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Still, would have been nice if there was more in the way of interesting subroles in the codex. Like, well most factions that are coming out now. A painboy compared to a apothecary is a pretty sad comparison, same for bigmeks and techmarines. Weirdboyz and Libarians isn't a great matchup either.

Only warbosses feel like they can excel at face smashing, but pale in comparison to the buffing abilities of the average captain.

I have no idea why it feels like GW was holding back with the ork codex when they went pretty hog wild with some of the other 9th edition codexes. The ork book isn't weak by any margin, but it still feels like it's lacking some of that magic that other factions got.

 xttz wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
dont think its a mistake that it works for vehicles also. because how else would he be different from any given warboss if he gave the same buff?

Since warbosses gives +1 to hit to core and characters, we needed the waaagh banner to do something else. and while i find it lazy as F that he just gives +1 to hit to everyone and nothing else, i guess thats that.

He could at least give +1 leadership or something.

anyway, i dont think its a mistake that he gives +1 to vehicles.

Perhaps, but it feels off. They might have just left it as it was because of the new Warboss detachment restriction, to ensure there were still enough buffs for gettin' stuck in.

Plus everywhere else in the codex GW have been quite careful to exclude Gretchin from virtually every other bonus rule not specifically targeted at them, but this guy gives them +1 to hit. Even Ghazghkull doesn't buff Kans. I reckon they just didn't pay much attention to this unit.

You're right, this would be the ideal unit for morale / leadership buffs. The Waaagh banner doesn't even interact with calling a Waaagh...

Yeah, the WAAAGH! banner is a huge wasted opportunity to not just be a slight repeat of the Warboss' aura. I always thought that it could be used in the command phase to "inspire" a unit within 6" of it to count as if a "WAAAGH" was declared (you'd be locked of course into a WAAAGH! or SpeedWAAAGH! based on your WL, unless you had Ghazzy where you get both). I mean SM get relics/strats that let you skip ahead to doctrines, I don't see why Orks can't do something similar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
Still, would have been nice if there was more in the way of interesting subroles in the codex. Like, well most factions that are coming out now. A painboy compared to a apothecary is a pretty sad comparison, same for bigmeks and techmarines. Weirdboyz and Libarians isn't a great matchup either.

Only warbosses feel like they can excel at face smashing, but pale in comparison to the buffing abilities of the average captain.

I have no idea why it feels like GW was holding back with the ork codex when they went pretty hog wild with some of the other 9th edition codexes. The ork book isn't weak by any margin, but it still feels like it's lacking some of that magic that other factions got.

I think fundamentally its a lack of interest from the game designers to some extent. For factions to get flavourful/interesting rules usually requires an advocate on the rules team to actually get stuff done that goes beyond checking a box on whatever is expected for a codex (Cities of Sigmar was basically a passion project from a designer that saved a lot of the Old World range). Orks seem to be a side project/army rather than a main one for most people in GW barring a few people, and it doesn't seem like those people affect much or if any of the rules writing process when it comes to Orks.

Regardless, I'm determined to have a good time with this book. Though I will admit i'll feel a little salty if several things that were lacking or removed (additional kustom jobs or Klan spells) get re-added in a supplement.

cody.d. wrote:
Regardless, I'm determined to have a good time with this book. Though I will admit i'll feel a little salty if several things that were lacking or removed (additional kustom jobs or Klan spells) get re-added in a supplement.

Not sure what DLC will have Ork stuff, but I expect it to be good.

I do fear what the FAQ will do to the lads tho. I expect quite a few changes that work against us in addition to corrections.

Oof.

But it's okay! You don't play Orks to dominate the tourney scene, you play Orks because you love Orks.

We have a new campaign book including orks due shortly.. but looking at the recent warzone charadon books I wouldn’t expect much… the only interesting thing they did do was army of renown… which is like the old specialized detachments. It could theoretically make something like a dread waaagh viable..

 Jidmah wrote:
I think in all of 8th and 9th up till know I was able to heal vehicles about four times and it mattered once.

