Alright, here's the deal; for whatever reason, some Inquisitor, say Ordo Malleus, is hanging out with some Deathwatch bros. Some Astartes pisses him off, to the point he's decided to make an example of this Marine himself. Now, the Asrtartes is a 9' fall superhuman whilst the Inquisitor, as badass as they seem to be, is still a tiny puny Terran.
Exactly what in the lore makes Inquisitors so insanely tough? Are they warded? Are they all minor Psykers(I know there are major ones too)? How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
**EDIT**
Let me clear the air here; I'm talking out of game literature to back tabletop stats. I got a lot of relies of "Oh a space Marine would wipe the walls with em!" but. on the table, I think even the most basically equipped Inquisitor is going to massacre most basic Marines, even Sergeants. So no, most basic Marines would not wipe the walls with an Inquisitor, from a tabletop point of view. I'm just looking for info as to why that is.
The general answer is psykin', Emperor's Protection, and special, even alien or chaotic, weapons and armor.
The Inquisitor most likely has his own enhancements plus better equipment like pre Heresy stuff even DAOT stuff and it's highly likely he would be a Psyker.
IIRC in one of the Soul Drinkers books an Inquisitor fought a marine and had a special gun and sword, The gun shot these really rare rounds and the sword could shatter into pieces and shoot towards an enemy and even with all that he only won when a statue crushed the Marine.
So IMO i would choose the Inquisitor over the Marine most of the time.
A marine would obliterate almost any human one on one.
However, as mentioned, Inquisitors have really cool toys that gives them an advantage over their opponent. I do believe they have a Rosarius type object? They get really powerful warp spawned weapons and they are often potent psykers.
Yeah the Inquisitors have all sorts of special gubbins that we don't really know about.
For Example, in one of the Ciaphas Cain books.. Amberley Vail has an in-built teleporter that will displace her randomly if she was about to be hit by something deadly.
That piece of equipment and others like it would help Inquisitors avoid the super-fast reflexes of a Space Marine. I really think a normal Astartes would be completely outmatched.
Thanks for the replies, good to know. Since Inquisitors are so mysterious, I think I'll chalk mine's unbelievable toughness up to a full body Emperor's Protection tattoo.
ZakFaire wrote: Thanks for the replies, good to know. Since Inquisitors are so mysterious, I think I'll chalk mine's unbelievable toughness up to a full body Emperor's Protection tattoo.
Without some sort of bionics or protective equipment that would allow an Inquisitor to either A) keep up with a Marine's speed, or B) survive the Marine's initial attack, the Inquisitor is pretty much boned, regardless of what offensive weapons he/she has.
As Know No Fear shows us, Space Marine reflexes are so quick that they can draw their weapon, aim for the optimal kill-shot and make it in the time it would take for people to blink.
Give the Marine a bolt pistol and the Inquisitor a melta-gun and the Astartes will win the majority simply by drawing his pistol and blowing the Inquisitor's head off before he could fire. Have the Marine's bolt pistol be holstered and have the Inquisitor be already carrying his meltagun in hand, and the conclusion would probably be the same.
The Marine armed with a standard bolter would place a single round trough the skull of the inqusitor from a safe distance and then proced too walk away, and if armed with a bolt pistiol he would simple draw, aim and fire before the Inqusitor had time to even aim the weapon he/she was carrying.
It really depends, of course the space marine would win if they were both unarmed and unarmoured, or if both were armed identically, but inquisitor almost always have psychic amplifiers meaning a simple "smite" or "iron arm" could mean victory, that's not including the force field generators they carry and more often than not, DAOT/ xenos/ demonic artefacts capable of shredding power armou
Automatically Appended Next Post: Umm, just realised it says im from japan... no idea what that's about...
I guess it would come down to what equipment the Inquisitor was equipped. If it was Hector Rex then I think he would be pretty boss against an Astartes.
blood guard26 wrote: It really depends, of course the space marine would win if they were both unarmed and unarmoured, or if both were armed identically, but inquisitor almost always have psychic amplifiers meaning a simple "smite" or "iron arm" could mean victory, that's not including the force field generators they carry and more often than not, DAOT/ xenos/ demonic artefacts capable of shredding power armou
Automatically Appended Next Post: Umm, just realised it says im from japan... no idea what that's about...
Edit your profile and put what country you really are from then. When you get to the "edit profile" page there should be a "country flag" option, just choose which one.
BlaxicanX wrote: Without some sort of bionics or protective equipment that would allow an Inquisitor to either A) keep up with a Marine's speed, or B) survive the Marine's initial attack, the Inquisitor is pretty much boned, regardless of what offensive weapons he/she has.
As Know No Fear shows us, Space Marine reflexes are so quick that they can draw their weapon, aim for the optimal kill-shot and make it in the time it would take for people to blink.
Give the Marine a bolt pistol and the Inquisitor a melta-gun and the Astartes will win the majority simply by drawing his pistol and blowing the Inquisitor's head off before he could fire. Have the Marine's bolt pistol be holstered and have the Inquisitor be already carrying his meltagun in hand, and the conclusion would probably be the same.
You know, this really makes me sweat when imagining the speed of Genestealers, daemons of slaanesh, and the two variants of Eldar.
BlaxicanX wrote: Without some sort of bionics or protective equipment that would allow an Inquisitor to either A) keep up with a Marine's speed, or B) survive the Marine's initial attack, the Inquisitor is pretty much boned, regardless of what offensive weapons he/she has.
As Know No Fear shows us, Space Marine reflexes are so quick that they can draw their weapon, aim for the optimal kill-shot and make it in the time it would take for people to blink.
Give the Marine a bolt pistol and the Inquisitor a melta-gun and the Astartes will win the majority simply by drawing his pistol and blowing the Inquisitor's head off before he could fire. Have the Marine's bolt pistol be holstered and have the Inquisitor be already carrying his meltagun in hand, and the conclusion would probably be the same.
While generally that's the case, keep in mind that 40k does in fact adhere to Charles Atlas Superpowers. Sufficiently badass human characters can rival a Marine's speed through training.
Does the average Inquisitor? I don't know. I personally doubt it, considering how some Inquisitors can be relatively poor combatants and might not focus on it at all.
Gregor Eisenhorn is more than a match for most Marines. So is Ravenor. Same with Hector Rex.
But others like Coteaz aren't exactly known for their personal prowess. Karamazov is physically frail, relying on his pimp chair. Annika Jarlsdottyr would be murdered by the average Marine.
Still though, Inquisitors vary so much you'd have to take it as on a case-by-case basis.
BlaxicanX wrote: Without some sort of bionics or protective equipment that would allow an Inquisitor to either A) keep up with a Marine's speed, or B) survive the Marine's initial attack, the Inquisitor is pretty much boned, regardless of what offensive weapons he/she has.
As Know No Fear shows us, Space Marine reflexes are so quick that they can draw their weapon, aim for the optimal kill-shot and make it in the time it would take for people to blink.
Give the Marine a bolt pistol and the Inquisitor a melta-gun and the Astartes will win the majority simply by drawing his pistol and blowing the Inquisitor's head off before he could fire. Have the Marine's bolt pistol be holstered and have the Inquisitor be already carrying his meltagun in hand, and the conclusion would probably be the same.
While I can appreciate that, as it would seem in the lore, statwise and gamewise, I'd pit a good Inquisitor against damn near any Space Marine, save some of the big name heroes, and expect a win. I mean, unless that Marine has higher initiative and can effectively dish out 3 wounds, or instant kill which isn't really going to happen at regular initiative order, he's probably going to die. Nemesis Demon Hammer, especially master crafted, it pretty gnarly.
Of course Marine special characters, as well as more experienced battle brothers will probably win, I'm just wondering, considering the lore, how an Inquisitor could stand up to the majority of Marines, given how pathetic and tiny he is. I would suppose it HAS to come from the Emperor's blessing, not mere technological trinkets.
While generally that's the case, keep in mind that 40k does in fact adhere to Charles Atlas Superpowers. Sufficiently badass human characters can rival a Marine's speed through training.
Does the average Inquisitor? I don't know. I personally doubt it, considering how some Inquisitors can be relatively poor combatants and might not focus on it at all.
Gregor Eisenhorn is more than a match for most Marines. So is Ravenor. Same with Hector Rex.
But others like Coteaz aren't exactly known for their personal prowess. Karamazov is physically frail, relying on his pimp chair. Annika Jarlsdottyr would be murdered by the average Marine.
Still though, Inquisitors vary so much you'd have to take it as on a case-by-case basis.
Very good advise, I didn't think about it that way. I guess there are some damn near demigod like human out there(such as those in the Ordo Assassinorum).
The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
ZakFaire wrote:How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: But, let us suppose she has a melta. She shoot one shot at the marine, and leave a small puddle of melted marine.
Meltas are melee weapons now?
That said, the Marine is at a considerable advantage.
There are really far too many variables in Inquisitor ability and equipment for one, sweeping statement to be made. One Inquisitor may be beaten to a puddle in seconds, another might have some powerful/alien/demon weapon or other piece of equipment capable of beating an astates fairly easily.
ZakFaire wrote: Alright, here's the deal; for whatever reason, some Inquisitor, say Ordo Malleus, is hanging out with some Deathwatch bros. Some Astartes pisses him off, to the point he's decided to make an example of this Marine himself. Now, the Asrtartes is a 9' fall superhuman whilst the Inquisitor, as badass as they seem to be, is still a tiny puny Terran.
Exactly what in the lore makes Inquisitors so insanely tough? Are they warded? Are they all minor Psykers(I know there are major ones too)? How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Pretty most Inquisitors are psykers and lots of them carry esoteric gear, like autotargeting psycannons on their shoulders, predator style. But considering mind-popping abilities, unless it's an Exorcist, the Astartes it probably going to get wrecked unless he gets the jump on the Inquisitor or just speed blitzes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BlaxicanX wrote: Without some sort of bionics or protective equipment that would allow an Inquisitor to either A) keep up with a Marine's speed, or B) survive the Marine's initial attack, the Inquisitor is pretty much boned, regardless of what offensive weapons he/she has.
As Know No Fear shows us, Space Marine reflexes are so quick that they can draw their weapon, aim for the optimal kill-shot and make it in the time it would take for people to blink.
Give the Marine a bolt pistol and the Inquisitor a melta-gun and the Astartes will win the majority simply by drawing his pistol and blowing the Inquisitor's head off before he could fire. Have the Marine's bolt pistol be holstered and have the Inquisitor be already carrying his meltagun in hand, and the conclusion would probably be the same.
This is how it works out for normal humans or Commissars, normal human beings just with powerful guns are going to die easily. But Inquisitors are psykers, meaning both precognition and head popping.
ZakFaire wrote:How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: But, let us suppose she has a melta. She shoot one shot at the marine, and leave a small puddle of melted marine.
Meltas are melee weapons now?
That said, the Marine is at a considerable advantage.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Wouldn't the Inquisitor just shame the Marine?
Marines seem pretty well brainwashed and once they accept the authority of the inquisitor, it seems unlikely that an inquisitor would need to "make an example" of him.
It seems less likely that the inquisitor would take such action if the marine expected it. Should an inquisitor want to do something as foolish as attacking a marine under his command, I would bet that it is an inquisitor who's got enough special gear where he is confident that he's going to win.
If the marine initiated the combat, I think the inquisitor has a pretty poor chance.
Gregor Eisenhorn is more than a match for most Marines.
Since when? The Deathwatch were in true awe of the fact that Eisenhorn
Spoiler:
had actually managed to kill a Chaos Space Marine, which he only managed to do by tricking it when it was kicking his arse. He certainly didn't stand up and best it by might alone.
HawaiiMatt wrote: Wouldn't the Inquisitor just shame the Marine?
Marines seem pretty well brainwashed and once they accept the authority of the inquisitor, it seems unlikely that an inquisitor would need to "make an example" of him.
It seems less likely that the inquisitor would take such action if the marine expected it. Should an inquisitor want to do something as foolish as attacking a marine under his command, I would bet that it is an inquisitor who's got enough special gear where he is confident that he's going to win.
If the marine initiated the combat, I think the inquisitor has a pretty poor chance.
From all the Deathwatch material, Astartes respect the authority of their chapter and breed. They do not however seem to respect Inquisitors at all (save possibly the Exorcists), at best they might somewhat respect an Imperial Guardsmen of rank for bravery in battle. But an Inquisitor would be unlikely to gain anything via "shaming". A Watch Captain most certainly, but not the Inquisition.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
Not all Inquisitors are psykers. In fact, simply by virtue of how rare psykers are in general, further compounded by how few manage to pass sanctioning, it's likely that psychic Inquisitors are an extreme minority, despite their prominence in the fluff.
But yeah, having psychic abilities evens the playing field considerably.
As for Eisenhorn, he's kind of a gak psyker so the only rationalization I can concoct for his monstrous badassery is that he must have the Fear USR. I mean, he's pretty average in firefights, he's a good shot but mostly relies on cunning and resourcefulness to survive asymmetrical gun battles. It's only in melee combat that he becomes an insane space-ninja capable of "exchanging twenty blows in the blink of an eye" with his opponents.
I've never read anything to support the suggestion that most Inquisitors are psykers. Certainly the more puritan Inquisitors are less likely to be Psykers. I doubt there are near as many Psykers as non-psykers in the Inquisition.
There are soo many different flavors of inquisitors, its not even funny.
However the most likely that can straight up beat a Spess Mhrin would be a Psyker channeling biomancy or telepathy to feth with him, or a heavily augmented bio man inquisitor which kung fu grip action.
Deadshot wrote: I've never read anything to support the suggestion that most Inquisitors are psykers. Certainly the more puritan Inquisitors are less likely to be Psykers. I doubt there are near as many Psykers as non-psykers in the Inquisition.
Yup. I actually tried to verify that whole "Psyker" thing but I can't find anything on it. I thought they were typically psykers but I guess I wad wrong.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
'assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?'
It does not say they both ONLY have melee weapons and armor, simply that they do have them, the exclusion of other equipment is not stated.
By that point though, the thread question then becomes "is it possible for a person to have equipment or powers that would allow them to beat a Space Marine?"
To which the answer is... yes. Obviously yes, there's a point where a person can be equipped with such badass weapons and armor, or psychic abilities, that they could beat a Space Marine. Has that ever really been in question?
As above, psychic Inquisitors, whilst common in the game, are more than likely extremely rare in fluff. Also with regards to most Inquisitors, they are just average humans with some extra training and archeotech gubbinz. Inquisitors are chosen primarily for their inquisitive and dedicated nature to stopping their chosen foe (Chaos, Xenos, Heretics, the Assassinorum, etc), not for their combat skills. Astartes on the other hand, are genetically engineered to be far superior to most unaided humans (if not all) even stripped of weapons and armour. The only things that tip this battle to the favour of the Inquisitor is any archeotech relics he/she may possess or being a psyker. And the archeotech or special tools might not even stop a Space Marine with a special weapon. Otherwise, the battle is far in the Marine's favour. After all, it is unfair to give the Inquisitor shinies and not the Astartes (of undetermined rank).
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
'assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?'
It does not say they both ONLY have melee weapons and armor, simply that they do have them, the exclusion of other equipment is not stated.
Well then the Marine wins, I guess, since he just uses his Reaver Titan to stomp on the Inquisitor?
This is like the 'permissive ruleset' debate all over again.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
'assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?'
It does not say they both ONLY have melee weapons and armor, simply that they do have them, the exclusion of other equipment is not stated.
Well then the Marine wins, I guess, since he just uses his Reaver Titan to stomp on the Inquisitor?
This is like the 'permissive ruleset' debate all over again.
Deadshot wrote: The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
Ask the Space Wolves how well this works in practice.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
'assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?'
It does not say they both ONLY have melee weapons and armor, simply that they do have them, the exclusion of other equipment is not stated.
Well then the Marine wins, I guess, since he just uses his Reaver Titan to stomp on the Inquisitor?
This is like the 'permissive ruleset' debate all over again.
HAHA *claps fervently*
Inquistor brings out his starship.
Which is quickly reduced to scrap by the Chapter Fleets from 10 Chapters the Space Marine brought along.
Since when? The Deathwatch were in true awe of the fact that Eisenhorn
Spoiler:
had actually managed to kill a Chaos Space Marine, which he only managed to do by tricking it when it was kicking his arse. He certainly didn't stand up and best it by might alone.
That was a younger, less experienced Eisenhorn.
Spoiler:
In Pariah he cuts down three Chaos Marines in short order.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
What if this Inquisitor is wearing Terminator Armour with an in-built force field and a nemesis force weapon? Being a psyker what if he then uses Warptime and Hammerhand to make himself faster than Usain Bolt and huge like Brock Lesnar?
