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 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
BTW does the tau codex say riptides are not fearless? I thought they were MC so would have it by default?

Nope, being a monstrous creature doesn't make you fearless any more, the same way chaos daemons MCs are not fearless either.

Interesting I had not realized that, so hard sometimes keeping rules straight after playing since 2nd edition lol. Makes the riptides much less scary actually. Now dropping any drones they may bring is a huge liability to him. I assume not many players will take the drones though.

actually i remember in 5th seeing that the Talos was fearless and was also an MC which made him fearless(double fearless!). Thought it was an oversight but apparently they had a plan in place to make MCs not fearless

 Red Corsair wrote:
so hard sometimes keeping rules straight after playing since 2nd edition lol.

Tell me about it!

So I'm thinking about DE for my next army, and rather than starting a whole new thread I guess I'll post my questions here:

1. Ravagers or one of the two Fliers? I'd like to take both, but since they are both HS in smaller point games I'd have to choose between the two.

2. Is there any way to make the Talos/Cronos MCs useful? I love the models, but everyone says don't bother (and again, they take up a HS slot).

3. With the changes to blast weapons (hits vehicles at full strength now if any part covers it), is taking the Shredder either for Warriors or Trueborn actually viable now?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So I'm thinking about DE for my next army, and rather than starting a whole new thread
It's a fine army - fast, maneuverable, effectively able to redeploy at will, with a lot of nasty tricks and toys - we don't care what your armour or toughness is, it's all just a target (Generally hitting on a 3+, wounding on a 4+ (or 2+ with lances), glancing on a 2-4, and a 5+ is always a pen.
I guess I'll post my questions here:

1. Ravagers or one of the two Fliers? I'd like to take both, but since they are both HS in smaller point games I'd have to choose between the two.
No, no you don't!
3 Ravagers with shields is 345pts (115 each), (Kitted Talos are the same for what it's worth) and a Razorwing with Shields is 155, so you can happily have 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing for 385pts, so can feasibly, nay easily do it at anything 750pts+.
With most troops only running you 120-200pts, including transports, we're cheap. (On a side note, god I had a shock when I started CSM.)

2. Is there any way to make the Talos MCs useful? I love the models, but everyone says don't bother (and again, they take up a HS slot).
I love Talos. I really do. Though 1 is kind of pants and will get shot up pretty fast, 2 is great, and what I take by default over Raiders - it's a force modifier.
While people focus on my 2 Talos, they're ignoring the rest of my Raiders bringing my forces into their face. Generally one survives to rape some face, but the big thing is it lets the rest of my army get where it needs to unhindered.
Or while they're ignoring my Talos, and focusing on some of my Raiders bearing down on them, meaning my Talos make it into contact to do their dark work.

3. With the changes to blast weapons (hits vehicles at full strength now if any part covers it), is taking the Shredder either for Warriors or Trueborn actually viable now?
hahahaha, no. No they are not. They look alright on paper - Assault 1, Str6, small blast. But it's AP-, but frankly, you can take Plasma and Haywire Grenades anyway, which give a Str4 blast, and S2, Haywire blast respectively.

The key with Dark Eldar, in my opinion, is multiple units in your opponents face, denying them the ability to enact proper target priority - everything is big, scary and in their face, the whole army is converging on 1-3 targets with overwhelming firepower and they'll have too many targets to know what to do about it.

Yeah, I generally like my talos too. If they survive to get into CC, I much prefer them to ravagers. I replaced 2 of my ravagers for the talos because I was sick and tired of them doing absolutely nothing all game. Miss, miss, glance, fail to pen, fail to pen, cover save... Nothing.

At least you know, if the talos lives, it will wreck face. Even in games where your opponent has high maneuverability, most will eventually get sloppy and let the talos get to close.

And they are a great board control unit. Being able to force out into midfield and push opponents back away from objectives is a fantastic ability. No one is going to run away from a venom or a raider full of kabalites. Push 2 talos in cover, and you'll see squads heading the other way.

However, don't expect miracles from Talos. They aren't immune to small arms fire, and you will lose them ridiculously fast to plasma and melta fire. You have to use them carefully. These guys aren't dreadknights or TH/SS termis.

Oh, and ALWAYS take the chain flails. Rolling a 1 for your attacks SUCKS.

