In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.
EnTyme wrote: In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.
And, don't forget, the caveat for ICV2 is that it is done of informal polling of game stores only, and does not account for hard numbers (or sales from webstore-only shops, etc)
EnTyme wrote: In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.
And, don't forget, the caveat for ICV2 is that it is done of informal polling of game stores only, and does not account for hard numbers (or sales from webstore-only shops, etc)
but if you compare ICV2 to ICV2 it does give you a reasonable idea of which way the sales in the market are going
It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?
That isn't quite what I was saying. Numbers don't lie, GW's profits are up substantially. While I disagree rather strongly about the nature and quality of the changes, it can't be denied that for most players, the negatives of 8th and AOS's rulesets, prices, or even Necromunda/KT's drip-feed the rules approach, do not outweigh other aspects. When it comes down to it, most people would rather buy those shiny new minis than do without, even those that spend a large amount of time grumbling about the games.
I've found the 40k community to have perhaps the most unrealistic expectations of a balanced game I've come across. Not that 40k is great, but 8th is way closer to what I've found to be considered "good" elsewhere than you'd be lead to believe. I understand the historical reasons for this, but it really feels like more often than not the community is too busy trying to fix the game to notice whether or not its actually working.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Wow, stunned that Nolzur's Marvelous Minis is the #2 seller! I would have figured Reaper Bones would eclipse them easily.
Not really, the large volume Bones purchases are always KSers and Nolzur's are cheapish official D&D minis so it's not surprising they outsell bones just from the branding alone.
I can say that since the Brexit vote I have bought a ton of products from Element Games in UK, because the exchange rate form Pounds-Euro is sweet.
But many places that would take advantage of the weak Pound to purchase Games Workshop cannot due to GWs policies. Personally I would have bought far more if I could have.
> GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following
That's too easy to say.
Frex, I'm on BGG and GW has released several boardgames that are popular there, such as Warhammer Quest, and Shadespire. GW has long been a well-known brand, but that doesn't mean it's fully tapped out its potential audience. They've also released various Play Now (?) kits for the miniature wargamer markets that are supposedly more accessible than previous sets.
If you continue to dismiss GW's customers as "fanbois", you won't understand why they've increased their profits.
Well, they started making stuff people wanted to buy again. Well done, GW.
Surprised to see D&D minis as the second best selling line. I have bought a whole bunch of them, but this being a US survey I would have assumed Bones would have had more of an entrenched base. I cannot get Bones easily in Europe so I tend to go for D&D minis instead, even though the range is less extensive.
EnTyme wrote: It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.
They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.
EnTyme wrote: It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.
They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.
The DnD stuff kind of slips right into stores alongside their Magic orders and yeah, they're nicer models. I've not seen much in the realm of Bones since that launched.
EnTyme wrote: It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.
They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.
I have seen a silver dragon mini from them. The pre-priming is kinda cruddy though, I have had my paint flake off with that primer. I usually give them another coat of GW primer.
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?
It would be not the first time in history the the better product did not sold best, and it will not be the last time
But I already can see Kirby exploding because even a half decent set of rules doubles the profit over his "we are a miniature company and don't need good rules"
Chopstick wrote: Err, I hope the profit would make GW invest more on plastic production for specialist games. ( probably not)
Not specified as Specialist Games, but from the Annual Report:
Capacity
Manufacturing
We have accelerated our investment in manufacturing capacity during the year as well as improved our logistics and distribution
service levels. These will, alongside our investment in people and technology, lay the foundation for future volume growth. In the
year we purchased two acres of land at the cost of £1.7 million next to our HQ in Nottingham and later this year will have
redeveloped this site to increase our manufacturing capacity as well as improve our R&D capabilities. The total capital cost of
this new facility including the purchase of the land will be approximately £9 million.
Our manufacturing investment included doubling the number of plastic injection moulding machines as well as flexing up our
average production staffing levels from 143 to 198 at our HQ site in Nottingham. Production payroll costs have increased by
£2.0 million to £5.9 million; as a percentage of Group revenue they have increased from 2.5% to 2.7%.
Double the number of injection moulders, 1/3 increase in production staff and buying/ building quite a big new facility - should be some capacity to get more Specialist stuff out along with the core ranges
Nice. As for plastic specialist games have they released a specialist game that wasnt primarily plastic? Necro, bloodbowl, and now AT have all been released primarily in plastic.
). We continue to offer a broad range of price points and we have maintained our policy of aiming to only increase the prices of our new releases to reflect the necessary investment in our product quality. The annual impact of this increase on our UK RRP price list is an average increase of 3%.
Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.
I suspect much of this profit is largely on the back of the influx of new players from 8th edition and AOS 2.0.
As to GW giving people what they want? Kinda. They've given some people what they want. They've promised a lot and so far haven't delivered on all of it. The promise to deliver "all major codexes within a year of 8th release" has fallen by the wayside. It will only take a few more broken promises to see a negative shift in perception and that will hurt their bottom line.
I'm interested to know how much of their profit is due to mobile, console and PC gaming too.
But I already can see Kirby exploding because even a half decent set of rules doubles the profit over his "we are a miniature company and don't need good rules"
I think Kirby knew exactly what he was doing and is quite happy with all the money he made not investing in the company.
Galas wrote: Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?
Exactly. People have gak taste and gak judgement in general. If the unwashed masses cared as much for science as they do for watching junkies chase a ball up and down a grass field, we'd be on Alpha Centauri by now. Liking bad wargames is hardly surprising, but at least it's not dooming us to extinction in the grand scheme of things.
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
Smoke and mirrors, beaten-up wife, stockholm syndrome, don't-know-better. I'm doing it right?
You missed Sunken Cost Fallacy. Probably the biggest reason a lot of GW customers are too scared to branch out and try other games.
Good on GW for resurrecting themselves, and the clear improvements on 8th over 7th edition 40k. My worry is what they're going to do next to keep those profits going.
Necromunda, Blood Bowl and Adeptus Titanicus are all returned or returning. They've brought back Primarchs and re-made larger, bigger and better Space Marines.
What's left...? A full return for Sisters and Squats and a remake of Mordheim. What then? Will we see something original, or by then will they be onto AoS3 and 40k v9?
I'd hate to see them branching too much into CCGs and seeing the great looking gaming tables in the GW stores slowly turning into card tables.
