Disorganized charges are the bane of Tau. You outclass them for the most part and should be able to stop his shooting, and kill his units over time with grinding combats. So the DS idea really isn't a bad one at all. Just gotta commit whole hog to it.

Am I reading the new FaQ incorrectly. i thought we could no longer DS our flyers. On another note - Mushkilla says he has no AA but two Ravagers are certainly okay at AA, no? I'm going to test a list this weekend
Fabius and Haemie HQs
3 CSM squads in rhinos with havocs (cheap razor)
Big Cultists squad
Grots in Raider
Wracks in venom
Voidraven
2 'Drakes

So three flyers, 3 rhinos w/havocas, 2 skimmers and five troops at 1850. Two of my squads are fearless.

2 ravagers A.Air, assuming you have lances will hit with 1. Then you need to roll a 5 to penetrate an AV12 and then you need for your oponent not to make his jink save. And even then a penetrate is not so dangerush posibly.

1/6*2/6*4/6 = 8/216

8/216 /8 = 1 in 27 chance of doing anything per lance, so that would mean you need to shoot with them 4,5 turns before you where "garanteed to do something". Asuming you do something halfway (50%) then that mean that you need to shoot for 3 turns with 6 darklances before you get a penetrating roll that is not saved and even then you might only stun it. Is my math correct?

Yeah sounds it... could be a good way of catching multiple crisis suits though as my opponent regularly runs these as individuals whilst keeping them together behind cover

So then if I'm not mistaken the Voidraven can skyfire (so better at AA) and now can no longer DS so it will fly in from reserves ( new FaQ eliminates Aerial Assault) - does this make it better in many cases than the Ravager despite its higher cost? It is tougher as well - immune to bolters, etc. My new list is using one instead of a Ravager.

 felixcat wrote:

So then if I'm not mistaken the Voidraven can skyfire (so better at AA) and now can no longer DS so it will fly in from reserves ( new FaQ eliminates Aerial Assault) - does this make it better in many cases than the Ravager despite its higher cost? It is tougher as well - immune to bolters, etc. My new list is using one instead of a Ravager.

both are immune to bolters from the front. The voidraven is closed topped and a flyer so more surviable. The ravager gives you the alpha strike first turn. It also does more damage for about 70% the price.

But no skyfire on the Ravager. And no abti-infantry ( unless you use dissies)

Not sure if everyone would agree, but I bring a Voidraven, and a Razorwing jetfighter. The voidraven comes in strong as my anti armor (both for ground and air), and I bring my razorwing to be a jack of all trades. It has Shattershield missiles, and a splinter cannon, and I bring two dark lances. I usually play against a necron player who has 3 night scythes so the extra air support is nice, and the shattershield missiles do a really good job at desimating his big 20 man warrior squads.

The problem is that autocannons and plasma is a lot more popular in 6th, and these weapons which are meant to be anti-infantry become anti-tank as well vs DE.

That is why I have 10 vehicles, and have my 4 venoms and 3 raiders turn 1 just flat out to one of the flanks of the enemy. So that through jink saves (and a little luck), and the number of vehicles in the enemy's face, some will get through for a turn two assault into their line and the fun can begin. Hopefully the Ravager I have parked in the backfield can pop a vehicle or transport, and if there are any infantry present, than a large grouping of splinter cannon shots can put a chink in some of the opposing force.
I'm going to try two trueborn squads with splinter cannons in my wych list instead of having a squad of blasterborn. that way just more of a saturation of splinter fire.

Your strategy seems like it will either completely destroy your enemy or fail horribly, but that's the problem with DE isn't it... The life of a glass cannon. Imagine they got first turn and placed Battle Cannon templates right on top of your vehicles? You also don't get the Jink save if they get first turn so any long range firepower and your outa luck. That's why I I'm not so fond of DE. 6th edition's objective missions you'll have trouble with, and don't rely on splinter cannons to kill marines, you'll kill an avg. of less than 1 per.

72 splinter cannon shots in a turn can be pretty devastating, regardless of 3+. I haven't had any issues with my list yet. I deploy my venoms in front of my radiers so they get a cover save turn 1 before they move. But in the end it is a game of chance, I could have really good dice rolls, or really bad dice rolls. But I have been playing DE since the new codex came out, and I play 2 to 3 games a week. I make a lot less errors than I used to, and I win more than I lose.

 felixcat wrote:
But no skyfire on the Ravager. And no abti-infantry ( unless you use dissies)

the voidraven has no anti infantry either, excluding that silly bomb. You can buy additional missiles but it gets rough

The ravager gets jink without evading
the VR needs the flickerfield so costs more

Had a game against the new Tau codex if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

 Mushkilla wrote:
Had a game against the new Tau codex if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

you should have gone first!

guess you need LOS blocking terrain or something.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Had a game against the new Tau codex if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

Tau are a tough matchup for DE; what with all the ignore cover and ignore nightfighting we can do.

ON the upside, there seems to be only one vastly broken thing in your codex, and its a MC, so you should be able to toast it easy enough

 Exergy wrote:

you should have gone first!

guess you need LOS blocking terrain or something.

Hehe, tell me about it!

As for LoS, the white ruins things were, but infiltrate got around most of that.

Just read the Batrep from Mushkilla, I'm now frightened as many people play tau at my club!!!

Tau have always been a hard match considering their basic rifle may as well be a lascanon to our units.

 TechmarineNic wrote:
Just read the Batrep from Mushkilla, I'm now frightened as many people play tau at my club!!!

Don't worry! As Dark Eldar we adapt. Besides I have never had a good record against Tau!

Im actually afraid what to do against them.... I think the best I can do is just do a suicide rush against them... Try and close the distance between us.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Im actually afraid what to do against them.... I think the best I can do is just do a suicide rush against them... Try and close the distance between us.

I ran a wych cult army at 750 points, got tabled turn two, but the real damage was done by the fire warriors, rather than the broadside or riptide. Was bad dice rolls and pinning tests, but it was still a good game, and a learning curve and a half, jeez it was funny watching everything in my army getting pinned by their wrecked/exploded raider.

Edit; incidentally, I was all of four inches of the gun line before this happened. Massed poison might work though, especially on the riptide.

The best thing I've found for Tau is Dinsintegrator cannons, and lots of them!

Razorwings and Raiders soon make mince meat of them. Missile the Fire Warriors to reduce total number of shots (they usually flee for a turn before rallying, at which point your re-rollable splinter rifles have ganged up on the nearby crisis suits).

Remember that a Razorwing with 2 DC's gives you 6 AP2 shots from one model per turn. It's not all that hard to keep away from XV88's either.

An old tactic I used was to infiltrate mandrakes to tie up the back line before pouncing on the front. Works a treat

I feel against tau... We DE players may have to invest in flicker fields . Since jinx saves are a bit useless against tau, also night fields do wonders .

Had a slightly more successful rematch against the Tau if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR22: The Black Buzzards VS Tau (Rematch) - 1500pts

I have play against Tau quite a lot with my DE and generally have been beaten badly by them.
They are the paper to DE's rock.

