Muslim ninth grader arrested for bringing an electronics project to school
Ahmed Mohamed is a ninth-grader in Irving, Texas, who likes to tinker with electronics. On Monday, according to the Dallas Morning News, he built a simple electronic clock — a project he said took about 20 minutes — and strapped it inside a pencil case.
He showed the project to his engineering teacher, who praised the design but advised him not to show it to other teachers. Later, in Ahmed's English class, the clock beeped while it was in his bag. When he showed the project to his teacher, she thought it looked like a bomb.
He insisted that the clock wasn't a bomb, but the authorities at the school weren't impressed:
The teacher kept the clock. When the principal and a police officer pulled Ahmed out of sixth period, he suspected he wouldn’t get it back.
They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: "Yup. That’s who I thought it was."
Ahmed felt suddenly conscious of his brown skin and his name — one of the most common in the Muslim religion. But the police kept him busy with questions.
"They were like, ‘So you tried to make a bomb?’" Ahmed said.
"I told them no, I was trying to make a clock."
"He said, ‘It looks like a movie bomb to me.’"
According to the Dallas Morning News, the police arrested Ahmed and led him out of school in handcuffs. His school gave him a three-day suspension, and police are still investigating the incident.
The police's infuriating response to Ahmed Mohamed's arrest
On Monday, police officers in Irving, Texas, arrested a 14-year-old student named Ahmed Mohamed after he brought a homemade clock — an engineering project — to school, which one teacher reportedly suspected to be a bomb.
The incident has already raised widespread outrage over the detention of a clearly enthusiastic high school student who likes to tinker with electronics. The Wednesday afternoon response from Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd is unlikely to quell the anger. Instead of apologizing for an arrest that shouldn't have happened, Boyd essentially accuses Ahmed of being uncooperative and posing a threat — so much so that he had to be "handcuffed for his safety."
This, via the Associated Press, is the statement:
The student showed the device to a teacher who was concerned it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb. School resource officers questioned the student about his intentions, and the reason he brought the device to the school. The student would only say that it was a clock and was not forthcoming at that time about any other details. Having no other information to go on, and taking into consideration the devices suspicious appearance and the safety of the students and the staff at MacArthur High School, the student was taken into custody for possession of a hoax bomb. Under Texas law, a person is guilty of possessing a hoax bomb if he possesses a device that is intended to cause anyone to be alarmed, or in reaction of any time by law enforcement officers. Follow the standard procedures that we have, the student was handcuffed for his safety, and for the safety of the officers, and transported to a juvenile processing center here at the police station. Recognizing additional facts were required, the student was released to his parents until further investigation could be completed.
Boyd says Ahmed would "only say it was a clock and was not forthcoming at the time about any other details." It's unclear, however, what other information a high school engineering student would need to provide about his homemade clock — except for the fact it was a clock.
As to whether Ahmed did, in fact, need to be handcuffed, no one aside from Ahmed and the police know what exactly happened in their Monday interaction. But one photograph of the student's arrest makes it hard to believe that the 14-year-old kid in a NASA shirt posed a threat that required restraint.
Here's what the police statement doesn't contain: an apology. Nowhere does Boyd apologize for an arrest that shouldn't have happened. Instead, he uses his public statement to justify putting in handcuffs a high school student whose only crime was an enterprising extracurricular activity.
Irving's police chief announced Wednesday that charges won’t be filed against Ahmed Mohamed, the MacArthur High School freshman arrested Monday after he brought what school officials and police described as a “hoax bomb” on campus.
At a joint press conference with Irving ISD, Chief Larry Boyd said the device -- confiscated by an English teacher despite the teen’s insistence that it was a clock -- was “certainly suspicious in nature.”
“The student showed the device to a teacher, who was concerned that it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb,” Boyd said.
School officers questioned Ahmed about the device and why Ahmed had brought it to school. Boyd said Ahmed was then handcuffed “for his safety and for the safety of the officers” and taken to a juvenile detention center. He was later released to his parents, Boyd said.
“The follow-up investigation revealed the device apparently was a homemade experiment, and there’s no evidence to support the perception he intended to create alarm,” Boyd said, describing the incident as a "naive accident."
During the news conference, Boyd touted the “outstanding relationship” he’s had with the Muslim community in Irving. He said he talked to members of the Muslim community this morning and plans to meet with Ahmed's father later today.
Asked if the teen's religious beliefs factored into his arrest, Boyd said the reaction “would have been the same” under any circumstances.
“We live in an age where you can’t take things like that to school,” he said. “Of course we’ve seen across our country horrific things happen, so we have to err on the side of caution.”
Irving ISD spokeswoman Lesley Weaver also addressed the media, saying that information “made public to this point has been very unbalanced.”
She declined to provide details on how school officials handled the incident, citing laws intended to safeguard student privacy.
“We were doing everything with an abundance of caution to protect all of our students in Irving,” she said.
Irving Mayor Beth Van Duyne took to Facebook to defend the actions of the school district and police, saying their daily work helped make Irving “one of the safest cities in the country.”
“I do not fault the school or the police for looking into what they saw as a potential threat,” Van Duyne wrote. “We have all seen terrible and violent acts committed in schools. ... Perhaps some of those could have been prevented and lives could have been spared if people were more vigilant.”
The mayor later amended her post, acknowledging that she would be “very upset” had the same thing happened to her own child.
“It is my sincere desire that Irving ISD students are encouraged to use their creativity, develop innovations and explore their interests in a manner that fosters higher learning,” Van Duyne wrote. “Hopefully, we can all learn from this week’s events and the student, who has obvious gifts, will not feel at all discouraged from pursuing his talent in electronics and engineering.”
Shortly after the press conference, President Barack Obama extended a Twitter invitation for Ahmed to bring his “cool clock” to the White House. “We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It’s what makes America great,” the tweet read.
Josh Earnest, Obama's press secretary, said the case goes to show how stereotypes can cloud the judgment of even the most “good-hearted people.”
“It’s clear that at least some of Ahmed's teachers failed him,” Earnest said. “That’s too bad, but it’s not too late for all of us to use this as a teachable moment and to search our own conscience for biases in whatever form they take.”
The White House also extended the teen an invitation to speak with NASA scientists and astronauts at next month’s Astronomy Night.
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg also joined the social media chorus, extending an open invitation to visit and exhorting Ahmed to “keep building.”
“Having the skill and ambition to build something cool should lead to applause, not arrest,” Zuckerberg wrote. “The future belongs to people like Ahmed.”
Earlier Wednesday at a modest, red-brick house in central Irving, Ahmed and his family welcomed media crews at the front door and in the backyard as they tried to come to grips with the boy’s overnight ascension to international celebrity.
His sisters, 18-year-old Eyman and 17-year-old Ayisha, could hardly keep up with the tweets and stunning news about their little brother. Because Ahmed was never much for social media, the girls set up a Twitter account for him, @IStandWithAhmed, and watched it balloon to thousands of followers within hours.
“We’re trending No. 1!” Ayisha cried to her sister, holding a cellphone over a stuffed coffee table in the living room.
“It's a blessing and a curse,” Ayisha said of Ahmed’s arrest and subsequent fame. “I don’t think he’ll ever be able to live normally again.”
But they were happy for invitations to visit companies including Google and to move and study in other cities, and for the tweets of support, including one from Hillary Clinton. They recalled how, barely two days earlier, their brother described struggling to hold back tears in front of police officers after his arrest.
Ahmed, after finishing up another interview in the backyard, recalled his emotions as he was handcuffed at Irving MacArthur High School and removed from campus.
“I was really mad,” Ahmed said as he looked at a much-retweeted photo of himself in handcuffs. “I was like, ‘Why am I here?’”
A Council on American Islamic Relations representative then hustled Ahmed and his family off to talk to a lawyer.
After they left, Ahmed’s grandmother, Aisha Musa, lay on a bed in the dining room, resting her feet. She had immigrated from Sudan with the rest of the family years ago.
She doesn’t speak English or know her exact age, but her granddaughters translated her take on her grandson’s celebrity: “I want my son’s son to grow old and have a good job. I thank God there’s nothing people can say but [that] we are good people.”
Staff writers Avi Selk, Naheed Rajwani, Todd Gillman and Robert Wilonsky contributed to this report.
Update at 10:09 a.m. Wednesday: Former secretary of state and Democratic presidential candidiate Hillary Clinton joined the tidal wave of tweets supporting Mohamed Ahmed after his arrest Monday for bringing a homemade digital clock to school.
"Assumptions and fear don't keep us safe -- they hold us back. Ahmed, stay curious and keep building,” Clinton's tweet read.
Irving ISD officials and Irving police will hold a press conference at 11 a.m. Wednesday at the Irving Criminal Justice Center. We will continue to update this story as new developments emerge.
Update at 9:32 a.m. Wednesday: After the story of Ahmed Mohamed's arrest for bringing a homemade digital clock to school went viral Tuesday, triggering an outpouring of support for him on social media, Ahmed tweeted a thank-you early Wednesday.
Original story by Avi Selk:
IRVING — Ahmed Mohamed — who makes his own radios and repairs his own go-kart — hoped to impress his teachers when he brought a homemade clock to MacArthur High on Monday.
Instead, the school phoned police about Ahmed’s circuit-stuffed pencil case.
So the 14-year-old missed the student council meeting and took a trip in handcuffs to juvenile detention. His clock now sits in an evidence room. Police say they may yet charge him with making a hoax bomb — though they acknowledge he told everyone who would listen that it’s a clock.
In the meantime, Ahmed’s been suspended, his father is upset and the Council on American-Islamic Relations is once again eyeing claims of Islamophobia in Irving.
Box of circuit boards
A box full of circuit boards sits at the foot of Ahmed’s small bed in central Irving. His door marks the border where the Mohamed family’s cramped but lavishly decorated house begins to look like the back room at RadioShack.
“Here in high school, none of the teachers know what I can do,” Ahmed said, fiddling with a cable while a soldering iron dangled from the shelf behind him.
He loved robotics club in middle school and was searching for a similar niche in his first few weeks of high school.
So he decided to do what he’s always done: He built something.
Ahmed’s clock was hardly his most elaborate creation. He said he threw it together in about 20 minutes before bedtime on Sunday: a circuit board and power supply wired to a digital display, all strapped inside a case with a tiger hologram on the front.
He showed it to his engineering teacher first thing Monday morning and didn’t get quite the reaction he’d hoped for.
“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’” Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’”
He kept the clock inside his school bag in English class, but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson. Ahmed brought his invention up to show her afterward.
“She was like, it looks like a bomb,” he said.
“I told her, ‘It doesn’t look like a bomb to me.’”
The teacher kept the clock. When the principal and a police officer pulled Ahmed out of sixth period, he suspected he wouldn’t get it back.
They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: “Yup. That’s who I thought it was.”
Ahmed felt suddenly conscious of his brown skin and his name — one of the most common in the Muslim religion. But the police kept him busy with questions.
The bell rang at least twice, he said, while the officers searched his belongings and questioned his intentions. The principal threatened to expel him if he didn’t make a written statement, he said.
“They were like, ‘So you tried to make a bomb?’” Ahmed said.
“I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.”
“He said, ‘It looks like a movie bomb to me.’”
Police skepticism
Ahmed never claimed his device was anything but a clock, said police spokesman James McLellan. And police have no reason to think it was dangerous. But officers still didn’t believe Ahmed was giving them the whole story.
“We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb,” McLellan said. “He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation.”
Asked what broader explanation the boy could have given, the spokesman explained:
“It could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or under a car. The concern was, what was this thing built for? Do we take him into custody?”
Police led Ahmed out of MacArthur about 3 p.m., his hands cuffed behind him and an officer on each arm. A few students gaped in the halls. He remembers the shocked expression of his student counselor — the one “who knows I’m a good boy.”
Ahmed was spared the inside of a cell. The police sent him out of the juvenile detention center to meet his parents shortly after taking his fingerprints.
They’re still investigating the case, and Ahmed hasn’t been back to school. His family said the principal suspended him for three days.
“They thought, ‘How could someone like this build something like this unless it’s a threat?’” Ahmed said.
MacArthur Principal Letter to Parents
An Irving ISD statement gave no details about the case, citing student privacy laws. But a letter addressed to "Parents/Guardians" and signed by MacArthur Principal Dan Cummings said Irving police had "responded to a suspicious-looking item on campus" and had determined that "the item ... did not pose a threat to your child's safety."
‘Invent good things’
“He just wants to invent good things for mankind,” said Ahmed’s father, Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed, who immigrated from Sudan and occasionally returns there to run for president. “But because his name is Mohamed and because of Sept. 11, I think my son got mistreated.”
Mohamed is familiar with anti-Islamic politics. He once made national headlines for debating a Florida pastor who burned a Quran.
But he wasn’t paying much attention this summer when Irving Mayor Beth Van Duyne became a national celebrity in anti-Islamic circles, fueling rumors in speeches that the religious minority was plotting to usurp American laws.
However, the Council on American-Islamic Relations took note.
“This all raises a red flag for us: how Irving’s government entities are operating in the current climate,” said Alia Salem, who directs the council’s North Texas chapter and has spoken to lawyers about Ahmed’s arrest.
“We’re still investigating,” she said, “but it seems pretty egregious.”
Meanwhile, Ahmed is sitting home in his bedroom, tinkering with old gears and electrical converters, pronouncing words like “ethnicity” for what sounds like the first time.
He’s vowed never to take an invention to school again.
ON the surface... it's bad. Why fething wait a few hours later to question him in a room with four cops, and then later in handcuffs on the way to a juvenile detention center?
If it was truly a bomb... things would've moved a bit faster... no?
In America's defense, his name was Ahmed Mohammed. If he'd had an American name like Theodore, Timothy, or Eric, it clearly wouldn't have been a cause for an alarm.
ON the surface... it's bad. Why fething wait a few hours later to question him in a room with four cops, and then later in handcuffs on the way to a juvenile detention center?
If it was truly a bomb... things would've moved a bit faster... no?
Why does there have to be more?
Kid brings in home engineering project to show his technology teacher. English teacher sees it, confiscates it and reports him to the principle who calls the police.
Police come in and question him and apparently don't think "I was making a clock" is a good excuse to have a homemade clock. Took him down to juvenile detention centre and fingerprint him, threaten to charge him with making a "hoax bomb", despite him telling them and the school teachers that it was a clock.
I really fail to see how there could be any possible angle that could cast this in a good light for anybody but the kid.
I honestly hope that really was Obama who posted about it. And not somebody doing a gag. This kid is likely to have his dreams crushed and creativity stifled. The President stepping up and doing what he can to keep the kid's enthusiasm is a huge deal.
ON the surface... it's bad. Why fething wait a few hours later to question him in a room with four cops, and then later in handcuffs on the way to a juvenile detention center?
If it was truly a bomb... things would've moved a bit faster... no?
Depends who objected to it and what communications were going on. Clearly at least one teacher ignored it but then someone hit the panic button later on. When kids get into trouble for pop tart guns and other stupidity you don't know what's going on in the minds of some staff.
Maybe we should require a special licence and background checks for people who want to legally make clocks just in case he's a nutter who wants to attach it to a bomb and kill people.
"Common sense", right?
Think of all those children that could have been hurt!
What happened to this child was a disgrace, but President Obama's response was wonderful. Hopefully a trip to the White House will help mitigate this negative experience somewhat for poor Ahmed. A trip to a NASA site might even be better.
This kind of gak is what drives young people towards extremism. The police and school administrators should feel ashamed of how they handled this matter, if not for what they did to Ahmed then for the great propaganda opportunities they have given to the likes of ISIS and their ilk who will use this as another example of Western persecution of Muslims.
Alex C wrote: Maybe we should require a special licence and background checks for people who want to legally make clocks just in case he's a nutter who wants to attach it to a bomb and kill people.
When clocks are outlawed, only outlaws will have clocks.
Also, I'm not an EOD specialist but in my lay opinion most effective bombs do not require AC power as shown in that picture. Certainly, it's a tactical challenge for if you want to blow up something more than 4 feet from an electrical outlet.
Alex C wrote: Maybe we should require a special licence and background checks for people who want to legally make clocks just in case he's a nutter who wants to attach it to a bomb and kill people.
When clocks are outlawed, only outlaws will have clocks.
Also, I'm not an EOD specialist but in my lay opinion most effective bombs do not require AC power as shown in that picture.
Generally they have something that actually, you know, explodes, too.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: What happened to this child was a disgrace, but President Obama's response was wonderful. Hopefully a trip to the White House will help mitigate this negative experience somewhat for poor Ahmed. A trip to a NASA site might even be better.
A JPL engineer has offered to let Ahmed come in and get some time with a prototype Mars Rover, so there's that.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: What happened to this child was a disgrace, but President Obama's response was wonderful. Hopefully a trip to the White House will help mitigate this negative experience somewhat for poor Ahmed. A trip to a NASA site might even be better.
A JPL engineer has offered to let Ahmed come in and get some time with a prototype Mars Rover, so there's that.
I think the Zuck invited him to Facebook too. For all the horribleness he went through, the kid will see some once in a lifetime opportunities out of this.
The engineering teacher really should have done something in this instance. Pretty sad that he/she didn't. There's some serious ball dropping by this teacher going on.
Can't help but wonder, like Ouze, if his name had been Mike Smith or it hadn't been Texas if we'd have even seen an issue.
