So I've noticed that every territory is being dominated by order. Also each pie chart from each region is roughly the same, which is pretty lame. You don't really get the sense that your actions mean anything in the large scheme of things. The charts more or less represent the volume of players that play each faction, and lets face it, order is pretty stacked. Not sure GW thought this one through...
Death= 1 army (undead)
Destruction= 2 armies (Orks and Ogres)
Chaos= 1.5 armies (Chaos and super-niche Beastmen)
Order= 8 armies ( Empire, Dwarves, Sylvenith, Serephon, Britonia, High Elves, Dark Elves, Stormcast)
All of GW's campaigns have been rigged to date. Order is supposed to win. If you're reading the narrative, Order is striking back and taking back their territory and winning.
Additionally, order has more factions and I would guess more players due to there being more factions (and the sylvaneth release has swelled their numbers for right now)
too many stormcast armies made from starter sets. im sure chaos will start to make its way in. We are literally on day 2............a bit too early to call it a dud.
Problem is that order and chaos(don't forget skaven is chaos now) is pretty much made up of majority of the old world factions. Plus they had several proper new releases. While death has only one battletome and even then it was a repackage. We have nothing that is pecking people's interest to play Death. We still have the same old zombies, Skeletons, grave guard and black knights haven't been reboxed. We don't even have a plastic vampire yet. So it's not really surprising this is happening. Plus destruction have the new Iron jaw's which are pretty popular with players. If I want to properly do my zombies I have the order in bases and the models are pretty old also.
Let's not forget the tomb king players who most likely left in droves. If death had a tomb king release that would of helped a ton instead of doing ghouls. Don't get me wrong ghouls are cool their fluff is awesome but let's be real here most undead players don't do ghoul armies. So yeah of course it's rigged it's the reason why my GW manager said order is going to win straight up. Unless GW give's some sort of help to the other factions order is going to take this by a landslide.
I wouldn't say its rigged, but it IS favored for Order. And I believe that's by design; short of explicitly stating so the fluff has been very clear that Order is still threatened but has the upper hand in defending those cities. Also I doubt the timing of this with the Sylvaneth release was coincidental. The design is supposed to give the edge to Order, which I understand is indeed a buzzkill for some players. Personally I find it more engaging that way; realistically by the fluff each alliance would not have an equal chance here. Order would have the strongest shot at victory, followed by Chaos, then by Destruction/Death, which is what we are seeing initially. As for how things flow from here... we'll see. I would bet the numbers will shift this weekend since many stores probably have only a couple or even no games logged yet.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I wouldn't say its rigged, but it IS favored for Order. And I believe that's by design; short of explicitly stating so the fluff has been very clear that Order is still threatened but has the upper hand in defending those cities. Also I doubt the timing of this with the Sylvaneth release was coincidental. The design is supposed to give the edge to Order, which I understand is indeed a buzzkill for some players. Personally I find it more engaging that way; realistically by the fluff each alliance would not have an equal chance here. Order would have the strongest shot at victory, followed by Chaos, then by Destruction/Death, which is what we are seeing initially. As for how things flow from here... we'll see. I would bet the numbers will shift this weekend since many stores probably have only a couple or even no games logged yet.
Pretty much, order also had several new shiny releases unlike death. We have no chance of taking a city. I am at least hoping for a contested city at least.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I wouldn't say its rigged, but it IS favored for Order. And I believe that's by design; short of explicitly stating so the fluff has been very clear that Order is still threatened but has the upper hand in defending those cities. Also I doubt the timing of this with the Sylvaneth release was coincidental. The design is supposed to give the edge to Order, which I understand is indeed a buzzkill for some players. Personally I find it more engaging that way; realistically by the fluff each alliance would not have an equal chance here. Order would have the strongest shot at victory, followed by Chaos, then by Destruction/Death, which is what we are seeing initially. As for how things flow from here... we'll see. I would bet the numbers will shift this weekend since many stores probably have only a couple or even no games logged yet.
Pretty much, order also had several new shiny releases unlike death. We have no chance of taking a city. I am at least hoping for a contested city at least.
Also, its not like 'Order wins all cities so they win 100% in the fluf' they just say the results will be used to shape the fluff going forward. If order wins by a huge margin we will probably see that in the fluff, but if Order gets a narrow win only by virtue of getting 1/3 of a city when the rest is split up we will probably see that reflected instead. It isn't simply win or lose here, the proportions matter. Plus the fluff may very well skew things away from Order to compensate for their advantage; we don't know. If people want to throw up their hands and call it pointless already they can, but that seems like an awfully boring way of reacting and isn't the point here to have fun?
NinthMusketeer wrote: I wouldn't say its rigged, but it IS favored for Order. And I believe that's by design; short of explicitly stating so the fluff has been very clear that Order is still threatened but has the upper hand in defending those cities. Also I doubt the timing of this with the Sylvaneth release was coincidental. The design is supposed to give the edge to Order, which I understand is indeed a buzzkill for some players. Personally I find it more engaging that way; realistically by the fluff each alliance would not have an equal chance here. Order would have the strongest shot at victory, followed by Chaos, then by Destruction/Death, which is what we are seeing initially. As for how things flow from here... we'll see. I would bet the numbers will shift this weekend since many stores probably have only a couple or even no games logged yet.
Pretty much, order also had several new shiny releases unlike death. We have no chance of taking a city. I am at least hoping for a contested city at least.
Also, its not like 'Order wins all cities so they win 100% in the fluf' they just say the results will be used to shape the fluff going forward. If order wins by a huge margin we will probably see that in the fluff, but if Order gets a narrow win only by virtue of getting 1/3 of a city when the rest is split up we will probably see that reflected instead. It isn't simply win or lose here, the proportions matter. Plus the fluff may very well skew things away from Order to compensate for their advantage; we don't know. If people want to throw up their hands and call it pointless already they can, but that seems like an awfully boring way of reacting and isn't the point here to have fun?
Oh don't get me wrong I am going to keep trying and winning battles for nagash.
"Chaos Lords, Mortarchs and Warbosses: are you just going to stand there and let the God King claim the realm of Ghyran?"
It's just that I am making the point that GW is saying in their new post "Hey destruction and Death chaos and order are kicking your butts what are you doing?" I am just slightly rolling my eyes at what they are saying hell some people on facebook are surprised Death is losing by this much. It's not all that surprising to me when you have to smallest faction and the least updates and least amount of fluff out of the alliances. I am just a little salty. Don't mind me I am having fun.
Anyway it's too early to tell GW may surprise us with something.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I wouldn't say its rigged, but it IS favored for Order. And I believe that's by design; short of explicitly stating so the fluff has been very clear that Order is still threatened but has the upper hand in defending those cities. Also I doubt the timing of this with the Sylvaneth release was coincidental. The design is supposed to give the edge to Order, which I understand is indeed a buzzkill for some players. Personally I find it more engaging that way; realistically by the fluff each alliance would not have an equal chance here. Order would have the strongest shot at victory, followed by Chaos, then by Destruction/Death, which is what we are seeing initially. As for how things flow from here... we'll see. I would bet the numbers will shift this weekend since many stores probably have only a couple or even no games logged yet.
Pretty much, order also had several new shiny releases unlike death. We have no chance of taking a city. I am at least hoping for a contested city at least.
Also, its not like 'Order wins all cities so they win 100% in the fluf' they just say the results will be used to shape the fluff going forward. If order wins by a huge margin we will probably see that in the fluff, but if Order gets a narrow win only by virtue of getting 1/3 of a city when the rest is split up we will probably see that reflected instead. It isn't simply win or lose here, the proportions matter. Plus the fluff may very well skew things away from Order to compensate for their advantage; we don't know. If people want to throw up their hands and call it pointless already they can, but that seems like an awfully boring way of reacting and isn't the point here to have fun?
Oh don't get me wrong I am going to keep trying and winning battles for nagash.
"Chaos Lords, Mortarchs and Warbosses: are you just going to stand there and let the God King claim the realm of Ghyran?"
It's just that I am making the point that GW is saying in their new post "Hey destruction and Death chaos and order are kicking your butts what are you doing?" I am just slightly rolling my eyes at what they are saying hell some people on facebook are surprised Death is losing by this much. It's not all that surprising to me when you have to smallest faction and the least updates and least amount of fluff out of the alliances. I am just a little salty. Don't mind me I am having fun.
Anyway it's too early to tell GW may surprise us with something.
