Talking with a local GW person last night I mentioned that i am greatly anticipating plastic Sisters of Battle.
To my surprise he said at a store managers meeting/conference in October they brought them up. He said they told everyone that "We know plastic Sisters are one of the most asked for items, and while they cannot say anything right now, look to the Summer"
Has anyone else heard or seen this mentioned anywhere?
I don't know man, given the reaction of the community to the news yesterday I think the last thing GW is thinking about releasing is more 'power armour'.
The only thing I can offer is to confirm the Dark Imperium Boxed set is being killed off, and a new [as yet unknown to me] starter boxed set is coming out.
Unfortunately, it could just as easily be custodes vs deamons, but I think they've missed a trick with that one, so maybe it'll be a Summer Sister's Vs box.
I would love plastic Sisters of Battle. Saint Celestine has got to me my favourite release of last year. If we could have an army done to that standard, I’d be very happy.
Man... I really want to believe but... can't anybody post a leaked pic or something...? Like the one of the Primaris Marine nearly a year in advance that splited dakkadakka in half between "is legit" and "is a conversion"?
An Actual Englishman wrote: I don't know man, given the reaction of the community to the news yesterday I think the last thing GW is thinking about releasing is more 'power armour'.
If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I don't know man, given the reaction of the community to the news yesterday I think the last thing GW is thinking about releasing is more 'power armour'.
Not really -it will depend on how AC sell.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Don’t forget, when they teaser the Magnus release in the dumpster, they also mentioned plastic Sisters. No rule about when they have to be released...then again, that could have been in reference to St. Celestine.
timetowaste85 wrote: Don’t forget, when they teaser the Magnus release in the dumpster, they also mentioned plastic Sisters. No rule about when they have to be released...then again, that could have been in reference to St. Celestine.
AlexHolker wrote: If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
GW does seem to be working on getting all armies a new codex out. They are mixing up releases without models and ones with models though.
Primaris Marines, well vanilla marines are both a seller, and provide a base for the various spin-offs, so lots of kits.
CSM could have used new kits, but it seems that GW used them as a base and is focusing on the 4 god specific legions first.
Grey Knights have a nearly full plastic range.
Death Guard were the other starter army and got a decent range of plastic kits.
IG/AM are nearly all plastic at this point (minus ratlings, some characters, and some advisors)
AdMech also could have used a few kits, but their range is entirely plastic.
Craftworlds really could have used new kits. But they are a major and popular xenos army, so got a codex to cover them.
Nids only need one or two kits and their range is entirely plastic.
BA and DA both use the new Vanilla marine kits as a base, and got a character each, and they are done.
DAemons are getting Nurgle kits to fill out their range.
Custodes are adding to the range to bring them up in uinit count.
Thousand Sons is just a codex with no new models, just repurposed ones.
After that, Tau and Necrons have nearly full plastic ranges, and could get away with a codex plus clampack or two.
Deathwatch and Space Wolves just need to add the primaris kits, and then likely a lieutenant plus upgrade sprue like the BA/DA
Dark Eldar are mostly plastic, but could use more characters and additions to the range.
Orks are popular, but need a decent number of kits in plastic.
Harlequins and Ynnari could both be expanded like Custodes into fuller ranges.
Legion of the Damned are not plastic at all, but could be merged into Imperial Agents with Sisters of Silence, Assassins, and Inquisition.
Angron, World Eaters, and some Khorne heralds/dogs seems like a likely codex later on.
Same with Fulgrim, Emperor's Children, Keeper of Secrets, and Slaaneshi kits.
Sisters of Battle have a great interest builder in Celestine, plus long term fans, but are an entire range from scratch.
Well he did say this was in October. He said the Managers all went nuts when they said it and it was a big thing.
I kinda find it hard to believe someone would not have said something sooner which is why I asked if it’s been mention before, but he just seemed so matter of fact and from what I can tell is a straight shooter.
GW would rather release 10 more codexes then a whole line of models that need revamped. I will believe it when I see it but after 4 years or so of waiting most people just bought / built/ converted/ or made an alternative sisters army. People have wanted them years ago... GW's response was *crickets* and now granted they do have the people's ear but their bottom line is why put all the money into making models when all they need to do is make a codex they can add 4-7 new pages to slap the filler from somewhere else and sell it for college text book prices... instant profit. No need to pay designers, sculptors, casters, etc... all of that costs them money. The more GW says they change the more they stay the same. Pile on the massive pile of books and supplements and call it a day. Hopefully Star Wars Legion will rock their socks off and make them have to go back to making models because something sure needs to.
I went all in on the Raging Heroes sci fi sisters army several years back. ANd it took them all of two years to fullfill their KS. But with it in hand they still beat GW to the punch.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I don't know man, given the reaction of the community to the news yesterday I think the last thing GW is thinking about releasing is more 'power armour'.
Sisters of Battle have an absolute immunity to that except to the saltiest of fethwads.
No faction in the game is in more dire need of support than SoB (except Inquisition) and anyone who would begrudge them their first real releases in 20yrs isn't doing it because they're 'power armor' or 'Imperium' it's because they don't care about anything else but their faction getting new toys.
At that point it goes from (honestly at least somewhat righteous) indignation to full on selfishness.
I ONLY play SoB now that 8th has dropped and I have been waiting so long I've saved up 1200$ for release day and I wasn't even mad at custodes and I certainly wouldn't be mad if DE, Tau, Orkz, Nids, CWE, GSC, or w/e got their stuff first. (I'm no saint though, I'm gonna be irratated everytime new chaos stuff or marine stuff comes out but I let that go fairly quickly)
MajorWesJanson wrote: GW does seem to be working on getting all armies a new codex out. They are mixing up releases without models and ones with models though.
Primaris Marines, well vanilla marines are both a seller, and provide a base for the various spin-offs, so lots of kits.
CSM could have used new kits, but it seems that GW used them as a base and is focusing on the 4 god specific legions first.
Grey Knights have a nearly full plastic range.
Death Guard were the other starter army and got a decent range of plastic kits.
IG/AM are nearly all plastic at this point (minus ratlings, some characters, and some advisors)
AdMech also could have used a few kits, but their range is entirely plastic.
Craftworlds really could have used new kits. But they are a major and popular xenos army, so got a codex to cover them.
Nids only need one or two kits and their range is entirely plastic.
BA and DA both use the new Vanilla marine kits as a base, and got a character each, and they are done.
DAemons are getting Nurgle kits to fill out their range.
Custodes are adding to the range to bring them up in uinit count.
Thousand Sons is just a codex with no new models, just repurposed ones.
After that, Tau and Necrons have nearly full plastic ranges, and could get away with a codex plus clampack or two.
Deathwatch and Space Wolves just need to add the primaris kits, and then likely a lieutenant plus upgrade sprue like the BA/DA
Dark Eldar are mostly plastic, but could use more characters and additions to the range.
Orks are popular, but need a decent number of kits in plastic.
Harlequins and Ynnari could both be expanded like Custodes into fuller ranges.
Legion of the Damned are not plastic at all, but could be merged into Imperial Agents with Sisters of Silence, Assassins, and Inquisition.
Angron, World Eaters, and some Khorne heralds/dogs seems like a likely codex later on.
Same with Fulgrim, Emperor's Children, Keeper of Secrets, and Slaaneshi kits.
Sisters of Battle have a great interest builder in Celestine, plus long term fans, but are an entire range from scratch.
I think this is a pretty good assessment of the state of play. Depending on your echo chamber of choice, the Custodes either caused a huge backlash caused by the crushing disappointment of more power armour, or was greater with whoops of joy by the majority of players who love all things Imperium. According to some reported conversations from people who were at the open day, the motivation for expanding the Custodes line was how well the first kit has sold. Time will tell if the rest of the range sells well too (although I suspect it will).
At this point I can understand the players of many seemingly neglected armies wanting new releases. I don’t think they’re going to get them though. Jes Goodwin himself said in his last Warhammer TV interview, that many older ranges are pretty much finished and the designers are interested in making new things, not just new versions of old things. If I remember correctly, the last time a fine cast infantry kit (ie not a character) was simply replaced with an identical plastic one, was the Dark Eldar wracks. That was how many years ago now? There was the Harlequins, but that was more about expanding what was pretty much a single unit and a couple of characters into a full blown army with their own vehicles etc. GW’s apparent unwillingness to repeat the process with aspect warriors and such like, might be an indication that they just don’t think it’ll be worth the cost.
That leaves Sisters in the position of being not exactly new, but old metal minis being something that GW is probably less enthusiastic about keeping in production than resin ones. Saint Celestine was very well received on the whole and has renewed interest in the Sororitas. I’d say it’s a near certainty that we will get plastic Sisters of Battle eventually, and probably before we get plastic aspect warriors or Astra Militarum that don’t look awful.
angel of death 007 wrote: GW would rather release 10 more codexes then a whole line of models that need revamped. I will believe it when I see it but after 4 years or so of waiting most people just bought / built/ converted/ or made an alternative sisters army. People have wanted them years ago... GW's response was *crickets* and now granted they do have the people's ear but their bottom line is why put all the money into making models when all they need to do is make a codex they can add 4-7 new pages to slap the filler from somewhere else and sell it for college text book prices... instant profit. No need to pay designers, sculptors, casters, etc... all of that costs them money. The more GW says they change the more they stay the same. Pile on the massive pile of books and supplements and call it a day. Hopefully Star Wars Legion will rock their socks off and make them have to go back to making models because something sure needs to.
I highly doubt the books make as much profit as you think they do. Individual margins may be fantastic, but players only ever need 1 and they're dead easy to pirate/go without (you can easily get by with battlescribe and a detailed review video. It's a roll of the dice at tournies but you can do it.)
I think the main profit of books is when they get people to buy more/different models to fill out their forces, and SoB won't have that bump anymore. People who played SoB in seventh bought most of the models in the book for the two main army builds at the time, and everything that wasn't good then is good now.
And I doubt you follow the webstore for SoB much but they've been selling at or near their production capacity (very very small relative to plastic stuff) for months. Even if a book DID increase sales, they couldn't meet demand without adding pewter casting equipment(which they don't want).
MonkeyBallistic, Plague Marines were finecast. The same for Beasts of Nurgle. GW is still redoing old finecast infantry, etc... with new Plastic sprues.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
You realize right that the backlash can have ZERO EFFECT to the summer release? Those were decided already like half a year ago! By now basically entire this year's schedule is decided and rolling along. It would be way too late to change because of what happened this weekend. ESPECIALLY next release. Hah! What? You think they are going to release NOTHING next just to postpone next release for later to avoid further backlash? You realize how much nothing to release next release slot would cost them in terms of money? Too much for it to be worth it. Even if it would be possible which it likely isn't.
It's not like GW is sitting on bunch of releases thinking "what to release next week?" and somehow get all the decided releases in stores in ready. Oh no. They have large lead times. While they have SOME leeway generally things don't get changed on a whim as it costs bloody lot of money to do so.
Galas wrote: MonkeyBallistic, Plague Marines were finecast. The same for Beasts of Nurgle. GW is still redoing old finecast infantry, etc... with new Plastic sprues.
They also like adding new weapon options/dual kits when they update them as well, so it isn't a direct update.
Galas wrote: MonkeyBallistic, Plague Marines were finecast. The same for Beasts of Nurgle. GW is still redoing old finecast infantry, etc... with new Plastic sprues.
They also like adding new weapon options/dual kits when they update them as well, so it isn't a direct update.
Yeah, to "force" people to buy new kits. But as long as they don't make ilegal the old options I'm fine with that.
This "backlash" won't stop them selling a lot of gold UberMarines and gold spray. So I don't think a few days of internet noise will affect anything much or affect likelihood of any particular releases.
AlexHolker wrote: If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
Look at the models GW sells again and then tell me with a straight face that aliens are more 'distinctive and unique' within the context of 40k than women. Aliens are a dime a dozen, women are exceedingly rare.
