Why take part in Veganuary? Well, why not?
There are so many reasons people decide to try vegan.
For most, a love of animals is the catalyst. Some people want to feel better about themselves and the impact they make on the world. Others would like to set themselves a challenge, and many combine Veganuary with their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ and see trying vegan as the healthiest start to the year. Whatever your reason, we’re here to support you.
So try vegan for a month and discover a whole new world of taste and flavour. We guarantee that, by the end of the month, you’ll feel fantastic!
No. I'm not that high on animal rights that I want to give up eating meat, and going vegan for the environment, while commendable, is treating a symptom, not the disease.
None for me. I already have a chest freezer full of meats.
We raise chickens, goats, rabbits and pigs so no chance I'll ever do the vegan thing. Not unless it's forced on me due to economics.
I have no problem with people choosing to give up meat or anything else for what ever reason they decide on.
Which ironically makes meat more humane if thats true. Processed animals get rendered senseless before they are killed and they're definitely dead by the time we're eating them, and so incapable of continuing to feel pain. Most plants are consumed while still very much alive.
Anyway, humans are carnivores too. If its evil to eat animals, than every single carnivore is also evil. At least humans have the decency to kill the animals we eat quickly with a minimal amount of suffering, even in meat packing plants animals are stunned to minimize pain. As opposed to things like Wolves who tear their prey apart and will even begin eating it before its completely dead. Just watch any old National Geographic wildlife special, getting eaten by lions or wolves is about the worst way to go. The thousands of chickens, cows, pigs, etc... who humans eat every day are relatively lucky as far as the animal kingdom is concerned. They don't live the stressful live of having to scrounge for food while constantly jumping at every shadow, only to have their life end with their throat crushed by some predator's jaws/get mauled or even worse die of starvation/disease.
Farm raised animals are safe, given all the food they need, and a quick and painless death. Compared to a wild animal, that is heavenly.
Why take part in Veganuary? Well, why not?
There are so many reasons people decide to try vegan.
For most, a love of animals is the catalyst. Some people want to feel better about themselves and the impact they make on the world. Others would like to set themselves a challenge, and many combine Veganuary with their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ and see trying vegan as the healthiest start to the year. Whatever your reason, we’re here to support you.
So try vegan for a month and discover a whole new world of taste and flavour. We guarantee that, by the end of the month, you’ll feel fantastic!
We’ve flirted with the idea. At least, we try to minimize the amount of meat we eat. Usually.
Anyway, is there some secret to preparing Jackfruit? We’ve tried it a couple of times, but the amount of time and effort it takes to prepare one is staggering compared to the lackluster end result. It definitely failed to live up to the hype. I’d love to have a vegan alternative to meat that is tasty or convenient, and jackfruit is neither.
Except a diet that will cost you extra each month, and makes picking a restaurant with friends and family that much more onerous and complicated...
And for people cooking for family, its great make the effort and then someone just refuses to eat because reasons. (And that can go either way, with a vegan cooking for people who expect food they enjoy, or a vegan flipping their plate because they've been tainted with 'meat juice.') Great fun for everyone else who just wants to get on with the meal.
Bacon isn't a character trait.
It isn't a strawman either.
You made your pitch. You don't need to keep proselytizing.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:We’ve flirted with the idea. At least, we try to minimize the amount of meat we eat. Usually.
Anyway, is there some secret to preparing Jackfruit? We’ve tried it a couple of times, but the amount of time and effort it takes to prepare one is staggering compared to the lackluster end result. It definitely failed to live up to the hype. I’d love to have a vegan alternative to meat that is tasty or convenient, and jackfruit is neither.
I've only ever used the canned jackfruit in brine, you just have to rinse it and cut the core out.
Banana blossoms and kelp flakes make for a crazy convincing fish substitute.
Voss wrote:
Except a diet that will cost you extra each month, and makes picking a restaurant with friends and family that much more onerous and complicated...
False.
My grocery bill is less than $150 a month. I am 6'4. My weight is stable.
Vegan options are everywhere.
Voss wrote:
You made your pitch. You don't need to keep proselytizing.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to see if those are available at my local Ralph’s. Is the processed jackfruit the meat kind or the bubblegum kind, ripe or unripe?
Would you be so kind as to describe some of the easier and/or cheaper vegan meals one can make with fairly common ingredients? I’d like to give some a try.
As someone who has a very limited diet for medical reasons, I don't get why people voluntarily restrict what they eat for non-medical reasons.
Saying that, I understood a friend who was vegetarian because she didn't like the taste or texture of meat and used it as a useful label to ensure she got food she'd like. I respect the vegans who make a life choice and stick with it, are happy to inform people about it, don't look down on others for not following it, and don't try to involve people who aren't already considering it. I don't understand vegans who don't carry it into the rest of their life. If I've learnt anything from people I've known who are vegan, it's that there is SO MUCH more to veganism than just not eating animal products. It's a lifestyle choice; it's not a fad diet for a month.
The main thing that annoys me (about any fashion diet - which getting people who aren't into veganism to do it for a month ultimately is) is that there are so many 'alternative' diets that means my medical needs aren't taken seriously when I say I can't eat something. It means I've had problems in the past with people thinking foods I avoid because my body's reaction would send me to A&E is a choice, means I'm being awkward for the sake of it, or following a fad. I've had instances of being given things I can't eat because it was thought I was 'just being picky'. It's so fun when people don't cater to my needs because they think I'm just on a diet or don't want animals to be sad and I end up throwing up, with abdominal cramps, or being covered in hives and struggling to breathe.
It's so awkward any time I try to eat out, as I have to look up menus and contact venues beforehand to ensure they can cater to me, and I feel awful for making them do extra work, then worry they're going to include things anyway/spit in it for being awkward. I avoid eating out whenever I can. I stopped letting friends and family cook for me a while ago, because of finding some cooked one thing for me and something different for themselves/other guests. I boggle that people intentionally choose this because it's a thing of embarrassment, anxiety, and stress for me.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to see if those are available at my local Ralph’s. Is the processed jackfruit the meat kind or the bubblegum kind, ripe or unripe?
Would you be so kind as to describe some of the easier and/or cheaper vegan meals one can make with fairly common ingredients? I’d like to give some a try.
My go-to is dried beans. Get yourself a pressure cooker and rehydrate beans. You can make burgers, curry, chili, pasta, wraps, salads...
Here's a link to 25 "budget" recipes from Auntie Beeb.
A recent tactic used by the Vegan community is that it is "good for the environment". It's not.
Something that is, are so-called "old growth forests".
Just a quick search shows that the most Vegan country in the world, India, only has 15,000 acres. By comparison, the Adirondack Mountains in New York have over 150,000 acres. New York has a large Dairy industry.
Vegetable and fruit farming require similar growing conditions to Forests.
Here in the U.S., beef cattle are raised in places that are not suited for other types of farming.
IF other countries went full Vegetarian/vegan, the required additional growing land will not come from the ranchers. It will come from the forests.
Additionally, Humans are omnivores. They evolved (or were created) to absorb calories from a fairly large variety of sources. Humans can glean their caloric requirements from more sources than even pigs, who have the most varied diet among animals.
As for the OP, I find a Vegan diet to be way too carb heavy for me. Not that I mind carbs, but to get the nutrients I personally require, and on my Doctor's recommendations, I cannot survive on the strict Vegan diet.
helgrenze wrote: A recent tactic used by the Vegan community is that it is "good for the environment". It's not.
Something that is, are so-called "old growth forests".
Just a quick search shows that the most Vegan country in the world, India, only has 15,000 acres. By comparison, the Adirondack Mountains in New York have over 150,000 acres. New York has a large Dairy industry.
Vegetable and fruit farming require similar growing conditions to Forests.
Here in the U.S., beef cattle are raised in places that are not suited for other types of farming.
IF other countries went full Vegetarian/vegan, the required additional growing land will not come from the ranchers. It will come from the forests.
Additionally, Humans are omnivores. They evolved (or were created) to absorb calories from a fairly large variety of sources. Humans can glean their caloric requirements from more sources than even pigs, who have the most varied diet among animals.
As for the OP, I find a Vegan diet to be way too carb heavy for me. Not that I mind carbs, but to get the nutrients I personally require, and on my Doctor's recommendations, I cannot survive on the strict Vegan diet.
Absolute twaddle.
The Earth already produces more than enough food for the population.
Plant ag. uses less land and less resources to produce more food than animal ag..
"Based on these numbers, the report concludes that “plant-based agriculture grows 512% more pounds of food than animal-based agriculture on 69% of the mass of land that animal-based agriculture uses.”
You're ignoring the fact that not all land is the same. Most grazing land is utterly useless for anything other than grazing due to either poor soil or the vertical nature of the terrain. You could never run a combine up the 20-30 degree slopes that makes up a huge chunk of the land that grass fed cattle are raised on in CA for example.
You're also ignoring that not all food is the same. Even a small amount of meat is vital for proper nutrition because of the readily available protein and amino acids that you simply cannot get from plants in an efficient manner.
You are correct in that we have plenty of arable land and can produce more food than the world needs. This doesn't help your point though, since it clearly means we have the breathing room for more resource intensive food like meat.
You obviously haven't read either of the things linked and you're repeating myths that have roundly and solidly debunked, but you wanna yell about ignoring things.
Read the links provided. Who knows what you might learn by trying it out for a month?
I'm Chinese, so stuff like Char Siu, Roast Pork and meat in general is so ingrained into our food culture that going vegan would effectively be like rejecting my identity. We eat everything, even dogs (though I personally don't)! Also, the food cycle exists for a reason and I don't see a moral reason for not eating meat, as long as its done somewhat responsibly. Just like it would be weird to impose an all meat diet for everyoen, I feel like going vegan has too many drawbacks to consider it a viable option for myself.
You obviously haven't read either of the things linked and you're repeating myths that have roundly and solidly debunked, but you wanna yell about ignoring things.
Read the links provided. Who knows what you might learn by trying it out for a month?
Neither of the not-at-all-biased articles off those links addresses grey templar's and helgrenze's point.
And the point isn't which of the two uses more land, but what type of land is needed.
Case in point, the accelerated destruction of rainforest in for example Brasil to grow soy for the increase in demand due to veganism and health fads in the West.
One month is a significant amount of time and eating vegan correctly means adopting a diet that must be very balanced. Proteines are absolutely needed for out body and just eating vegatbles and fruits for a month isn't healty at all.
If anyone wants to try vegan for a longer period than a couple of days please contact a nutritionist.
Be also careful on those sponsored vegan products you can buy at supermarkets, most of them are quite the opposite of healthy food.
Like, why do people feel so attacked by someone suggesting "hey, try out this thing if you want?", like, surely we can all agree that the current industrial consumption/production of meat is unhealthy and ecologically damaging, and that cutting back is probably not an awful idea?
This whole thread is a bit of a sad dog-pilling on someone who has made an otherwise inoffensive suggestion that might interest some people, and it's really only going to get worse from here on out by the looks of things.
All of you people ranting about "types of land" are trying to justify cattle farming in climates that are (nearly entirely) exclusively american, where yes, cattle farming does kind of make sense...
...provided you ignore farming insects for the same nutrition? WAAAAAY more space-efficient, and much better for the environment. Additionally, why does everyone advocating for that tired "oh, but vegan diets require land to grow crops too, so nerr-nerr, you're just as bad as us" try to gloss over how livestock also requires a VERY substantial amount of land in order to grow feed?
Nutritional science has progressed to the point that industrial farming as it exists today is sustained by our demand for readily-available, cheap meat. It usually comes to us processed to bejesus, and is sold (and taxed, might I add) by people who are really mostly only concerned with bottom lines and profit margins. There certainly are ways to more ethically consume meat, with a reduced environmental impact, but I can nearly guarantee that none of your local supermarkets sell it. Because again, money.
In a well-developed country, there's really only 1 reason to be eating traditional meat products that are a result of industrial farming.
"Because I like it and it tastes good, and it's convenient."
This isn't really a very compelling argument. But like, it's your argument. It's also mine, before I get accused of being a vegan-totallitarian pinko limpwrist communist soyboy whatever.
Excommunicatus has obviously started this thread with some pretty benevolent intentions. Some people might want to try being vegan for the typical environmental/animal-rights reasons. Or they might want to try changing up their diet as part of a health kick, to try new styles of cooking, or to get some experience of a dietary fad that has gained traction over the last few years, and maybe get a broader opinion of it, beyond, I dunno, say, ranting at strangers on a message board for little plastic spacemen?
Serious me believes we do need to adjust our diet. We need to eat slightly less meat, much less carbs, and more vegetables. This needs to happen from a base level though, and would require monumental change in soceity.
What I don't believe is that we should all go vegan, that's just silly.
Which ironically makes meat more humane if thats true. Processed animals get rendered senseless before they are killed and they're definitely dead by the time we're eating them, and so incapable of continuing to feel pain. Most plants are consumed while still very much alive.
Anyway, humans are carnivores too. If its evil to eat animals, than every single carnivore is also evil. At least humans have the decency to kill the animals we eat quickly with a minimal amount of suffering, even in meat packing plants animals are stunned to minimize pain. As opposed to things like Wolves who tear their prey apart and will even begin eating it before its completely dead. Just watch any old National Geographic wildlife special, getting eaten by lions or wolves is about the worst way to go. The thousands of chickens, cows, pigs, etc... who humans eat every day are relatively lucky as far as the animal kingdom is concerned. They don't live the stressful live of having to scrounge for food while constantly jumping at every shadow, only to have their life end with their throat crushed by some predator's jaws/get mauled or even worse die of starvation/disease.
Farm raised animals are safe, given all the food they need, and a quick and painless death. Compared to a wild animal, that is heavenly.
Humans are not carnivores. If we were, we would be just about the worst carnivores nature has ever come up with. We can barely digest raw meat at all with our digestive tract.
I'm thinking about trying it this year, just as an experiment. At the very least, I'm going vegetarian and not going for any meals that are strictly dairy-based (like, cheese or egg focused). I'm definitely not going to be scanning every package in the grocery store and looking for trace amounts of egg or milk, because that extra layer of effort and disappointment is what has generally kept me from trying veganism seriously thusfar. "Oh this packaged salad looks yummy - gak, dressing has dairy in it"
I've found that in my journey of being raised in a profoundly obese and unhealthy american family and slowly learning how to be a functioning healthy adult, that if I go hard on something for about a month, I retain some of it when I naturally lose interest later and I'm able to establish a healthy habit. I stand about half the time now at my work after a month of 8-hour standing, I do cardio any time I want to play video games on my consoles after my "I'm only allowed to play this nintendo switch I got if I'm on the exercise bike" policy even though I'm not going an hour and a half every day anymore, and I still use the weightlifting gym at work 3-4 days a week even though I'm no longer coming in at 5AM to lift for an hour every workday.
So I'll give it a shot. But I'll proabably ditch it if i find most of the things I like to eat are just fried.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to see if those are available at my local Ralph’s. Is the processed jackfruit the meat kind or the bubblegum kind, ripe or unripe?
Would you be so kind as to describe some of the easier and/or cheaper vegan meals one can make with fairly common ingredients? I’d like to give some a try.
My go-to is dried beans. Get yourself a pressure cooker and rehydrate beans. You can make burgers, curry, chili, pasta, wraps, salads...
Here's a link to 25 "budget" recipes from Auntie Beeb.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: We can't digest raw meat because we've been cooking it so long, that's the same reason we don't have the huge caveman Jaws or teeth anymore
Says You!
Know multiple vegetarians and vegans through Genghis Connie. Hearing the tales of one of her friends trying to find food in a diner in West Texas was hilarious. Usually she brings food with her on trips but ran out. The tale of finding a vegetarians soup...delicious!
queen_annes_revenge wrote: We can't digest raw meat because we've been cooking it so long, that's the same reason we don't have the huge caveman Jaws or teeth anymore
And that means you stop being a.....
Put it this way: Is a panda a carnivore? Those things are fething bears. They've still got the bear jaws and the bear teeth. They have direct ancestral cousins in Polar Bears who are, in fact, still 100% meat-eating carnivores. They are a HELL of a lot closer to it than humans are.
As a person who eats and enjoys meat, the anti-vegan "but it's evolution" argument holds zero water. Humans evolved to be able to eat some meat, sure, there's an evolutionary advantage to being able to consume something as nutrient-rich as meat and fish. But they also evolved to not HAVE to eat meat, because meat tended to be a much more occasional part of most paleolithic humans' diet than other foods that don't try to run away from you or eat you back.
We definitely evolved to like the taste of meat, for the same reasons we evolved to like the taste of ripe, sweet fruits and pretty much anything else that's nutritionally dense. But you might as well argue that rabbits and panda bears are "carnivores" because they had much more recent fully carnivorous evolutionary ancestors.
Also, I don't think I've ever in my life been in a place where there were more people being preachy vegans than there were people being preachy about complaining about preachy vegans. And I live in one of the most hippy-dippy places in the US, so you'd think if there were all these annoying preachy vegans running around calling folks murderers for having a cheeseburger I'd see them.
Riquende wrote: Well, time to quadruple my meat & cheese intake to make up the vegan-curious January shortfall.
I encourage everyone who gets offended by the existence of people who choose to be vegan to do this. Make up your own thing for it! How about Quaduary! Baconuary! it'll be great fun, do it.
Now I suddenly find it horrifying that plants really do scream in agony as we pick, pluck, slice and dice them. I love to cook and my favorite gadget of all time is my garlic squisher .. those poor little cloves, getting their skin ripped off and then their plump little bodies get pushed through teeny holes, then their bloody bits get dropped in white hot olive oil. Poor, poor garlic.
the_scotsman wrote: How about Quaduary! Baconuary! it'll be great fun, do it.
Well-Fedbruary...
Going back to the ag-types, where does sheep farming, and other similar types, fit into the argument and comparisons? I expect that it classes as free-range, where the sheep (or whatever) are taken to a hillside and left to roam for most of the year. That land cannot be used to grow crops, and mowing it for the grass is a huge waste of effort.
You get wool off them, too. And, that's just sheep.
I know that I eat too much meat, but I generally don't eat most of the alternatives. Cheese is out for me. I'll look at the vegan options, but it's probably not going to happen.
the_scotsman wrote: How about Quaduary! Baconuary! it'll be great fun, do it.
Well-Fedbruary...
Going back to the ag-types, where does sheep farming, and other similar types, fit into the argument and comparisons? I expect that it classes as free-range, where the sheep (or whatever) are taken to a hillside and left to roam for most of the year. That land cannot be used to grow crops, and mowing it for the grass is a huge waste of effort.
You get wool off them, too. And, that's just sheep.
I know that I eat too much meat, but I generally don't eat most of the alternatives. Cheese is out for me. I'll look at the vegan options, but it's probably not going to happen.
IMO, most vegan alternatives to things are just way worse than vegan things that aren't trying to be a meat thing. I guess impossible burgers are pretty yummy, but I think I'd like them a whole lot better if I liked my burgers medium or well done.
