It's also correct that GW doesn't bother re-doing old Codex books, basically since Tau, as they consider 7th a lame duck rule set (there will still be rules for new miniatures, incl. campaigns, Codex Deathwatch, etc..).
Deathwatch miniatures in the boxed game are all mono-pose characters (think Space Hulk, except with normal bases). Sternguard rumors are nonsense. One is possibly the first dedicated Blood Ravens mini by GW (feel free to correct me there. My GW-history-fu is weak)?
Lots of cultists, a few pure genestealers, another new broodlord.
Multi-part kits later this year.
Hastings - Warseer (Feb 2015)
Originally Posted by drbored
[...]
So MAYBE Genestealers and/or Deathwatch
and POTENTIALLY Dark Angels
and PROBABLY Tzeentch
I'm kinda excited about this, if only to see where they go with it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Hmmm, hopefully rules beyond just a specific formation. That flyer sounds pretty rad, and Captain Artemis is a welcome addition to my small force.
From what Sad Panda seems to be implying, it's likely going to be Harlequin sized.
So a Deathwatch Kill-Team box, two accompanying boxes, and the flyer along with the Artemis clam pack.
Doesnt sound like the Deathwatch release will be as big as the Harlequin's. SP called the latter 'one of the biggest in a while' and the DW release 'not huge'. An upgrade sprue maybe, or an infantry boxed set? Havent read anything about it from him yet, so I guess just the Overkill characters plus Artemis? All in single clampacks, or a set like the WHQ four characters expansion?
Was reading on BOLS that its going to be a kill team size with each model effectively a character with loads of options.
I would love to see some crazy overpowered marines (with suitably over the top costs) so that we can finally have the fluff power that marines are meant to have.
Imagine marines that can take on whole mobs of orks single handedly....
Months ago BOLS's sources said Sternguard models + upgrade sprue and Lictors and Tyranid Warriors in DW: Overkill and (no surprise) were wrong. Yesterday they quoted their industry sources saying there will be an upgrade sprue along the Deathwatch Codex. They dont make it easy to believe them...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I hope it's not a boxed version of the Overkill minis. That would suck.
I can sort of see where you're coming from here, but at the same time, it'd be nice for folks who just want the Deathwatch minis rather than drop £100 on the board game.
Keeping them non-chapter specific would be a wiser move for sure.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I hope it's not a boxed version of the Overkill minis. That would suck.
It's likely to be something like the Overkill models.
I genuinely would be surprised if the Overkill models aren't just specific loadouts from whatever the Kill-Team box will have.
Also, even though Sad Panda hasn't given a timeline...I think we're looking at August for Deathwatch.
Book 9 of "The Beast Arises" series is called "The Watchers in Death" and actually deals with the formation of the Deathwatch. I can't see them missing an opportunity like that.
I am thinking it will be an upgrade sprue for the Sternguard kit. Possibly all in one box. Hopefully with a DW Frag Cannon! As long as it gives me a way to make a custom Kill Team to run as aneeded Allied Detachment, I will be happy. Probably going to pick up Captain Artemis and the Flyer/Drop ship at the very least.
They surely won't be the same models, as those who bought the Deathwatch: Overkill set are likely to be main customer base! I'm sure their plan is to sell more to these same people.
gungo wrote: So Artemis
A drop ship of some type
Maybe an upgrade sprue for stern guard
And??? The death watch codex could surely use a few plastic inqusition models to lead them like they do in the fluff.
Plastic Inquisitor? Have you gone mad? Next you'll be saying they should do plastic Sisters!
Anyway, I really hope the boxed set isn't just an upgrade for Sternguard since it would not capture BA/DA/SW very well. Who knows. A big sheet of random Chapter Shoulder Pauldrons would also be kinda neat (as long as it is front loaded with the main guys).
I’d love to see a re-release of the monopose minis from DW:OK. I couldn’t justify the whole box, but just the marines would tempt me.
I would also love to see a chapter upgrade style sprue, for a number of reasons.
One would be the price point. $13.50 is in the impulse buy range.
But the main draw would be it makes for a more robust codex. Right now, GW is firmly in the no model=no rules mindset. But, if they had an upgrade sprue, they could easily include deathwatch assault teams, or deathwatch devs, or anything else that could be made from an existing kit + the upgrade sprue.
Without that, I fear we are doomed to a codex that has rules for one or two units, a handful of characters, and that’s it. I’d like to see a little more meat on the bones here.
Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
I would like an impulse buy kit, for sure. I hope the book has something like "this Marine is from Chapter A, he gets ability X". Hopefully they are fairly balanced so people don't have entire Kill Teams from one chapter. I hope it lets me use my DW Overkill dudes alongside custom units (possibly by using customiced units to represent them).
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around.
Sure it does. Deathwatch can use anything and everything they want/acquire.
That's kind of their schtick.
Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better.
Rules != Fluff.
Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
I wouldn't expect to see Assault Marines within the list, at least not like you're thinking. Remember that the Biker, Terminator, and Jump Pack outfitted Deathwatch members all got placed into their own slots as one-off units. They'll probably fall under a catch-all of a Lone Wolf styled entry that can take different options.
