Got my first end of the year bonus this year at work, and I want to put some of it toward a Stormsurge. This will be my first really big model from GW, and I'm wondering if it's worth the cost monetarily and point-wise. I think it'd just be an awesome model to see on the table. Maybe go up against an army with an IK for fun.

Thanks

SG

EDIT: Just an FYI, I do have a Tau army, so I won't be running the Stormsurge as an Ally. It'll be running as part of my Tau army.

I'd say so.

It fills a void against high AV / toughness (D weapons) and CC (Stomps)

The Ta'unar is strictly better, but you might not get as many games, not to mention price.

Short answer, from what I've seen and heard, is an emphatic 'yes'

Give it EWO, a shield generator, pay for the large blast str 10 ap2 ordnance gun (the other one is too short range to be useful) and buff it with markerlights.

It's expensive, but it's pretty damned good.

Being a fan of the older Tau fluff, the Stormsurge is an ugly abomination that goes against basically all the fluff of Tau preferring small and "practical" designs over building sized robots. It doesn't really look like a Tau unit but something that belongs in battletech plus its open topped cockpit is Imperium levels of dumb design (again Tau prefer practical over stupid design... at least they use to).

That being said it is a crazy powerful unit and its damage potential is nuts. It actually is extremely good in close combat with its stomping and has good mobility. The Stormsurge is what is going to elevate Tau to be a top tier army. Its well worth the points but its money value is entirely up to you and what you think its worth.

I concur, the Stormsurge is worth it. Its a beast. I might be in the minirity in preferring the D-cannon shotgun to the artillery piece, but I play mostly GK and IK, so enjoy roflstomping at close range.

SJ

Having faced two at a tournament this week... its a beast. I was playing against the 'short range' D-shotgun version, WITH the 'nerfed' ruling that GMC's can only fire 2 weapons, and it was still downright rude.
It's fast, durable, very capable in combat against non-D-weapon superheavies. With its D-missiles it can fairly reliably take down enemy superheavies at range. With cheap 4+ invulnerable and 5+ FNP it's resistant to most damage...

yeah. It's very good.

Trasvi wrote:
Having faced two at a tournament this week... its a beast. I was playing against the 'short range' D-shotgun version, WITH the 'nerfed' ruling that GMC's can only fire 2 weapons, and it was still downright rude.
It's fast, durable, very capable in combat against non-D-weapon superheavies. With its D-missiles it can fairly reliably take down enemy superheavies at range. With cheap 4+ invulnerable and 5+ FNP it's resistant to most damage...

yeah. It's very good.

I don't know if id call 50 points "cheap"

Yes, it is worth it, but do keep in mind that if you want to full power of this unit, it NEEDS ML support (yes, all Tau units need ML support, but the Stormsurge really does). It's only BS3, which while not a huge problem for the blast weapons, really hurts the super missile pod, the blastcannon D shot, and the destroyer missiles. And of course there's the fact that the Destroyer missiles only become D with a ML, otherwise they're just seeker missiles with AP1. I honestly believe that this guy needs a dedicated ML unit just for him to keep him buffed. If you're running a Hunter Contingent, it's not as important cause you have CF to share MLs, but outside of that, yeah he needs either Pathfinders, Drones, or Tetras dedicated to supporting him.

As for how to run him, I have 2 ideas for it, at least how I would do it. Certainly give him a Shield Gen, probably EWO too, no matter what. You can spare the 50 points to give your LoW an invuln save. After that, it depends on how many you run in a unit. A solo SS I would give the Driver Cannon, the long range S10 AP2 large blast is far more reliable than the shotgun. If you are running two, either in a unit or separate, then I would take the blastcannons, as you have enough ablative wounds plus potentially multiple targets that your SS will be able to get into D range relatively unscathed. Personal preference dictates, but that's what I'd do.

And I might be in the minority here, but I actually like the look. It looks like a utilitarian design. It's a new battlesuit (ok, ballistic suit) that's meant to replace or at least fill the role of artillery and tanks like Hammerheads (the pilots for Stormsurges are even taken from the tank academy for the fire caste). For something like that, a cannon on the shoulder and missile pods on the side make sense, while arms kinda don't. They might look better, but they wouldn't really serve a functional purpose. I do agree the open cockpit is silly, but that's my only complaint looks-wise.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Trasvi wrote:
Having faced two at a tournament this week... its a beast. I was playing against the 'short range' D-shotgun version, WITH the 'nerfed' ruling that GMC's can only fire 2 weapons, and it was still downright rude.
It's fast, durable, very capable in combat against non-D-weapon superheavies. With its D-missiles it can fairly reliably take down enemy superheavies at range. With cheap 4+ invulnerable and 5+ FNP it's resistant to most damage...

yeah. It's very good.

I don't know if id call 50 points "cheap"

For the amount of additional durability that it gives your Stormsurge, shield generator is a no-brainer at 50pts. SS should never leave home without one. Considering that most things attempting to hurt you will be grav/plasma/melta/thunderhammers, doubling your durability against those weapons is huge.

Trasvi wrote:
Having faced two at a tournament this week... its a beast. I was playing against the 'short range' D-shotgun version, WITH the 'nerfed' ruling that GMC's can only fire 2 weapons, and it was still downright rude.
It's fast, durable, very capable in combat against non-D-weapon superheavies. With its D-missiles it can fairly reliably take down enemy superheavies at range. With cheap 4+ invulnerable and 5+ FNP it's resistant to most damage...

yeah. It's very good.

