I will do my best to update here so we can have an all in one place for Necrons. I might not be able to update very fast, but will try at least once a day because when I get home I am so tired, hope you understand if I miss a day from updating. I can't serf the web like I use to so if anyone has any links to rumours please post here so I can update when I can.
I take no credit from this. All I am doing is compiling from what I read from Dakka and if I feel better from other sites as well.
One more time a A BIG THANK YOU FOR EVERYONE WHO IS POSTING HERE AND MAKING MY JOB EASY TO COLLECT. All credit goes to the people who I have quoted on Dakka.
*edit* Anyone know how I can link the pics to the thread? If so please let me know.
Fezza213 wrote: There are a number of datasheets being leaked online. The only one I have seen (before they were taken down) is the Tesseract Vault which gained:
4++ invulnerable save Knows 4 powers of the C'tan but can still only use what is in its datasheet (3 powers then 2 then 1). It uses C'tan powers at the end of the movement phase not in the shooting phase. Same points (I think) and 25 Power level.
Everything else is the same I believe.
changemod wrote: Imhotek can use MWBD twice, tomb blades have -1 penalty when shot at. Ctan powers seem okay if low numbers of mortal wounds with a variety of delivery gimmicks are your thing.
Not sure if I can post this or not. Since I haven't seen it deleted from Dakka will leave it here. If it's wrong, Please let me know and I or a mod can take it down.
MinscS2 wrote: Overall I feel slightly disappointed with the codex. There was no redesign of Necrons, this (beta) codex feels like the Index +1.
A few things I noticed: (other than what has been leaked/uploaded already)
RP hasn't changed, it's still roll 5+ for every slain model at the beginning of the turn.
Necron Lords have a reroll 1's to wound-aura.
Canoptek Cloaks give 10" movement and Fly, and a unit within 3" heals D3 instead of 1 with their Living Metal.
Hyperphase Swords give +1 Strength.
Flayed Ones lost 1 attack and their Ld-rule got worse (they now need to kill a model for said unit to get -1 Ld for the turn). They did get 4 ppm cheaper though.
Praetorians and Stalkers still don't have the <Dynasty> keyword. Wtf?
Heat Ray is now 2D6 hits when dispersed.
Wraiths did get AP-2 D2, and the ability to shoot/charge after falling back, but also went up massively in price.
Gauss Cannon is now Strength 6.
Doomsday Cannon is D6 shots on both profiles, regardless of the size of targeted unit.
Pointcosts in spoiler: (Wargear with a cost of 0 isn't in the list.)
2 CP reroll RP rolls of 1. 2 CP use an additional random C'tan power. 1 CP set up two units via invasion beams/eternity gate instead of one. 1 CP 3 Doom Scythes in proximity don't shoot but causes 3D3 mortal wounds to units within 3" of a point on 4+ (3+ for big units, 5+ for charcaters) 1 CP A Character (not Trazyn and C'tan) are raised with 1 wound on a roll of 4+ 1 CP A Necron Vehicle shoots with its undegraded profile for a turn. 2 CP A Lychguard unit with Dispersion Shields gain a 3++ in the shooting phase, attacker suffers MS on rolls of 6. 2 CP A Canoptek unit gains RP for a turn. 1 CP -1 to rolls made for Quantum Shielding on a vehicle for a phase. 1 CP 1 Swarm model can suicide, causing D3 mortal wounds on 2+ to a nearby (1") unit 1 CP A Destroyer unit rerolls failed to hit and wound for a shooting phase. 1 CP +1 Strength for a necron infantry unit in close combat for a assault phase. 1 CP Overlord can use MWBD / WoC a second time 1 CP A Necron Character ignores invulnerable saves on his *first attack* in close combat. 1 CP A Canoptek Unit can shoot and/or charge while advancing. 1 CP A unit of Prateorians gains +1 to hit for a shooting or fight phase. 1 CP An Obelisk's gravity pulse triggers on 4+ instead of 6's. 1 CP A C'tan Shard can replace one of its power with a different power. 2 CP (Sautekh) If a Sautekh unit causes an usnaved wound to a unit, add +1 to hit for friendly sautekh units that target the same unit this phase 2 CP (Nihilakh) End of turn. Select a unit, if within 3" from an objective marker OR if it didnt move for any reason during its turn, it gains +1 to saving throws and +1 attack until the start of next turn 1 CP (Nephrek) During deployment. One infantry or Swarm unit can be set up in deepstrike (9") 3 CP (Novokh) A Novokh unit can fight a second time in this fight phase. 1 CP (Mephrit) For every roll of 6 to hit in the shooting phase, make one additional hit roll.
Artefacts in spoiler:
Spoiler:
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6" - Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result of RP. - Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". Mortal wound on each roll of 6. - Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP-4, Damage 3) - Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer) - Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A Mortal wound on 4+ - Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your turn and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at end of phase, with D6 wounds remaining. - Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W. - Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6, AP3 Damage 2 / User AP2 D1 - Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, Damage 2, +D3 Attacks. - Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 Damage 1 in melee) - The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 Damage 1 / AP2 Damage 1. If enemy infantry is hit in the shooting phase, on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn. - Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
Warlord Traits in spoiler:
Spoiler:
-1 Damage taken on Warlord. Re-roll failed wound rolls in fight phase if charged/was charged/performed a HI. Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass morale within 6". Warlord can attempt to deny 1 psychic power. Increases range of all abilities by 3". (with a few exceptions such as vehicle explosions etc.) Reroll failed charge rolls for friendly <Dynasty> units within 6" Warlord gains +D3 attacks if targeting the same character with all their attacks.
Sautekh: Once per battle, reroll a single hit roll, wound roll or damage roll. In addition, regain each spent CP on 5+. Mephrit: +6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. Your Warlord can shoot enemy characters even if they are not the closest model. Nihilak: Always fights first in the fight phase even if he didn't charge. Nephrek: Opponent must substract 1 from hit rolls that target the Warlord. Novok: Unmodified hit rolls of 6's in the fight phase for friendly novokhs within 6" of your Warlord can make one additional attack.
Negative Nancy says that with the exception of stuff that always gets added in 8th Ed. codeci, very little has actually changed from the Index to the Codex. Many units stayed the same or nearly the same. Lychguard are still overpriced for instance.
Positive Pete on the other hand points out that overall the Codes, Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits are pretty good, or at the very least useable.
There are some other rumours in the necron tactics thread about points changes, if I could figure out a sensible way to copy them in via my mobile I would. Can anyone lend a hand?
There are a number of datasheets being leaked online. The only one I have seen (before they were taken down) is the Tesseract Vault which gained:
4++ invulnerable save
Knows 4 powers of the C'tan but can still only use what is in its datasheet (3 powers then 2 then 1).
It uses C'tan powers at the end of the movement phase not in the shooting phase.
Same points (I think) and 25 Power level.
Imhotek can use MWBD twice, tomb blades have -1 penalty when shot at. Ctan powers seem okay if low numbers of mortal wounds with a variety of delivery gimmicks are your thing.
to link images into the thread use image tags like this
to get the url for embedded images right click on them and select properties and manually copy it (IE), right click and select copy image address (chrome) or right click and select copy image location (firefox)
to get the url for embedded images right click on them and select properties and manually copy it (IE), right click and select copy image address (chrome) or right click and select copy image location (firefox)
Or I could direct you to the place it's easily accessible until someone inevitably makes and links an imgur, rather than trying to juggle images into a forum from mobile.
One of the images with a relic scythe refers to replacing a Warscythe or a "Voidscythe" as if it's a standard piece of equipment.
Thanks Slashy for the repost. Voidreaper looks amazing, depending on what the other relics are, I can see myself using this one with an Overlord in most games.
Imotek has had some nice buffs. MWBD twice and the +1 CP are nice additions. I've always liked this character and this helps reinforce my idea of running Sautek has a primary Battalion.
Emergency Invasion Beam is exactly what the community was asking for, and solves the transport issue of losing a Night Scythe before you can deploy from Tomb World. (hopefully they have another one that allows you to teleport from the Tomb World without needing a transport at all - similar to the Eldar's Webway Assault etc.
buddha wrote: Any word on ressurection protocols? Old rumors said it was completely changed and reworked.
This is indeed the million dollar question, gauss and tesla didn't get changed (they may have stratagems we don't know about), so the last big unanswered question is this.
Solar Pulse pretty much solves the one issue tesla has (namely it being bad against muhreens in cover). I know what I'm building my forgebane dudes with.
I think we'll have more than 5 codes though because A) 5 just seems underwhelming and B) the article on Warhammer Community said that, "here’s a peek at the Dynastic Codes – powerful rules for customising your collection – to whet your appetite."
The last one probably means nothing, but I originally read that as us getting more.
I could see a dynasty like the Charnovokh or Thokt getting rules
I think we'll have more than 5 codes though because A) 5 just seems underwhelming
Eldar only have rules for 5 Craftworlds.
While Necrons too (allegedly) only have 5 Dynasty Codes, they are all more or less viable.
I'd rather see fewer "army tactics" where all are viable, than more tactics where half of them are useless.
I think we'll have more than 5 codes though because A) 5 just seems underwhelming
Eldar only have rules for 5 Craftworlds.
While Necrons too (allegedly) only have 5 Dynasty Codes, they are all more or less viable.
I'd rather see fewer "army tactics" where all are viable, than more tactics where half of them are useless.
True enough, the t we have are nice. I'm also eager to see what exactly the void scythe is
I'm hoping they noticed that in the index they gave us two power swords (by other names) that do exactly the same thing for two different points costs. Get diversity in rules and balance costs please.
cuda1179 wrote: I'm hoping they noticed that in the index they gave us two power swords (by other names) that do exactly the same thing for two different points costs. Get diversity in rules and balance costs please.
They already fixed that, as of the FAQ voidblades give an extra attack like chainswords.
Don't get me wrong, probably very effective, just they seem pretty boring.
Essentially 6 different ways to deal a small amount of mortal wounds around. Kind of a shame.
A Tesseract Vault could subject a target unit to multiple powers at once. Those mortal wounds add up.
I agree though that they lack that flavor. The old Transcendant C'Tan leaping forward and in the process inflicting a D hit on what it literally moved through. Or the old Entropic Touch inflicting D hits in close combat.
Damn, the Powers of the Ctan are disappointing. NOT because they're not good - it's nice to have a few ways of doing some MWs - but they are very uninspired. Why can't the Ctan augment reality in more interesting ways? Buffing other units / itself/ movememt shenanigans - Would have functioned as a quasi psychic discipline. Some of them are amazing with a Vault though. Kill a 2 wound model on 2+ regardless of FNP. Wipe out 1/3 of a horde..
Aren73 wrote: Essentially 6 different ways to deal a small amount of mortal wounds around. Kind of a shame.
So 8th Ed in a nutshell?
Kind of yeah. It lacks a lot of flavour and overall I think the idea of mortal wounds is uninteresting. Magic in fantasy, Psychic powers and C'tan powers were always something that was a bit beyond the core rules, that did something different and interesting and yes maybe sometimes clunky but it made it unique. I really feel like it removes a lot of flavour from the game, though of course for competitive games this must be great. Probably speeds up the game and is easier to build a list around. But fun, it is not.
Slashy McTalons wrote:Damn, the Powers of the Ctan are disappointing. NOT because they're not good - it's nice to have a few ways of doing some MWs - but they are very uninspired. Why can't the Ctan augment reality in more interesting ways? Buffing other units / itself/ movememt shenanigans - Would have functioned as a quasi psychic discipline. Some of them are amazing with a Vault though. Kill a 2 wound model on 2+ regardless of FNP. Wipe out 1/3 of a horde..
Yeah. would have been cool to get powers that maybe don't deal direct damage necessarily, but rather screw with your opponent in different ways. Now it's essentially: 1: d3 MW with range 24'', 2: kill a model within 18'', 3: deal d3 MW on 3 units within 18'', 4: deal d3 MW to all enemies within 9'', 5: deal a MW for a number of models in a unit, 6: enemy unit within 24'' takes d3 MW, may bounce onto other target.
One of the few non robotic components in the army is surprisingly the most bland and robotic itself.
You know you can put Youtube videos as embeds, yeah?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Canoptek Cloak gives you FLY and alters your Move characteristic to 10". Additionally, you get to pick a friendly <Dynasty> model with Living Metal within 3". They regain D3 lost wounds, rather than 1, from Living Metal.
Don't get me wrong, probably very effective, just they seem pretty boring.
Essentially 6 different ways to deal a small amount of mortal wounds around. Kind of a shame.
So one needs to have more than one Shard to make it effective.
Indeed, very boring. Designers with zero creativity.
They're clearly able to come up with different things. It's just perplexing to see that they didn't here. Maybe they didn't want to make it so people were required to take a Shard to make the most of the army?
Don't get me wrong, probably very effective, just they seem pretty boring.