Seems like the Talos is one of the few things that is worth taking a WWP especially for.

And what about the Chronos? Pain Tokens for all?

 Ovion wrote:
(On a side note, god I had a shock when I started CSM.)

Gathering necrons on the side(I know, boo necrons boo, right?), and I had that same reaction... And to top it off, necrons are cheap, price-wise... And gameplay-wise as some might say!

And I disagree, Goresaw, TL SC + TL liquifier Talos is better than some silly chain flails! You may do less attacks in assault, but the liquifier with rerolled to-wounds should've cover that loss quite well, as well as reducing potential overwatch that could hurt your Talos, and not only that, you've saved 5 points!

I play with friends alot... And I tried out 2 talos and a cronos... As well as 2 ravagers and razorwing.... The talo and cronos wrecked face!

Goes good with a coven army

Baronyu wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
(On a side note, god I had a shock when I started CSM.)

Gathering necrons on the side(I know, boo necrons boo, right?), and I had that same reaction... And to top it off, necrons are cheap, price-wise... And gameplay-wise as some might say!

And I disagree, Goresaw, TL SC + TL liquifier Talos is better than some silly chain flails! You may do less attacks in assault, but the liquifier with rerolled to-wounds should've cover that loss quite well, as well as reducing potential overwatch that could hurt your Talos, and not only that, you've saved 5 points!

Personally I go for TL Haywire + TL Liquifier - I like my TAC goodness, and they can still throw out hurt on most anything from a distance. Then they get in close, and things get exciting.

I came into a medium sized Necron Force over christmas, but I was already deadened to the costs thanks to CSM at that point.

Good fun though - 'crons are crazy resilient.
And I mean, having played Dark Eldar since 2000ish, with only a brief dabble in oldcrons around 2002/2003 (which I frankly remember little about), I'm used to everything being fast and squishy. Then coming into Tau, I was astounded at the difference having an Armour Value higher than 11 made!
Then CSM / Crons - Holy crap, 3+ Saves and Ressurection Protocols!?!? goddamn.

Dalek-crons?! Now that is just amazing... Even the spruecrons pale in comparison!

And same here, I'm always amazed, and confused, by necrons' S4 T4 or just the fact that they have an armour save worth caring about! "What do you mean they can stay alive without hiding in a barely more durable skimmer? That's crazy talk!! ... Wait! Their skimmers are AV13?! Have I gone mad?!" But yet, I still remember the early days of DE when I fielded my 1st ravager and felt so proud of its AV11...

But let's not derail this thread too far...

On the topic of Talos, at one point, I did want to run them with TL-Haywire, but seeing that I have to pay 5 points for that, as well as that I could only at best get another glance from it, I figured the free TL-SC might be more point-efficient, but of course, it all depends on what you need for your list, I guess.

And this thread is tempting me to turn my entire HS slots into coven engines...! Gah!! Now if someone would tell me the winning lottery ticket numbers for tomorrow, I'd be so grateful!

Baronyu wrote:
Dalek-crons?! Now that is just amazing... Even the spruecrons pale in comparison!

And same here, I'm always amazed, and confused, by necrons' S4 T4 or just the fact that they have an armour save worth caring about! "What do you mean they can stay alive without hiding in a barely more durable skimmer? That's crazy talk!! ... Wait! Their skimmers are AV13?! Have I gone mad?!" But yet, I still remember the early days of DE when I fielded my 1st ravager and felt so proud of its AV11...

But let's not derail this thread too far...

On the topic of Talos, at one point, I did want to run them with TL-Haywire, but seeing that I have to pay 5 points for that, as well as that I could only at best get another glance from it, I figured the free TL-SC might be more point-efficient, but of course, it all depends on what you need for your list, I guess.

And this thread is tempting me to turn my entire HS slots into coven engines...! Gah!! Now if someone would tell me the winning lottery ticket numbers for tomorrow, I'd be so grateful!

A save.. outside of cover? What is this madness!
And thankyou - though like so much of my stuff, I really need to get round to finishing painting the buggers....

As for my DE these days, my force is primarily a Coven.
2-3 Raiders of Grotesques and Haems, with a pair of liquifiers and venom blades, 2-3 Raiders of Wracks - liquifiers and venom blades, 2-3 Venoms of Wracks w/ a Hex Rifle, 2 Talos (TL Liquifier, TL HWB) and a Razorwing.
Served me well so far. It's all a balance of making nothing a bigger threat than anything else, but everything a big enough threat it needs to be dealt with at once.

