Yeah, having BA themed assault termies when the codex shows the rather plain regular termies alongside is odd. While the codex probably doesn't need a second melee terminator option, it's more about the fluff and showing the black rage can take anyone in the chapter, regardless of armour, rank etc.
Dark Angels need Thunderfire Cannons, and maybe Stalkers for some halfway good AA that doesn't come from Forgeworld.
Khorne Daemonkin need Karanak, possibly Kharn (although I understand why he's not already in there fluffwise), and probably a point decrease on the Lord of Skulls. They should also be able to take Mutilators and Obliterators, and have some kind of unit of Marines riding Juggernauts (kind of like WHFB's Skullcrushers).
Tau just need some improvements on Vespids, otherwise they already have some of the best stuff in the game.
CSM need a complete revamp from the ground up, including new kits for most of their units.
-A nerf to Wraiths
-Minor buff to scarabs
-Buff to Doomsday Ark
-reduced cost on Monolith
-Canoptek Troop choice
-More Canoptek Creatures
-Minor nerf to Flayed Ones
-Minor nerf to Destroyers
-Overhaul of named HQ's to make them worth taking
Crimson Fists need a variant of the Gladius that plays more to their strengths and is a bit more fluffy. The Gladius falls short since they are already rerolling misses. Something that increases the potency of their bolters on top of their chapter tactics (Salvo 2/3 Bolters, Salvo 3/5 Heavy Bolters, etc). Something that has access to fortifications is one area the Gladius misses. Also, they should be able to spam more Devastators and Devastator Centurions.
Blood Angels need to be able to assault out of Rhinobacks. I would accept disordered charges as a balancing mechanism for that. Also, armywide assault out of deep strike is a must. Jink for Jump Packs would also be a good addition. Improved stats for Scouts and Dreadnoughts is a must too. Seriously, a one-armed C:SM Dread has more attacks than a Furioso. A super formation that has a regular Demi-Company for a Core choice as well as something similar to the Hunting Force for the White Scars but with Jump Packs and Land Speeders is a must too.
For my IG & DKOK? A core rules change that makes tanks something other than MC's that lack armor saves and a just about across the board 25% price decrease on damn near everything, more in some cases.
For CSM's? In many cases, almost the exact same thing, a core ruleset that allows multi-role units to *be* multi-role (e.g. assault out of stationary closed-top transports, tanks and walkers that don't just fall apart, etc).
My GK's? Paint, mostly paint.
I have Tau, Eldar, and Sisters as well, but haven't played them in a while, the former because I feel like a jerkward for bringing them out (plus they need paint also), the latter because quite frankly I don't own the models to run what's effective anymore
Orks: Better formations and detachments. Seriously, we have like two good ones. A lot of the issues with orks could be solved by a few special rules granted by formations, not the pathetic crap we have now. The one formation we have that's easy to build gives us the amazing buff of:
- Gain hammer of wrath attacks on units of 10+ models that charged 10+ inches.
Yeah. That'll fething help- a handful of S3 hits. And there are only two formations that actually give us the amazing rule of:
- Gain the ability to call a Waaagh! every turn after the first.
But that ability is only available in the ork warband formation which requires six units of boyz for some reason, or the greentide formation which requires one hundred boyz minimum. Why the hell do we have to invest so many goddam troops for such a minor buff when codexes like Necrons or DA get to take their best stuff and get amazing benefits for practically no reason? The only other somewhat decent formation is the bullyboyz formation which just gives 15 meganobz fearless, but that's a lot of points to invest in ork terminators. Seriously, a single formation that just gave orks access to a little bit more durability, or some way of getting into assault easier would make our day.
tau need one of 3 things.
1. power weapons
2, more psyker defense
3. a way to fall back out of combat before fighting in h2h (even if we run the risk of being swept anyway)
nah, I kid. but being able to take something akin to a Culexus at a higher alliance level would be spar.
-A nerf to Wraiths
-Minor buff to scarabs
-Buff to Doomsday Ark
-reduced cost on Monolith
-Canoptek Troop choice
-More Canoptek Creatures
-Minor nerf to Flayed Ones
-Minor nerf to Destroyers
-Overhaul of named HQ's to make them worth taking
pls never make this happen, we don't need no spider repair nightmare lists
Gamgee wrote: Updated Tau Auxiliaries to be more interesting rules wise. I love the whole allied races thing and would love to see more.
That's so true! I expected to see more weird aliens expansion after expansion, but they just went "moar robots". Perhaps the vespids were not so popular. Who could have expected that underpowered overcosted models would not be popular?
For my Eldar:
- Jetbikes cannot be compulsory troops, and/or the cannon is 1 every 3 bikes. Do not raise cost - you want to avoid spam, not people taking them.
- Wraithknight is undercosted of at least 50, I think more.
- Assuming nerfs here and there, I ask too much for the Falcon as a transport for the elite troops? even just 1-2 specific units?
The rest is, of course, more than good. Actually, if you exclude the abuses and formation madness, the Codex is what a Codex is supposed to be: a good list of diverse options all with some weight, if you exclude perhaps the Storm Guardians.
Other issues are more issues of the game in general. The Scorpion claw is overcosted IMHO, but because all the melee weapons are overcosted in the current edition. Power Klaws and Power Fists are overcosted too (and the Scorpion Claw is, in this case, fairly costed compared to them because it strikes at initiative). Especially the ones in the IG. GW thinks that a fist on a marine officer should cost like a fist in a model with less chance to hit and less resiliance. And this is just madness.
Finally, there are issues more related to the edition. A middle ground between the old Rhino Rush and Vehicle madness and the current rules could help the Banshees and many more units in many armies.
Spam and abuses should be avoided with using just the CAD. Just, from 2000 points and every 1000 on, you can add 1 HQ and 2 troops to unlock 1 elite, 1 fast and 1 heavy. Some HQ unlock 0-1 other choice as troop (like the old warboss, but more tamed). Give some flexibility like more HQ for SW and more fast attack to DE, but just that. But you cannot sell overcosted new books with this, right? Actually you still could, you could sell books with variants of the codex armies and few new units, without a rule spam carzyness that makes the game unplayable. It just needs competent or just not underpaid designers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To go on with the rant...
I left my Chaos Marines in Italy to a friend, but my heart is still there. The spiky fellows need an overhaul, and a big one. I still dream about the 3.5 codex. I know, I know, but you can do something as much as beautiful, diverse, and inspiring, without it being broken. You just need talents that are not in GW anymore, I fear. The edition rule changes above would help, but here some more specific idea:
General: play more on their hatred and their veteran status. You can write a Legions Codex later to focus on specific aspects. Reintroduce veteran abilities, underplay them if you are afraid of producing a broken codex, or delay it for the Legion Codex. Lower cost of stuff. Especially marks.
Demon synergy: once Daemons were part of the codex; You could at least help sorcerers with the summons (this could have been done already in the 7th edition rulebook, but why being competent, or perhaps, why having editors. Having competent editors is so '90). Introduce icons and items that ease the arrival of the demons, or boost their capability, or make them more "tamed" and less unpredictable.
Champion of Chaos: this rule can work in WHFB because the chaos character there are almost unchallenged. Here in 40k is a rule that should never have existed and puts its author in a very bad light. Ah, and thank you for ruining the theme of the now Space Furries, previously Space Wolves, Phil.
HQ: lower costs, introduce at least 8-10 special demonic weapons and tricks (perhaps useful for the demons, see above, or a dimensional key play-tested at least once), re-introduce chaos armour. I am sick of the loyalist stealing things.
Sorcerers: re-make the powers, at least for Tzeentch. I mean come on, is the lord of magic.
Chaos Marines: Second melee weapon 1 point, D9 base 10 Champion. Undivided Chaos Mark rerolls morale like in Chaos Warriors. 1 Heavy possible with 5 (but not 2 with 10).
Berzerkers: Raise base attacks to 2. Chainaxes for free. Melee options in the unit like the grey Hunters, but just Power Weapons, fist, or plasma pistols.
Thousand Sons: 2 Wounds. It would be broken in any other unit, in TS just make them functional. A feature is not broken per se, but in a context of rule synergy (or skornergy).
Plague Marines. Oh you. I love you. You always saved me, even against Death Company and Grey Knights and Tau fire. 1 point less.
Noise Marines: What is this salvo thing? Who had this idea? It's bad. Assault or Heavy as before. Salvo Should be moved on heavy Bolters (2/4). And additional melee weapon 1 pt/model.
Chosen: lower costs. Discipline like marines (all veterans, so 10, like in the cold codex).
Possessed: As one smart guy in a previous thread suggested, write something akin to Obliterators rules and have a pool of powers to choose from, each turn, but not the same power twice in a row. Lower costs.
