I guess the only reason they dont actually make them, since the technology is clearly there, is that they feel they will not make them any money.

Where is that image from?

Yes I'd like to know where that Sister came from too - doesn't look like a GW cast.

You never know with GW, especially these days - they're reviving a lot of things and Sisters have the potential to be on the list.

Just don't hold your breath over them

G.A

http://www.spikeybits.com/2016/05/new-bits-want-plastic-sisters.html

Via google image search.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
http://www.spikeybits.com/2016/05/new-bits-want-plastic-sisters.html

Via google image search.

Thanks for the link - well at least we have a place to go if you ever considered picking up Sisters

Supposedly, that is - not sure if I trust an upstarting Russian model site

Actually, the likely biggest factor that's holding back on GW doing a full-on Sisters overhaul & re-release, is the utter lack of shelf space in their brick and mortar stores...

Until they can fully condense the bloat of the Fantasy to AoS transition, and combine the million or so Marine kits into general all-purpose kits, (ie: remove Rhino + Razorback kits & bundle into 'Space Marine Transport' kit that's both Rhino AND Razorback in one), don't expect to see fully fleshed out new armies.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Until they can fully condense the bloat of the Fantasy to AoS transition, and combine the million or so Marine kits into general all-purpose kits, (ie: remove Rhino + Razorback kits & bundle into 'Space Marine Transport' kit that's both Rhino AND Razorback in one), don't expect to see fully fleshed out new armies.

You mean like they're doing with the "Deathwatch Transport" kit? (someone help, insert the picture!) It's a Rhino/Razorback kit with a DW sprue.

Really just slap a new box on the razorback kit already...

Or they're trying to Squat the SoB?

SO WANT SISTERS! I know there are people that want to play them so badly that they have given up on plastic/resin models and are ordering the metal models. If it's even mentioned in my local GW store, pretty much everyone arees that they'd love to start a Sisters army if they had plastic models. I really don't understand why GW hasn't made them yet.

SG

Sisters were my first imperial army (after I came to terms with just how awful Tau were at the time) and they marked the point where I started loving the 40k setting for what it is, rather than what I projected onto it.

Even then they were considered a very niche army, more so than the Grey Knights (because they cost about the same per model but you didn't need to buy as many GK to fill out your points) but not as niche as the Dark Eldar (who were more maligned then than sisters are now, imo). Even then, there were little weird eccentricities about the Witch Hunters' codex, or little problems GW didn't want to acknowledge: Witch Hunters and Demon Hunters could take land raiders, but when the edition changed and it effectively stopped being an assault vehicle due to the wording, GW eventually released an FAQ for each army with identical wording except it gave the GK land raider its assault ramp back but not the Sisters'.

Then the DE and GK got major revamps, the latter became a less super-low-model army and the former was barely recognizable. And sisters were just kind of... left alone.

And I mean, if that was it we'd probably still be having this conversation, but for a few years GW seemed to have a legit hate-on for the Sisters of Battle. In no particular order... the new codex spread across two white dwarf issues utterly savaged their core mechanic (most egregiously making it not scale to army size iirc) and bits of lore sprinkled about here and there about how sisters are killed to achieve some frivolous goal that doesn't matter. It's like GW was pushing their authors to include subtle jabs of that nature too, but mostly people noticed Matt Ward tried to do it with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer in that previously mentioned GK codex.

I don't think they were deliberately singling out the Sisters here, but they're the face of the Ecclesiarchy, and 'I want to show that religion is evil and rules the world but don't respect religious people enough to write them as anything other than total morons' is a very common staple of hack writing.

But yes, oh yes, if plastic sisters came back I would be camping outside the local GW store here.

If you see a plastic thunderhawk, then you'll know they finally have a shot of being made

I really do feel it's only a matter of time until they produce a new sisters codex and plastic miniatures line, but honestly I think what is holding them back is a lack of a Sister's Loving Champion in the GW staff.

With the rumors of Sisters Of Silence being in the next 30K boxed game, I can't but think were another step closer to it happening.

The Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle are entirely different armies, stories, and eras. The one has no impact on the other.

I do love the Sisters but not enough to spend money on them.

So I'd say it's a combination of

A-Don't think it will make them money
B-Studio folks not interested at the moment

All shrill rhetoric aside, GW is sitting on 20 years of sisters sales. They can look at how they did when the 2 codexes and the various WD and digital army lists dropped. They can compare them to other all metal armies like Steel Legion or Vostroyans, they can see how female models like DE Wyches do. Hell they can see how the FFG and BL Sisters books did. And we can safely say if Sisters were fantastic sellers they'd front burner them.

We've also heard that the studio is a small group, decisions are based in part by personalities and vision. Necrons were totally redesigned because someone had a neat idea for them, otherwise they might have been forgotten. Squats were dropped not because of sales, but because no one was passionate for them.

There was a quote from 2014 of someone in the studio saying nothing is in the works, I doubt that's changed.

 General Annoyance wrote:
Yes I'd like to know where that Sister came from too - doesn't look like a GW cast.

You never know with GW, especially these days - they're reviving a lot of things and Sisters have the potential to be on the list.

Just don't hold your breath over them

G.A

Not GW and not plastic.

Resin from an indy guy in Russia.

Honestly a good competition for what GW could make the sisters is the ones being made at Raging Heroes.

 Field_Mouse wrote:
Honestly a good competition for what GW could make the sisters is the ones being made at Raging Heroes.

Those are super stylized pinup models in fancy resin though. Theyre really not a good example.

And as we all know, GW shouldnt be allowed to touch resin with a 10 foot pole

 Psienesis wrote:
The Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle are entirely different armies, stories, and eras. The one has no impact on the other.

The one has no impact on the other, in the fiction. Unless you follow the Horus Heresy fiction, you are not going to know the difference.

Both are Imperial Faction armored females. At worst, they are conversion fodder for sisters.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle are entirely different armies, stories, and eras. The one has no impact on the other.

From a marketing perspective, there is virtually no difference. If SoS sell well, it shows that there is a market for female models.

So spoiler alert!

GW actual can and has made plastic sisters but no for retail. If you wanna see plastic sisters you need to entice GW to make them, meaning they need to move all of their old metal modes before they will even fathom the idea of making plastic ones.

So if you want better newer sisters, go buy more sisters

Buy old outdated overpriced models, so the people who are not suckers that buy after you can have good models with reasonable costs.

Yeah how about anyone who thinks that is reasonable go sit on a 2 liter bottle of coke.

Those Russian sisters look amazing. But how long before GW send them a cease and desist? They aren't even trying to hide the fact they are sisters of battle.

As for GW making plastic sisters? It's only a matter of time IMO.

They would be a huge seller and the hype surrounding the release would be insane.

It should go without saying but Dream Forge's female tank hunters are great female power armor models. They have tons of options and are compatable with the rest of the DF infantry.

http://dreamforge-games.com/collections/infantry/products/eisenkern-panzerjagers-10-female-tank-hunters

No they're not SoBs, but after 20+ years they might be the best we get.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Actually, the likely biggest factor that's holding back on GW doing a full-on Sisters overhaul & re-release, is the utter lack of shelf space in their brick and mortar stores...

Until they can fully condense the bloat of the Fantasy to AoS transition, and combine the million or so Marine kits into general all-purpose kits, (ie: remove Rhino + Razorback kits & bundle into 'Space Marine Transport' kit that's both Rhino AND Razorback in one), don't expect to see fully fleshed out new armies.

Condense the bloat of Fantasy? They are releasing even more kits for AoS, it won't be long before they've filled the space they saved by killing Brets and Tomb Kings.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle are entirely different armies, stories, and eras. The one has no impact on the other.

From a marketing perspective, there is virtually no difference. If SoS sell well, it shows that there is a market for female models.

The results of the RH Kickstarters proves there's demand for female models. GW doesn't need to do any further market research beyond that to prove that point (which they have admitted they do not do.)

GW has only sales numbers to go by. They do no market research before or after a product launch to guide future decisions. Things that appear on every store shelf, with large marketing campaigns (either direct, like ads, or supplementary, like in video games) and solid rules behind them sell well. Those that lack these things do not. This is why Space Marines continue to sell the best. They have the most marketing, the most studio support, and the widest variety of rules. Tau and Eldar have only recently enjoyed a surge in popularity because they have the strength of rules behind them.

There hasn't been a new Sisters model released in, what, 20 years now? While the Codex might get the occasional update, the models for the army are a) hard to find (being basically web-only) and b) expensive (barring eBay luck). The range, being 95% metal, is also difficult for most to work with (metal does not kitbash/mod as easily as plastic) and, in their current incarnation, there's a number of unit taxes that need to be paid to make an effective force. The current SOB codex is only solidly "OK". It's not great, it's not terrible, it doesn't have anything super-OP, it's got a few units that are fairly weak performers (or simply impossible in current meta to field effectively), but it's got little in the way of "wow! cool!" that the top-performing codices have, or even the upper-mid codices have. It's... fairly bland, really.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So spoiler alert!

GW actual can and has made plastic sisters but no for retail. If you wanna see plastic sisters you need to entice GW to make them, meaning they need to move all of their old metal modes before they will even fathom the idea of making plastic ones.

So if you want better newer sisters, go buy more sisters

I bought Sisters to the point where buying more Sisters would only serve to show interest in the army. I have enough of their models to field any Sisters army I want to field, not as Allies to a larger force, but as the entirety of my force. Every one of those models was bought new in a store, not second-hand from a site like ebay. Most of my Sisters of Battle came directly from my local GW store or GW's own website.

I want to buy plastic Sisters so I can convert them with other GW kits into scaly/furry Sisters. When plastic Sisters come out, I will be replacing my whole army (not all at once of course, but fairly rapidly) with plastic ones. I have e-mailed GW about this twice, they told me to stay tuned because the Sisters haven't been forgotten. One of those e-mails was two years ago.

I have had dreams in my sleep where GW releases plastic Sisters and I just buy them without knowing a damned thing about what's in the new Codex, which I also bought. They are very happy dreams and I'm always sad when I wake up and find out they aren't true. More recently I've been realizing that it's just a dream, while I'm still dreaming.

How much more interest in the army could I possibly show?

Also, given what happened to the Dark Elves in Age of Sigmar, I think there's a very real worry that Sisters are going to be squatted VERY fast if GW advances the timeline.

Pouncey, it.may be time to admit...

They're just not that into you.

I feel your pain, I have enough 2nd edition IG to anchor a ship at sea but I know in my heart we will never see plastic Tallarn or Mordians.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Pouncey, it.may be time to admit...

They're just not that into you.

I feel your pain, I have enough 2nd edition IG to anchor a ship at sea but I know in my heart we will never see plastic Tallarn or Mordians.

In 2006, Jes Goodwin told players that Sisters of Battle plastics were almost done, they were just working on some of the finnicky things making the robes not work well with multi-pose models.

Given that it's been a decade since then, if I end up getting third-party plastics that look kinda like Sisters, and I decide to play with them at the local GW, and anyone complains about using non-GW minis, feth em. GW had over a decade to make them after one of their model designers said they were almost done, they didn't. They had their chance to get sales of plastic ones from me.

I tried real hard to make that as polite as I could.

