The witchburner general stoops as he enters through the small door to my cell. His cold eyes meet mine, but I quickly turn my gaze to the floor. “You may deliver the Special Announcement,” he rasps. Swallowing what little spit remains in my suddenly parched mouth, I turn to the telegraph machine...
It is with immense pleasure that we can announce that a Trench Crusade skirmish game is currently in development! And we have pulled off something of a coup, managing to recruit (with only a little inquisitorial encouragement) none other than the mighty Tuomas Pirinen as game designer! Yes - the very same Tuomas Pirinen who designed Mordheim and Warhammer Fantasy Battle 6th edition! Exclamation marks!!! More exclamation marks!!!!!*
Ahem. Carefully sealed within his chamber in the highest tower of New Antioch, blessed by the hand of the Red Cardinal himself, Tuomas has been given all the parchment, quills and blood - um, I mean ink - he should require, along with the finest holy dice, carved from the bones of saints martyred in the trenches. Fed the very best gruel, strained from the Cardinal’s leftovers, no less, along with holy watered-down ale (passed through the tiny hatch into his cell thrice daily), our hallowed game designer has all he needs. Blessings of the Holy Bomb upon him. Amen.
We will bring you more news as the game develops, but for now that is all the information we are allowed to share. The witchburner just cleared his throat, and is now staring at me in a way that I find most distressing. In fact, I suddenly find my bowels loosening... Must dash!
+++++++
We hope this missive finds you all well, and wish every one of you a very jolly Happy & Healthy New Year!
Mike Franchina & James Sherriff
[And if you missed out on the miniature-only Kickstarter we ran earlier in 2022, we are taking late pledges on BackerKit for a short while longer! You can join the crusade here: https://trench-crusade.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders]
Sabotage! wrote: Considering Mordheim is my favorite game ever, this is a skirmish game, AND the art direction this seems right up my alley.
Looking forward to more on this.
Please tell me you fine folks are planning on doing a full accompanying miniature line.
Thanks Sabotage! We are indeed planning a complete miniature line to go with this. So far we have the miniatures from the small Kickstarter we did a few months back, but we have many, many more planned for the game!
Sabotage! wrote: Considering Mordheim is my favorite game ever, this is a skirmish game, AND the art direction this seems right up my alley.
Looking forward to more on this.
Please tell me you fine folks are planning on doing a full accompanying miniature line.
Thanks Sabotage! We are indeed planning a complete miniature line to go with this. So far we have the miniatures from the small Kickstarter we did a few months back, but we have many, many more planned for the game!
That's awesome! The stuff you did in the first Kickstarter looks really great. I'm eagerly awaiting the game and rest of the miniatures line.
The atmosphere in that art is thick enough you need a knife to cut it.
I'm intrigued.
I commented on that when the Kickstarter thread was opened for the initial figures. The small amount of background there about Papal forces getting bogged down in a 1000 years of war following a demon portal or suchlike opening in Jerusalem.
It's along the lines of the Crusader's Siege of Jerusalem morphing into a 1000 year long 'Western Front' style trench warfare with added supernatural goings on.
I'm super excited to get my stuff from the Kickstarter. Was planning on basing them as those new Heavier Weapon Teams for my Traitor Guard, but now may wait until their own rule set gets released...
The artwork design makes me think "what happen if World War 1 and the Dark Soul video game series had a baby ?". It's certainly a very specific direction.
Looks really disturbing. Guy with the elongated helm reminds me of a horror game creature. And the nurse would be right at home in a hospital during a zombie apocalypse.
One thing is obvious though: In their culture it is an affront to show your face. Curious what comes next.
Strg Alt wrote: Looks really disturbing. Guy with the elongated helm reminds me of a horror game creature. And the nurse would be right at home in a hospital during a zombie apocalypse.
One thing is obvious though: In their culture it is an affront to show your face. Curious what comes next.
Maybe you leave yourself vulnerable to demonic possession if you make direct eye contact?
The art and models look amazing, but my hobby budget is already allocated to other things
Busy sculpting, playtesting and all manner of other 'game designy' type stuff, but will have a proper update soon. In the meantime, here's the Procession of Sacred Affliction:
"Spurred on by zealous preachers, the Procession makes pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Passing through the Gate of Martyrs is a true showing of one's devotion to the crusade."
Both are fine, upstanding examples, but the only certainty is that I need that model. This range is shaping up very nicely for crazy-bonkers sculpts. The little touch of that wig showing from under the helmet is inspired.
Exalted pilgrims! I bring you an announcement from Brother Tuomas of Pirinen (formerly of Mordheim):
"I hereby announce that I am working on a new Miniature Skirmish wargame, called the Trench Crusade! For the last 6 months I have been collaborating with Mike Franchina (the artist) and James Sherriff (the sculptor) to bring this game to you. The world of Trench Crusade and the accompanying miniature range were already a successful Kickstarter, so when I was asked to write the rules for a skirmish game set in this world in the grand tradition of Mordheim, I simply had to say yes!" - Tuomas Pirinen, designer of Mordheim
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:A lot of Mordheim, mixed with a few drops of Helldorado, and even Dust, has me stupidly excited. Can't wait for game-play updates.
Thanks, Neomaxim! Next up is a game overview written by Mr Mordheim himself...
alphaecho wrote:
More artwork that doesn't disappoint.
Is that a papal titan in the background, suffering from a loss to a giant hell demon?
Yeah, Mike's artwork is always badass. Glad you like it! As for the whether that is a 'papal titan' in the background, who can say...?
+++𝗧𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗵 𝗖𝗿𝘂𝘀𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗶𝗲𝘄 𝗯𝘆 𝗧𝘂𝗼𝗺𝗮𝘀 𝗣𝗶𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗲𝗻+++ Trench Crusade is a skirmish-scale tabletop miniature game that will plunge players deep into a horrifying alternate timeline. During the Crusades a heretical band of Templars dared defy the Almighty and, casting aside their sacred vows, unleashed the forces of Hell upon the Earth. Over 800 years later, in the Year of Our Lord 1914, this brutal, merciless war between the forces of Heaven and Hell rages on. This is not just a fight for survival, but a cataclysmic struggle that will decide the very fate of humanity's soul.
𝗚𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗠𝗲𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗶𝗰𝘀 𝗢𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗶𝗲𝘄 The game uses an alternating activation system where players take turns to control one of the warriors in their warband. Each time you attempt any action except movement, you roll to see how well you succeed. This mechanic governs most actions of the game.
At its heart, this core mechanic is simple: Decide which action you attempt to take, pick two 6-sided dice and roll to see if an action succeeds. Typically, you need 7 or more to succeed. Your warrior may also be extremely competent (for example a sharpshooter trying to hit an enemy with a Sniper Rifle could have a bonus of up to +3 to the roll!).
Each model may take as many Actions as they are allowed based on their profile and the weapons and equipment they carry. These could be attacks in melee or ranged shots, sprinting, climbing and many others.
However, there are many modifiers that can make the chance of success easier or harder! In the example above, if the enemy is behind cover, the target number becomes 9. Other circumstances may make the target number even higher, as high as 12! For example, should your opponent be heavily armoured, the difficulty level of attacking them in melee or in missile combat will be increased.
Choose which actions you attempt carefully, though! The Activation of the model ends immediately if you fail an Action, at which point your opponent can activate one of their models. So your sniper may have an Aim Action which will make the shot they take much easier, but if you fail, your Activation ends before you can even pull the trigger!
Various modifiers, special skills, weapons and equipment may also grant Bonus and Penalty Dice. Each Bonus Dice will allow you to roll one additional D6 and then pick the two highest results amongst them, while each penalty dice does the opposite. These bonus and penalty dice can come through special skills, equipment or abilities the warriors may have.
In combat, should your attack prove successful, you roll on an Injury chart with a D6. A result of 5 or more means a typical opponent is taken out of action, while a result of 1-4 means the warrior is merely knocked down. However, should your foe be especially tough or well-armoured, you might need a 6 to take them out, or in the case of some mighty monstrosities a first hit will never take them out - you have to first knock them down before you can try to take them out for good! Some other opponents, such as the zombie-like Metastatic Vessels, are immune to being knocked down and keep coming unless they suffer a debilitating damage.
These examples only scratch the surface, of course. The aim of the rules is to be easy to pick up, but offer unrivalled depth. We want the game to have the depth of the old-school games without saddling the player with undue book-keeping or having to remember a plethora of rules at all times.
The Rules will include the following:
- 12 different scenarios to challenge your force
- Rules for six different warbands including the Trench Pilgrims, the demonic Black Grail, stalwart forces of New Antioch and more!
- Selection of Mercenaries you can hire to bolster your own force
- Campaign system where the scenarios and the Loot you find change and evolve the further the campaign continues
- Glory system that allows your heroes to gain favours, equipment and weapons which no amount of money can buy
- Permanent Injuries that can maim your unlucky warriors in mind, body and soul
- Experience and Character progression system with more than 40 skills for your warriors to acquire through hard-fought battles
- Start your warrior at humble level 1 and see them climb up to a mighty level 24!
- Alternative rules for vehicles, critical hits and much more!
And there you have it - a brief overview of the forthcoming Trench Crusade game. Are you ready to join the faithful on the front lines?
I have zero idea about the factions but I have evidence* that Antioch make nice hand grenades.
* Yes that evidence is Monty Python and the Holy Grail but you have to start somewhere.
They make the holiest of hand grenades. They also don't like rabbits.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Attention, pilgrims!
Brother Tuomas will be making a brief pilgrimage to Play Modena in Italy this weekend. There, he will be giving a talk on game design, including talking a little about Trench Crusade!
A hardback tome that is part artbook, part lore compendium and part rulebook.
60+ different miniatures including starter sets for each of the core warbands.
Terrain, tokens, and more…
Everything available physically and digitally.
Quite interested in this, we have a local play group and iv enjoyed a few demo games. But if its going to be anything more than a curiosity it needs to get the starter sets and models into stores
Phobos wrote: This looks interesting but reading the thread. It goes back nearly 2 years. What’s been going on this whole time?
If the Kickstarter is more of a pre-order rather than a gathering of funds to start from scratch I would hazard a guess that
A hardback tome that is part artbook, part lore compendium and part rulebook.
60+ different miniatures including starter sets for each of the core warbands.
Terrain, tokens, and more…
Everything available physically and digitally.
could take up to two years?
I'm not a games designer and/ or miniature sculptor though.
Phobos wrote: This looks interesting but reading the thread. It goes back nearly 2 years. What’s been going on this whole time?
2 years is normal development time, the problem now is influencers / celebrity devs announcing a project before they've ever put pen on paper, and you have to watch and wait the whole time when normally you wouldn't know something is being made until almost preorder time. Ever better if there's a Patreon - dragging out a nothingburger project for years just by engaging fans and posting the odd scribble is good money these days.
Phobos wrote: This looks interesting but reading the thread. It goes back nearly 2 years. What’s been going on this whole time?
The issue with most kickstarters/crowdfunding campaigns nowadays is that the projects have barely started when the crowdfunding begins, which means all of the heavy development work only begins once the money gets unlocked and in some cases people handling the campaigns aren't truly prepared for what comes next, so that adds delays upon delays, which are often not seen.
In essence most of these campaigns that take a long time are like a commercial product that gets published on the conceptual phase, then investors have to wait for the concepts to slowly turn into reality with all of the iterations in between to actually develop the product that you were promised in the conceptual phase.
The quick campaigns on kickstarter are usually things that are already done and just need to be produced in scale or which are digital products and thus have a smaller time to market.
Also, they had some trouble with the first kickstarter they ran which I'm sure hasnt helped:
(taken from the mailing list announcement for the new kickstarter)
Spoiler:
"As many of you may already know, we ran a small Kickstarter campaign for a handful of concept models. Our supplier had a major issue obtaining the raw material for production, which then caused us to miss our time slot with our fulfillment partners.
It’s at this point that James, one of the TC team, rolled up his sleeves and decided to send out all the rewards himself. 2000+ parcels. Packing, labeling and shipping. From his garage.
It cannot be understated what a massive undertaking this is. The man is a legend and if we are here today it’s because of his hard work.
Delivery is now complete. To everyone that backed the campaign, thank you. You have all shown a level of understanding and patience which is, quite frankly, rare nowadays.
It’s out of respect for these backers that we didn’t want to talk too much about the future of the Trench Crusade until now and we’re very excited to finally do so!
Trench Crusade will be returning to Kickstarter on October 29th, 2024!"
The KS was also very popular and had way more people pledge for the miniatures than they could have expected.
