As competitive play goes, it is important to focus on what counters the meta ATM, which is AD mech, drukhari, SoB and a sprinkle of DG.
This means that 75% of the hard counter are gonna be T3 3/4+ Sv, with an incredible mobility and deadly either in shooting, either in CC; backed up by mobile t6 transport/shooting platform.
All the above trade up their cost (untill tomorrow [???]) The majority of the time. Orks shooting has been a staple until now, thanks to quantity and dice average manipulation thru strats, klan trait and DDD. Now all the above is gone for good. Same as LD and charge manipulation. Everything is gone or flat out worst.
What is a warboss to do, then? Lean hard on the new shiny toy is the obvious choice, but also is important to understand a thing: we are not a shooting army, nor an horde army anymore. At least in the current meta. We cannot avoid minus in shooting, nor bring forth an unwavering tide, nor jump a 30 strong unit safely every turn.
We need to understand and adapt on what is going on, right now.
This means that right now we need to be able to score primaries as cheap as possible and remove enemies from objectives as effective as possible. Therefore i believe that squigbuggies, squigriders, deff dredd, warboss on Squig, stormboyz, kommandos and kill rig are the most effective choice, in any flavor you believe is working
Emicrania wrote: ...Orks shooting has been a staple until now, thanks to quantity and dice average manipulation thru strats, klan trait and DDD. Now all the above is gone for good...
Played shooting heavy Freebooters in 8th, and only got better in 9th. Dunno why you think this tactic is "gone for good"
Blastajet seems to be a monster. It seems we're having a return of the flyin' mek!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd say that shooting is so massively buffed, it's hard to find a place for mellee other than an odd squad here or there.
i would only take multiple nobs on squigs if i was doing a theme army xD
An outrider detachment with mozrog as warboss and squighog riders.
After that you can't have multiple warbosses in the same detatchment so i might bring the nobs on squigs and give them relics & warlord traits to boost them up as mini beast bosses on squigosaurs xD
Mozrog would take surley as a squigoth
The nobz would take
Follow me ladz to boost the charge distance by 1
Beastgob aura +1 damage to squig attacks
as for relics
headwoppa choppa
Beast hide mantle
and i guess... errr ...Broggs Buzz Bomb is the only 1 left they can take xD
I got a 1000pt detachment Bad Moons with Defkilla, 9 bikes, squiggbuggies, KBB and Dakkajet.
Then another detachment with squiggosaur, 6 squighogs, kommando/stormboyz, smasha squig and killrig.
Then some traktor kannons.
Not sure if I need 5 more squigs for splitting the bubble or moar dakka.
One thing I realised playing against drukhari and AdMech is that 2000pt of goffs goes nowhere, as it is so easy to counter, I need half dakka half gork
Firepower has actually increased its efficiency. Lots of units got more shots and sometimes even way more shots, vehicles has now access to a cumulative AP-1 for two turns, something got cheaper and something else even gained better BS and an insanely good shooty relic.
Some mechanics no longer exists but ork shooting has certainly been buffed compared to the 8th edition codex.
I think shooting won't feel so massively buffed once you start shooting into -1 to hit. Which is ya know.. everywhere.
Freebootas still have the same issue as before -- if you can get a kill early, great. If you can't, you're playing clanless. At least their relic and strat are really good.
Jidmah wrote: I need to start collecting all the errors and ambiguities for my FAQ mail... boy, what a mess.
Was this really written by the same people that did Codex: Death Guard?
Please add this to the list
this weird habbit of using plural and singular keywords throughout the book,
NOB keyword instead of NOBZ
KOMMANDO keyword instead of KOMMANDOS
Snikrot for example isn't (Rules as Written) affected by his own aura becasue he has the Kommando keyword and not Kommandos
Want use trukk boyz with Nobz and or MegaNobz (when they fix the clan transport issue) well check again because it has the Nob keyword so only the Nob with a war banner can get in.
Want to use Pyromaniacs on Nobz with scorchas? well you can't because it has the NOB keyword
Want to use the Breakin heads stratagem on a unit within 3" of a Nob with a waaaagghh banner or a Nob on a smasha squig- well you can't because it's only for Nobz
Does this stuff happen in other codex with mixing of plural and singular for keywords?
pepi55 wrote: How do you take an extra one without takung up a slot? is there some special rule I missed?
Probably, it's on the squigriders - if you bring a unit, you can have two of the nobz on smasha squigs without taking up a slot.
Yes, and you can Offer 6 points of assassinate to your opponent. Sadly, until secondaries are changed, nob on sguig is not a good option at all. With our melee characters we already lean towards assassinate, but the 1 per detachment warboss helps us with that. Nob on sguig feths that balance up
My army is already offering up max points for bring it down, they can't have both that and assassinate, they have to pick one. If they pick assassinate, I can just play them safe or use as bait. They are so cheap that I don't have to use them to maximum efficiency, they almost make their points back by rampaging through a unit of guardsmen.
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kingbbobb wrote: Does this stuff happen in other codex with mixing of plural and singular for keywords?
Yes, it's fairly common. It's just more noticeable for orks because of the ork-speak.
There is the little snaffu of of specialist mob not technically be able to get inside vehicles, but it will almost certainly be fixed by a FAQ stating that their "klan" is basically whatever the specialist mob is. If you have mean rule lawyers in your gaming group, you can still do the same thing with a normal squad of burna boyz.
TedNugent wrote: I don't really see the appeal of the nob on squig personally.
You can nearly get 3 squig riders instead.
Take one unit of Squig Riders and you can get three Nob Riders without giving up slots in your detachment. Add to that the character protection, the boosted statline, the ability to take traits and relics, all topped off with the mortal wounds on charge, and you get scary. Three of 'em is, what, 195 pts, and if they charge the same target they average 7 mortal wounds *in the movement phase* before even swinging into combat.
That's a lot of output for the investment.
They don't fit my style, but for a competitive player? That's hot.
3 traits and 3 relics, right? Just want to make sure I'm following this.
I feel like a Squigosaur would be a far better target for traits and relics. Can still deal mortal wounds in combat, especially with Killchoppa, and has a far greater potential damage output, with T7, an invulnerable save and -1 damage base while still being a character. Nob on squig is limited to a 6++.
Here's a stupid idea.
Two patrols, two squigosaurs and as many squighog riders as you like to fill out the four FA slots and protect your characters, up to 24. Everybody now gets +1 to hit. Put Killchoppa on one with BBK. Put Beasthide Mantle on a second with the Goff Trait for +2 attacks and extra AP on the Beast Choppa and +1S on the charge, for a total of 11 attacks at -3 AP. Or the Beastgob if you prefer for +1 D on squig attacks.
I can get that second Squigosaur for about the same cost as two nobs on squigs and it's a far better platform for the relic and trait, although it is going to hose me on some CP.
Excuse me while I puke talking this much about squig dinosaurs on 40k orks.
Vineheart01 wrote: ive never seen anyone consider assassinate. The others in that category are usually easier to get.
To be fair, I did it twice on some tournament with my old list - 2 wazbooms+burnabommer againts IG tank commander (scored T1 in cooperation with SJDs) and some hummie boss in landspeeder (missed it for 1 bloody wound!).
No Look out Sir = chance for Assasination. But… heck… They changed it! Does not work like this anymore…
Emicrania wrote: ...Orks shooting has been a staple until now, thanks to quantity and dice average manipulation thru strats, klan trait and DDD. Now all the above is gone for good...
Played shooting heavy Freebooters in 8th, and only got better in 9th. Dunno why you think this tactic is "gone for good"
Sky is rising, not falling
I won few RTT with freebooters in 8th and played it for about an year competitively. No DDD, no More Dakka and no double tap tankabusta means the shooting output is flat worst. Also smashaguns are more expensive and less effective. Army wide +1 means that you need to be less careful where you place yourself. Not that the bonus is better, it is not.
Furthermore 8th was about killing stuff, 9th is about taking objectives and actions on the board. You can literally win games by never having to shoot nor fight anybody.
I don't see how "the sky is rising" in any real, competitive scenario.
TedNugent wrote: I don't really see the appeal of the nob on squig personally.
You can nearly get 3 squig riders instead.
Take one unit of Squig Riders and you can get three Nob Riders without giving up slots in your detachment. Add to that the character protection, the boosted statline, the ability to take traits and relics, all topped off with the mortal wounds on charge, and you get scary. Three of 'em is, what, 195 pts, and if they charge the same target they average 7 mortal wounds *in the movement phase* before even swinging into combat.
That's a lot of output for the investment.
They don't fit my style, but for a competitive player? That's hot.
3 traits and 3 relics, right? Just want to make sure I'm following this.
I feel like a Squigosaur would be a far better target for traits and relics. Can still deal mortal wounds in combat, especially with Killchoppa, and has a far greater potential damage output, with T7, an invulnerable save and -1 damage base while still being a character. Nob on squig is limited to a 6++.
Here's a stupid idea.
Two patrols, two squigosaurs and as many squighog riders as you like to fill out the four FA slots and protect your characters, up to 24. Everybody now gets +1 to hit. Put Killchoppa on one with BBK. Put Beasthide Mantle on a second with the Goff Trait for +2 attacks and extra AP on the Beast Choppa and +1S on the charge, for a total of 11 attacks at -3 AP. Or the Beastgob if you prefer for +1 D on squig attacks.
I can get that second Squigosaur for about the same cost as two nobs on squigs and it's a far better platform for the relic and trait, although it is going to hose me on some CP.
Excuse me while I puke talking this much about squig dinosaurs on 40k orks.
I don't think spamming all the beastsnaggas will get you anywhere. Effectively, they work a lot like khorne daemons and thus will fail for the same reasons. A patrol of beastsnaggas to augment an otherwise shooty lists will work a lot better than going all-in on them.
TedNugent wrote: I don't really see the appeal of the nob on squig personally.
You can nearly get 3 squig riders instead.
Take one unit of Squig Riders and you can get three Nob Riders without giving up slots in your detachment. Add to that the character protection, the boosted statline, the ability to take traits and relics, all topped off with the mortal wounds on charge, and you get scary. Three of 'em is, what, 195 pts, and if they charge the same target they average 7 mortal wounds *in the movement phase* before even swinging into combat.
That's a lot of output for the investment.
They don't fit my style, but for a competitive player? That's hot.
3 traits and 3 relics, right? Just want to make sure I'm following this.
I feel like a Squigosaur would be a far better target for traits and relics. Can still deal mortal wounds in combat, especially with Killchoppa, and has a far greater potential damage output, with T7, an invulnerable save and -1 damage base while still being a character. Nob on squig is limited to a 6++.
Here's a stupid idea.
Two patrols, two squigosaurs and as many squighog riders as you like to fill out the four FA slots and protect your characters, up to 24. Everybody now gets +1 to hit. Put Killchoppa on one with BBK. Put Beasthide Mantle on a second with the Goff Trait for +2 attacks and extra AP on the Beast Choppa and +1S on the charge, for a total of 11 attacks at -3 AP. Or the Beastgob if you prefer for +1 D on squig attacks.
I can get that second Squigosaur for about the same cost as two nobs on squigs and it's a far better platform for the relic and trait, although it is going to hose me on some CP.
Excuse me while I puke talking this much about squig dinosaurs on 40k orks.
Can't have 24 hogs, max is 18. 3 units of 6. Also there is nothing wrong with squigs in 40k, infact they are the most 40k ork thing there is, seeing how they are biologically weapons of war.
If I ever see the nob on sguig included in a competitive list I will eat my hat, but I honestly don’t see why anyone would risk using them.
A list may bleed bring them down, but bring them down can quickly be a trap choice. Remember, one vp for a buggy. Three for an assassinate on a character.
Unless of course you are offering 20 pv for bring it down, in that case you are building a weird list and yes the opponent will for for bring it down and then you can go crazy on nobs riding sguigs. I am not sure they fit that well in a vehicule heavy list, because adding a base that size (that oval base for the nob is way bigger than the ones for the regular sguig riders) for a non shooting unit seems… pointless ?
Thing the unit ain’t so great (it is ok and the strat enables great shenanigans) even with the Assassinate issue.
Please tell me what you expect yours to do in a game raise banners ?
Add 20 points and that unit will deal mortal wounds on 6s in combat as well. Maybe remove a KMB as a spanner needs to remain alive.
Seems very fun to me, I definitely prefer it over trukk boyz.
At the moment I've toying with Bad Moons biker spam. 3x5, all the bikes I have. In the waaagh turns since klan trait is cumulative to speedwaaagh bonus they can fire several shots at AP-2, right? Sounds awesome and for 1CP 6s are two hits.
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Vineheart01 wrote: ive never seen anyone consider assassinate. The others in that category are usually easier to get.
Assassinate is an autotake when someone brings 4-5 characters that will likely die. And melee oriented ork characters are destined to die at some point.
Blackie wrote: Firepower has actually increased its efficiency. Lots of units got more shots and sometimes even way more shots, vehicles has now access to a cumulative AP-1 for two turns, something got cheaper and something else even gained better BS and an insanely good shooty relic.
Some mechanics no longer exists but ork shooting has certainly been buffed compared to the 8th edition codex.
Not to be a negative nancy, but that really isn't the case.
DDD is gone which reduced the dmg average of weapons at mid to long range. Shoot twice is gone in both its incarnations as stratagems. Moar dakka is gone. While some weapons absolutely got better in a lot of scenarios, some got worse. The army wide loss of advance and shoot for the most part is a heavy loss to our shooting. Rokkitz going to heavy and blast was good on some vehicles but terrible on infantry. Tankbustas got worse in most competitive scenarios, 20 shots on average while moving and targeting vehicles means they average 6.66 hits a turn per 10 Tankbusta, previously it was 10 shots, 3.3 initial hits 6.666 rerolls for another 2.2 hits, total of 5.5 add in DDD and it became 2.75 exploding shots for another .91 hits and 1.86 rerolls for a further 0.6 hits, total was right around 7. So not much of a loss but definitely not a buff, and yes if they rolled 3 shots a turn it was better, but you have the same percentage chance to roll worse and get 1 shot which is worse.
The Dakkajet absolutely got cheaper and gained more shots so that is great, I'm not saying everything got nerfed or anything like that. But the Dakkajet was trash tier before when it averaged 18 shots at BS4 which averaged 10.5 HITS a turn. It costs 50pts less (needs to go down even more) and its now BS5+ and Dakka 6/4? (Can't remember and don't have my codex in front of me). Don't get me wrong, its incredibly fast on a small board so you are going to get in half range most turns, but on those rare occasions you dont, you are going to average 24 shots and 8 hits.
Mek gunz were taken behind the shed and beaten to death by GW with a nerf bat and last edition they were undoubtedly one of the best shooting platforms in the game. Going from 18 max to 9 is a nerf, taking away DDD is a nerf, giving them LD4 is a Major nerf.
Again, I really want to reiterate this because i'm not trying to just be the negative downer guy, some things absolutely got buffs, Burna boyz among others, but its not all good and overall I think Ork long range shooting took a bit of a nerf.
Well about Mek Gunz: most of the ork players don't own more than 3 and now both traktors and KMKs are cheaper, the former even way more powerful than they were with their hitting on 3s and damage 4-9. They also gained additional AP in the waaagh turns. So the overly competitive player who spammed 9+ smasha gunz took a hit, but I think that's a good thing and overall Mek Gunz are better. Avoiding spam makes also the game healthier, so I'm glad GW re-wrote them.
Take 3 units of 1. 135 points for some solid firepower. Large batteries were nerfed but solo models are way better now.
What about the bikes? Cheaper, more shots, access to AP (even AP-2 under Bad Moons) for the couple of turns that matter, gained AP in combat and are way tougher than before with +1W and native -1 to hit. Tankbustas were nerfed but many other sources of rokkits have been improved.
What about the squig buggy that went from total garbage to a top tier unit?
I personally just think whether or not Orks are stronger at shooting now comes down to prevalence of negative modifiers to hit. We're super vulnerable to it and if eldar get to keep it as an army wide trait alongside a hefty general buff of their army in their 9th codex then shooty lists will have an incredibly difficult time against them. I'm probably leaning overall that our shooting is slightly worse than before but the speedwaaagh mechanic is certainly a quite interesting way of buffing our shooting into overdrive.
In regards to strong shooting, the fact that the wazbom blastajet can't be a boom boy I'm guessing is a balance decision and not a mistake? I get that it'd have an absolutely terrifying amount of dakka but it doesn't scream logical sense why it's not allowed. Also, let me have AP-2 stikkbomb flingas damnit (boom boyz + speedwaaagh)
Boomboyz is for rokkits and killkannons bearers. Wazbom has neither of those. If anything rokkit kanz/dreads or scrapjets chould have been eligible to the specialist trait.
Please tell me what you expect yours to do in a game raise banners ?
Banners are one of my favorite secondaries in buggy list. Score very high in almost all missions with 6 objectives and some with 5 also.
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Blackie wrote: What about the squig buggy that went from total garbage to a top tier unit?
I 'm also aroused from the first no-LOS shooting in our codex since decades (and the opportunity to convert the most ugly one from buggies also) , but I will be carefoul to call it top tier. Definitely good, but not sure about top tier.
Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?
DakkaDakkaDakka was the most overrated and useless ability we had in precious codex.
It increased the damage output by Damage+1/6*2/6 = Damage + 2/36 means 1/18.
It had a very good passive mechanism sgainst eldar as we always scored at six, now everyone got it.
We are very good at shooting atm. Not only because we fire more shots, but because our shoots are. avery high mobility pñatforms eprfect for destroy the nerfed AdMech or the almight Drukhari, making his troops disembark from raiders
Interesting, Pyromaniacs is not available on KBB, the most pyromaniac unit in out codex…
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Blackie wrote: Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?
You' re right This should be added to the list of bugs
Blackie wrote: Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?
Maybe it's an actual screw-up and they meant to say wazbom and not blitza? Even the burna-bommer would have some use being a boom boy, so it's strange.. Maybe boom boyz did something else (or in addition) in the playtest codex and they changed it and now some things no longer makes sense..? It's another thing to ask GW about at least
Jidmah wrote: I need to start collecting all the errors and ambiguities for my FAQ mail... boy, what a mess.
Was this really written by the same people that did Codex: Death Guard?
Please add this to the list
this weird habbit of using plural and singular keywords throughout the book,
NOB keyword instead of NOBZ
KOMMANDO keyword instead of KOMMANDOS
Snikrot for example isn't (Rules as Written) affected by his own aura becasue he has the Kommando keyword and not Kommandos
Want use trukk boyz with Nobz and or MegaNobz (when they fix the clan transport issue) well check again because it has the Nob keyword so only the Nob with a war banner can get in.
Want to use Pyromaniacs on Nobz with scorchas? well you can't because it has the NOB keyword
Want to use the Breakin heads stratagem on a unit within 3" of a Nob with a waaaagghh banner or a Nob on a smasha squig- well you can't because it's only for Nobz
Does this stuff happen in other codex with mixing of plural and singular for keywords?
GW recently answered a FAQ stating that plural and non-plural versions of keywords are exactly the same.
So, as we found out reading the rule book, manz can indeed be trukkboyz. Now with that out off the way, I'm thinking of kombirokkit trukk manz.
+1 to hit takes them back to 5+ after movement. They get 4+ while stationary inside a trukk and can still utilize their charges after movement for more utility. Than you could just camp on a midfield objective and roll your regular rokkits. I think 5ppm price increase can be worth it. So that manz aren't completely out of picture turn 1 when you don't need this charge or don't want a risk and are just happy to get to midboard.
Luckily, I have a bunch if spare rokkit-heads from my 3 new skrapjets!
Tomsug wrote: Interesting, Pyromaniacs is not available on KBB, the most pyromaniac unit in out codex…
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Blackie wrote: Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?
You' re right This should be added to the list of bugs
The relevant weapons for the Boosta-Blasta are listed as being affected by the rule (Burna Exhausts), but Boosta-blastas themselves aren't an eligible unit for being Pyromaniacs. Just another editing issue in a codex rife with them. I hadn't even considered the Blitza-Bommer... absolutely ridiculous. This book was flat out not edited past maybe 2nd draft.
Tomsug wrote: Interesting, Pyromaniacs is not available on KBB, the most pyromaniac unit in out codex…
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackie wrote: Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?
You' re right This should be added to the list of bugs
The relevant weapons for the Boosta-Blasta are listed as being affected by the rule (Burna Exhausts), but Boosta-blastas themselves aren't an eligible unit for being Pyromaniacs. Just another editing issue in a codex rife with them. I hadn't even considered the Blitza-Bommer... absolutely ridiculous. This book was flat out not edited past maybe 2nd draft.
I get the feeling they didn't do the specialist mobs at all. Copy and paste job from 8th
Great news! but replying only for this seems like a waste... so anybody know if the BW can be taken as a "serious" unit? not just a glorified trukk transport unit, but something threatening.
I think 120 pt wagon are great for something like 5 manz or a bunch of tankbustas. Heck, you can even transport grots and that'd still be a decent scoring unit.
Hey gang, question. I keep seeing people talk about Tankbustas being 4+ against vehicles while mounted in a Trukk and I'm curious how that works.
While in a Trukk, they can shoot out due to open-topped, no problem.
However, while in a vehicle, they can't use abilities, like +1 to-hit against vehciles, as models in transports have no access to abilities (thus why you can't have a "hidden" KFF or a Warboss calling Waaagh from the safety of their Battlewagon) … so what lets Tankbustas still get that ability when other things don't?
Wakshaani wrote: Hey gang, question. I keep seeing people talk about Tankbustas being 4+ against vehicles while mounted in a Trukk and I'm curious how that works.
While in a Trukk, they can shoot out due to open-topped, no problem.
However, while in a vehicle, they can't use abilities, like +1 to-hit against vehciles, as models in transports have no access to abilities (thus why you can't have a "hidden" KFF or a Warboss calling Waaagh from the safety of their Battlewagon) … so what lets Tankbustas still get that ability when other things don't?
9th edition Core rules version 1.3
"Any abilities (including Detachment abilities) that models in an embarked unit have, or that their weapons have, continue to apply when they make ranged attacks."
Which is funny because that opentopped rule being broken was actually BETTER for us than having it fixed. Because it made them immune to every rule, including the old bombsquigs suiciding when they attack (oh wait im not affected by any rules!!) I dont know of anybody that actually played it the way it was worded, instead used the old verbage of it that did work. Because of gak like bombsqsuigs lol. So literally unless it specified "transport" it didnt work. But they could still shoot, because a "transport" rule allowed it.
I just want to mention I've looked at like 3 profiles in Battle scribe and already found multiple errors.
For example, Deff Rolla is listed as 20 points, when it's 15 in the new codex, and hard case is listed as 0 when it is 15 in the new codex. Beastboss on squigosaur is also listed with Ramshackle, which obviously he does not have.
Hopefully they iron out some kinks but I recall them being present in Kill Team for months before corrections.
It looks like it's not just GW that messes things up.
Battlescribe usually has a lot of errors the first go around. Give'm time and report stuff.
On another note, Admech got toned down a bit. Vanguard strat autowounds on a 5+ and costs 2cp if 11+ models. Rangers is now Heavy3, not Rapid2 Autopass morale near an objective is once per game Ironstriders lost core Lucius's +1 if 1D attack doesnt stack with cover
So a lot of our big scary problem with admech got cut back a LOT. Trust me, still a lethal army but now theyre not comically lethal.
Blackie wrote: Well about Mek Gunz: most of the ork players don't own more than 3 and now both traktors and KMKs are cheaper, the former even way more powerful than they were with their hitting on 3s and damage 4-9. They also gained additional AP in the waaagh turns. So the overly competitive player who spammed 9+ smasha gunz took a hit, but I think that's a good thing and overall Mek Gunz are better. Avoiding spam makes also the game healthier, so I'm glad GW re-wrote them.
Take 3 units of 1. 135 points for some solid firepower. Large batteries were nerfed but solo models are way better now.
What about the bikes? Cheaper, more shots, access to AP (even AP-2 under Bad Moons) for the couple of turns that matter, gained AP in combat and are way tougher than before with +1W and native -1 to hit. Tankbustas were nerfed but many other sources of rokkits have been improved.
What about the squig buggy that went from total garbage to a top tier unit?
I have 10 Mek gunz (half converted with Trukkz). I was looking forward to getting 2 more to field 2 full batteries but not anymore I guess . And I like the fact that Smasha gunz aren't the only one worth a damn, but going from being able to field 10 with relatively ease to having to take 3 slots for Heavy support just to field 3 of them is a massive nerf to our ranged firepower.
As far as Bikes, I agree they got better. But they went from garbage to playable and not much else. Even in Dakkarange, which is hard to get a unit of 3 will get 30 shots, 10 hits and 6.6 wounds vs Marines for 1 Dead Marine on average. Don't get me wrong, that is actually pretty good value (75pts killing 18-20) but its not even above mid level return. My rule of thumb which I usually bring up during the initial releases is that a unit that is relatively durable should be able to make back its points value in 3 rounds of shooting. That is the bare minimum for it to even be remotely considered. Anything less and it needs to be either a massive CC threat or incredibly durable. The bike definitely got a lot more durable with the -1 to hit and its 3rd wound which is that sweet spot with all the D2 floating around, but its still not super competitive. You have to remember that getting into that 9' range to get the dakkagunz in range is going to be hard, and borderline impossible turn 1.
As far as the "Squigbuggy" I'll be blunt, I hate the damn model so much that I doubt i'll get any. So I openly admit my bias from the start 2D6 shots at basically BS4 is absolutely ok. But it averages out to 7 shots and 3.5 hits. Against a T4 Marine its 2.25 wounds and at -2AP its 1.5 unsaved wounds so you kill 1 Marine and have a 50/50 of killing a 2nd with its 2D profile. Again, not bad but not exactly top tier. The shorter ranged regular launcha is 3.5 shots, 1.16 hits, 0.77 wounds, 0.51 go through armor so all together it averages 2 dead Marines a turn with both guns. I would argue this is a good investment unit since against its average target its earning back 36pts out of 90 spent on it. Not bad.
Kebabcito wrote: DakkaDakkaDakka was the most overrated and useless ability we had in precious codex.
It increased the damage output by Damage+1/6*2/6 = Damage + 2/36 means 1/18.
It had a very good passive mechanism sgainst eldar as we always scored at six, now everyone got it.
We are very good at shooting atm. Not only because we fire more shots, but because our shoots are. avery high mobility pñatforms eprfect for destroy the nerfed AdMech or the almight Drukhari, making his troops disembark from raiders
I agree again, I liked DDD as a concept but i think in 8th it was brought out hamfisted because the Exploding 6s should have been auto-hits. GW realized if they did that though it would be similar to giving Orkz BS4 and that was a bit scary for them. Imagine shooting 6 rokkitz and rolling hot and getting 3 6s
But, since DDD was implemented and gave us Always hit on 6 I kind of assumed that once it became a game wide rule they would take the seriously under powered DDD rule and give it a major overhaul to make up for the loss of one of the core rules it used to have...boy were we wrong, instead of a hamfisted, slow rule that increased our ranged firepower, we got a crappier rule that encourages you to get close to the enemy as quickly as possible but also doesn't let you advance and shoot....seriously, I think GW just rushed this codex out without playtesting most of this stuff.
Just in case, speed waagh freeboota bikers with +1 to hit kill 1 marine each with shooting alone. And there's nothing preventing you from using more dakka 1 cp strat to get full shooting at 18"
Battalion-goff
Beastboss on squig- Brutal but kunnin, headwompa, big boss, extra relic
Makari - big boss, warlord trait-follow me lads (+1 to charge rolls)
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Gretchin (orrible gitz)-obj secured
5x squigriders
10x stormboys (nob w pk)
Killrig-frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig-roar of gork, squiggly curse
So I’m left with 6cp left over after +1 relics and +2 warlord traits
But the jist of the list lots of objective secured, rerolls on the shooting buggies, goff buffs on the melee, and beast snaggas psykers buffing beast snaggas and shooting out mortal wound bombs. You have 3 character bombs- ghaz, warboss on bike and beastboss on bike playing toward thier strengths.
makari… is the only fnp aura that covers all ork models including vehicles, Gretchin, etc (goff only), we also give him the warlord trait follow me lads because it gives more reliability with +1 to charge rolls to all ork goff units! While ghaz and makari are generally always trying to get in engagement range I’m not sure if makari warlord trait will see a lot of use. That 1cp might be better giving the warboss on bike a warlord trait instead but I’ll try makari first.
The orrible gitz are either used as a grot shield screen and/or rushed ahead to become a -1 to hit debuff bomb that enters your opponents deployment zone causing issues to thier shooting. They benefit from makari leadership aura.
Kommandos scout screen if needed or another cheap late game objective grabber with obj secured.
Lots of 5 or 6++ invuls and a large 6+++ fnp aura and the deathskulls have a 5++ mortal wound save as well.
Multiple +1 to hit auras and ghaz has a reroll any hit in melee aura and both Waagh. Scrapjets can also cause a lot of mortal wound damage especially if you give them the ramming speed strat. Also wasn’t sure if a more Dakka dakkajet would be better then a buggy but the points work out better like this and I don’t want to reduce bodies on the board anymore.
Hopefully they fix specialist detachments by removing kultur not clan. So that way
Makari increases Gretchin leadership to ld6 (12in range) and gives them 6+fnp (and all goff units within 3in including Killrig).
Wakshaani wrote: Hey gang, question. I keep seeing people talk about Tankbustas being 4+ against vehicles while mounted in a Trukk and I'm curious how that works.
I think they're legit as they're basically like 8th flash gitz. Position them in a central spot and bring other vehicles to get saturation. Now they don't need to move and they can fire at 4+ against vehicles. If they're Bad Moons they can be positioned more defensively as they gain +6'' range, and 6s also become AP-3. That's how I'd play them.
I have 10 Mek gunz (half converted with Trukkz). I was looking forward to getting 2 more to field 2 full batteries but not anymore I guess . And I like the fact that Smasha gunz aren't the only one worth a damn, but going from being able to field 10 with relatively ease to having to take 3 slots for Heavy support just to field 3 of them is a massive nerf to our ranged firepower.
Yeah, I had 6 made out of trukks with weapons from the BW and I love them as well. But I'm happy to shelve a few of them if I can finally bring to the table several units that I never (or almost never) used since 7th edition: lootas, koptas, bikes, burnaboyz, dreads, wazbom, maybe even kanz maybe. Codex seems well balanced internally, way better than the 8th book was.
As far as Bikes, I agree they got better. But they went from garbage to playable and not much else. Even in Dakkarange, which is hard to get a unit of 3 will get 30 shots, 10 hits and 6.6 wounds vs Marines for 1 Dead Marine on average. Don't get me wrong, that is actually pretty good value (75pts killing 18-20) but its not even above mid level return. My rule of thumb which I usually bring up during the initial releases is that a unit that is relatively durable should be able to make back its points value in 3 rounds of shooting. That is the bare minimum for it to even be remotely considered. Anything less and it needs to be either a massive CC threat or incredibly durable. The bike definitely got a lot more durable with the -1 to hit and its 3rd wound which is that sweet spot with all the D2 floating around, but its still not super competitive. You have to remember that getting into that 9' range to get the dakkagunz in range is going to be hard, and borderline impossible turn 1.
Bad Moons bikes have better range which helps for getting max shots and 6s are extra AP which means some AP-2 in the waaagh turns and some AP-1 always. With a 1CP stratagem 6s are extra hits. They can make their points back faster if played correctly and with the appropriate buffs.
If, like me, you were poking around and found Battlescribe spitting errors at you for including a dakkajet due to the number of supashootas it was carrying, it's a simple fix if you have access to the data editor.
Just gotta zip on down to the dakkajet's unit entry and deselect the shared checkbox on both child entries of supashoota. Save it and don't increment the version number (to avoid mishaps with updating in the future) and viola! No more ugly red mark when you want a pretty plane full of bullets.
It was a simple enough fix to do, so I'm sure many of you already knew to do it. I posted this for those of us who aren't a wiz with the data editor.
Between the Kustom Boosta blasts and the Boomdakka Snazzwagon which do you guys like? They seem to fill similar roles in anti medium infantry and light vehicles. The Boosta Blasta has more strength, but fewer shots overall, but 6" more range for easier access to dakka's enhanced profile. Not too sure which I want to spend $ on to buy.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Between the Kustom Boosta blasts and the Boomdakka Snazzwagon which do you guys like? They seem to fill similar roles in anti medium infantry and light vehicles. The Boosta Blasta has more strength, but fewer shots overall, but 6" more range for easier access to dakka's enhanced profile. Not too sure which I want to spend $ on to buy.