And like I said before, anybody who has the audacity to begrudge a sisters of battle release on the grounds of "they got theirs before I got mine" is just being cruel.
Galas wrote: MonkeyBallistic, Plague Marines were finecast. The same for Beasts of Nurgle. GW is still redoing old finecast infantry, etc... with new Plastic sprues.
True, but my point was more about replacing finecast minis with plastic that looks exactly the same. The Death Guard release is more like the Harlequins in that they’ve been, to some extent, redesigned and vastly expanded upon. That’s very different from just making plastic Howling Bansees which look just like the resin Howling Banshees. I understand that some people want that, I just don’t think they’re going to get it.
If they redo aspect warriors in Plastic they will have a strong change in aesthetic but respecting the originals, I agree, just like with Plague Marines.
That will mean, many people will hate the new sculpts. But that always happen. Thats why personally, even waiting for Sisters of Battle, I have mentalized myself with the fact that, probably, they will look very different to what they look now. Or maybe not? Because Celestine is very conservative. I'll prefer that approach. But they can redesign some units like the Repentia, and do with them what they did with the DE Mandrakes.
AdmiralHalsey wrote: The only thing I can offer is to confirm the Dark Imperium Boxed set is being killed off, and a new [as yet unknown to me] starter boxed set is coming out.
Unfortunately, it could just as easily be custodes vs deamons, but I think they've missed a trick with that one, so maybe it'll be a Summer Sister's Vs box.
Any wanna buy 34 "box" halves? Start a brand new "box" army for cheap!
For real though this would be totally amazing AND syncs up with some older rumors I've heard.
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Galas wrote: If they redo aspect warriors in Plastic they will have a strong change in aesthetic but respecting the originals, I agree, just like with Plague Marines.
That will mean, many people will hate the new sculpts. But that always happen. Thats why personally, even waiting for Sisters of Battle, I have mentalized myself with the fact that, probably, they will look very different to what they look now. Or maybe not? Because Celestine is very conservative. I'll prefer that approach. But they can redesign some units like the Repentia, and do with them what they did with the DE Mandrakes.
The new Celestine model is so fantastic in that regard. I recognized her INSTANTLY as Celestine and then spent a while going over all the stuff that carried over from the old one and how they modernized it without losing the soul of what made her Celestine.
What they should do is bring sisters back down to a custodes/sisters of silence/deathwatch level army, function as an allied force mainly, and in doing this release a battle sisters kit. Then slowly expand over the years to bring them back up to a full army standard, like they are starting to do with custodes. Plastic basic sisters will sell well as many people will want them (even I would, and I detest sisters mainly because of whinging sisters players) and just start working from there.
It will appease the fans, long term sisters players will be able to play and expand their army with the new kit and the index and then just start the process of completely updating the army from there on a slow burn.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
You realize right that the backlash can have ZERO EFFECT to the summer release? Those were decided already like half a year ago! By now basically entire this year's schedule is decided and rolling along. It would be way too late to change because of what happened this weekend. ESPECIALLY next release. Hah! What? You think they are going to release NOTHING next just to postpone next release for later to avoid further backlash? You realize how much nothing to release next release slot would cost them in terms of money? Too much for it to be worth it. Even if it would be possible which it likely isn't.
It's not like GW is sitting on bunch of releases thinking "what to release next week?" and somehow get all the decided releases in stores in ready. Oh no. They have large lead times. While they have SOME leeway generally things don't get changed on a whim as it costs bloody lot of money to do so.
I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated.
Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases. These projects have long lead times sure but it's not like they work on one at a time. There could be ten or twenty ongoing projects at any one time with various stages of 'completion'. All GW would need to do is shift there resources to another project and halt one to change up their schedule, something I think a company of their magnitude would be able to do.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated
Anticipiated or when GW had said they would be released? You realize players anticipiating does not mean it's going to be released then...
Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases.
Basic logic? Kits sitting in warehouse COST MONEY TO THE GW! You really think they are BURNING MONEY DELIBERATELY just to have some shuffle room with release schedule for internet whining? Seriously? Not to mention they need to then after decision get those kits from warehouses to stores...
Generally companies hate keeping stuff in warehouse longer than required. Ideally they would have NONE WHATSOEVER in warehouses with all the production going immediately to stores to be sold but since that's not possible they have warehouses. But they sure don't keep big pile of products to shuffle around based on internet whining which is not even true representation of customer bases. Any company obeying whining at the internet would be pretty stupid seeing unhappy ones are always loudest leading to seriously inaccurate image if you just rely on that.
Azreal13 wrote: My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?
I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.
He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: What they should do is bring sisters back down to a custodes/sisters of silence/deathwatch level army, function as an allied force mainly, and in doing this release a battle sisters kit. Then slowly expand over the years to bring them back up to a full army standard, like they are starting to do with custodes. Plastic basic sisters will sell well as many people will want them (even I would, and I detest sisters mainly because of whinging sisters players) and just start working from there.
It will appease the fans, long term sisters players will be able to play and expand their army with the new kit and the index and then just start the process of completely updating the army from there on a slow burn.
This would be suicide for the line. One new kit wouldn't bring new players in and a single plastic battle sisters kit would get an incredibly tepid response from SoB players as most wouldn't see a significantly compelling reason to upgrade. It kind of worked with custodes and SoS because there were no other options...and they had HH stuff too. If it was a new kit, everyone who plays sisters would buy 1 or 2 and then things would be exactly same as they are now except with 1 new index entry.
It would also be met by either indifference or anger by the fans as it's basically a 'feth yourself' to the people who've waited this long for SoB.
Basically it's a good goddam thing you're not on GW's strategy team...or are you? Because I'm thinking you might be the guy who told them 'AoS outta fricken nowhere!' Was a good idea.
And hey! You detest Sisters for the same reason I detest Chaos!
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Bulldogging wrote: Well I play thousand sons and admech, so I've got mine...but feel free to call me salty, as I love Chinese food and beef jerky.
I still think more power armor is bad for the game(not the same thing as bad for profits).
Yeah yeah, but they are girls(trademark). Just another flavor of marine.
Interesting coming from someone who plays 'blue marines' and '4+ save' marines.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated
Anticipiated or when GW had said they would be released? You realize players anticipiating does not mean it's going to be released then...
Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases.
Basic logic? Kits sitting in warehouse COST MONEY TO THE GW! You really think they are BURNING MONEY DELIBERATELY just to have some shuffle room with release schedule for internet whining? Seriously? Not to mention they need to then after decision get those kits from warehouses to stores...
Generally companies hate keeping stuff in warehouse longer than required. Ideally they would have NONE WHATSOEVER in warehouses with all the production going immediately to stores to be sold but since that's not possible they have warehouses. But they sure don't keep big pile of products to shuffle around based on internet whining which is not even true representation of customer bases. Any company obeying whining at the internet would be pretty stupid seeing unhappy ones are always loudest leading to seriously inaccurate image if you just rely on that.
I work for a manufacturer in the UK and I can guarantee that we sit on certain releases for a long time until the timing is considered best. Completely different products and markets but still relevant I think.
Basic project management, as I explained prior, means that organisations tend to have more than one project ongoing at any one time, a number of which can be shuffled around to meet requirements. The longer the lead time the more projects tend to be ongoing and the less flexibility they have in manipulating this to suit customers' needs.
"A couple of people whining" yesterday are significantly more than those asking for plastic sisters. Significantly more.
When was the last time GW updated an army with just one Kit, excluding Clampack characters? They have introduced a number of armies with a boxed set (Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Adeptus Custodies, Sister of Silence) and then turned around and expanded with a full release (or Forge World releases), but not just put out one kit and called it good.
They will certainly leave Sisters alone until they can do a full on release of at least Harlequin, Cult Mechanicus, or Skitarri size. That's just their MO for new army or army upgrade releases.
I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)
An Actual Englishman wrote: I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated
Anticipiated or when GW had said they would be released? You realize players anticipiating does not mean it's going to be released then...
Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases.
Basic logic? Kits sitting in warehouse COST MONEY TO THE GW! You really think they are BURNING MONEY DELIBERATELY just to have some shuffle room with release schedule for internet whining? Seriously? Not to mention they need to then after decision get those kits from warehouses to stores...
Generally companies hate keeping stuff in warehouse longer than required. Ideally they would have NONE WHATSOEVER in warehouses with all the production going immediately to stores to be sold but since that's not possible they have warehouses. But they sure don't keep big pile of products to shuffle around based on internet whining which is not even true representation of customer bases. Any company obeying whining at the internet would be pretty stupid seeing unhappy ones are always loudest leading to seriously inaccurate image if you just rely on that.
I work for a manufacturer in the UK and I can guarantee that we sit on certain releases for a long time until the timing is considered best. Completely different products and markets but still relevant I think.
Basic project management, as I explained prior, means that organisations tend to have more than one project ongoing at any one time, a number of which can be shuffled around to meet requirements. The longer the lead time the more projects tend to be ongoing and the less flexibility they have in manipulating this to suit customers' needs.
"A couple of people whining" yesterday are significantly more than those asking for plastic sisters. Significantly more.
Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.
And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.
Galas wrote: I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)
Space skaven. Radiation in place of warp stone radiation. Even the way the rust stalkers and infiltrators attack in the codex is skaven like, and the expendable servitors etc. They are imperial though which is obviously almost as big a problem as power armor.
I do play blue dusty golem Marines though, no doubt. And I say this with sincerity, I would be fine with thousand sons getting removed for more xenos and non power armor. feth, I'd even trade half of the existing power armor factions for one more xenos.
Galas wrote: I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)
In the past maybe but with how 'gunliney' marines have gotten i'd say it's shifted back over.
They even have clear analogues: Tread robots=Hellblasters; Big robots=Centurions (even both have melee options!) Redemptor=Dunecrawler Guillamen= Cawl...it goes on.
They're basically the same army except one's harder to paint.
Azreal13 wrote: My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?
I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.
He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.
Well, of course he wouldn't, would he?
There's several factors that are going to work against you here, firstly, this is the nth "plastic Sisters are totes on the way" thread, and, Celestine aside, no other thread has ever come to anything. Secondly, "the local GW guy told me" is about as unreliable a source as the local crack addled hobo, and finally, GW don't tend to share as far ahead of time with the great unwashed of their retail masses as this, typically even big news like new editions or games are revealed at short notice meetings only days or a few weeks ahead of release. Not October for a summer release.
None of this makes it impossible, of course, but anyone should be dumping salt all over this until/unless there's something corroborating from some place else.
Galas wrote: I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)
Space skaven. Radiation in place of warp stone radiation. Even the way the rust stalkers and infiltrators attack in the codex is skaven like, and the expendable servitors etc. They are imperial though which is obviously almost as big a problem as power armor.
I do play blue dusty golem Marines though, no doubt. And I say this with sincerity, I would be fine with thousand sons getting removed for more xenos and non power armor. feth, I'd even trade half of the existing power armor factions for one more xenos.
And that's fine, but you're not trying to trade YOUR army for Xenos atm, you're trying to trade MINE. And that's quite rude.
Azreal13 wrote: My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?
I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.
He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.
Well, of course he wouldn't, would he?
There's several factors that are going to work against you here, firstly, this is the nth "plastic Sisters are totes on the way" thread, and, Celestine aside, no other thread has ever come to anything. Secondly, "the local GW guy told me" is about as unreliable a source as the local crack addled hobo, and finally, GW don't tend to share as far ahead of time with the great unwashed of their retail masses as this, typically even big news like new editions or games are revealed at short notice meetings only days or a few weeks ahead of release. Not October for a summer release.
None of this makes it impossible, of course, but anyone should be dumping salt all over this until/unless there's something corroborating from some place else.
Taking a conversation someone had with a GW store manager with a grain of salt is probably wise, and I can understand that the internet is full of trolls, but not everyone is a Troll.
I even indicated in my earlier posts in this thread I was hoping someone had heard something similar and asked as such.
Azreal13 wrote: My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?
I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.
He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.
