I feel like Warhammer 40k is the one fictional universe that doesn't have alot of female fans.

I don't think thats because its geared towards men either, i mean it undoubtedly was in the 80s, its probably the most "masculine" science fiction universe out there

but even "masculine" settings like Gears of War has alot of female fans, do you know any girls that are die hard 40k fans?

Like video games, there's probably a lot more than you think. They likely don't advertise their gender due to the hordes of mouthbreathing nerds who are infatuated with the idea of the mythical gamer girl.

I've only met a few female gamers over the years. In my observation girls are more likely to be interested in the hobby side rather than the gaming side compared to guys.

There's one at my FLGS. She does hobby more than play, but she does get some games in occasionally.

There's another girl who showed up once, but, well... Showed up once.

And there's the girlfriend of one of the regular players, who does painting, but no playing.

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot before, but for me, I think there's only one who plays and paints regularly in the shop. It's mostly lads playing

First response got the thread.

 MarsNZ wrote:
Like video games, there's probably a lot more than you think. They likely don't advertise their gender due to the hordes of mouthbreathing nerds who are infatuated with the idea of the mythical gamer girl.

Unlike a video game it's somewhat harder to hide your gender when you're playing face to face with someone

Yes there are girls.

I don't know any that play at the "local" stores (which are all now 2 hours drive away from me), but I have known a handful of female 40k players over the years. Two played Tyranid (4th/5th ed), two played Dark Eldar (5th Ed) and one played a custom chapter of Vanilla Space Marines over the span of three or four editions.

Of all of them, however, I don't know any that spent more time than was strictly necessary in the local stores to buy things, instead choosing to play at home (theirs or a friend's) rather than pick-up games. The culture in a lot of stores can be pretty toxic.

Last time I was in the FLGS on a Saturday, I went to check out a massive Apocalypse game that featured a professionally painted FW Warlord. The rest of the place (and it ain't small) was literally full of older women playing some damn card game (and, for the record, I ain't young). So many they had to set up a table outside. Most women I've ever seen in a game store, and not one under 60. Good for them.

LightKing wrote:
I feel like Warhammer 40k is the one fictional universe that doesn't have alot of female fans.

I don't think thats because its geared towards men either, i mean it undoubtedly was in the 80s, its probably the most "masculine" science fiction universe out there

but even "masculine" settings like Gears of War has alot of female fans, do you know any girls that are die hard 40k fans?

Well we have an ork player who is a girl. She's building up her Waaaaagh, which is quite cool.

We also have TWO players whose wifes plays but both generally only plays against their husbands. I have played one of them though several times and she attended our Elvensword Ambassadorial GT two years ago.

There were three that played at the last Guardian Cup. One is actually a guy who thinks he's a girl or maybe had the surgery or whatever so i dont know if he/she counts? He/She does well though as Dark Eldar. One has a unicorn converted Space Wolf list, and I fought her. The last one played Chaos Daemons i believe.

So I dont know if its just here where I play but girls are playing.

LightKing wrote:

but even "masculine" settings like Gears of War has alot of female fans, do you know any girls that are die hard 40k fans?

It isn't just the setting as much as it is the factor that you dont want to be the one girl in a room filled with slightly awkward guys. In a same way that it is hard to get girls into a all guy bar.

None at all.
We have one female person in our facebook group, but up to some general comments she never shows up.

 oldzoggy wrote:

LightKing wrote:

but even "masculine" settings like Gears of War has alot of female fans, do you know any girls that are die hard 40k fans?

It isn't just the setting as much as it is the factor that you dont want to be the one girl in a room filled with slightly awkward guys. In a same way that it is hard to get girls into a all guy bar.

I think it's this, pretty much. I love tabletop 40k but even I view going to gaming clubs as a necessary evil, and if I can't get one of my friends to go with me I generally don't bother. There are a few good apples at these places, to be sure, but beyond that it's a pretty awkward crowd to be in.

If you lurk on the interwebs you'll find plenty of female fans of the setting though. Lots of the artists who contribute stuff to /tg/ are female.

FWIW, my girlfriend and I have never played 40k before but are in the process of picking up the hobby. So, +1 in the girl column.

We don't know what we'll be playing yet - still reading the lore. But, I'm leaning heavily in favor of space marines, and she's leaning heavily towards being a god of chaos and controlling demons. Which I find both hilarious and very interesting.

None here. They generally like board games more.

My wife plays Blood Bowl and is a figure painter.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
My wife plays Blood Bowl and is a figure painter.

The first two game shops it was actually pretty even in terms of girls and boys at the shop.

And they're not the generic "hollywood geek girl" types either. They came from all walks of life.

Even among my circle of friends a lot of girls show more interest towards 40k than guys do.

I do not know of any locally beyond one of the staff at the local GW and myself.

It has not bothered me too much though. I have been blessed with mostly players who look at me as another player instead of a potential conquest, and as an equal. This was definitely not the case everywhere else (Call of Duty was fun but its community was a nightmare. Last time I used voice chat.)

I do not like drawing too much attention to it; in fact, it annoys me a bit when others make a big deal out of it for attention.

 Psienesis wrote:

Of all of them, however, I don't know any that spent more time than was strictly necessary in the local stores to buy things, instead choosing to play at home (theirs or a friend's) rather than pick-up games. The culture in a lot of stores can be pretty toxic.

Yeah, this. this is me.

With one notable exception, every female I've ever seen at a FLGS plays CCG or RPG. More LARP than anything else, oddly enough.

Saw one 40K woman once, had what may be the second most horrific paint scheme I've ever seen on Space Marines.

I see quite a few womenfolk in game stores, but almost none playing 40K. The few I do are normally being shepherded by their boyfriends...and I get the feeling they're not interested in the game, but are spending time with their guy.

40K is a hard sell to most women. Historically women don't go gaga for armed conflict. Space operas? Sure. Movie-based stuff? Sure. Vampires? Apparently hell yes. Catching animated animals and imprisoning them in Kinder Eggs? Yep.

There's not much backstory behind 40K, beyond the "there is only war" etc. It's not an adventure game, or a science game, etc. It's just a wargame. I would imagine the ones attracted to the game would be on the hobby side.