Essentially 6 different ways to deal a small amount of mortal wounds around. Kind of a shame.
So one needs to have more than one Shard to make it effective.
Indeed, very boring. Designers with zero creativity.
Tesseract Vault can use 3 of 4 Powers at a time. A high value unit caught in the range of multiple powers could have multiple mortal wounds piled on top of it.
This has kind of meant I don't get to eat this lunchtime though...
Not bad ... although not the major overhaul of fundamental mechanics some people were rumouring ...
Destroyers just got good again with upgrades to the Gauss Cannon (closer to the 5th ed. codex values - higher strength and fire rate)
I quite like the transcendent C'tan (I hope they make a standalone model for him) - maybe the Powers are bland, but he also gets some good stuff from Fractured Personality which adds up to Good.
Warlord traits - good. Glad to see a second way for any house to get DTW.
Dynasty traits - at first glance looks like 4 mediocre ones and one super one everyone will take, but time and contact with the enemy will tell if that is true (most Gauss weapons are Rapid Fire and so want to be within half their MAXIMUM range of the enemy anyway...)
Shame the unique flavours of Cryptek have not returned. Also now a chronometron is optional.
Some odd wargear choices - no Voidscythe for a command barge, and no Phylactery for anyone other than a Destroyer Lord (though if you pimp him out with the artefact phylactery you can make him hard to get rid of...)
I wish there were less Sautekh characters and more from other dynasties so we don't feel compelled to Sautekh if we want named characters
all in all I am looking forward to playing this...
some very nice stratagems
but barely point drops, no RP change so still max up units which make everything very expensive.
very disappointed no point drop on monolith
*sight* so still need 3k -4k for a brigade
so nice stratagems you can barely use because it's hard to start with more then 6 points.
Sauthek is a no brainer then
Thats me cancelling the purchase of a Necron army, the book suffers from 8th syndrome, boring, bland, uninspired and yet another book that lacked a design team that actually cared about the faction.
Overall I feel slightly disappointed with the codex.
There was no redesign of Necrons, this (beta) codex feels like the Index +1.
A few things I noticed: (other than what has been leaked/uploaded already)
RP hasn't changed, it's still roll 5+ for every slain model at the beginning of the turn.
Necron Lords have a reroll 1's to wound-aura.
Canoptek Cloaks give 10" movement and Fly, and a unit within 3" heals D3 instead of 1 with their Living Metal.
Hyperphase Swords give +1 Strength.
Flayed Ones lost 1 attack and their Ld-rule got worse (they now need to kill a model for said unit to get -1 Ld for the turn). They did get 4 ppm cheaper though.
Praetorians and Stalkers still don't have the <Dynasty> keyword. Wtf?
Heat Ray is now 2D6 hits when dispersed.
Wraiths did get AP-2 D2, and the ability to shoot/charge after falling back, but also went up massively in price.
Gauss Cannon is now Strength 6.
Doomsday Cannon is D6 shots on both profiles, regardless of the size of targeted unit.
Pointcosts in spoiler:
(Wargear with a cost of 0 isn't in the list.)
2 CP reroll RP rolls of 1.
2 CP use an additional random C'tan power.
1 CP set up two units via invasion beams/eternity gate instead of one.
1 CP 3 Doom Scythes in proximity don't shoot but causes 3D3 mortal wounds to units within 3" of a point on 4+ (3+ for big units, 5+ for charcaters)
1 CP A Character (not Trazyn and C'tan) are raised with 1 wound on a roll of 4+
1 CP A Necron Vehicle shoots with its undegraded profile for a turn.
2 CP A Lychguard unit with Dispersion Shields gain a 3++ in the shooting phase, attacker suffers MS on rolls of 6.
2 CP A Canoptek unit gains RP for a turn.
1 CP -1 to rolls made for Quantum Shielding on a vehicle for a phase.
1 CP 1 Swarm model can suicide, causing D3 mortal wounds on 2+ to a nearby (1") unit
1 CP A Destroyer unit rerolls failed to hit and wound for a shooting phase.
1 CP +1 Strength for a necron infantry unit in close combat for a assault phase.
1 CP Overlord can use MWBD / WoC a second time
1 CP A Necron Character ignores invulnerable saves on his *first attack* in close combat.
1 CP A Canoptek Unit can shoot and/or charge while advancing.
1 CP A unit of Prateorians gains +1 to hit for a shooting or fight phase.
1 CP An Obelisk's gravity pulse triggers on 4+ instead of 6's.
1 CP A C'tan Shard can replace one of its power with a different power.
2 CP (Sautekh) If a Sautekh unit causes an usnaved wound to a unit, add +1 to hit for friendly sautekh units that target the same unit this phase
2 CP (Nihilakh) End of turn. Select a unit, if within 3" from an objective marker OR if it didnt move for any reason during its turn, it gains +1 to saving throws and +1 attack until the start of next turn
1 CP (Nephrek) During deployment. One infantry or Swarm unit can be set up in deepstrike (9")
3 CP (Novokh) A Novokh unit can fight a second time in this fight phase.
1 CP (Mephrit) For every roll of 6 to hit in the shooting phase, make one additional hit roll.
Artefacts in spoiler:
Spoiler:
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result of RP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". Mortal wound on each roll of 6.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP-4, Damage 3)
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A Mortal wound on 4+
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your turn and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at end of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6, AP3 Damage 2 / User AP2 D1
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, Damage 2, +D3 Attacks.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 Damage 1 in melee)
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 Damage 1 / AP2 Damage 1. If enemy infantry is hit in the shooting phase, on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
Warlord Traits in spoiler:
Spoiler:
-1 Damage taken on Warlord.
Re-roll failed wound rolls in fight phase if charged/was charged/performed a HI.
Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass morale within 6". Warlord can attempt to deny 1 psychic power.
Increases range of all abilities by 3". (with a few exceptions such as vehicle explosions etc.)
Reroll failed charge rolls for friendly <Dynasty> units within 6"
Warlord gains +D3 attacks if targeting the same character with all their attacks.
Sautekh: Once per battle, reroll a single hit roll, wound roll or damage roll. In addition, regain each spent CP on 5+.
Mephrit: +6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. Your Warlord can shoot enemy characters even if they are not the closest model.
Nihilak: Always fights first in the fight phase even if he didn't charge.
Nephrek: Opponent must substract 1 from hit rolls that target the Warlord.
Novok: Unmodified hit rolls of 6's in the fight phase for friendly novokhs within 6" of your Warlord can make one additional attack.
Negative Nancy says that with the exception of stuff that always gets added in 8th Ed. codeci, very little has actually changed from the Index to the Codex. Many units stayed the same or nearly the same. Lychguard are still overpriced for instance.
Positive Pete on the other hand points out that overall the Codes, Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits are pretty good, or at the very least useable.
MinscS2 wrote: Overall I feel slightly disappointed with the codex.
There was no redesign of Necrons, this (beta) codex feels like the Index +1.
Negative Nancy says that with the exception of stuff that always gets added in 8th Ed. codeci, very little has actually changed from the Index to the Codex. Many units stayed the same or nearly the same. Lychguard are still overpriced for instance.
Positive Pete on the other hand points out that overall the Codes, Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits are pretty good, or at the very least useable.
I really hope this a playtest codex, with the actual codex being changed more then this.
Positive Pete is completely true, but goes hand in hand with negative Nancy. You can't build many detachments if most of the points stay the same as the index, thus can't use much of those very good stratagems.
For now I'm very disappointed, this explaines why they bring out the box with necrons first, so everyone buys a box, just to sell the necrons 2 weeks later when they see the very expensive wraits and lame codex.
wuestenfux wrote: How about my beloved Wraiths?
They got a severe cost increase, now 55 (+17) pts.
yes, they were bad before, and now they got some better powers (better claws and ability to fall back and recharge (note they do not technically fly, which mostly will save them from AA weapons)) it's like they had to proportionally increase the points to keep them in the "bad" tier...
I notice the dates on the beta codex puts it at 4-5 months old, if accurate. Hopefully we'll see a few more changes in the finished thing. *cough* Monolith *cough*
Is no one else concerned about this leak? Gw has been tiptoeing in the direction of better playtesting of late but a leak like this may well cause them to close up shop again. I can only assume that this came from a playtester.
Honestly this is pretty amazing. All good traits, heavy destroyers have the necessary points drop to fix our gaping anti-vehicle and monster problem, and then as icing on the cake other various points drops and improvements throughout with the only points increase being on a unit that got a huge buff.
And I'm noticing plenty of stratagems that plug synergy issues the index had too.
Chikout wrote: Is no one else concerned about this leak? Gw has been tiptoeing in the direction of better playtesting of late but a leak like this may well cause them to close up shop again. I can only assume that this came from a playtester.
Might have come from a review copy – as I don’t think play testers get the full codex. (I believe someone said not long ago, that they get sent set information and lists and told to test them).
As the pre-order is in just under 3 weeks time, it is likely from an international store or review copy.
Chikout wrote: Is no one else concerned about this leak? Gw has been tiptoeing in the direction of better playtesting of late but a leak like this may well cause them to close up shop again. I can only assume that this came from a playtester.
Might have come from a review copy – as I don’t think play testers get the full codex. (I believe someone said not long ago, that they get sent set information and lists and told to test them).
As the pre-order is in just under 3 weeks time, it is likely from an international store or review copy.
The leak seems to have been a digital copy, which stores don't get.
wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.
Some good stratagems there (e.g. reroll hits and wounds with Destroyers for 1CP!). Sad that the fight again strat is tied to one dynasty. Some awful strats too (e.g. Improve Lychguard invun to 3++ for 2CP. Wtf?!). Disappointing that the majority of the unit entries are just copied with minimal or no changes from the index. No change to RP is TERRIBLE. I notice they didn't bother to fix the schizophrenic destroyer lord either.
Lychguard are still bland, so are Praetorians. No boost to psychic defence except a warlord trait for 1 deny. Triarch Stalkers are still bland too.
Yes this is a beta copy (as the video states) but knowing GW they didn't listen to any play testers and probably will just use this. I did notice going through it that it's 100% kinda a copy and paste... I thought there was going to be a huge overhaul and everything! Would be epic if they got told this was dumb and then they were all like "Yes... this si dumb! Let's remake it from ground up right now!!!" bt then again.... gw....
Also the difference between an Obelisk and Tesseract Vault is so big now I can't see anyone ever taking the Obelisk. It's slightly cheaper and has +1T, but the Vault gets 3 super-enhanced C'tan powers that utterly leave the Obelisk in the dust as far as damage potential goes...
Cheeslord wrote: Also the difference between an Obelisk and Tesseract Vault is so big now I can't see anyone ever taking the Obelisk. It's slightly cheaper and has +1T, but the Vault gets 3 super-enhanced C'tan powers that utterly leave the Obelisk in the dust as far as damage potential goes...
Vault is ugly as sin, impossible to transport and the extra damage is just typical light mortal wound powers, nothing to write home about.
The vault is absolutely superior for it's invulnerable save, but I'll stick to my obelisk when I feel like deploying ominously floating architecture.
At first glance the leaked Codex looks pretty disappointing and definitely not the major overhaul that was being mooted.
However, having just put my current 1750 point list into the new Codex I'm coming out at 115 points cheaper, which is a pretty significant saving. While there haven't been a huge number of price drops, some of them have been pretty substantial, including Destroyers and Overlords. Lords now seem pretty good too and a good portion of those extra points will be going back into a Lord for re-roll 1s to wound.
The stratagems seem like a mixed bag but there's some good ones in there for sure. I'm most disappointed about the lack of change to RP and our anti-tank still looks pretty weak. On the plus side, Destroyers and Wraiths look pretty good now. Yes, Wraiths are more expensive but extra AP and Damage is great as is the ability to fall back and assault.
After giving it some thought I'm cautiously optimistic.
How can people complain about this?!?! The army is bananans now! We've gone from a durable army in 7th to an even more durable army now! your all looking at it wrong. New cryptek buffs vehicles, which are also buffed. They are a good backbone to an army that now VOMITS mortal wounds. Look at everything besides the boring normal stuff, C'tan spew them, imotekh, relics, etc etc.
It's codex: Sautekh C'tan and friends but holy hell it looks amazing. Fast, hardhitting necrons are here to stay babay!!!
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
I hate to break it to you, but basically every one of the 'powerful' codices have had this issue of being bland. It comes down simply to Necrons, like Guard or Tau or AdMech, didn't have a whole lot of unit choice to begin with and without introducing a whole slew of new stuff we just weren't going to see a whole lot of interestingly different builds IMO.
Mephrit dynasty's trait makes me feel sad for the MEQ - and even a little dirty for considering using it. An extra -1AP at half range makes warriors incredibly deadly to the MEQ, and we get it on all Dynasty units too! Immortals at AP3, Destroyers (who can use their speed to reliably get to half range) at AP4...even Tesla at -1...