I have to question the competitiveness of your local.
Even with the shield generator, it's still T6 3+/4++,it dies to spam shots.
And with mere 2 guns, he does not posses a firepower grade that isn't normal.

He's good. But nothing special compared to knights, and when it has shooting nerf he isn't even that.

I was not too keen on the look of it at first, but then I saw the pic of three of them "running", and OMG did they look awesome!

SJ

Yes, Stormsurge is good. I rather a Ta'unar for both effectiveness and looks, but the SS is a good contender for the LoW slot - much more effective than any of our SH Flyers.

Get 2

No, because no one is going to "let" you use it anyway, let alone fething two of them. If you really wanna blow $300 on two really expensive paperweights though, then by my guest.

 Sidstyler wrote:
No, because no one is going to "let" you use it anyway, let alone fething two of them. If you really wanna blow $300 on two really expensive paperweights though, then by my guest.

The game has changed. SS is a normal model in the army. If someone wants to use one then they are perfectly allowed to. If you are going to cry about it you may need to find a new game.

Or do what my group does. Nerf em. So that they cry

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Or do what my group does. Nerf em. So that they cry

I feel sorry if the only way you are able to beat tau is if you illegally nerf their army.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Or do what my group does. Nerf em. So that they cry

I feel sorry if the only way you are able to beat tau is if you illegally nerf their army.

Using grey Knights, imperial Knights, inquisition, skitarii, cult mech, and Tempestus, I can beat tau just fine. However, if we disagree on something and he sees it another way, such as the tau players on here, we usually make him play as we see it, not him.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Or do what my group does. Nerf em. So that they cry

I feel sorry if the only way you are able to beat tau is if you illegally nerf their army.

Using grey Knights, imperial Knights, inquisition, skitarii, cult mech, and Tempestus, I can beat tau just fine. However, if we disagree on something and he sees it another way, such as the tau players on here, we usually make him play as we see it, not him.

Gotcha, so you guys all team up on him and force him to play it the way you want and not how it actually should be. Got it.

 Sidstyler wrote:
No, because no one is going to "let" you use it anyway, let alone fething two of them. If you really wanna blow $300 on two really expensive paperweights though, then by my guest.

lolwut?

notredameguy10 wrote:


Gotcha, so you guys all team up on him and force him to play it the way you want and not how it actually should be. Got it.

Considering how this guy was going on and on in the FLG stream chat the other night, I'm sure he's just a pleasure to play against regardless of what army you run

Anyway, on the main topic - 1 Stormsurge is "good", but 2 is dramatically better. On it's own, with a 3+ and only T6 a single Stormsurge will drop very quickly to massed bolterfire/grav/ass cans/etc... When you've got 2, chances are you're splitting the wounds taken across the two guys simply based on the location of the fire, and also allocating wounds as desired at initiative step in CC. It ends up being an enormous chunk of your force (~900 points), but it definitely covers a lot of the same firepower you'd get at that point cost, as well as durability, CC ability, and mobility.

I can definitely see how some folks would not necessarily enjoy playing against 2 of them, so maybe stick with 1 if you're playing with a more casual group, but for anything competitive I think 2 is definitely the way to go and are damn near an auto-include unless you're running massive Riptide spam with Mont'Ka.

 Vankraken wrote:
Being a fan of the older Tau fluff, the Stormsurge is an ugly abomination that goes against basically all the fluff of Tau preferring small and "practical" designs over building sized robots. It doesn't really look like a Tau unit but something that belongs in battletech plus its open topped cockpit is Imperium levels of dumb design (again Tau prefer practical over stupid design... at least they use to).

That being said it is a crazy powerful unit and its damage potential is nuts. It actually is extremely good in close combat with its stomping and has good mobility. The Stormsurge is what is going to elevate Tau to be a top tier army. Its well worth the points but its money value is entirely up to you and what you think its worth.

Agreed, on both points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Or do what my group does. Nerf em. So that they cry

I feel sorry if the only way you are able to beat tau is if you illegally nerf their army.

Using grey Knights, imperial Knights, inquisition, skitarii, cult mech, and Tempestus, I can beat tau just fine. However, if we disagree on something and he sees it another way, such as the tau players on here, we usually make him play as we see it, not him.

Gotcha, so you guys all team up on him and force him to play it the way you want and not how it actually should be. Got it.

Just put him on ignore, everybody. He's an anti-tau troll, nothing more.

I second the comment that said taking two is better.

I generally apply that to anything really, bar unique and relic vehicles

Ass my brother plays tau he believes if he uses one he will be tfg and people will not be getting any games

Shouldn't a player be judged on their personality rather than their list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ServiceGames wrote:
Got my first end of the year bonus this year at work, and I want to put some of it toward a Stormsurge. This will be my first really big model from GW, and I'm wondering if it's worth the cost monetarily and point-wise. I think it'd just be an awesome model to see on the table. Maybe go up against an army with an IK for fun.

Thanks

SG

EDIT: Just an FYI, I do have a Tau army, so I won't be running the Stormsurge as an Ally. It'll be running as part of my Tau army.

I feel personally that it functions pretty well as an anchor for your forces. It's a massive fire magnet so many of your smaller suits and units survive since the stormsurge can't realistically be ignored.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal but I went up against a unit of two Stormsurges and hit them with at least 30 twin linked Grav Shots and 2-3 melta weapons and did 5 wounds due to it's 4++ and 5+ FNP. I would say ALWAYS bring the 50 pt invul save.

