SeanDrake wrote:
Yeah I'm sure that a month after the books hit debts of half milion it was coincidence that 2 new compamies formed and all the assets were moved to them.
I guess it was also an accident that they spent 6 months ish taking pre orders and cash for stock they could not get.
I guess it was also just a misunderstanding that they stpped taing calls and responding to messages.

Yeah all just an innocent mixture of circumstances and if you believe that and are not a regular at the store I have some shares to sell you in a cheese mine on the moon.

Hey. I have been pretty vocal about maelstrom and their shoddy way of handling their orders.

I think that they treated their customers very poorly especially overseas customers, who have been hit hardest over the last 12 months through Maelstroms poor efforts and stock control which I assume is partly down to their credit situation. I should clarify and say that the staff are incompetent, apathetic or have not been allowed to communicate with the customer base.

If MG were taking pre order cash in order to pay for that stock then that was a pretty poor route to take as far as customers are concerned, but not unheard of and a legit means of operating. in certain circumstances.








Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
What kind of cheese?

I was really hoping they would pull through some how as I really liked having a discount retailer with a large range within driving distance, however today I lodeged a paypal claim over a 40day old GW order they couldn't give me an ETA on. The two orders I placed in firesales arrived fine. I hope nobody ends up out of pocket over this.

From what I am reading Most UK orders for their firesale were despatched and received in full;, our overseas friends have a different tale.

I took advantage of their recent 80% off offers, placed a few orders. Received three packages, two of which had missing items. I guess I should count my blessings, the missing items only cost me about a tenner...

 Mr. Burning wrote:

...our overseas friends have a different tale.

Well, kind of.
When the first discount newsletter arrived on 6th october, I placed an order for some FoW stuff, needless to say: all in stock. This order was shown as "packing" shortly after.
On 8th october this order went to "processing" again - and still was when the website went offline today.

On 18th and 22nd october I placed another two orders, the first one shown "packing" on 22nd, "shipped" on 23rd and arrived on 30th.
The second one was split on 25th, due to "out of stock", both splits were shown "packing" this whole week - how long does it take to pack a dozen FoW blisters?

So altogether, one out of three orders arrived, on is "packing" (though I doubt that), the third "processing"

This is not a witch-hunt, this situation was created by Maelstrom, for Maelstrom, mainly due to lack of communication.

I also used Maelstrom for many things, I still have some Banelords miniatures waiting to be assembled, but this does not make me blind to what is going on. Being a regular at the store or a loyal customer shouldn't make a difference in this case. It is clear something is very wrong.

Spoke to UK Citizen advice today. They are a kind of go between for consumers and Trading standards.

They informed me that as Maelstrom hadn’t fulfilled my order within 30 days they were in breach of the UKs Distance Selling regulation and are as a result in breached of contract but it was a civil matter.
However, because they hadn’t refunded me within 30 days after this (so plus 60 days from original order date) it had become a criminal matter and the details had been passed to Trading Standards.

I imagine there are several people out there in the same situation as me so TS probably have a small stack of complaints by now.

Been keeping an eye on my split order and as of yesterday the greater part was still being processed.Tried to check today to find their site is now down for maintainance

 Mr. Burning wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Yeah I'm sure that a month after the books hit debts of half milion it was coincidence that 2 new compamies formed and all the assets were moved to them.
I guess it was also an accident that they spent 6 months ish taking pre orders and cash for stock they could not get.
I guess it was also just a misunderstanding that they stpped taing calls and responding to messages.

Yeah all just an innocent mixture of circumstances and if you believe that and are not a regular at the store I have some shares to sell you in a cheese mine on the moon.

Hey. I have been pretty vocal about maelstrom and their shoddy way of handling their orders.

I think that they treated their customers very poorly especially overseas customers, who have been hit hardest over the last 12 months through Maelstroms poor efforts and stock control which I assume is partly down to their credit situation. I should clarify and say that the staff are incompetent, apathetic or have not been allowed to communicate with the customer base.

If MG were taking pre order cash in order to pay for that stock then that was a pretty poor route to take as far as customers are concerned, but not unheard of and a legit means of operating. in certain circumstances.








Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
What kind of cheese?

I was really hoping they would pull through some how as I really liked having a discount retailer with a large range within driving distance, however today I lodeged a paypal claim over a 40day old GW order they couldn't give me an ETA on. The two orders I placed in firesales arrived fine. I hope nobody ends up out of pocket over this.

From what I am reading Most UK orders for their firesale were despatched and received in full;, our overseas friends have a different tale.

I don't agree with the legit means of operating, if they say they are only selling 'in stock' items then it is pretty clear if those items don't exist they are being fraudulent. Not only that i know some of the items i bought early in Oct was sold out, then they suddenly found more of them in the warehouse with a load of other items, it's a shame though that none of the ones i bought ever turned up, and i doubt any of the new imaginary ones ever got past 'dispatched'.

raykey wrote:
... their site is now down for maintainance

You don't really believe that "maintenance" thingy, do you?

HopScotch wrote:
Spoke to UK Citizen advice today. They are a kind of go between for consumers and Trading standards.

They informed me that as Maelstrom hadn’t fulfilled my order within 30 days they were in breach of the UKs Distance Selling regulation and are as a result in breached of contract but it was a civil matter.
However, because they hadn’t refunded me within 30 days after this (so plus 60 days from original order date) it had become a criminal matter and the details had been passed to Trading Standards.

I imagine there are several people out there in the same situation as me so TS probably have a small stack of complaints by now.

I'm quoting this, not because it affects me but because it really needs to be repeated!

The Maelstrom Games Website is currently down for Biscuit Taking, most likely!

I ordered on 8.10. Till today it was still waiting order. Didn't get it, no answer of the mails nor to the calls I made. In Tuesday I went to my bank and started a refunding procedure. Hope I will get my money back.

I did ordered the new Infinity book in the end of August. So far no news from them ... !!!

 Alpharius wrote:
The Maelstrom Games Website is currently down for Biscuit Taking, most likely!

The biscuits were taken long ago.

Only crumbs and wafers are left now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

captain tanuki wrote:
Thanks to all the guys who posted to say "i received my order, so dont worry, you can order safely".

Shouldn't have ignored the many of us who were giving the big warnings, perhaps? It was clearly a gamble with your money by that stage. You chose to hear what you wanted to hear, and took the tempting discount offers. Because it won't happen to me, surely? C'est la vie.

Yes I have to believe the maintance thingy, cos the pixies and fairies at the bottom of my garden say its true. Plus I often maintain myself with a biscuit

scipio.au, with your last post, you Sir, win the internet.

Piranha wrote:
I did ordered the new Infinity book in the end of August. So far no news from them ... !!!

MG didn't get any Paradiso books - there are quite a few posts on the Infinity threads about this, luckily the distributor sent extras out to other shops in the UK - so if you're fast you can probably still grab the Ltd Edition mini as well. I've heard there should be some at the Warfare show in Reading (not that any of this helps you much on the loss of money). It does still give anyone who pre-ordered (and won't be receiving) the Paradiso book a small chance of grabbing Go-Go- Marlene and Paradiso elsewhere. I think Firestorm games, Titan Games, Total Wargamer and Arcane miniatures got mentioned in the threads along the way somewhere.

I doubt you'll see any response now until something else happens or someone else goes in and takes over MG

 scipio.au wrote:


Shouldn't have ignored the many of us who were giving the big warnings, perhaps? It was clearly a gamble with your money by that stage. You chose to hear what you wanted to hear, and took the tempting discount offers. Because it won't happen to me, surely? C'est la vie.

Yup, I think once the fire sales started people should have been cautious. I personally made 4 orders (1 at each level of discount), each under £20, knowing that I wouldn' t lose too much, and that with the discounts I'd saved more than some order values.

The only thing I'm missing is a pack of bases, but I've probably saved about £70 Vs RRP so I don't mind.

Incidently, I just got in my 80% firesale order, still shown as "packing" on the site before it went down, so there's still hope for people who've placed firesale orders. I suspect the situation is a bit more grim for those who've got orders for out of stock stuff though :(

Good to hear that some people were/are still getting some/most of their stuff.

RIP Maelstrom Games (that can be either 'peace' or 'pieces' depending on how you have done out of them). Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK and one has to wonder at the level of incompetence of their management for it to happen (especially on the back of a reputed 20% growth in the wargaming industry last year). From what I have heard, not so much a problem of them not making money, more of too much money being taken out of the company.

I've lost a fiver over it. I feel really sorry for those who have lost more, and now might be extremely pensive about ever investing significant money in the hobby again as a result - this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Annoyingly, however, the company will continue to run under the name of "Eye of the Storm gaming"

This move was made to save the Venue. Which i'm stoked about, as i go there twice a week and without it, would have to spend my money on lesser things... Like Food... and Rent...

And The Woman.....

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Annoyingly, however, the company will continue to run under the name of "Eye of the Storm gaming"

They're already operating under that and have been for at least a month. How do I know? I got my credit card bill through today and a payment is labelled as "Eye of the Storm, Mansfield". from when I was up there a month ago.

EotS was a continuation of the MG registration if that continues to be the case then it's quite possible that the administrators will want to loo at taking possession of anything and everything on those premises (so don't leave anything here and label it as yours).

I understood it to now be under another name rather than EotS.

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

QFT

Just edited the Dakka Store Finder too....Lets see what happens next, my prediction EotS won't last much longer either.

mwnciboo wrote:

blingman wrote:Resent what you like, its speculation until we know otherwise and know it alls like yourself repeatedly making your doom and gloom bs hypotheses public are doing them no favours

Over -18000% change on Networth in a Year? A BS Hypothesis? Well we shall see who is proved right shall we.....

Enough said.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

One presumes you hold a similar dislike for Wayland Games and The Warstore, then, and would equally be cheerleading if they were to go down in a ball of flames as well?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

One presumes you hold a similar dislike for Wayland Games and The Warstore, then, and would equally be cheerleading if they were to go down in a ball of flames as well?

Yeah, I just don't get this view.
Surely they bought things at wholesale prices... like everyone else.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

Er... surely Maelstrom aren't responsible for GW's worldwide pricing structure?


Which retailers were specifically driven bankrupt by Maelstrom?

 Mr. Burning wrote:


If MG were taking pre order cash in order to pay for that stock then that was a pretty poor route to take as far as customers are concerned, but not unheard of and a legit means of operating. in certain circumstances.

From what I understand though, not legal in Europe.

 SoulDrinker wrote:

Piranha wrote:
I did ordered the new Infinity book in the end of August. So far no news from them ... !!!

luckily the distributor sent extras out to other shops in the UK - so if you're fast you can probably still grab the Ltd Edition mini as well. I've heard there should be some at the Warfare show in Reading

Dude has a Bulgarian flaggy, so somehow the chances seem small that he will be making the trip to the Warfare show in Reading

Is there an official post about them closing appear in the last few hours ?

Havent seen anything confirming it.

I think the event that lead to MG's demise was probably the GW rest of world embargo. It just moved purchasing from those areas away from Maelstrom and onto ebay.

When times were good, Maelstrom was great. When times got tough, they got really bad.

Local stores seem to survive or fail more on what they do than on what an online discounter does. For example, one local store uses the Warstore as a distributor and tells people that they can get anything that's on the Warstore's website. Only they don't discount. And people still do tons of special orders through the local store. Why wouldn't they just order from the Warstore directly and save money? The store offers good gaming space, terrain, organized events, great customer service, etc.,. There's actually value added there that no online discounter can touch.

Valiant wrote:

Is there an official post about them closing appear in the last few hours ?

Havent seen anything confirming it.

There is nothing on the bankruptcy register that says they have gone bankrupt, it is the weekend though

"Maelstrom Games has closed down."
http://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Star-Military-Figures/218634441498799

Hear say until it is confirmed via offical channels

I hope for their sake they are closing down because if by some chance they wasnt they will have no respect or good will left in the war gaming community!

I think part of the issue probably stems from the free postage and the fact the model seemed to be based on making money of the large orders, including those international ones that GW clamped down on.

If you look at a blister with an RRP of 12.50, the cost to Maelstrom pre-vat would be £6.77 their vat registered so they can claim the vat back, but still have to charge it on the sale.

So they discount 10% selling it for £11.25, vat of £1.85, so their profit margin before postage, packaging, labor, etc, is 9.4-6.77 = 2.63

Now to post a blister in the uk 2nd class packet rate, with franked mail discount is £2.20

So that leaves them £0.43 to cover labor, profit, packing materials etc.

Now my maths is only approximate on the vat side, but you can see that as a store offering free postage on small orders is risky, and this was just a 10% discount, they frequently ran 16-18.

I guess the model they were aiming for was based on large orders, but i know alot of people that would use them just to pick up a blister or 2 because of the free postage.

MarkyMark wrote:

Valiant wrote:

Is there an official post about them closing appear in the last few hours ?