I know one female in my 20+ years of gaming who genuinely likes wargames. Loads of others who'll gladly play boardgames, etc. though.

One at my store who plays Space Wolves.

...

Are her Space Wolves half royal purple and half Bengal Tiger stripe with golden helmets?

none at all

I personally know two women who play, and my wife is also voicing interest in the game as well recently, at least for Kill Team anyway.

The vast majority I've met and play against are male around here but there is a smattering of female players about.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Elbows wrote:
I see quite a few womenfolk in game stores, but almost none playing 40K. The few I do are normally being shepherded by their boyfriends...and I get the feeling they're not interested in the game, but are spending time with their guy.

40K is a hard sell to most women. Historically women don't go gaga for armed conflict. Space operas? Sure. Movie-based stuff? Sure. Vampires? Apparently hell yes. Catching animated animals and imprisoning them in Kinder Eggs? Yep.

There's not much backstory behind 40K, beyond the "there is only war" etc. It's not an adventure game, or a science game, etc. It's just a wargame. I would imagine the ones attracted to the game would be on the hobby side.

I know one female in my 20+ years of gaming who genuinely likes wargames. Loads of others who'll gladly play boardgames, etc. though.

It's not that women don't have an interest. it's that they are judged negatively when they do.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

It's not that women don't have an interest. it's that they are judged negatively when they do.

That's a misconception.

 Crimson Devil wrote:



It's not that women don't have an interest. it's that they are judged negatively when they do.

So are men, to be fair

Of all the "nerdy" hobbies, tabletop wargaming is, in my experience, the one with less females compared to Videogames or RPGs, but they are there.

 MarsNZ wrote:
Like video games, there's probably a lot more than you think. They likely don't advertise their gender due to the hordes of mouthbreathing nerds who are infatuated with the idea of the mythical gamer girl.

Yeah, it's this.

As far as I know, we have 2 bug players, 1 ork player, 1 chaos space marine, and 1 sister of battle player in our local group that are female.

My wife is a fine example of an "evolving player"- she started with mobile and boardgames, then switched to card games and even when she started enjoying "closed" miniature based boardgames like Zombicide, she strongly opposed "open" wargaming, as being "too involving": the hobby side and "entry level time investment" of WH40K held her back (not a "masculine setting" or any other "non gender inclusive" nonsense, nor in fluff, nor within community - she had the exact same objections against investing in Wolsung skirmish game and she generally likes dystopian/dark future settings with endless conflicts). But eventually she tried a couple of introductory games with my old minis and now she deeply enjoy her (literally) hundreds of bugs.

But even now she despises going to gaming clubs/stores and playing with strangers, because it usually contradicts with "having fun". And this is not a solely 40K thing - even more complex board/card games, that allow for different playstyles/mindsets are best played with likeminded people to be enjoyable. With wrong crowd even cooperative games end up with arguing and competing over "who has better solution". With board games this usually mean just a single bad evening from time to time, over a game that you are largely indifferent to. But 40K seem to draw so many self-righteous folks that are so heavily focused on their own faction superiority, that "mutual fun" is often an exotic concept on 40K evenings at our FLGS and "in game racism" is a common thing. So she actively avoid clubs, even though she rarely plays anything other than 40K now.

Have we ever had a poll on Dakka asking what gender players are? Maybe what gender they are and also whether they paint only, paint and game, or neither paint nor game.

We have a girl in my group, she's married to another player and wins all the tournaments I don't. She's really good.

I played one at the Seattle GT and she beat me. She was very good. baited me perfectly with a stinking Librarian which kind of created a cascade of other things too long to mention but I remember her quite a qhile baqck and she manages a GW store if i remember correctly. She was also at the BAO one year if I recall and won it or got real close... Wish I could remember names.

Had a relative (female) express interest in starting up a Daemon army, but nothing ever came of it. Haven't run across any more who'd express interest in the game at all. In fact, I don't know if others feel generally the same, but my wife detests the "grim" nature of the 40K universe.

Got two female bloodbowl players at the local FLGS - one played halflings (switched to Chaos with the next gaming season), the other plays undead.

I've had female RPGer's in my personal group since the 90's (BEFORE I was married), and for a while had an all-female (3-5 players) crew for my D&D games and a Vampire game I ran.

Havent seen any girls going solo in this hobby execpt my ex girlfreind, she is still having a blast playing 40k.

I'm going to try and introduce my wife to this hobby through blood bowl this christmas, wish me luck.

I've seen women playing 40k and Sigmar a few times, but its predominately guys.

text removed.
Reds8n

Got three in my gaming group, but they don't play that often.

Mostly painting and collecting.

Probably about 1/3 of the people I know who play, are female.

If you have nothing worthwhile to contribute then do not post

My local GW store is run by a woman. I assume she plays and paints, but I don't go in often to know more.

I can't get my wife even vaguely interested in 40k, boardgames etc. not even Monopoly! :(

 timetowaste85 wrote:
One at my store who plays Space Wolves.

Ditto. Seen the one at my store twice in a year, though our game store isn't toxic as far as 40k is concerned.

+1 to the camp of all our FLGS's have seen female players but those female players only spend as little time as necessary in the stores. There are some awful angry reviews and instances of people getting harassed pretty badly...

But I would attribute a lot of that to the recent change in our GW's management.

Begin Story Rant End Story Rant

There is one that currently plays at my old FLGS. Ex-wife(space wolves) with her new husband(Eldar) that she cheated with while I was in Iraq.
Soooo yeah, my old FLGS I had played at for years, Is now on my ban list when she started playing there, I do not go there at all anymore. even to buy things. I have a new and better FLGS that I play at and buy from now.

I recall several from around here. Granted, there's five or six places in the DFW metroplex that I know of and have gone to, so it's pretty busy here. Kinda sad that I never really got to know any of them, honestly, but I also haven't really wargamed in a long time because of lack of Sisters support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Have we ever had a poll on Dakka asking what gender players are? Maybe what gender they are and also whether they paint only, paint and game, or neither paint nor game.