I would like an impulse buy kit, for sure. I hope the book has something like "this Marine is from Chapter A, he gets ability X". Hopefully they are fairly balanced so people don't have entire Kill Teams from one chapter. I hope it lets me use my DW Overkill dudes alongside custom units (possibly by using customiced units to represent them).
Do you have the rules for the Kill Team from Overkill?
Congrats. You can use them alongside whatever this next set is. And this next set is going to be able to bring along Librarians at the least, I guarantee it, since the recent Space Marine Psychic Disciplines included Deathwatch as a faction.
I’d love to see a re-release of the monopose minis from DW:OK. I couldn’t justify the whole box, but just the marines would tempt me.
I would also love to see a chapter upgrade style sprue, for a number of reasons.
One would be the price point. $13.50 is in the impulse buy range.
But the main draw would be it makes for a more robust codex. Right now, GW is firmly in the no model=no rules mindset. But, if they had an upgrade sprue, they could easily include deathwatch assault teams, or deathwatch devs, or anything else that could be made from an existing kit + the upgrade sprue.
If that's what you want, just play Marines and be done with it.
Without that, I fear we are doomed to a codex that has rules for one or two units, a handful of characters, and that’s it. I’d like to see a little more meat on the bones here.
We literally just got a tidbit from a reliable rumor source about this whole thing and you already want to "see a little more meat on the bones here"?
So far, all we know:
Deathwatch
Artemis clam-shell
Flyer
"Not a big release"
Multi-part kits; able to build stuff from the Overkill board game.
Today’s batch builds on the first two sets of rumors from yesterday and the weekend:
Industry sources tell BoLS:
The Codex Layout and Rules:
This is a very different layout and organization than the traditional Codex: Space Marines.
The codex will contain a very small number of units and many characters.
Every Character from Deathwatch Overkill is included.
There will be a HQ choice.
There will be 1-2 Troops unit choices.
3-5 Formations.
Drop Pods are the only vehicles described in the codex.
The big theme of the codex is customization. While the number of units is very small, there are lavish and exhaustive upgrade options for each and every model in the army. Things such as wargear, weapons, and even originating chapters all can be picked and have in-game effects.
It is quite possible to sink giant amount of points into a very small amount of models if you wish.
The Previous Rumors:
Industry sources tell BoLS:
New minis accompanying the codex:
A New Terminator HQ model, with full Deathwatch Iconography throughout his armor and is armed for assault.
A New Deathwatch accessory sprue – that will work with the existing Space Marine range.
This is in same vein as the previous Blood Angel, Space Wolves, etc… add-on frames
Deathwatch iconography pauldrons for both PA and Termys.
Deathwatch bolters, assault weapons and wargear.
WHEN: Look for the new codex in late Summer (August-September 2016 timeframe)
HOW: Look for the codex to NOT be a modified version of the Space Marine codex. It will be a very different animal, representing the unique hard hitting but small forces of the Deathwatch. There will be both existing minis and new unseen kits coming with the release.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around.
Sure it does. Deathwatch can use anything and everything they want/acquire.
That's kind of their schtick.
Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better.
Rules != Fluff.
Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
I wouldn't expect to see Assault Marines within the list, at least not like you're thinking. Remember that the Biker, Terminator, and Jump Pack outfitted Deathwatch members all got placed into their own slots as one-off units. They'll probably fall under a catch-all of a Lone Wolf styled entry that can take different options.
I would like an impulse buy kit, for sure. I hope the book has something like "this Marine is from Chapter A, he gets ability X". Hopefully they are fairly balanced so people don't have entire Kill Teams from one chapter. I hope it lets me use my DW Overkill dudes alongside custom units (possibly by using customiced units to represent them).
Do you have the rules for the Kill Team from Overkill?
Congrats. You can use them alongside whatever this next set is. And this next set is going to be able to bring along Librarians at the least, I guarantee it, since the recent Space Marine Psychic Disciplines included Deathwatch as a faction.
The reason I doubt a Lascannon DW Marine is going to be very common is because Lascannons are anti-vehicle. Unheard of, probably not. Just rare enough it wouldn't need representation in an actual kit since the bits still exist. I agree that we will probably see Terminators, Bike, and Jump Troops as sort of Lone Wolf units, but I would love to be able to make a Kill Team composed entirely of Jump Units. If only so they don't always need to be single Marines running around since they don't have Independent Character.
I have the DW half of DW Overkill. What I want to be able to do is use some of the Marines from there in a Kill Team, but also some additional Marines not from there. I definitely hope that DW Drop Pods in addition to the Flyer/Dropship are possible.
Kanluwen wrote: And they're out from the get-go; "only vehicle is drop pods".
I'm really hoping for Deathwatch Scouts though. We know they exist; and we know they're supposed to be pretty impressive.
There is a DW Scout in the Ignition book. It seems they aren't your typical 10th Company fare, but elite Marines that are expert snipers and infiltrators. Definitely want some of them!