Da Boss wrote: Well, they started making stuff people wanted to buy again. Well done, GW.
Surprised to see D&D minis as the second best selling line. I have bought a whole bunch of them, but this being a US survey I would have assumed Bones would have had more of an entrenched base. I cannot get Bones easily in Europe so I tend to go for D&D minis instead, even though the range is less extensive.
I think it just goes to show how important being an 'official' product is, and possibly how much stuff is sold to people not involved in the hobby
Little Jimmy plays D&D and his family and friends know that , they may well know he paints those little toy soldiers too, but most of them will never connect reaper bones with D&D so unless he specifically asks for them they don't get bought, but official D&D minis, they're a gift idea they may think of themselves or have suggested to them
Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.
I'm guessing that's because with the edition change there just hasn't been much (new) product around for people to buy
I'm really pretty surprised Warmachine is holding on at No3, despite the clear problems of the MK3 launch, pressgager and forum removals etc, I guess this may well mean it's stabilized, and shows quite how far AoS still has to climb
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
And 8th edition brought all of us old grumbling complainy gamers who basically quit after 2nd/3rd edition back into the fold and spending our adult incomes.
Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.
I'm guessing that's because with the edition change there just hasn't been much (new) product around for people to buy
I'm really pretty surprised Warmachine is holding on at No3, despite the clear problems of the MK3 launch, pressgager and forum removals etc, I guess this may well mean it's stabilized, and shows quite how far AoS still has to climb
Still a new Star Wars movie (Last Jedi) and several items tied to it did come out. Guess the glow is off the Star Wars rose and mediocre movies aren't helping drive kids to the game anymore.
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
And 8th edition brought all of us old grumbling complainy gamers who basically quit after 2nd/3rd edition back into the fold and spending our adult incomes.
This describes me to a T. I've spent at least 400$ just on codexes/rules in order to find out the game is just as broken/imbalanced as I left it. Let's not talk about what I've spent freshening up my collection and chasing a meta that has run laps around me. I'm curious what happens next year. But with primarchs pretty much printing money I can easily see campaign books with primarch releases sustaining them into 2020 and then it will be time for 9th...
Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.
I'm guessing that's because with the edition change there just hasn't been much (new) product around for people to buy
I'm really pretty surprised Warmachine is holding on at No3, despite the clear problems of the MK3 launch, pressgager and forum removals etc, I guess this may well mean it's stabilized, and shows quite how far AoS still has to climb
Still a new Star Wars movie (Last Jedi) and several items tied to it did come out. Guess the glow is off the Star Wars rose and mediocre movies aren't helping drive kids to the game anymore.
Interestingly collectible games shrunk and non-collectible miniatures were the fastest growing (32% growth). The collectible market might be really hurting outside Magic. Hasbro reported earlier and said Magic was still growing healthily.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I suspect much of this profit is largely on the back of the influx of new players from 8th edition and AOS 2.0.
As to GW giving people what they want? Kinda. They've given some people what they want. They've promised a lot and so far haven't delivered on all of it. The promise to deliver "all major codexes within a year of 8th release" has fallen by the wayside. It will only take a few more broken promises to see a negative shift in perception and that will hurt their bottom line.
I'm interested to know how much of their profit is due to mobile, console and PC gaming too.
Considering that most of the GW games on computer are by smaller studios that produce games which range from rubbish to ok I doubt its a vast slice. For every Dawn of War or TW Warhammer there are a half dozen so-so titles or just very niche ones.
As for the codex, lets be honest, this is the first time in decades where they've tried to do it. They've what, got 3 planned codex still to go and a 4th that is new in the works (Sisters of Battle). I'd say they've done darn well and sure there is some delay or pause for codex; but then again Sigmar, AT, Bloodbowl and others did need some room to get stuff out too. I'ts not as if GW has shut down all production and focus on orks
I mean heck in any other edition you had to cross your fingers and offer sacrifices to forgotten pagan gods just to have the hope that your army would even see a codex for the edition.
I mean heck in any other edition you had to cross your fingers and offer sacrifices to forgotten pagan gods just to have the hope that your army would even see a codex for the edition.
It seems like enough players are conditioned to this that I see people expecting 9th edition in the fall.
I think everyone expects GW to eventually ease off on the pressure at some point - however right now we are getting weekly releases and I'm not going to complain about that
Very impressive results from GW. To double profits for two years in a row is pretty exceptional. Increasing their revenue to over 200 million also suggests they are reaching beyond their base and getting new customers.
There are a few interesting pieces of info from the report. The space marine heroes range that is currently Japan only, is going global. The warhammer conquests part works series is coming back this summer. No info on whether it will still be UK only unfortunately.
In terms of break downs the only interesting bit is about forgeworld. The report stated that ANYTHING made in plastic is Citadel and ANYTHING made in resin is Forgeworld.
That said in online sales Citadel increased by 52% this year but Forgeworld only increased by 4%
This may explain the changes to the forgeworld range that is happening.
They did say that they considered their 3 main ranges to be 40k, Aos and Horus Heresy, which suggests that Horus Heresy is not going away any time soon.
Chikout wrote: They did say that they considered their 3 main ranges to be 40k, Aos and Horus Heresy, which suggests that Horus Heresy is not going away any time soon.
That makes me a bit worried though, about Lord of the Rings line. Let's hope all the great work that seems to be coming out for LotR will not be going anywhere as well.
Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.
Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor and the new fluff is abominable ), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.
Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile
streetsamurai wrote: Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.
Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.
Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile
Kirby was out for himself and got exactly what he wanted - dividends out the arse and occasion to funnel off a little extra via nepotistic contracts. And now he can sit back and enjoy the additional value on his stock in the company thanks to the work of others. Ain't capitalism grand?
As to the report, the big deal as far as I'm concerned is the production expansion. I doubt very much they needed to double their plastics production capacity and so radically increase their staffing level just to address the bottleneck they've been dealing with for the last wee while, so the fact they are suggests they have some big plans, will be interesting to see what they are.
EnTyme wrote: It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.
They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.
And after one release of skeleton warriors, they discontinued them since nobody uses skeletons in RPGs and fantasy wargames. Esp. affordable, nice-looking one piece castings that are already primed.
Back on topic, I think GW have made several good moves over the past 1-3 years. Necromunda has cheesed me and our group off---about the drip-feed, error-riddled rules releases. But 40k and AoS have all been big locally.
streetsamurai wrote: Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.
Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.
Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile
Kirby was out for himself and got exactly what he wanted - dividends out the arse and occasion to funnel off a little extra via nepotistic contracts. And now he can sit back and enjoy the additional value on his stock in the company thanks to the work of others. Ain't capitalism grand?
As to the report, the big deal as far as I'm concerned is the production expansion. I doubt very much they needed to double their plastics production capacity and so radically increase their staffing level just to address the bottleneck they've been dealing with for the last wee while, so the fact they are suggests they have some big plans, will be interesting to see what they are.
Indeed. Hopefully, they will allot more manufacturing capacities to Specialist games. necro would be more so more better if they would invest more in it.
EnTyme wrote: In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.
The first thing I'd like to say is congratulations on GW for topping it yet again.
Second, anybody who has issues with the current rule set for 40K need to get comfortable, it isn't going anywhere.
Third, WFB was #3 in the top games list, yet it got nuked to make AOS. What does this say about AOS? Maybe eventually get folded into 40K if it doesn't improve? Or is the sales thing hogwash to make things more copyrightable?
So they had their first good year since the LOTR bubble in the year where everyone knew a new 40k edition was coming out and likely put holds on what they were buying. Then they have this year which they destroyed because of the new 40k edition. And they saved the AoS edition drop for the current year we're in addition to relaunching LoTR and dropping a new specialist game plus Kill Team while they continue to roll out books. GW is pretty much killing it. Glad to see their numbers supporting their current practices where there is only a single mistep here and there instead of their being a good decision here or there like it was 4 years ago.
EnTyme wrote: In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.
The first thing I'd like to say is congratulations on GW for topping it yet again.
Second, anybody who has issues with the current rule set for 40K need to get comfortable, it isn't going anywhere.
Third, WFB was #3 in the top games list, yet it got nuked to make AOS. What does this say about AOS? Maybe eventually get folded into 40K if it doesn't improve? Or is the sales thing hogwash to make things more copyrightable?
WFB was 3rd way back. Like 6th edition, maybe early 7th. And even then the tactical squad and rhino outsold the entire range....
This is just online sales correct?
I can see WM being so high, purely based on the fact that getting any of that consumer base to buy retail is like pulling teeth from teeth.
Odd to not see Pathfinder being higher in RPG's. I knew DnD was kicking but in sales (hence PF 2.0 suddenly) but to see starfinder sell better is extremely surprising.
No it covers pretty much everything in North America bar GW stores if i'm not mistaken
Our primary means of collecting data about hobby games sales is interviews with key industry figures with good visibility to sales in various categories and channels. We also review data released by publicly traded companies, and Kickstarter data and analysis, especially that released by ICO Partners. There were no major changes in methodology for 2017.
EnTyme wrote: In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.
The first thing I'd like to say is congratulations on GW for topping it yet again.
Second, anybody who has issues with the current rule set for 40K need to get comfortable, it isn't going anywhere.
Third, WFB was #3 in the top games list, yet it got nuked to make AOS. What does this say about AOS? Maybe eventually get folded into 40K if it doesn't improve? Or is the sales thing hogwash to make things more copyrightable?
At the end of its run WHFB was, much like AOS, oscillating between the 5th place and being out of the ranking. So, yeah, the change to AOS seems to have given pretty much nothing, bar frustration among the fan base and the loss of a strong IP. But then, no need to cry over spilled milk. WHFB is not coming back and AOS is starting to show some potential, rulewise and fluffwise.
Even if the result seems to be not impressive, I'm pretty sure they will continue to support AOS. Would be a huge admission of failure if they don't do so, and I sincerly doubt they would want to face the backlash, unless it's really starting to be a financial drain (which I doubt it is)
streetsamurai wrote: Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.
Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.
Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile
Kirby was out for himself and got exactly what he wanted - dividends out the arse and occasion to funnel off a little extra via nepotistic contracts. And now he can sit back and enjoy the additional value on his stock in the company thanks to the work of others. Ain't capitalism grand?
As to the report, the big deal as far as I'm concerned is the production expansion. I doubt very much they needed to double their plastics production capacity and so radically increase their staffing level just to address the bottleneck they've been dealing with for the last wee while, so the fact they are suggests they have some big plans, will be interesting to see what they are.
Indeed. Hopefully, they will allot more manufacturing capacities to Specialist games. necro would be more so more better if they would invest more in it.
could be but another thing to consider is additional 40k armies. their factory lag last time suggested their factory was proably more or less at capacity without a lot of room for exapsnion. GW's been dabbling with new armies since 6th edition of 40k, but in 6th edition most of the "new" armies where more tossing stuff into a new codex that we already had (legion of the damned I'm looking at you)
later on in 7th we began to see actual new armies, an unprecidented number of them, death watch, genestealer cults, 1 thousand sons (yes technicly they where CSMs until 8th dropped their coidex but come ion we all knew )
My guess is a big part of this is a continued commitment to expanding their product line. Aka, expect new AOS and 40k armies.
Justyn wrote: I like how the article says its due to the weak Pound. GW forces retailers to use their exchange rates so that isn't really a factor.
GW has religiously used that excuse in their annual reports for the last decade. No shock it rubbed off on reporting.
They're actually telling the truth this time though, the £ is down the drain t the moment. In regard to GW setting their own exchange rate, that is true, but when the profits are repatriated and converted back to £'s it goes further due to them now getting £1 for every $1.3 rather than the last decade where it's been £1 for $1.5-2
streetsamurai wrote: No it covers pretty much everything in North America bar GW stores if i'm not mistaken
Our primary means of collecting data about hobby games sales is interviews with key industry figures with good visibility to sales in various categories and channels. We also review data released by publicly traded companies, and Kickstarter data and analysis, especially that released by ICO Partners. There were no major changes in methodology for 2017.
This is the first time they openly mention Kickstarter in the totals. That was a question in previous lists if it included the totals. I don't see why they would exclude store sales from GW, but include direct sales from say a Mantic KS? From ICV2 number and GW's numbers, GW accounts for about a third of non-collectible miniature market in North America.
As for the factory expansion, don't forget they are ramping up Specialist Games and this additional production capability will likely support further products coming out from there.
