Inkubas wrote: In your own codex, what named HQ would you be OK with losing to advance the plot?
Please name at least ONE named HQ and why.
We already lost half the named HQs from the IG codex anyway. Jokingly,I'd Marneus Calgar. Seriosuly, Mal Thraka and Yarrick, because I want some resoloution to the Armaggeddon wars.
The supporting chaos characters are much more interesting. Kharne, Typhus, Ahriman, and Lucius have much more interesting back story's than Abbadon. For the pivotal character of The Great Enemy the writing of his plotlines and fluff is very poor.
Peregrine wrote: Characters are for losers. Kill off whoever you want, and then promote the next anonymous guardsman (with identical rules) to replace them.
Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.
He's just a rip off of Saint Celestine with a less interesting backstory.
The Blood Angels already Special Snow Flakes enough without a magical spirit that pops out of nowhere and may or may not be their reincarnated Primarch.
Azrael for sure....then they can scrap that midget of a miniature.
Promote Belial and then people can create there own actual Master of the deathwing.
on second thoughts, kill sammael, then the ravenwing strikeforcecouldnt be legally played!!
Breton wrote: Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.
People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.
I'd say, honestly to see what interesting story could come out of it, Aun`Va, but as far as a character I dislike immensely, Lucius the Eternal. Everyone says how useless Abbadon is, and they're right, but by the Emprah is he a useless pile of bullocks. Git rid of him!
I'd definitely have to say Marneus Calgar. Cato Sicarius is far more Gullimanesque and a better fit to lead the Ultramarines, IMO. Despite being the big cheese there seems to be strikingly little actual fluff on Calgar, at least in the codex. (Admittedly, I do not read the novels.)
j31c3n wrote: I'd definitely have to say Marneus Calgar. Cato Sicarius is far more Gullimanesque and a better fit to lead the Ultramarines, IMO. Despite being the big cheese there seems to be strikingly little actual fluff on Calgar, at least in the codex. (Admittedly, I do not read the novels.)
Yeah, Cato seems to be more of a strategist and tactician, orchestrating how the troops work, just like the primarchs. Calgar, instead is more about punching things and being a warrior hero guy. That's just my pov, I don't really read ultramarines fluff.
bullyboy wrote: Azrael for sure....then they can scrap that midget of a miniature.
Promote Belial and then people can create there own actual Master of the deathwing.
on second thoughts, kill sammael, then the ravenwing strikeforcecouldnt be legally played!!
..Why the hell would you kill the thing that makes your Codex usable?
bullyboy wrote: Azrael for sure....then they can scrap that midget of a miniature.
Promote Belial and then people can create there own actual Master of the deathwing.
on second thoughts, kill sammael, then the ravenwing strikeforcecouldnt be legally played!!
..Why the hell would you kill the thing that makes your Codex usable?
Captain Tycho. Reason being he's dead already toss him out of the codex. If i want a bad ass for my death company I'll take lemartes or astorath. Tycho never really was interesting all you read about is how he was loved and was dantes replacement then how he joins death company and dies. I mean as far as tycho goes he's pretty shooty for a crazed nut bag that's supposed to get into combat and tear things apart. But if mophiston doesn't get his act straight he might end up on that list.
the_scotsman wrote: Ghazghkull, Abbadon, Guard already lost like seven named characters, Marneus Calgar, Swarmlord, Draigo, Logan Grimnar, Stormlord, Farsight, Eldrad, Vect.
All the Mary Sues. Have them kill each other.
Heck take all the SM characters.
All of them?
You know that like only the Ultra-Smurf ones are Mary Sues, the other chapter ones are pretty sweet, besides..that is alot of special characters to kill off
All the codex ones, all the forge world ones and all the badab war ones. Thats like around 30 or so.
the_scotsman wrote: Ghazghkull, Abbadon, Guard already lost like seven named characters, Marneus Calgar, Swarmlord, Draigo, Logan Grimnar, Stormlord, Farsight, Eldrad, Vect.
All the Mary Sues. Have them kill each other.
Heck take all the SM characters.
All of them?
You know that like only the Ultra-Smurf ones are Mary Sues, the other chapter ones are pretty sweet, besides..that is alot of special characters to kill off
All the codex ones, all the forge world ones and all the badab war ones. Thats like around 30 or so.
Cato Sicarius.
I just know if GW decides to kill Calgar one day, Sicarius will be promoted to Chapter Master, even if he isn't the First Company Captain. And I'd rather have Agamemnon as Ultramarine CM then.
bullyboy wrote: Azrael for sure....then they can scrap that midget of a miniature.
Promote Belial and then people can create there own actual Master of the deathwing.
on second thoughts, kill sammael, then the ravenwing strikeforcecouldnt be legally played!!
..Why the hell would you kill the thing that makes your Codex usable?
to teach GW how to write rules correctly!
'Cept the rules are perfectly fine. It's just the Deathwing that god screwed over.
j31c3n wrote: I'd definitely have to say Marneus Calgar. Cato Sicarius is far more Gullimanesque and a better fit to lead the Ultramarines, IMO. Despite being the big cheese there seems to be strikingly little actual fluff on Calgar, at least in the codex. (Admittedly, I do not read the novels.)
Yeah, Cato seems to be more of a strategist and tactician, orchestrating how the troops work, just like the primarchs. Calgar, instead is more about punching things and being a warrior hero guy. That's just my pov, I don't really read ultramarines fluff.
The fluff says he's an amazing commander. and the rules certinly support this (Calgar might be a pretty sick power house, but he's also been pretty consistantly a leadership buffer unit as well) but the events they show consists of "Calgur punches out X" It's a classic Wardian problem of telling us but not really showing us. the focus of the fluff on Calgar at Mcragge is a good example. it's all about CALGAR VS THE SWARM LORD YEAAAAH! Instead I'd have written about Calgar the commander. the man who lead the sucessful defence of ultramar from the alien invaders, and noting that the tatics learned and developed by Calgar are the very foundation of the IoM's anti-tyranid tactics etc. he's described as being the next coming of Gulliman, so they really need to show us a unparlleled head for stragety
BrianDavion wrote: I love how the people who obviously didn't read the full question are almost all universally bashing the UMs
Well, they do deserve quite a bashing
Indeed. There is only one Smurf special character that I actually like: Cassius. His 1d4chan page pretty well also tells why I'm not very fond of the others.
You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters.
On a more serious note, i would like creed to die as being called a genius for simply outflanking your enemy with titans is bland an weak.
The third edition hq he replaced had muxh better fluff and interesting stats. In terms of plot advancing it woulf be nice to see chaos finally destroy or conquor cadia. Then to have ghazzy xome n counter attack into cadia and thr eye of terror with 2 gods directly protecring him. Would be cool... i wonder if those gods powers and ability to protect or influence events would even extend into the eye....
BrianDavion wrote: I love how the people who obviously didn't read the full question are almost all universally bashing the UMs
Well, they do deserve quite a bashing
Indeed. There is only one Smurf special character that I actually like: Cassius. His 1d4chan page pretty well also tells why I'm not very fond of the others.
You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters.
True, sadly. I don’t mind some of those. Ultramarines should have some of the best commanders. But are we known for our librarians? Not really. I preferred the days when Tigurius was a bit overpriced and mediocre, but had some nice perks. Chronos should have been an Iron Hands special character. Talion would have made a fine Raven Guard.
Remember, all fluff in 40k is biased propaganda. And Ultramarines are arrogant, prideful, hubris-filled guys. Of course we’re the BEST EVAR! That’s what we tell people. Now if you excuse me, I need to put down an internal coup by our second company...
I'd happily lose Yriel, never really liked him. And they could set it so he dies and which leads to Iyanden having no one living aboard. This could be set as the start of a slow lead up to the Rhana Dhandra
BrianDavion wrote: I love how the people who obviously didn't read the full question are almost all universally bashing the UMs
To be fair, the nature of the SM codex means that it is quite possible to wish for the death of a named HQ that is in your codex but not your faction, though I doubt every one crying for Calgar's head plays SM.
With that in mind, another vote for Calgar, even though he's a Lord of War.
