Its a cute tie-in. Get some cards money, move card players to mini players as they get bored of the game.
I get the business ploy, but don't care. I like Magic as a concept, but hate the random card draw nonsense as a game. It won't be any better (or worse) with a 40k skin.
As someone who plays both Magic and 40k, I will not be wasting my money on this. Putting 40k in magic somehow devalues both of the IPs at the same time.
Flipsiders wrote: Putting 40k in magic somehow devalues both of the IPs at the same time.
*citation needed
Butthurt doesn't count as a source by the way.
It's a bit like GW and video games.
There's only been a handful of good GW video games (Dawn of War 1, maybe Dawn of War 2, Total War Warhammer, Space Marine (at a stretch), Space Hulk back in 1993, Blood Bowl), with an absolute carp ton of mediocre to rubbish video games. And currently the only one that stands out amongst the tide of mediocrity is Total War Warhammer. Now, had Total War Warhammer been, lets say Dawn of War III, we'd have a situation where the Total War brand would be damaged, along with people not getting a very good impression of a GW IP. Therefore both brands would be devalued.
GW seem to be using their scatter gun again with quite a few promotions like this happening over recent years, Bandai making GW dolls, being one such recent example.
I can hear the cries from Lenton - "Merchandising, merchandising, roll up, roll up, get your pointless 40k (not so)cheap tat here!".
And yet, I fail to see why 40k or any of GW's products even need it...
Sure, why not?
Hopefully I can combine it with the upcoming D&D set + limited edition Bob Ross art land cards + my P9 from ages ago. Let's make a true chimera!
Unless it's like that Godzilla crap they did last year. I was sorta interested. Until I fond out all they did was slap some 'Zilla art on existing cards as "alternate art". No thanks, I wanted to play Godzilla & co.
Ikoria's stuff was kind of interesting. They used the Godzilla art on the "big name" legendary creatures from Ikoria itself, many of which had similar kinds of mythos(protector beasts, facets of destruction, etc) from what I could tell.
Nope, already spend enough money on one. I've never really been a collectible card games fan anyway, there's no 'hobby' aspect, so not terribly interesting for me.
Rob Lee wrote: And yet, I fail to see why 40k or any of GW's products even need it...
More engagement. Not everyone likes the idea of buying and painting an army, but the lore is really enticing and giving people light weight avenues to enjoy it just gives GW more diversity and durability.
Rob Lee wrote: And yet, I fail to see why 40k or any of GW's products even need it...
More engagement. Not everyone likes the idea of buying and painting an army, but the lore is really enticing and giving people light weight avenues to enjoy it just gives GW more diversity and durability.
Buying and painting an army is what 40k is about. GW are a miniatures company. They sell miniatures so that you can...
...buy and paint an army. OMG!
Very doubtful that the majority of MTG players are going to go that route, or they'd already be doing so.
Not sure I see how diluting that down by bringing in brands that bear no relation to miniatures games, and just having people enjoying just the lore, unless GW want to become a book only company (like Osprey Games), does anything useful for either GW or "the hobby" itself. They don't need to diversify and they don't necessarily need any more durability - they've been around for just over as long as I have, and make profits in the 10s to 100s of millions.
It's just GW using their "blunderbuss of marketing +1" to try and push their IP into even more crevices that they really don't need to.
GW may be a miniature company, but 40k is an IP greater than the miniature game. It deserves to be exported to other media, like it has been done with videogames.
It increases the value of the IP, and GW is very interested in that.
Dawn of War I and II did. Your argument is that GW shouldn't have brought 40k to the videogame industry because a game did poorly, ignoring the games that did well.
Dawn of War I and II did. Your argument is that GW shouldn't have brought 40k to the videogame industry because a game did poorly, ignoring the games that did well.
Yeah. Let's pretend Vermintide with a 40k version coming soon, Space Marine, DoW I and II, Total Warhammer with a third game coming soon, Blood Bowl by all accounts being a great port of the system, Age of Reckoning being a solid MMO and lasting as long as it did against WoW, Gothic Armada series still going strong, Sanctus Reach... Just pretend they don't exist.
Only the bad games exist so I can dunk on GW.
There's more games, those were just at the top of the dome. GW's IP is branching out, Rob Lee. We'll see if their foray in to working with WoTC fails or not, but plenty of their other endeavors have produced some pretty solid products.
Dawn of War I and II did. Your argument is that GW shouldn't have brought 40k to the videogame industry because a game did poorly, ignoring the games that did well.
No, my point is that GW are using a scatter gun and trying to inject their IP into anything that goes. There have been very few video games with GW's IP that have done well.
I'm surprised we haven't had cereal brand tie ins or a Happy Meal range.
And it only takes 1 item, such as Dawn of War III to devalue a brand. When it comes to GW video games there's been several, DoW III was just the most recent poorly done title that generated a lot of negativity.
You know, people claim GW's product is akin to owning a Ferrari, a premium product. Well Ferrari don't just allow any old tat to be produced with their brand on it, in fact they've litigated against various poor quality items that have tried to use their brand. GW don't seem to care in that respect. They issue a licence for video games like giving out sweets at a party! There's been rumblings in the video game news/reviews/fan media about it because so many, many, many of the games are poor.
They seem to be following that route with other stuff also.
DoW III is kind of a strange scenario. The company already had the liscense, and produced two solid games in that series with it. Then, they went and stripped out everything that people liked about 1 and 2, leaving only skirmish and a glorified tutorial they called a campaign. To that end, it's not GW mismanaging the IP, it's a developer deciding to make a trash game that nobody wanted from a DoW series game.
I would buy them for the aesthetic value depending on the art, like the blanche and miller cards. I suspect it will be mostly special characters in a style I don't care for though.
Flipsiders wrote: Putting 40k in magic somehow devalues both of the IPs at the same time.
*citation needed
Butthurt doesn't count as a source by the way.
Putting 40k in magic somehow devalues both of the IPs at the same time. -Flipsiders , 2021
there, added the citation for you to understand how its their opinion
Thanks for the citation assistance
Incidentally, if Slayer was looking for my reasoning, it's that adding a 40k expansion to Magic is:
1. Bad for the MTG IP, since Magic has put like 30 years into making a cohesive setting and adding random, Munchkin expansion-esque crossovers into it desaturates and removes much of the unique "magic feeling" from the game. The card Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God no loner feels like the depiction of a legendary villain at the height of his power when he's getting his face punched in by Wormtongue and Rogal Dorn.
2. Bad for the Warhammer IP, since, as Rob Lee said, it promotes the idea that 40k will partner with just about anybody for no particular reason. Which, of course, they will, but that's not the sort of thing you should be saying aloud.
Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard, I guess.
I don't get into MTG due to the random card pack model, but if this is some kind of one off set with all you need, and they maybe do an AoS version I could see myself picking it up.
Oh look at that, they may have just gotten someone who doesn't normally buy MTG to buy MTG. Funny how that works! And the people who do normally buy it but don't want it "diluted" by warhammer can just keep on buying the normal stuff.
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard, I guess.
I don't get into MTG due to the random card pack model, but if this is some kind of one off set with all you need, and they maybe do an AoS version I could see myself picking it up.
Oh look at that, they may have just gotten someone who doesn't normally buy MTG to buy MTG. Funny how that works! And the people who do normally buy it but don't want it "diluted" by warhammer can just keep on buying the normal stuff.
