Where can i find points cost of Great Unclean One?

Thanks.

Chapter Approved 2018 for most current pts.

Sorry i dont know what that is. After google search looks like another type of book.

Can some one just tell me this, to play black legion, do i need a codex or the index or both ? or do i need also this 3rd book "chapter approved 2018"?

 Stormatious wrote:
Sorry i dont know what that is. After google search looks like another type of book.

Can some one just tell me this, to play black legion, do i need a codex or the index or both ? or do i need also this 3rd book "chapter approved 2018"?

In order to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One you need:

Main Rulebook
Main Rulebook FAQ
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing) FAQ
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Daemons FAQ
Chapter Approved 2018 for the latest points costs.
Chapter Approved 2018 FAQ (because the book of errata needs errata)
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze for additional Black Legion faction rules
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze FAQ

If you are new, you don't need Index: Chaos, those are for legacy models from before the GW No Model, No Rules policy.

Or just do what everyone else does and use Battlescribe because GW's current book policy is a joke.

Chapter Approved is a more-or-less annual update to the 40K core game. It includes things like rules tweaks, new mission types, and any changes made to points values. It's where the latest points will be.

Other options would be the Daemons codex, but it may have changed since that was published; or an unofficial app like BattleScribe - but then you do need to trust that whoever has created the Daemons codex data has got it right / up to date.

You wouldn't need the Index for Black Legion unless you wanted to run an old model that no longer has rules in the Codex, e.g. a Khorne Lord mounted on a Juggernaut. Otherwise the Codex has superceded the Index.

I *think* the recent re-released update of the CSM Codex includes everything now. There might be some stuff in the Vigilus campaign book(s) too though.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
Sorry i dont know what that is. After google search looks like another type of book.

Can some one just tell me this, to play black legion, do i need a codex or the index or both ? or do i need also this 3rd book "chapter approved 2018"?

In order to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One you need:

Main Rulebook
Main Rulebook FAQ
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing) FAQ
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Daemons FAQ
Chapter Approved 2018 for the latest points costs.
Chapter Approved 2018 FAQ (because the book of errata needs errata)
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze for additional Black Legion faction rules
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze FAQ

If you are new, you don't need Index: Chaos, those are for legacy models from before the GW No Model, No Rules policy.

Or just do what everyone else does and use Battlescribe because GW's current book policy is a joke.

Im confused as hell, i assume your joking about 10 different books. So battlescribe is all i need then?

So confusing, why even have codex's or any of this gak if its always changing.

My brains exploding.

FAQs aren't books, they're just lists of corrections published online

 Stormatious wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
Sorry i dont know what that is. After google search looks like another type of book.

Can some one just tell me this, to play black legion, do i need a codex or the index or both ? or do i need also this 3rd book "chapter approved 2018"?

In order to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One you need:

Main Rulebook
Main Rulebook FAQ
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing) FAQ
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Daemons FAQ
Chapter Approved 2018 for the latest points costs.
Chapter Approved 2018 FAQ (because the book of errata needs errata)
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze for additional Black Legion faction rules
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze FAQ

If you are new, you don't need Index: Chaos, those are for legacy models from before the GW No Model, No Rules policy.

Or just do what everyone else does and use Battlescribe because GW's current book policy is a joke.

Im confused as hell, i assume your joking about 10 different books. So battlescribe is all i need then?

Thanks

No, I am not joking. Those are literally the documents you need in order to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One.

Then why do you say just use battle scribe like every one else? if i need those documents.

 Stormatious wrote:
Then why do you say just use battle scribe like every one else? if i need those documents.

Because Battlescribe is only useful for building armies. It doesn't contain all the rules needed and as it's community based it can contain errors. The rulebooks are the only sources with all the rules and are always correct (at least once you apply the errata since 90% of GWs physical books are not worth the paper they are printed on due to the huge amount of errata. In fact not a single codex GW has released in 8th is usable without errata).

What does errata mean?


So if i wanted to play as black legion with out GUO what would i need then?

 Stormatious wrote:
What does errata mean?


So if i wanted to play as black legion with out GUO what would i need then?

erratum
/ɛˈrɑːtəm/
noun
plural noun: errata
a list of corrected errors appended to a book or published in a subsequent issue of a journal.

GW correct the multitude of errors in their books via online PDFs. https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

If you don't want the GUO you can drop the Chaos Daemons codex.

Thanks Bacon.


So i just need The rule book and csm codex and dice and measuring ojbect?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and not the index?

 Stormatious wrote:
Thanks Bacon.


So i just need The rule book and csm codex and dice and measuring ojbect?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and not the index?

At the bare minimum, yes. You don't need the index for sure.

Ok thanks Half cat half bacon that wears goggles and a hat Dakka user


Thanks. ( expect more noob questions most likely in this thread if thats ok )

Kind of depends on where you're going to play as well.

Some places are more fussy than others. You may need to have access to, and follow, all the new rules from the latest Chapter Approved. You may not. You may need a physical copy of the relevant codex and printed errata for any model you field, or you may not.

E.g. I literally just play against 1 regular opponent, and one other guy once in a blue moon. We've not bought any of the Chapter Approved books yet. We're quite happy to play new or experimental lists just using the available data in BattleScribe.

Your mileage may vary.

So with Battlescribe ( i have it installed ), does this include things i need that replaces me having to bring CSM codex and a rule book?


And thanks for your post.

Battlescribe is an aid to using the books.
Without the codex, you won't have explanations of some parts of how the army works. Battlescribe gives you most of that, but is not a replacement for the codex or rulebook.

The Chapter Approved is an annual rejig of the points as a whole, all at once.

Every* book GW has published has been updated with errata and FAQ just after release. Battlescribe is good for knowing which points are correct. It also tries to keep the rules adjustments in one place.

If you have the Enhanced books on an Apple device, they (I think) get updated when a rule or points change happens. Other digital rules don't seem to.

 Stormatious wrote:
So with Battlescribe ( i have it installed ), does this include things i need that replaces me having to bring CSM codex and a rule book?


And thanks for your post.