Fried tofu? love that stuff. crispy on the outside, soft and juicy on the inside, huge fan. Tofu that is artificially flavored to try and be meat? Tastes like ass.
Similar with veggie burgers. The best veggie burgers are the black bean ones and the sweet potato ones because they've got actual flavor to them, they're not just throwing whatever vegetables we've got into various blenders to try and replicate the texture of ground beef.
The one vegetarian alternative food I do make use of for a very specific purpose is actually seitan fake bacon, and it's because it has the ability to utterly disintegrate into a dish and evenly permeate the flavor of smoky bacon throughout it, much better than actual bacon does. If you make bacon mashed potatoes with real bacon, you get mashed potatoes with chunks of bacon in it and it only tastes like bacon where those little chunks are. If you use the seitan stuff, the whole mashed potato dish tastes like delicious bacon the whole way through.
I use this a lot with soups and stews, where if you put in real bacon it loses 100% of the appeal of bacon and becomes a nasty soggy stringy chewy thing. Whatever essence d'bacon they put in the seitan stuff is just very good, and probably incredibly bad for you.
I live in cattle country and work in ag and 90% of the cattle you see grazing on the hills are cow-calf operations. Those calves are going to be weened at eight months, shipped to a feedlot, and stuffed with soy and corn for the second half of their lives. No it’s not an optimal use of marginal land, not since everybody eats it seven days a week.
Jack fruit’s a weird one it’s not part of normal cuisine really, and I don’t eat meat alternatives. I eat normal food. Broccoli and sweet potatoes, red lentils with ginger, red lentils with carrots tomato celery and barley. A fast meal is whole grain pasta frozen spinach nutritional yeast and olives with garlic and seasoning, no oil no salt.
I cook kind of old world style so I usually have duxelles on hand, that’s a mushroom mince with some cooking wine etc. I put that on a sandwich with mashed up white beans and some jam.
I get 130 G protein a day before any shakes etc on gym days.
I feed the kids these black bean and beet brownies. A tiny bite sized one is about 4g protein.
3 C cooked beans
1/2 C cocoa powder
1 C quick / rolled oats
1/2 tsp salt
2/3 C corn / maple syrup / honey etc
1/2 C oil
4 tsp vanilla extract
4 tsp baking powder
1 C puréed beet + applesauce. You have to roast or steam the beet before you purée it.
Blend it hard
3/4 C white flour
1 C chocolate chips
350 for 20 min.
Someday sure, there could be a catastrophe that destroys interstate shipping and I won’t have access to large scale mechanized agriculture. I’ll have to go into the mountains to shoot something every year. That hasn’t happened, I live in an industrial society, and I’m not going to eat giant piles of meat.
I’m not vegan. I’m a firefighter so I wear a leather helmet, and it’s cold here so I put my kids and myself in wool socks. I eat plant based so I feel young and live longer to make sure that cafeterias and company picnics have plant foods as normal parts of meals and so I can keep meat packing plants and feed lots from opening. Land uses like that have to be democratically determined and putting them anywhere are not good decisions.
The human body is not designed to live on a purely vegetarian diet, which is why you see so many supplements in a vegan's diet. I will stick with balanced meals and I'll be pretty okay..
False.
B12 is the only supplement I use and the only one necessary.
On the subject of dried beans. What's your favorites? I've struggled to get dried beans to turn out right for a while and just discovered that there is such a thing as beans that are too old.
I've tried the quick soaks and an over night soak. But I am wondering should I soak them longer or maybe a lot longer?
Why take part in Veganuary? Well, why not?
There are so many reasons people decide to try vegan.
For most, a love of animals is the catalyst. Some people want to feel better about themselves and the impact they make on the world. Others would like to set themselves a challenge, and many combine Veganuary with their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ and see trying vegan as the healthiest start to the year. Whatever your reason, we’re here to support you.
So try vegan for a month and discover a whole new world of taste and flavour. We guarantee that, by the end of the month, you’ll feel fantastic!
queen_annes_revenge wrote: We can't digest raw meat because we've been cooking it so long, that's the same reason we don't have the huge caveman Jaws or teeth anymore
And that means you stop being a.....
Put it this way: Is a panda a carnivore? Those things are fething bears. They've still got the bear jaws and the bear teeth. They have direct ancestral cousins in Polar Bears who are, in fact, still 100% meat-eating carnivores. They are a HELL of a lot closer to it than humans are.
As a person who eats and enjoys meat, the anti-vegan "but it's evolution" argument holds zero water. Humans evolved to be able to eat some meat, sure, there's an evolutionary advantage to being able to consume something as nutrient-rich as meat and fish. But they also evolved to not HAVE to eat meat, because meat tended to be a much more occasional part of most paleolithic humans' diet than other foods that don't try to run away from you or eat you back.
We definitely evolved to like the taste of meat, for the same reasons we evolved to like the taste of ripe, sweet fruits and pretty much anything else that's nutritionally dense. But you might as well argue that rabbits and panda bears are "carnivores" because they had much more recent fully carnivorous evolutionary ancestors.
Also, I don't think I've ever in my life been in a place where there were more people being preachy vegans than there were people being preachy about complaining about preachy vegans. And I live in one of the most hippy-dippy places in the US, so you'd think if there were all these annoying preachy vegans running around calling folks murderers for having a cheeseburger I'd see them.
Seems like you blew that up a little more than was necessary.. All I did was answer someones point..
Excommunicatus wrote: I usually do at least 24hrs if a pressure cooker isn't available.
An Instant Pot takes about twenty minutes.
Thank you. I'll try a 24 hour soak. We have a pressure caner but not sure that's the same thing as a pressure cooker. I had been looking at an instant pot I may get one.
We homestead and I want to put in pinto beans, black eyed peas and some others this next year.
Riquende wrote: Well, time to quadruple my meat & cheese intake to make up the vegan-curious January shortfall.
I encourage everyone who gets offended by the existence of people who choose to be vegan to do this. Make up your own thing for it! How about Quaduary! Baconuary! it'll be great fun, do it.
warhead01 wrote: On the subject of dried beans. What's your favorites? I've struggled to get dried beans to turn out right for a while and just discovered that there is such a thing as beans that are too old.
I've tried the quick soaks and an over night soak. But I am wondering should I soak them longer or maybe a lot longer?
Lentils, hands down. Precisely because they don't require the whole soaking thing. lentil based soup is best soup, you can put anything in that base and make it tasty.
Riquende wrote: Well, time to quadruple my meat & cheese intake to make up the vegan-curious January shortfall.
I encourage everyone who gets offended by the existence of people who choose to be vegan to do this. Make up your own thing for it! How about Quaduary! Baconuary! it'll be great fun, do it.
Bring back BBQuary!
From a practicality standpoint, that sounds very, uh. cold, if you live where I live.
Was vegeterian for nearly a year. Was struggling to keep up with demands of work life/gym training balance. Always hungry, always thinking about getting more nutrients /supplaments in... Long story short, a year into being vegeterian went vegan. This lasted for two weeks and basicaly ended up with a mini mental breakdown as I felt so malnurished and hungry despite chowing down all the beans, avocados vegetables and supplaments which were bland AF I boiled a couple of eggs and had them with a salad.
I have never before or since cried from the simple sensation of putting food in my mouth and my body rejoiced at proper nutirents. Boiled eggs my mans... boiled eggs.. The blandest animal product in existance.
Realised how idiotic it was as it made zero impact on the enviormnet and a lot of impact on ym wellbeing. Went out and ate 2 cheeseburgers and a kebba and have not looked back since.
Good luck to ya'll though. I hope you do it better than me.
My 2 pence.
Why take part in Veganuary? Well, why not?
There are so many reasons people decide to try vegan.
For most, a love of animals is the catalyst. Some people want to feel better about themselves and the impact they make on the world. Others would like to set themselves a challenge, and many combine Veganuary with their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ and see trying vegan as the healthiest start to the year. Whatever your reason, we’re here to support you.
So try vegan for a month and discover a whole new world of taste and flavour. We guarantee that, by the end of the month, you’ll feel fantastic!
I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
John Prins wrote: I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
That it does. And I do think it'd be better if people could just reduce meat consumption to a more sensible level to where they get the vitamins they need out of it without consuming so much deceptively calorie dense food.
But having studied my own habits, a small change is one I'm likely to forget about after a few weeks, but if I instead spend a few weeks making a big change, I then correct to the small change I was aiming for after that period.
I was raised in an incredibly unhealthy household. I never did any sports until high school, when I was finally making some of my own decisions and I joined a football team, and pretty much every meal was processed, usually frozen, and almost all meat and carbs. The culture of revulsion surrounding eating a vegetable-based meal was a tough one to break, even after I'd realized how stupid it was when I left home for college and started eating not even healthily, just on a budget where I couldn't afford cheeseburgers and potato chips every night and I started losing weight while my parents ate themselves to death.
I think it's one part fear of the food being flavorless/not filling, and one part just..not knowing how to cook a meal that's only or even mostly vegetables. I think most americans try to come up with stuff and they're like
OK, Salad.
1) Salads
hmmm.
1 - Salad
2 -
Ok I'll just brainstorm:
-Salad
-
-
-
.....
And salads are fine, but they have basically no seasoning, get old extremely fast, and if you swap from eating a certain amount of meat to a certain amount of salad without checking how many calories you're taking in you're liable to drop from 3000 calories per day to like 1200 and your digestive tract will jump up into your throat and strangle you until you eat more food.
John Prins wrote: I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
That it does. And I do think it'd be better if people could just reduce meat consumption to a more sensible level to where they get the vitamins they need out of it without consuming so much deceptively calorie dense food.
But having studied my own habits, a small change is one I'm likely to forget about after a few weeks, but if I instead spend a few weeks making a big change, I then correct to the small change I was aiming for after that period.
I was raised in an incredibly unhealthy household. I never did any sports until high school, when I was finally making some of my own decisions and I joined a football team, and pretty much every meal was processed, usually frozen, and almost all meat and carbs. The culture of revulsion surrounding eating a vegetable-based meal was a tough one to break, even after I'd realized how stupid it was when I left home for college and started eating not even healthily, just on a budget where I couldn't afford cheeseburgers and potato chips every night and I started losing weight while my parents ate themselves to death.
I think it's one part fear of the food being flavorless/not filling, and one part just..not knowing how to cook a meal that's only or even mostly vegetables. I think most americans try to come up with stuff and they're like
OK, Salad.
1) Salads
hmmm.
1 - Salad 2 -
Ok I'll just brainstorm:
-Salad - - -
.....
And salads are fine, but they have basically no seasoning, get old extremely fast, and if you swap from eating a certain amount of meat to a certain amount of salad without checking how many calories you're taking in you're liable to drop from 3000 calories per day to like 1200 and your digestive tract will jump up into your throat and strangle you until you eat more food.
I think this is a cultural thing, particularly for most Caucasian families, where you guys aren't taught how to actually cook vegetables right or in a way that's both healthy and tasty, I grew up hearing the usual tale of gross broccoli and other veggies but given that I was basically raised off of always having vegetables as one of the main dishes (usually bak choi, choi sum, broccoli or nappa) I never understood why there was a stigma around eating them. It wasn't until I went to a friend's house that I saw either how their dishes were completely vacant in veggies or they basically ate undercooked (or uncooked!) veggies and relying on dips and drowning it sauces to make it palatable. It's mind boggling that so many people don't know how to stir fry or boil veggies effectively as part of a home cooked meal.
John Prins wrote: I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
That it does. And I do think it'd be better if people could just reduce meat consumption to a more sensible level to where they get the vitamins they need out of it without consuming so much deceptively calorie dense food.
But having studied my own habits, a small change is one I'm likely to forget about after a few weeks, but if I instead spend a few weeks making a big change, I then correct to the small change I was aiming for after that period.
I was raised in an incredibly unhealthy household. I never did any sports until high school, when I was finally making some of my own decisions and I joined a football team, and pretty much every meal was processed, usually frozen, and almost all meat and carbs. The culture of revulsion surrounding eating a vegetable-based meal was a tough one to break, even after I'd realized how stupid it was when I left home for college and started eating not even healthily, just on a budget where I couldn't afford cheeseburgers and potato chips every night and I started losing weight while my parents ate themselves to death.
I think it's one part fear of the food being flavorless/not filling, and one part just..not knowing how to cook a meal that's only or even mostly vegetables. I think most americans try to come up with stuff and they're like
OK, Salad.
1) Salads
hmmm.
1 - Salad
2 -
Ok I'll just brainstorm:
-Salad
-
-
-
.....
And salads are fine, but they have basically no seasoning, get old extremely fast, and if you swap from eating a certain amount of meat to a certain amount of salad without checking how many calories you're taking in you're liable to drop from 3000 calories per day to like 1200 and your digestive tract will jump up into your throat and strangle you until you eat more food.
I think this is a cultural thing, particularly for most Caucasian families, where you guys aren't taught how to actually cook vegetables right or in a way that's both healthy and tasty, I grew up hearing the usual tale of gross broccoli and other veggies but given that I was basically raised off of always having vegetables as one of the main dishes (usually bak choi, choi sum, broccoli or nappa) I never understood why there was a stigma around eating them. It wasn't until I went to a friend's house that I saw either how their dishes were completely vacant in veggies or they basically ate undercooked (or uncooked!) veggies and relying on dips and drowning it sauces to make it palatable. It's mind boggling that so many people don't know how to stir fry or boil veggies effectively as part of a home cooked meal.
I had a visceral negative reaction when you said "boiled". My mother (who learned from her mother, a post-WW2 1950s housewife who followed the "Domestic Science" philosophy of ease-of-digestion cooking) basically boiled every vegetable we ever ate, and never seasoned anything that was cooked.
That meant the meats, which were generally prepackaged and frozen, had whatever spices it had in the package so it at least tasted like something, but any piece of vegetable matter was limp, drained of all color and flavor by the boiling, and tasted like either the salt you put on it or nothing.
Yeah, the american cultural aversion to spinach, broccoli, brussels sprouts and several other veggies can be pretty much traced back to that post-apocalyptic hell philosophy pushed by 1950s food processing companies. Combine that with having never properly calorie-counted, leading to the first couple attempts at dieting getting stymied by accidentally trying to chop my daily calorie intake down to 1/3, I had a few issues with vegetables until I did a lot of research and learned to actually cook.
John Prins wrote: I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
That it does. And I do think it'd be better if people could just reduce meat consumption to a more sensible level to where they get the vitamins they need out of it without consuming so much deceptively calorie dense food.
But having studied my own habits, a small change is one I'm likely to forget about after a few weeks, but if I instead spend a few weeks making a big change, I then correct to the small change I was aiming for after that period.
I was raised in an incredibly unhealthy household. I never did any sports until high school, when I was finally making some of my own decisions and I joined a football team, and pretty much every meal was processed, usually frozen, and almost all meat and carbs. The culture of revulsion surrounding eating a vegetable-based meal was a tough one to break, even after I'd realized how stupid it was when I left home for college and started eating not even healthily, just on a budget where I couldn't afford cheeseburgers and potato chips every night and I started losing weight while my parents ate themselves to death.
I think it's one part fear of the food being flavorless/not filling, and one part just..not knowing how to cook a meal that's only or even mostly vegetables. I think most americans try to come up with stuff and they're like
OK, Salad.
1) Salads
hmmm.
1 - Salad
2 -
Ok I'll just brainstorm:
-Salad
-
-
-
.....
And salads are fine, but they have basically no seasoning, get old extremely fast, and if you swap from eating a certain amount of meat to a certain amount of salad without checking how many calories you're taking in you're liable to drop from 3000 calories per day to like 1200 and your digestive tract will jump up into your throat and strangle you until you eat more food.
I think this is a cultural thing, particularly for most Caucasian families, where you guys aren't taught how to actually cook vegetables right or in a way that's both healthy and tasty, I grew up hearing the usual tale of gross broccoli and other veggies but given that I was basically raised off of always having vegetables as one of the main dishes (usually bak choi, choi sum, broccoli or nappa) I never understood why there was a stigma around eating them. It wasn't until I went to a friend's house that I saw either how their dishes were completely vacant in veggies or they basically ate undercooked (or uncooked!) veggies and relying on dips and drowning it sauces to make it palatable. It's mind boggling that so many people don't know how to stir fry or boil veggies effectively as part of a home cooked meal.
I had a visceral negative reaction when you said "boiled". My mother (who learned from her mother, a post-WW2 1950s housewife who followed the "Domestic Science" philosophy of ease-of-digestion cooking) basically boiled every vegetable we ever ate, and never seasoned anything that was cooked.
That meant the meats, which were generally prepackaged and frozen, had whatever spices it had in the package so it at least tasted like something, but any piece of vegetable matter was limp, drained of all color and flavor by the boiling, and tasted like either the salt you put on it or nothing.
Yeah, the american cultural aversion to spinach, broccoli, brussels sprouts and several other veggies can be pretty much traced back to that post-apocalyptic hell philosophy pushed by 1950s food processing companies. Combine that with having never properly calorie-counted, leading to the first couple attempts at dieting getting stymied by accidentally trying to chop my daily calorie intake down to 1/3, I had a few issues with vegetables until I did a lot of research and learned to actually cook.
Thanks for sharing that! Didn't realize that it came from companies pushing that idea of cooking in the American household, thankfully with globalization and the internet I think that trend is going away. Still makes me disappointed that home economics or the basics of healthy eating when you cook for yourself isn't ingrained for education in the current public school system. That alongside doing taxes are some of the things I hope to get my kids to learn early given that I don't think that it'll be taught competently at school anytime soon.
John Prins wrote: I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
That it does. And I do think it'd be better if people could just reduce meat consumption to a more sensible level to where they get the vitamins they need out of it without consuming so much deceptively calorie dense food.
But having studied my own habits, a small change is one I'm likely to forget about after a few weeks, but if I instead spend a few weeks making a big change, I then correct to the small change I was aiming for after that period.
I was raised in an incredibly unhealthy household. I never did any sports until high school, when I was finally making some of my own decisions and I joined a football team, and pretty much every meal was processed, usually frozen, and almost all meat and carbs. The culture of revulsion surrounding eating a vegetable-based meal was a tough one to break, even after I'd realized how stupid it was when I left home for college and started eating not even healthily, just on a budget where I couldn't afford cheeseburgers and potato chips every night and I started losing weight while my parents ate themselves to death.
I think it's one part fear of the food being flavorless/not filling, and one part just..not knowing how to cook a meal that's only or even mostly vegetables. I think most americans try to come up with stuff and they're like
OK, Salad.
1) Salads
hmmm.
1 - Salad
2 -
Ok I'll just brainstorm:
-Salad
-
-
-
.....
And salads are fine, but they have basically no seasoning, get old extremely fast, and if you swap from eating a certain amount of meat to a certain amount of salad without checking how many calories you're taking in you're liable to drop from 3000 calories per day to like 1200 and your digestive tract will jump up into your throat and strangle you until you eat more food.