Good match man

sLeEpYrOcK wrote:
Good match man

Thanks.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Had a slightly more successful rematch against the Tau if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR22: The Black Buzzards VS Tau (Rematch) - 1500pts

Good win! One problem I would say your opponent had in his second round against you was poor target priority and focus - particularly with Tau and the heavier emphasis on Markerlights with the new Codex, he really needed to have focused his markerlights and firepower better. I'm also not sure if he still thinks markerlights have the restriction against buffing other markerlights from the other codex, or if he simply wanted to save the markerlights for use by firepower units as much as possible - but, he can use markerlight counters to buff markerlight shots from another unit. There were a couple of moments where he got one markerlight hit with one unit, and then just shot the marker drones without using the marker counter to buff their shooting - BS2 isn't that great for building markerlights, unfortunately.

Still, a good win!

Remember the battle report descriptions do not always have the correct order of events (they are made from notes and phone pictures taken during the game), a lot of the time he was shooting first with the marker drones.

But agreed he could have abused cascading markerlights more.

How many units did he have that could lay down a marker light? First you shoot one unit to lay down one or two markerlights, then unit two eat those 1 to 2 markerlights to add more and then unit number 3 lett rip and remove the marker lights? That does not sound like too use of markerlight's vs DE.

Even in this particular matchup the reavers Cost around 265 points but they are hardly a deathstar, even with the bladewane attack. If the tau where up against a landraider caskading markerlights might make more sence, but vs flimsy space elves not so mutch?

Mushkilla wrote:Remember the battle report descriptions do not always have the correct order of events (they are made from notes and phone pictures taken during the game), a lot of the time he was shooting first with the marker drones.

But agreed he could have abused cascading markerlights more.

That's true, and point taken! Still, I did like the use of Marker Drones - he used them the way I imagined, using JSJ to keep them alive and safe. Still, BS2 seems to be a strong hindrance now that they've lost their twin-linking (but they're uber-cheap now, so its a wash at best, I'd say).

Niiai wrote:How many units did he have that could lay down a marker light? First you shoot one unit to lay down one or two markerlights, then unit two eat those 1 to 2 markerlights to add more and then unit number 3 lett rip and remove the marker lights? That does not sound like too use of markerlight's vs DE.

Even in this particular matchup the reavers Cost around 265 points but they are hardly a deathstar, even with the bladewane attack. If the tau where up against a landraider caskading markerlights might make more sence, but vs flimsy space elves not so mutch?

You wouldn't use cascading markerlights on a Land Raider as much as you would a unit like Reavers. Between the need to drop their cover save, and buff high BS, you're better off building a series of cascading markerlights to constantly buff attacks as you use each unit to focus down the Reavers. With the turbo-boost speed, the cover-save buff you really need to focus down Reavers and drop them or get them to fall back - otherwise they're all over you. And as Tau, that's not a good thing. So you're always needing at least 2 markerlight hits to remove their cover save. Add in the (almost required) benefit of boosting BS in order to maximize firepower, and the more markerlight hits you can get and cascade, the more damage you can do.

Something like a Land Raider will be almost exclusively targeted by a Railhead, at range; closer, you'd drop marker hits on it to buff a Fusion Blaster (off of a Stealth Suit team, Crisis Team, or whatever other delivery system). In that case, you're not cascading as much as dumping whatever marker unit you have on the Land Raider so your AT can kill it (And Longstrike doesn't even need that, unless the Land Raider has cover).

GhostRecon wrote:
That's true, and point taken! Still, I did like the use of Marker Drones - he used them the way I imagined, using JSJ to keep them alive and safe. Still, BS2 seems to be a strong hindrance now that they've lost their twin-linking (but they're uber-cheap now, so its a wash at best, I'd say).

Even at BS2 I would take them over pathfinders, relentless, JSJ, T4 and a 4+ save make them well worth it. That being said I think the squads need to be a bit bigger. The great thing with jump shoot jump is it really draws your opponent in as they will have a hard time taking the drones out at range (unlike pathfinders). Also at BS2 snapfiring them at BS1 for whatever reason is less of a problem as you have probably taken more to compensate fore their poor BS in the first place. Pathfinders are going to be firing at BS1 most of the time anyway as they will probably being going to ground more often that not. At least that's how I see it.

Well I will be playing tau soon... So far it sounds like it might be rough, I will have to let you guys know how it goes .

Another game against Tau if anyone is interested (riptides this time):

BR23: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mech/Riptide - 1500pts

You have good Battle reports! Reavers seem to be a great option against tau.

New Dark Eldar FAQ:

-Leliths attacks only ignore saves in CC.
-Hits caused by bladevanes are not longer allocated randomly. Determine the wounds from the end position of the jetbikes (finally).

 Mushkilla wrote:
New Dark Eldar FAQ:

-Leliths attacks only ignore saves in CC.
-Hits caused by bladevanes are not longer allocated randomly. Determine the wounds from the end position of the jetbikes (finally).

Makes things more simple at least.

Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

Hi all, - Another returning DE player here.

I've not played a game in sixth yet, but have been challenged to a game vs BA's @1500 pts.

Generally my 5th ed experience was okay with my wytch heavy Dark Eldar; I won a fair few, but got brutalised if my first two turns went to pot.

Just after some basic pointers really, having rabidly read most of the comments here, it looks all is not lost thankfully.

I generally run three Venoms, three Raiders, 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing with some Reaver support.

Any general advice for me would be awesome.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

The justicar challenged the Archon, but the Archon refused. The grey knights successfully activated their force weapons, they manage to inflict three wounds, which the Archon saves with his shadow-field. The grotesque fought back killing three grey knights. The grey knights hold.

If the Archon refused he would not be fighting, nor could any wound be put onto him, that would have meant 3 dead grots and a morale check which means you would have either got away or got run down,

MarkyMark wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:
Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

The justicar challenged the Archon, but the Archon refused. The grey knights successfully activated their force weapons, they manage to inflict three wounds, which the Archon saves with his shadow-field. The grotesque fought back killing three grey knights. The grey knights hold.

If the Archon refused he would not be fighting, nor could any wound be put onto him, that would have meant 3 dead grots and a morale check which means you would have either got away or got run down,

Actually, if you read the rules for challanges, it states it cannot strike blows, and the unit doesn't benefit from the models leadership, it can still get hit and take saves.

I used to play against BA a lot with my DE... The only real threat was the storm raven and Baal predator... Other than that, i would treat them as just basic marines.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

nice list, I would have dropped the dark lances on the warriors for splinter cannons, with that 45 points you could have had another grotesque with a liquifier. On the archon i would have gone with a blaster although I am not sure where i would have gotten the points for it

MarkyMark wrote:
nor could any wound be put onto him

Where in the rule book does it say wounds can't be allocated on a model that refused a challenge? Also if that were the case any model that refused a challenge would effectively become invincible as your opponent would not be able to wound him.

 Exergy wrote:
nice list, I would have dropped the dark lances on the warriors for splinter cannons, with that 45 points you could have had another grotesque with a liquifier. On the archon i would have gone with a blaster although I am not sure where i would have gotten the points for it

Yeah I'm not sold on the Dark Lances, taking the opportunity to test stuff though (as smaller games take less time). I might drop them out but I'd be really low on ranged AT (not that it did much) but even ineffective ranged AT gives your opponent something to think about.

 Mushkilla wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
That's true, and point taken! Still, I did like the use of Marker Drones - he used them the way I imagined, using JSJ to keep them alive and safe. Still, BS2 seems to be a strong hindrance now that they've lost their twin-linking (but they're uber-cheap now, so its a wash at best, I'd say).

