I will say it here and now. Until I can get 2 Imperial Knights or 2 Wraithknights into my army, I will refuse to play against anyone who brings a Decurion Necron with Wraiths and Lychguards. The whole Codex is broken. Look at on Youtube. They beat even the Eldar. Why are people complaining about the Eldar so much and let this one slip? How? Look at the Storm of Silence result. 4 Necrons in top 10. Are you kidding me?

So seriously, why hasn't anyone talk about how OP Necrons are compared to Eldar? Necrons will beat you up even with casual lists. It's disgusting seeing people in friendly local gaming community bringing so much cheese onto the table because that is the BASIC for the Codex. Eldar can only do so if the player is TFG who tries really hard to win.

I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Whilst there may have been 4 Necron players in the top 10 but remember they got beat by Orks (an army that people consider bottom-tier for some reason)

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Hey, I was asking a legitimate question. I actually felt bad last night while playing Necrons, and I used casual lists (No wraiths, no destroyers, used 2 Ctans in one game) and I still annihilated everything. It's not a fun feeling, even on the opposite end. Heck, two of my friends straight up won't play Necrons anymore.

I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

Played a Necron army at 1850 at a local tourney.

I actually think I would have won. I still had plenty of models left on the table because I was able to tie up a lot of units with fast moving CC guys.

But the Reanimation protocols are brutal. Every unit getting 4+ saves that NOTHING can cancel out?

At one point I had a group of 18 boys, a nob with power klaw, and a warboss with power claw jump on a unit of 20 Necron Warriors.

Straight up, just troops.

After all said an done with the armour saves and rolls on reanimation, I only killed maybe...5?

The power klaw is the trump for Orks. Our ol' faithful. Out of our entire codex the Klaw is probably the pin to our lynch. The only reliable thing that meant we could KILL something if we lived through it's first strikes. I've seen Klaw's do amazing things.

But when necron warriors shrug off a power klaw (okay, now a 4+ to a 5+; big D) it's a little ridiculous. Especially since I've taken down Riptides, ripped open Land Raiders, and cut down some pretty nasty HQ's

I lost because we ran out of time and his secondary added up more than mine. I think if we had more time I could have finished him off, but it would have honestly taken close to three or more turns just on swinging at reanimation protocols.

I liked the army, and the guy playing it. But if I knew I had to play more than one Necron army at an event, it would ruin it for me.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

Eh, depends. People's issue is the fact that what you have to kill a Wraithknight, will, in fact, kill the Wraithknight. What you have that can kill Necrons, doesn't necessarily kill Necrons.

Well, Necrons are pretty strong.
I've beaten Eldar pretty badly recently.
Decurion is hard to take down.
Lynchguard is not necessary.

 krodarklorr wrote:

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Hey, I was asking a legitimate question. I actually felt bad last night while playing Necrons, and I used casual lists (No wraiths, no destroyers, used 2 Ctans in one game) and I still annihilated everything. It's not a fun feeling, even on the opposite end. Heck, two of my friends straight up won't play Necrons anymore.

In fairness it did just seem like a snide comment. But no, it does affect both sides of the coin.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Lynchguard is not necessary.

Not necessary as in....what? Too much icing on the cake? Or they're not worth bringing?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Hey, I was asking a legitimate question. I actually felt bad last night while playing Necrons, and I used casual lists (No wraiths, no destroyers, used 2 Ctans in one game) and I still annihilated everything. It's not a fun feeling, even on the opposite end. Heck, two of my friends straight up won't play Necrons anymore.

In fairness it did just seem like a snide comment. But no, it does affect both sides of the coin.

I'm sorry if it came off that way, I was just asking, since I've usually felt like posting things similar to this after a bad game.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Rule nr1 should be remembered, and he did ask a fair quiestion, perhaps work on your tactics?

You could say no more Space Marines, no more Tyranids, or no more Daemons too. Or even no more Orks.

Necrons aren't really any worse than any other army that is configured to be really tough.

I suggest that you just ask your opponent to tone it down, because you don't have the models to kill a Decurion -- just like, if someone fielded 5 Flyrants or spammed invisibility, you probably couldn't deal with that either.

There is nothing wrong with telling your opponent that you're not set up to take on their army.

 Talys wrote:
You could say no more Space Marines, no more Tyranids, or no more Daemons too. Or even no more Orks.

Necrons aren't really any worse than any other army that is configured to be really tough.

I suggest that you just ask your opponent to tone it down, because you don't have the models to kill a Decurion -- just like, if someone fielded 5 Flyrants or spammed invisibility, you probably couldn't deal with that either.

There is nothing wrong with telling your opponent that you're not set up to take on their army.

This. I've turned down games before simply because I don't think I could comfortably take it on without getting roflstomped. Open communication is a huge part of the game now.

yeah but you see the list before the game. This could mean wasting a ton of time just to see someone lists and getting no game. Worse if someone doesn't like you and just wants to waste your time, he can schedule and then just drop it no matter what list you bring.

Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

I play Necrons. Since the new codex came out I practically tabled tyrands at 1k and lost heavily to Khorne + Kane formation at 2k. Necrons are impressived, but they are not invincible. Other than the basic warrior their toys are very, very expensive.