Battlescribe simply makes it easier to make legal armies and calculate points costs. It's a supplement to the codex, not a replacement.

 Stormatious wrote:

and not the index?

No, you do not need the index at all.
when this edition launched they put out a series of Index books so that everyone had lists right off the bat (instead of their usual practice of spacing the books out & leaving some people hanging for a year+). And then they started putting out the actual codex books wich pretty much overwrote the index lists.
The Index lists though do contain some models & options that GW has since cut from the line/didn't include as options once they started pumping out this editions actual Codex books. Those specific things remain valid options, but to use them you need the Index (or Battlescribe). It's more for us existing players.
I do recommend eventually picking up a copy (especially if you can get it cheap), but for right now you don't really have much need for it.

Ok, ill find a tutorial or some thing on how to use it properly.


Thanks for your patience.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

and not the index?

No, you do not need the index at all.
when this edition launched they put out a series of Index books so that everyone had lists right off the bat (instead of their usual practice of spacing the books out & leaving some people hanging for a year+). And then they started putting out the actual codex books wich pretty much overwrote the index lists.
The Index lists though do contain some models & options that GW has since cut from the line/didn't include as options once they started pumping out this editions actual Codex books. Those specific things remain valid options, but to use them you need the Index (or Battlescribe). It's more for us existing players.
I do recommend eventually picking up a copy (especially if you can get it cheap), but for right now you don't really have much need for it.

Oh ok, so any models that are availabile from 8th edition and on wards till today are in the codex's?

 Stormatious wrote:
Oh ok, so any models that are availabile from 8th edition and on wards till today are in the codex's?

Due to the Chapter House Lawsuits (no need to worry about exactly what those were right now), GW adopted a "No Models, No Rules" policy with the codexes. In short, Codexes only reflect what the kits they actually sell are capable of doing, while Indexes account for the 30 or so years of when they didn't have that stupid policy and thus allowed for kitbashes. The two examples that always stick in my head are Dreadnoughts (you used to be able to kitbash Autocannons or Plasma Cannons for them, and FW even sold those arms) and Kor'sarro Khan on Moondrakken, because a White Scars Captain not being able to use a bike makes total sense /s.

Of course, they won't admit that. Their official reasoning is the laughable notion that new players might get "confused" as to why they didn't get X in their box of overpriced plastic but the codex says they can take X despite one of the reasons the hobby exists is the model making part.

But yes, Codexes are what you need if you're just starting for the first time in 8th edition.

If you are only played a friend you can get away with...

Index Chaos
OR Codex Chaos Space Marines

AND
The Big Rule Book.

You'll be playing with out of date rules, but that's a cheap and easy way to get around it, but you will be missing out on the points values and any adjustment to rules that might benefit you.

The points and individual abilities and rules of units are within Battlescribe (a fremium app on PC, Phone). These can be wrong sometimes, but it's a good way to build an army.
Many clubs may ask you to bring along your rules/codex etc too. At my club I take:
Codex Chaos Space Marines, Index Chaos (as I have an older model not in Codex) and a "Core Rules" card. I also take my battlescribe references printed out and put onto cards so I can reference them faster. I virtually never take out the codex as I can rely on the BattleScribe.

[SEE BACONCATBUGS HELPFUL COMMENTS BELOW FOR FULL STORY] Alternatively you can purchase the ebook Codex from GW. Apparently this will automatically update points and when they make changes to it - I know there are two formats for these and I don't have either. It saves you the hassle of bringing books and should be up to date. BUT a physical book can be easier to reference sometimes and you can sell it on afterwards - not so with the digital copy.

TarkinLarson wrote:
Alternatively you can purchase the ebook Codex from GW. Apparently this will automatically update points and when they make changes to it - I know there are two formats for these and I don't have either. It saves you the hassle of bringing books and should be up to date. BUT a physical book can be easier to reference sometimes and you can sell it on afterwards - not so with the digital copy.

The ebooks don't update. Only the locked down Apple versions do.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:
Alternatively you can purchase the ebook Codex from GW. Apparently this will automatically update points and when they make changes to it - I know there are two formats for these and I don't have either. It saves you the hassle of bringing books and should be up to date. BUT a physical book can be easier to reference sometimes and you can sell it on afterwards - not so with the digital copy.

The ebooks don't update. Only the locked down Apple versions do.

Thanks for the correction... you could probably tell I wasn't sure!

TarkinLarson wrote:
If you are only played a friend you can get away with...

Index Chaos
OR Codex Chaos Space Marines

AND
The Big Rule Book.

You'll be playing with out of date rules, but that's a cheap and easy way to get around it, but you will be missing out on the points values and any adjustment to rules that might benefit you.

The points and individual abilities and rules of units are within Battlescribe (a fremium app on PC, Phone). These can be wrong sometimes, but it's a good way to build an army.
Many clubs may ask you to bring along your rules/codex etc too. At my club I take:
Codex Chaos Space Marines, Index Chaos (as I have an older model not in Codex) and a "Core Rules" card. I also take my battlescribe references printed out and put onto cards so I can reference them faster. I virtually never take out the codex as I can rely on the BattleScribe.

Alternatively you can purchase the ebook Codex from GW. Apparently this will automatically update points and when they make changes to it - I know there are two formats for these and I don't have either. It saves you the hassle of bringing books and should be up to date. BUT a physical book can be easier to reference sometimes and you can sell it on afterwards - not so with the digital copy.

Why would that be playing with out of date rules?



Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TarkinLarson wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:
Alternatively you can purchase the ebook Codex from GW. Apparently this will automatically update points and when they make changes to it - I know there are two formats for these and I don't have either. It saves you the hassle of bringing books and should be up to date. BUT a physical book can be easier to reference sometimes and you can sell it on afterwards - not so with the digital copy.

The ebooks don't update. Only the locked down Apple versions do.

Thanks for the corretion... you could probably tell I wasn't sure!

Do half bacon half bug half cats have psychic powers? That's not surprising really. ( because it looks like it can fly aswell, so why not )

Edit - Looks like the *person. Not "it". My bad. Didn't mean to call Baconcatbug "it".

 Stormatious wrote:

Why would that be playing with out of date rules?

