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Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Me too. But that doesn't look like what we'll be getting. So I really hope we get rules that allow us to go pure Lost and The Damned in the CSM codex if these leaks are true. I'll definitely miss my Russes and Valkyries though.
My R&H have been used exclusively as Astra Militarum since 8th. If the new CSM book has rules for traitor Guard squads but no support for their vehicles (or Ogryns), I can't see that changing.
My pie-in-the-sky wish is that the CSM codex allows infantry squads to tag along as part of a ramshackle LatD list, while the Astra Militarum codex provides a regimental option explicitly for Chaos Guard so as to represent more organized forces.
Best I could see happening is they get Traitor Leman Russ and Traitor Chimeras in the same vein as Brood Brothers in Codex: Genestealer Cults, in addition to the option of taking a <Militarum Traitoris> Imperial Guard Detachment.
Arbitrator wrote: I'd rather see Lost & Damned as their own codex, but GSC hasn't exactly proven itself the most popular army around which might have spooked them into simply rolling all of their content into CSM, particularly if they've not been able to figure out a gameplay 'niche' for them that Guard and GSC don't already perform.
Me too. But that doesn't look like what we'll be getting. So I really hope we get rules that allow us to go pure Lost and The Damned in the CSM codex if these leaks are true. I'll definitely miss my Russes and Valkyries though.
My R&H have been used exclusively as Astra Militarum since 8th. If the new CSM book has rules for traitor Guard squads but no support for their vehicles (or Ogryns), I can't see that changing.
My pie-in-the-sky wish is that the CSM codex allows infantry squads to tag along as part of a ramshackle LatD list, while the Astra Militarum codex provides a regimental option explicitly for Chaos Guard so as to represent more organized forces.
Best I could see happening is they get Traitor Leman Russ and Traitor Chimeras in the same vein as Brood Brothers in Codex: Genestealer Cults, in addition to the option of taking a <Militarum Traitoris> Imperial Guard Detachment.
That could work. It would be a way to get some actual Guard vehicles in there.
@Catbarf: BSF had mutant Ogryns. Maybe those will be in there as well.
I too would prefer a dedicated CSM codex (cultists can stay if they have the same limits that they do in the TS book), a dedicated Renegades & Heretics/Traitor Guard type codex (i.e. no marines), and a combined Lost and the Damned type codex ala the old Eye of Terror army list (combination of both of the above).
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: I too would prefer a dedicated CSM codex (cultists can stay if they have the same limits that they do in the TS book), a dedicated Renegades & Heretics/Traitor Guard type codex (i.e. no marines), and a combined Lost and the Damned type codex ala the old Eye of Terror army list (combination of both of the above).
You could fold lost and the damned as with marine support / leaders into the R&H dex. Don't forget that the template of IA13 actually would've allowed that, just as much as it had allowed to field dark mechanicus forces and upgraded the Demagogue into a Heretek...
Edit: As for the rumours, I like the BSF models, but i fear that it will turn out like GSC in many ways-
Also i hope that the list will be flexible enough to build daemonic and non daemonic cults aswell as trained armies.
BSF gave us:
Traitor commisar Mutated ogryn Psyker
Traitor guardsmen Cultists with interesting weapons options (Never forget the stubcarbine, GL and Stubber) Negavolt cultists.
What by comparison is missing bur rumored to show up:
Mutants (we got that seemingly covered in the rumor) HQ with bodyguard. (covered also shame that FW stopped producing their R&H command) Banner bearer (banners were always kinda big thing for R&H, i do hope the banner bearer will have a good looking one, since we can't expect multiple options nowadays for looks....)
Stuff that would need to show up: Heavy weapons (could be handled with upgrade sprue) Elite infantry (Stuff like disciples and Veterans aswell as marauders, not covered, needs to happen, the fanatically inclined ranks were always key) Enforcer / commisar equivalent, especially if the Traitor commissar becomes an HQ Priest of some type ( were actually a thing then got lost somewhere in transition, with DA and faith seemingly playing an important part a small DA wannabee might be an actully interesting model. Chaos spawn. no seriously just needs a new modell. Ogryns , we got only a bodyguard version, an actual melee version in a dual kit for oversized mutants would be very welcome.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/17 07:41:45
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
chaos0xomega wrote: I too would prefer a dedicated CSM codex (cultists can stay if they have the same limits that they do in the TS book), a dedicated Renegades & Heretics/Traitor Guard type codex (i.e. no marines), and a combined Lost and the Damned type codex ala the old Eye of Terror army list (combination of both of the above).
