Hmm, some further and further from the big names, there... I guess I shouldn't be surprised how quickly they needed to dig in the meh stuff (the punisher is pretty phoned-in IMHO).
spiralingcadaver wrote: Hmm, some further and further from the big names, there... I guess I shouldn't be surprised how quickly they needed to dig in the meh stuff (the punisher is pretty phoned-in IMHO).
I like both of the S&V ships, though.
The Punisher is taken from the game Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds where it was called the TIE Interdictor.
Oh, I didn't think it was new for X-wing, just that it felt very "extended universe" where I swear at least a third of those ships are either a scrapped concept sketch called something else, or basically a bulkier version of something that already exists. The former is pretty tolerable; the latter is... not my taste.
Sigh. I can see why they'd go with the TIE bomber variant as a mirror of the k-wing, but I was really hoping we'd get the assault gunboat in the next wave!
Edit: and looks like a new action icon on the k-wing. I wonder what that's going to be.
Peregrine wrote: Sigh. I can see why they'd go with the TIE bomber variant as a mirror of the k-wing, but I was really hoping we'd get the assault gunboat in the next wave!
I still expect to see the gunboat relatively soon.
They just need another large base Rebel ship to go along with it (assuming it would have a large base, which I think could be possible).
Read up on the K-wing a bit. Could the new action be a sort of "Super-boost"? Apparently, the middle engine was used for short bursts of speed. It would also mirror the TIE-thing having the boost action (making both fast, heavy gunboats).
Also, has anyone else noticed that it seems to have a primary turret?
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: Also, has anyone else noticed that it seems to have a primary turret?
Yeah, only two dice though so it's still going to depend on its secondary weapons to do meaningful damage. I wonder if this means it's going to have a HWK-style terrible dial where you unload your alpha strike and then expect to spend a few turns taking turret shots (which are better than nothing) while you try to set up another in-arc shot.
This beautiful ship from the old X-Wing and TIE Fighter PC games. It was kind of an imperial x-wing/y-wing equivalent with shields, ion cannons, missiles, and a hyperdrive.
And here's a fan-made update to modern level of detail standards (link):
Blimey, the K-Wing and Punisher are just awful. I know the EU has come up with naff stuf in it's time but could FFG really find nothing better to make?
This is the first new wave of that's genuinely disappointed me.
So just another thought about the expansions, predominantly those for the Rebels and Empire that this preview has invoked. I have a fear that FFG will continue to create expansions of abstract ships from the deepest corners of the expanded universe that will have lots of neat bells and whistles on them and in doing so will detract from the use of the standard ships of the two aforementioned factions.
Diversity (and not the old wooden ship from a the American Civil War) is good but i just fear that there needs to be a cap on Empire and Rebels before we get too far removed from the foundation of their naval power, there are a few more ships to be added (assault gun boat) but I hope that FFG concentrates on developing Scum and Villainy and perhaps a 4th faction (droid army perhaps?)
I think the new action on the K-Wing is called "Aesthetically Displeasing". I wonder if Hound's Tooth will have a card for Dengar in addition to Bossk.
Interesting choice of ships, I had speculated they might eventually do the K-Wing (as it appears in quite a few books), but did not expect it so soon, and I am very surprised with that bomber, as the only reason that thing exists was to fit the role of an Advanced Bomber for the Imperials (and is probably one of the most lazy of the ground/air vehicles they designed for the game, as many others made to fill in gaps were actually pretty cool)
I hope the reason for them is to fix torpedo/missiles, but the role of the K-Wing and the Punisher might also be as Huge killers, as they K-Wing was specifically meant as a heavy capital ship bomber in the novels. Also, I expect the K-Wing should have some crew slots too, so that will give it some more options.
In regards to the Assault Gunboat, I would like to see it to but I think they might be holding back due to it likely having somewhat similar stats in the end to a Defender, and they seem to be trying to fit in a very wide variety of ship roles for every faction, thus the very obscure ships...
Wow, looks like they're really scraping bottom of the EU barrel. K-Wing looks like somebody was struggling to find unused alphabets: "Hmmm...'K' is yet to be used. Now, from what angle a ship would look like letter K? Well that looks silly. I better add up some pods and engines so it looks like a spaceship." At least S&V ships look passable.
I saw a thread on FFG's forum that made a comparison between the K-wing and The Homer and it made me chuckle:
I'll admit, I'm not the biggest fan of the K-wing, but it definitely doesn't bother me. I don't care if my made-believe spaceships happen to look make-believe!
Huh. It looked more to me like an A-10 crossed with an Enterprise. The front dish can detach from the rocket wings- and X-zibit put wings on their wings so they can wing while they wing!
In that respect, it definitely is a match for the punisher. I quite like the look of Kihraxz, and all of these odd ships make the Hound's Tooth look downright sexy.
If the goal was to subtly promote S&V- well done, FFG, well done!
The saving grace of the K and Punisher will undoubtedly be some sort of upgrade card for their capacious bomb bays, allowing them to fire 2 missiles per lock, or twice per missile, making them a must buy for rocket armies.
Stormonu wrote: Meh, hound's tooth doesn't interest me, the K-wing is "eh", but I actually like the look of the punisher.
Also, do my eyes deceive me or does the punisher have boost?
No, it most certainly does. They might be making it agile to match the K-Wing, which was supposed to be able to put on bursts of speed (with the new action possibly being something representing this...).
The K wing looks like a completely different style to me. It reminds me of the Kilrathi Prince's personal fighter craft from Wing Commander II, especially with that ball-turret thing underslung on the front.
Ok I guess my memory was faulty and the wing structure is way off. Oh well. Still seems to be more WC aesthetic than SW universe, to me.
I'm surprised everyone is hating on the K Wong, I actually really like the look of it and it appears to have some interesting new abilities. The TIE Interdictor or whatever it is isn't grabbing me as much, but Ill probably get one anyway.