Thanks!

Lets give an example. If you solely play with the Index and BRB... which is probably the absolute bare minimum you need to actually get a game off the ground... you'll miss out on some new rules they've added in since (eg: Bolter Discipline, relics, strategems) not to mention points balances of models which have happened in the subsequent Codex, Chapter Approved, Errata etc.

It really depends on what you want to get out of the game. You can play with the basic £25 basic box set which has a handful of Primaris Marines and Plague Marines. That will have some datasheets and core rules. You'll miss out on the interesting lore, pictures and extra rules in the BRB and index and codex.
If you go for a Dark Imperium box set, you'll get (old) datasheets for Death Guard and Primaris Space Marines and a Big Rule Book. That is enough for you to get quite a few games out and played, especially if there are two people starting out and learning the rules.

If you want to get a little more out of it and play with extras, but just want a cheap introduction in, there are the Index books. They don't have all the brand spanking new strategems and specialist detachments but they should have rules and stats for all but the latest models (see Shadowspear box set etc). This'll get you going. The Index books can be found for ~£10 each on eBay at the moment and they can cover multiple armies.

I've never bought chapter approved - for most people they have points increases and new campaigns and missions. Vigilus Ablaze and Vigilus Defiant also had good campaigns... but they had the specialist detachments.

Unfortunately the way that GW do their rules and datasheets means that you can end up spending more on book than a small army IF you want to play with all the latest rules.

OP
BattleScribe will get you through most things as it has the rules for the units with FAQs (gw’s errata/free game fixes) already applied. May not be perfect but it will get you through your games. Black Legion you will want the codex Chaos Space Marines version 2 (it has a 2 on the cover) but the old codex will work too though you will want Vigilus Ablaze (I have the old codex and had to get VA... plus Shadowspear Demonkin. Get the version 2 book I’d say)

I don’t know about Daemons but sounds like you will need the Daemon codex as well for the Great Unclean Ones.

The errata that is online is something you can skim and print down the line, I would worry too much about it at first.

Chapter Approved 2018 is also something I wouldn’t worry about at first. Maybe down the line or look for the points updates online. Someone took a picture of the point updated and put them online somewhere.

Anyone who gives you a hard time because your new and you didn't bring a library with you is someone you don’t want to play and should tell them to f- off. But that is my double pennies.

Personally I would just get the Codex of the army you wish to play, get a copy main rule book and build your army using Battlescribe.

With those 3 resources you can get plenty of games in to learn the majority of the basics. When you have had some games and have gotten familiar with your army you will then start to notice perhaps odd wording or rules that in some situations don't clarify what you're actually allowed or not allowed to do. This is where the FAQ's come in, they tend to answer and correct these odd rules. [these are online for free and really once you have read them you will remember them, but print them out if you need]

For the chapter approved books these really only add a few new things in, like game modes and some finalised beta rules. I wouldn't worry to much about that until you have learnt the game really.

If your learning with a friend who is also starting out, that's great as it will matter less if your not 100% up to date on chapter approved, FAQ's etc. But if you just popping down to your local store to play 9/10 times the people you play with will help you learn and point out bits and bobs you may miss, so again, not to much bother if you don't have all 17 million books straight away!

Once you are well versed with your army [know most stats + unit rules of the top of your head] its likely you will not need to worry about buying the extra books like chapter approved because once you read a mates or something you will just commit the tiny small new bits that are relevant to your army to memory after reading.

Something to keep in mind when using Battlescribe is that the datafile includes all Index options, both models and wargear. So you will find options that don't exist in the Codex.

 FEARtheMoose wrote:
Personally I would just get the Codex of the army you wish to play, get a copy main rule book and build your army using Battlescribe.

With those 3 resources you can get plenty of games in to learn the majority of the basics. When you have had some games and have gotten familiar with your army you will then start to notice perhaps odd wording or rules that in some situations don't clarify what you're actually allowed or not allowed to do. This is where the FAQ's come in, they tend to answer and correct these odd rules. [these are online for free and really once you have read them you will remember them, but print them out if you need]

For the chapter approved books these really only add a few new things in, like game modes and some finalised beta rules. I wouldn't worry to much about that until you have learnt the game really.

If your learning with a friend who is also starting out, that's great as it will matter less if your not 100% up to date on chapter approved, FAQ's etc. But if you just popping down to your local store to play 9/10 times the people you play with will help you learn and point out bits and bobs you may miss, so again, not to much bother if you don't have all 17 million books straight away!

Once you are well versed with your army [know most stats + unit rules of the top of your head] its likely you will not need to worry about buying the extra books like chapter approved because once you read a mates or something you will just commit the tiny small new bits that are relevant to your army to memory after reading.

So i dont have to get CSM version 2 codex like the poster above you said?

If you don't have any CSM codex, get the new one. You won't need the older one as well. If you already have the earlier CSM codex, well, there's some stuff missing from that now that is in the newer one.

Ok thanks Crispy. Im going to do some reading and stuff now to try figure it out.



Thanks so much Dakka participants.

Yeah i second what Crispy said =)

The list posted by BCB is semi-exaggerated so he can push his agenda about the number of documents needed to play 40k. If you're new and you want to play Black Legion the only things you really need are:

1. Rulebook
2. Codex: Chaos Space Marines version 2. This is an updated version of the original Codex that replaces it completely.
3. Codex: Chaos Daemons. This is just for the Great Unclean One rules
4. Chapter Approved 2018. This includes updated points costs for some units and is GW's annual 40k update, released in December each year.

Of the above, if you're just starting out and learning with friends Chapter Approved isn't even mandatory and if you use Battlescribe you probably don't need to buy the Daemons Codex just for a single unit and it will include the annual Chapter Approved points updates.

Eventually you'll probably need to refer to some FAQ documents for the rulebook or your Codices but for starting out you'll probably not need to bother with that. There are also 2 Vigilus campaign books that include rules for some armies that you might want to get too but they are not required at all.

You only need the rule book and the Chaos Astartes Codex V2 to play Black Legion.

If you want daemons on top you'd need the Chaos Daemons codex. That's 3 books total.

