How fethed would things be?

Imagine Xenomorphs made from Space Marines? Everything the standard Warrior (human host as seen in Alien, Aliens, Alien Vs Predator and Aliens Vs Predator Requiem), is, plus, additional Space Marine characteristics like fast-regeneration, Acid Spit, super senses, super strength, hardened carapace...

Imagine ones made from Orks? Absolute brutes with the ability to reproduce through spores?

Eldar, with high imtelligence, speed, and possibly psychihc/telepathic abilities?

Tau...should be ok...

What about Nids? Would we all be fethed?

40k Genestealers pretty much equal Aliens - that's where they came from.

They do pretty much the same thing as they also infect hosts and have "children" that benefit from the hosts abilities whist retaining the Genestealer attributes to produce Hybrids.

Nastier was Stormwatch/Aliens comics where Aliens infected Superpowered people so you can have firebreathing, flying, regenerating, super strong etc Aliens

Yeah, gene stealers essentially are xenomorphs with stupider looking faces (though hormagaunts are the real aliens equivalent in game).

A space marine alien wouldn't happen. For one thing, I don't care how strong face gutters are, if ripley+1 can pull one of her face a space marine can pull it off.
Not to mention the space marine could probably spit acid into it, have a taste of your own medicine!
Also, a single punch from an armoured space marine would probably make a xenoporph POP.

xenomorphs would be like a hormagaunt. One on one, a space marine will spank it.

Genestealers are the Warhammered version of xenomorphs. They are better than marines in combat and will often win the one on one.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
A space marine alien wouldn't happen. For one thing, I don't care how strong face gutters are, if ripley+1 can pull one of her face a space marine can pull it off.
Not to mention the space marine could probably spit acid into it, have a taste of your own medicine!
Also, a single punch from an armoured space marine would probably make a xenoporph POP.

Yes and no - a marine might slip into sus-an if lost most of his limbs say - that's when you implant them

They could match them in h-h but the acid would still eat through armour and flesh ......

but in the end as we all have said the Genestealers are the Aliens of 40k

Things would get even grimmer,

Though intresting to see them fight tyranoids, xeno vs xeno though aliens may not do so well,,,.

Xenomorphs would be curb stomped by just about any race in 40k

SM- would find facehuggers little more than a nuisance
Eldar- so fast they'd be able to catch the face huggers before they even got on them
IG- Commisars would execute and burn infected guardsman immeidetly
Chaos- Would prolly eat/molest/infect the face hugger back
Tau- Maybe but I figure they'd invent something to prevent huggers from getting on them pretty quick
Orks- Krump em or gleefully get infected for a better fight
Nids- lol like a housecat fighting a lion xenomorphs would be biosoup

I'd be more interested in the Predators versus various factions in 40k

Xenomorphs do most of their implanting after capturing prospective hosts.

Genestealers are thematically similar, but not the same. The key point the OP was making is their unique ability to take on aspects of their hosts, something that Genestealers do not do (and the Genestealer reproduction fluff seems to have been retconned).

Xenomorphs would be a nightmare threat worthy of Exterminatus on any populated world they are encountered upon. Even Space Marines could not deal with the billions of xenomorphs that would result from the infestation of a Hive City, especially if you consider them on par with Genestealers - the physical prowess of even the humble human-form Xenomorph is nothing to be taken lightly.

However, they wouldn't be a real threat. While they are extremely lethal and numerous, they don't have any spacefaring capabilities whatsoever.

 Deadshot wrote:
How fethed would things be?

Imagine Xenomorphs made from Space Marines? Everything the standard Warrior (human host as seen in Alien, Aliens, Alien Vs Predator and Aliens Vs Predator Requiem), is, plus, additional Space Marine characteristics like fast-regeneration, Acid Spit, super senses, super strength, hardened carapace...

Imagine ones made from Orks? Absolute brutes with the ability to reproduce through spores?

Eldar, with high imtelligence, speed, and possibly psychihc/telepathic abilities?

Tau...should be ok...

What about Nids? Would we all be fethed?

....

Nobody would be fethed. The Xenomorphs are absolutely pathetic compared to Tyranid Genestealers, Xenomorphs themselves would only be a danger to Guardsmen. Space Marines would be completely immune to tyranids flat- they couldn't penetrate their armor. Plus they also wouldn't gain the geneseed of a space marine, as genetically Astartes are still normal humans. Eldar would be able to wipe them out with little effort, Orks probably are incompatible due to being a fungus and a not normal biological life, Tau would handle them with drones, etc. Even Hive Worlds shouldn't be threatened too much, they already deal with Genestealers who are far more stealthy, intelligent, faster, and stronger than Xenomorphs.

It doesn't help xenomorphs either they have a mentally slowed means of reproduction that would see them die off in very short order.


Xenormophs would just end up as a footnote as one of those annoying things that grow at the bottom of Hive Worlds. It's the only way they'd survive. Xenomorphs are cool, but they're completely outclassed by everything in Warhammer 40k. It doesn't help that their utterly stupid means of reproduction limits their ability to breed at all. Seriously? Who's bright idea was to come up with facehuggers? The original concept of the Xenomorph drones just raping you constantly and turning you in a living egg-sack made a lot more sense and was far more brutal than the facehuggers.

In the AvP universe they found space to bread and grow. People found the nests full of eggs and basically panicked. In the 40k universe they would just flamer or plasma the lot and carry on.

Xenos are incredibly intelligent for an animal, breed extremely quickly and adapt to there hosts.

Pretorians are a match for a tyranid warrior in toughness and armour, so while very tough to a standard human, not a real threat to anything else.

Various Xeno forms exist but are all generally around the same power level (snake aliens, dog aliens etc.).

Astartes armour has been shown in fluff to be very resistant to acids (venom cannon) and I find it doubtful that xeno acid would even penetrate it.

Not very fethed at all. A Stormtrooper kill team armed with flamers would cream an infestation.

 Formosa wrote:
Xenos are incredibly intelligent for an animal, breed extremely quickly and adapt to there hosts.

Pretorians are a match for a tyranid warrior in toughness and armour, so while very tough to a standard human, not a real threat to anything else.

Various Xeno forms exist but are all generally around the same power level (snake aliens, dog aliens etc.).

Astartes armour has been shown in fluff to be very resistant to acids (venom cannon) and I find it doubtful that xeno acid would even penetrate it.

What? No they aren't, Praetorians aren't even close to the level of lethality of a Tyranid Warrior. Xenomorphs die to small arm's fire. Tyranids however can develop resistance to plasma and are nearly immune to small arms fire, and can continue to fight and survive despite being vivisected. Just. No. Xenormophs aren't even close to Tyranids, nor are they to anything else in W40K. They're too small, too weak, and too stupid to survive. And they only breed fast when exposed to a large number of hosts which dries up for every xenomorph birthed- xernomorphs have one of the dumbest reproduction methods in Science Fiction given that it's self defeating for their own survival.


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 TheCustomLime wrote:
Not very fethed at all. A Stormtrooper kill team armed with flamers would cream an infestation.

Not even that. The local PDF would mop up a Xenormophs infestation.

Do you know anything about the alien franchise?

Pretorians are immune to small arms fire, they are around the same size as a warrior and it takes heavy duty weapons or armour piecing ammunition to take one down.

Any xeno can become a queen as necessary and all xenos are asexual so no male and female reproduction is needed, a xeno simply starts to become a queen and lays eggs, when these nests were destroyed large scale they adapted and started to build smaller nests, when those became threatened they adapted, and laid eggs and moved on and layer eggs and before you knew it there were millions of aliens and earth was over run.

The queen I'd compare to a mid tier mc, not a carnifex ht level of power but str6 t6, when the San Francisco nest was found the ensuing battle to kill the queen destroyed down town (what everthat is my American friends).

Xeno can survive in total vacuum aswell, this should annoy that one lady who has an airlock fetish.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
A space marine alien wouldn't happen.

For the simple reason that a marine is made with cultured implants, not born. All the things he has are added to him during creation. The resulting alien might also die on "birth" as the marine's ribcage is reinforced and covered with the black carapace too. Hitting your soft head into a brick wall isn't good for you. :-)

I'm seeing alot of bad law here lol

Ok the alien basically takes part of the hosts dna and adapts itself to best kill that life form.

When the chesrburster emerges it follow the path of least resistance, so if unable to emerge from the chest it will come from another part of the body such as the head or stomach.

Hypothetically if an alien was somehow able to impregnate a space marine it would take genetic data from its host, the gene seed houses alot of genetic data and as such would be subject to assimilation, space marines organs etc would not as they are. Implanted after the geneseed, so a xeno would not be able to assimilate these organs unless they are part of the geneseeds genetic make up, so an alien would have the enhanced strength characteristic of a space marine and it's other genetic enhancements, such as the enhanced ribcage, intelligence (possible) but would not be rocking a black carapace. Now if the other organs implanted have genetic markers (and biology tells us they will) that are used to create them, then it is possible that the alien could also take these characteristics on, albeit in a limited way due to its own biology.
All of this relies on the extremely unlikely situation that a marine could be face hugged or implanted with the eggs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and just noticed these are avp xenos, so they have hyper accelerated growth and breeding, dem preds should not be messing with this stuff

 Formosa wrote:
Do you know anything about the alien franchise?

Pretorians are immune to small arms fire, they are around the same size as a warrior and it takes heavy duty weapons or armour piecing ammunition to take one down.

Any xeno can become a queen as necessary and all xenos are asexual so no male and female reproduction is needed, a xeno simply starts to become a queen and lays eggs, when these nests were destroyed large scale they adapted and started to build smaller nests, when those became threatened they adapted, and laid eggs and moved on and layer eggs and before you knew it there were millions of aliens and earth was over run.

The queen I'd compare to a mid tier mc, not a carnifex ht level of power but str6 t6, when the San Francisco nest was found the ensuing battle to kill the queen destroyed down town (what everthat is my American friends).

Xeno can survive in total vacuum aswell, this should annoy that one lady who has an airlock fetish.