Far too often.

 conker249 wrote:
Ex-wife(space wolves) with her new husband(Eldar) that she cheated with while I was in Iraq.

Oof.

Well, she did play Space Wolves, so not a huge loss.

Well, I just moved across country so I'm still finding my local gaming scene, but I play 30k (Alpha Legion) and while my gf doesn't play GW games she's been an avid Hordes player since it came out. She's very much a painter, but she plays the game pretty well too.

 amazingturtles wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Of all of them, however, I don't know any that spent more time than was strictly necessary in the local stores to buy things, instead choosing to play at home (theirs or a friend's) rather than pick-up games. The culture in a lot of stores can be pretty toxic.

Yeah, this. this is me.

Also me. I get in get my plastic crack and then run back to my basement as fast as my legs can carry me. I only play at home against my SO and a select group of people I know socialy.

 Jancoran wrote:
I played one at the Seattle GT and she beat me. She was very good. baited me perfectly with a stinking Librarian which kind of created a cascade of other things too long to mention but I remember her quite a qhile baqck and she manages a GW store if i remember correctly. She was also at the BAO one year if I recall and won it or got real close... Wish I could remember names.

If it is who I am thinking of, that's Sarah and, yes, she's crazy-good.

More common with warmachine and AoS. Even more with Malifaux on the west coast.

What are these girl thingses you are talking about?

But seriously. There are quite a few here. They had to do a girls night once a month here.

Well, there's this one woman at the local GW who's there pretty much every time I show up. I'm pretty sure she runs the store though, since she's the person I let scan my purchases into the computer at the cash register. Also since it's a one-person store now she may also be the owner. Not sure.

Although I'm certain that the male crowd vastly outnumber the female crowd in 40k, I still think there're a lot of girls in the hobby but they simply chose never to enter a FLGS due to the fact that many reacts like this...



My fiancé still talks about how unpleasant an experience it was for her to enter the FLGS to buy me a present as everyone seemed to stop up and stare frightened at her as she was some bizarre alien or something (my fiancé tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant so take this with a grain of salt )

"Squad morale broken!"
Brilliant.
They should have another one saying "Unidentified xenos species detected".

 Zewrath wrote:
Although I'm certain that the male crowd vastly outnumber the female crowd in 40k, I still think there're a lot of girls in the hobby but they simply chose never to enter a FLGS due to the fact that many reacts like this...



My fiancé still talks about how unpleasant an experience it was for her to enter the FLGS to buy me a present as everyone seemed to stop up and stare frightened at her as she was some bizarre alien or something (my fiancé tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant so take this with a grain of salt )

No, I don't think your fiancee is being overly dramatic at all for describing the reaction she got that way. Also you should add the second e to fiancee, it's kinda important there.

Ever have a room full of 30-40 men currently engaged in gaming, at the moment you enter the room and are the only woman present, stop everything they are doing and just stare at you, in unison, for a good 5 seconds?

I haven't, but that's probably because I'm a guy so I've been on the other end of that. And I have enough self-awareness to realize how I'm acting probably appears most of the time.

 Pouncey wrote:

No, I don't think your fiancee is being overly dramatic at all for describing the reaction she got that way. Also you should add the second e to fiancee, it's kinda important there.

Ever have a room full of 30-40 men currently engaged in gaming, at the moment you enter the room and are the only woman present, stop everything they are doing and just stare at you, in unison, for a good 5 seconds?

I haven't, but that's probably because I'm a guy so I've been on the other end of that. And I have enough self-awareness to realize how I'm acting probably appears most of the time.

Oh, never realised that there was a difference until I googled it. Sorry, English is not my native language but hey, at least I learned something new!

 oldzoggy wrote:
Yes there are girls.

Citation needed

 Zewrath wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

No, I don't think your fiancee is being overly dramatic at all for describing the reaction she got that way. Also you should add the second e to fiancee, it's kinda important there.

Ever have a room full of 30-40 men currently engaged in gaming, at the moment you enter the room and are the only woman present, stop everything they are doing and just stare at you, in unison, for a good 5 seconds?

I haven't, but that's probably because I'm a guy so I've been on the other end of that. And I have enough self-awareness to realize how I'm acting probably appears most of the time.

Oh, never realised that there was a difference until I googled it. Sorry, English is not my native language but hey, at least I learned something new!

It's fine.

In most English words, adding an extra vowel doesn't change the meaning like that.

However, in English, accents aren't generally a thing at all. Fiancee has one on the first e. Even in English, fiancee has an accent.

That's the kind of thing you're gonna be in for as you learn English.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IGtR= wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Yes there are girls.

Citation needed

Uhh, well, there's a woman who runs my local GW. I'm pretty sure she's been doing it because she likes wargaming since she's been working for the local GW for quite a long time.

And my mom likes tabletop strategy gaming enough that the strategy gaming club at their college is where my parents first met. She likes WH40k enough that most of my WH40k games ever have been against my mom. And she's good enough at it that she can quite easily table me with 7e Orks being her army with 0 Allies of any sort.

So that's two. Two grown women I have met IRL who are clearly into wargaming. Is that a good enough citation to prove "Yes there are girls" if you take "girls" to be a wide enough term to include women?

Actually it's been a long time since I won a game against my mom. I think the last one I won, the difference between winning and being tabled was that my last model on the board was a Scout who somehow found himself in the perfect spot behind 2+ cover save terrain from the entire Ork army , while also just barely being in range of the objective worth 4 points that gave me a total score at the end of the game 1 higher than my mom got, the bare minimum needed to win the game. Also that Scout weathered an impressive amount of incoming fire from Lootas. That was back in 5th edition, I think. Maybe the start of 6th.

 Zewrath wrote:
Oh, never realised that there was a difference until I googled it. Sorry, English is not my native language but hey, at least I learned something new!

It's because fiancé and fiancée are actually French words following the normal French rules, English burrowed them .

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Oh, never realised that there was a difference until I googled it. Sorry, English is not my native language but hey, at least I learned something new!

It's because fiancé and fiancée are actually French words following the normal French rules, English burrowed them .

Yeah, I know. I did live in Quebec for over 20 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, uh, to explain why so few women play 40k, let me ask you something.

Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/708821.page#9038618

Yes. Yes that does happen. Here's a guy talking about it happening from the previous page in this thread.

My wife enjoys painting my models, so she's had to go to a local store to pick up paints on occasion. She's had the same experience in almost every store, where she is usually unison stared at by whatever games are ongoing for a few awkward seconds, then awkwardly asked by the manager/clerk if she's lost and/or needs help. Now I've been to most of the same stores on my own separately, and I know the manager/clerk doesn't so much as even nod in your general direction if you're a man, let alone get up, walk over to you, and ask if you need anything.

So she ends up running in, grabbing her paints, and running out as quickly as possible.

All that said, one game store I used to frequent back in school was partially managed by a very pleasant woman who participated in and ran many of the stores' events. That store also seemed to have a higher concentration of female gamers (mostly RPG nights though) and was generally less creepy. It was still a basement store location, which didn't help, but it was clean, open, and well ventilated.

At my local GW, the manager is very friendly, always greets people coming in (either with a "What's up, [name]?" if he knows them or "Good afternoon, how can I help you?" for new people) and most people tend not to look when people walk in. A few do, but never everybody.

And the same happens for women when they walk in too. We're generally pretty good about that.

 JNAProductions wrote:
At my local GW, the manager is very friendly, always greets people coming in (either with a "What's up, [name]?" if he knows them or "Good afternoon, how can I help you?" for new people) and most people tend not to look when people walk in. A few do, but never everybody.

And the same happens for women when they walk in too. We're generally pretty good about that.

I'm betting you have a higher proportion of women in your store's regulars than the places where everyone stops and stares does.

That's the exact point here. When you DON'T act like that, women stay and become part of the group.

What is this "girl" thing you speak of?

 master of ordinance wrote:
What is this "girl" thing you speak of?

I'm gonna guess you're not actually saying you grew up without knowing that humans have two sexes and not one.

At my local GW store we have 15-20 regular gamers and modellers in store weekly, of them 4 are female.a
At my local gaming club it's around 50 people and 10 girls, note that a lot of the girls play skirmish game at this venue.
My wife regularly plays both 40k and Relic knights, she prefers Relic knights because it's faster paced and a quicker game. But plays 40k mostly for the narrative play Andy because space clowns are amazing.
I would say that more women are involved in the industry as a lot of the teen ladies have other prioritys and women tend to come in to the industry later in life than the average man.

 Pouncey wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
What is this "girl" thing you speak of?

I'm gonna guess you're not actually saying you grew up without knowing that humans have two sexes and not one.

S-e-x-'s?

We've got one woman who comes in Saturdays, always. Outside that, not really.

 balazra wrote:
I would say that more women are involved in the industry as a lot of the teen ladies have other prioritys and women tend to come in to the industry later in life than the average man.

Um, yeah, a better guess would be that teenage girls don't want to deal with the stereotypical teenage boys common to the stores; or because since many of the teenage girls are percieved as single, the creepiness escalates. How wierd and creepy games stores can be towards women is also played upon often in modern culture, and why would anyone even want to go if that weirdness is always going to be there? It's threatening, and with how women are taught that they are ultimately responsible for what happens to them, why go to a place you know is going to be full of only guys (potentially ill-adjusted too)?

And the "older" ladies are more common often because they usually have someone (e.g. a husband or boyfriend) to go with them, which causes *most* of the creepiness to go away and/or offers some semblance of protection.

Seriously, not all teenage girls are only concerned with make-up and boys.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
What is this "girl" thing you speak of?

I'm gonna guess you're not actually saying you grew up without knowing that humans have two sexes and not one.

S-e-x-'s?

You, um, might want to look into what contractions are for in the English language.

 Pouncey wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/708821.page#9038618

Yes. Yes that does happen. Here's a guy talking about it happening from the previous page in this thread.

There's still perception vs reality.

As I said...

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

I'm sure it might happen somewhere from time to time, but I question how frequent actual "staring" occurs. If anything I'd say it's a rarity when you can walk in to a room without most of the people in that room looking over at you, which I understand can be unpleasant if you're an outsider (and that post you linked even specifically stated she tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant ).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's still perception vs reality.

As I said...

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

I'm sure it might happen somewhere from time to time, but I question how frequent actual "staring" occurs. If anything I'd say it's a rarity when you can walk in to a room without most of the people in that room looking over at you, which I understand can be unpleasant if you're an outsider (and that post you linked even specifically stated she tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant ).

Why do you think perception doesn't matter when it comes to what people decide to do?

Also, no. Guys do NOT get reactions like that. We DON'T.

 Pouncey wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
What is this "girl" thing you speak of?

I'm gonna guess you're not actually saying you grew up without knowing that humans have two sexes and not one.

S-e-x-'s?

You, um, might want to look into what contractions are for in the English language.

Ohh, so a sex is a contradiction!

 master of ordinance wrote:
Ohh, so a sex is a contradiction!

I have a ball. Maybe you'd like to bounce it.

:: hands him a tennis ball ::

:: pat pat on the head ::

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

Yes, it does. "Staring" does not mean looking up when someone walks into a room. It means looking at someone with the direct intent of watching them, rather than just noticing them.

And it happens to women regardless of the clothes we wear.

do we need to cover objectification 101? is that where we are?

 Pouncey wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Ohh, so a sex is a contradiction!

I have a ball. Maybe you'd like to bounce it.

:: hands him a tennis ball ::

:: pat pat on the head ::

WOOF!

 amazingturtles wrote:
Yes, it does. "Staring" does not mean looking up when someone walks into a room. It means looking at someone with the direct intent of watching them, rather than just noticing them.

And it happens to women regardless of the clothes we wear.

do we need to cover objectification 101? is that where we are?

You, uh, probably should explain objectification 101. They appear to need the explanation since they don't see the problem.

I game at 4 different stores. Women game at all of them. Men game at them too.

Yes I know this IS an issue (stop drooling at the back) but it really shouldn't be.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/708821.page#9038618

Yes. Yes that does happen. Here's a guy talking about it happening from the previous page in this thread.

There's still perception vs reality.

