1099
Post by: Railguns
Thats the idea that the 3rd edition dex worked at by introducing some creatures as a "genofixed species". They were highly specialized creatures made for a specific goal that did not allow for further tampering. Lictors, Zoanthropes, Biovores, and I believe Raveners were all genofixed species, while the bulk of the swarm was kept flexible. I'm okay with that approach.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Right, and at what point is a Carnifex no longer a Carnifex?
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
When it starts saying 'Unyuu'?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Right, and at what point is a Carnifex no longer a Carnifex?
Once Robin gets done with it...
10193
Post by: Crazy_Carnifex
What I would want to see for warriors is WS4 BS2 S5 T5 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv4+ base. Would probably cost as much as they do now.
The Elite/HQ and fast varients would have the same list of options as they do now, but may not takle venom cannons/barbed stranglers. However, warriors may take Bonded Exo-Skeleton (+1T), Reinforced Chitin (+1W), venom cannons, and/or Barbed Stranglers, in which case they become heavy, and may not take leaping/wings. Also, add in a biomorph that provides fleet, but is not availiable to heavies.
I really would like the variable S of weapons to stay. It just gives the whole shooting thing a more "Organic" feeling.
181
Post by: gorgon
Variable S weapons are a neat fluff point, but problematic for some of the reasons others have said. It's limiting to make a weapon so much better in the hands (claws?) of one unit than another. If on the other hand high S VCs are available to HS Warrior squads, suddenly that Carnifex doesn't *have* to have a VC. Standardizing weapons profiles would eliminate some options but create new ones.
Having said that, I don't think it's going to happen as long as (for instance) devourers come on both Gaunt sprues and Carnifex sprues. Unless they rename the Carnifex devourer to make a distinction. And I think that starts getting confusing and not very WYSIWYG. I suppose they could make some weapons variable and others fixed. But I tend to think the variable mechanic will stick around across the board.
1099
Post by: Railguns
Some things ARE variable and some are fixed. The number of shots on some weapons is restricted to just one, and the ap is fixed, as well as the range. It's usually just a strength modifier and maybe a shot multiplier.
Other armies weapons are better in the hands of one character of another already. A missile launcher is more likely to hit when fired by a marine rather than a scout. Tyranids just add another wrinkle to that, because the ranged weaponry isn't some independant machine that functions the same way regardless of who fired it. They are symbiotic organisms that rely on the host creatures metabolism to determine what they can do.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
It's limiting to make a weapon so much better in the hands (claws?) of one unit than another.
I don't view it as any different than having specific weapons that are vehicle-only like demolisher cannons or Hydra autocannons or something. You're not going to see a guardsman lugging around an earthshaker cannon any time soon, so it doesn't seem terribly outlandish that Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants (the Tyranid "vehicles") would have big, fat guns that nothing else could use. I guess the "confusing" part is that the weapons bear the same name despite having very different roles, but again, I don't see how remembering one strength formula is any more complicated than remembering the stats for a bunch of different weapons.
1099
Post by: Railguns
It isn't like they can't just make warriors have a higher base strength so that they could take toxin sacs and a venom cannon to get 2 shots at S8, or make heavy warriors S6 so they get off 2 S9 shots a turn. Or make Warp Blast longer ranged and more reliable so people have a reason to use Zoanthropes. That probably won't happen though, because they want to sell whatever the new psychic thing is and not Zoanthropes. Zoeys may actually get worse.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
It'd be reasonable if they allowed heavy Warriors to crank up to S6, but I'd be really surprised if they could get S7. That seems like it'd open up CC walker-busting and MC-stomping possibilities, and I doubt GW would want that without a big points premium. I want my Warriors to be reasonably costed, so even though taking on Dreads with warriors would be effing sweet, I hope they don't do that. I'd rather have a unit of Warriors dishing out S8 ranged pain for, say, 45 points a model than S9 shots for 60 points. Of course, that's assuming they're close to as fragile as they are now. I can't see warriors getting more than T5 and a 3+ at the absolute most, so I think that's a safe assumption
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
Railguns wrote:It isn't like they can't just make warriors have a higher base strength so that they could take toxin sacs and a venom cannon to get 2 shots at S8, or make heavy warriors S6 so they get off 2 S9 shots a turn. Or make Warp Blast longer ranged and more reliable so people have a reason to use Zoanthropes. That probably won't happen though, because they want to sell whatever the new psychic thing is and not Zoanthropes. Zoeys may actually get worse.
Zoes were bad in 3rd and were marginally better in 4rth due to Psychic chior (Warp Blast still sucked though). Like you, I don't have any faith in GW getting Zoes right.
Personally, I would like them changed to 48" range, BS 4, and operate in units of 1-3 Zoes (drop the independent gak).
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Zoanthropes were pretty badass when the rule book was the codex, though. S6 AP2 blast ate Terminators for breakfast. After that, agree. They haven't been the same since. If they put in the changes you suggest, life will be good.
11766
Post by: Grunt_For_Christ
Unfortunately all these good ideas don't really matter as it's already finished, which I am excited about... Hopefully what you guys have said actually comes to pass and we get some costs that are in line with abilities and will have some of the brokenness fixed... Or at least something to compensate for it.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
wyomingfox wrote:Zoes were bad in 3rd and were marginally better in 4rth due to Psychic chior (Warp Blast still sucked though). Like you, I don't have any faith in GW getting Zoes right.
Well they ain't getting a new model, so don't expect miracles.
1099
Post by: Railguns
They may arbitrarily get better rules for no reason(to the writers) though. Arby does manage to change things all over the place, and Zoeys can't get much worse than actively hurting your own army.(cue Zoanthropes becoming subject to Perils of the Warp twice as much as other psykers and explode into multiple scattering warp blast templates around it when they are killed.)
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Maybe they'll be the unit to get the random table!!!
Hyper-Evolution - Right before the end of your opponent's third shooting phase, roll 1D6 for every second Zoanthrope in your army:
1. THEY DIE! ARBY STRIKES AGAIN!
2. They don't die, but nothing happens.
3. PINEAPPLE!
4. Warp Scream.
5. Warp Scream that only affects Space Wolves.
6. The die next turn!!!!!!!
181
Post by: gorgon
Railguns wrote:Other armies weapons are better in the hands of one character of another already. A missile launcher is more likely to hit when fired by a marine rather than a scout. Tyranids just add another wrinkle to that, because the ranged weaponry isn't some independant machine that functions the same way regardless of who fired it. They are symbiotic organisms that rely on the host creatures metabolism to determine what they can do.
But BS is a universal variable for ranged weaponry. Tyranids have that plus S and A. And then Tyranids have biomorphs that drive their BS or S up and down. And then throw in variable points costs for guns depending on the variable S.
So when someone says "y'know, that's a lot of complexity that's bound to lead to imbalances...why not structure it more like every other army?", I kinda see their point. Not a big deal to me either way, but I think the point is valid.
I think the rumored "psychic Lictor" -- whether that's really the Malanthrope or not -- has a chance to be interesting. If it's something you can infiltrate/ DS/whatever into a good shooting location, then pop out and start tossing warp blasts around while benefitting from a hefty cover save...that's something I might get some use out of.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Did anyone else see this potential blockbuster at BoLS?
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=2215&highlight=tyranid&page=7
That's a heapin' helpin' of Tyranid love if those stats pan out. Maybe HBMC was onto something with the arbitrary thing. WS 9 Lictors? Lots of stuff with T8? 7 attack Carnifexes? Hmmm...Xas seems like a decently reputable source (from what very little I know about BoLS users), but I find it really hard to believe that they're going to produce a unit that has T8, 8 wounds, 7 attacks, and a 2+ save. I'm definitely not counting on any of this being accurate, but it's still interesting.
7767
Post by: SterlingSylver
H.B.M.C. wrote:Maybe they'll be the unit to get the random table!!!
Hyper-Evolution - Right before the end of your opponent's third shooting phase, roll 1D6 for every second Zoanthrope in your army:
1. THEY DIE! ARBY STRIKES AGAIN!
2. They don't die, but nothing happens.
3. PINEAPPLE!
4. Warp Scream.
5. Warp Scream that only affects Space Wolves.
6. The die next turn!!!!!!!
Let me be the first to say, "Nerf pineapple"
1099
Post by: Railguns
Carnifexes are so fraggin big that they would end up smashing things with their size whether they swung at them consciously or not. 7 attacks isn't too far out there.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Yeah, that doesn't seem THAT unreasonable, but the Hierodule makes me wonder.
1099
Post by: Railguns
Thats why I've always wanted them to have impact hits like the Stegadon in WHFB.
1047
Post by: Defiler
H.B.M.C. wrote:Maybe they'll be the unit to get the random table!!!
Hyper-Evolution - Right before the end of your opponent's third shooting phase, roll 1D6 for every second Zoanthrope in your army:
1. THEY DIE! ARBY STRIKES AGAIN!
2. They don't die, but nothing happens.
3. PINEAPPLE!
4. Warp Scream.
5. Warp Scream that only affects Space Wolves.
6. The die next turn!!!!!!!
Yeah, we get it. You don't like Warhammer.
When did you stop posting on topic? Like, years ago?
207
Post by: Balance
Back when I played Tyranids (3rd edition), I always liked the idea of Warriors much better than the reality.
The models are big and kinda-sorta cool, in a gangly mess of parts way. That's true for many Tyranids, though.
The rules have always seemed poor for them. They seem like they should be roughly equivalent to Space Marines in 'level of threat' (I.E. capable of fulfilling many roles, good at both shooting and melee, able to act as lone hunters, leaders, or other roles as required) but the rules made them point-sinks.
I'd love to see them as a flexible body of the army. Maybe some options to tweak different broods for different missions... Maybe a 'recon brood' with sneaky abilities, a 'command brood' that focuses on synapse, and a 'heavy brood' that focuses on shooting?
19431
Post by: HolyCause
Railguns wrote:The only model we have capable of causing a penetrating hit at all against a Necron monolith is a Carnifex, and only then on a 5+ if you pay points for an upgrade, if you even manage to catch it in hth at all.
why the heck even bother with a monolith? nids can drop so many strength 8 templates (thus denying WBB unless there's an orb near by) that phase out is much more viable than something that is only AP3
sucks that the new codex was announced recently, as basically the couple days before I went out and bought my current nid army. grumble indeed! 
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Defiler wrote:You don't like Warhammer.
Such a preposterous thing to say.
17155
Post by: bhsman
H.B.M.C. wrote:Defiler wrote:You don't like Warhammer.
Such a preposterous thing to say.
Nevertheless, you haven't been adding much to the discussion.
181
Post by: gorgon
MilkmanAl wrote:Did anyone else see this potential blockbuster at BoLS?
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=2215&highlight=tyranid&page=7
That's a heapin' helpin' of Tyranid love if those stats pan out. Maybe HBMC was onto something with the arbitrary thing. WS 9 Lictors? Lots of stuff with T8? 7 attack Carnifexes? Hmmm...Xas seems like a decently reputable source (from what very little I know about BoLS users), but I find it really hard to believe that they're going to produce a unit that has T8, 8 wounds, 7 attacks, and a 2+ save. I'm definitely not counting on any of this being accurate, but it's still interesting.
Like I said on Warpshadow, I think this may be from a legit playtest codex, but not the final version. There's some interesting stuff in there that doesn't look like your typical fan wishlist codex, and that makes me think there's some truth to it. Some standouts for me are the +2 attacks for scything talons, melta deathspitters and BS4 Zoanthropes. There's a cover save denial mine, and with lance and 2d6 armor penetration, bioacid can actually mess up vehicles. Warp field looks like a 2+/3+...nice.
And the Brood Magus...   I'm sure that won't make the final cut even if this is authentic, but I can dream.
Here's some food for thought. If the were going to make the Hierodule and/or Exocrine available for Apoc games, they might want to playtest it alongside the new codex. Especially if we get the Hierodule datasheet at the same time the codex is released.
4042
Post by: Da Boss
H.B.M.C. is like a Sith. Hate makes him strong, and leads to some interesting spectacles. I tend to treat him as a form of entertainment.
(also, his name is prone to mispelling, like poor old Dark Vader)
Or maybe not. I'm really tired.
I like the idea of 7 attack carnies though- bloodthirster beware!
2700
Post by: dietrich
H.B.M.C. wrote:Maybe they'll be the unit to get the random table!!!
Your table is too random. GW does a much better job of 'balancing' tables by having an equal number of good and bad chances. Because, that's balanced, right?
1 - You lose.
2 to 5 - Game continues as normal.
6 - You win.
See, by having equal odds to win and lose, that's balanced! Because, you know, that makes for good game design - random chance of something ridiculous happening!
Oh, wait, I see what you did here. You sucked me with your hate. I have to fight the Dark Side!
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
I think this may be from a legit playtest codex, but not the final version...If the were going to make the Hierodule and/or Exocrine available for Apoc games, they might want to playtest it alongside the new codex. Especially if we get the Hierodule datasheet at the same time the codex is released.
Sounds reasonable to me. There's no way the Hierodule is acceptable for non-Apocalypse games. Even if it cost 500 points, it'd still be broken as hell. 16 S10 venom cannon shots per turn from one model? Where do I sign up?
I agree that this "leak" doesn't seem totally outlandish or wishlisty with the exception of the Hierodule and Exocrine, but still, have a look at the Trygon. It seems to me that the Trygon is basically a lock for the new Nid codex, but it still has a really impressive stat line. Trygons are basically huge raveners, right, so I'm assuming it's going to Deep Strike and have a huge charge range, too? I'm not sure how they're going to make that work.
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
H.B.M.C. wrote:Maybe they'll be the unit to get the random table!!!
Hyper-Evolution - Right before the end of your opponent's third shooting phase, roll 1D6 for every second Zoanthrope in your army:
1. THEY DIE! ARBY STRIKES AGAIN!
2. They don't die, but nothing happens.
3. PINEAPPLE!
4. Warp Scream.
5. Warp Scream that only affects Space Wolves.
6. The die next turn!!!!!!!
Hey, its better than current Zoes, at least with that table there is a 1 out of 6 chance of getting a Pineapple...that is something I can actually use.