Terminators: Lower cost of marks. In an expansion (Legion Codex), introduce cult terminators with a kit that will sell like hotcakes. Discipline like marines (as Chosen 10, like in the cold codex).
Raptors: Reintroduce the old mobility. They should be devious predators not assault marines with spikes. Hit and run, stuff like this.
Warp talons: assault from deep strike (perhaps reduced range?), reduce point cost. Champion can take a power fist.
Hellbrute: what is that thing? Use FW ones. Fire the designer.
Mutilators: Assault from deep strike or just accept that this unit was a terrible idea. I bet is the designer of the hellbrute. Oh my GODS
Obliterators: lower cost or put them at the level of centurions. I mean come on. BTW, thank you for stealing again our stuff, loyalists.
Dinosaurs: Why the Riptide is MC and these things have an hull? Is perhaps more a problem of the Tactical Genius that (wanted to sell for sure?) designed the Riptide, but now the damage is done and GW and FW are selling Tides in bunches. At least, lower the cost of these pitiful dinosaur things. You ruined this game, mr. Vetock.
BTW, visionary design here. What could the twisted minds of the Dark Mechanicus conceive? Dinobots, apparently. And I cannot even complain, there is no sleigh of wolf santa. UGH
IG :
- Getting back Lumbering Behemoth and Auto Targeting system. These are top priorities, since GW thinks IG always have to get the most basic stuff and no particular talent in anything.
- More doctrines, more customization. Overall, other infantry plastic kits but it's not really a Codex quality matter.
- Cheaper and more diverse artillery.
- Overall, cheaper or better core infantry.
- Slightly cheaper Hellhounds and the likes and Sentinels.
- Better Scions with more flexibility (grav guns anyone?) and better stats (seriously, a super special soldier with Ld7? Where were you GW?)
- Illimited range for radio-vox instead of the actual rule. Radio networks with a 30m range.... Once again, where were you GW?
- More Tank orders, with more flexibility and less ridiculous limits. Why "Gunners Kill on sight" can't be used to kill disembarked infantry? That could have been the most interesting thing to have... but once again, IG can't have cool stuff.
- New RR.
- Vehicles platforms for grav cannons to compete with current meta, even though I don't think that would be really fluffy.
The list is long indeed. Actually, we need a total revamp !
Spyro_Killer wrote: CSM need lots of work, and I want them to have something akin to chapter tactics for the differents traitor legions
CSM needs back the 3.5 codex, one of the best codices of the game.
If not that, then at least let them have Legion rules. They need to dump the whole idea that Chaos warbands are just blobs of random marines. With the allies rules, there is no reason that a person could not run a World Eaters detachment with an Iron Warriors detachment. And there is no reason that they shouldn't have ATSKNF. It isn't like Loyalists suddenly became less fearful after the Heresy.
CSM need to be able to be played as CSM, not blobs of Cultists with Dinobots. That is not CSM. That is Codex Chaos Cultists and Daemon Engines. And that is unbelievably stupid.
FAQS, thats also what we need, FaQs like in the old days, where they addressed the errors and dumbshit of a codex.
Revamp of Blood crushers, i mean look at the model, whats the larger of the 2?, the Bloodletter or the Jugger?
So the logic behind this, is that you always hit the Bloodletter, even though the thing is so small that you hardly see it on the back of the freakin monstrosity that is a Rhinoceros of hell made of daemonic metal and lava...
But in TWC case, its the other way around..., do i smell favoritisme here?
Also why the Nine hells can't a KDK herald buy an Axe of Khorne?..., how fething dumb is that?
- Better weapon options for range, ap, blasts and templates
- Harbingers
- Non-random C'tan powers to make them worth taking
- Transcendant C'tan returned to GMC status, even if it's a cheaper nerfed version
- Some Interceptor would be nice without having to use Forge World
- Cheaper (£), better Flayed One models
For DA: Deathwing need to be buffed. Not to the level of Ravenwing, but something. I'd actually be all for all Terminators getting a buff, including CSM. Either +1 Wound, +1 Toughness, something. Getting Grav definitely helped the army as a whole, however for fluff purposes I'd still love a Thunderfire Cannon or a Storm Raven.
For Daemons: Idk, not the bananas new formations we just got. Most of them are too expensive to use (8 units of Flesh Hounds??? What???). Maybe a better Warpstorm Table, like a 1-2 is bad, 3-9 is normal, 10-12 is great.
For Orks: points reduced, boosted Strength, or Invulns. Something to help em stick around a bit more. Their new LD also sucks and changing that would help.
Yee Gods, where to start with Nids.....
Considering they have one of the largest and arguably most interesting model ranges. A complete rules overhaul?
1. A HQ choice. Bring back Great Harlequins. Make them basically amped-up Troupe Leaders with a better statline and mostly the same special rules, but with an added Impossible Form (the 3++ rule the Solitaire has) and a rule that lets you hand-pick your trait from the Light, Twilight or Dark Warlord tables.
2. Named characters - I basically want souped-up, priced-up versions of all the character models. The fluff already has Sylandri Veilwalker as a perfect candidate for the shadowseers, and the Harlequin King could be a souped-up Great Harlequin (if they also followed my previous idea), you just need to give us a special character Death Jester and Solitaire and we're good to go! Seriously, considering the amount of significant fluff in that codex, the lack of named characters was the only thing that disappointed me.
3. Bring back mimes. They're the only other thing missing from the old Harlie fluff aside from the Great Harlequin.
Tau - every special rule, formation bonus, any rules at all, need to be explained in about three times as many words. Optimally this would take the form of multiple examples until we at last arrive at the promised land where people don't cite unambiguous rules for being ambiguous.
Space Marines - buffs to certain big strong fighty units, especially wounds and/or toughness on terminators, but dreadnoughts could use some love too.
Sisters of Battle - plastic models for every unit in their codex. Two years of psychotherapy for players of other armies so we can get to the real root of their contempt for them. Maybe a novel where they bro-up with grey knights and save a community center by way of a snowboarding competition.
Orks - either invlun saves back or good feel no pain saves. Maybe make cybork bodies give +1 to FNP rolls that stacks with painboy's FNP.
I could see orks being a FNP base army, especially if all orks got 6+ FNP that could be improved by mad doks and cyborks. That instead of invluns could be quite decent.
Next, how about a mob rule that isn't terrible? At MINIMUM, have it affect fear tests. I'd love if it counted wounds remaining instead of models, so it could help things like nobz.
Fearless warbossi. Or, again, at MINIMUM, make ghaz fearless. Come on. What other LOWs can be sweeping advanced?
On the topic of ghaz - make him not suck, maybe? He's barely better than a stock MA warboss but double the points. I4 power klaw? He and his unit permanently trade S&P for relentless? Fearless! I'd trade his one-turn 2+ invlun for a constant, decent one, but that's just me.
At any rate, for the meanest ork in the galaxy, he'll lose 1-1 to just about any LOW or decent melee HQ in existence, no contest.
More (useful) named HQs. Orks only have one (2 if you count ghaz, who is technically a LOW) that weren't previously unit upgrades - and I don't count zagstruk and badrukk because they're honestly kind of terrible. Compare to SPESS MERRENZ who have, what, 10+ named HQs?
And that's before even talking about things like decent formations and Decurion stuff.
For da orks:
1: Army-wide FNP 6+, 4+ with painboy
2: Cyborg back to 5++, Option for HQ to get 4++, maybe a relic or something
3: All Orks have access to eavy armor upgrade
4: AP 3 Flashgits, why would rich orks have no armor
5: More than one relic for warboss, better weapon options
6: Gorkanot Morkanot made super heavies, no more one shot kill from cheap weapons
7: T 5 L 9 Nobs,would make biker nobs worth their points
8: T 6 L 10 Warboss
9: No-slot HQ upgrades like older ork codex, can upgrade nob to pain boy, flash git to Badrukk, and so on
10: these characters need to be cheaper or have better stats.
9: Ghazkul Thraka T 7 L 10, Fearless, Rampage. Waaagh continues on 4+,5+,6+
10: Mixture of old mob rule and new, can use number of orks as leader ship 10+ =Fearless. If fail roll on mob rule table:
MOB RULE:
1: Leadership is failed
2-3: If character alive D6 hits, treats leadership as passed
4-5: take D6 hits, treat as passed
6: Auto pass leadership gain fearless till next ork turn and rampage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: Yee Gods, where to start with Nids.....
Considering they have one of the largest and arguably most interesting model ranges. A complete rules overhaul?
I don't think nids need complete overhaul just undo the damage they did to the older codex:
1: Old synapse, 24 inchs, warriors gain ETW
2: Returne access to biomancy or codex power equivilant
3: Buff to shadows in the warp, maybe perils on all doubles? the old one was pretty brutal as well.
4: stats that were reduced in new codex back to old codex
casvalremdeikun wrote: And there is no reason that they shouldn't have ATSKNF. It isn't like Loyalists suddenly became less fearful after the Heresy.