The Hounds tooth doesn't hold any meaning to me, and the other scum fighter looks fairly tough for a small fighter, but I have no idea what real abilities it brings to the table. It looks to be an X Wing equivalent for scum
K-Wing has looked like that for ages. I remember the pictures in the old d20SWRPG from WotC. It was clunky and ugly then, and it's clunky and ugly now. Just don't say that to the pilot's face, because that thing is armed to the teeth! (I'm a fan of the K-Wing, will definitely get one and the scum stuff.)
DanielBeaver wrote: Is that a 2 or 3 attack dice on the kihraxz? I wonder what sort of roll it will fill. It's stats look very X-Wing-ey
Obviously a 3. And IMO it will fill a very important role that scum are kind of lacking right now: the 20-25 point generic ship with a 3-dice gun. Right now they have the swarm of z-95s and the 50-point large ships, but not much between the two. The "warthog" y-wing is great when you can get it up close, but if you're forced to take range-3 shots it's almost useless. And the scyk is just a terrible ship. Now they'll have a straightforward 20ish point ship that you can throw into pretty much any list and use effectively in pretty much any situation. The awkward situation where you have 18-22 points to spare (too much to spend on a z-95 but not enough for a better ship) should be gone entirely.
Quite excited for everything except the TIE Interdictor, despite having fond memories or Galactic Battlegrounds over 10 years ago. However if it and the K Wing make missiles more viable I will be very happy, especially as the K Wing is a guilty pleasure of mine despite its rather... rough charms shall we say. Scum getting a midrange standard ship is nice and another large is awesome. I wonder if that's part of the goal for Scum, access to more large ships. Might be nice to eventually see a lone Aggressor paired with something else, if viable of course.
Zond wrote: Quite excited for everything except the TIE Interdictor, despite having fond memories or Galactic Battlegrounds over 10 years ago. However if it and the K Wing make missiles more viable I will be very happy, especially as the K Wing is a guilty pleasure of mine despite its rather... rough charms shall we say. Scum getting a midrange standard ship is nice and another large is awesome. I wonder if that's part of the goal for Scum, access to more large ships. Might be nice to eventually see a lone Aggressor paired with something else, if viable of course.
I don't think we'll ever see the aggressor paired with anything else, just because you need the IG 2000 title.
Well, at least the Kihraxz looks better than it did when I flew one in Star Wars Galaxies - mind you, all of the freelance ships in JTLS looked fugly except the Scyk, YT1300 and the Krayt.
I'd have loved to see a Loronar E-9 or an official YV-929 instead of the Hounds Tooth, though.
Aside from the Hound's Tooth, this wave just makes me feel sad. I know Wave VIII is on the way but seeing the K-Wing and that super generic computer game ship ... I have the feeling we're coming to the end of the line. Maybe Episode VII can turn things around.
I'm not inclined to blame the line, but more FFG's choices.
For example, instead of the Khi-unprouncible Fighter, you could easily have had the
R-41 Starchaser
Instead of the TIE Bomber Squared. (AKA TIE Interdictor, TIE Punisher), you could very easily have had:
Scimitar Assault Bomber
I'm afraid I've got nothing offhand for the K-Wing, because, well, that's just so incredibly OTT that I doubt any other fighter sized ship short of the Suncrusher could get close.
Manchu wrote: I have the feeling we're coming to the end of the line. Maybe Episode VII can turn things around.
That's a tad bit hyperbolic considering you're basing that off of the designs of two ships.
There are lots of people not only excited for the fixes this wave will most likely be bringing, but excited for using these ships in game, myself included.
Eh, three out of four. FFG should have simply designed new stuff. The Raider looks a lot better than the Picasso-Wing, I mean K-Wing. The TIE Whatever is the least inspired TIE variant possible, although the S&V Shckirkzhxz fighter beats it in terms of the all time most generic championship. The assault gunboat packaged with a fix card for the TIE bomber would have been much better. And maybe just skip small ships for S&V in favor of Punishing One so the faction gets a bit more of its own flavor.
Im a huge fan of the K-Wing. Been waiting for the ship to drop since Wave 1. If they keep it true to the fluff (something theyve been very good at doing), Id expect it to have a turret, cannon, missile, bomb, torpedo, and crew upgrade (seriously, this the A-10 of the Star Wars universe), the new action I would expect to be a speed 2 boost straight ahead, but maybe they surprise us with something new.
The TIE Punisher is whatever to me, I would have much preferred a Scimitar Assault Bomber instead.
The Khiraxz is frustrating to me, not because they made the Khiraxz, but because IMO they picked the worst style variant for that ship
Hounds Tooth was to be expected, no surprise.
Personally, Im hoping they fixed the issues with secondary weapons in this wave, which seems to be the intent.
Also, as a side note, based on Armada we know that the Hounds Tooth is an Imperial ship, yet it seems that its being released as an S&V option. I would expect that at some point FF will release an expansion that allows you to take the Hounds Tooth as an Imperial ship, similar to how S&V can take the HWK-290 and Slave 1. I would expect the Millenium Falcon and Outrider to receive similar treatment at some point as well.
Its been suggested that Fantasy Flight cant make the missile boat/assault gunboat because its an IP they dont have access to due to the nature of previous licensing agreements, etc.
Manchu wrote: FFG should have simply designed new stuff.
And then you'd have people asking "where's my k-wing". They were able to design the Raider because there weren't any canon ships in the right size range (at least outside of obscure video game stuff that nobody cares about). You can't do that with heavy bombers because the k-wing is an appropriate ship, has appeared in multiple non-game sources, and is something people are going to expect to have. They might have been able to do something new for the imperial bomber, but would yet another TIE variant really be so much better than what we actually got?
The assault gunboat packaged with a fix card for the TIE bomber would have been much better.
And it would be completely against the fluff. The gunboat isn't a heavy bomber like the k-wing, it's an imperial equivalent of the A4 y-wing. FFG clearly wanted a missile/torpedo-focused wave and that rules out a ship that only uses its missiles as a secondary weapon.
And maybe just skip small ships for S&V in favor of Punishing One so the faction gets a bit more of its own flavor.