This is a bizarre take in and of itself. Do you think that people shouldn't complain (or is it shouldn't be able to complain? unsure) about things they personally dislike because the CEO of Hasbro isn't going to come down from his ivory tower and agree with them? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
MrMoustaffa wrote: I really dont care for magic but neat to hear for the folks that like both. I can hear wallets screaming in pain from here though
*Raises hand* I'll testify to that. I got into Magic back in the 90's and still kept up with my WHFB armies at the time. So yes, it was very expensive. Not buying back into Magic (40k or regular), and am reducing my overall games/mini purchasing anyway. Got so much stuff already ...
Removed
I think you mean ambition, but Black in Magic was Death, so I'd go with Necrons. Although an argument could be made that Necrons are Artifacts, but a rule would be needed since anyone can play an Artifact, and Necrons Do Not play well with others.
Red for Orks works, since Red = Destruction and War in Magic.
As for Blue = Eldar, easily, since all the time and fate cards are Blue, and even now Magic players complain about Blue Control players like mini gamers complain about That F g Guy.
First, I'm wondering if there will be new and interesting characters that can inspire conversions.
I wonder if the game will operate in a way where it suggests unique missions/ scenarios that can be brought to the tabletop.
I wonder if this will provide an opportunity for GW to show us visual representations of things we haven't seen yet. I've been wondering what an Abbess of the SOB might look like; what the Convent Prioris might look like.
I'm wondering if you'll be able to cut cards and build frames that allow you to use them as portraits for interior detail on custom terrain... or use digital projection to transfer the images to the flat surfaces of vehicles to trace and paint?
I remember trying to run a Dark Heresy game for friends who had never played 40k, and they had a hard time absorbing as much of the setting as they thought they needed to enjoy the game. Betcha dollars to donuts that playing 5 or 6 games of 40k magic would have allowed them to engage.
I'm looking forward to more information on the project. I figure land will become specific planets- or in the case of Eldar, Craftworlds. So it's locations that are favourable to a specific faction...
xeen wrote: I play magic with my nephews who are to young for 40k. I think this will be cool, and may bring younger players into the game.
That might be the corporate thinking. Get them hooked on the IP when young, then they'll graduate to the minis side and spend big (or get their parents to spend big).
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard, I guess.
I don't get into MTG due to the random card pack model, but if this is some kind of one off set with all you need, and they maybe do an AoS version I could see myself picking it up.
Oh look at that, they may have just gotten someone who doesn't normally buy MTG to buy MTG. Funny how that works! And the people who do normally buy it but don't want it "diluted" by warhammer can just keep on buying the normal stuff.
This is a bizarre take in and of itself. Do you think that people shouldn't complain (or is it shouldn't be able to complain? unsure) about things they personally dislike because the CEO of Hasbro isn't going to come down from his ivory tower and agree with them? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Not sure where the CEO of Hasbro got involved. Quasi is just suggesting this is akin to flipping out because there are Star Wars toys in a Mcdonald's happy meal. Or Dragonball or Doctor Who themed Monopoly boards (to cite 2 examples from hundreds).
It doesn't affect normal games of Magic or 40k in any way at all.
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard, I guess.
I don't get into MTG due to the random card pack model, but if this is some kind of one off set with all you need, and they maybe do an AoS version I could see myself picking it up.
Oh look at that, they may have just gotten someone who doesn't normally buy MTG to buy MTG. Funny how that works! And the people who do normally buy it but don't want it "diluted" by warhammer can just keep on buying the normal stuff.
This is a bizarre take in and of itself. Do you think that people shouldn't complain (or is it shouldn't be able to complain? unsure) about things they personally dislike because the CEO of Hasbro isn't going to come down from his ivory tower and agree with them? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Slight misunderstanding. I'm saying your complaints don't matter. Not that you shouldn't if it makes you feel better, I guess.
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard, I guess.
I don't get into MTG due to the random card pack model, but if this is some kind of one off set with all you need, and they maybe do an AoS version I could see myself picking it up.
Oh look at that, they may have just gotten someone who doesn't normally buy MTG to buy MTG. Funny how that works! And the people who do normally buy it but don't want it "diluted" by warhammer can just keep on buying the normal stuff.
This is a bizarre take in and of itself. Do you think that people shouldn't complain (or is it shouldn't be able to complain? unsure) about things they personally dislike because the CEO of Hasbro isn't going to come down from his ivory tower and agree with them? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Not sure where the CEO of Hasbro got involved. Quasi is just suggesting this is akin to flipping out because there are Star Wars toys in a Mcdonald's happy meal. Or Dragonball or Doctor Who themed Monopoly boards (to cite 2 examples from hundreds).
It doesn't affect normal games of Magic or 40k in any way at all.
From where I'm sitting this whole "debate" is rather amusing.
Particularly given the amount of times people on these boards tell people like me that the "GW hobby" is a premium product, a premium brand, premium this, premium that, as if they're somehow part of an expensive members only yacht club and would rather keep the riff raff out.
Even GW had stated similar things to that effect, or so I've been led to believe.
And yet...
I'd wager many of those same people are happy to see GW firing off licences left right and centre for any old tat piece of merch...
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard, I guess.
I don't get into MTG due to the random card pack model, but if this is some kind of one off set with all you need, and they maybe do an AoS version I could see myself picking it up.
Oh look at that, they may have just gotten someone who doesn't normally buy MTG to buy MTG. Funny how that works! And the people who do normally buy it but don't want it "diluted" by warhammer can just keep on buying the normal stuff.
This is a bizarre take in and of itself. Do you think that people shouldn't complain (or is it shouldn't be able to complain? unsure) about things they personally dislike because the CEO of Hasbro isn't going to come down from his ivory tower and agree with them? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Slight misunderstanding. I'm saying your complaints don't matter. Not that you shouldn't if it makes you feel better, I guess.
Sure, obviously my complaints don't matter, not unless there are a lot of people who agree with me and act accordingly. However, I don't see the harm of someone saying that they think something like this is annoying or kind of dumb. If you think it isn't, I wish you the best, but I would personally prefer if these sorts of releases weren't so emphasized in modern Magic and 40k.
I was cool with the Funkos not gonna lie. My girlfriend got me the Space Wolves one (even though I HATE Space Wolves) but it's thr thought that counts and it sits happily on my desk.
Not sure where the CEO of Hasbro got involved. Quasi is just suggesting this is akin to flipping out because there are Star Wars toys in a Mcdonald's happy meal. Or Dragonball or Doctor Who themed Monopoly boards (to cite 2 examples from hundreds).
It doesn't affect normal games of Magic or 40k in any way at all.
that depends on what border the cards end up with. Remember the worlds reactions, specially the part that is region locked out from getting from the vault stuff, when WoTC made the Walking Dead cards both powerful and legal to use in commander?
No, my point is that GW are using a scatter gun and trying to inject their IP into anything that goes. There have been very few video games with GW's IP that have done well.
I'm surprised we haven't had cereal brand tie ins or a Happy Meal range.
And it only takes 1 item, such as Dawn of War III to devalue a brand. When it comes to GW video games there's been several, DoW III was just the most recent poorly done title that generated a lot of negativity.
You know, people claim GW's product is akin to owning a Ferrari, a premium product. Well Ferrari don't just allow any old tat to be produced with their brand on it, in fact they've litigated against various poor quality items that have tried to use their brand. GW don't seem to care in that respect. They issue a licence for video games like giving out sweets at a party! There's been rumblings in the video game news/reviews/fan media about it because so many, many, many of the games are poor.
They seem to be following that route with other stuff also.