Even at BS2 I would take them over pathfinders, relentless, JSJ, T4 and a 4+ save make them well worth it. That being said I think the squads need to be a bit bigger. The great thing with jump shoot jump is it really draws your opponent in as they will have a hard time taking the drones out at range (unlike pathfinders). Also at BS2 snapfiring them at BS1 for whatever reason is less of a problem as you have probably taken more to compensate fore their poor BS in the first place. Pathfinders are going to be firing at BS1 most of the time anyway as they will probably being going to ground more often that not. At least that's how I see it.

Well they can take a crisis commander with drone controller and the whole unit of marker drones hits at bs5 which is pretty sick.

BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

 Red Corsair wrote:
BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

Nope, being a monstrous creature doesn't make you fearless any more, the same way chaos daemons MCs are not fearless either.

Don't forget about reavers being able to turbo boost every turn and do there little slash or whatever its called. Also d cannons ap2 is prettys awesome.

 Mushkilla wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
nor could any wound be put onto him

Where in the rule book does it say wounds can't be allocated on a model that refused a challenge? Also if that were the case any model that refused a challenge would effectively become invincible as your opponent would not be able to wound him.

 Exergy wrote:
nice list, I would have dropped the dark lances on the warriors for splinter cannons, with that 45 points you could have had another grotesque with a liquifier. On the archon i would have gone with a blaster although I am not sure where i would have gotten the points for it

Yeah I'm not sold on the Dark Lances, taking the opportunity to test stuff though (as smaller games take less time). I might drop them out but I'd be really low on ranged AT (not that it did much) but even ineffective ranged AT gives your opponent something to think about.

I did check the rules are I have been playing it wrong for ages!, I read it as the model gets put the back of the unit (so wounds cannot be put onto him FIRST as not in btb), but reading it again it is more of a fluff thing (sulking in the back of the units or some such words they use) so sorry you are correct.

MC's not being fearless does suck. Had a game against Tau this weekend, and I was rolling HORRIBLY. The final nail in the coffin was after three rounds of combat my talos couldn't put a single wound on some Crisis suits. Finally, the suits wounded the talos, I failed the morale check, and the suits managed to run the talos down.

Not cool.

Goresaw wrote:
MC's not being fearless does suck. Had a game against Tau this weekend, and I was rolling HORRIBLY. The final nail in the coffin was after three rounds of combat my talos couldn't put a single wound on some Crisis suits. Finally, the suits wounded the talos, I failed the morale check, and the suits managed to run the talos down.

Not cool.

talos are fearless i believe.

Goresaw wrote:
MC's not being fearless does suck. Had a game against Tau this weekend, and I was rolling HORRIBLY. The final nail in the coffin was after three rounds of combat my talos couldn't put a single wound on some Crisis suits. Finally, the suits wounded the talos, I failed the morale check, and the suits managed to run the talos down.

Not cool.

Ehm yeah, the Talos actually is Fearless. So now you'll be even more sorry...

Wouldn't have mattered. I had a beast pack fail a 4 inch charge, eldrad fail to kill a crisis commander who made 4 invul saves against ID wounds and then managed to outrun the old man, and of course, Baron failing his first shadowfield save on a STR 6 submunition from a hammerhead.

Really wasn't my day.

All in all though, if you kill the Tau's markerlights, they're very manageable. Their BS of three is pretty bad.

I also learned always take some form of CC units against Tau, otherwise they'll spend the whole game Jump-Shoot-Jumping and if you're playing with LoS blocking terrain, you're in a lot of trouble.

Goresaw wrote:
Wouldn't have mattered. I had a beast pack fail a 4 inch charge, eldrad fail to kill a crisis commander who made 4 invul saves against ID wounds and then managed to outrun the old man, and of course, Baron failing his first shadowfield save on a STR 6 submunition from a hammerhead.

Really wasn't my day.

I also learned always take some form of CC units against Tau, otherwise they'll spend the whole game Jump-Shoot-Jumping and if you're playing with LoS blocking terrain, you're in a lot of trouble.

Those days happen to us all, but occasionally you get the other side of it and feel awesome.
It is true that eventually you will need to CC but remember that against tau, most things are effective CC.

What unit would you guys use for manning the ADL? My group isn't using allies right now (which, I'm fine with... just so I see less IG), so Fire Dragons are out of the question.

I was thinking of a small unit of Incubi. The Klaivex is BS5 for some reason and they are a kinda scary unit for Terminators/MEQ to land near if they try to deepstrike or drop pod. They wouldn't have many bodies, but I think it could work.

I was also thinking of a unit of wracks with 2 Haemies. One of the Haemies would deposit his pain tokens into my beast unit so they are fearless.

The rest of my army is about what you'd expect. Baron, Venoms, one large beast unit, heat lance reavers, ravagers, razorwing.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 Red Viper wrote:
What unit would you guys use for manning the ADL? My group isn't using allies right now (which, I'm fine with... just so I see less IG), so Fire Dragons are out of the question.

I was thinking of a small unit of Incubi. The Klaivex is BS5 for some reason and they are a kinda scary unit for Terminators/MEQ to land near if they try to deepstrike or drop pod. They wouldn't have many bodies, but I think it could work.

I was also thinking of a unit of wracks with 2 Haemies. One of the Haemies would deposit his pain tokens into my beast unit so they are fearless.

The rest of my army is about what you'd expect. Baron, Venoms, one large beast unit, heat lance reavers, ravagers, razorwing.

Thanks for any suggestions.

I'm using the twinlinked quadgun on the ADL, so BS4 will usually suffice. I use either 10 warriors with a single splinter cannon or 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons. I usually buy them a transport as well: a raider to provide cover for the rest of my skimmers or a venom for extra firepower. These deploy separately.

 Red Viper wrote:

I was thinking of a small unit of Incubi. The Klaivex is BS5 for some reason and they are a kinda scary unit for Terminators/MEQ to land near if they try to deepstrike or drop pod. They wouldn't have many bodies, but I think it could work.

Incubi would be terrible, even a 3 man unit with a klaivex would cost 81 points and an elite slot. All you would get would be 3 fairly easily killed wounds.
You could perhaps bring a haemi ancient, still BS5, still 3 wounds but at T4. He could be your warlord and he could sit with a squad. Also cover + FNP + T4 he would be much more survivable. If you really want to make an uber quad gun manning squad take mandrakes(stealth being key) and the haemi's pain token gives you a bunch of str 4 shots to add on(maybe if you see AV10 they will do something)

 Red Viper wrote:


I was also thinking of a unit of wracks with 2 Haemies. One of the Haemies would deposit his pain tokens into my beast unit so they are fearless.

takes too many movements to get all the pain tokens onto the beasts. When an IC leaves a unit, pain tokens are split as close to evenly as possible. So you start 1 hamei(A) with the beasts, one(B) with the wracks. First turn they switch places, Haemi(A) leaves his pain token with the beasts. Haemi(B) can only take 1 pain token with him to the beasts. Turn 2 hamei B returns to the beasts with the last pain token, but that is turn 2 already.
It also costs 130 points. A cronos can get you pain tokens pretty fast for 100 pts.

Thanks for the input Mandor and Exergy.

