2am - "I won't download it now, i'll be going to bed soon thanks to this headache."
5:11am - "My headache has subsided and i'm in no mood to sleep, so might as well see how long it takes if i'm going to be up."
5:12am, - "I wanna go to bed... feth."
That blog listed the Vabbi server as a EU homeworld. Since that's the server this guild will be on does that mean US players are going to have some sort of connection disadvanatge or other internet related maladies?
Well, it looks like everyone has gotten their e-mail. I will start downloading after work today and will most likely be done by 12:00am that night (nothing like having 50mb u/15mb d connection). Will be painting my Protectorate of Menoth while this happens. And we are using Skype right? Never used it before but I will also grab that.
I also will not be able to get on until ~5:00pm on Friday (most likely like everyone else, work!) but I assume that is when we will discuss what server we will play on?
Well, it is good that we get to think about this before hand. But, having the issues between what server everyone wants to get on, I think I can help with my chosen server could be any server. I have no qualms, unless I happen to get on one and it totally blows but I have not ever noticed an issue while playing on a foreign server (I know it's higher ping but never a gameplay issue). But I absolutely must pick, but still compromise with the rest of the Dakka Dakka players, I would pick a UK server as per Mel's reasoning. It is closer to the US players while still being close to EU players.
Aye, I must admit it is easier for me to say to try US servers as I have no baggage from GW1. I'd assume folks have connections to there they'd rather not loose.
So yeah my view is, I'll go where ever folks want to go.
Well since it seems most people rather have a UK or US based server (I of course prefer the latter) any chance of changing servers? A German server seems to make little sense at the moment, I think something located on the US east coast would be best. Then again I'm being completely selfish here since I'm from NJ
Got home earlier, and in a rush ran the .exe instead of saving it. Client worked until I realised the .exe wasn't there after i'd closed it, retrieved it using Mel's link, and now it wants to re-install the whole fething thing.
Strange thing is that it installed all the files onto my C: drive once already, taking up the disk space, but they are nowhere to be found. At all.
I understand servers are essential to the WvWvW system, but there's also the guild infidelity system. Perhaps we will be allowed to join and be in guilds that are not necessarily in the same server.
It's especially a curiosity considering ALL your characters must be on the same server and you have to pay gems to swap ALL them over.
Melissia wrote:Search for ArenaNet.log then, and be sure to search your ENTIRE computer including temporary files.
Nothing on that search either.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Googled the issue, apparently there's no cure. I just have to live with several GB of unusable data on my C: drive, clear more space, and re-DL it.
I haven't watched any gameplay footage, and want to go into the game 3 days early still a GW2 virgin.
Purist and all that bs.
Avatar you just can run CCleaner (google it and download it if you don't already have it) and it will basically do it all for you. You can pick and choose what temporary, unneeded files in a lot of areas on your computer you want to delete
I might be wrong but I think all the EU servers are based in Germany and all the US servers are based in the west coast.
That said homeworlds are only really relevant for WvWvW, in team PvP or PvE you can play on any server but for WvWvW you can only play for your homeworld.
You get enough gems for one free homeworld switch in the beta so perhaps we should try one EU server, see how the lag is and if it's really bad we can try a US server?
How we try about Riverside for EU and if that is laggy try Eternal Grove for US?
NCsoft don't have much to do with GW2 thankfully and you can play on any server you (US or EU) like except in WvWvW where you can only play for your home server.
I feel we should at least TRY to play on one server but if the lag is too bad it would make sense to play separately, I'd rather play together though because I love you guys
Corpsesarefun wrote:NCsoft don't have much to do with GW2 thankfully and you can play on any server you (US or EU) like except in WvWvW where you can only play for your home server.
I feel we should at least TRY to play on one server but if the lag is too bad it would make sense to play separately, I'd rather play together though because I love you guys
Well, I am all set up; Tried to log in and it told me "Welcome to the Beta, but there is currently no Beta going on right now", or something to that effect
And I bought a Headset, so unfortunately your all going to have to listen to my gravelly voice.
So is the server transfer via gems only relevant to WvWvW? I'm a little confused, how do you play regular PvE and PvP on multiple servers? Can't you only be in one server at a time? Or can you switch servers at anytime but you use gems to designate a single server as your WvWvW team? And I guess you'd switch to that server whenever doing some WvWvW.
That being said I think I'm sticking with Eternal Grove anyway. I have IRL friends and family who I'll have a hard time convincing to play on a foreign server.
When you say for PvE and structured PvP you can play on any server does that mean I can freely switch servers without using gems? What is a home-server then? I thought when you make your account or something you just pick a server and that's that.
Also I apologize if these are incredibly stupid questions, I am an idiot afterall.
Your home-server is the server you pick when you're setting up your account, to change this you need to pay 1800 gems and you can't change home-servers more than once every 7 days.
Regardless of what your home-server is you can "guest" on other servers which allows you to play on any server for any game mode other than WvWvW with no real downside.
Thanks for the clarification. I guess settling on a server is only important for when we want to WvWvW but we can still do other stuff with guildmates regardless of where we are.
In that case I'll leave it up to you guys to decide a home server for us, but I do think a US server makes the most sense. If there were EU servers in the UK I'd be open to that but since they're all in Germany...
Well that doesn't sound too bad. I guess they wanted a little more structure to the gameplay which is understandable. I guess we're lucky since we already have a decent sized guild out of the gate so the "Social Aspect" is somewhat taken care of.
Indeed, other such misquotes from the article were:
This is the sort of thing that is usually reserved for Endgame in other MMOs
And
I was dropped into a town being attacked by Centaurs. I was given no quest, no waypoint, and no text. I just saw villagers in need of help and rushed to their side. Other players did the same.
Slarg.. I read the same review.. those where some of the reasons that raised my interest in the game. The dynamic quest system sounds like a awesome feature.
I also should note, i actually think the writer of that piece is wrong, I can do the same thing in WoW right now. 'The play and not talk to folks for an couple of hours' on my two back up servers. Hell on my main I barely talk to anyone other than guild mates.
With a guild in GW2 it'll feel exactly the same as WoW or any other MMO. Plus I gaurantee there will be folks like myself who will utilize 'say' plenty enough to tell other players nice job, or good fighting with ya, when doing things like taking out the big monster, or doing a good pvp defence.