Dont stress it bro, all these other factions will die eventually and we get it all anyhow. Death always wins in the end.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I wouldn't say its rigged, but it IS favored for Order. And I believe that's by design; short of explicitly stating so the fluff has been very clear that Order is still threatened but has the upper hand in defending those cities. Also I doubt the timing of this with the Sylvaneth release was coincidental. The design is supposed to give the edge to Order, which I understand is indeed a buzzkill for some players. Personally I find it more engaging that way; realistically by the fluff each alliance would not have an equal chance here. Order would have the strongest shot at victory, followed by Chaos, then by Destruction/Death, which is what we are seeing initially. As for how things flow from here... we'll see. I would bet the numbers will shift this weekend since many stores probably have only a couple or even no games logged yet.
Pretty much, order also had several new shiny releases unlike death. We have no chance of taking a city. I am at least hoping for a contested city at least.
Also, its not like 'Order wins all cities so they win 100% in the fluf' they just say the results will be used to shape the fluff going forward. If order wins by a huge margin we will probably see that in the fluff, but if Order gets a narrow win only by virtue of getting 1/3 of a city when the rest is split up we will probably see that reflected instead. It isn't simply win or lose here, the proportions matter. Plus the fluff may very well skew things away from Order to compensate for their advantage; we don't know. If people want to throw up their hands and call it pointless already they can, but that seems like an awfully boring way of reacting and isn't the point here to have fun?
Oh don't get me wrong I am going to keep trying and winning battles for nagash.
"Chaos Lords, Mortarchs and Warbosses: are you just going to stand there and let the God King claim the realm of Ghyran?"
It's just that I am making the point that GW is saying in their new post "Hey destruction and Death chaos and order are kicking your butts what are you doing?" I am just slightly rolling my eyes at what they are saying hell some people on facebook are surprised Death is losing by this much. It's not all that surprising to me when you have to smallest faction and the least updates and least amount of fluff out of the alliances. I am just a little salty. Don't mind me I am having fun.
Anyway it's too early to tell GW may surprise us with something.
Dont stress it bro, all these other factions will die eventually and we get it all anyhow. Death always wins in the end.
Ha, indeed death is inevitable.
Still people on facebook telling us to try harder in the comment's slightly vexed me a bit.
Order's got a nice edge but this is only day two of a month long campaign.
If wars were decided by the initial wins then England conquered France in the hundred years war, America was won by the south and all the states are independent from eachother and Hitler is the second Emperor of Europe after Napoleon.
It's too early to say but Order may exhaust itself from these initial pushes and lose one or two of the cities. (Sigmar forbid)
Baron Klatz wrote: Order's got a nice edge but this is only day two of a month long campaign.
If wars were decided by the initial wins then England conquered France in the hundred years war, America was won by the south and all the states are independent from eachother and Hitler is the second Emperor of Europe after Napoleon.
It's too early to say but Order may exhaust itself from these initial pushes and lose one or two of the cities. (Sigmar forbid)
My dream outcome is Death taking a city we need some fluff.
Just to echo, order has gotten more releases, and as stated Sylva got a big release so that's even more.
Did you forget Archaeon won last time? Chaos blew up the old world. Hes more powerful then the 4(5?) gods as in the fluff, everything they throw at him he beats. They are actually afraid of his power
Looking at the Season of War website, I checked all of the participating stores in my area (Cincinnati, Dayton and Columbus OH; Lexington and Louisville KY and Indianapolis IN). So far only two stores have reported any battles and those two don't look like they've had more than a handful of battles. Its way too early yet to come to any conclusions about the campaign.
I mean, I hope it's not rigged, and I don't know that I'd buy the argument that they intentionally planned out their releases this way to favour Order, but I'm glad that for the most part Order is holding.
Chaos already won and destroyed the old world, and they'd won Storm of Chaos too.
Nagash is just a twit - betrays Sigmar twice (first time before the whole stormcast thing) and then still has the gall to go around telling all and sundry that somehow HE's been betrayed.
Can't complain about Gork (or was it Mork) though, Sigmar should have probably seen that one coming. And at least he isn't a whiny deluded clown who thinks everyone else is the problem.
woah.
The map looks the same now but check your local store for live updates. We just finished our first game and the week 1 scenario was an excellent scenario for any level of army count. Don't agree at all that it's stacked, even though my Fyreslayers favor Order (or, at least until the next higher bidder comes along... )
bob82ca wrote: So I've noticed that every territory is being dominated by order. Also each pie chart from each region is roughly the same, which is pretty lame. You don't really get the sense that your actions mean anything in the large scheme of things. The charts more or less represent the volume of players that play each faction, and lets face it, order is pretty stacked. Not sure GW thought this one through...
Death= 1 army (undead)
Destruction= 2 armies (Orks and Ogres)
Chaos= 1.5 armies (Chaos and super-niche Beastmen)
Order= 8 armies ( Empire, Dwarves, Sylvenith, Serephon, Britonia, High Elves, Dark Elves, Stormcast)
Just going to have to poke fun at you real quick. Simplifying chaos into 1.5 is ridiculous. Obviously you have a bone to pick with order because you have split them all up. So let me do the same for chaos. Beastmen, skaven, 4 varieties of demons, chaos warriors, and a random smattering of other units that could equal 8 armies as well. Once again another random person on the internet needing to find a reason to be mad at GW.
Also, Order gets Bretonnia but Death doesn't get Tomb kings? (I know what Shinros said about their players but there are still AoS tomb king armies as much as Bretonnian ones.)
Chaos also has chaos dwarfs and Destruction has Grots.(alot of spider Grotling armies out there)
Baron Klatz wrote: Also, Order gets Bretonnia but Death doesn't get Tomb kings? (I know what Shinros said about their players but there are still AoS tomb king armies as much as Bretonnian ones.)
Chaos also has chaos dwarfs and Destruction has Grots.(alot of spider Grotling armies out there)
I was making the point that Bret's and Tomb King players quit in droves for obvious reasons if tomb kings have been updated for AOS that would of helped Death's win percentage. Still even if it's like the second day look at the win percentage graph only chaos has any hope of catching up and the actual numbers are on the grand alliance community order is charging ahead in terms of points unless majority of them stop playing it's going to stay that way. Still the campaign is about fun and doing the hobby so that's what I will do.
I'm not sure if it's global, but at least around here they don't count the results of same faction match ups. So order vs order means nothing at all to the campaign results and doesn't get counted.
As it is destruction is currently in the lead as well, not that it matters so much overall it seems.
But the biggest thing going for order are the stormcast and the sylvaneth hype train mostly.
Like really people why is this a conversation? 2 days in...... could we please at least read the first chapter before judging the entire content of the book
Ghaz wrote: Looking at the Season of War website, I checked all of the participating stores in my area (Cincinnati, Dayton and Columbus OH; Lexington and Louisville KY and Indianapolis IN). So far only two stores have reported any battles and those two don't look like they've had more than a handful of battles. Its way too early yet to come to any conclusions about the campaign.
Louisville is going to have about six - eight battles done over the weekend for it. Though we are heavily chaos dominant.
Like really people why is this a conversation? 2 days in...... could we please at least read the first chapter before judging the entire content of the book
GW has a long way to go before people can trust them completely. What part of that you don't understand? GW rigged results before. GW totally ignored results before. So why are you yelling at us?
Hey that is great you think GW is all rainbows and unicorns now, but for a lot of us, while we are giving GW a second, third, forth chance, we may forgive, but we don't forget. For us we know GW is not all rainbows and unicorns so are leary.
Like really people why is this a conversation? 2 days in...... could we please at least read the first chapter before judging the entire content of the book
GW has a long way to go before people can trust them completely. What part of that you don't understand? GW rigged results before. GW totally ignored results before. So why are you yelling at us?
Hey that is great you think GW is all rainbows and unicorns now, but for a lot of us, while we are giving GW a second, third, forth chance, we may forgive, but we don't forget. For us we know GW is not all rainbows and unicorns so are leary.