Some inquisitors, like Hector Rex, need nothing more than their own personal prowess to kill the average Marine.
Inquisitors are extremely varied. More than Marines are. So it's a hard call.
Not really. Inquisitors are often psykers, carry esoteric protection devises like a Rosarius (laugh off Dark Eldar dark lances or whatever their AT guns are called), areotech weapons (grav guns, lightsabers, melta pistols, relic blades, etc) or alien tech if they're a radical inquisitor, possibly meaning Necorn phase blades which ignore armor completely. Plus psyker again. Lightning, precognition, mind rupturing, telekinesis, biomancy, etc.
Why is nobody reading OP?
ZakFaire wrote: How would a hand-to-hand brawl between an Astartes and an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go down, assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?
Sure, it's one thing if he is a psyker, but otherwise both basically have armour and a sword.
The difference is that the Inquisitor is likely to be protected by an energy field and wield a blade capable of cleaving clean through whatever the Astartes carries.
It is 100% irrelevant since the premise was simply melee weapons and armor.
'assuming both had their melee weapons and armor?'
It does not say they both ONLY have melee weapons and armor, simply that they do have them, the exclusion of other equipment is not stated.
Well then the Marine wins, I guess, since he just uses his Reaver Titan to stomp on the Inquisitor?
This is like the 'permissive ruleset' debate all over again.
HAHA *claps fervently*
Inquistor brings out his starship.
Which is quickly reduced to scrap by the Chapter Fleets from 10 Chapters the Space Marine brought along.
What if this Inquisitor is wearing Terminator Armour with an in-built force field and a nemesis force weapon? Being a psyker what if he then uses Warptime and Hammerhand to make himself faster than Usain Bolt and huge like Brock Lesnar?
Some inquisitors, like Hector Rex, need nothing more than their own personal prowess to kill the average Marine.
Inquisitors are extremely varied. More than Marines are. So it's a hard call.
So like any good comparative, let us look at the average Space Marine versus the average Inquisitor.
The Space Marine is selected at youth, physically and mentally altered to become a perfect warrior with armor that can withstand small armaments short of artillery shells with ease, dexterity to match the sharpest of predators, and the military acumen to by themselves organize a planet wide rebellion and overthrow almost any government.
The Inquisitor is picked by a senior Inquisitor, bearing great determination and intelligence. He or she may or may not of gone through training in the art of war and subterfuge. They may not have access to crazy technology for personal use. They may not exactly be in the best of health.
An average Inquisitor stands no chance against an average Space Marine. Lore dictates that a Marine be primed for war to fight any number of foes. An Inquisitor merely must be absolutely loyal to the Emperor (or their perception of what loyalty constitutes) and have the drive and will to carry out their duties to that effect.
The ranks of Inquisitors I am sure also includes those who have great psychic potential and martial prowess, but that by no means defines an Inquisitor. An Inquisitor uses whatever means necessary to protect their version of the Imperium from whatever harm may come their way, in spite of their limitations.
Deadshot wrote: The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
Ask the Space Wolves how well this works in practise
Talking about the average Marine (ie, a Codex Marine in a Codex Chapter, with no First Founding political sway) or one in the Deathwatch (directly under authority of the Inquisition), this does work. Citing an exception to the rule does not disprove it.
"Captain Awesomeness, by my hand and order, by the power invested in me by this Inquisitorial Seal as hand of the Emperor, I hearby strip you of the rank of Captain, and all associated honours, and demote you to the rank of Battle Brother. To defy my word is to defy the Emperor as a heretic and a traitor. The punishment for heresy is redemption, through death. Do you wish to defy me?"
"Nah, I'm good."
Deadshot wrote: The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
Ask the Space Wolves how well this works in practice.
When has it ever been stated the majority of Inquisitors in the Ordos aren't psykers? Every psyker I've ever encountered in the Black Library has been a psyker. Never heard of non-psyker Inquisitors.
Deadshot wrote: The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
Ask the Space Wolves how well this works in practise
Talking about the average Marine (ie, a Codex Marine in a Codex Chapter, with no First Founding political sway) or one in the Deathwatch (directly under authority of the Inquisition), this does work. Citing an exception to the rule does not disprove it.
"Captain Awesomeness, by my hand and order, by the power invested in me by this Inquisitorial Seal as hand of the Emperor, I hearby strip you of the rank of Captain, and all associated honours, and demote you to the rank of Battle Brother. To defy my word is to defy the Emperor as a heretic and a traitor. The punishment for heresy is redemption, through death. Do you wish to defy me?"
"Nah, I'm good."
Not that it matters anyway. If the captain's Chapter Master disagrees he can just promote him back up and the Inquisitor can't do jack. If the CM agrees he would probably have demoted him himself anyway.
When has it ever been stated the majority of Inquisitors in the Ordos aren't psykers? Every psyker I've ever encountered in the Black Library has been a psyker. Never heard of non-psyker Inquisitors.
That isn't how the burden of proof works dude.
Every important inquisitor in BL is a psyker because writers are very lazy.
Deadshot wrote: The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
Ask the Space Wolves how well this works in practice.
When has it ever been stated the majority of Inquisitors in the Ordos aren't psykers? Every psyker I've ever encountered in the Black Library has been a psyker. Never heard of non-psyker Inquisitors.
Psykers are rare, for a start. Most of them end up on Black Ships to be fed to the Emperor, or feed the Astromican. Some end up in the GK. A handful others end up in other Astartes Chapters. Some more go into the IG as Sanctioned Psykers. Of the ones that arn't used by the Imperium, the remainder either become Chaos Sorcerors, eaten/possessed by Daemons, hunted down and killed by the Imperium/SoB/Ordo Hereticus.
Of the remainder, some are recruited by Inqusitors, or go unnoticed.
The odds of a Psyker becoming an Inquisitor are very very slim. The only reason you read about loads of them is because those are ones that are written about. They represent a very tiny portion of the Inquisition.
Deadshot wrote: The Inquisitor always wins. If the Marine fights back he would kill the Inquisitor in a few blows and be labelled a heretic and traitor and executed.
If the Inquisitor justed wanted to make an example he would strip him of all honour and rank, demote him to the lowest of the low, send him on a 1 man penance crusade...etc.
Ask the Space Wolves how well this works in practise
Talking about the average Marine (ie, a Codex Marine in a Codex Chapter, with no First Founding political sway) or one in the Deathwatch (directly under authority of the Inquisition), this does work. Citing an exception to the rule does not disprove it.
"Captain Awesomeness, by my hand and order, by the power invested in me by this Inquisitorial Seal as hand of the Emperor, I hearby strip you of the rank of Captain, and all associated honours, and demote you to the rank of Battle Brother. To defy my word is to defy the Emperor as a heretic and a traitor. The punishment for heresy is redemption, through death. Do you wish to defy me?"
"Nah, I'm good."
Not that it matters anyway. If the captain's Chapter Master disagrees he can just promote him back up and the Inquisitor can't do jack. If the CM agrees he would probably have demoted him himself anyway.
The Inquisition carry the authority of the Emperor himself. To defy him is to defy the Emperor. An Inquisitor's word is Law. No right-minded Space Marine, Chapter Master or not, would go against him without a very good reason.
WarOne wrote: So like any good comparative, let us look at the average Space Marine versus the average Inquisitor.
The Space Marine is selected at youth, physically and mentally altered to become a perfect warrior with armor that can withstand small armaments short of artillery shells with ease, dexterity to match the sharpest of predators, and the military acumen to by themselves organize a planet wide rebellion and overthrow almost any government.
The Inquisitor is picked by a senior Inquisitor, bearing great determination and intelligence. He or she may or may not of gone through training in the art of war and subterfuge. They may not have access to crazy technology for personal use. They may not exactly be in the best of health.
An average Inquisitor stands no chance against an average Space Marine. Lore dictates that a Marine be primed for war to fight any number of foes. An Inquisitor merely must be absolutely loyal to the Emperor (or their perception of what loyalty constitutes) and have the drive and will to carry out their duties to that effect.
The ranks of Inquisitors I am sure also includes those who have great psychic potential and martial prowess, but that by no means defines an Inquisitor. An Inquisitor uses whatever means necessary to protect their version of the Imperium from whatever harm may come their way, in spite of their limitations.
So in short, Space Marine wins most of the time.
This is a pretty good post, and more or less represents my own thoughts on the matter.
The Inquisition carry the authority of the Emperor himself. To defy him is to defy the Emperor. An Inquisitor's word is Law. No right-minded Space Marine, Chapter Master or not, would go against him without a very good reason.
People say this a lot, but how often does this really occur?
The Space Marines exist in a grey area concerning whether or not they are subject to the demands of an Inquisitor, and this grey area is one most Inquisitors don't cross into IMO.
An Inquisitor who prefers to enter combat himself will be stacked with all the goodies he can get - power fields, power weapons, customized power armor and maybe also Xeno tech. The "average" Battle Brother will have problems there IMO - it would take a Captain with his own stack of relics to put up a fight.
But the "average" non-specialized Inquisitor will get his butt handed to him by just about any Astartes.
When has it ever been stated the majority of Inquisitors in the Ordos aren't psykers? Every psyker I've ever encountered in the Black Library has been a psyker. Never heard of non-psyker Inquisitors.
Psykers are rare, for a start. Most of them end up on Black Ships to be fed to the Emperor, or feed the Astromican. Some end up in the GK. A handful others end up in other Astartes Chapters. Some more go into the IG as Sanctioned Psykers. Of the ones that arn't used by the Imperium, the remainder either become Chaos Sorcerors, eaten/possessed by Daemons, hunted down and killed by the Imperium/SoB/Ordo Hereticus.
Of the remainder, some are recruited by Inqusitors, or go unnoticed.
The odds of a Psyker becoming an Inquisitor are very very slim. The only reason you read about loads of them is because those are ones that are written about. They represent a very tiny portion of the Inquisition.
There's trillions of humans in the Imperium. Even with psykers being a small amount, just 1% or even .001% would still result in an astronomically large amount of psykers to be trained by the Inquisition.
All Inquisitors are at least *taught* psyker skills. Before you become an Inquisitor first you must be an interrogator, and as an interrogator you learn how to interrogate people psychically as well as how to resist hostile psykic influences. Sure, some Inquisitors may not be amazing psykers, but they all know the basics, and those Inquisitors who are terrible Psykers probably either have desk jobs or were part of a noble family or something. This is even more prominent in the field of the Ordo Mallius, were I'd assume being either a Psyker or a Blank (Either one would work) is partically mandatory for any field work!
My question here is a simple one: Assuming this Inquisitor is armed with the greatest weaponry available to any inquisitor ever, something like the Soulspear from the Blood Drinkers books that can carve its way through the very essence of a Daemon Prince like its butter, what the Hell is he going to do with it when a Space Marine can dart forward at incredible speed and snap his neck with a bare hand before the inquisitor can move?
Augmentations aside, Space Marines are SUPER-human. End of story. They have physiologies that are perfect. They have reflexes that are perfect. They have trained until they are each and every one as perfect as they possibly could be. How is a human being who only has a select few years to live and has spent more of their life learning techniques for interrogation and subterfuge going to out perform a creature that has been bred and taught a life time of war?
I'd say that a well armed inquisitor stands a chance against say.....a Scout. There are named Character Inquisitors who have spent their lives training and preparing to fight the greatest daemons, and arming themselves with the best weapons; these are few and far between, and most are thrown in with the Ordo Malleus, and therefore would leave Space Marines in general alone due to respect gained through interaction with Grey Knights.
On the subject of an Inquisitor shaming a Space Marine; need I remind you what happened the last time the Imperium tried to bully the Space Wolves? They told them to feth off or die, and guess what, they fethed off. All of Fenris surrounded, and not a single scared Space Wolf. Its hard to put fear into a being that feels no fear. So, there are a lot of variables. But 90% of the time, the average Inquisitor is just a human with an extra high intelligence and a lot of skill at ferreting out dissent and heresy. That's what they do. They have Grey Knights for their bully boy work, and Space Marine Chapters discipline their own. And for those of you wondering, I'm pulling these snippets and opinions from the Grey Knights and Space Wolf codexes, the Space Wolves Omnibus, the Ravenor books, and Fear The Alien (collected short stories).
Purifyingflame_7 wrote: Augmentations aside, Space Marines are SUPER-human. End of story. They have physiologies that are perfect. They have reflexes that are perfect. They have trained until they are each and every one as perfect as they possibly could be. How is a human being who only has a select few years to live and has spent more of their life learning techniques for interrogation and subterfuge going to out perform a creature that has been bred and taught a life time of war?
Few marines will survive to become even 200 years old as they have a bad habit of dying in combat. The oldest active Ultramarine is less than 400 - Chaplain Cassius. And he calls his Chapter Master "young Calgar". Someone like Commander Dante is an anomaly even among his own Blood Angels (said to be the most long-lived ASTARTES) - there's no living marine (but maybe a few dreadnoughts) even in his own Chapter who can remember Dante's recruitment or rise to Chapter Master.
Inquisitors like Eisenhorn will look middle-aged at age 350 and can expect to reach 700 thanks to the expensive Rejuvenat treatments they have access to. If they happen to be one of the combat crazy sorts they will devote a lot of their time to that, and collect everything they can including bionics and Xeno tech. Few "average" marines will get the jump on someone like that.
The Space Marines exist in a grey area concerning whether or not they are subject to the demands of an Inquisitor, and this grey area is one most Inquisitors don't cross into IMO.
To add to this, the Chapter Master entry in the codex explicitly states that CMs answer to none but themselves and each other.
The Space Marines exist in a grey area concerning whether or not they are subject to the demands of an Inquisitor, and this grey area is one most Inquisitors don't cross into IMO.
To add to this, the Chapter Master entry in the codex explicitly states that CMs answer to none but themselves and each other.
The Inquisitor still carries the will of the Emperor. He literally speaks for the father of the Astartes. Any Chapter Master asked to help with something will be duty-bound to do so or give a good reason for not helping.
And I said "ask" and "help".... No Inquisitor with a shred of wit walks into a Fortress-Monastery to demand things. He'll have a good reason for needing aid, he'll have an explanation for why the Chapter should help and he will say why it will be glorious for the Emperor and the Chapter. The Adeptus Astartes might be independent but they were created to defend humankind and the Imperium of Man. A Chapter that doesn't honor the reasons for it's own existence is useless to the Imperium. And an Inquisitor who doesn't have the diplomatic skills to ask for help in a proper manner is also useless to the Imperium.
Remember there are two types of Inquisitors, radical and puritan.
Radicals tend to be more dangerous because they are not afraid (or maybe dumb enough) to use daemon weapons and alien technology, so I would place my bets on a radical inquisitor more likely than a puritan.
The Space Marines exist in a grey area concerning whether or not they are subject to the demands of an Inquisitor, and this grey area is one most Inquisitors don't cross into IMO.
To add to this, the Chapter Master entry in the codex explicitly states that CMs answer to none but themselves and each other.
The Inquisitor still carries the will of the Emperor. He literally speaks for the father of the Astartes. Any Chapter Master asked to help with something will be duty-bound to do so or give a good reason for not helping.
And I said "ask" and "help".... No Inquisitor with a shred of wit walks into a Fortress-Monastery to demand things. He'll have a good reason for needing aid, he'll have an explanation for why the Chapter should help and he will say why it will be glorious for the Emperor and the Chapter. The Adeptus Astartes might be independent but they were created to defend humankind and the Imperium of Man. A Chapter that doesn't honor the reasons for it's own existence is useless to the Imperium. And an Inquisitor who doesn't have the diplomatic skills to ask for help in a proper manner is also useless to the Imperium.
That wasn't the scenario Void__Dragon and Ashiraya were referring to. They're talking about the situation where an Inquisitor tries to order a Chapter Master to demote or even execute one of his marines. In that situation, its hard to think of a Chapter Master that would blindly follow that order and not just use their own judgement.
Inferno pistol, then!
Or digital weapons.
Or the terrible Sword of Melta.
BlaxicanX wrote: As Know No Fear shows us, Space Marine reflexes are so quick that they can draw their weapon, aim for the optimal kill-shot and make it in the time it would take for people to blink.
As [insert the name of two different novels] shows us, the performance of marines vary greatly from book to book. The only suitable reference, Ciaphas Cain HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, say that Marines can bested in close combat by unaugmented humans.