Well if the server locations are germany or west coast US, Im thinking west coast would be a bit closer for me. So assuming less lag from the US servers.
Really wont know till the beta starts though I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Slarg.. I read the same review.. those where some of the reasons that raised my interest in the game. The dynamic quest system sounds like a awesome feature.
I also should note, i actually think the writer of that piece is wrong, I can do the same thing in WoW right now. 'The play and not talk to folks for an couple of hours' on my two back up servers. Hell on my main I barely talk to anyone other than guild mates.
With a guild in GW2 it'll feel exactly the same as WoW or any other MMO.
Plus I gaurantee there will be folks like myself who will utilize 'say' plenty enough to tell other players nice job, or good fighting with ya, when doing things like taking out the big monster, or doing a good pvp defence.
Sometimes I like to just play and not talk to people, sometimes I like being able to chat to people.
I caved and pre-ordered.... now the waiting begins...
Edit : I find their forums don't work, I get a /forums# at the links when I click them. I had to search the site to find the beta download... hmm not boding well so far...
Pyriona (one of my Skyrim characters, wrote lore about her and everything ) Norn Elementalist on Riverside EU... that is, if this black screen ever clears after that video you get following char creation.
EDIT: Assumed it was because people were getting knocked off, so I had to end the program and now i'm being told there's a transaction in progress, and to try later.
EDIT2: Will only be one until 9-9:30 tonight, because that's when the new series of Would I Lie to You?, Have I Got News for You and Not Going Out are on, then i'll be on after those until about 12-1am, because TBBT is on E4.
Well I'm on Eternal Grove character is Betawarlady (yes very creative I know). The game runs about as smoothly as a Power Point presentation. I love my computer : D
I got in several hours on my Guardian with Sword/Torch. Man, its freaking awesome to be breathing fire at everything! And the sword turned out very nicely for proc'ing the fire on the Justice virtue due to having a multi-attack ability. Now, I just need to figure out what other set of weapons would fit best.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ahhh, now I can not log in. No matter what I do, I keep getting the "Can not log in" error.
Transfer between servers DOES NOT work at the moment.
Network connection failures every single time.
Sadface :/
For newer American players, I actually recommend the European servers because the American servers are almost always near full during the hours that Americans are awake in anyway.
Ok, so now that I have played it, I want some grouping action going on! I tried to find everyone yesterday and either I found random individuals with the exact same name as your characters or I missed a character but nobody would respond to my whispers!
Either way, getting on.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, just an FYI, friends are added by the account e-mail name, not their character name.
Well waking up with a migraine wrecked any plans to play today, tried to force an hour in earlier, which was fun, but a mistake as my head got a lot worse.
Enjoying it so far, hoping I'll be able to play more tomorrow.
Having an ace time running around as a guardian, reminds me of prot paladin, love the fact if you change weapons you get different attacks and have to unlock them.
I have a couple questions about GW2.
First, the world type: Is the world regions connected by tunnels (AKA WoW) or open landscape (AKA Skyrim)?
Secondly, what are the best guesses for release date?
stompydakka wrote:I have a couple questions about GW2.
First, the world type: Is the world regions connected by tunnels (AKA WoW) or open landscape (AKA Skyrim)?
Secondly, what are the best guesses for release date?
Open landscape in some cases, tunnels in others. It varies. In one case, for example, there's a Norn city that's a fortress at the end of a pass, while in another case in the Human area it's a relatively free walk from one "town" to the next.
Found a good place to farm Weak Blood. The Giant Bats in the Cemetary next to Divinities Reach seems to drop them quite a bit (I only went through it once and got three vials), though they only seem to be their at night.
That's why I didn't make it a point to play it so much; I don't want to go through the entire Human Starting area five times only to have to do it again during Release.
I'll try Sylvari and Asura Starter Quests, but that's about it for the Beta for me.
Well, i've managed to get my Ele to level 14 with 74 Tailor and 49 Artificer levels, in about a day's worth of playing, so i'm calling that pretty decent.
What sucks is that I couldn't hit 15 in time, and lack the mats for another level of each profession to hit 75 and 50 respectively >.<
Well, that finale was rather fun. Giant Raccoons and Veteran Black Moas that were nightmares to defeat. As usual, quantity of players provided the quality to slaughter them until Anet just kicked everyone.
I gained half (was already over halfway through 14 when we started, and hit just over 15) but the Great Moa Slaughter shall be remembered on Riverside for a while.
EDIT: I'm now off to hibernate until the next beta event.
I'm just having barrels of fun with my Fire Ele at the moment. At first I thought scepter and off-hand was the way to go, purely because of the giant flaming spike you hurl down for your second weapon-specific attack, but then I caved and tried a staff, and loved it; Meteor Shower is quite fun.
The only thing is that i'm collecting Power and Precision above Vitality and Toughness, so i'm as squishy as a sloppy gak.
After playing around with the Guardian, I think making a Fire Condition based Guardian is going to be interesting. But I was originally going about it the wrong way.
But, I also learned that a Sword/Axe Ranger is freaking awesome as hell to play. Bouncing around, attacking targets at different angles and throwing your boomerang axe!
I also tried to make an Earth Elementalist but all the weapon combinations really did not satisify me. Either too much protection or not enough, there was not a good middle ground. I think Scepter/Dagger did the best.
For necro, switching between staff and dagger/dagger I found was the best strategy.
The staff allows you to be the minecromancer-- that is to say, you have four marks which are basically mines, including a heal (or rather, regen buff to allies), while the staff's main attack generates tons of life force (especially against mobs of enemies) which allows you to regenerate life force very quickly. The dagger/dagger on the other hand does lots of conditions, steals health, and does extra damage depending on how many conditions that the enemy has. This combined with the minemark that transfers your allies' conditions to the enemy, the plague signet which transfers your allies' signets to yourself (and transfer them to your enemy when activated), and consume conditions (heals extra per condition you have, and removes all conditions), the signet of spite (grants power and gives a whole metric fethton of conditions when activated), and the signet of undeath (generates life force, revives all nearby allies when activated) allows the necromancer to be the master of debuff control and gives you tons of life force to play with death shroud.
It's very hard to play and you have to pay special attention to your and your enemys' debuffs to make it work though.
