Uhh... I hate it that I get to be the one that brings this rumour around but...
I have heard from a friend that he was told direct by a wholesaling group that FineCost is deader than dead. All remaining stock is being sold, and after that it is gonesky.
I have no way of verifying this (other than to say my friend would not lie about this), so there we go. Make of it what you will. We've heard this before, but maybe this time it's true.
Interesting. I wonder if this will coincide with the rumored change to WHFB range, it being dramatically reduced (i.e. removal of everything Finecast)
Finecast has maintained a very poor reputation even after attempts to improve the material. I'm not that surprised that GW is finally deciding to get rid of it all together.
They just reboxed the Thunderfire cannon. Not sure why they would've done that if they were planning on discontinuing the medium the model is made in....
Unless it comes out in plastic as the same sculpt....
I hate metal, and yet I'd adore a change back to it. FineCost really is that bad.
Of course, the change from metal to FineCost and back to metal again means probably 200% the cost of when it was first metal.
ClockworkZion wrote: Eh, doen't surprise me. If true might be why Eldar, Tau and Marines were said to be getting releases this year, all have Finecast that needs updating.
That is a good point. But can they do all the Aspect Warrior in plas... wait... no... they're just going to cut them.
I guess we have another instance of "be careful what you wish for".
"For many Eldar, there comes a time when their path leads them to pursue one of the many exclusive, limited edition, Aspects of Khaine, the God Of War....
ClockworkZion wrote: Eh, doen't surprise me. If true might be why Eldar, Tau and Marines were said to be getting releases this year, all have Finecast that needs updating.
That is a good point. But can they do all the Aspect Warrior in plas... wait... no... they're just going to cut them.
I guess we have another instance of "be careful what you wish for".
I can't wait to hear the arguments about how it's the customer's fault that these units needed to be cut, or that they weren't that important to the game anyway so GW did us a favor by cutting them.
brendan wrote: Metals before Finecast? I dunno. I've painted a few and they weren't awful. Better details anyhow. I am no Picasso though.
The problem is that the QC on finecast is just all over the place. I've have to buy finecast 10 times since it came out. Most of the purches went well.
Except for one. I got a nice new Witch Hunter when it came out with the last empire book. Sadly he was was badly miscast.
So then sent me a new one... That was also miscast.... So then sent me a 2nd replacement, that was also miscast the same way. Everytime their were large gaps and holes missing in the body. Like whole hands, faces, and even the bottom of his coat missing.
3rd try i got a good cast on the body, but all the weapons were badly miscast. Luckily I got perfect weapons on my 1st three kits......
like. 9/10 times working out isn't to bad. But that experience on the 1/10th was a bloody nightmare. If the QC on finecast wasn't so blood terrible even after 2-3 years they would of sorted out the QC by now, but miscast finecast still is a issue that consently plague us after it being years since the release.
Originally, when Finecast made its debut, I was ill about it. Literally ill... I also did panic purchases which included super marked up models at one store in San Luis Obispo ("Oh they're double the price because... um... they're limited edition... yeah... that's it").
Eventually after working with some Finecast pieces I found they weren't all bad. In fact, I probably only had one bad cast out of the stuff I have worked with (it was Sammael of the Ravenwing... lots of missing chunks and warped pieces).
As for Finecast going away, I'm totally not panic purchasing this time around.
Imagine if we lived in a world where one in ten iPhones were faulty out of the box, or one in ten new cars wouldn't drive off the forecourt? These are immensely complex machines, what we're talking about is filling a mould with some liquid so there are no bubbles and not taking it out til it's set properly.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Uhh... I hate it that I get to be the one that brings this rumour around but...
I have heard from a friend that he was told direct by a wholesaling group that FineCost is deader than dead. All remaining stock is being sold, and after that it is gonesky.
I have no way of verifying this (other than to say my friend would not lie about this), so there we go. Make of it what you will. We've heard this before, but maybe this time it's true.
TIME TO PANIC BUY!
Concrete admech news breaks and all of a sudden you come up with a rumor that finecast is disappearing forever. I see what you're doing... you're trying to hoard all the Admech that makes it down there for yourself by convincing others to empty their piggy banks on finecast stuff ahead of time!
ClockworkZion wrote: Eh, doen't surprise me. If true might be why Eldar, Tau and Marines were said to be getting releases this year, all have Finecast that needs updating.
That is a good point. But can they do all the Aspect Warrior in plas... wait... no... they're just going to cut them.
I guess we have another instance of "be careful what you wish for".
1 set of 5 bodies, like 30 head options and only enough options to make one of each of the aspects.
That's too bad. I was getting used to the material now too. Recently bought a finecast Kaptin Badrukk and the special ammo runts and their details were top-notch despite the stigma.
So long as this means updated plastic minis that's okay with me I guess.
ClockworkZion wrote: Eh, doen't surprise me. If true might be why Eldar, Tau and Marines were said to be getting releases this year, all have Finecast that needs updating.
If so, I'd kinda be really happy to see some of my character models get redone. Even if they were posed exactly the same, I'd get the chance to paint 'em again. If they ended up pose-able, I'd be ecstatic. Like pants on head happy.
Imagine if we lived in a world where one in ten iPhones were faulty out of the box, or one in ten new cars wouldn't drive off the forecourt? These are immensely complex machines, what we're talking about is filling a mould with some liquid so there are no bubbles and not taking it out til it's set properly.
I agree completely.
the 1/10 is my own personal experience from buying finecast, and I try to protect myself more from bad casts then others might. inspecting before i buy VERY carefully. so I hope that people don't start throwing the number around to much as anything to concrete. Heck when I see miscast finecast I don't put it back on the rack. I bring it to a FLGS/GW store employees and point out the unacceptable/detail destroying miscasts that shouldn't be no wear near a storefront.
Sadly I'm posative 1/10 is your best case scenario for finecast. I'm sure for some their experiences have been much worse then mine.
Wasn't the rumor last year that Forgeworld would replace Finecast? This could tie in to the plastic HH stuff, as that would also increase demand for Forgeworld product. Maybe GW will be heavily investing in FW's production capabilities this year?
Norn King wrote: I actually like finecast, if this is true.. I'll be sad :(
Drill a few holes in some forgeworld stuff, slop on some liquid green stuff to make nice straight edges uneven, and take all your left over sprues from plastic kits and glue them onto the model to simulate the finecast vent count. It'll be like they never stopped making it!
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, d'ya reckon they could do a combined Banshee/Fire Dragon/Scorpion box and a combined Reaper/Warp Spider box and then... a separate Hawk box?
And yes, I realise that I am derailing my own thread.
More like...
"Once there were many warrior aspects but as the Eldar race continues its millenia of decline they have dwindled to near nothingness...
Names like Fiery Angels, Blade Lions, Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions and Warp Spiders have become mere legends even to the most aged of the Eldar race"
However you may still use your old aspect warriors as Storm Guardians.
Norn King wrote: I actually like finecast, if this is true.. I'll be sad :(
Drill a few holes in some forgeworld stuff, slop on some liquid green stuff to make nice straight edges uneven, and take all your left over sprues from plastic kits and glue them onto the model to simulate the finecast vent count. It'll be like they never stopped making it!
Tell that to my order of Krieg where the lasguns were curled to the point they were basically hoops. Or my Avenger Strike Fighter I got that was missing the gunner's canopy. Just because FW makes it doesn't automatically make it good.
Resin is a material that has a lot of problems. It's fragile, it's prone to casting issues, and it can shrink when it cures creating so many gaps it's not funny. Sure Finecast was worse thanks to the filler material they were using and rushing it out the door before knowing how to fully work with the resin.
willb2064 wrote: Most newer non-plastic releases just say resin, no 'Finecast' branding.
For me, Finecast was the worse thing they have ever done - pretty much destroyed their reputation for quality within a month of launch.
Pretty much, I was under the impression that they're just calling Finecast items "resin" now. If you check out some of the site listings on GW, they say "resin figure" where they previously said "Finecast resin figure".
Combo boxes that contain resin and plastic don't always mention Finecast on them. It seems the F word is being scrubbed.
Manager in a local shop was showing us the "new" resin that is being used. It's uncannily similar, albeit slightly more bendy.
I liked finecast when I first saw it, loved the detail. Then I got my first figure and it was soft and brittle and broke when you looked at it. Not good for a gaming piece.
And then I got a few that had major deformities and I asked myself "what the heck? Is this normal?"
willb2064 wrote: Most newer non-plastic releases just say resin, no 'Finecast' branding.
For me, Finecast was the worse thing they have ever done - pretty much destroyed their reputation for quality within a month of launch.
Pretty much, I was under the impression that they're just calling Finecast items "resin" now. If you check out some of the site listings on GW, they say "resin figure" where they previously said "Finecast resin figure".
Combo boxes that contain resin and plastic don't always mention Finecast on them. It seems the F word is being scrubbed.
Manager in a local shop was showing us the "new" resin that is being used. It's uncannily similar, albeit slightly more bendy.
This was my impression of the situation. Same problem, but with new improved rebranding.
edit: at least when they called it finecast, it was easier to avoid.
stanman wrote: Fine cast dead? GOOD. Drag it's body through the streets, then mount it's head on a pike outside the city as a warning to others.
I laughed harder than I probably should have at this, exalted!
I can't wait to see the new plastic options! (Maybe, just maybe, we'll get an awesome new Tau Commander Battlesuit that matches the original concept art?)
I haven't had too many issues with Finecast, but I've only gotten like three models with it. I avoid models that are metal and finecast because I like the options that plastic gives you to convert cleanly and easily.
Anyway, for anyone following this, it's no news that Finecast was a stop-gap material. That's been known since shortly after it hit the scene. The move to plastic is strong and real, and we haven't seen any new kits in Finecast for several codices and army books.
With Games Workshop redoing Fantasy, they can kill off everything that's metal or finecast in those ranges, and make fresh new armies that are totally plastic. Since they started the End Times, no armies have been released, just kits for End Times. That in and of itself is telling.
But, even if they do manage to redo Fantasy such that no finecast needs to ever be bought, there's still large finecast gaps in the 40k ranges, particularly in Chaos Marines, Tau, and Eldar, and to a lesser extent in Orks and Space Marines as well, with a few one-off models in other codices...
In order to get rid of finecast completely, they'd have to stop supporting lots of special characters. I could see them doing that, honestly, since any characters that don't sell via finecast weren't selling anyway, and they can just write them out of the next book.
What's curious is their lack of new IC's in the latest Codices. The Dark Eldar HQ range went from pretty big to tiny, with almost all special characters disappearing from the range! The only characters we've gotten in plastic have been very generic Lords and such, which is good, since those are needed, but could Games Workshop be doing away with these special characters as they continue?
Could characters like Astorath, Rakarth, Lucius, and all the rest just... disappear as finecast stocks go low?
Honestly, I could see GW doing it. If they were going to do an End Times for 40k, this is how they would do it, by making an excuse to kill off as many characters and finecast leftover units as possible.
Part of the killing off of special characters was in regards to the chapterhouse debacle and whether or not those characters had minis in production. As to the rest, who knows?
I hope they don't kill off my Special characters for chaos and blood angels...
Please GW, don't kill Dante, Mephiston, Kharn, Typhus, Abaddon, Ahriman, Lucius, or fabius bile... Please don't kill them!
It would be good if they did do away with the finecast garbage.
I only have ever bought 1 finecast product and funny enough it was the last thing Ive bought from GW.
It was a Belial that has holes in one side of his extremely thin hood and edges of his robe. And he has a flaccid powersword to boot which wont straighten no matter how much I handle it.