Dude can tell the future almost with 100% accuracy. Yet, if something happens that isn't according to what he said, he goes back in time and makes it happen and then has the balls to say I told you so.
Azrael - He's an arrogant, boring and frankly uninteresting chapter master, His backstory has no tales of epicness and he's a jack-of-all trades and master of none. Get rid of him.
Creed - Dry, and overused meme character. And honestly, just needs rid of. Replace with someone like either CC gaunt or Caine.
Vector Strike wrote: Eh, none. All Tau HQs are important and have good reason to be in the codex.
But they're all TERRIBLE. As someone who mains(and has only lost one game with Tau) I'd kill 'em all
Dunno.
Farsight netted us an entire supplement and more fluff. His rules aren't bad (good melee, good warlord trait) and he's not that expensive.
Shadowsun was miles better back in 6th, when she could join Crisis in deployment. Now she needs to wait with Stealth Suits or Kroot before jumping to join Crisis. Her other rules are good, though. Her fluff isn't as fleshed out as Farsight's, but she's an interesting counterpoint to him.
Aun'Shi got himself captured by the Dark Eldar and showed them who's the boss on Comorragh's pits (in his last novel). He's badass, just have bad rules.
Aun'Va is much better than his last incarnation, but still fragile. I'd field him only inside a building. But his evil-esque hold on the empire is a nice thiing for fluff
Darkstrider have 2 very interesting rules and can at least join units.
I'm not really keen on R'myr and R'alai, but the latter have interesting rules.
For the fluff...
The only TAU HQ that decided to disregard it's orders and pursue his own cause is FarSight. Plus, the guy is hiding behind 8 other members of 'Tau Armor Shield', "leading" the attack.
Give Orks another chance? 1-1? Dump the armor. Chest to chest!
bullyboy wrote: Azrael for sure....then they can scrap that midget of a miniature.
Promote Belial and then people can create there own actual Master of the deathwing.
on second thoughts, kill sammael, then the ravenwing strikeforcecouldnt be legally played!!
..Why the hell would you kill the thing that makes your Codex usable?
to teach GW how to write rules correctly!
'Cept the rules are perfectly fine. It's just the Deathwing that god screwed over.
I think one of the 4 would be a better replacement. I would like to see all of them fight it out, but my money is on Typhus and his destroyer hive. Leader of the red corsairs, Huron was kinda weak, although I do love to infiltrate some zombies, He is still not worthy.
redleger wrote: I think one of the 4 would be a better replacement. I would like to see all of them fight it out, but my money is on Typhus and his destroyer hive. Leader of the red corsairs, Huron was kinda weak, although I do love to infiltrate some zombies, He is still not worthy.
I think the leader of the Black Legion would always have to be Chaos Undivided. Giving one God's cult more influence than the others would be a civil war waiting to happen...
Vector Strike wrote: Eh, none. All Tau HQs are important and have good reason to be in the codex.
But they're all TERRIBLE. As someone who mains(and has only lost one game with Tau) I'd kill 'em all
Dunno.
Farsight netted us an entire supplement and more fluff. His rules aren't bad (good melee, good warlord trait) and he's not that expensive.
Shadowsun was miles better back in 6th, when she could join Crisis in deployment. Now she needs to wait with Stealth Suits or Kroot before jumping to join Crisis. Her other rules are good, though. Her fluff isn't as fleshed out as Farsight's, but she's an interesting counterpoint to him.
Aun'Shi got himself captured by the Dark Eldar and showed them who's the boss on Comorragh's pits (in his last novel). He's badass, just have bad rules.
Aun'Va is much better than his last incarnation, but still fragile. I'd field him only inside a building. But his evil-esque hold on the empire is a nice thiing for fluff
Darkstrider have 2 very interesting rules and can at least join units.
I'm not really keen on R'myr and R'alai, but the latter have interesting rules.
Don't get me wrong. I dig the fluff and the supplement is great as long as you don't play farsight. In game though if you have any one of those HQ's on the board and win you played a bad player, a bad list, a combo of a percentage of each, or got lucky.
BrianDavion wrote: I love how the people who obviously didn't read the full question are almost all universally bashing the UMs
Well, they do deserve quite a bashing
Indeed. There is only one Smurf special character that I actually like: Cassius. His 1d4chan page pretty well also tells why I'm not very fond of the others.
You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters.
True, sadly. I don’t mind some of those. Ultramarines should have some of the best commanders. But are we known for our librarians? Not really. I preferred the days when Tigurius was a bit overpriced and mediocre, but had some nice perks. Chronos should have been an Iron Hands special character. Talion would have made a fine Raven Guard.
Remember, all fluff in 40k is biased propaganda. And Ultramarines are arrogant, prideful, hubris-filled guys. Of course we’re the BEST EVAR! That’s what we tell people. Now if you excuse me, I need to put down an internal coup by our second company...
Actually with the latest Dex I think Chronos shouldn't be a character at all. or more to the point they shoiuld have renamed him something like "Astartes tank commander" and simply noted in the fluff Chronos was one of the most well known ones. as it is right now Ultramarines have an intreasting advantage in that they can take a tank as a HQ. this makes Ultramarines specificly proably the best chapter to play if you want to run a tank list. Indeed, it proably makes UMs the best faction for armored lists outside the IG. I'll take it but it feels... wrong somehow
it's sort of a hold over flaw IMHO from a differance in design philophsy from the old 5th ed book vs the 6th/7th edition chapter tactics.
Back in 5th edition it seemed characters where intended to be basicly your chapter tactics. so if you wanted salamnders fluffy rules you took Vulken. etc Ultramarine characters where thus generic but a bit of a cut above. but could easily be proxied for something else. thus you could use Lysander to field fists and then use tigurius as "jim bob master libaraian of the imperial fists"
Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.
"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.
Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an entire sector of the IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.
Red Marine wrote: Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.
"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.
Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an enter sector of tje IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.
Red Marine wrote: Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.
"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.
Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an enter sector of tje IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.
Then no one would feth with me. Ever. It would be me in all those "Kharn is so fun" jokes. I'd be the one blamming people and throwing Baneblades. I'd be the life of the Chaos party and everyone would want to potentially get smoked in the face with my chainaxe, which I would rename Cassandra.
Mosyly though, I just want to kill Kharn so I can keep all the fluffy kittens for myself. That Kharn guy is a kittie hog. Every time we go to that cat cafe in Japan, he steals all the cats somehow and glares death at anyone who even so much as thinks of petting one of "his" cats. Kharn is a fething kittie hog. feth that guy.
They could kill all the characters except perhaps fabius bile, and that T6 half bionic space marine. The characters are so bland in 40k and just stay frozen in plotlines like all the armaggedon and Eye of Terror campaign characters that its boring beyond belief once you start reading about it.
They made great work of the backstory with the Horus Heresy. Why not make great stories by advancing the timeline a little every year? They have decent writers in GW, they're just railroaded into not ever writing anything of interest.
triplegrim wrote: They could kill all the characters except perhaps fabius bile, and that T6 half bionic space marine. The characters are so bland in 40k and just stay frozen in plotlines like all the armaggedon and Eye of Terror campaign characters that its boring beyond belief once you start reading about it.
They made great work of the backstory with the Horus Heresy. Why not make great stories by advancing the timeline a little every year? They have decent writers in GW, they're just railroaded into not ever writing anything of interest.
Because 40k is a setting, not a story. This is illustrated by the fact that both Eldrad and Captain Tycho have been killed in the fluff. Not only were these characters still in the game, but the "plot" did not advance at all through their passing.
EDIT: Also, IMO, the Horus Heresy series is garbage. It becomes more convoluted and meaningless with every additional novel, to the point where that entire event has lost most of its appeal to me.
triplegrim wrote: They could kill all the characters except perhaps fabius bile, and that T6 half bionic space marine. The characters are so bland in 40k and just stay frozen in plotlines like all the armaggedon and Eye of Terror campaign characters that its boring beyond belief once you start reading about it.
They made great work of the backstory with the Horus Heresy. Why not make great stories by advancing the timeline a little every year? They have decent writers in GW, they're just railroaded into not ever writing anything of interest.
