Earlier this week, you met the fancy new Emperor’s Champion, and we promised there would be more to come. Codex Supplement: Black Templars will be marching forth in November – and the Emperor’s Champion is bringing reinforcements. Hold onto your purity seals, this is going to be a hot one.
And in December, we’ll see brand new codexes for xenos and Imperial armies. What could they be? We can’t tell you, which has nothing to do with the Inquisitor looming menacingly behind us…
Eagle-eyed heretics may note the lack of codexes for the Traitor Legions. Do not despair, as 2022 will be a bumper year for warp-based shenanigans.
JSG wrote: I think Oct is supposed to be an AoS chaos tome.
Yeah, it'll also probably have second (third?) wave releases for Sigmarines, AOS Orks and 40K Orks too. There's a lot of stuff to come out for all of them.
Ignoring space marine chapters for a moment, for the imperial release we have the Guard, the Imperial Knights and the Custodes.
Xenos could be the Nids, GSC, tau or craft world eldar and harlequins.
Given the recent rumour engine output I'm going with GSC for the xenos release, theirs a few teases of GSC stuff. Guard are a strong possibility for the imperial one, but we can't rule out the golden boys totally
Ancient Otter wrote: Is October going to be the month of HH box set release as well?
Possibly. It's also the first month of the next quarter of Kill Team releases, so there's potential for that, too.
So yeah, no codex in October isn't the end of the world. GW makes a lot more than just 40k and all that stuff needs release slots, too.
StraightSilver wrote: I think the rather heretical image of Guilliman on the throne surrounded by High Lords (?) might be Agents of the Imperium for Dec 2021?
Edit: Apparently it's the same generic artwork they always use so actually could be anything Imperial.
Yes, it's just stock Imperial and Xenos covers so as not to tell us what's going to happen while pretending to tell us what's going to happen.
I doubt it'd be Knight's, I would imagine it'd make the most sense to do Chaos and Imperial knights in the same release window, as both share model kits.
If I was a betting man, I'd expect Tyranids, as the whole warzone Octarius thing, and probably Astra MIllitarum to tie in with more Death Korps plastics.
This is an irritating announcement. Don't bother with releasing a road map with 3 codices that we've already seen and two unknown. Just say Black Templars are next and coming out in November.
That's a shockingly bad "roadmap". It basically tells us there will be Codices released after the ones we already know about. Black Templars is technically a new announcement, but it was pretty obvious after they showed off the Emperor's Champion model.
Would it kill them to tell us what the other 2 books are? If they really think it would be a problem why give us an empty announcement?
Sobie wrote: This is an irritating announcement. Don't bother with releasing a road map with 3 codices that we've already seen and two unknown. Just say Black Templars are next and coming out in November.
At the very least, we know for sure there are two other 40k books due this year. let the speculation games begin! Also, confirmation on when the Ork and Black Templar books are coming is nice for those folks to prepare for.
Wow, what a crappy roadmap. Why include GK and TS which are released this Sat. We obviously knew Orks are coming and BT is hardly a surprise after Emp Champ shown. The only thing we wanted to see was what was next, and they didn't even show it.
Expecting it to be Guard and Nids based on Octarius previews, although it could be GSC.
At least my wallet is safe for rest of year. Will save for the inevitable Eldar reboot and chaos releases in 2022.
StraightSilver wrote: I think the rather heretical image of Guilliman on the throne surrounded by High Lords (?) might be Agents of the Imperium for Dec 2021?
Edit: Apparently it's the same generic artwork they always use so actually could be anything Imperial.
Na, that's the "default imperial faction" image they used last year as well when they teased Dark Angels.
Going by the upcoming KRIEG models and some pictures on the Ork codex, I assume it will be Guard.
To me this roadmap means that GW is feeling confident enough with their supply lines to give us an idea of what's going to be coming out at the end of the year, even if it is just a vague hint.
Sobie wrote: This is an irritating announcement. Don't bother with releasing a road map with 3 codices that we've already seen and two unknown. Just say Black Templars are next and coming out in November.
That there's two codexes shipping in December, and they are one xenos and one Imperial, is information ultimately.
I don't mind having that. If nothing else, we know there's no Chaos codex releases before the end of the year for example.
The Imperial Guard seems likely for the Imperial one, and I'd wager Nids or Genestealer Cults for the other, given the rumour engine images. I'd be surprised if the other was Eldar, as I suspect there's a fair sized range refresh coming and I doubt that happens quite so soon after Orks.
Nobody does disappointment better than GW, would have been better not teasing a roadmap at all.
So, how many months is that now between 2W marines and 2W chaos marines? If it released in January...16 months? At the earliest. That's really, really poor.
bullyboy wrote: Nobody does disappointment better than GW, would have been better not teasing a roadmap at all.
So, how many months is that now between 2W marines and 2W chaos marines? If it released in January...16 months? At the earliest. That's really, really poor.
That or they're both placeholder art entirely and tell us absolutely nothing.
They are placeholders. The images have already been used at the beginning of 9th.
I already said this, but mark my words. CSM will get their Codex last but GW will announce supplements for each Legion until 6 months later 10th is announced
Slipspace wrote: That's a shockingly bad "roadmap". It basically tells us there will be Codices released after the ones we already know about. Black Templars is technically a new announcement, but it was pretty obvious after they showed off the Emperor's Champion model.
Would it kill them to tell us what the other 2 books are? If they really think it would be a problem why give us an empty announcement?
If they announce the upcoming codices, then they get no further sales on them for several months. I may be overly cynical…
So if CSM/Daemons are next year, that means 2023 is going to be a huge loyalist Marine push with new supplements or they’re jumping right into 10th edition. Either way the cycle of Chaos having the worst books will begin anew.
bullyboy wrote: Nobody does disappointment better than GW, would have been better not teasing a roadmap at all.
So, how many months is that now between 2W marines and 2W chaos marines? If it released in January...16 months? At the earliest. That's really, really poor.
So no info better than info?
OK, so basically here is GW idea of info (that you seem happy about?)
This year is 2021.
Beginning January 1st, we start the year 2022. Now I'm excited.
It's info....but not exactly something we didn't already know was coming.
Slipspace wrote: That's a shockingly bad "roadmap". It basically tells us there will be Codices released after the ones we already know about. Black Templars is technically a new announcement, but it was pretty obvious after they showed off the Emperor's Champion model.
Would it kill them to tell us what the other 2 books are? If they really think it would be a problem why give us an empty announcement?
If they announce the upcoming codices, then they get no further sales on them for several months. I may be overly cynical…
Good point. I imagine they lost at least some sales on bb2016 when bb2020 was leaked super early.
I mean we did have the rumour of World Eaters getting their own Codex a few days ago by the same guy who apparently teased all models of the upcoming BT release as well.
Abaddon303 wrote: Eagle-eyed heretics may note how the article explicitly says 'codexes':
"Eagle-eyed heretics** may note the lack of codexes for the Traitor Legions."
Does that mean WE and EC getting their own codexes? I'm inclined to think more likely supplements to a main CSM dex
Why would WE and EC be supplements when TS and DG have codexes?
Because full codexes would imply a much larger model release than supplements that can use the existing CSM units and rules while just adding a few unique units for flavour
I'd hope its either Genestealers, Tyranids or Tau in that Xenos slot - all are fairly well rounded armies that don't need a big release of models. A few additions or updates are all that's really needed.
Eldar or Tau Auxiliaries (which I hope becomes a thing) are either big line updates or totally new additions for the most part . So I'd rather see them in their own big slot to get a nice meaty release.
a_typical_hero wrote: I mean we did have the rumour of World Eaters getting their own Codex a few days ago by the same guy who apparently teased all models of the upcoming BT release as well.
Tyranids makes sense as they are in the current 40K campaign system right now. And they basically don't need any big new models or anything - a few would be nice to update to plastic, but otherwise GW can push them out even with just a book if need be
Overread wrote: Tyranids makes sense as they are in the current 40K campaign system right now. And they basically don't need any big new models or anything - a few would be nice to update to plastic, but otherwise GW can push them out even with just a book if need be
They haven't had a miniature release in almost a decade, so take that back.
Overread wrote: I'd hope its either Genestealers, Tyranids or Tau in that Xenos slot - all are fairly well rounded armies that don't need a big release of models. A few additions or updates are all that's really needed.
Eldar or Tau Auxiliaries (which I hope becomes a thing) are either big line updates or totally new additions for the most part . So I'd rather see them in their own big slot to get a nice meaty release.
T'au are not remotely well rounded. They are okay in only one phase, and are perhaps the worst army in the game rn. What T'au seriously need is a big updated to their auxiliaries to round out all the holes in their army - psychic auxiliaries, durable melee auxiliaries etc. And by God, do not make them a separate army.
Overread wrote: Tyranids makes sense as they are in the current 40K campaign system right now. And they basically don't need any big new models or anything - a few would be nice to update to plastic, but otherwise GW can push them out even with just a book if need be
They haven't had a miniature release in almost a decade, so take that back.
But most of their current models are darn good already - they got some huge releases.
I agree I'm right there with you wanting plastic lictors and biovore/pyrovores. I want t osee new gaunts if JUST so they don't have split heads to assemble
However otherwise most of the kits are great. It's not so much they need new things just refinement - eg a new carnifex with a bit less wear on the mould and spore towers with more detailing .
I just see Tyranids as being in a really good spot - certainly compared to many other forces. They don't need a Necron or SoB sized update
Abaddon303 wrote: Eagle-eyed heretics may note how the article explicitly says 'codexes':
"Eagle-eyed heretics** may note the lack of codexes for the Traitor Legions."
Does that mean WE and EC getting their own codexes? I'm inclined to think more likely supplements to a main CSM dex
If GW are intending to update either WE or EC into a full fledged faction then the main CSM book is a problem for them. If that codex is out first they have to print rules that get invalidated within a few months and everyone complains they got ripped off. Or they have to leave both factions out of the book, letting the cat out of the bag if a large range release a long time away.
I'm starting to think there's a real possibility that WE / ECboth get the upgrade treatment at the same time in 2022, rather than leaving one stuck behind in the CSM book. A boxed set with new core models for both factions would make a lot of sense thematically, and can be followed up with codexes & the rest of their model ranges later. In between they can put out an updated CSM codex by itself without worrying about it being tied to either faction.
I think it will be interesting to see what is in the 'launch box' for black templars. This might give an indication of what they could do with EC or WE.
As you say, including core models for the factions, perhaps a new model for Lucius along with noise marines. Only thing is Kharn is a newish sculpt but perhaps something else alongside berzerkers?
Ghaz wrote: To me this roadmap means that GW is feeling confident enough with their supply lines to give us an idea of what's going to be coming out at the end of the year, even if it is just a vague hint.
You're reading too much into it. They gave us a solid release schedule for ate '20/early '21 as well. Remember how that turned out?
Ghaz wrote: To me this roadmap means that GW is feeling confident enough with their supply lines to give us an idea of what's going to be coming out at the end of the year, even if it is just a vague hint.
You're reading too much into it. They gave us a solid release schedule for ate '20/early '21 as well. Remember how that turned out?
Yeah GW should really have a working crystal ball to predict future global logistics crises. What a gak company
The guy going by the name "Chapter Master Valrak" is mostly active on the Bolter & Chainsword forum and seems to be in the know for BT.