Don't worry, they'll move the characters to dataslates (pay to win and all that), and the weekly release will let them release character models as they complete the resculpts.
I can only think of 2 new sculpts of named characters in the last couple of years.
Emperor Karl Franz (on a huge griffon) and Logan Grimnar (on the santa wolf cruiser).
And recently, some limited edition, new, not-codex, named characters in campaign boxes (4 new characters).
Perhaps a hint of their priorities when it comes to named characters these days.
(also remember they just killed of a huge chunk of fantasy heroes).
All in all, I thought this was news last year. Kind of obvious once they stoped releasing finecast with new releases.
Fayric wrote: I can only think of 2 new sculpts of named characters in the last couple of years.
Emperor Karl Franz (on a huge griffon) and Logan Grimnar (on the santa wolf cruiser).
And recently, some limited edition, new, not-codex, named characters in campaign boxes (4 new characters).
Perhaps a hint of their priorities when it comes to named characters these days.
(also remember they just killed of a huge chunk of fantasy heroes).
All in all, I thought this was news last year. Kind of obvious once they stoped releasing finecast with new releases.
Good point. It could be that they've known that these specific character models aren't making them money, but generic ones can be moved to plastic because they'll sell well since they represent any kind of HQ. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw fewer special characters and more of GW trying to hock 'forge the narrative'
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: I hope they don't kill off my Special characters for chaos and blood angels...
Please GW, don't kill Dante, Mephiston, Kharn, Typhus, Abaddon, Ahriman, Lucius, or fabius bile... Please don't kill them!
i don't see why they can't just decide to do these iconic characters in plastic...
Dante builds beautifully with the Sanguinary Guard box...
they can do one (like the last two years of HQ's) or two (like the new Khorne Character) sprue special characters in plastic if they want to...
Finecast is horrible...
even though there are bent FW parts, they seem to be far and few in between...
the actual casting is warped on all the Finecast pieces i have for my current commissions...
one in five guys isn't full of holes, but he is still warped, and has a very saggy sword...
the material is also very rubbery...
FW is not the best example of resin available...
some companies, like Studio McVey, do an excellent quality cast for their LE's in resin...
the Rackham legends line in 2009 was beautifully cast resin...
garage companies, like Figuralia in Spain, do amazing resin sculpts...
the thing is, these guys only get 50 to 75 casts out of each mold...
they aren't trying to stretch the molds out like FW does...
i hope Finecast goes away, and is not just a rebranding, like what we have on the site now...
they may just say "resin" on the GW site now, but as soon as you see the sprue, you can see nothing has changed but the name...
Fayric wrote: I can only think of 2 new sculpts of named characters in the last couple of years.
Emperor Karl Franz (on a huge griffon) and Logan Grimnar (on the santa wolf cruiser).
And recently, some limited edition, new, not-codex, named characters in campaign boxes (4 new characters).
Perhaps a hint of their priorities when it comes to named characters these days.
(also remember they just killed of a huge chunk of fantasy heroes).
All in all, I thought this was news last year. Kind of obvious once they stoped releasing finecast with new releases.
Not that I disagreew with you, but the new characters in campaign boxes are nice. Frankly, I prefer buying a $120 box that's good (modelling) value, and having a nice $20 solo miniature thrown in.
Also, to add to your list -- the current Nork Deddog model was released less than a year ago, wasn't it? April-ish 2014, at the same time as Bullgryns?
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: I hope they don't kill off my Special characters for chaos and blood angels...
Please GW, don't kill Dante, Mephiston, Kharn, Typhus, Abaddon, Ahriman, Lucius, or fabius bile... Please don't kill them!
i don't see why they can't just decide to do these iconic characters in plastic...
Dante builds beautifully with the Sanguinary Guard box...
they can do one (like the last two years of HQ's) or two (like the new Khorne Character) sprue special characters in plastic if they want to...
Finecast is horrible...
even though there are bent FW parts, they seem to be far and few in between...
the actual casting is warped on all the Finecast pieces i have for my current commissions...
one in five guys isn't full of holes, but he is still warped, and has a very saggy sword...
the material is also very rubbery...
FW is not the best example of resin available...
some companies, like Studio McVey, do an excellent quality cast for their LE's in resin...
the Rackham legends line in 2009 was beautifully cast resin...
garage companies, like Figuralia in Spain, do amazing resin sculpts...
the thing is, these guys only get 50 to 75 casts out of each mold...
they aren't trying to stretch the molds out like FW does...
i hope Finecast goes away, and is not just a rebranding, like what we have on the site now...
they may just say "resin" on the GW site now, but as soon as you see the sprue, you can see nothing has changed but the name...
bring on the plastic special characters!!!
cheers
jah
I should clarify, I want them to live, but finecast can jump off a cliff.
Imagine if we lived in a world where one in ten iPhones were faulty out of the box, or one in ten new cars wouldn't drive off the forecourt? These are immensely complex machines, what we're talking about is filling a mould with some liquid so there are no bubbles and not taking it out til it's set properly.
They probably are, but they don't sell those. That's what QC is for.
ClockworkZion wrote: A time will come when GW makes great kit options with the intent of giving customers a series of options at a low price.
Today is not that day.
Haha!
ClockworkZion wrote: Tell that to my order of Krieg where the lasguns were curled to the point they were basically hoops.
That was just a variant pattern Lasgun.
ClockworkZion wrote: Or my Avenger Strike Fighter I got that was missing the gunner's canopy.
You ordered the drop-top version!
ClockworkZion wrote: Just because FW makes it doesn't automatically make it good.
Resin is a material that has a lot of problems. It's fragile, it's prone to casting issues, and it can shrink when it cures creating so many gaps it's not funny. Sure Finecast was worse thanks to the filler material they were using and rushing it out the door before knowing how to fully work with the resin.
You are of course correct. That said, the newer the FW kit, the better it usually is. I mean I look at their Thunderhawk with dread, but their latest batch of 9 dozen Contemptors, they're probably ok.
Does anybody know who actually came up with the finecast mix?
Seriously, Matt Ward and Gav Thorpe had to face the hate just for rules, why does this shadowy weasel get off?
We've been told that the sales directives are responsible for pushing the direction of practically everything else within GW, from what gets new rules to new miniature releases. I'd hazard a guess that the brief was to keep production costs as low as possible, and that's why it ended up ultimately as a poorer quality resin.
So.. I would blame the managerial/executive level, rather than the guys who actually carry out the practical side of things, as no doubt they were just following the brief.
I do think it's very unlikely that the company will move back to metal though, given that the primary reason for moving away from it was material costs.
The finecast Noise Marine conversion parts I bought in December were good. After getting an Astorath who wasnt (lots of bubbles) I had decided to not buy another FC model - but I needed the parts and luckily those were a positive surprise. Won't buy anything else in finecast though. I have seen way too many miscast Finecast minis others got sold. No quality control department worth its name would ever allow the crap Finecast is to be sent to the customer. Hopefully they change back to metal until they have plastic kits for all the models currently without
I wouldnt be surprised if they tried getting in on the lasercutting scene by replacing all finecast models with highly detailed laser engraved silhouettes. They could market it as FineWood while its actually cardboard.
They could tank another financial report or two by doing this!
Question, does anyone else in the buisness use anything like that? I'm no expert on other systems, but when I look around I see either plastic or metal. FW stuff and Failcast are the only products that spring to mind as resin-based by design (and not by recasters).
Resin is extremely common, since it's the best way to do smaller production runs, so basically anyone who isn't one of the big dogs. No need to look further than the front page of this very forum to see several companies who produce resin stuff!
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, d'ya reckon they could do a combined Banshee/Fire Dragon/Scorpion box and a combined Reaper/Warp Spider box and then... a separate Hawk box?
And yes, I realise that I am derailing my own thread.
GW really, really should put Eldar in a starter box, just to get 3-4 cheap plastic Aspects out there ASAP, even if they're monopose.
The reported goal of GW was to go over to Plastic completely, Finecast was an interim product. So this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
I don't see Special Characters being too well covered though. A box with 2 or 3 like the recent End Times ones might work but that was part of a larger kit?
I have to ask - does anyone know is it not possible to cast the previously please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n figures in plastic?? Even if they have to make a new type of mould to cast in plastic, I'm presuming that they still have the master sculpts.....surely it wouldnt be too hard a thing to switch over all the ICs, old figs etc that they tried to flog in see previous comments.
Yeah, I've never bought a bad model in Finecast. I did always check the model over before buying though. I've bought plenty of poorly cast FoW and 20mm WW2 tanks in the past though.
It is something to be said of Finecast in that it replicates the workability of plastic somewhat. Trying to remove flash/miscast/vents from a brittle resin can be a bit hit or miss. Finecast cuts more like a plastic.
Januine wrote: I have to ask - does anyone know is it not possible to cast the previously cast figures in plastic?? Even if they have to make a new type of mould to cast in plastic, I'm presuming that they still have the master sculpts.....surely it wouldnt be too hard a thing to switch over all the ICs, old figs etc that they tried to flog in cast to plastic.......
Not really possible. Finecast/metal will use softer rubber mold which in turn allow undercutting and more dynamic posing.
Plastic molds are metal and do not have the give needed to drop out more fully formed character models, at least not ones with good poses.
With such different processes the Masters would have to be redone. Basically its a big Time/Cost exercise that is unlikely to be of benefit on models with limited future sales i.e. everyone probably has one already. Better to produce a new model/version that would have better sales.
Mymearan wrote: Resin is extremely common, since it's the best way to do smaller production runs, so basically anyone who isn't one of the big dogs. No need to look further than the front page of this very forum to see several companies who produce resin stuff!
I meant the big guys. Warmachine, Bolt Action, Infinity... I figure a lot of Kickstarter stuff is resin, but can you name a big, established system that uses the stuff?
Hmm... This might make me consider buying that Lord Commissar model I never got around to buy. I never really got around to use him but if I ever do, I'll be damned if I end up using that fugly plastic Commissar they released recently.
Mymearan wrote: Resin is extremely common, since it's the best way to do smaller production runs, so basically anyone who isn't one of the big dogs. No need to look further than the front page of this very forum to see several companies who produce resin stuff!
I meant the big guys. Warmachine, Bolt Action, Infinity... I figure a lot of Kickstarter stuff is resin, but can you name a big, established system that uses the stuff?
PP has several miniatures in resin, most of their larger models have most components made from resin.
I'm with Notprop on this one. When people talk about finecast problems, I'm left scratching my head at the fuss they're making. I stopped playing GW games about 2 years ago, and when I did play, I must have bought at least a dozen finecast products, and I never once had a problem. Maybe I was lucky?
I call it gak cast.
(Sorry, can't bypass the language filter)
This is great news!!!
GW is switching to all plastic!!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Januine wrote: I have to ask - does anyone know is it not possible to cast the previously please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n figures in plastic?? Even if they have to make a new type of mould to cast in plastic, I'm presuming that they still have the master sculpts.....surely it wouldnt be too hard a thing to switch over all the ICs, old figs etc that they tried to flog in see previous comments.
I see reds8n edited your post. Don't feel bad, its happened to me too.
Mymearan wrote: Resin is extremely common, since it's the best way to do smaller production runs, so basically anyone who isn't one of the big dogs. No need to look further than the front page of this very forum to see several companies who produce resin stuff!
I meant the big guys. Warmachine, Bolt Action, Infinity... I figure a lot of Kickstarter stuff is resin, but can you name a big, established system that uses the stuff?
Not sure if you consider them "big" or not, but Dropzone Commander is almost entirely (except 4/5 of the starter packs and the infantry) in resin. I've not had any issues with any of their models.