Purifyingflame_7 wrote: My question here is a simple one: Assuming this Inquisitor is armed with the greatest weaponry available to any inquisitor ever, something like the Soulspear from the Blood Drinkers books that can carve its way through the very essence of a Daemon Prince like its butter, what the Hell is he going to do with it when a Space Marine can dart forward at incredible speed and snap his neck with a bare hand before the inquisitor can move?
See just above. Space marines are not always that quick.
Uh? No. Not by a long shot. I do not even know what that would mean, but most marine chapter geneseeds are decaying, with implants that start to degenerate and stuff.
They have reflexes that are way slower than those of eldars or genestealers.
Purifyingflame_7 wrote: They have trained until they are each and every one as perfect as they possibly could be.
And for some marine, “as perfect as they possibly could be” still mean “not as good as that other guy”.
Purifyingflame_7 wrote: How is a human being who only has a select few years to live and has spent more of their life learning techniques for interrogation and subterfuge going to out perform a creature that has been bred and taught a life time of war?
Superior exotic wargear and superior intelligence.
She def is not - she has a psyker in her retinue but is not herself a psyker. She would have problems with Jurgen if she was.......
She does have a kick ass set of Artificer armour and/or force fields, her own starship and is clever enough to both know her own limitations and exploit others I can't see her fighting a Space Marine except under extreme circumstances and even then unless he is also a named character she has really powerful plot shields
All Inquisitors are at least *taught* psyker skills.
Never heard that before - they would be taught about them and how to recognise, combat etc - but you are either a psyker or your not?
They have reflexes that are way slower than those of eldars or genestealers.
One, Eldar is PLURAL, it is not written or spoken as "Eldars". Secondly, no, the reflexes of Astartes are just as fast as Eldar and Genestealers, hence why Astartes are able to butcher their way through them in combat and you have things like space marines blasting holes and escaping from Commorragh, sacking Craftworlds, or kicking the ever loving gak out of Space Hulks. Things with Genestealers only go poorly due to flanking firing vectors or TDA being TDA.
Purifyingflame_7 wrote: How is a human being who only has a select few years to live and has spent more of their life learning techniques for interrogation and subterfuge going to out perform a creature that has been bred and taught a life time of war?
Superior exotic wargear and superior intelligence.
Inquisitors are not more intelligent than Astartes in the art of war, and nor for that matter does intelligence have anything to do with reaction speeds. Astartes function in the mid microseconds of thought, compared to normal humans at best having the reaction speed of deciseconds or centiseconds. Unless the Inquisitor is a psyker or has esoteric wargear such as shields, they'll just end up with a fist through their skull within a millisecond.
Wyzilla wrote: Inquisitors are not more intelligent than Astartes in the art of war
Yeah, Astartes are more fluent in military tactics than Inquisitors, because that is the marine's job, and not at all the Inquisitor's job. But two people fighting is not a war.
Wyzilla wrote: and nor for that matter does intelligence have anything to do with reaction speeds.
No. But it sure can help when trying to kill someone rather than being killed.
[edit]Removed the sarcastic comments that were uncalled for. I got irritated at what I think is a constant overstatement of the marines capacities, which was a bit childish from me. But I still think you are overestimating the marine's reflexes here. Marines are fast, faster than unmodified humans (which, frankly, Inquisitors usually are not), and therefore way faster than they look. But they look slow. They are gorilla-like behemoths. Eldar are also way faster than they look, but eldar look fast. A fight between an eldar fighter and a marine should look like that. If only because it is way more interesting than “Since I was both stronger, tougher, faster, more skilled, and more intelligent than the eldar, I just beat her to death in two seconds”.
Well for Craftworld Eldar, the Sons of Orar ripped Alaitoc a new one with Guardsmen support and would have destroyed Alaitoc were it not for the Farseers exposing the reason behind the crusade was false. Then there's this beaut from Blood Gorgons.
Spoiler:
“As Hepshah struggled to regain his breath, the Chaos Space Marine gripped him firmly by the face, pinning his head with a delicate grip. His other hand darted, whisper quick, tapping him on the temple with a longmace. No more than a light double tap. Hepshah stopped struggling. The dark eldar was no longer recognisable from the neck up. The encounter took just seconds and by the time Hepshah’s body was discovered, Barsabbas was already gone.
Moribeth found Draaz hung from the rafters. She found Fhaisor and Amul Teth reclining behind a bombed out dust buggy. In the open, tossed amongst the debris, was a stove boiler that leaked blood. She did not open the coal hatch, but presumed it to contain the remains of Sabhira. She did not feel fear – only indignity. Snarling, she stalked through the ruins. Occasionally she stopped to crack her whip meaningfully, with a belligerent pop. It was a declaratory snap and most knew to run when they heard it.
‘You can’t hide from me,’ she sang. She had always been the predator. Ever since her young maiden years, Moribeth had accompanied her cousins on slave raids. This was second nature to her. In her free hand, hidden behind her back, was a neural blade gifted to her by her kabal’s mistress. The poison it secreted overloaded the pain nerves in living creatures. She pitied anything that crossed her path.
‘Come out, come out,’ she cooed.
‘Here I am.’ The voice sounded like slabs of rockcrete grinding together. A shadow fell across her. Moribeth turned and her confidence dissipated. She slashed her neural whip low, but the tip snapped listlessly as it connected with ceramite. With a speed that surprised her, the horned warrior slapped the top of her head with his palm. There was a pop as her spine compressed and vertebrae slipped out of joint. Moribeth died still believing herself a predator.
‘Face me!’ Vhaal howled, raising his arms into the air in challenge. A muzzle flashed in the distance. Low and muffled. The bolter’s bark. Vhaal, second son of the kabal, fell unceremoniously through a screen paper window, his feet stiffening awkwardly in the air. He was already dead before he landed, felled by a single shot.
The monkeigh warrior appeared indifferent to his threats. He walked into and through the caprid fence that separated them, splintering the wood with his shins and thighs.
‘Catch me to kill me!’ Sindul spat. He leapt up against the sheer rock wall behind him, limbs splayed against the surface, and began to scarper up the vertical drop. He used his lacerator gloves, dragging the hooked claws of his fists for purchase. He shot up the wall like a rodent, scaling twelve metres in a matter of seconds before bounding backwards into the air. A bolter round missed him as he leapt. He landed behind the monkeigh, slashing his lacerators as he sailed overhead. But the horned warrior was faster than Sindul had estimated. It was a grave error. The monkeigh spun with practiced fluidity, pouncing with all the weight and drive of a quarter tonne primate. Sindul rolled aside, but not fast enough. The monkeigh snagged him with its paw and dragged him to the ground by his ankles. Sindul tried to regain his gyroscopic balance, but his thin ankle was locked in a hammer grip of ceramite.
‘I don’t need to kill you yet,’ growled the Traitor Marine as Sindul thrashed like a hooked fish. Dragging his splinter pistol free from its chest holster, the dark eldar began to fire. The first shot hammered a toxic splinter into heavy chest plate. The monkeigh dodged the second with a little dip of his head.
‘Stop, now.’ With that, the monkeigh backhanded him with steel-bound hands. Sindul’s head snapped violently off to the right and he blacked out.” / Blood Gorgons, p.75 & 76 - ** ... “When Sindul collapsed from exhaustion, Barsabbas simply draped him across one arm. The dark eldar weighed little more than his bolter.” / Blood Gorgons, p.84 - **
Then there was Elysius from the Tome of Fire trilogy, (in Firedrake) was captured by the Dark Eldar and dragged kicking in screaming into Commorragh. He then killed a Dark Eldar Wych Cult leader after they had removed his bionic arm/power fist and out of armor. Also, his Cronzius was broken and there was no powerfield, but it miraculously reactived for a second as he bashed the Wych's head in, likely thanks to the GEOM providing a miracle. And they "adopted" a Black Dragon they found in the arena who had lived there for at least several years, and was a CQC beast.
Well, to be fair, Lelith is one of thes best close combat warriors in the galaxy. I would not mind being tortured by her, she can bring it
And to the point of Eldar and SM speeds, Eldar are definitely faster. Eldar are actually really good in CC too. Like the Orars Sepulchre. I believe an Ultramarine Sergeant killed a dozen aspect warriors before his broken body was finally killed. He made his mark as a hero that day, as he gave just enough time for his squad to accomplish their objective (whatever that was). Killing a dozen aspect warriors is a tremendous feat, even for a SM sergeant.
Well, to be fair, Lelith is one of thes best close combat warriors in the galaxy. I would not mind being tortured by her, she can bring it
And to the point of Eldar and SM speeds, Eldar are definitely faster. Eldar are actually really good in CC too. Like the Orars Sepulchre. I believe an Ultramarine Sergeant killed a dozen aspect warriors before his broken body was finally killed. He made his mark as a hero that day, as he gave just enough time for his squad to accomplish their objective (whatever that was). Killing a dozen aspect warriors is a tremendous feat, even for a SM sergeant.
No they aren't, they're equally fast as otherwise Astartes would be literally incapable of fighting them. Eldar react in microseconds to low milliseconds, just like astartes. You can't have something that works in the centiseconds go up against something reacting on a level of milliseconds or microseconds, it's on a completely different level and would be literally untouchable- viewing everyone else as just moving in slow motion.
Wyzilla wrote: Well for Craftworld Eldar, the Sons of Orar ripped Alaitoc a new one with Guardsmen support and would have destroyed Alaitoc were it not for the Farseers exposing the reason behind the crusade was false. Then there's this beaut from Blood Gorgons.
Protagonists beating antagonists? Incredible. Should I get Cain back to explain to you how Khorne berserkers are weaklings?
I mean they are big and burly, not slender and light. Therefore, they look like they would be slow, not fast.
(But thanks to you, I noticed the other possible meaning of what I said, and I like it )
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyzilla wrote: No they aren't, they're equally fast as otherwise Astartes would be literally incapable of fighting them.
Big melee does not works like that: the one with the fastest reflex is not necessarily the winner. Having fast reflexes sure help, but being a good fencer helps too, being strong and though and enduring too, and chance also plays a role.
Space Marines are soldiers built on an assembly line. They get their gene seed and a pretty set and standard series of enhancements. A space marine is a space marine is a space marine. Any space marine is going to wipe the floor with an unenhanced human, fight another space marine to a draw(as they are both equal) and get killed pretty easily against anything nastier.
Enhanced humans can be as strong as space marines, they can be stronger. Luther, Ko Phaeron and several other characters in the 40k universe are as strong or stronger than a marine. Enhancing a human without the geneseed costs more and can end with some complications, but there are still lots of enhanced humans running around the galaxy.
Inquisitors don't come in different flavors. No each and every one is different. Some are completely unenhanced, and would die very quickly. Even most of the enhanced humans would probably die. They might be faster, stronger, tougher than your normal human but they wouldnt be enough to match up against a marine. Some though, some would be able to win and win pretty easily against a marine.
Well, to be fair, Lelith is one of thes best close combat warriors in the galaxy. I would not mind being tortured by her, she can bring it
And to the point of Eldar and SM speeds, Eldar are definitely faster. Eldar are actually really good in CC too. Like the Orars Sepulchre. I believe an Ultramarine Sergeant killed a dozen aspect warriors before his broken body was finally killed. He made his mark as a hero that day, as he gave just enough time for his squad to accomplish their objective (whatever that was). Killing a dozen aspect warriors is a tremendous feat, even for a SM sergeant.
No they aren't, they're equally fast as otherwise Astartes would be literally incapable of fighting them. Eldar react in microseconds to low milliseconds, just like astartes. You can't have something that works in the centiseconds go up against something reacting on a level of milliseconds or microseconds, it's on a completely different level and would be literally untouchable- viewing everyone else as just moving in slow motion.
Eldar are slightly faster than SM's, slightly. SM's are a lot stronger though and given how fast they are while possessing that strength is extraordinary. Eldar can contest with SM's in combat. That's why SM prefer using tactics instead of brute force with Eldar.
Exergy wrote: Space Marines are soldiers built on an assembly line.
No. Each chapter has its own initiation rituals and everything, some are more like handicraft than industrial.
Exergy wrote: They get their gene seed and a pretty set and standard series of enhancements. A space marine is a space marine is a space marine. Any space marine is going to wipe the floor with an unenhanced human, fight another space marine to a draw(as they are both equal) and get killed pretty easily against anything nastier.
No. Because they were different before the enhancement, they stay different after. We have tons of examples of marines that are better than other marines.
Well for Craftworld Eldar, the Sons of Orar ripped Alaitoc a new one with Guardsmen support and would have destroyed Alaitoc were it not for the Farseers exposing the reason behind the crusade was false. Then there's this beaut from Blood Gorgons.
Spoiler:
“As Hepshah struggled to regain his breath, the Chaos Space Marine gripped him firmly by the face, pinning his head with a delicate grip. His other hand darted, whisper quick, tapping him on the temple with a longmace. No more than a light double tap. Hepshah stopped struggling. The dark eldar was no longer recognisable from the neck up. The encounter took just seconds and by the time Hepshah’s body was discovered, Barsabbas was already gone.
Moribeth found Draaz hung from the rafters. She found Fhaisor and Amul Teth reclining behind a bombed out dust buggy. In the open, tossed amongst the debris, was a stove boiler that leaked blood. She did not open the coal hatch, but presumed it to contain the remains of Sabhira. She did not feel fear – only indignity. Snarling, she stalked through the ruins. Occasionally she stopped to crack her whip meaningfully, with a belligerent pop. It was a declaratory snap and most knew to run when they heard it.
‘You can’t hide from me,’ she sang. She had always been the predator. Ever since her young maiden years, Moribeth had accompanied her cousins on slave raids. This was second nature to her. In her free hand, hidden behind her back, was a neural blade gifted to her by her kabal’s mistress. The poison it secreted overloaded the pain nerves in living creatures. She pitied anything that crossed her path.
‘Come out, come out,’ she cooed.
‘Here I am.’ The voice sounded like slabs of rockcrete grinding together. A shadow fell across her. Moribeth turned and her confidence dissipated. She slashed her neural whip low, but the tip snapped listlessly as it connected with ceramite. With a speed that surprised her, the horned warrior slapped the top of her head with his palm. There was a pop as her spine compressed and vertebrae slipped out of joint. Moribeth died still believing herself a predator.
‘Face me!’ Vhaal howled, raising his arms into the air in challenge. A muzzle flashed in the distance. Low and muffled. The bolter’s bark. Vhaal, second son of the kabal, fell unceremoniously through a screen paper window, his feet stiffening awkwardly in the air. He was already dead before he landed, felled by a single shot.
The monkeigh warrior appeared indifferent to his threats. He walked into and through the caprid fence that separated them, splintering the wood with his shins and thighs.
‘Catch me to kill me!’ Sindul spat. He leapt up against the sheer rock wall behind him, limbs splayed against the surface, and began to scarper up the vertical drop. He used his lacerator gloves, dragging the hooked claws of his fists for purchase. He shot up the wall like a rodent, scaling twelve metres in a matter of seconds before bounding backwards into the air. A bolter round missed him as he leapt. He landed behind the monkeigh, slashing his lacerators as he sailed overhead. But the horned warrior was faster than Sindul had estimated. It was a grave error. The monkeigh spun with practiced fluidity, pouncing with all the weight and drive of a quarter tonne primate. Sindul rolled aside, but not fast enough. The monkeigh snagged him with its paw and dragged him to the ground by his ankles. Sindul tried to regain his gyroscopic balance, but his thin ankle was locked in a hammer grip of ceramite.
‘I don’t need to kill you yet,’ growled the Traitor Marine as Sindul thrashed like a hooked fish. Dragging his splinter pistol free from its chest holster, the dark eldar began to fire. The first shot hammered a toxic splinter into heavy chest plate. The monkeigh dodged the second with a little dip of his head.
‘Stop, now.’ With that, the monkeigh backhanded him with steel-bound hands. Sindul’s head snapped violently off to the right and he blacked out.” / Blood Gorgons, p.75 & 76 - **
...
“When Sindul collapsed from exhaustion, Barsabbas simply draped him across one arm. The dark eldar weighed little more than his bolter.” / Blood Gorgons, p.84 - **
Then there was Elysius from the Tome of Fire trilogy, (in Firedrake) was captured by the Dark Eldar and dragged kicking in screaming into Commorragh. He then killed a Dark Eldar Wych Cult leader after they had removed his bionic arm/power fist and out of armor. Also, his Cronzius was broken and there was no powerfield, but it miraculously reactived for a second as he bashed the Wych's head in, likely thanks to the GEOM providing a miracle. And they "adopted" a Black Dragon they found in the arena who had lived there for at least several years, and was a CQC beast.
I'm not seeing anything pointing to Marines on average being as fast as trained Eldar warriors.