Repairing is a rather worthless ability for orks. Vehicles tend to be either undamaged or dead, and even if you repair them, they die next turn anyways.

I had a different experience. Patching up vehicles was quite useful. There's always something half-dead, and now your opponent needs to strip this extra 1-4 hp off which means another couple of gaks not going into your other stuff. It gets better over the course of the game as there's less stuff around and everything starts to matter more. Now the problem was not with the fixings but with the vehicles being pretty bad - other than kmk that indeed usually got one-shotted. And that mek preferred to hang on top of a building with a relic sag surrounded by grots - not mek gunz.

But now, when you do have a bunch of buggies and a mek with dss and kff or tellyporta hanging around them, you actually get to use your fixing ability much more often. I'd even buy a grot oiler if I have leftover points. But not an overpriced kustom job for the oiler.

 koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I think in all of 8th and 9th up till know I was able to heal vehicles about four times and it mattered once.

Repairing is a rather worthless ability for orks. Vehicles tend to be either undamaged or dead, and even if you repair them, they die next turn anyways.

I had a different experience. Patching up vehicles was quite useful. There's always something half-dead, and now your opponent needs to strip this extra 1-4 hp off which means another couple of gaks not going into your other stuff. It gets better over the course of the game as there's less stuff around and everything starts to matter more. Now the problem was not with the fixings but with the vehicles being pretty bad - other than kmk that indeed usually got one-shotted. And that mek preferred to hang on top of a building with a relic sag surrounded by grots - not mek gunz.

But now, when you do have a bunch of buggies and a mek with dss and kff or tellyporta hanging around them, you actually get to use your fixing ability much more often. I'd even buy a grot oiler if I have leftover points. But not an overpriced kustom job for the oiler.

Couldn´t agree more. That´s part of the point of a target saturation strategy that Orks do well. You engage and fight the attrition war, but when you can trickle back a few wounds it translates into the opponent needing to invest that extra odd shot and so on. E.g. I´ve had a number of midboard scrums where the Painboy either healed the Warboss or a MANZ plus MA Big Meks with KFF welding back the odd armour plate on a bodyblocking Trukk or BW. It´s not something you rely on, but a slight perk.

Drukhari DLC was crazy, and veterans of the cohort too.

Anyways, I wouldn't expect much. Maybe some useful stratagems, as those we've got now are pretty useless.

Those DLC are also likely to be dedicated to a single klan, like the Drukhari one which only has rules for the Witch Cult of Strife. I wouldn't care less about a Snakebites expansion for example.

Anything that comes out of those books is a bonus, don't rely on that. We're not talking like proper supplements like the one we had in 8th.

Praying to Gork (or Mork) for a Dread / Walkerz themed army of reknown. Forget buggies - I want a terrifying dread mob stomping around.

FAQ expectations:
Nerfs to buggies, warbikers, dakkajets, anything that basically works and makes us competitive. Except beastsnagga stuff. that gets a nerf later. gotta sell those models first.

They probably find a way to throw a nerf at grots too. just because they can

Obviously, the only reasonable way to balance the codex and the forces of the universe is to nerf buggies and make grots 10ppm.

yeah, as overtuned as the drukhari codex is in terms of a few points values it is tough to argue that it isn't an absolute labor of love for the writer, and if the person writing the book doesn't really truly love the army they're writing for, I can't really blame them that much.

Like, how mad can you really get when you look in your bag at mcdonalds and you see that the dude slamming out sandwiches for 10 bucks an hour accidentally left the pickles off your quarter pounder? GW might graphically design the feth out of their codex books, but they're the product of someone getting paid under minimum wage in several US states. If the book isn't a passion project for the writer that's ALWAYS going to show.

I hope they add a detatchment for grots or something like we had before with the grot mob. Now that they can actually use stratagems, that would be great. Killa Kanz and grot mega tanks are actually feasable atm.

Beardedragon wrote:
FAQ expectations:
Nerfs to buggies, warbikers, dakkajets, anything that basically works and makes us competitive. Except beastsnagga stuff. that gets a nerf later. gotta sell those models first.