Yeah I'd defend you on THAT move.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
If you see a plastic thunderhawk, then you'll know they finally have a shot of being made

Plastic Thunderhawk sales could probably subsidize the production of an entire Sisters range, and maybe Kroot mercs and Exodites as well

I don't play current 40K but I can see one big issue with the Sisters of Battle in the current game. Inevitably GW would make their own book and their own army (because...money). But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

This, in turn, means that GW would have to likely bulk up the entire force/army, introduce new units and do a full launch - thus supporting an entire new product line. This is why I'm doubtful of this happening. I do think however they could be clever and produce 30K-esque models which could very easily be used as Sisters of Battle. This way they produce a small board-game's worth of miniatures (in plastic) without having to commit to an entire line. Much like the Genestealer Cult figures - they can release a highly desirable product without having to commit to supporting it for 20 years with more model releases and codices etc. They can fill the gap for the diehard fans in a cheaper more efficient way --- let the players sort out the rest.

Or they could do a boardgame with Sisters in 40K and accomplish the same thing. The board games have given GW a huge "out" when it comes to producing niche figures if they decide to use it. "Oh these are board game pieces only, but they happen to fit perfectly into that gap in our 40K line".

 Elbows wrote:
I don't play current 40K but I can see one big issue with the Sisters of Battle in the current game. Inevitably GW would make their own book and their own army (because...money). But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

This, in turn, means that GW would have to likely bulk up the entire force/army, introduce new units and do a full launch - thus supporting an entire new product line. This is why I'm doubtful of this happening. I do think however they could be clever and produce 30K-esque models which could very easily be used as Sisters of Battle. This way they produce a small board-game's worth of miniatures (in plastic) without having to commit to an entire line. Much like the Genestealer Cult figures - they can release a highly desirable product without having to commit to supporting it for 20 years with more model releases and codices etc. They can fill the gap for the diehard fans in a cheaper more efficient way --- let the players sort out the rest.

Or they could do a boardgame with Sisters in 40K and accomplish the same thing. The board games have given GW a huge "out" when it comes to producing niche figures if they decide to use it. "Oh these are board game pieces only, but they happen to fit perfectly into that gap in our 40K line".

I've never bought one of GW's board games so I don't know what the models in them are like. Answer some questions for me, if you please.

-Are they mono-pose like the 40k starter set minis, or multi-part multi-posable like standard plastic models?
-What's the pricing like for buying the board games for the models? Is it comparable to standard plastic kits if you assume that every model in the kit will be used?
-Are the board games available for a limited time only, or could I buy another set if I decide I need more models five years from now?

 Elbows wrote:
I don't play current 40K but I can see one big issue with the Sisters of Battle in the current game. Inevitably GW would make their own book and their own army (because...money). But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

This, in turn, means that GW would have to likely bulk up the entire force/army, introduce new units and do a full launch - thus supporting an entire new product line. This is why I'm doubtful of this happening. I do think however they could be clever and produce 30K-esque models which could very easily be used as Sisters of Battle. This way they produce a small board-game's worth of miniatures (in plastic) without having to commit to an entire line. Much like the Genestealer Cult figures - they can release a highly desirable product without having to commit to supporting it for 20 years with more model releases and codices etc. They can fill the gap for the diehard fans in a cheaper more efficient way --- let the players sort out the rest.

Or they could do a boardgame with Sisters in 40K and accomplish the same thing. The board games have given GW a huge "out" when it comes to producing niche figures if they decide to use it. "Oh these are board game pieces only, but they happen to fit perfectly into that gap in our 40K line".

Or specify certain units as available for the SoB army. Regiments of Guard, Rhino transports, possibly IG heavy support, throw whatever super heavies people care about nowadays. I mean, it's possible without even going unbound. Not to mention that with a base SoB plastic set and add on sprues, you could have enough Elites, HS, and FA to bulk out the army. Really the only reason that I can see that they haven't done a Sisters army is because they are afraid boobs won't sell. To gamers.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I don't play current 40K but I can see one big issue with the Sisters of Battle in the current game. Inevitably GW would make their own book and their own army (because...money). But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

This, in turn, means that GW would have to likely bulk up the entire force/army, introduce new units and do a full launch - thus supporting an entire new product line. This is why I'm doubtful of this happening. I do think however they could be clever and produce 30K-esque models which could very easily be used as Sisters of Battle. This way they produce a small board-game's worth of miniatures (in plastic) without having to commit to an entire line. Much like the Genestealer Cult figures - they can release a highly desirable product without having to commit to supporting it for 20 years with more model releases and codices etc. They can fill the gap for the diehard fans in a cheaper more efficient way --- let the players sort out the rest.

Or they could do a boardgame with Sisters in 40K and accomplish the same thing. The board games have given GW a huge "out" when it comes to producing niche figures if they decide to use it. "Oh these are board game pieces only, but they happen to fit perfectly into that gap in our 40K line".

Or specify certain units as available for the SoB army. Regiments of Guard, Rhino transports, possibly IG heavy support, throw whatever super heavies people care about nowadays. I mean, it's possible without even going unbound. Not to mention that with a base SoB plastic set and add on sprues, you could have enough Elites, HS, and FA to bulk out the army. Really the only reason that I can see that they haven't done a Sisters army is because they are afraid boobs won't sell. To gamers.

In fairness, they're fully armored boobs.

But on the other hand, I've seen enough Warhammer 40k "fan art" to know that no, that doesn't matter at all.

 Elbows wrote:
I don't play current 40K but I can see one big issue with the Sisters of Battle in the current game. Inevitably GW would make their own book and their own army (because...money). But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

Sisters have a current Codex that can field an entire army by itself, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. It's just not a top-tier army without allies, which is not unique to the faction.

 Pouncey wrote:
I've never bought one of GW's board games so I don't know what the models in them are like. Answer some questions for me, if you please.

-Are they mono-pose like the 40k starter set minis, or multi-part multi-posable like standard plastic models?
-What's the pricing like for buying the board games for the models? Is it comparable to standard plastic kits if you assume that every model in the kit will be used?
-Are the board games available for a limited time only, or could I buy another set if I decide I need more models five years from now?

The GW board game models tend to differ in complexity. Sometimes you get mono-pose figures, sometimes you get the equivalent of standard models, with all the options you'd expect. Sometimes, as is the case with the Betrayal at Calth models, you get something which is better than the standard models. Sometimes you get both.

Betrayal at Calth was easily worth what I paid for it. If you compare the board game to the boxed sets GW began selling a couple of months ago, then the models from the board game cost less than half of what GW is selling them for individually. I haven't compared the other board games with the GW range, and it would be much harder to do, given that in most cases, models that debut for a board game tend to only be available with that board game.

All the board games Games Workshop has ever produced have limited print-runs. Sometimes some, or all of the models are sold independently of the game afterwards, but not always. Fortunately, you will find people selling you parts on eBay. Long before GW decided to sell the Calth models independently of the board game, you'd have sellers who bought the board game solely to divide the sprues into squad sized kits and then re-sell them on eBay at a profit. I bought an extra squad of Calth Space Marines that way in April, and I paid less, than I would have had to do now, had I bought the same set directly from GW.

 Zingraff wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I've never bought one of GW's board games so I don't know what the models in them are like. Answer some questions for me, if you please.

-Are they mono-pose like the 40k starter set minis, or multi-part multi-posable like standard plastic models?
-What's the pricing like for buying the board games for the models? Is it comparable to standard plastic kits if you assume that every model in the kit will be used?
-Are the board games available for a limited time only, or could I buy another set if I decide I need more models five years from now?

The GW board game models tend to differ in complexity. Sometimes you get mono-pose figures, sometimes you get the equivalent of standard models, with all the options you'd expect. Sometimes, as is the case with the Betrayal at Calth models, you get something which is better than the standard models. Sometimes you get both.

Betrayal at Calth was easily worth what I paid for it. If you compare the board game to the boxed sets GW began selling a couple of months ago, then the models from the board game cost less than half of what GW is selling them for individually. I haven't compared the other board games with the GW range, and it would be much harder to do, given that in most cases, models that debut for a board game tend to only be available with that board game.

All the board games Games Workshop has ever produced have limited print-runs. Sometimes some, or all of the models are sold independently of the game afterwards, but not always. Fortunately, you will find people selling you parts on eBay. Long before GW decided to sell the Calth models independently of the board game, you'd have sellers who bought the board game solely to divide the sprues into squad sized kits and then re-sell them on eBay at a profit. I bought an extra squad of Calth Space Marines that way in April, and I paid less, than I would have had to do now, had I bought the same set directly from GW.

If their idea of Sisters of Battle plastics involves a limited-edition board game, they'd damned well better start selling those minis on their own at some point really quick.

Also I don't trust random strangers enough and I've heard too many horror stories to use eBay. To the point where when I was making models of a friend's vulpine RP character, I was buying Space Wolves Pack boxes straight from GW exclusively for the two wolf helms contained in each to use as conversion bitz. I don't even play Space Wolves. Perhaps not-so-coincidentally after I started uploading pictures of those kitbashes/conversions to a popular furry art site, finding eBay auctions for those heads became very difficult. I'm normally not that egotistical, but one of the comments I received was something about how my furry Marines were some of the best furry model conversions on the site, so there is at least some reason to believe that maybe people were taking inspiration from me.

At this point if I were a Sister player I would look into buying a new army. GW seems to be showing little to no interest in updating the faction besides a token Codex update.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
At this point if I were a Sister player I would look into buying a new army. GW seems to be showing little to no interest in updating the faction besides a token Codex update.

If I had much interest in the other armies, I probably would have by now.

Honestly, I think if Sisters of Battle were ended as an ongoing faction, I'd do one of two things.

1-Quit Warhammer 40k tabletop altogether, play some of the better video games about it.
2-Play 5th edition 40k tabletop with my Witch Hunters Codex, never buy another rulebook again.

I don't think they will squat Sisters, the interest is there in the fan base for them to justify making them. But like Chaos, they are going to need a massive investment of time from the design department. One day, someone there is going to have a lightbulb pop up and say...hey we should do sisters.

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't think they will squat Sisters, the interest is there in the fan base for them to justify making them. But like Chaos, they are going to need a massive investment of time from the design department. One day, someone there is going to have a lightbulb pop up and say...hey we should do sisters.

GW doesn't know the interest is there.

They have openly said that they do zero market research at any time, and rely exclusively on sales numbers to decide what to invest in making.

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't think they will squat Sisters, the interest is there in the fan base for them to justify making them. But like Chaos, they are going to need a massive investment of time from the design department. One day, someone there is going to have a lightbulb pop up and say...hey we should do sisters.

GW doesn't know the interest is there.

They have openly said that they do zero market research at any time, and rely exclusively on sales numbers to decide what to invest in making.

It takes real leadership to blindly pick an option. Anybody can pick something they know about.

pm713 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't think they will squat Sisters, the interest is there in the fan base for them to justify making them. But like Chaos, they are going to need a massive investment of time from the design department. One day, someone there is going to have a lightbulb pop up and say...hey we should do sisters.

GW doesn't know the interest is there.

They have openly said that they do zero market research at any time, and rely exclusively on sales numbers to decide what to invest in making.

It takes real leadership to blindly pick an option. Anybody can pick something they know about.

I was elected to lead, not to read.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

Sisters have a current Codex that can field an entire army by itself, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. It's just not a top-tier army without allies, which is not unique to the faction.

Aye, the SoB can easily field a full army. They're not top stuff like SM, Eldar or Tau (or Necrons) but they are solid. The real problem is that you have to pay hard cash and lots of it to get special/heavy weapons in enough quantity to use the SoB well.