Well sure if you believe plastic miniatures have the same value as a Ferrari, I can see how this would "devalue the brand".
Not sure where the CEO of Hasbro got involved. Quasi is just suggesting this is akin to flipping out because there are Star Wars toys in a Mcdonald's happy meal. Or Dragonball or Doctor Who themed Monopoly boards (to cite 2 examples from hundreds).
It doesn't affect normal games of Magic or 40k in any way at all.
that depends on what border the cards end up with. Remember the worlds reactions, specially the part that is region locked out from getting from the vault stuff, when WoTC made the Walking Dead cards both powerful and legal to use in commander?
I definitely don't remember the 'world's' reaction to... whatever you're talking about.
I have friends who are absolute ravenus for 40K, but they have never bought, touched or painted a miniature. They have played many games with the 40K IP though. Fantasy too.
So do I. But I can see it from their perspective. FYI I don't subscribe to the "GW hobby is a premium product" attitude, and it is an attitude among those who subscribe to it. I just see where the guy who mentioned devaluing the brand is coming from.
I have friends who are absolute ravenus for 40K, but they have never bought, touched or painted a miniature. They have played many games with the 40K IP though. Fantasy too.
Warhammer: Mark of Chaos
Warhammer: Battle March
Warhammer: Chaosbane
Warhammer 40,000: Glory in Death
Warhammer 40,000: Squad Command
Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team
Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon
Warhammer 40,000: Space Wolf
Warhammer 40,000: Carnage
Warhammer 40,000: Storm of Vengeance
Warhammer 40,000: Regicide
The Horus Heresy: Drop Assault
Warhammer 40,000: Deathwatch – Tyranid Invasion
Legacy of Dorn: Herald of Oblivion
Warhammer 40,000: Freeblade
Eisenhorn: Xenos
Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade
Space Hulk: Deathwing
Warhammer 40,000: Inquisitor - Martyr
Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War
The Horus Heresy: Legions
Warhammer 40,000: Mechanicus
The Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth
Necromunda: Underhive Wars
Warhammer 40,000: Dakka Squadron
Aeronautica Imperialis: Flight Command
Corsiar Man O War
Didn't/haven't.
So many of those are regarded as not very good at being 40k/AoS/WHFB games or just even the game they are if you take away GW's IP, both by fans and reviewers. And that list above is just a handful of games using GW's IP that have been made, particularly over the last 10 years.
Seems to have been more of a problem in the last 7 or so years, but also only because so many video games get made these days.
GW's video game library is considered in the same way that a library of move tie in video games is considered...
No, my point is that GW are using a scatter gun and trying to inject their IP into anything that goes. There have been very few video games with GW's IP that have done well.
I'm surprised we haven't had cereal brand tie ins or a Happy Meal range.
And it only takes 1 item, such as Dawn of War III to devalue a brand. When it comes to GW video games there's been several, DoW III was just the most recent poorly done title that generated a lot of negativity.
You know, people claim GW's product is akin to owning a Ferrari, a premium product. Well Ferrari don't just allow any old tat to be produced with their brand on it, in fact they've litigated against various poor quality items that have tried to use their brand. GW don't seem to care in that respect. They issue a licence for video games like giving out sweets at a party! There's been rumblings in the video game news/reviews/fan media about it because so many, many, many of the games are poor.
They seem to be following that route with other stuff also.
Well sure if you believe plastic miniatures have the same value as a Ferrari, I can see how this would "devalue the brand".
Although I seriously question that belief.
Nice strawman. Try reading what he said next time, and not what you thought he said.
I have a closet full of MtG cards and tables full of 40k. I like them both, just like I enjoy TTPRGs and Computer RPGs. I can like all sorts of imaginary things
40K plus Magic? Why not...call it warp shenanigans and enjoy it. Or don't and just not buy it. Too many jackwads in the world already...no need to be another one. If you don't like something, that's fine. No need to argue about it. Be happy for other people who will like it.
Rob Lee wrote: And yet, I fail to see why 40k or any of GW's products even need it...
More engagement. Not everyone likes the idea of buying and painting an army, but the lore is really enticing and giving people light weight avenues to enjoy it just gives GW more diversity and durability.
Buying and painting an army is what 40k is about. GW are a miniatures company. They sell miniatures so that you can...
...buy and paint an army. OMG!
Very doubtful that the majority of MTG players are going to go that route, or they'd already be doing so.
Not sure I see how diluting that down by bringing in brands that bear no relation to miniatures games, and just having people enjoying just the lore, unless GW want to become a book only company (like Osprey Games), does anything useful for either GW or "the hobby" itself. They don't need to diversify and they don't necessarily need any more durability - they've been around for just over as long as I have, and make profits in the 10s to 100s of millions.
It's just GW using their "blunderbuss of marketing +1" to try and push their IP into even more crevices that they really don't need to.
I might be inclined to agree were it not for the literally astounding feats individuals have go through to make fan videos. There's a real demand for content.
Any card, comic book, video game, and so on is another opportunity to capture the imagination of kids and adults alike. I got in through Hero Quest and a catalog.
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I was cool with the Funkos not gonna lie. My girlfriend got me the Space Wolves one (even though I HATE Space Wolves) but it's thr thought that counts and it sits happily on my desk.
Ive been playing a lot of MTG arena.. The game is not great... Trying to depend on algorythm for luck just sucks.. But was planning on doing some limited events as by far I enjoy doing drafts/sealed as everyone is on equal footing and its a lot more random. I certainly wouldint want to sink a small house's worth of ££ on picture cards that will loose value as soon as they are banned/ rotated out or my fiancee might leave before laughing at me...
But doing some limited events and selling off my winnings/ trading with people for cards that I can sell would to recoup £ could be fun way. I used to love MTG back in the day but boy oh boy is the set cycle ramped up now trying to keep up is like having new wave of new and different OP primaris every 3 months.
I have to say though 40kMTG concept just doesnt work for me. Not sure how they will do it as MTG doesn't exactly scream; "moar guns.. bigger guns.. all the time". the chaosy theme and WHFB/AOS setting would be far more appropriate IMO. Just don't see it working with 40k... Theres been a few different card games based around 40k already and they flopped. Even the mobile digital verions.. The IP just doesn't lend itself to a card game.
ALSO: How are ever Wizards of the Woke EVER going to reconcile the fact there are no woman space marines?? Surely there will be some at WOTC that will twitter storm the hell out of GW...
I could see it working; land isn't mana, it's munitions (still functions the same, just called something different); instants aren't spells- they are battlefield strategies and gambits; monsters are units. Not very elegant, but functional.
I've played a lot of CCGs. Magic is the most popular, but it wasn't my favourite. Legend of the Five Rings, Rage, Vampire the Eternal Struggle, On the Edge... all better games IMHO. And 40k may have been a better fit for them... But not as much reach as they get with Magic
Flipsiders wrote: As someone who plays both Magic and 40k, I will not be wasting my money on this. Putting 40k in magic somehow devalues both of the IPs at the same time.
MTG has been on a downhill slide with crappy art, uninspired stories and generic and bland card types for over a decade thanks to Mark "I can't ever commit to one design philosophy" Rosewater. I bailed on the game about 10 years ago and this won't make me come back. Also, it really does feel like Games Workshop has become a company that just sells IP licenses. It's popping up everywhere these days.
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PenitentJake wrote: I could see it working; land isn't mana, it's munitions (still functions the same, just called something different); instants aren't spells- they are battlefield strategies and gambits; monsters are units. Not very elegant, but functional.