I personally prefer the Snazzwagon at the moment, I'm more likely to get hits/wounds off because I'm firing off more shots and they're that little bit more durable with the inbuilt -1 to hit.
The Boosta Blasta is certainly better at hunting light vehicles and similar target due to the higher strength and it also has the spiked ram for melee potential though.
It's highly up to your local meta and would probably really come down to preference in my opinion.
The good thing is is that they kind of look similar as far as weapon loadouts go, so if you kitbash your buggies you can make something that can be either/or.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Between the Kustom Boosta blasts and the Boomdakka Snazzwagon which do you guys like? They seem to fill similar roles in anti medium infantry and light vehicles. The Boosta Blasta has more strength, but fewer shots overall, but 6" more range for easier access to dakka's enhanced profile. Not too sure which I want to spend $ on to buy.
My local scene is mecrifully free of 2w majority armies so the KBB wins out.
Can someone explain to me what the role for the Gunwagon is when we have a kannon wagon that gets free big shoota upgrades? Going Da boomer is pretty identical to a kannonwagon now.. and its not as good as a kannon wagon if you do that id say.
Beardedragon wrote: Can someone explain to me what the role for the Gunwagon is when we have a kannon wagon that gets free big shoota upgrades? Going Da boomer is pretty identical to a kannonwagon now.. and its not as good as a kannon wagon if you do that id say.
Granted they are still free that is.
The simple answer is that FW books are not written to form a coherent army or maintain internal/external balance, but to provide rules for premium models they sell.
There is no reasoning outside of that. Just use the kannonwagon.
Tomsug wrote: Interesting, Pyromaniacs is not available on KBB, the most pyromaniac unit in out codex…
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackie wrote: Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?
You' re right This should be added to the list of bugs
Lore wise the most pyromanically unit should be the Boomdakka
Gunwagon never really had a place except for when DaBooma initially showed up because it allowed 4D6 shots, which was kinda weird.
Kannonwagon is an older sculpt but its not an ancient one thats falling apart so odds are the kannonwagon wont go away anytime soon either. And FW almost never gets cost adjustments unless its causing a problem.
Quite frankly its more odd that the Gunwagon is even a thing, or for that matter the Bonebreaka. Neither have ever been a thing before and suddenly we have 2 BW variants? odd indeed
with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots
this must be broken?
i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.
i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?
Read the core rulebook, you are confusing a unit being selected to shoot with a unit making an attack. When a unit is selected to shoot and chooses what weapon(s) to make attacks with, they make a number of attacks equal to the number written on that weapon's profile after its type. So a rule which modifies the number of attacks a unit makes with a particular ranged weapon is just modifying the number on their weapon profile's type.
Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?
You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.
with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots
this must be broken?
i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.
i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?
Read the core rulebook, you are confusing a unit being selected to shoot with a unit making an attack. When a unit is selected to shoot and chooses what weapon(s) to make attacks with, they make a number of attacks equal to the number written on that weapon's profile after its type. So a rule which modifies the number of attacks a unit makes with a particular ranged weapon is just modifying the number on their weapon profile's type.
Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?
That probably is what they meant to do, but it didn't sound to me like it is modifying the weapons profile.
Well is it really so hard for them to just say "add +1 to the weapons attack characteristic of all Dakka weapons"
Sorry, but the rules are very clear and absolutely water-tight in that regard. One shot is one attack, adding an attack means adding one shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wakshaani wrote: They were around in 8th at he least. Probably 7th as well, I'd have to dig out the older codex.
8th edition's codex was the first time they were ever featured as varients of the battlewagon. Gunwagons could be found in old FW books, being a completely different model, and bonebreakas didn't exist outside of epic.
koooaei wrote: You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.
"+1 for their own ability". you mean Throat Slittas ? nahh, that's +1 on the wound roll, not the AP.
Which is still very good...
Madjob wrote: Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?
How did you come to that reckoning?
For clarity, the buggies are:
Boomdakka Snazzwagon - no CC weapon
Kustom Boosta Blasta - spiked ram, no CC weapon
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy - S7 AP-2 D2
Shockjump Dragsta - S7 Ap-2 D2
Megatrakk Scrapjet - spiked ram plus S8 Ap-2 Dd3
The scrapjet has a very important str boost (Str 8 is very important breakpoint, giving bonuses against T7 and T8 vehicles, T4 infantry, and getting over the Ramshackle rule in the mirror), and gets both CC weapon and ram ability. All buggies hit on 4s and have 4 attacks. It seems like you're basing your argument entirely on the fact that the scrapjet's CC weapon is d3 damage instead of 2 damage flat, when there are other concrete benefits the model has over its competitors. Plus, the prevalence of -1 damage effects means that having that 1 in 3 chance of actually doing extra damage is, potentially, a boon.
koooaei wrote: You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.
"+1 for their own ability". you mean Throat Slittas ? nahh, that's +1 on the wound roll, not the AP.
Which is still very good...
Oh, my bad. Well, than ap2 +1 to wound kommandoez. Now if it's any better than simply running goffs...
Madjob wrote: Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?
How did you come to that reckoning?
For clarity, the buggies are:
Boomdakka Snazzwagon - no CC weapon
Kustom Boosta Blasta - spiked ram, no CC weapon
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy - S7 AP-2 D2
Shockjump Dragsta - S7 Ap-2 D2
Megatrakk Scrapjet - spiked ram plus S8 Ap-2 Dd3
The scrapjet has a very important str boost (Str 8 is very important breakpoint, giving bonuses against T7 and T8 vehicles, T4 infantry, and getting over the Ramshackle rule in the mirror), and gets both CC weapon and ram ability. All buggies hit on 4s and have 4 attacks. It seems like you're basing your argument entirely on the fact that the scrapjet's CC weapon is d3 damage instead of 2 damage flat, when there are other concrete benefits the model has over its competitors. Plus, the prevalence of -1 damage effects means that having that 1 in 3 chance of actually doing extra damage is, potentially, a boon.
I'm genuinely curious why you hold that opinion.
You're being too forgiving of Dd3. I wouldn't be charging something that's going to have an easy time ignoring D2, and there's plenty of multi-wound targets that don't have damage reduction where S7 is the same as S8.
Buggies and bikes re far more overpowered than squiggs and make us nearly invincible against all but 4 or 5 armies of the whole game. Anyone who is not capable of having a lot of F8 antitank weapons without having a useless list has 0 chance against us.
Super high mobility shooting tanky platforms undercosted and easy to spam that will destroy the frontend of the opponent for a absurdly strong charge at turn 2 or 3. And better to not try to tank them in the middle of the board with Sacrosants/bladeguards/mortarion bubble, because 6 squighogs with the aura in a smasha squig and the +1 to hit of warboss just rape them in 1 turn.
Stop complaining. You can complain about throwing all your greentide into trash, but not about our vehicles
I'm going to assume those posts about complaining aren't aimed at my head as my post was a simple comparison between types of buggies, not a criticism of them in general. (My own ork army is literally oops all buggies and bikes because green tide doesn't appeal to me in much the same way as my guard army is scions.) Buggies are awesome. Full stop.
On the megatrak scrapjet: I understand that conventional wisdom holds that D2 is better than Dd3. I don't think that difference is so major as to overshadow the S8 and mortal wound output of the scrapjet.
Most of them average 2 dead MEQ a turn for about 90 points if you do the math. I don't know that the buggies are "overpowered."
I realize that the Rukkatrukk is ignore LOS, and blast, and that's cool because they're useful in TAC. But the shooting is literally an average of 2 wounds at 18" against a T4/3+ at D2. So 3 of them would be able to wipe a combat squad at 18".
Most of the other buggies work out to about the same, 2 wounds at 2 damage against T4/3+.
ryzouken wrote: I'm going to assume those posts about complaining aren't aimed at my head as my post was a simple comparison between types of buggies, not a criticism of them in general. (My own ork army is literally oops all buggies and bikes because green tide doesn't appeal to me in much the same way as my guard army is scions.) Buggies are awesome. Full stop.
On the megatrak scrapjet: I understand that conventional wisdom holds that D2 is better than Dd3. I don't think that difference is so major as to overshadow the S8 and mortal wound output of the scrapjet.
Sadly, d3 is better now. Cause of the abundance of -1 damage. At least you have a 1/3 chance to "crit".
So I had my first try out of a 2k list vs a two player team of SoB and Harlequins (we didn't want to do a three way game since it never works out) and HOO boy, yup, our buggies and vehicles are pushed to move. I was skeptical due to the loss of our kustom jobs but I think the stats boosts for a lot of our weapons (dakkajet, wazbom, and Scrapjets were MVP's) and even the CC stats of the sawblades on the shokkjump dragsta did a lot more than I expected. I ended up borderline tabling them by T3 before they conceded, they didn't have enough S8 weaponry (and sadly the Harlie player rolled like 4 2's to wound for his fusion pistol hit squad). to punch through the sheer number of vehicles in my list since I also got first turn and one-shot the SoB Exorcist so he wouldn't be able to retaliate. The SoB player in particular was really upset that his HB were basically downgraded back to their OG version and his Mortifiers struggled to handle them, even Celestine was neutered heavily thanks to Ramshackle. I think the SoB player got a little traumatised so I felt bad lol.
Having Kommandos do a pre-game scout deployment also makes it really useful to get that early Retrieve Octarius Data and set up for Engage on All Fronts even more easier than it should be.
Honestly, I feel like buggy lists are going to gatekeep lists that don't pack S8 and higher weapons in enough quantities. I wouldn't expect our cheap prices for our buggies to last too long.
Spoiler:
Ork Buggy SpeedWAAAGH! 2000 point list:
Total CP: 12 - 4 = 8 CP
Ork Deffskullz Outrider Detachment (-3CP) - 1,240
HQ - 115
Warboss on Warbike with Killa Klaw Big Boss WL Trait: Brutal but Kunnin (-1CP) - 115
Troops - 90
10 Trukk Boyz Specialists, Nob with Two Choppas - 90
Fast Attack - 520
Mega Trakk Scrapjet - 90
Mega Trakk Scrapjet - 90
Mega Trakk Scrapjet - 90
Kustom Boosta Blasta - 80
Kustom Boosta Blasta - 80
Shokkdrump Dragsta - 90
Flyers - 325
Dakkajet with 6 Supa Shootas, More Dakka - 135
Wazbom Blastajet with two Tellyport Mega-Blasta, Blasta-Jet Forcefield - 210
Elites - 120
5 Kommandos, Nob with Power Klaw - 55
6 Kommandos, Nob with Power Klaw - 65
Dedicated Transports - 70
Trukk - 70
Ork Deffskullz Patrol Detachment - 755
HQ - 120
Deffkilla Wartrike, WL Trait: Opportunist - 120
Troops - 90
10 Ork Trukk Boyz Specialists, Nob with Two Choppas - 90
Haven't tried the squadron yet, but I only see downsides in playing anything different than solo buggies. I can get over with the impractical movement of multiple large bases but a squadron is simply too vulnerable to high quality firepower. No more overkilling a single model and if a model is in melta range the entire unit is. Eradicators can double tap against a squadron, but can't kill more than single model against a solo unit.
Beardedragon wrote: So when you do outrider detatchment, what klan do you go for, with solo buggies?
Im unsure if i should run deathskulls with the nerfs they had, so i thought maybe i should go for Freebootas instead?
I'm leaning towards Bad Moons, time to abandon my beloved Deathskulls. Better range and free AP-1 on 6s which is nice on weapons with high rate of fire. Bikes and scrapjets should benefit a lot from this klan. Dedicated stratagem to get double hits is also nice. Big Krumpaz and Pyromaniacs upgrades for Meganobz and Burnaboyz.
Freebootas are also legit. I just don't like the klan mechanics but it's certainly a powerful klan. Deathskulls right now is more oriented on spamming Obj Sec specialists.
DeathSkulls is for spam of MSU Kommandos and Stormboyz rerolling the Klaw, trying to steal Objectives and stuff.
I'm going Bad Moons, as Freebooters is, for me, better at casual games but useless against good players because they will know how it works and won't let you gain the +1 for all your army easier, you'll have it only for few units.
Bad moons sinergize extremely well with Speedwaagh and make our Dakkajets/Bikes far better, making the stacks of buffs a nightmare for high armoured teams (AdMech, SM, sisters). I think it is the only decent synergy and buffstacking worth, tbh.
I removed from my list the 3 deffkoptas as, I think, they will die after shooting. I added a Wazbom Blastajet together with the Dakkajet as I was looking for something more antitank.
So, half my army (1050pt) are -1 to hit and some invul. I've got Defkilla with Cloud stratagem onto KBB and Scrapjet and then Dakkajet with Wazboom. I've got 2 traktor kannons in my deployment zone (I think they are not in danger with all the threats I've got on the board) and then 9 bikes with passive -1. Then 1000pt of Squig Goffs with a KillRig more for distraction carnifex, as my real damage comes from Bikes at distance and Squighogs at melee.
I hope they fix the Specialist Mobs rule in a way that the Warboss aura still works if the warboss itself is a Specialist Mob.
If so, I belive having a Truk Boy(z) Warboss in Mega Armour looks strong. In the same time the Trukk can be used for some shooting unit like Tankbustas,
Jidmah wrote: Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.
Wait a second, don't you pay full 3?
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for buggies, I think the best composition depends in many factors. The size of the game, army composition and clans make a big difference.
For example, if you play 2k competitively, you will want more squadded buggies to get into that 6" of your trike and off mek. Also, you want to lower the amount of units the enemy can destroy in one round.
So, 3 squads of 2 or 3*3 skrapjets are a no-brainer. They're just too good. And the best clan there is freebooter cause you will get that +1 fairly quickly with planes and squigbuggies as almost any army will have a couple scoring squads hidden out of Los. And if they don't, they will loose the objective game anyway. Also, when you run 3*3, freebooter's wt for +1 ld starts to shine as ld8 buggies don't run away and ld manipulating is very rare at that point.
Squigbuggies are better run solo cause solo buggies are much easier hidden out of Los and you will probably get nitro squigs anyway.
Others are probably better off in squads of 2.
For smaller <1k pt games you will want more solo buggies as you need better board controls and they will easier fit within the buff radius.
Jidmah wrote: Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.
Wait a second, don't you pay full 3?
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for buggies, I think the best composition depends in many factors. The size of the game, army composition and clans make a big difference.
For example, if you play 2k competitively, you will want more squadded buggies to get into that 6" of your trike and off mek. Also, you want to lower the amount of units the enemy can destroy in one round.
So, 3 squads of 2 or 3*3 skrapjets are a no-brainer. They're just too good. And the best clan there is freebooter cause you will get that +1 fairly quickly with planes and squigbuggies as almost any army will have a couple scoring squads hidden out of Los. And if they don't, they will loose the objective game anyway. Also, when you run 3*3, freebooter's wt for +1 ld starts to shine as ld8 buggies don't run away and ld manipulating is very rare at that point.
Squigbuggies are better run solo cause solo buggies are much easier hidden out of Los and you will probably get nitro squigs anyway.
Others are probably better off in squads of 2.
For smaller <1k pt games you will want more solo buggies as you need better board controls and they will easier fit within the buff radius.
I think Jidmah meant he's only paying 1 more CP over a patrol to get more FA slots to get those single buggies in.
koooaei wrote: Just in case, speed waagh freeboota bikers with +1 to hit kill 1 marine each with shooting alone. And there's nothing preventing you from using more dakka 1 cp strat to get full shooting at 18"
Again, same thing as the Dakkajet, sounds good until you realize how much has to go right or you have to spend to make it work. Have to be freeboota, have to get +1 to go off, have to be in a speedwaaagh, have to be either in half range or spend CP.
After all of that you end up with 12 shots per bike 6 hits, 4 wounds for 2dmg against a Marine, per bike. Against a lot of armies you are going to have a hard time proccing Freeboota kulture, against a lot of armies you will be hitting at -1, etc etc etc. So many rules interactions that are both common and which can throw off that entire scenario.
As far as Bikes, I agree they got better. But they went from garbage to playable and not much else. Even in Dakkarange, which is hard to get a unit of 3 will get 30 shots, 10 hits and 6.6 wounds vs Marines for 1 Dead Marine on average. Don't get me wrong, that is actually pretty good value (75pts killing 18-20) but its not even above mid level return. My rule of thumb which I usually bring up during the initial releases is that a unit that is relatively durable should be able to make back its points value in 3 rounds of shooting. That is the bare minimum for it to even be remotely considered. Anything less and it needs to be either a massive CC threat or incredibly durable. The bike definitely got a lot more durable with the -1 to hit and its 3rd wound which is that sweet spot with all the D2 floating around, but its still not super competitive. You have to remember that getting into that 9' range to get the dakkagunz in range is going to be hard, and borderline impossible turn 1.
Bad Moons bikes have better range which helps for getting max shots and 6s are extra AP which means some AP-2 in the waaagh turns and some AP-1 always. With a 1CP stratagem 6s are extra hits. They can make their points back faster if played correctly and with the appropriate buffs.
Bad moonz is +6 range so those dakkagunz proc at 12' range instead of 9. Significantly better than 9 but not enough honestly. The 6s to wound at -1AP is a nice bonus but again, not enough.
But you hit the nail on the head with that last portion. They can make their points back if played correctly, and like I said, for that to happen a lot of stuff has to happen in the right order. The issue with Bikes is going to be whether or not they survive long enough to make their points back. -1 to hit and 3 wounds is good, especially with the points decrease, so maybe they will live long enough, morale is going to be a killer but bikes in my opinion are playable now, they just aren't as amazing as a lot of people think they are, same with the dakkajet.
We are sitting here talking about how good the DJ and Bikes are and the buffs they got....compare them to what most other factions got so far this edition. I mean hell...Eradicators. A unit that will usually make its points back in 2 turns at most. Ad mech...not even going to go there, Drukhari...wow. Even SOB got some crazy good stuff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And just to clarify, i am not saying I want orkz to have broken OP stuff, it would just have been nice if we got some units that were just good without having a lot of stuff have to happen.
Ehh and I ' ve found that Koptas needs to be min. 3 in squad. So no more single kopta units.
Anyway, I' ve started to play with the buggy list for new codex. What I see:
- one DS patrol with kommandos, stormboyz and some troos for obsec tasks is obvious solution
- one outrider (or two) with buggies from another clan is also obvious. One reroll is useless for buggies.
- but what clan ? freebootas or Badmoonz. +6 range can really help, because range was always the issue with the buggies. +1 to hit (stackable) works however also very good. I' ll see. Both are in any case better than DS.
- I have a serious doubt about my beloved SJD. You have no guarantee of telyporting and the gun lost most of it' s rerolls and DDD. I 'm really not sure I gonna use it anymore. It becames unreliable. Guaranteed telyport was something you can plan about. 50% chance + 50% chance of MW is a lotery. Not a game plan.
- Buggies needs to be supported with something hard hitting and longer lasting in CC. Something to be chewed by opponent to protect the buggies. Now I use deffrolla BW + MANz. I think about to switch them to 2-3 Mega Dreads. you get a couple of huge machines benefiting well from new Ramshackle, adding 1 dice to charge (so 4 dice discard lowest on Ramming speed!) and bunch of autohitting 5/0/1 benefiting nicely from speedwaaaaagh now. And they are cool models - If I run the buggies as Freebootas, Dreads benefit from +1 in shooting and in CC (sometimes…) in the same time and you can put a Freeboota obsec-deniing banner on one of them.
- The coolest combination however is take another patrol as Goffs and have take Ghazzy + 2x Mega Dreads. Because Megadreads benefit nicely from Goff clan abilities and Great Waagh. You can get 7 attacks hitting on 3+, every hit 6 = another hit, S16 AP-3 D3+3 dmg
koooaei wrote: Not sure about koptas. They just seem to be too expensive compared to buggies.
I feel like koptas are an interesting in between half-way point as a unit between bikers and buggies. They don't have as massive a footprint as buggies do they can pull off Engage on All Fronts easier with their deep strike or their movement to relocate to different parts of the board (especially since we can no longer auto-teleport the shokkjump dragstas) while also still providing decent fire support versus the throwaway unit that DS Stormboyz kind of are. Ramshackle goes particularly well with them since it makes stuff like HB not very efficient in killing them. Their 6 attacks per model is also deceptively good at clearing through chaff units in the backfield, so I feel like a unit of 3 held in reserve is a solid choice for a buggy list.
For me, deffkoptas do not have enough tank profile for 2D3 rokkits. They have a lot of damage but cost too much for dying to fast. In other words, they are glasscannon and are not realiable in hard matches
I'd consider a unit of 3 koptas, if anything just for their deep strike abiltiy.
Two outriders and a patrol IMHO are really too much, unless someone wants to play something like 10 solo buggies, koptas and bikes. I'll soon try out a goffs patrol and a bad moons outrider with 3 solo scrapjets, 2x5 bikes and 3 koptas as fast attacks. Big mek with tellyport blasta and dead shiny shoota will lead the detachment, no way I'm taking someone else as the bad moons leader .
I agree with Tomsug, buggies alone can't do all the work. They need some heavy hitters in close combat to back them up. Meganobz, dreads or squig riders look all ok for that job.
If Big Krumpaz meganobz can take a <Klan> BW I'd definitely consider them as they're my favorite models.
Beardedragon wrote: So when you do outrider detatchment, what klan do you go for, with solo buggies?
Im unsure if i should run deathskulls with the nerfs they had, so i thought maybe i should go for Freebootas instead?
I'm still using deff skulls as I have a mix of melee and range units and because and protection from mortal wounds actually comes up a lot for me. That said, my crusade force is also locked into deff skulls, so for those games I don't have much choice anyways.
It don't think freebootas are an option for me anyways, it's too easy for it to fall flat on its face against armies like DA or DG despite the great relic and stratagem.
Bad moons are definitely a great option, and the relic is extremely sexy on a wartrike, so I might give them a chance. It worth noting that buggies have wild mix of assault, heavy and dakka weapons now, so the trait might feel very odd to play with as assault weapons don't benefit.
Another clan I'm also going to try is bloodaxes - my army originally had the lore that they were lead by a blood axe warboss, so I might find myself muckin' around a bit with their shenanigans, especially when the new kommandoz become available.
Jidmah wrote: Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.
Wait a second, don't you pay full 3?
[...]
I think Jidmah meant he's only paying 1 more CP over a patrol to get more FA slots to get those single buggies in.
Yeah, this. I want 2-3 patrols anyways to get more trukkboyz/'orrible gits/pyromaniacs, so instead of paying 2 for a patrol, you can also pay 3 for an outrider.
Jidmah wrote: Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.
One outrider is just 6 of them. So to be a real buggy freak, you need patrol + 2x outrider.
Which is super crazy during deploiment
In my experience, the maximum number of buggies (including wartrike) you can utilize on a 60x44 board without causing traffic jams or being unable to deploy some is 8. 2 patrols and an outrider provide you with 10 slots, leaving 3 for stuff like warbikers, koptas or squig riders.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiai wrote: Is there a nice breakdown of the changes from the previous codex to this one? Preferably one that focus on big picture and less details?
I started writing up such a list, but essentially everything has changed. I would just be writing a summary of the codex.
Nora wrote: I hope they fix the Specialist Mobs rule in a way that the Warboss aura still works if the warboss itself is a Specialist Mob.
If so, I belive having a Truk Boy(z) Warboss in Mega Armour looks strong. In the same time the Trukk can be used for some shooting unit like Tankbustas,
I was thinking about this, they probably meant to change the "flash gits" part in the transport rules to "specialist ladz" and failed somewhere along the way. At least that's the fix I'll be suggesting to my gaming group.
Damn, I missed a lot - only just now returning to the game after lockdown etc. (Have games coming up this coming weekend)... and I am just now getting to grips with 9th for the first time.
My initial impression though - a lot of my list got absolutely gutted, lost customization and flexibility.
Key points:
Nobs can't get kustom shootas? I know I can take Kombis but then I can't take melee with them.
Squiggoths + Gargantuan Squiggoth lost weapon options; no lobbas, no zzap guns and in the case of the Garg, lost his big shoota secondaries and got price hiked.
I know we got some cool new units though, so I'm looking at them with my wallet screaming at me
I'm still waiting to see the official model in the wild, but you are probably better off equipping the garg squiggoth like a kill rig and have it count as that.
Jidmah wrote: I'm still waiting to see the official model in the wild, but you are probably better off equipping the garg squiggoth like a kill rig and have it count as that.
I tried to estimate the size of the rig by comparing it to the meganob next to It on the codex picture on p. 47. It seems to be based on a knight/Morkanaut base, so the Garg squig would be far too large. The Normal squiggoth would fit better, but needs more height.
I’m not feeling badmoon buggies.. the mix of weapons on buggies with a bunch of mostly assault options and the lone heavy or Dakka weapon leaves a lot to be desired for the kultur.. sure the extra ap in a 6 is ok.. but I see badmoon mostly benefiting Dakkajets.
I’m leaning toward keeping my buggies in deathskulls mostly cause the reroll is helpful especially on shokkjump dragsta. The 5++ mortal wound save will likely have some chance to worn every game and the objective secured specialist units such as kommandos and stormboys always help.
The other option is evil suns for a buggy list.
The 2” extra movement and 1” advance is nice especially if I add stormboys but my god that warlord trait or follow me lads on a warboss on bike with the evil suns relic backed up with msu stormboys is an insanely strong and fast assault combo.
gungo wrote: I’m not feeling badmoon buggies.. the mix of weapons on buggies with a bunch of mostly assault options and the lone heavy or Dakka weapon leaves a lot to be desired for the kultur.. sure the extra ap in a 6 is ok.. but I see badmoon mostly benefiting Dakkajets.
I’m leaning toward keeping my buggies in deathskulls mostly cause the reroll is helpful especially on shokkjump dragsta. The 5++ mortal wound save will likely have some chance to worn every game and the objective secured specialist units such as kommandos and stormboys always help.
The other option is evil suns for a buggy list.
The 2” extra movement and 1” advance is nice especially if I add stormboys but my god that warlord trait or follow me lads on a warboss on bike with the evil suns relic backed up with msu stormboys is an insanely strong and fast assault combo.
i feel warbikers are the optimal choice for bad moons over a dakka jet
-1 to hit like a dakka jet
per 100pts more attacks than a dakka jet 8x 5/3 dakka vs 4x6/4 dakka
more wounds than a dakka jet per 100 pts 13 vs 12
same save 4+
not a vehicle (less of a liability)
ability to charge and melee
they are core
can take objectives
Otto Weston wrote: Damn, I missed a lot - only just now returning to the game after lockdown etc. (Have games coming up this coming weekend)... and I am just now getting to grips with 9th for the first time.
My initial impression though - a lot of my list got absolutely gutted, lost customization and flexibility.
Key points:
Nobs can't get kustom shootas? I know I can take Kombis but then I can't take melee with them.
Squiggoths + Gargantuan Squiggoth lost weapon options; no lobbas, no zzap guns and in the case of the Garg, lost his big shoota secondaries and got price hiked.
I know we got some cool new units though, so I'm looking at them with my wallet screaming at me
Nobz haven't had Kustom Shootas since the 8e book.
yeah kustom shoota was an index thing, which happened right before they did the whole "No model no rules" bs
Which is annoying because dual-kustom shoota nobz was actually pretty decent sounding. Since their melee was just 1 more attack it made sense to switch to 4 shots.
gungo wrote: I’m not feeling badmoon buggies.. the mix of weapons on buggies with a bunch of mostly assault options and the lone heavy or Dakka weapon leaves a lot to be desired for the kultur.. sure the extra ap in a 6 is ok.. but I see badmoon mostly benefiting Dakkajets.
I’m leaning toward keeping my buggies in deathskulls mostly cause the reroll is helpful especially on shokkjump dragsta. The 5++ mortal wound save will likely have some chance to worn every game and the objective secured specialist units such as kommandos and stormboys always help.
The other option is evil suns for a buggy list.
The 2” extra movement and 1” advance is nice especially if I add stormboys but my god that warlord trait or follow me lads on a warboss on bike with the evil suns relic backed up with msu stormboys is an insanely strong and fast assault combo.
i feel warbikers are the optimal choice for bad moons over a dakka jet
-1 to hit like a dakka jet
per 100pts more attacks than a dakka jet 8x 5/3 dakka vs 4x6/4 dakka
more wounds than a dakka jet per 100 pts 13 vs 12
same save 4+
not a vehicle (less of a liability)
ability to charge and melee
they are core
can take objectives
Warbikers are decent
But on on pure damage your number lack the all the upgrades that make Dakkajet so efficient.
You can add 2 more super shootas for 20 pts that’s a 50% increase in its base damage.
You can add more Dakka for 15 pts but I don’t think it’s anywhere near as efficient.
So a Dakkajet is really 6x 6/4 which is the only way you should take it for 120pts.
So even if I compared a 120pt Dakkajet to 5x warbikers at 125pts that’s 6x 6/4 compared to 5x 5/3…
Even worse is the Dakkajet has a 36” (42 at badmoons) range compared to a warbikers 18” range meaning you will likely have a hard time getting to within 9in (12in as badmoon) for your extra shoots. I mean 12 is a huge improvement over 9in but that’s only badmoons for warbikers but even with that warbikers dakkaguns have 0 ap compared to super shoota -1 ap.
For pure shooting damage potential I still think Dakkajet wins.. but warbikers are a better unit overall.
Warbikers are decent
But on on pure damage your number lack the all the upgrades that make Dakkajet so efficient.
You can add 2 more super shootas for 20 pts that’s a 50% increase in its base damage.
You can add more Dakka for 15 pts but I don’t think it’s anywhere near as efficient.
So a Dakkajet is really 6x 6/4 which is the only way you should take it for 120pts.
So even if I compared a 120pt Dakkajet to 5x warbikers at 125pts that’s 6x 6/4 compared to 5x 5/3…
Even worse is the Dakkajet has a 36” (42 at badmoons) range compared to a warbikers 18” range meaning you will likely have a hard time getting to within 9in (12in as badmoon) for your extra shoots. I mean 12 is a huge improvement over 9in but that’s only badmoons for warbikers but even with that warbikers dakkaguns have 0 ap compared to super shoota -1 ap.
For pure shooting damage potential I still think Dakkajet wins.. but warbikers are a better unit overall.
The Warbikes would be 10x 5/3 not 5, Each warbike gets 2 of them. Against the most common opponent, T4 3+ save 2 wound.
The Dakkajet is still better in pure dmg output, in Dakka range the Jet kills 36pts of Marines while the Warbikes ALMOST do so as well. During the "Speed Waaagh" The advantage flips to the warbikes because they gain 10 extra shots compared to the Dakkajets 6. In terms of Badmoon potential, you want those warbikes though for the extra wound rolls to try an get the +1 AP.
But again, neither is really stand out amazing...it just appears so when compared to how awful most of the codex is.
1. They need to move to enemy teritory T1 => all enemy weapons fire at them from melta range. Including all the weapons that would stay silence, or not be in melta range because no awailable target…
2. No foots on ground - they can' t take the objectives, cannot do the action and are not counted in much of the secondaries.
This was the reason I skipped them in 9.0 despite I love them. Now they are stronger, but I' m not convinced they are strong enough yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Deffkoptas - I see them interesting as a source of Cloud of Smoke strategem - 5 of them can make a very large footprint. However as I read the strategem again, it' s a stupid idea. Because it works from unit to unit, so killing the Koptas decreasing the size of cloud. It ' a much more better to use it on character covered by Look out Sir!
So, here's my pre-list for the upcoming 1.5k tourney at the end of the month:
Freebootas:
Trike (badskull banner, junk boss 4++)
10 grots ('orrible)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
5 kommandoez
2 skrapjets
Blastajet (tellyportas, 1 supashoota)
Kmk
Megamek (shiny shoota, -1 to wound, kff)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
2 skrapjets
Squigbuggy
Squigbuggy
I'd love to get that 2d kommandoez squad but even if I drop kombi-rokkits on manz and a supashoota on a plane, there's just 40 spare points. The only option is to, perhaps, also take a boost blastajet instead of a squigbuggy. But I feel that 1 squigbuggy is not enough to trigger that +1 from hiding small units reliably.
Vineheart01 wrote: yeah kustom shoota was an index thing, which happened right before they did the whole "No model no rules" bs
Which is annoying because dual-kustom shoota nobz was actually pretty decent sounding. Since their melee was just 1 more attack it made sense to switch to 4 shots.