Beta was excellent, met all my expectations and exceeded some - and that is really, really hard to do with the absolutely gigantic hype train it had going.
I'm even more excited that, as unoptimized as the game was, I only ever lagged when there was a LOT of people in one area - and that wasn't my machine.
My machine is top-end, but I was surprised in the beta nonetheless.
yeah.
Do any of you guys know much about graphics cards? i know my computer has all the other requirements, but...
it's an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series w/ 1GB dedicated memory.
Anyone know if that will run it?
Mine's an ATI Radeon HD 4800 series, and that ran absolutely fine unless there were tons of people in the same area. The 4650 isn't that far behind the 4800, so i'd say it could probably run it.
Mine can run when there's people around without bother, it's when you run into large masses that it starts to lag.
I played about 14 or so hours on Sunday/Monday from late afternoon/evening to the End of Beta Weekend event, and the only times it lagged were during global spikes or during the event at the end where there were tons of people in one place, all casting spells.
Great, thanks... so I should be set then. I'm actually super psyched for this game, and a buddy is getting it too. (so many of my friends only play COD... sigh....)
So anyway, sorry if this was posted but I missed it...
will there be a Dakka guild?
Karon wrote:Beta was excellent, met all my expectations and exceeded some - and that is really, really hard to do with the absolutely gigantic hype train it had going.
I'm even more excited that, as unoptimized as the game was, I only ever lagged when there was a LOT of people in one area - and that wasn't my machine.
My machine is top-end, but I was surprised in the beta nonetheless.
Yes, it really only has a problem when there's lots of people on the screen at once.
And my computer's old, like January 2006 old (2.67ghz dual core, 3.25gb ram, Windows XP SP3, ATI Radeon HD 3850).
I ran it in medium settings and only got lag when there were three dozen or more people around me all casting spells. And even then it was still going fast enough that I was able to keep up in combat.
I find that's the case with melee combat in general. Especially in crowded situations, or against large monsters where you're too close to see the tells for each attack.
As far as risk/reward is concerned for melee and ranged weaponry, at least for PvE (all I did in the beta) I think something needs to be changed.
Ya, when I ran into that Shadow Behemoth in the swamp, it was kinda hard to tell what was going on with my Guardian. I was always right in front of the beast and I could not fit the entire thing in my screen.
Xeriapt wrote:Did anyone else find they were short on funds pretty often?
Seemed like I was always broke lol.
I was perpetually broke. I had to scrounge up cash from selling what I crafted to vendors since it wasn't going for very much more in the... whatever it's called (i'll just call it AH for now ). I got my traits book around level 14
Next beta will be spent trying to play the AH a bit, because i'm sick of being penniless.
Fafnir wrote:I find that's the case with melee combat in general. Especially in crowded situations, or against large monsters where you're too close to see the tells for each attack.
As far as risk/reward is concerned for melee and ranged weaponry, at least for PvE (all I did in the beta) I think something needs to be changed.
The point is that every class has ranged options and should take them, hence the two weapon sets.
Classes that don't have two weapon sets have ranged options built into all their weapon skill bars.
Interestingly, after that event, I think I have now focused on making my Burning Guardian much better. Here is my more focused build: Burning Guardian
The Virtue of Justice causing burning on every 5th hit (or 4th hit if you have Judgemental) works on everything that will "hit". This includes AoEs, cone effects, ect. This lets weapons that do not have an innate way to cause burning to easily cause it due to maybe having an ability that does multiple hits (like Zealot's Defense and Cleansing Flame, which surprisingly does not cause the Burning condition but does a ton of small hits very fast so basically will cause Burning if Justice is up.)
The Burning condition deals a good amount of damage but generally has short durations. But multiple stacks of Burning increases the duration of this condition. With the above mentioned build, I can easily keep 2 targets which are close together permanently on fire between AoE attacks and multiple attack skills.
The above mentioned build has many teleports and a way to keep him/herself moving, staying with your intented target, with a Stability boon and many ways to remove conditions with the abilities (Cleansing Flame and Purging Flames are good examples).
Fafnir wrote:I find that's the case with melee combat in general. Especially in crowded situations, or against large monsters where you're too close to see the tells for each attack.
As far as risk/reward is concerned for melee and ranged weaponry, at least for PvE (all I did in the beta) I think something needs to be changed.
The point is that every class has ranged options and should take them, hence the two weapon sets.
Classes that don't have two weapon sets have ranged options built into all their weapon skill bars.
In fact, I quite like using the rifle to start off Volley does a lot of damage quickly, and then I pull out the greatsword and hack them to pieces.
Switching between weapons usually results in the best strategy. Even my dedicated lightning elementalist has some water for healing purposes and further debuffs.
I'm going to have to get used to switching to Water for healing with my Fire Ele; maybe stick Earth somewhere in there for good measure, and to ensure that Fire has cooled down by the time I come to use it again.
Fafnir wrote:I find that's the case with melee combat in general. Especially in crowded situations, or against large monsters where you're too close to see the tells for each attack.
As far as risk/reward is concerned for melee and ranged weaponry, at least for PvE (all I did in the beta) I think something needs to be changed.
The point is that every class has ranged options and should take them, hence the two weapon sets.
Classes that don't have two weapon sets have ranged options built into all their weapon skill bars.
The problem is that ranged combat is always the better option. In my entire time playing the beta, never once did I ever feel that I would be in a better position by engaging in melee combat for any reason.
Sure, you can say that melee combat will yield more damage, but since you have to spend most of your time evading and repositioning, any increase in damage is lost to the constant barrage you can throw out with ranged combat, while also being at much less risk and presenting many more options for utility and support.
As it is now, melee combat in PvE is a poor choice. Yes, you can do well with melee combat, I did so on several occasions, but ranged is always better.
However Melee has a huge amount of options for closing the gap, higher damage, more powerful conditions and higher attack speed. Melee seems underpowered because 99% of players are newbs at the moment.
Did you read my post? It doesn't matter if melee does more spike damage, since you spend more time repositioning and evading attacks. With that in mind, any extra damage at this point in time is lost to the consistency of ranged weaponry.
Furthermore, even though you have more options for conditions and control at close range, you don't really need that at long range anyway, since the need for clutch defense is quite low.