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
What did you expect that wouldn't be 'bland'? Beyond making new entries or a load of equipment options that weren't present before, I aren't sure what people expected?
The Gauss Cannon buff: from Heavy 2 to Heavy 3 and from S5 to S6. Not so bad for Destroyers, considering they saw a decrease in point cost and their dedicated stratagem.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
I hate to break it to you, but basically every one of the 'powerful' codices have had this issue of being bland. It comes down simply to Necrons, like Guard or Tau or AdMech, didn't have a whole lot of unit choice to begin with and without introducing a whole slew of new stuff we just weren't going to see a whole lot of interestingly different builds IMO.
Look at the Legions of Nagash book that came out for Death in AoS. It's got plenty flavour, it's fun and appropriate and gives tons of options plus it's pretty strong. GW can make strong books that have flavour to them, it's not like that's impossible. Would it really hurt this book to give crypteks a few more options for wargear, make C'tan powers not the same thing repeated 6 times and maybe change reanimation protocols a bit? Necrons used to have flavour, in the form of the 5th ed book, I don't see why they couldn't have brought forward some things from that book.
Well no, I do see actually. I think it was probably to make it more streamlined, easy to understand and quicker to play. Which is a real shame, for soulless robots necrons actually had tons of flavour, at one point.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
What did you expect that wouldn't be 'bland'? Beyond making new entries or a load of equipment options that weren't present before, I aren't sure what people expected?
Equipment options similar to 5ed codex for crypteks, varied C'tan powers because what there is now is incredibly dull and basically the same effect at different ranges/different targets. Making Monoliths tougher (as they used to be, slow, not that powerful but damn near impossible to kill). Things like the solar pulse making it night fighting. And yes, maybe controversilal, but I really enjoyed line attacks when they were a thing (draw a line between two points and deal damage to models under it).
If this was an online game, the necrons almost feel like a reskin of the generic faction. Almost. We still have a few fun things, it's not as bad as it might sound from my replies but it's pretty depressing seeing this after there were rumours of major reworks.
This leak is really weird. Super Wargamer claims he was authorized to publish the entire (beta) codex weeks in advance of release. This is unprecedented, there's always been an embargo until pre-orders go live, and reviewers weren't permitted to outright show the pages. And he might be off his rocker, saying in Discord he was authorized by "my scarab". And yet GW hasn't yet asked YouTube to remove this video that clearly violates their copyright. None of this makes sense.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
I hate to break it to you, but basically every one of the 'powerful' codices have had this issue of being bland. It comes down simply to Necrons, like Guard or Tau or AdMech, didn't have a whole lot of unit choice to begin with and without introducing a whole slew of new stuff we just weren't going to see a whole lot of interestingly different builds IMO.
Look at the Legions of Nagash book that came out for Death in AoS. It's got plenty flavour, it's fun and appropriate and gives tons of options plus it's pretty strong. GW can make strong books that have flavour to them, it's not like that's impossible. Would it really hurt this book to give crypteks a few more options for wargear, make C'tan powers not the same thing repeated 6 times and maybe change reanimation protocols a bit? Necrons used to have flavour, in the form of the 5th ed book, I don't see why they couldn't have brought forward some things from that book.
Well no, I do see actually. I think it was probably to make it more streamlined, easy to understand and quicker to play. Which is a real shame, for soulless robots necrons actually had tons of flavour, at one point.
Legions of Nagash also incorporates six different factions into one book. Basically everything in there was, potentially, going to be its own army at one point.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
I hate to break it to you, but basically every one of the 'powerful' codices have had this issue of being bland. It comes down simply to Necrons, like Guard or Tau or AdMech, didn't have a whole lot of unit choice to begin with and without introducing a whole slew of new stuff we just weren't going to see a whole lot of interestingly different builds IMO.
Look at the Legions of Nagash book that came out for Death in AoS. It's got plenty flavour, it's fun and appropriate and gives tons of options plus it's pretty strong. GW can make strong books that have flavour to them, it's not like that's impossible. Would it really hurt this book to give crypteks a few more options for wargear, make C'tan powers not the same thing repeated 6 times and maybe change reanimation protocols a bit? Necrons used to have flavour, in the form of the 5th ed book, I don't see why they couldn't have brought forward some things from that book.
Well no, I do see actually. I think it was probably to make it more streamlined, easy to understand and quicker to play. Which is a real shame, for soulless robots necrons actually had tons of flavour, at one point.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
What did you expect that wouldn't be 'bland'? Beyond making new entries or a load of equipment options that weren't present before, I aren't sure what people expected?
Equipment options similar to 5ed codex for crypteks, varied C'tan powers because what there is now is incredibly dull and basically the same effect at different ranges/different targets. Making Monoliths tougher (as they used to be, slow, not that powerful but damn near impossible to kill). Things like the solar pulse making it night fighting. And yes, maybe controversilal, but I really enjoyed line attacks when they were a thing (draw a line between two points and deal damage to models under it).
If this was an online game, the necrons almost feel like a reskin of the generic faction. Almost. We still have a few fun things, it's not as bad as it might sound from my replies but it's pretty depressing seeing this after there were rumours of major reworks.
Sorry to say your expectations were wildly out of kilter with the rest of the edition. Yes the c'tan powers could have been a little more varied, but they provide something the army needs and lacks otherwise without being a must take.
The book seems very well thought out and well rounded but it appears people had the idea the book was going to redefine the wheel of 8th.
Arachnofiend wrote: Starting to think "bland" is just a word people use when they want to complain but have nothing to complain about.
That's what I'm thinking too.
In fact I don't have any complaints outside the Flame Gauntlet not coming back and the CTan powers could've been a little more varied. Flayed Ones get a massive price cut, Praetorians got a good dedicated Strategem, Lychguard are cheap enough to be bodyguards again...
Yeah I'm not actually sure what the deal here is for the word "bland".
Arachnofiend wrote: Starting to think "bland" is just a word people use when they want to complain but have nothing to complain about.
I agree. Also the fluff hasn't been leaked out yet that I know of, so how can they say bland? I think anyone who says bland needs to read the 4th edition codices of Dark Angels, Chaos Space Marines, and not sure if Eldar was in there as well. There is no where near bland at all. While I don't know much about the armies, I can tell this is not bland. Lackluster? I wouldn't say so, but maybe that is the word they should be using instead of bland.
Heck Dark Angels 4th edition takes the cake on bland. Nothing like this compares to any of the books I have mentioned.
I didn't say "bland" but I can see what people are saying.
I'm not seeing any combos of models that make me go "Yeah, I'd love to write a list around that!"
For example, I have a nid list comprised as much as I can of both flying and burrowing models because I like the idea, one comprised of putting as many spore mines as I can into play and the classic Nidzilla where no model has less than 3 wounds. For my daemons I have one with all the non-Greater Daemon characters, one with a focus on mounted models, one based around a bloodthirster with two daemon prince companions.
The necrons I'm struggling to come up with "concepts" I guess. I think a boat list might be cool with lots of barges and arcs. Theres the classic alien invasion list I guess? Maybe stuff will jump out at me later but right now nothing is clicking. I don't like my lists to be "take X amount of a unit, add other units to taste". I like them to feel like they have a reason to exist.
Sim-Life wrote: I didn't say "bland" but I can see what people are saying.
I'm not seeing any combos of models that make me go "Yeah, I'd love to write a list around that!"
For example, I have a nid list comprised as much as I can of both flying and burrowing models because I like the idea, one comprised of putting as many spore mines as I can into play and the classic Nidzilla where no model has less than 3 wounds. For my daemons I have one with all the non-Greater Daemon characters, one with a focus on mounted models, one based around a bloodthirster with two daemon prince companions.
The necrons I'm struggling to come up with "concepts" I guess. I think a boat list might be cool with lots of barges and arcs. Theres the classic alien invasion list I guess? Maybe stuff will jump out at me later but right now nothing is clicking.
A Canoptek Harvest list pretty immediately comes to mind; Nephrekh wraiths are going to be nasty with their 18+2d6" threat range.
To be honest I believe in AoS they have much bigger room to try different things.
Think about for example the Infestation Points in the Nurgle battletome or the Nurgle wheel with different bonuses. Or things like the Destiny Dice in the Tzeentch Battletomes.
They add much flavour to the armies, but at the same time they are very hard to balance.
The approach 40k is taking is different. Factions don't have crazy unique rules like those, but at the same time they are more balanced. I don't think one way of doing it is better than the other, it comes down to personal tastes.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
I hate to break it to you, but basically every one of the 'powerful' codices have had this issue of being bland. It comes down simply to Necrons, like Guard or Tau or AdMech, didn't have a whole lot of unit choice to begin with and without introducing a whole slew of new stuff we just weren't going to see a whole lot of interestingly different builds IMO.
Look at the Legions of Nagash book that came out for Death in AoS. It's got plenty flavour, it's fun and appropriate and gives tons of options plus it's pretty strong. GW can make strong books that have flavour to them, it's not like that's impossible. Would it really hurt this book to give crypteks a few more options for wargear, make C'tan powers not the same thing repeated 6 times and maybe change reanimation protocols a bit? Necrons used to have flavour, in the form of the 5th ed book, I don't see why they couldn't have brought forward some things from that book.
Well no, I do see actually. I think it was probably to make it more streamlined, easy to understand and quicker to play. Which is a real shame, for soulless robots necrons actually had tons of flavour, at one point.
Legions of Nagash also incorporates six different factions into one book. Basically everything in there was, potentially, going to be its own army at one point.
Legions of Nagash is pretty much just Vampire Counts from fantasy. It's not six different factions, it's just the old VC book, which was split into 6 different subfactions for who knows why and then recombined again. The fact that there are multiple different keywords binding certain groups of units has nothing to do with anything.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
I hate to break it to you, but basically every one of the 'powerful' codices have had this issue of being bland. It comes down simply to Necrons, like Guard or Tau or AdMech, didn't have a whole lot of unit choice to begin with and without introducing a whole slew of new stuff we just weren't going to see a whole lot of interestingly different builds IMO.
Look at the Legions of Nagash book that came out for Death in AoS. It's got plenty flavour, it's fun and appropriate and gives tons of options plus it's pretty strong. GW can make strong books that have flavour to them, it's not like that's impossible. Would it really hurt this book to give crypteks a few more options for wargear, make C'tan powers not the same thing repeated 6 times and maybe change reanimation protocols a bit? Necrons used to have flavour, in the form of the 5th ed book, I don't see why they couldn't have brought forward some things from that book.
Well no, I do see actually. I think it was probably to make it more streamlined, easy to understand and quicker to play. Which is a real shame, for soulless robots necrons actually had tons of flavour, at one point.
docdoom77 wrote: Too much salt. Between the Dynastic Codes, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Artefacts, it looks pretty damn good!
It looks competitive, it's probably going to be a pretty strong codex. But, bland as all hell.
It's a game and the majority of people don't go to tournaments, sadly to me this just doesn't look fun.
What did you expect that wouldn't be 'bland'? Beyond making new entries or a load of equipment options that weren't present before, I aren't sure what people expected?
Equipment options similar to 5ed codex for crypteks, varied C'tan powers because what there is now is incredibly dull and basically the same effect at different ranges/different targets. Making Monoliths tougher (as they used to be, slow, not that powerful but damn near impossible to kill). Things like the solar pulse making it night fighting. And yes, maybe controversilal, but I really enjoyed line attacks when they were a thing (draw a line between two points and deal damage to models under it).
If this was an online game, the necrons almost feel like a reskin of the generic faction. Almost. We still have a few fun things, it's not as bad as it might sound from my replies but it's pretty depressing seeing this after there were rumours of major reworks.
Sorry to say your expectations were wildly out of kilter with the rest of the edition. Yes the c'tan powers could have been a little more varied, but they provide something the army needs and lacks otherwise without being a must take.
The book seems very well thought out and well rounded but it appears people had the idea the book was going to redefine the wheel of 8th.
Look, I have no problem with the book being well thought out, rounded, strong, competitive and balanced. That's fine, it seems like it is, it will probably play very nicely against all the other new codexes and will probably provide intense games that are quite close more often than not.
To me what is there doesn't seem as fun as Necrons used to be though.
Yes maybe my expectations were too high and potentially I just have a problem with 8th, that's quite likely. However based on what I have seen GW capable of printing, what we've seen seems to suggest they focused more on balance than giving the player a unique experience with the army.
It is much easier to say "X is unbalanced" or "Y is too expensive for what it does", you can even be objective up to a point with that. Whether you think an army is "fun" is a lot more subjective. From my perspective, as a big fan of Necron lore and feel I think the new rules that we have seen are boring (although maybe very effective) and there have been more interesting Necron codexes in the past.
I realise this might be very well in keeping with other codex releases for 8th and maybe that's just what the game is now...but does that mean my opinion on the rules is invalid? At the very least it should mean something saying that Necrons were more fun to play in the past than what can be seen coming from this book.