It's also annoying because GW actually released nobz with kustom shoota. Ok, they're old, OOP since ages, and in metal but they still share the current faction's aesthetics, we're not talking about rogue trader orks. I have a few of those.
-1 to hit like a dakka jet
per 100pts more attacks than a dakka jet 8x 5/3 dakka vs 4x6/4 dakka
more wounds than a dakka jet per 100 pts 13 vs 12
same save 4+
not a vehicle (less of a liability)
ability to charge and melee
they are core
can take objectives
Plane is also one single model, which means it can die to just a couple of lucky anti tank hits.
The highest damage source with buff stacking is Warbikers. The stack of Bad moons/specialist, speed waagg and some kustom jobs make Warbikers, Buggies, Dakkajetd and Wazbom Blastajets very good. Then you can have 1000pt of Goffs With Squigs for melee dmg.
Beardedragon wrote: So when you do outrider detatchment, what klan do you go for, with solo buggies?
Im unsure if i should run deathskulls with the nerfs they had, so i thought maybe i should go for Freebootas instead?
I'm still using deff skulls as I have a mix of melee and range units and because and protection from mortal wounds actually comes up a lot for me. That said, my crusade force is also locked into deff skulls, so for those games I don't have much choice anyways.
It don't think freebootas are an option for me anyways, it's too easy for it to fall flat on its face against armies like DA or DG despite the great relic and stratagem.
Bad moons are definitely a great option, and the relic is extremely sexy on a wartrike, so I might give them a chance. It worth noting that buggies have wild mix of assault, heavy and dakka weapons now, so the trait might feel very odd to play with as assault weapons don't benefit.
Another clan I'm also going to try is bloodaxes - my army originally had the lore that they were lead by a blood axe warboss, so I might find myself muckin' around a bit with their shenanigans, especially when the new kommandoz become available.
Jidmah wrote: Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.
Wait a second, don't you pay full 3? [...]
I think Jidmah meant he's only paying 1 more CP over a patrol to get more FA slots to get those single buggies in.
Yeah, this. I want 2-3 patrols anyways to get more trukkboyz/'orrible gits/pyromaniacs, so instead of paying 2 for a patrol, you can also pay 3 for an outrider.
Jidmah wrote: Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.
One outrider is just 6 of them. So to be a real buggy freak, you need patrol + 2x outrider.
Which is super crazy during deploiment
In my experience, the maximum number of buggies (including wartrike) you can utilize on a 60x44 board without causing traffic jams or being unable to deploy some is 8. 2 patrols and an outrider provide you with 10 slots, leaving 3 for stuff like warbikers, koptas or squig riders.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiai wrote: Is there a nice breakdown of the changes from the previous codex to this one? Preferably one that focus on big picture and less details?
I started writing up such a list, but essentially everything has changed. I would just be writing a summary of the codex.
Nora wrote: I hope they fix the Specialist Mobs rule in a way that the Warboss aura still works if the warboss itself is a Specialist Mob. If so, I belive having a Truk Boy(z) Warboss in Mega Armour looks strong. In the same time the Trukk can be used for some shooting unit like Tankbustas,
I was thinking about this, they probably meant to change the "flash gits" part in the transport rules to "specialist ladz" and failed somewhere along the way. At least that's the fix I'll be suggesting to my gaming group.
The relic from bad moon cant go on the deffkilla. You mean da best armor teef can buy? the warlord trait? The relic is the weapon that replaces a kustom shoota. Wartrikes dont have kustom shootas.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: All jets suffer two types of problems -
1. They need to move to enemy teritory T1 => all enemy weapons fire at them from melta range. Including all the weapons that would stay silence, or not be in melta range because no awailable target…
2. No foots on ground - they can' t take the objectives, cannot do the action and are not counted in much of the secondaries.
This was the reason I skipped them in 9.0 despite I love them. Now they are stronger, but I' m not convinced they are strong enough yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Deffkoptas - I see them interesting as a source of Cloud of Smoke strategem - 5 of them can make a very large footprint. However as I read the strategem again, it' s a stupid idea. Because it works from unit to unit, so killing the Koptas decreasing the size of cloud. It ' a much more better to use it on character covered by Look out Sir!
i dont agree you have to fly in to enemy territory turn 1.
If you place the plane at the corner of your own deployment zone you can fly towards the other edge of your deployment zone while angling it towards the middle a bit. that way you should still be far away enough for meltas to not be a problem id say
Beardedragon wrote: The relic from bad moon cant go on the deffkilla. You mean da best armor teef can buy? the warlord trait? The relic is the weapon that replaces a kustom shoota. Wartrikes dont have kustom shootas.
Yes, sorry. My brain somehow auto-corrected the armor to be relic.
How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?
Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.
270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?
The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition
Clan Kultur: Goffs
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Goffs Profiles: . Goffs: Description:- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.
Warboss [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Goffs . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Proper Killy: Description:- Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic
- Each time this WARLORD makes a melee attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 110pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Specialist Mob, Faction: Trukk Boyz . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Trukk Boyz . Boss Nob [26pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [8pts], Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Choppa, Power Klaw, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Trukk Boyz: Description:BOYZ, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the TRUKK BOYZ keyword and the following ability:
Trukk Boyz: A TRUKK BOYZ unit can disembark from a TRUKK even if that TRUKK has made a Normal Move this phase. While any TRUKK BOYZ units are embarked upon a TRUKK, each time that TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 120pts] +
Killa Kans [7 PL, 120pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz . Abilities:Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw Profiles: . Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 90pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Shoota, Fortress on Wheels [1 PL, 20pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Fortress on Wheels, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Fortress on Wheels: Description:TRUKK or WAGON model only. This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Boyz will probably hold back objective while the trukk with nobz + warboss go get whatever the opponent is sitting on and the kanz will teleport either in response of an enemy teleport or on another objective I need. sounds good?
Beardedragon wrote: The relic from bad moon cant go on the deffkilla. You mean da best armor teef can buy? the warlord trait? The relic is the weapon that replaces a kustom shoota. Wartrikes dont have kustom shootas.
Yes, sorry. My brain somehow auto-corrected the armor to be relic.
indeed. why on earth would an armor not be a relic? i dont complain but it is odd.
koooaei wrote: So, here's my pre-list for the upcoming 1.5k tourney at the end of the month:
Freebootas:
Trike (badskull banner, junk boss 4++)
10 grots ('orrible)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
5 kommandoez
2 skrapjets
Blastajet (tellyportas, 1 supashoota)
Kmk
Megamek (shiny shoota, -1 to wound, kff)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
2 skrapjets
Squigbuggy
Squigbuggy
I'd love to get that 2d kommandoez squad but even if I drop kombi-rokkits on manz and a supashoota on a plane, there's just 40 spare points. The only option is to, perhaps, also take a boost blastajet instead of a squigbuggy. But I feel that 1 squigbuggy is not enough to trigger that +1 from hiding small units reliably.
You have too many specialist mobs, if I'm reading it right? Two detachments, but you have two trukkboy MANz mobs and the 'orrible Gitz Grots.
One good point in favor of the killa kanz though is the new secondary, Stomp em good. Because Grot units do count towards what we kill, but they dont count towards the number of units killed by enemies.
So 5 killa kanz killing 5 space marines, and in the space marine dudes turn then kills the 5 killa kanz he effectively killed 0 for the sake of that secondary.
On the other hand it sounds like a bad secondary because it sounds super difficult to really max out. You wont be killing anyone turn 1 even, and orks in my experience die in troves.
Before our new codex, i would rutinely lose more orks than my enemy space marine player did during combat even at close range because my attacks bounced off his armor saves. I feel like any secondary requiring us to actually stay alive one way or the other isnt one i can see being useful.
But i have yet to have a new codex game, so maybe ill stand positively corrected.
Anyone tried Mega Big Mek with Da Dead Shiny Shoota? I use one (+ KFF) to escort mobs for Primaroes/Green Tide/Shiny Bitz. As a BA he does alot more for me with his 14 shot hitting at 4+ St5 Ap1 D2 gun than the old Mek did. Suddenly he feels like a type of threat that fits his role over the old CP overloaded melee guy.
I do feel like wonder if a Big Mek with Da Ded Shiny Shoota and the Tellyporta blasta would be a good candidate for the Opportunist WL trait, the only problem being him a slowpoke but I presume you would throw in him one of the transports in a buggy list.
So, I got to try out my grotvolushun list and I think my strategy of 'proxy the AOS squig units as more competitive beast snaggas/stormboyz to offset the bad stinky grot units' will work fairly well.
We played a smaller game, insisting on the regulation board size (boooo) and while I wasn't up against a fully competitive list, it had enough competitive elements in it that I was pleased the game wound up so close. My opponent had eradicators, a plasma redemptor, plasma inceptors, a gravis captain and min intercessors as troops. I brought 3x rokkit kanz, 10 gretchins, a weirdboy, the mangler squigs as a beastboss on squigosaur, 10x boingrot 'stormboyz', 20x squig herd 'beast snagga boyz', a waagh banner nob and a kustom mega kannon.
Long story short, i got first turn and punched it up the board with a first turn waagh, totally underestimated just how tanky everything space marine is now vs my choppas, and got completely hosed by morale turn 1 (literally lost 5/10 stormboyz), then my opponent responded by falling back with his eradicators and shooting my Killa Kanz outside of melta range and rolled 6-6-6 for the damage on his 3 successful wounds.
what followed after that was basically the beastboss, the weirdboy and the snagga boyz acting as 'the miracle makers' and rocking some truly absurd rolls. Weirdboy managed to bonk all 3 plasma inceptors with 3 failed saves and 3 rolls of 3 for damage, beastboss got thru the SM captain's 3+ invuln from I think a warlord trait by chomping him for 6MWs with the squig, and then later on a single wound left nearly entirely one-shot the redemptor dread who had 11 wounds remaining at the start of the fight.
game came down to just the nob from the snagga boyz, 2 gretchins and the boss with 1 wound vs 3 intercessors with a powerfist sergeant, and the intercessors charged the boss and I just did. not. have the cp for Orks is Never Beaten, I'd used my second-last one to reroll a wound so the dread would go down.
So, I think that mostly settles it for what I'll do with the grots going forward: use proxied beast snaggas to carry the weaker grot units somewhat.
koooaei wrote: So, here's my pre-list for the upcoming 1.5k tourney at the end of the month:
Freebootas:
Trike (badskull banner, junk boss 4++)
10 grots ('orrible)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
5 kommandoez
2 skrapjets
Blastajet (tellyportas, 1 supashoota)
Kmk
Megamek (shiny shoota, -1 to wound, kff)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
2 skrapjets
Squigbuggy
Squigbuggy
I'd love to get that 2d kommandoez squad but even if I drop kombi-rokkits on manz and a supashoota on a plane, there's just 40 spare points. The only option is to, perhaps, also take a boost blastajet instead of a squigbuggy. But I feel that 1 squigbuggy is not enough to trigger that +1 from hiding small units reliably.
You have too many specialist mobs, if I'm reading it right? Two detachments, but you have two trukkboy MANz mobs and the 'orrible Gitz Grots.
If I get it right, there' ls no limit to number of specialists per detachment. And same type of specialists must only be unique within one detachment. Take a next one, and get a second trukkboyz Unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah, I got it wrong, only 1 unit per detachment, so, grots are just regular then.
koooaei wrote: So, here's my pre-list for the upcoming 1.5k tourney at the end of the month:
Freebootas:
Trike (badskull banner, junk boss 4++)
10 grots ('orrible)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
5 kommandoez
2 skrapjets
Blastajet (tellyportas, 1 supashoota)
Kmk
Megamek (shiny shoota, -1 to wound, kff)
3 meganobz (trukkboyz, kombi-rokkits) in a trukk
2 skrapjets
Squigbuggy
Squigbuggy
I'd love to get that 2d kommandoez squad but even if I drop kombi-rokkits on manz and a supashoota on a plane, there's just 40 spare points. The only option is to, perhaps, also take a boost blastajet instead of a squigbuggy. But I feel that 1 squigbuggy is not enough to trigger that +1 from hiding small units reliably.
You have too many specialist mobs, if I'm reading it right? Two detachments, but you have two trukkboy MANz mobs and the 'orrible Gitz Grots.
If I get it right, there' ls no limit to number of specialists per detachment. And same type of specialists must only be unique within one detachment. Take a next one, and get a second trukkboyz Unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah, I got it wrong, only 1 unit per detachment, so, grots are just regular then.
There is a limit it is one per detachment. As explained in the main paragraph section of specialist mobs
Clan Kultur: Goffs
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Goffs Profiles: . Goffs: Description:- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.
Warboss [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Goffs . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Proper Killy: Description:- Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic
- Each time this WARLORD makes a melee attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 110pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Specialist Mob, Faction: Trukk Boyz . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Trukk Boyz . Boss Nob [26pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [8pts], Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Choppa, Power Klaw, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Trukk Boyz: Description:BOYZ, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the TRUKK BOYZ keyword and the following ability:
Trukk Boyz: A TRUKK BOYZ unit can disembark from a TRUKK even if that TRUKK has made a Normal Move this phase. While any TRUKK BOYZ units are embarked upon a TRUKK, each time that TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 120pts] +
Killa Kans [7 PL, 120pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz . Abilities:Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw Profiles: . Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 90pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Shoota, Fortress on Wheels [1 PL, 20pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Fortress on Wheels, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Fortress on Wheels: Description:TRUKK or WAGON model only. This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Boyz will probably hold back objective while the trukk with nobz + warboss go get whatever the opponent is sitting on and the kanz will teleport either in response of an enemy teleport or on another objective I need. sounds good?
Brutal but Kunnin' is strictly better than proper killy, you get more attacks from it.
On average with killchoppa and 5 attacks you would score 2.86 unsaved wounds against MEQs, which means you get 2 extra attacks on average. It's even better if you take the attack squig since it does not specify the weapon you make the extra attacks with.
Tellyporta counts as moved so those kans are hitting on 5's when they arrive. One Skorcha does as much damage as two Grotzookas and is an assault weapon that isn't affected by your normal move/teleport. Three Grotzookas at BS5 does 1.29 wounds on MEQs, one Skorcha does 1.15. So with two skorchas you could do about an extra wound versus three Grotzookas coming out of tellyporta.
Clan Kultur: Goffs
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Goffs Profiles: . Goffs: Description:- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.
Warboss [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Goffs . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Proper Killy: Description:- Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic
- Each time this WARLORD makes a melee attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 110pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Specialist Mob, Faction: Trukk Boyz . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Trukk Boyz . Boss Nob [26pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [8pts], Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Choppa, Power Klaw, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Trukk Boyz: Description:BOYZ, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the TRUKK BOYZ keyword and the following ability:
Trukk Boyz: A TRUKK BOYZ unit can disembark from a TRUKK even if that TRUKK has made a Normal Move this phase. While any TRUKK BOYZ units are embarked upon a TRUKK, each time that TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 120pts] +
Killa Kans [7 PL, 120pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz . Abilities:Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw Profiles: . Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 90pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Shoota, Fortress on Wheels [1 PL, 20pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Fortress on Wheels, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Fortress on Wheels: Description:TRUKK or WAGON model only. This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Boyz will probably hold back objective while the trukk with nobz + warboss go get whatever the opponent is sitting on and the kanz will teleport either in response of an enemy teleport or on another objective I need. sounds good?
Brutal but Kunnin' is strictly better than proper killy, you get more attacks from it.
On average with killchoppa and 5 attacks you would score 2.86 unsaved wounds against MEQs, which means you get 2 extra attacks on average. It's even better if you take the attack squig since it does not specify the weapon you make the extra attacks with.
Tellyporta counts as moved so those kans are hitting on 5's when they arrive. One Skorcha does as much damage as two Grotzookas and is an assault weapon that isn't affected by your normal move/teleport. Three Grotzookas at BS5 does 1.29 wounds on MEQs, one Skorcha does 1.15. So with two skorchas you could do about an extra wound versus three Grotzookas coming out of tellyporta.
Killa Kanz don't receive the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting with heavy weapons because they're vehicles, so he'll be hitting on 4's unless he's firing through dense cover or something. Though I do wonder if Big Shootas are better than Grotzookas in most instances due to SpeedWAAAGH! benefiting them more unless you're against a lot of T3 or T5 models in your meta.
Clan Kultur: Goffs
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Goffs Profiles: . Goffs: Description:- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.
Warboss [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Goffs . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Proper Killy: Description:- Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic
- Each time this WARLORD makes a melee attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 110pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Specialist Mob, Faction: Trukk Boyz . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Trukk Boyz . Boss Nob [26pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [8pts], Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Choppa, Power Klaw, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Trukk Boyz: Description:BOYZ, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the TRUKK BOYZ keyword and the following ability:
Trukk Boyz: A TRUKK BOYZ unit can disembark from a TRUKK even if that TRUKK has made a Normal Move this phase. While any TRUKK BOYZ units are embarked upon a TRUKK, each time that TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 120pts] +
Killa Kans [7 PL, 120pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz . Abilities:Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw Profiles: . Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 90pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Shoota, Fortress on Wheels [1 PL, 20pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Fortress on Wheels, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Fortress on Wheels: Description:TRUKK or WAGON model only. This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Boyz will probably hold back objective while the trukk with nobz + warboss go get whatever the opponent is sitting on and the kanz will teleport either in response of an enemy teleport or on another objective I need. sounds good?
Brutal but Kunnin' is strictly better than proper killy, you get more attacks from it.
On average with killchoppa and 5 attacks you would score 2.86 unsaved wounds against MEQs, which means you get 2 extra attacks on average. It's even better if you take the attack squig since it does not specify the weapon you make the extra attacks with.
Tellyporta counts as moved so those kans are hitting on 5's when they arrive. One Skorcha does as much damage as two Grotzookas and is an assault weapon that isn't affected by your normal move/teleport. Three Grotzookas at BS5 does 1.29 wounds on MEQs, one Skorcha does 1.15. So with two skorchas you could do about an extra wound versus three Grotzookas coming out of tellyporta.
Killa Kanz don't receive the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting with heavy weapons because they're vehicles, so he'll be hitting on 4's unless he's firing through dense cover or something. Though I do wonder if Big Shootas are better than Grotzookas in most instances due to SpeedWAAAGH! benefiting them more unless you're against a lot of T3 or T5 models in your meta.
Killa kans are great i think big shootas are better becasue you can use them in combat, another benefit of them being vehicles. Grotzookas have the blast keyword which means you can't use them in combat, rockets are too expensive :p.
I suppose it depends on what you are doing with them.
If Teleport and charge tactic i would use Big Shootas for reasons above.
im seriously hoping they faq it to fix the rokkit kanz price.
Absolutely ridiculous they cost 15pts on that unit. 40ppm killakanz with bigshootas doesnt feel bad at all, 55pts with D3 rokkits...pfft
Vineheart01 wrote: im seriously hoping they faq it to fix the rokkit kanz price.
Absolutely ridiculous they cost 15pts on that unit. 40ppm killakanz with bigshootas doesnt feel bad at all, 55pts with D3 rokkits...pfft
Yeah, they REALLY overvalued the D3 rokkit shots they got, considering they don't have klan kulturs.
Even if they had kultures i would say thats ridiculous. Really only 2 kultures benefits the rokkit variant, neither really all that much (Deathskullz for a reroll, Badmoonz for reach and potential +1AP). (edit: 3, freeboota +1 to hit i guess is significant)
They'd benefit more from Goff or Snakebites than they would the shooty kultures.
Theres several examples of GW not factoring army rules when determining a unit's price, Gretchin are the most painfully obvious because theyre the only ones DENIED those rules and are still just as expensive as anything else. Which is a really dumb way to write rules when said army-rules are ridiculously potent in most cases.
Vineheart01 wrote: Even if they had kultures i would say thats ridiculous. Really only 2 kultures benefits the rokkit variant, neither really all that much (Deathskullz for a reroll, Badmoonz for reach and potential +1AP). (edit: 3, freeboota +1 to hit i guess is significant)
They'd benefit more from Goff or Snakebites than they would the shooty kultures.
Theres several examples of GW not factoring army rules when determining a unit's price, Gretchin are the most painfully obvious because theyre the only ones DENIED those rules and are still just as expensive as anything else. Which is a really dumb way to write rules when said army-rules are ridiculously potent in most cases.
Based on the treatment of gloomspite gitz (even the new hobgrots for the new Kruleboyz are currently garbage) in AoS and grots in 40k, I feel GW just isn't a big fan of grots being effective units. They're kinda there for jokes and giggles, not as an actual threat. I figure they've only treated Mek Gunz relatively well because they're more weapon than grot, and they're expensive to buy per kit (definitely when compared to the gretchin box) so there's more monetary incentive to push them as good weapons platforms.
While the obvious answer to the following is probably "personal preference," I would like a poll of opinions on Speed Waaagh build versus regular waaagh.
I previously shut my mind out on speed waaagh as it only affects vehicles, but I started thinking about the buggy spam people are proposing as well as bikes, and, well, speed waaagh seems to affect more of the power units.
I'm actually of the impression that this codex is written with the implicit intent of discouraging infantry, with the power units on snaggas being cavalry and a heavy transport, both with focus towards melee, and the power units on vanilla orks being things like buggies and bikes. After all, Waaagh only affects core. While it's great for bikes, doesn't it fall flat with buggies and Dread heavy lists?
Now that I'm taking a look at Speed Waaagh, I'm reevaluating vehicles and bike lists and I feel like they could be the way to go. I just don't know if I want to buy all the models.
I think Speedwaaagh is far superior than Waaagh as AP-1 can be massive compared to +1A. I feel like that boos for the shooting phase is much more needed than a boost in combat.
Starting to think in Big Mek with KFF and Kustom Shoota relic, for 6++ and some damage for my buggie detachment
For me, Squiggs are the screen that do not let you apreciate the codex correctly. Squigs are all very good units to have and can dominate the board, but they are absolutely useless against the actual top armies (Sisters, Drukhari, AdMech). They are good against Custodes, DG and MEQ for his super high punish capabilities, his tankiness and his fast mobility, but they are only good in his physical profile, they lack enough mechanisms to front AdMech rangers, Drukhari disactivations or Sisters firepower.
I think we need buggies, bikes, Dakkajets, Blastajets, they are the right answer against Sisters, they are OK against AdMech and they are the nightmare itself against Drukhari.
Blackie wrote: I think Speedwaaagh is far superior than Waaagh as AP-1 can be massive compared to +1A. I feel like that boos for the shooting phase is much more needed than a boost in combat.
Agreed. Especially for some factions that ignore AP-1 or AP-2, the push into AP-3 or better can really make what shots that land stick, and it gives a lot of other AP0 weapons like Big Shootas teeth for chipping through wounds they would normally bounce off of. The extra shot bonus can also make a pretty big difference when you've leveraged enough Dakka weapons in your army, like Dakkjets, Warbikers, and Scrapjets.
With trukkboyz being a thing and the OG green tide archetype as a format dead, I feel like the mobility aspect of advance and charge from a WAAAGH! is only really relevant for warbikers being able to move 20" and charging. Other than that, while the extra attack is nice, all it does IMO is make up for the fact that large units of boyz no longer have access to +1A from having 20+ guys. I feel like you'll only really use it as a result of taking Ghazzy since I feel in most cases you would use it in a Goffs heavy list and at that point you want Ghazzy too in most instances so you'll get both anyways.
Blackie wrote: I think Speedwaaagh is far superior than Waaagh as AP-1 can be massive compared to +1A. I feel like that boos for the shooting phase is much more needed than a boost in combat.
Concur on Speedwaagh!. Da Big Race is also "+1A" but for many guns. Like Big Shootas on Planes, Scrapjets, Dragstas plus Biker Dakkaguns. +1AP on top of that is a really good game opener.
I´m starting to see a strategy of a mixed army in three layers; the screening layer of Kommandos and Snikrot, the fighting layer of a Buggies, Transports and Bikes plus the final scoring layer of Boyz, Meks and Grotz.
Regular Waaagh can still be ok if you want a full mellee force. It's feasible but buggies are just so strong ATM and more and more armies are not afraid of our mellee, you do want to take loads of buggies and other shooty stuff. And having taken a bunch of vehicles you end up needing speed waagh anywayz. But if you want a list with all the elements, it means you're probably playing large games. And than you might take ghaz to get both.
However, if you want both waaghs to be as effective as possible, you need your mellee elements to be able to charge 1st turn. Otherwise, they're not doing anything the most important turn in the game - where the outcome is usually decided. Luckily, we have a number of 1st turn charge elements. Trukkboyz, stormboyz, bikers, 1 da jumping squad.
However, I must admit that the better our shooting gets, the less you need your mellee as it's quite mediocre and unreliable by today's standards.
I think, as all of you, Speedwaagh is insane because it stacks very well with our stronger units of the codex.
With smaller boards in 9th, you can go anywhere with a lot of units atm. Maybe you cannot charge with 100% fiablity, but with ramming speed you've got enough
SpeedWaagh is definitely superior IF you are heavy bike/vehicle orientated.
If you are transport orientated or beastsnagga based, no its terrible. Remember currently as it reads it does not affect embarked infantry, even though it feels like it should.
Why choose which Waagh take both :p barring any major faq changes, warboss on bike nerfs, or better stuff in the campaign book I’m likely going to play something like this.
However, I must admit that the better our shooting gets, the less you need your mellee as it's quite mediocre and unreliable by today's standards.
To challenge the point for sake of argument, what about the Squigosaur and Beasthog riders? Snagga cavalry appears to have some serious hitting power.
By point of comparison.
A beasthog sits at 25 PPM and carries 5 S6 AP-2 2 D attacks
A nob with Big Choppa sits at 21 PPM and carries 3 S7 AP-1 2 D attacks
Nobs are doggak by comparison. To add insult to injury, Beasthog has twice the base movement speed, +1 W and +1 T with a 6++.
A Squigosaur with BBK and a Killchoppa is legitimately terrifying in combat. 5 base attacks that get a rerun at S12, and 3 additional attacks at S7 and damage 3. Alternately, you could build one with the Mantle and Proper Killy for 7 S8 AP-4 D2 attacks on the charge plus the 3 attacks from the squig jaws.
With Goffs, both of the above are capable of quite a lot in comparison to, say, Warbikers, which are anemic by comparison in combat. You can also get an extra attack on the Waaagh, plus exploding 6's, +1 to wound with Snakebites, +1 damage on squig attacks with beast relic that fits easily on a beast rig.
For reference, a squighog rider at base puts out about the following:
Spoiler:
1.43 unsaved wounds per model (substantially more than a PK nob) at 2 damage for 25 PPM
With Snakebites:
1.8 unsaved wounds
With Goffs:
1.43 with a 5/6 chance at exploding hit
A unit of 3 in aura range of the boss with snakebites:
2.27 * 3 = 6.8 wounds at 2 damage each for a mere 75 points alongside 145 points for the boss.
That said, I have heard they have big bases and are clunky to get around terrain, and only 10" movement speed means you'd have to maneuver them effectively to get them in combat.
Is it really time to dump combat when we have snagga options like these?
Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.
Competitive: Ramming Speed - 2CP same as before. roll 3D6 for charge, inflict mortals on a 2+.
Extra Gubbinz - 1CP honestly one of the best ones we have. Lets you take extra relics.
Big Boss - 1CP same as Extra gubbinz except warlord traits for other characters. AWESOME.
Tellyporta - 2CP same as always. You can tellyporta any unit you want except Monsters and 20PR+
Good: Hit'em harder - 2CP Meganobz gain +1Dmg
Orkz is Never Beaten - 2CP NERF This now lets a character fight if they hadnt this turn, it used to allow the character to fight twice if it died after swinging.
Cloud of Smoke - 2CP If you are running big groups of speed freakz this is a must use strat. Gives -1 to hit for all speedfreak vehicles within 6' of a selected speed freak vehicle.
Situational: Careen - 1/2CP If you blow up, move 6' towards your opponent before blowing up.
Get Stuck In Ladz - 1/2CP move 3' more in pile in/consolidate.
Tough As Squig Hide - 2CP On Beast snagga models you gain Full Transhuman.
Da Bigger Dey Iz - 2CP +2Dmg for warbosses engaged with Titanic units.
Tide Of Muscle - 1CP ignore negative modifiers to charge range.
Unstoppable Momentum - 1CP this will be used rarely. Lets you charge a 2nd time with a Nob on Smasha Squig if after his initial charge he kills enough enemies with his Mortal wounds to be out of engagement range.
Burn em All - 1CP situational at best, if the enemy clumps together it might be worth it. If you hit the enemy with a Skorcha missile rack you can inflict 1 MW on every unit within 3 of that targeted unit.
More Dakka - 2CP I was really tempted to bump this one DOWN to Hot garbage. Spend 2 CP to let a unit count as being in half range for dakka weapons. I don't see this being useful for 90% of the game, at best it might be used on an max size Alpha strike unit of Warbikers teamed with the SpeedWaaagh.
Former ability: Gun Crazy Show Offs - 2CP Old Flashgitz ability...this is honestly better because it guarantees the second round of shooting, its expensive though.
Cuttin Flames - 1CP This is the old Burna's CC ability.
Tank Busta Bomb - 1CP They took away our Tank Busta bombs and turned it into a strat that lets 1 model in a unit use a single attack in CC to do 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits. Its not terrible for 1CP but compared to what we used to do with Tank busta bombs (grenade strat and 10D3 Rokkitz) its kind of crap.
Hot garbage: Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.
Grot Shields - 2CP Similar to old grot shields except only works with 1 unit of grotz. Adding to that, its too expensive and the grots themselves are too expensive. I don't see Orkz fielding any infantry units big/expensive enough to justify the use of a 50-100pt sacrificial unit.
Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.
Snagga Grapple - 2CP complete garbage, you will never use this. First off you have to use it at the START of your opponents movement phase, and on a 4+ it stops a unit from leaving combat. For 2CP it should have been automatic and even than it would have been questionable.
Ground Shaker Shells - 1CP If you hit a unit with a lobba you can halve their movement next turn and -2 to advance and charge. so incredibly situational that it likely wont be used much at all.
Force Field Boosta - 2CP Former Ability as well, Gain a 5++ for 1 turn on a 9' bubble and than it blows up and you can't use it ever again. If it was relic yes, if it didn't blow up and could be used multiple times per game and was 1Cp...yes, this? No.
Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.
...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.
I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)
We have -1 to hit and 5++ almost army wide for 4 cp. Hard to call it bad, really.
Carreen is also great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For me, best starts are: forcefield boosta, -1 to hit and careen. Will very unlikely use much else cause of cp spent on extra traits, relics and an outside detach
Clan Kultur: Goffs
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Goffs Profiles: . Goffs: Description:- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.
Warboss [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Goffs . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Proper Killy: Description:- Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic
- Each time this WARLORD makes a melee attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 110pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Specialist Mob, Faction: Trukk Boyz . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Trukk Boyz . Boss Nob [26pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [8pts], Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Choppa, Power Klaw, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb . Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Trukk Boyz: Description:BOYZ, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the TRUKK BOYZ keyword and the following ability:
Trukk Boyz: A TRUKK BOYZ unit can disembark from a TRUKK even if that TRUKK has made a Normal Move this phase. While any TRUKK BOYZ units are embarked upon a TRUKK, each time that TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 120pts] +
Killa Kans [7 PL, 120pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz . Abilities:Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit:Killa Kan, Weapon:Grotzooka, Kan Klaw Profiles: . Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 90pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Shoota, Fortress on Wheels [1 PL, 20pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Fortress on Wheels, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Fortress on Wheels: Description:TRUKK or WAGON model only. This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Boyz will probably hold back objective while the trukk with nobz + warboss go get whatever the opponent is sitting on and the kanz will teleport either in response of an enemy teleport or on another objective I need. sounds good?
Brutal but Kunnin' is strictly better than proper killy, you get more attacks from it.
On average with killchoppa and 5 attacks you would score 2.86 unsaved wounds against MEQs, which means you get 2 extra attacks on average. It's even better if you take the attack squig since it does not specify the weapon you make the extra attacks with.
Tellyporta counts as moved so those kans are hitting on 5's when they arrive. One Skorcha does as much damage as two Grotzookas and is an assault weapon that isn't affected by your normal move/teleport. Three Grotzookas at BS5 does 1.29 wounds on MEQs, one Skorcha does 1.15. So with two skorchas you could do about an extra wound versus three Grotzookas coming out of tellyporta.