That makes me a bit worried though, about Lord of the Rings line. Let's hope all the great work that seems to be coming out for LotR will not be going anywhere as well.
I think the report only talks about own brands there, LotR is a licensed product.
As to the computer games question: that is basically everything in the royalties section, so 9 million-ish in revenue.
They added that there “is plenty to look forward to” for the firm, citing a sharp increase in customer engagement with 100,000 views per day of video content, new product development and the exploration of animation and live action strategies.
So, Space Marines Saturday morning cartoon confirmed?
Good for them! This sends a very clear message to GW, engage with your customers, and produce products that they want and people will be more inclined to give you their custom.
As for going forward, I think we will see some classics return. Namely BFG, and an AoS version of Warmaster. That will bring in a lot of extra cash for them. The BFG community is still going strong and there is still a demand for the models, even if they have been out of production for nearly 10 years now.
Chopstick wrote: Err, I hope the profit would make GW invest more on plastic production for specialist games. ( probably not)
Not specified as Specialist Games, but from the Annual Report:
Capacity
Manufacturing
We have accelerated our investment in manufacturing capacity during the year as well as improved our logistics and distribution
service levels. These will, alongside our investment in people and technology, lay the foundation for future volume growth. In the
year we purchased two acres of land at the cost of £1.7 million next to our HQ in Nottingham and later this year will have
redeveloped this site to increase our manufacturing capacity as well as improve our R&D capabilities. The total capital cost of
this new facility including the purchase of the land will be approximately £9 million.
Our manufacturing investment included doubling the number of plastic injection moulding machines as well as flexing up our
average production staffing levels from 143 to 198 at our HQ site in Nottingham. Production payroll costs have increased by
£2.0 million to £5.9 million; as a percentage of Group revenue they have increased from 2.5% to 2.7%.
Double the number of injection moulders, 1/3 increase in production staff and buying/ building quite a big new facility - should be some capacity to get more Specialist stuff out along with the core ranges
They added that there “is plenty to look forward to” for the firm, citing a sharp increase in customer engagement with 100,000 views per day of video content, new product development and the exploration of animation and live action strategies.
So, Space Marines Saturday morning cartoon confirmed?
Nah. Cartoon versions of the kids' books they're releasing.
And live action will be Hiking with Roboute - A Scenic Tour Through Ultramar.
Just the tone of the statement is refreshing compared to kirbys old doom and gloom number crunching.
This is clearly a man that cares not just about running the company in a profitable way, but ensuring it stays true to what GW should be.
It's also interesting that he makes a note of saying they aren't aiming to keep up this level of growth forever, which makes me think they have a plan to level off at a certain point and then keep a more relaxed release schedule once all their new steps are in place.
Be daft to expect this level of performance to continue. After all, they’ve released an awful lot of Fan Pleasers recently. And beyond Adeptus Titanicus, Mordheim and Epic, I can’t think of many old games yet to be resurrected.
Which means it’s time for the riskier prospect of entirely new specialist game types.
GW has a few years too before Warcradle will even touch on trying to get Uncharted Seas back on the market (if they ever do of course; the other projects might take the lime light and leave them no time for that). So GW could have the sea-fantasy battles all to themselves in the market
Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.
I don't know if this is common enough, but I have not played 40k at all in about 6 years but have still been buying and collecting since then. But of course I'm a devout addict...
It's also interesting that he makes a note of saying they aren't aiming to keep up this level of growth forever, which makes me think they have a plan to level off at a certain point and then keep a more relaxed release schedule once all their new steps are in place.
Good to hear they're being realistic and realized that growth trends aren't permanent. It sounds like they trying to put systems in place (like increased production capacity) to keep profit levels sustainable once the growth levels off.
General Helstrom wrote:
Space Hulk! Gorkamorka! TROLLS IN THE PANTRY!
Space Hulk seems like the kind of game they can do a limited production run on every few years if they need a quick boost in revenue during a slow quarter.
They added that there “is plenty to look forward to” for the firm, citing a sharp increase in customer engagement with 100,000 views per day of video content, new product development and the exploration of animation and live action strategies.
So, Space Marines Saturday morning cartoon confirmed?
All of the information regarding growth and future plans sounds optimistic. I couldn’t keep up if they produced stuff any more quickly, so tapering growth is good. It sounds like the company has really figured out how to engage with the community and find out what they want. I look forward to many more years with this new games workshop.
GW is doing many good things with 8th.
I agree the management "tone" of engaging with their customers is a big step rather than the Kirby "trendy boutique" snottiness.
Dusting off many nostalgia bits sure help the bottomline.
I think many people like myself had gone into other things during 6th and 7th and we are now catching up on stuff we would not look at a few years back.
I think I am about as excited about the releases in the last year as when the original "Armageddon" huge battles were conceived (played at the "Epic 40k 6mm" in 28mm scale).
Just get the game more like "Bolt Action" (pretty close right now!) and get rid of the insane "I go, you go." first turn "I win" madness.
Anyway, good for GW.
Funny how people respond to arrogant jerks in charge: they take their attention and money elsewhere.
I am sure Kirby figures that the circumstances are different and he could have done the same thing...
It's also interesting that he makes a note of saying they aren't aiming to keep up this level of growth forever, which makes me think they have a plan to level off at a certain point and then keep a more relaxed release schedule once all their new steps are in place.
Good to hear they're being realistic and realized that growth trends aren't permanent. It sounds like they trying to put systems in place (like increased production capacity) to keep profit levels sustainable once the growth levels off.
Yeah, he's clearly planning for the long term. Using their recent windfall to invest for the future is a simple but smart strategy. Increasing production capacity, expanding warehouse capacity, increasing marketing efforts, strengthening licensing agreements etc etc... all these are things that need a big initial investment but will pay off in the long term and help keep their profit levels up when their current growth rate inevitably stagnates.
Anyway, good for GW.
Funny how people respond to arrogant jerks in charge: they take their attention and money elsewhere.
I am sure Kirby figures that the circumstances are different and he could have done the same thing...
I'm sure he would claim that his policies were long-term strategies that ensured the continued profitability and survival of the company, and that he did nothing wrong...
It's also interesting that he makes a note of saying they aren't aiming to keep up this level of growth forever, which makes me think they have a plan to level off at a certain point and then keep a more relaxed release schedule once all their new steps are in place.