Hey, I just got defeated by a Necron decurion and don't feel the slightest bit sad, while it is rather strong you do have to understand that without it they are actually pretty balanced (bar wraiths).

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
Hey, I just got defeated by a Necron decurion and don't feel the slightest bit sad, while it is rather strong you do have to understand that without it they are actually pretty balanced (bar wraiths).

Necrons are incredibly well balanced with the Decurion. I might actually have to run a CAD for awhile and see how that goes.

Necrons arent that hard to beat. I beat them with eldar 9/10 times. D scythe wraithguard will wreck entire units of necrons.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii when combined with the Flesh Tearers Formation is insanely dirty. You put lots of cheap 5 and ten man squads with rapid firing Haywire Rifles or x3 shot Plasma Guns in them and then boost their BS to 7 on the turn they come down, it tables almost everything.

In regards to Necrons I can understand if you are frustrated about losing a game but I think freaking out like this is going overboard. Yes Necrons are strong, personally I think it fits the fluff more then anything that they are so tough to kill and at the same time represents a challenge that I would love to take on and see what I could do and try to beat it. Having played a few games against both the Decurion and Wraith Wall lists I have lost more then I have won and every game I lost I got that much closer to beating them because I changed up my lists and tactics significantly with my IG armies, my Tau seem to do the best thanks to the amount of Fire I can put out. So instead of raging and just refusing to play games (because it will affect you to not just the Necron player) think positively and take it as a learning experience to make yourself a better player.

^what he said^

 Xerics wrote:
Necrons arent that hard to beat. I beat them with eldar 9/10 times. D scythe wraithguard will wreck entire units of necrons.

Thats not saying much. Yes, lets all use a stupid unit to defeat Necrons. Oh wait, only Eldar have access to that stupid unit.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Necrons arent that hard to beat. I beat them with eldar 9/10 times. D scythe wraithguard will wreck entire units of necrons.

Thats not saying much. Yes, lets all use a stupid unit to defeat Necrons. Oh wait, only Eldar have access to that stupid unit.

Well so do Dark Eldar...

Anyway, 'Crons are dirty but every army is dirty when players know what they're doing.

 Trondheim wrote:

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Rule nr1 should be remembered, and he did ask a fair quiestion, perhaps work on your tactics?

Oh boy, the "learn to play" post is already here!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

lustigjh wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Rule nr1 should be remembered, and he did ask a fair quiestion, perhaps work on your tactics?

Oh boy, the "learn to play" post is already here!

Broken game or not, when you're experiencing what OP is, how many options do you have? Really, you can get your panties in a bunch or you can git gud.
I play Nids in a predominantly Eldar meta, should I stop playing or experiment with how to better apply my units when faced with ranged D and the new psychic shenanigans?
Am I going to send my Flyrants against Wraithguard anymore? feth no. Wave Serpents on the other hand? It's open-season on them now.
The Eldar codex changed. Units that used to pose a big threat are now great targets, and vice-versa. As codexes change so should tactics, and that's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned.

 Squidmanlolz wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

bibotot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I take it you got beat pretty hard recently?

Said the guy who wins like 80-90% games with Necron.

Rule nr1 should be remembered, and he did ask a fair quiestion, perhaps work on your tactics?

Oh boy, the "learn to play" post is already here!

Broken game or not, when you're experiencing what OP is, how many options do you have? Really, you can get your panties in a bunch or you can git gud.
I play Nids in a predominantly Eldar meta, should I stop playing or experiment with how to better apply my units when faced with ranged D and the new psychic shenanigans?
Am I going to send my Flyrants against Wraithguard anymore? feth no. Wave Serpents on the other hand? It's open-season on them now.
The Eldar codex changed. Units that used to pose a big threat are now great targets, and vice-versa. As codexes change so should tactics, and that's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with that mindset is that you're assuming any list can be reasonably beaten by any codex with minor changes in tactics. There's some merit to examining your tactics but waving off someone's complaints with "git gud" completely avoids answering the details of the issue.

I didn't mean to assume that any list can be beaten by tactics alone. There are lists that will beat other lists 10 times out of 10, but unless those are the only lists you're going up against, I don't see the point in throwing your hands in the air and giving up.
Even in an imbalanced matchup there is not only fun to be had, but there's still the chance to experiment and see how to better use your units for your next similar game.

The main problem with the decurion detachment is that most of the constructible lists within the formation smörgåsbord are strong and will crush other casual lists, even if one does not optimise them. Sure, you can play a minimalist reclamation legion and company it with Annihilation Nexuses, Star Gods and Death bringer flights, but I guess that would be rare.

When everyone is running harsh lists, the Necrons are no longer unbeatable, but still strong.

When it comes to getting good or complaining, one can do both. If one wants to play against tough things, like Necrons, you almost need to tighten your lists and gameplay if you care about having an even game. However, I do not see why one cannot complain about unfair things when there are so many balance discrepancies and codexes filled with terrible units.

Don't most tournaments Ban decurion style formations? I know at least two locally that straight up forbade Decurion formation and the Eldar Copy/paste. They also put severe restrictions on Eldar player specifically. probably because Fire dragons with a +3 to Dmg table roll just seems a bit....broken.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Don't most tournaments Ban decurion style formations? I know at least two locally that straight up forbade Decurion formation and the Eldar Copy/paste. They also put severe restrictions on Eldar player specifically. probably because Fire dragons with a +3 to Dmg table roll just seems a bit....broken.

