More start collecting boxed sets - Preorders on June 11, June 18 and June 25

Also three flyer boxed games incoming



*Update*

- Third week (Preorder June 25) -

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Worst formation ever.

The formation benefit can be summarized as "OR bring a Sanguinary Priest and get a much better benefit."

Cephalobeard wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/qoKX2

Start Collecting! Blood angels and new flyer sets

More Eldar releases and the rumored (by Sad Panda) flyer game?

Warhams-77 wrote:
White Dwarf teaser

Photo: BOLS

- Second week -

zamerion wrote:
Thanks to archibald_tk on warseer:

In case that wasn't already mentioned:

- Start Collecting Eldar (3 Jetbikes, 1 Farseer on Bike, 1 Fireprism)
- Start Collecting Dark Eldar (3 Reavers, 1 Raider, 10 Warriors, 1 Archon)

The week after hints at even more pointy ears, without precising for what system.

 pretre wrote:

- First week -

Warhams-77 wrote:
Tempestus formation rules - via Shocker3800 on B&C

shocker3800, on 15 Jun 2016 - 1:24 PM, said:

Found this floating around https://imgur.com/a/cMUkC

DaPino wrote:

Dubovac

We have Start collecting: Chaos space marines and Start collecting: Militarum tempestus in two-three weeks from now.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/693093.page#8698729

Wulfson_40K

AFAIK we shall be able to see the new Start Collecting boxes when we finally receive our WD, preorders at the end of the week. So sooner than what was already mentioned.

They are indeed Tempestus and CSM.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/693093.page#8700541


Also a teaser for the week after

Aracersss

next week teaser: "Way of the Eldar" ... Oh boy!!!!!!!!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/693093.page#8700642



Pictures of the new Start Collecting sets - Preorder: June 11

Warhams-77 wrote:
Via War of Sigmar

Update #1:

Faeit 212


El Ploplo on warhammer-forum.com

Bon, pas de grosse nouveauté dans le White Dwarf de ce week-end qui parlera essentiellement de Lost Patrol. Néanmoins le teaser pour la semaine suivante m'a surpris puisqu'il annonce "Voie de l'Eldar"...

http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=218300&page=76#entry2926236



Update #2:

Chikout wrote:
Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

Update #3:

The Eldar Sketch-book is currently only available in a few Uk shops (as part of anniversary festivities)

 ImAGeek wrote:
As I've said many times in this thread now, GW Portsmouth were selling it for their anniversary the weekend just gone. It appears to be, at this stage anyway, limited edition for stores when their anniversary is.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Source: GW - via BOLS

GW Hull (Facebook)

“If you haven’t already heard, it’s the stores 26th anniversary on Saturday 25th June.

There are some exciting products available on the day to celebrate and today I’ll be showing off just one of them that will be available!

The Eldar Sketchbook is a tome of sketches and drawings of Games Workshop artwork and features never before seen sketches by Jes Goodwin. If you’re a fan of any of the artwork produced by Games Workshop then this book is for you!

If you’re interested in getting your hands on one of these very exclusive books then be at at the store early on June 25th!”

WD Eldar Teaser

Warhams-77 wrote:
English WD teaser - by Scanner on the SpikeyBits forum

Well, here's hoping that the Tempestus box has a Taurox in it. If so, I think that's a box I'd be willing to purchase. The real question though, will be what vehicle will be packed with the Eldar set.

A Taurox would make it a must-buy for me

Way of the Eldar could be something different than a Start Collecting box though. There is no info atm.

Bizarre...

So, chances are that the Tempestus will be another boxed set with the plastic commissar then. Plus probably ten Storm Troopers and a Taurox, I guess a Valkyrie kit is too big for that type of box.

Any guesses on what the CSM box will have? I wouldn't mind the fiend kit being the big stand out in it. Plus, what could the formation be? Ooo excitment!

I got my Scions army back during a Warstore Black Friday sale so I won't feel too bad about any potential lost savings here, but more Star Collecting boxes is always a good thing!

Probably the overpriced champion blister, a box of regular marines and one of the newer vehicle kits.

I'm in need of a few basics to shore up my Tempestus, this box should be a nice value for me. I doubt there's anything I've not got plenty of in the CSM box but the more the merrier; hopefully it's a good value proposition for folks just starting with CSM.

Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

Reprinting some of the stuff from The Gothic and The Eldritch would be welcome for so many people out there. Not to mention how much new stuff has been designed since then...

Chikout wrote:
Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

Definitely. I've been wanting to make a little Craftworld detachment to ride with my Kabal, I've got the fluff all typed out and everything. A nice Start Collecting box would kickstart that project for sure.

Chikout wrote:
Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

The GW near me (Portsmouth) were also selling that but it was only for 1 day for an anniversary. Limited edition. I imagine its the same.

I just checked and yeah its for their anniversary on the 25th June.

More SC is always great. Filling them with ugly and/or overpriced clampack heros and ancient kits that should long be replaced, not so much. We'll see about those.

Could someone (good enough in) french please help us with a translation? Is it a guess or the box contents?

http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=218300&page=76#entry2926533

Elyar at WarFo

J'ai apperçu une liste des sorties de cette semaine sur les réseaux sociaux (ça vaut ce que ça vaut mais rien de déconnant) et à côté de Lost Patrol devraient arriver deux start collecting.
 
La première pour les SMC contiendrait le seigneur Termite plastique, un kit de SMC et un hellbrute.
 
La seconde pour le Militarum Tempestus contiendrait deux kits de Scions et un Taurox.
 
Et la phrase d'accroche pour la semaine d'après serait "La voie de l'Eldar".
 
En espérant ne pas vous dire de bêtises.

Something like:

Terminator Lord, 10 CSM, Helbrute
Two Scions boxes, 1 Taurox

Warp Rider wrote:
Any guesses on what the CSM box will have?

It will be basically the same as the SM box but more expensive for some reason.

I have waited a CSM start collection. Then new codex and maybe I would buy a rules too. Now I just paint and read Horus Heresy books.

Chikout wrote:
Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

That would be fantastic- love Jes' sketches and it would be a great source book. Hadn't thought of start collecting boxes for all the eldar factions- that would fit the Way of the Eldar better than just one for the craft world faction. Still would love plastic aspects but thats more likely to be alongside a Biel- Tan expansion you'd think.

Start Collecting Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and a compilation of WD articles/sketches book? Would be great, really. Fingers-crossed!

The Eldar sketchbook is limited edition for stores anniversaries.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Start Collecting Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and a compilation of WD articles/sketches book? Would be great, really. Fingers-crossed!

Yeah just saw a pic of the cover on twitter- Eldar Sketchbook -looks class!!! Has a pic of Jes' farseer on the cover- the shops must have got them early as part of a special event, I am so buying that...

Warhams-77 wrote:
Could someone (good enough in) french please help us with a translation? Is it a guess or the box contents?

http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=218300&page=76#entry2926533

Elyar at WarFo

J'ai apperçu une liste des sorties de cette semaine sur les réseaux sociaux (ça vaut ce que ça vaut mais rien de déconnant) et à côté de Lost Patrol devraient arriver deux start collecting.
 
La première pour les SMC contiendrait le seigneur Termite plastique, un kit de SMC et un hellbrute.
 
La seconde pour le Militarum Tempestus contiendrait deux kits de Scions et un Taurox.
 
Et la phrase d'accroche pour la semaine d'après serait "La voie de l'Eldar".
 
En espérant ne pas vous dire de bêtises.

Something like:

Terminator Lord, 10 CSM, Helbrute
Two Scions boxes, 1 Taurox

That would make sense to put it on par with the Space Marine box although personally I would rather have a fiend :-(

Would have rather seen the finecrap sorcerer or the champion even. You get the plastic terminator lord with every csm big box. I have like 5 of them now.

So no Commander/third item in the Stormy box? What a rip!

There is a Commisar in the Tempestus set

Quoting Retconned Legion on B&C - but this was posted by several sources from different countries

Retconned Legion, on 07 Jun 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:
The contents of the Start Collecting boxes are:
Tempestus Scions - 10 Scions, Plastic Commissar and a Taurox
Chaos Space Marines - Terminator Lord, 10 Chaos Space Marines and a Helbrute.

This is direct from my trade rep.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the Tempestus box are four items, 2x Scions (5 men)

This eldar sketchbook, will it be a limited run? Really want one but won't be in Europe until July.

Release of the book on June 25 - rumored to be a limited edition, special event release. No confirmations atm

Image of book cover - from Twitter via War of Sigmar

It's just a release for the store because its their anniversary (for now at least). Portsmouth GW did the same the weekend just gone. The same products available there too.

Lost Patrol is only US 60?

If the MT box is 10 Scions, a commissar and a Taurox that ends up being a huge savings. $67 Cad savings in fact

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
If the MT box is 10 Scions, a commissar and a Taurox that ends up being a huge savings. $67 Cad savings in fact

It would be great but even just 10 scions and a taurox would be good value. Get 2-3 and you have yourself the makings of an affordable MT army.

I'm really curious to see what the formations are.

What do y'all want to bet they're garbage like all the SC formations for the designated garbage factions have been so far?

I love the idea of two brand new players picking up two start collecting boxes and going

"ok timmy lets look at our special rules"

"I'm excited jimmy! Looks like my special rule is... if you destroy one of my units and my lord is still alive, the entire unit comes back to life instantly! What'd you get!'

"A cover save...for my one infantry squad if they're near my tank."

the_scotsman wrote:
"A cover save...for my one infantry squad if they're near my tank."

So optimistic! Just needs "and its the first time they've been shot at"

 Vankraken wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
If the MT box is 10 Scions, a commissar and a Taurox that ends up being a huge savings. $67 Cad savings in fact

It would be great but even just 10 scions and a taurox would be good value. Get 2-3 and you have yourself the makings of an affordable MT army.

And like everything else Chaos Marines get, our box is crap...
We save barely $42, and having those crusty, ancient old sculpts in there means that we're probably not going to get any update of our basic kit, despite the fact that most of our line is still from the early 2000's.

Oh well, at least it's something else I won't be buying...

God dammit GW, could you not have waiting on a CSM 'Start Collecting!' set until those new Thousand Sons later this year!??
Seriously, if they'd just waited, and given us a box that was say 5x new plastic 1kSons + Hellbrute + Possessed + Cultists, I'd have bought 3 of 'em!



Biggest disappointment here is seeing the gaking fugly old basic Marines screwing up the box. They desperately need replacing, but now, that's almost certainly never going to happen.
They may as well have put Khorne Berserkers into the box at this point!

the_scotsman wrote:
I'm really curious to see what the formations are.

What do y'all want to bet they're garbage like all the SC formations for the designated garbage factions have been so far?

I love the idea of two brand new players picking up two start collecting boxes and going

"ok timmy lets look at our special rules"

"I'm excited jimmy! Looks like my special rule is... if you destroy one of my units and my lord is still alive, the entire unit comes back to life instantly! What'd you get!'

"A cover save...for my one infantry squad if they're near my tank."

To be fair, if you're simply balancing games with SC formations?

The IG one isn't bad if you're simply playing SC formations. There's nothing beyond the Tau SC Crisis Team and/or Fire Warriors getting Markerlights or the Marines with Flamers/Orks with Skorchas that will have Ignores Cover

I would assume that "Start Collecting" boxes are intended to be purchased as the start of a collection and played against each other by new players (sorry, collectors, model company not a game company which is why these model collection bundles dont...come with...rules? hmm.)

Of course, like a microcosm of the game itself, these boxes are all gameplay, points, and (weirdly enough) FINANCIALLY imbalanced in terms of the savings you get. Compare SC: Skiitari, Marines or Necrons to SC: Orks or Guard. (And I'll bet a shiny nickel you'll see the same thing with MT and CSM)

The only prayer you'd have if you chose SC: Guard or Orks would be to buy optimized units to add and get to an even points value with your opponent and insert them in as unbound.