Breton wrote: Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.
People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.
Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.
Breton wrote: Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.
People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.
Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.
Breton wrote: Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.
People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.
Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.
Eh, there is still a Death Company version of Tycho so ultimately he is still dead. His death wasn't so much retconned as the BA codex was brought back a step in the timeline. Shield of Baal takes place at the same time as Tycho's time in the 3rd War of Armageddon, his death is imminent.
Yarrick kills Ghazghkull on Armageddon by shooting him in the eye using his Baleful Eye, but dies soon afterwards from his wounds. Ghaz's body is mounted on a random Chimera who happened to be nearby as a trophy, while Yarrick's body is given a dignified cremation twenty seconds later by a crashing Burna-Bommer. Without Ghaz to lead them, the Ork armies quickly fracture and the Warbosses realise they need a solution lest the humans roll over them while they are shattered. The solution is obvious - who has done the most to further the Ork cause, much more than Ghaz ever did? The answer, of course, is da Lucky Stikk. Da Lucky Stikk is promptly chosen to be Warchief of the united Orks. However, the word 'Warchief' summons Chris Metzen from the Warp, who steals the Stikk and instead brings Thrall from Azeroth and makes him lead the Orks. Under Thrall's rule, the Orks become an honourable race, who 'did nothing wrong, honest' and were definitely just victims all along.
Meanwhile, in the vacuum left by Yarrick, Creed aspires to become the greatest hero of the Imperial frontlines. Unfortunately, his latest masterplan backfires when he accidentally infiltrates half of the Cadian 8th into his underpants, costing the Imperium another great hero. At the same time, reports come in that the Adepta Sororitas are under heavy assault by what is described as an 'angry Hive Tyrant mother crying for vengeance'. Jacobus is allegedly heard murmuring something about Praxedes, moments before he is scythed down by a creature that makes mama bear look like a snotling. The ensuing battle is described as being akin to Sanctuary 101 yet far more spectacularly disastrous.
Abaddon is on the precipice of launching another assault on Cadia during the chaos (hee), and because each of his previous Black Crusades achieved their objectives he manages to rally significant support. A week later, Mack - a conscript with a rusty old plasma gun he found down his grandma's road - shoots and kills the unhelmeted Abaddon, who Mack claims was 'frantically trying to somehow put a helmet over the stiff topknot'. Because the Daemon Primarchs are busy, as Kharn puts it, 'fapping in the warp', no obvious successor is seen - until Angron appears. He smashes Kharn through a nearby wall, and the Basilisk behind it, and the cultist horde behind it, causing spectacular destruction and significantly annoying Kharn. However, he follows his Primarch still as they start tearing into the Imperium.
The resulting genocide campaign sees each Chaos Space Marine kill ten thousand innocents in a devastating display of butchery.
Oh wait, that's only like ten billion people. The Guard usually lose that much during deployment. The entire campaign is written off as a numerical error.
Because 40k is a setting, not a story. This is illustrated by the fact that both Eldrad and Captain Tycho have been killed in the fluff. Not only were these characters still in the game, but the "plot" did not advance at all through their passing.
EDIT: Also, IMO, the Horus Heresy series is garbage. It becomes more convoluted and meaningless with every additional novel, to the point where that entire event has lost most of its appeal to me.
It can be a setting as much as it likes, but when they dont do anything interesting with it for 15 years, except a retconned Eye of terror campaign, and something about Medusa where the Vostroyans did something retconned as well, they might just as well drop having named special characters in them. If there at least could have been a closer look upon smaller elements of the setting; but instead its just more angry marines and repeating all the same facts we've known since 2. edition. Where's the new energy and freshness?
About the HH, I only read the first 6 novels, but I noticed it is wildly popular, at least commercially, having spawned a 30k line even. Why not consider a 41k then?
Red Marine wrote: Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.
"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.
Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an enter sector of tje IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.
Because 40k is a setting, not a story. This is illustrated by the fact that both Eldrad and Captain Tycho have been killed in the fluff. Not only were these characters still in the game, but the "plot" did not advance at all through their passing.
EDIT: Also, IMO, the Horus Heresy series is garbage. It becomes more convoluted and meaningless with every additional novel, to the point where that entire event has lost most of its appeal to me.
It can be a setting as much as it likes, but when they dont do anything interesting with it for 15 years, except a retconned Eye of terror campaign, and something about Medusa where the Vostroyans did something retconned as well, they might just as well drop having named special characters in them. If there at least could have been a closer look upon smaller elements of the setting; but instead its just more angry marines and repeating all the same facts we've known since 2. edition. Where's the new energy and freshness?
About the HH, I only read the first 6 novels, but I noticed it is wildly popular, at least commercially, having spawned a 30k line even. Why not consider a 41k then?
I used to love the idea of an evolving Storyline. Battletech/Mechwarrior has one, and thus I've gotten to see it in action and the inevitable concequences. suffice to say I'll pass. the result is useally every faction but the developers personal favorites are made complete and utter idiots, all so that the devs favorite faction can run around winning and thus proving their leader is a "genius"
I think one of the 4 would be a better replacement. I would like to see all of them fight it out, but my money is on Typhus and his destroyer hive. Leader of the red corsairs, Huron was kinda weak, although I do love to infiltrate some zombies, He is still not worthy.
None of those peasants could even hope to match the Warmaster.
OT: Tyranids shouldn't have SC at all. Way to put a face on the faceless army, GW.
Asmodai. Based on all the fluff I've read, I think he'll lead the DA towards a schism or confrontation with the IoM. Rule wise, he's not useful at all.
I know that I've asked for any HQ but I'll open it up to LoW as there seem to be a popular (or unpopular) demand to have some LoW killed off.
In typical DA fluff, I'd imagine he'd be killed by either a fallen, or by someone within the inner circle and his death kept hush hush.
In terms of being playable all of them. I never use named characters and always prefer to make my own, which is why I'm glad relics became a thing (even if only 2% of them are any good)
Made cgaracters offer more flexibility and customization, and with some better planned and made relics or other bought special rules we could make them into equilivants of what we have now for named guys.
Plus without them as playable characters we might see the story move on because we don't need to keep selling and making that old eldrad model anymore.
But I highly doubt we'll ever see any real meaningful character death, hell even warmachine that has a moving story line can't kill of anyone without an imminent reincarnation happening.
This is why I can't kill Abby. If I had to kill any HQ? Aside from the obvious Draigo because of how little coherent sense he makes and is only an outlet for matward's pent up Gulliman scribblings? Well for Chaos I would kill off... Heck, just now I realized how good our fluff is compared to the rest of 40k. Probably Lucius though since he has no place in an army full of super-powerful CC challenge champs and I would replace him with a rich as feth Slaanesh space pirate who has abilites that revolve around artillery and being really greedy.
Aside from the obvious Draigo because of how little coherent sense he makes and is only an outlet for matward's pent up Gulliman scribblings? .
except the question was "to advance the plot" and as far as the plot goes Dragio is BASICLY dead already (the current GK d'ex basicly ends with Dragio being sucked into the warp. I imagine i they moved it forward we'd see a new supreme grandmaster with Dragio being reported as lost) and honestly, after the new GK 'dex I do think Dragio could, in the right hands, be turned into a great "tragic hero"
With Slaanesh being killed off in AoS it may end up happening in 40k too. Major change to the fluff there for eldar and chaos.
I could see Prince Yriel doing something super with the spear of twilight to save the Eldar and get rid of Slaanesh for good, but in doing so the cursed spear takes his life.
I have always found the spear's statline to be very underwhelming when compared to its fluff, so I wouldn't be too sad to see him go.
Also if Yriel dies it leaves a space for Iyanna Arienal to return as the named character for Iyanden, and I believe a named spiritseer would fit that craftworld better than a named autarch anyway.
I could also see Eldrad dying (for a second time after he mysteriously came back to life) performing the greatest piece of magic ever seen.
But actually, I'd kill off Old One Eye. The idea that a Carnifex is just running around despite being "killed" several times and without any synapse, yet still controlling the beasts around him, is kinda annoying. Plus, his rules are pants-on'head stupid.
