gungo wrote:
I’d take 2 warbosses as well but you can’t unless you want to waste 3cp and buy another troop tax unit.
Makari is 55pts not 65pts and 3in within is more then enough to cover mutiple high value units and it doesn’t take much to make back his cost.
Look I’m not saying ghaz is amazing but he is a strong character with almost zero opportunity costs and while I don’t expect him to be in most tournament lists I think he is decent in the right lists and may even make some surprise rankings in certain lists.

SemperMortis wrote:

gungo wrote:
I’d take 2 warbosses as well but you can’t unless you want to waste 3cp and buy another troop tax unit.
Makari is 55pts not 65pts and 3in within is more then enough to cover mutiple high value units and it doesn’t take much to make back his cost.
Look I’m not saying ghaz is amazing but he is a strong character with almost zero opportunity costs and while I don’t expect him to be in most tournament lists I think he is decent in the right lists and may even make some surprise rankings in certain lists.

Ghaz + Makari = 355. 2 T-rex Warbosses = 290pts. Saving of 65pts over the pair of them

Also, not sure what you mean by "Zero opportunity costs"

pepi55 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

You need to reread that strat again. Its Beastsnagga Infantry, Cavalry AND Monster, not just Monster.

I think he means Beastsnagga*(infantry + cavalry + monster) instead of (Beastsnagga*infantry) + cavalry + monster
using math terms cause language is confusing like that sometimes especially if its not your main language.

Anyway, if beastsnagga applies to each of infantry, cavalry and monster, it implies a beastsnagga monster. What I dont understand is that a monster in a beastsnagga detachment is technically a beastsnagga monster right?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So is the warboss on warbike still using the old speedwaaaaugh rule? Im assuming he'll get updated to the new one but for now he still shows as using the old 6" advance and charge bubble. Im planning on running him in a bloodaxe list running kommandos with snikrot backed up by bikers, dakkajet, buggies, etc.

Not sure its going to be a super amazing list, but feels very Blood Axe and should be a fun way to blitz the opponent.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
im 90% positive it was supposed to be one, but got changed for whatever reason and they forgot to update that strat.

like i said, this codex is riddled with "wtf?" rule writing. Whats another mistake when theres already over a dozen weird issues?

The rig is awesome as is, but its still weird that so much stuff doesnt affect it. Because its a vehicle, not a squig or monster.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
FW stuff is always in a state of flux on the initial codex release.
More than likely since GW seems to be ignoring anything ork codex related (even not putting it in the app) until the proper release i wouldnt mess with FW atm, nobody can say how they will be treated and probably wont get updated for awhile

Bikerboss also has both boss keywords, which technically makes him cause both waaagh!'s - guarantee he loses warboss and they faq the limiting rule to say speedboss instead of wartrike

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So is the warboss on warbike still using the old speedwaaaaugh rule? Im assuming he'll get updated to the new one but for now he still shows as using the old 6" advance and charge bubble. Im planning on running him in a bloodaxe list running kommandos with snikrot backed up by bikers, dakkajet, buggies, etc.

Not sure its going to be a super amazing list, but feels very Blood Axe and should be a fun way to blitz the opponent.

 Tomsug wrote:


I don' t think it' s necessary to wait for eneything significant. It was declered that FW book was designed with “new codex in mind”. It is as it is. So yes, bikerboss can declare both Waaaagh, or to be absolutely clear - one of them.

gungo wrote:

Worst codex as in most mistakes, odd restrictions, and of course no orky flavor yea…
But competitive nope… necrons are pretty blah even w a
Massive model release.

gungo wrote:
Beastsnaggas are a keyword on datasheets not a clan you add to a datasheet. There is no way to make a non-beastsnagga data sheet into a beastsnagga.

 Blackie wrote:

gungo wrote:

Worst codex as in most mistakes, odd restrictions, and of course no orky flavor yea…
But competitive nope… necrons are pretty blah even w a
Massive model release.

Lots of mistakes, for sure. But I think it is quite competitive. Some of the new stuff is mean, the fact that no one has the models yet can misguide the judgement. There are pretty solid builds available. SM don't look superior, neither do DG. And I don't think sororitas are so much better either. Drukhari probably better, can't say about Ad Mech as there's no real dedicated player here and I don't know them in detail.

pepi55 wrote:

gungo wrote:
Beastsnaggas are a keyword on datasheets not a clan you add to a datasheet. There is no way to make a non-beastsnagga data sheet into a beastsnagga.

Okay, yeah that makes sense. Then it is weird indeed that there are no Beastsnagga Monsters while being referenced. My expectation is that the strat will be FAQ'd to exclude beastsnagga monsters if anything. I doubt they will add monster to anything or release any new models after what we already had announced and somewhat released.

pepi55 wrote:
Man... I just wish we had the luxury of using whatever units and not being forced to take the select few that are now obviously strong....

afaik the admech do have the luxury of making lists with whatever units without significantly losing out on power.

pepi55 wrote:
Man... I just wish we had the luxury of using whatever units and not being forced to take the select few that are now obviously strong....

afaik the admech do have the luxury of making lists with whatever units without significantly losing out on power.

gungo wrote: I’m not feeling dread lists though.

the_scotsman wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Man... I just wish we had the luxury of using whatever units and not being forced to take the select few that are now obviously strong....

afaik the admech do have the luxury of making lists with whatever units without significantly losing out on power.

Nah - there's a lot more you have to avoid in admech than, for example, drukhari.

Robots are really bad, servitors are fairly bad, electropriests are bad, there are obvious best choices in a lot of the weapon option lists.

 Tomsug wrote:


Only aspect makes me curious is, FW book use keyword WALKER. Why? It' s not used anywhere in the new or old codex.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer that a dread waaagh style army still isn't quite viable with the current codex we got. I have a bad feeling they're going to try and make a regiment of renown in the next charadon book that basically lets us do that. I find that Deffskullz may one of the more optimal klanz for deffskullz since you can give obsec to the stormboyz/kommandos you need for secondaries/primaries.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:


Only aspect makes me curious is, FW book use keyword WALKER. Why? It' s not used anywhere in the new or old codex.

Some things are limited to exclude walkers specifically. Like Squighide Tyres.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:


Only aspect makes me curious is, FW book use keyword WALKER. Why? It' s not used anywhere in the new or old codex.

Some things are limited to exclude walkers specifically. Like Squighide Tyres.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer that a dread waaagh style army still isn't quite viable with the current codex we got. I have a bad feeling they're going to try and make a regiment of renown in the next charadon book that basically lets us do that. I find that Deffskullz may one of the more optimal klanz for deffskullz since you can give obsec to the stormboyz/kommandos you need for secondaries/primaries.

I have a sneaking suspicion that GW is going to release a lot of what is currently missing in the Codex into the charadon book for orkz in order to make us buy a new book. Christ, the SAG wasn't that great to begin with until we got the Relic one

 Vineheart01 wrote:
For the record, they also claimed the Psychic Awakening books were written with 9th in mind.
And that was proven to be a huge fething lie.

FW stating the ork rules were written with the new ork codex in mind means nothing. The only things that seem to go in line with the new dex is 1) Ramshackle everywhere, though even then a couple lack it for some reason and 2) wagons got a 3+ armor innately.
The rest is either isolated solely in FW (megawalkers, grot tanks) or is now confusing (bikernobz are identical to warbikers in T/W, bikerboss has both boss keywords, bigshoota pricing, etc)

GW rules teams clearly dont talk to each other, and even the ork codex itself shows that if multiple people are working on it they dont even talk among themselves.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer that a dread waaagh style army still isn't quite viable with the current codex we got. I have a bad feeling they're going to try and make a regiment of renown in the next charadon book that basically lets us do that. I find that Deffskullz may one of the more optimal klanz for deffskullz since you can give obsec to the stormboyz/kommandos you need for secondaries/primaries.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

pepi55 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer that a dread waaagh style army still isn't quite viable with the current codex we got. I have a bad feeling they're going to try and make a regiment of renown in the next charadon book that basically lets us do that. I find that Deffskullz may one of the more optimal klanz for deffskullz since you can give obsec to the stormboyz/kommandos you need for secondaries/primaries.

Spoiler:

+++ 1000 - Dreadwaaagh! (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [58 PL, 1CP, 1,000pts] +++

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks 2021) [28 PL, 3CP, 470pts] ++
Rules: Ork Detachment Abilities, Waaagh!

+ Configuration [3CP] +

Battle Size [3CP]: 1. Combat Patrol (0-50 Total PL / 0-500 Points) [3CP]
. Categories: Configuration

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz
. Categories: Configuration
. Abilities: Evil Sunz
Profiles:
. Evil Sunz: Description:- Add 1" to the Move characteristic of models with this kultur. If that model is a SPEED FREEKS model, add 2" instead.
- Add 1 to Advance rolls made for units with this kultur
- Models with this kultur do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn in which their unit Advanced.

