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Wow. The nerve. Again, Maelstrom Games tries to play the victim here. Please tell me people aren't buying this bull?

This is the front page of Maelstrom's website.

OFFICIAL NOTICE

Maelstrom Games Ltd. has ceased trading and will enter liquidation at some point over the next few months.

A creditor of Maelstrom Games Ltd., Wayland Games Ltd., issued a Statutory Demand under section 123(1)(a) or 221(1)(a) of the Insolvency Act, 1986 on the 17th of October, 2012 for �99,773.61 plus costs of issuing and serving the demand.

This debt was purchased from Simple Miniature Games by Wayland Games Ltd on the 1st of October, 2012 and payment of this debt was demanded in full by Wayland Games after seven days had elapsed. Unfortunately, Maelstrom Games Ltd. could not pay Wayland Games Ltd. this debt in full within those seven days.

Previous to the debt purchase, Maelstrom Games Ltd. was servicing the debt owed to Simple Miniature Games at the rate of �500 per working day, claimed by the creditor when convenient for him by charging a credit card owned by Maelstrom Games Ltd., which had been occurring since mid-June and continued to late September, the last payment being taken on the 25th. Maelstrom Games Ltd. did not cancel these payments and were not aware that this debt was being transferred.

Maelstrom Games Ltd. offered to pay the debt purchased by Wayland Games Ltd. in the same manner as it had paid Simple Miniature Games, but this was not taken up by Wayland Games Ltd.

Maelstrom Games Ltd. can only apologise to those customers whose orders have not been fulfilled as it is now impossible for Maelstrom Games Ltd. to fulfil them, excepting those for Mierce Miniatures products (fulfilled by Mierce Miniatures in November) and Battlefront Miniatures products (fulfilled by Maelstrom Games in partnership with Battlefront Miniatures and Maunsfeld Gaming in November), all of which will be sent by Maelstrom Games Ltd. Other customer orders for certain ranges may be fulfilled in the future and any customers whose orders can be fulfilled will be contacted by Maelstrom Games in due course.

All creditors will be issued the relevant notices by the assigned Insolvency Practitioner when Maelstrom Games Ltd. enters liquidation.

So now like everyone I'm totally confused

Maelstrom Games has apparently been put out of business by Wayland Games however and I shouldn't expect any more of the stuff that I've paid for... except that according to EOTS, I have outstanding orders I placed with Maelstrom Games....

I mean I've pretty much written off the outstanding order with Maelstrom - A Panzer Grenadier Platoon, Maultiers, S.S PAK 38 and a Stug A...

I'm more concerned if any other company offers the full Forged In Battle range at 10% discount, Wayland do the 10% discount but don't seem to stock the majority of the bits and pieces I need (Opel Blitz's & American Jeeps)

Anybody know of another online retailer who stock FIB for 10% discount (If that is not considered Off Topic)

If the Maelstrom version of events as posted on site can be believed I'm a little upset that a retailer who I've spent a few hundred pounds with in the last six months have cost me and a lot of other of my fellow wargamers a fair amount of money...

Although looking at the Maelstrom version of events in a cynical way it could be EOTS's way of driving business from Wayland Games... Meh who knows...

Sorry for my Ramble..

"Maelstrom Games Ltd. can only apologise to those customers whose orders have not been fulfilled as it is now impossible for Maelstrom Games Ltd. to fulfil them.."

Ah, this is a massive relief to those people who took advantage of the sales, but are now stuck with nothing. Maelstrom should be ashamed of itself, the witches.

Yeah, I'm calling shenanigans. Why was Simple Miniature Games willing to sell the debt if it was being repaid just fine? How long was Maelstrom taking orders saying it was because of a warehouse move when they clearly knew they were going under? Why were people's orders from August still not taken care of by October 1st? I'm thinking Wayland just sunk the looted hulk that was Maelstrom, putting it out of it's misery.

 Corso Vitt wrote:
So now like everyone I'm totally confused

Although looking at the Maelstrom version of events in a cynical way it could be EOTS's way of driving business from Wayland Games...

