Overread wrote:
There's certainly that element; plus the fact that right now there's hype and no models from GW so people are much more willing to part with more cash now before GW's official kits drain their wallets.


Now is the perfect time to start selling your old classic dwarf stuff

You mean now is the time for people with zero patience to piss their money away rather than wait for something official

 GaroRobe wrote:
Another unreleased dwarf command sprue is up on eBay

Spoiler:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226060692403?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D259212%26meid%3D045e4cb743e9451bbede5808ac6942d1%26pid%3D101875%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D296260269500%26itm%3D226060692403%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V2V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecallWithVMEV3CPCAutoWithCassiniEmbRecallManual%26brand%3DGames%2BWorkshop&_trksid=p4429486.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum%3A226060692403045e4cb743e9451bbede5808ac6942d1%7Cenc%3AAQAJAAABgLSVkHmTL63bebovD9RfpraPWbY9f4anjbziTIaEIOVXg2DWhVLks3Lfqff9vxxfjIh4XEXusIehlT2iEH8%252BCxXNySMxlDIQJ3g86%252Bx3AAIAq9gznqdGSR72ksP41kjzPN1reUbVsJuld0S4i4qXlQfTmkMeIJTCXTM8mLpr7ju2fMvruDu87ZX%252B4bShOvD%252B4lByYedmiiAoLUYLELu0GCoaeIALjpvU0Zxz%252Ff4gXk1E1q6vOZIX2ubWlFyopzTtdD7c4ICx8OAUW26E7w53mci5jfNNNI7myRNEMOm3y%252F%252BMnwFOn%252FyF1VjIXwlHIZKoX2AlSBBLZTuT01KUEpNtjIghW5YhyFWDlGUM7Nz5LP1%252BP8aIIkQHYXLQf%252Fe4cxL%252FsMew0uzpQJ3pBbr2UYkRJblDtnJXlK5AfwC%252FLCAcCj159VdKYPHTuLmIFKudlzxxN3Xl36jq%252FNaRj%252F1a%252BJfwPjKV%252F5OQvHbpLcn24xu2NkGoUCu4m8YMR5%252B3BQ4WvahE6g%253D%253D%7Campid%3APLX_CLK%7Cclp%3A4429486&itmmeta=01HSV3E3D5F3XNG3TSAY457WR3

Maybe the sellers are afraid GW will officially release it and make it worthless

I hope someone who buys one of these will actually put it together - I'd just like to see what it looks like.

just look at the now re-released 7th Edi plastic command frame

out of the oathstone and the new banner (and some other bits) there is nothing special on that frame and the models itself have the basic shapes similar to the troops

 Just Tony wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There's certainly that element; plus the fact that right now there's hype and no models from GW so people are much more willing to part with more cash now before GW's official kits drain their wallets.


Now is the perfect time to start selling your old classic dwarf stuff

You mean now is the time for people with zero patience to piss their money away rather than wait for something official

Why aren't those minis "official"??

$50 USD for four stands of snotlings?

I don’t envy new players starting armies. I just want some odds and sods for Orcs and Dwarves to refight the grudge matches of olde.

I will probably crack open the wallet for the orc shaman, the stone troll sculpts that I don’t already have, and more plastic black orcs to bulk out my regiment.

As for dwarfs, I might have all that I need other than a few metal models to round out thunderers, miners, and the other elite units. I must have 80-100 unbuilt plastic warriors and I think they are mostly excess to requirements but I won’t know until I make an army list.

SU-152 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There's certainly that element; plus the fact that right now there's hype and no models from GW so people are much more willing to part with more cash now before GW's official kits drain their wallets.


Now is the perfect time to start selling your old classic dwarf stuff

You mean now is the time for people with zero patience to piss their money away rather than wait for something official

Why aren't those minis "official"??

Is " Standard retail release" a better phrasing for you? No matter how you slice it, it is incredibly brain dead to sit there and pay upwards of what you would pay for an entire battalion just to get a single sprue that wasn't released, especially since they're gonna be releasing a new sprue with the new line.

 Just Tony wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There's certainly that element; plus the fact that right now there's hype and no models from GW so people are much more willing to part with more cash now before GW's official kits drain their wallets.


Now is the perfect time to start selling your old classic dwarf stuff

You mean now is the time for people with zero patience to piss their money away rather than wait for something official

Why aren't those minis "official"??

Is " Standard retail release" a better phrasing for you? No matter how you slice it, it is incredibly brain dead to sit there and pay upwards of what you would pay for an entire battalion just to get a single sprue that wasn't released, especially since they're gonna be releasing a new sprue with the new line.

I'd argue the only braindead thing here is the inability to understand some people like different things, so having a rare piece of warhammer history might be what give them their kicks.

 JB wrote:
$50 USD for four stands of snotlings?

Only if you look at the game the way GW force you to look at it. Ignore them. Realistically, how many of us are ever going to step foot inside an official store and get to play games. And if a FLGS is forcing GW sanctions on your games, look for a better store!

If the cost is too high for metal units, use the plastic alternatives. A single set of the snotling blood bowl team will give you more units of snots and two pump wagons for around the same cost.

If you really want the old metals, but want to stretch the value don't put all 7 snotlings per base. Thin them out and get 5-6 bases out of them.

Or go all out and add a plastic squig, homemade mushrooms, skulls, leftover weapons, and dead bodies and stretch a single set out to 8 bases. You now have $100 worth of snotlings for the cost of some left overs and some scrounged up bases (maybe an ebayed squig or two)

I've found some of the prices to be a bit rough (€40 for the two damsels was a little nasty, made worse because it was the one set of models that I need three duplicate sets of ) but over all the goblin prices didn't seem too far fetched to what they could have been. Would always have liked them to have been cheaper, but easily supplemented against cheaper plastics to be decent enough over all. (Though I dread to think what forcing us to buy sets of three stone trolls will do to my wallet, when I know for sure the multiple sculpts I need will be in the opposing sets )

 JB wrote:
$50 USD for four stands of snotlings?

I'm using the plastic Blood Bowl team.

Went to Adepticon last week and played in the Old World Tourney...around 70 of us, played some great folks and had a blast. Curious when GW incorporates Old World to their Open Events.

The Blood Bowl set looks pretty nice. I have four bases of metal snotlings already, do I need more? I guess it will depend on how much the stone trolls and Black Orcs cost.

Dudeface wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There's certainly that element; plus the fact that right now there's hype and no models from GW so people are much more willing to part with more cash now before GW's official kits drain their wallets.


Now is the perfect time to start selling your old classic dwarf stuff

You mean now is the time for people with zero patience to piss their money away rather than wait for something official

Why aren't those minis "official"??

Is " Standard retail release" a better phrasing for you? No matter how you slice it, it is incredibly brain dead to sit there and pay upwards of what you would pay for an entire battalion just to get a single sprue that wasn't released, especially since they're gonna be releasing a new sprue with the new line.

I'd argue the only braindead thing here is the inability to understand some people like different things, so having a rare piece of warhammer history might be what give them their kicks.

As a Transformer's collector I have several Botcon pieces that are extremely limited, and I understand owning something that is rarer than most.



The brain dead part to me is the exorbitant prices that people are willing to pay for these sorts of things. The after market sucks right now solely because nobody knows how to practice restraint and force the prices down

Good luck with that - considering that auction houses are a whole industry built upon people paying more than the next person for limited stock items.

Heck I've even seen people on ebay pay more than something costs retail that's in stock on the main manufacturers website!

 Overread wrote:
Good luck with that - considering that auction houses are a whole industry built upon people paying more than the next person for limited stock items.

Heck I've even seen people on ebay pay more than something costs retail that's in stock on the main manufacturers website!

That is always very concerning to see. WHY?! Who hurt you? Poor fools...

 Just Tony wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There's certainly that element; plus the fact that right now there's hype and no models from GW so people are much more willing to part with more cash now before GW's official kits drain their wallets.


Now is the perfect time to start selling your old classic dwarf stuff

You mean now is the time for people with zero patience to piss their money away rather than wait for something official

Why aren't those minis "official"??

Is " Standard retail release" a better phrasing for you? No matter how you slice it, it is incredibly brain dead to sit there and pay upwards of what you would pay for an entire battalion just to get a single sprue that wasn't released, especially since they're gonna be releasing a new sprue with the new line.

There's no quarantee this model gets released though. If master broke it could be out of sale for good.

Unique hard to get stuff going for high price not just miniature things. One could arque why anybody pays millions for shirt but people do...

There are poeple who buy every single GW release across all product ranges out of principle so this shouldn't be even slightly surprising to anyone.

 Overread wrote:
Good luck with that - considering that auction houses are a whole industry built upon people paying more than the next person for limited stock items.

Heck I've even seen people on ebay pay more than something costs retail that's in stock on the main manufacturers website!

As have I, thus the brain dead part...

Eh. Its less an issue of being brain dead but more just about how markets and money work.

Money becomes less valuable the more you have of it. To someone making 20k a year, $1000 is a valuable sum. to someone making 20 million its not worth getting out of bed for.

Even if all consumers valued the item equally they will never ban together the drive prices down like you, not due to stupidity, but might be in a position where the amount of money being asked by the seller means nothing to them, or at least less than it might to you.

Well paying more than retail on something that can be got at retail price is kind of silly

Maybe just somebody feeling lazy and buys 1st result from google because to him price is peanuts...

Some people will go online, spend ages researching the best price for a product and if the product is a good buy in the first place and so forth.

I'd argue a majority of those are the kind of person you'll find on a forum (esp today). They go the extra mile in product research.


Others are going to go on whatever store they land on first and that's it. They don't really look any further so their market understanding is limited.



And to be fair we all do this with priorities. Very few of us are willing to craft a shopping list and then hit up 3 or 4 supermarkets to find the best price on each item each week. Even those on a very limited budget put a marker of effort and time against how much they can research something etc...


Plus we all do things like support a local store or a favoured online store. Heck look at how many people just won't buy games from any store online except Steam.



So there's loads of reasons that can come into play which can cause someone to "overpay" on a product.

This is before we even hit the "they were lazy/stupid/ignorant" level

 Overread wrote:
Very few of us are willing to craft a shopping list and then hit up 3 or 4 supermarkets to find the best price on each item each week. Even those on a very limited budget put a marker of effort and time against how much they can research something etc...

One of the nice things about the internet age, and online shopping, is that this is actually quite possible and can often be done from your couch. The question then becomes, is the price difference enough to offset the cost in fuel and time in transit between stores.

I lucked out. The Aldi and Wal-Mart I do most of my grocery shopping at have connected parking lots. And on the main road between home and those stores, are stores from the two major grocery chains, so the time and fuel costs are minimal for me. Even so, generally I don't bother with the other stores unless there's a really good sale going on...

 Vulcan wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Very few of us are willing to craft a shopping list and then hit up 3 or 4 supermarkets to find the best price on each item each week. Even those on a very limited budget put a marker of effort and time against how much they can research something etc...

One of the nice things about the internet age, and online shopping, is that this is actually quite possible and can often be done from your couch. The question then becomes, is the price difference enough to offset the cost in fuel and time in transit between stores.

I lucked out. The Aldi and Wal-Mart I do most of my grocery shopping at have connected parking lots. And on the main road between home and those stores, are stores from the two major grocery chains, so the time and fuel costs are minimal for me. Even so, generally I don't bother with the other stores unless there's a really good sale going on...