 Exergy wrote:

Incubi would be terrible, even a 3 man unit with a klaivex would cost 81 points and an elite slot. All you would get would be 3 fairly easily killed wounds.

You could perhaps bring a haemi ancient, still BS5, still 3 wounds but at T4. He could be your warlord and he could sit with a squad. Also cover + FNP + T4 he would be much more survivable. If you really want to make an uber quad gun manning squad take mandrakes(stealth being key) and the haemi's pain token gives you a bunch of str 4 shots to add on(maybe if you see AV10 they will do something)

takes too many movements to get all the pain tokens onto the beasts. When an IC leaves a unit, pain tokens are split as close to evenly as possible. So you start 1 hamei(A) with the beasts, one(B) with the wracks. First turn they switch places, Haemi(A) leaves his pain token with the beasts. Haemi(B) can only take 1 pain token with him to the beasts. Turn 2 hamei B returns to the beasts with the last pain token, but that is turn 2 already.
It also costs 130 points. A cronos can get you pain tokens pretty fast for 100 pts.

Yeah, I wasn't sold on the incubi... really they are just one of my favorite units and I wanted to work them in. I have one elite spot open, so that's not much of an issue. Mandrakes are surprisingly a decent option. Thanks for suggesting them. It would be fun to finally use them also.

I forgot that they had to split the tokens as evenly as possible, that makes the logistics too complicated. Cronos could be a decent option, but heavy slots are tough to cut from.

Mandor wrote:I'm using the twinlinked quadgun on the ADL, so BS4 will usually suffice. I use either 10 warriors with a single splinter cannon or 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons. I usually buy them a transport as well: a raider to provide cover for the rest of my skimmers or a venom for extra firepower. These deploy separately.

I probably wouldn't put splintercannons on my units, but a unit of warriors might do the trick. Truborn with some Dark Lances sprinkled in might be doable also.

Tb with dl's are awful, too expensive and too squishy. Give them blasters and keep them moving

 Mushkilla wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

Nope, being a monstrous creature doesn't make you fearless any more, the same way chaos daemons MCs are not fearless either.

Interesting I had not realized that, so hard sometimes keeping rules straight after playing since 2nd edition lol. Makes the riptides much less scary actually. Now dropping any drones they may bring is a huge liability to him. I assume not many players will take the drones though.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

Nope, being a monstrous creature doesn't make you fearless any more, the same way chaos daemons MCs are not fearless either.

Interesting I had not realized that, so hard sometimes keeping rules straight after playing since 2nd edition lol. Makes the riptides much less scary actually. Now dropping any drones they may bring is a huge liability to him. I assume not many players will take the drones though.

actually i remember in 5th seeing that the Talos was fearless and was also an MC which made him fearless(double fearless!). Thought it was an oversight but apparently they had a plan in place to make MCs not fearless

 Red Corsair wrote:
so hard sometimes keeping rules straight after playing since 2nd edition lol.

Tell me about it!

So I'm thinking about DE for my next army, and rather than starting a whole new thread I guess I'll post my questions here:

1. Ravagers or one of the two Fliers? I'd like to take both, but since they are both HS in smaller point games I'd have to choose between the two.

2. Is there any way to make the Talos/Cronos MCs useful? I love the models, but everyone says don't bother (and again, they take up a HS slot).

3. With the changes to blast weapons (hits vehicles at full strength now if any part covers it), is taking the Shredder either for Warriors or Trueborn actually viable now?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So I'm thinking about DE for my next army, and rather than starting a whole new thread
It's a fine army - fast, maneuverable, effectively able to redeploy at will, with a lot of nasty tricks and toys - we don't care what your armour or toughness is, it's all just a target (Generally hitting on a 3+, wounding on a 4+ (or 2+ with lances), glancing on a 2-4, and a 5+ is always a pen.
I guess I'll post my questions here:

1. Ravagers or one of the two Fliers? I'd like to take both, but since they are both HS in smaller point games I'd have to choose between the two.
No, no you don't!
3 Ravagers with shields is 345pts (115 each), (Kitted Talos are the same for what it's worth) and a Razorwing with Shields is 155, so you can happily have 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing for 385pts, so can feasibly, nay easily do it at anything 750pts+.
With most troops only running you 120-200pts, including transports, we're cheap. (On a side note, god I had a shock when I started CSM.)

2. Is there any way to make the Talos MCs useful? I love the models, but everyone says don't bother (and again, they take up a HS slot).
I love Talos. I really do. Though 1 is kind of pants and will get shot up pretty fast, 2 is great, and what I take by default over Raiders - it's a force modifier.
While people focus on my 2 Talos, they're ignoring the rest of my Raiders bringing my forces into their face. Generally one survives to rape some face, but the big thing is it lets the rest of my army get where it needs to unhindered.
Or while they're ignoring my Talos, and focusing on some of my Raiders bearing down on them, meaning my Talos make it into contact to do their dark work.

3. With the changes to blast weapons (hits vehicles at full strength now if any part covers it), is taking the Shredder either for Warriors or Trueborn actually viable now?
hahahaha, no. No they are not. They look alright on paper - Assault 1, Str6, small blast. But it's AP-, but frankly, you can take Plasma and Haywire Grenades anyway, which give a Str4 blast, and S2, Haywire blast respectively.

The key with Dark Eldar, in my opinion, is multiple units in your opponents face, denying them the ability to enact proper target priority - everything is big, scary and in their face, the whole army is converging on 1-3 targets with overwhelming firepower and they'll have too many targets to know what to do about it.

Yeah, I generally like my talos too. If they survive to get into CC, I much prefer them to ravagers. I replaced 2 of my ravagers for the talos because I was sick and tired of them doing absolutely nothing all game. Miss, miss, glance, fail to pen, fail to pen, cover save... Nothing.

At least you know, if the talos lives, it will wreck face. Even in games where your opponent has high maneuverability, most will eventually get sloppy and let the talos get to close.

And they are a great board control unit. Being able to force out into midfield and push opponents back away from objectives is a fantastic ability. No one is going to run away from a venom or a raider full of kabalites. Push 2 talos in cover, and you'll see squads heading the other way.

However, don't expect miracles from Talos. They aren't immune to small arms fire, and you will lose them ridiculously fast to plasma and melta fire. You have to use them carefully. These guys aren't dreadknights or TH/SS termis.

Oh, and ALWAYS take the chain flails. Rolling a 1 for your attacks SUCKS.

Seems like the Talos is one of the few things that is worth taking a WWP especially for.

And what about the Chronos? Pain Tokens for all?

 Ovion wrote:
(On a side note, god I had a shock when I started CSM.)

Gathering necrons on the side(I know, boo necrons boo, right?), and I had that same reaction... And to top it off, necrons are cheap, price-wise... And gameplay-wise as some might say!

And I disagree, Goresaw, TL SC + TL liquifier Talos is better than some silly chain flails! You may do less attacks in assault, but the liquifier with rerolled to-wounds should've cover that loss quite well, as well as reducing potential overwatch that could hurt your Talos, and not only that, you've saved 5 points!

I play with friends alot... And I tried out 2 talos and a cronos... As well as 2 ravagers and razorwing.... The talo and cronos wrecked face!

Goes good with a coven army

Baronyu wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
(On a side note, god I had a shock when I started CSM.)