Additionally, some melee weapons may have gap closers, but ranged weapons don't need them, which opens up another skill slot.
Skilled melee fighters can succeed, but ranged fighters do it much more easily and are generally more consistently effective.
Keep in mind, this is concerning PvE. PvP is likely a very different beast. But as it is now, there's no reason to pick melee combat for PvE.
It doesn't matter whether melee combat can be successful or not if ranged combat completely trivializes it.
Fafnir wrote:The problem is that ranged combat is always the better option. In my entire time playing the beta, never once did I ever feel that I would be in a better position by engaging in melee combat for any reason.
I did. My greatsword, even with equivalent stats, was almost invariably a better damage dealer than my rifle, due to its numerous multi-hit attacks, especially its first attack which was a three hit combo, and its second attack, which was a nasty seven hit combo with a big finisher that hit EVERY enemy in front of it.
Warrior greatsword > all warrior ranged weapons in terms of number of attacks per minute.
Fafnir wrote:Did you read my post? It doesn't matter if melee does more spike damage, since you spend more time repositioning and evading attacks. With that in mind, any extra damage at this point in time is lost to the consistency of ranged weaponry.
Furthermore, even though you have more options for conditions and control at close range, you don't really need that at long range anyway, since the need for clutch defense is quite low.
Additionally, some melee weapons may have gap closers, but ranged weapons don't need them, which opens up another skill slot.
Skilled melee fighters can succeed, but ranged fighters do it much more easily and are generally more consistently effective.
Keep in mind, this is concerning PvE. PvP is likely a very different beast. But as it is now, there's no reason to pick melee combat for PvE.
It doesn't matter whether melee combat can be successful or not if ranged combat completely trivializes it.
I did read your post but I don't seem to understand what you mean. Ranged combat requires less skill to use well but isn't as effective whereas melee is harder to use but more effective in that it does far more damage so it will kill mobs quicker. In high skill level melee and ranged play (as seen in PvP) are pretty much equal so, while melee may not be the best for new players, it follows that in higher level PvE (where the mobs ARE harder in terms of pure numbers, AI and mechanics) the two will also be equal.
It's not like ranged weapons make you immune to damage, ranged mobs still shoot you (and require you to move/dodge) and melee mobs will charge at you (requiring you to move out of the way).
And I wouldn't give up my necro's dagger for her staff, if I had to make the choice. Having life draining ability is just too important to her build, and the staff doesn't have it while the daggers do.
Same iwth the daggerdagger build on my elementalist-- I played with the staff for a bit and it was certainl fun, but the daggers just have generally better skills.
Aaaand on my warrior, same thing. The rifle is great, especially with its main attack doing bleeding and having an adrenaline attack which does absolutely obscene damage... but the greatsword actually still does MORE damage, and to a greater number of enemies (the rifle's attacks all hit one enemies, while the greatsword's attacks hit groups). If I tried to use the rifle to take on the groups I can kill with my greatsword, I'd die every time. But the rifle is great for going against bosses, especially if I can make sure a different player is taking the boss' aggro-- a high amount of single target damage combined with some decent debuffs that really just can't be beat... IF you can keep the aggro off of you.
Well with my guardian I pretty much just played greatsword for the most part and while I had an ability to teleport to my target, a leap to target ability and an ability to pull people to me, for the most part people could still escape me pretty easy just by dodging away and running for the hills.
It kinda seemed like you could get 1 or 2 hits in using those abilities to reach your target but that was all.
In that sense you could say ranged is more effective because its easier to get close enough to your target to do dmg.
It is easier to get in range, but you also do less damage and have less effective skills.
My necro's daggers do more damage than her staff, easily, and she has a life drain and a power t hat does more damage the more debuffs are on the enemy (think about that for a moment, she's a necromancer-- a debuff based class), which is an AoE to boot.
Xeriapt wrote:Surely the damage isnt that much less for ranged though? I didnt really play much ranged.
It really is.
Think about it this way-- my rifle and greatsword, both high damage two-handed weapons did about the same amount of damage (the rifle slightly more than the greatsword if you include the bleeding effect on every shot of the primary attack, but the greatsword hits more often). The greatsword, however, did it to three or four enemies at the same time (or more, actually, basically every enemy in melee range). So the actual damage output was greater.
Same with my elementalist-- the lightning whip (primary dagger, air attunement, first skill) did twice as much damage as the primary attack on the staff and attacked faster to boot, although the staff's effect did bounce (chain lightning).
I found that wading into melee in pvp tended to see you dead pretty quick unless you go in for a few strikes then back off.
Whereas the people in the backlines firing projectiles and spells tended to be able to do so without much fear of retaliation.
Perhaps this is due to people not understanding the need to flank your enemies and such though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: One thing I was annoyed about though is that when I used the sceptre's ranged attacks to hit people on walls, my attacks just hit the base of the wall not the people...
I love how terrain is actually solid against ranged attacks; sure, it makes it harder for me to hit some things with fireballs, but the realism it adds is crucial to avoid it becoming just another WoW fight, where spells fly through trees and walls.
Now height actually means something, and having the higher ground gives you an actual advantage instead of being able to see someone's topknot and launching a lightning bolt through a whole cliff to get them.
As for dual daggers vs staff, I haven't tried the daggers yet but i'm having too much fun with my staff at the moment.
Xeriapt wrote:What if your only attacking one target though?
Rifle to start off, greatsword to finish, usually.
The rifle pulls the target at me with volley or its two debuffs, and then the greatsword finishes them off.
Against a single enemy there's not actually that much reason to use rifle the entire way-- as I said, the greatsword hits faster tahn the rifle while doing roughly equivalent damage. Greatsword applies vulnerability while rifle applies bleeding, with the third greatsword hit in each combo doing more damage.
edit: just checked the numbers.
Rifle's Bleeding Shot does 213 damage and -270 damage over time from bleeding assuming max level and no traits. In the same amount of time, the greatsword does [373 damage, -30 defense], [373 damage, -30 defense], and [480 damage].
Rifle's Volley does 376*5 damage, to a total of 1880, while Greatsword's Hundred Blades does 2576 damage including the final strike.