As I said...

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

I'm sure it might happen somewhere from time to time, but I question how frequent actual "staring" occurs. If anything I'd say it's a rarity when you can walk in to a room without most of the people in that room looking over at you, which I understand can be unpleasant if you're an outsider (and that post you linked even specifically stated she tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant ).

It happens frequently enough to be an actual meme within gaming communities, whether that's 40k, D&D, or MtG. It's one of those things that so many gamers, regardless of gender, have witnessed that the event can be referenced in a short-hand version and everyone knows exactly what you're talking about. Does it happen in every store and every gaming community? No, of course not... but it happens in enough of them to be considered the "norm".

My last FLGS was a 100% dude-fest.
Not sure why that is relevant though?

I'm not sure it can be blamed squarely on the stares and silence. My FLGS has a fair number of the female kind but only two play 40k and they're both WAGs funded by the significant other. Mostly the ladies in the shop play RPGs and card games like MtG.
I think the expensive plastic 'toys' are the big turn off.

Pouncey wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's still perception vs reality.

As I said...

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

I'm sure it might happen somewhere from time to time, but I question how frequent actual "staring" occurs. If anything I'd say it's a rarity when you can walk in to a room without most of the people in that room looking over at you, which I understand can be unpleasant if you're an outsider (and that post you linked even specifically stated she tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant ).

Why do you think perception doesn't matter when it comes to what people decide to do?

Also, no. Guys do NOT get reactions like that. We DON'T.

I never said perception doesn't matter. But I don't think you can lay blame at people for looking at over at who walked in the room and that person then feeling uncomfortable.

amazingturtles wrote:Yes, it does.

So have you timed how long wargamers from a variety of groups look at people as they walk in and categorised it by gender?

I never said it never happens, I questioned how frequently it happens. I questioned how frequently it happens because it's not something I've observed since I was a kid and the local GW was frequented by a bunch of pubescent boys.

These days the local GW is mostly filled with adults who I don't think care remotely whether you're male, female or wearing a cape with your underwear on the outside.

"Staring" does not mean looking up when someone walks into a room. It means looking at someone with the direct intent of watching them, rather than just noticing them.

I know the difference between staring and looking but thanks for pointing it out.

do we need to cover objectification 101? is that where we are?

I know what objectification is, someone looking at you is not automatically objectification.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's still perception vs reality.

As I said...

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

I'm sure it might happen somewhere from time to time, but I question how frequent actual "staring" occurs. If anything I'd say it's a rarity when you can walk in to a room without most of the people in that room looking over at you, which I understand can be unpleasant if you're an outsider (and that post you linked even specifically stated she tends to be overly dramatic when describing something unpleasant ).

Why do you think perception doesn't matter when it comes to what people decide to do?

Also, no. Guys do NOT get reactions like that. We DON'T.

I never said perception doesn't matter. But I don't think you can lay blame at people for looking at over at who walked in the room and that person then feeling uncomfortable.

amazingturtles wrote:Yes, it does.

So have you timed how long wargamers from a variety of groups look at people as they walk in and categorised it by gender?

I never said it never happens, I questioned how frequently it happens. I questioned how frequently it happens because it's not something I've observed since I was a kid and the local GW was frequented by a bunch of pubescent boys.

These days the local GW is mostly filled with adults who I don't think care remotely whether you're male, female or wearing a cape with your underwear on the outside.

"Staring" does not mean looking up when someone walks into a room. It means looking at someone with the direct intent of watching them, rather than just noticing them.

I know the difference between staring and looking but thanks for pointing it out.

do we need to cover objectification 101? is that where we are?

I know what objectification is, someone looking at you is not automatically objectification.

To be clear, the problem is not that people glance up when someone walks into the room and then go back to what they're doing.

It's that the entire room stops everything. And stares.

 Psienesis wrote:
It happens frequently enough to be an actual meme within gaming communities, whether that's 40k, D&D, or MtG. It's one of those things that so many gamers, regardless of gender, have witnessed that the event can be referenced in a short-hand version and everyone knows exactly what you're talking about. Does it happen in every store and every gaming community? No, of course not... but it happens in enough of them to be considered the "norm".

I think the stereotype mainly is harking back to a time when such groups were filled with socially awkward pubescent boys.

My observation these days is gaming groups tend to be mid 20's to mid 30's folks who don't actually give a damn either way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:
It's that the entire room stops everything. And stares.

And again, I simply question how often that *actually* happens vs how much people joke about it happening or how much people perceive it happening when it's really not.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'm not sure it can be blamed squarely on the stares and silence. My FLGS has a fair number of the female kind but only two play 40k and they're both WAGs funded by the significant other. Mostly the ladies in the shop play RPGs and card games like MtG.
I think the expensive plastic 'toys' are the big turn off.

Your personal group is not the same as EVERY group.

Your group has a lot of women in it because they DON'T do reactions like this.

The groups that DO stare end up with no women in them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
And again, I simply question how often that *actually* happens vs how much people joke about it happening or how much people perceive it happening when it's really not.

Do you understand that you do not witness every gaming club out there, only the ones YOU are at?

My wife plays orks. Yesterday at my local store, I saw two playing, one Eldar, one Tau, and there's a third that runs Tyranids.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'm not sure it can be blamed squarely on the stares and silence. My FLGS has a fair number of the female kind but only two play 40k and they're both WAGs funded by the significant other. Mostly the ladies in the shop play RPGs and card games like MtG.
I think the expensive plastic 'toys' are the big turn off.

Your personal group is not the same as EVERY group.

Your group has a lot of women in it because they DON'T do reactions like this.

The groups that DO stare end up with no women in them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
And again, I simply question how often that *actually* happens vs how much people joke about it happening or how much people perceive it happening when it's really not.

Do you understand that you do not witness every gaming club out there, only the ones YOU are at?

My FLGS doesn't need to be the same as every other game shop to make up part of the sample. The lack of women in 40k goes deeper than girls being chased out by stares at the door, even if they do become part of the FLGS community they generally don't choose 40k without some serious convincing from a significant other.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I played one at the Seattle GT and she beat me. She was very good. baited me perfectly with a stinking Librarian which kind of created a cascade of other things too long to mention but I remember her quite a qhile baqck and she manages a GW store if i remember correctly. She was also at the BAO one year if I recall and won it or got real close... Wish I could remember names.