Gathering necrons on the side(I know, boo necrons boo, right?), and I had that same reaction... And to top it off, necrons are cheap, price-wise... And gameplay-wise as some might say!

And I disagree, Goresaw, TL SC + TL liquifier Talos is better than some silly chain flails! You may do less attacks in assault, but the liquifier with rerolled to-wounds should've cover that loss quite well, as well as reducing potential overwatch that could hurt your Talos, and not only that, you've saved 5 points!

Personally I go for TL Haywire + TL Liquifier - I like my TAC goodness, and they can still throw out hurt on most anything from a distance. Then they get in close, and things get exciting.

I came into a medium sized Necron Force over christmas, but I was already deadened to the costs thanks to CSM at that point.

Good fun though - 'crons are crazy resilient.
And I mean, having played Dark Eldar since 2000ish, with only a brief dabble in oldcrons around 2002/2003 (which I frankly remember little about), I'm used to everything being fast and squishy. Then coming into Tau, I was astounded at the difference having an Armour Value higher than 11 made!
Then CSM / Crons - Holy crap, 3+ Saves and Ressurection Protocols!?!? goddamn.

Dalek-crons?! Now that is just amazing... Even the spruecrons pale in comparison!

And same here, I'm always amazed, and confused, by necrons' S4 T4 or just the fact that they have an armour save worth caring about! "What do you mean they can stay alive without hiding in a barely more durable skimmer? That's crazy talk!! ... Wait! Their skimmers are AV13?! Have I gone mad?!" But yet, I still remember the early days of DE when I fielded my 1st ravager and felt so proud of its AV11...

But let's not derail this thread too far...

On the topic of Talos, at one point, I did want to run them with TL-Haywire, but seeing that I have to pay 5 points for that, as well as that I could only at best get another glance from it, I figured the free TL-SC might be more point-efficient, but of course, it all depends on what you need for your list, I guess.

And this thread is tempting me to turn my entire HS slots into coven engines...! Gah!! Now if someone would tell me the winning lottery ticket numbers for tomorrow, I'd be so grateful!

Baronyu wrote:
Dalek-crons?! Now that is just amazing... Even the spruecrons pale in comparison!

And same here, I'm always amazed, and confused, by necrons' S4 T4 or just the fact that they have an armour save worth caring about! "What do you mean they can stay alive without hiding in a barely more durable skimmer? That's crazy talk!! ... Wait! Their skimmers are AV13?! Have I gone mad?!" But yet, I still remember the early days of DE when I fielded my 1st ravager and felt so proud of its AV11...

But let's not derail this thread too far...

On the topic of Talos, at one point, I did want to run them with TL-Haywire, but seeing that I have to pay 5 points for that, as well as that I could only at best get another glance from it, I figured the free TL-SC might be more point-efficient, but of course, it all depends on what you need for your list, I guess.

And this thread is tempting me to turn my entire HS slots into coven engines...! Gah!! Now if someone would tell me the winning lottery ticket numbers for tomorrow, I'd be so grateful!

A save.. outside of cover? What is this madness!
And thankyou - though like so much of my stuff, I really need to get round to finishing painting the buggers....

As for my DE these days, my force is primarily a Coven.
2-3 Raiders of Grotesques and Haems, with a pair of liquifiers and venom blades, 2-3 Raiders of Wracks - liquifiers and venom blades, 2-3 Venoms of Wracks w/ a Hex Rifle, 2 Talos (TL Liquifier, TL HWB) and a Razorwing.
Served me well so far. It's all a balance of making nothing a bigger threat than anything else, but everything a big enough threat it needs to be dealt with at once.

And yeah - I'm known as the man with a Dark Eldar Army that has no Dark Eldar in it.
My Haemonculi and Grotesques are converted out of Dryad kits, my Wracks out of Plague Monks, my Talos / Chronos all Scratch Built, and I shudder to think what it would have cost new. (Upwards of £600...)
Only the vehicles are actually DE in my coven, and even then, only 2 (1 venom and the Razorwing) are the new versions. xD
I mean, I have another 5-7000pts of not coven stuff as well (most of it's even DE models, both new and old... (mostly old)), but it's just not as fun.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Seems like the Talos is one of the few things that is worth taking a WWP especially for.

And what about the Chronos? Pain Tokens for all?

With my 2000+ pt all-coven lists i run three Taloi, each with a Cronos buddy tagging along with them.

Not generally the MOST effective use of 6 HS slots, but the firepower they can lay down is impressive, and they look damn cool...

I really need to get around to painting them though...

 Ascalam wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Seems like the Talos is one of the few things that is worth taking a WWP especially for.

And what about the Chronos? Pain Tokens for all?

With my 2000+ pt all-coven lists i run three Taloi, each with a Cronos buddy tagging along with them.

Not generally the MOST effective use of 6 HS slots, but the firepower they can lay down is impressive, and they look damn cool...

I really need to get around to painting them though...

would you mind posting your list? I was just coming up with a 2k list that was nothing but Hemonculi, Wracks in raiders, and Talos/Cronos. Tried to get every 9-man wrack unit to have one Haemonculi but it was getting expensive.

My lists vary a bit.

Here's a rough outline of my last one, from memory.

HQ - Haemonculus - no wargear

HQ - ditto, sometimes Urien because he's cool.

HS - 3 taloi

HS- 3 Cronoi

Troops - 3 man squads of wracks in raiders (5 with liquifier if points spare) - up to 6

Troops - 3 -5 man squads of wracks in venoms, pos with liquifier- up to 6

You can get a LOT of firepower from 3 wrack units taking rides. IRRC i took 4 with raider, 4 in venoms last time.

I don't generally bother trying to get wracks into CC, as they aren't that hot at it. If i want to down a MC i use multiple units, plus the firepower from their venoms or raiders. No single unit is all that expensive if i lose it, and it forces the enemy to split fire, which means that I get longer to fire back..

You'd be surprised at how resilient a 3 man wrack unit can be I'll try to find one of my old lists to post up later, when i can get back to my main computer,

3 Wracks with a Hex Rifle make great objective holders too.
Pretty resilient with cover + fnp, but the big one is - it's basically a 3 man squad with 1 36" range splinter rifle in your opponents eyes, meaning it gets ignored, picking off the odd troops here and there, while ensuring you hold the objective.

Also - I find Wracks in CC to be pretty good actually.
30+ Poisoned 4+ Poisoned attacks with re-rolls against T3 (and T4 with furious charge), after putting 2 APD6 flamers into a unit is nothing to sniff at, and can happily put down hordes and monsters alike.

True enough. They're ok, just not great enough for me to want to run them into the teeth of anyone else's assault unit. They're fine for dropping a small unit that relies on its T and/or cover saves, like Nob Bikers

A full unit of 10 can put some hurt down. I don't run mine as full units though. My little dinky units get ignored right up until several of them cruise up to gank a Tervigon or whatever.

A full unit in a raider tends to get shot at a lot more, and is a good deal less cheap/throwaway when it dies (and too damn fragile to survive such attention...)

Wracks make good grot squads but I am finding them less and less useful next to kabalites.

It's fun to try out a coven army... But everyone In awhile you can't just resist to play with a wyche cult / Kabal again.

Thats just it though, I find that warriors compliment the coven elites with their shooting more then wracks which kinda stinks if you want to go pure coven for theme :/

No. Monstrous Creatures are not fearless by default. Only a Monstrous Creature wit hthe Fearless rule is Fearless.

Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

 SkaredCast wrote:
Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

The abyssal staff uses leadership to cause wounds but instant death still uses toughness meaning Urien and the grots can't be doubled out from the abyssal staffs. That alone makes this a different game.

RP tokens are removed if the unit is swept meaning the lord should have stayed down.

Your wracks once fearless can no longer go to ground.

Aside from these few things great game as always and thanks for sharing!

 Red Corsair wrote:

 SkaredCast wrote:
Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

The abyssal staff uses leadership to cause wounds but instant death still uses toughness meaning Urien and the grots can't be doubled out from the abyssal staffs. That alone makes this a different game.

RP tokens are removed if the unit is swept meaning the lord should have stayed down.

Your wracks once fearless can no longer go to ground.

Aside from these few things great game as always and thanks for sharing!

Lords have Everliving, meaning they get to get up, pretty much regardless.

On a personal note - It's pronounced Kuhv-en, not Koh-ven, Tah-loss, not Tay-loss

In regards to the list - I'd have taken the 2-3 Haemonculi over Urien. (I'd also have been running 2 squads of Grotesques in Raiders, and 2 10man +2-3 3man Wrack squads but that's me, I tend to run a more 'pure' coven list).

You also seem to have spread your fire out quite a bit, with not much focus - for example, if you'd have focused on the stalker OR the barge, they'd each be down 2 Hull Points, instead of 1. I find focusing all your fire on each target till it's out of commission is the bet plan, rather than chipping at several units that can still come up and hurt you / deny / etc.

You realised splitting it was a bad idea, and I concur, slamming your army into the flank would have reduced the effectiveness of his army to hurt you.

It's also nice to see a coven using actual models (how much must that have set you back!), makes for an interesting change.

Just forget assaulting ANYTHING at all EVER, 6th ed has seen to the death of melee. Build a pew pew list and hope they dont have a Manticore

 Ovion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 SkaredCast wrote:
Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

The abyssal staff uses leadership to cause wounds but instant death still uses toughness meaning Urien and the grots can't be doubled out from the abyssal staffs. That alone makes this a different game.

RP tokens are removed if the unit is swept meaning the lord should have stayed down.

Your wracks once fearless can no longer go to ground.

Aside from these few things great game as always and thanks for sharing!

Lords have Everliving, meaning they get to get up, pretty much regardless.

On a personal note - It's pronounced Kuhv-en, not Koh-ven, Tah-loss, not Tay-loss

In regards to the list - I'd have taken the 2-3 Haemonculi over Urien. (I'd also have been running 2 squads of Grotesques in Raiders, and 2 10man +2-3 3man Wrack squads but that's me, I tend to run a more 'pure' coven list).

You also seem to have spread your fire out quite a bit, with not much focus - for example, if you'd have focused on the stalker OR the barge, they'd each be down 2 Hull Points, instead of 1. I find focusing all your fire on each target till it's out of commission is the bet plan, rather than chipping at several units that can still come up and hurt you / deny / etc.

You realised splitting it was a bad idea, and I concur, slamming your army into the flank would have reduced the effectiveness of his army to hurt you.

It's also nice to see a coven using actual models (how much must that have set you back!), makes for an interesting change.

Not true as sweeping a unit literally doesn't allow any tokens to be placed.

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Just forget assaulting ANYTHING at all EVER, 6th ed has seen to the death of melee. Build a pew pew list and hope they dont have a Manticore

Well thats just plain not true.

Dark eldar with eldar allies can make some pretty potent close combat based armies. And Im hoping that is upheld and perhaps even improved with the new eldar codex.

Beast Packs, Grotesques, large wych squads all have places in 6th edition.

Feel dumb for asking this but what's the difference between Coven list and Cult list?

I'm assuming Cult is mostly wyches and warriors, Coven is mostly Haemonculus related creations?

Warriors form kabals, wyches cults and wracks/haemis etc are coven.

Had a game against a Tau list that could put out 52 S7 twinlinked shots and loaded to the brim with ignore cover. Battle report bellow:

BR25: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mass Broadsides - 1500pts

So new Eldar are out. Looks like their psychic powers just target a friendly unit now, so that's a subtle buff to their allies.

What units do you think are worth including as an ally force?

I was looking at using some wraithguard and maybe a wraithseer with a webway portal to drop some pain on the enemy at a key location. Short range of the wraithcannons isnt such a big deal then.

Pretty sure allies can't use a WWP.

Haven't had a chance to look at the Eldar book yet. Do they have WWP as an option?

Nope they dont have a wwp in the eldar book.

I havent seen anything to prevent the use of a wwp for allies though.

The big buff is that unless specified as "Friendly units from Codex: Eldar" the buff can affect DE and Tau "Battle Brothers" as well (assuming it does not target the "psyker" only).

So.... Fortuned BeastPack... anyone...?

 Xeriapt wrote:
Nope they dont have a wwp in the eldar book.

I havent seen anything to prevent the use of a wwp for allies though.

DE FAQ

Q: Can units from allied detachment use a webway portal to enter play
from reserve? (p62)
A: No.

Bummer, must have missed that.

So the gains for DE seem to be:

-Better psychic support for buffing (not losing the anti-psy cheese that was RoW). Has anyone checked if you can use the +1 save power on Incubi to make them fleet terminators?

-Better troop options. Cheap guardians with rending shots for base-sitting with a support gun or durable Wraithguard to hold hot, contested objectives.

-Access to Wave Serpents and their cheesy ignore-cover shots.

-Access to S9 lances and large blasts via Fire Prism

-Access to cheap snipers via rangers

-Real outflanking melee specialists via Scorpions (or you can just use mandrakes as proxies as they look so much cooler!)

-Moderately-priced CC beast in the Avatar. Way better than a Talos and faster too.

 Sephyr wrote:
-Better psychic support for buffing (not losing the anti-psy cheese that was RoW). Has anyone checked if you can use the +1 save power on Incubi to make them fleet terminators?

Possible, but it requires a Spiritseer joining Incubi, which might be ... interesting, as he cannot ride in our transports.

 Sephyr wrote:
-Access to Wave Serpents and their cheesy ignore-cover shots.

A Waveserpent with twin-linked Scatter Laser, in turn twin-linking your Shuriken Cannon and Serpent Shield seems an awesome combo. Combine this with 12 Guardians for Battle Focus/Infantry-rending abuse or Wraithguard with guns or flamers and we get some low AP scoring offensive power.

 Sephyr wrote:
-Access to S9 lances and large blasts via Fire Prism

I'd rather go for the Nightspinner, because it provides us something we generally lack: a barrage large blast.

I might consider getting a farseer and rangers for my DE as allies now.

For games over 1500, I'm going to include a Farseer with Divination and Runes of Fate. He's going in a min unit of DA (cheapest way to get a wave serpent) in a Wave Serpent. Then I'm going to try and fit in a unit of warwalkers with either dual scatter lasers or scatter laser/ shuriken cannon. I like the dual scatter lasers for the range. I don't like moving AV 10 inside of rapid fire ranges.

If the wave serpent does as well as I think it will, I may add another min DA squad inside of one.

Even if they die, it means my Ravagers and Venoms will not. It''ll be nice to have a real tank... "tank" some shots.

But having Guide and Prescience to toss around will be nice.