So actually the greatsword does better damage, especially including the loss of damage reduction due to decreased defense (two stacks of -30, stacks duration IIRC). Both of them benefit from condition duration increases, although rifle benefits more from condition damage increases (unless they also effect the Vulnerability condition). Greatsword's Bladetrail does the same debuff as Aimed Shot, but hits more targets and does about three times more damage per hit, although Aimed Shot has a longer duration on its Cripple effect (five seconds) than Bladetrail (four seconds) as well as half the recharge time of Bladetrail (ten as opposed to twenty seconds) and has twice the range. Brutal Shot's vulnerability lasts longer, but it also cannot be constantly applied like the Greatsword basic slash attack without some condition length increasing traits.
Then there's the remaining skills. Rifle has a surprisingly powerful skill in Rifle Butt which has a very strong knockback and does a surprising amount of damage-- I've seen it knock down champion monsters. And Greatsword has two movement skills, Whirlwind attack (does a standard hit to every enemy on its path) and Charge (does a weak hit, charging to melee range on the target). Surprisingly, Charge has about the same range as most rifle skills (1200), while Whirlwind attack has just over three times melee range (450), so combined with Bladetrail, keeping a greatsword user out of range is quite difficult even if you have them crippled.
They're both quite powerful weapons mind you. The rifle, however, is not simply better than the greatsword despite the range advantage. Though ti is useful in keeping out of range of attacks, I'll grant you that.
I did read your post but I don't seem to understand what you mean. Ranged combat requires less skill to use well but isn't as effective whereas melee is harder to use but more effective in that it does far more damage so it will kill mobs quicker.
Ranged combat requires less skill to be effective, less effort to be successful, poses less risks thanks to being outside of most enemy attack ranges while also having a better view of their more telegraphed attacks, and grants you more consistent damage as you do not have to dance around them all day in between attacks. Yes, if you put the two standing still beside one another and had them slug it out, the melee fighter would finish a mob faster, but as we know for melee, that's almost never the case against most mobs, who will kill you very quickly if you try to stand still. In most cases, especially against champion mobs, you will have to move in and out of combat, meaning that there will be periods where you can't attack. This is not the case for ranged weaponry, since you will almost always be in range once you've engaged.
Additionally, ranged weaponry tends to have an even easier time dodging enemy attacks, since while many melee weapons have their higher damage skills requiring you to stand still and get pummeled, ranged weaponry allows you to move and fire their similar skills (such as the Thief's Unload) at the same time.
In high skill level melee and ranged play (as seen in PvP) are pretty much equal so,
As I've previously stated, I'm not talking about PvP.
while melee may not be the best for new players, it follows that in higher level PvE (where the mobs ARE harder in terms of pure numbers, AI and mechanics) the two will also be equal.
Actually, the AI of higher level monsters is largely the same as lower levels. They may have more skills at their disposal, and be overall stronger, but the basic mechanic of their design is the same: target the closest enemy player. PvP and PvE are two completely different monsters, and the way melee skills are handled in PvP is completely different to how they are in PvE.
It's not like ranged weapons make you immune to damage, ranged mobs still shoot you (and require you to move/dodge) and melee mobs will charge at you (requiring you to move out of the way).
There's a reason why the developers have responded specifically on this issue (https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Melee-vs-Ranged/131324), and on the subject that mobs clearly don't have enough ranged options or ranged counters, and the fact that their AI needs to be tweaked. Yes, many enemies do have ranged options, but not enough to threaten ranged characters enough compared to melee.
Melissia wrote:
Aaaand on my warrior, same thing. The rifle is great, especially with its main attack doing bleeding and having an adrenaline attack which does absolutely obscene damage... but the greatsword actually still does MORE damage, and to a greater number of enemies (the rifle's attacks all hit one enemies, while the greatsword's attacks hit groups). If I tried to use the rifle to take on the groups I can kill with my greatsword, I'd die every time. But the rifle is great for going against bosses, especially if I can make sure a different player is taking the boss' aggro-- a high amount of single target damage combined with some decent debuffs that really just can't be beat... IF you can keep the aggro off of you.
If you want to attack groups, why are you using the rifle? Longbow handles groups far better than rifles.
THe longbow does FAR less damage to both single targwets AND to groups than the greatsword.
The greatsword's primary area attack does 2576 damage-- in PvP this is actually a fairly weak attack because it's so avoidable, but in PvE, this is a staggeringly powerful attack. The longbow's equivalent attack does 858, and most of it is DoT. The greatsword's next area attack does 373. The longbow's next area attack does 112 and blinds the enemies it hits. The greatsword's last area attack does 469 damage and slows all enemies it hits. The longbow's last area attack does 690 damage that is pure DoT.
The greatsword is several times better against crowds than the longbow is.
Yes, but you can sit back at range, not have to take time to close in, not have to take time to reposition, and fire off your decently powerful AoEs while taking no damage.
You're also discounting the fact that the Greatsword's most damaging ability requires you to be rooted in place and easy prey for anything, which tends to be a bad idea when most attacks will kill you in one or two hits.
Hell, the thief's shortbow allows it to hit multiple enemies with its autoattack, making it clearly superior against mobs of enemies for any reason in comparison to its melee options. It's (2) ability, if timed properly, can also do great damage, even against single targets.
I'm not saying that melee damage is less than ranged damage. I'm saying that it's not worth the risk involved.
Fafnir wrote:Yes, but you can sit back at range, not have to take time to close in
Take time? Two of the greatsword's attacks launch you at your target. One of them has GREATER range than the longbow (1200 range as opposed to the longbow's 900). A warrior with a greatsword will be in combat attacking before the warrior with the longbow can fire his first shot. The other one can launch you through enemies, being used to not only attack but also to dodge while still attacking.
Okay, so your success with the greatsword shows that all melee weapons and loadouts in the game are just fine and require no tuning.
The Warrior has plenty of effective gap closer, not every other class does, and those that they do have may not be as effective. Additionally, on a 20 second cooldown, if you have to back away to dodge a big attack inbetween, tough luck, you're walking back in. Gap closers are not the only issue.
Fafnir wrote:Okay, so your success with the greatsword shows that all melee weapons and loadouts in the game are just fine and require no tuning.
No, I'm just saying that melee weapons don't all suck.
I also present to you dagger/dagger necromancers and dagger/dagger elementalists-- both of which are melee weapons despite being spellcasters.