I think this is a cultural thing, particularly for most Caucasian families, where you guys aren't taught how to actually cook vegetables right or in a way that's both healthy and tasty, I grew up hearing the usual tale of gross broccoli and other veggies but given that I was basically raised off of always having vegetables as one of the main dishes (usually bak choi, choi sum, broccoli or nappa) I never understood why there was a stigma around eating them. It wasn't until I went to a friend's house that I saw either how their dishes were completely vacant in veggies or they basically ate undercooked (or uncooked!) veggies and relying on dips and drowning it sauces to make it palatable. It's mind boggling that so many people don't know how to stir fry or boil veggies effectively as part of a home cooked meal.
I had a visceral negative reaction when you said "boiled". My mother (who learned from her mother, a post-WW2 1950s housewife who followed the "Domestic Science" philosophy of ease-of-digestion cooking) basically boiled every vegetable we ever ate, and never seasoned anything that was cooked.
That meant the meats, which were generally prepackaged and frozen, had whatever spices it had in the package so it at least tasted like something, but any piece of vegetable matter was limp, drained of all color and flavor by the boiling, and tasted like either the salt you put on it or nothing.
Yeah, the american cultural aversion to spinach, broccoli, brussels sprouts and several other veggies can be pretty much traced back to that post-apocalyptic hell philosophy pushed by 1950s food processing companies. Combine that with having never properly calorie-counted, leading to the first couple attempts at dieting getting stymied by accidentally trying to chop my daily calorie intake down to 1/3, I had a few issues with vegetables until I did a lot of research and learned to actually cook.
Thanks for sharing that! Didn't realize that it came from companies pushing that idea of cooking in the American household, thankfully with globalization and the internet I think that trend is going away. Still makes me disappointed that home economics or the basics of healthy eating when you cook for yourself isn't ingrained for education in the current public school system. That alongside doing taxes are some of the things I hope to get my kids to learn early given that I don't think that it'll be taught competently at school anytime soon.
If you think the internet is making it harder and not easier for companies to push misinformation on global consumers then I....admire your optimism?
John Prins wrote: I'll be the first to say that most people eat too much meat. Maybe 1/3 of my meals involve some form of meat/egg/fish. Meat is expensive and you don't need a lot of it. It is, however, an easier road to full nutrition than any sort of vegetarianism/veganism, which require a lot of education and effort to pull off. Most of the attempted vegetarians I've known gave up trying after a couple of months or years and most of them were fairly miserable about the whole ordeal of trying to be a vegetarian in an omnivore's world.
That it does. And I do think it'd be better if people could just reduce meat consumption to a more sensible level to where they get the vitamins they need out of it without consuming so much deceptively calorie dense food.
But having studied my own habits, a small change is one I'm likely to forget about after a few weeks, but if I instead spend a few weeks making a big change, I then correct to the small change I was aiming for after that period.
I was raised in an incredibly unhealthy household. I never did any sports until high school, when I was finally making some of my own decisions and I joined a football team, and pretty much every meal was processed, usually frozen, and almost all meat and carbs. The culture of revulsion surrounding eating a vegetable-based meal was a tough one to break, even after I'd realized how stupid it was when I left home for college and started eating not even healthily, just on a budget where I couldn't afford cheeseburgers and potato chips every night and I started losing weight while my parents ate themselves to death.
I think it's one part fear of the food being flavorless/not filling, and one part just..not knowing how to cook a meal that's only or even mostly vegetables. I think most americans try to come up with stuff and they're like
OK, Salad.
1) Salads
hmmm.
1 - Salad 2 -
Ok I'll just brainstorm:
-Salad - - -
.....
And salads are fine, but they have basically no seasoning, get old extremely fast, and if you swap from eating a certain amount of meat to a certain amount of salad without checking how many calories you're taking in you're liable to drop from 3000 calories per day to like 1200 and your digestive tract will jump up into your throat and strangle you until you eat more food.
I think this is a cultural thing, particularly for most Caucasian families, where you guys aren't taught how to actually cook vegetables right or in a way that's both healthy and tasty, I grew up hearing the usual tale of gross broccoli and other veggies but given that I was basically raised off of always having vegetables as one of the main dishes (usually bak choi, choi sum, broccoli or nappa) I never understood why there was a stigma around eating them. It wasn't until I went to a friend's house that I saw either how their dishes were completely vacant in veggies or they basically ate undercooked (or uncooked!) veggies and relying on dips and drowning it sauces to make it palatable. It's mind boggling that so many people don't know how to stir fry or boil veggies effectively as part of a home cooked meal.
I had a visceral negative reaction when you said "boiled". My mother (who learned from her mother, a post-WW2 1950s housewife who followed the "Domestic Science" philosophy of ease-of-digestion cooking) basically boiled every vegetable we ever ate, and never seasoned anything that was cooked.
That meant the meats, which were generally prepackaged and frozen, had whatever spices it had in the package so it at least tasted like something, but any piece of vegetable matter was limp, drained of all color and flavor by the boiling, and tasted like either the salt you put on it or nothing.
Yeah, the american cultural aversion to spinach, broccoli, brussels sprouts and several other veggies can be pretty much traced back to that post-apocalyptic hell philosophy pushed by 1950s food processing companies. Combine that with having never properly calorie-counted, leading to the first couple attempts at dieting getting stymied by accidentally trying to chop my daily calorie intake down to 1/3, I had a few issues with vegetables until I did a lot of research and learned to actually cook.
Thanks for sharing that! Didn't realize that it came from companies pushing that idea of cooking in the American household, thankfully with globalization and the internet I think that trend is going away. Still makes me disappointed that home economics or the basics of healthy eating when you cook for yourself isn't ingrained for education in the current public school system. That alongside doing taxes are some of the things I hope to get my kids to learn early given that I don't think that it'll be taught competently at school anytime soon.
If you think the internet is making it harder and not easier for companies to push misinformation on global consumers then I....admire your optimism?
Oh don't get me wrong, there's still plenty of misinformation and bad cooking on the net. At the very least though, you have options to try out potentially good and different things versus only being limited to a few bad cooking ideologies..
queen_annes_revenge wrote: We can't digest raw meat because we've been cooking it so long, that's the same reason we don't have the huge caveman Jaws or teeth anymore
Who exactly do you mean by 'we' here? Our species has always had to cook (most) meat.
Grey Templar wrote: And why is it relevant weather it’s cooked or not? It’s still meat.
You responded with two points:
"Anyway, humans are carnivores too."
Which seemed like kind of a wild claim, given that humans are perfectly capable of digesting a great number of plant based foods raw, but have an extremely tough time digesting large amounts of raw meat.
Consider that "Carnivore" means "an animal (such as a dog, fox, crocodile, or shark) that feeds primarily or exclusively on animal matter : a carnivorous animal". Humans do eat meat, but historically even pre-agriculture most of our nutrition came from plant matter. That makes us omnivores, not carnivores.
"Farm raised animals are safe, given all the food they need, and a quick and painless death."
This one's also pretty interesting to me. You could maybe back this claim up by talking about smaller free range farms where the goal is animal welfare, but the vast, vast majority of animals farmed for meat are being kept in factory farms, where your second and third claims are preeeeeetty suspect. And on the face of it, I just have to look back and forth between your first and third claim and wonder what your working definition of "Safe" is. Sure, they can't get killed by predators or the environment (though a significant number of them are killed well before slaughter by the other animals or because of the conditions they're kept in) but we're going to kill them as soon as they're fully grown. This just seems like describing Death Row inmates as "safe".
If you asked me whether I'd rather live out my life as a cow in the wild but I have to get killed by a wolf pack or if I'd like to live out my life in a factory farm and I get a relatively painless and definitely quicker death, I'm gonna pick the first one every time. Anyone who describes a factory farm as anything but an unimaginable nightmare has never been in one.
Well, I have been in many so called "factory" farms. And I do describe them as safe and good for the animals. Anybody describing them as insufferable nightmares is ignorant about how animals actually function and/or hasn't been in one themselves.
For an example,
Many so called "animal welfare activists" claim that the small cages that laying hens are kept in are bad for their health. The truth is that one reason the cages are kept to the small size is because if the chickens are given more space they will actually hurt themselves. Leghorns are extremely flighty and skittish birds. If they are put in larger cages they will beat themselves to death from something as innocuous as a worker walking past them. And if a chicken has even a small injury, all the other chickens will quickly peck it to death and eat it.
Claims that it is bad for the animals health to keep them in confinement are also ignoring a very key fact. Animals that are in poor health do NOT make money for the farmer. If you spook a chicken, it will not lay eggs for several days. If the chicken is sick or ill, it won't lay any eggs at all. The fact that chickens lay hundreds of eggs a year in factory farms is proof that the chickens are not suffering or in poor health.
Likewise, if a pig is sick or stressed, it won't put on weight and the little meat is does make will be of poor quality. If a cow is sick or stressed, it won't make much milk or produce good beef.
Farmers of any kind do not make money if their animals are sick, stressed, or living in poor conditions. If factory farms were truly bad for the animals, there would be no money in raising animals like that. The fact that animals produce large volumes of product in these farms is proof that the animals are not suffering or in any kind of duress.
As a Tyranid player this stands against everything we believe in!
Going clean for a month is a good thing for the body. As for the animal side of things, perhaps aim to take more note about the well being of the stock that you do eat. Caged chickens are not producing best results and its a miserable life for the animal, as well as delivering inferior food.
Our place in the animal kingdom is that of hunter and farmer, and so we shouldn't go silly on depriving ourselves. On the other hand, we get best results when we take responsibility for our work. We grow and raise our crops'n'stocks in seasons and so maybe January is a good start to the year when trying a diet, even if it is only for January....
My brother-in-law went vegetarian for a few years for health reasons. We frequently gathered with him and his family, so I was able to get a taste of vegetarian foods. I was surprised how good it was and could replace meat with fungi and other elements.
I do not think I would want to do it full time 100%, but it was a lot more tasty than I expected.
I was a vegetarian for 5 years, back when I was in college. My diet mostly qualified as Veganism, except for the occasional cheese products and some of the ingredients in Ramen noodles.
Would advise avoiding it.
Had a real problem with the breakdown of muscle mass, it prevented me from getting much out of cardio or weight lifting. It affected my mood, making it a lot harder to socialize. Sleep problems were constant, I was always getting too much or too little, never finding a balance. I would get weird injuries, broke a rib one night just sleeping on it wrong.
This is all stuff I can see in retrospect. I'd describe Veganism as a stay in place lifestyle, you can't really do as much when you are denying yourself protein or getting it in synthetic form. There's plenty of people who claim they can, but compare them with actual athletes and you see what I mean.
Got off it after my first kid was born, returning to meat added necessary energy for late nights with toddler. Haven't looked back and recognize I'm healthier for having a balanced diet. I'm also glad to be free form the Vegans that were part of my life at the time. They treated the lifestyle much like a religion, not sure that's appropriate for what amounts to decisions about menus.
Veganism is heavily politicized and has been since the 1950s. The OP talked about how there's nothing to lose. That's false, of course, anytime someone encourages you to make a radical change to your lifestyle you should be asking yourself why is it so important.
The obvious downside is that veganism alters your body chemistry and metabolism in unpredictable ways even on short cycles. While you may feel a little better, it's short term and the diet itself is likely not the cause - i.e. you may be abstaining from fast food, which automatically has an improvement on your health and outlook on life. That doesn't mean root vegetables are magical or supplying you with the necessary nutrients. You could get the same boost simply by fasting.
Beyond that, veganism is completely separate from having a plant-based diet, it's a political movement and the people who push for it are very quiet about that aspect of things. The claims made by proponents are the equivalent of gun-rights activists, pro-lifers, and other issue advocates: they focus strictly on facts that support their argument and either ignore or distort ones that don't. That's dishonest and unethical.
You might want to consider these points next time you talk to a Vegan:
- There is no scalable model for sustainably producing enough food to feed the world’s population that does not include large animals.
- A diet devoid of all animal products is extremely detrimental to the health of most individuals. That’s a big reason why 84% of people who go vegan quit within the first twelve months.
If you really want to try this, go ahead, but please do not believe any claims that there is no downside. Mods should really consider whether this thread should be allowed on Dakka, there's an actual potential for someone to be harmed by letting this go unchallenged.
Hate to agree with ex but, yeah.. I like how gun rights and pro choice got lumped in there as negative connotations... Ironically too being as you're using them as snarl words, the very same thing you're accusing vegans of doing.
Truthfully lumping in those specific words Techsoldaten used seems like a crude attempt at getting the thread locked, just like his last sentence requested. That sauce is awful weak.
It's weird that at one point someone referred to someone as a "militant vegan", but in reality this thread was one person going "hey try eating some vegetables maybe" and the other responses have been a whole lot of hyper-aggressive pushback and paeans to meat eating.
I have no interest in actually trying veganism but still there might be handy cooking info about maybe trying something new once or twice in here. I dunno why people are so weirdly worked up about it.
Ouze wrote: Truthfully lumping in those specific words Techsoldaten used seems like a crude attempt at getting the thread locked, just like his last sentence requested. That sauce is awful weak.
It's weird that at one point someone referred to someone as a "militant vegan", but in reality this thread was one person going "hey try eating some vegetables maybe" and the other responses have been a whole lot of hyper-aggressive pushback and paeans to meat eating.
I have no interest in actually trying veganism but still there might be handy cooking info about maybe trying something new once or twice in here. I dunno why people are so weirdly worked up about it.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Might be some interesting alternative meals or cooking info in looking up something like that even if I have no desire to actually follow through on it for a month. The vehement defensive reactions to the mere suggestion are a bit overboard.
Ouze wrote: Truthfully lumping in those specific words Techsoldaten used seems like a crude attempt at getting the thread locked, just like his last sentence requested. That sauce is awful weak.
It's weird that at one point someone referred to someone as a "militant vegan", but in reality this thread was one person going "hey try eating some vegetables maybe" and the other responses have been a whole lot of hyper-aggressive pushback and paeans to meat eating.
I have no interest in actually trying veganism but still there might be handy cooking info about maybe trying something new once or twice in here. I dunno why people are so weirdly worked up about it.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Might be some interesting alternative meals or cooking info in looking up something like that even if I have no desire to actually follow through on it for a month. The vehement defensive reactions to the mere suggestion are a bit overboard.
No matter how polite someone is with said suggestion, it still comes off to some as correcting their eating habits, which is awful presumptuous. Add onto the fact that for every kind, caring, and diplomatic vegan doing this you have three militant Lifestyle Justice Warriors who will sing "meat is murder" to you while you eat and try to shame or badger you into following what is in their mind the superior moral lifestyle. It sucks that someone gets lumped in with the bad apples, but when you play the ratios people have a bad tendency to expect all to act like most. Outliers get drowned out.
Ouze wrote: Truthfully lumping in those specific words Techsoldaten used seems like a crude attempt at getting the thread locked, just like his last sentence requested. That sauce is awful weak.
It's weird that at one point someone referred to someone as a "militant vegan", but in reality this thread was one person going "hey try eating some vegetables maybe" and the other responses have been a whole lot of hyper-aggressive pushback and paeans to meat eating.
I have no interest in actually trying veganism but still there might be handy cooking info about maybe trying something new once or twice in here. I dunno why people are so weirdly worked up about it.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Might be some interesting alternative meals or cooking info in looking up something like that even if I have no desire to actually follow through on it for a month. The vehement defensive reactions to the mere suggestion are a bit overboard.
No matter how polite someone is with said suggestion, it still comes off to some as correcting their eating habits, which is awful presumptuous. Add onto the fact that for every kind, caring, and diplomatic vegan doing this you have three militant Lifestyle Justice Warriors who will sing "meat is murder" to you while you eat and try to shame or badger you into following what is in their mind the superior moral lifestyle. It sucks that someone gets lumped in with the bad apples, but when you play the ratios people have a bad tendency to expect all to act like most. Outliers get drowned out.
I've literally never encountered one of these people other than two or three times on twitter and I've spent 20 years playing, promoting, and going to anarcho crust punk and grindcore shows. Probably the most vegan-heavy demographic in the west.
While I can respect the choices of people who choose not to consume meat, I would never be one of them. I love meat too much to give it up. And I mean just about any kind of meat other than fish (which I don't hate but don't like much).
BobtheInquisitor wrote:Has...has that actually happened to you, Just Tony?
The most I get from my militant vegan friend these days is a warning that cooked and processed meats increase my chances of getting cancer.
I live next to Purdue University, it's happened at least five times there. The most odd was some rando outside the Novi Comicon in Michigan as I was approaching the con with some McD's for myself and my friends, he just walkes up and literally sings the sentence. I simply cocked my eyebrow and walked past. Not sure what it was supposed to accomplish.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Well, that is pretty random. I’m not sure McDonald’s even counts as meat.
We're talking about militant vegans here. If it's not on the PETA approved list of products that comes out every year, IT IS MURDER AND MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, colleges bring out the worst. I've had fights picked with me AND been spit on because I was in uniform, I've seen someone grab someone else's food and throw it to the ground, it's simply the worst.
I believe Tony about campus kids. There are always edge lord protesters on college campuses trying to outdo each other. Fortunately, most of us don't have to deal with those kids after we graduate.
50 edgelord vegans broke into a local 1-man, 7-cow farm yesterday and harassed the poor guy to the point he had to call the police the get them out of the stables.
Reducing meat conspumption is good but for these tools it's not about that, it's about feeling morally superior to everybody else, just another part of gen Y and Z snowflake culture.
Being Vegan, really being Vegan, is an unsustainable approach towards the world and one which can end up harming the environment in multiple ways. I also think that many (if not the majority of) Vegans use the term when they really just lean vegetarian. My understanding has always been that Vegans don’t just abstain from any animal food, but also from any product of any kind that has been deprived from animals or even from animal labor. Honey, leather, wool, silk, and even arguments about agriculture in general being non-Vegan if beehives are used as “labor” to pollinate crops.
Replacing all animal products requires replacements with plastics, so I guess the cow is happy but the planet is just fethed in other ways.
Now, I am not vegetarian, but I do see the wisdom of increasing your plant intake rather than protein and animal fats to an extend. And I am a big fan of sourcing your meat from local and humane producers. Just because I am pro-meat doesn’t mean I have to be an donkey-cave about it and support places that don’t raise animals in a humane fashion.
Excommunicatus wrote: Can you link me to the interview wherein they shared their motivations?
'Cause I can see you deplore 'snowflake' culture, so I know you're definitely not making stuff up that you can get all self-righteous and ranty about.
I even faked the 1 hour vlog in English by the organizers that I already linked to, huh, and you're definitely not ignoring any evidence that doesn't support your own views.
d-usa wrote:Being Vegan, really being Vegan, is an unsustainable approach towards the world and one which can end up harming the environment in multiple ways. I also think that many (if not the majority of) Vegans use the term when they really just lean vegetarian. My understanding has always been that Vegans don’t just abstain from any animal food, but also from any product of any kind that has been deprived from animals or even from animal labor. Honey, leather, wool, silk, and even arguments about agriculture in general being non-Vegan if beehives are used as “labor” to pollinate crops.
