Various units from the Forge World Chaos and SM indexes have started to make there way onto 4chan and I've been having fun reading up on some of them, but the unit I was most excited for was the Warlord just to see how they would do a vehicle that gigantic. Only the chaos version is available so far since the loyalist warlord is in the AM book which isn't out until the 23rd.

The Warlord is roughly 4000 points, with S and T 16 and 70 wounds and a 2+ save. It has pretty granular damage weakening starting when it hits 60 wounds, but while at full strength it gets a 3++ from void shields and is BS2+. I won't copypaste all the special rules, but suffice to say you're not tying this thing up in close combat, and even if you do it's still going to shoot you.

The titan power fist is S32 and deals an automatic 12 damage at -5 AP, but it's probably better to use the Saturnyne Lascutter which is only a modest S20 (and so still wounds everything short of a Reaver on a 2+) but is otherwise identical and also has a shooting profile with strength 12, 6 damage and as many shots as you can roll consecutive hits (at BS2+, if you're healthy) to a maximum of 12.

Its Quake Cannon is also S20 with 3d6 shots, -5 AP, 6 damage and the ability to halve movement and deny advancing for anything it hits. Its Volcano cannons get S30, -6 AP and 12 damage instead, but only d6 shots - though it does a bonus mortal wound on a to-wound roll of a six. Of the other arm options, the Plasma Annihilator can splash to multiple units and is kind of in between with the profile (but with only S10) but doesn't seem that strong unless it's quite a bit cheaper. The Gatling Blaster is 12 shots, 3 damage and otherwise a battlecannon profile - but hits vs infantry are tripled. Still doesn't seem like it measures up to the other options since you can get double vulcan mega bolters on the shoulders if you really need to dick on infantry, but its fun I guess.

Oh and the Warhound Titan's Inferno gun gets 4d6 autohits at S7 AP-3 D4 so I suspect that's gonna be pretty fun.

I love the absolutely ridiculousness of its rules.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I love the absolutely ridiculousness of its rules.

Agree. It all seems appropriate.

This has always puzzled me:

The Titan Volcano Cannon, and the Ordinatus Volcano Cannon, are both 7" Blast with the Machine Destroyer special rule.

However, the Shadowsword, which also mounts a Volcano Cannon, is only a 5" Blast with no special rules.

And I'm noticing it again: S30 12 Damage from the other two Volcano Cannons, but my Volcano Cannon is only S16 and 2d6 wounds, and it doesn't get the Mortal Wounds bonus. Considering the Ordinatus is only 700-something points, and the Shadowsword is 500 points, I don't see what the difference is.

The Ordinatus isn't actually all that much more gargantuan than the Shadowsword, too. It's longer by about the length of a Leman Russ. It's bigger, for sure, but not particularly drastically.

I mean, it's not a problem, I like the Shadowsword to not be a hilarious number of points, but I've always wondered why the Shadowsword's gun was so drastically weaker.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I love the absolutely ridiculousness of its rules.

Yup, I was really hoping they would give it a crazy high toughness since it was the only AV15 vehicle in 7th so I'm really happy to see that they did. Too bad I don't have £1240 to drop on resin...

Got a link to the reddit page? I really have no dea how to find stuff there.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
This has always puzzled me:

The Titan Volcano Cannon, and the Ordinatus Volcano Cannon, are both 7" Blast with the Machine Destroyer special rule.

However, the Shadowsword, which also mounts a Volcano Cannon, is only a 5" Blast with no special rules.


And I'm noticing it again: S30 12 Damage from the other two Volcano Cannons, but my Volcano Cannon is only S16 and 2d6 wounds, and it doesn't get the Mortal Wounds bonus. Considering the Ordinatus is only 700-something points, and the Shadowsword is 500 points, I don't see what the difference is. The Ordinatus isn't actually all that much bigger than the Shadowsword, too.

The Shadowsword Volcano Cannon is a much smaller and weaker version fluffwise - and I *think* the 7e VC you're referencing is the Reaver-sized one, which I'd expect to be less devastating than this Warlord-sized one. I don't see where you're getting the points for the 8e Ordinatii though, so it's hard to say if the bigger weapons are properly costed.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Got a link to the reddit page? I really have no dea how to find stuff there.

https://i.redd.it/oby0epn7p34z.png

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I love the absolutely ridiculousness of its rules.

Yup, I was really hoping they would give it a crazy high toughness since it was the only AV15 vehicle in 7th so I'm really happy to see that they did. Too bad I don't have £1240 to drop on resin...

I hear kidneys can get you some money

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
This has always puzzled me:

The Titan Volcano Cannon, and the Ordinatus Volcano Cannon, are both 7" Blast with the Machine Destroyer special rule.

However, the Shadowsword, which also mounts a Volcano Cannon, is only a 5" Blast with no special rules.


And I'm noticing it again: S30 12 Damage from the other two Volcano Cannons, but my Volcano Cannon is only S16 and 2d6 wounds, and it doesn't get the Mortal Wounds bonus. Considering the Ordinatus is only 700-something points, and the Shadowsword is 500 points, I don't see what the difference is. The Ordinatus isn't actually all that much bigger than the Shadowsword, too.

The Shadowsword Volcano Cannon is a much smaller and weaker version fluffwise - and I *think* the 7e VC you're referencing is the Reaver-sized one, which I'd expect to be less devastating than this Warlord-sized one. I don't see where you're getting the points for the 8e Ordinatii though, so it's hard to say if the bigger weapons are properly costed.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Got a link to the reddit page? I really have no dea how to find stuff there.

https://i.redd.it/oby0epn7p34z.png

I was using the 7e ordinatus stats.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
This has always puzzled me:

If I had to guess, I would say that it was due to the power systems. One of the most advanced and hardest pieces of tech to produce in 40k is always the massive power systems that power the energy weapons. That is why you see a lot of Guard vehicles retrofitted with solid shot if the gun breaks down, like the Stormsword or the Thunderer. It is just far easier than repairing the 10000 year old magic generator that no one understands.

The Titan legions and the Ordinatus are under the direct control of the Mechanicus, so they obviously keep all of the best stuff for themselves.

Am I the only one who feels that 40k rules aren't suited to deal with absurdities of this scale?

I want to see someone paint up an equivallent point amount of Conscripts and Commissars and engage in the biggest disco light show known to 40k.

 Talamare wrote:
Am I the only one who feels that 40k rules aren't suited to deal with absurdities of this scale?

They aren't. Thats why the 3rd-7th core ruleset broke when they introduced Apocalypsis units into the main game

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I want to see someone paint up an equivallent point amount of Conscripts and Commissars and engage in the biggest disco light show known to 40k.

Thats 1333,33 Conscripts for you. We can adjust it to 1.000 conscripts and 20 comissars for 4.000 points.

Now I want to see that battle...

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I want to see someone paint up an equivallent point amount of Conscripts and Commissars and engage in the biggest disco light show known to 40k.

1 Commissar can service about 4 Squads, I think. 1 CC can service 2 Squads. So for every 4 squads [600 points], we need 60 points of CC and 30 points of commissar. This leaves us with no backups. That's 690 points. We can do this 5.7 times in 4000 points, so we'll go with 23 Squads of conscripts, 12 CC's, and 6 Commissars. 23*150+12*30+6*30=3990 points.