I can never understand why GW don't just publish concept art/sketchbook collections on a regular basis(either one JB and one Jes, alternating, every couple of years with all their presentable output, or per-faction as and when they get updated).

I'll bet any "losses" they suffered to people converting their own versions or going for third-party emulations of the art would be more than offset by sales of the books themselves.

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's just a release for the store because its their anniversary (for now at least). Portsmouth GW did the same the weekend just gone. The same products available there too.

It's 25th anniversary for Gw stores in general right, not those particular locations?

At least that's what it sounded like when I read some of the sources reporting this. Any idea what they are charging for the book?

Damnit, I want this......

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I can never understand why GW don't just publish concept art/sketchbook collections on a regular basis(either one JB and one Jes, alternating, every couple of years with all their presentable output, or per-faction as and when they get updated).

I'll bet any "losses" they suffered to people converting their own versions or going for third-party emulations of the art would be more than offset by sales of the books themselves.

Theu would certainly get my money.

the_scotsman wrote:
I would assume that "Start Collecting" boxes are intended to be purchased as the start of a collection and played against each other by new players (sorry, collectors, model company not a game company which is why these model collection bundles dont...come with...rules? hmm.)

Literally every start collecting box comes with rules.

Each of them is their own unique formation.

I think that was the point of his joke

So has anyone seen the art book yet? Is it just a reprint of Gothic Eldritch? I'd like to buy it if it's not impossible to find like many of their other limited releases.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
If the MT box is 10 Scions, a commissar and a Taurox that ends up being a huge savings. $67 Cad savings in fact

It would be great but even just 10 scions and a taurox would be good value. Get 2-3 and you have yourself the makings of an affordable MT army.

And like everything else Chaos Marines get, our box is crap...
We save barely $42, and having those crusty, ancient old sculpts in there means that we're probably not going to get any update of our basic kit, despite the fact that most of our line is still from the early 2000's.

Oh well, at least it's something else I won't be buying...

God dammit GW, could you not have waiting on a CSM 'Start Collecting!' set until those new Thousand Sons later this year!??
Seriously, if they'd just waited, and given us a box that was say 5x new plastic 1kSons + Hellbrute + Possessed + Cultists, I'd have bought 3 of 'em!



Biggest disappointment here is seeing the gaking fugly old basic Marines screwing up the box. They desperately need replacing, but now, that's almost certainly never going to happen.
They may as well have put Khorne Berserkers into the box at this point!

As a rule of thumb these boxes are OLD models rather than new ones. They don't want to discount sell the new models until they have been able to sell lots of them for higher price...

But yeah. Not surprising standard macro chaos whine started here...as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
I would assume that "Start Collecting" boxes are intended to be purchased as the start of a collection and played against each other by new players (sorry, collectors, model company not a game company which is why these model collection bundles dont...come with...rules? hmm.)

Of course, like a microcosm of the game itself, these boxes are all gameplay, points, and (weirdly enough) FINANCIALLY imbalanced in terms of the savings you get. Compare SC: Skiitari, Marines or Necrons to SC: Orks or Guard. (And I'll bet a shiny nickel you'll see the same thing with MT and CSM)

The only prayer you'd have if you chose SC: Guard or Orks would be to buy optimized units to add and get to an even points value with your opponent and insert them in as unbound.

Has GW ever ever EVER released starting boxes of any kind where armies would even remotely be balanced against each other? AOS starter set might be about only one.

fb 5th ed nope. 8th ed hell no. 6th/7th don't recall well but don't think so.

40k 3rd ed was joke(dark eldars could literally not hurt the land speeder...Invincible unit!). 4th ed don't recall well. 5th nope. 6th nope.

number9dream wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's just a release for the store because its their anniversary (for now at least). Portsmouth GW did the same the weekend just gone. The same products available there too.

It's 25th anniversary for Gw stores in general right, not those particular locations?

At least that's what it sounded like when I read some of the sources reporting this. Any idea what they are charging for the book?

Damnit, I want this......

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I can never understand why GW don't just publish concept art/sketchbook collections on a regular basis(either one JB and one Jes, alternating, every couple of years with all their presentable output, or per-faction as and when they get updated).

I'll bet any "losses" they suffered to people converting their own versions or going for third-party emulations of the art would be more than offset by sales of the books themselves.

Theu would certainly get my money.

I think it's each location, because Pompeys was the weekend just gone, and Hulls is the 25th June.

Militarium Tempestus in general are a good army
Especially when you issue the order that gives their Hot-Shot Lasguns the Sniper rule...

100% a buy from me, due to the savings
You could even buy them to use them as Inquisitorial Henchmen...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ill be picking up the Militarium Tempestus box
Not for Militarum Tempestus, but for Inquisition (the Inquisition codex even says that using Stormtroopers (of which Militarum Tempestus replaced) make good models for Acolytes

If I had a use for a fourth Taurox (or Taurox in general really..) I'd be all over that Tempestus boxed set.

tneva82 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
If the MT box is 10 Scions, a commissar and a Taurox that ends up being a huge savings. $67 Cad savings in fact

It would be great but even just 10 scions and a taurox would be good value. Get 2-3 and you have yourself the makings of an affordable MT army.

And like everything else Chaos Marines get, our box is crap...
We save barely $42, and having those crusty, ancient old sculpts in there means that we're probably not going to get any update of our basic kit, despite the fact that most of our line is still from the early 2000's.

Oh well, at least it's something else I won't be buying...

God dammit GW, could you not have waiting on a CSM 'Start Collecting!' set until those new Thousand Sons later this year!??
Seriously, if they'd just waited, and given us a box that was say 5x new plastic 1kSons + Hellbrute + Possessed + Cultists, I'd have bought 3 of 'em!



Biggest disappointment here is seeing the gaking fugly old basic Marines screwing up the box. They desperately need replacing, but now, that's almost certainly never going to happen.
They may as well have put Khorne Berserkers into the box at this point!

As a rule of thumb these boxes are OLD models rather than new ones. They don't want to discount sell the new models until they have been able to sell lots of them for higher price...

But yeah. Not surprising standard macro chaos whine started here...as well.

Not to get the violin out for chaos marines, but you are aware that the Tyranids box has none of their oldest sculpts, the Tau box has only their latest sculpts in, the space marine box forgoes their oldest troops choice to provide you with the latest tactical squad box. There is no compulsion on GW's part to include old miniatures at all, the evidence actually points to the contrary.

But yeah the standard chaos marines do need a face lift, I'd rather have seen yet more cultists in there.

Chikout wrote:
Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

Some part of me is dying at us now using GW Hull as a source for anything.

Dudeface wrote:
[qNot to get the violin out for chaos marines, but you are aware that the Tyranids box has none of their oldest sculpts, the Tau box has only their latest sculpts in, the space marine box forgoes their oldest troops choice to provide you with the latest tactical squad box. There is no compulsion on GW's part to include old miniatures at all, the evidence actually points to the contrary.

But yeah the standard chaos marines do need a face lift, I'd rather have seen yet more cultists in there.

Pretty sure those tyranid models weren't released within year of start collecting box. And when was space marine tac box released?

He's asking for brand new sculpts right off the bat. So far only tau has got that...

I'm not saying they are putting only 10 year old sculpts but if new tsons are coming say fall expecting start collecting box within year with those is...optimistic.

And just because there's start collecting chaos now doesn't mean there can't be tzeentch based later. Duh.

So guess it would be better to have start collecting box say 2 year later then to get the tsons instead. Yeah that works.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Gw Hull posted on their twitter account that a book full of eldar sketches is coming. That must be part of it. A start collecting box for each eldar faction would also be nice.

Some part of me is dying at us now using GW Hull as a source for anything.

They're a fine source for this, as the Eldar book is available there on the 25th June as a limited edition product for their anniversary. It doesn't seem to be a general release thing, just an anniversary product for stores, at this stage anyway.

Barzam wrote:Well, here's hoping that the Tempestus box has a Taurox in it. If so, I think that's a box I'd be willing to purchase. The real question though, will be what vehicle will be packed with the Eldar set.

Warp Rider wrote:Any guesses on what the CSM box will have? I wouldn't mind the fiend kit being the big stand out in it. Plus, what could the formation be? Ooo excitment!

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/06/gw-new-start-collecting-boxes-spotted.html

New Commisar for the AM, a Taurux and some guards men.

10 CSM, Terminator Captian and a Helbrte. Sorry got to go, will retype later.

The CSM box also includes a chaos familiar apparently? The list says 12 models, so it must be a special rule or something....
Also, really dig the fact that it mirrors the SM one.

Neronoxx wrote:
The CSM box also includes a chaos familiar apparently? The list says 12 models, so it must be a special rule or something....
Also, really dig the fact that it mirrors the SM one.

The Terminator Lord comes with a familiar:

Neronoxx wrote:
The CSM box also includes a chaos familiar apparently? The list says 12 models, so it must be a special rule or something....
Also, really dig the fact that it mirrors the SM one.

12 models- 10 CSM, 1 Terminator Lord, 1 Helbrute

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
The CSM box also includes a chaos familiar apparently? The list says 12 models, so it must be a special rule or something....
Also, really dig the fact that it mirrors the SM one.

12 models- 10 CSM, 1 Terminator Lord, 1 Helbrute

I think the Helbrute doesn't count. Who fields them anyways?

We can only hope the CSM formation is at least "decent". CSM just seem like a lost cause at this point.

Very disappointed with the lame models included in the CSM box, seems like a missed opportunity, especially with the ease and affordability to buy Helbrutes and the lord model from the Dark Vengeance box set.

Via War of Sigmar

welp. There goes my hopes for a new CSM sprue. They're definitely not going to make a new one if they just packaged it in this.

Hey look everybody. It's that plastic Chaos Terminator Lord they've shoved at us in 3 army deals and a board game.

I mean, at this point I'd take the fething Aspiring Champion.

Heck, at this point I'd take a sheet of Chaos transfers over it.

Fantastic missed opportunity. Fantastic waste of time.

It's almost like they don't realise that we don't want a plastic Chaos Terminator Lord. Again. Again again.

Eh they aren't THAT bad. Maybe just nostalgia since I remember them coming out and was giddy (same fr the more ancient Berserker plastics). I like 'em

May pick it up. I like the Helbrute (but miss my old CSM Dreadnought). Or maybe I'll buy the Attack Force my GW has sitting on the shelf, then if I get this too I get a Helbrute (or a 2nd if I get DV stuff on ebay), a second Lord to convert into a Sorcerer or similar, and a second CSM squad.

Isn’t he at least a decent multi-pose kit with a lot of options?

A lot of the vanilla “deals” come with mono-pose HQs with bad wargear choices.

Davor wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
The CSM box also includes a chaos familiar apparently? The list says 12 models, so it must be a special rule or something....
Also, really dig the fact that it mirrors the SM one.

12 models- 10 CSM, 1 Terminator Lord, 1 Helbrute

I think the Helbrute doesn't count. Who fields them anyways?

i do - quite successful actually.

i'm quite excited to see what this CSM formation can do - and since the Helbrute model is actually quite nice (compared to the DV one) and the overall box is somewhat cost effective, i'll probably give it a go.

 Nevelon wrote:

A lot of the vanilla “deals” come with mono-pose HQs with bad wargear choices.

Which are much newer and some of which were only previously available in campaign boxes or limited releases.

That Chaos Terminator Lord has been with us since the late 4th ed/early 5th ed CSM book and is part of the whole 'What even is Chaos?' aesthetic problem.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Eh they aren't THAT bad. Maybe just nostalgia since I remember them coming out and was giddy (same fr the more ancient Berserker plastics). I like 'em

May pick it up. I like the Helbrute (but miss my old CSM Dreadnought). Or maybe I'll buy the Attack Force my GW has sitting on the shelf, then if I get this too I get a Helbrute (or a 2nd if I get DV stuff on ebay), a second Lord to convert into a Sorcerer or similar, and a second CSM squad.