Which would be terrible for balance. Scum desperately need an x-wing equivalent to fill the gap between z-95s and 50-point large ships. The scyk is a complete failure, and the y-wing's range and speed limits force you to plan your strategy around it. Now scum have an efficient 3-dice gun that is useful in pretty much every situation and that should be a major buff to the faction.
I wouldnt say the Scyk is a failure. Ive had pretty good success with it, mostly because you can make them virtually unkillable with the right combination of named pilots and upgrades.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its been suggested that Fantasy Flight cant make the missile boat/assault gunboat because its an IP they dont have access to due to the nature of previous licensing agreements, etc.
That doesn't make much sense. Sure, it first appeared in the X-Wing series of video games, but it's had (brief) appearances elsewhere and we've already seen them take ships (HWK, TIE phantom) that only appeared in video games from that era and publisher. What would be special about the gunboat?
It also contradicts the hint FFG gave that the gunboat is going to be released. At the store championship where the lead designer was playing someone asked "where's my gunboat" and the answer was the kind of "no comment" that pretty clearly means "I can't tell you officially, but it's coming". If it really is a licensing issue then why wouldn't they just say "we know it's a popular ship but license issues are getting in the way right now"?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote: I wouldnt say the Scyk is a failure. Ive had pretty good success with it, mostly because you can make them virtually unkillable with the right combination of named pilots and upgrades.
You have a very strange definition of "virtually unkillable". In fact, the scyk's biggest weakness is that it's an incredibly fragile ship for its point cost.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Compel wrote: For example, instead of the Khi-unprouncible Fighter, you could easily have had the
R-41 Starchaser
Would that really have been much better? It would just trade one bland and forgettable video game ship for a different bland and forgettable video game ship.
Everybody is always asking for their _____. Nothing will prevent that. And I don't buy the argument that while video game and comic book companies can make up ships, FFG should not.
I don't get what happened with the M-3A and StarViper. Maybe something will come out with the Hound's Tooth or the other thing to explain FFG's thinking. S&V could be very neat focusing on large ships, if FFG could get the design right. I don't think that is presumptively impossible.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its been suggested that Fantasy Flight cant make the missile boat/assault gunboat because its an IP they dont have access to due to the nature of previous licensing agreements, etc.
That doesn't make much sense. Sure, it first appeared in the X-Wing series of video games, but it's had (brief) appearances elsewhere and we've already seen them take ships (HWK, TIE phantom) that only appeared in video games from that era and publisher. What would be special about the gunboat?
It also contradicts the hint FFG gave that the gunboat is going to be released. At the store championship where the lead designer was playing someone asked "where's my gunboat" and the answer was the kind of "no comment" that pretty clearly means "I can't tell you officially, but it's coming". If it really is a licensing issue then why wouldn't they just say "we know it's a popular ship but license issues are getting in the way right now"?
The Assault Gunboat/Star Wing has basically appeared nowhere outside of Totally Games products. There are vague references to 'assault gunboats' in certain works of fiction, etc. but they are never stated to be the Xg-1 Star Wing design specifically. Also, IP licensing is a very careful thing, FFG isn't saying anything because they basically can't say anything.
You have a very strange definition of "virtually unkillable". In fact, the scyk's biggest weakness is that it's an incredibly fragile ship for its point cost.
81 ponts, use the remaining 19 points to add ships/upgrades to taste:
Laetin A'Shera w/Stealth Device
Serissu w/ Squad Leader and Stealth Device
Guri w/ Bodyguard and Stealth Device.
Each ship is throwing a minimum of 4 defense dice (until it gets hit). If you miss an attack against Laetin you add an evade token to him.Serissu lets you reroll 1 defense die at range 1. Squad Leader gives a free action to a friendly ship at range 1, use it for an extra evade token on one of your ships. Bodyguard increases the agility value of any of the other 2 ships to 5, 4 after one of them takes a hit.
Its really not that complicated to see how you might make it difficult for an opponent to get a hit off on one of your ships chaining the three abilities together.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Technically speaking you could probably make a better list if you put Bodyguard on a Tansari Point Veteran (youd be saving about 15 points), but Guri can get you a free focus token to use Bodyguard, and I dont have a 3rd Scyck yet to try that out with. A Kaato Leeachos Z-95 could also possibly work, but is not really as survivable due to the reduced agility.
Manchu wrote: Everybody is always asking for their _____. Nothing will prevent that.
But some ships are going to have more demand than others. The k-wing is an obvious choice that a relatively large number of people are going to expect.
And I don't buy the argument that while video game and comic book companies can make up ships, FFG should not.
They're allowed to make new stuff, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Part of the appeal of a setting like Star Wars is that everything is part of a single shared universe. Ships/characters/etc in one game/story/etc appear in another, and you can think "oh yeah, I remember that from X". If you're working in a shared universe like that then you should take advantage of those shared elements, especially when they fit neatly into what you're already trying to do. The Raider was an example of a good new addition, no appropriate ship existed yet so rather than screw around with scale changes FFG created a new ship. Making a new rebel heavy bomber doesn't make sense because in the fluff they already have the k-wing.
I don't get what happened with the M-3A and StarViper.
Probably just a balance mistake. The scyk could have been fine with a cheaper point cost or a bit more HP, and the starviper mostly just needed a better high-end pilot and/or the evade action. Even swapping the abilities on Guri and Xizor would be a significant upgrade.
S&V could be very neat focusing on large ships, if FFG could get the design right. I don't think that is presumptively impossible.
It's not impossible, it's just a very small design space. Once you're limited to taking a pair of 50-point ships or a single 50-point ship and support list diversity disappears. To have an interesting faction you need the whole range of stuff from cheap swarm ships to 50+ point superships.
They're allowed to make new stuff, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Part of the appeal of a setting like Star Wars is that everything is part of a single shared universe. Ships/characters/etc in one game/story/etc appear in another, and you can think "oh yeah, I remember that from X". If you're working in a shared universe like that then you should take advantage of those shared elements, especially when they fit neatly into what you're already trying to do. The Raider was an example of a good new addition, no appropriate ship existed yet so rather than screw around with scale changes FFG created a new ship. Making a new rebel heavy bomber doesn't make sense because in the fluff they already have the k-wing.