Asmodai for sure fluff wise he's awesome. In charge of making sure the fallen repent for the sins they committed against the lion and the emporer during the heresy. But on the table he sux coolish looking model with decent stats but his BOR are pointless!! Yeah if you use them instant death kool but they are only STR4 AP- everything I need to die by them is usually a lot tougher or has a 2+ save!
Red Marine wrote: . Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, the UM hate is envious twaddle.
Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.
Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.
The problem with the DA characters isn't the fluff, it's the LACK of fluff.
An oblique reference to some successor chapter that may or may not be legion building by Azrael is about all you have that's current. We know more about Cypher than we do any of the others. They don't need to kill the DA characters to advance the story, they need to advance A story for the DA characters. Give us some rivalry (not not the childish Agemman/Sicarius one) give us some grudges, etc. for the characters not the chapter.
Is the stupid Inquisitor-Dreadnought-thing still kicking around? The "Throne of Judgement" or some-such?
I'm not sure what edition he was from but by golly his model was exceptional only in it's "what the hell was the designer thinking and what was he on" thought provocation.
zgort wrote: Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.
I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.
flyingthruwater wrote: Is the stupid Inquisitor-Dreadnought-thing still kicking around? The "Throne of Judgement" or some-such?
I'm not sure what edition he was from but by golly his model was exceptional only in it's "what the hell was the designer thinking and what was he on" thought provocation.
zgort wrote: Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.
I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.
j31c3n wrote: I'd definitely have to say Marneus Calgar. Cato Sicarius is far more Gullimanesque and a better fit to lead the Ultramarines, IMO. Despite being the big cheese there seems to be strikingly little actual fluff on Calgar, at least in the codex. (Admittedly, I do not read the novels.)
I'm not sure if he even has any novel fluff. Calgar is the ultimate Mary Sue! He's just so good that GW couldn't come up with any actual details about how good he was that would do the hype justice.
So, a chapter specialising in the banishing of daemons finds it acceptable for some daemon-stylee brethren to join them? Seems a little too hypocritical for me
zgort wrote: Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.
I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.
If it's anything I saw 1d4chan call Belial that under the proper definition for stuff like fighting a high-ranking Space Marine to a stalemate as an unaugmented child.
But not sure if that's a fair assessment, or if it applies to the rest of our named characters.
A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.
Furyou Miko wrote: A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.
Which applies to none of the Dark Angels' characters as they're all either flaming donkey-caves or fairly humble compared to the stuff the Ultramarines get away with. Marneus Calgar rallied a bunch of peasants to slaughter what was basically an entire Chapter of Night Lords. Azrael gets into a duel with Kharn during the Pandorax Campaign and nearly loses his head and only survives because he melted a hole through the floor. Otherwise he was bleeding profusely and one of his arms was nearly hacked off. Belial got into a duel with old Ghazzy, and instead of winning in the typical Space Marine fashion nearly loses his head. And there's no rematch like with Calgar where he pulped the Swarmlord to save face for the character. Instead Belial is forced on his back foot and leads his force in a hit and run campaign as the Orks rip through Imperial lines.
Asmodai? I lost my sides over the concept of him being viewed as a mary sue. Asmodai is probably the single most heavily flawed loyalist space marine there is in the Imperium. He constantly threatens to demolish the Legion's standing in the Imperium with his constant desire for bull-headed moves while utterly sucking as an Interrogator Chaplain, having only claimed two black pearls. If anything the man should be demoted.
The Dark Angels are the furthest you can get from the concept of a Mary Sue, especially when compared to the Space Wolves or Ulramarines.
Marneus Calgar Papa Smurf. Lord Mary Sue of all Mary Sues.
Spiritual Liege of everything. He can feth right off. Has to be the single most annoying thing I've ever seen in 40k, including Draigo.
This is due to the fact hat every time I have met an Ultramarine player (most of the 40k players I have met, sadly), they have made him out to be the biggest most badass thing ever.
I want him to get canonically bitchslapped to death by failbaddon.
This is due to the fact hat every time I have met an Ultramarine player (most of the 40k players I have met, sadly), they have made him out to be the biggest most badass thing ever.
And only people who played 2nd Ed can truly know how cool Calgar is now compared to how he was then.
2nd Ed, alas I mourn it's loss, had psychology the same as Fantasy. Dante caused Terror via his Death Mask of Sanguinius (or I think, it's been a while so forgive me if I misremember a minor detail) The Dark Angels caused Terror also - I think Azrael's sword. Calgar caused Jack, and... well Calgar didn't cause anything. The best the whole Ultramarine chapter had, was Fear from their banner. Whoopee. I think during 3rd Ed he got even worse (but I don't remember for sure)
So, all things considered, I'm OK with letting Calgar be pretty cool for a while after a couple few editions of Ultramarines sucking hind teat.
Wyzilla wrote: [
Asmodai? I lost my sides over the concept of him being viewed as a mary sue. Asmodai is probably the single most heavily flawed loyalist space marine there is in the Imperium. He constantly threatens to demolish the Legion's standing in the Imperium with his constant desire for bull-headed moves while utterly sucking as an Interrogator Chaplain, having only claimed two black pearls. If anything the man should be demoted.
He was demoted too... or at least passed over for promotion, even if he was the most senior inquisitor chaplain or whatevs he is called.
You just have to love Asmodai though, with his bullheaded obesession.
I'd say the space wolves are the most mary sue of the chapters. Ultramarines follow the rules to a Tee. Sues useally break ALL the rules, but it's ok cause umm... it is
In 2nd Ed Marneus Calgar had Ws, Bs and I of 8 (higher than ANY other Space Marine in 2nd Ed) and had a Strategy Rating of 6 (the highest in the game!) so he's always been the best Chapter Master really
Furyou Miko wrote: A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.
I thought one of the traits of a Mary Sue was that they had no flaws?
Also, no bad decision they make will ever have negative consequences.
BrianDavion wrote: I'd say the space wolves are the most mary sue of the chapters. Ultramarines follow the rules to a Tee. Sues useally break ALL the rules, but it's ok cause umm... it is
Martel732 wrote: Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.
You mean that wolf wolfborn, under the command of the great wolf, isn't going to fight during the wolf times?
Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.
Their chapter master is both the most ferocious, unyielding warrior to grace the Imperium, but also the most compassionate for the little guy.
Martel732 wrote: Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.
You mean that wolf wolfborn, under the command of the great wolf, isn't going to fight during the wolf times?
Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.
Their chapter master is both the most ferocious, unyielding warrior to grace the Imperium, but also the most compassionate for the little guy.
Their navies are led by Honor Harrington. Now let me go give myself 30 lashes for typing that name.
Martel732 wrote: Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.
You mean that wolf wolfborn, under the command of the great wolf, isn't going to fight during the wolf times?
Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.
Their chapter master is both the most ferocious, unyielding warrior to grace the Imperium, but also the most compassionate for the little guy.
Their navies are led by Honor Harrington. Now let me go give myself 30 lashes for typing that name.
I actually like the Honor Harrington books and character, but I suppose she does fit the bill for a Mary Sue quite a bit. Never really thought about it until now...
Though, to be fair, I like the space battles and technical stuff more than most, and while I'm team manticore, the haven characters have grown on me...
Martel732 wrote: Honor Harrington is the Mary Sue by which all other Mary Sues are judged. Dammit, 30 more lashes.
Weber is one of the worst authors I've ever read. Rob. S. Pierre. Really? Sounds like a GW writer, actually.
I still find the books enjoyable, even if some of it is as you say. Maybe it will be more of a guilty pleasure now...
True that. I've just become very intolerant of sub-standard sci-fi after the Star Wars prequels. That's actually when I became intolerant of GW's crazy stupid fluff as well....
Furyou Miko wrote: A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.
I thought one of the traits of a Mary Sue was that they had no flaws?
Also, no bad decision they make will ever have negative consequences.
No, they can have flaws. Usually something along the lines of "low self-esteem so everyone pities her and is nice" or "self-harms to cope with the stress of being so wonderful", or the worst of all, 'is anorexic so she gets to be pretty AND looked after".
