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How many units did he have that could lay down a marker light? First you shoot one unit to lay down one or two markerlights, then unit two eat those 1 to 2 markerlights to add more and then unit number 3 lett rip and remove the marker lights? That does not sound like too use of markerlight's vs DE.

Even in this particular matchup the reavers Cost around 265 points but they are hardly a deathstar, even with the bladewane attack. If the tau where up against a landraider caskading markerlights might make more sence, but vs flimsy space elves not so mutch?

Mushkilla wrote:Remember the battle report descriptions do not always have the correct order of events (they are made from notes and phone pictures taken during the game), a lot of the time he was shooting first with the marker drones.

But agreed he could have abused cascading markerlights more.

That's true, and point taken! Still, I did like the use of Marker Drones - he used them the way I imagined, using JSJ to keep them alive and safe. Still, BS2 seems to be a strong hindrance now that they've lost their twin-linking (but they're uber-cheap now, so its a wash at best, I'd say).

Niiai wrote:How many units did he have that could lay down a marker light? First you shoot one unit to lay down one or two markerlights, then unit two eat those 1 to 2 markerlights to add more and then unit number 3 lett rip and remove the marker lights? That does not sound like too use of markerlight's vs DE.

Even in this particular matchup the reavers Cost around 265 points but they are hardly a deathstar, even with the bladewane attack. If the tau where up against a landraider caskading markerlights might make more sence, but vs flimsy space elves not so mutch?

You wouldn't use cascading markerlights on a Land Raider as much as you would a unit like Reavers. Between the need to drop their cover save, and buff high BS, you're better off building a series of cascading markerlights to constantly buff attacks as you use each unit to focus down the Reavers. With the turbo-boost speed, the cover-save buff you really need to focus down Reavers and drop them or get them to fall back - otherwise they're all over you. And as Tau, that's not a good thing. So you're always needing at least 2 markerlight hits to remove their cover save. Add in the (almost required) benefit of boosting BS in order to maximize firepower, and the more markerlight hits you can get and cascade, the more damage you can do.

Something like a Land Raider will be almost exclusively targeted by a Railhead, at range; closer, you'd drop marker hits on it to buff a Fusion Blaster (off of a Stealth Suit team, Crisis Team, or whatever other delivery system). In that case, you're not cascading as much as dumping whatever marker unit you have on the Land Raider so your AT can kill it (And Longstrike doesn't even need that, unless the Land Raider has cover).

GhostRecon wrote:
That's true, and point taken! Still, I did like the use of Marker Drones - he used them the way I imagined, using JSJ to keep them alive and safe. Still, BS2 seems to be a strong hindrance now that they've lost their twin-linking (but they're uber-cheap now, so its a wash at best, I'd say).

Even at BS2 I would take them over pathfinders, relentless, JSJ, T4 and a 4+ save make them well worth it. That being said I think the squads need to be a bit bigger. The great thing with jump shoot jump is it really draws your opponent in as they will have a hard time taking the drones out at range (unlike pathfinders). Also at BS2 snapfiring them at BS1 for whatever reason is less of a problem as you have probably taken more to compensate fore their poor BS in the first place. Pathfinders are going to be firing at BS1 most of the time anyway as they will probably being going to ground more often that not. At least that's how I see it.

Well I will be playing tau soon... So far it sounds like it might be rough, I will have to let you guys know how it goes .

Another game against Tau if anyone is interested (riptides this time):

BR23: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mech/Riptide - 1500pts

You have good Battle reports! Reavers seem to be a great option against tau.

New Dark Eldar FAQ:

-Leliths attacks only ignore saves in CC.
-Hits caused by bladevanes are not longer allocated randomly. Determine the wounds from the end position of the jetbikes (finally).

 Mushkilla wrote:
New Dark Eldar FAQ:

-Leliths attacks only ignore saves in CC.
-Hits caused by bladevanes are not longer allocated randomly. Determine the wounds from the end position of the jetbikes (finally).

Makes things more simple at least.

Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

Hi all, - Another returning DE player here.

I've not played a game in sixth yet, but have been challenged to a game vs BA's @1500 pts.