I've played a lot of CCGs. Magic is the most popular, but it wasn't my favourite. Legend of the Five Rings, Rage, Vampire the Eternal Struggle, On the Edge... all better games IMHO. And 40k may have been a better fit for them... But not as much reach as they get with Magic
L5R was truly unique, and one of the most inclusive and well rounded gaming communities I've ever had the privilege to play with. The stuff that the players were able to do in the early days of the game was nothing short of amazing, and there were so many unique experiences from the Phoenix traitor at the Day of Thunder, to the Naga incident, to the Doji Hatori "egg of Panku" incident. It's truly a shame that the game has died and been largely forgotten by the greater gaming community.
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Argive wrote: Ive been playing a lot of MTG arena.. The game is not great... Trying to depend on algorythm for luck just sucks.. But was planning on doing some limited events as by far I enjoy doing drafts/sealed as everyone is on equal footing and its a lot more random.
I certainly wouldint want to sink a small house's worth of ££ on picture cards that will loose value as soon as they are banned/ rotated out or my fiancee might leave before laughing at me...
But doing some limited events and selling off my winnings/ trading with people for cards that I can sell would to recoup £ could be fun way. I used to love MTG back in the day but boy oh boy is the set cycle ramped up now trying to keep up is like having new wave of new and different OP primaris every 3 months.
I have to say though 40kMTG concept just doesnt work for me. Not sure how they will do it as MTG doesn't exactly scream; "moar guns.. bigger guns.. all the time". the chaosy theme and WHFB/AOS setting would be far more appropriate IMO. Just don't see it working with 40k... Theres been a few different card games based around 40k already and they flopped. Even the mobile digital verions.. The IP just doesn't lend itself to a card game.
ALSO:
How are ever Wizards of the Woke EVER going to reconcile the fact there are no woman space marines?? Surely there will be some at WOTC that will twitter storm the hell out of GW...
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Or they have a Sister of Battle on a card. Pretty easy solution there.
You don't know Magics current fanbase do you? The very fact that there is a "no girls allowed" faction will draw ire from the more rabid part of the WOTC fanbase. I guarantee it.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Or they have a Sister of Battle on a card. Pretty easy solution there.
You don't know Magics current fanbase do you? The very fact that there is a "no girls allowed" faction will draw ire from the more rabid part of the WOTC fanbase. I guarantee it.
The fan base of WOTC won't express enough familiarty to even know there's a difference between the two. Anyone familiar with both franchises has either already made their complaints known before this or doesn't care.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Or they have a Sister of Battle on a card. Pretty easy solution there.
You don't know Magics current fanbase do you? The very fact that there is a "no girls allowed" faction will draw ire from the more rabid part of the WOTC fanbase. I guarantee it.
The fan base of WOTC won't express enough familiarty to even know there's a difference between the two. Anyone familiar with both franchises has either already made their complaints known before this or doesn't care.
I think some people who are very unhappy in their lives and dont buy either of these things, but are very vocal on twitter, will become very familiar with it just so they can look for way to cause a twitter gak storm and try to cancel GW
Query...if people are going to get butthurt about no female space marines, why don't those same warriors of woke get mad about no male Sisters of Battle??
It makes no sense. Why are there no Eldar Tau or Tyrannid Necrons?
slade the sniper wrote: Query...if people are going to get butthurt about no female space marines, why don't those same warriors of woke get mad about no male Sisters of Battle??
It makes no sense. Why are there no Eldar Tau or Tyrannid Necrons?
slade the sniper wrote: Query...if people are going to get butthurt about no female space marines, why don't those same warriors of woke get mad about no male Sisters of Battle??
It makes no sense. Why are there no Eldar Tau or Tyrannid Necrons?
-STS
I think it would be quite funny if GW get in bed with WOTC for quick easy $$$ and it results in a gak storm and bites them in the ass from a PR perspective... It probably wont happen mind you. But there is a chance that it will and I find it amusing.
Whatever the case I am curious how they plan on working it into the card game and if I will find it jarring.
Said before that 8th/9th stratagems felt like MtG. Basically replacing tapping lands and instance cards with command points with multiple different sources books with abilities to spend those command points on. Obviously it's not the same thing but if the stratagems where printed on reference cards it would add to the similarity. It just bothers me going "I'm going to attack with my (unit) and I'll spend 1 command points to use (insert ability here) to make my guys have +1 to wound" as it seems very MtG in it's operation. That and the opponent often having no idea what stratagems exist or what they do so it's a surprise and feels kinda like a "gotcha" mechanic.
All that said GW wasn't happy with the comparison so they literally went Warhammer MtG. Not that I'm doing much with 40k these days due to the current rule set being overly simplistic hot garbage but I originally got into 40k to escape throwing money at MtG. This is the opposite of exciting to hear about. Maybe it will be a good marketing thing for GW but I don't exactly have high hopes that it will do much in the way of generating interest. Besides MtG players are often in/shop at FLGS so it seems very unlikely they haven't encounter 40k in one form or another. Also seems unlikely for a MtG player who patrons FLGS to find much value in GW's closed ecosystem style of game store.
(Sorry if what I wrote is a semi incoherent ramble, very tired with a headache so my generally poor writing skills are even worse today).
To me it really depends how this product is released.
If it's one oft the sets where you can get all the cards by buying pre-constructed commander decks, I'm game. You can then just get the whole set as a "stand-alone" game where you can play 40k with magic rules.
If you need to buy card packs, one can hope that their value drops to nothingness because they aren't tournament legal and then I can build decks from cheap cards. If it doesn't, I'm not willing to spend a pile of money on a game I rarely play anymore.
Putting khorne berzerkers and PK nobz in my gruul stompy deck though? Meh, not a huge fan.
Voss wrote: Oh, a youtube video. I forgot those were the 'world.' I'll be certain to entertain angry clickbait 'opinions' never.
well considering who those people are, and how big their communities are, then yes they are the world. Same way if you take a case study of 2k people you more or less can extrapolate it on the rest of the populations.
And the problem was not with the fact that the cards were printed. But because they were powerful cards, with new abilities and not reprints of older cards with new art, and they were legal for all MtG formats.
The stink from it was big, maybe not Oko level of big, but it was big.
Voss wrote: Oh, a youtube video. I forgot those were the 'world.' I'll be certain to entertain angry clickbait 'opinions' never.
well considering who those people are, and how big their communities are, then yes they are the world. Same way if you take a case study of 2k people you more or less can extrapolate it on the rest of the populations.
And the problem was not with the fact that the cards were printed. But because they were powerful cards, with new abilities and not reprints of older cards with new art, and they were legal for all MtG formats.
The stink from it was big, maybe not Oko level of big, but it was big.
There are certain times when people in nerd culture (and other subcultures) need to pop their heads out of their bubbles and check and see if they aren't stuck in an echo chamber. I think this is one of those times.
For the target audience (random kids (12-22) in a comic shop a couple times a month), this is going to be 'neat' or 'indifferent' and not much else. The former will probably buy some packs, and the latter won't.
For the small pockets adjacent to the target audience, the obsessed will buy a lot, and the ragers will also buy some just so they can be angry about it. Either way GW will make some money and not worry about it.
Sisters will likely have cards in the white and red colors.
CWE will be mostly blue.
Green is best.
CSM red and black.
Marines though? Ultramarines would need to be blue, because WOTC tries to have the image colors fit with the card color. A white framed Gman would look silly.
Yet, the kind of card rules you want to do for ultramarines hardly fits the blue color pie. Rule wise they are more green.