Anyway, sure, the points cost changes are welcome, the buff to destroyers is amazing and the buff to the Vault is very much appreciated. That plus maybe now teleporting something out of a Monolith is viable and I absolutely like that. The book does have its strengths, but I maintain that the rules could have been made more interesting.
Edit: @Galas absolutely I agree. 40k is more balanced, yet less fun, IMO, for my personal taste. I'm not saying this book is bad for every gamer (or that it's bad at all) or that it doesn't fit into 8th, but I prefer what AoS is doing currently which is a shame for me as I really enjoyed playing my Necrons from 5th to 7th.
Plus we can all agree on the C'tan powers at least...right?
Yeah 6 methods of dealing some free wounds seems a bit much, a teleport or some battlefield manipulation or debuffs would have spiced it up a little more.
axisofentropy wrote: This leak is really weird. Super Wargamer claims he was authorized to publish the entire (beta) codex weeks in advance of release. This is unprecedented, there's always been an embargo until pre-orders go live, and reviewers weren't permitted to outright show the pages. And he might be off his rocker, saying in Discord he was authorized by "my scarab". And yet GW hasn't yet asked YouTube to remove this video that clearly violates their copyright. None of this makes sense.
Weird. Maybe they want to build hype for Forgebane? Otherwise I got nothin'.
Slashy McTalons wrote: wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.
Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.
Slashy McTalons wrote: wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.
Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.
There is a stratagem that allows a unit to attack again during the combat phase. Some sort of anti-abuse clause on that?
Slashy McTalons wrote: wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.
Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.
There is a stratagem that allows a unit to attack again during the combat phase. Some sort of anti-abuse clause on that?
Sim-Life wrote: I didn't say "bland" but I can see what people are saying.
I'm not seeing any combos of models that make me go "Yeah, I'd love to write a list around that!"
For example, I have a nid list comprised as much as I can of both flying and burrowing models because I like the idea, one comprised of putting as many spore mines as I can into play and the classic Nidzilla where no model has less than 3 wounds. For my daemons I have one with all the non-Greater Daemon characters, one with a focus on mounted models, one based around a bloodthirster with two daemon prince companions.
The necrons I'm struggling to come up with "concepts" I guess. I think a boat list might be cool with lots of barges and arcs. Theres the classic alien invasion list I guess? Maybe stuff will jump out at me later but right now nothing is clicking.
A Canoptek Harvest list pretty immediately comes to mind; Nephrekh wraiths are going to be nasty with their 18+2d6" threat range.
Novokh Flayed ones with a Novokh overlord would be pretty nasty too. I think I like the Immortal Pride trait the most though. It gives DtW and it makes nearby units immune to morale, making it great for warrior blocks.
I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb. Previously, opponents had to only kill 15 dudes to circumvent reanimation protocols.
Slashy McTalons wrote: wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.
Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.
There is a stratagem that allows a unit to attack again during the combat phase. Some sort of anti-abuse clause on that?
Yeah there is. You can only use a strategem once per phase.
drakerocket wrote: I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb.
You know, it's kinda funny, morale mitigation on paper-thin models with flashlight barely capable of hitting a barn was supposedly that game killing OP rule, but as soon as Eldar and Necrons get it, complete with application to a far more dangerous and durable units, it's suddenly no longer a problem. Did the faux baseless outrage finally kicked the bucket?
drakerocket wrote: I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb.
You know, it's kinda funny, morale mitigation on paper-thin models with flashlight barely capable of hitting a barn was supposedly that game killing OP rule, but as soon as Eldar and Necrons get it, complete with application to a far more dangerous and durable units, it's suddenly no longer a problem. Did the faux baseless outrage finally kicked the bucket?
Considering that conscripts are half the price of guardians and a third of necrons...yea...it was still a problem.
drakerocket wrote: I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb.
You know, it's kinda funny, morale mitigation on paper-thin models with flashlight barely capable of hitting a barn was supposedly that game killing OP rule, but as soon as Eldar and Necrons get it, complete with application to a far more dangerous and durable units, it's suddenly no longer a problem. Did the faux baseless outrage finally kicked the bucket?
Because that was exactly the problem? Morale was meant to punish hordes of cheap units, not elite models (3ppm Conscript vs 11/12 Necron Warriors). And Eldar are one of the armies alongside Daemons and Orks that suffers the bigger casualties for morale in the game.
And I love the hyperbole of making cheap units with bad stats look bad in a competitive sense ignoring how mathemathically efficient they where by the virtue of being weak stat-wise but sooo cheap point-wise.
More and more I'm liking the CCB with the lightning field relic. Removes the one weakness of a CCB by giving an invul and gives the bonuses of the CCB. I think that will see action soon.
Several things:
Ghost arks repair multiple units, but can multiple arks repair onto one unit?
Let's say I choose Nemesor Zan as my warlord, I MUST take the hyprelogical strategist warlord trait due to sautekh? I am unable to pick anything else otherwise? Same goes for taking a regular sautekh overlord? I'd have to go 'choose your own dynasty adventure' to get Immortal Pride?
I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units. For example, I play Dark Eldar and I have 3 troops to choose from Kabalites, Wyches and Wracks.
1) Kabalites Squad leader can take various CC weapons along with ranged weapons. I have the option to take enough Kabalites to make a 20 man squad, along with the options of special weapons and heavy weapons.
2) Wych Squad Leader can also change out her ranged weapon and Close Combat weapons. The squad can be 5-20 once again, with a big benefit of 3 special weapons in a 10+ model squad.
3) Wracks can only be 5-10, but at the very least, they have the option of taking Liquifiers or Ossefactors and their squad leader can also change around their weapon loadout.
In comparison, Necrons have Warriors and Immortals. Warriors have no customization loadouts and Immortals can switch weapons but cannot mix and match. The very core of the army is very stagnant.
Where I see the Necron Codex shining though is from it's HQ options and new nasty little tricks in terms of deployment and movement. I saw this mentioned on Reddit, but the stratagem to drop off two units from a Night Scythe? NASTY. Imagine two Full squads of Destroyers being deployed within half range, giving them a further -1AP from their Code, or a full squad with a Destroyer Lord. With another HQ, My Will Be Done gives them a +1 to hit and they can already re-roll 1's to hit. That's a 2+ rerollable to hit, and reroll 1's to wound from the Destroyer Lord. What aren't they going to kill?
Tesla in general with MWBD is going to be just as nasty as my Lelith with Blood Dancer on Turn 3, generating 3+ hits on a 5+ to hit is incredible!
To do the math for you, Imagine a squad of 5 Tomb Blades, (Threat range of 14" movement + 12" Rapid fire btw) Tesla Carbines and MWBD on them. That's 20 shots, the +1 to hit from MWBD makes 2,3 and 4 normal hits. 20(1/2) is 10 hits. 5 and 6 generates 3 hits. 20(1/3)*3 = 20 hits.
From 20 shots, on average, you generate 30 Strength 5, (Ap -1 if you chose that code) Damage 1 shots that have all hit. against T4, that's 20 wounds. That's 6.66 or 10(AP-1) dead marines. Makes me weep that Reavers aren't that good. If you want further mathstuffs, I'll keep it in the necron tactics page.
But yeah, expect Fast Attack to be super full, especially when drunken commander missions are so popular in the meta.
Basically the entire codex. Granted, apparently this is "Beta" so it would be reasonable to expect that some it may change but that would probably be points more than anything else.
Kurgash wrote: Several things:
Ghost arks repair multiple units, but can multiple arks repair onto one unit?
Let's say I choose Nemesor Zan as my warlord, I MUST take the hyprelogical strategist warlord trait due to sautekh? I am unable to pick anything else otherwise? Same goes for taking a regular sautekh overlord? I'd have to go 'choose your own dynasty adventure' to get Immortal Pride?
From the wording, no. It says you can make RP for any units within range of any friendly Ghost Arks, so you don't get to stack them.
I'm going to assume that the characters in this will follow the same rules as all other codexes and that named characters have set WL traits based upon their "legion". Probably that they will get forced into the Sautek one (which is still decent), but since there are so many Sautek characters, it's possible that they might be given different ones - guarantee though you won't be able to pick the trait for named characters.
All the Dynasties seem viable but 2 really stand out.
Mephrit gets the -1 armor saves at half range.
Sautekh essentially gets Tallarn doctrine, the best IG warlord trait of 5+ reclaim CP and a reroll, and the Cadian overlapping fields of fire strategem everyone gets+1 to hit after an unsaved wound is scored
I see a lot of mephrit armies taking a Sautekh warlord.
The real tough choice is -1 armor saves at half range vs 2cp everyone gets +1 to hit a unit after it takes 1 unsaved wound which explodes gauss on a 5+ or 4+ with thy will be done
Barrywise wrote: I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.
Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.
Barrywise wrote: I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.
Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.
Yeah I thought this was kinda the point of Necrons.
People complaining that GW haven't made them fast. Why would they be fast? They are the SLOW RACE. They have low range guns and a mechanic to brign them back as they walk towards you with impending doom.
They don't have weapon options? When did they have weapon options?
Granted there are some things that would be nice. More unique special rules, a really funky reanimation protocol, a more unique monolith (although it is pretty cool imo anyway), and well.. what else?
Barrywise wrote: I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.
Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.
Yeah I thought this was kinda the point of Necrons.
People complaining that GW haven't made them fast. Why would they be fast? They are the SLOW RACE. They have low range guns and a mechanic to brign them back as they walk towards you with impending doom.
They don't have weapon options? When did they have weapon options?
Granted there are some things that would be nice. More unique special rules, a really funky reanimation protocol, a more unique monolith (although it is pretty cool imo anyway), and well.. what else?
Bring back Pariahs!
Nope they are not a SLOW RACE. Their infantry walks slowly and that's it. Always grinds my gears (pun not intended) when people say Necrons or Death in AoS are slow races. Yes Necron warriors, Immortals, lychguard and characters walk slowly, the rest is quite fast and before everyone and their mother got deepstrike options Necrons had the edge in teleporting too. Necrons are not death guard, as befitting the most technologically advanced race in the game they have plenty of options to be fast.
Edit: But I completely agree about Pariahs, awesome idea and would be cool to see how they could be made unique from Lychguard. I don't know, maybe make them a crazy experiment by a cryptek trying to perfect new Lychguard/ infuse necrodermis with a soul?
In the Index, the ability of a Necron army to destroy tanks was rather low.
Hello Necron Warriors, in former editions four glancing hits were sufficient to destroy a LR.
But this was far from being possible with the Index, or did the Necrons get new abilities in the tank department?
Barrywise wrote: I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.
Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.
Yeah I thought this was kinda the point of Necrons.
People complaining that GW haven't made them fast. Why would they be fast? They are the SLOW RACE. They have low range guns and a mechanic to brign them back as they walk towards you with impending doom.
They don't have weapon options? When did they have weapon options?
Granted there are some things that would be nice. More unique special rules, a really funky reanimation protocol, a more unique monolith (although it is pretty cool imo anyway), and well.. what else?
Bring back Pariahs!
Nope they are not a SLOW RACE. Their infantry walks slowly and that's it. Always grinds my gears (pun not intended) when people say Necrons or Death in AoS are slow races. Yes Necron warriors, Immortals, lychguard and characters walk slowly, the rest is quite fast and before everyone and their mother got deepstrike options Necrons had the edge in teleporting too. Necrons are not death guard, as befitting the most technologically advanced race in the game they have plenty of options to be fast.
Edit: But I completely agree about Pariahs, awesome idea and would be cool to see how they could be made unique from Lychguard. I don't know, maybe make them a crazy experiment by a cryptek trying to perfect new Lychguard/ infuse necrodermis with a soul?
I would class that as a slow race... if your entire infantry line is a slow moving, low range machine.
Sure destroyers, wraiths and spiders were faster, but they aren't exactly beating any land records and lore wise are usually scouting or support units, not the main force.
Monolith is slow. All infantry units are slow.
Yes they have teleporting.. and then they walk slowly from the teleport zone. They are alpha strike into slow moving screens. Not speedy Eldar jetbikes
Sim-Life wrote: I didn't say "bland" but I can see what people are saying.
I'm not seeing any combos of models that make me go "Yeah, I'd love to write a list around that!"
For example, I have a nid list comprised as much as I can of both flying and burrowing models because I like the idea, one comprised of putting as many spore mines as I can into play and the classic Nidzilla where no model has less than 3 wounds. For my daemons I have one with all the non-Greater Daemon characters, one with a focus on mounted models, one based around a bloodthirster with two daemon prince companions.
The necrons I'm struggling to come up with "concepts" I guess. I think a boat list might be cool with lots of barges and arcs. Theres the classic alien invasion list I guess? Maybe stuff will jump out at me later but right now nothing is clicking. I don't like my lists to be "take X amount of a unit, add other units to taste". I like them to feel like they have a reason to exist.