Yep but even online its not always dead simple; lots of scam stores and such can confuse a search and searching in itself is a skill that not everyone honestly has; or wants to put time into.
ESp in this day and age where more and more people are doing more online on their phone (tiny screen) and might not even own a home pc (or might only boot it up for work)

A simple chromebook is around $200 and does the job just fine.

But I'll grant you, it's not something a lot of people put effort into. In my case it's worth the savings. For others it's not. As with almost everything in life, your mileage may vary.

ingtaer name's will go to The Great Book of Grudges for calling the most venerable dawi "dwarves"

I still have to wonder why they left Savage Orcs in AoS, not like you can't use them but I'd like to buy them and square bases in the same box.

I don't mind the dwarf lord on shieldbearers and foot lord.

But I'm not a fan of the resin oathstone handgun character. He looks too WoW cartoony, which giant Asterix metal wings on his helmet and a gun with a bore more like a blunderbuss than a flintlock...

I'm also not impressed by Ungrim's absurd axe head.

There is something very generic about these dwarfs. They seem very plain and not particularly warhammery. I'm not sure exactly what makes me think that or even if there's a real basis beyond nostalgia, but they just don't look that great.


This model is the one I use for my dwarf army standard, a sold metal slab. None of this fabric banner nonsense. I squashed more than a few vampire thralls with this guy in a unit. The image of him swatting enemy characters with that standard always made me smile.

 Hellebore wrote:
There is something very generic about these dwarfs. They seem very plain and not particularly warhammery. I'm not sure exactly what makes me think that or even if there's a real basis beyond nostalgia, but they just don't look that great.

I think you're describing what I previously mentioned about some of the new Bretonnians. Technically they're exceptional, but they have no life. They look like what they are: computer-generated.

The goofiness of many hand-sculpted minis makes them technically "bad," but it also gives them character the new minis can't emulate.

Bretonnian plastics available properly yet?

Are there any cavalry units for WH dwarves? I don't see any in the Forces of Fantasy and was wondering if Forgeworld had any that I wasn't aware of.

I was looking at the Sons of Ymir line and really liked the cavalry units I saw there and wondering if there was any hope of rules for such in WHFB.

No, outside the Gyrokopter there never was, yet previous/older Editions had rules to keep the infantry fast (always marching, no penalties for armour, free movement before the game starts) to compensate this

 CMLR wrote:

I still have to wonder why they left Savage Orcs in AoS, not like you can't use them but I'd like to buy them and square bases in the same box.

i suspect it might be because savage orcs are finally going away for good in aos4th, and GW would rather they be gone completely than just move them to a different game

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 CMLR wrote:

I still have to wonder why they left Savage Orcs in AoS, not like you can't use them but I'd like to buy them and square bases in the same box.

i suspect it might be because savage orcs are finally going away for good in aos4th, and GW would rather they be gone completely than just move them to a different game

While I personally have no use for savage orcs, I do like them in the Warhammer setting, especially ole Wurzzag. I hope GW moves them back to The Old World.

 Stormonu wrote:
Are there any cavalry units for WH dwarves? I don't see any in the Forces of Fantasy and was wondering if Forgeworld had any that I wasn't aware of.

I was looking at the Sons of Ymir line and really liked the cavalry units I saw there and wondering if there was any hope of rules for such in WHFB.

They could always hire dogs of war cavalry

Yeah having Dogs of War back in the game introduces a whole other element to the game (or back to the game).

 JB wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 CMLR wrote:

I still have to wonder why they left Savage Orcs in AoS, not like you can't use them but I'd like to buy them and square bases in the same box.

i suspect it might be because savage orcs are finally going away for good in aos4th, and GW would rather they be gone completely than just move them to a different game

While I personally have no use for savage orcs, I do like them in the Warhammer setting, especially ole Wurzzag. I hope GW moves them back to The Old World.

I thought it was obvious that savage orcs are orc boys with "frenzied" options, as frenzied boys can take warpaint and the two-orc spear option.
And they dont include savage orcs in the old world release because they are already available in the webstore for AoS (including the savage boar boys). I can go to my FLGS and pick up a box of 20 savage orcs today.
So, the savage orcs are in ToW, and also highly available to buy from GW. Actually, more available than most ToW units.

 Stormonu wrote:
Are there any cavalry units for WH dwarves? I don't see any in the Forces of Fantasy and was wondering if Forgeworld had any that I wasn't aware of.

I was looking at the Sons of Ymir line and really liked the cavalry units I saw there and wondering if there was any hope of rules for such in WHFB.

Dwarfs don't ride

 Stormonu wrote:
Are there any cavalry units for WH dwarves? I don't see any in the Forces of Fantasy and was wondering if Forgeworld had any that I wasn't aware of.

I was looking at the Sons of Ymir line and really liked the cavalry units I saw there and wondering if there was any hope of rules for such in WHFB.

I've just happened upon these, and they are so cool! https://youtu.be/lhoAvh5uhwY?si=9GsViceu6XqMTyn9 But I guess they would really require some heavy house ruling which would limit their use. Unfortunately Dwarfs in WH have always been boring like that, with options limited to very static, passive gameplay which made me wonder even those 25 years ago why anyone would want to play them :(

because the static and passive gameplay was part of 8th Edition comp (because some people did not like play against aggressive dwarfs) and ETC "draw" lists

that TOW used this as base and made them passive by default outside of copter spam is one big negative about the game (in addition of not making Empire infantry lists viable)

I never played 8th edition*, I base my opinion on 5-6-7 ed games against Dwarfs.




*-well, I did once, when kids at my school's wargaming club asked me to play with them. I grudgingly agreed.

and in 5th dwarfs were not really slower than other armies (and even things like the anvil could move) and 6th/7th, specially 6th with the 2nd army book was not passive at all

I know people who played list based on Team Tournament lists were dwarfs were used to prevent a loss against stronger armies to play the corner fortress, same as avoiding wood elves, in regular games and never tried to do something different

but playing dwarfs passive was a player choice, same as playing Empire gunlines or avoidance elves, and not the default option of the army book

I used to play against quite a few fighting infantry centered Dwarf armies in 6th and 7th at local tournaments and the scenario was always the same - encircle them, multicharge, eventually break. Once again, very passive gameplay from the Dwarfs, apart from moving forward on the first few turns, as they just didn't have tools nor speed to set up charges, countercharges, bait traps etc. Just taking charges from multiple sides and rolling dice and losing combat every turn until they eventually failed their Ld test and broke.

Maybe i ToW they can do better at surviving this, as break tests are not as much of an all or nothing affair, but it doesn't make it any less passive and uninteresting.

Cyel wrote:
I used to play against quite a few fighting infantry centered Dwarf armies in 6th and 7th at local tournaments and the scenario was always the same - encircle them, multicharge, eventually break. Once again, very passive gameplay from the Dwarfs, apart from moving forward on the first few turns, as they just didn't have tools nor speed to set up charges, countercharges, bait traps etc. Just taking charges from multiple sides and rolling dice and losing combat every turn until they eventually failed their Ld test and broke.

Maybe i ToW they can do better at surviving this, as break tests are not as much of an all or nothing affair, but it doesn't make it any less passive and uninteresting.

I typically describe fighting Dwarves as like fighting a mountain, but the mountain fights back. In WHFB Dwarves had so much Leadership and Stubborn that expecting to break them (even with flank charges) was a fool's errand. One must be prepared to grind them down over several turns.

Not really. Even considering equal Wounds inflicted (unlikely as Darfs rarely fought first and weren't particularly killy) the advantage of 3 ranks, flank and outnumber meant Dwarfs take break tests on 4 or 5. Even with a BSB re-roll this is bad probability and note that it means never winning, only hoping (against probability) you don't break when repeatedly losing.

StubboreN means testing on ld and no secret they have higher ld than 4-5.

Yeah, I guess they had a stubborn unit or rune in 6th/7th + Unbreakable (but easy to kill) Slayers.

Still it was this exact situation, never win combats, lose non-stubborn ones easily, lose battle. That's how I remember these games, whether I played orcs or chaos against them.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Cyel wrote:
I used to play against quite a few fighting infantry centered Dwarf armies in 6th and 7th at local tournaments and the scenario was always the same - encircle them, multicharge, eventually break. Once again, very passive gameplay from the Dwarfs, apart from moving forward on the first few turns, as they just didn't have tools nor speed to set up charges, countercharges, bait traps etc. Just taking charges from multiple sides and rolling dice and losing combat every turn until they eventually failed their Ld test and broke.

Maybe i ToW they can do better at surviving this, as break tests are not as much of an all or nothing affair, but it doesn't make it any less passive and uninteresting.

I typically describe fighting Dwarves as like fighting a mountain, but the mountain fights back. In WHFB Dwarves had so much Leadership and Stubborn that expecting to break them (even with flank charges) was a fool's errand. One must be prepared to grind them down over several turns.

I rarely enjoyed playing against Dwarfs. Guys in my local scene always did the gun line of numbing inevitability. My entire strategy as an opponent reduced to “get across the board as fast as I can, and pray I’ve enough oomph left to take them in combat”. Oh, and don’t forget they can Rune up to make their dice rolls as safe and favourable as possible. And forget your magic phase, because unless you really spec into it? They’ll just shut you down. Which means just to get spells off, I need to sacrifice hitty characters.

The supposed downside? Slow, with typically low Initiative. Except I can’t march block them, so when manoeuvring really counts they’re not at a disadvantage. And given even their Crossbows can have Great Weapons? Who cares about I2. Just strike last with a bonus.

Boooooooooooooooooooring.

I think the key is they need good terrain placement and objective/reasons to move up into the board.

I got this as a hard lesson playing a Knight army recently in 40K. In a straight kill game any gun-line army can just stand back, move back and keep shooting. You've got to make sure the board breaks up the lines of fire (for both sides) and also forces both to move into the middle.

Otherwise the gunline army is just going to gun-line and stand there shooting. With no reason to push into the board and expose themselves to close combat risk. Even if the terrain is well setup, if they've no reason to close toward oyu they won't.

I was absolutely expecting to see some scenario/objective play being default in ToW. I was surprised it's still purely kill Vps and preserve Vps. I guess the dragons wouldn't be so dominating if they couldn't hold objectives and get Vps.

ASOIAF scenarios could be a nice example of how scenarios can be used in a regimented wargame - destroyed units still give some Vps, but you can't ignore the scenario.

I’m not sure WHFB has ever really lent itself to Objectives. With blocks of infantry and limited manoeuvres taking and holding becomes…really odd.

Though specific scenarios with different victory conditions can shake it up. Forlorn Hope, line breaking etc.

For instance, one could involve needing to get units off the opposite side of the board, representing a break out or break through before a larger battle, where the attacker’s forces are key reinforcements the defender is trying to delay. But “get there and just stand there” doesn’t really work.

True, I'd momentarily forgotten that its much harder to do dense terrain and objectives with rank and file. You have to leave room for things to wheel and move about the board otherwise it becomes impossible to achieve anything.

I think objectives still work even if its a generic area based one like holding the middle ground. At the very least I think it forces armies to come together rather than sit back and shoot for ranged focused ones.

Especially as Old World doesn't have a lot of those movement tricks that 40K has for drop pods; reinforcements; teleporting and so forth which can let you jump things around or onto the board to break up a static gunline.