They probably find a way to throw a nerf at grots too. just because they can

The first FAQ never nerfs anything and unless orks start sporting a 60%+ winrate (which I don't see happening), we won't see any second FAQ just like all the other codices outside of DE and admech didn't.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
FAQ expectations:
Nerfs to buggies, warbikers, dakkajets, anything that basically works and makes us competitive. Except beastsnagga stuff. that gets a nerf later. gotta sell those models first.

They probably find a way to throw a nerf at grots too. just because they can

The first FAQ never nerfs anything and unless orks start sporting a 60%+ winrate (which I don't see happening), we won't see any second FAQ just like all the other codices outside of DE and admech didn't.

Dont FAQs tend to mess a bit with the cost of units? thats what i meant by nerfs. I sort of expected things like the scrapjet to increase a bit in price.

I hope not, but i expect it to

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
FAQ expectations:
Nerfs to buggies, warbikers, dakkajets, anything that basically works and makes us competitive. Except beastsnagga stuff. that gets a nerf later. gotta sell those models first.

They probably find a way to throw a nerf at grots too. just because they can

The first FAQ never nerfs anything and unless orks start sporting a 60%+ winrate (which I don't see happening), we won't see any second FAQ just like all the other codices outside of DE and admech didn't.

Dont FAQs tend to mess a bit with the cost of units? thats what i meant by nerfs. I sort of expected things like the scrapjet to increase a bit in price.

I hope not, but i expect it to

Early points changes only happen when:
a) There's an obvious error, like the 240pt nundam suits, or
b) When there's a really extreme external balance issue, like Dark Eldar posting consistent 60%+ winrates and every list containing Raiders & Drazhar.

I wouldn't expect to see any early point increases unless Orks are in a similar situation. Failing that I doubt we'll see any adjustment until an early 2022 points download, which is basically the beta version of Chapter Approved.

gungo wrote:
We have a new campaign book including orks due shortly.. but looking at the recent warzone charadon books I wouldn’t expect much… the only interesting thing they did do was army of renown… which is like the old specialized detachments. It could theoretically make something like a dread waaagh viable..

One thing that gives me hope for the DLC, even if it is founded in marketing cynicism, is that GW has a new Boyz kit to sell. And the current codex won’t do that. Even if you love Boyz, I can’t see people putting cash towards replacing units that they already own and are non-competitive. For that reason I am hoping the army of renown buffs some of the tradition stuff back to playable. I know there is some feeling that it will just be Snakebites to sell more of the new models, but if 145 point Squigbosses, 25 Squighogs and190 point Kill Rigs don’t drive demand I do not think a set of special rules will help. This of course implies that GW understands the implications of the rules they write, which is a dangerous assumption to make. But as someone who spent the lockdown painting 150 Boyz and owns zero Buggies, it is the last hope I have.

well thats good then. I dont feel like anything barring some beast snagga stuff really over performs compared to what others have.

In fact we have quite some underwhelming choices here and there.

How much we wanna bet that the FAQ will be in the lines of "Trukk can now carry 12 <CLAN> models or Trukk Boys" instead of giving specialist detachments <CLAN> without Kulture

Beardedragon wrote:
well thats good then. I dont feel like anything barring some beast snagga stuff really over performs compared to what others have.

In fact we have quite some underwhelming choices here and there.

We're the best at having underwhelming choices across all the new dexes!

I don't think we are going to get rebalanced honestly.

Considering some the things i seen other armies pull off at least. I feel we are well balanced.

Except for some traps here and there. I think we are in a decent place, we just need some clarifications... and Dakka to be able to shoot in advance, that's silly not being able too .

Btw does anyone have an suggestions on a good unit to handle t8/7 from our codex? I am having some issues finding something efficient.

I just expect minor clarifications and some change to specialist attachments and how they interact with thier clan.. hoping to keep clan but lose kultur but expecting just being able to use transports.

And I can see the army of renown being a greentide or dread mob… if they do a beastsnagga army of renown they are just asking to make something overpowered compared to the rest of the codex.