The tweet from Obama is a bit silly IMO. Kid goes to a school where they have an engineering class. Clearly they have a vested interested in promoting science to their students.
@OP - You should make an attempt to find a version of this article that isn't offering it's own editorial like VOX is. The Dallas Morning News would have been a good start.
@OP - You should make an attempt to find a version of this article that isn't offering it's own editorial like VOX is. The Dallas Morning News would have been a good start.
Editorial: Overreaction in clock-bomb mix-up has chilling effect
A studious-looking high school freshman wearing a NASA T-shirt was led from his Irving school in handcuffs Tuesday in what appears to be an overreaction to an electronics project he wanted to show his engineering teacher. What makes this episode particularly troublesome is the possibility that 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed was more a target of suspicion because he is Muslim.
Keeping students safe is, of course, paramount for all teachers and administrators, and and a sense of caution often entails making precarious judgment calls. That’s particularly challenging in the moment. But the school needs to be a safe learning environment for all students. That was not afforded to Ahmed. Did Irving school and police officials place undue weight on Mohamed’s ethnicity and religion, assuming terrorist motivations?
The atmosphere in Irving makes it ripe for such controversy. Mayor Beth Van Duyne drew national attention this year with a months-long campaign asserting that Muslims were trying to impose Shariah law on U.S. courts.
Americans’ concerns also are heightened because of the turmoil in Iraq and Syria over the spreading dominance of radical Islamic State militants. Refugees are flooding into Europe. Many non-Muslims worry that radical infiltrators could make their way to America. So everyone’s on guard, especially after last week’s anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.
Against that backdrop, Ahmed spent his evening Sunday working on an electronics project consisting of a circuit board, wires and a digital panel that displayed the time of day, all tucked into a pencil box.
A homemade clock, that’s all, Mohamed said. It looks like a bomb, three of his teachers responded. Police led him away in handcuffs, in full view of fellow Macarthur High School students.
Mohamed later said police interrogated him without allowing him to phone his parents, and the school principal wanted him to sign a written statement. A police spokesman suggested Mohamed was uncooperative.
Ultimately, Mohamed was released without charges. He received a three-day suspension, even though the school district insists that the item posed no threat.
Our bigger concern is the message this sends to inquisitive students considering the very STEM fields — science, technology, engineering and mathematics — that employers are begging them to pursue.
Computer engineering and robotics are now the rage in high schools across America. Students proudly display their inventions at school fairs and competitions the way previous generations showed off spewing volcano models.
What a sad statement if, for Muslim kids, a shadow of suspicion signals that, for them, such options are out of bounds.
and something struck me as very wrong.
Mohamed later said police interrogated him without allowing him to phone his parents, and the school principal wanted him to sign a written statement. A police spokesman suggested Mohamed was uncooperative.
cincydooley wrote: The tweet from Obama is a bit silly IMO. Kid goes to a school where they have an engineering class. Clearly they have a vested interested in promoting science to their students.
I disagree. I think the tweet was needed. It shows the child that not everyone in the country assumes his interest in technology is related to terrorism. As for the school, do they have a vested interest in promoting science? The kid ended up in cuffs after completing an extra curricular science project.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Have there been any outlets that have photos of said clock in question?
Many.
That...doesn't actually look like a clock.
That looks like something that could go boom.
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Ouze wrote: In America's defense, his name was Ahmed Mohammed. If he'd had an American name like Theodore, Timothy, or Eric, it clearly wouldn't have been a cause for an alarm.
Nah Tim will get you looked at within 300 miles of Oklahoma.
ON the surface... it's bad. Why fething wait a few hours later to question him in a room with four cops, and then later in handcuffs on the way to a juvenile detention center?
If it was truly a bomb... things would've moved a bit faster... no?
Depends who objected to it and what communications were going on. Clearly at least one teacher ignored it but then someone hit the panic button later on. When kids get into trouble for pop tart guns and other stupidity you don't know what's going on in the minds of some staff.
Exactly. We're through the looking glass into a zero tolerance world, even when that zero tolerance has nothing to do with a weapon you think it does.
Principal Frazzled sees thing: "Holy that looks like a bomb!" "Its a clock I made. Isn't it cool! I wanted to show it to Teacher X." "Teacher X did he show this to you?" "Yes its a clock. see this and this and this." "Disturbing but cool. We should do some sort of competition show, preferably around Halloween. Now get out of my office. This hip flask of rum is getting heavy."
Isn't this illegal?
I could see seven scenarios out of eight where it sure the hell is, depending on the actual fact pattern. You have the right to tell the PoPo to feth the hell off, you ain't talking to his pig ass.
I imagine if they'd, you know, release a picture of the front so you can clearly see the digital display rather than the internal circuit boards it would look more like a clock.
Just because something might look like a bomb, doesn't mean it can't be easily checked out and everyone go on their merry way.
-no established intent to harm or cause fear.
-established alibi
-said alibi item in no way involves a prohibited item
-mechanism can be easily checked (if it doesn't look less bomblike in person)
Not seeing an issue for the average nonliability terrorized person.
"They're all just STUPID."
-D. Trump's Hair.
It has wires and microchips and displays and stuff. And carried around by a scary Muslim no less. How else could it be anything but a bomb? Maybe if the kid filled in his bubbles on his standardized tests like a good American student and went home to play Minecraft he wouldn't be in this mess.
shasolenzabi wrote: This is one of the many side effects of the post 9/11+Fox Fear mongering. Land the feeble, and home of the chicken
More land of the legal liability terrorized. This is an idiot who realized its better to make a scene than think and be "out of policy."
To be clear, I'm on the side that, even if it looked like a bomb at first glance, it could have been easily checked out in like five minutes. Then congrats on cool thinking for five minutes.Then some quality rum time for ten minutes...
They were following "policy." You can't get fired for following "policy." The PR is someone else's problem.
pretre wrote: The town has already been embarrassed by the POTUS:
Why hasn't he spoken out for other kids who have been busted for more ridiculous things at school?
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Ouze wrote: In America's defense, his name was Ahmed Mohammed. If he'd had an American name like Theodore, Timothy, or Eric, it clearly wouldn't have been a cause for an alarm.
I mean, to the many people who have no clue about electronics, it looks like a threatening bomb straight out of Hollywood. Turning it on doesn't help, because now you have a digital display with a time on, and that tells you that it's about to explode!
On the other hand, if more people could understand basic electronics, they would see that there are no explosive materials (except for capacitors), and it's a mains powered clock. I think this is a pretty silly case of limited understanding combined with a racial undercurrent, although your president is one hell of a guy!
WrentheFaceless wrote: Sadly if the kid's name was Joe Smith, they wouldnt have batted an eye, or probably given him some extra credit for the class
Plenty of white kids have gotten in trouble at school and suspended or charged for stupider stuff.
The big problem with this one though, is the child was punished for showing an actual, outside of school interest in a subject, not just doing some random thing.
That's a different kind of stupid to a kid getting in trouble for throwing a stone pretending it was a grenade or playing with a poptart gun or whatever.
It's akin to a kid getting detention for reading ahead of the class so they're prepared for the lesson ahead of time.
That's a different kind of stupid to a kid getting in trouble for throwing a stone pretending it was a grenade or playing with a poptart gun or whatever.
Kids getting suspended for taking a bite out of a poptart and playing with it still ranks as completely fething stupid.
That's a different kind of stupid to a kid getting in trouble for throwing a stone pretending it was a grenade or playing with a poptart gun or whatever.
Kids getting suspended for taking a bite out of a poptart and playing with it still ranks as completely fething stupid.
Maybe a different kind, sure, but no less stupid.
Agreed. However it might be a less damaging kind of stupid, from an educational standpoint.
Being told off for playing with your poptart gun might put you off poptarts or playing with your food but is less likely to dampen your enthusiasm to education as a whole when compared to being told off and interrogated when you tried to show off your pet science project in order to show your enthusiasm for the subject.
That's a different kind of stupid to a kid getting in trouble for throwing a stone pretending it was a grenade or playing with a poptart gun or whatever.
Kids getting suspended for taking a bite out of a poptart and playing with it still ranks as completely fething stupid.
Maybe a different kind, sure, but no less stupid.
Agreed. However it might be a less damaging kind of stupid, from an educational standpoint.
Being told off for playing with your poptart gun might put you off poptarts or playing with your food but is less likely to dampen your enthusiasm to education as a whole when compared to being told off and interrogated when you tried to show off your pet science project in order to show your enthusiasm for the subject.
The kid was suspended, not just told off, but guns and white people are definitely not something obama, who sends multiple reps to muggers funerals, is big on.
That's a different kind of stupid to a kid getting in trouble for throwing a stone pretending it was a grenade or playing with a poptart gun or whatever.
Kids getting suspended for taking a bite out of a poptart and playing with it still ranks as completely fething stupid.
Maybe a different kind, sure, but no less stupid.
Agreed. However it might be a less damaging kind of stupid, from an educational standpoint.
Being told off for playing with your poptart gun might put you off poptarts or playing with your food but is less likely to dampen your enthusiasm to education as a whole when compared to being told off and interrogated when you tried to show off your pet science project in order to show your enthusiasm for the subject.
"Being told off" =/= suspended. Unless its slang for something different for foreigners.
Suspension is a complete removal from the educational environment,placing them into the care of their parents/guardians for however long the school chooses. This can place incredible pressure on a family, particularly if all parties usually work while the child is suspended. So yes, it can dampen ones enthusiasm to education as a whole.
And I say that as someone who was suspended once in middle school and again in high school.
So has the school/ police department apologized, or are they letting this PR fiasco play out? Ironic if this actually pisses off people enough to throwing a fit over this given that that's what the school was paranoid of in the first place. =P
Speaks of people to think that a Muslim kid with a ticking suitcase is a legitimate bomb threat rather than something innocuous or (which isn't the case here) a kid playing a joke about stereotypes. If he was sitting there with a cartoon style bomb on his desk would the local police have still been called in over this I wonder?
"Being told off" =/= suspended. Unless its slang for something different for foreigners.
Suspension is a complete removal from the educational environment,placing them into the care of their parents/guardians for however long the school chooses. This can place incredible pressure on a family, particularly if all parties usually work while the child is suspended. So yes, it can dampen ones enthusiasm to education as a whole.
And I say that as someone who was suspended once in middle school and again in high school.
He was suspended here, too.
So whilst the child being suspended for playing with a poptart gun is ridiculous, schools are not generally meant to encourage you to play with your food. They are, however, meant to encourage you to take an active interest in your learning and support you with that.
So you can apply the exact same punishment in both cases but it will be worse in the latter as the school is going directly against what it is meant to do.
Wyrmalla wrote: Speaks of people to think that a Muslim kid with a ticking suitcase
Airport Security Officer from Fight Club wrote:Narrator:
Was it ticking?
Airport Security Officer:
Actually throwers don't worry about ticking 'cause modern bombs don't tick.
Narrator:
Sorry, throwers?
Airport Security Officer:
Baggage handlers. But, when a suitcase vibrates, then the throwers gotta call the police.
Narrator:
My suitcase was vibrating?
Airport Security Officer:
Nine times out of ten it's an electric razor, but every once in a while...
Airport Security Officer:
it's a dildo. Of course it's company policy never to, imply ownership in the event of a dildo... always use the indefinite article a dildo, never your dildo.
"Being told off" =/= suspended. Unless its slang for something different for foreigners.
Suspension is a complete removal from the educational environment,placing them into the care of their parents/guardians for however long the school chooses. This can place incredible pressure on a family, particularly if all parties usually work while the child is suspended. So yes, it can dampen ones enthusiasm to education as a whole.
And I say that as someone who was suspended once in middle school and again in high school.
He was suspended here, too.
So whilst the child being suspended for playing with a poptart gun is ridiculous, schools are not generally meant to encourage you to play with your food. They are, however, meant to encourage you to take an active interest in your learning and support you with that.
So you can apply the exact same punishment in both cases but it will be worse in the latter as the school is going directly against what it is meant to do.
They are also meant to protect the children under their watch, so the English teacher, who thought the item was a bomb, was doing what she felt she was meant to do. The zero tolerance policies on guns in schools, there to protect children, is what the 7 year child was suspended for, not playing with his food.
Relapse wrote: The kid was suspended, not just told off, but guns and white people are definitely not something obama, who sends multiple reps to muggers funerals, is big on.
Obama "doesn't care" about all the poor white people? Are your feelings hurt? If so, I need you to fill out this form:
Spoiler:
Jesus fething Christ, how am I not surprised that less than two pages in, the usual suspects are already race-baiting? Some how this thread about something so incredibly stupid got even dumber.
"Being told off" =/= suspended. Unless its slang for something different for foreigners.
Suspension is a complete removal from the educational environment,placing them into the care of their parents/guardians for however long the school chooses. This can place incredible pressure on a family, particularly if all parties usually work while the child is suspended. So yes, it can dampen ones enthusiasm to education as a whole.
And I say that as someone who was suspended once in middle school and again in high school.
He was suspended here, too.
So whilst the child being suspended for playing with a poptart gun is ridiculous, schools are not generally meant to encourage you to play with your food. They are, however, meant to encourage you to take an active interest in your learning and support you with that.
So you can apply the exact same punishment in both cases but it will be worse in the latter as the school is going directly against what it is meant to do.
They are also meant to protect the children under their watch, so the English teacher, who thought the item was a bomb, was doing what she felt she was meant to do. The zero tolerance policies on guns in schools, there to protect children, is what the 7 year child was suspended for, not playing with his food.
Yes, the 38 caliber Pop Tart has been instrumental in many fatalities. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I understand the zero tolence policy for guns, but not food eaten into particular shapes.
Relapse wrote: The kid was suspended, not just told off, but guns and white people are definitely not something obama, who sends multiple reps to muggers funerals, is big on.
Obama "doesn't care" about all the poor white people? Are your feelings hurt? If so, I need you to fill out this form:
Spoiler:
Jesus fething Christ, how am I not surprised that less than two pages in, the usual suspects are already race-baiting? Some how this thread about something so incredibly stupid got even dumber.
Not race baiting, just stating it as I see it with this clown who sends delegations to the funerals of thieves and bullies, talks about what a scandal it is that they get killed and dog piles cops while remaining silent on the spate of cop killings. He's a race baiting divider and I'll be happy the day he's out of the White House.
Yes, the 38 caliber Pop Tart has been instrumental in many fatalities.
I lost quite a few buddies in the 2nd Great Food War of 1999. I almost lost an eye to an Orange Drink container thrown like a grenade. Its no laughing matter.
Yes, the 38 caliber Pop Tart has been instrumental in many fatalities.
I lost quite a few buddies in the 2nd Great Food War of 1999. I almost lost an eye to an Orange Drink container thrown like a grenade. Its no laughing matter.
You weren't there man. You weren't there.
I did my bit. I worked in the great toast drive that procured 700 slices from my town alone. I might not have been on the front lines, or even in the food services, but I was keeping you supplied with the weapons you needed.
I've... seen things... you people wouldn't believe. Milk cartons on fire off the shoulder of 3rd-hour English; I watched Cheez-beams glitter in the dark near the Admin Parking Gate... All those... moments... will be lost, in time, like tears... in... rain. Time... to die.
Psienesis wrote: I've... seen things... you people wouldn't believe. Milk cartons on fire off the shoulder of 3rd-hour English; I watched Cheez-beams glitter in the dark near the Admin Parking Gate... All those... moments... will be lost, in time, like tears... in... rain. Time... to die.
It was the fault of those bastards higher up the food chain that our veterans from these times aren't getting even crumbs.
Psienesis wrote: I've... seen things... you people wouldn't believe. Milk cartons on fire off the shoulder of 3rd-hour English; I watched Cheez-beams glitter in the dark near the Admin Parking Gate... All those... moments... will be lost, in time, like tears... in... rain. Time... to die.
whembly wrote: Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?
People, probably.
Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.
whembly wrote: Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?
People, probably.
Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.
I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...
whembly wrote: Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?
People, probably.
Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.
I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...
Yeah, that's definitely plausible. Unfortunately, my little brother just graduated high school a year ago, so I can't send him into class with the homemade clock I've been working on prior to this to test out the race factor, but knowing the mouth-breathing hillbillies who administrate that godforsaken hellhole, they'd probably just give it the shotgun treatment.
Hey... you got kids right Whembly? Want to borrow a clock for an experiment?
whembly wrote: Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?
People, probably.
Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.
I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...
It doesn't look like a clock, but it sure as Hell doesn't look like a bomb. Three circuit boards and a wall plug?
I'm just glad that this has turned out positively in the end for the kid, and will hopefully raise some interesting discussions.
It doesn't look like something that goes boom to anyone with a working brain, unless you fall for that bs picture. Look at the size of the plug next to it. That whole thing is the size of a pencil case.
Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
I think the full question is: is it normal for American police to have a kid pulled out of class, interrogated without their parents knowledge or a lawyer present whilst the school principal tells the kid to sign a statement and when the kid rightfully refuses to sign said statement they take him away in handcuffs despite him having done absolutely nothing wrong?
I think we had that scared straight program way back when to keep kids from da drugs and stuff. but this is probably a case of the police investigators just going way beyond what he should of been doing
also the principle trying to weasel in a waiver :/
I can't believe that these kind of people are actually teachers. They, along with the teachers involved with the pop tart "gun" situation, are an embarrassment to the profession.