Judge it when its done. Like day one this came out and people said it was rigged. Seriously?? Does it even matter if it is? This is literally complaining just to complain at this point. Even if this is rigged when have you ever been able to decide how a game's story progresses? Did gw ask you how you wanted the end times to happen? nope. Does any other game? NOPE. So youre really going to complain about this? Statistics say order would be winning because it has the largest number of factions thus players. They have done you such injustice by creating this narrative (rigged or not) asking nothing from you but to play games. Sure they want you to buy stuff but is that really a requirement to be involved? No. So please don't cry social injustice because you feel as if GW screwed your boyfriend toto. So put down your pitchforks and torches because all of this nonsense is really just stuff we laugh about in the game store, or don't. Its quite hilarious
Like really people why is this a conversation? 2 days in...... could we please at least read the first chapter before judging the entire content of the book
GW has a long way to go before people can trust them completely. What part of that you don't understand? GW rigged results before. GW totally ignored results before. So why are you yelling at us?
Hey that is great you think GW is all rainbows and unicorns now, but for a lot of us, while we are giving GW a second, third, forth chance, we may forgive, but we don't forget. For us we know GW is not all rainbows and unicorns so are leary.
Because people don't know about those? Because people are whining incessantly and it gets irritating.
I played the 1st Season of War Scenario today. My opponent was great, our FLGS was great, a staffer there arranged a table with terrain chosen and arranged especially for the scenario. Very exciting.
I used a Death faction list. My opponent used Chaos. I scraped by barely with a win, but I had seen the overall worldwide results and knew we were the underdogs, but just speaking for myself, it didn't bother me that much. I want to be competitive, but I also fully accept my faction is like playing on Hardcore Mode, but I'm okay with it. Just having my results entered into the Season of War site, being able to see the results of other stores in our region, it was exhilarating.
I didn't realise the skew from the results so far really bothered people, but I think I can understand why, and even though I don't feel strongly about it, I see what you're talking about.
---
The skew for Order, which I did notice, I'm really unsure if it's deliberate rigging on GW's part. I'm with many of you that think it's just the way the factions are organised, where Order includes: Stormcast Celestials, Dwarves, Elves, Dark Elves, Dryads, then Empire, Bretonnians, and even Lizardmen all in 1 category. That's a lot of armies and a lot of players all falling into 1 category!
To compare, Death is...just the Undead. We can split them into Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, then the Ghoul Court if you really want to split hairs, but of course we're outnumbered IMHO.
The statistical problem, again just IMHO, was that the categorising of the 4 Alliances seems to put way too many armies as part of Order. Now, if you want to point out "that's how ingrained their favouritism for Order is, that they included so many armies in there", that might be a fair point. It just seems they could have divided all the different races a bit more evenly maybe?
I don't know, but I do see both sides of the discussion here. It just happens that for some reason, it doesn't bother me as much, though I don't disregard that you feel strongly about that. I'm totally cool with it.
----
Something has bothered me for real, however. It's not big enough to suggest AoS is a dud, but I felt it's a gaffe right out of the starting gate.
(Please note, it didn't affect me, so I don't have a personal bias against the below, but I think it might have seriously impacted other players.)
I found out today, right as I showed up to participate in the campaign, there was a condition for the scenario not mentioned anywhere. You have to bring 3 x 10+ units as a criteria, on top of the rest of your army. 30 models to me, and to you, isn't a big deal. But I'm thinking of the kids who saved up for their AoS Starter Set, painted up the Stormcast Celestials badly yet proudly, all 18 of them, thinking they did exactly what GW wanted them to do, then realising they can't even properly participate.
The General's Handbook did introduce a sort of Force Organisation Chart (1-4 Leaders, 2+ Battlelines, 0-2 Artillery, 0-2 Behemoths, etc.) This scenario just followed its own FOC, which could seriously impact lists even more experience players, who were just trying to put together with the new points system.
(I'm sure most stores actually waive this 3 x 10+ models units criteria, but players might actually just get the sense that they're a little ostracised, in an even that's supposed to be welcoming.)
AoS is still in its early stages, and it's supposed to be simpler, more accessible, more of an entry-level game, thus its simpler rules. Right at the starting gate, they squash that very enthusiasm for newcomers by suddenly raising the barrier to entry in what's supposed to be a fun event. Keep in mind the scenarios are not posted online, I'm not even sure if subsequent ones have been released to the FLGS, so it's not like we could plan in advance.
The worst part is, I'm wondering if a Warhammer Store Manager's response would be, "Well, just buy and quickly paint up more units, which will also increase your score on the Season of War site! Then you can play with them! Win-win!"
Like I said, not a big deal, but it was something that I felt did not make the best 1st impression.
bob82ca wrote: So I've noticed that every territory is being dominated by order. Also each pie chart from each region is roughly the same, which is pretty lame. You don't really get the sense that your actions mean anything in the large scheme of things. The charts more or less represent the volume of players that play each faction, and lets face it, order is pretty stacked. Not sure GW thought this one through...
Death= 1 army (undead)
Destruction= 2 armies (Orks and Ogres)
Chaos= 1.5 armies (Chaos and super-niche Beastmen)
Order= 8 armies ( Empire, Dwarves, Sylvenith, Serephon, Britonia, High Elves, Dark Elves, Stormcast)
Just going to have to poke fun at you real quick. Simplifying chaos into 1.5 is ridiculous. Obviously you have a bone to pick with order because you have split them all up. So let me do the same for chaos. Beastmen, skaven, 4 varieties of demons, chaos warriors, and a random smattering of other units that could equal 8 armies as well. Once again another random person on the internet needing to find a reason to be mad at GW.
Random person on the internet? Do you not know who I am?! I'm a pretty big deal buddy :p
Yeah I forgot about Skaven and was being a little bit of a $#!t by implying Beastmen don't count, but my point is that Order has by far the largest number of factions and the highest volume of active players. Do you deny this, or are you going to tell me that Order is winning because of superior tactics? Also regardless of how much variety Chaos has, we're talking factions man. I mean I could have added Old Dwarves and Old Wood Elves to Order as well, plenty of people play those armies (more than Beastmen).
But I'm not Salty in a competitive way. I'm just saying that I wish there was some rivalry to make for a good campaign. Like I play Death and I know they're not going to win, but it would be cool for instance if Chaos could catch up. Then at least I could play spoiler by denying points or something. Unfortunately Order has far too many factions for the other sides to compete.
I'm thinking they should have pit all of the enemy factions against Order. Order would still have the edge in total factions, but it would be much closer in the pie charts.
Like really people why is this a conversation? 2 days in...... could we please at least read the first chapter before judging the entire content of the book
GW has a long way to go before people can trust them completely. What part of that you don't understand? GW rigged results before. GW totally ignored results before. So why are you yelling at us?
Hey that is great you think GW is all rainbows and unicorns now, but for a lot of us, while we are giving GW a second, third, forth chance, we may forgive, but we don't forget. For us we know GW is not all rainbows and unicorns so are leary.
Judge it when its done. Like day one this came out and people said it was rigged. Seriously?? Does it even matter if it is? This is literally complaining just to complain at this point. Even if this is rigged when have you ever been able to decide how a game's story progresses? Did gw ask you how you wanted the end times to happen? nope. Does any other game? NOPE. So youre really going to complain about this? Statistics say order would be winning because it has the largest number of factions thus players. They have done you such injustice by creating this narrative (rigged or not) asking nothing from you but to play games. Sure they want you to buy stuff but is that really a requirement to be involved? No. So please don't cry social injustice because you feel as if GW screwed your boyfriend toto. So put down your pitchforks and torches because all of this nonsense is really just stuff we laugh about in the game store, or don't. Its quite hilarious
Hey you are the one who had to do giant letter. You are the one who is making it out to be something. It would have been a dead issue but to bring it up and in what size 20 or so lettering? Looks like you can't let it go and let people vent off a bit.
Like really people why is this a conversation? 2 days in...... could we please at least read the first chapter before judging the entire content of the book
GW has a long way to go before people can trust them completely. What part of that you don't understand? GW rigged results before. GW totally ignored results before. So why are you yelling at us?
Hey that is great you think GW is all rainbows and unicorns now, but for a lot of us, while we are giving GW a second, third, forth chance, we may forgive, but we don't forget. For us we know GW is not all rainbows and unicorns so are leary.
While I agree that his response was a bit overblown, I think referencing the previous rigged/ignored/retconned results from GW isn't a valid analogy. The crucial difference here is that AoS is a living world; the story is going to move forward regardless of the results, and in that light its rather nonsensical to ignore the results since the effort to write the story will still be made anyway. Previous situations were a case of moving forward a static setting that did not have a storyline or any sort of progression previously, and by disregarding the campaign results meant they no longer had to move the setting forward which provides a notable incentive to do so.
bob82ca wrote: So I've noticed that every territory is being dominated by order. Also each pie chart from each region is roughly the same, which is pretty lame. You don't really get the sense that your actions mean anything in the large scheme of things. The charts more or less represent the volume of players that play each faction, and lets face it, order is pretty stacked. Not sure GW thought this one through...