Yeah, just that you slaughter Praetorians in all the AVP games with the only weapons available being pulse rifles. Lasguns would handle Xenomorphs perfect fine, not to mention completely remove the potential lethality of xenomorph blood.

Are you serial??????????

Games are not a good source of fluff especially fps ones haha, wow.

I'm now useing your logic, space marines are toast against a single tau fire warrior because of the firewarrior game I killed them with a lasgun!!

Ok pointless jibes aside I am quite surprised as what you stated, the aliens Canon is much richer than the terrible video games they have produced in recent years, now I am in no way stating that they would be anything in the 40k universe, I'm just clearing up the large amount of fluff errors that have been thrown around about them so far.

Don't forget btw that smart guns are essentially lower callibre bolt guns (explosive ammunition specifically), think a heavy stubber with auto lock and explosive rounds, this is the equivalent of the gpmg carried by colonial marines.

Most of the gene-therapy the geneseed performs is to adapt the Marine's body to accept the other implants, which generally work on a hormonal basis rather than a genetic one.

 Formosa wrote:
Are you serial??????????

Games are not a good source of fluff especially fps ones haha, wow.

I'm now useing your logic, space marines are toast against a single tau fire warrior because of the firewarrior game I killed them with a lasgun!!

Ok pointless jibes aside I am quite surprised as what you stated, the aliens Canon is much richer than the terrible video games they have produced in recent years, now I am in no way stating that they would be anything in the 40k universe, I'm just clearing up the large amount of fluff errors that have been thrown around about them so far.

Don't forget btw that smart guns are essentially lower callibre bolt guns (explosive ammunition specifically), think a heavy stubber with auto lock and explosive rounds, this is the equivalent of the gpmg carried by colonial marines.

The Colonial Marines do quite well against Xenomorphs in Aliens with small arms, the reason they lose so badly is poor tactical insertion and overwhelming numbers. The turrets are also light machine guns, and scythe them down by the scores. The standard hardware of just about anyone in the 40K franchise (which absolutely loves Big Guns... even the holdout pistols are .40 cal) packs enough heat to splatter a Xenomorph. Boltguns are one-shot, one-kill weapons against the Xenomorph.

Pretorians, not standard warriors, warriors are squishy and pop acid everywhere as a defensive measure to defend the hive (I believe some real ants do this too), pretorians are massive and armoured, they defend the queen. Like a standard tyranid warrior they "can" be taken down with enough small arms bee stings, but it's just not effective hence why I said immune, it takes ap ammo, when confronted with several pretorians in royal hive they had to resort to dedicated anti armour and anti material weapons to take them down, this is basically the equivalent to auto cannons and krak missiles, hence the almost direct comparison to tyranid warriors, infact it wouldn't surprise me if that is where warriors as a concept came from, doubt it, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Yep them cool auto turrets are the same as the smart gun, just fully automated, pretty cool, but still just a heavy stubber by 40k standards.

 Formosa wrote:
Are you serial??????????

Games are not a good source of fluff especially fps ones haha, wow.

I'm now useing your logic, space marines are toast against a single tau fire warrior because of the firewarrior game I killed them with a lasgun!!

Ok pointless jibes aside I am quite surprised as what you stated, the aliens Canon is much richer than the terrible video games they have produced in recent years, now I am in no way stating that they would be anything in the 40k universe, I'm just clearing up the large amount of fluff errors that have been thrown around about them so far.

Don't forget btw that smart guns are essentially lower callibre bolt guns (explosive ammunition specifically), think a heavy stubber with auto lock and explosive rounds, this is the equivalent of the gpmg carried by colonial marines.

The Tau firewarrior had access to bolters. However, while gameplay is non-canon, the only weapons the Rookie had access to were bullets, a flamethrower, and the grenade launcher of the pulse rifle. Meaning that the Praetorian was either killed by small-arms fire or was killed by the grenade launcher at the highest. Also, no, the ammunition utilized by the smart gun is nothing like a bolter. Unless we're also going to start calling 5.56 a smoothbore tank cannon as it works on the same principal of a 120mm solid slug, I'd advise not to compare the smartgun's ammunition to bolters.

And Bolt Guns would actually be multi-kill guns. Firstly IIRC Xenomorphs can be harmed by their own acid, and the shockwave of bolters can rupture the organs in a close radius. So Xenomorphs near the unlucky sod who got popped right by them would either suffer from ruptured organs or a cracked exoskeleton.

And Xenomorphs would gain little advancement in W40K besides jumping abhumans. Eldar are bullet-timers and would be nigh impossible to impregnate (not to mention likely impossible if they're wearing a helmet), Orks are fungal life, Astartes are genetically a normal human, not to mention they'd probably survive being impgregnated and a xenomorph chest-buster couldn't even get out given the fused ribcage, and Tyranids are liable to simply eat the facehugger in the first place, acid be damned. You'd just see Tau, Human, and Abhuman xenomorphs.

I clarified it all for you wyzilla, I will address each point you made again for you.

The video games are in no way shape or form cannon, they are fir entertainment purposes only and a single pretorian could easily take out a whole platoon of colonial marines while taking heavy fire, this is shown in earth hive and royal hive as well as other novels.

The pulse rifle fires 10 mm caseless, and is directly comparable to auto rifles, which have the exact same stat line as a las gun.

The m56 smart gun fire 10mm armour piecing explosive rounds, this is directly comparable to a bolt round, lower caliber and lower end technologically, but comparable, so as stated its a heavy stubber that fires explosive rounds, the bolt gun is a personal weapon that fires explosive rounds, the smart gun also can be loaded with radioactive or acidic rounds.

Xenos are extremely fast and I agree.they would not match eldar etc. For speed, untill they assimilate eldar Dna and adapt biologically to the same if not faster speeds.

Orks are fungal based, this is irrelevant as they would still act as incubators for the xeno larvae, and Orks as a biological creature(although from a different tree of life) still have dna, with the information written directly into there Dna I cannot imagine the result of the creature it would produce.

As stated before the "chestburster" does not have tk come from the chest, it is a living organism and adapts like any other, they have been shown to come from the mouth, skull, stomach, and most horrible or all...the arse.

Just to be clear, I am NOT saying xenos are a massive threat to any 40k race, but to a hive world, craft world etc. If they are not exterminated quickly they will reach a critical mass and damage the population heavily.

Pleas understand that I'm not trying to be rude here but you very clearly have little experience with the greater aliens, avp and possibly predator expanded universe, I'm greatly enjoying this conversation however as it allows me to delve back into one of my favourite franchises.

What makes the games more or less canon than the novels?

The smartgun is not really comparable to a bolter. It's a fraction of the caliber, it doesn't have an armour-piercing tip, and it doesn't have onboard propulsion or intelligent fusing.

All an Astartes-Stealer would gain is the ability to accept Astartes implants. :p

The Tyranids, on the other hand, also gain the knowledge of how to manufacture said implants. Tyrand Gaurd are Astartes-'nids, after all - they don't like like Astartes, because the 'nids have to reverse engineer the augmentations and translate them into something usable.

The games suffer from the one man army problem of all fps games, also none have ever been referenced in the Canon like Dow has for example, none of the history or characters are part of the Canon either, for example the dow Games were not Canon untill gw made them Canon by introducing the events into the main steam 40k timeline, this has never happened with the games with exception to the already established technology.

Furyou, the smart gun does have an armour piecing tip as stated twice, it also fire explosive rounds as stated twice, also as stated it is lower calibre and not at technologically advanced, it is exactly the same as a heavy stubber which is also str4, due to the explosive rounds and armour piercing capabilities, high rate of fire and tracking capabilities it is comparable to a bolter

Heavy stubber str4 ap6 heavy 3
Bolter str4 ap5 rapid fire
Smart gun str4 ap6 assault 3
That is how they would match up.

Xenomrophs are not hormagaunts. Xenomorphs rip through lift doors and armoured panels, that could be S4 rending not S3.

Genestealers were always Xenomorph tropes anyway, but with psychic abilities to ensalve humans into a genestealer cult. They need that edge, and a collective sapient hive mind equal or exceeding human IQ in order to surive in the 41st millenium.

The zenomoprph probably has genestealer stats, but lacks the same level of smarts, lacks the same numbers dont have a fleet. They do have acid which makes the first few to to take one out with a chainsword to regret it, but afterwards the Ikperium would quickl;y learn.

I give the xenomorphs a week before thet get wiped out, though the fight will be bloody and several guardsmen will die.

Just so you guys stop making the "smart gun isn't comparable to a boltgun" it really really is

The M56 Smartgun is chambered for the M250 10×28mm High Explosive Armor Piercing caseless round, a 230 grain projectile encased in a rectangular block of Nitramine 50.[5] This round offers greater power than the M309 used by the M41A Pulse Rifle, and also offers a selectable fuse setting — a switch on the Smartgun's grip is used to switch between ammunition fusing modes, and the setting is applied to each round electronically as it is loaded into the chamber.[5] The Super setting is optimized for use against soft targets, detonating on impact, while the Delay setting will allow the round to penetrate armor before exploding

 Formosa wrote:
I clarified it all for you wyzilla, I will address each point you made again for you.

The video games are in no way shape or form cannon, they are fir entertainment purposes only and a single pretorian could easily take out a whole platoon of colonial marines while taking heavy fire, this is shown in earth hive and royal hive as well as other novels.

Prove it with a statement from FOX. They lisened and published the games. There is no reason to think they are not canon When The Games Are The Reason Why AVP Exists In The First Place. I suppose the movies are no longer canon for star wars either?

The pulse rifle fires 10 mm caseless, and is directly comparable to auto rifles, which have the exact same stat line as a las gun.

The tabletop rules have absolutely nothing to do with the fluff.

The m56 smart gun fire 10mm armour piecing explosive rounds, this is directly comparable to a bolt round, lower caliber and lower end technologically, but comparable, so as stated its a heavy stubber that fires explosive rounds, the bolt gun is a personal weapon that fires explosive rounds, the smart gun also can be loaded with radioactive or acidic rounds.

No it isn't, unless you're thick enough to start comparing small arms fire to solid slugs fired from artillery cannons or tanks "because they're directly comparable."