That's my thought, but if they wanted my sympathy they should have come clean about the goings on long before now.

I don't know about that, but I do know that the owner of Wayland posts here often enough, maybe he can shine a light on this all?

edit.

rich1231

 BrookM wrote:
I don't know about that, but I do know that the owner of Wayland posts here often enough, maybe he can shine a light on this all?

Why should he?

If Simple Miniatures was getting their debt paid off, there would be no reason for them to sell it off for a reduced value.
Why hasn't Maelstrom communicate with its customers for the past month?
Why the "warehouse move" lie?

Basically Maelstrom has been lying though its teeth for the past 6+ months, this just sounds like another way for Maelstrom to deflect part of the blame for their despicable business practices to a direct competitor!

 BrookM wrote:
I don't know about that, but I do know that the owner of Wayland posts here often enough, maybe he can shine a light on this all?

edit.

rich1231

Possibly, but if Wayland is in legal proceedings to try and recover the debt they probably have to remain tight lipped about things.

PhantomViper wrote:
If Simple Miniatures was getting their debt paid off, there would be no reason for them to sell it off for a reduced value.

Debt is not a liquid asset. Maybe Simple Miniatures needed to pay their own bills, so sold the debt to Wayland at a discount because cash is more useful than an IOU.

Or maybe Simple Miniatures didn't trust Maelstrom to continue paying off their debt in the future, and so sold the debt to Wayland at a discount because cash is more reliable than an IOU.

Or, if you want to get into conspiracy theories, maybe the debt was more valuable to Wayland than to your average bear, because it gave them leverage over a direct competitor.

Maelstrom's statement is not true guys, they were and have not been keeping uptodate with repayments.

Understand also that we cannot make a full statement about this on a forum.

The lack of knowledge some people have of common business practice but still feel entitled to post as if they were experts is quite surprising.

The original company will have sold the debt because they got the money NOW. Bird in the hand and all that. Just because MG were paying it doesn't mean that they would continue to do so.

Wayland's motivation is simple, for a relatively small investment they have taken out their main competitor. A creditor calling in a debt is one of the most common causes of a company folding.

The fire sale now makes perfect sense, it was MG's last desperate attempt to raise the cash to clear the debt and continue to trade. It was a hail mary play, but it's now clear the were backed into a corner and had little alternative if they wished to survive.

For those that got caught up in it and have lost money, you have my sympathy, Maelstrom could have acted differently towards their customers, but equally they were put in an untenable position by a very clever move from their competition.

Clever, but a tad douchey.

 azreal13 wrote:
The lack of knowledge some people have of common business practice but still feel entitled to post as if they were experts is quite surprising.

The original company will have sold the debt because they got the money NOW. Bird in the hand and all that. Just because MG were paying it doesn't mean that they would continue to do so.

Wayland's motivation is simple, for a relatively small investment they have taken out their main competitor. A creditor calling in a debt is one of the most common causes of a company folding.

The fire sale now makes perfect sense, it was MG's last desperate attempt to raise the cash to clear the debt and continue to trade. It was a hail mary play, but it's now clear the were backed into a corner and had little alternative if they wished to survive.

For those that got caught up in it and have lost money, you have my sympathy, Maelstrom could have acted differently towards their customers, but equally they were put in an untenable position by a very clever move from their competition.

Clever, but a tad douchey.

You are making an incorrect assumption as well.

What, it wasn't a clever move?

I'm giving you credit for being a business genius here Rich, don't ruin the illusion!

How does Maelstrom's little narrative explain the sales and delivery issues that people have been commenting on since this thread started in July?

 plastictrees wrote:
How does Maelstrom's little narrative explain the sales and delivery issues that people have been commenting on since this thread started in July?

Because you don't normally run up 100k in debt over night.

They must have been experiencing money/cashflow issues for quite a while.

rich1231 wrote:
Maelstrom's statement is not true guys, they were and have not been keeping uptodate with repayments.

Understand also that we cannot make a full statement about this on a forum.