Death= 1 army (undead)
Destruction= 2 armies (Orks and Ogres)
Chaos= 1.5 armies (Chaos and super-niche Beastmen)
Order= 8 armies ( Empire, Dwarves, Sylvenith, Serephon, Britonia, High Elves, Dark Elves, Stormcast)
You do know that you can choose to fight for any Grand Alliance using any army, right?
Previously, I described my issue with Season of War was not in how one Faction or another had a skew, but that there was an accessibility issue because of the army list Week 1's Scenario required players to have.
Tailessine wrote: I would like to see which subfactions are doing best, as many are well formed armies in themselves
I'm really curious about this, too. I'll ask my FLGS what data they actually enter into the Season of War website, to see if they can even parse those details.
hobojebus wrote: Yeah it's rigged just like the 13th black crusade was.
Gw is to gutless to leave major world? Universe shaping events to chance.
Then again this time GW has no REASON to rig it. When fluff is set up so that the major sides are a) unlimited in numbers b) worlds are infinite in size there's no danger of "crap now it's all over". Unlike before where chaos troumping would result in game over so to speak this time order simply goes bit further and continues. This is neverending war without any chance of final victory.
hobojebus wrote: Yeah it's rigged just like the 13th black crusade was.
Gw is to gutless to leave major world? Universe shaping events to chance.
Then again this time GW has no REASON to rig it. When fluff is set up so that the major sides are a) unlimited in numbers b) worlds are infinite in size there's no danger of "crap now it's all over". Unlike before where chaos troumping would result in game over so to speak this time order simply goes bit further and continues. This is neverending war without any chance of final victory.
There is always a chance, but your right the worlds are big enough and story open enough that they can keep the story moving forward indefinitely and we can fight over cities and lands and put the outcome to the people without fear of making the story end.
Fezza213 wrote: There is always a chance, but your right the worlds are big enough and story open enough that they can keep the story moving forward indefinitely and we can fight over cities and lands and put the outcome to the people without fear of making the story end.
Big enough as in literally infinite. Sort of like our universum except not just expanding also creating world as it goes. Just like you can't hit edge of our universum(since it's expanding so bloody fast. Though makes one wonder what happens if the hot death theory is right and eventually universum starts to shrink? Would the edge then start to come back so that if you keep moving away from point it keeps going you would end up hitting the wall?) neither can you reach edge of AOS realm.
I can understand why some folks are suspicious from the start - in the past, GW has had a really hard time changing their universes in any tangible way, and the one time they did it was because failure to change it had led to it being criticized as stale, so they decided to just blow it up.
What has been the outcomes over the years?
I recall Armageddon ground to a stalemate - they just told us that it was a "war world" now and the conflict was never ending. Which was.. less than satisfying. Better option - say the planet fell, and introduce new campaigns about the Orks moving into the core worlds, or say the Imperium won and give us the final battle between Thraka and Yarrick.
The 13th Black Crusade was controversial - If I recall, the correct ending would have been that the Imperium was defending the space lanes, but Cadia itself fell to Chaos. This would have been a great ending, leading to a terrifying resurgence of Chaos through the broken gate world. Instead... I believe GW just gave us a "At first it looked like the Space Marines lost, but they didn't, they won. The End." Honestly, I blame it more on the plastic Imperial Guard kit being "Cadian" Imperial Guard, and GW having no idea what to do with that if Cadia stopped being a thing.
The Storm of Chaos I missed out on, but am I correct that Orks won it, which pleased no-one narratively? I recall Archaon appeared set to win, when he caught a crusade-ending headbutt. For my money, it would have been cooler if portions of the Empire had fallen to Chaos, not unlike how the Clans took a chunk of the Inner Sphere in the old Battletech game, so that future books could explore campaigns into the Chaos held domains.
Here's hoping GW is finally over their phobia of letting things change, especially with the AOS universe so malleable, without a thirty year old narrative to wreck if the "wrong" players happen to win.
Oggthrok wrote: I can understand why some folks are suspicious from the start - in the past, GW has had a really hard time changing their universes in any tangible way, and the one time they did it was because failure to change it had led to it being criticized as stale, so they decided to just blow it up.
What has been the outcomes over the years?
I recall Armageddon ground to a stalemate - they just told us that it was a "war world" now and the conflict was never ending. Which was.. less than satisfying. Better option - say the planet fell, and introduce new campaigns about the Orks moving into the core worlds, or say the Imperium won and give us the final battle between Thraka and Yarrick.
The 13th Black Crusade was controversial - If I recall, the correct ending would have been that the Imperium was defending the space lanes, but Cadia itself fell to Chaos. This would have been a great ending, leading to a terrifying resurgence of Chaos through the broken gate world. Instead... I believe GW just gave us a "At first it looked like the Space Marines lost, but they didn't, they won. The End." Honestly, I blame it more on the plastic Imperial Guard kit being "Cadian" Imperial Guard, and GW having no idea what to do with that if Cadia stopped being a thing.
The Storm of Chaos I missed out on, but am I correct that Orks won it, which pleased no-one narratively? I recall Archaon appeared set to win, when he caught a crusade-ending headbutt. For my money, it would have been cooler if portions of the Empire had fallen to Chaos, not unlike how the Clans took a chunk of the Inner Sphere in the old Battletech game, so that future books could explore campaigns into the Chaos held domains.
Here's hoping GW is finally over their phobia of letting things change, especially with the AOS universe so malleable, without a thirty year old narrative to wreck if the "wrong" players happen to win.
What is excellent about the realms are that they are virtually limitless. They can do anything with it and anything can appear from anywhere. The story has any possible outcome and can still make sense without running into any storyline complications. If chaos wins this campaign and continues to control the realm of life they can just create a place where she can retreat, etc. The outcome literally does not matter since it can easily go in any direction
Chaos won the Storm of Chaos. They dominated all aspects of the campaign, got to the White Wolf capital, and then everything got hand waived. Grimgor Ironhide headbutted archaon and walked off.
And then shortly after GW basically forgot that any of those events ever had happened.
auticus wrote: Chaos won the Storm of Chaos. They dominated all aspects of the campaign, got to the White Wolf capital, and then everything got hand waived. Grimgor Ironhide headbutted archaon and walked off.
And then shortly after GW basically forgot that any of those events ever had happened.
In fairness GW forgot about characters in End Times while writing it. They are not good.
auticus wrote: Chaos won the Storm of Chaos. They dominated all aspects of the campaign, got to the White Wolf capital, and then everything got hand waived. Grimgor Ironhide headbutted archaon and walked off.
And then shortly after GW basically forgot that any of those events ever had happened.
In fairness GW forgot about characters in End Times while writing it. They are not good.
End Times was kind of a hot mess from start to finish. It has been a while since I last read it, but I seem to recall there being more than a couple of unresolved plot threads. Setra stands out, but I think his story was resolved in one of the novels (which I didn't read).
auticus wrote: Chaos won the Storm of Chaos. They dominated all aspects of the campaign, got to the White Wolf capital, and then everything got hand waived. Grimgor Ironhide headbutted archaon and walked off.
And then shortly after GW basically forgot that any of those events ever had happened.
In fairness GW forgot about characters in End Times while writing it. They are not good.
End Times was kind of a hot mess from start to finish. It has been a while since I last read it, but I seem to recall there being more than a couple of unresolved plot threads. Setra stands out, but I think his story was resolved in one of the novels (which I didn't read).
My recollection is he fights Kholek Suneater and then vanishes. I don't remember it being resolved just there being more story before it vanishing.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Where are the mortal realms stated as being infinite? I keep hearing that and honestly want to go read whatever source includes it.
A bit of loose marketing fluff but not actually game fluff when the release came out last July. From a game event at Warhammer World. Internetz telephone after that. Maybe it came up again...? But they're goddamn vast though!
NinthMusketeer wrote: Where are the mortal realms stated as being infinite? I keep hearing that and honestly want to go read whatever source includes it.
They are not infinite, but "near" infinite most likely to give GW breathing room to add stuff in.
The impression I've gotten from the fluff is that each realm is the size of a world on it's own - making the collective setting quite vast but not anything like infinite. That we have a map of the Realm of Life suggests this as well. But again if they are actually stated to be infinite somewhere I'd like to read that content -- but now it seems like my problem is that they aren't stated to be as such anywhere written.