Well, of course he wouldn't, would he?
There's several factors that are going to work against you here, firstly, this is the nth "plastic Sisters are totes on the way" thread, and, Celestine aside, no other thread has ever come to anything. Secondly, "the local GW guy told me" is about as unreliable a source as the local crack addled hobo, and finally, GW don't tend to share as far ahead of time with the great unwashed of their retail masses as this, typically even big news like new editions or games are revealed at short notice meetings only days or a few weeks ahead of release. Not October for a summer release.
None of this makes it impossible, of course, but anyone should be dumping salt all over this until/unless there's something corroborating from some place else.
Honestly, it's kinda fun getting these sort of rumors. Like setting traps for santa. You know you'll never catch anything but at least there's a journey!
At least until the hatedom comes out...speaking of; sayonara everyone, got what I needed from this. See you at the LVO reveal!
ERJAK wrote: Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.
And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.
There were more negative comments that positive ones regarding the custodes so I don't think there are more people excited. Might be wrong. Certainly don't know. Neither do you. Not sure where you got the 20% of people pissed about custodes are still going to buy them either? That makes quite literally no sense.
I feel like you're taking this personally, I couldn't care less if plastic SOB are released or not, I got like a ton of Orks to paint anyways so I'm set. I'm just speculating as to the likelihood of plastic sisters in Summer, which, as I've said, I think is unlikely. Might be wrong. Who knows, who cares?
ERJAK wrote: Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.
And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.
There were more negative comments that positive ones regarding the custodes so I don't think there are more people excited. Might be wrong. Certainly don't know. Neither do you. Not sure where you got the 20% of people pissed about custodes are still going to buy them either? That makes quite literally no sense.
I feel like you're taking this personally, I couldn't care less if plastic SOB are released or not, I got like a ton of Orks to paint anyways so I'm set. I'm just speculating as to the likelihood of plastic sisters in Summer, which, as I've said, I think is unlikely. Might be wrong. Who knows, who cares?
Galas wrote: I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)
Space skaven. Radiation in place of warp stone radiation. Even the way the rust stalkers and infiltrators attack in the codex is skaven like, and the expendable servitors etc. They are imperial though which is obviously almost as big a problem as power armor.
I do play blue dusty golem Marines though, no doubt. And I say this with sincerity, I would be fine with thousand sons getting removed for more xenos and non power armor. feth, I'd even trade half of the existing power armor factions for one more xenos.
And that's fine, but you're not trying to trade YOUR army for Xenos atm, you're trying to trade MINE. And that's quite rude.
My wording was bad, by remove I mean consolidate. Put sisters into a big book of "not marine...Marines" with some of the other imperial stuff. Thousand sons back into "spikey marine...Marines". Etc. The game has too many "full range" humans in power armor.
Don't worry though, chances of them removing a power armor army is next to 0. If anything I'd expect primaris sisters. Then people can have normal girl marines next to roided girl marines being reinforced by gold ubermarines-not Marines, plus some random color ubermarines, with allied normal Marines, with some silver not marine-marines.
ERJAK wrote: Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.
And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.
There were more negative comments that positive ones regarding the custodes so I don't think there are more people excited. Might be wrong. Certainly don't know. Neither do you. Not sure where you got the 20% of people pissed about custodes are still going to buy them either? That makes quite literally no sense.
I feel like you're taking this personally, I couldn't care less if plastic SOB are released or not, I got like a ton of Orks to paint anyways so I'm set. I'm just speculating as to the likelihood of plastic sisters in Summer, which, as I've said, I think is unlikely. Might be wrong. Who knows, who cares?
Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.
The Adeptus Custodies video has (as of my last check) 41,659 View with 349 Likes and 25 Dislikes. So the 93% Like versus dislike means the world loves this upcoming release right? YouTube doesn't lie!
Is this the first "Sisters of Battle are coming!" thread of 2018? At least if it does happen this year OP can say they got the ball rolling!
If what some have said here on Dakka and elsewhere is true, that they're choosing to expand the model lines that sell well, and are preferring to create new models rather than remake old ones, it's not a good outlook for a lot of armies.
It feels like the reason a lot of these other armies don't sell as well compared to say Space Marines, is that they don't receive nearly the same level of exposure and new releases. Remember when Orks were in the starter kit for 40k, Black Reach or whatever? I don't have any numbers but I'd bet a ton of people started Ork armies then, just as we've seen a ton of people starting Death Guard armies nowadays.
tl;dr, from the outside, it seems like a vicious cycle that's keeping the less popular armies down. Though I'm hardly the first person to think so.
AlexHolker wrote: If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
The 'backlash' while loud, isn't representative of the community, and I'm pretty sure GW knows this very well. Listening to their customers isn't the same thing as "listen to their very vocal internet customer". GW has had a banner year, and no amount of internet grumbling ius going to make them "reconsider" a winning business plan. Not talking about anyone in particular here, but It always amazes me the degree to which people over-estimate the impact their forum and facebook tantrums are going to have.
tneva82 wrote: Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.
Once sales results come in it's a little late, don't you think? Not sure why you think they'd be wrong to change their schedule based on feedback either?
ImAGeek wrote: The amount of dissent against something on the internet ultimately doesn’t prove anything.
Well it kinda does. Particularly when we look at other announcements that have been met with much more favourable responses. If every announcement GW made was like the one yesterday I would be sitting here agreeing with you both, but the fact is - it was entirely different. The reaction from the community was significantly more negative than "normal" (whatever that is) and I think it's that which speaks volumes.
AlexHolker wrote: If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
The 'backlash' while loud, isn't representative of the community, and I'm pretty sure GW knows this very well. Listening to their customers isn't the same thing as "listen to their very vocal internet customer". GW has had a banner year, and no amount of internet grumbling ius going to make them "reconsider" a winning business plan. Not talking about anyone in particular here, but It always amazes me the degree to which people over-estimate the impact their forum and facebook tantrums are going to have.
How can you say that the backlash of the community isn't representative of said community? It makes no sense. The success of GW last year was down to a number of factors but one huge contributing factor was the "new GW" shtick through an excellent marketing and social media strategy. Not only was this marketing strong but the interaction with the community was positive. Yesterday was not.
tneva82 wrote: Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.
Once sales results come in it's a little late, don't you think? Not sure why you think they'd be wrong to change their schedule based on feedback either?
Sales data is there at the end of march. Then they can change schedule which if they put emergency calls will be visible late fall.
Changing schedule based on internet whining would mean they would be burning money changing plans always as complains are always loudest. If thev just listen internet everything they do is wrong. Complainers migh' change but complains are always loudest.
With year plus lead times such fickle changes are bad ldeas and then what when sales prove you wrong? You burned monev, change isn't even on stores for months and you need to change again. Gg. If you were at charge of gw it would be bankrupt at no time
ImAGeek wrote: It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.
You have evidence to prove this is the minority then?
We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
tneva82 wrote: IIf thev just listen internet everything they do is wrong.
But wait....aren't people on the internet largely responsible for telling GW that they need to make plastic Sisters? Don't you want plastic Sisters?! But if they listen to the internet everything they do is wrong?! Dat paradox life.
Prestor Jon wrote: We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
You misunderstood what I meant by "minority". Just because a group is being vocal, that does not necessarily make it the "minority" in terms of it's feelings on a particular topic.
The number of people posting negative feedback online is representative (as you've said) of their entire customer base. The more people that are posting negatively online, the more people in their customer base that are unhappy. Their customer base hasn't suddenly increased overnight. Do the maths.
tneva82 wrote: Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.
Once sales results come in it's a little late, don't you think? Not sure why you think they'd be wrong to change their schedule based on feedback either?
ImAGeek wrote: The amount of dissent against something on the internet ultimately doesn’t prove anything.
Well it kinda does. Particularly when we look at other announcements that have been met with much more favourable responses. If every announcement GW made was like the one yesterday I would be sitting here agreeing with you both, but the fact is - it was entirely different. The reaction from the community was significantly more negative than "normal" (whatever that is) and I think it's that which speaks volumes.
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AlexHolker wrote: If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
The 'backlash' while loud, isn't representative of the community, and I'm pretty sure GW knows this very well. Listening to their customers isn't the same thing as "listen to their very vocal internet customer". GW has had a banner year, and no amount of internet grumbling ius going to make them "reconsider" a winning business plan. Not talking about anyone in particular here, but It always amazes me the degree to which people over-estimate the impact their forum and facebook tantrums are going to have.
How can you say that the backlash of the community isn't representative of said community? It makes no sense. The success of GW last year was down to a number of factors but one huge contributing factor was the "new GW" shtick through an excellent marketing and social media strategy. Not only was this marketing strong but the interaction with the community was positive. Yesterday was not.
I think you need to revisit what the word 'representative' means. The majority of the people who play 40K aren't crying into their Cheerios because the new release is Custodes, nor do those same people care much about the plastic sisters, or about the ratio of Xenos to Power Armor kits. The people who do care about that stuff are the hardcore fans who post a lot on sites like this one. The hardcore players are in no way at all 'representative' of the hobby in general though.
tneva82 wrote: IIf thev just listen internet everything they do is wrong.
But wait....aren't people on the internet largely responsible for telling GW that they need to make plastic Sisters? Don't you want plastic Sisters?! But if they listen to the internet everything they do is wrong?! Dat paradox life.
Prestor Jon wrote: We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
You misunderstood what I meant by "minority". Just because a group is being vocal, that does not necessarily make it the "minority" in terms of it's feelings on a particular topic.
The number of people posting negative feedback online is representative (as you've said) of their entire customer base. The more people that are posting negatively online, the more people in their customer base that are unhappy. Their customer base hasn't suddenly increased overnight. Do the maths.
There was as much, if not more, negativity literally the other day when no models were shown at the end of the AoS Malign Portents countdown. There was much more negativity a couple of years ago when AoS was announced. There’s negativity for every release because you can’t please everyone.
ImAGeek wrote: It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.
You have evidence to prove this is the minority then?
We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
It’s just a product of the unfortunate tendency of humans to give more credence to people who agree with them and assume they’re in the majority. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about this release. I’ve also seen a lot of people very excited about it. The general feeling I get from Instagram feed is that people tend to be positive about most releases, are almost uniformly positive about well sculpted minis, whatever they might be and negative about poorly sculpted ones and most of the things I see being painted are new releases. Ultimately that only tells me something about the people I choose to follow though.
I’ve no evidence to say how prevalent either opinion of Custodes is. We’ll know that Custodes were a big success if, in a few years time, the expand the range with new kits.
The reason I think Sisters are getting more and more likely to happen though, is the impression that GW give these days, that (with the exception of marines) big new releases make them more money than tinkering with already well supported ranges.
Fenris-77 wrote: I think you need to revisit what the word 'representative' means. The majority of the people who play 40K aren't crying into their Cheerios because the new release is Custodes, nor do those same people care much about the plastic sisters, or about the ratio of Xenos to Power Armor kits. The people who do care about that stuff are the hardcore fans who post a lot on sites like this one. The hardcore players are in no way at all 'representative' of the hobby in general though.
I disagree entirely. I think the fanbase is made up of extremely passionate, "hardcore" fans and I think they are without question representative of the hobby. This hobby (in my experience anyway) lends itself to a certain type of person who is, for lack of a better word, obsessive. I think this is partly due to the massive barrier to entry in terms of cost (not just models, paints, glue etc), time and learning (the rule sets have never been the most intuitive). These combined factors often mean that once someone is in 40k, they're "all in".
ImAGeek wrote: There was as much, if not more, negativity literally the other day when no models were shown at the end of the AoS Malign Portents countdown. There was much more negativity a couple of years ago when AoS was announced. There’s negativity for every release because you can’t please everyone.
In that case I may be wrong. I didn't see this particular announcement so I couldn't say. I would say that AoS and 40k have slightly different markets but there is no question they are massively interlinked. Fair point.
I can corroborate my own store manager said something similar to the OP's story about the Sisters coming up at the meeting.