Havent seen anything confirming it.

There is nothing on the bankruptcy register that says they have gone bankrupt, it is the weekend though

They won't show up on there as a limited co (I'm guessing you mean the insolvency service) Need to check companys house, which takes forever to be changed, or the london gazette. If they went on Friday It may be in Mondays issue.

I suspect they have gone. They are showing all the signs. I am not working Monday so I may do a bit of digging.

 notprop wrote:
EotS was a continuation of the MG registration if that continues to be the case then it's quite possible that the administrators will want to loo at taking possession of anything and everything on those premises (so don't leave anything here and label it as yours).

I understood it to now be under another name rather than EotS.

Maunsfield Gaming operating as Eye of the Storm.

This is very sad news.
It was the 1st time I ordered something from them.
And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

I really hope I can get it back, I have to save 6 months in order to buy a small box of miniatures due to my sickness :(

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Log in to your PayPal Account and raise a DISPUTE, then immediately escalate to a CLAIM.

You have to lodge a Dispute within 45 days of making the payment, and and then escalate that to a Claim within 20 days of raising the Dispute - but in this case just escalate immediately.

I don't imagine it should take too long.

I ordered from Maelstrom on 20th September not realising they were in trouble, lodged a Dispute on 23rd October (STILL not realising they were in trouble BTW) which I immediately escalated to a Claim.

The last time I did this (with another company) the company responded within 24 hours (they don't like to lose their PayPal facility I suspect).

In this case when I checked the Resolution Centre on my PayPal acount they were still waiting for a reply from Maelstrom which is when I started digging and immediately found out the issues.

I got my money back into my PayPal account yesterday - literally minutes after the cut-off point for the company to respond (which obviously they wouldn't have!)

I suppose I should have got suspicious when I couldn't get an answer on the phone or an e-mail reply from Maelstrom - but as I kept getting e-mails from Maelstrom about their warehouse move I initially asumed it was just an organisational thing, (and I'd had stuff from them before) - not that they were running a ponzi scheme.

Rob Lane and Eye of the Storm can forget about EVER getting my custom.

FWIW I have now amended my purchasing rules:

Anything over £100 - its on the Credit (not Debit) Card - UK Section 75 protection (which I have used in the past with total success)

Anything under £100 - Credit Card or PayPal

Cash only if I have the goods in my hand

Cheques - never

Debit Card - never

Goods not with me in 28 days - automatically request a refund within 7 days - no answer then raise a PayPal Dispute or Contact my Credit Card company.

Also I now check the internet for rumours before buying from any company!

That will be a problem, I ordered it on September 1st.
I made a dispute and escalated it to a claim, but it says the claim is closed.
And I can't make a new dispute.
Bummer :(

Anyway, thanks Vorlon25!

And to be clear EOTS is actually the same company?

imrail wrote:

Bummer :(

And to be clear EOTS is actually the same company?

Not exactly - it's a "new" company legally - but with the same people in the same building with the same phone number (iirc) and probably the same stock including the items you paid for.

I suspect some people have already referred them to Trading Standards because if it can be shown they were continuing to take money for items they knew they couldn't deliver I think that's fraud (any lawyers here?)

You might still be able to get your money back - it depends on how you transfer funds into your PayPal account as that is just a conduit for the funds so you might still be able to claim via your bank/credit card company - but I'm afraid I know even less about Dutch consumer protection than I do about the UK!!

EOTS isn't the same company. But it's run by the same people, in the same location, using the same online shop but with a different name.

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

imrail wrote:
That will be a problem, I ordered it on September 1st.
I made a dispute and escalated it to a claim, but it says the claim is closed.
And I can't make a new dispute.
Bummer :(

Anyway, thanks Vorlon25!

And to be clear EOTS is actually the same company?

You can also try directling contacting your Bank and try them to charge Maelstrom back.

Hi there,
This is the first time I am posting but have been following everyone's comments since Sept this year on this blog.

Firstly I would like to say that if it was not for Maelstorm (MS) commenting about their negative press at the start of one of their discount offer emails (FoW @ 20% off) a few weeks ago, I would not have even looked at this site and would not have ralised the issues that have been plaguing everyone. I only discovered MS this year when I got into FoW and placed a few orders to test them out. During this time, I made to large orders (>300 pounds each time). It was only after the second large order that I read what is being listed in this forum.
I
Anyway to the point, both orders have taken longer than expected (>6 weeks). First package arrived with a couple of blister packs opened but otherwise complete. They sent replacements within 2 weeks which I was surprised. This was the reason for placing the second big order. After placing this and seeing all the negative comments, followed but all the discount offers, I was tempted several time to cash in but elected not to. I did not think the discounts justified the risk of placing further order with them.

Although I do not agree with the method/way in which MS has handled this whole affair and with this many disgrunted customers, they should have nipped this in the butt before it has become what it has with a lot of loyal customers swearing them off in the future. As the week dragged on, I was concerned about my order. 2 weeks ago, received 90% of my shipment with the last 10% advised as being out of stock. The last 10% finally arrived this friday. Why I am say this is that, yes, there are a lot of bad practices or examples of non delivery by MS but also felt a need to to list a few good or fortunate stories to offer a balanced view for MS. It is not to justify or condone their customer service these trying weeks but to hopefully say that there is still the very small chance they will still come good.

We all have some other war stroies but seems MS is at the forefront at this time. Had similar bad delivery experiences with Wayland Games (over 6 weeks and limited feedback into status) and no communication as to what is the status of out of stock items. However Wayland (so far) has sent thru all my orders like MS and eventually refunded me out of stock items even though it was not communicated. Really trying to say that internet sale companies are bad with communication because it is always so easy to send off emails but it takes a lot of time to read them so replies are often slow or lacking.

Anyway, with all this rambling, just want to say I hope the best for everyone and hope MS makes good their commitment. I only suggest everyone be cautions with internet sale companies in the future, no matter how good they have been in the past. Circumstances change any maybe the best is to spread your risk with different stores or drop into a physical store.

SeanDrake wrote:

"Maelstrom Games has closed down."
http://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Star-Military-Figures/218634441498799

Taken from a post on warseer but that is another of there suppliers who states he has been advised by maelstrom that they are closed.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

What do you mean mate? If you are referring to Maelstrom being able to undercut local FLGS in Aus was more to do with GW sticking to out of date exchange rates, and hence why now people in that part of the world are sold for more than double the price of the UK. If GW sold their minis in Aus at a rate that was comparable to the UK, and in fact behave as every other wargaming manufacturer does, then they wouldn't have had a problem. And their discounts weren't really anything more than those offered by a dozen other wargaming retailers that you could mention.

I think the event that lead to MG's demise was probably the GW rest of world embargo. It just moved purchasing from those areas away from Maelstrom and onto ebay.

I've heard it was more to do with too much money being taken out of the company. Then, when you hit a bad time economically or have a big expenditure, things rapidly go south.

There are a couple of online retailers who don't even sell GW mail order any more, because they can't cope with the number of Finecast returns - Dark Sphere most recently, but also Wayland for a time. The bigger retailers probably have enough depth of field that the GW embargo might have hurt them a bit, but not mortally wounded.

Steve steveson wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

From my experience, you do still get your money back from paypal even if the seller has no credit, the offenders paypal balance can go into the negative in such circumstances.
So you should still be good to get your money back from paypal is its a legal claim.

 Pacific wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

What do you mean mate? If you are referring to Maelstrom being able to undercut local FLGS in Aus was more to do with GW sticking to out of date exchange rates, and hence why now people in that part of the world are sold for more than double the price of the UK. If GW sold their minis in Aus at a rate that was comparable to the UK, and in fact behave as every other wargaming manufacturer does, then they wouldn't have had a problem. And their discounts weren't really anything more than those offered by a dozen other wargaming retailers that you could mention.

He's going on and on again about the 17% and 20% off sales. While they may have been common enough (every few months) what he doesn't really seem to understand is that even UKRRP (without 10% off) is significantly cheaper than GWAU prices, so if you wanted something, you really didn't bother waiting for the next sale to roll around for GW product. Most other stuff is also somewhat gougey in Australian retail, so I still buy most things from overseas, with the exception of stuff I can get from a local internet discounter, which works well for heavy stuff like FFG boxed games and even a good chunk of FoW - prices comparable enough to UK 10% retailers.

I've send an email to PayPal asking for guidance on how to continue.

I'll call my bank tomorrow to see if they can help me.

And I'll let you know if anything happens.
Thanks again people!

imrail wrote:
I've send an email to PayPal asking for guidance on how to continue.

I'll call my bank tomorrow to see if they can help me.

And I'll let you know if anything happens.
Thanks again people!

No problem, I for one know that money is hard to come by and losing it because someone else scammed you is sad.

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

From my experience, you do still get your money back from paypal even if the seller has no credit, the offenders paypal balance can go into the negative in such circumstances.
So you should still be good to get your money back from paypal is its a legal claim.

But if they go in to administration paypal will not be to take the money back, and the problem is that paypal won't pay out if they don't think they can get the money. They won't willingly take the loss according to what people have said about them not being willing to hand back money elsewhere (i can only asume that this has been when paypal have felt they would never be able to recover a balance).

Someone in administration is very diffrent to someone with a negative paypal balance. There T&Cs don't seem to say much about it, but I would guess that it might be very difficult. Make sure if your putting a claim in you put it in ASAP. They may not go under, but it dosn't look good.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

From my experience, you do still get your money back from paypal even if the seller has no credit, the offenders paypal balance can go into the negative in such circumstances.
So you should still be good to get your money back from paypal is its a legal claim.

But if they go in to administration paypal will not be to take the money back, and the problem is that paypal won't pay out if they don't think they can get the money. They won't willingly take the loss according to what people have said about them not being willing to hand back money elsewhere (i can only asume that this has been when paypal have felt they would never be able to recover a balance).

Someone in administration is very diffrent to someone with a negative paypal balance. There T&Cs don't seem to say much about it, but I would guess that it might be very difficult. Make sure if your putting a claim in you put it in ASAP. They may not go under, but it dosn't look good.

Actually Paypal changed the buyer guarantee, they do cover all buyers who go via their system, i suspect theu either have new insurance to cover it, or they just work on the basis that they make so much on the commission payments they can cover the losses of the small number of companies that go under.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference (btw this for uk paypal, it may or may not differ depending on the country your account is held in)

How am I covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection?
If you pay for an item using PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase, we will help to protect you. If you pay for an item through PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase we will look to cover you for the full amount (including postage) in the event that:

• You don’t receive the item
• You receive an item but it is significantly different than the description

Valiant wrote:


Actually Paypal changed the buyer guarantee, they do cover all buyers who go via their system, i suspect theu either have new insurance to cover it, or they just work on the basis that they make so much on the commission payments they can cover the losses of the small number of companies that go under.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference (btw this for uk paypal, it may or may not differ depending on the country your account is held in)

How am I covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection?
If you pay for an item using PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase, we will help to protect you. If you pay for an item through PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase we will look to cover you for the full amount (including postage) in the event that:

• You don’t receive the item
• You receive an item but it is significantly different than the description

Ah good. Glad to hear it! They are no longer syaing "we are just a processing agent" like they used to. I wonder if this is anything to do with the criticism they were getting for acting like a bank without being regulated as a bank...

SoulDrinker wrote:

Piranha wrote:
I did ordered the new Infinity book in the end of August. So far no news from them ... !!!



luckily the distributor sent extras out to other shops in the UK - so if you're fast you can probably still grab the Ltd Edition mini as well. I've heard there should be some at the Warfare show in Reading



Dude has a Bulgarian flaggy, so somehow the chances seem small that he will be making the trip to the Warfare show in Reading

I did ordered the book with limited edition miniature again from Wayland and I will have it soon in my hands. Not sure about the money that gave to Maelstriom tought.

Going to my bank after uni tomorrow, couldnt get through to the right person over the phone so might aswell go down. It just really annoys me knowing that nothing can be done to them or that its not even them giving me my money back. Scum.

I'm not going to believe anything until Maelstrom Games comes out an makes an official statement.

 Far Seer wrote:
I'm not going to believe anything until Maelstrom Games comes out an makes an official statement.

Have you read none of this thread? Not even the last page? Really.

Maelstrom Games have closed, shut down, are no more.

The owners / creditors have registered a new webstore 'Eye of the Storm'.

I contacted my bank last week and I made a claim of my money back. Hope that it wasn't too late ...

Is it indicative of the ridiculous state of British consumer law now that an individual can 'do a runner' by staying in exactly the same place and doing exactly the same thing, having done nothing but slightly change the name? Or inherent foolishness on the part of the scammer in not actually making any sensible attempt to leave the crime scene?

You wouldn't steal a car and stay parked outside the owners house...

