Seeing as the bunch of lunatics in Westminster are determined to crash us out without any kind of deal, what does it mean for UK wargamers? Personally I've noticed price increases on many things across Ebay and Amazon, as well as items such as minis and paint from Europe, mainly I suspect to try recoup some cash from the covid lockdowns.
Now we've got another 'iceberg' on the horizon.
Are we going to get double tapped when it comes to buying from Europe and elsewhere? I just have this horrible feeling that any import costs will be steep and will be tagged onto any purchase we make, so that it becomes financially ridiculous.
Thoughts?

I tend to agree. Gw will probably do ok regardless, bit for buying from abroad I expect a hike. Brexit has already tanked the exchange rate with the dollar, and pp prices have been crazy for a while.

But hey, blue passports, right?

Right now, no-one seems to know how it'll play out.

William Shatner (of all people) recently made headlines by threatening to stop shipping to the UK due to the 'red tape' (Sky News).

Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

beast_gts wrote:
Right now, no-one seems to know how it'll play out.

William Shatner (of all people) recently made headlines by threatening to stop shipping to the UK due to the 'red tape' (Sky News).

But the ladies of negotiable affection from the next town over said red tape was Bill's favourite...

I suspect prices will get bumped, how much of it is actually because of actual reasons rather than just cos and or Nurgle remains to be seen

The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Slipstream wrote:
Seeing as the bunch of lunatics in Westminster are determined to crash us out without any kind of deal, what does it mean for UK wargamers? Personally I've noticed price increases on many things across Ebay and Amazon, as well as items such as minis and paint from Europe, mainly I suspect to try recoup some cash from the covid lockdowns.
Now we've got another 'iceberg' on the horizon.
Are we going to get double tapped when it comes to buying from Europe and elsewhere? I just have this horrible feeling that any import costs will be steep and will be tagged onto any purchase we make, so that it becomes financially ridiculous.
Thoughts?

UK GW players aren't all that affected unless GW decides to increase prices due to supply expenses. Books printed from china not affected as they were out of EU anyway. For GW games non-UK are most hit as GW will prohibit UK stores selling outside UK to EU countries like they have already banned selling outside EU so far. This forces non-UK to buy from local with GW's inflated exchange rates(which just goes even crazier). (there's reason I have been buying as much stuff as I can now this year)

Vallejo is going to get pricier for UK I think. That was spanish company? But anyway every miniature product from EU will go up. Stores will naturally pass tarif prices to customers rather than out of their own picket. Also more delays.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

Well that won't be possible. Only reason that has kept GW from banning that(like they did outside EU) was laws. When that law isn't worry anymore no reason GW won't expand it. No exchange rate shopping anymore.

Small UK companies that sell direct or on Kickstarter will definitely struggle without the EU market.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

I'm fully expecting to see huge increases in postage and probably see import duties, in which case I'll probably stop buying from most companies and just do one huge order from Goblin Gaming once a year.

I don't know about other stores around Ireland, as most are too far out for me to travel to just for picking up hobby products, but the store in Cork only sells a small selection of GW products at the exact same price as they are from GW , so it's hard to see a reason to buy from there when I only play at home and can order online and have access to a huge selection of products, most with discount. Even the GW store is 2 mins walk away from the other store.

SamusDrake wrote:
The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Now you know how aussies and other player feel in other countries.

I was literally about to post something about this in N&R (as in some ways think it has to act as a warning for people to buy stuff now!)

Have recently been stung by a pretty nasty customs charge for some video games stuff ordered from Japan (came to about 35% of the total cost) and thinking that this is going to affect hobby purchases for people purchasing and then sending items either from or to the UK from the rest of Europe (I know there is a possibility this won't happen, but is looking like the most likely outcome at this point.)
I buy a lot from smaller companies in Spain in particular (there are some great smaller companies making Fantasy Football teams for Blood Bowl for instance) so assume this is going to effectively make that very expensive to do.

I think even for people who only order from the larger companies that operate from the UK (GW, Warlord etc.) who deal through distributor networks to stores - those lorries carrying the new Space Marine codex release to France, Germany etc. are going to be delayed in lorry parks outside Kent and there are bound to be other implications for the distributor network.
I should also think the large retailers in the UK, who have been probably been doing well out of the weak £ for orders from the EU, are surely going to be impacted.

So in my view I think buy stuff before Jan 2021 if you are within the scenario above - especially from smaller companies.

Not Online!!! wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Now you know how aussies and other player feel in other countries.

Well, no, because then our Australian friends would have it even harder! Probably be paying something like £80!

Seriously, if I were living in such places then I simply wouldn't bother with Games Workshop at all. Contrary to popular belief, there is always a limit.

SamusDrake wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Now you know how aussies and other player feel in other countries.

Well, no, because then our Australian friends would have it even harder! Probably be paying something like £80!

Seriously, if I were living in such places then I simply wouldn't bother with Games Workshop at all. Contrary to popular belief, there is always a limit.

depends though if the local TG playerbase is willing to play something else...
Also GW has 40k as an IP ... so that is also a factor, atleast for me, but then again i am not above plasticard greenstuff and 3rd parties aswell as historicals..

I think those of us in the uk will end up buying far less direct from EU suppliers as not only will be get taxed, if we're importing outselves we'll get hit by the £8 collection fee from the royal mail (or more if it comes via courier)

so hopefully the likes of Element, Wayland Games etc will pick up a lot more smaller lines so we 'only' have to pay the tax and their markup

otherwise it's the occasional larger order (KS will profit here) where the collection fee is far less in proportion to the rest of the spend

For the larger companies like Vallejo hopefully the UK market is large enough for them to have a UK office and import stuff themselves

(and if your in the EU I fear I agree with the comments above, you'll probably loose access to the UK based GW resellers like Element etc)

Well unfortunately I see hard times coming to those excellent small UK companies i.e.

Troll Trader
Atlantis Miniatures
Anvil Industries
Zealot Games

and and and....

Who cares about the big ones they will find a way! They will be / could be hit very hard.
No one is going to make quick purchases from the EU if they have to pay Tax and higher postage.