Dagger/dagger elementalists do astounding amounts of damage and have good methods to close rank with the enemy, and even methods to get AWAY from the enemy as well (one in particular has you evade backwards, gives you Swiftness, and knocks down enemies in front of you).
Dagger/dagger necromancers also do more damage than, say, staff necromancers, and have better powers for keeping themselves alive (namely, their life steal attacks and various debuffs). Of course, for necros, switching weapon sets is almost always the best strategy because it relies on lots of debuffs-- and the staff has some useful powers that can be placed on the ground and still prove useful after you switch back to your other weapons.
For the classes I played, I definitely used either the melee weapons alone, or a mixture of melee and ranged as the situation demanded it. But I never found that melee weapons were underpowered in PvE.
Keep in mind that the dagger skills for necromancer and elementalist tend to focus on medium range, with some skills built around close range.
As for myself, having played Thief and Mesmer primarily (with some light experimentation with warrior), I almost always found myself opting to use ranged weaponry over melee.
Although I tried to use a dagger/dagger or sword/pistol on my thief from time to time, pistol/pistol or pistol/dagger would always end up being more reliable single target weapons for any purpose, and shortbow always had a place on my loadout because it was just better than any melee option while also being effective at crowd control at range. The only time I recall close range with the thief being effective was when I was fighting some enemies in a closed in area of an inn.
As for the mesmer, wielding the sword/offhand combo was horrendously bad when weapons like the staff and greatsword were available, offering much more damage and control, with a premium on safety that even the invulnerability granted by Blurred Frenzy could not give. By time I moved on from my Mesmer to try other classes, I was fighting groups of mobs 6 levels higher than me with ease at range, while combat with enemies at the same level as myself with melee was more of an exercise in frustration.
I was fighting groups of mobs the same level difference as my greatsword using warrior.
If those weapons are weak, though, then I'd agree they need balancing.
Necromancer and elementalist attacks with daggers are primarily melee though, not really medium range. For example, the dagger/dagger air set (the one I've been using) is essentially a pure melee set (the three primary dagger attacks are all melee range, and the two secondary dagger attacks, one is a charge-into-melee attack and the other one is an evade), and three of hte dagger/dagger necro skills are melee attacks with only two medium ranged attacks (the secondary dagger's attacks, deathly swarm and enfeebling blood).
All necromancer dagger skills except for the autoattack equal or exceed 300 units, at which point I would consider them medium range.
Also, although I haven't tried WvW, I've heard that Guardians are particularly useless for that mode specifically because of their lack of long range options. It wouldn't surprise me, especially since Anet commented on addressing the Guardian's issue of range.
As for the issue itself, here's what I think:
1)Anet intends for players to take a load out of two weapon sets, and switch them to fit the situation accordingly. Although every weapon set is its own unique and complete skillset, there are some challenges that require you to use different ones for optimal results.
2)As it stands right now, even in cases where some melee weapons aren't terrible options in comparison to their ranged counterparts, every class requires some form of ranged option in their load out to be effective. In other words, players suffer for melee/melee load outs, but ranged/ranged load outs suffer no real penalties, and are able to approach all situations with a degree of competence.
3)The way the AI and mobs in the game are developed goes on to emphasize this disparity further. Mob AI has them target the closest enemy, meaning ranged fighters have very little to worry about for the most part. Although some mobs do have tools to act as gap closers and engaging tools, there are not enough out there, and they are not potent enough to threaten ranged fighters, especially with the way mob targetting works. Additionally, many mobs, especially larger ones, are lacking suitable 'tells' needed to inform players of when an attack is coming. This is especially notable at close range against larger mobs, where the player may be too close in to actually see what the mob is doing. Additionally, there are a large amount of self-targetting AoEs present on large mobs/champions that make the standard strafing melee method of avoiding enemy attacks invalid, meaning players in melee have to time their dodges around attacks that are difficult or impossible to see. The presence of lag/input delay, and the long recharge time on dodging only exacerbates the issue.
4)Melee combat, from my personal experience, tends to be somewhat boring at times, since much of the focus tends to be on simply circle strafing while activating skills in the most effective order to achieve the highest damage.
5)In terms of comparison of risk/reward, many melee weapons simply lack suitable rewards for the risk involved when in comparison to melee. Keep in mind, the melee fighter will have to spend some time moving in and out of range to avoid attacks that the ranged fighter generally doesn't. In most cases, this means that melee fighter will end up losing out on damage output over time, as ranged fighters can kite while dealing damage at the same time, even while retreating. Furthermore, melee fighters will die more often, since they are always targets of priority and also within range of a mobs' most dangerous attacks. You deal no damage when you're dead.
6)As for fixing this disparity, I think one of the first things that should be done is fixing mob target priority as well as giving them tools to fight ranged combatants more effectively. Pulls, gap closers, and ranged attacks should be more potent on enemy mobs, and target priority should work to maximize these abilities. Furthermore, mobs should target enemies who either pose the most threat, or who are enabling allies the most, rather than just the person closest to them.
In other words, mobs should make an effort to attack players supporting and healing, in addition to those who are doing melee damage. With this change, not only would some of the focus on melee fighters be removed, but a new dynamic involving using the control ability (stuns, disables, etc) of melee weaponry to prevent and protect would lead to more dynamic combat as a whole (as opposed to simply circle strafing a mob until it dies), similar to that of GW1.
Fafnir wrote:All necromancer dagger skills except for the autoattack equal or exceed 300 units, at which point I would consider them medium range.
300 units is not medium range, it's point blank.
Fafnir wrote:As it stands right now, even in cases where some melee weapons aren't terrible options in comparison to their ranged counterparts, every class requires some form of ranged option in their load out to be effective.
I don't agree with this. I chose rifle/greatsword because it's cool mostly, but greatswrord alone would be perfectly fine for warrior by itself.
Fafnir wrote:Additionally, many mobs, especially larger ones, are lacking suitable 'tells' needed to inform players of when an attack is coming.
This, however, I agree with. Champions Online and DC Universe Online both did this far better than GW2.
IIRC, Champions Online had a series of flashing symbols for this. An explosion box for AoE, an exclamation point for a single target attack, and a green cloud for an incoming control attack (hold, stun, etc), which melee players used to allow them to stun and block. Mind you, Champions had similar melee vs ranged problems at times.
