We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Vineheart01**

Meh my rig is going to be a goff rokker stadium.

**CthuluIsSpy**

That would be an improvement, yes.

**Grimskul**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Meh my rig is going to be a goff rokker stadium.

Now that would be a right banger thing to do. You've got my vote

**Vineheart01**

its something i was meaning to do with a battlewagon for ages, and just never found the motivation to do it.
Rig to me looks like its a rock star platform. Even makes sense that the Kill Rig is a psyker lol

Though i must admit i am torn. I dont play in tournaments, so often i 3D print stuff from geargutz for more variation in my....unnecessarily large ork army.
I have the old metal goff rokkers, but i feel compelled to use geargutz' rockstars because man they look so much cooler. But....metal models! ughh lol
...i might just say eff it and do both. Even though im not even sure running 2 kill rigs is a good idea or not lol

**AceXT**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Meh my rig is going to be a goff rokker stadium.

With these boyz on stage, perhaps? I'm not a fan of the rig, but the idea of a Squig-drawn Doof Wagon is rather intriguing.

**gungo**

Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah thats my opinion too.
Snaggas feel pointless as they are BARELY better than boyz and boyz arent that great to begin with, but the rig is awesome and all it can transport period is beastsnaggas so...might as well pay the extra 30pts for snaggas vs boyz to jump inside it instead of paying for a trukk.

I mean casting frazzle on a model that is big as a battlewagon is insane move 12in, advance d6, pivot 90 degrees and cast frazzle every enemy unit within 9in has a 4+ chance to take d3 mortal wounds, shoot with your auto hitting main wpn, and all your other weapons are +1 to hit or reroll vs monsters and vehicles. Spend 2cp and then ramming speed into a unit you want to lock up for more mortal wounds. Then let your opponent worry about killing a t8, 16 wound, 3+/6++ transport w ramshackle… and potentially exploding in thier deployment zone… only to unleash 10 snagga boys w klaw..

**the_scotsman**

Hey gang, I want to quickly make a note of something that I hadn't noticed before:

"Some rules can generate additional attacks during the attack sequence itself, e.g. ‘after resolving all this model’s attacks, it
can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the inflict
damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.’ In these cases, these additional attacks can never benefit from rules that
let you roll more than one hit roll for each attack being made –
they can only ever generate one additional hit roll for each attack
being made – but all other rules that are triggered by attacks, or
that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by
other rules) apply to each additional hit roll. In addition, these additional attacks cannot themselves trigger any rules that would generate any further additional attacks."

^this is the new FAQ that removed the 'super blender succubus' interaction with Competitive Edge.

however, I want to take note of a bit of wording on several abilities our various characters have, for example, The Beastboss on Squigosaur's Squigosaur Jaws:

"Each time the bearer fights, it makes 3 additional attacks with this weapon..."

Does this rule count as a "Rule that causes a model to make additional attacks during the attack sequence" and therefore additional attacks from things like Beast Choppas, Choppas, Attack Squigs, Squigosaur Jaws etc cannot generate more bonus attacks from for example Goffs Kultur and Brutal But Kunnin?

**epronovost**

gungo wrote:
koooaei wrote:
Snaggas are even worse cause they're more expensive and still don't do anything.
It's painful to compare our infantry to what de, admech and gk got.

Snaggas only benefit is they can ride on a Killrig
The 6++ and +1 to hit on vehicles/monsters is kinda useful…
But not worth the cost upgrade.
I only take them because Killrig can transport them and that saves me from buying a mostly useless trukk for the boys.

They do have a cheap strategem that can make up to three Beastsnagga unit get +1 to wound against a vehicle. A squad (or two or three) of Goff beastnagga boyz on the charge with that strat can basically scrap any vehicle or monster you might want to focus. That's probably their best use. Against knights or maybe even future upcoming guards and Tyranids, they might prove to be useful.

**Kebabcito**

I think so. Brutal but kunning will make all your attacks to go by beast choppa profile...