No they aren't, they're equally fast as otherwise Astartes would be literally incapable of fighting them. Eldar react in microseconds to low milliseconds, just like astartes. You can't have something that works in the centiseconds go up against something reacting on a level of milliseconds or microseconds, it's on a completely different level and would be literally untouchable- viewing everyone else as just moving in slow motion.
Which is why, despite Joe Frazier's superior speed, Foreman couldn't fight him, right? Oh wait, George Foreman beat his ass.
No one says Eldar are so much faster than Marines that the Marines can't keep up.
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Exergy wrote: Space Marines are soldiers built on an assembly line. They get their gene seed and a pretty set and standard series of enhancements. A space marine is a space marine is a space marine. Any space marine is going to wipe the floor with an unenhanced human, fight another space marine to a draw(as they are both equal) and get killed pretty easily against anything nastier.
Enhanced humans can be as strong as space marines, they can be stronger. Luther, Ko Phaeron and several other characters in the 40k universe are as strong or stronger than a marine. Enhancing a human without the geneseed costs more and can end with some complications, but there are still lots of enhanced humans running around the galaxy.
Inquisitors don't come in different flavors. No each and every one is different. Some are completely unenhanced, and would die very quickly. Even most of the enhanced humans would probably die. They might be faster, stronger, tougher than your normal human but they wouldnt be enough to match up against a marine. Some though, some would be able to win and win pretty easily against a marine.
Now this is just ridiculous.
Space Marines can vary just like humans. It's why Arjac Rockfist and Abby the Despoiler can be huge even by the standards of Space Marines.
Wyzilla wrote: Well for Craftworld Eldar, the Sons of Orar ripped Alaitoc a new one with Guardsmen support and would have destroyed Alaitoc were it not for the Farseers exposing the reason behind the crusade was false. Then there's this beaut from Blood Gorgons.
Protagonists beating antagonists? Incredible. Should I get Cain back to explain to you how Khorne berserkers are weaklings?
1) The Sons of Orar WERE the antagonists.
2) The Cain books are a gak source of any information-
2a) They widely contradict other information, especially Sister of Battle and Genestealers.
2b) They're a satire of 40k, begging the question of their validity.
2c) Cain was probably a Living Saint, IE empowered by the GEOM and by no means an example of an average human being.
3) Khorne Berserkers are only example of extremely gakky combatants, considering the entire style of Khorne is 'raging berserker', meaning they probably telegraph their moves and probably lack any form of combat to begin with.
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Wyzilla wrote: No they aren't, they're equally fast as otherwise Astartes would be literally incapable of fighting them.
Big melee does not works like that: the one with the fastest reflex is not necessarily the winner. Having fast reflexes sure help, but being a good fencer helps too, being strong and though and enduring too, and chance also plays a role.
Y'know, if you actually don't know anything about a subject, maybe you shouldn't even talk about? Might be a good idea for you, considering strength has little at all to do with fencing/melee fighting, and is largely down entirely to speed, form, and skill/experience. The problem also that you don't even seem to comprehend on any level is how fast Eldar and Astartes are. Do you even know what microseconds are? Because if you don't, it's pointless talking to you as you cannot actually grasp the point and why Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar in order to actually fight them 1 on 1.
Also, more speed/melee quotes.
The bout lasted sixteen minutes. That in itself would have made it one of the longest sparring sessions any of them had ever known. What made it more remarkable was the fact that in that time, there was no pause, no hesitation, no cessation. Erebus and Lucius flew at one another, and rang blows off one another’s blades at a rate of three or four a second. It was relentless, extraordinary, a dizzying blur of dancing bodies and gleaming swords that rang on and on like a dream.” / Horus Rising, p.588 - **
“As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way. If he had ducked half a heartbeat later, his head would have been an exploding fountain of gore and bone.” / The Space Wolf Omnibus, p.269 - **
“Amakyre dodged backwards and let himself fall from the platform rather than face Veq’s blade, honed from the heart of a star and white-hot to all but Veq himself.
Gunfire erupted again from below. Veq swatted away a score of bullets from the Obliterator and caught three more with his free hand, throwing them back down to the floor of the bridge with a curse. The young one, the most dangerous, fired a well-aimed shot at his temple, but Veq flicked his head to the side and the silenced bolt flittered past him.
Veq took two steps and leapt, dropping through the lattice of bullet trails to land directly in front of the Obliterator whose every weapon was blazing at him from point-blank range. The star-sword cut through the air as Veq met every bullet, sending a sparkling fan of deflected fire in every direction.
The hulking Obliterator reeled as several of its own bullets punched through its biomechanical body. The flesh of one arm became fluid, extruded, and solidified into a blade of bone with gnawing teeth at the cutting edge. Veq ducked the first blow and parried the second, shearing the first blade in two as a barbed whip, tipped with a lamprey-like mouth, lashed from the Obliterator’s other arm. Veq grabbed the lash, wrapped it round his fist, and used it to swing the Obliterator hard into the wall by the doorway.
Armour split and cracked. Corrupted blood spilled. Veq paused to dodge more bolter fire from the other Word Bearers who were falling back through the doorway.” / Daemon Worldgons, p.472 - **
Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar to engage them in melee, a gap in reflexes in a swordfight between two human combatants might be amendable, but in the case of the Eldar (who can get really lulzy by doing things like dodge lasguns, bolters, etc), it would be like trying to kill Neo with a normal human in the Matrix. The attacker would simply be moving in slow motion to the perception of Neo/Eldar, allowing them to easily dodge every blow and round fired. Plus Astartes have to make up for their bulk, that while they wear power armor like a second skin due tot he black carapace, they still weigh over 300 kilos and suffer limited mobility in tight areas. Yet they still beat Eldar in melee battle.
Pier Gerlofs Donia might have disagreed with Skallagrim on how much strength can impact a fight.
Given that Pier Gerlofs Donia was a pirate who fought in countless battles and Skallagrim isn't, I'm more inclined to believe him.
Oh, and his assessment of armoured combat is borderline disingenuous. Want to know what longsword fencing involved when armoured? Wrestling, with the sword as a lever. Which strength definitely helps with.
Liked the boxing comparison though, that was funny. Foreman was a top guy by virtue of solely being big and strong. He wasn't a particularly skilled boxer.
Oh, and in the very video you posted he conceded that strength was still an advantage.
Wyzilla wrote: Well for Craftworld Eldar, the Sons of Orar ripped Alaitoc a new one with Guardsmen support and would have destroyed Alaitoc were it not for the Farseers exposing the reason behind the crusade was false. Then there's this beaut from Blood Gorgons.
Protagonists beating antagonists? Incredible. Should I get Cain back to explain to you how Khorne berserkers are weaklings?
1) The Sons of Orar WERE the antagonists.
2) The Cain books are a gak source of any information-
2a) They widely contradict other information, especially Sister of Battle and Genestealers.
2b) They're a satire of 40k, begging the question of their validity.
2c) Cain was probably a Living Saint, IE empowered by the GEOM and by no means an example of an average human being.
3) Khorne Berserkers are only example of extremely gakky combatants, considering the entire style of Khorne is 'raging berserker', meaning they probably telegraph their moves and probably lack any form of combat to begin with.
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Wyzilla wrote: No they aren't, they're equally fast as otherwise Astartes would be literally incapable of fighting them.
Big melee does not works like that: the one with the fastest reflex is not necessarily the winner. Having fast reflexes sure help, but being a good fencer helps too, being strong and though and enduring too, and chance also plays a role.
Y'know, if you actually don't know anything about a subject, maybe you shouldn't even talk about? Might be a good idea for you, considering strength has little at all to do with fencing/melee fighting, and is largely down entirely to speed, form, and skill/experience. The problem also that you don't even seem to comprehend on any level is how fast Eldar and Astartes are. Do you even know what microseconds are? Because if you don't, it's pointless talking to you as you cannot actually grasp the point and why Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar in order to actually fight them 1 on 1.
Also, more speed/melee quotes.
The bout lasted sixteen minutes. That in itself would have made it one of the longest sparring sessions any of them had ever known. What made it more remarkable was the fact that in that time, there was no pause, no hesitation, no cessation. Erebus and Lucius flew at one another, and rang blows off one another’s blades at a rate of three or four a second. It was relentless, extraordinary, a dizzying blur of dancing bodies and gleaming swords that rang on and on like a dream.” / Horus Rising, p.588 - **
“As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way. If he had ducked half a heartbeat later, his head would have been an exploding fountain of gore and bone.” / The Space Wolf Omnibus, p.269 - **
“Amakyre dodged backwards and let himself fall from the platform rather than face Veq’s blade, honed from the heart of a star and white-hot to all but Veq himself.
Gunfire erupted again from below. Veq swatted away a score of bullets from the Obliterator and caught three more with his free hand, throwing them back down to the floor of the bridge with a curse. The young one, the most dangerous, fired a well-aimed shot at his temple, but Veq flicked his head to the side and the silenced bolt flittered past him.
Veq took two steps and leapt, dropping through the lattice of bullet trails to land directly in front of the Obliterator whose every weapon was blazing at him from point-blank range. The star-sword cut through the air as Veq met every bullet, sending a sparkling fan of deflected fire in every direction.
The hulking Obliterator reeled as several of its own bullets punched through its biomechanical body. The flesh of one arm became fluid, extruded, and solidified into a blade of bone with gnawing teeth at the cutting edge. Veq ducked the first blow and parried the second, shearing the first blade in two as a barbed whip, tipped with a lamprey-like mouth, lashed from the Obliterator’s other arm. Veq grabbed the lash, wrapped it round his fist, and used it to swing the Obliterator hard into the wall by the doorway.
Armour split and cracked. Corrupted blood spilled. Veq paused to dodge more bolter fire from the other Word Bearers who were falling back through the doorway.” / Daemon Worldgons, p.472 - **
Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar to engage them in melee, a gap in reflexes in a swordfight between two human combatants might be amendable, but in the case of the Eldar (who can get really lulzy by doing things like dodge lasguns, bolters, etc), it would be like trying to kill Neo with a normal human in the Matrix. The attacker would simply be moving in slow motion to the perception of Neo/Eldar, allowing them to easily dodge every blow and round fired. Plus Astartes have to make up for their bulk, that while they wear power armor like a second skin due tot he black carapace, they still weigh over 300 kilos and suffer limited mobility in tight areas. Yet they still beat Eldar in melee battle.
This is mere speculation.
A couple years ago, some guy at my school beat the hell out of some really fast dark skinned dude. You don't have to be the fastest to win in melee. As I have mentioned, a normal SM may be slower than an Eldar warrior, but they have the strength and toughness to make up, not to mention great armour.
The Cain books are a gak source of any information-
2a) They widely contradict other information, especially Sister of Battle and Genestealers.
2b) They're a satire of 40k, begging the question of their validity.
2c) Cain was probably a Living Saint, IE empowered by the GEOM and by no means an example of an average human being.
3) Khorne Berserkers are only example of extremely gakky combatants, considering the entire style of Khorne is 'raging berserker', meaning they probably telegraph their moves and probably lack any form of combat to begin with.
They are about as accurate as any other BL publication, satire or no.
The one area in which a Single Sororitas is depicted is often a source of huge debate and criticism – unfairly in mu view – compare that particular character to those in the excellent fiction By Sister Sydney which is also better than many BL works but shows the Imperium in a different more Abnett / Mitchel way….. EVERY other depcition of the Sororitas is pretty much exactly what you would expect - fanatical, skilled and formidable warriors - maybe a bit too fanaitical in some cirmcumstances but all true believers and who are hugely respected by everyone, except the in universe author - and thats only because they tend to be too keen to get into combat and drag him in.
Genestealers - what element is wrong in the Cain novels?
Cain may have been a Living Saint - if the GEOM has a sense of humour - which is unlikely but possible - note that both Cain and Amberely are believers in Him.
Khorne Beserkers are horrobly scary to fight I would imagine - they don't care whose blood flows and are fast, strong, clad in power armour and retain formidable CC skills.
Eldar and Genestealers are extremely quick and agile, some Astartes can match them, most can't IMO
Have you read the fluff regarding the Space Marines ''blasting there way through Commaragh''? Because if you have, you are either purposely leaving out the fact that Vect was helping them out the entire time to make the Marines seem better or you didn't read into the inferences. Everything, and i mean everything, that played out well for the Marines was Vects doing.
The gate that allowed the other Space Marines in (over 500, that's half a chapter!) was left open, it's guards slain and the door was locked so it couldn't be shut. In essence, the other Space Marines wouldn't of even got INTO Commaragh without Vects say so.
Each of the Archon's leading the defense against the Marines was assassinated one by one during the battle. A ''Stay Dark Lance beam'' hit an Archon as he was ''Rampaging'' through the Marine lines killing with every thrust of his powered blade, which also stands testament to how Eldar *can* go against Marines. Admittedly he was an Archon, but they are no better then other Dark Eldar, only more trained.
When the Wyches got involved the Space Marines were torn to shreds, ''Losing half there number''. Lelith was also said to of carved apart the Marines (With nothing but plain, simple Knives) as''Warriors fell apart around her'. Then, as the Space Marines fell back, instead of giving chase and probably inflicting heavy casualties, the Wyches turned around and murdered another rival Archon.
Then Vect *let* the Marines get away with ''The Haywire fields that shackled the imperial craft were disengaged one by one'' and even had his own men Fire upon the intercepting Dark Eldar squadrons to force them to back off.
It really annoys me that people use this example quite often to justify how good Marines are, when in actual fact, the Marines were losing, very badly, until Vect let them escape. I am not sure about the other fluff from Black Library but at least in this, you are drastically over selling your beloved Space Marines.
Also, For the Record, The Path series was a terrible representation of the Craft World Eldar. Gav Thorpe portrayed the craftworld as having a population in the thousands, then said in an interview that he imagined that was how many Eldar lived on a ''Large'' Craftworld such as Aliatoc. This is quite simply wrong, otherwise that would put the entire racial population at low millions, while Dark Eldar reside in the Trillions! So surfice to say, while most Black Library books are bad at there portrayals, the Path series was decidedly terrible. And a boring series to boot...
One of the mopre impressive ellemtsn of that incident in Commaragh was how long the Astartes aboard the captured Strike Cruiser held out - oh its definatly a master play by Vect though Risky but beautifully executed.
An Archon is to be fair soo much more than a run of the mill vat born DE warrior....
A couple years ago, some guy at my school beat the hell out of some really fast dark skinned dude. You don't have to be the fastest to win in melee. As I have mentioned, a normal SM may be slower than an Eldar warrior, but they have the strength and toughness to make up, not to mention great armour.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Have you read the fluff regarding the Space Marines ''blasting there way through Commaragh''? Because if you have, you are either purposely leaving out the fact that Vect was helping them out the entire time to make the Marines seem better or you didn't read into the inferences. Everything, and i mean everything, that played out well for the Marines was Vects doing.
The gate that allowed the other Space Marines in (over 500, that's half a chapter!) was left open, it's guards slain and the door was locked so it couldn't be shut. In essence, the other Space Marines wouldn't of even got INTO Commaragh without Vects say so.
Each of the Archon's leading the defense against the Marines was assassinated one by one during the battle. A ''Stay Dark Lance beam'' hit an Archon as he was ''Rampaging'' through the Marine lines killing with every thrust of his powered blade, which also stands testament to how Eldar *can* go against Marines. Admittedly he was an Archon, but they are no better then other Dark Eldar, only more trained.
When the Wyches got involved the Space Marines were torn to shreds, ''Losing half there number''. Lelith was also said to of carved apart the Marines (With nothing but plain, simple Knives) as''Warriors fell apart around her'. Then, as the Space Marines fell back, instead of giving chase and probably inflicting heavy casualties, the Wyches turned around and murdered another rival Archon.
Then Vect *let* the Marines get away with ''The Haywire fields that shackled the imperial craft were disengaged one by one'' and even had his own men Fire upon the intercepting Dark Eldar squadrons to force them to back off.
It really annoys me that people use this example quite often to justify how good Marines are, when in actual fact, the Marines were losing, very badly, until Vect let them escape. I am not sure about the other fluff from Black Library but at least in this, you are drastically over selling your beloved Space Marines.
Also, For the Record, The Path series was a terrible representation of the Craft World Eldar. Gav Thorpe portrayed the craftworld as having a population in the thousands, then said in an interview that he imagined that was how many Eldar lived on a ''Large'' Craftworld such as Aliatoc. This is quite simply wrong, otherwise that would put the entire racial population at low millions, while Dark Eldar reside in the Trillions! So surfice to say, while most Black Library books are bad at there portrayals, the Path series was decidedly terrible. And a boring series to boot...