1150 Conscripts, 12 CC's, and 6 Commissars. Wow. That's $3450 worth of conscripts!

The laser-light disco show, on it's turn assuming they're all alive, puts out 4600 Lasguns shots. It averages 42 wounds to the titan.

Galas wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Am I the only one who feels that 40k rules aren't suited to deal with absurdities of this scale?

They aren't. Thats why the 3rd-7th core ruleset broke when they introduced Apocalypsis units into the main game

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I want to see someone paint up an equivallent point amount of Conscripts and Commissars and engage in the biggest disco light show known to 40k.

Thats 1333,33 Conscripts for you. We can adjust it to 1.000 conscripts and 20 comissars for 4.000 points.

Now I want to see that battle...

If that battle is ever represented in visual form we'd have to have multiple seizure warnings from all the flashing lights.

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I want to see someone paint up an equivallent point amount of Conscripts and Commissars and engage in the biggest disco light show known to 40k.

1 Commissar can service about 4 Squads, I think. 1 CC can service 2 Squads. So for every 4 squads [600 points], we need 60 points of CC and 30 points of commissar. This leaves us with no backups. That's 690 points. We can do this 5.7 times in 4000 points, so we'll go with 23 Squads of conscripts, 12 CC's, and 6 Commissars. 23*150+12*30+6*30=3990 points.

The laser-light disco show, on it's turn assuming they're all alive, puts out 4600 Lasguns shots. It averages 42 wounds to the titan.

Holy crap so you mean this ridiculous list actually stands a chance at putting the titan down in 3 turns?

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Holy crap so you mean this ridiculous list actually stands a chance at putting the titan down in 3 turns?

No. With the titan having 1 drop, and the Conscripts have 41 drops, the titan will go first and each gun will basically remove a conscript squad from play, not to mention assaulting them. But it's funny to thing about the titan just standing there and slowly evaporating under the fire of an endless number of Lasguns.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The laser-light disco show, on it's turn assuming they're all alive, puts out 4600 Lasguns shots. It averages 42 wounds to the titan.

I know I always point it out, but do you really think you can get 1000 conscripts within 12"?

Unless wounds can spill over to other units then the Titan is hard capped at something like removing 6 squads a turn? The only way it can grab more is if it charges, so it ends up with the hilarious situation where the mass of guardsmen are just backpedalling from the titan while shooting.

The conscripts will still likely lose, but it's hilarious that there's an actual chance they can take the titan down.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Holy crap so you mean this ridiculous list actually stands a chance at putting the titan down in 3 turns?

No. With the titan having 1 drop, and the Conscripts have 41 drops, the titan will go first and each gun will basically remove a conscript squad from play, not to mention assaulting them. But it's funny to thing about the titan just standing there and slowly evaporating under the fire of an endless number of Lasguns.

Plus if your Warlord is within 24" of over a thousand conscripts (let alone rapid fire range) you're seriously doing it wrong.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Holy crap so you mean this ridiculous list actually stands a chance at putting the titan down in 3 turns?

No. With the titan having 1 drop, and the Conscripts have 41 drops, the titan will go first and each gun will basically remove a conscript squad from play, not to mention assaulting them. But it's funny to thing about the titan just standing there and slowly evaporating under the fire of an endless number of Lasguns.

Plus if your Warlord is within 24" of over a thousand conscripts (let alone rapid fire range) you're seriously doing it wrong.

I think the only way to get the conscripts into range is to have the titan sitting in a circle of 3-story tall buildings. Base-to-base, the conscripts will take up something like a third of the board, so getting any significant number of them within 12" of the titan without having multiple layers of them tall will be impossible.

It's funny to think about, though. If I ever find a person with a Warlord Titan and five other IG players, we'll have to at least pose it up to see what 1150 conscripts rapid-firing at a titan looks like!

Chenkov may be gone from the rules, but he lives on in our hearts! No matter the problem, it shall be solved by sending thousands of men to their deaths. Need a minefield cleared? March some men across it. Enemy holed up in a fortress? Block their water supply with disposable fodder! Enemy titan? Gunge up the joints with easily available red paste!

Hahahahahaha, awesome. Just incredibly awesome that Conscripts with minor support could actually pull it off. Brings a tear to my eye that mass flashlights could cause the titan to turn into slag.

 Trickstick wrote:
Chenkov may be gone from the rules, but he lives on in our hearts! No matter the problem, it shall be solved by sending thousands of men to their deaths. Need a minefield cleared? March some men across it. Enemy holed up in a fortress? Block their water supply with disposable fodder! Enemy titan? Gunge up the joints with easily available red paste!

Gone, but not forgotten!

Chenkov was my favorite IG special character back when he was around. I'd use conscripts to set up targets for my artillery.

Apparently, if you have Al-harem too, you could get the entire blob to come on from outflank when it was replaced. I never did it, but that would have been funny.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Unless wounds can spill over to other units then the Titan is hard capped at something like removing 6 squads a turn? The only way it can grab more is if it charges, so it ends up with the hilarious situation where the mass of guardsmen are just backpedalling from the titan while shooting.

The conscripts will still likely lose, but it's hilarious that there's an actual chance they can take the titan down.

Is it bad I'm considering the Tyranid army that consists of nothing but Genestealers and Carnifexes could do a number on the Warlord?

4,000 points worth of Genestealers

So at least volcano cannon from titan can one shot warlord as it should. How void shields are knocked down?

In 8th Edition void shields are kind of like an alternate invulnerable save that's only usable at range but works on mortal wounds. The save value gets weaker as you lose wounds, starting at a 3++ for the warlord and reaver and a 4++ for the warhound.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
This has always puzzled me:

The Titan Volcano Cannon, and the Ordinatus Volcano Cannon, are both 7" Blast with the Machine Destroyer special rule.

However, the Shadowsword, which also mounts a Volcano Cannon, is only a 5" Blast with no special rules.

And I'm noticing it again: S30 12 Damage from the other two Volcano Cannons, but my Volcano Cannon is only S16 and 2d6 wounds, and it doesn't get the Mortal Wounds bonus. Considering the Ordinatus is only 700-something points, and the Shadowsword is 500 points, I don't see what the difference is.

The Ordinatus isn't actually all that much more gargantuan than the Shadowsword, too. It's longer by about the length of a Leman Russ. It's bigger, for sure, but not particularly drastically.

I mean, it's not a problem, I like the Shadowsword to not be a hilarious number of points, but I've always wondered why the Shadowsword's gun was so drastically weaker.

Others have answered this, but I'd just like to add to it.

The Volcano Cannon on the Shadowsword and the Reaver are functionally the same weapon, with the Reaver having a 7" blast and the Shadowsword having a 5". Lorewise, the Shadowsword is actually too weak to fully power the weapon, leading to the crew having to stop the tank and redirect almost all of the power output into a massive capacitor bank just to be able to fire it, but it's still not enough for a fully powered shot. The Reaver meanwhile has no such problem and can thus fire it at full power. The Reaver weapon is also sometimes called a Reaver Volcano Cannon, probably signifying that it's different from the Shadowsword one at least in rules, but maybe lorewise as well. The Baneblade vehicles have historically also been on the weaker side.