As someone who's entire SM army is deathwatch complete with crappy old metal upgrades and kit bashed from all the upgrade sets they made. And the fact that I ran out of pads. I am most stoked for anything new and shiny for my xenos hunters. If the new dex sucks oh well I will keep running Kantor ,sternguard drop pod counts as. But I have hope. The biggest issue I see is a mini sized release that leaves them in the Harlequin need helpers camp.
Anyways, if anyone should be getting those as characters/signature units?
Raven Guard.
Thats kinda my point - they are included in the generic SM Codex but they and their successors don't have actually have the troops described in the fluff - recent Imperial Armour being a notable example. Also Arn't scouts still BS3 or did that go up in 7.5?
I though the Inqusitor model was mentioned earlier in the thread?
Anyways, if anyone should be getting those as characters/signature units? Raven Guard.
Thats kinda my point - they are included in the generic SM Codex but they and their successors don't have actually have the troops described in the fluff - recent Imperial Armour being a notable example.
Well yeah, of course they don't. GW's writers basically get told to make Raven Guard the Assault Marine army. There's a reason why the Raptors really need to be updated, and it's so that we can have two different sources to pull from for Raven Guard. One for the Assault heavy and one for the Ambush heavy.
Also Arn't scouts still BS3 or did that go up in 7.5?
Scouts are BS4. They have been for at least two books now.
I though the Inqusitor model was mentioned earlier in the thread?
There has been no mention of Inquisition beyond the fact that Sad Panda stated we will be getting a Captain Artemis model. Captain Artemis was a model done for the 54mm Inquisitor range.
Why would we get an Inquisitor model with the Deathwatch book?
Deathwatch is their own entity, tied to the Inquisition but not made up of Inquisitors.
Not made of but under their control and often led by Inquisitors who have identified xenos threat needing elimination.
If by "often" you mean "sometimes".
Inquisitors can petition for the Deathwatch to aid them. That does not mean that the Inquisitors will be leading the Deathwatch into battle.
Guard Commanders can petition for Deathwatch aid. Does that make Deathwatch as part of the Guard?
While I would like to see inquisitors, I’m not sure that’s how GW would do it.
Back in 3rd, there were the Witchhunter and Demonhunter codexes, each with a branch of the inquisition and their militant arm (Sob and GK respectively) IIRC the third leg of the triumverate, the Ordo Xenos and the deathwatch, was never made. If this codex had come out in that era, I’d fully expect to see a strong inquisitional presence.
But the modern GK and SoB codexes have had all the Inq. stuff stripped out. They stand alone in their own codex. I’d expect the same here.
Why would we get an Inquisitor model with the Deathwatch book?
Deathwatch is their own entity, tied to the Inquisition but not made up of Inquisitors.
Not made of but under their control and often led by Inquisitors who have identified xenos threat needing elimination.
If by "often" you mean "sometimes".
Inquisitors can petition for the Deathwatch to aid them. That does not mean that the Inquisitors will be leading the Deathwatch into battle.
Guard Commanders can petition for Deathwatch aid. Does that make Deathwatch as part of the Guard?
Deathwatch is not Chamber militia(or whatever it was called) of Guard. It is for Ordo Xenos. They were CREATED to be armed fist of the Ordo Xenos. Okay non-Ordo Xenos Inquisitors have bit more paperwork but Ordo Xenos is one of the 3 biggest Ordos...
Ordo Xenos requesting deathwatch is like planetary goverment requesting PDF.
Not to mention Inquisitors have "bit" more authority than Guard commanders(as in obey or you better have ability to kill me)
An upgrade sprue of mainly pads and a few other bits like the Ultra, Da, BA and SW ones would do nicely.
Shapeways has sorted me out for minor chapter pads and there are quite a few from the various FW and GW kits you can repurpose for your needs. eg Phalanx Warder Pads = Executioners.
Why would we get an Inquisitor model with the Deathwatch book?
Deathwatch is their own entity, tied to the Inquisition but not made up of Inquisitors.
Not made of but under their control and often led by Inquisitors who have identified xenos threat needing elimination.
If by "often" you mean "sometimes". Inquisitors can petition for the Deathwatch to aid them. That does not mean that the Inquisitors will be leading the Deathwatch into battle.
Guard Commanders can petition for Deathwatch aid. Does that make Deathwatch as part of the Guard?
Deathwatch is not Chamber militia(or whatever it was called) of Guard. It is for Ordo Xenos. They were CREATED to be armed fist of the Ordo Xenos. Okay non-Ordo Xenos Inquisitors have bit more paperwork but Ordo Xenos is one of the 3 biggest Ordos...
Ordo Xenos requesting deathwatch is like planetary goverment requesting PDF.
Planetary governments control the PDF. The Ordo Xenos does not control the Deathwatch in anything but name.
Either way the Deathwatch fluff, like Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle, has actively moved away from the "Inquisitors have to be in charge" angle and moved towards them being a fighting force in their own right.
Not to mention Inquisitors have "bit" more authority than Guard commanders(as in obey or you better have ability to kill me)
And yet Inquisitors still have to petition for aid from their respective Chambers Militant.
The powers of an Inquisitor's authority are theoretically infinite, but spend too much time abusing said authority or try to brute force someone who isn't scared of your threats and see how it goes.