Personally, I'm building a Bone Kingdom of Drazak army using the Novokh stuff. Mostly loads and loads of Flayed Ones and Destroyers. It's basically Horror Movie Necrons. I think this is going to work out well for me.
We feel only hatred and a hunger that can never be assuaged. Mwhahaha
Automatically Appended Next Post:
wuestenfux wrote: In the Index, the ability of a Necron army to destroy tanks was rather low.
Hello Necron Warriors, in former editions four glancing hits were sufficient to destroy a LR.
But this was far from being possible with the Index, or did the Necrons get new abilities in the tank department?
There is no point in this ability in 8th, since there is no difference between vehicles and monstrous critters. The old rule was a way to represent them ignoring armor.
Just looking at things, Mephrit warriors and immortals should do pretty well at killing big things (not "vehicles") en masse. Destroyers look really good. The Doomsday Cannon has probably the best profile in the game (it's a Pulse Driver Cannon with AP 5).
Yes they have teleporting.. and then they walk slowly from the teleport zone. They are alpha strike into slow moving screens. Not speedy Eldar jetbikes
Well, Necrons do have speedy jetbikes (probably not as speedy as Eldar ones, but still....)
Can Eldar take Jetbikes as troops these days? I do not have an Eldar codex and do not pay them much attention, but special abilities to take X as troops are a lot rarer these days. Of course you can take detachments that give you more FA slots instead, but that option is open to any army...
With Wraiths, Scarabs, 2 kinds of aircraft, Destroyers, Praetorians, Tomb Blades, Barges and a Cryptek surfing on a jet-scarab I think a mobility-themed Necron army is at least a possibility
To me it is starting to look like all the flavour is in the special characters and dynasty traits.
I noticed Vargard Obyron can deepstrike himself and another unit to within 1" of an enemy unit. I don't know many of the codex inside out but this seems to break the trend of 9"?
drakerocket wrote: I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb. Previously, opponents had to only kill 15 dudes to circumvent reanimation protocols.
vim_the_good wrote: To me it is starting to look like all the flavour is in the special characters and dynasty traits.
I noticed Vargard Obyron can deepstrike himself and another unit to within 1" of an enemy unit. I don't know many of the codex inside out but this seems to break the trend of 9"?
drakerocket wrote: I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb. Previously, opponents had to only kill 15 dudes to circumvent reanimation protocols.
You could always spend 2 CP to auto-pass morale.
for just 1 unit. I'd rather save that cp for something useful and just stick a dude within 6" of the warlord and not worry about it.
vim_the_good wrote: To me it is starting to look like all the flavour is in the special characters and dynasty traits.
I noticed Vargard Obyron can deepstrike himself and another unit to within 1" of an enemy unit. I don't know many of the codex inside out but this seems to break the trend of 9"?
Vim
Nightscythe Invasion Beams do the same
Well, invasion beams are like disembarking from a vehicle, which you definitely can do close to the enemy, because you had to get the vehicle up to the enemy in the first place.
Obyron is similar, but he is "disembarking" from Zandrekh, in a manner of speaking. You still have to get Zandrekh up to the enemy...
<edit> though you could use this to spam units more quickly from a Nightscythe or Monolith - they deploy Zandrekh from the tombworld during your movement phase, and then at the end of the phase Obyron and 30 warriors (or whatever you fancy) comes over to join them from behind your lines... </edit>
Then add in the "double teleport" strategem, someone flying in another unit under the telleporting cloak, and a unit of failed ones popping up to say Hello, and you can have quite the force popping into an enemy flank...
<further edit> although from what people are saying, appearing from invasion beams and monoliths counts as reenforcements, so unlike disembarking you don't get to move afterwards. Still OK for charging nearby units or rapid firing, I guess...
Looking at the datasheets, there are some things i see that make me think this is old or fake. There are different pieces of artwork or designs that cover up some of the text. And stalkers and praetorians don't have the dynasty keyword. I'm not sure if that is intentional?
battlelurker wrote: Looking at the datasheets, there are some things i see that make me think this is old or fake. There are different pieces of artwork or designs that cover up some of the text. And stalkers and praetorians don't have the dynasty keyword. I'm not sure if that is intentional?
Stalkers and Praets didn't have the keyword in the index either. Its intentional.
battlelurker wrote: Looking at the datasheets, there are some things i see that make me think this is old or fake. There are different pieces of artwork or designs that cover up some of the text. And stalkers and praetorians don't have the dynasty keyword. I'm not sure if that is intentional?
Stalkers and Praets didn't have the keyword in the index either. Its intentional.
battlelurker wrote: Looking at the datasheets, there are some things i see that make me think this is old or fake. There are different pieces of artwork or designs that cover up some of the text. And stalkers and praetorians don't have the dynasty keyword. I'm not sure if that is intentional?
Stalkers and Praets didn't have the keyword in the index either. Its intentional.
Ah. haven't played necrons since 7th.
Even as far back as 5th edition when they were introduced, Praetorians were never a part of a dynasty but the police force of the Triarch, the ruling council of the Necrontyr empire.
The only thing that makes me think the leak might be false in a couple of ways (I know it's a beta which probably explains it), is the Lychguard and Deathmark entries have the Elites symbol, but are down as Troops on the points page. Not sure why that would be.
That said, the warhammer community confirmation of the cloak rules matches with the leak, so it might be more accurate than I thought.
Scarey Nerd wrote: The only thing that makes me think the leak might be false in a couple of ways (I know it's a beta which probably explains it), is the Lychguard and Deathmark entries have the Elites symbol, but are down as Troops on the points page. Not sure why that would be.
That said, the warhammer community confirmation of the cloak rules matches with the leak, so it might be more accurate than I thought.
The same 'leak' also had all five Dynastic Codes - word for word - before GW posted them on Warhammer Community.
Why does the Cryptek even have a healing ability in Forgebane?
What a really weird set to give him a wound healing ability that doens't bring back models and not put it in with a vehicle based set.. or at least high wound count models like a destroyer.
Jacob29 wrote: Why does the Cryptek even have a healing ability in Forgebane?
What a really weird set to give him a wound healing ability that doens't bring back models and not put it in with a vehicle based set.. or at least high wound count models like a destroyer.
I think it's mostly for the flying, but it is strange. Maybe he can heal himself?
Destroyers don't have living metal, so they wouldn't be able to receive the heal.
Jacob29 wrote: Why does the Cryptek even have a healing ability in Forgebane?
What a really weird set to give him a wound healing ability that doens't bring back models and not put it in with a vehicle based set.. or at least high wound count models like a destroyer.
I think it's mostly for the flying, but it is strange. Maybe he can heal himself?
Destroyers don't have living metal, so they wouldn't be able to receive the heal.
The wording of "choose a friendly..." has always confused me. Did this end up being resolved as counting for yourself or not? I'm sure the answer is around somewhere.
And also oops on Destroyers not having Living Metal..
Much offensive power added but few in the way of staying alive. Our 10-immortals squads will still be pulverised in a single round like before, and no way of bringing a dead unit back as i think was needed. Some points:
1- Can 5-immortals units be viable? To get 2 bataillons and 6 CP to use these stratagem? I guess people will tend to overshoot some units and undershoot other in attempts to whipe them all out at ounce, if you got 1 survivor in 4-5 units you can roll some serious RP! Vanilla Cryptek are cheap too.
2- Doomsday ark waaayyyy better (double better). Triarch stalker a little better. Heavy destroyers cheaper. Now we have a way to hit hard. Quantum protocol make way to have pretty effective vehicule armies.
3- I already liked C'Tan nightbringer. Now casting twice with some new powers i will just auto-include the bastard all the time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah keep a command barge + warcythe available to deal the final blow on magnus with that entropic force stratagem!
Scarey Nerd wrote: The only thing that makes me think the leak might be false in a couple of ways (I know it's a beta which probably explains it), is the Lychguard and Deathmark entries have the Elites symbol, but are down as Troops on the points page. Not sure why that would be.
That said, the warhammer community confirmation of the cloak rules matches with the leak, so it might be more accurate than I thought.
The same 'leak' also had all five Dynastic Codes - word for word - before GW posted them on Warhammer Community.
Ahh, I wasn't aware that the big leak had come out before the community post, I thought the leak of the dynastic codes page had come separately. In that case... Man I need more Destroyers
Scarey Nerd wrote: The only thing that makes me think the leak might be false in a couple of ways (I know it's a beta which probably explains it), is the Lychguard and Deathmark entries have the Elites symbol, but are down as Troops on the points page. Not sure why that would be.
That said, the warhammer community confirmation of the cloak rules matches with the leak, so it might be more accurate than I thought.
The same 'leak' also had all five Dynastic Codes - word for word - before GW posted them on Warhammer Community.
Ahh, I wasn't aware that the big leak had come out before the community post, I thought the leak of the dynastic codes page had come separately. In that case... Man I need more Destroyers
The YouTube leak didn't. It's the pic of the Dynastic Codes that came out before the Warhammer Community post.
Jacob29 wrote: Why does the Cryptek even have a healing ability in Forgebane?
What a really weird set to give him a wound healing ability that doens't bring back models and not put it in with a vehicle based set.. or at least high wound count models like a destroyer.
Because the "two forces designed to be played against each other as-is" is not the primary point of the box.
Scarey Nerd wrote: The only thing that makes me think the leak might be false in a couple of ways (I know it's a beta which probably explains it), is the Lychguard and Deathmark entries have the Elites symbol, but are down as Troops on the points page. Not sure why that would be.
That said, the warhammer community confirmation of the cloak rules matches with the leak, so it might be more accurate than I thought.
The same 'leak' also had all five Dynastic Codes - word for word - before GW posted them on Warhammer Community.
Ahh, I wasn't aware that the big leak had come out before the community post, I thought the leak of the dynastic codes page had come separately. In that case... Man I need more Destroyers
The YouTube leak didn't. It's the pic of the Dynastic Codes that came out before the Warhammer Community post.
All from the same guy too, Super Wargamer. He also leaked the new Cryptek via his digital model for Tabletop Simulator before the mini was announced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=217JTaqhMdQ
Jacob29 wrote: Why does the Cryptek even have a healing ability in Forgebane?
What a really weird set to give him a wound healing ability that doens't bring back models and not put it in with a vehicle based set.. or at least high wound count models like a destroyer.
I think at least partially it's thematic. Crypteks are like tech-priests in the Imperium, and this gives him the ability to repair vehicles (or rather enhance their self-repairing) as well as be a medic for Necron nobility...
oh, sorry ... misunderstood the question. Box sets often have questionable choices - I remember the Chaos Space Marines vs (X marine chapter) boxed set from a few years back with the most insanely overpriced Chosen squad in existence...
To do the math for you, Imagine a squad of 5 Tomb Blades, (Threat range of 14" movement + 12" Rapid fire btw) Tesla Carbines and MWBD on them. That's 20 shots, the +1 to hit from MWBD makes 2,3 and 4 normal hits. 20(1/2) is 10 hits. 5 and 6 generates 3 hits. 20(1/3)*3 = 20 hits.
From 20 shots, on average, you generate 30 Strength 5, (Ap -1 if you chose that code) Damage 1 shots that have all hit. against T4, that's 20 wounds. That's 6.66 or 10(AP-1) dead marines. Makes me weep that Reavers aren't that good. If you want further mathstuffs, I'll keep it in the necron tactics page.
MWBD infantry only; Tomb blades are bikes. Works with immortals though.
hvg3akaek wrote: But hey, I'd still like the cryptek cloak to be available for the lord/warlord, too
It would be nice, but I feel that's what the Destroyer Lord and CCB are for.
-
Yep. But it would be cool to do a warlord / cryptek cloak conversion. See that general "Start Collecting" warlord hovering over the mini-spyder skimmer thing
The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
I agree wraiths suffer from the many mortal wound sources out there ignoring their good save (I also lost my last squad to Smite). Would be good if they could take gloom prisms like spiders.
How come your not playing with beta smite rules yet? May as well.... its coming soon. Psychic smite heavy armies really lose their effectiveness because of this. Ironically we are the new MW spam army, granted biovores do it better but thats a specific and niche build.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
Yep, they did seem to drop almost 40% in durability, and are now no longer the most durable units (by points). That goes to tomb blades (only better with the shieldvanes!).
But Wraiths are still sturdy - just no where near where they were before. And especially not against mortal wounds :(
But their (melee) damage has more than doubled, so, yay?
Well, in former editions I used my Wraiths mainly to tie up a premium cc enemy unit if any.
This worked usually very well.
But these days, the Wraiths seem to be too expensive for this task.
Klowny wrote: How come your not playing with beta smite rules yet? May as well.... its coming soon. Psychic smite heavy armies really lose their effectiveness because of this. Ironically we are the new MW spam army, granted biovores do it better but thats a specific and niche build.
