kodos wrote:


Looking at the casket, catapult and giant they are kind of reasonable for what they are, chunky resin models most likely made in traditional silicone moulds
(comparing it to the Mantic Frost Giant, which is twice the size and only partially resin, and costs 80€, the resin Giant from Conquest also double the site costs 140€)

The casket and catapult have more pieces, more volume of resin, more models, and are frankly way more detailed. Less than $80 cad for those is a reasonable price; the bone giant isn't. I don't need to compare it to other companies because I can compare it to other stuff from its own range.

But let's do it anyways.

The conquest giant is way bigger than the GW one. It's also....explicitly a collectors version. This means that it has a really high amount of detail and isn't the default buy game piece, so is priced accordingly. The default game piece is 65 USD/Euro (and also huge), while the bone giant is 78 USD. Like, both these conquest models are comparable to GW mega gargants in size.

The mantic giant is...almost exactly in the same boat. It's highly detailed, almost double the size of the bone giant, and theres a much cheaper plastic giant that's also the same height.

Like let's be real. GW isn't using resin to leverage it's higher detail level; they're using resin because it's cheaper for them as a material in those moulds over metal, and way cheaper to ship. If any of those other companies made the bone giant it'd be in plastic and like, a third of the price. If they did it in resin it'd be half the price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShadowsAndDust wrote:
From what I gather, GW's pricing model relates to how many you can field in an army. GW figures that they won't sell as many of certain models if one is only allowed in an army, so they jack the price way up.

And yet, is still wildly inconsistent.

Apophas is 24 cad for an infantry hero, nekaph is 50 cad for an infantry hero.

The catapult is limited in army list construction to 2/1000 and is 72 cad. The casket is limited to 1/1000 and is 77 cad. The bone giant has no limit, and can even be picked in the special slot, and is 96 cad.

What else? The metal trolls that are 2 for 50 cad and are in the special/core slot, while the ushabti are 3 for 96 cad and are...in the special/core slot.

Wonder what the next release is after Dwarves...Bad guy army right?

Hoping for WoC! But probably Bad Guys, yeah.

 rybackstun wrote:
Hoping for WoC! But probably Bad Guys, yeah.

I see what you did there.

With BoC having just been in production anyway, feels like the easiest one to do if there was joined up thinking going on.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Wonder what the next release is after Dwarves...Bad guy army right?

There have been a few mentions somewhere that it might be Empire, and that Empire effectively counts as "both sides" of the good/bad split so far because of the civil war.

If we look at the past releases it could be woodelves-beastmen or
empire-chaos and the highelves as a single release.

Orcs & Goblins Made-to-order next week:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/28/sunday-preview-white-dwarf-500-and-legions-imperialis-hardware/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sudaypreview&utm_content=sundaypreview280424

Marauder Orc Shaman on Wyvern
Marauder Giant
Black Orc Boss
Stone Trolls (Two sets)
River Trolls

They're all metal too...So now I see Marauder is attached to the Wyvern Shaman model too. Is that not just a way to describe the unique giant? Or is it something else?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also there is soooooooo much character in those trolls. Something you don't really see nowadays with computer design imo.

 nathan2004 wrote:
They're all metal too...So now I see Marauder is attached to the Wyvern Shaman model too. Is that not just a way to describe the unique giant? Or is it something else?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also there is soooooooo much character in those trolls. Something you don't really see nowadays with computer design imo.

Marauder was a separate company:

"Formed by Ally and Trish Morrison. They set up as a separate company in 1988, announced in WD106. The exact reason for forming a separate company is unclear, but may may been to establish multiple brands, or to keep personalities apart!

Their miniatures were cast and distributed by Citadel alongside the normal Citadel ranges, although at one time they were using the Wargames Foundry facilities. Later miniatures were also designed by Colin Dixon. They were reabsorbed back into the main Citadel ranges in 1993, about the same time that the 4th edition of Warhammer was launched. The last distinct Marauder advert is in WD152, after that they are shown in the normal White Dwarf catalog section. They continue to be listed in the catalogs as Marauder Miniatures until the 1994 catalog, and miniatures marked on the tab as Marauder continued to appear for several years. "

Thanks I didn't know that about the company and the split/reabsorption.

This is going to get awfully expensive because I want all of them.

I loved many of these models at the time, and bought several of them, but I can't say that they've held up that well. The old metal sculpts do have a lot of character, it's true, but the plastics look pretty crude. Clearly I'm in a minority, however - GW made a good decision going after the nostalgia dollar. I suppose there is some cost involved in refurbishing the old moulds and doing some new packaging, but it still looks like easy money to me.

I had never seen those river trolls before but I fell in love immediately


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Snord wrote:
I loved many of these models at the time, and bought several of them, but I can't say that they've held up that well. The old metal sculpts do have a lot of character, it's true, but the plastics look pretty crude. Clearly I'm in a minority, however - GW made a good decision going after the nostalgia dollar. I suppose there is some cost involved in refurbishing the old moulds and doing some new packaging, but it still looks like easy money to me.

For me it's the other way around. I came to the hobby because of lotr and always found Warhammer and 40K miniatures very crude and goofy. Nowadays they've grown on me. Still not on par with lotr from the same time of course, but I get the appeal. And for many things proper comparable plastics are still rare, especially since GW went overpriced monoposes that don’t work in larger units.

Finally the Marauder Giant! Also I have all but one of those Stone Trolls. Not sure if they are being made to order in groups or singles but I have a need to complete my collection!

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Finally the Marauder Giant! Also I have all but one of those Stone Trolls. Not sure if they are being made to order in groups or singles but I have a need to complete my collection!

I'm guessing two different groups of three will be how the stone trolls go on sale.

The original article said 2 sets of three.

If they're under 20 euro a pop I suppose it's alright. I'd find it hard to stomach 60 euro for three of them - though I seem to recall that was the price toward the end of Warhammer Fantasy, which is why I never got more than one of each type.

They were €20 per troll 14 years ago, I doubt they'll be that cheap now. I'm happy if they're even Ushabti price.

Dang...well, buying 3 is still probably a better deal than the prices for individual ones that go on Ebay.

I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

Going by Ushabti prices the Stone Trolls won't much better than eBay, but I'll be getting them. To me they're quintessential Warhammer, full of character and fun, up there with steam tanks, night goblins fanatics and Skaven.

What I don't understand is why the Stone Trolls aren't apart of the permanent range. They were the face of mail order of decades.

The giant holds up to this day, river trolls have grown on me, I love serpentine wyvern and the black orc boss is really neat.

 Snord wrote:
I loved many of these models at the time, and bought several of them, but I can't say that they've held up that well. The old metal sculpts do have a lot of character, it's true, but the plastics look pretty crude. Clearly I'm in a minority, however - GW made a good decision going after the nostalgia dollar. I suppose there is some cost involved in refurbishing the old moulds and doing some new packaging, but it still looks like easy money to me.

I find that I like the wording of the rules for the latest ruleset much better than 8th, so I am happy to grab the official rules. (Also, keeping an open mind about Kings of War, One Page Rules and Dragon Rampant).

However, as far as the actual minis, I did buy the Bret set to get me started, but because of price/asthetics I've strayed from GW. I've been 3D printing (elves, Brets) or buying preprinted off Etsy, as I like a lot of the modern looks 3rd party creators have made - especially those like Highland Miniatures & Monstrous Encounters. I'm even picking up some units that don't specifically exist in WHFB, but could easily make stats for them (hard part is really figuring points value).

WHFB is pretty generic fantasy, there's a lot of other creators making better minis for less than GW.

 Just Tony wrote:
I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

I'm sure there will be a bunch for cheap once the issue with them from Stormbringer hits.

 Stormonu wrote:

I find that I like the wording of the rules for the latest ruleset much better than 8th, so I am happy to grab the official rules. (Also, keeping an open mind about Kings of War, One Page Rules and Dragon Rampant).

However, as far as the actual minis, I did buy the Bret set to get me started, but because of price/asthetics I've strayed from GW. I've been 3D printing (elves, Brets) or buying preprinted off Etsy, as I like a lot of the modern looks 3rd party creators have made - especially those like Highland Miniatures & Monstrous Encounters. I'm even picking up some units that don't specifically exist in WHFB, but could easily make stats for them (hard part is really figuring points value).

WHFB is pretty generic fantasy, there's a lot of other creators making better minis for less than GW.

I respect what you said here but in my experience 3d printing is pretty hit or miss. My little bro is starting O&G and had Black Orcs and Boar Boars 3d printed and while the boars turned out okay, the Black Orcs turned out horrible despite looking okay in pics. Also I played a wood elf player yesterday that 3d printed the Ranger dudes (the ones with great weapons) and he was breaking arms and models left and right throughout the game not from dropping them or anything, just touching them. He ended up finding someone in the community to buy the legit models from.

 nathan2004 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

I find that I like the wording of the rules for the latest ruleset much better than 8th, so I am happy to grab the official rules. (Also, keeping an open mind about Kings of War, One Page Rules and Dragon Rampant).

However, as far as the actual minis, I did buy the Bret set to get me started, but because of price/asthetics I've strayed from GW. I've been 3D printing (elves, Brets) or buying preprinted off Etsy, as I like a lot of the modern looks 3rd party creators have made - especially those like Highland Miniatures & Monstrous Encounters. I'm even picking up some units that don't specifically exist in WHFB, but could easily make stats for them (hard part is really figuring points value).

WHFB is pretty generic fantasy, there's a lot of other creators making better minis for less than GW.

I respect what you said here but in my experience 3d printing is pretty hit or miss. My little bro is starting O&G and had Black Orcs and Boar Boars 3d printed and while the boars turned out okay, the Black Orcs turned out horrible despite looking okay in pics. Also I played a wood elf player yesterday that 3d printed the Ranger dudes (the ones with great weapons) and he was breaking arms and models left and right throughout the game not from dropping them or anything, just touching them. He ended up finding someone in the community to buy the legit models from.

3D printing is certainly far from "plug and play" levels of ease of use. The wrong resin, the wrong curing, badly designed parts and more can all result in issues. Not to mention poor calibration in the market means even "merchants" on stores can have very low grade results in what they produce.

There 100% are fantastic designers and models out there worth the month and if you get into it it greatly expands the range of models that you've got on offer for what you can get.


Personally I also got the Bret box and as soon as the Lady is back in stock I'll be getting her from the FW design. However I'm also ending up wnating to 3D print more models for this force - likely using Last Sword for a large Bret force. However there's every chance that a new army with modern models (eg a shiny new army of Kislev or Cathay) could well get me buying GW plastic ones too. In the end GW plastics are great to work with and produce great models that are fun to play with.

Platuan4th wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

I'm sure there will be a bunch for cheap once the issue with them from Stormbringer hits.

Issue with them from Stormbringer? I'm lost. What does this mean?

There's so many options on the market these days, I think it's a great time to "stray". My local shop stocks loads of fantasy ranges from small producers that easily fit into the Old World.

3D printing seems like a fun hobby but it's definitely it's own hobby and not one I'm much interested in.

 Just Tony wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

I'm sure there will be a bunch for cheap once the issue with them from Stormbringer hits.

Issue with them from Stormbringer? I'm lost. What does this mean?

Stormbringer is a magazine produced by Hachette, each magazine comes with GW models or paints.