I really hope this is true. They have improved the quality since it came out, but its still prone to having bubbles and flaws in detailed areas. The only downside I could see is if they narrow the miniature line and only produce the "major" characters.
Kosake wrote: Question, does anyone else in the buisness use anything like that? I'm no expert on other systems, but when I look around I see either plastic or metal. FW stuff and Failcast are the only products that spring to mind as resin-based by design (and not by recasters).
Yep, they sure do, and any of the resin stuff I've bought off other companies like Kromlech has been flawless. Not 100% where GW went wrong with their resin, but word is it that they retained their metal moulds when they switched to finecast, as a cost-saver, and this was the cause of some if not all of the problems.
SpyderG6 wrote: I really hope this is true. They have improved the quality since it came out, but its still prone to having bubbles and flaws in detailed areas. The only downside I could see is if they narrow the miniature line and only produce the "major" characters.
I actually just put together my third finecast model ever (the tau link in my blog sig link below) and gave it a C+ overall compared with the previous F with the initial release. It's still much more prep work than resin from other companies including Forgeworld let alone metals. I don't have huge bubbles the size of pencil erasers like before but I still have plenty of uneven corners, gaps, and smaller bubbles that need fixing, most of which I didn't have to worry about previously with GW models.
I actually have to honestly see this bad news IMO.
The plastic clampack models are so characterless and overpriced that even with finecast being pretty gakky it was and is still far, far better than what we have now.
The plastic clampack models are so characterless and overpriced that even with finecast being pretty gakky it was and is still far, far better than what we have now.
The plastic clampack models are so characterless and overpriced that even with finecast being pretty gakky it was and is still far, far better than what we have now.
The general crappyiness of the clampack plastics is independent of the crappyiness of finecast. One isn't directly the cause for the other. GW could have either chosen to properly QA their resin offerings instead of letting ridiculously badly cast stuff out the door in droves like with the initial roll out and they could have actually come up with plastic kits that had some semblance of customization and value (like the space marine commander kit). I know you're not claiming otherwise but I figured I'd stress that neither the plastics nor finecast had to be so crappy.
It appears that GW did finecast A LOT for years.
Above: You can't tell what you're supposed to cut out on this sprue.
This looks less gakky.
Above: How do you cut them out? Especially without breaking anything?
Look at how uneven things are.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This one looks OK, but do you really need to hold the emblem in place that aggressivley?
And a finecast painboy with finecast grot orderly.
When will the switch from finecast to plastic happen?
Those aren't actually bad examples. They have flash and a large number of vents but at least they don't have bubbles the size of a figures head obliterating detail. Or missing or twisted sprues. The first NIB finecast model I ever saw opened was a space marine librarian with half the head of the staff missing due to a bubble along with part of the book that goes on his hump miscast and unfixable.
warboss wrote: Those aren't actually bad examples. They have flash and a large number of vents but at least they don't have bubbles the size of a figures head obliterating detail. Or missing or twisted sprues. The first NIB finecast model I ever saw opened was a space marine librarian with half the head of the staff missing due to a bubble along with part of the book that goes on his hump miscast and unfixable.
I always wonder if any sort of QC exists for Finecast they can't possibly be checking them and saying "Well the feet are twisted and gnarled like a terrier had it's way with them and the face has a giant bubble on it but it's a pass!"
warboss wrote: Those aren't actually bad examples. They have flash and a large number of vents but at least they don't have bubbles the size of a figures head obliterating detail. Or missing or twisted sprues. The first NIB finecast model I ever saw opened was a space marine librarian with half the head of the staff missing due to a bubble along with part of the book that goes on his hump miscast and unfixable.
I always wonder if any sort of QC exists for Finecast they can't possibly be checking them and saying "Well the feet are twisted and gnarled like a terrier had it's way with them and the face has a giant bubble on it but it's a pass!"
I'm assuming they're an equal opportunity employer who hires blind people to QC for them.
warboss wrote: Those aren't actually bad examples. They have flash and a large number of vents but at least they don't have bubbles the size of a figures head obliterating detail. Or missing or twisted sprues. The first NIB finecast model I ever saw opened was a space marine librarian with half the head of the staff missing due to a bubble along with part of the book that goes on his hump miscast and unfixable.
I always wonder if any sort of QC exists for Finecast they can't possibly be checking them and saying "Well the feet are twisted and gnarled like a terrier had it's way with them and the face has a giant bubble on it but it's a pass!"
I'm assuming they're an equal opportunity employer who hires blind people to QC for them.
Blind people would probably be a damn good QC for Finecast. Finding all the bubbles and holes would be like the inverse of Braille, so it should be easy as hell for them.
My two most recent purchases were a thunder fire cannon and Calgar with honor-guard. Thunderfire cannon went together pretty easy with only minor shaving needed to make the cannon barrel fit flush - the tech marine is beautiful - one of my favorite pieces yet. Calgar and retinue are also beautiful - only small bubbles on a few shoulder pads around the edges - look like bullet holes - I'm just leaving them but a little green stuff and it's good to go. For a serious modeler these are normal things to make a model look great anyways. These two kits totally changed my opinion on fine cast. I think it's possible they got better over the years. Maybe now they are just ridding themselves of the name because of it's stigma.
warboss wrote: Those aren't actually bad examples. They have flash and a large number of vents but at least they don't have bubbles the size of a figures head obliterating detail. Or missing or twisted sprues. The first NIB finecast model I ever saw opened was a space marine librarian with half the head of the staff missing due to a bubble along with part of the book that goes on his hump miscast and unfixable.
I always wonder if any sort of QC exists for Finecast they can't possibly be checking them and saying "Well the feet are twisted and gnarled like a terrier had it's way with them and the face has a giant bubble on it but it's a pass!"
There was a meme for that (although the pic has since been deleted from photobucket but lives on in google's servers as a thumbnail)...
warboss wrote: Those aren't actually bad examples. They have flash and a large number of vents but at least they don't have bubbles the size of a figures head obliterating detail. Or missing or twisted sprues. The first NIB finecast model I ever saw opened was a space marine librarian with half the head of the staff missing due to a bubble along with part of the book that goes on his hump miscast and unfixable.
I always wonder if any sort of QC exists for Finecast they can't possibly be checking them and saying "Well the feet are twisted and gnarled like a terrier had it's way with them and the face has a giant bubble on it but it's a pass!"
I'm assuming they're an equal opportunity employer who hires blind people to QC for them.
Blind people would probably be a damn good QC for Finecast. Finding all the bubbles and holes would be like the inverse of Braille, so it should be easy as hell for them.
That's assuming they were allowed to actually touch the models they're inspecting though. That's far too intelligent for GW.
Xenomancers wrote: I think it's possible they got better over the years. Maybe now they are just ridding themselves of the name because of it's stigma.
They definitely got better but that's not hard to do when you look at their starting point. A 3 year old dog turd smells better than a fresh one but that still doesn't make it a golden egg. The tau model I just did had roughly 3 areas of small bubbles with one not fixable (obscures details) that is covered by the pose, one easily fixable and acceptable, and another that is potentially fixable but requires me to make a sharp corner from liquid green stuff. YMMV but I won't be sad to see it go but I suspect as mentioned by others before that the material and method aren't going away but rather just the "Finecast" label/branding from packages. We'll likely keep seeing the same (quality of) models in resin just without the
The plastic clampack models are so characterless and overpriced that even with finecast being pretty gakky it was and is still far, far better than what we have now.
As I stated in my earlier post above, I find the new plastic Commissar to be extremely inferior to the Failcast/metal ones. However, I still think they have done many good plastic models and I'd much rather have a good character in plastic. My main beef with the new plastic characters is the absurd price tag.
The BA priest is a beautiful model, so is the BA librarian. The entire Harlequin character range is gorgeous. The SW and Ork characters from the deathclaw box were also good looking models.
Besides, it's not like the Failcast/metal range didn't have awfull sculpts either, it's simply a case of hit & miss as always. One week we have amazing nurgle blight knights, the next we have marine teletubbies centurions. As with characters; one week we have BA priest, the other week we have totem-faced Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun with a price tag that's not even funny.
The plastic clampack models are so characterless and overpriced that even with finecast being pretty gakky it was and is still far, far better than what we have now.
As I stated in my earlier post above, I find the new plastic Commissar to be extremely inferior to the Failcast/metal ones. However, I still think they have done many good plastic models and I'd much rather have a good character in plastic. My main beef with the new plastic characters is the absurd price tag.
The BA priest is a beautiful model, so is the BA librarian. The entire Harlequin character range is gorgeous. The SW and Ork characters from the deathclaw box were also good looking models.
Besides, it's not like the Failcast/metal range didn't have awfull sculpts either, it's simply a case of hit & miss as always. One week we have amazing nurgle blight knights, the next we have marine teletubbies centurions. As with characters; one week we have BA priest, the other week we have totem-faced Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun with a price tag that's not even funny.
I honestly like the new centurion models. Then again I like big hulky stuff like that. I also really like the new plastic wraithgard compared to the old crappy metal ones.
Finecast is to brittle for me. Details and fingers breaking of, small stuf that cant easily be fixed or glued on. Faces look ugly and sunk in.
And weapons either break or bend in storage.
Just a couple of weeks ago I got some old metal inquisitorial henchmen from a local store that still have some metal behind the counter.
It was weird how much I enjoyed those models compared to finecast.
Its sad, really, when I think sbout it.
Edit: but then again, I have friends that hate metal models with a passion; the chipped paint, the glueing together, the lack of converting possibilities, etc, and so forth.
Extremely good news if ture (and I think it is do to the fact that GW dont do new failcast modells) time to bring out the champagne and celebrate
"finecast" is the biggest mistake GW have done !
even the "good" finecast modells are bad ..I mean when "chinaforge" make better copys of the original is bad ..really bad
All the bubbels ..some small ones only show when you paint the modells ..the soft material ..all thin weapons brake, you cant defend that ..not at the price they asking
glad they ditch the embarrassing excuse for a "best modells"
Plastic , better resin , metal ..I dont care nothing can be worse then this !
The plastic clampack models are so characterless and overpriced that even with finecast being pretty gakky it was and is still far, far better than what we have now.
As I stated in my earlier post above, I find the new plastic Commissar to be extremely inferior to the Failcast/metal ones. However, I still think they have done many good plastic models and I'd much rather have a good character in plastic. My main beef with the new plastic characters is the absurd price tag.
The BA priest is a beautiful model, so is the BA librarian. The entire Harlequin character range is gorgeous. The SW and Ork characters from the deathclaw box were also good looking models.
Besides, it's not like the Failcast/metal range didn't have awfull sculpts either, it's simply a case of hit & miss as always. One week we have amazing nurgle blight knights, the next we have marine teletubbies centurions. As with characters; one week we have BA priest, the other week we have totem-faced Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun with a price tag that's not even funny.
I honestly like the new centurion models. Then again I like big hulky stuff like that. I also really like the new plastic wraithgard compared to the old crappy metal ones.
Yeah, I must admit that they DevCents have grown on me after I assembled them. The assault variant on the other hand, with the oversized pepper grinders on their wrists... *shudders*
@KaptinBadrukk -- I actually have one of those Finecast Hive Tyrant BNIB lol.
I prefer plastic models to finecast equivalents in probably 19 out of 20 models, and I think the plastic versions are easier to work with overall in every case.
However, the example of the Fire Dragon, or Urien Rakkarth (I have both in finecast) I actually don't mind the aspects of finecast that you mentioned at all. With the Fire Dragon, I snip all of the connection points with a pair of sprue cutters, about 2mm from the model. Then, I take a No. 11 knife and cut it down flush, lightly filing where necessary. I find that Finecast is actually much easier to de-sprue and remove mold lines than plastic, because a sharp knife cleanly slices it so easily.