181
Post by: gorgon
MilkmanAl wrote:I think this may be from a legit playtest codex, but not the final version...If the were going to make the Hierodule and/or Exocrine available for Apoc games, they might want to playtest it alongside the new codex. Especially if we get the Hierodule datasheet at the same time the codex is released.
Sounds reasonable to me. There's no way the Hierodule is acceptable for non-Apocalypse games. Even if it cost 500 points, it'd still be broken as hell. 16 S10 venom cannon shots per turn from one model? Where do I sign up?
It'd be 8 shots, so only 4 hits on average. The +4 is for two sets of scything talons.
I agree that this "leak" doesn't seem totally outlandish or wishlisty with the exception of the Hierodule and Exocrine, but still, have a look at the Trygon. It seems to me that the Trygon is basically a lock for the new Nid codex, but it still has a really impressive stat line. Trygons are basically huge raveners, right, so I'm assuming it's going to Deep Strike and have a huge charge range, too? I'm not sure how they're going to make that work.
It'll probably cost 400 points, LOL.
Wonder if the Alpha units are HQ choices that operate like the HQ units in DoW II?
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
It'd be 8 shots, so only 4 hits on average. The +4 is for two sets of scything talons.
Oh, well that changes things completely.  I was wondering what the +(number) meant. That certainly makes scything way more enticing.
Wonder if the Alpha units are HQ choices that operate like the HQ units in DoW II?
here's hoping this isn't a seriously ignorant question, but how is that, exactly?
181
Post by: gorgon
In DoW, you can start with a Tyrant, Lictor Alpha or Ravener Alpha, and those affect what units you can field in your army.
So with that logic, the Broodlord could be a unit upgrade while the BL Alpha is the HQ choice that lets you field GS as Troops. The Ravener Alpha might let you move Raveners around...or field the Trygon?
Really just guessing here, and I'm not really sure what the point of a HT Alpha is. But the Alpha designation is curious, and it's not like GW has shied away from borrowing concepts for the DoW games.
270
Post by: winterman
Really just guessing here, and I'm not really sure what the point of a HT Alpha is.
Beyond being T8 and 6 wounds of synapse providing hardness? Well there was a rumor (same source IIRC) that a certain hive tyrant would allow warriors as troops.
Also this does match the 4 never before seen species thing: Trygon, Malanthorpe, Exocrine, Hierodule. Everything else has been in an old (old old) dex (magus) or is just a beefy version of old species (alphas). Of course that could just mean whoever wrote this wishlist was well aquainted with the rumors.
Xas' rumors sounds so wishlisty as to be unbelievable, but so did the IG summary rumors and they turned out to be pretty accurate. Then again I was fishhooked by that silly april fools day nid list 
399
Post by: AoD
Why on earth would you ever want to be forced to take Tyranid Warriors to fill your troops slots?
Unless there's an unimaginably massive change to warriors, that's another one of those "hand your opponent a win" options.
10193
Post by: Crazy_Carnifex
That looks kinda insane, but so did the IG tank list, Sterngaurd Vets, and Thunderfire Cannon, as well as probably a couple things from the Wolves Dex.
Lessee... 4 New species... Trygon, Malenthrope, Exocrine and Herodrule... Check. All four would be big, expensive kits, makeing lots of cash. Or they could be awesome kits reserved for latter waves.
I will say that, tentatively, these rumours are possible.
Edit:
Carnifex could become "Horde" Monsters, taken in brod of 1-3, While the Herodrule and Exocrene replace them as the Big Brutes that smash stuff, and the Trygon becomes Fast heavy support.
17155
Post by: bhsman
AoD wrote:Why on earth would you ever want to be forced to take Tyranid Warriors to fill your troops slots?
Unless there's an unimaginably massive change to warriors, that's another one of those "hand your opponent a win" options.
A new take on the Nidzilla list that uses Warriors over Genestealers for troops?
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Crazy_Carnifex wrote:That looks kinda insane, but so did the IG tank list, Sterngaurd Vets, and Thunderfire Cannon, as well as probably a couple things from the Wolves Dex.
Lessee... 4 New species... Trygon, Malenthrope, Exocrine and Herodrule... Check. All four would be big, expensive kits, makeing lots of cash. Or they could be awesome kits reserved for latter waves.
I will say that, tentatively, these rumours are possible.
I think they're unlikely but it would be nice for 'nids to have vehicle sized kits.
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
winterman wrote:Then again I was fishhooked by that silly april fools day nid list
Don't feel bad, it was a pretty well written dex. Had me fooled too when it came out.
399
Post by: AoD
bhsman wrote:AoD wrote:Why on earth would you ever want to be forced to take Tyranid Warriors to fill your troops slots?
Unless there's an unimaginably massive change to warriors, that's another one of those "hand your opponent a win" options.
A new take on the Nidzilla list that uses Warriors over Genestealers for troops?
With the same toughness, the same save, 1/3rd the number of models, no fleet, and fewer overall attacks and wounds? Sign me up!
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
We don't know if Troop-slot Warriors (if such a thing will exist) will or will not get Fleet.
I like the stats for the Lictor. That would definately make them worth 80pts. I always knew the lictor needed more attacks, an invul save and another wound.....if true it has ws9 as well....eat that Marines.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
gorgon wrote:Wonder if the Alpha units are HQ choices that operate like the HQ units in DoW II?
I think it's a safe bet that this will happen. I don't think Tyranids will get a huge suite of special characters (would be very hard to justify that), but they will get a lot of army-altering 'Alpha' characters.
181
Post by: gorgon
AoD wrote:bhsman wrote:AoD wrote:Why on earth would you ever want to be forced to take Tyranid Warriors to fill your troops slots?
Unless there's an unimaginably massive change to warriors, that's another one of those "hand your opponent a win" options.
A new take on the Nidzilla list that uses Warriors over Genestealers for troops?
With the same toughness, the same save, 1/3rd the number of models, no fleet, and fewer overall attacks and wounds? Sign me up!
Points values, special rules, biomorphs and weapons kits are kinda missing from the summary.
But if you want some advantages over 'stealers, they're starting with a 4+ save...it's possible they have access to a 3+. It's also reasonable to infer they could carry melta Deathspitters. That has to count for something. And you don't get 3 'stealers for every Warrior *now.* It's more like roughly 2:1. If it becomes 1.5:1...things start getting interesting, IMO.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
I'm thinking if this list is even 10% legit [4 gargant creatures I'm leery of as that'd make no sense (and I do realize H that you'll have a comment about designer sense) to release 4 units in a codex meant more for Apoc] that it IS possible for the Alpha's to unlock the respective Xenos subclass as Troops or allow extras.
SM's get Bikes of 5+ as Troops with Bike Captain, MotF allows 6 dreadnaughts, Pedro lets SG score (not the same in principle but the same in practice), Logan for SW allows WG as Troops so I could see 'Nids getting something similiar. Alpha Ravener allowing Raveners to count as scoring (can't see them as Troops really), Alpha BL allowing 'Stealers as Troops, Alpha Tyrant allowing Warriors as Troops.
Totally possible.
I think even just having a Trygon will make Marines and other Xenos fanbois cry "Favoritism" toward 'Nids by GW.
I th
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
4 Gargantuan creatures? No one's said that.
They've said four new species, not 4 new Gargantuan creatures.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
That list posted lists 4 gargantuans that is why I take that rumored quick ref with a bucket of salt. One (Trygon) has more or less been confirmed though (as close as we can get without actual "yes it will be in the codex" confirmation).
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Given that the Valk got downgraded friom Apoc Flyer to 40k Fast Skimmer, it's likely the the Gargantuans simply become MCs.
17155
Post by: bhsman
AoD wrote:With the same toughness, the same save, 1/3rd the number of models, no fleet, and fewer overall attacks and wounds? Sign me up!
How about some better armor saves and guns before you go and hurf durf? 
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Fateweaver wrote:That list posted lists 4 gargantuans that is why I take that rumored quick ref with a bucket of salt. One (Trygon) has more or less been confirmed though (as close as we can get without actual "yes it will be in the codex" confirmation).
Sorry to keep on about this, but what list listed 4 gargantuan creatures? The closest I've seen to that was the original rumour:
" -4 New Tyranid species never before seen in a codex, one of which will make the current carnifex "look like a dwarf"."
If you've read a different summary to the rest of us, please post it so we can add it to the melting pot.
20162
Post by: Minaith1989
I'm thinking that nids will perhaps receive a transport unit (yes i am aware of how ridiculous that sounds).BUT Malefactors supposedily carry other nids into battle so it seems reasonable to me that they could be included from that perspective. On the other hand, their huge and so im not sure it will be from amodelling perspective (having said that their doing a trigon?). It was just a thought really... =P
7413
Post by: Squig_herder
I know that one of the forge world models [one you listed above] does to transport but really, we dont wont it, otherwise we become just like everything else, just sick of copy and paste. Im happy to have something that allows more deepstriking thats written into fluff but im against any idea of a formal transport system.
18991
Post by: mikesorensonxx
H.B.M.C. wrote:Fateweaver wrote:That list posted lists 4 gargantuans that is why I take that rumored quick ref with a bucket of salt. One (Trygon) has more or less been confirmed though (as close as we can get without actual "yes it will be in the codex" confirmation).
Sorry to keep on about this, but what list listed 4 gargantuan creatures? The closest I've seen to that was the original rumour:
" -4 New Tyranid species never before seen in a codex, one of which will make the current carnifex "look like a dwarf"."
If you've read a different summary to the rest of us, please post it so we can add it to the melting pot.
It's refering to this
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=2215&highlight=tyranid&page=7
about half way down on page 31. St 7 carnifexes would worry me. I agree about the transport thing, but at least in the fluff our transports had the other creatures hang on to the sides to get carried, kind of like the harridan with a brood of gargoyles. I seriously doubt they would include a heirodule in the normal codex but then I was thinking, what if the trygon kit could make a heirodule too? It would only need a pair of legs, different tail, and different head mount more of less. It would be nice if they included an appocolypse only entry with options to customize the heirodule. All that would be nice, but makes too much sense. I'm sure I'll have to make heirodule conversions myself like I was planning.
15804
Post by: Klueless
This is an incredibly long thread. & do forgive me if I am just repeating something that someone has already said.
However. I have just got back from my local GW in Birmingham UK. The guy in there said that we are to expect a Plastic Tyrant, with wings in the kit. A Trygon. The return of Special Characters & some boosts to the lesser useful Tyranids that exist (Biovores). He also said that the new Codex will be available to view in store from December.
That's my 2c.
Cheers.
399
Post by: AoD
bhsman wrote:AoD wrote:With the same toughness, the same save, 1/3rd the number of models, no fleet, and fewer overall attacks and wounds? Sign me up!
How about some better armor saves and guns before you go and hurf durf?
Yeah, I wouldn't count on that unless they're getting a new model kit.
17155
Post by: bhsman
AoD wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't count on that unless they're getting a new model kit.
I mean that that's what they would offer over Genestealers: better saves and access to ranged guns. And, admitted I don't play Tyranids (yet), so what's wrong with the current Warriors kit?
1099
Post by: Railguns
Sorry, but I just glanced at this page and saw S7 Carnifexes? Gimme a break.
9891
Post by: RUNE
bhsman wrote:AoD wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't count on that unless they're getting a new model kit.
I mean that that's what they would offer over Genestealers: better saves and access to ranged guns. And, admitted I don't play Tyranids (yet), so what's wrong with the current Warriors kit?
Genestealers with ranged guns? NO WAY!
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
Wow, way to misread.
bhsman is saying that warriors as troops would offer ranged guns whereas stealers have no range. That would be the advantage to warriors over stealers, even if the model count is lower.
9891
Post by: RUNE
ouch
1099
Post by: Railguns
And apparently melta-deathspitters(the re-cut warrior sprue no longer contains deathspitters)
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
bhsman wrote:I mean that that's what they would offer over Genestealers: better saves and access to ranged guns. And, admitted I don't play Tyranids (yet), so what's wrong with the current Warriors kit?
1. There is a pair of scythin talons that are too big for warriors but too dorky for fexes.
2. The rending claws don't look good. They look like they'd get sycuk in someone not slash through them.
3. The barbed strangler/venom cannon, well it looks like a cross between the two and does poorly to represent both. I had to pull it off it was so poor.
But that is just IMO. And I don't want people saying I'm a loser for saying this stuff.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well the newer one that comes with the current Hive Tyrant is better - its guns are bigger and the talons fit with the current style.
15884
Post by: ghosty
i just checked the GW site and clicked the incoming tyranids button....and i saw.....oh god i cant believe what i saw......they cant bring squats back!!! they just....cant!
oh btw though looks like mycetic spores wil be in the new tyranids army book.....as you know...theres one on the front.
but seriously.
dwarfs in space -.o
it looks like a bloody warhamer engineer model with a bloody enginseerbackpack!!!
1099
Post by: Railguns
It's not a Squat. It's the White Dwarf in space.
19057
Post by: oldone
Sort of going off topic but still it is a white dawft in space
now bringing it back on topic having hioudules (sos about spelling) in the codex isn't a bad thing but i thought they where going to move us away from MC spaming like nidzillla too a more horde sytle thing are is it going to be a mix like 30-40 of gaunts too 2-3 MC and a few warriors and genstealler ized models?
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
The Hierodule would single-handedly break the game if it was available for non-Apoc games. That isn't going to happen. If the point cost rumors (3 point base Gaunts with WoN, 6 point, 3A Hormagaunts) are true, we should see substantial horde components to new Tyranid armies. Those costs are way too good to pass up.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
MilkmanAl wrote:The Hierodule would single-handedly break the game if it was available for non-Apoc games.
How, exactly? 'Cause it has Bio-Cannons? Because it has more wounds than most things? How exactly?
Super-Heavies and Gargantuan Creatures really aren't all that durable. The perception is that they lay waste to everything before them, but the truth is often far removed from that perception.