Also, we had female Inquisitor models. A couple of them, in fact, with the Witchhunters book back in the day.
Yep, think I still have an unopened box with the Inquisitor and retinue in the attic. If the drop ship rumour pans out I may have to paint here up as Inquisitor Ripley, along with a squad or two of ultimate bad asses Regarding the Deathwatch background, the RPG from Fantasy Flight has some excellent stuff in it. Hopefully GW wont totally contradict it with the codex.
I wonder how GW will handle the chapter pads in this kit. I expect transfers because its eaiser to have a ton of chapter symbols that way, but I could see them going with molded pads. I wonder if they'll release one of those masive transfer sheets like they did with Skitarii and the Tau for even more options.
I imagine that this is a multi-part plastic kit with separate pads. If GW was smart, they'd make this new Deathwath an advertisement for their upgrade sprues and FW parts. All it would take is a small catalog of all their chapter sprues, shoulder pads and FW pads and possibly a showcase of novels that deal with the Deathwatch and the advertised chapters. It could fetch them another pile of pretty pennies in addition to the money the deathwatch box would rake in.
Probably transfers unfortunately. Although there are a few chapters that use the same badge with different colours, having enough different designs to avoid repetition could fill a tac squad sized sprue.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Probably transfers unfortunately. Although there are a few chapters that use the same badge with different colours, having enough different designs to avoid repetition could fill a tac squad sized sprue.
Yearh, that's a really good point. But it's all the more reason to advertise the chapter-specific kits and bling GW and FW have released over the years.
MacMuckles wrote: I wonder how GW will handle the chapter pads in this kit. I expect transfers because its eaiser to have a ton of chapter symbols that way, but I could see them going with molded pads. I wonder if they'll release one of those masive transfer sheets like they did with Skitarii and the Tau for even more options.
I imagine that this is a multi-part plastic kit with separate pads. If GW was smart, they'd make this new Deathwath an advertisement for their upgrade sprues and FW parts. All it would take is a small catalog of all their chapter sprues, shoulder pads and FW pads and possibly a showcase of novels that deal with the Deathwatch and the advertised chapters. It could fetch them another pile of pretty pennies in addition to the money the deathwatch box would rake in.
Considering how many Chapters don't even have GW available transfer sheets?
Yeah. It's a great chance for them to do transfers.
I'd be very interested to see how it turns out. Personally i'd love it as a stand alone army that can support itself rather than be taken as a detachment to support another army.
I'd also be very curious to see how they cater for the various chapters, whether they will be mono pose like the Overkill box and set (SW, DA, Scars, etc ) or if theyd just be a mix , or if youd be able to buy upgrade kits for Squads so like a SW Death watch upgrade kit to tack onto a Wolf Pack, etc.
Now that is a sweet model. Anything like that would make fantastic opportunities to just sink a week of spare time into one glorious marine
BrookM wrote:Quite interested to see how the dropship will turn out.
Me too, i'm wondering how it will come out. I for some reason envisioned something like the new Stormhawk ( new Talon variant) in its style and design just larger.
My money on the Deathwatch dropship is a remodelled version of this thing -
Spoiler:
Step 1: Remove all Wolves
Step 2: Take off the top air intake thingy
Step 3: Paint it black
Step 4: Add giant silver =][= to the top and lots of silver =][= gubbinses everywhere.
It allows for a ship to drop off your cool dudes into battle, but also can be made into something that can shoot stuff decently well.
Vain wrote: My money on the Deathwatch dropship is a remodelled version of this thing -
Spoiler:
Step 1: Remove all Wolves
Step 2: Take off the top air intake thingy
Step 3: Paint it black
Step 4: Add giant silver =][= to the top and lots of silver =][= gubbinses everywhere.
It allows for a ship to drop off your cool dudes into battle, but also can be made into something that can shoot stuff decently well.
I would be on board with that. The Stormwolf is actually a pretty cool model, so if I get a reason to have it, by all means.
If history is any indicator.....every time I convert up an army, GW comes out with models for it, or changes the rules and makes my models illegal.
I just did 2 squads of sternguard, 15 regular tactical DW marines, and some assorted special weapon/devastator/assault/vanguard marines. and 2 units of scouts. ( all told about 70 guys)
Vain wrote: My money on the Deathwatch dropship is a remodelled version of this thing -
Spoiler:
Step 1: Remove all Wolves
Step 2: Take off the top air intake thingy
Step 3: Paint it black
Step 4: Add giant silver =][= to the top and lots of silver =][= gubbinses everywhere.
It allows for a ship to drop off your cool dudes into battle, but also can be made into something that can shoot stuff decently well.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: lol - special character Artemis, assault space marine with a power sword and a boltgun with sight on it.
Boring character, in a boring codex. Stop the boner jamming
Assault marine? Assault marine is these days any PA with sword in his hand? Don't recall any fluff specifically mentioning what kind of marine he was in his chapter.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: lol - special character Artemis, assault space marine with a power sword and a boltgun with sight on it.
Boring character, in a boring codex. Stop the boner jamming
Assault marine? Assault marine is these days any PA with sword in his hand? Don't recall any fluff specifically mentioning what kind of marine he was in his chapter.