Evil-D185 wrote:
Well unfortunately I see hard times coming to those excellent small UK companies

Hopefully they'll all find ways to survive. TT has just bought a dozen new laser cutters to meet demand for their MDF terrain, and Anvil are pushing the patreon / STL side of things, for examples.

Oh dear. This might actually be a lot worse than people have realised for people in the UK (rather than those in the EU) who are wanting to purchase items from outside the UK and bring them into the country.

Been reading some threads in amongst the plastic kit building forums, which is my other hobby, and there are a fair few people doing backflips there. It's probably not going to affect the big EU sellers who will VAT register, but the smaller and garage companies will be a different matter, with the prevailing consensus being that many will probably just stop selling to the UK.

This is one comment from the Britmodeller forum which seems to have reached some understanding.

This looks like bad news for U.K. modellers who buy from overseas:
tl;dr - The UK is eliminating the VAT exemption for shipments valued under £15 and they are making overseas vendors responsible for collecting VAT on shipments to the U.K. This will likely mean most overseas vendors will no longer ship to the U.K. to avoid the £1000 cost of submitting the forms to register with HMRC and the hassle of submitting VAT payments to the UK. I’d guess on-line marketplaces (OMPs) like Amazon and eBay will be unaffected but they will now collect VAT on purchases from outside the UK. Individual retailers (e.g. HLJ, Sprue Brothers, Eduard, etc) will now have to register with HMRC and collect VAT on packages sent to the UK).

Outline of the changes
For imports of goods from outside the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value (which aligns with the threshold for customs duty liability), we will be moving the point at which VAT is collected from the point of importation to the point of sale. This will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on these consignments.
The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.
Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT.
For goods sent from overseas and sold directly to UK consumers without OMP involvement, the overseas seller will be required to register and account for the VAT to HMRC.
Business to business sales not exceeding £135 in value will also be subject to the new rules. However, where the business customer is VAT registered in the UK and provides its valid VAT registration number to the seller, the VAT will be accounted for by the customer by means of a reverse charge.”

One person (and I don't know whether this is true or not) mentioned that they thought UK HMRC are basically trying to put the onus on sellers to carry out their VAT paperwork, as the UK gov simply won't have the staff to be able to process all of the additional customs paperwork. This, very unwieldy option, is the alternative to import trade of goods becoming completely logjammed.

That echos what The Shat said - £1000 to register plus someone to do the paperwork.

That does fit the trend. Can uk modelers get around this with reshipping services?

In theory no, as the re-shipper would have to do the VAt collection


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on the other hand i wonder if online shop solution companies might be able to build collection into their software?

Amazon already ship for other companies in the UK (Element Games have recently moved to them) so I could definitely see eBay and Amazon extending their delivery service to other companies so that they deal with the VAT issue for a small fee and then the shipment is sent via Amazon Logistics for Amazon or USPS for eBay.

I am in the process of trying to get Mantic to send me what I ordered from a big order from them to try to avoid this mess.

No idea at all how it will turn out, which is really pretty shocking. Must be terrifying for British businesses at the moment with COVID and the total lack of clarity about trading arrangements.

I hope there is a deal for the sake of the small businesses. Some wonderful UK manufacturers across all sizes, it really is the spiritual home of miniature wargaming in a lot of ways.

Even WITH the deal there still will be more paperwork and new IT they need to work with. None that are known yet.

There'll be some short term upheaval for sure, I suspect in the long run things will settle down, prices will rise, postage costs and duty will change as they always do. Getting things from further afield than Europe may become easier and cheaper. The main problem is nobody really knows.

I don't think there is any reason to believe it will be any better than it is currently for buying outside of the EU - i.e. crap, especially for smaller volumes. Even once things have settled down.

Charges for Royal Mail even having to process the item, and good luck getting hold of them via the phone or email as it's almost impossible to speak to a human being. Just anecdotally, I've been waiting over 10 days to get hold of an item that has been held up in customs now... Think even if some arrangements are put in place (and reading about it, a lot is going to depend on what happens in the US this time next week) I think we can kiss goodbye to the seamless situation you have now, where you don't really have to worry about sending to the EU beyond Hermes losing the parcel or accidentally sending it back to the sender.

An update of sorts for this.

Been reading about some plastic kit/modelling companies that have been trying to register with the UK/HMRC for sales in the new year and apparently are having difficulties, to the point where they are now sending messages to customers saying no sale to the UK in the new year.
Admittedly these are smaller/niche companies (and I haven't seen anything in the wargaming/miniature area yet) but the signs are worrying.

I think advice has to be: buying into or out of the UK, best to try and do it as soon as possible. Unlike the situation with the vaccine, it's unlikely the government is going to use the military to fly wargame miniature orders into or out of the country (as much as I think that would be a valid operation)

It is looking pretty bad, deal or no deal. I am quite annoyed because I ordered from Mantic months ago, but they messed up my order and then messed up the replacement, and I am not really having any luck getting the actual order off them so I am pretty sure it is going to come through after Brexit (if at all) and I am going to be hit with customs on it (annoying) and have to trek out to the customs house to pick it up (really annoying).

Very disappointed that they are so incompetent tbh.

I would be interested to know what GW's plans are.

But if I was in the UK I would be much more worried about things other than toy soldiers to be honest, it looks like the UK is very poorly prepared.

Funny I said nothing on the Wargames front, but I think after the news of the past day or two that might start to happen.

Update from Heresy Miniatures saying please try and order before January as customs handling fees will apply from then.

This is who it is going to really hurt - the smaller producers who have a significant market (either in or outside the UK) and for whom customers will just not now bother with the additional charges. And that's not including the smaller companies that will just stop selling to the UK because of either the cost or inconvenience.

 Da Boss wrote:
It is looking pretty bad, deal or no deal. I am quite annoyed because I ordered from Mantic months ago, but they messed up my order and then messed up the replacement, and I am not really having any luck getting the actual order off them so I am pretty sure it is going to come through after Brexit (if at all) and I am going to be hit with customs on it (annoying) and have to trek out to the customs house to pick it up (really annoying).

Very disappointed that they are so incompetent tbh.

I would be interested to know what GW's plans are.

But if I was in the UK I would be much more worried about things other than toy soldiers to be honest, it looks like the UK is very poorly prepared.