Regardless, the situation in regards to writing the story simply isn't the same as GWs previous campaigns with similar claims. AoS already has a living story that would have moved forward whether or not the campaign even happened. Thus, it would be nonsensical for them to ignore the results when writing a story that they were going to be writing anyway. Plus it looks like Order is going very strong as predicted so that makes things a bit easier (but the margin by which Order wins will likely matter, so sally forth servants of not-Order!!).
NinthMusketeer wrote: The impression I've gotten from the fluff is that each realm is the size of a world on it's own - making the collective setting quite vast but not anything like infinite. That we have a map of the Realm of Life suggests this as well. But again if they are actually stated to be infinite somewhere I'd like to read that content -- but now it seems like my problem is that they aren't stated to be as such anywhere written.
Regardless, the situation in regards to writing the story simply isn't the same as GWs previous campaigns with similar claims. AoS already has a living story that would have moved forward whether or not the campaign even happened. Thus, it would be nonsensical for them to ignore the results when writing a story that they were going to be writing anyway. Plus it looks like Order is going very strong as predicted so that makes things a bit easier (but the margin by which Order wins will likely matter, so sally forth servants of not-Order!!).
I would of preferred if we could tell the store managers which city we want to log our points into would of made it more interesting IMO. Considering how GW has done it there is no chance of any other faction taking or even contesting a city hence why its expected order is going to win.
I'm holding out hope for a non-order rally, we'll have to see how well the Bonesplitterz release does, and how quick the Beastclaw one arrives. I suspect the Sylvaneth release was a bigger hit than GW expected, turning a small advantage for Order into quite a large one.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm holding out hope for a non-order rally, we'll have to see how well the Bonesplitterz release does, and how quick the Beastclaw one arrives. I suspect the Sylvaneth release was a bigger hit than GW expected, turning a small advantage for Order into quite a large one.
I doubt it will do anything, order has too many factions and new "proper" releases iron jaw's really helped destruction but I doubt beastclaws and bonesplitterz will be as popular as sylvaneth. We are midway into week two the results have not really changed on the website it will pretty much remain order controlled. Even my GW manager before the campaign started clearly said order is going to win when we had this discussion. He said many old world factions make up order and several new releases on top of that. Plus chaos is overall second considering how large their grand alliance book is and he was right.
Unless order players stop logging results for a while and at most I suspect a contested city not one owned by the other factions. At this point I just see this as getting people to do the AOS hobby and having fun I highly also suspected that GW expect's order to win. Hell they haven't done anything to help tip the balance for the other factions like they did in old campaigns.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm holding out hope for a non-order rally, we'll have to see how well the Bonesplitterz release does, and how quick the Beastclaw one arrives. I suspect the Sylvaneth release was a bigger hit than GW expected, turning a small advantage for Order into quite a large one.
I doubt it will do anything, order has too many factions and new "proper" releases iron jaw's really helped destruction but I doubt beastclaws and bonesplitterz will be as popular as sylvaneth. We are getting into week two the results have not really changed on the website it will pretty much remain order controlled.
Unless order players stop logging results for a while and at most I suspect a contested city not one owned by the other factions.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm holding out hope for a non-order rally, we'll have to see how well the Bonesplitterz release does, and how quick the Beastclaw one arrives. I suspect the Sylvaneth release was a bigger hit than GW expected, turning a small advantage for Order into quite a large one.
I doubt it will do anything, order has too many factions and new "proper" releases iron jaw's really helped destruction but I doubt beastclaws and bonesplitterz will be as popular as sylvaneth. We are getting into week two the results have not really changed on the website it will pretty much remain order controlled.
Unless order players stop logging results for a while and at most I suspect a contested city not one owned by the other factions.
Let me hope dammit!!
"Hope is the first step on to the road of disappointment."
Ah always wanted to use a 40k quote to make a post.
Tell me your store's location and name and i'll tell you the results entered.
I already found a store stacking wins for order (108 for order and a handful for the rest). Otherwise GW is not influencing the results and the system regulates cheaters fairly well.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm holding out hope for a non-order rally, we'll have to see how well the Bonesplitterz release does, and how quick the Beastclaw one arrives. I suspect the Sylvaneth release was a bigger hit than GW expected, turning a small advantage for Order into quite a large one.
I doubt it will do anything, order has too many factions and new "proper" releases iron jaw's really helped destruction but I doubt beastclaws and bonesplitterz will be as popular as sylvaneth. We are getting into week two the results have not really changed on the website it will pretty much remain order controlled.
Unless order players stop logging results for a while and at most I suspect a contested city not one owned by the other factions.
Let me hope dammit!!
"Hope is the first step on to the road of disappointment."
Ah always wanted to use a 40k quote to make a post.
I knew when I posted that would be the response... >.>
Daedalus81 wrote: Tell me your store's location and name and i'll tell you the results entered.
I already found a store stacking wins for order (108 for order and a handful for the rest). Otherwise GW is not influencing the results and the system regulates cheaters fairly well.
Funny thing is the margin by store doesn't matter at all; only the winning faction. A store where Order wins by 1 and a store where Order wins by 100 get factored identically into the global results. I'd say that store more likely has a lot of Order players.
It matters in that store will never, ever change from order. In the broader sense it may not be an issue, but if enough stores have unscrupulous people then it could suck.
I also find it highly unlikely that order would have a 99.5% (literally) win rate at ANY store.
I don't find it unlikely at all. I know of a few stores where one faction typically wins all the games. A lot of places only have a handful of players to begin with.
Imagine you have a store with five or six players, and the really good tournament vet picks up stormcast and then two others also pick up stormcast, leaving three not so good players playing the khorne side out of the starter box or a mish mash of chaos.
I know a few stores like that. Its not surprising in that context that the stormcast always wipe the floor with their opposition.
It is possible they were skewing the results, its also possible that its a big store where the majority of players are Order (Order always wins if its on both sides of the table). But also remember that painting a warscroll worth of models also counts as a win; if several players had fully-painted armies I could see that result pretty easily.
Only if they had fully painted their army in the first week. It's for painted warscrolls during the campaign - not what you already have.
Anyway I am having loads of fun with the season of war. I played my first game tonight, and my first 2000pt Matched Play game - and it was a blast. Here's a picture of my Fyreslayers before they got murdered by Goddrak.
I took out Goddrack on turn 2 (slain by an arrow lol), but in the end the Ironjawz player won a minor victory after smashing my army up with Foot of Gork for 4 consecutive turns haha.
Great game, great scenario (Pitched Battle 1: Take and Hold), and can't wait to play next week and hopefully get a win.
Bottle wrote: Only if they had fully painted their army in the first week. It's for painted warscrolls during the campaign - not what you already have.
Ah, I had missed that snippet. Maybe the store did too, for that matter!
Bottle wrote: Only if they had fully painted their army in the first week. It's for painted warscrolls during the campaign - not what you already have.
Ah, I had missed that snippet. Maybe the store did too, for that matter!
Yes, seems likely! I wish I could cash in my 2500pt painted army onto Order's side (not that they need it). Desperately trying to finish off my Militia unit to make up for my defeat yesterday.
Bottle wrote: Only if they had fully painted their army in the first week. It's for painted warscrolls during the campaign - not what you already have.
Anyway I am having loads of fun with the season of war. I played my first game tonight, and my first 2000pt Matched Play game - and it was a blast. Here's a picture of my Fyreslayers before they got murdered by Goddrak.
I took out Goddrack on turn 2 (slain by an arrow lol), but in the end the Ironjawz player won a minor victory after smashing my army up with Foot of Gork for 4 consecutive turns haha.
Great game, great scenario (Pitched Battle 1: Take and Hold), and can't wait to play next week and hopefully get a win.
My store is currently ran by Nagash:
Your Fyreslayers look great as do your opponent's models. Looks like a fun game. I've yet to face the Ironjaws yet.
Ironjaws are surprisingly tough. Their profiles don't look that amazing, but let them stack a couple buffs and suddenly they're disembowling your monsters and heroes with gay abandon.
Well after a week in the states, Order is dominating pretty thoroughly.
I'm not a fan of how scores can be reported in this campaign. Being able to fight the same faction can skew things hard since you are basically just giving a free point to the faction for each of those type of games.
auticus wrote: Well after a week in the states, Order is dominating pretty thoroughly.