Like everyone said, kanz dont get -1 after moving because that modifier applies to infantry exclusively. The big shoota arguments do sound solid though so I did change them to big shootas.
I got confused by the "does not specify the extra attacks" but then I realized that you were talking about Brutal but kunnin'. The attack squig is nice in that regard but I would have to give up the 5++ on the trukk which im not too sure about... I would like the trukkboiz to be able to do something at least once in a game before getting utterly destroyed but then again, the trukk is really there just to pseudo tellyport the nobz into the enemy lines so perhaps squighide tyres is better.
However, I must admit that the better our shooting gets, the less you need your mellee as it's quite mediocre and unreliable by today's standards.
To challenge the point for sake of argument, what about the Squigosaur and Beasthog riders? Snagga cavalry appears to have some serious hitting power.
By point of comparison.
A beasthog sits at 25 PPM and carries 5 S6 AP-2 2 D attacks
A nob with Big Choppa sits at 21 PPM and carries 3 S7 AP-1 2 D attacks
Nobs are doggak by comparison. To add insult to injury, Beasthog has twice the base movement speed, +1 W and +1 T with a 6++.
A Squigosaur with BBK and a Killchoppa is legitimately terrifying in combat. 5 base attacks that get a rerun at S12, and 3 additional attacks at S7 and damage 3. Alternately, you could build one with the Mantle and Proper Killy for 7 S8 AP-4 D2 attacks on the charge plus the 3 attacks from the squig jaws.
With Goffs, both of the above are capable of quite a lot in comparison to, say, Warbikers, which are anemic by comparison in combat. You can also get an extra attack on the Waaagh, plus exploding 6's, +1 to wound with Snakebites, +1 damage on squig attacks with beast relic that fits easily on a beast rig.
For reference, a squighog rider at base puts out about the following:
Spoiler:
1.43 unsaved wounds per model (substantially more than a PK nob) at 2 damage for 25 PPM
With Snakebites:
1.8 unsaved wounds
With Goffs:
1.43 with a 5/6 chance at exploding hit
A unit of 3 in aura range of the boss with snakebites:
2.27 * 3 = 6.8 wounds at 2 damage each for a mere 75 points alongside 145 points for the boss.
That said, I have heard they have big bases and are clunky to get around terrain, and only 10" movement speed means you'd have to maneuver them effectively to get them in combat.
Is it really time to dump combat when we have snagga options like these?
Well, yeah, we have some good mellee elements. But they require a separate detachment and take away from freebootas. Another concern is that our mellee can't deal with real mellee from other books as they get to fight first and we get severely crippled before we get to strike. But anyway, an outrider snakebite detach with white squig and 3*5 squighogs or with goff zag and 3*10 stormboyz or some boss, maybe snikrot and 3*10 kommandoez can be decent in a 2k game where you can still get all the shooting you want and use your mellee on a flank.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My problem with mellee is that I'm running freeboota buggies and will simply lack cp for an extra mellee detach. So, I'm sticking with trukkbiyz meganobz as a mediocre mellee element. At least they're fast and can perform actions when needed.
Even though i am still green i am feeling this a lot.
Our melee is average, some one mentioned this, if we focus on shooting, we go into the game with the feeling of inherited disadvantag?
So it feels we are set to lose if we focus on one thing alone?
What i notice is we have a huge access to MW in melee, Relics/abilities/strats and their easy grabs. I am not familiar with other army's but Deffkilla Wartrike/scrapjets comes to mind. The more i play the more i tend to want to use it to max impact, like the old Burna bomber.
In shooting in general feels more like we have to bring schorchas or huge amount of shots or it ain't worth it, like Bikes/Dakkajet/squidbuggies/snazzwagon/schorchadreads/deffkopas.
But maybe i am wrong, i am still learning...
In my local, everyone is mostly shooting army's and i am like one the only one that try's melee, it becomes an uphill trying to play orcs when you can be tabled in 1 turn.
Also i think our infantry is mostly for tar-piting, expecting them to do damage is a bonus so i really like Kommandos in this codex
Anyway, i am just trying to make heads from tail how to build an army that is flexible to approach any threat reasonably but i am finding it challenging.
SemperMortis wrote: Hot garbage: Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.
Gonna jump on this as I think while it's still situational, this stratagem will be more useful than anyone has given it credit for.
It's used after rolling the morale test, which means unlike Insane Bravery you get at least 1 in 6 (possibly higher) opportunity to not spend any CP at all. The core stratagem must be used before finding out if you need to and can only be done once per game, making it a risk to use up front in times when you're likely to pass morale.
If you do fail the morale test then you will lose 1 Ork plus any that fail the combat attrition test. By using Breakin' Heads at this point there's a 1 in 3 chance of being no worse off aside from the CP cost. You always lose a minimum of 1 model anyway, while the stratagem can cost 1, 2, or 3 wounds.
Statistically average CA rolls mean the following:
6 models = 1+1 models lost
12 models = 1+2 models lost
18 models = 1+3 models lost
24 models = 1+4 models lost
So it takes a failed morale check on a unit size larger than 12 before you 'break even' with the worst-case D3 roll from Breakin' Heads. In the most common scenario, the main use for the stratagem will be as a hedge against bad attrition rolls and/or when those rolls can cause you to lose critical mass in a mob. Perhaps a few extra models will ensure winning an prolonged melee, or guarantee you hold a contested objective in the late game. Situational, sure. So why should I dedicate my limited Orky brainspace to remembering this rule exists?
Firstly it inflicts wounds rather than dead models. So after failing a morale test on a multi-wound unit of Squighogs, Warbikes, or Meganobz you're looking at one guaranteed model gone, possibly plus others with some poor luck on CA rolls. Or you can take D3 wounds and have decent chance at not losing any models at all.
On top of this you'd almost definitely want to use Breakin' Heads when an important unit is facing modifiers to combat attrition tests:
With just a -1 modifier you're likely looking at:
6 models = 1+2 models lost
12 models = 1+4 models lost
18 models = 1+6 models lost
24 models = 1+8 models lost
Of course that's just for an average roll, it could well be much worse. I don't think there's anyone reading this who has never managed to roll a majority of 1's and 2's at a critical time.
In a worst-case scenario you can even be looking at -2 or -3 modifiers if nothing is around to grant Mob Rule. Several factions already have access to multiple modifiers on combat attrition tests, or can force nearby enemies to count as being below half unit strength when they're not. Drukhari can even score secondary VPs for each model that flees.
There will undoubtedly be more special rules to interact with enemy morale in future codexes & supplements. While I don't think Breakin' Heads is an auto-use option like some, it can definitely make a difference at the right moment.
SemperMortis wrote: Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.
Competitive: Ramming Speed - 2CP same as before. roll 3D6 for charge, inflict mortals on a 2+.
Extra Gubbinz - 1CP honestly one of the best ones we have. Lets you take extra relics.
Big Boss - 1CP same as Extra gubbinz except warlord traits for other characters. AWESOME.
Tellyporta - 2CP same as always. You can tellyporta any unit you want except Monsters and 20PR+
It's strange that this is one of your top picks to me. Honestly, deep strike now feels so dubious in so many situations given the nature of the micro-board you basically feel like you almost dont get anything out of it at all besides shittier charge rolls. The combo with ramming speed is there, but it is a 4CP combo...
Good: Hit'em harder - 2CP Meganobz gain +1Dmg
Orkz is Never Beaten - 2CP NERF This now lets a character fight if they hadnt this turn, it used to allow the character to fight twice if it died after swinging.
Well, yeah. This was always going to do this after SM had the exact same strat changed.
Cloud of Smoke - 2CP If you are running big groups of speed freakz this is a must use strat. Gives -1 to hit for all speedfreak vehicles within 6' of a selected speed freak vehicle.
Good but it is worth noting that you can also choose to just build around this by including an army of warbikes, boomdakka snazzwagons, and flyers which are all good and all get -1 to hit native. Deffcoptas are really the only must-use unit for this strat and if you're running evil sunz for your freek list, theyre a great candidate for the jsj spell instead to get a big unit jumping out and jumping back behind Obscuring. Food for thought.
Situational: Careen - 1/2CP If you blow up, move 6' towards your opponent before blowing up.
If by "Situational" you mean "Every time I roll for my vehicle to explode, ever" then yeah. It's free mortal wound-estate!
Get Stuck In Ladz - 1/2CP move 3' more in pile in/consolidate.
Tough As Squig Hide - 2CP On Beast snagga models you gain Full Transhuman.
Da Bigger Dey Iz - 2CP +2Dmg for warbosses engaged with Titanic units.
Tide Of Muscle - 1CP ignore negative modifiers to charge range.
Unstoppable Momentum - 1CP this will be used rarely. Lets you charge a 2nd time with a Nob on Smasha Squig if after his initial charge he kills enough enemies with his Mortal wounds to be out of engagement range.
Burn em All - 1CP situational at best, if the enemy clumps together it might be worth it. If you hit the enemy with a Skorcha missile rack you can inflict 1 MW on every unit within 3 of that targeted unit.
More Dakka - 2CP I was really tempted to bump this one DOWN to Hot garbage. Spend 2 CP to let a unit count as being in half range for dakka weapons. I don't see this being useful for 90% of the game, at best it might be used on an max size Alpha strike unit of Warbikers teamed with the SpeedWaaagh.
Former ability: Gun Crazy Show Offs - 2CP Old Flashgitz ability...this is honestly better because it guarantees the second round of shooting, its expensive though.
2CP for a shoot twice is absolutely not too expensive on a unit as powerful as flash gits. I've only run my shooty list once, but this strat was absolutely INSANE basically throughout the game. I left my gits til last as I wanted to get them up to +2 to hit and once I got them there they absolutely deleted a pair of expensive squads for just a couple CP. This is miles better than the old ability which was so unreliable as to never be able to be planned around.
Cuttin Flames - 1CP This is the old Burna's CC ability.
Tank Busta Bomb - 1CP They took away our Tank Busta bombs and turned it into a strat that lets 1 model in a unit use a single attack in CC to do 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits. Its not terrible for 1CP but compared to what we used to do with Tank busta bombs (grenade strat and 10D3 Rokkitz) its kind of crap.
Werent old TBBs 1 in 10 models though? How did you get to 10d3 rokkit shots, ever? The way I see it this strat is great for adding threat to min size boyz squads, which are absolutely the new way to run basically any ork unit you're not planning on dumping strats into, and boyz 100% qualify.
Hot garbage: Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.
Grot Shields - 2CP Similar to old grot shields except only works with 1 unit of grotz. Adding to that, its too expensive and the grots themselves are too expensive. I don't see Orkz fielding any infantry units big/expensive enough to justify the use of a 50-100pt sacrificial unit.
I mean I can only speak for myself but I made fantastic use out of it in my freebootas test run game. Included a couple 20-man units of grots in my list as objective holders/action doers and used GS to protect my Flash Gitz from enemy fire top of 1 and top of 2.
Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.
I mean it sucks that they took an ability away and gave it back but 1cp to reroll 1 die of a charge roll doesnt sound all that bad. Sometimes you roll a 6 and a 1 and you needed an 8 to get in.
Snagga Grapple - 2CP complete garbage, you will never use this. First off you have to use it at the START of your opponents movement phase, and on a 4+ it stops a unit from leaving combat. For 2CP it should have been automatic and even than it would have been questionable.
yep this is basically the worst stratagem ever made. Every single wrong thing that could have been done with it was done - has to be used at the beginning of the phase, has to do with fall back which basically never happens, limited to a single slice of the codex, 2cp AND 50% chance to just...do nothing.
Ground Shaker Shells - 1CP If you hit a unit with a lobba you can halve their movement next turn and -2 to advance and charge. so incredibly situational that it likely wont be used much at all.
only problem I have with it is its YET ANOTHER fething beast snaggaz only fething stratagem. But if I was including one of those dumb kill rigs, which I am not as I am not out here about to support GW's obnoxious tendency to write entire codexes to shove whatever new release wave they've just put out, I'd use it every turn most games.Unless my opponent has absolutely no units that want to move, at all, it seems highly worthwhile to use.
Force Field Boosta - 2CP Former Ability as well, Gain a 5++ for 1 turn on a 9' bubble and than it blows up and you can't use it ever again. If it was relic yes, if it didn't blow up and could be used multiple times per game and was 1Cp...yes, this? No.
If I was using a KFF unit I feel like I'd end up using this tbh. I'd need to be in a situation where including a KFF was just a 30-point bump on my list, as in, I'm including a Morkanaut or a Megamek with the ded shiny shoota, but then I can easily see with the firepower present in 9th ed this being a highly effective use of 2cp and 30pts.
The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.
And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…
So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.
Regarding strats
Considering I personally think squigbuggies, scrapjets and shockjumps and warboss on bike/wartrike are the better buggies. Cloud of smoke is a phenomenal first round strat.
On the same note I don’t think Kff boosta is complete garbage. It’s bad don’t get me wrong just because the cost of the unit, the kff, the 2cp, and the stop working is so high for a 5++ that it’s only realy use is for a non Snagga list bunched up for first turn invul is the only real use for it. This strat should have been a zero cost or once a game 2cp strat that doesn’t explode. I’d likely never use it but then again all our warbosses and snagga units have an invul now.
Lumbering strides shoukd have been all walkers and meganobs. I mean a reroll is already 1cp this just lets orks have a bit better reliability on charge and would have helped walkers which I think still need help this edition.
I think most ork strats are very situational and I’m only planning on using 3 during my games… ramming speed, extra gubbins, big boss will be used on every list… cloud of smoke will be used in every list with several buggies… and careen will be used in the occasional situation where I roll a 6 to explode and there is an enemy within 6in…. Which isn’t as common as people try to make out.
gungo wrote: The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.
And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…
So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
the main thing that bumping up your unit size does for you is make you more able to use strats and targeted powers/abilities which we have fairly few of tbh. i can see making a list purposefully to revolve around scoring Green Tide that uses a lot of 11 or 15-model Boyz, stormboyz, and kommandoz units in Blood Axes with I've got a plan ladz and I can see using large mobs of stormboyz with zagstruk but otherwise...yeah. Blast hurts. We dont really get anything from being 20x1 as opposed to 10x2, really at all. Overwatch for free is gone. 20+ attack bonus is gone. UGT+old Get Stuck In is gone. It's hard to see how Warpath alone warrants the massive massive downside of large mobs.
Rogerio134134 wrote: I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.
The only green tide I see working is some combination of msu kommando/stormboy/trukk boy spam with lots of pks/big choppas and an evilsun warboss on bike using follow me lads warlord trait and rezdmeka armor.
During the Waagh you get move advance and charge. Your stormboys move 20in, your warboss on bike 25in move, and any unit that charges behind your warboss into units he’s able to get into engagement range will also get +1 to charge and they all attack first.
Rogerio134134 wrote: I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.
The only green tide I see working is some combination of msu kommando/stormboy/trukk boy spam with lots of pks/big choppas and an evilsun warboss on bike using follow me lads warlord trait and rezdmeka armor.
During the Waagh you get move advance and charge. Your stormboys move 20in, your warboss on bike 25in move, and any unit that charges behind your warboss into units he’s able to get into engagement range will also get +1 to charge and they all attack first.
That’s a very strong first turn charge.
This is true, and I'm honestly not convinced that second turn is as crippling for kommandos as some folks seem to think it is. It's a 10pt T5 3+ model in cover, that's hot as hell.
gungo wrote: The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.
And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…
So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
the main thing that bumping up your unit size does for you is make you more able to use strats and targeted powers/abilities which we have fairly few of tbh. i can see making a list purposefully to revolve around scoring Green Tide that uses a lot of 11 or 15-model Boyz, stormboyz, and kommandoz units in Blood Axes with I've got a plan ladz and I can see using large mobs of stormboyz with zagstruk but otherwise...yeah. Blast hurts. We dont really get anything from being 20x1 as opposed to 10x2, really at all. Overwatch for free is gone. 20+ attack bonus is gone. UGT+old Get Stuck In is gone. It's hard to see how Warpath alone warrants the massive massive downside of large mobs.
also one of the best parts of MSU is you are increasing the chance to benefit from mob rule!! We actually have better morale as an msu army!!! Plus you gain more nobs w pk/bc.
we have vastly better morale as an msu army. After just one test game running a couple of large units, absolutely i am never again going for that - min mobs whenever I can get away with it.
I basically lost 5/10 stormboyz to morale and then only didnt lose 4-5 snagga boyz because of a lucky 1 on a morale roll, and all having 20 snaggaz did for me was cause me to not be able to fight with several of my boyz shoved in to the back.
the_scotsman wrote: we have vastly better morale as an msu army. After just one test game running a couple of large units, absolutely i am never again going for that - min mobs whenever I can get away with it.
I basically lost 5/10 stormboyz to morale and then only didnt lose 4-5 snagga boyz because of a lucky 1 on a morale roll, and all having 20 snaggaz did for me was cause me to not be able to fight with several of my boyz shoved in to the back.
If your going over 10+ Or maxing out at 15 stormboys especially w multi squads I think zagstruk is needed he basically limits you to losing 2 stormboys most times to morale. Even then I still think 10 stormboys msu is better. It’s the pks that do the heavy lifting.
For the person asking why kommandos… 5 man squads are dirt cheap 50pt garaunteed 3+ sv screens w +1 wound in cover and for some reason 5pt pks making the ultimate pk spam… To bad they are limited to 3x datasheets because I would fill a whole army of them.
kingbbobb wrote: I leaning towards taking alot of elite units over boys like kommandos and Nobz to fill that infantry roll
Nobz [etc...]
Nobz are a fantastic unit and I don't see many reason for not investing in the Big Choppas every time since S7 (or S8 if Goff) are really sweet for veichles hunting and D2 helps with the omnipresent Space Marines. It sucks that it's still AP-1 but they probably were too busy inventing 4 different "totally-not-a-power-klaw" profiles to update it.
They can really get down to business and I agree with you on them being one of the best "core" infantries at our disposal.
On a side note, what's everyone's opinion on Mega-Dreads? Auto-included Ramming Speed with 16 Wounds and a proper "dreadnought" melee damage output (Deff Dreads D3 feels quite lacking with the current creep, especially against DUTY ETERNAL cousins, despite their 7 attacks). They do look like a lovely DISTRACTION CARNIFEX when paired with other veichles (maybe filled with the Nobz discussed above)
kingbbobb wrote: I leaning towards taking alot of elite units over boys like kommandos and Nobz to fill that infantry roll
Nobz [etc...]
Nobz are a fantastic unit and I don't see many reason for not investing in the Big Choppas every time since S7 (or S8 if Goff) are really sweet for veichles hunting and D2 helps with the omnipresent Space Marines. It sucks that it's still AP-1 but they probably were too busy inventing 4 different "totally-not-a-power-klaw" profiles to update it.
They can really get down to business and I agree with you on them being one of the best "core" infantries at our disposal.
On a side note, what's everyone's opinion on Mega-Dreads? Auto-included Ramming Speed with 16 Wounds and a proper "dreadnought" melee damage output (Deff Dreads D3 feels quite lacking with the current creep, especially against DUTY ETERNAL cousins, despite their 7 attacks). They do look like a lovely DISTRACTION CARNIFEX when paired with other veichles (maybe filled with the Nobz discussed above)
I feel like Mega-Dreads have taken the old role the Gorkanaut took as a deep strike backfield menace now that they're LoW's. New ramshackle helps them a fair bit and they do the big beefy damage we're missing out on in CC now that D4 Killa Klaw warboss no longer exists, he's basically one of the few guys we have besides Ghazzy that can reliably take down guys like DG terminators/deathshroud.
I feel anything fw is going to see massive changes it’s not outside the realm to see squiggoths see massive point drops and only carry snaggas.. and get the increased bite damage from new squigs and become the best fw unit… problem is we don’t know yet.
why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.
Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.
I feel like Mega-Dreads have taken the old role the Gorkanaut took as a deep strike backfield menace now that they're LoW's. New ramshackle helps them a fair bit and they do the big beefy damage we're missing out on in CC now that D4 Killa Klaw warboss no longer exists, he's basically one of the few guys we have besides Ghazzy that can reliably take down guys like DG terminators/deathshroud.
Yeah. Spending 2CP for their Tellyporta feels kinda steep but at the same time we're saving the Ramming Speed Cost so it evens out even if you reserve two of them.
I was mostly pondering about footslogging a couple of them in my Vanguard Detachment side-by-side with my MANZ and Nobz Trucks. With 16W and popping a force field they should be able to tank a lot of firepower that would otherwise go to the Trukks.
And if they shoot the Trukks they can remove heavy targets while Nobz go for the infantry (assuming they didn't remove 4 trukks and all the guys inside in one volley)
Vineheart01 wrote: why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.
Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.
Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.
SemperMortis wrote: Hot garbage: Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.
Gonna jump on this as I think while it's still situational, this stratagem will be more useful than anyone has given it credit for...
Given it costs 2CP it shouldn't have so many downsides but I think Boyz are the wrong target - we have a bunch of multi wound model units that don't have great leadership, and there are several armies that can affect that dramatically. DG terminators that kill a single model can drop leadership by 4 for example, meaning you're looking at a 3+ failed morale on Mega nobz (who can use the strat on themselves). Squighog boys and bikers, being 3 wounds, are similarly really good targets for it. Even the buggies if you're running them in 3s.
It's still too expensive though, it should be 1CP.
gungo wrote: Why choose which Waagh take both :p barring any major faq changes, warboss on bike nerfs, or better stuff in the campaign book I’m likely going to play something like this.
Yeah, I have been toying with similar lists as well. The only real downside to Thrakka is getting one less unit of trukkboyz, but if you don't care for that to begin with... why not?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote: Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.
Without going in detail, that's pretty much how it is for all 9th edition codices. Stratagems no longer shape the army, which is a good thing IMO.
Of course, orks had some of the best stratagems in the game, so losing so many of them hurts, but that's how it was going to be from the start. My main gripe with them is that some are unnecessarily limited to beast snaggas and that some cool ones like da kleverest boss and the grot bumper didn't make it.
gungo wrote: Why choose which Waagh take both :p barring any major faq changes, warboss on bike nerfs, or better stuff in the campaign book I’m likely going to play something like this.
Yeah, I have been toying with similar lists as well. The only real downside to Thrakka is getting one less unit of trukkboyz, but if you don't care for that to begin with... why not?
Here’s my thought on trukk boys…
It makes a tax unit that doesn’t do enough damage and isn’t durable enough on its own playable..
But it requires me spending 70 more points on a trukk that’s essentially just a deployment option with little to no offense just to add some mobility and speed to my 100pt boy tax unit…now I’m spending 170pts just to get 9 boys and 1pk nob without any klan buffs into assault range which I could do for cheaper with stormboys or kommandos that maintain thier own buffs and klan kultures… now I’m not saying trukk boys are bad but it simple makes a tax unit usable and unless you’re going for a greentide type spam list with 3x kommandos, 3x stormboys, 2x-3x trukk boys with multiple warbossses on squig/bike…. They will only provide a place for your opponent to put thier anti infantry weapons.
The downside to thrakka in that list is he’s easy to handle.. you play keep away from him and kill everything else that’s a threat. (Killrigs, buggies, warboss on bike, squig boss, and squig riders). He essentially prevents your opponent from killing your warlord and leaves a nice little bubble for your opponent to avoid or for your opponent to feed chaff units into but he’s slow enough to not be a major threat to winning the mission. If your opponent falls into the trap of throwing enough antitank firearms into him they usually won’t have enough firearms left over to throw into the toughness 6 buggies and squigboys/toughness 8 Killrigs/toughness 7 warbosses w damage reductions. Few armies have the firepower to handle that many high toughness high value targets with additions like ramshackle, ard as nails and thick hide.. with 5/6++ invuls and army wide 6+++ fnp… if they can do that and handle thrakka you got problems regardless… throw in a smoke screen strat to start the game on your buggies and you are living pretty.
Vineheart01 wrote: why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.
Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.
Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.
I was wondering that as well. Will they pick up the beast snagga keyword and or squig keyword.
My instinct is no. They don't seem to transfer intermediate keyword s from codex to forgeworld very often.
The old codex nobz on warbikes had the nobz keyword. But the new forgeworld nobz on warbikes didn't.
The kustom stompa doesn't have the stompa keyword preventing it from using stratagems/abilities the normal stompa can.
For the most part I suspect very little in the codex will work on forgeworld models. And that's the way they want it.
gungo wrote: The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.
And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…
So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
I don't think any of those are a big problem. All of our units are ld 6 or 7 now, so just few casualties to units like warbikers, MANz, koptas or squig riders can easily cause to lose additional expensive multi-wound models. When facing enemies with LD reduction you could even be losing whole buggies to morale. For example DG have a stratagem that give a unit -4 to ld when a terminator kills one of their members, this could easily make you fail your test.
For these situations, breakin' heads is actually very, very good and almost a no-brainer to use. Sadly, it still requires a warboss or unit of nobz to be nearby, so the times when you are actually allowed to use the stratagem when you need it is a way bigger problem than how mediocre it is for single-wound units.
pepi55 wrote: How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?
Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.
270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc
or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?
The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition
Math shows Skorcha is exactly double the damage output of a burna.
So for 55 points you'd be able to get 4 burnas plus a spannas versus 56 points for two nobz with Skorchas. You'd be better off taking only one unit and maxing out the benefit from pyromaniacs.
Skorchas provide some benefit as far as concentration of firepower in a transport, but burnas get spannas that have big Shootas and can also repair the transport.
part of me really wants to run squiggoths along side the new rigs and squigriders just for thematic reasons.
Even though i seriously have 0 reason to run a squiggoth lol. They arent as bad as they used to be for the points but still pretty pathetic (my poor gargsquig is totally worthless atm)
gungo wrote: The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.
And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…
So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
I don't think any of those are a big problem. All of our units are ld 6 or 7 now, so just few casualties to units like warbikers, MANz, koptas or squig riders can easily cause to lose additional expensive multi-wound models. When facing enemies with LD reduction you could even be losing whole buggies to morale. For example DG have a stratagem that give a unit -4 to ld when a terminator kills one of their members, this could easily make you fail your test.
For these situations, breakin' heads is actually very, very good and almost a no-brainer to use. Sadly, it still requires a warboss or unit of nobz to be nearby, so the times when you are actually allowed to use the stratagem when you need it is a way bigger problem than how mediocre it is for single-wound units.
Ld reduction rarely matter to breaking heads… you fail morale regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that only instill bravery. Once you fail morale you lose a model regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that either… breaking heads only limits attrition loss usually 1 model. So at this point you are losing 2 models (not including what you just lost to trigger a morale test in the first place… (at minimum 3 now).. if you stay at 3-5 models you are mostly fine, benefit from mob rule, and rarely get into a situation where breaking eads is worth using 2cp to save 1 additional model isnt worth it. I mean you are correct those are the main units to benefit once you use insane bravery but you would have to put yourself at squads of 5+ Warbikers, manz, koptas, squig riders and be within 6in of a warboss or nob for this to matter and people are avoiding that because it’s a massive liability.
On Ghaz, has anyone considered just throwing him in a wagon and using the tellyporta+ramming speed. I realize it's dumb but it certainly seems to remove the entire issue of him waddling up the battlefield. He's just there turn two doing in the middle of the enemy DZ. You could even throw in a warboss or two.
I mean, it's silly, and I know you're going to tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds fun enough to try it at least once for a laugh if you have the model.
Tellyporta - 2CP same as always. You can tellyporta any unit you want except Monsters and 20PR+
It's strange that this is one of your top picks to me. Honestly, deep strike now feels so dubious in so many situations given the nature of the micro-board you basically feel like you almost dont get anything out of it at all besides shittier charge rolls. The combo with ramming speed is there, but it is a 4CP combo...
I'm thinking specifically about the Big ead Bunka and using it teamed with tankbustas/flashgitz to maximize dmg potential. The head stops the units inside from 1: being hurt, 2: moving. Add to that, its got really good SHORT range guns which makes it an ideal target for deep striking since you need it near the enemy, and the fact that in turn 2 if the enemy is pushing hard in a zone for board control or objectives you can pull a ghazghkull thraka and drop ROKz from space onto their heads Its a beautiful combination of fluffy, fun and competitive.
the_scotsman wrote: Orkz is Never Beaten - 2CP NERF This now lets a character fight if they hadnt this turn, it used to allow the character to fight twice if it died after swinging.
Well, yeah. This was always going to do this after SM had the exact same strat changed.
Yep, but its especially bad for Orkz since our CC characters don't really do much to buff orkz except in CC. So if they don't do their dmg in CC they usually aren't helping us much.
the_scotsman wrote: Cloud of Smoke - 2CP If you are running big groups of speed freakz this is a must use strat. Gives -1 to hit for all speedfreak vehicles within 6' of a selected speed freak vehicle.
Good but it is worth noting that you can also choose to just build around this by including an army of warbikes, boomdakka snazzwagons, and flyers which are all good and all get -1 to hit native. Deffcoptas are really the only must-use unit for this strat and if you're running evil sunz for your freek list, theyre a great candidate for the jsj spell instead to get a big unit jumping out and jumping back behind Obscuring. Food for thought.
I can see this used especially turn 1 to negate the enemies alpha strike shooting. a -1 to hit teamed with our Ramshackle should make our vehicles somewhat durable at least.
the_scotsman wrote: Situational: Careen - 1/2CP If you blow up, move 6' towards your opponent before blowing up.
If by "Situational" you mean "Every time I roll for my vehicle to explode, ever" then yeah. It's free mortal wound-estate!
Situational because it does not cause an auto-explosion. So if you have 6 vehicles in the game, you likely will have 1 explode and depending on where it explodes will also influence whether you use this strat or not. That is why its "situational" instead of good or competitive.
the_scotsman wrote: Former ability: Gun Crazy Show Offs - 2CP Old Flashgitz ability...this is honestly better because it guarantees the second round of shooting, its expensive though.
2CP for a shoot twice is absolutely not too expensive on a unit as powerful as flash gits. I've only run my shooty list once, but this strat was absolutely INSANE basically throughout the game. I left my gits til last as I wanted to get them up to +2 to hit and once I got them there they absolutely deleted a pair of expensive squads for just a couple CP. This is miles better than the old ability which was so unreliable as to never be able to be planned around.
Its not a bad strat, and if you lean into Flashgitz I can see it used probably 2-3 turns in that game, but it doesn't synergize well with the playstyle for those Flashgitz. Primarily because to use it you need to have them out in the open as opposed to hiding in a vehicle. And Flashgitz in the open are juicy targets so if they do go out of their vehicle they will be hard pressed to live longer than 1 turn.
the_scotsman wrote: Tank Busta Bomb - 1CP They took away our Tank Busta bombs and turned it into a strat that lets 1 model in a unit use a single attack in CC to do 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits. Its not terrible for 1CP but compared to what we used to do with Tank busta bombs (grenade strat and 10D3 Rokkitz) its kind of crap.
Werent old TBBs 1 in 10 models though? How did you get to 10d3 rokkit shots, ever? The way I see it this strat is great for adding threat to min size boyz squads, which are absolutely the new way to run basically any ork unit you're not planning on dumping strats into, and boyz 100% qualify.
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
the_scotsman wrote: Grot Shields - 2CP Similar to old grot shields except only works with 1 unit of grotz. Adding to that, its too expensive and the grots themselves are too expensive. I don't see Orkz fielding any infantry units big/expensive enough to justify the use of a 50-100pt sacrificial unit.
I mean I can only speak for myself but I made fantastic use out of it in my freebootas test run game. Included a couple 20-man units of grots in my list as objective holders/action doers and used GS to protect my Flash Gitz from enemy fire top of 1 and top of 2.
Can only be used on 1 unit of grotz a turn, Grots are T3 7+ save, it takes on average 30 bolter hits to kill a unit of 20 grots, and worse, after they are dead the unit behind is exposed so you lost 100pts just to guarantee your opponent killed the grots first. Situational at best, but for 2CP it should do a lot more than just merely kill the grots instead of your kommandos.
the_scotsman wrote: Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.
I mean it sucks that they took an ability away and gave it back but 1cp to reroll 1 die of a charge roll doesnt sound all that bad. Sometimes you roll a 6 and a 1 and you needed an 8 to get in.