Fafnir wrote:Melee combat, from my personal experience, tends to be somewhat boring at times, since much of the focus tends to be on simply circle strafing while activating skills in the most effective order to achieve the highest damage.
... as opposed to standing still and doing the same thing with ranged weapons?
Fafnir wrote:All necromancer dagger skills except for the autoattack equal or exceed 300 units, at which point I would consider them medium range.
300 units is not medium range, it's point blank.
130 is point blank (range of most melee attacks). 300 is on the shorter end, but it's not quite point blank.
Fafnir wrote:As it stands right now, even in cases where some melee weapons aren't terrible options in comparison to their ranged counterparts, every class requires some form of ranged option in their load out to be effective.
I don't agree with this. I chose rifle/greatsword because it's cool mostly, but greatswrord alone would be perfectly fine for warrior by itself.
How far in did you get, and was what race? I know some situations where melee combat was just a terrible idea even from my short experience with the beta. There have even been some people talking about some areas where melee combat is just impossible (Ascalonian Catacombs, IIRC).
Fafnir wrote:Melee combat, from my personal experience, tends to be somewhat boring at times, since much of the focus tends to be on simply circle strafing while activating skills in the most effective order to achieve the highest damage.
... as opposed to standing still and doing the same thing with ranged weapons?
Both suck. Circle strafing requires one more button press than standing still.
Fafnir wrote:How far in did you get, and was what race? I know some situations where melee combat was just a terrible idea even from my short experience with the beta. There have even been some people talking about some areas where melee combat is just impossible (Ascalonian Catacombs, IIRC)
My human warrior and norn elementalist got to level ten, and my human necromancer got to level fifteen, IIRC.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way, I recommend trying out Champions Online (it has a free to play mode, less customization but the same gameplay) to see what I mean about its dodge and block mechanics.
The ranged vs melee disparity certainly exists and needs tweaking but I found it manageable at most times. However, when you get to some sort of boss and there's like 30 other people with you, melee is essentially useless.
The boss is scaled to astronomical lvls OHKO'ing players with ease. Normally, such attacks have tells (usually) but when there's 30 people blasting spells and covering the enemy in a veil of particle effects; figuring out where you are and what the boss is doing is unrealistic. Furthermore, even if you could make melee work, why would you? Using ranged on a boss takes a fraction of the effort and will yield the same if not greater damage output.
I do want to mention that I still found being a Warrior hella fun, the Greatsword especially. I played Sword+Horn (seems better for PvP with all the movement control) and a Greatsword, which dominated in PvE after I got the hang of it, but Warrior-Greatsword seems to be the exception to the rule in melee. With its ridiculous damage output the reward is actually worth the risk.
I also had a Thief with Shortbow/Sword+Dagger I managed to find uses for both but in general the Shortbow seemed better, except when the bouncing arrows pulled dudes unintentionally. I also played a Staff/Scepter+Sword Mesmer but only for a little. I also want to add that forcing people to take a ranged weapon in addition to their melee weapon would be a poor way to balance.
Also not to derail the current conversation but while we're on the topic of balance did anyone else find Ranger to be kinda OP?
LunaHound wrote:Guild War2
Starwars
Tera Online
Diablo III
Only time for 1, suggestions?
Well here's my take:
Starwars TOR: The Expanded Universe has gotten kinda dumb over the years so I'm not sure how much the patented Bioware storytelling will cary. Other than that, I think it's just about as generic as an MMO could get, which is not a good thing IMO. Also there's the subscription fee.
Tera: I'm not sure if this one of the many MMO's that come out of Korea but either way it certainly has the aesthetics of one. I find the entire art direction to be absolutely terrible and because of the obvious immediacy of the visual; it's so distracting, off-putting, and jarring I don't think I could play it regardless of how neat the gameplay is, and whether or not the gameplay is any good remains to be seen anyway. It also probably has a monthly fee.
Diablo III: I'm certain this game will be good, so far the only real downside to me is the constant need to have an internet connection even if you want to to go solo. It's less open-worldy, MMOish, and social than the other games because it's not a traditional MMO as I understand the genre. It's more like a cooperative action-RPG loot 'n' dungeon fest. A great one if the beta is any indication. Also no subscription is a bonus though it isn't really an MMO.
Guild Wars 2: I admit I'm a huge fanboy but it does have some ideas that are rather different from the normal conventions of MMO's, and all very smart changes I'd say. However that does mean you need to do some reasearch on a game like GW2 to know what you're getting into, but I think anyone who does do the requisite research will probably be eager to board the Guild Wars train. It excels in pretty much all departments so far: graphics, sound, art, optimization, gameplay, customization, ease of use, and probably more. In fact GW2 and Diablo 3 are the only games I'm really looking forward to this year. Finally, no monthly fee is a big deal. It's not free to play or micro-transaction heavy (the items that you can get are really only cosmetic and convenience items) and all the micro-transactions can be bought with in game currency anyway. GW2 is priced like a traditional game: pay 60 bucks and then you're good to go but there's optional purely cosmetic "DLC" as it were.
Fafnir wrote:How far in did you get, and was what race? I know some situations where melee combat was just a terrible idea even from my short experience with the beta. There have even been some people talking about some areas where melee combat is just impossible (Ascalonian Catacombs, IIRC)
My human warrior and norn elementalist got to level ten, and my human necromancer got to level fifteen, IIRC.
Well, we both ended up at similar levels by time the beta ended, so neither of us can really speak for later on. Hopefully melee begins to even out once traits start getting involved, but for as far as I know from personal experience, and from what I've watched and read so far, I'll still have to stick to my stance.
I got an Engineer to level 22 and unless I dodged and circle strafed mobs just walk up to me and start wailing, I didn't really play much in the way of huge group events though.
If you preorder it you get a code for the closed beta right? Because I preordered it today at EB games (90 bucks, better be worth it!) and they didnt have a of the codes at the time, so could I get it of the GW2 website or something, or do I have to wait?
JohnnoM wrote:If you preorder it you get a code for the closed beta right? Because I preordered it today at EB games (90 bucks, better be worth it!) and they didnt have a of the codes at the time, so could I get it of the GW2 website or something, or do I have to wait?