They should but

1) certain armies have a reputation that triggers bad reactions from people
2) taking good lists can label you as tfg, because the phrase is tossed around at will these days

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal but I went up against a unit of two Stormsurges and hit them with at least 30 twin linked Grav Shots and 2-3 melta weapons and did 5 wounds due to it's 4++ and 5+ FNP. I would say ALWAYS bring the 50 pt invul save.

Yeah, the 4++ is an absolute must, especially with the new White Scars Ignores Cover thingy.

 Frozocrone wrote:
They should but

1) certain armies have a reputation that triggers bad reactions from people
2) taking good lists can label you as tfg, because the phrase is tossed around at will these days

Yeah I ve noticed a trend of TFG == Person I don't like. Or the person labelling another as TFG is one themself.

Depending on how casual your gaming group may be, a Stormsurge may be too much. I am already an advanced player amongst new and old players who bawk at the sight at the new GMC. I am relegated to leaving it at home to await the next tournament. :/

Money -> No way. 120 euro for a single "new heavy support" model, you should never pay 40 euro per sprue.
nts -> Yes it is the big next thing. It is sturdy, relative cheap and dead killy what more do you want ?

 oldzoggy wrote:
Money -> No way. 120 euro for a single "new heavy support" model, you should never pay 40 euro per sprue.
nts -> Yes it is the big next thing. It is sturdy, relative cheap and dead killy what more do you want ?

How many sprues it has is irrelevant. Think about points per $. The stormsurge may cost $150, but it also is about 435 properly kitted out. that is 2.9 points/$, which is extremely high. Compare that to a broadside which is $50 and 70 points properly kitted out. That is only 1.4 points/$, half of what the stormsurge is

To everyone that says to run 2, for less points you can run 1 Ta'unar that has WS3 BS4 S8 T9 W10 I2 A2 Ld9 Sv2+

It's tougher, more reliable shooting, can overwatch, partial immunity to D weapons, immune to small arms fire, and has a more powerful array of weapons.

Weapons

Pulse ordnance multi-driver
- Concentrated bombardment 72" D 2 Ordnance 1, Massive Blast (7")
- Pattern bombardment 12"-120" 8 3 Apocalyptic Barrage (3), Pinning, No Cover Saves

+ each arm can have
Fusion eradicator 24" 8 1 Heavy 5, Melta
or
Tri-axis ion cannon
- Standard 60" 7 3 Heavy 6
- Coherent beam 60" 9 2 Heavy 3

I've thought about owning 2 because you maybe want to run the heavy retribution cadre - which costs about 1000pts. I think that's GW tricking us into getting 2.

The moment you want to run 2, your better off running 1 KX139 Ta’unar and spend the 400pts on something else.

Naaris wrote:
The question becomes this-

To everyone that says to run 2, for less points you can run 1 Ta'unar that has WS3 BS4 S8 T9 W10 I2 A2 Ld9 Sv2+

It's tougher, more reliable shooting, can overwatch, partial immunity to D weapons, immune to small arms fire, and has a more powerful array of weapons.

Weapons

Pulse ordnance multi-driver
- Concentrated bombardment 72" D 2 Ordnance 1, Massive Blast (7")
- Pattern bombardment 12"-120" 8 3 Apocalyptic Barrage (3), Pinning, No Cover Saves

+ each arm can have
Fusion eradicator 24" 8 1 Heavy 5, Melta
or
Tri-axis ion cannon
- Standard 60" 7 3 Heavy 6
- Coherent beam 60" 9 2 Heavy 3

I've thought about owning 2 because you maybe want to run the heavy retribution cadre - which costs about 1000pts. I think that's GW tricking us into getting 2.

The moment you want to run 2, your better off running 1 KX139 Ta’unar and spend the 400pts on something else.

Taunar is banned by ITC. So cannot be used in almost all tournaments. It is also $400 after shipping costs, while you can get 2 SS for $225 after discounts.

notredameguy10 wrote:


Taunar is banned by ITC. So cannot be used in almost all tournaments.

Mostly this... not usable in ETC or ITC formats.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Taunar is banned by ITC. So cannot be used in almost all tournaments. It is also $400 after shipping costs, while you can get 2 SS for $225 after discounts.

Professional Re-casters would definitely beat the price...

Naaris wrote:

Professional Re-casters would definitely beat the price...

Yes, but still at triple the price of a Stormsurge from them.

The Ta'unar is utterly ridiculous. You might get one, maybe two games with it and then you'll have to save it for special occasions.

Eh, it's no worse than any other titian, IMO. Although, that still means I won't play against it (I don't play against titans, accept in apoc).

I'll be using one. It's going to fire all its weapons. GW has actually ruledon this and there is a long thread about it with the e-mail from their rules team.

That aside, two of them is kinda maybe more than I can stomach. I'll play with two Riptides, or one StormSurge. Already bought it so at this point, done.

As long as Wraith Knights continue to be a thing and they will be for a long time, I feel no guilt whatsoever countering them. You must counter them.

So I think you really need two Riptides or one StormSurge to fill that need.

If someone wants to "not play against them" in tournaments, that's their prerogative. Though my personal opinion: Just bring fast melee and swamp it. Easiest way to shut it up and that can be done by turn two in a lot of armies.

If your worried about not getting games with the stormsurge your definitely not going to with the supremacy suit.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If your worried about not getting games with the stormsurge your definitely not going to with the supremacy suit.

I don't like Forge World in general, so I won't buy one of those.