Xenos are extremely fast and I agree.they would not match eldar etc. For speed, untill they assimilate eldar Dna and adapt biologically to the same if not faster speeds.

There's no reason to believe they would assimilate Eldar speed considering their speed results from a lithe body and IIRC, superior control over their nervous system (which might not even be similar to humans).

Orks are fungal based, this is irrelevant as they would still act as incubators for the xeno larvae, and Orks as a biological creature(although from a different tree of life) still have dna, with the information written directly into there Dna I cannot imagine the result of the creature it would produce.

Are you so ignorant of biology to think that fungal based life would be at all similar to what xenomorphs normally use as hosts (carbon based life), ignoring that we've never actually even seen Xenormophs impregnate a fungus to my knowledge, meaning that we have absolutely no idea if the two would be compatible. Hell we don't even know how an Ork nervous system works, what's the base material for blood, or if their blood even functions like normal blood. Orks are so entirely alien from anything Xenomorphs have infected prior we may not even have reason to believe they are!

As stated before the "chestburster" does not have tk come from the chest, it is a living organism and adapts like any other, they have been shown to come from the mouth, skull, stomach, and most horrible or all...the arse.

Just to be clear, I am NOT saying xenos are a massive threat to any 40k race, but to a hive world, craft world etc. If they are not exterminated quickly they will reach a critical mass and damage the population heavily.

Except they won't, as given the method of reproduction Xenomorphs use, they'll kill themselves if they expand too much. They'll wipe themselves out if they manage somehow to actually be a threat to a Hive World.

Pleas understand that I'm not trying to be rude here but you very clearly have little experience with the greater aliens, avp and possibly predator expanded universe, I'm greatly enjoying this conversation however as it allows me to delve back into one of my favourite franchises.

Little Experience?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh gak, wait, you're serious.

I own-

ALIEN, ALIENS, Predator, Predator 2, AVP 1, and AVP 2. I also own AVP 1999, AVP 2010, and pdf's of some of the old comics. I am VERY well informed of the three franchises, and I know when you're cherry picking evidence.

Let's not devolve into petty arguements. This is an interesting topic and one I want to keep going.

Personally speaking, my own experience comes from Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Ressurection, AVP1 and Requiem, Predator 1 and 2, Predators, AVP 2010 video game and AVP Extinction for the PS2 which gave remarkably in-depth analysis of each creature and unit.

 Deadshot wrote:
Let's not devolve into petty arguements. This is an interesting topic and one I want to keep going.

Personally speaking, my own experience comes from Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Ressurection, AVP1 and Requiem, Predator 1 and 2, Predators, AVP 2010 video game and AVP Extinction for the PS2 which gave remarkably in-depth analysis of each creature and unit.

The problem is that the best Xenomorph still caps out at a Genestealer level with the Tyranids- as the Tyranids have one major advantage over everyone in melee. bs magic monomolecular claws that can sever molecular bonds. They Xenomorphs (if dropped in W40K) would just function like a discount, generic brand version of the Tyranids.

I'm not cherry picking anything but again I will address each point you have made.

Fox: show me in any book, movie, comic where any of the events of the video games are even referenced.

Tabletop rule: this one surprised me in all honesty, the fluff underpins all of the rules, otherwise how is a gauss gun and a plasma cannon different. Showing the auto rifle and las gun are identical is just one example, pulse rifles are basically auto rifles, I have seen many people on this forum even compare modern rifles to auto rifles as a comparison to the power of a las gun, I agree the las is slightly more powerful but not by much as shown by ffg dark heresy and inquisitor, these are the only stats that exist foe a fictional weapon, therefore they are correct.

Are you thick comment: comparable doesn't mean literally the same, it's means there effects can be compared, a high calibre explosive round that detonated inside the target (as shown bothdo this) with kill blow a person apart, yes as I admitted the boltgun round is a higher calibre, both are armour piecing explosive rounds, we also know that the heavy stubber is the equivalent to a modern day lsw, gpmg and all the way up to a vehicle mounted 50 cal, gw rules and fluff support this, stats in both dark heresy and 40k show it to be the same power to the bolter but lower penetration, the smart gun fits into this fluff/rules group of weapons.

Ignorant of biology: again surprised at this one, the xeno is a lifeform, and like all life it needs certain things to grow, the books and films have given us a basic understanding of the creature, but the rest we have to work out ourselves, firstly it needs an incubator to grow inside, we know Orks have the same basic internal structure as humans, skeleton, stomach, internal organs etc., they are fundamentally different lifeforms but have similar internal make up, also as shown by various movies, books and comics the xeno do not need sentient bipedal human life to reproduce, we have examples of snake aliens, dogs etc. As such we can work out that if the host has a working internal system for the parasite to absorb nutrients from then it can grow, the Orks possess a fully working internal system analogous with humans, thus as shown the alien can deposit the egg and it would grow, a question in return, why would it not?

You odd picture: laugh, all those things happened in the book's.

Wipe themselves out: who will kill themselves? The hosts won', they are taken in ones and twos, bound, impregnated and then die, when the hive is strong enough they begin to take more, this is happening in dark places in the hive or ships, people in the imperium wouldn't even care or notice these people vanish, how do you think stealers operate as this is exactly the same m.o xenos use, just different breeding styles.

Also aliens don't care if everyone is wiped out, they are like a cancer or bio weapon, look at lv426, you as a self confessed fan should know this???

Your collection while relatively extensive in your eyes is actually Quite limited, do you own earth hive? Nightmare asylum? Royal war? Or any of the other books and novels? One in particular I suggest if you don't have it is avp: war it's excellent.


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@deadshot: don't worry I doubt it will, I'm not sure what warranted the insults to be honest, I thought I was being polite?

Lasguns are much more powerful than modern day assault rifles or pulse rifles. These things can blow off limbs and cause very serious wounds. As in, wounds so serious that medics don't bother treating people who have taken a direct hit from one.

So, a squad of Imperial Guardsman would cream a squad of Colonial Marines because they have armor that's immune to stubbers (Which Pulse Rifles are) and have superior weapons. Against Xenomorphs... yeah, they'll take losses but the Xenomorphs will be wiped out. Don't forget that the Imperial Guard also has weapons that are fully capable of taking down the bigger gribblies like Plasma Guns and Melta.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing Xenomorphs doing anything. Maybe they'll be a nuisance for the PDF to cull every now and again but they are the victims of being from a fictional universe that has less powerful... everything than 40k does. It's like asking whether the Covenant would stand up to the Imperium or not. Within their own Universe they are a threat but because their designated opponents are equipped like they were in the Cold War they suffer in terms of power level when compared to the armies of 40k.

 Formosa wrote:
I'm not cherry picking anything but again I will address each point you have made.

Fox: show me in any book, movie, comic where any of the events of the video games are even referenced.

That's not how canon works. The games are published material. We have no reason to believe they're non canon besides your driveling on the subject. YOU have to provide evidence they are not canon- an absense of such a statement is not evidence against it, as the logical conclusion is always in the absense of a stated policy, ALL material published is canon.

Tabletop rule: this one surprised me in all honesty, the fluff underpins all of the rules, otherwise how is a gauss gun and a plasma cannon different. Showing the auto rifle and las gun are identical is just one example, pulse rifles are basically auto rifles, I have seen many people on this forum even compare modern rifles to auto rifles as a comparison to the power of a las gun, I agree the las is slightly more powerful but not by much as shown by ffg dark heresy and inquisitor, these are the only stats that exist foe a fictional weapon, therefore they are correct.

Tabletop rules mean feth all unless you actually plan to have some xenomorph miniatures fight your guardsmen. Otherwise we use the fluff, as the fluff is W40K, it is the view into the universe as if the fiction was a real universe. And if you actually have read the fluff, you'd know the destruction capabilities, ROF, and nature of plasma guns and necron gauss guns are completely different- plasma guns are effectively miniature solar flares launched in the enemy's face as giant globs of plasma that explodes upon contact like a bubble, vaporizing/cremating everything it hits. Gauss Guns strip atomic bonds, the green lightning you see is actually the gun stripping matter from the target and sucking it back into the gun. Gauss Guns don't give a gak about your armor, they strip atoms. They vaporize parts of a house just as they'll suck up chunks of a Chimera.

Are you thick comment: comparable doesn't mean literally the same, it's means there effects can be compared, a high calibre explosive round that detonated inside the target (as shown bothdo this) with kill blow a person apart, yes as I admitted the boltgun round is a higher calibre, both are armour piecing explosive rounds, we also know that the heavy stubber is the equivalent to a modern day lsw, gpmg and all the way up to a vehicle mounted 50 cal, gw rules and fluff support this, stats in both dark heresy and 40k show it to be the same power to the bolter but lower penetration, the smart gun fits into this fluff/rules group of weapons.

Except there's point to the comment. It just sounds like you're trying to lay down the tracks to making a future argument that pulse rifles are comparable to bolters in the damage department. Also, all bolts are not equal, pulse rifles are only similar to the standard ammunition. Bolters are like a gyroround gun and a 40mm grenade launcher/shotgun had a baby. It's a delivery system, not just an explosive. Bolts are loaded with acid, shrapnel, more potent explosions, meltas, psychic materials, etc. It's not just an explosive, it's just a delivery system with a very varied and unique array of ammunition possibilities. I apologize for harshness, but your statement sounded to those previously where they were laying the groundwork for absurd equivalency arguments.

Ignorant of biology: again surprised at this one, the xeno is a lifeform, and like all life it needs certain things to grow, the books and films have given us a basic understanding of the creature, but the rest we have to work out ourselves, firstly it needs an incubator to grow inside, we know Orks have the same basic internal structure as humans, skeleton, stomach, internal organs etc., they are fundamentally different lifeforms but have similar internal make up, also as shown by various movies, books and comics the xeno do not need sentient bipedal human life to reproduce, we have examples of snake aliens, dogs etc. As such we can work out that if the host has a working internal system for the parasite to absorb nutrients from then it can grow, the Orks possess a fully working internal system analogous with humans, thus as shown the alien can deposit the egg and it would grow, a question in return, why would it not?