**kingbbobb**

Jidmah wrote:
Scactha wrote:
Goonhammer seems to disagree on Boyz

Ork Review

While goonhammer tends to write really good articles most of the time, their orks review is merely an average "blogger assumes orks work like marines" garbage post you can get pretty much everywhere.

goonhammer are generally good but not always correct, they are people just like us subject personal bias and to human error - i and others actually pointed out a few errors in their review.

anything said by anyone should be takin with a pinch of salt

**Jidmah**

I'm not talking about errors - I'm talking about lacking the basic understanding of how orks work. Just look at that quote you posted:

"one weapon with 1d6 shots that is terrible at shooting vehicles and another single shot weapon hitting on 6+ instead of 5+? Insane!"
That's just dumb gak you see from people who have zero experience with building ork lists and playing them.

Goonhammer usually knows their gak, so it's extremely disappointing to see such an article about orks that's essentially spikey bits or BOLS levels of quality.

**Vineheart01**

the_scotsman wrote:
Hey gang, I want to quickly make a note of something that I hadn't noticed before:

"Some rules can generate additional attacks during the attack sequence itself, e.g. ‘after resolving all this model’s attacks, it
can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the inflict
damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.’ In these cases, these additional attacks can never benefit from rules that
let you roll more than one hit roll for each attack being made –
they can only ever generate one additional hit roll for each attack
being made – but all other rules that are triggered by attacks, or
that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by
other rules) apply to each additional hit roll. In addition, these additional attacks cannot themselves trigger any rules that would generate any further additional attacks."

^this is the new FAQ that removed the 'super blender succubus' interaction with Competitive Edge.

however, I want to take note of a bit of wording on several abilities our various characters have, for example, The Beastboss on Squigosaur's Squigosaur Jaws:

"Each time the bearer fights, it makes 3 additional attacks with this weapon..."

Does this rule count as a "Rule that causes a model to make additional attacks during the attack sequence" and therefore additional attacks from things like Beast Choppas, Choppas, Attack Squigs, Squigosaur Jaws etc cannot generate more bonus attacks from for example Goffs Kultur and Brutal But Kunnin?

i am 100% sure that its referring to exploding 6s type effects, as the rules as written would cause them to explode infinitely if they didnt exclude them.
That breaks way way WAY too much stuff otherwise, orks arent the only ones with random "make x attacks with this weapon, but only x attacks"

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
I'm not talking about errors - I'm talking about lacking the basic understanding of how orks work. Just look at that quote you posted:

"one weapon with 1d6 shots that is terrible at shooting vehicles and another single shot weapon hitting on 6+ instead of 5+? Insane!"
That's just dumb gak you see from people who have zero experience with building ork lists and playing them.

Goonhammer usually knows their gak, so it's extremely disappointing to see such an article about orks that's essentially spikey bits or BOLS levels of quality.

Yeah, it's very evident they don't have a long-time Orks player on their writing team given what they've covered for them so far. It's definitely all seen through the lens of SM/Eldar reroll heaven armies where these weapon stats would be a lot stronger on a BS3+ platforms with reroll auras that they kind of assume things without having thought it through.

**kingbbobb**

im due to play a friend (craftworld eldar) and this is the army i am going to use using some place holders obviously

Spoiler:

plan is deff dread teleport drop
1xsnagga boys in kill rig
3x nobz in 2 truks with mega armoures war boss

traktor kannons to shoot hemlock or other vehicles

**Blackie**

Beardedragon wrote:

Mek Gunz:
Oh feth me how the mighty have fallen. I dont even care if Mek Gunz come in units, but what i do care about, is the fact they have gone UP in price WHILE having leadership 4. Kill a single Mek Gun (which isnt difficult) and have 50% chance the next will run off. This is even bigger of a problem than Killa Kanz, but the point still stands. Its not fair to have a 50% chance to see a 45ppm run off because a super easy vehicle was destroyed. If they want to stay in a unit, they should have a morale of at least 6.

Sure you could put them in lone squads, but that just takes up heavy slots, and you dont want that on a 45ppm only. As i see it, im fething done with Mek Gunz.