The issue featuring Black Orcs has not been released yet

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

I'm sure there will be a bunch for cheap once the issue with them from Stormbringer hits.

Issue with them from Stormbringer? I'm lost. What does this mean?

Stormbringer is a magazine produced by Hachette, each magazine comes with GW models or paints.

The issue featuring Black Orcs has not been released yet

...but it's an AOS magazine, so why would it be coming with TOW models? is this something they've announced? i looked through the contents of stormbringer and the only orcs stuff are kruelboyz and ironjawz, but the ardboyz that they released for it is just the one kit of 5, which is far from the 20 black orcs they're selling

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

I'm sure there will be a bunch for cheap once the issue with them from Stormbringer hits.

Issue with them from Stormbringer? I'm lost. What does this mean?

Stormbringer is a magazine produced by Hachette, each magazine comes with GW models or paints.

The issue featuring Black Orcs has not been released yet

...but it's an AOS magazine, so why would it be coming with TOW models? is this something they've announced? i looked through the contents of stormbringer and the only orcs stuff are kruelboyz and ironjawz, but the ardboyz that they released for it is just the one kit of 5, which is far from the 20 black orcs they're selling

If you notice, they're the older WHFB Black Orc 'Ardboyz. Hunt eBay or online for 4 copies, boom 20 Black orcs. Should be cheaper than the GW box, too.

sure, but are those four copies going to be a better deal than what GW is currently selling?

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
sure, but are those four copies going to be a better deal than what GW is currently selling?

Yes. The Black Orc box will probably be $80 USD. A single issue of Stormbringer is $13-15 USD or so. That's a savings of ~$20 USD if you get them at retail, which you can from Hatchette's UK site when they go up.

they mentioned ebay, which is what i was thinking of, so i hadn't considered that just buying the issues lol

 Platuan4th wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
sure, but are those four copies going to be a better deal than what GW is currently selling?

Yes. The Black Orc box will probably be $80 USD. A single issue of Stormbringer is $13-15 USD or so. That's a savings of ~$20 USD if you get them at retail, which you can from Hatchette's UK site when they go up.

Black Orc boxes are retail items though, so you can find them for 15% off anyway. It's going to be a lot of hassle for like two dollars.

Also the image in the last issue of Stormbringer looked like they might have swapped them out for the new AOS models.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I was looking forward to snagging a box of Black Orcs as 20 was exactly what I needed, but at that price I think I can wait to do an ebay rehab.

I'm sure there will be a bunch for cheap once the issue with them from Stormbringer hits.

Issue with them from Stormbringer? I'm lost. What does this mean?

Stormbringer is a magazine produced by Hachette, each magazine comes with GW models or paints.

The issue featuring Black Orcs has not been released yet

...but it's an AOS magazine, so why would it be coming with TOW models? is this something they've announced? i looked through the contents of stormbringer and the only orcs stuff are kruelboyz and ironjawz, but the ardboyz that they released for it is just the one kit of 5, which is far from the 20 black orcs they're selling

If you notice, they're the older WHFB Black Orc 'Ardboyz. Hunt eBay or online for 4 copies, boom 20 Black orcs. Should be cheaper than the GW box, too.

Which issue is it gonna be that has the plastic black orcs in it?

Issue 70

 Platuan4th wrote:
Issue 70

It's 73 (70 is Ironskull’s Boyz), and a quick heads-up that there's a rumour they've been swapped out for the newer Orruk Ardboys.

 Stormonu wrote:


WHFB is pretty generic fantasy, there's a lot of other creators making better minis for less than GW.

Yep, always have been.
You bought GW for the really exclusive GW stuff that other companies didnt offer (steam tanks, gyrocopters, most things skaven, named characters etc) & filled in the ranks with stuff from everyone else.

Though now, with 3d printing, there's plenty of others making not-GW versions of almost anything.

General FYI for anyone who still wants them; the generic reference cards are back in stock on the GW website.

Using a bit of extrapolation the Marauder Giant is $165 NZ dollars, am I right in thinking that will place it around the £50 price bracket in the UK? And the trolls are $115 NZ, I make that £35 ish. Not terrible for 3 metal trolls.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Using a bit of extrapolation the Marauder Giant is $165 NZ dollars, am I right in thinking that will place it around the £50 price bracket in the UK? And the trolls are $115 NZ, I make that £35 ish. Not terrible for 3 metal trolls.

Yep

Marauder Giant £50 €65
Orc Shaman on Wyvern £50 €65
All Trolls £35 €45
Black Orc Big Boss £9 €12

Those prices aren't anywhere near as bad as I was expecting, I totally thought the Trolls would be priced like Ushabti

Yeah, that's a fiver cheaper per troll than they were back in the day. Kinda unbelievable! Great though, I guess both sets are on the cards.

I had budgeted up to £75 for the Giant, so to be able to add the River Trolls to my order for £10 over my original budget was an added bonus. Perhaps a lesson for GW about pricing?

Santtu wrote:
They were €20 per troll 14 years ago, I doubt they'll be that cheap now. I'm happy if they're even Ushabti price.

I've never been this happy about being wrong.

I wanted everything they had and managed to get it for about £50 less than I expected to pay. Still expensive but those models are great and well worth the price to me.

Took the River Trolls. Expected 60€ and was happy with 45€. In fact, if GW had went higher than 60 I'd have skipped them because I got them just for fun.

Stone trolls surprised me, as the plastic kit bears such a strong resemblance on top of better detail & customization.

Both the Giant and the Trolls are priced...decent? I wasn't expecting that. Now I really have no excuse not to get them.

After 30 years of dithering, I decided to finally buy a Marauder Giant. It's always been the definitive Warhammer giant to me.

Man I wish the Ushabti were priced the same (doubly so as they are a regular items and not the Trolls). Not that it matters much because they haven't been in stock since the launch here (like everything not plastic).

Gonna take a Giant for sure at that price for sure.

Well, I've ordered my 2 sets of Stone Trolls to go with these old things I painted about 24 years ago.

My worry is that the MTO will be so popular the models at the end of the run will be blobs of smooth metal.

 Pariah Press wrote:
After 30 years of dithering, I decided to finally buy a Marauder Giant. It's always been the definitive Warhammer giant to me.

Same. Been THE giant back when I started fantasy decades ago. Wasn't too hard to get it.

Wyvern i'm more on fence. Its not that special and wyvern on wizard(who can't take illusion) seems bad.

Have 18 stone trolls from git army so no need for those but river trolls do tempt.

Im really tempted by the darkoath box, but dont really have any need for it. So the deal with myself is I go to my flgs tomorrow and see if they still have the box. If so, its a sign from the dice god to buy it.

The same method have forced me to get the indomitus box and the plastic sisters of battle launch box before. No, wait, that was FOMO

Belthanos wrote:
Wyvern i'm more on fence. Its not that special and wyvern on wizard(who can't take illusion) seems bad.

Standing on one leg, that Wyvern used to fall over ALL THE TIME. Why couldn't they re-issue it with the grounded leg from Azhag's wyvern?

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Well, I've ordered my 2 sets of Stone Trolls to go with these old things I painted about 24 years ago.

Spoiler:

Those are great, can't even tell they come from a time before good acrylics were even invented.

Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

GW normally estimates something around 3 months for MTO - end of year would be shockingly bad.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

They make a set amount before they start the mto. If they sell through that stock, then it goes onto the made to order basis.

I ordered some Bretonnian MTO back in February, about 30 minutes before they were taken off sale. They still haven't shipped and I don't expect them for a while.

I ordered a Marauder Giant within 10 minutes of going on sale this past Saturday, and it has been shipped already.

MTO is strictly first come, first served.

Yes. First come, first served is to be expected

First come first served, but I've also noted that GW will generally provide overseas before UK once they hit made-to-order. Which might be a bias to getting the longest delivery time items out first since UK stuff will generally arrive in one or two days once shipped whilst overseas has to go by slower means

 Overread wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

GW normally estimates something around 3 months for MTO - end of year would be shockingly bad.

My last order took 6 months to the day.

Yes, placed an order for the Marauder Giant plus some River Trolls pretty much bang on 10 am Saturday and have also received a dispatch email today. Must admit that it was pretty similar with the Bretonnian MTO I placed in Jan/Feb earlier in the year. It is usually our friend's overseas that have to wait the longer advised times.

 Overread wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

GW normally estimates something around 3 months for MTO - end of year would be shockingly bad.

Any MTO I've order have always stated 180 days, no later. So around 6 months or end of October/beginning of November.

WarComm is showing off the new Skaven Jezzail today. Looks pretty spiffy, just needs the correct base for TOW.

 Bonegrinder wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

GW normally estimates something around 3 months for MTO - end of year would be shockingly bad.

Any MTO I've order have always stated 180 days, no later. So around 6 months or end of October/beginning of November.

And there I got mixing up the mto time with the marketing window time!

 SgtEeveell wrote:
WarComm is showing off the new Skaven Jezzail today. Looks pretty spiffy, just needs the correct base for TOW.

Yep its lovely - the stupidity of not cross selling astounds me....

I also got a dispatch notice for my Stone Trolls today. I might still order the River Trolls and Giant before the end of the week, but I can wait 180 days for them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:
WarComm is showing off the new Skaven Jezzail today. Looks pretty spiffy, just needs the correct base for TOW.

Yep its lovely - the stupidity of not cross selling astounds me....

The new clanrats look pretty good too. They are even almost the same size. But the poses are a lot more "dynamic" and probably won't rank up too well.

I've got around 80 older clanrats already though, so I'm good for those.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:
WarComm is showing off the new Skaven Jezzail today. Looks pretty spiffy, just needs the correct base for TOW.

Yep its lovely - the stupidity of not cross selling astounds me....

The new clanrats look pretty good too. They are even almost the same size. But the poses are a lot more "dynamic" and probably won't rank up too well.

I've got around 80 older clanrats already though, so I'm good for those.

If they are more dynamic, would it be possible to mix in the old more static ones in between for spacing purposes?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:
WarComm is showing off the new Skaven Jezzail today. Looks pretty spiffy, just needs the correct base for TOW.

Yep its lovely - the stupidity of not cross selling astounds me....

The new clanrats look pretty good too. They are even almost the same size. But the poses are a lot more "dynamic" and probably won't rank up too well.

I've got around 80 older clanrats already though, so I'm good for those.

If they are more dynamic, would it be possible to mix in the old more static ones in between for spacing purposes?

With the 25mm bases, almost assuredly.

That Skaven release is shaping up to be perfectly cross-compatible from what we've seen in the trailer and on WH Community. There has been no AoS-style unit overhaul yet.

 Bonegrinder wrote:


Any MTO I've order have always stated 180 days, no later. So around 6 months or end of October/beginning of November.

Curiously, my 'order processing' email for my Stone Trolls MTO said it will ship within 188 days, rather than the usual 180. I wonder if that's to allow for the upcoming UK warehouse closure?

Also, add me to the 'quietly shocked' basket at the surprisingly reasonable price for this round of MTO stuff, which is tempting me to buy more. Peace through War! Save through Spending!

I just received my Lady Élisse Duchaard and I'm starting to see why it took so long to release.

My copy has a lot of little pieces of the silicone mould stuck to it, and the overall quality of the resin casting isn't as high as most recent minis have been.

For whatever reason, I suspect they've had QC problems with this particular mini.