Have you played ASOIAF? It actually works pretty well there. Scenarios are quite varied and most are about taking and holding (or sometimes carrying) objectives.

ASOIAF is also more of a skirmish game with large models than it is a rank and flank. Maneuvering is much easier (mostly just pivots and marching directly forward, with set unit sizes that never change).

You don't have to deal with large wheels and formation changes and such and often milk out extra maneuvers/movement with the NCU board and tactics cards.

most R&F games focus on objectives, kill as a scenario option is mainly a GW thing and that TOW only has kill scenarios is an exception, even for Warhammer Fantasy

and TOW is more of a skirmish games, as a lot of rules are single model mechanics and not unit mechanics
just that a game uses the unit as the smallest tactical model on the board does not make it a skirmish game (and most R&F games do this, again GW is the exception here)

I'm sure GW are already working on books like "Campaign Battles of the War of Four Emperors" with plenty of special rules and scenarios and special characters.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Cyel wrote:
I used to play against quite a few fighting infantry centered Dwarf armies in 6th and 7th at local tournaments and the scenario was always the same - encircle them, multicharge, eventually break. Once again, very passive gameplay from the Dwarfs, apart from moving forward on the first few turns, as they just didn't have tools nor speed to set up charges, countercharges, bait traps etc. Just taking charges from multiple sides and rolling dice and losing combat every turn until they eventually failed their Ld test and broke.

Maybe i ToW they can do better at surviving this, as break tests are not as much of an all or nothing affair, but it doesn't make it any less passive and uninteresting.

I typically describe fighting Dwarves as like fighting a mountain, but the mountain fights back. In WHFB Dwarves had so much Leadership and Stubborn that expecting to break them (even with flank charges) was a fool's errand. One must be prepared to grind them down over several turns.

I rarely enjoyed playing against Dwarfs. Guys in my local scene always did the gun line of numbing inevitability. My entire strategy as an opponent reduced to “get across the board as fast as I can, and pray I’ve enough oomph left to take them in combat”. Oh, and don’t forget they can Rune up to make their dice rolls as safe and favourable as possible. And forget your magic phase, because unless you really spec into it? They’ll just shut you down. Which means just to get spells off, I need to sacrifice hitty characters.

The supposed downside? Slow, with typically low Initiative. Except I can’t march block them, so when manoeuvring really counts they’re not at a disadvantage. And given even their Crossbows can have Great Weapons? Who cares about I2. Just strike last with a bonus.

Boooooooooooooooooooring.

I've run into some of those. Though, one poor sap with a Dwarven Gun Line ran into my Dark Elf Menagerie. I went first, and he conceded top of 2 once the vast majority of my army was in his flanks and eating his war machines.

I, unfortunately, played dozens of "games" against dwarven gunlines in my time. Boring as hell, terrible experience and winning these most of the time didn't help much.

I prefer melee infantry in my Dwarfs, but I acknowledge the gunline is un-interactive.

You win battles against Dwarf gunlines in terrain placement.

He takes a hill and puts it in his deployment area? You grab a forest and put it in front of the hill. Keep the sightlines on his half of the table short or pointing nowhere near where you're going to deploy, and gunlne dwarves are boned.

Artillery is not nearly as effective in TOW as 8th imo. Yeah still laser guided cannons but partials being a thing again and some artillery being nerfed along with damage reduction, doesn’t make it quite as bad. And that’s coming from a chaos dwarf player that used to run like 6-7 war machines a game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m not sure WHFB has ever really lent itself to Objectives. With blocks of infantry and limited manoeuvres taking and holding becomes…really odd.

Though specific scenarios with different victory conditions can shake it up. Forlorn Hope, line breaking etc.

For instance, one could involve needing to get units off the opposite side of the board, representing a break out or break through before a larger battle, where the attacker’s forces are key reinforcements the defender is trying to delay. But “get there and just stand there” doesn’t really work.

KoW has like a dozen scenarios, although none like that because of Dwarves. The nearest is Invade which requires being in the opposite half of the table and therefore still gives the unit a lot of freedom to contribute.

30x60 mm are in stock on the US website

 Vulcan wrote:
You win battles against Dwarf gunlines in terrain placement.

He takes a hill and puts it in his deployment area? You grab a forest and put it in front of the hill. Keep the sightlines on his half of the table short or pointing nowhere near where you're going to deploy, and gunlne dwarves are boned.

I played in uncountable tournaments when I was heavily into WFB and not a single one of them allowed players to move or place terrain pieces (WE an obvious exception)

 nathan2004 wrote:
30x60 mm are in stock on the US website

And immediately out of stock again. Actually ridiculous.

in 8the edition there where scenarios to, but no one played those. And looking at my fiends club we will not play scenarios im afraid. :(

my dwarf army was gun and closecombat every thing you accuse the dwarfs for also count for empire, woodelfs, highelves even bretonia shooting list with stonetrowers and tombking with the female tombqking that got you posion attacks. with tow it its not so effective because you need hils to shoot with you hole unit or make a singel line.

Has there been any indication when all the printed rule books/army books will actually be available again?

 ph34r wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
30x60 mm are in stock on the US website

And immediately out of stock again. Actually ridiculous.

You want to hear something even more rediculous? I've ordered the troll hag on thursday, still in stock. Got a confirmation and everything. Ordered a few more things for my budding troll horde from different places. Today at twelf noon, 5 days later, i suddenly get a mail that bassically says: 'tough luck, you're not getting it, you're not going on a waiting list, here's your money back'. By now it also was out of stock of course. I am actually so frustrated by this that all my joy about the game has been instantly sucked away.

The rules are great, but the release of the game itself has been a horrible experience for me.The rebasing, models going out of stock instantly and not coming back, some models taking ages to be released while it was said they would be released 'on or near' the release (Elisse Duchaard). It's just all frustration and little fun, and that's coming from someone who already had 3 4000points or more warhammer armies ready to play for years. :p

I'm currently rebuilding my dark elf force that I originally started into WHFB with and, unfortunately, sold in my twenties. Their updated sculpts survived into AoS and are fairly moden still, so this has been a rather pleasant experience so far.

 BertBert wrote:
I'm currently rebuilding my dark elf force that I originally started into WHFB with and, unfortunately, sold in my twenties. Their updated sculpts survived into AoS and are fairly moden still, so this has been a rather pleasant experience so far.

Nice to hear! I found updating my 7000 points O&G a particularly vexing task, especially my squig herd, which contains everything from old Kev Adams squigs and herder pairs (on cavalry bases) to the sixth edition metal squigs, the old skarsnik and gobbla, 'the chase' and the new plastic ones for aos. I trult have no idea how to rebase thst unit and it's my favorite one.

JWh85 wrote:
...

Sounds like quite the task indeed. If your squigs are already based and looking nice I'd probably opt for movement trays and make it work somehow. If you tear them all off just to fit a new ruleset that will invariaby change again at some point, it might just bite you in the long run.

What's the issue with a squig herd in TOW, out of curiosity? I haven't seen Ravening Hordes, so not sure what's changed.

There's no problem with the rules, but they are now on larger bases; my unit contains many slottabase models and some thst are now on cavalry bases (old squig Hunter team models) which now need to go on a base that does not exist as far as i know (25×50mm) so that will be quite difficult to manage from a modeling point of view.

Back on topic: is anybody else excited to not be able get their hands on Ogdruz Swampdigga?

JWh85 wrote:
need to go on a base that does not exist as far as i know (25×50mm)

Citadel 25mm x 50mm Rectangular Bases exist (as do 50x50 & 50x100) - unless I'm misunderstanding you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:



Copied from Reddit:

Rumours about the short and far future of Old World

beast_gts wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
need to go on a base that does not exist as far as i know (25×50mm)

Citadel 25mm x 50mm Rectangular Bases exist (as do 50x50 & 50x100) - unless I'm misunderstanding you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:



Copied from Reddit:

Rumours about the short and far future of Old World

Spoiler:

So this was from the Warhammer Fantasy discord server if anyone cares to see if there was anything I missed out.

Cathay has a written army list similar to Total War Warhammer's version.

Skaven were specifically cited as unlikely to appear anytime soon for Old World. (Perhaps it's karma for my post yesterday.) The reason is perhaps the focus of Age of Sigmar's fourth edition.

Beastmen's armies of infamy include a minotaur horde and a call of the wild army, which uses magic related to the new lore included in the arcane journal.

Empire's armies of infamy include a Nuln gun army of infamy and a Middenheim army of infamy.

Various Forge World units, including the skin-wolves, firmer, gore-bull BSB and the peryton, will be returning. It was stated specifically that the chaos mammoth will NOT be returning.

Apparently, there is an F&Q planned for the arcane journals once all of them have been released.

Finally, and this one wasn't given much information to it as it was sort of muddled, but there is a long-term plan for Vampire Counts to be the first army to be made core from the missing armies. Though the way it was described it is a far-away concept and you shouldn't expect it soon.

Thank you to Javgoro from the Fantasy Discord for the information.

Of course there are...i'm just tired and wasn't thinking straight. Still a difficult job to transfer that unit though!


Now let's get back on topic.

They did say the scope of the game was changing...thanks for the rumors.

 ph34r wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
30x60 mm are in stock on the US website

And immediately out of stock again. Actually ridiculous.

Got a whole bunch of 30x30mm and 30x60mm from Hobby Heaven in the UK a few weeks ago, I highly recommend them. Took exactly 10 days to receive here in southern CA and they're better than the GW bases that came with my Bretonnian army set

beast_gts wrote:

Spoiler:

So this was from the Warhammer Fantasy discord server if anyone cares to see if there was anything I missed out.

Cathay has a written army list similar to Total War Warhammer's version.

Skaven were specifically cited as unlikely to appear anytime soon for Old World. (Perhaps it's karma for my post yesterday.) The reason is perhaps the focus of Age of Sigmar's fourth edition.

Beastmen's armies of infamy include a minotaur horde and a call of the wild army, which uses magic related to the new lore included in the arcane journal.

Empire's armies of infamy include a Nuln gun army of infamy and a Middenheim army of infamy.

Various Forge World units, including the skin-wolves, firmer, gore-bull BSB and the peryton, will be returning. It was stated specifically that the chaos mammoth will NOT be returning.

Apparently, there is an F&Q planned for the arcane journals once all of them have been released.

Finally, and this one wasn't given much information to it as it was sort of muddled, but there is a long-term plan for Vampire Counts to be the first army to be made core from the missing armies. Though the way it was described it is a far-away concept and you shouldn't expect it soon.

Thank you to Javgoro from the Fantasy Discord for the information.

None of that is particularly unexpected, although not particularly exciting either. I wouldn't expect those rumored Cathay or Vampire Counts armylists to go anywhere for a few years at least. Beasts of Chaos used to have an all-minotaur army in 6th if you took a Doomlord general, not sure if they still did in 7th/8th. Might be a fun all-monster army for people that don't like Ogres. I'm guessing they'll be re-released old metals instead of the plastic Bullgors

ButToW still has yet to go anywhere at my FLGS, still lots of excitement and chatter in the FLGS Discord, but until more armies are out and can stay in stock for more than a weekend I have no opponents to play against. My friend is starting an escalation league down in San Diego and there's quite a few players on game nights, but that's too far for me to play in.

beast_gts wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
need to go on a base that does not exist as far as i know (25×50mm)

Citadel 25mm x 50mm Rectangular Bases exist (as do 50x50 & 50x100) - unless I'm misunderstanding you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:



Copied from Reddit:

Rumours about the short and far future of Old World

Spoiler:

So this was from the Warhammer Fantasy discord server if anyone cares to see if there was anything I missed out.