And yeah - I'm known as the man with a Dark Eldar Army that has no Dark Eldar in it.
My Haemonculi and Grotesques are converted out of Dryad kits, my Wracks out of Plague Monks, my Talos / Chronos all Scratch Built, and I shudder to think what it would have cost new. (Upwards of £600...)
Only the vehicles are actually DE in my coven, and even then, only 2 (1 venom and the Razorwing) are the new versions. xD
I mean, I have another 5-7000pts of not coven stuff as well (most of it's even DE models, both new and old... (mostly old)), but it's just not as fun.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Seems like the Talos is one of the few things that is worth taking a WWP especially for.

And what about the Chronos? Pain Tokens for all?

With my 2000+ pt all-coven lists i run three Taloi, each with a Cronos buddy tagging along with them.

Not generally the MOST effective use of 6 HS slots, but the firepower they can lay down is impressive, and they look damn cool...

I really need to get around to painting them though...

 Ascalam wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Seems like the Talos is one of the few things that is worth taking a WWP especially for.

And what about the Chronos? Pain Tokens for all?

With my 2000+ pt all-coven lists i run three Taloi, each with a Cronos buddy tagging along with them.

Not generally the MOST effective use of 6 HS slots, but the firepower they can lay down is impressive, and they look damn cool...

I really need to get around to painting them though...

would you mind posting your list? I was just coming up with a 2k list that was nothing but Hemonculi, Wracks in raiders, and Talos/Cronos. Tried to get every 9-man wrack unit to have one Haemonculi but it was getting expensive.

My lists vary a bit.

Here's a rough outline of my last one, from memory.

HQ - Haemonculus - no wargear

HQ - ditto, sometimes Urien because he's cool.

HS - 3 taloi

HS- 3 Cronoi

Troops - 3 man squads of wracks in raiders (5 with liquifier if points spare) - up to 6

Troops - 3 -5 man squads of wracks in venoms, pos with liquifier- up to 6

You can get a LOT of firepower from 3 wrack units taking rides. IRRC i took 4 with raider, 4 in venoms last time.

I don't generally bother trying to get wracks into CC, as they aren't that hot at it. If i want to down a MC i use multiple units, plus the firepower from their venoms or raiders. No single unit is all that expensive if i lose it, and it forces the enemy to split fire, which means that I get longer to fire back..

You'd be surprised at how resilient a 3 man wrack unit can be I'll try to find one of my old lists to post up later, when i can get back to my main computer,

3 Wracks with a Hex Rifle make great objective holders too.
Pretty resilient with cover + fnp, but the big one is - it's basically a 3 man squad with 1 36" range splinter rifle in your opponents eyes, meaning it gets ignored, picking off the odd troops here and there, while ensuring you hold the objective.

Also - I find Wracks in CC to be pretty good actually.
30+ Poisoned 4+ Poisoned attacks with re-rolls against T3 (and T4 with furious charge), after putting 2 APD6 flamers into a unit is nothing to sniff at, and can happily put down hordes and monsters alike.

True enough. They're ok, just not great enough for me to want to run them into the teeth of anyone else's assault unit. They're fine for dropping a small unit that relies on its T and/or cover saves, like Nob Bikers

A full unit of 10 can put some hurt down. I don't run mine as full units though. My little dinky units get ignored right up until several of them cruise up to gank a Tervigon or whatever.

A full unit in a raider tends to get shot at a lot more, and is a good deal less cheap/throwaway when it dies (and too damn fragile to survive such attention...)

Wracks make good grot squads but I am finding them less and less useful next to kabalites.

It's fun to try out a coven army... But everyone In awhile you can't just resist to play with a wyche cult / Kabal again.

Thats just it though, I find that warriors compliment the coven elites with their shooting more then wracks which kinda stinks if you want to go pure coven for theme :/

No. Monstrous Creatures are not fearless by default. Only a Monstrous Creature wit hthe Fearless rule is Fearless.

Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

 SkaredCast wrote:
Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

The abyssal staff uses leadership to cause wounds but instant death still uses toughness meaning Urien and the grots can't be doubled out from the abyssal staffs. That alone makes this a different game.