Having them white/green would also fit the "good guys" vibes that GW is trying to put on primaries recently.
Mostly I wonder of the cards will actually turn out. I don't think that MTG needs crossovers but doing them as a goofy little side thing is fine with me. So maybe crossovers should've been silver-bordered?
I would like a printing of Lightning Bolt that has a picture of a dude zapping an ork with a plasma gun, though. Or maybe Char would be more appropriate?
Vankraken wrote: Said before that 8th/9th stratagems felt like MtG. Basically replacing tapping lands and instance cards with command points with multiple different sources books with abilities to spend those command points on. Obviously it's not the same thing but if the stratagems where printed on reference cards it would add to the similarity. It just bothers me going "I'm going to attack with my (unit) and I'll spend 1 command points to use (insert ability here) to make my guys have +1 to wound" as it seems very MtG in it's operation. That and the opponent often having no idea what stratagems exist or what they do so it's a surprise and feels kinda like a "gotcha" mechanic.
If you've only ever played MTG casually, sure, this is what you'd describe it as. But the more competitive you get, the less this is remotely accurate. First of all the land system doesn't have a counterpart in 40k so you can't have either mana screw or mana flood nor is there land destruction, there is no stack and no such thing as responding or counter-wars, no discard (targeted or otherwise) and the only times a player is blindsided by a card is if they're playing cube or happened to go up against a person intentionally using an obscure card for the sake of it.
40K just has a resource system and a buff system. Plenty of games have ways of using a limited resource to empower units.
And never mind that 40k has used stratagem cards and psychic power cards at various different points in its past so this is just redoing old ideas in different ways. Combining the old idea of stratagems with the present-since-the-birth-of-the-game idea of points is not a vast conceptual leap.
Sisters will likely have cards in the white and red colors.
CWE will be mostly blue.
Green is best.
CSM red and black.
Marines though? Ultramarines would need to be blue, because WOTC tries to have the image colors fit with the card color. A white framed Gman would look silly.
Yet, the kind of card rules you want to do for ultramarines hardly fits the blue color pie. Rule wise they are more green.
Having them white/green would also fit the "good guys" vibes that GW is trying to put on primaries recently.
Usually, in magic colors are associated with character traits and alignments - white is order and lawfulness, red is chaos and fire, black is death and power, green nature and growth, blue knowledge and control. Color pairs serve not only combine these aspects, but are associated with certain traits, for example white/red cards are usually displaying ferocious but organized fighters while blue/white often stands for extrem laws and burocracy at the expense of everything else. Those two sound familiarm don't they?
So when you boiled that do to the big factions we have right now, I'd come up with something like this:
Adepta Sororitas - white/black is the color pairing for religious fanatics, with possible white/red cards for flamer/melta squads
Adeptus Mechanicus - artificers and insane scientists both fall into the red/blue pair
Astra Militarum - solid white. Soldiers are white's thing anyways, and their thing is to follow orders and fulfill their duty, no matter the costs.
Grey Knights - the other end of the solid white spectrum. Similar to some of MtG's angels they enforce order no matter how high the price is.
Space Marines - as outlined above, red/white is the color for warriors fighting with righteous fury, zeal and all the other marine buzzwords. Some chapters like space wolves, salamanders or ultramarines might even stray towards green for their more human-friendly views. Gulliman is indeed an interesting character to put on a card since his view is quite different from the rest of the imperium and doesn't really lean heavily into the fury/zeal/rage aspect of marines. Pure blue would be a complete mismatch though, and there are plenty of examples of people in blue armor being on differently colored cards.
Anything related to the lords of terra would probably be white/blue.
In general, white is the core color of the imperium and most cards related to it would have that color, while certain things that don't care much about the imperium anymore like Death Company or Wulfen could be exceptions from the rule.
Chaos Space Marines are clearly deep in the black, as no one involved doesn't thirst for power, and those who don't are working as mercenaries or slaughtering without reason.
Nurgle Daemons and Death Guard would be green/black. This combination represents insects, undead, uncontrolled growth, decay and essentially everything related to nurgle so well, it's a no-brainer.
Tzeench daemons and Thousand Sons. Sorcery and insanity is red/blue. All is dust could be represented by making rubrics or TS terminators as colorless cards.
Khorne daemons and World Eaters. "Kill, main, burn!" perfectly describes the black/red color pairing. They might even go into pure red as slaughter is a self-purpose for many followerd of khorne
Slanesh daemons and Emperor's Children are a bit more difficult. Possible pure black, greed, debauchery and excess are a mostly black traits.
Nightbringers and Alpha Legion both scream black/blue to me. Hiding in shadows, deceit and psychological warfare is at home in that pairing.
Craftworlds - very blue. Seeing the future, powerful spellcasters, attempting to control and influence anything they can is a very blue trait
Drukhari - black, black/red and black/blue. Their general culture is definitely greedy and power-hungry, but there are definitely red and blue aspects in certain parts of it.
Tyranids - green! Big monsters, evolution, hordes of skitters. Nids are the perfect representation of the color green, powerful psykers like the hive tyrant might dip into blue though.
Genestealer Cults - Green/blue and blue/black? This one is genuinely difficult. They kind of join nids evolution aspect with absolute control, but also operate from the shadows and rely on infiltration. Depends heavily on which units are represented.
Necrons - white/black. Necrons are also a very order-loving faction, their rank and file expendable, while the nobles are fighting for power. Reanimation is also an aspect of both black and white.
Orks - solid red. Orks are chaotic by nature, love building contraptions, rely on strength in number and care little for their own wellbeing. They also love explosions. Squiggoths might dip into green if they appear at all, but the basic ork has few green traits.
T’au Empire - green/white. The greater good is definitely a green/white goal, as is the acceptance of other species but their own. Etherals might also go towards white/blue.
For those which I skipped, like harlequins or custodes, I don't know their fluff well enough to put them into a specific category.
Slaanesh is pure red. The opposition of all limits, the total individual freedom.
Craftworld Eldar are mostly blue and white. Tactically they're mainly blue with a preference for unnoticeable manipulation and carefully planned limited strikes, socially they're very anti-red with a strict emotional system.
Just bring back Conquest! That was easily the best card game I've ever played. It made the MTG rules look like the outdated piece of fossilised piece of squig poo that it is. This is 40k. We don't draw mana, we go out there and fight for resources!
It’s funny, the reason 40k is so evocative is that it’s setting is quite well put together as a whole, and if for instance GW just put the federation into it as a Star Trek tie in I can guarantee would be a huge issue for 40k players.
It’s the same response a lot of magic players are having to it, the IP and the worlds, stories and charecter are very important to a lot of players.
The response to the walking dead cards has had wizards change how they are doing this from now on. So it was a big deal.
These cards are a special set, Comander decks for a special type of game. They won’t be legal in the standard sets of play.
They will have a special symbol for its set as well.
My own thought is that they are a great product, but I won’t be happy to see them played in a normal game of magic.
But will probably pick them up for a special games night depending how they are themed.
Sisters will likely have cards in the white and red colors.
CWE will be mostly blue.
Green is best.
CSM red and black.
Marines though? Ultramarines would need to be blue, because WOTC tries to have the image colors fit with the card color. A white framed Gman would look silly.
Yet, the kind of card rules you want to do for ultramarines hardly fits the blue color pie. Rule wise they are more green.
Having them white/green would also fit the "good guys" vibes that GW is trying to put on primaries recently.
