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Blastaar wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

And 8th edition brought all of us old grumbling complainy gamers who basically quit after 2nd/3rd edition back into the fold and spending our adult incomes.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


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 silent25 wrote:

Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.

I'm guessing that's because with the edition change there just hasn't been much (new) product around for people to buy

I'm really pretty surprised Warmachine is holding on at No3, despite the clear problems of the MK3 launch, pressgager and forum removals etc, I guess this may well mean it's stabilized, and shows quite how far AoS still has to climb

Still a new Star Wars movie (Last Jedi) and several items tied to it did come out. Guess the glow is off the Star Wars rose and mediocre movies aren't helping drive kids to the game anymore.

 judgedoug wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
GW profits double and WH40K is the top selling miniature game

Apparently 8th edition is all broken though

Something can sell well, and still be poor. GW is in a unique position with an extremely devoted following, many of whom will continue to purchase their products no matter what they do. Even 7th edition was profitable.

And 8th edition brought all of us old grumbling complainy gamers who basically quit after 2nd/3rd edition back into the fold and spending our adult incomes.

This describes me to a T. I've spent at least 400$ just on codexes/rules in order to find out the game is just as broken/imbalanced as I left it. Let's not talk about what I've spent freshening up my collection and chasing a meta that has run laps around me. I'm curious what happens next year. But with primarchs pretty much printing money I can easily see campaign books with primarch releases sustaining them into 2020 and then it will be time for 9th...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


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 silent25 wrote:

Shocked that X-Wing is off the ICV2 chart. Interest in Legion has died in my area, so don't know how much that has left in the tank.

I'm guessing that's because with the edition change there just hasn't been much (new) product around for people to buy

I'm really pretty surprised Warmachine is holding on at No3, despite the clear problems of the MK3 launch, pressgager and forum removals etc, I guess this may well mean it's stabilized, and shows quite how far AoS still has to climb

Still a new Star Wars movie (Last Jedi) and several items tied to it did come out. Guess the glow is off the Star Wars rose and mediocre movies aren't helping drive kids to the game anymore.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I suspect much of this profit is largely on the back of the influx of new players from 8th edition and AOS 2.0.

As to GW giving people what they want? Kinda. They've given some people what they want. They've promised a lot and so far haven't delivered on all of it. The promise to deliver "all major codexes within a year of 8th release" has fallen by the wayside. It will only take a few more broken promises to see a negative shift in perception and that will hurt their bottom line.

I'm interested to know how much of their profit is due to mobile, console and PC gaming too.

Considering that most of the GW games on computer are by smaller studios that produce games which range from rubbish to ok I doubt its a vast slice. For every Dawn of War or TW Warhammer there are a half dozen so-so titles or just very niche ones.

As for the codex, lets be honest, this is the first time in decades where they've tried to do it. They've what, got 3 planned codex still to go and a 4th that is new in the works (Sisters of Battle). I'd say they've done darn well and sure there is some delay or pause for codex; but then again Sigmar, AT, Bloodbowl and others did need some room to get stuff out too. I'ts not as if GW has shut down all production and focus on orks

I mean heck in any other edition you had to cross your fingers and offer sacrifices to forgotten pagan gods just to have the hope that your army would even see a codex for the edition.

 Overread wrote:

I mean heck in any other edition you had to cross your fingers and offer sacrifices to forgotten pagan gods just to have the hope that your army would even see a codex for the edition.

It seems like enough players are conditioned to this that I see people expecting 9th edition in the fall.

It's interesting how the market reacted to the news..

http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/198508/games-workshop-share-price-war-hammered-after-in-line-trading-update-198508.html

Evidently it feels slightly skeptical that the current pace can be sustained like I do.

I think everyone expects GW to eventually ease off on the pressure at some point - however right now we are getting weekly releases and I'm not going to complain about that

Very impressive results from GW. To double profits for two years in a row is pretty exceptional. Increasing their revenue to over 200 million also suggests they are reaching beyond their base and getting new customers.

There are a few interesting pieces of info from the report. The space marine heroes range that is currently Japan only, is going global. The warhammer conquests part works series is coming back this summer. No info on whether it will still be UK only unfortunately.