The Ordinatus Sagittar and the Warlord Titan however do not use a normal Volcano cannon, but instead they use a Belicosa pattern Volcano Cannon, an ancient pattern which is even more destructive and power hungry (with a 10" blast!). The reason for the Ordinatus Sagittar having a full-scale titan weapon is most likely because it is an Ordinatus-class vehicle, with all the extra technology and care coming into that. The Sagittar is also probably too cheap at 700 points when comparing it to both a Shadowsword and a Warlord Titan.

I'd just like to add I'm a bit sad we didn't get rules for the Warlord-Sinister Pattern Battle Psi-Titan, with it's Sinistramanus Tenebrae and psychic powers.

AND for the Conscript discussion: 1150 Conscripts, using the Cadian Shock Troops models, will cost about £2070. A fully equipped Warlord Titan costs £1250. Funny how the Titan is monetarily cheaper per point than the Conscripts.

Chaos Warlord Titan has PL 200 ? 20 Orc Boyz are PL 9, each 10 more are +4. Thats about 500 boyz. They will take it down with axes, swords, cleavers. So ridiculous.

oof, that's monsterous. Good thing you'll never see one on the table, as not many people own one, let alone carry it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

p5freak wrote:
Chaos Warlord Titan has PL 200 ? 20 Orc Boyz are PL 9, each 10 more are +4. Thats about 500 boyz. They will take it down with axes, swords, cleavers. So ridiculous.

No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

I remember one thing: the old, old Emperor Battle Titan rules had it costing 4000 points. This is a blatant example of points inflation!

Of course, that one was mostly considered a joke from GW as there was and will probably never be a model for it.

 JohnU wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I love the absolutely ridiculousness of its rules.

Agree. It all seems appropriate.

for 4000 pts it's appropriate since you can spam 40x quad laser destroyers for the cost and likely kill the thing in 2x turns. Since it does 2d6 dam or 3d6 dam on a 6, str9 ap-4 and costs ~100pts.

However the biggest fw screw up in the giant spawn which is freakin ridiculous for the cost.

p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

That´s the Brave New World we live in. Everything can hurt everything. It would have been a better design, if the Orks were forced to use their melta bomb-equivalent explosives to damage the titan in hth. Greenskins could even use their beloved powerklaws. But no, cleavers designed to make sausages out of pigs are sufficient to sent a WARLORD TITAN to the scrapyard. Well, at least then the Mekboyz can turn it into something better for instance a Gargant or a couple of Stompas.

p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

How do you propose to catch a model that moves 18" a turn in close combat with boyz? Even if we assume the table geometry is in your favour, it's killing 75 a turn on average with shooting without even considering morale. Maybe if you start with it backed into a corner and every squad of boyz in charge range you win, but in a real-game scenario the orks get decimated.

Jesus that Lascutter, stick a chaos lord next to the titan and get re-rolls of a 1 for an average of 36 shots at S12 and 6 damage each!

gungo wrote:
for 4000 pts it's appropriate since you can spam 40x quad laser destroyers for the cost and likely kill the thing in 2x turns. Since it does 2d6 dam or 3d6 dam on a 6, str9 ap-4 and costs ~100pts.

However the biggest fw screw up in the giant spawn which is freakin ridiculous for the cost.

40 laser destroyers actually only get an average of just under three damage dice through its void shields in one round of shooting. Granted those three dice are gonna seriously sting, but it's going first and you better have those models very well spread our the plasma annihilators are going to delete most of them before they shoot.

On a side note, has someone compiled these leaks yet? I can only find scattered images on /tg/.

There's an epub of the Chaos leaks up somewhere but I don't think the full space marine book is up anywhere yet.

 mrhappyface wrote:
On a side note, has someone compiled these leaks yet? I can only find scattered images on /tg/.

A lot of the Forge World ones can be found in the Forge World News & Rumours-thread.

 Strg Alt wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

That´s the Brave New World we live in. Everything can hurt everything. It would have been a better design, if the Orks were forced to use their melta bomb-equivalent explosives to damage the titan in hth. Greenskins could even use their beloved powerklaws. But no, cleavers designed to make sausages out of pigs are sufficient to sent a WARLORD TITAN to the scrapyard. Well, at least then the Mekboyz can turn it into something better for instance a Gargant or a couple of Stompas.

The fact that a 4.000 Warlord Titan vs 4000 points of Conscripts + Commisars and Commanders is not a one-side battle and the conscripts can at least make like 40-50% of his wounds agains't the Titan is a achievement of proper balance to the game.
Anti tank weaponry could kill the Titan for 2.000 in one turn with no problem.

 Galas wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

That´s the Brave New World we live in. Everything can hurt everything. It would have been a better design, if the Orks were forced to use their melta bomb-equivalent explosives to damage the titan in hth. Greenskins could even use their beloved powerklaws. But no, cleavers designed to make sausages out of pigs are sufficient to sent a WARLORD TITAN to the scrapyard. Well, at least then the Mekboyz can turn it into something better for instance a Gargant or a couple of Stompas.

The fact that a 4.000 Warlord Titan vs 4000 points of Conscripts + Commisars and Commanders is not a one-side battle and the conscripts can at least make like 40-50% of his wounds agains't the Titan is a achievement of proper balance to the game.
Anti tank weaponry could kill the Titan for 2.000 in one turn with no problem.

No balance is needed in this scenario. Conscripts are like flies that smash against your car´s windshield. Do you expect it to break? Nevertheless, Warlord vs. Conscripts is a purely academic debate because you will never encounter it on a battlefield. People would have to be crazy to actually buy a Warlord for 40K or even paint such an insane amount of IG cannon fodder.

If my windshield was hit by a a few tonnes of flies I would most likely not want to sit behind it.

But yes, this is just an academic discussion. You will more or less never see a Warlord Titan on a normal table, and on the larger apocalypse ones it will be very difficult for more than a thousand conscripts to ever reach it within a few turns. If there are 48 inches between the deployment zones, you will be able to fire at it during turn 3 at the earliest, and then without rapid fire. In the meantime, how many has the Warlord Titan killed?

Stoked that my Ordinatus can potentially kill a Warlord in one volley.

Sure, the odds aren't exactly in my favour...but man, that thing is gonna wreck face and pretty much just delete enemy Super Heavies,

 Aenarian wrote:
If my windshield was hit by a a few tonnes of flies I would most likely not want to sit behind it.

But yes, this is just an academic discussion. You will more or less never see a Warlord Titan on a normal table, and on the larger apocalypse ones it will be very difficult for more than a thousand conscripts to ever reach it within a few turns. If there are 48 inches between the deployment zones, you will be able to fire at it during turn 3 at the earliest, and then without rapid fire. In the meantime, how many has the Warlord Titan killed?

You presume that all flies hit at once but that is not the case. You can´t physically fit all conscripts in threat range to the Titan. They arrive in human waves.
Yes, terrain and board size plays an important role, too. The battle could take place on a barren landscape without terrain features or the board could be divided by a river with just a few bridges allowing travel to the other side. Imps would be funneled through the bottleneck like lambs to the slaughter. Sadly, all blast templates are gone in 8th.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
If my windshield was hit by a a few tonnes of flies I would most likely not want to sit behind it.