Except we don't know how the organs of an Ork fucntion. We don't know what the body temperature of an ork is, given that it's a fungus it may not need be as warm as a human, which could hinder the growth of an embryo with a high metabolism.

You odd picture: laugh, all those things happened in the book's.

Wipe themselves out: who will kill themselves? The hosts won', they are taken in ones and twos, bound, impregnated and then die, when the hive is strong enough they begin to take more, this is happening in dark places in the hive or ships, people in the imperium wouldn't even care or notice these people vanish, how do you think stealers operate as this is exactly the same m.o xenos use, just different breeding styles.

Also aliens don't care if everyone is wiped out, they are like a cancer or bio weapon, look at lv426, you as a self confessed fan should know this???

Your collection while relatively extensive in your eyes is actually Quite limited, do you own earth hive? Nightmare asylum? Royal war? Or any of the other books and novels? One in particular I suggest if you don't have it is avp: war it's excellent.

 Formosa wrote:
Just so you guys stop making the "smart gun isn't comparable to a boltgun" it really really is

The M56 Smartgun is chambered for the M250 10×28mm High Explosive Armor Piercing caseless round, a 230 grain projectile encased in a rectangular block of Nitramine 50.[5] This round offers greater power than the M309 used by the M41A Pulse Rifle, and also offers a selectable fuse setting — a switch on the Smartgun's grip is used to switch between ammunition fusing modes, and the setting is applied to each round electronically as it is loaded into the chamber.[5] The Super setting is optimized for use against soft targets, detonating on impact, while the Delay setting will allow the round to penetrate armor before exploding

The standard bolter is a .75cal (19.5mm) diamantine-tipped mass-reactive explosive round fired by a two-stage chemical-explosive/gyrojet propulsion system. The weapon that fires it is linked to a tactical targeting system in the Space Marine's helmet, permitting accurate fire over significant distances.

So not only is the bolt-round almost twice as big as the smartgun, its round is intelligently explosive... and extremely armor-piercing. It also has the benefits of the Space Marine's targeters, which has been presented in some sources as permitting in-flight course correction to a degree. Sure, it won't make 90 degree turns, but a 5 degree course correction to hit center-mass is plausible. Once the round is inside the target, the mass-reactive explosive goes off. This means that the bolt-round is also much like a grenade, with a massive chunk of armor-piercing space-metal exploding inside the target. As we've been told by a number of books, this will literally cause a person to disappear into a shower of meaty chunks. Xenomorphs are not, internally, very tough. They have an insectoid exoskeleton, but their torsos appear to have no internal support structure. When you have an explosive inside there all of a sudden, this is very bad for you, because most of your internal organs are going to go shooting out of that hole that the explosive made coming into your chest cavity. As we've seen in the Alien franchise, their organic acids are powerful, but not exceptionally fast. The acid will not have time to dissolve the bolt round before it explodes, as this happens micro-seconds after penetration.

Additionally, bolters can pack things like mutagenic acids (extremely effective against Tyranids), anti-psychic munitions, melta charges, and other specialty payloads for specific target-types.

The heavy bolter also features all of these things, but is a 1.00cal (25.8mm) round, and is shot from a weapon with a much higher rate of fire and superior staying power compared to a regular bolter, being fed from a backpack ammunition supply that can hold up to 1000 rounds (varies by source), as opposed to the standard 24-round boltgun magazine.

Nah, I think Xenomorphs would definitely have Fleet and possibly Leaping as well. Those things ]fast.

Fast but squishy. If I was going to stat up Xenomorphs... probably something like,

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

 Wyzilla wrote:


Are you so ignorant of biology to think that fungal based life would be at all similar to what xenomorphs normally use as hosts (carbon based life)

Spoiler:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh gak, wait, you're serious.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
J/K

 Furyou Miko wrote:

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

I like this stat line, especially the additional tail attack, the initiative 1 is good as it shows that usually there is some grappling done before the tail comes into play. There are also various types of Xenomorphs to give some additional buffs to WS, S and T for things like the Warrior, Praetorian and the Juggernaught...and of course the Queen

All in all, I would say that the Xenomorphs could be added into the fluff as a splinter fleet of the main Tyrannid fleets, or as a genetically engineered weapon that used a few captured tyrannid gribblies as a baseline. Using the above stat line as the baseline Drone we could have:
Warrior:
WS 5 BS 0 S 5 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Praetorians:
WS 5 BS 0 S 5 T 4 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Juggernaughts:
WS 5 BS 0 S 5 T 4 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 4+

Queen:
WS 5 BS 0 S 6 T 5 W 3 I 5 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 4+

There are a lot of other types of Xenomorphs that could be built into an army like Queen Mothers, Predaliens, Dog Bursters, etc...so yeah, I could see them as a minor faction for hardcore Aliens fans in 40k. But then that would open the door for Yautja (Predators) and all sorts of rampant fan boy-ism, and we certainly can't have that, can we?

-STS

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Lasguns are much more powerful than modern day assault rifles or pulse rifles. These things can blow off limbs and cause very serious wounds. As in, wounds so serious that medics don't bother treating people who have taken a direct hit from one.

So, a squad of Imperial Guardsman would cream a squad of Colonial Marines because they have armor that's immune to stubbers (Which Pulse Rifles are) and have superior weapons. Against Xenomorphs... yeah, they'll take losses but the Xenomorphs will be wiped out. Don't forget that the Imperial Guard also has weapons that are fully capable of taking down the bigger gribblies like Plasma Guns and Melta.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing Xenomorphs doing anything. Maybe they'll be a nuisance for the PDF to cull every now and again but they are the victims of being from a fictional universe that has less powerful... everything than 40k does. It's like asking whether the Covenant would stand up to the Imperium or not. Within their own Universe they are a threat but because their designated opponents are equipped like they were in the Cold War they suffer in terms of power level when compared to the armies of 40k.

This is probably the best assessment.

Xenos would be annoying, but not super dangerous. They'd probably be ever-present on a few planets and require a good muster of the PDF every now and then. They'd also probably be problematic on quite a few space-ships, causing some transport ships to go dark / have to put up a good fight in their own holds as they cross through space to reach their destinations.

At the end of the day though, they're just not broken enough to be a true threat in 40k. It's unlikely they'd be exterminated from the universe entirely, but they'd never be a true power-player.

EDIT: Unless they, somehow, managed to catch a very small amount of Tyranids totally broken off from their hive-fleet. Then it's possible that a sufficiently strong Xenos hive could breed from the nids to become.. Well, super xenos. Not quite Tyranid strength, but way more threatening than the basic alien breeds. That could cause a chain reaction which could eventually see them becoming a global player, but it'd be pretty unlikely and take ages.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, I think Xenomorphs would definitely have Fleet and possibly Leaping as well. Those things fast.

Fast but squishy. If I was going to stat up Xenomorphs... probably something like,

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

Squishy mean two wounds?
I would make that one. Actually, I would just copy-paste the genestealer rules, with maybe a few tweaks like acid blood and only T3 and ignore difficult terrain (because those things can run on the ceiling!). But then again, I think genestealers should ignore difficult terrain too.


As for how well Aliens would fare in 40k, this is entirely dependent on the author point of view. They could decide that Aliens outrun eldars, outnumber orks and tear through power armor, and they could also decide even PDF are able to deal with them efficiently.

Wyz: that's exactly how a Canon exists, firstly you take the original material published by the studio as the main canon, then any books they publish or tv series they make.

If we go by your logic then there are predators in the original alien franchise, cos comic books and stuff say so, no, there are 3 distinct and separate universes, aliens, predator and lastly aliens vs predator, all the avp games fit into the avp universe and are not canon in any other.

So on one hand you claim the rules and fluff have nothing to with each other, then on the other you use fluff to justify the difference in tabletop rules for a plasma gun and Gauss gun...hmm, like it or lump it the smart gun fluff wise is a heavy stubber, tt wise it has comparable stats to a bolter, and if anyone had actually bothered to read the fluff for the smart gun I posted up they'd actually agree I think.

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

We do know the internal makeup of an ork?? It's in xenology and lots of other places, with a few notable exceptions it is almost exactly the same as a human, body temperature is a fair point but not for a creature that survives in a vacuum, and Orks are not fungus as so many people seem to think, they are a hybrid of fungus and normal animals as we'd see it, if I'm honest I think an alien that came from an ork would be an amorphous blob as it just couldn't assimilate the sheer amount of genetic data an ork possesses, or the alien would be a ork assimilated alien, that's just personal opinion though of course.
"

I ran a scenario with three groups of players at our club:

Imperial Inquisiton team investigating / exterminating a hive
Alien Hive defenders
Predators drawn to the conflict

used the very nice pre painted Aliens and Pred models from hero clix - everyone had a blast and the game ended with the Queen fighting the Eldar Predator -

 Mr Morden wrote:
I ran a scenario with three groups of players at our club:

Imperial Inquisiton team investigating / exterminating a hive
Alien Hive defenders
Predators drawn to the conflict

used the very nice pre painted Aliens and Pred models from hero clix - everyone had a blast and the game ended with the Queen fighting the Eldar Predator -

Very interesting...what stat lines did you use for the Aliens and Preds? I would be interested...

-STS

I'll see If I can find it

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

No, it really isn't. A heavy stubber isn't even the same caliber as a boltgun, and lacks all of the techno-wizardy that makes the boltgun the poster-child ranged weapon of the setting.

 Psienesis wrote:

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

No, it really isn't. A heavy stubber isn't even the same caliber as a boltgun, and lacks all of the techno-wizardy that makes the boltgun the poster-child ranged weapon of the setting.

You still seem to misunderstand his arguement.

He argues that a Smart Gun is similar to a Heavy Stubber (Str 4, AP-)
A heavy stubber (Str 4) is comparable in power levels to a Bolter (Str 4).
Therefore, a Smart Gun is similar to a Bolter.

