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pepi55 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

Okay but who brings a naut to a 1000pts game? I thought 250+ pts for a unit is a bad investment in low point games. Never have been exactly clear on the exact amount though. if 300pts are okay for low point games I would actually much rather add Ghaz.

Depends on who youre talking to.
Most people that play smaller games are super casual, so yeah they wouldnt bother.
Then theres some that do it because they think "its more balanced" and bring said big unit, which runs rampant if there wasnt a counter for it. And at 1k points its very likely that isnt a proper counter for it. Or if there was, it was a single unit that could threaten it so it got focus fired fast.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed they went the Monolith route for our Gork/Morkanauts, considering I have both AND the stompa. GW really brought the nerfhammer to SHV this edition, with the prohibitive CP cost, I really don't think it was necessary to also gut the subfaction traits since it's not like most of them are factored or overly strong on SHV anyways. I can't imagine the amount of bespoke rules they're going to have to introduce to make Knights competitive again.

Yeah a lot of them are rather strong on supers for sure but the thing is all the supers (except the kiltank for some reason) are total garbage for their cost.
Killtank is unusually durable for its cost, and its offensive power isnt oppressive at the same time so it isnt broken-feeling.
Mork/Gork feel like a waste of time, same goes for the Monolith. I bought into Necrons with their last codex and i had every intention of buying a monolith until the moment i heard it was LoW. Its simply not good enough w/o army-traits.
GW doesnt seem to price things with the knowledge of what outside-of-datasheet rules affect it, since those points seem about right IF they had army-traits too compared to the rest of the codex.

Also the game is very anti-super-big-thing right now anyway, and such army-traits are never super duper resiliency type things anyway.

 R1ncewind wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer that a dread waaagh style army still isn't quite viable with the current codex we got. I have a bad feeling they're going to try and make a regiment of renown in the next charadon book that basically lets us do that. I find that Deffskullz may one of the more optimal klanz for deffskullz since you can give obsec to the stormboyz/kommandos you need for secondaries/primaries.

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks 2021) [28 PL, 6CP, 470pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Warboss [5 PL, 105pts]: Attack Squig, Fasta Than Yooz, Kombi-skorcha, Power Klaw, Rezmekka's Redder Paint, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Deff Dreads [7 PL, 100pts]: Stompamatic Pistons
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw

Deff Dreads [6 PL, 85pts]: Big Krumpaz
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Orks 2021) [30 PL, -2CP, 530pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 3. Da Jump, 6. Jabbin' Fingerz

+ Troops +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

+ Elites +

Kommandos [4 PL, 55pts]: Sneaky Gitz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 4x Kommando: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Kommandos [4 PL, 55pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 4x Kommando: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 4x Stormboy: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 4x Stormboy: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Killa Kans [7 PL, 150pts]
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Kan Klaw, Rokkit Launcha
. Killa Kan: Kan Klaw, Rokkit Launcha

Something like this for 1000 pts? As much as I would love playing such a list at 500pts, walkers are simply too expensive :(

Please consider not having all the rules in your list. We can assume people here know them, it will make the list more readable and people more likely to respond

Fair point. I do straight up copy/paste the list from battlescribe cuz its easy but the data isnt even accurate in battlescribe. I updated it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

pepi55 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dreadwaaagh died when the Nauts became LoW.

Lost a valuable KFF source (which also got nerfed anyway)
Lost the Big Distraction
Lost the Heavy Hitter to 1shot any other big thing, since Dreads hit hard but nowhere near as hard.

Like ive said several times i'd be fine with LoW rules as they are if they freakin' got Kultures (and now Kustom Jobs). i'm not against being basically limited to 1 unless you wanna sink a ton of CP for additional aux slots, or if youre nutty enough to bring 3 of them for 6cp.
I dont get why they are forcing so much stuff in the LoW slot, and then making LoW's unplayably bad to use. I havnt even seen a Knight in eons, as even Knights' base datasheets are lacking w/o house rules.

Okay but who brings a naut to a 1000pts game? I thought 250+ pts for a unit is a bad investment in low point games. Never have been exactly clear on the exact amount though. if 300pts are okay for low point games I would actually much rather add Ghaz.

Depends on who youre talking to.
Most people that play smaller games are super casual, so yeah they wouldnt bother.
Then theres some that do it because they think "its more balanced" and bring said big unit, which runs rampant if there wasnt a counter for it. And at 1k points its very likely that isnt a proper counter for it. Or if there was, it was a single unit that could threaten it so it got focus fired fast.