Generally my 5th ed experience was okay with my wytch heavy Dark Eldar; I won a fair few, but got brutalised if my first two turns went to pot.

Just after some basic pointers really, having rabidly read most of the comments here, it looks all is not lost thankfully.

I generally run three Venoms, three Raiders, 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing with some Reaver support.

Any general advice for me would be awesome.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

The justicar challenged the Archon, but the Archon refused. The grey knights successfully activated their force weapons, they manage to inflict three wounds, which the Archon saves with his shadow-field. The grotesque fought back killing three grey knights. The grey knights hold.

If the Archon refused he would not be fighting, nor could any wound be put onto him, that would have meant 3 dead grots and a morale check which means you would have either got away or got run down,

MarkyMark wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:
Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

The justicar challenged the Archon, but the Archon refused. The grey knights successfully activated their force weapons, they manage to inflict three wounds, which the Archon saves with his shadow-field. The grotesque fought back killing three grey knights. The grey knights hold.

If the Archon refused he would not be fighting, nor could any wound be put onto him, that would have meant 3 dead grots and a morale check which means you would have either got away or got run down,

Actually, if you read the rules for challanges, it states it cannot strike blows, and the unit doesn't benefit from the models leadership, it can still get hit and take saves.

I used to play against BA a lot with my DE... The only real threat was the storm raven and Baal predator... Other than that, i would treat them as just basic marines.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Something a little different this time. No Reavers!

BR24: The Black Buzzards VS Grey Knights - 1000pts

nice list, I would have dropped the dark lances on the warriors for splinter cannons, with that 45 points you could have had another grotesque with a liquifier. On the archon i would have gone with a blaster although I am not sure where i would have gotten the points for it

MarkyMark wrote:
nor could any wound be put onto him

Where in the rule book does it say wounds can't be allocated on a model that refused a challenge? Also if that were the case any model that refused a challenge would effectively become invincible as your opponent would not be able to wound him.

 Exergy wrote:
nice list, I would have dropped the dark lances on the warriors for splinter cannons, with that 45 points you could have had another grotesque with a liquifier. On the archon i would have gone with a blaster although I am not sure where i would have gotten the points for it

Yeah I'm not sold on the Dark Lances, taking the opportunity to test stuff though (as smaller games take less time). I might drop them out but I'd be really low on ranged AT (not that it did much) but even ineffective ranged AT gives your opponent something to think about.

 Mushkilla wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
That's true, and point taken! Still, I did like the use of Marker Drones - he used them the way I imagined, using JSJ to keep them alive and safe. Still, BS2 seems to be a strong hindrance now that they've lost their twin-linking (but they're uber-cheap now, so its a wash at best, I'd say).

Even at BS2 I would take them over pathfinders, relentless, JSJ, T4 and a 4+ save make them well worth it. That being said I think the squads need to be a bit bigger. The great thing with jump shoot jump is it really draws your opponent in as they will have a hard time taking the drones out at range (unlike pathfinders). Also at BS2 snapfiring them at BS1 for whatever reason is less of a problem as you have probably taken more to compensate fore their poor BS in the first place. Pathfinders are going to be firing at BS1 most of the time anyway as they will probably being going to ground more often that not. At least that's how I see it.

Well they can take a crisis commander with drone controller and the whole unit of marker drones hits at bs5 which is pretty sick.

BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

 Red Corsair wrote:
BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

Nope, being a monstrous creature doesn't make you fearless any more, the same way chaos daemons MCs are not fearless either.

Don't forget about reavers being able to turbo boost every turn and do there little slash or whatever its called. Also d cannons ap2 is prettys awesome.

 Mushkilla wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
nor could any wound be put onto him

Where in the rule book does it say wounds can't be allocated on a model that refused a challenge? Also if that were the case any model that refused a challenge would effectively become invincible as your opponent would not be able to wound him.