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't think they will squat Sisters, the interest is there in the fan base for them to justify making them. But like Chaos, they are going to need a massive investment of time from the design department. One day, someone there is going to have a lightbulb pop up and say...hey we should do sisters.

GW doesn't know the interest is there.

They have openly said that they do zero market research at any time, and rely exclusively on sales numbers to decide what to invest in making.

My gut feeling is, that has changed, along with a lot of things at GW.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

Sisters have a current Codex that can field an entire army by itself, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. It's just not a top-tier army without allies, which is not unique to the faction.

Aye, the SoB can easily field a full army. They're not top stuff like SM, Eldar or Tau (or Necrons) but they are solid. The real problem is that you have to pay hard cash and lots of it to get special/heavy weapons in enough quantity to use the SoB well.

I don't EVER want Sisters of Battle to be a top-tier overpowered army.

Because I saw that happen to Grey Knights. And what happened was that every powergaming twit swapped to Grey Knights, and very quickly anyone who played Grey Knights was called a powergamer.

The point that really drove it home for me was a particular Grey Knights player who'd been playing the army as his main force for years, had a full amount of metal miniatures, and still, people who he'd been playing against with his Grey Knights before the Codex was even rumored, accused him of being a power gamer. Despite his army of metal, well-painted miniatures they knew he'd had for years.

Point out the obvious facts to them? Yup, he did that. The response? Just swap the powergaming FotM army swapper comments for comments about how he hadn't been playing the army for a while before the Codex came out.

If Sisters of Battle get a good update, but with overpowered rules, every last Sisters of Battle fan on the planet will be quickly lumped in with the power gamers. And people will give zero feths.

Personally, I don't want to receive those comments whenever I talk about my favorite army in the tabletop game. I like playing the downtrodden faction, really. My favorite race in World of Warcraft is the Draenei, and their primary contribution to the game's lore is that the Orcs massacred 80-90% of their entire population at one point.

Sometimes the concept of a huge overhaul scares me because I think GW will try to compensate for the lack of previous interest in the faction by making them so overpowered all the powergamers will buy them. And then I get called every name in the book every time I mention I play Sisters of Battle.

Powerful? Sure. More tools for a variety of situations not covered already? Absolutely. But NEVER top-tier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I don't think they will squat Sisters, the interest is there in the fan base for them to justify making them. But like Chaos, they are going to need a massive investment of time from the design department. One day, someone there is going to have a lightbulb pop up and say...hey we should do sisters.

GW doesn't know the interest is there.

They have openly said that they do zero market research at any time, and rely exclusively on sales numbers to decide what to invest in making.

My gut feeling is, that has changed, along with a lot of things at GW.

It had better have.

Because a couple of years ago I got some pretty solid proof that they actually are monitoring the fan sites. Though at the time it seemed to just be their legal team who was monitoring those sites.

That proof is that I uploaded photos of a White Dwarf I got in the mail a few days early, and 4 hours after being uploaded they were taken down with a Cease and Desist order from GW's legal team. And the only place I posted them was here.

Of course, given that the reaction I got from Dakkaites was that those photographs were just rumors like the random things rumormongers say with zero proof, I quickly decided that if I ever get actual advance info like that again, I'm not sharing.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So spoiler alert!

GW actual can and has made plastic sisters but no for retail. If you wanna see plastic sisters you need to entice GW to make them, meaning they need to move all of their old metal modes before they will even fathom the idea of making plastic ones.

So if you want better newer sisters, go buy more sisters

If they were looking to liquidate the stock they have they would just have to drop them back into the pot of molten metal they use to make new models from. They disappear instantly and you can then make any model you care too by changing molds.

Sisters have three stinker units (celestians are worst, pen engines and repentia are not popular) but the Codex is fine otherwise. The AoF could use an overhaul but GW is just as likely to ruin it rather than fix it. I'm fine not pressing my luck, sniping ebay for deals on sisters, converting repressors, and accumulating bits for a super heavy church tank.

Apart from purging Aliens, cleansing Mutants and burning Heretics thats all I need.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So spoiler alert!

GW actual can and has made plastic sisters but no for retail. If you wanna see plastic sisters you need to entice GW to make them, meaning they need to move all of their old metal modes before they will even fathom the idea of making plastic ones.

So if you want better newer sisters, go buy more sisters

If they were looking to liquidate the stock they have they would just have to drop them back into the pot of molten metal they use to make new models from. They disappear instantly and you can then make any model you care too by changing molds.

Sisters have three stinker units (celestians are worst, pen engines and repentia are not popular) but the Codex is fine otherwise. The AoF could use an overhaul but GW is just as likely to ruin it rather than fix it. I'm fine not pressing my luck, sniping ebay for deals on sisters, converting repressors, and accumulating bits for a super heavy church tank.

Apart from purging Aliens, cleansing Mutants and burning Heretics thats all I need.

More to the point, I've heard that exact speculation about how they're just running down their stock for years.

During that time, models have gone out of stock and come back in stock repeatedly. And the stuff that gets discontinued completely manages to somehow keep the entire range juuuuust varied enough to make a playable army.

If they're really just running down their stock, they should probably realize at some point that running down your existing stock is impossible if you just keep making more of them.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

Or specify certain units as available for the SoB army. Regiments of Guard, Rhino transports, possibly IG heavy support, throw whatever super heavies people care about nowadays. I mean, it's possible without even going unbound. Not to mention that with a base SoB plastic set and add on sprues, you could have enough Elites, HS, and FA to bulk out the army. Really the only reason that I can see that they haven't done a Sisters army is because they are afraid boobs won't sell. To gamers.

And this really highlights the weakness of the way they're organizing the Imperium forces. There is almost zero reason there shouldn't be one large nicely written codex for Imperial Agents. Combine your Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Sisters of Battle, Arbites, Assassins etc. into one book. Almost none of these really justify an army or codex by themselves as they currently sit. You could rein in the Grey Knights, bolster the usefulness of Sisters, bring in some new sweet plastic Arbites for fun...lots of options which really should be in one big book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I don't play current 40K but I can see one big issue with the Sisters of Battle in the current game. Inevitably GW would make their own book and their own army (because...money). But even in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle were a very limited army which relied more on allies than real substance themselves. While heavily armored etc. they are so slim in the selection of units that they'd be hopeless in the current game (if you wanted to field a solely Sisters of Battle force, sans allies).

This, in turn, means that GW would have to likely bulk up the entire force/army, introduce new units and do a full launch - thus supporting an entire new product line. This is why I'm doubtful of this happening. I do think however they could be clever and produce 30K-esque models which could very easily be used as Sisters of Battle. This way they produce a small board-game's worth of miniatures (in plastic) without having to commit to an entire line. Much like the Genestealer Cult figures - they can release a highly desirable product without having to commit to supporting it for 20 years with more model releases and codices etc. They can fill the gap for the diehard fans in a cheaper more efficient way --- let the players sort out the rest.

Or they could do a boardgame with Sisters in 40K and accomplish the same thing. The board games have given GW a huge "out" when it comes to producing niche figures if they decide to use it. "Oh these are board game pieces only, but they happen to fit perfectly into that gap in our 40K line".

I've never bought one of GW's board games so I don't know what the models in them are like. Answer some questions for me, if you please.

-Are they mono-pose like the 40k starter set minis, or multi-part multi-posable like standard plastic models?
-What's the pricing like for buying the board games for the models? Is it comparable to standard plastic kits if you assume that every model in the kit will be used?
-Are the board games available for a limited time only, or could I buy another set if I decide I need more models five years from now?

Depends on the board game. If you look at the higher price ones as Betrayal at Calth etc. you're getting 100% game miniatures, with the exception of a couple push-fit heroes which are in line with modern plastic character sprues. $150 for the box (so $125 from a retailer) and you get three full tactical squads, a five man terminator squad, two characters and a dreadnought + the actual game itself. Very reasonable --- and these sprues have now been released as plastic kits for nearly double that price. Deathwatch has more limited poseability but a large assortment of nicely sculpted genestealer cultists etc. Again I think this was a $150 box with a good assortment of miniatures - at discount a reasonable purchase. No idea on the availability of board games. The ones like Betrayal at Calth will be around in sprue-form for a long time. Others I couldn't tell you. But in a simple game like Deathwatch GW was able to feed the whims of a lot of older players who missed the old Genestealer Cult army lists...I'd argue probably 80% of the people who bought that game bought it for the Genestealer Cultists, regardless of what edition of 40K they play (or Inquisitor, Necromunda, Inquisimunda - whatever).

I think Games Workshop is currently on the wrong side of demographic trends on this one. The population of the United States is 51% female, and I'd hazard a guess that the gaming geek community is following suite, particularly with the younger generations. So, it makes sense to have a product that appeals to both male and female gamers. However, GW's best selling game has very little in the way of female armies, miniatures, or characters, and their flagship army has no female representation at all. Heck, they don't even have a female Farseer despite the fact that all the Dawn of War games thus far have portrayed the Farseers as female. Nor do they have a dedicated mini for Inquisitor Valyria, despite the fact she's one of the named characters in the Inquisition codex, and being Ordo Xenos, you'd think she'd be a character they'd want a mini for to go along with the Deathwatch release.

I'm not saying revamping the Sisters would completely fix the female under-representation in 40K, but it'd be a start. Plus, in the setting the Sisters of Battle are probably more numerous than Space Marines, and would be more likely to be encountered by the average Imperial citizen/soldier. Additionally, it's the main fighting force of the Ecclesiarchy and tied to the Ordo Hereticus, so it's important thematically. Plus, if the Dark Eldar have shown us anything, it's that a long-neglected force that gets a much-deserved revamp can generate a lot of excitement.

The Sisters wouldn't need that many new units - perhaps one each in Elites, Troops, and Fast Attack, and the Fast Attack could be the Avenger Strike Fighter, maybe with a Sororitas pilot. There's already a plastic kit for Immolators. Make one for Repressors as well (or maybe do a combined Immolator/Repressor kit). Maybe give Dominions a Fast Rhino variant. All the infantry units besides Repentias could be based off a common Sisters body, which would make it easy to build boxes around a common sprue of bodies with accessory sprues as appropriate for Celestians, Dominions, Seraphim, and Retributors. The release could be tied into a Crusade of Faith campaign, that could include the Black Templars as well (just to give it the obligatory Astartes tie-in).

I don't think one can realistically argue there's not a market for new plastic Sisters either, considering the fact there are third-party companies beginning to produce minis to fill the void GW is leaving.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
At this point if I were a Sister player I would look into buying a new army. GW seems to be showing little to no interest in updating the faction besides a token Codex update.

And what other army would that be? Space Borings, a bunch of screaming old angry bald white guys who aren't even human? Imperial Guard, an army consisting of units with no power armor and drastically different feel and playstyle? Inquisition, which isn't even really an army but a collection of people wearing nice hats trying to command everyone else's armies? Chaos Space Borings, which are a bunch of screaming angry old bald white guys with daddy issues (and are even less human)? Eldar, a bunch of psychic space elf pansies that have almost the exact opposite playstyle?

Yes, the above is hyperbole. The point is, though-- there's nothing in 40k that has the same fluff or playstyle as Sisters do. And removing them or folding them in to some lame-ass codex so that you can instead justify making Space Borings color variant #21,321,654,564 like boring people such as Elbows suggest is just plain lame and shows a complete lack of respect for the source material.