In terms of break downs the only interesting bit is about forgeworld. The report stated that ANYTHING made in plastic is Citadel and ANYTHING made in resin is Forgeworld.
That said in online sales Citadel increased by 52% this year but Forgeworld only increased by 4%
This may explain the changes to the forgeworld range that is happening.
They did say that they considered their 3 main ranges to be 40k, Aos and Horus Heresy, which suggests that Horus Heresy is not going away any time soon.

Chikout wrote:
They did say that they considered their 3 main ranges to be 40k, Aos and Horus Heresy, which suggests that Horus Heresy is not going away any time soon.

That makes me a bit worried though, about Lord of the Rings line. Let's hope all the great work that seems to be coming out for LotR will not be going anywhere as well.

Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.

Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor and the new fluff is abominable ), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.

Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile

 streetsamurai wrote:
Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.

Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.

Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile

Kirby was out for himself and got exactly what he wanted - dividends out the arse and occasion to funnel off a little extra via nepotistic contracts. And now he can sit back and enjoy the additional value on his stock in the company thanks to the work of others. Ain't capitalism grand?

As to the report, the big deal as far as I'm concerned is the production expansion. I doubt very much they needed to double their plastics production capacity and so radically increase their staffing level just to address the bottleneck they've been dealing with for the last wee while, so the fact they are suggests they have some big plans, will be interesting to see what they are.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
It seems Nolzur's is in the top 5 every year, and yet I'm not even sure what it is. The only time I see it mentioned is the the ICv2 ranking. I don't ever see it discussed of the blogs I frequent. I've always assumed it referred to the minis people use in D&D.

They're basically just better Bones, that are pre-primed. They have the advantage of the Dungeons and Dragons brand and can use their IP protected monsters, but weirdly they still don't have a dragon mini.

And after one release of skeleton warriors, they discontinued them since nobody uses skeletons in RPGs and fantasy wargames. Esp. affordable, nice-looking one piece castings that are already primed.

Back on topic, I think GW have made several good moves over the past 1-3 years. Necromunda has cheesed me and our group off---about the drip-feed, error-riddled rules releases. But 40k and AoS have all been big locally.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.

Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.

Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile

Kirby was out for himself and got exactly what he wanted - dividends out the arse and occasion to funnel off a little extra via nepotistic contracts. And now he can sit back and enjoy the additional value on his stock in the company thanks to the work of others. Ain't capitalism grand?

As to the report, the big deal as far as I'm concerned is the production expansion. I doubt very much they needed to double their plastics production capacity and so radically increase their staffing level just to address the bottleneck they've been dealing with for the last wee while, so the fact they are suggests they have some big plans, will be interesting to see what they are.

Indeed. Hopefully, they will allot more manufacturing capacities to Specialist games. necro would be more so more better if they would invest more in it.

 EnTyme wrote:
In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.

Source (BoLS): http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/tabletop-industry-the-top-5-games-of-2018-are.html

The first thing I'd like to say is congratulations on GW for topping it yet again.

Second, anybody who has issues with the current rule set for 40K need to get comfortable, it isn't going anywhere.

Third, WFB was #3 in the top games list, yet it got nuked to make AOS. What does this say about AOS? Maybe eventually get folded into 40K if it doesn't improve? Or is the sales thing hogwash to make things more copyrightable?

So they had their first good year since the LOTR bubble in the year where everyone knew a new 40k edition was coming out and likely put holds on what they were buying. Then they have this year which they destroyed because of the new 40k edition. And they saved the AoS edition drop for the current year we're in addition to relaunching LoTR and dropping a new specialist game plus Kill Team while they continue to roll out books. GW is pretty much killing it. Glad to see their numbers supporting their current practices where there is only a single mistep here and there instead of their being a good decision here or there like it was 4 years ago.


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 Just Tony wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.

Source (BoLS): http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/tabletop-industry-the-top-5-games-of-2018-are.html

The first thing I'd like to say is congratulations on GW for topping it yet again.

Second, anybody who has issues with the current rule set for 40K need to get comfortable, it isn't going anywhere.

Third, WFB was #3 in the top games list, yet it got nuked to make AOS. What does this say about AOS? Maybe eventually get folded into 40K if it doesn't improve? Or is the sales thing hogwash to make things more copyrightable?