Replacing all animal products requires replacements with plastics, so I guess the cow is happy but the planet is just fethed in other ways.
Now, I am not vegetarian, but I do see the wisdom of increasing your plant intake rather than protein and animal fats to an extend. And I am a big fan of sourcing your meat from local and humane producers. Just because I am pro-meat doesn’t mean I have to be an donkey-cave about it and support places that don’t raise animals in a humane fashion.
So is the understanding of Russia's flagship agitprop broadcaster.
The most widely accepted of veganism is "the exclusion of animal exploitation wherever possible". We are not mandated to St. Francis cosplay and the standard is not one of perfection.
It's worth noting that the majority of vrgans I have encountered consider that 'animal' includes human beings.
lord_blackfang wrote:
Excommunicatus wrote: Can you link me to the interview wherein they shared their motivations?
'Cause I can see you deplore 'snowflake' culture, so I know you're definitely not making stuff up that you can get all self-righteous and ranty about.
I even faked the 1 hour vlog in English by the organizers that I already linked to, huh, and you're definitely not ignoring any evidence that doesn't support your own views.
The one that does not in any way shape or form agree with you as to their motivations? Because, for clarity, I don't dispute that the protest happened; I dispute the motivations that YOU attributed to the protestors and that you cannot support in any factual manner.
So you are in fact making things up so that you can get offended by them. There is a term used to describe people like that. It momentarily escapes me.
Man, people love those month-long challenges where you grow a beard or don't honk the fandangler for a month, but they're really having problems with the idea of people freely choosing to eat plants for 30 days.
where the heck does this violent reaction to veganism come from? Are people actually followed around by angry college protestors in weird "Then Everybody Clapped" scenarios?
I live in a city that's like 1/3 college students, I've seen animal rights protestors with the nasty mutilated animal signs, but like..I've seen 10 times more fundamentalist christian protestors telling me I'm going to hell because abortions and gay people.
Is it like, out on the godless liberal coasts we attract all the fundies and all the militant vegans head inland to tell the square-staters they're all meat murderers, or something?
the_scotsman wrote: where the heck does this violent reaction to veganism come from? Are people actually followed around by angry college protestors in weird "Then Everybody Clapped" scenarios?
Well, people probably mostly just don't like being called murderers maybe? Although I have no idea if anyone is being confronted in that way or how often.
I'm not vegan, but I do really appreciate that they exist, because I have a milk allergy and so it is annoying how many "non-dairy" things actually have milk protein in it (which is precisely what I have a reaction to) and what non-dairy actually means is non-lactose. The fact that vegans exist generally gives me more options on things to buy and places to buy them. Although it is bothersome how much soy goes into those sorts of products, because anything other than soy protein (which most soy products in the US tend not to be made exclusively from, in my understanding) is something I have trouble digesting.
the_scotsman wrote: where the heck does this violent reaction to veganism come from? Are people actually followed around by angry college protestors in weird "Then Everybody Clapped" scenarios?
Well, people probably mostly just don't like being called murderers maybe? Although I have no idea if anyone is being confronted in that way or how often.
I'm not vegan, but I do really appreciate that they exist, because I have a milk allergy and so it is annoying how many "non-dairy" things actually have milk protein in it (which is precisely what I have a reaction to) and what non-dairy actually means is non-lactose. The fact that vegans exist generally gives me more options on things to buy and places to buy them. Although it is bothersome how much soy goes into those sorts of products, because anything other than soy protein (which most soy products in the US tend not to be made exclusively from, in my understanding) is something I have trouble digesting.
I guess it's just odd to me that folks are so easily offended. I mean, it's someone (someone not even involved in this conversation, just someone theoretically out there somewhere) calling you a word. In the craziest example brought up in this thread, it escalated to the level of slapping a fast food sandwich out of your hand. You get worse abuse than that if you wait 0.000001s after the light turns green to hit the gas around here.
It's like if I got mad at some old lady for wishing me a merry christmas because I'd walked past a screaming fundamentalist protestor earlier that day. And that's even a religion, with a fixed creed and tenets and all that, I have more reason to believe that little old lady shares the sentiments with the sign-waving street crazy than I do believing some rando going on a particular diet thinks I'm a monster because PETA does.
And that all leaves aside that PETA is basically just an outrage machine at this point. They've got an identical business strategy to the Westboro Baptist Church, they just try really hard to piss off a different crowd of people and bait them into doing something they can litigate.
folks on the internet are such snowflakes these days.
To be fair, I think all those month-long challenges are beyond stupid. This one is no different. If you're going to go vegan, go for it entirely. I applaud your motivations, even if I think that at best you're treating a symptom rather than the cause.
Doing it just for a month seems half-assed at best.
The entire point of Veganuary is that it's a short-term "introduction" designed entirely to show people who are reluctant to go vegan/plant-based (because yes there is a difference) that the reasons that they are reluctant are probably entirely overblown.
It's presented this way precisely because it is much easier to get people to make a commitment for a month rather than one that is duration indefinite, especially in a sight-unseen situation like this.
So you try it out for a single month and if, for whatever reason, you don't want to continue come February 1, you walk away.
Bran Dawri wrote: To be fair, I think all those month-long challenges are beyond stupid. This one is no different. If you're going to go vegan, go for it entirely. I applaud your motivations, even if I think that at best you're treating a symptom rather than the cause.
Doing it just for a month seems half-assed at best.
Maybe. But hey, I've been hitting a bit of a weight plateau lately and I want to kick off another losing phase over the winter where I don't care as much about muscle gains. So I'm stocking up on recipes and I'm gonna give it a shot, see how it compares to just the calorie control I've been doing so far. I'd love to drop down another 30 and hit 150lbs for the first time since...god, middle school?
the_scotsman wrote: I guess it's just odd to me that folks are so easily offended. I mean, it's someone (someone not even involved in this conversation, just someone theoretically out there somewhere) calling you a word. In the craziest example brought up in this thread, it escalated to the level of slapping a fast food sandwich out of your hand. You get worse abuse than that if you wait 0.000001s after the light turns green to hit the gas around here.
I guess. But this is the state of dialogue nowadays. People don't actually discuss things with other people, generally, it's just telling them how they are either explicitly wrong, or the speaker is explicitly right. I mean, it's not real surprising that people get offended when others say things meant to be offensive though. Sure, you could hear it and take an approach of non-offense, but then again, the other person could take the same approach in speaking to you. But this is dialogue today, predicated on (as Janet Yellen says) conflict, jargon, competition and outrage. That's what "sells" in the media, and in our media saturated lives, we implicitly do the same in most dialogue, "selling" our argument not to how we are arguing it to, but rather to everyone else listening.
It's sort of like virtue signaling, but also different. That's part the conflict/competition aspect. You have to say what "team" you are on, because the only thing worse than being on the wrong team is not being on a team at all. And that's how we now talk to each other all the time. it seems to me.
See, you've done it well right there. You got your "jargon" in there, with "snowflakes," you've got your implicit layer of "conflict" and "competition" (that it's could either be, internet vs "regular" (i guess) people, or "snowflakes" vs whatever the opposite it) along with the implied "outrage" at the paradigm itself. It's quite a dense little sentence there, give how much is packed in to so few words. And I think it excellently encapsulates the whole paradigm of "modern" discussion.
the_scotsman wrote: I guess it's just odd to me that folks are so easily offended. I mean, it's someone (someone not even involved in this conversation, just someone theoretically out there somewhere) calling you a word. In the craziest example brought up in this thread, it escalated to the level of slapping a fast food sandwich out of your hand. You get worse abuse than that if you wait 0.000001s after the light turns green to hit the gas around here.
I guess. But this is the state of dialogue nowadays. People don't actually discuss things with other people, generally, it's just telling them how they are either explicitly wrong, or the speaker is explicitly right. I mean, it's not real surprising that people get offended when others say things meant to be offensive though. Sure, you could hear it and take an approach of non-offense, but then again, the other person could take the same approach in speaking to you. But this is dialogue today, predicated on (as Janet Yellen says) conflict, jargon, competition and outrage. That's what "sells" in the media, and in our media saturated lives, we implicitly do the same in most dialogue, "selling" our argument not to how we are arguing it to, but rather to everyone else listening.
It's sort of like virtue signaling, but also different. That's part the conflict/competition aspect. You have to say what "team" you are on, because the only thing worse than being on the wrong team is not being on a team at all. And that's how we now talk to each other all the time. it seems to me.
See, you've done it well right there. You got your "jargon" in there, with "snowflakes," you've got your implicit layer of "conflict" and "competition" (that it's could either be, internet vs "regular" (i guess) people, or "snowflakes" vs whatever the opposite it) along with the implied "outrage" at the paradigm itself. It's quite a dense little sentence there, give how much is packed in to so few words. And I think it excellently encapsulates the whole paradigm of "modern" discussion.
Yeah, it was intended as a joke. One of the folks getting all offended by the idea of someone suggesting people try a particular diet for a month complained about "Snowflake culture" earlier in the thread.
If anything, going vegan for a month works better for one of those silly month-challenge deals because it's A) a lot of people are actually afraid to do/don't want to do and B ) would actually improve most peoples' diets by getting them to eat fewer calorie-dense foods.
Sure, I guess theoretically you could spend all of "Veganuary" eating french fries and oreos, but I feel like you'd probably get bored.
Unlike not thrashing your doodler for a month, which is really just a meaningless "can I willpower" thing. If you're going to do a monthlong challenge, why not do something that might give you good habits?
There's an open question as to whether Oreos are vegan. They're definitely plant-based, but with the Palm Oil content many people - myself included - feel they're disqualified from being vegan.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, it was intended as a joke. One of the folks getting all offended by the idea of someone suggesting people try a particular diet for a month complained about "Snowflake culture" earlier in the thread.
If anything, going vegan for a month works better for one of those silly month-challenge deals because it's A) a lot of people are actually afraid to do/don't want to do and B ) would actually improve most peoples' diets by getting them to eat fewer calorie-dense foods.
I get it, just pointing out how even just lampooning it can sort of contribute to the paradigm. I guess I just sort of imagine it how 4chan started (and still mostly is) a joke, but the jokes all too often tend to be taken as real by someone. And that's the descent into the extremes in a nutshell, probably, or so it sort of seems to me.
However, I do agree with the notion about less calorie-dense foods. Unfortunately for me, I have fructose malabsorption, so many vegetables are something of a digestive problem for me. Luckily, I've been able to maintain a fairly healthy diet still, even though I am pretty sure I still have too much sugar, despite dialing way back in the last year or so.
If Vegans are the extreme of vegetarianism, then I am at the exact polar opposite of that. I am a meatitarian. Veggies are a side dish that I rarely bother with (Although potatoes baked or mashed are tasty). I eat meat for every meal. Mostly steak, be it prime rib, porterhouse, T-bone, or the occasional filet mignon... I try to stay away from french foods though... I want to win the next war we fight, not drop our guns and capitulate.
People are free to do as they see fit, however I find it fairly humorous that it is usually the extremist people that want to try and force everyone else to bend to their way of life. I have yet to read a post that starts off with "Red meat and you ... the farmers had it all wrong!"
Not really trying to flame anyone here but I am honestly tired of being told what to do and how to live my life by people other than my doctor. Are you a Vegan? You are... well good for you. Am I... not a chance sweetheart, if there is a God he put omnivore teeth in my skull for a reason. I fully intend to eat the most reliable calories, that taste good to me, and I am well aware of how it was raised and taken care of. I speak of how the cattle were raised, but that also applies to how grain is raised as well. Do you know what pesticides were used on the grains you are ingesting? I don't because I can not source that kind of stuff local. The cows that I eat.... that is a different story. I know what antibiotics were given to them and that no a single one was ever popped with steroids. The same can not be said about grains... they are genetically altering grains and honestly it wiggs me out. That is why I could never be a vegan. That and Prime rib is, well... Prime.
OIIIIIIO wrote: If Vegans are the extreme of vegetarianism, then I am at the exact polar opposite of that. I am a meatitarian. Veggies are a side dish that I rarely bother with (Although potatoes baked or mashed are tasty). I eat meat for every meal. Mostly steak, be it prime rib, porterhouse, T-bone, or the occasional filet mignon... I try to stay away from french foods though... I want to win the next war we fight, not drop our guns and capitulate.
People are free to do as they see fit, however I find it fairly humorous that it is usually the extremist people that want to try and force everyone else to bend to their way of life. I have yet to read a post that starts off with "Red meat and you ... the farmers had it all wrong!"
Not really trying to flame anyone here but I am honestly tired of being told what to do and how to live my life by people other than my doctor. Are you a Vegan? You are... well good for you. Am I... not a chance sweetheart, if there is a God he put omnivore teeth in my skull for a reason. I fully intend to eat the most reliable calories, that taste good to me, and I am well aware of how it was raised and taken care of. I speak of how the cattle were raised, but that also applies to how grain is raised as well. Do you know what pesticides were used on the grains you are ingesting? I don't because I can not source that kind of stuff local. The cows that I eat.... that is a different story. I know what antibiotics were given to them and that no a single one was ever popped with steroids. The same can not be said about grains... they are genetically altering grains and honestly it wiggs me out. That is why I could never be a vegan. That and Prime rib is, well... Prime.
Not trying to flame anyone, but leads with xenophobia, progresses to Luddism and anti-science and then invents magic cows who don't eat grain and haven't been genetically-modified by humans.
So let's go with a more constructive tack, shall we? Were I hypothetically to try this veganuary thing, I've got a 9 and a 6 year old. What are some vegan meals that would be appealing to kids, or that you've had success with and of course- are cheap?
Gitzbitah wrote: So let's go with a more constructive tack, shall we? Were I hypothetically to try this veganuary thing, I've got a 9 and a 6 year old. What are some vegan meals that would be appealing to kids, or that you've had success with and of course- are cheap?
What do they like?
We’ve had luck reducing our meat content using vegetable soups with lots of beans and maybe mushrooms (we let the kid choose and add spices. It helps him feel invested in the meal.). Spaghetti squash with red sauce, cheese, black olives and sautéed zucchini tastes enough like spaghetti for our kid. Stir fry with lots of different types of veggies, and kid-chosen spices/sauce is pretty easy. Baked sweet potato with cheese and fake bacon bits is tasty sometimes. Fajita veggie burritos can trick the taste buds. Veggie egg rolls or falafels sometimes work. Would your kids eat a hummus and cheese sandwich?
Generally, we tend to add fish or turkey or beef to one meal a day, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oops, just realized you said vegan and not vegetarian.
Gitzbitah wrote: So let's go with a more constructive tack, shall we? Were I hypothetically to try this veganuary thing, I've got a 9 and a 6 year old. What are some vegan meals that would be appealing to kids, or that you've had success with and of course- are cheap?
Based on my own picky brother growing up:
Katsu or Coconut based curry would provably be popular, especially with crispy fried tofu with Panko breadcrumbs. I know a few of parents who have sneakily swapped out the usual dinosaur chicken nuggets for slices of fried tofu with breadcrumbs and the kids either don't notice or like them better. I know I would. Coconut curry is good with sweet potatoes, carrots, gold potatoes, and mushrooms (though for kids you'd probably skip those). For Katsu curry you can chop mushrooms super finely and put them in the sauce with onions and potatoes and it just goes over the rice.
There's the obvious stuff like french fries, baked potatoes, peanut butter and jelly, baby carrots, corn on the cob etc you can still do.
I tried vegan tacos with some seitan chorizo, beans, corn, and a vegan version of the powdery Mexican cheese that actually tasted better than the stuff I usually buy. That was a good cheap meal.
Black bean burgers with ketchup would probably be good.
My brother would eat chili, as long as there weren't big tomato chunks in there, so a bean chili would be easy to do.
I feel like the challenge is probably not going to be making it cheap but getting kids to eat it. When i go grocery shopping on the weeks ive been doing vegetarian stuff its been way cheaper than when i buy meat. Maybe i just buy too expensive meat.
I don't know if I'd try doing vegan with kids. Working in vegetarian stuff would probably go over much better and get them to eat more than just chicken nuggets and burgers.
Excommunicatus wrote: Can you link me to the interview wherein they shared their motivations?
'Cause I can see you deplore 'snowflake' culture, so I know you're definitely not making stuff up that you can get all self-righteous and ranty about.
I even faked the 1 hour vlog in English by the organizers that I already linked to, huh, and you're definitely not ignoring any evidence that doesn't support your own views.
The one that does not in any way shape or form agree with you as to their motivations? Because, for clarity, I don't dispute that the protest happened; I dispute the motivations that YOU attributed to the protestors and that you cannot support in any factual manner.
So you are in fact making things up so that you can get offended by them. There is a term used to describe people like that. It momentarily escapes me.
Ah, I see now. You want me to find a statement from vegans saying they do it to feel superior to the rest of us? While I'm sure I could find a handful of such admissions in the vastness of the internet, most people aren't so in tune with their core motivations that they would put them in their cult's manifesto.
Why take part in Veganuary? Well, why not?
There are so many reasons people decide to try vegan.
For most, a love of animals is the catalyst. Some people want to feel better about themselves and the impact they make on the world. Others would like to set themselves a challenge, and many combine Veganuary with their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ and see trying vegan as the healthiest start to the year. Whatever your reason, we’re here to support you.
So try vegan for a month and discover a whole new world of taste and flavour. We guarantee that, by the end of the month, you’ll feel fantastic!
Excommunicatus wrote:There's an open question as to whether Oreos are vegan. They're definitely plant-based, but with the Palm Oil content many people - myself included - feel they're disqualified from being vegan.
And here's the real issue. Veganism isn't a vegetarian diet. If you're simply dropping meat, you're dropping meat. If you're excluding any product even remotely involving the use/abuse/harm of animals, it suddenly becomes much more than a month of dietary change with "nothing to lose". Does the person going vegan for a month have to stick their animal-unfriendly clothing items and products in storage for all of January, or do they need to purge them? An ethical standpoint isn't temporary, so claiming anyone is "going vegan" for one month because they follow PETA's food list is about as disingenuous as it gets.
Excommunicatus wrote:
OIIIIIIO wrote: If Vegans are the extreme of vegetarianism, then I am at the exact polar opposite of that. I am a meatitarian. Veggies are a side dish that I rarely bother with (Although potatoes baked or mashed are tasty). I eat meat for every meal. Mostly steak, be it prime rib, porterhouse, T-bone, or the occasional filet mignon... I try to stay away from french foods though... I want to win the next war we fight, not drop our guns and capitulate.
People are free to do as they see fit, however I find it fairly humorous that it is usually the extremist people that want to try and force everyone else to bend to their way of life. I have yet to read a post that starts off with "Red meat and you ... the farmers had it all wrong!"