This is posted over on Warseer:

Maelstrom has shut down. A new company called Maunsfield Gaming is picking up the pieces and will be online in a week or two. They will also run what was EOTS.

I've heard that Maelstrom got into financial difficulties, but was managing with a repayment plan. The debt was sold on, and the purchaser called in the debt, a lot of money. MG couldn't pay this money... what will happen next, who knows. There's more to the story than this too I'm lead to believe, but as the BBC would say, I can't prove it......[

*shrug* might be true, might not, but I think any 'new' company that emerges from this is really going to struggle to attract customers, or garner any goodwill among the wargaming community.

 Far Seer wrote:
I'm not going to believe anything until Maelstrom Games comes out an makes an official statement.

If Maesltrom are bust or closed then you won't hear a statement from them.

if this thread is anything to go by, if they are still trading (ha!) then they won't put out any statement.

TL: DR

There will be no statement from Maelstrom.

You may get one from an exciting new company called Maunsfield though!

EOTS could make a statement that they are picking up old MG outstanding orders and will be handling their delivery. Given that the EOTS registration system is 1:1 to what the MG had, that would not be that much difficult. I wonder if MG site is shut down for this purpose? It might sound over-optimistic, but MG could simply turn off their site and we would be getting the standard 404 page not found screen instead of "being under maintainance". Currently, I tried to log into EOTS with my MG details and it did not work.

CainTheHunter wrote:
EOTS could make a statement that they are picking up old MG outstanding orders and will be handling their delivery. Given that the EOTS registration system is 1:1 to what the MG had, that would not be that much difficult. I wonder if MG site is shut down for this purpose? It might sound over-optimistic, but MG could simply turn off their site and we would be getting the standard 404 page not found screen instead of "being under maintainance". Currently, I tried to log into EOTS with my MG details and it did not work.

It did not work because they are different companies and the client database will not migrate from one to the other.

Also don't hold your breath on EotS picking up old MG orders. EotS was setup so that it could start with a "clean slate" so to speak, they will no more pick up MG outstanding orders than they will pickup MG outstanding debts to suppliers... i.e. not at all...

Time to go check the FLGS prices again...

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
This is posted over on Warseer:

Maelstrom has shut down. A new company called Maunsfield Gaming is picking up the pieces and will be online in a week or two. They will also run what was EOTS.

I've heard that Maelstrom got into financial difficulties, but was managing with a repayment plan. The debt was sold on, and the purchaser called in the debt, a lot of money. MG couldn't pay this money... what will happen next, who knows. There's more to the story than this too I'm lead to believe, but as the BBC would say, I can't prove it......[

*shrug* might be true, might not, but I think any 'new' company that emerges from this is really going to struggle to attract customers, or garner any goodwill among the wargaming community.

I don't buy that - if he was actually making repayments then surely it wouldn't have been such an issue - sounds more like he failed to make repayments and the company then decided to act. If you are a creditor and your debt is being paid then you keep taking the cash, however it the payments stop coming in and you know the debtor is in a hole then you act ...before it's too late........ I wonder if it was too late?

I don't buy that - if he was actually making repayments then surely it wouldn't have been such an issue - sounds more like he failed to make repayments and the company then decided to act. If you are a creditor and your debt is being paid then you keep taking the cash, however it the payments stop coming in and you know the debtor is in a hole then you act ...before it's too late........ I wonder if it was too late?

Sadly banks and other firms that handle debt do it all the time.

A repayment plan is worked out, and is being kept to but then something changes and the debt is called in, could be the repayments weren't being met,

but it could have been the bank etc just wanted to clear their books, or felt selling the companies assets would provide a short term boost to meet a profit target, or they might have heard a separate debt was being called in and paniced

True..... likely that if someone owed me a small fortune and stopped making repayments I'd probably kick them into touch too! (or just give them a kicking)

I can't believe the number of people who are supporting Eye of the Storm. It is a company run by the very people who ripped a lot of gamers at MG.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
If Maesltrom are bust or closed then you won't hear a statement from them.

if this thread is anything to go by, if they are still trading (ha!) then they won't put out any statement.

TL: DR

There will be no statement from Maelstrom.

You may get one from an exciting new company called Maunsfield though!

Did you really just use "TL: DR" to refer to a two line post?

I've had an outstanding order with maelstrom since august for a dark vengeance set. Am starting to worry about my 50 pounds at the moment. Should i contact paypall about a chargeback?

chrisjuuuh wrote:
I've had an outstanding order with maelstrom since august for a dark vengeance set. Am starting to worry about my 50 pounds at the moment. Should i contact paypall about a chargeback?

Absolutely. And do it immediately, as should anyone else.

This is a classic move whereby a company jetisons it's debts and tries to stay open under a different name. In no way will they honor any orders by Maelstrom. They will keep up the illusion of different company, different people, etc.

 mikhaila wrote:

chrisjuuuh wrote:
I've had an outstanding order with maelstrom since august for a dark vengeance set. Am starting to worry about my 50 pounds at the moment. Should i contact paypall about a chargeback?

Absolutely. And do it immediately, as should anyone else.

This is a classic move whereby a company jetisons it's debts and tries to stay open under a different name. In no way will they honor any orders by Maelstrom. They will keep up the illusion of different company, different people, etc.

I would also advice you do to so, but I don't know if a refund is still possible, since paypal states you should file a complaint within 45 days of transaction.

Luckily I found that out in time (35 days after order date) and I'm awaiting what paypal will tell me (and if they will refund).

I often wonder how these telesales companies offering to take up your PPI claims, change your electricity supplier etc manage to get enough customers to keep going ... and then I see the posts on here from people who still think putting new orders in at Maelstrom is a good idea and if they were going bust then I'm sure they would have said so on their website.

Now, if any of you have had an accident at work or in your car why not text CLAIM to 88326 ... [that's a joke by the way]

I lost patience with Maelstrom when they shut the online store on Saturday without any communication and I initiated a charge back this morning - luckily I have 120 days to file a charge back as they were not in a position to fulfill the order when I placed it. I placed an order on the 3rd of September for an item that had to be ordered in and I was prepared to give them time to complete the order (which I now realise was never going to happen as the manufacturer won't deal with them and isn't supplying EoTS either) however they have ignored all contact from me - which was largely sent just in case so that I could prove to the credit card company that I had tried to resolve the issue with Maelstrom. I've spent 1,000s of pounds over the years with Maelstrom and the order is only for £62 but it's the principle of the thing I will never have anything to do with any company linked to them again after this.

paypall has closed my claim as it was payed for more than 45 days ago. DaveC could you explain how come you have 130 days to claim? The purchase i made was a preorder. not sure if this helps me at all. any help would be appreciated.

You need to have used a credit card.

bugger....my paypall is directly linked to my bank account so it just gets transferred straight out and over. any point in me going down to my bank tomorrow to see if they can help me at all?

Yep Credit Card if a supplier is not in position to fulfill the order when you place it and they have to order it in for delivery at a later date you get up to 120 days to apply for a charge back.

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
This is posted over on Warseer:

Maelstrom has shut down. A new company called Maunsfield Gaming is picking up the pieces and will be online in a week or two. They will also run what was EOTS.

I've heard that Maelstrom got into financial difficulties, but was managing with a repayment plan. The debt was sold on, and the purchaser called in the debt, a lot of money. MG couldn't pay this money... what will happen next, who knows. There's more to the story than this too I'm lead to believe, but as the BBC would say, I can't prove it......[

*shrug* might be true, might not, but I think any 'new' company that emerges from this is really going to struggle to attract customers, or garner any goodwill among the wargaming community.

I would buy from them tomorrow if they had the same prices and free shipping to North America (well, assuming I needed anything at the moment, which I do not).

Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

Altruizine wrote:

I would buy from them tomorrow if they had the same prices and free shipping to North America (well, assuming I needed anything at the moment, which I do not).

Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

Even if ethics weren't a factor, there's very practical reasons not to order from Eye of the Storm--we know it's run by the sort of people who see nothing wrong with cheating loyal customers out of their money and exploiting their goodwill.

Altruizine wrote:
Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

O_O

You are not serious are you?

Can't a bunch of people gang up and take them to court, like what some people did with mcdonalds some years ago (but this time with an actual good reason)?

Yes I know nothing about law but I would thnk that the owner could be held accountable if he has 2 companies still running doing much the same thing.

Altruizine wrote:

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
This is posted over on Warseer:

Maelstrom has shut down. A new company called Maunsfield Gaming is picking up the pieces and will be online in a week or two. They will also run what was EOTS.

I've heard that Maelstrom got into financial difficulties, but was managing with a repayment plan. The debt was sold on, and the purchaser called in the debt, a lot of money. MG couldn't pay this money... what will happen next, who knows. There's more to the story than this too I'm lead to believe, but as the BBC would say, I can't prove it......[

*shrug* might be true, might not, but I think any 'new' company that emerges from this is really going to struggle to attract customers, or garner any goodwill among the wargaming community.

I would buy from them tomorrow if they had the same prices and free shipping to North America (well, assuming I needed anything at the moment, which I do not).

Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

So you would seriously buy from people who have a track record of ripping off large numbers of customers? Interesting to say the least.

 maxxev wrote:
Can't a bunch of people gang up and take them to court, like what some people did with mcdonalds some years ago (but this time with an actual good reason)?

Yes I know nothing about law but I would thnk that the owner could be held accountable if he has 2 companies still running doing much the same thing.

It would all depend on whether the companies were 'linked'

If maelstrom that was 'gave' EOTS the building and a bunch of stock for little or nothing the administrators will probably be able to grab it back (and the business owner may be prosecutable)

If however EOTS paid a 'reasonable' sum for the building and any stock transfered then it would probably be safe.

It will all depend on the circumstances.

As has been mentioned above somewhere any EOTS gamers with terrain/stuff etc in the shop should remove it just in case... If it did go down to you'd need to able able to PROVE it was yours to get it back (and even then it might take a fair while)... And don't go buying anthing that's not in stock, tickets for events happening later or gift vouchers either just in case


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 maxxev wrote:
Can't a bunch of people gang up and take them to court, like what some people did with mcdonalds some years ago (but this time with an actual good reason)?

Yes I know nothing about law but I would thnk that the owner could be held accountable if he has 2 companies still running doing much the same thing.

It would all depend on whether the companies were 'linked'

If maelstrom that was 'gave' EOTS the building and a bunch of stock for little or nothing the administrators will probably be able to grab it back (and the business owner may be prosecutable)

If however EOTS paid a 'reasonable' sum for the building and any stock transfered then it would probably be safe.

It will all depend on the circumstances.

As has been mentioned above somewhere any EOTS gamers with terrain/stuff etc in the shop should remove it just in case... If it did go down to you'd need to able able to PROVE it was yours to get it back (and even then it might take a fair while)...

And don't go buying anthing that's not in stock, tickets for events happening later or gift vouchers either just in case

This should be a lesson to everyone who waited and waited:

If you order something and it doesn't arrive in a timely fashion, start a paypal claim within the 45 days even if they have reassured you that it has shipped or will ship soon, will arrive soon, etc.,. The worst case scenario is that you get your product and you simply cancel the dispute.

After around 30 days, you need to start thinking about doing this. If a seller doesn't like it and tells you they'll either process your refund or ship you the goods once you close the dispute don't do it. Having a dispute open does not prevent the seller from the doing the right thing.

Once, I had a few items missing from an order with an eBay seller and I let them talk me into waiting for the replacement items to ship. They did their best to reassure me and delay me until the 45 days passed and then that was it. The items never arrived and I had no recourse.

Altruizine wrote:

Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

Welcome to my world! As a loyal GW customer from 1992 to 2010, I will now only purchase GW products second-hand so that they do not ever directly receive a penny from me.

A look at the info here should make clear just who has taken over. Maelstrom, Maunsfield, Penda, EOTS, Mierce, Anglia.

Take your pick, they all have the same Director. So for someone here or on Warseer to say that anyone is "picking up the pieces" is at best naive and at worst misleading.

Pic through this little lot:
https://www.duedil.com/director/908908730/robert-lane

Isn't it ironic that all that customer money disappeared in a Maelstrom
The name should have been a warning:

Gosoul wrote:
they should have nipped this in the butt

Yikes.

One slight positive, from all of this. I heard that they owed a lot of money to one of the main (the main?) distributor in the UK. The amount owed, if not paid, would have almost certainly finished off that distributor, which in turn would have had serious ramifications for lots of other retailers in the UK (and perhaps the EU) who relied on that supplier. (Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name).

It's absolutely terrible that this has happened - as I've said before, inexcusable, and the new retailer deserves no patronage from the wargaming community if the company's failure was (as has been rumoured) entirely down to their own mismanagement rather than external, unavoidable factors.