For GK maybe, but we'll see if they do anything for them. If you're relying on smite to do work you'll have a bad time. Thousand Sons have so many spells that I can barely have room to cast smith more than twice.
I have played Necrons against a GK army with the new beta smite rules and I can tell you that the Wraiths had no problems with hit.
You have to also remember that everyone has 40-100 point 3W models that will be affected by mortal wounds. It's just part of the game. Counter with mortal wounds of your own.
Formosa wrote: Thats me cancelling the purchase of a Necron army, the book suffers from 8th syndrome, boring, bland, uninspired and yet another book that lacked a design team that actually cared about the faction.
Seems like.
Nevertheless, I'll order the codex (in English as always).
But I guess I will the Necrons keep shelved. Not sure though.
Somebody eager to play them?
Formosa wrote: Thats me cancelling the purchase of a Necron army, the book suffers from 8th syndrome, boring, bland, uninspired and yet another book that lacked a design team that actually cared about the faction.
Seems like.
Nevertheless, I'll order the codex (in English as always).
But I guess I will the Necrons keep shelved. Not sure though.
Somebody eager to play them?
I'm eager to bust my old robots out again. The stratagems look like fun, the Dynasty codes look like cool tricks, and I love the feel of RP in 8th. Lots of old school vibes and new tricks to the army. Also Scarabs can explode again. This makes me happy.
I'm definitely looking forward trying the new codex. I'm trying to finish my converted Flayed Ones now, not because they are very strong but because I love the idea of ancient insane murder robots dressing up in people's skin.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
This month they are tackling smite in the new FAQ adjustment. There is the beta version of +1 per casting and then I have heard they might just make it 7+
If they go the second route that should make smite far less successful.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
This month they are tackling smite in the new FAQ adjustment. There is the beta version of +1 per casting and then I have heard they might just make it 7+
If they go the second route that should make smite far less successful.
When are they going to release that FAQ? Its already mid March.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
This month they are tackling smite in the new FAQ adjustment. There is the beta version of +1 per casting and then I have heard they might just make it 7+
If they go the second route that should make smite far less successful.
When are they going to release that FAQ? Its already mid March.
Facebook post indicated they're waiting until after Adepticon, which makes sense, but that means the FAQ will probably be released on the 31st, which is kind of hilarious.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
This month they are tackling smite in the new FAQ adjustment. There is the beta version of +1 per casting and then I have heard they might just make it 7+
If they go the second route that should make smite far less successful.
When are they going to release that FAQ? Its already mid March.
Facebook post indicated they're waiting until after Adepticon, which makes sense, but that means the FAQ will probably be released on the 31st, which is kind of hilarious.
Tokhuah wrote: If the Codex is 100% consistent with the leaks it will confirm my intent to mothball 40K completely until 9th edition.
An 8K Necron force silently trudges into the tomb world...
Meanwhile I'm motivated to dig mine out of storage after it was too overpowered to use last edition and too lacking in anti-vehicle in the index.
There's some people saying the codex lacks flavour, but honestly I think it has more than it did in 7th. Not gonna claim it's perfect, some things still overpriced, crypteks are never going to return to their 5th ed glory days and reanimation is in a weird setup that means we aren't really a durability army right now, but overall pretty solid and flexible.
Well, I am thinking of restarting my necron army after a long hiatus. I mean, playing marines gets old after a while. I used to use them as allied forces with my CSM. Now I might expand them into a full army and see how it goes.
Necrons have lots of flavour. They just have some weaknesses which people are hoping the codex will address of course.
I'm hearing so many echoes of when the 5th edition codex was released... so many negative comments.
For that matter, I hear much the same about the recent Tyranid Codex... you know, the one that has placed 3 players in the top 10 of the ITC right now.
Ultimately, I suspect that this codex will reward good play, but not have a list that will take a mid-table player to the top of a large tourney. It seems fairly balanced with the other codexes that have come out. We'll see where the final points fall (the leak is a beta version, after all...)
I'm wondering about the viability of Obyron with a squad of Lychguard, and an Overlord with Veil of Darkness and a unit of Immortals alphastriking the enemy while Monolith or Doomscythe races up with a blob squad for reinforcements. Add in some heavy destroyers and tomb blades as mobile gap fillers.
Lord/Immortals at 9 inches shooting things up, Obyron and Lychguard at 1 inch and ready to almost guarantee a charge. Done correctly they could eliminate any threat to the advancing Doomscythe and Heavy Destroyers.
Tokhuah wrote: If the Codex is 100% consistent with the leaks it will confirm my intent to mothball 40K completely until 9th edition.
An 8K Necron force silently trudges into the tomb world...
Meanwhile I'm motivated to dig mine out of storage after it was too overpowered to use last edition and too lacking in anti-vehicle in the index.
There's some people saying the codex lacks flavour, but honestly I think it has more than it did in 7th. Not gonna claim it's perfect, some things still overpriced, crypteks are never going to return to their 5th ed glory days and reanimation is in a weird setup that means we aren't really a durability army right now, but overall pretty solid and flexible.
would've liked to see D3 damage on Tesla Destructors and Spheres but other than that I fully agree.
cuda1179 wrote: I'm wondering about the viability of Obyron with a squad of Lychguard, and an Overlord with Veil of Darkness and a unit of Immortals alphastriking the enemy while Monolith or Doomscythe races up with a blob squad for reinforcements. Add in some heavy destroyers and tomb blades as mobile gap fillers.
Lord/Immortals at 9 inches shooting things up, Obyron and Lychguard at 1 inch and ready to almost guarantee a charge. Done correctly they could eliminate any threat to the advancing Doomscythe and Heavy Destroyers.
Do you guys remember the Deceiver Bomb list? Obyron, Zahndrek, the Deceiver, and a squad of Lychguard able to get a 6 inch charge off? I can only feel more confident in that list, with Oberyon giving an aura of reroll to hit of 1's... it takes that list from good to scary. Still incredibly expensive, but scary.
Formosa wrote: Thats me cancelling the purchase of a Necron army, the book suffers from 8th syndrome, boring, bland, uninspired and yet another book that lacked a design team that actually cared about the faction.
I'm torn as well.
After Forgebane and reading the Necron Dynasty-codes I was really feeling like building a Novokh dynasty (melee-focused) Necron army.
After reading the beta-codex however, the hype almost died completely:
Flayed Ones are still overpriced garbage. 4+ save unit without shooting for 17 ppm? Sign me up.
Lychguard still suffer from everything they suffered from in the Index. (Slow, expensive, worse than Wraiths in most scenarios, need a babysitter with Veil.)
Praetorians lack the Dynasty keyword so don't benefit from the much needed rerolls.
C'tans lack the Dynasty keyword so don't benefit from the much needed rerolls.
Which leaves the Canoptek-units and "beatstick"-characters to take advantage of the dynasty code.... yay?
I honestly prefer Wraiths to be 38ppm w/ AP -2 D1 rather then 55ppm w/ AP -2 D2.
for roughly the same points cost;
2 Beta Wraiths costs 110pts basic which grants you 6 S6 -2 D2 attacks.
3 Forgebane/Codex Wraiths costs 114pts basic which grants you 9 S6 -2 D1 attacks.
So, the Beta Wraiths would produce more damage which would be better against singular models or models with 2+ wounds. The Forgebane/Codex Wraiths will produce more attacks which will be better if against models with 1 wound or against stuff like chaff/screens and GEQs.
Having D2 over D1 would have been better. Obviously. But, it isn't worth an extra 17pts.
From what I can math out with all the point drops in hq's, heavy choices and weapons, the feeling of overcosted units is pretty much nill. Had a list that dropped by roughly 130pts alone. Definitely excited to see the finished product.
Kurgash wrote: From what I can math out with all the point drops in hq's, heavy choices and weapons, the feeling of overcosted units is pretty much nill. Had a list that dropped by roughly 130pts alone. Definitely excited to see the finished product.
Same here - I built a 1500 points Destroyer list for an upcoming campaign that's dropped by like 270 points.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Wraiths are disappointing.
They got a hugh price increase to 55 pts (+17) due to their new damage potential (AP-2, D2) and offensive abilities (retreat from cc and shoot/charge).
But they are as vulnerable as they were before.
I loose mine often as a result of ''smite''.
Opinions?
This month they are tackling smite in the new FAQ adjustment. There is the beta version of +1 per casting and then I have heard they might just make it 7+
If they go the second route that should make smite far less successful.
When are they going to release that FAQ? Its already mid March.
Facebook post indicated they're waiting until after Adepticon, which makes sense, but that means the FAQ will probably be released on the 31st, which is kind of hilarious.
Makes it feel more like an April FAQ. lol.
Oh god, that means we will all be reading it on April fools. Queue all the people claiming it is fake hahaha
Anpu-adom wrote: Wishlisting on the Monolith: 2+ save, quantum shielding, and adds a -1 to every psychic role within 18 inches
That would make Monolith's almost autotake, LOL.
Yeaah that's a bit much. There's a good reason why QS tends to go on low T, low save vehicles. I would drop the QS. 2+ save is fine though. I mean, the LR has a 2+, and the monolith is basically a necron land raider.
As odd as it may sound, I don't want it to have a transport keyword. I like that the necrons don't have conventional transport vehicles.
Anpu-adom wrote: Wishlisting on the Monolith:
2+ save, quantum shielding, and adds a -1 to every psychic role within 18 inches
That would make Monolith's almost autotake, LOL.
Yeaah that's a bit much. There's a good reason why QS tends to go on low T, low save vehicles.
I would drop the QS. 2+ save is fine though. I mean, the LR has a 2+, and the monolith is basically a necron land raider.
As odd as it may sound, I don't want it to have a transport keyword. I like that the necrons don't have conventional transport vehicles.
Anpu-adom wrote: Wishlisting on the Monolith:
2+ save, quantum shielding, and adds a -1 to every psychic role within 18 inches
That would make Monolith's almost autotake, LOL.
Yeaah that's a bit much. There's a good reason why QS tends to go on low T, low save vehicles.
I would drop the QS. 2+ save is fine though. I mean, the LR has a 2+, and the monolith is basically a necron land raider.
As odd as it may sound, I don't want it to have a transport keyword. I like that the necrons don't have conventional transport vehicles.
My ghost ark takes exception to that statement.
Eh, its still not really conventional, as the transport function is really just a way to safely repair warriors.
Its not really like other transports, where you can mount anything you want in it and go objective stealing.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: . I like that the necrons don't have conventional transport vehicles.
Is having Lychguard transported into position along with the guy they're bodyguarding from a fluff perspective and being buffed by from a mechanical perspective really so much to ask?
I’d just like for the monolith to be be more durable. Something like, reduce the damage value of all weapons hitting the monolith by 1 (to a minimum of 0). Just something so it requires actual anti-tank weapons to take down. The same for landraiders.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: . I like that the necrons don't have conventional transport vehicles.
Is having Lychguard transported into position along with the guy they're bodyguarding from a fluff perspective and being buffed by from a mechanical perspective really so much to ask?
Or they could just instantly appear at the lord's side. With the technology that necrons are confirmed to have. Why would you ride around in a metal box like primitives, when you can teleport?
I mean really, necrons should have deep strike nearly across the board. I really think that GW should just copy DzC and give the Necrons shaltari gate tech. Because that's how they should get around.
The new Start Collecting is definitely better than the old one. Two Necron Overlords(or one Catacomb Command Barge), 12 Warriors, 5 Immortals, and an Annihilation Barge(or not if you do the CCB). Combine that with the Forgebane stuff and you will have a decent starting army. It will give you enough for a Battalion Detachment if you build two Squads of Immortals.
Even as someone without a Necron army, I might pick one up to go with my Forgebane stuff.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The second Lord/Overlord comes from the CCB/Annihilation Barge kit. Whether or not you have him is dependent on how you build that kit.
Anpu-adom wrote: Yeah, that is a great starter for Necrons. 2 of those makes a battalion. Three is really close to a brigade (needing only elites).
On the monolith, I did say it was wishlisting.
About the monolith: it would be good if it got something though. Either 2+ save or a points drop, maybe 2 or 3 extra wounds...just something. I do think Quantum Shielding is too much though, especially as the monolith never used any energy shields so it wouldn't fit lore wise. A 2+ save or some form of psychic shenanigans (psykers withing 12 or 15 inches get -1 to their psychic attempts?) would be lore appropriate and competitive without being silly.
That's a nice SC box. As an added bonus the lack of Triarch units means everything in there will benefit from the new Dynasty rules. But the inclusion of Warriors means there current kit and the clear green rods are probably sticking around for a while yet.
GoatboyBeta wrote: That's a nice SC box. As an added bonus the lack of Triarch units means everything in there will benefit from the new Dynasty rules. But the inclusion of Warriors means there current kit and the clear green rods are probably sticking around for a while yet.