 Elbows wrote:
And this really highlights the weakness of the way they're organizing the Imperium forces. There is almost zero reason there shouldn't be one large nicely written codex for Imperial Agents. Combine your Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Sisters of Battle, Arbites, Assassins etc. into one book. Almost none of these really justify an army or codex by themselves as they currently sit. You could rein in the Grey Knights, bolster the usefulness of Sisters, bring in some new sweet plastic Arbites for fun...lots of options which really should be in one big book.

There's the beauty of it, say you have 20-35% of the player base plays one of those Imperial armies. Each one buys its individual book. Now, if you had one book with all the lists to pool from, you could get those people to all get the same book, maximizing profits. Model releases are already covered, but maybe a touch of cross-sell for the Rhino on the package, as well as some of the other multiforce kits.

You're right, let's delete all the Space Borings books and throw them in, too-- they're part of the Imperium, too. You know, why not also throw the Chaos Borings in there, too, since they're really not all that different from the Space Borings? And hey if Chaos Borings are thrown in, Daemons will have to join them, of course, it'd be bad if Chaos Borings and Chaos Daemons had to pull from two separate books to make a Chaos army, right? And then of course, why not throw all of the xeno armies in it, too, or just give them their own book? I mean it's not like they're going to be popular enough to merit their own books compared to the One Big Imperium book. And then we can have just one big blob of book, the Big 'Ol Book one would call it, which has only the most generic and boring iterations of each faction, because that's all that they could fit in.

And everyone would be happy*.


*Except for those who aren't.

Drama much?


To my mind, most of the SM chapters should be under one book. I personally don't care how boring you find anything or how entitled you feel. IF there was a way to get your list out and kits to go with it, would you really feel that indignant having other Imperial units in the same book? If so, I don't have the words...

I cannot express enough my disdain the stupid ideas of "stuff everything in to one book" without being dramatic.

It is the lazy option for those who have given up and have no creative thoughts of their own.

OR it's the fact that rather than squat your army they find a way to generate enough potential sales to get the book to be carried. If my choices were deep sixing my favorite army or having it released in a group Codex, my choice would take no effort at all.

 Melissia wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
At this point if I were a Sister player I would look into buying a new army. GW seems to be showing little to no interest in updating the faction besides a token Codex update.

And what other army would that be? Space Borings, a bunch of screaming old angry bald white guys who aren't even human? Imperial Guard, an army consisting of units with no power armor and drastically different feel and playstyle? Inquisition, which isn't even really an army but a collection of people wearing nice hats trying to command everyone else's armies? Chaos Space Borings, which are a bunch of screaming angry old bald white guys with daddy issues (and are even less human)? Eldar, a bunch of psychic space elf pansies that have almost the exact opposite playstyle?

Yes, the above is hyperbole. The point is, though-- there's nothing in 40k that has the same fluff or playstyle as Sisters do. And removing them or folding them in to some lame-ass codex so that you can instead justify making Space Borings color variant #21,321,654,564 like boring people such as Elbows suggest is just plain lame and shows a complete lack of respect for the source material.

Not all Space Marines are white. Check your privilege, mate.

I am just being realistic. I for one do not want the Sisters to be deleted so don't insinuate that I do. If they released a new plastic sisters with an overhauled aesthetics and rules I'd go buy an army. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards for GW. I applaud the patience for which Sisters have that GW will provide an update for their army. However, GW seems to prefer releasing more kits for the "Space Borings". To the point that I, as a privileged Space Borings player, find it plainly fething ridiculous.

 Just Tony wrote:
There's the beauty of it, say you have 20-35% of the player base plays one of those Imperial armies. Each one buys its individual book. Now, if you had one book with all the lists to pool from, you could get those people to all get the same book, maximizing profits.

That only really works if you assume the books are especially expensive to produce in the first place, when GW actually makes a lot of money off of them as they are. The most expensive parts of the army book are the rules development (jokes asside) and lore contained therein, the latter part becomes cheaper with new books as they can and do option to reuse a lot of stuff, and the model pictures and so on come from the larger marketing pool that contributes to the advertising, box art, promotional material, etc. So a larger codex packed with rules for multiple army components and proportionately less pictures and stories would need to be proportionately more expensive to turn the same percentage of profit in the return. It's much more palatable to GW to try to split the rules up across still more books.

But that aside, I think an 'agents of the imperium' book has been discussed already and I don't think it makes sense. A codex should encompass a command structure, and not be for multiple disperate allies. We have examples of these groups working together in the lore, they don't work reasonably well enough together to justify having them under one command structure. An arbites commander will never be able to tell grey knights what to do.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I am just being realistic.

So am I-- my hyperbole earlier was done partially in jest. The fact is, though, there's just nothing that really matches Sisters as far as a combination of lore and gameplay goes.

 Melissia wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I am just being realistic.

So am I-- my hyperbole earlier was done partially in jest. The fact is, though, there's just nothing that really matches Sisters as far as a combination of lore and gameplay goes.

Poe's law is a cruel mistress.

In fact, I'm actually okay with Marines having tons of codices for their variants.

What I'm ultimately not okay with is them being the ONLY ones who do.

I'm curious why someone would be against getting more bang for their buck in a single book? It obviously won't happen because GW is chasing money and not value. The list of books/codices/etc. available for 7th edition is borderline absurd...and almost none of it is necessary.

Look back at the 2nd ed. codices. The Chaos codex included full army lists for Chaos Marines, Daemons and Cultists...the Tyranid book included Nids and Genestealer Cult. The Eldar book included Harlequins (and all of their fancy rules). The current books are already scant on text and heavy on pictures while being pretty damn expensive.

If you think a new Sisters codex would be worth $50+ whatever they want to charge, by all means...you're welcome to it.

Because GW will ramp up the price and I pay more for the same.

Sure, it's just a pipe dream. I don't think anybody puts forth actual ideas with any vague hope that GW would do it. I don't see GW backing off their current business model. I'm simply stating that their current business model sucks for customers.

 Elbows wrote:
I'm curious why someone would be against getting more bang for their buck in a single book?

Because you're not getting 'bang for your buck' if you don't want what you're buying. I'm sure the guy who wants arbite troops lead by an inquisitor flanked by dreadknights and exorcists would love such a book, but if I'm going in to play sisters I want a book that has more than one option in any given category. If my entire army is only a fraction of the choices available in the book I purchased for full price (whatever that price may be) that's money wasted.

Moreover, I'm not in this hobby because I found a box of space marines in a bargain bin. I want GW to recognize the market value of their product, I want them to believe in their product enough to support it, because I know it aligns with my interests, and I know I'm not the only one out there.

 Elbows wrote:
I'm curious why someone would be against getting more bang for their buck in a single book?

Because shoving everything in to one book will ultimately destroy the uniqueness of each individual part crammed in. If GW can't even manage to get their beloved SpehssMuhreenz-- half a dozen factions that are pretty much identical with only a few minor differences in my eyes-- in one book without feeling the need to expand on them with new codices, how the hell could they get half a dozen far more wildly disparate factions in without them being equally lame?

I don't want that kind of crap shoveled out. I want GW to put some fething effort in to it instead. And, inevitably with GW, if you have half a dozen factions crammed in one book, none of them will get the justice they deserve.

Yet, strangely enough, Forgeworld has managed to accomplish it. But, as you say, effort is required, which is something that Forgeworld does that GW doesn't.

Are you referring to 30k?


I'd like to point out that all of those armies are Marines, so they're all pretty similar to begin with, unlike Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Arbites, Inquisition, and the other Misc. Imperial Forces.

Plastic Sisters are an dream that many of us would love to see. I know that I would happily run them along side my Guard, but at the wonderful price of £50+ a squad GW can feth right off.
However GW will not make plastic sisters while they can churn out yet more space marine on space marine p**n for space marine fans.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Plastic Sisters are an dream that many of us would love to see. I know that I would happily run them along side my Guard, but at the wonderful price of £50+ a squad GW can feth right off.
However GW will not make plastic sisters while they can churn out yet more space marine on space marine p**n for space marine fans.

And in the Meantime im just hunting Bitz sites for Female DE Kabalite Chestpieces and Legs

That+Greenstuff would probably work out cheaper than GWs Pricing for Outdated Metal Models
(And if it works out extra, having multipose models compared to GWs Static models is well worth the price)

Hey, with those knock-off SOBs from russia, will the guys responsible be able to sue GW for infringement, when they release new plastic SoBs?

 Melissia wrote:
The point is, though-- there's nothing in 40k that has the same fluff or playstyle as Sisters do.

Are you trying to contend there's no army in 40k that uses power armor, bolters, meltas, flamers, and rhinos? I can think of one for sure...

I have a friend who plays Sisters, and I find their play style to be sufficiently different from Marines to warrant their place in the game and to be interesting. Particularly if you factor in Repressors. Plus, GW really needs to step up their female representation in 40K to catch up with the demographic curve.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The point is, though-- there's nothing in 40k that has the same fluff or playstyle as Sisters do.

Are you trying to contend there's no army in 40k that uses power armor, bolters, meltas, flamers, and rhinos? I can think of one for sure...

Space Marines don't have to build their force with the near-total lack of anything else.

Other than bolters, flamers, meltas, rhinos and an assortment of power weapons equalled by the Imperial Guard (IG have power fists, SoB have eviscerators, otherwise there's not much difference) the Sisters of Battle have the Exorcist and... that's about it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The point is, though-- there's nothing in 40k that has the same fluff or playstyle as Sisters do.

Are you trying to contend there's no army in 40k that uses power armor, bolters, meltas, flamers, and rhinos? I can think of one for sure...

I hope the one you're thinking of isn't Space Marines, because the last 20 games I've played against SM has been grav, grav, grav, grav, grav and grav.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The point is, though-- there's nothing in 40k that has the same fluff or playstyle as Sisters do.

Are you trying to contend there's no army in 40k that uses power armor, bolters, meltas, flamers, and rhinos? I can think of one for sure...

Are you trying to tell me that there's another army in 40k that consists of all-women non-astartes soldiers in power armor, who have a strong non-military section (that does everything from manage Imperial politics, provide hospitals, and keep track of ancient knowledge and relics), who are actually able to regulate and go toe to toe with both the Inquisition and the Astartes on both a military and a political level?

Because if such a thing exists, that would be pretty weird that I didn't find out about it sooner.

Oh wait I'm sorry they don't exist and you're full of crap. Sisters of Battle have long since carved out a gameplay and lore niche that is more than your accusation of them being female Space Marines. In fact, the fact that they AREN'T Space Marines is one of the biggest draws for quite a few people. They are mere human beings, given some of the best training and wargear in the galaxy. And yet, through faith, training, and firepower, they move mountains, and conquer worlds, standing toe to toe with the best that any other Imperial, Xeno, or Heretic faction in the galaxy.

 Melissia wrote:
They are mere human beings, given some of the best training and wargear in the galaxy. And yet, through faith, training, and firepower, they move mountains, and conquer worlds, standing toe to toe with the best that any other Imperial, Xeno, or Heretic faction in the galaxy.

And the Guard do the same things, but without the training or equipment. If we're trying to find the heroic every-man in 40k, he or she still wears a flak vest.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
And the Guard do the same things, but without the training or equipment. If we're trying to find the heroic every-man in 40k, he or she still wears a flak vest.