Wouldn't you lose on points though? In my newbie experience, the one unit will be overwhelmed by obsec units and your opponent spreading out over the entire board while you fall behind in points.

I think at that point that it is accepted that the Naut in HS auxiliary detachtment can still get kustom job or be specialist.
They just can't get kultur benefit. It's a loss but not game breaking honestly

I picked up a pack of Orruk Brutes today and I'm trying to decide what to convert them into. I've already got 6 MANZ, do I need more than that? Otherwise I'm thinking some big choppa nobz would be in order.

Manz seem better than bigchoppa nobz.
They got their price reduced, their movement increased and, most importantly, can also be trukkboyz which opens up a lot of possibilities. I think that even kombirokkit manz can be ok as trukkboyz.

 koooaei wrote:
Manz seem better than bigchoppa nobz.
They got their price reduced, their movement increased and, most importantly, can also be trukkboyz which opens up a lot of possibilities. I think that even kombirokkit manz can be ok as trukkboyz.

Agreed. They also still have the strat that gives them +1D in CC, which gives them some flexibility against the whole gamut of -1D abilities floating around these days. Basic nobz are in a weird spot right now since they don't really fill a niche that other units don't do better atm.

Nobz are inferior in durability to MANz, but you get 1 free S5 AP-1 attack per model with an offhand choppa and a big choppa for chicken scratch. Consequently they are superior point for point in raw damage output. You could get 5 of them for the same cost as 3 MANz. 5 BC and 5 choppa attacks is simply more killy than 3 klaws.

The problem is their base points which appear to be deliberately indexed to the cost of an ork boy (e.g. 14 to 17 to 18 points, seemingly right in line with ork boy increases).

This cost inflation hasn't carried over to warbikers or squighog riders which do more than any unit point for point.

They do also fill half a transport slot compared to Meganobz.

It's just absurd that it costs 21 PPM for each BC nob without a transport when it costs 25 PPM for a warbiker with 10 shots and 3 wounds, or 25 points for a squighog rider with 5 2D attacks and 3 wounds. By the time you add the transport they're more expensive and half as killy as squighog riders.

MANz are durable and at least they're infantry for climbing ruins, but I don't really see them as that exciting or that capable. I think both options are underwhelming TBH.

Even the +1 damage strategem costs 2 CP. And you can only carry 6 at the most in a transport. That would be 280 points in a Trukk which would stick out like a sore thumb.

At least you could fit a nobz squad in a transport and still have room for a unit of boyz and a character. I just think once you start building lists for any kind of close combat infantry in transports, the points start adding up rapidly to the point where I add up wounds and attacks and it looks terrible in comparison to 30 boyz or a T rex, or a unit of squig hogs. And as far as the transport, Kill Rigs and Hunta Rigs are just flat better than any wagon variant, and they can't take either infantry unit.

That's why I think Beast Snaggas work better for close combat lists. I'd rather have a Kill Rig/Hunta Rig with some Snaggas for minimum troops, then squigs.

If I didn't vastly prefer the nobz model to the squigs and snaggas, that is. I can't bring myself to buy those models.

Yeah I've certainly heard about the power of squighogs. I'm trying to work mostly with what I have though. You've made it tricky to decide. I guess it comes down to whether I actually need more than the six MANZ I already have.

How about warbikers? How are they stacking up? 10 S5 shots sounds sounds good on paper. Are they T6 now? That would be pretty cool.

 OOTN wrote:
Yeah I've certainly heard about the power of squighogs. I'm trying to work mostly with what I have though. You've made it tricky to decide. I guess it comes down to whether I actually need more than the six MANZ I already have.

How about warbikers? How are they stacking up? 10 S5 shots sounds sounds good on paper. Are they T6 now? That would be pretty cool.

Warbikes are T5 but they are 3 wounds now. I think small units of them are great with a variety of klan kulturs.

 OOTN wrote:
Yeah I've certainly heard about the power of squighogs. I'm trying to work mostly with what I have though. You've made it tricky to decide. I guess it comes down to whether I actually need more than the six MANZ I already have.

How about warbikers? How are they stacking up? 10 S5 shots sounds sounds good on paper. Are they T6 now? That would be pretty cool.

Warbikers are a good unit. They do need speed waagh but also benefit from mellee waagh to some extent, so if you're running freebooters or bad moons + ghaz for a versatile all-rounded list, they'll truly shine on a flank without enemy heavy mellee threats.