Its a flawed arguement but that's the basis of it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Squishy mean two wounds?
I would make that one. Actually, I would just copy-paste the genestealer rules, with maybe a few tweaks like acid blood and only T3 and ignore difficult terrain (because those things can run on the ceiling!). But then again, I think genestealers should ignore difficult terrain too.


As for how well Aliens would fare in 40k, this is entirely dependent on the author point of view. They could decide that Aliens outrun eldars, outnumber orks and tear through power armor, and they could also decide even PDF are able to deal with them efficiently.

Actually, on further consideration, I'd probably make them T2. Bullets go through Xenomorphs pretty easily, but they do take a few rounds to put down, while that would allow the bolter to Instant Death the damn things as is appropriate for its fluff.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

No, it really isn't. A heavy stubber isn't even the same caliber as a boltgun, and lacks all of the techno-wizardy that makes the boltgun the poster-child ranged weapon of the setting.

You still seem to misunderstand his arguement.

He argues that a Smart Gun is similar to a Heavy Stubber (Str 4, AP-)
A heavy stubber (Str 4) is comparable in power levels to a Bolter (Str 4).
Therefore, a Smart Gun is similar to a Bolter.

Its a flawed arguement but that's the basis of it.

No, I understand that. The basis of the problem is the extremely-limited mechanics of the tabletop, rather than the much-wider range of possibilities provided by the fluff the tabletop game is based on. This is one of the many, many reasons why a d6 system is terrible.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, on further consideration, I'd probably make them T2. Bullets go through Xenomorphs pretty easily, but they do take a few rounds to put down, while that would allow the bolter to Instant Death the damn things as is appropriate for its fluff.

Wait, two wounds with T2? That does not make any sense. T3 W1 is perfect there.
(Bullets go through humans quite easily too. And the weapon they use in the movie looks pretty violent!)

Xenomorphs can keep on going without legs, they just haul themselves forwards and keep trying to kill you. I guess Feel No Pain would probably be an adequate alternative.

They are still pretty squishy. And without legs, they are way slower .

 Formosa wrote:
Wyz: that's exactly how a Canon exists, firstly you take the original material published by the studio as the main canon, then any books they publish or tv series they make.
If we go by your logic then there are predators in the original alien franchise, cos comic books and stuff say so, no, there are 3 distinct and separate universes, aliens, predator and lastly aliens vs predator, all the avp games fit into the avp universe and are not canon in any other.

No. Unless they've made a statement the games are non canon, we have no reason to believe they aren't. You have to back up your claim with evidence of Fox stating they're non canon. Your poor attempt at a failed equivilancy argument is utter nonsense because ALIEN(S), and Predator are seperate franchises on their own, with Aliens versus Predator being its own unique franchise. Now prove the games aren't canon with a direct statement or drop the claim.

So on one hand you claim the rules and fluff have nothing to with each other, then on the other you use fluff to justify the difference in tabletop rules for a plasma gun and Gauss gun...hmm, like it or lump it the smart gun fluff wise is a heavy stubber, tt wise it has comparable stats to a bolter, and if anyone had actually bothered to read the fluff for the smart gun I posted up they'd actually agree I think.

Are you fething thick? I never stated anything at all about the table top.on the nature of plasma guns and gauss guns, I was speaking purely about the lore.

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

Except you were laying the groundwork for such an argument and were arguing they were similar despite it not only being false (as bolters are not purely explosive, it's a mere ammo type), but also it being a pointless observation to even bother making.

We do know the internal makeup of an ork?? It's in xenology and lots of other places, with a few notable exceptions it is almost exactly the same as a human, body temperature is a fair point but not for a creature that survives in a vacuum, and Orks are not fungus as so many people seem to think, they are a hybrid of fungus and normal animals as we'd see it, if I'm honest I think an alien that came from an ork would be an amorphous blob as it just couldn't assimilate the sheer amount of genetic data an ork possesses, or the alien would be a ork assimilated alien, that's just personal opinion though of course.
"

No, we don't. What we do know however is that Orks are fungal based life, so we don't have any reason at all to assume they operate like a normal vertebrate. Especially since you can stitch the head of a decapitated Ork back on to heal the Ork Boyz. All we know is that they bleed, they have a skeleton (although not of its composition, just that they have one), and they're highly evolved fungi. That's it. We don't know if Xenomorphs can infect them, it's completely in the dark.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Prove it with a statement from FOX. They lisened and published the games. There is no reason to think they are not canon When The Games Are The Reason Why AVP Exists In The First Place. I suppose the movies are no longer canon for star wars either?

Getting a huge attitude when you are completely wrong is kind of entertaining.

1: AVP started as a comic
2: There have been a lot of AVP games since early/mid 90's with very different game play

Video games are built with game play over fluff, so unless there is a desire to make a tabletop game behave like a specific video game it would make sense to use the movies, comics, or books for inspiration because they have story power levels instead of game play power levels and 40k doesn't play like a video game where the player plays one person.

Indeed, AVP started out as a Dark Horse comic book series in the early 90s. Those comic books are why the AvP franchise exists. And they're really freaking good... far better than any AVP movie (or, for that matter, any Alien or Predator stand-alone movie) that has been released since then.

 snooggums wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Prove it with a statement from FOX. They lisened and published the games. There is no reason to think they are not canon When The Games Are The Reason Why AVP Exists In The First Place. I suppose the movies are no longer canon for star wars either?

Getting a huge attitude when you are completely wrong is kind of entertaining.

1: AVP started as a comic
2: There have been a lot of AVP games since early/mid 90's with very different game play

Video games are built with game play over fluff, so unless there is a desire to make a tabletop game behave like a specific video game it would make sense to use the movies, comics, or books for inspiration because they have story power levels instead of game play power levels and 40k doesn't play like a video game where the player plays one person.

Except there is no reason to believe the events of the videogame are non canon. While gameplay is non-canon, the events logically are. The only weapons the rookie had access to was a flamethrower, a DMR, the pulse rifle, the smartgun, and a 40mm grenade launcher. Even going for the absolute highest end with the grenade launcher, the Predalien would get shredded. It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles and would easily one-shot any Xenomorph. The only weapon a Predalien might survive in W40K that has widespread use is the Imperial Guard autopistol.

But there simply is no ability for xexnomorphs to be a threat to any faction in W40K given their shear pathetic nature compared to every other faction. Tyranids are everything Xenomorphs are, but better in every single possible way, be it intelligence, durability, speed, or strength. The OP should have thought the idea out more before dropping the Xeno's into the universe. Even the THING would be more successful than xenomorphs.

 Wyzilla wrote:
It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles

No. You think that they are more powerful. But you have no way to actually compare them because they do not exist. Hence any author that get official license to do some Alien 40k crossover can throw any kind of Applied Phlebotinum mumbo-jumbo to justify pulse rifle being more powerful than even bolters.
Do not underestimate the power of Applied Phlebotinum and other handy plot devices.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except there is no reason to believe the events of the videogame are non canon. While gameplay is non-canon, the events logically are. The only weapons the rookie had access to was a flamethrower, a DMR, the pulse rifle, the smartgun, and a 40mm grenade launcher. Even going for the absolute highest end with the grenade launcher, the Predalien would get shredded. It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles and would easily one-shot any Xenomorph. The only weapon a Predalien might survive in W40K that has widespread use is the Imperial Guard autopistol.

But there simply is no ability for xexnomorphs to be a threat to any faction in W40K given their shear pathetic nature compared to every other faction. Tyranids are everything Xenomorphs are, but better in every single possible way, be it intelligence, durability, speed, or strength. The OP should have thought the idea out more before dropping the Xeno's into the universe. Even the THING would be more successful than xenomorphs.

Using the game Space Marine as canon with the exact same logic as you are using for AVP:

Space Marine Characters should get wounds back when they kill Orks with a flashy move, this could be represented by any roll of a '6' in assault
When Assault Marines use their jetpacks to assault, the models they assault in base to base should be knocked back and unable to attack for the first round

No really, it has nothing to do with whether something is canon. The problem is you are measuring relative power levels based on game balance values and effects when a tabletop skirmish game has no relative power levels as a FPS or plat former. It is simply a terrible comparison.

 snooggums wrote:

When Assault Marines use their jetpacks to assault, the models they assault in base to base should be knocked back and unable to attack for the first round

FWIW, assuming you put some kind of limit ('The target's Toughness may not be higher than the Space Marine's Strength') this is a pretty cool idea and would make Assault Marines a little more viable in melee, since one of their biggest problems is general lack of melee ability.

Derail over, return to topic.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles

No. You think that they are more powerful. But you have no way to actually compare them because they do not exist. Hence any author that get official license to do some Alien 40k crossover can throw any kind of Applied Phlebotinum mumbo-jumbo to justify pulse rifle being more powerful than even bolters.
Do not underestimate the power of Applied Phlebotinum and other handy plot devices.

We do have means to compare them, we have feats from the Black Library and visuals and text for pulse rifles from the Comics and ALIENS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 snooggums wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except there is no reason to believe the events of the videogame are non canon. While gameplay is non-canon, the events logically are. The only weapons the rookie had access to was a flamethrower, a DMR, the pulse rifle, the smartgun, and a 40mm grenade launcher. Even going for the absolute highest end with the grenade launcher, the Predalien would get shredded. It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles and would easily one-shot any Xenomorph. The only weapon a Predalien might survive in W40K that has widespread use is the Imperial Guard autopistol.

But there simply is no ability for xexnomorphs to be a threat to any faction in W40K given their shear pathetic nature compared to every other faction. Tyranids are everything Xenomorphs are, but better in every single possible way, be it intelligence, durability, speed, or strength. The OP should have thought the idea out more before dropping the Xeno's into the universe. Even the THING would be more successful than xenomorphs.

Using the game Space Marine as canon with the exact same logic as you are using for AVP:

Space Marine Characters should get wounds back when they kill Orks with a flashy move, this could be represented by any roll of a '6' in assault
When Assault Marines use their jetpacks to assault, the models they assault in base to base should be knocked back and unable to attack for the first round

No really, it has nothing to do with whether something is canon. The problem is you are measuring relative power levels based on game balance values and effects when a tabletop skirmish game has no relative power levels as a FPS or plat former. It is simply a terrible comparison.