 Exergy wrote:
nice list, I would have dropped the dark lances on the warriors for splinter cannons, with that 45 points you could have had another grotesque with a liquifier. On the archon i would have gone with a blaster although I am not sure where i would have gotten the points for it

Yeah I'm not sold on the Dark Lances, taking the opportunity to test stuff though (as smaller games take less time). I might drop them out but I'd be really low on ranged AT (not that it did much) but even ineffective ranged AT gives your opponent something to think about.

I did check the rules are I have been playing it wrong for ages!, I read it as the model gets put the back of the unit (so wounds cannot be put onto him FIRST as not in btb), but reading it again it is more of a fluff thing (sulking in the back of the units or some such words they use) so sorry you are correct.

MC's not being fearless does suck. Had a game against Tau this weekend, and I was rolling HORRIBLY. The final nail in the coffin was after three rounds of combat my talos couldn't put a single wound on some Crisis suits. Finally, the suits wounded the talos, I failed the morale check, and the suits managed to run the talos down.

Not cool.

Goresaw wrote:
MC's not being fearless does suck. Had a game against Tau this weekend, and I was rolling HORRIBLY. The final nail in the coffin was after three rounds of combat my talos couldn't put a single wound on some Crisis suits. Finally, the suits wounded the talos, I failed the morale check, and the suits managed to run the talos down.

Not cool.

talos are fearless i believe.

Goresaw wrote:
MC's not being fearless does suck. Had a game against Tau this weekend, and I was rolling HORRIBLY. The final nail in the coffin was after three rounds of combat my talos couldn't put a single wound on some Crisis suits. Finally, the suits wounded the talos, I failed the morale check, and the suits managed to run the talos down.

Not cool.

Ehm yeah, the Talos actually is Fearless. So now you'll be even more sorry...

Wouldn't have mattered. I had a beast pack fail a 4 inch charge, eldrad fail to kill a crisis commander who made 4 invul saves against ID wounds and then managed to outrun the old man, and of course, Baron failing his first shadowfield save on a STR 6 submunition from a hammerhead.

Really wasn't my day.

All in all though, if you kill the Tau's markerlights, they're very manageable. Their BS of three is pretty bad.

I also learned always take some form of CC units against Tau, otherwise they'll spend the whole game Jump-Shoot-Jumping and if you're playing with LoS blocking terrain, you're in a lot of trouble.

Goresaw wrote:
Wouldn't have mattered. I had a beast pack fail a 4 inch charge, eldrad fail to kill a crisis commander who made 4 invul saves against ID wounds and then managed to outrun the old man, and of course, Baron failing his first shadowfield save on a STR 6 submunition from a hammerhead.

Really wasn't my day.

I also learned always take some form of CC units against Tau, otherwise they'll spend the whole game Jump-Shoot-Jumping and if you're playing with LoS blocking terrain, you're in a lot of trouble.

Those days happen to us all, but occasionally you get the other side of it and feel awesome.
It is true that eventually you will need to CC but remember that against tau, most things are effective CC.

What unit would you guys use for manning the ADL? My group isn't using allies right now (which, I'm fine with... just so I see less IG), so Fire Dragons are out of the question.

I was thinking of a small unit of Incubi. The Klaivex is BS5 for some reason and they are a kinda scary unit for Terminators/MEQ to land near if they try to deepstrike or drop pod. They wouldn't have many bodies, but I think it could work.

I was also thinking of a unit of wracks with 2 Haemies. One of the Haemies would deposit his pain tokens into my beast unit so they are fearless.

The rest of my army is about what you'd expect. Baron, Venoms, one large beast unit, heat lance reavers, ravagers, razorwing.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 Red Viper wrote:
What unit would you guys use for manning the ADL? My group isn't using allies right now (which, I'm fine with... just so I see less IG), so Fire Dragons are out of the question.

I was thinking of a small unit of Incubi. The Klaivex is BS5 for some reason and they are a kinda scary unit for Terminators/MEQ to land near if they try to deepstrike or drop pod. They wouldn't have many bodies, but I think it could work.

I was also thinking of a unit of wracks with 2 Haemies. One of the Haemies would deposit his pain tokens into my beast unit so they are fearless.

The rest of my army is about what you'd expect. Baron, Venoms, one large beast unit, heat lance reavers, ravagers, razorwing.