There's room in 40k for more than the two extremes of "weak grunts thrown en masse in the hope that their viscera will clog the enemy's treads" and "super-badass ultramutant demigods who are totally better than everyone else". Sisters are very good at filling that middle ground. And not everyone who is more elite than a guardsman needs to be wearing paper mache and wielding a glorified flashlight.

I'm very tempted by the Russian resins - I'd use them as Celestians I reckon. Or maybe just go "argh why not" and get myself that big 20 woman squad with storm bolters to sit on an objective and giggle as they Act of Faith their way to glory and victory, helped by a friendly Priest.

I really hope that plastic SoB happen before I hit my 40th birthday (I'm 30 this year). I would spend all my money on them.

 Melissia wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
And the Guard do the same things, but without the training or equipment. If we're trying to find the heroic every-man in 40k, he or she still wears a flak vest.

There's room in 40k for more than the two extremes of "weak grunts thrown en masse in the hope that their viscera will clog the enemy's treads" and "super-badass ultramutant demigods who are totally better than everyone else". Sisters are very good at filling that middle ground. And not everyone who is more elite than a guardsman needs to be wearing paper mache and wielding a glorified flashlight.

Like those guys who are older than SoB don't?

I don't care that you want your special, snow-flake army to keep existing. I want the same thing for mine. But making baseless claims about how nothing at all in 40k is like SoB doesn't help your case.

SoB are not that different than many other armies along any axis of character except for being a miniature range of mostly human ladies (it's not even all ladies).

SoBs aren't like the Militarum Tempestus. The Acts of Faith makes them play considerably differently. Nice try, DarknessEternal, but a near miss.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Like those guys who are older than SoB

Excuse me, I'm going to be over here laughing and not taking you seriously because you honestly believe that crap you just posted.

Regardless, your anti-Sororitas screed has been amusing, but ultimately only goes to show that you don't really know much about 40k.

Of course sister is an option. They need release some stuff to make time to finish a new edition....and launch the new chaos space marines as test codex xD. If they release the new chaos space marines codex before the new expansion it could be decent....GW cant allow that xD

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
SoBs aren't like the Militarum Tempestus. The Acts of Faith makes them play considerably differently. Nice try, DarknessEternal, but a near miss.

Now that we have Chapter Tactic doctrines, Doctrina Imperatives, Mission Tactics, IG Orders and Canticles of the Omnissiah, it's tougher than ever to see anything unique or interesting about the Sisters.

Real News wrote:
Now that we have Chapter Tactic doctrines, Doctrina Imperatives, Mission Tactics, IG Orders and Canticles of the Omnissiah, it's tougher than ever to see anything unique or interesting about the Sisters.

When you allow a faction to go unsupported with no new material for over 13 years, it tends to not look as exciting as things which get updated almost yearly. However, there is a core concept within the Sisters of Battle and their gameplay that is still different than any of those.

 Melissia wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Like those guys who are older than SoB

Excuse me, I'm going to be over here laughing and not taking you seriously because you honestly believe that crap you just posted.

Regardless, your anti-Sororitas screed has been amusing, but ultimately only goes to show that you don't really know much about 40k.

If they mean that IG Stormtroopers have been around before the Sororitas chronologically, then since Sororitas were created about 5,000 years ago and Stormtroopers more like 10,000 years, then yes, they are actually correct.

However, that's probably not what they meant, and I remember when IG Stormtroopers (now called Militarum Tempestus) were ONLY an Elites option in the IG Codex you could take at most 30 of in any non-Apocalypse game instead of them being a seriously distinct faction with their own unique Codex (obligatory grumble about Tempestus getting a hard copy codex for two units, an HQ choice, and two extremely similar vehicles, with the HQ choice being the only option actually not available in the IG Codex but the model being a perfect stand-in for a regular Commissar), so my opinion is that they can take their Tempestus and shove it.

Real News wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
SoBs aren't like the Militarum Tempestus. The Acts of Faith makes them play considerably differently. Nice try, DarknessEternal, but a near miss.

Now that we have Chapter Tactic doctrines, Doctrina Imperatives, Mission Tactics, IG Orders and Canticles of the Omnissiah, it's tougher than ever to see anything unique or interesting about the Sisters.

New can be good, great or exciting new models equally so. Why would Adepta Sororitas "Order Disciplines" not be as effective and interssting as the above?

Then you have the self mockery that the Space Wolves range has become.... lets hope we never get the Santa Logan and Sleigh equivalent for Sisters.

There is not a single reson that if GW wanted they could not make awesome Sisters models. They just have to want to make something other than Marines for 40k.

I was assuming he meant chronologically released. Militarium Tempestus came after Sisters as far as Games Workshop releases go-- Sisters have been in the lore from 1st edition, so it's literally impossible for them to not be older than a 6th edition codex, and even stormtroopers themselves IIRC were introduced in second (there were some minis that COULD be said to be stormtroopers in 1st I suppose).

 Mr Morden wrote:

Real News wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
SoBs aren't like the Militarum Tempestus. The Acts of Faith makes them play considerably differently. Nice try, DarknessEternal, but a near miss.

Now that we have Chapter Tactic doctrines, Doctrina Imperatives, Mission Tactics, IG Orders and Canticles of the Omnissiah, it's tougher than ever to see anything unique or interesting about the Sisters.

New can be good, great or exciting new models equally so. Why would Adepta Sororitas "Order Disciplines" not be as effective and interssting as the above?

Then you have the self mockery that the Space Wolves range has become.... lets hope we never get the Santa Logan and Sleigh equivalent for Sisters.

There is not a single reson that if GW wanted they could not make awesome Sisters models. They just have to want to make something other than Marines for 40k.

Idea. The Sororitas Lord of War tank could have its primary weapon be a Vulcan Mega-bolter.

Tell me you couldn't see the Sororitas gleefully using that weapon to slaughter heretics as making anything other than perfect sense. I dare you.

The Adepta Sororitas are a T3 3+ save army with bolters. They have Acts of Faith, Rhinos and Immolators, and several unit types; and they include Priests, Penitent Engines and Arco-Flagellants (and Crusaders etc).

Stormtroopers are a T3 4+ save army with hellguns. Stormtroopers have Orders. They travel in Valkyries, Chimeras or Tauroxes.

Chronologically, Stormtroopers were introduced in the 2nd Edition Codex: Imperial Guard. Sisters of Battle have been around since Rogue Trader. Sisters of Battle got their own codex before Stormtroopers did (long before - in the closing years of 2nd Edition in fact).

Sisters of Battle give Imperial players a Powered Armour army that excels at the mid-range firefight, and which embodies the faith and fury of the Cult Imperialis. It is unique amongst the Imperial forces, and unique amongst the armies of 40K, not just because it is comprised almost entirely of female figures.

 Melissia wrote:
Are you referring to 30k?


I'd like to point out that all of those armies are Marines, so they're all pretty similar to begin with, unlike Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Arbites, Inquisition, and the other Misc. Imperial Forces.

He may refer to the Crusade Imperialis book, which fits in the Imperial Militia, Warp Cults, Solar Auxilia and Questoris Knight Crusade lists in one book.

See, with that as precedent, you could easily do a Codex: Cult Imperialis or Codex: Imperial Truth or something, which contains:

Sisters of Battle
Ecclesiarchy forces (Frateris Militia, priests, arco-flagellants, etc)
Adeptus Arbites

That'd be nice. I'd buy that.

Or instead GW could put some actual fething effort in to it and give them their own books. Because if Random Space Marine Chapter #377 can get its own book, factions with ACTUAL differences should get theirs, too.

Because, frankly, Sisters are worth the effort, no matter how much you rudely want to gak on the faction and say they aren't.

Oh, I completely agree. But I'd love to see the Arbites and the Ecclesiarchy represented too, and putting them in with the Sisters makes a certain degree of sense given that the Sororitas are primarily a garrison force whose role is to protect pilgrims, shrine worlds, and Ecclesiarchical holdings, which means that they and the Arbites are often the first line of defence when the PDF splits in the inevitable cult-driven civil war!

Really I think what they need to look at is the completion of the "Inquisition triumverate" and have an overarching codex to cover the Inquisition as a whole.

The Grey knights fight demons, the new deathwatch release covers Xenos and there needs to be an inquisition/ecclesiarchy set to cover Heresy.

This would include the AS as a whole (and the SoB especially) with scope to bring in more aspects of the imperial cult. the army though will need to be rounded and purposeful rather than just "female space marine equivalents in high heels and "Chesty" armour".

Treating the SoB as a separate "female fighting force"/Ecclesiarchy army would be more problematic when it comes to sales and overall usage i think though...

K.

In the recent fluff, both the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch are becoming more and more independant of the inquisition - in their Codex, the DW are just said to work with them.

The Sororitas is the same - they may act with or for the Ordo Herecticus, but they are act indepentandly as the GK adn DW - in a similar manner they have their own ships.

Gen.Steiner wrote:
See, with that as precedent, you could easily do a Codex: Cult Imperialis or Codex: Imperial Truth or something, which contains:

Sisters of Battle
Ecclesiarchy forces (Frateris Militia, priests, arco-flagellants, etc)
Adeptus Arbites

That'd be nice. I'd buy that.

I'd be happy to buy a codex with just sisters in it, but I'm not going to complain if the other Ecclesiarchy forces make it into the book as well.

Well, looking at their Codex history, the Ecclesiarchy has always been represented alongside the Sisters in some form or another. I don't think that'll change. I'd just like to see it expanded.

The "jam everything in one codex" argument just seems to be more along the lines of "I don't care so just throw them in so people will shut up about them so GW can work on something I actually care about"-- or, in other words, you're asking for the equivalent of the latest Sisters "codex", a "book" that added nothing and actually took a lot of options away.

Me? I want an Adepta Sororitas book with the size and internal complexity and consistency of the Space Marine codex.

Melissia wrote:Or instead GW could put some actual fething effort in to it and give them their own books. Because if Random Space Marine Chapter #377 can get its own book, factions with ACTUAL differences should get theirs, too.

Because, frankly, Sisters are worth the effort, no matter how much you rudely want to gak on the faction and say they aren't.

Melissia wrote:The "jam everything in one codex" argument just seems to be more along the lines of "I don't care so just throw them in so people will shut up about them so GW can work on something I actually care about"-- or, in other words, you're asking for the equivalent of the latest Sisters "codex", a "book" that added nothing and actually took a lot of options away.

Me? I want an Adepta Sororitas book with the size and internal complexity and consistency of the Space Marine codex.

So basically you would rather have no faction update at all if your only other choice was to include smaller IoM units/forces in the book to buff sales up to what GW expects from a new release? Because that's what I'm basically getting from you. "I want the exact same release volume/quality/attention as the most popular of ALL GW's armies, interest, sales data, and pitiful showing of online pressure to GW be damned!"

Yes, I would rather have nothing than to have GW gak down my throat.

I'm sure you enjoy having your throat shat down, but I assure you it is not an activity I find pleasant, enjoyable, or desirable.

The problem with the idea that GW will make a better codex if the army is on its own is that it's not a guarantee. In fact, one of the best examples of this not being the case is the other half of the old witchhunter codex: Inquisition. The Inquisition had MORE options back in the day, and now it's just a pamphlet for you to use that one cool model you have and his Scooby-Doo group of hanger-ons as a plug in for imperial armies to abuse the hell out of the allies chart rather than one of THE most important and powerful organisations in the Imperium.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
The problem with the idea that GW will make a better codex if the army is on its own is that it's not a guarantee. In fact, one of the best examples of this not being the case is [...] The Inquisition

The Inquisition elements in C:WH had always relied upon Sisters to begin with in order to function properly. Sure they could have theoretically formed a legit army using inquisitorial stormtrooper, but said army was amongst the weakest in the game, if not the weakest.