But he didn't say anything about the Summer, the rest sounded close to how he told it though - just that his own was GW is aware people want it, but no more than that.
He also said it was literally the first question. And is pretty much always the first question at the Manager meetings.
I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
Chamberlain wrote: I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
Maybe they can rename Sisters of Battle to Adepta Sororitas or something similar...
I think there will need to be further changes. The sort of corset style, fleur-de-lis, bob haircuts and the like is just super generic. I think it's possible that when and if we ever do get plastic sisters they won't be compatible with the metal ones. They'll look as different as Kasrkin and Tempestus Scions do.
How can you say that the backlash of the community isn't representative of said community? It makes no sense. The success of GW last year was down to a number of factors but one huge contributing factor was the "new GW" shtick through an excellent marketing and social media strategy. Not only was this marketing strong but the interaction with the community was positive. Yesterday was not.
[/spoiler] I think you need to revisit what the word 'representative' means. The majority of the people who play 40K aren't crying into their Cheerios because the new release is Custodes, nor do those same people care much about the plastic sisters, or about the ratio of Xenos to Power Armor kits. The people who do care about that stuff are the hardcore fans who post a lot on sites like this one. The hardcore players are in no way at all 'representative' of the hobby in general though.
Yeah. As shocking concept as it might be the forum users are actually MINORITY of players(or other hobbyists like movie goers, ice hockey fans etc). Most players will just buy, paint and play and not bother putting anything on forums or even read. Probably like 70%+ don't even know there's such a thing as forum for them or even if they know there are can't name one! It's just nature of beast not all are INTERESTED in forums.
Then even if you are in forum most just idle around reading. From forum users only minority are actually active posters(this forum admins probably could give good statistics on that! The ones I have been on moderating team however were always so). And when you are angry about something you make much more posts than when you are happy. Happy ones might not even post anything! They just buy their new products and play and go "cool!".
As weird as it might sound to active forum user not all are interested in being active forum user And unhappiness is more likely to be put to words. That is seen in real life everywhere. If you relied on internet you might think world is ending and everybody is miserable, in trouble, workless and doomed.
No chance of this happening, but I’m sure at least a thousand people will be posting grumpy rants on the internet when GW inevitably releases a new kind of even more elite Space Marine instead of Sisters.
The same sort of armour style as the Tempestus scions or some of the armour plates on the mechanicus stuff. Where the embellishments have hints of fleur-de-lis but are not obviously just French national symbols. And the type of armour plates on scions would work great for an obviously female form.
Goth chick space nuns with fleur de lis? That's probably gone for good.
Chamberlain wrote: I think there will need to be further changes. The sort of corset style, fleur-de-lis, bob haircuts and the like is just super generic. I think it's possible that when and if we ever do get plastic sisters they won't be compatible with the metal ones. They'll look as different as Kasrkin and Tempestus Scions do.
Quite possible. Though GW probably considers that acceptable casualty. There probably aren't THAT much old players with existing players who will refuse to buy them for that(some would likely upgrade to new army or still use them side by side) that if it results in better models that attract NEW players for SoB that would be major win for GW.
MajorWesJanson wrote: We have the Geminae Superia that come with Celestine as a good baseline for what new Sisters of Battle would look like.
That's a very good point. They're sort of AoS looking. Stormcast style knee plates and the edges of their other armour plates are also in that style. The fleurs are more sytlized but mostly still there on the shoulder. Though they have a wide variety of iconography with skulls, imperial "I" symbols, aqullas and stuff. They still have the corset thing and bob haircut (both of which I actually really like).
I would really like it if they did a sisters box or two that covered the different squad types in that same style.
Chamberlain wrote: Actually, I think that might be it. The same sort of armour style as the Temestus scions or some of the armour plates on the mechanicus stuff. Where the embellishments have hints of fleur-de-lis but are not obviously just French national symbols. And the type of armour plates on scions would work great for an obviously female form.
Goth chick space nuns with fleur de lis? That's probably gone for good.
Possibly, but Celestine and her two chums are already rocking the old look. If I was In charge of the design team at GW, I’d make them more copyrightable by diversifying the range, just like Death Guard aren’t just Plague Marines, but also poxwalkers, blighthaulers, drones etc.
I’m wish listing, but I’d love to see an Ecclesiarchy army with Sisters as the core troops. Add in penitent engines, arco flagellants, crusaders, mobile cathedral like vehicles etc and you’ve got something more distinctive than just power armoured women.
Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Apparently, yes. According to an interview with GW at open day by Chapter Master Valrak, Custodes sold really well, so GW decided to release them as a whole army.
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Apparently, yes. According to an interview with GW at open day by Chapter Master Valrak, Custodes sold really well, so GW decided to release them as a whole army.
But didn't the special edition resin canoness and the Celestine triple pack sell like hot cakes too?
It seems to me like everyone is shouting for SOB. Even the GW store managers.
So where are they? Instead we have Custodes.
I can understand why people are frustrated and angry.
This dance has been going on for years.
Chamberlain wrote: I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
That is stupid, and whatever idiot at GW came up with it should have been fired. If you care whether your IP is protectable or not, why abandon it without a fight? All that means is that everyone except you gets to exploit the IP you have built up over decades, while you slink off empty handed.
Much more importantly than begging, people actually bought Custodes in surprising quantities. GW cares very much about who's actually buying what, not so much about internet ranting.
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Maybe Stormcast Eternals are selling really well, so maybe GW thinks people want gold marines in 40K now. Or maybe they need to sell all those gold cans of spray paint that are not selling so maybe GW thinks this will help them sell that stock.
Or we are back to we don't know what GW is thinking and their logic behind it.
Fenris-77 wrote: Much more importantly than begging, people actually bought Custodes in surprising quantities. GW cares very much about who's actually buying what, not so much about internet ranting.
I think its always sales first, and then feedback second. Which is good.
People bought up the custodes in BoP, and the 30k sets have probably sold well. Gw knows Custodes will sell, and start design work for 8th.
Gw releases triumvirate with celestine, and internet freaks out. GW sees this, and starts redesign of Sisters for 8th, based on what they hear.
Seems the most likely plan/procedure, assuming they intend to release SoB.
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Maybe Stormcast Eternals are selling really well, so maybe GW thinks people want gold marines in 40K now. Or maybe they need to sell all those gold cans of spray paint that are not selling so maybe GW thinks this will help them sell that stock.
Or we are back to we don't know what GW is thinking and their logic behind it.
Except that they explicitly said that the reason is because they were surprised how well the first Custodes kit sold. No need for any other twists of logic. They made a thing. It sold well. They’re making more things like it.
Tonhel wrote: How reliable is the rumour that Dark Imperium will be discontinued and if true is there an ETA?
AdmiralHalsey wrote: My source for the discontinuation of the Dark Imperium Box is extremely reliable.
Of plastic sisters I can make no comment.
I'm a stockist and Dark Imperium is no longer on the mandatory stockist list as of 1st of Jan 2018. I don't know if it has been discontinued or not but there has always been a mandatory "starter box" for stockists for the past 20 years. So regardless if the box is getting discontinued or not it does seem VERY likely that a new box is coming to replace is. My guess would be more fricken Spheezee Mehreenez vs xxx...
As for a Sisters box, about 6 months before the Genestealer Cults were revealed there was a rumour of a Sisters vs Unknown box. Don't remember where I read the rumour but it said it was Sisters vs an army that wasn't in the game at that time. Sisters vs Genestealer cult does make sense as there has been a few books and short stories released about the two fighting each other. Sisters are the least represented book range from BL but suddenly 2 books pop up with Sisters vs Genestealers?
Verviedi wrote: No chance of this happening, but I’m sure at least a thousand people will be posting grumpy rants on the internet when GW inevitably releases a new kind of even more elite Space Marine instead of Sisters.
I think that an actual codex and plastic SoB release will generate more grumpy rants among SoB players than the lack of plastic SoB and codex ever has. Too many unexpections and preconceived ideas for a release that will be aimed at attracting new SoB players and not at satisfying the handful of existing players.
Verviedi wrote: No chance of this happening, but I’m sure at least a thousand people will be posting grumpy rants on the internet when GW inevitably releases a new kind of even more elite Space Marine instead of Sisters.
I think that an actual codex and plastic SoB release will generate more grumpy rants among SoB players than the lack of plastic SoB and codex ever has. Too many unexpections and preconceived ideas for a release that will be aimed at attracting new SoB players and not at satisfying the handful of existing players.
Rules wise maybe. There are always a number of people who complain if rules change. Models wise though, if they are of the same standard as Celestine and her buddies, I can’t imagine anyone being unhappy.
Verviedi wrote: No chance of this happening, but I’m sure at least a thousand people will be posting grumpy rants on the internet when GW inevitably releases a new kind of even more elite Space Marine instead of Sisters.
I think that an actual codex and plastic SoB release will generate more grumpy rants among SoB players than the lack of plastic SoB and codex ever has. Too many unexpections and preconceived ideas for a release that will be aimed at attracting new SoB players and not at satisfying the handful of existing players.
Rules wise maybe. There are always a number of people who complain if rules change. Models wise though, if they are of the same standard as Celestine and her buddies, I can’t imagine anyone being unhappy.
I can tell you're relatively new around here. A 2mm scale change should be enough to generate at least 5 pages of complaints and debate, before we even get to any new design concepts.
I dunno where people are getting the idea that Sisters are "generic" from. They have some generic elements as part of their overall design, sure, but so do the Stormcast Eternals who might as well be subtitled "Adeptus Trademarkicus".
Where are all these other instances of space-goth warrior nuns with handheld GMGs, bob haircuts, and power-corsets trotting around burninating heretics? Because the only ones I can think of are comparatively tiny third-party miniature makers emulating the existing SoB aesthetic - I've never seen anything like them in mainstream pop culture or in nerdy pop culture(disclaimer - I don't watch anime).
I have no doubt they'd look slightly different to - and be in a more modern scale than - the original metals, but that's just down to more modern tech and them being plastics, there's no rational reason they have to undergo a radical redesign even if you adopt modern GW's hyper-paranoid mindset over IP, the worst they'd have to suffer are some ridiculous new unit names.
dan2026 wrote: But didn't the special edition resin canoness and the Celestine triple pack sell like hot cakes too?
It seems to me like everyone is shouting for SOB. Even the GW store managers.
So where are they? Instead we have Custodes.
I can understand why people are frustrated and angry.
This dance has been going on for years.
Well celestine sold together with 2 other models so it's harder to estimate(though to be fair much of custodes sales are also hidden among MKIII marines). Anyway if they used that as measurement and decided because the "3 characters in 1 box" sold so well due to celestine that there's enough demand...Well if that's the moment they put in project sisters of battle release summer would be actually pretty feasible moment for release. So that would actually make this rumour stronger. Not that I have much faith of random GW worker knowing this far ahead. Generally they don't know any more than general hobbyists until last moment.
Wishlisting here but I'd be setting aside a fair amount of funds if there was even the slightest firm hint of Sisters. My nipper would be going barefoot to school if there was a Sanctuary 101 Starter or even boxed game like Overkill or Calth.
If there was a slight design change from my original metals I wouldn't be too bothered. Astartes have different armour marks.
Honestly if Dark Imperium is being "discontinued" it's probably just to take the huge rulebook out the box and replace it with a basic rules pamphlet so the price can be dropped.
Fenris-77 wrote: Much more importantly than begging, people actually bought Custodes in surprising quantities. GW cares very much about who's actually buying what, not so much about internet ranting.
Because they're brand-new modern plastics that have been well-designed, and also came bundled in a box with a lot of other new plastics that were sold for a bargain. Compared to GW expecting you to spend a whopping $80 on a single box of ten basic troop models that are literal decades out of date now, with no options, in a material that people don't like to work with, direct-only from GW so you get little to no discount on top of all that.
Not really a fair comparison. No one would buy Custodes either if they were sold in a similar fashion. In fact people would probably accuse GW of sabotaging the line and wanting it to fail if they tried.