He was a Captain, so he was probably everything at one point...
MacMuckles wrote: I wonder how GW will handle the chapter pads in this kit. I expect transfers because its eaiser to have a ton of chapter symbols that way, but I could see them going with molded pads. I wonder if they'll release one of those masive transfer sheets like they did with Skitarii and the Tau for even more options.
I imagine that this is a multi-part plastic kit with separate pads. If GW was smart, they'd make this new Deathwath an advertisement for their upgrade sprues and FW parts. All it would take is a small catalog of all their chapter sprues, shoulder pads and FW pads and possibly a showcase of novels that deal with the Deathwatch and the advertised chapters. It could fetch them another pile of pretty pennies in addition to the money the deathwatch box would rake in.
Considering how many Chapters don't even have GW available transfer sheets?
Yeah. It's a great chance for them to do transfers.
I think it'll just end up a reason for GW to web-bundle and sell those chapter upgrade blisters.
I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.
General Kroll wrote: I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.
That would make me happy.
What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?
General Kroll wrote: I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.
That would make me happy.
What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?
Because if they are going to be super powerful elite space marines, then they would just make normal marines utterly imbalanced. That's what I figured anyway. Do they even work with normal chapters in the fluff?
General Kroll wrote: I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.
That would make me happy.
What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?
Because if they are going to be super powerful elite space marines, then they would just make normal marines utterly imbalanced. That's what I figured anyway. Do they even work with normal chapters in the fluff?
Yep they do, sometimes they are sent in alone as Kill teams - usually when the Inquisition or other powers ask, sometimes they act with other Astartes.
GW makes mainly Marines and they sell the most of them - because they are the largest range, so they make less other stuff so it sells less, so they make more Marines and it sells more than the stuff they make less off - and so on.
General Kroll wrote: I don't see the point in GW making yet another stand-alone marine army. We already have a tonne of those. I hope that the deathwatch are a limited ally only force that cannot be allied to other space marines, and are something akin to marines from the fluff. Obviously not as powerful, but completely bad ass all the same.
That would make me happy.
What? Why should they not be able to ally with other SMs?
Because if they are going to be super powerful elite space marines, then they would just make normal marines utterly imbalanced. That's what I figured anyway. Do they even work with normal chapters in the fluff?
Yes, they work with other Chapters in the fluff. The Deathwatch Ignition book has a few instances of this happening. The one that comes to mind the best is Drenn Redblade's story which has the Deathwatch allying with the Space Wolves to battle Orks.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
The Return to Damnos story has a DeathWatch Killteam working with the Ultramarines. They even give Sicarius a Vortex Grenade, which he uses to off a Transcendent Ctan that is on a rampage through the Necron and UM lines.
Then they slag the Necron Overlord in his tomb complex.
Personally I want parts for a Deathwatch Dread. Just a bit that fits over a Dread's shoulder would be enough.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
And when you happen upon a Carnifex? Or a Hammerhead?
Personally I want parts for a Deathwatch Dread. Just a bit that fits over a Dread's shoulder would be enough.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
And when you happen upon a Carnifex? Or a Hammerhead?
Well, against a Carnifex, the Lascannon wounds on 2s, the Frag Cannon wounds on 3s. But the Frag Cannon gets more shots so it ends up winning out. But, obviously a vehicle hunting weapon will be better against a vehicle, but the Frag Cannon still can get the job done.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.
The Frag Cannon is a Str 7 weapon. It will do admirably against most vehicles. And it can take elect to fire its Str 6 template shot to deal with the occupants when the vehicle is disabled.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.
The Frag Cannon is a Str 7 weapon. It will do admirably against most vehicles. And it can take elect to fire its Str 6 template shot to deal with the occupants when the vehicle is disabled.
It won't hurt anything with AV14 and struggle against AV13.
Yes frag cannon is good weapon but it's not ultimate "I'm going to kill everything with it". There's definitely role for lascannon so why on earth military force of Ordo Xenos would NOT wield it? Hardly super rare equipment and Inquisitors have enough clout to arm their military force pretty damn well...Ubiquous lascannon is no brainer.
But yeah. Let's bring in only frag cannons against monolith because...reasons! That's going to work really well!
tneva82 wrote: Yes frag cannon is good weapon but it's not ultimate "I'm going to kill everything with it". There's definitely role for lascannon so why on earth military force of Ordo Xenos would NOT wield it? Hardly super rare equipment and Inquisitors have enough clout to arm their military force pretty damn well...Ubiquous lascannon is no brainer.
But yeah. Let's bring in only frag cannons against monolith because...reasons! That's going to work really well!
That's not what he started out saying though. He was saying that if they release a kit for the DW, he'd like to see the frag cannon for the anti-big stuff role. He can get lascannons elsewhere.
tneva82 wrote: Yes frag cannon is good weapon but it's not ultimate "I'm going to kill everything with it". There's definitely role for lascannon so why on earth military force of Ordo Xenos would NOT wield it? Hardly super rare equipment and Inquisitors have enough clout to arm their military force pretty damn well...Ubiquous lascannon is no brainer.