Delays happen with quite a few of these projects.At the end of the day people still got the miniatures they pledged for.
It is also a good indication of what to expect with the New one this Month.
I am sure lots of people are looking forward to being-able to add more of the official miniatures to thier collections.
The terrain items have me interested and i cant wait to see what they maybe.
Phobos wrote: This looks interesting but reading the thread. It goes back nearly 2 years. What’s been going on this whole time?
Pretty large community on Facebook.
Getting the last Kickstarter out the door completely has taken most of the time with the Developers being adamant about not doing another Kickstarter till the first one was completed. They have been getting all the models ready for printing and there has been multiple reworks of the rules. I think the first edition (Playtest) was on the 4th iteration when I last downloaded it. There is an absolute flood of information that has been released about the world and factions within it. They are making sure everything will be set for the Kickstarter and supported afterward. Tuomas has been available in the Facebook feed and has taken feedback on the game.
There is a whole world being crafted with interactions from the different factions. It is a huge undertaking that I have seen and won't be a blank canvass that might eventually get some work done.
One of my group is really interested in the game and the art direction. It's a little darker (Heavier demonic tones) than I like, but I have printed off a couple of the models and they are fantastic.
I was going to say KS delivery is not complete, but my friend who backed just said his pledge is in customs. But he did have to pester the company a lot, allegedly they incorrectly marked him as dispatched early on.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: STLs feel really pricey versus physical models. I definitely am in for the book, but am not sure if I can go as all-in as I originally expected.
Physical model purchase seems almost pointless given that they're printing them though. Also I'm assuming this is gonna be heavily pirated too there's so many eyes on it, I would guess they're also expecting this, that could be one reason for the pricing structure. I'm going to get the book and maybe + one STL warband, Antioch I suppose.
Actually, how do the human models scale up with other ranges out there? Haven't seen any scale comparisons so far myself and some of these models are just amazingly grimdark.
BrookM wrote: Actually, how do the human models scale up with other ranges out there? Haven't seen any scale comparisons so far myself and some of these models are just amazingly grimdark.
Photo from Reddit - the models are from their last KS
I should be all over this but it's got all the red flags.
- new account (o created, 0 backed)
- nickel and diming for individual sculpts, even for digital
- boutique prices
- hostile shipping
- fulfillment through generic 3d print farm
It reads like a slow burn all-marketing, no-content project to me. They spent years dropping big names and building a rabid fanbase but doing no business legwork, now they're cashing out, charging high rates for lowest bidder subcontractor fulfillment.
I foresee a lot of frustration and disappointment here, again (but you wouldn't know about the frustration of the first KS because they changed accounts), certainly for physical backers.
You can get the playtest and quickstart rules here, and they're active on social media - but yeah, I thought they were doing 'proper' plastics for the warbands but it looks like everything is 3D printed.
The physical minis will be printed by Only-Games, who've got a poor reputation. This has been brought up in the comments, to which the Trench Crusade team replied:
Jamie wrote:As for OG, I heard the same things as you and read the same reviews. After having gone through things with them at length and done a lot of test printing (see the KS page) I can confidently say that you have nothing to worry about for your TC minis.
Of course, Only-Games get bad reviews because they often don't do good work, not because they can't ever do good work. I'm sure they did their best trying to land this job, but that says nothing about how they'll go about fulfilling thousands of orders.
Not sold on the universe. Friend likes the look of it, but the cost is too high for me. Even doing the digital pledge (I'd do the whole thing $399), that's more than I am willing to spend on an unknown with so many other options out there.
Theophony wrote: Not sold on the universe. Friend likes the look of it, but the cost is too high for me. Even doing the digital pledge (I'd do the whole thing $399), that's more than I am willing to spend on an unknown with so many other options out there.
I hear your concerns - so I'm also interested in these other similar options you're talking about - help me out with some links!
The print farm stuff has made me hold off on purchasing any of the physical models. Call me paranoid, but I'd rather just wait for the initial (non-influencer) reviews to come out instead of risking it and it being another one of those "the first few waves were a disaster" like Warmachine MkIV. I'm not against print farms as a way of selling people models, there's just not enough FOMO going on to make me pay up right now. Shipping costs will probably end up devouring the Kickstarter discount anyway.
I must say that after all the massive hype there was on social media I had expected it to be pulling higher numbers already, but maybe the lack of exclusives is making people more willing to wait and see.
Theophony wrote: Not sold on the universe. Friend likes the look of it, but the cost is too high for me. Even doing the digital pledge (I'd do the whole thing $399), that's more than I am willing to spend on an unknown with so many other options out there.
I hear your concerns - so I'm also interested in these other similar options you're talking about - help me out with some links!
This is not a test just completed a backroom event for 2nd edition. They are finishing up the editing and have told me that shipping should be starting shortly. I got in on that as it is an established game with new edition and models. Great looking skirmish game in a post-apocalyptic universe. https://blacksitestudio.com/pages/tnt Miniature agnostic, but I have been a supporter of the "Imitation of life" Tribe and bought several gangs that I have printed out from myminifactory.com. Sadly, he just put his monthly tribe on hold this week, but it will return as he is working on a larger gang at the moment.
I also just went in on A Dead Man's Hand second edition (Redux). They started a Kickstarter yesterday as well for multipart plastic horseback models. Small scale skirmish set in the old west. They just released "the Good" expansion which has 13 factions in it, they will be releasing "The bad and the Ugly" next with more factions. https://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/ The buildings are plastic and you can get generic plastic male and female models to make your band as well as them having metal gangs for all 13 of the Good gangs and many of the other gangs available through the website. Card and dice mechanics to keep the games fresh. Each scene(game) comes in 3 acts, with the winner of each act getting benefits to the next act.
Both of those are fairly inexpensive to get into games. Though I went full in on "The Good" and bought extra buildings and such.
This current KS just doesn't seem like my kind of thing. If I buy 3d prints it's from small shops or one man operations, people may argue it's the way of the future or whatever but I don't think serious companies should be going that route.
From what I've seen of the setting i thought it was kind of interesting, but like others here I don't really like the idea of just getting 3D printed miniatures. That just feels somewhat cheap to me.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: For what it's worth, both Reaper and Warmahoards have been doing 3d printed models. They're both pretty "serious"
I've personally seen some of the Warmahoards...They are not all serious. Some bad prints made it through.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt, although I would be printing my own to save a few hundred $$$ compared to buying the printed models. Still, too rich for my blood/ liver/ kidneys that I'd sell to pay for it. I did find some of their sculpts online and printed out an alternate (female) tank hunter, and it came out nicely.
Since rules are free and game is minis-agnostic, I do want to support the artists and designers.
I pledged for the book and stls for 2 warbands. If they don't follow thru delivery on the book, I will have paid $94 for 16 stls. I don't feel that's too much to risk.
What concerns me is that they want backers to add dollars for add-ons and ala carte minis without a mechanism to specify in the pledge.
This screams that they do not really understand what they are getting into, or how complex that kind of ordering and picking will become. Even if minis are fulfilled by Only Games print farm, it's going to be hundreds, if not thousands of unique order pulls. And the customer service issues that that will encompass.
I will add money in the pledge manager, if I want, but not stacking it on in KS. Gonna keep it simple.
ETA, After seeing the stretch goals, I really don't like "unlocking" paid add-ons.
We shouldn't have to hit a $400 pledge level to get them free.
If you go "all in" physical miniatures the price per mini isn't awful - especially as there are quite a few larger minis too - once you also get past the point that it is a large number for that pledge level, of course!
I do wish Only-Games had a better overall reputation though.
Not having a 3D Printer (or the desire to get one/get into that aspect of the hobby) does leave me with limited options for this game though.
Alpharius wrote: If you go "all in" physical miniatures the price per mini isn't awful - especially as there are quite a few larger minis too - once you also get past the point that it is a large number for that pledge level, of course!
I do wish Only-Games had a better overall reputation though.
Not having a 3D Printer (or the desire to get one/get into that aspect of the hobby) does leave me with limited options for this game though.
I have seen many cool original kitbashes in the facebook Trench Crusade group, and I am sure there is a Discord.
And the rules are free to give a test-run.
After the KS, they say the minis will be available on Only Games as well. Not positive for the Stls.
Alpharius wrote: 1 day in and at $830K for a small 'start up' isn't meeting expectations for an strong start?
You guys have me nervous now with miniature quality too, dammit!!!
Oh it's definitely impressive for a Kickstarter don't get me wrong, it's just the way it felt like everybody was talking about it this was going to be the second coming of tabletop Christ. On my end it's probably being tempered somewhat by how well RPG Kickstarters tend to do by comparison.
I'm sure they'll get the miniature quality sorted eventually (if it isn't at the start) and they've been upfront on the page about replacing any defective models for free, I'd just rather wait and not have to deal with that myself. I'm not begrudging anybody who backs now.
Alpharius wrote: 1 day in and at $830K for a small 'start up' isn't meeting expectations for an strong start?
You guys have me nervous now with miniature quality too, dammit!!!
Oh it's definitely impressive for a Kickstarter don't get me wrong, it's just the way it felt like everybody was talking about it this was going to be the second coming of tabletop Christ. On my end it's probably being tempered somewhat by how well RPG Kickstarters tend to do by comparison.
I'm sure they'll get the miniature quality sorted eventually (if it isn't at the start) and they've been upfront on the page about replacing any defective models for free, I'd just rather wait and not have to deal with that myself. I'm not begrudging anybody who backs now.
The 'add money afterwards to choose what minis you want' is probably causing lots of people to only pledge a little up front, as opposed to other kickstarters where someone has to pledge to a certain level to qualify for exclusives.
This screams that they do not really understand what they are getting into, or how complex that kind of ordering and picking will become. Even if minis are fulfilled by Only Games print farm, it's going to be hundreds, if not thousands of unique order pulls.
Exactly, they're all art, no business skill, trying to go with elite prices but corner cutting delivery. Digital only pledges are probably gonna be okay.
With how their mods act on their Discord, banning people on the basis of flimsy and false accusations and treating denial of the action as admissions of guilt as well as banning anyone that chose to speak in defense of the accused, I think Trench Crusade deserves to fail. Insulting and abusing your potential customers is no way to run a business. I will definitely not fund this and have already successfully convinced a few players in my local gaming group to steer clear. Here's hoping it crashes and burns
Iracundus wrote: With how their mods act on their Discord, banning people on the basis of flimsy and false accusations and treating denial of the action as admitting to it, I think Trench Crusade deserves to fail. Insulting and abusing your potential customers is no way to run a business. I will definitely not fund this and have already successfully convinced a few players in my local gaming group to steer clear. Here's hoping it crashes and burns
Well, it looks like it's super successful. So it seems their strategy of immediately purging bad actors was actually the right one!
All I've heard is they are quite ruthless at banning alt righters who come in whining about disrespect to religion, which sounds like the biggest pro so far tbh
This screams that they do not really understand what they are getting into, or how complex that kind of ordering and picking will become. Even if minis are fulfilled by Only Games print farm, it's going to be hundreds, if not thousands of unique order pulls.
Exactly, they're all art, no business skill, trying to go with elite prices but corner cutting delivery. Digital only pledges are probably gonna be okay.
Couldn't have said it better my self. I wish they partnered with a bigger name like Warcradle, Para Bellum or Archon.
Love the premise and the models but a bit put off by the price to be honest. I don't 3D print (and don't want to get into it), and the reputation of Only-Games is making me question whether to buy in at all/just grab the book.
Iv watched this with interest in the last year. It gained a lot of publicity when several wannabe edgelords "left" 40K and tried to get all over Trench Crusade because it "wasn't woke" and were promptly told to sling their hook by the community and their social media mod which gained them even more publicity.
Our locals are all in on the KS. The minis look amazing and there is real passion around the game. My question is what happens after the KS. One amazing KS does not a game make.
However other games have gone down this route (think Moonstone) and that is now available in retail stores.
Iracundus wrote: With how their mods act on their Discord, banning people on the basis of flimsy and false accusations and treating denial of the action as admitting to it, I think Trench Crusade deserves to fail. Insulting and abusing your potential customers is no way to run a business. I will definitely not fund this and have already successfully convinced a few players in my local gaming group to steer clear. Here's hoping it crashes and burns
Well, it looks like it's super successful. So it seems their strategy of immediately purging bad actors was actually the right one!
lord_blackfang wrote:All I've heard is they are quite ruthless at banning alt righters who come in whining about disrespect to religion, which sounds like the biggest pro so far tbh
I've got to say that I am actually happy about the moderation. They have a vision for the game and their universe and they are not going to let some random person derail that vision. The real world and this game universe are 2 distinct spaces that had a similar history that diverged long ago. People are being upset because their current real-life religion isn't being depicted as they see it now, they are not understanding that the game universe has different aspects that affected how the religions have changed because significant events didn't happen or happened completely different to "real life".