RP tokens are removed if the unit is swept meaning the lord should have stayed down.

Your wracks once fearless can no longer go to ground.

Aside from these few things great game as always and thanks for sharing!

 Red Corsair wrote:

 SkaredCast wrote:
Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

The abyssal staff uses leadership to cause wounds but instant death still uses toughness meaning Urien and the grots can't be doubled out from the abyssal staffs. That alone makes this a different game.

RP tokens are removed if the unit is swept meaning the lord should have stayed down.

Your wracks once fearless can no longer go to ground.

Aside from these few things great game as always and thanks for sharing!

Lords have Everliving, meaning they get to get up, pretty much regardless.

On a personal note - It's pronounced Kuhv-en, not Koh-ven, Tah-loss, not Tay-loss

In regards to the list - I'd have taken the 2-3 Haemonculi over Urien. (I'd also have been running 2 squads of Grotesques in Raiders, and 2 10man +2-3 3man Wrack squads but that's me, I tend to run a more 'pure' coven list).

You also seem to have spread your fire out quite a bit, with not much focus - for example, if you'd have focused on the stalker OR the barge, they'd each be down 2 Hull Points, instead of 1. I find focusing all your fire on each target till it's out of commission is the bet plan, rather than chipping at several units that can still come up and hurt you / deny / etc.

You realised splitting it was a bad idea, and I concur, slamming your army into the flank would have reduced the effectiveness of his army to hurt you.

It's also nice to see a coven using actual models (how much must that have set you back!), makes for an interesting change.

Just forget assaulting ANYTHING at all EVER, 6th ed has seen to the death of melee. Build a pew pew list and hope they dont have a Manticore

 Ovion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 SkaredCast wrote:
Played against my friends Necrons with a Coven Dark Eldar list. I have noticed a few things I did wrong with my deployment and target priority and movement.

Here is the game 1500pts Necrons vs Dark Eldar

What would you have done differently?

The abyssal staff uses leadership to cause wounds but instant death still uses toughness meaning Urien and the grots can't be doubled out from the abyssal staffs. That alone makes this a different game.

RP tokens are removed if the unit is swept meaning the lord should have stayed down.

Your wracks once fearless can no longer go to ground.

Aside from these few things great game as always and thanks for sharing!

Lords have Everliving, meaning they get to get up, pretty much regardless.

On a personal note - It's pronounced Kuhv-en, not Koh-ven, Tah-loss, not Tay-loss

In regards to the list - I'd have taken the 2-3 Haemonculi over Urien. (I'd also have been running 2 squads of Grotesques in Raiders, and 2 10man +2-3 3man Wrack squads but that's me, I tend to run a more 'pure' coven list).

You also seem to have spread your fire out quite a bit, with not much focus - for example, if you'd have focused on the stalker OR the barge, they'd each be down 2 Hull Points, instead of 1. I find focusing all your fire on each target till it's out of commission is the bet plan, rather than chipping at several units that can still come up and hurt you / deny / etc.

You realised splitting it was a bad idea, and I concur, slamming your army into the flank would have reduced the effectiveness of his army to hurt you.

It's also nice to see a coven using actual models (how much must that have set you back!), makes for an interesting change.

Not true as sweeping a unit literally doesn't allow any tokens to be placed.

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Just forget assaulting ANYTHING at all EVER, 6th ed has seen to the death of melee. Build a pew pew list and hope they dont have a Manticore

Well thats just plain not true.

Dark eldar with eldar allies can make some pretty potent close combat based armies. And Im hoping that is upheld and perhaps even improved with the new eldar codex.

Beast Packs, Grotesques, large wych squads all have places in 6th edition.

Feel dumb for asking this but what's the difference between Coven list and Cult list?

I'm assuming Cult is mostly wyches and warriors, Coven is mostly Haemonculus related creations?

Warriors form kabals, wyches cults and wracks/haemis etc are coven.

Had a game against a Tau list that could put out 52 S7 twinlinked shots and loaded to the brim with ignore cover. Battle report bellow:

BR25: The Black Buzzards VS Tau Mass Broadsides - 1500pts

So new Eldar are out. Looks like their psychic powers just target a friendly unit now, so that's a subtle buff to their allies.

What units do you think are worth including as an ally force?