No, they don't nor should they.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Some of the people claiming Eldar aren't OP are claiming Skitaari are more OP. In certain formations I can agree, but overall, I think Eldar are much stronger.

 OrkaMorka wrote:


At one point I had a group of 18 boys, a nob with power klaw, and a warboss with power claw jump on a unit of 20 Necron Warriors.

Straight up, just troops.

After all said an done with the armour saves and rolls on reanimation, I only killed maybe...5?

The power klaw is the trump for Orks. Our ol' faithful. Out of our entire codex the Klaw is probably the pin to our lynch. The only reliable thing that meant we could KILL something if we lived through it's first strikes. I've seen Klaw's do amazing things.

But when necron warriors shrug off a power klaw (okay, now a 4+ to a 5+; big D) it's a little ridiculous. Especially since I've taken down Riptides, ripped open Land Raiders, and cut down some pretty nasty HQ's

That's their primary selling point though: they're tough. The warriors can't take special weapons, they can't take melee weapons, and they aren't as cheap as boyz or gaunts. If they're going to kill something they have to outlast it and whittle it down. Because of this, Orks are one of the best armies to fight them: those 5 warriors you killed are going to force that Necron player to make a hell of a morale check or get his entire unit swept off the board with no saves allowed (most of the time, at least). They're definitely strong in their own way, but a Necron army is rarely going to blast you off the table like certain other armies will.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Don't most tournaments Ban decurion style formations? I know at least two locally that straight up forbade Decurion formation and the Eldar Copy/paste. They also put severe restrictions on Eldar player specifically. probably because Fire dragons with a +3 to Dmg table roll just seems a bit....broken.

Fire dragons get +3 to damage chart at all times. The only thing the detatchment would do for them is give them +1 BS.

Ratflinger wrote:
The main problem with the decurion detachment is that most of the constructible lists within the formation smörgåsbord are strong and will crush other casual lists, even if one does not optimise them. Sure, you can play a minimalist reclamation legion and company it with Annihilation Nexuses, Star Gods and Death bringer flights, but I guess that would be rare.

When everyone is running harsh lists, the Necrons are no longer unbeatable, but still strong.

When it comes to getting good or complaining, one can do both. If one wants to play against tough things, like Necrons, you almost need to tighten your lists and gameplay if you care about having an even game. However, I do not see why one cannot complain about unfair things when there are so many balance discrepancies and codexes filled with terrible units.

I do concur with this sentiment. Essentially, the (valid) complaint is that with Necron and Eldar, it's really easy to build a list that curb stomps casual armies -- even though that same list may have a relatively low competitive ceiling, against "harsh lists" as you put it. TBH, I think Tau gunlines fall into this category too. They're easy to construct and obvious to play.

So just look at it another way: those so-called "top tier lists" as training wheels to getting to know the game better Once you've mastered the Decurion and understand 40k, you can go build yourself a Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, or CSM army and be all proud when you win a tournament.

I've started to feel guilty bringing wraiths in my list. I play a pretty tame list, I guess? No Decurion shenanigans, just a CAD. I mean yes, I made an army that 1) I thought would be something the Necrons would make where units synergize very well together and 2) I wanted a good bit of 36" shooting and AP2 because I feel it's one of my biggest weaknesses.

But the guys I play with casually struggle against wraiths. So I've stopped bringing them. But I'm not trying to be a WAAC guy, part of my fun is making an army that I think is effective but not tourny-level.

Does this look like an over the top list?

D Lord w/ Warscythe + Phase Shifter
Illuminor Szeras

10x Warrior w/ Ghost Ark
10x Warrior w/ Ghost Ark
15x Warriors

10x Praetorians
1x Triarch Stalker
1x Triarch Stalker

3x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
3x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
6x Tomb Blades w/ Nebulo and Vanes

1x Heavy Destroyer
1x Heavy Destroyer
1x Heavy Destroyer

Grey Knights really bash the sad robot zombies hard.

Force/Hammerhand, get into cc, mulch things.

Dreadknights are bad news for us too.

zerosignal wrote:
Grey Knights really bash the sad robot zombies hard.

Force/Hammerhand, get into cc, mulch things.

Dreadknights are bad news for us too.

Grey Knights are one of the easiest match ups for Necrons to cope with. The Grey Knights try their crushing alpha strike, it bounces off Necron durability, then they start losing members and firepower every turn until all hope is lost. Generally it's obviously over by turn 3.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii in drop pods are just the best thing. Your entire army can be compromised of 9 drop pods with 2-3 special weapons in each pod. Either melta (blood angels), rapid fire haywire or 3-shot plasma guns. Haywire and plasma would be BS 7 due to doctrines.

So turn one you, you'll probably drop 9 plasma shots, anywhere from 6 to 12 haywire shots and 6 melta shots. Can't get rid of it because nothing is on the table at the start of your first turn.

Force weapons tend to do bad things to durability.

Not more than rending tarpits or ap2 does to Grey Knights, I would bet. I rarely get to play them, though.