For my part, I'm trying out the following Eldar units with my current Venom builds:

Farseer w/ jetbike, spirit stone, mantle

3x windrider guardians for troops

Night Spinner w/ Holofield

Possibly also adding a Crimson Hunter at higher points to tag-team with my Voidraven. Wave Serpents look cool but a bit pricey right now, I may add some in future. Remember that a Farseer inside a transport doesn't have LoS to anybody but the unit he's with and the transport itself however! For this reason I think jetbike seers are far and away the best choice for DE allies.

 Loch wrote:

Wave Serpents look cool but a bit pricey right now, I may add some in future. Remember that a Farseer inside a transport doesn't have LoS to anybody but the unit he's with and the transport itself however! For this reason I think jetbike seers are far and away the best choice for DE allies.

Ugh. Forgot that.

Yeah, then Jetseer makes more sense.

I'd just like to report that the Night Spinner is indeed an amazing tank and every DE player needs to try one in their lists.

Looking at dumping the jetbikes for a Wave Serpent or two now.

 Loch wrote:
I'd just like to report that the Night Spinner is indeed an amazing tank and every DE player needs to try one in their lists.

Looking at dumping the jetbikes for a Wave Serpent or two now.

As an allied force, I'm considering:
- Spiritseer

- 5 Wraithguard in a Wave Serpent with twin-linked scatter laser and shuriken cannon
- 5 Wraithguard with D-scythes in a Wave Serpent with twin-linked scatter laser and shuriken cannon

- Night Spinner

Total: 815 pts

This gives me everything that a Dark Eldar force lacks in general:
1) Psychic powers;
2) Resilient troops;
3) Resilient transports;
4) STR10 instant death weapons;
5) Cover ignoring weapons;
6) A unit filled with flamers;
7) A lot of STR6-7 twin-linked shots;
8) A large blast barrage weapon.

It does get a bit pricy points-wise though.

That's an amazing combo right there, Mandor. Heavy on the points to be sure, but very good. So much so it almost makes the rest of the Dark Eldar force feel a bit redundant, in fant.

I've come to something very similar to your allied force as well Mandor, and I'm trying to fit it into a relatively standard DE Venoms + maybe raiders + ravagers. The two actually seem to complement each other really well -- DE gives a lot of anti-infantry and anti-MC fire, as well as some good anti-heavy armor, while the allied force gives you the stuff already listed.

Thinking about HQs for this force, Baron Sathonyx still stands out to me, as +1 to going first is really important when going against Tau (if you strike first, you can take out some Broadsides, if not, then you get blown away). However I'm having problems finding a unit to go with him. Hellions look underwhelming, and Beastpacks are a lot to spend on a unit that needs cover to deal with stuff. Are there any Eldar units that he could fit in that would work? I don't think Seer Councils really work right now, especially when you're taking DE main. Warp Spiders? Swooping Hawks?
I'm pretty new to looking at Dark Eldar and Eldar, so I may be totally off.

 Thariinye wrote:
I've come to something very similar to your allied force as well Mandor, and I'm trying to fit it into a relatively standard DE Venoms + maybe raiders + ravagers. The two actually seem to complement each other really well -- DE gives a lot of anti-infantry and anti-MC fire, as well as some good anti-heavy armor, while the allied force gives you the stuff already listed.

Thinking about HQs for this force, Baron Sathonyx still stands out to me, as +1 to going first is really important when going against Tau (if you strike first, you can take out some Broadsides, if not, then you get blown away). However I'm having problems finding a unit to go with him. Hellions look underwhelming, and Beastpacks are a lot to spend on a unit that needs cover to deal with stuff. Are there any Eldar units that he could fit in that would work? I don't think Seer Councils really work right now, especially when you're taking DE main. Warp Spiders? Swooping Hawks?
I'm pretty new to looking at Dark Eldar and Eldar, so I may be totally off.

I always keep my Baron with either a beastpack(even without cover a lot of 4++ saves) or with Reaver jetbikes. Now Baron cannot turbo boost, but he can hide behind BLOS terrain easily. I often detach him to let the reavers boost, and i either join him to another unit or hide him behind something. When the reavers come back he adds a lot of CC bunch to them.

I heard the Night spinner was faq'd to just have a small blast? if thats the case it is much worse.

The Baron's BeastPack is actualy a bargain. You get a lot of 4++ saves, a lot of attacks and they can very easily get a turn 2 charge which causes the most important thing to happen; it forces your opponent's hand when it comes to target priority.

Since I always run the Baron as my HQ with the BeastPack the "HQ tax" is mitigated since it's what I want. The only DE "troop tax" is Warriors with Splinter rifles & Splinter Cannon in a Raider with Splinter Racks and, that is an awesome unit.

Now if you main DE and want the Eldar allies, go Eldrad and JBikes because JBikes. And yo, listen up dawgs, throw in a Fire Prism, DE don't got AV12 and AP3 pie plates.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I heard the Night spinner was faq'd to just have a small blast? if thats the case it is much worse.

You are mistaken the Doomweaver (the Night Spinner gun) with the Shadow Weaver (Vaul's Wrath Support Battery). The latter one has a typo in the summary section and that's the one that's been corrected to small blast.

 Mandor wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I heard the Night spinner was faq'd to just have a small blast? if thats the case it is much worse.

You are mistaken the Doomweaver (the Night Spinner gun) with the Shadow Weaver (Vaul's Wrath Support Battery). The latter one has a typo in the summary section and that's the one that's been corrected to small blast.

Well I never claimed it was, i was just misinformed, but thank you. That tank is seriously an auto include IMO, the alternate firing mode makes it so useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RancidHate wrote:
The Baron's BeastPack is actualy a bargain. You get a lot of 4++ saves, a lot of attacks and they can very easily get a turn 2 charge which causes the most important thing to happen; it forces your opponent's hand when it comes to target priority.

Since I always run the Baron as my HQ with the BeastPack the "HQ tax" is mitigated since it's what I want. The only DE "troop tax" is Warriors with Splinter rifles & Splinter Cannon in a Raider with Splinter Racks and, that is an awesome unit.

Now if you main DE and want the Eldar allies, go Eldrad and JBikes because JBikes. And yo, listen up dawgs, throw in a Fire Prism, DE don't got AV12 and AP3 pie plates.

I actually don't like edrad any more, a stock farseer for half his points with guide and prescience seems much much better IMO.

Has any one considered using lady malice to get around the IC infiltration problem. Put Karandras with a large unit of grotesques or incubi then use Lady malice to redeploy the unit so that you can infiltrate the whole thing. I don't see why this wouldn't work as she doesn't have the same restrictions as eldrad.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RancidHate wrote:
The Baron's BeastPack is actualy a bargain. You get a lot of 4++ saves, a lot of attacks and they can very easily get a turn 2 charge which causes the most important thing to happen; it forces your opponent's hand when it comes to target priority.

Since I always run the Baron as my HQ with the BeastPack the "HQ tax" is mitigated since it's what I want. The only DE "troop tax" is Warriors with Splinter rifles & Splinter Cannon in a Raider with Splinter Racks and, that is an awesome unit.

Now if you main DE and want the Eldar allies, go Eldrad and JBikes because JBikes. And yo, listen up dawgs, throw in a Fire Prism, DE don't got AV12 and AP3 pie plates.