Thank you. It's interesting, it feels like the rumor mill over here on dakka has gone pretty quiet outside of the official channels but it still seems to be active on B&C. There's a lot of chaff to get through over there but it feels like there are some credible rumors too.
Overread wrote: Tyranids makes sense as they are in the current 40K campaign system right now. And they basically don't need any big new models or anything - a few would be nice to update to plastic, but otherwise GW can push them out even with just a book if need be
They haven't had a miniature release in almost a decade, so take that back.
Other than replacing finecrap they don't need anything modelwise.
The guy going by the name "Chapter Master Valrak" is mostly active on the Bolter & Chainsword forum and seems to be in the know for BT.
Thank you. It's interesting, it feels like the rumor mill over here on dakka has gone pretty quiet outside of the official channels but it still seems to be active on B&C. There's a lot of chaff to get through over there but it feels like there are some credible rumors too.
the rumor mill is active here too, it just gets a little lost and you have to wade through the same people having the same arguments over and over and over...
The guy going by the name "Chapter Master Valrak" is mostly active on the Bolter & Chainsword forum and seems to be in the know for BT.
Thank you. It's interesting, it feels like the rumor mill over here on dakka has gone pretty quiet outside of the official channels but it still seems to be active on B&C. There's a lot of chaff to get through over there but it feels like there are some credible rumors too.
In terms of rumours you should look at these two posts, they are both by the same person and he also correctly called the Octarius Kill Team boxset back in November 2020
Of course still just rumours so take it with a grain of salt
Ghaz wrote: To me this roadmap means that GW is feeling confident enough with their supply lines to give us an idea of what's going to be coming out at the end of the year, even if it is just a vague hint.
You're reading too much into it. They gave us a solid release schedule for ate '20/early '21 as well. Remember how that turned out?
Yes and I imagine GW does as well. So if GW is willing to release a codex roadmap despite what happened to the late 2020/early 2021 roadmap and all the flak they received for the missed dates, then they must feel confident enough that they will be able to deliver this time around.
zend wrote: So if CSM/Daemons are next year, that means 2023 is going to be a huge loyalist Marine push with new supplements or they’re jumping right into 10th edition. Either way the cycle of Chaos having the worst books will begin anew.
bullyboy wrote: Nobody does disappointment better than GW, would have been better not teasing a roadmap at all.
So, how many months is that now between 2W marines and 2W chaos marines? If it released in January...16 months? At the earliest. That's really, really poor.
So no info better than info?
OK, so basically here is GW idea of info (that you seem happy about?)
This year is 2021.
Beginning January 1st, we start the year 2022. Now I'm excited.
It's info....but not exactly something we didn't already know was coming.
Ah so you knew already there was exactly 4 codex left to be released in 2021 after gk/ts ?
And ts would be last chaos codex this year?
Just because you can't read info out of article doesn't mean everybody is equally bad at it.
In terms of rumours you should look at these two posts, they are both by the same person and he also correctly called the Octarius Kill Team boxset back in November 2020
Of course still just rumours so take it with a grain of salt
Astra Militarum with veteran-style Cadians. Two new regiments are also in the works. New Kasrkin and new vehicle, designed to fit between the Leman Russ and the Baneblade.
Even if there were not any codexes for me in the roadmap, I'm not too disappointed. I've enjoyed almost back to back releases this year (more like every other but anyway).
Too bad 2 of codexes are about to be released, 1 is waiting for nonlimited release. Last 3 may give some excitement but they are at the end of year.
The wording used when Traitor Legions were mentioned got my hopes though, probably to let me down on later.
Overread wrote: Tyranids makes sense as they are in the current 40K campaign system right now. And they basically don't need any big new models or anything - a few would be nice to update to plastic, but otherwise GW can push them out even with just a book if need be
Given their previous presence in Kill Team, I'd say the Lictor / Deathleaper is a strong candidate for a release before december...
Definitely interesting statement about Traitor Legions. Is it just flowery language for Codex Chaos Space Marines? A hint that Emperor’s Children and World Eaters are getting codexes? Or that there will be Traitor Legion supplements along with the Codex?
alextroy wrote: Definitely interesting statement about Traitor Legions. Is it just flowery language for Codex Chaos Space Marines? A hint that Emperor’s Children and World Eaters are getting codexes? Or that there will be Traitor Legion supplements along with the Codex?
Probably just the Chaos Marine codex, since they badly need their obligatory 'RAW says 2-wounds' since GW refuse to just Errata it.
I don't think Squats are any less likely than Genestealer Cults or Custodes were.
There's obviously a well known 'legend' about them, they're memed enough in a fandom that they're widely known so have a potential plug in via sheer meme factor. How much hype/marketing is going to get done by "omg squats finally maybe plastic thunderhawk next XDDDDDDDD"
It's also an excuse to potentially make yet another Imperial faction, even though Demiurg would be a million times more interesting.
Dudeface wrote: Aaaand the rumours on B&C have been discretely removed, no explanation that I can see either. Possibly a sign of fear of GW retaliation?
A lot of places purged the Horus Heresy leaks as well - I don't think B&C did? - so maybe they did get too close to the truth.
Overread wrote: Tyranids makes sense as they are in the current 40K campaign system right now. And they basically don't need any big new models or anything - a few would be nice to update to plastic, but otherwise GW can push them out even with just a book if need be
They haven't had a miniature release in almost a decade, so take that back.
But most of their current models are darn good already - they got some huge releases.
I agree I'm right there with you wanting plastic lictors and biovore/pyrovores. I want t osee new gaunts if JUST so they don't have split heads to assemble
However otherwise most of the kits are great. It's not so much they need new things just refinement - eg a new carnifex with a bit less wear on the mould and spore towers with more detailing .
I just see Tyranids as being in a really good spot - certainly compared to many other forces. They don't need a Necron or SoB sized update
'Nids are my secondary army after Marines and I 100% agree with this statement, aside from the Finecast the current 'nid line is really good overall.
The 'gaunts are probably the weakest link between the split heads and the leg bits that don't quite fit together properly without trimming (and Hormagaunts being so easy to assemble so they don't actually stand up on the bases), with special mention going to the Ripper Swarms for not having a box of their own.
On a different note GW taking this [CENSORED] long to update basic CSM to W2 is just stupid. "Oh by the way CMS, Noise Marines, and Berserkers are now W2 and cost 18, 20, and 20 points respectively" would be 30 seconds worth of work and they [CENSORED] ought to have done it five minutes after the Loyalist codex dropped.
Yup, I pasted it in spoilers the post next to the one with the links, it accidentally double posted as well so I know it went through.
Did you delete the contents of the "double post"?
Dakka has a hiccup that happens sometimes where it shows as a "double post" to you, but it really is just a single post. It fixes itself after a few minutes.
Usually if a post is "deleted" by a moderator? It gets moved to an 'eyes only' section of the forum. I don't see anything for your post history showing up in the "Other" bit where those things go.
Yup, I pasted it in spoilers the post next to the one with the links, it accidentally double posted as well so I know it went through.
Did you delete the contents of the "double post"?
Dakka has a hiccup that happens sometimes where it shows as a "double post" to you, but it really is just a single post. It fixes itself after a few minutes.
Usually if a post is "deleted" by a moderator? It gets moved to an 'eyes only' section of the forum. I don't see anything for your post history showing up in the "Other" bit where those things go.
Unsure in that case but willing to risk and experiment for visibility:
Edit: removed out of respect for the original authors wishes, they were unable to explain why publicly but had them taken down elsewhere.
Now that these links are dead, anyone got a summary?
For chaos at least, new bikers, chosen, cultists, and traitor guard. For guard, new kasrkin, vets, and a new tank halfway between a bane blade and a russ. Didn't really pay attention beyond that.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Let's all have a discussion about rumours only 4 posters actually got to see.
They're out there in other places if you look, but there's a need to respect the sources wishes.
Well that just makes them sound "rumours"'. Aka bogus
Considering the rumorposter had called out "Death Korps of Krieg squad in a Kill Team 2nd edition box with Kommandos and Ork terrain"...it has a bit more credibility to start with.
This is the internet, they shouldn't have posted it if they were afraid of it getting shared around. Here's the part related to next year:
In January 2022, we will get:
T'au:
Codex with reworked plastic Darkstrider
After January 2022, we will get (in no as-of-yet defined order):
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed,
Bikers,
Chosen,
Warpsmith,
Cultists (BSF-style),
Renegade Guard (BSF-style),
human mutants,
possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11),
cultist standard bearer (character),
cultist character with bodyguards.
Chaos Knights:
New Knight variant with Codex
Craftworld Eldar:
A massive, but incomplete, update of Eldar
Without a specific date but in the pipeline:
Squats
World Eaters
Daemons
Astra Militarum with veteran-style Cadians. Two new regiments are also in the works. New Kasrkin and new vehicle, designed to fit between the Leman Russ and the Baneblade.
Now that these links are dead, anyone got a summary?
Full text here, I copy pasted it before it got taken down:
Heard third-hand from the same person that provided me with this rumour; to be digested with the usual pinch of salt.
September 2021:
New Ork releases alongside a Black Templars army box, similar to the Sisters' and Beast Snaggas' boxes, containing:
Codex
Cards
Crusader Squad (6 Initiates and 4 Neophytes)
Emperor's Champion
Seneshal
Redemptor
October and November 2021:
Complete BT release with
Ancient,
Helbrecht,
Grimaldus,
Emperor's Champion,
Seneshal,
Initiates (6 Marines with Intercessor CC equipment or auto bolt rifles),
4 Neophytes (boltguns or chainsword).
The Crusader kit will have options for a Sword Brother unit leader with cape, and there's a 15" AP-1 flamer.
The Sword Brother kit will have plenty of CC options and the option to make a Marshal (like with the Custodes Warden kit that gives you the option of making a Captain).
There will be two Crusader Squads: the old one that everyone knows and a new one made up exclusively of Primaris. The latter will be 5-11 Primaris Initiates, 4-8 Primaris Neophytes, and 1 Primaris Sword Brother. Neophytes will have 2 W and 2 A like other Primaris.
There'll also be a conversion/bitz/upgrade sprue that will have Templar relics on it (so-and-so's helmet, the sword of such-and-such, etc.), shotguns for Neophytes. and more customisation options like extra arms (Neophyte holding a helmet), or backpack-mounted candles. There will also be a multi-melta which will become a BT vehicle option. It'll replace the stubber on Primaris vehicles.
There will also be a Kill Team box with Sisters Neophytes (new kit and unit entry) vs T'au Pathfinders (upgrade kit) with existing Imperial city terrain.
December 2021:
Custodes and Genestealer Cults with a box, similar to the Hexfire (TS v GK) one, containing both factions, with a new character for each: GSC Saboteur and Custodes Lieutenant.
In January 2022, we will get:
T'au:
Codex with reworked plastic Darkstrider
After January 2022, we will get (in no as-of-yet defined order):
CSM:
Plenty of new kits for 9th Edition.
Regular Possessed,
Bikers,
Chosen,
Warpsmith,
Cultists (BSF-style),
Renegade Guard (BSF-style),
human mutants,
possessed humans (the latter two are monstrously horrible. Think of the Greater Possessed but cranked up to 11),
cultist standard bearer (character),
cultist character with bodyguards.