Wishlisting here but I'd be setting aside a fair amount of funds if there was even the slightest firm hint of Sisters. My nipper would be going barefoot to school if there was a Sanctuary 101 Starter or even boxed game like Overkill or Calth.
If there was a slight design change from my original metals I wouldn't be too bothered. Astartes have different armour marks.
Yeah I have a large collection of GW sisters plus various non GW versions.
I still will be happy to immdiately drop a few hundred to get them on day one - maybe more if its a big range, that money is there waiting.
Chamberlain wrote: I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
That is stupid, and whatever idiot at GW came up with it should have been fired. If you care whether your IP is protectable or not, why abandon it without a fight? All that means is that everyone except you gets to exploit the IP you have built up over decades, while you slink off empty handed.
That's so true!
The general appearance of Celestine in the Triumverate set gives me hope that I'm wrong about any possible future sisters changing that much.
I think Celestine and her pals are the biggest reason to believe that the plastic sisters are coming. They already have most of the CAD stuff done and can proceed to the money printing phase.
I would probably buy new SoB if they were released, and I would absolutely buy a starter set that included them. I collect all the starter sets, though.
Buuuut how many times have we heard that a Sisters release was imminent?
If there's a new starter, I want it to be Guard for Imperium. Every regiment needs updated infantry and static pose snapfit models are fine for Guard because the majority of their infantry carry lasguns. The problem is GW would pick Cadians again, when something like Steel Legion vs Orks would be fun.
That said, I wouldnt mind a Sisters vs GSC box as it would be the perfect excuse to start collecting both.
Sisters as the 'good' side in the starter set could be a good double whammy for GW. One, finally making good on new Sisters models and two, proving they are willing to not just put Space Marines in every starter set.
Galas wrote: Sisters of Battle in a starter set, I believe is too wishlisting... if this was Fantasy, where starter had variety of armies, ok... but in 40k?
Galas wrote: Man... I really want to believe but... can't anybody post a leaked pic or something...? Like the one of the Primaris Marine nearly a year in advance that splited dakkadakka in half between "is legit" and "is a conversion"?
Galas wrote: Sisters of Battle in a starter set, I believe is too wishlisting... if this was Fantasy, where starter had variety of armies, ok... but in 40k?
Yeah, but this is *new* GW now. I think that we were officially told that GW is moving to a new release model, right? Where we will see multiple iterations of starter boxes (which we haven’t seen yet); mini releases no longer tied to codexes (which we have seen); and more narrative campaigns (which, again, we’ve already started to see).
Sisters in a starter would make great opponents for a number of potential foes. With Slaanesh coming out this year, sisters would make a good contrasting force. Piousness vs wanton excess.
Starter sets are mainly for... people who start. Sisters aren't a starter army, neither is GSC. It would be hazardous if not stupid for GW to do something like that.
That said, I could see them releasing a board game and later a codex, like they did with Overkill.
Dryaktylus wrote: Starter sets are mainly for... people who start. Sisters aren't a starter army, neither is GSC. It would be hazardous if not stupid for GW to do something like that.
That said, I could see them releasing a board game and later a codex, like they did with Overkill.
Is either army really less of a "starter army" than Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, CSM or Death Guard?
Dryaktylus wrote: Starter sets are mainly for... people who start. Sisters aren't a starter army, neither is GSC. It would be hazardous if not stupid for GW to do something like that.
That said, I could see them releasing a board game and later a codex, like they did with Overkill.
I'm curious, what armies would you say are "starter armies" other than vanilla marines? Guard?
Dryaktylus wrote: Starter sets are mainly for... people who start. Sisters aren't a starter army, neither is GSC. It would be hazardous if not stupid for GW to do something like that.
That said, I could see them releasing a board game and later a codex, like they did with Overkill.
Is either army really less of a "starter army" than Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, CSM or Death Guard?
Yes. DE and DG are a bit, well, 'special' too, but not that much. And keep in mind that a starter set will have Space Marines in it. So either we'll see a squad of Sisters alongside them (I doubt it) or not at all.
Talking with a local GW person last night I mentioned that i am greatly anticipating plastic Sisters of Battle.
To my surprise he said at a store managers meeting/conference in October they brought them up. He said they told everyone that "We know plastic Sisters are one of the most asked for items, and while they cannot say anything right now, look to the Summer"
Has anyone else heard or seen this mentioned anywhere?
Could we have some rumor quality control here? We need some kind of sources for rumors or they're just hot air.
Talking with a local GW person last night I mentioned that i am greatly anticipating plastic Sisters of Battle.
To my surprise he said at a store managers meeting/conference in October they brought them up. He said they told everyone that "We know plastic Sisters are one of the most asked for items, and while they cannot say anything right now, look to the Summer"
Has anyone else heard or seen this mentioned anywhere?
Could we have some rumor quality control here? We need some kind of sources for rumors or they're just hot air.
"Talking with a local GW person..."
Rumours don't need proper citations. That'd be news.
I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set. They would play a lot like Marines do, I would think (just with more fire). In any case there's nothing about them that's so far beyond understanding or comprehension that it would be off-putting to a new player.
The most difficult thing to wrap your head around would be the fact that there's a woman inside the power armor instead of a man.
But any army can be a "starter" army, though, really. That's the point of the "Start Collecting" boxes, isn't it?
Well biggest problem with sisters being in starter set is that SoB vs marines doesn't make sense. So at best it would be marines AND SoB vs something else(Chaos presumably). While possible there's not been such an combo side for starter sets yet so that's quite a leap of logic...
More likely SoB release is just codex+models rather than starter set being involved anywhere.
Sidstyler wrote: I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set.
Easy to build, easy to paint, main faction, 'those are cool, I want to play them' effect. And Space Marines as mandatory Imperial faction.
Sidstyler wrote: But any army can be a "starter" army, though, really. That's the point of the "Start Collecting" boxes, isn't it?
Starting new armies is one thing. Starting the game another. Do I want a box with Sisters, GSC, Xenos mercenaries, IG veterans, Gue'vesa and Skitarii? Hell, yes. But would it sell enough to justify the risk? Would it attract enough new players? I don't think so.
In all seriousness though. Talon of the Emperor and Saint Celestine both debuted sister type models so it isn't out of the range of possibilities. But I tend to agree I think they will do something like they did for Overkill and do a boardgamish intro. Worked great for GSC.
Orks are a great starting point for an army. Even in the build and collect series geared toward a younger crowd they are going with marines and orks granted the old designs from black reach but still. With what they did with the new dark imperium i could see them doing like they did last year with the limited edition boxes. Space wolves vs orks, Blood Angels vs nids... only one i didn't get was harliquins vs whoever they had. But those were repacks basically of models with new hero models included so not sure how well that would work for Sisters who don't have plastic models yet.
I would hope for sisters vs orks just so I could have the sisters and all the stuff that comes in the ork box besides the boyz. I'd sell those boys and add new toys to my grot list
tneva82 wrote: Well biggest problem with sisters being in starter set is that SoB vs marines doesn't make sense. So at best it would be marines AND SoB vs something else(Chaos presumably). While possible there's not been such an combo side for starter sets yet so that's quite a leap of logic...
More likely SoB release is just codex+models rather than starter set being involved anywhere.
It would make sense if it were Sisters vs Grey Knights.....
Galas wrote: Sisters of Battle in a starter set, I believe is too wishlisting... if this was Fantasy, where starter had variety of armies, ok... but in 40k?
Yeah, but this is *new* GW now. I think that we were officially told that GW is moving to a new release model, right? Where we will see multiple iterations of starter boxes (which we haven’t seen yet); mini releases no longer tied to codexes (which we have seen); and more narrative campaigns (which, again, we’ve already started to see).
Sisters in a starter would make great opponents for a number of potential foes. With Slaanesh coming out this year, sisters would make a good contrasting force. Piousness vs wanton excess.
God damn it, you made it through my anti-wishlisiting defences. Sisters vs Slaanesh would be amazing and would cost me so much money, as those are the two armies I'm ready to go all in on....
Sidstyler wrote: I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set.
Easy to build, easy to paint, main faction, 'those are cool, I want to play them' effect. And Space Marines as mandatory Imperial faction.
Sidstyler wrote: But any army can be a "starter" army, though, really. That's the point of the "Start Collecting" boxes, isn't it?
Starting new armies is one thing. Starting the game another. Do I want a box with Sisters, GSC, Xenos mercenaries, IG veterans, Gue'vesa and Skitarii? Hell, yes. But would it sell enough to justify the risk? Would it attract enough new players? I don't think so.
I always giggle when I read stuff like this - I only spend inadvisable amounts of money on 40K and have for years because Little Me walked into the local GW to buy some Empire Halberdiers with my pocket money and instead walked out with the new Sisters of Battle codex with that stunning JB piece as the cover art.
People - GW included - vastly over estimate the power of Marines to entice new players relative to other factions. There's a certain threshold of "cool" you have to meet in order to get a potential new recruit to buy-in emotionally, and Marines absolutely do exceed that threshold, but I'm fairly sure so do future-goth bondage battle nuns, and cyborg men with giant robots, and a lot of other 40K things. Like a lot of scenarios when it comes to GW, "Marines mean the starter sells well" is a self-fulfilling prophecy; the starters always include Marines, and the starters always sell well, so they always put Marines in the starter and on & on.
Now, maybe it would turn out that literally no other faction in 40K is capable of shifting starter sets, but there's no way to actually know that until they release one that doesn't include Marines. I don't think they actually will, but unless & until it happens there's no basis for drawing conclusions on how well it would do.
In all seriousness though. Talon of the Emperor and Saint Celestine both debuted sister type models so it isn't out of the range of possibilities. But I tend to agree I think they will do something like they did for Overkill and do a boardgamish intro. Worked great for GSC.
Orks are a great starting point for an army. Even in the build and collect series geared toward a younger crowd they are going with marines and orks granted the old designs from black reach but still. With what they did with the new dark imperium i could see them doing like they did last year with the limited edition boxes. Space wolves vs orks, Blood Angels vs nids... only one i didn't get was harliquins vs whoever they had. But those were repacks basically of models with new hero models included so not sure how well that would work for Sisters who don't have plastic models yet.
Someone at GW is going to read all these posts of people wanting sisters of battle and orks and combine them into sister orks. Emperor praising female fungus fanatics in powered heals.
In all seriousness though. Talon of the Emperor and Saint Celestine both debuted sister type models so it isn't out of the range of possibilities. But I tend to agree I think they will do something like they did for Overkill and do a boardgamish intro. Worked great for GSC.
Orks are a great starting point for an army. Even in the build and collect series geared toward a younger crowd they are going with marines and orks granted the old designs from black reach but still. With what they did with the new dark imperium i could see them doing like they did last year with the limited edition boxes. Space wolves vs orks, Blood Angels vs nids... only one i didn't get was harliquins vs whoever they had. But those were repacks basically of models with new hero models included so not sure how well that would work for Sisters who don't have plastic models yet.
Someone at GW is going to read all these posts of people wanting sisters of battle and orks and combine them into sister orks. Emperor praising female fungus fanatics in powered heals.
GW are not going to produce a new 40k starter box when we are not even a year into 8th. If the Dark imperium box is being discontinued it will be so they can replace the full sized rule book with something smaller. Or maybe with the First strike and Know no fear boxes GW don't feel that Dark Imperium is a must stock anymore.
New SoB are possible. But any big box release would most likely be a vs set like Death masque or Blight war.
GoatboyBeta wrote: GW are not going to produce a new 40k starter box when we are not even a year into 8th. If the Dark imperium box is being discontinued it will be so they can replace the full sized rule book with something smaller. Or maybe with the First strike and Know no fear boxes GW don't feel that Dark Imperium is a must stock anymore.
New SoB are possible. But any big box release would most likely be a vs set like Death masque or Blight war.
GW releases what 3? good starter sets with miniatures and rules for 7th ed. How long that edition was alive?