Good to hear they're being realistic and realized that growth trends aren't permanent. It sounds like they trying to put systems in place (like increased production capacity) to keep profit levels sustainable once the growth levels off.
Yeah, he's clearly planning for the long term. Using their recent windfall to invest for the future is a simple but smart strategy. Increasing production capacity, expanding warehouse capacity, increasing marketing efforts, strengthening licensing agreements etc etc... all these are things that need a big initial investment but will pay off in the long term and help keep their profit levels up when their current growth rate inevitably stagnates.
Anyway, good for GW.
Funny how people respond to arrogant jerks in charge: they take their attention and money elsewhere.
I am sure Kirby figures that the circumstances are different and he could have done the same thing...
I'm sure he would claim that his policies were long-term strategies that ensured the continued profitability and survival of the company, and that he did nothing wrong...
Hulksmash wrote: The models for dreadfleet were sweet. I'd be happy to see some kind of naval game for AoS.
I'd like to see some of those things make it into model form for AoS. That undead bone hydra would be an awesome warbeast for a Legions of Nagash army, as would the decaying Sea Giant.
... beyond Adeptus Titanicus, Mordheim and Epic, I can’t think of many old games yet to be resurrected.
.
MAN
O'
WAR!
Battle Fleet Gothic anyone?
They are already bringing back BFG, although rumors say it will be limited to the Horus Heresy setting for now. I'm more curious if their upcoming Aeronautica anthology is planned to whet the appetite for an Aeronautica relaunch. One assumes somebody at GW has seen the popularity of X-Wing and remembered that GW has their own dogfighting game.
and as a fairly small fish they've got to spend/give away a bunch of the new cash to avoid looking like a tempting acquisition target for a slash & burn (sorry investment) fund
I realized that I was basically doing a "let's read" on the financial statement and reacting to way too much.
Here's a thing that interests me:
" The launch month, June 2017, reached new heights for us, which was no real surprise as the models and supporting gaming mechanics were better than ever."
Is this the first time GW's management has actually mentioned the actual mechanics of warhammer? I'm shocked
And:
"• Partworks - We learnt a great deal from the Battle Games in Middle-earth partwork launched back in 2002. And some of those lessons were painful! Now though, I think we are in the best position we’ve ever been to have another go. ‘Warhammer 40,000 Conquest’, a serialised product, will launch this summer."
I bet Rountree was trying to get Kirby to approve of using outside marketing like they did during the LOTR years for *years*. A Battle Games in the 41st Millennium should work well for them. Hopefully it gets distributed more widely than just the UK.
And here's a mountain of text I wrote before I caught myself and stopped:
Spoiler:
"The third element is that we are customer focused. We talk to our customers. We aim to communicate in an open, fun way. Whoever and wherever our customers are, and in whichever way they want to engage with Warhammer, we will do our utmost to support them."
This is the biggest difference between the current GW that has returned to growth and the declining GW of yesteryear.
"Our long term goal is to have all three channels (retail, trade and online) growing in harmony. We will always have more independent accounts than our own stores. Our strategy is to grow our business through geographic spread, growing all of the three complementary channels."
Another big change is how easy it is to deal with GW as a stockist now. I have also heard zero reports of sudden massive short stocking of new releases when a local GW opens up in the same area. The core products needed to be stocked to get the best discount isn't predatory and full of crap that will never move.
The area that still needs improving is the paints side of things. At least in Canada you can't get individual pots of paints as a store so when you restock a colour or just want to top things up you have to get multiples of each colour. And since some colours are pretty niche this means a lot of money has be tied up with pots 3 and 4 of a colour you might sell once or twice a year. One local guy has $2000 in just paints that are the back two out of four in each colour.
And extra $2000 of product that could be turned over and sold each month can actually make quite a difference to a local small store. It can even be GW products.
"To be around forever we also need to invest in both long term capital and short term maintenance projects every year, pay our staff what they have earned for the value they contribute and deliver surplus cash to our shareholders. Our dedication and focus should ensure we deliver on time and within our agreed cash limits."
I'm not familiar with British accounting jargon, but "cash limits" here is more for public sector stuff. I guess he's using it colloquially. Like the board agreed to keep a s portion of their cash around but surplus will be paid out in dividends? Given the dividends per share and earnings per share being stable from the last couple years, it's good GW has an actual plan now rather than just paying whatever Kirby could get rubber stamped and raiding the success of the past to pay dividends greater than earnings.
"At the year end we had 489 Games Workshop stores in 23 countries. Our stores contributed 37% of the year's sales. We have 379 one man stores, small sites, each one staffed by only one store manager. We also have 110 multi-man stores, which are constantly reviewed to ensure they remain profitable. If not, they will be closed and probably replaced with one man stores."
This is actually different from the Kirby years. During those years even some profitable stores were closed and replaced with single employee operations just for the cost savings. People have reported they ended up seeing a 40% decline in sales but a major staff savings that made them more profitable but resulted in lower sales volume.
As well, some single employee stores have been restored to being multi-employee stores. One local to me has had exactly that happen.
"The key performance indicators utilised by the board can be split into key financial performance indicators and key non-financial performance indicators."
I'm beginning to suspect that these reports are now being written for a slightly different audience. Since GW returned to growth they have gotten both increased coverage within the British financial press as well as increased interest by individual retail investors.
To a large degree Kirby didn't have anyone paying attention. The majority of the institutional investors didn't care as GW represented such a small portion of their portfolios and the financial press barely covered them.
It could also just be that Rountree is just more professional and isn't going to ramble like Kirby did.
So here's a pretty key one:
"Product quality This is an indicator of the effectiveness of our design studio and our continuous improvement in design to manufacture. We measure this by looking at sell through. If the product is great we sell a lot, if not we sell very few."
The board of directors is looking at how well each new thing sells. They directly saw the instant selling out of Shadow War Armageddon and are probably quite aware of the sales numbers for something like the Firestorm campaign box for Age of Sigmar (which I'm going to guess did not hit their targets).
"It would be unrealistic, if not daft, of me to promise that we can continue to grow at the rates we have reported over the last two years. I am not, however, planning to scale down our ambitions, I am just informing you of the back drop."
I'm not going to try to predict the future, but it's possible that sales could fluctuate up and down very rapidly. Loads of former customers have been coming back and if they leave again after checking things out, things could drop off rapidly. I don't think it's going to happen that way, but I think GW's management is aware of the risks.