Well remember that the K-Wing does not formally exist any longer. Its part of the 'Legends' continuity, which is to say the old fluff that Disney did away with, which somewhat raises a question - is what FFG produces considered part of the new EU canon? If so, that means that all these ships and designs and characters being produced for FFGs licensed materials are still canon and could possibly result in future continuity issues if Disney is not careful.
chaos0xomega wrote: The Assault Gunboat/Star Wing has basically appeared nowhere outside of Totally Games products. There are vague references to 'assault gunboats' in certain works of fiction, etc. but they are never stated to be the Xg-1 Star Wing design specifically.
Is that really much different from the TIE phantom or scyk or HWK? All three of those ships appeared in their respective games and then pretty much disappeared
Also, IP licensing is a very careful thing, FFG isn't saying anything because they basically can't say anything.
Why can't they say anything? Are the terms of the license so secret that FFG isn't allowed to say "our license doesn't cover that material"?
Its really not that complicated to see how you might make it difficult for an opponent to get a hit off on one of your ships chaining the three abilities together.
Difficult? Sure. Virtually impossible? Not really. Serissu is the clear weakness in the chain because she can't use her ability on herself. Squad leader takes away her own action, so you've got a high-agility ship with no dice modification. And once Serissu goes down the rest of the chain collapses.
Also, this doesn't really address my argument that the scyk is a complete failure in the "20-25 point generic filler ship" role. You're proposing a strategy that takes up almost all of your points and requires you to fly in a rigid formation, that's not even remotely the same as the "I have 25 points available, I guess I'll take a FCS b-wing" role that scum are lacking.
81 ponts, use the remaining 19 points to add ships/upgrades to taste:
Laetin A'Shera w/Stealth Device
Serissu w/ Squad Leader and Stealth Device
Guri w/ Bodyguard and Stealth Device.
Each ship is throwing a minimum of 4 defense dice (until it gets hit). If you miss an attack against Laetin you add an evade token to him.Serissu lets you reroll 1 defense die at range 1. Squad Leader gives a free action to a friendly ship at range 1, use it for an extra evade token on one of your ships. Bodyguard increases the agility value of any of the other 2 ships to 5, 4 after one of them takes a hit.
Its really not that complicated to see how you might make it difficult for an opponent to get a hit off on one of your ships chaining the three abilities together.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Technically speaking you could probably make a better list if you put Bodyguard on a Tansari Point Veteran (youd be saving about 15 points), but Guri can get you a free focus token to use Bodyguard, and I dont have a 3rd Scyck yet to try that out with. A Kaato Leeachos Z-95 could also possibly work, but is not really as survivable due to the reduced agility.
Meh. Dodge arcs with high PS ships. Because your abilities tie you to a PS5 pilot, it doesn't even need to be that high. Stay at range 2 (denying Guri her extra focus). If Guri uses bodyguard, pound her. Sure, she's tough, but without focus she will take a hit, and will go down fast after that. If it's a Tansarri Point Vet, it's even easier. Once Guri is dead, or if she doesn't use bodyguard, hit Serissu, denying the re-rolls. While Serissu will have a defence token, you only need one hit to break stealth, and another to kill. Once the support is dead, then deal with Laetin A'shera and any other ships.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well remember that the K-Wing does not formally exist any longer. Its part of the 'Legends' continuity, which is to say the old fluff that Disney did away with
This is kind of a misunderstanding. IIRC the old EU isn't gone entirely, Disney just isn't going to pay attention to any story elements when making their own stories. Theoretically they could ignore the k-wing or explicitly say that it doesn't exist anymore, but what would be the point?
which somewhat raises a question - is what FFG produces considered part of the new EU canon? If so, that means that all these ships and designs and characters being produced for FFGs licensed materials are still canon and could possibly result in future continuity issues if Disney is not careful.
This depends greatly on how "canon" is defined. The simplest answer is to have a policy that the movies are the highest level of canon, and other material only counts when it doesn't contradict the movies (this is the policy used in Star Trek, where novels/games/etc often contradict each other). Disney has no obligation to force every single thing with the Star Wars name on it to fit into a single canon.
I think people are getting a bit sidetracked comparing the Missile Boat and Assault Gunboat to the various Star Wars Galaxies, Rebel Assault 2 etc games.
The TIE Defender premiered in an expansion for TIE Fighter, in the exact same way the Missile Boat did. In fact, the TIE Defender and Missile Boat were explicitly linked during the expansion campaign itself.
I think the Assault Gunboat first appeared in X-Wing though, so slightly different game. But still, same company and series.
It's hard to know how many people are lusting after a K-Wing or how much that matters, especially when weighing them against those who think the ship is a visual abomination and/or those who would welcome a brand new visual design that doesn't baffle the eye for a ship with the same role/rules. And then there are folks, likely in greater numbers than any of the aforementioned groups, who have no idea what a K-Wing is and will be like "WTF is that supposed to be?" when they see it at Barnes & Noble, which is not a great reaction to get from consumers when you are trying to rehabilitate the IP's brand image (a.k.a., why X-Wing does not have prequel ships).
What really matters when it comes to toys of fictional space ships is they make brand sense. The Outrider didn't appear in any SW movies but you can tell it looks Star Warsy at a glance because of the design influence of the Millennium Falcon. In fact, anybody who saw the Outrider in some SyFy made for TV movie would be like "hey they're ripping off Star Wars." Like how when you see the Schrizxtz fighter, or whatever, you think "hey they're ripping off uninspired video game design from a decade ago. Maybe from a Star Wars game? Or Halo?" Brand new ships created by FFG for the sake of X-Wing can do better and now one has done better. Even if FFG decided to invent the Raider because there wasn't a small enough Imperial ship for X-Wing, they obviously did think to make it iconic: triangular shape PLUS solar panels! And now it's going to also appear in Armada, where that size-based excuse is unnecessary.