What you mean RoB, does the cast have gaps or soft details?

Yeah I really want to hear more as its one of the models I'm most excited about getting (though I missed the last order window so I'm waiting for the next casting round)

 Bonegrinder wrote:
What you mean RoB, does the cast have gaps or soft details?

A bit of both, and also a large number of bubbles. The casting gates are also in really awkward places which makes it harder than usual to remove them without damaging the mini. I've been finding small pieces of blue silicone embedded in the resin, which can't be a good sign for longevity of the moulds.

It feels like they've had difficulty getting this mini to "work" properly.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
I just received my Lady Élisse Duchaard and I'm starting to see why it took so long to release.

My copy has a lot of little pieces of the silicone mould stuck to it, and the overall quality of the resin casting isn't as high as most recent minis have been.

For whatever reason, I suspect they've had QC problems with this particular mini.

Finecast problems are back I guess.... no excuses for any of that.

Yeah that sounds like finecast problems not regular resin problems - at least it shouldn't be finecast

WAIT is it finecast --- please tell me its not finecast

It shouldn’t be finecast…

I saw someone’s trebuchet on Reddit earlier this week and one of the shield icons had a huge hole on it

I’ve only got the Black Orc big boss in the new resin and no issues whatsoever I was careful with assembly and didn’t even have to fill any gaps. I guess it depends on the mini and how many casts have been made already.

It's not Finecast, it's ForgeWorld. It's the same high quality resin all of my recent purchases have been made from, and they were great.

The problem, at least for me, seems to be specific to the design and geometry of this mini.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It's not Finecast, it's ForgeWorld. It's the same high quality resin all of my recent purchases have been made from, and they were great.

The problem, at least for me, seems to be specific to the design and geometry of this mini.

Perhaps it's why it took a while to get released. Still a shame though. Thankfully I have a metal Fay Enchantress (though sadly stuck in storage other side of the world) from back in the day. Still, enough pile of shame to keep me busy in the meantime.

My Troll Hag had a bit of blue silicone on it, but the cast was excellent. Nothing like the pain finecast was with its huge amount of sprue gates in awkward places and brittle resin.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It's not Finecast, it's ForgeWorld. It's the same high quality resin all of my recent purchases have been made from, and they were great.

The problem, at least for me, seems to be specific to the design and geometry of this mini.

So you believe it might be the sculpt itself and not the mould or casting that is the problem? In either case I'd bring it up with GWs customer service, send them pictures and hopefully they can send you a good replacement.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
So you believe it might be the sculpt itself and not the mould or casting that is the problem? In either case I'd bring it up with GWs customer service, send them pictures and hopefully they can send you a good replacement.

I think so. I've done DIY projects with silicone moulds and casting resins, and sometimes you just get specific shapes and details which are a pain in the butt to cast reliably. I think this mini might be one of those. If others have more luck with it that's great, but I saw someone on Reddit commenting that the fit of the parts wasn't great.

It's possible it took so long to release because they've tried everything and this was the best they could do.

That's interesting, I didn't know that.

Thanks for the warning I'll hold off buying for a while to see if they can fix the defects.

I got several Tomb King Resin models (2 scorpions, Giant, Casket, characters, etc) and I had zero issues...and my little bro got the orc boss on wyvern and also didn't have any problems. Wonder if it was just that model?

That's what I think, RtB believes the shape of the model gave GW some difficulty. DaveC got the Black Orc Big Boss with no problems and my own Troll Hag was great.

Garo posted a picture from Reddit of a Bret Trebuchet with a small gap in it, but that looks easy enough to fill with green stuff.

Despite being shown in promotional images last year, the Lady Élisse Duchaard components are all dated 2024. Every other new Bretonnian release has, to my recollection, been dated 2023.

A kit designed in 2023 would usually be dated 2023, so I think it has to presumed the kit has been modified more recently.

Production problems could certainly explain that.

That's a shame; she's definitely one of the outstanding releases of the range thus far, great sculpt.

Any chance the master for her was traditionally sculpted, so they’re having trouble parting her out for mould pieces? I remember old metal models used to suffer from that a lot.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Any chance the master for her was traditionally sculpted, so they’re having trouble parting her out for mould pieces? I remember old metal models used to suffer from that a lot.

I thought GW was fully 3D designed now. At least for plastics they are, FW could still be using some traditional sculpting, but I'd doubt it. I'd figure GW would want everything done digital today as just part of their normal product workflow.

that would be the problem here, if you use a design optimized for HIPS casting to make a model in classic resin casting, of course it would not work well
and as this one was one of the first more complex new models, they may not have thought about that first

not the first time the 3D printed master shown in promo pictures being different from the production model because they needed to adjust the sculpts (and I guess the designer themself does not know the casting process used when working on the model)

Thing is I'd have thought a model designed for plastics would print more easily with resin than the other way around. Resin can allow undercuts that HIPS can't do at all. So if anything if it were designed for plastic, or by a staffer used too plastics, then it should be easier to print.

Yes and no, if it is a 1 piece model, it would be that way.
But as GW makes puzzles out of their plastic models which is not possible that way with resin were you have less and larger parts and/or cannot split the model up in a certain way as glueing resin together is not as easy as plastic

the other problem is if you want to re-use the mould or not. destroying the silicone to remove the model makes other shapes possible but also increases the costs by a lot

 Overread wrote:
Thing is I'd have thought a model designed for plastics would print more easily with resin than the other way around. Resin can allow undercuts that HIPS can't do at all. So if anything if it were designed for plastic, or by a staffer used too plastics, then it should be easier to print.

That doesn't necessarily follow. Models designed for plastic are, more specifically, designed to be cut up into pieces that can be assembled into a frame layout, and it's the frame layout which needs to work well in terms of moulding. The same model will be cut up very differently if ultimately manufactured using some other process, like resin casting. So, no, a model designed for plastic won't necessarily produce a better 3D print, or be better suited to resin casting. The former depends on factors unique to 3D printing; the latter depends on the pieces into which it is cut up, and how easily mouldable and castable they are. If this particular model is proving difficult to cast reliably, that's unlucky but can happen occasionally – it doesn't indicate anything in particular about how it was designed (other than that issues with moulding it were not able to be corrected at that late stage).

Being a digital sculpt that ends up being a mould-ripper actually tracks pretty well. If the sculptor isn't used to backfilling for resin or metal moulds, there are all sorts of fun little 'fingers' that get made in the mesh where the robe doesn't quite meet the body or there is a gap between the bracer and the forearm. The amount of bootleg Star Wars Legion stls I have fixed for friends is a testament to that. In particular there was a Darth Maul that essentially had a candy shell for knees and lower legs because that area was mostly void. If you actually got a cast of that and then tried to lay it up in a mould for resin, the vacuum or pressure would for sure fill all those fingers and voids and you'd have all kinds of mould rips. You would think that once a master was made, the mould rips would solve themselves and whoever was making the masters would see the rips and backfill those areas, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are printing a new master each time they make a new production mould.

I will say this:

Lady Élisse Duchaard is every bit as beautiful a mini as it looked to be in the previews. And it's less fragile with fewer really delicate parts than many Forgeworld resin minis I've built.

But it takes work. And it really is an "expert" kit.

You can't just file off the mould lines and casting gates, there are areas where you almost have to carve or sculpt replacement detail because the casting gates have obliterated it.

My Stone Trolls arrived today. That was quick. (Ordered after lunch on Saturday.)

For comparison, in the Bretonnian MTO I didn't place my order until the last few days of the window, and it took two months to arrive.

I was surprised to find that the trolls in Set 2 are single-piece minis. I had assumed the heads were separate from the bodies, like Set 1, but apparently not.

I checked my old 90s catalogue and it seems legit--the only ones actually shown to have separate heads were the three sculpts in Set 1.

I'm not bothered at all (in fact it will save me some assembly work). But it's worth keeping in mind if you're planning to put River Troll heads on Stone Troll bodies for a classic Chaos Troll conversion. It would be pretty annoying to wait months for your MTO to arrive only to find that you bought the wrong set of Stone Trolls and now have to hack the heads off ...

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
I will say this:

Lady Élisse Duchaard is every bit as beautiful a mini as it looked to be in the previews. And it's less fragile with fewer really delicate parts than many Forgeworld resin minis I've built.

But it takes work. And it really is an "expert" kit.

You can't just file off the mould lines and casting gates, there are areas where you almost have to carve or sculpt replacement detail because the casting gates have obliterated it.

It is an amazing model. Possibly my favourite sculpt ever. I have to agree though, it's very much an expert model to put together. I also had to almost resculpt some parts after removing the excess materials.
In the end i didn't have much problems with gaps. The one thing that was difficult on that front were the two tail parts. There was a small gap between the two parts, but after painting it it is hardly noticeable.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
My Troll Hag had a bit of blue silicone on it, but the cast was excellent.

But the ones coming out of that mold after yours won't be

I see your point Black Fang, anyone who gets a little extra junk on the trunk of their Troll Hag has my own Hag to blame ?

@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

 Bonegrinder wrote:
I see your point Black Fang, anyone who gets a little extra junk on the trunk of their Troll Hag has my own Hag to blame ?

@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

Define 'amature'? You do need some amount of patience.The model is small so it is a bit fiddly. It's not for people who aren't prepared or able to take some time and to stop and think about the construction.
Other than that I would say it's very doable because for all it's faults, i find (Forgeworld)resin a very forgiving material when it comes to reshaping it, like hollowing out bits with excess material.

My golden standard against which i hold every model construction process I've done on GW kits is the old Finecast Mangler Squigs; for my money that is far and away the worst model that GW has ever produced and a rutted nightmare to construct well and keep upright. This doesn't come anywhere near that, at least as far as my particular model was concerned. The quality of resin kits tends to very greatly of course, so can only speak for my own kit.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

It's not complex, at least not to me. But it's frustrating because it shouldn't really be necessary. I feel like they've had problems getting the moulds to fill reliably (it can happen whether you're a tiny boutique company or a huge PLC), so they've been forced to put sprues and vents in places which really aren't ideal.

As JWh85 noted, there are parts like the tail which are a real pain to clean up and get to fit properly. The chances of removing the sprues from the tail pieces without needing to resculpt some of the tail hair is... not good.

Has anyone tried to make a complaint about this? If GW were to send a replacement in those cases, that could be a fine compromise.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

It's not complex, at least not to me. But it's frustrating because it shouldn't really be necessary. I feel like they've had problems getting the moulds to fill reliably (it can happen whether you're a tiny boutique company or a huge PLC), so they've been forced to put sprues and vents in places which really aren't ideal.

As JWh85 noted, there are parts like the tail which are a real pain to clean up and get to fit properly. The chances of removing the sprues from the tail pieces without needing to resculpt some of the tail hair is... not good.

Now that i think about it, the worst part of the model was that there was a bit bit of excess resin stretched along the cup in her hand. It was quite difficult te remove and as a result a but from the top of the cup broke of with the excess bit. That was a bit frustrating. As was the tail. Overall though it really isn't that bad. As RtB said, not really difficult at all. Don't let it be a deterrent to buy the model!

Honestly, I'm not sure replacements would be any better.

I really do think this is a problem with the design of this particular mini, and the only thing that could make it better is a redesign.

Is anyone aware of GW redesigning a mini *after* it has been released?