If it is who I am thinking of, that's Sarah and, yes, she's crazy-good.

Yup,. She took me behind the shack and beat me like a red headed step child. Thought I had her for sure...and..I...didn't. Lol.

I've only ever been into a few stores to shop, never played before, but from what I've seen the stores are usually all male.I understand why though, usually male dominated hobby groups can be kinda creepy or hostile towards females

my store is gross imo. the guys eat food from the food court like savages.

there was a GF of a worker who once i was telling a story while using profanity, said "OH gak DIDN'T SEE THE LITTLE KID THERE SORRY"

turns out it was his GF and shes just REALLY SMALL and young looking

thats basically it tho. harsh but most of the men are unattractive and i believe that is also why there are less women but im sure ill get flamed for that

eosgreen wrote:
my store is gross imo. the guys eat food from the food court like savages.

there was a GF of a worker who once i was telling a story while using profanity, said "OH gak DIDN'T SEE THE LITTLE KID THERE SORRY"

turns out it was his GF and shes just REALLY SMALL and young looking

thats basically it tho. harsh but most of the men are unattractive and i believe that is also why there are less women but im sure ill get flamed for that

Actually I'm more of the lynching type but since I've been told with no feelings spared what my group and myself look like to the opposite sex I'm going to have to concede that one.

 amazingturtles wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

Yes, it does. "Staring" does not mean looking up when someone walks into a room. It means looking at someone with the direct intent of watching them, rather than just noticing them.

And it happens to women regardless of the clothes we wear.

do we need to cover objectification 101? is that where we are?

That escalated quickly.


Stepping back for a second, I agree with Skink regarding the perception vs. reality bit. For some of us guys, perhaps an equivalent scenario might be walking into a women's retail shop without the security blanket of our partners. From personal experience when I've ventured alone into stores that cater exclusively to women I feel awkward upon entry, and under scrutiny by the staff and other patrons while I am in there. Whether or not that is actually the case, that I am being scrutinized or otherwise judged by the women in the store, it is something I feel because I am entering an area which I perceive to be off limits to me.

Seems reasonable to expect that a woman, having been told how masculine the hobby is, how toxic gaming shops can be, and all of the other negative stereotypes associated with our hobby, might enter a shop with some preconceptions on how she will be received.

That isn't to say that the gross staring doesn't occur, but rather that some of these "incidents" may simply be a matter of the viewer's perception being influenced by outside factors.

For example, my wife thinks the LGS smells. Sometimes it does, especially in the warmer months or if the play area is packed, but usually it doesn't smell like anything other than the plastic and paper scent of a bookstore. Every time I bring up going into the shop with me, she refuses citing the smell, despite times when she has gone in and it hasn't smelled of BO. To her it will eternally be a smelly place because she perceives it to be a smelly place, not because it is actually always smelly.

My wife did until she was scared off by some fedoras. They would talk about stuff like "how women are only good in movies when they show their boobs" and other awful things along the same lines.

 Vash108 wrote:
My wife did until she was scared off by some fedoras. They would talk about stuff like "how women are only good in movies when they show their boobs" and other awful things along the same lines.

And this children, is why it's hard to find girls playing at stores

 Vash108 wrote:
My wife did until she was scared off by some fedoras. They would talk about stuff like "how women are only good in movies when they show their boobs" and other awful things along the same lines.

I... I thought basic human decency was a fairly universal trait... I am actually finding it hard to believe anyone could be so crude.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
My wife did until she was scared off by some fedoras. They would talk about stuff like "how women are only good in movies when they show their boobs" and other awful things along the same lines.

I... I thought basic human decency was a fairly universal trait... I am actually finding it hard to believe anyone could be so crude.

Their language was much harsher than my quote. They would also talk about wanting to "breed" some of the women that come in the store or if a woman walked in they would always say something stupid like "They must have missed the nail salon next door".

Fortunately they were eventually asked to leave and not come back. But damage has been done.

I've seen similar comments here on this forum so I'm not surprised.

Including people actively arguing that women SHOULD be pushed away from the hobby.

I still recall a thread a few years back where a guy atarted the thread to make the argument of "Idon't want to see women in gw because my wife makes me miserable and I use gw to get away from women like her", for example.

 amazingturtles wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Let's say you're at a gaming club, playing Warhammer 40k, everything's going on normally, and you say or do something suddenly and the entire club of 30-40 people just stop, shut up, and stare at you. What would you have to do to make that happen? Something fairly wrong and incorrect, I'm sure.

Women get that reaction just by walking in the door. Which is why they then turn around and walk out.

How do you get more women to play at your club? Don't stare at them and just act like it's normal for them to be there, like you do when some guy walks in.

Does the "staring" thing really happen that frequently? The idea that someone walks in and everyone stares sounds more like a movie than a reality.

I mean, when someone, anyone, walks in to the local store here everyone turns around and looks... because the door makes a noise and the store manager will yell out from across the room "G'day! How's it going?". People instinctively turn around to see if it's someone they know.... and then turn back to playing their game or painting their models.

I can understand how someone might *feel* like they're being singled out if they don't match the demographic of the room, but I think it's just natural behaviour to look at the person who just walked in regardless of whether they're man, woman or child, I don't think it'd be an actual "stare" unless they've done something to draw attention to themselves (which maybe some women do unintentionally like wearing a low cut top).

Yes, it does. "Staring" does not mean looking up when someone walks into a room. It means looking at someone with the direct intent of watching them, rather than just noticing them.

And it happens to women regardless of the clothes we wear.

do we need to cover objectification 101? is that where we are?

Yet looking up to see who comes in the room is often what people misconstrue as staring. As people have pointed out turning and noticing is something that happens, I do it all the time when people enter the room, I turn look for a moment and then look away, man or woman.

I dont think anyone was saying it doesn't happen regardless of what you wear, it was just an example of why it might happen in a particular instance.