I'm not a fan of how scores can be reported in this campaign. Being able to fight the same faction can skew things hard since you are basically just giving a free point to the faction for each of those type of games.
Our store isn't giving points for that. Its just too dumb that order can keep playing order over and over again. We are also running a ladder bracket in store during the season of war, the order vs order does count for that though.
Slightly off topic but I wish this ran for more than just a month, it seems like a cool idea but it's over too fast. I also like how they come up with special bonuses for factions (Chaos had and now Death has) but they last like only a day or two.
Still, they're trying. Hopefully this is a success and we see more campaigns, hopefully lasting a couple of months.
I'm finding it difficult to get into all of this as even with it being new (from my understanding) I feel as though I'm already leagues behind.
Where do I find all of this fluff and back-story?
Where do I find all the fluff for individual factions, etc - like the best resource?
I want to get excited about AOS, but my main excitement thus far has been from playing Total War: Warhammer.
Hey, sorry about not helping you out sooner. Here's some links to help you understand the AoS background. (Also, if you want to about the current campaign you can get the free AoS app and see the campaign fluff which is about taking the three cities in the Life realm)
Neither praising nor bashing either AoS or the campaign here, just providing another data point.
auticus wrote: I don't find it unlikely at all. I know of a few stores where one faction typically wins all the games. A lot of places only have a handful of players to begin with.
Imagine you have a store with five or six players, and the really good tournament vet picks up stormcast and then two others also pick up stormcast, leaving three not so good players playing the khorne side out of the starter box or a mish mash of chaos.
I know a few stores like that. Its not surprising in that context that the stormcast always wipe the floor with their opposition.
For our part, in a very GW-loyal FLGS, that's exactly our situation here. There's 6 players I personally know that are actively playing AoS. In our case:
...only wanted to see you laughing in the Purple Reign. Purple Reign, PURPLE REIGN...
And in case you were wondering, I'm proud to tell you that, sitting upon my throne of skulls bumpily, that big o' slice of grape pie is ME.
(My "strategy" is having lots of Morghast Archai, who are killy, have a 4+ save, a 5+ FNP, then my General's command trait gives ANOTHER 5+ FNP.)
But yeah, I'm the Death player, there's 1 Elf player, eeeeeveryone else is Chaos of the different gods (and 1 undivided).
We've been playing the scenarios and reporting fairly. Partly it's because AoS is not the key game here, 40k is, so we saw no point in fibbing for this.
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Regarding the campaign itself, we kinda glitched out last week's scenario, the one with Champions Dueling, making us question the quality of it.
(We all can find qualms about the AoS ruleset. This isn't about that. This is about something that came up in playing that we felt was EXTRA weird.)
The scenario, according to the FLGS and our understanding, was that 2 Heroes act as Champions and duel by themselves, while the rest of the army fights around them. When 1 Champion wins (and the other falls), he gives a buff to the rest of the army. However, they only make 1 attack each, so it's actually quite slow, but pretty dramatic.
It turned out, I tabled my opponent before their duel was over. So the rest of my army just surrounded the dueling area and waited for IIRC 2 turns.
Now, it might just be our opinion, but that lead-lag time was probably not what GW intended, as it literally broke the flow of the game. It's like we had a time-out.
That said...it's really fun to glitch out a game, so we had a fun time and Forged A Narrative around that moment. Thus, I'm not being negative, I'm just reporting a bug.
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However, we strongly, strongly believe 1 store in our region HAS been cheating/gaming the system (NOT our FLGS, who've been really honour-bound, for what are we without honour).
The store simply has no room to play in, barely a demo table, and is so new I don't think they have regular players that would report to it. Yet it seems to have added a lot of results.
Now, we've accepted this campaign is really just a sales & marketing drive, by just encouraging activity, but we are absolutely convinced they must be fudging their numbers.
Or you have a store where people bring in lots of painted models. I myself have basically painted a whole new army in less than a month's time.
I was actually shocked that a painted unit counted for as much as a victory in battle. My Flesh eater courts box was good for 8 points for nagash because I painted them all up
My Area is pretty hotly contested, (Use zip 84109), I've managed to win all of my games thus far, so between my Stormcast eternals and another players everqueen, my store belongs to the forces of order. The other two shops in the area are chaos and destruction, which has me thinking of going over and seeing what they are running .
Regarding the campaign itself, we kinda glitched out last week's scenario, the one with Champions Dueling, making us question the quality of it.
(We all can find qualms about the AoS ruleset. This isn't about that. This is about something that came up in playing that we felt was EXTRA weird.)
The scenario, according to the FLGS and our understanding, was that 2 Heroes act as Champions and duel by themselves, while the rest of the army fights around them. When 1 Champion wins (and the other falls), he gives a buff to the rest of the army. However, they only make 1 attack each, so it's actually quite slow, but pretty dramatic.
It turned out, I tabled my opponent before their duel was over. So the rest of my army just surrounded the dueling area and waited for IIRC 2 turns.
Mostly because they only make 1 attack during the duel, which takes place pre-game and during the actual game, they make their full attacks when it's their turn to attack.
It's half Order here at my local GW (the closest place doing the campaign) and is probably due to most people having an Order army. There are a few of every other faction, so there is that I suppose. Here's the link:
On a different note, would it be possible to change the title of the thread to just be talking about how the campaign's going and the like? Since the main point of the thread has been talked about and discussed already, we may's well have a less passive/aggressive title.
HeroesFall wrote:Can you guys link to what you're referring too?
I'm finding it difficult to get into all of this as even with it being new (from my understanding) I feel as though I'm already leagues behind.
Where do I find all of this fluff and back-story?
Where do I find all the fluff for individual factions, etc - like the best resource?
I want to get excited about AOS, but my main excitement thus far has been from playing Total War: Warhammer.
I strongly suggest making a new thread so this topic doesn't go off topic and then you can ask exactly what you want. Right now I can tell you what not to get, but this would defiantly bring this thread off topic.
Elmir wrote: Or you have a store where people bring in lots of painted models. I myself have basically painted a whole new army in less than a month's time.
I was actually shocked that a painted unit counted for as much as a victory in battle. My Flesh eater courts box was good for 8 points for nagash because I painted them all up
Oh...I forgot about this and didn't know the details of the score keeping. I thought a Major Victory in a scenario was worth more points. My FLGS might not have accounted for that yet.
That, perhaps more than anything, explains the skew. Lots of people are painting Stormcast Celestials and Sylvaneth, that would add a lot to Order in my FLGS...maybe they're incomplete.
All my stuff was painted already, I'm guessing they're only counting for newly painted units since the start of the campaign.
Thanks for clarifying this, that would certainly explain the huge numbers from stores that probably don't have active players or tables to play on.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sining wrote: Mostly because they only make 1 attack during the duel, which takes place pre-game and during the actual game, they make their full attacks when it's their turn to attack.
Ah, it would be very embarrassing if all this was due to Stupid User Error on our part. It's very possible as we debated exactly how the duel was supposed to work.
I don't have the rules in front of me as we all worked off of 1 copy of the scenario's rules at the FLGS, but thanks for pointing this out, it certainly makes more sense.
This was always going to happen. I said this before this even started, that the Sigmarines are just too popular for anybody but Order to succeed. All of those left-over Warriors of Chaos armies I expected to but a bigger dent in the pie chart than expected though... but I guess combining the High Elves into Order (the second most popular Fantasy army) didn't help.
Besides, they'll just retcon whatever happens down the line anyway,
bob82ca wrote: So I've noticed that every territory is being dominated by order. Also each pie chart from each region is roughly the same, which is pretty lame. You don't really get the sense that your actions mean anything in the large scheme of things. The charts more or less represent the volume of players that play each faction, and lets face it, order is pretty stacked. Not sure GW thought this one through...
Death= 1 army (undead)
Destruction= 2 armies (Orks and Ogres)
Chaos= 1.5 armies (Chaos and super-niche Beastmen)
Order= 8 armies ( Empire, Dwarves, Sylvenith, Serephon, Britonia, High Elves, Dark Elves, Stormcast)
Well, I check the season of war website every day, and I see that Order has a strong foothold in all 3 locations. I'm hoping Order loses a foothold in one location, but I don't see that happening.
Also, is anyone having fun in this campaign? Does it bring back memories of Storm of Chaos?