And yet, would it really have killed GW to wait what, 3-5 months for the WZ: Fenris part II release, at which point they could have thrown a SC CSM's box at us that could have been as simple as 5x NEW! 1kSons plastic, Helbrute, 10 Cultists, and that offending Termie Sorc?

Seriously, I'd have bought 3 of those without blinking, and told myself I was a genius because I was "saving" some money, and getting to try out a Mayhem Pack with those "savings"...

Instead, I'm spending a grand total of $0, and if/when those mythical 1kSons ever appear, I'm probably using my brain and showing restraint and only buying 2 boxes.

I honestly WANT to spend money on GW. I really, really do... however, they keep giving me almost no reason to, since they seemingly enjoy doing nothing but flipping Chaos players the bird at every opportunity.
I've been saving up for well over 3 years now my "Chaos fund" to spend if we ever get some new models... so far this year, I've bought the CotW books + Daemon datacards set and that's it. Instead, my 'Chaos fund' has been going towards a bunch of new 3DS/Wii U games & amiibos, and a handful of LEGO sets.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hey look everybody. It's that plastic Chaos Terminator Lord they've shoved at us in 3 army deals and a board game.

I mean, at this point I'd take the fething Aspiring Champion.

Heck, at this point I'd take a sheet of Chaos transfers over it.

Fantastic missed opportunity. Fantastic waste of time.

It's almost like they don't realise that we don't want a plastic Chaos Terminator Lord. Again. Again again.

START. COLLECTING.

Hmm.... what could that possibly mean?

 Azazelx wrote:

START. COLLECTING.

Hmm.... what could that possibly mean?

An opportunity to give new players a box with some actual value and tactical viability?

I mean, considering that new players will tend to build as seen on the box...a Chainfist on a character is a terrible decision. The advantage the monopose characters have? Their armaments tend to be somewhat viable. And I'm sure the Aspiring Champion model could have been a fine stand in for a power armoured Chaos Lord.

And hey, you know what the boxes released with previously limited release character models do?

They also sell to people with existing collections. Pretty sure people happily picked up the boxes for the savings as well as the previously limited Terminator Captain and Ethereal.

So these aren't just targetted at newer players. Older players look at them and go 'Hmm, that has some value to it and I like the look of X.'

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
welp. There goes my hopes for a new CSM sprue. They're definitely not going to make a new one if they just packaged it in this.

Why not? Get rid of existing stock before introducing new one. You think they would get rid of old sprues AFTER new gets introduced?-)

Hey though that Chainfist looks awesome. Rule of cool is good enough in my book, but I get your point.

Experiment 626 wrote:
And yet, would it really have killed GW to wait what, 3-5 months for the WZ: Fenris part II release, at which point they could have thrown a SC CSM's box at us that could have been as simple as 5x NEW! 1kSons plastic, Helbrute, 10 Cultists, and that offending Termie Sorc?

Why sell new box for discount when you can sell it for full price...

You want start collecting with tsons, assuming they get released in fall you would be lucky to get start collecting box then before fall 2017.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

START. COLLECTING.

Hmm.... what could that possibly mean?

An opportunity to give new players a box with some actual value and tactical viability?

I mean, considering that new players will tend to build as seen on the box...a Chainfist on a character is a terrible decision. The advantage the monopose characters have? Their armaments tend to be somewhat viable. And I'm sure the Aspiring Champion model could have been a fine stand in for a power armoured Chaos Lord.

TIL starting to collect actually means giving some tactical viability rather than starting to collect.. To be honest with you, i doubt that anyone who 'starts collecting' an army will fact-check & number-crunch
CSM or any army unless they're already play 40k. In such cases, people look at the formation included, which literally nobody knows anything about right now and decide from there if it's viable or not.

tneva82 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
And yet, would it really have killed GW to wait what, 3-5 months for the WZ: Fenris part II release, at which point they could have thrown a SC CSM's box at us that could have been as simple as 5x NEW! 1kSons plastic, Helbrute, 10 Cultists, and that offending Termie Sorc?

Why sell new box for discount when you can sell it for full price...

You want start collecting with tsons, assuming they get released in fall you would be lucky to get start collecting box then before fall 2017.

How cruel to trick new players to field thousand sons! By GWs policy, they wont update the rules, but make a formation demanding 9 units of 1k sons + 9 sorcerors.

Anyway, for a start kit the CSM looks decent, but they should have included cultists on the side.

Also very tempted to get the tempestus box, I have wanted to expand my small strike force for some time.


Edit: That Eldar book would be very nice to get. Lets just hope the teaser for next week include something more.

 Fayric wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
And yet, would it really have killed GW to wait what, 3-5 months for the WZ: Fenris part II release, at which point they could have thrown a SC CSM's box at us that could have been as simple as 5x NEW! 1kSons plastic, Helbrute, 10 Cultists, and that offending Termie Sorc?

Why sell new box for discount when you can sell it for full price...

You want start collecting with tsons, assuming they get released in fall you would be lucky to get start collecting box then before fall 2017.

How cruel to trick new players to field thousand sons! By GWs policy, they wont update the rules, but make a formation demanding 9 units of 1k sons + 9 sorcerors.

Anyway, for a start kit the CSM looks decent, but they should have included cultists on the side.


Edit: That Eldar book would be very nice to get. Lets just hope the teaser for next week include something more.

I agree, for a starting kit it would've been great to see some Cultists. Although there's this 20 man cultist box some people might grab as well.. and by some people
i mean me..

Feel bad for CSM. They always get shafted.

A Maulerfiend would have been better IMO. New Lord would have been good too.

Only thing that can save them now is a new Codex that makes everything viable.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the formation for Militarum Tempestus has some real promise.

"Replenishing your losses", I need more details!

The CSM kits are all still nice but I assume everyone playing CSM got them already. Or doesn't have the helbrute because of its bad standing. They could have made me buy it with raptors and fiend. Let's hope there's some nice formation in it at least.

I may be the outlier, but even though CSM need an update in more than one way, but since the box is being packed with the ACTUAL helbrute and not the starter set one, this is a heck of a lot more appealing to me. I LOVE the actual Helbrute model <3

Please let's stop hawking this 20 piece cultist set with a Chaos marine champion that doesent belong. I think GW must have forgotten to include a dataslate for that one...

The 20 cultists are simply the 5 man mini box times 4. Which gives you 3 autoguns and 2 ccw cultists, with no viable champion.

So with a min size unit of 10 (or 8 if you're Daemonkin) you have a mismatch unit of 9 autoguns with a converted cultist champion, and a unit of 6 cc cultists with 3 autoguns, and another champ to convert from a close combat joe.

Or you can add it to Dark Vengeance for a 22 man cultist unit with champ and stubber and 18 man cc unit with flamer and champ.
And believe me, i love me some Cultists, I just wish I wasn't stuck paying an Autoguns tax in every list due to modeling limitations.

You know, I would have taken the CSM half of Dark Vengeance in a separate boxed set over this CSM box. Or the DV CSM models, but replace the Cultists with a box of CSM. Oh well.

The MT box is good enough.

I still want an Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Blood Angels boxed set.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hey look everybody. It's that plastic Chaos Terminator Lord they've shoved at us in 3 army deals and a board game.

I mean, at this point I'd take the fething Aspiring Champion.

Heck, at this point I'd take a sheet of Chaos transfers over it.

Fantastic missed opportunity. Fantastic waste of time.

It's almost like they don't realise that we don't want a plastic Chaos Terminator Lord. Again. Again again.

they're selling it as a Start Collecting box, not a bulk up your collection box (no matter how much we might want it to be)

not ideal for us, but good for the intended user

 Frozocrone wrote:
Feel bad for CSM. They always get shafted.

A Maulerfiend would have been better IMO. New Lord would have been good too.

Only thing that can save them now is a new Codex that makes everything viable.

You guys know that brand-new figures haven't been going into the SC boxes, right?

Source: GW - via BOLS

GW Hull (Facebook)

“If you haven’t already heard, it’s the stores 26th anniversary on Saturday 25th June.

There are some exciting products available on the day to celebrate and today I’ll be showing off just one of them that will be available!

The Eldar Sketchbook is a tome of sketches and drawings of Games Workshop artwork and features never before seen sketches by Jes Goodwin. If you’re a fan of any of the artwork produced by Games Workshop then this book is for you!

If you’re interested in getting your hands on one of these very exclusive books then be at at the store early on June 25th!”

You guys know that brand-new figures haven't been going into the SC boxes, right?

Except that they did in the Tau box. In fact, everything in that box was new. The sculpts were only a few months old at most.

Well that MT box will probably end up in my house eventually. I'm curious what the formation for it is. Chaos I'm... less excited for. It's quite sad really because chaos was my first army and I have about 6000 points of them collecting dust now. It goes beyond the fact that they are weak right now but honestly GW just gutted them and they don't feel fun to play anymore, not compared to some of the other armies anyways. I'm actually morbidly curious though to see if the formation bonus for chaos will give bonuses to any IoM army that fights it... because fluff.

Really digging that Eldar book, I'll definitely be trying to get my hands on one of those too.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Source: GW - via BOLS

GW Hull (Facebook)

“If you haven’t already heard, it’s the stores 26th anniversary on Saturday 25th June.

There are some exciting products available on the day to celebrate and today I’ll be showing off just one of them that will be available!

The Eldar Sketchbook is a tome of sketches and drawings of Games Workshop artwork and features never before seen sketches by Jes Goodwin. If you’re a fan of any of the artwork produced by Games Workshop then this book is for you!

If you’re interested in getting your hands on one of these very exclusive books then be at at the store early on June 25th!”

That book so better be available on general sale... available in one shop in England is a tad harsh..[thanks for sharing the pics- I still have my WD with the original aspect drawings in! ]

Don't feel bad, I don't even have a GW store in my area. The closest one is probably close to two hours away.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Feel bad for CSM. They always get shafted.

A Maulerfiend would have been better IMO. New Lord would have been good too.

Only thing that can save them now is a new Codex that makes everything viable.

You guys know that brand-new figures haven't been going into the SC boxes, right?

Except that every other box has recent sculpts in them, while the Tau box is 100% 'new' stuff...

But we don't expect non-Chaos players to understand our plight, especially considering that seemingly over half the people who frequent GW stores weren't even born yet when our stuff was actually "new".


Actually, this brings about a fun side bet... Which will come first, the Maple Loafs winning a Stanley Cup, or Chaos finally getting a model line overhaul?!
(note: my money is on the Maple Losers!)

Experiment 626 wrote:

Except that every other box has recent sculpts in them, while the Tau box is 100% 'new' stuff...

But we don't expect non-Chaos players to understand our plight, especially considering that seemingly over half the people who frequent GW stores weren't even born yet when our stuff was actually "new".

Actually, this brings about a fun side bet... Which will come first, the Maple Loafs winning a Stanley Cup, or Chaos finally getting a model line overhaul?!
(note: my money is on the Maple Losers!)

I said Brand New, not "recent". And I wouldn't be terribly surprised if I were playing Chaos since before you were born.

Avatar of Spite? How much you wanna bet it gives Hatred to models within 12" of the Helbrute?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Avatar of Spite? How much you wanna bet it gives Hatred to models within 12" of the Helbrute?

I counter-bet it's "Any unit within 12" of the Lord that is part of the Avatar of Spite-Formation can choose do drop its movement phase for shooting but is unable to move in any way. This Shooting does not count as shooting phase."

I might get the Miltiarium tempestus box if budget allows. It's a nice small army for small games and very contained.

 Barzam wrote:

You guys know that brand-new figures haven't been going into the SC boxes, right?

Except that they did in the Tau box. In fact, everything in that box was new. The sculpts were only a few months old at most.

Yeah. That's one box out of how many?

One box does not make it standard procedure.