Detachment Command Cost
. Categories: Configuration

+ HQ [5 PL, 105pts] +

Warboss [5 PL, 105pts]: Attack Squig [5pts], Fasta Than Yooz, Kombi-skorcha, Power Klaw [10pts], Rezmekka's Redder Paint, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories: Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Evil Sunz
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!
. Abilities: Dead Tough, Fasta Than Yooz, Kombi-skorcha, Rezmekka's Redder Paint, Warboss (Aura), Unit: Warboss, Weapon: Attack Squig, Power Klaw, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Fasta Than Yooz: Description:In your Command phase, select on friendly EVIL SUNZ CORE unit within 6" of this model. That unit is eligible to declare a charge with even if they Advanced or Fell Back this turn.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Rezmekka's Redder Paint: Description:- Add 2" to the bearer's Move characteristic.
- At the start of the Fight phase, if this WARLORD is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, those units cannot be selected to fight until all eligible units from your army have done so.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Attack Squig: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:4|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time a model with an attack squig fights, it can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon and no more than 2 attacks can be made with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Troops [10 PL, 180pts] +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Categories: Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Ork Boy, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Categories: Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Ork Boy, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Heavy Support [13 PL, 185pts] +

Deff Dreads [7 PL, 100pts]: Stompamatic Pistons [1 PL, 15pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Deff Dread, Heavy Support, Walkerz
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!
. Abilities: Dread Mob, Explodes, Ramshackle, Stompamatic Pistons
. Deff Dread [6 PL, 85pts]: Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw
. . Unit: Deff Dread, Weapon: Dread Klaw
Profiles:
. Dread Mob: Description:After this unit is set up on the battlefield for the first time, if this unit has more than 1 model, all models in this unit must be set up within 6" of another model from this unit. After they are set up for the first time, each model is treated as a seperate unit.
. Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers D3 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Stompamatic Pistons: DescriptionEFF DREAD, GORKANAUT or MORKANAUT model only.

- Add 3" to this model's Move characteristic.
- Add 1 to Advance rolls made for this model.
. Deff Dread: M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:7|W:8|A:3|Ld:7|Save:3+
. Dread Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon

Deff Dreads [6 PL, 85pts]: Big Krumpaz
. Categories: Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Deff Dread, Heavy Support, Walkerz, Faction: Big Krumpaz, Specialist Mob
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!
. Abilities: Big Krumpaz, Dread Mob, Explodes, Ramshackle
. Deff Dread [6 PL, 85pts]: Big Shoota, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw
. . Unit: Deff Dread, Weapon: Big Shoota, Dread Klaw
Profiles:
. Big Krumpaz: DescriptionEFF DREADS, GORKANAUT, MEGA ARMOUR NOBZ, MEGA ARMOUR CHARACTER or MORKANAUT units only. The selected unit gains the following ability:

Krumpin' Time: Each time a BIG KRUMPAZ model makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Dread Mob: Description:After this unit is set up on the battlefield for the first time, if this unit has more than 1 model, all models in this unit must be set up within 6" of another model from this unit. After they are set up for the first time, each model is treated as a seperate unit.
. Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers D3 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Deff Dread: M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:7|W:8|A:3|Ld:7|Save:3+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Dread Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Orks 2021) [30 PL, -2CP, 530pts] ++
Rules: Ork Detachment Abilities, Waaagh!

+ Configuration [-2CP] +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls
. Categories: Configuration
. Abilities: Deathskulls
Profiles:
. Deathskulls: Description:- Each time a unit with this kultur is selected to shoot or fight, you can re-roll one hit roll or one wound roll when resolving that unit's attacks
- Each time a model with this kultur would lose a wound as a result of a mortal wound, roll one D6: on a 5+ that wound is not lost.
- INFANTRY units with this kultur gain the Objective Secured ability.

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]
. Categories: Configuration

+ HQ [4 PL, 70pts] +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 3. Da Jump, 6. Jabbin' Fingerz, Weirdboy Staff
. Categories: Character, HQ, Infantry, Psyker, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Weirdboy
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!
. Abilities: Waaagh! Energy, Psychic Power: Da Jump, Jabbin' Fingerz, Smite, Psyker: Weirdboy, Unit: Weirdboy, Weapon: Weirdboy Staff
Profiles:
. Waaagh! Energy: Description:While there are 20 or more ORKS models (excluding GRETCHIN) within 12" of this model, this model can attempt to manifest one additional psychic power in your Psychic phase.
. Da Jump: Warp Charge:7|Range:12"|Details:BLESSING: Da Jump has a warp charge value of 7. If manifested, select one friendly <CLAN> CORE unit that is within 12" of this PSYKER. Remove that unit from the battlefield and set them up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models.
. Jabbin' Fingerz: Warp Charge:6|Range:18"|Details:MALEDICTION: Jabbin' Fingerz has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one enemy unit that is within 18" of this PSYKER and visible to them. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Smite: Warp Charge:5|Range:18"|Details:Smite has a warp charge value of 5. If manifested, the closest visible enemy unit within 18" of the psyker suffers D3 mortal wounds (pg 181). If the result of the Psychic test was more than 10 the target suffers D6 mortal wounds instead.
. Weirdboy: Cast:1|Deny:1|Powers Known:Smite + 2 PotW|Other:See Waaagh! Energy
. Weirdboy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Weirdboy Staff: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-1|D3|Abilities:-

+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Categories: Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Ork Boy, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Elites [8 PL, 110pts] +

Kommandos [4 PL, 55pts]: Sneaky Gitz
. Categories: Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Elites, Kommando, Mob, Tankbusta Bombs, Faction: Sneaky Gitz, Specialist Mob
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Abilities: Kunnin' Infiltrators, Sneaky Gits, Sneaky Gitz, Throat Slittas
. Boss Nob [15pts]: Power Klaw [5pts], Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob (Kommandos), Weapon: Power Klaw, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 4x Kommando [40pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Kommando, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Kunnin' Infiltrators: Descriptionuring deployment, when you set up this unit it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.
. Sneaky Gits: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to a model in this unit while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 2 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.
. Sneaky Gitz: Description:BOYZ, KOMMANDOS, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the SNEAKY GITZ keyword and the following ability:

Sneaky Gitz: Each time a SNEAKY GITZ model makes a melee attack, if the target is receiving the benefits of cover, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Throat Slittas: Description:Each time a model in this unit makes a melee attack, if it is within 1" of a terrain feature, add 1 to that attack's wound roll.
. Boss Nob (Kommandos): M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Kommando: M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

Kommandos [4 PL, 55pts]
. Categories: Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Elites, Kommando, Mob, Tankbusta Bombs
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Abilities: Kunnin' Infiltrators, Sneaky Gits, Throat Slittas
. Boss Nob [15pts]: Power Klaw [5pts], Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob (Kommandos), Weapon: Power Klaw, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 4x Kommando [40pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Kommando, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Kunnin' Infiltrators: Descriptionuring deployment, when you set up this unit it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.
. Sneaky Gits: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to a model in this unit while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 2 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.
. Throat Slittas: Description:Each time a model in this unit makes a melee attack, if it is within 1" of a terrain feature, add 1 to that attack's wound roll.
. Boss Nob (Kommandos): M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Kommando: M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Fast Attack [6 PL, 110pts] +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts]
. Categories: Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Fast Attack, Stormboyz, Infantry, Jump Pack, Fly, Core, Mob
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Abilities: Full Throttle, Stormboyz Strike
. Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob (Stormboyz), Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Stormboy, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Full Throttle: Description:Each time this unit Advances, do not make an Advance roll. Instead, until the end of the phase, add 6" to the Move characteristic of model's in this unit and roll one D6; on a 4+, this unit suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Stormboyz Strike: Descriptionuring deployment, you can set up this unit high in the skies instead of setting it up on the battlefield. If you do so, then in the Reinforcements step of one of your Movement phases you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.
. Boss Nob (Stormboyz): M:12"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Stormboy: M:12"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts]
. Categories: Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Fast Attack, Stormboyz, Infantry, Jump Pack, Fly, Core, Mob
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Abilities: Full Throttle, Stormboyz Strike
. Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob (Stormboyz), Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Stormboy, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Full Throttle: Description:Each time this unit Advances, do not make an Advance roll. Instead, until the end of the phase, add 6" to the Move characteristic of model's in this unit and roll one D6; on a 4+, this unit suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Stormboyz Strike: Descriptionuring deployment, you can set up this unit high in the skies instead of setting it up on the battlefield. If you do so, then in the Reinforcements step of one of your Movement phases you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.
. Boss Nob (Stormboyz): M:12"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Stormboy: M:12"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 150pts] +

Killa Kans [7 PL, 150pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz
. Abilities: Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit: Killa Kan, Weapon: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [55pts]: Kan Klaw, Rokkit Launcha [15pts]
. . Unit: Killa Kan, Weapon: Kan Klaw, Rokkit launcha
. Killa Kan [55pts]: Kan Klaw, Rokkit Launcha [15pts]
. . Unit: Killa Kan, Weapon: Kan Klaw, Rokkit launcha
Profiles:
. Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-
. Rokkit launcha: Range:24"|Type:Heavy D3|S:8|AP:-2|D:3|Abilities:Blast

++ Roster Rules ++


. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).

. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.

To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.

A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.

WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.

Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.

SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.

Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.

++ Selection Rules ++


. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.

. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength

Something like this for 1000 pts? As much as I would love playing such a list at 500pts, walkers are simply too expensive :(

pepi55 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

Okay but who brings a naut to a 1000pts game? I thought 250+ pts for a unit is a bad investment in low point games. Never have been exactly clear on the exact amount though. if 300pts are okay for low point games I would actually much rather add Ghaz.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

 R1ncewind wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer that a dread waaagh style army still isn't quite viable with the current codex we got. I have a bad feeling they're going to try and make a regiment of renown in the next charadon book that basically lets us do that. I find that Deffskullz may one of the more optimal klanz for deffskullz since you can give obsec to the stormboyz/kommandos you need for secondaries/primaries.

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks 2021) [28 PL, 6CP, 470pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Warboss [5 PL, 105pts]: Attack Squig, Fasta Than Yooz, Kombi-skorcha, Power Klaw, Rezmekka's Redder Paint, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Deff Dreads [7 PL, 100pts]: Stompamatic Pistons
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw

Deff Dreads [6 PL, 85pts]: Big Krumpaz
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Orks 2021) [30 PL, -2CP, 530pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 3. Da Jump, 6. Jabbin' Fingerz

+ Troops +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

+ Elites +

Kommandos [4 PL, 55pts]: Sneaky Gitz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 4x Kommando: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Kommandos [4 PL, 55pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 4x Kommando: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 4x Stormboy: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 4x Stormboy: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Killa Kans [7 PL, 150pts]
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Kan Klaw, Rokkit Launcha
. Killa Kan: Kan Klaw, Rokkit Launcha

Something like this for 1000 pts? As much as I would love playing such a list at 500pts, walkers are simply too expensive :(

Please consider not having all the rules in your list. We can assume people here know them, it will make the list more readable and people more likely to respond

 Vineheart01 wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

Okay but who brings a naut to a 1000pts game? I thought 250+ pts for a unit is a bad investment in low point games. Never have been exactly clear on the exact amount though. if 300pts are okay for low point games I would actually much rather add Ghaz.

Depends on who youre talking to.
Most people that play smaller games are super casual, so yeah they wouldnt bother.
Then theres some that do it because they think "its more balanced" and bring said big unit, which runs rampant if there wasnt a counter for it. And at 1k points its very likely that isnt a proper counter for it. Or if there was, it was a single unit that could threaten it so it got focus fired fast.

 koooaei wrote:
Manz seem better than bigchoppa nobz.
They got their price reduced, their movement increased and, most importantly, can also be trukkboyz which opens up a lot of possibilities. I think that even kombirokkit manz can be ok as trukkboyz.

 OOTN wrote:
Yeah I've certainly heard about the power of squighogs. I'm trying to work mostly with what I have though. You've made it tricky to decide. I guess it comes down to whether I actually need more than the six MANZ I already have.

How about warbikers? How are they stacking up? 10 S5 shots sounds sounds good on paper. Are they T6 now? That would be pretty cool.

 OOTN wrote:
Yeah I've certainly heard about the power of squighogs. I'm trying to work mostly with what I have though. You've made it tricky to decide. I guess it comes down to whether I actually need more than the six MANZ I already have.

How about warbikers? How are they stacking up? 10 S5 shots sounds sounds good on paper. Are they T6 now? That would be pretty cool.

 Blackie wrote:
Showin' Off is also a very good buff to slap on Bad Moons bikers, especially for large units.

cody.d. wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Showin' Off is also a very good buff to slap on Bad Moons bikers, especially for large units.

Reckon it'd be worth stacking showing off, more dakka and the speedwaagh on a big unit of bikes? Though i'm a bit too much of an ork to do the math it does feel like a wonderful amount of decent dakka to throw at an opponant.

pepi55 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

You need to reread that strat again. Its Beastsnagga Infantry, Cavalry AND Monster, not just Monster.

I think he means Beastsnagga*(infantry + cavalry + monster) instead of (Beastsnagga*infantry) + cavalry + monster
using math terms cause language is confusing like that sometimes especially if its not your main language.

Anyway, if beastsnagga applies to each of infantry, cavalry and monster, it implies a beastsnagga monster. What I dont understand is that a monster in a beastsnagga detachment is technically a beastsnagga monster right?

Kebabcito wrote:
Freebooters aura count as showin off for every unit :(

Played today against tournament winner player Drukhari.

My list was Outrider Bad Moons with defkilla/buggies/flyers and Goffs with squigs and stuff.

I lost but destroyed tons of his models, I would have never thought I could face him at this level. He's always tabling everyone turn 2 or 3 and I fkd up all his raiders and destroyed lot of his models.

The problem was, I could only focus in defending myself and killing while he was just so relaxed doing secondaries and destroying all my screens.

- The wombo combo of Blastajet destroying Raiders and Dakkajet destroying the trops disembarked is nice.
- Moto need protection, they are our highest source of damage and they die very quickly against incubi.
- .KillRig IS EXTREMLY GOOD against drukhari, he CANNOT focus him with Dark Lances because he NEED to focus the buggies in order to reduce your damage, so your KillRig is free stomping the middle of the table all his troops. If he prefers to stay back, objective is yours.
- Warboss on squiggosaur has the damage, but his highest hype is high tankyness. I just didn't care if I had to fight first or fight last, I knew I would survive against any damage (Drazhar, Succubus, Incubi, Wyches) and then just stomp then with no mercy.
- -1 to hit in Defkilla is OK to protect buggies, deffkoptas an stuff. Still don't expect a lot of tankyness against F8.
- Drukhari need nerfs. Not on his mechanisms, but in his points. No way he had a lot of models after all that annihilation I did in 2 turns... He won because he was still able to do all the missions with 5% of his army...

 koooaei wrote:
Manz seem better than bigchoppa nobz.
They got their price reduced, their movement increased and, most importantly, can also be trukkboyz which opens up a lot of possibilities. I think that even kombirokkit manz can be ok as trukkboyz.

 OOTN wrote:
Played a game today with a squad of 9 bikers. Have to admit that's a really nice way to spend 230 points. With speedwaagh and showin off they do an impressive amount of damage with that 108 shots. Just wish they got to shoot more than once, but that's ork life for you.

I was disappointed with the performance of my shoota boyz. I'm really not sure they're worth taking anymore, which is a shame since I've got so many of them. The loss of assault is really painful and I definitely felt it every movement phase. Choppa's also being AP1 now just makes it even more difficult to justify shootas. The additional shot on shootas seems great but in practice I was rarely within half range because I was so slow, and that's with the Bad Moonz range increase.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't quite understand the Kommandos entry; there's a huge list of wargear options, and the condition for each is that the squad must have ten models.
So if I have a ten model squad of kommandos, can I give each one of them a weapon from that list, provided I don't pick an option twice?

epronovost wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't quite understand the Kommandos entry; there's a huge list of wargear options, and the condition for each is that the squad must have ten models.
So if I have a ten model squad of kommandos, can I give each one of them a weapon from that list, provided I don't pick an option twice?

Basically yes. It's going to be much easier to understand when we will be able to buy the new Kommando squad. Basically, you have 4 regular guys, 1 nob and 5 special weapon guys but only one special weapon of each type in the box and since you can only equip a single unit with what's available in a single box of that single unit, you can only have one special weapon of each type per 10 kommandos. Did I help clear that up?

 Afrodactyl wrote:

I honestly think the only role shoota boys have now is to sit on a home plate objective and perform actions. And they're outclassed by basically everything else in the book.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

I honestly think the only role shoota boys have now is to sit on a home plate objective and perform actions. And they're outclassed by basically everything else in the book.

I'm going to go a step further and say that there is no reason to leave shoota boyz at home sitting on objectives and performing actions because its likely better to have AP-1 Choppas on standby for that random assault that seems to happen when others try to cap an objective.

Think about it this way, 10 shoota boyz average 6.66 hits a turn Against T4 thats 3.33 wounds. Against a Marine 3+ save that is 1.11 dmg, so it would take you 2 full turns to kill 1 Marine. And with the relative short range of the weapon, its not a guarantee you will have range to anything anyway, and if the answer is "well take a big shoota"...at 19+ range that big shoota averages 1 hit and 0.22dmg vs a Marine.