Maybe not really what you're thinking of and definitely not soon after release, but they did release new versions of old (2001-2003) FW Tau aircraft (Tiger Shark and Barracudea) around 2016, and they released a new version of the infamously huge Imperial Fists Tartaros Praetor in the last year or two.

Probably instances of lost/severely damaged molds.

Considering chaos dwarves will probably look as different from their fantasy version as the normal dwarves do now in old world -_- I'm going to wait for either ratmen, lizardmen or beastmen for whatever army I'm going to focus on.

I'm done hoping for reliving the good old days.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
Honestly, I'm not sure replacements would be any better.

I really do think this is a problem with the design of this particular mini, and the only thing that could make it better is a redesign.

Is anyone aware of GW redesigning a mini *after* it has been released?

The great beast of gorgoroth was redesigned after release as the beast itself just wouldn't fit together properly after the original release.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

It's not complex, at least not to me. But it's frustrating because it shouldn't really be necessary. I feel like they've had problems getting the moulds to fill reliably (it can happen whether you're a tiny boutique company or a huge PLC), so they've been forced to put sprues and vents in places which really aren't ideal.

As JWh85 noted, there are parts like the tail which are a real pain to clean up and get to fit properly. The chances of removing the sprues from the tail pieces without needing to resculpt some of the tail hair is... not good.

They need to hand it over to whoever has been parting out the newer Blood Bowl star players for resin, because they have all been fantastic to put together without sacrificing detail…

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:The great beast of gorgoroth was redesigned after release as the beast itself just wouldn't fit together properly after the original release.

Thanks, that is a really good example and sounds like it had a similar problem.

Mr_Rose wrote:They need to hand it over to whoever has been parting out the newer Blood Bowl star players for resin, because they have all been fantastic to put together without sacrificing detail…

I have two of the new resin Handmaidens, two of the resin Questing Knight Paladin, and also the two resin Standard Bearers. All are fantastic. Easy to clean up, good fit, etc. Brilliant minis. Maybe I was spoiled by how easy those are to put together, because Lady Élisse is just... not the same.

 Bonegrinder wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

GW normally estimates something around 3 months for MTO - end of year would be shockingly bad.

Any MTO I've order have always stated 180 days, no later. So around 6 months or end of October/beginning of November.

That's not same as what gw neccessarily estimates but more of worst case. If you don't know how long it might take better give late and have "got sooner than expected" than reverse

Havent heard many times 6 months actually taking but few. Imagine how they would feel if they had said 90 days...

Zenithfleet wrote:


For comparison, in the Bretonnian MTO I didn't place my order until the last few days of the window, and it took two months to arrive.

I'm still waiting to receive mine. I ordered min on Monday so day 3 of the made to order window and it's been more than 3 months. I've only ordered 2 items via made to order and both have taken 4+ months to arrive. I ordered Rogue Trader 10 minutes after it went online for sale and it still took just over 4 months. I don't have the luck to get stuff quickly and I think the US gets their items after the U.K. Just because it's easier to produce and ship things locally.

boyd wrote:

Zenithfleet wrote:


For comparison, in the Bretonnian MTO I didn't place my order until the last few days of the window, and it took two months to arrive.

I'm still waiting to receive mine. I ordered min on Monday so day 3 of the made to order window and it's been more than 3 months. I've only ordered 2 items via made to order and both have taken 4+ months to arrive. I ordered Rogue Trader 10 minutes after it went online for sale and it still took just over 4 months. I don't have the luck to get stuff quickly and I think the US gets their items after the U.K. Just because it's easier to produce and ship things locally.

Made to Order for printed items (books, the Cursed City expansion) I think are inevitably going to take longer – almost certainly what they do is wait until the MTO closes, then order a print run of the required size. With the miniature MTOs, it's obvious they have some stock ready to go at the start, so some orders are filled immediately while the others get filled gradually over the next few weeks and months.

How did you lucky fellows guys manage to purchase Elise Duchaard?

I'd sure like one, but since buying from GW isn't "the hobby" for me I haven't been able to purchase any of the things I wanted to.

They didn't forget the GW pre-order time and got there before they all vanished

Yeah. In the UK the pre-order window officially opens at 10:00am, but usually the new minis are actually up on the website by 9:55am.

I had Elisse ordered by 9:57am.

It's that simple. Be there early and order quickly.

It's as simple as being there before the product goes on sale, and getting lucky in being allowed to purchase one, which will then probably be poorly cast anyway. Hobbies!

It's pretty embarrassing for GW that their QC is so poor, given the massive prices they charge for individual minis.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
Yeah. In the UK the pre-order window officially opens at 10:00am, but usually the new minis are actually up on the website by 9:55am.

I had Elisse ordered by 9:57am.

It's that simple. Be there early and order quickly.

I still consider myself lucky that I was able to grab the Brettonian Lord with Great Weapon; he's been out of stock forever.

How was that model when you had it in your hands, Kid? I know it caught a lot of flak when it was revealed.

That’s a great paint job, looks phenomenal

 Dysartes wrote:
How was that model when you had it in your hands, Kid? I know it caught a lot of flak when it was revealed.

Rogue Hobbies on Youtube did a video to see if she could "redeem" that mini.
Turns out, she couldn't.

Dysartes wrote:How was that model when you had it in your hands, Kid? I know it caught a lot of flak when it was revealed.

Honestly, it was intimidating. I had him primed and put on my custom basing for a 2 weeks before deciding to tackle the paint job. I mean, I knew I wanted to do red, white, & blue for the one particular nation in my miniature-based fantasy webcomic. Once I finally got some base-coat colors down, he was a very relaxing, enjoyable project. I like that the character is a throwback to the sculpting style of when I got drawn into GW in the 90's. I didn't realize the sword arm would be a separate piece and I am very thankful it was. I was expecting a solid chunk of pewter with big areas that couldn't be undercut.

I can see some people being disappointed compared to the FW paladins, but for me it was like finding an old Games Day mini or like finding buried treasure.

nathan2004 wrote:That’s a great paint job, looks phenomenal

Thank you! He was fun. The hard part was choosing what colors to put where before starting.

I get that they didnt bother to release the Bretonnian footlord back when they sculpted him. Were you supposed to put him in a unit of peasant footmen? The insolence!

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I like that the character is a throwback to the sculpting style of when I got drawn into GW in the 90's. I didn't realize the sword arm would be a separate piece and I am very thankful it was. I was expecting a solid chunk of pewter with big areas that couldn't be undercut.

I can see some people being disappointed compared to the FW paladins, but for me it was like finding an old Games Day mini or like finding buried treasure.

That's exactly how I feel. The unreleased (now-released!) Lord is goofy and I love it for the goofiness.

I can see why some people *don't* like it, but I'm definitely not one of them.

 Fayric wrote:
I get that they didnt bother to release the Bretonnian footlord back when they sculpted him. Were you supposed to put him in a unit of peasant footmen? The insolence!

The prevailing theory is that he was supposed to be an event miniature but Games Day stopped being a thing then End Times effectively killed Bretonnia.

So he had been sitting on a shelf for like 12 years.

We don't need theories, we were told about it in the o original article announcing it:

“He was made in modelling putty with sculpting tools (dental tools). I had wanted to do a Lord on foot as all of our knight models were mounted. He was intended to be a Games Day exclusive miniature, but in the end, another of my models replaced him, the Exalted Hero of Chaos at Games Day 2009.”

Vorian wrote:
We don't need theories, we were told about it in the o original article announcing it:

“He was made in modelling putty with sculpting tools (dental tools). I had wanted to do a Lord on foot as all of our knight models were mounted. He was intended to be a Games Day exclusive miniature, but in the end, another of my models replaced him, the Exalted Hero of Chaos at Games Day 2009.”

I'm fairly sure when this was slated for release you could already use the Virtue of Empathy(?) to allow them to join a peasant unit on foot (as in TOW).

So, I just had an email from GW informing me that Lady Eisse Duchaard is back in stock. Great!

I immediately went to the site to order one, but it was already sold out.

Why is this model getting scalped so hard?


Edit: I just had another email from GW, half an hour after the previous one, again telling me that the model is back in stock.

So I immediately went to the site to check, unfortunately it's out of stock again

Edit#2 : I had a third "back in stock notification", this time I was able to buy

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
So, I just had an email from GW informing me that Lady Eisse Duchaard is back in stock. Great!

I immediately went to the site to order one, but it was already sold out.

Why is this model getting scalped so hard?


Edit: I just had another email from GW, half an hour after the previous one, again telling me that the model is back in stock.

So I immediately went to the site to check, unfortunately it's out of stock again

I had something similar happen with the reference cards couple weeks ago. I even contacted Support to find out what was going on; turns out it’s a glitch where the update notifications get sent out before the site actually updates, by like 12 hours or something. I just try again in a couple hours see how it goes.

And got her ordered too! Along with a bottle of paint for free postage

I'd like to apologise to everyone in advance for this ...

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
So, I just had an email from GW informing me that Lady Eisse Duchaard is back in stock. Great!

I immediately went to the site to order one, but it was already sold out.

Why is this model getting scalped so hard?


Edit: I just had another email from GW, half an hour after the previous one, again telling me that the model is back in stock.

So I immediately went to the site to check, unfortunately it's out of stock again

Edit#2 : I had a third "back in stock notification", this time I was able to buy

"Everyone said I was daft for not buying a Lady Elisse Duchaard the instant she went up on the site. But I got GW to send me an email, just to show 'em! That mini went out of stock. So I got a second email! That mini went out of stock. So I got a third email! That mini broke the mould, fell over and then went out of stock. But the fourth mini stayed in my basket. And that's what you're going to get, lad. She's beautiful, she's expensive, she's got huge ... tracts of silicone mould debris ..."

Casket is back in stock on the US webstore.

Marauder and Stone/River trolls I'm not seeing anymore on the US webstore...assuming that means they sold out of the stock they produced and aren't making anymore.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
So, I just had an email from GW informing me that Lady Eisse Duchaard is back in stock. Great!

I immediately went to the site to order one, but it was already sold out.

Why is this model getting scalped so hard?


Edit: I just had another email from GW, half an hour after the previous one, again telling me that the model is back in stock.

So I immediately went to the site to check, unfortunately it's out of stock again

Edit#2 : I had a third "back in stock notification", this time I was able to buy

Same here. Didn't trust the site to be completely up to date so just refreshed a few times after getting the stock notification and it showed as being available.

Zenithfleet wrote:
I'd like to apologise to everyone in advance for this ...

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
So, I just had an email from GW informing me that Lady Eisse Duchaard is back in stock. Great!

I immediately went to the site to order one, but it was already sold out.

Why is this model getting scalped so hard?


Edit: I just had another email from GW, half an hour after the previous one, again telling me that the model is back in stock.

So I immediately went to the site to check, unfortunately it's out of stock again

Edit#2 : I had a third "back in stock notification", this time I was able to buy

"Everyone said I was daft for not buying a Lady Elisse Duchaard the instant she went up on the site. But I got GW to send me an email, just to show 'em! That mini went out of stock. So I got a second email! That mini went out of stock. So I got a third email! That mini broke the mould, fell over and then went out of stock. But the fourth mini stayed in my basket. And that's what you're going to get, lad. She's beautiful, she's expensive, she's got huge ... tracts of silicone mould debris ..."