It just simple fact my brother plays tau that people dislike hi s he never play top of line list. But he looking to build a army around 1 stormsurge and 2 riptides to be a lilltle more comptive. Be we both know he won't ever be able to use it because people Will say he can't our they will make up house rules et that will hurt him

newguy1984 wrote:
It just simple fact my brother plays tau that people dislike hi s he never play top of line list. But he looking to build a army around 1 stormsurge and 2 riptides to be a lilltle more comptive. Be we both know he won't ever be able to use it because people Will say he can't our they will make up house rules et that will hurt him

All I can say is: Eldar players better not be telling him jack about taking one. Lol.

This is everything thats wrong with the ITC. A few people have colds and forget to vote and suddenly because 50.000001% of the players (most of whom dont play Tau) vote to nerf them, the other 50% (including those who dont play Tau) are now getting their rules REWRITTEN for them.

I love the people and the idea behind ITC but the execution suuuuucks.

It's definitely worth it because it's firepower is among the highest in the game. Just don't go running around the board like a Wraightknight. You'll need to protect it and feed it the necessary markerlights.

No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

My main issue with it is it grossly violates previous Tau Fluff. For years they have been consistently rejecting large titan like vehicles and instead prefering to use large aircraft to kill big stompy walkers. I would have preferred that GW gave them a flyer instead.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My main issue with it is it grossly violates previous Tau Fluff. For years they have been consistently rejecting large titan like vehicles and instead prefering to use large aircraft to kill big stompy walkers. I would have preferred that GW gave them a flyer instead.

\
where does it even say that in the codex/supplements?

It was said repeatedly up until the 6th edition codex, where they did a complete 360 to go "Big stompy robots? That's what we do!".

People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

I guess if you want to make up fluff go for it but for a army with that much jump infantry is considered a "air super power" then thats that.

Tau is the newest galactic contender it makes obvious sense as to why they would develop new battle suits. Especially since battle suits are their trademark.

die toten hosen wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

I guess if you want to make up fluff go for it but for a army with that much jump infantry is considered a "air super power" then thats that.

What?

Tau is the newest galactic contender it makes obvious sense as to why they would develop new battle suits. Especially since battle suits are their trademark.

Battlsuits are their trademarks, not titans. Mini-mechs. Titans are a waste of recorcess. It was far easier to have dedicated air units, like the AX-1-0. At least until the 6th edition codex, when all that was thrown out the window so GW could sell shiny new models.

My main problem us that they are mc despite being machines piloted .

But hey, I guess GW do know what they write.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Trasvi wrote:
Having faced two at a tournament this week... its a beast. I was playing against the 'short range' D-shotgun version, WITH the 'nerfed' ruling that GMC's can only fire 2 weapons, and it was still downright rude.
It's fast, durable, very capable in combat against non-D-weapon superheavies. With its D-missiles it can fairly reliably take down enemy superheavies at range. With cheap 4+ invulnerable and 5+ FNP it's resistant to most damage...

yeah. It's very good.

I have to question the competitiveness of your local.
Even with the shield generator, it's still T6 3+/4++,it dies to spam shots.
And with mere 2 guns, he does not posses a firepower grade that isn't normal.

He's good. But nothing special compared to knights, and when it has shooting nerf he isn't even that.

Heh. Our local meta is quite heavily comped generally - (www.communitycomp.org)

Perhaps it's just the army I was playing with that made it particularly hard: with Daemons, I can essentially only ever take things out in combat, but getting within charge range of the thing means eating a ton of BS5 ignores cover D weapons and then stomps in combat. I generally don't care too much about Knights as I can use 'explodes' results to put some extra hull points in, and with the right gifts my screamers/princes can take it down quickly; but with the Stormsurge its number of wounds+invulnerable+FNP its the main stopping point as it will last 2+ rounds in combat against anything except the luckiest of Nurgle daemon princes. Models like Be'lakor or Lord of Change who can potentially one-round a Knight get stomped by a Stormsurge pretty quickly.

I guess something like mass scatterbike spam can shoot it down 'easily', but other 'typical' shooting spam units don't seem to have the volume of fire to take it down. See all the people attacking it with 30+grav shots and barely denting it.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

I guess if you want to make up fluff go for it but for a army with that much jump infantry is considered a "air super power" then thats that.

What?

Tau is the newest galactic contender it makes obvious sense as to why they would develop new battle suits. Especially since battle suits are their trademark.

Battlsuits are their trademarks, not titans. Mini-mechs. Titans are a waste of recorcess. It was far easier to have dedicated air units, like the AX-1-0. At least until the 6th edition codex, when all that was thrown out the window so GW could sell shiny new models.

you sound bitter about GW based on your last statement.

It stands to reason as the Tau discovered new races and enemies that they would create new weapons and combat systems. are titans a waste of resources? probably but it never hurts to have a few on hand for those special moments. i highly doubt the dang things are mass produced in any large quantity.

It bothers me though because my favorite thing about Tau is they act rationally and sorta ignore a lot of the sillyness and nonsense in the universe. It was a nice tongue and check that back in 4th edition was well done. Now they have a big stompy suit like everyone else. It feels like some of their uniqueness was stripped away to sell a model, when they could have released another flier that would have probably sold well if the rules were decent

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you) it can either death or glory the tank it's being shocked by, or take D3 wounds since it cant sidestep.

eight wounds T6 3+ armor save, dies to plasma/ melta drop pods and grav.

yeah 4 bs3 D missiles depending on marker lights.

as gargs go it is amazingly underwhelming.

die toten hosen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you) it can either death or glory the tank it's being shocked by, or take D3 wounds since it cant sidestep.

eight wounds T6 3+ armor save, dies to plasma/ melta drop pods and grav.

yeah 4 bs3 D missiles depending on marker lights.

as gargs go it is amazingly underwhelming.