That is assuming they don't fix the No Dynasty rule for Triarch units. I still want to make Triarch Praetorians instead of Lychguard. I like the pistol and sword variant.
GoatboyBeta wrote: That's a nice SC box. As an added bonus the lack of Triarch units means everything in there will benefit from the new Dynasty rules. But the inclusion of Warriors means there current kit and the clear green rods are probably sticking around for a while yet.
That is assuming they don't fix the No Dynasty rule for Triarch units. I still want to make Triarch Praetorians instead of Lychguard. I like the pistol and sword variant.
I wouldn't assume that the "No Dynasty rule for Triarch units" is going to get fixed. They, per the beta rules, don't prevent Dynasty units from getting their benefits--they're basically the Tempestus and other Advisors of the Necron book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgebane was just the beginning – across the galaxy, an ancient evil is rising. Next week, you’ll be able to pre-order Codex: Necrons, your complete guide to the 41st Millennium’s oldest living (or is that unliving?) race.
Over the years, the Necrons have evolved and developed as a faction, and today they’re a richly realised part of the fabric of Warhammer 40,000. Codex: Necrons is the next step in that evolution, providing new rules that’ll allow you to customise your army more than ever before, whether you’re dedicating your force to a particular dynasty or combining your favourite units with new Stratagems.
To help you commemorate the occasion, Codex: Necrons is being released in lavishly realised collector’s edition – if you’re a dedicated fan, make sure to grab your copy before stocks run out!
Additionally, with so many new Stratagems (not to mention Powers of the C’tan) coming out, there’s a set of datacards on the way to help you keep track of them mid-game, allowing you to plan your strategies like a true phaeron!
That’s not all – as if Forgebane didn’t offer enough savings, there’s a new Start Collecting! set on its way for Necrons, featuring a specially selected set of units for kicking off your army. With enough for not one but two Patrol Detachments in the same set, it’s a pretty great way to expand an existing collection too.
We’re super excited about Codex: Necrons, and so, all next week, we’ll be running in-depth previews of the book, looking at the Dynastic Codes and some particularly improved new units – in the meantime, let us know what you’re looking forward to most on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook
hobojebus wrote: Haven't they learnt no ones buying those collectors editions yet? It's not worth it when the books replaced in a year.
You don't buy the collectors codex for the current rules. You buy them because you love the faction.
It's a way of showing your gaming group/store that you love the army etc. Otherwise, yeah, there is no point in spending double the cost of a codex for nothing extra in return (well, you get a ribbon and some fancy cover art)
That's a really good box. 2 troops, potentially 2 HQs, the scarabs and the barge. Wow. They are really making it easy to start a necron force. I wonder what the price will be. I could see people mass buying those just for the cheap troops.
Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: That's a really good box. 2 troops, potentially 2 HQs, the scarabs and the barge. Wow. They are really making it easy to start a necron force. I wonder what the price will be. I could see people mass buying those just for the cheap troops.
The price should be the same as all other Start Collecting boxes (i.e. $140 AUD or whatever your local currency is in)
Value is quite good, you basically get the annihilation barge for free.
2 of these and Forgebane will get you a sizable Battalion as a decent starting point
Yeah, it's a start collecting box, so it'll cost as much as any other start collecting box. And honestly, the old one was pretty poor. This one is much better, both in savings and in units you get.
hobojebus wrote: Haven't they learnt no ones buying those collectors editions yet? It's not worth it when the books replaced in a year.
You don't buy the collectors codex for the current rules. You buy them because you love the faction.
It's a way of showing your gaming group/store that you love the army etc. Otherwise, yeah, there is no point in spending double the cost of a codex for nothing extra in return (well, you get a ribbon and some fancy cover art)
I do that by placing well painted models on the board, some of which I've had over 20 years, books come and go my lead Bjorn is forever.
Geifer wrote: Yeah, it's a start collecting box, so it'll cost as much as any other start collecting box. And honestly, the old one was pretty poor. This one is much better, both in savings and in units you get.
The same could be said for a lot of them at this point. Hopefully they take this opportunity to go back and revise some more of them.
Would be nice to get a Guard, AdMech, and Tempestus rejig. Without the Formations in them they're kinda lackluster now.
hobojebus wrote: Haven't they learnt no ones buying those collectors editions yet? It's not worth it when the books replaced in a year.
You don't buy the collectors codex for the current rules. You buy them because you love the faction.
It's a way of showing your gaming group/store that you love the army etc. Otherwise, yeah, there is no point in spending double the cost of a codex for nothing extra in return (well, you get a ribbon and some fancy cover art)
I do that by placing well painted models on the board, some of which I've had over 20 years, books come and go my lead Bjorn is forever.
No one cares. If they didn't sell GW wouldn't make them.
Geifer wrote: Yeah, it's a start collecting box, so it'll cost as much as any other start collecting box. And honestly, the old one was pretty poor. This one is much better, both in savings and in units you get.
The same could be said for a lot of them at this point. Hopefully they take this opportunity to go back and revise some more of them.
Would be nice to get a Guard, AdMech, and Tempestus rejig. Without the Formations in them they're kinda lackluster now.
I guess. I've not really paid attention to half of these. What's wrong with Tempestus? That's literally the entire sub-faction in one box, isn't it?
Skitarii is a nice box because the Onager is so expensive on its own. Nobody needs a pile of Domini, though. Enginseer would have been a better choice.
I suspect that Necrons are getting a new box because the old one simply didn't sell. You don't need several Overlords, Warriors are a dime a dozen and haven't been appealing next to Immortals in a while and the Stalker doesn't seem all that desirable either. With all ther other kits I can see greater value than Necrons had (even if twelve Cadians is just stupid for a horde army starter set)
Geifer wrote: Yeah, it's a start collecting box, so it'll cost as much as any other start collecting box. And honestly, the old one was pretty poor. This one is much better, both in savings and in units you get.
The same could be said for a lot of them at this point. Hopefully they take this opportunity to go back and revise some more of them.
Would be nice to get a Guard, AdMech, and Tempestus rejig. Without the Formations in them they're kinda lackluster now.
I guess. I've not really paid attention to half of these. What's wrong with Tempestus? That's literally the entire sub-faction in one box, isn't it?
Same thing that's wrong with the Guard one: The Commissar takes the place of something that could have been more useful. Guard could have had a Cadian Command Squad in lieu of the Commissar; basically the only reason there's a HWT in there is that they used the old stock of the single Heavy Weapon Team boxes($16 each) to make it so that you can include a Heavy Weapons Team in the Infantry Squad. That's $16 out of the $115.50 value on the SC: AM box devoted to what is for basically every other army present on their sprues. The age of the Cadian range has long been an issue in this regard, you need three different boxes(Command Squad, Infantry Squad, and Heavy Weapons Squad) to cover all of the options available to a single Infantry Squad.
Tempestus really should have just been a third box of Scions. That would give you 2 squads of 5, a Tempestor Prime, and a Command Squad plus the Taurox Prime: Literally a Patrol Detachment of Tempestus. And now that the Commissars have been given their own keyword(Officio Prefectus), I'd rather they GTFO those two boxes.
Skitarii is a nice box because the Onager is so expensive on its own. Nobody needs a pile of Domini, though. Enginseer would have been a better choice.
And that's precisely what's wrong with Skitarii. It was designed with the old Formation, being a cheap way for you to blend the two factions(Skitarii and AdMech) together and to alleviate the nonsensical whining that "Skitarii don't have an HQ! halps! how play?!".
AdMech is all one faction now. The Onager, while a good pick and being "so expensive on its own", is a Heavy Support slot that costs you $66(which if you ever build one...it kinda lives up to that price) and used to come in squadrons of up to 3. In comparison, Kataphron are a Troops choice and cost you a whopping $58 for 3.
Ditch the Dominus, replace it with an Enginseer and either remove the Onager or add a box of Kataphron to it as well. Moar value!
I suspect that Necrons are getting a new box because the old one simply didn't sell. You don't need several Overlords, Warriors are a dime a dozen and haven't been appealing next to Immortals in a while and the Stalker doesn't seem all that desirable either. With all ther other kits I can see greater value than Necrons had (even if twelve Cadians is just stupid for a horde army starter set)
It's a bit of sour grapes for me, personally, but I'm glad to see they're open to altering the contents of the SC boxes to make them more appealing. The AdMech, Tempestus, and Guard ones are just pet peeves of mine. Companies that aren't open to altering the contents of their 'starter' products to coincide with the armies themselves are even more of a pet peeve though.
It's funny you mention the Stalker though, as that model is what made me consider a Necron Start Collecting at one point for a SC painting challenge. It actually seems to have been more of a draw than not for people to get that set.
Necron players - was tempted to pick up two ForgeBane and one of the new Start Collecting sets. Is this a sensible starting position for a Necron force or too many of the wrong units?
By what possible metric is an enginseer better value than a Dominus? You don't need a pile of either, but from a model perspective it's smaller and comes with less conversion parts, and from a gaming perspective an enginseer is complete dead weight in an army, serving only to save you from needing to pay full price for a second Dominus.
Aeneades wrote: Necron players - was tempted to pick up two ForgeBane and one of the new Start Collecting sets. Is this a sensible starting position for a Necron force or too many of the wrong units?
Thanks
So that would be an Overlord, Command Barge/Annihilation Barge, 2 Crypteks, 12 Warriors, 15 Immortals/Deathmarks, 10 Lychguard/Triarch Praetorians, 6 Wraiths, 3 Scarabs.
Sounds pretty decent to me, I'd probably add more Warriors and Scarabs to increase their unit size, and they conveniently come in the same box.
Kanluwen wrote: Tempestus really should have just been a third box of Scions. That would give you 2 squads of 5, a Tempestor Prime, and a Command Squad plus the Taurox Prime: Literally a Patrol Detachment of Tempestus. And now that the Commissars have been given their own keyword(Officio Prefectus), I'd rather they GTFO those two boxes.
Yeah, that makes sense. Didn't know that. I'm still trying to pretend keywords don't exist.
Kanluwen wrote: It's funny you mention the Stalker though, as that model is what made me consider a Necron Start Collecting at one point for a SC painting challenge. It actually seems to have been more of a draw than not for people to get that set.
It's a cool model no doubt. I have two myself to go with my Praetorians. It's just that I've never spoken to anyone who said it belonged into a start collection. Ark? Yes. Barge? Yes. Stalker? No.
Aeneades wrote: Necron players - was tempted to pick up two ForgeBane and one of the new Start Collecting sets. Is this a sensible starting position for a Necron force or too many of the wrong units?
Thanks
So that would be an Overlord, Command Barge/Annihilation Barge, 2 Crypteks, 12 Warriors, 15 Immortals/Deathmarks, 10 Lychguard/Triarch Praetorians, 6 Wraiths, 3 Scarabs.
Sounds pretty decent to me, I'd probably add more Warriors and Scarabs to increase their unit size, and they conveniently come in the same box.
Thanks for confirming. I thought a second pack of warriors and scarabs would be a likely purchase. Will probably also grab some flayed ones even if I never use them.
I’d probably get two of each box since max squads will still be good. Both lack a bit of anti vehicle besides warscythes, so also 2 doomsday arks and you’d be golden.
The Lychguard don't have any delivery mechanism in that scenario and without one they are stuck walking up the board (unless you pull deep strike shenanigans which could work but don't guarantee you the charge).
I'd say get those three boxes and then either a night scythe or a monolith. Either is fine, if it's the night scythe you can get there nice and quick, if it's the monolith, deepstrike it in and either teleport the lychguard through it or if it dies that's even better, you can teleport the lychguard where the monolith was in the enemy turn.
But bottom line is: Lychguard are a points sink and they are useless without a way of getting up the board.
TBF, nothing outside of being right next to the unit guarantees a charge in 40K. To say a charge needs to be guaranteed in order to try it is ridiculous. Overwatch isn't that scary either.
That SC box actually makes me mad. I just made the decision to buy some Necrons for my son to start playing (just Warriors and Destroyers) and didn't like the old SC set. This new set would have been PERFECT. I guess I'll have to wait and see if he really is interested in starting an army, as opposed to what we do now which is just play very, very small games MAYBE once a month or so.
I like that they think people are still taking Overlords/lords/barges for orbs when they moved that functionality to crypteks and made orbs a pricey once per game item only really suited for something deathstarish.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh... So what other stuff is a good idea to add to the SC and Forgebane. I suppose some Ghost Arks and more Warriors. What else?
That's an option, but so is an immortal focused core.
Destroyers are very good, especially with some heavies for a much needed anti-tank role.
Aeneades wrote: Necron players - was tempted to pick up two ForgeBane and one of the new Start Collecting sets. Is this a sensible starting position for a Necron force or too many of the wrong units?
Thanks
So that would be an Overlord, Command Barge/Annihilation Barge, 2 Crypteks, 12 Warriors, 15 Immortals/Deathmarks, 10 Lychguard/Triarch Praetorians, 6 Wraiths, 3 Scarabs.