Hordini wrote: I can't believe that these kind of people are actually teachers. They, along with the teachers involved with the pop tart "gun" situation, are an embarrassment to the profession.
But that Pop Tart could have gone off anytime, causing cardboard flavored fruit to go flying everywhere!
Guys it most definitely a bomb.
The kid obviously brought it to school to get the actual explosives from a supply and assemble it there.
The guy with the actual explode-y stuff is still their, learning! Quick, scour the school!
The timer counting up is just to fool you into a false sense of security.
Obviously guys, really this is actually the case!!1!!one!
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
I think the full question is: is it normal for American police to have a kid pulled out of class, interrogated without their parents knowledge or a lawyer present whilst the school principal tells the kid to sign a statement and when the kid rightfully refuses to sign said statement they take him away in handcuffs despite him having done absolutely nothing wrong?
When some kid in my middle school made a bunch of bomb threats - way back in the late nineties - I was pulled out of class, interrogated by three police officers- basically they insisted that they "knew I did it" and tried to get me to confess for about 30 minutes before they deigned to even call my parents. I didn't get handcuffed or anything, but I assume that this is just logical progression in a post 9-11 world.
This kind of incident happened to me precisely. I built a radio in a cigar box during 8th grade (this was pre-9/11), to model after something used by the french resistance.
It got found by a different teacher during homeroom, and a bomb scare got called. I had to show up to the principal's office and talked to the local police officer.
I didn't get suspended, but this sort of thing is really not new. Before radical religious terrorists, the fear was of colombine-esque deranged kids. His name being of middle eastern origin does not help at all. Still, glad to hear POTUS reached out like that. And despite my incident, I became an Engineer anyway
I think in some cases the school is considered the parent, I may be wrong though. I am sure the aclu will step in fairly soon if his civil rights were violated.
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
Yes, once the decision is made to arrest someone, it's normal procedure to handcuff them even if it looks unnecessary. The chief concern is officer safety and yes I feel ridiculous even saying that considering the "suspect".
whembly wrote: Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?
People, probably.
Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.
I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...
Exactly. Thanks to lawsuits and bureaucracies taking over, "following policy" means nothing bad can happen to you, EVER. Its only when you use common sense (ie not against policy) that bad things can happen to you.
whembly wrote: Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?
People, probably.
Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.
I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...
Yeah, that's definitely plausible. Unfortunately, my little brother just graduated high school a year ago, so I can't send him into class with the homemade clock I've been working on prior to this to test out the race factor, but knowing the mouth-breathing hillbillies who administrate that godforsaken hellhole, they'd probably just give it the shotgun treatment.
Hey... you got kids right Whembly? Want to borrow a clock for an experiment?
Spoiler:
There's your problem. (er the clock) Put in in a pink case with little frilly flowers and no one will say its a bomb. Presentation boys presentation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
daedalus wrote: Actually, now I just want to mount a pistol grip, detachable magazine, and a folding stock onto a clock now.
So you want the Glock briefcase pistol. (yes they really have a pistol like that)
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
I think the full question is: is it normal for American police to have a kid pulled out of class, interrogated without their parents knowledge or a lawyer present whilst the school principal tells the kid to sign a statement and when the kid rightfully refuses to sign said statement they take him away in handcuffs despite him having done absolutely nothing wrong?
And thats where the lawsuits start, and are later settled by the school and potentially the PoPo.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hordini wrote: I can't believe that these kind of people are actually teachers. They, along with the teachers involved with the pop tart "gun" situation, are an embarrassment to the profession.
Hey they are following policy. You have to report anything that could be a weapon, threatening, or potentially look like a weapon. "Its a tweenkie" is no excuse!
Note-no emoticons, I'm deadly serious.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mmm...I just noticed the plug you guys were discussing. Yea that makes it even more ridiculous.
Yea, the WAPO article clearly articulatyes the "we followed policy so we're free hahahaha" mentality:
School officials, however, insist that their staff and police acted appropriately in investigating the device as a potential threat.
“The information that has been made public to this point has been very unbalanced,” Lesley Weaver, a spokeswoman for Irving Independent School District, said at a Wednesday news conference. “We always ask our students and staff to immediately report if they observe any suspicious items or if they observe any suspicious behavior.
“We will always take necessary precautions to protect our students and keep our school community as safe as possible. That is our priority.”
Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed will not be charged with any wrongdoing and that the case has been closed.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd told reporters Wednesday.
And right here is where they violated violated the Constitution of the US "When he tried to call his father, Mohamed said he was told he couldn’t speak to his parents until after the interrogation was over. They asked if he had plastic explosives." Courts have found that "requesting parents" to be in line with requesting counsel.
So what would be the ramifications for those who were involved in this? I understand a suit is likely inevitable but, given the national attention, would this cause some of the officers and teachers to lose their jobs?
Humble Guardsman wrote: So what would be the ramifications for those who were involved in this? I understand a suit is likely inevitable but, given the national attention, would this cause some of the officers and teachers to lose their jobs?
Absolutely nothing but lawsuits and settlements will happen.
1. The school was following policy to report "suspicious items."
(not seeing why the principal permitted the police to interrogate a student like that, nor the suspension, nor trying to get the student to sign "something")
2. The police are now saying they were not told he took it to another teacher (that sounds like a lie) and that it was an innocent bomb hoax so their "case is closed" thats CYA and nothing will happen to them.
If stuff actually happened to government employees for their actions, this sort of "stuff" wouldn't happen.
Sarouan wrote: Hmm. I don't think it's a matter of policies. It's more about ignorance and lack of common sense.
Oh, it happened in Texas? I see. At least, they didn't shoot him.
you act like it has something to do with the state. This is just one of many incidents over the years. I blame Belgium. Also I will note there have been islamic terrorist attacks in Texas. The Fort hood shooting, and the attempted mass shoot killing at the comic/free speech event.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrDwhitey wrote: So that they didn't do that would seemingly indicate they didn't really think it was anything at all?
indeed. From WAPO their argument later was that they didn't think it was a bomb, but either a hoax or a bomb part (aka detonator/timer). it still doesn't jive though. They are in the greater DFW area so they could hav e pulled in actual bomb experts easily and quickly.
Kid's suspended for 3 days (STILL). No article seems to say for what? Yea, I'd bet the lawsuit hits by Monday. This kid just got his college tuition to MIT paid.
(thinking about timelines, my boy could be one of the professors...)
It seems to me one of those incidents where a series of low quality decisions was taken by various people who should have handled things better so that gradually it escalated to the point of being a pretty serious mistake by the authorities.
It is inevitable that such incidents will sometimes happen, due to human fallibility, but it is bad that the situation is being compounded by the boy remaining on suspension when he doesn't seem to have done anything wrong.
As far as the appearance of the "bomb" is concerned, any piece of prototype electronics assembly looks like a pile of mysterious components and wires if you are not technical. If it had been wired into a block of plasticine or Play Doh the cause for alarm would be more understandable. Why did they not get the science teacher who had seen it earlier to come and look at it? Just one of those little mysteries that arise in this kind of case.
I'd bet good money they didn't because the admin called the PoPo as soon as the English teacher reported it. probably because thats the rules.
EDIT: called it! Per the Dallas paper
They are often told that if anything suspicious happens, “they are to immediately contact administration who will likely immediately contact the police department after that unless they have a school marshal on campus who is trained on what to do when a student brings something that is perceived to be a weapon to school.”
This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
Yes, once the decision is made to arrest someone, it's normal procedure to handcuff them even if it looks unnecessary. The chief concern is officer safety and yes I feel ridiculous even saying that considering the "suspect".
Yes, that's the procedure for arresting someone.
That is not the procedure for questioning someone in a setting that is not a station and when the "suspect" has not been Mirandaized, or in the case of a friggin' 14 year old kid has not been allowed to contact his parents(since he's a minor).
Supposedly the bomb squad was called in to investigate this thing. If they couldn't tell it was a clock instead of a bomb, they should be fired immediately.
That coupled with the principal trying to make Ahmed sign a statement screams that these people knew what they were doing was horrendously wrong and they wanted to make him admit to something before his parents or an attorney talked to him.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?
Yes, once the decision is made to arrest someone, it's normal procedure to handcuff them even if it looks unnecessary. The chief concern is officer safety and yes I feel ridiculous even saying that considering the "suspect".
Yes, that's the procedure for arresting someone.
That is not the procedure for questioning someone in a setting that is not a station and when the "suspect" has not been Mirandaized, or in the case of a friggin' 14 year old kid has not been allowed to contact his parents(since he's a minor).
Supposedly the bomb squad was called in to investigate this thing. If they couldn't tell it was a clock instead of a bomb, they should be fired immediately.
That coupled with the principal trying to make Ahmed sign a statement screams that these people knew what they were doing was horrendously wrong and they wanted to make him admit to something before his parents or an attorney talked to him.
But even if they did get him to agree to sign something, as soon as this story broke or his parents got involved they'd get dragged to court and that statement wouldn't be worth the paper it's written as it would have been acquired illegally.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
However, in this case, profiling may have definitely played a part.
The police officer, who had never met Ahmed before did say "Yup. That’s who I thought it was." when Ahmed was brought into the room. Short of Ahmed having a criminal record, which there is zero evidence of, what else would lead the police officer to say that?
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
However, in this case, profiling may have definitely played a part.
The police officer, who had never met Ahmed before did say "Yup. That’s who I thought it was." when Ahmed was brought into the room. Short of Ahmed having a criminal record, which there is zero evidence of, what else would lead the police officer to say that?
And thats when he should have shut up and started screaming for a lawyer. Lesson learned. I shall have to re-advise GC to do so. Its been a few months. Correct me if I am wrong but the open case-thats the guts right, with the actual readout on the outside? (I thought I saw one version showing the readout). Of course its going to look more twitchy if you open it up.
I can't help but think that this could have been avoided if the engineering teacher's first thought was "cool, hey class anyone make their own clock yet? Check this out." and showed the class. on the other hand, he might have and it might not have mattered...because...reasons.
I'm with Kilkrazy in his question about the engineering teacher the clock was originally shown to. Where was he in all of this and why did no one speak with him about the clock?
Relapse wrote: I'm with Kilkrazy in his question about the engineering teacher the clock was originally shown to. Where was he in all of this and why did no one speak with him about the clock?
i think we both know no one talked to him. The lack of competence by everyone involved would be shocking if unexpected.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
However, in this case, profiling may have definitely played a part.
The police officer, who had never met Ahmed before did say "Yup. That’s who I thought it was." when Ahmed was brought into the room. Short of Ahmed having a criminal record, which there is zero evidence of, what else would lead the police officer to say that?
And thats when he should have shut up and started screaming for a lawyer. Lesson learned. I shall have to re-advise GC to do so. Its been a few months. Correct me if I am wrong but the open case-thats the guts right, with the actual readout on the outside? (I thought I saw one version showing the readout). Of course its going to look more twitchy if you open it up.
I can't help but think that this could have been avoided if the engineering teacher's first thought was "cool, hey class anyone make their own clock yet? Check this out." and showed the class. on the other hand, he might have and it might not have mattered...because...reasons.
Ahmed talks about what the clock was made of in a youtube video about this whole thing. I think it's in one of the articles I put on the OP. There was a digital display on the outside of the pencil case which he used to house the workings. You can see the back of it in the open case pictures, it's the red rectangle.
Found a picture where some engineer-y people have labelled the parts
Relapse wrote: I'm with Kilkrazy in his question about the engineering teacher the clock was originally shown to. Where was he in all of this and why did no one speak with him about the clock?
i think we both know no one talked to him. The lack of competence by everyone involved would be shocking if unexpected.
It would have been ironic if these two had ended up in the office with the cops at the same time, the kid busted by the cops for a clock, and the kid busted by the cops for wearing an NRA shirt at school. Proof that zero tolerance stupidity cuts through racial lines:
Just beneath the transformer, that looks like duct tape. Duct tape -> Transformer -> Mains Supply: That's the real reason to call the cops, don't plug anything taped together into the mains!
George Takei noticed the story and posted this to facebook:
You may have heard the story of Ahmed Mohamed, the 14-year old Dallas student who was arrested after bringing a home-made clock in to show his teacher. They believed it was a bomb, simply because Ahmed is a Muslim. Since I don't know how to reach this young man directly, I thought I'd simply post a letter to him here.
Dear Ahmed,
I’ve never met you, and it’s quite possible you’ve never heard of me, but my name is George Takei. I am many decades older than you, but your story and your experience—when you were arrested at your school simply because you brought in a clock for your teacher--struck a chord with me. You see, when I was a bit younger than you, I was also viewed by others as “the enemy” and treated as such, simply because I happened to look like the people who had attacked America.
Like you, I was just a kid trying to find his place in the world. I loved my country, and I looked forward to all the opportunities and challenges ahead. But my childhood was interrupted by fear and ignorance. When the authorities came for you because they believed you had built a bomb, I was reminded, in a way, of when the army came for us. They ordered us out of our home believing we were suspicious people because of our names, our faces, our ancestry. I spent my childhood in an internment camp because of that fear and ignorance.
But I want you to know, while America may have done a terrible thing to me and my family, and to 120,000 other Japanese Americans, I have great hope for this country, and I believe we do learn. There was a Japanese word we often said in the camps: Gaman. It means to keep on keeping on, with dignity and fortitude. I think you understand this word already. While certain school officials and police officers may have shown you the worst side of our nation, I understand many others have since shown you the best side. I was touched to hear you say that we all have to be true to ourselves.
Ahmed, you are now part of the story of America, and many will learn from your fine example. I see great things ahead for you.
Ustrello wrote: I think in some cases the school is considered the parent, I may be wrong though. I am sure the aclu will step in fairly soon if his civil rights were violated.
Only in very specific circumstances and certainly not in a situation like this. Once he was being arrested, his parents should have been immediately notified and all questioning stopped before they and their lawyer arrived.
Ustrello wrote: I think in some cases the school is considered the parent, I may be wrong though. I am sure the aclu will step in fairly soon if his civil rights were violated.
Only in very specific circumstances and certainly not in a situation like this. Once he was being arrested, his parents should have been immediately notified and all questioning stopped before they and their lawyer arrived.
Ah okay thank you. I knew I was kinda right but had a feeling it didn't extend this far, but you never know.
I dropped in to say that a similar situation had happened to a close friend of mine in freshmen year. Our school has various academies, him being part of the IT academy. He was really techy and knew his way with machines and the like. One day apparently the police had come into one of his classrooms and just took him away, supposedly he had like some sort of metal rod or something in his bag. I think he was suspended for like 10 days........
As an aside, due to a comment about race earlier, He is half Korean half Chinese.
In regards to this Ahmed guy I am torn, but the situation was handled terribly no doubt about that
Dudecrap wrote: I dropped in to say that a similar situation had happened to a close friend of mine in freshmen year. Our school has various academies, him being part of the IT academy. He was really techy and knew his way with machines and the like. One day apparently the police had come into one of his classrooms and just took him away, supposedly he had like some sort of metal rod or something in his bag. I think he was suspended for like 10 days........
As an aside, due to a comment about race earlier, He is half Korean half Chinese.
In regards to this Ahmed guy I am torn, but the situation was handled terribly no doubt about that
The race thing is pretty iffy, since white kids have had similar experiences in having schools call police on them for equally stupid stuff, such as the story of the 8th grader got busted at school for wearing an NRA shirt.
Dudecrap wrote: I dropped in to say that a similar situation had happened to a close friend of mine in freshmen year. Our school has various academies, him being part of the IT academy. He was really techy and knew his way with machines and the like. One day apparently the police had come into one of his classrooms and just took him away, supposedly he had like some sort of metal rod or something in his bag. I think he was suspended for like 10 days........
As an aside, due to a comment about race earlier, He is half Korean half Chinese.
In regards to this Ahmed guy I am torn, but the situation was handled terribly no doubt about that
The race thing is pretty iffy, since white kids have had similar experiences in having schools call police on them for equally stupid stuff, such as the story of the 8th grader got busted at school for wearing an NRA shirt.
If we make NRA shirts illegal then only criminals will have NRA shirts!
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
The questioning and the treatment? yeah that was dumb. the acting on suspicion of it being a bomb... that was not dumb. this thing look much more dangerous than a poptart gun and poptart gun kid got suspended.
What is 100% racist is the reaction from the prez. Why does this kid who made something looking like a Hollywood bomb get a trip to the white house while poptart gun kid does not?
And if you don't believe it looks like a bomb, Replicate the thing and try to get threw airport security. good luck.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
The questioning and the treatment? yeah that was dumb. the acting on suspicion of it being a bomb... that was not dumb. this thing look much more dangerous than a poptart gun and poptart gun kid got suspended.
What is 100% racist is the reaction from the prez. Why does this kid who made something looking like a Hollywood bomb get a trip to the white house while poptart gun kid does not?
And if you don't believe it looks like a bomb, Replicate the thing and try to get threw airport security. good luck.
That was the same question I brought up. Why wasn't the shirt kid invited to the White House, also. He was arrested for equally stupid reasons.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
The questioning and the treatment? yeah that was dumb. the acting on suspicion of it being a bomb... that was not dumb. this thing look much more dangerous than a poptart gun and poptart gun kid got suspended.
What is 100% racist is the reaction from the prez. Why does this kid who made something looking like a Hollywood bomb get a trip to the white house while poptart gun kid does not?
And if you don't believe it looks like a bomb, Replicate the thing and try to get threw airport security. good luck.