For example, in a world where Hitler may not have even survived past infancy, the way Europe developed would be astonishingly different to the way it is now. That would be a major change that events of the last 100 years would cause ripples into modern time. This game has major changes during the Crusades, empires which don't exist today are superpowers and superpowers today can be backwards empires or not exist at all. Some people don't see that change. They can play it how they want in their homes, but they are wanting it changed in the actual lore.
So there you have it folks, you hit this campaign so hard you quite literally jumped our development schedule forward by over a year. I hope you’re happy. We sure are.
On behalf of Tuomas, James and Mike, I want to thank each and every one of you who have supported Trench Crusade, as well as all of those still to come in the twelve days we still have to go. The goal was to make the kind of wargame we wanted to see and make it as amazing as possible and thanks to you all, this is going to happen!
A big shoutout to our Discord community. You guys are GOATs and your support kept us going through development and even now are keeping my sanity intact during these unprecedented events. This goes doubly so for all our Apostles, Missionaries and Wardens - we could never have done this without you.
Which brings me on to my next point.
Folks, we need to talk about Trench Crusade…
I know that sounds dramatic, but hear me out. I’m going off script here.
We’ve shot so far past our goal that Trench Crusade COULD become so much more than both us and you expected.
First of all, regarding comments I’ve seen both here and on other sites, I feel like there have been certain expectations (some I may qualify as unfair) placed on us because of this success. I think it would be good to really lay out who we are, what we set out to do and why we made the choices we did. This isn’t to defend ourselves, we absolutely stand by our choices, but more to help reassure some of you.
From this, we can talk about the future of Trench Crusade and stretch goals. I’ll say it now: We won’t be posting any more stretch goals for now. This level of success is now in the territory of serious money. Trench Crusade was meant to be a fun side project where 3 guys made a cool game alongside other creatives and, with a bit of luck, raised enough cash to keep doing it casually alongside their day jobs.
The level of support you’ve shown is the kind that changes lives. On the horizon is a world where we can not only continue to pay artists and creators every single cent they deserve for their hard work and creativity, but also one where we can have people working on Trench Crusade full time. Seasonal rules, narrative play, solo rules, matched play and of course, more models… it’s all possible. We’re not there yet as this is an incredibly expensive endeavor and a lot of responsibility. You can’t go messing around with people’s careers and lives. It needs to be done carefully, measuredly and with long term sustainability in mind.
These are the sort of questions that the TC crew has in front of them. We need to have a long discussion about where we will go next with the game as, up until now, these matters were relegated to the realm of fantasy. Based on what is decided we may have more Stretch Goals. But be warned, they will be very high to reflect the level of investment they represent.
I’m not yet sure how we’re going to handle this conversation with you all yet. A big article would be easiest but I don’t think that’s as personal a discussion as this should be. Maybe a video or a livestream. We shall see.
This update is already VERY long so I’m going to stop here for now.
Thank you all once again for your support, patience and understanding.
And NOT pumping out more stretch goals is a good sign too - even if it somewhat stifles campaign growth going forward, and they have to 'settle' for only $1M!
Alpharius wrote: And NOT pumping out more stretch goals is a good sign too - even if it somewhat stifles campaign growth going forward, and they have to 'settle' for only $1M!
Yeah, the first step in a kickstarter failing is generally over promising on the stretch goals. Then the company realizes they can't make all the stuff and it just spirals from there.
I'm glad they're looking at this as a game that will be around in the long term, that's definitely the right approach.
The money we're talking about here tho, would easily fund 6 hard plastic faction sprues, that would probably help more than hiring a guy to write GW style season rules
Sure they could afford plastics now but the delay to switch would be huge. Not only would they need to resculpt any models for the material -- they might not have anyone with experience making HIPS kits let alone multipart ones so they'd need to find someone and get on their schedule. Then you've also got the schedule the factory which is usually required a year before you needed it and you'd need to wait until the sculptor(s) you hire get close to being done. The ex-GW guy modiphius has can only sculpt 4-5 multipart kits a year and he's full time as an example of what to expect time wise for that.
Easily could be 2 years to get them delivered. For a new game it's best to actually deliver and get people playing it before investing in something that you need to move thousands of units to make back said investment.
2 years fro a new game from Kickstarter, as in the platform to found the future work and not pay for the previous one, to release isn't that long (specially if the company is planning for the game to be still around after 2 years, this isn't GW were after 3 years the game gets replaced with something new)
in addition there are now more companies available doing HIPS now so it is much easier than it used to be (specially as they already have the multi part renders)
and as there are 3D prints anyway it is not like there is nothing from end of KS to that at all
there need to be physical models at one point, and pure 3D printed isn't suitable for the mass market to get models on the shelf
so HIPS is the next logical step and depending on how they handle the money from the KS (any physical product can still mess up the margin and there is less left to invest than expected)
lord_blackfang wrote: Anyone know why the downgrade from previous KS's Siocast to 3d prints?
SioCast (the company) are a nightmare to deal with -
Spoiler:
SioCast delays
In our last update, we mentioned that SioCast had delayed a large order of thermoplastic for Zealot Miniatures (our caster) to continue casting the many thousands of miniatures required for Trench Crusade. Zealot placed this order almost THREE MONTHS AGO now, but they are still waiting for SioCast to send it. This is most vexing and probably very disappointing for you to hear – it certainly is for us! We can only apologise profusely for the long delay caused by them. It is totally out of our hands (and our caster’s) which is so frustrating.
SioCast have been pretty vague and disappointing in their replies, and we have often had to wait for responses to multiple emails, with excuses ranging from staff vacations to disruptions in SioCast’s operations (apparently due to “changes in their purchasing and logistics department”). They assure us that they have resolved these matters now.
SioCast’s CEO emailed Zealot last night to apologise for the delays and he said that the material will be shipped out today (19th October). SioCast are in Spain, Zealot are in the UK, so hopefully this will take no more than a week. Let us hope that this time, the shipment actually arrives (a previous shipment was apparently returned at customs) and there are no customs delays.
This all sadly amounts to a further extension to the timeframe, I am extremely sorry to say. We are extremely frustrated by SioCast’s poor customer service and can only apologise – once again – for yet another delay. If we could source the thermoplastic from elsewhere, we would, but it is a special formula devised by SioCast to work specifically with their machines. This means we have no choice but to order material from them – there is simply nowhere else to get it.
so also the other KS models were done by 3rd party service and those had problems getting enough raw material for the models because their supplier had problems to get enough raw material to make that material
that is less of SioCast being a nightmare but rather the usual supply chain issues if there is just one supplier for the proprietary materials
and as almost every smaller company now is replacing their metal models with something different, with only few risking to go the route of developing their own resin casting process, my guess is that SioCast simply faces higher demand than expected
yet the same problem can happen with 3D printing if the demand of a certain grade quality is higher than expected because of a larger order of models
and not like these resins are all equal/identical so replacing them to fulfil orders can lead to quality issues instead of delays
Iracundus wrote: With how their mods act on their Discord, banning people on the basis of flimsy and false accusations and treating denial of the action as admissions of guilt as well as banning anyone that chose to speak in defense of the accused, I think Trench Crusade deserves to fail. Insulting and abusing your potential customers is no way to run a business. I will definitely not fund this and have already successfully convinced a few players in my local gaming group to steer clear. Here's hoping it crashes and burns
I'm just going to say two things here:
1. The game has a good chance of not selling, I'll concede to that. What you said will not be any reason.
2. The server banned them for the EXACT same reason why GW had to stop doing Regimental Standard, as well as almost doing a kids Warhammer singalong audiobook where David Tennant narrates how Guilliman and Archaon do a musical number with the entire cast of the Jackson Middle-Earth films about WHY extremism is bad(hint: in GW's case, it had to do with what happened at a European gameshop and an alt-right gamer).
I swear I am about go mad with this alt-right Occam's Razor nonsense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like to admit, it's pretty cool. Designs are very top notch.
Still a shame the models may end up as painting centerpieces though.
Iracundus wrote: With how their mods act on their Discord, banning people on the basis of flimsy and false accusations and treating denial of the action as admissions of guilt as well as banning anyone that chose to speak in defense of the accused, I think Trench Crusade deserves to fail. Insulting and abusing your potential customers is no way to run a business. I will definitely not fund this and have already successfully convinced a few players in my local gaming group to steer clear. Here's hoping it crashes and burns
lord_blackfang wrote:The money we're talking about here tho, would easily fund 6 hard plastic faction sprues, that would probably help more than hiring a guy to write GW style season rules
There are some pretty compelling reasons for a project like this not to go the route of plastics, though. Molds are a significant financial investment, it takes months to go from design to production, plastics are much more limiting about geometry than resin prints, and maybe most importantly the design pipeline for multipart plastics is a lot more complicated than for resin prints, where you can go straight from digital modeling software to a slicer and have a prototype out within hours.
From a consumer perspective, I like that prints almost always have fewer sub-assemblies, and support nubs are less visible and easier to mitigate than mold lines or seams between parts. Privateer Press had issues with their switch to printed models, but they're learning, and going forwards I think we're going to see more companies use 3D printing as their production method and skip resin casts or plastic sprues altogether.
Plastic-vs-prints aside, it's bizarre how some posts in this thread are talking like the game is for 3D printer enthusiasts only. They're offering files for those with printers, physical prints for those without, a permissive license for third parties to design minis for the game, and carte blanche to players to kitbash their own models. It's not a mass battle game, it's a skirmish game of 5-10 models a side; anyone who doesn't have a printer and doesn't want to buy the 'official' models can kitbash 40K, AOS, and historical parts and have a warband knocked out in an afternoon.
Since when do people need the official allowance of someone else to kitbash models if they don't like the originals?
Point is, physical models are hard to get if you are not a printer, stores won't stock it unless they also have a printing service and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game
With some of the names involved in this (loved Tuomas's work in Mordheim and WHFB!) and some super interesting/grizzly miniature concepts, think this one is definitely worth a punt.
I can't remember the last time I saw such a buzz on social media about a new game & miniature line - it's been building over the last 6-12 months, a lot of GW-tertiary bloggers and painters posting about it and big interest - this is why it has hit the million mark so quickly I think. Good to see they are not trying to over-stretch in terms of deliverables & think there are enough industry regulars here to be able to deliver it.
kodos wrote: Since when do people need the official allowance of someone else to kitbash models if they don't like the originals?
There are still FLGS's that won't let you use 3D printed models and/or things they can't stock themselves. There's one of them local-ish to me and there's some sulking on their (unofficial) Discord about how/if they can play Trench Crusade.
I think that is a minority though? I have never, ever had that problem in any FLGS I have played in (and have lived in various spots around the country over the past 20 years).
Unless someone is absolutely taking the piss and not contributing anything to the store they are playing in (even then there is usually some sort of membership/table hire charge, they need to buy paints etc.)
Another big differentiation is at least in the UK a lot of gaming is still club-based, which would generally have very limited restrictions.
kodos wrote: and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game
Given that it's an outgrowth of the Inq28 and 28 Mag communities, dedicated to kitbashing for theme rather than soullessly assembling kits into tournament min-maxing, that doesn't really sound like a problem.
I mean, there are official minis, plus they're giving third-parties explicit permission to make models for it, and the theme/style offers lots of opportunity to kitbash your own- the barrier to entry is pretty low.
But this ignores thst the majority of pledges for the KS are for physical warbands
So if the physical models are the thing people are going for, and causes most interest, I would say that it left tha niche of kitbashing already and a better supply of physical models is the next step to keep the game going
kodos wrote: But this ignores thst the majority of pledges for the KS are for physical warbands
So if the physical models are the thing people are going for, and causes most interest, I would say that it left tha niche of kitbashing already and a better supply of physical models is the next step to keep the game going
As they've said in their updates, the creators were surprised by how well they're doing, and clearly weren't expecting the physical models to be such a draw. With that new knowledge, presumably they will take a look into bolstering that side of the game.
Their Reddit is awash with people kitbashing stuff, not all of it stuff from the official rules so far. sometimes it's just stuff that they feel fits the aesthetic.
kodos wrote: and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game
I mean, there are official minis, plus they're giving third-parties explicit permission to make models for it, and the theme/style offers lots of opportunity to kitbash your own- the barrier to entry is pretty low.