This just reads like rambling nonsense to me, lad

So, erm, two pro-wrestlers signed to AEW are doing a livestream of new AoS on GW’s Twitch Channel on Thursday.

This is just surreal to me ??

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, erm, two pro-wrestlers signed to AEW are doing a livestream of new AoS on GW’s Twitch Channel on Thursday.

This is just surreal to me ??

There's a decent overlap in the fandoms. GW also posted about Shayna Baszler(known for her Warhammer themed wrestling outfits) when she visited Nottingham HQ.

 nathan2004 wrote:

Marauder and Stone/River trolls I'm not seeing anymore on the US webstore...assuming that means they sold out of the stock they produced and aren't making anymore.

They were a limited time order ending today 13th May

All of these items will be Made to Order products available to order from 10am local time on Saturday the 4th of May until 8AM BST on Monday the 13th of May. They can take up to 180 days to ship.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, erm, two pro-wrestlers signed to AEW are doing a livestream of new AoS on GW’s Twitch Channel on Thursday.

This is just surreal to me ??

Weird (but very cool). Which ones?

Edit, never mind, I just read the article. Kip Sabian and Claudio

 nathan2004 wrote:
Marauder and Stone/River trolls I'm not seeing anymore on the US webstore...assuming that means they sold out of the stock they produced and aren't making anymore.

Or the MTO period they announced had ended.

You’ll be able to watch a special exhibition match of Spearhead between the AEW wrestlers Kip Sabian and Claudio Castagnoli, who will be playing as Skaven and Stormcast Eternals. This will be the first ever live game of Spearhead, and it’s sure to be an absolute treat.

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Marauder and Stone/River trolls I'm not seeing anymore on the US webstore...assuming that means they sold out of the stock they produced and aren't making anymore.

Or the MTO period they announced had ended.

Didn't realize it was that short, skimmed right over that reading it initially. Thank you!

Yeah MTO periods are short - 1-2 weeks are common. It's one reason I dislike them because they are very much FOMO because a good many MTO things never cycle back or if they do its years between cycles with no clear message if they will or won't return.

Books or models its a pain when there's a MTO that you miss out on because of finances; budgeting or just not being around or interested in the theme at that exact moment in time.

Was there a date mentioned for the dwarf release? My Grombrindal order apparently takes 190 days (lol), but what about the regular releases?

Yeah tbh I skipped the Trolls even though I was posting here about being interested in them and they were actually pretty reasonably priced, because I'm on paternity leave and there was a paperwork issue and the money didn't come in. Now, I have savings, not badly off at all or I wouldn't be considering stuff like this at all, but a luxury purchase with no income this month seemed irresponsible to me so I decided to give it a miss.
To be honest there's a belligerent part of me that just doesn't like FOMO stuff and if I feel that getting it's hooks into me, I'm pretty likely to just say no.

 Overread wrote:
Yeah MTO periods are short - 1-2 weeks are common. It's one reason I dislike them because they are very much FOMO because a good many MTO things never cycle back or if they do its years between cycles with no clear message if they will or won't return.

Aye, especially with the Old World sets there's really no precedent informing us of what to expect. Would imagine the recent sets won't be available for quite some time, with several more armies to see their (re-)releases first, but whether they'll regularly cycle in afterwards or won't ever come back is anyone's guess. (And GW have quite possibly not yet decided it themselves this far in advance either.)

I know what you mean about the Belligerent part when you know that you can "kind of" afford something MTO but really shouldn't. Or if its something like infantry where you could get one box easily enough but not enough to make a whole proper army/force from them.

Yeah any sniff of FOMO gets insta ban from my list. I don't need the sense of urgency in my hobby life, thank you sir.
Old world is an attention grab that aims many old collectors, nostalgia etc... adding FOMO yeah is not cool at all.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Old world is an attention grab that aims many old collectors, nostalgia etc... adding FOMO yeah is not cool at all.

I'd bet those Total War games have bought them some new blood too.

As for made to order, It would be nice if they would licence the models to another company kinda like they did with Armorcast back in the 90s, but with oop minis instead of large scale model concepts.

But I guess that means they couldn't reach unto their back pocket for a slow release week...
and they'd have to share

I have the opposite reaction to Made to Order. I much prefer it to GW's usual modern sales method for new releases.

With most of their new stuff, you have to be ready and waiting on the webstore at exactly the right second of the minute of the hour of the release day, or the item you want will sell out and you'll have to wait months for it to show up again, or else pay scalpers' prices. Especially since they seem to make a habit of under-producing so that they can be sure they'll sell through all their stock. It's not quite "queuing overnight in the rain waiting for the video game shop to open", but it's mentally stressful. I did it exactly once long ago (for Space Hulk 3rd edition) and vowed never to do it again.

But with Made to Order, you get a nice comfy span of about a week in which you can place an order at your leisure. The minis might take months to arrive, but there's no stock limit, so you're guaranteed a purchase if you so choose.

I knew I wanted Stone Trolls (having loved those minis for decades), but was on the fence about the Marauder Giant. The MTO window gave me time to mull it over.

By the standards of other companies it's still FOMO, but by GW standards it's practically civilised.


Also ...

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Zenithfleet wrote:
I'd like to apologise to everyone in advance for this ...

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
So, I just had an email from GW informing me that Lady Eisse Duchaard is back in stock. Great!

I immediately went to the site to order one, but it was already sold out.

Why is this model getting scalped so hard?


Edit: I just had another email from GW, half an hour after the previous one, again telling me that the model is back in stock.

So I immediately went to the site to check, unfortunately it's out of stock again

Edit#2 : I had a third "back in stock notification", this time I was able to buy

"Everyone said I was daft for not buying a Lady Elisse Duchaard the instant she went up on the site. But I got GW to send me an email, just to show 'em! That mini went out of stock. So I got a second email! That mini went out of stock. So I got a third email! That mini broke the mould, fell over and then went out of stock. But the fourth mini stayed in my basket. And that's what you're going to get, lad. She's beautiful, she's expensive, she's got huge ... tracts of silicone mould debris ..."

This just reads like rambling nonsense to me, lad

You're on a wargaming site, you're talking about a Bretonnian mini and you have a British flag in your profile. I just assumed you'd get the reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82CqjaDKmA

Zenithfleet wrote:

But with Made to Order, you get a nice comfy span of about a week in which you can place an order at your leisure. The minis might take months to arrive, but there's no stock limit, so you're guaranteed a purchase if you so choose.

Not entirely true. Mostly true, but not quite.

The Morathi mini made to order was pulled early around mid week, and they would not return the model for sale on the MTO after that. Not everyone that had already ordered received it either.

If you order early you tend to get yours quicker as they tend to have limited stock cast up at start anyway. This means if you have an issue with a model like it doesn't arrive or its miscast/mispacked then you have a chance of them replacing it within the MTO window. Outside the MTO window they will often just refund. People have recently reported the Bretonnian MTO having gone missing or not being sent and having been refunded as GW won't recast them.

They missed a MTO book run of mine and it was only by luck that they found a set of books in warhammer world and were able to send them out three months outside of the due date of the run.

Their MTOs are just as unreliable as their other items, it just has a more unique sales pitch than regular items. (As in... its removed from the webstore after a week, rather than languishing as a 'always out of stock' item in the old world section forever more.)

The morathi situation is not common - the mould broke and GW didn't have means/resources to invest to restore the model so it got pulled from sale.

 Overread wrote:
The morathi situation is not common - the mould broke and GW didn't have means/resources to invest to restore the model so it got pulled from sale.

GW Dont have means/resources?

Presumably the master was lost or damaged, so they couldn't make a new mould easily.

Exactly, if the master is damaged or lost they'd have to remake the model. Meanwhile if the mould broke so fully then there is a cost attached to that and that cost might have been more than GW wanted ot invest for the potential profit of one MTO run.

Zenithfleet wrote:

You're on a wargaming site, you're talking about a Bretonnian mini and you have a British flag in your profile. I just assumed you'd get the reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82CqjaDKmA

Oof, my bad, sorry. I was never into Monty Python

 Overread wrote:
Exactly, if the master is damaged or lost they'd have to remake the model. Meanwhile if the mould broke so fully then there is a cost attached to that and that cost might have been more than GW wanted ot invest for the potential profit of one MTO run.

It usually wouldn't be quite that severe. The 'master' usually refers to the master mould or master castings, rather than the original master model (which GW is very much less likely to still have in their possession anyway – long ago, designers used to keep them, as evidenced by occasional private sales, and many would have been damaged in the original mould-making process anyway). What happens is that the original master model (or 'green') is used to make a master mould. That is used to make a number of master castings, and the masting castings are used to make a production mould, before being stored away. When the production mould breaks, the master castings are used to make a new production mould. If the master castings are lost or damaged, the master mould is used to make more master castings. Master castings can also be used to make a new (second generation) master mould. There will be some loss of fidelity over the course of this process but it's minimal, since the master moulds and master castings are used a minimal number of times.

With Morathi, it was most likely the production mould which broke. It's probably the case that it can be remade, but perhaps not easily or quickly if the master castings were stored in a deep archive, possibly off-site, or in poorly organised storage, where they would be difficult to find. Some of the WarCom articles about the Old World Made to Orders suggest this is the case, so GW perhaps just wasn't confident they could find the master castings, or master mould, and make a new production mould and then resume production within the time frame for the Made to Order window. Making new moulds would once have been routine for GW but they make barely any models in metal nowadays, so capacity for the mould-making part of the process is probably pretty low.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Zenithfleet wrote:

You're on a wargaming site, you're talking about a Bretonnian mini and you have a British flag in your profile. I just assumed you'd get the reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82CqjaDKmA

Oof, my bad, sorry. I was never into Monty Python

"We've found a witch! May we burn them?"

So I got my Lady Elisse and first thoughts

1) The resin feels slightly different. Firmer, smoother and closer to what I've experienced with Creature Caster resin than some earlier FW resins. This is a subtle change but it feels different.

2) I've looked the parts over and I don't see ANY rubber mould parts or anything on the model. I can't see any degraded details either - it all honestly looks really well cast.

3) The only area I'd look down on is that the gating appears a little wild - some very thick gates here and there. There's also that standard thin layer of resin here and there that's easy to clean off



Honestly looks well cast, though I've not got to full cleanup and assembly stage.

 Overread wrote:
So I got my Lady Elisse and first thoughts

1) The resin feels slightly different. Firmer, smoother and closer to what I've experienced with Creature Caster resin than some earlier FW resins. This is a subtle change but it feels different.

2) I've looked the parts over and I don't see ANY rubber mould parts or anything on the model. I can't see any degraded details either - it all honestly looks really well cast.

3) The only area I'd look down on is that the gating appears a little wild - some very thick gates here and there. There's also that standard thin layer of resin here and there that's easy to clean off



Honestly looks well cast, though I've not got to full cleanup and assembly stage.

This is reassuring, thanks for the insight. I've steered clear of resin minis for quite a while now as I've found a happy place with HIPS and various Tamiya cements to bodge my models together. Any recommendations for glues that work well with resins these days? Cheers!

Any superglue should do the trick.

Just be sure to score the join surfaces with a blade tip/scalpel. The scoring increases the bond strength and also makes the supeglue go tacky and hold parts together very fast.

Otherwise if its two really flat surfaces that bond it takes a good while for the superglue to hold on.