During the LOTR boom they massively expanded every part of their business and then when the last movie hit the theatres and the LOTR hype train had left the station, GW had retail locations and manufacturing operations for a whole lot of product that they weren't going to sell. I think this still looms in the background of what GW does.
"The total capital cost of this new facility including the purchase of the land will be approximately £9 million.
Our manufacturing investment included doubling the number of plastic injection moulding machines as well as flexing up our average production staffing levels from 143 to 198 at our HQ site in Nottingham. Production payroll costs have increased by £2.0 million to £5.9 million; as a percentage of Group revenue they have increased from 2.5% to 2.7%."
This does not strike me as the same sort of overly rapid expansion as they did near the turn of the millennium.
" The launch month, June 2017, reached new heights for us, which was no real surprise as the models and supporting gaming mechanics were better than ever."
Is this the first time GW's management has actually mentioned the actual mechanics of warhammer? I'm shocked
"Gross margin declined in the year (2018: 71.4%; 2017: 72.4%), as a direct result of some of the teething problems a step change in volumes brings."
I like how a tiny 1% decline in margins is taken so seriously. Least painful teething problems ever.
" It has also been affected by the sales mix of new and existing product - 38% of sales from new releases and 62% of sales from existing product - as well channel mix change."
So here's an example of actual obfuscation in a financial report. Sales from new releases have gone up. Last time this was reported it was closer to 33% and since they don't change their prices on old product and only on new product and target a 3% growth on prices, this would actually positively impact margins. It's the sales channel mix and the "teething pains."
The shift to people buying more new releases rather than less would in no way contribute to a reduction in gross margin as the margin on those products is simply better given what they say in the same report about how they are increasing their prices.
Notice how it's worded as to be technically true while giving the impression that this is some sort of explanation as it has details and numbers while the other factor "as well channel mix change" is tacked on with no details. The tacked on thing is the real explanation.
"As a direct result of our significant sales and profit growth, we rewarded all of our staff with a £1,500 discretionary payment in addition to a £1,000 profit share payment each (total cost £4.8 million). We also honoured our commitment to pay 20% of any sales increase to our retail store managers (total cost £2.9 million) who achieved sales growth whilst maintaining costs broadly in-line with last year."
This is such a huge change from the Kirby years. In previous reports Kirby actually talked about how they had replacements ready for any staff member that stepped out of line or didn't meet their sales goals.
"• Partworks - We learnt a great deal from the Battle Games in Middle-earth partwork launched back in 2002. And some of those lessons were painful! Now though, I think we are in the best position we’ve ever been to have another go. ‘Warhammer 40,000 Conquest’, a serialised product, will launch this summer."
I bet Rountree was trying to get Kirby to approve of using outside marketing like they did during the LOTR years for *years*. A Battle Games in the 41st Millennium should work well for them. Hopefully it gets distributed more widely than just the UK.
"When we say marketing at GW, we mean informing, engaging and inspiring our global community. Our commitment to talking with our customers has never been stronger, and their response never more positive. Warhammer-community.com has become the real home of Warhammer content online, with over 70 million page views in 2017/18 from almost 5 million users supported by tens of millions of interactions on social media."
And I'm guess they know that loads of people use their Combat Roster even if it doesn't have point values. I'm just throwing that out there because the various internet people who are 2000 point matched play only panned it when it launched. I think they are a minority of GW's customers and GW knows it. The type of content they are producing is for all approaches to play and it is working in terms of sales and will continue.
Yes, I'm aware that the quoted paragraph doesn't go into that at all, but when the report contains page views and users and video views from Warhammer TV, you know they are also paying attention to the uses of the Warscroll and 40k Roster programs.
"A key measure of our performance is return on capital. During the year our return on capital increased from 72% to 120%. This was driven by an increase in operating profit before royalty income, offset slightly by an increase in average capital employed."
This is probably the most important number in the entire report. Profit growth is nice and so is all the info about sales channels and expansions and whatever, but in the end GW is about making money on the money they put in. This also explains so much of what they do in terms of how they launch new product lines and which products might be selected for inclusion in products like Kill Team and Start Collecting boxes.
I maintain that Kill Team, like Shadow War Armageddon before it, was about hitting the return on capital targets for the terrain. The rules and ongoing support is nice, but the goal of kill team was to sell loads of the new terrain in one go to cover the capital invested in the project.
Compare this to how they did Age of Sigmar: Skirmish and Path to Glory. Stand alone books with some separate bundles.
Given that they pay attention to the sales of each product at the board room level, it's obvious which approach works better.
You can see the result in Malign Sorcery. Whereas previous expansions like Skirmish, Path to Glory and even Malign Portents were stand alone books with a handful of attached separate products, Malign Sorcery was handed over to their terrain team and bundled it all together as a larger set.
Expect more of that approach.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Something of note:
"net funds at the year end of £28.5 million"
Wow. For anyone who's been predicting GW's demise for the last decade that's never been less likely to happen. GW has made the changes needed and now they are sitting on so much cash. And that's after paying out massive dividends and profit sharing and bonuses to their employees. And investing massively in both the design studio and production and distribution including buying more land, building another building, adding more injection moulding machines, more production and design staff as well as taking on some 3rd party warehousing and logistics help.
And a bunch in spoilers:
Spoiler:
"Reported sales grew by 39% to £219.9 million for the year. On a constant currency basis, sales were up by 41% from £158.1 million to £222.6 million." and later "The net impact in the year of these exchange rate fluctuations on our operating profit was a decrease of £1.5 million (2017: increase of £7.0 million).
Lol. Looks like the BBC reporter had it exactly backwards. The change in the pound made GW's sales slightly less amazing, not contributed to it. Over a larger time frame, obviously the weaker pound did help GW but not this financial year.
Trade £96.2m (sales) £33.3m (profit) or 34.6% Retail £82.5m (sales) £6.7m (profit) or 8.1% Online £43.9m (sales) £27.9m (profit) or 63.6%
It's pretty clear that GW's online store has become the most efficient way of selling their product. Followed by trade sales. Their own stores are a very inefficient and high risk way to sell their products.
I think it's pretty clear that the primary role of their stores is recruitment. It's also important to remember that they barely made money on their stores last year and lost money on them in previous years.