The inquisition as it is now isn't much better. But it actually proves MY point as well-- that GW will not be able to write the independent armies as actually independent of each other. Then again, the Inquisition was never truly and independent force to begin with, so that's not surprising, but be that was it may...

I would say a torrent apoc flamer is the only option for the long dreamed of cathedral tank.

 Melissia wrote:
The "jam everything in one codex" argument just seems to be more along the lines of "I don't care so just throw them in so people will shut up about them so GW can work on something I actually care about"-- or, in other words, you're asking for the equivalent of the latest Sisters "codex", a "book" that added nothing and actually took a lot of options away.

Me? I want an Adepta Sororitas book with the size and internal complexity and consistency of the Space Marine codex.

I think that the Codex: Witchhunters was probably, hands-down, the best Sisters codex ever. I mean that's not saying a lot, because so far they've had two paperback Codexes, one White Dwarf Codex, and an e-pub Codex. But still. I like it a lot, for the background, the art, and the rules. I wouldn't mind at all if that got a rewrite to update it for 7th or 8th Edition!

 Melissia wrote:
Yes, I would rather have nothing than to have GW gak down my throat.

I'm sure you enjoy having your throat shat down, but I assure you it is not an activity I find pleasant, enjoyable, or desirable.

"gak down my throat"? So mixing units in your book is "gaking down your throat"? Words fail me...

 Just Tony wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yes, I would rather have nothing than to have GW gak down my throat.

I'm sure you enjoy having your throat shat down, but I assure you it is not an activity I find pleasant, enjoyable, or desirable.

"gak down my throat"? So mixing units in your book is "gaking down your throat"? Words fail me...

You're right. Let's remove all Space Marine codices and cram a few choice Space Marine units in to Codex: Imperial Guard instead.

Clearly this is the future of codex-making.

If my army gets produced, I'm happy as a clam. For an entire edition my Chapter went from founding legion to ignored offshoot. My entire fantasy game was deep sixed. Speaking of which, how many armies for that system got stuck with a 15+ year old army list and had to make do? How many 40K armies sat through 2 or more editions using the same book? How many whole games got squatted? I'd be elated if BGF came back and got plastic ships all over the place, even if every fleet was in the same book.

For the life of me, I can't understand the intensity of your entitlement rants. Unless this is something more than simply getting an army.

 Melissia wrote:

You're right. Let's remove all Space Marine codices and cram a few choice Space Marine units in to Codex: Imperial Guard instead.

Clearly this is the future of codex-making.

To be fair, the Sisters of Battle codex is tiny. The actual rules are what, a few pages? Twenty at most if we space them generously? We can easily give them a stellar update that gives them three times as many mechanics and units and still fit them into a decently sized, say 150 page codex, with room to spare for others; and neither part really loses anything in the process, while gaining flexibility.

I'd be okay with smacking IG and SM factions into one massive codex. A huge 'Codex: Imperium' would not be too bad really.

I'm not. I'd rather have more, than settle for less. If the codex ends up just being a boring rehash of what we already have-- which isn't much, by your own admission-- why should that satisfy me?

As said, it wouldn't need to be a 'boring rehash.'

 Ashiraya wrote:
We can easily give them a stellar update that gives them three times as many mechanics and units

 Ashiraya wrote:
As said, it wouldn't need to be a 'boring rehash.'

 Ashiraya wrote:
We can easily give them a stellar update that gives them three times as many mechanics and units

I don't believe for a second that, were Sisters to be crammed in to someone else's codex, that would actually happen.

I am with Melissia on this. Combining the Sisters into a book that also features 2 or 3 other group will not do the faction any favors. The current Codex is already straying into this territory, what with all the auto-include Priests, Confessors and related non-Sisters Ecclesiarchy units.

Remember Storm of Chaos? 7 or more variant lists building on other army books? Some which were extensively redone, being almost a standalone list? Yeah, it's totally possible that having newer Codex size three proper lists could fit in the same book. And to be frank, I doubt GW would release a new Sisters book any other way.

Yeah... not really interested in playing my Sisters as an ally force.

But, let's face it, I (and customers like me) am not going to be the one to change GW's mind on this. GW has dragged its feet for too long, failed to engage with me (the customer) in any meaningful way for too long, and failed to cater to my hobby wants for too long that they've lost me, as a customer, probably forever.

Other companies are now doing Sisters-esque models better than GW ever has, in plastic and resin, to boot, for less than GW charges so... this is a battle that GW has lost.

I think there's a certain amount of misunderstanding going on over the last page or so. In the event of a hypothetical codex including the Sororitas, Arbites, and Inquisition, the Sororitas would still represent the bulk of the units in the book. Back in Codex: Witchhunters days, the non-Sororitas units in the book were the Inquisitors and their henchmen, Assassins, and Stormtroopers. Everything else was a SoB unit. Given that there's enough Sororitas units for a full dex, they'd still represent the bulk of the book in question.

Would they get new Sisters units? Maybe not. But, maybe being teamed with Inquisitors would give them access to Land Raiders, which would make Repentia a little more viable. Plus, one would hope the Repressor would make it in there. That's such a no brainer, it's not even funny.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Would they get new Sisters units? Maybe not.

Then what's the fething point?

If we aren't going to get jack fething diddly gak when ti comes to new stuff, what is the point? You realize that the last two codices we got jack fething diddly gak all, right? Getting nothing new is the current status quo, and we HATE the current status quo.

Hey guess what? Your new codex is coming out! But don't worry, we're not going to actually add anything NEW in it. Just the same old boring rehashed crap we've given you for the past twelve years. WHY AREN'T YOU EXCITED YET I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!?!?!? FINE I GUESS WE'LL INSTEAD JUST REMOVE UNITS FROM IT MAYBE THAT WILL EXCITE YOU!!!111ONe

You're telling me to settle for less even as other armies get metric fethtons of new stuff, and expecting me to be overjoyed at the idea, and yet you wonder why I reject it so completely and utterly?

(Yes, I am aware that I am using hyperbole, you don't have to tell me)

 Melissia wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Would they get new Sisters units? Maybe not.

Then what's the fething point?

If we aren't going to get jack fething diddly gak when ti comes to new stuff, what is the point? You realize that the last two codices we got jack fething diddly gak all, right? Getting nothing new is the current status quo, and we HATE the current status quo.

Hey guess what? Your new codex is coming out! But don't worry, we're not going to actually add anything NEW in it. Just the same old boring rehashed crap we've given you for the past twelve years. WHY AREN'T YOU EXCITED YET I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!?!?!? FINE I GUESS WE'LL INSTEAD JUST REMOVE UNITS FROM IT MAYBE THAT WILL EXCITE YOU!!!111ONe

You're telling me to settle for less even as other armies get metric fethtons of new stuff, and expecting me to be overjoyed at the idea, and yet you wonder why I reject it so completely and utterly?

(Yes, I am aware that I am using hyperbole, you don't have to tell me)

I have to agree with Melissa here, the Sisters have been really shafted these past few editions.

If they can make a swathe of new models for Deathwatch then there is no reason not do the same for Sisters.

Otherwise there woud be no need for Wolfy McWolf on his wolf sleigh pulled by wolves

hey they can do clothing for them !

https://teechip.com/stores/sob

 Melissia wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Would they get new Sisters units? Maybe not.

Then what's the fething point?

If we aren't going to get jack fething diddly gak when ti comes to new stuff, what is the point?

We'll for starters some of us would be delighted just to have a current printed codex.
Secondly, we would get formations, which is the one thing they sorely lack currently.
Thirdly, we would get Datacards.
Fourth, you know they would just have to tweak the rules, be it relics, or the Faith system.
Fifth, while it would be nice to have new units, they are by no means a neccesity.

Personally, I would like to the return of the Fraternis Militia, but it's not like Sisters have scouts or snipers to add as new units.

 adamsouza wrote:
Personally, I would like to the return of the Fraternis Militia, but it's not like Sisters have scouts or snipers to add as new units.

Why not?

 Melissia wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Personally, I would like to the return of the Fraternis Militia, but it's not like Sisters have scouts or snipers to add as new units.

Why not?

Because part of their flavor is that they exist as a loophole about the religious branch not having men at arms, and are not supposed to be organized like an actual army.

Wait..wait... Sisters of Silence Infiltrators would be awesome, and kind of like scouts.

Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

 adamsouza wrote:
Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

So use boltguns.

Done and done, your other objections were kinda pointless given GW retcons its fluff all the time so that it can us new units for other factions. Hell, Sisters have aircraft, why not snipers?

Hell, sniper-boltguns already exist in 40k so this is even sillier of an objection. Have them be 5-woman teams, one sergeant, four snipers. Don't make them be recruits, but rather capable soldiers.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Personally, I would like to the return of the Fraternis Militia, but it's not like Sisters have scouts or snipers to add as new units.

Why not?

Because part of their flavor is that they exist as a loophole about the religious branch not having men at arms, and are not supposed to be organized like an actual army.

Wait..wait... Sisters of Silence Infiltrators would be awesome, and kind of like scouts.

Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

As Melissa said - no reason not for them exist as they are an army and act as such. The loop hole was just that then but they have had millenia to grow and adapt - similar to the Astartes

Given they are often defending fixed locations - specialist units with Storm and/ or Suppression shields would make sense, also when acting as bodyguards

Special characters from the novels/ campaigns can easily be incorporated.

Sisters Hospitlitar could be more common

we know they have starships so the void craft is a easy inclusion, as are drop pods.

Other orders could be included as well.

Given that the Sisters of Battle are part of the Ecclesiarchy, I don't see the objection to having Cardinals, Missionaries, Priests, Frateris Militia, Redemptionists, Arco-Flagellants, Penitent Engines and Crusaders in there alongside the Sororitas units.

And speaking of units, I don't see why the Repentia can't get given Rhinos. And they should definitely add Repressors, and also some kind of mobile shrine. They could add units of Sisters of Battle who are close combat oriented, with chainswords and bolt pistols and flamers, perhaps.

I don't see the Ecclesiarchy as being 'added into' a Sisters codex, I think that the two are inseperable. After all, the Church Militant is, in fact, the Sisters.

As much as I want plastic Sisters (DoW was my introduction to 40k, and the Sisters were the only thing that prevented Soul Storm from being a complete dumpster fire), I would like to see some non-Imperial releases. Not that I don't love my Space Marines, but it's past time for CSM to get some love, and Tyranids, Orks, and DE could use some TLC, too.

Gen.Steiner wrote:
Given that the Sisters of Battle are part of the Ecclesiarchy, I don't see the objection to having Cardinals, Missionaries, Priests, Frateris Militia, Redemptionists, Arco-Flagellants, Penitent Engines and Crusaders in there alongside the Sororitas units.

And speaking of units, I don't see why the Repentia can't get given Rhinos. And they should definitely add Repressors, and also some kind of mobile shrine. They could add units of Sisters of Battle who are close combat oriented, with chainswords and bolt pistols and flamers, perhaps.

I don't see the Ecclesiarchy as being 'added into' a Sisters codex, I think that the two are inseperable. After all, the Church Militant is, in fact, the Sisters.