No, they can have flaws. Usually something along the lines of "low self-esteem so everyone pities her and is nice" or "self-harms to cope with the stress of being so wonderful", or the worst of all, 'is anorexic so she gets to be pretty AND looked after".
Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.
To be fair... The Space Wolves were originally the executioner chapter, that policed all the other forces of the imperium, killing other traitors. So who's gonna watch the watchmen, execute the executioners and wolf the wolfen?
Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.
To be fair... The Space Wolves were originally the executioner chapter, that policed all the other forces of the imperium, killing other traitors. So who's gonna watch the watchmen, execute the executioners and wolf the wolfen?
They were the self proclaimed executioners, which doesn't hold diddle to the rest of the Imperium, especially in M41. The Minotaurs would be closer to that role than the Wolves ever were.
The Emperor is implied to end them after one legion, and they suddenly get up their own ass about how they are the executioners. That's a space wolf for you! Just like how they turn the Thousand Sons traitor, and claim it as a victory for the Imperium. :p
Unremembered Empire has a space wolf squad there to watch Guilliman, and when they imply that they would kill Guilliman if he does anything funny, Guilliman pretty much pats them on the head and chuckles at how full of themselves they are.
Right before they get horribly killed by a different Primarch.
Crazyterran wrote: Unremembered Empire has a space wolf squad there to watch Guilliman, and when they imply that they would kill Guilliman if he does anything funny, Guilliman pretty much pats them on the head and chuckles at how full of themselves they are.
This is the first thing to ever make me want to read a Black Library book.
They were the self proclaimed executioners, which doesn't hold diddle to the rest of the Imperium, especially in M41. The Minotaurs would be closer to that role than the Wolves ever were.
.
Ok, I thought the emperor had used them to destroy both the unnamed primarchs and their legions. Would love to see the emperor finally pass away and the different space marine chapter to form their own realms, with an imperial remnant still worshipping the E as a god. Would make sense in the way that SM chapters fights each others all the time.
I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.
I may misunderstand what a Mary Sue is, I thought it was someone that was a "perfect" character. Somebody that is lacking...well...character. They always do the 'right thing,' don't make mistakes, never lose a fight, etc. That's how I see the DA special characters. They are all epic combatants...and that's about it. Where are the motivations/flaws/personal conflicts? That is what makes characters interesting. A blurb about their inexorable/meteoric rise to leadership is not what makes a good character.
EDIT: I am going off of the codex and the BRB only. I have not read any of the novels that include these characters
thing is codex entry alone sometimes makes it hard to judge. because the 'dexes are useally written in a "why this army is awesome" fashion.
thus depending on which dex you read, the greatest chapter master among space marines is "Marinus Calgar, Dante, Logan Grimnar, etc"
and I for one hope GW never changes in that regard. because it reduces the fun. UM fans and Space Wolf fans should sit down and argue over who'd win,Calgar or Logan, and then they should sit down and have a terrific game of 40k to attempt to prove it!
roflmajog wrote: With Slaanesh being killed off in AoS it may end up happening in 40k too. Major change to the fluff there for eldar and chaos.
I could see Prince Yriel doing something super with the spear of twilight to save the Eldar and get rid of Slaanesh for good, but in doing so the cursed spear takes his life.
I have always found the spear's statline to be very underwhelming when compared to its fluff, so I wouldn't be too sad to see him go.
Also if Yriel dies it leaves a space for Iyanna Arienal to return as the named character for Iyanden, and I believe a named spiritseer would fit that craftworld better than a named autarch anyway.
I could also see Eldrad dying (for a second time after he mysteriously came back to life) performing the greatest piece of magic ever seen.
Yes to Yriel dying. Maybe he does this in battle and is then somehow either intombed in a WK, or his sacrifice awakens a bad ass Avatar that actually gets gak done!
Alternatively, how about Illic headshots a power Necron HQ but this has a weird side effect of awakening hundreds of tomb worlds simultaneously?
Breton wrote: Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.
People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.
Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.
You must have missed that whole Tycho the Lost page, that was like, the very next page in the codex, that described his death in action during the third war for Armageddon, and his funeral rites. Tycho is dead. dead. dead. And no great loss.
Meanwhile, I'd like to see Sicarius bite it. If you've read the Space Marine Battles novel Fall of Damnos, he comes across as a careless, glory hungry, arrogant douche, who nearly gets himself and did get a lot of second company Ultramarines killed fighting the Necrons there.
I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.
I may misunderstand what a Mary Sue is, I thought it was someone that was a "perfect" character. Somebody that is lacking...well...character. They always do the 'right thing,' don't make mistakes, never lose a fight, etc. That's how I see the DA special characters. They are all epic combatants...and that's about it. Where are the motivations/flaws/personal conflicts? That is what makes characters interesting. A blurb about their inexorable/meteoric rise to leadership is not what makes a good character.
EDIT: I am going off of the codex and the BRB only. I have not read any of the novels that include these characters
I would kill Ghaz in a heart beat. Apparently the biggest baddest ork since the Emperor walked among the stars is a T5 W4 Ork Warboss with the incredibly ability to let meganobz run...once.....a game.
Ohh did i mention he doesn't have an invul except for 1 turn a game?
Could the orks please get some ridiculously OP character or hell just a halfway decent one that doesn't get killed by EVERY eldar character.
Ghazkuul wrote: I would kill Ghaz in a heart beat. Apparently the biggest baddest ork since the Emperor walked among the stars is a T5 W4 Ork Warboss with the incredibly ability to let meganobz run...once.....a game.
Ohh did i mention he doesn't have an invul except for 1 turn a game?
Could the orks please get some ridiculously OP character or hell just a halfway decent one that doesn't get killed by EVERY eldar character.
He even gets beat up by a puny humie...
Ghazzy is a badass concept, but he needs to be scarier, imo.
Martel732 wrote: Honor Harrington is the Mary Sue by which all other Mary Sues are judged. Dammit, 30 more lashes.
Weber is one of the worst authors I've ever read. Rob. S. Pierre. Really? Sounds like a GW writer, actually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre To be fair, that's one of GW's favorite shticks- reference historical figures with clever pun naming- it probably reached it's zenith with early Bretonian fluff blatantly ripping off Robin Hood, Camelot, and Joan of Arc.
You know..ghaz is lead up to be a badass, but GW will not write any lore to make the imperium look inferior to the an ork(or xenos) so changing the lore to make him an actual badass would be nice...maybe have him win the battle that orks and nids are having? and make the orks steamroll through the system.
Neither of which were the criteria the OP was looking for.... to advance the story, though to be fair that was long enough ago and ignored by enough to have been forgotten and lost.
To also be fair, how much story is actually held up by a character being alive- and how much of that is story they WANT to advance?
Obviously the "main" story is contingent upon the Emperor on the Golden Throne. But:
Adeptus Astartes: The death of any chapter master? Doesn't advance any stories but the sibling rivalry in the Ultramarines, and even most Ultramarines players don't care.
Adeptus Guard? If Creed dies? They're still not going to let Chaos have Cadia. The dividing line between the Eye of Terror and the Imperium is entirely too similar to the Star Trek Neutral Zone to give up that story hook.
Abbadon? Kharn? etc? Still won't change, the Imperium would fare no better in the Eye than Chaos does in the Imperium. That rivalry is too central to advance beyond the stalemate.
Eldrad? He's already risen from the dead. There is some logic to Yriel or someone killing Slaanesh however to continue to roughly mirror Fantasy and 40K, however the most likely outcome there is that whoever kills Slaanesh becomes Slaanesh in a Final Fantasy X/Sin ripoff hinted at in the rules for (Lucius the Eternal?)
Necrons? So kill a dead guy who comes back from the dead a little more insane than the last time.
Orks? Do they even have a (active) story line where they aren't a pawn in someone else's story? Ghaz vs Yarrick isn't really active right now. Of course that could be the next campaign, Battle for Armageddon IV This time, it's... the same as last time.
Nids? Like Necrons they just recyle and then reincarnate their dead, only instead of more insane, they're more experienced.
