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 Zewrath wrote:

Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.

I liked the old one, but I mainly just don't like the new armor style at all. Also, all cousins of Vin Diesel everywhere are in tears now sir. Shame.

 Zewrath wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.

Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.

i feel exactly the opposite, Zewrath...
i don't like the new look of Nork, at all..
i am very happy to own the original metal version, and want nothing to do with the new plastic version...
to each his own...

cheers
jah

 Zewrath wrote:
The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.

Sounds like your description of the old metal models is spot on with the art and fluff. Sounds like a feature, not a bug that you just doesn't appeal to your tastes.

Herzlos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Nork is part of the Ogryn kit, hence the price.

Wait, what? That's not very clear at all. I assumed it was for a single mini, and GW is nuts enough to charge that.

I re-read the description and it is for 3 generic Ogryns with an option to buy one, that's quite an improvement on the metal ones, but the way the list stuff on that website is awful (with alternate builds being a different item, and search for "ogryn" now showing the fething ogryns, I need to search for "ogryns". I dispair).

It builds 3 Ogryns or Bullgryns in any combination or Nork plus either of the other two.

 Lockark wrote:
The source for this is a distributer. I got a feeling their might do just been a miscommunication and that fine cast will become a direct only item.

For how much fine cast retailers end up sending back....

Entirely possible, and I reserve the right to be completely wrong on this one. I'm just repeating what I heard.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
It builds 3 Ogryns or Bullgryns in any combination or Nork plus either of the other two.

Which is a good thing IMO. Price aside, if kits can include special characters in the same way they have Nork, then that's all the better.

jah-joshua wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

I never knew he'd been redone. But sweet buddah that's a crap model compared to the old metal one, and the price is eye watering. I think I only paid £15 for the metal one a few years ago, and I'm glad I did.

Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.

i feel exactly the opposite, Zewrath...
i don't like the new look of Nork, at all..
i am very happy to own the original metal version, and want nothing to do with the new plastic version...
to each his own...

cheers
jah

Well, fair enough. There's no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to opinions... But why does your reply remind me of a haiku poem?

warboss wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.

Sounds like your description of the old metal models is spot on with the art and fluff. Sounds like a feature, not a bug that you just doesn't appeal to your tastes.

Touché. You got me there.

 jah-joshua wrote:
@easysauce: i must be one of the few people in the "i love metal models" camp...
Finceast is rubbery, and warped, even when it isn't full of bubbles...
like you said, though, i would be happy if they had used FW resin, even though it can need a bit of clean-up at times, it just feels like a better quality material, for me...

Spoiler:

i was happy to avoid Finecast until recently, and am bummed that i have to use it for a couple of my current jobs...

i have a metal Thunderfire Cannon, and it goes together with no problem, but then i pin everything, in every material, since i paint all of my minis in sub-assemblies anyway...
i just got sent the Noise Marine upgrade set in Finecast, and it is warped all to hell...
thankfully, i talked my client into going with a FW Kakophoni Marine instead...

cheers
jah

I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.

Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
It builds 3 Ogryns or Bullgryns in any combination or Nork plus either of the other two.

Which is a good thing IMO. Price aside, if kits can include special characters in the same way they have Nork, then that's all the better.

Agreed. Makes kitbashing custom characters easier too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.

Some of my best exercise was when I had to carry my Sisters army up and down the stairs when I lived on the 3rd floor so I could bring them to the FLGS for games.

I hate metal because it breaks when you look at it funny. Yes, the power of GREEN STUFF compels me, but even so I'd rather have plastic.

But I'd rather have metal than resin, so I can live with metal.

to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.

Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.

It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.

@Jehan-reznor: i'm a surfer, so i'm in good enough shape to carry around an Army Transport full of metal with no problems...

@H.B.M.C.: the only time i have had a problem with metal breaking is with Rackham's spindly ankles, and tiny connection points on the swords...
something like the alloy that Crocodile Games uses is way more robust than the Rackham alloy...
GW seemed to have a pretty good mix going...

i look at the bent sword on the Finecast Tzeentch Sorcerer that came in the mail, and i just pray that it will straighten, and stay straight, because i have a feeling i will be using that bit in the conversion i am building...
at least the bolt pistol, which i know i'm using, is too small to be bent...
amazingly, it is a pretty clean cast!!!
Tigurius' bolt pistol, not so much:(...

cheers
jah

I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.

Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(

I always rather liked the metal figs. Think it was the weight involved; like the feel of something with a bit of substance. Then again I never had to haul a tonne of them around as I only really paint and model.

 jah-joshua wrote:
@H.B.M.C.: the only time i have had a problem with metal breaking is with Rackham's spindly ankles, and tiny connection points on the swords...
something like the alloy that Crocodile Games uses is way more robust than the Rackham alloy...
GW seemed to have a pretty good mix going...