The idea is that the traitors have higher Ld and are generally supposed to be less likely to have their nerves fail on them in the first place after ten thousand years in the Eye of Terror, but that once they decide that enough is enough they just bail. You don't join up for the Long War to die young.
This is one of many areas in which the general rules could do with a bit of a tweak, to say the least.
My GK need so much. I'd start with the return of psybolt ammo - access to drop pods - and a reduction of the cost of land raiders...to maybe 180 points.
Orks:
Bring back the 4th edition Mob Rule (ie replace LD with amount of models), bring back the old boss pole rules (reroll for morale at the cost of a saveable wound), but in addition to this let boss poles count as an additional model for Mob Rule and let boss nobs/characters be able to buy iron gobs that increases their LD by one. This side steps the problem of old Mob Rules being pointless for small, more expensive units, especially with meganobs and flash gitz getting bosspoles standard (which is currently pointless since it you only get the effect for having one)
There's also just some units needing a general point decrease, I would love to see orks (or even just everyone) get the +1 initiative from furious assault back, and maybe give big meks more crazy weapons and the warboss some proper support abilites, but fixing Mob Rule is definately what we need.
Inquisition:
Give us a proper codex and not this sideshow, piecemeal pamphlet BS.
Xenomancers wrote: My GK need so much. I'd start with the return of psybolt ammo - access to drop pods - and a reduction of the cost of land raiders...to maybe 180 points.
As a Marine player I'm pretty content at this point. The only thing I wish was that tactical Marines where a bit cheaper or that bolters where a bit better. The game at this point has made them kinda meh cause the scale has shifted so much to big stompy monsters.
-A nerf to Wraiths
-Minor buff to scarabs
-Buff to Doomsday Ark
-reduced cost on Monolith
-Canoptek Troop choice
-More Canoptek Creatures
-Minor nerf to Flayed Ones
-Minor nerf to Destroyers
-Overhaul of named HQ's to make them worth taking
How about instead of nerfing Crons and the other top tier codices, we buff the weak ones.
Plastic Models.
At least 1 more troop option and 2 more elite options. FA and HS are sparse but solid.
Canoness needs a stat boost or cost reduction. Make her 40pts base. Also 2+armor option.
Special Characters are great, give both eternal warrior and call it good.
1 new HQ option
Plastic Models
Reduce points costs of every vehicle/squad by 5 and individual sisters by 2(hate weird points totals)
Formations to buff range and number of shots on melta
Formation to grant torrent and/or increased strength to flamers
Some love for heavy bolters. Gotta make them worth it somehow.
Plastic Models
Army wide acts of faith in addition to the individual squad ones. 1 Turn of reroll armor saves or make your opponent reroll armor saves etc. would be awesome.
-A nerf to Wraiths
-Minor buff to scarabs
-Buff to Doomsday Ark
-reduced cost on Monolith
-Canoptek Troop choice
-More Canoptek Creatures
-Minor nerf to Flayed Ones
-Minor nerf to Destroyers
-Overhaul of named HQ's to make them worth taking
How about instead of nerfing Crons and the other top tier codices, we buff the weak ones.
because a lot of these top armies have fundamentally broken mechanics that really cant be made good as a "standard". There's also numbers, it'd be easier to drop a couple of armies down than up-power a bunch of other armies that otherwise play well together (e.g. IG, GK, SW, BA, Nids, Orks, DE, etc)
SharkoutofWata wrote:Tyranids need Eternal Warrior. Somewhere, through some upgrade or something. Eternal Warrior.
Or just made the middle-sized bugs T5. I've never understood GW's resistance to that idea. Seems like a natural progression. Genestealers are T4. Warriors etc T5, MCs T6. Instead, there's a gap and a jump from T4 to T6.
Ellethorn wrote:Jetbikes squads to limited to 1 in 3 for special weapons like they used to be and an assault transport
Or, Jetbikes can go back to Fast Attack where they belong. Assault transport, maybe, but it'd be easier to have an Exarch power that allows assaulting after disembarking from a transport that didn't move before the unit disembarked.
For orks, we definitely need our invulns. in CC back. It is ridiculous that an army that is known for bashing heads in doesn't have some sort of protection, especially one known for powerful force fields. Cybork Body should just give normal FNP which changes to a +1 to any existing FNP save via things like Painboyz. Add a Zzap field or equivalent that Warbosses/Big Meks can take that give them a 4+ invuln. Even lucky bloo paint or something so even normal Nobz can take it would be nice.
Other than that, a basic Ld boost to all Nobz (should at least be higher than normal boyz now that mob rule doesn't boost it), Nobz/Warbosses/Big Meks/Painboyz get stubborn to make smaller units of boyz more durable against morale.
More ubiquitous CC weapon options, makes no sense we don't get any variety when its built into their culture. Greater access to burnas in boyz/stormboyz squads and 'Uge Hammas for Nobz like the ones in DoW2 for Nobz would be a good start.
Walkers need to be revisited, Killa Kanz need a serious price reduction and all the walkers should have 'ere we go already built in. Ramshackle should be an Ork vehicle special rule that gives them a built in invuln. against anything that doesn't have armourbane, ordnance, or destroyer.
-A nerf to Wraiths
-Minor buff to scarabs
-Buff to Doomsday Ark
-reduced cost on Monolith
-Canoptek Troop choice
-More Canoptek Creatures
-Minor nerf to Flayed Ones
-Minor nerf to Destroyers
-Overhaul of named HQ's to make them worth taking
How about instead of nerfing Crons and the other top tier codices, we buff the weak ones.
because a lot of these top armies have fundamentally broken mechanics that really cant be made good as a "standard". There's also numbers, it'd be easier to drop a couple of armies down than up-power a bunch of other armies that otherwise play well together (e.g. IG, GK, SW, BA, Nids, Orks, DE, etc)
Except even if you brought the power level down for the 7.5 codices, all those other codices have gak internal balance and many units will still not be worth running, along with 7.0 codices still having blech external balance against each other.
Sure there's a lot more to buff than to nerf, but I'd rather have it lead to better internal and external balance.
While true, internal balance is a different issue, and given how Ogryns have been atrocious in every single iteration theyve ever had, im not holding out hope for GW ever fixing some of those problems. They certainly didnt do so with Vespid or Vypers (apart from oncluding Vypers in some formations).
More to the point, the proliferation of certain things simoly needs to be drawn back. You cant have entire units of scatterlaser jetbikes, D weapons, RP in its current iteration, entire armies of superheavies, etc and maitain any realistic level of balance or a functional game system that works without essentially requiring a GM to set up games. There's a lot that simply needs trimming and removal.
I am generally on the line of upping the "defective" codex instead of nerfing the good one, but IMHO the game now went too far. The Str and rate of fire of some weapon should be nerfed, and we should hope for a return to a more flexible FoC and 0-1 limits to some unit instead of formations with broken rules and free transports for the sake of selling models.
IG: 1.Cheaper EVERYTHING.
2. Cheaper All the Things
3. Cheaper Tanks
4. you get the idea.
5. More kinds of artillery. also bring back the Colossus, gryphon, etc Currently they are in Imperial Armor and not everyone has the book, but plenty, I have seen, still have the models.
6. Add the LR Annihilator and Conqueror to the normal book. I know they are not super duper powerful or anything, but more tanks and IA again.
7. More tanks please! (that's just me). Maybe a Leman Russ with a super big flamer, or Melta Cannon like the Devil Dog.
8.Rough Riders made decent? I dunno.
9. Something that makes HWT worthwhile. Like maybe increased cover saves when clustered together like the Onagers shield? Each HWT within X inches increases the cover save by +1.
Tempetus. Cheaper. Seriously.
Skitarii.... I'm not sure... More Dakka. Cause we all need more Dakka.
Maybe something between an Onager and a Knight? Doesn't have to be a Titan... just a giant Walker with plenty of Dakka, but is in a weird spot between a Knight and a Onager or Dreadnought.
I just want another giant robot thing.
Maybe a walker Transport O_o.... like a spider Chimera... I dunno... would be cool.
Knights. Make them cheaper. Not points wise! $100+ is expensive. (yes, I know this is 40k. and that's like asking for *insert something insane yet relative*. But still)
Most codexs don't need much of anything that a new rules edition could fix. One that tones down shooting and gives assault a bit of a boost. You don't need open topped or assault vehicles if they allow you to charge out of vehicles once again. Or maybe assault from outflanking. Reduce the proliferation of AP2 HROF weapons. Makes cover harder to ignore or increase what counts as los blocking terrain.