But yeah. Let's bring in only frag cannons against monolith because...reasons! That's going to work really well!
That's not what he started out saying though. He was saying that if they release a kit for the DW, he'd like to see the frag cannon for the anti-big stuff role. He can get lascannons elsewhere.
And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.
casvalremdeikun wrote: And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.
I agree with you. Give them the option for a lascannon, by all means. For the love of god though, don't have it take up valuable space on an upgrade frame!
I agree. If there's a baseline deathwatch kit, it should come with frag launchers and other more exotic weaponry than what gets issued to standard marines.
If I want to give my DW lascannons, I can buy a Devastator kit and kit bash.
If deathwatch need to kill vehicles and big nasties, they aren't going to use a lascannon or a frag cannon, they will bring a gravcannon with amp, like other marines.
Next stupid argument please.
I'll add, whilst deathwatch would use lascannons for anti tank at times, it doesn't fit their mobility, they don't tend to hunker down and shoot from long range on their missions, they get up close and stick a melta bomb, aim a melta gun at it or stick a power fist through it, or fire a grav cannon at it whilst on the move. I think it would be great if they got underslung grenade launchers on their bolt guns with one off ammo as well. So it would work a combi weapon, but would be more than one use, the grenades would be multi use, and possibly be able to fire in the same turn as the bolter,
They should all be relentless when equipped with a bolter as well, and 2 attacks base (to mimic the old true grit rules where they can fire one handed and hold a H2H in the other.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, the reason I suspect it will be the Sternguard kit is also because it includes two very DW items, the Heavy Flamer and the Heavy Bolter. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a DW Marine to be toting something like a Lascannon around. Especially with the DW Frag Cannon fulfilling the role of monster killing better. Even just the regular Tactical Kit would be a good option. Obviously, one could probably include Marines of a different type like an Assault Marine, but Devastators are handled fairly well already.
How much do you know about the Deathwatch? They basically have access to everything.
The issue, to me, isn't that they wouldn't have the Lascannon. They absolutely would. They just have more appropriate options for use against Xenos. If they want to tote a Lascannon, be my guest. But when the Frag Cannon is a more versatile option, why would you?
Maybe because xenos aren't all squishy flesh and blood? They tend to have these things called "vechiles" and lascannon is vechile busting weapon. Funny that bringing in anti tank weaponry if you expect to face tanks.
The Frag Cannon is a Str 7 weapon. It will do admirably against most vehicles. And it can take elect to fire its Str 6 template shot to deal with the occupants when the vehicle is disabled.
"Whoa Bro Seph, leave the Lascannon at home! While it's better against heavy vehicles, the Frag Cannon still has a baseline strength of 7, and also has the template option. It's a much more versatile weapon."
"What in the Emperor's name are you on about?"
I don't think the DW are choosing one weapon over the other for their 40k stats.
casvalremdeikun wrote: And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.
I agree with you. Give them the option for a lascannon, by all means. For the love of god though, don't have it take up valuable space on an upgrade frame!
absolutely. I am not saying that they shouldn't have access to the Lascannon. I am saying, for what they do, the Lascannon isn't a great option for the DW a lot of the time. It is unwieldy and would slow the squad down.
casvalremdeikun wrote: And I stand by that statement too. I want stuff that is exclusive to the DW.
I agree with you. Give them the option for a lascannon, by all means. For the love of god though, don't have it take up valuable space on an upgrade frame!
absolutely. I am not saying that they shouldn't have access to the Lascannon. I am saying, for what they do, the Lascannon isn't a great option for the DW a lot of the time. It is unwieldy and would slow the squad down.
If history is any indicator.....every time I convert up an army, GW comes out with models for it, or changes the rules and makes my models illegal.
I just did 2 squads of sternguard, 15 regular tactical DW marines, and some assorted special weapon/devastator/assault/vanguard marines. and 2 units of scouts. ( all told about 70 guys)
Let's see how they screw me this time!!!! LOL
Seconded I feel you there the invalidated my DE build with this codex and i'm sitting on a battle company worth of deathwatch conversions minus vehicles as I felt drop pods more fluffy. But I want frag cannons and a new flyer. The deathwatch have access to xenos tech also. It is mentioned in fluff that they are the one's who brought the phase blade to the Imperium. Perhaps some non overheating plasma? or some of the ordo xenia inquisitor war gear choices. Plasma siphon venom talon crazy grenades .... deathwatch sniper's with an Imperial ossification gun? lots of fun fluffy options. Suspension webbing giving relentless at a hit to range. Old marine codex had assault heavy bolter. A 24in. Lascannon anyone?
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Some of us old grognards just hate trees.
I have a iPad, but don’t generally bring it to the FLGS. And a phone screen sucks for reading/reference. I like to have a book sitting at the side of the table. Easier to flip through, bookmark, and have multiple books open at once to cross-check.
Plus it gets to stay on the shelf forever as a reference. Digital isn’t as reliable for that.
I’m much more likely to pick up a paper book then a digital one.
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Only if you have such devices that can read them - having it in both formats is better as it caters for both markets - otherwise I just have to have it printed.