Compared to what? the ridiculously undercoated wraith knight? Then yeah. Do some research and watch some battle reports. The stormsurge is the MVP in almost every one.

Lets assume BS4 plasma guns

60 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds, 10 through inv. armor save, 6.33 wounds after FnP. In fact, it takes 72 plasma shots to kill one. Yeah easy lol

meanwhile, you are shooting (assuming anchors deployed):
2 Str 10 AP2 Large Blast
8D6 str 5 AP 5
8 Str 5 AP 5 Ignore Cover
4 Str D missiles
2 Str 4 AP 5 Large Blast, Ignore Cover

All at different targets. Add in some marker lights for increased BS and Coordinated Firepower for +1 BS and you will be doing some serious damage.

Even a single one is super effective, but I hear two is that sweet spot. My Tyranid friend called me cheesy just for putting it on the table.

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you) it can either death or glory the tank it's being shocked by, or take D3 wounds since it cant sidestep.

eight wounds T6 3+ armor save, dies to plasma/ melta drop pods and grav.

yeah 4 bs3 D missiles depending on marker lights.

as gargs go it is amazingly underwhelming.

Compared to what? the ridiculously undercoated wraith knight? Then yeah. Do some research and watch some battle reports. The stormsurge is the MVP in almost every one.

Lets assume BS4 plasma guns

60 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds, 10 through inv. armor save, 6.33 wounds after FnP. So it takes more than 60 plasma shots to kill one. Yeah easy lol

oh so you've played the required number of sample games to be accurate with those numbers?
In my meta a giant robot that can't move 75% of the time is a huge mistake to take in a list.

not just compared to the WK but I'd rather have any tyranid GMC then SS.

Except it can move. 12 inches and still provides more than enough firepower.

I think it's a good unit that pays the points to show up. The wraithknight throws every thing out of whack because it's very under costed and is well known as so. Comparing a unit to the very very best devasting example of GC is a poor way to decide if a unit is worth it

die toten hosen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you) it can either death or glory the tank it's being shocked by, or take D3 wounds since it cant sidestep.

eight wounds T6 3+ armor save, dies to plasma/ melta drop pods and grav.

yeah 4 bs3 D missiles depending on marker lights.

as gargs go it is amazingly underwhelming.

Compared to what? the ridiculously undercoated wraith knight? Then yeah. Do some research and watch some battle reports. The stormsurge is the MVP in almost every one.

Lets assume BS4 plasma guns

60 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds, 10 through inv. armor save, 6.33 wounds after FnP. So it takes more than 60 plasma shots to kill one. Yeah easy lol

oh so you've played the required number of sample games to be accurate with those numbers?
In my meta a giant robot that can't move 75% of the time is a huge mistake to take in a list.

not just compared to the WK but I'd rather have any tyranid GMC then SS.

Lol im not going to try and convince you anymore, but you are dead wrong. Tyrannid GC are terrible.

And wtf are you talking about "accurate with those numbers". Its called math.

die toten hosen wrote:
oh so you've played the required number of sample games to be accurate with those numbers?

Its called math, its how you work out how to kill stuff.

In my meta a giant robot that can't move 75% of the time is a huge mistake to take in a list.

The only penalty to putting your anchors down every shooting phase is the inability to stomp. You can put them down in shooting and then pull them up in the next movement phase with no penalty. My opponents with stormsurges will put them down every single shooting phase unless I have something about to enter combat that can reliably take a stormsurge down in 1-2 rounds - which is very very little.

That person is playing their SS wrong. It can't double tap until the next shooting phase. It can still make a single attack the shooting phase it deploys. So it does have to stay anchored next turn to shoot twice. Read the rule carefully. If you move at the start of your next turn before shooting your anchors are not deployed and thus you won't be able to double shoot.

There is no penalty to deploying every turn just in case there is an opening in the next turn to pop two shots off. If this is what you meant then sorry. You weren't very clear.

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant - you can put down the anchors just in case.

Obviously if you move, you can't double-tap. But in 90% of situations, its worth putting down anchors just in case you want to double-tap the next turn. You're not actually prevented from moving if you want to run away from (or towards) something.

Played my StormSurge tonight in a live game against one of the best generals for many miles.

He killed it at the top of round 2, so i got to fire it all of once. It was pretty fun. I would have fired it twice had I remembered that it had Feel No Pain. And it would have been game deciding because he was vulnerable in round 2 if it had survived.

Tough 6 does make the StormSurge more vulnerable than you might think and 3+ armor hurt. But it's 8 wounds and it's impressive firepower. I was pretty pleased in retrospect with how just the threat of it affected enemy deployment. That was one immediate take away that I had from that game.

Another was that it affected his movement. Now I'll grant that he got a bit lucky in both the fact that I forgot it had FnP and the fact that I basically failed every save he put on me just about. But his movement was severely limited by the threat of it and he spent a lot of effort positioning and losing valuable inches to prepare in case it got its chance to fire again. In the end of the game I'd say the StormSurge did a lot for me in future rounds just having been there as short a time as it was.

I am looking forward to the next game with it. The final score was like 11-6 in my favor on the Scouring mission. It could have been a whole lot better!

die toten hosen wrote:

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you)

Aaaaand there's your problem. Anchoring gives you a lot of shots, but shuts down the two MAJOR strengths of the Stormsurge - stomps, and 12" movement. Generally you only want to anchor if you know that it will not be assaulted or tank shocked (and tank shocking it with its anchors down causes a rules problem large enough to make the universe implode).

And yes, the Tyranid GCs are god awful.