 Nora wrote:
I think that a Wiedboy with Da Jump is a good support for a larger unit of Bad Moons Bikers since it allows them to shoot and possible charge, despite being stuck in CC at the start of the turn.

For the Speedwaaagh! Warboss, would you consider the Wartrike or the Warboss on Bike (as ruled today) to be the better choice?
The profiles are similar, maybe one more in (T) is trumps one ore in (W) in favor for the bike but the lack of invo-save on the bike makes it (for me) mandatory to ether use the warlord trait or the relic to get it. For the Wartrike you might be content with the 5++. Ramshackle is of curse also very nice. I think the Snagga Klaw is better than the regular Power Claw but the relic claw is solid option that the the Wartrike does not have.
However the biggest difference for me, between the two is the base size. For this reason I think the Warboss on Bike is the better.
Happy to here your comments on this!

 koooaei wrote:
To be honest, boyz are so underwhelming in any role they try to achieve, it's better not take them at all. If you're dead set on running at least some, better take choppas. At least they can hide behind blos and try to act as a charge deterrant.

Maybe trukkboyz could be used cause you might need 3 infantry slots and you want your troops to be able to do at least anything other than score...

But it's a hard task to find a role for any type of boyz that is not better filled by either grots, kommandoez or meganobz.

All in all, there seem to be no benefits in running boyz. Their durability us bad, their mellee damage is underwhelming, the only thing they can do better than grots and meganobz is charge something that's a min troop squad that is still too numerous for manz to chew through in one go and that they can't shoot at with their kombishootas effectively cause of Los or 2+ armor in cover. Or try to surround a poorly armored transport to get on a point and not be shot at but they generally lack speed for it. Such units are not all that common outside of enemy deployment zone for at least a couple turns. And you're paying a hedty price for this unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
10 boyz are a buggy.

Just stick to grots and get half a buggy.

 koooaei wrote:
Trike does some shooting, it's somewhat tougher, a bit faster and it's a source of untargetable -1 to hit for all your speedfreaks. It has it's fair share of advantages.

 Blackie wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Trike does some shooting, it's somewhat tougher, a bit faster and it's a source of untargetable -1 to hit for all your speedfreaks. It has it's fair share of advantages.

Shooting I don't know, biker boss is still a bike and twin dakkaguns are far superior than 3 twin boomstikks. Killa jet is good but has very short range and model's still only BS5+ if he uses the melta profile.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

There goes my collection then. I have mostly boyz :/
I only have something like 10 grots and a runtherd.

Psychocouac wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

There goes my collection then. I have mostly boyz :/
I only have something like 10 grots and a runtherd.

Same. *Cry in 150 boyz and 10 grots*

 koooaei wrote:


Let's see what happens to a biker boss later on. It might get squattes yet again.

 koooaei wrote:
To be honest, boyz are so underwhelming in any role they try to achieve, it's better not take them at all. If you're dead set on running at least some, better take choppas. At least they can hide behind blos and try to act as a charge deterrant.

Maybe trukkboyz could be used cause you might need 3 infantry slots and you want your troops to be able to do at least anything other than score...

But it's a hard task to find a role for any type of boyz that is not better filled by either grots, kommandoez or meganobz.

All in all, there seem to be no benefits in running boyz. Their durability us bad, their mellee damage is underwhelming, the only thing they can do better than grots and meganobz is charge something that's a min troop squad that is still too numerous for manz to chew through in one go and that they can't shoot at with their kombishootas effectively cause of Los or 2+ armor in cover. Or try to surround a poorly armored transport to get on a point and not be shot at but they generally lack speed for it. Such units are not all that common outside of enemy deployment zone for at least a couple turns. And you're paying a hedty price for this unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
10 boyz are a buggy.

Just stick to grots and get half a buggy.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Don't you mean 4/3? The first number is the one you use at close range. 3/4 would be 3 shots at half and 4 shots past that.

 Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

gungo wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

We have biker bosses? Didn't those go into the legacy oubliette or whatever its called?

gungo wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

Looking at the changes that other armies got... that's just army wide rules and keyword fixes and even those aren't particularly thorough.

So the most likely case is that he will get either warboss or speedboss removed and nothing else, I'm fairly sure that we will not be seeing a new datasheet.

Kebabcito wrote:
Warboss in bike is good candidate for Killa Klaw, as his speed and screen by bikes can avoid damage.

Making him tanky is useless, he will die if he has to die.

 koooaei wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
Warboss in bike is good candidate for Killa Klaw, as his speed and screen by bikes can avoid damage.

Making him tanky is useless, he will die if he has to die.

It's nice to be able not to die vs an odd melta shot.

cody.d. wrote:
Though in all likleyhood that also means that the stompas lifta droppas may get a change. Since they were buffed smashagunz for all intense and purposes. Though, if they keep their statlines and get a decrease I don think a kustom stompa becomes rather enticing.

 koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

 koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

pepi55 wrote:
So turns out that grots arent useless after all.... I guess the reason they got nerfed is because with the boyz nerfs, only grots will be taken.

Grots not having obsec is probably supposed to mitigate that I think but not really successfully seems to be the case. Too bad for the boyz...

The "boyz are terrible" thing, does that also regard the snagga boyz? or are they fine to be taken for more that objective holding purposes?

Kebabcito wrote:
T5 Boyz with 6+ are EXACTLY the same as T4 5++ Boyz. They have exactly the same survival capabilities against F4, and they die even faster against F3 and poisons. Being new Boyz more expensive, cannot DaJump properly, cannot resurrect, cannot pass moral and only advance and charge one turn. For 90 points you've got a Scrapjet. This is not a nerf, just the removal of a miniature from the board.

The difference between a list with 1000p of buggies/aircraft + 1000p of squigs/Kommando/Stormboyz and the list of 2000p old Greentide is so big we could talk about the same powerlevel difference of AdMech and Tyranids.

pepi55 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

But why are we comparing to DE, admech and GK?
DE and admech are simply too cheap from what I understand so that battle is already lost until some kind of price change.
GK are comparable to custodes from what I know (dont have their codex to double check) and it sounds like youre comparing 9ppm units to units with ridiculous costs.

Im interested to hear how they compare on average against other armies.
I haven't heard a comparison against spehs mahreens and necrons yet. How do boys compare to those?
I know about MEQ wounds and stuff but I think 10 boys can handle a single squad of SM troops right?
Against necrons I myself only played 8th codex so im also curious how the new boyz can handle necrons.

 Scactha wrote:
Goonhammer seems to disagree on Boyz

Ork Review

Beardedragon wrote:
alright so i charged through 3 games 2 days ago, 2 games with 26x3 boys and one with more mechanized focus with buggies and tankbustas in a gargantuan squiggoth for the giggles. not interested in going over everything just a few things.

Boys:

Large groups of boys? yea i dont see the use honestly. my first battle was with goffs where the next was with snakebites to maximize damage mitigation. Both armies had a painboy and KFF. That boys have Toughness 5 is in and out of itself good, the -1AP good as well which means ends up not being a problem for the +1 to their cost.

But man do i feel like boys suck now, and theres a plethora of reasons for it. for starter, the loss of +1 attack when being above 20 models means there is no reason at all move around with big groups. There are also very very few stratagems that really benefit boys being in large groups. So while we got -1AP choppas we also lost +1 attack, but also +1 attack from ghaz which now only ever works when you call a normal waaagh. Furthermore boys are much more slow now as they cant advance and charge anymore. There are also quite a few ways some factions can or outright ignore -1 or 2AP meaning on those targets, the -1AP dont help us and if that came at the loss of +1 attack above 20, then it sucks. And then the change of "ere' we go" being rerolling both die rather than 1 die is just devastating.

Back before people knew they needed to keep a decent distance to boys, but now boys will just be kited around, or very few trash infantry or chaff will be thrown your way around turn 2 to block you from making proper charges, because they know it will only happen once during the entire game. Boys being slower and hitting less, means that theres suddenly no reason not to fill out your rooster with just Kommandos that receives many more buffs for just +1 point. Or maybe Stormboys.

And then the biggest issue: Morale. if you run blobs of 30, even your Toughness 5 wont stop the enemy from killing 7 models. you now basically auto lose morale unless you wanna waste 2CP to pass it. Its not difficult to lose 7 boys especially with blast rules, so your enemy does that to two of your boys blobs and you now spend 4CP +D3 MW if you want them to stay on the field or lose 1/6th of 23 boys per squad. I s it fair to get +1 point for +1 toughness and -1AP on choppas? Sure. Is it fair when you consider all the other direct and indirect nerfs they have received? feth no. If anything id throw them down to 8 ppm again. morale issues, fewer attacks, no advance and charge regularily on a 5" movement unit is not.. a fair price at all.