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Unless, you know, you can't afford a tablet. Or you have some awareness of the pretty horrifying reality when you go down the chain of tech production and so choose to minimise the number of devices you own so you contribute to that as little as possible. Or electronic screens give you eyestrain. Or you just prefer the user experience of books to tablets. Or you like to actually own the things you buy rather than simply being granted a conditional license that in theory can be revoked at any time.
And it's stupid because together, all those and other reasons will be a non-trivial number of potential customers and by going digital only you're leaving most of their money on the table.
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Unless, you know, you can't afford a tablet. Or you have some awareness of the pretty horrifying reality when you go down the chain of tech production and so choose to minimise the number of devices you own so you contribute to that as little as possible. Or electronic screens give you eyestrain. Or you just prefer the user experience of books to tablets. Or you like to actually own the things you buy rather than simply being granted a conditional license that in theory can be revoked at any time.
And it's stupid because together, all those and other reasons will be a non-trivial number of potential customers and by going digital only you're leaving most of their money on the table.
You don't own phone?
And good luck for companies trying to prevent you from reading ebook you have bought. They ain't going to succeed in that. Ebook is THE safest format for being able to read in future. Regular books wear down, can be burned down in accident, can be stolen. Ebooks...Only way I can't read them after buying is by dying.
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Unless, you know, you can't afford a tablet. Or you have some awareness of the pretty horrifying reality when you go down the chain of tech production and so choose to minimise the number of devices you own so you contribute to that as little as possible. Or electronic screens give you eyestrain. Or you just prefer the user experience of books to tablets. Or you like to actually own the things you buy rather than simply being granted a conditional license that in theory can be revoked at any time.
And it's stupid because together, all those and other reasons will be a non-trivial number of potential customers and by going digital only you're leaving most of their money on the table.
You don't own phone?
And good luck for companies trying to prevent you from reading ebook you have bought. They ain't going to succeed in that. Ebook is THE safest format for being able to read in future. Regular books wear down, can be burned down in accident, can be stolen. Ebooks...Only way I can't read them after buying is by dying.
Or the power goes out for an extended period of time.
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Unless, you know, you can't afford a tablet. Or you have some awareness of the pretty horrifying reality when you go down the chain of tech production and so choose to minimise the number of devices you own so you contribute to that as little as possible. Or electronic screens give you eyestrain. Or you just prefer the user experience of books to tablets. Or you like to actually own the things you buy rather than simply being granted a conditional license that in theory can be revoked at any time.
And it's stupid because together, all those and other reasons will be a non-trivial number of potential customers and by going digital only you're leaving most of their money on the table.
.....
Ebooks...Only way I can't read them after buying is by dying.
If you believe this you are an idiot. Apple has already proven how unsafe electronic media storage is. Physical copies of media can only be controlled by one person - the owner. This is not true for electronics.
Panic wrote: yeah,
Also you can sell a soft/hardback copy on when your done with it.
Can't do that with digital copy.
In fact I think you pay for it but you don't actually own a digital copy...
Panic...
Yeah I forget the proper name. Leasing? Renting? Licensing? What ever that is suppose to mean.
That said, hoping there is an iPad interactive version for it. I like having the explanations of rules at a touch of a finger or click of a mouse. I wonder why there is no non iPad interactive versions of the rules and books.
When it comes to DW, I think the approach GW seems to be taking is a good idea. Grey Knights are elite and DW have to be distinctive and elite in a different sort of way. DW have their unique gear and powers but it's more about the melding and cooperation of characters that for all intents and purposes are on the path to becoming significant figures in their respective chapters. If they aren't a captain or some other prominent rank one day they will be, assuming they survive. That's because that is the type of marines who go into it.
I think the codex should be a relatively small corps of troop choices but where the predominant driver of the armies capabilities takes the form of a large number of Special and generic characters that get mixed in. A loyalist marine army where every model has 2 wounds and a decent arsenal, where chapter tactics can mix is a very distinct play style.
I don't want to see cookie cutter units like a "Deathwatch tactical squad" or "Death Watch terminator squad"... The death watch in many ways go beyond those conventions. For example a Death Watch army would have several guys similar to any one of the characters from the board game, so a terminator squad of almost-captains should be built more around that premise and be balanced with that in mind. For example I think it's the sort of place where it'd be more appropriate to bring back something resembling the recon terminator squads; a squad of three well equipped terminators in this instance where the smaller numbers balance the capabilities of three characters. I'm not saying it has to be that, just that there needs to be thought beyond lifting standard marine units adding "Deathwatch" to the name and a few weapon options.
Yeah Deathwatch are cool. They are like the navy seals of the space marines. Using superior training, prototytpe tech, and the best current technology they can get their hands on. And then just being super good at all combat stuff.
I personally hope that the Deathwatch codex doesn't have units. That you take separate model, give them unique wargear, and then bunch them up. Taking a 'Deathwatch Tactical Squad' would be boring.
Matthew wrote: I personally hope that the Deathwatch codex doesn't have units. That you take separate model, give them unique wargear, and then bunch them up. Taking a 'Deathwatch Tactical Squad' would be boring.