Sorry, I really should clarify. When I say break I don't mean as in the metal breaks, more just that the models keep falling apart due to tiny pathetic connection points (Diaz's Daemonettes being the worst offenders). It's frustrating and happens constantly.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.

Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.

It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.

Either that, or a Chaos warp quake will destroy the entire galaxy, and then some dude will somehow recreate it---and only models in plastic will exist.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.

Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.

It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.

I don't care one bit. Those "models" might as well not exist because I'm never going to throw away money on finecast, so making them officially not exist is no real loss. In fact, since those models are gone (and will presumably take their rules with them unless GW releases a plastic version), I won't have to feel like I'm at a disadvantage because I can't use some of the units in my army.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
@H.B.M.C.: the only time i have had a problem with metal breaking is with Rackham's spindly ankles, and tiny connection points on the swords...
something like the alloy that Crocodile Games uses is way more robust than the Rackham alloy...
GW seemed to have a pretty good mix going...

Sorry, I really should clarify. When I say break I don't mean as in the metal breaks, more just that the models keep falling apart due to tiny pathetic connection points (Diaz's Daemonettes being the worst offenders). It's frustrating and happens constantly.

Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Back to metal for characters/one-offs?

I hate metal, and yet I'd adore a change back to it. FineCost really is that bad.

Of course, the change from metal to FineCost and back to metal again means probably 200% the cost of when it was first metal.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, doen't surprise me. If true might be why Eldar, Tau and Marines were said to be getting releases this year, all have Finecast that needs updating.

That is a good point. But can they do all the Aspect Warrior in plas... wait... no... they're just going to cut them.

I guess we have another instance of "be careful what you wish for".

Well H.B.M.C, I agree with you. Then again, I should probably elaborate my stance, just for the record, since I try to give old models a second chance. All I have are modern tacticals with some Forgeworld bits mixed in. All my leader characters such as my Sergeants, Techmarine, Librarian, Dreadnought, tank marines are metal models from 1st or 2nd edition (Though I do have two beakies and a figure from 1985 mixed in too.) Basically, all my leaders except for my Sons of Orar Captain (who is a Forgeworld Praetorian model with GW and Maxmini bits.)

That being said, I have seen enough Finecrud to steer me clear from the material. Though I hated metal at first, until I learned how to pin. Now it is my favorite material. *Unless I am cutting off a helmet, I learned real quick not to breath that in...)

While you don't have a source, I actually trust a rumor coming from you as well. Though take that with salt as I'm not important in the grand scheme of things.

 Januine wrote:

I don't understand the hate for metal either, for conversions it is harder to work with, but with notfinecast you spent just as much time cleaning up the bubbles and missing detail.
Also bending something back in metal, it stays in that position. The only real bad thing about metal IMHO opinion is if you had a big army, bad for your back it weigths a ton carrying it to the store and back.

Love to see more characters in plastic like they did with the chaos lord with lots of options, but alas, mono-pose :(

I always rather liked the metal figs. Think it was the weight involved; like the feel of something with a bit of substance. Then again I never had to haul a tonne of them around as I only really paint and model.

Heh, my dreadnought turned 21 this year. GW 1993, metal. With a SWM base, building bits and a Space Marine on it (diorama styled base,) it is super heavy. I was taking a painting lesson at my FLGS the other day and he fell. The only thing that broke was a banner pole I made from styrene. His black undercoat got scrapped. The parking lot (old asphalt that is probably upwards of 7 years old,) got dented. Aside from touch up on the paint and new pole, he was a-okay.

If it was a Contemptor or even a plastic dread, he'd be terrain I am sure of it. I also love the weight of my metal Techmarine. It just feels better when I move it compared to a plastic model.

Screw you guys who got to be around during RT and 2nd lol.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.

I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.

Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.

Do you also have a philosophical issue with using glue to assemble your models? I can understand being annoyed when poor design makes pinning necessary, but refusing to assemble your models correctly because you refuse to accept that they need something you don't like doesn't make any sense. And they clearly do need pinning since you just complained about how the joints are too fragile and won't stay together with glue alone.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.

I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.

Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.

hahahahahahaha
at least you know you're being stubborn...

i am the exact opposite, and pin everything...
my stance comes from only painting my models in sub-assemblies anyway, so the pin is already there once assembly time rolls around...
my plastic Sanguinary Guard version of Commander Dante is sitting here in eight parts for painting, body, head, each arm, each wing, and jump pack, all with pins for holding in X-acto handles, and then the base...
...and, yes, i know i'm crazy, but i'm a perfectionist...

cheers
jah

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
to those celebrating keep in mind this means EVERYTHING that's not plastic goes OOP.