(Sorry for off topic)
I apologize if I assume, but I believe you inferred an Archon is just an Eldar warrior with better training? Archon are much better than that dude. They are ruthless unrivalled warriors and often have to fend off dozens of assassinations in their lifetime. You don't become an Archon without extreme and brilliant combat finesse. I'm sure an Archon could cut down SM's by the dozens but regular Dark Eldar wouldn't come close to that.
My opinion: throw 40 marines at 100 DE, it's a fight.
A couple years ago, some guy at my school beat the hell out of some really fast dark skinned dude. You don't have to be the fastest to win in melee. As I have mentioned, a normal SM may be slower than an Eldar warrior, but they have the strength and toughness to make up, not to mention great armour.
Was, was that part really relevant?
Oh, so now you think I'm racist? Dark skinned people on average are faster than most other people. But let's not veer off topic.
[edit]Removed the sarcastic comments that were uncalled for. I got irritated at what I think is a constant overstatement of the marines capacities, which was a bit childish from me. But I still think you are overestimating the marine's reflexes here. Marines are fast, faster than unmodified humans (which, frankly, Inquisitors usually are not), and therefore way faster than they look. But they look slow. They are gorilla-like behemoths. Eldar are also way faster than they look, but eldar look fast. A fight between an eldar fighter and a marine should look like that. If only because it is way more interesting than “Since I was both stronger, tougher, faster, more skilled, and more intelligent than the eldar, I just beat her to death in two seconds”.
You really want to support a comic where a Terminator tanks TONS of Dark Eldar fire and then oneshots them in return with his heavy flamer?
Interesting.
I do quite like that comic though. They got Marine size right.
Wyzilla wrote: 2) The Cain books are a gak source of any information-
2a) They widely contradict other information, especially Sister of Battle and Genestealers.
Yeah, like every book do. You just happen not to like Cain's version.
Wyzilla wrote: 2b) They're a satire of 40k, begging the question of their validity.
They are humorous and satirical story set in 40k, but they happen in 40k, not in a world fashioned as a satire of 40k.
Wyzilla wrote: 2c) Cain was probably a Living Saint, IE empowered by the GEOM and by no means an example of an average human being.
I think that theory is ridiculous because there is nothing backing it. Some people have different interpretation of the relative power level of stuff in 40k. And some people that write official stuff disagree with you. Just deal with it rather than invent crazy theory to rationalize this back into your interpretation.
Else I am going to invoke godly intervention in every quote from Black Library that you use, ever. Yeah, I can do that too.
Wyzilla wrote: 3) Khorne Berserkers are only example of extremely gakky combatants, considering the entire style of Khorne is 'raging berserker', meaning they probably telegraph their moves and probably lack any form of combat to begin with.
Uh, yeah, certainly…
That just goes against everything I ever read about Khorne and its followers, I guess.
Wyzilla wrote: Y'know, if you actually don't know anything about a subject, maybe you shouldn't even talk about?
Thank you for that sound advice.
Wyzilla wrote: The problem also that you don't even seem to comprehend on any level is how fast Eldar and Astartes are. Do you even know what microseconds are? Because if you don't, it's pointless talking to you as you cannot actually grasp the point and why Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar in order to actually fight them 1 on 1.
Yeah, great, the problem is that I am too stupid. Therefore I do not understand the intricate arcane of physics of some made-up scy-fy magic universe. Sorry about that. Good thing you actually know the truth, and therefore can enlighten me about, well, the fact a microsecond is 10^-6 second. Which changes everything, really.
Mr Morden wrote: Genestealers - what element is wrong in the Cain novels?
Cain kill some. Maybe his companion do so too. You cannot have that, only marines are allowed to kill genestealer .
Lord Tarkin wrote: Oh, so now you think I'm racist? Dark skinned people on average are faster than most other people. But let's not veer off topic.
Never heard about that, and it seems very dubious. Extremely dubious.
I mean, especially since there are so many different types that would qualify as “dark skinned”…
Ashiraya wrote: You really want to support a comic where a Terminator tanks TONS of Dark Eldar fire and then oneshots them in return with his heavy flamer?
Not a terminator. Au tauminator.
I said that part was a good representation of how a fight between a dark eldar and a marine should go: one is way faster and more skilled, the other one is much tougher and stronger. Do you disagree? Or do you want to infer from that that I consider everything ever portrayed in this unofficial webcomic as the only official canon? I am not sure what you mean here.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I said that part was a good representation of how a fight between a dark eldar and a marine should go: one is way faster and the other one is much tougher and stronger.
That is my opinion, that is what is explicitly said by Sergent Johnson in the comic, and therefore that comic is a very good illustration of how I consider thing. But you are of course entitled to disagree with me and the unofficial webcomic.
Depends on the Inquisitor. Not all inquisitors are martial, not all martial inquisitors are duelists, etc.
When confronted face to face with a Space Marine, some inquisitors would become splack in an instant (and it's unrealistic to expect a hunched over old man with a keyboard for hands to try anyway) to try to face said soldier to begin with),while others would butcher the Astartes with casual ease. Still others would struggle against them and maybe lose, maybe win. Others would put up a hopeless fight, while others would have an assured, but hard victory.
Inquisitors are, as a general rule, quite unique in nature.
That is my opinion, that is what is explicitly said by Sergent Johnson in the comic, and therefore that comic is a very good illustration of how I consider thing. But you are of course entitled to disagree with me and the unofficial webcomic.
Sergeant Johnson was not facing your average Deldar, either.
Melissia wrote: Depends on the Inquisitor. Not all inquisitors are martial, not all martial inquisitors are duelists, etc.
When confronted face to face with a Space Marine, some inquisitors would become splack in an instant (and it's unrealistic to expect a hunched over old man with a keyboard for hands to try anyway) to try to face said soldier to begin with),while others would butcher the Astartes with casual ease.
The Inquisition on a member by member basis is one of the most varied organizations in the Imperium. They aren't regimented like the Imperial Guard or Space Marines. Every one can be very different.
Wyzilla wrote: 2) The Cain books are a gak source of any information-
2a) They widely contradict other information, especially Sister of Battle and Genestealers.
Yeah, like every book do. You just happen not to like Cain's version.
Wyzilla wrote: 2b) They're a satire of 40k, begging the question of their validity.
They are humorous and satirical story set in 40k, but they happen in 40k, not in a world fashioned as a satire of 40k.
Wyzilla wrote: 2c) Cain was probably a Living Saint, IE empowered by the GEOM and by no means an example of an average human being.
I think that theory is ridiculous because there is nothing backing it. Some people have different interpretation of the relative power level of stuff in 40k. And some people that write official stuff disagree with you. Just deal with it rather than invent crazy theory to rationalize this back into your interpretation.
Else I am going to invoke godly intervention in every quote from Black Library that you use, ever. Yeah, I can do that too.
Wyzilla wrote: 3) Khorne Berserkers are only example of extremely gakky combatants, considering the entire style of Khorne is 'raging berserker', meaning they probably telegraph their moves and probably lack any form of combat to begin with.
Uh, yeah, certainly…
That just goes against everything I ever read about Khorne and its followers, I guess.
Wyzilla wrote: Y'know, if you actually don't know anything about a subject, maybe you shouldn't even talk about?
Thank you for that sound advice.
Wyzilla wrote: The problem also that you don't even seem to comprehend on any level is how fast Eldar and Astartes are. Do you even know what microseconds are? Because if you don't, it's pointless talking to you as you cannot actually grasp the point and why Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar in order to actually fight them 1 on 1.
Yeah, great, the problem is that I am too stupid. Therefore I do not understand the intricate arcane of physics of some made-up scy-fy magic universe. Sorry about that. Good thing you actually know the truth, and therefore can enlighten me about, well, the fact a microsecond is 10^-6 second. Which changes everything, really.
Mr Morden wrote: Genestealers - what element is wrong in the Cain novels?
Cain kill some. Maybe his companion do so too. You cannot have that, only marines are allowed to kill genestealer .
Lord Tarkin wrote: Oh, so now you think I'm racist? Dark skinned people on average are faster than most other people. But let's not veer off topic.
Never heard about that, and it seems very dubious. Extremely dubious.
I mean, especially since there are so many different types that would qualify as “dark skinned”…
Ashiraya wrote: You really want to support a comic where a Terminator tanks TONS of Dark Eldar fire and then oneshots them in return with his heavy flamer?
Not a terminator. Au tauminator.
I said that part was a good representation of how a fight between a dark eldar and a marine should go: one is way faster and more skilled, the other one is much tougher and stronger. Do you disagree? Or do you want to infer from that that I consider everything ever portrayed in this unofficial webcomic as the only official canon? I am not sure what you mean here.
Dubious? What's so dubious? I believe you know who I mean. Black people. They are factually faster than white people. I'm a sporty guy. I remember playing B-ball with a black girl and she kicked my ass, alongside her other friends (most who were dudes though). Then I played football agaisnt several black guys and there, I kicked ass.
My point. I am extremely good at football. The black guy I was lined up against was sooooo much faster than me, but I played the game better. I won because I knew how to play him.
Space Marines are slower than DE, but they are much better at war, they are much better in combat. DE can be as fast as they want but SM's will predict their movements. Keep in mind that SM have superior vision so they will be able to keep up with the DE's blurring motion.
1) Drop the reference to race or color, it makes no difference. Unless you are saying All people of one such are faster then others, which is of course wrong, then it's misleading to say so. ''The other Guy i was lined up against was soooo much faster then me'' still gets the point across and is not racially insensitive.
2) This is the internet. Keep your real world applications and anecdotes to yourself, few people care and fewer still will take what you say at face value.
3) Why are you referring to an ENTIRE RACE OF TRILLIONS of Dark Eldar with a sweeping statement? Space Marines are better at war then Dark Eldar, considering the majority are slaves or parched or gangers you are right. But that is a terribly stupid and inconclusive statement. Space Marines are better at War then a Kabalite Warrior (Also Better at war? that isn't very descriptive) then that would make more sense, and also be of dubious truth.
4) Superior Vision? To who, The Dark Eldar? Because that is just plain wrong, the fluff makes a point of the Eldar Races senses being far better then any other. Or is this just another of your vague sweeping statements?
5) Can we forget about this non-cannon fan fiction? It is in no way relevent to the actual fluff, it was merely someone pointing out how they think it would go. And for the record, the best representation of Eldar vs Marines i've seen which is fair to both is the Dawn of War intro scene. Specifically 1:06-1:08
1) Drop the reference to race or color, it makes no difference. Unless you are saying All people of one such are faster then others, which is of course wrong, then it's misleading to say so. ''The other Guy i was lined up against was soooo much faster then me'' still gets the point across and is not racially insensitive.
2) This is the internet. Keep your real world applications and anecdotes to yourself, few people care and fewer still will take what you say at face value.
3) Why are you referring to an ENTIRE RACE OF TRILLIONS of Dark Eldar with a sweeping statement? Space Marines are better at war then Dark Eldar, considering the majority are slaves or parched or gangers you are right. But that is a terribly stupid and inconclusive statement. Space Marines are better at War then a Kabalite Warrior (Also Better at war? that isn't very descriptive) then that would make more sense, and also be of dubious truth.
4) Superior Vision? To who, The Dark Eldar? Because that is just plain wrong, the fluff makes a point of the Eldar Races senses being far better then any other. Or is this just another of your vague sweeping statements?
5) Can we forget about this non-cannon fan fiction? It is in no way relevent to the actual fluff, it was merely someone pointing out how they think it would go. And for the record, the best representation of Eldar vs Marines i've seen which is fair to both is the Dawn of War intro scene. Specifically 1:06-1:08
First of all, I was not saying all black people are faster then whites, only that they are on average, faster. It is fact and if you deny you are simply in denial.
Secondly, yet again, on average marines are better in combat. Yes Eldar have tremendous senses but so do SM's. They're superhuman for a reason. That Dawn of War intro was as idiotic as the one with those marines charging into a horde of orks for no reason and getting slaughtered. It does not support the way marines are explained in canon.
In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.
Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Edit: speaking of that disgrace of a 40k video, that marine took a sword through the gut and cries in pain as he dies. I had just created a thread the other day discussing a SM tolerance to pain. Conlcusion was: SM feels know pain. I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.
In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.
Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Edit: speaking of that disgrace of a 40k video, that marine took a sword through the gut and cries in pain as he dies. I had just created a thread the other day discussing a SM tolerance to pain. Conlcusion was: SM feels know pain. I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.
Also, that was a damn Farseer (Who are all extremely mighty psykers) who zapped the helmetless Marine, and he just tanked it like a boss for several seconds without even being damaged.
Also includes the usual 'paper power armour' syndrome, the dread mysteriously disappearing after his dramatic entrance...
The DoWII intro is cool, but its adherence to the fluff is questionable at best.
Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.
In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.
Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Edit: speaking of that disgrace of a 40k video, that marine took a sword through the gut and cries in pain as he dies. I had just created a thread the other day discussing a SM tolerance to pain. Conlcusion was: SM feels know pain. I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.
Also, that was a damn Farseer (Who are all extremely mighty psykers) who zapped the helmetless Marine, and he just tanked it like a boss for several seconds without even being damaged.
Also includes the usual 'paper power armour' syndrome, the dread mysteriously disappearing after his dramatic entrance...
The DoWII intro is cool, but its adherence to the fluff is questionable at best.
Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.
Exactly. What the hell happened to that dread? Kills 2 eldar and gone? Like, I enjoyed the beginning of the video. It was the combat scenes I hated.
Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!
Ashiraya wrote: Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!
Very true, although I do believe he was Lord Commander or something so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to possess an Iron Halo.
I just was dumbfounded with how weak those marines were. They were pathetic.
Ashiraya wrote: Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!
Very true, although I do believe he was Lord Commander or something so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to possess an Iron Halo.
I just was dumbfounded with how weak those marines were. They were pathetic.
He wasn't, he was a Force Commander. And the lack of actual force field, and lack of halo on the backpack, showed that he had no Iron Halo.
Ashiraya wrote: Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!
Very true, although I do believe he was Lord Commander or something so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to possess an Iron Halo.
I just was dumbfounded with how weak those marines were. They were pathetic.
He wasn't, he was a Force Commander. And the lack of actual force field, and lack of halo on the backpack, showed that he had no Iron Halo.
Oh, then I don't know how he was any tougher than that other marine who seemed to die so easily. Inconsistent to say the least.
Ashiraya wrote: Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.
Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)
There was, imo, too much plot armour for both sides. I personally believe the creators didn't want Eldar players getting their panties in a bunch because "the mean SM's" were slaughtering their army. If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby. SM's would not have even been detered with how many Eldar were present in that video. In fluff, those marines would not have split up like they did in the video. They would have stood shoulder to shoulder to keep from having one of their number overwhelmed. That heavy bolter that died in the video wouldn't have died if he had a brother by his side to give him aid. They looked like a bunch of mindless thugs charging into combat. I was disappointed to the extreme.
Ashiraya wrote: Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.
Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)
There was, imo, too much plot armour for both sides. I personally believe the creators didn't want Eldar players getting their panties in a bunch because "the mean SM's" were slaughtering their army. If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby. SM's would not have even been detered with how many Eldar were present in that video. In fluff, those marines would not have split up like they did in the video. They would have stood shoulder to shoulder to keep from having one of their number overwhelmed. That heavy bolter that died in the video wouldn't have died if he had a brother by his side to give him aid. They looked like a bunch of mindless thugs charging into combat. I was disappointed to the extreme.
It seemed more like plot armour than plot weaponry. Both sides made more mistakes and died faster than they would have fluffwise.
Ashiraya wrote: Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.
Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)
There was, imo, too much plot armour for both sides. I personally believe the creators didn't want Eldar players getting their panties in a bunch because "the mean SM's" were slaughtering their army. If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby. SM's would not have even been detered with how many Eldar were present in that video. In fluff, those marines would not have split up like they did in the video. They would have stood shoulder to shoulder to keep from having one of their number overwhelmed. That heavy bolter that died in the video wouldn't have died if he had a brother by his side to give him aid. They looked like a bunch of mindless thugs charging into combat. I was disappointed to the extreme.
It seemed more like plot armour than plot weaponry. Both sides made more mistakes and died faster than they would have fluffwise.
Pretty much, yeah. Every Dawn of War video I have ever seen, absolutely sucked. I want some ACTUAL fluff depicting videos, not some half ass clips of nonsense. Don't get me started on the video with the marines and orks.
Anyway, we are a bit off topic but there you have it. Disappointing.
Ashiraya wrote: Sergeant Johnson was not facing your average Deldar, either.
And Sergeant Johnson is not your average space marine sergeant either.
Else he would be inside Skraat's stomach. Because Skraat is not your average kroot.