But yes, this is just an academic discussion. You will more or less never see a Warlord Titan on a normal table, and on the larger apocalypse ones it will be very difficult for more than a thousand conscripts to ever reach it within a few turns. If there are 48 inches between the deployment zones, you will be able to fire at it during turn 3 at the earliest, and then without rapid fire. In the meantime, how many has the Warlord Titan killed?

You presume that all flies hit at once but that is not the case. You can´t physically fit all conscripts in threat range to the Titan. They arrive in human waves.
Yes, terrain and board size plays an important role, too. The battle could take place on a barren landscape without terrain features or the board could be divided by a river with just a few bridges allowing travel to the other side. Imps would be funneled through the bottleneck like lambs to the slaughter. Sadly, all blast templates are gone in 8th.

You could definitely compress a vast number of flies into a solid heavy block. Or just having a few meters thick lump of flies which you plow through. I never said anything about the Conscripts though, my reply was only aimed at your fly comment.

But this isn't really relevant and if we want to discuss how many flies it takes to break a windshield we can take that discussion elsewhere.

One day I shall own a Warlord Titan.

But it is not this day. Nor any time soon.

Maybe once I make Ombudsman.

 Strg Alt wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

That´s the Brave New World we live in. Everything can hurt everything. It would have been a better design, if the Orks were forced to use their melta bomb-equivalent explosives to damage the titan in hth. Greenskins could even use their beloved powerklaws. But no, cleavers designed to make sausages out of pigs are sufficient to sent a WARLORD TITAN to the scrapyard. Well, at least then the Mekboyz can turn it into something better for instance a Gargant or a couple of Stompas.

Except its toughness 16 (so 6s to hurt) and 70 wounds with a 2+ save, and it gets 20 attacks a turn against them. And it can disengage, move 18" and shoot them. Keep in mind that it can move over infantry, so even if you surround it its still going to disengage.
It is just not efficient. Not to mention that as you can only fight in two ranks, only a fraction would be able to fight. I don't know how big the titan's base is, so let's say 50.

Not going to factor in ghaz, because that wasn't in the original claim; he just said 500 boyz and then moved the goal posts by adding in force multipliers.
50 * 4 = 200 attacks.
200 * 0.667 = 133 hits
133 * 0.167 = 22 wounds
33*0.167 = about 4 unsaved wounds.

Congrats, you just removed 4 wounds out of 70. Keep doing that for another 20 turns, without taking any casualties or the titan just walking off and shooting you, and I'm sure you'll kill it eventually. You might even hurt the pilot's pride that you scratched the paint off of the titan's foot.
Unless it shoots them off the table with those weapons that deal like 36 hits. Against squads that have a max size of 30. Or a melee attack with 20 attacks resolved at strength 16 and -3 armor.

Now let's see how much damage the titan can do.
First, overwatch.
Assuming that it's armed with, idk, two warlord gatling blasters and a vulcan megabolter

Warlord gatling =
24 * 0.167 = 4 hits
4 * 3 due to weapon ability = 12
12 * 0.83 = 10 wounds

vulcan =

20*0.167 = 3 hits
3 * 0.5 = 1.5 wounds

defense bolters =

12 * 0.33 = 4 hits
4*0.5 = 2 wound

13.5 wounds from overwatch

in cc =

20 * 0.5 = 10
10 * 0.83 = 8.3

8.3 wounds from CC.

So about 22 wounds from overwatch and CC combined. The Warlord outdamages them.

Anyone have a link for the Reaver. My books are ordered, but went with dead tree format not electronic. So it will be a while before I see them.

I'm dubious that it can pull its weight.

Unless facing other Super Heavies, it's pretty much overkill writ large.

Same issue faces my Sagittar. Yes, what ever I point it at is almost certainly going bye-byes. But if I've not got decent targets (probably talking Land Raider upwards) it's just not gonna have a big impact on the game.

Will still field it though, because Ordinatus!

Sounds fun and goofy...I dig it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


No, they won't. 500 boys aren't getting to it it one piece, and the remainder are unlikely to strip 70 of its wounds before dying.
Its almost as if using light infantry to take on a titan is a bad idea and a waste of manpower.

Yes, they will. They dont need to get to it in one piece. Each boy has 4 attacks. They can shoot it with their pistols in CC, too. With Ghahzkull and a Psyker they can have up to 6 attack each, when they charge, and Warpath is cast.

That´s the Brave New World we live in. Everything can hurt everything. It would have been a better design, if the Orks were forced to use their melta bomb-equivalent explosives to damage the titan in hth. Greenskins could even use their beloved powerklaws. But no, cleavers designed to make sausages out of pigs are sufficient to sent a WARLORD TITAN to the scrapyard. Well, at least then the Mekboyz can turn it into something better for instance a Gargant or a couple of Stompas.

Except its toughness 16 (so 6s to hurt) and 70 wounds with a 2+ save, and it gets 20 attacks a turn against them. And it can disengage, move 18" and shoot them. Keep in mind that it can move over infantry, so even if you surround it its still going to disengage.
It is just not efficient. Not to mention that as you can only fight in two ranks, only a fraction would be able to fight. I don't know how big the titan's base is, so let's say 50.

Not going to factor in ghaz, because that wasn't in the original claim; he just said 500 boyz and then moved the goal posts by adding in force multipliers.
50 * 4 = 200 attacks.
200 * 0.667 = 133 hits
133 * 0.167 = 22 wounds
33*0.167 = about 4 unsaved wounds.

Congrats, you just removed 4 wounds out of 70. Keep doing that for another 20 turns, without taking any casualties or the titan just walking off and shooting you, and I'm sure you'll kill it eventually. You might even hurt the pilot's pride that you scratched the paint off of the titan's foot.
Unless it shoots them off the table with those weapons that deal like 36 hits. Against squads that have a max size of 30. Or a melee attack with 20 attacks resolved at strength 16 and -3 armor.

Now let's see how much damage the titan can do.
First, overwatch.
Assuming that it's armed with, idk, two warlord gatling blasters and a vulcan megabolter

Warlord gatling =
24 * 0.167 = 4 hits
4 * 3 due to weapon ability = 12
12 * 0.83 = 10 wounds

vulcan =

20*0.167 = 3 hits
3 * 0.5 = 1.5 wounds

defense bolters =

12 * 0.33 = 4 hits
4*0.5 = 2 wound

13.5 wounds from overwatch

in cc =

20 * 0.5 = 10
10 * 0.83 = 8.3

8.3 wounds from CC.

So about 22 wounds from overwatch and CC combined. The Warlord outdamages them.

All of this just boils down to one question: Should a meat cleaver be able to damage a warmachine the size of a skyscraper? The answer to this question is NO.

If you swing it hard enough, you might make a hole. The lost wound is that hole.Damage the legs enough, and it might fall over due to structural instability. Its an abstraction.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
Various units from the Forge World Chaos and SM indexes have started to make there way onto 4chan and I've been having fun reading up on some of them, but the unit I was most excited for was the Warlord just to see how they would do a vehicle that gigantic. Only the chaos version is available so far since the loyalist warlord is in the AM book which isn't out until the 23rd.