WFB was 3rd way back. Like 6th edition, maybe early 7th. And even then the tactical squad and rhino outsold the entire range....

This is just online sales correct?
I can see WM being so high, purely based on the fact that getting any of that consumer base to buy retail is like pulling teeth from teeth.
Odd to not see Pathfinder being higher in RPG's. I knew DnD was kicking but in sales (hence PF 2.0 suddenly) but to see starfinder sell better is extremely surprising.

No it covers pretty much everything in North America bar GW stores if i'm not mistaken

Our primary means of collecting data about hobby games sales is interviews with key industry figures with good visibility to sales in various categories and channels. We also review data released by publicly traded companies, and Kickstarter data and analysis, especially that released by ICO Partners. There were no major changes in methodology for 2017.


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 Just Tony wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
In related news, ICv2 released their annual sales rankings. Warhammer 40k was the #1 miniatures game, and Age of Sigmar was #5. I'm interested to see how the new edition of AoS will affect sales for next year's rankings.

Source (BoLS): http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/tabletop-industry-the-top-5-games-of-2018-are.html

The first thing I'd like to say is congratulations on GW for topping it yet again.

Second, anybody who has issues with the current rule set for 40K need to get comfortable, it isn't going anywhere.

Third, WFB was #3 in the top games list, yet it got nuked to make AOS. What does this say about AOS? Maybe eventually get folded into 40K if it doesn't improve? Or is the sales thing hogwash to make things more copyrightable?

At the end of its run WHFB was, much like AOS, oscillating between the 5th place and being out of the ranking. So, yeah, the change to AOS seems to have given pretty much nothing, bar frustration among the fan base and the loss of a strong IP. But then, no need to cry over spilled milk. WHFB is not coming back and AOS is starting to show some potential, rulewise and fluffwise.

Even if the result seems to be not impressive, I'm pretty sure they will continue to support AOS. Would be a huge admission of failure if they don't do so, and I sincerly doubt they would want to face the backlash, unless it's really starting to be a financial drain (which I doubt it is)

Justyn wrote:
I like how the article says its due to the weak Pound. GW forces retailers to use their exchange rates so that isn't really a factor.

GW has religiously used that excuse in their annual reports for the last decade. No shock it rubbed off on reporting.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Not too surprising considering a new 40k edition was released this year, and this always caused a huge increase in sales and profits.

Still, GW is doing a lot of great thing recently (even if i think that most of their rules are rather poor), and the quality of their plastic minis are miles ahead of their competitor.

Who would have thought engaging with the community and releasing games tons of people were clamoring for would pay off??? God Kirby was a first grade imbecile

Kirby was out for himself and got exactly what he wanted - dividends out the arse and occasion to funnel off a little extra via nepotistic contracts. And now he can sit back and enjoy the additional value on his stock in the company thanks to the work of others. Ain't capitalism grand?

As to the report, the big deal as far as I'm concerned is the production expansion. I doubt very much they needed to double their plastics production capacity and so radically increase their staffing level just to address the bottleneck they've been dealing with for the last wee while, so the fact they are suggests they have some big plans, will be interesting to see what they are.

Indeed. Hopefully, they will allot more manufacturing capacities to Specialist games. necro would be more so more better if they would invest more in it.

could be but another thing to consider is additional 40k armies. their factory lag last time suggested their factory was proably more or less at capacity without a lot of room for exapsnion. GW's been dabbling with new armies since 6th edition of 40k, but in 6th edition most of the "new" armies where more tossing stuff into a new codex that we already had (legion of the damned I'm looking at you)
later on in 7th we began to see actual new armies, an unprecidented number of them, death watch, genestealer cults, 1 thousand sons (yes technicly they where CSMs until 8th dropped their coidex but come ion we all knew )

My guess is a big part of this is a continued commitment to expanding their product line. Aka, expect new AOS and 40k armies.

Does this mean there's a reason why BL will soon print an anthology of Aeronautica Imperialis stories?

Voss wrote:

Justyn wrote:
I like how the article says its due to the weak Pound. GW forces retailers to use their exchange rates so that isn't really a factor.