..

No, your statement is a complete false equivilance. My statement is simply basic logical deduction. It has absolutely nothing to do with game mechanics, simply pure events and what we know the Rookie had on his person.

1) Man enters room with X weapons.

2) Man exits room and leave the corpse of a Praetorian behind him.

3)Therefore, man must have used X weapons to kill Praetorian, a low and high end set of feats can be deduced. Low end is him using his pistol to kill the Praetorian, high end is the grenade launcher on the pulse rifle.

Your poor attempt to discredit my argument completely differs however to the point they're completely different, feth I can't even understand what you wrote, it's just gibberish. I come from a forum centered on versus debates between fictional entities, I'm used to this. Now is the AVP side willing to provide any feats/calcs for Pulse Rifles, or feats for the durability of Praetorians?

 Wyzilla wrote:
We do have means to compare them, we have feats from the Black Library and visuals and text for pulse rifles from the Comics and ALIENS.

Well, you do have descriptions of bolt shooting and pulse rifle shooting, but do you have example of pulse rifle shooting at, say, space marines, or bolter shooting at xenomorphs? No? Then your comparison do not hold.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
We do have means to compare them, we have feats from the Black Library and visuals and text for pulse rifles from the Comics and ALIENS.

Well, you do have descriptions of bolt shooting and pulse rifle shooting, but do you have example of pulse rifle shooting at, say, space marines, or bolter shooting at xenomorphs? No? Then your comparison do not hold.

Except we can build a basic understanding by the amount of energy a pulse rifle exerts...

Guys... a bolter is essentially a 20mm cannon....

here is a video demonstrating the power of a 20mm cannon

that is about the power of a bolter round, although a bolter round is .5 mm smaller, and it will explode inside of the target.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Your poor attempt to discredit my argument completely differs however to the point they're completely different, feth I can't even understand what you wrote, it's just gibberish. I come from a forum centered on versus debates between fictional entities, I'm used to this.

I don't think the youtube comments section counts as a forum.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except we can build a basic understanding by the amount of energy a pulse rifle exerts...

I have played AvP99, AvP2, and seen every Alien movie. Do we have any idea what amount of damage a pulse rifle do to something else than a fictional alien, a fictional human wearing a fictional armor that has a completely unknown level of resistance, or fictional walls/doors that are made of unknown fictional material of unknown resistance? And no, clearly, not being able to damage the trees in the game (IIRC) is no proof of anything .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except we can build a basic understanding by the amount of energy a pulse rifle exerts...

I have played AvP99, AvP2, and seen every Alien movie. Do we have any idea what amount of damage a pulse rifle do to something else than a fictional alien, a fictional human wearing a fictional armor that has a completely unknown level of resistance, or fictional walls/doors that are made of unknown fictional material of unknown resistance? And no, clearly, not being able to damage the trees in the game (IIRC) is no proof of anything .

it has been said in the books and other Alien sources that the Pulse Rifle did very poorly killing Xenomorphs initially because they used a Flechette round, Eventually they made Anti Armor rounds standard issue for any force expected to encounter them, along with issuing Plasma Rifles.

So, does that give “any idea what amount of damage a pulse rifle do to something else than a fictional alien” ?
It gives an idea of the relative power of fictional pulse rifle and fictional xenomorph exoskeletons resistance. But since there are no sources giving any idea of the relative power of any of those compared to bolters or anything else in 40k…

Basically, it comes down to the fact that the Xenomorphs of the Aliens Universe/IP are not a significant threat compared to the things that are considered significant threats in the 40K Universe/IP. If we take the Xenomorphs exactly as they have been presented in their own setting, there's not enough of them, they lack any kind of psychic ability, they've never dealt with a society as militarized and heavily-armed as any society in 40K, and they've never dealt with anything like a Space Marine. Specifically, they've never dealt with anything like the Deathwatch, which makes Xeno-killing its primary function.

So while they would be dangerous to the unwary and unprepared, once a Xenomorph infestation was detected in the Imperium, there is a *vast* array of forces equipped and capable of cleansing it. Not only Space Marines, but IG, SoB, and Adeptus Arbites all have the firepower, the equipment and the know-how to purge the Alien.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except we can build a basic understanding by the amount of energy a pulse rifle exerts...

I have played AvP99, AvP2, and seen every Alien movie. Do we have any idea what amount of damage a pulse rifle do to something else than a fictional alien, a fictional human wearing a fictional armor that has a completely unknown level of resistance, or fictional walls/doors that are made of unknown fictional material of unknown resistance? And no, clearly, not being able to damage the trees in the game (IIRC) is no proof of anything .

Except we can by measuring the visuals of a pulse rifle's power in the movie ALIENS, or go by descriptions from books or panels from comics to calculate the energy exerted. It's quite simple, the only problem is getting a clear example.

Also, bolters are not at all similar to a 20mm cannon, the only similarity is in round size, that's it.

Well, they're also armor-piercing and effective against all forms of infantry and light vehicles.

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, they're also armor-piercing and effective against all forms of infantry and light vehicles.

Except that's only one type of ammunition, there's everything from Hellfire to Melta bolter rounds. Even then, bolters are probably more powerful than a 20mm cannon given their ability to completely liquify somebody with a gut-shot, but I couldn't be sure without footage of a 20mm cannon hitting a pig.

A 20mm cannon is incredibly destructive. With DPU rounds, it shred tanks.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except we can by measuring the visuals of a pulse rifle's power in the movie ALIENS

What?
How are the visuals telling you anything about the real power of the gun? It just gives a very vague idea.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except we can by measuring the visuals of a pulse rifle's power in the movie ALIENS

What?
How are the visuals telling you anything about the real power of the gun? It just gives a very vague idea.

No, it allows us to quantify the amount of energy each round carries by analyzing it frame-by-frame, or judging by the damage wreaked in comic panels or described in a book (although movies are the absolute easiest, books can range from easy to calc if the author uses exact scientific language to horribly impossible if it's flowery prose). Plus using modern firearms as a guide helps as well for quantifying the punch something packs in fiction.

 Wyzilla wrote:
No, it allows us to quantify the amount of energy each round carries by analyzing it frame-by-frame, or judging by the damage wreaked in comic panels or described in a book

The damage inflicted on unknown fictional materials?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Plus using modern firearms as a guide helps as well for quantifying the punch something packs in fiction.

Well, except for Applied Phlebotinum.
And you can expect some quite powerful Applied Phlebotinum if there is some 40k/alien cross-over ever. Because else, the story is going to be damn boring. And nobody would do a very boring crossover .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
No, it allows us to quantify the amount of energy each round carries by analyzing it frame-by-frame, or judging by the damage wreaked in comic panels or described in a book

The damage inflicted on unknown fictional materials?

It does not give us exact numbers but it does help in getting a rough idea.

For example, if we assume the materials used in bulkhead construction on board space ships are of similar materials we have now, then we can calculate how much energy is required to do that sort of damage, giving us a minimum enrgy output.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
No, it allows us to quantify the amount of energy each round carries by analyzing it frame-by-frame, or judging by the damage wreaked in comic panels or described in a book

The damage inflicted on unknown fictional materials?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Plus using modern firearms as a guide helps as well for quantifying the punch something packs in fiction.

Well, except for Applied Phlebotinum.
And you can expect some quite powerful Applied Phlebotinum if there is some 40k/alien cross-over ever. Because else, the story is going to be damn boring. And nobody would do a very boring crossover .

It's quite easy to judge the amount of energy exerted on something (well in a movie, and "easy" is relative, as it's better than going off scant information), as normal organic matter is fairly similar across the board. Xenomorph chitin in the movies for example doesn't seem to be worth a damn besides pressurization. But fictional materials can be relatively judged going by what they survive, like Astartes power armor tanking a battlecannon shot that destroyed ten (square IIRC) meters of concrete reinforced by rebar.

Of course, this is just a basic explanation. You'd have to find out what kind of shot the Leman Russ was loaded with (if a battlecannon is similar to HEAT, Sabots, solid projectiles, etc), what the speed of the projectile was, and what the mass of the projectile was. Just going by "big boom" isn't enough for good accuracy.

 Psienesis wrote:
A 20mm cannon is incredibly destructive. With DPU rounds, it shred tanks.

Most stuff in that category isn't issued DPU stuff, but something like a Russian Sergei 23mm twin-barrel AA machine gun (ZU-23-2) will shred at least APCs with the standard armor piercing ammo available. My mates that were in AA units did have some training time put toward engaging ground targets too, because strangely enough it was thought that many armies won't wish to use expensive planes to take out a single AA emplacement. Ground troops are much cheaper and have a much easier time targeting a low-tech emplacement. As I recall targets stayed around for a long time when shot at by 50cal (12.7mm AA MGs) but once the heavier Sergeis were pointed that way they disintegrated in a few volleys.

 Wyzilla wrote:
It's quite easy to judge the amount of energy exerted on something (well in a movie, and "easy" is relative, as it's better than going off scant information), as normal organic matter is fairly similar across the board.

Fairly similar? Xenomorph can survive in space, and in melted metal. That is not by any way something I would expect from “normal organic matter”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Xenomorph chitin in the movies for example doesn't seem to be worth a damn besides pressurization.

What if that is just your impression because actually pulse rifle are super-duper powerful?

 Wyzilla wrote:
But fictional materials can be relatively judged going by what they survive, like Astartes power armor tanking a battlecannon shot that destroyed ten (square IIRC) meters of concrete reinforced by rebar.

That… is quite ridiculous. Who wrote that gak, and where?

The only xenomorph I can remember surviving in space was in the Alien movie, and that was for half a minute or so. Human beings can survive in space for that long.

Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

Alcibiades wrote:
The only xenomorph I can remember surviving in space was in the Alien movie, and that was for half a minute or so. Human beings can survive in space for that long.

oesn't the pressurisation cause your head to instantly explode?

That is a myth, your eyes would not have a fun time and any blood vessels too close to the surface would likely rupture but no inta gib.