The Warlord is roughly 4000 points, with S and T 16 and 70 wounds and a 2+ save. It has pretty granular damage weakening starting when it hits 60 wounds, but while at full strength it gets a 3++ from void shields and is BS2+. I won't copypaste all the special rules, but suffice to say you're not tying this thing up in close combat, and even if you do it's still going to shoot you.

The titan power fist is S32 and deals an automatic 12 damage at -5 AP, but it's probably better to use the Saturnyne Lascutter which is only a modest S20 (and so still wounds everything short of a Reaver on a 2+) but is otherwise identical and also has a shooting profile with strength 12, 6 damage and as many shots as you can roll consecutive hits (at BS2+, if you're healthy) to a maximum of 12.

Its Quake Cannon is also S20 with 3d6 shots, -5 AP, 6 damage and the ability to halve movement and deny advancing for anything it hits. Its Volcano cannons get S30, -6 AP and 12 damage instead, but only d6 shots - though it does a bonus mortal wound on a to-wound roll of a six. Of the other arm options, the Plasma Annihilator can splash to multiple units and is kind of in between with the profile (but with only S10) but doesn't seem that strong unless it's quite a bit cheaper. The Gatling Blaster is 12 shots, 3 damage and otherwise a battlecannon profile - but hits vs infantry are tripled. Still doesn't seem like it measures up to the other options since you can get double vulcan mega bolters on the shoulders if you really need to dick on infantry, but its fun I guess.

Oh and the Warhound Titan's Inferno gun gets 4d6 autohits at S7 AP-3 D4 so I suspect that's gonna be pretty fun.

Does the Warlord have any weapons that get past Quantum Shielding?

 Mr Morden wrote:

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
Various units from the Forge World Chaos and SM indexes have started to make there way onto 4chan and I've been having fun reading up on some of them, but the unit I was most excited for was the Warlord just to see how they would do a vehicle that gigantic. Only the chaos version is available so far since the loyalist warlord is in the AM book which isn't out until the 23rd.

The Warlord is roughly 4000 points, with S and T 16 and 70 wounds and a 2+ save. It has pretty granular damage weakening starting when it hits 60 wounds, but while at full strength it gets a 3++ from void shields and is BS2+. I won't copypaste all the special rules, but suffice to say you're not tying this thing up in close combat, and even if you do it's still going to shoot you.

The titan power fist is S32 and deals an automatic 12 damage at -5 AP, but it's probably better to use the Saturnyne Lascutter which is only a modest S20 (and so still wounds everything short of a Reaver on a 2+) but is otherwise identical and also has a shooting profile with strength 12, 6 damage and as many shots as you can roll consecutive hits (at BS2+, if you're healthy) to a maximum of 12.

Its Quake Cannon is also S20 with 3d6 shots, -5 AP, 6 damage and the ability to halve movement and deny advancing for anything it hits. Its Volcano cannons get S30, -6 AP and 12 damage instead, but only d6 shots - though it does a bonus mortal wound on a to-wound roll of a six. Of the other arm options, the Plasma Annihilator can splash to multiple units and is kind of in between with the profile (but with only S10) but doesn't seem that strong unless it's quite a bit cheaper. The Gatling Blaster is 12 shots, 3 damage and otherwise a battlecannon profile - but hits vs infantry are tripled. Still doesn't seem like it measures up to the other options since you can get double vulcan mega bolters on the shoulders if you really need to dick on infantry, but its fun I guess.

Oh and the Warhound Titan's Inferno gun gets 4d6 autohits at S7 AP-3 D4 so I suspect that's gonna be pretty fun.

Does the Warlord have any weapons that get past Quantum Shielding?

the megabolters only have a damage characteristic of 2, so they have a 83% chance of bypassing it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you swing it hard enough, you might make a hole. The lost wound is that hole.Damage the legs enough, and it might fall over due to structural instability. Its an abstraction.

Yup.

Chop through cables. See if you can wreck its hydraulics. Even bending the right piece out of shape can cause further structural issues.

All of this just boils down to one question: Should a meat cleaver be able to damage a warmachine the size of a skyscraper? The answer to this question is NO.

An Ork Bike. Something made of scrap, spit, and engines rammed through a Warlord Titan's void shields (which set him on fire) and rammed through the face of the Titan.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you swing it hard enough, you might make a hole. The lost wound is that hole.Damage the legs enough, and it might fall over due to structural instability. Its an abstraction.

There are two philosophies at work here:
1. Everything can hurt everything
Congratulation. You can use all toys in your 40K games. There will never be a situation in which your poorest units like grots or conscripts can´t contribute to the battle. You don´t have melta bombs at hand to blow this scary tank up? Nevermind, a few placed karate chops from your ninja grots will finish this metal behemoth unit off. Yes, I know they won´t strip all wounds by themselves but perhaps one or two.

2. Differentiation between mechanical & organic units:
You need specific weapons to deal with mechanical units. Your grot chops won´t damage a Dreadnought in hth. You should be resourceful enough to think about which weapons you bring to the match. In these games you should talk with your opponent about what kind of units will be fighting in a battle.

I like to play games with philosophy 2 in mind and 2nd enables me to do it.

If you rely on your infantry to kill tanks without the proper equipment in this edition, you are going to have a bad time.
Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.
Try using statistics and actually playing some games. You'll find its not that efficient.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

All of this just boils down to one question: Should a meat cleaver be able to damage a warmachine the size of a skyscraper? The answer to this question is NO.

An Ork Bike. Something made of scrap, spit, and engines rammed through a Warlord Titan's void shields (which set him on fire) and rammed through the face of the Titan.

Ah, Wazdakka from the 4th ed codex. That was hilarious

2. Differentiation between mechanical & organic units:
You need specific weapons to deal with mechanical units. Your grot chops won´t damage a Dreadnought in hth. You should be resourceful enough to think about which weapons you bring to the match. In these games you should talk with your opponent about what kind of units will be fighting in a battle.

Except we have examples of Grots and Snotlings sneaking in through vehicle pipes, exhaust vents, hatches and the like to explode things on the inside. Should we have extra rules on vehicles or the grots/snotlings that they may sneak in, find the bomb supply and start having fun?

Ah, Wazdakka from the 4th ed codex. That was hilarious

It's a reminder that we've had some weird stuff happening in fluff that is barely represented on the tabletop that can happen to vehicles and the like.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you swing it hard enough, you might make a hole. The lost wound is that hole.Damage the legs enough, and it might fall over due to structural instability. Its an abstraction.

Yup.

Chop through cables. See if you can wreck its hydraulics. Even bending the right piece out of shape can cause further structural issues.

There was a part in the book Titanicus that had a titan fighting unsupported against a horde of infantry. They ended up climbing all over the thing, hacking their way into the cockpit and horribly murdering everyone inside. You just have to be a bit more imaginative in your vision of a battle than "they attack its toes".

 Trickstick wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you swing it hard enough, you might make a hole. The lost wound is that hole.Damage the legs enough, and it might fall over due to structural instability. Its an abstraction.

Yup.