You don't need anything else until you've got some practice in and learned the game. Just don't enter any competitive tournaments until you have all the updated rules and costs.

Ok thanks so much every one, really greatful for your help!


Thanks

 Ishagu wrote:
You only need the rule book and the Chaos Astartes Codex V2 to play Black Legion.

If you want daemons on top you'd need the Chaos Daemons codex. That's 3 books total.

You don't need anything else until you've got some practice in and learned the game. Just don't enter any competitive tournaments until you have all the updated rules and costs.

This is sorta true but misleading. Unless you have a dedicated gaming group that doesn't care about FAQs and CA your going to need those books as well and not having a copy of the main rules is not a great idea if your trying to learn the game.

As for the supplements, yes you can technically live with out them but I've never liked the idea of not having the complete set of rules for any of my armies.

Is there a minimum for troop limit on transportation vehicle's?



Cheers.

 Stormatious wrote:
Is there a minimum for troop limit on transportation vehicle's?



Cheers.

Each transport has a transport capacity. Typically 10. You don't have to fill the transport - you can deploy a single model inside one.
You can also deploy all of your infantry inside transports if you so desire. Each unit you bring unlocks the use of a dedicated transport slot. Other transports like the Landraider are simply a heavy support option you can purchase for your army.

In your initial games you just need to explain to any opponent that you are still learning the game. You first 5 - 10 games should be learning games to get to grip with the rules. Only after you've started to grasp your army, list building and have a nice variety of models is it time to really tighten up your army by accounting for Chapter Approved adjustments, FAQs and all rules updated.

Ideally you need to find an opponent who teaches you in the first game, and it's also important to win a few matches as you learn. Also, if you lose a lot to begin with don't be put off, it takes a while to master the game and the finer points.

Minimum? No. You could just stick a single dude in a transport if you wanted.

Oh i see thank you. What about moving the vehicle, does this require 1 model to be a dedicated driver, and also what about the person who's manning the guns is he counted as a one of the ten troops onboard, or how does that part work?

Or is there automatically always a "driver" that is not included in the maximum troop capacity.


Thanks heaps!

No, the guys being transported never drive or gun.

Its assumed the tank has its own driver and gunners (although they dont have any stats themselves).

Oh ok, thank you!

All ready to go. Im going to be also using the data sheets and points from csm v1, but just for this first time. Ill worry about all the other stuff after .



Thanks so much every one.

Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Cheers mate!.

Another thing is need vs want.

The 10 publication list - I think it was 5 books, and 5 free online errata - is want. What you NEED depends somewhat on your models. If you have a Dark Imperium, Shadowspear, or Wake the Dead starter set, that'll give a few units for you, a few units for your mate, and a Sort-Of-Codex for those units. The Dark Imperium codex also gives you the main rule book AKA BRB (Big Rule Book) - as you want to do Chaos/Black Legion you'll want either Dark Imperium (which comes with Deathguard (Nurgle) chaos Marines, or Shadowspear which comes with Black Legion Daemonkin That's all you NEED - for those units - to get a first game or two in, and get your feet wet.

After that you'll WANT to get some more units, and make your own lists - for which you'll start adding more books and models, like the Codex Space Marine Codex and/or the Deathguard codex for your Nurgle marines, and errata.

 Elbows wrote:
Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

Please stop trying to ruin other people's hobby with your bizarre crusade. You've already tried it once in this very thread. Local people are the best to ask. They'll tell you how the game is actually played in the real world. This is more important than some purely theoretical approach to the game base don ultra-RAW interpretations. More importantly, they'll be the ones you'll be playing against so you're going to want to build up some kind of relationship with them anyway. In my experience, the vast, vast majority of gamers are friendly and enthusiastic and more than willing to help out new players. It's important you understand the rules yourself and don't rely too much on what other people say, but from a practical perspective, having someone show you how to play is often much easier than trying to learn yourself.

One final piece of advice: the You Make Da Call forum is great for players starting out who are looking for clarification about the rules. However, I'd strongly advise you to ignore any thread that goes beyond about 5 or 6 posts in that forum if you're new. Some people like to argue endlessly over the minutiae of the rules and that is about the least helpful thing a new player can read, IMO. If you don't understand somehting it's good to get into the habit of asking for someone (preferably one of the people you're playing with) to show you the rule text and how it applies in the game. That way you learn the actual rule and how it works in practice and you start to build up the experience to allow you to figure this stuff out for yourself.

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

BCB,

I can't even see what you're responses are, but simply put: stop trying to ruin others peoples' hobbies, particularly new comers. It's an exceptionally selfish and donkey-cave thing to do. You're not helping anyone.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

The part where you ignored the question about learning to play 40k for a first ever game. He didn't ask for a full tournament ruleset and list of appropriate FAQs. He wants to learn about the basics. Heck, you can play your first game with the basic rules in the model boxes in addition to the rulebook and nothing more.

Do you have some sort of problem? Are you some gatekeeper, neckbeard elitist? Learn the appropriate response to the appropriate question and context. You failed on all these accounts.

The best way to learn by far is with local players. You are wrong on this account also. Maybe you feel this way because no one likes playing with you in real life. That's too bad.

 Ishagu wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

The part where you ignored the question about learning to play 40k for a first ever game. He didn't ask for a full tournament ruleset and list of appropriate FAQs. He wants to learn about the basics.

Do you have some sort of problem? Are you some gatekeeper, neckbeard elitist? Learn the appropriate response to the appropriate question and context. You failed on all these accounts.

The best way to learn by far is with local players. You are wrong on this account to. Maybe you feel this way because no one likes playing with you in real life. That's too bad.

Being new to the game doesn't mean ignoring most of the rules.

 Stormatious wrote:
Can some one just tell me this, to play black legion, do i need a codex or the index or both ? or do i need also this 3rd book "chapter approved 2018"?

I gave him the correct answer as to what documents you need to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One. The fact GW makes it overly complicated is not my fault.

I am sorry that you seem to have had such an extreme reaction to me providing a factual and correct answer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
BCB,

I can't even see what you're responses are, but simply put: stop trying to ruin others peoples' hobbies, particularly new comers. It's an exceptionally selfish and donkey-cave thing to do. You're not helping anyone.