Not sure how it would be debunked
" If this formation includes a venerable dreadnought embarked in a drop pod, the drop pod automatically arrives at the start of the chosen turn, and ignores the normal rules that determine when a drop pod arrives"
Rule prior to this says to choose turn 2,3, or 4, and units in this formation automatically arrive by deepstrike at the start of the chosen turn
Xenomancers wrote: My GK need so much. I'd start with the return of psybolt ammo - access to drop pods - and a reduction of the cost of land raiders...to maybe 180 points.
Xenomancers wrote: My GK need so much. I'd start with the return of psybolt ammo - access to drop pods - and a reduction of the cost of land raiders...to maybe 180 points.
Boo to the psybolt ammo.
Why hate psybolt so much?
Martel is becoming so embittered that he will eventually fall to Chaos.
But the joke will be on him, our codex is even worse! And the new one doesn't come out to 2017.
In all seriousness, Psybolt ammo was very annoying in 5th but it wasn't the only thing that made GK such a powerhouse army (although it was certainly a big factor). Having all power weapons and good buffs, in a game that had people relying on rapid fire and charges out of transports, was a big deal. Charging the GK was a bad idea, but so was getting out of the transport. If they popped the transport, they pretty much wiped the squad in assault. They took the strengths of the SW codex and just cranked it up to 11.
Xenomancers wrote: My GK need so much. I'd start with the return of psybolt ammo - access to drop pods - and a reduction of the cost of land raiders...to maybe 180 points.
Boo to the psybolt ammo.
Why hate psybolt so much?
Martel is becoming so embittered that he will eventually fall to Chaos.
But the joke will be on him, our codex is even worse! And the new one doesn't come out to 2017.
In all seriousness, Psybolt ammo was very annoying in 5th but it wasn't the only thing that made GK such a powerhouse army (although it was certainly a big factor). Having all power weapons and good buffs, in a game that had people relying on rapid fire and charges out of transports, was a big deal. Charging the GK was a bad idea, but so was getting out of the transport. If they popped the transport, they pretty much wiped the squad in assault. They took the strengths of the SW codex and just cranked it up to 11.
When I played them in 5th I wasn't min maxing. I basically took a bunch of strike squads in rhinos with psybolt a few in psybacks and 2 rifle dreads and ether a term or purifer bomb. The firepower was very good but it was on par with spacewolves and BA power levels. It was the psychic stuff that put them over the top. Remove from play flamers, I10 squad buffs, warp quake, ap on every CC weapons were what made them OP - plus the inquesition combos with cotez were just insane.
Would this be a 12 inch range twin linked grav gun?
I'm thinking 18" but I guess I could settle with 12" if I don't have to pay any points for the upgrade. Oh, and bikes of course are big enough to carry Grav-amps.
Would this be a 12 inch range twin linked grav gun?
I'm thinking 18" but I guess I could settle with 12" if I don't have to pay any points for the upgrade. Oh, and bikes of course are big enough to carry Grav-amps.
I was thinking 12 because the plasma gun gets a reduced range on the black-knights. If it came with a grav amp I think it would probably need to lose twinlinked. Wouldn't it be cool if attack bikes could take gravcannons with gravamps? I vote for grav cannons with gravamps on attack bikes.
Would this be a 12 inch range twin linked grav gun?
I'm thinking 18" but I guess I could settle with 12" if I don't have to pay any points for the upgrade. Oh, and bikes of course are big enough to carry Grav-amps.
I was thinking 12 because the plasma gun gets a reduced range on the black-knights. If it came with a grav amp I think it would probably need to lose twinlinked. Wouldn't it be cool if attack bikes could take gravcannons with gravamps? I vote for grav cannons with gravamps on attack bikes.
Losing twin-linked wouldn't be such a huge deal if Grav-amps can be taken on regular Black Knights. I almost always have a Libby who can cast Prescience anyway. Attack Bikes should definitely have the option to take grav too.
Martel732 wrote: The psy heavy bolter is almost as good as the dreaded scatter laser; better in a few situations.
Psy ammo made GK significantly better than SW or BA in 5th. Actually, psy ammo was the harbinger of 6th/7th ed shooting.
BA were still quite strong with their razor back las plas rushes with fnp from cheap priests assault squads with jetpacks removed and no way to challenge out their beast mode Sargent. And you could burn a rhino 18 inches and assault out of it the next turn - it was a much better edition for the BA and the GK. The psyback was a nice little tool and I do miss it. The real terror were the rifle dreads - those things made life easy.
-A nerf to Wraiths
-Minor buff to scarabs
-Buff to Doomsday Ark
-reduced cost on Monolith
-Canoptek Troop choice
-More Canoptek Creatures
-Minor nerf to Flayed Ones
-Minor nerf to Destroyers
-Overhaul of named HQ's to make them worth taking
How about instead of nerfing Crons and the other top tier codices, we buff the weak ones.
He asked about armies, Necrons are my army. And I would rather nerf top codices rather than buff lower ones to avoid power creep
For my DA, not much. Make DW able to arrive turn one again. I wouldn't mind the previous suggestions of more anti air or the thunder fire cannon.
For admech, one codex with transport options please. It doesn't even need new vehicles, just toss any combination of existing imperial transports in there.
Harlequins need to be a better stand-alone force:
*Troupes with ranged focus, assault 2 18in shuriken rifles S4 with rend
*New heavy support unit (transport that holds up to 10 models)
*Lower costed relics
*Flyer
*An actual HQ *Sky Weavers dropped in points to 40ppm
*Void Weaver and Star Weaver have 3 hp *5pt upgrade for more mirage launchers
*Formations that do not require Void Weavers
Now that Orks have a decurion, and it's gives the exact same bonuses as our weakest formation that was already in the codex and nobody runs because it is far, far too weak...
Orks need a full reboot, codex, supplements, formations, models.
This can wait until after CSM, IG, AS and Nids.
Or just sqaut the orks now so we can be done with GW.
JimOnMars wrote: Now that Orks have a decurion, and it's gives the exact same bonuses as our weakest formation that was already in the codex and nobody runs because it is far, far too weak...
Orks need a full reboot, codex, supplements, formations, models.
This can wait until after CSM, IG, AS and Nids.
Or just sqaut the orks now so we can be done with GW.
You know they'll put a positive spin on it and say you can charge 24" first turn potentially.
Which is nullified by deploying out of range and in general just shooting the first rank of boyz.
I'm still angry even after sleeping on it.
Grey Knights: Psychic power that gives psy bullets
Tau: Stormsurge has to roll a 2+ for every phase an action is taken, on a 1 it falls over becoming permanently unable to move, loses a wound, unable to attack in close combat, and can only snap shoot.
Orks: Somebody at GW to actually give a damn about the Orks
Space Wolves: Grey Hunters reroll 1s the turn they arrive from reserves
Inq: Jokero MC "walker" aka the Dreadkong
Imperial Guard:
-a 25% to 70% points reduction across the board, varying per unit
-Ogryns gain a 4+ save and Bullgryns a 3+
-Tanks gain more HP -Tanks regain LB
-Tanks gain some form of a save
-Tanks actually become relevant in this edition
-The entire Elites section of the codex gets a thorough revision
-Rough Riders become troops and become a lot more customisable
-Sentinels actually become fast
-Some form of anti DS/anti Outflank choice - even if it just a 12" bubble from the model
-More artillery variants
-Cheaper models - not points, £'s.
Inquisition:
-More customisability on the Inquisitors
-Some way to actually get an invulnerable save on my inquisitors
Martel732 wrote: Dude. You don't get all of that. The IG has problems, but not THAT many problems.
The only thing out of line in his post is the number up to 70% point reduction. I'd probably have gone with 10-25% reduction across the board.
Everything else is fair game. Russes need help, the elites section is a joke, more arty would be awesome, sentinels need something anyways, and rough riders need anything really.
The anti-DS/outflank is a different suggestion, but not unreasonable.
Martel732 wrote: Dude. You don't get all of that. The IG has problems, but not THAT many problems.
The only thing out of line in his post is the number up to 70% point reduction. I'd probably have gone with 10-25% reduction across the board.
Everything else is fair game. Russes need help, the elites section is a joke, more arty would be awesome, sentinels need something anyways, and rough riders need anything really.
The anti-DS/outflank is a different suggestion, but not unreasonable.
The point reduction was the first thing I read. To be fair, it would be easier to have not-gakky vehicle rules than reprice every vehicle in the game.
All the ork codex needs is me to win the lottery or a significant donation ( volunteers are welcome ). If I get it I will personally buy GW and change the ork codex into something decent
Martel732 wrote: Dude. You don't get all of that. The IG has problems, but not THAT many problems.
Actually it has a lot more. That was just the tip of the iceberg.
Some more:
IG -Hellhounds and their variants come down in points. Massively.
-the Master of Ordnance becomes a lot more accurate. Sure that big pieplate is scary but it is scattering across half the board.
-Bodyguards return to the codex for Company Command Sections.