Chop through cables. See if you can wreck its hydraulics. Even bending the right piece out of shape can cause further structural issues.

There was a part in the book Titanicus that had a titan fighting unsupported against a horde of infantry. They ended up climbing all over the thing, hacking their way into the cockpit and horribly murdering everyone inside. You just have to be a bit more imaginative in your vision of a battle than "they attack its toes".

It happens in a number of novels - Helsreach an Imperator Titan is invaded by Orks after being trapped.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you swing it hard enough, you might make a hole. The lost wound is that hole.Damage the legs enough, and it might fall over due to structural instability. Its an abstraction.

Yup.

Chop through cables. See if you can wreck its hydraulics. Even bending the right piece out of shape can cause further structural issues.

There was a part in the book Titanicus that had a titan fighting unsupported against a horde of infantry. They ended up climbing all over the thing, hacking their way into the cockpit and horribly murdering everyone inside. You just have to be a bit more imaginative in your vision of a battle than "they attack its toes".

I read that book, too. The traitors in question were specialists (dark mechanicum skitarii or such a thing) trained to fight Titans. They had access to grappling hooks and proper tools to get through that hatch on top of the Titan. Units like grots or conscripts on the other hand could never a ccomplish such a feat. They would die trying to climb that behemoth and don´t have the right equipment at hand to open the hatch. Your swiss army knife just won´t cut it. As I have stated before, you should need the right tools for the job and not just throw some dice at your opponent´s units.

I'm okay with units being able to hurt it (barely) because that simply needs to happen in the game, or no one will play against that unit. Now, conversely, I'd much rather see "armies" of Knights etc. not exist, so that you don't end up with the terrible paper-rock-scissors nonsense of 7th.

What I'm not okay with, is infantry units stopping the movement of a vehicle with the stupid "tarpit" nonsense gamey mechanic.

Regardless of how many infantry models are around the feet of a Titan or even a Knight (or a Land Raider for that matter) they should not impede its movement...that's a stupid gamey mechanic which is abused.

 Elbows wrote:
I'm okay with units being able to hurt it (barely) because that simply needs to happen in the game, or no one will play against that unit. Now, conversely, I'd much rather see "armies" of Knights etc. not exist, so that you don't end up with the terrible paper-rock-scissors nonsense of 7th.

What I'm not okay with, is infantry units stopping the movement of a vehicle with the stupid "tarpit" nonsense gamey mechanic.

Regardless of how many infantry models are around the feet of a Titan or even a Knight (or a Land Raider for that matter) they should not impede its movement...that's a stupid gamey mechanic which is abused.

Gamey Tarpit:
I´ll echo that sentiment. As a whole 8th is better than 7th but some of the new rules are half-baked at best (still no alternating unit selection, fixed hth rolls, morale and other stuff).

You need 5040 lasgun shots to down a warlord.

I mean you can do it but it isn't really realistic.

My god what have I started. It was just a joke at first but the internet sorta went "Challenge Accepted!"

Does it have any kind of rule about weak weapons damaging it? If not you could spam CHEAP S2+ Weapons against it and win. I mean for 3,000 Points I could take 1,000 Grots with S3 Grot Blasts thats 666 Hits wounding on 6s means 111 wounds. Against a 2+ save thats 18 wounds a turn and I have a hard time imagining you being able to kill 1,000 grots in a 6 turn game

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
My god what have I started. It was just a joke at first but the internet sorta went "Challenge Accepted!"

Don´t worry, everyone enjoys this thread tremendously. Do you know by the way the rules for the Ork Gargant? It would interest me how he would fare against the Warlord Titan or even IG Conscripts.

Don't know if the Gargant still has rules but there is the Stompa and presumably the Meka Stompa

SemperMortis wrote:
Does it have any kind of rule about weak weapons damaging it? If not you could spam CHEAP S2+ Weapons against it and win. I mean for 3,000 Points I could take 1,000 Grots with S3 Grot Blasts thats 666 Hits wounding on 6s means 111 wounds. Against a 2+ save thats 18 wounds a turn and I have a hard time imagining you being able to kill 1,000 grots in a 6 turn game

Yeah, it can't. But it comes close.
It has a gun that can inflict up to 36 hits on an infantry squad. It can take two of them, so that's 72 hits.
It also has a pair of weapons called maulers, so that's another 12 hits, and it can take a vulcan gatling, so potential 20 hits.
That's 104 hits. 104 * 6 = 624 hits.
And that's not including the stomps. It only gets 20 though.

Going by its loadout, it seems the Warlord is more intended to fight other titans. It has a lot of options for Macro weapons, and those get double damage against units with the titanic keyword and buildings.
It also means that it can absolutely nuke a monolith


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
My god what have I started. It was just a joke at first but the internet sorta went "Challenge Accepted!"

Don´t worry, everyone enjoys this thread tremendously. Do you know by the way the rules for the Ork Gargant? It would interest me how he would fare against the Warlord Titan or even IG Conscripts.

FW Xenos hasn't been leaked yet, sadly. We might see leaks close to release.
There are rules for the stompa in Xenos Index 2, but it's only PL49, with T8, 40 wounds and the titanic keyword. So the Warlord is just going to nuke it in one turn.
I'm not exaggerating; the quake cannon can deal up to 36 damage against it, and the warlord still has its carapace weapon, its other arm weapon and the maulers left.

Funnily enough, upon closer inspection infantry might actually be the best answer to the warlord, because a lot of its weapons are anti-vehicle and anti-titan.

Funnily enough, upon closer inspection infantry might actually be the best answer to the warlord, because a lot of its weapons are anti-vehicle and anti-titan.

Which is exactly why Warlords are not normally fielded without infantry support - they usually have their own dedicated Skitarri to protect them from such threats.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
My god what have I started. It was just a joke at first but the internet sorta went "Challenge Accepted!"

Don´t worry, everyone enjoys this thread tremendously. Do you know by the way the rules for the Ork Gargant? It would interest me how he would fare against the Warlord Titan or even IG Conscripts.

FW Xenos hasn't been leaked yet, sadly. We might see leaks close to release.
There are rules for the stompa in Xenos Index 2, but it's only PL49, with T8, 40 wounds and the titanic keyword. So the Warlord is just going to nuke it in one turn.
I'm not exaggerating; the quake cannon can deal up to 36 damage against it, and the warlord still has its carapace weapon, its other arm weapon and the maulers left.

Funnily enough, upon closer inspection infantry might actually be the best answer to the warlord, because a lot of its weapons are anti-vehicle and anti-titan.

The Stompa is supposed to be in the weight class of the Warhound/Revenant, not the Warlord/Phantom. Not even the Reaver. That said it's lighter/slower than the Warhound, less killy, and doesn't have the void shields (though a KFF is only worse than a Warhound's void shield for the first five wounds on the Warhound, after that they're the same save or the KFF is better), but it is 2/3rds the price.

(Yes, I know, two Warhounds would still eat three Stompas for lunch.)