That was the same question I brought up. Why wasn't the shirt kid invited to the White House, also. He was arrested for equally stupid reasons.
Isn't it obvious? it looks politically good for the bams
Dudecrap wrote: I dropped in to say that a similar situation had happened to a close friend of mine in freshmen year. Our school has various academies, him being part of the IT academy. He was really techy and knew his way with machines and the like. One day apparently the police had come into one of his classrooms and just took him away, supposedly he had like some sort of metal rod or something in his bag. I think he was suspended for like 10 days........
As an aside, due to a comment about race earlier, He is half Korean half Chinese.
In regards to this Ahmed guy I am torn, but the situation was handled terribly no doubt about that
The race thing is pretty iffy, since white kids have had similar experiences in having schools call police on them for equally stupid stuff, such as the story of the 8th grader got busted at school for wearing an NRA shirt.
If we make NRA shirts illegal then only criminals will have NRA shirts!
Lets just thank our lucky stars it wasnt pizza or a pop tart in the shape of a gun.
That was the same question I brought up. Why wasn't the shirt kid invited to the White House, also. He was arrested for equally stupid reasons.
Because rewarding a kid for taking an interest in their education, especially in the sciences, is better than rewarding a kid for wearing a t-shirt.
The kid was standing on a free speech issue when they started pressing him on it, since his shirt violated no school policies. Shouldn't getting arrested for standing on knowledge of rights be up there with taking an interest in education?
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
The questioning and the treatment? yeah that was dumb. the acting on suspicion of it being a bomb... that was not dumb. this thing look much more dangerous than a poptart gun and poptart gun kid got suspended.
What is 100% racist is the reaction from the prez. Why does this kid who made something looking like a Hollywood bomb get a trip to the white house while poptart gun kid does not?
And if you don't believe it looks like a bomb, Replicate the thing and try to get threw airport security. good luck.
But that works on the assumption that the pop-tart gun suspension should have had a leg to stand on. It's not justification for the next stupid act of 'justice' to come through the pipeline. So the clock looked like a snuke. Okay, investigate it and see that its really just a clock and not a bomb. Situation over. I'd say the president's response was political, i think racist though requires a fair bit more to make a case for.
That was the same question I brought up. Why wasn't the shirt kid invited to the White House, also. He was arrested for equally stupid reasons.
Because rewarding a kid for taking an interest in their education, especially in the sciences, is better than rewarding a kid for wearing a t-shirt.
The kid was standing on a free speech issue when they started pressing him on it, since his shirt violated no school policies. Shouldn't getting arrested for standing on knowledge of rights be up there with taking an interest in education?
Except free speech can be curtailed while on the grounds of a school.
You understand that, right? Your purpose at a school is to learn, not to make a Constitutional Rights issue out of you not getting to wear your flippin' NRA t-shirt.
Dudecrap wrote: I dropped in to say that a similar situation had happened to a close friend of mine in freshmen year. Our school has various academies, him being part of the IT academy. He was really techy and knew his way with machines and the like. One day apparently the police had come into one of his classrooms and just took him away, supposedly he had like some sort of metal rod or something in his bag. I think he was suspended for like 10 days........
As an aside, due to a comment about race earlier, He is half Korean half Chinese.
In regards to this Ahmed guy I am torn, but the situation was handled terribly no doubt about that
The race thing is pretty iffy, since white kids have had similar experiences in having schools call police on them for equally stupid stuff, such as the story of the 8th grader got busted at school for wearing an NRA shirt.
If we make NRA shirts illegal then only criminals will have NRA shirts!
Correct me if im wrong, but dont a few gun owners actually hate the NRA cause they are doing more to hurt gun rights?
Dudecrap wrote: I dropped in to say that a similar situation had happened to a close friend of mine in freshmen year. Our school has various academies, him being part of the IT academy. He was really techy and knew his way with machines and the like. One day apparently the police had come into one of his classrooms and just took him away, supposedly he had like some sort of metal rod or something in his bag. I think he was suspended for like 10 days........
As an aside, due to a comment about race earlier, He is half Korean half Chinese.
In regards to this Ahmed guy I am torn, but the situation was handled terribly no doubt about that
The race thing is pretty iffy, since white kids have had similar experiences in having schools call police on them for equally stupid stuff, such as the story of the 8th grader got busted at school for wearing an NRA shirt.
If we make NRA shirts illegal then only criminals will have NRA shirts!
Correct me if im wrong, but dont a few gun owners actually hate the NRA cause they are doing more to hurt gun rights?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't turn this into another gun thread!
That was the same question I brought up. Why wasn't the shirt kid invited to the White House, also. He was arrested for equally stupid reasons.
Because rewarding a kid for taking an interest in their education, especially in the sciences, is better than rewarding a kid for wearing a t-shirt.
The kid was standing on a free speech issue when they started pressing him on it, since his shirt violated no school policies. Shouldn't getting arrested for standing on knowledge of rights be up there with taking an interest in education?
Except free speech can be curtailed while on the grounds of a school.
You understand that, right? Your purpose at a school is to learn, not to make a Constitutional Rights issue out of you not getting to wear your flippin' NRA t-shirt.
Tactfully put, as always and your opinion would even be correct if you ignore the Supreme Court ruling in the Tinker case:
An interesting side note is that when he went back to school, he wore his shirt, and other teenagers throughout the county wore NRA shirts to school in solidarity with him.
That's a very, very side note, since he isn't the subject of this thread. Sure, make the comment in comparison that "well he also got suspended", people will disagree as to it's relevance and that's fine too. But let's not go down the rabbit hole of either other case more than superficially, else we'll end up in a gun thread and locked.
motyak wrote: That's a very, very side note, since he isn't the subject of this thread. Sure, make the comment in comparison that "well he also got suspended", people will disagree as to it's relevance and that's fine too. But let's not go down the rabbit hole of either other case more than superficially, else we'll end up in a gun thread and locked.
No need to be rude, I was simply basing it on my experience. As all people do. It's just always seemed to me to be one of those thing you aren't allowed to display in middle/high school, like drugs, curses, ect.
daedalus wrote: I like this thread more when it wasn't about guns.
Well, let's get back to that then.
That teacher is most certainly required to raise the alarm if there seems to be a dangerous object at school. We might think she was stupid but better safe than sorry when it concerns stuff you really have no experience with. I'm just a lowly security guard myself, walking around in facilites filled with machines worth hundreds of thousands or even millions of euros - if there's something suspicious I'm not making a judgement about a machine I'm not trained to operate, I call for help. Doubly so if there's any chance people could be in danger. So teacher did right, IMO.
And I can't fault the police for turning up - a teacher thought there could be a bomb and called them so it's their job to turn up. Imagine the stink if they'd just said "it's a kid, what would he know about bombs" and hung up.
The way the situation was handled wasn't exactly smooth though. The principal bringing in some waiver that a minor probably can't even legally sign? While the police are questioning their suspect without access to counsel or his parents? On the plus side the cops didn't go Jack Bauer on their suspect...
Spetulhu wrote: That teacher is most certainly required to raise the alarm if there seems to be a dangerous object at school. We might think she was stupid but better safe than sorry when it concerns stuff you really have no experience with. I'm just a lowly security guard myself, walking around in facilites filled with machines worth hundreds of thousands or even millions of euros - if there's something suspicious I'm not making a judgement about a machine I'm not trained to operate, I call for help. Doubly so if there's any chance people could be in danger. So teacher did right, IMO..
Sure, but that's pretty much where it stopped being done right. If they were presuming, in good faith, that it was a bomb - why didn't they evacuate the school? Why didn't they call a bomb squad? Why did they just put him in an office with it? Once the cops arrived, why did they transport this possible bomb in the car with him and them?
The problem with "an abundance of caution" defense is when you use it as a rationale for being an donkey-cave, without actually doing any of the cautious things.
Spetulhu wrote: That teacher is most certainly required to raise the alarm if there seems to be a dangerous object at school. We might think she was stupid but better safe than sorry when it concerns stuff you really have no experience with. I'm just a lowly security guard myself, walking around in facilites filled with machines worth hundreds of thousands or even millions of euros - if there's something suspicious I'm not making a judgement about a machine I'm not trained to operate, I call for help. Doubly so if there's any chance people could be in danger. So teacher did right, IMO..
Sure, but that's pretty much where it stopped being done right. If they were presuming, in good faith, that it was a bomb - why didn't they evacuate the school? Why didn't they call a bomb squad? Why did they just put him in an office with it? Once the cops arrived, why did they transport this possible bomb in the car with him and them?
The problem with "an abundance of caution" defense is when you use it as a rationale for being an donkey-cave, without actually doing any of the cautious things.
Agreed. If the english teacher and principal thought this was a real threat, this would have been handled differently. And the delay in contacting the parents is... suspect.
Did we ever hear anything from the technology teacher?
The kid was arrested for creating a hoax bomb. That there explains why the school wasn't evacuated, bomb squad wasn't brought in, etc. They knew it wasn't a threat, but thought it was a prank, so the kid was treated like someone who created a hoax bomb or called in a bomb threat.
motyak wrote: A hoax bomb that he didn't claim was a bomb...making that a pretty poorly orchestrated hoax.
Kid: "Hey here is my clock, it's a really cool clock isn't it? Can I get extra marks?"
Teacher: "My god it's a bomb!!"
Principal/Cops: "You're in trouble now"
Kid: "Damn, they saw right through my elaborate hoax."
Doesn't matter what he claimed. The school administrator called the police after being notified by one of her teachers that an unkown, unauthorized, crude, hidden electronics device went off during a class, causing enough of a disturbance for the teacher to halt the class and investigate the device. If the school administrator thought that the intent of the device going off was intended to cause alarm, despite the protestations of the student to the contrary, then assuming it was a bomb hoax is somewhat reasonable.
nels1031 wrote: For the record, I'm not arguing how this went down wasn't ridiculous. Just pointing out the possible reasoning behind how this escalated.
Considering that cell-phones are used to set off bombs, any teacher could call the cops on any random person with a cell phone for a fake bomb thread.
nels1031 wrote: For the record, I'm not arguing how this went down wasn't ridiculous. Just pointing out the possible reasoning behind how this escalated.
Considering that cell-phones are used to set off bombs, any teacher could call the cops on any random person with a cell phone for a fake bomb thread.
Ok? I guess.
Not sure what your point is. But canI play?
Considering that fingers are used to make bombs, any teacher could call the cops on any random person with fingers for a fake bomb threat.
nels1031 wrote: For the record, I'm not arguing how this went down wasn't ridiculous. Just pointing out the possible reasoning behind how this escalated.
Considering that cell-phones are used to set off bombs, any teacher could call the cops on any random person with a cell phone for a fake bomb thread.
Ok? I guess.
Not sure what your point is.
Just to show that arresting a kid for making a bomb thread, even though me didn't make a bomb thread, only because someone else mistook his clock for a bomb was bad logic because everything could be used as a bomb so everybody could randomly be arrested for making a thread for any random reason without ever making one.
Fingers don't make bombs, kids who use their fingers to play video games make bombs.
Certainly a breadboard project like the digital clock looks more like the action movie idea of a bomb fuse than a typical off-the-shelf phone or radio. However so does a bundle of sticks of plasticine from the art and design store cupboard. For that matter, any good school chemistry lab has the equipment and supplies to actually make explosives and poison gas.
In school people learn to build and show off stuff as part of education. One might hope that teachers are not so ignorant and fearful as to assume that anything they don't instantly understand is a probable rather than a possible threat that requires police attention.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
The questioning and the treatment? yeah that was dumb. the acting on suspicion of it being a bomb... that was not dumb. this thing look much more dangerous than a poptart gun and poptart gun kid got suspended.
What is 100% racist is the reaction from the prez. Why does this kid who made something looking like a Hollywood bomb get a trip to the white house while poptart gun kid does not?
And if you don't believe it looks like a bomb, Replicate the thing and try to get threw airport security. good luck.
Interesting points.
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angelofvengeance wrote: Texas: one of the few places you can be arrested for being an intelligent kid lol.
We built the stuff that went to the moon. We build stuff for pressures that would crush a Navy boomer. How about you? Oh it got a little quiet.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.
The questioning and the treatment? yeah that was dumb. the acting on suspicion of it being a bomb... that was not dumb. this thing look much more dangerous than a poptart gun and poptart gun kid got suspended.
What is 100% racist is the reaction from the prez. Why does this kid who made something looking like a Hollywood bomb get a trip to the white house while poptart gun kid does not?
And if you don't believe it looks like a bomb, Replicate the thing and try to get threw airport security. good luck.
I doubt it would have any problems. Stick a phone to a lump of plasticine and try getting it through airport security. However what airport security does has no relevance to what happens in a school. A box with wires in, that some kid had in the open, and was not worried about at all, and happily says "Its a clock I made" is really not a threat. If we have got to this point of fear then there is something seriously wrong.
Texas may have built it, but the UK invented most of the things that made those things possible.
Now you're just being silly.
Quite.
it was mostly the Germans.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To get back the topic, how many people think that building your own mains powered digital clock is a greater achievement than biting piece off a pop tart to make it look like the silhouette of a pistol?
Automatically Appended Next Post: To get back the topic, how many people think that building your own mains powered digital clock is a greater achievement than biting piece off a pop tart to make it look like the silhouette of a pistol?
But, these days an iPhone app is worth more in the classroom than a hand-built alarm clock.
If no-one made iPhones or their equivalent, there's no app to be built.
From what I've read of this incident, if it hadn't gone off in a lesson, and didn't look a vaguely suspicious, he'd have been fine.
I hope he takes up the offers of visits to the Faces that are siding with him.
Even tinkering in the basement or shed isn't any use to the kid, as once someone suspects he has a bomb-factory in there, off he goes for a week in the cells while they pick through the stacks or wire and breadboard he has gathered.
I've learnt my trade as computer techy by tinkering at home. Taking apart an Amiga floppy drive, after its head started drifting. Wiring up a network to get Doom, Diablo and Command & Conquer going for my mates. None of this was taught at school, as school doesn't (didn't) teach this stuff back in the late 80's.
Crimson Heretic wrote: This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.
"Tarnished"? Hah! I mean sure it was probably pretty crappy as it was happening, but now he's got the president and celebrities tweeting him and such. This kind of outcome is more like winning the lottery.
To get back the topic, how many people think that building your own mains powered digital clock is a greater achievement than biting piece off a pop tart to make it look like the silhouette of a pistol?
I do, though I've seen a shocking number of posts to social media sites asking why the pop tart kid was not invited to Facebook and the WH, as if they did not recognize a difference in achievement.
To get back the topic, how many people think that building your own mains powered digital clock is a greater achievement than biting piece off a pop tart to make it look like the silhouette of a pistol?
While it's certainly more artful than biting a pop tart into a gun, I'm unclear on how big an achievement it really is.
The degree of difficulty in making a clock like that for a kid nowadays is probably the same as when they used to have those crystal radio sets kids assembled back in the day.
While it's certainly more artful than biting a pop tart into a gun, I'm unclear on how big an achievement it really is.
Is what he did that tough? Even for a 9th grader?
I don't have a ton of knowledge/background.
I wish they'd release new pictures. More information about the clock is required to really judge how complex of a hack this was, and I'm genuinely interested in this.
Make: Magazine did a breakdown of the components they could identify in the picture. Sizewise, I'd estimate the case to be about 8" wide, based upon the AC connector in the photo. Surprisingly, no one seems willing to talk about the dimensions.
Looking at it, the "button board" looks to be about as wide as the lcd display, which leads me to believe they came from the same source object. Difficulty minimum.
I have mixed feelings about the "main board". It's clearly etched or printed with a circuit diagram on it, but it's difficult to guess in this picture if he etched it himself. So that's hard to say. Difficulty somewhere between minimum (if he just pulled it from the same place as the rest of it so far) and high enough it'd be something I'd be nervous about doing if he etched it himself.
The transformer looks commercially made, so I don't think he made that. Difficulty minimum.
However, the thing is, if any of those things came from different sources, and he didn't just remove the inside of a single clock and stick it all in a box, then the difficulty of getting it all to play well becomes significantly harder. I had that problem with the design of my VFD tube clock.
Another possibility is that it was one original clock, broken, and he fixed it. That would require some troubleshooting, soldering, and knowledge on how to operate a meter, at a minimum.
I mean, there's a lot of things here that could sway how hard it actually was that we're just not privy to at this point. I'm going to sidestep the question by saying that it SHOULDN'T be hard for a 9th grader to make something like this, but remembering most of my peers at 14, they probably wouldn't have been able to do this if you did give them all the working parts from a single clock, and nor would they have had the motivation to do so. Which I think is more important than how difficult the task actually was. He was motivated to do this, on his own. If he keeps that drive, that'll move him closer to doing genuinely impressive things as he expands his knowledge.
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Relapse wrote: The degree of difficulty in making a clock like that for a kid nowadays is probably the same as when they used to have those crystal radio sets kids assembled back in the day.
You can still get those, though you probably have to order them if you don't have a radio shack like store around. I got one a couple weeks ago (manufacturer Velleman Electronics) as an excuse to practice some soldering before i tried to tackle some surface mount ICs. Really that's child's play though compared to the build your own drone kits and crazy stuff like that kids have around nowadays. Man, to be 14 again.
While it's certainly more artful than biting a pop tart into a gun, I'm unclear on how big an achievement it really is.