Don't get me started.. just search for your own GIF of a flaming steam train falling off a collapsed bridge and exploding, or something similar, it is easier than me typing what I think.

I would assume that GW and other big sellers are probably going to have a dedicated group working on it (most large companies are, because it will affect everything).

But things like stock shortages, distribution of goods will affect every business with an export department - GW included.

 Pacific wrote:
going to use the military to fly wargame miniature orders into or out of the country (as much as I think that would be a valid operation)

Since a lot of gamers are in the military, I'm sure we can reply on our troops to keep the country stocked.

Even more incentive for garage companies and consumers to switch to purely digital, 3d printable product.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even more incentive for garage companies and consumers to switch to purely digital, 3d printable product.

Until someone/something 'powerful' notices and we end up with the 3D printing equivalent of DVD Region Codes...

I'm about to make a 3k euros order from FW to pretty much buy everything I want, so I don't have to pay customs/handling and maybe also deal with potential price increase :/

Better hurry up. Fw has been slower than usual lately. When customs kick in? Based on day of purchase? Or when it arrives? Year end is pretty close so arrival could go to next year

Brexit: Hornby stops non-UK orders due to price confusion - BBC

Interesting article, in answer to tneva82's question..

tneva82 wrote:
Better hurry up. Fw has been slower than usual lately. When customs kick in? Based on day of purchase? Or when it arrives? Year end is pretty close so arrival could go to next year

Not even the boss of Hornby knows

Hornby boss Lyndon Davies said: "Within Europe people are already asking us: 'If I buy something, are those tariffs already included in your pricing?' Because we don't know what's going to happen, it's just a very difficult position."

 Sim-Life wrote:
Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

The Ferry from Liverpool to Dublin will be loaded down with people's personal cargo containers to avoid import taxes.

I'm really interested in how this is going to play out. There are very few economists willing to go on record saying anything positive about a no-deal situation. But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

As a polish person, my thoughts on the current kleptocrats in power don't bear reapeating (and they'd literally hang if they tried to force a polexit), but I doubt EU is "making an example", they're just offering the similar deal to what Norway and other countries get where UK government wants to have all the privileges and none of the responsibilities involved. EU's stance has not been made harder for the UK than it is for other non-eu affiliates, it was always delusional to think UK would somehow be exempt from the usual limitations by virtue of...idk, being british? Of course, were one uncharitable, they could say it's all been lies from the start. Remember Dyson? The dude that was pro-brexit and then moved his factories to Asia? Or Farage, one of the architects of Brexit, which promptly went and fled to the US?

That being said, what it means for me is I've placed one last order with TTC for ogre heroes, and will probably buy nothing else directly from the UK gamestores as the extra waiting time and potential tariffs will make it not worth my time.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

Simple. If uk can trade freely without following same　rules as everybody whole single market dies. So uk would trade freely to 27 eu countries but suddenly inside eu no free trade.

Whole point of single market is that since all follow same rules there's no need for tarifs and checks.

Either all follow or there's no single market. Hungary and poland benefits too much to give up and have non-free trade with 26 other eu countries. Market the 26 countries　have　is "bit" bigger than uk.

Eu can't allow uk to set race to bottom on food standards(rat poop included in food? Ty no thanks), minimum wages etc so if uk wants freedom to lower those they can't expect to get full unhindered access. The more you follow rules, the more access you get. It's　not on/off btw.uk could accept following some rules for some access. Swizzerland for example follows most but not all(custom union out for example) getting them nearly frictionless trade(not　completely free like brexiteers　claim as example of non-eu having access. Well no full access and are following most rules) with only little checks(vat payments for example) in between.

Uk wants to follow zero rules and get complete access. Thats not possible.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

If Poland and Hungary don't want to be part of a union that respects democratic norms (this is what the EU wants them to do, the point of contention) then they are free to invoke Article 50 any time they want and leave. Of course, if they do that, they will not be recieving any more money from the EU, something the idiots in charge of those countries like to keep quiet about while badmouthing the EU and shovelling EU money in the pockets of their cronies.

As to the UK, the UK will need to normalise relations with the EU, not the other way around. The fly doesn't negotiate with the windshield.

I dont think the price increase is going to hurt as mutch as the drasticly increased shipping times will.

Remember, a no deal means basicly a complete shipping stop between uk and basicly the rest of the world until some taxing systems are in place. I had to rush order some minis from uk early this month just to be shure it would not get stuck in shipping.

Heh. I ordered stuff from mantic months ago and still haven't gotten it. Pretty sore about that, I have to say.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
I dont think the price increase is going to hurt as mutch as the drasticly increased shipping times will.

Remember, a no deal means basicly a complete shipping stop between uk and basicly the rest of the world until some taxing systems are in place. I had to rush order some minis from uk early this month just to be shure it would not get stuck in shipping.

Speaking of, where does Forge World ship from?

 Mangod wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
I dont think the price increase is going to hurt as mutch as the drasticly increased shipping times will.

Remember, a no deal means basicly a complete shipping stop between uk and basicly the rest of the world until some taxing systems are in place. I had to rush order some minis from uk early this month just to be shure it would not get stuck in shipping.

Speaking of, where does Forge World ship from?

England. Except US has it's own section I think but of course this doesn't affect US directly anyway.

In similar way web store items are going to get trickier(and pricier) to get due to this. Bad for those armies where significant units are such. 40k wise necrons have such units, AOS has entire armies with only couple kits non-web store items...

Hopefully my last order from wayland arrives by end of year. Shipped already so now it's on the mercy of post office.

Basically the whole thing is a dumpster fire for small sellers. Large companies have the resource to ensure they are aligned with new rules. Small self employed sellers are well and truly up the creek as the additional costs and paperwork required make selling to EU look increasingly unattractive.

Personally I sell a lot of products to Germany, France and Italy and may remove Europe as a shipping option, at least for the short term until there's some more clarity on what is needed.

Now that I'm getting back in to 40k a bit more I've been ordering a lot of stuff and its all uk sites, mostly Wayland and Element.
Highly disappointed at the idea that I might be priced out of using these vendors, never mind the idea their existence could be threatened.


I'd love to be spending my money here in Ireland, but the showing is very bad in comparison and I doubt we'll see any stores popping up that could provide the variety of stuff we're used to.