Note you do still make sure the join surfaces fit as smooth and flush as possible, then score them.

 Overread wrote:
So I got my Lady Elisse and first thoughts

1) The resin feels slightly different. Firmer, smoother and closer to what I've experienced with Creature Caster resin than some earlier FW resins. This is a subtle change but it feels different.

2) I've looked the parts over and I don't see ANY rubber mould parts or anything on the model. I can't see any degraded details either - it all honestly looks really well cast.

3) The only area I'd look down on is that the gating appears a little wild - some very thick gates here and there. There's also that standard thin layer of resin here and there that's easy to clean off



Honestly looks well cast, though I've not got to full cleanup and assembly stage.

I'm glad yours is okay.

My biggest complaint by far was the size and position of the casting gates; if you had to pick the WORST positions for a casting gate, this mini has one in pretty much every single one of those positions. I can laugh about it now, and the mini is fantastic, but it made me want to tear my hair out.

Yeah one hoof of mine has got a clipped hoof from the cleanup - easy to fix - but I agree huge gates.

Though not the worst - I reserve that right now for some of the Dropfleet/zone models (and I really hate typing that as I think they've fantastic designs, but yeah their casting is questionable - as is some design choices like putting lots of ridges and spines on the mould line!

The AoS Skaven preview( pre-preview?) is up, and I have to say they look pretty damn good. The Warlock Engineer and the Jezzails are particularly tasty.

Just about everything could work for TOW, straight up. Use the Ratling Warp Blaster as a Warp Lightning Cannon. The only thing that doesn't have at least a "counts as" is the Warlord on Gnaw-beast. No cavalry mounts for Skaven. Although, ISTR that in one of the Skaven Army books there was an option for mutated giant rat, alongside the litter and Rat Ogre mounts.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/17/drown-the-mortal-realms-in-the-skaventide-gnawing-through-to-newaos/

I just wonder if they are going to sell the forces separately as well. I really don't have any interest in playing AoS.

Absolutely. They are surprisingly restrained and mostly faithful recreations of the old designs. I'll definitely put them on squares.

edit: oops wrong thread

I wonder how many TOW players will hunt for Skaven part of that new AoS box?

 BertBert wrote:
Absolutely. They are surprisingly restrained and mostly faithful recreations of the old designs. I'll definitely put them on squares.

Even GW is wise enough to know not to mess with perfection! (And to finally update severe imperfection, RE: Rat Ogres. )

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
Absolutely. They are surprisingly restrained and mostly faithful recreations of the old designs. I'll definitely put them on squares.

Even GW is wise enough to know not to mess with perfection! (And to finally update severe imperfection, RE: Rat Ogres. )

The two rat ogres from island of blood at least were nice

When is the next army expected? I was really hoping to have Dwarfs in hand by start of July.

O&G preview was 20th Jan and pre order was 23rd March

Dwarfs we're previewed 21st March, so I would guess pre order is due any weekend now.

I wonder will they now wait until the price increase in June has come into effect.

I really hope they will allow full Slayer army with Ungrim. Ofc, old slayer models are ugly as hell, but there are way better replacements.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I wonder how many TOW players will hunt for Skaven part of that new AoS box?

A lot, probably, it's 1000 points for ToW on the skaven side if you call the new artillery piece a warp lightning cannon, two boxes and you have an army.

Mounted character is the only thing that's tricky, could be unit filler or maybe take the rider off and call it a hellpit.

Heck I'll grab the Skaven half for Kings of War.

 Del Mingus wrote:
I wonder will they now wait until the price increase in June has come into effect.

In the past GW wasn't shy about rolling upcoming price hikes into new releases as early as two months before the date of the general increase. This year's increase has been announced and is imminent. It shouldn't figure into when Dwarfs are released. If they come before June 10, they'll just be more expensive a week or two earlier than the rest of GW's catalogue.

scarletsquig wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I wonder how many TOW players will hunt for Skaven part of that new AoS box?

A lot, probably, it's 1000 points for ToW on the skaven side if you call the new artillery piece a warp lightning cannon, two boxes and you have an army.

Mounted character is the only thing that's tricky, could be unit filler or maybe take the rider off and call it a hellpit.

There’s a chance it could be proxied as that old fw giant rat mount too. Though I doubt it has rules now

 GaroRobe wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I wonder how many TOW players will hunt for Skaven part of that new AoS box?

A lot, probably, it's 1000 points for ToW on the skaven side if you call the new artillery piece a warp lightning cannon, two boxes and you have an army.

Mounted character is the only thing that's tricky, could be unit filler or maybe take the rider off and call it a hellpit.

There’s a chance it could be proxied as that old fw giant rat mount too. Though I doubt it has rules now

It doesn't have rules sadly, otherwise I think a lot of people would do exactly that.

Any guesses to what old models they might do MTO for in the future? There's been some surprises (at least to me), so maybe there's going to be some rarities or unusual things, like spear dwarfs?

I'm absolutely sure that they've spent some time digging through the archives to pick out a few oddities alongside the classic gems. MTO is already usually a little niche or indulgent, and The Old World iisn't going to make it any less so.

But as for actual, solid guesses? I dunno. It's easier to just wishlist things because it kinda seems like any well-liked metal miniature from before the turn of the millenium has at least some odds.

I'm rather hoping we might see a release of the Empire War Wagon, either MTO or otherwise.

Empire's going to be an interesting release as is with at least 3 subfactions to do Armies of Infamy for. I can see them being last as they'll most likely be the largest release of the setting.

pgmason wrote:
I'm rather hoping we might see a release of the Empire War Wagon, either MTO or otherwise.

I remember seeing it in some RPG magazine when wargaming was a new word for me. It was a truly great miniature.

I can imagine they MTO some empire engineers. There was a plastic guy with rifle, but as I remember they had some fun metal guys with pistols and whatnot. I guess they wont do the crazy engineer on mechanical steed, because he dont have rules in the book.

Also, we probably see some grand masters of the knightly order in MTO, but perhaps they will be part of the actual lineup. I can imagine that a grand master would also be a cool thing to see updated as a new FW model.

the only interesting one would be to have the classic metal knight for the 4 orders

 Fayric wrote:
I guess they wont do the crazy engineer on mechanical steed, because he dont have rules in the book.

If there's a Nuln army in the Arcane Journal, I guess there's a chance he could be repurposed as a special character?

Personally I hope we see the bear mascot in the Empire MTO. Love that silly little thing

 Platuan4th wrote:
Empire's going to be an interesting release as is with at least 3 subfactions to do Armies of Infamy for. I can see them being last as they'll most likely be the largest release of the setting.

They may not cover those subfactions in the arcane journal as they are tied to specific narrative, whereas all the arcane journal factions have been basically generic themes.

With any luck we’ll get some of those gorgeous Teutogen Guard re-released. Permanently. Not a MTO.

At one point GW asked people what they want to see in an Order (as in the GA) m2o and Teutogen Guard came out on top, but GW never did that m2o. I wonder why?

They look like they would be mold shredders. They could be so labor-intensive that they aren't worth doing compared to everything else.

Maybe not worth the maintenance for an MtO, but maybe as a fully returned SKU

The lack of Kislev and the presence of Warrior Priests of Ulric should almost guarantee that Middenheim are one of the armies of infamy

 Dysartes wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I guess they wont do the crazy engineer on mechanical steed, because he dont have rules in the book.

If there's a Nuln army in the Arcane Journal, I guess there's a chance he could be repurposed as a special character?

Given that we don't know how old Elspeth is - be glorious to have her model back....

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I guess they wont do the crazy engineer on mechanical steed, because he dont have rules in the book.

If there's a Nuln army in the Arcane Journal, I guess there's a chance he could be repurposed as a special character?

Given that we don't know how old Elspeth is - be glorious to have her model back....

The Tamurkhan book mentions her association with Nuln stretches back three generations.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I guess they wont do the crazy engineer on mechanical steed, because he dont have rules in the book.

If there's a Nuln army in the Arcane Journal, I guess there's a chance he could be repurposed as a special character?

Given that we don't know how old Elspeth is - be glorious to have her model back....

The Tamurkhan book mentions her association with Nuln stretches back three generations.

Yep but she might be older - and so be around for the period of the Old World

Elspeth is noted to be a student of the Colleges of Magic, which are post-Old World. As it stands she is not appropriate for the setting.
Of.course they could just retcon her.

I was really hoping to find someone who was unloading the tomb Kings box with the exception of that croco dragon and the book. I cannot find anyone with that sort of auction / sales threat available so I'm left to try to part out the parts I don't want. How hard will it be for me to sell the book and the Croco dragon?

 Just Tony wrote:
I was really hoping to find someone who was unloading the tomb Kings box with the exception of that croco dragon and the book. I cannot find anyone with that sort of auction / sales threat available so I'm left to try to part out the parts I don't want. How hard will it be for me to sell the book and the Croco dragon?

Book "might" be trickier since big fans will already have it. But throw enough of a decent discount on it and chances are someone will bite.

Crocodragon might well sell easily with discount from retail. Plenty of people might whine about it but they still like the model (or want the dragon lower half for a discount price)

Looks like the Ravening Hordes and Forces of Fantasy are finally back in stock on the US Webstore

At this point I am really hoping for the Dwarf Arcane Journal to be given a bloody release date

As am I, I'd really like to have a new box of Miners painted up for an event at the end of July.

I'm still somewhere between surprised and unsurprised that they didn't give Grombrindal TOW rules in WD500, given he's a known character in the Old World.

Then again, to use HBMC's turn of phrase, GW never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm still somewhere between surprised and unsurprised that they didn't give Grombrindal TOW rules in WD500, given he's a known character in the Old World.

Then again, to use HBMC's turn of phrase, GW never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...

GW just too scared to give rules out to a model on a round base for a square based rules set.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm still somewhere between surprised and unsurprised that they didn't give Grombrindal TOW rules in WD500, given he's a known character in the Old World.

Then again, to use HBMC's turn of phrase, GW never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...

GW just too scared to give rules out to a model on a round base for a square based rules set.

Dumb Dumb Dumbty Dumb

Yeah they miss out so much on stuff like this

Well, in that case, Imma put Grombrindal on a square base! Just let GW try and stop me!

 godswildcard wrote:
Well, in that case, Imma put Grombrindal on a square base! Just let GW try and stop me!

You and literally ever TOW Dwarf player.

Wil make him a dwarven lord, the same as the other 3 i have

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm still somewhere between surprised and unsurprised that they didn't give Grombrindal TOW rules in WD500, given he's a known character in the Old World.

Then again, to use HBMC's turn of phrase, GW never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...

Clearly, their plan is to make piles of cash from a MTO of one of the classic White Dwarf models.

 godswildcard wrote:
Well, in that case, Imma put Grombrindal on a square base! Just let GW try and stop me!

They won't. Nor care.

So are we now expecting Dwarves later in the fall? They usually slow down releases for an new edition of AOS. They have at least 20 kits to release for Stormbois and Skaven to come out.

I'm honestly stunned dwarves haven't released yet

I think I can go max one more week without seeing dorf preorders before I have to rejig my tourney list.

The O&G books went on preorder on 23/03 and at the 1/qtr release rate that gives two weeks before the next preorder slot is “overdue” so I doubt we’ll see anything this week, with previews starting next week i.e. the 16th.