(As for infantry being the best answer to the Warlord: the funniest answer to me is giving it Fog of Dreams and drowning it in Harlequins. The stomps' AP and Damage become irrelevant, and they're hitting on 5+ from full health, and the Harlequins have a 4++ it can't do squat about, so it's going to kill three a turn on average rolls. This is, of course, contingent on the special rules page I haven't seen giving it guns-in-melee restrictions more like the Baneblade's (defensive weapons against targets in melee, big guns only against targets not in melee with it) rather than the Warhound's (all guns at anyone all the time), or at least a minimum carapace weapon range the way it's had in prior editions, and not giving people a huge penalty to hit it in melee the way it did in 7th, but if that's the case if you can get 58 Harlequins with Embraces (1,218pts) in range to attack it in melee without dying you can kill it in six turns. (Not factoring in pistol attacks, if you can get some fusion pistols in too it might be a bit faster. Or take fewer Harlequins. Also not factoring in rerolls for either side.))


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Funnily enough, upon closer inspection infantry might actually be the best answer to the warlord, because a lot of its weapons are anti-vehicle and anti-titan.

Which is exactly why Warlords are not normally fielded without infantry support - they usually have their own dedicated Skitarri to protect them from such threats.

Specifically the Secutarii. You know, the Secutarii Titan Guard.

(They're called that because they guard Titans, not because they guard Titan. No connection to the Grey Knights.)

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Don't know if the Gargant still has rules but there is the Stompa and presumably the Meka Stompa

That´ a shame. I fondly remember Epic, where Gargants could fire their unique gutbuster belly guns. These huge cannonballs were the bane of Squat Colossi, Land Trains and Titan legs. You practically played bowling on a battlefield. Simply hilarious. Were rules for the gutbuster belly gun ever published for 40K? I guess for 8th this weapon system would be less impressive because templates are gone.

Hmm, so anything less than S9 is wounding it on 6 anyway, and with 3+ invuln, AP is useless against it.

So your options are pretty much S9/10 multiwound, a volcano cannon, or completely ignoring your weapon profile in favor of throwing as many dice as possible to fish for 6s. Or mortal wounds, 4000 points of Deathstrikes vs one Warlord? 4000 points of psykers tossing Smite (and suicide-bombing with Perils)?

Though, I think some big 'nid monsters can get more than S10 by taking Crushing Claws (2xUser strength). Of course, until you get to 16+ there's no difference from S9... the volcano cannon being exactly S16 and re-rolling wounds against Titans is perfect though.

Something this extreme makes for some very amusing mathhammer.

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, so anything less than S9 is wounding it on 6 anyway, and with 3+ invuln, AP is useless against it.

So your options are pretty much S9/10 multiwound, a volcano cannon, or completely ignoring your weapon profile in favor of throwing as many dice as possible to fish for 6s. Or mortal wounds, 4000 points of Deathstrikes vs one Warlord? 4000 points of psykers tossing Smite (and suicide-bombing with Perils)?

Though, I think some big 'nid monsters can get more than S10 by taking Crushing Claws (2xUser strength). Of course, until you get to 16+ there's no difference from S9... the volcano cannon being exactly S16 and re-rolling wounds against Titans is perfect though.

Something this extreme makes for some very amusing mathhammer.

Or 4000 points of Biovores shooting spore mines at it?

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, so anything less than S9 is wounding it on 6 anyway, and with 3+ invuln, AP is useless against it.

So your options are pretty much S9/10 multiwound, a volcano cannon, or completely ignoring your weapon profile in favor of throwing as many dice as possible to fish for 6s. Or mortal wounds, 4000 points of Deathstrikes vs one Warlord? 4000 points of psykers tossing Smite (and suicide-bombing with Perils)?

Though, I think some big 'nid monsters can get more than S10 by taking Crushing Claws (2xUser strength). Of course, until you get to 16+ there's no difference from S9... the volcano cannon being exactly S16 and re-rolling wounds against Titans is perfect though.

Something this extreme makes for some very amusing mathhammer.

There are actually a few really big things that can get a Strength that'd be silly under normal circumstances. Defilers, Imperial Knights, and Wraithknights are all S8 with access to x2-Strength melee weapons so they'd wound it on 4+. And Singing Spears/Witchblades would still auto-wound it on 2+, though with no AP that wouldn't be much help. And Hammerhand would make GK wound it on 5+ in melee, though as far as I can tell there's no way to make their attacks S9+ so no wounding it on 4+.

I do like the idea of pointing the new conversion beamers at it, too. Outside of 48" they're Strength 12 and dealing 4d3 damage (though if "for every 24"" means "for every full 24"" they're only Strength 10 dealing 3d3 damage), and you can get them on Rapiers at a very reasonable price. And depending on whether the Sicaran Venator's to-hit penalty stacks with other Venators you may just be able to pummel it into being unable to hit (though since five different Venators have to be able to deal at least one unsaved wound each from full health the crossover from "maybe" to "probably" (70%) is 28 Venators, which while amusing do cost 364 PL, are an incredibly heavily tailored list, and are just going to drop the thing in two volleys anyway (with sponson lascannons), assuming you have enough Venators left after the Titan's opening volley to still have 28 to shoot with.).

Keep in mind that it still gets saves against mortal wounds

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Keep in mind that it still gets saves against mortal wounds

571 Ratling snipers in squads of 3 is still a great idea!

My buddy brought up the idea of throwing Scarabs upon Scarabs at it since they will wound it on 5+ due to their special rule (if we read it correctly).

SemperMortis wrote:
Does it have any kind of rule about weak weapons damaging it? If not you could spam CHEAP S2+ Weapons against it and win. I mean for 3,000 Points I could take 1,000 Grots with S3 Grot Blasts thats 666 Hits wounding on 6s means 111 wounds. Against a 2+ save thats 18 wounds a turn and I have a hard time imagining you being able to kill 1,000 grots in a 6 turn game

Now calculate how many of those gretchin can get within 12" so they can shoot it.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Don't know if the Gargant still has rules but there is the Stompa and presumably the Meka Stompa

That´ a shame. I fondly remember Epic, where Gargants could fire their unique gutbuster belly guns. These huge cannonballs were the bane of Squat Colossi, Land Trains and Titan legs. You practically played bowling on a battlefield. Simply hilarious. Were rules for the gutbuster belly gun ever published for 40K? I guess for 8th this weapon system would be less impressive because templates are gone.

There was the "Belly Cannon" on the Kill Bursta, that basically liquefied infantry. It was something like blast radius 3d6.

240 Lascannon shots, not counting for degradation of the void shields.

Though Smite does Mortal wounds, so 30ish successful Smites unless I'm missing something. What's the cheapest "Deep Striking" psyker?

Is the 4000 points of the Warlord counting it's weapons? 40 Bare bones Librarians in 4 Drop Pods are pretty close to killing it in a round, I think.

 Insectum7 wrote:
240 Lascannon shots, not counting for degradation of the void shields.

Though Smite does Mortal wounds, so 30ish successful Smites unless I'm missing something. What's the cheapest "Deep Striking" psyker?

Is the 4000 points of the Warlord counting it's weapons? 40 Bare bones Librarians in 4 Drop Pods are pretty close to killing it in a round, I think.

The void shield save still works against mortal wounds, so you'd need more than 30 smites to bring it down. Mortal wounds are probably still the most efficient way to hurt it though, and if we assume you have 44 super cheap chaff units to to enable putting so much in reserves I think the librarians are the closest to killing it anyone has suggested, assuming a realistic table size and scenario.