Same thing as mentioned above, why spend 1 CP to reroll 1 die when you could just spend 2 CP and use ramming speed on them and almost guarantee them their charge. Especially with the 3D6 charge you have a much better chance of getting into a position where you can tag multiple units. And also, its limited to 3 models in our army now which is just sad :(
the_scotsman wrote: Ground Shaker Shells - 1CP If you hit a unit with a lobba you can halve their movement next turn and -2 to advance and charge. so incredibly situational that it likely wont be used much at all.
only problem I have with it is its YET ANOTHER fething beast snaggaz only fething stratagem. But if I was including one of those dumb kill rigs, which I am not as I am not out here about to support GW's obnoxious tendency to write entire codexes to shove whatever new release wave they've just put out, I'd use it every turn most games.Unless my opponent has absolutely no units that want to move, at all, it seems highly worthwhile to use.
Meh, D6 shots on a BS5+ unit. You are going to have turns where you aren't even able to use this strat, and even than you only impact 1 unit. Maybe on big expensive CC units or maybe ultra fast Shooting units, but that is it. Maybe move it to situational.
the_scotsman wrote: Force Field Boosta - 2CP Former Ability as well, Gain a 5++ for 1 turn on a 9' bubble and than it blows up and you can't use it ever again. If it was relic yes, if it didn't blow up and could be used multiple times per game and was 1Cp...yes, this? No.
If I was using a KFF unit I feel like I'd end up using this tbh. I'd need to be in a situation where including a KFF was just a 30-point bump on my list, as in, I'm including a Morkanaut or a Megamek with the ded shiny shoota, but then I can easily see with the firepower present in 9th ed this being a highly effective use of 2cp and 30pts.
Too much for me. 2CP to blow up a 30pt gear upgrade is just silly to me. They could have made this work and made it competitive or at least good by changing the costs around a bit but instead they hamfisted every aspect of it. 1: its nerfed in its initial ability to be a 6+...who fething cares. 2: they jacked up the price of the stupid thing to 30pts for the upgrade and 3: they make you pay CP to blow it up. I would actually be on board with blowing it up, even at 30pts as an upgrade EVEN with spending 2CP if it was a 4++ instead of a 5++. But this is just too crap to ever really use.
Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.
...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.
I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)
Its utter crap because its a former ability that they took from us and turned into a 1 CP stratagem that only works on 3 units, and realistically...you won't be using this because why spend 1CP to reroll 1 dice when you can spend 2 CP to Ramming speed, have a better chance of getting the charge off AND doing mortal wounds on a 2+?
For me, best starts are: forcefield boosta, -1 to hit and careen. Will very unlikely use much else cause of cp spent on extra traits, relics and an outside detach
Spending 2CP to blow up your own KFF is a bit absurd to me. Add to that the fact that the KFF strat makes it a better version of the 8th edition KFF and you are left with a bad taste in your mouth from the garbage GW pushed on us.
Gonna jump on this as I think while it's still situational, this stratagem will be more useful than anyone has given it credit for.
It's used after rolling the morale test, which means unlike Insane Bravery you get at least 1 in 6 (possibly higher) opportunity to not spend any CP at all. The core stratagem must be used before finding out if you need to and can only be done once per game, making it a risk to use up front in times when you're likely to pass morale.
If you do fail the morale test then you will lose 1 Ork plus any that fail the combat attrition test. By using Breakin' Heads at this point there's a 1 in 3 chance of being no worse off aside from the CP cost. You always lose a minimum of 1 model anyway, while the stratagem can cost 1, 2, or 3 wounds.
Statistically average CA rolls mean the following:
6 models = 1+1 models lost
12 models = 1+2 models lost
18 models = 1+3 models lost
24 models = 1+4 models lost
So it takes a failed morale check on a unit size larger than 12 before you 'break even' with the worst-case D3 roll from Breakin' Heads. In the most common scenario, the main use for the stratagem will be as a hedge against bad attrition rolls and/or when those rolls can cause you to lose critical mass in a mob. Perhaps a few extra models will ensure winning an prolonged melee, or guarantee you hold a contested objective in the late game. Situational, sure. So why should I dedicate my limited Orky brainspace to remembering this rule exists?
Firstly it inflicts wounds rather than dead models. So after failing a morale test on a multi-wound unit of Squighogs, Warbikes, or Meganobz you're looking at one guaranteed model gone, possibly plus others with some poor luck on CA rolls. Or you can take D3 wounds and have decent chance at not losing any models at all.
On top of this you'd almost definitely want to use Breakin' Heads when an important unit is facing modifiers to combat attrition tests:
With just a -1 modifier you're likely looking at:
6 models = 1+2 models lost
12 models = 1+4 models lost
18 models = 1+6 models lost
24 models = 1+8 models lost
Of course that's just for an average roll, it could well be much worse. I don't think there's anyone reading this who has never managed to roll a majority of 1's and 2's at a critical time.
In a worst-case scenario you can even be looking at -2 or -3 modifiers if nothing is around to grant Mob Rule. Several factions already have access to multiple modifiers on combat attrition tests, or can force nearby enemies to count as being below half unit strength when they're not. Drukhari can even score secondary VPs for each model that flees.
There will undoubtedly be more special rules to interact with enemy morale in future codexes & supplements. While I don't think Breakin' Heads is an auto-use option like some, it can definitely make a difference at the right moment.
Again, its a former ability that they turned into a 2CP strat. So what are the benefits here on boyz units. Here is the situation, I run 30 boy mob, I lose 6 boyz which gives me an 83% chance to fail morale. I roll to see if I fail, I fail, I then use this strat to minimize dmg. So here are the results.
On average, 24 boyz from Morale, you lose 1 to failed test, and than likely 4 more from Attrition. Total of 5 Dead Boyz.
Spend 2 CP and inflict D3 mortal wounds on yourself.
So the cost is either 5 dead boyz (45pts) OR 2 Dead boyz (18pts) and 2 CP. So is 27pts worth 2 CP to you? Would you spend 2 CP to save 3 Boyz? I wouldn't.
SemperMortis wrote: Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.
Without going in detail, that's pretty much how it is for all 9th edition codices. Stratagems no longer shape the army, which is a good thing IMO.
Of course, orks had some of the best stratagems in the game, so losing so many of them hurts, but that's how it was going to be from the start. My main gripe with them is that some are unnecessarily limited to beast snaggas and that some cool ones like da kleverest boss and the grot bumper didn't make it.
Yes this is true, but a lot of the 9th edition armies are also significantly better off than orkz are. We relied almost exclusively on boy spam and stratagems to carry the day, removing boyz spam and our best stratagems means we are hamstrung and require GW to give us a new avenue to approach competitive play, and while Snagga cavalry seems strong, i'm not sold that its going to be nearly as competitive as we were in 8th. Actually to put a finer point on it, I believe our Orkz have gone down a Tier level with this new codex.
TedNugent wrote: On Ghaz, has anyone considered just throwing him in a wagon and using the tellyporta+ramming speed. I realize it's dumb but it certainly seems to remove the entire issue of him waddling up the battlefield. He's just there turn two doing in the middle of the enemy DZ. You could even throw in a warboss or two.
I mean, it's silly, and I know you're going to tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds fun enough to try it at least once for a laugh if you have the model.
The big problem is that he's stuck inside the wagon until turn 3, and if it gets surrounded or destroyed before then you'll be praying not to roll that deadly 1 for emergency disembark. There's space to throw a couple of cheap characters like Makari in with him to mitigate that, but then it's costing you 4CP to have a 500pt+ pinata sitting the enemy lines for a turn.
I'm definitely gonna tellyport a red rolla Bonebreaka at some point though. Fun.
TedNugent wrote: On Ghaz, has anyone considered just throwing him in a wagon and using the tellyporta+ramming speed. I realize it's dumb but it certainly seems to remove the entire issue of him waddling up the battlefield. He's just there turn two doing in the middle of the enemy DZ. You could even throw in a warboss or two.
I mean, it's silly, and I know you're going to tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds fun enough to try it at least once for a laugh if you have the model.
it works it’s just the cost is prohibitive. I’m fine with ghaz being a big area denial unit and buff bot that denys your opponent the warlord VP. I can just waddle him to some mid board objective and let my opponent worry about removing him.
Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?
Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.
Maybe not, maybe you're better off slapping the tellyport blasta on the ded shiny megamek but I feel like i'd get value out of that 2cp+30pts the very first melta shot I block with that 5++.
I think the buggy list has teef, and I think the buggy list is gonna be taking a kff megamek with the ded shiny shoota to hop into a trukk boyz trukk after he uses the forcefield turn 1 or turn 2.
You can use it two ways: either you've got enough obscuring turn 1 to hide all your criticals and then you can hold the 'shield formation' setup in your back pocket for weathering turn 2 firepower, or you can start bunched turn 1 and have second turn insurance in the form of the 5++/army-wide -1 to hit.
Rogerio134134 wrote: I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.
Everyone who's tried boyz in a green tide in anything other than fun small games have had underwhelming results. Old boyz worked cause 30 almost fearless boyz could be reliably dajumped t1 to tie things down and than if even a single boyz remain, you could get a whole 30 back. Even this way they were not top tier - simply nice. Now they lost fearless and, most importantly, green tide. T5 and ap1 ain't cutting it for footsloggers.
Now you could run trukkboyz if you wish to spend 110 pt over grots. They can be relatively effective at what they do, though.
the_scotsman wrote: Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?
Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.
Maybe not, maybe you're better off slapping the tellyport blasta on the ded shiny megamek but I feel like i'd get value out of that 2cp+30pts the very first melta shot I block with that 5++.
I think the buggy list has teef, and I think the buggy list is gonna be taking a kff megamek with the ded shiny shoota to hop into a trukk boyz trukk after he uses the forcefield turn 1 or turn 2.
You can use it two ways: either you've got enough obscuring turn 1 to hide all your criticals and then you can hold the 'shield formation' setup in your back pocket for weathering turn 2 firepower, or you can start bunched turn 1 and have second turn insurance in the form of the 5++/army-wide -1 to hit.
I was never a huge buggy spam guy but even I realize buggy spam is the new ork jam…. However the best lists your talking about also have great shooting for those awesome defensive platforms.. orks are relying on melee to carry us through and I think we will be a strong tournament army but fall to the big 3…. Drukari, ad mech, and primarus…
the_scotsman wrote: Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?
Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.
Maybe not, maybe you're better off slapping the tellyport blasta on the ded shiny megamek but I feel like i'd get value out of that 2cp+30pts the very first melta shot I block with that 5++.
I think the buggy list has teef, and I think the buggy list is gonna be taking a kff megamek with the ded shiny shoota to hop into a trukk boyz trukk after he uses the forcefield turn 1 or turn 2.
You can use it two ways: either you've got enough obscuring turn 1 to hide all your criticals and then you can hold the 'shield formation' setup in your back pocket for weathering turn 2 firepower, or you can start bunched turn 1 and have second turn insurance in the form of the 5++/army-wide -1 to hit.
The DE armies I have faced weren't "Busted" because of 5++ vehicles, they were busted because of the shooting coming out of those vehicles and even worse when the units inside got out. The vehicles themselves were annoying but not broken due to durability, it was the ridiculous firepower coming from them. I had no problem popping them like pimples with my Mek gunz and in CC with just boyz, the problem was I didn't have much left after turn 2 to do anything with because their shooting was just so ridiculously OP.
the_scotsman wrote: Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?
Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.
The main issue with Ramshackle is that not a lot of armies bring Anti-tank that's below S8. DEldar Disintegrators are the only thing that comes to mind. -1 To hit will be HUGE in mirror matches but since most armies are hitting on 3+ and dumping rerolls on top of that the impact is at best limited. As it stands our only defensive gimmick is that Eradicators will only kill one of those veichles per turn instead of a whole squadron, which is a point for picking two trukks instead of a Battlewagon but aside from that ramshackle will mostly affect "side weapons" while we're still eating Plasma just the same.
Where Ramshackle really shines IMHO is in melee against all the master crafted/relic/force weapons on charachters and on some elite units (like bladeguard veterans). With T5 infantry and Ramshackling veichles/koptas melee tarpitting would be a real gem for our codex IF we had some way to keep people there but that's simply not happening with fall back
Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.
...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.
I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)
Its utter crap because its a former ability that they took from us and turned into a 1 CP stratagem that only works on 3 units, and realistically...you won't be using this because why spend 1CP to reroll 1 dice when you can spend 2 CP to Ramming speed, have a better chance of getting the charge off AND doing mortal wounds on a 2+?
Ah well, true dat. Fair enough.
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
All I can say about the stratagems is that at least zero are 3cp.
Combine this with the fact kustom jobs and specialist mobs no longer cost CP and it means we have CP to burn on some excellent hero hammer relics and warlord traits for our equally excellent warboss options.
Most of my cp are wasted on a second detachment, 2 relics and 2-3 warlord traits anyway… even w using a battalion and outrider detachment giving me 6-7cp to spare…
I’ve already am dedicating
2cp to smokescreen first turn to keep all my buggies and warboss on bike alive!
2cp to ramming speed on my Killrig so I can place that massive base near as many models as possible for a frazzle mw bomb
Then I’m either going to emergency use 2cp to
Orks is never beaten after a warboss dies but doesn’t get to hit or
Thick as squig hide when my beastboss on squig gets surrounded by a bunch of high str weapons
or if I’m lucky I can use my last 2 cp to
Overwatch on my kill rig because nothing is more hilarious then auto hitting with d3 str9 -3ap d6 dam weapons into a charging monsters face when your opponent doesn’t expect your overwatch to auto hit… (plus the rerolls for stikkbombs vs monster and vehicles...)
And a reroll or lucky careen on a vehicle.
So I don’t really have cp to spare… btw Killrigs are going to have calls for nerfs because of all the crazy shennegians you can do with them.
Vineheart01 wrote: why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.
Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.
Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.
Btw I can almost garauntee you squiggoths are going to be beastsnaggas now!!
Why?
Because the strat tough as squig hide specifically mentions working on “beastsnagga monsters” which currently does NOT exist in our codex.
gungo wrote: The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.
And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…
So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
I don't think any of those are a big problem. All of our units are ld 6 or 7 now, so just few casualties to units like warbikers, MANz, koptas or squig riders can easily cause to lose additional expensive multi-wound models. When facing enemies with LD reduction you could even be losing whole buggies to morale. For example DG have a stratagem that give a unit -4 to ld when a terminator kills one of their members, this could easily make you fail your test.
For these situations, breakin' heads is actually very, very good and almost a no-brainer to use. Sadly, it still requires a warboss or unit of nobz to be nearby, so the times when you are actually allowed to use the stratagem when you need it is a way bigger problem than how mediocre it is for single-wound units.
Ld reduction rarely matter to breaking heads… you fail morale regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that only instill bravery. Once you fail morale you lose a model regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that either… breaking heads only limits attrition loss usually 1 model. So at this point you are losing 2 models (not including what you just lost to trigger a morale test in the first place… (at minimum 3 now).. if you stay at 3-5 models you are mostly fine, benefit from mob rule, and rarely get into a situation where breaking eads is worth using 2cp to save 1 additional model isnt worth it. I mean you are correct those are the main units to benefit once you use insane bravery but you would have to put yourself at squads of 5+ Warbikers, manz, koptas, squig riders and be within 6in of a warboss or nob for this to matter and people are avoiding that because it’s a massive liability.
Breaking heads specifically says the moral test is considered passed, so you don't lose the first model.
I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.
More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.
If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_
gungo wrote: Most of my cp are wasted on a second detachment, 2 relics and 2-3 warlord traits anyway… even w using a battalion and outrider detachment giving me 6-7cp to spare…
I’ve already am dedicating
2cp to smokescreen first turn to keep all my buggies and warboss on bike alive!
2cp to ramming speed on my Killrig so I can place that massive base near as many models as possible for a frazzle mw bomb
Then I’m either going to emergency use 2cp to
Orks is never beaten after a warboss dies but doesn’t get to hit or
Thick as squig hide when my beastboss on squig gets surrounded by a bunch of high str weapons
or if I’m lucky I can use my last 2 cp to
Overwatch on my kill rig because nothing is more hilarious then auto hitting with d3 str9 -3ap d6 dam weapons into a charging monsters face when your opponent doesn’t expect your overwatch to auto hit… (plus the rerolls for stikkbombs vs monster and vehicles...)
And a reroll or lucky careen on a vehicle.
So I don’t really have cp to spare… btw Killrigs are going to have calls for nerfs because of all the crazy shennegians you can do with them.
Vineheart01 wrote: why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.
Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.
Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.
Btw I can almost garauntee you squiggoths are going to be beastsnaggas now!!
Why?
Because the strat tough as squig hide specifically mentions working on “beastsnagga monsters” which currently does NOT exist in our codex.
zammerak wrote: I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.
More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.
If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_
You explicitly roll 1 single D6. on a 4+, your dakka weapons make 1 additional shot. On a 6, they make 2.
zammerak wrote: I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.
More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.
If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_
You explicitly roll 1 single D6. on a 4+, your dakka weapons make 1 additional shot. On a 6, they make 2.
right Ok so if I roll a 4 or a 5 they become dakka 7/5 and if I get a 6 they become 8/6
That is what I had thought as well.
zammerak wrote: I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.
More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.
If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_
The core rules say
"When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attack with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with [...]"
and
"No unit can be selected to shoot with more than once in each shooting phase"
It appears that shooting is singular so you only get to roll once which is pretty bad for 15 point because it statistically ups your shots from a dakkajet by 4 (damage increased by 13 percent) while it also ups your costs by 18 percent
gungo wrote: Most of my cp are wasted on a second detachment, 2 relics and 2-3 warlord traits anyway… even w using a battalion and outrider detachment giving me 6-7cp to spare…
I’ve already am dedicating
2cp to smokescreen first turn to keep all my buggies and warboss on bike alive!
2cp to ramming speed on my Killrig so I can place that massive base near as many models as possible for a frazzle mw bomb
Then I’m either going to emergency use 2cp to
Orks is never beaten after a warboss dies but doesn’t get to hit or
Thick as squig hide when my beastboss on squig gets surrounded by a bunch of high str weapons
or if I’m lucky I can use my last 2 cp to
Overwatch on my kill rig because nothing is more hilarious then auto hitting with d3 str9 -3ap d6 dam weapons into a charging monsters face when your opponent doesn’t expect your overwatch to auto hit… (plus the rerolls for stikkbombs vs monster and vehicles...)
And a reroll or lucky careen on a vehicle.
So I don’t really have cp to spare… btw Killrigs are going to have calls for nerfs because of all the crazy shennegians you can do with them.
Vineheart01 wrote: why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.
Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.
Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.
Btw I can almost garauntee you squiggoths are going to be beastsnaggas now!!
Why?
Because the strat tough as squig hide specifically mentions working on “beastsnagga monsters” which currently does NOT exist in our codex.
Thought the Beastboss on Squigosaur was a Monster
I had to look it up too
Neither him nor the named squigboss has “monster” keyword. They have “squig” and “cavalry” keywords.
The Killrig and hunter rig don’t have squig keyword at all which is kinda dumb.. but they honestly don’t need more shenanigans.
I just checked and there is actually no vehicle in the orks codex where the increase in damage from adding the more dakka kustom job exceeds the cost increase.
enni wrote: I just checked and there is actually no vehicle in the orks codex where the increase in damage from adding the more dakka kustom job exceeds the cost increase.
So the verdict is: never take it
Even if the Dakka Jet takes the 6 supa shootas? that would be 6 more shots (up to 12) for a 15 pt increase or a 13.6% increase.
Why not, if you have enough points and can't get a whole unit, it's a nice option to get this extra shooting on a jet. Especially for freebootas when you need every bit possible to get this first kill off.
enni wrote: I just checked and there is actually no vehicle in the orks codex where the increase in damage from adding the more dakka kustom job exceeds the cost increase.
So the verdict is: never take it
Even if the Dakka Jet takes the 6 supa shootas? that would be 6 more shots (up to 12) for a 15 pt increase or a 13.6% increase.
you get 6 additional shots on 4s and 5s and 12 on 6s for an average of (0+0+0+6+6+12)/6 = 24/6 = 4
Automatically Appended Next Post: which as stated above increases your damage by 13% yet does nothing for your resiliance.
and 15 points is 18% of the dakkajet cost (6 big shootas)
so you're always better of saving those point to pay for (parts of) an additional dakkajet
The more dakka-dakka jet is fine, you get average 16.6% more shots at max range/11.1% more shots at short range for 12.5% more points. If you have 15 points lying around go for it.
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
....but at 24" range, 0 cp, and a microscopic bit less to hit (50% vs 55%) - I'll take it!
Tankbustas on the move with a non-shooty kultur hit 6.6 times, old tankbustas hit 5.5 times. Not even to mention theyre now T5.
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?
Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?
Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).
Why would you need anyone else in the trukk?
Just put 12 tankbustas in it… there is no point to disembark unless you want to put in a pair of tankhammers in it and a pair of bomb squigs(no longer take up transport slot) and use the tankbusta bomb strat… to blow up a Knight or something huge.
That’s 2d6+2d3+2d3 mortal wounds that all hit on a 2+ on a vehicle or 3+ on anything else. Not counting the 9d3 rokkits hitting on a 4+ on a vehicle or 5+ anything else.
I mean trukk boys makes them strong, but the real issue is they are overpriced and this build isn’t worth the 250pts it cost unless the Meta turns into imperial knight spam again.
However specialist units are broken BUT under the current rules you can theoretically have 5-7 nob trukk boys in a trukk and 5-7 (badmoon or whatever) tankbustas in the same trukk and since the trukk gets +1 to hit under the trukk boys specialist rules as long as the nobs are embarked technically the tankbustas would as well..but that’s some unintended shenanigans.
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
....but at 24" range, 0 cp, and a microscopic bit less to hit (50% vs 55%) - I'll take it!
Tankbustas on the move with a non-shooty kultur hit 6.6 times, old tankbustas hit 5.5 times. Not even to mention theyre now T5.
Yeah, but when you add in the kulture and the strats it became ridiculous.
10D3 shots = 20 on average. For my army I ran Freeboota's so when my opponent didn't pop my trukk filled with tankbustas this was the AVERAGE damage output vs a Knight. 20 shots, 10 initial hits and 3ish DDD for 1.5 more hits, 10 rerolls for another 5 hits and 1.6 more DDD for .8 hits. Total of 17ish hits. Against T8 thats 8.5 wounds against a 5++ thats 5.66 failed saves and averages just about 20dmg.
10 tankbustas now at range have to move so lose their +1 to hit but gain it back from Freebootas, So 20 shots, 10 hits, 5 wounds 3.3 go through for 11.6dmg.
Add in stratagems they both have access too and the dmg swings even heavier for the Tankbusta Bombs.
Since we're comparing 24" range rokkit launcher with 6"range Busta bomb, you should assume that the tankbustas don't need to move to shoot the knight with launchers, so it's more like 3+ to hit in freebotta.
Anyway, the point was that one costed 1cp and happened once in a while , while the other is free and -with proper play- can maybe happen once or twice every game.
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances. W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things. 190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
XC18 wrote: Since we're comparing 24" range rokkit launcher with 6"range Busta bomb, you should assume that the tankbustas don't need to move to shoot the knight with launchers, so it's more like 3+ to hit in freebotta.
Anyway, the point was that one costed 1cp and happened once in a while , while the other is free and -with proper play- can maybe happen once or twice every game.
also, oh nooo, one yu-gi-oh esque super combo mega trap card has been removed from the game, how terrible...
oh noooo, a character fighting three times in a turn to demolish 300% of his value has been removed from the game, that's awful...
also, oh nooo, one yu-gi-oh esque super combo mega trap card has been removed from the game, how terrible...
oh noooo, a character fighting three times in a turn to demolish 300% of his value has been removed from the game, that's awful...
There's nothing trap-cardy about the concept "being near orks is a bad idea in more ways than one" when it comes to tankbusta bombs, both from Boys squads and from Tankbustas.
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?
Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).
Why would you need anyone else in the trukk?
Just put 12 tankbustas in it… there is no point to disembark unless you want to put in a pair of tankhammers in it and a pair of bomb squigs(no longer take up transport slot) and use the tankbusta bomb strat… to blow up a Knight or something huge.
That’s 2d6+2d3+2d3 mortal wounds that all hit on a 2+ on a vehicle or 3+ on anything else. Not counting the 9d3 rokkits hitting on a 4+ on a vehicle or 5+ anything else.
I mean trukk boys makes them strong, but the real issue is they are overpriced and this build isn’t worth the 250pts it cost unless the Meta turns into imperial knight spam again.
However specialist units are broken BUT under the current rules you can theoretically have 5-7 nob trukk boys in a trukk and 5-7 (badmoon or whatever) tankbustas in the same trukk and since the trukk gets +1 to hit under the trukk boys specialist rules as long as the nobs are embarked technically the tankbustas would as well..but that’s some unintended shenanigans.
Tankbustas cannot themselves take Trukk boyz as they are not a <Boyz>/<Nob>/<Warboss> unit, you would need to share the Trukk with a small unit capable of taking the specialist mob, then you would get the additional +1 to hit on everything in the transport. A Waagh banner nob isn't totally rubbish for this as he would be replacing his +1 to hit melee aura for +1 to hit trukk based shooting - but it is all overpriced.
SemperMortis wrote: Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls
What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?
Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).
Why would you need anyone else in the trukk?
Just put 12 tankbustas in it… there is no point to disembark unless you want to put in a pair of tankhammers in it and a pair of bomb squigs(no longer take up transport slot) and use the tankbusta bomb strat… to blow up a Knight or something huge.
That’s 2d6+2d3+2d3 mortal wounds that all hit on a 2+ on a vehicle or 3+ on anything else. Not counting the 9d3 rokkits hitting on a 4+ on a vehicle or 5+ anything else.
I mean trukk boys makes them strong, but the real issue is they are overpriced and this build isn’t worth the 250pts it cost unless the Meta turns into imperial knight spam again.
However specialist units are broken BUT under the current rules you can theoretically have 5-7 nob trukk boys in a trukk and 5-7 (badmoon or whatever) tankbustas in the same trukk and since the trukk gets +1 to hit under the trukk boys specialist rules as long as the nobs are embarked technically the tankbustas would as well..but that’s some unintended shenanigans.
Tankbustas cannot themselves take Trukk boyz as they are not a <Boyz>/<Nob>/<Warboss> unit, you would need to share the Trukk with a small unit capable of taking the specialist mob, then you would get the additional +1 to hit on everything in the transport. A Waagh banner nob isn't totally rubbish for this as he would be replacing his +1 to hit melee aura for +1 to hit trukk based shooting - but it is all overpriced.
You wouldn't as only units with this culture get the +1 to hit bonus.
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
also, oh nooo, one yu-gi-oh esque super combo mega trap card has been removed from the game, how terrible...
oh noooo, a character fighting three times in a turn to demolish 300% of his value has been removed from the game, that's awful...
There's nothing trap-cardy about the concept "being near orks is a bad idea in more ways than one" when it comes to tankbusta bombs, both from Boys squads and from Tankbustas.
Anything that vastly multiplied your damage for CP is and was bad for the game and GW is creating a vastly better game by curbing those things from 9th edition codices.
With DG losing their grenade combo, did anyone really expect orks to keep it?
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
The other explanation would be that they meant to have it work for kill rigs, then later found out that you can't tellyport them if they are monsters, moved them to vehicles and broke the other stratagem
Also claiming that they will become "beast snagga only" is quite a far leap, just because kill rigs are that way. In any case, if they actually become full-fledged beast snagga models, this would be quite a buff for them.
I expect basically any 'I use this strat, and then I use that strat, and I can stack up to 3x/4x damage!' combo to be either removed from the game or greatly, greatly reduced in impact.
and good fething riddance. I just wish they'd do it all at once and that they hadn't stuck with the dirt-stupid nine billion strats/relics/traits SM supplement model. Now we have to deal with an entire edition of every marine player whinging on and on and on about having to pay for all the invisible power that gets added to the imbalanceable mess of their gigantic uber megafaction.
Whoops, sorry, we gave Blood Angels a chapter trait and combat doctrine and warlord traits and stratagems and psychic powers and relics that make melee units really really really really powerful, so sadly, every marine melee unit has to be overcosted for you, imp fists, tough luck!
pepi55 wrote: How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?
Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.
270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc
or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?
The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition
Math shows Skorcha is exactly double the damage output of a burna.
So for 55 points you'd be able to get 4 burnas plus a spannas versus 56 points for two nobz with Skorchas. You'd be better off taking only one unit and maxing out the benefit from pyromaniacs.
Skorchas provide some benefit as far as concentration of firepower in a transport, but burnas get spannas that have big Shootas and can also repair the transport.
So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?
They've never been optimal, so why not run them anyways. If anything, skorchas nobz are better than they used to be. Well, maybe 5th skorchas were better but still not an optimal unit by any means.
So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?
The only instance i can think of them being good was in 5th as Warbiker Nobz, assuming I remember correctly and the Bike Upgrade didn't mess up their ranged weapon options.
But even then since you were already giving everyone you could a Power Klaw and mixed equipment to spread wounds around it wasn't really what you aimed for.
Flamers are fun but paying 30+ points for them on a footslogging, slow and relatively frail platform is simply never going to work. Stick to a cheap burna unit on a Trukk if you want to get the feel (and regret you'll never have the fun of dropping 12 flamer templates on a bunched up Daemonettes unit dealing around 130 wounds to them)
So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?
The only instance i can think of them being good was in 5th as Warbiker Nobz, assuming I remember correctly and the Bike Upgrade didn't mess up their ranged weapon options.
But even then since you were already giving everyone you could a Power Klaw and mixed equipment to spread wounds around it wasn't really what you aimed for.
Flamers are fun but paying 30+ points for them on a footslogging, slow and relatively frail platform is simply never going to work. Stick to a cheap burna unit on a Trukk if you want to get the feel (and regret you'll never have the fun of dropping 12 flamer templates on a bunched up Daemonettes unit dealing around 130 wounds to them)
awwww, you mentioned how fun old burna boyz were to use and now i'm sad :(
"now take the number of models under this template and mulitply by 10..."
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances. W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things. 190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths They are becoming beast snagga only models.. Why do I say this? We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units… and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
No i saw your memo and i ignored it. It makes ZERO SENSE to retroactively change a unit to suddenly have a massive restriction. Especially when they have NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE. Even more especially when its a FW model that isnt even that popular since its fugly as hell.
Squiggoths are not going to be beastsnagga only. I'd be shocked if they even get Squig keyword.
That strat can easily be 2 things: 1) meant for the Rig and they fethed up (add it to the pile!) or 2) futureproofing for when we get rampaging squigosaurs w/o a boss on top. Its always possible theres another unit that either they purposely held back or decided wasnt ready to be shipped so they snipped it out of this release.
Notes from my victory over Custodies yesterday. 78-40
DakkaJet if played right will make its points back, even against high saves like the Custodies
Deep Striking deffkoptas is fun and against a low model count army such as Custodies I can drop my unit of 5 nearly anywhere and pepper a hard target full of rockets, and then drown them in dice on the charge during the Waaagghh.
Goff MANZ with 2x killsaws will remove anything they look at in melee AS LONG AS THEY GET TO FIGHT FIRST. Play them smart on your turn 2 as your opponent will be wise to interrupt them and swing before they can.
Ghaz continues to make his points back every game, and is an absolute nuisance to deal with for most of my opponents.
T5 certainly helps boyz but they still seem to not last very long.
Small units of stormboyz work very well for positioning a combo charge (they can fly behind your target and not get in the way of things coming out of transports. They are also great for zipping around grabbing objectives or secondaries.
pepi55 wrote: How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?
Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.
270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc
or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?
The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition
Math shows Skorcha is exactly double the damage output of a burna.
So for 55 points you'd be able to get 4 burnas plus a spannas versus 56 points for two nobz with Skorchas. You'd be better off taking only one unit and maxing out the benefit from pyromaniacs.
Skorchas provide some benefit as far as concentration of firepower in a transport, but burnas get spannas that have big Shootas and can also repair the transport.
So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?
Like I said, if you look purely at the shooting, it's basically the same cost for four burnas versus two skorchas. And each skorcha is roughly equal to two burnas in terms of damage output. So you're the only loss in shooting output would come from the big shootas and losing the 1 wound repair each turn.
So, you could take a smaller squad of skorchas that would be equivalent to a full size unit of burnas, or you could take a bigger squad of skorchas and get more concentrated fire for more points (e.g. tellyporta).
You could also just sprinkle some in a boyz or a nobz unit. A skorcha does roughly double the damage output of a boyz unit in the shooting phase, and 12" is longer range than the 9" dakka range anyway. You just wouldn't be able to take a klaw.
koooaei wrote: They've never been optimal, so why not run them anyways. If anything, skorchas nobz are better than they used to be. Well, maybe 5th skorchas were better but still not an optimal unit by any means.