To me it really feels like some parts of the company are trying to get the game to tank though. I can't remember the last time an article about the game went up on community and at the last big reveal show they showed absolutely nothing. Apart from the dwarfs, which have been previewed months ago now, we are also still missing Ogdruz.

It might just be me, but it feels like HH and LI are receiving much more attention.

Last week i was in an official GW store for the first time in years. I spoke with an employee about how enthusiastic i was about the return of warhammer but that i was a bit saddened about the difficulty i was having getting the models for it. He was really gruff and had an 'just be grateful you can get models at al' attitude.

JWh85 wrote:
To me it really feels like some parts of the company are trying to get the game to tank though. I can't remember the last time an article about the game went up on community and at the last big reveal show they showed absolutely nothing. Apart from the dwarfs, which have been previewed months ago now, we are also still missing Ogdruz.

It might just be me, but it feels like HH and LI are receiving much more attention.

Both games are part of 40k. 40k is more popular. Ergo more time is spent on them.

I don't think GW wants the game to tank, if anything it doing so well has likely been an unexpected boon.

I do think GW as a firm is suffering with its success - ergo that staffer is likely getting a LOT of complaints about missing models and customers who can't get what they want and its all out of his hands as a manager at a local store.

And he's not alone; overseas especially seems to suffer a lot of stock shortfalls on popular stuff and have done so for a fairly longish time.

Pausing ToW marketing while the new edition of AoS is imminent makes good sense tbh.

I don't think GW have much choice when it comes to how they handle TOW, they only can make minis so fast. Some people just got overhyped on what the timetable would be and forgot reality. This is a company that couldn't keep up with their releases BEFORE The Old World came out, the idea they were going to do an army every month and Cathay and Kislev too was always silly. I figured it was going to be about one army a quarter, assuming production delays don't slow it down even more.

I don't think the quarterly release of armies is the problem; that was pretty much a given when they announced they would release the 9 armies over a two year period.

I just think that the game deserves some more attention overal from gw (some articles on community seem low-hanging fruit for example) after such a succesful release of the game.

Instead we hear absolutely nothing from them about the game for two months.

Or incorporating Larp'ing at events for example

 frankelee wrote:
I don't think GW have much choice when it comes to how they handle TOW, they only can make minis so fast. Some people just got overhyped on what the timetable would be and forgot reality. This is a company that couldn't keep up with their releases BEFORE The Old World came out, the idea they were going to do an army every month and Cathay and Kislev too was always silly. I figured it was going to be about one army a quarter, assuming production delays don't slow it down even more.

all this is true but that is the choice GW made
there is not outer force that took the choice away but GW decided how many resources each game gets and how many new games they want to launch at the same time

doing LI and TOW the same time 40k and AoS get a new Edition instead of the "empty" year was a choice they made and the current situation is the result of that choice and they could have made any other choice as well (like not doing LI now, or doing TOW next year)

question now is, as they made a choice to have the side games now what are they planning for next year as main release.

MaxT wrote:
Pausing ToW marketing while the new edition of AoS is imminent makes good sense tbh.

Unless you're a customer of ToW and care nothing for AoS.

For GW however, I expect there to be some instruction sayin that a month prior to and a few months after, there is to be no ToW releases because of the fanfare of AoS4. I'm sure GW would hate for an AoS mum purchaser to accidentally purchase a ToW product.

Honestly, I think people need to be reminded that they should be careful with what they wish for. GW have a proven track record of meddling too much with their systems and it makes their games at times a bit of a chore to keep up with.

So, their inactivity towards TOW is a blessing in disguise. The game we have works, we have rules for all the factions. If people want models, look to the second hand market, or third party alternatives to GW models.

Sure a battle report or article would be nice, but let us be realistic here, TOW is not something GW are planning to provide the same level of support as say AoS, or even KT. It is very low down on GW's list of priorities.

Low down doesn't really match with releasing 3 full armies in a few months and a plan to have almost an entire full major game's worth of product in 1-1.5 years. Yes many are older sculpts, but that's still a huge amount of product being newly added to the release schedule all at once.

TWO is possibly GW's most major project after the AoS new edition in terms of how much material gets added to the production and distribution pipeline in one go.

JWh85 wrote:
I don't think the quarterly release of armies is the problem; that was pretty much a given when they announced they would release the 9 armies over a two year period.

I just think that the game deserves some more attention overal from gw (some articles on community seem low-hanging fruit for example) after such a succesful release of the game.

Instead we hear absolutely nothing from them about the game for two months.

Maybe they're afraid 20 year old dwarf models will overshadow the entire AoS 4th ed release.

 Daba wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
I don't think the quarterly release of armies is the problem; that was pretty much a given when they announced they would release the 9 armies over a two year period.

I just think that the game deserves some more attention overal from gw (some articles on community seem low-hanging fruit for example) after such a succesful release of the game.

Instead we hear absolutely nothing from them about the game for two months.

Maybe they're afraid 20 year old dwarf models will overshadow the entire AoS 4th ed release.

I doubt it. I'm not a big fan of AoS, and the Sigmarines don't do anything for me, but those new Skaven models are pretty freakin' sweet.

 Daba wrote:

Maybe they're afraid 20 year old dwarf models will overshadow the entire AoS 4th ed release.

My personal opinion, but unless you're talking about the newer kits, the old Dwarf Warriors/Thundered/Quarrelers weren't their best work, even when they were newly released. So I'm not so confident that is the reason...

Damon.

If we are talking about these dwarves, they were absolutely the best ones. Really good kit and a nice art style, did not particularly like the follow up kit in 7th.

Again some HH and LI additions this week. It's really beginning to feel to me like they don't really care about this game. Apart from the dwarfs, we still don't have Ogdruz somehow. They could have easily released him by now. The game really seems to be on the bottom of the barrel as far as GW is concerned.

Well, don't expect an announcement next week, either, since that will be announcing the pre-orders for Age of Sigmar 4.

 Olthannon wrote:



If we are talking about these dwarves, they were absolutely the best ones. Really good kit and a nice art style, did not particularly like the follow up kit in 7th.

I agree, I like these a bit better than their successors. Except for the ham-hands (an issue with 6e plastics), & no positive mounting stud for shields. That being said, based on all the photos seen so far, we're not getting these guys. It would be nice to see them as a follow-up release, however.

Damon.

The back of the Dwarves AJ has been shown.

No Slayer army

Only Royal Clans & Engineers Exp. Forces...

SU-152 wrote:
The back of the Dwarves AJ has been shown.

No Slayer army

Only Royal Clans & Engineers Exp. Forces...

Slayers - er Fyreslayers - are an AoS army

Honestly whilst that sounds daft it could well be the marketing/management/market separation choice. Or just a reflection that they'll only have one or two slayer elite units instead of whole armies

chaos0xomega wrote:
I'm honestly stunned dwarves haven't released yet

Makes absolutely no sense to release them in the middle of the AOS4 blitz. As others have said I would expect them out very shortly after and we'll then probably get a compressed wait for the next army, so TOW can catch up on it's holding position.

Yes, that makes sense, but what's the excuse for not having released them 2-3 months ago? The game hasn't had any releases since what, March? They could have put dwarves out in April or may without issue.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, that makes sense, but what's the excuse for not having released them 2-3 months ago? The game hasn't had any releases since what, March? They could have put dwarves out in April or may without issue.

The last TOW release was May 5th: Remaining kits for Tomb Kings, Bretonnia and O&G (but not the new resin Orc character). The dice set for Dwarfs was leaked on 3rd January, and Dwarfs were previewed on 21st March.

I've seen a few people speculate that GW never planned on releasing Dwarfs until after AoS 4th, but if that's the case...previewing them 3 months in advance seems daft, especially since TOW has received only four(!) articles after the preview, the last on the 19th April.

Hopefully once Dwarfs are released they can regain momentum and quell the belief (however misguided it is) that GW don't care about TOW.

I've never seen such a bad rollout of a new product in my life.

It's not just the product releases, it's everything.

I get that the game is not their top priority, which might be it's saving grace as less attention from GW is often great where rules are concerned. But come on! Two months without any article on the mothership, almost the only game without any new things during the last preview show...

In one of the last articles they said 'It's safe to say Warhammer The Old World is here to stay!'
because of its big success, only to follow that news up with...absolute radio silence for about two and a half months.

Almost everything about the release of this game apart from the quality of the product itself so far had me raising my eyebrow. I.O.W. the rules and the game itself seem great, but the marketing is beyond bad. It feel somewhat schizofrenic; as if the developers do their best to make it a loveletter to warhammer, but the marketing department doesn't want it to succeed. Maybe there is more truth to the stories about the animosity between FW and Games Workshop/Citadel than i thought.

Pfft, try having Middle-Earth as one of your games, then you can complain.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Pfft, try having Middle-Earth as one of your games, then you can complain.

Very true, though that game is 20 years old and did receive quite a lot of attention during at least its first 3 or 4 years (it even had its own magazine at one point!)

And fantasy had nearly 30. You need to relax and remember old world has had 3 full armies in a sixth month period. That's a release rate even 40k couldn't dream of.

Young Thorgrim and Burlok

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
And fantasy had nearly 30. You need to relax and remember old world has had 3 full armies in a sixth month period. That's a release rate even 40k couldn't dream of.

Oh I'm quite relaxed. O&G and Bretonnia are my armies so I'm set.

You are being disengenuous though: they made it very clear that this a new game, not Warhammer Fantasy (it's still Fantasy though! ). Also, while they released 3 armies most of those are just re-releases of old models, a small number of which have been remastered and an even smaller number of the released models are actually new designs.

So though you're right, there are a few sidenotes.

All these "buts" are all pretty irrelevant. Thats still a massive release over a short period and people need to learn some patience.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
And fantasy had nearly 30. You need to relax and remember old world has had 3 full armies in a sixth month period. That's a release rate even 40k couldn't dream of.

Wut? 40k has had 7 codexes released in the past 6 months.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
And fantasy had nearly 30. You need to relax and remember old world has had 3 full armies in a sixth month period. That's a release rate even 40k couldn't dream of.

Wut? 40k has had 7 codexes released in the past 6 months.

Come on now, you know better than that. Codices with a majority of one pity hero are not an equivalent of three full army releases.

I agree with both of you in a way.
And all jokes aside i agree with Gideon that 3 armies in half a year is a normal pace. (Though technically one of only two new models for O&G still hasn't been released, which i find disappointing).

I still think the coverage the game gets overal is very sub par and weird for a new release that has proven to be quite popular. In my eyes the pr around the game has been a big mess from the beginning

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, that makes sense, but what's the excuse for not having released them 2-3 months ago? The game hasn't had any releases since what, March? They could have put dwarves out in April or may without issue.

Gotta have that authentic WHFB release feel where it is years between army updates and some armies get skipped between editions!

People don’t know they were born, in my day you might have had 1 release per edition, which were 5 years apart

MaxT wrote:
People don’t know they were born, in my day you might have had 1 release per edition, which were 5 years apart

Meanwhile Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle recall skipping entire editions! Not even a book let alone a model!

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
And fantasy had nearly 30. You need to relax and remember old world has had 3 full armies in a sixth month period. That's a release rate even 40k couldn't dream of.

Wut? 40k has had 7 codexes released in the past 6 months.