However, the damage could have been even worse and I guess the wargaming industry in the UK is a little bit fortunate in that regard. And, as I have said, the new EOTS or whatever the hell they call themselves deserve nothing but scorn at best, and really outright belligerence.

Altruizine wrote:

I would buy from them tomorrow if they had the same prices and free shipping to North America (well, assuming I needed anything at the moment, which I do not).
Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

When there are numerous other companies that offer the same prices and shipping to the US, this attitude makes no sense at all.
Here's a couple. they're not a secret.

Firestorm Games
The Troll Trader
Triple Helix Wargmes

Wayland games also offers free shipping from time to time.

Contacted my card company about filing a chargeback against Maelstrom. It's not a credit card, it's a prepaid visa that you fill up with money whenever you want, but I hope it works.

brettz123 wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
This is posted over on Warseer:

Maelstrom has shut down. A new company called Maunsfield Gaming is picking up the pieces and will be online in a week or two. They will also run what was EOTS.

I've heard that Maelstrom got into financial difficulties, but was managing with a repayment plan. The debt was sold on, and the purchaser called in the debt, a lot of money. MG couldn't pay this money... what will happen next, who knows. There's more to the story than this too I'm lead to believe, but as the BBC would say, I can't prove it......[

*shrug* might be true, might not, but I think any 'new' company that emerges from this is really going to struggle to attract customers, or garner any goodwill among the wargaming community.

I would buy from them tomorrow if they had the same prices and free shipping to North America (well, assuming I needed anything at the moment, which I do not).

Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

So you would seriously buy from people who have a track record of ripping off large numbers of customers? Interesting to say the least.

I'd speculate that most (if not all) of the people who were ripped off could have come away scot-free if they had only been better informed about their refund options (and the associated time limits) via Paypal or credit card. In light of that, I'm confident that I would be able to avoid any permanent loss dealing with any new company (so long as they are taking the same forms of payment).

So, yeah, I'd order from a hypothetical offshoot of Maelstrom (once they had been established for a while, and it was known that they weren't simply an outright criminal scam or whatever). I would probably refrain from making any huge orders, or any very far-in-advance preorders, but overall I'd feel comfortable buying from them.

Mierce Miniatures are great, btw, so I will probably actually have to buy from a Maelstrom-connected company at some point in the future (if they release any more minis that I can use in my armies, that is).

 scipio.au wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

I would buy from them tomorrow if they had the same prices and free shipping to North America (well, assuming I needed anything at the moment, which I do not).
Wargaming is not really the arena to make an ethical stand as a consumer. If it was, we would all have boycotted GW products several years ago.

When there are numerous other companies that offer the same prices and shipping to the US, this attitude makes no sense at all.
Here's a couple. they're not a secret.

Firestorm Games
The Troll Trader
Triple Helix Wargmes

Wayland games also offers free shipping from time to time.

I haven't heard of any of those companies, but I would definitely default to one of them over a Maelstrom offshoot if everything else was equal. It's the FREE shipping that's important to me, though, not just willingness to ship outside of the UK. I don't like paying postage because it usually kills the discount.

Most everything else is equal. Google them and have a look for yourself. The main difference is a limitation on large/bulky items and/or 2kg/item shipping, as it's a Royal Mail thing.
Being that you're in the US, you also have an excellent free shipping option from Miniature Market, who also offers nice discounts and great customer service.

Also, check out the "Retailers Giving the Cake" thread for recommendations.


If there's been one positive thing for me out of this whole debacle, it's that I've found some other damned good retailers.

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

For the time being perhaps, but if they have paid their bills then of course those suppliers will return to them in time. Unfortunately Maelstrom being one of the major retailers in the UK, and the sales they represent, will be more important than any issues over what they have done being right or wrong.

Like you say though it could be a cash flow problem or they are just getting accounts sorted out again.

Depends... If they have caused as much of a problem to the suppliers as the customers then they may not be given credit for a long time. Yes, in theory they will eventualy, but how long will they last with no stock or on CWO.

My information is that they will not be supplied now or in the future. If suppliers have been burned they won't line up for a second kicking. As for Maelstrom being one of the major retailers, well they are not now.

There are plenty of other retailers to take up the slack so suppliers have no reason to deal with MailStorm or any of its sons of dubious parentage.

As for paying suppliers, Graham at Simple Miniatures, who supplied Spartan, PP and other stuff to MG said in a post on the Wyrd Miniatures site (which is linked on here somewhere) that MG's debt to Simple had been sold on to debt collectors, presumably because he had no confidence he would ever get anything so settled for a much smaller sum in certainty and wrote off the rest.

So now we wait...for it to happen again. MG's business model was flawed.

Turnover is indeed vanity.

For a cashback in Belgium you need a signed document of the store -_- fething slowed country I live in.

Lost about 150£ , when I ordered everything was in stock, it was even before the SALES darn it :(

 Pacific wrote:
One slight positive, from all of this. I heard that they owed a lot of money to one of the main (the main?) distributor in the UK. The amount owed, if not paid, would have almost certainly finished off that distributor, which in turn would have had serious ramifications for lots of other retailers in the UK (and perhaps the EU) who relied on that supplier. (Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name).

It's absolutely terrible that this has happened - as I've said before, inexcusable, and the new retailer deserves no patronage from the wargaming community if the company's failure was (as has been rumoured) entirely down to their own mismanagement rather than external, unavoidable factors.

However, the damage could have been even worse and I guess the wargaming industry in the UK is a little bit fortunate in that regard. And, as I have said, the new EOTS or whatever the hell they call themselves deserve nothing but scorn at best, and really outright belligerence.

From what I've heard and from what i can see the distributor Simple Miniatures is doing fine, they are always busy running round packing orders whenever I've been into their little shop (I go in once a month ...or twice ....or more for my Infinity / Malifaux "fix") From what' Graham has said recently their OK as there are lots of new shops opening up (woo-hoo!!! ) in the UK and more European stores are starting stocking Malifaux so they are nice & busy. I couldn't get much out of him really (apart from MG had finally taken the biscuit and wasn't paying!) was that Simple miniatures didn't have any debts as he was cautious in building his business and was still ordering the same sort of quantities from Manufacturers so wasn't concerned from himself, although they were clearly hacked off at how MG had behaved and what they would lose. The selling off of the debt was the last and only option left to them which was mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere.

So I guess the good news is that we have plenty of stores in the UK who are selling in all the stock MG used to sell - so there's no need to bother with the new EOTS/maunsfeld/whoever games if you don't want to. there's no way Simple will be supplying any of them and I can't see others doing it either.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

It's still not out of the question that the deals that transferred assets to Maunsfield and Mierce might be unwound, if it's found that they didn't pay a market rate. That makes dealing with the new companies risky, even without the fact that people might not want to do business with the same management.

For those of you waiting on paypal refunds, i received a full refund of £157 today from paypal, a nice surprise.

WPB wrote:
For those of you waiting on paypal refunds, i received a full refund of £157 today from paypal, a nice surprise.

Good for you
Did you do everything in the x amount of days period?

 devilution wrote:
For a cashback in Belgium you need a signed document of the store -_- fething slowed country I live in.

Lost about 150£ , when I ordered everything was in stock, it was even before the SALES darn it :(

Try to explain to Your bank that in 21st century You NEVER get a SIGNED invoice of anything when buying things on internet. Maximum You might have is an electronic invoice specifying seller, addressee, postal details and the amount charged. The rest goes via i-banking transfers which should be available to Your bank anyways. If they keep insisting, complain to higher ranking bank officials or the Belgian authority, responsible for monitoring the financial and credit institutions - or mention to the bank that You will call those authorities next.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

He is talking about the online site, not the physical store.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

He is talking about the online site, not the physical store.

From what I gather, EotS is not an online retailer, and gets a better deal from GW direct than it would as an online retailer (which has to use a distributor)*. I'm assuming another site (maunsfield?) will take over the online sales.

*According to Maelstrom staff in August. I wouldn't be surprised if GW aren't stocking them on as liberal credit terms now though.

Herzlos wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

He is talking about the online site, not the physical store.

From what I gather, EotS is not an online retailer, and gets a better deal from GW direct than it would as an online retailer (which has to use a distributor)*. I'm assuming another site (maunsfield?) will take over the online sales.

*According to Maelstrom staff in August. I wouldn't be surprised if GW aren't stocking them on as liberal credit terms now though.

There you go: http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/

For someone that isn't an online retailer, their site sure as Hades looks like one...

PhantomViper wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

He is talking about the online site, not the physical store.

From what I gather, EotS is not an online retailer, and gets a better deal from GW direct than it would as an online retailer (which has to use a distributor)*. I'm assuming another site (maunsfield?) will take over the online sales.

*According to Maelstrom staff in August. I wouldn't be surprised if GW aren't stocking them on as liberal credit terms now though.

There you go: http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/

For someone that isn't an online retailer, their site sure as Hades looks like one...

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

I am not defending him, i have used them a lot in the past, got my stuff quickly and never had any problems but due to hearing from all these people on Dakka that have been ripped off by them, i will take my custom elsewhere now.

This is who i have been using as of late

Gifts for Geeks

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

Hmmm, amongst other people, you are actually...

The Maelstrom site also used to have a physical presence as well, until they changed that physical presence's name to... EotS... funny coincidence, isn't it?

EotS has the same manager, the same fiscal address, even the same phone number that Maelstrom used to have, trying to claim that they are not the same is nothing but intellectual dishonesty!

EotS was created so that Rob Lane could default on all the debts that Maelstrom used to have and in the process steal from probably dozens of gamers who have made orders with Maelstrom only to now see the company disappear without a trace, to be replaced by EotS... another funny coincidence...

imrail wrote:

WPB wrote:
For those of you waiting on paypal refunds, i received a full refund of £157 today from paypal, a nice surprise.

Good for you
Did you do everything in the x amount of days period?

Yes, i claimed after about 3 weeks so still within the time limit.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

Hmmm, amongst other people, you are actually...

The Maelstrom site also used to have a physical presence as well, until they changed that physical presence's name to... EotS... funny coincidence, isn't it?

EotS has the same manager, the same fiscal address, even the same phone number that Maelstrom used to have, trying to claim that they are not the same is nothing but intellectual dishonesty!

EotS was created so that Rob Lane could default on all the debts that Maelstrom used to have and in the process steal from probably dozens of gamers who have made orders with Maelstrom only to now see the company disappear without a trace, to be replaced by EotS... another funny coincidence...

I think you should check my previous posts on the subject of Maelstroms shady practices and the delight that is Rob (the next Alan Sugar) Lane. I have posted fact and my assumptions. If that makes me a Maelstrom supporter in your eyes then so be it.

EDIt:

Spelling dishonesty!

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I think you should check my previous posts on the subject of Maelstroms shady practices and the delight that is Rob (the next Alan Sugar) Lane. I have posted fact and my assumptions. If that makes me a Maelstrom supporter in your eyes then so be it.

I said that you seemed to be supporting EotS, and your latest post sound like you are saying that since EotS is a different company than Maelstrom, then they should deserve a clean slate. Unless there was a /sarcasm sign somewhere that I missed...

Not sure how you can discern between the two and more to the point, I'm not sure wargamers should be making a distinction between the two especially when it comes to their hard-earned cash. Once bitten, twice shy and all that....

Barring the name change, the websites are identical.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I think you should check my previous posts on the subject of Maelstroms shady practices and the delight that is Rob (the next Alan Sugar) Lane. I have posted fact and my assumptions. If that makes me a Maelstrom supporter in your eyes then so be it.

I said that you seemed to be supporting EotS, and your latest post sound like you are saying that since EotS is a different company than Maelstrom, then they should deserve a clean slate. Unless there was a /sarcasm sign somewhere that I missed...

It was the Alan Sugar thing......

I don't intended to spend with any of Rob lanes companies due to the clusterfeth that has seen numerous buyers out of pocket, even before the final final final final final (ad infinitum) sale at Maelstrom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 filbert wrote:
Not sure how you can discern between the two and more to the point, I'm not sure wargamers should be making a distinction between the two especially when it comes to their hard-earned cash. Once bitten, twice shy and all that....

Barring the name change, the websites are identical.

This in a nutshell.

What has been poor has been the lack of communication about the whole thing, Not that the companies need to notify us hobbyists of any changes they make, they should at least honestly communicate their intentions in the face of criticism.
Mierce and EOTS are off my shopping lists.

PhantomViper wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

He is talking about the online site, not the physical store.

From what I gather, EotS is not an online retailer, and gets a better deal from GW direct than it would as an online retailer (which has to use a distributor)*. I'm assuming another site (maunsfield?) will take over the online sales.

*According to Maelstrom staff in August. I wouldn't be surprised if GW aren't stocking them on as liberal credit terms now though.

There you go: http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/

For someone that isn't an online retailer, their site sure as Hades looks like one...

Like I said, my information is a few months and a disappearing company old.