60 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds, 10 through inv. armor save, 6.33 wounds after FnP. So it takes more than 60 plasma shots to kill one. Yeah easy lol

Basically, yep, though your math is off (S7 plasma will get ~26 wounds against T6 > 13 through invul > 9 wounds post-FNP). None the less, this thing will eat an entire army of shooting for a turn and likely just die or be on the edge of death. If you've got 2, and you're positioned to reasonably split wounds between them, they're likely going to be alive until the end of the game.

All that drop pod grav/plasma/whatever coming at you is going to be eating 2 S10 AP2 large blasts, 8D6 S5 shots, 8 twin linked S5 shots, 2 twin linked ignores cover S4 blasts, and if you're feeling generous up to 8 S8 AP1 shots just from the interceptor of the two Stormsurges. Oh, did I mention that that can be split between all of the different units coming in? Let's not forget the multitude of Riptides, several of which are probably handing out S8 AP2 large blasts as well, or maybe some Broadsides?

They aren't as good as people make them out to be, grav cents will make short work of them also eldar jet bikes will eat this thing up.

The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Sorry, i cannot take you seriously...

Str D missiles are "ok at best" haha? Only a 6 does anything? I wouldn't call D3 wounds/Hull points for each on a 2-5 nothing
Every competitive list i have seen has 1, if not more stormsurges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

add in 8 wounds, a 4+ invul, and FnP and yes, it is lol

notredameguy10 wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Sorry, i cannot take you seriously...

Str D missiles are "ok at best" haha? Only a 6 does anything? I wouldn't call D3 wounds/Hull points for each on a 2-5 nothing
Every competitive list i have seen has 1, if not more stormsurges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

add in 8 wounds, a 4+ invul, and FnP and yes, it is lol

one squad of centurions take care of this thing in one go, scattbikes blow things out the water, hornets murder this thing. There haven't been on competive event won by tau in the last 2 years

Immortaldman wrote:
They aren't as good as people make them out to be, grav cents will make short work of them also eldar jet bikes will eat this thing up.

A unit of 5 Grav Cents does 4-5 wounds (25 shots > 17 hits > 15 wounds > 8 wounds after invul > 5 wounds after FNP) and that's rounding up.

It takes ~28 bikes with scatter lasers to deal 8 wounds to it (112 shots > 74 hits > 37 wounds > 12 wounds after 3+ save > 8 wounds after FNP), again rounding up.

A unit of 3 Hornets does 3-4 wounds (12 shots > 11 hits > 9 wounds > 5 wounds after invul > 3 wounds after FNP), rounding up.

If someone is taking the hardest list for eldar 28 bikes are gonna be there but I don't think that makes the Stormsurge bad. Your putting it against one of the best units in the game in a vacuum, and assuming the stormsurge won't get to fire first. A unit isn't bad just because it can't beat eldar, by that logic 99 percent of the units in the game are worthless.

Immortaldman wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Sorry, i cannot take you seriously...

Str D missiles are "ok at best" haha? Only a 6 does anything? I wouldn't call D3 wounds/Hull points for each on a 2-5 nothing
Every competitive list i have seen has 1, if not more stormsurges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

add in 8 wounds, a 4+ invul, and FnP and yes, it is lol

one squad of centurions take care of this thing in one go, scattbikes blow things out the water, hornets murder this thing. There haven't been on competive event won by tau in the last 2 years

Again, sorry if i cannot take someone with 7 posts seriously. How is the fact they haven't won a major event in 2 years have anything to do with Stormsurge lol? And thats mostly because in the last 2 years all the armies who have won have had detachments and formations, which the Tau did not have, and now do.

1PlusLogan wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:
They aren't as good as people make them out to be, grav cents will make short work of them also eldar jet bikes will eat this thing up.

A unit of 5 Grav Cents does 4-5 wounds (25 shots > 17 hits > 11 wounds > 6 wounds after invul > 4 wounds after FNP) and that's rounding up.

It takes ~28 bikes with scatter lasers to deal 8 wounds to it (112 shots > 74 hits > 37 wounds > 12 wounds after 3+ save > 8 wounds after FNP), again rounding up.

A unit of 3 Hornets does 3 wounds (12 shots > 11 hits > 9 wounds > 5 wounds after invul > 3 wounds after FNP), rounding up.

cents also have hurricane bolters (rending with tiggy in the squad) scattbikes have range on the stormsurge and that's assuming they don't have guide on them, and hornets out range this thing. Oh and you're also forgetting that the cents can get presience cast on then

Now I really don't know if should get one for my brother for Xmas as he really likes it. But if just going to die easy then why use it. I feel running with 2riptides will make choosing what to kill hard. But maybe I seeming diffwrt

notredameguy10 wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Sorry, i cannot take you seriously...

Str D missiles are "ok at best" haha? Only a 6 does anything? I wouldn't call D3 wounds/Hull points for each on a 2-5 nothing
Every competitive list i have seen has 1, if not more stormsurges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

add in 8 wounds, a 4+ invul, and FnP and yes, it is lol

one squad of centurions take care of this thing in one go, scattbikes blow things out the water, hornets murder this thing. There haven't been on competive event won by tau in the last 2 years

Again, sorry if i cannot take someone with 7 posts seriously. How is the fact they haven't won a major event in 2 years have anything to do with Stormsurge lol? And thats mostly because in the last 2 years all the armies who have won have had detachments and formations, which the Tau did not have, and now do.

even now with the new formations they still can't stand a chance. ITC ruled to nerf CF, and all the formations are sub-par at best. It doesn't matter how many posts I have lol just means I have less time on my hands then you. Tau are mid level at best, eldar, necrons walk all over tau, especially necrons. Sorry tau players just going to have to wait till the next book