Cathay has a written army list similar to Total War Warhammer's version.

Skaven were specifically cited as unlikely to appear anytime soon for Old World. (Perhaps it's karma for my post yesterday.) The reason is perhaps the focus of Age of Sigmar's fourth edition.

Beastmen's armies of infamy include a minotaur horde and a call of the wild army, which uses magic related to the new lore included in the arcane journal.

Empire's armies of infamy include a Nuln gun army of infamy and a Middenheim army of infamy.

Various Forge World units, including the skin-wolves, firmer, gore-bull BSB and the peryton, will be returning. It was stated specifically that the chaos mammoth will NOT be returning.

Apparently, there is an F&Q planned for the arcane journals once all of them have been released.

Finally, and this one wasn't given much information to it as it was sort of muddled, but there is a long-term plan for Vampire Counts to be the first army to be made core from the missing armies. Though the way it was described it is a far-away concept and you shouldn't expect it soon.

Thank you to Javgoro from the Fantasy Discord for the information.

Rumors seem unlikely, if only because GW's come out and said there aren't any plans for Cathay or Kislev at the moment.

 nathan2004 wrote:
They did say the scope of the game was changing...thanks for the rumors.

Not changing, growing.

Laughing Man wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
need to go on a base that does not exist as far as i know (25×50mm)

Citadel 25mm x 50mm Rectangular Bases exist (as do 50x50 & 50x100) - unless I'm misunderstanding you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:



Copied from Reddit:

Rumours about the short and far future of Old World

Spoiler:

So this was from the Warhammer Fantasy discord server if anyone cares to see if there was anything I missed out.

Cathay has a written army list similar to Total War Warhammer's version.

Skaven were specifically cited as unlikely to appear anytime soon for Old World. (Perhaps it's karma for my post yesterday.) The reason is perhaps the focus of Age of Sigmar's fourth edition.

Beastmen's armies of infamy include a minotaur horde and a call of the wild army, which uses magic related to the new lore included in the arcane journal.

Empire's armies of infamy include a Nuln gun army of infamy and a Middenheim army of infamy.

Various Forge World units, including the skin-wolves, firmer, gore-bull BSB and the peryton, will be returning. It was stated specifically that the chaos mammoth will NOT be returning.

Apparently, there is an F&Q planned for the arcane journals once all of them have been released.

Finally, and this one wasn't given much information to it as it was sort of muddled, but there is a long-term plan for Vampire Counts to be the first army to be made core from the missing armies. Though the way it was described it is a far-away concept and you shouldn't expect it soon.

Thank you to Javgoro from the Fantasy Discord for the information.

Rumors seem unlikely, if only because GW's come out and said there aren't any plans for Cathay or Kislev at the moment.

My guess is when they said the scope grew, they meant they got permission to invest into developing Kislev/Cathay.

Cyel wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
You win battles against Dwarf gunlines in terrain placement.

He takes a hill and puts it in his deployment area? You grab a forest and put it in front of the hill. Keep the sightlines on his half of the table short or pointing nowhere near where you're going to deploy, and gunlne dwarves are boned.

I played in uncountable tournaments when I was heavily into WFB and not a single one of them allowed players to move or place terrain pieces (WE an obvious exception)

So you never, ever play casually in a game store? It's always in some form of tournament?

In a tournament I'd expect to face nothing but WAAC lists, and to me that's no fun at all. If that's your jam, go, play, have a blast; I won't be there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWh85 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I'm currently rebuilding my dark elf force that I originally started into WHFB with and, unfortunately, sold in my twenties. Their updated sculpts survived into AoS and are fairly moden still, so this has been a rather pleasant experience so far.

Nice to hear! I found updating my 7000 points O&G a particularly vexing task, especially my squig herd, which contains everything from old Kev Adams squigs and herder pairs (on cavalry bases) to the sixth edition metal squigs, the old skarsnik and gobbla, 'the chase' and the new plastic ones for aos. I trult have no idea how to rebase thst unit and it's my favorite one.

Try 7000 points of Skaven (including slaves) and 15,000 points of Dark Elves. Add 7000 in Brets and Dwarves, and somewhere around 5000 in Lizardmen, and no, I'm NOT rebasing for TOW, thank you very much....

 Vulcan wrote:
You win battles against Dwarf gunlines in terrain placement.

He takes a hill and puts it in his deployment area? You grab a forest and put it in front of the hill. Keep the sightlines on his half of the table short or pointing nowhere near where you're going to deploy, and gunlne dwarves are boned.

Crap like that is why we always set the terrain before determining deployment zones.

 Vulcan wrote:

Cyel wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
You win battles against Dwarf gunlines in terrain placement.

He takes a hill and puts it in his deployment area? You grab a forest and put it in front of the hill. Keep the sightlines on his half of the table short or pointing nowhere near where you're going to deploy, and gunlne dwarves are boned.

I played in uncountable tournaments when I was heavily into WFB and not a single one of them allowed players to move or place terrain pieces (WE an obvious exception)

So you never, ever play casually in a game store? It's always in some form of tournament?

In a tournament I'd expect to face nothing but WAAC lists, and to me that's no fun at all. If that's your jam, go, play, have a blast; I won't be there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWh85 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I'm currently rebuilding my dark elf force that I originally started into WHFB with and, unfortunately, sold in my twenties. Their updated sculpts survived into AoS and are fairly moden still, so this has been a rather pleasant experience so far.

Nice to hear! I found updating my 7000 points O&G a particularly vexing task, especially my squig herd, which contains everything from old Kev Adams squigs and herder pairs (on cavalry bases) to the sixth edition metal squigs, the old skarsnik and gobbla, 'the chase' and the new plastic ones for aos. I trult have no idea how to rebase thst unit and it's my favorite one.

Try 7000 points of Skaven (including slaves) and 15,000 points of Dark Elves. Add 7000 in Brets and Dwarves, and somewhere around 5000 in Lizardmen, and no, I'm NOT rebasing for TOW, thank you very much....

O man..7000 points of skaven rebasing would indeed be a nightmare! Next to the 7000 O&G i have about the same for Empire, about 6000 in Ogres (wouldn't be the worst to rebase though), 6000 Dark Elves and about 5000 in Beastmen hidden somewhere. I'll just be rebasing my O&G though i think. Apart from the Dark Elves overlap our armies put together almost run the gamut though.

the one thing that is strange about the rumours being that the Journal FAQ is set for when all Journals are released
not like there are a lot of questions about the Journals as the main disputes are all from the core books, but even if points needed to be cleared up why the need to wait for the last Journal to be out to answer questions for the first ones


for the other points, the original discord rumour is a little different than what is written on Reddit
As for Skaven it was written "Skaven are getting binned with 2nd Edition" (with other misunderstandings like F&Q instead of FAQ it is likely are binned and not get binned, so returning with 2nd Edi)
and that there will be a Vampire Count Mousillon army

and there was a discussion if Cathy Army Book and 2nd Edition means an update after the Journals are out in 2025/2026 while other claimed 2029 as earliest date

 Vulcan wrote:


So you never, ever play casually in a game store? It's always in some form of tournament?

In a tournament I'd expect to face nothing but WAAC lists, and to me that's no fun at all. If that's your jam, go, play, have a blast; I won't be there.

I never understood this culture of playing in stores, it's probably the worst place I can imagine to play in. Home, club, tournament beat it every time. And even in those non-tournament situations the go-to terrain solution was to ask a third party to set up terrain. Tailoring terrain feels pretty wrong to me and it goes for any system I play.

I too am not quite sure how the concepts of a casual pickup game and competitive LOS blocking terrain placement are supposed to coexist on a table.

Whitefang on TGA forum (excellent track record for rumours when it comes to AoS) said this:

Honestly I still maintain that its a smart move on GW's front. IF they released 2 brand new totally modern model lines they'd have no chance releasing the classic models they are now.

And chances are they couldn't swing a budget for ALL the factions to be re-done at once. Plus they've likely had loads of messages from old fans who just want old classic models.

So ride that nostalgia train early - get the game up and running and then hit the market with full new armies.

I have one herder thats on a 20 x 40 base , but i use adapter movement trays and i made a slot he will fit in, i do print my movement trays my self so i can easy modify the trays. im starting a new beastmen and highelves army that will go on the selfmade bases becaus i don't like the look of the gw basese. for my dwarfs i am now printing new bases because i didnt like the old green bases annymore.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly I still maintain that its a smart move on GW's front. IF they released 2 brand new totally modern model lines they'd have no chance releasing the classic models they are now.

And chances are they couldn't swing a budget for ALL the factions to be re-done at once. Plus they've likely had loads of messages from old fans who just want old classic models.

So ride that nostalgia train early - get the game up and running and then hit the market with full new armies.

To ride that nostalgia train people need to have access to the product in the first place though. :p
I've not been able te get my hands on any of the new things that aren't plastic at all and i also haven't been able to procure any of the re-released stuff that i wanted. Even getting the books proved to be quite a task.
And i consider myself a somewhat enfranchised player; i can't imagine what someone most be thinking who is beginning their GW career with this game! (I know it's not meant for new players, but still).

I think the order of priority for GW should be:

- fix your production size
- release the 9 nostalgia armies (which, atmittedly, make me feel 12 again)
- do all the cool new stuff.

I do believe they are already in the process of spinning up a new production facility.

Its just not something that can happen quickly. It takes time to expand operations.

Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly I still maintain that its a smart move on GW's front. IF they released 2 brand new totally modern model lines they'd have no chance releasing the classic models they are now.

Eh big disagree there, people buying 90s fantasy models today are clearly unaffected by the thousands of better models that exist, a few more won't do anything.

 kodos wrote:
the one thing that is strange about the rumours being that the Journal FAQ is set for when all Journals are released
not like there are a lot of questions about the Journals as the main disputes are all from the core books, but even if points needed to be cleared up why the need to wait for the last Journal to be out to answer questions for the first ones


for the other points, the original discord rumour is a little different than what is written on Reddit
As for Skaven it was written "Skaven are getting binned with 2nd Edition" (with other misunderstandings like F&Q instead of FAQ it is likely are binned and not get binned, so returning with 2nd Edi)
and that there will be a Vampire Count Mousillon army

and there was a discussion if Cathy Army Book and 2nd Edition means an update after the Journals are out in 2025/2026 while other claimed 2029 as earliest date

Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

What rumours are these?

I can't see them mentioned on this page or previous?

beast_gts wrote:

Copied from Reddit:

Rumours about the short and far future of Old World

Spoiler:

So this was from the Warhammer Fantasy discord server if anyone cares to see if there was anything I missed out.

Cathay has a written army list similar to Total War Warhammer's version.

Skaven were specifically cited as unlikely to appear anytime soon for Old World. (Perhaps it's karma for my post yesterday.) The reason is perhaps the focus of Age of Sigmar's fourth edition.

Beastmen's armies of infamy include a minotaur horde and a call of the wild army, which uses magic related to the new lore included in the arcane journal.

Empire's armies of infamy include a Nuln gun army of infamy and a Middenheim army of infamy.

Various Forge World units, including the skin-wolves, firmer, gore-bull BSB and the peryton, will be returning. It was stated specifically that the chaos mammoth will NOT be returning.