That's a pretty great move from the creators and shows that they just want the game to be enjoyed, that kind of attitude probably explains a big part of the runaway success it's getting.
kodos wrote: and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game
I mean, there are official minis, plus they're giving third-parties explicit permission to make models for it, and the theme/style offers lots of opportunity to kitbash your own- the barrier to entry is pretty low.
That's a pretty great move from the creators and shows that they just want the game to be enjoyed, that kind of attitude probably explains a big part of the runaway success it's getting.
Also, if this continues to grow and they see fan favorite designers, they might be able to make them "Official". Right now they don't have to pay them, so it lets them get the game more off the ground and established before growing.
A Kickstarter update today talks more about their licensing policy:
Greetings Crusaders!
Today we talk about something very important to us: third party content for Trench Crusade.
As we’ve said on the main page, third party minis, kitbashes and conversions will always be welcome on a Trench Crusade table. Historically, they are what allowed the game to get its start and grow whilst we worked on the official range. We see no reason for this to change.
However, with the game officially launching and especially considering its success, we are going to have to steward our IP appropriately. Now, and I’m going to be very open on the matter, we do not intend to come across as heavy handed but we do need to lay some ground rules. I’m sure you can all imagine why.
This doesn’t mean that, like with a lot of other elements that are a fundamental part of this project’s DNA, we can’t think outside of the box and approach it in a manner that is honest, constructive, and community focused.
That’s why, inspired by the TTRPG scene and especially games like MÖRK BORG and Mothership, we’re very happy to announce the upcoming Third Party License for Trench Crusade!
The Trench Crusade TPL
Anyone can make content for Trench Crusade. And we’re not just talking miniatures here but scenarios, campaigns, stories, art, music, whatever you like! We honestly can’t wait to see what you come up with!
If you intend to distribute this content for free then our only request is that you don’t include any of our official material, but we will be releasing a free content pack with basic assets that you can use.
If you would like to monetise your creations, it gets a little more complicated but that’s fine too! There will be 3 “levels” for this:
Free - Obviously we don’t own the concept of a weird WW1 setting with religious undertones and we’re not going to pretend that we do. You are free to make whatever you like. However, please do not use our name or any official material.
Compatible with Trench Crusade - You can submit your project to us in order to get permission to advertise it as “compatible with Trench Crusade”. This check is only to verify that the project meets our community guidelines and standards. You owe us nothing and the use of certain official material can be requested.
Licensing/Co-publishing - Officially licensing the TC universe. We obviously get a cut at this point but the product is “official” and we can also help you with development, distribution, etc.
This is a rough outline of what we’ll be putting into place and details may vary depending on each situation. We’ll have more precise info early next year when we officially roll this out. We also want this time to act as a grace period for the creators that already have TC content up for sale to decide what they’d like to do.
lord_blackfang wrote: Anyone know why the downgrade from previous KS's Siocast to 3d prints?
SioCast (the company) are a nightmare to deal with -
Spoiler:
SioCast delays
In our last update, we mentioned that SioCast had delayed a large order of thermoplastic for Zealot Miniatures (our caster) to continue casting the many thousands of miniatures required for Trench Crusade. Zealot placed this order almost THREE MONTHS AGO now, but they are still waiting for SioCast to send it. This is most vexing and probably very disappointing for you to hear – it certainly is for us! We can only apologise profusely for the long delay caused by them. It is totally out of our hands (and our caster’s) which is so frustrating.
SioCast have been pretty vague and disappointing in their replies, and we have often had to wait for responses to multiple emails, with excuses ranging from staff vacations to disruptions in SioCast’s operations (apparently due to “changes in their purchasing and logistics department”). They assure us that they have resolved these matters now.
SioCast’s CEO emailed Zealot last night to apologise for the delays and he said that the material will be shipped out today (19th October). SioCast are in Spain, Zealot are in the UK, so hopefully this will take no more than a week. Let us hope that this time, the shipment actually arrives (a previous shipment was apparently returned at customs) and there are no customs delays.
This all sadly amounts to a further extension to the timeframe, I am extremely sorry to say. We are extremely frustrated by SioCast’s poor customer service and can only apologise – once again – for yet another delay. If we could source the thermoplastic from elsewhere, we would, but it is a special formula devised by SioCast to work specifically with their machines. This means we have no choice but to order material from them – there is simply nowhere else to get it.
(From their last KS)
Having previously had Zealot just... stop communicating midway through a project, the irony is strong with this one.
Have to say some of the concept art, aside from being Kingdom Death-level disturbing in places (minus the cheesecake!) is absolutely stupendous.
The artists they have involved: John Blanche, Dave Gallagher, Paul Bonner (Some old GW heavyweights) plus the guy who wrote Mordheim and WHFB 6th edition (my favourite edition!) I was never going to resist this one.
Does anyone know if there is any plan for retail sales? (I know they have said they will have an online store, but it's always good to support a local FLGS if you can).
I'm going to look into sculpting some terrain for this, I've never seen a company handing out this much of an olive branch to the third party community before.
There's so much about the setting which can be developed, a whole altered Earth to explore, potential for faction-specific terrain and demonic ruins as well as huge setpieces like the gate of martyrs and iron wall which could form a whole gaming table.
I don't see Kingdom Death on the shelves anywhere either!
That's likely because they are still fulfilling their Kickstarters. At least last I checked they were still working through them whilst doing standard production to sell direct from their site to help keep their lights on and the company going.
I don't think they've the production capacity to go into retail wholesale supply. They might have enough to do a one-off, but not regular supply alongside everything else they need to run.
Alpharius wrote: Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.
I don't see Kingdom Death on the shelves anywhere either!
They'll be an online store, of course, and many 3rd party offerings too - but I imagine this will all be online only as well.
Does anyone have any sources for trench terrain that will work for the game too?
I want to get a start on a table...
Epicbasing.com sells prints and digital files including a trench warfare set that I picked up. Has bomb blasts, razor wire, spikes, sandbags and boards for trench floors.
the cannon/tractor was from Dust, I just added stuff to it to make a possible table objective for a game.
I think Dust had some pillbox terrain pieces that should also work for this. Some of their models could easily be converted or just painted to be more grimdark.
Quite shocked by how large the online community already is for this game, with the FB group having about 28,000 members. And some of the conversions and kitbashing going on is remarkable, I wonder if it has been well timed with people that miss this being such a central component of GW games these days.
My own views on the system are somewhat dimmer, I find it schizophrenic in that it tries to marry very slick modern mechanics with archaic army building with fixed factions, fixed stats, fixed abilities, but then an overcrowded wargear section there isn't really design space for, so every item does the same thing mechanically. It's like Pirinen's take on writing 30 AoS spells that all do D3 mortal wounds with slight variations in range, accuracy, target type etc.
If 1 million was already a number we considered fanciful, then 2 million is just mind blowing. We sincerely never thought we’d get this far…
Thank you all again for everything. We will make Trench Crusade into the game you all want and can play for years to come.
Of course, you’ve all read my words of thanks more than enough so I’m going to turn the proverbial mic over to the games creators:
Tuomas
I have no words to convey both my gratitude and excitement for the support the community has given to us. We will strive to be worthy of the trust you have placed on us.
First, we want to fulfil the Kickstarter until each and every one of you has everything you pledged for. This is our sole focus for the immediate future.
But afterwards? Your support has ensured that in the future we can look at things like the Hebrew Knights, the Church of Metamorphosis, the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth Hussars, the remnants of the Varangian Guard, the horrors of the Path of the Beast, and much, much more. Let us walk this path together.
Mike
Thank you all for believing in our weird little game. Your support means the world to me and i look forward to dreaming up freakish weirdos for you all in the years to come!
James
Well, mind suitably blown, I am finding it hard to put my gratitude into words… To all you valiant pilgrims (and despicable heretics), I bestow upon you the biggest, soppiest, most heartfelt virtual hug I can summon! Because of your ducats, I can continue sculpting those freakish weirdos that keep falling out of Mike’s brain and into his sketchbook. Thanks so much you bloody amazing people.
Are there good 'hard plastic' WWI miniatures available that are closer the the 32mm this game looks to be aiming for (at least in terms of 'normal' humans) vs. 28mm?
Alpharius wrote: Are there good 'hard plastic' WWI miniatures available that are closer the the 32mm this game looks to be aiming for (at least in terms of 'normal' humans) vs. 28mm?
Wargames Atlantic's WW1 range is pretty swell and they even have a weird war upgrade sprue.
TC is all digital so can be printed to match, anyway.
Alpharius wrote: Are there good 'hard plastic' WWI miniatures available that are closer the the 32mm this game looks to be aiming for (at least in terms of 'normal' humans) vs. 28mm?
Wargames Atlantic's WW1 range is pretty swell and they even have a weird war upgrade sprue.
TC is all digital so can be printed to match, anyway.
i've seen a number of people on their reddit kitbashing the WGA Great War plastics with the WGA barons war Plastics. often just as simple as sticking some medieval great helms on the WW1 troops to make rifle infantry, and WW1 gasmask heads onto the Barons war kits to make armored melee infantry. though most are far more creative. WGA's lines being so easy to kitbash together, and having so many good aesthetic options, seem to have made them a popular choice.
It's looking like this will likely hit 3 million before it ends. I just backed it for the rulebook and 1 physical warband. The aesthetics are right up my alley. I have doubts about actually getting around to participating in a campaign, but the models will surely be a joy to work on.
They haven't over promised despite hitting such a high mark. The models stl are done and are printed on demand by Only Games, the dice are made by another company. The only thing they need to worry about is designing the rulebook and getting it printed and shipped out, which they given themselves about 6 months to do.
So very obtainable goals, especially with the experience and talent already behind this.
Actually I'd be worried about Only Games quality control. The Rulebook and most of the other aspects are likely pretty solid and the STLs should be totally safe once delivered. OG and quality control/production pace is a risk (esp since 3D printing doesn't scale up for volume as well as casting can). But we'll have to wait and see on that front.
Oh I bet. The problem is the creators being so stingy they want you to order specialist models a la carte, leading to 8000 orders that will all need to be hand picked.
Tuomas and crew have their names big and bold on this endeavor. I think they are well prepared for it especially with the funds they received compared to what they thought was coming. They have not over promised, and I think at the first sign that OG are having difficulties, they will reach out to make other partners to complete the project. I see no reason for the Doom and Gloom (beside the spirit of their universe). While I did not back the game, I have been flooded with posts from the Facebook group with all the pretty conversions and displays. This is a real labor of love. Not sure if it will be a rival for 40K, but it could easily be a contender for some of the Warcry/Kill Team money.
Hah, no. It's had an amazing KS campaign, but KS things don't tend to draw big retail money. And what even is retail for a game you need to mail order prints for?
If they actually commit to hard plastic, they might maintain a meaningful physical presence. Nothing that could compare to anything GW's on any scale. A fraction of Atlantic's or Achon's or whichever manufacturer's total sales. Possibly as big a Frostgrave. Until then, they're still on the artsy "hashtag 28" fringes, with Turnip, Forbidden Psalm, etc. albeit with a much, much bigger initial surge. I'd be very interested to know where this came from, who is buying TC that wasn't buying those games? There can't be that many Mordheim-exclusive grognards left, surely.
I mean there's as many as there are Battletech Grognards as their KS's also funded into the millions and basically brought Battletech out of a, what, 20 year general slump of "its there but not mainstream".
Of course a big part of that was them already tooling up for plastics which makes it a lot easier to get stock on shelves and shifting.
Trench Crusade isn't at that stage yet, but 3 million is enough to start considering looking at plastics seriously. Perhaps another KS in the future, so long as this one does well, to help tool up for plastics. Or perhaps they'll just go for their own 3D printfarm to take that in-house in the future. There's a lot of avenues they can take.
My concern is more just focused on OnlyGames due to experiences/what I've heard from others. Who knows perhaps this is OG's turning point where they also really pull out all the stops and do great.
There are over 20 Mordheim exclusive grognards at my LGS alone that run a league regularly every few months. This doing so well is not surprising.
Gamers are hungry for another Mordheim and GW seems determined to never bring it back.
I am amazed and happy with the kickstarter results.Now the creatives behind this literally have the backing to work on this setting, the art, and the rules for a good long time before they even have to consider changing for profit.
As far as plastics go, I think it's not worth it.
If you took one look at the Facebook group and the diversity of conversions, the results can't be condensed easily into minis for mass production without also diluting and homogenizing the setting drastically.
I think 3D prints and Stls are the way to go forward.
Maybe boutique resin prints as well.