Thanks for any suggestions.

I'm using the twinlinked quadgun on the ADL, so BS4 will usually suffice. I use either 10 warriors with a single splinter cannon or 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons. I usually buy them a transport as well: a raider to provide cover for the rest of my skimmers or a venom for extra firepower. These deploy separately.

 Red Viper wrote:

I was thinking of a small unit of Incubi. The Klaivex is BS5 for some reason and they are a kinda scary unit for Terminators/MEQ to land near if they try to deepstrike or drop pod. They wouldn't have many bodies, but I think it could work.

Incubi would be terrible, even a 3 man unit with a klaivex would cost 81 points and an elite slot. All you would get would be 3 fairly easily killed wounds.
You could perhaps bring a haemi ancient, still BS5, still 3 wounds but at T4. He could be your warlord and he could sit with a squad. Also cover + FNP + T4 he would be much more survivable. If you really want to make an uber quad gun manning squad take mandrakes(stealth being key) and the haemi's pain token gives you a bunch of str 4 shots to add on(maybe if you see AV10 they will do something)

 Red Viper wrote:


I was also thinking of a unit of wracks with 2 Haemies. One of the Haemies would deposit his pain tokens into my beast unit so they are fearless.

takes too many movements to get all the pain tokens onto the beasts. When an IC leaves a unit, pain tokens are split as close to evenly as possible. So you start 1 hamei(A) with the beasts, one(B) with the wracks. First turn they switch places, Haemi(A) leaves his pain token with the beasts. Haemi(B) can only take 1 pain token with him to the beasts. Turn 2 hamei B returns to the beasts with the last pain token, but that is turn 2 already.
It also costs 130 points. A cronos can get you pain tokens pretty fast for 100 pts.

Thanks for the input Mandor and Exergy.

 Exergy wrote:

Incubi would be terrible, even a 3 man unit with a klaivex would cost 81 points and an elite slot. All you would get would be 3 fairly easily killed wounds.

You could perhaps bring a haemi ancient, still BS5, still 3 wounds but at T4. He could be your warlord and he could sit with a squad. Also cover + FNP + T4 he would be much more survivable. If you really want to make an uber quad gun manning squad take mandrakes(stealth being key) and the haemi's pain token gives you a bunch of str 4 shots to add on(maybe if you see AV10 they will do something)

takes too many movements to get all the pain tokens onto the beasts. When an IC leaves a unit, pain tokens are split as close to evenly as possible. So you start 1 hamei(A) with the beasts, one(B) with the wracks. First turn they switch places, Haemi(A) leaves his pain token with the beasts. Haemi(B) can only take 1 pain token with him to the beasts. Turn 2 hamei B returns to the beasts with the last pain token, but that is turn 2 already.
It also costs 130 points. A cronos can get you pain tokens pretty fast for 100 pts.

Yeah, I wasn't sold on the incubi... really they are just one of my favorite units and I wanted to work them in. I have one elite spot open, so that's not much of an issue. Mandrakes are surprisingly a decent option. Thanks for suggesting them. It would be fun to finally use them also.

I forgot that they had to split the tokens as evenly as possible, that makes the logistics too complicated. Cronos could be a decent option, but heavy slots are tough to cut from.

Mandor wrote:I'm using the twinlinked quadgun on the ADL, so BS4 will usually suffice. I use either 10 warriors with a single splinter cannon or 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons. I usually buy them a transport as well: a raider to provide cover for the rest of my skimmers or a venom for extra firepower. These deploy separately.

I probably wouldn't put splintercannons on my units, but a unit of warriors might do the trick. Truborn with some Dark Lances sprinkled in might be doable also.

Tb with dl's are awful, too expensive and too squishy. Give them blasters and keep them moving

 Mushkilla wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

Nope, being a monstrous creature doesn't make you fearless any more, the same way chaos daemons MCs are not fearless either.

Interesting I had not realized that, so hard sometimes keeping rules straight after playing since 2nd edition lol. Makes the riptides much less scary actually. Now dropping any drones they may bring is a huge liability to him. I assume not many players will take the drones though.