If GW experiences even a small reversal, even a temporary one, in their sales, it'll show up in their retail channel first. They'll be the first thing to go back into loss making.
"net funds at the year end of £28.5 million"
Wow. For anyone who's been predicting GW's demise for the last decade that's never been less likely to happen. GW has made the changes needed and now they are sitting on so much cash. And that's after paying out massive dividends and profit sharing and bonuses to their employees. And investing massively in both the design studio and production and distribution including buying more land, building another building, adding more injection moulding machines, more production and design staff as well as taking on some 3rd party warehousing and logistics help.
They went from 360 one man stores to 379 one man stores over the last year. So I guess that continues to move forward anywhere where a store is borderline. So even with converting some stores back to multiemployee stores, the trend is still in the direction of cost cutting here. Despite all the growth, I'd say GW still hasn't cracked the code when it comes to retailing. They seem to be juggling different priorities like recruitment and sales goals. It'll be interesting how the Warhammer Cafe in Texas ends up performing and how much of any first year loss there gets accepted as a marketing cost.
I think there might be something to GW having a paid travelling promotions team or expanding their social media team to including facilitating clubs and escalation type army building in online communities. If the role of GW's retail arm is recruitment, maybe they could take a page from both religion and the insurance business and have some independently operating recruiters/sales people.
Australia and New Zealand 4.34 million up from 2.472 million.
Sorry Australia and New Zealand, but even with your higher prices sales still grew there by a very large percentage. You're paying it, so they'll keep charging it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Prediction for GW's sales six months from now (the half year report). Up. But not by such meteoric amounts. They've had their launch of both new 40k and worked their way through most of the codex books and introduced some new stuff like new Knights and Custodes and while lots of their new products are exactly what people are looking for, I think they've gotten the attention of most lapsed customers and are going to be hitting a bit of a normal recruitment grind going forward.
So let's say 5-15% sales growth and 10% or so profit growth (adjusted for the smaller half year period, of course). Return on capital will actually go up as the investments they are making now (new building, new machinery, new back end software system, restructuring of European business side) won't need to happen again.
I think they'll hit Rountree's goals of netting 25 more stores in operation. So maybe 12 or so by the half year mark. I expect the stores profitability levels to stay around 0-10% like they are now. I except their trade and online sales to see the majority of the growth as it's actually really easy for existing comic and game stores to stock GW (again?) and their social media reach is all about linking back to their online store.
stonehorse wrote:Good for them! This sends a very clear message to GW, engage with your customers, and produce products that they want and people will be more inclined to give you their custom.
As for going forward, I think we will see some classics return. Namely BFG, and an AoS version of Warmaster. That will bring in a lot of extra cash for them. The BFG community is still going strong and there is still a demand for the models, even if they have been out of production for nearly 10 years now.
Warmaster was a catastrophic failure when it came out. Unless they can come up with units that are too big for normal games of AOS, it'd be just as pointless as Warmaster, and die off just as fast.
Warmaster suffered from being metal, and providing an experience that people could already get from WHFB. A revamp could either bring rank & flank gameplay to the AoS setting thereby offering something notably different from the main game, or it can be revived with the WHF setting(even better, it could go "historical" with the Warhammer Chronicles branding and focus on something like the Great War) and trade on nostalgia. In either case, as a modern Specialist Game it would have its core range produced in plastic, preventing the situation we had last time when you could almost do Warmaster-sized battles with WHFB miniatures for the same cash outlay as a Warmaster army.
It did suffer from that, which is why it failed. It's also why after the year of that game languishing in shops next to all those expensive Inquisitor models we got our first significant price hike across the board.
Now, if Warmaster was the only way to play classic Old World games, it may just grow legs. It'd have to be more affordable than Warmaster was before, though.
They are already bringing back BFG, although rumors say it will be limited to the Horus Heresy setting for now.
Keep in mind that info is from back when they were just barely testing the waters for SG and the plans for Titanicus were a single plastic titan. BFG could be much bigger than originally planned, now.
Why they haven't done a version where your warrior can level up and fight all manner of creatures is beyond me. They should have started with a more generalised version, with a few new creepy crawlies included in the starter set, which has rules for all models currently available (encouraging people to buy them!).
I have no issue with lots of themed releases, afterward, with new adventurers and new models. I mean, these expansion versions could coincide with the release schedules of the armies such as the Nighthaunt, for example. Add a few exclusive Nighthaunt models to the game to tempt those who are collecting Nighthaunt armies and not even interested in Warhammer Quest and you are on to a winner.
They are already bringing back BFG, although rumors say it will be limited to the Horus Heresy setting for now.
Keep in mind that info is from back when they were just barely testing the waters for SG and the plans for Titanicus were a single plastic titan. BFG could be much bigger than originally planned, now.
BFG is planned for 2nd half of next year, not release but pre planning and design, it’s a long way off, but I’m patient.
I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.
Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.
The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.
8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.
FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.
ced1106 wrote: > GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following
That's too easy to say.
Frex, I'm on BGG and GW has released several boardgames that are popular there, such as Warhammer Quest, and Shadespire. GW has long been a well-known brand, but that doesn't mean it's fully tapped out its potential audience. They've also released various Play Now (?) kits for the miniature wargamer markets that are supposedly more accessible than previous sets.
If you continue to dismiss GW's customers as "fanbois", you won't understand why they've increased their profits.
I don't think it comes down to fanboyism entirely. Wargaming is a very expensive and time consuming hobby and 95% of non-historical wargamers likely started with Games Workshop products. As a result, getting people into alternative games is very, very, very difficult. What compounds this further is the need to have an active, long-term community also committed to those games. 40k will always have players, it will always be the 'safe' option, especially in the UK. Therefore if all your friends are playing 40k and there's barely anybody else touching the other games, people are going to stick with GW products. Good luck finding anything else beyond maybe Flames of War and Guild Ball in the most of the UK these days.
7th was was still pulling in a profit, just nowhere near what they are now. I suspect despite the almost universally agreed bin fire it was, the above played into that a great deal.
SeanDrake wrote: I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.
Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.
The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.
8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.
FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.
There's so much wrong with this statement, I'm not even sure where to start ripping it apart..