As it stands now, it seems that the website and the physical store have different stock. The website has Warmachine, Hordes, FoW and Inifniti, whereas the physical shop also carries GW. The reason for that, based on my old information, is that GW provides a better discount for physical stores than online retailers, so for EotS to get that better deal they can't sell it online. I'm assuming that it's too lucrative a deal to give up on, so there will be a separate online entity at some point, with a separate account.

For the record; I was a big fan of Maelstrom, and defended them initially until the lack of communication and firesales happened (I did buy a lot from the firesales though), but the way they've dealt with things has been pretty poor and I'm unlikely to use any new online venture of theirs in future. I may, if I'm in the area, use the physical store and buy stuff I can take possession of immediately.

I know of several friends who all collected comics together. One of them bought a comic book store, and the others invested a few thousand each in it. Drinking and trips to see a long distance girlfriend added to some problems and the business went bankrupt. The guy running store went to his father, a lawyer. They declared bankruptcy.

Strangely, he actually tried to explain to his friends that HE didn't owe them money, the business did, and it was wiped clean, and that was that. He couldn't understand why they were angry with him.

While some people may claim EOTS is different from maelstrom, and legally it might be, it doesn't mean everyone will believe it.

A year or two after the bankruptcy, a couple of the 'old friends' beat the crap out of the guy that owed them money, and never talked to him again.

I'm curious to see who goes back to doing business with EOTS/Maelstrom.

The real differance (important one?) is that EotS has a differant registered address (in Leeds) to MG.

All of the similarities can be considered aesthetic similaries between a now defunct company and the new one that has taken over the patch.

Doesnt change he fact that the same schister is sitting behind both.

The only reason I can think of going to EotS is their gaming area but since TTN is now just down the road to me there is zero reason to bother with EotS.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I think you should check my previous posts on the subject of Maelstroms shady practices and the delight that is Rob (the next Alan Sugar) Lane. I have posted fact and my assumptions. If that makes me a Maelstrom supporter in your eyes then so be it.

I said that you seemed to be supporting EotS, and your latest post sound like you are saying that since EotS is a different company than Maelstrom, then they should deserve a clean slate. Unless there was a /sarcasm sign somewhere that I missed...

It was the Alan Sugar thing......

I don't intended to spend with any of Rob lanes companies due to the clusterfeth that has seen numerous buyers out of pocket, even before the final final final final final (ad infinitum) sale at Maelstrom.

Sorry about misunderstanding your post then...

I cannot beleive there are people still trying to defend this guy anyway heres my recent post on warseer in response to somone trying to blame his creditors and everyone other than the owner
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?218037-Maelstrom-Games-overview&p=6502003&viewfull=1#post6502003

 filbert wrote:
Not sure how you can discern between the two and more to the point, I'm not sure wargamers should be making a distinction between the two especially when it comes to their hard-earned cash. Once bitten, twice shy and all that....

Barring the name change, the websites are identical.

Yes right, absolutely not! The website looks identical. The name means the same thing. It would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that people have lost money over this.

We owe it as a wargaming community, and for the people who have lost money out of this/suppliers who have been unpaid, to give a rather large 2-finger salute to that store and warn people wherever possible not to use this company.

Sadly a lot of more casual purchasers and web buyers might well be unaware of how they go on, but still there is nothing to stop us sticking to purchasing principles.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

You miss the point. EotS WAS the physical venue for Maelstrom Games. It was the "physical presence" for Maelstrom before the companies split.

Questions that I would really like answers to in amongst this issue.

1. Why did Maelstrom continue to take money for pre orders they knew they could not fulfill due to being in too much debt to suppliers?
2. Why did Maelstrom not refund pre-orders once it was clear that they were not going to get stock to fulfil them?
3. Why did Maelstrom spend 8 months blaming a non existent warehouse delays for issues?
4. Why were Maelstrom able to send desperate sale emails everyday for 3 months but were unable to respond to any customer queries regarding missing money or goods?
5. If as suggested by Maelstroms own books they had effectively had £500000 of free stock based on trade prices and had been taking pre-order funds from customers for goods they never delivered along with the funds from the recent sales but the company was broke where is the money?
6. As Maelstrom were struggling so badly how did they afford to start production of their own line of miniatures and game while also undertaking renovation and extension of their bricks and mortar store?
7. The timing of the spin off of Mercie Miniatures and Maelstrom Store erm I mean the Eye of the Storm or Maunsfield Gaming as a believe it is this week worked out well for them was that intentional?
8. What is it called when someone takes payment for goods they do not have and are unable to get but does not return the funds or allows a 3rd party such as Paypal to pick up the bill?

Also anyone who has lost money or goods if you follow the link and fill out the form the Citizens Advice Bureau will look at the complaint and if warranted pass it to Maelstroms local trading standards I have already done this they confirmed while they could not directly help they would pass it on.
https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

This most likely would not get your money back but as the company as far as I can tell has not been officially wound up yet it may result in a full investigation I would suggest even non uk residents fill this in, also if you were one of the people who tried to request a refund but received no reply or refund then make sure you mention that as under uk law you legally have 14days from recept in which you can cancel an order nevermind before delivery.

The above post is awesome.

I wish I could exalt it several times...

 Compel wrote:
The above post is awesome.

I wish I could exalt it several times...

I exalted it for you.

Today, finally, I felt I was left with no choice but to contact my bank, who have now credited my account the GBP56 I'd paid. It's a shame that it's come to this. I used to just adore Maelstrom.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

EotS is owned and operated by the same people as Maelstrom, in the same building, with the same phone number. Yeah, they're a completely different company... Oh yeah, they are an online retailer because they sell something online. There are many online retailers that also have a brick and mortar presence. That does not mean that they are not an online retailer.

What people seem to be overlooking or unaware of is that by UK law, EOTS is a completely different entity to Maelstrom or any other company.

It is perfectly legal for an individual to hold directorships of multiple companies, and it's perfectly legal for separate companies to operate out of the same premises.

Sure, if there's been any irregularity in the interactions between those companies then liquidators are likely to take a long look at them, but if the rules have been adhered to then there's nothing to be done.

Their goodwill has all but disappeared and any supplier that extends them credit deserves anything they get, but one must not confuse what is morally or ethically wrong with that which is illegal. It's quite possible that MG have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law and that for those who have just lost their money it's tough luck.

I, for one, won't ever order from them again, and as I suspect I'm in the majority here, that will be the biggest issue any new company faces and likely means a fairly bleak future for the group.

 azreal13 wrote:
What people seem to be overlooking or unaware of is that by UK law, EOTS is a completely different entity to Maelstrom or any other company.

That's been discussed at length. It won't change the way people who were burnt by them perceive them.

 mikhaila wrote:

I'm curious to see who goes back to doing business with EOTS/Maelstrom.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the suppliers do. Ones who didn't lose money to Maelstrom (if there are any?) They'd likely be on cash-up-front terms though, rather than 30, 60 or 90-day credit.

 azreal13 wrote:
What people seem to be overlooking or unaware of is that by UK law, EOTS is a completely different entity to Maelstrom or any other company.

Only if the assets were transferred at fair market value. EotS only took over former Maelstrom assets in the last month.

I wonder if the 80% off was to cover transferring of assets cheap. If they sold to the public at 80% off, would it be unreasonable to sell everything else to EotS at 80% of retail for everything that's left?

In a recession/depression market value is whatever you can capitalise to generate cash to cover debts.

I suspect that any stock transfer will have been done for peanuts and used to cover staff wages before they left to work for EotS.

 helium42 wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

EotS is owned and operated by the same people as Maelstrom, in the same building, with the same phone number. Yeah, they're a completely different company... Oh yeah, they are an online retailer because they sell something online. There are many online retailers that also have a brick and mortar presence. That does not mean that they are not an online retailer.

According to companies house they are a separate company, that is fact.

That they are owned by the same person is fact.

In business terms they are separate. I'm not going to get irate at this. I have seen companies fold and open up again with virtually the same details.This happens all the time.

What is a problem for me as a consumer is the way in which the whole affair was handled by the owners. Poor Customer service is a big turn off for me, no matter how big a discount is being offered.

I don't trust EOTS to be any different in that regard.

So they won't be getting any of my hard earned in the near future.









Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scipio.au wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

I'm curious to see who goes back to doing business with EOTS/Maelstrom.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the suppliers do. Ones who didn't lose money to Maelstrom (if there are any?) They'd likely be on cash-up-front terms though, rather than 30, 60 or 90-day credit.

Most suppliers will probably come back. Doesn't matter what issues were had before, they will be in the back of a suppliers mind for sure, but they deal with the company, New company, new rules.

Restricted trading is a given but eventually, it will get back to a state of normality.

Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

 Million wrote:
Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

You could give EOTS a try but I suspect that they will play the whole separate company card, which they have a right to do.

But, like I said you never know unless you try.

Also try via http://maunsfeldgaming.wordpress.com/ with links to: http://www.maunsfeld-gaming.co.uk/

 Million wrote:
Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

Contact details for them are:
maelstromgames@googlemail.com
contact@maelstromgames.co.uk

But they have them set to an auto response which look exactly like this:

Hi

I'm very sorry for the delay you have are having with us, due to the discount voucher we are offering we are experiencing a large amount of orders and emails, we are working through this as quick as we can and will respond to every email we receive.

Thanks for your continued support

Cheers

Maelstrom Games


Even if they got part of your order correct you can still claim back the money from your Credit card company, bank (and i think Paypal) for the bits you are missing. Email them once or twice first though, there non responses will help your argument as they are essentially not responding,

Hopefully gamers and suppliers will remember his dishonesty in the future. Hopefully he will refund / provide the missing goods to all of his slighted former customers once he has things up and running at his new/old digs.

redknight27 wrote:
Hopefully he will refund / provide the missing goods to all of his slighted former customers once he has things up and running at his new/old digs.

It would take a Christmas miracle.

Maybe i could change my name to Jed, grow a mustache, and then i won't have to pay my overdraft...

I had 2 (identical) minis still unshipped (and the purportedly shipped stuff hasn't arrived) and today got notice that they've split the remaining order in half and shipped 1 of the 2 minis... Actually trying to fulfill orders or delaying tactic?

Oh man! Wish i'd found this thread earlier I've been growing more and more annoyed with maelstrom games about my unfulfilled order.

It's actually helped to know others have experienced the same pain.

I'm raising a dispute with Paypal, I doubt it'll do any good but it's better than nothing.

SeanDrake wrote:
Questions that I would really like answers to in amongst this issue.

1. Why did Maelstrom continue to take money for pre orders they knew they could not fulfill due to being in too much debt to suppliers?
2. Why did Maelstrom not refund pre-orders once it was clear that they were not going to get stock to fulfil them?
3. Why did Maelstrom spend 8 months blaming a non existent warehouse delays for issues?
4. Why were Maelstrom able to send desperate sale emails everyday for 3 months but were unable to respond to any customer queries regarding missing money or goods?
5. If as suggested by Maelstroms own books they had effectively had £500000 of free stock based on trade prices and had been taking pre-order funds from customers for goods they never delivered along with the funds from the recent sales but the company was broke where is the money?
6. As Maelstrom were struggling so badly how did they afford to start production of their own line of miniatures and game while also undertaking renovation and extension of their bricks and mortar store?
7. The timing of the spin off of Mercie Miniatures and Maelstrom Store erm I mean the Eye of the Storm or Maunsfield Gaming as a believe it is this week worked out well for them was that intentional?
8. What is it called when someone takes payment for goods they do not have and are unable to get but does not return the funds or allows a 3rd party such as Paypal to pick up the bill?

Also anyone who has lost money or goods if you follow the link and fill out the form the Citizens Advice Bureau will look at the complaint and if warranted pass it to Maelstroms local trading standards I have already done this they confirmed while they could not directly help they would pass it on.
https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

This most likely would not get your money back but as the company as far as I can tell has not been officially wound up yet it may result in a full investigation I would suggest even non uk residents fill this in, also if you were one of the people who tried to request a refund but received no reply or refund then make sure you mention that as under uk law you legally have 14days from recept in which you can cancel an order nevermind before delivery.