So if this is a question of who would you kill to advance the story, who are the lychpins keeping the story at the status quo?
The Emperor
The Demon Primarchs that are apparently above getting involved in the ultimate goal of their slave masters, maintaining the status quo by their absence?
GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal
Let the emperor die, or at least make campaigns like Eye of Terror and Medusa count and be resolved. It would add to the lore of the ongoing setting like the Badab war.
BrianDavion wrote: GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal
except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.
BrianDavion wrote: GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal
except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.
So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!
BrianDavion wrote: GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal
except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.
So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!
Really because I can think of a handful off the top of my head who are amazing. Mephiston and tigurius sticking out right away. Plus the average marine can just take Shield Eternal and a power fist (unless they took it away I don't know) and boom he is instantly better and significantly cheaper then ghaz.
BrianDavion wrote: GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal
except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.
So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!
Really because I can think of a handful off the top of my head who are amazing. Mephiston and tigurius sticking out right away. Plus the average marine can just take Shield Eternal and a power fist (unless they took it away I don't know) and boom he is instantly better and significantly cheaper then ghaz.
your average marine is a tatical marine. a tatical marine can take sheild eternal? really?
am I saying Ghazakull is great and couldn't use some love? no, but to think it's some sort of anti IoM conspiracy is silly. I'm sure there are a few IoM characters that kinda suck. hell Pedro only just got artifacer armor.
Orks already lost a couple characters so I don't think I'd want anymore to go. I definitely want to keep Ghazzy but he should probably get a tweak for the game itself. Brian got it right, what makes Ghazzy scary for the humans in the fluff is that Ghazzy is a genius by human standards. He's not trying to conquer anything instead he's trying to move from Waaaaagh to Waaaaagh to boost the psykic signals until each given Waaaaagh reaches perpetual levels like Armageddon is at right now. Ghazzy's supplement picks up the story where the BRB left off. Ghazzy already cleaned Octaria of all the Tyranids and just when finished the confidence levels rose to such a height that a sudden green psykic ping stretched across the galaxy which all psykers felt and even dimmed the Astronomicon briefly. A new tendril of Tyranids is heading to Octaria along with billions of Orks but Ghazzy is making plans to leave and find another Waaaaagh to boost since Octaria will be perpetual too now. After boosting enough Waaaaagh!s across the galaxy Gork and Mork will be able to tear themselves out of the Warp and enter real space. Yes eventually Ghazzy needs to get killed but his death itself will be a plot device since his existance is extremely important for Ork fluff atm.
triplegrim wrote: Let the emperor die, or at least make campaigns like Eye of Terror and Medusa count and be resolved. It would add to the lore of the ongoing setting like the Badab war.
Is the Emperor a named HQ?! *Furiously checks GW website for golden throne model
The Bloodsworn wrote: Kill Failbaddon any day- he's had 13 attempts at overthrowing the imperium, time to end it and let someone else have a crack!!!!
I would love to see that Abaddon isn't the prophesized Traitor King. Never really liked him and having read some of the Horus Heresy series, my dislike for him has only grown.
Im sorry, I guess I didn't understand the question. Well, if they would remove any character to ADVANCE the story, and it still makes sense is definitely killing slaanesh.
If that could happen (it totally could, because the harlequinns have a necron weapon capable of killing a chaos god), if it died, then the other 3 chaos gods could fight for slaaneshs' territory in the warp, creating the apocalypse on earth, hopefully making an eighth edition that is better than age of shitmar.
or just resolve the campaign in the eye, maybe adding a little closure, but that would make a very small difference.
Forwarding the story could mean anything, however these are the only few ways I could think to make it better.
Jeeeez, the salt in this thread Everyone's just listing the characters they personally hate, not the ones that would advance the plot...
I'd kill off Marneus Calgar, in an awesome way. Tyranids come back, the Swarmlord gets a rematch with the old man and kills him off, leaving the Ultramarines and their successors without leadership. Everyone then looks to Cato Sicarius - Can he become a leader of men and fight his own arrogance? What will a situation like this do to humble him? Character development
Aun'va. There's nothing wrong with him, but with him at the forefront, everything is too tight in the Tau Empire. With him dead (assassinated by another race, propably Necrons, Eldar or Dark Eldar), Shadowsun takes control and begins to turn the Empire into a true military state, while Farsight plans to rob the throne from her... Two old rivals fighting for control of an Empire, with the Ethereals losing power and control, civil war approaching, and aliens being involved? Character development
Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development
I'd kill off any character, as long as they die in an awesome fashion. So like:
- The Hive Mind tries to send out the Swarmlord one last time. So much biomass is used, the swarmlord resurrects, larger than it ever was. Cue kaiju film 40k. It ends with the Inquisition having to declare exterminate due to the Swarmlord being too big a threat.
- The prophecy of the Spear of Twilight comes true, and Yriel succumbs to it, however, not before using the spear's power, making a last stand to fight of Slaaneshi forces, saving his craftworld.
Heck, if they try to kill off an unlikable character this way, it might at least give the character a moment that people might find awesome.
Only because his loss would actually cause the Tau some social upheaval... debatable how much, but at least some.
Everyone else is easily given a military burial with full honours, right before everything carries on with business as usual.
Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.
New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.
What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.
And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.
Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development
What if Gork/Mork's new champion ends up being Yarrick? He speaks Ork, is Orky enuff to wield a Power Klaw, and is the Orkiest ummie in the galaxy.
Kidding of course.
But my one Character to kill is Lysander. He is a big jerk who almost got the entire 1st company killed (Sentinels of Terra I believe?) and was demoted. If he is killed, one of the First Founding chapters goes into disarray because of one death.
BrianDavion wrote: GW makes aliens look bad ass next to the IoM all the time. that said Orks are a general rule aren't a race you look to for quality. what makes Ghazkull so dangerous isn't his (admittingly impressive) physical prowess. it's that he mates it with a keen intellect. The Ork is both cunning and brutal
except that in every single game he gets randomly killed by garbage units and is only useful....wait...he isn't useful ever. SO yeah He sucks in the game so it would be nice if GW made him worth taking.
So he's a character in 40K whose game stats doesn't live up to his fluff? boy... THATS LIKE EVERY SPACE MARINE EVER!
Really because I can think of a handful off the top of my head who are amazing. Mephiston and tigurius sticking out right away. Plus the average marine can just take Shield Eternal and a power fist (unless they took it away I don't know) and boom he is instantly better and significantly cheaper then ghaz.
your average marine is a tatical marine. a tatical marine can take sheild eternal? really?
am I saying Ghazakull is great and couldn't use some love? no, but to think it's some sort of anti IoM conspiracy is silly. I'm sure there are a few IoM characters that kinda suck. hell Pedro only just got artifacer armor.
I meant your average space marine HQ, such as captains and chapter masters. But that aside, why is it every time someone mentions buffing an Ork character someone immediately says something about it not being a IoM conspiracy
Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development
What if Gork/Mork's new champion ends up being Yarrick? He speaks Ork, is Orky enuff to wield a Power Klaw, and is the Orkiest ummie in the galaxy.
Kidding of course.
But my one Character to kill is Lysander. He is a big jerk who almost got the entire 1st company killed (Sentinels of Terra I believe?) and was demoted. If he is killed, one of the First Founding chapters goes into disarray because of one death.
Each to their own - I'd rather not kill the jerks and idiots around the galaxy. I mostly don't care for the 'I'm da bestest' characters that plague the fluff, so the frw flawed and interesting characters around are like treasure to me.
Jimsolo wrote: Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.
New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.
What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.
And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.
Gazzkul could be killed, too - Defeated by Yarrick. Little did he know that this was a part of Gork and Mork's plan all along, because they have found themselves two new champions, that'll take over the biggest WAAAGH ever to live... Grukk Facerippa and Mogrok the Big Mek. When the Red Waagh, the Octarius Waagh and the Waagh on Armaggedon fuses, nothing can stop them. And on top of that, the twin gods will even have ready bodies to possess. How will Yarrick deal with two leaders at once? Might the only reason he survived have been that Ghazzy liked him as an opponnent, and will Grukk and Mogrok feel the same way? Character development
What if Gork/Mork's new champion ends up being Yarrick? He speaks Ork, is Orky enuff to wield a Power Klaw, and is the Orkiest ummie in the galaxy.