I think a thread on EU alternate companies might be due.

I have an order in with Zatu for a copy of Core Space, hoping they get it shipped out for me soon!

 Domican wrote:
Now that I'm getting back in to 40k a bit more I've been ordering a lot of stuff and its all uk sites, mostly Wayland and Element.
Highly disappointed at the idea that I might be priced out of using these vendors, never mind the idea their existence could be threatened.

Wayland etc should survive. After all they still have whole UK to market. Bigger issue of course is if UK removes EU law that forbid company from forbidding sales to EU. In that case GW would likely introduce same ban for UK stores selling their stuff they have for outside EU(wayland etc cannot sell outside EU atm as GW flat out forbid to ensure no taking advantage of exchange ratios vs GW's own's). So at that point even if cost would be cheaper you would need to use reshipping service which would add another layer of expenses.


GW itself can of course sell to you and your local FLGS should be able to continue but prices will likely go up(unlikely GW will reduce their own profit margin...) and especially at the start there's likely going to be some delays for stores to get stuff from UK.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Wayland and others. I know the original RoW GW ban must have hurt them (I used to order from them when I was living in a country that had no gaming stores, they were my lifeline that got cut off).

Speaking anecdotally as a small-time seller (literally just clearing out piles of shame) I would say probably 50% of my sales go to EU, which you have to think is because of the weak GBP vs. Euro makes my prices quite low (even though, for me, they are a reasonable price and I'm not trying to undercut anyone).

I do the same with retro games and again probably around 50% if not more go to the EU, have already cleared out everything I was trying to sell as all of that is going to stop come 1st Jan.

 CragHack wrote:
I'm about to make a 3k euros order from FW to pretty much buy everything I want, so I don't have to pay customs/handling and maybe also deal with potential price increase :/

I wish I could do the same. I'm getting into an army which will have a lot of FW stuff in it. Unfortunately Xmas times and Black Friday have already wrecked my wallet, so can only afford to buy a small amount of FW during late december.

Brexit is going to make being into GW games an even crazier proposition..

What also sucks bad is that many bitz resellers seem to reside in the UK. That's the one that annoys me the most personally.

Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

 CragHack wrote:
Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

For thouse values, yes.

I wonder if uk-eu will develop as negativly as scandenavia-u.s is. Buy an item on ebay from u.s for 5$, pay 15$ for shipping and VAT.........

Really glad I was able to emigration from the UK, as much as I miss my native Yorkshire, I don't miss the hell hole that the UK is turning into.

I've spent most of this year buying all the stuff I need from Mantic, Ebay, and Northstar Miniatures. I now have 6 large armies for Kings of War, Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and Age of Fantasy: Regiments.

Should keep me busy for the next couple of years.

If anyone in Ireland is looking for miniatures check out https://neverboard.ie/

4 years we've been sailing merrily towards this river of sewerage and we still have absolutely no idea about basic stuff that's going to happen because we've got a party that Victorian mill owners might go so far as to decry as "a bit much" in charge.

I think as others have said GW will weather the storm of cack but smaller companies will drown in it.

But then again the whole thing might not matter anyway when we're all standing in lines for our weekly rations of bread and potatoes because you've spent all your money buying tomatoes and citrus fruits.

 CragHack wrote:
Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

Whether you can send it back for free after 1.1 is another thing...amazon won't have free returns if it's not defective/damaged/missing parts items.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

For thouse values, yes.

I wonder if uk-eu will develop as negativly as scandenavia-u.s is. Buy an item on ebay from u.s for 5$, pay 15$ for shipping and VAT.........

One person was looking at bed. Shop had factored in import fees already and put them to shipping. 20 went to 80 pounds.

Over the past few years I've spent pretty much the same sum at UK vendors (Wayland, Element & co) and local ones (my FLGS and Ars Manufactorea in Italy).
I'm pretty confident that deal or no deal, GW will be able to forbid UK retailers to sell GW products to EU customers, just like they are now forbidden to sell them outside the EU.
This means that, deal or no deal, I'll be forced to look elsewhere to buy GW minis, in order to find the best EU prices. Ars Manufactorea currently offers 25% off the EU RRP price and tracked shipping, it's not as good as the 20% off the UK RRP that Wayland offers but it's still better than buying at RRP.

As for independent stores re: non-GW products, not much will change for me I guess.
If I'm interested in something from the UK, I'll have to spend a little bit more and wait a little bit longer for it to arrive. Maybe I'll buy less stuff, who knows?

 tauist wrote:
What also sucks bad is that many bitz resellers seem to reside in the UK. That's the one that annoys me the most personally.

You know the answer to that. Become a bitz seller. Buy the boxes with bits you want, and sell on the rest.
Do you know anyone who you trust to do that. Make yourself a personalised bitz seller, if you just want the bitz. Let them handle the reselling part, and get the bitz for you.

As someone above said, Wayland and Element going behind the UK-EU Brexit wall means smaller resellers get the chance to fill in for their own markets. Waylands loss can be some other caompany's gain.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 tauist wrote:
What also sucks bad is that many bitz resellers seem to reside in the UK. That's the one that annoys me the most personally.

You know the answer to that. Become a bitz seller. Buy the boxes with bits you want, and sell on the rest.
Do you know anyone who you trust to do that. Make yourself a personalised bitz seller, if you just want the bitz. Let them handle the reselling part, and get the bitz for you.

I'm not sure that's going to be an option for that many people TBH.. I want bits, but could I be bothered to start my own business doing it? Absolutely not.

I agree that there will be an element of 'the market will adapt', as it always does. But, all of this extra nonsense and the building of barriers will lead to prices going up (even if it's just for companies to cover their own extra expenditure, and still make a profit) and what was a no-brainer purchase decision in the past (where you didn't really even have to notice where the product is coming from) is now going to become a massive PITA. And I think a lot of people (both sellers and purchasers) are probably just not going to bother..

Another point to consider is should a no deal happend, it might kick 3d printing into a new gear.

Shure, GW will adapt as everyone says, but many other smaller and way more intresting or better games wont, and GW is what, less then 5% of the total miniature gaming world????, we would be looking at what would become games isolated to their own regions due to very high shipping and taxes overseas on their products.