Not really trying to flame anyone here but I am honestly tired of being told what to do and how to live my life by people other than my doctor. Are you a Vegan? You are... well good for you. Am I... not a chance sweetheart, if there is a God he put omnivore teeth in my skull for a reason. I fully intend to eat the most reliable calories, that taste good to me, and I am well aware of how it was raised and taken care of. I speak of how the cattle were raised, but that also applies to how grain is raised as well. Do you know what pesticides were used on the grains you are ingesting? I don't because I can not source that kind of stuff local. The cows that I eat.... that is a different story. I know what antibiotics were given to them and that no a single one was ever popped with steroids. The same can not be said about grains... they are genetically altering grains and honestly it wiggs me out. That is why I could never be a vegan. That and Prime rib is, well... Prime.
Not trying to flame anyone, but leads with xenophobia, progresses to Luddism and anti-science and then invents magic cows who don't eat grain and haven't been genetically-modified by humans.
Thanks for coming out.
Starting with no evidence of any xenophobia whatever, progresses to accusations of Luddism because it is convenient, dismissing anything that goes against your rhetoric as anti-science, then conveniently somehow forgets localized sustainable non-GMO farming practices.
Thanks for showing your true colors.
Excommunicatus wrote:Dried beans cost literal pennies and last for months and months, correctly stored.
Ditto vital wheat gluten, TVP, tofu, tempeh...
Swing and a miss.
... and fruits and vegetables, which is the staple of where you get your nutrients in a vegan diet.
Oh, wait. So those ARE perishable and not as easy to store as processed foods, up to and including beans, rice, etc...
Swing and a miss.
The problem with your entire thread is that you come in from a position of moral superiority, and are condescendingly dismissive of anyone with counterpoints or alternative options to your "superior" lifestyle. Until that hump is crossed, this is nothing more than "the first hit is free".
Not a Vegan or a vegetarian but regarding perishables I make a load of fresh sauces for pasta and curries and make soups which I freeze or keep in the fridge.
I freeze 'smoothie'fruits and purees for later use.
Ditto with complete meals.
Apples and bannas? come on. the most popular fruits last for ages (even organic ones)
Veg? basics such as carrots last a fairly long while in the fridge.
And are we saying that fresh meats and fish are not perishable?
Excommunicatus wrote:There's an open question as to whether Oreos are vegan. They're definitely plant-based, but with the Palm Oil content many people - myself included - feel they're disqualified from being vegan.
And here's the real issue. Veganism isn't a vegetarian diet. If you're simply dropping meat, you're dropping meat. If you're excluding any product even remotely involving the use/abuse/harm of animals, it suddenly becomes much more than a month of dietary change with "nothing to lose". Does the person going vegan for a month have to stick their animal-unfriendly clothing items and products in storage for all of January, or do they need to purge them? An ethical standpoint isn't temporary, so claiming anyone is "going vegan" for one month because they follow PETA's food list is about as disingenuous as it gets.
Excommunicatus wrote:
OIIIIIIO wrote: If Vegans are the extreme of vegetarianism, then I am at the exact polar opposite of that. I am a meatitarian. Veggies are a side dish that I rarely bother with (Although potatoes baked or mashed are tasty). I eat meat for every meal. Mostly steak, be it prime rib, porterhouse, T-bone, or the occasional filet mignon... I try to stay away from french foods though... I want to win the next war we fight, not drop our guns and capitulate.
People are free to do as they see fit, however I find it fairly humorous that it is usually the extremist people that want to try and force everyone else to bend to their way of life. I have yet to read a post that starts off with "Red meat and you ... the farmers had it all wrong!"
Not really trying to flame anyone here but I am honestly tired of being told what to do and how to live my life by people other than my doctor. Are you a Vegan? You are... well good for you. Am I... not a chance sweetheart, if there is a God he put omnivore teeth in my skull for a reason. I fully intend to eat the most reliable calories, that taste good to me, and I am well aware of how it was raised and taken care of. I speak of how the cattle were raised, but that also applies to how grain is raised as well. Do you know what pesticides were used on the grains you are ingesting? I don't because I can not source that kind of stuff local. The cows that I eat.... that is a different story. I know what antibiotics were given to them and that no a single one was ever popped with steroids. The same can not be said about grains... they are genetically altering grains and honestly it wiggs me out. That is why I could never be a vegan. That and Prime rib is, well... Prime.
Not trying to flame anyone, but leads with xenophobia, progresses to Luddism and anti-science and then invents magic cows who don't eat grain and haven't been genetically-modified by humans.
Thanks for coming out.
Starting with no evidence of any xenophobia whatever, progresses to accusations of Luddism because it is convenient, dismissing anything that goes against your rhetoric as anti-science, then conveniently somehow forgets localized sustainable non-GMO farming practices.
Thanks for showing your true colors.
Excommunicatus wrote:Dried beans cost literal pennies and last for months and months, correctly stored.
Ditto vital wheat gluten, TVP, tofu, tempeh...
Swing and a miss.
... and fruits and vegetables, which is the staple of where you get your nutrients in a vegan diet.
Oh, wait. So those ARE perishable and not as easy to store as processed foods, up to and including beans, rice, etc...
Swing and a miss.
The problem with your entire thread is that you come in from a position of moral superiority, and are condescendingly dismissive of anyone with counterpoints or alternative options to your "superior" lifestyle. Until that hump is crossed, this is nothing more than "the first hit is free".
Unlike You SJWs I'm Not Offended And Don't Care At All: A Novella
I am condescendingly dismissive of people who make things up, who make 'arguments' that have already been dealt with and who ignore basic logic to make their inane and banal points.
It's simply unfortunate that all three apply to you. Fresh fruits and vegetables are not where my staple nutrients come from, but do feel free to pretend you know how a vegan diet works better than a person who has been vegan for six years (nearly) does.
EDIT - Veganuary promotes a vegan/plant-based diet. That's what you try for a month.
It's perfectly possible to follow a vegan diet and not be vegan. That's what being 'plant-based' is.
A friend of mine buys a bunch of fresh veggies, blends them into a thick paste, and then freezes them. He’ll add a cup or so to every sauce or meal.
Excommunicatis, I would like to hear more about some of the vegan staples you brought up, like what “store properly” even means. I’ve never eaten (perhaps never even seen for sale) some of those items, so a quick sketch of how they are prepared or which meals they compliment would be appreciated. Also, would you be willing to talk about the preparation and storage of veggies most of us likely already have heard of and often buy? (I would love some ideas on storing fresh veggies longer than 5 days besides just freezing them.). Maybe meet us halfway on some of these points, Mr ambassador of Veganuary?
If you want to follow a Vegan diet and not be Vegan, then just say that you’re eating a plant-based diet. There is no reason to use the term “Vegan” if you’re not Vegan unless you’re going for the moral superiority that comes with looking down at people and being this guy:
Most basic definitions of Vegan include the extensive lifestyle modification that comes with avoiding any animal cruelty:
Spoiler:
I hope everyone is posting from their cruelty free humanely sources rare earth mineral computers.
Yeah, my opinions were not sought before they named it Veganuary. Sorry, I guess.
I can't for the life of me fathom why an event that takes place in January and promotes a vegan diet is called 'Veganuary', but marketing was never really my thing.
And of course, the semantics of the thing are crucial and fatal to the wider point.
----------------------------------------------
Dried beans and lentils - I reckon these kinda speak for themselves. Store somewhere cool and dry. I use glass jars but they aren't necessary, just aesthetic. I mostly use them in chilis, burgers, soups, meatballs (with seitan), pasta dishes. At a very fundamental level, they're my replacement for ground/minced, chopped or diced meats.
Vital wheat gluten - Store it like you would regular flour. Use it to make seitan, with which you can make many things. I typically use it to make meatballs (with lentils), meatloaf, sausages, steaks, roasts. It's more labour-intensive than the beans - especially if you don't have access to a pressure-cooker - and clean up can be a bit of a ballache, frankly.
Tofu - is terrible stuff by itself and needs to be marinated at a minimum. Silken tofu is, IMO, useless for making anything but vegan cream (blend it with melted vegan margarine and maple syrup) and 'pudding' style desserts. Medium tofu is only good for scramble. Firm tofu needs to be frozen and defrosted before being used and - again - marinated heavily. I use it as a replacement for diced meat. It'll last for up to a year frozen.
Jackfruit (young, in brine) I basically only ever use to make pulled 'pork', or in curries. I use Banana blooms and kelp-flakes to scratch the fish and chip urge inherent to growing up in the north of England. Both come in tins.
I'd recommend The Seitan Appreciation Society, What Broke Vegans Eat and What Fat Vegans Eat, all on that there Facebook that they have now.
Seitan
"The Bottom Line
Seitan is a popular vegan protein source made from wheat gluten and water.
It is high in protein and is a good source of minerals like selenium and iron.
Seitan is a great option for vegans who cannot eat soy, since other popular vegan foods, such as tofu and tempeh, are soy-based.
However, anyone who cannot tolerate wheat or gluten, including those with sensitivities, allergies or celiac disease, must strictly avoid seitan to avoid serious side effects.
It is also important to note that seitan is a highly processed food and can be high in sodium when purchased pre-made.
Moreover, there is some concern that gluten may contribute to “leaky gut,” increasing the risk of food sensitivities and autoimmune diseases, but more research is needed.
Overall, it seems that seitan may be a good food choice for some people but can cause unpleasant symptoms in others.
Until more about how gluten impacts the gut and immune system is understood, it is wise to listen to your body and let how you feel guide your food choices."
Why take part in Veganuary? Well, why not?
There are so many reasons people decide to try vegan.
For most, a love of animals is the catalyst. Some people want to feel better about themselves and the impact they make on the world. Others would like to set themselves a challenge, and many combine Veganuary with their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ and see trying vegan as the healthiest start to the year. Whatever your reason, we’re here to support you.
So try vegan for a month and discover a whole new world of taste and flavour. We guarantee that, by the end of the month, you’ll feel fantastic!
Except for the MASSIVE cost and difficulty in storage of quickly perishing goods.
Wait, in your head are vegetables and fruits in general MORE perishable than meat and cheese? Because I often feel like if I mess around with my meal plan just a little bit on the fly, my meats go bad in the fridge. And you can generally still saute a wilty vegetable or revive it by sticking it in water for a bit if you're a dummy and you leave it out and it gets a bit wrinkly. Can't do that with chicken that gets that stank.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
d-usa wrote: If you want to follow a Vegan diet and not be Vegan, then just say that you’re eating a plant-based diet. There is no reason to use the term “Vegan” if you’re not Vegan unless you’re going for the moral superiority that comes with looking down at people and being this guy:
Most basic definitions of Vegan include the extensive lifestyle modification that comes with avoiding any animal cruelty:
[spoiler]
I hope everyone is posting from their cruelty free humanely sources rare earth mineral computers.
[/spoiler]
Wow gak dawg, you actually managed to make an "Um, Askshually" post where you MAKE FUN OF THAT GUY DOING THAT.
Your post is literally "Um Ackshually, You're Just Eating a Plant Diet, According to the Vegan Bible You Can't Call it Vegan".
Vegan is a word with a commonly understood definition of "not eating any food that involves animal products."
This is no different from any other Um Ackshually argument where you claim someone can't call themselves feminist unless they want to kill all men, can't call themselves Libertarian unless they're actively in prison for not paying taxes, can't call themselves socialist unless they're mailing the government 90% of their paycheck voluntarily, can't call themselves christian unless they believe the specific tenets of the third baptist church of wallamazoo (don't even get me STARTED on the heretics over at the FOURTH baptist church of wallamazoo, SPLITTERS!).
At this point I'm just going to start asserting there's something wrong with the people taking offense to this idea existing. And that's as someone with no intention of stopping eating meat. This, and a great many other things that I'm sure also offend you are not about absolutes, but general harm reduction. But I can't go into that, because that would be politics. Apparently unlike the rest of the posts here?
Vegan, Vegetarian and a wide variety there in are diets. They don't need to be tied into the political angle of all of this. They are not inherently tied into this. Eating less meat for a couple of days is the only thing inherently tied into this.
You know what the op of this thread did to me, It made me wonder if I could dig up the mushroom scallion noodle recipe that a local noodle place made for a while. It brought up the funny memory that they thought I was vegetarian and warned me before giving me something with pork broth because in the prior three months of being a regular I ate nothing with meat in it. Without realizing it. It was all quite good. There was no instinct to attack there, just an offhand thought that hey, there's some good vegetarian dishes I'm aware of, maybe I should make some.
My fat ass is hardly vegetarian let alone vegan, but there's little inherently wrong with this. Get off your political hobby horses and let the guy offer up his ideas. Stop and consider why you're so offended by this. He isn't demanding people feed babies nothing but vegan foods till they die, he's making a suggestion to theoretically functioning adults.
A quick note to OP, while it wouldn't help much here, a couple good recipes on a sliding scale of vegetarian often go a long way. If I dig up the recipe I'm looking for I'll toss it in here.
FWIW I'm not male, Veganuary isn't *at all* my idea and I am in no way shape or form trying to present it as such.
I'm trying to resist providing anything beyond quite broad and general advice because I want people to click through to the Veganuary site, which has lists of "accidentally vegan" products, recipes and all of that stuff.
Though, granted, explicitly mentioning that earlier would have been useful
Wait, in your head are vegetables and fruits in general MORE perishable than meat and cheese? Because I often feel like if I mess around with my meal plan just a little bit on the fly, my meats go bad in the fridge. And you can generally still saute a wilty vegetable or revive it by sticking it in water for a bit if you're a dummy and you leave it out and it gets a bit wrinkly. Can't do that with chicken that gets that stank.
Yes.
Because meat can come in tins.
I live off just over £260 a month.
No way in hell am I buying fresh meat unless I'm eating it on the day.
I have no fridge space either so that also makes it a no no.
It's why it's funny you get people telling you to try living off a plant based diet and automatically assume you own a proper fridge or freezer.
When all I own is a wooden cupboard that fell off the wall.
Excommunicatus wrote: Dried beans cost literal pennies and last for months and months, correctly stored.
Ditto vital wheat gluten, TVP, tofu, tempeh...
Swing and a miss.
Holy gak dried beans! That sounds so amazingly exciting!
no idea what TVP is.
Never seen Tofu in Aldi, Lidl or Asda.
No idea what Tempeh is.
Are any foodstuffs that last for months or years exciting in isolation?
Lidl and Asda both sell a bunch of cauldron brand tofu things.
The rest of this is just laughable. 'Hey, person advocating a diet that is new to me, your suggestions are worthless unless they're things with which I am already familiar!'
Folks know those of us who don't want to follow vegetarian or vegan diets aren't obliged to grasp at straws for reasons why, right? We can just say that we don't want to. Or say nothing. Wild.
ITT people getting pissy about other peoples dietary chocies because they feel judged.
Look, a vegan diet actually is pretty damn ethically defensible, a lot more than a meat based diet.
For reasons of animal cruelty, sure, but more importantly for pure sustainability reasons. Land use is the number one reason why meat agriculture is bad. The amount of land cleared for beef agriculture is an ecological catastrophe on a massive scale.
Reducing meat intake is a morally good act for that reason alone. Trying out some of the non-meat options for diet is not gonna kill anyone who does not have a medically mandated diet anyway. Getting defensive about it just shows that you don't like to consider your day to day actions on an ethical scale.
And you know what, that is fine. But you don't have to piss all over people making a different choice to you. And a vegan saying "Hey maybe try it!" is not a personal attack on you.
The fires being set in the Amazon Basin are to clear land for soybeans, since the demand for soy products keeps increasing.
In the U.S., and other parts of the world, most of the land used in raising meat is not suitable for crops.
As for myself, I have a friend with a farm where they raise meat animals for me. I buy them at auction, my friend raises them, we slaughter them and process them together. I have a freezer full of such: Beef, Mutton, Pork, Poultry.
I also am medically required to have a more meat centric diet. Prescribed by a doctor, monitored by both a dietitian and a nutritionist.
Check with your own doctors before making any radical changes to your diet.
helgrenze wrote:
Overall, it seems that seitan may be a good food choice for some people but can cause unpleasant symptoms in others.
Until more about how gluten impacts the gut and immune system is understood, it is wise to listen to your body and let how you feel guide your food choices."
The first sentence is true of pretty much every food. The second is relevant to a whole gamut of foodstuffs that are staples in omnivorous diets. Fair enough if you want to argue for low gluten diets but it's not really a rebuttal of veganism.
helgrenze wrote:The fires being set in the Amazon Basin are to clear land for soybeans, since the demand for soy products keeps increasing.
In the U.S., and other parts of the world, most of the land used in raising meat is not suitable for crops.
Some are. It's hard to put numbers on how much is being done for which reasons, but the prevention of US soy beans being exported to China has definitely created an opportunity for South American farmers. Fires remain several times more common in cattle farming areas than the reat of the Amazon, however.
That aside, why do people insist on reading 'maybe trying a vegan diet for a month would be of interest' as 'veganism is morally superior. Prove me wrong'?
It is absolutely not true that forest clearance is mostly for soybeans, but EVEN IF IT WAS, you get more useful calories per acre of soybeans (an order of magnitude more!) than you do per acre of beef grazing ground. A lot of crops that are grown are grown in any case to be used as feed for cattle in sheds, and it is a pure fact of thermodynamics that this results in wasted energy. A cows digestive system just is not efficient, so you end up using a lot more land per kilo of beef than the equivalently nutritious amountof soy beans
If you need meat in your diet for medical reasons, fine. Who is judging you for that? That is totally reasonable. Hell, I am not even saying "Eat no meat you terrible people", but just "Hey, maybe eating less meat would be good, and trying vegan food to see if you like it might be a good step on that road"
Edited to correc that I said a kilo of beef and a kilo of soy are as nutritious as each other!
Try more plant based foods makes a hell of a lot more sense and is a lot more feasible and comes with a lot less baggage than “try more vegan food” though.
Vegan is a loaded term to begin with and it is a term with a definition that not even vegans agree on, and it is being used in ways that don’t really mean much of anything.
If I’m eating a plant based diet while wearing my shoes with leather uppers, am I vegan?
Nah, I’m good.
It’s not tasty. And it’s more inconvenient in both: eating outside and cooking for yourself. The variation is also lacking compared to a non restricted diet. And balancing it something I’ll have to spend extra time on, which is not something I’d enjoy.
And, personally, I find veganism an absolute twaddle.
How about you don’t listen to your favorite genre of music for a month? There is no downside.
Or don’t use a smartphone. Or don’t eat anything sweet. Or don’t have sex. Or meditate for half an hour every day. Or don’t celebrate anything for a year. Again, there really is no downside.
ValentineGames wrote: It's why it's funny you get people telling you to try living off a plant based diet and automatically assume you own a proper fridge or freezer.
When all I own is a wooden cupboard that fell off the wall.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say the vast majority of people have either a fridge or freezer and that your situation is in fact the outlier, not the norm.
Of course, if the overwhelming number of posters here do in fact also only have exclusively non-temperature-controlled wooden boxes to store their food in, speak up; I would consider myself corrected.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: Nah, I’m good.