Kidding of course.
But my one Character to kill is Lysander. He is a big jerk who almost got the entire 1st company killed (Sentinels of Terra I believe?) and was demoted. If he is killed, one of the First Founding chapters goes into disarray because of one death.
This would hit so many sweet spots with me; plastic Steel Legion, new Yarrick and new Ghazzy models to boot! Make Ghaz an optional part of a plastic mega armoured Boss kit. Boom! In those three kits alone, I'd drop hundreds.
Eldrad already died, and war retconned back to life.
Abby will probably never die, due to GW thinking he's the bestest threat ever. He'd be Kayoss' Marty Stu, if it wasn't for the fact that everything he does fails.
I choose....all the orks! cause I hate orks, they are stupid....yeah that seems to be my reasoning...that might progress the fluff a little....can we un-get rid of some characters? Like...all the Tyranid ones that were removed cause Gw got their asses kicked?
Selym wrote: Eldrad already died, and war retconned back to life.
Abby will probably never die, due to GW thinking he's the bestest threat ever. He'd be Kayoss' Marty Stu, if it wasn't for the fact that everything he does fails.
He wasn't retconned back to life so much as the timeline skipped back an hour or so to before he died.
Jimsolo wrote: Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.
New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.
What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.
And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.
*has a quiet moment to mourn Yarrick*
I like Yarrick a lot, but that would work.
This would be an awosome way for Yarrick to go out.
Well I would like to say that I would be dissapointed if Yarrick died peacefully of old age. Mind you, rofl, it kinda would be funny. Still the man is a warrior, he's practically half Ork the beast, he should die in battle doing his absolute best defending the Imperium to the very end.
ProwlerPC wrote: Well I would like to say that I would be dissapointed if Yarrick died peacefully of old age. Mind you, rofl, it kinda would be funny. Still the man is a warrior, he's practically half Ork the beast, he should die in battle doing his absolute best defending the Imperium to the very end.
Amusingly, he was called to the 2nd war for Armageddon one day before his retirement.
Logan Grimnar -- I think he's just there to remind players what Leman Russ would be like.
If we get "40K End Times" Logan would almost definitely have to be killed off, so that the authors won't have to worry about writing what's basically two exactly same persona conversing with each other.
That and Space Wolves would get a major revamp with the current High King dead, there can be some interesting dramas and feuds within the chapter.
lcmiracle wrote: That and Space Wolves would get a major revamp with the current High King dead, there can be some interesting dramas and feuds within the chapter.
"WOLF WOLF!"
"WOLF WOLF WOLF, WOLF WOLF!"
"WOLF!!"
*They then beat the crap out of each other*
ProwlerPC wrote: Well I would like to say that I would be dissapointed if Yarrick died peacefully of old age. Mind you, rofl, it kinda would be funny. Still the man is a warrior, he's practically half Ork the beast, he should die in battle doing his absolute best defending the Imperium to the very end.
Amusingly, he was called to the 2nd war for Armageddon one day before his retirement.
That's awesome!
"Dat oomie ain't soft like da rest of da oomies, He's a right 'ard one he is."
I bet he wants to die in battle too but he's just too fething tough to go down.
lcmiracle wrote: That and Space Wolves would get a major revamp with the current High King dead, there can be some interesting dramas and feuds within the chapter.
"WOLF WOLF!"
"WOLF WOLF WOLF, WOLF WOLF!"
"WOLF!!"
*They then beat the crap out of each other*
Reminds me of something I came across recently:
Spoiler:
LOGAN GRIMNAR GETS A TALKING TO
"Brothers, brothers, let us call the grand convocation of chapter masters to order."
Slowly hush descended as various post human supermen put down glasses of wine or forkfuls of food, all save for Pedro Kantor and Helbrecht who were eating large spoonfuls of chocolate pudding whilst staring at Vladimir Pugh making loud mmmmmm noises. Pugh's face was growing redder by the second.
"Brothers, order please!" Dante of the Blood Angels slammed a fist on the lectern.
"I have called this conference to discuss a very pressing problem, I speak of course of the wolf issue."
Angry muttering filled the room, the Space Wolves new armoury had caused consternation in the fellow astartes chapters.
"Logan Grimnar, you and I have known each other for hundreds of years, we have fought by each other's side more times than I can remember so as a friend I have brought you here to tell you that this **** has to stop. We could cope with the Wolf Guard, **** it we could even deal with everything being called wolf but this." A picture of the the wolf sled appeared on the holo projector "This has to stop friend."
"Hypocrite!" bellowed a Space Wolf "Don't think we've forgotten about deep striking land raiders, or the obsession with blood."
"At least they're not furries!" a voice yelled and was met by a cheer.
Now it was Grimnar's turn to stand.
"Hunting Fenrisian wolves is part of our culture, we have a right to take trophies."
"So do we," rumbled Tu'shan of the Salamanders, "but you don't see us with ears and and tail." He gave a worried look at his fire drakes each covered is horns and scales and made a mental note to have a chat with them back on Nocturne.
"Logan we do not wish to insult you but we just wanted to show you how far-"
"You have come to being a total [see forum posting rules]!" yelled Gabriel Seth who threw a bread roll for added emphasis.
Logan gave a sigh as the roll stuck on the wolf pelt on his armor.
"Brothers, surely you can forgive a first founding chapter their..." he glanced at the wolf swords of his Wolf Guard "their little eccentricities, have we not done much for the cause of the Imperium. By our actions, the Inquisition have been told to back off from interfering in the affairs of our chapters and by our blades have countless innocent lives been saved" (muttering greeted this statement as the definition of 'innocent' was one that was up for close debate amongst the various chapters). "We all after all have our iconography, the Dark Angels bolt stonework to everything, the Salamanders have their scales, we have our wolves I find it breathtaking" Logan's voice raised to a deafening yell "that other chapters would have the audacity to interfere-"
"You make us all look ridiculous!" yelled a Silver Skull.
The debate raged for two hours more until eventually the Great Wolf and his Wolf Guard where driven from the hall in a hail of bread rolls and catcalls.
Later Logan found himself trudging the deep passages of the Fang, lost in his own thoughts, he had exchanged his armour for the loose tunics the Wolves wore when not in battle and his footsteps echoed through the dimly lit corridors he passed Murderfang being wrestled into containment by a trio of Iron Priests.
"YIFF!" it screamed gnashing at the air "YIFF! YIFF! YIFF!" Logan winced and carried onward to an ornate vault which swung open at his touch.
"LOGAN!" a voice boomed from the darkness "What brings you here this night?"
In an jewel encrusted alcove stood the squat form of Bjorn the Fell Handed, the ancient dreadnought beckoned with a claw.
"Come Logan, sit and tell me what ails you boy."
Logan pulled a short three legged stool from a corner, noting the mating wolves carved on the top. The Great Wolf sank forward head in his hands.
"Where did it all go wrong Bjorn? We used to be feared and loved. Everyone wanted to be us. When the chapter walked and met it's fellows, they would respect us. Now they laugh."
There was a mechanical sigh from the sarcophagus.
"It's because we just aren't scary anymore son. We used to be, gods we were downright terrifying. Do you know why people used to join us back in the day?"
"For honour, for being selected to fight in the Allfather's crusade?
"WRONG" yelled Bjorn "It wasn't for honour. It wasn't to see the stars. Sure as **** wasn't to pansy around with the Allfather, it was for these reasons: drinking, fighting, bitches. Becoming an astartes gave you lots of all three. We were supermen for crying out loud, all young and fired up and ready to go. People were scared of us not because we loved death but because we LOVED LIFE, we loved BEING an astartes, we loved the blood and booze and the pillaging. We were raiders and reavers and lunatics. You," Bjorn pointed a claw at Logan "have lost sight of that. "We had enthusiasm."
"But what does this have to with the whole 'wolf thing'?"