And of course already being a part of the brand does not automatically make something valuable. Certain images cut against value, and deeply. Jar Jar Binks is probably the best example of this for Star Wars. The K-Wing is pretty much the Jar Jar Binks of starfighters in terms of visual design. And this isn't just a matter of personal taste. I realize that some people really like how the K-Wing looks (and I'm not just talking about blind people, either). Along the same lines, I realize that some people don't like the way the E-Wing looks. But even people who think the E-Wing is ugly have to admit that it is definitely and obviously a riff on the X-Wing and therefore visually fits into the established iconic look of Star Wars.
But none of this will change that FFG is making a K-Wing. Heck, I will probably even buy one if not two. I'm just trying to explain why it was neither necessary nor even especially wise for FFG to bind itself to material even the current IP owner has abandoned.
Effectively makes other munitions cheaper. TIE Bombers benefit the most - A Scimitar bomber will get three rounds of shooting with missiles for ~25pts (or 30pts for 6 shots).
There are some awesome looking pilot abilities there.
Miranda (K-wing): Spend a shield to roll an additional attack die, or (I think) roll one fewer attack die to regain a shield.
Edit: And she can take a gunner. +2 shields a turn?
Talonbane Cobra: When attacking/defending, double his range bonus'.
Bosk: Cancel a crit, gain two hits.
"Redline": Maintain two target locks on the same ship.
And some good upgrades:
Glitterstim (Illicit): Once per game, start of combat, discard the card, treat all eyeballs (attack and defend) as hits/evades.
Looks like the New TIE comes with some sort of title upgrade available to all TIE's. Something about a twin ion engine and maneuvering. Might be intended as a buff for TIE Defenders, Bombers, and interceptors?
MrMoustaffa wrote: Looks like the New TIE comes with some sort of title upgrade available to all TIE's. Something about a twin ion engine and maneuvering. Might be intended as a buff for TIE Defenders, Bombers, and interceptors?
Well, both bombers and Defenders have Red 2-turns. Could be something to deal with that.
Well, the picture on the card is a Tie Defender, so it'll seemingly have something to do with that ship. It's one of my favorite ships, so if it gets something to buff it, great.
edit: yes, yes it did on the last page. going to sleep now
edit 2: I'm not overly impressed by the Kihraxz fighter just yet. Looks like standard slots are missile and illicit, both kind of 'meh'. Although looks like it comes with 2 new EPTs: Crack Shot and Lightning Reflexes would be my guess?
The extra munitions is kind of disappointing to me, it helps a ton on the new ships and the existing TIE Bomber, but it just doesnt strike me as making the disposable secondaries on the existing ships all that worth it, especially since most of them cant make use of it, barring the Y and B Wings, both of which are probably more useful filling a role other than a torpedoboat.
chaos0xomega wrote: The extra munitions is kind of disappointing to me, it helps a ton on the new ships and the existing TIE Bomber, but it just doesnt strike me as making the disposable secondaries on the existing ships all that worth it, especially since most of them cant make use of it, barring the Y and B Wings, both of which are probably more useful filling a role other than a torpedoboat.
I think it depends on what those new missiles do. If they are good on their own, the Y-wing would be the cheapest platform, and this would be the cheaper option.
well, generally speaking the actual missile options arent that bad, but most of the torpedo options strike me as being just not worth it (with the possible exception of the advanced proton todpedo) The problem is that very few ships have both a missile and a torpedo slot, both the y-wing and the b-wing are double torpedo, and this far both of them are better geared towards turret/cannon loadouts
A Slave-I Firespray would actually get some use out of it. Might be worthwhile for Emon to fly the Slave I instead of the Andrasta? Get 2 missiles and 2 bombs instead of 3 bombs? Be nice with saving 3 points on double proton bombs, but it means giving up being able to take bomb variety (I was a fan of 2x seismic with 1 proximity).
So, some thoughts on Bossk.
His pilot ability lets you trade 1 crit for 2 hits. His upgrades include a cannon slot and EPT (among others). Now, the HLC says to IMMEDIATELY change crits to hits, whereas his pilot ability specifies "before you deal damage". If I'm reading the timing of it correctly, the HLC isn't great for Bossk since barring outside forces, he would never have crits to turn to hits. The mangler cannon, OTOH, would let you turn a hit to a crit, which Bossk could then trade for 2 hits. Basically an extra hit for 4 points I guess.
Edit whatever: I guess a Mercenary co-pilot could do the same thing, but only at range 3.
Man, those 3 crew slots though. I don't even know where to start.
Looking at this, see some possibilities. K-wing, Advanced Slam, Extra Munitions, and Proximity Mine/Cluster Mines/That hourglass-shaped bomb. Fly up to an enemy formation, SLAM past them, and then use Advanced Slam to chuck a bomb at them. Shoot my opponent with my turret as I circle for another attack.
Edit: Likely include the new bombardier. All told, this is 12pt, plus whatever the K-wing costs. Given how good Miranda's ability is, I'd guess that the generic isn't that much, and this would probably only cost around 35pt.
He would if he uses a target lock/predator/etc to re-roll dice and gets {crit} results. The HLC only turns {crit} results to {hit} results immediately after the initial roll. Once that effect triggers any later dice modification can add crits.
The mangler cannon, OTOH, would let you turn a hit to a crit, which Bossk could then trade for 2 hits.
Yeah, this is going to be really good. You're essentially getting slightly more than 4 dice worth of firepower (with focus, an average of 3.25 hits from the mangler vs. 3 hits from a 4-dice shot on a non-Bossk ship) for 3 points less than a HLC. This is a pretty good upgrade over the ~2.6 hits (with focus) Bossk gets with his primary weapon at range 2-3 but less than the ~3.4 hits from a primary shot at range 1. Is it worth buying? Maybe. The answer depends on how often you expect to be at range 1 or shoot outside of your primary arc.
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Crazy_Carnifex wrote: Given how good Miranda's ability is, I'd guess that the generic isn't that much, and this would probably only cost around 35pt.