Is what he did that tough? Even for a 9th grader?
I don't have a ton of knowledge/background.
I wish they'd release new pictures. More information about the clock is required to really judge how complex of a hack this was, and I'm genuinely interested in this.
The kid said in a video that he whipped it up in the sunday evening before school, basically as an exercise to show to his tech teacher that he had an interest (he had previously been part of an electronics club at middle school). So I don't think it was particularly tough for someone with a basic understanding of electronics (i.e. which pins to connect the power supply to, whether you need an AC or DC capacitor and which way round it should go etc.).
I read in a paper just now that he's apparently switching schools, which isn't really surprising. If I were his parents then I don't think I'd want him going to a school were the principal would take part in a potentially illegal interrogation.
While it's certainly more artful than biting a pop tart into a gun, I'm unclear on how big an achievement it really is.
Is what he did that tough? Even for a 9th grader?
I don't have a ton of knowledge/background.
I wish they'd release new pictures. More information about the clock is required to really judge how complex of a hack this was, and I'm genuinely interested in this.
The kid said in a video that he whipped it up in the sunday evening before school, basically as an exercise to show to his tech teacher that he had an interest (he had previously been part of an electronics club at middle school). So I don't think it was particularly tough for someone with a basic understanding of electronics (i.e. which pins to connect the power supply to, whether you need an AC or DC capacitor and which way round it should go etc.).
I read in a paper just now that he's apparently switching schools, which isn't really surprising. If I were his parents then I don't think I'd want him going to a school were the principal would take part in a potentially illegal interrogation.
Switching schools is also for the best when their lawyers sue the out of the school.
The kid said in a video that he whipped it up in the sunday evening before school, basically as an exercise to show to his tech teacher that he had an interest (he had previously been part of an electronics club at middle school). So I don't think it was particularly tough for someone with a basic understanding of electronics (i.e. which pins to connect the power supply to, whether you need an AC or DC capacitor and which way round it should go etc.).
Gotcha. I won't be watching the video so I wouldn't have seen that.
Just curious how much MIT needs to slow their roll, or if this kid is really the next big thing.
The kid said in a video that he whipped it up in the sunday evening before school, basically as an exercise to show to his tech teacher that he had an interest (he had previously been part of an electronics club at middle school). So I don't think it was particularly tough for someone with a basic understanding of electronics (i.e. which pins to connect the power supply to, whether you need an AC or DC capacitor and which way round it should go etc.).
Gotcha. I won't be watching the video so I wouldn't have seen that.
Just curious how much MIT needs to slow their roll, or if this kid is really the next big thing.
If he was smart enough to be the next big thing he would have powered his clock with a potato like the ones we built back in middle school and avoided the entire bomb scare fiasco in the first place.
The kid said in a video that he whipped it up in the sunday evening before school, basically as an exercise to show to his tech teacher that he had an interest (he had previously been part of an electronics club at middle school). So I don't think it was particularly tough for someone with a basic understanding of electronics (i.e. which pins to connect the power supply to, whether you need an AC or DC capacitor and which way round it should go etc.).
Gotcha. I won't be watching the video so I wouldn't have seen that.
Just curious how much MIT needs to slow their roll, or if this kid is really the next big thing.
If he was smart enough to be the next big thing he would have powered his clock with a potato like the ones we built back in middle school and avoided the entire bomb scare fiasco in the first place.
If he had filled in side of his clock with baggies of mash potatos with wires sticking out then the bomb squad would of probably came
The kid said in a video that he whipped it up in the sunday evening before school, basically as an exercise to show to his tech teacher that he had an interest (he had previously been part of an electronics club at middle school). So I don't think it was particularly tough for someone with a basic understanding of electronics (i.e. which pins to connect the power supply to, whether you need an AC or DC capacitor and which way round it should go etc.).
Gotcha. I won't be watching the video so I wouldn't have seen that.
Just curious how much MIT needs to slow their roll, or if this kid is really the next big thing.
MIT doesn't really need to "slow their role", as the statement they made was less about the kid's individual aptitude and more about the kind of attitude he had.
I can't speak for you, but the class I graduated in was rare and far between in regards to kids who would use some of their free time to do something optional for school.
I was one of those kids who would not do anything that cut into my free time and I kind of regret that now.
I played with electronics in my early teens.
I made an electronic timer (from a kit) with a 3 digit display that activated a siren in the kit, but the output signal could be used to do a lot of stuff. Also remote operating electrical ignitors was also pretty easy (r/c controller, receiver and bits).
I also used to blow **** up as a hobby (Chemistry in yr7). Science is awesome.
I dread to think how often I'd have been suspended these days.
I did lots of electronics at that age. Most of it made the magic blue smoke escape.
I also did lots of chemistry. Most of it burnt or produced lots of heat.
What I didn't do was mess around with AC power. That's the worrying thing about this, that rather than using batteries this parants kids let him mess with mains electricity.
This is a very loaded story.
The kid in the linked article built a 'fusion reactor'.
You can find out how to do this on YouTube
cold fusion is fairly mundane science and has nothing to do with fusion as we know it, which requires millions of degrees but is a chemical process.
Now there was a kid who made a [i]real[/i ]nuclear reactor at home, as in a fissile reactor. The reaction from government authorities was rather different and he was not in ay way encouraged to continue.
As for the clock, yes it doesn't look more like a bomb than a clock, but that does not excuse the teacher for not chasing up the students story with his engineering project teacher.
So0me people have yet to learn the difference between security vigilance and scaremongering.
Are there any other pictures of the clock, yet? Besides the one that was set to make it look as bomb-like as possible, without any real sense of scale to let you know it was a pencil case instead of something larger? I know his father was suppose to go to the Irving PD yesterday to try to reclaim it, but I haven't heard any update on that since.
Steve steveson wrote: I did lots of electronics at that age. Most of it made the magic blue smoke escape.
I also did lots of chemistry. Most of it burnt or produced lots of heat.
What I didn't do was mess around with AC power. That's the worrying thing about this, that rather than using batteries this parants kids let him mess with mains electricity.
Looking at it, I'm not sure whether the clock is connected to the mains, or that cable just happens to be lying there. You can clearly see a 9V battery connector attached to the electronics, which makes more sense, and would be completely redundant if it were mains powered.
Steve steveson wrote: I did lots of electronics at that age. Most of it made the magic blue smoke escape.
I also did lots of chemistry. Most of it burnt or produced lots of heat.
What I didn't do was mess around with AC power. That's the worrying thing about this, that rather than using batteries this parants kids let him mess with mains electricity.
Looking at it, I'm not sure whether the clock is connected to the mains, or that cable just happens to be lying there. You can clearly see a 9V battery connector attached to the electronics, which makes more sense, and would be completely redundant if it were mains powered.
A lot of alarm clocks in the US have 9V backups to keep the clock running even if the power grid fails due to storms or a squirrel in the transformer.
Could be that he kept that from the original clock. Hard to say for sure until we get more pictures.
But the teenager encouraged other people his age to keep inventing: "Go for it! Don't let people change who you are, even if you get a consequence for it. I suggest you still show it to people, at least show them your talent."
Hooray, the family has smiles, the media has pizza, the kid's got a good future.
Ahmed said the arrest had made him lose his innocence.
“I can never look at the world in the same way,” he said. “I like science, but I look like a threat because of my brown skin.”
Boo, some people live to make other people's lives crappy, and this kid got a whole load of crappiness dumped on him.
It may or may not have come from his father. Considering how many people were already saying much the same thing in the media, he could have gotten the words from anywhere.
d-usa wrote: It makes the problem easy to dismiss, so it's not surprising to hear.
But if anybody arrested my kid for stupid fetched up reasons I might be acting a bit like an activist dad myself.
Its like the people saying he staged the photo if him in cuffs.
Um no. he had the cops stand the before they took the cuffs off BECAUSE he needed a photo to show how silly he looked to the media.
Yeah, it turns out the clock was disassembled and put into what appears to be an aluminum pencil case -- all in all not too impressive, though the inclusion of the power cord would make it a fire or electrical hazard. Not sure why he left the battery in the socket or even had the alarm on to begin with. There was even someone who recreated the device using the same components and it was a pretty stupid format in which to put a clock in.
His father is an activist apparently trying to make the case for Islamaphobia and was involved in some things in the past. Personally this looks like a political play that panned out.
The Airman wrote: His father is an activist apparently trying to make the case for Islamaphobia...
The case for Islamophobia appears to be pretty strong, considering this whole thing happened, and people have actually lined up to try and defend parts of it.
Yeah. Not really sure how insinuating this was some plot by the dad actually changes the reality that if the dad didn't have a point, this probably wouldn't have happened...
The Airman wrote: His father is an activist apparently trying to make the case for Islamaphobia...
The case for Islamophobia appears to be pretty strong, considering this whole thing happened, and people have actually lined up to try and defend parts of it.
I misphrased; I meant to say that he has in the past tried to make a case for Islamaphobia. It's reasonable either way that this was either a setup or simply a kid trying to pass off an old, recased alarm clock as a personal creation/project. It really doesn't help that the US has been fighting the extreme ends of Islam overseas for the past fourteen years, alongside the Garland shooting a few months ago. The case for "Islamaphobia" can most certainly be made for this one, I won't doubt that, but I get the nagging suspicion that there's more to this that evil, racist Texans jumping on a teenager because they think he's a terrorist due to his skin color or religion. It's almost like the Irving police and ISD staff took the bait hook, line and sinker? Just given the family's history I have a hard time believing this is completely kosher.
Though it is tough to say whether or not the device would have caused some trouble if it was a <insert other religion/race/color> kid here. From the way it was handled it seems as though we have a case of Zero Tolerance getting out of hand and the police suspecting that the teenager built a hoax bomb, which lines up quite reasonably with their line of questions. In any case, that's my take of this.
The Airman wrote: I misphrased; I meant to say that he has in the past tried to make a case for Islamaphobia.
No, I understood what you were saying. My point is that the Dad's case has been proven by these events. Like if someone was saying 'this road crossing is unsafe', and then his own kid got run over at that road crossing, his case would be made stronger.
Though it is tough to say whether or not the device would have caused some trouble if it was a <insert other religion/race/color> kid here. From the way it was handled it seems as though we have a case of Zero Tolerance getting out of hand and the police suspecting that the teenager built a hoax bomb, which lines up quite reasonably with their line of questions. In any case, that's my take of this.
Yeah, and I think that argument is reasonable. Zero tolerance has jerked around good kids from every ethnic background.
Taking a clock out of its case and putting it into another case is not a difficult technical job.
However the reaction of the authorities is the issue here, not the complexity of the after-school project.
The implication now seems to be that the father made his son set up a situation in which the authorities could react to an Islamic seeming boy with a "movie bomb" looking electrical device that he claimed to have made at home, with the preconceived idea that the authorities would overeact.
The Airman wrote: I misphrased; I meant to say that he has in the past tried to make a case for Islamaphobia.
No, I understood what you were saying. My point is that the Dad's case has been proven by these events. Like if someone was saying 'this road crossing is unsafe', and then his own kid got run over at that road crossing, his case would be made stronger.
Though it is tough to say whether or not the device would have caused some trouble if it was a <insert other religion/race/color> kid here. From the way it was handled it seems as though we have a case of Zero Tolerance getting out of hand and the police suspecting that the teenager built a hoax bomb, which lines up quite reasonably with their line of questions. In any case, that's my take of this.
Yeah, and I think that argument is reasonable. Zero tolerance has jerked around good kids from every ethnic background.
Very true. This is why playing up a racist angle, making it seem he's the only kid who ever got caught up in stupid school and police decisions is losing people that would otherwise be solidly in Ahmed's camp.
Wired. I don't know why my statement was put into the quote box.
Evidently it was a repackaged timer, not a clock. It just had the countdown readout facing outward, and was repackaged from an existing timer, not home made.
Frazzled wrote: Evidently it was a repackaged timer, not a clock. It just had the countdown readout facing outward, and was repackaged from an existing timer, not home made.
The internetz is abuzz (translation youtube that is blocked for me). Still a clock to me, and doesn't impact how everything went down.
The yahoos are saying its a setup citing the dad. Even assuming that, it doesn't impact how everything went down.
Unless the kid acting like it was a bomb-which there has been no evidence I've seen- then this whole thing is stupid, and once the PoPo get involved, potentially unconstitutional.
Frazzled wrote: The yahoos are saying its a setup citing the dad. Even assuming that, it doesn't impact how everything went down.
Very much this, yes. I don't think it's worth looking into or speculating upon the motivations of the kid or his family because A.) it's probably impossible to prove in any meaningful way and B.) their motivations and alleged premeditation - for which there is no evidence, just speculation - are largely irrelevant anyway; the issue is how it was handled. Which is to say, poorly. All the monday morning quarterbacking in the world can't polish that turd.
Putting it bluntly, the only way that any kind of argument about this being a setup should be given credibility is if the school and police were in on this as well.
Frazzled wrote: The yahoos are saying its a setup citing the dad. Even assuming that, it doesn't impact how everything went down.
Very much this, yes. I don't think it's worth looking into or speculating upon the motivations of the kid or his family because A.) it's probably impossible to prove in any meaningful way and B.) their motivations and alleged premeditation - for which there is no evidence, just speculation - are largely irrelevant anyway; the issue is how it was handled. Which is to say, poorly. All the monday morning quarterbacking in the world can't polish that turd.
Frazzled wrote: The yahoos are saying its a setup citing the dad. Even assuming that, it doesn't impact how everything went down.
Very much this, yes. I don't think it's worth looking into or speculating upon the motivations of the kid or his family because A.) it's probably impossible to prove in any meaningful way and B.) their motivations and alleged premeditation - for which there is no evidence, just speculation - are largely irrelevant anyway; the issue is how it was handled. Which is to say, poorly. All the monday morning quarterbacking in the world can't polish that turd.
That's quite dismissing, Ouze. Why would questions on the legitimacy of this event be without evidence or irrelevant? All I'm saying is the family has a history with Islamaphobia, and then this sequence of events happen -- unless we should just take this at face value whereas a curious kid got his dreams stomped out by the racist ISD and police of Irving. Hell, why was it done in that manner to begin with? It really does look suspicious in its entirety which was probably why the Engineering teacher told him to not show anyone. I'd say Irving took the bait quite nicely.
Of course, no one should deny the school went overboard but it's hard to say definitely this happened because he was Muslim and not because who recased and rigged device starting beeping in class.
Just as a quick aside, here's an interesting article which popped up on one of my feeds. Fairly clearly, the clock wasn't actually something he made as such, he merely rehoused it and probably (depending on how he dismantled it) reconnected one or two wires.
-Shrike- wrote: Just as a quick aside, here's an interesting article which popped up on one of my feeds. Fairly clearly, the clock wasn't actually something he made as such, he merely rehoused it and probably (depending on how he dismantled it) reconnected one or two wires.
Looks like we've got a regular Thomas Edison on our hands!
d-usa wrote: Look guys, it's okay that the teacher and cops were stupid because the kid isn't even smart or talented!
This whole event has been amazing and yet not all that surprising.
Nah. It's not okay that the teacher and cops were stupid (well, everything that happened once the police arrived was stupid at the very minimum). On the other hand, it does make some of us feel like idiots that we couldn't even recognise the fact that damn near all of his invention was a mass-produced alarm clock!
In retrospect, the button board should have been a giveaway. Oh well.
Frazzled wrote: The yahoos are saying its a setup citing the dad. Even assuming that, it doesn't impact how everything went down.
Very much this, yes. I don't think it's worth looking into or speculating upon the motivations of the kid or his family because A.) it's probably impossible to prove in any meaningful way and B.) their motivations and alleged premeditation - for which there is no evidence, just speculation - are largely irrelevant anyway; the issue is how it was handled. Which is to say, poorly. All the monday morning quarterbacking in the world can't polish that turd.
That's quite dismissing, Ouze. Why would questions on the legitimacy of this event be without evidence or irrelevant? ... ... .
Because without evidence anyone can invent any drivel they like.
d-usa wrote: Look guys, it's okay that the teacher and cops were stupid because the kid isn't even smart or talented!
This whole event has been amazing and yet not all that surprising.
Well, and the thing I said pages ago is that we don't really know what actually went on in the construction of it. He might have actually repaired something in it. Broken wire, blown capacitor, whatever. Then again, maybe he did just mount the internals in a pencil case. Hard to say.
Either way, the fact that this is a battle cry to somehow legitimize the treatment he received by some is distasteful to me.
d-usa wrote: Look guys, it's okay that the teacher and cops were stupid because the kid isn't even smart or talented!
This whole event has been amazing and yet not all that surprising.
Nah. It's not okay that the teacher and cops were stupid (well, everything that happened once the police arrived was stupid at the very minimum). On the other hand, it does make some of us feel like idiots that we couldn't even recognise the fact that damn near all of his invention was a mass-produced alarm clock!
In retrospect, the button board should have been a giveaway. Oh well.
I think that the kid used the term "invention" in the same way that many of these "As Seen On TV" companies do; loosely and not realizing that rebranding something is not actually an invention.
Plus I'm not sure that he ever actually said that "I invented a new kind of home-made clock", as I was under the impression that he said he wanted to invent something and that he liked to tinker.
Serious question though: At what point does something become an "invention"?