GW has religiously used that excuse in their annual reports for the last decade. No shock it rubbed off on reporting.

They're actually telling the truth this time though, the £ is down the drain t the moment. In regard to GW setting their own exchange rate, that is true, but when the profits are repatriated and converted back to £'s it goes further due to them now getting £1 for every $1.3 rather than the last decade where it's been £1 for $1.5-2

 streetsamurai wrote:
No it covers pretty much everything in North America bar GW stores if i'm not mistaken

Our primary means of collecting data about hobby games sales is interviews with key industry figures with good visibility to sales in various categories and channels. We also review data released by publicly traded companies, and Kickstarter data and analysis, especially that released by ICO Partners. There were no major changes in methodology for 2017.

This is the first time they openly mention Kickstarter in the totals. That was a question in previous lists if it included the totals. I don't see why they would exclude store sales from GW, but include direct sales from say a Mantic KS? From ICV2 number and GW's numbers, GW accounts for about a third of non-collectible miniature market in North America.

As for the factory expansion, don't forget they are ramping up Specialist Games and this additional production capability will likely support further products coming out from there.

That makes me a bit worried though, about Lord of the Rings line. Let's hope all the great work that seems to be coming out for LotR will not be going anywhere as well.

I think the report only talks about own brands there, LotR is a licensed product.

As to the computer games question: that is basically everything in the royalties section, so 9 million-ish in revenue.

http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/201914/games-workshop-s-shares-slide-despite-record-breaking-year-201914.html

They added that there “is plenty to look forward to” for the firm, citing a sharp increase in customer engagement with 100,000 views per day of video content, new product development and the exploration of animation and live action strategies.

So, Space Marines Saturday morning cartoon confirmed?

Their profits have doubled?

Just like their prices in Australia/NZ/Japan/Brazil/etc.

Good for them! This sends a very clear message to GW, engage with your customers, and produce products that they want and people will be more inclined to give you their custom.

As for going forward, I think we will see some classics return. Namely BFG, and an AoS version of Warmaster. That will bring in a lot of extra cash for them. The BFG community is still going strong and there is still a demand for the models, even if they have been out of production for nearly 10 years now.

Chopstick wrote:
Err, I hope the profit would make GW invest more on plastic production for specialist games. ( probably not)

Even if they did plastic designs and moulds they probably wouldn't have the production capacity though.


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richred_uk wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
Err, I hope the profit would make GW invest more on plastic production for specialist games. ( probably not)

Not specified as Specialist Games, but from the Annual Report:

Capacity
Manufacturing
We have accelerated our investment in manufacturing capacity during the year as well as improved our logistics and distribution
service levels. These will, alongside our investment in people and technology, lay the foundation for future volume growth. In the
year we purchased two acres of land at the cost of £1.7 million next to our HQ in Nottingham and later this year will have
redeveloped this site to increase our manufacturing capacity as well as improve our R&D capabilities. The total capital cost of
this new facility including the purchase of the land will be approximately £9 million.
Our manufacturing investment included doubling the number of plastic injection moulding machines as well as flexing up our
average production staffing levels from 143 to 198 at our HQ site in Nottingham. Production payroll costs have increased by
£2.0 million to £5.9 million; as a percentage of Group revenue they have increased from 2.5% to 2.7%.

https://s19485.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2017-18-Press-statement-final-v.pdf

Double the number of injection moulders, 1/3 increase in production staff and buying/ building quite a big new facility - should be some capacity to get more Specialist stuff out along with the core ranges

Oh! Now THAT is interesting.

 General Helstrom wrote:
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/201914/games-workshop-s-shares-slide-despite-record-breaking-year-201914.html

They added that there “is plenty to look forward to” for the firm, citing a sharp increase in customer engagement with 100,000 views per day of video content, new product development and the exploration of animation and live action strategies.

So, Space Marines Saturday morning cartoon confirmed?

Nah. Cartoon versions of the kids' books they're releasing.

And live action will be Hiking with Roboute - A Scenic Tour Through Ultramar.

If it turns out closer to Rebels, I’d watch it.


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Also, nice to see them doing an Amazon (hopefully minus the tax dodging) and putting profit into investment.