It’s not tasty. And it’s more inconvenient in both: eating outside and cooking for yourself. The variation is also lacking compared to a non restricted diet. And balancing it something I’ll have to spend extra time on, which is not something I’d enjoy.
And, personally, I find veganism an absolute twaddle.
How about you don’t listen to your favorite genre of music for a month? There is no downside.
Or don’t use a smartphone. Or don’t eat anything sweet. Or don’t have sex. Or meditate for half an hour every day. Or don’t celebrate anything for a year. Again, there really is no downside.
OIIIIIIO wrote: If Vegans are the extreme of vegetarianism, then I am at the exact polar opposite of that. I am a meatitarian. Veggies are a side dish that I rarely bother with (Although potatoes baked or mashed are tasty). I eat meat for every meal. Mostly steak, be it prime rib, porterhouse, T-bone, or the occasional filet mignon... I try to stay away from french foods though... I want to win the next war we fight, not drop our guns and capitulate.
People are free to do as they see fit, however I find it fairly humorous that it is usually the extremist people that want to try and force everyone else to bend to their way of life. I have yet to read a post that starts off with "Red meat and you ... the farmers had it all wrong!"
Not really trying to flame anyone here but I am honestly tired of being told what to do and how to live my life by people other than my doctor. Are you a Vegan? You are... well good for you. Am I... not a chance sweetheart, if there is a God he put omnivore teeth in my skull for a reason. I fully intend to eat the most reliable calories, that taste good to me, and I am well aware of how it was raised and taken care of. I speak of how the cattle were raised, but that also applies to how grain is raised as well. Do you know what pesticides were used on the grains you are ingesting? I don't because I can not source that kind of stuff local. The cows that I eat.... that is a different story. I know what antibiotics were given to them and that no a single one was ever popped with steroids. The same can not be said about grains... they are genetically altering grains and honestly it wiggs me out. That is why I could never be a vegan. That and Prime rib is, well... Prime.
Not trying to flame anyone, but leads with xenophobia, progresses to Luddism and anti-science and then invents magic cows who don't eat grain and haven't been genetically-modified by humans.
Thanks for coming out.
Yeah... think you might want to research what some of those terms actually mean.
Xenophobia... not so much, as that means a dislike or prejudice of people from other countries. I am an American, we welcome all people from all cultures.
Luddism... not so much as well, Luddites oppose the use of technology. I am using a computer to communicate to other people throughout the world via the internet. I do not dislike technology, quite the opposite. What I have a problem with is gene splicing plants and animals that people consume. Think of that what you will, I really don't care, but I will limit my intake of GMO food because I think that there will be problems down the road with that.
Magic cows.... Your reading comprehension is either incredibly low or you are willfully ignorant. I never said that the cows did not eat grain, they have not been genetically modified by humans, to be sure. The particular herd that we select for slaughter have actually been very carefully tended for over 90 years. I know everything that has ever happened to those cattle as I can see them in the pasture from my back yard. I know the rancher that raises them and how he does business. I really do appreciate your hand wave dismissal of facts that do not fit your narrative. And on that note... good luck in life, you are going to need it.
This one sounds super terrible for you. Half an hour spent centering yourself and examining your mental and emotional state from a detached position? feth, that sounds awful. Might even help your posture, how bad would that be?
ValentineGames wrote: It's why it's funny you get people telling you to try living off a plant based diet and automatically assume you own a proper fridge or freezer.
When all I own is a wooden cupboard that fell off the wall.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say the vast majority of people have either a fridge or freezer and that your situation is in fact the outlier, not the norm.
Of course, if the overwhelming number of posters here do in fact also only have exclusively non-temperature-controlled wooden boxes to store their food in, speak up; I would consider myself corrected.
Also, I love where the "meat always tastes better" argument goes when you're talking exclusively about tinned meat.
I have never eaten meat out of a tin that didn't make me feel like I was eating dog food. You've got jerky, and that is it, IMO.
If you made me eat food without a fridge for a month, I would be 100% vegan except for eggs, most likely. Tinned meat, jesus.
Also, how hard is it to plan your meals out for a week such that you can't buy any fresh vegetables for yourself to add to your meals? There aren't that many vegetables that will literally go bad within a day or two of getting them, especially not if you grab them unripe from the store.
Either way, first day of veganuary went pretty good. crispy tofu with panko breadcrumbs and fried rice with teriyaki and mushrooms. Total cost 5.50 for each of us, not counting the fraction of the bag of breadcrumbs, oil, and sauces and spices we used.
OIIIIIIO wrote: If Vegans are the extreme of vegetarianism, then I am at the exact polar opposite of that. I am a meatitarian. Veggies are a side dish that I rarely bother with (Although potatoes baked or mashed are tasty). I eat meat for every meal. Mostly steak, be it prime rib, porterhouse, T-bone, or the occasional filet mignon... I try to stay away from french foods though... I want to win the next war we fight, not drop our guns and capitulate.
People are free to do as they see fit, however I find it fairly humorous that it is usually the extremist people that want to try and force everyone else to bend to their way of life. I have yet to read a post that starts off with "Red meat and you ... the farmers had it all wrong!"
Not really trying to flame anyone here but I am honestly tired of being told what to do and how to live my life by people other than my doctor. Are you a Vegan? You are... well good for you. Am I... not a chance sweetheart, if there is a God he put omnivore teeth in my skull for a reason. I fully intend to eat the most reliable calories, that taste good to me, and I am well aware of how it was raised and taken care of. I speak of how the cattle were raised, but that also applies to how grain is raised as well. Do you know what pesticides were used on the grains you are ingesting? I don't because I can not source that kind of stuff local. The cows that I eat.... that is a different story. I know what antibiotics were given to them and that no a single one was ever popped with steroids. The same can not be said about grains... they are genetically altering grains and honestly it wiggs me out. That is why I could never be a vegan. That and Prime rib is, well... Prime.
Not trying to flame anyone, but leads with xenophobia, progresses to Luddism and anti-science and then invents magic cows who don't eat grain and haven't been genetically-modified by humans.
Thanks for coming out.
Yeah... think you might want to research what some of those terms actually mean.
Xenophobia... not so much, as that means a dislike or prejudice of people from other countries. I am an American, we welcome all people from all cultures.
In the strictest sense it's a fear, dislike, or distrust of anything alien, and you certainly seen pretty hostile to veganism.
That said, your first paragraph ends with a xenophobic caricature of French people.
What is it you think is a problem here? His arguing that he was sacked for his veganism? That certainly seems not to be the case but misleading dismissal cases are hardly rare or unique to any demographic.
Is it that he's seeking to have veganism protected as a belief? Why doesn't it qualify and in what ways would this recognition be a problem?
Heh, that's pretty funny. Honestly, though, this is kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn't it? All my friends who are lawyers say that pretty much half of the money we as a society spend on having a legal system is spent dealing with delusional overly litigious types who are willing to spend all their money on unimaginably stupid legal battles, and there's only so fast the legislature can dismiss them.
The only reason you hear about this guy and not Carol Spurnbongler's nineteenth attempt to sue her landlord because she's certain he's sending trained pigeons to poop on her car is because people love to hate vegans. They're an easy societal boogeyman and "Vegan sues business because he says Veganism is a religion!!!" is a great way to get clicks.
What is it you think is a problem here? His arguing that he was sacked for his veganism? That certainly seems not to be the case but misleading dismissal cases are hardly rare or unique to any demographic.
Is it that he's seeking to have veganism protected as a belief? Why doesn't it qualify and in what ways would this recognition be a problem?
Well, let's see, replace the word "Vegan" in that article with "Buddhist" and replace Johnny Punchableface McClickbait with an older asian dude, and see if you think it would be immoral to fire someone for that belief.
ValentineGames wrote: It's why it's funny you get people telling you to try living off a plant based diet and automatically assume you own a proper fridge or freezer.
When all I own is a wooden cupboard that fell off the wall.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say the vast majority of people have either a fridge or freezer and that your situation is in fact the outlier, not the norm.
Of course, if the overwhelming number of posters here do in fact also only have exclusively non-temperature-controlled wooden boxes to store their food in, speak up; I would consider myself corrected.
We hang our meat strips in the salt cave. If we leave them in there for more than theee days, we have to burn the bear paste and scream the demons out of the meat before we feast.
What is it you think is a problem here? His arguing that he was sacked for his veganism? That certainly seems not to be the case but misleading dismissal cases are hardly rare or unique to any demographic.
Is it that he's seeking to have veganism protected as a belief? Why doesn't it qualify and in what ways would this recognition be a problem?
Well, let's see, replace the word "Vegan" in that article with "Buddhist" and replace Johnny Punchableface McClickbait with an older asian dude, and see if you think it would be immoral to fire someone for that belief.
Errr, I'm not sure you've caught the meaning of my post. I thought the context made the point of the questions clear, but if not: I'm asking if helgrenze has a problem with veganism being protected as a belief and if so, why, because I think it's fine.
Don't forget the vegan lady that sued her neighbors for grilling in their own back yard.
The ones that then went full vengeance and had a giant BBQ full of meat where all kinds of people showed up to grill more meat for the sole reason of pissing the vegan lady off?
Or the people contributing to worldwide ecological collapse because they have internalised that eating meat is manly and are so insecure in their masculinity that they have to make a big deal out of it to let everyone know how red blooded they are!
If that is a case of cross contamination (e.g the impossible burger was cooked on the same grill as meat ones) then that is very much a valid complaint. An impossible burger covered in beef fat is not vegetarian/vegan. Selling it as such is false advertising.
But by all means, don't let facts and context get in the way of your outrage seeking.
Don't forget the vegan lady that sued her neighbors for grilling in their own back yard.
The ones that then went full vengeance and had a giant BBQ full of meat where all kinds of people showed up to grill more meat for the sole reason of pissing the vegan lady off?
Being a crap human being comes in many forms.
Man, people really are so caught up in this new millennial cancel culture. Snowflakes.
Small claims courts around the world deal with THOUSANDS of inordinately petty neighborly disputes per day.
Again, the reason you heard about this one is because click-hungry news outlets know all they have to do is print the word "Vegan" and you'll click it, outraged. They didn't type up the story of old man johnson suing his neighbor for deliberately growing their gol-durned pear tree close to his property line so it drops rotting fruit into his yard because it doesn't fit the "outrageous offended vegan" narrative.
A lawsuit was brought to the court. It was immediately dismissed. and your response here in a perfect world would be...what? To not allow people to bring lawsuits?
Heh, that's pretty funny. Honestly, though, this is kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn't it? All my friends who are lawyers say that pretty much half of the money we as a society spend on having a legal system is spent dealing with delusional overly litigious types who are willing to spend all their money on unimaginably stupid legal battles, and there's only so fast the legislature can dismiss them.
The only reason you hear about this guy and not Carol Spurnbongler's nineteenth attempt to sue her landlord because she's certain he's sending trained pigeons to poop on her car is because people love to hate vegans. They're an easy societal boogeyman and "Vegan sues business because he says Veganism is a religion!!!" is a great way to get clicks.
What is it you think is a problem here? His arguing that he was sacked for his veganism? That certainly seems not to be the case but misleading dismissal cases are hardly rare or unique to any demographic.
Is it that he's seeking to have veganism protected as a belief? Why doesn't it qualify and in what ways would this recognition be a problem?
Well, let's see, replace the word "Vegan" in that article with "Buddhist" and replace Johnny Punchableface McClickbait with an older asian dude, and see if you think it would be immoral to fire someone for that belief.
If he was a Buddhist, especially a specific sect of Buddhism that carry small brooms to gently sweep their path so as to not step on any insects, it wouldn't be an issue for the courts, would it?
IF this wins in court, would Pastafarians also be protected? How about Erisians? What about Flat Earthers?
Where does it stop?
Da Boss wrote: Or the people contributing to worldwide ecological collapse because they have internalised that eating meat is manly and are so insecure in their masculinity that they have to make a big deal out of it to let everyone know how red blooded they are!
(Am I doing this right?)
Not really, you haven’t used the term “toxic”, nor there is enough passive aggressiveness.
And the lack of Greta Whatshername’s quote is disturbing.
Good effort on dragging in “masculinity” and blaming non-vegans for the apocalypse though, you get points for that.
Heh, that's pretty funny. Honestly, though, this is kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn't it? All my friends who are lawyers say that pretty much half of the money we as a society spend on having a legal system is spent dealing with delusional overly litigious types who are willing to spend all their money on unimaginably stupid legal battles, and there's only so fast the legislature can dismiss them.
The only reason you hear about this guy and not Carol Spurnbongler's nineteenth attempt to sue her landlord because she's certain he's sending trained pigeons to poop on her car is because people love to hate vegans. They're an easy societal boogeyman and "Vegan sues business because he says Veganism is a religion!!!" is a great way to get clicks.
What is it you think is a problem here? His arguing that he was sacked for his veganism? That certainly seems not to be the case but misleading dismissal cases are hardly rare or unique to any demographic.
Is it that he's seeking to have veganism protected as a belief? Why doesn't it qualify and in what ways would this recognition be a problem?
Well, let's see, replace the word "Vegan" in that article with "Buddhist" and replace Johnny Punchableface McClickbait with an older asian dude, and see if you think it would be immoral to fire someone for that belief.
If he was a Buddhist, especially a specific sect of Buddhism that carry small brooms to gently sweep their path so as to not step on any insects, it wouldn't be an issue for the courts, would it?
IF this wins in court, would Pastafarians also be protected? How about Erisians? What about Flat Earthers?
Where does it stop?
The article you linked actually sets out explicitly where it stops.
Heh, that's pretty funny. Honestly, though, this is kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn't it? All my friends who are lawyers say that pretty much half of the money we as a society spend on having a legal system is spent dealing with delusional overly litigious types who are willing to spend all their money on unimaginably stupid legal battles, and there's only so fast the legislature can dismiss them.
The only reason you hear about this guy and not Carol Spurnbongler's nineteenth attempt to sue her landlord because she's certain he's sending trained pigeons to poop on her car is because people love to hate vegans. They're an easy societal boogeyman and "Vegan sues business because he says Veganism is a religion!!!" is a great way to get clicks.
What is it you think is a problem here? His arguing that he was sacked for his veganism? That certainly seems not to be the case but misleading dismissal cases are hardly rare or unique to any demographic.
Is it that he's seeking to have veganism protected as a belief? Why doesn't it qualify and in what ways would this recognition be a problem?
Well, let's see, replace the word "Vegan" in that article with "Buddhist" and replace Johnny Punchableface McClickbait with an older asian dude, and see if you think it would be immoral to fire someone for that belief.
If he was a Buddhist, especially a specific sect of Buddhism that carry small brooms to gently sweep their path so as to not step on any insects, it wouldn't be an issue for the courts, would it?
IF this wins in court, would Pastafarians also be protected? How about Erisians? What about Flat Earthers?
Where does it stop?
The article you linked actually sets out explicitly where it stops.
Mhm. And what if the person who sues Chipotle for making her poodle racist wins in court, that would -
oh, too late, it's been three seconds, no time to check if the court case gets dismissed like all the others we're on to the next moral outrage now!
Surely THIS time the fabric of society will collapse, and small court claims pre-dismissal aren't a ready made source for any political agenda to generate an endless diarrhetic stream of clickbait.
Can we please use “carnivore” or “omnivore” to describe someone who eats meat and leave the term “carnist” for something far more interesting (and not food related)? That’s too good a term to waste here.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Can we please use “carnivore” or “omnivore” to describe someone who eats meat and leave the term “carnist” for something far more interesting (and not food related)? That’s too good a term to waste here.
It sounds like Lady Gaga's fashion designer's official job description.
"They've called me many things, daaahling, a butcher, a hideous meat-tailor, a madwoman. But I, I am a carnist."
the_scotsman wrote: Either way, first day of veganuary went pretty good. crispy tofu with panko breadcrumbs and fried rice with teriyaki and mushrooms. Total cost 5.50 for each of us, not counting the fraction of the bag of breadcrumbs, oil, and sauces and spices we used.
Congratulations on (I think) being the first person to actually try this out from one of these threads. Please keep us posted!
BobtheInquisitor wrote:We hang our meat strips in the salt cave. If we leave them in there for more than theee days, we have to burn the bear paste and scream the demons out of the meat before we feast.
Huh. I find the demons really give it that extra umami but to each their own I guess. At least you're avoiding the really awful heartburn\possession.
Da Boss wrote:Or the people contributing to worldwide ecological collapse because they have internalised that eating meat is manly and are so insecure in their masculinity that they have to make a big deal out of it to let everyone know how red blooded they are!
(Am I doing this right?)
If by "doing this right" you mean constant hyperbolization without actually refuting points or contributing other than "NO U", then absolutely.
Don't forget the vegan lady that sued her neighbors for grilling in their own back yard.
The ones that then went full vengeance and had a giant BBQ full of meat where all kinds of people showed up to grill more meat for the sole reason of pissing the vegan lady off?
Being a crap human being comes in many forms.
I know, right? Especially since they did that massive grill thing first and not after being provoked.
Oh, wait...
Excommunicatus wrote:Yeah man, vegans suck. Comin' over 'ere, exercising their fundamental legal, consumer and employment rights.
The sheer [Expletive Deleted] nerve of it.
Also, good catch on the BBQ lady. Veganism destroyed. No carnist ever filed a stupid lawsuit.
NOT ONCE EVER.
PS - To whomever asked, if you eat plant-based but wear leather shoes you are a "dietary vegan", but not an "ethical vegan".
Infringing upon someone else's rights is where their fundamental legal, consumer, and employment rights end. At least in some Western countries.
Also, good catch on seeing that she attempted two more times after the first lawsuit was dismissed. Oh, wait. You didn't, because it backs up the others' points.
Isn't the point behind eating food that has no links to animal usage, products, or inherent animal suffering an ethical point as well? If not, then it doesn't matter WHAT vegetables you eat as long as there's no animal biomatter on there.
It doesn't matter what she did, because one person doesn't speak for the whole. Fred Phelps doesn't represent Christianity. Ed Kemper doesn't represent Californians. BBQ Lady doesn't represent vegans.
Everything you've posted has been refuted.
And again, veganism destroyed because you erected a strawman in the gap where your knowledge of what veganism is should be and then smashed it to pieces with wholly irrelevant semantics.
Once again, there's a difference between vegetarianism and veganism, and the sidebar in this thread is the softselling of that disparity and the counterpointing by those who know the difference is pretty drastic.
Long story short, what is being asked is to cut animal food items and go vegetarian for a month to see the difference in overall wellness, but with a side of vegan softsell as, per the usual, the end goal is to convert as many people as possible to your way of thinking. Period.
None of this you can refute, just as none of anything else have you refuted. You've made snide remarks extremely dismissive of anyone who speaks contrary to your talking points, and only cherry pick comments that you can lock, stock, and barrel counter. Which is also why you'll notice there's much more dismissiveness from you than any actual linked counterfacts.
Excommunicatus wrote: Two clicks, including one on the link in the OP, is all it takes to show that - again - you're very loud but very wrong.