I will say that if your method is to just snip everything off the sprue as closely to the model as possible and paint it, finecast is definitely a horrible material.
With Urien Rakkarth, I dunno; I don't really see anything special about taking it off the sprue. I guess I've been desensitized If you want to pick out a better example, I think Grotesques have some ambiguous parts. Some of the drug canisters are hard to tell where the model ends and the sprue begins (without checking the photo of the finished model). Ironically, it's not obvious at all, and you have to recreate a couple of rounded ends, which is silly, IMO. Also, the sandal is so thin that it looks like flash at a glance. Neither is really a problem, but both require more modelling effort, for sure.
My bigger problem with finecast in general is bubbles. I hate that -- in fairness, you see it in some PP metal minis too. Yes, it too is fixable; I just don't really like doing it
At the comments re quality of recent plastic individual models -- I just plainly have to disagree. There are a few models that were beautiful in Finecast, like Shadowseer. However, with a few exceptions (like DE Archon), the new plastics are beautifully posed, nicely sculpted, easy to build, and fairly problem free. Of course, some of that is just preference.
As to cost, yeah,the newer plastic HQs are more expensive (than the old resin ones)... but you know GW; that's their shtick. Even if it stayed resin, those new models would be more expensive.
Talys wrote: My bigger problem with finecast in general is bubbles. I hate that -- in fairness, you see it in some PP metal minis too. Yes, it too is fixable; I just don't really like doing it
Some models are better than others and for the most part I've done well with Finecast models. Yes, I've hit a few bad apples but I was (mostly) able to get those replaced. The other issue with Finecast that people seem to have forgot about is how soft and susceptible to heat it is. On a warm, sunny day your Finecast models can begin to sag and bend, requiring you to correct this manually with warm water or heat gun. Not such a wonderful thing to have to do to a painted model.
Talys wrote: @KaptinBadrukk -- I actually have one of those Finecast Hive Tyrant BNIB lol.
I prefer plastic models to finecast equivalents in probably 19 out of 20 models, and I think the plastic versions are easier to work with overall in every case.
However, the example of the Fire Dragon, or Urien Rakkarth (I have both in finecast) I actually don't mind the aspects of finecast that you mentioned at all. With the Fire Dragon, I snip all of the connection points with a pair of sprue cutters, about 2mm from the model. Then, I take a No. 11 knife and cut it down flush, lightly filing where necessary. I find that Finecast is actually much easier to de-sprue and remove mold lines than plastic, because a sharp knife cleanly slices it so easily.
I will say that if your method is to just snip everything off the sprue as closely to the model as possible and paint it, finecast is definitely a horrible material.
With Urien Rakkarth, I dunno; I don't really see anything special about taking it off the sprue. I guess I've been desensitized If you want to pick out a better example, I think Grotesques have some ambiguous parts. Some of the drug canisters are hard to tell where the model ends and the sprue begins (without checking the photo of the finished model). Ironically, it's not obvious at all, and you have to recreate a couple of rounded ends, which is silly, IMO. Also, the sandal is so thin that it looks like flash at a glance. Neither is really a problem, but both require more modelling effort, for sure.
My bigger problem with finecast in general is bubbles. I hate that -- in fairness, you see it in some PP metal minis too. Yes, it too is fixable; I just don't really like doing it
At the comments re quality of recent plastic individual models -- I just plainly have to disagree. There are a few models that were beautiful in Finecast, like Shadowseer. However, with a few exceptions (like DE Archon), the new plastics are beautifully posed, nicely sculpted, easy to build, and fairly problem free. Of course, some of that is just preference.
As to cost, yeah,the newer plastic HQs are more expensive (than the old resin ones)... but you know GW; that's their shtick. Even if it stayed resin, those new models would be more expensive.
OK. How was putting it together? Was it easy to paint? Was it more finecast or gak cast?
I see those pictures and all I want to do is grab a pair of clippers and knives and go to town on them.
I know there's something wrong with me when I get far more enjoyment cleaning a mess like that up and building it rather than actually painting or playing with it.
My experiences with finecast have all been pretty decent. I'm assuming I'm obviously in the minority. Unfortunately getting lizard and skaven heroes in anything besides finecast these days isn't exactly easy, and a few of the lizard heroes are only available in the stuff, like Gor Rok (who I really need to finish painting).
@easysauce: i must be one of the few people in the "i love metal models" camp...
Finceast is rubbery, and warped, even when it isn't full of bubbles...
like you said, though, i would be happy if they had used FW resin, even though it can need a bit of clean-up at times, it just feels like a better quality material, for me...
i was happy to avoid Finecast until recently, and am bummed that i have to use it for a couple of my current jobs...
i have a metal Thunderfire Cannon, and it goes together with no problem, but then i pin everything, in every material, since i paint all of my minis in sub-assemblies anyway...
i just got sent the Noise Marine upgrade set in Finecast, and it is warped all to hell...
thankfully, i talked my client into going with a FW Kakophoni Marine instead...
Lockark wrote: The source for this is a distributer. I got a feeling their might do just been a miscommunication and that fine cast will become a direct only item.
For how much fine cast retailers end up sending back....
that being said, why the frick dont they just use the same thing as FW.... cut some costs, and FW stuff works...
Heh, think about what you said and what it suggests: that Finecast is so cheap for GW to produce that they can replace the same model for a customer multiple times, and it would still be cheaper for GW than one Forgeworld model.
I certainly won't be sad to see the last of finecast; it's the tipping point that moved me away from GW in the first place, because the quality was so awful (I've made 12 purchases/replacements, 2 are bubbled and fragile but usable, the rest were scrap). That's an embarrasing failure rate for a DIY shop, let alone the market leader.
Not that I disagreew with you, but the new characters in campaign boxes are nice. Frankly, I prefer buying a $120 box that's good (modelling) value, and having a nice $20 solo miniature thrown in.
Also, to add to your list -- the current Nork Deddog model was released less than a year ago, wasn't it? April-ish 2014, at the same time as Bullgryns?
I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.
Lockark wrote: The source for this is a distributer. I got a feeling their might do just been a miscommunication and that fine cast will become a direct only item.
For how much fine cast retailers end up sending back....
Not that I disagreew with you, but the new characters in campaign boxes are nice. Frankly, I prefer buying a $120 box that's good (modelling) value, and having a nice $20 solo miniature thrown in.
Also, to add to your list -- the current Nork Deddog model was released less than a year ago, wasn't it? April-ish 2014, at the same time as Bullgryns?
I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.
Nork is part of the Ogryn kit, hence the price.
Honestly I like him like that because at least with plastics you get a lot of options on how to build him. Plus his bits can be used for Boneheads.
Wait, what? That's not very clear at all. I assumed it was for a single mini, and GW is nuts enough to charge that.
I re-read the description and it is for 3 generic Ogryns with an option to buy one, that's quite an improvement on the metal ones, but the way the list stuff on that website is awful (with alternate builds being a different item, and search for "ogryn" now showing the fething ogryns, I need to search for "ogryns". I dispair).
Lockark wrote: The source for this is a distributer. I got a feeling their might do just been a miscommunication and that fine cast will become a direct only item.
For how much fine cast retailers end up sending back....
I thought Finecast was already direct only.
Most of it already is yes, but their are a few items that are optional items the retailers can stock, and are stocked in GW stores. The Thunderfire cannon, The Space Marien Captains that came out for apoc, Fire Dragons and some of the other Aspect Warriors off the top of my head.
All of these are normal Items that GW's and FLGS's and stock. You can even check the GW website, and you will see these are not Web-store Exclusive Items.
I think it's just many people just THINK they are, because alot FLGS's got fed up with the unhappy customers coming back to them with swiss chesses for models.
I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.
Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
I liked the old one, but I mainly just don't like the new armor style at all. Also, all cousins of Vin Diesel everywhere are in tears now sir. Shame.
I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.
Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
i feel exactly the opposite, Zewrath...
i don't like the new look of Nork, at all..
i am very happy to own the original metal version, and want nothing to do with the new plastic version...
to each his own...
Zewrath wrote: The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
Sounds like your description of the old metal models is spot on with the art and fluff. Sounds like a feature, not a bug that you just doesn't appeal to your tastes.
Wait, what? That's not very clear at all. I assumed it was for a single mini, and GW is nuts enough to charge that.
I re-read the description and it is for 3 generic Ogryns with an option to buy one, that's quite an improvement on the metal ones, but the way the list stuff on that website is awful (with alternate builds being a different item, and search for "ogryn" now showing the fething ogryns, I need to search for "ogryns". I dispair).
It builds 3 Ogryns or Bullgryns in any combination or Nork plus either of the other two.
Lockark wrote: The source for this is a distributer. I got a feeling their might do just been a miscommunication and that fine cast will become a direct only item.
For how much fine cast retailers end up sending back....
Entirely possible, and I reserve the right to be completely wrong on this one. I'm just repeating what I heard.
ClockworkZion wrote: It builds 3 Ogryns or Bullgryns in any combination or Nork plus either of the other two.
Which is a good thing IMO. Price aside, if kits can include special characters in the same way they have Nork, then that's all the better.
I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.
Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
i feel exactly the opposite, Zewrath...
i don't like the new look of Nork, at all..
i am very happy to own the original metal version, and want nothing to do with the new plastic version...
to each his own...
cheers
jah
Well, fair enough. There's no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to opinions... But why does your reply remind me of a haiku poem?
warboss wrote:
Zewrath wrote: The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
Sounds like your description of the old metal models is spot on with the art and fluff. Sounds like a feature, not a bug that you just doesn't appeal to your tastes.
jah-joshua wrote: @easysauce: i must be one of the few people in the "i love metal models" camp...
Finceast is rubbery, and warped, even when it isn't full of bubbles...
like you said, though, i would be happy if they had used FW resin, even though it can need a bit of clean-up at times, it just feels like a better quality material, for me...
Spoiler:
i was happy to avoid Finecast until recently, and am bummed that i have to use it for a couple of my current jobs...
i have a metal Thunderfire Cannon, and it goes together with no problem, but then i pin everything, in every material, since i paint all of my minis in sub-assemblies anyway...
i just got sent the Noise Marine upgrade set in Finecast, and it is warped all to hell...
thankfully, i talked my client into going with a FW Kakophoni Marine instead...
cheers
jah
I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.
Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(
ClockworkZion wrote: It builds 3 Ogryns or Bullgryns in any combination or Nork plus either of the other two.
Which is a good thing IMO. Price aside, if kits can include special characters in the same way they have Nork, then that's all the better.
Agreed. Makes kitbashing custom characters easier too.
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Jehan-reznor wrote: The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.
Some of my best exercise was when I had to carry my Sisters army up and down the stairs when I lived on the 3rd floor so I could bring them to the FLGS for games.
@Jehan-reznor: i'm a surfer, so i'm in good enough shape to carry around an Army Transport full of metal with no problems...
@H.B.M.C.: the only time i have had a problem with metal breaking is with Rackham's spindly ankles, and tiny connection points on the swords...
something like the alloy that Crocodile Games uses is way more robust than the Rackham alloy...
GW seemed to have a pretty good mix going...
i look at the bent sword on the Finecast Tzeentch Sorcerer that came in the mail, and i just pray that it will straighten, and stay straight, because i have a feeling i will be using that bit in the conversion i am building...
at least the bolt pistol, which i know i'm using, is too small to be bent...
amazingly, it is a pretty clean cast!!!
Tigurius' bolt pistol, not so much:(...
I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.
Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(
I always rather liked the metal figs. Think it was the weight involved; like the feel of something with a bit of substance. Then again I never had to haul a tonne of them around as I only really paint and model.
jah-joshua wrote: @H.B.M.C.: the only time i have had a problem with metal breaking is with Rackham's spindly ankles, and tiny connection points on the swords...
something like the alloy that Crocodile Games uses is way more robust than the Rackham alloy...
GW seemed to have a pretty good mix going...
Sorry, I really should clarify. When I say break I don't mean as in the metal breaks, more just that the models keep falling apart due to tiny pathetic connection points (Diaz's Daemonettes being the worst offenders). It's frustrating and happens constantly.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.
Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.
It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.
Either that, or a Chaos warp quake will destroy the entire galaxy, and then some dude will somehow recreate it---and only models in plastic will exist.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.
Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.
It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.
I don't care one bit. Those "models" might as well not exist because I'm never going to throw away money on finecast, so making them officially not exist is no real loss. In fact, since those models are gone (and will presumably take their rules with them unless GW releases a plastic version), I won't have to feel like I'm at a disadvantage because I can't use some of the units in my army.
jah-joshua wrote: @H.B.M.C.: the only time i have had a problem with metal breaking is with Rackham's spindly ankles, and tiny connection points on the swords...
something like the alloy that Crocodile Games uses is way more robust than the Rackham alloy...
GW seemed to have a pretty good mix going...
Sorry, I really should clarify. When I say break I don't mean as in the metal breaks, more just that the models keep falling apart due to tiny pathetic connection points (Diaz's Daemonettes being the worst offenders). It's frustrating and happens constantly.
Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.
I hate metal, and yet I'd adore a change back to it. FineCost really is that bad.
Of course, the change from metal to FineCost and back to metal again means probably 200% the cost of when it was first metal.
ClockworkZion wrote: Eh, doen't surprise me. If true might be why Eldar, Tau and Marines were said to be getting releases this year, all have Finecast that needs updating.
That is a good point. But can they do all the Aspect Warrior in plas... wait... no... they're just going to cut them.
I guess we have another instance of "be careful what you wish for".
Well H.B.M.C, I agree with you. Then again, I should probably elaborate my stance, just for the record, since I try to give old models a second chance. All I have are modern tacticals with some Forgeworld bits mixed in. All my leader characters such as my Sergeants, Techmarine, Librarian, Dreadnought, tank marines are metal models from 1st or 2nd edition (Though I do have two beakies and a figure from 1985 mixed in too.) Basically, all my leaders except for my Sons of Orar Captain (who is a Forgeworld Praetorian model with GW and Maxmini bits.)
That being said, I have seen enough Finecrud to steer me clear from the material. Though I hated metal at first, until I learned how to pin. Now it is my favorite material. *Unless I am cutting off a helmet, I learned real quick not to breath that in...)
While you don't have a source, I actually trust a rumor coming from you as well. Though take that with salt as I'm not important in the grand scheme of things.
I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.
Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(
I always rather liked the metal figs. Think it was the weight involved; like the feel of something with a bit of substance. Then again I never had to haul a tonne of them around as I only really paint and model.
Heh, my dreadnought turned 21 this year. GW 1993, metal. With a SWM base, building bits and a Space Marine on it (diorama styled base,) it is super heavy. I was taking a painting lesson at my FLGS the other day and he fell. The only thing that broke was a banner pole I made from styrene. His black undercoat got scrapped. The parking lot (old asphalt that is probably upwards of 7 years old,) got dented. Aside from touch up on the paint and new pole, he was a-okay.
If it was a Contemptor or even a plastic dread, he'd be terrain I am sure of it. I also love the weight of my metal Techmarine. It just feels better when I move it compared to a plastic model.
Screw you guys who got to be around during RT and 2nd lol.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Pinning! man! I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
Do you also have a philosophical issue with using glue to assemble your models? I can understand being annoyed when poor design makes pinning necessary, but refusing to assemble your models correctly because you refuse to accept that they need something you don't like doesn't make any sense. And they clearly do need pinning since you just complained about how the joints are too fragile and won't stay together with glue alone.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.
hahahahahahaha
at least you know you're being stubborn...
i am the exact opposite, and pin everything...
my stance comes from only painting my models in sub-assemblies anyway, so the pin is already there once assembly time rolls around...
my plastic Sanguinary Guard version of Commander Dante is sitting here in eight parts for painting, body, head, each arm, each wing, and jump pack, all with pins for holding in X-acto handles, and then the base...
...and, yes, i know i'm crazy, but i'm a perfectionist...
Kid_Kyoto wrote: to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.
Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.
It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.
Really well put, it's incredible that FC has been poor enough that right now people are actually pleased that some of the miniature range is not going to be available at all. It's incredible how perceptions have changed in just a few short years.
I have no time at all for the current game editions, but I've had so many character pieces from GW over the years and if this comes to pass it will be a monumental moment, and really, really sad. Really, the end of an era, because as good as plastics are and continue to be, they can't match the high-end character sculpts that are only possible in metal and resin. No amount of sprue options and easy conversions are going to change that.
Pacific wrote: Really well put, it's incredible that FC has been poor enough that right now people are actually pleased that some of the miniature range is not going to be available at all.
But, again, that portion of the miniature range isn't available at all right now. A "model" that is finecast might as well not exist at all. It certainly isn't a product that any sane person would ever willingly buy. All this change does is stop giving an advantage to the players who are willing to throw away money on defective "models" because they don't care how awful it looks as long as it has rules that they want.
Peregrine wrote: All this change does is stop giving an advantage to the players who are willing to throw away money on defective "models" because they don't care how awful it looks as long as it has rules that they want.
Zewrath wrote: Wauw... This statement.. Is this for real?
Yes. Let's consider Tau sniper drones as an example. They're a finecast model, which means they might as well not exist because I'm not going to throw away money on a defective product. Unless I put a lot of extra work into converting my own version of the unit (or ebay the old metal ones, which isn't an option for finecast kits that were never available in metal) I'm going to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who doesn't care about having defective models and buys the sniper drones. If GW removes the model (presumably followed by the rules) then we're back to a level playing field.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
There is also the problem that many of the largest models have rules saying they cannot be pinned.
Zewrath wrote: Wauw... This statement.. Is this for real?
Yes. Let's consider Tau sniper drones as an example. They're a finecast model, which means they might as well not exist because I'm not going to throw away money on a defective product. Unless I put a lot of extra work into converting my own version of the unit (or ebay the old metal ones, which isn't an option for finecast kits that were never available in metal) I'm going to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who doesn't care about having defective models and buys the sniper drones. If GW removes the model (presumably followed by the rules) then we're back to a level playing field.
Can't say that I agree but if that's your opinion.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.
hahahahahahaha
at least you know you're being stubborn...
i am the exact opposite, and pin everything...
my stance comes from only painting my models in sub-assemblies anyway, so the pin is already there once assembly time rolls around...
my plastic Sanguinary Guard version of Commander Dante is sitting here in eight parts for painting, body, head, each arm, each wing, and jump pack, all with pins for holding in X-acto handles, and then the base...
...and, yes, i know i'm crazy, but i'm a perfectionist...
cheers
jah
I'm with you Jah.
But like HBMC says, it was a chore. That is until Lord Jebus Cripes invented;
I should point out that this is certainly not my ideal situation. I want GW to replace finecast with real resin (including decent quality control) so that all of those models become available to people like me, but that's apparently not an option.
GW are going to plastic. i.e. Ogryn/Nork box or Mortarh/Mannfred/Neferata/Arkhan box or the odd single character sprues that have been appearing for the last 2 years.
Its conceivable that special characters will be done by FW but I see no evidence of this.
Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.
I quite like the old one, the new ones just make me want to shout "Hey you guys!" all the time.
Peregrine wrote: I should point out that this is certainly not my ideal situation. I want GW to replace finecast with real resin (including decent quality control) so that all of those models become available to people like me, but that's apparently not an option.
This would be the ideal; going back to a low-production medium that works, be it metal or real resin. But I can only see them going all plastic at this rate and dropping half of the range. Still, I can get resin/metal minis from other manufacturers anyway.
I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand I liked finecast better than metal... but then again I think I hate metal because as a kid when I first started I couldnt get models to stay together and if I did manage to get something to stick it was usually an arm or something superglued to my finger. I still remember how I never finished my first hive tyrant...
On the other hand I kinda hope they have something new in the works, posable special characters with all the options would be fantastic...
KaptinBadrukk wrote: OK. How was putting it together? Was it easy to paint? Was it more finecast or gak cast?
I'm not sure if you mean the Urien Rakkarth or the Grotesque, though I guess it's not much different. It's hard to say, because they come from an age when there weren't plastic SC's yet. At the time, it was certainly more trouble than a metal SC, but you wouldn't have seen a metal SC with as many tiny parts as Rakkarth (or Grotesque). Well, really, there weren't infantry plastic models with as many parts as that either, though I think retrospectively, Kabalites were one of the first plastic MPP kits that just felt awesome to model, for me. They just seemed a cut above others of the time, like all the Space Marines sets.
Once prepped, neither Urien nor Grotesque were particularly hard to paint (nor most of the original Dark Eldar finecast models, like the Succubus).
Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for new plastic versions of 'em I just have a little less animosity for the finecast, is all. I always did understand that they were more "advanced" from a hobby perspective, in that they took more time and love to get prepped.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GearheadXII wrote: I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand I liked finecast better than metal... but then again I think I hate metal because as a kid when I first started I couldnt get models to stay together and if I did manage to get something to stick it was usually an arm or something superglued to my finger. I still remember how I never finished my first hive tyrant...
On the other hand I kinda hope they have something new in the works, posable special characters with all the options would be fantastic...
When I was a kid, I loved metal models -- but the original ones were lead, not pewter, and lead was so much nicer a material IMO. The larger metal models were always problematic someone explained how pinning worked (this was before the days of the Interwebs hahaha). Then again, back then Ogryn were big models LOL.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Peregrine wrote: I should point out that this is certainly not my ideal situation. I want GW to replace finecast with real resin (including decent quality control) so that all of those models become available to people like me, but that's apparently not an option.
If GW would just stock and ship Forgeworld stuff, that would solve the problem, no?
The thing is, I'm even willing to pay the FW model prices. Frankly, many models don't feel that much more expensive (especially considering that they're low run). But, the shipping and *DUTIES* kill me. I either place a little order and pay through the nose (but usually don't need to pay duty), or get free shipping with a bigger order, but then stuck with duty, custom import fees, and all that crap.
@Talys: calling Finecast more "advanced" for the hobbyist is a poor rational for it's plethora of holes that need to be filled in order to have a well prepped model, ready for a quality paintjob...
i have Urien in metal, as he was available for about 6 months in metal, before being switched to Finecast...
while his arms certainly need pinning if you are ever going pick him up after assembly, the cast is flawless...
i can only imagine the amount of little holes that would be in those tentacles he is floating on and the tubes on his back in Finecast, if the hoses on Tigurius' backpack and the tubes on the side of Sgt. Chronus in Finecast are anything to go by...
which is a bummer, considering that my metal versions of those
two characters are perfect casts...
i certainly don't want to see characters and models disappear either, but i never wanted to see the move away from metal anyway...
if mono-pose plastics are our best hope for future characters, then i am all for it...
GW has definitely pushed my conversion and sculpting skills, anyway, by forcing me to build better versions of their special characters using plastic kits, which is fine by me...
I'm not sure if you mean the Urien Rakkarth or the Grotesque, though I guess it's not much different. It's hard to say, because they come from an age when there weren't plastic SC's yet. At the time, it was certainly more trouble than a metal SC, but you wouldn't have seen a metal SC with as many tiny parts as Rakkarth (or Grotesque).