I'm not sure if your post was meant as rhetorical or not, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most people already know the answers to the questions here, at least if they are being honest with themselves:

1. Because they were continuing to take in money to pay for stock and orders that they had no cash for. Essentially, they were using new orders to pay for existing orders they hadn't shipped. At that point, things were akin to a Ponzi scheme of some sort. They pretty much admitted in one of their sales emails that they needed new orders to pay for the older ones.
2. Because they didn't have the cash or credit to do so - what we have seen over the last few months has been the death throes of a business, despite claims to the contrary by others in this thread, this has been pretty much obvious to most people reading between the lines.
3. What else are they going to do? They still needed new orders to clear out as much of their stock as possible so they were hardly going to come out and admit they were going bust.
4. Because it take 5 mins to send a bulk mailer. Again, this is all about clearing out as much of their stock as possible, and making off with what ever they could liquidate from the business before it folded, and zero to do with customer satisfaction.
5. Most likely, as much money as possible has been creamed off or creatively shifted to other companies to prevent it being tied in with Maelstrom when it went bust.
6. I don't think they were struggling at that point; I feel that they have over-reached themselves and the creation of their own miniature line and associated costs etc has precipitated their cash flow problems.
7. Of course it was intentional. The sole aim of the last few months has been to generate and clear out as much cash and stock from the company as possible before the hammer falls; that way, it can't be tied up in the administrative/bankruptcy process.Spinning off the business is a way of doing this, and legal it would seem, much to people's chagrin. You see it quite often in the UK - private businesses fold all the time yet short of a court judgement, failed owners are free to start up new companies doing exactly the same thing all over again.
8. It's pretty much fraud although I suspect you would have a hard time defining it legally and prosecuting for it.

All of this horrible mess should serve as a salutatory lesson to all. Maelstrom have been in trouble for a while and you could tell by the increasing % of sales and deals being offered. It was clear to me, someone with zero business experience, that they were trying to clear their shelves off as much stock as possible before shutting down. Unfortunately, people's greed and naivety comes to the fore with cases like this. You should always, always take as many precautions to protect yourself when dealing with a web store (or when making any sort of transaction really).

I claimed my 40 euro at my local bank a week ago, send a form to Visa and today I got them back on my account!
Useless to say, Maelstrom and their clones are dead for me and my friends around the world!

 Million wrote:
Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

I sent an email to EoTS yesterday about an order I placed during the 70% off sale that was in the packing stage when the maelstrom site went offline. I got a reply this morning from Maelstrom indicating that my order had been split and part of it shipped. Unfortunately they didnt bother to tell me WHAT had shipped... Anyways, I'd email both EoTS and Maelstrom.

FWIW, my order was just Banebeast/Darklands stuff, so given that they supply it, they actually can get it to ship.

Gutted. MG have basically had my gamming budget now for the last few years and I've spent $1000's with them and never had a problem. I've not physically lost any money with them, but I'd built up around $200's worth of store credit with them which I've now lost if they don't re-open. Guess as I've not physically lost anything I shouldn't complain.

I've looked at the EOTS store and unless MS forefill all their orders with people (and this forum will tell me that), I won't be spending a penny with them. I've already sent an order for supplies through Wayland Games who I've not used before. I know if it was me and I'd lost a large order, regardless of the consequences I'd be driving down to Nottingham and 'taking' my order from the physical EOTS store.

It would be interesting to find out exactly what's caused MS demise. I think it would be a mix of a few things, GW's new trading policies will be a factor, but by how much I don't know.

Luckily, I've Sedition Wars on a KS pre order from Studio Mc Vey, followed by a KS Bombshell Babes, and a KS Relic knights arrived early next year. Due to GW pricing me out of their hobby, I spend as little as possible with them now and never direct through them.

Good Evening

First Time Poster, but I have been following this thread here and on TMP. I still have two outstanding orders totalling about £50. I have had no luck getting through to Maelstrom as many others have already remarked. However this afternoon I received an email advising that another part of my order had shipped after having been further split.

Thinking maybe Maelstrom's website was back up and running, I went to the page only to get the same frustrating down for maintainence excuse.

I then went onto Eye of the Storm and tried logging in using my Maelstrom login... Behold I was able to see my outstanding orders and moneyback details... On the downside still processing the majority of my order I placed at the start of the final final final final ad infinitum sale.... However I'm a little more reassured knowing that I can still keep an eye on this outstanding order...

I'm not making a comment either way about what the hell is going on although I know after all the frustration of the last two weeks I will be unlikely to use EOTS but I'm a little more hopeful on seeing the outstanding order at some point in the next decade

Also failing seeing any more of the outstanding order it at least allows me to take screen shots etc to provide to my credit card company if needed...

Hope this is of some help to those of you as frustrated and confused as I am.

You can get onto EotS with your Maelstrom login details? I get "email address not registered" when I try that.

He is right. I tried the same and although it did not work a couple of days ago (see my previous post when I made exactly the same guess), I was able to log into EoTS now. However, in my case there was 0 moneyback and out of two outstanding orders with 4 items in total (Forged in Battle, Templar's Forge and Flames of War), there was only one (the Flames of War) and no indication that the other three had been completed or cancelled. Maybe they are still in the process of transfering customer database? I guess I will give them a week and then head to my bank for reclamation proceedings.

It seems to have my full address details the only difference I can see between my Maelstrom Account page and the EOTS one is that my moneyback (I'd amassed a whopping 27p) is empty and there is only outstanding orders showing, completed and cancelled orders are empty.

My Completed orders on Maelstrom went back at least 4 years which is why I'm pretty upset about how myself and others have been treated in this farce of a firesale. The only reason I regularly used Maelstrom was because they are one of the only online stores which stocks both FOW and FIB (Full catalouge) at 10% discount. Wayland is now my goto Online store, unfortunately they don't carry a full FIB range (No Jeeps, No Opel Blitz, amongst others)

hmm, still doesn't take my maelstrom login. weird.

CainTheHunter wrote:
He is right. I tried the same and although it did not work a couple of days ago (see my previous post when I made exactly the same guess), I was able to log into EoTS now. However, in my case there was 0 moneyback and out of two outstanding orders with 4 items in total (Forged in Battle, Templar's Forge and Flames of War), there was only one (the Flames of War) and no indication that the other three had been completed or cancelled. Maybe they are still in the process of transfering customer database? I guess I will give them a week and then head to my bank for reclamation proceedings.

Weirdly, I also get the "email not recognized" error when I tried to log in. Maybe only some accounts transferred?

I've tried to log on and had the 'email not registered'. So I;ve re registered using identical details. I think I can kiss my $200 ish store credit goodbye.

And with that its Goodbye to Maelstrom, Eye of the Storm, or whatever thsi business calls itself, they won't be getting anymore of my money.

Hi guys, first time poster but I have also been following this topic closely. Just checked on EOTS and my MS account has also transferred over together with my order.

Really not sure what to make of it all now. In the process of claiming the money back but as it was a debit visa payment, it's a longer process.

Guess there's some hope that my order will be honoured with the transfer to EOTS. That said even if it is, the lack of communication will be hard to forgive.

hopefully the (gradual) transition of customer data base is a good sign of things to come. Im ever so slightly more optimistic now.

Bolognesus wrote:
hmm, still doesn't take my maelstrom login. weird.

You need to make a new one,
Or at least I did.

um...if EotS are a legally distinct entity from Maelstrom and they haven't had your explicit permission then the transfer of customer data from Maelstrom to EotS was a pretty textbook violation of the data protection act

Charax wrote:
um...if EotS are a legally distinct entity from Maelstrom and they haven't had your explicit permission then the transfer of customer data from Maelstrom to EotS was a pretty textbook violation of the data protection act

I suspect that this would be covered by your original acceptance of MG's terms of use, probably under something like allowing your details to be passed to other organisations for the purpose of completing your order?

Anyway I'm less bothered about whether it's a technical infringement of the DPA than I am about getting my outstanding stuff!

Isn't it interesting the accounts that have been transferred from MG to EOTS all appear to be UK-domiciled.

#justsaying

Yeah I noticed they all were UK people will try mine later.

I'm in the UK, and my details haven't transferred as of yet.

Perhaps the other question is - are all those whose accounts working people with outstanding orders?

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm in the UK, and my details haven't transferred as of yet.

Perhaps the other question is - are all those whose accounts working people with outstanding orders?

My account hasn't been transferred and I have an outstanding order with MaelstromGames. I wonder if they are only transferring accounts that have outstanding orders for the lines they are continuing to stock on EOS. My order is for Games-workshop stuff.

My outstanding order for Banelegions stuff to the US hasn't been transferred it seems.

I am outside UK and my details have been partially transferred.

skarsol wrote:
My outstanding order for Banelegions stuff to the US hasn't been transferred it seems.

Same here. Though I did receive 2 of the 12 Banebeasts I ordered on 10/28/12 today. I'm still somewhat apprehensive, as there was no packing slip which is pretty sloppy... also the customs declaration is far over the value of the 2 figs (approaching the total value of what I bought). So I guess I play the waiting game for another week or two.

Today, I received an email from Maelstrom saying that my order has been dispatched.

I am crossing my fingers.

Lol. After trying to cancel an order for over a month and then claiming back through Paypal taking another couple of weeks, Maelstrom have sent me part of what I was refunded for???? The packing slip however said there was twice as much stuff as there actually was but wtf???

OK so outstanding order, UK customer, cashback in account and was not transfered over - so guessing either random transferes timescales or rubbish

chitty1 wrote:
Lol. After trying to cancel an order for over a month and then claiming back through Paypal taking another couple of weeks, Maelstrom have sent me part of what I was refunded for???? The packing slip however said there was twice as much stuff as there actually was but wtf???

I'm starting to wonder if they can claim some sort of liability or deduction for overdeclaring stuff on the invoices they shipped out...

HopScotch wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm in the UK, and my details haven't transferred as of yet.

Perhaps the other question is - are all those whose accounts working people with outstanding orders?

My account hasn't been transferred and I have an outstanding order with MaelstromGames. I wonder if they are only transferring accounts that have outstanding orders for the lines they are continuing to stock on EOS. My order is for Games-workshop stuff.

Same here.

I also wondered about whether account transfers break the data protection act.

I tried logging into EoTS website without any luck, so I re-registered with the exact same details I used on the Maelstrom Site.

I've checked again, and there are no details for completed orders or the outstanding order I still have.

The outstanding order is for a whopping 1 pot of Army Painter Angels Green (I am still owed 2 pots from a supposedly completed order)

I'm also wondering if it's because EoTS does not appear to stock Army Painter products that nothing is showing.

I may try contacting EoTS about this, but for 3 pots of paint paid for from cashback, I'm wondering if it's worth the bother.


EDIT: My mistake, EoTS DOES stock army painter, but the ones I'm owed are out of stock, and the one from my split order is showing as 1 in stock, so may not be in stock either.

Yeah, it is interesting to note that part of my order which was delivered (around 10 GBP of total 22 GBP) had attached customs declaration - for the very first time, since with shipments from the MG and both countries being within the EU the customs declaration is totally unnecessary. BUT - the value stated was 22 GBP although it contained goods for 10 GBP only.

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
I may try contacting EoTS about this, but for 3 pots of paint paid for from cashback, I'm wondering if it's worth the bother.

For the sake of everyone who hasn't had their order sent out, it's worth the bother.
Give them hell.

I'll try the EotS logon thing. Good call.

What is galling about the EotS being the same site as Maelstrom's old site, is they still have this:

"Aren't you just another faceless webstore after a quick profit?

Absolutely not! We're not some fly-by-night company with a poor record and even poorer service, our bricks-and-mortar store has been trading since 2009, and we have taken a number of years to research what every wargamer wants in a webstore: a genuinely cheap, no hassle service from people that know the industry and gets items to them quickly."

Winact wrote:

Charax wrote:
um...if EotS are a legally distinct entity from Maelstrom and they haven't had your explicit permission then the transfer of customer data from Maelstrom to EotS was a pretty textbook violation of the data protection act

I suspect that this would be covered by your original acceptance of MG's terms of use, probably under something like allowing your details to be passed to other organisations for the purpose of completing your order?

Anyway I'm less bothered about whether it's a technical infringement of the DPA than I am about getting my outstanding stuff!

Because it's clear the don't give a dam about the law. They are in breach of the DPA and the DSR in so many ways. There doesn't seem to be any T&Cs on the EoTS site and non I remember on the MG site.

Please don't wait and hope EoS will send your order out, if you have an order with MG get your claim in. The website has gone and has been for almost a week, so if you placed an order with them get a claim in now!

Baragash wrote:
I also wondered about whether account transfers break the data protection act.

Steve steveson wrote:
They are in breach of the DPA and the DSR in so many ways. There doesn't seem to be any T&Cs on the EoTS site and non I remember on the MG site.

I think we can all agree that the EoTS website is identical to MaelstromGames one. That in mind here is a direct quote i lifted from their Privacy FAQ page on the EoTS/Maelstrom website.

Will NEVER pass your details on to another company, no matter how much money they offer us.

We will NEVER pass any information to anyone about your order or the statistics that it generates

So going with what they say there, and the fact that EoTS is a completely separate company to Maelstrom Games Steve Steveson is bang on they will have breached Data Protection as well as their own terms and conditions.