I actually don't like edrad any more, a stock farseer for half his points with guide and prescience seems much much better IMO.

Has any one considered using lady malice to get around the IC infiltration problem. Put Karandras with a large unit of grotesques or incubi then use Lady malice to redeploy the unit so that you can infiltrate the whole thing. I don't see why this wouldn't work as she doesn't have the same restrictions as eldrad.

RancidHate wrote:
Has any one considered using lady malice to get around the IC infiltration problem. Put Karandras with a large unit of grotesques or incubi then use Lady malice to redeploy the unit so that you can infiltrate the whole thing. I don't see why this wouldn't work as she doesn't have the same restrictions as eldrad.

Dark Eldar FAQ wrote:Page 53 – Lady Malys, Precognisant.
Change the second sentence to "At the start of the game, after both sides have been deployed but before Infiltrator deployment and Scout redeployments, the Dark Eldar player may redeploy D3 units in his army, including placing them in Reserve, though this may not result in more than half of your army beginning the game in Reserve. Note that units redeployed this way that are not placed in Reserve may not be deployed outside of the Dark Eldar deployment zone."

Good idea, but the FAQ doesn't allow any unit redeploying out of the deployment zone. Also, Karandras with Incubi

Below is a report from my most recent game against the new eldar (with pictures):

BR26: The Black Buzzards VS Eldar Mech - 1500pts

Hope that's useful.

How do chaps,

I have a game this Thursday, myself on DE and my brother in law (Tau) vs my Dads Orcs.

It's a 2000 point game, with 1000 points of DE & 1000 of Tau vs 2000 of Orcs.

We're likely to face off against 3 Battlewagons, green tide running behind the BW's, a Big Mek with KFF & 2 dakkajets.

Ordinarily I'd just load warriors in to gun boats with splinter racks, maybe a blasterborn or incubi squad with my Archon (load out dependant on the squad he's with).

I fancy mixing it up a bit though so thought I'd see what you guys would recommend?

If you have Reavers and Wracks I'd suggest giving them a try.

Has anyone tried DE with Codex Iyanden allies?

It looks fun.

Puscifer wrote:
Has anyone tried DE with Codex Iyanden allies?

It looks fun.

Im under the impression that suppliments count as coming out of the core dex, and thus prohibit an allied detachment of the suppliments to your selfsame army. It's more of an expansion pack to your dex than a separate dex.

 davou wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Has anyone tried DE with Codex Iyanden allies?

It looks fun.

Im under the impression that suppliments count as coming out of the core dex, and thus prohibit an allied detachment of the suppliments to your selfsame army. It's more of an expansion pack to your dex than a separate dex.

Yes, but how does that stop you running an Iyanden Eldar Army as allies with a Dark Eldar force?

Drager wrote:
If you have Reavers and Wracks I'd suggest giving them a try.

Just 3 reavers and 5 wracks atm. Future addition will be grotesques though they're way off yet.

Will 3 reavers do anything alone? Or if I run them alongside venoms blade vaning and chain snaring everything at high speed?

 kitch102 wrote:

Drager wrote:
If you have Reavers and Wracks I'd suggest giving them a try.

Just 3 reavers and 5 wracks atm. Future addition will be grotesques though they're way off yet.

Will 3 reavers do anything alone? Or if I run them alongside venoms blade vaning and chain snaring everything at high speed?

3 reavers, I'd say, are rather useless, could be used as a distraction/harassment unit against some opponents at most, with some careful positioning, they could become quite annoying to ignore, and will at least draw away one unit's fire from your more useful units. Really, I don't think they can do anything significant, if it just so happens that you have just that much spare points left, and nowhere else better to spend those points, then by all means, go for it. I would probably go for the cluster caltrops upgrade if I'm running 3 reavers as harassment, that single BS4 blaster/heat lance missing would just be meeeeh, at least with bladvaning, you'd have a good chance at doing a wound or two.

EDIT: Also, in the 1/6 chance you get scouring, you could have your reavers sit far out of range then turbo boost to score/deny an objective at endgame turn!

With 5 wracks, you could probably try running them in unit of 3, plain to buy another venom, or get an aco with hexrifle to do some hex-sniping.

Visiting family today and I've just been given £20 as a random gift, so I'm off to get another box of reavers shortly

I'm envisioning 2 squads of 3 making flank attacks from opposite sides of the board, dropping caltrops to pin as much as possible. They'll br followed by a venom and raider each. The raiders will unload rerollable SR shots, with the venoms dropping either wyches or incubi and my archon to mop up what's down. Alternatively small squads of TB with carbines for 27 poisoned shots per boat.

It'll be a small but elite, fast and hard hitting force. As long as the dice do what I want them to that is!

See any flaws to this theoretical tactic?

 kitch102 wrote:
Visiting family today and I've just been given £20 as a random gift, so I'm off to get another box of reavers shortly

I'm envisioning 2 squads of 3 making flank attacks from opposite sides of the board, dropping caltrops to pin as much as possible. They'll br followed by a venom and raider each. The raiders will unload rerollable SR shots, with the venoms dropping either wyches or incubi and my archon to mop up what's down. Alternatively small squads of TB with carbines for 27 poisoned shots per boat.

It'll be a small but elite, fast and hard hitting force. As long as the dice do what I want them to that is!

See any flaws to this theoretical tactic?

What are you using for anti-armour? If your opponent has all his troops in transports you might find it tough.

Yet to fully write my list up, which I'm hoping to do tomorrow night, though the majority of the AT role will be taken uo by my bros tau force. He'll pop the battlewagons and I'll mop up the foot sloggers.

I likely will take a single squad of blaster born in a venom, though I'm considering 2 DL TB standing a top a bastion instead. I'll also have my jetfighter though probably have DC's on that, so they won't be any use vs the battle wagons, though the extra shots coukd come in handy against other flyers.

Ok boys, eldar are out and now the question is what not to add to are lists? It seems like even anti horde and anti MC shooting is done better with the craftwolders and the new bordering broken bladestorm!

Thoughts?

Had a great game against blood angels. Probably one of the best games I have had in 6th. The ability to snipe models with reavers now thanks to using the final position of the reavers when allocating wounds when bladevaning is amazing. The link to the report is bellow with pictures as usual.

BR27: The Black Buzzards VS Blood Angels Mech - 1500pts

 Mushkilla wrote:
Had a great game against blood angels. Probably one of the best games I have had in 6th. The ability to snipe models with reavers now thanks to using the final position of the reavers when allocating wounds when bladevaning is amazing. The link to the report is bellow with pictures as usual.

BR27: The Black Buzzards VS Blood Angels Mech - 1500pts

Wow great strategy with the reaver sniping, I'll have to remember that one!

Thanks Red Corsair!

The usual war-gaming trash-talk at my local club lead to an interesting experiment. I exchanged armies with one of my Tau opponents, I made a Tau list, he made a DE list and we fought it out. It was a load of fun and really made me appreciate how mobile Tau can be (not having played them since some time in 3rd-4th)!

Here's the report if any one is interested (with pictures):

BR28: Kabal of the Bitter Envy VS Tau Mobile - 1000pts

Swapping armies is SUCH a good way to learn to appreciate other armies...and to learn their tolerances and traps. On paper, you might say "Meh" about a unit.

But then, we dont play on paper, now do we? =)