Once prepped, neither Urien nor Grotesque were particularly hard to paint (nor most of the original Dark Eldar finecast models, like the Succubus).
.
Specs: Trollcast is a hard (75D) heat resistant plastic resin. It is much harder, and tougher, than normal resin. Trollcast can withstand 320F, and can handle prolonged exposure at 150F with ease (so our Australian friends should not have any problems during the summer). It can be super-glued together, and takes standard miniature paints easily (we recommend you wash the figures first with warm water, soap and a toothbrush to remove any mold release agent that might still be on the miniature.)
Safety: Trollcast should never be exposed to direct flame. Other than this , Trollcast has no special safety precautions, the dust in non- carcinogenic. However: all material dusts will irritate the lining of the lungs, and make existing conditions worse, so we recommend wearing a dust mask. Better safe than sorry!
Trollcast is safe to expose to INDIRECT heat. Unlike many plastics (PVC etc.) it does not give off toxic vapours. Heating Trollcast to 320F from indirect heat is safe, and a good way to soften the material in order to reposition parts (then plunge into cold water to set). AGAIN DO NOT EXPOSE TROLLCAST TO AN OPEN FLAME. Heck .. do not expose any resin or plastic toy from any company to direct flame. It is just a REALLY bad idea okay.
I suspect the reason that the material was chosen over the resin used by Forgeworld is speed - that it likely cures to a point where it can be removed from the mold in less time.
Important, given the numbers that GW would need to meet.
It is also likely that they had some test runs, possibly by the company supplying the resin and equipment, and those test runs went well enough.
When being used in ideal circumstances by well trained experts, and no corners were cut.
Then, in the wild... the workers were less well trained, and creating models using much more complicated molds. Quite possibly people that were used to the much wider tolerances of working with metal.
And the QA folks were either not trained in what to look for, unable to spot problems, or given a quota of the numbers that had to pass inspection, or just not given the time needed to do the intensive QA needed. (I suspect a combination of all of those.)
Findcash was not an ideal material to begin with, but the problems were exacerbated by the lack of company wide preparation for the new material.
That the new material coincided with a price hike... really helped cement Failcraft as a failure on most possible levels.
The Auld Grump, and when Gandalf melts in the brutal sunshine of Leeds....
So if FC is finally dumped what happens to kits that are now currently only in FC and have no plans/rumours for an update?
eg Deathleaper, Banshees etc.
Ratius wrote: So if FC is finally dumped what happens to kits that are now currently only in FC and have no plans/rumours for an update?
eg Deathleaper, Banshees etc.
Obviosly, they become plastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.
GearheadXII wrote: Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?
Both. FW resin is much sturdier and doesn't suffer from details crumbling off at the slightest touch or models bending under their own weight. And while FW's quality control is frustratingly bad it's still way better than finecast. Models usually require some cleanup work, but the flaws are usually things that are fairly easy to fix (bending warped parts in hot water, easy gap filling on flat surfaces, etc) and parts that are so bad they have to be replaced are rare. Finecast, on the other hand, often has bubbles and broken parts in detailed areas where you'd have to re-sculpt the model yourself and virtually every model is defective to the point that it needs to be replaced.
In short: FW resin is annoying to deal with but gives you a legitimate model in the end, finecast is always trash.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheAuldGrump wrote: And the QA folks were either not trained in what to look for, unable to spot problems, or given a quota of the numbers that had to pass inspection, or just not given the time needed to do the intensive QA needed. (I suspect a combination of all of those.)
Alternatively, GW just made a decision that most of their customers have very low standards for model quality (as demonstrated by the number of players with hordes of gray models thrown carelessly into a box with a pile of broken pieces at the bottom) and won't care about the casting problems. Sure, the minority who do care will cost GW some sales, but maybe they felt that the loss was small relative to the increased profit from selling a cheaper product at a higher price to the majority.
Many pictures show Finecast models being twisted and deformed. That's a sign they're being pulled from the mould to soon before they're cured. GW are clearly in a rush, is it any wonder the QC was scant?
Years ago in GWHQ you could see them casting through a window, they'd often cast things to order from back catalogues if it wasn't in stock. The guy would pop all the models out, look the over and plop a few duds back in the melting pot. I find it hard to believe that the people casting finecast couldn't see the issues as it was coming out unless they didn't care or were in too much of a rush. Further, I suspect the way that finecast cannot be recycled in the same way as metal (straight back in the pot to use again, means they are more inclined to let duds through. Just my opinion of course.
jah-joshua wrote: @Talys: calling Finecast more "advanced" for the hobbyist is a poor rational for it's plethora of holes that need to be filled in order to have a well prepped model, ready for a quality paintjob...
i have Urien in metal, as he was available for about 6 months in metal, before being switched to Finecast...
while his arms certainly need pinning if you are ever going pick him up after assembly, the cast is flawless...
i can only imagine the amount of little holes that would be in those tentacles he is floating on and the tubes on his back in Finecast, if the hoses on Tigurius' backpack and the tubes on the side of Sgt. Chronus in Finecast are anything to go by...
which is a bummer, considering that my metal versions of those
two characters are perfect casts...
i certainly don't want to see characters and models disappear either, but i never wanted to see the move away from metal anyway...
if mono-pose plastics are our best hope for future characters, then i am all for it...
GW has definitely pushed my conversion and sculpting skills, anyway, by forcing me to build better versions of their special characters using plastic kits, which is fine by me...
cheers
jah
I put the "advanced" in quotes for a reason I think finecast is more advanced in the sense that you need to be a better hobbyist to make it work; I do NOT think finecast is more advanced (than metal or plastic) in the sense that it is better. The tons of tiny parts thing really came with the advent of finecast, and has now carried over into plastic (to a slightly lesser degree... but not by much). I don't mind all the parts if it's to solve a problem (like undercuts).
My biggest question with the plastic solos is what pieces to pre-glue,and which ones to paint first, then model, in order to get the best result. Which is really nice -- in Finecast, you really have no choice; because of poor fit you often MUST put it together first, and fill all the gaps and remediate all the deficiencies.
I agree with you in terms of converting plastic kits into solos. That is definitely the way to go for many models now, and like you say, it's fun to do, and heck of a lot cheaper
You knew this was going to happen when they changed out the tools last May. The brush in the old moldline remover kit was for finecast. There's no brush in the new tools line. They got rid of the razor saw. No more metal. (At least, that's
what I understand is one of the things it was supposed to be used for).
I have several finecast models, and I hate it. My first finecast model has broken just by sitting around in foam in the bag, being transported. (It's one of the old zooanthropes.) The first venomthrope I had quite a few bubbles and needed patching with greenstuff when I got it.
All my fiance's finecast incubi are broken, just sitting around in foam in the bag, being transported. Some of the swords were bent in the first place when he got them.
I stopped buying finecast. I scoured around looking for metal models, because I'd rather have an metal model (even a slightly bent and used one) than a failcast piece of that breaks just carrying it around.
I'd rather have plastic than anything else, but I'd rather have metal than finecast garbage.
Now, I've bought a couple of finecast models here,and there (and I might have to in the future, before it gets replaced) but only because the price of that particular metal model is $$$, if you can even find it for sale.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I forgot, the last new models that came in out in finecast were Hobbit models...but that line will go away in the near future..
Jehan-reznor wrote: Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.
I like resin models and even have my own resin casting company, but I absolutely hate the finecast resin.
Whatever they use is pretty low grade and brittle. I suspect they are using a lot of filler material in it which is why it's so light and soft. Every finecast model that I've purchased has had serious issues with air bubbles. I work with resin extensively and I'm used to putting in a bit of work on my models but the issues with the finecast stuff were not easy repairs. I purchased a Tau Commander at the local bunker and it was full of miscasts, took it back and bought a second one which I opened there and again it had the same issues with bubbles and the jet pack was so badly aligned it was basically garbage. The manager said lets crack open stuff until we get this sorted out and we'd open a kit and take the usable pieces out. It took us a total of 5 kits to to get a suitable model and even then it needed the typical assembly care that other resin models need. (so it wasn't like I had a perfect pristine model)
I'd also bough some dark eldar kits which had partially formed weapons, missing toes etc. Given that they charge a premium for finecast those defects are not acceptable. The quality control on them is pretty bad, they also spin cast the resin which doesn't eliminate bubbles as well as using a pressure/vacuum combination. The final kiss of death is that they don't let the molds sit and cure long enough and by pulling the sprues out too soon they end up with stretched and distorted casts.
Forge World uses a much better grade of resin that isn't spin cast, which results in a more dense and durable product. I've never had any of the issues with FW resin that the finecast products are rife with. IMO the FW process and materials are vastly better.
I'm very glad that they are getting rid of finecast. I hope that they bring back the metal models as I've never had issues with GW's metals and if they plan to keep some sort of resin line I hope they adopt FW's process (and not use spin cast resin)
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.
There is also the problem that many of the largest models have rules saying they cannot be pinned.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.
Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.
It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.
Really well put, it's incredible that FC has been poor enough that right now people are actually pleased that some of the miniature range is not going to be available at all. It's incredible how perceptions have changed in just a few short years.
I have no time at all for the current game editions, but I've had so many character pieces from GW over the years and if this comes to pass it will be a monumental moment, and really, really sad. Really, the end of an era, because as good as plastics are and continue to be, they can't match the high-end character sculpts that are only possible in metal and resin. No amount of sprue options and easy conversions are going to change that.
Were I an Eldar player I would be panicking about what this rumored new codex might mean.
Yeah it MIGHT mean new plastic aspect warriors etc...
But it could also mean that, opps, we forgot to tell you all the aspects except Dire Avengers died off.
jah-joshua wrote: @easysauce: i must be one of the few people in the "i love metal models" camp...
Finceast is rubbery, and warped, even when it isn't full of bubbles...
like you said, though, i would be happy if they had used FW resin, even though it can need a bit of clean-up at times, it just feels like a better quality material, for me...
Spoiler:
i was happy to avoid Finecast until recently, and am bummed that i have to use it for a couple of my current jobs...
i have a metal Thunderfire Cannon, and it goes together with no problem, but then i pin everything, in every material, since i paint all of my minis in sub-assemblies anyway...
i just got sent the Noise Marine upgrade set in Finecast, and it is warped all to hell...
thankfully, i talked my client into going with a FW Kakophoni Marine instead...
cheers
jah
I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.
Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(
I didnt hate metal, except putting it together having to pin it all and conversions suck....
I remember hating all the metal monsters for nids... super heavy peices,
finecast I can clean and so on faster then metal, the one peice models like catachans and other IG I still really like, but large metal models were a major PITA....
fine cast isnt as bad as some make it out to be, but no reason not to use FW at this point.
but hey, even FW stuff bubbles a lot I find, but they and GW always replace it for free no questions asked in my experience
A lot of the ease of assembly for metal models has to do with how they are designed. For instance, Corvus Belli's newest metals go together very, very well and require absolutely no pinning. I built my entire Anaconda TAG without pinning a single piece and it feels rock solid. Some of the newer infantry, like in Operation Icestorm, have a neat square peg thing going on to connect joints that makes assembly very easy.
I only ever bought 2 things in Finecast and they were fine. No massive flaws, but they definitely don't look as sharp as the metal equivalents. The price hike on such a dubious material is really the greatest crime.
Dendarien wrote: I only ever bought 2 things in Finecast and they were fine. No massive flaws, but they definitely don't look as sharp as the metal equivalents. The price hike on such a dubious material is really the greatest crime.