Mega Nobz
Good for 35 ppm, over priced for 45 point with killsaws. Why am i paying more for my terminators that has no invul, cant shoot properly and cant deepstrike, than anyone else does for their terminator variants?Mega Nobz with killsaws shouldnt be a day over 40 points, hell id go as far as to say that killsaws should have been 35 and the normal mega nob variant should be 32ppm. Paying the same or more as others do for their terminators has always bugged me when mega nobz can only do one thing good (killing heavies), where everyone elses can do multiple things good. With Ghaz they used to be worth it, now they are not.

Anyway, paying 35ppm is decent with powerklaws. I will not pay 45ppm for killsaws however.

I disagree about these. Mek gunz became much more killy for just +5 points. KMKs and Traktor Kannons are so much better than old 40ppm Smasha Gunz that it's a significant improvement. Sure, bringing lone models might suck, but orks are encouraged to go multi detachment so it shouldn't be a problem. Fielding 2 or 3 is trivial, people who used to field 6+ may have a problem. At the moment I wouldn't leave home without a couple of Mek Gunz.

Meganobz are good, better than they were in 8th. Barebone models are pretty cheap, and there's also some nice tricks with the kombi rokkit upgrade. Goffs and big krumpaz are quite killy, deathskulls gets some protection against MWs and obj sec.

One of the real losers in this codex is Big Ol' Ghaz IMHO.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are lootas and burnas viable?
I know lootas got something of a nerf (why does a fire support unit have a dakka weapon?) but apparently burnas got improved?

Lootas have been improved. Now they're chaper, gained T5, lost penalty if they moved, fire guaranteed 2 shoots and if embarked in a trukk should easily get the full 3. Only downside is the presence of a mek every 5 dudes, but even with him the unit is now deadlier than in 8th. I wouldn't field them on foot though, now they're basically another trukk unit. For extra protection, chance to get better LOS and max out their shots.

**koooaei**

On a second thought, why not run foots logging lootas hiding behind buggies like the winning did with burnas. If you have hs slots, that is.

They're not terrible when freeboota trait kicks in.

**xttz**

Blackie wrote:

Lootas have been improved. Now they're chaper, gained T5, lost penalty if they moved, fire guaranteed 2 shoots and if embarked in a trukk should easily get the full 3. Only downside is the presence of a mek every 5 dudes, but even with him the unit is now deadlier than in 8th. I wouldn't field them on foot though, now they're basically another trukk unit. For extra protection, chance to get better LOS and max out their shots.

Between trukk mobility and deffguns no longer being heavy weapons it should be pretty easy to keep Lootas firing at full effectiveness.

I'm quite keen on Lootas for my Bad Moons at some point but am holding out to see precisely how Trukk Boyz gets FAQ'd before getting any. As it stands you can put Lootas in the same transport as another trukk boyz unit and have them benefit from the +1 to hit. I'm not certain it's intended, but at the same time I'm not sure if GW would even bother changing it.

**Beardedragon**

Blackie wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:

Mek Gunz:
Oh feth me how the mighty have fallen. I dont even care if Mek Gunz come in units, but what i do care about, is the fact they have gone UP in price WHILE having leadership 4. Kill a single Mek Gun (which isnt difficult) and have 50% chance the next will run off. This is even bigger of a problem than Killa Kanz, but the point still stands. Its not fair to have a 50% chance to see a 45ppm run off because a super easy vehicle was destroyed. If they want to stay in a unit, they should have a morale of at least 6.

Sure you could put them in lone squads, but that just takes up heavy slots, and you dont want that on a 45ppm only. As i see it, im fething done with Mek Gunz.

Mega Nobz
Good for 35 ppm, over priced for 45 point with killsaws. Why am i paying more for my terminators that has no invul, cant shoot properly and cant deepstrike, than anyone else does for their terminator variants?Mega Nobz with killsaws shouldnt be a day over 40 points, hell id go as far as to say that killsaws should have been 35 and the normal mega nob variant should be 32ppm. Paying the same or more as others do for their terminators has always bugged me when mega nobz can only do one thing good (killing heavies), where everyone elses can do multiple things good. With Ghaz they used to be worth it, now they are not.