9964
Post by: Broken Loose
MilkmanAl wrote:The Hierodule would single-handedly break the game if it was available for non-Apoc games. That isn't going to happen. If the point cost rumors (3 point base Gaunts with WoN, 6 point, 3A Hormagaunts) are true, we should see substantial horde components to new Tyranid armies. Those costs are way too good to pass up.
Huh, kind of like how certain armies have absolutely no way of even harming AV14, not even considering the glancing/rending nerfs?
Or how Fliers would single-handedly break non- Apoc games?
Or 6 point Boyz with an extra attack, fleet, and furious charge?
I'm not saying Heirodules will be in the codex, but currently they're just large and expensive gun platforms (that almost can't get cover saves) with demolisher cannons that fire shots instead of large blasts-- from a BS3 model. Or is that too overpowered for you? Or how about that they don't even have the decency to get invulnerable saves in addition to being inable to get cover saves? If you fire 4 meltaguns at a vehicle, you still have to roll 7+ on 2D6 and then a 4+ to destroy. If you fire 4 meltaguns at a tyranid, all you have to do is not roll 1's and you've already done your damage.
In fact, removing the Gargantuan creature rule (like what happened with the Valkyrie) would take away 12" movement and immunity to psychic powers, turning them into nothing more than very pricey Carnifexes with an indiscriminate batch of stacked defensive biomorphs.
270
Post by: winterman
Compare the rough cost of that heirodule to the current carnifex. You can probably get 5 cheap carnifexes for the points of one heirodule. I think the 5 carnifexes are a stronger option: 2.5 times more wounds, way more shooting and assault potential, more targets and more opportunities to contest objectives, etc etc. Even if it was 4 carnifexes they'd still be a better buy overall. Nidzilla doesn't break the game now so I can't see a hierodule doing so. T8 is tough but there's quite alot of anti-tank weaponry out there that will care less. Just ask any eldar players.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Assuming it's a normal game option, I'm not convinced it's going to be as expensive as you think. I'd bet it'll be in the 400 point range, tops, and I would sure as hell take a Hierodule over 3.5 cheap Carnifexes (under current rules, that is). At least AV14 things have a chance to be popped immediately with the proper weaponry and might lose effectiveness as the game goes on. This guy is still there pumping out 8 S10 AP3 shots or 8 S10 attacks per turn until that last wound is gone. All the conventional anti-MC weaponry is a hell of a lot less effective against it, too. What if you can have more than one of them? Then what happens? Each one is going to take a huge amount of focused high-strength firepower to kill; no lucky shots are going to bring them down.
I dunno, maybe it won't be totally broken if they make them cost 600+ points, but I don't see that happening. Again, I'm betting this is an Apoc-only monster.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
I Kinda like the idea of having a heirodule in a non apoc but I dont think that it would be cost effective. Also biomorphs need to stay and I like the S based ranged system. It's not hard to do everyone I've played against understands it all they asks is for an army list. And the Alpha beast thing is just like the ork dex, WarBoss gives troop nobs, Big mek gives dred troop, wazdakka biker troops.
12304
Post by: Wannabe Writer
I don't think Hierodules will be in the codex. It would be like putting the Baneblade in the Imp Guard dex, which they didn't do.
Plus Hierodules are not as indestructable as you might think. In current Apoc rules they are toughness 8 with a save of +3. I've had my two Hierodules taken down by lascannon fire, melta guns, a squad of termies with power fists, anything that is designed to kill power armour will do the job. Their durability comes from being fast and having plenty of attacks (scythed) or plenty of high strength shots (barbed) and having six wounds (which don't last long in an Apoc game). I still use mine as they are fun to use and look really impressive, however they rarely last more then a turn or two when they arrive (they make for a pretty big bullet magnet).
In the past, before Apocalypse, you could use them in 40K games using the Forge World rules. Then they were nigh indestructable. They had a 2+ save (I still don't know why they didn't get that in Apoc, especially when a Fex can have a +2 save), lots of wounds, high toughness and mass points! Mass points meant it was extremely hard to wound them and even once the mass points were gone it still had six wounds. The barbed hierodule was not as good as it's current Apoc version, what with the cannons counting as twin linked single large blast Str 8 Ap 3 and only 2 attacks basic in CC. The scythed was amazing however, with 5 attacks basic and an Ap 3 heavy flamer in it's back. Plus in the Forge World rules enemies were not pushed back from combat at the end of each turn, so if you failed to wipe out a sqd in one go you could carry on whacking them till the job was done. The only drawback was that as they were so big the rules stated you could still shoot at a hierodule in CC as long as the model it was in CC with was not another gargantuan creature/super heavy.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
JohnHwangDD wrote:@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?
Yeah, I guess so. We need a gaunt command, providing a small extension to the range of a synapse creature.
20124
Post by: Neith
Wannabe Writer wrote:I don't think Hierodules will be in the codex. It would be like putting the Baneblade in the Imp Guard dex, which they didn't do.
Plus Hierodules are not as indestructable as you might think. In current Apoc rules they are toughness 8 with a save of +3. I've had my two Hierodules taken down by lascannon fire, melta guns, a squad of termies with power fists, anything that is designed to kill power armour will do the job. Their durability comes from being fast and having plenty of attacks (scythed) or plenty of high strength shots (barbed) and having six wounds (which don't last long in an Apoc game). I still use mine as they are fun to use and look really impressive, however they rarely last more then a turn or two when they arrive (they make for a pretty big bullet magnet).
Yeah, I think when I get my Hierodule (Scythed), I'll use it as a shocktroop- move it as fast as possible into the enemy lines and kill as much as possible before going down in a spectacular fashion. T8 is hard to wound, but most Heavy Weapons will have no problem taking it down (Lascannon would only need 3+ to Wound and would punch through the Hierodule's armour straight away, as it has no Inv save). To me, it just stands out as a much bigger, faster, more badass Carnifex. Realistically, when you bring a model onto the field that is so big, it's going to attract a lot of attention/bullets/death. You know its time will be shortlived, so you have to make the most use of it while you can. Outside of Apoc though...it'd be a force to be reckoned with- I don't think I'd use one in regular 40k, because it seems a bit unfair to use
I'm not sure it'll be in the Codex though; maybe one large unit (I'm thinking Trygon or Malanthrope, if anything), but not as many as that list made out.
Can't wait for the Codex, and can't wait to go get a Hierodule
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Tim the Biovore wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?
Yeah, I guess so.
We need a gaunt command, providing a small extension to the range of a synapse creature.
OK, just checking.
You *had* a Gaunt command "Hive Node" or somesuch in your previous Codex, didn't you?
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
JohnHwangDD wrote:Tim the Biovore wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?
Yeah, I guess so.
We need a gaunt command, providing a small extension to the range of a synapse creature.
OK, just checking.
You *had* a Gaunt command "Hive Node" or somesuch in your previous Codex, didn't you?
Yep, back in 3rd edition. Very usefull as guants didn't need to be chaparoned by otherwise slow synapse.
666
Post by: Necros
Dunno if this was posted, looked around and didn't see it.. guy in my club posted this on our board, he found somewhere else on the web. Usual grains of salt shall required, but...
today I had a chat with my friend again. When I asked him if he could tell me any more about the nids he produced a sheet of paper which looked quite like the summary sheet you get at the last pages.
When he went for the tiolett I quickly took out a pen and copiet as much as I was able to.
take from this what you want but I think there are several exciting bits (look at that hive tyrant alpha... or the fact that the hierodule is in!). any ideas what the two weapon attributes "strangle" and "subconscious weapon" could be?
Creatures: WS Bs S T W I A LDS Sv:A Sv:I
Hive Tyrant 5 3 5 6 4 5 3 10 3
Hive Tyrant Alpha 7 4 7 8 6 7 6 10 2
Tyrant guard 5 3 5 6 2 5 2+2 10 3
Broodlord 6 3 5 5 3 7 3+2 10 4
Broodlord Alpha 8 3 6 5 4 9 7+2 10 3
Brood Magus 5 4 4 4 3 6 3 10 2 4
Tyranid Warrior 4 2 4 4 2 4 2+2 10 4
Tyranid Warrior: Winged 4 2 4 4 2 4 2+2 10 5
Tyranid Warrior: Guardian 5 3 5 5 2 4 2+2 10 3
Lictor 9 0 6 4 3 9 3+2 10 5 4
Genestealer 6 0 4 4 1 6 2 10 5
Gaunt 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 5 6
Hormagaunt 4 3 3 3 1 4 1+2 5 6
Ripper Swarm 3 1 3 3 3 2 3 10 6
Ravener 5 3 4 4 2 5 3 10 5
Ravener Alpha 7 4 6 5 4 7 6 10 3
Trygon 6 3 8 7 6 5 8 10 2 4
Gargoyle 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 10 6
Zoantrophe 3 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 2 3
Malantrope 3 4 6 5 4 4 5 10 2 3
Exocrene 3 4 10 8 6 1 3 10 2 4
Biovore 3 3 4 5 2 1 1 10 3
Carnifex 4 2 7 6 4 3 3+4 10 3
Hierodule 4 3 10 8 8 3 4+4 10 2
Weapons: Range S AP
Barbed Strangler 36" S-1 5 Assoult 1 5" Blast, Strangle
Devourer 18" S-1 - Assoult 2X Living Ammonition, max S:6
Deathspitter 24" S+1 5 Assoult 1 3" Blast, Melta
Fleshborer 12" S+1 5 Assoult X Living Ammonition, max S:6
Spinebanks 12" S 5 Assoult X Twin Linked, Subconscious Weapon
Venom Cannon 36" S+2 4 Assoult 2X Poison (2+)
Biocannon 48" S 3 Assoult 2X
Mines: S AP
Bioazid 5 3 3" Blast Lance, 2d6 vs Armor
Toxic Gas 3 - 3" Blast Poison (2+), no cover saves allowed
Strangler 2 5 5" Blast Strangle
Spine Frag 6 4 5" Blast
I hope this isnt against copyrights but technically the dex isnt yet out so this could also all be wrong?.
also this morsel
There was much talk about the Tyranid codex. He started off by saying he can't talk about specifics. He was however, quite amenable to talking about the issues with the current Lictor rules.
"Well yeah, the way the rules for them work at the moment just doesn't make much sense with the current edition. Why would they be encountering 'dangerous terrain' if they were hiding in it all along..."
Continuing on, he talked about the design process a little.
"When we sit down to work on the new codex, we had a big pile of letters with all the issues of the last codex in them. So we basically split it into 3 piles. Must-fix. Should-fix. Then a would-be-nice. Now, I won't be giving much away by saying the first pile was filled with Spore Mine and lictor issues. I think what we've done with the Lictor is the best representation yet of their abilities. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?"
Someone also asked him "whether biomorphs are back?"
"Well, I can't talk about specifics, however, you should take a look at the 5th edition codexes, they all follow a similar format with their army lists. The tyranid codex continues the same way, so make of that what you will."
I think that's games developer speak for, "there will be biomorph upgrades and they will take the form of the 'every squad member may take adrenal gland upgrades for +X points per model.'"
Lastly, a found another post the describes the Broodlord makes Genestealers a troops choice!
19057
Post by: oldone
Why are you coplianing that the an garaguew creatue is in the codex if you don't like it just don't use it like the thunder clavery from space pups if you just don't ike them just don't use them 
4139
Post by: wuestenfux
Latest news from The Dude from Warseer:
General info
Released January 2010
Written by Robin Cruddace and 96 pages long.
Codex Cover – Art by Adrian Smith
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attach...9&d=1254136277
Box art background:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attach...9&d=1254475533
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attach...8&d=1254475499
Rules
Army-wide Special Rules and Biomorphs
Many and new improved psychic abilities in the book.
The Incoming Tyranids article on the GW website makes mention of new Tyranid Species. The Trygon is likely one, but there may be more (possibly up to 4 total).
HQ
Hive Tyrant – No news yet
Tyrant Guard – No news yet
Broodlord – Early rumours of the Broodlord allowing Elite Genestealers as Troops.
Elites
Tyranid Warriors - More emphasis on Tyranid Warriors in this book, perhaps even allowing you to take them in every FOC slot. For example if they have wings then they're Fast Attack, Tougher/Stronger and heavy weapons in Heavy Support etc.
Lictor – Possibly an additional “psychic" variant
Troops
Genestealers – No news yet
Gaunts – No news yet
Ripper Swarm – No news yet
Fast Attack
Gargoyles – No news yet
Raveners – No news yet
Spore Mines – No news yet
Heavy Support
Carnifex – No news yet
Biovore – Rumoured new type believed to have a Pyro Acid spray weapon.
Zoanthrope – No news yet
Trygon - Different builds available, presumably with different powers ala Carnifex kit.
Minis
Games workshop have said here that there will be 3 new Plastic kits and 3 new metal models released with the Codex.
Trygon (Plastic kit) – No news yet
Gargoyles (Plastic kit) – No news yet
Raveners (Plastic kit) – No news yet
Metal Miniatures – One rumoured to be a Biovore (likely the new Biovore variant). No news on the others.
__________________
270
Post by: winterman
@necros: That summary is from BoLS lounge and there's a link to it 2 pages back. That is what the last two pages are discussing. And yeah salt is needed.
The last part is from warseer though and is apparently Robin Cruddace. I found it interesting that they actually reviewed peoples concerns and decided what to do about them.
4139
Post by: wuestenfux
winterman wrote:
The last part is from warseer though and is apparently Robin Cruddace. I found it interesting that they actually reviewed peoples concerns and decided what to do about them.
This was particularly the case with the new Space Marines.
They asked players at Warseer, not directly but via Brimstone.
666
Post by: Necros
I dunno why they have to ask via anyone.
Why can't they just put a web page on their site that says "Hi kids, we're working on XYZ army and we'd like to hear your thoughts on what you love or hate about them now so we can fix them with the new codex. click here to email us."
6051
Post by: avantgarde
Because then GW would have to communicate with the unwashed masses, and when I say unwashed I literally mean unwashed. Haven't you seen that subtle sneer of contempt on the GW rep who has to present slayer swords or golden daemons?