With the stls I will receive, I can't forsee a reason to print them more than maybe 3 times each. Even the grunts have unique looks that become weird when cloned.
Possibly commissioning Wargames Atlantic or such to do weapon & bits sprues could be a good approach.
But I can't see the ongoing demand for a specific faction of models being high enough to justify the plastics design, mold production and distribution costs.
Especially when the current scale of the game requires so few actual minis.
A things im quite taken with TC (i backed the KS) is it very modern approach to wargaming and an acknowledgement of where the gaming landscape right now
1. Free rules and resources (sure an app will come)
2. Official models available as physical models AND STLs for home 3d printing
3. Fully embracing 3rd party model makers/printers with option to officially be adopted by the game.
4. Full model agnostic so you can buy/print/kitbash as you want
5. A very interesting lore
If TC is a big success it might break the mold for the better. GW lags far behind in its approach. Other games producers are well ahead of them in terms of approach if not scale. Will be an interesting time for wargaming if TC takes off.
Overread wrote: I mean there's as many as there are Battletech Grognards as their KS's also funded into the millions and basically brought Battletech out of a, what, 20 year general slump of "its there but not mainstream".
I feel what brought BT out of a 20 year slump was easily accessible retail product with miniatures inside, something TC is explicitly not offering.
Overread wrote: I mean there's as many as there are Battletech Grognards as their KS's also funded into the millions and basically brought Battletech out of a, what, 20 year general slump of "its there but not mainstream".
I feel what brought BT out of a 20 year slump was easily accessible retail product with miniatures inside, something TC is explicitly not offering.
I mean that happened because of the kickstarter successes.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'd be very interested to know where this came from, who is buying TC that wasn't buying those games? There can't be that many Mordheim-exclusive grognards left, surely.
Lots of people that saw the insanely cool art sprinkled all over the internet, and passed it on to friends, to friends, to friends. Trench Crusade looks like nothing else (well, maybe a touch of Blasphemous) out there. To me, it seems that it's the world and atmosphere that's drawing people more than the game or models.
I think I'm personally almost looking forward to sniffing and reading the rulebook more than anything else.
lord_blackfang wrote: Oh I bet. The problem is the creators being so stingy they want you to order specialist models a la carte, leading to 8000 orders that will all need to be hand picked.
Stingy?
Or being sensible enough to not promise the Earth - cursed, or otherwise - in every pledge?
I'm a little confused by the 'stingy'. They offer the option to select warband and/or faction bundles or single models.
It certainly would have kept things easier for them to have only offered the bundles, but it would also have made pledging less attractive to those not wanting to buy the whole bundle.
I went in rather large for me on this one; all the stls and quite a few physical extras. It's been a long time since a game has excited me as much as this one has. I look forward to seeing what the ks success opens up for its future.
I think the biggest surprise is that this kind of almost grew from nothing. Years of slow grind almost in the background and then suddenly BOOM $3.3 million in one massive kickstarter.
Which is the kind of gamer numbers for something totally new that we haven't seen for a very long time in KS (possibly pre-pandemic ?) Again for a totally new game KS with a new franchise that isn't linked to anything or a firm that has done dozens before.
EDIT: weirdly enough, the link doesnt work when I copypaste it from my browser.. How does this Google Translate work, anyway?
lets see if a copypaste works better..
The game designed by a Finn collected more than three million dollars in crowdfunding
Jussi Ahlroth HS13.11. 21:11
Games |The game, designed by the successful game designer Tuomas Pirinen, collected massive crowdfunding on Kickstarter in two weeks.
The Trench Crusade miniatures game takes place in World War I trench warfare involving demons. The miniatures are painted by Stéphane Nguyen Van Gioi and Martin Grandbarbe. Photo : Loic Muzy
Tuomas Pirinen is an internationally successful Finnish game designer.
The Trench Crusade miniature game designed by Pirinen raised more than 3 million dollars on Kickstarter.
The game is set in the trenches of the First World War and contains religious themes.
Trench Crusade has been praised for supporting diversity and removing racists from forums.
How do you make over three million dollars from customers before they even get the product they bought?
Although by making a religion-themed miniatures game about fighting the devils of hell in the trenches of World War I.
This is how Tuomas Pirinen could answer . He is one of Finland's most internationally successful game designers, with a career spanning over thirty years at companies such as Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA, Remedy, Nintendo and Capcom. Now he is a senior director of game design at Playstation.
However, Trench Crusade, which he designed and produced more than three million, is not a console game. It is the own project of Pirinen and a few other respected long-time creators in the field. For example, the artist of the Diablo game series, Michael Franchina, is included .
"We have made a career working for large companies. This was a crazy way to waste time and money.”
The millions came from the Kickstarter crowdfunding service where the game was released. Through it, those who wish can commit to buying the game. There are different versions with different prices. The campaign generated $3,331,000 (approx. EUR 3,152,000) in two weeks. It is probably a record set by a Finn in crowdfunding.
"It went fabulously well. The useless Finnish feigned humility is a bit false. I hope that this would encourage Finnish game designers and other creators in the creative industry. It is possible to succeed."
Demonic miniatures from Trench Crusade. The miniatures are painted by Stéphane Nguyen Van Gioi and Martin Grandbarbe. Photo : Loic Muzy
Trench Crusade is a miniatures game. The game includes rules, miniatures, environment building elements and dice.
The player has an army of small plastic and resin miniatures to fight against another player's army. In military games, the most famous of which is the sci-fi war game Warhammer 40,000 , there must be hundreds of miniatures at best. They all have to be bought and painted.
"It's a bit like Band of Brothers, where a band of soldiers goes through the war."
Trench Crusade is lighter. "With six miniatures, you can start the game quickly and with little effort."
The name of the game means trench crusade. The battlefield is the trenches of the First World War. The parties to the war are different nations and religious groups, as well as demons from hell. They were released 800 years earlier, at the time of the Crusades. Since then, there has been a war between heaven and hell.
The player guides his troops through events that unfold according to the story.
"It's a bit like Band of Brothers , where a band of soldiers goes through the war."
There are many sides to the hobby of miniature games .
"Someone is interested in reading the background story of books, someone collects and paints miniatures, someone likes artists and buys game books as art books, someone plays racing, someone else as a role-playing cooperative game."
Kickstarter's success is all the more special because players would have had to buy nothing. The rules of the game have already been published for free and the game can be played with any miniatures.
This goes against the general practice of the industry. According to the rules, the games of the market leader Games Workshop must be played with the miniatures produced by it.
"It is a listed company that accounts for shareholders. I don't want to moralize it.”
Games Workshop is Pirise's former employer, for whom he made, among other things, the popular game Mordheim .
With the success of the crowdfunding, Trench Crusade grows bigger. According to Pirinen, the popularity has attracted the interest of investors. Other players in the industry have also announced their willingness to expand the world of the game.
Trench Crusade game art. Photo : Mike Franchina
Unlike many miniatures games, in Trench Crusade a player needs less than ten miniatures. The miniatures are painted by Stéphane Nguyen Van Gioi and Martin Grandbarbe. Photo : Loic Muzy
The game takes place in a version of the real world. It's rare. Pirinen thinks one of the reasons is the fear of dealing with religion. Especially in the United States, it is a sensitive topic. A big game company probably wouldn't have published such a game.
"It is impossible to separate cultural heritage from Christianity in the West. We see it as an asset.”
Pirinen tells the background story of the game, which explores the interaction of faith with war, what a world and war would look like in an endless war. Of course, you can play the game without thinking about such things any more.
There is a very small but very vocal racist wing in the Warhammer 40,000 fan community. Early on, they made videos declaring the Trench Crusade a failure. According to Pirinen, they were angry, for example, that Ethiopia is presented as an equal partner of Western countries.
The Trench Crusade team has received praise for systematically and quickly throwing racists out of the game's forums.
"We are proud that the community has all kinds of people with different identity paths, different beliefs, nationalities. Everyone should be able to be part of the community without fear of harassment."
Miniature gaming is a big hobby and also a business in the world. It could go to the next level with the release of the Warhammer 40,000 TV series currently being made by Hollywood star Henry Cavill for Amazon Prime. Cavill is an active miniatures game enthusiast.
Has Pirinen introduced the game to Cavill?
"Not yet. We do have mutual acquaintances, so maybe at some point. We don't want to push you, Cavill is a genuine enthusiast."
Overread wrote: I think the biggest surprise is that this kind of almost grew from nothing. Years of slow grind almost in the background and then suddenly BOOM $3.3 million in one massive kickstarter.
Which is the kind of gamer numbers for something totally new that we haven't seen for a very long time in KS (possibly pre-pandemic ?) Again for a totally new game KS with a new franchise that isn't linked to anything or a firm that has done dozens before.
I wouldn't really say "almost nothing" in the background. There's been a fairly large online community requesting official models for a good while now and it's garnered enough attention pre-Kickstarter that the devs for Helldivers 2 promoted the game on their Twitter and are in talks to potentially do a Trench Crusade crossover event.
The first Kickstarter showed how many people were interested in the game setting.
With more factions and choices along with being-able to build forces from scratch.
Also seeing how much background is released for the game setting and more with people making thier own factions up it makes for a game that is easy to buy into.
I find it funny that the Finn article did not mention GW as one of Toumas's work places and the fact he did Mordheim.
manic _miner wrote: I find it funny that the Finn article did not mention GW as one of Toumas's work places and the fact he did Mordheim.
Doubly so because Toumas is clearly imitating nuGW writing style (long winded, overexplained legalese, fascinating mismanagement of USRs), but that should make modern GW players feel right at home.
I'm beginning to think the chief market for TC are GW orbiters waiting for the next specialist game. It pulled way, way more money than the blanchitsu/28 scene alone could manage.
I asked in the KS comments while it was still running and someone confirmed they are hoping to eventually bring the game to retail.
So those of us who want to support a local store while playing there will have that option.
It's been a while since I've seen such a level of excitement and a community grabbing a game with both hands. I don't know if it is the evocative setting, the ex-GW bigwigs (artists & creators), or the inclusive/3d print & alternative-mini friendly approach? Or all of the above.
Well being long standing has a big help; and doing physical and STL sales is a huge leg up because a lot of people still don't own a 3D printer (And even if they do there's benefit in paying someone else ofr a completed model and not having to fiddle with the machine)
Physical game sales are always going to beat digital ones.
I think that anyone playing in a local store would have bought different sets of miniatures from them to kitbash the figures for the game.
You never know you might get some shops start to sell single sprues so that people can get started quickly if they are on a budget.
It can only be a win for shops to have people playing this game as with others to help bring people into the shop.Everyone needs glue,paint and basing materials.Then terrain too.
It would be great to see the miniatures get a plastic release down the road.But i am not sure if the sales would cover the costs of doing it.You only need say seven or so of the normal basic trooper types.Not large forces or even just thirty of them,yet that is.
Physical game sales are always going to beat digital ones.
Being able to run a demo and then point a interested player to a box on the shelf in a FLGS is the best way to grow a game and a community for it. 100%
What I've found interesting is that there seem to be a lot of people in their socials saying that this is their first experience with tabletop gaming. Maybe they reached a lot of the ttrpg crowd.
Irdiumstern wrote:What I've found interesting is that there seem to be a lot of people in their socials saying that this is their first experience with tabletop gaming. Maybe they reached a lot of the ttrpg crowd.
That is interesting; I was mainly expecting it to be attracting 40k and ex-40k players given the overlapping themes, and the fact that I was precisely expecting a comparatively unknown game to mainly reach people already in the hobby. But I guess it got some good coverage outside of it then, that's great actually.
manic _miner wrote: I find it funny that the Finn article did not mention GW as one of Toumas's work places and the fact he did Mordheim.
They did, they just misspelled his name in that sentence it seems?
Games Workshop is Pirise's former employer, for whom he made, among other things, the popular game Mordheim .
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JWBS wrote: Franchina & Pirinen are old hands in the industry, crowdfunding + name recognition have combined wonderfully for them here.
That wouldn't really track with the amount of folks who say it's their first venture into the genre. Their names don't account for much outside of grognard circles, unless Pirinen's experience in the video game industry counts.
I've also heard some instances of people stumbling into TC with no prior wargaming experience or knowledge. Maybe there's some high tier viral marketing going on? Or else grimdark anti-christianity is somehow resonating with normies significantly more than any other gaming theme ever.
JWBS wrote: Franchina & Pirinen are old hands in the industry, crowdfunding + name recognition have combined wonderfully for them here.
That wouldn't really track with the amount of folks who say it's their first venture into the genre. Their names don't account for much outside of grognard circles, unless Pirinen's experience in the video game industry counts.