Apparently, there is an F&Q planned for the arcane journals once all of them have been released.

Finally, and this one wasn't given much information to it as it was sort of muddled, but there is a long-term plan for Vampire Counts to be the first army to be made core from the missing armies. Though the way it was described it is a far-away concept and you shouldn't expect it soon.

Thank you to Javgoro from the Fantasy Discord for the information.

here's the rumors

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/8160/807983.page#11655612

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly I still maintain that its a smart move on GW's front. IF they released 2 brand new totally modern model lines they'd have no chance releasing the classic models they are now.

Eh big disagree there, people buying 90s fantasy models today are clearly unaffected by the thousands of better models that exist, a few more won't do anything.

I'd say yes and no. Yes there are always die hard fans but I think on the no front the general population might not be so accepting within a game system. Especially if 2 new armies got a roster of awesome models first and then suddenly you're back to 20 year old models almost only barring one or two new ones.

It just doesn't seem like a good marketing approach.

Now granted perhaps with the sales rate now GW could have done it the other way around; but the risk is if they had they'd have sold great on the first two new armies and far less on those that followed.

It's hard to say but one approach sounds safer to take for planning a release.

Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

How is that different from normal vampire counts?

Bretonnian theming probably.

I guess they might have more cavalry since its basically a corrupted Bretonnian faction. So the same zombies/skeleton rank and file and then more cavalry on top. Perhaps with some different undead beasts than the Von Carsine based vampires that have traditionally been the core focus of GW's model range.


Who knows though, GW could make them more of a "there's a few vampires and everyone else is a slaved human with few zombies and skeletons and the like". So they'd have elements of Vampires whilst being very distinct from the full on vampire leading the undead force.


In the end it could also just be minor design differences in sculpt asthetics with not a huge departure from the Vampires now in AoS. Not forgetting that basically every design that's in AoS for Death was once part of the Vampire army. Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army. Ghosts, feral vampries and all were once in that line; so it covers quite a swathe.

 nathan2004 wrote:
How is that different from normal vampire counts?

The real question is how is that different from normal Bretonnians?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army.

That's a take. If you had said Tomb Kings I'd agree, but VC?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
How is that different from normal vampire counts?

The real question is how is that different from normal Bretonnians?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army.

That's a take. If you had said Tomb Kings I'd agree, but VC?

Both the Morghast and Mortarch (on skeleton mounts) models came from the Vampire Counts army from Old World. Yes it was the End Times and thus a very short lived period of time; but that design style of a core of skulls and a skeleton of bone and fused armour started there in the Old World End Times with the Vampires.

GW then did the same thing for them that they did for Ghosts and Feral Vampires. Splintered them off and grew them into a whole design ethos for a new army.





I actually wonder what GW will do with the Coven Throne (and its 2 other versions) when they come to update the model. They certainly do not push that model in marketing or photography as its designs are clearly based on the old vampire style of force that had ghosts running alongside it. It along with the Corpse Waggon are two designs that I feel have not translated well into modern Soulblight forces. The Waggon feels too primitive for a force that are no longer hiding necromancers living in isolation raising a force of the dead against a local settlement; and the Throne is carried by ghosts that don't appear anywhere else in the army.

 Overread wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
How is that different from normal vampire counts?

The real question is how is that different from normal Bretonnians?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army.

That's a take. If you had said Tomb Kings I'd agree, but VC?

Both the Morghast and Mortarch (on skeleton mounts) models came from the Vampire Counts army from Old World. Yes it was the End Times and thus a very short lived period of time; but that design style of a core of skulls and a skeleton of bone and fused armour started there in the Old World End Times with the Vampires.

GW then did the same thing for them that they did for Ghosts and Feral Vampires. Splintered them off and grew them into a whole design ethos for a new army.





I actually wonder what GW will do with the Coven Throne (and its 2 other versions) when they come to update the model. They certainly do not push that model in marketing or photography as its designs are clearly based on the old vampire style of force that had ghosts running alongside it. It along with the Corpse Waggon are two designs that I feel have not translated well into modern Soulblight forces. The Waggon feels too primitive for a force that are no longer hiding necromancers living in isolation raising a force of the dead against a local settlement; and the Throne is carried by ghosts that don't appear anywhere else in the army.

They weren’t in the VC army though, they were only in the combined Undead army that included all the TK units and one of the mounted Mortarchs was a TK character.

Neither the Morghasts nor the Dread Abyssals particularly gel stylistically with the actual VC units, even the Mortis Engine/Coven Throne.

So the Beastmen are back https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/04/whats-leaving-the-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-range/

Yes, as I mentioned in the past, my sources whispered that BoC would be squatted out of AoS and shunted to TOW. Yall doubted me but here it is. I predicted the same for bonesplitterz but didn't have a source on that, still not sure what's going in there but I expect some of those minis will be repackaged into TOW boxes.

Hopefully this helps folks wrap their heads around the underlying business maneuvering for why some factions are core and others are legacy.

No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

 GaroRobe wrote:
No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

They are kinda there with a warpaint (or whatever it is called) rule for Orcs.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

Well that makes naff all sense considering Mousillon in The Old World setting has a very much alive and well population and a fairly capable, living Duke (even if he's going to be getting into some 'questionable' things a decade or two down the timeline...) and the only prior vampiric influence of note isn't due to reappear for a few centuries. Not an impossible lore inclusion, will just feel a bit like shoehorning Mousillon vampires for the sake of it.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

They are kinda there with a warpaint (or whatever it is called) rule for Orcs.

but in limited amounts so no possibility to play an army just single units


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, as I mentioned in the past, my sources whispered that BoC would be squatted out of AoS and shunted to TOW. Yall doubted me but here it is. I predicted the same for bonesplitterz but didn't have a source on that, still not sure what's going in there but I expect some of those minis will be repackaged into TOW boxes.

Beastmen was pretty obvious from the moment the rumours about reasons for legacy armies was around

 kodos wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

They are kinda there with a warpaint (or whatever it is called) rule for Orcs.

but in limited amounts so no possibility to play an army just single units

Yeah, that is why I said kinda there

Yes, it does sound a bit odd, especially when there's the Harkon faction in the Border Princes - unless there's some confusion and it's really a blood knight army under Walach Harkon that was confused for bretonnia because of all the knights.

The other possibility is that it's an army based around the Red Duke of Aquitaine, who is active in this time period (being hunted by the forces of Aquitaine after killing one of his successor Dukes some 100 years prior). TWW placed him in Mousillon which has led to some confusion/the perception that Mousillon has the monopoly on bretonnian vampirism.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

Well that makes naff all sense considering Mousillon in The Old World setting has a very much alive and well population and a fairly capable, living Duke (even if he's going to be getting into some 'questionable' things a decade or two down the timeline...) and the only prior vampiric influence of note isn't due to reappear for a few centuries. Not an impossible lore inclusion, will just feel a bit like shoehorning Mousillon vampires for the sake of it.

Depends on how far they are will to advance / look into the future past. Could fit around a campaign book about the fall of Mousillon.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

Well that makes naff all sense considering Mousillon in The Old World setting has a very much alive and well population and a fairly capable, living Duke (even if he's going to be getting into some 'questionable' things a decade or two down the timeline...) and the only prior vampiric influence of note isn't due to reappear for a few centuries. Not an impossible lore inclusion, will just feel a bit like shoehorning Mousillon vampires for the sake of it.

Depends on how far they are will to advance / look into the future past. Could fit around a campaign book about the fall of Mousillon.

Sure, though it would be a departure from what their stated (current) intent is and have it be focused on this specific period and a gradual build towards the Great War. The fall of Mousillon also has nothing to do with vampires.

"Mousillon is the smallest, poorest, and most cursed of the dukedoms of Bretonnia. Much of its land was seized by Lyonesse in 1814 IC, after the Vampiric corruption of Duke Merovech d'Mousillon was revealed. The Duke of Mousillon slew the King of Bretonnia and drank his blood before the assembled nobles. War was the only solution." - Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition: Knights of the Grail (RPG) pp. 81-83

I looked at the "What's leaving AoS" article and it seems they are discontinuing all of the Skaven TOW units that are currently part of AoS.
None of the "returning to TOW" like Beastmen, so I guess they are just gone. They *really* don't want you playing Skaven for TOW.

 SgtEeveell wrote:
I looked at the "What's leaving AoS" article and it seems they are discontinuing all of the Old World units that are currently part of AoS.
None of the "returning to TOW" like Beastmen, so I guess they are just gone. They *really* don't want you playing Skaven for TOW.

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

The Stormcast vanishing, with some only just 3 years old from the last edition was not expected.

Beastmen moving to Old World and leaving AoS wasn't expected

Slaves to Darkness losing the Warcry sets - understandable but not expected (also no clarification if Warcry will exist beyond this point or not)

Wild orks - not expected, somewhat slightly kind of understandable but not expected


Basically a LOT of this list wasn't expected to happen. Furthermore GW have announced this somewhat early I think. They should have done this a week or less after announcing a good 1/2 of the new skaven and stormcast models. Instead we have 1 leaked skaven and 1 stormcast replaced (librators) and nothing else so far. So its a REALLY bad time to announce it because there's nothing to EXCITE the stormcast players.

Warcry is fine. The webstore has the SCE units as last chance to buy right now. All the Warcry bands are standard stock in their own part of the store.

I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

 Overread wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:
I looked at the "What's leaving AoS" article and it seems they are discontinuing all of the Old World units that are currently part of AoS.
None of the "returning to TOW" like Beastmen, so I guess they are just gone. They *really* don't want you playing Skaven for TOW.

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

The Stormcast vanishing, with some only just 3 years old from the last edition was not expected.

Beastmen moving to Old World and leaving AoS wasn't expected

Slaves to Darkness losing the Warcry sets - understandable but not expected (also no clarification if Warcry will exist beyond this point or not)

Wild orks - not expected, somewhat slightly kind of understandable but not expected


Basically a LOT of this list wasn't expected to happen. Furthermore GW have announced this somewhat early I think. They should have done this a week or less after announcing a good 1/2 of the new skaven and stormcast models. Instead we have 1 leaked skaven and 1 stormcast replaced (librators) and nothing else so far. So its a REALLY bad time to announce it because there's nothing to EXCITE the stormcast players.

Anybody not expecting Beastmen to be culled after they were a Core faction in TOW was being ludicrously optimistic tbh…

Lord Zarkov wrote:


Anybody not expecting Beastmen to be culled after they were a Core faction in TOW was being ludicrously optimistic tbh…

True, but they aren't culling Slaves to Darkness from AoS

And they have had one or two odd armies in the past - eg Demons - being cross game. But yeah it does seem like someone in management is REALLY REALLY die hard on the games not crossing over

 Overread wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:


Anybody not expecting Beastmen to be culled after they were a Core faction in TOW was being ludicrously optimistic tbh…

True, but they aren't culling Slaves to Darkness from AoS

No, they've got new AoS versions, like Lizards and the upcoming Skaven.
Once the Darkoath come out, StD is pretty much an entirely new range, complete with 'AoS-only'* models. It wasn't a coincidence that the pictures in the TOW rulebook feature old stuff.

*though I fully expect people to use them as TOW models regardless.


Beasts and savage orcs getting kicked isn't really surprising either. People were in fact pretty adamant about it when the books released.