Our FLGS is tied neck and neck between death, chaos and order. This is mostly because a couple of guys in the store discovered they can paint lots of single warscroll units in a day (gryph hounds, wizards, necromancers etc), we had 20 points reported (painted in store) in one day the other day from two guys, 10 to death and 10 to order due to guys painting heroes (one guy painted 6 of the elf heroes from silver tower box).
Personally I think they should have split games, purchases and painting into separate categories and gave them different weights but that may have been to much work for what is essentially a marketing campaign. It also helps that Order had a massively popular release right on the eve of the campaign, how much of the winning that order has comes down to people painting/buying sylvaneth, I would argue a reasonable amount (although I think only army boxes count not units).
Its the first AOS campaign pitting each faction against each other, of course there will be kinks but they seem to be having great ideas just execution can be improved in some areas but they do seem to be learning. I think the bonuses for Chaos/Death/Destruction are quite a new and innovative move on their part in particular.
Regardless, I am an Order player and I do hope that Order wipes the floor with everyone in at least the Ironweld Arsenal and Phoneicum (I'm in the states playing for the Living City OF COURSE). As long as Chaos doesn't win anything I'm fine with the results.
Right I just wanted to say even though order is winning interesting things can still happen. Let me point you to an example at the death buff it states nagash is growing strong on all the death's that occur during this war so of course even if he does not take a city he still has benefited from this war and it's also revealed in the lord of undeath novel.
Spoiler:
He is building another black pyramid. THE black pyramid.
With destruction with this war it's not a case of winning or losing they just like to fight I am sure we are going to get a lot of humorous stories like always. Now with chaos I do feel this loss might actually press Archaon into putting more resources into finding the location of slaanesh since the story seems to be heading in that direction plus the rumors of the new dark elves.
I will say let order win we need some civilization to start building somewhat now. Instead of ayzr being the "last" bastion of the civilized races. Most warhammer fluff has been about the good guys being kicked in the teeth by the bad ones let them enjoy this victory.
pm713 wrote: What's special about the Black Pyramid? I'm guessing it isn't just a pretty building.
You don't know what it is? Is this sarcasm? If not I shall explain it.
Spoiler:
The black pyramid in the old world was a structure Nagash built in the times of legends to house a great number of souls and magical power it can even store the very winds of magic itself and used it to kill the priests of Nehekara and took control of Khemri. In end times he bound the winds of death into the black pyramid, he then took it to sylvania during the end times while he slowly sucked it up becoming the incarnate of death. In AOS he is building another one to take the souls which he feels belong to him those marked by chaos their souls are bound to their god and in the case of stormcast their souls travel back to ayzr for reforging. Since sigmar has been spending time stealing souls from under him he is rebuilding a new one so ANYONE who dies in the realm of deah the pyramid sucks them up no matter if they are bound to another god. Normally nagash's only makes one if he wants to do something BIG or is planning for something. This page also sums it up. http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Pyramid_of_Nagash
bob82ca wrote: Also, is anyone having fun in this campaign? Does it bring back memories of Storm of Chaos?
I'm having fun in this campaign. Even though I see the flaws of AoS, I think it's quite hilarious due to my very personalised, fluffy army.
If it wasn't for that, it probably wouldn't be fun for me. It would suck. My army's only redemption is Forge A Narrative.
And I think it does suck for my friends who came to AoS, mostly 40k players who tried it because they already had Chaos Daemons.
I can't compare to Storm of Chaos, unfortunately, as I fell off The Hobby for a years around that time. The Orcs won, right?
Fezza213 wrote:Our FLGS is tied neck and neck between death, chaos and order. This is mostly because a couple of guys in the store discovered they can paint lots of single warscroll units in a day (gryph hounds, wizards, necromancers etc), we had 20 points reported (painted in store) in one day the other day from two guys, 10 to death and 10 to order due to guys painting heroes (one guy painted 6 of the elf heroes from silver tower box).
Personally I think they should have split games, purchases and painting into separate categories and gave them different weights but that may have been to much work for what is essentially a marketing campaign. It also helps that Order had a massively popular release right on the eve of the campaign, how much of the winning that order has comes down to people painting/buying sylvaneth, I would argue a reasonable amount (although I think only army boxes count not units).
Fez
Yeah, now I'm starting to see not only how the Painting aspect is weighed too heavily IMHO, but how you can "game the system" with Painting.
For Death, the Nihilakh Oxide quick-painting technique for those of you that know it, could churn out lots of points for the campaign, but it feels silly to artificially inflate our score this way.
I'm actually going to remind my FLGS that Painting is a huge, if not the main, component of Season of War. This should help my FLGS show its support to GW...who's been unfair to them.
For my part, I'm going to continue winning for Death by winning, but the overall score results interest me a lot less now. It's just spilled too far into Pay-To-Win territory.
I can still enjoy these weekly scenarios, which really do enhance the game.
I'm loving the campaign, I think people who are gaming the system are taking the whole thing way too seriously anyways. Plus the vast majority of people who aren't will outweigh the minority of individual efforts.
Right it seems order victory is assured. I hope GW has learned some lessons from this because I doubt they were expecting order to control everything through out the 4 weeks the buffs did not help that much. I hope in the future GW allows players to tell the store manager which city we want to log our point. Now my one fear is that I hope the fluff from this is not order simply trouncing the other alliances since that in my opinion would be boring.
I do hope this also shows that the other factions need some love especially chaos tzeentch(who is most likely coming) due to the summoning and mainly magic nerf and death for the same reason.
shinros wrote: Right it seems order victory is assured. I hope GW has learned some lessons from this because I doubt they were expecting order to control everything through out the 4 weeks the buffs did not help that much. I hope in the future GW allows players to tell the store manager which city we want to log our point. Now my one fear is that I hope the fluff from this is not order simply trouncing the other alliances since that in my opinion would be boring.
I do hope this also shows that the other factions need some love especially chaos tzeentch(who is most likely coming) due to the summoning and mainly magic nerf and death for the same reason.
It seems you are drawing the conclusion that Order is by far the strongest faction, and I don't think that is true at all. Order are dominating because of the sheer number of players in the Order faction - if we take into account the old WHFB division most of the grand alliances are made up of 2 or 3 armies whereas Order are made up of 7 or so. When there's that many armies they are gonna clock in a lot more wins (and especially a lot more painting points).
If anything it says to me that GW need to stop ignoring the legacy Order factions with releases/fluff like they have been IMO because they have such a big fanbase.
Destruction has a few armies now that Beastclaw have been released. Death though have only 1 'new' faction with Flesheaters. Which other could be easily updated with a army book- Soulblight perhaps?
shinros wrote: Right it seems order victory is assured. I hope GW has learned some lessons from this because I doubt they were expecting order to control everything through out the 4 weeks the buffs did not help that much. I hope in the future GW allows players to tell the store manager which city we want to log our point. Now my one fear is that I hope the fluff from this is not order simply trouncing the other alliances since that in my opinion would be boring.
I do hope this also shows that the other factions need some love especially chaos tzeentch(who is most likely coming) due to the summoning and mainly magic nerf and death for the same reason.
It seems you are drawing the conclusion that Order is by far the strongest faction, and I don't think that is true at all. Order are dominating because of the sheer number of players in the Order faction - if we take into account the old WHFB division most of the grand alliances are made up of 2 or 3 armies whereas Order are made up of 7 or so. When there's that many armies they are gonna clock in a lot more wins (and especially a lot more painting points).
If anything it says to me that GW need to stop ignoring the legacy Order factions with releases/fluff like they have been IMO because they have such a big fanbase.
So update the other armies in order so it can outstrip the other factions even further if they do another campaign again? What? Sylvaneth just got a big release and the treekin were pretty much from an old world army they weren't even an army in 8th. Even though many of the order armies don't have a book they at least have formations they can use Death only has one which more suits Deathrattle and even then it's not really good. The ironjaw's and the beastclaws are getting people interested in destruction if you have more options on how to build you army you will get more people interested in doing the grand alliance.
I do feel if they do the fluff update for this campaign though I hope they focus on the wanderer's, free guild, devoted of sigmar and phoenix temple since well the pheonix temple have their own city.
I feel people are not going to get more interested in the other grand alliances if they leave them in the shadow of order. Let's not forget it's pretty clear that the new Dark elves and Tzeentch are coming soon. Destruction and Death have the smallest grand alliance and it shows in the campaign, you can check people's responses on facebook some are pretty well unsatisfied at the clear order domination for the whole campaign. When GW tries to get people hyped to push order back a lot of people are like whats the point?