Anyway, paying 35ppm is decent with powerklaws. I will not pay 45ppm for killsaws however.

I disagree about these. Mek gunz became much more killy for just +5 points. KMKs and Traktor Kannons are so much better than old 40ppm Smasha Gunz that it's a significant improvement. Sure, bringing lone models might suck, but orks are encouraged to go multi detachment so it shouldn't be a problem. Fielding 2 or 3 is trivial, people who used to field 6+ may have a problem. At the moment I wouldn't leave home without a couple of Mek Gunz.

Meganobz are good, better than they were in 8th. Barebone models are pretty cheap, and there's also some nice tricks with the kombi rokkit upgrade. Goffs and big krumpaz are quite killy, deathskulls gets some protection against MWs and obj sec.

One of the real losers in this codex is Big Ol' Ghaz IMHO.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are lootas and burnas viable?
I know lootas got something of a nerf (why does a fire support unit have a dakka weapon?) but apparently burnas got improved?

Lootas have been improved. Now they're chaper, gained T5, lost penalty if they moved, fire guaranteed 2 shoots and if embarked in a trukk should easily get the full 3. Only downside is the presence of a mek every 5 dudes, but even with him the unit is now deadlier than in 8th. I wouldn't field them on foot though, now they're basically another trukk unit. For extra protection, chance to get better LOS and max out their shots.

I agree that Mega Nobz have only been buffed this edition, that is a fact. I was just hoping they would be cheaper, because even at 35ppm, we dont gain as much value out of them as others do for their terminators at 40ppm.

The problem i have with Mega Nobz is their double killsaw variant for +10 points. a Mega Nob with 4 attacks isnt worth 45 points. sure you can get your points back and all but its really risky and involves many other models to support them. As i see it, only the barebone version is worth it. But yes MANZ were buffed, no doubt about it. faster, cheaper and tougher. 35ppm is very good compared to what we used to have, with their buffs. Of course you wont be advancing and charging them anymore though.

Mek Gunz are not worth it unless you put them in lone squads, and if you do that, you wont be fielding any battlewagons for transport of MANZ or other vehicles like it. Much of ork backline shooting to hold our backline objectives and screen out comes from the heavy slot, so lone mek gunz for 45ppm will compete with things such as Kannon wagons, where they didnt before because you could have many Mek Gunz in a single slot. Sure running lone Mek Gunz is still great, but the moment you have 2 Mek Gunz in one squad, its no longer worth it as there is a very high chance your other mek gun will run off from morale (50%). I dont feel like having leadership 4 on a 45ppm is fair, thats all. But sure if you dont "need" the heavy slots for anything then theres no issue in putting the Mek gunz in lone squads. They will still do a good job in lone squads.

**Scactha**

Afrodactyl wrote:
Boys aren't the best choice in the book by a huge margin, but they are still an effective force multiplier tool and pressure unit. We talk about how easy it is to wipe boys and trukks off the table, but when there's so many targets of similar profiles bearing down on the opponent they start needing to make some decisions about target priority.

Target saturation and redundancy are powerful tools. This is exactly why I think Troops aren´t "tax". People look at list building thinking "it´s a wargame - hence stuff that doesn´t kill well/live long sucks". Yet scoring VP wins games and low cost "tax" units are good at that. If you mix them up with threatening units you create a target priority problem for the opponent while raising your chances to score.

I believe you should approach list building with a scoring strategy in mind first and fighting synergies second. Goonhammer did a great article on this. The take home message is:

players start to win more than half their games at 71+ VP scored (including 10 for having a painted army), and /.../ win more than 80% of their games at 81+ VP scored

E.g. If you take a "tax" 15 Grotz and a Blob of Boyz followed by whatever fighting units you prefer, you just gave yourself the option to pick Green Tide for 3 VP/Turn while also camping objectives. Or they could Get da Good Bitz for 6 VP/Turn (if you pick Trukkboyz they can even do this from T1. Plus Warbikers excel at this.). These are much easier VP to score than coming to the table hoping for the opponent to show up with 5 characters and 10 vehicles. What if he didn´t? You fight a good fight yet lose on points.