I'm actually not too impressed with her ability. Let's look at each half separately:
Paying a shield to roll an extra die sounds good on paper, but you're probably going to take shield damage in the initial pass (like with Vader ships, even if you can't kill her you need to minimize her ability to trade HP for damage) and that's going to limit the number of times you can use the ability. Meanwhile you don't have any inherent dice modification if you're spending your target lock to fire a weapon, so that extra die is just a 50% chance of adding damage. A lot of the time a ship with PTL/predator is going to do at least that much additional damage.
Paying a die to recover a shield is situational at best. You can't attack after you SLAM, so forget about trading away marginally-useful shots on turns when you're running away instead of shooting your big guns. And when you do get a HP back it's only protected by a single green die, so it's not a huge increase in durability. It's the same reason why R2-D2 is great on Corran but borderline useless on a y-wing. It's nice to have the second half as a free bonus, but it's not the reason to take her.
And on top of this she doesn't get an EPT slot. Traditionally unique pilots with EPT slots cost 1 point more than they should based on their PS alone, so this factor isn't going to apply. Her ability isn't bad, but I don't think it's so amazing that it needs a high price to justify it. So based on her 29 point cost I'm going to expect 22 points for the PS 2 generic, maybe 21 at the lowest.
Compel wrote: Darth Vader [TIE/x1, Cluster Missiles, Squad Leader, Advanced Sensors (Or something else you want?)]
Advanced sensors is terrible on Vader because his ability to take two actions only works during the perform action step. If you use AS you only get one action.
What I mean is, the specifics doesn't matter, replace it with <Insert System Upgrade of your choice that costs zero points>. But thanks for your rule correction anyhow.
Just in case people hadn't seen it yet. They preview two more pilots (so 3/4 have been shown) for the YV-666:
Spoiler:
as well as the maneuver dial:
Spoiler:
Overall I'm mostly underwhelmed. The only cannon you'd use is the HLC (exception noted for Bossk and the Mangler), and missiles are still mostly 'meh'. 3 crew slots is sweet, but it's pretty much the only way to customize that ship. Since it lacks a turret, the only modification I can see being used is the Engine Upgrade to try to keep it in the fight. I'm a bit miffed that Bossk is the only pilot with an EPT slot as well.
ICK, that maneuver dial is awful. I guess the S&V needed their own version of the Imperial Shuttle. Be interesting to see if there are any new crew introduced with that expansion, especially given how many crew slots it has. The Bossk/Mangler combo could be really nasty, but without a turret and no K-turn, it will be extremely easy to outmaneuver.
There is a crew card for Bossk, but it's kinda 'meh'. 2 points. If you make an attack and miss, and have no stress, you MUST acquire one stress, and receive a focus token and a weapon lock on the target.
Really only good with a Gunner so if you miss, your follow up attack is fully loaded. I guess you could use him on a Moldy Crow HWK, but why?
Actually, the TIE in Wave 7 is the only ship I am interested in. The scum fighter fills a valuable niche, but without knowledge of the online game, it looks like any random Babylon 5 fighter craft. Especially in the most drab and boring colors possible, short of the HWK.
I actually hope they have these early at GenCon, as I will have my buddy ninja shop me the Punisher on Thursday while my wife and I are still driving there. For our fun games at home I field an unofficial mixed Imp/Reb fleet as pirates(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/650311.page), and for the exact reasons some people have posted about it's looks I really want one. Our fluff is that my pirates get the majority of their ships from looted battlefield debris, and rather than a factory-made model, my Punisher will be the result of when their crazy mechanic (Think Scooter from Borderlands) went, "Hey Boss, we have parts from four different TIE Bombers here, but only enough collective systems for one useable ship. What sounds cooler - a working Bomber......or a super-deluxe bomber, with four bomb bays! It's be like a zoom-bang apocalypse in a can!"
I also like how it looks to push the limits of the size of ship on a fighter base. It looks pretty beefy and seems to really overhang the base.
I actually think there are much better ship designs on Shapeways that would fill the role of the Kyraxicalifragilistic fighter and look better. I actually thought about using these as not-Xwings for my squadron.
-PS2 guy is 1 point cheaper than an X-wing, meaning you can run 5 in a list.
-Like the Scyk, the second generic is PS5 and has an EPT -Trades its speed 3 for speed 1 turns, and its speed 1 straight for a speed 5 k-turn.
- The new EPT, "Lightning Reflexes", allows you to turn any non-red maneuver into a K-turn once per game.
Lightning Reflexes is a little better than that, it's a K Turn and a Segnors loop at any speed the ship can do, and because the stress is assigned after the Check step, there's scope for shenanigans.
Azreal13 wrote: Lightning Reflexes is a little better than that, it's a K Turn and a Segnors loop at any speed the ship can do, and because the stress is assigned after the Check step, there's scope for shenanigans.
I think lightning reflexes will be an extremely useful card for cheap ept generics. Obviously I'm not throwing that onto Soontir Fel anytime soon, but a Black Squadron TIE? Or a KFC 9000 space superiority fighter? Hell yeah I'll use it.
Inertial dampeners is already seen as an extremely powerful card, and it competes with stuff like feedback array and glitterstim. This is just another tool in the chest. For the , firespray , kyxakdnenKdn fighter, and anything else that gets an illicit/ept, its going to be an extremely potent combo that's dirt cheap, at least for when you can't afford more expensive stuff.
Seriously, lightning reflexes practically doubles your maneuver dial. On high PS pilots it makes it almost impossible for the enemy pilots to get on your tail.
chaos0xomega wrote: I dont understand the point of the Twin Laser Turret... I mean, I get what it does, but I dont understand why you would pay 6 points for it...
They mention it in there for one of their pilots, but I suspect it's also for combining with other cards that "when you deal damage blah blah blah" and letting them trigger twice or something.
It's also the first turret weapon that can fire to range 3, so there's that.
It's also 2 attacks, so you can force them to use up Focus or Evade tokens or the like.
chaos0xomega wrote: I dont understand the point of the Twin Laser Turret... I mean, I get what it does, but I dont understand why you would pay 6 points for it...
Better damage than an ion turret, none of the "lose your action and you don't get to shoot at all" problem of the blaster turret, and the ability to shoot at range 3. It's going to be a really powerful option, especially on Salm/Kavil/etc, and probably make the blaster turret obsolete.