Well, if they have the same or greater level of customization as a squad of Sternguard, wouldn't that be much of the same thing? Definitely agreed though, Kill Teams should be very spread out in terms of abilities.
Matthew wrote: I personally hope that the Deathwatch codex doesn't have units. That you take separate model, give them unique wargear, and then bunch them up. Taking a 'Deathwatch Tactical Squad' would be boring.
Im inclined to agree with this. If they did i could see me actually getting a box simply so i could , convert a few.
kronk wrote: So, will the Deathwatch Codex be a hardback codex, or stupid digital only?
How is digital only stupid? Paper creates clutter. Having it on tablet or phone is much better.
Unless, you know, you can't afford a tablet. Or you have some awareness of the pretty horrifying reality when you go down the chain of tech production and so choose to minimise the number of devices you own so you contribute to that as little as possible. Or electronic screens give you eyestrain. Or you just prefer the user experience of books to tablets. Or you like to actually own the things you buy rather than simply being granted a conditional license that in theory can be revoked at any time.
And it's stupid because together, all those and other reasons will be a non-trivial number of potential customers and by going digital only you're leaving most of their money on the table.
You don't own phone?
And good luck for companies trying to prevent you from reading ebook you have bought. They ain't going to succeed in that. Ebook is THE safest format for being able to read in future. Regular books wear down, can be burned down in accident, can be stolen. Ebooks...Only way I can't read them after buying is by dying.
Or unless the download link being removed, and GW doesn't exactly encourage much faith. Sorry.
My bank won't allow me to purchase from Black Library, for some reason. It has something to do with the small purchases (I have only tried to buy some dataslates), but if the DW codex is digital only, I will probably end up needing to pirate it if I want to have it. Not condoning piracy, but I would literally be unable to purchase it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bank won't allow me to purchase from Black Library, for some reason. It has something to do with the small purchases (I have only tried to buy some dataslates), but if the DW codex is digital only, I will probably end up needing to pirate it if I want to have it. Not condoning piracy, but I would literally be unable to purchase it.
Small transactions are apparently how fraudsters try their luck. Lots of little transactions before they start mining funds. Cards are also usually limited to 15 transactions a day. Might be worth having a word with your bank/card provider about that.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bank won't allow me to purchase from Black Library, for some reason. It has something to do with the small purchases (I have only tried to buy some dataslates), but if the DW codex is digital only, I will probably end up needing to pirate it if I want to have it. Not condoning piracy, but I would literally be unable to purchase it.
Small transactions are apparently how fraudsters try their luck. Lots of little transactions before they start mining funds. Cards are also usually limited to 15 transactions a day. Might be worth having a word with your bank/card provider about that.
That was what they told me when I asked them. Unfortunately, they said it was a safeguard that could not be disabled. My bank was bought by a larger bank recently, so I am hoping for it to no longer be a problem. The issue is that Black Library is based out of the UK. I do all sorts of small transactions online for stuff like comic books and never encounter issues. But that is from US-based companies.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bank won't allow me to purchase from Black Library, for some reason. It has something to do with the small purchases (I have only tried to buy some dataslates), but if the DW codex is digital only, I will probably end up needing to pirate it if I want to have it. Not condoning piracy, but I would literally be unable to purchase it.
Small transactions are apparently how fraudsters try their luck. Lots of little transactions before they start mining funds. Cards are also usually limited to 15 transactions a day. Might be worth having a word with your bank/card provider about that.
That was what they told me when I asked them. Unfortunately, they said it was a safeguard that could not be disabled. My bank was bought by a larger bank recently, so I am hoping for it to no longer be a problem. The issue is that Black Library is based out of the UK. I do all sorts of small transactions online for stuff like comic books and never encounter issues. But that is from US-based companies.
Slightly off topic. But the solution might be to get a pre paid debit card, I don't know what their availability is like in the states. But it basically works like a credit card that you pay for up front. Very easy to get hold of over here, and should solve your problems. It sucks that your bank won't let you spend your own money.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bank won't allow me to purchase from Black Library, for some reason. It has something to do with the small purchases (I have only tried to buy some dataslates), but if the DW codex is digital only, I will probably end up needing to pirate it if I want to have it. Not condoning piracy, but I would literally be unable to purchase it.
Small transactions are apparently how fraudsters try their luck. Lots of little transactions before they start mining funds. Cards are also usually limited to 15 transactions a day. Might be worth having a word with your bank/card provider about that.
That was what they told me when I asked them. Unfortunately, they said it was a safeguard that could not be disabled. My bank was bought by a larger bank recently, so I am hoping for it to no longer be a problem. The issue is that Black Library is based out of the UK. I do all sorts of small transactions online for stuff like comic books and never encounter issues. But that is from US-based companies.
Slightly off topic. But the solution might be to get a pre paid debit card, I don't know what their availability is like in the states. But it basically works like a credit card that you pay for up front. Very easy to get hold of over here, and should solve your problems. It sucks that your bank won't let you spend your own money.
Tried that. They are only usable for purchases in the US and Canada, at least the ones I have been able to find.
Anyway, I am thinking this will be a physical book, probably around the size of the Scitarii book or Harlequins book.
very nice