If you "can't even see what you're responses are" how do you know I am "trying to ruin others peoples' hobbies"? All I did was provide a factual and correct answer to a question that was asked. (Also, it's your, not you're).

Why are you still arguing? Multiple people have told you exactly why you're wrong. If you post again I will block you and be rid of you for good. Do you want to be a valuable member of the community or a poison who ruins the hobby for those around them?

 Ishagu wrote:
Why are you still arguing? Multiple people have told you exactly why you're wrong. If you post again I will block you and be rid of you for good. Do you want to be a valuable member of the community or a poison who ruins the hobby for those around them?

I am still arguing because you have not provided me with an answer as to where I was incorrect in my initial reply. Can you explain to me how providing a correct answer "ruins the hobby for those around them"? I am genuinely confused as to that assertion. I am saddened by your perceived need to block me. I would never block you, despite disagreeing with you.

Anyway, Stormatious I wish you the best of luck with your new Black Legion army!

New players shouldn't be told to buy 5 books and read through 5FAQs before they can play their first game. If this is new to you then I pity you. Obviously all of that comes later if they chose to invest their time into higher level play.

Now move on

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

If your local group plays the game one way, then your best chance of getting games and fitting in is to engage with them and see how they do things. It really doesn't matter if they use house rules, old versions, whatever, as long as everyone concerned is enjoying themselves. And being "objective" is utterly irrelevant if that's not how everyone else does it.

If it turns out they don't enjoy the same things you do, no harm done, you can move on. Perhaps some of them will be open to trying new things and would like to do it your way, or perhaps there's other groups you can talk to.

It's always the best way to get into a game. Find some gamers and play games.

OK, apologies to the OP for a minor thread derailment, but hopefully there's something useful in the mini-rant coming up.

BCB, you're not helping. No, I can't explain it to you because what we're dealing with here is the social aspect of the game. Not everything is strictly black and white and many, many things in life operate as shades of grey and require nuance and, in this case, social experience to understand. Your initial post in this thread was unhelpful and your subsequent posts have been similarly unhelpful, or in some cases outright misleading. If you can't understand why, you're either being wilfully obtuse or you are incapable of understanding the nuances of social interaction that this game is founded upon. Either way, no amount of explanation here will help to illuminate you.

I love this hobby. Even though 40k's current rules aren't the best. I love painting models, I love thinking about new lists and messing about with old ones, I love playing the game both as a mental exercise and a social experience. What I really love is seeing new players introduced to the game and that moment when they also "get it". Sometimes that moment is when they fall in love with a specific faction, or when they finish their first squad, or that first game where they feel they played well. Regardless, there's a moment when they get hooked and that's something that's genuinely rewarding to see.

So when someone comes along with behaviour that can, at best, be viewed as gatekeeping and at worst as acting like a toxic TFG, it rubs me the wrong way. Pushing your agenda on a brand new player is absolutely TFG behaviour in my view and potentially damaging to the hobby. We're not talking about some theoretical application of the rules here, but the real-world experience of the game. Maybe if you actually played face-to-face with actual people you'd understand that better.

To the OP, I hope you have fun playing this game. It's one of the most rewarding hobbies I've ever been involved with and is fantastic as an artistic, mental and social pursuit. Find some local guys willing to show you the rules and don't be afraid to ask questions - everyone was new once and hopefully in no time at all it will be you helping other people get involved in the hobby.

Hey Storm,

If you've got the Rulebook, Codex, and Battlescribe, you're mostly good to go.

The FAQ and Errata typically just clarify rules interactions. If you aren't having a problem with the rules, you don't need them.

Chapter Approved and such also adjust points, and sometimes rules for units (Such as Commissars). While it does change the game, for fundamental rules-learning purposes, not very important.

Consider learning 40k to learning a sport. There are a lot of rules that cover things that really rarely happen. Did you know baseball has rules for hitting a bird with a pitch? I don't know what they are, but I can still play baseball.

That's kind of what 40k is like. You don't necessarily need to have all the rules. You don't specifically NEED to follow them. It's a game with you and your opponent. When you're learning, just do as they do. If you later find out it's wrong, you can fix it going forwards.

The most important part is having fun, learning the basics, and getting a feel for the game.

Thanks every one, just finished the game. I vs'd Dark Angels, and we proxyd GUO as a daemon prince. We both agreed on a draw. But it wasnt really a proper game as it was more of them teaching me the whole time, so im pretty sure he didn't even try at all.


Basicly the person was a legend, and was telling / teaching me what dice to roll and all that sort of stuff pretty much the whole entire time, so was a great experience and im very happy with every thing.


Thanks dakka, really greatful for your kindness and patience and helpfulness. And thank you particularly moderator Intgaer and all mods ( and all dakka participants ) for helping me alot with all of my annoying private message questions.


Thank you!!

Awesome, glad you had a good time!

Thanks Elbow!



More questions


If some thing on a data sheet says this model has 5+ invulnerable save, does that mean any rolls that an attacker does when rolling for wounds mean that any rolls over 5+ does nothing to the enemy?'



Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And does a intercessor on page 10 of the core rules from GW website die because he has 1 wound on the datasheet from when they wrote that rule book?



Thanks

A model that has an invulnerable save may take this save or a normal armour save. The difference is that you ignore the armour modifier, and simply roll your dice. You can take one save or the other, but not both (so obviously you choose whichever one is providing a better save against the weapon you're being targeted with).

A Space Marine Terminator, for instance has a 2+ normal save, and a 5+ invulnerable. Against a bolt gun (no armour modifier) you'd choose the 2+ save because it's going to protect you. However, if attacked with a meltagun (-4 armour modifier) you'd use the 5+ invulnerable save...because your 2+ normal save would become a 6+ save against it.

 Stormatious wrote:
Thanks Elbow!



More questions


If some thing on a data sheet says this model has 5+ invulnerable save, does that mean any rolls that an attacker does when rolling for wounds mean that any rolls over 5+ does nothing to the enemy?'



Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And does a intercessor on page 10 of the core rules from GW website die because he has 1 wound on the datasheet from when they wrote that rule book?