Bombing after your maneuver is going to be really powerful. Normally all you have to do to avoid getting bombed is to stay away from the back of ships with bombs, and if you ever end the turn in that position you at least know that a bomb is coming next turn and have the opportunity to avoid it. A higher-PS k-wing, on the other hand, essentially gets to drop its bomb a turn earlier, into places that would normally be safe.
Conner nets are awesome. What's the biggest problem for "normal" bombs? High-PS pilots that can boost/BR away from the bomb and avoid damage. But those ships are terrified of conner nets. Drop one on Soontir Fel and he's immediately ioned for next turn, loses his action this turn, loses 1/3 of his HP with no ability to stop it, and is an incredibly predictable target for the rest of your ships to finish him off.
I can't wait to use the PS 8 k-wing. Drop a high-PS proton bomb, SLAM away and grab a free target lock, and then deliver a focus + evade + extra die kill shot next turn. It covers both of Corran's weaknesses: Vader/Fel/etc die to conner nets, and swarms die to proton bombs.
Plasma torps are interesting. It's clearly a great alpha strike weapon, for a modest point cost. Not an auto-include, but I can see it getting some use.
chaos0xomega wrote: I get that it has interactions with other cards and abilities, I just don't see it being worth 6 points.
Try it and see. Ion turrets cost 5 points and are worth it on every ship with a turret slot so far, and blaster turrets cost 4 points and would be worth it on every turret ship so far if they didn't have to worry about losing the ability to shoot if you lose your action. 6 points is within the demonstrated "fair price" range for turrets, and the extra cost is IMO at least in theory justifiable given its huge advantages over the other turrets.
chaos0xomega wrote: I get that it has interactions with other cards and abilities, I just don't see it being worth 6 points.
Take a Y Wing with BTL-A4 and the stress Droid. Throw this turret on it. A target at range 2-3 can be stressed 3 TIMES. That is why its 6 points.
Not to mention combinations with other abilities like tactician and gunner of course.
Even on its own you're attacking twice, potentially forcing your opponent to use Focus or Evade tokens that might otherwise get saved for harder hitting ships; any ship with a stealth device for instance.
Plus just attacking at range 3 is HUGE for a BTL-A4 Y-Wing who previously had to be at minimum range 2 to really benefit from their title. Granted, now they would have that Range 1 bubble where the title doesn't function, but I'd happily trade the range 3 bubble for the range 1 bubble.
Heck, I'm even considering throwing it on stock hawks. A spice runner is only 16pts. You could slap a TLT, greedo, and something fun like a deadman's switch on it and have a surprising solid little 25pt ship. Not the most competitive thing in the world, but if it can make that piece of crap usable think of how it'll do on ships that are actually GOOD.
Bombing after your maneuver is going to be really powerful. Normally all you have to do to avoid getting bombed is to stay away from the back of ships with bombs, and if you ever end the turn in that position you at least know that a bomb is coming next turn and have the opportunity to avoid it. A higher-PS k-wing, on the other hand, essentially gets to drop its bomb a turn earlier, into places that would normally be safe.
Conner nets are awesome. What's the biggest problem for "normal" bombs? High-PS pilots that can boost/BR away from the bomb and avoid damage. But those ships are terrified of conner nets. Drop one on Soontir Fel and he's immediately ioned for next turn, loses his action this turn, loses 1/3 of his HP with no ability to stop it, and is an incredibly predictable target for the rest of your ships to finish him off.
I can't wait to use the PS 8 k-wing. Drop a high-PS proton bomb, SLAM away and grab a free target lock, and then deliver a focus + evade + extra die kill shot next turn. It covers both of Corran's weaknesses: Vader/Fel/etc die to conner nets, and swarms die to proton bombs.
Plasma torps are interesting. It's clearly a great alpha strike weapon, for a modest point cost. Not an auto-include, but I can see it getting some use.
Re: bombing after maneuver. Can Scum get anything that isn't immediately given to someone else? Bombing after maneuver used to be the prevue of the "Genius" droid, which is Limited AND doesn't let you escape your own bomb. Yes, it will be awesome though.
I do look forward to trying Emon with Conner nets. Too bad he can't really make use of Extra Munitions at all.
I like the look of it. Although, I seriously have to wonder about FFG sometimes. The ship where the maneuver dial is most interesting (Due to SLAM) is also the one where they don't show it.
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: I like the look of it. Although, I seriously have to wonder about FFG sometimes. The ship where the maneuver dial is most interesting (Due to SLAM) is also the one where they don't show it.
And I suspect that's deliberate. FFG always leaves something out of their previews so that there's a surprise left when the ship is finally released.
I'm beginning to wonder if the K-wing may be the first ship where PS4>PS2. Reason being that most ships tend to run PS 2 to save points. The K-wing, on the other hand, wants to move after your opponents swarm to help place the seismic charges/proton bombs, and any generic will cost in the mid-30's anyways. So PS4 guarantees you to move second, and drop your bomb where it's needed most, but doesn't cost that much more.
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if the K-wing may be the first ship where PS4>PS2. Reason being that most ships tend to run PS 2 to save points. The K-wing, on the other hand, wants to move after your opponents swarm to help place the seismic charges/proton bombs, and any generic will cost in the mid-30's anyways. So PS4 guarantees you to move second, and drop your bomb where it's needed most, but doesn't cost that much more.
Maybe throw a Navigator in the Crew slot so you can change course if your opponent doesn't go where you think they were going to go? I can see the K-Wing being a pretty fun ship to fly.
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if the K-wing may be the first ship where PS4>PS2. Reason being that most ships tend to run PS 2 to save points. The K-wing, on the other hand, wants to move after your opponents swarm to help place the seismic charges/proton bombs, and any generic will cost in the mid-30's anyways. So PS4 guarantees you to move second, and drop your bomb where it's needed most, but doesn't cost that much more.
Maybe throw a Navigator in the Crew slot so you can change course if your opponent doesn't go where you think they were going to go? I can see the K-Wing being a pretty fun ship to fly.