Don't get me wrong I had fun with the campaign but there are issues.
The way I see it, even if Order dominates, I don't think it will diminish Death and Destruction any as far as the fluff goes. Remember, the key story line is the war against Chaos and reclaiming the mortal realms. In the grand scheme of things, any non-Chaos victory is a win for all of the other non-Chaos alliances.
And it really does need to happen. Chaos is given too much dominance in the fluff and its starting to get old. Knock Chaos down to a more manageable threat, then the other "bad guys" can grab the spotlight from time to time. As long as the game rules for Chaos aren't nerfed, I don't really see the harm in Chaos losing the campaign.
ClassicCarraway wrote: The way I see it, even if Order dominates, I don't think it will diminish Death and Destruction any as far as the fluff goes. Remember, the key story line is the war against Chaos and reclaiming the mortal realms. In the grand scheme of things, any non-Chaos victory is a win for all of the other non-Chaos alliances.
And it really does need to happen. Chaos is given too much dominance in the fluff and its starting to get old. Knock Chaos down to a more manageable threat, then the other "bad guys" can grab the spotlight from time to time. As long as the game rules for Chaos aren't nerfed, I don't really see the harm in Chaos losing the campaign.
That and Nagash is busy back home while everyone's fighting, creating a new Black Pyramid that will drain every soul killed within the Realm of Death, everyone fighting means he gets to deal with his new toy, which will steal souls from other Gods if they fight in his home territory..
ClassicCarraway wrote: The way I see it, even if Order dominates, I don't think it will diminish Death and Destruction any as far as the fluff goes. Remember, the key story line is the war against Chaos and reclaiming the mortal realms. In the grand scheme of things, any non-Chaos victory is a win for all of the other non-Chaos alliances.
And it really does need to happen. Chaos is given too much dominance in the fluff and its starting to get old. Knock Chaos down to a more manageable threat, then the other "bad guys" can grab the spotlight from time to time. As long as the game rules for Chaos aren't nerfed, I don't really see the harm in Chaos losing the campaign.
That and Nagash is busy back home while everyone's fighting, creating a new Black Pyramid that will drain every soul killed within the Realm of Death, everyone fighting means he gets to deal with his new toy, which will steal souls from other Gods if they fight in his home territory..
The spoilers man
I did mention that the buff from the season of war for death notes nagash is growing stronger from all the death that is occuring. So the loss is not "clear cut" and in the end this war still benefited nagash even though the cities still are in sigmars hands plus anyone of his generals that died he can easily bring back. The issue is that GW are trying to get people hyped to push back order but it's not really working due to the order dominance. Well at least I am happy my store is controlled by death. Anyway change is good in the old world it was chaos constantly looming over the good guys waiting to destroy them at any moment.
Perhaps this loss would push Archaon to put more resources in freeing slaanesh. Plus I do want to see some devoted of sigmar stories they have been in the surrounding fluff quite a bit and wield divine magic better than stormcast.
I had a lot of fun, and was pleasantly surprised that Order did not end up totally dominating the field. Order did win all three, but with only about 1/3 of the influence, way down from week two where they had an almost 2/3 majority across the board.
I still believe that fears of a ret-con are seriously unfounded.
[edit] Actually, checking the website it looks like they are already writing it in considering there is a paragraph for each city describing how Order won the day. Notably, the margin of victory seems to have been accounted for with the Greywater Fastness (where Order had the smallest margin) described as being nearly overrun but saved at the last moment, while the Phoenicium (where contrary to my memory Order had nearly half the influence) the invading forces are described as being totally crushed.
Yeah our own store it was an even race between all four factions. In the end Destruction clinched it on the last day. I 'am still convinced it was because some people rocked up with dirt Destruction lists and played lots of 10 minute games. Because I know on Saturday we put in at least 14 points for Order between painting and winning the big all day battle.
I do think they should look closely at future factions and consider shifting some of them. Possibly one of the gods joins with Nagash or Gorkamorka or even Chaos. The Shadow Elves could very well end up on another faction as they have to justify two Order factions being (presumably) mortal enemies.
My GW had Destruction pull ahead in the very end (they are popular, lots of Orruk/Ogor players), with Order 2nd, Chaos 3rd and sadly Death (unpopular at our shop) coming up last (but ultimately winning because every death bolsters our numbers). I did not see a lot of games going on though, because we only have 1 AoS specific table (the other two are for 40k) so I'm not sure how many games actually went on.
NinthMusketeer wrote: [edit] Actually, checking the website it looks like they are already writing it in considering there is a paragraph for each city describing how Order won the day. Notably, the margin of victory seems to have been accounted for with the Greywater Fastness (where Order had the smallest margin) described as being nearly overrun but saved at the last moment, while the Phoenicium (where contrary to my memory Order had nearly half the influence) the invading forces are described as being totally crushed.
Hmm if order was crushing at the start and then margins went smaller then assuming that was also true for Greywaters shouldn't fluff be more like it ended in major push by non-order against them? Rather than being saved at the end at the end it should be looking more grim(if that's appropriate term for stalemate by design fluff).
Well they still won in the end. So at the start if the siege, Order easily fended off attacks but slowly the invaders pushed them back and came closer to overrunning the fortress. And then at the last minute, Order wins as it has retained the lead, if only just.
Blackhoof wrote: Well they still won in the end. So at the start if the siege, Order easily fended off attacks but slowly the invaders pushed them back and came closer to overrunning the fortress. And then at the last minute, Order wins as it has retained the lead, if only just.
That's my point. From the GW's fluff it sounds more like Order made last minute heroic charge or something and turned the tide. But if results were there same as elsewhere(order started with huge lead, lead got narrower) what happened was actually _opposite_.
So fluff follows less of results now. And if it would follow it would be more grim looking for order as the enemies would be actually be having momentum there. Now it sounds more like order has momentum there.
Just because they won doesn't mean there's no degrees of winnings and way they won and how to tie it to the story.
The victory at Greywater Fastness was a Pyrrhic victory in many ways. It wasn't a heroic final push - they built a super weapon and flicked the kill switch, obliterating the landscape all around. A victory in the eyes of the humans and Duardin who live there perhaps, but to the Sylvaneth? It resulted in wanton destruction of the flora and fauna. A fitting choice by GW to choose a victory that would only be considered such to the eyes of some and a defeat to the eyes of others.
They should have put the Dark Elves in the Chaos faction. Bring back the Cults of Slaanesh as a major faction within them and rekindle the Slaanesh/Khaine rivalry thing with Morathi and Malekith using the respective cults as puppets in their great game for control.
auticus wrote: Nothing's stopping them from doing just that when they get around to exploring the daughters of khaine sub faction.
In my opinion I feel that the fluff and outcome were already predetermined before the first match.
Considering all the previous movements in the Dark Elf fluff were pulling them away from it, and the End Times basically relegated Morathi to a delusional, whimpering maiden rather than the cold, powerful sorceress previously depicted, I doubt it. But we'll see.
Bottle wrote: The victory at Greywater Fastness was a Pyrrhic victory in many ways. It wasn't a heroic final push - they built a super weapon and flicked the kill switch, obliterating the landscape all around. A victory in the eyes of the humans and Duardin who live there perhaps, but to the Sylvaneth? It resulted in wanton destruction of the flora and fauna. A fitting choice by GW to choose a victory that would only be considered such to the eyes of some and a defeat to the eyes of others.
Anyone else amused that a city of Dwarfs and Human engineers basically pulled a Boatmurdered (Dwarf Fortress) and destroyed the entire countryside in fire to repel invaders?
Bottle wrote: The victory at Greywater Fastness was a Pyrrhic victory in many ways. It wasn't a heroic final push - they built a super weapon and flicked the kill switch, obliterating the landscape all around. A victory in the eyes of the humans and Duardin who live there perhaps, but to the Sylvaneth? It resulted in wanton destruction of the flora and fauna. A fitting choice by GW to choose a victory that would only be considered such to the eyes of some and a defeat to the eyes of others.
Anyone else amused that a city of Dwarfs and Human engineers basically pulled a Boatmurdered (Dwarf Fortress) and destroyed the entire countryside in fire to repel invaders?
you know, I didnt think too much on it... but your friggen right. They boatmurdered the feth out of the realm of life.
Chaos dominated the Bernese Phonicium (taht ho ah speelz et?) but didnt change anything overall. I also witnessed a Order vs Order battle, so that may have something to do with all the Order victories.
Don't mind me I am having fun. 