As far as I can tell their annual report doesn't break things down into sales per range and simply presents the total sales for the whole company and the overall view is almost totally positive - increases of sales everywhere; huge investment in additional manufacturing capacity to meet increased demand and to allow increased product development; increases in FW sales; changes to their stock organisation and warehousing to increase the efficiency of their stock flow etc...
Nothing in there to suggest that AoS is a failing issue; nor even that its of any concern at all. Certainly not a "black hole of finances". I agree Sigmar still has a way to go; it still needs some range areas cleaned up and it honestly needs what 40K just had (and is still having) which is to have prime focus for a year or so to get all the factions Battletomed up to standard (which I would not expect to see happen properly until after we've got Orks, Cultists and Space Wolves out of the way).
And nothing to suggest that FW is going away; though yes its clear that FW is going to change.
SeanDrake wrote: I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.
Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.
The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.
8th still sucks but at least it is profitable. AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.
FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.
There's so much wrong with this statement, I'm not even sure where to start ripping it apart..
SeanDrake is basically the Alex Jones of GW fandom. It's his schtick to make things up and then keep repeating them until he believes them himself.
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.
I highly doubt this. As in, I think it's a totally ridiculous claim. I don't think you get the kind of growth in profit GW has with one of your brands being so bad it can be described as "a black hole in their finances." I think both Idoneth Deepkin and Daughters of Khaine were massive successes for them. If I am going to be wrong about my prediction of only moderate growth in the half year report, it will be because AoS 2nd edition and Malign Sorcery sold better than I think it did. I think it sold well, but it's possible sales were even higher.
The other thing to ask yourself is if you believe that GW's social media, youtube and warhammer community approach works. Has it contributed to the growth of their sales? If the answer is yes, then why would not that same marketing strategy work for Age of Sigmar as it has for 40k? Why assume AoS is somehow still losing money (and badly) if the whole customer facing marketing aparatus of GW is so obviously successful?
I think the greatest evidence that Age of Sigmar is doing well for GW is the increase in sales that are new releases. During this period there were some pretty amazing 40k releases, but also Kharadron Overlords, Idoneth Deepkin, Maggotkin of Nurgle and Daughters of Khaine. It would be truly strange (if not impossible) for their overall sales of new releases to go up with so much of their new products being Age of Sigmar if AoS was a "a black hole in their finances." This becomes even more impossible when you also consider their return on capital going up so much. Just how do they maintain a higher return on capital when new releases are selling more than last year and so much of the year was AoS releases? The AoS kits have the same capital costs (design, tooling, production) as an equivalent 40k kit, so if they truly were doing badly, that would devastate their return on capital.
Sales of new releases were up. Much of the new product was AoS. Return on capital is way, way up. So at the very least your claim is highly suspect. Likely, it's totally backwards and AoS might be a shining light in their finances compared to previous years. We will have to wait till next report to see how 2nd edition AoS shakes out though.
FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.
Forgeworld needs a massive injection of cash into their game design side of things. The amount of inconsistencies, borked points that show a lack of playtesting show they desperately need some dedicated developers there. I have absolutely no idea how this part of their business is doing, but I doubt Forgeworld is doing as well as when 7th edition 40k was around and their games looked so good in comparison. Alan Bligh was also a game design machine whose absence will be felt both personally and practically for a long while.
The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.
Nope. Check the financial report. The pound has been largely flat this last year and the report specifically indicates that at a constant currency basis from a year ago, their sales would have been a percent or two higher. You'll need to go back a further year to find the positive constant currency impact on GW's sales.
Also, doesn't GW sell in the EU in Euros? There's no indication by region that European people are buying from UK based sellers. Sales year over year in the EU are up and they don't get to buy in GBP, do they? So the second half of your statement is off as well.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
EDIT- see the post above mine for how his post should have dissected.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
The burden of proof is on the one making a claim, not the one refuting it.
My refutation is simple though: AoS being a black hole in their finances is incompatible with what we know about the sale of new releases, the effectiveness of their internet marketing and the massive growth on their return on capital given the sheer number of AoS releases during the year this report is for.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
I don’t think you understand how debate works.
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
I don’t think you understand how debate works.
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.
No, I agree. You don't seem to understand this. The accusation is "AoS is a black hole in GW's finances". That is what needs to be proven. Disagreeing with said accusation does not shift the burden of proof to the naysayer.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
EDIT- see the post above mine for how his post should have dissected.
Uh, no, that certainly isn't how debate works... if you make a strong claim unsupported by evidence there is no need to prove that it's wrong. The statement can simply be dismissed.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Think it’s best to start with asking for evidence and rationale to support stuff like AoS being ‘a black hole in their finances’.
Seems the obvious opening?
Well the burden of proof lies with the accuser- i.e. you.
Prove him wrong, that's how debate works. He has made a statement, you have accused him of it being incorrect- the ball is now in your court.
I don’t think you understand how debate works.
That is how it works- ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" AKA the burden of proof lies with the accuser.
SeanDrake wrote: I think the irony is that the land they bought was land they sold a decade ago because they were not using it.
Larger production facilities is a bit of a no brainer and hopefully includes a modern machine as given what there guys manage to produce now, I am curious what they could do with the machines that the chinise company that makes Malifaux and KD act use.
The slump in the pound was a nice bonus for them as it means an extra 10-15% on every sale outside UK and a boost in UK sales with people from the EU buying stuff cheap.
8th still sucks but at least it is profitable.
AoS still sucks and is still a black hole in there finances.
FW seem to have got screwed and I doubt will still be around by next financials in any recogniseable form.
Personally I think both 8th Edition and AoS are great, light years better than their older editions, especially in the AoS area (WFB was atrociously boring). FW seems to be doing fine from what I understand, so these statements strike me as off the cuff and not based on any solid data...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
An Actual Englishman wrote: I suspect much of this profit is largely on the back of the influx of new players from 8th edition and AOS 2.0.
As to GW giving people what they want? Kinda. They've given some people what they want. They've promised a lot and so far haven't delivered on all of it. The promise to deliver "all major codexes within a year of 8th release" has fallen by the wayside. It will only take a few more broken promises to see a negative shift in perception and that will hurt their bottom line.
I'm interested to know how much of their profit is due to mobile, console and PC gaming too.
Again, what are you talking about? There are very few codexes left to release and still 6 months of release time. We've seen an update to KT, we've seen loads of new models, new games, new armies. Terrain kits for both systems.