Usually, in magic colors are associated with character traits and alignments - white is order and lawfulness, red is chaos and fire, black is death and power, green nature and growth, blue knowledge and control. Color pairs serve not only combine these aspects, but are associated with certain traits, for example white/red cards are usually displaying ferocious but organized fighters while blue/white often stands for extrem laws and burocracy at the expense of everything else. Those two sound familiarm don't they?
So when you boiled that do to the big factions we have right now, I'd come up with something like this:
Adepta Sororitas - white/black is the color pairing for religious fanatics, with possible white/red cards for flamer/melta squads
Adeptus Mechanicus - artificers and insane scientists both fall into the red/blue pair
Astra Militarum - solid white. Soldiers are white's thing anyways, and their thing is to follow orders and fulfill their duty, no matter the costs.
Grey Knights - the other end of the solid white spectrum. Similar to some of MtG's angels they enforce order no matter how high the price is.
Space Marines - as outlined above, red/white is the color for warriors fighting with righteous fury, zeal and all the other marine buzzwords. Some chapters like space wolves, salamanders or ultramarines might even stray towards green for their more human-friendly views. Gulliman is indeed an interesting character to put on a card since his view is quite different from the rest of the imperium and doesn't really lean heavily into the fury/zeal/rage aspect of marines. Pure blue would be a complete mismatch though, and there are plenty of examples of people in blue armor being on differently colored cards.
Anything related to the lords of terra would probably be white/blue.
In general, white is the core color of the imperium and most cards related to it would have that color, while certain things that don't care much about the imperium anymore like Death Company or Wulfen could be exceptions from the rule.
Chaos Space Marines are clearly deep in the black, as no one involved doesn't thirst for power, and those who don't are working as mercenaries or slaughtering without reason.
Nurgle Daemons and Death Guard would be green/black. This combination represents insects, undead, uncontrolled growth, decay and essentially everything related to nurgle so well, it's a no-brainer.
Tzeench daemons and Thousand Sons. Sorcery and insanity is red/blue. All is dust could be represented by making rubrics or TS terminators as colorless cards.
Khorne daemons and World Eaters. "Kill, main, burn!" perfectly describes the black/red color pairing. They might even go into pure red as slaughter is a self-purpose for many followerd of khorne
Slanesh daemons and Emperor's Children are a bit more difficult. Possible pure black, greed, debauchery and excess are a mostly black traits.
Nightbringers and Alpha Legion both scream black/blue to me. Hiding in shadows, deceit and psychological warfare is at home in that pairing.
Craftworlds - very blue. Seeing the future, powerful spellcasters, attempting to control and influence anything they can is a very blue trait
Drukhari - black, black/red and black/blue. Their general culture is definitely greedy and power-hungry, but there are definitely red and blue aspects in certain parts of it.
Tyranids - green! Big monsters, evolution, hordes of skitters. Nids are the perfect representation of the color green, powerful psykers like the hive tyrant might dip into blue though.
Genestealer Cults - Green/blue and blue/black? This one is genuinely difficult. They kind of join nids evolution aspect with absolute control, but also operate from the shadows and rely on infiltration. Depends heavily on which units are represented.
Necrons - white/black. Necrons are also a very order-loving faction, their rank and file expendable, while the nobles are fighting for power. Reanimation is also an aspect of both black and white.
Orks - solid red. Orks are chaotic by nature, love building contraptions, rely on strength in number and care little for their own wellbeing. They also love explosions. Squiggoths might dip into green if they appear at all, but the basic ork has few green traits.
T’au Empire - green/white. The greater good is definitely a green/white goal, as is the acceptance of other species but their own. Etherals might also go towards white/blue.
For those which I skipped, like harlequins or custodes, I don't know their fluff well enough to put them into a specific category.
I mostly agree with this, but if Orks ain't green, then we will get a waagh going
Sisters will likely have cards in the white and red colors.
CWE will be mostly blue.
Green is best.
CSM red and black.
Marines though? Ultramarines would need to be blue, because WOTC tries to have the image colors fit with the card color. A white framed Gman would look silly.
Yet, the kind of card rules you want to do for ultramarines hardly fits the blue color pie. Rule wise they are more green.
Having them white/green would also fit the "good guys" vibes that GW is trying to put on primaries recently.
Usually, in magic colors are associated with character traits and alignments - white is order and lawfulness, red is chaos and fire, black is death and power, green nature and growth, blue knowledge and control. Color pairs serve not only combine these aspects, but are associated with certain traits, for example white/red cards are usually displaying ferocious but organized fighters while blue/white often stands for extrem laws and burocracy at the expense of everything else. Those two sound familiarm don't they?
So when you boiled that do to the big factions we have right now, I'd come up with something like this:
Adepta Sororitas - white/black is the color pairing for religious fanatics, with possible white/red cards for flamer/melta squads
Adeptus Mechanicus - artificers and insane scientists both fall into the red/blue pair
Astra Militarum - solid white. Soldiers are white's thing anyways, and their thing is to follow orders and fulfill their duty, no matter the costs.
Grey Knights - the other end of the solid white spectrum. Similar to some of MtG's angels they enforce order no matter how high the price is.
Space Marines - as outlined above, red/white is the color for warriors fighting with righteous fury, zeal and all the other marine buzzwords. Some chapters like space wolves, salamanders or ultramarines might even stray towards green for their more human-friendly views. Gulliman is indeed an interesting character to put on a card since his view is quite different from the rest of the imperium and doesn't really lean heavily into the fury/zeal/rage aspect of marines. Pure blue would be a complete mismatch though, and there are plenty of examples of people in blue armor being on differently colored cards.
Anything related to the lords of terra would probably be white/blue.
In general, white is the core color of the imperium and most cards related to it would have that color, while certain things that don't care much about the imperium anymore like Death Company or Wulfen could be exceptions from the rule.
Chaos Space Marines are clearly deep in the black, as no one involved doesn't thirst for power, and those who don't are working as mercenaries or slaughtering without reason.
Nurgle Daemons and Death Guard would be green/black. This combination represents insects, undead, uncontrolled growth, decay and essentially everything related to nurgle so well, it's a no-brainer.
Tzeench daemons and Thousand Sons. Sorcery and insanity is red/blue. All is dust could be represented by making rubrics or TS terminators as colorless cards.
Khorne daemons and World Eaters. "Kill, main, burn!" perfectly describes the black/red color pairing. They might even go into pure red as slaughter is a self-purpose for many followerd of khorne
Slanesh daemons and Emperor's Children are a bit more difficult. Possible pure black, greed, debauchery and excess are a mostly black traits.
Nightbringers and Alpha Legion both scream black/blue to me. Hiding in shadows, deceit and psychological warfare is at home in that pairing.
Craftworlds - very blue. Seeing the future, powerful spellcasters, attempting to control and influence anything they can is a very blue trait
Drukhari - black, black/red and black/blue. Their general culture is definitely greedy and power-hungry, but there are definitely red and blue aspects in certain parts of it.
Tyranids - green! Big monsters, evolution, hordes of skitters. Nids are the perfect representation of the color green, powerful psykers like the hive tyrant might dip into blue though.
Genestealer Cults - Green/blue and blue/black? This one is genuinely difficult. They kind of join nids evolution aspect with absolute control, but also operate from the shadows and rely on infiltration. Depends heavily on which units are represented.
Necrons - white/black. Necrons are also a very order-loving faction, their rank and file expendable, while the nobles are fighting for power. Reanimation is also an aspect of both black and white.