The product is also really good, it's that classic GW art style that GW seem incapable or unwilling to ship these days.
The Black Grail faction brings to mind a type of look/artstyle that I wish Nurgle's stuff actually had. But GW has steered Nurgle into a sillier direction over time with the sloppity bilepiper and stuff. I think the toughest thing i'm dealing with in regards to Trench Crusade is actually committing to a faction. Glad I don't have to actually decide until later next week with the pledge manager.
A friend of mine that enjoys wargames to an extent but is hard to get exctied about them was really enthusiastic about the project when I showed it to them. Something about the aesthetic really speaks to people, I imagine it's the twisted and blasphemous take on the typical western church art, much like Dark Souls series?
I like the look and feel of this, but I know I wouldn't be able to find players to play with or hobby time for it outside of the games I already dick around with. Sadly, I'm passing for now, but hoping it gets big and successful over many years.
That saaaaaid...
I remember a number of GW conspiracy theorists who tied the announcement of The Old World to some kind of rank-and-flank Mantic game/KS that had been gathering steam at the exact same time. The sicko freak in me hopes that the same fictional GW agitprop division is watching the success of Trench Crusade and decides to tease a Mordheim rerelease.
Angronsrosycheeks wrote: A friend of mine that enjoys wargames to an extent but is hard to get exctied about them was really enthusiastic about the project when I showed it to them. Something about the aesthetic really speaks to people, I imagine it's the twisted and blasphemous take on the typical western church art, much like Dark Souls series?
You may be on to something there with the Dark Souls aesthetic theory!
Angronsrosycheeks wrote: A friend of mine that enjoys wargames to an extent but is hard to get exctied about them was really enthusiastic about the project when I showed it to them. Something about the aesthetic really speaks to people, I imagine it's the twisted and blasphemous take on the typical western church art, much like Dark Souls series?
You may be on to something there with the Dark Souls aesthetic theory!
Yeah, a bunch of my video game friends have been hearing about it and asking me and they've mentioned it's got that Dark Souls look.
As I mentioned above, the Helldivers 2 devs have been pushing people towards it on their personal social media, so there's definitely exposure to non-wargamers by various outlets.
lord_blackfang wrote: I've also heard some instances of people stumbling into TC with no prior wargaming experience or knowledge. Maybe there's some high tier viral marketing going on?
You can probably find people who stumbled upon a project in any decently sized kickstarter.
I wouldn't be looking for some grand scheme behind the success of TC, when a set of happy coincidences and a previously underserved market are more likely.
One reason KS has maintained itself as a market leader in its own niche it made is that it does have the power of being around long enough that it has some impact on its own just being on KS as opposed to a number of other similar sites. People take KS more "seriously" they pay attention to them when the ads appear; and there's more chance people have a KS account or know someone who does to remove some of the barrier to entry*.
*it sounds silly but yes just being registered on a site can be barrier to some not wanting to just signup. It's why webstores have started doing guest accounts where you can just buy something with registering first and then registering after.
Given that the portrayal of christianity in the setting is not one that is generally positive and is only viewed as acceptable in the context of being less bad than the alternative?
chaos0xomega wrote: Given that the portrayal of christianity in the setting is not one that is generally positive and is only viewed as acceptable in the context of being less bad than the alternative?
And not even consistently less bad, given one of the Jesuses voluntarily defected to Hell's side, and you've got non-Christian human factions that seem somewhat less awful (in that they don't appear to be factory farming Jesuses to feed their soldiers).
chaos0xomega wrote: Given that the portrayal of christianity in the setting is not one that is generally positive and is only viewed as acceptable in the context of being less bad than the alternative?
the setting and art is similar to what we got with early 40k and why it appeals to people
the over the top late gothic crusader art style, were "knight" fight against the real evil and are the only hope
you have that dark dystopia were there is no state order but religious believe and everyone is just doing what is necessary to survive
those settings always get a lot of hype, but hardly ever get good games behind it (looking at Hellgate London)
and a lot of Mangas/Animes go with the same theme as well, simply because the "religion" being "real" is was gets peoples attention
doesn't matter if reality is that god actually exists, it being magic or some scientific explanation (midichlorians)
it is always the possibility of peoples believes being real gets the attention.
bei it 40k, Star Wars, or now Trench Crusade, the more (christian) religious a society is the more popular religious fantasy settings with a similar theme are (and how Jedi are described as religious orders who fight with swords against evil in the first part, you again get the knightly orders/crusaders theme)
I am an atheist and wish religions all the worst IRL and I still enjoy playing religious fanatics in my games - Sororitas in 40k, Protectorate in WM
The problem is that in modern wargaming there are a lot of cool settings and more excellent minis that I could paint in my life. It's excellent rules that are in short supply, so these are the primary factor for my decisions on what to buy/play. TC falls woefully short here (as most wargames do).
Definitely think it has captured the moment of Dark Souls-esque design, or Kingdom Death (which was also insanely popular) minus the cheesecake.
Also I don't think it's 'pro' anything, in the sense that they have made a setting so Grimdark that it makes 40k look like a Butlins holiday camp by comparison. If you think this seems like any sort of appealing place to live in, I can only assume you live somewhere like Swindon (or Nottingham for that matter! )
I looks like Graham McNeill (who also worked on League of Legends/Arcane (player count 100+ million), and not just for GW) also posted about Trench Crusade from before the kickstarter. That also might have contributed to its success.
Pacific wrote: Definitely think it has captured the moment of Dark Souls-esque design, or Kingdom Death (which was also insanely popular) minus the cheesecake.
There's definitely some "cheesecake", albeit in the style of H.Giger or Brom (think Dark Age the wargame) than the Korean MMO style of Kingdom Death. Plus the Artillery Witch is insanely popular to the point I think she might be an unofficial mascot of the setting.
Anyway, I think seeing the setting as "pro-christian" is a bit surface level, I'm pretty sure almost everything the "good" factions do in the setting that involves religion would be blasphemous or downright offensive to actual IRL christian dogma. It is (imo) using the christian themes in the same way anime does, as exotic and radical aesthetic choice.
Disagree, I'd argue "Everyone so bad" is the simplistic, played-out, cringe-centrist, faux-sophisticate take. This setting can most definitely be viewed through a good vs evil lense, you just have to allow certain leeway/dispensation.
IE - look the other way from atrocities, war crimes and crimes against humanity, religious fundamemtalism, extremism, heresy, blasphemy, etc. Shrug your shoulders, ignore authorial intent, say "the ends justify the means", and acknowledge that youre perfectly ok with the idea of surrendering your humanity to fight evil without having the self-awareness to realize that in doing so you become the very horror youre trying to destroy.
Talk about simplistic, played out, cringe-regressive, anti-intellectual takes.
I went in and backed pretty heavily, getting everything for Heretic Legions (C’mon, guy. The 12-year-old kid in my brain has no natural defense against an “Artillery Witch”) and New Antioch. I love the “Crusades meets WWI in the DOOM timeline” setting, and the models are just amazing.
Also, I love the fact that I can get a physical copy of the rulebook. I like free and regularly updated rules as much as the next guy, but I DETEST having to bring out a phone or a tablet (that is likely to get stolen) while at anything other than a friendly game. I’d much rather have a physical rulebook that I can just update myself as time passes.
Cyel wrote: TC falls woefully short here (as most wargames do).
What's wrong with the rules, from your perspective?
Well, random charges were the only red flag I needed to see to stop right there. But in general what I managed to see felt quite formulaic and uninspired. You know, a relic from the times when such games told you "the only thing you need to do is move your models so that they are closer to enemy models and then keep rolling the dice until someone kills someone" just with a little make-up. Forget planning, thinking, decisions, choices, roll dice and see what happens.
To be fair, wargames that DON'T do this are really very few and far between, and those that do have their own problems. For some reason board games managed to evolve Monopoly into Brass, Risk into Blood Rage or Snakes and Ladders into Heat: Pedal to the Metal...but wargames seem to have this evolution happen at a maddeningly sluggish pace.
NAVARRO wrote: Oh religion... Too much of it in the world already dont need it on my minis.
I feel the same way, and some of the fans of the game are scary weird (posting that they are literally praying and praising jeebus for a successful KS), etc.
But my entire game group jumped into the STL pledges, and I enjoy spending time with them, so I'll do a skirmish system "as a palette cleanser," the way my son put it.
the minis are stunning, the rules seems laid back and fun. Truly a hobby-focused game to me.
Cyel wrote: TC falls woefully short here (as most wargames do).
What's wrong with the rules, from your perspective?
Well, random charges were the only red flag I needed to see to stop right there. But in general what I managed to see felt quite formulaic and uninspired. You know, a relic from the times when such games told you "the only thing you need to do is move your models so that they are closer to enemy models and then keep rolling the dice until someone kills someone" just with a little make-up. Forget planning, thinking, decisions, choices, roll dice and see what happens.
To be fair, wargames that DON'T do this are really very few and far between, and those that do have their own problems. For some reason board games managed to evolve Monopoly into Brass, Risk into Blood Rage or Snakes and Ladders into Turbo...but wargames seem to have this evolution happen at a maddeningly sluggish pace.
Well, the rules are basically Mordheim, with an alternative resolution (2d6) versus a d6 system, and lots of special rules for factions and models. If you don’t like Mordheim, you likely won’t like TC. I like Mordheim a ton, but am ambivalent about TC, aside from the concept and cool minis. If I were going to play Mordheim, I’d play Mordheim. YMMV.
I would honestly love a game that had as much narrative potential as Mordheim but was... good mechanically. And while TC has a remarkable setting, I don't really think I could empathize with any of the characters on the battlefield. I think from that angle it's closer to stuff like Kill Team. A spectacular but emotionless contest of tactical skill or what have you.
Out of curiousity, what wargames have others played here that have really blown their minds, evolved well beyond that sluggish pace?
I tried ASOIF TMG not that long ago - that's almost the only minis game in recent memory to shock me with how good it is. I just don't love the setting (I like elves, dwarves, and orcs, what can I say?)
I also really liked Deadzone. Lots of very cool, outside the box type thinking that (by 3rd edition, anyway) worked really well.
Out of curiousity, what wargames have others played here that have really blown their minds, evolved well beyond that sluggish pace?
I tried ASOIF TMG not that long ago - that's almost the only minis game in recent memory to shock me with how good it is. I just don't love the setting (I like elves, dwarves, and orcs, what can I say?)
I also really liked Deadzone. Lots of very cool, outside the box type thinking that (by 3rd edition, anyway) worked really well.
AT-43. After spending the better part of a month puzzling out the rules, we had about 15 people meeting weekly to play. When the ONI were released, everybody went nuts for them. And then Rackham went away...
Maybe Monolith can revive it in the future, but it really was a solid rule set.
We enjoyed Confrontation (original Skirmish) but it was way to fiddly as time passed, and the reboot was just not as much fun (but very AT-43).
I am also a HUGE fan of Darklands, but that is more because of the miniatures than the game system. While enjoyable, it requires almost a Star Fleet Battles level of dedication to play.
Project Update #22 wrote:Only-Games visit and the Pledge Manager
Greetings Crusaders,
I hope you’ve all had a good weekend and are ready for some news!
Only-Games facility visit
So what I should have been doing last week is recovering after the madness that was the KS campaign. And if any of my friends or family ask, please tell them that I was indeed having a long lie down in a dark room.
What I was actually doing though was going to London with James to visit Only-Games. Given the success of the campaign we all thought it would be best to have a face to face meeting as soon as possible.
We sat down and had a long discussion about the project and how it was going to be fulfilled, going into a lot of detail which I’m going to break down for you all here. To put it succinctly though, both me and James walked away very reassured.
The first reason for this is their setup. And I’m not talking about 3D printers here. Of course they have 2 rooms full of machines going day and night but, honestly, anyone with a credit card can have that. It’s the stages that come after the printing: Quality control, sorting and packing where OG have really innovated. The system they’ve developed tracks parts all the way through the process, from providing quality control agents with detailed 3D renders to check for defaults, all the way through to a barcode system to double check that all parts are present and correct for packing and shipping.
Next, their experience: Most of you will know Shop3D for their on demand printing services but they also have a lot of experience with bulk printing. They’re currently fulfilling a campaign for Greytide Studios which will be shipping even more individual pieces than we will for TC. We got to see how they were handling this and, once again, no notes.
Last, but not least, is that Factory Fortress and Only-Games clearly have a lot in common and get along like a heretic on fire. We have very similar views on miniatures, the industry and the wargaming community. They are very aware of the situation and the trust we’re placing in them with this project. At the same time, they’ve been waiting for an opportunity to show the world what they can really do, so they’re as committed to getting this done as we are.