Chaos Knights:
New Knight variant with Codex
Craftworld Eldar:
A massive, but incomplete, update of Eldar
Without a specific date but in the pipeline:
Squats
World Eaters
Daemons
Astra Militarum with veteran-style Cadians. Two new regiments are also in the works. New Kasrkin and new vehicle, designed to fit between the Leman Russ and the Baneblade.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Let's all have a discussion about rumours only 4 posters actually got to see.
They're out there in other places if you look, but there's a need to respect the sources wishes.
Well that just makes them sound "rumours"'. Aka bogus
Of course they're rumours, until the items are out and become facts they have to be.
Bit closer to home for me on this one. When I put the Internets first picture of a custode up years back, the place it came from (2nd/3rd hand to me) could have gotten into a lot of trouble. I posted it because I didn't know where it came from and thought it was common knowledge and spent days feeling bad for the guy who took the photo, as they were panicking about ramifications to their job.
I'd rather not need to worry about that again, so they are out there and I'm sure other people here have them, but I don't want to cause someone else trouble because I knowingly reposted the rumours.
The guy who posted those rumours is a top bloke and not the kind who seeks attention. Will be rapidly apparent whether they're true or not anyway. For my sake I hope they are as I really, really want a new Possessed kit.
On the one hand this release schedule is still a much better than previous editions. On the other it was looking like we might get a codex a month for a minute, which I think got everyone's hopes up, and now that is dashed.
I got my TS book so can't really complain too much, however, this release schedule is just an even more slap in the face to CSM players not getting the additional wound. There is no reason they couldn't, or can't, just FAQ and additional wound to CSM, Chosen, Raptor, Terminator, Warp talon, Bike, Beskerer, Noise Marine (just FAQ the new data sheet for PM and Rubrics) and Havocs. Yea maybe some other units get more wounds when the codex drops, but the above are all the units that most definitely will get a wound increase. It is one thing for the SM book to come out and there are a few months before a 2 wound update for CSM, but over a year, maybe longer. No way to justify that especially since they updated the weapons!
Oh, just in case this wasn't noted elsewhere: this rumour poster predicted the 10 man DKOK box in Nov 2020, where he also mentioned the "Veteran Cadian" redo.
Not too happy with squats coming back. Always the tought that they were lame and boring. Would have much better liked a new and more original addition to the game
If Squats come back - and they might well be called Demiurge or such - they won't be anything like the original ones. The open letter about why they were removed basically outright said that Squats just didn't work as they made the setting a bit more serious and didn't really have any powerful champion in the design team at the time.
Demiurge were designed to replace them, but never really broke out of Battlefleet Gothic.
We have seen one or two in Necromunda as characters so who knows perhaps they will make a return; but if they do they'll be very different to the "Squats of Old"
Overread wrote: If Squats come back - and they might well be called Demiurge or such - they won't be anything like the original ones. The open letter about why they were removed basically outright said that Squats just didn't work as they made the setting a bit more serious and didn't really have any powerful champion in the design team at the time.
Demiurge were designed to replace them, but never really broke out of Battlefleet Gothic.
We have seen one or two in Necromunda as characters so who knows perhaps they will make a return; but if they do they'll be very different to the "Squats of Old"
Virtually no-one is left from the 40k design team of that time though - that was something like 20 years ago.
Aye, which means whoever did design original Squats is long gone and the army itself has been gone that whilst "squatting" is a thing most gamers understand, very few around new ever actually saw a squat army.
Interesting stuff, and some great things to look forward to if true.
I find it convenient that these rumors are posted the day that the codex "roadmap" gets made on WarCom. There's a theory that GW purposefully releases rumors to get people talking and speculating, letting things leak, though I feel that this is more than they might have intended to leak.
Certainly gives us more to talk about. Let's take a look at some Rumor Engines that could match up with some of the rumors:
Spoiler:
Could be the Chaos Cultist Icon Bearer
Spoiler:
Could be a boot of the "Neophyte Sisters of Battle Unit"
Spoiler:
Could be the Candle bits on top of new Black Templar models.
Spoiler:
Very clearly points at the Genestealer Cult 'Saboteur' model that's hinted for the Custodes vs. Genestealer Cult box
Spoiler:
Obviously Chaos. Could be part of the new Cultists or Warpsmith.
Spoiler:
This one surprisingly doesn't match up with any of the Krieg models we've seen so far. Could be for Kasrkin or Veteran Cadians.
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This one has 'Black Templar Ancient' written all over it.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
These two could very well be the first of the Squats. Many people were pointing towards Kharadron Overlords, but the style just didn't seem to match quite right.
Spoiler:
This here could be part of Kasrkin/Veteran Cadians, or could be another angle of the GSC Saboteur.
Spoiler:
Very clearly a vehicle or terrain piece, and could be the new LemanRuss/Baneblade tank.
The predictions cover quite a lot of ground of the various rumor engines we've seen, and may even explain a few others too. There was also a Kill Team rumor a while ago on Faeit that said this:
"There will be new and old Models for KT, with new Specialist Sprues.
Craftworld Eldar, Tau Empire or Agents of the Imperium will set such Sets.
There will be also some completely new or unexpected Factions."
Which gives some credence to the Tau Pathfinders getting a new upgrade sprue in their box.
zend wrote: So if CSM/Daemons are next year, that means 2023 is going to be a huge loyalist Marine push with new supplements or they’re jumping right into 10th edition. Either way the cycle of Chaos having the worst books will begin anew.
Nah, you're being too optimistic. Chaos will be squeezed in as short releases in 2022 and Loyalist Marines 9.5 will be the focus for the year.
Overread wrote: Aye, which means whoever did design original Squats is long gone and the army itself has been gone that whilst "squatting" is a thing most gamers understand, very few around new ever actually saw a squat army.
Your looking for Bob Olley.
He's already got them covered. Most of the ranges have new homes, Links added for the Info.
xeen wrote: On the one hand this release schedule is still a much better than previous editions. On the other it was looking like we might get a codex a month for a minute, which I think got everyone's hopes up, and now that is dashed.
The list looks heavily based around what models are coming as opposed to what new rules are coming. For example there's no mention of Octarius II or any other expansions, which are almost certainly happening.
I wouldn't rule out any change to the current pace of releases. However the chances are anyone not explicitly mentioned (i.e. Imp. Knights, Tyranids) will probably just have a minimal release alongside their codex in between the other larger projects.
It does seem odd that Tyranids would be featured in the current campaign lore but then pushed back way into next year or further. Then again GW had Malarion and Lumineth in the 1.0 and 2.0 Lore for AoS and only one of those forces appeared right at the end of 2.0. Meanwhile Ossiarchs were the "army that was never there until it always was upon release" kinda deal which was a total surprise
We welcome one for me as I love them ,but still very much a surprise release.
This was a roadmap? Three codexes we already knew about, including one that is technically already available [Local store has 2 boxes of Beast Snaggers] and then some really gakky cover art for two "Mystery" codexes?
We now have rough dates for all 3 of those codex and dates for 2 mystery codex, which are clearly just mysteries until the next big reveal event and designed to - well - generate pages of interest and chatter in social communities so - I'd say its working just as intended.
As an aside we can fairly safely say the "missing" month is also most likely when the AoS Battletomes will be dropping so we get a nice chunk of info. Sure its not a complete road map with every model and item, but its a rough guide at least.
Hmmm. So basically updating all of the remaining units for the Undivided Legions, bar a few characters. Especially excited to hear rumors about an actual kit for Chosen. And I think I might have a theory on how they'll make them relevant.
All of that other stuff, Traitor Guardsmen, human characters, mutated and possessed humans. That can only be one thing: R&H/The Lost and The Damned/<INSERT COPYRIGHTABLE NAME HERE>. Sounds good. Except for the wait.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Hmmm. So basically updating all of the remaining units for the Undivided Legions, bar a few characters. Especially excited to hear rumors about an actual kit for Chosen. And I think I might have a theory on how they'll make them relevant.
All of that other stuff, Traitor Guardsmen, human characters, mutated and possessed humans. That can only be one thing: R&H/The Lost and The Damned/<INSERT COPYRIGHTABLE NAME HERE>. Sounds good. Except for the wait.
Considering how spotty GW has been with providing Chaos players a full Chaos Cultist kit, it's nice to see them trying to flesh out the range. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chaos Cultists rumored here are a 'test' to see if they can hold their own and be expanded into a full Renegade list, separate from the Chaos Marine dex.
So we have a shot at 5 years of reroll failed morale as our sole free layer of rules and might get to enjoy 2 years of being stuck at 1 wound while Loyalists run around with 2.
What a massive disappointment post Marines 2.0 has been.
The guy going by the name "Chapter Master Valrak" is mostly active on the Bolter & Chainsword forum and seems to be in the know for BT.
Valrak was in the past a notoriously bad source of rumors. He has been posting rumors since Guilliman was released of various traitor/loyalist primarchs being released in plastic - especially Dorn. None have come to fruition in... ~4 years? Its to the point that its actually become a meme in certain corners of the online 40k community. Not sure if the deleted rumor posts that are being discussed here came from Valrak, if so then it would seem that he has some legitimate rumor hookups now.
Hoping those rumors are true though, they sound pretty good all in all.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Especially excited to hear rumors about an actual kit for Chosen.
Be careful what you wish for.
"One model in every 5 may have a Meltagun. One model in every 5 may have a Plasma Gun. One model in every 5..."
Eh, one would hope that a new kit wouldn't have options on the sprue so limited to warrant that kind of rules disaster. But, it's gw and it's CSM, so it could happen. At least they won't be given the Legends or Trueborn treatment.
yukishiro1 wrote: Yeah, but they can't charge you money for that. Come on, priorities here.
There isn't a simple fix. If you gave Rubrics W2 and let them keep everything else you'd see 20 mans walking all over some people and not others. Just giving W2 doesn't fix CSM even if people want to pretend it would be.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But it doesn't have to solve all of CSMs problems. It just has to make them worth playing until they get their proper 'Dex.
I've always said that GW should have used Chapter Approved like they did in 2017 to provide tide-you-over rules for factions further away on the release schedule.
However CSM certainly aren't the only faction stuck behind the curve, and there's no reason for GW to single them out for special treatment without anyone else getting updated pre-codex
H.B.M.C. wrote: But it doesn't have to solve all of CSMs problems. It just has to make them worth playing until they get their proper 'Dex.
I've always said that GW should have used Chapter Approved like they did in 2017 to provide tide-you-over rules for factions further away on the release schedule.
However CSM certainly aren't the only faction stuck behind the curve, and there's no reason for GW to single them out for special treatment without anyone else getting updated pre-codex
most armies with an 8th edition codex have tide you over rules, CSMs are just in a weird place because suddenly they're the only marines with less then 2 wounds
In fairness, it's not like 2w chaos marines will suddenly make the army viable. If anything, it just means you're spending more points on units that would suck even with 2w.
CSM aren't a durable army, they haven't been for a while. 2w loyalist marines aren't exactly tearing up the meta, what makes loyalist armies much better than CSM is their options and stackable benefits. Most of the infantry loyalist armies are leaning on with marines are carrying storm shields. Raptors will still be a poor man's van vets for example.
I think without better buffs and legion traits I think we might just be better off taking more cheap and fragile units anyway
Eldarain wrote: So we have a shot at 5 years of reroll failed morale as our sole free layer of rules and might get to enjoy 2 years of being stuck at 1 wound while Loyalists run around with 2.