I built a clock that uses an old Soviet VFD for a display. I am using loose capacitors, resistors, and mass produced ICs to handle the voltage step up and to duplex the signals sent to the VFD. I'm using an Arduino with code I DID write to handle it. I sourced most of these things independent of each other.
Did I 'invent', or even 'create' something, or did I cobble premade stuff together? Should I have fabbed my own ICs and poured the electrolyte into my own capacitors?
I have no clue what 90% of that means, but I would say you created something?
In any regards, like I said earlier, most of the attention this kid has gotten from these tech companies is not strictly because "How dare they oppress a Muslim!" but because, realistically, this is a kid who(assuming the parents didn't build the thing and this isn't some elaborate ruse[!] to put Islamophobia in the limelight) deserves to have that sense of wonder and the initiative to try to educate themselves outside of school rewarded.
Kilkrazy wrote:Presumably you are not a 14 year old.
No, I'm not a 14 year old, but why does that matter when you're trying to define the word? How many things do you need to replace or change or add before something becomes something new?
Kanluwen wrote:this is a kid who(assuming the parents didn't build the thing and this isn't some elaborate ruse[!] to put Islamophobia in the limelight) deserves to have that sense of wonder and the initiative to try to educate themselves outside of school rewarded.
@Killkrazy: On one hand you have the family with a history for trying to make a case for Islamaphobia and have their son go to school with a recased alarm clock inside of an aluminum case showing it to his teachers when he was told not to by his Engineering teacher.
On the other hand, you have a Muslim teenager who was inventive and wanted to show off some electronic work to his instructors and got pounced on because of Zero Tolerance and because of his his name, skin color and religion.
Honestly it looks like this was a set up. There was no reason to put it into a metal case or show the teachers to begin with. While this whole situation is ridiculous, the staff did the right thing in alerting the authorities since Ahmed failed to say, "Hey! Ask <Engineering teacher>, they know it's just a clock!". Again, the police statement is actually reasonable if you actually read it, figuring that it's not simply a clock because, hey, the display is inside the case and the format is rather ridiculous.
If the kid was just socially unaware (I highly doubt that), then definitely an apology is in order and it's unfortunate he got trounced for bringing electronics to school.
The thing that pisses me off above all in this ridiculous event is it seems for whatever reason, no one contacted the engineering teacher. Surely Ahmed would have asked someone to have contacted this person.
What gets me is that all of the analyses of the clock and its workings are still based on the same picture that we've had since Day 1. I have yet to see any other pictures of the clock that show any real details.
Relapse wrote: Very true. This is why playing up a racist angle, making it seem he's the only kid who ever got caught up in stupid school and police decisions is losing people that would otherwise be solidly in Ahmed's camp.
Hold up a second there. That other people have been screwed around by zero tolerance nonsense is a fair argument, but it isn't a complete argument. We can recognise that while still recognising the very high probability that people's perception of his religion played a part in this nonsense.
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d-usa wrote: Look guys, it's okay that the teacher and cops were stupid because the kid isn't even smart or talented!
This whole event has been amazing and yet not all that surprising.
Yeah. Like with a lot of these things, the event itself is much less damning than the justifications that are made afterwards. That's the bit that tells you how lots of people really think.
The Airman wrote: @Killkrazy: On one hand you have the family with a history for trying to make a case for Islamaphobia and have their son go to school with a recased alarm clock inside of an aluminum case showing it to his teachers when he was told not to by his Engineering teacher.
On the other hand, you have a Muslim teenager who was inventive and wanted to show off some electronic work to his instructors and got pounced on because of Zero Tolerance and because of his his name, skin color and religion.
Honestly it looks like this was a set up. There was no reason to put it into a metal case or show the teachers to begin with. While this whole situation is ridiculous, the staff did the right thing in alerting the authorities since Ahmed failed to say, "Hey! Ask <Engineering teacher>, they know it's just a clock!". Again, the police statement is actually reasonable if you actually read it, figuring that it's not simply a clock because, hey, the display is inside the case and the format is rather ridiculous.
If the kid was just socially unaware (I highly doubt that), then definitely an apology is in order and it's unfortunate he got trounced for bringing electronics to school.
And what about the police performing an illegal interrogation, with collaboration from the school?
You seem to have missed that part out.
Also, that "history of trying to make a case for Islamophobia" was the father confronting someone over their "putting the Quran on trial" and then burning it.
The Airman wrote: @Killkrazy: On one hand you have the family with a history for trying to make a case for Islamaphobia and have their son go to school with a recased alarm clock inside of an aluminum case showing it to his teachers when he was told not to by his Engineering teacher.
On the other hand, you have a Muslim teenager who was inventive and wanted to show off some electronic work to his instructors and got pounced on because of Zero Tolerance and because of his his name, skin color and religion.
Honestly it looks like this was a set up. There was no reason to put it into a metal case or show the teachers to begin with. While this whole situation is ridiculous, the staff did the right thing in alerting the authorities since Ahmed failed to say, "Hey! Ask <Engineering teacher>, they know it's just a clock!". Again, the police statement is actually reasonable if you actually read it, figuring that it's not simply a clock because, hey, the display is inside the case and the format is rather ridiculous.
If the kid was just socially unaware (I highly doubt that), then definitely an apology is in order and it's unfortunate he got trounced for bringing electronics to school.
And what about the police performing an illegal interrogation, with collaboration from the school?
You seem to have missed that part out.
Also, that "history of trying to make a case for Islamophobia" was the father confronting someone over their "putting the Quran on trial" and then burning it.
There is some argument it was constitutional. There are also strong arguments it wasn't constsitutional as he requested his parents and was not read Miranda rights despite the involuntary detention for hours prior to arrest.
d-usa wrote: Look guys, it's okay that the teacher and cops were stupid because the kid isn't even smart or talented!
This whole event has been amazing and yet not all that surprising.
What a loser kid. I hope he drops out and starts selling dope like 95% of teenagers do according to my Uncle Darrel, but not my other Uncle Darrel or Uncle Larry.
The Po-Po and the school are 100% in the wrong for how the kid was treated. However, I'm getting a Westborro feeling from Dear Old Dad, now...
indeed, we may be at the intersection of Setup Street and Police And Admin Were Stupid Avenue
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usernamesareannoying wrote: They should have water boarded his little ass to get him to turn over his cell buddies. That kid knew exactly what he was doing.
Did you buy this Radioshack radio on credit or cash! Talk! you making us look stupid as sin-is that accidental or intentional!
Honestly, when our school systems suspend children for eating their pop tarts into the shape of a gun, treating this teen as they did sounds reasonable, if only by comparison.
I assume his intentions were innocent, but the fact of the matter is that it was a suitcase with a bunch of wires and what looked like a timer. If you had left that in a subway or tried to bring it onto a plane, you'd have started a full-blown, 5-alarm panic, regardless of the owner's ethnicity (though, I'm sure it didn't help in this case).
I mean, I've heard far more ridiculous overreactions in our school system than this. And it seems clear that the cops were quickly able to determine it wasn't a bomb, and the real issue is whether or not he meant is as a hoax, which is difficult to prove one way or the other.
About the only thing I feel as if the cops really screwed up is by temporarily denying the kid access to a laywer or his parents, which is non-trivial, granted. But it's not like they beat him with billy clubs or shot him or something.
At any rate, massively overreacting to weapons, or perceived weapons (including pop tarts and even finger pointing), is pretty rampant in our school's zero-tolerance policies, which are also called zero-sense policies, and for good reason. And at least relative to some other stories I've heard, the school's reaction seems almost reasonable.
And also, what possible reason would the UN have to host him? This doesn't seem like international-level worthy news, imo.
Yeah this can't possibly be Kosher. The kid is bright but it looks like his family exploited him for fame. Of course the counter salvos to this are "He's just a kid!" And "You're just a conspiracy theorist!". If the family is smart they'll avoid even talking about these accusations and continue on their merry way.
Yeah this can't possibly be Kosher. The kid is bright but it looks like his family exploited him for fame. Of course the counter salvos to this are "He's just a kid!" And "You're just a conspiracy theorist!". If the family is smart they'll avoid even talking about these accusations and continue on their merry way.
That's a pisser if true, but I think at this stage of the game a prudent person would take those accusations as a springboard for research in finding the truth before damning the family as opportunists.
Weirder in only that the writer is an amazing moron. You have to be pretty fething stupid to buy into the 'it was a setup' narrative, because that depends on either the cops and school being in on it, or using his super-Islam-Powers, Ahmed mind-mushed them into behaving the way they did.
That, and again, the writer is an idiot, or possibly sprung fully formed from a pod and was never a kid himself. The fact that it was not something he built himself from base components is not the great mystery requiring engineering analysis that they think it was. For one thing, Ahmed repeatedly said this was something he threw together in 10-20 minutes, because why not? At fourteen, taking apart a clock, putting it somewhere else and having it still work would be something I thought was pretty damn cool too. One time, I took a calculator apart and did my best to see how far I could stretch the internals out and how much I could disconnect before it stopped working, and the end results were pretty cool looking, but golly, wires and components everywhere. If I'd done that in the back of the room during a particularly boring class, it would've looked a hell of a lot more like a bomb in progress than this.
*edit*
I mean, c'mon, we're on a wargaming board! Go over to the painting subforum and look at how many threads you have of full grown men saying, 'hey! check out this thing I done!' It's the exact same impulse.
Yeah this can't possibly be Kosher. The kid is bright but it looks like his family exploited him for fame. Of course the counter salvos to this are "He's just a kid!" And "You're just a conspiracy theorist!". If the family is smart they'll avoid even talking about these accusations and continue on their merry way.
Yes. Having said that, even assuming its a vast conspiracy that matters only right to the point the PoPo show up. Then Operation Stupid As A Box of Rocks kicks in.
And to be fair, Western society, and particularly American society, has a reputation for being quite litigious. So is it really a surprise someone's going to court over something? I mean that wouldn't even rate in the top 100 odd lawsuits of the year I imagine, suing over a clock?
motyak wrote: And to be fair, Western society, and particularly American society, has a reputation for being quite litigious. So is it really a surprise someone's going to court over something? I mean that wouldn't even rate in the top 100 odd lawsuits of the year I imagine, suing over a clock?
Well, it sounds odd to me because I thought I read several days ago that they could just walk in and pick it up, they just hadn't done so yet. That said, yes, America has a reputation for lawsuits, so it's not exactly surprising.
Well, if that were the case, then a lawsuit would be dead in the water right at the get go. Is there any source actually stating that this is happening, because:
"We're suing to get that clock back!"
"Here you go. You could've picked it up at any time."
"Well, that was a waste of time and money."
On the other hand, if the police are refusing to return it, the lawsuit is again putting a spotlight on just what a bunch of bumbling morons the cops and city are. What excuse would they use for why they're holding onto it?
Yahoo is saying they're suing to get the clock back. I should have linked it. Anyway, I can't fathom why, its a piece of junk. Go play with all the free crap that Microsoft sent you.
It could easily still be considered evidence. Sure, they might not have the right to hold it anymore, but throwing a fit over $6 of material is really petty.
I'm guessing that if the police confiscated some piece of junk pistol of yours and refused to give it back to you even though you didn't commit any kind of crime, you would sue to get it back even if random companies send you all kinds of guns and accessories.
But I guess some people are now okay with LE just picking up whatever they want and keeping it just because.
d-usa wrote: I'm guessing that if the police confiscated some piece of junk pistol of yours and refused to give it back to you even though you didn't commit any kind of crime, you would sue to get it back even if random companies send you all kinds of guns and accessories.
But I guess some people are now okay with LE just picking up whatever they want and keeping it just because.
I actually agree with D-USA. They're committing petty (ok really petty) theft.
I'm not sure if the case is still open or not. If its still technically going through the system it would still be evidence.
Just playing a little Devils Advocate here.
I'm guessing that if the police confiscated some piece of junk pistol of yours and refused to give it back to you even though you didn't commit any kind of crime, you would sue to get it back even if random companies send you all kinds of guns and accessories.
Even a junk pistol is still going to be worth some money. This clock is worth jack squat. Plus I have a right to own a gun, I don't have a right to own a clock. If we're gonna be super technical.
Really, they should give it back. But if I were in their position I wouldn't care about the clock.
Security: After a Muslim teen was arrested for bringing what looked like a bomb to school, police were ripped for "overreacting." Supporters insisted he "invented" a clock for a "project." But his only invention was the story.
Turns out that 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed of Irving, Texas, never invented a clock, and had no reason to bring the suspicious-looking device to school. But everyone from Mark Zuckerberg to President Obama was fooled by what appears to have been a hoax designed to muster sympathy for Muslims accused of terrorism, while putting police on their heels and undermining the "see something, say something" directive for citizen vigilance. Here's the real story:
• There was no "school project" or science assignment to justify Mohamed bringing the device to school .
• Just three weeks into his freshman year, Mohamed was no "science whiz well-known by high school teachers for tinkering."
• The "clock" wasn't made from scratch but just the guts of a mass-manufactured digital clock, complete with AC cord and 9-volt backup battery connection.
• With its exposed wires and lack of a face, the gutted clock looked like a bomb. It also sounded like a bomb: The alarm was set to go off during English class; the beeping startled the teacher who called police.
• When police questioned Mohamed, he wasn't cooperative and was described as "disrespectful."
• The police chief said the device was "intended to create a level of alarm; in other words, a hoax bomb."
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
• Mohamed tweeted: "Thank you fellow supporters. We can ban together to stop this racial inequality."
• The family's spokesperson is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a terror-tied group that in 2006 sued US Airways for kicking several Muslim activists off a flight for behaving suspiciously and rattling passengers — a stunt that looks eerily similar.
Still, the Mohamed family is headed not only to the White House, but also the United Nations, where Ahmed will be held up as the poster boy of "Islamophobia." A vacation in Saudi Arabia will follow after the family collects some $10,000 in crowdfunding.
Given Mohamed's suspicious behavior and his father's agenda, Obama's expression of support is premature and inappropriate.
The real big fething red flag, if true, is that dad wanted the cops to re-cuff his son to take a kodak moment.
Security: After a Muslim teen was arrested for bringing what looked like a bomb to school, police were ripped for "overreacting." Supporters insisted he "invented" a clock for a "project." But his only invention was the story.
Turns out that 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed of Irving, Texas, never invented a clock, and had no reason to bring the suspicious-looking device to school. But everyone from Mark Zuckerberg to President Obama was fooled by what appears to have been a hoax designed to muster sympathy for Muslims accused of terrorism, while putting police on their heels and undermining the "see something, say something" directive for citizen vigilance. Here's the real story:
• There was no "school project" or science assignment to justify Mohamed bringing the device to school .
• Just three weeks into his freshman year, Mohamed was no "science whiz well-known by high school teachers for tinkering."
• The "clock" wasn't made from scratch but just the guts of a mass-manufactured digital clock, complete with AC cord and 9-volt backup battery connection.
• With its exposed wires and lack of a face, the gutted clock looked like a bomb. It also sounded like a bomb: The alarm was set to go off during English class; the beeping startled the teacher who called police.
• When police questioned Mohamed, he wasn't cooperative and was described as "disrespectful."
• The police chief said the device was "intended to create a level of alarm; in other words, a hoax bomb."
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
• Mohamed tweeted: "Thank you fellow supporters. We can ban together to stop this racial inequality."
• The family's spokesperson is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a terror-tied group that in 2006 sued US Airways for kicking several Muslim activists off a flight for behaving suspiciously and rattling passengers — a stunt that looks eerily similar.
Still, the Mohamed family is headed not only to the White House, but also the United Nations, where Ahmed will be held up as the poster boy of "Islamophobia." A vacation in Saudi Arabia will follow after the family collects some $10,000 in crowdfunding.
Given Mohamed's suspicious behavior and his father's agenda, Obama's expression of support is premature and inappropriate.
The real big fething red flag, if true, is that dad wanted the cops to re-cuff his son to take a kodak moment.
Everything here stinks to high heavens here...
How dumb would the cops have to be to do that? Real dumb, that's how dumb. I'll call BS on that just out of the sheer hope that the people policing the streets aren't that stupid.
I find it kinda strange that people are quick to dismiss criticism of this whole event. There are a number of questions that still need to be answered: pay attention to number six.
In the best scenario he and his family are liars, then it gets pretty nasty the further down you go. I've noticed that some if the criticism of this case involves some tasteless comments on Islam, and that's definitely unwarranted. Though apparently we are all conspiracy theorists if we call bs? Alrighty then.
Well, yes. As I pointed out that you do have to be pretty fething stupid to buy into the arguement you're trying to make, because it involves either supersekkritMoooslemmindcontrol powers to make it work, or else everyone is in on it. Otherwise, it just doesn't work.
Security: After a Muslim teen was arrested for bringing what looked like a bomb to school, police were ripped for "overreacting." Supporters insisted he "invented" a clock for a "project." But his only invention was the story.
Turns out that 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed of Irving, Texas, never invented a clock, and had no reason to bring the suspicious-looking device to school. But everyone from Mark Zuckerberg to President Obama was fooled by what appears to have been a hoax designed to muster sympathy for Muslims accused of terrorism, while putting police on their heels and undermining the "see something, say something" directive for citizen vigilance. Here's the real story:
• There was no "school project" or science assignment to justify Mohamed bringing the device to school .
• Just three weeks into his freshman year, Mohamed was no "science whiz well-known by high school teachers for tinkering."