It's 4k points exactly regardless of which guns it's kitted with, and I'm inclined to believe there is nothing at that points level which comes close to killing it in a turn without having the scenario skewed heavily against the titan somehow.

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Keep in mind that it still gets saves against mortal wounds

571 Ratling snipers in squads of 3 is still a great idea!

Impossible. You cannot cleanly divide 571 by 3. That would give you 190.33

 Elbows wrote:
I'm okay with units being able to hurt it (barely) because that simply needs to happen in the game, or no one will play against that unit. Now, conversely, I'd much rather see "armies" of Knights etc. not exist, so that you don't end up with the terrible paper-rock-scissors nonsense of 7th.

What I'm not okay with, is infantry units stopping the movement of a vehicle with the stupid "tarpit" nonsense gamey mechanic.

Regardless of how many infantry models are around the feet of a Titan or even a Knight (or a Land Raider for that matter) they should not impede its movement...that's a stupid gamey mechanic which is abused.

WMH had the same problem in its first edition, so they added the Trample power attack. I fully expect to see something similar appear in 40k at some point.

 Elbows wrote:
I'm okay with units being able to hurt it (barely) because that simply needs to happen in the game, or no one will play against that unit. Now, conversely, I'd much rather see "armies" of Knights etc. not exist, so that you don't end up with the terrible paper-rock-scissors nonsense of 7th.

What I'm not okay with, is infantry units stopping the movement of a vehicle with the stupid "tarpit" nonsense gamey mechanic.

Regardless of how many infantry models are around the feet of a Titan or even a Knight (or a Land Raider for that matter) they should not impede its movement...that's a stupid gamey mechanic which is abused.

The titan isn't stopped by infantry though.
Read its special rules.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The titan isn't stopped by infantry though.
Read its special rules.

Well it still can't end it's move on top of enemy models, so it isn't too hard to give it nowhere to go. A titan needs to be on a very large base if you don't want it to fall over.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
240 Lascannon shots, not counting for degradation of the void shields.

Though Smite does Mortal wounds, so 30ish successful Smites unless I'm missing something. What's the cheapest "Deep Striking" psyker?

Is the 4000 points of the Warlord counting it's weapons? 40 Bare bones Librarians in 4 Drop Pods are pretty close to killing it in a round, I think.

The void shield save still works against mortal wounds, so you'd need more than 30 smites to bring it down. Mortal wounds are probably still the most efficient way to hurt it though, and if we assume you have 44 super cheap chaff units to to enable putting so much in reserves I think the librarians are the closest to killing it anyone has suggested, assuming a realistic table size and scenario.

Well the reserves rule is only for matched play, so is this Warlord showing up in a tournament? Or maybe this winds up being a mixed force of Ratlings and Librarians.

It's 4k points exactly regardless of which guns it's kitted with, and I'm inclined to believe there is nothing at that points level which comes close to killing it in a turn without having the scenario skewed heavily against the titan somehow.

Impotant question then, can Void Shields be brought down with Null Zone? Or are Void Shields bypassed in CC, as in earlier editions?

Void Shields do not work in CC, no.

Void Shields do not work in CC, and they are not an invulnerable save so Null Zone has no effect.

 Aenarian wrote:
Void Shields do not work in CC, and they are not an invulnerable save so Null Zone has no effect.

Can you clarify that last part? OP seemed to suggest Void Shields are an invuln save because they are a "3++" at full strength.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
Void Shields do not work in CC, and they are not an invulnerable save so Null Zone has no effect.

Can you clarify that last part? OP seemed to suggest Void Shields are an invuln save because they are a "3++" at full strength.

It is referred to as a unique type of saving throw on the data sheet. Ergo not an invul.

https://i.redd.it/oby0epn7p34z.png

Yep. Key phrase:

can opt to use instead of their normal save or invulnerable save

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
Void Shields do not work in CC, and they are not an invulnerable save so Null Zone has no effect.

Can you clarify that last part? OP seemed to suggest Void Shields are an invuln save because they are a "3++" at full strength.

It is referred to as a unique type of saving throw on the data sheet. Ergo not an invul.

https://i.redd.it/oby0epn7p34z.png

Oh awesome, thanks!

Melissia wrote:Yep. Key phrase:

can opt to use instead of their normal save or invulnerable save

Ahh yes.

Although the other mportant bit is the part that says it can take void shields against mortal wounds, that really stfles the Librarian Smite Brigade.

Which leads me to believe that cheap as dirt AP -1 is the way to go with shooting, preferably with an Eldar Doom on the Warlord to double-ish the number of wounds you put on it.

Or some sort of banzai melee attack.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

The titan power fist is S32 and deals an automatic 12 damage

Necron laught at this with Quantum Shielding

 Xyxel wrote:

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

The titan power fist is S32 and deals an automatic 12 damage

Necron laught at this with Quantum Shielding

It seems to me that a massive number of Ghost Arks may not be a non-viable solution to the titan. Stupid Quantum Shielding.

riiiiiiiiiiiight up until the 40 shot twin mega bolter comes into play

Actually, i think the Warlord is screwed. It appears that at max, it can engage 9 units a turn. 8 from shooting, and one from charging. Plus its Void shields drop to a 4++ after only 11 wounds. By my math it takes about 1500 points of autocannon havocs to take it to the 4+, and then i think you want to switch to lascannon havocs and start pounding it down.

I think the Warlord will lose to an attrition army with a ton of smaller units.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Actually, i think the Warlord is screwed. It appears that at max, it can engage 9 units a turn. 8 from shooting, and one from charging. Plus its Void shields drop to a 4++ after only 11 wounds. By my math it takes about 1500 points of autocannon havocs to take it to the 4+, and then i think you want to switch to lascannon havocs and start pounding it down.

I think the Warlord will lose to an attrition army with a ton of smaller units.

The Sunfury Plasma Annihilator has a 50% chance to also hit each unit within 6" of the target so it depends on the board. On an infinitely large board the Warlord will beat anything that can't deep strike handily with a 30 foot range and 18" move, so you'd need something small enough to force it within range of the havocs but larger enough to allow spreading them all way apart. It can also charge multiple units and tie them all in combat (because let's face it, it's going to have a massive base) which denies those units shooting while not affecting its own ability to blast you.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:


The Sunfury Plasma Annihilator has a 50% chance to also hit each unit within 6" of the target so it depends on the board. On an infinitely large board the Warlord will beat anything that can't deep strike handily with a 30 foot range and 18" move, so you'd need something small enough to force it within range of the havocs but larger enough to allow spreading them all way apart. It can also charge multiple units and tie them all in combat (because let's face it, it's going to have a massive base) which denies those units shooting while not affecting its own ability to blast you.

If it were on a base it'd be hard to hit more than 2 units, you hit the first then pivot to touch another and then I think you're stuck.

And hey, whose playing on an infinite board? The game starts when the troopers spring their ambush on the Titan

Regardless, I think small units is the way to go since you force overkill on the Titan, and keep the game up for a few turns while the thing degrades.

Or play for objectives with 121 individual units of Chaos Spawn.