BlaxicanX wrote: Not in the ones where the participants involved are interested in actually reaching a conclusion rather than merely validating their head-canon, no.
There is a stereotype that says black people run faster than white people. If there is any stereotype saying black people have faster reflexes, or are faster in general, I am not aware of it. If there is any truth behind that stereotype, I am not aware of it either.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I'm a sporty guy. I remember playing B-ball with a black girl and she kicked my ass, alongside her other friends (most who were dudes though). Then I played football agaisnt several black guys and there, I kicked ass.
I would like to be sarcastic about the fact you seem surprise a girl could beat you, but I decided to stop being sarcastic. Yeah, some girls are going to be better than you at sport. It should not even be a surprise.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Space Marines are slower than DE, but they are much better at war
I disagree, I think dark eldar have more fighting skills. They just have a frailer metabolism. For me, they kind of are the “intellectuals” of fighting: it is all in their brain and agility, not in their strength.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Yes, you refuse to see fluff that goes against your vision. That was the right word. Other, like me, accept it, and refuse the most “Space marines are ultra-super strong fluff”.
Just stop considering that you hold the ultimate truth.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.
I refuse what is written in wherever you read that. I refuse to believe a marine can survive having his face seared by plasma and appear completely fine and battle ready. Ridiculous.
Ashiraya wrote: Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.
Crush the spinal chord and every nerve in it? He has no other.
Lord Tarkin wrote: If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby.
If you cannot accept that other, including people that write official stuff, have an opinion of the fluff that is very different from ours, your should just leave the hobby, or learn to deal with it. Else, you are going to be angry every time.
That video is fluff. Just not the fluff you like, but fluff nonetheless. It certainly is not crunch.
There is ton of fluff I do not like either. But I do not pretend it is not fluff.
There is one reason why Inquisitors are superior to Space Marines on the tabletop, and that is because every single Inquisitor in the game is a special character, even the generic ones. That's it.
Most Inquisitors don't take to combat, and many who do simply surround themselves with capable fighters than do it themselves. Others will use powerful guns. It is rare than an Inquisitor gears themselves for melee, because why would they? Most of this is not actually on-topic, because the OP was trying to explain why they're better on-table, but anyway, it's unlikely that the Inquisitor would be a superior melee combatant. Give them a chance at range, however, and any combat-dedicated Inquisitor would likely have the tools to kill with impunity.
Another fun fact about Inquisitors is that they don't tend to wear helmets, just like special Space Marines (even if they do, I doubt their armour is impervious to neck torsion or being removed once they've been grabbed). To that end, an unarmed Space Marine is most certainly a match for an Inquisitor with a power weapon (I say power weapon because no special attribute does anything other than change the effect of the hit - unless it's a Daemon Weapon, in which case the Space Marine probably loses). It'd be a bit like trying to fight a gorilla with a sword, except the gorilla has military training, superior reaction time, and possibly a chainsaw.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Space Marines were created by The God-Emperor of Mankind, a man who ultimately proved himself to be a colossal idiot, to subjugate and conquer the lost worlds of Man. The Eldar were created by an ancient and incredibly advanced alien race (the Old Ones) to fight another ancient alien race turned into extremely proficient killers (the Necrons). The Eldar were created for war in exactly the same way the Orks were.
Eldar combat is all about speed and form. They are agile and highly skilled. This doesn't mean that every Eldar is better than every Astartes in close combat, it just means they have different strengths and combat styles. Astartes aren't better in every conceivable way than everyone else. That's just silly.
Ashiraya wrote: Sergeant Johnson was not facing your average Deldar, either.
And Sergeant Johnson is not your average space marine sergeant either.
Else he would be inside Skraat's stomach. Because Skraat is not your average kroot.
BlaxicanX wrote: Not in the ones where the participants involved are interested in actually reaching a conclusion rather than merely validating their head-canon, no.
There is a stereotype that says black people run faster than white people. If there is any stereotype saying black people have faster reflexes, or are faster in general, I am not aware of it. If there is any truth behind that stereotype, I am not aware of it either.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I'm a sporty guy. I remember playing B-ball with a black girl and she kicked my ass, alongside her other friends (most who were dudes though). Then I played football agaisnt several black guys and there, I kicked ass.
I would like to be sarcastic about the fact you seem surprise a girl could beat you, but I decided to stop being sarcastic. Yeah, some girls are going to be better than you at sport. It should not even be a surprise.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Space Marines are slower than DE, but they are much better at war
I disagree, I think dark eldar have more fighting skills. They just have a frailer metabolism. For me, they kind of are the “intellectuals” of fighting: it is all in their brain and agility, not in their strength.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Yes, you refuse to see fluff that goes against your vision. That was the right word. Other, like me, accept it, and refuse the most “Space marines are ultra-super strong fluff”.
Just stop considering that you hold the ultimate truth.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.
I refuse what is written in wherever you read that. I refuse to believe a marine can survive having his face seared by plasma and appear completely fine and battle ready. Ridiculous.
Ashiraya wrote: Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.
Crush the spinal chord and every nerve in it? He has no other.
Lord Tarkin wrote: If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby.
If you cannot accept that other, including people that write official stuff, have an opinion of the fluff that is very different from ours, your should just leave the hobby, or learn to deal with it. Else, you are going to be angry every time.
That video is fluff. Just not the fluff you like, but fluff nonetheless. It certainly is not crunch.
There is ton of fluff I do not like either. But I do not pretend it is not fluff.
You're post is extremely rude and offensive. Next time, be mature and tone down the slighted insults.
With that being said, I believe SM's, especially the ones in that video, should be a little tougher and just a bit more skilled than how they were displayed. I believe in a grimdark setting with only 1,000,000 SM's existing at any one time, they should be a bit more skilled. C'mon, only 1 million and here, they die like nothing to a relatively small group of Eldar? It's pathetic.
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
Frozen Ocean wrote: There is one reason why Inquisitors are superior to Space Marines on the tabletop, and that is because every single Inquisitor in the game is a special character, even the generic ones. That's it.
Most Inquisitors don't take to combat, and many who do simply surround themselves with capable fighters than do it themselves. Others will use powerful guns. It is rare than an Inquisitor gears themselves for melee, because why would they? Most of this is not actually on-topic, because the OP was trying to explain why they're better on-table, but anyway, it's unlikely that the Inquisitor would be a superior melee combatant. Give them a chance at range, however, and any combat-dedicated Inquisitor would likely have the tools to kill with impunity.
Another fun fact about Inquisitors is that they don't tend to wear helmets, just like special Space Marines (even if they do, I doubt their armour is impervious to neck torsion or being removed once they've been grabbed). To that end, an unarmed Space Marine is most certainly a match for an Inquisitor with a power weapon (I say power weapon because no special attribute does anything other than change the effect of the hit - unless it's a Daemon Weapon, in which case the Space Marine probably loses). It'd be a bit like trying to fight a gorilla with a sword, except the gorilla has military training, superior reaction time, and possibly a chainsaw.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.
Space Marines were created by The God-Emperor of Mankind, a man who ultimately proved himself to be a colossal idiot, to subjugate and conquer the lost worlds of Man. The Eldar were created by an ancient and incredibly advanced alien race (the Old Ones) to fight another ancient alien race turned into extremely proficient killers (the Necrons). The Eldar were created for war in exactly the same way the Orks were.
Eldar combat is all about speed and form. They are agile and highly skilled. This doesn't mean that every Eldar is better than every Astartes in close combat, it just means they have different strengths and combat styles. Astartes aren't better in every conceivable way than everyone else. That's just silly.
I never said astartes were better than everyone else in every conceivable way.
Like, a SM probably doesn't wanna have a shooting contest with the Tau. A SM would probably enjoy the use of a heavy bolter agaisnt orks or nids, why? Because he doesn't really wanna get in their face.
Eldar however, have the distinct advantage of being fairly decent in shooting, melee, hell even their psykers are arguably the best.
That's why marines can't rely on brute strength with Eldar, they have to beat them at strategy.
And to avoid pissing of Eldar players I will end it here.
pm713 wrote: Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
I won't complain if Aspect Warriors can match Marines in combat. That is entirely fine.
I do complain when Marines (And Eldar too, for that matter) are portrayed as incompetent, and inconsistent. Like in the trailer.
A fight between a Marine and an Aspect Warrior should not be 'who oneshots first'. It is a contest that takes time.
SM probably doesn't wanna have a shooting contest with the Tau
why not? Tau don't have great depth perception and can only match Guard etc due to high tech trickery - Astartes have high tech trickery, excellent co-ordination and superior senses. Aspect Warriors are about the same in this respect......
No parts of the current Tau and Eldar codex are in the game flat out broken.................
A Space Marine is normally fine against a single Ork Boy or Tyranid - but that's not how those races fight....
Lord Tarkin wrote: I believe in a grimdark setting with only 1,000,000 SM's existing at any one time, they should be a bit more skilled. C'mon, only 1 million and here, they die like nothing to a relatively small group of Eldar? It's pathetic.
I agree that numbers in 40k do not make sense. But I also think Eldar are supposed to be pretty rare too, and aspect warriors are a tiny proportion of their population. I have no idea what you consider rude or offensive in my post. Apart from the multiquote, which is annoying, and which I should have removed, but I posted in a rush. Well, except if it is about the fact some girls can beat you at sport. If you consider that an insult, then I consider the fact you take that as an insult as offensive. Lots of girls are going to beat me at sport too, if that makes you feel better.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I believe in a grimdark setting with only 1,000,000 SM's existing at any one time, they should be a bit more skilled. C'mon, only 1 million and here, they die like nothing to a relatively small group of Eldar? It's pathetic.
I agree that numbers in 40k do not make sense. But I also think Eldar are supposed to be pretty rare too, and aspect warriors are a tiny proportion of their population.
I have no idea what you consider rude or offensive in my post. Apart from the multiquote, which is annoying, and which I should have removed, but I posted in a rush.
Well, except if it is about the fact some girls can beat you at sport. If you consider that an insult, then I consider the fact you take that as an insult as offensive. Lots of girls are going to beat me at sport too, if that makes you feel better.
You don't know me so don't assume. I am not trying to be sexist, but I have only ever lost to a girl once in my entire life. If lots of girls beat you at sport then you are not as fervent about it as I am. But this isn't the subject in which the thread was created.
I'll be honest, I absolutely despise the numbers GW has put on every. Single. Race.
Regardless, I take those numbers and put them into logical sense. If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about. Go and read "brotherhood of the snake" by Dan Abnett and then come back and watch that ridiculous video. Let me know how completely absurd in difference the 2 of them are.
SM probably doesn't wanna have a shooting contest with the Tau
why not? Tau don't have great depth perception and can only match Guard etc due to high tech trickery - Astartes have high tech trickery, excellent co-ordination and superior senses. Aspect Warriors are about the same in this respect......
No parts of the current Tau and Eldar codex are in the game flat out broken.................
A Space Marine is normally fine against a single Ork Boy or Tyranid - but that's not how those races fight....
I was referring to fluff. One marine can most likely put away 50 ork boys.
And Tau are extremely good at shooting. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but Tau point a railgun at you and you disappear in a mist of blood.
Ok, now you go read the Ciapias Cain book (Traitors Gambit?) that shows 4 Chaos Space Marines deepstriking, then charging into a horde of cultists. Of course the Space Marines take there due, but they they also die off one by one, by cultists. Or how Cain (not a living Saint, i don't see no angel wings!) managed to hold his own vs a Khorn Beserker. And you cannot say Khorn Beserkers are worse combatants then other Marines, because they channel there rage into combat. To say otherwise would be to say that Angron was a bad fighter because he was always angry and rage fueled.
Also read Path of the Incubus were Wyches and Incubi cut there way through Plague Marines, or my previously quoted part were the Wyches and Lelith were *shredding* the Space Marines in Commaragh. So we have met an empasse, either disregard ALL Black Library fluff because it is to inconsistent, or we accept all of it and you take the good with the bad.
And saying that a Marine shouldn't lose to a Banshee once she has met Melee range is silly, Banshees are TAILOR MADE to kill Marines. In there fluff it specifically states that the power swords can cut through power armour easily, and the Banshee wail would be devastating to Marines, due to there enhanced senses it is very likely that by itself would cripple a Marine.
And Tau being extremely good at shooting? What fluff have you been reading? All Tau are short sighted and have slower reflexes then the average human, only superior tech and marker lights allows them to compete even with Imperial Guard.
pm713 wrote: Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.
I was referring to fluff. One marine can most likely put away 50 ork boys.
And Tau are extremely good at shooting. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but Tau point a railgun at you and you disappear in a mist of blood.
As was I
Nope Tau are not good at shooting - they have good guns and tech to help them be as good as Guard but fire a lascannon at you and you are normally just a wisp of smoke............. Crisis Veterans are their equivalent of Marines.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Ok, now you go read the Ciapias Cain book (Traitors Gambit?) that shows 4 Chaos Space Marines deepstriking, then charging into a horde of cultists. Of course the Space Marines take there due, but they they also die off one by one, by cultists. Or how Cain (not a living Saint, i don't see no angel wings!) managed to hold his own vs a Khorn Beserker. And you cannot say Khorn Beserkers are worse combatants then other Marines, because they channel there rage into combat. To say otherwise would be to say that Angron was a bad fighter because he was always angry and rage fueled.
Also read Path of the Incubus were Wyches and Incubi cut there way through Plague Marines, or my previously quoted part were the Wyches and Lelith were *shredding* the Space Marines in Commaragh. So we have met an empasse, either disregard ALL Black Library fluff because it is to inconsistent, or we accept all of it and you take the good with the bad.
And saying that a Marine shouldn't lose to a Banshee once she has met Melee range is silly, Banshees are TAILOR MADE to kill Marines. In there fluff it specifically states that the power swords can cut through power armour easily, and the Banshee wail would be devastating to Marines, due to there enhanced senses it is very likely that by itself would cripple a Marine.
And Tau being extremely good at shooting? What fluff have you been reading? All Tau are short sighted and have slower reflexes then the average human, only superior tech and marker lights allows them to compete even with Imperial Guard.
Like I said, terrible SM tactics in that video. "Hey guys, banshees are coming. Lets just disperse and let them kill us one by one."
I was referring to fluff. One marine can most likely put away 50 ork boys.
And Tau are extremely good at shooting. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but Tau point a railgun at you and you disappear in a mist of blood.
As was I
Nope Tau are not good at shooting - they have good guns and tech to help them be as good as Guard but fire a lascannon at you and you are normally just a wisp of smoke............. Crisis Veterans are their equivalent of Marines.
Oh, well I've never read about Tau unfortunately. Guess I'll get on lexicanum tonight and educate myself.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I am not trying to be sexist, but I have only ever lost to a girl once in my entire life.
If you feel that saying there are girls that are better than you at sports is offensive and insulting to you, I am going to be offensive and insulting. Because there are girls that are better than you at sports. Unless of course if you are a professional sportsman at top level. In every sport.
Lord Tarkin wrote: If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about.
That is your opinion. My opinion is that common sense then implies they are not relevant at any big scale.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Go and read "brotherhood of the snake" by Dan Abnett and then come back and watch that ridiculous video. Let me know how completely absurd in difference the 2 of them are.
Go and watch that video and then come back and read that ridiculous “Brotherhood of the snake”. You are assuming “Brotherhood of the snake” is the valid source, and therefore the book is invalidating the video. I am not.
pm713 wrote: Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.
The crow calling the raven black. Or the other way around, I never remember.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I am not trying to be sexist, but I have only ever lost to a girl once in my entire life.
If you feel that saying there are girls that are better than you at sports is offensive and insulting to you, I am going to be offensive and insulting. Because there are girls that are better than you at sports. Unless of course if you are a professional sportsman at top level. In every sport.
Lord Tarkin wrote: If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about.
That is your opinion. My opinion is that common sense then implies they are not relevant at any big scale.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Go and read "brotherhood of the snake" by Dan Abnett and then come back and watch that ridiculous video. Let me know how completely absurd in difference the 2 of them are.
Go and watch that video and then come back and read that ridiculous “Brotherhood of the snake”. You are assuming “Brotherhood of the snake” is the valid source, and therefore the book is invalidating the video. I am not.
pm713 wrote: Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.
The crow calling the raven black. Or the other way around, I never remember.
I do waiger, no girl can be me at football, haha. Take your fantasy elsewhere, I go off of reality and facts, facts says men are stronger than womem hence can perform sports at a higher level. There are women who can beat me, just not nearly as often as a man can.
You can grab at whatever you want but Dan Abnett is a qualified BL author and his opinions I will take over you're illogical biased myths.