Anyhow, I'm probably up for 2 boxes of each. I can always use more Terminator Lord/Sorcerer parts for my Chaos Legions, and the current Chaos Dreadnought/Helbrute is a nice model that I don't yet own.

While I'd like to see new CSM models, I do a lot of mixing with 3rd party stuff, loyalist stuff, Forge World HH and 40k stuff (now including Calth) and it works for me. Even the AoS stuff will make for some beautiful World Eaters & Berserkers. (just bought some more for that exact purpose).

This blog comes hugely recommended.
https://eternalhunt.wordpress.com/khornes-eternal-hunt/
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/432972.page

I'll have to figure out some wheel replacements for the Tauroxen. Vic Minis' wheel and suspension packs, most likely...

tneva82 wrote:

 Barzam wrote:

You guys know that brand-new figures haven't been going into the SC boxes, right?

Except that they did in the Tau box. In fact, everything in that box was new. The sculpts were only a few months old at most.

Yeah. That's one box out of how many?

One box does not make it standard procedure.

I for one certainly hoped that the reason the CSM start collecting box didn't get released at the same time as all the others was that they were updating the model line. I don't think that was unreasonable. But no - it seems to have been delayed for no real reason. Disappointing.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'll have to figure out some wheel replacements for the Tauroxen. Vic Minis' wheel and suspension packs, most likely...

Zinge Industries also sells an upgrade kit: http://zinge.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=18&product_id=704

Crispy78 wrote:

I for one certainly hoped that the reason the CSM start collecting box didn't get released at the same time as all the others was that they were updating the model line. I don't think that was unreasonable. But no - it seems to have been delayed for no real reason. Disappointing.

In case you didn't notice chaos wasn't only army that didn't get one right off the bat...Shock horror GW layering releases...What a newsflash!

Surely even GW couldn't be so utterly vacant as to print up a sketchbook of a type folk have wanted ever since Gothic & Eldritch went out of print, and then sell it literally only in a single store on a single day. Hull must just be trying to drive folk to the store by implying that but really it's a general release that happens to be the same day as their anniversary, aye?

English WD teaser - by Scanner on the SpikeyBits forum

Crispy78 wrote:

I for one certainly hoped that the reason the CSM start collecting box didn't get released at the same time as all the others was that they were updating the model line. I don't think that was unreasonable. But no - it seems to have been delayed for no real reason. Disappointing.

They wouldn't release the SC box at the same time as a brand new kit. If we had already had a new basic CSM sprue a few months ago/last year then there might have been a chance. We might get a Khorne Berserker SC box sometime soonish with those ancient sprues included along with a Forgefiend and clampack AC. Otherwise I don't see any more hope for CSM until there's another, fuller release who knows how far down the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I'll have to figure out some wheel replacements for the Tauroxen. Vic Minis' wheel and suspension packs, most likely...

Zinge Industries also sells an upgrade kit: http://zinge.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=18&product_id=704

Thanks for the link. 15 quid though.. sheesh. I was hoping to find something less than $18USD (Vic's price) for what basically amounts to a set of four wheels.

While Vic's upgrade kit is nicely detailed, it's on the flimsy side and not as sturdy as Zinge's kit.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Surely even GW couldn't be so utterly vacant as to print up a sketchbook of a type folk have wanted ever since Gothic & Eldritch went out of print, and then sell it literally only in a single store on a single day. Hull must just be trying to drive folk to the store by implying that but really it's a general release that happens to be the same day as their anniversary, aye?

As I've said many times in this thread now, GW Portsmouth were selling it for their anniversary the weekend just gone. It appears to be, at this stage anyway, limited edition for stores when their anniversary is.

Thanks, ImAGeek, I will add a quote of yours to the OP.

Are there any pics/reviews of the book online yet?

 BrookM wrote:
While Vic's upgrade kit is nicely detailed, it's on the flimsy side and not as sturdy as Zinge's kit.

Interesting, thanks for the info there. I'm probably not gong to be up to spending what amounts to $30ea plus postage to upgrade the Taurox kits. I might have to build them with the stock tracks and simply hate myself instead. Or just never build them.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Thanks, ImAGeek, I will add a quote of yours to the OP.

Are there any pics/reviews of the book online yet?

I haven't seen any; but then I don't know how busy a store Pompey is for many people to have actually bought a copy. I was tempted to go a pick up one but I wasn't in Pompey that weekend and I didn't have much money. I'm sure I'll regret it!

My Stores' b'day is in October and they'll have some -- very few -- copies in.

So as/when your store gets a b'day then there'll be some.

In theory.

 Azazelx wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
While Vic's upgrade kit is nicely detailed, it's on the flimsy side and not as sturdy as Zinge's kit.

Interesting, thanks for the info there. I'm probably not gong to be up to spending what amounts to $30ea plus postage to upgrade the Taurox kits. I might have to build them with the stock tracks and simply hate myself instead. Or just never build them.

Just the suspension and wheels comes in at 10.50£, and you could probably sell the spare track parts for around 5£.

I don't think I'll ever understand GW. One minute they're sane, the next they're nickle & diming people like crazy, the next they're leaving money on the table with bizarre location- or time-based limitations on purchases.

Mental.

 reds8n wrote:
My Stores' b'day is in October and they'll have some -- very few -- copies in.

So as/when your store gets a b'day then there'll be some.

In theory.

Not true. My local GW's birthday has recently come and gone--it's strictly for the UK/Europe.

Thanks Obama.

Thanks Drumpf.

 reds8n wrote:
My Stores' b'day is in October and they'll have some -- very few -- copies in.

So as/when your store gets a b'day then there'll be some.

In theory.

Which is incredibly annoying if true since the Birmingham store had it's 30th anniversary back in March and though framed artwork was nice, I really want this sketchbook.

*sigh* Same old 10 man CSM. I guess they wont be changing for another few more years...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hey look everybody. It's that plastic Chaos Terminator Lord they've shoved at us in 3 army deals and a board game.

I mean, at this point I'd take the fething Aspiring Champion.

Heck, at this point I'd take a sheet of Chaos transfers over it.

Fantastic missed opportunity. Fantastic waste of time.

It's almost like they don't realise that we don't want a plastic Chaos Terminator Lord. Again. Again again.

It's a "Start Collecting" box. If you have all this stuff already 3 times over, you're not the target audience

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's a "Start Collecting" box. If you have all this stuff already 3 times over, you're not the target audience

Yeah, 'cause people who already play sure aren't buying these for the discounts. Nosiree!

 ImAGeek wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Thanks, ImAGeek, I will add a quote of yours to the OP.

Are there any pics/reviews of the book online yet?

I haven't seen any; but then I don't know how busy a store Pompey is for many people to have actually bought a copy. I was tempted to go a pick up one but I wasn't in Pompey that weekend and I didn't have much money. I'm sure I'll regret it!

Probably worth a look in or a facebook message, they might still have it. I got the apocalypse templates in GW Portsmouth long after they'd sold out online. No store of any kind in Commercial Road is "busy"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Mental.

It's pretty obvious why they do this, they're trying to get people into the stores, an exclusive to build excitement around a store birthday is a fairly solid way to do that. It really isn't that hard to understand.

I'm hoping the Tempestus formation does something actually worthwhile, because for $68 a Pop, I'd absolutely buy 4-5 of Them for 2x Formation and a CAD + 2 Command Squads for a fun, mid-level army (point wise).

IMO, the Taurox is one of those "looks better in person" models, much like the Heldrake and Centurion devastators.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's a "Start Collecting" box. If you have all this stuff already 3 times over, you're not the target audience

Yeah, 'cause people who already play sure aren't buying these for the discounts. Nosiree!

They might but they aren't main target so they can't expect to not have duplicates of what they have.

If I buy AM I have to accept it has HQ I have no need for. That's the life. Particularly HQ models are generally ones you don't generally need from those boxes if you are veteran player. Regardless of what army.

No surprise chaos isn't better in that than others. Duh.

Ork box has practically worthless nob box nor do they get much use for multiple painboyz either. Loyal marines are likely flooded with termie captains as well. Tyranid box isn't super hyper veteran friendly either. Only so many gargoyles you need and tyranid warriors are junk you likely don't want that many(and those you get plenty in all boxed deals as well). Hive tyrant is good if it contains wings.

Daemon ones are pretty good though for getting multiples.

 Bull0 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Thanks, ImAGeek, I will add a quote of yours to the OP.

Are there any pics/reviews of the book online yet?

I haven't seen any; but then I don't know how busy a store Pompey is for many people to have actually bought a copy. I was tempted to go a pick up one but I wasn't in Pompey that weekend and I didn't have much money. I'm sure I'll regret it!

Probably worth a look in or a facebook message, they might still have it. I got the apocalypse templates in GW Portsmouth long after they'd sold out online. No store of any kind in Commercial Road is "busy"

Might be, I might drop them a message after payday. Good point! Are you from round here then?

Oh god i dont even play eldar and want that book.

any price set on it?

 Desubot wrote:
Oh god i dont even play eldar and want that book.

any price set on it?

Yeah me too. Looks pretty! But as it is can't buy it.

But I'll be stunned if it does NOT become generally available later. Odds of that? Slim. They didn't keep "exclusive to this box set" models exclusive that long either

Question is rather when it comes more widely available. Hopefully sooner rather than late!

I've always liked the look of the MT might have to pick that box set up, I worked it out at around 300 points, would making a cracking little allied group for my inquisitors/guard. Especially if the formation is any good.

As for the csm box, I wouldn't lose too much heart, GW are going to want to get rid of any remaining csm stock before they give them too major of an upgrade aren't they.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Mental.

It's pretty obvious why they do this, they're trying to get people into the stores, an exclusive to build excitement around a store birthday is a fairly solid way to do that. It really isn't that hard to understand.

You do that with alternative versions of existing products, with discounts, or with freebies. Not with products that there's a clear and substantial demand for(have you seen the prices for secondhand Gothic & Eldritch copies?) which you should be selling as standard to your whole customer base. The amount of money they're making by drawing people who otherwise wouldn't go into a store for one day, even if we generously assume they buy more than just the sketchbook they went in for and even if we amalgamate such sales from every such anniversary, would almost certainly be dwarfed by the amount they could make by just putting the sodding thing up for order on the BL website.

That's what's mental - they're leaving big wadges of cash on the table so they can execute a strategy that might get them a fraction of one wadge.

I got what you were driving at - you think they should earn what they can from this book without using it to try and drive people to the stores. You've obviously made your mind up that that approach doesn't work, since you have dismissed it as "getting people into the store for one day". I disagree. I just wanted to be sure you actually got it, because you were describing it as "mental" and "leaving money on the table", which is crap. They're trying to shore up the customer base for their stores, because they believe that will make them more money overall than just selling the book the normal way.

I have high hopes for the tempestus start collecting box.
It's a low point cost self sufficient ally for the AM codex.
The command squad (with access to tempestus orders) and tempestus squad are upgradeable and can take dedicated transports.
If the formation rule is moderately decent this box would be full on win for AM players.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's a "Start Collecting" box. If you have all this stuff already 3 times over, you're not the target audience

Yeah, 'cause people who already play sure aren't buying these for the discounts. Nosiree!

So the Start Collecting boxes should be aimed at established players who are buying for the discounts rather than those who are, I dunno... starting?

Aimed at both ideally.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Aimed at both ideally.

No these are not discount model boxes. GW didn't decide to sell models cheaper. They created these boxes in response to the same start collecting boxes privateer and other model company's have for newer players. It's s cheap entry point to begin an army with an HQ troop and vehicle, not the skyhammer bundle or whatever else you wanted.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Mental.

It's pretty obvious why they do this, they're trying to get people into the stores, an exclusive to build excitement around a store birthday is a fairly solid way to do that. It really isn't that hard to understand.