You could fold lost and the damned as with marine support / leaders into the R&H dex. Don't forget that the template of IA13 actually would've allowed that, just as much as it had allowed to field dark mechanicus forces and upgraded the Demagogue into a Heretek...
You could, but I wouldn't see that as a good thing. Separating it into three ensures a separation of flavor. I want a true chaos space marines army list where the core of the army is built around chaos space marines and you aren't forced to include non-CSM to build the right mix of unit and weapon types. I want a true traitor guard army list where the core of the army is built around guardsmen and you aren't forced to include non-traitor guard to build the right mix of unit and weapon types. I then went the Lost and the Damned as a hybrid of these two army lists with their own unique units, etc. to include things like daemons and less commonly encountered chaos forces.
In my mind, hybridizing traitor guard and LatD will just dilute the flavor of both armies, moreso to the detriment of the traitor guard side of the house, and I don't want that.
And dark mechanicus should likewise be a separtate standalone codex IMO.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Arbitrator wrote: Demiurg being a modern imaging of the Squats would both give GW more freedom to play up the Space Dwarf theme, whilst giving Tau an ally and adding another Xenos army to balance out the mount of Imperial ones. But I fully expect they'll be an Imperial army with a Copyrightius Markium name. The "SQUATS ARE -BACK-!" memes from the Community and community will do all the marketing they could ever need, plus all the influencers who can go "Haha im playing/painting SQUATs thats something i bet you never thought i would say XDDD" Being Imperials also means they can sell them to Marine players as allies.
People are dismissing the rumours based on Squats being mentioned, but you'd probably get a similar reaction six years ago if you said Guilliman would be getting a 40k model, Space Marines would get an entire range refresh as 'Primaris' and Genestealer Cults are returning as a standalone faction.
They could certainly bring squats back as an independent faction - the short text from PA referencing them made them seem like not imperium aligned after their disappearance. As you say the hype of "The Return of the Squats" would be perfect marketing so I see them back as Squats [renamed officially ] rather than demiurg. Could bring them back as a Killteam first as a taster/tester the way Krieg where brought out.
GSC where also dismissed as never coming back -they looked out of place/ridiculous with their limos and I remember Phil Kelly I think. saying ages before he didn't see them as a tabletop force more as an infiltrating one. Then that changed so they could do the same for squats, reworked with an intiial release and a follow up if they sell. AoS has shown they can do very interesting things with the dwarf type and their dwarf sculpts are fantastic now, less comical than before - the Gotrek model is wonderful. Plus todays rumour engine looks to have dwarf proportions on the arm/hand and is 40k in nature, thats 3 rumour engines looking dwarf/squat like which to me is heavily suggestive of at least a Killteam.
On eldar getting a big update - they have a larger section that needs updated, and have done for ages - its one of the reasons I lost interest as the plastic infantry models where so limited compared to my other army, Nids. A ranger set for Killteam along with the rumoured sets would be fantastic [just not for my wallet]. New Nids would be great but I wouldn't begrudge the Eldar getting release ahead of them as the Nid range is very solid - maybe a model or two with Octarius vol 2.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/17 12:37:00
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Until we get a new codex that wraps it all together.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Until we get a new codex that wraps it all together.
Hopefully sometime soonish.
Not too soon or the campaign book they want you to buy is redundant 2 months later, unless they only move 50% into the codex or leave out the campaign rules from the codex ofc.
Plus they'll all be invalidated by a new Codex that combines all three.
And you wonder why so many of us have abandoned buying GW's printed material...
But hoo boy! That Neurothrope rule. -1Ld? I think that's what every army calls out for these days. Slight debuffs to enemy leadership are downright game breaking. Watch out AdMech and Dark Eldar - here come the Neuropthropes!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/17 14:01:15
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
They might roll the nid PA rules into this book like they did with CSM & the Charadon book
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
They might roll the nid PA rules into this book like they did with CSM & the Charadon book
Fair point, if they do then nids to the back of the bus and it yet again points toward the long rumour leak being more accurate potentially.
You're all too naive. Clearly this points to a new Nids codex dropping in December (as we already thought) while 1 week later/earlier the Octarius book will drop ALSO containing new Nid rules. Maybe an army of renown or a supplement too?
This is the new trend - day 1 DLC for every new codex. Since GW can't milk every faction for supplement books like Loyalist Marines, they've found another way to make everyone buy two new books.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
They might roll the nid PA rules into this book like they did with CSM & the Charadon book
Fair point, if they do then nids to the back of the bus and it yet again points toward the long rumour leak being more accurate potentially.
Yeah its looking that way so far.. be interesting to see where the Nid rumour engine pics fit in to this- maybe an accompanying model or two? I also wonder what they are going to put in Octarius vol2 in the future? I had expected Nids in that one.. Maybe its Octarius. Vol2 -the Squats revenge...