The only real surprise is the weird status of the elf and dwarf units loosely attached to Cities of Sigmar. But I'll be completely unsurprised when the new version of that book comes with a culling. (especially if the fabled 'Malerion' faction finally comes out)

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

 kodos wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

Not really. Sacrosanct aren't really anything else than 1st ed models but blinged up. You can quite easily substitute them in for them. It's what i'm doing.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

Not really. Sacrosanct aren't really anything else than 1st ed models but blinged up. You can quite easily substitute them in for them. It's what i'm doing.

Tell me, Gideon - when was the last time GW did something with AOS that you actually criticised?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

Not really. Sacrosanct aren't really anything else than 1st ed models but blinged up. You can quite easily substitute them in for them. It's what i'm doing.

Tell me, Gideon - when was the last time GW did something with AOS that you actually criticised?

I don't know, can you tell me the last time you weren't a cynic? But if you want to play this game, feel free to do it through pms and not in a news thread.

Tuesday, by the look of things.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

Not really. Sacrosanct aren't really anything else than 1st ed models but blinged up. You can quite easily substitute them in for them. It's what i'm doing.

With all due respect... thats not even a slight serious attempt to debate anything... Is like saying all Orcs are the same... or all space marine chapters are the same and so on and on.
So yeah you should "take more than one moment to think"... before typing that sort of things.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
All the Warcry bands are standard stock in their own part of the store.

Maybe in your country. Corvus Cabal and Cypher Lords have been 'temporarily' out of stock for close to a year, if not over at this point.

LOL at them being restocked at this point if HamCom's responses on Twitter are any indication.

 Overread wrote:

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

I wasn't expecting a Skaven release for TOW. I was *not* expecting them to abruptly stop selling all the old models. Which of course are now out of stock on the US web store.

Guys, look! today they confirmed Beastmen now will be a TOW only-army!

4head

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

I wasn't expecting a Skaven release for TOW. I was *not* expecting them to abruptly stop selling all the old models. Which of course are now out of stock on the US web store.

To be fair, GW have been doing this for a while now, they just don't usually give a heads up. Things just stay out of stock for a while before, poof they are gone and here's a new thing (which reminds me, need to get a copy of the current GSC combat patrol before it vanishes.)

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

I wasn't expecting a Skaven release for TOW. I was *not* expecting them to abruptly stop selling all the old models. Which of course are now out of stock on the US web store.

To be fair, GW have been doing this for a while now, they just don't usually give a heads up. Things just stay out of stock for a while before, poof they are gone and here's a new thing (which reminds me, need to get a copy of the current GSC combat patrol before it vanishes.)

As far as I can tell, this might be only the third time: once when they announced a crap-ton of kits were getting culled from Cities of Sigmar (though most of those will be back for the Old World) and when they axed a bunch of Firstborn Marines.

As far as the Stormcast go, it seems to me most of the sacrosanct models that are going could pretty easily be used as “counts as” of things that are staying, so models could soldier on (ie sequitors as liberators, dracoline as paladors, etc).

Rules-wise, it has always seemed to me GW didn’t really know what to do with sacrosanct, so I could see why they would be chosen for excision to streamline the number of Stormcast units.

Perhaps they will come back next addition in the new aesthetic?

Guys, this is OLD WORLD discussion, not Age of Sigmar, take it elsewhere and also, drop the sniping at one another.

 Dawnbringer wrote:
"Mousillon is the smallest, poorest, and most cursed of the dukedoms of Bretonnia. Much of its land was seized by Lyonesse in 1814 IC, after the Vampiric corruption of Duke Merovech d'Mousillon was revealed. The Duke of Mousillon slew the King of Bretonnia and drank his blood before the assembled nobles. War was the only solution." - Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition: Knights of the Grail (RPG) pp. 81-83

Yep, all of which happened centuries before The Old World is set and was the prior vampiric situation I alluded to. Merovech isn't due to return for even more centuries. It's not the 'fall of Mousillon'. That doesn't occur until the Affair of the False Grail which is set to commence in around twenty years from the 2276 IC date we have for the 'current' TOW timing and sees the duchy abandoned in its aftermath. The new interactive map has Duke Maldred (the instigator of the Affair, unless it's a close predecessor with the same name) actively reclaiming previously lost territory and the duchy is meant to be prosperous during this period.

Again, not a huge deal if they want to handwave it as being some remnant Vampires of Merovech's brief reign, just an odd choice when there's a perfectly good Red Duke running around if they wanted a Vampire-Bretonnian themed army.

Any word on when we'll see more copies of Forces of Fantasy again? Sold out everywhere I look, and that's annoying trying to put together armies.

various UK 3rd party stores have supposed restocking days around the end of april, but not sure how that's going to relate to USA stock

If anyone is picking up the Orc & Goblin Battalion today I would love to see a picture of the Goblin transfers!

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

I wasn't expecting a Skaven release for TOW. I was *not* expecting them to abruptly stop selling all the old models. Which of course are now out of stock on the US web store.

Stormvermin have been out of stock for ages anywhere locally, and on the GW webstore too whenever I've checked. Would be nice to know what they are to be replaced by before putting in the effort and potential markup prices of hunting down a set somewhere.

FAQs & Erratas updated!

Old World Almanack – Designer’s Notes on the FAQ and Errata

Also French and German versions of the Arcane Journals promised to be coming "very soon".

So that should put to rest a couple nonsensical community arguments. Lances can be used any turn a unit charges, not just the first time, and rules that say "per x points" etc base it on the game size, not how many points you actually spent on your army.

I imagine quite a few folks are feeling kind of silly right now.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I imagine quite a few folks are feeling kind of silly right now.

Nah they will insist this is a rules change, not a common sense clarification that shouldn't be required

The three things that stood out to me the most:
1. The 4+ save of Tomb Guard Chariots includes their shield bonus. I already assumed this was the intent, but it was good to be cleared up (would have been better if they errated the non-character chariot rules as well to make it even clearer that chariot saves take such equipment into account)
2. You can't use the effect of magic armour while using the save of your chariot or mount. No more wearing light magic armour with strong special effects and getting around the worse save (like Armour of the Ages on a bone dragon)
3. Template Assailment spells only cause a single hit on the opposing character if you use it in a challenge

Bedazzling Helm now infantry and cavalry only - a lot of Chars on Monsters just got nerfed

chaos0xomega wrote:
So that should put to rest a couple nonsensical community arguments. Lances can be used any turn a unit charges, not just the first time

but this was not really the problem, main question going round was can lances be used after Fall Back in good Order or not.
Because you cannot swap weapons, confirmed by FAQ, and you get the Bonus anytime you charger, confirmed by FAQ, but does this also counts as charge that let you use the Lance with Bonus or not?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The three things that stood out to me the most:
1. The 4+ save of Tomb Guard Chariots includes their shield bonus. I already assumed this was the intent, but it was good to be cleared up (would have been better if they errated the non-character chariot rules as well to make it even clearer that chariot saves take such equipment into account)
2. You can't use the effect of magic armour while using the save of your chariot or mount. No more wearing light magic armour with strong special effects and getting around the worse save (like Armour of the Ages on a bone dragon)
3. Template Assailment spells only cause a single hit on the opposing character if you use it in a challenge

The second might hurt the dragon meta a bit; that's good. I think that they should've done some changes to the army lists, but perhaps they're waiting for the Arcane Journals to all be out beforehand.

If you fall back in good order you will rally at the end of your move, if your enemy didn't go after you and its your turn then you can and may charge and claim the lance bonus

chaos0xomega wrote:
So that should put to rest a couple nonsensical community arguments. Lances can be used any turn a unit charges, not just the first time, and rules that say "per x points" etc base it on the game size, not how many points you actually spent on your army.

I imagine quite a few folks are feeling kind of silly right now.

It has always been this way going back to old WHFB, I remember reading FAQs and thinking what genius thought this up and was playing this way...Pretty easy IMO to interpret intent in some cases but no people need to have it spelled out for some God awful reason lol. We can't use logic and reason.

Well Beastmen have now exited AoS, to my annoyance. As it is gonna take a while for those to return.

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Beastmen have now exited AoS, to my annoyance. As it is gonna take a while for those to return.

You know this is an Old World news thread and not a general discussion AOS thread, right?

 Just Tony wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Beastmen have now exited AoS, to my annoyance. As it is gonna take a while for those to return.

You know this is an Old World news thread and not a general discussion AOS thread, right?

I think the point he was making is that the Beastmen models have now disappeared from the AoS section of the online store, but have not yet been added to the Old World section, they're not available at all from GW at the moment. You can't buy them for either game.

pgmason wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Beastmen have now exited AoS, to my annoyance. As it is gonna take a while for those to return.

You know this is an Old World news thread and not a general discussion AOS thread, right?

I think the point he was making is that the Beastmen models have now disappeared from the AoS section of the online store, but have not yet been added to the Old World section, they're not available at all from GW at the moment. You can't buy them for either game.

But they'll still happily sell you their Battletome!

So they have updated the Vampire Counts rules. The one thing EVERYONE wanted to know is if zombies have to lose models before you can add more or if you can just boost their numbers anytime and what do they do to clarify? You can't make more than 40 total. That doesn't answer the question we all wanted answering! You addressed the badly written rule, but didn't actually clarify anything. Typical GW.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
So they have updated the Vampire Counts rules. The one thing EVERYONE wanted to know is if zombies have to lose models before you can add more or if you can just boost their numbers anytime and what do they do to clarify? You can't make more than 40 total. That doesn't answer the question we all wanted answering! You addressed the badly written rule, but didn't actually clarify anything. Typical GW.

"A unit cannot be taken beyond its starting size" - last words on the page/sidebar on p29. I don't see what's unclear about that.

page 28 Vampire Counts Legacy Army List

"The Newly Dead
Those that fall in battle may be compelled by necromantic magic to
rise again and fight against their former comrades.
When resurrecting the fallen, a unit with this special rule can
be taken beyond its starting size.(but not beyond its
maximum size)."

text in bold added by the FAQ

Yes, that is obvious. Zombie units can grow beyond their starting size, but not over their maximum unit size, which is 40 (or 2D3 for skirmish zombies from the spell, so no adding loads to them). However, what is still NOT clear is when you can add zombies. Do they have to take casualties first, so that you resurrect more than you lost? Or can you add more zombies without having to lose models first? That has been the question since the rules dropped.

 kodos wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So that should put to rest a couple nonsensical community arguments. Lances can be used any turn a unit charges, not just the first time

but this was not really the problem, main question going round was can lances be used after Fall Back in good Order or not.
Because you cannot swap weapons, confirmed by FAQ, and you get the Bonus anytime you charger, confirmed by FAQ, but does this also counts as charge that let you use the Lance with Bonus or not?

Taking into account Rulebook + FAQs, yes, when pursuing into FBIGO lances can be used.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
Yes, that is obvious. Zombie units can grow beyond their starting size, but not over their maximum unit size, which is 40 (or 2D3 for skirmish zombies from the spell, so no adding loads to them). However, what is still NOT clear is when you can add zombies. Do they have to take casualties first, so that you resurrect more than you lost? Or can you add more zombies without having to lose models first? That has been the question since the rules dropped.

Am I missing something? I don't see anything in the Vampire Counts PDF that zombies have an exception to grow beyond starting size. "Resurrecting the Fallen" on page 29 is clear you can't take any unit beyond starting size and explicitly talks about "healing" them so you wouldn't be able to add to it without it having lost figures. From what I am seeing, this even applies to those 2d3 skirmish zombies.