What a massive disappointment post Marines 2.0 has been.
Now now, you’re also forgetting that we got an additional hit on every roll of 6 as long as it’s in melee, the target is imperial, and there’s no negative penalties.
Eldarain wrote: So we have a shot at 5 years of reroll failed morale as our sole free layer of rules and might get to enjoy 2 years of being stuck at 1 wound while Loyalists run around with 2.
What a massive disappointment post Marines 2.0 has been.
Now now, you’re also forgetting that we got an additional hit on every roll of 6 as long as it’s in melee, the target is imperial, and there’s no negative penalties.
Sounds like the army has a lot going for it even without having 2 wounds!
Sounds like the army has a lot going for it even without having 2 wounds!
i think thats the consensus these days. CSM have, like, one competitive build and the rest is just meh. they are sorely in need of far more than just a 2nd wound, but given the relatively high standards of the new codexes in improving internal balance, i am cautiously optimistic.
It's not even just balance issue. It is just ridiculous that some marines have two wounds and some have one. Like they're the basically the same thing, why would they have different stats? When they first said that the wounds would be fixed in the codes, I assumed it meant the codex was imminent, but leaving such a disparity in the game for this long is just terrible. There was even Chapter Approved where they could have sorted it if they felt it was too complicated for a FAQ.
In 8th we also had Bolter drill as a Beta rule to try out before becoming official. Wasn't that even released in a WD? I could be mistaking. But there's a lot of ways they could have solved that, especially when you realize they wrote a proper FAQ with their own rules for Space Wolves, whose Codex came out about two months later.
Eldarain wrote: So we have a shot at 5 years of reroll failed morale as our sole free layer of rules and might get to enjoy 2 years of being stuck at 1 wound while Loyalists run around with 2.
What a massive disappointment post Marines 2.0 has been.
Now now, you’re also forgetting that we got an additional hit on every roll of 6 as long as it’s in melee, the target is imperial, and there’s no negative penalties.
that's being replaced in the next codex with a straight second attack BTW. assuming 1k sons and death guard are anything to go by.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But it doesn't have to solve all of CSMs problems. It just has to make them worth playing until they get their proper 'Dex.
I've always said that GW should have used Chapter Approved like they did in 2017 to provide tide-you-over rules for factions further away on the release schedule.
However CSM certainly aren't the only faction stuck behind the curve, and there's no reason for GW to single them out for special treatment without anyone else getting updated pre-codex
most armies with an 8th edition codex have tide you over rules, CSMs are just in a weird place because suddenly they're the only marines with less then 2 wounds
CSM are also the only marines with a dreadnought without the -1 to all damage rule, the only Legions with BS/WS4 daemon engines (except the ones made out of resin), dreadnoughts that DO have the -1 to all damage rule but no faction traits (because gw forgot to change <DREADNOUGHT> to <HELLBRUTE> when they copy pasted the Chaos rules from loyalists in the Compendium), faction traits that don't work on VEHICLES besides HELLBRUTES, etc, etc. "In a weird place" is exactly the right way to put it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But it doesn't have to solve all of CSMs problems. It just has to make them worth playing until they get their proper 'Dex.
I've always said that GW should have used Chapter Approved like they did in 2017 to provide tide-you-over rules for factions further away on the release schedule.
However CSM certainly aren't the only faction stuck behind the curve, and there's no reason for GW to single them out for special treatment without anyone else getting updated pre-codex
most armies with an 8th edition codex have tide you over rules, CSMs are just in a weird place because suddenly they're the only marines with less then 2 wounds
CSM are also the only marines with a dreadnought without the -1 to all damage rule, the only Legions with BS/WS4 daemon engines (except the ones made out of resin), dreadnoughts that DO have the -1 to all damage rule but no faction traits (because gw forgot to change <DREADNOUGHT> to <HELLBRUTE> when they copy pasted the Chaos rules from loyalists in the Compendium), faction traits that don't work on VEHICLES besides HELLBRUTES, etc, etc. "In a weird place" is exactly the right way to put it.
a lot of this can be house ruled around if you're not in a RAW enviroment, but yeah it sucks. I'm hoping that for CSMs the wait is worth it and the next codex is a "knock your socks off amazing" codex. and not a situation like space wolves 8th edition where they make you wait a year after everyone else has their codex only to give you no new models (you STILL can't buy they SW leuitenant by himself) and a copy pasta codex.
Eldarain wrote: So we have a shot at 5 years of reroll failed morale as our sole free layer of rules and might get to enjoy 2 years of being stuck at 1 wound while Loyalists run around with 2.
What a massive disappointment post Marines 2.0 has been.
Now now, you’re also forgetting that we got an additional hit on every roll of 6 as long as it’s in melee, the target is imperial, and there’s no negative penalties.
that's being replaced in the next codex with a straight second attack BTW. assuming 1k sons and death guard are anything to go by.
At this point, they might not be. 'Next year, sometime' puts them in the targeting sights of the sudden paradigm shift of codex design that inevitably happens over the course of a 40k edition.
Well see I remember back when Dark Angels had worse smoke and storm shields, etc, etc to regular marines for a long time. They could have simply FAQed them to the current standard, instead we were told to politely ask to use the current rules for the wargear but they didn't need to allow us, but they would unless they were a cruel git, basically.
GW is nothing if not consistent at being head up bum in some regard. The fact that they haven't just hand waved some extra points and a second wound to chaos marines is pretty dumb. The fact they leave some factions to languish seemingly for a long time sucking eggs is equally stupid.
I will say as well with the state of things for me, I'm just basically riding this edition out and finishing my collections. I don't think I'll get any of the new books and just wait for the next edition as by the time I'll get good use out of my armies it'll probably be time for the next edition anyways and most of these books are so heavily changed after dropping it'd feel like buying a broken wrong book right out the gate.
I appreciate the drive for balance but I don't appreciate them not having it done correct on printing and feeling like I bought a piece of trash I can't rely on for a not insignificant price. It used to be they said we were buying quality but with how much they get altered and made wrong it just doesn't feel like quality these days.
Next edition may have better attention to this, that is my hope anyways.
As for those that suck and may suck for awhile, I am really sorry for your armies and I hope GW make an effort to at least give a bandaid to some of these factions if they'll be sitting out so long.
The baked in extra attack TS and DG got was because they got rid of hateful assault (shock assault). DTTFE was just removed with no replacement.
Thing is with CSM, is you can write a list of the things they're missing like no -1 to damage on dreads etc, but there's also a lot of stuff they still have that has been taken away like DTTFE, full rerolls on stuff like leviathan dreads and Daemon engines and crazy strong strategems like endless cacophony. The sort of stuff that's been removed in new codexes.
I'm not saying that puts them anywhere near on par with 9th ed codexes, but it does demonstrate how wonky CSM's rules are right now. They really need a whole new codex, patch changes like the 2w buff isn't gonna fix them - could even break them in fact.
There are still some incredibly strong skew builds that CSM can put out that are tempered by their other rules, mainly to do with the fact they have zero durability.
Ignoring stats and wounds, one of the biggest things this edition pushes is the crusade system and 1/3 of the armies don't have their own flavour or sections for it yet.
Likewise in the "most competitive edition of the game ever" when secondaries reign all important, 1/3 of the game lack their own flavourful objectives.
Whilst they have strats and army rules from 8th, in many ways this is a lot like the issues with playing index vs codex armies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But it doesn't have to solve all of CSMs problems. It just has to make them worth playing until they get their proper 'Dex.
I've always said that GW should have used Chapter Approved like they did in 2017 to provide tide-you-over rules for factions further away on the release schedule.
However CSM certainly aren't the only faction stuck behind the curve, and there's no reason for GW to single them out for special treatment without anyone else getting updated pre-codex
most armies with an 8th edition codex have tide you over rules, CSMs are just in a weird place because suddenly they're the only marines with less then 2 wounds
CSM are also the only marines with a dreadnought without the -1 to all damage rule, the only Legions with BS/WS4 daemon engines (except the ones made out of resin), dreadnoughts that DO have the -1 to all damage rule but no faction traits (because gw forgot to change <DREADNOUGHT> to <HELLBRUTE> when they copy pasted the Chaos rules from loyalists in the Compendium), faction traits that don't work on VEHICLES besides HELLBRUTES, etc, etc. "In a weird place" is exactly the right way to put it.
a lot of this can be house ruled around if you're not in a RAW enviroment, but yeah it sucks. I'm hoping that for CSMs the wait is worth it and the next codex is a "knock your socks off amazing" codex. and not a situation like space wolves 8th edition where they make you wait a year after everyone else has their codex only to give you no new models (you STILL can't buy they SW leuitenant by himself) and a copy pasta codex.
Well, hope springs eternal. But we are getting new Chosen, and it looks like the Lost and The Damned are coming back. Hey, you know what CSM codex the Lost and The Damned list worked with? Maybe they're finally getting their inspiration from the Right Place.
Saw this list on Facebook and thought it was bogus but now Ive seen who its from, might be legit. Squats/dwarfs in space have been hinted at here and there and considering the rumour list doesn't mention subsequent Killteam info after the SoBv Tau they could reappear as a Killteam. The Eldar are definitely coming as a recent Rumour Engine was the bloody arm of the Avatar Of Khaine.
Surprised at no Nids because of their involvement with Octarius and having 2 rumour engines bu maybe thats a killteam/supplement release rather than a codex update. I'm sure we will find out pretty soon if these are true or not.
silverstu wrote: Saw this list on Facebook and thought it was bogus but now Ive seen who its from, might be legit. Squats/dwarfs in space have been hinted at here and there and considering the rumour list doesn't mention subsequent Killteam info after the SoBv Tau they could reappear as a Killteam. The Eldar are definitely coming as a recent Rumour Engine was the bloody arm of the Avatar Of Khaine.
Surprised at no Nids because of their involvement with Octarius and having 2 rumour engines bu maybe thats a killteam/supplement release rather than a codex update. I'm sure we will find out pretty soon if these are true or not.
The last few Tyranid "rumour" photos turned out to be bits of tyranids dead on bases or other xenos things.
Tyranids surprises me indeed because of Octarius involvement and because GW really don't have to do much to keep Tyranid players happy and move them fully off finecast.
Then again its almost like someone at GW doesn't want them to "abandon" finecast. Slaanesh got 2 massive updates to models as well as a few individual releases over the last 2 years and yet after all that and after removing some old and updating almost everything that wasn't modern plastic - the Viceleader, ergo leader on foot, is still finecast. Everything else that pretty much was a deamonette or original seeker based kit got an upgrade except the Viceleader. Then again its also interesting that a lot of AoS armies have had a centrepiece mounted model and Slaanesh hasn't got one of those either (unless Glutos counts but he's really not your typical mounted leader); and indeed lost the "boob worm" mounted leader. So perhaps, who knows, there's a little more for Slaanesh hanging in waiting.
Squats/Demiurge/Dwarves in Space making a return isn't impossible to consider. It would give them a brand new army which would be neat, esp as AoS has shown that a bigger range of models and armies CAN be supported and can avoid the Marine effect and do really well for itself. I still think Tau Auxiliaries/allies/xenos forces should be a thing - built around a Kroot core with loads of various races that lets GW flex its creative freedom whilst also fitting into the lore of aliens on the fringe who have survived the Imperium and are now banding/being brought into the fold of the Tau forces. And by separating it it means that the mecha-core of Tau remains what it is - which is good as its clearly popular
Eldar getting a semibig update is almost a given unless they were going to squat them. It's nearly always been more a question of when not if - with it being a very long when.