Fergie0044 wrote: You're all too naive. Clearly this points to a new Nids codex dropping in December (as we already thought) while 1 week later/earlier the Octarius book will drop ALSO containing new Nid rules. Maybe an army of renown or a supplement too?
This is the new trend - day 1 DLC for every new codex. Since GW can't milk every faction for supplement books like Loyalist Marines, they've found another way to make everyone buy two new books.
Word on the street is GSC are the xenos book this year, which Nids getting a "get-you-by" set of rules would reinforce. I'm open to suggestions how the preview indicated anything locked to specific hive fleets (supplement) or limited army builds (army of renown) though.
Tyranid getting their codex supplement way ahead of actual codex due to delays or these are supposed to get you by?
I took it to suggest there were a generic stop-gap upgrade for nids via the campaign book, so they'll have the pleasure of needing codex + Psychic awakening + Octarius to play a standard game.
Yea q is thus is this more like dark eldar got or more like pa(maybe including pa rules). Ie main book still far away(leading credence to gsc being december xenos)
Fergie0044 wrote: You're all too naive. Clearly this points to a new Nids codex dropping in December (as we already thought) while 1 week later/earlier the Octarius book will drop ALSO containing new Nid rules. Maybe an army of renown or a supplement too?
This is the new trend - day 1 DLC for every new codex. Since GW can't milk every faction for supplement books like Loyalist Marines, they've found another way to make everyone buy two new books.
Get you by warmer rules now and proper book later isn't making gw any less money than main book and day 1 dlc. Either way you sell 2 books
.
Actually this would open third book. Get you by book, main codex, day 1 dlc.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But hoo boy! That Neurothrope rule. -1Ld? I think that's what every army calls out for these days. Slight debuffs to enemy leadership are downright game breaking. Watch out AdMech and Dark Eldar - here come the Neuropthropes!!!
For what it's worth, the Adaptive Physiology selections that GW previewed prior to Blood of Baal were also the bad ones, but we got Enhanced Resistance, Dermic Symbiosis, and Dynamic Camouflage as diamonds in the rough.
And you think the ability to take two of the same Adaptive Physiology is going to survive to the Codex proper?
I guess my point is that they continue to persist with these milquetoast leadership debuff rules that no one actually takes. They really do play a different game to there rest of us.
The rumours strongly pointing to GSC in December make me think this is another 'get you buy' book rather than Day 1 DLC. Not that one is an improvement over the other of course.
They could certainly bring squats back as an independent faction - the short text from PA referencing them made them seem like not imperium aligned after their disappearance. As you say the hype of "The Return of the Squats" would be perfect marketing so I see them back as Squats [renamed officially ] rather than demiurg. Could bring them back as a Killteam first as a taster/tester the way Krieg where brought out. GSC where also dismissed as never coming back -they looked out of place/ridiculous with their limos and I remember Phil Kelly I think. saying ages before he didn't see them as a tabletop force more as an infiltrating one. Then that changed so they could do the same for squats, reworked with an intiial release and a follow up if they sell. AoS has shown they can do very interesting things with the dwarf type and their dwarf sculpts are fantastic now, less comical than before - the Gotrek model is wonderful. Plus todays rumour engine looks to have dwarf proportions on the arm/hand and is 40k in nature, thats 3 rumour engines looking dwarf/squat like which to me is heavily suggestive of at least a Killteam.
A few years ago I'd have agreed, but it now feels like GW want to slot each of the factions into the Imperium/Chaos/Xenos category, even if the latter can't align. Their website and webstore designs certainly err on having three compact categories, whereas before it was a lot more 'yeah these are just armies and some of them happen to be on the same team'.
My guess is that Squats will have the <Imperial> keyword, but with a lore stipulation that they're still pretty independent and some groups still get into slugging matches with local Imperial systems if relations get too strained, probably with a sub-faction who're more independent/aggressive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/17 14:46:24
H.B.M.C. wrote: Plus they'll all be invalidated by a new Codex that combines all three.
And you wonder why so many of us have abandoned buying GW's printed material...
But hoo boy! That Neurothrope rule. -1Ld? I think that's what every army calls out for these days. Slight debuffs to enemy leadership are downright game breaking. Watch out AdMech and Dark Eldar - here come the Neuropthropes!!!
The combination of attrition and leadership mods is unseen so far in 9th and is potentially good. The -1 tipping a unit closer to auto-fail morale and then if you take them under half you're losing half that remaining unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/17 15:10:22
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
(jk)