You do that with alternative versions of existing products, with discounts, or with freebies. Not with products that there's a clear and substantial demand for(have you seen the prices for secondhand Gothic & Eldritch copies?) which you should be selling as standard to your whole customer base. The amount of money they're making by drawing people who otherwise wouldn't go into a store for one day, even if we generously assume they buy more than just the sketchbook they went in for and even if we amalgamate such sales from every such anniversary, would almost certainly be dwarfed by the amount they could make by just putting the sodding thing up for order on the BL website.

That's what's mental - they're leaving big wadges of cash on the table so they can execute a strategy that might get them a fraction of one wadge.

To be fair they might be able to have their cake and eat it too, by selling it as a special product for a while and then rolling it out full scale later.

gungo wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Aimed at both ideally.

No these are not discount model boxes. GW didn't decide to sell models cheaper. They created these boxes in response to the same start collecting boxes privateer and other model company's have for newer players. It's s cheap entry point to begin an army with an HQ troop and vehicle, not the skyhammer bundle or whatever else you wanted.

Well, it actually seems like GW is trying to sell models cheaper recently. By coming out with Getting Started boxes, and other formation boxes (not one click bundles, those are crap) we are seeing a lot of cases now were you have kits that are more expensive overall, but far cheaper then buying the contents separately- see Space Marine Heroes or on the extreme end, Getting Started- Seraphim. Since they are new boxes, they technically fall outside the limitations of "no discounts" that Kirby penned them in for a while, while getting people to put more money down at the same time as getting more value for that money.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Mental.

It's pretty obvious why they do this, they're trying to get people into the stores, an exclusive to build excitement around a store birthday is a fairly solid way to do that. It really isn't that hard to understand.

You do that with alternative versions of existing products, with discounts, or with freebies. Not with products that there's a clear and substantial demand for(have you seen the prices for secondhand Gothic & Eldritch copies?) which you should be selling as standard to your whole customer base. The amount of money they're making by drawing people who otherwise wouldn't go into a store for one day, even if we generously assume they buy more than just the sketchbook they went in for and even if we amalgamate such sales from every such anniversary, would almost certainly be dwarfed by the amount they could make by just putting the sodding thing up for order on the BL website.

That's what's mental - they're leaving big wadges of cash on the table so they can execute a strategy that might get them a fraction of one wadge.

You assume they never release that elsewhere. When it's more likely it's more of advance copy the stores get. Rest get it later.

gungo wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Aimed at both ideally.

No these are not discount model boxes. GW didn't decide to sell models cheaper. They created these boxes in response to the same start collecting boxes privateer and other model company's have for newer players. It's s cheap entry point to begin an army with an HQ troop and vehicle, not the skyhammer bundle or whatever else you wanted.

I don't think privateer press factored into the decision at all to be honest, if anything they borrowed the concept from the old battleforces.

With that in mind these can be seen a discount boxes, the intent is to provide an easy way to collect a new army, but they are very evidently a collection of army staple miniatures at a serious reduction, hence they will be attractive to veterans too who love a bargain.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Aimed at both ideally.

No! This is the Internet! We must stubbornly pick one black or white answer!

But yeah, both, as you said.

gungo wrote:
GW didn't decide to sell models cheaper.

And yet they are. Are you suggesting it happened by accident?

number9dream wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Mental.

It's pretty obvious why they do this, they're trying to get people into the stores, an exclusive to build excitement around a store birthday is a fairly solid way to do that. It really isn't that hard to understand.

You do that with alternative versions of existing products, with discounts, or with freebies. Not with products that there's a clear and substantial demand for(have you seen the prices for secondhand Gothic & Eldritch copies?) which you should be selling as standard to your whole customer base. The amount of money they're making by drawing people who otherwise wouldn't go into a store for one day, even if we generously assume they buy more than just the sketchbook they went in for and even if we amalgamate such sales from every such anniversary, would almost certainly be dwarfed by the amount they could make by just putting the sodding thing up for order on the BL website.

That's what's mental - they're leaving big wadges of cash on the table so they can execute a strategy that might get them a fraction of one wadge.

To be fair they might be able to have their cake and eat it too, by selling it as a special product for a while and then rolling it out full scale later.

Maybe a soft back general release keeping the hard back limited?

 Bull0 wrote:
I got what you were driving at - you think they should earn what they can from this book without using it to try and drive people to the stores. You've obviously made your mind up that that approach doesn't work, since you have dismissed it as "getting people into the store for one day". I disagree. I just wanted to be sure you actually got it, because you were describing it as "mental" and "leaving money on the table", which is crap. They're trying to shore up the customer base for their stores, because they believe that will make them more money overall than just selling the book the normal way.

They can believe in fairies if they like too, it doesn't make it real.

How many stores have a milestone anniversary in a year? How many people would have the opportunity to visit that store on or around that specific day? How many of those actually want the book? How many of those will actually go to the store given a lot of folk don't enjoy the GW store environment? And how many of that ever shrinking number of people will do anything beyond walk in, buy the book, and walk right back out again?

Even if you put aside the fact they're selling a fraction of the number of copies they would if they just sold the product online, the idea that a faction-specific sketchbook apparently not even tied into a model or codex release for said faction is going to drive a significant amount of traffic into their stores with wallets open is utterly farcical.

I'll bet you a tenner that they could print a few cheapo t-shirts in China for pennies each and give them away for free on these anniversary days, and generate substantially more sales than imposing artificial scarcity on products people actually want to buy but now can't ever will.

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's a "Start Collecting" box. If you have all this stuff already 3 times over, you're not the target audience

Yeah, 'cause people who already play sure aren't buying these for the discounts. Nosiree!

They might but they aren't main target so they can't expect to not have duplicates of what they have.

If I buy AM I have to accept it has HQ I have no need for. That's the life. Particularly HQ models are generally ones you don't generally need from those boxes if you are veteran player. Regardless of what army.

No surprise chaos isn't better in that than others. Duh.

Ork box has practically worthless nob box nor do they get much use for multiple painboyz either. Loyal marines are likely flooded with termie captains as well. Tyranid box isn't super hyper veteran friendly either. Only so many gargoyles you need and tyranid warriors are junk you likely don't want that many(and those you get plenty in all boxed deals as well). Hive tyrant is good if it contains wings.

Daemon ones are pretty good though for getting multiples.

All the GS boxes come with full sprues, so the Hive Tyrant box has wings. Warriors are used in several formations, as well as Gargoyles. It's probably one of the better Getting Started boxes, not considering in Tyranid's overall lower power level on the competitive scene.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

gungo wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Aimed at both ideally.

No these are not discount model boxes. GW didn't decide to sell models cheaper. They created these boxes in response to the same start collecting boxes privateer and other model company's have for newer players. It's s cheap entry point to begin an army with an HQ troop and vehicle, not the skyhammer bundle or whatever else you wanted.

Well, it actually seems like GW is trying to sell models cheaper recently. By coming out with Getting Started boxes, and other formation boxes (not one click bundles, those are crap) we are seeing a lot of cases now were you have kits that are more expensive overall, but far cheaper then buying the contents separately- see Space Marine Heroes or on the extreme end, Getting Started- Seraphim. Since they are new boxes, they technically fall outside the limitations of "no discounts" that Kirby penned them in for a while, while getting people to put more money down at the same time as getting more value for that money.

Well according to roundtree GW is not lowering prices on models they are offering packages at different price points.
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.
Hence the crying that models in this start collecting box is useless to veterans is dumb. The intent is not to sell models cheaper.
Real world example
Wendy's stopped selling the junior bacon cheeseburger for $1 years ago because they were losing money per sale.
They created the 4 for $4 this year
You are not getting the junior bacon for $1. They are making you buy other items so they make a profit in a bundle regardless if you wanted those chicken nuggets or not.
It's a marketing ploy. You may tell yourself it's models cheaper all you want but in normal business this is not considered a discount. This is a value meal, this is a way to trick dumb people into spending more on items they wouldn't normally buy in the first place. Its not intended to make amazing gameplay cheap formation models for veterans. If a veteran does get more value from it because they don't have those models and intend to use them great but that is neither the intent or the purpose. Welcome to the real world this is how everything works in marketing.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
I got what you were driving at - you think they should earn what they can from this book without using it to try and drive people to the stores. You've obviously made your mind up that that approach doesn't work, since you have dismissed it as "getting people into the store for one day". I disagree. I just wanted to be sure you actually got it, because you were describing it as "mental" and "leaving money on the table", which is crap. They're trying to shore up the customer base for their stores, because they believe that will make them more money overall than just selling the book the normal way.

They can believe in fairies if they like too, it doesn't make it real.

How many stores have a milestone anniversary in a year? How many people would have the opportunity to visit that store on or around that specific day? How many of those actually want the book? How many of those will actually go to the store given a lot of folk don't enjoy the GW store environment? And how many of that ever shrinking number of people will do anything beyond walk in, buy the book, and walk right back out again?

Even if you put aside the fact they're selling a fraction of the number of copies they would if they just sold the product online, the idea that a faction-specific sketchbook apparently not even tied into a model or codex release for said faction is going to drive a significant amount of traffic into their stores with wallets open is utterly farcical.

I'll bet you a tenner that they could print a few cheapo t-shirts in China for pennies each and give them away for free on these anniversary days, and generate substantially more sales than imposing artificial scarcity on products people actually want to buy but now can't ever will.

This is seriously tiresome. A desirable book getting bums into stores is "utterly farcical" but cheapo t shirts getting bums into stores is a good idea? What the hell?

I think you're just pissy that you can't order the book online, and you're trying to legitimise your bad feelings by insisting it's actually an objectively bad business decision. The problem is you don't have any objective evidence, and you dismiss any subjective hypothesis to the contrary while positing your own equally subjective hypothesis. And you're so insistent with it! Awful stuff.

And that's probably enough about that now - perhaps take it to PM if you'd like to continue the conversation there?

Meanwhile here - back on topic please.

I'm not impressed with either bundle and I shan't be purchasing either from my friendly local purveyor of fine models and gaming supplements.

Shan't, I say with emphasis.

I may get one, with the usual 20% off my good hawker of all opiates of plastic offers a loyal customer such as me.

I might have seriously considered the MT one if it had come with the new plastic Techpriest instead of that fugly gakpile excuse of a Commissar. I have no want or need whatsoever for a Taurox, so the HQ choice is the make-or-break on that one for me. (as I'd be using the Scions as Traitors/Cultists)

Experiment 626 wrote:
I might have seriously considered the MT one if it had come with the new plastic Techpriest instead of that fugly gakpile excuse of a Commissar. I have no want or need whatsoever for a Taurox, so the HQ choice is the make-or-break on that one for me. (as I'd be using the Scions as Traitors/Cultists)

Why would it have come with the Techpriest?

MT can't take Techpriests. They have two HQ options; Commissar and Scion Command Squad.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I might have seriously considered the MT one if it had come with the new plastic Techpriest instead of that fugly gakpile excuse of a Commissar. I have no want or need whatsoever for a Taurox, so the HQ choice is the make-or-break on that one for me. (as I'd be using the Scions as Traitors/Cultists)

Why would it have come with the Techpriest?

MT can't take Techpriests. They have two HQ options; Commissar and Scion Command Squad.

The skitarrii normally can't take a Dominus last I checked, but their box formation permits it

MacMuckles wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I might have seriously considered the MT one if it had come with the new plastic Techpriest instead of that fugly gakpile excuse of a Commissar. I have no want or need whatsoever for a Taurox, so the HQ choice is the make-or-break on that one for me. (as I'd be using the Scions as Traitors/Cultists)

Why would it have come with the Techpriest?

MT can't take Techpriests. They have two HQ options; Commissar and Scion Command Squad.

The skitarrii normally can't take a Dominus last I checked, but their box formation permits it

Skitarii have no HQ option, so that one makes sense.

Wanting the new Techpriest in the MT box is just ridiculous. If E626 had said "I wish the AM box had included the new Techpriest", I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. That box really deserved the Techpriest.