Come on now, you know better than that. Codices with a majority of one pity hero are not an equivalent of three full army releases.

Except they kind of are. Every edition each army gets reboxed/repackaged. There's not much difference between that and the old wprld releases - they're 20 year old kits in new boxes, it's not like HH where GW is launching new armies w a dozen new plastic kits.

And even ignoring that, in the past 6 months we've had Tau and Dark Angels with a half dozen new kits a piece to go with their new books

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
And fantasy had nearly 30. You need to relax and remember old world has had 3 full armies in a sixth month period. That's a release rate even 40k couldn't dream of.

Wut? 40k has had 7 codexes released in the past 6 months.

Come on now, you know better than that. Codices with a majority of one pity hero are not an equivalent of three full army releases.

Except they kind of are. Every edition each army gets reboxed/repackaged. There's not much difference between that and the old wprld releases - they're 20 year old kits in new boxes, it's not like HH where GW is launching new armies w a dozen new plastic kits.

And even ignoring that, in the past 6 months we've had Tau and Dark Angels with a half dozen new kits a piece to go with their new books

An army already in production doesn't have to have any additional slots for production. Sure the run up to a codex release they likely DO get a bunch of extra general slots set aside for that purpose. But that's the general normal running of things now (GW has been doing regular codex updates for a long while now). In addition the new boxes are just a new shipment from China - the only extra work is likely sending the intern to the shredding room to shred any old stock boxes.


Adding a whole Warhammer Old World army is way different. First up its a big chunk of new models being added to the production pipleline all in one go or with only a few weeks to break things up. That's a big amount of new material to schedule and slot into the release system. Everything for it is new and additional workload being built into the company. That army now requires a big injection of resources followed by regular restock production slots. It's not normal running its in addition to normal running until its part of the flowing system.

That also ignores any quality control aspects such as checking moulds and castings to make sure that mass production hasn't created issues of its own in the workflow.

Working in manufacturing as I do, I have to tell you that there is absolutely zero difference between releasing a TOW faction (metal kits notwithstanding) or a new codex release for 40k. The only extra step for TOW is resurfacing the old molds. The production planning, workflow, capacity and utilization impact, etc is all the same. The fact that it's product that they weren't producing before doesn't really change that unless it requires new production tooling - that's where the resource investment actually occurs. Likewise the fact that 40k stuff is in pipeline/rotation already and TOW is being added to it doesn't change much either - GW has been steadily growing their capacity for some time, likewise removing old products from production. If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

Maybe a stupid question, but do we know why there haven't been any restocks of TOW product? Nearly everything is out of stock on GW's website. This is almost like the early weeks of Disney Lorcana, where it was hard to even find product at all in stores anywhere. I recently acquired a Tomb Kings army and I need some Tomb Guard or maybe some Necropolis Knights and I can't find them.

As usual, demand is exceeding their ability to manufacture

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but do we know why there haven't been any restocks of TOW product? Nearly everything is out of stock on GW's website. This is almost like the early weeks of Disney Lorcana, where it was hard to even find product at all in stores anywhere. I recently acquired a Tomb Kings army and I need some Tomb Guard or maybe some Necropolis Knights and I can't find them.

I'm sure a significant amount of their manufacturing capacity went toward Sakventide. And, hopefully, they're ramping up for the release of Dwarves.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Working in manufacturing as I do, I have to tell you that there is absolutely zero difference between releasing a TOW faction (metal kits notwithstanding) or a new codex release for 40k. The only extra step for TOW is resurfacing the old molds. The production planning, workflow, capacity and utilization impact, etc is all the same. The fact that it's product that they weren't producing before doesn't really change that unless it requires new production tooling - that's where the resource investment actually occurs. Likewise the fact that 40k stuff is in pipeline/rotation already and TOW is being added to it doesn't change much either - GW has been steadily growing their capacity for some time, likewise removing old products from production. If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

I'm not saying that TOW models are different from what GW already releases, just that its a question of volume.
Releasing 1 codex is an entirely different production lineup to releasing multiple new kits, with new SKUs, new picking and packing, new contents and everything.

Yes I fully agree, GW is only doing this because they believe they have capacity to do so without it impacting their regular operations; but even then they have limits on production. If you've got a bit TOW army that you have to stock up and build up for release AND you've got a mammoth (not as big as 40K Leviathan but still big) AoS new edition to stock up on and launch then surely you can see that the production slots might run out. That the two major releases can't happen in close order - heck the week or two before we got the pre-order were slightly lighter on releases from GW and then we've a 2 week pre-order window as well.

I'm agreeing that TOW armies slot into the system, but simply noting that as they are a big chunky addition all in one go, they have to be more spread out and can't compete with production slots when there's a major edition release for a leading game by GW.


Whilst GW isn't fully into one-and-done production; we have heard many times that the launch window for a new thing (model,army, game etc) is often one of its most heavy periods of sales. So GW has to bulk up stock for that launch. That's the abnormal moment of sales for any product they sell - after that the amount they have to produce at any one time should go down as they shift to keeping things in stock. Sure they've clearly got "bulking up" production slots and right now they are likely eaten up entirely with AoS 4.0 - which might even eat up a number of "big bulk up production windows".

chaos0xomega wrote:
Working in manufacturing as I do, I have to tell you that there is absolutely zero difference between releasing a TOW faction (metal kits notwithstanding) or a new codex release for 40k. The only extra step for TOW is resurfacing the old molds. The production planning, workflow, capacity and utilization impact, etc is all the same. The fact that it's product that they weren't producing before doesn't really change that unless it requires new production tooling - that's where the resource investment actually occurs. Likewise the fact that 40k stuff is in pipeline/rotation already and TOW is being added to it doesn't change much either - GW has been steadily growing their capacity for some time, likewise removing old products from production. If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

All other things being equal it still physically takes longer to manufacture the average ToW box (at least four, can be up to ten, shots of a 4-man sprue and then probably a shot of a separate command sprue and maybe even shield sprues) than it does the average AoS box (max two shots of a 5 or 10-man sprue).

"Duardin" are not even purged from the cities of sigmar range yet. They are even mentioned in the war-com article about CoS in the new edition.
They usually dont double up with the same models in AoS and TOW, do they?

 Fayric wrote:
"Duardin" are not even purged from the cities of sigmar range yet. They are even mentioned in the war-com article about CoS in the new edition.
They usually dont double up with the same models in AoS and TOW, do they?

Given that Old World hasn't even been out for six months, it's difficult to discern what GW 'usually' does. However:

-Beastmen got purged from Age of Sigmar to become a strictly Old World army.
-Dark Elves are considered a Legacy army for Old World, so their models do still technically belong on sale for Age of Sigmar.
-Old World photos for Warriors of Chaos all show classic minis.

Currently, the Dwarves appear to be an outlier.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
"Duardin" are not even purged from the cities of sigmar range yet. They are even mentioned in the war-com article about CoS in the new edition.
They usually dont double up with the same models in AoS and TOW, do they?

Given that Old World hasn't even been out for six months, it's difficult to discern what GW 'usually' does. However:

-Beastmen got purged from Age of Sigmar to become a strictly Old World army.
-Dark Elves are considered a Legacy army for Old World, so their models do still technically belong on sale for Age of Sigmar.
-Old World photos for Warriors of Chaos all show classic minis.

Currently, the Dwarves appear to be an outlier.

And goblins got the older sculpts for nightgoblins and wolfriders. Savage orcs got dropped from the Orruk Warclans. Semi related coincident had empire models updated/replaced for Cities of sigmar new sculpts as TOW got released. And likewise coincidentally, the orruk ardboys got resculpted at the time of TOW release and old sculpts soon released as blackorcs.

Beastmen was a surprise for everyone that GW pulled it from AoS and threw it into Old World - I would not be surprised if this was purely management or inter-departmental issues (eg the AoS team and Old World team cannot communicate with each other because - secrets or something).

I'm also convinced GW doesn't really know what to do with Dwarves nor the Dark Elves in AoS. They don't appear to want to get rid of either but they also don't seem to want to do anything concrete with them either. They are out in a limb, esp since Cities of Sigmar got a big core of models released for them.

Beastmen weren't a surprise to me?

They received even less support than Idoneth and Fyreslayers, which are the yardstick for literally just coasting along. Once Slaangor made an appearance in the Hedonites Battletome, Tzaangors for Disciples, and generic Beastmen as part of the Spire Tyrants it kinda felt like the obvious pathway forward would be them just being integrated into the main armies.

It's interesting Dispossessed aren't totally gone, but I think its very likely the Old World units will be missing by the next battle tome.

It's pretty obvious, even prior to the beastman purge, that GW wants to separate the models ranges. Why else would they bring back the old plastic night goblins instead of the newer kit that is currently used in AOS? The Dark Elf models currently in the Cities are likely safe, since there aren't any plans to include them in TOW (though the core book mentions them a few times, so they may have been removed last minute)

The additions to CoS missed the mark IMO. They're grim fantasy but the whole point of CoS was the mixing of humans, duardin, and aelves together.

The Command Corps could have had the assassin model be an aelf, the cannon should have had a duardin gunner, maybe even throw some aelf and duardin into the Wildercorps Hunters to link back to Dwarf Rangers and Wood Elves.

I'm still convinced that whenever Malekith* comes out of hiding in the Age of Sigmar, all the Dark Elves will flee the Cities of Sigmar and join up with him.

I assume there's no rumors about when we might see Empire?

Or Chaos, for that matter?

(Damnit, I want me some Forsaken!)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I assume there's no rumors about when we might see Empire?

My personal belief is Chaos and Empire are last. Chaos because I have a feeling we'll get 4 god dedicated Armies of Infamy and Empire because we're most likely getting 3 sub-factions tied to the 3 Emperors and so will be a heftier release.

Now, of course, I have no evidence for that.

Yep. Agreed. I'm reckoning on Empire v Chaos will be tied into something like a year since TOW first released or similar.

chaos0xomega wrote: If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

It's pretty clear that they *don't* have enough capacity, given that practically everything the release sells out minutes after the pre-order window opens.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote: If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

It's pretty clear that they *don't* have enough capacity, given that practically everything the release sells out minutes after the pre-order window opens.

There's a reason they're building a new factory.

 Baragash wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote: If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

It's pretty clear that they *don't* have enough capacity, given that practically everything the release sells out minutes after the pre-order window opens.

There's a reason they're building a new factory.

Wait another one? I thought they'd just built one and the main issue is that they can't even run another one at full capacity because the local electrical grid can't take it?

 Overread wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote: If they're releasing TOW it's because they have capacity to accommodate it without impacting something else.

It's pretty clear that they *don't* have enough capacity, given that practically everything the release sells out minutes after the pre-order window opens.

There's a reason they're building a new factory.

Wait another one? I thought they'd just built one and the main issue is that they can't even run another one at full capacity because the local electrical grid can't take it?

What I heard when I visited warhammer world was that gw built a second but then had to upgrade the electrical grid to power it. And then the plan was to ramp it up to meet demand, but the spike in demand during covid meant that it basically went to full capacity immediately, thus the talk of another factory.

What about new factory?

You've already had it.

We've had one, yes. What about second new factory?

Last actual newspaper article on it said the "new factory" was just a dedicated packing centre, intended to give some elbow room to the casting operations in the main factory.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/business/warhammer-firm-games-workshop-build-9344258

For those interested