Units of 3-5 that can operate on their own or a full stack of 9 that you plan on hiding 1st turn and than dumping 2 cp for Moar Dakka. And maybe even tellyporting them with a wierdboy.

If you're going for bad moons, you can save cp for more dakka if you're not planning to hide them and get some odd app boosts. They're dealing slightly more damage than freebooters with +1 to hit with an extra hits on 6s strat due to extra ap on 6s. But bad moons do not reach the same levels of damage output as freebootas in larger games.

Showin' Off is also a very good buff to slap on Bad Moons bikers, especially for large units.

 Blackie wrote:
Showin' Off is also a very good buff to slap on Bad Moons bikers, especially for large units.

Reckon it'd be worth stacking showing off, more dakka and the speedwaagh on a big unit of bikes? Though i'm a bit too much of an ork to do the math it does feel like a wonderful amount of decent dakka to throw at an opponant.

cody.d. wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Showin' Off is also a very good buff to slap on Bad Moons bikers, especially for large units.

Reckon it'd be worth stacking showing off, more dakka and the speedwaagh on a big unit of bikes? Though i'm a bit too much of an ork to do the math it does feel like a wonderful amount of decent dakka to throw at an opponant.

I prefer bringing 2x5 units of bikes instead of a single unit of 9, never been a fan of relying on stacking multiple buffs into one unit. But yeah, 9 bikes with more dakka, showin off and speedwaaagh bonus are super powerful for their cost, which is just 235 (assuming there's also a pk in there) and 3 CPs.

Showin off for 1 CP is a nice buff even for 5 bikes. During the speedwaaagh turns it's 10 additional S5 AP-1 or AP-2 hits from a 135 points unit if it's in dakka range.

pepi55 wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

You need to reread that strat again. Its Beastsnagga Infantry, Cavalry AND Monster, not just Monster.

I think he means Beastsnagga*(infantry + cavalry + monster) instead of (Beastsnagga*infantry) + cavalry + monster
using math terms cause language is confusing like that sometimes especially if its not your main language.

Anyway, if beastsnagga applies to each of infantry, cavalry and monster, it implies a beastsnagga monster. What I dont understand is that a monster in a beastsnagga detachment is technically a beastsnagga monster right?

Its more likely the Rigs were originally monster keyworded and they got changed last minute like what happened with Kataphrons being bikers but having a rule that states they ignore heavy penalties.... but are bikers.

I doubt that Squiggoths become beastsnagga keyworded and I bet the strat will get changed to beast snagga vehicle (or the Rigs go to monster which they should be).

Freebooters aura count as showin off for every unit :(

Played today against tournament winner player Drukhari.

My list was Outrider Bad Moons with defkilla/buggies/flyers and Goffs with squigs and stuff.

I lost but destroyed tons of his models, I would have never thought I could face him at this level. He's always tabling everyone turn 2 or 3 and I fkd up all his raiders and destroyed lot of his models.

The problem was, I could only focus in defending myself and killing while he was just so relaxed doing secondaries and destroying all my screens.

- The wombo combo of Blastajet destroying Raiders and Dakkajet destroying the trops disembarked is nice.
- Moto need protection, they are our highest source of damage and they die very quickly against incubi.
- .KillRig IS EXTREMLY GOOD against drukhari, he CANNOT focus him with Dark Lances because he NEED to focus the buggies in order to reduce your damage, so your KillRig is free stomping the middle of the table all his troops. If he prefers to stay back, objective is yours.
- Warboss on squiggosaur has the damage, but his highest hype is high tankyness. I just didn't care if I had to fight first or fight last, I knew I would survive against any damage (Drazhar, Succubus, Incubi, Wyches) and then just stomp then with no mercy.
- -1 to hit in Defkilla is OK to protect buggies, deffkoptas an stuff. Still don't expect a lot of tankyness against F8.
- Drukhari need nerfs. Not on his mechanisms, but in his points. No way he had a lot of models after all that annihilation I did in 2 turns... He won because he was still able to do all the missions with 5% of his army...

Kebabcito wrote:
Freebooters aura count as showin off for every unit :(

Played today against tournament winner player Drukhari.

My list was Outrider Bad Moons with defkilla/buggies/flyers and Goffs with squigs and stuff.

I lost but destroyed tons of his models, I would have never thought I could face him at this level. He's always tabling everyone turn 2 or 3 and I fkd up all his raiders and destroyed lot of his models.

The problem was, I could only focus in defending myself and killing while he was just so relaxed doing secondaries and destroying all my screens.