Milk, eggs, cheese, honey... All permissible in a vegetarian diet. None are in a vegan diet.
You really should click on the OP link. It is designed exactly to helo people who don't know anything about veganism.
I know more than enough about veganism, I've had enough vegans in my social circle to know more than enough.
Let's try it a slightly different way: Eating Kosher and practicing Orthodox Judaism. Are they the same? Neither is an animal free diet and veganism. One is nutritional alteration, the other is most assuredly not.
Press X to Doubt. Do you tell them your obviously made-up story about getting spit-on, too?
Cool story. You should go on Facebook, sign up to every vegan group you can find and let loose the well actuallys.
Nobody - literally nobody - claimed that dietary veganism and ethical veganism are the same thing. Nobody claimed you can't be a dietary vegan if you aren't an ethical vegan.
This argument springs solely from your overconfidence seeping into the large gaps in your knowledge, 'cause you are demonstrably all over the shop. How you possibly think setting up preconditions in your own mind and then using your misunderstanding of veganism to make it fail the test you rigged against it is of any value whatsoever is quite, quite beyond me.
Click the link. I guarantee you'll learn a lot. Try it for a month. I guarantee you'll feel better.
You'll be smartier and sexier. There is no downside.
Da Boss wrote: Or the people contributing to worldwide ecological collapse because they have internalised that eating meat is manly and are so insecure in their masculinity that they have to make a big deal out of it to let everyone know how red blooded they are!
(Am I doing this right?)
Not really, you haven’t used the term “toxic”, nor there is enough passive aggressiveness.
And the lack of Greta Whatshername’s quote is disturbing.
Good effort on dragging in “masculinity” and blaming non-vegans for the apocalypse though, you get points for that.
And for completely ignoring the counterpoint. Everytime the ecological aspect gets brought up I point out that the problem isn't people eating meat but that there's too many people eating too much meat, and that the whole world going vegan is at best a stopgap measure, because the core problem is that there's too many of us, not what we eat. It always gets completely ignored.
There aren't too many people on the planet, even for just existing farmland. Even if not a single additional acre was converted to farmland, we would still have many centuries before we had too many people for the amount of food we could produce. Assuming of course that all food was distributed equitably to everybody on the planet with magic. Every body could even still eat meat if this was done.
Which is where the real reason that hunger exists in the world is revealed. Its not that there isn't enough food, its that the food and the people who are starving can't get to each other. Specific areas of the planet have way too many people for the food that can be produced locally. In others, people simply cannot afford basic necessities even though they are available. In famine ridden areas, local warlords often steal food shipments sent in humanitarian relief, meaning it never gets to those who need it. And local farmers go out of business because of imported foods driving prices down, and so the local food supply dries up.
Poverty and hunger are socioeconomic problems, not ecological problems. This planet is not going to fail to give everybody food for many millions of years yet, even if people keep eating meat.
The other reason there is prejudice towards vegans, is because they talk about consuming meat the same way jehovas witnesses do about sin. Sinners cause Australian fires, floods, earthquakes, there are more wars now and everyone is less happy, than anyone has ever been before. Well, how about you believe what you want, but don’t blame other ways for everything.
There is more than just one reason or simply a million other reasons, why the planet is becoming more dangerous for humans to inhabit, other that consumption of meat by our species. An average women doesn’t earn less than an average man because “sexism!”. There are dozens of factors. Same goes for the climate change not because “omnivores!”
Oh, and a true downside of being a vegan: you fart more. Which is a climate change concern, and I ain’t even joking.
I have tried living with a vegan diet for about 3 months and so has my partner. Honestly, it's no big deal. If you are committed, you can get everything you need for a "healthy" vegan diet in most supermarkets nowadays and it's not particularly expensive either if you stick to certain basics like rice, lentils and potatoes. Natto and Miso are also worth mentioning here, even though they are a bit pricy if eaten regularly.
The reason why we did stop is quite simply a matter of quality of live. We don't eat meat very often, but when we do, we don't want to think twice about it. Same goes for things like cheese, fish, eggs and chocolate. Vegans might argue that this is a selfish attitude to have and I'd probably agree, but I can live with that. The ethical concern of contributing to animals being killed is something I do understand, but I am too selfish to go through with it all the way.
Environmental concerns are a different matter altogether. Not eating meat twice a day (as many middle aged people in Germany still do, for example) would be a big step towards correcting this issue. Meat should be a high quality commodity in my view, and priced accordingly. Education is a big factor here, as is our local "cuisine", which consists in large parts of meat dishes. After having eaten an organic steak, there is just no going back.
In any case, this is a change in attitude that will happen eventually in my estimation. However, it will happen much more slowly than contemporary vegan activists are hoping and it will take several generations to come into effect. I also believe this change can not be enforced by outside pressure. Harassing people for eating meat will rather result in resentment and defiance, so this is the wrong approach in my view.
The amount that a vegan farts and the amount that a cow farts are different. Cows fart a LOT more, and their farts contain a lot more methane.
Additionally, you have to use about 10 times as much land to farm cattle as you do to farm an equivalent amount of vegetables. This is because the cow does not use all the energy of the grass it eats to convert into biomass. It uses a tiny fraction, around 10%.
Sheep are a little more efficient, pigs a little more efficient again, and the most efficient are chickens, in particular battery chickens because they are unable to waste energy by moving around. Organic farming is actually a lot less efficient in this way and therefore uses more land.
Why is this a problem? Habitat destruction is the main culprit in the mass extinction event we are currently living through. And a huge amount of the habitat destruction is caused by beef farming. The climate stuff is a less important consequence. We are essentially terraforming the earth to allow for the amount of beef, cheese and milk we want to consume. Webcomic, so not an academic source, but this visual outlines why it is an issue:
https://xkcd.com/1338/
A vegan diet is just more ecologically efficient than a meat based diet. Now, that does not mean that everyone has to become a super strict vegan. But trying out some alternatives is a good thing, and this Veganuary event is trying to encourage people to do so.
Big vegan dinner #2 and I've already found something I am absolutely keeping in my recipe book. We made a vegetable chili with pumpkin puree, cauliflower, beans, sweet potatoes, chipotle peppers, and cornbread made with almond milk, which I suspected was going to be and was freaking amazing.
Not super labor intensive because it was basically just thrown in the crockpot on low all day while I worked and the cornbread recipe was just "Put it all in a bowl and stir it a while".
Best tasting chili recipe I've ever had. The sweet ingredients worked incredibly well with the smoky-spicy chipotles. Glad I made enough for a couple of days, basically all I'm going to make tonight is a little side dish and we're gonna eat more of the chili.
the_scotsman wrote: Big vegan dinner #2 and I've already found something I am absolutely keeping in my recipe book. We made a vegetable chili with pumpkin puree, cauliflower, beans, sweet potatoes, chipotle peppers, and cornbread made with almond milk, which I suspected was going to be and was freaking amazing.
Not super labor intensive because it was basically just thrown in the crockpot on low all day while I worked and the cornbread recipe was just "Put it all in a bowl and stir it a while".
Best tasting chili recipe I've ever had. The sweet ingredients worked incredibly well with the smoky-spicy chipotles. Glad I made enough for a couple of days, basically all I'm going to make tonight is a little side dish and we're gonna eat more of the chili.
Any chance you have a link/could post your recipe?
the_scotsman wrote: Big vegan dinner #2 and I've already found something I am absolutely keeping in my recipe book. We made a vegetable chili with pumpkin puree, cauliflower, beans, sweet potatoes, chipotle peppers, and cornbread made with almond milk, which I suspected was going to be and was freaking amazing.
Not super labor intensive because it was basically just thrown in the crockpot on low all day while I worked and the cornbread recipe was just "Put it all in a bowl and stir it a while".
Best tasting chili recipe I've ever had. The sweet ingredients worked incredibly well with the smoky-spicy chipotles. Glad I made enough for a couple of days, basically all I'm going to make tonight is a little side dish and we're gonna eat more of the chili.
Any chance you have a link/could post your recipe?
2 tablespoon olive oil
1 tablespoon minced garlic
1 large sweet onion, diced
2 large carrots, diced
2 large sweet potatoes, peeled and diced
2 cans of black beans, rinsed and drained
1 bag of frozen or fresh cauliflower diced
1 pack of cooked lentils
1 cup of red quinoa
1 can diced tomatoes
1 mini can tomato paste
1 can pumpkin puree
1/4 cup diced de-seeded chipotle peppers (they come in a small can with adobo sauce, I take them out of the can, slice them, scoop the seeds out, then chop them up and add them back in to the can and put it in)
3 cups vegetable broth
lime juice
2 teaspoons chili powder
1 teaspoon cinnamon
½ teaspoon of nutmeg
2 teaspoons oregano
1 teaspoon smoked paprika
Saute your onions, carrots, and garlic for 5-10min with the oil before adding them to your big crock pot. Everything else just goes in to the pot. I did all the prep chopping the night before and had it all in a big bowl, and when I got up to go to work I sauted the onions and carrots and put it all in the pot, and set it to cook on low while I was at work. This made enough food for two people to eat for two days comfortably.
Keep in mind we are spicy food fiends so you may want to not use the whole mini-can of chipotles if you want it less spicy and more like, soupy.
the_scotsman wrote: Big vegan dinner #2 and I've already found something I am absolutely keeping in my recipe book. We made a vegetable chili with pumpkin puree, cauliflower, beans, sweet potatoes, chipotle peppers, and cornbread made with almond milk, which I suspected was going to be and was freaking amazing.
Not super labor intensive because it was basically just thrown in the crockpot on low all day while I worked and the cornbread recipe was just "Put it all in a bowl and stir it a while".
Best tasting chili recipe I've ever had. The sweet ingredients worked incredibly well with the smoky-spicy chipotles. Glad I made enough for a couple of days, basically all I'm going to make tonight is a little side dish and we're gonna eat more of the chili.
Any chance you have a link/could post your recipe?
2 tablespoon olive oil
1 tablespoon minced garlic
1 large sweet onion, diced
2 large carrots, diced
2 large sweet potatoes, peeled and diced
2 cans of black beans, rinsed and drained
1 bag of frozen or fresh cauliflower diced
1 pack of cooked lentils
1 cup of red quinoa
1 can diced tomatoes
1 mini can tomato paste
1 can pumpkin puree
1/4 cup diced de-seeded chipotle peppers (they come in a small can with adobo sauce, I take them out of the can, slice them, scoop the seeds out, then chop them up and add them back in to the can and put it in)
3 cups vegetable broth
lime juice
2 teaspoons chili powder
1 teaspoon cinnamon
½ teaspoon of nutmeg
2 teaspoons oregano
1 teaspoon smoked paprika
Saute your onions, carrots, and garlic for 5-10min with the oil before adding them to your big crock pot. Everything else just goes in to the pot. I did all the prep chopping the night before and had it all in a big bowl, and when I got up to go to work I sauted the onions and carrots and put it all in the pot, and set it to cook on low while I was at work. This made enough food for two people to eat for two days comfortably.
Keep in mind we are spicy food fiends so you may want to not use the whole mini-can of chipotles if you want it less spicy and more like, soupy.
Making people consider whether their choices are ethical is basically an attack on them, even if they end up deciding that they are behaving completely ethically. (I should note: I am being sarcastic here)
Proper veganuary day 4! Butternut squash, raisins, sweet potatoes, onions and carrots roasted with olive oil cinnamon nutmeg and maple syrup.
Slightly cheating, since this was one of my favorite fall/winter things anyway. I always cook it when it snows because for dessert you take a bowl of snow and scoop the syrup from the bottom of the pot onto it.
We are not doing the Vegan/Plant-based thing, but we are going to increase our focus on eating more ethically and eco-conscious. We have a share in a community farm and get many of our vegetables from there, so we are able to eat food that is fresh and in season and that hasn’t been driven halfway across the country and say in giant warehouses. We also got a new butcher, so we can get more of our meat that has been raised locally and has been processed more humanely. We are trying to decrease our processed food and eat more food that we prepare ourselves and decrease some meat and increase other sources of protein.
I think Vegans can go off on quite the deep end sometimes, as can any kind of belief and/or lifestyle, but I also think that there is nothing wrong with being more conscious about where your food comes from and how it has been treated.
I am vegetarian most of the time at home, but sometimes eat a bit of meat especially if I am out, or someone else cooks for me. I am not a strict vegan in my vegetarian meals either. As I said earlier in the thread, I am mostly concerned with land use and sustainability rather than the ethics of animal welfare, though i do salute the vegans for their dedication to that ethical standpoint. I think it is a really respectable thing to do.
Da Boss wrote: I am vegetarian most of the time at home, but sometimes eat a bit of meat especially if I am out, or someone else cooks for me. I am not a strict vegan in my vegetarian meals either. As I said earlier in the thread, I am mostly concerned with land use and sustainability rather than the ethics of animal welfare, though i do salute the vegans for their dedication to that ethical standpoint. I think it is a really respectable thing to do.
Land use and sustainability aren't really an issue if you're buying locally. If you're talking factory farms in Brazil or Texas, its one thing, but farm cattle in Germany or the northeastern US aren't causing habitat destruction. The limit of the number of cattle you can keep on different types of land is well known and easy to keep in check. You'll fall foul on animal health and safety regulations long before you overgraze, barring severe droughts and fires you aren't likely to get in either region (because your tag says Germany and I'm in the NE US... and have experience raising cattle here, and am somewhat familiar with farm operations there. Small scale farming is the landscape here, much as it is where I lived in northern (West) Germany back in the late 80s. It is the primary green space between towns, at least until you get up into the woods in some of smaller mountainous areas (and even then...) Its been the primary habitat for a century and a half here, and longer there.
'Organic farming' gets pretty fuzzy depending on how you mean the term. Some of it is sensible, like not burning out the soil with pesticides and synthetic fertilizers, bu the 'no antibiotics/vaccine angle' is a crazy outgrowth of the antivax movement being applied to food. Here you can't legally not give the animals their shots if you're moving them across state lines for a sale or show, which raises a lot of questions. Mostly 'Organic' is just a marketing tag to raise prices in store, regardless of what the farmers are getting paid for their products.
I get what you are saying but my perspective is fairly radical with regard to land use. I think we should be rewilding large amounts of farmland, and to do that we need to use less of it for pasture and crop production. The only realistic way to do that is to have people eat less meat.
The US and Europe are bad examples because we have already destroyed a huge amount of habitat. Places like Ireland (where I am from originally) used to have nearly full forest cover, now it is down to 6%. We live on a terraformed planet, we just don't recognise this fact.
Da Boss wrote: I get what you are saying but my perspective is fairly radical with regard to land use. I think we should be rewilding large amounts of farmland, and to do that we need to use less of it for pasture and crop production. The only realistic way to do that is to have people eat less meat.
The US and Europe are bad examples because we have already destroyed a huge amount of habitat. Places like Ireland (where I am from originally) used to have nearly full forest cover, now it is down to 6%. We live on a terraformed planet, we just don't recognise this fact.
Correction, nearly all of europe has destroyed their lands, especially woods, in the industrialisation, exception, funnily enough the cultural heavy meat eaters over here.
godardc wrote: How much meat do you guys eat ? Like another dude in this topic, I eat at least twice a day, sometimes three time a day.
What about you ?
2 or 3 times a day (usually chicken or turkey). Definitely 3 times a day if you count eggs as meat. It's just too hard to get enough protein in my diet unless I start eating 3x the amount of chicken I would eat with red kidney beans (38g of protien per 140g of chicken vs 12.18g of protein per 140g of red kidney beans).
I usually only have beef once a week and try to buy local when I can.
Yesterday's meal was a bit of a reminder to myself where I started from as I closed out the week. I made seared brussels sprouts with seitan bacon with some rice pilaf on the side.
Growing up brussels sprouts were disgusting soggy grey-green lumps with the life boiled out of them on the side of a plate of frozen chicken nuggets.
I think it's not too controversial to say that Broccoli is kind of not great no matter what you do to it and spinach not as an ingredient in or on something is kind of mouth-coaty and not great even steamed, but Brussels Sprouts are the most tragic casualty of the miserable 1950s "domestic science" cooking trend.
godardc wrote: How much meat do you guys eat ? Like another dude in this topic, I eat at least twice a day, sometimes three time a day.
What about you ?
2 or 3 times a day (usually chicken or turkey). Definitely 3 times a day if you count eggs as meat. It's just too hard to get enough protein in my diet unless I start eating 3x the amount of chicken I would eat with red kidney beans (38g of protien per 140g of chicken vs 12.18g of protein per 140g of red kidney beans).
I usually only have beef once a week and try to buy local when I can.
This was a concern for me too - turns out the seitan bacon I like anyway has an unreal amount of protein in it. 7g per ounce. If I want to get 56g of protein from chicken that's 500 calories, from the seitan it's 350.
Course, that's mostly wheat gluten, so doesn't help you much if you're trying to do keto or you're gluten intolerant.
This was a concern for me too - turns out the seitan bacon I like anyway has an unreal amount of protein in it. 7g per ounce. If I want to get 56g of protein from chicken that's 500 calories, from the seitan it's 350.
Course, that's mostly wheat gluten, so doesn't help you much if you're trying to do keto or you're gluten intolerant.
The main problem with seitan for me is it doesn't contain any lysine, so if you are trying to gain muscle mass you still need another source of protein (supplement, animal meat, or a good amount of beans) that contains lysine.
godardc wrote:How much meat do you guys eat ? Like another dude in this topic, I eat at least twice a day, sometimes three time a day.
What about you ?
None at all. Unlike you, I'm not edgy enough to slice it.
the_scotsman wrote: Yesterday's meal was a bit of a reminder to myself where I started from as I closed out the week. I made seared brussels sprouts with seitan bacon with some rice pilaf on the side.
Growing up brussels sprouts were disgusting soggy grey-green lumps with the life boiled out of them on the side of a plate of frozen chicken nuggets.
I think it's not too controversial to say that Broccoli is kind of not great no matter what you do to it and spinach not as an ingredient in or on something is kind of mouth-coaty and not great even steamed, but Brussels Sprouts are the most tragic casualty of the miserable 1950s "domestic science" cooking trend.
Tossing Brussels with some salt, pepper, and oil then roasting in the oven, @200 degrees C or 400 F for 25-30 minutes makes an amazing side. You can do the same with Broccoli and cauliflower. for added flavor mix in some garlic, onion, or citrus. Roasted veggies have more plate appeal than boiled or steamed, and almost all of them can be roasted. Just google the veggie and "Oven roasted.
godardc wrote: How much meat do you guys eat ? Like another dude in this topic, I eat at least twice a day, sometimes three time a day.
What about you ?
Just happened to be reading about the planed Mars missions coming up in 2030 ish and the astronauts will be eating a strict vegan diet . No room for farting cows apparently.
godardc wrote: How much meat do you guys eat ? Like another dude in this topic, I eat at least twice a day, sometimes three time a day.
What about you ?