Agree completely. None of the FineCost things I own - which is, like 4 models total - are really all that bad. The price is bad, because it's absurd that they went to a (very) cheap material yet things went up. Still, the fact that some people had to go back 5 times to get a decent model, well, it just made me not want to buy anything in FineCost, even when I adore the model (like the Undead Wight King dude with the huge axe).
I have gone out of my way to avoid buying finecast after a couple of bad experiences with it early on and have only purchased things I was going to carve up since then.
Could not be happier to see the back of it.
Anxious to see what happens to everything that's currently made in it; there's a heck of a lot of models across lines that are still finecast and I imagine that the total outlay to create plastic versions of these would be huge.
I haven't got much experience on material, but there is nothing wrong in few Finecast minis I own, and of the ~dozen or so I have observed, only one had serious casting error. All were, of course, from later patches.
I mostly prefer it to metal except for some smaller figures I think it is too brittle. Metal BFG battleships are absolute horror to assemble, paint and handle and I would have happily bought Finecast ones had they been available.
I am not that big fan of Forgeworld resin: it usually arrives in horribly warped condition, sure it is usually fixable but annoying nevertheless.
Ratius wrote: GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.
Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?
I mean, they're all Citadel miniatures, right? They're all made at the same place, by the same people, on the same equipment....right?
Same place, yes. (Well, same facility, but I think different areas.)
Same people and equipment, no.
The Auld Grump
I mean, I know resin models are not made on the same equipment as plastic models. But I just can't imagine that FW resin models are made on different equipment than GW resin models. The moulds must be made by one entity, you know? And, the goo must be from one place. It's not like GW is getting different goo than FW.
Ratius wrote: GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.
Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?
I mean, they're all Citadel miniatures, right? They're all made at the same place, by the same people, on the same equipment....right?
Same place, yes. (Well, same facility, but I think different areas.)
Same people and equipment, no.
The Auld Grump
I mean, I know resin models are not made on the same equipment as plastic models. But I just can't imagine that FW resin models are made on different equipment than GW resin models. The moulds must be made by one entity, you know? And, the goo must be from one place. It's not like GW is getting different goo than FW.
You might think so, but again, no.
Different material for the resins - and a completely different way of casting those resins.
Sad to say, the Forge World resin and machines are older. Finecast was supposed to be the New and Improved material.... Spincasting is much faster - and that turned out to be its only advantage.
I mean, I know resin models are not made on the same equipment as plastic models. But I just can't imagine that FW resin models are made on different equipment than GW resin models. The moulds must be made by one entity, you know? And, the goo must be from one place. It's not like GW is getting different goo than FW.
I doubt they're made from the similar moulds either. FW resin is different (harder and sharper on corners) with a large triangular wall sprue at the bottom that is impossible to warp whereas GW finecast has a plastic style surrounding sprue that almost always is warped. A few years back, FW actually moved production over to china but then brought it back to the UK supposedly because of counterfeit models sneaking out of the factory and being sold (is it really counterfeit if it is made at the same place by the same guys? Illegally made? Sure..counterfeit... not sure). That obviously didn't stop anyone since FW models are now just bought and recasted anyways. Back when Finecast was introduced and the QA was at its worst, IIRC the US Memphis factory was still in operation and the models were made there (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that). Even if they're made in the same general facility together, I suspect that the GW and FW casters are not one in the same as the material and methods differ.
Hmm. Interesting. I actually interviewed at the Memphis office a few years ago and the chap there told me that yeah, along with closing down the China factory, they also shut down the Memphis production facilities as well.
heartserenade wrote: Fiecast made me realize that GW does not care about their customers, so I stopped playing 40k soon after.
BRING BACK METAL. Or use better resin.
Then they will have a price hike to pay for replacing the machines that they threw out and to replace the masters....
And if there is any possible way for them to screw up going back to the old material then GW will find it.
The Auld Grump - bitter? Me? NO!(Well, maybe a little.)
My understanding is that part of the reason the Finecast material was chosen is it could use the same machinery as the metal models. I have approximately zero knowledge of how to cast models, so if one of the experts in here knows if this is possible or not please let me know.
My understanding is that part of the reason the Finecast material was chosen is it could use the same machinery as the metal models. I have approximately zero knowledge of how to cast models, so if one of the experts in here knows if this is possible or not please let me know.
I would think so. Some of the models you can get in finecast are exactly the same model as some of the ones that were produced in metal. I wouldn't be surprised if the molds had to be changed, but I doubt it was anything major..
I have current edition biovore and lictors in metal..and those are finecast now.
They would spin cast the metal minatures. You could poor resin into that same machine. It would probably account for why there were so many issues with bubbles. Normally you would gravity pour resin, and maybe vacuum it to remove air bubbles. You wouldn't be able to vacuum molds in a spin caster.
I'm not sure how much longer my luck will hold out with Finecast.
The few figures I've bought have been decent. Nothing bent or broken, a few air bubbles in out of the way spots (or spots I didn't realize they were in until well into painting), and have all been relatively easy to clean.
I've really been wanting to get a Kaldor Draigo figure to paint, but tracking down a metal one has not been easy...
I HATE Finecrap. That is exactly what it is. Crap. I have yet to get a Finecrap model that wasn't bent, missing stuff/details, or require 3+ days of work and cleanup. To top it off it is brittle and breaks easily. What ever Forgeworld does they do it MUCH better, and I don't think it is the same stuff as the Finecrap. Details are sharper for one thing. Also, I find the Forgeworld models have a LOT more details on most of their stuff. I just wish they had better prices. I still can't figure out how GW comes up with their pricing. NO WAY does it cost anywhere near what they charge for it (accounting for MSRP).
Not a big deal for me. I have kept myself from buying even a single Finecast model. I am a painter and modeler first, so every facet of Finecast makes my brain hurt. Every part of Finecast is pants-on-head stupid, from the unbalanced price-vs-metal reasonings, to the fossilized shaving cream they are made out of.
I was perfectly pleased buying my metal Aspect Warriors and Rangers for my Eldar army off Ebay for easily half the price of the Finecast models. Half of them are even the same models.
R.I.P. Finecast. All your competitors are better than you in every way.
Good fething riddance. Can't believe this company ever started selling that trash in the first place, or that it took four years for them to realize it needed to die.
NorseSig wrote: NO WAY does it cost anywhere near what they charge for it (accounting for MSRP).
Well...no, of course not. Nothing sells for the cost of raw materials, you're paying for all the work that went into it and also to keep the company going.
That said GW still charges far more than they really should be, so you're not really wrong, the prices defy all reason or explanation and seem to be GW just seeing what they can get away with more than anything else.
FineCast was released with everyone knowing GW was using it as a temp measure. And what was the last Finecast model to come out? The last one I can think of is the Tau Crisis Suit Commander. Which is a couple years old now.
ClockworkZion wrote: FineCast was released with everyone knowing GW was using it as a temp measure. And what was the last Finecast model to come out? The last one I can think of is the Tau Crisis Suit Commander. Which is a couple years old now.
So no finecast at all with (from the wiki)
Khorne Daemonkin ISBN TBA March 2015 Harlequins ISBN TBA February 2015 Necrons ISBN 978-1782536079 January 2015 Blood Angels ISBN 978-1782536123 December 2014 Dark Eldar ISBN 978-1782534839 October 2014 Grey Knights ISBN 978-1782533702 August 2014 Space Wolves ISBN 978-1782533818 August 2014 Haemonculus Covens (Dark Eldar) ISBN 978-1782534938 October 2014 Champions of Fenris (Space Wolves) ISBN 978-1782533993 August 2014 Waaagh! Ghazghkull (Orks) ISBN 978-1782534600 July 2014 Orks ISBN 978-1782533290 June 2014Astra Militarum ISBN 978-1782532590 April 2014 Militarum Tempestus ISBN 978-1782533047 April 2014 Imperial Knights ISBN 978-1782532453 March 2014 Legion of the Damned ISBN 978-1782535263 March 2014 (Digital Only Release) Tyranids ISBN 978-1782531951 January 2014 Inquisition ISBN 978-1782534044 November 2013 (Digital Only Release) Adepta Sororitas ISBN 978-1782533603 October 2013 (Digital Only Release) Space Marines ISBN 978-1782530763 September 2013 Eldar ISBN 978-1782532125 June 2013
which were after the Tau? From that list, I'd suspect that orks would be the most likely for a new finecast kit but despite my username here I haven't followed the greenskin model line in years.
I definitely didn't notice it but frankly I haven't bought almost any 40k stuff for years (ironically since they introduced finecast) until a few months ago when I started picking ecletic things up for conversions and modelling (but not really army building).
Also, I'd point out that all that stuff came out in LESS than two years... wow... and ouch for completionists.
I think Zion is right as far as 40k goes. There were some Hobbit minis still being made in Finecast though weren't there?
edit*unless the Spiritseer is Finecast*
Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).
It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.
I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
Dryaktylus wrote: Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).
It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.
I don't mean to be rude, but did you just say that "finecast" isn't bad, unless the model in question has a weapon?
I can't think of too many models in the 40K range that would leave as not awful by that standard.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
Dryaktylus wrote: Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).
It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.
I don't mean to be rude, but did you just say that "finecast" isn't bad, unless the model in question has a weapon?
With 'long and thin' I meant weapons like spears or halberds.
Dryaktylus wrote: Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).
It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.
I don't mean to be rude, but did you just say that "finecast" isn't bad, unless the model in question has a weapon?
With 'long and thin' I meant weapons like spears or halberds.
Except that it doesn't have to be spears and halberds for the wonders of "finecast" to become apparent. Swords and rifles are often long enough to collapse under their own weight.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
And then there is the issue that finecast has by and large become exclusively direct order only which means it is difficult to find online from retailers and unlikely to be stocked by stores due to the smaller profit margin on direct order items for them. I suspect that has as much of an effect as the horrible QA. I've been working on my first finecast model in a while (and only my 3rd ever iirc) and I couldn't find one at the usual places online.. the warstore, miniature market, coolstuff inc, etc, ebay, or amazon. My local store orders doesn't bother ordering finecast anymore as a standard stock item but they will special order it for you. YMMV obviously and I'm sure someone will chime in with a report of a store they go to that stocks every finecast model but that hasn't been my experience. I guess part of the lesser visual presence recently was due to the simple lack of new FC models that I wasn't aware of. Since I haven't been buying or even looking regularly for years, I just never realized the new finecast model tap was turned off.
It's no surprise really. Plenty of FLGSs will stock the new plastic characters, but the only finecast things I've seen have been box things (like the Techmarine with Servitors) or anything that just hasn't sold at that FLGS that they're just holding onto to fill shelf space.
All told, I wouldn't be surprised if GW sees all of their current Finecast crop as being a big slice of waste that they need to cut off in order to improve their margins.
The question is how that will affect Codices moving forward. Kharn is apparently NOT in the latest Khorne Daemonkin Codex. Could it be that he's being reserved for a Dataslate? Could it be that they simply were intending to keep him for Chaos Marines only?
Or could that be because they're phasing out named characters entirely?
I could really see them getting rid of all the (often situational) named characters in favor of generic Create-Your-Own characters in plastic, like the latest plastic Necron Lord and the Dark Eldar Archon, Haemonculus, and Succubus in plastic, or having specific named characters as part of plastic box sets like Nork Deddog in the Ogryn box.
Except that it doesn't have to be spears and halberds for the wonders of "finecast" to become apparent. Swords and rifles are often long enough to collapse under their own weight.
Or on some models, arms and legs...
If it only has a thin connection to the rest of the model, yes. As I said, several miniatures are not suitable for finecast which is a massive fault for a standard material that it was meant to be as replacement for metal. Nonetheless it has its advantages for me at the Konvershun Klinik.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...
