We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Nora**

I think that a Wiedboy with Da Jump is a good support for a larger unit of Bad Moons Bikers since it allows them to shoot and possible charge, despite being stuck in CC at the start of the turn.

For the Speedwaaagh! Warboss, would you consider the Wartrike or the Warboss on Bike (as ruled today) to be the better choice?
The profiles are similar, maybe one more in (T) is trumps one ore in (W) in favor for the bike but the lack of invo-save on the bike makes it (for me) mandatory to ether use the warlord trait or the relic to get it. For the Wartrike you might be content with the 5++. Ramshackle is of curse also very nice. I think the Snagga Klaw is better than the regular Power Claw but the relic claw is solid option that the the Wartrike does not have.
However the biggest difference for me, between the two is the base size. For this reason I think the Warboss on Bike is the better.
Happy to here your comments on this!

**Afrodactyl**

SemperMortis wrote:
Afrodactyl wrote:

I honestly think the only role shoota boys have now is to sit on a home plate objective and perform actions. And they're outclassed by basically everything else in the book.

I'm going to go a step further and say that there is no reason to leave shoota boyz at home sitting on objectives and performing actions because its likely better to have AP-1 Choppas on standby for that random assault that seems to happen when others try to cap an objective.

Think about it this way, 10 shoota boyz average 6.66 hits a turn Against T4 thats 3.33 wounds. Against a Marine 3+ save that is 1.11 dmg, so it would take you 2 full turns to kill 1 Marine. And with the relative short range of the weapon, its not a guarantee you will have range to anything anyway, and if the answer is "well take a big shoota"...at 19+ range that big shoota averages 1 hit and 0.22dmg vs a Marine.

I didn't explain properly. I completely agree with everything you said, along with Koooaei. I meant that sitting at home plate is the only thing they really have going for them, and even then everything else does it better than they do for a variety of reasons, so there's never a reason to take them other than really liking shoota boys.

Or maybe you're strictly WYSIWYG and ran out of choppas or something.

**Blackie**

Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

**Afrodactyl**

Nora wrote:
I think that a Wiedboy with Da Jump is a good support for a larger unit of Bad Moons Bikers since it allows them to shoot and possible charge, despite being stuck in CC at the start of the turn.

For the Speedwaaagh! Warboss, would you consider the Wartrike or the Warboss on Bike (as ruled today) to be the better choice?
The profiles are similar, maybe one more in (T) is trumps one ore in (W) in favor for the bike but the lack of invo-save on the bike makes it (for me) mandatory to ether use the warlord trait or the relic to get it. For the Wartrike you might be content with the 5++. Ramshackle is of curse also very nice. I think the Snagga Klaw is better than the regular Power Claw but the relic claw is solid option that the the Wartrike does not have.
However the biggest difference for me, between the two is the base size. For this reason I think the Warboss on Bike is the better.
Happy to here your comments on this!

Has there been an errata/faq/update for the FW stuff? If so, could you post a link please?

**koooaei**

Trike does some shooting, it's somewhat tougher, a bit faster and it's a source of untargetable -1 to hit for all your speedfreaks. It has it's fair share of advantages.

**CthuluIsSpy**

koooaei wrote:
To be honest, boyz are so underwhelming in any role they try to achieve, it's better not take them at all. If you're dead set on running at least some, better take choppas. At least they can hide behind blos and try to act as a charge deterrant.

Maybe trukkboyz could be used cause you might need 3 infantry slots and you want your troops to be able to do at least anything other than score...

But it's a hard task to find a role for any type of boyz that is not better filled by either grots, kommandoez or meganobz.

All in all, there seem to be no benefits in running boyz. Their durability us bad, their mellee damage is underwhelming, the only thing they can do better than grots and meganobz is charge something that's a min troop squad that is still too numerous for manz to chew through in one go and that they can't shoot at with their kombishootas effectively cause of Los or 2+ armor in cover. Or try to surround a poorly armored transport to get on a point and not be shot at but they generally lack speed for it. Such units are not all that common outside of enemy deployment zone for at least a couple turns. And you're paying a hedty price for this unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
10 boyz are a buggy.

Just stick to grots and get half a buggy.

There goes my collection then. I have mostly boyz :/
I only have something like 10 grots and a runtherd.

**Blackie**

koooaei wrote:
Trike does some shooting, it's somewhat tougher, a bit faster and it's a source of untargetable -1 to hit for all your speedfreaks. It has it's fair share of advantages.