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
oldone wrote:Why are you coplianing that the an garaguew creatue is in the codex if you don't like it just don't use it like the thunder clavery from space pups if you just don't ike them just don't use them
I think someone sneezed and scrambled your sentence. Seriously, those squiggly red lines are there for a reason.
Why can't they just put a web page on their site that says "Hi kids, we're working on XYZ army and we'd like to hear your thoughts on what you love or hate about them now so we can fix them with the new codex. click here to email us."
Face control. It's kind of arbitrary who GW chooses to go through, and while that go-between's opinions will certainly be reflected in which ideas and concepts get passed along, it's better than them getting an avalanche of ZOMG FIX SPOR MIENS! emails or having to sort through all the "make Terminators S5, T5, W2 for the same cost" wishlisting. In other words, they save time by having a bull  filter.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
Face control. It's kind of arbitrary who GW chooses to go through, and while that go-between's opinions will certainly be reflected in which ideas and concepts get passed along, it's better than them getting an avalanche of ZOMG FIX SPOR MIENS! emails or having to sort through all the "make Terminators S5, T5, W2 for the same cost" wishlisting. In other words, they save time by having a bull filter.
I'm going to haft to agree with you I mean they should ask people but getting a large crowd of people to shout ideas is never a good thing.
I do have a problem with making apoc creature in the new codex which stats do you use? maybe IG players can answer that one.
14411
Post by: Elliotminorkid
TBD wrote:Some guys who work across the street from the sister in law of the mailman who lives two blocks from Jervis Johnson's pedicure might have heard.
But I can't confirm it.
Lol brilliant . Its skaven next anyways, theres even pics on the gw site.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Maybe, but the big revelation at Game Day or whatever was that the Tyranid codex is due out in January. That much is confirmed. It's all the rumblings about what's actually in the codex that have not been confirmed.
1099
Post by: Railguns
Those warseer links for the boxart aren't working.
9950
Post by: RogueMarket
I heard that the Tyranid Creature Creator is coming back.
(Or i think i heard that from the voices from my head! Lmfao)
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
You mean the one where you could make a lots-of-wounds, T10 creature for 300 points or less? Yeah, that was a pretty successful idea.
744
Post by: Anarchyman99
gorgon wrote:AoD wrote:bhsman wrote:AoD wrote:Why on earth would you ever want to be forced to take Tyranid Warriors to fill your troops slots?
Unless there's an unimaginably massive change to warriors, that's another one of those "hand your opponent a win" options.
A new take on the Nidzilla list that uses Warriors over Genestealers for troops?
With the same toughness, the same save, 1/3rd the number of models, no fleet, and fewer overall attacks and wounds? Sign me up!
Points values, special rules, biomorphs and weapons kits are kinda missing from the summary. But if you want some advantages over 'stealers, they're starting with a 4+ save...it's possible they have access to a 3+. It's also reasonable to infer they could carry melta Deathspitters. That has to count for something. And you don't get 3 'stealers for every Warrior *now.* It's more like roughly 2:1. If it becomes 1.5:1...things start getting interesting, IMO.
As well as a troop unit that can hold and objective without being paper thin. If someone else said the same thing disreguard I'm on page 32 of 34 at the time of posting.
9950
Post by: RogueMarket
MilkmanAl wrote:You mean the one where you could make a lots-of-wounds, T10 creature for 300 points or less? Yeah, that was a pretty successful idea.
totally.
I made a creature that shot hella krak missile equivalent lol.
Who says nids can't anti tank?! hahaha.
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
5th edition that's who
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Scryer in the Dark added prices and price codes to the Warseer summary:
Scryer in the Dark wrote:
99110106063 <Tyranids metal box code> £18.00 / US$33.00 / 26,00€ / Oz$55.00
99060106064 <Tyranids metal blister code> £10.00 / US$16.50 / 13,00€ / Oz$28.00
99120106016 <Tyranids plastic box code> £27.00 / US$44.50 / 35,00€ / Oz$74.00
99120106018 <Tyranids plastic box code> £18.00 / US$29.00 / 22,75€ / Oz$48.00
99120106019 <Tyranids plastic box code> £30.00 / US$49.50 / 39,00€ / Oz$83.00
We don't know what's what... but I'm guessing the $50 box is the Trygon.
9950
Post by: RogueMarket
Rather cheap.. for a tyrgon!
Does anyone know how strong tygon is.. in FW rules wise?
12955
Post by: Grimhowl
RogueMarket wrote:Rather cheap.. for a tyrgon!
Does anyone know how strong tygon is.. in FW rules wise?
I've faced them in a couple of apocalypse games and because it can't assault the turn that it arrives(although we may have been playing that incorrectly), it can be taken down by alot of shooting. Now I'm guessing if they put it in the codex they will alter it's rules somewhat, but it currently only has a rather weak ranged attack so it really needs to get into assault. I've yet to see that happen.
1099
Post by: Railguns
It has a 6+ invulnerable save. From that alone you can tell that the entire rule set for it is soft-balled.
17692
Post by: Farmer
I've heard some pretty insane rumors on warseer.
Something about OldOneEye coming back and allowing you to take 1 Canifex for every troop choice unit would be insane!
And RedTerror allow Raveners as troops....
4139
Post by: wuestenfux
Something about OldOneEye coming back and allowing you to take 1 Canifex for every troop choice unit would be insane!
That would be good.
Nidzilla with 6 Carnifexes would necessitate 6 troop units.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
Nidzilla with 6 Carnifexes would necessitate 6 troop units.
people at my flgs hate it when i use 3. They're going to hate me.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
There's stuff on that list with 6 wounds. That alone makes me think that this isn't a legit list. All the "alpha" variants like in Dawn of War 2 make me think similarly. Also, weren't Heirodules completely invalidated by Carnifexes?
1099
Post by: Railguns
I am inclined to severely disbelieve the second part of that rumour. Therefore it must be fair game as far as GW is concerned.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
RogueMarket wrote:Rather cheap.. for a tyrgon!
consideing a FW baneblade = £ 146.80 and a GW one is £60 (which is roughly 40% of the orginal price) then it would make sense for the GW trygon to be either the £27 or the £30 box
7625
Post by: Alex Kolodotschko
There's not much more plastic in a trygon than there is in a carnifex box by my reckoning.
Think of all of the extra weapons/biomorphs etc.
£30 sounds about right. I'll buy 2.
9964
Post by: Broken Loose
Trygons are smaller than land raiders, valkyries, or monoliths. 50 bucks seems appropriate.
Also, about the "killyness" of trygons: they're a step between fexes and tyrants statwise. The only thing that makes them superheavy-worthy is the gargantuan creature rule, just like removing the flier rule makes valkyries rather tame in regular games.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Gargantuan creature is a bit of a two edged sword. In close combat with almost everyone near you, but may always be shot... and I think there is some special attack. The first two bits can be covered with additional rules... and mass points are just a fancy way of saying uber wounds, which can be replaced with no insta-kill and a lot of normal wounds.
Its like the land raider, monoliths, and Valkyrie, they straddle the line of scales and scope and could be justified either as big vehicle or small superheavies; the trygon, ig monstrous creature or small gargantuan creature.
20124
Post by: Neith
aka_mythos wrote:Scryer in the Dark added prices and price codes to the Warseer summary:
Scryer in the Dark wrote:
99110106063 <Tyranids metal box code> £18.00 / US$33.00 / 26,00€ / Oz$55.00
99060106064 <Tyranids metal blister code> £10.00 / US$16.50 / 13,00€ / Oz$28.00
99120106016 <Tyranids plastic box code> £27.00 / US$44.50 / 35,00€ / Oz$74.00
99120106018 <Tyranids plastic box code> £18.00 / US$29.00 / 22,75€ / Oz$48.00
99120106019 <Tyranids plastic box code> £30.00 / US$49.50 / 39,00€ / Oz$83.00
We don't know what's what... but I'm guessing the $50 box is the Trygon.
If I had to guess:
£18 metal box: No idea
£10 metal blister: New biovore?
£27 plastic box: Raveners?
£18 plastic box: Gargoyles?
£30 plastic box: Trygon/Malanthrope?
Looking forward to the release; I'm just starting 'Nids now, so I'm playing it safe with what I buy (if I need to remodel, I can always 'counts as', I guess).
5344
Post by: Shep
Neith wrote:aka_mythos wrote:Scryer in the Dark added prices and price codes to the Warseer summary:
Scryer in the Dark wrote:
99110106063 <Tyranids metal box code> £18.00 / US$33.00 / 26,00€ / Oz$55.00
99060106064 <Tyranids metal blister code> £10.00 / US$16.50 / 13,00€ / Oz$28.00
99120106016 <Tyranids plastic box code> £27.00 / US$44.50 / 35,00€ / Oz$74.00
99120106018 <Tyranids plastic box code> £18.00 / US$29.00 / 22,75€ / Oz$48.00
99120106019 <Tyranids plastic box code> £30.00 / US$49.50 / 39,00€ / Oz$83.00
We don't know what's what... but I'm guessing the $50 box is the Trygon.
If I had to guess:
£18 metal box: No idea
£10 metal blister: New biovore?
£27 plastic box: Raveners?
£18 plastic box: Gargoyles?
£30 plastic box: Trygon/Malanthrope?
Looking forward to the release; I'm just starting 'Nids now, so I'm playing it safe with what I buy (if I need to remodel, I can always 'counts as', I guess).
This looks fun... lemme try!
$33.00 metal box- Current biovore is a $29 box... Nothing else fits the description except a larger, all metal kit. That would be awful. Here are the goalposts. It is more expensive than a bloodcrusher, and less expensive than the metal hive tyrant. I wish it weren't true, but that is very likely a big biovore and some metal spore mines.
$16.50 metal blister- Ok, this is a SMALL model. EVERY metal blister in the current nid range is over $20 dollars. This isn't the broodlord, it isn't a lictor, it isn't a zoanthrope. Sadly, this is either a 25MM based metal infantry model, or its a blister pack with 6 metal spore mines in it.
$44.50 plastic box- GW could be trying to get $44 bucks for 3 raveners from us. The goal posts for this price point are. More expensive than any infantry box, A little bit less than even the cheapest large monster kit. More than a razorback, much less than a land raider. It is the exact same cost as 3 space marine bikes, but $9 more than three warriors. This might just be a rotten price gouge.
$29.00 plastic box- This smells like 8 25mm based plastic models. 5 of the large and quite detailed Stormboys are $25. Here is to hoping that this is 8 gargoyles.
$49.50 plastic box- This isn't the trygon. Trygon is $58.00 if and when it comes out. It doesn't matter how much plastic it actually contains, GW knows it can get valkyrie pricing for it, and by the looks of all the rising costs of other models, they aren't going to offer some kind of deal for the trygon. The $50 goal post is simple. Hellhounds are $50, the new leman russ is $50. This could very well be a plastic hive tyrant. I will not declare plastic tyrant for sure, because in looking at the arbitrary price tag of $50 for 5 terminators, I could see GW having the gall to charge something like this for a box of 3-4 raveners.
7351
Post by: Warmaster Primus
Does anyone think that they'd redo the biovore? It seems like a pretty new sculpt.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Warmaster Primus wrote:Does anyone think that they'd redo the biovore? It seems like a pretty new sculpt.
Possibly , they keep redoing lictors and biovores and they always look ugly -_-
5344
Post by: Shep
Warmaster Primus wrote:Does anyone think that they'd redo the biovore? It seems like a pretty new sculpt.
I don't think so. i quite like the sculpt, and it was released when cities of death was released so it isn't that old. This metal box set could also be one of the "new" unit types bragged about but not clarified by Phil Kelly at UKGD.
10193
Post by: Crazy_Carnifex
Shep wrote:Neith wrote:aka_mythos wrote:Scryer in the Dark added prices and price codes to the Warseer summary:
Scryer in the Dark wrote:
99110106063 <Tyranids metal box code> £18.00 / US$33.00 / 26,00€ / Oz$55.00
99060106064 <Tyranids metal blister code> £10.00 / US$16.50 / 13,00€ / Oz$28.00
99120106016 <Tyranids plastic box code> £27.00 / US$44.50 / 35,00€ / Oz$74.00
99120106018 <Tyranids plastic box code> £18.00 / US$29.00 / 22,75€ / Oz$48.00
99120106019 <Tyranids plastic box code> £30.00 / US$49.50 / 39,00€ / Oz$83.00
We don't know what's what... but I'm guessing the $50 box is the Trygon.
If I had to guess:
£18 metal box: No idea
£10 metal blister: New biovore?
£27 plastic box: Raveners?
£18 plastic box: Gargoyles?
£30 plastic box: Trygon/Malanthrope?
Looking forward to the release; I'm just starting 'Nids now, so I'm playing it safe with what I buy (if I need to remodel, I can always 'counts as', I guess).
This looks fun... lemme try!
$33.00 metal box- Current biovore is a $29 box... Nothing else fits the description except a larger, all metal kit. That would be awful. Here are the goalposts. It is more expensive than a bloodcrusher, and less expensive than the metal hive tyrant. I wish it weren't true, but that is very likely a big biovore and some metal spore mines.
$16.50 metal blister- Ok, this is a SMALL model. EVERY metal blister in the current nid range is over $20 dollars. This isn't the broodlord, it isn't a lictor, it isn't a zoanthrope. Sadly, this is either a 25MM based metal infantry model, or its a blister pack with 6 metal spore mines in it.
$44.50 plastic box- GW could be trying to get $44 bucks for 3 raveners from us. The goal posts for this price point are. More expensive than any infantry box, A little bit less than even the cheapest large monster kit. More than a razorback, much less than a land raider. It is the exact same cost as 3 space marine bikes, but $9 more than three warriors. This might just be a rotten price gouge.
$29.00 plastic box- This smells like 8 25mm based plastic models. 5 of the large and quite detailed Stormboys are $25. Here is to hoping that this is 8 gargoyles.