• The "clock" wasn't made from scratch but just the guts of a mass-manufactured digital clock, complete with AC cord and 9-volt backup battery connection.
• With its exposed wires and lack of a face, the gutted clock looked like a bomb. It also sounded like a bomb: The alarm was set to go off during English class; the beeping startled the teacher who called police.
• When police questioned Mohamed, he wasn't cooperative and was described as "disrespectful."
• The police chief said the device was "intended to create a level of alarm; in other words, a hoax bomb."
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
• Mohamed tweeted: "Thank you fellow supporters. We can ban together to stop this racial inequality."
• The family's spokesperson is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a terror-tied group that in 2006 sued US Airways for kicking several Muslim activists off a flight for behaving suspiciously and rattling passengers — a stunt that looks eerily similar.
Still, the Mohamed family is headed not only to the White House, but also the United Nations, where Ahmed will be held up as the poster boy of "Islamophobia." A vacation in Saudi Arabia will follow after the family collects some $10,000 in crowdfunding.
Given Mohamed's suspicious behavior and his father's agenda, Obama's expression of support is premature and inappropriate.
The real big fething red flag, if true, is that dad wanted the cops to re-cuff his son to take a kodak moment.
Everything here stinks to high heavens here...
Only if you're actually gullible enough to believe that. Seriously, I've read your posts, I know you're usually a pretty smart guy... so what's your explanation here?
*edit*
The point being, you linked some random tinfoil hat article, and the bit you highlighted... right, so the photo was totall posed, but the cop in the background, none of the people present for it, the ones who have been getting hammered over it for a week, said anything about it? All you've got is an unsourced bullet point that some whackadoodle decided sounded like a good conspiracry theory.
Bookwrack wrote: Well, yes. As I pointed out that you do have to be pretty fething stupid to buy into the arguement you're trying to make, because it involves either supersekkritMoooslemmindcontrol powers to make it work, or else everyone is in on it. Otherwise, it just doesn't work.
Security: After a Muslim teen was arrested for bringing what looked like a bomb to school, police were ripped for "overreacting." Supporters insisted he "invented" a clock for a "project." But his only invention was the story.
Turns out that 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed of Irving, Texas, never invented a clock, and had no reason to bring the suspicious-looking device to school. But everyone from Mark Zuckerberg to President Obama was fooled by what appears to have been a hoax designed to muster sympathy for Muslims accused of terrorism, while putting police on their heels and undermining the "see something, say something" directive for citizen vigilance. Here's the real story:
• There was no "school project" or science assignment to justify Mohamed bringing the device to school .
• Just three weeks into his freshman year, Mohamed was no "science whiz well-known by high school teachers for tinkering."
• The "clock" wasn't made from scratch but just the guts of a mass-manufactured digital clock, complete with AC cord and 9-volt backup battery connection.
• With its exposed wires and lack of a face, the gutted clock looked like a bomb. It also sounded like a bomb: The alarm was set to go off during English class; the beeping startled the teacher who called police.
• When police questioned Mohamed, he wasn't cooperative and was described as "disrespectful."
• The police chief said the device was "intended to create a level of alarm; in other words, a hoax bomb."
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
• Mohamed tweeted: "Thank you fellow supporters. We can ban together to stop this racial inequality."
• The family's spokesperson is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a terror-tied group that in 2006 sued US Airways for kicking several Muslim activists off a flight for behaving suspiciously and rattling passengers — a stunt that looks eerily similar.
Still, the Mohamed family is headed not only to the White House, but also the United Nations, where Ahmed will be held up as the poster boy of "Islamophobia." A vacation in Saudi Arabia will follow after the family collects some $10,000 in crowdfunding.
Given Mohamed's suspicious behavior and his father's agenda, Obama's expression of support is premature and inappropriate.
The real big fething red flag, if true, is that dad wanted the cops to re-cuff his son to take a kodak moment.
Everything here stinks to high heavens here...
Only if you're actually gullible enough to believe that. Seriously, I've read your posts, I know you're usually a pretty smart guy... so what's your explanation here?
*edit*
The point being, you linked some random tinfoil hat article, and the bit you highlighted... right, so the photo was totall posed, but the cop in the background, none of the people present for it, the ones who have been getting hammered over it for a week, said anything about it? All you've got is an unsourced bullet point that some whackadoodle decided sounded like a good conspiracry theory.
C'mon dude, use a little critical thinking...
Dude...
The po po cannot divulge much information because he's a minor.
That's why I highlighted it and prefaced my comment with "if true".
That's why I highlighted it and prefaced my comment with "if true".
And I pointed out why it was absolutely not true, and reinforced it with how much your source failed at meeting the 'exceptional claims require exceptional evidence' standard. Or any evidence. Not an anonymous source, not one of the school office staff, and not one hint of such an explosive revalation has appeared anywhere, except behind that particular bullet point. It doesn't contribute much to go looking for the most outregeous lies you can find, and try and defend them by saying, 'IF true...'
We might as well start asking if this was just a trial by ISIL commandos who have snuck across the border from Mexico.
I'm not sure if the case is still open or not. If its still technically going through the system it would still be evidence.
Just playing a little Devils Advocate here.
It would need to be tied to a crime in order for it to legally be evidence.
Otherwise, it has no business being entered into evidence.
I'm guessing that if the police confiscated some piece of junk pistol of yours and refused to give it back to you even though you didn't commit any kind of crime, you would sue to get it back even if random companies send you all kinds of guns and accessories.
Even a junk pistol is still going to be worth some money. This clock is worth jack squat. Plus I have a right to own a gun, I don't have a right to own a clock. If we're gonna be super technical.
Really, they should give it back. But if I were in their position I wouldn't care about the clock.
Of course it has value. It's something he rebuilt/invented/whatever the hell you want to call it.
And if we're gonna be "super technical", the fact is that you have the "right to bear arms" not simply to "own a gun".
That's why I highlighted it and prefaced my comment with "if true".
And to amend my previous post, I was also pointing out the fact that I've seen you evicerate with scalpel like dexterity posts that tried to slip such factually absent sources into the arguement, so why was this one was getting a pass?
That's why I highlighted it and prefaced my comment with "if true".
And I pointed out why it was absolutely not true, and reinforced it with how much your source failed at meeting the 'exceptional claims require exceptional evidence' standard. Or any evidence. Not an anonymous source, not one of the school office staff, and not one hint of such an explosive revalation has appeared anywhere, except behind that particular bullet point. It doesn't contribute much to go looking for the most outregeous lies you can find, and try and defend them by saying, 'IF true...'
We might as well start asking if this was just a trial by ISIL commandos who have snuck across the border from Mexico.
And you don't think, the multitude of police officers or school officials stopped to think that this was over board?
That's why I highlighted it and prefaced my comment with "if true".
And to amend my previous post, I was also pointing out the fact that I've seen you evicerate with scalpel like dexterity posts that tried to slip such factually absent sources into the arguement, so why was this one was getting a pass?
Because of what we know taken collectively doesn't pass the smell test.
Especially when the Mayor has asked the family to allow the po po to release the official details in this matter that would largely exonerate the po po.
"What we know taken collectively" is that the mayor in this town has found herself a goldmine of favor with her voter base, Texans who feel that "dem foreigners" are out to get them.
The only thing that isn't passing the smell test here is her response.
This garbage about how "there was one-sided reporting of the interaction between Mohammed and police, saying that they are unable to release records because Mohammed is a juvenile and his family has refused to allow it."(good to see you're still fawning over Glenn Beck, Whembly!) is nonsense. The family doesn't have to allow records to be released, not simply because they have something to hide but because there is absolutely no fething reason for records to be released period.
"What we know taken collectively" is that the mayor in this town has found herself a goldmine of favor with her voter base, Texans who feel that "dem foreigners" are out to get them.
The only thing that isn't passing the smell test here is her response.
This garbage about how "there was one-sided reporting of the interaction between Mohammed and police, saying that they are unable to release records because Mohammed is a juvenile and his family has refused to allow it."(good to see you're still fawning over Glenn Beck, Whembly!) is nonsense. The family doesn't have to allow records to be released, not simply because they have something to hide but because there is absolutely no fething reason for records to be released period.
Uh... Glenn who?
Ah.. the whole, "politicians are only doing this to drum up support" argument.
Especially when the Mayor has asked the family to allow the po po to release the official details in this matter that would largely exonerate the po po.
Yet... the family refuses.
The statement was made by Mayor Beth Van Duyne on Glenn Beck's "TheBlaze" TV. She insists that if the records were released, they would show that Mohamed was "non-responsive" and "passive-aggressive" responding to police officers' questions.
Guess what? Legally, Mohamed DID NOT HAVE TO RESPOND TO THOSE QUESTIONS UNTIL A PARENT, GUARDIAN, OR LAWYER WERE PRESENT.
So him being "non-responsive" is absobloodylutely meaningless.
And considering that this mayor was a supporter of the following state bill?
Yes. I can say "the whole politicians are only doing this to drum up support" in this case. She knows that this was an overreach but if she admits it, it won't play well to the "dem Mooslims gonna blow up our town!" mouthbreathers that elected her in the first place.
But please. Keep pretending that there is something more ominous afoot. It's hilarious to see how far you bend to try to explain this as justifiable.
My, that's a constructive post whembly. Try not to just blow off other users when they raise points. If you disagree with it and your only response is "whatever man", it's better to just not respond than spam the forum with a meaningless post.
For me, the media reaction is awfully similar to the early stages to the Michael Brown fiasco. We'd get a media-blitz for two days with opinions and whathaveyous... then... a practical embargo.
With that many people involved, all that way from the School teachers, administrators, police and even government officials... something doesn't add up.
Otherwise, the insinuation is that EVERYONE there is one big islamophobe. Is that your angle too?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
motyak wrote: My, that's a constructive post whembly. Try not to just blow off other users when they raise points. If you disagree with it and your only response is "whatever man", it's better to just not respond than spam the forum with a meaningless post.
I setup myself up to that as I'm somehow the conservative pinata... and I'd posit that characterizing kan's post as "mayor "x" is only doing this to drum up support" argument as hogwash a bit more than a simple spam. I'll try to be more verbose next time.
whembly wrote: Okay then... your statement is duly noted.
For me, the media reaction is awfully similar to the early stages to the Michael Brown fiasco. We'd get a media-blitz for two days with opinions and whathaveyous... then... a practical embargo.
Yeah, the media reaction is awfully similar.
Everywhere but the Conservative side of the fence is making it clear that "something is amiss--and it isn't strictly on the individual who is being suspected of a crime" while the Conservative side of the fence is slinging mud at the suspect.
With that many people involved, all that way from the School teachers, administrators, police and even government officials... something doesn't add up.
You're absolutely right that "something doesn't add up".
That something is why in the world he was ever suspended from school or removed from his classroom to begin with.
Otherwise, the insinuation is that EVERYONE there is one big islamophobe. Is that your angle too?
I have no "angle".
I'm looking at this through the lens of someone who has planned on going into law enforcement and as someone who has a working knowledge of an individuals' rights and what you can/cannot do with someone who you have not arrested, have not charged, and have absolutely no reason to even be TALKING TO without a parent/guardian or their designated legal representative present.
Also, you understand that "Islamophobia" is not the same thing as "racism", right? Someone can be an Islamophobe without being a racist. So not quite sure why you try to act as though it's the same thing...
And quite frankly?
Yes. It is Islamophobia. If his name had been John Black and he was Spanish(as in "From Spain" Spanish) or Portugese but privately converted to Islam, do you really think that this would have been a thing?
And quite frankly?
Yes. It is Islamophobia. If his name had been John Black and he was Spanish(as in "From Spain" Spanish) or Portugese but privately converted to Islam, do you really think that this would have been a thing?
Are you trying to say this kid is the only one to have been busted by the cops because of some stupid thing the school didn't approve of?
whembly wrote: Okay then... your statement is duly noted.
For me, the media reaction is awfully similar to the early stages to the Michael Brown fiasco. We'd get a media-blitz for two days with opinions and whathaveyous... then... a practical embargo.
Yeah, the media reaction is awfully similar.
Everywhere but the Conservative side of the fence is making it clear that "something is amiss--and it isn't strictly on the individual who is being suspected of a crime" while the Conservative side of the fence is slinging mud at the suspect.
With that many people involved, all that way from the School teachers, administrators, police and even government officials... something doesn't add up.
You're absolutely right that "something doesn't add up".
That something is why in the world he was ever suspended from school or removed from his classroom to begin with.
Otherwise, the insinuation is that EVERYONE there is one big islamophobe. Is that your angle too?
I have no "angle".
I'm looking at this through the lens of someone who has planned on going into law enforcement and as someone who has a working knowledge of an individuals' rights and what you can/cannot do with someone who you have not arrested, have not charged, and have absolutely no reason to even be TALKING TO without a parent/guardian or their designated legal representative present.
Also, you understand that "Islamophobia" is not the same thing as "racism", right? Someone can be an Islamophobe without being a racist. So not quite sure why you try to act as though it's the same thing...
And quite frankly?
Yes. It is Islamophobia. If his name had been John Black and he was Spanish(as in "From Spain" Spanish) or Portugese but privately converted to Islam, do you really think that this would have been a thing?
Sure, the detainment was unjust though you have all sorts of nonsense with Zero Tolerance and this one follows in a similar vein. But that still doesn't explain why Ahmed brought this device to school and was showing his teachers (words of Mark Cuban) despite being told not to, or why the device went off in the first place. On top of that we have the blatant media misinformation about this such as he invented the clock, or it was "homemade" and they've. Articles like these seek to dismiss any criticism of the teenager entirely. Hell, he even admits to having it go off in this interview. There are claims that he brought devices to his middle school and I'd like to hear this substantiated.
Could be baseless, but I dunno. Are there any more details on the lawsuit such as seeking damages, etc. aside from getting black the Radioshack digital clock?
Wow, this is still going on. His 'clock' went off, now? I'm thinking of so many sarcastic and/or facetious comments to make right now but seriously? Is it at all within the realms of possibility that a 9th grader did something remotely sciencey with electronics that he thought was cool and wanted to show his teachers/peers? The only thing i've learned from all this is to be very careful how i eat my poptarts.
Is it at all within the realms of possibility that a 9th grader did something remotely sciencey with electronics that he thought was cool and wanted to show his teachers/peers?
I wouldn't count rehousing an alarm clock as sciencey, but YMMV. It's also irrelevant to the police interrogation, of course, but not to the initial "He's got a bomb!" overreaction.
Is it at all within the realms of possibility that a 9th grader did something remotely sciencey with electronics that he thought was cool and wanted to show his teachers/peers?
I wouldn't count rehousing an alarm clock as sciencey, but YMMV. It's also irrelevant to the police interrogation, of course, but not to the initial "He's got a bomb!" overreaction.
Not to you and me but a 14 year old doesn't think like a grown adult, because they're kids. You can buy "science kits" online, on Amazon and other places that it's basically just putting something mundane together and calling it science.
This kid probably saw something like this, thought "hey, I have an old digital clock that's busted/we're not using." and threw it all together. I think it's a little sick that people just jump to the conclusion that he has some nefarious end in mind, that shouldn't be an adults first reaction when dealing with a child in my opinion.
If it went off in class, I did much worse in class when I was 14 as a prank and had no thoughts of world domination and all it got me was a stern talking to, not arrested. I was talking about this with a friend and he related that when he was 14ish, he and two friends tossed stink bombs in the school and got detention for a couple of weeks.
Kids do dumb stuff for no apparent reason mainly because they haven't had the negative life experiences yet to learn from their dumb crap. It's called growing up.
Edit:
That's a really big picture, Amazon, here have a spoiler.
whembly wrote: Okay then... your statement is duly noted.
For me, the media reaction is awfully similar to the early stages to the Michael Brown fiasco. We'd get a media-blitz for two days with opinions and whathaveyous... then... a practical embargo.
Yeah, the media reaction is awfully similar.
Everywhere but the Conservative side of the fence is making it clear that "something is amiss--and it isn't strictly on the individual who is being suspected of a crime" while the Conservative side of the fence is slinging mud at the suspect.
With that many people involved, all that way from the School teachers, administrators, police and even government officials... something doesn't add up.
You're absolutely right that "something doesn't add up".
That something is why in the world he was ever suspended from school or removed from his classroom to begin with.
Otherwise, the insinuation is that EVERYONE there is one big islamophobe. Is that your angle too?
I have no "angle".
I'm looking at this through the lens of someone who has planned on going into law enforcement and as someone who has a working knowledge of an individuals' rights and what you can/cannot do with someone who you have not arrested, have not charged, and have absolutely no reason to even be TALKING TO without a parent/guardian or their designated legal representative present.
Also, you understand that "Islamophobia" is not the same thing as "racism", right? Someone can be an Islamophobe without being a racist. So not quite sure why you try to act as though it's the same thing...
And quite frankly?
Yes. It is Islamophobia. If his name had been John Black and he was Spanish(as in "From Spain" Spanish) or Portugese but privately converted to Islam, do you really think that this would have been a thing?
Sure, the detainment was unjust though you have all sorts of nonsense with Zero Tolerance and this one follows in a similar vein. But that still doesn't explain why Ahmed brought this device to school and was showing his teachers (words of Mark Cuban) despite being told not to, or why the device went off in the first place. On top of that we have the blatant media misinformation about this such as he invented the clock, or it was "homemade" and they've. Articles like these seek to dismiss any criticism of the teenager entirely. Hell, he even admits to having it go off in this interview. There are claims that he brought devices to his middle school and I'd like to hear this substantiated.