So apparently GW work to the calendar year as opposed to financial and in halves not quarters even though their release schedule breaks down quite well into quarters.
Their releases have followed the same pattern over the last couple of years so its probably fair to assume a big release will come around june/july to kick start the next year half. Just like the custodes release will hopefully kickstart this one (I also think there will be another Primarch before now and the end of this half).
Second half, a new boxset would make sense especially if it were to introduce a new sisters range (unconfirmed) and a new Slaanesh range (confirmed to be later half of 2018 by one of the design team) alongside a Fulgrim model.
Rinse and repeat in 2019 for Khorne.
Whether they do it or not, replacing DI would make sense in order to reduce production and push people towards the multipart kits, especially if they feel the DI models have covered their dev/production costs which i find it hard to believe they wont have.
Those who dont think plastic sister will happen- If GW don't capitalise on an all female major faction then they're plain leaving cash on the table...... and they're not gonna do that.
The one thing id say for sisters and Slanesh....be careful what you wish for- both will be getting the millennial treatment.
Sidstyler wrote: I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set.
Easy to build, easy to paint, main faction, 'those are cool, I want to play them' effect. And Space Marines as mandatory Imperial faction.
Sidstyler wrote: But any army can be a "starter" army, though, really. That's the point of the "Start Collecting" boxes, isn't it?
Starting new armies is one thing. Starting the game another. Do I want a box with Sisters, GSC, Xenos mercenaries, IG veterans, Gue'vesa and Skitarii? Hell, yes. But would it sell enough to justify the risk? Would it attract enough new players? I don't think so.
I always giggle when I read stuff like this - I only spend inadvisable amounts of money on 40K and have for years because Little Me walked into the local GW to buy some Empire Halberdiers with my pocket money and instead walked out with the new Sisters of Battle codex with that stunning JB piece as the cover art.
People - GW included - vastly over estimate the power of Marines to entice new players relative to other factions. There's a certain threshold of "cool" you have to meet in order to get a potential new recruit to buy-in emotionally, and Marines absolutely do exceed that threshold, but I'm fairly sure so do future-goth bondage battle nuns, and cyborg men with giant robots, and a lot of other 40K things. Like a lot of scenarios when it comes to GW, "Marines mean the starter sells well" is a self-fulfilling prophecy; the starters always include Marines, and the starters always sell well, so they always put Marines in the starter and on & on.
Now, maybe it would turn out that literally no other faction in 40K is capable of shifting starter sets, but there's no way to actually know that until they release one that doesn't include Marines. I don't think they actually will, but unless & until it happens there's no basis for drawing conclusions on how well it would do.
Nobody is saying that Sisters do not appeal to people. As evidenced in this thread, there is plenty of people who really like the SoB. But Space Marines do undeniably have a broader appeal, they are closer to the classical stereotype of a fictional hero, a stereotype that is as popular as it is for very good reasons.
So we could expect to see a starter set with SoB then I imagine the full release would be a little later just like GSC were with Overkill. As long as it means we'll get a proper release later on I am completely happy with a starter set first, especially since the starters have some unique sculpts.
What would yas like to see? I would love to see a Ministorum Priest slotted in there, some regular sisters, seraphims and repentia would be my wishlist. Imagine a new Penitent Engine for the set....
This comes up every year at this time, with nothing to follow.
I think not much (if anything) has changed regarding SoB. They won't be updated in the foreseeable future
October 15, 2014
The Model Team
I spoke with Ali Morision about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.
I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.
Warhams-77 wrote: This comes up every year at this time, with nothing to follow.
I think not much (if anything) has changed regarding SoB. They won't be updated in the foreseeable future
October 15, 2014
The Model Team
I spoke with Ali Morision about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.
I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.
The problem I see with 40K is that it needs less books, not more. What I mean with this is that it needs less Space Marine books yet GW keeps pumping them out all the time and with their current structure you "need" 4-5 books just to play 1 army if you want all the toys they have on offer.
SM needs: Index, FW Index, SM codex, Chapter Approved
CSM needs: Index, FW Index, CSM codex, Death Guard codex (has better nurglings), Chapter Approved and most likely Chaos Daemons as well.
So how many books would you need to be able to play Sisters? Will they do combined books or spread them out to force you to buy multiple books?
Will Sisters need: Sisters codex, Ministorum codex and ofc the 2018 chapter approved.
Will they combine it into Adeptus Ministorum? Which I'd personally see as an insult as I'd rather them call it the Sisters of Battle codex that also has some Ministorum units in it rather than the Ministorum codex with 3-5 units and then the whole Sisters range.
unmercifulconker wrote: What would yas like to see? I would love to see a Ministorum Priest slotted in there, some regular sisters, seraphims and repentia would be my wishlist. Imagine a new Penitent Engine for the set....
Spoiler:
The Sisters need very few kits, if you wanted to you could create the whole power armor range with just 1 box, basically a Seraphim box with heavy weapon options included. This would be enough to allow for all infantry options except for Repentia.
What the range "NEEDS" are 4 boxes.
Battle Sisters/Dominions
Seraphim/Celestians
Retributors
Repentia
On top of this a few blisters with Canoness, Hospitaller, Dialogous
Ministorum range needs:
Acolyte box - because we all know GW wants another faction to be playable
Arco-Flagellants - Arco/Gun servitor combo box would work and solve another missing kit but I doubt GW would do this.
Death Cult Assassins
Crusaders - Dual box with PW/SS and 2h weapon options similar to Sisters of Silence box
Penitent Engines - Since these are ministorum units they wouldn't have to follow the holy trinity so could come with a wide variety of weapons. I'd be happy with HF, HB and MM options.
Priest blister and Demagogue or such like there used to be. Uriah and the other named priests from the first codex as well.
The TLDR is
Sisters need 4 boxes minimum and some blisters
Ministorum needs 4 boxes minimum and some blisters
On top of this I'd love to see plastic Repressors and Exorcists.
Are redone Immolator kit would also be good, to give it side sponson options. Basically a Sisters version of the Baal Predator.
On top of this you can add pretty much anything. Fliers, bikes, cavalry units, cyber beasts for Ministorum Witch Hunters etc etc etc
Fenris-77 wrote: Much more importantly than begging, people actually bought Custodes in surprising quantities. GW cares very much about who's actually buying what, not so much about internet ranting.
Because they're brand-new modern plastics that have been well-designed, and also came bundled in a box with a lot of other new plastics that were sold for a bargain. Compared to GW expecting you to spend a whopping $80 on a single box of ten basic troop models that are literal decades out of date now, with no options, in a material that people don't like to work with, direct-only from GW so you get little to no discount on top of all that.
Not really a fair comparison. No one would buy Custodes either if they were sold in a similar fashion. In fact people would probably accuse GW of sabotaging the line and wanting it to fail if they tried.
GW isn't likely to release something in the fashion you describe, for the reasons you describe. The point isn't to compare the two lines now, but rather to talk about what's actually going to sell. Sisters, sadly, have been a peripheral army for a long time. The lack of plastics plays a part there, but if GW thought they were going to sell a mint of them they would have done plastics. They haven't though, which at the very least provides us with a healthy index of where GW thinks potential Sisters sales are at.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
I don't think they give a crap about people being disappointed about an announcement. They will look at the sales figures when the models are released and make any changes based on that.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
I don't think they give a crap about people being disappointed about an announcement. They will look at the sales figures when the models are released and make any changes based on that.
The existence of the General's Handbook refutes your statement.
Warhams-77 wrote: This comes up every year at this time, with nothing to follow.
I think not much (if anything) has changed regarding SoB. They won't be updated in the foreseeable future
October 15, 2014
The Model Team
I spoke with Ali Morision about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.
I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.
Buy the original SoB from GW while they are available, 3rd party models and/or support the occassional KS for new stuff.
A lot has changed since 2014. Since then GW has embraced social media where they have said the number one question is about sisters. They have also had two test figures with the resin Cannoness and Celestine. Both of these sold extremely well.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a new range of sisters models is coming. It is just a matter of when.
It is interesting to note that Brian Nelson who designed Celestine has not had his name attached to any projects since then.
It would not surprise me if he was the lead on the sisters project.
Process wrote: So apparently GW work to the calendar year as opposed to financial and in halves not quarters even though their release schedule breaks down quite well into quarters.
Their releases have followed the same pattern over the last couple of years so its probably fair to assume a big release will come around june/july to kick start the next year half. Just like the custodes release will hopefully kickstart this one (I also think there will be another Primarch before now and the end of this half).
Second half, a new boxset would make sense especially if it were to introduce a new sisters range (unconfirmed) and a new Slaanesh range (confirmed to be later half of 2018 by one of the design team) alongside a Fulgrim model.
Rinse and repeat in 2019 for Khorne.
Whether they do it or not, replacing DI would make sense in order to reduce production and push people towards the multipart kits, especially if they feel the DI models have covered their dev/production costs which i find it hard to believe they wont have.
Those who dont think plastic sister will happen- If GW don't capitalise on an all female major faction then they're plain leaving cash on the table...... and they're not gonna do that.
The one thing id say for sisters and Slanesh....be careful what you wish for- both will be getting the millennial treatment.
This has actually been confirmed? At the open day, I take it?
Wouldn't that be something.
Mymearan wrote: Did I miss any credible rumours in this thread or is there a reason there are 5 pages based on "my local GW guy said"?
Credible Sisters rumors don't exist, but if they did, no, nothing of any more substance than in the original post.
Model range hasn't been confirmed. But it is on record there's meant to be some sort of AoS event in the summer that's meant to deal with the fate of Slaneesh. So if there are models due, that will be the time.
Also, I don't know why I bother coming into the threads using those combinations of words. Every time I see them I get a spark of excitement and then the usual disappointment.
timetowaste85 wrote: Don’t forget, when they teaser the Magnus release in the dumpster, they also mentioned plastic Sisters. No rule about when they have to be released...then again, that could have been in reference to St. Celestine.
It was.
No it was a troll and they were proud of it afterward and even lied by pretending they didn't say "of battle" while the video is still online and anyone can check that they did.
Chamberlain wrote: I think there will need to be further changes. The sort of corset style, fleur-de-lis, bob haircuts and the like is just super generic.
Yeah, super generic. It's been done to death, just look at Starcraft, Halo, Gears of War, Doom, ...
Oh wait, that was the space marine .
Sidstyler wrote: I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set. They would play a lot like Marines do, I would think (just with more fire).
Models.
The stupid space marines model from the idiotic starter pack works for like 5 different dumb armies in this very unintelligent game because they are all the same things with different colors. That's why they will always use those model in the starter box. That way it gives new player more (stupid, meaningless, illusion of) choice on their fist army. Is it going to be red marine, green marine, blue marine, gray marine? Wow! I blame GW.
timetowaste85 wrote: Don’t forget, when they teaser the Magnus release in the dumpster, they also mentioned plastic Sisters. No rule about when they have to be released...then again, that could have been in reference to St. Celestine.
It was.
No it was a troll and they were proud of it afterward and even lied by pretending they didn't say "of battle" while the video is still online and anyone can check that they did.
Chamberlain wrote: I think there will need to be further changes. The sort of corset style, fleur-de-lis, bob haircuts and the like is just super generic.
Yeah, super generic. It's been done to death, just look at Starcraft, Halo, Gears of War, Doom, ...
Oh wait, that was the space marine .
Sidstyler wrote: I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set. They would play a lot like Marines do, I would think (just with more fire).
Models.
The stupid space marines model from the idiotic starter pack works for like 5 different dumb armies in this very unintelligent game because they are all the same things with different colors. That's why they will always use those model in the starter box. That way it gives new player more (stupid, meaningless, illusion of) choice on their fist army. Is it going to be red marine, green marine, blue marine, gray marine? Wow! I blame GW.