Hmm, I am wondering, what's your name? Because you are OBVIOUSLY and Pro Footballer that plays for a major club and is one of the top in the world, and i would like to know if i own any Football cards with you on them. Because if you are not a pro-footballer, then seriously, how conceded can you get? There are many pro-female athletes, especially in football, more so then any other, and if you are seriously saying that ''No girl can be me at football'' then you are sorely mistaken.
You know who else is a qualified BL author, Sandy Mitchel, yet you refuse to acknowledge her books as anything more then 'comedy', when in actual fact it is just as cannon as anything else that comes out of black Library. Another author, Andy Chambers wrote Path of the Incubus, Phil Kelly wrote the Dark Eldar codex, all of it true and all of it is cannon, yet you refuse to even respond to me about the points i have made regarding the invasion of Commaragh and the Dark Eldar/Eldar codexes.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Hmm, I am wondering, what's your name? Because you are OBVIOUSLY and Pro Footballer that plays for a major club and is one of the top in the world, and i would like to know if i own any Football cards with you on them. Because if you are not a pro-footballer, then seriously, how conceded can you get? There are many pro-female athletes, especially in football, more so then any other, and if you are seriously saying that ''No girl can be me at football'' then you are sorely mistaken.
You know who else is a qualified BL author, Sandy Mitchel, yet you refuse to acknowledge her books as anything more then 'comedy', when in actual fact it is just as cannon as anything else that comes out of black Library. Another author, Andy Chambers wrote Path of the Incubus, Phil Kelly wrote the Dark Eldar codex, all of it true and all of it is cannon, yet you refuse to even respond to me about the points i have made regarding the invasion of Commaragh and the Dark Eldar/Eldar codexes.
Maybe someday I can become an NFL athlete. It's my dream, leave it alone.
Edit: And? What's your point? "Brotherhood of the Snake" read it and you might learn something. Priad absolutely man handled those DE. So I'll believe in what I want to believe, you won't change my mind
pm713 wrote: Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.
I forgot I was talking to you..... Nevermind I'll leave you to your magical world of fanfiction and idiocy.
pm713 wrote: Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.
What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.
I forgot I was talking to you..... Nevermind I'll leave you to your magical world of fanfiction and idiocy.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Take your fantasy elsewhere, I go off of reality and facts, facts says men are stronger than womem hence can perform sports at a higher level. There are women who can beat me, just not nearly as often as a man can.
So, my fantasy is that there are woman who can beat you, and you do admit that there are women who can beat you, yet I still need to take my fantasy elsewhere? Not to forgot it was supposed to be insulting. Maybe it is still insulting, but now you seem to acknowledge it is true.
Lord Tarkin wrote: You can grab at whatever you want but Dan Abnett is a qualified BL author and his opinions I will take over you're illogical biased myths.
So, you are going to take what some qualified BL author are writing, disregard what other qualified BL authors write, and then tell me I have “illogical biased myths”?
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: You know who else is a qualified BL author, Sandy Mitchel, yet you refuse to acknowledge her books as anything more then 'comedy', when in actual fact it is just as cannon as anything else that comes out of black Library.
Sandy Mitchel is a guy, actually. I agree with what you said.
Ashiraya wrote: Marines (And Eldar too, for that matter) are portrayed as incompetent, and inconsistent. Like in Black Library's lore.
FTFY.
They're written by human writers with little or no experience on the topics and little interest in doing research, so they come across as incompetent as a matter of course.
You can't blame the poor Eldar and Astartes for the writers having no idea of what they are actually doing.
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Lord Tarkin wrote: Regardless, I take those numbers and put them into logical sense. If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about.
or maybe, from a logical point of view, that are just insanely easy to write about? ''Super Human Warrior who is the best at everything, has the best weapons and armour and allies, has no interest in women or romance and slaughter there way through every threat with little danger to themselves'' is an extremely easy story to write along. Certain Black Library books are more guilty of this then others, for example the Night Lords trilogy is a good example of how Marines should be, while others have them fighting off hordes of Chaos Space Marines with a Bolter while *their* bolter shells bounce off of his armour.
If the universe is that big, then 1 million Marines cannot matter on the large scale, they just get a lot of coverage due to being *safe* to write about. Writing about Imperial Guard is in danger of being to gritty due to easy deaths, Eldar are to alien, Necrons to cold, Orks to Orky and Tau to ideologically different. Writing about 10 ft super soldiers that never die and have no women problems is quite simply, the easier option. Use your common sense in context of the real world, and it might help you understand the situation when it's transferred into a fantasy one.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: or maybe, from a logical point of view, that are just insanely easy to write about? ''Super Human Warrior who is the best at everything, has the best weapons and armour and allies, has no interest in women or romance and slaughter there way through every threat with little danger to themselves'' is an extremely easy story to write along. Certain Black Library books are more guilty of this then others, for example the Night Lords trilogy is a good example of how Marines should be, while others have them fighting off hordes of Chaos Space Marines with a Bolter while *their* bolter shells bounce off of his armour.
If the universe is that big, then 1 million Marines cannot matter on the large scale, they just get a lot of coverage due to being *safe* to write about. Writing about Imperial Guard is in danger of being to gritty due to easy deaths, Eldar are to alien, Necrons to cold, Orks to Orky and Tau to ideologically different. Writing about 10 ft super soldiers that never die and have no women problems is quite simply, the easier option. Use your common sense in context of the real world, and it might help you understand the situation when it's transferred into a fantasy one.
Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.
Eldar however, should not equal a Chaos marine in any martial standards. You are obviously a marine hater and thats fine but I am not claiming SM's to be unbeatable. I don't know why you insist in attacking me when I say that particular dawn of war video should have been much better. Those Eldar should have been in larger numbers and THEN I would've been fine with it. SM's are not gods but they are not serfs either.
And Tau being extremely good at shooting? What fluff have you been reading? All Tau are short sighted and have slower reflexes then the average human, only superior tech and marker lights allows them to compete even with Imperial Guard.
Small quip with this. It is stated that tau have difficulty quickly focusing on things for changes in distances, not slower reflexes, shortsightedness only really affects close combat (and, what do you know, there bad at cc).
Lord Tarkin wrote: Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.
Interestingly, while I agree that the battle should be very equal, I am not of the belief that it would be a massacre. The 'advanced' infantry of 40K (Tyranid Warriors, Space Marines, Aspect Warriors, Immortals...) always seemed to me that toughness was their greatest advantage. All of them are lethal offensively, all four capable of slaughtering things like gaunts, guardsmen or boyz in short order, but their resilience (Tough body+chitinous armour/tough body + tough armour/extreme dodging + advanced armour/tough body + selfrepair) always gave me the impression that they were exponentially more tough than 'basic' infantry than they were strong offensively.
I imagine this is very unpopular with many. Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it' with the hopes of fighting against 40K's nature of mythology-in-space. But if I saw an Immortal take fire from an entire Guard company and just heal back all the damage, a Banshee slaughtering an Ork horde who is not even close to fast enough to land a blow, a Space Marine charging through Termagants like a freight train crushes unfortunate wildlife who walked onto the rails, I would not bat an eyebrow. The list can be made long. These guys play in a different division.
The offensive technology of 40K is immense, but so is the defensive.
In this particular example, a fight between a Bolter Marine and a Bolter Chaos Marine is one I believe would take time. Mass-reactive mini-rockets are deflected by solid armour plates as the two duelists speed around each other, trying to hit a weak spot. Both combatants switch between bursts of fire and close assaults as they focus on seeking out the weakness in each other. But it is not a fight that's likely to end in seconds.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.
Interestingly, while I agree that the battle should be very equal, I am not of the belief that it would be a massacre. The 'advanced' infantry of 40K (Tyranid Warriors, Space Marines, Aspect Warriors, Immortals...) always seemed to me that toughness was their greatest advantage. All of them are lethal offensively, all four capable of slaughtering things like gaunts, guardsmen or boyz in short order, but their resilience (Tough body+chitinous armour/tough body + tough armour/extreme dodging + advanced armour/tough body + selfrepair) always gave me the impression that they were exponentially more tough than 'basic' infantry than they were strong offensively.
I imagine this is very unpopular with many. Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it' with the hopes of fighting against 40K's nature of mythology-in-space. But if I saw an Immortal take fire from an entire Guard company and just heal back all the damage, a Banshee slaughtering an Ork horde who is not even close to fast enough to land a blow, a Space Marine charging through Termagants like a freight train crushes unfortunate wildlife who walked onto the rails, I would not bat an eyebrow. The list can be made long. These guys play in a different division.
The offensive technology of 40K is immense, but so is the defensive.
In this particular example, a fight between a Bolter Marine and a Bolter Chaos Marine is one I believe would take time. Mass-reactive mini-rockets are deflected by solid armour plates as the two duelists speed around each other, trying to hit a weak spot. Both combatants switch between bursts of fire and close assaults as they focus on seeking out the weakness in each other. But it is not a fight that's likely to end in seconds.
I agree with everything you just said. Chaos marines and space marines would not be a short conclusion.
Ha, I lol'd at that farmer with a meltagun expression
I mean, there are certain scenarios that can tilt the favor for one or the other. Like in the Iron Snakes, one squad of marines were cut down in 4 seconds I believe. It was a while since I read it but a mass chaos marine ambush saw the entire squad destroyed in matter of 4 seconds. I actually enjoyed the hopelessness of the situation, that made 40k look like the grimdark setting its suppose to look like. SM's aren't indestructible but they do require a ton of effort to efficiently win against.
Ashiraya wrote: Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it'
The description of how insanely incredible it is that Huron survived a melta shot tend to confirm that. I mean, melta guns are no joke. They do not have a long range, they do not have a high rate of fire, they do not have a huge blast radius, but where they do hit, they just utterly destroy things. Seems like you would want to take away their only quality.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.
Eldar however, should not equal a Chaos marine in any martial standards.
In other world, “my guys should be the best, and I am going to disregard any and all fluff saying otherwise”. Which would be fine, if you were not hellbent on proving other that your ridiculously biased version is the only true one.
The description of how insanely incredible it is that Huron survived a melta shot tend to confirm that. I mean, melta guns are no joke. They do not have a long range, they do not have a high rate of fire, they do not have a huge blast radius, but where they do hit, they just utterly destroy things. Seems like you would want to take away their only quality.
Eh. It's inconsistent as always. I agree that they hit very hard, but their universal oneshottability is overplayed. I think. Add 'In my opinion' at the end of each of my sentences, and 'YMMV' at the end of each of my posts.
As for Huron, the melta shot hit one of his items which exploded. The meltashot was not what damaged him so badly. Something even GW seems to forget in his entry.
In other world, “my guys should be the best, and I am going to disregard any and all fluff saying otherwise”. Which would be fine, if you were not hellbent on proving other that your ridiculously biased version is the only true one.
Ashiraya wrote: Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it'
The description of how insanely incredible it is that Huron survived a melta shot tend to confirm that. I mean, melta guns are no joke. They do not have a long range, they do not have a high rate of fire, they do not have a huge blast radius, but where they do hit, they just utterly destroy things. Seems like you would want to take away their only quality.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.
Eldar however, should not equal a Chaos marine in any martial standards.
In other world, “my guys should be the best, and I am going to disregard any and all fluff saying otherwise”. Which would be fine, if you were not hellbent on proving other that your ridiculously biased version is the only true one.
Wow, you are just really mad right now. Take a chill pill, I never said marines were the frickin best and I never said I would disregard fluff. Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.
Wow, you are just really mad right now. Take a chill pill, I never said marines were the frickin best and I never said I would disregard fluff. Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.
I think it should vary depending on the Eldar, but don't mind me
Wow, you are just really mad right now. Take a chill pill, I never said marines were the frickin best and I never said I would disregard fluff. Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.
I think it should vary depending on the Eldar, but don't mind me
Yeah, it should definitely vary. Look at DE. Their normal warriors, so to speak, don't equal a marine in combat but an Archon could slice through a few SM squads.
That farseer in the video was pathetic. All she did was stand still and shoot lightning and killed only 1 marine. I would've enjoyed seeing a thorough battle but it made no sense.
You quoted one of my post and answered only by “feth you”. This is in direct contradiction with DakkaDakka's rule, and responding would certainly have led to me being in direct contradiction with those rules too. Therefore, I reported it.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.
No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that eldar that do not train in martial combat should be inferior to space marines in martial combat, but those that do train in martial combat should be superior. Especially aspect warrior, wyches and incubus. Of course, an exceptional space marine could be better than a rank-and-file eldar warrior, but an exceptional dark eldar will basically always be better than even the best space marines. That is my opinion. You can call it delusional if you want to.
His old lightning claw, the Ghost Razors. Some archeotech or something of the like. When it was struck by the melta shot, it detonated in a furious explosion that incenerated a large part of poor Huron.
You quoted one of my post and answered only by “feth you”. This is in direct contradiction with DakkaDakka's rule, and responding would certainly have led to me being in direct contradiction with those rules too. Therefore, I reported it.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.
No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that eldar that do not train in martial combat should be inferior to space marines in martial combat, but those that do train in martial combat should be superior. Especially aspect warrior, wyches and incubus. Of course, an exceptional space marine could be better than a rank-and-file eldar warrior, but an exceptional dark eldar will basically always be better than even the best space marines.
That is my opinion. You can call it delusional if you want to.
Aspect warriors and wyches are badasses, obviously. So are banshees, banshees take CC very seriously.
With that being said, I am merely disappointed in the way the marines in that video were portrayed, along with that weak ass Eldar Farseer. Then that dreadnought just completely disappearing after slaughtering two eldar. I though that entire video was hilarious and laughable.
Ashiraya wrote: It's a cool video and it works for its purpose. But it falls apart when you think about it for more than ten seconds.
I have a feeling they didn't include the actual identity of the marines and eldar because the video would've been too long, so I'll ease up on the gas but still not fluff at all.
I didn't post the video to show who was better then who, i posted the video because within the video was a *specific example* which i believed worked to fluff, as i mentioned in the post. That example was between 1:06 and 1:08, forget about the rest, and just look at that. It had a Banshee weaving in and out of an Assault Marine, with the Assault Marine failing to hit her. Now just assume, 1v1, and also assuming the Banshee made it into combat without being turned into a red mist, that is how i imagine a fight between a Banshee and a Marine would go. She is faster (at least while the Marine is within his armour), more agile and her weapon will slide through power armour like butter. *IF* it came to it, in that specific situation, i believe the Banshee would, and by all rights should considering there niche as premier MEQ killers, win the fight a lot more often then not.
''Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.''
Your doing it again, referring to an entire race instead of the specific military branches of said race. No one is saying an Eldar pot maker and Guardian should equal a SM, we are saying Aspect Warriors and Wyches and Incubi should. For example Incubi and Banshees are some of the most efficient Space Marine killers known (evidence: Path of the Incubi and the Night lords Trilogy) in close combat, rivaled by Dark Reapers being known to crumple Power Armour at range as well. Would you agree, that if an Aspect Warrior or Military Dark Eldar was vs the Average Space Marine in the field that the Eldar specialized in (Space Marines have always been jack of all trades, Eldar have always specialized) that the Eldar should have the advantage?
**Edit** Another example of Melta vs Marine is, again, in the Ciaphias Cain books. In one of his adventures while Cain is trading blows with a Beserker, Cain creates enough room for Jurgan to come in and evaporate a Space Marines head with a Melta blast. He seems well and truly dead from that...
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: I didn't post the video to show who was better then who, i posted the video because within the video was a *specific example* which i believed worked to fluff, as i mentioned in the post. That example was between 1:06 and 1:08, forget about the rest, and just look at that. It had a Banshee weaving in and out of an Assault Marine, with the Assault Marine failing to hit her. Now just assume, 1v1, and also assuming the Banshee made it into combat without being turned into a red mist, that is how i imagine a fight between a Banshee and a Marine would go. She is faster (at least while the Marine is within his armour), more agile and her weapon will slide through power armour like butter. *IF* it came to it, in that specific situation, i believe the Banshee would, and by all rights should considering there niche as premier MEQ killers, win the fight a lot more often then not.
''Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.''
Your doing it again, referring to an entire race instead of the specific military branches of said race. No one is saying an Eldar pot maker and Guardian should equal a SM, we are saying Aspect Warriors and Wyches and Incubi should. For example Incubi and Banshees are some of the most efficient Space Marine killers known (evidence: Path of the Incubi and the Night lords Trilogy) in close combat, rivaled by Dark Reapers being known to crumple Power Armour at range as well. Would you agree, that if an Aspect Warrior or Military Dark Eldar was vs the Average Space Marine in the field that the Eldar specialized in (Space Marines have always been jack of all trades, Eldar have always specialized) that the Eldar should have the advantage?