For thouse companys to start selling 3D files of their minis, might be a solution.

Anybody who's read anything on EU decision making knows things pretty much always go one second to midnight before signing on the dotted line. I'd be very surprised if it becomes a No Deal situation, as neither side wants that - even if it's the EU who has to budge a little, although I fully expect the UK government to silently capitulate on a lot of 'quieter' (see: not fishing) stuff as well.

I think it is important to understand the difference between EU countries negotiating with themselves, as in the Eurozone crisis, and the EU negotiating with third countries. It is a different dynamic.
For example, on the Widthdrawal Agreement, the UK absolutely capitulated on all of it, basically going back to an earlier position that was more beneficial to the EU (border in the Irish sea) which the UK had actually negotiated past.

I expect there will be some compromises, but I also think it is likely there might be a "no deal by accident".

What is clear is that there not being a deal in place by now is an absolute disgrace, and the time limit should never have been imposed by the British.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Anybody who's read anything on EU decision making knows things pretty much always go one second to midnight before signing on the dotted line. I'd be very surprised if it becomes a No Deal situation, as neither side wants that - even if it's the EU who has to budge a little, although I fully expect the UK government to silently capitulate on a lot of 'quieter' (see: not fishing) stuff as well.

You're underestimating the frothing going on over here. There is a portion of British society that would "love" a no deal, sticking it to Jonny foreigner and wot not.
Sadly some of them are in Govt, many are in the Tory party and they have the whip hand. They would absolutely go for a No Deal if they thought it would be better for the conservative party and damn the consequences to the rest of the country.

Interestingly I read online that Games workshop is worth more to the British economy than the entire fishing industry. I doubt it, but it's bizarre that at the moment we seem to be willing to chuck everything under the bus for an industry that frankly wouldnt be noticed by the economy if it vanished tomorrow.

 Skinnereal wrote:

As someone above said, Wayland and Element going behind the UK-EU Brexit wall means smaller resellers get the chance to fill in for their own markets. Waylands loss can be some other caompany's gain.

Smaller companies need to get more out of box than rpp. How many bits seller you expect to have market room?

Plus starting whole company hoping it has market room rather than end up ending　in expensive mistake is bit extreme. Not many have sufficient cash to risk it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arbitrator wrote:
Anybody who's read anything on EU decision making knows things pretty much always go one second to midnight before signing on the dotted line. I'd be very surprised if it becomes a No Deal situation, as neither side wants that - even if it's the EU who has to budge a little, although I fully expect the UK government to silently capitulate on a lot of 'quieter' (see: not fishing) stuff as well.

In case you haven't noticed it single market is worth lot more than uk market.　hell corona is already lot more expensive than worst no deal. Uk is not priority for eu. Single market is. Eu won't budge on that. Especially as time works on their favour.

And remember withdrawal agreement? That　was uk 100% surrender going back to what eu had originally wanted and uk had originally rejected...

Edit: also flat out time. Any deal would have to pass regional parliament. After tuesday earliest that is possible is february. Note　average time to scrutiny and approve negotiated treaties is 136 days...going to be quite a rushed through either way.

Didn't things recently just get dialed up to 11 in the UK because of the new Strain of Grandfather Nurgles Nipple Juice #19 that spreads like butter on hot toast? That's going to possibly have a huge impact on table top war games. As more stuff happens as a result fewer people working etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even more incentive for garage companies and consumers to switch to purely digital, 3d printable product.

I disagree here it seems to be self-diminishing. The amount of work time and effort required to make 3D models greatly outweighs what people are willing to pay for it. Meaning that unless you're sculpting yourself like you and I. It's harder for companies to afford sculptors. And a lot fo the stuff just ends up on online for free. Discouraging artists from putting a digital copy online

One of the reasons I will only sell limited STL files online is because it will be ripped off and I won't get paid for it once it ends up on an STL 3D dumpsite. .

It's also essentially like planned obsolescence what happens when everyone has all the STL files they can afford? The market dies.

Sure you can make a quick 10$ selling dumps online. But it's killing the artists and industry.

Less and less people are willing to pay for physical models meaning artists get the crap end of the stick.

I know personally that people willing to pay for sculpting has already been cut down to nearly zero. I have people inqure about it every day but they want sculpting for 10$ a model or less. Because you can buy STL stuff online cheap.

Meaning that I have to raise my prices, and I know other artists that are doing the same. On average you're looking at 400$ to 7000$ dollars for sculpting models on the commercial end of original characters. A lot of people assume it's only like 50$ It costs more than 50$ to turn the lights on and run the PC for the amount of time it takes to model something complex. Similar to the issues with bitcoin mining diminished returns due to electricity bills.



If the artist does not make a return on their investment it kills the industry and can destroy careers. And I know from observation that the majority of the stuff free online is just a copy of some poor guys work that's not getting paid for it. All it takes is one guy in Russia or some far-off country to take your stuff and copy it and you're done. You might get some backers but I'm pretty sure you will not make back the amount of time the hundreds of hours required to sculpt something like a line of miniatures. Why would I or any artist even bother there are labour jobs that pay 100$ an hour or more like moving.

All I can say that if I sell models it's going to be physical copies of the models that I produce in house with resin casting or plastic injection. It seems like the only way to make money from it safely. Anyone considering doing only digital is just shooting themselves in the foot. Real money is in physical production.

I can tell you personally that I hope the STL market dies soon and I know other artists that feel the same. It really really really sucks for us.

 Pacific wrote:
Interesting article, in answer to tneva82's question..

tneva82 wrote:
Better hurry up. Fw has been slower than usual lately. When customs kick in? Based on day of purchase? Or when it arrives? Year end is pretty close so arrival could go to next year

Not even the boss of Hornby knows

Hornby boss Lyndon Davies said: "Within Europe people are already asking us: 'If I buy something, are those tariffs already included in your pricing?' Because we don't know what's going to happen, it's just a very difficult position."

Back to this just read that at least finland charges import fees based on when packet was sent. Before 1.1.2021? No import fee even if arrives after. Can't say if that applies other countries though.

Oh and was told by 3 different sources games workshop is worth more to uk than entire shipping industry. Pretty crazy.

There are many industries that are worth vastly more than the fishing industry, which will all potentially receive a shotgun blast to the kneecap come 1st Jan.