For those of you that had some concerns, we also talked about some of the complaints levied against OG and they were very honest with their replies. They’re a company that’s really trying to push the boundaries of what 3D printing can do for the miniatures world. Of course, there have been teething issues as they’ve grown but they’ve continued to improve their process, fix any issues and, most importantly, make sure that everyone always receives their minis. A good example of this would be the aforementioned Greytide campaign. They found an issue with a particular piece and managed to get it fixed very quickly, another big advantage to 3D printing. Only 30 or so packages went out with the faulty piece and those concerned have had parts reprinted and sent.
So, as I said before, we’re very reassured after our visit (and I’m sleeping a lot better). But, what does that mean for delivery, Jamie? I hear you all cry.
Well it’s good news. Despite having around 3K more orders than the original estimation, Only-Games is standing firm on the 3-5 month delivery window. Barring any unforeseen issues, everyone will have their miniatures before the summer of 2025.
The current plan is to spend the rest of the year test printing and finalizing the files for bulk printing as well as pre-producing as much as possible. Things will really start up in January and the first packages will start to ship out before the end of the month.
I’ll finish with some photos of the test prints that we picked up whilst we were there. Like with the pics on the KS page, almost no cleanup was done on these. There’s a few changes we want to make to the thickness of certain parts (like the Plague Knight’s polearm) but otherwise we’re very happy with the results!
The Pledge Manager
The visit to OG did have one downside in that it took up a lot of my time last week. I was not able to finalize the pledge manager and still need some time to sort out the last few details and give it a test run. Therefore, the PM will now be launching next week instead. I’ll be back next monday (the 25th) with news and a final date, but it will be during the week starting on the 25th!
Obviously this doesn’t delay the delivery to the backers who pledged physical miniatures but it will technically push the delivery of STL files back by a week or so. I'm sorry about this folks but it really was worth it to get physical production locked in. Also, jokes aside, I needed to ease off the throttle a bit this weekend after 3 weeks of frantic activity and just couldn’t get it done. I hope you can all understand.
I’ll finish by saying that we’re almost at the 20,000 members mark on Discord and 40,000 on Facebook! Our mods have also just finished doing a redesign of the Discord server too so if you're looking for a place to talk lore, share your warband plans or find crusaders in your area to play with, feel free to join us!
Have a great week folks and we’ll be back soon with more news!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I got a serious hankering for more Trench Crusade style models that I'm going to need to see dealt with in the time being.
I'm wondering if anyone has some suggestions to check out with the MMF black friday sale getting under way.
Westfalia has upcoming TC but idk if it will be ready for black friday. JK.Remo has his stuff on sale, he's expensive so now would be the time if you like his stuff.
Gloom Trench was the one I was actually looking for, since I never bothered to bookmark it every time I've come across them.
Situation rectified at last!
Cyel wrote: TC falls woefully short here (as most wargames do).
What's wrong with the rules, from your perspective?
Well, random charges were the only red flag I needed to see to stop right there. But in general what I managed to see felt quite formulaic and uninspired. You know, a relic from the times when such games told you "the only thing you need to do is move your models so that they are closer to enemy models and then keep rolling the dice until someone kills someone" just with a little make-up. Forget planning, thinking, decisions, choices, roll dice and see what happens.
To be fair, wargames that DON'T do this are really very few and far between, and those that do have their own problems. For some reason board games managed to evolve Monopoly into Brass, Risk into Blood Rage or Snakes and Ladders into Heat: Pedal to the Metal...but wargames seem to have this evolution happen at a maddeningly sluggish pace.
I feel the same way about evolution in game design, Cyel. Yet, if evolved wargame designs are something you crave, then I would recommend exploring beyond the miniature wargame genre and play some board wargames. Lots of innovation there. Sure, they overwhelmingly focus on historical topics, but if mechanics are your grail…
I haven't really paid attention to TC but it's everywhere lately and I watched Louise's video... all of the artwork for this project looks like AI generated 'grim dark religious soldier' prompts. I'm curious to look at the rules but I don't get why this has blown up the way it has.
all of the artwork for this project looks like AI generated 'grim dark religious soldier' prompts.
I think that's a function of the fact that Mike Franchina has been doing these paintings since 2016, and a lot of image generating AI tools scrape sites like Artstation and Deviantart for their training data. None of it is AI generated, but AI is copying this style.
A lot of people are attracted by the art, a lot of people are attracted by the setting - alternate history real-world with supernatural influence. An awful lot of people are excited by Tuomas Pirinen doing the game and seeing it as a spiritual successor to Mordheim - a campaign driven small warband skirmish game in a grimdark setting.
all of the artwork for this project looks like AI generated 'grim dark religious soldier' prompts.
I think that's a function of the fact that Mike Franchina has been doing these paintings since 2016, and a lot of image generating AI tools scrape sites like Artstation and Deviantart for their training data. None of it is AI generated, but AI is copying this style.
OK, that's a very funny point to make that makes a lot of sense to me. Unfortunate things have hashed out that way now, and I suspect a lot of future art projects are going to suffer from comparisons to AI slop.
For me shipping appears to be 9$, the state tax though is eye watering. I had originally planned to go all in for 3 warbands but i'm starting to think I should dial it down to just two.
I guess I need to be reminded from time to time why I don't bother with Kickstarters any more.
It's the same reason I stopped backing Kickstarters for RPGs. By the time you add shipping and VAT on you could probably get it cheaper at retail anyway.
Thargrim wrote: For me shipping appears to be 9$, the state tax though is eye watering. I had originally planned to go all in for 3 warbands but i'm starting to think I should dial it down to just two.
Yeah, I think this is the first time I've seen a "State Tax" charged in a Backerkit pledge manager?
Was a bit of a surprise - and an unwelcome one at that!
Update #28: wrote:Pledge Manager FAQ and Book VAT for UK/EU
Greetings Crusaders,
A quick update today concerning the Backerkit.
VAT rates on books in the UK and EU.
We have been looking into this and can confirm that you will be paying less. Please give us some time to work out the specifics and put together an update addressing this. If you have already confirmed your pledge, rest assured that you have not been charged yet and the new total will be calculated automatically once we’ve made changes to the PM.
Add-ons not appearing in my cart
Any add-ons you added to your pledge during the KS campaign have not been added to your cart automatically. You need to add them manually. The credits for them have been added to your account of course. Please note that as the system calculates shipping and taxes it may, at first glance, look like you have less credits than you originally pledged. This is not the case and there is a detailed rundown of all the costs on the confirmation page.
Paypal issues
As we mentioned in the PM guide, our Paypal won’t be active until later today or tomorrow. Please check back in then if you want to pay with Paypal.
Shipping costs are higher than on the KS page.
There has been a small price rise which we covered in a previous update. Our suppliers did not include the price increase that will occur at the beginning of next year in the original quotes. Our apologies for this.
Also, please notd that shipping on the books is not a flat rate. If you order more than one it will cost extra but there are real savings to be had by group ordering Books.
Apple pay Emails
If you used apple pay to back the campaign there may be an issue with your email address which will prevent you from receiving the PM invite. You should have received an email about this. If you still need assistance afterwards, you can PM us here on Kickstarter.
I didn’t receive my invitation
If your invitation doesn’t look like it arrived, please check your spam folders as well as “promotional” tabs on email clients like Gmail.
All invitations will be sent to the email address linked to your Kickstarter account, so please check your account here on Kickstarter if you’re unsure.
You can also try this link to have your invitation resent to you.
Thargrim wrote: For me shipping appears to be 9$, the state tax though is eye watering. I had originally planned to go all in for 3 warbands but i'm starting to think I should dial it down to just two.
Yeah, I think this is the first time I've seen a "State Tax" charged in a Backerkit pledge manager?
Was a bit of a surprise - and an unwelcome one at that!
My state has had that for several years now (one of the first to get Amazon to collect sales tax) and similar laws are pretty much everywhere now.
++ TC RULEBOOK VAT TO 0% - OR THE TC CHRISTMAS TRUCE ++
We want to give as many people as possible the opportunity to acquire the Trench Crusade Rulebook that we have worked so hard to make something we are proud of. The community has shown us such tremendous support to our fledgling game that we decided the only correct path forward is to return the same kind of generosity and goodwill we have received from you.
Thus, we will be picking up the entire VAT tab on ALL of the Trench Crusade rulebooks for this Campaign. This extends to all regions no matter what your local taxation system is called (Sales tax for the USA, GST for Australia, etc). UK backers, we’re going to subsidize a bit more of the shipping on the books for you due your VAT for books being 0%.
Happy holidays, or Felicem Nativitatem Dominias they would say in New Antioch!
I'm stuck at what factions to pick up as I haven't had time to have a proper research session but I will definitely order the book, and the reduced shipping is indeed a great touch by the team.
I could probably field just about every single thing in the book based on STL files alone, nevermind all my actual painted or printed models.
Yet I'm in the same boat of trying to figure out what to get.
Will probably end up with at least the heretic and pilgrim modular sets to serve as a start for whatever factions I want to try. Same with the accessory sets. The more parts to tinker with, the better.
Only faction I know I'm grabbing everything right out the gate for is the Court. They have some fun demon models that can get plenty of use elsewhere.
Tabletop_Magpie wrote: I'm stuck at what factions to pick up as I haven't had time to have a proper research session but I will definitely order the book, and the reduced shipping is indeed a great touch by the team.
Everyone liable for tax on the book got a decent price cut, except the people that weren't liable for tax, they just got a couple of bucks off the postage instead. I'd call that scant remittal.
Tabletop_Magpie wrote: I'm stuck at what factions to pick up as I haven't had time to have a proper research session but I will definitely order the book, and the reduced shipping is indeed a great touch by the team.
Everyone liable for tax on the book got a decent price cut, except the people that weren't liable for tax, they just got a couple of bucks off the postage instead. I'd call that scant remittal.
Tabletop_Magpie wrote: I'm stuck at what factions to pick up as I haven't had time to have a proper research session but I will definitely order the book, and the reduced shipping is indeed a great touch by the team.
Everyone liable for tax on the book got a decent price cut, except the people that weren't liable for tax, they just got a couple of bucks off the postage instead. I'd call that scant remittal.
Think it is worth a show here.. this one by Paul Bonner is just an absolute stonker. Made me want to support the game just by itself
Are the shrine golem things actually scaled that big in game? I didn't think they would be that huge.
Wretches (I think that's what those are) are human sized, aren't they?
Think it is worth a show here.. this one by Paul Bonner is just an absolute stonker. Made me want to support the game just by itself
Spoiler:
Are the shrine golem things actually scaled that big in game? I didn't think they would be that huge.
Wretches (I think that's what those are) are human sized, aren't they?
Bit of artistic licence going on there I reckon. Hard to tell just from the renders shown but the side by side on the KS page has the adjacent Trench Pilgrims (sans giant hats) coming up to somewhere between knee and thigh height on the Shrine Anchorite.
The only point of scale reference on the anchorite is the dead sheep, which certainly makes it look a lot smaller as a model than that art. Of course, it could always be a case of being de-biggened for the tabletop for better gameplay.
Shakalooloo wrote: The only point of scale reference on the anchorite is the dead sheep, which certainly makes it look a lot smaller as a model than that art. Of course, it could always be a case of being de-biggened for the tabletop for better gameplay.
Got all the stls today as well. Going to wait until after Christmas to start printing, but the printer is going to be busy for a good few weeks. The sculpts really do look great.
Shakalooloo wrote: The only point of scale reference on the anchorite is the dead sheep, which certainly makes it look a lot smaller as a model than that art. Of course, it could always be a case of being de-biggened for the tabletop for better gameplay.
Shrines are 12 feet tall according to their fluff in the rulebook so the art is wildly oversized, but still awesome.
Well, in celebration of the STLs release, we tested out TC at my club tonight. 4 players, 2 tables, 3 games.
Tables:
Spoiler:
It's okay. The editing is terrible. Mantra of the day was "they're shipping rulebooks last so they will catch the errors". It combines the absolute worst of 1990s and 2020s GW design language, and we coined the term vaguely overexplained. Massive word salads that try and spectacularly fail to cover all cases.
Activation sequence is pleasant, there is potential to do a lot at once with one figure but nothing is guaranteed and there is a hard cap on not repeating actions, so no snowballing out of control. Definitely the one part of the game I'd like all wargame designers to take a look at and iterate on further.