Orks - solid red. Orks are chaotic by nature, love building contraptions, rely on strength in number and care little for their own wellbeing. They also love explosions. Squiggoths might dip into green if they appear at all, but the basic ork has few green traits.
T’au Empire - green/white. The greater good is definitely a green/white goal, as is the acceptance of other species but their own. Etherals might also go towards white/blue.
For those which I skipped, like harlequins or custodes, I don't know their fluff well enough to put them into a specific category.
I mostly agree with this, but if Orks ain't green, then we will get a waagh going
They are a set, so likely 4 or 5 decks. With a theme a colour to each.
So maybe, marines as white and blue. Ultramarines. Other chapters may fall into other colours.
Eldar craftworlds with blue and red, aspects all fall into red. But depending on the craftworld picked they could probably do all the colour combo with blue.
Orks, red and green. They big and smash stuff. If they did three colour decks blue as a supplement colour for some weird zappy thrown in.
Chaos green and black. With the absence of white if they go three or four colours.
With black and white fitting necrons very well thematically. Resurrecting, exile working well for how they roll. Maybe blue as a supplement.
Also as commander decks they will have 2 or 3 commanders each, so speculation there could be any special charecter and even maybe some new ones if they take some from books.
Edit- Also for speculation fuel the current boxes for commander are sold as 6
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone who is upset with this idea. . . Like, you being upset about it literally doesn't matter. Such bizarre takes about "diluting IP".
It's a lot more freeing when you think about how you're just a 40k player in rural Nova Scotia and have little to no bearing what GW does with its IP
While I’ve still got tens of thousands of cards in the closet, I sold all the MtG ones years ago, and it’s been longer since I actually shuffled a deck and played any TCG.
How they release this will impact if I pick it up. The Boy has some Magic cards, and knows how to play. We also play 40k, and he’s working up his Salamander army. If they release pre-constructed theme decks, I might grab a few just for something different for us to do together. But I am NOT going down the slippery slope of buying boosters in search of cards for a deck again. If it’s only normal randomized starters, that’s still probably a pass. Not going to put the effort into getting those to a playable state.
I’m OK with the IP being mixed. Back when I played Magic, the lore was fuzzy at best. I understand it’s come a long way since then. So I don’t feel that adding 40k to MtG is any worse than an Arabian Nights expansion. And 40k has whored itself out to any platform willing to take it, so this is no worse then being pawned off on some shovelware app developer. The card format of MtG will actually be a great place to showcase a lot of the great 40k artwork.
No strong feelings either way. We’ll see how it pans out.
There are certain times when people in nerd culture (and other subcultures) need to pop their heads out of their bubbles and check and see if they aren't stuck in an echo chamber. I think this is one of those times.
For the target audience (random kids (12-22) in a comic shop a couple times a month), this is going to be 'neat' or 'indifferent' and not much else. The former will probably buy some packs, and the latter won't.
For the small pockets adjacent to the target audience, the obsessed will buy a lot, and the ragers will also buy some just so they can be angry about it. Either way GW will make some money and not worry about it.
see that is the problem. In US you can go and buy all or most WotC products at stores, but hasbro has stuff region locked. There is stuff which is basic or crucial to commander, that you can get in US, but not in south america or eastern europe. So what you get is people not buying packs, because can not, and getting really angry. It is like not US/UK and indomitus boxs, only multiple times stronger.
And yes stuff like Vault makes WotC huge money, it is litteraly printing money, on top of making insiders play the secondary market with knowladge they have . I bet GW would want to do stuff like that. Like I don't faction specific rules, that you can't get in a WD or codex, but which you can only get through an additional payment, you can only do if you are already subscribed to their APP. And even then this doesn't come close to from the vault coming out every 3 weeks.
I never play MtG with something else then china version, but I do know people who play the real thing, and I don't want them to get angry over stuff like crucial cards they can't get.
I didn't read page two so maybe someone said it already...
This is a commander deck that has a new icon on it to show it part of their new crossovers (Harry Potter is next) that show that the cards are ILLEGAL in standard games of MtG.
This is something I was begging for since the late 90s.
But I'm all done with Magic. Sold my whole collection for dirt cheap. No amount of 40k will get me back into MtG. Especially with Primaris plastered all over it.
All these magic tie ins, will begin to make it feel like hero clix. Oh and Lord of the rings will also be in magic btw. So now Frodo can wear power armor and fire a storm bolter while being protected by samwise who has a lasgun to do 5 damage to someones Ajani Goldmane.
For the people who will love this, I hope its great. However it just doesn't make any sense outside of the " OMG!! Marneus is stronger than - insert flavor of the month new magic card here". Though I guess he has to move to other realities after beating up Avatars, ripping the head off Khorne super heavies and the like. So in that way it was inevitable.
I guess magic paid them a good deal of money for this. As this won't bring any magic players into 40k. The sad truth is most of them know about warhammer but don't buy in because keeping up with magic can be enough of a money hog, same goes for warhammer and the cost of entry in warhammer is large and only getting larger.
Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
So it'll be a limited run scalpers wet dream with limited ground appeal but to current warhammer players.
I think probably most of us played magic ( I did ) or play it still. So it isn't much of a gateway.
Though you might use it as a way to really bother the purists who can't stand dilution of IPs. I mean hell, why not bring some walking dead and Lord of the rings while you are at it ? Really blow some minds.
For those it's for I hope it's fun for them, it's not for me. I hope they do more of this, maybe bring in star trek and star wars and marvel and dc..and and and !...The power is beyond nine thousand..maybe some Dragon balls ? Yu gi cross over ?
I'd personally love a WWE cross over commander deck, nothing would feel better than having the macho man drop an elbow off the top rope onto the emperor of mankind.." OH YEAH !!! "
DeffDred wrote: I didn't read page two so maybe someone said it already...
This is a commander deck that has a new icon on it to show it part of their new crossovers (Harry Potter is next) that show that the cards are ILLEGAL in standard games of MtG.
This is something I was begging for since the late 90s.
But I'm all done with Magic. Sold my whole collection for dirt cheap. No amount of 40k will get me back into MtG. Especially with Primaris plastered all over it.
Unless there was a specific mention of Harry Potter in that article, you might be confusing it for Strixhaven--which "fans" are calling Harry Potter as it's a wizard school.
Well I know some of our players also play/played MtG and I liked their online game. If this is a nice standalone set that's not just a bunch of Primaris I might be interested.
I've seen way too many GW fanboys the past few days nerdgasming over this like it's the second coming, reaffirming their ignorance that the entire miniature gaming universe revolves around Warhammer and no other game exists or is worth any consideration at all.
As it is supposed top be five stand alone "commander" decks I'm definitely interested.
FFG had their 40K card game but ditched it too soon because they wanted to make miniatures games and the GW contract/agreement wouldn't allow it, I wouldn't buy into a full release unless I knew it was going to be long running.
Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
We've long recruited new minis gamers from amongst the card players at the various shops.
Some are people outgrowing Pokemon & Yugio.
Alot though have been MTG players who've grown tired of dumping $$$ into the game & having their cards continually cycle out.
Our sales pitch is simple. Yeah, the upfront cost seems high. (especially for GW stuff) But you're stuff will virtually never rotate out.
10/15/20 years from now? You'll still be able to use 90%+ of whatever you bought today. Now the rules might shift back & forth from good to bad to in-between & back again, & the companies will certainly tempt you with ever cooler looking models, but.....