Also objectification is not something that is just man on woman, women do plenty of objectifying, regardless of what men wear too.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Yet looking up to see who comes in the room is often what people misconstrue as staring.

Which post has done that, then? Who has said that? Who is making that argument?

 Melissia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Yet looking up to see who comes in the room is often what people misconstrue as staring.

Which post has done that, then? Who has said that? Who is making that argument?

Unless you are straight up eyefething the person as the walk in the room and your look up turn more into a look up and your gaze follows them around the room then it shouldn't be a problem.

You didn't answer my question.

I hit the wrong quote button.

My bad. The mobile version of this site s9metimes makes it hard to read names due to them appearing very small sometimes.

 Melissia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Yet looking up to see who comes in the room is often what people misconstrue as staring.

Which post has done that, then? Who has said that? Who is making that argument?

It's a statement of personal experience, not every part of an argument needs to be taken directly from this particular discussion. There is an entire world of experience out there.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
It's a statement of personal experience

So... nobody, then.

The difference is usually something like 30 secs to a min longer. The problem being it feels pretty intimidating.

I do feel a little uneasy whenever I enter a room and everyone looks up at me. It would only make sense that someone who is different in some ways, may feel more anxious than a person that is more typical of that environment.
I think there needs to be an individual effort to conduct oneself in an appropriate manner, but sadly many people think that inappropriate actions are appropriate.

I think that the more women there are in Warhammer, that the more comfortable they will be, but that is in part a catch 22 situation as you need women to join to even make that happen. There are no easy answers , but I think the best way to bring about change is to simply be nice to those around you.

 Melissia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
It's a statement of personal experience

So... nobody, then.

Since when does everything need to be drawn from this thread exactly. Everyone's declarations of what they have seen or experienced should then be treated as hearsay.

Their instances didn't specifically happen in this thread there for it didn't happen.

You're the one asserting that "looking up to see who comes in the room is often what people misconstrue as staring." And you're also pretty much the ONLY one asserting that.

I dispute that it's really all that common for merely looking up to see who comes in the room is interpreted as "staring" or "ogling". I've seen both situations, and the difference is very stark and difficult to mistake.

 Melissia wrote:
You're the one asserting that "looking up to see who comes in the room is often what people misconstrue as staring." And you're also pretty much the ONLY one asserting that.

I dispute that it's really all that common for merely looking up to see who comes in the room is interpreted as "staring" or "ogling". I've seen both situations, and the difference is very stark and difficult to mistake.

I am stating that what I have seen people misconstrue such glances in person. You can dispute it all you want, your experiences are ultimately as irrelevant to me as mine are to you. Don't tell me it's a dispute it's an off hand dismissal based on nothing in this thread matching it and has been presented in a manner that comes very much across as you finding what I have seen as irrelevant. For instance your "So.. nobody then."

I don't recall making an implication that such things had been said here. The thing I did mention other people, in this thread, as mentioning is that people turn to notice when people enter.

To be somewhat less confrontational, perhaps we have a different idea of a glance. For me a glance can be longer than simply looking and registering that a person it's there. It involves actually taking note of them and assessing them. It's coming around my area to glance like that. Maybe it's not for you?

If you're staring at them for ten-twenty seconds to "assess" them, that's way more than a glance.

Where are you getting that time frame from? Cause I sure didn't mention one.

Regardless I agree 10-20 is a long time and not a glance.

3-5 maybe, but I've seen people be uncomfortable from that and mention it to people.

There seems to be a lot of chicken or the egg going on here.

Until I found my current gaming group, I think I've met maybe 3 women who played 40K with any kind of regularity. I'm not the most prolific player, but I've been playing since 3rd ed.

My current group actually has 5 female players of varying degrees of regularity. They're some of my LARP friends, and one of them started a Pathfinder campaign a couple years back I got involved in.

Pre-Pathfinder one day, I was talking to one of the other fellows who had recently gotten into 40K - I was asking him what he played and whatnot and two of the women got interested in what we were talking about right away. So, we staged a demo game, and those two girls got hooked.

I took it upon myself to impose some house rules to prevent some of the excess shenanigans 6th ed allowed, and also so as new players they (and the fellow I had the demo game with) wouldn't have to worry about things like flyers and Lords of War as they were learning the game.

I started bringing my extra stuff to the group for them to use - you know, those minis one winds up with that sit around and never get used - the Assault on Black Reach marines, for instance. I told some of my other gaming friends about it, and those who had played 40K but don't anymore gave me scads of stuff, which I passed on after sorting it out. The first two who were interested now play Harlequins and Blood Angels. The aforementioned GM of our Pathfinder campaign professed to not want to get involved in another hobby, but the Sisters of Battle army I left laying around had other ideas, and now she plays Sisters and Chaos. Another of my Pathfinder friends got hooked on Eldar. The GM's best friend became all about the Space Wolves once she found out they existed.

I provided one of our two tables, and terrain for them, most of which I made. I enjoy making terrain when I can find the time.

So, I've got all these female 40K playing friends, but I don't think a one of them has set foot in a gaming store to play, and they don't really need to.

That's not unusual, imo. It isn't uncommon to have all- or mostly-female roleplaying groups that have little interaction with male oriented gaming spaces, for example.

What's up with that post?

Am I...missing something?

Just some typos, probably on the phone.

You don't have to be female to feel uncomfortable in a game store. IME game stores are generally uncomfortable places if you're not part of the gang, so to speak. The only time in my life I have wanted to be in a LGS longer than it took to make a purchase was when my close friends were running one. And even then it was about 100x better when the place was closed.

The women I know who hang out at the LGS tend to be "core members" of that scene or else the wives/girlfriends of core members.

 Manchu wrote:
Just some typos, probably on the phone.

That was my initial thought to, but since it was reported, I wanted to be sure.

You know kids these days...

 Manchu wrote:
Just some typos, probably on the phone.

You don't have to be female to feel uncomfortable in a game store. IME game stores are generally uncomfortable places if you're not part of the gang, so to speak. The only time in my life I have wanted to be in a LGS longer than it took to make a purchase was when my close friends were running one. And even then it was about 100x better when the place was closed.