I think the 'fishing' thing has become louder than it should have in the press and government coverage just because of the narrative of 'defending our waters', as though we're about to get fething Nelson out of cold storage and start taking the fight to Napoleon again.

Re. this hobby, am definitely noticing more updates from hobby companies now saying about getting orders in before Jan 1st, the deadline approaches!

I feel so sorry for the smaller cottage industries (of which there are so many in wargaming) that are potentially facing a major impact to their sales in a few weeks time, on top of everything else that is going on at the moment.

 Pacific wrote:
There are many industries that are worth vastly more than the fishing industry, which will all potentially receive a shotgun blast to the kneecap come 1st Jan.

I think the 'fishing' thing has become louder than it should have in the press and government coverage just because of the narrative of 'defending our waters', as though we're about to get fething Nelson out of cold storage and start taking the fight to Napoleon again.

tt's even more funny when you consider that UK doesn't eat generally fish on british fishing waters and instead export vast majority of their catch but export is going to decrease due to tariffs and delays(not fresh anymore). Meanwhile until UK and EU gets agreement both are going to lose access to Norway's fishing waters which is the primary source of fish for UK's fish&chips. So get control of fish you don't eat, lose access to fish you do eat.

Time to market new type of fish for fish&chips?-)

tneva82 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
There are many industries that are worth vastly more than the fishing industry, which will all potentially receive a shotgun blast to the kneecap come 1st Jan.

I think the 'fishing' thing has become louder than it should have in the press and government coverage just because of the narrative of 'defending our waters', as though we're about to get fething Nelson out of cold storage and start taking the fight to Napoleon again.

tt's even more funny when you consider that UK doesn't eat generally fish on british fishing waters and instead export vast majority of their catch but export is going to decrease due to tariffs and delays(not fresh anymore). Meanwhile until UK and EU gets agreement both are going to lose access to Norway's fishing waters which is the primary source of fish for UK's fish&chips. So get control of fish you don't eat, lose access to fish you do eat.

Time to market new type of fish for fish&chips?-)

Dont think we are any different, when it comes to fish, export is more important then national consumption and we export a very large amount of what we pull out from the sea.

But yea, seems this issue on the brexit is 100% political. uk want to take back more controll, but eu cant give more away cus several eu countrys are dependent on uk fishing grounds.
This could very well be one of the key notes that prevents a deal.

tneva82 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
There are many industries that are worth vastly more than the fishing industry, which will all potentially receive a shotgun blast to the kneecap come 1st Jan.

I think the 'fishing' thing has become louder than it should have in the press and government coverage just because of the narrative of 'defending our waters', as though we're about to get fething Nelson out of cold storage and start taking the fight to Napoleon again.

tt's even more funny when you consider that UK doesn't eat generally fish on british fishing waters and instead export vast majority of their catch but export is going to decrease due to tariffs and delays(not fresh anymore). Meanwhile until UK and EU gets agreement both are going to lose access to Norway's fishing waters which is the primary source of fish for UK's fish&chips. So get control of fish you don't eat, lose access to fish you do eat.

Time to market new type of fish for fish&chips?-)

gak, I love Cod & Chips.

To quote the most erudite Mr Blackadder, "Give the likes of Baldrick the vote and we'll be back to cavorting druids, death by stoning, and pickled herring for dinner."

I propose the revocation of universal suffrage.

GW have come out today to say that EU prices won't go up.

"Good news – Warhammer fans in the EU won’t have to pay more for our products in-store or online as we head into the new year. While the details of the UK’s future relationship with the EU are still being worked out, Games Workshop will shoulder any customs and duties fees that apply to your order."

Yet they failed to answer my question whether that will also apply to Forge World products. As far as I'm aware - it won't, so EU customers can say hello to around 25% price increase.

As expected, multiple news outlets are reporting that agreement has been reached on the final few sticking points and that a deal will be announced shortly.

No hint of what it looks like yet, but the EU has a history of brinkmanship when it comes to trade deals, so that it has run this close is no surprise.

The EU offered to extend the transition, the UK refused.
I think you have it the wrong way around.

But I hope for the sake of British businesses that there is a deal!

No, not at all. If transition had been extended then things would have rumbled on until the eleventh hour of whatever the new deadline was set to.

It's just the way the EU negotiates.

Well, it isn't normal to negotiate a free trade agreement to a deadline. Normally the EU just keeps negotiating until it gets what it wants, but there is no great downside to that as the status quo persists in the absence of a deal. With this deal it is a bit different as there is a major downside to not getting a deal within a time limit, as it will cause economic damage to both sides. So it is a very different dynamic to a normal free trade deal negotiation. I don't think you can compare it to any previous free trade negotiation by the EU because none of them had deadlines, and all of them were about improving trade terms whereas this one is about making them worse. So I don't think what you are saying is true for free trade agreements.

In negotiations between Member States, they definitely do always negotiate down to the wire and often compromise amongst themselves, but not in negotiations with non-members.

They don't often negotiate from a starting point of free trade with a former member either, but here we are. This has as many similarities with intra member negotiations as it does differences, but since I saw some correspondent or pundit mention this months ago and determined to look out for it, it's been glaring.

It is a common trope about the EU, I think it was true during the Eurozone crisis particularly. But I think people don't watch them negotiate trade deals very much, because they are mostly pretty boring (CETA and TTIP were exceptions, because the investor courts were so contraversial).

If the rumours about the trade deal are true, it'll be "tariff-free trade in goods [...] It will also cover issues such as police and security co-operation and preserve the cross-border energy market, but it will do little for the services sector. (FT.com)".

Miniatures should definitely be covered, so zero tariffs on goods means no change at all (maybe longer shipping times, but that should be it).

To be confirmed the possibility to order from UK retailers from the EU. I personally doubt we'd be able to, but we'll see.

Any negotiation about anything between anyone and anyone else that actually has a deadline is very likely to go right up to that deadline, because there's always scope to get more of what you want (or more concessions from the other side) right up until the last moment. It's not something unique to the EU (or to the UK for that matter). It's just the overwhelmingly most likely result of negotiating to a deadline.

since I saw some correspondent or pundit mention this months ago and determined to look out for it

So, a combination of British journos/pundits using the same old tired stereotypes/propaganda about the EU that got us into this mess in the first place, plus plain old confirmation bias. Got it.