Having been a Sisters player from their very start, I can say that it was always a complaint of a lot of Sisters players that they could not have a pure Sisters force. Now we can of course, but I dont see any Sisters players saying they want the battle conclave removed from the Dex. Just that in the current wave of sub dexes being released there isnt any reason that the Sisters need to be mushed together with several other groups of crazies just to warrant a release.

You may have missed it in your Sisters Dex that Repentia can be given rhino's, the Exorcist is "some kind" of mobile shrine, and command squads can be given a good number of melee, special and or heavy weapons. Yes it would be nice if the repressor was in the Dex and not just in a FW book (or online download) but I have NEVER had anyone tell me I couldnt use it.

There are however bigger holes in the Sisters Dex.

I would be fine with giving Sisters an infiltrating troops choice of Sisters with storm shields and power mauls. A Palatine as a second HQ for formations. Cheaper power weapons for Celestians in command squads while giving the same options to those in elite choice Celestian squads. The thought of using Celestian squads of Celestians/Hospitallers/Dialogus and the like in the manner of Necron royal court characters would be fine by me. Even if all they brought was their wargear and each type had their own AoF that they would pass on to the unit they are attached too.

Beyond that, some formations would certainly be nice. And I would flip for a set of Sisters tactical cards. That being said, I am just fine doing without a Dex update since past history suggests it would more than likely not be an improvement. Plastic Sisters mean nothing to me. I just want my Immolator kit back.

 adamsouza wrote:
Because part of their flavor is that they exist as a loophole about the religious branch not having men at arms

That explicitly confirmed by official background material.

 adamsouza wrote:
and are not supposed to be organized like an actual army.

That is explicitly contradicted by official background material.

 adamsouza wrote:
Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

So I guess Salamanders can't have snipers. Also Black Templars can't have snipers because chainsword make for terrible snipers and white scars can't have snipers because you can't shoot a bike. Or maybe Sisters can just use sniper rifles to snipe their enemies. Just like they can use plasma pistols and eviscerators and all that.

It's especially bad comparing Sisters to say, Eldar, whose codex you can't even open because of all the fanboy goo gluing the pages together. This has happened two editions in a row, even.

Oh my... seriously. The idea that women should be equally represented and treated like part of the fan-base is frankly a repulsive and degenerate idea.

Sisters of Battle being produced as a main force? That's the last thing we want to encourage. Men don't want to play with plastic soldiers in the female form, it's unnatural.

(For the record, this is sarcasm)


It's about time Sisters got some actual loving from the GW sculpters and codex writers.

 dracpanzer wrote:
You may have missed it in your Sisters Dex that Repentia can be given rhino's, the Exorcist is "some kind" of mobile shrine, and command squads can be given a good number of melee, special and or heavy weapons. Yes it would be nice if the repressor was in the Dex and not just in a FW book (or online download) but I have NEVER had anyone tell me I couldnt use it.

Yeah, I have missed that; the last time I looked at the dreck that is the current e-codex was almost a year ago. I still play 4th Edition mostly, so my Sisters of Battle use Codex: Witchhunters. And I'm pretty sure Repentia can't get Rhinos in that one... doubting myself now. Just assumed that would still be the same.

All that said, of course, I'm going to give my Repentia a Rhino anyway, as soon as I can get hold of another Mk 1 Immolator kit to use.

Any Codex: Adepta Sororitas should most definitely include a good showing of Ecclesiarchal units, since the Ecclesiarchy is the organisation that the Battle Sisters belong to. Ministorum Priests, Uriah Jacobus, Battle Conclaves and Penitent Engines are already in the codex so they shouldn't go anywhere. I also think the codex could be used to represent forces that work closely with the Sororitas - that's already represented by the Avenger Strike Fighter (which is not something the Sisters use, rather Imperial Navy support that's often requested by the Sisters).

So to flesh out a codex I think you could add the following:
An Ecclesiarchy HQ choice, would be support focused and possibly filling a similar role to a Chaplain or Techmarine.

A 2nd generic Battle Sister HQ choice, to represent a lesser hero. Buff up the Cannoness to make her the stand apart.

Better Elite choices. Something that makes Celestians and Command Squads nasty in melee, befitting highly trained and experienced elite humans with utter conviction in their faith. Even if its simply buffing Celestians to I4 and giving them access to cheap power weapons like Vanguard Veterans. Also make Penitent Engines and Repentia worth something...

A cheap disposable troop choice. I think a rabble of fanatics would be an awesome choice, to represent the local populace that have been whipped into a frenzy by an Ecclesiarchy Confessor. Like that Flagellent kit for the Empire in Warhammer Fantasy.

Imperial Navy Support. Avenger Strike Fighter obviously, but possibly even things like Aquila Landers or Arvus Lighters. If it needs to be plastic, then <insert new Imperial Flyer here>. Possibly even use the Corvus Blackstar, which leads to the next point...

Ordo Hereticus support. I know the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexes have played down the role of the Inquisition, but I can't help but wonder if that's because GW has some weird idea about not wanting to dilute the image of Space Marines. The Battle Conclave could be folded in here (since its just a more restricted Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband anyway) and the option to take an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor as a HQ choice.

Giving Celestians back their WS4 / I4 and their always hit on a 4+ regardless of opposing WS would be a good step forward for them. Giving them power weapons or Sarissa attachments that actually did something of value would be another.

Celestians are already WS4; its the only thing that makes them semi-useful atm (well that and they have 2 attacks)

 Melissia wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Would they get new Sisters units? Maybe not.

Then what's the fething point?

If we aren't going to get jack fething diddly gak when ti comes to new stuff, what is the point? You realize that the last two codices we got jack fething diddly gak all, right? Getting nothing new is the current status quo, and we HATE the current status quo.

Hey guess what? Your new codex is coming out! But don't worry, we're not going to actually add anything NEW in it. Just the same old boring rehashed crap we've given you for the past twelve years. WHY AREN'T YOU EXCITED YET I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!?!?!? FINE I GUESS WE'LL INSTEAD JUST REMOVE UNITS FROM IT MAYBE THAT WILL EXCITE YOU!!!111ONe

You're telling me to settle for less even as other armies get metric fethtons of new stuff, and expecting me to be overjoyed at the idea, and yet you wonder why I reject it so completely and utterly?

(Yes, I am aware that I am using hyperbole, you don't have to tell me)

Slight correction.

Sisters of Battle did not in fact get nothing new. They got considerably less than that, because models which were being produced have been taken out of production to the point where it is impossible to get a Sister Superior with a pistol or even a Seraphim Superior that is distinguishable from an ordinary squad member. Saying that the Sisters of Battle have gotten "less than nothing" in terms of new models for the past 13 years would not be hyperbole, it would be literal.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Ordo Hereticus support. I know the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexes have played down the role of the Inquisition, but I can't help but wonder if that's because GW has some weird idea about not wanting to dilute the image of Space Marines. The Battle Conclave could be folded in here (since its just a more restricted Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband anyway) and the option to take an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor as a HQ choice.

Inquisition are in their own Codex now.

 Pouncey wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Ordo Hereticus support. I know the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexes have played down the role of the Inquisition, but I can't help but wonder if that's because GW has some weird idea about not wanting to dilute the image of Space Marines. The Battle Conclave could be folded in here (since its just a more restricted Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband anyway) and the option to take an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor as a HQ choice.

Inquisition are in their own Codex now.

I know. I'm saying let Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors specifically be taken in Adepta Sororitas detachments, either by copying the rules over (eg how the Militarum Tempestus codex copies unit entries over from the Astra Militarum codex) or by simply saying *refer to Codex: Inquisition in their listings.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Ordo Hereticus support. I know the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexes have played down the role of the Inquisition, but I can't help but wonder if that's because GW has some weird idea about not wanting to dilute the image of Space Marines. The Battle Conclave could be folded in here (since its just a more restricted Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband anyway) and the option to take an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor as a HQ choice.

Inquisition are in their own Codex now.

I know. I'm saying let Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors specifically be taken in Adepta Sororitas detachments, either by copying the rules over (eg how the Militarum Tempestus codex copies unit entries over from the Astra Militarum codex) or by simply saying *refer to Codex: Inquisition in their listings.

...Why?

The Inquisition is a separate organization from the Ecclesiarchy.

Right. But the Adepta Sororitas work closely with the Ordo Hereticus to persecute crimes of Heresy. Whether or not the Chamber Militants fluff still exists or not is up for debate, given the complete lack of mention of them in the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexs, but even then they do still mention the close ties.

Basically there are historical ties in both fluff and splat that link the Ordo Hereticus and Adepta Sororitas together.

 GoonBandito wrote:
Right. But the Adepta Sororitas work closely with the Ordo Hereticus to persecute crimes of Heresy. Whether or not the Chamber Militants fluff still exists or not is up for debate, given the complete lack of mention of them in the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexs, but even then they do still mention the close ties.

Basically there are historical ties in both fluff and splat that link the Ordo Hereticus and Adepta Sororitas together.

It's very easy to include the Ordo Hereticus in a Sororitas army though. Just... take an Inquisitor from an Inquisition detachment.

And the Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights work very closely together too, possibly more-so than the Hereticus and Sororitas. If the Grey Knights Codex doesn't have an option for a Malleus Inquisitor, I don't see why the Sororitas Codex should have one for a Hereticus Inquistior.

I know its easy; that's how I do it at the moment. It would be even easier to take them inside an actual Sororitas Detachment though, especially since they would then gain the rules for being in that Detachment rather than a separate one (deploying in Allied Transports is a big one, since that would be an easy way to give Sisters back the option for Land Raiders). Plus you wouldn't have to buy another codex.

The Grey Knights codex used to have the options for Inquisitors. That's where all the Inquisition stuff used to be. They decided to split it off, which is fine, however the Inquisition eCodex is now in the same situation as the Adepta Sororitas eCodex in that its not at all up to the same standard of the rest of the 7th Edition Codexes. I'd be fine if the Inquisition codex gets updated too, with special rule in there allowing Inquisitors of the respective Ordo to be included in Sororitas, Grey Knight or Deathwatch detachments.

 GoonBandito wrote:
I know its easy; that's how I do it at the moment. It would be even easier to take them inside an actual Sororitas Detachment though, especially since they would then gain the rules for being in that Detachment rather than a separate one (deploying in Allied Transports is a big one, since that would be an easy way to give Sisters back the option for Land Raiders). Plus you wouldn't have to buy another codex.

The Grey Knights codex used to have the options for Inquisitors. That's where all the Inquisition stuff used to be. They decided to split it off, which is fine, however the Inquisition eCodex is now in the same situation as the Adepta Sororitas eCodex in that its not at all up to the same standard of the rest of the 7th Edition Codexes. I'd be fine if the Inquisition codex gets updated too, with special rule in there allowing Inquisitors of the respective Ordo to be included in Sororitas, Grey Knight or Deathwatch detachments.

The Witch Hunters Codex used to have options for Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors, and one of the Troops choices was Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. You could even take an Orbital Strike as a Heavy Support choice.

And since Grey Knights don't have options for Inquisition stuff anymore... I don't think the Sisters of Battle need them either.

Draxx the Destroyer wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

So I guess Salamanders can't have snipers. Also Black Templars can't have snipers because chainsword make for terrible snipers and white scars can't have snipers because you can't shoot a bike. Or maybe Sisters can just use sniper rifles to snipe their enemies. Just like they can use plasma pistols and eviscerators and all that.