Dice mechanics, as expected, get monotonous quick, you're always fishing for that 7+ on 2d6 and every item, every skill, every stat is a modifier to the roll, there is no design space for anything else.
Damage is fairly abstract with the blood tokens you can cash in for a debuff on their attack roll or buff on your damage roll. It can often happen for one token to do a few laps around the table while resolving an attack sequence (from a machine gun, say) without anything meaningful happening. You shoot, you cash in a token, you score "inflict one token", repeat.
Bottom line, if a pleasant person asks me for a game and I'm free, I'll play. I will never ask for a game myself. I'd rather play Forbidden Psalm: The Last War if I wanted the vibe, or The Doomed if I wanted a slick unified dice mechanic, or Turnip28 if I felt like kitbashing a crazy grimdark regiment.
He must have an actual head, drawn on a little piece of paper. It just must have slipped out of the clip
@blackfang - thanks for the write up. I was expecting this after I skimmed the rules when they first released - a lot of form, but no actual substance. A couple of battle reports on YT confirmed that.
Not too dissimilar to what boardgamers call the KS syndrome - a couple of kilograms worth of plastic figures and cardboard in several attractively colourful boxes but with very little actual game inside. OfcTC doesn't have components or boxes like a board game, but seems to have a similar ratio of form (which attracts customers) to function.
Most likely, yes.
I'm not sure I like the rules for inflicting injuries. I don't mind the action table as there does seem to be a fair bit of granularity (though I can imagine the +/- dice system can be confusing at first), but the injury system is odd in that a big monster is about as easy to wound and kill as a little guy, if I understand the rules right.
Big monsters do get the Tough rule which basically means that you have to take them out of action twice, but the odds of getting them to that state is about the same as an infantryman, which is weird to me.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Most likely, yes. I'm not sure I like the rules for inflicting injuries. I don't mind the action table as there does seem to be a fair bit of granularity (though I can imagine the +/- dice system can be confusing at first), but the injury system is odd in that a big monster is about as easy to wound and kill as a little guy, if I understand the rules right.
I think the game could benefit from a max blood-marker mechanic, where a model can only support so many blood markers before it's immediately taken out of action.
Dice math is pretty wild, the first + or - dice is a massive swing in the 2d6 roll, 3d6 drop highest is basically a 6+ on 1D6 and 3d6 drop lowest is a 2+ on 1D6 roll. And modifiers are everywhere, as that's the only design space there is. Every skill, every stat, every item is a modifier to the number of dice in this one roll, and once you add them all up and see if you're dropping lowest or dropping highest, you can be pretty sure what the outcome will be without bothering with the roll.
There is armour as a straight (not dice but final result) modifier to the injury roll, tough models with -3 to injury rolls when you need a 9 to kill is a tall order, you basically need boxcars. There is a hard cap on blood tokens, but it's 6 for any model, and you can cash 6 in to roll +1 dice in injury rolls and add it to the score, rather than picking highest. On the whole the token stuff feels very abstract and board gamey tho.
That's not how it says it works in the rules though. I'm looking at the 1.5 version and you get a +1 Dice pour each pip you have on the blood marker, or you exchange 6 pips for a bonus D6.
Bloodbath: Roll an additional D6 and add it to the injury roll total. Costs six
BLOOD MARKERS (three if the target is
Down)
When rolling on the Injury Chart against this
model, the opponent can spend one or more of
the BLOOD MARKERS to add +1 DICE to the
roll for each pip. This makes a severe injury more
likely. When you attack a wounded model, you
can spend one or more of the markers to add +1
DICE to the attack roll for each marker.
But yeah, the blood marker mechanic does feel kind of gamey. I think I would have preferred a health pool system, but that seems to be a core mechanic the devs are going for.
Having never played mordheim or even looked at mordheims rules, hows it compare? Big selling point of the game fpr a while now has been "its mevhanically a modern iteration of mordheim", curious how true that is
chaos0xomega wrote: Having never played mordheim or even looked at mordheims rules, hows it compare? Big selling point of the game fpr a while now has been "its mevhanically a modern iteration of mordheim", curious how true that is
Mordheim uses the classic GW statline, IGOUGO, attack mechanics, etc. It's skirmish Warhammer. Like Necromunda, it adds a lot of granularity, but there is already a slight shift towards reducing the mental load (mooks come in groups that level up together, for instance). Like most GW games it's honestly a mechanical travesty, but has immense narrative potential, from capturing the Y2K zeitgeist to adding oodles of random tables and mishaps that can happen to your dudes, making it widely considered as the most immersive game ever.
I personally think TC cannot compare in the slightest, due to the setting, teen edge dialed up to 21 where everyone is stuck in permanent war and there is no big treasure at the end to aspire to and retire on. Mordheim was about assembling a team of losers who risk it all to score big and you watch them fail in funny ways, TC is just marching miserable wretches off to die in trenches for either God or Satan, I don't see how to emotionally invest in that.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well, in celebration of the STLs release, we tested out TC at my club tonight. 4 players, 2 tables, 3 games.
It's okay.
The editing is terrible. Mantra of the day was "they're shipping rulebooks last so they will catch the errors". It combines the absolute worst of 1990s and 2020s GW design language, and we coined the term vaguely overexplained. Massive word salads that try and spectacularly fail to cover all cases.
Activation sequence is pleasant, there is potential to do a lot at once with one figure but nothing is guaranteed and there is a hard cap on not repeating actions, so no snowballing out of control. Definitely the one part of the game I'd like all wargame designers to take a look at and iterate on further.
Dice mechanics, as expected, get monotonous quick, you're always fishing for that 7+ on 2d6 and every item, every skill, every stat is a modifier to the roll, there is no design space for anything else.
Damage is fairly abstract with the blood tokens you can cash in for a debuff on their attack roll or buff on your damage roll. It can often happen for one token to do a few laps around the table while resolving an attack sequence (from a machine gun, say) without anything meaningful happening. You shoot, you cash in a token, you score "inflict one token", repeat.
Bottom line, if a pleasant person asks me for a game and I'm free, I'll play. I will never ask for a game myself. I'd rather play Forbidden Psalm: The Last War if I wanted the vibe, or The Doomed if I wanted a slick unified dice mechanic, or Turnip28 if I felt like kitbashing a crazy grimdark regiment.
This is the most useful post I've seen on the actual gameplay so far, and it doesn't seem like TC is adding anything to the grimdark skirmish scene that those other options you've mentioned aren't already doing and better.
Started printing. Iron Sultanate have all come out well. Had a lot of failures with Heretic Legions, however, which is odd as gave the printer a full clean and reset before getting started. Hopefully just FEP needs tightening. The rafts and supports are all very light, so not much margin for errors in other areas.
JamesY wrote: Started printing. Iron Sultanate have all come out well. Had a lot of failures with Heretic Legions, however, which is odd as gave the printer a full clean and reset before getting started. Hopefully just FEP needs tightening. The rafts and supports are all very light, so not much margin for errors in other areas.
Watch for resin traps. I know the War Wolf has a pocket under the glyph on his forehead.
It you get errors/print problems do check the Atlas3DSS Discord as they've been noting errors/fixing supports and providing printer setting/setup support https://discord.com/invite/CZxNgneq
@blackfang cheers for that, I'll see if I can get a small hole drilled and drain it out.
@Overead cheers, I've been looking at the Google doc. Didn't have an issue with the bull, I think that just needed properly filling with IPA and giving a good shake before draining it all out thoroughly, so some of the reported issues seem to be fixable at the user end. Never gotten on with Discord, but might have to download it again if it's a different log to the Google one.
JamesY wrote: @blackfang cheers for that, I'll see if I can get a small hole drilled and drain it out.
@Overead cheers, I've been looking at the Google doc. Didn't have an issue with the bull, I think that just needed properly filling with IPA and giving a good shake before draining it all out thoroughly, so some of the reported issues seem to be fixable at the user end. Never gotten on with Discord, but might have to download it again if it's a different log to the Google one.
Discord is just sign in with your own account - think of it like reddit where one account lets you join many separate groups. Only Discord lets groups have multiple channels to converse in so its not the "one long stream of posts mess" that reddits become.
@Overread thank you for the breakdown, that makes it seem more accessible. I'll try and get my head around it, seems that more and more digital sculptors are using it as their primary communication platform so would be helpful to get on with it
JamesY wrote: @Overread thank you for the breakdown, that makes it seem more accessible. I'll try and get my head around it, seems that more and more digital sculptors are using it as their primary communication platform so would be helpful to get on with it
Honestly its one of the biggest spots for 3D printing community interactions from creators and industry people. FB and Reddit have many fans but Discord is where you'll find most of the actual creators and printing firms
JamesY wrote: @Overread thank you for the breakdown, that makes it seem more accessible. I'll try and get my head around it, seems that more and more digital sculptors are using it as their primary communication platform so would be helpful to get on with it
Honestly its one of the biggest spots for 3D printing community interactions from creators and industry people. FB and Reddit have many fans but Discord is where you'll find most of the actual creators and printing firms
Yeah, and Trench Crusade is basically built on STLs. It's very supportive of 3d printing and is pretty much a miniature agnostic game.
Discord community is pretty chill too.
The Heretic forces lead the Faithful in the arms race of tanks and other armoured vehicles. They
are heavily armoured, fast-moving and often armed with terrifying hell-forged Sacrilege-type
tank mortars. These weapons are designed to penetrate trenches, pillboxes and other defensive
structures by employing technology that briefly tears through reality to puncture the defences.
They target the occupants within using ammunition that unleashes echoes of the reversed
words of God's Creation, reverberating at bone-shattering volume throughout the structures
under attack. Specifically designed to undo divine work, they peel away skin, nervous systems
and finally the flesh and internal organs of any mortals, layer by layer for each word as God’s
creation is undone, causing excruciating death as their target slowly becomes unmade.
To counter these armoured threats that have been used time and again to break through their
lines, the Prussians have developed many battlefield innovations from anti-materiel rifles to
specialist close quarter Gardekorps units. As the Sacrilege cannons are slow-firing and hard to
aim, the Prussians counter them with lighting-fast close quarters tactics.
The swords of the Gardekorps, commonly called ”tank-splitters”, are specifically designed to
disable or destroy enemy armoured vehicles.
Developed by the Prussian Institute of Metallurgy,
their edges are orichalcum and titanium alloy, and these near-monomolecular blades can cut
through most vehicle tracks and armour with ease, disabling them while the rest of the unit
swarms the tank with incendiary grenades. Speed is of essence here, as Heretics are
well-aware of this tactic and counter such attacks with elite Legionnaires of their own, who
compete with each other in capturing rather than killing the specialist Stoßtruppen, so they can
be sold to the agents of the Court of the Seven-Headed Serpent as punishment for their
audacity.
Though the Free State of Prussia is governed by an outlandish system called democracy (a relic
from ancient Hellas) where each citizen can vote for representatives on the Landtag to decide
state affairs, the nobility maintains a strong military tradition and has funds to buy officer’s
commission. Many families can trace their lineage back to the Teutonic Orders who once
conquered the lands of Prussia.
Depicted here is Frau Hauptmann Frederica von Goltz of the IV Gardekorps of Königsberg.
Many units of the Prussian army disallow women in combat units, but scions of noble lineage
often exercise their privilege of joining any regiment they wish. Von Goltz’s armour is
hand-crafted by her personal armourer and, unlike the mass-produced suits of the
rank-and-file, it allows sufficient speed and mobility for the furious and bitter melee combat the
role of the unit requires.
Mensur duelling is used to assess the required bravery of candidates of
the tank-splitter units, and Hauptmann von Goltz carries many scars on her face to prove hers.
"To be Prussian is an honour but not a pleasure."
Spoiler:
Loving the description of the Heretics anti-creation weapon, it sounds horrifying.
I like the blend of medieval and more modern fare. I think it looks cool.
If that's the officer, I wonder what the rank and file gardekorps looks like. It says they wear mass produced armour that's not as agile as her suit, so maybe they look bulkier and more industrial?
JamesY wrote: @Overread thank you for the breakdown, that makes it seem more accessible. I'll try and get my head around it, seems that more and more digital sculptors are using it as their primary communication platform so would be helpful to get on with it
Honestly its one of the biggest spots for 3D printing community interactions from creators and industry people. FB and Reddit have many fans but Discord is where you'll find most of the actual creators and printing firms
Yeah, and Trench Crusade is basically built on STLs. It's very supportive of 3d printing and is pretty much a miniature agnostic game.
Discord community is pretty chill too.
No need to tell me that bit- went all in for all the stls in the KS. Printer has been running none stop since they arrived .