Unless GW goes back to metal, whole sections of armies will disappear, maybe for years at a time and a lot of classic models will disappear forever.

It will be Christmas for ebay sellers and hell on everyone else.

Really well put, it's incredible that FC has been poor enough that right now people are actually pleased that some of the miniature range is not going to be available at all. It's incredible how perceptions have changed in just a few short years.

I have no time at all for the current game editions, but I've had so many character pieces from GW over the years and if this comes to pass it will be a monumental moment, and really, really sad. Really, the end of an era, because as good as plastics are and continue to be, they can't match the high-end character sculpts that are only possible in metal and resin. No amount of sprue options and easy conversions are going to change that.

 Pacific wrote:
Really well put, it's incredible that FC has been poor enough that right now people are actually pleased that some of the miniature range is not going to be available at all.

But, again, that portion of the miniature range isn't available at all right now. A "model" that is finecast might as well not exist at all. It certainly isn't a product that any sane person would ever willingly buy. All this change does is stop giving an advantage to the players who are willing to throw away money on defective "models" because they don't care how awful it looks as long as it has rules that they want.

 Peregrine wrote:
All this change does is stop giving an advantage to the players who are willing to throw away money on defective "models" because they don't care how awful it looks as long as it has rules that they want.

Wauw... This statement.. Is this for real?

 Zewrath wrote:
Wauw... This statement.. Is this for real?

Yes. Let's consider Tau sniper drones as an example. They're a finecast model, which means they might as well not exist because I'm not going to throw away money on a defective product. Unless I put a lot of extra work into converting my own version of the unit (or ebay the old metal ones, which isn't an option for finecast kits that were never available in metal) I'm going to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who doesn't care about having defective models and buys the sniper drones. If GW removes the model (presumably followed by the rules) then we're back to a level playing field.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.

I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.

There is also the problem that many of the largest models have rules saying they cannot be pinned.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Wauw... This statement.. Is this for real?

Yes. Let's consider Tau sniper drones as an example. They're a finecast model, which means they might as well not exist because I'm not going to throw away money on a defective product. Unless I put a lot of extra work into converting my own version of the unit (or ebay the old metal ones, which isn't an option for finecast kits that were never available in metal) I'm going to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who doesn't care about having defective models and buys the sniper drones. If GW removes the model (presumably followed by the rules) then we're back to a level playing field.

Can't say that I agree but if that's your opinion.

 jah-joshua wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Pinning! man!
I remember the very old pewter was very soft, it didn't break, you would have a big dent in it.

I have a philosophical issue with pinning, and am of the opinion that no model GW makes requires pinning (or should require pinning). I've only pinned one model in my life - an Ogryn Bone 'Ead - and I do not intend to do it again.

Yes, that is my own stubborn problem, I realise that.

hahahahahahaha
at least you know you're being stubborn...

i am the exact opposite, and pin everything...
my stance comes from only painting my models in sub-assemblies anyway, so the pin is already there once assembly time rolls around...
my plastic Sanguinary Guard version of Commander Dante is sitting here in eight parts for painting, body, head, each arm, each wing, and jump pack, all with pins for holding in X-acto handles, and then the base...
...and, yes, i know i'm crazy, but i'm a perfectionist...

cheers
jah

I'm with you Jah.

But like HBMC says, it was a chore. That is until Lord Jebus Cripes invented;



#besttwentyquidieverspent

I should point out that this is certainly not my ideal situation. I want GW to replace finecast with real resin (including decent quality control) so that all of those models become available to people like me, but that's apparently not an option.

GW are going to plastic. i.e. Ogryn/Nork box or Mortarh/Mannfred/Neferata/Arkhan box or the odd single character sprues that have been appearing for the last 2 years.

Its conceivable that special characters will be done by FW but I see no evidence of this.

 Zewrath wrote:

Wait, what? The old one looked ludicrously slowed. Sure, he's still not what you'd call nice but Ogryns are suppose to look like crap. The old one though, he looks like the slowed cousin of Vin Diesel that suffers from the elephant disease and a heavy user of steroids ever since he was a child.

I quite like the old one, the new ones just make me want to shout "Hey you guys!" all the time.

 Peregrine wrote:
I should point out that this is certainly not my ideal situation. I want GW to replace finecast with real resin (including decent quality control) so that all of those models become available to people like me, but that's apparently not an option.

This would be the ideal; going back to a low-production medium that works, be it metal or real resin. But I can only see them going all plastic at this rate and dropping half of the range. Still, I can get resin/metal minis from other manufacturers anyway.