Just happened to be reading about the planed Mars missions coming up in 2030 ish and the astronauts will be eating a strict vegan diet . No room for farting cows apparently.
Yeah, but a 2030 Mars Mission isn't happening. Planning's great, but who's actually gonna pay for it? Maybe once we've got fusion power and industry in orbit.
the_scotsman wrote: Yesterday's meal was a bit of a reminder to myself where I started from as I closed out the week. I made seared brussels sprouts with seitan bacon with some rice pilaf on the side.
Growing up brussels sprouts were disgusting soggy grey-green lumps with the life boiled out of them on the side of a plate of frozen chicken nuggets.
I think it's not too controversial to say that Broccoli is kind of not great no matter what you do to it and spinach not as an ingredient in or on something is kind of mouth-coaty and not great even steamed, but Brussels Sprouts are the most tragic casualty of the miserable 1950s "domestic science" cooking trend.
Brussel sprouts taste great just by themselves, but Spinach and Broccoli need to be spiced up a bit, I feel. A nice trick with broccoli is to mince the whole thing, stem and all, and then let it sit for about half an hour, so the sulphoraphane can build up inside. Then just sear it lightly and serve as a side dish or eat it raw as part of a salad - I've really come to enjoy broccoli prepared this way. Spinach works best for me when steamed and served with a good amount of garlic and olive oil.
Sprouts make me urge. Literally can't take so much as a mouthful without wanting to vomit. Mum will eat cold ones out of the fridge.
Turns out they contain a chemical people can be genetically predisposed to be sensitive to, so if you're one of those people there's probably very little you can do to make them edible.
the_scotsman wrote: I think it's not too controversial to say that Broccoli is kind of not great no matter what you do to it
Pfft. I quite like broccoli, especially steamed with a little tiny touch of butter and garlic salt.
I also like it with cheese but of course if you're doing that, I feel like you're defeating the point of eating broccoli to begin with. I personally just steam it in the bag.
the_scotsman wrote: I think it's not too controversial to say that Broccoli is kind of not great no matter what you do to it
Pfft. I quite like broccoli, especially steamed with a little tiny touch of butter and garlic salt.
I also like it with cheese but of course if you're doing that, I feel like you're defeating the point of eating broccoli to begin with. I personally just steam it in the bag.
Brocoli and cheese. A match made in heaven!
Barely cooked or sliced thin, raw over cheese on toast, lots of salt...yum!
I love broccoli steamed, microwaved, or in soup, but definitely cooked in some manner. Cauliflower and spinach both taste okay raw, great steamed, but are even better when disappearing into other meals. I find that Brussels sprouts taste better when they are slightly burned.
Broccoli for me is just boiled for about 2 minutes (make sure to add enough canola oil to it, most people just dunk it and overcook it without oil which is why it tastes so terrible to them) and lightly sprinkle salt and its good to go for me. Simple and tasty.
I’m also team broccoli, but I think it’s easy to overcook it. One thing I like to do is take it and cauliflower and carrots (usually a frozen mix) and throw it in a blender to get coarse crumbles, and use it to replace some of the meat in chili with beans.
d-usa wrote: I’m also team broccoli, but I think it’s easy to overcook it. One thing I like to do is take it and cauliflower and carrots (usually a frozen mix) and throw it in a blender to get coarse crumbles, and use it to replace some of the meat in chili with beans.
Huh. I might try that sometime. The chili recipe I made is already full of veggies though, and I don't like super blended up non-chunky chilis as much.
Did a coconut curry last night. Coconut milk, green curry paste, and garam masala as the base for the sauce, diced potatoes, pearl onions, sliced portabello muchrooms, carrots and celery for the veggies. Served over rice, perfect meal to make tons of and save for good reheated lunches at work.
Honestly, that's been the nicest part of this whole experiment for me is how much better my from home lunches have been. Half the meals I've made I can just make more of and then take them in for 2-3 days, so I haven't had to make myself sandwiches or eat boring turkey sandwiches for lunch.
Since it was brought up earlier about the ethics of farming and a vegan/plant based diet, I thought this article about the almond milk industry killing off bee populations was apt.
A recent survey of commercial beekeepers showed that 50 billion bees – more than seven times the world’s human population – were wiped out in a few months during winter 2018-19. This is more than one-third of commercial US bee colonies, the highest number since the annual survey started in the mid-2000s.
Beekeepers attributed the high mortality rate to pesticide exposure, diseases from parasites and habitat loss. However, environmentalists and organic beekeepers maintain that the real culprit is something more systemic: America’s reliance on industrial agriculture methods, especially those used by the almond industry, which demands a large-scale mechanization of one of nature’s most delicate natural processes.
Production of almond milk is a live issue and I personally do not know a single vegan/PB-person who is unaware of the fact that it is entirely problematic or who use or promote it. It's very similar to how most carnists don't promote or use veal, or foie gras, and how neither of those things are an argument against eating chicken.
What you've linked is an argument against industrial farming and wider capitalism in toto. It isn't an argument against vegan/PB diets.
Production of almond milk is a live issue and I personally do not know a single vegan/PB-person who is unaware of the fact that it is entirely problematic or who use or promote it. It's very similar to how most carnists don't promote or use veal, or foie gras, and how neither of those things are an argument against eating chicken.
What you've linked is an argument against industrial farming and wider capitalism in toto. It isn't an argument against vegan/PB diets.
But what is pushing the industry? Pretty sure the almond industry didn't start taking off until the rise of vegan/pb diets
A very quick comparison between the number of people who count themselves as vegan/PB and the amount of almond milk sold reveals that either the majority of people who buy it are not vegan/PB or that an awful lot of vegans/PB-people are super into Cleopatra LARPing.
The primary reason for a collapse in bee populations is the overuse of neonicotinoid pesticides, which should just be outright banned. If those pesticides are used in the farming of almonds, then I can see that contributing, but they are used in all intensive crop farming.
However. From a land use point of view, plants are ALWAYS going to be more efficient and use less land per unit of nutritional value than meat. This is simple thermodynamics and not anything that can be argued against. There is no way to feed 7 billion plus humans without environmental costs, but feeding them all with meat heavy diets will be utterly catastrophic.
But what is pushing the industry? Pretty sure the almond industry didn't start taking off until the rise of vegan/pb diets
There have been a lot of dietary shifts in the same period of time. Many people who have moved to dairy alternatives didn't do so because they took up vegetarianism. Lactose intolerance or sensitivity, and the emergence of some studies suggesting dairy milk is actually hindering calcium intake being the common reasons.
Brussel sprouts, leeks, garlic, olive oil, salt and balsamic vinegar sautéed in a pan. You’re all welcome. Also, all the veggies being mentioned getting roasted...forgot to mention parsnips. I could eat parsnips at every meal. Delicious roasted, grilled, pan fried, in soups, etc. It doesn’t matter what they go in, they’re amazing.
I have zero intention of going full vegan ever. But I can absolutely enjoy a meal with no meat or animal involvement. I used to make an occasional lentil stew that used veggie broth, curry spices, potatoes, carrots and onions and it got wrecked every time I made it because it was so flavorful; and even my carnivore roommate at the time loved it.
So my eating leans a bit toward a Keto-diet type method, veggies I lean on for more "variety" but I always worked towards the Jamie Oliver methods of cooking to keep it interesting.
My country background tends to make me think "It is not a meal without dead animal on my plate!".
BUT how vegan do you want people to go?
As listed previously, cheese is not a vegetable product and anything dairy creates a market for veal (or calves wastefully killed otherwise) so that is a consideration.
I will have to give this a pass for now but hey, I fast every other day so I am using half the food I used to so it is more sustainable than it was!
Da Boss wrote: The primary reason for a collapse in bee populations is the overuse of neonicotinoid pesticides, which should just be outright banned. If those pesticides are used in the farming of almonds, then I can see that contributing, but they are used in all intensive crop farming.
However. From a land use point of view, plants are ALWAYS going to be more efficient and use less land per unit of nutritional value than meat. This is simple thermodynamics and not anything that can be argued against. There is no way to feed 7 billion plus humans without environmental costs, but feeding them all with meat heavy diets will be utterly catastrophic.
...
So despite ridiculing my earlier point you're now re-iterating it and using it as an argument for your own side. Good job.
For the record, I'm not arguing for meat heavy diets.
You mean the point about overpopulation? I mean, yeah, I guess there are a lot of humans. But...like what do you want to do about it? My solution would be improving everyones standard of living and giving women more rights and particularly control over their bodies internationally, so that birth rates decline.
However, if along with that development everyone is eating as much meat as an American it is gonna be a disaster.
The other "solutions" to overpopulation involve grotesque crimes against humanity or restrictions on the most fundamental of instincts, so I acknowledge the problem but am trying to propose a way forward that can allow us to deal with it while preserving as much of the natural world as we can.
Yeah, it's a knotty problem, allright.
Declining birthrates is the way to go, but it has to be across the board, or we get the current situation where places that do have one get overrun with migrants, thereby undoing the decrease while leaving the places they left behind continuing to grow in population at the same rate - net effect zero.
And the problem with everyone going vegan still stands as long as the underlying problem is overpopulation - at best it will buy us some time, but it's still treating a symptom rather than the disease
Yeah, I definitely think we should be working hard to undo the legacy of colonialism and bring everyone up to a decent standard of living as a priority, and especially prioritising womens reproductive freedom. But while we are doing that, eating less meat is a good idea anyway.
I agree that overpopulation is often a cover for racism. And I agree that any limiting of human reproductive rights, or worse methods tend to be racially biased (and biased by class).
But humans are definitely ecologically exceptional in how many of us there are on the planet, and we are defying a lot of princples of ecology by expending resoueces at a huge rate.
10 billion is what we can support, yeah, but at an ecological cost. We will probably get there, but hopefully not too much higher than that.
I think what is important is that we all can agree that brussel sprouts, aka the devils testicles, are a blight on humanity and to be avoided at all costs.
Animal agriculture is necessarily inefficient. We would indisputably be in a better position environmentally and ecologically now and in the future and better poised for future population growth if it was abandoned entirely in favour of plant agriculture.
EDIT - And yes, sprouts are [Expletive Deleted] horrible little things.
Ahtman wrote: I think what is important is that we all can agree that brussel sprouts, aka the devils testicles, are a blight on humanity and to be avoided at all costs.
"the devil's testicles" and brussells sprouts are two different things.
AVOCADO is the testicle (it even comes from the word for it). Nothing can save this disappointing green mushy testicle.
OTOH, a little olive oil, some bacon, some sauteeing ... sprouts are delish. And bear grylls is still a wuss.
I understand that some people are genetically predisposed to dislike brussel sprouts, like with cilantro. Even if one isn’t, it’s very easy to mess them up.
For Brussels Sprouts, if you really don't like them, then there's not much one can do. You probably don't much like Cabbage or Broccoli if you are really averse.
But if you have only ever had them boiled then a whole new world awaits when they have been roasted.
Parboil for 5mins (DO NOT CUT A CROSS IN THE BOTTOMS).
Refresh in cold water.
Put in a roasting pan with a little oil, some garlic, chestnuts or walnuts, coarse salt, pepper.
Shake to coat everything.
Then bang in the oven for 25 mins.
Milder sweeter and nuttier (even without added nuts) than boiled. More interesting texture as well.
As filler and to bulk out foods/foodstock for cattle this method of production will be an absolute boon. It will allow cheap and filling foodstuffs to continue to be produced.
Helping to move away from Palm OIl production would be a massive plus (obviously leaving countries currently producing it at a disadvantage).
Yea absolutely, it would change how we all eat. I wonder if it is easier to convince people to eat lab food than take up veganism? To be a vegan must take a lot of dietery disclipline as the majority of foods aren't vegan, whilst I assume the lab food will supplant normal ingredients in most foods because of it being much cheaper to produce.
We already have anti-GMO Luddites, Natural News and foodbabe; lab-grown meat is just going to set them all off all over again about 'frankenfoods'.
One of the most popular 'arguments' against Beyond Meat burgers is that they have a lot of ingredients (not bad ingredients, just a lot, which is bad because reasons) and they're not terribly healthy.
Unlike every other fast-food burger out there, natch.
As I said, I'm not hopeful. Dietary choices seem to be an area where almost everyone is happy to allow huge amounts of hypocrisy to govern. A Cavendish banana is good GMO, because reasons that they haven't fully thought through.
We already have anti-GMO Luddites, Natural News and foodbabe; lab-grown meat is just going to set them all off all over again about 'frankenfoods'.
One of the most popular 'arguments' against Beyond Meat burgers is that they have a lot of ingredients (not bad ingredients, just a lot, which is bad because reasons) and they're not terribly healthy.
Unlike every other fast-food burger out there, natch.
As I said, I'm not hopeful. Dietary choices seem to be an area where almost everyone is happy to allow huge amounts of hypocrisy to govern. A Cavendish banana is good GMO, because reasons that they haven't fully thought through.
I understand the reasons but still find meat alternatives odd.. especially those made to look like the products they replace. Yeah you have to convince the carnivores but is it ethical to eat something made to look as though Hilda the cow had to die to make it?
As for the Cavendish..yeah..monoculture at its finest...(don't mention disease).
Most vegan/PB-people spent many years eating an omnivorous diet and most of us don't quit eating animal products because we think they taste bad. I still get cravings for steak, bacon and cheese. Oh, the cheese cravings. Six years vegan.
I don't really see how the shape of a, say, Beyond Meat burger can be unethical, personally. I play Skyrim when I could just go out in the street and attack people with an axe. Course, doing that would make a murderer. I eat Beyond Meat burgers when I could just go out and get a Baconator, but of course that would make me a...
I think the shape and presentation of meat-substitutes is an almost totally irrelevant consideration, personally. I just don't see how it could hold any importance.
'Why do you want something like meat?' has always struck me as an odd criticism. I presume people who ask it have no issue with alcohol free beer and decaf coffee.
nfe wrote: 'Why do you want something like meat?' has always struck me as an odd criticism. I presume people who ask it have no issue with alcohol free beer and decaf coffee.
Like I said I understand completely why. Its an easy sell and a great stepping stone for meat eaters, like me. It has always struck me as funny though.
I don't think anyone argues that the Cavendish is good GMO - quite the opposite. I think it's commonly known that it's a banana apocalypse in waiting that could go off at any moment.
Ouze wrote: I don't think anyone argues that the Cavendish is good GMO - quite the opposite. I think it's commonly known that it's a banana apocalypse in waiting that could go off at any moment.
Not all that commonly and almost never by the same sort of people who bang on about GMOs and watch foodbabe videos.
Some of the pushback against “fake meat” like the impossible meat I have seen has come from Vegans or Vegetarians. There was an interview on NPR with someone who seemed to have difficulty with understanding how someone would want to eat something that tastes and feels like meat. She said something to the effect of “at that point just eat meat, it’s stupid to want fake meat, just be vegetarian”.
There is a fair number of us folks who enjoy meat and like to eat meat, and who are concerned about the environmental impact of raising meat or the concerns about the ethical treatment of the animals who are the source of our meat.
If I can have my “meat” without worrying about it having suffered to get on my plate, then that’s a good thing for me. I wouldn’t want “fake meat” because I’m a vegetarian, I would want fake meat because I want “ethical meat”.
Better meat substitutes are one way to get there, lab grown meats are another. None of them are really there yet I think, but it’s an option to explore.
So I had a girlfriend a few years ago who was into the whole Vegan thing. She started it when the first came to college, and within 6 months she had so many health issues that her Doctor told her to go back to eating a balanced diet or risk dying.
She ignored him and ended up with permanent neurological damage thanks to a B12 deficiency.
She had to keep track of so much stuff Iron, Calcium etc that it became almost a full time job for her. She also ended up losing about 45 lbs in the first 6 months and the mood swings became so unbearable that we split up.
So. No, thanks. I'll stick with enjoying the foods that I like.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: At that point you're just in a weird dark bar with a bunch of perverts.
It is called the FLGS and where most hobby gaming happens.
Which month are we devoting to vegetarianism? To being an omnivore? To only eating meat? I'm trying to build my calendar for the upcoming year.
Excuse me, but June is "autovore" month. If you've never tried eating a jeep before, I highly recommend it. Jeeps are neigh indestructible. If you eat one, you will be too!
Togusa wrote: So I had a girlfriend a few years ago who was into the whole Vegan thing. She started it when the first came to college, and within 6 months she had so many health issues that her Doctor told her to go back to eating a balanced diet or risk dying.
She ignored him and ended up with permanent neurological damage thanks to a B12 deficiency.
You never change your diet without going to a doctor first. I know that's retrospect, but she should have consulted her physician. Which is one of the things I'm not sure the vegans have said in here, and I've even neglected to think about.
Although the people I know that eat meat, they were able to supplement that deficiency other ways. One thing I won't say is that there's no way around eating meat. It can be done, but it's not always cheap and easy.
If that's debunking, then humans can't vegan because space slippers banana doggy.
That was not the first time the racist overpopulation myth had been brought up. IIRC, it came up initially on the very first page.
Togusa wrote:So I had a girlfriend a few years ago who was into the whole Vegan thing. She started it when the first came to college, and within 6 months she had so many health issues that her Doctor told her to go back to eating a balanced diet or risk dying.
She ignored him and ended up with permanent neurological damage thanks to a B12 deficiency.
She had to keep track of so much stuff Iron, Calcium etc that it became almost a full time job for her. She also ended up losing about 45 lbs in the first 6 months and the mood swings became so unbearable that we split up.
Excommunicatus wrote: That was not the first time the racist overpopulation myth had been brought up. IIRC, it came up initially on the very first page.
So, do you speak some language where 'racist' just means "I dislike this"?
Anything that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without it as well.
Kant is literally just the basic fundamentals of logic and reason. It isn't governing or defining. At a minimum, you'd learn why claiming a high-ground while throwing irrelevant ad hominens around isn't going to work for you.
Excommunicatus wrote: Anything that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without it as well.
I bet that's an argument you're very selective about using, and only bring up when it's in your favor.
Now, let's see what happens when someone comes in with a big sob story about the FLGS...
Excommunicatus wrote: Kant is literally just the basic fundamentals of logic and reason. It isn't governing or defining. At a minimum, you'd learn why claiming a high-ground while throwing irrelevant ad hominens around isn't going to work for you.
Excommunicatus wrote: Anything that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without it as well.
I bet that's an argument you're very selective about using, and only bring up when it's in your favor..
Extremely. His debunking consisted of "it's nonsense." Pot, meet kettle.
Then when I spoke up again because someone else used the exact same point as an argument for their own side, he resorted to calling me (well, technically my argument, but we all know what was intended) racist.
This thread would seem to have outlived its usefulness, and people seem determined to continue slinging nonsense at each other despite multiple pages of this already having been removed. So I think we're done here.
My mother (who learned from her mother, a post-WW2 1950s housewife who followed the "Domestic Science" philosophy of ease-of-digestion cooking) basically boiled every vegetable we ever ate, and never seasoned anything that was cooked.