I remember that in 8th you could take them above starting size (especially with newly created units). If this is doable in TOW, I'd certainly like to know as I wouldn't do more than buy a minimal size zombie unit to start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh hell - I see it now, "The Newly Dead" specifically counters the following sidebar of "Resurrecting the Fallen".

Goddamn you GW, WHY DO YOU DO THIS?

The second might hurt the dragon meta a bit; that's good. I think that they should've done some changes to the army lists, but perhaps they're waiting for the Arcane Journals to all be out beforehand.

My guess is more hard data before making real balance changes. Although I'd like to see Fanatics, and the Beastman twig nerfed. Lance formation fixed, now that it is pretty strictly a downside to small units.

Wish 30k received FAQs like this. Great stuff

Not to bring back the AoS theme but man I wish I had the chance to buy Vanguards BoC. I'd rather have som spare round bases then a fugly tuskgor chariot, that is almost certainly to appear on the Beastmen box. That's the only 'but' I have against the Greenskins box, do I hate the cute-gly piggies the have for the Boar Chariot.

Was the tuskgor chariot not metal? Only plastic minis in the boxes so far so you might be safe.

Yeah, that was a metal kit, with only the Boar bodies being plastic, and their tails I think.

exanimus wrote:
Was the tuskgor chariot not metal? Only plastic minis in the boxes so far so you might be safe.

yeap the tuskgor one was mostly metal, only the boars were plastic and even then they had metal upgrade parts.

So most likely they won't be appearing in the beastman box.

Unless we get a new plastic chariot, but the chances of that happening are next to not happening at all.

Might end up being one of the “resin remasters” like the trebuchet.

Speaking of, any word on when the Marauder Giant will be available?

Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

No info on any sort of box, but the aos purge article specifically mentioned beastmen finding their old (and only) home in TOW

Speaking of which, not sure what everyone else's experience has been like with the forgeworld resin but mine has been great so far. Far cry from the finecrap days. I was concerned initially when they said not all would be plastic like 30k by my concerns have been assuaged.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

No info on any sort of box, but the aos purge article specifically mentioned beastmen finding their old (and only) home in TOW

Didn’t say when tho, could be next up after Dwarfs or a while away

Tuskgor chariot, razorgor chariot, I don't know if any of those was plastic I don't care, I just know that I don't want a chariot pulled by bootleg boar toys instead of proper beasts of Chaos.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Speaking of which, not sure what everyone else's experience has been like with the forgeworld resin but mine has been great so far. Far cry from the finecrap days. I was concerned initially when they said not all would be plastic like 30k by my concerns have been assuaged.

Forgeworld Resin was always better than finecrap, though it has its flaws in larger kits. Infantry sized models from FW are great, though.

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

The Old World* not The old World.

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

Here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/

It's not a confirmation of a box set, but it stands to reason that they will be released in tandem with wood elves as a thematic pairing, similar to how they scheduled O&G and Dwarfs. This would leave the obvious pairing of Empire + Warriors of Chaos and a single High Elf slot to round out the first edition of tOW.

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

In the going away article on WarComm, they specifically said the Beastmen are coming back as TOW models.

 CMLR wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

The Old World* not The old World.

Take it up with Androids auto-correct.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

In the going away article on WarComm, they specifically said the Beastmen are coming back as TOW models.

Oh, that is good news. Might even mean they get a new sculpt or two (Plastic Centigors! - highly unlikely but a man can dream!).

They had some really great art in 6th &7th edition that I found inspirational.

You may just be stuck with the new plastic beast lord, assuming he fits on a square base

 BertBert wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

Here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/

It's not a confirmation of a box set, but it stands to reason that they will be released in tandem with wood elves as a thematic pairing, similar to how they scheduled O&G and Dwarfs. This would leave the obvious pairing of Empire + Warriors of Chaos and a single High Elf slot to round out the first edition of tOW.

This conversation is crazy. Why refer to an article on war com when BoC are long established as one of the core factions in the Ravening Hordes book. Also, the greenskins are already released (atleast first wave) and didnt come thematically in tandem with the dwarfs. So the old random speculations of a release patterns was not bad speculation, but GW apparently dont intend to go along that path. They cant even get a single faction released in one go, so still expecting double release sounds unrealistic.

 GaroRobe wrote:
You may just be stuck with the new plastic beast lord, assuming he fits on a square base

The plastic Beastlord just barely fits on a 25mm base, but woe to any model trying to rank up on the right

The Centigor Chieftain might get a sculpt if they don't just reuse Ghorros Warhoof, and I don't imagine the current Doombull is going anywhere unless they want to redo minotaurs entirely. Similar to Orc & Goblin Tribes, the absolute best case scenario I can imagine is one generic hero (likely the centigor) and maybe one special character (likely a particularly funky bray-shaman in the tradition of Malagor and Morghur)

I don't even think most of the resins will be converted back to metal, other than Centigors. The Tuskgor Chariot, Jabberslythe, Dragon Ogre Shaggoth and the Cockatrice are all quite sizeable and will likely just receive the Forge World retooling, if that. If we're lucky, the classic Minotaurs might resurface, maybe restored the range, maybe just an MtO. The real Hail Mary is what we'll get in the Arcane Journal, whether Khorngors and Pestigors can sneak in via Armies of Infamy, or if the diminished role of Chaos in the setting makes them non-starters.

Or I could be completely wrong and they're the last faction to be released because they're going to receive a comprehensive modernizing overhaul, with new minotaurs, plastic chariots and centigors, and a fully represented range of lords and heroes with options. 90% of Beastmen players quit right before they're about to have their day in the sun.

They can go on a 30mm square, should fit on that ok

Obviously I trust anyone with the model on hand to work it out themselves, but on a 30mm you'd be best off positioning the Beastlord with the hooves directly in the middle of each side of the base, as opposed to top left and bottom right on the 25mm. It stops the right axe from blocking anything ranking up, and while it does make the left axe overhang by roughly 5mm, the exalting pose should put it out of the way of most potential neighbours

 Fayric wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

Here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/

It's not a confirmation of a box set, but it stands to reason that they will be released in tandem with wood elves as a thematic pairing, similar to how they scheduled O&G and Dwarfs. This would leave the obvious pairing of Empire + Warriors of Chaos and a single High Elf slot to round out the first edition of tOW.

This conversation is crazy. Why refer to an article on war com when BoC are long established as one of the core factions in the Ravening Hordes book. Also, the greenskins are already released (atleast first wave) and didnt come thematically in tandem with the dwarfs. So the old random speculations of a release patterns was not bad speculation, but GW apparently dont intend to go along that path. They cant even get a single faction released in one go, so still expecting double release sounds unrealistic.

Except he's talking about pairing like orcs&dwarves are. The dwarves are next in line. So wood elves or boc 1st, then the other. Instant pairing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vorian wrote:
They can go on a 30mm square, should fit on that ok

Which happens to be max size allowed(is there many where both 25 and 30 valid? Knew treelords have multiple but beastlord surprised.

Guess so you can have beastlord on gor(25) and bestigor(30) without messing up formation. Would hate to imagine mixing inside same unit(especially 30mm in 25mm)

If the base is too large/small to properly rank up, the character just hangs out on the side of the unit.

Is there any news on the Brett Men at Arms and Archers coming out on their own?

I'm kind of surprised Orcs came out before they did and wonder if maybe they won't come out at all.

Brets and the rest https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/14/sunday-preview-darkoath-marauders-old-world-orcs-and-more/

Lady Élisse Duchaard!!

At last!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is there any news on the Brett Men at Arms and Archers coming out on their own?

I'm kind of surprised Orcs came out before they did and wonder if maybe they won't come out at all.

Speak of the devil

Looks like people saying that the old Night Goblins kit will return were right.

 Gert wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is there any news on the Brett Men at Arms and Archers coming out on their own?

I'm kind of surprised Orcs came out before they did and wonder if maybe they won't come out at all.

Speak of the devil

I literally just had this exact same thought....Finally get my Bone Giant and Casket to complete my Tomb Kings army! Yayyyyyy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Large unit sizes too with these boxes...you might need to buy 1 of them versus multiple ones like before.

I love the classic Brian Nelson greenskin faces, but with the exception of Blorcs and board boys, everything else about those kits is so horribly outdated, I'm not sure I can justify buying any. Can I really make a hundred Night Goblin bodies from scratch and not go insane?

Those Shamans look pretty cool despite the old boar Design.
For people in the know, these chariots are plastic, right? They surely aren't the prettiest on the market but printing so far is not possible for me and the price might be okay.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Those Shamans look pretty cool despite the old boar Design.
For people in the know, these chariots are plastic, right? They surely aren't the prettiest on the market but printing so far is not possible for me and the price might be okay.

Yes, they're plastic.

I can't believe they think people will buy the old Night Gobbos. Those things were so bad they were replaced twice before the end of WFB!

I'll buy them. Two boxes of 20 for $90 of the current sculpt, or a box of 40 of the oldfor I'm going to guess $60-80. The value proposition is obvious.

 The Phazer wrote:


I can't believe they think people will buy the old Night Gobbos. Those things were so bad they were replaced twice before the end of WFB!

Twice? Do you count Skull Pass ones?

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Twice? Do you count Skull Pass ones?

Of course, they're great.

 The Phazer wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Twice? Do you count Skull Pass ones?

Of course, they're great.

BTW, when you said bad about that old kit, did you mean their look or difficulty to put together or both? Never had them in hands so I am curious.

$50 or $60 for 40 models is good value in today's world, I agree.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Twice? Do you count Skull Pass ones?

Of course, they're great.

BTW, when you said bad about that old kit, did you mean their look or difficulty to put together or both? Never had them in hands so I am curious.

The portions are pretty bad with the huge heads and hands and skinny waists also be aware that they are a good bit bigger than the current versions so they don't mix well. No reason to use these over the current AoS ones other than they had to rerelease them as they aren't allowed to share minis.

Glad to see more of the O&G stuff but still waiting for the new Shaman (and the old one is holding up my original order as they didn't make enough)

Not to sound like a complete idiot but they haven't posted the prices on these boxes yet, have they?

 Just Tony wrote:
Not to sound like a complete idiot but they haven't posted the prices on these boxes yet, have they?

No, they may come to light tomorrow, I think.

 Gert wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is there any news on the Brett Men at Arms and Archers coming out on their own?

I'm kind of surprised Orcs came out before they did and wonder if maybe they won't come out at all.

Speak of the devil

I know! Ask and thou shall receive!

So when is the plastic Reaver Titan coming out? And when is the Cities of Death terrain back?

I for one am really happy the old plastic Nightgoblins are back. I love these, and will get a box or two.

Finally! Men at Arms, Archers, and Goblin units all on their own. Lovely to see!

Welp, time to go find all those people on reddit that argued with me that GW wasn't trying to separate the AOS and TOW ranges and that "night goblins existing in both proved it."

As if it wasn't already obvious from the other choices GW made prior to this

Glad there is a better transfer sheet coming for the Brettonians. Just a shame it wasn’t the version included with the starter box.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Welp, time to go find all those people on reddit that argued with me that GW wasn't trying to separate the AOS and TOW ranges and that "night goblins existing in both proved it."

As if it wasn't already obvious from the other choices GW made prior to this

Shouldn't be hard, very many of those out there.

So when do we expect them to announce the removal of Dwarfs from CoS?