Expensive units and slow like hell. Never lost agains them in objective games

DaPino wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii in drop pods are just the best thing. Your entire army can be compromised of 9 drop pods with 2-3 special weapons in each pod. Either melta (blood angels), rapid fire haywire or 3-shot plasma guns. Haywire and plasma would be BS 7 due to doctrines.

So turn one you, you'll probably drop 9 plasma shots, anywhere from 6 to 12 haywire shots and 6 melta shots. Can't get rid of it because nothing is on the table at the start of your first turn.

It's like drop pods are too good for 35 points when they're not dedicated transports and you can stuff anything you want in them...

 SilverDevilfish wrote:


It's like drop pods are too good for 35 points when they're not dedicated transports and you can stuff anything you want in them...

They're even better for ASM where they ARE DT.. and free!

Look as a Necron player I really want to say you are just having a sook over a bad game (and please excuse me for having that impression, I've seen a few examples of major butthurt over lost games) but if nothing else you have a point they are still a very powerful Codex and it isn't hard to put a tougher than nails list.
Though with things like Escalation there are easier ways of dispensing Necrons, I just had a game where my friend fielded a Baneblade and up until the last turn of the game it had blasted most of my army away with minimal effort or damage. Though even I have to admit a 230 ish point lord being able to single handedly knock of half the hull points of a superheavy tanks and survive a Titanic Explosion after that and having not lost a single would the entire game is insane

 gmaleron wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii when combined with the Flesh Tearers Formation is insanely dirty. You put lots of cheap 5 and ten man squads with rapid firing Haywire Rifles or x3 shot Plasma Guns in them and then boost their BS to 7 on the turn they come down, it tables almost everything.

As a BA player I am proud we excel at something: We make for a superb taxi service. Glad I chose this army instead of anything else. Now I just need to spend a few euros to get 6 more drop pods, a bunch of Skitarii and then I can compete with my BA!

Back to Necrons, GW has always loved them. No reason they will ever get nerfed. With IoM changing one codex drastically is not possible, but with xenos? Easy to introduce big changes.

Naw wrote:

Back to Necrons, GW has always loved them. No reason they will ever get nerfed.

I think most of us that played them with the 3rd edition codex till they got their update in 5th would disagree. They may not take a kick in the junk directly, but it can certainly happen through BRB and meta changes.

Trying to play them before the 3ed edition codex was even worse

Imagine: An army with no Heavy Support.

Ffyllotek wrote:
I play Necrons. Since the new codex came out I practically tabled tyrands at 1k and lost heavily to Khorne + Kane formation at 2k. Necrons are impressived, but they are not invincible. Other than the basic warrior their toys are very, very expensive.

If that were the case, I don't think you'd see so much Necron hate. Truth is, most people tend to think Crons are slightly undercosted for the majority of their units. Wraiths, Lychguard, Praetorians, generic Overlords, and Flayed Ones are a steal for the most part. True, there are a few "expensive" units, mainly their vehicles and the C'Tan, but even that is questionable in comparison to similar units in other armies.

use a nurgle demon force and toss blind grenades at them all day and laugh the whole time as they cant shoot you..

JamesJunior wrote:
Look as a Necron player I really want to say you are just having a sook over a bad game (and please excuse me for having that impression, I've seen a few examples of major butthurt over lost games) but if nothing else you have a point they are still a very powerful Codex and it isn't hard to put a tougher than nails list.
Though with things like Escalation there are easier ways of dispensing Necrons, I just had a game where my friend fielded a Baneblade and up until the last turn of the game it had blasted most of my army away with minimal effort or damage. Though even I have to admit a 230 ish point lord being able to single handedly knock of half the hull points of a superheavy tanks and survive a Titanic Explosion after that and having not lost a single would the entire game is insane

Baneblades should not be difficult for Necrons to kill at all. Also, saying that Superheavies are the way to kill Necrons is kind of stupid in it's own right. Most people don't have/want Superheavies, much less like seeing them in regular games. Plus, Necron infantry can literally hurt any superheavy in the game, even Gargantuan creatures. And if they bring some of the better formations, forget it.

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

 Zippokovich wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

I've seen this happen maybe twice. Necrons either kill enough to not have to worry about it, or just contest it. Most armies don't bring tons of Obj Sec.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

I've seen this happen maybe twice. Necrons either kill enough to not have to worry about it, or just contest it. Most armies don't bring tons of Obj Sec.

I won't disagree that most people don't take much obj sec, so the importance of it doesn't come up too much but a list with none at all is really weak to an army which makes good use of it.

I usually feel pretty safe against decurian because along slide no obj sec necrons lack the range to catch jet bikes which run away all game and come in at the end.

 Zippokovich wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

I've seen this happen maybe twice. Necrons either kill enough to not have to worry about it, or just contest it. Most armies don't bring tons of Obj Sec.

I won't disagree that most people don't take much obj sec, so the importance of it doesn't come up too much but a list with none at all is really weak to an army which makes good use of it.

I usually feel pretty safe against decurian because along slide no obj sec necrons lack the range to catch jet bikes which run away all game and come in at the end.

So to beat Necrons play Eldar?

I'm pretty sure all new codexes will get Decurion-style formations; this has happened with Eldar and Khorne.

bibotot wrote:
So seriously, why hasn't anyone talk about how OP Necrons are compared to Eldar?