-Transports come down in points.
Inquisition
-Inquisitors gain some way to increase their stats, in particular their WS and BS. Being stuck at WS and BS 4 is a joke for what is supposed to be an elite operative.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Tyranids need Eternal Warrior. Somewhere, through some upgrade or something. Eternal Warrior.
Tyranids need more than just that, good sir.
Like some kind of Invuln, or more widespread FNP. And of course a defense against Super Heavies and GCs.
Probably not Eternal Warrior, but I could get behind some units having 2+ armour saves, army wide buffs, FNP, invul saves and improved toughness with a health points reduction to help them out
SharkoutofWata wrote: Tyranids need Eternal Warrior. Somewhere, through some upgrade or something. Eternal Warrior.
Tyranids need more than just that, good sir.
Like some kind of Invuln, or more widespread FNP. And of course a defense against Super Heavies and GCs.
Probably not Eternal Warrior, but I could get behind some units having 2+ armour saves, army wide buffs, FNP, invul saves and improved toughness with a health points reduction to help them out
Yeah, a 2+ save would help a lot. Is an Improved Carapace too much of a Biomorph to ask for?
I'm going to agree with some others. Orks need a whole new company to write their rules. The callous disregard shown by gw is blatant and never ending.
For my Farsight Enclaves/Tau honestly I just want the new Imperial Armour to come out so my Y'Vahra and R'Varna Riptides are no longer listed as "Experimental Rules" and hopefully the cool models and units like Hazard Suits get a points reduction.
For my Imperial Guard I would really like to see Leman Russ tanks either get increased to 4 Hull Points to help justify their current points cost or make them cheaper across the board. Also a rework of the Elite choices and actually fixing Rough Riders so people will actually take them.
Necrons:
- I'd like to see Pariahs return. Maybe in a character form, accessible through a Royal Court.
- Triarch Stalkers getting Dread CCW, or something AP 2/3 in CC.
Orks:
- I'd be happy with the Orkanauts getting an 8 Transport capacity.
- Move the Dreadnoughts or Kanz out of the HS and into Elites.
CSM:
- Fabius Bile back to buffing more than one unit. So I can play the army I built again.
Skitarii, Harlequins, etc. (I don't play them, but I sympathize)
- An HQ choice that would give them access to a CAD and some flex for smaller point games without being branded an 'Unbound' player. I'm honestly surprised FW hasn't done something about this.
Actually, now that I think about it, Necrons could use some decent Forgeworld models (rules wise), as well as a decent Apoc level unit. Currently, we have no Titan Equivalent or anything that can shoot Strength D reliably.
My other armies are generally ok, but if I were to go for my favourite army, Blood Angels, then it would be:
(this is going to be a long list lol)
- Points reduction across the board to be more in line with Codex Space Marines.
- Updated rules for special characters to make them more competitive so we are not always going with generic ones. For example, what is the point of Tycho? He is absolutely rubbish.
- dreadnoughts and scouts brought in line with codex Space Marines.
- Gladius type formation and other formations that make good use of Blood Angel strengths and give worthwhile bonuses.
- Descent of Angels all the time, not just a warlord trait.
- +1 initiative when charging not just tied to baal strikeforce.
- Vanguard veterans can charge the turn they arrive from assault (they had this in the previous book and I loved it).
- Assault marine troops!
- Landspeeder storm - Blood Angels cry out for this! An army that is assault based with furious charge etc, needs this assault vehicle.
- Storm talon.
- Grav Cannons.
Other things like Thunderfire Cannon and Centurions don't really go with the Blood Angels play style so I have left them out. Both the landspeeder storm and the stormtalon would fit in with the Blood Angels style of play very well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Even though it doesn't exist yet, I would love to see a Deathwatch codex that includes the Inquisition and Assassins in it. There could be some really fun formations that combine the three.
Tyranids: 2+ Save Biomorph for MCs, Anti-GMC/SHV unit, Not being shot off the board turn 1/2.
Necrons: More Canoptek Stuff, access to anti psyker abilities, MAKE CTAN COOL AGAIN, We got the Night Sycthe and Anni. Barge nerfs now we need to fix the whole we never die thing, monolith/obelisk buff, And Finally Destroyers are fine they are the only mobile gun platforms we have and they cost the same amount as a wraith sooooo.
JimOnMars wrote: Now that Orks have a decurion, and it's gives the exact same bonuses as our weakest formation that was already in the codex and nobody runs because it is far, far too weak...
Orks need a full reboot, codex, supplements, formations, models.
This can wait until after CSM, IG, AS and Nids.
Or just sqaut the orks now so we can be done with GW.
You know they'll put a positive spin on it and say you can charge 24" first turn potentially.
Which is nullified by deploying out of range and in general just shooting the first rank of boyz.
I'm still angry even after sleeping on it.
Technically 30 max, if they start in trukks. Reliably (assuming trukks have planks) it's about 25 or so...unless you do the sideways-deployed pivoting dick move...in which case it's about 27" reliably, 32" max or so.
I can't be bothered to read through what everyone has said but here is what Eldar need:
Less hate.
More expensive Wraithknight
An open-topped transport
Less hate
Webway Portals. There is no reason for Dark Eldar (and possibly Corsairs) to have this technology and not Eldar. Who use the Webway Portal to appear out of nowhere and kill their enemies.
Less hate.
Turn one death wing
Asmodai buff
Eternal warrior and AP2 on azreal.
Armor bane on nephilim
That is all really. Although I do miss the dakka banner and fnp banner. Gw even launched the decals before removing them... Still I made peace with not being able to fire 100 twin linked bolter shots anymore
Happyjew wrote: I can't be bothered to read through what everyone has said but here is what Eldar need:
Less hate.
More expensive Wraithknight
An open-topped transport
Less hate
Webway Portals. There is no reason for Dark Eldar (and possibly Corsairs) to have this technology and not Eldar. Who use the Webway Portal to appear out of nowhere and kill their enemies.
Less hate.
Martel732 wrote: "For GK, the ability to assault out of deep strike. "
BA should really have this too. Good luck with the hate on that.
No hate, is perfectly reasonable for those two factions to have it
You haven't heard the Tau players' opinions on this clearly. It's okay for them to shoot BA like ducks in a barrel, though. It really pisses me off, because I was the first one in my play group to admit 3rd ed Rhino rush was insane and stop using it. But Tau players in 7th? Nothing wrong here, move along. Send all your hate to the Eldar... (who also deserve mass hate)
Necrons need a way to reliably deal with GCs/SHVs. We're one of the stronger codices until a Wraithknight hits the table and then it's like "welp alright just pack up and go home I guess".
Requizen wrote: Necrons need a way to reliably deal with GCs/SHVs. We're one of the stronger codices until a Wraithknight hits the table and then it's like "welp alright just pack up and go home I guess".
I haven't had an issue with them. Between Wraiths, Scarabs, and Destroyers, plus some pot shots from infantry, I've always been able to kill them within 2-3 turns max.
Martel732 wrote: "For GK, the ability to assault out of deep strike. "
BA should really have this too. Good luck with the hate on that.
No hate, is perfectly reasonable for those two factions to have it
You haven't heard the Tau players' opinions on this clearly. It's okay for them to shoot BA like ducks in a barrel, though. It really pisses me off, because I was the first one in my play group to admit 3rd ed Rhino rush was insane and stop using it. But Tau players in 7th? Nothing wrong here, move along. Send all your hate to the Eldar... (who also deserve mass hate)
In that situation, BA also have to survive interceptor AND overwatch, what the heck do they have to complain about *eyeroll*
I would love the close combat phase to be more viable (and by extension all factions that rely on it) it just leads to a more interesting game, and by the by I really would prefer all factions to have a codex comparable with Eldar, I can’t tell you how liberating it is to pick almost anything in the codex and have it perform well on the table… All factions should have the freedom, just imagine Assault marines, Sanguinary guard, dreadnoughts, flash gits etc. be as commonplace as scatterbikes, grav spam and riptides… I suppose can dream…
Kind Regards,
An Eldar player who just wants balance and a little less hate…
Martel732 wrote: "For GK, the ability to assault out of deep strike. "
BA should really have this too. Good luck with the hate on that.
No hate, is perfectly reasonable for those two factions to have it
You haven't heard the Tau players' opinions on this clearly. It's okay for them to shoot BA like ducks in a barrel, though. It really pisses me off, because I was the first one in my play group to admit 3rd ed Rhino rush was insane and stop using it. But Tau players in 7th? Nothing wrong here, move along. Send all your hate to the Eldar... (who also deserve mass hate)
The main problem with assault from reserves/deep strike was the fact that the person about to receive it had no options. But now we can fire overwatch, so from a gaming perspective, there is something you can do about it. Even if it’s just roll some dice to feel good before the blender starts in on you. You actually get to interact with the assault unit before you remove your casualties.