 Kanluwen wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I might have seriously considered the MT one if it had come with the new plastic Techpriest instead of that fugly gakpile excuse of a Commissar. I have no want or need whatsoever for a Taurox, so the HQ choice is the make-or-break on that one for me. (as I'd be using the Scions as Traitors/Cultists)

Why would it have come with the Techpriest?

MT can't take Techpriests. They have two HQ options; Commissar and Scion Command Squad.

The skitarrii normally can't take a Dominus last I checked, but their box formation permits it

Skitarii have no HQ option, so that one makes sense.

Wanting the new Techpriest in the MT box is just ridiculous. If E626 had said "I wish the AM box had included the new Techpriest", I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. That box really deserved the Techpriest.

You can make a Scion Command Squad anyways, and throwing in a Techpriest in place of (yet another) Commissar, would then allow for GW to double down and murder the wallets of IG players with two SC sets.

Besides, I don't think I've seen an actual MT codex in my local GW store for over 2 years now! I know the box contains the special formation rules, but really, these sets are golden for staff to push codex sales...
"Yeah this big box comes with rules for using everything in it, but if you add on this book here, you also get ALL the rules for everything else on this shelf here that you can add onto this set once it's all done!"

Or hell, you could suggest the MT box alongside an IG box and sell the codex by pointing out that the collective rules for both sets are all in the IG codex.

gungo wrote:
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.

Who is forcing you or me or anyone else to buy? From seeing how GW profits and sales are not as big as they once were it seems a lot of people are not buying. So who is being forced?

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I might have seriously considered the MT one if it had come with the new plastic Techpriest instead of that fugly gakpile excuse of a Commissar. I have no want or need whatsoever for a Taurox, so the HQ choice is the make-or-break on that one for me. (as I'd be using the Scions as Traitors/Cultists)

Why would it have come with the Techpriest?

MT can't take Techpriests. They have two HQ options; Commissar and Scion Command Squad.

The skitarrii normally can't take a Dominus last I checked, but their box formation permits it

Skitarii have no HQ option, so that one makes sense.

Wanting the new Techpriest in the MT box is just ridiculous. If E626 had said "I wish the AM box had included the new Techpriest", I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. That box really deserved the Techpriest.

You can make a Scion Command Squad anyways, and throwing in a Techpriest in place of (yet another) Commissar, would then allow for GW to double down and murder the wallets of IG players with two SC sets.

Why would I buy the Scion box when I can buy a Tech Command set instead, and get something that can at least build a part of the Cadian formations--or Pask?

$75 for a Leman Russ and Techpriest(a requirement in the Emperor's Wrath artillery company, the superheavy triple formation, and the basic Leman Russ formation) versus $85 for a full sized Scion squad or two min sized squads, a Taurox, and a Commissar(or in your example) or a Techpriest.

One of those two will actually see table time. It, sadly, isn't the Scions most of the time.

Besides, I don't think I've seen an actual MT codex in my local GW store for over 2 years now! I know the box contains the special formation rules, but really, these sets are golden for staff to push codex sales...
"Yeah this big box comes with rules for using everything in it, but if you add on this book here, you also get ALL the rules for everything else on this shelf here that you can add onto this set once it's all done!"

The MT codex went direct only like the month after it came out. Hell, I don't think it actually was a stock product to begin with. I know I never saw them on the shelves at my LGW.

Or hell, you could suggest the MT box alongside an IG box and sell the codex by pointing out that the collective rules for both sets are all in the IG codex.

They're not though. The MT box is probably geared towards you running it as Militarum Tempestus; hence them calling it a Scions set.

The Scions have their own unique set of Orders, which make Scions actually kinda/sorta playable.

Davor wrote:

gungo wrote:
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.

Who is forcing you or me or anyone else to buy? From seeing how GW profits and sales are not as big as they once were it seems a lot of people are not buying. So who is being forced?

GW profits and sales are up from last year. By forcing I'm saying they are bundling stuff you don't need with stuff you may want. You are forced to get the entire package together and can't choose to take one part at a discount Or you can buy individual parts seperately at full retail.

gungo wrote:

Davor wrote:

gungo wrote:
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.

Who is forcing you or me or anyone else to buy? From seeing how GW profits and sales are not as big as they once were it seems a lot of people are not buying. So who is being forced?

GW profits and sales are up from last year. By forcing I'm saying they are bundling stuff you don't need with stuff you may want. You are forced to get the entire package together and can't choose to take one part at a discount Or you can buy individual parts seperately at full retail.

That's a bit of a broad assumption isn't it? What doesn't appeal to one person, will appeal to another. At the end of the day, what they're trying to accomplish, is a lower point of entry for the new blood in the hobby with some nice models. New players will generally have, at best, fleeting knowledge of GW stuff and no idea of what is or isn't "competitive". That's all these bundles are- a foot in the door.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

gungo wrote:

Davor wrote:

gungo wrote:
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.

Who is forcing you or me or anyone else to buy? From seeing how GW profits and sales are not as big as they once were it seems a lot of people are not buying. So who is being forced?

GW profits and sales are up from last year. By forcing I'm saying they are bundling stuff you don't need with stuff you may want. You are forced to get the entire package together and can't choose to take one part at a discount Or you can buy individual parts seperately at full retail.

That's a bit of a broad assumption isn't it? What doesn't appeal to one person, will appeal to another. At the end of the day, what they're trying to accomplish, is a lower point of entry for the new blood in the hobby with some nice models. New players will generally have, at best, fleeting knowledge of GW stuff and no idea of what is or isn't "competitive". That's all these bundles are- a foot in the door.

They are a bloody good foot in the door at that. When you think each box offers a significant discount, and gives you an army to play out of the box.

gungo wrote:

Davor wrote:

gungo wrote:
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.

Who is forcing you or me or anyone else to buy? From seeing how GW profits and sales are not as big as they once were it seems a lot of people are not buying. So who is being forced?

GW profits and sales are up from last year. By forcing I'm saying they are bundling stuff you don't need with stuff you may want. You are forced to get the entire package together and can't choose to take one part at a discount Or you can buy individual parts seperately at full retail.

I see what you are talking about now. Still we are not forced. If it was the only way of buying it, then maybe I can say "forced" in a sense you have no other options but we still have options. They might not be as good but still an option non the less and are not forced to buy. I know a lot of us don't like how GW operates. I know I slag on GW a lot of times myself, but to say 'forced' is a bit harsh. The other alternative is paying full price for everything in the box. And still we are not forced to buy them either.

As was said before, this is GW or Mr Roundtree's way of not reducing the price of the minis, but now giving a good deal for people and people who are starting/getting into 40K.

I was legitimately planning on buying a Mortarch model, maybe two. When I eventually bought the Start Collecting Skeleton Horde box, they forced me to take 10 skeletons and 5 Black Knights/Hexwraiths for free as well. They made me take those free models for each of the boxes I purchased.

I always liked that Lizardman Carnosaur model. When I got the Seraphon box, they forced me to also take 8 Saurus Knights and 12 Saurus Warriors.

I could go on. I've bought quite a few of the Start Collecting boxes. Each time I've been forced to take models for free for for a very small price over what I would have liked to buy anyway.

There are some that don't appeal. I didn't buy those ones.

gungo wrote:

Davor wrote:

gungo wrote:
What this means is they are making bundles and forcing you to still spend $80-$200 dollars on these bundles regardless if you need them.

Who is forcing you or me or anyone else to buy? From seeing how GW profits and sales are not as big as they once were it seems a lot of people are not buying. So who is being forced?

GW profits and sales are up from last year. By forcing I'm saying they are bundling stuff you don't need with stuff you may want. You are forced to get the entire package together and can't choose to take one part at a discount Or you can buy individual parts seperately at full retail.

Last report on december had survived from crash because of licensing income went up. CORE sales(ie what they produce) went down despite price hikes=sold units went down. Despite for example plastic HH that sold like hot cakes.

Profits have been steadily decreasing so I wouldn't be calling situation that good...Early indication from GW for the next report says slightly above market expectation _because total war warhammer sold like hot cakes_. Again doesn't bode too well for sales of miniatures. If profit from those is again steady or slight increase(despite price increases) doesn't bode that well.

tneva82 wrote:

gungo wrote:
Profits have been steadily decreasing so I wouldn't be calling situation that good...Early indication from GW for the next report says slightly above market expectation _because total war warhammer sold like hot cakes_. Again doesn't bode too well for sales of miniatures. If profit from those is again steady or slight increase(despite price increases) doesn't bode that well.

Here is a question. I thought GW got a one time fee for licensing, not how many copies sold. So how does GW get money for licensing? Lump some in the beginning and how many copies sold? Could explain why it's so much for brand new.

I guess we will see soon more AoS Start Collecting Sets too.

I think those are a little harder, since a lot of the WHFB/AoS stuff is in transition between being discontinued or is on life support vs very much new-released. I do hope they come up with some more, though. Ogres would be a good one, but there's no hero in plastic that I know of? Maybe one on the Mammoth-thing?

That eldar box is potentially really good depending on the formation rules.

Remember these formation are not just limited to unit size in the box. A full size scat bike squad w farseer and prism x2 or x3 may potentially be pretty good.

Getting tired of seeing Reavers and Raiders in these bundle boxes. Would much prefer Venoms/Ravagers and possibly Scourges in them. But I suppose that just means they're no longer for me.

That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

 Barzam wrote:
That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

Guardian Jetbikes are considered "basic troop" choices.

That's partly why everyone complains about Eldar; they can take a formation that basically consists of their strongest Troop choice with very little booby prize units to fill in their required Core choice..

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

Guardian Jetbikes are considered "basic troop" choices.

That's partly why everyone complains about Eldar; they can take a formation that basically consists of their strongest Troop choice with very little booby prize units to fill in their required Core choice..

Plus there is the battleforce for the guardians and dire avengers.

Me thinking start collecting+battleforce adds up to pretty neat 2nd ed list for reasonable price. Maybe some aspect warriors from ebay and off you go! Need to create quick army list to check rough point value for that force.

edit: 677pts or so without wargear. Uppable by taking dire avenger exarch over basic guy. Plus wave serpent and fire prism. Think those require house rules? Falcon had datafax but don't think those 2 had? Not that it's a problem. Modify falcon's rules as a base. Since it's OOP edition like we care it's not official

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Getting tired of seeing Reavers and Raiders in these bundle boxes. Would much prefer Venoms/Ravagers and possibly Scourges in them. But I suppose that just means they're no longer for me.

On the other hand, Archon and warriors is a nice change from the nigh useless (but great models) wych cult like the last few boxes DE have gotten.

tneva82 wrote:
Plus there is the battleforce for the guardians and dire avengers.

Me thinking start collecting+battleforce adds up to pretty neat 2nd ed list for reasonable price. Maybe some aspect warriors from ebay and off you go! Need to create quick army list to check rough point value for that force.

Windrider Farseer
3xScatbikes
Prism
=340ish with moderate upgrades

10 guadians w/platform
5 DA w/ exarch
WS w/some extras
Vyper
=375ish

So a bit over 700 points, could probably be easily stretched to a 750 point list. Assuming the price for the start collecting box is the same as others, $200 will get you all of that. And would make a reasonably fun to play list.

Eldar and Dark Eldar have the potencial get other Start collecting Sets in the future.

Wow, another week of nothing. Its been about a month since they last release some real minis (silver tower). The rate of release has really slowed down when compared to the two previous years

 Nevelon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Plus there is the battleforce for the guardians and dire avengers.

Me thinking start collecting+battleforce adds up to pretty neat 2nd ed list for reasonable price. Maybe some aspect warriors from ebay and off you go! Need to create quick army list to check rough point value for that force.

Windrider Farseer
3xScatbikes
Prism
=340ish with moderate upgrades

10 guadians w/platform
5 DA w/ exarch
WS w/some extras
Vyper
=375ish

So a bit over 700 points, could probably be easily stretched to a 750 point list. Assuming the price for the start collecting box is the same as others, $200 will get you all of that. And would make a reasonably fun to play list.