$49.50 plastic box- This isn't the trygon. Trygon is $58.00 if and when it comes out. It doesn't matter how much plastic it actually contains, GW knows it can get valkyrie pricing for it, and by the looks of all the rising costs of other models, they aren't going to offer some kind of deal for the trygon. The $50 goal post is simple. Hellhounds are $50, the new leman russ is $50. This could very well be a plastic hive tyrant. I will not declare plastic tyrant for sure, because in looking at the arbitrary price tag of $50 for 5 terminators, I could see GW having the gall to charge something like this for a box of 3-4 raveners.
My turn!
$33 Metal Box- Biovore with spore mines, Red Terror, possibly lictor or Zoanthrope
$16 Blister- Either a broodlord or Genestealer Magus, or spore mine pack
$45 Plastic Box- Could be Ravenors, Warriors, or large gaunts box
$29 Plastic Box- Could be Gargoyles, maybe recut warriors or some ravenors.
$50 Plastic Box- Could be a Trygon. Similar price to a carnifex, probably both involveing similar amounts of plastic. Could be a plastic
Tyrant/Flyrant.
After all, even if these are real prices, they are subject to change.
1099
Post by: Railguns
I'm of the opinion that they have yet to make a decent Biovore model. Although they've been getting more detailed, they've been getting uglier and uglier with each decision. The designs in the last batch of concept art got us so excited just to have us all shocked when the new biovores came out.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
Well raveners are no longer available from GW online, so they are being resculpted. Biovores however are not sadly. As for the other kits and blisters, no idea for only time, the GW staff and a squid named Bertie can tell.
18991
Post by: mikesorensonxx
Tim the Biovore wrote:Well raveners are no longer available from GW online, so they are being resculpted. Biovores however are not sadly. As for the other kits and blisters, no idea for only time, the GW staff and a squid named Bernie can tell.
which country? They are still on the US site.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
Australia. But I now think it's a mistake. I just searched them and it said Tyranids showing 2 of 2 with nothing up.
181
Post by: gorgon
I agree with Shep. I doubt they price a Trygon at $50 when they could easily get $60, and given the price of the existing FW model (which people are obviously willing to pay). It'd be great for customers if true, but it'd be some bad pricing work on the part of GW's marketers.
I tend to think the $50 box is the Raveners. Unless it's the Malanthrope...that could fit in at about that range, but we've had zero buzz about it getting a plastic kit in the first wave. Could the next most expensive box be Warrior recuts? There's been rumors about some kind of Biovore variant...wonder if that's the $33 box?
I have a feeling we're going to get some sticker shock when things are revealed. I just did an inventory last night of my unpainted Tyranid stuff, and I basically have a second army's worth. Given that I already have a ton of painted stuff, I think I'm actually in good shape to "weather" the new codex without dropping too much $$$. I'll probably get sucked in by new Raveners (assuming the rules are decent). I already have a FW Trygon, so I'm set there if that's in the book. The Malanthrope makes me worry a little, LOL. Don't really look forward to throwing another $60-70 FW's way...
686
Post by: aka_mythos
The trygon isn't big enough to really be a larger pricier kit. My bet is that we'll see Carnifex nerfed and the only viable nidzilla list will be with multiple Trygons.
181
Post by: gorgon
Hey, I could be wrong. But IMO it's not about the amount of material...it's what you can get people to pay for it. And when the FW kit sells at about $120, it's very hard to imagine GW giving us a 60% price break off the resin version.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
I'll play:
Tyranids metal box US$33.00 = Broodlord (bigger and more expensive)
Tyranids metal blister US$16.50 = 1 Ravenor ($16 is too cheap for a Broodlord)
Tyranids plastic box US$44.50 = Hive Tyrant (plastic HQ to go with plastic Troops)
Tyranids plastic box US$29.00 = 5 Gargoyles (minimum size, cost like AM, but more $)
Tyranids plastic box US$49.50 = 3 Heavy Warriors (minimum size, cost like Devs, but more $$$)!
Trygon will be later, price like a Valk ($$$$), and just as indispensible.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
gorgon wrote:Hey, I could be wrong. But IMO it's not about the amount of material...it's what you can get people to pay for it. And when the FW kit sells at about $120, it's very hard to imagine GW giving us a 60% price break off the resin version.
The same thing was said of the Valkyrie and the Baneblade. They aren't priced at the same level as Forgeworld. $125 down to $58. The Baneblade from $230 to $100. A 55% and 58% percent decrease. The Trygon is currently $120... so at the same cost down as a Valkyrie its $53 at that of the Baneblade its at $50 my main rational for why it would be the lower price is that the model isn't that volumous... which when your talking the $1000's of difference in a molds costs can be the difference. The Carnifex is only three sprues, thats all the Trygon needs, and really the Trygon will likely just get the weapon sprue from the carnifex to cover its "new options".
Believe it or not GW is becoming aware of price sensitivity. They'll never admit it, but its the main reason we're seeing models priced to "$49.50" and "$58.00". Automatically Appended Next Post: Tyranids metal box US$33.00 = Biovore
Tyranids metal blister US$16.50 = Broodlord
Tyranids plastic box US$44.50 = Ravenors/Warrior packaged together
Tyranids plastic box US$29.00 = Gargoyles
Tyranids plastic box US$49.50 = Trygon
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
We all know the £27 box is the new nid battle force that comes with 60 models
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
If GW can get Land Raider / Valkyrie money for the brand-new plastic Trygon, why wouldn't they price it as such? Or is the notion that they're going pull a Valk, and bump the $49.50 announce price to $58 when the actually start taking orders? 
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
I think you guys need to realize that at least 4 of the new boxes are new species. the $50 one is the larger than carnifex beastie.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
You are assuming GW releases everything thats new with the codex. IG still don't have Psyker Battle Squad, Penal Legions, some of our tanks and artillery. You can't count on everything that is new to be released with the book.
JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW can get Land Raider / Valkyrie money for the brand-new plastic Trygon, why wouldn't they price it as such?
Or is the notion that they're going pull a Valk, and bump the $49.50 announce price to $58 when the actually start taking orders?
John... I said specifically why I believe they'd price it less than a Valkyrie:
aka_mythos wrote:Believe it or not GW is becoming aware of price sensitivity. They'll never admit it, but its the main reason we're seeing models priced to "$49.50" and "$58.00".
Given the fact that it is similar in size to a Carnifex without much discernable difference they probably don't feel they could get away with it. The fact that they can charge $120 for the Forgeworld one shows they could get away with almost any price. That price is for a slightly different market. GW sells to a different demographic than Forgeworld, and must price accordingly.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
And I said why they'll bump it up.
The reason it's $58 is because they don't want to charge $60+.
17102
Post by: Grimpost
Someone posted about hoping the French drop an early list. I couldn't find to quote.
But they bring up a great point. Those accidental releases get EVERYONE talking about there product not just people in the rumors forum. I was hearing about it from folks who don't look for 40K online. It is a great way to get covert feedback and gauge what units are going to be hot off the shelves.
Though the guy in charge of information management in GW is supposed to be a monster with anyone who leaks info. To the point of people getting fired.*
*Only heard this.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
I'm going to have to completely agree with with Grimpost.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
aka_mythos wrote:You are assuming GW releases everything thats new with the codex. IG still don't have Psyker Battle Squad, Penal Legions, some of our tanks and artillery. You can't count on everything that is new to be released with the book.
But if IG got everything in their Codex, it would be called 'Imperial Guard 40,000 & Enemies'. When you're a horde then you take numerous amounts of pretty much all models and each swarm is different, so you have to realize will be nothing new to the Tyranid Codex that won't have a model, or GW risks a massive problem amongst 'Nid players.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Tim the Biovore wrote:But if IG got everything in their Codex, it would be called 'Imperial Guard 40,000 & Enemies'.
Sounds good to me! 
At last it'd be different from the current Spaz Marinz & Friends.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
Do I dare e-mail GW with this proposal? Nah.
17102
Post by: Grimpost
So the rumor goes 3pt Gaunts with WoN right?
Lets just say they make gaunt squads 30 troops for the sake of a round number. Give them two 1pt upgrades a piece.
180 gaunts for 900pts
That's cool to think of, but I would kill myself if I played someone who was fielding that just based on time it would take to set up. I don't play Ork hordes for the same reason. Takes to damn long.
---side note---
My friend wants to fight two squads of WoN gaunts with Ragnar to see how many he can kill before he gets taken down eventually. He ads # of attacks equal to how many troops he killed last turn. Just keep feeding him gaunts to see how high of a "Combo" he can build up.
lol good times.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Why put 2 upgrades on them when you could just put 1? I'd imagine those 900 points would be better spent on 225 Gaunts with guns than 180 Gaunts with guns and...something else. Then again, if they keep brood sizes the same, 192 will be the most you can take. Boo. :(
17102
Post by: Grimpost
I was just using 30 as a nice round number. And 6 troops is maxed out.
Also the two 1pt upgrades what just to show that you can invest in them and still get a ton of units for a relatively little amount.
More to the point I don't want to play someone that is pulling out over 180 models.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
gorgon wrote:I agree with Shep. I doubt they price a Trygon at $50 when they could easily get $60, and given the price of the existing FW model (which people are obviously willing to pay). It'd be great for customers if true, but it'd be some bad pricing work on the part of GW's marketers.
Stop complaining about a price being low. If its the Trygon, YAY, its cheap. If its not the Trygon then you guys aren't getting a Trygon because its not on the release schedule. I don't see how its bad pricing, it would be GW pricing it comparably to a similar product because they are selling to a different demographic than FW is. Who knows, maybe if GW keep reading this thread they'll bump up the price.
19377
Post by: Grundz
Grimpost wrote:
That's cool to think of, but I would kill myself if I played someone who was fielding that just based on time it would take to set up. I don't play Ork hordes for the same reason. Takes to damn long.
I don't know about you man, but I usually just move my front line of gaunts and then pull from the back line to "fill in" with minimal reorganizing since I remove from the back for casualities, all the other units stay still, basically simulating the gaunts moving up 2-3 rows (6") without moving all 100 models.
17102
Post by: Grimpost
I always get the one guy who moves ALL of his models individually.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Grundz wrote:Grimpost wrote:
That's cool to think of, but I would kill myself if I played someone who was fielding that just based on time it would take to set up. I don't play Ork hordes for the same reason. Takes to damn long.
I don't know about you man, but I usually just move my front line of gaunts and then pull from the back line to "fill in" with minimal reorganizing since I remove from the back for casualities, all the other units stay still, basically simulating the gaunts moving up 2-3 rows (6") without moving all 100 models.
I do that, too, but I think it's only fair to ask your opponent for permission beforehand. I doubt you'll get much resistance, but courtesy counts. Moving models individually doesn't only suck for the person who has to watch it happen, believe me.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
Grimpost wrote:So the rumor goes 3pt Gaunts with WoN right?
Lets just say they make gaunt squads 30 troops for the sake of a round number. Give them two 1pt upgrades a piece.
180 gaunts for 900pts
That's cool to think of, but I would kill myself if I played someone who was fielding that just based on time it would take to set up. I don't play Ork hordes for the same reason. Takes to damn long.
---side note---
My friend wants to fight two squads of WoN gaunts with Ragnar to see how many he can kill before he gets taken down eventually. He ads # of attacks equal to how many troops he killed last turn. Just keep feeding him gaunts to see how high of a "Combo" he can build up.
lol good times.
thats not how that works. it like this: say i kill 5 people with my 5 attacks (unlikely i know) i then charge a squad of ten ork boys and get 10 attacks i kill them all on my own and charge another boyz squad of 10 and have 15 attacks if i kill them all and then charge another ork boyz sqaud of 10 i'll still only have 15 attacks since it say "from the previous assualt phase." so your friend (if he's playing in accordence to all the 40k rules)no matter how hard he tries will never get the "omg i now have 650 attacks because ive killed 645 of your + my 5 base attacks!" Automatically Appended Next Post: also they wouldn't sell it more than $50 because the know forgeworld stuff is so much better than theirs (not due to a fault in the designer though) so anything more than 50% of the price wouldn't sell. (if the trygon is the $50 box then that would be 40% of the forgeworld price. see i'm right just like i was a page or so ago so stop making remarks on the pricing of thing gw knows what they're doing)
20107
Post by: Kwosge
You all know LoTR makes movement trays that fit 40k models right? If you cut them in half length wise movement goes very fast. Also, hormagaunts don't fall over any more.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
twistinthunder wrote:Grimpost wrote:My friend wants to fight two squads of WoN gaunts with Ragnar to see how many he can kill before he gets taken down eventually. He ads # of attacks equal to how many troops he killed last turn.
thats not how that works.
i'll still only have 15 attacks since it say "from the previous assualt phase." so your friend (if he's playing in accordence to all the 40k rules)no matter how hard he tries will never get the "omg i now have 650 attacks because ive killed 645 of your + my 5 base attacks!"
Um, isn't that what he said?
"Adds attacks equal to how many troops killed last turn"
NOT
"Adds attacks equal to how many troops killed since the start of the game"
20684
Post by: Brother_Captain
I am so pumped to see bugs showing up everywhere.
10505
Post by: Mellon
Kwosge wrote:You all know LoTR makes movement trays that fit 40k models right? If you cut them in half length wise movement goes very fast. Also, hormagaunts don't fall over any more.
And well built movement trays can really help to keep your models in that perfect 2" distanced hexagonal grid that minimizes damage from flamers and blasts.
399
Post by: AoD
Mellon wrote:And well built movement trays can really help to keep your models in that perfect 2" distanced hexagonal grid that minimizes damage from flamers and blasts.
uggghhhhhh
10505
Post by: Mellon
AoD wrote:Mellon wrote:And well built movement trays can really help to keep your models in that perfect 2" distanced hexagonal grid that minimizes damage from flamers and blasts.
uggghhhhhh
Sorry, I really should have put a smiley or another marking of sarcasm somehwere in that post. I never learn that tones of voice and overly innocent looks doesn't carry well in text.
7413
Post by: Squig_herder
Mellon wrote:And well built movement trays can really help to keep your models in that perfect 2" distanced hexagonal grid that minimizes damage from flamers and blasts.