Demiurg being a modern imaging of the Squats would both give GW more freedom to play up the Space Dwarf theme, whilst giving Tau an ally and adding another Xenos army to balance out the mount of Imperial ones. But I fully expect they'll be an Imperial army with a Copyrightius Markium name. The "SQUATS ARE -BACK-!" memes from the Community and community will do all the marketing they could ever need, plus all the influencers who can go "Haha im playing/painting SQUATs thats something i bet you never thought i would say XDDD" Being Imperials also means they can sell them to Marine players as allies.
People are dismissing the rumours based on Squats being mentioned, but you'd probably get a similar reaction six years ago if you said Guilliman would be getting a 40k model, Space Marines would get an entire range refresh as 'Primaris' and Genestealer Cults are returning as a standalone faction.
Considering Kroot haven't had a new model in literally twenty years and GW seem to be actively steering away from Auxiliaries in terms of models (last were the metal Vespid I think?) I do wonder if GW intend to spin them off into their own standalone codex like the Harlequins.
I'd hope if GW did spin Tau away, that they'd do it better than Harlies. To me armies like Harlies and Inquisition were hobbled by basically being fairly small model ranges that were designed to tack-onto another army.
I think you have to go all in with a new army such as they've done with Genestealer Cults (and even that took two releases to fully shed the shackles of being bound to Imperial Guard).
Dudeface wrote: Well, today's article and the codex cover for black templars seems to confirm phobos neophytes with bolt carbines and new sword brethren
Yes, and if that part of the leak is true, then the rest being true is far more likely. Chosen and Lost and The Damned. Gimme gimme gimme.
Dudeface wrote: Well, today's article and the codex cover for black templars seems to confirm phobos neophytes with bolt carbines and new sword brethren
Yes, and if that part of the leak is true, then the rest being true is far more likely. Chosen and Lost and The Damned. Gimme gimme gimme.
I'm not sure how I feel about all the Human stuff for Chaos to tell you the truth. Feels much less CSMy, but if that's the direction they'd like to go it would really diffrent them from other armies.
It also seems super odd, because GW has really pushed away from using the non- Chaos Marine style troops in DG and 1ksons (at least tried with DG).
Either way, it sure is a bit of an interesting development.
Dudeface wrote: Well, today's article and the codex cover for black templars seems to confirm phobos neophytes with bolt carbines and new sword brethren
Yes, and if that part of the leak is true, then the rest being true is far more likely. Chosen and Lost and The Damned. Gimme gimme gimme.
I'm not sure how I feel about all the Human stuff for Chaos to tell you the truth. Feels much less CSMy, but if that's the direction they'd like to go it would really diffrent them from other armies.
It also seems super odd, because GW has really pushed away from using the non- Chaos Marine style troops in DG and 1ksons (at least tried with DG).
Either way, it sure is a bit of an interesting development.
It's a return to the Lost and The Damned list from the Eye of Terror campaign book. Optional, and hopefully you can run them WITHOUT Astartes. Closest I'll probably come to my R&H this edition. I expect Traitor Guardsmen to be our equivalent to Poxwalkers and Tzaangors: better than Cultists, who are just cheap chaff, but not Astartes.
But the important part is its a throwback to editions BEFORE the godawful 4th edition CSM codex. Just like how Death Guard and Thousand Sons can buff their Champions with special abilities and relics. That's from 3.5 and earlier. I think they're finally getting inspiration from the Right Place, and not the horrible 4th edition CSM codex and what came after.
I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd like to see traitor guard as a codex supplement to codex Astra militarum
Honestly that would have been my choice as well, could even include a marine hq and elites ala vraks in the supplement.
Instead it sounds like the chaos forces depicted in the novels, mortal fodder with bitter veterans behind. Will be a chunky book though if true.
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Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Gsc has an utterly mental cash to point issue to contend with too.
Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Me too. But that doesn't look like what we'll be getting. So I really hope we get rules that allow us to go pure Lost and The Damned in the CSM codex if these leaks are true. I'll definitely miss my Russes and Valkyries though.
Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Me too. But that doesn't look like what we'll be getting. So I really hope we get rules that allow us to go pure Lost and The Damned in the CSM codex if these leaks are true. I'll definitely miss my Russes and Valkyries though.
My R&H have been used exclusively as Astra Militarum since 8th. If the new CSM book has rules for traitor Guard squads but no support for their vehicles (or Ogryns), I can't see that changing.
My pie-in-the-sky wish is that the CSM codex allows infantry squads to tag along as part of a ramshackle LatD list, while the Astra Militarum codex provides a regimental option explicitly for Chaos Guard so as to represent more organized forces.
Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Me too. But that doesn't look like what we'll be getting. So I really hope we get rules that allow us to go pure Lost and The Damned in the CSM codex if these leaks are true. I'll definitely miss my Russes and Valkyries though.
My R&H have been used exclusively as Astra Militarum since 8th. If the new CSM book has rules for traitor Guard squads but no support for their vehicles (or Ogryns), I can't see that changing.
My pie-in-the-sky wish is that the CSM codex allows infantry squads to tag along as part of a ramshackle LatD list, while the Astra Militarum codex provides a regimental option explicitly for Chaos Guard so as to represent more organized forces.
Best I could see happening is they get Traitor Leman Russ and Traitor Chimeras in the same vein as Brood Brothers in Codex: Genestealer Cults, in addition to the option of taking a <Militarum Traitoris> Imperial Guard Detachment.
Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Me too. But that doesn't look like what we'll be getting. So I really hope we get rules that allow us to go pure Lost and The Damned in the CSM codex if these leaks are true. I'll definitely miss my Russes and Valkyries though.
My R&H have been used exclusively as Astra Militarum since 8th. If the new CSM book has rules for traitor Guard squads but no support for their vehicles (or Ogryns), I can't see that changing.
My pie-in-the-sky wish is that the CSM codex allows infantry squads to tag along as part of a ramshackle LatD list, while the Astra Militarum codex provides a regimental option explicitly for Chaos Guard so as to represent more organized forces.
Best I could see happening is they get Traitor Leman Russ and Traitor Chimeras in the same vein as Brood Brothers in Codex: Genestealer Cults, in addition to the option of taking a <Militarum Traitoris> Imperial Guard Detachment.
That could work. It would be a way to get some actual Guard vehicles in there.
@Catbarf: BSF had mutant Ogryns. Maybe those will be in there as well.
I too would prefer a dedicated CSM codex (cultists can stay if they have the same limits that they do in the TS book), a dedicated Renegades & Heretics/Traitor Guard type codex (i.e. no marines), and a combined Lost and the Damned type codex ala the old Eye of Terror army list (combination of both of the above).
chaos0xomega wrote: I too would prefer a dedicated CSM codex (cultists can stay if they have the same limits that they do in the TS book), a dedicated Renegades & Heretics/Traitor Guard type codex (i.e. no marines), and a combined Lost and the Damned type codex ala the old Eye of Terror army list (combination of both of the above).
You could fold lost and the damned as with marine support / leaders into the R&H dex. Don't forget that the template of IA13 actually would've allowed that, just as much as it had allowed to field dark mechanicus forces and upgraded the Demagogue into a Heretek...
Edit: As for the rumours, I like the BSF models, but i fear that it will turn out like GSC in many ways-
Also i hope that the list will be flexible enough to build daemonic and non daemonic cults aswell as trained armies.
BSF gave us:
Traitor commisar Mutated ogryn Psyker
Traitor guardsmen Cultists with interesting weapons options (Never forget the stubcarbine, GL and Stubber) Negavolt cultists.
What by comparison is missing bur rumored to show up:
Mutants (we got that seemingly covered in the rumor) HQ with bodyguard. (covered also shame that FW stopped producing their R&H command) Banner bearer (banners were always kinda big thing for R&H, i do hope the banner bearer will have a good looking one, since we can't expect multiple options nowadays for looks....)
Stuff that would need to show up: Heavy weapons (could be handled with upgrade sprue) Elite infantry (Stuff like disciples and Veterans aswell as marauders, not covered, needs to happen, the fanatically inclined ranks were always key) Enforcer / commisar equivalent, especially if the Traitor commissar becomes an HQ Priest of some type ( were actually a thing then got lost somewhere in transition, with DA and faith seemingly playing an important part a small DA wannabee might be an actully interesting model. Chaos spawn. no seriously just needs a new modell. Ogryns , we got only a bodyguard version, an actual melee version in a dual kit for oversized mutants would be very welcome.
chaos0xomega wrote: I too would prefer a dedicated CSM codex (cultists can stay if they have the same limits that they do in the TS book), a dedicated Renegades & Heretics/Traitor Guard type codex (i.e. no marines), and a combined Lost and the Damned type codex ala the old Eye of Terror army list (combination of both of the above).
You could fold lost and the damned as with marine support / leaders into the R&H dex. Don't forget that the template of IA13 actually would've allowed that, just as much as it had allowed to field dark mechanicus forces and upgraded the Demagogue into a Heretek...
You could, but I wouldn't see that as a good thing. Separating it into three ensures a separation of flavor. I want a true chaos space marines army list where the core of the army is built around chaos space marines and you aren't forced to include non-CSM to build the right mix of unit and weapon types. I want a true traitor guard army list where the core of the army is built around guardsmen and you aren't forced to include non-traitor guard to build the right mix of unit and weapon types. I then went the Lost and the Damned as a hybrid of these two army lists with their own unique units, etc. to include things like daemons and less commonly encountered chaos forces.
In my mind, hybridizing traitor guard and LatD will just dilute the flavor of both armies, moreso to the detriment of the traitor guard side of the house, and I don't want that.
And dark mechanicus should likewise be a separtate standalone codex IMO.
Arbitrator wrote: Demiurg being a modern imaging of the Squats would both give GW more freedom to play up the Space Dwarf theme, whilst giving Tau an ally and adding another Xenos army to balance out the mount of Imperial ones. But I fully expect they'll be an Imperial army with a Copyrightius Markium name. The "SQUATS ARE -BACK-!" memes from the Community and community will do all the marketing they could ever need, plus all the influencers who can go "Haha im playing/painting SQUATs thats something i bet you never thought i would say XDDD" Being Imperials also means they can sell them to Marine players as allies.
People are dismissing the rumours based on Squats being mentioned, but you'd probably get a similar reaction six years ago if you said Guilliman would be getting a 40k model, Space Marines would get an entire range refresh as 'Primaris' and Genestealer Cults are returning as a standalone faction.
They could certainly bring squats back as an independent faction - the short text from PA referencing them made them seem like not imperium aligned after their disappearance. As you say the hype of "The Return of the Squats" would be perfect marketing so I see them back as Squats [renamed officially ] rather than demiurg. Could bring them back as a Killteam first as a taster/tester the way Krieg where brought out.
GSC where also dismissed as never coming back -they looked out of place/ridiculous with their limos and I remember Phil Kelly I think. saying ages before he didn't see them as a tabletop force more as an infiltrating one. Then that changed so they could do the same for squats, reworked with an intiial release and a follow up if they sell. AoS has shown they can do very interesting things with the dwarf type and their dwarf sculpts are fantastic now, less comical than before - the Gotrek model is wonderful. Plus todays rumour engine looks to have dwarf proportions on the arm/hand and is 40k in nature, thats 3 rumour engines looking dwarf/squat like which to me is heavily suggestive of at least a Killteam.