Just to pile on, the idea that ANYTHING in this game is as unique or interesting aesthetically as Sisters of battle is an absolute joke. You can find literally millions of things across dozens of different lines that are close approximations of everything in 40k (yes, even admech) EXCEPT Sisters until recently when companies VERY DELIBERATELY copied their aesthetic. Ask any SoB player; until VERY recently it was impossible to find anything that even remotely resembled sisters but i could build a counts as army of pretty much any other race out of hasbro toys.
Not to mention the fact that 99% of everything in 40k that ISN'T an SoB is a ripoff of something else:
Tyranids=Aliens
Eldar=Space Elves
Dark Eldar= Space DARK elves
Necrons= Terminator
Admech+Inq+ Non-SoB adminstorum= Dune
Space Marine(all colors)=Space Marines. Pick one there's been millions
Chaos Space Marine= Marines with spikes on them
Daemons= Biblical demons
Orkz=LoTR Orcs+ Cockney accents
That whole discussion was absolutely ridiculous nonsense.
Alpharius wrote: Let's stay on topic in here - such as it is - yes?
Thanks!
Realistically, this thread should be closed now though id imagine. Per 100% of other sister threads it devolves into rubbish/wishlisting/hearsay. And like 100% of previous sister threads, there is never any actual solid info besides " I heard this at my GW store !!!"
Real pictures, or real info or this is a wasted space!
I heard something about GW opening up a new factory to address the production bottlenecks. I could imagine GW being hesitant to add major new armies until that is done, so they don't have too many kits go out of stock.
Ratius wrote: Are there any actual rumours left in the last 5 pages of this? Or just another sisters lamentation thread?
I'm suprised it even lasted this long. Any rumor thread that starts off referencing the source as any variation of the nebulous and always unreliable "store manager" should be locked with extreme prejudice, imo.
Warhams-77 wrote: This comes up every year at this time, with nothing to follow.
I think not much (if anything) has changed regarding SoB. They won't be updated in the foreseeable future
October 15, 2014
The Model Team
I spoke with Ali Morision about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.
I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.
Buy the original SoB from GW while they are available, 3rd party models and/or support the occassional KS for new stuff.
A quote from 2014? What do you think they would have said if asked how many primarchs will be returning?
That's exactly my point. We know they had started work around 2013/14 on the first Primarchs. End of 2014 - when they should have started working on a new SoB range if it would be released this year, 3 years is a minimum for so many kits - head of the miniature department (afaik) said they don't think estimated sales would justify a new line. If that opinion has changed, great, but taken into consideration how long they have worked on the Dark Eldar revamp I would be surprised (in a good way) if we see a full SoB plastic range this soon. Fingers-crossed though.
Warhams-77 wrote: This comes up every year at this time, with nothing to follow.
I think not much (if anything) has changed regarding SoB. They won't be updated in the foreseeable future
October 15, 2014
The Model Team
I spoke with Ali Morision about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.
I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.
Buy the original SoB from GW while they are available, 3rd party models and/or support the occassional KS for new stuff.
A quote from 2014? What do you think they would have said if asked how many primarchs will be returning?
That's exactly my point. We know they had started work around 2013/14 on the first Primarchs. End of 2014 - when they should have started working on a new SoB range if it would be released this year, 3 years is a minimum for so many kits - head of the miniature department (afaik) said they don't think estimated sales would justify a new line. If that opinion has changed, great, but taken into consideration how long they have worked on the Dark Eldar revamp I would be surprised (in a good way) if we see a full SoB plastic range this soon. Fingers-crossed though.
But you've rather missed his I think - if you asked them in 2014 whether they were going to be releasing Primarchs, they would have denied it even though they were working on them at the time. Because that's what GW do, they deny and obfuscate and dissemble until a few months before the release(which is at least an improvement on Kirby-GW, who could swear blind something wasn't happening until the preorders went up even when there were sprue pics floating around online). And while I agree a Sisters army is highly unlikely, I don't think the obstacles to it are practical - they already have the basic CAD assets they need as a result of Celestine, they've already shown they can release and make money on "minifactions" like GSC, and by all accounts they were just as surprised by how well Celestine and Veridyan sold as they were by Custodes - they're psychological, they're based on received wisdom and flawed logic, but are no less insurmountable for all that.
GW releases what 3? good starter sets with miniatures and rules for 7th ed. How long that edition was alive?
Nitpick - Dark Vengeance was starter set for two whole editions. Masque, Baal, and whatever box wolfwolwes had were not starter sets but battleforces-lite, sure, they had mini rule book but all were more expensive than DV and had full size sprues (plus promo HQ mini), not snapfits...
I'm to the point where I'll believe plastic Sisters are coming the day they show up on the webstore for preorders. However, on that day, I will be starting a new army.
EnTyme wrote: I'm to the point where I'll believe plastic Sisters are coming the day they show up on the webstore for preorders. However, on that day, I will be starting a new army.
So you are like the old GW in reverse Around 2014 they would claim they have no plans of making SoB even if release would be week later with pics leaked online! So yeah what the studio said in 2014 isn't exactly convincing evidence. And of course after 2014 things could change easily...Like with good sales on the cannoness.
I've been hearing 'credible' plastic sisters rumors since I started playing in 2012.
At this point, I'm not going to believe in them being released until I am holding one.
And even then, I'll be a little suspicious.
But seriously, their rumor leaks have all been pretty much plugged. I don't even think ANYONE was predicting the custodes release. We barely know what's coming out next month, much less what's coming out this summer.
EnTyme wrote: I'm to the point where I'll believe plastic Sisters are coming the day they show up on the webstore for preorders. However, on that day, I will be starting a new army.
So you are like the old GW in reverse
Heh. Not exactly. I wish GW would give us a similar release schedule to what FFG puts on their website. I'm just tired of being disappointed by "credible" SoB rumors. After the "red bin" video, I just don't trust Sisters rumors at all.
Not sure why so much weight is attached to Celestine sales or the resin Cannoness.
Celestine was sold in a pack with Cawl and the Inquisitor, both of which have much more use seeing the Ad Mech range had already been released and the Inquisition stuff had the Imperial Agents book, and prior books making it a useful addition. Theres no way you can impute Celestine led the sales drive of that box rather than one or the other of the other two models; or the simple fact it was a box of new and shiny, part 1 of 3, tied to a new hype driven campaign clearly pushing the story forward..
Similarly I wouldnt have read too much into the resin Cannoness other than it was an anniversary year so they dug up a classic image to reimagine, similar to Slambo, the Rogue Trader Marine and Rogue Trader Captain vignette. Why people telegraph a one off limited release item into anything more is beyond me. Its not like we got a full retro Rogue Trader inspired Marine of Crimson Fist release, or Slambo led to more classic Chaos Warrior models being released. The Cannoness could be nothing more than fan service in the anniversary year - pretty much how they advertised the model.
Cawl, ok, but Greyfax having more use than Celestine? Have you see some Imperial soup tournament lists?
And the difference with the Canoness and Slambo or the 30 year anniversary marine... is that the Canoness sould out. Very fast. And if all this Custodes release is just because the Custodes box sold really well... 2+2.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Not sure why so much weight is attached to Celestine sales or the resin Cannoness.
Celestine was sold in a pack with Cawl and the Inquisitor, both of which have much more use seeing the Ad Mech range had already been released and the Inquisition stuff had the Imperial Agents book, and prior books making it a useful addition. Theres no way you can impute Celestine led the sales drive of that box rather than one or the other of the other two models; or the simple fact it was a box of new and shiny, part 1 of 3, tied to a new hype driven campaign clearly pushing the story forward..
Similarly I wouldnt have read too much into the resin Cannoness other than it was an anniversary year so they dug up a classic image to reimagine, similar to Slambo, the Rogue Trader Marine and Rogue Trader Captain vignette. Why people telegraph a one off limited release item into anything more is beyond me. Its not like we got a full retro Rogue Trader inspired Marine of Crimson Fist release, or Slambo led to more classic Chaos Warrior models being released. The Cannoness could be nothing more than fan service in the anniversary year - pretty much how they advertised the model.
Do you work for GW? Because you seem to share their ability to misrepresent data and leave money on the table.
Sisters models are being cast as they sell off, in limited runs. The fact that they go out of availability from time to time isn't because GW can't make enough. Its because they only make so much, sell it, make more.
This thread is horrible. How another "my GW store guy told me Plastic Sisters" gets passed off as rumor rather than BS is severely disappointing.
I have played Sisters since their first release day. I sincerely hope they NEVER come out in plastic.
They've also just had their miniature of the year poll on the website, from whats been posted on here the Cannoness seemed to have done fairly well in it. That could help the cause for future SoB releases.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Not sure why so much weight is attached to Celestine sales or the resin Cannoness.
Celestine was sold in a pack with Cawl and the Inquisitor, both of which have much more use seeing the Ad Mech range had already been released and the Inquisition stuff had the Imperial Agents book, and prior books making it a useful addition. Theres no way you can impute Celestine led the sales drive of that box rather than one or the other of the other two models; or the simple fact it was a box of new and shiny, part 1 of 3, tied to a new hype driven campaign clearly pushing the story forward..
Similarly I wouldnt have read too much into the resin Cannoness other than it was an anniversary year so they dug up a classic image to reimagine, similar to Slambo, the Rogue Trader Marine and Rogue Trader Captain vignette. Why people telegraph a one off limited release item into anything more is beyond me. Its not like we got a full retro Rogue Trader inspired Marine of Crimson Fist release, or Slambo led to more classic Chaos Warrior models being released. The Cannoness could be nothing more than fan service in the anniversary year - pretty much how they advertised the model.
You can make your first argument about practically anything, including for a wee while there Custodes who most folk were buying as part of a big multibox with plastic MKIII Marines or a smaller multibox with Sisters of Silence. GW were still evidently able to infer from that that Custodes specifically were popular.
Weight is put on the second part because the rumour was they were extremely surprised by how well it sold for what it was, ie they expected it to be exactly what you described, a small nostalgia release, and it surpassed that by a noticeable enough amount to filter out of the company to us plebs.
And the reason people look at those two datapoints is because those are the only two recent datapoints, the point being that when you set aside all the logical but speculative arguments and rationales about the why's and wherefores of why Sisters are neglected and how they'd perform if they weren't and look at the two concrete examples we have, they released two Sisters products, whatever their format, and they sold well and were very well received.
Again though, we come back around to this: they managed to put out GSC, a faction I think it is fair to say had a significantly smaller "built in" fanbase than Sisters do even now, and it did well for them despite some issues like Aberrant availability and rules issues. I have yet to see a logical argument as to why they can do that - with absolutely no recent sales datapoints to back the initial decision at all - but would struggle to make money from a similar Sisters release.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: No it was a troll and they were proud of it afterward and even lied by pretending they didn't say "of battle" while the video is still online and anyone can check that they did.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: No it was a troll and they were proud of it afterward and even lied by pretending they didn't say "of battle" while the video is still online and anyone can check that they did.
I love that you have that screenshot on hand.
Well if your hobby is getting angry at toy soldier companies you probably accumulate a portfolio.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Again though, we come back around to this: they managed to put out GSC, a faction I think it is fair to say had a significantly smaller "built in" fanbase than Sisters do even now, and it did well for them despite some issues like Aberrant availability and rules issues. I have yet to see a logical argument as to why they can do that - with absolutely no recent sales datapoints to back the initial decision at all - but would struggle to make money from a similar Sisters release.
This is what I don't get.
GS Cults had to be a huge gamble for GW compared to a potential Sisters release.
Nobody was asking for Cults or really expected them to come back. The release could of been an easy flop.
People literally ask GW for Sisters on a daily basis on Facebook and in stores. Its their most demanded thing by far, even the store managers say it's always the first thing they hear. Then the resin canoness came out and people were livid that it sold out so fast and they couldn't get one.
Sisters of Battle seen like a sure thing, easy money to me.
I love that GW purposefully trolling their fanbase - and not in a fun, happy-clappy way but an actual 4chan trollface Problem? way - is somehow the fault of the fans.
If you don't want people to get upset with you for being a dick, don't act like a dick?