I’d be fine with it coming back for elite assault troops.
Inkubas wrote: Turn one death wing
Asmodai buff
Eternal warrior and AP2 on azreal.
Armor bane on nephilim
That is all really. Although I do miss the dakka banner and fnp banner. Gw even launched the decals before removing them... Still I made peace with not being able to fire 100 twin linked bolter shots anymore
I really liked the dakka banner too, but I wound up running some weird army comps - standard Command Squad in a LRC surrounded by Ravenwing Bike Squadrons with a Librarian on a bike with a PFG riding right behind the LRC. I'm sorry the dakka banner is gone, but we DA players got enough back in return to make up for it.
What I think the Dark Angels could use:
Stormraven
Thunderfire cannon
Eternal Warrior on Azrael - absolutely
I'd also like to see Sammael get a 2+ save. He really needs it.
I don't think the Nephilim needs Armor Bane, but I would like it if we could swap out the near-useless twin linked heavy bolter for something that would actually be useful. The Stormraven gets to swap a TLHB for a twin-linked multimelta as a points-neutral exchange. If the Nephilim could do the same, I'd be a happy man.
Martel732 wrote: The "blender" that often loses CC to Riptides? Not much of a blender.
One of the perks of the surprise assault out of deepstrike is being able to pick your target. I know riptides are tough, but they are not invulnerable. I’m sure you could put something together to take one down. Especially if you only needed to eat one round of overwatch before getting to CC, rather then getting shot up on the way over.
Inkubas wrote: Turn one death wing
Asmodai buff
Eternal warrior and AP2 on azreal.
Armor bane on nephilim
That is all really. Although I do miss the dakka banner and fnp banner. Gw even launched the decals before removing them... Still I made peace with not being able to fire 100 twin linked bolter shots anymore
I really liked the dakka banner too, but I wound up running some weird army comps - standard Command Squad in a LRC surrounded by Ravenwing Bike Squadrons with a Librarian on a bike with a PFG riding right behind the LRC. I'm sorry the dakka banner is gone, but we DA players got enough back in return to make up for it.
What I think the Dark Angels could use:
Stormraven
Thunderfire cannon
Eternal Warrior on Azrael - absolutely
I'd also like to see Sammael get a 2+ save. He really needs it.
I don't think the Nephilim needs Armor Bane, but I would like it if we could swap out the near-useless twin linked heavy bolter for something that would actually be useful. The Stormraven gets to swap a TLHB for a twin-linked multimelta as a points-neutral exchange. If the Nephilim could do the same, I'd be a happy man.
Oh, I know that. The Dakka banner was a cool banner. My gripe was more along the lines of releasing the decals and then removing the banner...that was a bad move IMO. I like the idea of Sam w/ a better save and I can see your point with the heavy bolter. I don't think we need a thunder fire cannon though as we've got enough things to deal with massed infantry.
For my Space Marines: a buyer who wants them so I can buy more Sisters of Battle.
For my Sisters of Battle: see my trade list in the swap shop, also plastic models, and a Land Raider in a physical codex, preferably a Redeemer as it makes perfect sense.
IG: being called Imperial Guard again. Bikes with twl lasguns and attack bikes. Sentinel HQ squads, K-9 units, Leman Russes getting Lumbering Behemoth back.
Chaos: Free soul blaze to all Chaos vehicle weapons, blend Oblits and Mutilators together so when shooting you pick what guns you want. And in cc pick what choppy smashy thing you want, and feel free to mix an match. More Heldrake weapon options, CHEAPER Daemon Princes points wise. Dreadaxe returned, Blend daemons and Chaos back together. Nerf Nurgle! Buff Tzeentch and Slaanesh! Chaos Razorbacks, Land Speeders, Stormbirds of all flavors, Land Raider variants, etc. Grav guns.
Also personally some Diaz daemonettes, and a Maulerfiend.
In general: Consolidate and simplify the special rules, make ordance scatter less often, buff sniping, get rid of or nerf overwatch, make only fleet creatures able to run, no random charges, pick warlord traits, and pick psychic powers instead of rolling. On rolls to go first make it warlord's initiative plus d6.
Model wise: more female models. Outside of Sisters it's a sausage fest.
Happyjew wrote: I can't be bothered to read through what everyone has said but here is what Eldar need:
Less hate.
More expensive Wraithknight
An open-topped transport
Less hate
Webway Portals. There is no reason for Dark Eldar (and possibly Corsairs) to have this technology and not Eldar. Who use the Webway Portal to appear out of nowhere and kill their enemies.
Less hate.
And Less D. And Less Scatter lasers. And less Jetbikes as troops.
Happyjew wrote: I can't be bothered to read through what everyone has said but here is what Eldar need:
Less hate.
More expensive Wraithknight
An open-topped transport
Less hate
Webway Portals. There is no reason for Dark Eldar (and possibly Corsairs) to have this technology and not Eldar. Who use the Webway Portal to appear out of nowhere and kill their enemies.
Less hate.
And Less D. And Less Scatter lasers. And less Jetbikes as troops.
I'll agree to no Jetbike troops as long as Space marines cannot take Bike squads as troops.
For my Eldar, I'd like more men on foot that are actually useful in a real-game situation.
Currently, that list has only one entry: Warp Spiders. There are 11 other footmen units in the army, and they're all garbage.
Is it that shocking that people are fielding Eldar armies with all Jetbikes/Spiders/Wraithknights? There's absolutely no internal balance here, don't expect external balance.
Bikes in general need toning down, they get an absurd number of bonuses over infantry for an increasingly small price premium.
On an SM 6pts gets you T5, 12" move, TL'd guns, relentless, Jink, and HoW hits. Likewise for Eldar, you get all of the above plus the benefits of being a Jetbike over a bike, an armor boost, and ridiculous heavy weapons access.
Bikes in general need to be more expensive and/or less capable, or changed altogether.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Drop Jink and HoW. Relentless only on attack bikes or other 'heavy' bikes if they pop up.
I know back in 3rd only the guns mounted on the bikes counted as stationary. With the rapid fire rules at the time, this made plasma kinda "meh" to use. If they went back to that it would go a long way to de-fang grav bikers.
Bikes have received a large number of buffs recently. They way GW moves what’s hot around, I’d not expect them to keep their top status forever.
As for keeping them FA/troops, that’s increasingly irrelevant in todays formation based game.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Yeah it's not like Marine bikes are toughness 5, and have access to grav guns, and atsknf and attack bikes with multi-meltas.
Scatbikes are still far superior.
Ehhhh no. Scatbikes are not that big of a deal. The problem is being able to take whole squads of them. I'm all for the 1 for every 3 option. But even then point for point marine bikers are better. I won't say far superior, but the versatility and addition of grav guns really makes them hard to top. And Eldar bikes are still T4 IIRC. Far easier to swat with the right weapons.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Yeah it's not like Marine bikes are toughness 5, and have access to grav guns, and atsknf and attack bikes with multi-meltas.
Scatbikes are still far superior.
Ehhhh no. Scatbikes are not that big of a deal. The problem is being able to take whole squads of them. I'm all for the 1 for every 3 option. But even then point for point marine bikers are better. I won't say far superior, but the versatility and addition of grav guns really makes them hard to top. And Eldar bikes are still T4 IIRC. Far easier to swat with the right weapons.
Range matters. A lot. And they do come in entire squads. So the ARE a big deal. Marine bikers that aren't White scars or Ravenwing are very manageable.
Meh grav guns drive me nuttier then scatbikers do. And again, bikes as troops should be a Ravenwing shtick only, and I'd be fine with jetbikes as troops being Saim-Han's shtick.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Meh grav guns drive me nuttier then scatbikers do. And again, bikes as troops should be a Ravenwing shtick only, and I'd be fine with jetbikes as troops being Saim-Han's shtick.
Regular grav guns aren't even that great. Scatterlasers are WAY more dangerous.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Meh grav guns drive me nuttier then scatbikers do. And again, bikes as troops should be a Ravenwing shtick only, and I'd be fine with jetbikes as troops being Saim-Han's shtick.
Except Marine bikers can take two Grav guns per squad. And that is it. Windriders can load the entire squad up with scatter lasers. Scatter lasers have better range, twice as many shots, and higher strength. Scatter bikes are better in every way than Grav bikes.