On eldar getting a big update - they have a larger section that needs updated, and have done for ages - its one of the reasons I lost interest as the plastic infantry models where so limited compared to my other army, Nids. A ranger set for Killteam along with the rumoured sets would be fantastic [just not for my wallet]. New Nids would be great but I wouldn't begrudge the Eldar getting release ahead of them as the Nid range is very solid - maybe a model or two with Octarius vol 2.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Until we get a new codex that wraps it all together.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Until we get a new codex that wraps it all together.
Hopefully sometime soonish.
Not too soon or the campaign book they want you to buy is redundant 2 months later, unless they only move 50% into the codex or leave out the campaign rules from the codex ofc.
Plus they'll all be invalidated by a new Codex that combines all three.
And you wonder why so many of us have abandoned buying GW's printed material...
But hoo boy! That Neurothrope rule. -1Ld? I think that's what every army calls out for these days. Slight debuffs to enemy leadership are downright game breaking. Watch out AdMech and Dark Eldar - here come the Neuropthropes!!!
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
They might roll the nid PA rules into this book like they did with CSM & the Charadon book
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
They might roll the nid PA rules into this book like they did with CSM & the Charadon book
Fair point, if they do then nids to the back of the bus and it yet again points toward the long rumour leak being more accurate potentially.
You're all too naive. Clearly this points to a new Nids codex dropping in December (as we already thought) while 1 week later/earlier the Octarius book will drop ALSO containing new Nid rules. Maybe an army of renown or a supplement too?
This is the new trend - day 1 DLC for every new codex. Since GW can't milk every faction for supplement books like Loyalist Marines, they've found another way to make everyone buy two new books.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
They might roll the nid PA rules into this book like they did with CSM & the Charadon book
Fair point, if they do then nids to the back of the bus and it yet again points toward the long rumour leak being more accurate potentially.
Yeah its looking that way so far.. be interesting to see where the Nid rumour engine pics fit in to this- maybe an accompanying model or two? I also wonder what they are going to put in Octarius vol2 in the future? I had expected Nids in that one.. Maybe its Octarius. Vol2 -the Squats revenge...
Fergie0044 wrote: You're all too naive. Clearly this points to a new Nids codex dropping in December (as we already thought) while 1 week later/earlier the Octarius book will drop ALSO containing new Nid rules. Maybe an army of renown or a supplement too?
This is the new trend - day 1 DLC for every new codex. Since GW can't milk every faction for supplement books like Loyalist Marines, they've found another way to make everyone buy two new books.
Word on the street is GSC are the xenos book this year, which Nids getting a "get-you-by" set of rules would reinforce. I'm open to suggestions how the preview indicated anything locked to specific hive fleets (supplement) or limited army builds (army of renown) though.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Yea q is thus is this more like dark eldar got or more like pa(maybe including pa rules). Ie main book still far away(leading credence to gsc being december xenos)
Fergie0044 wrote: You're all too naive. Clearly this points to a new Nids codex dropping in December (as we already thought) while 1 week later/earlier the Octarius book will drop ALSO containing new Nid rules. Maybe an army of renown or a supplement too?
This is the new trend - day 1 DLC for every new codex. Since GW can't milk every faction for supplement books like Loyalist Marines, they've found another way to make everyone buy two new books.
Get you by warmer rules now and proper book later isn't making gw any less money than main book and day 1 dlc. Either way you sell 2 books
.
Actually this would open third book. Get you by book, main codex, day 1 dlc.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But hoo boy! That Neurothrope rule. -1Ld? I think that's what every army calls out for these days. Slight debuffs to enemy leadership are downright game breaking. Watch out AdMech and Dark Eldar - here come the Neuropthropes!!!
For what it's worth, the Adaptive Physiology selections that GW previewed prior to Blood of Baal were also the bad ones, but we got Enhanced Resistance, Dermic Symbiosis, and Dynamic Camouflage as diamonds in the rough.
And you think the ability to take two of the same Adaptive Physiology is going to survive to the Codex proper?
I guess my point is that they continue to persist with these milquetoast leadership debuff rules that no one actually takes. They really do play a different game to there rest of us.
The rumours strongly pointing to GSC in December make me think this is another 'get you buy' book rather than Day 1 DLC. Not that one is an improvement over the other of course.
They could certainly bring squats back as an independent faction - the short text from PA referencing them made them seem like not imperium aligned after their disappearance. As you say the hype of "The Return of the Squats" would be perfect marketing so I see them back as Squats [renamed officially ] rather than demiurg. Could bring them back as a Killteam first as a taster/tester the way Krieg where brought out. GSC where also dismissed as never coming back -they looked out of place/ridiculous with their limos and I remember Phil Kelly I think. saying ages before he didn't see them as a tabletop force more as an infiltrating one. Then that changed so they could do the same for squats, reworked with an intiial release and a follow up if they sell. AoS has shown they can do very interesting things with the dwarf type and their dwarf sculpts are fantastic now, less comical than before - the Gotrek model is wonderful. Plus todays rumour engine looks to have dwarf proportions on the arm/hand and is 40k in nature, thats 3 rumour engines looking dwarf/squat like which to me is heavily suggestive of at least a Killteam.
A few years ago I'd have agreed, but it now feels like GW want to slot each of the factions into the Imperium/Chaos/Xenos category, even if the latter can't align. Their website and webstore designs certainly err on having three compact categories, whereas before it was a lot more 'yeah these are just armies and some of them happen to be on the same team'.
My guess is that Squats will have the <Imperial> keyword, but with a lore stipulation that they're still pretty independent and some groups still get into slugging matches with local Imperial systems if relations get too strained, probably with a sub-faction who're more independent/aggressive.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Plus they'll all be invalidated by a new Codex that combines all three.
And you wonder why so many of us have abandoned buying GW's printed material...
But hoo boy! That Neurothrope rule. -1Ld? I think that's what every army calls out for these days. Slight debuffs to enemy leadership are downright game breaking. Watch out AdMech and Dark Eldar - here come the Neuropthropes!!!
The combination of attrition and leadership mods is unseen so far in 9th and is potentially good. The -1 tipping a unit closer to auto-fail morale and then if you take them under half you're losing half that remaining unit.
Daedalus81 wrote: The combination of attrition and leadership mods is unseen so far in 9th and is potentially good. The -1 tipping a unit closer to auto-fail morale and then if you take them under half you're losing half that remaining unit.
So a lot of your lists take the traits/abilities that cause -1Ld to the enemy, do they?
Daedalus81 wrote: The combination of attrition and leadership mods is unseen so far in 9th and is potentially good. The -1 tipping a unit closer to auto-fail morale and then if you take them under half you're losing half that remaining unit.
So a lot of your lists take the traits/abilities that cause -1Ld to the enemy, do they?
I don't have access to one that does -1LD and +1 attrition. If I did I would try to work it in. The only -1LD available to me also has -1A, but it is Cult locked so unless I want to build around that Cult I have no choice. I otherwise fully intend to exploit the -1LD from spawn when possible.
Thirding/Fourthing the call for reposting - aside from not wanting to give 4chan my webtraffic I'm also workblocked from seeing it.
Arbitrator wrote: The rumours strongly pointing to GSC in December make me think this is another 'get you buy' book rather than Day 1 DLC. Not that one is an improvement over the other of course.
They could certainly bring squats back as an independent faction - the short text from PA referencing them made them seem like not imperium aligned after their disappearance. As you say the hype of "The Return of the Squats" would be perfect marketing so I see them back as Squats [renamed officially ] rather than demiurg. Could bring them back as a Killteam first as a taster/tester the way Krieg where brought out.
GSC where also dismissed as never coming back -they looked out of place/ridiculous with their limos and I remember Phil Kelly I think. saying ages before he didn't see them as a tabletop force more as an infiltrating one. Then that changed so they could do the same for squats, reworked with an intiial release and a follow up if they sell. AoS has shown they can do very interesting things with the dwarf type and their dwarf sculpts are fantastic now, less comical than before - the Gotrek model is wonderful. Plus todays rumour engine looks to have dwarf proportions on the arm/hand and is 40k in nature, thats 3 rumour engines looking dwarf/squat like which to me is heavily suggestive of at least a Killteam.
A few years ago I'd have agreed, but it now feels like GW want to slot each of the factions into the Imperium/Chaos/Xenos category, even if the latter can't align. Their website and webstore designs certainly err on having three compact categories, whereas before it was a lot more 'yeah these are just armies and some of them happen to be on the same team'.
My guess is that Squats will have the <Imperial> keyword, but with a lore stipulation that they're still pretty independent and some groups still get into slugging matches with local Imperial systems if relations get too strained, probably with a sub-faction who're more independent/aggressive.
It would be interesting if they made them <Xenos> but with a brood brothers type rule that lets them work with Imperium & Tau. Would be an interesting way of backdooring Gue'la auxiliaries into Tau armies and helping level out the soup possibilities of the xenos factions relative to Imperium/Chaos.
While I could choose to be upset about the Nids being a "stop-gap", I will instead use it to try and see the future of what they want Nids to do. Personally, I love the idea of using a "Synaptic Map" to be able to both spread out AND gain character buffs wherever and whenever you need them. That's pretty cool and fluffy!
Like, consider the Neurothrope one. If it's able to give that ability to ANY unit in synapse range, then the Neurothrope can sit far in the back, and give that buff to the Broodlord, who is giving his buff to some Genestealers. So you can apply the Neurothrope's ability right into your opponent's lines, even without it actually being there.
It makes these abilities less "unit within 6 inches of this guy" and "unit within 6 inches of ANY of your guys", which - if there's more of these (like if this is a test for what they want their codex to do) is really cool
When was this posted? Because it's highly suspect that it comes after we got those extremely detailed bits from B&C...and 4chan has had a habit of people doing that kind of stuff.
Kanluwen wrote: Could always just, y'know, hit the highlights.
When was this posted? Because it's highly suspect that it comes after we got those extremely detailed bits from B&C...and 4chan has had a habit of people doing that kind of stuff.
It is after but they talk about stock levels for some items and a couple of bits do contradict the other rumours slightly. I've got free time in an hour to go through and collate it.
That was painful, nothing that wild for 40K. Almost makes me wonder how much of it is to just launder a Titanicus is squated troll rumour...but anyway
Next codices are IG and Tyranids (which seems a fairly obvious guess)
Adeptus Titanicus is winding down in 2022 with no new releases after that. AI as well.
Tau get the new years day reveal slot and are in Jan (as the other rumours said)
Eldar have been delayed due to some modelling issues, but 2-3 aspects with the codex and others with Kill Team.
New Harlquin unit via Kill Team (was there a rumour of them being reincorporated into the Craftworld box? That's false apparently)
CSM and Daemons by Summer 2022
Heresy box in Nov
Space Hulk is back next year with a 'twist' on the genestealer side.
AoS Chaos Dwarfs 2022
LOTR license is til 2026
'Air' range paints to move to dropper bottles next year.
That sounds like a lot of guesswork and made up gak, also at odds with the B&C rumors which come from someone with a proven track record (next codexes are Custodes and Genestealer Cults).
Heresy box is supposedly October timeframe, as September is Ork release and November is BT (already confirmed by WarCom).
Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges and has better ROI factor than 40k/AoS owing to the entire player base using the same set of minis. Theres still at least 2-3 rumored titan classes to release, and GW hasn't even started to release traitor/corrupted titans yet which we already know are coming. Theres at least enough content in the pipeline to keep GW going on AT for another 2-3 years at the rate they have been releasing product for the game. AI on the other hand might be believable, there have been rumors for a while that it hasn't sold well and that the next wave of content will be the last (though the sources for those rumors are highly suspect dakkites with a well-establsihed dislike for the game and apparent chips on their shoulder over it).
Tastyfish wrote: That was painful, nothing that wild for 40K. Almost makes me wonder how much of it is to just launder a Titanicus is squated troll rumour...but anyway
Next codices are IG and Tyranids (which seems a fairly obvious guess)
Adeptus Titanicus is winding down in 2022 with no new releases after that. AI as well.
Tau get the new years day reveal slot and are in Jan (as the other rumours said)
Eldar have been delayed due to some modelling issues, but 2-3 aspects with the codex and others with Kill Team.
New Harlquin unit via Kill Team (was there a rumour of them being reincorporated into the Craftworld box? That's false apparently)
CSM and Daemons by Summer 2022
Heresy box in Nov
Space Hulk is back next year with a 'twist' on the genestealer side.
AoS Chaos Dwarfs 2022
LOTR license is til 2026
'Air' range paints to move to dropper bottles next year.
Here's a full dump, it's a bit all over the place in terms of ordering.
Spoiler:
Generic anonymous poster on TG who has had a long happy career and doesn't want to rock the boat by influencing decisions.
Nids and guard this year
Tau over new year with a couple of models. Tau and sisters kill team box.
Eldar meant to be earlier but there was a manufacturing issue. Recent rumour engine is the avatar, half the aspects with the codex the rest via killteam over time. Codex is put for production now.
Harlequins not merging with craftworlds and are getting a new unit via killteam.
Killteam presales look very strong.
Necromunda is doing well.
Heresy release in Nov.
A few new models for the guard but mostly regiment conversion/accessory packs.
LotR renewed to 2026
WE/EC both in development
No sign of a loyalist primarch
GSC lowest selling 40k army by a good margin, deepkin for sigmar but its very close
New space hulk in summer, chapter agnostic terminators and a "twist for the tyranids"
Cursed City cost £60 each time it was sold, expansions placed on back-burner, draw a line under it and focused on 3.0.
Artificer brushes are Winsor & Newton,
Dropper bottles next year for air range
Squat kill team box next year
JP, NZ and AU markets to get a price adjustment *down* towards EU levels after the high entry barrier stunting growth.
No sign of BFG, titanicus to get a final wave next year and die, AI has stopped. Intent was to combine them but the profits weren't there.
No chance of truescale first born
Moving away from mobile trash games and wanting more AAA licenses. Dawn of War back on the cards with a relic/creative assembly team up.
Sigmar: more stormcast to come, no idea on release orders, chaos dwarves in 2022, reworked slaves to darkness under new name, overlords and fyreslayer joint release, bonereaper wave. Dominion is looking to be sold out soon, down to 10-15% total stock. Don't see it as a failure as they were either criticised for not making enough or going to face dead game claims regardless.
Warcry has supplanted mordheim but there could be themed expansions
Sisters of silence to get something with the next custodes book.
GW aware of the 4chan and TG community but consider it a cesspit so pay it little attention.
Media creators are well paid for the animations.
A lot of art is still analogue, moving over slowly.
Finecast to be gone by 2030.
Not worried about the aggressive boycott movement or 3d printers. They estimate 5% of their market have access to 3d printers at most but there is talk for partnering with some sites for licensed 3d printed accessories.
Honestly, probably made up, but there's enough weird specifics in there like stock rates and brush manufacturers that make it seem a bit more legit.
Honestly, probably made up, but there's enough weird specifics in there like stock rates and brush manufacturers that make it seem a bit more legit.
Eldar part matches the ones from earlier stating shining spears, warp spiders and swooping hawks are getting plastic. 4chan guy said 2-3 aspect warriors are coming with codex
GSC lowest selling 40k army by a good margin, deepkin for sigmar but its very close
This alone shoots these rumors in the head.
Deepkin were constantly sold out. The army itself might not be well represented, but the models? Those have shown up everyfriggingwhere.
Honestly I'm not sure, I wouldn't have predicted them at the bottom of the barrel that's for sure but they've got an old book and limited range, so I can see them taking a dip in popularity as they get older. Still I imagine skaven, or beastmen would be lower from what I've seen.
GSC lowest selling 40k army by a good margin, deepkin for sigmar but its very close
This alone shoots these rumors in the head.
Deepkin were constantly sold out. The army itself might not be well represented, but the models? Those have shown up everyfriggingwhere.
I see the big ones painted up, but rarely see troops. It also could be that we go to different stores and different areas have different sales......Crazy I know
Well, I guess we'll know for sure one way or another when we find out what releases in December, its either Guard & Tyranids or Custodes/Talons of the Emperor & Genestealer Cults. We might know sooner depending on the timing of the October/November Horus Heresy box, but thats the kind of thing where "it was moved up/delayed a week because of logistics issues" can make a difference.
The "we took a 60GBP hit per copy of Cursed City sold" bit sounds like a huuuuuuuuge load of bs. It would not and could not cost GW 185+ GBP per copy to produce, manufacture, and deliver that product. If the printed components and overseas shipping situation were the huge issues that they were rumored to be, then Dominion and the Kill Team box would have been similarly impacted (as the price for container shipping has only continued to climb since Cursed City released).
Only reason I would hope that this guys rumors might be true is because of his commentary about how irrelevant the boycott movement is and telling the anti-wokehammer crusaders to grow the feth up lol. I'd also hope for the sake of my friends in the community in NZ, AU, and JP that the rumored price reductions are true - but I would be very surprised if that happened.
Also found the part about analogue art to be questionable, I've seen a lot of GWs artists and freelancers portfolios over the last few years, the vast majority (if not all of it) was done digitally.
GSC lowest selling 40k army by a good margin, deepkin for sigmar but its very close
This alone shoots these rumors in the head.
Deepkin were constantly sold out. The army itself might not be well represented, but the models? Those have shown up everyfriggingwhere.
Honestly I'm not sure, I wouldn't have predicted them at the bottom of the barrel that's for sure but they've got an old book and limited range, so I can see them taking a dip in popularity as they get older. Still I imagine skaven, or beastmen would be lower from what I've seen.
Deepkin also got a Holiday battleforce some time back, supposedly (according to those in the know and a q&a done at warhammerfest or whatever a few years ago), the factions that get holiday battleforces are the ones which sold best during the prior year, so that would imply that at some point at least Deepkin were a bestseller. That being said, just because they sold well in year 1 doesn't mean they are selling well in year 4.
GSC lowest selling 40k army by a good margin, deepkin for sigmar but its very close
This alone shoots these rumors in the head.
Deepkin were constantly sold out. The army itself might not be well represented, but the models? Those have shown up everyfriggingwhere.
Depends on how they evaluate the numbers. If everyone is just running eels then eels are the only thing that is selling and you only need a set amount for a an army. Up until the Broken Realm/3.0 books this was very much a mono-build army in the competitive scene. These could also just be numbers from this quarter/this year so before that the army sold better. Impossible to tell as we don't have a full picture.
Also, lowest selling doesn't mean it has atrocious numbers(except GSC as that is by a good margin according to the rumor), just lowest of the AoS lines. Although I'll be honest and would have thought Beastmen of Chaos would be the lowest selling.
We probably will never know the truth about the real sales numbers.
The "we took a 60GBP hit per copy of Cursed City sold" bit sounds like a huuuuuuuuge load of bs. It would not and could not cost GW 185+ GBP per copy to produce, manufacture, and deliver that product. If the printed components and overseas shipping situation were the huge issues that they were rumored to be, then Dominion and the Kill Team box would have been similarly impacted (as the price for container shipping has only continued to climb since Cursed City released).
.
Not necessarily... It could have cost them money, because they have decided to take a hit on it. Something obviously went wrong with Cursed City, and if they didn't get all the components made/delivered (still in dispute with some manufacturers) they may not have had enough copies ready to sell for their break even line, let alone make a profit on it. That £60 could include design costs, production costs like molds etc as well as just base materials for manufacture.
I don't actually think it would be as high as £60 per box personally, but GW taking a hit on it could be plausible, there really doesn't seem to be that many of the boxes out there (which makes the amount shipped out to influencers even more perplexing but hey...).
Bago wrote: Am I the only one really enjoying some good old real rumours back at being discussed? I missed this
Nah it's great, I think people being overly skeptical and pooping on anything not from "reliable sources" led to this sort of thing not being seen/discussed. All got a bit too serious.
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streetsamurai wrote: I'd be very very surprised if deepkin and especially gsc are selling less than naked dwarves
Gsc I'm not shocked, they're a complicated army at the bottom of the competitive barrel and expensive to buy into.
Bago wrote: Am I the only one really enjoying some good old real rumours back at being discussed? I missed this
Nah it's great, I think people being overly skeptical and pooping on anything not from "reliable sources" led to this sort of thing not being seen/discussed. All got a bit too serious.
Ehhhhh...it was more that when places like BoLS, Faeit, BoK started becoming "rumor" factories and kept putting out anything that they came across, it just became pointless to really talk about them since some people exclusively view that kind of pseudo-tabloid nonsense as "legit" because they also would post up the vendor price sheets that some stores actually just email out for preorders.
Yeah no real "reliable" sources and the reliable feed fro. WHC did their thing, I'd guess. Now we had some rumours that hit home, so yeah. I am really excited if its gonna be Imps and Nids (two armies I play) or Custodes and GSC (GSC I am currently buying into). I find it really interesting that CC was a loss on each box. But that would not really explain all this communication mishap and stuff. I mean they would know that beforehand right? I am working in the automotive sector and currently every BEV is a loss. But they know this and calculate it and other models have better margins financing this
Bago wrote: Yeah no real "reliable" sources and the reliable feed fro. WHC did their thing, I'd guess. Now we had some rumours that hit home, so yeah. I am really excited if its gonna be Imps and Nids (two armies I play) or Custodes and GSC (GSC I am currently buying into). I find it really interesting that CC was a loss on each box. But that would not really explain all this communication mishap and stuff. I mean they would know that beforehand right? I am working in the automotive sector and currently every BEV is a loss. But they know this and calculate it and other models have better margins financing this
It might have become a loss if they had to replace delayed/missing components on site rather than cheaper abroad or if a large volume of stock was lost without being able to cover it via insurance fully etc. Then there's overhead of design and man hours to factor in. Something unexpected obviously happened either way and if it drove the cost of production beyond a reasonable return I could imagine the higher ups pulling the plug.
Bago wrote: Yeah no real "reliable" sources and the reliable feed fro. WHC did their thing, I'd guess. Now we had some rumours that hit home, so yeah. I am really excited if its gonna be Imps and Nids (two armies I play) or Custodes and GSC (GSC I am currently buying into). I find it really interesting that CC was a loss on each box. But that would not really explain all this communication mishap and stuff. I mean they would know that beforehand right? I am working in the automotive sector and currently every BEV is a loss. But they know this and calculate it and other models have better margins financing this
The lead time led to unforeseen Brexit related issues that killed it's profitability maybe?