Did you pre-order (paid a deposit, will pay the rest on release) or pre-purchase (paid the whole sum up front)?
If you pre-order you do not get beta access whereas if you pre-purchase you do.
I tended to completely avoid melee if I could. Granted I was playing as a Sceptre+Warhorn/Staff Necromancer with a couple of minions so I could quite easily chill or immobilize anything nasty that came my way.
A few in my guild were playing as Guardians though and they all said it seemed to be the most balanced class in terms of damage output (in melee) coupled with resistance.
Best part of the Beta was taking on the Shadow Colossus in the swamp Loved the way the camera zoomed out so you could see the whole area, made the event seem really epic!
JohnnoM wrote:If you preorder it you get a code for the closed beta right? Because I preordered it today at EB games (90 bucks, better be worth it!) and they didnt have a of the codes at the time, so could I get it of the GW2 website or something, or do I have to wait?
Did you pre-order (paid a deposit, will pay the rest on release) or pre-purchase (paid the whole sum up front)?
If you pre-order you do not get beta access whereas if you pre-purchase you do.
Pre ordered. So, if i pay it off completely i'll get access to the beta?
JohnnoM wrote:If you preorder it you get a code for the closed beta right? Because I preordered it today at EB games (90 bucks, better be worth it!) and they didnt have a of the codes at the time, so could I get it of the GW2 website or something, or do I have to wait?
Did you pre-order (paid a deposit, will pay the rest on release) or pre-purchase (paid the whole sum up front)?
If you pre-order you do not get beta access whereas if you pre-purchase you do.
Pre ordered. So, if i pay it off completely i'll get access to the beta?
Depends on the retailer, you may be able to pay it off... you are meant to get a physical box with the code in it from them.
JohnnoM wrote:If you preorder it you get a code for the closed beta right? Because I preordered it today at EB games (90 bucks, better be worth it!) and they didnt have a of the codes at the time, so could I get it of the GW2 website or something, or do I have to wait?
Did you pre-order (paid a deposit, will pay the rest on release) or pre-purchase (paid the whole sum up front)?
If you pre-order you do not get beta access whereas if you pre-purchase you do.
Pre ordered. So, if i pay it off completely i'll get access to the beta?
Depends on the retailer, you may be able to pay it off... you are meant to get a physical box with the code in it from them.
I dont think EB actually knows what the pre-purchase thing is. All I did was pre-order the collectors and pay for the lot up front, then they gave me the code on a piece of cardboard. I just made sure that they knew I wanted the codes or I wasnt going to get the game from them lol.
We’ll be conducting a stress test on Monday May 14 from 11 AM to 6:00 PM PDT (-7 GMT).
This special test event is open only to Pre-Purchase customers who have registered their accounts. With your help, we can conduct important tests and address some of the issues we identified during our first Beta Weekend Event. During this event, all you need to do is play normally with a new or existing chara...cter on your Beta account using the same game client. Please note that since this is a stress test of our servers, you may experience some in-game performance issues. If you’ve pre-purchased Guild Wars 2 and wish to participate in the stress test, we recommend that you register the account and download the game client.
Pre-Purchase customers, log in to the Beta Forums for more information and/or to download the Beta client if needed.
Also it's the same build as before so there are no gameplay changes and characters from the last beta are preserved, I guess they are just trying out new server stuff.
Well, that playthrough gave me a bit more insight into juggling specs, although the water spells for the staff are horrific; one splash-based heal (which requires you to hug the enemy; simply being in melee range isn't enough to catch the splash), one tiny, 4-second AoE heal, and one large AoE heal that requires you to sand still whilst casting, and takes a while to cast.
Not one of those heals is useful in a fight, simply because you have to avoid the enemy, slow the enemy, run around to try and not be caught, and try to anticipate where you'll be once the cast is done.
Unless you're able to sit still and fling spells the entire time, it's pointless even trying to heal yourself; either you sit still to get the full effect, and have it mitigated by being hammered on by mobs, or you catch parts of the heal, and hope the next hit you take isn't critical.
I've also discovered that Fire doesn't play nearly as large of a part in a basic staff Ele rotation as i'd hoped; it's nearly all Water, Air and Earth.
Air provides you with the best balance of damage to other abilites, what with Chain Lightning doing decent damage per cast, and Lightning Surge being on a relatively short cooldown, Gust is vital against melee units, and Windborne giving you Swiftness to allow for quick escapes should you be waiting for Gust, or if you don't necessarily need to waste Gust, and also removing chilled and those sorts of effects, plus Static Field being handy for slowing crap down.
Earth is okay, but lacks anything that really makes you stick with it; Eruption has an extraordinarily long build time after casting until it actually does something, Stoning isn't great unless you're in a party or group event, Unsteady Ground was, from what I could see, unreliable. Magnetic Aura, however, makes Earth a necessary part of the rotation against ranged units, and Shockwave apparently immobilises units (although for how long I don't know, since it didn't seem to have much of an effect when I cast it, if any).
Water, as I explained, is quite pants. The only other spells are Ice Spike (AoE with a delayed strike after cast which causes vulnerability) and Frozen Ground, with only the latter of those being globally useful (although Ice Spike only has a 4s cooldown).
My basic rotation was usually hopping from Earth (start off with eruption against ranged units, followed by aura as damage was dealt; against melee I started off with Shockwave and Unsteady Ground), to Air (for basic damage, speed boosts and general avoidance + damage), then Water for Frozen Ground and healing, then back to Earth to start again if the need arose.
Fire just didn't really play any sort of part; by the time i'd finished with Air and/or Water, Earth would be pretty much off cooldown (highest CD for Earth is 20s), then once done there, Air would be off CD (apart from maybe Static Field, but that wouldn't have long left); trying to add in Fire just messed up my timing and threw my rotation unless it was a group event.
Frustratingly once I got to 175 cooking most of the ingredients I could make (like ginger dressing or ginger marinade) didn't appear on the discovery screen so I couldn't really advance
Heh, that's pretty much the least supportive build you could have made
Still a fine build, though I would avoid using turrets and rocket boots as the rocket boots tend to blast you out of the turrets range which makes the turrets kinda useless.
Also check the "traits" tab, traits can vastly alter a build in many interesting ways.