Better come with a solid plan for winning those VP

"Tax" units help with that imo.

**Blackie**

Beardedragon wrote:

Mek Gunz are not worth it unless you put them in lone squads, and if you do that, you wont be fielding any battlewagons for transport of MANZ or other vehicles like it. Much of ork backline shooting to hold our backline objectives and screen out comes from the heavy slot, so lone mek gunz for 45ppm will compete with things such as Kannon wagons, where they didnt before because you could have many Mek Gunz in a single slot. Sure running lone Mek Gunz is still great, but the moment you have 2 Mek Gunz in one squad, its no longer worth it as there is a very high chance your other mek gun will run off from morale (50%). I dont feel like having leadership 4 on a 45ppm is fair, thats all. But sure if you dont "need" the heavy slots for anything then theres no issue in putting the Mek gunz in lone squads. They will still do a good job in lone squads.

Well, considering how we don't really need to save lots of CPs, we're seeing lists with 3 detachments which is 6+ heavy supports and only cost 4-5 CPs pre-game at most which isn't unreasonable. You could always do patrol + spearhead for 8 heavy supports, and still have 4 fast attacks slots for some bikes, koptas and buggies and four planes on top of that.

I'm currently playing patrol + outrider with a battle wagon and 3 lone mek gunz as heavy supports for example. Or battle wagon, gun/kannon wagon and 2 mek gunz if I cut the flyer.

I own 6 mek gunz and I know I'll shelve half of them for the entire edition but at least they now have the potential to do something great. In 8th mek gunz's point was just to provide tons of cheap wounds on the table, damage caused was a bonus. A single smasha gun had little damage output and took forever to resolve the firepower of a full battery, for the same (if not even worse) results of 2-3 current KMKs/Traktors. I've always loved ork artillery I'm glad they now are a legit unit and not a gimmick just to overwhelm the board with cheap wounds.

**koooaei**

Knk ignored transhiman which was huge. Also, got extra shots on 6s were cheaper, could anvsnce, charge, fall back. Now they're not nearly as good as they used to be but are still an ok unit if played solo.

**Jidmah**

Found this Mathhammer stuff on mek guns on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/p0ehb9/ork_effectiveness_of_new_ork_mek_gunz/

Hilariously, bubblechukkas and KMK seem to be the best guns right now.

**Kneisll**

i really dont know why you all think meganobz are getting only 1 A for the Killsaws.
The weapon clearly states: if it is equipped with 2 killsaws, it makes 1 extra attack for THIS WEAPON.
your model is equipped with 2 WEAPONS.
so if you have 1 Killsaw you get 0 extra attack
you have 2? fine you get 2 extra attacks. it is RAW and in my opinion also RAI with the point costs

**the_scotsman**

Kneisll wrote:
i really dont know why you all think meganobz are getting only 1 A for the Killsaws.
The weapon clearly states: if it is equipped with 2 killsaws, it makes 1 extra attack for THIS WEAPON.
your model is equipped with 2 WEAPONS.
so if you have 1 Killsaw you get 0 extra attack
you have 2? fine you get 2 extra attacks. it is RAW and in my opinion also RAI with the point costs

...huh. Yeah, you're actually right. The model is equipped with 2 kill saws, each one has the rule "if this model is equipped with 2 killsaws, make 1 additional attack with this weapon".

So if you have 2x kill saws, they act just like if the model had 2 choppas - 2 bonus attacks.

**Kneisll**

the_scotsman wrote:
Kneisll wrote:
i really dont know why you all think meganobz are getting only 1 A for the Killsaws.
The weapon clearly states: if it is equipped with 2 killsaws, it makes 1 extra attack for THIS WEAPON.
your model is equipped with 2 WEAPONS.
so if you have 1 Killsaw you get 0 extra attack
you have 2? fine you get 2 extra attacks. it is RAW and in my opinion also RAI with the point costs

...huh. Yeah, you're actually right. The model is equipped with 2 kill saws, each one has the rule "if this model is equipped with 2 killsaws, make 1 additional attack with this weapon".