**Edit** Another example of Melta vs Marine is, again, in the Ciaphias Cain books. In one of his adventures while Cain is trading blows with a Beserker, Cain creates enough room for Jurgan to come in and evaporate a Space Marines head with a Melta blast. He seems well and truly dead from that...
As I have said, aspect warriors wyches and incubi are very formidable CC foes. I believe tbat is their specialty but I DO believe a SM is slightly more intelligent. It plays very little in CC but I will give the marine the disadvantage. However, in the fluff, marines would not have had such terrible tactics.
Now forgive me, I realize those were banshees in the video. I am not familiar with Eldar but now I know what they mainly look like (I only battled Eldar once on TT). With that being said, I saw the assualt marines kill a few banshees so I suppose it wasnt terrible fluff but however, the tactis on both sides still don't add up. As I mentioned earlier, the marines just dispersed. Why would you disperse when you know you'll be fighting banshees? That poor heavy bolter marine wouldnt have gotten raped by that warp spider if he had a brother by his side to help him.
Then the Eldar? They had like, one warp spider? Where the hell were his comrades at? A pathetic farseer that sat idly by as her fellows died to superhumans? I...don't understand any of that gak. But hey, I know there are very few 40k videos to refer to so we have no choice but to enjoy this nonsense.
Edit: about that assualt marine. He would not have died of a sword through the gut. I felt it was a cool scene but the wound should have been much more fatal. Would've been cool to see him have his head cut off, his throat sliced, or a giant slash across the middle of his chest and destroying his innards. A sword through the gut wouldn't have even fazed him, and he would've just hacked that banshee in two.
Of course the tactics were terrible, if both races were suing sound tactics the Eldar would of won hands down, and even you cannot disagree with that! The reason being, the Eldar knew the Space Marines were coming and had a Farseer, so she should of been able to see exactly when and where. In response she should of had a *much* larger force in better positions, as i saw no anti-tank to be ready for the dreadnought. Being able to see the futures is a massive advantage war wise, and it's a known fact about the Eldar they only commit to a battle when they have no other choice or are assured of victory.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Of course the tactics were terrible, if both races were suing sound tactics the Eldar would of won hands down, and even you cannot disagree with that! The reason being, the Eldar knew the Space Marines were coming and had a Farseer, so she should of been able to see exactly when and where. In response she should of had a *much* larger force in better positions, as i saw no anti-tank to be ready for the dreadnought. Being able to see the futures is a massive advantage war wise, and it's a known fact about the Eldar they only commit to a battle when they have no other choice or are assured of victory.
Um, you cannot say "hands down" Im sure if the SM's had more men and a psyker of their own it could've been an awesome battle. Stop being biased.
I am convinced that an assault-oriented Space Marine (Say one of those guys who are left in the assault squads because they lack the flexibility to be tacticals) with a chainsword and bolt pistol is about equal to a Howling Banshee or Striking Scorpion in combat.
Ashiraya wrote: I am convinced that an assault-oriented Space Marine (Say one of those guys who are left in the assault squads because they lack the flexibility to be tacticals) with a chainsword and bolt pistol is about equal to a Howling Banshee or Striking Scorpion in combat.
Yeah, one of those guys. They would be pretty equal
It's a well known fact that Eldar have the most accurate divination in the known universe, especially so of the Craftworld Ulthwe that is depicted in the Video. So, unfortunately for the Imperium, Eldar do not do ''Awesome Battles'', because since Eldar lives are so important, Eldar only (Or at least, in the majority) partake in battles they are assured to win with minimal loss of life.
Combining the advantages of knowing exactly when, where and who will be there combined with superior Tech and Faster then Light travel, we can safely assume that if both parties are allowed pre-battle thought, the Eldar one will be much more thought out, effective and built to every weakness in the Space Marines they can perceive.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: It's a well known fact that Eldar have the most accurate divination in the known universe, especially so of the Craftworld Ulthwe that is depicted in the Video. So, unfortunately for the Imperium, Eldar do not do ''Awesome Battles'', because since Eldar lives are so important, Eldar only (Or at least, in the majority) partake in battles they are assured to win with minimal loss of life.
Eldar, however, are few, and they often have to fight battles they have to fight.
Indeed it would be. It was what I was hoping to see
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ALEXisAWESOME wrote: It's a well known fact that Eldar have the most accurate divination in the known universe, especially so of the Craftworld Ulthwe that is depicted in the Video. So, unfortunately for the Imperium, Eldar do not do ''Awesome Battles'', because since Eldar lives are so important, Eldar only (Or at least, in the majority) partake in battles they are assured to win with minimal loss of life.
Combining the advantages of knowing exactly when, where and who will be there combined with superior Tech and Faster then Light travel, we can safely assume that if both parties are allowed pre-battle thought, the Eldar one will be much more thought out, effective and built to every weakness in the Space Marines they can perceive.
Ashiraya wrote: Eldar, however, are few, and they often have to fight battles they have to fight.
They can far from always choose.
That is a very good point. Sometimes they must fight even if it costs them dearly.
But they will surely use all they have in order to have as much of an advantage as possible, instead of dumping a valuable Farseer somewhere she gets to kill exactly one enemy before dying. Unless that's the one marine that would in the future have defeated their craftworld...
Lord Tarkin wrote: Now forgive me, I realize those were banshees in the video. I am not familiar with Eldar but now I know what they mainly look like (I only battled Eldar once on TT).
Interesting fact.
Lord Tarkin wrote: As I mentioned earlier, the marines just dispersed. Why would you disperse when you know you'll be fighting banshees? That poor heavy bolter marine wouldnt have gotten raped by that warp spider if he had a brother by his side to help him.
Then the Eldar? They had like, one warp spider? Where the hell were his comrades at? A pathetic farseer that sat idly by as her fellows died to superhumans? I...don't understand any of that gak. But hey, I know there are very few 40k videos to refer to so we have no choice but to enjoy this nonsense.
I would like to point out we have no global scene at all. It feels like a bunch of separate scene, not a battle.
Lord Tarkin wrote: Edit: about that assualt marine. He would not have died of a sword through the gut. I felt it was a cool scene but the wound should have been much more fatal. Would've been cool to see him have his head cut off, his throat sliced, or a giant slash across the middle of his chest and destroying his innards. A sword through the gut wouldn't have even fazed him, and he would've just hacked that banshee in two.
Well, if that sword cut his spine, then he cannot move his lower body part anymore. That is going to make him way less of a threat.
Ashiraya wrote: I am convinced that an assault-oriented Space Marine (Say one of those guys who are left in the assault squads because they lack the flexibility to be tacticals) with a chainsword and bolt pistol is about equal to a Howling Banshee or Striking Scorpion in combat.
You are not going to be surprised, but I personally think eldars from those path would be better than an assault-oriented space marine.
Lord Tarkin wrote: I believe tbat is their specialty but I DO believe a SM is slightly more intelligent.
As I told before, for me eldars are the true intellectuals here, and marines seems like gritty barbarians in comparison. I would believe the eldar to be much more intelligent. Not only are the eldars “elves in space”, but they usually have walked many path, and likely some as scientists or philosophers…
Ashiraya wrote: Eldar, however, are few, and they often have to fight battles they have to fight.
They can far from always choose.
That is a very good point. Sometimes they must fight even if it costs them dearly.
But they will surely use all they have in order to have as much of an advantage as possible, instead of dumping a valuable Farseer somewhere she gets to kill exactly one enemy before dying. Unless that's the one marine that would in the future have defeated their craftworld...
While I highly doubt that marine held any future relevance, it is a good assumption but not likely the case. Just.....a dead farseer....for no good reason.
ZakFaire wrote: Exactly what in the lore makes Inquisitors so insanely tough?
I'll admit to not having read most of the thread, but I'll throw in my tuppence.
Game stats are heavily exaggerated. Main "hero" characters get stats to make them important in the game. A Space Marine chapter master is not actually three times as damage resistant as a regular marine, but it's not very impressive in game play if he dies just as easily. The stats are not directly representative of the actual fluff.
In "reality", an Inquisitor is an above average human, but what need to be remembered is that he's an Inquisitor. The job description to investigate, not fight. Certainly, an Inquisitor who can't handle himself in a fight won't live very long, but the ones that are primarily warriors are a bit of a rarity - most Inquisitors work like in Dark Heresy, via agents, but even those that do themselves get stuck in will generally be outclassed by members of their entourage when it comes to a fight.
Looking at my characters from Inquisitor (which focuses on a more common breed of Inquisitor than the Coteaz type), I wouldn't give the Inquisitors themselves great odds. I mean, there's a few power and force swords amongst them, but they'd struggle to close the distance to make those meaningful before they were taken apart by bolter fire.
Mostly, it's their allies who'd have the best chance. Best odds go to the Imperial Guardswoman who "canonically" fought against the 13th Black Crusade (our timeline is currently 014.M42) and killed a couple of traitor marines then, and the Zeta-level pyrokine/telepath.
ZakFaire wrote: Exactly what in the lore makes Inquisitors so insanely tough?
I'll admit to not having read most of the thread, but I'll throw in my tuppence.
Game stats are heavily exaggerated. Main "hero" characters get stats to make them important in the game. A Space Marine chapter master is not actually three times as damage resistant as a regular marine, but it's not very impressive in game play if he dies just as easily. The stats are not directly representative of the actual fluff.
In "reality", an Inquisitor is an above average human, but what need to be remembered is that he's an Inquisitor. The job description to investigate, not fight. Certainly, an Inquisitor who can't handle himself in a fight won't live very long, but the ones that are primarily warriors are a bit of a rarity - most Inquisitors work like in Dark Heresy, via agents, but even those that do themselves get stuck in will generally be outclassed by members of their entourage when it comes to a fight.
Looking at my characters from Inquisitor (which focuses on a more common breed of Inquisitor than the Coteaz type), I wouldn't give the Inquisitors themselves great odds. I mean, there's a few power and force swords amongst them, but they'd struggle to close the distance to make those meaningful before they were taken apart by bolter fire.
Mostly, it's their allies who'd have the best chance. Best odds go to the Imperial Guardswoman who "canonically" fought against the 13th Black Crusade (our timeline is currently 014.M42) and killed a couple of traitor marines then, and the Zeta-level pyrokine/telepath.
It really depends on the inquisitor. most of the investigation is done by lackeys, but all inquisitors were at one point. The investigation often leads to quite a bit of fighting, attacks by gangs, chaos worshipers ect. Inquisitors are just human beings, but you have to remember that the recorces available to an inquisitor are huge.
ZakFaire wrote: Exactly what in the lore makes Inquisitors so insanely tough?
I'll admit to not having read most of the thread, but I'll throw in my tuppence.
Game stats are heavily exaggerated. Main "hero" characters get stats to make them important in the game. A Space Marine chapter master is not actually three times as damage resistant as a regular marine, but it's not very impressive in game play if he dies just as easily. The stats are not directly representative of the actual fluff.
In "reality", an Inquisitor is an above average human, but what need to be remembered is that he's an Inquisitor. The job description to investigate, not fight. Certainly, an Inquisitor who can't handle himself in a fight won't live very long, but the ones that are primarily warriors are a bit of a rarity - most Inquisitors work like in Dark Heresy, via agents, but even those that do themselves get stuck in will generally be outclassed by members of their entourage when it comes to a fight.
Looking at my characters from Inquisitor (which focuses on a more common breed of Inquisitor than the Coteaz type), I wouldn't give the Inquisitors themselves great odds. I mean, there's a few power and force swords amongst them, but they'd struggle to close the distance to make those meaningful before they were taken apart by bolter fire.
Mostly, it's their allies who'd have the best chance. Best odds go to the Imperial Guardswoman who "canonically" fought against the 13th Black Crusade (our timeline is currently 014.M42) and killed a couple of traitor marines then, and the Zeta-level pyrokine/telepath.
Another Marco, awesome!
Okay enough, back on topic lol
Inquistors are still fairly tough in a fight. They also have access to ridiculously powerful weapons that would make things a tad unfair for the SM. But then again, a SM has way quicker reflexes than average humans and the Inquisitor will find his head exploded in a shower of gore before he could efficiently react.
Co'tor Shas wrote:It really depends on the inquisitor.
Well, yes. Certainly there's a massive spectrum of Inquisitors, but I have to see the front-line brute Inquisitor as something of a rarity. They just happen to be the type players of the main table-top game are most familiar with - and, likely, the Imperial populace too, as Inquisitors who go out and smack aliens around the head are going to be more noticeable than the ones successfully and quietly conducting investigations under cover.
Front-line war is going to be an even higher risk role than the Inquisition normally is, so life-expectancy ain't gonna be great. Yeah, I know we hear about Inquisitors making it to their three hundreds or older, but let's be honest, Games Workshop aren't going to commission a novel series about an Inquisitor who dies six months into the job; we're by default hearing the interesting stories about the very best (and luckiest) characters.
I'd be highly surprised if many Inquisitors survived more than a decade or two in the role, particularly when talking about those that deliberately get into fights.
That said, the kind of Inquisitor who's likely to have it in their mind to teach a Marine a lesson probably is one of these combatant Inquisitors, but it depends on the full scope of the question being asked.
Lord Tarkin wrote:Inquistors are still fairly tough in a fight. They also have access to ridiculously powerful weapons that would make things a tad unfair for the SM.
Wellllll... yes and no. While Inquisitors might have access to such weapons, it doesn't mean they're carrying them at any given time - they often tend to be rather impractical due to weight, unreliability, limited shot capacity, cumbersome "handling" or the like. If the lethality of these weapons isn't actually necessary for the mission, I'd expect to see most Inquisitors opting for something more mundane.
However, if the Inquisitor expected to face a Space Marine, there's no reason they wouldn't take something or someone that could kill or disable said marine.
Melissia wrote: However, if the Inquisitor expected to face a Space Marine, there's no reason they wouldn't take something or someone that could kill or disable said marine.
Or vice versa. Astartes usually do not walk around with archeotech, but they have lots of rather deadly weapons.
Given the respective occupation of inquisitors and marines, the inquisitor is much more likely to come unexpected.
After all, the four main weapons of the Inquisition are surprise, fear ruth,less efficiency, and an undying devotion to the pope, nobody expects them, and yadda yadda …
Melissia wrote: However, if the Inquisitor expected to face a Space Marine, there's no reason they wouldn't take something or someone that could kill or disable said marine.
Certainly there isn't... but if you're talking about an Inquisitor expecting and fully prepared to face a Space Marine, then you're setting up a very one sided fight. Even on an entire chapter level, it takes plot armour such as that afforded to the First and Second Foundings to save a chapter from being wiped out (or nearly so) by a well prepared Inquisitor or Inquisitors.
Under those circumstances, I couldn't name a single Inquisitor I've ever written who couldn't pull in allies or weapons that could curb-stomp a Space Marine, which makes it an almost meaningless answer to the question.
Indeed. Inquisitors can command almost anyone. If they are allowed to prepare that much they can just keep throwing guardsmen at the problem until it goes away.
MarcoSkoll wrote: Under those circumstances, I couldn't name a single Inquisitor I've ever written who couldn't pull in allies or weapons that could curb-stomp a Space Marine, which makes it an almost meaningless answer to the question.
Like all "can X beat Y" topics, it was always a meaningless question to begin with, so that's okay.
Co'tor Shas wrote:It really depends on the inquisitor.
Well, yes. Certainly there's a massive spectrum of Inquisitors, but I have to see the front-line brute Inquisitor as something of a rarity. They just happen to be the type players of the main table-top game are most familiar with - and, likely, the Imperial populace too, as Inquisitors who go out and smack aliens around the head are going to be more noticeable than the ones successfully and quietly conducting investigations under cover.
Front-line war is going to be an even higher risk role than the Inquisition normally is, so life-expectancy ain't gonna be great. Yeah, I know we hear about Inquisitors making it to their three hundreds or older, but let's be honest, Games Workshop aren't going to commission a novel series about an Inquisitor who dies six months into the job; we're by default hearing the interesting stories about the very best (and luckiest) characters.
I'd be highly surprised if many Inquisitors survived more than a decade or two in the role, particularly when talking about those that deliberately get into fights.
That said, the kind of Inquisitor who's likely to have it in their mind to teach a Marine a lesson probably is one of these combatant Inquisitors, but it depends on the full scope of the question being asked.
You said is better than me. If you haven't, I would recommend you check out DH and it's splats. Some of the inquisitors detailed in there are practically space marines already .
I can't see her fighting a Space Marine except under extreme circumstances and even then unless he is also a named character she has really powerful plot shields