And if you join us in any of the Historicals? You're stuff will be good forever. For ex; your grandchildren will be able to use your WWII minis.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
More than half of our gaming club, including me, were MtG players long before we started with 40k. Many were recruited from a kitchen table magic round that used to be run by one of our members, some more were recruited by from other MtG rounds who thought it was interesting. The allure of the game is that you still play a tactical game similar to magic, except it's more complex and beautiful due to actual miniatures moving in three dimensional space.
If anything, MtG and P&P groups are the place to recruit people into the game. Nerds like to nerd.
During earlier editions the biggest challenge was keeping people in the hobby once they realized what a gakshow the rules and balance were. If you are used to MtG levels or rules writing, 5th-7th edition felt like kindergardeners making up rules on the fly for a game of make believe. Many players getting mad if you used a combo or optimized your lists (something perfectly normal in MtG) didn't help either, but luckily this is slowly disappearing with better balance. And before you waste your time writing a post about how bad MtG is/was - 40k was still that much worse.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
Many players getting mad if you used a combo or optimized your lists (something perfectly normal in MtG) didn't help either, but luckily this is slowly disappearing with better balance.
LOL good one, you don't actually believe that do you?
AngryAngel80 wrote: Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
Many players getting mad if you used a combo or optimized your lists (something perfectly normal in MtG) didn't help either, but luckily this is slowly disappearing with better balance.
LOL good one, you don't actually believe that do you?
8th and 9th may be an unbalanced mess, but they are a playable unbalanced mess which is more than what I can say of previous editions.
Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
We've long recruited new minis gamers from amongst the card players at the various shops.
Some are people outgrowing Pokemon & Yugio.
Alot though have been MTG players who've grown tired of dumping $$$ into the game & having their cards continually cycle out.
Our sales pitch is simple. Yeah, the upfront cost seems high. (especially for GW stuff) But you're stuff will virtually never rotate out.
10/15/20 years from now? You'll still be able to use 90%+ of whatever you bought today. Now the rules might shift back & forth from good to bad to in-between & back again, & the companies will certainly tempt you with ever cooler looking models, but.....
And if you join us in any of the Historicals? You're stuff will be good forever. For ex; your grandchildren will be able to use your WWII minis.
As well we've gotten some. However none of them didn't know what warhammer was before hand, making a magic deck not really a key component to bring them in as they happen in the same store. They know exactly how much it costs and warhammer isn't exactly a safe bet that things won't rotate out with legends. You could say that to people but it'd be false and with drastic flux in power from book to book, edition to edition you can't even say with truth buy things once and you are good forever, as you aren't.
Historicals, you'd be correct about but many around here bar a few aren't huge fans of that, I am but I'm in the extreme minority.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Magic players, don't want to buy in, typically. Don't want to put in the time to make the models or paint and really don't like the length of games in warhammer and time spent. These are very different games and appeal to different people. I get that there will be some overlap but out of the hundreds of magic players I know, maybe 5 got into warhammer.
More than half of our gaming club, including me, were MtG players long before we started with 40k. Many were recruited from a kitchen table magic round that used to be run by one of our members, some more were recruited by from other MtG rounds who thought it was interesting. The allure of the game is that you still play a tactical game similar to magic, except it's more complex and beautiful due to actual miniatures moving in three dimensional space.
If anything, MtG and P&P groups are the place to recruit people into the game. Nerds like to nerd.
During earlier editions the biggest challenge was keeping people in the hobby once they realized what a gakshow the rules and balance were. If you are used to MtG levels or rules writing, 5th-7th edition felt like kindergardeners making up rules on the fly for a game of make believe. Many players getting mad if you used a combo or optimized your lists (something perfectly normal in MtG) didn't help either, but luckily this is slowly disappearing with better balance.
And before you waste your time writing a post about how bad MtG is/was - 40k was still that much worse.
Why would you assume I'd say how bad magic was/is ? I played Magic for a long time. I obviously thought it was good enough to put a lot of time into. Nerds can want to nerd but with my experience the games are so different that MtG players like the quicker games, no real set up or cost. Once upon a time 40k didn't need constant fees to maintain, that isn't this time however. The editions rotate around quicker than before, models go from good to bad faster and start up is so high.
Is it cheaper to maintain marginally with warhammer over magic ? Yes it is, however maintaining both are awful expensive. Which is something else that keeps too much cross over for many. If they love magic, they want to keep up with that and that costs. If they love warhammer multiple armies and keeping up with burn and churn rules that also costs a lot.
We are just of course going around with personal experience and I think most people who played warhammer with me have at least played or dabbled with Magic. It really depends on if they want to mostly leave one for the other which sunken cost tends to keep most magic players in magic mainly, with just a side interest in warhammer as the start up just scares many away, in my neck of the woods.
Being on dakka this long comes with some experience I also wasn't addressing you in specific, but the reader in general.
I played Magic for a long time. I obviously thought it was good enough to put a lot of time into. Nerds can want to nerd but with my experience the games are so different that MtG players like the quicker games, no real set up or cost. Once upon a time 40k didn't need constant fees to maintain, that isn't this time however. The editions rotate around quicker than before, models go from good to bad faster and start up is so high.
Is it cheaper to maintain marginally with warhammer over magic ? Yes it is, however maintaining both are awful expensive. Which is something else that keeps too much cross over for many. If they love magic, they want to keep up with that and that costs. If they love warhammer multiple armies and keeping up with burn and churn rules that also costs a lot.
Most of us started playing magic in school or college, 40k was for rich kids or people who had armies handed down from their siblings. None of us started before having a 'real' job.
We are just of course going around with personal experience and I think most people who played warhammer with me have at least played or dabbled with Magic. It really depends on if they want to mostly leave one for the other which sunken cost tends to keep most magic players in magic mainly, with just a side interest in warhammer as the start up just scares many away, in my neck of the woods.
IMO the sunken cost is not much of an issue for MtG, if you stop spending money, the hobby will eventually invalidate everything you have. Most of the cards I have are mostly completely worthless today with a few constantly rising in value. You don't really shelf cards in magic in hopes that they will get good again - once they go into the binder, they usually stay there.
Ah well see, that is why I always traded MtG cards like the stock market. Keeping an eye on the different formats to trade low for cards that would shoot up when they rotated out of standard or cash out early at the highest levels for standard cards that would drop a lot when they leave standard.
My binder when I got out, with very few standard legal cards I still floated for a a few thousand, though it has been awhile and yeah I got into warhammer way after Magic which was to start up much cheaper which is the better draw for that game right out the gate.
I'll tell you what was a great investment of time and money, D and D miniatures. Was like a skirmish pre painted models game that Wizards put out for a time, ran a tournament scene for. Put in a few hundred and some smart trades for the key money models and ended up sinking maybe $400, sold it on the way out before the market dropped out for around $2000 or so if I remember correctly. Add in the fun with the game I had, was a great experience.
Side note I know, but just saying sometimes cashing out of an old hobby for a new one can be a positive experience. Sometimes even those old MtG cards can surprise you, some utter trash can sky rocket out of no where.
Heh, I stopped playing competitive during Alara because four-color-best-cards meta was absolutely stupidly boring. After that I did pretty much the opposite of what you were doing - whenever standard rotated I picked up all the power cards which rotated out and were cheap as chips because of that, I rarely paid more than $4 for a card, most expensive card I had I got out of packs or drafts.
That said, I still have the 30 something decks I build for our casual round and since they are roughly the same powerlevel, I can just use them as a stand-alone game. I didn't leave MtG because I stopped liking it, so I never felt the need to "cash out".
g Guy.