One would assume snipers would use sniper rifles.

What I did there was make a joke, and it evidently went over your head like a poorly aimed sniper shot.

 adamsouza wrote:

Draxx the Destroyer wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

So I guess Salamanders can't have snipers. Also Black Templars can't have snipers because chainsword make for terrible snipers and white scars can't have snipers because you can't shoot a bike. Or maybe Sisters can just use sniper rifles to snipe their enemies. Just like they can use plasma pistols and eviscerators and all that.

Spoiler:

One would assume snipers would use sniper rifles.

What I did there was make a joke, and it evidently went over your head like a poorly aimed sniper shot.

Is it impossible to make a sniper rifle that uses bolter tech?

Because Sisters of Battle aren't just about melta and flamers, they're about bolters too.

 Pouncey wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

Draxx the Destroyer wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Also, flamers and meltas make for terrible snipers.

So I guess Salamanders can't have snipers. Also Black Templars can't have snipers because chainsword make for terrible snipers and white scars can't have snipers because you can't shoot a bike. Or maybe Sisters can just use sniper rifles to snipe their enemies. Just like they can use plasma pistols and eviscerators and all that.

Spoiler:

One would assume snipers would use sniper rifles.

What I did there was make a joke, and it evidently went over your head like a poorly aimed sniper shot.

Is it impossible to make a sniper rifle that uses bolter tech?

Because Sisters of Battle aren't just about melta and flamers, they're about bolters too.

I'm out.

 adamsouza wrote:
I'm out.

I fail to see any humor in what you said. Not that it was offensive, or rude or anything, just simply that it lacked any sense of humor and was indistinguishable from a statement of fact.

 GoonBandito wrote:
Right. But the Adepta Sororitas work closely with the Ordo Hereticus to persecute crimes of Heresy. Whether or not the Chamber Militants fluff still exists or not is up for debate, given the complete lack of mention of them in the Grey Knight and Deathwatch codexs, but even then they do still mention the close ties.

Basically there are historical ties in both fluff and splat that link the Ordo Hereticus and Adepta Sororitas together.

So you mean like they are Battle Brother on the alliance matrix ?

 adamsouza wrote:
What I did there was make a joke, and it evidently went over your head like a poorly aimed sniper shot.

Poe's law. Trust me I have seen people actually argue that Sisters couldn't grow because of this whole “holy trinity” stuff as if it was an absolute rule rather than a simple general preference by the Sororitas.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
What I did there was make a joke, and it evidently went over your head like a poorly aimed sniper shot.

Poe's law. Trust me I have seen people actually argue that Sisters couldn't grow because of this whole “holy trinity” stuff as if it was an absolute rule rather than a simple general preference by the Sororitas.

Also I'd like to know whether the Exorcist's missile launcher is a bolter, melta, or flamer weapon.

 Pouncey wrote:
Also I'd like to know whether the Exorcist's missile launcher is a bolter, melta, or flamer weapon.

Depends on the warhead I would assume. After all an incendiary rocket would probably be classed as a flamer, in the way that the Russian thermobaric artillery systems are classified as flamethrowers.

In terms of model support, I completely agree with Pouncey; less than nothing is indeed what Sisters of Battle players have received over the last few years. Same goes for Inquisition players of all stripes. Remember the Daemonhosts and the huge range of henchmen? eBay does... but GW just doesn't want to make them any more. And given that they can make a brand new 2nd Edition Screamer Killer for a single customer who had one of enormous emotional value stolen, I don't think "oh but the figures are metal!" is a reasonable excuse. They could happily cast up the Seraphim again, for example.

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Also I'd like to know whether the Exorcist's missile launcher is a bolter, melta, or flamer weapon.

Depends on the warhead I would assume. After all an incendiary rocket would probably be classed as a flamer, in the way that the Russian thermobaric artillery systems are classified as flamethrowers.

They have different warhead types? Wouldn't the difference between them necessitate a different weapon profile depending on which type you're firing? Like the Whirlwind rockets have?

In terms of model support, I completely agree with Pouncey; less than nothing is indeed what Sisters of Battle players have received over the last few years. Same goes for Inquisition players of all stripes. Remember the Daemonhosts and the huge range of henchmen? eBay does... but GW just doesn't want to make them any more. And given that they can make a brand new 2nd Edition Screamer Killer for a single customer who had one of enormous emotional value stolen, I don't think "oh but the figures are metal!" is a reasonable excuse. They could happily cast up the Seraphim again, for example.

It's pretty sad when the concept of getting less than nothing for over a decade is a literal statement which is factually true...

 Pouncey wrote:

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Also I'd like to know whether the Exorcist's missile launcher is a bolter, melta, or flamer weapon.

Depends on the warhead I would assume. After all an incendiary rocket would probably be classed as a flamer, in the way that the Russian thermobaric artillery systems are classified as flamethrowers.

They have different warhead types? Wouldn't the difference between them necessitate a different weapon profile depending on which type you're firing? Like the Whirlwind rockets have?

No, there's no rules for different warheads, it was just a mild jest. :p

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Also I'd like to know whether the Exorcist's missile launcher is a bolter, melta, or flamer weapon.

Depends on the warhead I would assume. After all an incendiary rocket would probably be classed as a flamer, in the way that the Russian thermobaric artillery systems are classified as flamethrowers.

They have different warhead types? Wouldn't the difference between them necessitate a different weapon profile depending on which type you're firing? Like the Whirlwind rockets have?

No, there's no rules for different warheads, it was just a mild jest. :p

I've actually wondered on many occasions why there aren't different profiles for different ammo types. Specifically why there isn't an incendiary version that fires d6 flamer or heavy flamer small blasts.

A flamer warhead would be more like: Heavy D6 Ordnance Blast S5 AP5.

A melta warhead is rather like the current Exorcist rocket (S8 AP2) but, obviously, I would imagine it having the Melta rule!

 Pouncey wrote:

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Also I'd like to know whether the Exorcist's missile launcher is a bolter, melta, or flamer weapon.

Depends on the warhead I would assume. After all an incendiary rocket would probably be classed as a flamer, in the way that the Russian thermobaric artillery systems are classified as flamethrowers.

They have different warhead types? Wouldn't the difference between them necessitate a different weapon profile depending on which type you're firing? Like the Whirlwind rockets have?

No, there's no rules for different warheads, it was just a mild jest. :p

I've actually wondered on many occasions why there aren't different profiles for different ammo types. Specifically why there isn't an incendiary version that fires d6 flamer or heavy flamer small blasts.

Because that would require GW to make something new and interesting.

And GW will not do that when it can instead give the new and interesting stuff to Marines, instead.

Gen.Steiner wrote:
A flamer warhead would be more like: Heavy D6 Ordnance Blast S5 AP5.

Uhh... D6 5" templates? That's way more than a little OP don't you think?

Also since it's flamer, it should have the Ignores Cover special rule like the Whirlwind's incendiary rockets do. Or literally every flamer weapon in the game.

A melta warhead is rather like the current Exorcist rocket (S8 AP2) but, obviously, I would imagine it having the Melta rule!

Isn't the current rocket AP1? Did that change at some point?

 Melissia wrote:
Because that would require GW to make something new and interesting.

And GW will not do that when it can instead give the new and interesting stuff to Marines, instead.

Well, they wouldn't need to make anything, the Exorcist already exists. It'd be a few lines of rules text.

Exorcist Multiple-Launch Rocket System

Exorcists come equipped with krak rockets, but they are frequently fielded with different warheads depending on the enemy the Sisters face.

An Exorcist can be equipped with Incendiary Rockets for X points, Melta Rockets for Y points.

Incendiary: 48" S5 AP5 Heavy 1 Ordnance Blast, Ignores Cover
Melta: 48" S8 AP1 Heavy d6 Melta
Krak: 48" S8 AP3 Heavy d6

EDIT: Edited because Pouncey remembers the rules better than me!

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Because that would require GW to make something new and interesting.

And GW will not do that when it can instead give the new and interesting stuff to Marines, instead.

Well, they wouldn't need to make anything, the Exorcist already exists. It'd be a few lines of rules text.

Exorcist Multiple-Launch Rocket System

Exorcists come equipped with krak rockets, but they are frequently fielded with different warheads depending on the enemy the Sisters face.

An Exorcist can be equipped with Incendiary Rockets for X points, Melta Rockets for Y points.

Incendiary: 48" S5 AP5 Heavy 1 Ordnance Blast, Ignores Cover
Melta: 48" S8 AP1 Heavy d6 Melta
Krak: 48" S8 AP3 Heavy d6

EDIT: Edited because Pouncey remembers the rules better than me!

Given how often I have to look things up in the rulebook during games, I'm surprised I remembered something accurately too.

I think that's more-so a matter of the rules being written conversationally though. I have a hard time remembering the exact words that were said. Simple numbers that tend not to change though... I'm pretty good about those. I could probably tell you the stat lines of most models and weapons in the Sororitas Codex without having to look it up first and get almost everything right, but if I had to describe how Challenges work I'd almost certainly get tons of stuff wrong.

I think that d6 3" blasts would be more fun for the Incendiary thing though. It'd be more unique than essentially copying the Whirlwind, and firing multiple rockets is kinda what the Exorcist DOES.

Also, if you had Melta Rockets, why would you ever fire Krak Rockets? Melta rockets are a direct upgrade with no downsides.

 Pouncey wrote:
I think that d6 3" blasts would be more fun for the Incendiary thing though. It'd be more unique than essentially copying the Whirlwind, and firing multiple rockets is kinda what the Exorcist DOES.

Also, if you had Melta Rockets, why would you ever fire Krak Rockets? Melta rockets are a direct upgrade with no downsides.

Heavy d3 Blast maybe?

As for the Melta Rockets, well, the points cost. Maybe the standard Krak could have a longer range, too - 72" perhaps?

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I think that d6 3" blasts would be more fun for the Incendiary thing though. It'd be more unique than essentially copying the Whirlwind, and firing multiple rockets is kinda what the Exorcist DOES.

Also, if you had Melta Rockets, why would you ever fire Krak Rockets? Melta rockets are a direct upgrade with no downsides.

Heavy d3 Blast maybe?

As for the Melta Rockets, well, the points cost. Maybe the standard Krak could have a longer range, too - 72" perhaps?

d3 blast would be fine.

Given that you're going to be taking an Exorcist primarily for its anti-tank capabilities, if you're taking one, you are going to be taking melta rockets.

Going from 48" range to 72" inch range is not such a huge upgrade given that 48" is sufficient to cover most of a standard table anyways. Plus you'd still only use them on anything where your melta rockets are out of range. There should be a situation where you have the option to use Krak Rockets even though Melta Rockets is an option and you choose to do so. Maybe if you alter the number of shots to give you an average of more dice than the melta rockets, since I'd envision Krak Rockets to be something you'd use to kill power armored infantry and save the melta rockets for vehicles.

Edit: Also, since the "melta" rule involves a buff to half-range attacks, maybe Armorbane would be better since the rockets are causing the melta effect, not the launcher itself.

Is Armourbane the 2d6+S armour penetration rule? If so, then yes, that.

Oh, no, I was thinking you bought a particular warhead and had to use just that warhead type for the duration of the game. So it comes standard with the krak rockets, or you can upgrade to the melta rockets, or the incendiary ones.