So if you have 2x kill saws, they act just like if the model had 2 choppas - 2 bonus attacks.

exactly... only difference is that the killsaws are giving the bonus Attacks only if you take 2 not 1 for each like choppas.

**koooaei**

So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

**kingbbobb**

koooaei wrote:
So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

Nah been like this for ages.
It's not even overpowering. They are 45 pts per model a killa Kan is 40 Pts And has 4 attacks at flat 3 damage

**pepi55**

Afrodactyl wrote:
pepi55 wrote:
Afrodactyl wrote:
Boyz still have a place in the army list, they just need to be used slightly differently is all. Snaggas are good, especially in a vehicle/monster meta. Shoota boys are garbage though, especially in comparison to the army's other choices.

Please elaborate on how you think they should be used now?
Good thing I haven't modelled my shoota boiz kits yet. They will probably end up as choppa boiz or as bodies for lootas+burnas

So I'm currently using three mobs of trukk boys, with 10 models apiece and the Nob has a Klaw. My list is very much weighted as an alpha strike type list, so I've tried to put as many early threats as possible on the board.

The boys race up the field and do one of a handful of things;
1. Get obliterated
2. Get ignored and do nothing
3. Kill something (something that's probably damaged by another unit)
4. Tag something and take it out of the game for a turn

Depending on the flow of the game, all of these are probably a bonus for me.
1. It means those attacks haven't been used against my kommandos, stormboys, buggies, etc, so they are free to cause chaos.
2. It means that they're still there next turn to keep some momentum going by attacking, taking or contesting an objective, etc.
3 and 4. I've finished off or tied up an enemy unit, so I'm starting to limit the damage I'm receiving on the following turns and can put pressure on objectives.

Boys aren't the best choice in the book by a huge margin, but they are still an effective force multiplier tool and pressure unit. We talk about how easy it is to wipe boys and trukks off the table, but when there's so many targets of similar profiles bearing down on the opponent they start needing to make some decisions about target priority.

Don't get me wrong, they aren't a horrendous unit nor an amazing one. But we've always done best when we pick an army type and stick with it, and grots don't mesh with how my list wants to close the gap quickly. Between my trukk boys, kommandos and stormboys I have a lot of fast moving infantry that can take objectives, beat heads, or hide and be action monkeys as the situation requires.

Thanks for the insighr, this is actually very helpful information as I still dont have the experience to know what to do with each unit.
So to paraphrase and make sure I understood it right, Boyz are now supposed to threaten key objectives and draw fire away from more important units?

Now I want to know what those units should be. Are the killy units more important? Im thinking that boyz are important because they are more likely to score points because of obsec and the other units are there to make sure that the boyz keep those objectives by drawing focus away from them.

but I can see it working the other way if the units the boyz distract from are capable of destroying the opposing army and clearing the field so you can score uncontested.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kingbbobb wrote:
koooaei wrote:
So, suddenly there's still sense in taking saws - at least 1 or 2 per 3 manz

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does seem like an oversight, though.

Nah been like this for ages.
It's not even overpowering. They are 45 pts per model a killa Kan is 40 Pts And has 4 attacks at flat 3 damage

but killa kanz dont get kulturs so its somewhat of a tradeoff?

Also, dont MANz and killa kanz fill different roles? I thought kanz are now the de-facto TP in and charge unit while MANz are more of a start on the board unit

**kingbbobb**

Jidmah wrote:
Found this Mathhammer stuff on mek guns on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/p0ehb9/ork_effectiveness_of_new_ork_mek_gunz/

Hilariously, bubblechukkas and KMK seem to be the best guns right now.

Kmk's look good all rounder.

I did have my doubts about the one shot tractor kannon even against flying vehicles with its d6+ 3 damage

**Kebabcito**

Mek Gunz are worth having 3 since they benefit from Speedwaaagh and you're shooting 3D6 4+ S8 shoots at -4 for D6 damage blast for 135 points.

We have not a lot of units worth staying in the deployment zone, they're one of those units we need in the backfield. Together with Squigbuggies.