Link to Privacy FAQ http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/index.php?act=pag&ref=privacy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition to what I wrote above, if there appears to be a breach of the Data Protection Act you can make an official complaint by filling out the form on this page and emailing it back to the Information Commissions Office.

www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/handling/complain.aspx

Unfortunately I think the ICO only deal with UK residents. I am unsure whether those outside the UK can or should complain through the ICO as the breach has occurred within the UK, or whether you need to go through your home nations equivalent body, it all depend if the breach is consider an extraterritorial crime or not (this you need to check).
The DPA is a Europe wide act for definite so there should be an official body in each EU state to deal with these types of issues. For those of you outside the UK and EU I would say contact the ICO and the relevant body in your country if there is one.

Good to see there are legal grounds to get back at them.

I think it is time trading standards got involved in this. They are in clear breach of several parts of the companies act and data protection legislation.

Surely the customer accounts and mailing lists etc are assets of MG - so can't be transferred to another company without incurring costs. I have a feeling that may be some very dodgy dealings going on. It all looks like Rob Lane is trying a major fudge on the accounting side to take everything out of MG and leave suppliers / customers with nothing. Hopefully he'll get stopped.

Unsurprisingly, my details haven't been migrated to the new site.

UK guys - go for it! Not much I can do from here on the Data Privacy Act and Ethical Standards and all the rest.



As for whether other companies will continue to trade with Rob Lane. Inc., I offer you this:

In DreadBall News:

The Hub is live!
http://www.manticgames.com/DreadBall.html

And we're at some more events:

- 10th November - TableTop Nation, Essex (Big-ass Pre-Launch Party - let us know on Facebook if you're coming)

- 24th November – Eye of the Storm, Mansfield

- 24th November -Triple Helix Wargames

- 1st December – The Outpost, Sheffield

Hmmm I was thinking about going the TTN for that but don't have a big-ass.

There's still time to get on i suppose.

 scipio.au wrote:
Unsurprisingly, my details haven't been migrated to the new site.

UK guys - go for it! Not much I can do from here on the Data Privacy Act and Ethical Standards and all the rest.



As for whether other companies will continue to trade with Rob Lane. Inc., I offer you this:

In DreadBall News:

The Hub is live!
http://www.manticgames.com/DreadBall.html

And we're at some more events:

- 10th November - TableTop Nation, Essex (Big-ass Pre-Launch Party - let us know on Facebook if you're coming)

- 24th November – Eye of the Storm, Mansfield

- 24th November -Triple Helix Wargames

- 1st December – The Outpost, Sheffield

And what were You expecting, comrade? Realities of rotten capitalism and market economy /to be read with strong accent/.

On the other hand, a venue is a venue. They're not supplying anything to maelstrom, they're just using their space. - It's not like there is a huge number of dedicated gaming centres around.

But then again... I am thinking of emailing mantic and saying that I feel it is a bit insensitive, considering the amount of people maelstrom have ripped off.

CainTheHunter wrote:

And what were You expecting, comrade? Realities of rotten capitalism and market economy /to be read with strong accent/.

What I was expecting, tovarisch, was actually pretty much this. I wasn't really expecting Mantic to be one of the first back with them, since they have a pretty good reputation and a lot of goodwill with people, but the bottom line prevails, always. As for simply "using their space" - I understand that a venue is a venue, but it's not like they'd have the use of it for free, so they're probably paying Maunsfield Gaming something for the use of the venue that night. (EOTS is not a small space).

 scipio.au wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:

And what were You expecting, comrade? Realities of rotten capitalism and market economy /to be read with strong accent/.

What I was expecting, tovarisch, was actually pretty much this. I wasn't really expecting Mantic to be one of the first back with them, since they have a pretty good reputation and a lot of goodwill with people, but the bottom line prevails, always. As for simply "using their space" - I understand that a venue is a venue, but it's not like they'd have the use of it for free, so they're probably paying Maunsfield Gaming something for the use of the venue that night. (EOTS is not a small space).

To be fair, I've done tradeshows and so on; which I imagine is really what this is about, and you can't just cancel these things a short time in advance. Usually payments done months in advance at which point, there's really no backing out.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them back out especially when / if we get to hear the full story about what has happened. I suppose it'll be down to the likes of mantic whether or not they want to show their support for the wider gaming community or if they are purely out for themselves and put their event ahead of the feeling of the masses. Could hurt them a bit either way

Yup it was probably booked and paid up long before the fire sales, so changing the venue last minute would hurt Mantic and fans without having any real effect on EotS

I don't see why EotS won't have suppliers trading with them but the terms will be different.

Money upfront, limited size orders and the frequency that they can make them would all be a first step. Which given MG's previous excuses when non of that applied would not fill me with confidence.

The up shot of that would be that EotS will have the same poor turn around in stock that we have come to expect from MGs with the usual "but it's all GWs fault" excuse tagged to every message.

Mantic will use them as it the best space local to them for gaming - the other is WHW, which i dare say wouldnt like mantic turning to game,,,,

 notprop wrote:
I don't see why EotS won't have suppliers trading with them but the terms will be different..

Probably because the guy who owns both companies owes lots of the suppliers a fortune, both kidneys and his soul (assuming the latter hasn't already been sold )

davidjones wrote:
I think it is time trading standards got involved in this. They are in clear breach of several parts of the companies act and data protection legislation.

From what i understand they are, but as a standard operating procedure they wont comment on any open or on-going investigations. So don’t be surprise if we don’t hear anything but then suddenly do.
My advice is if you’re in the UK contact the Citizens Advice bureau in your area asap and make a complaint, (You have to go through them not directly to Trading standards). The more people who complain the bigger and stronger the case, and I imagine the tougher the punishment that the courts can hand down.

 scipio.au wrote:
Unsurprisingly, my details haven't been migrated to the new site.

UK guys - go for it! Not much I can do from here on the Data Privacy Act and Ethical Standards and all the rest.



As for whether other companies will continue to trade with Rob Lane. Inc., I offer you this:

In DreadBall News:

The Hub is live!
http://www.manticgames.com/DreadBall.html

And we're at some more events:

- 10th November - TableTop Nation, Essex (Big-ass Pre-Launch Party - let us know on Facebook if you're coming)

- 24th November – Eye of the Storm, Mansfield

- 24th November -Triple Helix Wargames

- 1st December – The Outpost, Sheffield

To be fair to Mantic, there is still a thread in the Find a Game forum about an event being held at EotS in December, so it's not like the whole community has completely written off EotS/Maunsfield Gaming yet either.

I just registered here specifically so I can share my story on this thread.

I'm enormously disappointed with Maelstrom, because for a few years they were my primary source for all things GW and saved me a lot of money (and/or let me continue in the hobby when regular prices would otherwise have precluded it). It was sad when GW shut down Maelstom's ability to sell to North America, but that wasn't Maelstrom's choice.

I placed orders on October 10 and 12 for some moderately expensive In-Stock items (one around 80 pounds, the other around 120). After a week or so both changed status to Packing... then one of them reverted back to Processing.

I'm happy to say that the one that didn't revert moved on to Dispatched and arrived a little while later. But the other item remained stuck in Processing, and was still there when the Maelstrom site went down. I've sent a couple of e-mails since then but nothing back.

And then after reading this thread I went to the Eye of the Storm site. And there showing as "In-Stock (1)" is THE VERY ITEM I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR ALL THIS TIME.

My only consolation is that I paid with Visa and will be getting that money back from them. But... the utter *gall*. I'm absolutely stunned that anyone could perpetrate such a naked, brazen fraud.

HopScotch wrote:
Link to Privacy FAQ http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/index.php?act=pag&ref=privacy

That's the bit I was looking for, thanks.
The email address I used with Maelstrom was specifically only used there, so if it shows up in EotS, it'll be obvious they shared the data.
As soon as is shows up, off to Trading standards with them.

[Update]: Thanks Dysartes. I'd not read the whole thing properly. It's the ISO, not TS that do data.

While trying to find the EOTS site i've turned up another of Rob Lanes companies that I don't remember hearing about before (same Mansfield address)

Anglia Games Limited, established 15/6/12

any ideas on this one?

 Skinnereal wrote:
As soon as is shows up, off to Trading standards with them.

Which will do a lot of good, especially as TS don't deal with DPA breaches...

As HopScotch pointed out on the previous page:

HopScotch wrote:
In addition to what I wrote above, if there appears to be a breach of the Data Protection Act you can make an official complaint by filling out the form on this page and emailing it back to the Information Commissions Office.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/handling/complain.aspx

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
While trying to find the EOTS site i've turned up another of Rob Lanes companies that I don't remember hearing about before (same Mansfield address)

Anglia Games Limited, established 15/6/12

any ideas on this one?

That'll be fore when EotS goes under!

 SoulDrinker wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I don't see why EotS won't have suppliers trading with them but the terms will be different..

Probably because the guy who owns both companies owes lots of the suppliers a fortune, both kidneys and his soul (assuming the latter hasn't already been sold )

Maelstrom Games owes the suppliers.
This is one of the benefits of setting up as a Ltd company. Rob Lane has limited liability in law. (depending on how things were moved and transferred to Maunsfield et al).
Sure, the suppliers will tread carefully, but they'll come back, and in greater numbers.

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

And money talks of course.

If Mr Lane stumps up a box of cash in advance of an order I don't see most suppliers saying no.

I received my money back through paypal. Maelstorm just ignored the claim and it was resolved in my favor.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Hi people
Im new to the forums but had to say something. Ive spent over a grand in the last moth or so Ive bought from Maelstrom gaming and from Wayland games twice each. Both times I was disgusted how bad they dealt with my order. It took weeks , no replies, hang up on me, didnt inform me and took my money and still messed up my order plus having things in stock on live stock levels then deciding they dont have it in dont tell me but take my money. Maelstrom took nearly £50 from a £120 order charged me and sent me half an order. Called them over 50-60 times nothing . Emailed them threatened legal action nothing. Dont have much choice these days so tried firestorm games which a mate suggested and so far on my 3rd order and theyve been great. Ive played for years but stopped for about 7 years get back into 40k and not had much luck with sellers up until firestorm games and would recommend to anyone great service too. Its a damn shame when people get shafted by companies that just dont care

 Far Seer wrote:
Today, I received an email from Maelstrom saying that my order has been dispatched.

I am crossing my fingers.

It's arrived! I still have an item that I'm waiting for, but it's just one paint pot. Now I can relax in peace!

It is gakking strange how it arrived today, when I received the email saying it was dispatched only yesterday...

 Far Seer wrote:

It is gakking strange how it arrived today, when I received the email saying it was dispatched only yesterday...

Even stranger: I got a mail on wednesday, that an item (yes, just one) was shipped that day (nov 7th).
Alas, I've received said item on saturday (nov 3rd)!

Receiving items from Maelstrom before the dispatched email is pretty common

Got my refund from paypal It took ten days from the moment i reported the incident to the moment i got the money on my account.

Glad that i got out of this mess without any loss (2/3 of the items delivered, and the rest reimbursed by paypal).

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

Well for me discount wargaming is dead for now . I got my credit card refund yesterday. 400 EUR back to account. For all I care they can do now what they want. I will buy at my LGS which offers about 10% when bought via Internet or full retail if bought in shop. Well since I like the shop I guess I will just buy at full retail. And they have almost all the items MG had. And than there is still the local GW retail store which I kinda like, too. And they are always happy if they find people who buy stuff and not only hang out there . Fortunately I work in a well paying job so that it doesn't really matter. It was nice as long as it lasted with MG but I guess going to the store and picking the stuff right off without any waiting will be worth the missed discount.

Also since GW streamlined GBP and EUR prices the discount is really only the 10-20% and not 40% like you sometimes had with currency advantages.

So basically lesson learned without further cost than time and a few letters to CC-Company.

From what I've heard some of the biggest independent suppliers will never deal with any of those companies again as they've been funded by the debt created at MG. You can't build companies with supplier's money default on their debt and then expect them to supply you again. I can't see any of the companies who are owed money starting supplying them again. Most people only get burnt once, it's common sense. They'll also have a lot of bad feeling to MG just like many customers will. People who lost money on their orders with MG aren't likely to buy from the new store - especially as there are lots of other stores to choose from.

I can certainly see suppliers refusing to deal with EotS or any offshoots until the Maelstrom debt has been cleared first, and even then wanting paid up front.

Yes they are separate legal entities, but they will be very aware of what's happened, and from the sounds of it some of them will have been pretty badly burnt.

As far as the customers are concerned, most will just jump ship to whatever online retailer has the stock they want at a comparable deal, and many may refuse to deal with any of Robs companies direct on moral grounds. I know if I need to deal with any of them for whatever reason I'll make sure to drop my missing Maelstrom orders into the conversations as much as I can and they only owe me about £5

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

Allot of supplers will be treating all the company's as one and the same. I know I would given the close relationship. Even if EoTS was paying its bills I would be very weary of any company Mr Lane is involved in, IF suppliers have been treated the way customers have. Trade credit at that size is all based on reputation and EoTS's reputation is trashed. If it was me they would all be on CWO if they have acted as we think they have.