Please no. The massive mass QQ about Necrons has just died down a bit, the Eldar is still ongoing.

 jreilly89 wrote:


So to beat Necrons play Eldar?

No, take advantage of their deficiencies - I'm pointing out obj sec is one of them and I'm sure other armies besides eldar can be played to make good use of it.

you could always just run without decurion and get obsec if it's such a big game-turner in your eyes.
Skitarii and Harlequinns are the only armies that literally cannot get obsec.

And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

 Runic wrote:
And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

So maybe they don't need obsec then?

 Purifier wrote:

 Runic wrote:
And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

So maybe they don't need obsec then?

Thing is you can't have both - if they take decurian win on objectives, if they don't kill them like any other army.

 Zippokovich wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Runic wrote:
And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

So maybe they don't need obsec then?

Thing is you can't have both - if they take decurian win on objectives, if they don't kill them like any other army.

I think I can count the amount of times obsec has made a difference for holding an objective for me on one hand.
When I started Skitarii and realised they didn't have obsec it was the biggest non-issue I had not given a toss about in my 40k career.

 Purifier wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Runic wrote:
And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

So maybe they don't need obsec then?

Thing is you can't have both - if they take decurian win on objectives, if they don't kill them like any other army.

I think I can count the amount of times obsec has made a difference for holding an objective for me on one hand.
When I started Skitarii and realised they didn't have obsec it was the biggest non-issue I had not given a toss about in my 40k career.

Ahhhhrg I'm not saying it is important for everyone in every game, the point of this thread is that the OP says necrons are unbeatable and I'm saying that they are seriously weak to an opponent and army who can properly employ objective secured. I also play games with a heavy obj sec list where it doesn't come into effect but against decurian it invariably does. If you can beat the decurian without it, great, I'm just suggesting one way to do it.

 Zippokovich wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


So to beat Necrons play Eldar?

No, take advantage of their deficiencies - I'm pointing out obj sec is one of them and I'm sure other armies besides eldar can be played to make good use of it.

The issue there is that eldar have an amazing obsec unit that isn't an otherwise-waste-of-points when it isn't snagging an objective in jetbikes.
And it helps that they can move light speed around the board.

Maybe you don't play the less privelaged armies much, but they don't have those. I can't turbo boost a set of tactical marines across the board to obsec steal a maelstrom point out from under some decuricrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zippokovich wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Runic wrote:
And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

So maybe they don't need obsec then?

Thing is you can't have both - if they take decurian win on objectives, if they don't kill them like any other army.

They take a decurion. Turn 1 I roll up double-destroy a unit on ITC maelstrom. They get their own board edge maelstrom objective and hold the line. I'm not playing another fight-fire-with-fire broken army like eldar. What now?

Playing against decurion crons is like straight up fighting an rpg character of your own class who's just higher level with better gear. The only real options you have are to get lucky and hope the RNG favors you. With the crons, you have to hope that the objective mission either has more points on your side (a la book scouring,) or that maelstrom puts you ahead so that they have to start shuffling around to catch back up.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


So to beat Necrons play Eldar?

No, take advantage of their deficiencies - I'm pointing out obj sec is one of them and I'm sure other armies besides eldar can be played to make good use of it.

The issue there is that eldar have an amazing obsec unit that isn't an otherwise-waste-of-points when it isn't snagging an objective in jetbikes.
And it helps that they can move light speed around the board.

Maybe you don't play the less privelaged armies much, but they don't have those. I can't turbo boost a set of tactical marines across the board to obsec steal a maelstrom point out from under some decuricrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zippokovich wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Runic wrote:
And without the Decurion bonuses the Necron powerlevel goes down quite a bit.

So maybe they don't need obsec then?

Thing is you can't have both - if they take decurian win on objectives, if they don't kill them like any other army.

They take a decurion. Turn 1 I roll up double-destroy a unit on ITC maelstrom. They get their own board edge maelstrom objective and hold the line. I'm not playing another fight-fire-with-fire broken army like eldar. What now?

Playing against decurion crons is like straight up fighting an rpg character of your own class who's just higher level with better gear. The only real options you have are to get lucky and hope the RNG favors you. With the crons, you have to hope that the objective mission either has more points on your side (a la book scouring,) or that maelstrom puts you ahead so that they have to start shuffling around to catch back up.

Thank you. Most Necrons run Decurion, because Obj Sec sucks. It just sucks. Sure, maybe it's good for armies like Orkz or Nidz who run tons of bodies, but for most armies it doesn't matter how much ObjSec if you die the same.

i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

The initial cost of a Decurion can be as low as 500 to 600 points. Monoliths are not required. Tomb Blades are not a waste of points. The only 'tax' is the 2 units of Warriors and 1 unit of Immortals... which aren't really a tax at all since they're so durable. The real tax is the requirements for all the formations, but many of those formations are good, despite their 'taxes'.

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

yeah i think i played the decurion for about two weeks before i moved back to old school bound builds i haven't had a chance to really dabble with alot of the units in the codex, as our local mini stores are not GW so they kind of have a little of this and a little of that..meaning most of the time its stuff i don't need. Yes orks are necron bane, they are all up in your metal ass before you even have a chance to soften them up with gauss fire. I still don't feel that the decurion is broken by any means, but on the flip side i play with good friends so we all have the respect to not roll out the cheese lists...