 CragHack wrote:
Yet they failed to answer my question whether that will also apply to Forge World products. As far as I'm aware - it won't, so EU customers can say hello to around 25% price increase.

Purchasers outside the UK/EU pay VAT when buying from FW right? (or that used to be the case at least)

If so I'd expect it to fall into the 'more expensive' option or category, whichever way that turns out.

 Pacific wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Yet they failed to answer my question whether that will also apply to Forge World products. As far as I'm aware - it won't, so EU customers can say hello to around 25% price increase.

Purchasers outside the UK/EU pay VAT when buying from FW right? (or that used to be the case at least)


If so I'd expect it to fall into the 'more expensive' option or category, whichever way that turns out.

correct, we pay VAT on everything, even digital entertainment.

thats why import is so bloody expensive for the single induvidual. VAT+ shipping + local tax.

No hard Brexit.
Let's see what this means for the UK industries.

What? This is a REALLY hard brexit! Nothing like this was discussed in the run up to the referendum.
It's not a no deal brexit, but leaving the single market and customs union, programs like Erasmus, and erecting non-tariff barriers to trade is a very hard brexit.

The ERG and hard brext brigade should be delighted with this deal. If they are not, it just shows how deeply unreasonable they are.

 Duskweaver wrote:

since I saw some correspondent or pundit mention this months ago and determined to look out for it

So, a combination of British journos/pundits using the same old tired stereotypes/propaganda about the EU that got us into this mess in the first place, plus plain old confirmation bias. Got it.

No. None of that.

 Da Boss wrote:
What? This is a REALLY hard brexit! Nothing like this was discussed in the run up to the referendum.
It's not a no deal brexit, but leaving the single market and customs union, programs like Erasmus, and erecting non-tariff barriers to trade is a very hard brexit.

The ERG and hard brext brigade should be delighted with this deal. If they are not, it just shows how deeply unreasonable they are.

This, it's basically the hardest possible Brexit without No Deal and the fact that it's not No Deal is about the best that can be said about it.

 Da Boss wrote:
It is a common trope about the EU, I think it was true during the Eurozone crisis particularly. But I think people don't watch them negotiate trade deals very much, because they are mostly pretty boring (CETA and TTIP were exceptions, because the investor courts were so contraversial).

Laughs in swiss.

You sire, need some outside perspecitve on the blob that is the EU

Not easy for me to get an outside perspective since I live in the EU and have done my whole life. I love the blob though, and I hope it gets even blobbier!

Yeah, no, except you want a yugoslavia Europe edition.

I want a federal Europe! Absolutely do.

 wuestenfux wrote:
No hard Brexit.
Let's see what this means for the UK industries.

Uuh...this was about hardest brexit possible short of no deal.

Trade has non-tarif barriers now which are real killers(tarif is more clickbaity since it's easier to understand). Whole service section wasn't even covered so uk service market(biggest market in uk btw) got nothing. Banks lost banking passport. No erasmus, lost full access to security databases, no military grade galileo system.

You can only call this non-hard brexit if you　have no idea what it contains and think only no deal is　hard brexit.

This was super thin deal. Which threw most profitable trade of uk under bus for fish. Gues good if you want uk to be nation of fisherman rather than bankers etc service sector.

tneva82 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
No hard Brexit.
Let's see what this means for the UK industries.

Uuh...this was about hardest brexit possible short of no deal.

Trade has non-tarif barriers now which are real killers(tarif is more clickbaity since it's easier to understand). Whole service section wasn't even covered so uk service market(biggest market in uk btw) got nothing. Banks lost banking passport. No erasmus, lost full access to security databases, no military grade galileo system.

You can only call this non-hard brexit if you　have no idea what it contains and think only no deal is　hard brexit.

This was super thin deal. Which threw most profitable trade of uk under bus for fish. Gues good if you want uk to be nation of fisherman rather than bankers etc service sector.

This may be the UK point of view. UK will end up poorer but get the ''freedom'' they wanted.
From the EU point of view the best is: no tariff and no quotas.

The trouble we have with dear old BJ and his ilk is that they put off any other alternative for years and thought they'd be able to swindle something right at the end as if that's a good method of running a country successfully. To my mind the only reason we've limped out with this unbelievably tattered rag of excrement that is called a deal is that utter balls up with the lorries at Dover finally drilled home into their thick privately educated brains that no deal would have been a lot harder than they thought.
Surprising that individual EU member states could happily close their borders at any time because they're sovereign states eh?
Almost like this whole thing is utterly utterly pointless.

Still for people in the EU wanting GW items this is probably the best news tariff wise.

 Da Boss wrote:
I want a federal Europe! Absolutely do.

And this is why we chose to leave.

Indeed. I singlehandedly caused Brexit! Which is cool, because my hometown of Rosslare is getting a bunch of new ferries out of it after years of decline. So it worked out for me too!

Still for people in the EU wanting GW items this is probably the best news tariff wise.

Seconded.
Other goods from UK, probably not unless you want a Mini.

Bayonet&Ricochet wrote:... And a lot fo the stuff just ends up on online for free. Discouraging artists from putting a digital copy online

One of the reasons I will only sell limited STL files online is because it will be ripped off and I won't get paid for it once it ends up on an STL 3D dumpsite. .

It's also essentially like planned obsolescence what happens when everyone has all the STL files they can afford? The market dies.

...

I've heard this a number of times now, printing will kill itself off due to piracy. Yet there are tons of other creative industries, far more heavily pirated and they still continue to release new items and make money. Even the current wargaming market is very heavily pirated and yet some of those companies are doing better than ever.

And to what happens when everyone has all the STLs they can afford? People will just buy new ones. I'm sure a very high percentage of people collecting warhammer have just about everything they will ever need to keep playing for the rest of their lives and some, yet they still continue to buy new releases, more rapidly than ever.

Olthannon wrote:GW have come out today to say that EU prices won't go up.

"Good news – Warhammer fans in the EU won’t have to pay more for our products in-store or online as we head into the new year. While the details of the UK’s future relationship with the EU are still being worked out, Games Workshop will shoulder any customs and duties fees that apply to your order."