Thanks

Invulnerable saves are rolled for like/instead of Armor saves. Which core rules are you looking at? The flipout card, the hard cover big rule book, or the ebook from itunes etc. ? That's going to make it easier for people to both point you to the page number you want, and find the page number you ask a question about. As you mentioned page 10, I'm guessing you're looking at the flip and fold reference sheet, not one of the rulebooks? If you have the big hardcover or ebook of the rules, Invulnerable saves are on page 255.

I think you're talking about the Example Turn for the intercessors? Assuming so - They have two wounds in the example, but not all attacks were doing even numbers of wounds, the Intercesor that died in the shooting phase had lost one of their two wounds in the psychic phase. 3 wounds were done in the Psychic phase which killed one intercessor and wounded another once, leaving them with one wound. After that another plague marine threw a grenade which did three wounds to one Intercessor.

This isn't pointed out in the example turn, but this was done for a reason. A bolter does one damage, and there was a marine with one wound remaining, if you shoot the bolters first, you could get rid of the injured Intercessor first, so your multi-wound grenade would kill a whole intercessor - as it's one attack more wounds than the target model has are ignored/lost. This is something you'll want to remember for order of operations.

Its similar to the 4 gallon riddle from Die Hard -
You have two buckets. One holds exactly five gallons and the other three gallons. How can you measure exactly four gallons of water into the five gallon bucket?

Assume you have an unlimited supply of water and that there are no measurement markings of any kind on the buckets.

Fill up the 3 gallon and pour it in the 5 gallon. Then fill up the 3 gallon AGAIN and pour in the 5 gallon until there is 1 gallon left in the 3 gallon. Then, dump out the 5 gallon completely. Then fill the 5 gallon with the one gallon leftover in the 3 gallon. Then fill up the 3 gallon one last time and pour it in the 5 gallon

You want to time your weapon choices to get the as many wounds out of them as possible - to not lose any you could have gotten on wounded models.

Ooooh.



I see now .


Big thanks specifically to - Breton / Elbows / Intgaer / Greatbigtree / BaconCatBug / Slipspace / AndrewGpaul / Ishagu / Ratius / Slipspace / Cripsy78 / FearTheMoose / Alextroy / Gangland / Tarkinlarson / ccs / Skinnereal / QueenAnnesrevenge / Peregrine / Stomonu / Excommunications / Tazlivar / TyranidHorde / Argive and ALL DakkaDakka users and moderators and owners of website.

Cheers.

 Stormatious wrote:
Thanks every one, just finished the game. I vs'd Dark Angels, and we proxyd GUO as a daemon prince. We both agreed on a draw. But it wasnt really a proper game as it was more of them teaching me the whole time, so im pretty sure he didn't even try at all.


Basicly the person was a legend, and was telling / teaching me what dice to roll and all that sort of stuff pretty much the whole entire time, so was a great experience and im very happy with every thing.


Thanks dakka, really greatful for your kindness and patience and helpfulness. And thank you particularly moderator Intgaer and all mods ( and all dakka participants ) for helping me alot with all of my annoying private message questions.


Thank you!!

And thats what its all about!! Playing a fun game and learning and having a conversation.

Glad you enjoyed it. Now its a case of learning one game at a time. (Then coming up with bonkers list with units you like and put the hours in painting!). You guo lools dope btw!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

Your advice is bad because it ignores the most common type of 40k, playing against local players or with a small group of friends. You act like 40k is played in some kind of weird vacuum were local rules or expectations are not a thing.

I should remember and know this but i dont.


You can only shoot at the closest model within the unit you are targeting? Because i thought that was irrelevent since the other person allocates where the wounds go...

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well im watching a tutorial and this part has me confused.

 Stormatious wrote:
I should remember and know this but i dont.


You can only shoot at the closest model within the unit you are targeting? Because i thought that was irrelevent since the other person allocates where the wounds go...

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well im watching a tutorial and this part has me confused.

You measure ranges between the closest points between two models. As long as at least a single model of the target unit is in range you can shoot at it. For example if you shoot a Heavy Bolter (Heavy 3, 36" range) at a unit of 10 models, one of which is 35" away and nine are 37" away, you can still shoot the heavy bolter and potentially kill three models.

As a new player, I found it confusing why a model can be killed when you're shooting at a different one. It helps to think of it as an abstraction of combat - a boiled down simpllification of what actually happened - and not literal combat between the shooter and the target.

Wait i'm confused still ahahaha. ( sorry)


So i am right that the person can allocate the wounds to what ever model he wants in the unit i am shooting?

You are correct, yes. Feel free to rationalize this however you want. My prefered way is that the unit reorganizes itself as it loses members, such that if a model in the front is "killed" the others move in to close the gap (in the case of a player removing models from the back of the unit). If that makes sense.

Oh god i love hearing "yes" when i ask questions. Ahahahaha.


Thank you so much mate!

 Stormatious wrote:
Wait i'm confused still ahahaha. ( sorry)


So i am right that the person can allocate the wounds to what ever model he wants in the unit i am shooting?

Yep that's correct.
Your attacks target a unit, not a model inside a unit. The player who controls a unit decides which models to remove when the unit takes damage.

EDIT: Ah already answered. The perils of answering a fast moving thread while being distracted with other tasks

Awesome!, thanks, Arson Fire!

So are there any "special" places where you fiind abilitys that models have other then the data sheets?. Or can i reply on data sheets to tell me all that and shouldn't worry about some thing on some book some wherE?

Thanks

 Stormatious wrote:
So are there any "special" places where you fiind abilitys that models have other then the data sheets?. Or can i reply on data sheets to tell me all that and shouldn't worry about some thing on some book some wherE?

Thanks

8th edition (at least initially) went with completely bespoke rules. All the rules for a unit are found on their datasheet, or at worst point you to the page in the Codex where the rule is found (e.g. "And They Shall Know No Fear (pg 131)"). However this has become slightly less true over time as GW don't hire good rules writers, so we now have psudo-USRs in the form of FLY and AIRCRAFT in the BRB errata.