Tomblades with gauss are one of the best anti horde in the entire game, point wise. Twin linked, high damage, with AP4 and ignore cover, there are very few other units that can put the same output of unsaved wounds against hordes.

Even the dreaded scatterbikes made (per point) less unsaved wounds, if the horde has a salvation (armor or cover) of 5+. But with higher resistance and more versatile (the tomb blades also excel against vehicles) than other anti hordes.

Probably, only the scatterbikes could surpass the tomblades in this function, and only because of the superior movility, range and obsec.

Crimson Heretic wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

yeah i think i played the decurion for about two weeks before i moved back to old school bound builds i haven't had a chance to really dabble with alot of the units in the codex, as our local mini stores are not GW so they kind of have a little of this and a little of that..meaning most of the time its stuff i don't need. Yes orks are necron bane, they are all up in your metal ass before you even have a chance to soften them up with gauss fire. I still don't feel that the decurion is broken by any means, but on the flip side i play with good friends so we all have the respect to not roll out the cheese lists...

Eh, crons have a lot of stuff that fights Orks rather well. I've played my Ork friend twice so far, and he didn't even come close to winning both times. Plus, Necrons have blasts, some ignores cover, massed shooting, which eats through orks, they're tough enough to survive relatively long in CC against them, and we have a good amount of stuff with Fear, which screws with Orks rather well.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

yeah i think i played the decurion for about two weeks before i moved back to old school bound builds i haven't had a chance to really dabble with alot of the units in the codex, as our local mini stores are not GW so they kind of have a little of this and a little of that..meaning most of the time its stuff i don't need. Yes orks are necron bane, they are all up in your metal ass before you even have a chance to soften them up with gauss fire. I still don't feel that the decurion is broken by any means, but on the flip side i play with good friends so we all have the respect to not roll out the cheese lists...

Eh, crons have a lot of stuff that fights Orks rather well. I've played my Ork friend twice so far, and he didn't even come close to winning both times. Plus, Necrons have blasts, some ignores cover, massed shooting, which eats through orks, they're tough enough to survive relatively long in CC against them, and we have a good amount of stuff with Fear, which screws with Orks rather well.

I guess I should specify that I speak from the tournament meta, not lgs metas.

Oh I'm not saying the book doesn't have answers for orks. Every book does. The issue is if you actually took those answers in your list. And I see plenty of tourney decurion lists that just don't take orks into account because it would bring their list power down against the other almost-20 books they are likely to face. It's a sound strategic meta-move, but occasionally the bad matchup happens. Sometimes you stay with a 20 and the dealer goes right to 21.

Remember, tourney environment and lgs environment are two different beasts. In lgs environments, I would expect the more TAC style cron list to take on orks much better.

niv-mizzet wrote:

I guess I should specify that I speak from the tournament meta, not lgs metas.

Oh I'm not saying the book doesn't have answers for orks. Every book does. The issue is if you actually took those answers in your list. And I see plenty of tourney decurion lists that just don't take orks into account because it would bring their list power down against the other almost-20 books they are likely to face. It's a sound strategic meta-move, but occasionally the bad matchup happens. Sometimes you stay with a 20 and the dealer goes right to 21.

Remember, tourney environment and lgs environment are two different beasts. In lgs environments, I would expect the more TAC style cron list to take on orks much better.

Yeah, that's one of the many reasons I don't go to Tournaments.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

This man speaks the truth.

In my experience playing Necrons, I've found that the opponents who would get frusterated the most are the ones that treat battling Necrons like they are facing Space Marines. They see the similar statlines and 3+ armor saves and bring the entirely wrong mindset to the table.

Crimson Heretic wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

yeah i think i played the decurion for about two weeks before i moved back to old school bound builds i haven't had a chance to really dabble with alot of the units in the codex, as our local mini stores are not GW so they kind of have a little of this and a little of that..meaning most of the time its stuff i don't need. Yes orks are necron bane, they are all up in your metal ass before you even have a chance to soften them up with gauss fire. I still don't feel that the decurion is broken by any means, but on the flip side i play with good friends so we all have the respect to not roll out the cheese lists...

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

 Xerics wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
i play the tin cans and rarely pull out decurion..why? because its such a huge investment point wise. I also don't win very often regardless if i play decurion or just a straight bound build. the necrons are good but god they have flaws too, typically my good buddy and i play and his ork mobs just pummel my troops down in cc, the low Initiative and generally low unit counts(compared to a mob of boys) really makes them easy to tar pit down resulting in a large chunk of your forces not being able to go sieze objectives. To say your going to refuse to play against a decurion is kind of lame, the initial requirments alone i think are around 1500 points if i remember right, overlord+ immortals+two packs of warriors+ tomb blades+ monolith..to me the necrons are balanced just fine, can't pass judgement on wraithes because i dont own any

Yeah I can tell you rarely touch the decurion. It's only just shy of 500 to get the base reclamation legion. Tomb blades are awesome and I've never seen them not pull their weight assuming they aren't priority targeted by an opponent who has units that like having cover saves.