Presumably that's for current edition? I'm mostly interested in 2nd ed so points are bit higher actually. Roughly 700 pts BEFORE prism+wave serpent.

But yeah very nice start for friendly list. It's not tournament optimized but hey not every list has to be one!

(one problem 2nd ed has is that bikes are upgrades for guardian squads with minimum squad size 5...But that's easy to house rule).

Tempting. Eldar is one of the classic armies so would be nice to have smallish force at least.

Now if I would be better painter...Those flat vechiles are hard to paint!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

Guardian Jetbikes are considered "basic troop" choices.

That's partly why everyone complains about Eldar; they can take a formation that basically consists of their strongest Troop choice with very little booby prize units to fill in their required Core choice..

It's not the formation it's the unit, the formation is useless you are much better taking a CAD. The unit is very cheap for what it is, that's the problem

The box is very good, making it a good option if you want to get lots of Warlocks and Farseer, although it's not that big of a saving because the Warlock/Farseer is overpriced, you are better converting the regular Windriders

Eldar SC box is disappointing and saves me $100, but Dark Eldar one is very good for starting a new army (or bulking out an existing one)... very dangerous to my wallet.

Iain.

Chikout wrote:
No start collecting Harlequins is disappointing. The eldar box is £76 individually, the dark eldar box £78.50 individually. After this there is just blood Angels, dark Angels, grey knights and harlequins still waiting for a start collecting box. We will probably see some of those alongside the war zone Fenris stuff.

I have no doubt there will be a Start Collecting! Harlequins at some point.

Also the Windriders are such nice models , they would be making a mistake putting in Dire Avengers or Guardians over them

tneva82 wrote:

Presumably that's for current edition? I'm mostly interested in 2nd ed so points are bit higher actually. Roughly 700 pts BEFORE prism+wave serpent.

But yeah very nice start for friendly list. It's not tournament optimized but hey not every list has to be one!

(one problem 2nd ed has is that bikes are upgrades for guardian squads with minimum squad size 5...But that's easy to house rule).

Tempting. Eldar is one of the classic armies so would be nice to have smallish force at least.

Now if I would be better painter...Those flat vechiles are hard to paint!

Yup, that’s the current codex. I assumed you meant a 2nd ed style list. Like those one-of-everything WD battle report armies from back in the day. I can just open battlescribe to rough out points for the modern stuff. I’d have to walk all the way downstairs to get my 2nd ed Eldar codex off the shelf to crunch points for older edition.

I actually found Eldar vehicles easier to paint then imperial ones. Sure, there are a lot of surfaces, but they are mostly uniform. Just a couple of thin coats to get the color right, paint a few accents, and then blackline it. Pretty quick, and that’s with an old fuzzy stick. An airbrush would help a lot to get the smooth looks Eldar crave.

 Korlandril wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

Guardian Jetbikes are considered "basic troop" choices.

That's partly why everyone complains about Eldar; they can take a formation that basically consists of their strongest Troop choice with very little booby prize units to fill in their required Core choice..

It's not the formation it's the unit, the formation is useless you are much better taking a CAD. The unit is very cheap for what it is, that's the problem

Saying that "the formation is useless" is a ridiculous statement. Look at the Eldar Warhost and its components. The Windrider Host is, pound for pound, arguably one of if not the best Core choices in the game currently for any of the Decurion styled detachments.

Sure, you can take a CAD for OS...or if you want to take more than one LOW or lots of Wraith stuff, you can take the Warhost and Windrider Host as Core to relatively cheaply do so.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

Guardian Jetbikes are considered "basic troop" choices.

That's partly why everyone complains about Eldar; they can take a formation that basically consists of their strongest Troop choice with very little booby prize units to fill in their required Core choice..

It's not the formation it's the unit, the formation is useless you are much better taking a CAD. The unit is very cheap for what it is, that's the problem

Saying that "the formation is useless" is a ridiculous statement. Look at the Eldar Warhost and its components. The Windrider Host is, pound for pound, arguably one of if not the best Core choices in the game currently for any of the Decurion styled detachments.

Sure, you can take a CAD for OS...or if you want to take more than one LOW or lots of Wraith stuff, you can take the Warhost and Windrider Host as Core to relatively cheaply do so.

Lol ok, what's the one rule you get from the formation? Oh right it's for shuriken weapons, that's really helpful when all your bikes are armed with Scatter lasers

Also most events will have restrictions on LOW's so there are very few benefits to taking it when you can save 90pts by taking the bikes and Farseer in a CAD

So that leaves you with basically the only thing that makes this formation good is that the Windriders are good, so the formation is useless, you get more out of taking a CAD

 Nevelon wrote:
Yup, that’s the current codex. I assumed you meant a 2nd ed style list. Like those one-of-everything WD battle report armies from back in the day. I can just open battlescribe to rough out points for the modern stuff. I’d have to walk all the way downstairs to get my 2nd ed Eldar codex off the shelf to crunch points for older edition.

I actually found Eldar vehicles easier to paint then imperial ones. Sure, there are a lot of surfaces, but they are mostly uniform. Just a couple of thin coats to get the color right, paint a few accents, and then blackline it. Pretty quick, and that’s with an old fuzzy stick. An airbrush would help a lot to get the smooth looks Eldar crave.

Well we switched to 2nd ed so I'm looking for not just style but rules But flipside is codex is quickly accessible. Only ? is the two vechiles. Don't think there were official rules for them?

Certainly the army would be lot more old fashioned than these days. And especially feel more like in WD's but since I started with those the nostalgic feel is good And we prefer that style game.

I'm jealous over the airbrush look but don't feel like forking out that much money(at least yet). Maybe next year when current saving project is over and budget increases even for hobby expenses.

So... more pointy ears, you say?

Things I'd love:

Start Collecting: Harlequins
A board game of some kind featuring Exodites
An actual Exodite Supplement (I know, I know, not a hope)

Things I'd actually be really okay with:

Some Age of Sigmar Elf stuff - because no doubt they'll make epic conversion potential for Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin players.

Yay for DE. I just started a force for them, and all 4 of those things are on my buy list. As a matter of fact, 2 of each are. So this is perfect. I guess being the target audience has some benefits, since that saved cash can go elsewhere now (like a couple of harlequin ICs)

 Barzam wrote:
That Eldar box sounds kind of disappointing, actually. No Guardians or Dire Avengers? If the whole idea of the Start Collecting box is to, you know, start collecting, wouldn't you have some representation of the basic troops? It feels weird to have a Start Collecting box comprised almoat entirely of vehicles. I was kind of hoping we would see Wraith Guard or a Wraith Lord in that set.

As i see it since it comes as a formation it may fill as a Saim-hann starter army, or add on if plan to ally with them.

 Robin5t wrote:
So... more pointy ears, you say?

Things I'd love:

Start Collecting: Harlequins
A board game of some kind featuring Exodites
An actual Exodite Supplement (I know, I know, not a hope)

Things I'd actually be really okay with:

Some Age of Sigmar Elf stuff - because no doubt they'll make epic conversion potential for Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin players.

I think they have to do the aspect warriors in plastic before any of this. These sculpts are old and putrid for the most part, and are the main reason why I never started an Eldar army. It wouldn't hurt to redo the guardians also, as they are really starting to show their age.

Gotta say while I am not much of a fan for the SC Eldar box, but then again I'm probably just annoyed because I tend to get shot off the board because of those damned things with Scat Lasers.

The Dark Eldar however I'm definitely happy about, while I'm not going to need that many Raiders, maybe 3 at tops, but I definitely have a need for more Reavers and Warriors/Trueborn.

That Start Collecting MT box is sweet. Very tempting!

The Eldar Sketchbook looks like an amazing collectors item. I hope they do something like that for the armies I like.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Getting tired of seeing Reavers and Raiders in these bundle boxes. Would much prefer Venoms/Ravagers and possibly Scourges in them. But I suppose that just means they're no longer for me.

On the other hand, Archon and warriors is a nice change from the nigh useless (but great models) wych cult like the last few boxes DE have gotten.

Can't really argue with that.
Luckily Reavers come with a few extra heads to swap around(I usually use the spare helmets to help designate Trueborn). Raider also has a few of the hitchhikers you can repurpose for more dynamic Warriors as well. It's actually a really good box for the miniatures included(I haven't checked pricewise though).

 Robin5t wrote:
So... more pointy ears, you say?

Things I'd love:

Start Collecting: Harlequins
A board game of some kind featuring Exodites
An actual Exodite Supplement (I know, I know, not a hope)

Things I'd actually be really okay with:

Some Age of Sigmar Elf stuff - because no doubt they'll make epic conversion potential for Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin players.

You know, funny enough, about 2ish? months ago Atia said something about GW working on Exodites but they wouldnt be coming out for at least a year minimum.

If we are getting more pointy ears, I’d really love to see some plastic aspects. While Eldar might be overpowered on the table, large chunks of their range is both finecast and ancient.

Tempted to pick up the eldar box. I’ve had my eye on a prism for a long time now. And could always use more bikes. It would represent a large chunk of my hobby budget, and I’m holding out for the next BaC-esque HH box. Luckily these start collecting boxes don’t seem to be going anywhere, and I’ve got plenty of stuff to paint.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Luckily Reavers come with a few extra heads to swap around(I usually use the spare helmets to help designate Trueborn). Raider also has a few of the hitchhikers you can repurpose for more dynamic Warriors as well. It's actually a really good box for the miniatures included(I haven't checked pricewise though).

I think the Raider is the nicest transport kit that GW comes out with. It just has so much stuff in it, and it's a nice, complex model. I mean, compare it with a Rhino

I love the hitchikers!

I am disappointed the Eldar bundle isn't Guardians, a Farseer on foot, and a Wave Serpent. Basic Troops are better than Cheese Troops. The Dark Eldar bundle is better, hopefully it is paired with good rules.

 streetsamurai wrote:
It wouldn't hurt to redo the guardians also, as they are really starting to show their age.

Alas I'm affraid they aren't too likely to replace them in a hurry. Plastic BASIC troops don't seem to have much interest for them to replace. People already have them and harder to market basic grunts than awzum new elite unit.

Maybe one day but wouldn't holding my breath :(

Have the CSM or MT rules been leaked yet?

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
So... more pointy ears, you say?

Things I'd love:

Start Collecting: Harlequins
A board game of some kind featuring Exodites
An actual Exodite Supplement (I know, I know, not a hope)

Things I'd actually be really okay with:

Some Age of Sigmar Elf stuff - because no doubt they'll make epic conversion potential for Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin players.

I think they have to do the aspect warriors in plastic before any of this. These sculpts are old and putrid for the most part, and are the main reason why I never started an Eldar army. It wouldn't hurt to redo the guardians also, as they are really starting to show their age.

Well, in that respect, updated Avatar of Khaine and Phoenix Lord models wouldn't go amiss. Those models haven't changed since what I roughly estimate to be the dawn of time.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed the Eldar bundle isn't Guardians, a Farseer on foot, and a Wave Serpent. Basic Troops are better than Cheese Troops. The Dark Eldar bundle is better, hopefully it is paired with good rules.

Of course farseer on foot, guardian and wave serpent wouldn't sell all that well outside 2nd ed fans

Also would compete with the battleforce...This way these 2 have zero overlap so buying both makes very much sense. Your kit is basically smaller version of battleforce.

There's an image of the White Dwarf article floating around. The Craftworld formation gives a shooting buff of some kind to the Fire Prism when the Farseer is nearby - the wording makes me think it's going to be something like 'the Fire Prism can re-roll to hit rolls when the Farseer is within X inches'.

 Robin5t wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
So... more pointy ears, you say?