Shooting I don't know, biker boss is still a bike and twin dakkaguns are far superior than 3 twin boomstikks. Killa jet is good but has even shorter range than dakkaguns and model's still only BS5+ if he uses the melta profile. If he uses the flamer profile in the speedwaaagh turn there's no significant difference between a bike and the trike, if he uses the melta profile odds that he'll get worse results than a bike are quite high.

**koooaei**

Squads of 10 boyz are weak but not unplayable. You can still have some bad units in your army and won games. It's not that boyz pay extra pts for absolutely nothing, they are a bit tougher than grots for anti-infantry weaponry, they have fewer ld issues, are infinitely choppier.
The problem is that the benefits are not worth it ATM. I hope boyz are eventually getting buffed cause I also have a shelf-tide.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackie wrote:
koooaei wrote:
Trike does some shooting, it's somewhat tougher, a bit faster and it's a source of untargetable -1 to hit for all your speedfreaks. It has it's fair share of advantages.

Shooting I don't know, biker boss is still a bike and twin dakkaguns are far superior than 3 twin boomstikks. Killa jet is good but has very short range and model's still only BS5+ if he uses the melta profile.

Well, it's also able to chop stuff with a snagga klaw. It's nediocre but it's not like there's no mellee at all. Sure, it can't compare with a killa klaw but there are other advantages listed above. I think, they compare well atm.

Let's see what happens to a biker boss later on. It might get squattes yet again.

**Psychocouac**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

There goes my collection then. I have mostly boyz :/
I only have something like 10 grots and a runtherd.

Same. *Cry in 150 boyz and 10 grots*

**epronovost**

Psychocouac wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

There goes my collection then. I have mostly boyz :/
I only have something like 10 grots and a runtherd.

Same. *Cry in 150 boyz and 10 grots*

You aren't so bad off I got 240 boyz (half of witch are shoota boyz) and 40 grots. I love infantry and orks is basically the only army (with Dark Eldars) whose vehicles aesthetic really pleases me.

On another note though. What are our options for dealing with anti-tank. We are spoiled for choice to deal with enemy infantry of all type, but I always struggle with proper anti-tank choices.

**Blackie**

koooaei wrote:

Let's see what happens to a biker boss later on. It might get squattes yet again.

Probably. Good thing they basically cost the same points, only 5 points of difference between them. It makes easy to switch to the codex speedboss is FW one gets squatted/nerfed.

**Grimskul**

koooaei wrote:
To be honest, boyz are so underwhelming in any role they try to achieve, it's better not take them at all. If you're dead set on running at least some, better take choppas. At least they can hide behind blos and try to act as a charge deterrant.

Maybe trukkboyz could be used cause you might need 3 infantry slots and you want your troops to be able to do at least anything other than score...

But it's a hard task to find a role for any type of boyz that is not better filled by either grots, kommandoez or meganobz.

All in all, there seem to be no benefits in running boyz. Their durability us bad, their mellee damage is underwhelming, the only thing they can do better than grots and meganobz is charge something that's a min troop squad that is still too numerous for manz to chew through in one go and that they can't shoot at with their kombishootas effectively cause of Los or 2+ armor in cover. Or try to surround a poorly armored transport to get on a point and not be shot at but they generally lack speed for it. Such units are not all that common outside of enemy deployment zone for at least a couple turns. And you're paying a hedty price for this unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
10 boyz are a buggy.

Just stick to grots and get half a buggy.

Are trukk boyz that bad, even against other armies that aren't the top level builds (assuming Admech, DA and Drukhari here)? I feel like the speed should give them some utility, even if damage wise they're not outstanding.

Shoota boyz are definitely trash though. Should have made them Dakka 4/3, with 24" range if they wanted it to be viable next to choppa boyz.

It just boggles my mind that this might be one of the few editions where "boyz before toyz" is no longer a thing for us this time around.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Don't you mean 4/3? The first number is the one you use at close range. 3/4 would be 3 shots at half and 4 shots past that.

**Grimskul**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Don't you mean 4/3? The first number is the one you use at close range. 3/4 would be 3 shots at half and 4 shots past that.

Ah, my mistake, yup, 4/3. Still not used to that bizarre "not-rapid fire" format they used for it. That or just add the caveat that you can advance and shoot dakka weapons with a -1 penalty. Evil Sunz would be able to use their trait way more after that.

**gungo**

Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

**CthuluIsSpy**

gungo wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

We have biker bosses? Didn't those go into the legacy oubliette or whatever its called?

**Dendarien**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
gungo wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

We have biker bosses? Didn't those go into the legacy oubliette or whatever its called?

He's a forge world model, but he did not get sent to legends.

**Jidmah**

gungo wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

Looking at the changes that other armies got... that's just army wide rules and keyword fixes and even those aren't particularly thorough.