Orks are, oddly enough, a natural predator to the crons. Your typical decurion will be (relatively speaking) squishy shooters in tough transports protected by a few melee units with the whole army being hilariously tough and near fearless thanks to ld10. Shooty armies generally can't do enough damage. Balanced armies get their melee tied up and eaten by cron melee while their shooting still doesn't do enough. Elite melee armies get tied up in the cron melee elements like wraiths and lychguard, and get reduced in number while trying to chop through that, if they win at all.

Orks though...Lots of bodies, and even their shooty guys have ws4 and 2 attacks? They can afford to run right at you, lose a few units to being tied up by canopteks and lyches, and have the rest of the horde steamroll right into the warriors and immortals. There aren't actually all that many anti-horde options in crons.

yeah i think i played the decurion for about two weeks before i moved back to old school bound builds i haven't had a chance to really dabble with alot of the units in the codex, as our local mini stores are not GW so they kind of have a little of this and a little of that..meaning most of the time its stuff i don't need. Yes orks are necron bane, they are all up in your metal ass before you even have a chance to soften them up with gauss fire. I still don't feel that the decurion is broken by any means, but on the flip side i play with good friends so we all have the respect to not roll out the cheese lists...

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

You know, I almost feel bad for you, until you mentioned Eldar and Wraithknights. I'll be over here with my S4 Bolters....

 jreilly89 wrote:

You know, I almost feel bad for you, until you mentioned Eldar and Wraithknights. I'll be over here with my S4 Bolters....

Or you could kill his 1500 points of wraithknights with your multiple squads of invisible grav centurions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Purifier wrote:

I think I can count the amount of times obsec has made a difference for holding an objective for me on one hand.
When I started Skitarii and realised they didn't have obsec it was the biggest non-issue I had not given a toss about in my 40k career.

I haven't played it yet, but it seems like the new Knight formation giving IK obsec is a pretty crazy good bonus.

 Xerics wrote:

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

That would be exceedingly rare. Like 3.7 % chance if shot by the Tesseract Vault that is more expensive than the Wraithknight and at best a 2.3 % chance if shot by a regular C'tan.

SGTPozy wrote:
Whilst there may have been 4 Necron players in the top 10 but remember they got beat by Orks (an army that people consider bottom-tier for some reason)

For good reason they concider them low tier. But the weakness against Orks for the Crons lies in their mediocre range and overall crappy ability to survive in CC (Most units) Orks can close in fast and have reroll on a charge dice. Before the Crons can pour out a good amount of fire power the Orks are already at their doorstep.. And corns aint that fast so outmanouvering is quite hard.

Ratflinger wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

That would be exceedingly rare. Like 3.7 % chance if shot by the Tesseract Vault that is more expensive than the Wraithknight and at best a 2.3 % chance if shot by a regular C'tan.

He uses a regular old Nightbringer. Everyone at the game store Laughs at him because he uses it but every game it kills more points that its cost somehow. In my game the wraithknight is the only thing he killed before i removed it from the board (I didn't want anymore of my wraithknights shot off the board...) but even that 1 Kill gave him his return on investment.

 Xerics wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

That would be exceedingly rare. Like 3.7 % chance if shot by the Tesseract Vault that is more expensive than the Wraithknight and at best a 2.3 % chance if shot by a regular C'tan.

He uses a regular old Nightbringer. Everyone at the game store Laughs at him because he uses it but every game it kills more points that its cost somehow. In my game the wraithknight is the only thing he killed before i removed it from the board (I didn't want anymore of my wraithknights shot off the board...) but even that 1 Kill gave him his return on investment.

Ah! Well, Nightbringer would actually stand a better change against the Wraithknight, but realistically it is the Gaze of Death rather than the D shooting that can hurt it. Nightbringer would only have a 1.9 % change to gib a Wraithknight with Strength D shooting.

Ratflinger wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

That would be exceedingly rare. Like 3.7 % chance if shot by the Tesseract Vault that is more expensive than the Wraithknight and at best a 2.3 % chance if shot by a regular C'tan.

He uses a regular old Nightbringer. Everyone at the game store Laughs at him because he uses it but every game it kills more points that its cost somehow. In my game the wraithknight is the only thing he killed before i removed it from the board (I didn't want anymore of my wraithknights shot off the board...) but even that 1 Kill gave him his return on investment.

Ah! Well, Nightbringer would actually stand a better change against the Wraithknight, but realistically it is the Gaze of Death rather than the D shooting that can hurt it. Nightbringer would only have a 1.9 % change to gib a Wraithknight with Strength D shooting.

Well he gibbed it first turn with D, and it isn't the first time he has done it (he has only played about 5 games against me) so i guess my dice like him a lot more than they like me.

 Xerics wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

My friend has enough Necrons now to run at least 1 of Every Formation in the codex just so he can try them all out. Even though he is a relatively new player he has done THE most damage to my Eldar out of anyone in my local area. Even 5 Knights did less damage than his army. Nothing like randomly rolling you Str D Ctan power and one shotting one of my wraithknights on the top of turn 1...

That would be exceedingly rare. Like 3.7 % chance if shot by the Tesseract Vault that is more expensive than the Wraithknight and at best a 2.3 % chance if shot by a regular C'tan.