Sounds pretty decent to me, I'd probably add more Warriors and Scarabs to increase their unit size, and they conveniently come in the same box.
Also, due to scarabs having 3 wounds, a lot of people used to 'cheat' a bit and instead of building 3 bases of 4 scarabs, built 4 of 3 instead, saying 1 wound = 1 scarab, resulting in one 'free' base per box.
Nevermind wrote: Liking it so far. Nice additions and we can finally revive Characters now...
That's a fun ability to have. I still fondly remember an Apocalypse game in which my opponent's doomsday device blew up and killed pretty much everything on the table. Except then my lord got back up, brushed the dust off and happily walked into the sunset.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I like how its a 4+ roll as well. Just like in 3rd ed.
That's the part I don't like. I don't own dice that roll 4+.
Yeah, it is a low chance, but I can see the reasoning behind it. It is an ability that brings back an HQ that will be getting a wound or more back next turn. I don't think there's any generic HQ in the game who can do that. In fact, if he comes back in your opponent's fight phase you are guaranteed to get a wound back and do something with him, as at that point its the end of the turn.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I like how its a 4+ roll as well. Just like in 3rd ed.
That's the part I don't like. I don't own dice that roll 4+.
Yeah, it is a low chance, but I can see the reasoning behind it. It is an ability that brings back an HQ that will be getting a wound or more back next turn. I don't think there's any generic HQ in the game who can do that.
In fact, if he comes back in your opponent's fight phase you are guaranteed to get a wound back and do something with him, as at that point its the end of the turn.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm cool with that, especially since I have been pretty opposed to rules in the past that give you free models. Keeping it to 4+ with one wound is fine.
I'd just prefer something like 3+ or 5+, because my fifty-fifty chances aren't.
MinscS2 wrote: And you can always spend another CP to reroll that 4+ should you fail the first time.
I can fail the second roll, too! Don't make me prove it!
CthuluIsSpy wrote: And the dice roll is part of a stratagem. Ergo you are influencing the outcome of a stratagem.
Which is irrelevant. Here's the additional restriction to command point re-rolls introduced in chapter approved;
Limits of Command
"You cannot use the Command Re-roll Stratagem to affect Mission dice rolls. Mission dice rolls include any dice rolls that are made before the battle begins (such as those that determine who chooses deployment zones or who gets the first turn), those that must be made at the end of a battle round (such as rolls that determine if the battle ends) or any rolls that determine how many victory points are awarded to a player."
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh... So what other stuff is a good idea to add to the SC and Forgebane. I suppose some Ghost Arks and more Warriors. What else?
Well I think that Tomb Blades are great.
They have good firepower and help to keep the enemy at arm’s length.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh... So what other stuff is a good idea to add to the SC and Forgebane. I suppose some Ghost Arks and more Warriors. What else?
Well I think that Tomb Blades are great.
They have good firepower and help to keep the enemy at arm’s length.
That would give me the ability to run an Outrider Detachment and a Battalion. I almost wonder if one of each of the SC and Forgebane would be good.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh... So what other stuff is a good idea to add to the SC and Forgebane. I suppose some Ghost Arks and more Warriors. What else?
Well I think that Tomb Blades are great.
They have good firepower and help to keep the enemy at arm’s length.
I really like Tomb Blades with Tesla and Nephrekh Codes (6-inch advance that ignores enemy models and terrain). Not as much fun as the Tomb Blades already have fly, but pair that up with some hopping Tesla Immortals and suddenly your enemies screening units are useless.
v0iddrgn wrote: TBF, nothing outside of being right next to the unit guarantees a charge in 40K. To say a charge needs to be guaranteed in order to try it is ridiculous. Overwatch isn't that scary either.
That's fair enough, but one thing you don't want is your lychguard walking up the whole board just to get into combat. If they're forced to walk your opponent can shoot them down at leisure (and not even t5 3+ sv make much of a difference this edition) and even if they don't they can move away the units you will want to charge with them. So they either have to be deepstruck (deepstriked??) or delivered by monolith/night scythe. I'm a fan of the monolith personally, gives a few more options and yes its a points sink but with our strategems even if it dies your lychguard can still teleport in...so win win.
So how do people feel about the codex overall? The two shooting codes look decent, the - AP is good all around and rerolls of one to hit isn't bad for necrons though it'd be redundant for many other armies. The melee code is also good for specific builds, though I've rarely seen a melee heavy necron army.
The other two are... eh. Sautehk is clearly relying on the warlord trait and special characters first and foremost, the being able to advance and fire won't matter that often, and the necrons honestly don't have many units that need to ignore penalties to moving and firing with heavy weapons (due to a lack of heavy weapons on most units, few mixed range units, many already being able to, or said unit needing to stay still for other reasons).
The flat 6 advance is just bad, if they could always ignore models/terrain it might be mediocre, but many they got the short end.
v0iddrgn wrote: TBF, nothing outside of being right next to the unit guarantees a charge in 40K. To say a charge needs to be guaranteed in order to try it is ridiculous. Overwatch isn't that scary either.
That's fair enough, but one thing you don't want is your lychguard walking up the whole board just to get into combat. If they're forced to walk your opponent can shoot them down at leisure (and not even t5 3+ sv make much of a difference this edition) and even if they don't they can move away the units you will want to charge with them. So they either have to be deepstruck (deepstriked??) or delivered by monolith/night scythe. I'm a fan of the monolith personally, gives a few more options and yes its a points sink but with our strategems even if it dies your lychguard can still teleport in...so win win.
Yeah, I plan on using my Monolith now that the strategems are allowing units to still hit the table. I'm hoping my FO's are still viable, though.
So far the beta codex has been pretty close to everything but Forgebane.
I am really liking that most of the Necron stratagems are only 1 CP. For an army with no allies, this is pretty critical, since it is unlikely you will ever get more than 9 CP for a Necron Army.
Mathhammering it up you do 17.8 wounds with 6 destroyers to a tank when at half range if it has a 3+ save or worse. Or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ save tank. This is assuming you're using the "Destroyers kill everything" stratagem, which you would be.
So yes, a squad of 6 destroyers happily kill a tank, or almost kill a Land Raider.
Though against lower toughness targets this increases. For example just deleting whole squads of terminators...
Not having played more than a single game, still haven't properly got my head round the new fangled wounding and Tanks.
Certainly seems appealing enough for me not to overly worry about adding Heavy Destroyers. I'd rather stick with withering anti-infantry fire than can, with just a little over average luck, pop a tank in a pinch. (I consider 5+ to be reliable, YMMV!)
Aren73 wrote: Mathhammering it up you do 17.8 wounds with 6 destroyers to a tank when at half range if it has a 3+ save or worse. Or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ save tank. This is assuming you're using the "Destroyers kill everything" stratagem, which you would be.
So yes, a squad of 6 destroyers happily kill a tank, or almost kill a Land Raider.
Though against lower toughness targets this increases. For example just deleting whole squads of terminators...
Just to be clear, your using the Mephrit code here.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Oh indeed. I love my Destroyers, so Mephrit seems the one for me. Add in the 'no cover for you' stratagem, and they really, really appeal.
OMG did GW just make Destroyers good again?!
Another 3 editions and the Monolith will be playable again!
Aren73 wrote: Mathhammering it up you do 17.8 wounds with 6 destroyers to a tank when at half range if it has a 3+ save or worse. Or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ save tank. This is assuming you're using the "Destroyers kill everything" stratagem, which you would be.
So yes, a squad of 6 destroyers happily kill a tank, or almost kill a Land Raider.
Though against lower toughness targets this increases. For example just deleting whole squads of terminators...
Just to be clear, your using the Mephrit code here.
Indeed I am.
I think destroyers, with a veil of darkness character turn one teleport, Mephrit code and "Destroyers kill everything forever" stratagem would be a strong alpha strike.
So imagine this: Overlord uses MWBD at the start of the turn, then you veil of darkness your destroyer lord and his crew of 6 destroyers within 9'' of the enemy, use the "Destroyers for daaaayyyssss" strategem. You then get: 18 shots, hitting on 2+ with rerolls, str 6 reroll to wound, ap-4 and d3 damage. Oh and whatever your Destroyer Lord can do on top of that.
Best part? That is turn one, on a target of your choice. Ok maybe not quite Primarch killing, but when supported by some heavy destroyers...well we're getting there, aren't we?
shadowfinder wrote: Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.
Careful....there'll be those arguing he's not actually using the weapon mounted on the Command Barge!
Good AP, lots of shots, decent damage. Wang out a squad level re-roll, and you're deleting a unit each turn.
Can anyone used to 8th Ed provide a useful comment on whether S6 is particularly reliable firepower against Tanks?
Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.
Yes it wounds on a 5+, but with their "Destroyers kick ass now" stratagem, 6 destroyers still do 17.8 wounds to a 3+ sv tank or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ one and that's without an Overlord blessing them with a 2+ to hit. Surely that kills a LRBT, probably does severe damage to the Baneblade too. Sure Heavy Destroyers do it better, but normal destroyers can and will kill tanks now.
shadowfinder wrote: Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.
Except gauss cannons are not assault, so you can't snipe with that. You can with a tesla cannon.
I can see a crypteks being a good warlord choice for Mephrit, as they can only have staff of lights anyway.
Good AP, lots of shots, decent damage. Wang out a squad level re-roll, and you're deleting a unit each turn.
Can anyone used to 8th Ed provide a useful comment on whether S6 is particularly reliable firepower against Tanks?
Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.
Yes it wounds on a 5+, but with their "Destroyers kick ass now" stratagem, 6 destroyers still do 17.8 wounds to a 3+ sv tank or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ one and that's without an Overlord blessing them with a 2+ to hit. Surely that kills a LRBT, probably does severe damage to the Baneblade too. Sure Heavy Destroyers do it better, but normal destroyers can and will kill tanks now.
Plus, you'll have enough bodies to tie the Leman Russ's up in combat, being too close for their allies to shoot, and force them to move back when they can't shoot without using a strategem (and they can only use it once a phase)...
There are possibilities there.
The difference between S5 and S6 is pointless against tanks, which are almost all T7+. Both strengths wound on 5+ Where the bump in strength really stands out is against light vehicles (T5 & 6) and T3 infantry. In those cases, the Gauss cannon essentially gets +1 to wound from the Index profile.
This reinforces the intended role of Destroyers: to destroy living things, not necessarily tanks. That's what Heavy Destroyers are for.
Galef wrote: The difference between S5 and S6 is pointless against tanks, which are almost all T7+. Both strengths wound on 5+
Where the bump in strength really stands out is against light vehicles (T5 & 6) and T3 infantry. In those cases, the Gauss cannon essentially gets +1 to wound from the Index profile.
This reinforces the intended role of Destroyers: to destroy living things, not necessarily tanks. That's what Heavy Destroyers are for.
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And T5 infantry, which is more common now than before.
Galef wrote: The difference between S5 and S6 is pointless against tanks, which are almost all T7+. Both strengths wound on 5+
Where the bump in strength really stands out is against light vehicles (T5 & 6) and T3 infantry. In those cases, the Gauss cannon essentially gets +1 to wound from the Index profile.
This reinforces the intended role of Destroyers: to destroy living things, not necessarily tanks. That's what Heavy Destroyers are for.
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Absolutely. You cannot allow destroyers to be the only thing that can damage tanks in your list. However, in a pinch, 6 destroyers will put the hurt on any tank. In most games throw them at t5 and t6 targets, preferably with multiple wounds. Find yourself some Tyranid warriors and absolutely go to town. Or Terminatos. Or any Primaris. Don't waste them on Guardsmen though, save those for your warriors.
shadowfinder wrote: Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.
Careful....there'll be those arguing he's not actually using the weapon mounted on the Command Barge!
What? CCB is a single model. I don't understand. So if your warlord is Biker his rules apply differently for bike shooting? It's weird and i do not see how this arguments can be valid.
shadowfinder wrote: Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.
Careful....there'll be those arguing he's not actually using the weapon mounted on the Command Barge!
What? CCB is a single model. I don't understand. So if your warlord is Biker his rules apply differently for bike shooting? It's weird and i do not see how this arguments can be valid.
But the CCB is a single model. It's its own unit entry. Its lot like in 5th ed where it was a just transport choice that the overlord can leave. The CCB IS the warlord.
Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.
Reroll wounds and multi damage is something tougher vehicles hate.
A baneblade hit with a mephtrit squad of 6 and the 1CP with MWBD becomes a reliable 16 wounds. Can you find 10 more wounds from the other 1700 points of your army to kill it? That is not shabby.
With the change to destroyers confirmed pretty much dusting off my old destroyer wing from 3rd. It's like we're kinda going backwards to go forwards here. Next update you'll see they go back to 36" cannons or something.
But hey, I'd still like the cryptek cloak to be available for the lord/warlord, too 