Same with the whole freezing space thing, that depends entirely on how close to the sun you are. At earth distance with no atmosphere to protect you, you would likely cook in short order.

An alien with its hardened exoskelton and lack of need to breath would be able to survuve in space for quite some time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, I think Xenomorphs would definitely have Fleet and possibly Leaping as well. Those things ]fast.

Fast but squishy. If I was going to stat up Xenomorphs... probably something like,

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

I would make it t4 w1.

Also whenever this model takes a wound all enemy models in base contact must make an Initiative test or suffer a str3 ap5 hit.

My two cents is that that I think that they would manage to fit quite easily into the 40k universe and put a much cooler, more sinister spin on the whole who knows wtf is sgoing on under the face of the imperium thing. I think that they would make a really good kind of predator that lives in the depths of many hive worlds, putting a bit more pressure on people to cull them and would really make for some good stories on how the hell you would hunt them down.

Because yes, they may get their areses handed to them by a deathwatch kill team, but I think that it would be damn near impossible to eradicate a Xenomorph infestation from a hive world. There is just too many places for them to hide and too much prey in the form of mutants and whatnot living under the city. They would also get around really easily just due to the extreme amount of shipping that goes on in the imperium. I think that they would actually become a serious threat and would really screw things up for the imperium.

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:
My two cents is that that I think that they would manage to fit quite easily into the 40k universe and put a much cooler, more sinister spin on the whole who knows wtf is sgoing on under the face of the imperium thing. I think that they would make a really good kind of predator that lives in the depths of many hive worlds, putting a bit more pressure on people to cull them and would really make for some good stories on how the hell you would hunt them down.

Because yes, they may get their areses handed to them by a deathwatch kill team, but I think that it would be damn near impossible to eradicate a Xenomorph infestation from a hive world. There is just too many places for them to hide and too much prey in the form of mutants and whatnot living under the city. They would also get around really easily just due to the extreme amount of shipping that goes on in the imperium. I think that they would actually become a serious threat and would really screw things up for the imperium.

I would put them as a threat to individual hives but not much more than that.

The aliens have not shown the patience to hide long enough for interestallar travel which may to weeks or even years, and an infested ship would be simply be destroying or cleansed. A limited genestealer infestation such as that onboard a ship would not be a match for a squad or space marines or stormtroopers.

They will only thrive in situations where they can get access to large numbers or relatively vulnerable prey such as a hive world. And remember even lightly gaurded hives still have forces of several thousand PDF and Arbites who are heavily armed and not nearly as likely to panic as the soldiers in the Aliens franchise.

 Psienesis wrote:
Basically, it comes down to the fact that the Xenomorphs of the Aliens Universe/IP are not a significant threat compared to the things that are considered significant threats in the 40K Universe/IP. If we take the Xenomorphs exactly as they have been presented in their own setting, there's not enough of them, they lack any kind of psychic ability, they've never dealt with a society as militarized and heavily-armed as any society in 40K, and they've never dealt with anything like a Space Marine. Specifically, they've never dealt with anything like the Deathwatch, which makes Xeno-killing its primary function.

So while they would be dangerous to the unwary and unprepared, once a Xenomorph infestation was detected in the Imperium, there is a *vast* array of forces equipped and capable of cleansing it. Not only Space Marines, but IG, SoB, and Adeptus Arbites all have the firepower, the equipment and the know-how to purge the Alien.

While I agree with the fact that they can be destroyed, They breed incredibly fast. if even a drone managed to escape into the depths of a Hive world, it could cause a lot of problems.

They are animals and there main function is to reproduce. They would capture people for birthing. so it would start with a handful of homeless underhivers disappearing. the City wouldn't even know it was a threat before they would probably need deathwatch intervention.

Guard, Arbites can handle small nest. but in the confines of the underhive you would need sisters or marines to bring ordnance needed to clear the hive

 Mythantor wrote:


I would put them as a threat to individual hives but not much more than that.

The aliens have not shown the patience to hide long enough for interestallar travel which may to weeks or even years, and an infested ship would be simply be destroying or cleansed. A limited genestealer infestation such as that onboard a ship would not be a match for a squad or space marines or stormtroopers.

They will only thrive in situations where they can get access to large numbers or relatively vulnerable prey such as a hive world. And remember even lightly gaurded hives still have forces of several thousand PDF and Arbites who are heavily armed and not nearly as likely to panic as the soldiers in the Aliens franchise.

Hmmm, I understand why there may be some trouble then for Aliens to get to different planets and I can't counter this as the only alien knowledge I have stems from the first two movies and a couple of the alien vs predator movies. However I think that if they land on any world other than a shrine world, certain fortress worlds or anywhere that isn't built without mass amounts of soldiers or zealots with next to no vents or under the surface places isn't necessarily game over man, but is in serious trouble. I mean you can have two hundred thousand arbities patrolling a hive world at once, but it's an entire PLANET that the alien has to run around and it just seems impossible that they could kill many of them when you consider their hiding and hunting skills.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Toeko wrote:


While I agree with the fact that they can be destroyed, They breed incredibly fast. if even a drone managed to escape into the depths of a Hive world, it could cause a lot of problems.

They are animals and there main function is to reproduce. They would capture people for birthing. so it would start with a handful of homeless underhivers disappearing. the City wouldn't even know it was a threat before they would probably need deathwatch intervention.

Guard, Arbites can handle small nest. but in the confines of the underhive you would need sisters or marines to bring ordnance needed to clear the hive

I didn't think that Aliens could create more aliens without a queen to make facehuggers. Wouldn't a drone be kind of useless and just kill some people?

A lone drone will manually implant a special egg into a living host. That egg/thing will then hatch to become a queen.

All drones have this capability so in order to wipe out a hive you have to kill them all.

Each "nest" has a queen, in the event of a queen dieing ANY. Drone can then become a queen, aliens are asexual and do not need sex, therefore even a single drone could spawn a hive.

Aliens can and do survive a vacuum and space travel, aliens can also enter a state of hibernation and lay dormant for extremely long periods.

 Toeko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Basically, it comes down to the fact that the Xenomorphs of the Aliens Universe/IP are not a significant threat compared to the things that are considered significant threats in the 40K Universe/IP. If we take the Xenomorphs exactly as they have been presented in their own setting, there's not enough of them, they lack any kind of psychic ability, they've never dealt with a society as militarized and heavily-armed as any society in 40K, and they've never dealt with anything like a Space Marine. Specifically, they've never dealt with anything like the Deathwatch, which makes Xeno-killing its primary function.

So while they would be dangerous to the unwary and unprepared, once a Xenomorph infestation was detected in the Imperium, there is a *vast* array of forces equipped and capable of cleansing it. Not only Space Marines, but IG, SoB, and Adeptus Arbites all have the firepower, the equipment and the know-how to purge the Alien.

While I agree with the fact that they can be destroyed, They breed incredibly fast. if even a drone managed to escape into the depths of a Hive world, it could cause a lot of problems.

They are animals and there main function is to reproduce. They would capture people for birthing. so it would start with a handful of homeless underhivers disappearing. the City wouldn't even know it was a threat before they would probably need deathwatch intervention.

Guard, Arbites can handle small nest. but in the confines of the underhive you would need sisters or marines to bring ordnance needed to clear the hive

No, not really. The PDF should be able to handle them just fine. A Lasgun is as good as a Pulse Rifle and the Imperium has even more potent small arms than the colonial marines do. You may need Stormtroopers if there is an excessive amount of vents, though, because Aliens love their ventilation shafts.

I think their role in the 40k Universe would be one of those creatures that terrorizes the lower levels of Hives and has to be culled every now and again.

I think their role in the 40k Universe would be one of those creatures that terrorizes the lower levels of Hives and has to be culled every now and again.

Exactly this. I think people are forgetting just how hard-core the average Imperial Citizen is, especially one who resides on a Hive World.

These are the sorts of people that, even if they work in Ye Olde GameStop of the Imperium, would think absolutely nothing about walking across Detroit at midnight to get home... because the worst of our cities is nothing compared to a Hive.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
It's quite easy to judge the amount of energy exerted on something (well in a movie, and "easy" is relative, as it's better than going off scant information), as normal organic matter is fairly similar across the board.

Fairly similar? Xenomorph can survive in space, and in melted metal. That is not by any way something I would expect from “normal organic matter”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Xenomorph chitin in the movies for example doesn't seem to be worth a damn besides pressurization.

What if that is just your impression because actually pulse rifle are super-duper powerful?

 Wyzilla wrote:
But fictional materials can be relatively judged going by what they survive, like Astartes power armor tanking a battlecannon shot that destroyed ten (square IIRC) meters of concrete reinforced by rebar.

That… is quite ridiculous. Who wrote that gak, and where?

For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure. Space is just absolute zero pressurization and radiation. The Xenomorph just needs its body to be self-contained and have a chitin coating with the materials or thickness to protect itself from radiation bombarding it. That's it. It's an interesting idea, but it's not "STOP THE PRESSES" level of revolutionary evolution. Circulation-wise Xenomorphs probably are similar to flatworms on some level.

Come to think of it, I wonder if flatworms could survive in a vacuum.

And when the hell did we see a Xenomorph survive in melted metal? That Predalien was likely just some freakish mutant considering it doesn't look like any previous Predalien encountered, not to mention that Xenomorphs die to small arms fire and plasma, the lava would have logically killed any other Xenormoph, or else they'd all be immune to heat weapons. Which we know they aren't, considering flamethrowers kill them.

The one they dropped molten lead (?) on in A3 survived briefly, iirc, but that's not particularly impressive, lead liquifies at a fairly low temperature.

 Psienesis wrote:
The one they dropped molten lead (?) on in A3 survived briefly, iirc, but that's not particularly impressive, lead liquifies at a fairly low temperature.

Oh, Alien 3. I try to forget it exists. I thought he was talking about the Predalien that swam through lava in AVP 2010.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
It's quite easy to judge the amount of energy exerted on something (well in a movie, and "easy" is relative, as it's better than going off scant information), as normal organic matter is fairly similar across the board.