"Because you think the wolf thing was what gave us identity, made us special but it wasn't. What made us special was that we were sweaty beardy angry savages with guns and gene implants. We wore the teeth and totems to remind us of home. Wolves didn't define us, they were a part of the rich primal heritage of Fenris, one symbol amongst many."
Jimsolo wrote: Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.
New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.
What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.
And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.
Interesting. Then the finale could involve Thrakka and Yarrick in the midst of a huge melee, when a greater demon or prince rises from all the slaughter and starts talking smack, and both Ghaz and Yarrick turn to simultaneously powerclaw punch it in the face. Cue former enemies teaming up against the arse who interrupted their fight.
Jimsolo wrote: Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.
New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.
What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.
And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.
Interesting. Then the finale could involve Thrakka and Yarrick in the midst of a huge melee, when a greater demon or prince rises from all the slaughter and starts talking smack, and both Ghaz and Yarrick turn to simultaneously powerclaw punch it in the face. Cue former enemies teaming up against the arse who interrupted their fight.
No. Gazz dies and Yarrick leads the Orks AND guard against the chaos invasion himself.
Jimsolo wrote: Commissar Yarrick. But not in a throwaway thing, no.
New Campaign Book: Fourth War for Armageddon. As both Ork and Chaos-tainted armies close in on the planet to settle old grudges, the Imperium digs in for what may be the fiercest fight yet. But other alien races may be lurking in the fringes in order to pick apart any targets of opportunity.
What would it incorporate? New missions, and a mission-chain story campaign for 2+ players. (Culminating in the death of Commissar Yarrick defeating the forces of disorder.) In addition to the main plot, focused around Armies of the Imperium on one side and a sort of alliance-by-default between the Orks and the forces of Chaos, (who will undoubtedly fight one another when things are either resolved or get too boring!) the book would contain several optional side plots so that any odd armies your group may contain, such as Eldar, Tau, or Tyranids, would still be able to play in the ongoing campaign.
And of course, it all ends with a huge Apoc battle, in which the canon story ending sees Commissar Yarrick (and possibly Ghazgul?) die fighting a Chaos incursion of unbelievable proportions.
Interesting. Then the finale could involve Thrakka and Yarrick in the midst of a huge melee, when a greater demon or prince rises from all the slaughter and starts talking smack, and both Ghaz and Yarrick turn to simultaneously powerclaw punch it in the face. Cue former enemies teaming up against the arse who interrupted their fight.
No. Gazz dies and Yarrick leads the Orks AND guard against the chaos invasion himself.
You know what, I could get behind that. A desperate move only made possible because of him being basically revered by the Orks he fight.
If Yarrick beat any Ork Warboss and said "Alright Boyz me be knowing where da fighting is!" I bet the Orks under the former warboss would join Yarrick on his very own Waaaaaagh! even if it's against Orks.
I will not take that bet good sir, I would just be giving you money.
While that would be far better then killing him off if you ask me, I find it hard to picture him leading Orks after all he has given to the Imperium.
Though I do know who my WarBoss will be if I do make an Ork army....
I understand they have a small empire and small influence in the whole Galaxy.
But with all the bad guys, waagh... I am pretty sure it may not too difficult to send a large enough fleet and army to destroy all the farsight planets.
I'm gonna cheat a bit and say Aun'Va, Because if you read Mont'ka
(SPOILERS! DO NOT READ IF YOU DONT WANT SPOILERS!)
Spoiler:
Aun'Va is already dead, He was killed by an Imperial Assassin and since the Ethereals dident want to cause panic they replaced him with a hologram to make everyone think he's still alive. I want them to advance the story by removing the hologram and admitting he is dead, So they can elect a new Aun'O, Or a Ethereal Council, To replace him.
Lord Ruby34 wrote: Aun'shi. I mean, he just isn't that relevant to anything. I sometimes forget that he even exists.
Errr.. isn't Aun'shi very dead? Culexus killed him? Or was that Aun'Va?
aun'shi is the very terrible melee ethereal with ws 5 and i5 withe the rest of the ethereal stats that has a special ability to get rending or re-roll saves in challenges ( chosen before rolls of course ) . I don't even believe he gets the normal ethereal invocations either but could be wring , and to lazy to dig out the book
Merellin wrote: I'm gonna cheat a bit and say Aun'Va, Because if you read Mont'ka
(SPOILERS! DO NOT READ IF YOU DONT WANT SPOILERS!)
Spoiler:
Aun'Va is already dead, He was killed by an Imperial Assassin and since the Ethereals dident want to cause panic they replaced him with a hologram to make everyone think he's still alive. I want them to advance the story by removing the hologram and admitting he is dead, So they can elect a new Aun'O, Or a Ethereal Council, To replace him.
Spoiler:
It would be a very tau way of doing things too, Aun'va is(was?) considered old even by ethereal standards, so they could simply say he died of old age. That would not cause panic, and allow him to be replaced at the same time (with aun'shi ).
Abaddon on the Chaos side; I've never found him that interesting, and personally I prefer chaos forces that are loose alliances, usually happy to stab each other in the back afterwards. I actually prefer the idea that Chaos is dangerous, but that they could be even more dangerous if they ever united properly, having Abaddon around suggests that's already the case, yet the Imperium hasn't fallen, so there's no tension there at all.
I'd also like to see Kaldor Draigo die, though I really like the metal model; his fluff is just ridiculous, like it was written by some rabid fanboy whose character has to be the best at literally everything because penis size reasons. I'd like to see him die a mewling coward's death or even be corrupted, finally add an extra layer to the grey knights rather than just more of the same fan-fiction grade material they always get.
For Ultramarines I think I agree on Marneus Calgar; he's pretty boring and I've always found the double power fist aesthetic ridiculous. Of course we now have Logan Grimnar on a flying chariot, so I'd probably axe him too, but his model is new so that'll never happen.
Obviously I'd axe no-one from Sisters of Battle, since we only have two special characters left. But considering Uriah Jacobus is already supposed to be dead I'd see him replaced by someone else, and a whole bunch of new sisters characters added, and a new codex that doesn't suck ass and plastic kits for everything. Ahem.
For Eldar I'd axe the Phoenix Lords; GW seems to have no interest in actually releasing decent models for them, as well as a bunch of neglected aspect warriors. Maybe they could do aspect warrior kits that also build the corresponding Phoenix Lord, and slowly re-introduce them. But many have never been that interesting anyway, so it'd be nice to see them die in some huge battle a terrible blow to the Eldar but have them recover as new heroes take their place or something.
1) Sicarius - 'Cause feth that guy
2) Calgar - "Cause I wanna see who would be chosen as the next chapter master
3) Abadon - 'Cause I want the plot to continue WITH loyalists winning unlike poor fantasy.
4) Thrakka - 'Cause I want Yarrik to lead a WAAGH! against 'Nids or Daemons
He appears on a planet and goes off to help some poor Space Marines in need BUT...forgets to look before crossing the street and promptly gets run over by a Land Raider.
3) Abadon - 'Cause I want the plot to continue WITH loyalists winning unlike poor fantasy.
The loyalists are winning...
Did you not read the fluff? Creed is unstoppable.
@Selym: You mean apart from the Emperor running a high risk of being killed by daemons breaking into the Emperor's Palace through the Webway portal and murdering him? Thus dooming all of humanity... Yeah, sounds like we're winning lol.
3) Abadon - 'Cause I want the plot to continue WITH loyalists winning unlike poor fantasy.
The loyalists are winning...
Did you not read the fluff? Creed is unstoppable.
@Selym: You mean apart from the Emperor running a high risk of being killed by daemons breaking into the Emperor's Palace through the Webway portal and murdering him? Thus dooming all of humanity... Yeah, sounds like we're winning lol.
No, I'm talking about Cadia and Abaddon. Humanity's problems in the 40k setting have exactly nothing do do with the CSM forces because at best they come in raiding parties of about a dozen or so dudes, and they get taken out by lasguns. The "threatening" CSM forces are being held at bay by plot and Creed.
Now, Tyranids. That's a problem. Except on the TT.
Give Orks another chance? 1-1? Dump the armor. Chest to chest! 