I don't know the credit policy or the ins and outs of how suppliers have been treated but the MDs history dose most certainly have an effect. There are a couple of people I would never offer credit too again if I knew they had any involvement in the management of a business.

Lorien wrote:
Well for me discount wargaming is dead for now . I got my credit card refund yesterday. 400 EUR back to account. For all I care they can do now what they want. I will buy at my LGS which offers about 10% when bought via Internet or full retail if bought in shop. Well since I like the shop I guess I will just buy at full retail. And they have almost all the items MG had. And than there is still the local GW retail store which I kinda like, too. And they are always happy if they find people who buy stuff and not only hang out there . Fortunately I work in a well paying job so that it doesn't really matter. It was nice as long as it lasted with MG but I guess going to the store and picking the stuff right off without any waiting will be worth the missed discount.

Also since GW streamlined GBP and EUR prices the discount is really only the 10-20% and not 40% like you sometimes had with currency advantages.

So basically lesson learned without further cost than time and a few letters to CC-Company.

Dark Sphere is a good company, and now offering 25% of. Dealt with them for years, both mail order and local pick up. Always good comms and delivery.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Dark Sphere is a good company, and now offering 25% of. Dealt with them for years, both mail order and local pick up. Always good comms and delivery.

i would 100% second this. Dark sphere are a great company i used they for ages up until they stopped shipping GW items, never had an issue, so glad that as of this week they have reinstated shipping.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

This isn't a huge multinational corporation here, most of these suppliers or distributors should at the very least KNOW each other. My company has sold to the UK market for more than 2 decades and in furniture; which is a much larger industry than miniature hobbies I would presume. When a company goes bust, EVERYBODY hears about it and we all have rumours about what happened and what the guy behind it was thinking and whether it was a legitimate bankruptcy or one of those shady schemes. If you think that suppliers aren't going to look at who's behind the helm of EOTS, you're kidding yourself. No one wants to be stuck with that bad debt. Sure EOTS may be trading, but I never said nobody wouldn't trade with EOTS. It'll probably be cash up front terms or L/C based terms. Nobody is going to extend credit to EOTS for maybe a year or more, not unless they're feeling particularly adventurous.

Ok.. checked Eots, and thet had onlly 1 of my 3 incompleted orders from Maelstrom... no history, no moneyback....

could people who are getting their orders or are registered on the new EOTS site let us know what kind of orders you placed? Im waiting with every finger crossed that some GW stuff might arrive. just wondering if anyone else has recieved GW.

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

This isn't a huge multinational corporation here, most of these suppliers or distributors should at the very least KNOW each other. My company has sold to the UK market for more than 2 decades and in furniture; which is a much larger industry than miniature hobbies I would presume. When a company goes bust, EVERYBODY hears about it and we all have rumours about what happened and what the guy behind it was thinking and whether it was a legitimate bankruptcy or one of those shady schemes. If you think that suppliers aren't going to look at who's behind the helm of EOTS, you're kidding yourself. No one wants to be stuck with that bad debt. Sure EOTS may be trading, but I never said nobody wouldn't trade with EOTS. It'll probably be cash up front terms or L/C based terms. Nobody is going to extend credit to EOTS for maybe a year or more, not unless they're feeling particularly adventurous.

Again with someone not reading properly.

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

Allot of supplers will be treating all the company's as one and the same. I know I would given the close relationship. Even if EoTS was paying its bills I would be very weary of any company Mr Lane is involved in, IF suppliers have been treated the way customers have. Trade credit at that size is all based on reputation and EoTS's reputation is trashed. If it was me they would all be on CWO if they have acted as we think they have.

I don't know the credit policy or the ins and outs of how suppliers have been treated but the MDs history dose most certainly have an effect. There are a couple of people I would never offer credit too again if I knew they had any involvement in the management of a business.

I would assume that suppliers have been treated a tad differently to the consumers.

I agree with what you say there mr Burning - the bigger "companies" may very well continue to supply EOTS as it's just corporate policy / business practise, but in this industry a lot of stuff is quite personal, often suppliers are just one/two man family companies and it's those who will take this personally and not deal with EOTS if they've been burnt by MG. The person orientated companies are just going to supply all their other shops and hope EOTS suffer from the loss of trade. The thing to consider is really would the suppliers want to be associated with someone who has ripped off their customers? (the people who play their games) or will they take the moral route and disassociate themselves with everything surrounding MG.

As much as this hobby grows in the main part this is still very much a "people" orientated business with the exception of one or two big corporations. Personally I like it that way

chrisjuuuh wrote:
could people who are getting their orders or are registered on the new EOTS site let us know what kind of orders you placed? Im waiting with every finger crossed that some GW stuff might arrive. just wondering if anyone else has recieved GW.

I did not order GW from MG (I had a feeling that it would be a bad idea... turned out that anything would have been ;P). I have two items from discontinued Templar's Forge range (another product of MG/Banelegions etc chain) - they might not be showing up since the range itself is not supported by the EoTS. I wonder if they would appear at my door without any prior notice (MG site listed them being in hundreds in stock before closure). Another item it Forged in Battle German StuG IV platoon, which according to the EoTS is in their stock and was in stock with MG for MONTHS when I placed my order. One of the reasons why I ordered that StuG platoon was that I saw them on MG site for months in stock and was 100% they would be shipped within a week. Never happened.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.


I would assume that suppliers have been treated a tad differently to the consumers.

I don't really understand what your saying...

I guess they way you are talking you also work in credit... I think we are discussing the ins and outs of how trade credit works but your working from a premise that EoTS are being supplied still and I am working from a premise that they are not and this is causing a little confusion.

The whole reason this query about suppliers not supplying EoTS, and about EoTS's credit rating, started was because I pointed out that EoTS seem to have no stock. They have no GW, and what they do have from other companys they only have about 40% in stock and most of that they only have 1 of. It seems that suppliers have stopped supplying EoTS.

I wondered if they had been put on stop by suppliers. I was not saying that no one will ever give them any stock, just questioning if they too may be having problems, if not with money then with getting credit.

I think you are saying the same thing as me, that MG going under dose not mean that anything related to them will automatically be blacklisted, but that it CAN be if a company acts badly enough. Again I think we are saying the same thing from different starting points. I'm saying it can happen, your saying it dose not normally happen.

 HellFire Sin wrote:
Hi people
Im new to the forums but had to say something. Ive spent over a grand in the last moth or so Ive bought from Maelstrom gaming and from Wayland games twice each. Both times I was disgusted how bad they dealt with my order. It took weeks , no replies, hang up on me, didnt inform me and took my money and still messed up my order plus having things in stock on live stock levels then deciding they dont have it in dont tell me but take my money. Maelstrom took nearly £50 from a £120 order charged me and sent me half an order. Called them over 50-60 times nothing . Emailed them threatened legal action nothing. Dont have much choice these days so tried Rocket Hobbies which a mate suggested and so far on my 3rd order and theyve been great. Ive played for years but stopped for about 7 years get back into 40k and not had much luck with sellers up until Rocket Hobbies and would recommend to anyone great service too. Its a damn shame when people get shafted by companies that just dont care

Many thanks for your kind words.

Richard
Rocket Hobbies
www.rockethobbies.co.uk

errr i dont know if you noticed, but basically, EOTS has almost nothing in stock. So i assume they cannot order from suppliers. I am sure it will never make it.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.


I would assume that suppliers have been treated a tad differently to the consumers.

I don't really understand what your saying...

I guess they way you are talking you also work in credit... I think we are discussing the ins and outs of how trade credit works but your working from a premise that EoTS are being supplied still and I am working from a premise that they are not and this is causing a little confusion.

The whole reason this query about suppliers not supplying EoTS, and about EoTS's credit rating, started was because I pointed out that EoTS seem to have no stock. They have no GW, and what they do have from other companys they only have about 40% in stock and most of that they only have 1 of. It seems that suppliers have stopped supplying EoTS.

I wondered if they had been put on stop by suppliers. I was not saying that no one will ever give them any stock, just questioning if they too may be having problems, if not with money then with getting credit.

I think you are saying the same thing as me, that MG going under dose not mean that anything related to them will automatically be blacklisted, but that it CAN be if a company acts badly enough. Again I think we are saying the same thing from different starting points. I'm saying it can happen, your saying it dose not normally happen.

Yeah we are on the same page here, I think. I tend to waffle on a bit

I haven't worked in credit but work and circumstances have forced me to look at this from time to time.

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Yeah we are on the same page here, I think. I tend to waffle on a bit

I haven't worked in credit but work and circumstances have forced me to look at this from time to time.

Ye, we seem to be... No worries, I tend to waffle too (hence my long post about the morality of pheonixing on a war gaming site).

Well, you certainly seem to have a good grip on what your talking about.

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Again with someone not reading properly.

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.

It means businesses will take money when it's given to them. I have no idea why you think EOTS is trading on credit terms. Or why you think companies will not look at who owns the company they're trading with. They can be different legal entities but if people know it's the same person at the head, it's still going to color their perception.

IF EOTS credit is good? How do you define good? How long has this company been split off? Does Maelstromgames still owe the suppliers money? And judging from a post on Wyrd, I'd say they still do. Do you think that that same supplier is going to just trade with EOTS on credit terms because hey, it's a totally different legal entity? No, it's going to be cash terms for a while. How long do you define the trading history of the company as? If you're the same supplier from Wyrd, how long would you take to go from cash terms to credit terms for EOTS?

I supply to trade and retail and I KNOW that if someone owed me money and then went bankrupt and transferred everything to a new shell company, he would be trading on cash terms for a loooooong loooong time. Like 2 years minimum. Sure, I would lose some business but it's not like Maelstrom is the Ikea of wargaming and that everyone wants the companys business.

If you think that anyone is gonna give any credit to EoTS, you have obviously never worked in a credit department.

As a few companies are mentioned as replacements for Maelstrom, let me put forth my own company:
tabletopminiaturegames.eu

We have been trading for a bit longer than 4 months now. And we have a limited number of companies on the site at the moment (GW, PP,Avatars of War, Spartan Games. And the latter we do not carry in stock).
But we already have a group of loyal customers (mainly in the Netherlands, a few from Belgium and Germany. No idea of any are present on this forum).

Due to shipping costs, we are only interesting for UK wargamers when placing larger orders. That is untill the euro drops further in value....which is only a matter of time.
But we offer good shipping costs for the three countries mentioned above.
And as we grow, we will expand our range. Although we have no intention of stocking everything in the market and go bankrupt, because it does not sell.

Now to the actual topic:
As many others I have been following this and other threads for some time now.
A shame what happened. And it could have partially avoided IF Maelstrom had communicated.
But as far I can see, they made a number of bad business calls (own miniature line firmly on first place). The restriction of GW only dealing in EU and the rise of the pnd compared to the euro, finished them.
Too much overhead, too little income.
But Maelstrom should have handled it a lot better. And I can only hope that most of you get your money back or even better the items you ordered. But I have my doubts.

Guys... I think there has been a little confusion between never getting credit, not getting credit now and not getting any sales!

I think we can all agree that EoTS will be treated with allot of caution when making a decision over offering them credit or keeping there credit account open.

Personally, IF the company is in the position we think it is and I was an unpaid supplier (which I'm not), I would be sending them over to my very good debt recovery guys to, as they put it, "explain a few fact of life" to Mr Lane... I love my new recovery agents. They are so good and don't take any gak...

Was going to start a thread on this until I remembered this one.

My past experiences with Maelstrom (3 of them) have been good if a little slow but I placed an order for two Tervi kits on the 28th Aug and still no sign of them.
Managed to contact their customers service line around late Sept and they said the kits hadnt been dispatched by GW, so I said "no bother, I've lots of other stuff to work on" but I've called 5-6 times now in the last 3 weeks - no answer and emailed twice looking for an order update.
38 pages is a lot to wade through, I know they have moved warehouses etc of late but other people are having order time issues too? Anyone been waiting 10 weeks + like myself?

 Ratius wrote:
Was going to start a thread on this until I remembered this one.

My past experiences with Maelstrom (3 of them) have been good if a little slow but I placed an order for two Tervi kits on the 28th Aug and still no sign of them.
Managed to contact their customers service line around late Sept and they said the kits hadnt been dispatched by GW, so I said "no bother, I've lots of other stuff to work on" but I've called 5-6 times now in the last 3 weeks - no answer and emailed twice looking for an order update.
38 pages is a lot to wade through, I know they have moved warehouses etc of late but other people are having order time issues too? Anyone been waiting 10 weeks + like myself?

You are going to want to read through the last few aleast.

@ratius quite simply maelstrom is no more, you won't get your order as the owner rob lane has simply pocketed your cash. You need to do a chargeback via PayPal or your bank as soon as possible.