The above isn't it dyeing easy. It's taking one of the hardest hitting units in the game, assuming they all get into 24 inch range, and have a psychic power go and assuming the dice are perfectly average and there is nothing else around that might stop them. The stormsurge is a good unit that is costed correctly, peoples problem is it's not an I win buttom like scatter bikes or the criminally undercosted wraith knight.

newguy1984 wrote:
Now I really don't know if should get one for my brother for Xmas as he really likes it. But if just going to die easy then why use it. I feel running with 2riptides will make choosing what to kill hard. But maybe I seeming diffwrt

If he wants it then pick it up for him. It's not THAT easy to kill, between the armor, the invuln, and the FNP it has some decent durability. Plus the amount of Dakka it can put out is ludicrous.

Immortaldman wrote:

1PlusLogan wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:
They aren't as good as people make them out to be, grav cents will make short work of them also eldar jet bikes will eat this thing up.

A unit of 5 Grav Cents does 4-5 wounds (25 shots > 17 hits > 11 wounds > 6 wounds after invul > 4 wounds after FNP) and that's rounding up.

It takes ~28 bikes with scatter lasers to deal 8 wounds to it (112 shots > 74 hits > 37 wounds > 12 wounds after 3+ save > 8 wounds after FNP), again rounding up.

A unit of 3 Hornets does 3 wounds (12 shots > 11 hits > 9 wounds > 5 wounds after invul > 3 wounds after FNP), rounding up.

cents also have hurricane bolters (rending with tiggy in the squad) scattbikes have range on the stormsurge and that's assuming they don't have guide on them, and hornets out range this thing. Oh and you're also forgetting that the cents can get presience cast on then

Have range on stormsurge? Do some research buddy. . Basically all of stormsurges weapons are greater range than scatter bikes or hornets

Rending is not guaranteed.

Storm surge has 48" gun due to Cluster Rocket System. More than enough range, especially when it can move 12" .

Not to mention the Missiles and the big gun.

Play it aggressively and it puts in a shift

Immortaldman wrote:
cents also have hurricane bolters (rending with tiggy in the squad) scattbikes have range on the stormsurge and that's assuming they don't have guide on them, and hornets out range this thing. Oh and you're also forgetting that the cents can get presience cast on then

So since you're now throwing in a bunch of random worthless variables... Tiggy needs to get Prescience, Gate/Levitate (or have pods drop in oh and not all die to Interceptor LOL), and be your Warlord (and use his Warlord Trait) and you squeeze out just enough wounds to kill the Stormsurge.

Scatbikes need a 6" or higher roll on their assault move to outrange SMS + move, and cannot outrange the 4D6 missiles, pulse driver cannon, or destroyer missiles. Likewise, Hornets are always in vulnerable range of the weapons that can hurt them.

Also, you're still putting this purely in perspective of a single Stormsurge.

and all the formations are sub-par at best.

lolwut? Have you not seen the Riptide Wing?

Immortaldman wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Sorry, i cannot take you seriously...

Str D missiles are "ok at best" haha? Only a 6 does anything? I wouldn't call D3 wounds/Hull points for each on a 2-5 nothing
Every competitive list i have seen has 1, if not more stormsurges.


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Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

add in 8 wounds, a 4+ invul, and FnP and yes, it is lol

one squad of centurions take care of this thing in one go, scattbikes blow things out the water, hornets murder this thing. There haven't been on competive event won by tau in the last 2 years

Again, sorry if i cannot take someone with 7 posts seriously. How is the fact they haven't won a major event in 2 years have anything to do with Stormsurge lol? And thats mostly because in the last 2 years all the armies who have won have had detachments and formations, which the Tau did not have, and now do.

even now with the new formations they still can't stand a chance. ITC ruled to nerf CF, and all the formations are sub-par at best. It doesn't matter how many posts I have lol just means I have less time on my hands then you. Tau are mid level at best, eldar, necrons walk all over tau, especially necrons. Sorry tau players just going to have to wait till the next book

Is this Pain4Pleasure on another account lol?

OSC is an amazing formation
Riptide Wing is amaizng
Ranged Support Cadre is great

Again, do some research before posting. Recent Battle reports have them beating both elder and neuron frequetly.

Wait I just realised...
DMAN137...immortalDMAN

Yeah that's one more for the ignore list.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Wait I just realised...
DMAN137...immortalDMAN

Yeah that's one more for the ignore list.

muhahaha

I cannot believe I just got trolled that hard.

Immortaldman wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Wait I just realised...
DMAN137...immortalDMAN

Yeah that's one more for the ignore list.

muhahaha

Lol really? Goddammit, we got trolled hard.

Honestly OP, Immortaldman is a troll and shouldn't be taken seriously. The Stormsurge is survivable for its point cost and will earn it's points back every game. If you pair it with the Drone Network from the mont'ka book, you'll have 16 marker drones eith intercept to help kill those Grav centurions as they come on the board.

1PlusLogan wrote:
I cannot believe I just got trolled that hard.

Too bad you are also Dman (new user, friends with him)

notredameguy10 wrote:

1PlusLogan wrote:
I cannot believe I just got trolled that hard.

Too bad you are also Dman (new user, friends with him)

No, but I know them, which makes the fact that I got trolled this hard even more depressing. I'm quite happy to make it publicly known who I am, I just haven't set up my forum sig, etc... yet (which is now done).

Alright guys I had my fun for the day

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

People lolled at Wraithknights 3+ armor. Got any anectdotal evidence?