Oh, do I have a wishlist for my Tyranids:
-An HQ that would compete with the Flyrant (actually if the codex were fixed, then Flyrants could take a bit of a nerf)
-Warriors get a point decrease or move to T5
-A widely available upgrade that mimics offensive grenades
-A way to get our cc only units to cc -Genestealers need to be given permanent stealth or assault out of outflank again, or something to make them just not suck
-longer range guns, oh boy do we need some longer range firepower, especially if they're going to keep pushing this game away from assault
-a more reliable way to use warp lance
-Pyrovores should have Torrent.....or something....I'd love to see these rise above completely useless
and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll be able to add more later
Battlesong wrote: Oh, do I have a wishlist for my Tyranids:
-An HQ that would compete with the Flyrant (actually if the codex were fixed, then Flyrants could take a bit of a nerf)
-Warriors get a point decrease or move to T5
-A widely available upgrade that mimics offensive grenades
-A way to get our cc only units to cc -Genestealers need to be given permanent stealth or assault out of outflank again, or something to make them just not suck
-longer range guns, oh boy do we need some longer range firepower, especially if they're going to keep pushing this game away from assault
-a more reliable way to use warp lance
-Pyrovores should have Torrent.....or something....I'd love to see these rise above completely useless
and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll be able to add more later
I agree with most of this, but realize that most long range firepower in the game now sucks because of ROF issues.
CSM: Has been said numerous times, so I agree with all of them.
KDK: Have the STR D bloodthirster strike at initiative. Otherwise I'm actually cool with that codex.
Daemons: Some way to assault from reserves, seeing as it's the new hotness. If we had that, then I am satisfied along with the new formations, powers, etc.
Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate
You're removed 1/2 of the problem! We will reduce hate by 1/2!
Whats left to hate?
Btw - really selfish but I hope the bikes remain at 1/1 heavy weapons if only because I don't have to shell out for 36 more bikes!
D weapon spam I think is most of the other half.
When I build my modern bike squad, I used magnets. My two old ones I just built 1-3 with shuricannons, but those were a trickier conversion. I figured the all HW bikes would not survive to the next codex. Sometimes things do get adjusted. Hope so, at least.
Martel732 wrote: Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.
And bounce off power and terminator armor like rain drops. Real power there. It has checks and balances.
Power armor and terminator actually can't save you from wound spam. That's the whols point of wound spam.
Terminator armour is 2 times as likely to save the wound in comparison to regular power armour. When you look at the price tag and realize that a Terminator costs more than 2 PA marines you realize that point for point TDA is weaker in soaking wounds.
Martel732 wrote: Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.
And bounce off power and terminator armor like rain drops. Real power there. It has checks and balances.
Power armor and terminator actually can't save you from wound spam. That's the whols point of wound spam.
Terminator armour is 2 times as likely to save the wound in comparison to regular power armour. When you look at the price tag and realize that a Terminator costs more than 2 PA marines you realize that point for point TDA is weaker in soaking wounds.
Terminator armor would only be useful is AP 3 were super common.
Eldar: I’d make the Phoenix Lords a little cheaper to see them played more because they are just cool as hell. Updates for these guys would be more along the lines of newer plastic kits for the majority of the aspects and then one or two other things like more expensive wraithknights, jetbikes to be nerfed back a little.
Tau: Would love to see the Kroot, Vespid and other allied aliens getting some love but this would be low on my list of updates.
Necrons: the C’tan would benefit from non–random powers. A newer kit for the Flayed ones would be nice. I hated the old scarab rules for entropic strike but actually miss them now, even if they kept it as a 6+ to lower armour value. That little threat was always a great unique necron twist.
Dark Angels: Maybe sort the Deathwing to have a formation to bring these guys back, nothing ravenwing power wise but something, otherwise solid.
Sisters: ...
Chaos: It's hard to know where to even start. The Daemons I feel should be dealt with separately like Khorne and then a unified Book Chaos: Traitor Legions to give a Chapter tactics style feel. New units, new kits, new everything. All veterans of the long war should have fearless in my opinion.
Orks: Army wide Feel No Pain but with a twist, if in combat and they pass they gain an extra attack for the next round, if shot at and they pass they either gain relentless or a better BS maybe? Just a thought, these guys seriously need some love and some hella fun rules.
Tyranids: Need more variety and threat value. Fluffwise amazing, tabletop...
Dark Eldar: I find it laughable how their Craftworld cousins get battle focus and these guys don’t. If anything it should be the other way round or just give these guys battle focus. They should play like their fluff and there was a rumours post a while back saying they’d be getting an update at the end of this year that sounded way too good to be true but I think it actually made sense. Wyches should be horrible in close combat not weapon wise but forcing you to make a hell of a lot of saves. Helions should have a special (better) hit and run. Raiders should be free or very very cheap. Would love to see their jetbikes be made crazy annoying. And for the love of god Bring BACK VECT AND the other special characters, with models haha.
Blood Angels: My true love. I feel like these are the only Space Marines that suck currently. Furioso’s are the worst Dreads in the game. Dreadnoughts need a serious overhaul generally. Either make them 50/60 points or MC’s like the dreadknight (3+ save only with a 5++). Bring Back the assault game. Assault marines as troops and a means to drop in and assault straight away even if its just hammer of wrath attacks. Descent of Angels all the time. DC for me need some aura effect rules a bit like the wulfen have gotten. Sanguinary Guard need to be super bad ass, they should lower leadership of enemy not cause fear, more attacks, WS5, higher initiative with the axes.
- Points reduction on just about every unit in the codex.
- Vox casters need unlimited range. Its 40k. They have radio equipment that can't reach across a football field, but we have primitive radios that can reach halfway across the planet? Yeah...
- 33% pt reduction on Ogryn/Bullgryn. Making Ogryn/Bullgryn/Rough Riders an actual functional dedicated counter assault unit so we have one in the codex... Keep saves as is, Increase leadership, 4+ FNP, Ripper Guns +1S/Rending, Power Mauls +2S as normal but replace concussive with something not worthless.
- Conscripts as a troop choice & not tied to platoon.
- (x)% pts reduction on all leman russ, all baneblade variants. Bring lumbering behemoth back. Make armor not terrible. All baneblade variants added to the normal codex. LoW choice.
- (x)% pts reduction on stormtroopers. Make them actual shock troops, effective at clearing objectives. Right now they are priced at space marine cost, with guard statline. Hotshots are way overrated. Need buffs/changes.
- (x)% pts reduction on Commissar Yarrick. His survivability/melee is on par with the lore, but his tactical genius/presence is not. He currently offers little to those surrounding him on the battlefield & should have a special rule that reflects the lore.
- 33% pt reduction on heavy weapons teams.
- Orders need to not be terrible. Orders need to be able to effect infantry + tanks, regardless of commander chosen but a few special ones available to tank commanders.
- 20% pts reduction to chimera. Was raised in pts to sell Taurox models. Completely unnecessary.
- Make guardsmen not terrible. Currently a tax on the army. Cost to much for what they do not do. This can be accomplished either by fixing orders, or lower the pt cost further to reflect the "supposed" most plentiful weapon in the IG arsenal: bodies.
- 5-10pt reduction on sentinel/armor sentinels.
These are just the immediate changes that come to mind...last time I looked there was a 70 page thread on all the issues IG have.
What I would be super happy to see for the Guard is multiple unique force org charts that allow you to represent scout regiments, mechanized regiments, and so on.
I'd also give the Shadowsword some sort of rule to reflect its "titan-killer" fluff. +1 on the D table against SH/GC, like the Chaos Knight?
More tank orders.
Straken becomes an IC.
Chimeras either get more fire points or drop back to 55 points.
Beast Hunter Shells in the main 'dex.
Get rid of the requirement to take a squadron member for a tank commander. Unfluffy.
An order to shoot in melee combat, nothing says the Korps quite like something like it. And that IG order that lets my Earthshakers ignore cover, that'd be pretty sweet.
Scions need better guns and customization options.
Edit: Personally, I could do with removing close combat altogether, but somehow I doubt it'll be a popular idea.
Bobthehero wrote: An order to shoot in melee combat, nothing says the Korps quite like something like it. And that IG order that lets my Earthshakers ignore cover, that'd be pretty sweet.
Scions need better guns and customization options.
Edit: Personally, I could do with removing close combat altogether, but somehow I doubt it'll be a popular idea.
I'd be cool with allowing IG to shoot into melee under orders with these conditions:
1. They are snapshots
2. Rolls of "1" hit friendly targets instead.
A re release of the 4th codex Seriously I just read it again today and it is great . Lots of buffs lots of special rules. 7th to 4th edition codex feels like the buff we needed for years.
1) Fliers: A) Razorwing: Full AA style, TL-lance, Non Blast Missiles B) Bomber: Str D Lances and Bomb Str D
2) Vect and a formation with him
3) More Formations
4) Cheaper Vehicle upgrades
5) Wyches: Cant be overwatched and Assault Nades
Warriors 4+ Armor (all other codex's are 4+)
6) LOTS of units needs to be cheaper, Hellions, Incubi, Wracks, etc.. etc...
Tyranids: IMO Most important to least important
1) All the formations and units redone in 1 book not 7+
2) All MC much cheaper!!!! If you dont know what Im talking about compare a Trygon/Tyrgon Prime and a Carnifex with ALL other Codex's units of ANY similar type...