I can totally see why some people still have a negative reaction to the sisters of silence thing. Giving your customers news that makes them incredibly happy and then having it turn out to be not at all what they were excited about is a good way to alienate them for a long, long time.
I've been checking back on plastic Sisters rumours each month since late 2009 and the only things that have happened so far are Celestine and Veridyan. I was stunned that Genestealer Cults got something before SoBs, and thats coming from a player of SoB+GSC since 1992
I really feel like GW has missed so very many sales over the past 6 years or so. There are just so many plastic SoB proxy choices out there now, it will take something very special and comprehensive in order to get all the Sisters players to buy an entirely new range.
The ideal scenario is still a release of: a customisable Canoness, a Battle Sister boxed set that could be converted into Dominions/Repressors/Celestians/special characters, a Seraphim boxed set, a Repentia boxed set and FW plastic kits for the Repressor and redesigned Penitent Engine.
Even if all those were released at once, veteran players like me would probably only buy one box of each for the novelty factor of something different to join the metal models we already own. It would take a bit more creative thinking (i.e. an OPSoB Codex plus new units that REQUIRED purchase of the plastic kits) in order to really pull in both old and new players to the faction.
Seven pages already. Still sums up to “I’ll belive it when I see it.” I’ve started Sisters 18 months ago. Celestine and AoS female stormcasts have been well received. They will sell like hotcakes when they finally come.
Sidstyler wrote: I don't see what makes Sisters so "special" that they couldn't be in a starter set.
Easy to build, easy to paint, main faction, 'those are cool, I want to play them' effect. And Space Marines as mandatory Imperial faction.
Sidstyler wrote: But any army can be a "starter" army, though, really. That's the point of the "Start Collecting" boxes, isn't it?
Starting new armies is one thing. Starting the game another. Do I want a box with Sisters, GSC, Xenos mercenaries, IG veterans, Gue'vesa and Skitarii? Hell, yes. But would it sell enough to justify the risk? Would it attract enough new players? I don't think so.
I always giggle when I read stuff like this.
Granted. My first army was Genestealer Cult back then, so we're kind of on par. Doesn't change my opinion though.
I kinda understand the skepticism, we've got A number of things rumored to be coming "soon", which likely means summer or later. Something Tau related, maybe Russ+wolves (this one may be just speculative), the other two god specific CSM armies, and hints of what might be an entirely new faction. Given so many rumors are flying around, and how sisters get screwed over, it's no wonder people are doubting it.
I also feel the need to mention one possibility: Sisters of silence are intended to replace SoB, and this summer will see SoS getting a full codex like custodes are about to. It may be that GW is viewing this as a desire for a female power armored SM equivalent more than for SoB themselves.
Yodhrin wrote: You can make your first argument about practically anything, including for a wee while there Custodes who most folk were buying as part of a big multibox with plastic MKIII Marines or a smaller multibox with Sisters of Silence. GW were still evidently able to infer from that that Custodes specifically were popular.
Yeah. They had to do bit more than just look at how much custodians they shifted initially to figure out there was demand for them seeing lots of sales can be credited for being dirt cheap way(compared to alternatives) of getting MKIII marines which sells like hot cake for HH players and probably were used as cheaper(And visually different) alternative to basic marines in 40k! Not sure how they did but they had to do something to figure how much of custodians were "MKIII tax"(much like the sisters of silence and HQ models from that box are for me. I don't have big need of those but the box is still cheap enough I could literally throw them to garbage bin and still benefit. Doesn't mean me buying those boxes means I would be customer for bigger sisters of silence line! I'm very unlikely to ever buy anything specifically for them ever).
Just saying "it was part of bigger box" isn't cutting it. If it was we wouldn't have custodian release now...
FrothingMuppet wrote: Again though, we come back around to this: they managed to put out GSC, a faction I think it is fair to say had a significantly smaller "built in" fanbase than Sisters do even now, and it did well for them despite some issues like Aberrant availability and rules issues. I have yet to see a logical argument as to why they can do that - with absolutely no recent sales datapoints to back the initial decision at all - but would struggle to make money from a similar Sisters release.
This is what I don't get.
GS Cults had to be a huge gamble for GW compared to a potential Sisters release.
Nobody was asking for Cults or really expected them to come back.
That simply isn't true. When the 'allied detachments' were revealed for 6th, Genestealer cults immediately came up in discussion- it really is something people wanted and expected- if you like you can go way back to the discussions on various websites and find it. There was an expectation that it would lead to a bit more (and come sooner than they did), but between allies and the return and re-re-releases of Space Hulk, Cults were on a lot of people's minds.
There is also a demand for Sisters, of course, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a expectation, demand or market for GS cults.
Gimme decent plastic sisters with custom rhinochassis stuff, and that will be the day I start a new army! So some sales are lurking here... if GW just deigns to check places like dakkadakka.
Again though, we come back around to this: they managed to put out GSC, a faction I think it is fair to say had a significantly smaller "built in" fanbase than Sisters do even now, and it did well for them despite some issues like Aberrant availability and rules issues. I have yet to see a logical argument as to why they can do that - with absolutely no recent sales datapoints to back the initial decision at all - but would struggle to make money from a similar Sisters release.
This. GW is very reactive in how they operate.
Ive seen these wishlisting threads before based on nothing but with this the interesting thing for me is;
- Every female model GW has put out in the last 2 years has been massively well recieved
- The fact they've released these models means the design team has experience modelling and manufacturing female miniatures
- They have been making a push with the hobby to get more women involved for a while and like it or not, strong females are fashionable at the moment
Whether it happens or not, It makes too much sense for GW not to do it, there is no way they could read this market and not see that a sisters release would sell. If GW do operate on a quarterly release schedule it would be reasonable to think they could manage; Q1 Nurgle, Q2 custodes maybe campaign to lead into-, Q3 new boxset- sisters vs slanesh followed by faction release (basically same sched as dark imperium and primaris) then Q4 slaanesh release with fulgrim
Casbyness wrote: I've been checking back on plastic Sisters rumours each month since late 2009 and the only things that have happened so far are Celestine and Veridyan. I was stunned that Genestealer Cults got something before SoBs, and thats coming from a player of SoB+GSC since 1992
I really feel like GW has missed so very many sales over the past 6 years or so. There are just so many plastic SoB proxy choices out there now, it will take something very special and comprehensive in order to get all the Sisters players to buy an entirely new range.
The ideal scenario is still a release of: a customisable Canoness, a Battle Sister boxed set that could be converted into Dominions/Repressors/Celestians/special characters, a Seraphim boxed set, a Repentia boxed set and FW plastic kits for the Repressor and redesigned Penitent Engine.
Even if all those were released at once, veteran players like me would probably only buy one box of each for the novelty factor of something different to join the metal models we already own. It would take a bit more creative thinking (i.e. an OPSoB Codex plus new units that REQUIRED purchase of the plastic kits) in order to really pull in both old and new players to the faction.
This is a pretty common opinion but ultimately(at least anecdotaly) a minority one. The majority of SoB players would (and in plenty of cases have already budgeted for) replace their entire force with plastics over time. Or in my case, immediately.
2 simple reasons for this; 1. There's no way in hell that GW would release SoB without some new options whether it be new weapon loadouts (including ones we should have but don't) or new squad types. This would put your whole army out of scale and would constantly shout at you how old the current SoB sculpts actually are. This also accounts for 3rd party models. Can't copy some thing that doesn't exist yet. Though I will say while 3rd party models have gotten some traction recently, they're still very much a niche within a niche within a niche.
2. Is that they're metal and metal sucks. They chip if you look at them too hard, converting them is an absolute slog, rebasing them is a slog, getting replacement parts for them (mostly backpacks) is basically impossible without knowing a good recaster, they're heavy, they're just a pain to work with all the time.
I have about 4k points of sisters atm and still relish the day I get to put them in the case and start fresh with something that I don't have to repaint every 2 weeks.
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SilverAlien wrote: I kinda understand the skepticism, we've got A number of things rumored to be coming "soon", which likely means summer or later. Something Tau related, maybe Russ+wolves (this one may be just speculative), the other two god specific CSM armies, and hints of what might be an entirely new faction. Given so many rumors are flying around, and how sisters get screwed over, it's no wonder people are doubting it.
I also feel the need to mention one possibility: Sisters of silence are intended to replace SoB, and this summer will see SoS getting a full codex like custodes are about to. It may be that GW is viewing this as a desire for a female power armored SM equivalent more than for SoB themselves.
I can see why it does come up as a possibility that SoS replace SoB but what I can't really see is why. SoB have an established aesthetic, an established playstyle, a full codex, an established player base, and established demand that SoS just don't have. You'd be replacing something you have an incredible amount of data on with a relative unknown. Beyond that, the 40k rules writers have to keep matched play in mind when they design rules these days and an entire full army that's totally immune to psychic powers would be a balancing nightmare.
The only justification for going SoS over SoB that I can really see is the Horus Heresy tie-in and considering how half-assed THAT line is it doesn't seem very compelling.
ERJAK wrote: This is a pretty common opinion but ultimately(at least anecdotaly) a minority one. The majority of SoB players would (and in plenty of cases have already budgeted for) replace their entire force with plastics over time. Or in my case, immediately.
My Sisters slush fund has since been dissolved and spent on a company who actually cares to give me the stuff I want.
I think plastic Sisters would sell well enough, and make no mistake, if it ever comes to it, I'll happily build a new army over time to replace my old Sisters*, but the way GW handles them I'm just not going to wait around with cash in hand.
*Provided GW delivers quality models, of course. Celestine hints at it strongly, but I'm not going to buy on good faith.
I think we all know that plastic Sisters are done and simply waiting for their release date. Question is when? Has to be this year after they're done releasing codices... maybe Q3 or Q4?
Here's the thing for me, as a salty old vet at 40k I've been looking around for a new army to collect, my dank angels are getting a tad bland (20 + years of the same army will do that), if sisters suddenly turned up I would drop a lot of money on them, aesthetically it is quite different from a lot out there and it would give me an excuse to get my nieces involved, one loved goblins the other just loves "Wonder Woman" looking models.
Plastic Sisters rumors have been around since Dark Elves were rereleased in the early 2000's. IIRC there was even some art work showing the new poses.
Just out of curiosity for those of you who have bought from 3rd parties- How do they match up in terms of scale to GWSoB and how do they match up in price? By that I mean if I wanted to start a new SoB army with 3rd party models what is the sticker price?
I also feel the need to mention one possibility: Sisters of silence are intended to replace SoB, and this summer will see SoS getting a full codex like custodes are about to. It may be that GW is viewing this as a desire for a female power armored SM equivalent more than for SoB themselves.
That seems possible, but I feel like it would be a huge mistake. Sisters of Silence may be interesting in their own right, but they share almost nothing that makes Sisters of Battle iconic and compelling. It would be like if GW had discontinued Eldar when they introduced Tau, just because they're both humanoid aliens.
I keep hoping that GW will learn the lesson that literally every other miniatures company has learned. Well done female models sell well. And Sisters of Battle are the grandmother of female model lines.
timetowaste85 wrote: Don’t forget, when they teaser the Magnus release in the dumpster, they also mentioned plastic Sisters. No rule about when they have to be released...then again, that could have been in reference to St. Celestine.
This rumor.... at this point I wouldn’t even believe official pictures, videos even. When I am holding a new squad of just-assembled plastic sisters of battle in my two hands I’ll start to believe.
Like everyone else I'm supremely skeptical, but also like (most) everyone else if they released plastic sisters I'd start an army. I've been mostly coasting on models I purchased over a decade ago (3rd/4th edition) since I got back into the hobby a few months ago, but a full sisters release would likely have me throwing money at GW. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I don't really understand how people have been clamoring for a release since I stopped playing last time and yet it hasn't happened yet.
And unhappiness is more likely to be put to words. That is seen in real life everywhere. If you relied on internet you might think world is ending and everybody is miserable, in trouble, workless and doomed.
Imagine a new Penitent Engine for the set....
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