@Naw, Immortaldman is a troll. You can ignore his posts.

Gotta slit my wrists now

 Sidstyler wrote:
No, because no one is going to "let" you use it anyway, let alone fething two of them. If you really wanna blow $300 on two really expensive paperweights though, then by my guest.

There are a fair amount of people who play at my local GW shop that have IKs, so I don't think running a Stormsurge every once in a while will be an issue.

SG


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 oldzoggy wrote:
Money -> No way. 120 euro for a single "new heavy support" model, you should never pay 40 euro per sprue.

This one kinda threw me off, too. I'm not sure why this model costs so much ($150USD - though I do own one now). The box size is essentially identical to a Riptide ($85USD). That said, I don't see how the Stormsurge could have that much more plastic or that many more detailed pieces than to justify the near double the cost of a Riptide.

But, all that aside, I wanted a truly big (gargantuan) model that would be for more than just show. Yeah, I could have bought an IK to run as an ally with my DA army, but from what I've gathered so far, the Mechanicus and DA really weren't that close fluff-wise. So, coming up with a good fluff story as to why an IK would be with a DA army just wasn't worth it. Since I already have a Tau army, the Stormsurge just made sense. And, if I'm not mistaken, I'll be the first one at my local GW Shop to actually have one. So, that'll be a fun reveal when it's finished and everyone sees it IRL for the first time.

SG


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 Vankraken wrote:
Being a fan of the older Tau fluff, the Stormsurge is an ugly abomination that goes against basically all the fluff of Tau preferring small and "practical" designs over building sized robots. It doesn't really look like a Tau unit but something that belongs in battletech plus its open topped cockpit is Imperium levels of dumb design (again Tau prefer practical over stupid design... at least they use to).

There actually is some fluff specifically surrounding the Stormsurge that may help work it into the older Tau mentality. Not sure as I just recently started playing Tau (like shortly after their new Codex dropped).

SG

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Immortaldman wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The Stormsurge is super effective and an auto include in competitive Tau lists. What makes it effective are the weapons and ranges it brings to the table that are not found elsewhere in our codex. A 72" Demolisher Cannon, 4d6 str 5 ap 5 missiles at 48", and potentially Str d missiles at 60". This thing is a beast and will lose many friends in a friendly environment.

However, I don't recommend anchoring it. Charge your opponent and Stomp him to smithereens.

more S5 shooting in a tau army is bad, the D missiles are ok at best and that's if they do anything (so unless you roll a 6 then there not that good) the 72" gun is the only good thing about it. I've seen tones of competitive tau armys and none have a stormsurge it's a waste of points

Ok then consider this, now you can take less Strikers because you have a Stormsurge! A GMC that can shoot more shots at a further range and is more durable to boot!

T6 with a 3+ save... Not very durable..

That sounds amazing to me. That's how bad BA are. I have nothing remotely that durable in my entire codex.

Have you considered switching your army? I hear Raven Guard are good.

Ps. This constant b'n'm by you can at times be tiresome.

Immortaldman wrote:
They aren't as good as people make them out to be, grav cents will make short work of them also eldar jet bikes will eat this thing up.

Maybe. or maybe they die first. So sure, given the chance ENOUGH Gravs would do the trick. But then the points it will take to do it is a more than fair exchange.

Eldar bikes dont scare me when the Wraith Knight is dead and cant control my movement into them. So as long as the Surge does its duty on the WraithKnight, I am pretty okay with having the remaining jetbikes spend yet more time finishing the Surge, giving me enough time to get into lethal position for the killing blow.

I will play more games with it, but its impact on enemy deployment and on movement the first two turns was a pricesless advantage in my initial game with it as aforementioned.


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newguy1984 wrote:
Now I really don't know if should get one for my brother for Xmas as he really likes it. But if just going to die easy then why use it. I feel running with 2riptides will make choosing what to kill hard. But maybe I seeming diffwrt

I wondered the same. WOULD two Riptides be better? it isn't more firepower, It isn't better in melee but it is a lot more survivable and is two units instead of one which cannot be overstated. The StormSurge gives up something to the riptides but gains something competition requires: the ability to kill the Wraith KNight and now, the ability to kill Super Heavy Tanks which have officially moved from the optional in Escalation to an actual Codex supplement and therefore useable in any game.

the StormSurge is almost a must to deal with the big bad things, while itself not BEING really in their category due to its softer skin. I think the StormSurge avoids the pitfalls of other Super Heavy/Gargants by not being so impossible to kill that people scream and tear hair out. Yet they absolutely will respect it.

As long as Wraith Knights are around, its just super hard not to take one. The board control that things like Wraith Knights exert is almsot a bigger boon to them than the actual damage they do, if you can appreciate what i am saying. The Riptides will absolutlely last longer though.

Naw wrote:


Ps. This constant b'n'm by you can at times be tiresome.

So Pot, you are familiar with Kettle.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Naw wrote:


Ps. This constant b'n'm by you can at times be tiresome.

So Pot, you are familiar with Kettle.

Indeed, should have specified "of BA". Of CF? Not so sure, as it doesn't affect me at all. So pray tell what am I complaining about?
Not

What I don't like is the facts it's already been nerfed. Because of itc rules which I guess most people play by. Like it limited on how it can shoot why can't I do as brb and codex says not by a bunch of people who hate tau

"most people" can fly a kite. Outside of an ITC tournament, play it correctly. But just know about it when you play in their fun FAQ. Unless the TO allows you to ignore it which is ENTIRELY allowed by the ITC itself. T.O.'s have final say.