- The wombo combo of Blastajet destroying Raiders and Dakkajet destroying the trops disembarked is nice.
- Moto need protection, they are our highest source of damage and they die very quickly against incubi.
- .KillRig IS EXTREMLY GOOD against drukhari, he CANNOT focus him with Dark Lances because he NEED to focus the buggies in order to reduce your damage, so your KillRig is free stomping the middle of the table all his troops. If he prefers to stay back, objective is yours.
- Warboss on squiggosaur has the damage, but his highest hype is high tankyness. I just didn't care if I had to fight first or fight last, I knew I would survive against any damage (Drazhar, Succubus, Incubi, Wyches) and then just stomp then with no mercy.
- -1 to hit in Defkilla is OK to protect buggies, deffkoptas an stuff. Still don't expect a lot of tankyness against F8.
- Drukhari need nerfs. Not on his mechanisms, but in his points. No way he had a lot of models after all that annihilation I did in 2 turns... He won because he was still able to do all the missions with 5% of his army...

Yeah....Admech and Drukhari are broken mainly due to their strong baseline ruleset AND their ability to trade up so efficiently. Not much we can do there, we are definitely cost efficient with buggies but not to the extent those two factions are.

Also, given that we mentioned Dread WAAAGH! not currently being super optimal, I was tempted to make it work semi-competitively anyways, this is what I have so far. Any thoughts? We're not really able to make the most of the Deffskullz strat or relic anyways, so I opted to make the Evil Sunz Wartrike my warlord for the relic.



Deathskulls also look like they're positioned well against the two new armies of GK and TS being able to do a fair bit of mortal wound spam.

 koooaei wrote:
Manz seem better than bigchoppa nobz.
They got their price reduced, their movement increased and, most importantly, can also be trukkboyz which opens up a lot of possibilities. I think that even kombirokkit manz can be ok as trukkboyz.

in my humble opinion no one should be taking big choppa nobs anymore- dual chopas all the way.
If strength is a problem make them goffs and have s6 on the charge with 5x5=25 attacks per five man squad hitting on 3's with exploding 6's wounding (eldar,tau,etc) on 2's at 18ppm

on average a squad will score 21 hits and against t3 17 wounds.

will this work against space marines - not really, big choppas at 21 ppm would be better but then they approach the cost of a squig rider 25ppm which offer much better value at that price.
so for me dual choppas or nothing

I agree that Meganobz are better but Goffs big choppas Nobz strike at S8 on the charge though, which sounds nice.

Played a game today with a squad of 9 bikers. Have to admit that's a really nice way to spend 230 points. With speedwaagh and showin off they do an impressive amount of damage with that 108 shots. Just wish they got to shoot more than once, but that's ork life for you.

I was disappointed with the performance of my shoota boyz. I'm really not sure they're worth taking anymore, which is a shame since I've got so many of them. The loss of assault is really painful and I definitely felt it every movement phase. Choppa's also being AP1 now just makes it even more difficult to justify shootas. The additional shot on shootas seems great but in practice I was rarely within half range because I was so slow, and that's with the Bad Moonz range increase.

 OOTN wrote:
Played a game today with a squad of 9 bikers. Have to admit that's a really nice way to spend 230 points. With speedwaagh and showin off they do an impressive amount of damage with that 108 shots. Just wish they got to shoot more than once, but that's ork life for you.

I was disappointed with the performance of my shoota boyz. I'm really not sure they're worth taking anymore, which is a shame since I've got so many of them. The loss of assault is really painful and I definitely felt it every movement phase. Choppa's also being AP1 now just makes it even more difficult to justify shootas. The additional shot on shootas seems great but in practice I was rarely within half range because I was so slow, and that's with the Bad Moonz range increase.

I honestly think the only role shoota boys have now is to sit on a home plate objective and perform actions. And they're outclassed by basically everything else in the book.

If you were to take a limousine for Ghaz, as unoptimal as he might be, would you put a Deffrolla on it? I’m trying to decide wether it would a) underline the necessity to focus it down (though not necessarily bad for the rest of the army) or b) make it a decent late game charger after Ghaz leaves, provided that the opponent decided to focus on trukks and buggies instead. It could be wasted points if the Wagon never sees T2, but could also make an already 150+ point unit have another role than just shielding Ghaz and blocking move/LOS.

Depends solely on how likely it will turn into a crater. I would try it a few times without (because that's the safe option), and if you find it staying around a lot, add the deff rolla.