Then why even give them that option... what are they supposed to do with skorchas? was it supposed to be a 1of upgrade in a squad or something? what is the purpose of the skorcha on the nobz sprue?
Kombi Skorcha on nobz/meganobz USED to be an amazing choice in the past.
Flamers as a whole have kinda fallen from grace. Gotta remember the nob kit is fairly old
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
No i saw your memo and i ignored it.
It makes ZERO SENSE to retroactively change a unit to suddenly have a massive restriction. Especially when they have NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE. Even more especially when its a FW model that isnt even that popular since its fugly as hell.
Squiggoths are not going to be beastsnagga only. I'd be shocked if they even get Squig keyword.
That strat can easily be 2 things: 1) meant for the Rig and they fethed up (add it to the pile!) or 2) futureproofing for when we get rampaging squigosaurs w/o a boss on top. Its always possible theres another unit that either they purposely held back or decided wasnt ready to be shipped so they snipped it out of this release.
I mean they did say in the last preview these were the last new ork models but sure we will go with the adding keywords for models that don’t exist like every other example such as ……. I mean it’s obvious not the current squiggoth which already has the monster keyword and os a giant squig… but sure we will go with your theory. Conspiracy theories are popular now a days because if you just ignore something that means it doesn’t exist amirite?
Regarding never changing models to add massive restrictions. I mean there was a lot of that.. from straight up removing the entire transport capacity of models like the vendetta. To changing every space marine transport to restrict them from transporting primarus but sure other then those examples and others it’s never happened.
claiming i've got the conspiracy theories and you dont when the first point i had is extremely common and your evidence has never happened is pretty funny, not gonna lie. The only thing FW has ever been updated with is the army-wide keywords needed to even function at all with the new codex. Nothing else.
There are at least 8 severe mistakes in this codex, whats a 9th one? (severe as in either flatout broken or extremely confusing, not just dumb decisions)
Vineheart01 wrote: claiming i've got the conspiracy theories and you dont when the first point i had is extremely common and your evidence has never happened is pretty funny, not gonna lie.
The only thing FW has ever been updated with is the army-wide keywords needed to even function at all with the new codex. Nothing else.
There are at least 8 severe mistakes in this codex, whats a 9th one? (severe as in either flatout broken or extremely confusing, not just dumb decisions)
I mean I do have the monster and beast snagga key word and you have diddly squat..
And I do have the many many times gw/fw straight up added restrictions to transports. From literally removing all transport capacity on the vendetta, to adding restrictions on all the space marine vehicles, to the several times they added and removed terminators as viable transport options. I believe there was a point trukks couldn’t transport meganobs and there was a point where Gw just randomly said ogryns couldn’t use a chimera. So yeaaa but it’s never happened other then those examples.
koooaei wrote: They've never been optimal, so why not run them anyways. If anything, skorchas nobz are better than they used to be. Well, maybe 5th skorchas were better but still not an optimal unit by any means.
Then why even give them that option... what are they supposed to do with skorchas? was it supposed to be a 1of upgrade in a squad or something? what is the purpose of the skorcha on the nobz sprue?
Because before the current dark times of "This kit only has this weapon and you'll either like it or go play something else", wargear was pretty much a free-for-all for most HQ's and since Nobz (kinda like Chosen for Chaos and Sternguard for marines) get the first pick of the loot right after the Warboss they always had the chance to grab wathever they liked best and in game that's represented by being able to get every special weapon you want on each one of them.
Not all options are meant to be "competitive" since it's nice to leave the spot open for someone wanting a narrative team of Nobz or simply a "take all comers unit" (the latter feeling weaker now because flamers aren't really that good but when templates were still a thing having a couple of combi-HEAVY-flamers in a squad skyrocketed them in threat potential against light infantry since it meant you could punish them hard with it).
Giving three flamers to a squad of 10 nobz today will just make your charge longer but 10 years ago it was a wise move to make sure they could erase veichles/instakill charachters with their Klaws (just a couple were more than enough to cleave through anything short of a land rider 99% of the times) or erase a small squad of infantry by dropping three flame-templates.
Just because the game as it stands pushes toward specializing units doesn't mean that subpar options are bad, they're simply waiting for their time and THANK Gork & Mork that they haven't cut them down yet.
I see. I will still try to run 'em because I like the models and put significant effort into getting a squad of 5 skorchas.
So something related to this: - do embarked units profit from the shooting while in CC rule or is it specifically for vehicles only? I dont have a BRB (yet) so I cant really check this - can I re-roll skorcha/burna hits with the new DS klan or is the kultur useless for flamer type weapons?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Asking cause I cant decide between blood axes for fallback & roast or sticking to DS to profit from the new D6 autohits
pepi55 wrote: I see. I will still try to run 'em because I like the models and put significant effort into getting a squad of 5 skorchas.
So something related to this:
- do embarked units profit from the shooting while in CC rule or is it specifically for vehicles only? I dont have a BRB (yet) so I cant really check this
- can I re-roll skorcha/burna hits with the new DS klan or is the kultur useless for flamer type weapons?
Embarked units can only shoot in CC presuming it is open-topped when they are using pistols only. So you can't fire your kombi skorchas into combat while in a trukk.
You can only reroll the to-wound roll for skorcha/burnas, not the actual amount of hits fired by them with DS.
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Blood Axes Profiles: . Blood Axes: Description:- Each time a ranged attack is made against a unit with this kultur, if the attacker is more than 18" away, then the unit with this kultur is treated as having the benefits of light cover against that attack.
- Units with this kultur are eligible to shoot or declare a charge with (but not both) in a turn in which they Fell Back.|
Warboss [5 PL, 95pts]: Attack Squig [5pts], Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Blood Axes . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Attack Squig, Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.|Codex: Orks 2021 p87
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.|
. I've Got A Plan, Ladz!: Description:At the end of the Deploy Forces step, select up to three BLODD AXES units from your army and redeploy them. IF the mission uses the Strategic Reserves rules, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves without having to spend any additional CPs, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves. If both players have abilities that redeploy units, roll off: the winner chooses who redeploys their units first.|Codex: Orks 2021 p133
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.|Codex: Orks 2021 p94
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p84
. Attack Squig: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:4|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time a model with an attack squig fights, it can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon and no more than 2 attacks can be made with this weapon.|Codex: Orks 2021 p94
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p121
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.|Codex: Orks 2021 p130
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p91
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p89
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.|Codex: Orks 2021 p121
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
+ Elites [9 PL, 200pts] +
Burna Boyz [3 PL, 60pts] . Categories:Burna Boyz, Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Core, Mob . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Pyromaniaks . 4x Burna Boy [44pts]: 4x Burna, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Burna Boy, Weapon:Burna, Stikkbomb . Spanner [16pts]: Kustom Mega-Blasta [5pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Mekaniak, Unit:Spanner, Weapon:Kustom Mega-Blasta, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Mekaniak: Description:At the end of your Movement phase, this model can repair one friendly <CLAN> VEHICLE model within 3" of it. That VEHICLE model regains 1 lost wound. Each model can only be repaired once per turn.|Codex: Orks 2021 p98
. Pyromaniaks: Description:If an enemy unit is destroyed by an attack made with a burna by this unit, until your next turn, each time a Morale test is taken for this unit, it is automatically passed.|Codex: Orks 2021 p97
. Burna Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p97
. Spanner: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p95
. Burna: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, that attack automatically hits the target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p97
. Kustom Mega-Blasta: Range:24"|Type:Assault D3|S:8|AP:-3|D6|Abilities:Blast. If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting this weapon.|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
Nobz [6 PL, 140pts]: Pyromaniacs
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Faction: Pyromaniacs, Specialist Mob . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Pyromaniacs . Boss Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.|
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
. Pyromaniacs: Description:Each time a PYROMANIACS model shoots with a burna, a skorcha, burna bottles, burna exhaust, a killa jet, skorcha missile racks or the Skorcha profile or a kombi-skorcha, if, when determing the number of attacks for that weapon, the dice rolled results in less than 3 attacks being made, make 3 attacks instead.|
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p102
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p102
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
+ Heavy Support [3 PL, 45pts] +
Mek Gunz [3 PL, 45pts] . Categories:Artillery, Heavy Support, Vehicle, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Mek Gunz, Gretchin . Abilities:Ramshackle . Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Bubblechukka
. . Abilities:Artillery and Crew, Bubblechukka, Bubblechukka Profile:Bubblechukka - 1, Bubblechukka - 2, Bubblechukka - 3, Unit:Mek Gun Profiles: . Artillery and Crew: Description:Eachj Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models. This unit cannot advance, is never eligible to charge or Heroically Intervene, and cannot make pile-in or consolidation moves.|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Bubblechukka: Description:After selecting targets, roll one D3 to determine which of the profiles to make attacks with. If a unit contains more than one bubblechukka that is targeting the same unit, determine the profiles for each weapon separately before any attacks are resolved against that target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)|Codex: Orks 2021 p113
. Bubblechukka - 1: D3:1|Result:Big Bubble|Range:48"|Type:Heavy 3D3|S:6|AP:-2|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Bubblechukka - 2: D3:2|Result:Wobbly Bubble|Range:48"|Type:Heavy D6|S:8|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Bubblechukka - 3: D3:3|Resultense Bubble|Range:48"|Type:Heavy 1|S:10|AP:-4|D3+3|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Mek Gun: M:3"|WS:5+|BS:4+|S:2|T:5|W:6|A:6|Ld:4|Save:5+|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
+ Dedicated Transport [4 PL, 70pts] +
Trukk [4 PL, 70pts]: Big Shoota
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.|
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.|
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)|Codex: Orks 2021 p113
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book). ()
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1. (Codex: Orks 2021 p81)
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability. (Codex: Orks 2021 p82)
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength (Codex: Orks 2021 p82)
And the second list essentially consists of 2 units on the battlefield... 1 trukk that looks like a fireworks platform and 1 mob of 10 boiz doing whatever.
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Blood Axes Profiles: . Blood Axes: Description:- Each time a ranged attack is made against a unit with this kultur, if the attacker is more than 18" away, then the unit with this kultur is treated as having the benefits of light cover against that attack.
- Units with this kultur are eligible to shoot or declare a charge with (but not both) in a turn in which they Fell Back.
Warboss [5 PL, 95pts]: Attack Squig [5pts], Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Blood Axes . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Attack Squig, Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. I've Got A Plan, Ladz!: Description:At the end of the Deploy Forces step, select up to three BLODD AXES units from your army and redeploy them. IF the mission uses the Strategic Reserves rules, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves without having to spend any additional CPs, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves. If both players have abilities that redeploy units, roll off: the winner chooses who redeploys their units first.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Attack Squig: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:4|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time a model with an attack squig fights, it can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon and no more than 2 attacks can be made with this weapon.
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 140pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 140pts]: Pyromaniacs
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Faction: Pyromaniacs, Specialist Mob . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Pyromaniacs . Boss Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Pyromaniacs: Description:Each time a PYROMANIACS model shoots with a burna, a skorcha, burna bottles, burna exhaust, a killa jet, skorcha missile racks or the Skorcha profile or a kombi-skorcha, if, when determing the number of attacks for that weapon, the dice rolled results in less than 3 attacks being made, make 3 attacks instead.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [4 PL, 90pts] +
Lootas [4 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Heavy Support, Lootas, Core . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . 4x Loota [68pts]: 4x Deffgun, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Loota, Weapon:Deffgun, Stikkbomb . Spanner [22pts]: Big Shoota [5pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Mekaniak, Unit:Spanner, Weapon:Big Shoota, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Mekaniak: Description:At the end of your Movement phase, this model can repair one friendly <CLAN> VEHICLE model within 3" of it. That VEHICLE model regains 1 lost wound. Each model can only be repaired once per turn.
. Loota: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Spanner: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Deffgun: Range:48"|Typeakka 3/2|S:7|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 85pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 85pts]: Big Shoota, Squig-hide Tyres [1 PL, 15pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Squig-hide Tyres, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Squig-hide Tyres: Description:VEHICLE model only (excluding WALKERS and AIRCRAFT).
- Add 1! to this model's Move characteristic.
- Each time this model Advances, add an additional 2" to this model's Move characteristic.
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Also, why do people consider the lootas bad?? sure they cant advance and shoot but a WS of 3+ on a weapon that is very likely to be 3 S7 shots sounds amazing.
Put 'em in a tin can of some sort and enjoy the fireworks. Mandatory spanners is a bummer though, but the deffguns + a KMB for 100 pts sounds like an effective anti-vehicle unit if you manage to give them some transporty armour
pepi55 wrote: I see. I will still try to run 'em because I like the models and put significant effort into getting a squad of 5 skorchas.
So something related to this:
- do embarked units profit from the shooting while in CC rule or is it specifically for vehicles only? I dont have a BRB (yet) so I cant really check this
- can I re-roll skorcha/burna hits with the new DS klan or is the kultur useless for flamer type weapons?
Embarked units can only shoot in CC presuming it is open-topped when they are using pistols only. So you can't fire your kombi skorchas into combat while in a trukk.
You can only reroll the to-wound roll for skorcha/burnas, not the actual amount of hits fired by them with DS.
Good to know. I think Blood axes will be better in this case then
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Blood Axes Profiles: . Blood Axes: Description:- Each time a ranged attack is made against a unit with this kultur, if the attacker is more than 18" away, then the unit with this kultur is treated as having the benefits of light cover against that attack.
- Units with this kultur are eligible to shoot or declare a charge with (but not both) in a turn in which they Fell Back.|
Warboss [5 PL, 95pts]: Attack Squig [5pts], Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Blood Axes . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Attack Squig, Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.|Codex: Orks 2021 p87
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.|
. I've Got A Plan, Ladz!: Description:At the end of the Deploy Forces step, select up to three BLODD AXES units from your army and redeploy them. IF the mission uses the Strategic Reserves rules, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves without having to spend any additional CPs, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves. If both players have abilities that redeploy units, roll off: the winner chooses who redeploys their units first.|Codex: Orks 2021 p133
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.|Codex: Orks 2021 p94
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p84
. Attack Squig: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:4|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time a model with an attack squig fights, it can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon and no more than 2 attacks can be made with this weapon.|Codex: Orks 2021 p94
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p121
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.|Codex: Orks 2021 p130
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p91
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p89
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.|Codex: Orks 2021 p121
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
+ Elites [9 PL, 200pts] +
Burna Boyz [3 PL, 60pts] . Categories:Burna Boyz, Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Core, Mob . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Pyromaniaks . 4x Burna Boy [44pts]: 4x Burna, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Burna Boy, Weapon:Burna, Stikkbomb . Spanner [16pts]: Kustom Mega-Blasta [5pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Mekaniak, Unit:Spanner, Weapon:Kustom Mega-Blasta, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Mekaniak: Description:At the end of your Movement phase, this model can repair one friendly <CLAN> VEHICLE model within 3" of it. That VEHICLE model regains 1 lost wound. Each model can only be repaired once per turn.|Codex: Orks 2021 p98
. Pyromaniaks: Description:If an enemy unit is destroyed by an attack made with a burna by this unit, until your next turn, each time a Morale test is taken for this unit, it is automatically passed.|Codex: Orks 2021 p97
. Burna Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p97
. Spanner: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+|Codex: Orks 2021 p95
. Burna: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, that attack automatically hits the target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p97
. Kustom Mega-Blasta: Range:24"|Type:Assault D3|S:8|AP:-3|D6|Abilities:Blast. If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting this weapon.|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
Nobz [6 PL, 140pts]: Pyromaniacs
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Faction: Pyromaniacs, Specialist Mob . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Pyromaniacs . Boss Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.|
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
. Pyromaniacs: Description:Each time a PYROMANIACS model shoots with a burna, a skorcha, burna bottles, burna exhaust, a killa jet, skorcha missile racks or the Skorcha profile or a kombi-skorcha, if, when determing the number of attacks for that weapon, the dice rolled results in less than 3 attacks being made, make 3 attacks instead.|
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p102
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p102
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p120
+ Heavy Support [3 PL, 45pts] +
Mek Gunz [3 PL, 45pts] . Categories:Artillery, Heavy Support, Vehicle, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Mek Gunz, Gretchin . Abilities:Ramshackle . Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Bubblechukka
. . Abilities:Artillery and Crew, Bubblechukka, Bubblechukka Profile:Bubblechukka - 1, Bubblechukka - 2, Bubblechukka - 3, Unit:Mek Gun Profiles: . Artillery and Crew: Description:Eachj Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models. This unit cannot advance, is never eligible to charge or Heroically Intervene, and cannot make pile-in or consolidation moves.|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Bubblechukka: Description:After selecting targets, roll one D3 to determine which of the profiles to make attacks with. If a unit contains more than one bubblechukka that is targeting the same unit, determine the profiles for each weapon separately before any attacks are resolved against that target.|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)|Codex: Orks 2021 p113
. Bubblechukka - 1: D3:1|Result:Big Bubble|Range:48"|Type:Heavy 3D3|S:6|AP:-2|D:1|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Bubblechukka - 2: D3:2|Result:Wobbly Bubble|Range:48"|Type:Heavy D6|S:8|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:Blast|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Bubblechukka - 3: D3:3|Resultense Bubble|Range:48"|Type:Heavy 1|S:10|AP:-4|D3+3|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
. Mek Gun: M:3"|WS:5+|BS:4+|S:2|T:5|W:6|A:6|Ld:4|Save:5+|Codex: Orks 2021 p109
+ Dedicated Transport [4 PL, 70pts] +
Trukk [4 PL, 70pts]: Big Shoota
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.|
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.|
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)|Codex: Orks 2021 p113
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+|Codex: Orks 2021 p118
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-|Codex: Orks 2021 p119
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book). ()
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1. (Codex: Orks 2021 p81)
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability. (Codex: Orks 2021 p82)
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength (Codex: Orks 2021 p82)
And the second list essentially consists of 2 units on the battlefield... 1 trukk that looks like a fireworks platform and 1 mob of 10 boiz doing whatever.
Clan Kultur: Blood Axes
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Blood Axes Profiles: . Blood Axes: Description:- Each time a ranged attack is made against a unit with this kultur, if the attacker is more than 18" away, then the unit with this kultur is treated as having the benefits of light cover against that attack.
- Units with this kultur are eligible to shoot or declare a charge with (but not both) in a turn in which they Fell Back.
Warboss [5 PL, 95pts]: Attack Squig [5pts], Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Blood Axes . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, I've Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kombi-skorcha, Warboss (Aura), Unit:Warboss, Weapon:Attack Squig, Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. I've Got A Plan, Ladz!: Description:At the end of the Deploy Forces step, select up to three BLODD AXES units from your army and redeploy them. IF the mission uses the Strategic Reserves rules, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves without having to spend any additional CPs, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves. If both players have abilities that redeploy units, roll off: the winner chooses who redeploys their units first.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Attack Squig: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:4|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time a model with an attack squig fights, it can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon and no more than 2 attacks can be made with this weapon.
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 140pts] +
Nobz [6 PL, 140pts]: Pyromaniacs
. Categories:Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Faction: Pyromaniacs, Specialist Mob . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . Abilities:Keepin' Order, Pyromaniacs . Boss Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb . Nob [28pts]: Kombi-skorcha [10pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Kombi-skorcha, Unit:Nob, Weapon:Shoota, Skorcha, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Pyromaniacs: Description:Each time a PYROMANIACS model shoots with a burna, a skorcha, burna bottles, burna exhaust, a killa jet, skorcha missile racks or the Skorcha profile or a kombi-skorcha, if, when determing the number of attacks for that weapon, the dice rolled results in less than 3 attacks being made, make 3 attacks instead.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Heavy Support [4 PL, 90pts] +
Lootas [4 PL, 90pts] . Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Heavy Support, Lootas, Core . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule . 4x Loota [68pts]: 4x Deffgun, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Loota, Weapon:Deffgun, Stikkbomb . Spanner [22pts]: Big Shoota [5pts], Stikkbombs
. . Abilities:Mekaniak, Unit:Spanner, Weapon:Big Shoota, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Mekaniak: Description:At the end of your Movement phase, this model can repair one friendly <CLAN> VEHICLE model within 3" of it. That VEHICLE model regains 1 lost wound. Each model can only be repaired once per turn.
. Loota: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Spanner: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Deffgun: Range:48"|Typeakka 3/2|S:7|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 85pts] +
Trukk [5 PL, 85pts]: Big Shoota, Squig-hide Tyres [1 PL, 15pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport . Rules:'Ere We Go! . Abilities:Explodes, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Squig-hide Tyres, Transport:Trukk, Unit:Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon:Big Shoota Profiles: . Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Squig-hide Tyres: Description:VEHICLE model only (excluding WALKERS and AIRCRAFT).
- Add 1! to this model's Move characteristic.
- Each time this model Advances, add an additional 2" to this model's Move characteristic.
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
++ Roster Rules ++
. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.
To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.
A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.
WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.
Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.
SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.
. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength
Also, why do people consider the lootas bad?? sure they cant advance and shoot but a WS of 3+ on a weapon that is very likely to be 3 S7 shots sounds amazing.
Put 'em in a tin can of some sort and enjoy the fireworks. Mandatory spanners is a bummer though, but the deffguns + a KMB for 100 pts sounds like an effective anti-vehicle unit if you manage to give them some transporty armour
pepi55 wrote: I see. I will still try to run 'em because I like the models and put significant effort into getting a squad of 5 skorchas.
So something related to this:
- do embarked units profit from the shooting while in CC rule or is it specifically for vehicles only? I dont have a BRB (yet) so I cant really check this
- can I re-roll skorcha/burna hits with the new DS klan or is the kultur useless for flamer type weapons?
Embarked units can only shoot in CC presuming it is open-topped when they are using pistols only. So you can't fire your kombi skorchas into combat while in a trukk.
You can only reroll the to-wound roll for skorcha/burnas, not the actual amount of hits fired by them with DS.
Good to know. I think Blood axes will be better in this case then
Lootas are subpar because their price point is still prohibitive given that you are paying for a BS5+ (WS3+ doesn't really matter when they are not meant to be in combat) with an average of 1 hit per guy assuming you're in half range, which requires further investment in a trukk for them to be useful. At this point, you're better off with cheaper and more consistent platforms like buggies or even Dakkajets if you want weight of fire.
Strongly considering leaning hard into mortal wound Burna bommers and the Rukkatrukk squipbuggies for the alpha strike potential and msu approach. It appears one of the better ways of hammering armies that rely on deploying on obscuring terrain (notably sisters players abusing the untargetable bodyguard rule and celestine/gemni) and or hordes of durable objective secured (ad mech/necrons). My current thinking is a freebooterz list around 4 flyers, 3 Rukkatrukks, 2 Kill rigs.
Spoiler:
Double Patrol Points
1st Patrol
Freebooterz
Deffkilla Wartrike 120
Da Badskull Banna, JunkBoss
10x Grots 50
10x tankbustas 175
>Bomb squig
5xKommados 50
1xRukkatrukk Sguigbuggies 90
1xRukkatrukk Sguigbuggies 90
Kill Rig 190
Dakka Jet 120
>6 supa shootas
Burna Bommer 150
> Skorcha Missles
2nd Patrol
Freebooterz
Beast Boss 145
>Brutal but Kunnin, Beast Hide Mantle
10x Grots 50
5xKommados 50
5xKommados 50
1xRukkatrukk Sguigbuggies 90
Kill Rig 190
10x Lootas 170
Burna Bommer 150
> Skorcha Missles
Burna Bommer 150
> Skorcha Missles
Total 2,000 pts
Edit: Nevermind... Kill rigs only hold beast snagga infantry. Got to re-think the list and go back to the drawing board...
Da Booma: 15pts - Convert a KillKannon into Da Booma. Goes from Range 24' D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg to Range 36' 2D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg.
This is crap. The KillKannon hasn't been useful since they removed Pie plates because Ork blast weapons DO NOT work like Space Marine and Imperial Guard blast weapons and GW has literally never figured this out..possibly because they have zero understanding of how the Ork army works. D6 shots for orkz works out to 1.16ish hits a turn. So the Kill Kannon averages 1 wound vs T4 a turn. Against T5+ its even lower (0.77) So you are thinking "Ok it sucks, so upgrading it makes it better right!" no. 2D6 shots averages 7 shots a turn which works out to 2.33 hits a turn. Its twice as good, the added range is nice but look at the cost. The KillKannon is 10pts, the upgrade which doubles its shot output and adds 12' range is 15pts. So you are paying 25pts for a weapon system that will literally hit 2.33 times a turn. For comparison, a regular Battlecannon on a Leman russ standing still gets 2D6 shots and averages 3.5 hits a turn. I can already here people saying "But Semper, what if I put it on the Gunwagon and use its periscope to make it functionally BS4+!" Cool. Now its 3.5 hits a turn for the low low price of 190pts. You are now paying as much as a IG player pays for a Leman russ tank with a battlecannon and 3x Heavy Bolters.
Fortress on Wheels: 20pts - I mean...go for it if you really want, Wagonz this edition are in a bad place regardless, but giving it a 5+ invuln wouldn't be bad. Sadly the price is too high, especially for the Trukkz, you are increasing the cost of the trukk by about 30% just to give it a 5++. I could see that it would have been useful on a bonebreaker, if the BB wasn't already heavily over priced at 175pts.
Gyroscopic Whirlygig: 10pts - Ignore Mortal wounds on a Shokkjump Dragsta from its Shokk Tunnel ability. Might be useful if you are using it for scoring points and harassing the enemies backfield, but honestly...its 10pts to ignore a 50% chance at an average of 2mortals.
More Dakka: 15/30pts - This is good...sadly its over priced. Every time you shoot roll a D6, on a 4+ it gains +1 shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 it gains +2 shots. The only unit I can think of that would really benefit from this is the Dakkajet and it means you have a 33% chance to add 6 shots (2 hits), a 16.6% chance of gaining 12 shots (4 hits) and a 50% chance of doing nothing. If this was just a flat 15pt upgrade and your weapons gained 1 attack each it would have been good, the uncertainty of the upgrade means that its going to be swingy as hell and will either lend you a critical additional 2 hits or be a complete waste of 15pts on a Dakkajet. Keep in mind, our fliers are not what most would consider durable
Nitro Squigs: 25pts - This is good, but I still think its over priced. on the Squigbuggy, your squig launchas gain +1 to wound. So against ANYTHING in the game you are going to be wounding on at least 4s, against T4 and below its 2s. only problem like I said, is the points cost. 25pts is almost 28% of the price of a squigbuggy. If you could have given this to the entire squadron than yeah absolutely. But on a single model? Meh. Average Dmg increase against T4 Infantry, assuming 18' range. 2D6 shots = 7, BS4+ = 3.5 hits 1D6 shots = 3.5 shots = 1.16 hits, 4.66 hits = 3.1 wounds W/nitro squigs its 4.66 hits and 3.88 wounds. So you are paying 25pts to increase average dmg per turn by 0.78, not exactly worth it. On a squadron of 3 it would have been 2.34 and worth it at 25pts, but on a single model? I'll pass.
Red Rolla: 20pts - Hard pass. On a bonebreaker your Deffrolla goes from D6 extra attacks on the charge to D3+3. D6 averages 3.5 extra attacks, D3+3 averages 5. So again, 20pts to gain 1.5 attacks HARD HARD HARD pass, especially on a unit that is already heavily over priced.
Shokka Hull: 15/30pts - Not terrible, a bit pricey but not terrible. Put this on a vehicle, get it into CC and when someone attacks it they suffer D3 Mortal wounds on a 4+. Also, its EVERY time its selected as a target by a unit. So if 4 units swing at your vehicle they each roll a D6 and on a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortals. Very gimmicky and going to be hard to really make use of it given how bad our good CC vehicles have become but it would be funny if nothing else
Souped Up Speshul: 10pts - Changes the shots on the Mek Speshul from 14/10 to 16/12....So its just an extra 2 shots So 10pts nets you an average of 0.66 more hits a turn. ....Do you guys see why I think GW are incompetent when it comes to writing ork rules? Unless you had 10pts left over and have literally nothing else you could possibly want to spend it on...why would you ever take this?
Squig-Hide Tyres: 15pts - Good! Vehicles only, excludes flyers and walkers. Add 1 to move and 2 to advance. So why do I think this is good? Put it on a Killrig, it now averages 13 movement and 5.5 advance for 18.5 distance leaving you with a 6-7' charge turn 1 during a WAAAAGH! There are a bunch of other things you can do with it, but speed is good, I wish it was cheaper but meh.
Stompamatic Pistons: 15-30pts - not sure honestly. At 15pts for a Dread its pretty expensive to get +3 movement and +1 advance, especially since I don't see dreads being on the table turn 1. Plus making them Movement 9, even with the best advance roll you are still 8+ to charge turn 1 against the enemy, and its only on 1 model as we mentioned. On the Mork/gork/stompa its 30pts, That gives them Movement 11 and Movement 13, Add in the average advance movement to 4.5 and the Nautz are still 8.5 away or an 8' charge at best, the Stompa I think it would be worth it, That makes it 17.5 movement and gives him 6' charge turn 1 which would be DEVASTATING. Granted its a all or nothing thing, because if you don't get into CC turn 1 you are likely losing the game
BONUS! Mek Kustom Jobz.
I'm going to be using these on the premise that they only apply to mekz and Spannas even though in GW's hamfisted ways they forgot to mention it, I'm just assuming its RAI.
Bionik Oiler: 10pts - Dumb, useless and No. an oiler is 5pts, this lets you use it twice for 10pts, so you are paying 15pts to get the benefit of 10pts of oiler.
Enhanced Runt Sucker: 15pts - Also Dumb. Take the massively over priced SAG, now pay an extra 15pts to change it from D6 to 2D3. Hard pass.
Extra-Kustom Weapon: 10pts - It just add 1 extra shot for Kustom Weapons, assuming its for a single model since it says "Model equipped" that means you are paying 10pts for 1 extra shot at either 4+ or 5+ on a kustom weapon. To my knowledge no mek has more than 1 of these guns attached so you are paying for the entire cost of another Kustom Mega weapon to gain 1 extra shot from the one you already have. If you could put this on a Dread it would make sense, as it currently stands...No.
Smoky Gubbinz: 1ppm - Assuming a max unit you are paying 15pts to give that unit Light cover if it doesn't move. The only units that can do this are burna's and Lootas. Burna's will be in a vehicle and Lootas will be as well or they will already be in cover. So this makes no sense and is kind of pointless.
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
Overall I am not impressed with these. Most could be good if they weren't so heavily over priced, some are just hot garbage and others just make you ask WTF was GW thinking?
SemperMortis wrote: Kustom Job Review:
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
45 attacks. 30 hits. 1 in 6 become mortals. 5 mortals. On top of the other damage. If you do go Goff burnas zzapkrumpaz with all the buffs in the world (ws 2+, rerolls to hit, explodings 5s) then the mortals wounds can start to get considerable. A lot of CP and investment though.
They're mostly a way to dump leftover points.
But nitro squigs are great. Also, as mentioned above, + extra movement for your killrig is amazing in a small game.
SemperMortis wrote: Kustom Job Review:
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
45 attacks. 30 hits. 1 in 6 become mortals. 5 mortals. On top of the other damage. If you do go Goff burnas zzapkrumpaz with all the buffs in the world (ws 2+, rerolls to hit, explodings 5s) then the mortals wounds can start to get considerable. A lot of CP and investment though.
Zzapkrumpaz is quite good I think. On a unit of 9-10 trukk burnas is 18-20 points and combined with pyromaniacs and eventually the stratagem for AP-2 in combat contributes to make the unit quite good. IMHO it's a must have with burnaboyz, and also gives a purpose to the useless spanner.
Forktress on wheels is also an auto take if you want a BW.
I like Shokka Hull on a Deffkilla Wartrike with Roadkilla warlord trait. Combined with Ramming Speed there's the chance to inflict 3-9 MWs only by the charge, which sounds hilarious.
Gunwagon with Da Booma is a bit underwhelming but still legit I think. Upgraded with boomboyz the gun is flat AP-3 and AP-4 in the speedwaaagh turns.
Any kustom job that gives a few extra attacks on a BS5 model is completely useless
And that's why most most of these are completely useless.
Now some will say we can hit on 4's with freebooters.
Yeah. But you have to kill a unit first in shooting. Which is easier said than done.
Shoka hull sounds like a fun job to put on a melee
Vehicle. Deffkilla wartrike for example.