I can see boys running multiple 10 man squads maybe, but not big blobs. because why would you?


Killa Kanz:
Interesting unit that can finally use stratagems, just too bad there arent any fething stratagems to pick between barring maybe more dakka if you run big shootas or ramming speed. But the combo of tellyporting in 6 killa kanz and ramming speed is now viable, and it seems to be doing fine. What angers me a little bit is that most units went up 1 toughness, but killa kanz didnt. This also means they are fighting with Deffkoptas over almost the same spot who also has Toughness 5. While Deffkoptas SHOULD be more surgical strike'ish they are almost as hardy as Killa Kanz. Killa Kanz should have toughness 6 to make them better at brawling and staying in the fight. Their damage output is decent though, but once again, leadership is an issue. Because you ramming speed them in, 55ppm if you run rokkits you must kill for 330 points, because odds are your kanz are gone next turn. either to direct fire or morale. Seeing 55 points run off to morale thats not difficult to do for your enemy, isnt really that fair.

Mek Gunz:
Oh feth me how the mighty have fallen. I dont even care if Mek Gunz come in units, but what i do care about, is the fact they have gone UP in price WHILE having leadership 4. Kill a single Mek Gun (which isnt difficult) and have 50% chance the next will run off. This is even bigger of a problem than Killa Kanz, but the point still stands. Its not fair to have a 50% chance to see a 45ppm run off because a super easy vehicle was destroyed. If they want to stay in a unit, they should have a morale of at least 6.

Sure you could put them in lone squads, but that just takes up heavy slots, and you dont want that on a 45ppm only. As i see it, im fething done with Mek Gunz.

Dakka Jets:
Pretty good unit. But they definitely benefit more from Freebootas id say than Bad Moon. I ran them as bad moon, and even though you have 42 shots with a speed waagh (my more dakka kustom job never went off) hitting on 5s is still kind of sad, and the extra -1AP on wound rolls of 6s dont happen that often due to you hitting on 5s. I had a max of like 3 or 4 wound rolls of -3AP rather than the rest of -2AP. But if i had run freebootas, there would have been a ton of shots that could have hit to begin with. I dont know if freebootas would be better, but i definitely believe that they would. Just havent tried it yet.

Over all, pretty decent unit. Many shots misses, but with sheer weight of die and for 120 points i see uses for it.

Scrapjet:
Good with lower cost and more big shoota shots. Loss of hitting on 6s with wing missile unless you target vehicles is pretty good too. Super sad with the loss of kustom job for +4 attacks, and annoying they have to come in units, but over all i feel like it can work. We can also just run an outrider detatchment i guess.

Kommandos:
Good unit. Nice with forward deploy. Has weird synegy with stormboys if you want to make a massive turn 1 charge. But also competes a bit with stormboys for the same role that they can achieve differently. One forward deploys and deals better damage and can take more punishment in cover, where the other one just deepstrikes in. Over all, im very pleased with kommandos, and i see them being used as replacement for boys in the future, because why wouldnt you? 10 boys is only 10 points less than 10 kommandos yet you can forward deploy, +1 wound, 3 up save in ruins.

Mega Nobz
Good for 35 ppm, over priced for 45 point with killsaws. Why am i paying more for my terminators that has no invul, cant shoot properly and cant deepstrike, than anyone else does for their terminator variants?Mega Nobz with killsaws shouldnt be a day over 40 points, hell id go as far as to say that killsaws should have been 35 and the normal mega nob variant should be 32ppm. Paying the same or more as others do for their terminators has always bugged me when mega nobz can only do one thing good (killing heavies), where everyone elses can do multiple things good. With Ghaz they used to be worth it, now they are not.

Anyway, paying 35ppm is decent with powerklaws. I will not pay 45ppm for killsaws however.

Weirdboy and wurrboy:
You can cast 2 powers when above 20 models. You gain no extra casting for being near boys, even though that would be better. Id rather pay extra points to be able to cast 2 powers but they didnt like that idea apparently. I dont like the new weirdboy as it makes our casting very unreliable. Why take da jump when it goes off on a 7? Its not reliable. And even if it goes off, our charges can reroll both die rather than 1 die, meaing, even if i get off my da jump on a 7, theres still no guarantee they can get in to combat, as rolling a 9 now is an absolute bitch.

The Wurrboy is the same. no extra casting by models nearby, and his good damage powers are very short. Frazzle being 9" (which is fair due to how it works) and squiggly curse being 12". You wont be doing any casting turn 1 thats for sure, and theres not even a guarantee turn 2 unless you start in a vehicle.

Over all i have mixed feelings about some of the things in the codex. Somethings are very good others dont make any fething sense.

Stratagems at 2CP for the most part and dont really do a lot (which is fine if it werent for every other faction having access to crazy ass stratagems where we dont). it feels like everyone was over tuned stratagem wise and we have the necron treatment at that. Still, too many 2CP stratagems where we also have negative things happening. like the KFF stratagem. why am i paying 2CP when i ALSO lose it afterwards? When you pay 2CP, you dont want a negative point hitting you afterwards.

Kustom jobs are mainly meh, some are useful. cant be used on a unit of buggies is slowed. at least let one unit then have the kustom job rather than forcing that model to be alone. uneccesary tax.
Boys in large blobs dont make sense as far as i can tell. Theres too much auto wound on 6s, +1 to wound and shinanigans and all the other nerfs direct or indirect boys received means that +1 to their cost isnt fair. Swarming the table with boys werent super useful before unless you went ghaz, now its even less feasable. Loss of Green tide is also devastating.

Beardedragon wrote:
alright so i charged through 3 games 2 days ago, 2 games with 26x3 boys and one with more mechanized focus with buggies and tankbustas in a gargantuan squiggoth for the giggles. not interested in going over everything just a few things.

Spoiler:

Boys:

Large groups of boys? yea i dont see the use honestly. my first battle was with goffs where the next was with snakebites to maximize damage mitigation. Both armies had a painboy and KFF. That boys have Toughness 5 is in and out of itself good, the -1AP good as well which means ends up not being a problem for the +1 to their cost.

But man do i feel like boys suck now, and theres a plethora of reasons for it. for starter, the loss of +1 attack when being above 20 models means there is no reason at all move around with big groups. There are also very very few stratagems that really benefit boys being in large groups. So while we got -1AP choppas we also lost +1 attack, but also +1 attack from ghaz which now only ever works when you call a normal waaagh. Furthermore boys are much more slow now as they cant advance and charge anymore. There are also quite a few ways some factions can or outright ignore -1 or 2AP meaning on those targets, the -1AP dont help us and if that came at the loss of +1 attack above 20, then it sucks. And then the change of "ere' we go" being rerolling both die rather than 1 die is just devastating.

Back before people knew they needed to keep a decent distance to boys, but now boys will just be kited around, or very few trash infantry or chaff will be thrown your way around turn 2 to block you from making proper charges, because they know it will only happen once during the entire game. Boys being slower and hitting less, means that theres suddenly no reason not to fill out your rooster with just Kommandos that receives many more buffs for just +1 point. Or maybe Stormboys.

And then the biggest issue: Morale. if you run blobs of 30, even your Toughness 5 wont stop the enemy from killing 7 models. you now basically auto lose morale unless you wanna waste 2CP to pass it. Its not difficult to lose 7 boys especially with blast rules, so your enemy does that to two of your boys blobs and you now spend 4CP +D3 MW if you want them to stay on the field or lose 1/6th of 23 boys per squad. I s it fair to get +1 point for +1 toughness and -1AP on choppas? Sure. Is it fair when you consider all the other direct and indirect nerfs they have received? feth no. If anything id throw them down to 8 ppm again. morale issues, fewer attacks, no advance and charge regularily on a 5" movement unit is not.. a fair price at all.

I can see boys running multiple 10 man squads maybe, but not big blobs. because why would you?


Killa Kanz:
Interesting unit that can finally use stratagems, just too bad there arent any fething stratagems to pick between barring maybe more dakka if you run big shootas or ramming speed. But the combo of tellyporting in 6 killa kanz and ramming speed is now viable, and it seems to be doing fine. What angers me a little bit is that most units went up 1 toughness, but killa kanz didnt. This also means they are fighting with Deffkoptas over almost the same spot who also has Toughness 5. While Deffkoptas SHOULD be more surgical strike'ish they are almost as hardy as Killa Kanz. Killa Kanz should have toughness 6 to make them better at brawling and staying in the fight. Their damage output is decent though, but once again, leadership is an issue. Because you ramming speed them in, 55ppm if you run rokkits you must kill for 330 points, because odds are your kanz are gone next turn. either to direct fire or morale. Seeing 55 points run off to morale thats not difficult to do for your enemy, isnt really that fair.