For me page 131 is Bloodletters datasheet lol, i guess im on the wrong book.

So are you saying all the rules for a unit were found "intitially" on the datasheet, or are you talking about right at the moment?

 Stormatious wrote:
For me page 131 is Bloodletters datasheet lol, i guess im on the wrong book.

So are you saying all the rules for a unit were found "intitially" on the datasheet, or are you talking about right at the moment?

Sorry I gave that as a generic example. All the rules for a unit are found on the datasheet in their entirety or as a reference to somewhere else in the codex. The only "universal" special rules are the ones covering FLY and AIRCRAFT in the BRB.

My comment about "initially" is that GW stated that all the rules were going to be bespoke and on the datasheet, but then added in a clunky AIRCRAFT rule instead of sticking to their (flawed) design philosophy and putting the AIRCRAFT keyword and rules on all the datasheets via errata.

You mean the data sheet might reference some thing else in the codex?

 Stormatious wrote:
You mean the data sheet might reference some thing else in the codex?

Yes. For example, Bloodthirsters have the rule "Daemonic Ritual (pg 119)". So, they don't technically have all their rules on their datasheet in full, but do have a rule telling you that it's spelled out in its entirety somewhere else in the codex.

Nice, thanks, Bacon Cat Bug.

I don't think you get stuff like chapter tactics (or equivalent) on the data sheet, so that needs to be remembered.

Where in the rules does it explain that units in detachments of battleforged armies have to be from the same codex? because i can only see where it says they only have to share atleast 1 faction keyword ( chaos for e.g )

 Stormatious wrote:
Where in the rules does it explain that units in detachments of battleforged armies have to be from the same codex? because i can only see where it says they only have to share atleast 1 faction keyword ( chaos for e.g )

Nowhere, because that isn't a rule.

Colloquial Definitions:
Internal Keyword: The keyword shared by units inside a specific detachment.
External Keyword: The keyword shared by all units in the army.

By default, all units inside a detachment in a Battle-forged army must share a common Internal Keyword. There is no need for all detachments to share an External Keyword.

In Matched Play, this is further restricted that said Internal Keyword cannot be CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI, YNNARI or TYRANIDS and that all detachments must also share an External Keyword (which can be CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI, YNNARI or TYRANIDS).

Example 1: In matched play you can take a detachment of Black Legion, a detachment of World Eaters and a detachment of Daemons, because the detachments are BLACK LEGION, WORLD EATERS and DAEMON, and all detachments have the CHAOS keyword. You can also theoretically take a mixed detachment of Black Legion and World Eaters if you really wanted, as they share the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword, but you'll lose both detachment benefits so there is zero real reason to ever do so.

Example 2: You cannot take a Patrol of Orks and a Patrol of Necrons in the same Matched Play army because the two detachments do not share a keyword, despite the detachments themselves having valid Internal Keywords.

So the units within the detachment have to be the same legion, but detachments it self ave to be the same faction ( chaos etc )?

Crispy78 wrote:
I don't think you get stuff like chapter tactics (or equivalent) on the data sheet, so that needs to be remembered.

most of the special rules are pop ups on the ebook codex, though I think the chapter tactic younstill have to hunt for.

Breton wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
I don't think you get stuff like chapter tactics (or equivalent) on the data sheet, so that needs to be remembered.

most of the special rules are pop ups on the ebook codex, though I think the chapter tactic younstill have to hunt for.

I dont care about tactics at the moment really.


Thanks for your help though!

It's special rules depending on which faction within a codex you take, e.g. World Eater CSMs getting Butchers Nails and getting +1A after charging. Not actual tactics as such.

 Stormatious wrote:
So the units within the detachment have to be the same legion, but detachments it self ave to be the same faction ( chaos etc )?

Pretty much, yeah.

@ Storm: That is correct.

MODELS within a DETACHMENT must share a faction keyword that is NOT Chaos, Imperium, Tyranid, Aeldari (I think...). This prevents a detachment from, say, taking the cheap Daemons as troops in a Battalion being led by a CSM lord.

LEGION TACTICS require that all MODELS within a DETACHMENT share the same Legion Tactic.

An ARMY must share a common keyword between all DETACHMENTS. This keyword CAN be Chaos, Imperium, Tyranids, Aeldari, Etc. Different DETACHMENTS within the ARMY may have different LEGION TACTICS without problem, so long as the rules above are followed.

Hmmmm But black legion i thought basicly worshipped all chaos gods so i dont get why this is like this. I mean i can have rubric marines in BL but they are 1k sons....


Im slightly confused.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sort of get it, but yeah im confused a bit. But not any ones here's fault.

Thanks!!!!

The Black Legion is a salad. You can have all kinds of different things from the Chaos codex in it, but it would still be a salad. The World Eaters, Thousand Sons, etc are the ingredients of that salad, you can eat them separately if you want to, or you can mix them together.

Thais confused me even more to be honest.

Hi Storm,

I'm not sure about the Chaos Marine Codex, specifically. I play Imperials. Also, try to keep "Fluff" and "Rules" separate as it will drive you crazy.

The Black Legion (FLUFF) is undivided, meaning they cut deals / worship all elements of Chaos. Their units may take marks from any of the Deities. A Berzerker, on the other Hand, must take the mark of Khorne, and can NOT take another mark.

The rules for Black Legion (Trait) will let them do something that other legions don't. Again, not sure of the effect but let's say they get the "Imperium Sucks" rule, whereas Iron Warriors get "Bionics" and Alpha Legions gets "Surprise, Suckas!". So in a BL detachment, all models must take the "Imperium Sucks" rule. but they can still take Marks of Khorne, or Tzeentch, or Nurgle, or Slaanesh.

You could then take a 1000 Sons Detachment. Again, I don't know the specifics but they'd all get the "We're ghoooosts! Spoooky!" rule. Because they're a God-Specific legion, they can only (maybe must?) take the Mark of Tzeentch.

You could then take a Daemon Detachment. I don't know if they have "legion traits" for them or not, but they probably have some kind of rule that you benefit from if you stick to certain units.