A wagon without rolla still has a lot of utility as a large durable brick that can block movement, LoS and tie down units that have no good way of destroying it.

Had my first 2 1k games today. As my buggies are not ready yet, took what I all ready have.

Deffskullz
Bikerboss (killaklaw, 4++)
MA Mek (dss, tellyporta, opportunist)
10 boyz (bc)
2x11 grots
3x1 kmk
5 meganobz (trukkboyz)
Blastajet (tellyportas)
Trukk (tires)

1st game was vs a mellee knight and 3 smaller ones with autocannons.
Got 1st turn but wiffed shooting - only degraded 1 small knight and did a couple wounds here and there. Than he ran across the board, killed screening boyz, piled in to 2 kmk. They can't fall back now, which made their life a turn shorter. He killed a boss castle I thought t6 and 4++ would be enough to tank one degroded knight but he rolled good, I failed 3 4++ with a reroll...
Than I finally killed one small knight and degraded 2 more. He wrecked a trukk, all the kmk and all the meganobz. Next turn the plane finished the last 2 small knights off and everything remaining just scored.
Ended up with like 45-33 in ork's favor. Didn:'t even call waagh.

2d game was vs fists:
Chaplain
Phobos librarian
Some primaris with infiltrate
Some regular primaris
3 eradicators
Venerable dread with Laz Cannon
Some fat dread with 13 wounds and a super plazma cannon

The game started with him choosing board side, complaining about stuff and placing his minis reeeally long - for like 30 extra minutes taken away from the game.
He got 1st turn which ended up with 1/3 of the ork army dead and a trukk slowed down. The plane got degroded. In return, trukknobz charged some primaris, plane shot really good but he passed 3 5+ saves from tellyporta and I rolled a 2 on a smasha which ended up as 1 damage on a dread but it killed 2 eradicators with it's 2d tellyport. He also managed to get all the saves in the world against bss and a tellyporta. However, boss and manz killed a librarian and primaris guyz on the flank, also hiding from the rest of his army behind a ruin.
Next turn he finished off a plane and kmk, charged manz, killed 3 as I didn't roll a single 5+. But in return, 2 manz used wrekkaz and plinked 7 wounds off a dread. Orks finished off a venerable dread and mek rolled hilarious 2 hits out of 14 4+ shots with a re-roll which ended up as 2 damage to a chaplain. Boss finished off a venerable dread.
Next turn he shot down boyz to a single wound on a nob, meganobz to a single wound and scored some more. Than boss called mellee WAAAAGH and together with mek wrecked remaining dread and chaplain with shooting and mellee - finally the rolls were hot.
He had 1 eradicator and a couple primaris, I had a trukk, boss, mek, some scoring infantry across the board and I'm sure I'd finish him off next turn but the tourney watch showed it was a dice down and he scored a minor victory. But I'm certain I'd win and it was my mistake for allowing him to take too long before game in a strict time limit environment.

Overall:

Ramshackle didn't do much in this matchups. It did force little knights to suffer mw for getting 1 of their guns to s8. Was pretty useless vs Marines tho.

Mellee waagh is not something to write home about. At list not in a list with both mellee and shooting. I didn't get to really use it. And by the 2d turn it was not needed. Only for the +1 attack that didn't play a huge role.

Biker boss with a killaklaw - still good even w/o codex buffs. It's uncertain how he works with waagh but I think you just choose which waagh to call once per game ATM.

Mek with dead shiny shoota and tellyporta - pretty good with 4+ bs. I think he'll really shine in a freeboota list. My rolls were way below average this games but I feel he has potential. He was even more effective than a plane cause he simply remained in a trukk, rolled around and dropped podshots. Thinking about making 1 mek kff with a kybork body and a 2d mek shooty one with dss and tellyporta in a trukk with min manz. Opportunist was not very useful this games. Got a single cp refund and didn't need to shoot characters but it might be very good in some matchups.

Blastajet - pretty good if your opponent ain't rolling his saves like crazy. Will be great in speed waagh with ap3 tellyportas and extra shootas - especially as freeboota. I think I got to buy 1.nit sure about 2, they're quite pricey point-wise and are fragile. Afraid of going 2d even more than any other ork unit in the list.

MANz - I thought they'd be good as trukkboyz but they simply don't kill anything with a -1 damage without popping a 2cp strat - and most opponents will run plenty. However, I still think a min squad with kombi-rokkitz can be ok. Not great like buggies but playable. I think kombi-rokkits are a way to go as it will allow them to deal some damage while standing on a midfield point in a trukk if there are no good targets for a charge.