There is changes afoot in FW as well… not sure what that means for our units there too.

I feel our codex is balanced externally and we will have a tier 2 codex again.. good but not great and able to win vs most armies but not the top 3 most times.

Surely the FAQ will buff Nobz on warbikes though? They have the same toughness and wounds as boys. hell the nob from warbikers have 4 wounds but the nob from nobs warbikers have only 3. they also lack smoke cloud and big red button ability.

pepi55 wrote:
How much we wanna bet that the FAQ will be in the lines of "Trukk can now carry 12 <CLAN> models or Trukk Boys" instead of giving specialist detachments <CLAN> without Kulture

It's very likely that they wanted the transports to carry specialist ladz instead of flash gits, so you are probably right.

In any case, I feel like this implementation of specialist mobs is still lacking, but superior to the one from SotB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Surely the FAQ will buff Nobz on warbikes though? They have the same toughness and wounds as boys. hell the nob from warbikers have 4 wounds but the nob from nobs warbikers have only 3. they also lack smoke cloud and big red button ability.

Maybe, maybe not. I was just flipping through the FW book this morning and the codex actually broke some datasheets, so we might see above average care to them. I'm fully expecting nob bikers to remain as horribly bad as they are and will pleasantly surprised if they don't.

Beardedragon wrote:
Surely the FAQ will buff Nobz on warbikes though? They have the same toughness and wounds as boys. hell the nob from warbikers have 4 wounds but the nob from nobs warbikers have only 3. they also lack smoke cloud and big red button ability.

I certainly hope so!

One thing I would dearly want from an FAQ, something that lets the third line of the evil sunz trait interact with Dakka type weapons. At the moment it affects, what? The weapons on a wartrike? I genuinely can't think of many more.

 Blackie wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:


I fully expect the Morkanaut to be target #1 that most people gun for turn 1.

That's my problem with 5++ morkanauts. The opponent kills it and nothing have the invuln then. With a few lucky hits it can die really fast, and it's also a massive investment of 380 points, 2CPs from the stratagem and 3 additional CPs from LoW detachment.

A big mek can only be targeted by snipers, just position him quite aggressively but not like he can be assaulted turn 1 and there should be no problem with moving vehicles one turn and still remaining under the bubble.

The problem with the Morkanaut is and always was, that its a bullet magnet. And buffing it to 24wounds with a 6++ doesn't make it better. To kill a 24w T8 6++ model with Laschickenz takes 13.5ish shots. 13.5 shots, 9 hits, 6 wounds and 6++ kicks in for ...5 going through which average...25 dmg. To kill the old 18 wound 5++ model took ....13.5 shots LOL. 13.5 shots, 9 hits, 6 wounds 4 going through for 20dmg, or just enough to kill the Naut. So congrats to GW for "Buffing" the morkanaut and making it worse.

 Jidmah wrote:
I think in all of 8th and 9th up till know I was able to heal vehicles about four times and it mattered once.

Repairing is a rather worthless ability for orks. Vehicles tend to be either undamaged or dead, and even if you repair them, they die next turn anyways.

I'll be honest, it really depends and its situational. One of my favorite tactics was to take a Big Mek with KFF and have him guard my Mek gunz which gave my artillery park a 5++ invuln save AND if any received dmg and didn't die, he could easily fix them up and at least make the enemy waste a few more turns shooting them. I had one game recently (pre-codex) where my opponent just couldn't kill my Mek gunz even with his Laschickens. They either missed, bounced off the KFF or went through but only rolled 4-5dmg. At the end of the game he literally called them the MVP and unkillable.

looking at the rig statlines....im a bit baffled here

I thought the main draw to the Hunta Rig was it was a little cheaper and had that gimicky harpoon gun. But the kill rig...also...has it?

I dont see any difference other than for 2pl less you lose psyker, character, wurrtower (which is actually a mean 'gun'), and gain 5 more capacity that we dont care about right now.
Wat? That feels like a LOT of crap for 2pl

For some reason, GW really, REALLY values transport capacity. (See also: Land Raiders since forever)