I just bought some LotR movement trays for my gaunts, and they work really well, as moving units is x10 faster and coz I nolonger pile everything base to base, I have more hungry nids getting into battle, I recommend them for hordes. Im looking at buying more for my eldar and orks
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
Yeah, even though War of the Ring is over-rated, the movement trays are awesome.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
JohnHwangDD wrote:twistinthunder wrote:Grimpost wrote:My friend wants to fight two squads of WoN gaunts with Ragnar to see how many he can kill before he gets taken down eventually. He ads # of attacks equal to how many troops he killed last turn.
thats not how that works.
i'll still only have 15 attacks since it say "from the previous assualt phase." so your friend (if he's playing in accordence to all the 40k rules)no matter how hard he tries will never get the "omg i now have 650 attacks because ive killed 645 of your + my 5 base attacks!"
Um, isn't that what he said?
"Adds attacks equal to how many troops killed last turn"
NOT
"Adds attacks equal to how many troops killed since the start of the game"
he said combo and i went "NO YOUR NOT PLAYING THE GAME!!!!!!OMGWTFBBQ!!"
sorry
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Squig_herder wrote:Mellon wrote:And well built movement trays can really help to keep your models in that perfect 2" distanced hexagonal grid that minimizes damage from flamers and blasts.
I just bought some LotR movement trays for my gaunts, and they work really well, as moving units is x10 faster and coz I nolonger pile everything base to base, I have more hungry nids getting into battle, I recommend them for hordes. Im looking at buying more for my eldar and orks
Would you be so kind to take some pics? I'm curious to see how they look like.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
Ya a movement tray of like 30 would be very nice. you hear that GW!
10193
Post by: Crazy_Carnifex
Makeing inset movement trays:
Step 1: Cut out a piec of Fiberboard to the size you need and mark the location of your bases on the board.
Step 2: Take a suitably sized Forstner Drill bit and put it in the drill press. Clamp your movement tray to the table. Set the drill press to the correct depth (try to find Fiberboard thick enough to set the bases into), and drill out the holes.
Step3: Bevel the movement trays edges and decorate to taste.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
That is the guy with some iniative way. We want the buy it coz it's there way.
17543
Post by: acreedon
Can we get a summary of what is fact. i stopped following this since page 28. and i feel like im missing a lot of info. lol
7625
Post by: Alex Kolodotschko
There was a post a little while back about a company that made skirmishing horde movement trays.
I cant remember their name but I do know that they do a nifty line in space corridors and etc etc 
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253418.page#923578
10505
Post by: Mellon
Ahahahaha, I hate you Alex. I had managed to forget...
19806
Post by: mockingbirduk
twistinthunder wrote:Grimpost wrote:My friend wants to fight two squads of WoN gaunts with Ragnar to see how many he can kill before he gets taken down eventually. He ads # of attacks equal to how many troops he killed last turn.
thats not how that works.
i'll still only have 15 attacks since it say "from the previous assualt phase." so your friend (if he's playing in accordence to all the 40k rules)no matter how hard he tries will never get the "omg i now have 650 attacks because ive killed 645 of your + my 5 base attacks!"
Round1: 5 attacks, kill 5
Round2: 10 attacks, kill 8
Round3: 13 attacks, kill 10
Round4: 15 attacks, kill 12
Round5: 17 attacks, kill 15 etc etc etc.
So it CAN combo-up over a very long period, assuming each round you kill more than you did the previous round. I guess it's capped at the maximum number you can get in his killzone.
It could also go
Round6: 20 attacks, kill 2 (bad dice!)
Round7: 7 attacks...
M.
17102
Post by: Grimpost
Thanks Mock that's what I was driving at.
It's just something we thought would be funny to see. Like clowns bursting into flames or rational thought at Dakka.
1099
Post by: Railguns
There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
mockingbirduk wrote:So it CAN combo-up over a very long period, assuming each round you kill more than you did the previous round.
It could also go
Round6: 20 attacks, kill 2 (bad dice!)
Round7: 7 attacks...
C-c-c-c-combo breaker!!!
827
Post by: Cruentus
Railguns wrote:There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions.
Sigged!
19806
Post by: mockingbirduk
Railguns wrote:There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions.
How dare you! My mother is a saint, and I didn't come here to be persecuted by racists!
[/sarcasm]
Seriously though, Dakka's been a delightful refreshing breeze to me after the sites where everyone is SO SERIOUS about the fact that their chosen army is OBVIOUSLY THE BEST but is also MASSIVELY NERFED by every rules change, FAQ and sculpt. At least here if you want super serious you can just head to YMDC.
Back on-topic though... Any guesses as to how the rules will be changed to make dakkafex less attractive?
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
Dakkafex doesn't need to be nerfed. Everything else just needs to be made better...and by better I mean usefull.
1099
Post by: Railguns
It doesn't need to be nerfed, but it's going to be anyway because GW is going to "listen to it's customers" by listening to imperial players complain about one of the few models thats still a threat to them and nerf it to appease them.
19806
Post by: mockingbirduk
Railguns wrote:It doesn't need to be nerfed, but it's going to be anyway because GW is going to "listen to it's customers" by listening to imperial players complain about one of the few models thats still a threat to them and nerf it to appease them.
THIS ^^
And also, because everyone who doesn't magnetise already made three and will need to buy new fexes.
4720
Post by: The Phazer
I came up with an idea for 40k movement trays for skirmishers in this thread at Warseer - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181496&page=3
Never went anywhere I'm afraid though.
Phazer
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Very interesting, these could be very usefull for huge swarms.
10193
Post by: Crazy_Carnifex
mockingbirduk wrote:Railguns wrote:It doesn't need to be nerfed, but it's going to be anyway because GW is going to "listen to it's customers" by listening to imperial players complain about one of the few models thats still a threat to them and nerf it to appease them.
THIS ^^
And also, because everyone who doesn't magnetise already made three and will need to buy new fexes.
Or if their like me, just snap all the limbs off and replace them.
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
Or stick it is some simple green for about 3 weeks
19806
Post by: mockingbirduk
wyomingfox wrote:Or stick it is some simple green for about 3 weeks
On the other hand, it IS a good excuse to buy, model and paint more awesome carnifexes... Hmmm...
744
Post by: Anarchyman99
If it used a magnet and not a screw it's a winner as you can just pop off the killed mini's or add to mobing up or rezed necrons
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I still cannot believe they are coming out with another metal boxed set. If it's a new sculpt, I'll cry. Why? Why EVER use metal when multi-part plastics look better and are better to assemble??!
10326
Post by: ungulateman
Because metal is cheaper in the short run and easier to make.
Oh, and they can charge more. Well, sometimes... **coughGreatswordscough**
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
So we're three months out from the new codex. Why haven't we starting seeing the de rigueur rumors of game-breaking rules changes like, say, T8 6W fexes with Breath of the Hive that uses the Apoc template and kills any infantry model under the template on a 2+ regardless of toughness?
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
Actually, that's pretty much what the stat list that got leaked was. Brimstone from Warseer doesn't think those rumors hold water, and that's not particularly surprising. I'm not sure why he's the authority on this matter, but I guess I'll roll with it.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
Brimstone and Harry from Warseer are normally about 95% spot on with their rumblings. If either of those two imply or hint at something it's taken seriously over there. Of course with GW's newer (and IMO for the better) tightening of their leaks even Brim and Harry don't have much to say but as they reveal more I'll for sure keep dakkadakka updated.
I take rumors with a grain of salt but if it comes from either of those two I'll actually plan purchases based on what they say with confidence that I won't have made a mistake.
181
Post by: gorgon
The usual suspects don't have much to say about Tyranids. At this point I feel like we know as much or more about Beasts of Chaos.
Note to GW: This isn't really building anticipation among us customers. Now, if you were teasing us with even a couple pics or snippets of info, you'd probably see people getting excited and staying excited right through to release.
1099
Post by: Railguns
Or at least some silhouettes of models that you haven't released yet, like they did for the new Warrior kit way, way back before the 3rd edition dex came out and they ran teasers in Black Gobbo magazine.
10505
Post by: Mellon
Fateweaver wrote:
(snipped some important stuff)
... Of course with GW's newer (and IMO for the better) tightening of their leaks...
(snipped some relevant stuff)
A minor thing really, but I think it is counter productive of GW to stop their leaks. By more public beta testing of their products they could spare themselves a lot of humiliation from stupidly worded rules, imbalances and outright faults in their rulesystem. I think publishing official beta rules could lessen anticipation for the final printed product, but some controlled "leaks" followed by reading of chosen internet forums could provide massive playtesting and theorycrafting from some of the finest wargaming minds, while at the same time increasing speculation and discussion around the product.
1099
Post by: Railguns
GW basically ignores those very people, Mellon. They've come out and said that they do not consider tournament players to be important.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
"A fringe group that we do not cater to" was the way they put it...
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
they dont consider tourny players as 'a fringe group' though other wise they wouldn't have named people in their doubles tourny articles.
1099
Post by: Railguns
They have literally come out and said that. I don't remember the exact source, but I'm sure HBMC does.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Even when GW had external playtesters they didnt *listen* to them.. The mentally they have is astonishing for a game company yet its been that way since the dawn of time
The whole "do not cater to tournament players" is pure garbage because its an INSULT to the casual players
"Oh sorry casual players.. we know you spend the most money on our products but we're NOT going to proof read NOR give you consistent rules because we dont want to give the impression we are throwing tournament players a bone.. SEE YA"
20609
Post by: Tyranid Horde
There is a Nid codex definatly coming at the start of the year.
9964
Post by: Broken Loose
Tyranid Horde wrote:There is a Nid codex definatly coming at the start of the year.
While we're at it, the sky is definitely blue and there is definitely an abundance of water in the ocean.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
Sky is not always blue. Today the sky above me is a codex gray color.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
@ fateweaver
lols the sky above me was enchanted blue highlighted with ice blue with freehand clouds whoever painted was a damn good painter!
8815
Post by: Archonate
twistinthunder wrote:they dont consider tourny players as 'a fringe group' though other wise they wouldn't have named people in their doubles tourny articles.
Oddly, there seems to be a difference between "Tournament Players" and players who participate in tournaments...
15829
Post by: Redemption
Some new info from Warseer about the 'nids:
- Alessio Cavatore has 'acknowledged' the plastic Trygon.
- Apperantly all 6 models are new models, not redoes of existing kits.
Edit: ah, they meant no redone plastics. Which means the warrior and gaunt sets are staying are they are. But some metals are still up for plastification, such as the speculated gargoyles and raveners.
17269
Post by: 64mas
I'm gonna call bs on that one. No way GW can actually add options. I thought all they did was take away options, invalidate armies, and stuff like that.
Then again, it would let them sell more models, and add to the giant money pool.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
Redemption wrote:Some new info from Warseer about the 'nids:
- Alessio Cavatore has 'acknowledged' the plastic Trygon.
- Apperantly all 6 models are new models, not redoes of existing kits.
Edit: ah, they meant no redone plastics. Which means the warrior and gaunt sets are staying are they are. But some metals are still up for plastification, such as the speculated gargoyles and raveners.
not necessarily they could be the same frames in seperate boxes for all we know.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
6!!!?!?!??! I thought it was 4, not that I'm complaining but a little doubtful. Still i'd like to be proven wrong.
9964
Post by: Broken Loose
In other news, http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1020009&rootCatGameStyle=
Gaunts have been pulled from the website, and this single action (which is more of a lack of an action, honestly) has given us more news than the entirety of Gamesday Italy, which people wasted hundreds of dollars to attend.
Now, it's pretty much confirmed Gaunts and Hormagaunts will be split and reboxed.
19891
Post by: FoolWhip
Wow, I'd have to agree to that. I just double checked myself.
Death Leapers, The Red Terror, and Old One Eye are all available. Gaunts and Hormagaunts are not.
Fun times await. 
17155
Post by: bhsman
Very good catch on the gaunts, but...
Broken Loose wrote:...this single action (which is more of a lack of an action, honestly) has given us more news than the entirety of Gamesday Italy, which people wasted hundreds of dollars to attend.
If you went to goddamn Gamesday only for rumours and not for, say, gaming, you deserve to think your money was wasted.
1099
Post by: Railguns
You don't go so much FOR the rumours, but you probably expect a bit of information considering you're going to such an expensive and supposedly extravagant event.
17155
Post by: bhsman
True, but to call it a waste is an overstatement.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
FlammingGaunt wrote:6!!!?!?!??! I thought it was 4, not that I'm complaining but a little doubtful. Still i'd like to be proven wrong.
4 new species (supposedly)
6 new boxes (so those 4 new species probably and like the hive tyrant and something else, hopefully raveners or some decent looking gargoyles).
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Redemption wrote:Some new info from Warseer about the 'nids:
- Alessio Cavatore has 'acknowledged' the plastic Trygon.
- Apperantly all 6 models are new models, not redoes of existing kits.
Edit: ah, they meant no redone plastics. Which means the warrior and gaunt sets are staying are they are. But some metals are still up for plastification, such as the speculated gargoyles and raveners.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this isn't the edition of the Warrior. Oh well...
Here's hoping for plastic Gargoyles.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
That means Gaunts and Raveners being redone. Like I said before, the raveners have gone from GW Online in Oz.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Gaunts?
No, they're plastic. No redone plastics they just said.
So redone metals, which gives us the options of:
Raveners (3 version in 3 Editions)
Gargoyles (2 Versions in 4 Editions)
Lictors (4 versions in 4 Editions)
Biovores (4 versions in 4 Editions)
Zoanthropes (4 versions in 4 Editions)
Tyrant Guard (3 versions in 3 editions)
Hive Tyrant (4 versions in 4 Editions)
My money's on the Gargoyles and Raveners. No to the rest.
9892
Post by: Flashman
Think new plastic Gargoyles are a given and evidence points to a Gaunt box split.
My worry is that if they continue the excellent scuplting standards of new plastics, some of the core Tyranid range is going to look badly outdated, especially the static Gaunts.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
@H.B.M.C. I was only following the people saying the Gaunt box was being split.