Eldarain wrote: I think Zion is right as far as 40k goes. There were some Hobbit minis still being made in Finecast though weren't there?
edit*unless the Spiritseer is Finecast*
Forgot that Eldar were after the Tau. Got those backwards. The Eldar had the Ranger character and the Spiritseer in Finecast. But yes, 40k hasn't had Finecast in a long while.
Well...no, of course not. Nothing sells for the cost of raw materials, you're paying for all the work that went into it and also to keep the company going.
That said GW still charges far more than they really should be, so you're not really wrong, the prices defy all reason or explanation and seem to be GW just seeing what they can get away with more than anything else.
Well you said what I meant much better than the way I said it.
ClockworkZion wrote: FineCast was released with everyone knowing GW was using it as a temp measure. And what was the last Finecast model to come out? The last one I can think of is the Tau Crisis Suit Commander. Which is a couple years old now.
While that might have been the plan at the executive and planning level, as far as communications to customers and the industry I'm afraid this is simply not the case. I still remember the WD issue when FC was released, the stories online and the general buzz surrounding it. The top quality sculptors and painters they had quoted to say the same thing; that FC was a major step forward in detail and quality, that it was an improvement over what has come before. So much so that a price rise was a fair measure to take.
The people within the company and those making the miniatures no-doubt knew that it was BS, but nevertheless this was the message that was sent out. And a lot of people bought that message wholesale.
In fact, I think this was probably why FC had such a backlash against it. If GW had said "this is a temp measure while we move all of our ranges to plastics, we'll do our best to keep standards high but there might be some glitches" I think people might have been more understanding. Instead, it was heralded as a major new step forward for GW and the industry. They deserve the negative press they received, I think in all honesty the way in which they carried out the move to FC has done more damage to the GW brand, amongst people who you would term as modellers and gamers, than any other single event in the history of the company.
It's very odd GW never apologize publicly for almost anything, remember when they went after that kids book? They just said we don't talk to the press.
Though it's not just GW many companies take the no apology way. Avatars of War I'm looking at you.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...
Do you know of any finecast models that aren't direct only? They made hundreds of SKUs direct only about a year ago and most of them were the finecast blisters. I haven't seen one since that didn't have that direct only disclaimer on the GW page but admittedly I have only checked for a few armies.
migooo wrote: It's very odd GW never apologize publicly for almost anything, remember when they went after that kids book? They just said we don't talk to the press.
Though it's not just GW many companies take the no apology way. Avatars of War I'm looking at you.
They do not address the public, so apologising publicly is going to be a bit hard for them
Zion...Temporary measure that lasted what? years? Lets be honest here shall we? They commercialized something really cheap that is not usable for gaming or painting purposes for an exorbitant price and guess what, they did it for 4 years. In those 4 years they lost crucial things like sales and the reputation of selling a pricey but good quality product. Since they do not cater to gamers the last thing you want to do is alienate the painter, modeler community.
Lets also not forget that FC models are not only a few characters here and there some armies are FC heavy, Im looking at things like Squig regiments for Ngobbos for example. So how many of the GW collectors did not get into those armies because of FC? No one really knows apart from GW. Individual characters are easy to convert but full armies are not.
Someone said its sad because there is a good chance that Characters blisters may end up discontinued but I can only sympathize and respect your loss if you liked FC, but I need to say that for my own selfish reasons that those Characters died 4 years ago when they switched into this new "revolutionary" material.
Finecast was a huge mistake and everyone involved is a victim of it, I can live without some minis on my vast collections and I hope that GW can recover from losing sales year after year to its competition.
Some companies do not have 4 years of life and on their little garages they manage to cast resin to outstanding standards?
Apple is big enough to pull these cheap stunts and funny enough GW believes that they have the volume to play that same game. They clearly tried it with FC, they failed.
migooo wrote: It's very odd GW never apologize publicly for almost anything, remember when they went after that kids book? They just said we don't talk to the press.
Though it's not just GW many companies take the no apology way. Avatars of War I'm looking at you.
Most recent things that's come out in "resin". However, it's hobbit line. I'm sure it's not worth it to make plastic figures for the characters. You'd only need one set if you were playing the game or collecting anyway.
Most recent things that's come out in "resin". However, it's hobbit line. I'm sure it's not worth it to make plastic figures for the characters. You'd only need one set if you were playing the game or collecting anyway.
Anyone know if those are the same resin as smaug or failcast resin ?
Amazon made their own determination but then GW decided not to take their typical second step (a lawsuit with no merit). For them, that is backing down if they do nothing after a takedown notice/cease and desist when it fails.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...
Do you know of any finecast models that aren't direct only? They made hundreds of SKUs direct only about a year ago and most of them were the finecast blisters. I haven't seen one since that didn't have that direct only disclaimer on the GW page but admittedly I have only checked for a few armies.
For sure most finecast is direct only. I don't think their is ANYTHING in the fantesy range of finecast that hasn't gone direct only. Very few things left in the 40k range that are left to go direct only. But their is some stuff floating around that hasn't gone direct only yet.
To be fair in regards to Fantasy, there is some plastic stuff that has gone Direct Only as well.
Dryads and Glade Riders for Wood Elves(Core options; with Dryads being a standard rank and file rather than Skirmishers as they used to be) immediately spring to mind.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair in regards to Fantasy, there is some plastic stuff that has gone Direct Only as well.
Dryads and Glade Riders for Wood Elves(Core options; with Dryads being a standard rank and file rather than Skirmishers as they used to be) immediately spring to mind.
Ungors for beatmen comes to mind also for me.
Thow the plastic kits going direct only has been popping up in 40k as well. Was surprised to learn that even as kit as relatively new as the IG Hellhound is in that club also.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...
Do you know of any finecast models that aren't direct only? They made hundreds of SKUs direct only about a year ago and most of them were the finecast blisters. I haven't seen one since that didn't have that direct only disclaimer on the GW page but admittedly I have only checked for a few armies.
For sure most finecast is direct only. I don't think their is ANYTHING in the fantesy range of finecast that hasn't gone direct only. Very few things left in the 40k range that are left to go direct only. But their is some stuff floating around that hasn't gone direct only yet.
Thanks for the examples of finecast not direct only. I wasn't even aware of those captain masters as they likey came out in the past couple of years where I just didn't pay attention much to 40k releases other than codex books for armies I already had. I can't remember when that wolf lord on thunderwolf came out but it was a bit before the current space wolf codex; I'm not sure but he may be even newer than the eldar model listed above as the last new finecast models.
That's why earlier in the thread I mentioned that I think the rumor is a bit of miscommunication from the source. What is happening is that the last of the fine cast range is going direct only.
I would love for this to be a sign that the old rumor that fine cast will be handed over to fw as a speciality product is true. Their were a lot of fine cast only models I would love to own in FW resin.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...
Do you know of any finecast models that aren't direct only? They made hundreds of SKUs direct only about a year ago and most of them were the finecast blisters. I haven't seen one since that didn't have that direct only disclaimer on the GW page but admittedly I have only checked for a few armies.
For sure most finecast is direct only. I don't think their is ANYTHING in the fantesy range of finecast that hasn't gone direct only. Very few things left in the 40k range that are left to go direct only. But their is some stuff floating around that hasn't gone direct only yet.
I looked at the masters characters at my FLGS las Saturday and it looks like they are made with the FW resin and not Finecrap as i could see no deformities or bubbles.
Nocturnus wrote: I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?
With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.
You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...
Do you know of any finecast models that aren't direct only? They made hundreds of SKUs direct only about a year ago and most of them were the finecast blisters. I haven't seen one since that didn't have that direct only disclaimer on the GW page but admittedly I have only checked for a few armies.
For sure most finecast is direct only. I don't think their is ANYTHING in the fantesy range of finecast that hasn't gone direct only. Very few things left in the 40k range that are left to go direct only. But their is some stuff floating around that hasn't gone direct only yet.
I looked at the masters characters at my FLGS las Saturday and it looks like they are made with the FW resin and not Finecrap as i could see no deformities or bubbles.
I've owned forgeworld, and have bought both the more early and latter finecast. I have even bought a few of thows masters characters. I can confirm that was not FW resin. It's just the latter finecast with better QC and slightly different color resin.
I think the lighter material earlier fine-cast used was part of the reson QC was so bad on earlier finecast. It makes it hard to notice mistakes on only a quick inspection. That's why they have started adding a grey dye to it.
i just saw a post on Facebook, this weekend, where the MoC with the jump pack had two massive holes on top of each flat surface over the intakes...
it seems to be the luck of the draw...
i received a Noise Marine upgrade pack two weeks ago for a commission, and the sprues are terribly warped, with holes like swiss cheese...
a week later, i recieved a Tzeentch Sorcerer, for the same job, that doesn't seem to have any holes, but the sword is droopy as hell...
compared to the resin FW Nurgle Sorcerer and Kakophoni Marine, that are for the same job, Finecast is like Play-Doh...
i am pretty much ready to start telling clients no Finecast, but that would hurt my business...
i've only been working with it for a month or so, and i already hate it with a passion...
We'll know in another week or two if this pans out but over in the Eldar rumor thread, this was just posted by judgedoug:
I don't know if those are just repackages of old stuff or new sculpts but they're finecast models coming with a new release. If they were getting rid of finecast completely, I don't think they'd be included.
I don't know if those are just repackages of old stuff or new sculpts but they're finecast models coming with a new release. If they were getting rid of finecast completely, I don't think they'd be included.
Most likely old. They wouldn't release 5 new kits on a same date.
My point though was that if they were truely getting rid of finecast then they likely wouldn't spend money on rebranding/reboxing old minis at best or possibly creating new ones. They'd just retire them completely.
insaniak wrote: The direct exclusives just come in a plain package, so there's no need for re-boxing.
I got just a couple weeks ago two boxes from GW customer service that are finecast direct that came in the full retail packaging despite other instances of that same product (the Crisis Suit Commander) being in the plain white package. I don't know what criteria they use or if they just resort to the generic white box plus sticker when they're in between printings of boxes or what but the same kit varies from time to time. We'll see if and when folks do the unboxings.
insaniak wrote: The direct exclusives just come in a plain package, so there's no need for re-boxing.
I got just a couple weeks ago two boxes from GW customer service that are finecast direct that came in the full retail packaging despite other instances of that same product (the Crisis Suit Commander) being in the plain white package. I don't know what criteria they use or if they just resort to the generic white box plus sticker when they're in between printings of boxes or what but the same kit varies from time to time. We'll see if and when folks do the unboxings.
It's just a matter of whether they have run out of the pretty boxes (I've actually asked GW)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh also - the last Chaos set had (old) finecast included in the box too.
Better wait until next weeks releases. It is strange that we havent seen the finecast Shining Spears and Finecast Biker Autarch yet, which were on the leaked order list. We will see these next Saturday the earliest. With Harlequin and others getting a few characters a week after their Codex and a lot of Finecast in the Eldar range we will maybe see more rereleased old models next week or maybe even a few surprises (highly unlikely but who knows).
I corrected my post above. I initially wrote about the finecast one but the one pictured above is the plastic clampack and the one on the jetbike (the "skyrunner" or somesuch) is the finecast one. In any case, the retailer order pic so far jives with the actual previews we've seen (which admittedly haven't included the finecast fig). It probably is best to judge it after the stuff hits the shelves.
Bends easy
Breaks easy
Somehow messes up your paint and make it looks ugly
Lots of casting errors like airholes or misshapen heads
CONVERTING THEM SUCKS!
Just my top 5 reasons
Id take the old metal over Finecast anyday... stupid idea even... just make everything plastic already geezzz.
way!
). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.