Things I'd love:

Start Collecting: Harlequins
A board game of some kind featuring Exodites
An actual Exodite Supplement (I know, I know, not a hope)

Things I'd actually be really okay with:

Some Age of Sigmar Elf stuff - because no doubt they'll make epic conversion potential for Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin players.

I think they have to do the aspect warriors in plastic before any of this. These sculpts are old and putrid for the most part, and are the main reason why I never started an Eldar army. It wouldn't hurt to redo the guardians also, as they are really starting to show their age.

Well, in that respect, updated Avatar of Khaine and Phoenix Lord models wouldn't go amiss. Those models haven't changed since what I roughly estimate to be the dawn of time.

The Forge World Avatar is an amazing model and cheaper than a new plastic Avatar would be, so I don't think we need that. Phoenix Lords on the other hand...

White Dwarf teaser

Photo: BOLS




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess this is the new boxed game with 2 flyers ('old' models with a saving like IK: Renegade) Sad Panda rumored.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Wow, another week of nothing. Its been about a month since they last release some real minis (silver tower). The rate of release has really slowed down when compared to the two previous years

the Broodlord and Guard Tech-Priest Enginseer came out last week...
having the Priest available seperate from the Russ got me to grab him, so last weekend was a great release for me
such an awesome model!!!

the 100th store Space Marine Captain was a great release on Memorial Day weekend, too, but it is hard to beat the heap of minis in Silver Tower...
i am still drooling over how good they look in hand

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Wow, another week of nothing. Its been about a month since they last release some real minis (silver tower). The rate of release has really slowed down when compared to the two previous years

the Broodlord and Guard Tech-Priest Enginseer came out last week...
having the Priest available seperate from the Russ got me to grab him, so last weekend was a great release for me
such an awesome model!!!

Which was old model repackaged. I guess he's talking about new releases rather than what's been available before.

So we still haven't an idea what these formations do, and we've got a rumor on the Elder one?

Color me disappointed.

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed the Eldar bundle isn't Guardians, a Farseer on foot, and a Wave Serpent. Basic Troops are better than Cheese Troops. The Dark Eldar bundle is better, hopefully it is paired with good rules.

Of course farseer on foot, guardian and wave serpent wouldn't sell all that well outside 2nd ed fans

Also would compete with the battleforce...This way these 2 have zero overlap so buying both makes very much sense. Your kit is basically smaller version of battleforce.

Not everyone wants to play Cheesedar. If I were to start Elder, I would want their actual basic Troops. And when the SC boxes came out, several Battleforces went out of production (SM, Necrons, and Chaos Demons for sure), this would likely have the same thing happen.

tneva82 wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Wow, another week of nothing. Its been about a month since they last release some real minis (silver tower). The rate of release has really slowed down when compared to the two previous years

the Broodlord and Guard Tech-Priest Enginseer came out last week...
having the Priest available seperate from the Russ got me to grab him, so last weekend was a great release for me
such an awesome model!!!

Which was old model repackaged. I guess he's talking about new releases rather than what's been available before.

The Techpriest Enginseer is far from an "old model". He came out a manner of months ago, with the Mont'ka book.

While we have gotten more new "boxes" recently, StreetSamurai's point was there hasn't been a new "model" since the Silver Tower came out.

I disagree, however, having ordered a box of the new GW crates that just shipped on Saturday.

No leaks yet about the formations in the CSM or MT boxes? I'm just starting to build up my MT army, so it'll probably be worth getting anyway, but just curious.

I'm right there with you, Requizen. I plan on buying at least four of them, but I want to know the rules first.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Techpriest Enginseer is far from an "old model". He came out a manner of months ago, with the Mont'ka book.

Precisely. He has been on sale before. Aka repack. He seems to be asking for NEW not yet sale not yet seen models.

Whether he was available 1 month ago or 1 year ago he's still been on sale. Not as exciting release as new model nobody has yet to be able to buy. Most who wanted him likely bought him anyway(especially as package deal is generally better deal than solo clam packs...Those are ridiculously priced)

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Techpriest Enginseer is far from an "old model". He came out a manner of months ago, with the Mont'ka book.

Precisely. He has been on sale before. Aka repack. He seems to be asking for NEW not yet sale not yet seen models.

He was not on sale before.
The Tech Command bundle, featuring him, was on sale before. He is still a new model.

Split hairs if you want, but he is still very much a new model and this is his first time being for sale strictly as just him.

Whether he was available 1 month ago or 1 year ago he's still been on sale. Not as exciting release as new model nobody has yet to be able to buy. Most who wanted him likely bought him anyway(especially as package deal is generally better deal than solo clam packs...Those are ridiculously priced)

Tech Command isn't actually as good of a deal as you think. $75 for a Leman Russ($49.50) and a Tech-Priest Enginseer($30.00) with an Apocalypse Squadron Command Sprue(No Longer Available/Listed--was $13ish) that was really just included for the bigger vox-caster bits.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tech Command isn't actually as good of a deal as you think. $75 for a Leman Russ($49.50) and a Tech-Priest Enginseer($30.00) with an Apocalypse Squadron Command Sprue(No Longer Available/Listed--was $13ish) that was really just included for the bigger vox-caster bits.

So that's saving before even the command sprue. I know which one I'll buy if I want him...

But you seriously say model you can already buy is as interesting release as brand new kit or codex?

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tech Command isn't actually as good of a deal as you think. $75 for a Leman Russ($49.50) and a Tech-Priest Enginseer($30.00) with an Apocalypse Squadron Command Sprue(No Longer Available/Listed--was $13ish) that was really just included for the bigger vox-caster bits.

So that's saving before even the command sprue. I know which one I'll buy if I want him...

And if you want a tank...

But you seriously say model you can already buy is as interesting release as brand new kit or codex?

Not every release is going to be "interesting".

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Around September, White Dwarf Magazine will return to monthly format.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The White Dwarf will be a monthly magazine from september 2016 again. Subscribers will be informed soon. There will be more hobby related stuff and battle reports.

RazorEdge wrote:

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Around September, White Dwarf Magazine will return to monthly format.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The White Dwarf will be a monthly magazine from september 2016 again. Subscribers will be informed soon. There will be more hobby related stuff and battle reports.

More than ok with that. While it probably also means the release schedule slows down, I'm alright with that too. I'd rather have (hopefully) better content less often than crap + releases every week.

I’ll take that with a gain of salt.

But I wouldn’t mind much. One nice thing about the weekly is the price. If there are rules in an issue I want, I’ll just grab it. Even if I’ve already seen the leaks online that give me everything I need to know. Because $4 is under my micro-transaction threshold.

But there is not a whole lot of content in an issue. So I never pick up the ones I don’t know I want.

Back in the old monthly format, there was enough content for me to want to pick up and read. This is the way-back old ones, in the golden age. The price was also reasonable.

The newer version of the monthly WD cost too much for the content it delivered. We’ll see if they can get the cost/value ratio in order. If they can, I might go back to grabbing it all the time just to read and for reference.

RazorEdge wrote:

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Around September, White Dwarf Magazine will return to monthly format.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The White Dwarf will be a monthly magazine from september 2016 again. Subscribers will be informed soon. There will be more hobby related stuff and battle reports.

On the new WD facebook page, the staff have been asking what people liked about the battle reports and which were the ones they liked best. Additionally they're asking which articles were people's favourites.

Final opinion gathering before actioning a format change? Who knows?

Oh, cool. I could totally get in to monthly White Dwarf again. Completely lost interest with the weekly ones.

 Bull0 wrote:
Oh, cool. I could totally get in to monthly White Dwarf again. Completely lost interest with the weekly ones.

As long as they keep Visions going. I still get it for the old £3.00 per issue WD sub price. Nice to look at a mag rather than be continually glued to a screen.

RazorEdge wrote:

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Around September, White Dwarf Magazine will return to monthly format.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The White Dwarf will be a monthly magazine from september 2016 again. Subscribers will be informed soon. There will be more hobby related stuff and battle reports.

If that actually happens, I might actually subscribe again.

I guess I would be okay with WD going Monthly again. It would probably allow them to put larger amounts of rules info in there.

Seems like they're taking their foot off the gas and giving themselves a little more time to breathe. No bad thing.

A monthly WD with some actual content in it? Yeah I could get behind that, if we're talking at least late 90's/early 00's style which had a tolerable balance between shilling the new kits and actually interesting articles. Oh, and put Blanchitsu in it, it's criminal that series is hidden away in Visions for the seven people globally who still buy that.

Of course, it's a Faeit rumour, which probably means the magazine is changing into a daily one-page leaflet

I had been hoping the delay of the Eldar Start Collecting box was because we'd get plastic Aspect Warriors this year. Oh well.

Still curious what's in store for Start Collecting Tzeentch Daemons. Hope it has Horrors, but suspect it is exactly what the extra rules in Silver Tower refer to: Exalted Flamer (on chariot), Screamers, and Flamers. ("Contains 8 Citadel Miniatures!")

The Eldar Start Collecting box's lack of minis makes it feel like less of a deal than most others even though moneywise it is still great.

pigasuspig wrote:
I had been hoping the delay of the Eldar Start Collecting box was because we'd get plastic Aspect Warriors this year. Oh well.

Since you wouldn't be getting SCB this year or plastic aspect warriors this year why hope delay is due to that?

Nothing stops GW from releasing another start collecting box later but if plastic aspects would be released tomorrow you would be lucky to get start collect box with those before next year summer earliest...Better to have this box now.

Here is a picture of the Dark Eldar Start Collecting set. It looks like a much better value than the Eldar boxed set. Heck, it has practically the same contents, but also includes a set of Kabalite Warriors. The Eldar box is a disappointment.


So the value of each in USD is the following:

Eldar Start Collecting:
Farseer on Jetbike: $33
Windriders: $41
Fire Prism: $49.50
Total: $123.50 savings of $38.50

Dark Eldar Collecting:
Archon: $23
Kabalite Warriors: $29
Reavers: $39.50
Raider: $37.25
Total: $128.75 savings of $43.75

So they aren't too much different in terms of price, but the Dark Eldar one definitely feels like a better value.

For a complete newbie, assuming they have no preference of aesthetics the Dark Eldar one looks like the better deal.

Each has a tank, three bikes and a leader. But one has the leader on a bike (which is cool)* whereas the other has ten extra guys.



*Yes, I am still bitter that I can't take Archons on Reavers. :(

Would 2 boxes of the DE one be a good enough force to have a game with and how many points would it be roughly?

DE are in a bit of a sorry state at the moment though aren't they?

I'm digging the DE box though and have been thinking about starting a new force. I was waiting for the CSM one but I don't need any of that stuff. If it had've been a Fiend I might have considered it. I think GW missed a trick there.

Souleater wrote:
*Yes, I am still bitter that I can't take Archons on Reavers. :(

Oh, I so wanted to convert a Reaver Archon while the Codex update was still pending. Alas, of course we can't get the cool stuff. This means that my Archon is forever dedicated to WWP shenanigans.

Pilau Rice wrote:Would 2 boxes of the DE one be a good enough force to have a game with and how many points would it be roughly?

DE are in a bit of a sorry state at the moment though aren't they?

I'm digging the DE box though and have been thinking about starting a new force. I was waiting for the CSM one but I don't need any of that stuff. If it had've been a Fiend I might have considered it. I think GW missed a trick there.

Kabalite Warriors in a Raider with DL, NS and Splinter Racks are good. With TL Poisoned 4+ volleys, an Anti-Armour weapon and 3+ Jink they're fairly survivable and cause enemy units with Toughness value to melt. This includes MCs.

Reavers are excellent. Give 'em Cluster Caltrops, fly across the board and destroy objective-camping units with Rending HoW. And the Archon, well, is your HQ and WWP delivery system.

Two boxes would yield about 650 pts. of good DE units. No real "tax" in there.

Tempestus formation rules - via Shocker3800 on B&C

shocker3800, on 15 Jun 2016 - 1:24 PM, said:

Found this floating around https://imgur.com/a/cMUkC