So long as each is a valid (Battleforged) detachment, you could take a BL Detachment, with models with different Marks of Chaos and all would benefit from "Imperium Sucks.". You could take a 1000 Sons and they'd all benefit from "We're Ghooosts! Spooky!" Rules. They could ONLY have MoTz though, because they're a God-Specific Legion. Lastly, you could take a Daemon detachment. You can probably mix and match gods because Daemons are weird.

This is battleforged in its entirety, because each detachment shares the "Chaos" keyword.


** To cut to the chase, post a list you think is battleforged, and we can let you know if it works or not, and if it doesn't, how to make it work. **

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

Your advice is bad because it ignores the most common type of 40k, playing against local players or with a small group of friends. You act like 40k is played in some kind of weird vacuum were local rules or expectations are not a thing.

Problem is that is how he plays 40k (on Discord apparently). This is not a normal way to play in any way, shape or form and coupled with his holier than thou always “correct” rulings make for a lovely toxic sludge.

40k requires social interaction. Squawking at people over the internet on the correct way to play as if GW have given you a personal edict to hand down just makes people think you’re a TFG and no help whatsoever.

 Stormatious wrote:
Hmmmm But black legion i thought basicly worshipped all chaos gods so i dont get why this is like this. I mean i can have rubric marines in BL but they are 1k sons....


Im slightly confused.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sort of get it, but yeah im confused a bit. But not any ones here's fault.

Thanks!!!!

PST: look at the keywords, theres this <Legion> thingy there right?

You fit in the keyword to get the trait right?

Some Legions like EC or WE are god specific so they must always be Khorne or Slaanesh, so they lock out other god specific units.

BL is not god specific, so unde the plague marine entry f.e. you find the <Legion> tag and you can freely insert BL in there however their mark is given.

Basically all non monogod subfactions can field cultmarines relatively freely (Ro3 still applies) mostly due to most cultmarines or processes to create them beeing accessible knowledge for many warbands and especially for bigger legions.
KNowledge for Berzerkers, most chirugeons that know how serve the BL or are freelancers (khornate Freelancers) Rubrics mercs, Noise marines, easily enough replicable, Plague marine also a possibility.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Hi Storm,

I'm not sure about the Chaos Marine Codex, specifically. I play Imperials. Also, try to keep "Fluff" and "Rules" separate as it will drive you crazy.

The Black Legion (FLUFF) is undivided, meaning they cut deals / worship all elements of Chaos. Their units may take marks from any of the Deities. A Berzerker, on the other Hand, must take the mark of Khorne, and can NOT take another mark.

The rules for Black Legion (Trait) will let them do something that other legions don't. Again, not sure of the effect but let's say they get the "Imperium Sucks" rule, whereas Iron Warriors get "Bionics" and Alpha Legions gets "Surprise, Suckas!". So in a BL detachment, all models must take the "Imperium Sucks" rule. but they can still take Marks of Khorne, or Tzeentch, or Nurgle, or Slaanesh.

You could then take a 1000 Sons Detachment. Again, I don't know the specifics but they'd all get the "We're ghoooosts! Spoooky!" rule. Because they're a God-Specific legion, they can only (maybe must?) take the Mark of Tzeentch.

You could then take a Daemon Detachment. I don't know if they have "legion traits" for them or not, but they probably have some kind of rule that you benefit from if you stick to certain units.

So long as each is a valid (Battleforged) detachment, you could take a BL Detachment, with models with different Marks of Chaos and all would benefit from "Imperium Sucks.". You could take a 1000 Sons and they'd all benefit from "We're Ghooosts! Spooky!" Rules. They could ONLY have MoTz though, because they're a God-Specific Legion. Lastly, you could take a Daemon detachment. You can probably mix and match gods because Daemons are weird.

This is battleforged in its entirety, because each detachment shares the "Chaos" keyword.


** To cut to the chase, post a list you think is battleforged, and we can let you know if it works or not, and if it doesn't, how to make it work. **

Ok thank you so much, ill get back to you with a army in this thread shortly to cut to the chase.

no- 5-20 is correct , for matched play look at the pts behind the place. Also the PL listing lists options in price correlation to powerlevel. So Max 20 per unit.

Oh yeah i get it.

Thanks homie.

No worries

This is rough rough rough, but i just quickly did this to show you that i know what your saying now. This is not a proper list or any thing like that or even written properly..

And i guess i would take some things off here and there to make it square 2k points. I didn't even want to press submit on this post.





Patrol Detatchment #1 -

Mark - Mark of Tzeentch ( what ever i want )
Trait - Black crusade
Hq - Abaddon
Transport - x2 rhinos
Troops -x3 csm units 10 csm each unit
Flyer -x2 heldrakes
1046 total points
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrol Deatchment #2

Trait - What ever i want lol

x1HQ -- Bloodmaster
x1GUO -
x90Troops 3 units - Bloodletters

1011 total points

Or i could go 1k sons detachment instead of daemons etc etc etc, and they would have the 1k sons trait and mark. etc etc..

Yeah, pretty much.

The Mark is applied at the individual unit level though, not the detachment - so you could, for instance, have one CSM unit in Patrol #1 with Mark Of Khorne, one with Mark Of Tzeentch, etc. Annoyingly though the Marks by themselves don't do anything any more. In 6th / 7th they cost points but gave benefits - I think Mark Of Khorne for instance was +1A?

This varies depending on what Legion you've selected. Black Legion is open to all Marks, whereas, say, World Eaters requires all units to have Mark Of Khorne. This is what then restricts you, as you then wouldn't be allowed to field something like Noise Marines as they must have Mark Of Slaanesh.

So i can have 1 patrol of 4 csm units having 4 different marks?

You need to look at your detachment types in the rules.

A patrol detachment can only have a maximum of 3 x troop units. You could have each of those 3 units with a different mark if you wanted - unless you'd specified a Legion that restricts it.

In practice I don't really know what good that would do though...

Yeah, in general, you’re usually best to focus on a pair of Battalions if you want lots of troops. Lots of command points to play with.


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Yeah, in general, you’re usually best to focus on a pair of Battalions if you want lots of troops. Lots of command points to play with.

True, thanks Tree And Cripsy and Not Online And Bacon.