I'm not sure this is really good news. Whilst the predicted import fees from the UK to just over the road to Ireland alone are obscene, GW isn't going to shoulder the cost without raising the prices for long. They already charge EU prices for items which never match the exchange rate. Not only that, but I don't think GW get a say in what An Post charge as their admin fee for dealing with imports. It's around €10 on top of other import charges right now, though I've been lucky and not once been charged for any import here yet. Whilst its not as high as some places, its still more cost on top.

The problems will mostly calm down by the end of next year, I'm sure. It will just be another part of online ordering we all grow accustomed too. But you only have to look back a few years when GW stopped allowing independents from posting to other countries. I fully expect them to do the same to Ireland within three months or so next year.

I've prepared for the worse, I've brought a ridiculous amount of stuff in the past 6 months so even if I sat down to paint everyday next year (which won't happen as it's my last term and I'll be finishing my thesis) I'd not be able to paint it all. Plus stocked up on bases, grasses, glues and all the trimmings. I've always brought paint in huge batches, I spend a lot of time at home and hate running out. My group & I also got sick of the book/meta/edition chase from GW and we picked an edition for each of the games we play and decided to stick with it. Not only are we all saving a lot of money but we are going to get proper use out of GW books now. We just don't see the need for buying into each new edition when we don't play enough as it is.

I've a ton of points/money off vouchers for use with an independent and I'll probably blow the lot on a huge batch of start collecting kits (which from the looks of it, GW is starting to phase out) sometime this week. I'm hoping that it will avoid the import charges but I've calculated an amount that even if I paid the rumoured costs, its still a bargain. The start collecting kits are still good value with the 20% or so off and they shouldn't really loose too much value should I sit on them too long and decide that I don't want to use them in the end, but its better than having all that money off at the store and it going to waste.

Trouble is, it's not going to help the hobby overall. I'm not the only one that's done this and though the stores are probably enjoying the current panic buying over the last month, many of us have no reason to buy for a long time after now. The lad I ordered grass tufts from probably thought all his Christmas's came at once, but I doubt I'll order a single thing for years now. I'm sure many of the stores will get buy, but we might see many of them collapse next year, especially the smaller ones that can't or won't pay the cost of having all the forms done for being able to post out of the UK.

tneva82 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
No hard Brexit.
Let's see what this means for the UK industries.

....This was super thin deal. Which threw most profitable trade of uk under bus for fish. Gues good if you want uk to be nation of fisherman rather than bankers etc service sector.

Except the fishing industry over here are calling it a betrayal. It's a joke really, but the press over here lapped up Johnson as some sort of hero blessing us all with a Christmas gift of a good deal.

It's basically the nautical equivalent of clinging to a bit of flotsam after scuttling the ship.

 r_squared wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
No hard Brexit.
Let's see what this means for the UK industries.

....This was super thin deal. Which threw most profitable trade of uk under bus for fish. Gues good if you want uk to be nation of fisherman rather than bankers etc service sector.

Except the fishing industry over here are calling it a betrayal. It's a joke really, but the press over here lapped up Johnson as some sort of hero blessing us all with a Christmas gift of a good deal.

It's basically the nautical equivalent of clinging to a bit of flotsam after scuttling the ship.

Its a different kind of perception.
Even the deal for the fishing industry is not so bad from the EU perspective.
The rest what r_squared sayed is alarming for UK.

Fun fun fun. Trump could learn thing or two about building walls from bj. Bj at least created wall that already has an effect.

It'll be fine. Some of the Cabinets chums from Eton and Oxbridge will roll.into the gap in the import/export and,.for a very modest fee I'm sure, smooth over any taxation and registration issues...

tneva82 wrote:
Fun fun fun. Trump could learn thing or two about building walls from bj. Bj at least created wall that already has an effect.

holly feth, is that WTO approvable even`?
I mean, WTF?

tneva82 wrote:
Fun fun fun. Trump could learn thing or two about building walls from bj. Bj at least created wall that already has an effect.

Source for this is Dutch Bike Bits, BTW, since people might not believe this is really happening. They have included a link to the page on the UK government website detailing the (utterly stupid) new system.

It's everywhere.
My 3D printer's website lists this:
"We don't temporarily accept orders to the UK due to the Brexit situation."
This is from the Czech Republic.
I don't blame them at all.

 Duskweaver wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Fun fun fun. Trump could learn thing or two about building walls from bj. Bj at least created wall that already has an effect.

Source for this is Dutch Bike Bits, BTW, since people might not believe this is really happening. They have included a link to the page on the UK government website detailing the (utterly stupid) new system.

Jesus fething christ, way to go and shoot your own economy.
Actually more like quartering..

Yeah, this is taking back control apparently.

There's
a. Taking your ball and going home,
and there's
b. Letting everyone else play, after you've house-ruled a bit.

Did anyone vote for plan A?

The more concerning part of this is for goods that are part of supply chains for larger products. Seems crazy that this sort of issue would impact them given how interconnected supply chains are.

I hope all the talented producers in the UK are going to be okay.

Further tightening of Lockdown rules in England being televised at 8pm. Scotland going full Stay At Home via law as of midnight.

The vaccines cannot get my body fast enough.

Another fun result. At least for while made in uk bicycle parts won't be sold to uk due to brexit. At least this　is fixable by company changing production procedure(so far parts produced, then　shipped to global distribution in　italy and from there to buyers...you see the issue. Another option　is to transfer factory to italy. Italian company anyway). But yeah crazy system. Seems uk wasn't able to find predicted 50k custom official needed...imagine every country doing this. Oh and store doing the　paperwork needed costs sum that's not insignificant for small companies.

For me in finland purchases from uk gets　hit by 24% hike. Makes 20% discount　uk stores not really option. Getting hit　by vat(is that doubie taxing? I presume uk store price includes uk vap) hurts


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Further tightening of Lockdown rules in England being televised at 8pm. Scotland going full Stay At Home via law as of midnight.

The vaccines cannot get my body fast enough.

Yep. Too bad most miniature players likely way below in queue.

Wonder if new rules will close gw again? Hard to tighten more than tier4 without forcing non-essential　work to close for a while?