He uses a regular old Nightbringer. Everyone at the game store Laughs at him because he uses it but every game it kills more points that its cost somehow. In my game the wraithknight is the only thing he killed before i removed it from the board (I didn't want anymore of my wraithknights shot off the board...) but even that 1 Kill gave him his return on investment.

Well, grats to him for fielding the Nightbringer against multiple Wraithknights. I know I never would.

Throwing in my 1st and ond only as of yet experiance with the new dex.

Decurion formation, maybe not 100% optimized. Probably could have a done a bit better with the list. But my orks smashed the 'crons into the floor. Utterly. No contest. Necrons got dunked. No lychguard. But plenty of Immortals and Wraiths and "Powerful" things in the list.

I had 45 Lootas, warboss MA DLS, x5 Megas, and the rest boyz. 2000 pts. Smashed him into the ground. Had a sorta game that went unfinshed in which his Necrons did ok. They were still gonna lose but they did a little better

The nightbringer, especially in formation with the god shackle, is awesome. I think the formation is about 490 points but it is almost indestructible with T8, 3+ 4++ 5+++ 8 wounds, able to regain wounds from Gaze, and an absolute beast in combat with fleshbane. Eternal warrior is just awesome on it too. Goes toe to toe with most other specialist CC HQ and wins. It looks averageon paper, but it is impossible to kill and damage is outstanding.

Ffyllotek wrote:
The nightbringer, especially in formation with the god shackle, is awesome. I think the formation is about 490 points but it is almost indestructible with T8, 3+ 4++ 5+++ 8 wounds, able to regain wounds from Gaze, and an absolute beast in combat with fleshbane. Eternal warrior is just awesome on it too. Goes toe to toe with most other specialist CC HQ and wins. It looks averageon paper, but it is impossible to kill and damage is outstanding.

I wish he had a 3+ armor....

Sorry... my mistake. I meant you can take the 3+ on the crypteks now, or 4++ invuln on shard, and then 5+ FNP or 4+ RP whichever you choose!

Ffyllotek wrote:
Sorry... my mistake. I meant you can take the 3+ on the crypteks now, or 4++ invuln on shard, and then 5+ FNP or 4+ RP whichever you choose!

Crypteks have a 4+ armor as well.

/shutting up now

They may not be able to have a 3+ but one of the Crypteks could have a 2+ Armour Save via the Nightmare Shroud.

I tend to beat them as marines, guard, and inquisition fairly regularly. I think your post was quickly after you got beat, either that or people are relying on super heavies too much.

 Brennonjw wrote:
I tend to beat them as marines, guard, and inquisition fairly regularly. I think your post was quickly after you got beat, either that or people are relying on super heavies too much.

In all fairness, my friends have all fought me numerous times and I've used a variety of lists. They still don't ever want to fight Newcrons.

Nightbtinger is also only T7. Not that D weapons care about your T or armor saves >.>

 Xerics wrote:
Nightbtinger is also only T7. Not that D weapons care about your T or armor saves >.>

Godshackle. Ups S and T by 1

Its the rerolling ones on RP from Mephrit that just clinches it - 4++/5+ FNP / 4+ RP rerrolling ones is brutal.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
Throwing in my 1st and ond only as of yet experiance with the new dex.

Decurion formation, maybe not 100% optimized. Probably could have a done a bit better with the list. But my orks smashed the 'crons into the floor. Utterly. No contest. Necrons got dunked. No lychguard. But plenty of Immortals and Wraiths and "Powerful" things in the list.

I had 45 Lootas, warboss MA DLS, x5 Megas, and the rest boyz. 2000 pts. Smashed him into the ground. Had a sorta game that went unfinshed in which his Necrons did ok. They were still gonna lose but they did a little better

I almost managed to table a quite decent Cron list at turn 2 (i went first) I managed it in turn 4 eventually... Damn Night Scythes are a real pain sometimes
My Bully boyz just smashed the crap out of those necrons. My bikers were doing great as well! Holding their own against wraiths... idk how they managed that but ok. And yeah.. lootas just devastate all those AV 13 vehicles and AS4 warriors...

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
They may not be able to have a 3+ but one of the Crypteks could have a 2+ Armour Save via the Nightmare Shroud.

Not if they're using the God Shackle, they can't. Mephrit relics OR generic relics.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
They may not be able to have a 3+ but one of the Crypteks could have a 2+ Armour Save via the Nightmare Shroud.

Not if they're using the God Shackle, they can't. Mephrit relics OR generic relics.

RAW that isn't actually the case.

Thank GW for releasing the campaign before the codex. If they'd released the codex first no doubt they'd have the same restriction the BA campaign relics do.

Huh.

Yeah... it's weird.

Honestly if GW was still in the business of FAQs they probably would've FAQed it soon after they released the codex.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Huh.

At the time the Necrons had no relic list. So instead of spoiling the new Necron codex, that everyone and their dog had figured out was coming, they wrote the Mephrit relics without the "these or the rulebook" restriction.

Also nosferatu:
How is a formation getting a benefit from an FoC? Nevermind the fact that Crownworld Reawakened only applies to Troops.

Also fun fact, despite clearly being an FoC the Crownworld Reawakened rule in the digital version of Exterminatus refers to the Mephrit Dynasty Cohort as a formation.