Could be baseless, but I dunno. Are there any more details on the lawsuit such as seeking damages, etc. aside from getting black the Radioshack digital clock?
From the outset, Ahmed has said that he brought it to school and showed it to a single teacher. That teacher then told him NOT to show it to any other teachers, and from everything that has come out?
He did NOT "show his teachers" the device. The timer went off during an English class, and the teacher reacted as though it were a bomb.
Also, I love how you cite Mark Cuban here. This is the guy whose only proof that "something stinks" is that he CLAIMS he heard the sister telling Ahmed what to say over the phone. If that's proof positive to you that this whole thing was an attempt to attention-grab, than you must also accept that Ahmed's story is true since he said it.
whembly wrote: Okay then... your statement is duly noted.
For me, the media reaction is awfully similar to the early stages to the Michael Brown fiasco. We'd get a media-blitz for two days with opinions and whathaveyous... then... a practical embargo.
Yeah, the media reaction is awfully similar.
Everywhere but the Conservative side of the fence is making it clear that "something is amiss--and it isn't strictly on the individual who is being suspected of a crime" while the Conservative side of the fence is slinging mud at the suspect.
With that many people involved, all that way from the School teachers, administrators, police and even government officials... something doesn't add up.
You're absolutely right that "something doesn't add up".
That something is why in the world he was ever suspended from school or removed from his classroom to begin with.
Otherwise, the insinuation is that EVERYONE there is one big islamophobe. Is that your angle too?
I have no "angle".
I'm looking at this through the lens of someone who has planned on going into law enforcement and as someone who has a working knowledge of an individuals' rights and what you can/cannot do with someone who you have not arrested, have not charged, and have absolutely no reason to even be TALKING TO without a parent/guardian or their designated legal representative present.
Also, you understand that "Islamophobia" is not the same thing as "racism", right? Someone can be an Islamophobe without being a racist. So not quite sure why you try to act as though it's the same thing...
And quite frankly?
Yes. It is Islamophobia. If his name had been John Black and he was Spanish(as in "From Spain" Spanish) or Portugese but privately converted to Islam, do you really think that this would have been a thing?
Sure, the detainment was unjust though you have all sorts of nonsense with Zero Tolerance and this one follows in a similar vein. But that still doesn't explain why Ahmed brought this device to school and was showing his teachers (words of Mark Cuban) despite being told not to, or why the device went off in the first place. On top of that we have the blatant media misinformation about this such as he invented the clock, or it was "homemade" and they've. Articles like these seek to dismiss any criticism of the teenager entirely. Hell, he even admits to having it go off in this interview. There are claims that he brought devices to his middle school and I'd like to hear this substantiated.
Could be baseless, but I dunno. Are there any more details on the lawsuit such as seeking damages, etc. aside from getting black the Radioshack digital clock?
From the outset, Ahmed has said that he brought it to school and showed it to a single teacher. That teacher then told him NOT to show it to any other teachers, and from everything that has come out?
He did NOT "show his teachers" the device. The timer went off during an English class, and the teacher reacted as though it were a bomb.
Also, I love how you cite Mark Cuban here. This is the guy whose only proof that "something stinks" is that he CLAIMS he heard the sister telling Ahmed what to say over the phone. If that's proof positive to you that this whole thing was an attempt to attention-grab, than you must also accept that Ahmed's story is true since he said it.
That's a bit disingenuous as Mark stated he talked to both Ahmed AND the teachers where the teenager allegedly showed each of his teachers, and Ahmed himself said he was told to put it away and plugged it in, where the device went off at a later time inside his bag -- you would know this if you listened to the Al Jazeera interview.
By his own admission he thought the device was suspicious so he pretty much incriminated himself when he caused it to go off in class. I would follow that he or his family set this up to happen, or its a case of a socially inept teenager swapping out cases for a RadioShack clock and brought it to school. I'll definitely admit that teenagers aren't the smartest people on the planet but I'll concede it's a possibility.
Because the entire situation has nothing to do with the clock and everything to do with using the legal system as a weapon. The fact that the kid ran around showing the clock to multiple teachers until one of them freaked out is pretty damning. Its very similar to anarchists who get themselves arrested for breaking a window at a protest, then use it as a platform to sue a city due to "police abuse." The only difference that it looks more and more like the father set his own son up KNOWING what the possible result was going to be, then had a pre-plan to capitalize on it.
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
Is it at all within the realms of possibility that a 9th grader did something remotely sciencey with electronics that he thought was cool and wanted to show his teachers/peers?
I wouldn't count rehousing an alarm clock as sciencey, but YMMV. It's also irrelevant to the police interrogation, of course, but not to the initial "He's got a bomb!" overreaction.
Overreaction being the key word. When people thought it might be a bomb is one thing, but after they found out it wasn't it went downhill from there. "We thought it was a bomb originally" isn't a good excuse for the behaviour that followed, especially the police interrogation. Assuming for a moment that he was doing the wrong thing at every turn, that interrogation would have probably got thrown out and the hypothetically vital information discarded because of how they conducted it. Do you think the family will be more or less inclined to talk about islamaphobia after this incident?
Because the entire situation has nothing to do with the clock and everything to do with using the legal system as a weapon. The fact that the kid ran around showing the clock to multiple teachers until one of them freaked out is pretty damning. Its very similar to anarchists who get themselves arrested for breaking a window at a protest, then use it as a platform to sue a city due to "police abuse." The only difference that it looks more and more like the father set his own son up KNOWING what the possible result was going to be, then had a pre-plan to capitalize on it.
Or they could be pissed that they had done nothing wrong and their son had his new toy illegally stolen off him to boot. You didn't do anything wrong but we're going to help ourselves to something you own. I don't care what the religion, nationality or psychiatric disorder of the parent is, doing the wrong thing while claiming to uphold the law is just wrong.
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
Taqiya + kitman = strike a blow to the kuffar.
The father playing politics after the fact doesn't necessarily mean he had instigated the incident. At the end of the day, he and his family did nothing wrong.
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
Taqiya + kitman = strike a blow to the kuffar.
The father playing politics after the fact doesn't necessarily mean he had instigated the incident. At the end of the day, he and his family did nothing wrong.
Might want to go reread the link that Frazz put up a few pages back. Might want to research what "taqiya" and "kitman" are.
I read the link. I've looked up taqiya and kitman. Arabic words for a concept/practice that is a lot older than arabic i'm guessing. At the end of the day, he brought a clock to school. We can speculate at the intentions until the cows come home, but the reactions were the damning element. He brought a clock to school. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
Torga_DW wrote: I read the link. I've looked up taqiya and kitman. Arabic words for a concept/practice that is a lot older than arabic i'm guessing. At the end of the day, he brought a clock to school. We can speculate at the intentions until the cows come home, but the reactions were the damning element. He brought a clock to school. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
Lord help us all if it had been something as dangerous as a calculator.
Torga_DW wrote: . I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
I hate the poptart 'gun' being brought up constantly. At least you put in that the kid was threatening people with it, which is the real reason that there was discipline enacted.
Torga_DW wrote: . I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
I hate the poptart 'gun' being brought up constantly. At least you put in that the kid was threatening people with it, which is the real reason that there was discipline enacted.
You're right. Totally dangerous. Good thing they did. Thank goodness it wasn't a gun made out of a thumb and pointer finger.
Torga_DW wrote: . I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
I hate the poptart 'gun' being brought up constantly. At least you put in that the kid was threatening people with it, which is the real reason that there was discipline enacted.
You're right. Totally dangerous. Good thing they did. Thank goodness it wasn't a gun made out of a thumb and pointer finger.
Whether it is dangerous or not is irrelevant. It is anti-social behavior. The case is constantly hyped by the right as being about guns and an overreaction when it really is about threatening other people. Had the kid used a french fry as a pretend stake and threatened other kids with it, the response would have been the same and rightly so.
Part of a threat is the intent to cause harm, and the other part is the capacity to do so. Chewing a poptart into the shape of a deadly weapon does not make it a deadly weapon. And the intent to harm with a poptart also needs to be called into question, given that it was a kid holding what he and everyone else know to be a pistol-shaped soft breakfast food. Treating it like a serious issue is an overreaction. We can't stop violence in the real world, but damnit we can come down hard on any children playing with their food. That'll send a message to everyone.
Torga_DW wrote: . I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
I hate the poptart 'gun' being brought up constantly. At least you put in that the kid was threatening people with it, which is the real reason that there was discipline enacted.
Let's talk about the kid the school had the cops arrest over an NRA shirt that broke no school rule, then, if a kid playing cops and robbers with a pop tart frightens you. Leaving that aside, there are any other number of examples of school administrations and teachers acting stupidly in the name of zero tolerance that have more to do with being a moron than race or religion.
Torga_DW wrote: . I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
I hate the poptart 'gun' being brought up constantly. At least you put in that the kid was threatening people with it, which is the real reason that there was discipline enacted.
Let's talk about the kid the school had the cops arrest over an NRA shirt that broke no school rule, then, if a kid playing cops and robbers with a pop tart frightens you. Leaving that aside, there are any other number of examples of school administrations and teachers acting stupidly in the name of zero tolerance that have more to do with being a moron than race or religion.
A West Virginia teen arrested and accused of nearly inciting a riot after a confrontation with a teacher over his National Rifle Association t-shirt has inspired dozens of students across his county to wear similar apparel in solidarity.
Jared Marcum, 14, had a confrontation Thursday with a Logan Middle School teacher over his NRA t-shirt, which bears the organization's logo, along with an image of a hunting rifle and the phrase, "Protect your right."
Marcum's lawyer, Ben White, said that when the teen was told to remove the shirt or turn it inside out, he attempted to engage the teacher in a debate.
"Jared respects firearms and has training to use them, and believes in the Second Amendment," White told ABCNews.com. "He believes it's being threatened by current legislation. He wore [the shirt] as an expression of political speech and the need to protect the Second Amendment."
White said that Marcum had been wearing the shirt without causing any problems from homeroom at the beginning of the school day through fifth period, and was confronted by one of the school's teachers while getting his lunch. When Jared refused to remove or reverse the shirt, the teacher began to raise his voice, and it caught the attention of students eating their lunch, White said.
Marcum was eventually arrested and taken away by police after refusing to remove the shirt. White said that when police told the teen they were going to arrest him, he stuck his hands out and said, "Fine."
Logan City Police Chief E.K. Harper told ABCNews.com that Marcum was not arrested for wearing a t-shirt, but for "disrupting the school process."
"His conduct in school almost incited a riot," Harper said.
Marcum was not put in jail, Harper said, and was released to his mother after less than 30 minutes at the police station -- normal procedure for a juvenile arrest.
White said that charges being filed against Marcum are pending the prosecutor's office's review of the evidence. But he insisted that it was the teacher who caused the issue by confronting the teen, and that video gathered from the school will prove it.
"I believe the teacher was acting beyond the scope of his employment," he said. "What the video shows is that students did step up on the benches to the tables in the lunchroom when they were escorting Jared out of building. Kids jumped up, clapping. Teachers said to get off and be quiet, and they did."
Logan county schools' dress code, which is posted online, prohibits clothing and accessories that display profanity, violence, discriminatory messages or sexual language, along with ads for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. There is no mention of the NRA or guns.
"My belief is that if the teacher could have applied some common sense and say, 'I think that violates the dress code. Let me check with the dress code,'" White said.
When contacted by ABCNews.com about the incident, Logan County Schools Superintendent Wilma Zigmond said that she was not at liberty to discuss students with the media, but indicated that more than the shirt led to the arrest.
"I don't think I've ever known of a student being suspended for a shirt," Zigmond said.
On top of his arrest and trip to the police station, Marcum was suspended from school for one day. This morning, he returned to school wearing the same t-shirt, White said.
White accompanied Marcum and his stepfather to a meeting at the school, where the principal, according to White, said that she "hates that it happened" to Marcum.
Logan County students wore NRA t-shirts today in solidarity with Marcum, White said, adding that Marcum is an honor roll student eyeing a career in the military. Zigmond did not mention any disciplinary action during school today.
White is confident that all of the evidence will work in the teenager's favor.
"There's no evidence that Jared almost caused a riot," he said. "They won't be able to produce any evidence to that fact. ... The teacher should have the ability to debate things with students. I don't care how you slice it. ... It was the teacher not acting like an adult. He created the issue."
So no. It was not "He was arrested for wearing a NRA t-shirt", it was his behavior after being told to remove the shirt which violated the dress code that led to his arrest.
Logan county schools' dress code, which is posted online, prohibits clothing and accessories that display profanity, violence, discriminatory messages or sexual language, along with ads for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. There is no mention of the NRA or guns.
Common sense would dictate that a shirt with a rifle and "PROTECT YOUR RIGHT" isn't exactly advocating for peace, now is it?
Torga_DW wrote: . I'm not sure if that's better or worse than chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun and then threatening people with it, but this seems to be where we're at at the moment. He brought a clock to school.
I hate the poptart 'gun' being brought up constantly. At least you put in that the kid was threatening people with it, which is the real reason that there was discipline enacted.
Let's talk about the kid the school had the cops arrest over an NRA shirt that broke no school rule, then, if a kid playing cops and robbers with a pop tart frightens you. Leaving that aside, there are any other number of examples of school administrations and teachers acting stupidly in the name of zero tolerance that have more to do with being a moron than race or religion.
A West Virginia teen arrested and accused of nearly inciting a riot after a confrontation with a teacher over his National Rifle Association t-shirt has inspired dozens of students across his county to wear similar apparel in solidarity.
Jared Marcum, 14, had a confrontation Thursday with a Logan Middle School teacher over his NRA t-shirt, which bears the organization's logo, along with an image of a hunting rifle and the phrase, "Protect your right."
Marcum's lawyer, Ben White, said that when the teen was told to remove the shirt or turn it inside out, he attempted to engage the teacher in a debate.
"Jared respects firearms and has training to use them, and believes in the Second Amendment," White told ABCNews.com. "He believes it's being threatened by current legislation. He wore [the shirt] as an expression of political speech and the need to protect the Second Amendment."
White said that Marcum had been wearing the shirt without causing any problems from homeroom at the beginning of the school day through fifth period, and was confronted by one of the school's teachers while getting his lunch. When Jared refused to remove or reverse the shirt, the teacher began to raise his voice, and it caught the attention of students eating their lunch, White said.
Marcum was eventually arrested and taken away by police after refusing to remove the shirt. White said that when police told the teen they were going to arrest him, he stuck his hands out and said, "Fine."
Logan City Police Chief E.K. Harper told ABCNews.com that Marcum was not arrested for wearing a t-shirt, but for "disrupting the school process."
"His conduct in school almost incited a riot," Harper said.
Marcum was not put in jail, Harper said, and was released to his mother after less than 30 minutes at the police station -- normal procedure for a juvenile arrest.
White said that charges being filed against Marcum are pending the prosecutor's office's review of the evidence. But he insisted that it was the teacher who caused the issue by confronting the teen, and that video gathered from the school will prove it.
"I believe the teacher was acting beyond the scope of his employment," he said. "What the video shows is that students did step up on the benches to the tables in the lunchroom when they were escorting Jared out of building. Kids jumped up, clapping. Teachers said to get off and be quiet, and they did."
Logan county schools' dress code, which is posted online, prohibits clothing and accessories that display profanity, violence, discriminatory messages or sexual language, along with ads for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. There is no mention of the NRA or guns.
"My belief is that if the teacher could have applied some common sense and say, 'I think that violates the dress code. Let me check with the dress code,'" White said.
When contacted by ABCNews.com about the incident, Logan County Schools Superintendent Wilma Zigmond said that she was not at liberty to discuss students with the media, but indicated that more than the shirt led to the arrest.
"I don't think I've ever known of a student being suspended for a shirt," Zigmond said.
On top of his arrest and trip to the police station, Marcum was suspended from school for one day. This morning, he returned to school wearing the same t-shirt, White said.
White accompanied Marcum and his stepfather to a meeting at the school, where the principal, according to White, said that she "hates that it happened" to Marcum.
Logan County students wore NRA t-shirts today in solidarity with Marcum, White said, adding that Marcum is an honor roll student eyeing a career in the military. Zigmond did not mention any disciplinary action during school today.
White is confident that all of the evidence will work in the teenager's favor.
"There's no evidence that Jared almost caused a riot," he said. "They won't be able to produce any evidence to that fact. ... The teacher should have the ability to debate things with students. I don't care how you slice it. ... It was the teacher not acting like an adult. He created the issue."
So no. It was not "He was arrested for wearing a NRA t-shirt", it was his behavior after being told to remove the shirt which violated the dress code that led to his arrest.
Logan county schools' dress code, which is posted online, prohibits clothing and accessories that display profanity, violence, discriminatory messages or sexual language, along with ads for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. There is no mention of the NRA or guns.
His t-shire was fine and fit that policy.
He was arrested because of both the Zero Tolerance crap, and that fact that the teacher escalated the confrontation in front of other students. The teacher should've known better and at the very minimum, non-descreptively asked the student to go to the administrative office to work this out.
Common sense would dictate that a shirt with a rifle and "PROTECT YOUR RIGHT" isn't exactly advocating for peace, now is it?
Wow... your common sense is telling you that protecting your rights connotates violent response?
that looks like a bomb!"