But for the most part I find orks get value from having as many hard to kill wounds on the board as possible, at high saves etc and the xtra points costs of upgrades of any kind. Equipment/kustomjobs/etc often don't seem worth it to me.
I usually go with a clean basic unit.
Da Booma: 15pts - Convert a KillKannon into Da Booma. Goes from Range 24' D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg to Range 36' 2D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg.
This is crap. The KillKannon hasn't been useful since they removed Pie plates because Ork blast weapons DO NOT work like Space Marine and Imperial Guard blast weapons and GW has literally never figured this out..possibly because they have zero understanding of how the Ork army works. D6 shots for orkz works out to 1.16ish hits a turn. So the Kill Kannon averages 1 wound vs T4 a turn. Against T5+ its even lower (0.77) So you are thinking "Ok it sucks, so upgrading it makes it better right!" no. 2D6 shots averages 7 shots a turn which works out to 2.33 hits a turn. Its twice as good, the added range is nice but look at the cost. The KillKannon is 10pts, the upgrade which doubles its shot output and adds 12' range is 15pts. So you are paying 25pts for a weapon system that will literally hit 2.33 times a turn. For comparison, a regular Battlecannon on a Leman russ standing still gets 2D6 shots and averages 3.5 hits a turn. I can already here people saying "But Semper, what if I put it on the Gunwagon and use its periscope to make it functionally BS4+!" Cool. Now its 3.5 hits a turn for the low low price of 190pts. You are now paying as much as a IG player pays for a Leman russ tank with a battlecannon and 3x Heavy Bolters.
Fortress on Wheels: 20pts - I mean...go for it if you really want, Wagonz this edition are in a bad place regardless, but giving it a 5+ invuln wouldn't be bad. Sadly the price is too high, especially for the Trukkz, you are increasing the cost of the trukk by about 30% just to give it a 5++. I could see that it would have been useful on a bonebreaker, if the BB wasn't already heavily over priced at 175pts.
Gyroscopic Whirlygig: 10pts - Ignore Mortal wounds on a Shokkjump Dragsta from its Shokk Tunnel ability. Might be useful if you are using it for scoring points and harassing the enemies backfield, but honestly...its 10pts to ignore a 50% chance at an average of 2mortals.
More Dakka: 15/30pts - This is good...sadly its over priced. Every time you shoot roll a D6, on a 4+ it gains +1 shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 it gains +2 shots. The only unit I can think of that would really benefit from this is the Dakkajet and it means you have a 33% chance to add 6 shots (2 hits), a 16.6% chance of gaining 12 shots (4 hits) and a 50% chance of doing nothing. If this was just a flat 15pt upgrade and your weapons gained 1 attack each it would have been good, the uncertainty of the upgrade means that its going to be swingy as hell and will either lend you a critical additional 2 hits or be a complete waste of 15pts on a Dakkajet. Keep in mind, our fliers are not what most would consider durable
Nitro Squigs: 25pts - This is good, but I still think its over priced. on the Squigbuggy, your squig launchas gain +1 to wound. So against ANYTHING in the game you are going to be wounding on at least 4s, against T4 and below its 2s. only problem like I said, is the points cost. 25pts is almost 28% of the price of a squigbuggy. If you could have given this to the entire squadron than yeah absolutely. But on a single model? Meh. Average Dmg increase against T4 Infantry, assuming 18' range. 2D6 shots = 7, BS4+ = 3.5 hits 1D6 shots = 3.5 shots = 1.16 hits, 4.66 hits = 3.1 wounds W/nitro squigs its 4.66 hits and 3.88 wounds. So you are paying 25pts to increase average dmg per turn by 0.78, not exactly worth it. On a squadron of 3 it would have been 2.34 and worth it at 25pts, but on a single model? I'll pass.
Red Rolla: 20pts - Hard pass. On a bonebreaker your Deffrolla goes from D6 extra attacks on the charge to D3+3. D6 averages 3.5 extra attacks, D3+3 averages 5. So again, 20pts to gain 1.5 attacks HARD HARD HARD pass, especially on a unit that is already heavily over priced.
Shokka Hull: 15/30pts - Not terrible, a bit pricey but not terrible. Put this on a vehicle, get it into CC and when someone attacks it they suffer D3 Mortal wounds on a 4+. Also, its EVERY time its selected as a target by a unit. So if 4 units swing at your vehicle they each roll a D6 and on a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortals. Very gimmicky and going to be hard to really make use of it given how bad our good CC vehicles have become but it would be funny if nothing else
Souped Up Speshul: 10pts - Changes the shots on the Mek Speshul from 14/10 to 16/12....So its just an extra 2 shots So 10pts nets you an average of 0.66 more hits a turn. ....Do you guys see why I think GW are incompetent when it comes to writing ork rules? Unless you had 10pts left over and have literally nothing else you could possibly want to spend it on...why would you ever take this?
Squig-Hide Tyres: 15pts - Good! Vehicles only, excludes flyers and walkers. Add 1 to move and 2 to advance. So why do I think this is good? Put it on a Killrig, it now averages 13 movement and 5.5 advance for 18.5 distance leaving you with a 6-7' charge turn 1 during a WAAAAGH! There are a bunch of other things you can do with it, but speed is good, I wish it was cheaper but meh.
Stompamatic Pistons: 15-30pts - not sure honestly. At 15pts for a Dread its pretty expensive to get +3 movement and +1 advance, especially since I don't see dreads being on the table turn 1. Plus making them Movement 9, even with the best advance roll you are still 8+ to charge turn 1 against the enemy, and its only on 1 model as we mentioned. On the Mork/gork/stompa its 30pts, That gives them Movement 11 and Movement 13, Add in the average advance movement to 4.5 and the Nautz are still 8.5 away or an 8' charge at best, the Stompa I think it would be worth it, That makes it 17.5 movement and gives him 6' charge turn 1 which would be DEVASTATING. Granted its a all or nothing thing, because if you don't get into CC turn 1 you are likely losing the game
BONUS! Mek Kustom Jobz.
I'm going to be using these on the premise that they only apply to mekz and Spannas even though in GW's hamfisted ways they forgot to mention it, I'm just assuming its RAI.
Bionik Oiler: 10pts - Dumb, useless and No. an oiler is 5pts, this lets you use it twice for 10pts, so you are paying 15pts to get the benefit of 10pts of oiler.
Enhanced Runt Sucker: 15pts - Also Dumb. Take the massively over priced SAG, now pay an extra 15pts to change it from D6 to 2D3. Hard pass.
Extra-Kustom Weapon: 10pts - It just add 1 extra shot for Kustom Weapons, assuming its for a single model since it says "Model equipped" that means you are paying 10pts for 1 extra shot at either 4+ or 5+ on a kustom weapon. To my knowledge no mek has more than 1 of these guns attached so you are paying for the entire cost of another Kustom Mega weapon to gain 1 extra shot from the one you already have. If you could put this on a Dread it would make sense, as it currently stands...No.
Smoky Gubbinz: 1ppm - Assuming a max unit you are paying 15pts to give that unit Light cover if it doesn't move. The only units that can do this are burna's and Lootas. Burna's will be in a vehicle and Lootas will be as well or they will already be in cover. So this makes no sense and is kind of pointless.
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
Overall I am not impressed with these. Most could be good if they weren't so heavily over priced, some are just hot garbage and others just make you ask WTF was GW thinking?
Yeah, normally I would totally get in your hair for being so negative but... you are kind of right. When building lists with SotB, you'd struggle to decide which kustom jobs to leave off so you have any CP left. Now you read across the list and think go meh for almost every single one. It's very much on the same level as the DG deadly pathogenes (essentially kustom jobs for plague weapons on characters), which have one decent choice for a niche character and are gak otherwise.
These will pretty much be crusade only, where you can get them for free through collecting scrap.
It ' s a pitty, most of the strats, kustom jobs etc was changed to pretty primitive +/- some stat. All the tricka allowing you to have complicated moves (SJD, unstop momentum…) or pretty iracional “one shot, damage on both sides” tricks (eadbutt) disappeared. I don' t want them to be strong. But I believe, thay can make army different then other, interesting. Change the names of the units and weapons and the army could pretty any other not so good shooting fraction.
Decades ago I was a rule and story writer for a biggest LARP battle organized in Czech. On the beginning, the game was full of “interesting” rules that was causing a series of problems, unbalanced situations and argueing about the rules. So I made a decision to make the game crystal clear. And I did it and it was succes. Very fluent and effective game. But it lost a lot from the “magic atmosphere”. It was not visible in first year or two. New “clear” rules was something new. But very fast it becames obvious, it becames boring. Uninteresting. And it was pretty hard work to get the “interesting” back. From strict side of view, it' s impossible. You have either chess or some game with lore that suffer bugs comming from “makes a rule to play the lore”.
I really struggle to make a list in which ghaz is in these days.
Because of his great waaagh, if you dont want to completely waste him you want vehicles in your armies. but that seem counter productive if you want to go for a green tide list which was otherwise the norm before.
Finding points to have many boys but also vehicles seem difficult.
Because if you dont run both with ghaz you almost might as well not run him at all because its his great waaagh thats a selling point.
If anything i feel like he will not see play once the models for squigosaur bosses and mega armor boss is starting to get sold, because they at least have Lookout sir where ghaz does not. nor can he get healed anymore. he can only ever get a 6+++ from makari.
Beardedragon wrote: I really struggle to make a list in which ghaz is in these days.
Because of his great waaagh, if you dont want to completely waste him you want vehicles in your armies. but that seem counter productive if you want to go for a green tide list which was otherwise the norm before.
Finding points to have many boys but also vehicles seem difficult.
Because if you dont run both with ghaz you almost might as well not run him at all because its his great waaagh thats a selling point.
If anything i feel like he will not see play once the models for squigosaur bosses and mega armor boss is starting to get sold, because they at least have Lookout sir where ghaz does not. nor can he get healed anymore. he can only ever get a 6+++ from makari.
I like my ghaz list (to be fair it only has a bike, ghaz and a pair of twin big shootas as dakka wpns the majority is still assault… save the Waagh for when your ready to assault)
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/800039.page
However I think it’s hard to make a decent boys list in general.
Kommandos seem our best and cheapest way to spam pks. Seriously 5pt pk on nobs! But we are limited to 3x datasheets..
Beardedragon wrote: I really struggle to make a list in which ghaz is in these days.
Because of his great waaagh, if you dont want to completely waste him you want vehicles in your armies. but that seem counter productive if you want to go for a green tide list which was otherwise the norm before.
Finding points to have many boys but also vehicles seem difficult.
Because if you dont run both with ghaz you almost might as well not run him at all because its his great waaagh thats a selling point.
If anything i feel like he will not see play once the models for squigosaur bosses and mega armor boss is starting to get sold, because they at least have Lookout sir where ghaz does not. nor can he get healed anymore. he can only ever get a 6+++ from makari.
Not to be negative again, but that is because Ghaz no longer synergizes with any list. His points cost is prohibitive for what little he does, and I believe GW's rationale behind not giving him a significant points cut was "well he can use both Waaaaghs!" which sounds great but as mentioned, doesn't synergize well with the character itself, especially when he is so slow on the board. Not to mention they kind of nerfed him in general.
His shooting attack actually got worse because its Dakka now instead of assault, and with his 7' movement you really need him advancing. Next, while his Gofs is da best got better (Full re-rolls to hit instead of just 1s) it did get more prohibitive, but we expected this. Its only on Core and characters now, sorry dreadz. Next, Da Boss is Watching. D3 mortals and you pass morale is now Ignore negative attrition modifiers. This is teamed with the old ability now becoming a stratagem...because there is nothing I like better than inflicting D3 mortal wounds on myself except maybe having to pay 2 CP for the privilege of it. Ere we go was a general nerf, but on him it feels even worse , Finally he completely lost his inherent "Great Waaagh" rule and this became his both types of waaagh rule. And while accessing both would be considered better than before, the fact that its once a game and it only impacts 2 turns means you lose a lot of late game benefits of this.
Keep in mind, I never liked Ghaz as a competitive choice, I routinely killed him in a single turn with my lists (Triple scrapjetz easily plinked 4 wounds off in shooting phase, all would charge in, one with Ramming speed which means D3 mortals on 2+ and 3D3 mortals on 4+, than in CC the scrapjets finish him off). At best I think he is a 200pt Model, definitely not 300. Mozrog Skragbad is a better melee beat stick and is actually more durable and I can take him and a Beastboss on Squigosaur for the same price as Ghaz.
Ghaz is great if you aim for 1st turn devastating alpha-strike. Where you could have enough buggies to fill the board and can still get some of our not great but decent mellee elements that start to feel good after the initial buggy barrage to weaken the enemy units that can cleave through your trukknobz, squighogs, bikers or, on the opposite side, kommandoez and stormboyz.
Yeah, the most jarring thing about the new codex is definitely that a lot of the vehicle upgrades are irrelevant. Now it's swapped around with relics, where we actually want to take stuff besides just the killa klaw and multiple warbosses instead of just the one. Dem's the breaks I guess when you get a new army paradigm. Just wish they brought back some of the classics like bosspoles (god do we need some way to deal with morale that isn't CP based), boarding planks and brought back stuff like reinforced rams to do what buggies do and do D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ after a charge or something. Also, I still don't understand why they make the the grabbin klaw and the wreckin ball so iffy as upgrades. Don't limit the number of attacks you can make with them and have the wreckin ball do like 2 hit rolls for each attack you make with it.
Beardedragon wrote: I really struggle to make a list in which ghaz is in these days.
Because of his great waaagh, if you dont want to completely waste him you want vehicles in your armies. but that seem counter productive if you want to go for a green tide list which was otherwise the norm before.
Finding points to have many boys but also vehicles seem difficult.
Because if you dont run both with ghaz you almost might as well not run him at all because its his great waaagh thats a selling point.
If anything i feel like he will not see play once the models for squigosaur bosses and mega armor boss is starting to get sold, because they at least have Lookout sir where ghaz does not. nor can he get healed anymore. he can only ever get a 6+++ from makari.
Not to be negative again, but that is because Ghaz no longer synergizes with any list. His points cost is prohibitive for what little he does, and I believe GW's rationale behind not giving him a significant points cut was "well he can use both Waaaaghs!" which sounds great but as mentioned, doesn't synergize well with the character itself, especially when he is so slow on the board. Not to mention they kind of nerfed him in general.
His shooting attack actually got worse because its Dakka now instead of assault, and with his 7' movement you really need him advancing. Next, while his Gofs is da best got better (Full re-rolls to hit instead of just 1s) it did get more prohibitive, but we expected this. Its only on Core and characters now, sorry dreadz. Next, Da Boss is Watching. D3 mortals and you pass morale is now Ignore negative attrition modifiers. This is teamed with the old ability now becoming a stratagem...because there is nothing I like better than inflicting D3 mortal wounds on myself except maybe having to pay 2 CP for the privilege of it. Ere we go was a general nerf, but on him it feels even worse , Finally he completely lost his inherent "Great Waaagh" rule and this became his both types of waaagh rule. And while accessing both would be considered better than before, the fact that its once a game and it only impacts 2 turns means you lose a lot of late game benefits of this.
Keep in mind, I never liked Ghaz as a competitive choice, I routinely killed him in a single turn with my lists (Triple scrapjetz easily plinked 4 wounds off in shooting phase, all would charge in, one with Ramming speed which means D3 mortals on 2+ and 3D3 mortals on 4+, than in CC the scrapjets finish him off). At best I think he is a 200pt Model, definitely not 300. Mozrog Skragbad is a better melee beat stick and is actually more durable and I can take him and a Beastboss on Squigosaur for the same price as Ghaz.
true. the fact he also MUST be the warlord now also hurts him, because he is forced to take the stupid warlord trait, Proper killy. sure +1 attack is great but -1 extra AP when i already rock -4AP? who the hell even cares. This is why no one picked ghaz as a warlord but now we HAVE to do it.
How did you evaluate the MegaArmor-Warboss?
I tried him as DS with Hard as Nails and Da Krushin' Armor, backing up 5 MANz with Kombi-Scorchas parked on an objective behind a barricade.
The MANz died to buffed up DeathShroud-Terminators and PlagueMarines with 3 Chars behind (I'll forgive them, the rolls were not in my favour and I could not interrupt).
Probably could have positioned the warboss (MAB?MAW?) a bit better to intervene, too.
Next turn I could off the marines with help from a ramsquig and the warboss held on to the objective for a round after getting charged by the terminators.
Maybe he would have survived even better with the Super Cybork Body, but a virtual +0 save while ducking behind the barricade was neat and I felt that he needed the mortals for some punch (rolled a 1 on his only charge, ofc).
His 2D weapon felt kind of embarrassing against DG though and like that he was more of a nuisance instead of a threat
I think he's still fun in a green tide list, but I dont think he's gonna be a tourney staple anymore. Instead of trying to bring a mix of dakka-based units and melee-based units, just bring units that do both.
Warbikers, bonebreakas with big shootas, deff dreads and killa kanz with big shootas, Gorkanauts even, all work good.
but he's definitely now more a thing you do for quirky fun rather than a staple that you feel bad if you don't bring.
koooaei wrote: You pick him cause of the double Waaagh. If you don't need it, just go with a trike.
??? i dont pay 300 points only for a model to call da great waaagh. I also pick him for his ability to destroy things, which he doesnt do very well anymore with the nerfs he has received either directly or indirectly.
But with boys being more expensive, its way more difficult to make a mixed list that makes sense, and with ghaz, you want to infantry and mechanized.
The only unit that doesnt feel entirely out of place with him is warbikers.
The only benefit of taking him is he is in supreme command now and doesnt require troop tax or cost cp to add another detachment. It’s a third warboss when every detachment is limited to 1.
The new Waaghs require you to lean into them heavy. Dakka weapons are all over the place on mixed weapon platforms unless you go shoota boys, warbikers, dakka jets… considering the wartrike is currently the only speedwaagh outside ghaz as well. It’s like a mandatory warlord choice for me to go all in on warbikers as well… I personally feel the regular Waagh is more likely to swing the battle in your favor, but as people have said before Dakka does NOT a lend well with move advance and charge from the regular waaagh! So mixing the 2 style of lists is prohibitory. So I look at ghaz as another warboss who is hard to kill, who protects your warlord vp and is an area denial unit who buffs any units near him. That provides a regular Waagh and the few Dakka wpns able to take advantage of the benefit of speedwaagh at the same time as just a bonus.
But yes he is overpriced but he is still worth it over me taking a third detachment for 3cp to get a megawarboss (115pt), and a trukkboy (170pts) choice at approx the same cost.
I feel he's not supposed to kill stuff but to be tanky. So, skb and hard as nails are the way to go, in my opinion.
It's just that we don't have many options to deal with stuff like dg, de, da death balls in mellee cause of fight last and lack of either extreme choppiness or extreme durability. Better shoot them.
But a durable megs boss can tank literally anything on lower level of killiness. Theproblem is he needs a transport to choose his targets. Might be good in small games vs some opponents. Well, he's not too expensive for what he brings to the table anywayz.
Oh, if you're running mellee orks, I feel you shoud get an evil sun trike with redder armor. Our only way to counter fight last. At least your manz would get a swing first.
gungo wrote: The only benefit of taking him is he is in supreme command now and doesnt require troop tax or cost cp to add another detachment. It’s a third warboss when every detachment is limited to 1.
The new Waaghs require you to lean into them heavy. Dakka weapons are all over the place on mixed weapon platforms unless you go shoota boys, warbikers, dakka jets… considering the wartrike is currently the only speedwaagh outside ghaz as well. It’s like a mandatory warlord choice.
i use the warboss on warbike as speedboss as well. i feel like it would be obvious that he ends up as speedboss as well
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koooaei wrote: I feel he's not supposed to kill stuff but to be tanky. So, skb and hard as nails are the way to go, in my opinion. It's just that we don't have many options to deal with stuff like dg, de, da death balls in mellee cause of fight last and lack of either extreme choppiness or extreme durability. Better shoot them.
But a durable megs boss can tank literally anything on lower level of killiness. Theproblem is he needs a transport to choose his targets. Might be good in small games vs some opponents. Well, he's not too expensive for what he brings to the table anywayz. Oh, if you're running mellee orks, I feel you shoud get an evil sun trike with redder armor. Our only way to counter fight last. At least your manz would get a swing first.
you cant give named characters relics and warlord traits. So now he isnt tanky at all. He doesnt receive lookout sir (also didnt before), cant be healed (he could before), cant even be tellyported if you wanted to (he could before). not sure why you want to do that, but you cant even if you did.
Because of these things the most duable characters will now be squig bosses you can kit up with items and traits and mozrog who inherently has some beefy traits and abilities.
Currently thinking about where to put Opportunist in a buggy heavy list.
Either on the wartrike warlord (what else to take here, really? Kunnin but Brutal to fight first?) or on a BigMek in MegaArmor.
The BigMek could then get Tellyport Blaster and either Da Ded Shiny Shoota or KMB, but might have trouble with positioning.
Against what stats would you calculate dmg against a character?
R1ncewind wrote: Currently thinking about where to put Opportunist in a buggy heavy list.
Either on the wartrike warlord (what else to take here, really? Kunnin but Brutal to fight first?) or on a BigMek in MegaArmor.
The BigMek could then get Tellyport Blaster and either Da Ded Shiny Shoota or KMB, but might have trouble with positioning.
Against what stats would you calculate dmg against a character?
I think realistically you're going for the wartrike warlord. As much I love the idea of a shooty Big Mek tearing it up with the relic and the blaster, the fact that he needs to be within 12" means your opponent is going to have an easy time avoiding him. If you put him in a transport, he won't be able to get within ideal targets until T3 most likely at best, assuming your opponent lets your trukk get in range that easily. Deep striking him is also an option, but then opponents can just screen you out so can't be within 12" of the character unit you want to kill, so that's a big potential waste of 2CP's.
koooaei wrote: I feel he's not supposed to kill stuff but to be tanky. So, skb and hard as nails are the way to go, in my opinion. It's just that we don't have many options to deal with stuff like dg, de, da death balls in mellee cause of fight last and lack of either extreme choppiness or extreme durability. Better shoot them.
But a durable megs boss can tank literally anything on lower level of killiness. Theproblem is he needs a transport to choose his targets. Might be good in small games vs some opponents. Well, he's not too expensive for what he brings to the table anywayz. Oh, if you're running mellee orks, I feel you shoud get an evil sun trike with redder armor. Our only way to counter fight last. At least your manz would get a swing first.
you cant give named characters relics and warlord traits. So now he isnt tanky at all. He doesnt receive lookout sir (also didnt before), cant be healed (he could before), cant even be tellyported if you wanted to (he could before). not sure why you want to do that, but you cant even if you did.
Because of these things the most duable characters will now be squig bosses you can kit up with items and traits and mozrog who inherently has some beefy traits and abilities.
I think that is not about Ghaz but about the Warboss in MegaArmor
Mozgrod is our strongest HQ however his opportunity cost is you need to take snakebites and thier kultur is limited.
However the beastboss on squigasaur is really close to mozgrod and is much easier to customize especially w the crazy combo of killchoppa/BBK.
Ghaz isn’t bad… he’s just over costed slightly…. Our new codex strength is a bunch of high toughness point efficient models that are annoying to kill that make str 6/7 weapons and atks not have ideal targets to hit.. so sure go for ghaz with his 2+, 4++, 6+++, toughness 7 and 4 max wounds a turn and ignore those killrigs or beastboss on squig or warboss on bike, and 5+ buggies and toughness 6 squigriders… they all pretty much need the same types of weapons put into them.
+ Flyer + Dakkajet [9 PL, 135pts]: 2x Additional Supa Shoota, More Dakka
++ Total: [118 PL, 5CP, 1,945pts] ++
Still got 55 points to fill, maybe I will get one ranged arm each with the DeffDreads and forgo Big Krumpaz for the DS rerolls + 'orrible Gits, put forktress on the Trukk.
Just about every Strat that you used to use is gone, like Green Tide and, yes, Loot It.
A few new ones are quite good! But the majority are situational or locked to the new models.
For now, it looks like Orks will drop most of their CP in the start, with more detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics, and less during the game itself.
Loot it! is probably the stratagem I'm saddest to see go, outside of the initial broken rules interaction with MANz it was not an optimal stratagem, just a fun and fluffy one.
Madjob wrote: Loot it! is probably the stratagem I'm saddest to see go, outside of the initial broken rules interaction with MANz it was not an optimal stratagem, just a fun and fluffy one.
It was awesome for Nobz, which are a bit more useful in the new codex rather than just "because i can" type units.
Their wheelz blew up? 3+ armor.
They charged and dismantled something? 3+ armor.
Same for Flash Gitz, they'd sit in cover after looting their blown up ride and have a 2+ save. (course the one time i tried that i rolled 7 goddamn 1s out of 12 dice....)
R1ncewind wrote: How did you evaluate the MegaArmor-Warboss?
I tried him as DS with Hard as Nails and Da Krushin' Armor, backing up 5 MANz with Kombi-Scorchas parked on an objective behind a barricade.
The MANz died to buffed up DeathShroud-Terminators and PlagueMarines with 3 Chars behind (I'll forgive them, the rolls were not in my favour and I could not interrupt).
Probably could have positioned the warboss (MAB?MAW?) a bit better to intervene, too.
Next turn I could off the marines with help from a ramsquig and the warboss held on to the objective for a round after getting charged by the terminators.
Maybe he would have survived even better with the Super Cybork Body, but a virtual +0 save while ducking behind the barricade was neat and I felt that he needed the mortals for some punch (rolled a 1 on his only charge, ofc).
His 2D weapon felt kind of embarrassing against DG though and like that he was more of a nuisance instead of a threat
Does Super Cybork Body round down by the way?
I believe there is something in the rules that states you round up all dice and characteristics after applying modifiers.
Damage being the characteristic being modified in this case.
Da Booma: 15pts - Convert a KillKannon into Da Booma. Goes from Range 24' D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg to Range 36' 2D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg.
This is crap. The KillKannon hasn't been useful since they removed Pie plates because Ork blast weapons DO NOT work like Space Marine and Imperial Guard blast weapons and GW has literally never figured this out..possibly because they have zero understanding of how the Ork army works. D6 shots for orkz works out to 1.16ish hits a turn. So the Kill Kannon averages 1 wound vs T4 a turn. Against T5+ its even lower (0.77) So you are thinking "Ok it sucks, so upgrading it makes it better right!" no. 2D6 shots averages 7 shots a turn which works out to 2.33 hits a turn. Its twice as good, the added range is nice but look at the cost. The KillKannon is 10pts, the upgrade which doubles its shot output and adds 12' range is 15pts. So you are paying 25pts for a weapon system that will literally hit 2.33 times a turn. For comparison, a regular Battlecannon on a Leman russ standing still gets 2D6 shots and averages 3.5 hits a turn. I can already here people saying "But Semper, what if I put it on the Gunwagon and use its periscope to make it functionally BS4+!" Cool. Now its 3.5 hits a turn for the low low price of 190pts. You are now paying as much as a IG player pays for a Leman russ tank with a battlecannon and 3x Heavy Bolters.
Fortress on Wheels: 20pts - I mean...go for it if you really want, Wagonz this edition are in a bad place regardless, but giving it a 5+ invuln wouldn't be bad. Sadly the price is too high, especially for the Trukkz, you are increasing the cost of the trukk by about 30% just to give it a 5++. I could see that it would have been useful on a bonebreaker, if the BB wasn't already heavily over priced at 175pts.
Gyroscopic Whirlygig: 10pts - Ignore Mortal wounds on a Shokkjump Dragsta from its Shokk Tunnel ability. Might be useful if you are using it for scoring points and harassing the enemies backfield, but honestly...its 10pts to ignore a 50% chance at an average of 2mortals.
More Dakka: 15/30pts - This is good...sadly its over priced. Every time you shoot roll a D6, on a 4+ it gains +1 shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 it gains +2 shots. The only unit I can think of that would really benefit from this is the Dakkajet and it means you have a 33% chance to add 6 shots (2 hits), a 16.6% chance of gaining 12 shots (4 hits) and a 50% chance of doing nothing. If this was just a flat 15pt upgrade and your weapons gained 1 attack each it would have been good, the uncertainty of the upgrade means that its going to be swingy as hell and will either lend you a critical additional 2 hits or be a complete waste of 15pts on a Dakkajet. Keep in mind, our fliers are not what most would consider durable
Nitro Squigs: 25pts - This is good, but I still think its over priced. on the Squigbuggy, your squig launchas gain +1 to wound. So against ANYTHING in the game you are going to be wounding on at least 4s, against T4 and below its 2s. only problem like I said, is the points cost. 25pts is almost 28% of the price of a squigbuggy. If you could have given this to the entire squadron than yeah absolutely. But on a single model? Meh. Average Dmg increase against T4 Infantry, assuming 18' range. 2D6 shots = 7, BS4+ = 3.5 hits 1D6 shots = 3.5 shots = 1.16 hits, 4.66 hits = 3.1 wounds W/nitro squigs its 4.66 hits and 3.88 wounds. So you are paying 25pts to increase average dmg per turn by 0.78, not exactly worth it. On a squadron of 3 it would have been 2.34 and worth it at 25pts, but on a single model? I'll pass.
Red Rolla: 20pts - Hard pass. On a bonebreaker your Deffrolla goes from D6 extra attacks on the charge to D3+3. D6 averages 3.5 extra attacks, D3+3 averages 5. So again, 20pts to gain 1.5 attacks HARD HARD HARD pass, especially on a unit that is already heavily over priced.
Shokka Hull: 15/30pts - Not terrible, a bit pricey but not terrible. Put this on a vehicle, get it into CC and when someone attacks it they suffer D3 Mortal wounds on a 4+. Also, its EVERY time its selected as a target by a unit. So if 4 units swing at your vehicle they each roll a D6 and on a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortals. Very gimmicky and going to be hard to really make use of it given how bad our good CC vehicles have become but it would be funny if nothing else
Souped Up Speshul: 10pts - Changes the shots on the Mek Speshul from 14/10 to 16/12....So its just an extra 2 shots So 10pts nets you an average of 0.66 more hits a turn. ....Do you guys see why I think GW are incompetent when it comes to writing ork rules? Unless you had 10pts left over and have literally nothing else you could possibly want to spend it on...why would you ever take this?
Squig-Hide Tyres: 15pts - Good! Vehicles only, excludes flyers and walkers. Add 1 to move and 2 to advance. So why do I think this is good? Put it on a Killrig, it now averages 13 movement and 5.5 advance for 18.5 distance leaving you with a 6-7' charge turn 1 during a WAAAAGH! There are a bunch of other things you can do with it, but speed is good, I wish it was cheaper but meh.
Stompamatic Pistons: 15-30pts - not sure honestly. At 15pts for a Dread its pretty expensive to get +3 movement and +1 advance, especially since I don't see dreads being on the table turn 1. Plus making them Movement 9, even with the best advance roll you are still 8+ to charge turn 1 against the enemy, and its only on 1 model as we mentioned. On the Mork/gork/stompa its 30pts, That gives them Movement 11 and Movement 13, Add in the average advance movement to 4.5 and the Nautz are still 8.5 away or an 8' charge at best, the Stompa I think it would be worth it, That makes it 17.5 movement and gives him 6' charge turn 1 which would be DEVASTATING. Granted its a all or nothing thing, because if you don't get into CC turn 1 you are likely losing the game
BONUS! Mek Kustom Jobz.
I'm going to be using these on the premise that they only apply to mekz and Spannas even though in GW's hamfisted ways they forgot to mention it, I'm just assuming its RAI.
Bionik Oiler: 10pts - Dumb, useless and No. an oiler is 5pts, this lets you use it twice for 10pts, so you are paying 15pts to get the benefit of 10pts of oiler.
Enhanced Runt Sucker: 15pts - Also Dumb. Take the massively over priced SAG, now pay an extra 15pts to change it from D6 to 2D3. Hard pass.
Extra-Kustom Weapon: 10pts - It just add 1 extra shot for Kustom Weapons, assuming its for a single model since it says "Model equipped" that means you are paying 10pts for 1 extra shot at either 4+ or 5+ on a kustom weapon. To my knowledge no mek has more than 1 of these guns attached so you are paying for the entire cost of another Kustom Mega weapon to gain 1 extra shot from the one you already have. If you could put this on a Dread it would make sense, as it currently stands...No.