The women I know who hang out at the LGS tend to be "core members" of that scene or else the wives/girlfriends of core members.

That is a pretty good point.

Walking in to a tight community of any sort can be a bit daunting at first, especially if people just look at you and don't greet you. That is where good personal skills come in, and you need to just say hi. If you can strike up a conversation with someone, and the community is welcoming, then you know it's good. I made a life long friend from one of these exchanges, we used to play all of the time.

It is a shame that GW hasn't tried to shift the appeal to be more gender neutral over the years.

I have tried too many times to get my wife in to 40k, just won't happen.

My local one-man Warhammer shop is actually a one-woman Warhammer shop. Can't say I notice a great deal more women playing there than at the nearby LGSes - but this is probably the result of the Warhammer shop having practically no room for gaming plus the fact that there are a good amount of women at the LGSes because, I guess, that is an important social scene for those particular ladies. But I did talk to the woman who works at our Warhammer shop and she says she tries to be a role model to women who come in with their husbands and boyfriends and show some interest in the products (which is of course good sales[wo]manship).

It seems to me that women feel more comfortable painting than playing. If I was a member of some taskforce to increase female participation in miniatures gaming, this is the area I would want to investigate closely.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

eosgreen wrote:
my store is gross imo. the guys eat food from the food court like savages.

there was a GF of a worker who once i was telling a story while using profanity, said "OH gak DIDN'T SEE THE LITTLE KID THERE SORRY"

turns out it was his GF and shes just REALLY SMALL and young looking

thats basically it tho. harsh but most of the men are unattractive and i believe that is also why there are less women but im sure ill get flamed for that

Actually I'm more of the lynching type but since I've been told with no feelings spared what my group and myself look like to the opposite sex I'm going to have to concede that one.

Lol. I don't know about that. Gamers doooo tend to be overwight except some of the military guys. But I kind of doubt that women decide whether to play or not on whether I look good or not. I would be surprised if that was really a factor? The social awkwardness that gamers display is of course the bigger issue, nottheir looks. i suppose you could wrap that into attractiveness but its kind of talking about two things there I would say.


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 Melissia wrote:
That's not unusual, imo. It isn't uncommon to have all- or mostly-female roleplaying groups that have little interaction with male oriented gaming spaces, for example.

Our game shop has "girls night out" magic and i have also seen all female D&D groups. It is rare to be frank to see that but I have had a lot of girls in my groups over the years so when it comes to D&D there is clearly a much larger pool than in war gaming.

 Rippy wrote:


I have tried too many times to get my wife in to 40k, just won't happen.

Me too...

One day of these days.

I've seen a few women at my local GW store painting, playing intro games, and buying stuff. They're usually there with somebody else but there are a few women interested in the hobby around here. My girlfriend also paints a little, but the game isn't for her. It's still largely a boys club unfortunately, but there's some diversity in the people who play.

I took my girlfriend to a local gaming shop, because we're getting started together and I was going to buy us some supplies. Everyone was incredibly friendly. They let her watch their games and ask questions. The person operating the store was very nice and answered all her questions, people let us both look at their miniatures, and offered advice, and answered any questions we had.

It was an outstanding experience for both of us. We will be going back.

One guy did hit on her a little bit, but stopped once she informed him that we were together. No harm, no foul. But I could see how it would be difficult to be a girl in a gaming store by yourself, unless you liked the sexual attention. I don't mind if guys hit on her. I told her when we go back and play in tournies she can dress super hot for an advantage. I mean, that's tournament legal, right...?

I swear the hitting on women in the gaming store is because some people see it as possibly their last chance to meet one.

My wife has good looking friends (she seems to like better/different looking friends around her for some reason...).
She decided to "drop in" while I was playing a game at the FLGS and had an entourage.
They were all dressed up for the evening.
It was like dropping a nuke in the store.
All guy brain function stopped and a few of the other gamers were desperately trying to remember my name to "ask" me something.
The girls were evil, actively flirting and doing some "catch and release" and asking about all the stuff.
I can see it being odd and possibly a bit much for a girl on her own but a few of them together is a whole different dynamic.
If you can get a regular gaming group of about 4 girls+ plus, I think there would be no issues... no more than what they are willing to create I mean.

My wife said "the girls" may do that again, they did not usually feel they had their pick of whomever they wanted when they walked into an establishment.
However meager us pasty colored folk may be to pick from.

None of them play 40k but hope springs eternal.
My wife and two of her other friends I got into painting a few models here and there.
I paint their nails in exchange.

No, this is easily the whitest sausage party I've ever been apart of. I think I saw 5 women playing at Adepticon and all were with someone, and I don't blame them. Being an attractive woman amongst 40k players seems like hell on earth.

Lol. Nah.

Many years ago, when 3rd ed Blood Bowl got going, my wife(who was my girlfriend, at the time) would come by on league night.

She is rather well off up top, and she was very much put off over the looks she got.

Hey, we're guys! We like to look! But there is a line...

 bound for glory wrote:
Many years ago, when 3rd ed Blood Bowl got going, my wife(who was my girlfriend, at the time) would come by on league night.
She is rather well off up top, and she was very much put off over the looks she got.
Hey, we're guys! We like to look! But there is a line...

Yeah, saw a girl/woman wear a low cut top to the FLGS who was rather impressive in filling it.
I am not sure who was more uncomfortable.
Saw many a guy trying so desperately to (continue/try) look up.
Seeing how much of a struggle it was made me feel some sympathy they were not complete dogs but still.
We try to think of the gaming space as an environment of higher reasoning.
Short of saltpeter in the water, it is difficult to keep a space asexual in nature.

I still shake my head when I think my wife did an MBA project on the business plan for an "Executive woman's adult store".
Some pretty scary psychology citing was done on what can put a lady's sensibilities at ease.
I have tried to convey some of the less exciting details of the work with the FLGS owner to make a welcome space for all genders.
Why does this all sound doomed?

I guess it is all a matter of trying to get the right engagement in a safe space with the right people.
Does our club get bonus points that we have two trans-genders play there regularly?
One guy and girl.
We are certainly not lacking in diversity in most things which is awesome.