Mek Gunz:
Oh feth me how the mighty have fallen. I dont even care if Mek Gunz come in units, but what i do care about, is the fact they have gone UP in price WHILE having leadership 4. Kill a single Mek Gun (which isnt difficult) and have 50% chance the next will run off. This is even bigger of a problem than Killa Kanz, but the point still stands. Its not fair to have a 50% chance to see a 45ppm run off because a super easy vehicle was destroyed. If they want to stay in a unit, they should have a morale of at least 6.

Sure you could put them in lone squads, but that just takes up heavy slots, and you dont want that on a 45ppm only. As i see it, im fething done with Mek Gunz.

Dakka Jets:
Pretty good unit. But they definitely benefit more from Freebootas id say than Bad Moon. I ran them as bad moon, and even though you have 42 shots with a speed waagh (my more dakka kustom job never went off) hitting on 5s is still kind of sad, and the extra -1AP on wound rolls of 6s dont happen that often due to you hitting on 5s. I had a max of like 3 or 4 wound rolls of -3AP rather than the rest of -2AP. But if i had run freebootas, there would have been a ton of shots that could have hit to begin with. I dont know if freebootas would be better, but i definitely believe that they would. Just havent tried it yet.

Over all, pretty decent unit. Many shots misses, but with sheer weight of die and for 120 points i see uses for it.

Scrapjet:
Good with lower cost and more big shoota shots. Loss of hitting on 6s with wing missile unless you target vehicles is pretty good too. Super sad with the loss of kustom job for +4 attacks, and annoying they have to come in units, but over all i feel like it can work. We can also just run an outrider detatchment i guess.

Kommandos:
Good unit. Nice with forward deploy. Has weird synegy with stormboys if you want to make a massive turn 1 charge. But also competes a bit with stormboys for the same role that they can achieve differently. One forward deploys and deals better damage and can take more punishment in cover, where the other one just deepstrikes in. Over all, im very pleased with kommandos, and i see them being used as replacement for boys in the future, because why wouldnt you? 10 boys is only 10 points less than 10 kommandos yet you can forward deploy, +1 wound, 3 up save in ruins.

Mega Nobz
Good for 35 ppm, over priced for 45 point with killsaws. Why am i paying more for my terminators that has no invul, cant shoot properly and cant deepstrike, than anyone else does for their terminator variants?Mega Nobz with killsaws shouldnt be a day over 40 points, hell id go as far as to say that killsaws should have been 35 and the normal mega nob variant should be 32ppm. Paying the same or more as others do for their terminators has always bugged me when mega nobz can only do one thing good (killing heavies), where everyone elses can do multiple things good. With Ghaz they used to be worth it, now they are not.

Anyway, paying 35ppm is decent with powerklaws. I will not pay 45ppm for killsaws however.

Weirdboy and wurrboy:
You can cast 2 powers when above 20 models. You gain no extra casting for being near boys, even though that would be better. Id rather pay extra points to be able to cast 2 powers but they didnt like that idea apparently. I dont like the new weirdboy as it makes our casting very unreliable. Why take da jump when it goes off on a 7? Its not reliable. And even if it goes off, our charges can reroll both die rather than 1 die, meaing, even if i get off my da jump on a 7, theres still no guarantee they can get in to combat, as rolling a 9 now is an absolute bitch.

The Wurrboy is the same. no extra casting by models nearby, and his good damage powers are very short. Frazzle being 9" (which is fair due to how it works) and squiggly curse being 12". You wont be doing any casting turn 1 thats for sure, and theres not even a guarantee turn 2 unless you start in a vehicle.

Over all i have mixed feelings about some of the things in the codex. Somethings are very good others dont make any fething sense.

Stratagems at 2CP for the most part and dont really do a lot (which is fine if it werent for every other faction having access to crazy ass stratagems where we dont). it feels like everyone was over tuned stratagem wise and we have the necron treatment at that. Still, too many 2CP stratagems where we also have negative things happening. like the KFF stratagem. why am i paying 2CP when i ALSO lose it afterwards? When you pay 2CP, you dont want a negative point hitting you afterwards.

Kustom jobs are mainly meh, some are useful. cant be used on a unit of buggies is slowed. at least let one unit then have the kustom job rather than forcing that model to be alone. uneccesary tax.
Boys in large blobs dont make sense as far as i can tell. Theres too much auto wound on 6s, +1 to wound and shinanigans and all the other nerfs direct or indirect boys received means that +1 to their cost isnt fair. Swarming the table with boys werent super useful before unless you went ghaz, now its even less feasable. Loss of Green tide is also devastating.

Afrodactyl wrote:
Boyz still have a place in the army list, they just need to be used slightly differently is all. Snaggas are good, especially in a vehicle/monster meta. Shoota boys are garbage though, especially in comparison to the army's other choices.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm talking from a competitive pov. If you're not comparing boyz to what's brought to the table in competitive games, what's the point of comparing them at all - just pick a squad to your liking and you'll be fine in non-competitive games.

Boyz don't have enough choppingness and durability to oppose marine lists with dreads but vs necrons can be semi-ok at chopping scarabs that will likely try to tie you up t1 and occupy the board.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
@pepi55

probably referring to the lack of AP on them comparatively.

It used to basically be choppa boyz = 3 melee attacks, shoota boyz = 2 ranged 2 melee. Considering WS is 3 that extra melee was likely to hit as often as 1 of those shooting shots.
And they used to be identical otherwise. Now theyre not, choppas are ap1. And their dakka profile wont realistically kick in for them since its so dang short unless you either divebomb a trukk up the field or use the strat (which is 100% reserved for warbikers imo)

I dont think shoota boyz are totally worthless but they definitely lost most of their appeal vs choppa boyz purely because choppa boy swings, while only in melee, are more likely to do something.

 koooaei wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

But why are we comparing to DE, admech and GK?
DE and admech are simply too cheap from what I understand so that battle is already lost until some kind of price change.
GK are comparable to custodes from what I know (dont have their codex to double check) and it sounds like youre comparing 9ppm units to units with ridiculous costs.

Im interested to hear how they compare on average against other armies.
I haven't heard a comparison against spehs mahreens and necrons yet. How do boys compare to those?
I know about MEQ wounds and stuff but I think 10 boys can handle a single squad of SM troops right?
Against necrons I myself only played 8th codex so im also curious how the new boyz can handle necrons.

I'm talking from a competitive pov. If you're not comparing boyz to what's brought to the table in competitive games, what's the point of comparing them at all - just pick a squad to your liking and you'll be fine in non-competitive games.

Boyz don't have enough choppingness and durability to oppose marine lists with dreads but vs necrons can be semi-ok at chopping scarabs that will likely try to tie you up t1 and occupy the board.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I have about 60 slugga boys and 30 shoota boyz.
Is it better to go all mechanized and put everyone in trucks, or do I just mechanize the slugga boyz and have the shoota boyz in a big mob? Or do I just not take shoota boyz at all?
I'm trying to work out what's the most efficient way to run my collection.

pepi55 wrote:

Afrodactyl wrote:
Boyz still have a place in the army list, they just need to be used slightly differently is all. Snaggas are good, especially in a vehicle/monster meta. Shoota boys are garbage though, especially in comparison to the army's other choices.

Please elaborate on how you think they should be used now?
Good thing I haven't modelled my shoota boiz kits yet. They will probably end up as choppa boiz or as bodies for lootas+burnas

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are lootas and burnas viable?
I know lootas got something of a nerf (why does a fire support unit have a dakka weapon?) but apparently burnas got improved?

Kebabcito wrote:
I honestly don't understand the point in those burnas in the list without Trukk. They may go with grots with 'orrible gitz due that the -1 to hit doesn't matter. But I don't know where.

For protecting the deployment zone, I think there are better units by far.

 koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Meh my rig is going to be a goff rokker stadium.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Meh my rig is going to be a goff rokker stadium.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah thats my opinion too.
Snaggas feel pointless as they are BARELY better than boyz and boyz arent that great to begin with, but the rig is awesome and all it can transport period is beastsnaggas so...might as well pay the extra 30pts for snaggas vs boyz to jump inside it instead of paying for a trukk.

gungo wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

Snaggas only benefit is they can ride on a Killrig
The 6++ and +1 to hit on vehicles/monsters is kinda useful…
But not worth the cost upgrade.
I only take them because Killrig can transport them and that saves me from buying a mostly useless trukk for the boys.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Scactha wrote:
Goonhammer seems to disagree on Boyz

Ork Review

While goonhammer tends to write really good articles most of the time, their orks review is merely an average "blogger assumes orks work like marines" garbage post you can get pretty much everywhere.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Hey gang, I want to quickly make a note of something that I hadn't noticed before:

"Some rules can generate additional attacks during the attack sequence itself, e.g. ‘after resolving all this model’s attacks, it
can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the inflict
damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.’ In these cases, these additional attacks can never benefit from rules that
let you roll more than one hit roll for each attack being made –
they can only ever generate one additional hit roll for each attack
being made – but all other rules that are triggered by attacks, or
that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by
other rules) apply to each additional hit roll. In addition, these additional attacks cannot themselves trigger any rules that would generate any further additional attacks."