Smoky Gubbinz: 1ppm - Assuming a max unit you are paying 15pts to give that unit Light cover if it doesn't move. The only units that can do this are burna's and Lootas. Burna's will be in a vehicle and Lootas will be as well or they will already be in cover. So this makes no sense and is kind of pointless.
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
Overall I am not impressed with these. Most could be good if they weren't so heavily over priced, some are just hot garbage and others just make you ask WTF was GW thinking?
Agree on basically everything, beside the Rukkatrukka upgrade, because it allows you to become a threat to everything. Even picking up the last wounds on a tank is golden, when we can finally shoot out of LOS.
Is it just me or this is the worst 9th codex so far? I am doing an excel on the changes from 8th and it feels like for every step forward we took one backward and one sideways, meanwhile everybody went 2 step forward.
If they were pistol 2 or 3 this might have been a funny and not completely useless composition. GW seems to be afraid of obscene numbers when they design their weapon profile with some good reason, but since orks are BS 5+, they actually need double the shot of any BS 3+ army to break even in firepower. Designing ork shooting weapon profile is really going against most people's instinct.
Da Booma: 15pts - Convert a KillKannon into Da Booma. Goes from Range 24' D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg to Range 36' 2D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg.
This is crap. The KillKannon hasn't been useful since they removed Pie plates because Ork blast weapons DO NOT work like Space Marine and Imperial Guard blast weapons and GW has literally never figured this out..possibly because they have zero understanding of how the Ork army works. D6 shots for orkz works out to 1.16ish hits a turn. So the Kill Kannon averages 1 wound vs T4 a turn. Against T5+ its even lower (0.77) So you are thinking "Ok it sucks, so upgrading it makes it better right!" no. 2D6 shots averages 7 shots a turn which works out to 2.33 hits a turn. Its twice as good, the added range is nice but look at the cost. The KillKannon is 10pts, the upgrade which doubles its shot output and adds 12' range is 15pts. So you are paying 25pts for a weapon system that will literally hit 2.33 times a turn. For comparison, a regular Battlecannon on a Leman russ standing still gets 2D6 shots and averages 3.5 hits a turn. I can already here people saying "But Semper, what if I put it on the Gunwagon and use its periscope to make it functionally BS4+!" Cool. Now its 3.5 hits a turn for the low low price of 190pts. You are now paying as much as a IG player pays for a Leman russ tank with a battlecannon and 3x Heavy Bolters.
Fortress on Wheels: 20pts - I mean...go for it if you really want, Wagonz this edition are in a bad place regardless, but giving it a 5+ invuln wouldn't be bad. Sadly the price is too high, especially for the Trukkz, you are increasing the cost of the trukk by about 30% just to give it a 5++. I could see that it would have been useful on a bonebreaker, if the BB wasn't already heavily over priced at 175pts.
Gyroscopic Whirlygig: 10pts - Ignore Mortal wounds on a Shokkjump Dragsta from its Shokk Tunnel ability. Might be useful if you are using it for scoring points and harassing the enemies backfield, but honestly...its 10pts to ignore a 50% chance at an average of 2mortals.
More Dakka: 15/30pts - This is good...sadly its over priced. Every time you shoot roll a D6, on a 4+ it gains +1 shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 it gains +2 shots. The only unit I can think of that would really benefit from this is the Dakkajet and it means you have a 33% chance to add 6 shots (2 hits), a 16.6% chance of gaining 12 shots (4 hits) and a 50% chance of doing nothing. If this was just a flat 15pt upgrade and your weapons gained 1 attack each it would have been good, the uncertainty of the upgrade means that its going to be swingy as hell and will either lend you a critical additional 2 hits or be a complete waste of 15pts on a Dakkajet. Keep in mind, our fliers are not what most would consider durable
Nitro Squigs: 25pts - This is good, but I still think its over priced. on the Squigbuggy, your squig launchas gain +1 to wound. So against ANYTHING in the game you are going to be wounding on at least 4s, against T4 and below its 2s. only problem like I said, is the points cost. 25pts is almost 28% of the price of a squigbuggy. If you could have given this to the entire squadron than yeah absolutely. But on a single model? Meh. Average Dmg increase against T4 Infantry, assuming 18' range. 2D6 shots = 7, BS4+ = 3.5 hits 1D6 shots = 3.5 shots = 1.16 hits, 4.66 hits = 3.1 wounds W/nitro squigs its 4.66 hits and 3.88 wounds. So you are paying 25pts to increase average dmg per turn by 0.78, not exactly worth it. On a squadron of 3 it would have been 2.34 and worth it at 25pts, but on a single model? I'll pass.
Red Rolla: 20pts - Hard pass. On a bonebreaker your Deffrolla goes from D6 extra attacks on the charge to D3+3. D6 averages 3.5 extra attacks, D3+3 averages 5. So again, 20pts to gain 1.5 attacks HARD HARD HARD pass, especially on a unit that is already heavily over priced.
Shokka Hull: 15/30pts - Not terrible, a bit pricey but not terrible. Put this on a vehicle, get it into CC and when someone attacks it they suffer D3 Mortal wounds on a 4+. Also, its EVERY time its selected as a target by a unit. So if 4 units swing at your vehicle they each roll a D6 and on a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortals. Very gimmicky and going to be hard to really make use of it given how bad our good CC vehicles have become but it would be funny if nothing else
Souped Up Speshul: 10pts - Changes the shots on the Mek Speshul from 14/10 to 16/12....So its just an extra 2 shots So 10pts nets you an average of 0.66 more hits a turn. ....Do you guys see why I think GW are incompetent when it comes to writing ork rules? Unless you had 10pts left over and have literally nothing else you could possibly want to spend it on...why would you ever take this?
Squig-Hide Tyres: 15pts - Good! Vehicles only, excludes flyers and walkers. Add 1 to move and 2 to advance. So why do I think this is good? Put it on a Killrig, it now averages 13 movement and 5.5 advance for 18.5 distance leaving you with a 6-7' charge turn 1 during a WAAAAGH! There are a bunch of other things you can do with it, but speed is good, I wish it was cheaper but meh.
Stompamatic Pistons: 15-30pts - not sure honestly. At 15pts for a Dread its pretty expensive to get +3 movement and +1 advance, especially since I don't see dreads being on the table turn 1. Plus making them Movement 9, even with the best advance roll you are still 8+ to charge turn 1 against the enemy, and its only on 1 model as we mentioned. On the Mork/gork/stompa its 30pts, That gives them Movement 11 and Movement 13, Add in the average advance movement to 4.5 and the Nautz are still 8.5 away or an 8' charge at best, the Stompa I think it would be worth it, That makes it 17.5 movement and gives him 6' charge turn 1 which would be DEVASTATING. Granted its a all or nothing thing, because if you don't get into CC turn 1 you are likely losing the game
BONUS! Mek Kustom Jobz.
I'm going to be using these on the premise that they only apply to mekz and Spannas even though in GW's hamfisted ways they forgot to mention it, I'm just assuming its RAI.
Bionik Oiler: 10pts - Dumb, useless and No. an oiler is 5pts, this lets you use it twice for 10pts, so you are paying 15pts to get the benefit of 10pts of oiler.
Enhanced Runt Sucker: 15pts - Also Dumb. Take the massively over priced SAG, now pay an extra 15pts to change it from D6 to 2D3. Hard pass.
Extra-Kustom Weapon: 10pts - It just add 1 extra shot for Kustom Weapons, assuming its for a single model since it says "Model equipped" that means you are paying 10pts for 1 extra shot at either 4+ or 5+ on a kustom weapon. To my knowledge no mek has more than 1 of these guns attached so you are paying for the entire cost of another Kustom Mega weapon to gain 1 extra shot from the one you already have. If you could put this on a Dread it would make sense, as it currently stands...No.
Smoky Gubbinz: 1ppm - Assuming a max unit you are paying 15pts to give that unit Light cover if it doesn't move. The only units that can do this are burna's and Lootas. Burna's will be in a vehicle and Lootas will be as well or they will already be in cover. So this makes no sense and is kind of pointless.
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
Overall I am not impressed with these. Most could be good if they weren't so heavily over priced, some are just hot garbage and others just make you ask WTF was GW thinking?
Agree on basically everything, beside the Rukkatrukka upgrade, because it allows you to become a threat to everything. Even picking up the last wounds on a tank is golden, when we can finally shoot out of LOS.
Is it just me or this is the worst 9th codex so far? I am doing an excel on the changes from 8th and it feels like for every step forward we took one backward and one sideways, meanwhile everybody went 2 step forward.
Worst codex as in most mistakes, odd restrictions, and of course no orky flavor yea…
But competitive nope… necrons are pretty blah even w a
Massive model release.
gungo wrote: Mozgrod is our strongest HQ however his opportunity cost is you need to take snakebites and thier kultur is limited.
However the beastboss on squigasaur is really close to mozgrod and is much easier to customize especially w the crazy combo of killchoppa/BBK.
Ghaz isn’t bad… he’s just over costed slightly…. Our new codex strength is a bunch of high toughness point efficient models that are annoying to kill that make str 6/7 weapons and atks not have ideal targets to hit.. so sure go for ghaz with his 2+, 4++, 6+++, toughness 7 and 4 max wounds a turn and ignore those killrigs or beastboss on squig or warboss on bike, and 5+ buggies and toughness 6 squigriders… they all pretty much need the same types of weapons put into them.
except to get the 6+++ you need Makari, and its not Max 4 wounds per turn, its max 4 wounds per phase, which is how I was able to 1 turn him so often. And the thing is, that 4 wounds per phase means he isn't a distraction carnifex. You hit him with a few Cognis lascannons and than ignore him the rest of the phase. Hits on 3s, wounds on 3s and you need 2 to go through to his 4++ to max out his dmg for the shooting phase. So to max dmg against him you need 4.5 Cognis Lascannon shots...not exactly hard to max out in a single turn for Mech players.
I do 100% agree with you though that the Beastboss on squigosaurs are going to be our go to guys for warbosses. They easily out class regular warbosses and even MA Warbosses. And with their customization options teamed with their 10' movement, they at least have a chance of getting a turn 1 charge off.
Da Booma: 15pts - Convert a KillKannon into Da Booma. Goes from Range 24' D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg to Range 36' 2D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg.
This is crap. The KillKannon hasn't been useful since they removed Pie plates because Ork blast weapons DO NOT work like Space Marine and Imperial Guard blast weapons and GW has literally never figured this out..possibly because they have zero understanding of how the Ork army works. D6 shots for orkz works out to 1.16ish hits a turn. So the Kill Kannon averages 1 wound vs T4 a turn. Against T5+ its even lower (0.77) So you are thinking "Ok it sucks, so upgrading it makes it better right!" no. 2D6 shots averages 7 shots a turn which works out to 2.33 hits a turn. Its twice as good, the added range is nice but look at the cost. The KillKannon is 10pts, the upgrade which doubles its shot output and adds 12' range is 15pts. So you are paying 25pts for a weapon system that will literally hit 2.33 times a turn. For comparison, a regular Battlecannon on a Leman russ standing still gets 2D6 shots and averages 3.5 hits a turn. I can already here people saying "But Semper, what if I put it on the Gunwagon and use its periscope to make it functionally BS4+!" Cool. Now its 3.5 hits a turn for the low low price of 190pts. You are now paying as much as a IG player pays for a Leman russ tank with a battlecannon and 3x Heavy Bolters.
Fortress on Wheels: 20pts - I mean...go for it if you really want, Wagonz this edition are in a bad place regardless, but giving it a 5+ invuln wouldn't be bad. Sadly the price is too high, especially for the Trukkz, you are increasing the cost of the trukk by about 30% just to give it a 5++. I could see that it would have been useful on a bonebreaker, if the BB wasn't already heavily over priced at 175pts.
Gyroscopic Whirlygig: 10pts - Ignore Mortal wounds on a Shokkjump Dragsta from its Shokk Tunnel ability. Might be useful if you are using it for scoring points and harassing the enemies backfield, but honestly...its 10pts to ignore a 50% chance at an average of 2mortals.
More Dakka: 15/30pts - This is good...sadly its over priced. Every time you shoot roll a D6, on a 4+ it gains +1 shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 it gains +2 shots. The only unit I can think of that would really benefit from this is the Dakkajet and it means you have a 33% chance to add 6 shots (2 hits), a 16.6% chance of gaining 12 shots (4 hits) and a 50% chance of doing nothing. If this was just a flat 15pt upgrade and your weapons gained 1 attack each it would have been good, the uncertainty of the upgrade means that its going to be swingy as hell and will either lend you a critical additional 2 hits or be a complete waste of 15pts on a Dakkajet. Keep in mind, our fliers are not what most would consider durable
Nitro Squigs: 25pts - This is good, but I still think its over priced. on the Squigbuggy, your squig launchas gain +1 to wound. So against ANYTHING in the game you are going to be wounding on at least 4s, against T4 and below its 2s. only problem like I said, is the points cost. 25pts is almost 28% of the price of a squigbuggy. If you could have given this to the entire squadron than yeah absolutely. But on a single model? Meh. Average Dmg increase against T4 Infantry, assuming 18' range. 2D6 shots = 7, BS4+ = 3.5 hits 1D6 shots = 3.5 shots = 1.16 hits, 4.66 hits = 3.1 wounds W/nitro squigs its 4.66 hits and 3.88 wounds. So you are paying 25pts to increase average dmg per turn by 0.78, not exactly worth it. On a squadron of 3 it would have been 2.34 and worth it at 25pts, but on a single model? I'll pass.
Red Rolla: 20pts - Hard pass. On a bonebreaker your Deffrolla goes from D6 extra attacks on the charge to D3+3. D6 averages 3.5 extra attacks, D3+3 averages 5. So again, 20pts to gain 1.5 attacks HARD HARD HARD pass, especially on a unit that is already heavily over priced.
Shokka Hull: 15/30pts - Not terrible, a bit pricey but not terrible. Put this on a vehicle, get it into CC and when someone attacks it they suffer D3 Mortal wounds on a 4+. Also, its EVERY time its selected as a target by a unit. So if 4 units swing at your vehicle they each roll a D6 and on a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortals. Very gimmicky and going to be hard to really make use of it given how bad our good CC vehicles have become but it would be funny if nothing else
Souped Up Speshul: 10pts - Changes the shots on the Mek Speshul from 14/10 to 16/12....So its just an extra 2 shots So 10pts nets you an average of 0.66 more hits a turn. ....Do you guys see why I think GW are incompetent when it comes to writing ork rules? Unless you had 10pts left over and have literally nothing else you could possibly want to spend it on...why would you ever take this?
Squig-Hide Tyres: 15pts - Good! Vehicles only, excludes flyers and walkers. Add 1 to move and 2 to advance. So why do I think this is good? Put it on a Killrig, it now averages 13 movement and 5.5 advance for 18.5 distance leaving you with a 6-7' charge turn 1 during a WAAAAGH! There are a bunch of other things you can do with it, but speed is good, I wish it was cheaper but meh.
Stompamatic Pistons: 15-30pts - not sure honestly. At 15pts for a Dread its pretty expensive to get +3 movement and +1 advance, especially since I don't see dreads being on the table turn 1. Plus making them Movement 9, even with the best advance roll you are still 8+ to charge turn 1 against the enemy, and its only on 1 model as we mentioned. On the Mork/gork/stompa its 30pts, That gives them Movement 11 and Movement 13, Add in the average advance movement to 4.5 and the Nautz are still 8.5 away or an 8' charge at best, the Stompa I think it would be worth it, That makes it 17.5 movement and gives him 6' charge turn 1 which would be DEVASTATING. Granted its a all or nothing thing, because if you don't get into CC turn 1 you are likely losing the game
BONUS! Mek Kustom Jobz.
I'm going to be using these on the premise that they only apply to mekz and Spannas even though in GW's hamfisted ways they forgot to mention it, I'm just assuming its RAI.
Bionik Oiler: 10pts - Dumb, useless and No. an oiler is 5pts, this lets you use it twice for 10pts, so you are paying 15pts to get the benefit of 10pts of oiler.
Enhanced Runt Sucker: 15pts - Also Dumb. Take the massively over priced SAG, now pay an extra 15pts to change it from D6 to 2D3. Hard pass.
Extra-Kustom Weapon: 10pts - It just add 1 extra shot for Kustom Weapons, assuming its for a single model since it says "Model equipped" that means you are paying 10pts for 1 extra shot at either 4+ or 5+ on a kustom weapon. To my knowledge no mek has more than 1 of these guns attached so you are paying for the entire cost of another Kustom Mega weapon to gain 1 extra shot from the one you already have. If you could put this on a Dread it would make sense, as it currently stands...No.
Smoky Gubbinz: 1ppm - Assuming a max unit you are paying 15pts to give that unit Light cover if it doesn't move. The only units that can do this are burna's and Lootas. Burna's will be in a vehicle and Lootas will be as well or they will already be in cover. So this makes no sense and is kind of pointless.
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
Overall I am not impressed with these. Most could be good if they weren't so heavily over priced, some are just hot garbage and others just make you ask WTF was GW thinking?
Agree on basically everything, beside the Rukkatrukka upgrade, because it allows you to become a threat to everything. Even picking up the last wounds on a tank is golden, when we can finally shoot out of LOS.
Is it just me or this is the worst 9th codex so far? I am doing an excel on the changes from 8th and it feels like for every step forward we took one backward and one sideways, meanwhile everybody went 2 step forward.
Yep, between us and Necrons as Gungo mentioned, its a close call. I think our saving grace is going to be the wombo-combos we can pull off that nobody is able to plan/expect in a competitive setting. For instance, dropping 3 Big Ead bunka's on your opponent from telleporta strike is going to be FETHING HILARIOUS, and even more so when its filled with tankbustas and Flashgitz
Personally I think we're top tier now
Tests in our competitive group have shown that buggies and killrigs(proxies ATM) are amazing. Also, you might need 20-60 grots depending on how many you can fit in and how large your games are. If you go 2k, I'd probably take at least 30 if you go competitive. We've become quite vulnerable to getting tarpitted 1st turn.
A couple shild captains fly close and suddenly you've lost 1/3 of your firepower.
The sad part is that we have to ditch all boyz. And no more mek gunz spam though, a couple solo are still ok.
gungo wrote: Mozgrod is our strongest HQ however his opportunity cost is you need to take snakebites and thier kultur is limited.
However the beastboss on squigasaur is really close to mozgrod and is much easier to customize especially w the crazy combo of killchoppa/BBK.
Ghaz isn’t bad… he’s just over costed slightly…. Our new codex strength is a bunch of high toughness point efficient models that are annoying to kill that make str 6/7 weapons and atks not have ideal targets to hit.. so sure go for ghaz with his 2+, 4++, 6+++, toughness 7 and 4 max wounds a turn and ignore those killrigs or beastboss on squig or warboss on bike, and 5+ buggies and toughness 6 squigriders… they all pretty much need the same types of weapons put into them.
except to get the 6+++ you need Makari, and its not Max 4 wounds per turn, its max 4 wounds per phase, which is how I was able to 1 turn him so often. And the thing is, that 4 wounds per phase means he isn't a distraction carnifex. You hit him with a few Cognis lascannons and than ignore him the rest of the phase. Hits on 3s, wounds on 3s and you need 2 to go through to his 4++ to max out his dmg for the shooting phase. So to max dmg against him you need 4.5 Cognis Lascannon shots...not exactly hard to max out in a single turn for Mech players.
I do 100% agree with you though that the Beastboss on squigosaurs are going to be our go to guys for warbosses. They easily out class regular warbosses and even MA Warbosses. And with their customization options teamed with their 10' movement, they at least have a chance of getting a turn 1 charge off.
Makari is amazing… first off I have a hard time finding a second HQ to fill out my battalion.
Secondly besides the gamey grot shield character shenanigans, he is the ONLY source of fnp for ghaz, killrigs, vehicles, cavalry (beyond painboss), Gretchin and pretty much any Goff unit…. Add in the ld boost to gakky Gretchin morale and his 7in movement when he’s with ghaz and he’s a steal… I placed him in my Goff battalion to eat up the second HQ slot I needed to fill.
Regardless ghaz is there to eat up those anti vehicle shots that you be putting into my killrigs, beastboss on squig, warboss on bike, buggies and squig riders… so sure shoot 5-6 cog is lasers into ghaz and if you roll well your shots are wasted and if you roll poorly you need to shoot him with more…u still need to do 4 more damage in the movement phase and 4 more damage in the assault phase to kill him in 1 turn. It’s not Impossible but it takes a lot of focused firepower to do it. That’s not being put into bigger threats… and if you don’t engage him fully he’s going to last at least 3+ turns anyway.
Makari is amazing… first off I have a hard time finding a second HQ to fill out my battalion. Secondly besides the gamey grot shield character shenanigans, he is the ONLY source of fnp for ghaz, killrigs, vehicles, cavalry (beyond painboss), Gretchin and pretty much any Goff unit…. Add in the ld boost to gakky Gretchin morale and his 7in movement when he’s with ghaz and he’s a steal… I placed him in my Goff battalion to eat up the second HQ slot I needed to fill. Regardless ghaz is there to eat up those anti vehicle shots that you be putting into my killrigs, beastboss on squig, warboss on bike, buggies and squig riders…
I'd rather take A Warboss on T-rex than Ghaz and Makari, and for the price point I can take 2 and have points left over. And Makari's aura is capable of targetting everything like you said, but its a 3' bubble around him. And on top of that its a 6+ FNP. Honestly, for 355pts I would take the 2 aforementioned T-rex bosses and save the 65pts for something more meaningful than a 6+ FNP.
As far as a 2nd HQ for the slot, I feel your pain, none of our choices are worth much. Best I can think of is a Mega Mek with Tellyporta blasta.
Da Booma: 15pts - Convert a KillKannon into Da Booma. Goes from Range 24' D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg to Range 36' 2D6 shots S8 AP-2 2dmg.
This is crap. The KillKannon hasn't been useful since they removed Pie plates because Ork blast weapons DO NOT work like Space Marine and Imperial Guard blast weapons and GW has literally never figured this out..possibly because they have zero understanding of how the Ork army works. D6 shots for orkz works out to 1.16ish hits a turn. So the Kill Kannon averages 1 wound vs T4 a turn. Against T5+ its even lower (0.77) So you are thinking "Ok it sucks, so upgrading it makes it better right!" no. 2D6 shots averages 7 shots a turn which works out to 2.33 hits a turn. Its twice as good, the added range is nice but look at the cost. The KillKannon is 10pts, the upgrade which doubles its shot output and adds 12' range is 15pts. So you are paying 25pts for a weapon system that will literally hit 2.33 times a turn. For comparison, a regular Battlecannon on a Leman russ standing still gets 2D6 shots and averages 3.5 hits a turn. I can already here people saying "But Semper, what if I put it on the Gunwagon and use its periscope to make it functionally BS4+!" Cool. Now its 3.5 hits a turn for the low low price of 190pts. You are now paying as much as a IG player pays for a Leman russ tank with a battlecannon and 3x Heavy Bolters.
Fortress on Wheels: 20pts - I mean...go for it if you really want, Wagonz this edition are in a bad place regardless, but giving it a 5+ invuln wouldn't be bad. Sadly the price is too high, especially for the Trukkz, you are increasing the cost of the trukk by about 30% just to give it a 5++. I could see that it would have been useful on a bonebreaker, if the BB wasn't already heavily over priced at 175pts.
Gyroscopic Whirlygig: 10pts - Ignore Mortal wounds on a Shokkjump Dragsta from its Shokk Tunnel ability. Might be useful if you are using it for scoring points and harassing the enemies backfield, but honestly...its 10pts to ignore a 50% chance at an average of 2mortals.
More Dakka: 15/30pts - This is good...sadly its over priced. Every time you shoot roll a D6, on a 4+ it gains +1 shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 it gains +2 shots. The only unit I can think of that would really benefit from this is the Dakkajet and it means you have a 33% chance to add 6 shots (2 hits), a 16.6% chance of gaining 12 shots (4 hits) and a 50% chance of doing nothing. If this was just a flat 15pt upgrade and your weapons gained 1 attack each it would have been good, the uncertainty of the upgrade means that its going to be swingy as hell and will either lend you a critical additional 2 hits or be a complete waste of 15pts on a Dakkajet. Keep in mind, our fliers are not what most would consider durable
Nitro Squigs: 25pts - This is good, but I still think its over priced. on the Squigbuggy, your squig launchas gain +1 to wound. So against ANYTHING in the game you are going to be wounding on at least 4s, against T4 and below its 2s. only problem like I said, is the points cost. 25pts is almost 28% of the price of a squigbuggy. If you could have given this to the entire squadron than yeah absolutely. But on a single model? Meh. Average Dmg increase against T4 Infantry, assuming 18' range. 2D6 shots = 7, BS4+ = 3.5 hits 1D6 shots = 3.5 shots = 1.16 hits, 4.66 hits = 3.1 wounds W/nitro squigs its 4.66 hits and 3.88 wounds. So you are paying 25pts to increase average dmg per turn by 0.78, not exactly worth it. On a squadron of 3 it would have been 2.34 and worth it at 25pts, but on a single model? I'll pass.
Red Rolla: 20pts - Hard pass. On a bonebreaker your Deffrolla goes from D6 extra attacks on the charge to D3+3. D6 averages 3.5 extra attacks, D3+3 averages 5. So again, 20pts to gain 1.5 attacks HARD HARD HARD pass, especially on a unit that is already heavily over priced.
Shokka Hull: 15/30pts - Not terrible, a bit pricey but not terrible. Put this on a vehicle, get it into CC and when someone attacks it they suffer D3 Mortal wounds on a 4+. Also, its EVERY time its selected as a target by a unit. So if 4 units swing at your vehicle they each roll a D6 and on a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortals. Very gimmicky and going to be hard to really make use of it given how bad our good CC vehicles have become but it would be funny if nothing else
Souped Up Speshul: 10pts - Changes the shots on the Mek Speshul from 14/10 to 16/12....So its just an extra 2 shots So 10pts nets you an average of 0.66 more hits a turn. ....Do you guys see why I think GW are incompetent when it comes to writing ork rules? Unless you had 10pts left over and have literally nothing else you could possibly want to spend it on...why would you ever take this?
Squig-Hide Tyres: 15pts - Good! Vehicles only, excludes flyers and walkers. Add 1 to move and 2 to advance. So why do I think this is good? Put it on a Killrig, it now averages 13 movement and 5.5 advance for 18.5 distance leaving you with a 6-7' charge turn 1 during a WAAAAGH! There are a bunch of other things you can do with it, but speed is good, I wish it was cheaper but meh.
Stompamatic Pistons: 15-30pts - not sure honestly. At 15pts for a Dread its pretty expensive to get +3 movement and +1 advance, especially since I don't see dreads being on the table turn 1. Plus making them Movement 9, even with the best advance roll you are still 8+ to charge turn 1 against the enemy, and its only on 1 model as we mentioned. On the Mork/gork/stompa its 30pts, That gives them Movement 11 and Movement 13, Add in the average advance movement to 4.5 and the Nautz are still 8.5 away or an 8' charge at best, the Stompa I think it would be worth it, That makes it 17.5 movement and gives him 6' charge turn 1 which would be DEVASTATING. Granted its a all or nothing thing, because if you don't get into CC turn 1 you are likely losing the game
BONUS! Mek Kustom Jobz.
I'm going to be using these on the premise that they only apply to mekz and Spannas even though in GW's hamfisted ways they forgot to mention it, I'm just assuming its RAI.
Bionik Oiler: 10pts - Dumb, useless and No. an oiler is 5pts, this lets you use it twice for 10pts, so you are paying 15pts to get the benefit of 10pts of oiler.
Enhanced Runt Sucker: 15pts - Also Dumb. Take the massively over priced SAG, now pay an extra 15pts to change it from D6 to 2D3. Hard pass.
Extra-Kustom Weapon: 10pts - It just add 1 extra shot for Kustom Weapons, assuming its for a single model since it says "Model equipped" that means you are paying 10pts for 1 extra shot at either 4+ or 5+ on a kustom weapon. To my knowledge no mek has more than 1 of these guns attached so you are paying for the entire cost of another Kustom Mega weapon to gain 1 extra shot from the one you already have. If you could put this on a Dread it would make sense, as it currently stands...No.
Smoky Gubbinz: 1ppm - Assuming a max unit you are paying 15pts to give that unit Light cover if it doesn't move. The only units that can do this are burna's and Lootas. Burna's will be in a vehicle and Lootas will be as well or they will already be in cover. So this makes no sense and is kind of pointless.
Zzapkrumpaz: 2ppm - Same unit restriction as smoky gubbinz. Gives the unit Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. So max unit of 15, during a WAAAGH you get 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds 2.5 of them become mortals. Not great, especially for 30pts. And honestly, if you tell your opponent your burna's are riding around in an over priced trukk and each one is 2ppm more expensive, hes going to pop them first and congrats you just lost 265pts
Overall I am not impressed with these. Most could be good if they weren't so heavily over priced, some are just hot garbage and others just make you ask WTF was GW thinking?
Agree on basically everything, beside the Rukkatrukka upgrade, because it allows you to become a threat to everything. Even picking up the last wounds on a tank is golden, when we can finally shoot out of LOS.
Is it just me or this is the worst 9th codex so far? I am doing an excel on the changes from 8th and it feels like for every step forward we took one backward and one sideways, meanwhile everybody went 2 step forward.
Worst codex as in most mistakes, odd restrictions, and of course no orky flavor yea…
But competitive nope… necrons are pretty blah even w a
Massive model release.
Yep - I think the people complaining are the people not yet realizing how an army is measured in terms of competitive play. Some units like lootas, gunwagons, foot warbosses, kff meks etc may be uncompetitive, but 'how competitive is X faction' is always judged based on the very best stuff in the 'dex, and our best is pretty spicy. Kommandos, Koptas, squigosaur boss, maybe kill rigs tho im not yet convinced tbh, trukk boyz, pyro burnas, stormboyz...we got some extremely solid units.
I’d take 2 warbosses as well but you can’t unless you want to waste 3cp and buy another troop tax unit.
Makari is 55pts not 65pts and 3in within is more then enough to cover mutiple high value units and it doesn’t take much to make back his cost.
Look I’m not saying ghaz is amazing but he is a strong character with almost zero opportunity costs and while I don’t expect him to be in most tournament lists I think he is decent in the right lists and may even make some surprise rankings in certain lists.
So is the warboss on warbike still using the old speedwaaaaugh rule? Im assuming he'll get updated to the new one but for now he still shows as using the old 6" advance and charge bubble. Im planning on running him in a bloodaxe list running kommandos with snikrot backed up by bikers, dakkajet, buggies, etc.
Not sure its going to be a super amazing list, but feels very Blood Axe and should be a fun way to blitz the opponent.
FW stuff is always in a state of flux on the initial codex release. More than likely since GW seems to be ignoring anything ork codex related (even not putting it in the app) until the proper release i wouldnt mess with FWatm, nobody can say how they will be treated and probably wont get updated for awhile
Bikerboss also has both boss keywords, which technically makes him cause both waaagh!'s - guarantee he loses warboss and they faq the limiting rule to say speedboss instead of wartrike
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
You need to reread that strat again. Its Beastsnagga Infantry, Cavalry AND Monster, not just Monster.
Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.
Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.
I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
You need to reread that strat again. Its Beastsnagga Infantry, Cavalry AND Monster, not just Monster.
Um yes it’s “beastsnagga Infantry”, “beastsnagga cavalry” and “beastsnagga monster” units….
There is no “beastsnagga monster” units in our codex…
There is a squig “monster” unit in the fw compendium that has yet to be FAQ’d.
I didn’t mean it’s ONLY “monsters” I meant it works on “beastsnagga monsters” that are not a codex unit.
But I could have worded it better.
You need to reread that strat again. Its Beastsnagga Infantry, Cavalry AND Monster, not just Monster.
I think he means Beastsnagga*(infantry + cavalry + monster) instead of (Beastsnagga*infantry) + cavalry + monster
using math terms cause language is confusing like that sometimes especially if its not your main language.
Anyway, if beastsnagga applies to each of infantry, cavalry and monster, it implies a beastsnagga monster. What I dont understand is that a monster in a beastsnagga detachment is technically a beastsnagga monster right?
raise banners ?
This should be added to the list of bugs
. And I like the fact that Smasha gunz aren't the only one worth a damn, but going from being able to field 10 with relatively ease to having to take 3 slots for Heavy support just to field 3 of them is a massive nerf to our ranged firepower.