Fairly similar? Xenomorph can survive in space, and in melted metal. That is not by any way something I would expect from “normal organic matter”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Xenomorph chitin in the movies for example doesn't seem to be worth a damn besides pressurization.

What if that is just your impression because actually pulse rifle are super-duper powerful?

 Wyzilla wrote:
But fictional materials can be relatively judged going by what they survive, like Astartes power armor tanking a battlecannon shot that destroyed ten (square IIRC) meters of concrete reinforced by rebar.

That… is quite ridiculous. Who wrote that gak, and where?

For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure. Space is just absolute zero pressurization and radiation. The Xenomorph just needs its body to be self-contained and have a chitin coating with the materials or thickness to protect itself from radiation bombarding it. That's it. It's an interesting idea, but it's not "STOP THE PRESSES" level of revolutionary evolution. Circulation-wise Xenomorphs probably are similar to flatworms on some level.

Come to think of it, I wonder if flatworms could survive in a vacuum.

And when the hell did we see a Xenomorph survive in melted metal? That Predalien was likely just some freakish mutant considering it doesn't look like any previous Predalien encountered, not to mention that Xenomorphs die to small arms fire and plasma, the lava would have logically killed any other Xenormoph, or else they'd all be immune to heat weapons. Which we know they aren't, considering flamethrowers kill them.

As far as I remember flamethrowers have only been used to toast the eggs and keep them at bay. In A2 the flamer seemed to have zero effect on the queen apart from pissing her off that her eggs were getting toasted.

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

The problem is we can't really say that the pulse rifle in AVP is an auto gun. We would need to determine roughly how powerful the pulse rifle is and compare it with the strengths and weaknesses of the various WH40K weapons. For all we know, those pulse rifles could be similar to plasma guns.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

The problem is we can't really say that the pulse rifle in AVP is an auto gun. We would need to determine roughly how powerful the pulse rifle is and compare it with the strengths and weaknesses of the various WH40K weapons. For all we know, those pulse rifles could be similar to plasma guns.

Eh.... probably not. The Aliens universe presents most of its military hardware in terms and measurements that exist in the real world. While a 10mm assault rifle isn't common IRL (it's an SMG round), we have weapons that chamber something not terribly different. While explosive bullets aren't common, they do exist, and thus have rateable effects. Same with armor-piercing bullets.

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

Those are table top rules, which are exclusively a part of the game and only matter if you're playing xenomorphs on the tabletop. Or do you seriously think every single autogun is the same, and thus the SCAR-H is the exact same and no different than any other tacticool rifle? Do you realize that lasguns and autoguns are nothing alike due to one being a DEW and the other a KE weapon, and that the damage each gun inflicts depends entirely on numerous variables?

Tabletop rules are 40k. They simply reflect the game itself, not the universe, the two are mutually exclusive. The rules contribute feth all to the discussion as they're too simplistic for the numerous ways in which a weapon actually behaves and how we've seen them behave.

Lasguns are actually thermo-kinetic. There's a punch as well as a blast of heat.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

The problem is we can't really say that the pulse rifle in AVP is an auto gun. We would need to determine roughly how powerful the pulse rifle is and compare it with the strengths and weaknesses of the various WH40K weapons. For all we know, those pulse rifles could be similar to plasma guns.

Eh.... probably not. The Aliens universe presents most of its military hardware in terms and measurements that exist in the real world. While a 10mm assault rifle isn't common IRL (it's an SMG round), we have weapons that chamber something not terribly different. While explosive bullets aren't common, they do exist, and thus have rateable effects. Same with armor-piercing bullets.

I agree it probably isn't similar to a plasma gun, I was just using that as an example. However, my point does stand. We would have to figure out the sort of energy output and effective range, etc. of the pulse rifles as well as the various weapons of WH40K-verse. Pulse rifls are relatively easy. WH40K weapons...damn near impossible.

 Psienesis wrote:
Lasguns are actually thermo-kinetic. There's a punch as well as a blast of heat.

Gotta love esoteric lasguns. Sometimes they're DEW, other times they're explosive energy. Although, not that surprising given the Imperium which rarely standardizes anything. I'm sure there's one planet in the IOM that makes toasters out of wood.

How else will they get their fiber?

 Wyzilla wrote:
For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure.

Yeah, but that AND melted metal? Seems quite resistant to me.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure.

Yeah, but that AND melted metal? Seems quite resistant to me.

Except again, melted metal doesn't require outlandishly high temperatures, especially for lead, and the Predalien was a wholly unique individual for several reasons that does not represent the capabilities of Xenomorphs at all. Plus the Dog Alien still died, so no, they're not resistant. Lead becomes molten at only something like 650 Degrees Fahrenheit. It's not that impressive. Just for an example, a napalm flamethrower generates a temperature of anywhere between 1,500-2,000 degrees F. Xenos would be smoked, literally.

Happyjew wrote:I agree it probably isn't similar to a plasma gun, I was just using that as an example. However, my point does stand. We would have to figure out the sort of energy output and effective range, etc. of the pulse rifles as well as the various weapons of WH40K-verse. Pulse rifls are relatively easy. WH40K weapons...damn near impossible.

That is something in the Aliens IP's favor. It's fairly consistent (though not visually, in the films, but that's not that important) in what the various entities within it are capable of. In the AVP comics, pulse rifles don't go from mowing down Xenos by the hundreds in one issue and then bouncing harmlessly off in the next (as lasguns and bolters both can in BL fiction).

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except again, melted metal doesn't require outlandishly high temperatures, especially for lead

Would you swim in melted lead?
Just what I thought!

 Wyzilla wrote:
Plus the Dog Alien still died, so no, they're not resistant.

.
I am amazed at your definition of “not resistant”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Lead becomes molten at only something like 650 Degrees Fahrenheit. It's not that impressive. Just for an example, a napalm flamethrower generates a temperature of anywhere between 1,500-2,000 degrees F. Xenos would be smoked, literally.

Yeah, I would not be so sure. Notably because stuff like VHC may play a role here.

Orks would make mincemeet out of aliens orks spores would outgrow parasites, and Orks would probably survive a chest burster as would space marines, and if a planet would be infested, the imperium would have no problem to call in exterminatus.

Also it would be funny if the alien ship that caried the eggs would crash on a necron tomb world

I think that the aliens will be a minor thing, maybe every once and awhile, they might actually be a threat, I doubt that. Preds would be a little more interesting to see in the 40k universe, but once again they would be a small threat compared to other races.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
.

oesn't the pressurisation cause your head to instantly explode?

If you did not first bake or freeze to death, depending on where, exactly, in space you are. Explosive decompression simply isn't something that happens in a vacuum, though.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you did not first bake or freeze to death, depending on where, exactly, in space you are. Explosive decompression simply isn't something that happens in a vacuum, though.

"Space," says the introduction to The Hitchhiker's Guide, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is." A-a-and so on. It also says that if you hold a lungful of air, you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about 30 seconds. But with space being really big and all, the chances of being picked up within that time are 22,079,460,347 to one against. Strangely, this is also the telephone number of an Islington flat where Arthur Dent went to a fancy dress party, and met a very nice young woman whom he totally blew it with. Though the planet Earth, the Islington flat and the telephone have all now been demolished, it is comforting to reflect that they are all, in some small way, commemorated by the fact that 29 seconds later, Arthur and Ford were, in fact, rescued.

Damn you Furyou, you beat me to it.

IIRC the last thing you want to do in space is hold your breath. Doing so will cause your lungs to rupture like a popped balloon.

A Space Marine could hold a Xenomorph to the ground and make it play uncle.

 Psienesis wrote:
A 20mm cannon is incredibly destructive. With DPU rounds, it shred tanks.

Not really...
They CAN penetrate armor...but...
The stats I can find are
20mm Soloturn: 35mm RHAe penetration at 300m with AP round
20mm Lahti: 40mm RHAe penetration at 60 degree obliquity at unknown range with APCR rounds
20mm DM-43 rounds: 40mm RHAe penetration at 1km
20mm DM-63 rounds: 44mm RHAe penetration at 1km
20mm HVAP Rh-202 cannon: 34mm RHAe penetration at 1 km
20mm RH202: DM43 API-T ammo 55mm RHAe penetration @ 2 KM
20mm RH202: DM63 APDS-T ammo 60mm RHAe penetration @ 2 KM
20mm RH202: DM81 HE-I-T ammo 20mm RHAe penetration @ 2 KM
25x137 Oerlikon APDS - 30mm penetration/60°/1000m, 25mm penetration/60°/2000m
25x137 Oerlikon APFSDS - 36mm penetration/60mm°/1000m, 31mm penetration/60°/2000m
25x137 Alliant APFSDS FANG - 31mm penetration/60°/2000m

30x173 Mk268 APFSDS - 55mm penetration/60°/1000m
30x173 Oerlikon FAPDS - 31mm penetration/60°/1000m, 25mm penetration/60°/2000m

30x173 PGU-14 - 69mm penetration at 500 meters 38mm penetration at 1000 meters at 90°, presumably, but the actual penetration is about 25% higher.


Even taking the best penetration of 69 mm RHAe penetration and doubling it to 138mm and rounding up to 150mm penetration...it would be hard pressed to penetrate the frontal armor of a T-55 tank, which is pretty much useless in modern terms...
T55 armor: hull front 100 mm @60°, turret front 205 mm (rounded), hull side 80 mm @0°, lower hull side 20 mm @0°, turret side 130 mm (rounded), hull rear 60 mm @0°, turret rear 60 mm (rounded), hull top 33-16 mm, turret top 30 mm, hull floor 20 mm

Most modern tanks have upwards of 500mm RHAe armor on the frontal armor...so no...20mm weapons do NOT shred tanks...

They CAN get mobility kills if they are able to hit the rear deck and penetrate the rear armor AND damage the engine..but there will be no "shredding of tanks" with 20mm weaponry, at least not in engagements from the front. Can they inflict damage, yes, but only if the tank unit commander is a gak and has no idea of combined arms or tactics and gets flanked and somehow doesn't know enough to pivot steer and do a retrograde...

-STS