Probably next cities of sigmar battletome

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Looks like people saying that the old Night Goblins kit will return were right.

Well I was very wrong, I honestly never saw these coming back. There were absolutely no hints at all that these ones would be back and those that said they would be were indeed right.

I'm very pleased to see these back, that old white dwarf article where someone made a Night Goblin wolf rider army out of these has been my dream ever since this kit first came out and I badly attempted it myself only to be blown away by how well they executed it a few years later. Its quite possible one of my favourite plastic kits to ever come out and seeing it return along with wolf riders is more than I could have hoped for from TOW alone.

I will be order a LOT of these to finally see that dream project completed.

I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

The Bret decal sheet is nice...I suspect it will be massively overpriced but it does seem like a decent enough option compared to the historical sheets I've been looking at. Much better than the poor option provided in the boxes so far.

Same here, gotta eat my words regarding toW now that we've been through several releases. I'd never have expected them to simply re-release those age-old kits, but I guess there is a market for them after all.

Lady Élisse and the Pegasus general are both set for normal release, right? Not limited?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Lady Élisse and the Pegasus general are both set for normal release, right? Not limited?

Yep those are totally normal regular models - though I'd expect both to fall out of stock fast, but they are main-releases that will be restocked. They are not limited production

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

Why they don't just bundle the fanatics with the unit I'll never know. Has anyone ever taken Night Goblins without fanatics?

Oh, man. Looks like I might be making my first GW purchases in a while.

Orc Shaman is one of the few things missing from my Orc army, and I could do with some more wolf riders and chariots...

 Mallo wrote:
There were absolutely no hints at all that these ones would be back

Except it was obvious given all the other maneuvers GW took to separate AoS and TOW.

It's amazing how something so obvious can still somehow surprise people. It was either this or they would release a new kit for AoS and send the current one back to TOW, there weren't really any other options.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

Why they don't just bundle the fanatics with the unit I'll never know. Has anyone ever taken Night Goblins without fanatics?

I'm really hoping that kit comes back. It had fun bits, like a snotling (two maybe?), a cauldron, some bugs and a stalagmite.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

Why they don't just bundle the fanatics with the unit I'll never know. Has anyone ever taken Night Goblins without fanatics?

Fanatics are the reason to take Night Goblins.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

Why they don't just bundle the fanatics with the unit I'll never know. Has anyone ever taken Night Goblins without fanatics?

Fanatics are the reason to take Night Goblins.

Talking of, how do people feel about the new iteration of their rules? No more throwing them out as a charge reaction is a significant change but it also now appears that you can deploy them while fleeing and, as confirmed by the FAQ, in combat.

ImAGeek wrote:

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

The "current" one is 'Technically' for AoS though. The set the others have posted above is the one I was referring too which is the one I was expecting too see returned, which I think was the 7th (? Possible 8th?) edition one that was scaled more inline with the Skull pass Night goblins. They are also more in line/scale with the current available night goblin kit (sold under the AoS line) but I suspect that kit will be scrapped for a new version once AoS 4th gets to its refresh later this year/next year. (much like the skaven clan rats recently did)

Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Fanatics are the reason to take Night Goblins.

Honestly, it should just be known as the fanatics army. Night goblins are just the delivery system after all.

Judging by the painted NG, it looks like they will have smooth round shields, not the moulded details of the originals. Gotta sell those transfers!

And that axe on the Men-at-Arms' shields is NOT on the Bretonnian transfer sheet - were they all free-handed?

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Judging by the painted NG, it looks like they will have smooth round shields, not the moulded details of the originals. Gotta sell those transfers!

And that axe on the Men-at-Arms' shields is NOT on the Bretonnian transfer sheet - were they all free-handed?

Were the shields a separate sprue in that kit or were they part of the same sprue as the Night Goblins themselves? GW won't have removed any details that appeared on the models, though they could pack them with a different shield sprue if they were separate.

Greenfield wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Judging by the painted NG, it looks like they will have smooth round shields, not the moulded details of the originals. Gotta sell those transfers!

And that axe on the Men-at-Arms' shields is NOT on the Bretonnian transfer sheet - were they all free-handed?

Were the shields a separate sprue in that kit or were they part of the same sprue as the Night Goblins themselves? GW won't have removed any details that appeared on the models, though they could pack them with a different shield sprue if they were separate.

Separate shield sprue here’s the original sprue http://solegends.com/citcat2000/c2000p304-01.htm

The command sprue is the shared sprue that had goblin, Skaven and Undead bits on it.

It looks like they come with the 1993 round shield sprue or a version of it rather than the one with the separate icons.

Greenfield wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Judging by the painted NG, it looks like they will have smooth round shields, not the moulded details of the originals. Gotta sell those transfers!

And that axe on the Men-at-Arms' shields is NOT on the Bretonnian transfer sheet - were they all free-handed?

Were the shields a separate sprue in that kit or were they part of the same sprue as the Night Goblins themselves? GW won't have removed any details that appeared on the models, though they could pack them with a different shield sprue if they were separate.

There was a separate sprue that had the shields, each with a hole in the middle where one of several options could be inserted, from an evil moon to an evil eye.

Maybe they lost the molds for the original sprue? Or it's unsalvageable?

Man those NGs take me back.

I have >250 of the latest night goblins, and will not be using the re-released old ones as they look awful.

There was a player 20 odd years ago who ran 400 in a 2000 point army and they looked good in a huge wave, but the newer ones in AOS are just so much better.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mallo wrote:


I suspect that means we will see the metal fanatics return then rather than the plastic kit...I like the sculpts but they are a pain to balance on the bases.

Wasn’t there another plastic kit before the current one? With like 3 in it.

Why they don't just bundle the fanatics with the unit I'll never know. Has anyone ever taken Night Goblins without fanatics?

Fanatics are the reason to take Night Goblins.

Talking of, how do people feel about the new iteration of their rules? No more throwing them out as a charge reaction is a significant change but it also now appears that you can deploy them while fleeing and, as confirmed by the FAQ, in combat.

In their current iteration, they are a bit much, I fully expect them to get toned down with an update in the future.

I'm surprised they are bringing back the OLD Night goblins. I would have thought they would have retired the current plastic kit and made a new one for AoS so we could get the current kit moved over.

I might actually get a box now just for the hell of it.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I'm surprised they are bringing back the OLD Night goblins. I would have thought they would have retired the current plastic kit and made a new one for AoS so we could get the current kit moved over.

I might actually get a box now just for the hell of it.

The current kit was made for AoS and has always been a Gloomspite unit. Especially the alternate build with the poisonous fungus puffballs that instead of the cannonballs. The old plastic kit from the picture above was the last Warhammer FB incarnation.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I'm surprised they are bringing back the OLD Night goblins. I would have thought they would have retired the current plastic kit and made a new one for AoS so we could get the current kit moved over.

I might actually get a box now just for the hell of it.

The current kit was made for AoS and has always been a Gloomspite unit. Especially the alternate build with the poisonous fungus puffballs that instead of the cannonballs. The old plastic kit from the picture above was the last Warhammer FB incarnation.

You appear to be talking about the Fanatics; Commodus Leitdorf was probably referring to the basic Night Goblin infantry (with spear/sword/bow options).

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I'm surprised they are bringing back the OLD Night goblins. I would have thought they would have retired the current plastic kit and made a new one for AoS so we could get the current kit moved over.

I might actually get a box now just for the hell of it.

The current kit was made for AoS and has always been a Gloomspite unit. Especially the alternate build with the poisonous fungus puffballs that instead of the cannonballs. The old plastic kit from the picture above was the last Warhammer FB incarnation.

You appear to be talking about the Fanatics; Commodus Leitdorf was probably referring to the basic Night Goblin infantry (with spear/sword/bow options).

Oh right, yeah. Never mind.

Anyone know if the goblins can be bought separately from the battalion boxes?

Nomeny wrote:
Anyone know if the goblins can be bought separately from the battalion boxes?

Yes https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/14/sunday-preview-darkoath-marauders-old-world-orcs-and-more/

Have we had any confirmation as to which of Saturday's pre orders are available to FLGS/online only yet?

Hope we get the original Night Goblin Fanatics on plastic set back too.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Have we had any confirmation as to which of Saturday's pre orders are available to FLGS/online only yet?

Hope we get the original Night Goblin Fanatics on plastic set back too.

Retail list as posted on TGA anything not on the list is direct only

Is the new Orc Boyz & Orc Arrer Boyz kit just the already available Orc Boyz Mob, with 40 instead of 31, and an arrow sprue added? Or are they based on different bodies / sets etc, any other differences?

bobthe4th wrote:
Is the new Orc Boyz & Orc Arrer Boyz kit just the already available Orc Boyz Mob, with 40 instead of 31, and an arrow sprue added? Or are they based on different bodies / sets etc, any other differences?

It's these 2 sprues (4 of each) - plus 2 command sprues for 38 minis (19 in each unit) per box - 40 in the article is wrong the boxart is correct with 38.

Curious what pricing is in USD and for direct items

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Nomeny wrote:
Anyone know if the goblins can be bought separately from the battalion boxes?

Yes https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/14/sunday-preview-darkoath-marauders-old-world-orcs-and-more/

Cool, thanks!

Definitely a box or two of the Men at Arms for me. One of my favorite kits, up there with the Empire militia.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Definitely a box or two of the Men at Arms for me. One of my favorite kits, up there with the Empire militia.

I love that monk there. Strong Friar Tuck vibes

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Definitely a box or two of the Men at Arms for me. One of my favorite kits, up there with the Empire militia.

I love that monk there. Strong Friar Tuck vibes

I'll be honest, I found the men at arms and archer kits a let down as a follow up to the 5th Ed Perry metals. I didn't like the lean into comedy with the sets (blind archer etc). I'm still holding out for a MtO for the 5th Ed metals (Inc knights).

Yeah, those archers are decent on their own, but you better not put then next to the Perry Squires.

The 6E Starter Orcs are so good. Really hoping that means we'll see the Empire sprues released as well, those are great Spearman and Handgunners for bulking up ranks quickly.

Almost $70 US for 20 Black Orcs?

 Just Tony wrote:
Almost $70 US for 20 Black Orcs?

€62.50 is $80 in GW conversion rates

 DaveC wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Almost $70 US for 20 Black Orcs?

€62.50 is $80 in GW conversion rates

Which is cheaper per orc than it was in 2016, when it was 41.25 USD for 10! 2.50$ in savings, and that's not even counting price increases that would've occured

which just tells us that even for GW level Warhammer Fantasy was overpriced by its end

What was the pricing when they were ard boys in AoS before the new sculpts? Didn’t they come in a box of 20?

box of 10 with the old price

as GW never reduces the price of one of their products, they just bundle them at a new price point if needed

 nathan2004 wrote:
Didn’t they come in a box of 20?

15 per box

Hmm, my enthusiasm, as usual, has cooled on seeing the prices.

I thought they'd be a bit cheaper than that. You can get 15 oathmark cavalry of similar quality for 35 euro, 50 euro seems steep.

And those archers/boyz are monopose, I'm surprised they're going for such high prices.

I've obviously been shopping for historicals and North Star figures for too long and my price sensitivity has come back!

I am excited for the black orcs. Its the one big unit (other than stone trolls & savage orc boar boys) that my O&G are missing.

The price is high enough that it convinced me not to buy that Dark Oath box, however.