I'd want to see the maneuver dial first, but yeah, the BUFF is the ship I'm most excited about this wave.
Nothing there gets the blood pumping. I don't have a Defender, which is the most obvious choice for the Mk2 engine. An advanced could possibly make good use of it, but I'm likely to be flying Vader who wants the Engine Upgrade or Juno who can mitigate the white banks with her ability anyway.
I'm yet to be convinced secondaries are worthwhile, so I might steer clear of this one for now... disappointing. Although at least the Raider is getting close, so I've got something to look forward to!
Deathrain looks like fun. Shooting bombs forwards should open up some shenanigans.
Ion Engines look Okay. Not bad, but not good either. They'll probably be a good filler option on a Vanilla or Advanced TIE, but the main problem is that pretty much every other TIE wants a different Modification. Interceptor and Punisher want Autothrusters, Advanced Aces want Engine upgrade, Defender really wants to have these and Engine upgrade, Phantom wants ACD, and so on. Normal bombers and Defenders are probably the only guys who really want this, but I'm not sure that it is enough to make me want them.
Since the X-Wing blisters all went up by 3-4 bucks, I haven't bought any. Shame, since I can actually find a ship or two I want now like some Y-Wings and A-Wings which were impossible to find a year ago.
Azreal13 wrote: Interceptors can have TIE and Autothrusters with the Title.
Yeah, but why would you? It (literally) only adds a couple of green to an already very green capable ship, and if you're building a list around Fel (or maybe Jax) then you'll really either want Stealth Device, Shield Upgrade or Targeting Computer alongside your Autothrusters, points be damned.
It's a decent filler I guess if you've got a weaker ship that can use it and you're not too concerned with an Initiative bid, but it's not a card I'd run out to buy the blister for (not that we enforce card ownership locally anyway).
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: Deathrain looks like fun. Shooting bombs forwards should open up some shenanigans.
Yeah, once you consider advanced sensors there's really nowhere to hide from bombs now. Front or back, before or after boost, drop before revealing your dial or drop as an action. The only question is whether you'll be able to keep such an obvious priority target alive long enough to make good use of those bombs. If you can it does a really good job of countering multiple strategies at once and opening up a lot more flexibility for the rest of your list. Jousting lists hate proton bombs in the middle of their formation, while elite lists hate getting their ace trapped in a conner net with no chance to avoid it.
I like the idea over on Boardgamegeek where they were thinking of ideas to fix secondaries. Because a drastic change would be hard, one of the simple ideas was that when you spend the Target Lock to fire a torpedo, missile, etc, you also get the benefit from the Target Lock, making them slightly better.
AegisGrimm wrote: I like the idea over on Boardgamegeek where they were thinking of ideas to fix secondaries. Because a drastic change would be hard, one of the simple ideas was that when you spend the Target Lock to fire a torpedo, missile, etc, you also get the benefit from the Target Lock, making them slightly better.
Seems solid to me. Just make the spending of the token mandatory even if you don't re-roll to maintain the perks of those few missiles that don't automatically spend their token. The only thing is that in my experience, the reason ordnance is a waste on low pilot skill pilots is that they can't get locks in the first place because their targets aren't in range 3 yet when they are taking their action.
Latest article on FF's site reveals the final pilot for the YV-666. Can't say I'm too impressed:
I also strongly disagree that Wave VII puts scum fleets on par with Rebel or Imperial fleets. Not even close, considering some of the best toys that Scum got before Glitterstim were available to everyone (BTL title, Autothrusters) and actually used far more efficiently by those fleets (Autothrusters doing far more for Imperial fleets that they do for Scum fleets, for instance.)
It's also more than a little obnoxious that they repeatedly sperg themselves over the "glorious arc" of the YV-666, meanwhile both imperials and rebel fleets have at least 1 ship with a full on turret while scum still don't have one.
Its solid maneuverability, access to the "0" maneuver, and its glorious arc mean that the YV-666 offers the Scum access to a new set of tactical possibilities that are wholly their own.
streamdragon wrote: It's also more than a little obnoxious that they repeatedly sperg themselves over the "glorious arc" of the YV-666, meanwhile both imperials and rebel fleets have at least 1 ship with a full on turret while scum still don't have one.
Good.
Scum isn't Rebels or Imperials and frankly, I'm glad they don't have a turreted ship. Playing a turreted ship against Autothruster squints sucks so having a large 180 degree front firing arc with a ship that can stay in one place is pretty interesting.
Its solid maneuverability, access to the "0" maneuver, and its glorious arc mean that the YV-666 offers the Scum access to a new set of tactical possibilities that are wholly their own.
This kind of crap.
I disagree. FFG is correct, there is no other ship in the game with the "0" maneuver and a 180 degree front firing arc. Personally, I think Eval is the most interesting YV-666 pilot (though Bossk is pretty cool as well). You can fun a fairly loaded Moralo Eval with 4 Binarye Pirates backing him up. Drop one of the Z-95s and you add even more goodies to him.
I do not have a problem with the pilots or the rules, it is the ship that I am not a fan of. Just the tail and engine section really. I will buy one and maybe do some converting to bulk that the hell up. Looks to flimsy to me.
K-Wing: Probably the ship I'm most excited for, because it looks like it has the most ways to play (Bomber, mini turret ship, etc.) as well as coming with a lot of upgrades which are useful (Twin Laser Turret +R3-A2, Munitions upgrade, new ordinance).
Kiraxz: Boring, but I know I have several good scum lists which have a 20-point hole after I buy their main core, and this ship looks like it'll fill that gap better than any other option we have right now.
Punisher: Looks like it'll have a couple niche builds, but it's options seem limited when compared to the K-wing.
Nicorex wrote: I do not have a problem with the pilots or the rules, it is the ship that I am not a fan of. Just the tail and engine section really. I will buy one and maybe do some converting to bulk that the hell up. Looks to flimsy to me.
I've said several times it looks like someone attached a rocket to the back of a sandcrawler and thought it would be cool to fly it. I guess the dune-jumping jawas got a little too bored and went JATO rocket.