1099
Post by: Railguns
I almost want the gaunts to be resculpted actually. Take the same general details but scale them down to a proper size and make them look sharper around the edges. The new Skaven stuff is fantastic, so I'm sure they could get it right without making the gaunts bigger than Space Marines.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Apart from the fiddly feet that break on hormas the gaunt sprues dont lack dinamic and I would much live with them for several more years.
11837
Post by: jgemrich
I concur.... there is nothing inherently wrong w/ Gaunts sprues. To redo them you'd also may need to redo their special weapons sprue. I'd much rather see other stuff go plastic long before Gaunts are given a face lift. The Guants can hold up for a number of years longer IMO.
I'd be happy to see
Gargoyles, Ravenors in plastic. I'd also like the Tyrant in plastic but I think that is wishful thinking.
19398
Post by: Tim the Biovore
Well, at least give them bio-morphs that can be glued on without taking ages. And this may just be me, but my Hormies keep falling foward in that hilarious comedy style.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Railguns wrote:I almost want the gaunts to be resculpted actually.
I think the first priority would be to ensure that their heads are one piece. My God... two-piece heads. What were they thinking!!!!!!!!!!! I have two unopened boxes of Gaunts still waiting to be built and I've avoided them simply because of two-piece heads.
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
H.B.M.C. wrote:Railguns wrote:I almost want the gaunts to be resculpted actually.
I think the first priority would be to ensure that their heads are one piece. My God... two-piece heads. What were they thinking!!!!!!!!!!! I have two unopened boxes of Gaunts still waiting to be built and I've avoided them simply because of two-piece heads.
There, there, H'. It only takes a bit of glue.
5873
Post by: kirsanth
Tim the Biovore wrote:Well, at least give them bio-morphs that can be glued on without taking ages. And this may just be me, but my Hormies keep falling foward in that hilarious comedy style.
I glue coins on their bases.
Which is funny, because they really need that extra bit of change added to their cost. 
I like the current Tyrant. The only thing plastic would help is wings.
Gargoyles and Raveners in plastic would make it worth filling out a few broods though, even if they are not fielded.
/shrug
1099
Post by: Railguns
I hate the two piece heads. Sometimes they just never, ever line up. If you cut a bit too deep cleaning the flash off of the back of their head parts, then they definitely will never line up because one side might be rounded and the other will be flat.
6051
Post by: avantgarde
Pss...
Glue it together then clean it.
10273
Post by: Chapterhouse
LOL, yep... Automatically Appended Next Post: Tim the Biovore wrote:Well, at least give them bio-morphs that can be glued on without taking ages. And this may just be me, but my Hormies keep falling foward in that hilarious comedy style.
I buy 1 Inch steel washers at Lowes, I think they are 5$ for 50 in a box. They are the perfect size to fit on the bottom and they fit flush, the extra 1/16th of an inch height is no big deal.
Just superglue them before you prime the models.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Pennies... they're 500 for $5 almost anywhere. If you have the money I might even recommend the deluxe edition nickel... only $.05 a piece... that like 100 for $5 and fits pretty well. :p
21225
Post by: markthemekboy
I have heard that legion of the dammed is comming out in januaryand nids are comming out in febuary
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
I don't like using washers on the slotta bases. I found these tungsten disks for relatively cheap. 3 or 4 per hormie and no more falling over.
17155
Post by: bhsman
aka_mythos wrote:Pennies... they're 500 for $5 almost anywhere. If you have the money I might even recommend the deluxe edition nickel... only $.05 a piece... that like 100 for $5 and fits pretty well. :p
Nice. Buckshot works as well as long as we'll discussing weighting your bases.
171
Post by: Lorek
I use birdshot on most of my bases that won't fit a nickel, and it's terrific.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
markthemekboy wrote:I have heard that legion of the dammed is comming out in januaryand nids are comming out in febuary
gw has confirmed that both will be coming in january. please read the thread.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
Arschbombe wrote:I don't like using washers on the slotta bases. I found these tungsten disks for relatively cheap. 3 or 4 per hormie and no more falling over.
Nice. How many do you guess per bag? If they are that dense and heavy I don't imagine a 1oz bag contains a lot of them or am I way off?
171
Post by: Lorek
And please use capital letters where appropriate. It's not difficult.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
Fateweaver wrote:Nice. How many do you guess per bag? If they are that dense and heavy I don't imagine a 1oz bag contains a lot of them or am I way off?
Probably a hundred of them in each bag and I got 4 bags for about that price (can't remember if it was that exact site or not). Besides my hormies I've also used them to stabilize metal marines like Dante, vanguard vets and the jump pack chaplain model. I've also used them to balance Zoanthropes by putting 8 to 10 on top of the base and another 8 to 10 on the bottom of the base and then liberally covering them with green stuff. I've still got plenty left over. They only real downside is that they aren't sold in uniform sizes. Each bag has an assortment of different sizes. I've been using the thicker ones, about 1/16".
15829
Post by: Redemption
First new creature, thanks to Lorizael from 40konline:  I guess this is the new big psyker that was rumoured about.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
ooooooh. very malanthorpy.
21036
Post by: Darth_Squirrel
I like...
Although it reminds me of something I saw in a video from Japan
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
The FW model is a lot nicer. This has really wierd proportions. It reminds me of an asterisk. *
20124
Post by: Neith
I prefer the FW model, but I'd have to see more images first to make a real decision. This is of course assuming it IS a Malanthrope.
15829
Post by: Redemption
JohnHwangDD wrote:The FW model is a lot nicer. This has really wierd proportions. It reminds me of an asterisk. *
That's assuming it's supposed to be a Malanthrope, I'm thinking it's something new. Though I agree that it's a little out of proportion, but perhaps it's just a bad photograph.
4736
Post by: airmang
looks like a conversion to me.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
I suppose it could be yet another resculpt of the Zoanthrope, but what are the tentacles for? Lash whips? It doesn't look like a close combat species.
5344
Post by: Shep
Yeah, the white on white is kinda messing with my eyes.
Is that two pairs of lash whips as its weapon symbiotes?
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
It looks like it's got feeder tendrils, two claw arms (but not rending claws or scything talons) and then two tentacles.
I don't think it's a conversion. The lower body looks substantively different than the Zoanthrope. I think it's one of the new species.
15829
Post by: Redemption
I also fear it's going to be a horribly top-heavy metal model. At least I can't really see them doing a model like that in plastic.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
As top-heavy as it must be, if it's not plastic, it's pure fail on the tabletop.
9891
Post by: RUNE
Zoidberg meets a Tyrant? The most horrible model in the army!
10273
Post by: Chapterhouse
Not so much close combaty goodness... Im not liking it so much, I think the FW Malanthrope looks like a New York Floating Parade Baloon so the resemblance isnt good IMHO.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
If it's like the current Zoanthropes it'll be ok once you weight the base.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
NEW BUGS!
I dont care if he looks like... mehhhhhhh. I just want the stats the fluff and my GS... I feel the smell of chitin in the horizon and its going to be goooood
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
Speaking from the last codex, if GW won't make good rules to go with the models, then IMO they shouldn't bother with the models.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
wyomingfox wrote:if GW didn't make good rules to go with the models, then IMO they shouldn't have bothered with the models.
There. Fixed that for ya. It's all done. What remains is the big reveal to see what they did.
17050
Post by: MilkmanAl
For what it's worth, Brimstone doesn't think this thingy is a Malanthrope. Somehow, that makes me even more excited. I like that model a lot even though I can see it falling over constantly and being prone to breaking.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
I don't know why peeps are so hell bent on that being a Malanthrope.
GW did say 4 "new species" not seen in codeciies before. Why can't it mean just that? 4 "NEW" species.
I'm willing to bet money it's not a malanthrope. Just because it resembles one doesn't mean it is. Raveners resemble Warriors from the waist up but they are obviously 2 seperate species of 'Nid.
Geez. Give GW SOME credit in thinking up new ideas. I mean Raveners are new from 3rd edition(?) on, they aren't an original idea dating back to RT.
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
Of course it's not a Malanthorpe, it's on a 40mm base.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
I predicted new never before seen species for nids and got laughed at and told GW are just going to make plastics/metals for FW stuff.
I'm going to enjoy laughing at the ones who told me how wrong I was when January rolls around and they find out how wrong they were.
6051
Post by: avantgarde
Fateweaver wrote:I don't know why peeps are so hell bent on that being a Malanthrope.
GW did say 4 "new species" not seen in codeciies before. Why can't it mean just that? 4 "NEW" species.
I'm willing to bet money it's not a malanthrope. Just because it resembles one doesn't mean it is. Raveners resemble Warriors from the waist up but they are obviously 2 seperate species of 'Nid.
Geez. Give GW SOME credit in thinking up new ideas. I mean Raveners are new from 3rd edition(?) on, they aren't an original idea dating back to RT.
Of the many new units introduced by the new IG codex name all the units that are completely original that are not a vehicle variant or a SC. After that do the same with SM.
20124
Post by: Neith
Fateweaver wrote:I don't know why peeps are so hell bent on that being a Malanthrope.
GW did say 4 "new species" not seen in codeciies before. Why can't it mean just that? 4 "NEW" species.
I'm willing to bet money it's not a malanthrope. Just because it resembles one doesn't mean it is. Raveners resemble Warriors from the waist up but they are obviously 2 seperate species of 'Nid.
Geez. Give GW SOME credit in thinking up new ideas. I mean Raveners are new from 3rd edition(?) on, they aren't an original idea dating back to RT.
That new model has feeder tendrils, a serpentine body, and what looks like a rounded part near its shoulder joints. Those are all traits of the Malanthrope (the rounded part being the sac that stores its victims). The only thing that makes me think it isn't a Malanthrope is the base size. Unless Malanthropes got scaled down significantly, it isn't one. Maybe a sub-species of it?
12821
Post by: RustyKnight
After the mystery box, is it really that surprising that people doubt GW releasing NEW NEVER BEFORE SEEN items that noone HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT?
21450
Post by: Stealershock
Go rumors of a plastic trygon usable in 40k!!!
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
From The Dude on Warseer:
Allessio has supposedly let slip the following titbits:
"I cannot speak about the Trygon, but a hypothetical model would have the same detail and more versatility than the Skaven doombell"
"I would expect something similar to a Tyranid basilisk, a new species with a brand new metal model is likely"
"If people want a new Hive Tyrant model will have to buy the Forgeworld one"
"The new book will let players field even more Carnifexes than before"
Here, in Italian:
http://www.forumgwtilea.it/forum/ind...pic=95497&st=0
From another ninja, there are two new plastic sets listed: Raveners, full plastic set, 35 euros, and Gargoyles, 22.75 euros.
Hormagaunts and Termagants will be sold separately, both boxes 19.50 euro. The current Gaunt-box is still listed, price unchanged.
There are also two new names:
Toxatroph, in a Blister, 17.50 Euro
Pyrovore, Metal Box set, 26 Euro.
Also, besides the already available Tyrant Guard there is also a blister named Schwarmwache in German, which translates to Hive Guard, Blister, 17.50.
The New Battleforce has its price raised by 5 Euro, which is the same as the new Imperial Guard Battleforce.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
He also added:
The Dude wrote:I suspect our new creature to be either the Toxatroph, or the Hive Guard
If there is some sort of Malanthrope like HQ choice that guy would make for a lighter Tyrant Guard equivalent for it.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
The Dude wrote: Allessio has supposedly let slip the following titbits:
"I cannot speak about the Trygon, but a hypothetical model would have the same detail and more versatility than the Skaven doombell"
Heh, Alessio's funny.
Still, Nids are getting a nice, big new model.
5344
Post by: Shep
Here are all known product codes, costs, and 'confirmed' models.
99120106016 plastic box $44.50 - trygon (I expect that price will do a last minute pop up to $58 just like the valkyrie did)
99120106017 plastic box $100.00 - battle force
99120106018 plastic box $29.00 - raveners
99120106019 plastic box $22.00 - gargoyles
99120106020 plastic box $22.00 - 1/2 gaunts
99120106021 plastic box $22.00 - 1/2 gaunts
99060106061 metal blister $20.00 - toxathrope
99060106062 metal blister $20.00 - hive guard
99110106063 metal box $33.00 - pyrovore
99110106064 metal blister $16.50 - ???
Just missing one model name for the new release. My guess is that the 16.50 blister is just a blister pack with 6 spore mines in it. That's what they go for online. The 4 new species are accounted for, and the three new plastic kits are confirmed. If we can get a semi-confirm on this cheap little blister, then we can start planning our purchases.
And before you start speculating on what it is. keep in mind that there isn't a single metal model in the tyranid range that falls below the $20.00 price point. It is NOT a new broodlord, zoanthrope or biovore.
1099
Post by: Railguns
That thing looks like armored spaghetti.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
Maybe it's the fabled flying spaghetti monster.
2661
Post by: Tacobake
Pyrovore? Sounds like Privateer Press.
Honestly, nids are always great for 40k especially with Space Hulk out if they are doing Blood Angels soon too. A new Heavy sounds great, and the old-new book could use a quick edit, although it was a great book anyway. Carnis in Fast or Troop? Probably Fast.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
Haha, "NEW" species. Pyrovore and Toxanthrope. I DARE someone to show me where those even exist in fluff, ever. I'll even let you go back to RT days.
I love being right. Now I know how Gwar feels over in the YMDC forum.
Ah crap, I'm gonna get banned now as I'm siding with Gwar. gak.
1099
Post by: Railguns
Well, if anyone in the bassackwards techno-regressive universe of 40k would get entirely new units, it would be the Tyranids.(or Tau, but they aren't relevant to the conversation).
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
They're listed next to the LR Punisher and LR Executioner, along with the Psyker Battle Squad, and every other unit Robin Crudace pulled out of his ass.
1099
Post by: Railguns
The executioner actually WAS a forgeworld model for a while, so Cruddance didn't make that one up. He just lifted it from forgeworld.
19431
Post by: HolyCause
Any word on what might be in the Battleforce box?
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
Who cares who's ass a unit was pulled out of. A new species is a new species and we have proof of 2 of the 4 and I was shot down when I predicted units never before even spoken of.