^this is the new FAQ that removed the 'super blender succubus' interaction with Competitive Edge.

however, I want to take note of a bit of wording on several abilities our various characters have, for example, The Beastboss on Squigosaur's Squigosaur Jaws:

"Each time the bearer fights, it makes 3 additional attacks with this weapon..."

Does this rule count as a "Rule that causes a model to make additional attacks during the attack sequence" and therefore additional attacks from things like Beast Choppas, Choppas, Attack Squigs, Squigosaur Jaws etc cannot generate more bonus attacks from for example Goffs Kultur and Brutal But Kunnin?

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm not talking about errors - I'm talking about lacking the basic understanding of how orks work. Just look at that quote you posted:

"one weapon with 1d6 shots that is terrible at shooting vehicles and another single shot weapon hitting on 6+ instead of 5+? Insane!"
That's just dumb gak you see from people who have zero experience with building ork lists and playing them.

Goonhammer usually knows their gak, so it's extremely disappointing to see such an article about orks that's essentially spikey bits or BOLS levels of quality.

Beardedragon wrote:


Mek Gunz:
Oh feth me how the mighty have fallen. I dont even care if Mek Gunz come in units, but what i do care about, is the fact they have gone UP in price WHILE having leadership 4. Kill a single Mek Gun (which isnt difficult) and have 50% chance the next will run off. This is even bigger of a problem than Killa Kanz, but the point still stands. Its not fair to have a 50% chance to see a 45ppm run off because a super easy vehicle was destroyed. If they want to stay in a unit, they should have a morale of at least 6.

Sure you could put them in lone squads, but that just takes up heavy slots, and you dont want that on a 45ppm only. As i see it, im fething done with Mek Gunz.


Mega Nobz
Good for 35 ppm, over priced for 45 point with killsaws. Why am i paying more for my terminators that has no invul, cant shoot properly and cant deepstrike, than anyone else does for their terminator variants?Mega Nobz with killsaws shouldnt be a day over 40 points, hell id go as far as to say that killsaws should have been 35 and the normal mega nob variant should be 32ppm. Paying the same or more as others do for their terminators has always bugged me when mega nobz can only do one thing good (killing heavies), where everyone elses can do multiple things good. With Ghaz they used to be worth it, now they are not.

Anyway, paying 35ppm is decent with powerklaws. I will not pay 45ppm for killsaws however.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are lootas and burnas viable?
I know lootas got something of a nerf (why does a fire support unit have a dakka weapon?) but apparently burnas got improved?

 Blackie wrote:

Lootas have been improved. Now they're chaper, gained T5, lost penalty if they moved, fire guaranteed 2 shoots and if embarked in a trukk should easily get the full 3. Only downside is the presence of a mek every 5 dudes, but even with him the unit is now deadlier than in 8th. I wouldn't field them on foot though, now they're basically another trukk unit. For extra protection, chance to get better LOS and max out their shots.

 Blackie wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:


Mek Gunz:
Oh feth me how the mighty have fallen. I dont even care if Mek Gunz come in units, but what i do care about, is the fact they have gone UP in price WHILE having leadership 4. Kill a single Mek Gun (which isnt difficult) and have 50% chance the next will run off. This is even bigger of a problem than Killa Kanz, but the point still stands. Its not fair to have a 50% chance to see a 45ppm run off because a super easy vehicle was destroyed. If they want to stay in a unit, they should have a morale of at least 6.

Sure you could put them in lone squads, but that just takes up heavy slots, and you dont want that on a 45ppm only. As i see it, im fething done with Mek Gunz.


Mega Nobz
Good for 35 ppm, over priced for 45 point with killsaws. Why am i paying more for my terminators that has no invul, cant shoot properly and cant deepstrike, than anyone else does for their terminator variants?Mega Nobz with killsaws shouldnt be a day over 40 points, hell id go as far as to say that killsaws should have been 35 and the normal mega nob variant should be 32ppm. Paying the same or more as others do for their terminators has always bugged me when mega nobz can only do one thing good (killing heavies), where everyone elses can do multiple things good. With Ghaz they used to be worth it, now they are not.

Anyway, paying 35ppm is decent with powerklaws. I will not pay 45ppm for killsaws however.

I disagree about these. Mek gunz became much more killy for just +5 points. KMKs and Traktor Kannons are so much better than old 40ppm Smasha Gunz that it's a significant improvement. Sure, bringing lone models might suck, but orks are encouraged to go multi detachment so it shouldn't be a problem. Fielding 2 or 3 is trivial, people who used to field 6+ may have a problem. At the moment I wouldn't leave home without a couple of Mek Gunz.

Meganobz are good, better than they were in 8th. Barebone models are pretty cheap, and there's also some nice tricks with the kombi rokkit upgrade. Goffs and big krumpaz are quite killy, deathskulls gets some protection against MWs and obj sec.

One of the real losers in this codex is Big Ol' Ghaz IMHO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are lootas and burnas viable?
I know lootas got something of a nerf (why does a fire support unit have a dakka weapon?) but apparently burnas got improved?

Lootas have been improved. Now they're chaper, gained T5, lost penalty if they moved, fire guaranteed 2 shoots and if embarked in a trukk should easily get the full 3. Only downside is the presence of a mek every 5 dudes, but even with him the unit is now deadlier than in 8th. I wouldn't field them on foot though, now they're basically another trukk unit. For extra protection, chance to get better LOS and max out their shots.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Boys aren't the best choice in the book by a huge margin, but they are still an effective force multiplier tool and pressure unit. We talk about how easy it is to wipe boys and trukks off the table, but when there's so many targets of similar profiles bearing down on the opponent they start needing to make some decisions about target priority.

players start to win more than half their games at 71+ VP scored (including 10 for having a painted army), and /.../ win more than 80% of their games at 81+ VP scored

Beardedragon wrote:


Mek Gunz are not worth it unless you put them in lone squads, and if you do that, you wont be fielding any battlewagons for transport of MANZ or other vehicles like it. Much of ork backline shooting to hold our backline objectives and screen out comes from the heavy slot, so lone mek gunz for 45ppm will compete with things such as Kannon wagons, where they didnt before because you could have many Mek Gunz in a single slot. Sure running lone Mek Gunz is still great, but the moment you have 2 Mek Gunz in one squad, its no longer worth it as there is a very high chance your other mek gun will run off from morale (50%). I dont feel like having leadership 4 on a 45ppm is fair, thats all. But sure if you dont "need" the heavy slots for anything then theres no issue in putting the Mek gunz in lone squads. They will still do a good job in lone squads.

 Kneisll wrote:
i really dont know why you all think meganobz are getting only 1 A for the Killsaws.
The weapon clearly states: if it is equipped with 2 killsaws, it makes 1 extra attack for THIS WEAPON.
your model is equipped with 2 WEAPONS.
so if you have 1 Killsaw you get 0 extra attack
you have 2? fine you get 2 extra attacks. it is RAW and in my opinion also RAI with the point costs

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Kneisll wrote:
i really dont know why you all think meganobz are getting only 1 A for the Killsaws.
The weapon clearly states: if it is equipped with 2 killsaws, it makes 1 extra attack for THIS WEAPON.
your model is equipped with 2 WEAPONS.
so if you have 1 Killsaw you get 0 extra attack
you have 2? fine you get 2 extra attacks. it is RAW and in my opinion also RAI with the point costs

...huh. Yeah, you're actually right. The model is equipped with 2 kill saws, each one has the rule "if this model is equipped with 2 killsaws, make 1 additional attack with this weapon".

So if you have 2x kill saws, they act just like if the model had 2 choppas - 2 bonus attacks.

 koooaei wrote:
So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

Afrodactyl wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

Afrodactyl wrote:
Boyz still have a place in the army list, they just need to be used slightly differently is all. Snaggas are good, especially in a vehicle/monster meta. Shoota boys are garbage though, especially in comparison to the army's other choices.

Please elaborate on how you think they should be used now?
Good thing I haven't modelled my shoota boiz kits yet. They will probably end up as choppa boiz or as bodies for lootas+burnas

So I'm currently using three mobs of trukk boys, with 10 models apiece and the Nob has a Klaw. My list is very much weighted as an alpha strike type list, so I've tried to put as many early threats as possible on the board.