3) Synapse HURTS, this is one of the worst things in the book, You want gants to hold and Objective? Nope you need synapse! Want your over costed Carnifex to charge? Well its not in synpase so it eats itself!
4) Can only take Tyranid Powers
5) Upgrades are way over costed
6) Redundant units. We dont need 3 different types of warriors.... A warrior should just have Upgrades that say: "3pts Model all models must be upgrade, Warriors gain Beast" or "wings/Jump"
We have a Haruspex, Carnifex, Trygon, Trygon Prime. They all have the same job.
7) Trygon Prime = GMC with the same Point cost of 240
8) Warrior Prime should be 50pts cheaper
9) Gants (and H-gants) need a Synapse Sargent upgrade for low points
10) Zoans speical Rule should add BS +1 for EACH Zoan in the unit
10) Almost everything needs to be cheaper
1) Fliers: A) Razorwing: Full AA style, TL-lance, Non Blast Missiles B) Bomber: Str D Lances and Bomb Str D
2) Vect and a formation with him
3) More Formations
4) Cheaper Vehicle upgrades
5) Wyches: Cant be overwatched and Assault Nades
Warriors 4+ Armor (all other codex's are 4+)
6) LOTS of units needs to be cheaper, Hellions, Incubi, Wracks, etc.. etc...
1. The bomb Strength D is fine, but Strength D lances? Ha, no.
Warriors should stay at a 5+. They are your basic infantry, and are supposed to be squishy.
A new codex and some love from GW. Orks are iconic as they get, and we could conceivably be the best in sales if the damn game supported even a mid-tier codex like it did back in 4th and 5th.
I would love to see walkers of the non-superheavy variant (i.e. dreads) be able to claim 'in ruins' and similar saves w/o needing to be obscured. That is all (then my 10 dread BA list might actually not suck )
Mulletdude wrote: I would love to see walkers of the non-superheavy variant (i.e. dreads) be able to claim 'in ruins' and similar saves w/o needing to be obscured. That is all (then my 10 dread BA list might actually not suck )
1) cheaper upgrade for eavy armor
2) cheaper regular nobz
3) slightly cheaper power klaw
4) return of the looted wagon as a punchy tank
5) eavy armor available for stormboyz (they look more armored than regular boys in my opinon) and flash gitz
6) rending on the mega shoota of the gorkanaut and large blast for the morkanaut mega blasta (new ultra blasta?), both considered Superhavy vehicule for the purpose of explosion results
7) Ghazghkull strikes at init with his power claw
8) plastic model for warboss
Dark Eldar
1) grenades, bloodstone (str 3 AP 3 template weapon) and counterattack for Incubi
2) +1 attack for basic Wych, dodge replaced by 5+ invulnerable save; +1 WS to bloodbride dodge replaced by 4+ invulnerable save; Siren squad leader WS: 6 and W: 2; Succubus dodge replaced by 3+ invulnerable save; Lelith wounds on 4+ or better. Point cost increase appropriate
3) Drachon +1 WS, BS and W
4) Void Raven and Razorwing jet gain vector dancer
5) Ravager gain back the ability to shoot all their weapon at combat speed
6) Decurion style formations
Millitarum Tempestus
1) point discount on Scions and Taurox Prime
2) option for Vendetta and Valkyrie Prime
3) Tempestor prime with WS and BS 5
4) option for a Tauros from FW 5) A furious charge order instead of Crusader
6) option for extra close combat weapon on Tempestus Scion Squad
7) Command squad Scions have +1 WS 8) Stealth on all infantry choices excluding Commissar
9) Commissar gain option to give orders to their squad only.
1) Fliers: A) Razorwing: Full AA style, TL-lance, Non Blast Missiles B) Bomber: Str D Lances and Bomb Str D
2) Vect and a formation with him
3) More Formations
4) Cheaper Vehicle upgrades
5) Wyches: Cant be overwatched and Assault Nades
Warriors 4+ Armor (all other codex's are 4+)
6) LOTS of units needs to be cheaper, Hellions, Incubi, Wracks, etc.. etc...
1. The bomb Strength D is fine, but Strength D lances? Ha, no.
Warriors should stay at a 5+. They are your basic infantry, and are supposed to be squishy.
Fire warriors 4+, Tyranids Warriors 4+, Scouts 4+ etc.. etc.. etc... Ever troop or unit named "warrior" or other on bar with Kabalite are 4+, Kabalites are the only ones that are 5+.
And so its ok for Eldar to have Distort flamers and amazing D weapons but not 1 DE, then make it just Str D, either way the Bomber is WAY over costed Either give it Guns to make it worth it or lower the Razorwing+Bomber by 40-60pts at least. I would only take the Bomber if it was 100pts honestly.
Why take them when I can take the Flying Eldar formation as an Ally for my DE? They are cheaper and better in every way.
The bomber IF you add any missiles to it is the same cost of a Storm Raven.
Storm Raven:
Av 12
Power of the Machine Sprint (so even if it Jinks it can still fire 1 at full BS)
Cerimite Plate
4 (non Blast) Missiles
Assault Transport (12 models even)
Tl- Assault Cannon
Tl-Bolter
Can take/Replace for Melta/Las for Free (FREE)
Bomber (with missiles so its as close to a SR as can)
AV 10
2 Lances (can be small blasts)
Missiles (that are ALL Blasts)
Night Vision (if you get turn one this is Pointless as it cant be used turn 1)
Supersonic (It might be good once every few games)
*Can take Night Shields (Gives Stealth) But once it jinks then its useless for 1 turn sense you cant Snap Shot blasts and its not TL Lances
What one would you take for 200pts? Remember, Bolters... YES BOLTERS can Shoot he Bomber out of the Sky, and Ive seen it happen.
Amishprn86 wrote: Dark Eldar: IMO Most important to least important 5) Wyches: Cant be overwatched and Assault Nades
You do realize that Plasma Grenades are assault grenades, right?
Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate
You're removed 1/2 of the problem! We will reduce hate by 1/2!
Whats left to hate?
Off the top of my head: Warp Spiders and D-weapons all over the list like a rash.
Commissar Benny wrote:IG:
- Points reduction on just about every unit in the codex.
- Vox casters need unlimited range. Its 40k. They have radio equipment that can't reach across a football field, but we have primitive radios that can reach halfway across the planet? Yeah...
- 33% pt reduction on Ogryn/Bullgryn. Making Ogryn/Bullgryn/Rough Riders an actual functional dedicated counter assault unit so we have one in the codex... Keep saves as is, Increase leadership, 4+ FNP, Ripper Guns +1S/Rending, Power Mauls +2S as normal but replace concussive with something not worthless.
- Conscripts as a troop choice & not tied to platoon.
- (x)% pts reduction on all leman russ, all baneblade variants. Bring lumbering behemoth back. Make armor not terrible. All baneblade variants added to the normal codex. LoW choice.
- (x)% pts reduction on stormtroopers. Make them actual shock troops, effective at clearing objectives. Right now they are priced at space marine cost, with guard statline. Hotshots are way overrated. Need buffs/changes.
- (x)% pts reduction on Commissar Yarrick. His survivability/melee is on par with the lore, but his tactical genius/presence is not. He currently offers little to those surrounding him on the battlefield & should have a special rule that reflects the lore.
- 33% pt reduction on heavy weapons teams.
- Orders need to not be terrible. Orders need to be able to effect infantry + tanks, regardless of commander chosen but a few special ones available to tank commanders.
- 20% pts reduction to chimera. Was raised in pts to sell Taurox models. Completely unnecessary.
- Make guardsmen not terrible. Currently a tax on the army. Cost to much for what they do not do. This can be accomplished either by fixing orders, or lower the pt cost further to reflect the "supposed" most plentiful weapon in the IG arsenal: bodies.
- 5-10pt reduction on sentinel/armor sentinels.
These are just the immediate changes that come to mind...last time I looked there was a 70 page thread on all the issues IG have.
So, I don't know what your meta is like, but in mine orders are amazing. They add so much functionality to IG infantry it's not even funny.
I don't necessarily disagree with you on the Lumbering Behemoth thing, as my Leman Russes have battle cannons and three heavy bolters, but if the IG have that rule, there's literally no reason to have any rules subjecting a penalty on a vehicle's shooting of other weapons if it also fired an ordnance weapon that turn, because only the IG have vehicles that mount both ordnance and significant other weaponry. The next most common ordnance weapon vehicle is the Vindicator, which can pack a grand total of 2 storm bolters in addition to its demolisher cannon.
So, I suspect the problem with the IG isn't so much the codex as the meta. My group plays with a 40% Troops house rule, and all our games are extremely tight. I play against an IG player with regularity with my Dark Angels, and our games are extremely tight.