So the most likely case is that he will get either warboss or speedboss removed and nothing else, I'm fairly sure that we will not be seeing a new datasheet.

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Junkboss (4++) mandatory on a biker boss. With Killa Klaw I can't see how a wartrike can be a better option. Maybe only if someone wants to rely on the triple source of MWs on the charge, but it's still a gamble and costs additional points and CPs.

Depends on the new biker boss datasheet..
Does he get the warboss 5++ invul
Does he get the warboss +1 hit in melee aura
Does he get the warbikers -1 to hit smoke screen
Does he keep warboss keyword and speedboss keyword?
He potentially can be a lot stronger and/or more expensive then a wartrike.

Looking at the changes that other armies got... that's just army wide rules and keyword fixes and even those aren't particularly thorough.

So the most likely case is that he will get either warboss or speedboss removed and nothing else, I'm fairly sure that we will not be seeing a new datasheet.

Yeah, they're pretty bad when it comes to streamlining FW stuff with new codices. The WB on Bike and Nob Bikers are unfortunately likely to be ignored and languished in the outdated rules corner until 10th ed comes around. I'd be more interested to see if they'll give the Kustom Stompa a price cut like the regular stompa did.

**cody.d.**

Though in all likleyhood that also means that the stompas lifta droppas may get a change. Since they were buffed smashagunz for all intense and purposes. Though, if they keep their statlines and get a decrease I don think a kustom stompa becomes rather enticing.

**Kebabcito**

Warboss in bike is good candidate for Killa Klaw, as his speed and screen by bikes can avoid damage.

Making him tanky is useless, he will die if he has to die.

**koooaei**

Kebabcito wrote:
Warboss in bike is good candidate for Killa Klaw, as his speed and screen by bikes can avoid damage.

Making him tanky is useless, he will die if he has to die.

It's nice to be able not to die vs an odd melta shot.

**Kebabcito**

koooaei wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
Warboss in bike is good candidate for Killa Klaw, as his speed and screen by bikes can avoid damage.

Making him tanky is useless, he will die if he has to die.

It's nice to be able not to die vs an odd melta shot.

Won't be 1, so no difference.

**Jidmah**

cody.d. wrote:
Though in all likleyhood that also means that the stompas lifta droppas may get a change. Since they were buffed smashagunz for all intense and purposes. Though, if they keep their statlines and get a decrease I don think a kustom stompa becomes rather enticing.

I suggest going through the FAQ and review the changes done for drukhari, DG and admech. It's minimal effort, there were exactly zero datasheet changes outside of keywords and adding rules that everyone in the army has.

Anything outside of that is nowhere likely to happen.

FW 40k is on life support and will eventually disappear. I assume in 5-6 years none of these rules will remain.

**pepi55**

So turns out that grots arent useless after all....

I guess the reason they got nerfed is because with the boyz nerfs, only grots will be taken.

Grots not having obsec is probably supposed to mitigate that I think but not really successfully seems to be the case. Too bad for the boyz...

The "boyz are terrible" thing, does that also regard the snagga boyz? or are they fine to be taken for more that objective holding purposes?

**koooaei**

Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

**Scactha**

Goonhammer seems to disagree on Boyz

Ork Review

**pepi55**

koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

But why are we comparing to DE, admech and GK?
DE and admech are simply too cheap from what I understand so that battle is already lost until some kind of price change.
GK are comparable to custodes from what I know (dont have their codex to double check) and it sounds like youre comparing 9ppm units to units with ridiculous costs.

Im interested to hear how they compare on average against other armies.
I haven't heard a comparison against spehs mahreens and necrons yet. How do boys compare to those?
I know about MEQ wounds and stuff but I think 10 boys can handle a single squad of SM troops right?
Against necrons I myself only played 8th codex so im also curious how the new boyz can handle necrons.

**Bossdoc**

koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

10 Goff Snaggaboyz one-shot a raider - the output is okay, the Main Problem is delivery...

**Afrodactyl**

pepi55 wrote:
So turns out that grots arent useless after all.... I guess the reason they got nerfed is because with the boyz nerfs, only grots will be taken.

Grots not having obsec is probably supposed to mitigate that I think but not really successfully seems to be the case. Too bad for the boyz...

The "boyz are terrible" thing, does that also regard the snagga boyz? or are they fine to be taken for more that objective holding purposes?

Boyz still have a place in the army list, they just need to be used slightly differently is all. Snaggas are good, especially in a vehicle/monster meta. Shoota boys are garbage though, especially in comparison to the army's other choices.