The boys race up the field and do one of a handful of things;
1. Get obliterated
2. Get ignored and do nothing
3. Kill something (something that's probably damaged by another unit)
4. Tag something and take it out of the game for a turn

Depending on the flow of the game, all of these are probably a bonus for me.
1. It means those attacks haven't been used against my kommandos, stormboys, buggies, etc, so they are free to cause chaos.
2. It means that they're still there next turn to keep some momentum going by attacking, taking or contesting an objective, etc.
3 and 4. I've finished off or tied up an enemy unit, so I'm starting to limit the damage I'm receiving on the following turns and can put pressure on objectives.

Boys aren't the best choice in the book by a huge margin, but they are still an effective force multiplier tool and pressure unit. We talk about how easy it is to wipe boys and trukks off the table, but when there's so many targets of similar profiles bearing down on the opponent they start needing to make some decisions about target priority.


Don't get me wrong, they aren't a horrendous unit nor an amazing one. But we've always done best when we pick an army type and stick with it, and grots don't mesh with how my list wants to close the gap quickly. Between my trukk boys, kommandos and stormboys I have a lot of fast moving infantry that can take objectives, beat heads, or hide and be action monkeys as the situation requires.

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

Nah been like this for ages.
It's not even overpowering. They are 45 pts per model a killa Kan is 40 Pts And has 4 attacks at flat 3 damage

 Jidmah wrote:
Found this Mathhammer stuff on mek guns on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/p0ehb9/ork_effectiveness_of_new_ork_mek_gunz/

Hilariously, bubblechukkas and KMK seem to be the best guns right now.

pepi55 wrote:

Afrodactyl wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

Afrodactyl wrote:
Boyz still have a place in the army list, they just need to be used slightly differently is all. Snaggas are good, especially in a vehicle/monster meta. Shoota boys are garbage though, especially in comparison to the army's other choices.

Please elaborate on how you think they should be used now?
Good thing I haven't modelled my shoota boiz kits yet. They will probably end up as choppa boiz or as bodies for lootas+burnas

So I'm currently using three mobs of trukk boys, with 10 models apiece and the Nob has a Klaw. My list is very much weighted as an alpha strike type list, so I've tried to put as many early threats as possible on the board.

The boys race up the field and do one of a handful of things;
1. Get obliterated
2. Get ignored and do nothing
3. Kill something (something that's probably damaged by another unit)
4. Tag something and take it out of the game for a turn

Depending on the flow of the game, all of these are probably a bonus for me.
1. It means those attacks haven't been used against my kommandos, stormboys, buggies, etc, so they are free to cause chaos.
2. It means that they're still there next turn to keep some momentum going by attacking, taking or contesting an objective, etc.
3 and 4. I've finished off or tied up an enemy unit, so I'm starting to limit the damage I'm receiving on the following turns and can put pressure on objectives.

Boys aren't the best choice in the book by a huge margin, but they are still an effective force multiplier tool and pressure unit. We talk about how easy it is to wipe boys and trukks off the table, but when there's so many targets of similar profiles bearing down on the opponent they start needing to make some decisions about target priority.


Don't get me wrong, they aren't a horrendous unit nor an amazing one. But we've always done best when we pick an army type and stick with it, and grots don't mesh with how my list wants to close the gap quickly. Between my trukk boys, kommandos and stormboys I have a lot of fast moving infantry that can take objectives, beat heads, or hide and be action monkeys as the situation requires.

Thanks for the insighr, this is actually very helpful information as I still dont have the experience to know what to do with each unit.
So to paraphrase and make sure I understood it right, Boyz are now supposed to threaten key objectives and draw fire away from more important units?

Now I want to know what those units should be. Are the killy units more important? Im thinking that boyz are important because they are more likely to score points because of obsec and the other units are there to make sure that the boyz keep those objectives by drawing focus away from them.

but I can see it working the other way if the units the boyz distract from are capable of destroying the opposing army and clearing the field so you can score uncontested.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

Nah been like this for ages.
It's not even overpowering. They are 45 pts per model a killa Kan is 40 Pts And has 4 attacks at flat 3 damage

but killa kanz dont get kulturs so its somewhat of a tradeoff?

Also, dont MANz and killa kanz fill different roles? I thought kanz are now the de-facto TP in and charge unit while MANz are more of a start on the board unit

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Found this Mathhammer stuff on mek guns on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/p0ehb9/ork_effectiveness_of_new_ork_mek_gunz/

Hilariously, bubblechukkas and KMK seem to be the best guns right now.

Kmk's look good all rounder.

I did have my doubts about the one shot tractor kannon even against flying vehicles with its d6+ 3 damage

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz
Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

Nah been like this for ages.
It's not even overpowering. They are 45 pts per model a killa Kan is 40 Pts And has 4 attacks at flat 3 damage

 Scactha wrote:

MANZ can take Big Krumpaz for +1 to hit with the Saws.

 kingbbobb wrote:

I was only comparing Pts and saying they aren't overpowering.

 Blackie wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

MANZ can take Big Krumpaz for +1 to hit with the Saws.

Also Goffs kultur, which kanz can't have. Goffs and Big Krumpaz have the same results.

tulun wrote:
Keep in mind the wording for a pair of saws RAW gives 2 attacks, not 1.

Which makes them more interesting as a combat hammer.

pepi55 wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

I was only comparing Pts and saying they aren't overpowering.

I was adding the kultur factor to your comparison, not refuting it.

Somehow it seems that invulns are expensive only when adding it to units but removing invuls costs only ~-5 pts.

 Blackie wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

MANZ can take Big Krumpaz for +1 to hit with the Saws.

Also Goffs kultur, which kanz can't have. Goffs and Big Krumpaz have the same results.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

tulun wrote:
Keep in mind the wording for a pair of saws RAW gives 2 attacks, not 1.

Which makes them more interesting as a combat hammer.

hmmmmmmmm...........

TeChnIcAlLy he's right, as you still have 2 killsaws and it does say "if this model is equippped wth 2 killsaws, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon "
Which would be 2 sources of "1 attack with this weapon"

THAT could be why theyre 45pts for some reason. I'm not to bent out of shape if thats the case.

course the "GW Hates Orks" in me just thinks "Nah thats a mistake they totally didnt intend that"

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

MANZ can take Big Krumpaz for +1 to hit with the Saws.

Also Goffs kultur, which kanz can't have. Goffs and Big Krumpaz have the same results.

Meganobs are core so they get +1to hit from the warboss aura. In general I would only go big krumpaz on manz if putting them on a teleporter. Don't want to lose goffs kultur

 Blackie wrote:
+2A for the pair of killsaw is totally unintentional. Otherwise also a single killsaw should have granted +1A. There's no other weapon that doesn't give extra attack but if you take two they both do.

One addtional attack for the pair is clearly RAI, and that's another mistake in this codex.

Kebabcito wrote:
Bubblechucka is so random doing mathhammer is pretty useless, since his whole profile changes (You cannot say the average height of 2 persons is 1,85 when you've got Michael Jordan and Leo Messi as samples, variation is so high the result doesn't give you any information).

 Blackie wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

MANZ can take Big Krumpaz for +1 to hit with the Saws.

Also Goffs kultur, which kanz can't have. Goffs and Big Krumpaz have the same results.

Meganobs are core so they get +1to hit from the warboss aura. In general I would only go big krumpaz on manz if putting them on a teleporter. Don't want to lose goffs kultur

Well, big krumpaz bonus stacks with the warboss aura. Meganobz have a native -1 to hit, so they can +1 to hit from two different sources, to get a cumulative and final +1 to hit, aka hitting on 2s.

 Blackie wrote:

Well, big krumpaz bonus stacks with the warboss aura. Meganobz have a native -1 to hit, so they can +1 to hit from two different sources, to get a cumulative and final +1 to hit, aka hitting on 2s.

 Jidmah wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
Bubblechucka is so random doing mathhammer is pretty useless, since his whole profile changes (You cannot say the average height of 2 persons is 1,85 when you've got Michael Jordan and Leo Messi as samples, variation is so high the result doesn't give you any information).

Averages are useless for bubblechukkas, not mathhammer in general. You can calculate the chances of each result happening and draw conclusions from there.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
+2A for the pair of killsaw is totally unintentional. Otherwise also a single killsaw should have granted +1A. There's no other weapon that doesn't give extra attack but if you take two they both do.

One addtional attack for the pair is clearly RAI, and that's another mistake in this codex.

The double killsaw profile is only available on MANZ afaik. and it inflates the cost enough that a comparison between a 43pt TH/SS termiantor with 3 flat 3 damage thunder hammer attacks and a 45pt double killsaw MAN with 5 D3 damage killsaw attacks seems fairly fair, at least to me considering the defensive edge the termie gets.

 Blackie wrote:
+2A for the pair of killsaw is totally unintentional. Otherwise also a single killsaw should have granted +1A. There's no other weapon that doesn't give extra attack but if you take two they both do.

One additional attack for the pair is clearly RAI, and that's another mistake in this codex.