Bago wrote: Yeah no real "reliable" sources and the reliable feed fro. WHC did their thing, I'd guess. Now we had some rumours that hit home, so yeah. I am really excited if its gonna be Imps and Nids (two armies I play) or Custodes and GSC (GSC I am currently buying into). I find it really interesting that CC was a loss on each box. But that would not really explain all this communication mishap and stuff. I mean they would know that beforehand right? I am working in the automotive sector and currently every BEV is a loss. But they know this and calculate it and other models have better margins financing this
It might have become a loss if they had to replace delayed/missing components on site rather than cheaper abroad or if a large volume of stock was lost without being able to cover it via insurance fully etc. Then there's overhead of design and man hours to factor in. Something unexpected obviously happened either way and if it drove the cost of production beyond a reasonable return I could imagine the higher ups pulling the plug.
Yeah that sounds reasonable, I did not consider this.
I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.
GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.
Tyran wrote: I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.
GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.
Nids feel like they are at the point where they could be a filler release. Barring superheavies or terrain, the only kits they really need are li tors and biovore/pyrovores. Redone gaunts and gene stealers would be a nice to have, but not really necessary. Codex, cards, dice, handful of kits, done. They could even throw the lictor in a battle box vs say guard.
Far more inclined to believe the B&C source with a proven track record (prices being lowered in AU?!??!?), but we'll know which is more/less reliable once the Dec books are revealed.
chaos0xomega wrote: Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...
How do we know that?
GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.
Kanluwen wrote: We'll know sooner than that, given there was a complete breakdown of what's in the BT launch box too.
The 4chan one didn't give a breakdown of the BT launch box, so we can't actually contrast the two until one of their contrasting predictions appears on the calendar.
Hmm just reading through the "whole dump" of these rumours, and the opening paragraph...
'Generic anonymous poster on TG who has had a long happy career and doesn't want to rock the boat by influencing decisions.'
So this is from someone who retired recently? Jervis Johnson?
I don't know how these rumours work but there are some points that make logical sense. What makes me wonder though, realistically what are the odds that all these ideas, across all games, rules, business dealings, artists, manufacturers etc... all came from the same guy? I mean is this something one single guy at GW would have access to? If so I imagine it must be someone high up?
Marshal Loss wrote: The 4chan one didn't give a breakdown of the BT launch box, so we can't actually contrast the two until one of their contrasting predictions appears on the calendar.
And even if it did, it would be pretty easy to just parrot the B&C rumour and go "See? I was right, too!".
The "we took a 60GBP hit per copy of Cursed City sold" bit sounds like a huuuuuuuuge load of bs. It would not and could not cost GW 185+ GBP per copy to produce, manufacture, and deliver that product. If the printed components and overseas shipping situation were the huge issues that they were rumored to be, then Dominion and the Kill Team box would have been similarly impacted (as the price for container shipping has only continued to climb since Cursed City released).
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Not necessarily... It could have cost them money, because they have decided to take a hit on it. Something obviously went wrong with Cursed City, and if they didn't get all the components made/delivered (still in dispute with some manufacturers) they may not have had enough copies ready to sell for their break even line, let alone make a profit on it. That £60 could include design costs, production costs like molds etc as well as just base materials for manufacture.
I don't actually think it would be as high as £60 per box personally, but GW taking a hit on it could be plausible, there really doesn't seem to be that many of the boxes out there (which makes the amount shipped out to influencers even more perplexing but hey...).
If this was the case then they would be strongly incentivized to print and sell more copies to hit break-even.
Even still - mega unlikely this is the case, they were messaging an intent to support the product up until release, they would have known the cost of goods sold well before this point, theres few if any scenarios where they go to launch amd suddenly realize they are operatong at a loss.
chaos0xomega wrote: Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...
How do we know that?
GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.
Yep, one of the designers at a previous Warhammer fest said something to the effect that in its first week on sale AT outsold the games entire first year of projected sales by some multiple (iirc 4-5x) and that the sales continued to outperform expectations after that
Even still - mega unlikely this is the case, they were messaging an intent to support the product up until release, they would have known the cost of goods sold well before this point, theres few if any scenarios where they go to launch amd suddenly realize they are operatong at a loss.
It has been a wild year and a half so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of factors that changed along the ways along with the friends we've made.
Regarding sales of Titanicus it is hard to say if the sales numbers continued after the initial year. With no data we have no idea if AT has continued to perform or went down. Where I live the first Grand Master starter sold remarkably well along with the first few releases, but after that sales dropped and some battleforces and starters are languishing in the shelves as there are barely a handful of people playing it locally.
Again, hard to tell unless we have direct access to sales data.
It could also be that the "sales weren't there" is associated with AI rather than AT and that AT just doesn't have any future plans after the original roadmap, which in most instances means GW abandons the project and the line sort of dies until a designer/team decides to revisit it. It is not uncommon for game companies to finish a roadmap and then just not think about creating a new one unless it is one of the lead moneymakers.
The "we took a 60GBP hit per copy of Cursed City sold" bit sounds like a huuuuuuuuge load of bs. It would not and could not cost GW 185+ GBP per copy to produce, manufacture, and deliver that product. If the printed components and overseas shipping situation were the huge issues that they were rumored to be, then Dominion and the Kill Team box would have been similarly impacted (as the price for container shipping has only continued to climb since Cursed City released).
.
Not necessarily... It could have cost them money, because they have decided to take a hit on it. Something obviously went wrong with Cursed City, and if they didn't get all the components made/delivered (still in dispute with some manufacturers) they may not have had enough copies ready to sell for their break even line, let alone make a profit on it. That £60 could include design costs, production costs like molds etc as well as just base materials for manufacture.
I don't actually think it would be as high as £60 per box personally, but GW taking a hit on it could be plausible, there really doesn't seem to be that many of the boxes out there (which makes the amount shipped out to influencers even more perplexing but hey...).
If this was the case then they would be strongly incentivized to print and sell more copies to hit break-even.
Even still - mega unlikely this is the case, they were messaging an intent to support the product up until release, they would have known the cost of goods sold well before this point, theres few if any scenarios where they go to launch amd suddenly realize they are operatong at a loss.
Cursed City stinks of a contract dispute at the moment, even if they could get more components now, lawyers will have mothballed everything.
And there are scenarios, a massive shipment of components not arriving on time and being told by the manufacturers it will arrive until a few weeks before release date, with GW knowing they could still pull it together and get them out till that point.
You can't sell an incomplete item, so not being able to sell the full allocation affects the profit on those that have sold.
chaos0xomega wrote: Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...
How do we know that?
GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.
Yeah, and GW is smart about marketing no matter what forum dwellers say. If they're selling out, they're making plenty of money. Their breakeven point would be well below a sellout. Shoot, FW can't keep their resin components for AT in stock either. But the part I believe even less is that there were plans to 'combine' AT and AI. That sounds a lot like the standard forum chatter from people who don't play those games but see similarly scaled miniatures. I'm much more likely to believe that they're simply nearing the finish line for the AT:HH project.
And the way I look at it...if it's done after 2022, then 2022 should be an awesome year for the game, probably with two more Titan chassis and one or more corrupted Titans. In that instance, the game honestly would be in a good place. I could definitely see a pause at that point. Any xenos Titans, etc. would likely come later in a Adeptus Titanicus: The Scouring relaunch or something like that anyway.
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xttz wrote: I'd laugh so hard if it turned out Cursed City had half of the rulebooks & components stuck aboard the Ever Given
I figure it's all resting on the ocean floor next to the Eldar Falcon tanks.
chaos0xomega wrote: Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...
How do we know that?
GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.
Yeah, and GW is smart about marketing no matter what forum dwellers say. If they're selling out, they're making plenty of money. Their breakeven point would be well below a sellout. Shoot, FW can't keep their resin components for AT in stock either. But the part I believe even less is that there were plans to 'combine' AT and AI. That sounds a lot like the standard forum chatter from people who don't play those games but see similarly scaled miniatures. I'm much more likely to believe that they're simply nearing the finish line for the AT:HH project.
And the way I look at it...if it's done after 2022, then 2022 should be an awesome year for the game, probably with two more Titan chassis and one or more corrupted Titans. In that instance, the game honestly would be in a good place. I could definitely see a pause at that point. Any xenos Titans, etc. would likely come later in a Adeptus Titanicus: The Scouring relaunch or something like that anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xttz wrote: I'd laugh so hard if it turned out Cursed City had half of the rulebooks & components stuck aboard the Ever Given
I figure it's all resting on the ocean floor next to the Eldar Falcon tanks.
Eldarsif wrote: Regarding sales of Titanicus it is hard to say if the sales numbers continued after the initial year. With no data we have no idea if AT has continued to perform or went down. Where I live the first Grand Master starter sold remarkably well along with the first few releases, but after that sales dropped and some battleforces and starters are languishing in the shelves as there are barely a handful of people playing it locally.
If you genuinely have maniple boxes just sitting on shelves in your area...well, I'm not telling you to scalp them but people are looking for them and can't find them anywhere.
Yep, one of the designers at a previous Warhammer fest said something to the effect that in its first week on sale AT outsold the games entire first year of projected sales by some multiple (iirc 4-5x) and that the sales continued to outperform expectations after that
Maybe next time they start epic related game they up expections. Epic armageddon exceeded gw's expectations by 400%.
Seems like obliterators are not on the radar for csm. Really hate when they release a unit in a big box and never release it afterwards as a real kit (or years later)
streetsamurai wrote: Seems like obliterators are not on the radar for csm. Really hate when they release a unit in a big box and never release it afterwards as a real kit (or years later)
hopefully it doesn't take as long to get them as deffcoptas
Tyran wrote: I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.
GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.
The big thing here is that GSC will likely just get a character (rumored saboteur) and a rules update, which is all they really need. So it'll be fast, get them up and running, and then we move on to other things.
Tyranids need a bit more love. At LEAST get the Lictor into plastic.
Tyran wrote: I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.
GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.
The big thing here is that GSC will likely just get a character (rumored saboteur) and a rules update, which is all they really need. So it'll be fast, get them up and running, and then we move on to other things.
Tyranids need a bit more love. At LEAST get the Lictor into plastic.
Well there is the rumour of a KT box of Catachans vs Nids in the jungle- good chance for a lictor killteam perhaps?
Tyran wrote: I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.
GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.
The big thing here is that GSC will likely just get a character (rumored saboteur) and a rules update, which is all they really need. So it'll be fast, get them up and running, and then we move on to other things.
Tyranids need a bit more love. At LEAST get the Lictor into plastic.
Well there is the rumour of a KT box of Catachans vs Nids in the jungle- good chance for a lictor killteam perhaps?
Potentially nothing but could be a hint, a local GW was having a lot of the stealer cults range being changed over to direct only and the stock wound down. They were down from stocking all characters to just the kelermorph and magus.
Could be to help get stuff off the shelves for a repack, could be because they need range to shove all the new orks on.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Probably. Local GW stores definitely don't know any more (and probably less) about December releases at this point than anyone here.
Oh I agree, but the stock movements and reallocation can be a giveaway sometimes. In this case it is likely just to make room on the shelves, but it'll make it expensive/hard to market stealer cults with half the range gone imo.
If they get a Christmas release slot they might rotate back in with new packaging however.
(jk)