11766
Post by: Grunt_For_Christ
Shep wrote:Here are all known product codes, costs, and 'confirmed' models.
99120106016 plastic box $44.50 - trygon (I expect that price will do a last minute pop up to $58 just like the valkyrie did)
99120106017 plastic box $100.00 - battle force
99120106018 plastic box $29.00 - raveners
99120106019 plastic box $22.00 - gargoyles
99120106020 plastic box $22.00 - 1/2 gaunts
99120106021 plastic box $22.00 - 1/2 gaunts
99060106061 metal blister $20.00 - toxathrope
99060106062 metal blister $20.00 - hive guard
99110106063 metal box $33.00 - pyrovore
99110106064 metal blister $16.50 - ???
Just missing one model name for the new release. My guess is that the 16.50 blister is just a blister pack with 6 spore mines in it. That's what they go for online. The 4 new species are accounted for, and the three new plastic kits are confirmed. If we can get a semi-confirm on this cheap little blister, then we can start planning our purchases.
And before you start speculating on what it is. keep in mind that there isn't a single metal model in the tyranid range that falls below the $20.00 price point. It is NOT a new broodlord, zoanthrope or biovore.
So check me on these few points:
1. Pyrovore: flamer/heavy flamer template ravener-like creature that's an elite or fast attack?
2. Raveners are finally going to be somewhere around 30 pts. for a loaded one instead of 30 pts. base?
3. 8 or 12 gargoyles in the box... What do you think?
4. Possibly termagaunts and hormagaunts get different boxes and only have 8 or 10 each?
5. Toxathrope (please tell me that isn't the actual name): Toxic miasma/bio plasma/new template weapon guy?
6. The new 'Trygon' is basically a bigger ravener that fits into the heavy slot?
I was looking at the tyranid family tree and noticed a few things: There's a spot off of tyranid warriors that says there is 212 variations of them, so I'm guessing that'll be the catch all term for the new specialized guys, right? There's also a 'classified' species that's a parent to the zoanthrope, so that seems to take care of one of the new species. Also there's an 'undefined' species underneath termagaunts... Any idea of what that could be?
504
Post by: kaiservonhugal
Ill take it whatever it is - cant wait to get new bug figs!!!
1099
Post by: Railguns
The creature is called a Toxitrophe, apparently. That means something like "poison-eater" if you take the common inferences from the biologic terminology, like a heterotrophe uses organic carbon sources, and is usually associated with predation.
PS-which sounds silly to me, but your average layman wouldn't have a clue.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
5. Toxathrope (please tell me that isn't the actual name): Toxic miasma/bio plasma/new template weapon guy?
I think that's the thing in the picture and it has poison tentacles that wound anything on a 2+.
1099
Post by: Railguns
It does have a weedy, short little tail. Other than psychic force I can't see any feasible mode of locomotion for this thing unless they expect to tell us that it gets around on that wholly-unsuited-for-mobility-tail.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
So forgive me for jumping in without reading the 37 pages that precede the last 2, but it looks like it is rumored that you will be able to field more carnifexes than ever before? Does that simply mean their cost is dropping, or possibly something along the lines of other codexes where taking a special character gives you the option to convert them to other force organization types?
I love my carnifexes, but having kids and all I don't see how I am going to afford any more.
2661
Post by: Tacobake
I'm pumped! New codices in the new year! Huzzah!
5636
Post by: warpcrafter
RUNE wrote:Zoidberg meets a Tyrant? The most horrible model in the army!
Get your head on straight buddy! Zoidberg can be downright terrifying when riled up, or hungry.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:it is rumored that you will be able to field more carnifexes than ever before?
Does that simply mean their cost is dropping, or possibly something along the lines of other codexes where taking a special character gives you the option to convert them to other force organization types?
I would suspect the latter, tied to something of a cost increase of any shooty options, and a considerable cost increase for Sv2+. The maximum to date is 6 (3 Elite & 3 Heavy). Adding Old One Eye back in as a SC would make a grand total of 7 (1 HQ + the 6 currently available). Technically, that would be "more carnifexes than ever before", Plus, GW can then limit the basic list 3 (Elites, similar to Dreads), so taking the SC as HQ to add 3 Heavy works just like a SM MotF, and that isn't broken.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
I take it the carnifex kits are going to cost just as much as before though, right? I expect I am going to have to break the bank to get more 'fexes (which I absolutely love, due to the imagery of a giant critter smashing aside space marines like ragdolls ).
I also heard something along the lines of genestealers going to elite choices unless you take a broodlord. I don't see that as a problem, but I hope the remove the mandatory retinue on the broodlord. I would rather be able to take 2 maxed out stealer broods than 2 weak ones and a retinue for the broodlord.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
As much as before, if not more. GW prices don't go down.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Hummm, let me crunch some numbers... ( 2 trygons, 3 rav boxes, 3 garg boxes) 263 euros if trygons are 45...starting saving my money 
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
So check me on these few points:
1. Pyrovore: flamer/heavy flamer template ravener-like creature that's an elite or fast attack?
...
3. 8 or 12 gargoyles in the box... What do you think?
...
4. Possibly termagaunts and hormagaunts get different boxes and only have 8 or 10 each?
...
6. The new 'Trygon' is basically a bigger ravener that fits into the heavy slot?
...
1. Pyro-vore... is like a bio-vore... but with fire. Looking at the trends in 40k, its probably a weaker biovore that has an attack that can ignore cover saves, thats my guess.
3. I think its going to be 8, 12 is unlikely because of the space all the wings will take up on the sprue.
4. This does appear to be the case.
6. Yes and then some. It burrows (deep strike) and may allow raveners to pop out of its hole.
539
Post by: cygnnus
Arschbombe wrote:Maybe it's the fabled flying spaghetti monster.
"Fabled"!??!?! All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his noodily goodness!
But the FSM aside, that's a pretty cool looking 'Nid gribbly. Dunno about the thin tail holding him (it?) up, but I actually kind of like the bigger spines.
Vale,
JohnS
20124
Post by: Neith
I'm guessing (now that we have names) that the pictured Nid is a Toxathrope, which further suggests it's related to either the Zoanthrope or Malanthrope (it appears similar to the latter). Hopefully it's a plastic model, because it really looks top-heavy.
Pyrovore doesn't excite me- anything resembling a Biovore does that I've never really liked using them, but who knows, maybe this one will be decent.
Hive Guard? I was thinking 'probably just a translation error of Tyrant Guard', but if this is a new species I'm really interested to see what it's like.
Plastic Trygon would be nice, but hopefully it isn't much smaller than the FW model. Although, with the stats it currently has, it'll probably only fit well in Apoc, unless the stats are nerfed.
Edit: Plastic Raveners? I've wanted that for so long!
7625
Post by: Alex Kolodotschko
Now i'm getting excited!!!
Navarro's 263 euros sounds a little slim!
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
True... well its just a first sketch... I will probably go nuts with some more of the cooler kits... I just hope garg wings are not like the possessed ones butt ugly.
181
Post by: gorgon
JohnHwangDD wrote:FoxPhoenix135 wrote:it is rumored that you will be able to field more carnifexes than ever before?
Does that simply mean their cost is dropping, or possibly something along the lines of other codexes where taking a special character gives you the option to convert them to other force organization types?
I would suspect the latter, tied to something of a cost increase of any shooty options, and a considerable cost increase for Sv2+.
The maximum to date is 6 (3 Elite & 3 Heavy).
Adding Old One Eye back in as a SC would make a grand total of 7 (1 HQ + the 6 currently available).
Technically, that would be "more carnifexes than ever before",
Plus, GW can then limit the basic list 3 (Elites, similar to Dreads), so taking the SC as HQ to add 3 Heavy works just like a SM MotF, and that isn't broken.
Actually, I'd lay money that we're getting units of monstrous creatures (which not coincidentally are mentioned in the IG book by the same author). So figure they become a 1-3 choice in HS, allowing you to field 9 of them. Meanwhile, they move out of Elites to make room for some of the new stuff.
And before anyone freaks about 9 fexes, I'm also betting the other HS choices got a lot more attractive. And I wouldn't be surprised to see some price bumps for Carnifexes, just because.
Edit: Regarding the Toxithrope model, it's not bad. I think I'll reposition the tentacles a bit, cut the vents back a little, and do something about the feeder tendrils. A color scheme other than Leviathan might also make a world of difference.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I doubt carnifexes will end up in squadrons... it worked with Leman Russ' because vehilcles lose surviability when squadroned. MC's would gain survivability in squadrons. Unless there is a nerfing or price hike to counter act that, it would only get more difficult to take out a carnifex. Imperial guard were suffering for improved viability, tyranid are not. If anything I'd say the biggest "problem" is that currently there is too many Nid-zilla armies, and something should be done to improve the diversity of Tyranid armies away from 6 (or more) carnifexes.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
2 tyrants, 9 carnis and 1 trygon, rippers for troops... oh yeahhhhh
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
it would be great if old one eye let you have carnifex for troops wouldnt it?????????
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Well, if Carnifexes become 1-3/pick, then I guess it'll be nice fielding my Wraithlords in Squads when Eldar get redone, simply because I can.
I haven't fielded 6 Wraithlords in regular 40k since the 40k3 Rulebook Iyanden army...
17155
Post by: bhsman
They could always treat Carnifices(?) like they do with Death Cult Assassins or Daemonhosts in the Daemonhunters book: you can purchase up to three for each slot (giving you a potential NINE DCA ) but they each act independently.
In this way, GW can sell more models, the kid in me who watched a lot of Godzilla as a child can justify an army with 11 MCs, and the unfortunate bastard who plays against my list at least can't complain about me using the new Wound Allocation rules.
Because I would. I would do it so hard. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
686
Post by: aka_mythos
If Carnifex do get the 1-3 slot treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if they simply removed them as an Elite choice, make a basic close combat configuration the basic baseline with all the options stacked up. Being able to take 9 is one thing taking 18 is another.
18244
Post by: Omega_Warlord
I bet if you can take carnifexes in 3 member "broods", several things will happen:
1)Venom cannon will no longer just glance, but limit 1 per "brood," or only if you take 3, or some such. Same with Barbed Strangler.
2)Base ~90-100 points. Shooting symbiots very limited and very expensive with no more 2+ save.
3)Can only be done if you take VERY expensive lackluster rules HQ (Old One Eye?)
4) Requires synapse to do anything (kinda like Wraith sight).
5)Everything else will be so much better the lists won't be top tier.
probably some other balance things...
That said, 2 or 3 broods of screamer-killer Carifexes running across the table at a gun line army makes me drool... with little bugs weaving in and out of their legs... so fluffy, so dangerous, so sexy...
1099
Post by: Railguns
I miss the days when seeing one Carnifex across the table from you was terrifying.
18244
Post by: Omega_Warlord
in 500 points, I can field 2 dakkarants and 2 stranglefexes... most people are not happy...
20107
Post by: Kwosge
If the "Hive Guard" isn't a translation error, I'm guessing it will probably be the Tyranid equivalent of shield drones. A unit can can attach it self to another unit and it's soul purpose is to suck up some wounds. This would dramatically increase the survivability of front line units; like Raveners, Warriors, Zoanthropes and Genestealers, without being forced to give them better armor saves to compensate for their high cost.
8272
Post by: FlammingGaunt
2 tyrants, 9 carnis and 1 trygon, rippers for troops... oh yeahhhhh
I'm right with you Fething TMC all the way.
19891
Post by: FoolWhip
Omega_Warlord wrote:in 500 points, I can field 2 dakkarants and 2 stranglefexes... most people are not happy...
How? You can only field as elites in 1500+ games.
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
Dakkarants are hive tyrants not fexes.
123
Post by: Alpharius
40 pages!
Surely this thread will collapse under its own weight soon, right?
Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what GW does to compensate for the 'problems' with the Tyranid list...
I mean, they will, right?
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
CT GAMER wrote:Railguns wrote:
We really don't need a nerf, we need some updating and powering up to keep up with everyone else.
What you "need" and what you will get are usually two very different things as GW has clearly demonstrated in past codex revisions...
GW will axe nidzilla and make gant spam all the rage with 4-5pt. gants, etc.
Apocalypse gives them a nice excuse to do it guilt fee: they will have Jervis in the rag telling all the crying nid players that they can still use all thos big 'nid beasties they spent gobs of cash on in their Apoc games...
See happy ending...
QFT especially the jervis but if this rag is white dwarf magazine, they make loads of mistakes like for instance this months white dwarf (october) in the example space wolves army part of the text reads:
"and a wolf gaurd with mark of the wulfen, giving me a potential 7 thunder hammer attacks!"
when actually mark of the wulfen dont count any sort of power weapon when attacking so that artcile = FAIL.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FoolWhip wrote:Omega_Warlord wrote:in 500 points, I can field 2 dakkarants and 2 stranglefexes... most people are not happy...
How? You can only field as elites in 1500+ games.
you have this wrong you can field as elites if your carnifex cost less than 115pts (if thats the right number) the games points dont make a difference.
also the -rant suffix signifies hive tyrants
the -fex suffix represents carnifexes (or carnifexi w/e)
5873
Post by: kirsanth
Alpharius wrote:Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what GW does to overcompensate for the 'problems' with the Tyranid list...
I mean, they will, right?
Fixed.
15365
Post by: twistinthunder
JohnHwangDD wrote:Well, if Carnifexes become 1-3/pick, then I guess it'll be nice fielding my Wraithlords in Squads when Eldar get redone, simply because I can.
I haven't fielded 6 Wraithlords in regular 40k since the 40k3 Rulebook Iyanden army...
i can see 40k becoming squads, squads!,SQUADS,AND MORE SQUADS!
18909
Post by: Neffertech
twistinthunder wrote:
you have this wrong you can field as elites if your carnifex cost less than 115pts (if thats the right number) the games points dont make a difference.
also the -rant suffix signifies hive tyrants
the -fex suffix represents carnifexes (or carnifexi w/e)
Shock Troops says in games of 1500 points or more you ..... So you can take Fexes as elites in games of 1500 points or more.
|
|