Trukk with squig hide tires - it's not great but it does what it's supposed to do. I think the +5 pts is not justified as most opponents will ignore it's ramshackle anyway. I had a plan for tires but it was irrelevant in the game vs knights and had a minor impact on a 2d game.

Boyz - useless. Just leave them waiting on a shelf for 10th edition. I thought trumkboyz would be passable but the game has changed in a way you don't really need a unit like trukkboyz. Their damage and durability is just too mediocre for what you pay for. Even manz are more useful as they can at least sit in cover for 1+ and not die to a bunch of bolter intercessors. And it's more of s5+ than s4 nowadayz. Just take grots, really.

Grots - they pay premium for being taken too often in previous editions but they're still a go-to troop unit. I took 11 for a green tide but ended up with battlefield supremacy and octarius anywayz. Simply buffed the opponent's blasts. But grots are the units that are gona win you games. They score, they are relatively cheap, they score, they are small and hideable, they score...

Mek guns - I ran solo kmk. They were fire magnets. Enemies are afraid of their profile but they didn't do anything other than score and die for me. Yeah, I rolled poorly. But they're ok as solo units for 45 to simply stand on a point, shoot, eat some antitanj and die.

I think that's it. We do need our buggies and speed waagh to play competitively.

I don't quite understand the Kommandos entry; there's a huge list of wargear options, and the condition for each is that the squad must have ten models.
So if I have a ten model squad of kommandos, can I give each one of them a weapon from that list, provided I don't pick an option twice?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't quite understand the Kommandos entry; there's a huge list of wargear options, and the condition for each is that the squad must have ten models.
So if I have a ten model squad of kommandos, can I give each one of them a weapon from that list, provided I don't pick an option twice?

Basically yes. It's going to be much easier to understand when we will be able to buy the new Kommando squad. Basically, you have 4 regular guys, 1 nob and 5 special weapon guys but only one special weapon of each type in the box and since you can only equip a single unit with what's available in a single box of that single unit, you can only have one special weapon of each type per 10 kommandos. Did I help clear that up?

epronovost wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't quite understand the Kommandos entry; there's a huge list of wargear options, and the condition for each is that the squad must have ten models.
So if I have a ten model squad of kommandos, can I give each one of them a weapon from that list, provided I don't pick an option twice?

Basically yes. It's going to be much easier to understand when we will be able to buy the new Kommando squad. Basically, you have 4 regular guys, 1 nob and 5 special weapon guys but only one special weapon of each type in the box and since you can only equip a single unit with what's available in a single box of that single unit, you can only have one special weapon of each type per 10 kommandos. Did I help clear that up?

Sort of. Makes sense I guess.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

I honestly think the only role shoota boys have now is to sit on a home plate objective and perform actions. And they're outclassed by basically everything else in the book.

I'm going to go a step further and say that there is no reason to leave shoota boyz at home sitting on objectives and performing actions because its likely better to have AP-1 Choppas on standby for that random assault that seems to happen when others try to cap an objective.

Think about it this way, 10 shoota boyz average 6.66 hits a turn Against T4 thats 3.33 wounds. Against a Marine 3+ save that is 1.11 dmg, so it would take you 2 full turns to kill 1 Marine. And with the relative short range of the weapon, its not a guarantee you will have range to anything anyway, and if the answer is "well take a big shoota"...at 19+ range that big shoota averages 1 hit and 0.22dmg vs a Marine.

To be honest, boyz are so underwhelming in any role they try to achieve, it's better not take them at all. If you're dead set on running at least some, better take choppas. At least they can hide behind blos and try to act as a charge deterrant.

Maybe trukkboyz could be used cause you might need 3 infantry slots and you want your troops to be able to do at least anything other than score...

But it's a hard task to find a role for any type of boyz that is not better filled by either grots, kommandoez or meganobz.

All in all, there seem to be no benefits in running boyz. Their durability us bad, their mellee damage is underwhelming, the only thing they can do better than grots and meganobz is charge something that's a min troop squad that is still too numerous for manz to chew through in one go and that they can't shoot at with their kombishootas effectively cause of Los or 2+ armor in cover. Or try to surround a poorly armored transport to get on a point and not be shot at but they generally lack speed for it. Such units are not all that common outside of enemy deployment zone for at least a couple turns. And you're paying a hedty price for this unit.


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10 boyz are a buggy.

Just stick to grots and get half a buggy.