Given gamers are more prone to random outpourings of emotion (and online ones the worst) I would hope your legal chaps can craft a press release setting this straight and stick it on a few sites.

Here's the post

OFFICIAL NOTICE

Maelstrom Games Ltd. has ceased trading and will enter liquidation at some point over the next few months.

A creditor of Maelstrom Games Ltd., Wayland Games Ltd., issued a Statutory Demand under section 123(1)(a) or 221(1)(a) of the Insolvency Act, 1986 on the 17th of October, 2012 for �99,773.61 plus costs of issuing and serving the demand.

This debt was purchased from Simple Miniature Games by Wayland Games Ltd on the 1st of October, 2012 and payment of this debt was demanded in full by Wayland Games after seven days had elapsed. Unfortunately, Maelstrom Games Ltd. could not pay Wayland Games Ltd. this debt in full within those seven days.

Previous to the debt purchase, Maelstrom Games Ltd. was servicing the debt owed to Simple Miniature Games at the rate of �500 per working day, claimed by the creditor when convenient for him by charging a credit card owned by Maelstrom Games Ltd., which had been occurring since mid-June and continued to late September, the last payment being taken on the 25th. Maelstrom Games Ltd. did not cancel these payments and were not aware that this debt was being transferred.

Maelstrom Games Ltd. offered to pay the debt purchased by Wayland Games Ltd. in the same manner as it had paid Simple Miniature Games, but this was not taken up by Wayland Games Ltd.

Maelstrom Games Ltd. can only apologise to those customers whose orders have not been fulfilled as it is now impossible for Maelstrom Games Ltd. to fulfil them, excepting those for Mierce Miniatures products (fulfilled by Mierce Miniatures in November) and Battlefront Miniatures products (fulfilled by Maelstrom Games in partnership with Battlefront Miniatures and Maunsfeld Gaming in November), all of which will be sent by Maelstrom Games Ltd. Other customer orders for certain ranges may be fulfilled in the future and any customers whose orders can be fulfilled will be contacted by Maelstrom Games in due course.

All creditors will be issued the relevant notices by the assigned Insolvency Practitioner when Maelstrom Games Ltd. enters liquidation.




so taken at face value maelstrom were servicing a large debt at £500 per day up to the begining of October

then wayland bought the debt, called in the whole lot and killed maelstrom dead

a reasonable business move, but doing so has killed the chance of most customers with outstanding orders getting anything...... (Not that they had a huge amount of hope anyway, but there was some)

 azreal13 wrote:
What, it wasn't a clever move?

I'm giving you credit for being a business genius here Rich, don't ruin the illusion!

You can keep singing my praises thats fine.

I just wanted to be clear that the motivation was not as you indicate.

Maelstrom Games statement smacks of desperation and is clearly an attempt to blame their problems on someone else in the hope that people will ignore what they did and give business to Mierce Miniatures and EOTS.

Blaming Wayland Games for the fact that MG had run up such a stonking great debt is risible to say the least and smacks of an attempt to blacken a potential competitor rather than admit to the shenanigans that were going on.

The fact is for several months MG had been run as a Ponzi scheme using the money from new customers to buy the goods they owed existing customers.

When the music stopped the people at the end of the chain lost their cash unless they had Credit Card or PayPal protection.

No doubt Trading Standards will be investigating the amazing and seamless transfer of goods, staff, stock, websites et al to EOTS from MG.

In the meantime the lesson is quite clear for ALL purchases over the internet (well at least in the UK):

Check if they actually have the goods you want in stock

Over £100 use a Credit Card

Under £100 either use a Credit Card or PayPal.

If you use PayPal and you have not received your order within 28 days give the company 7 days to either supply the goods or a refund - WITHOUT FAIL.

If this does not happen - for the ENTIRE order - open a PayPal Dispute and give the Company 14 days to deliver either the entire order or a full refund.

If they don't escalate to a claim.

Do NOT close out a PayPal dispute/claim until you have received either your goods in full or a full refund.

Do NOT listen to pleadings, bleatings, whinings or claims that the order will ship as soon as the dispute/claim is ended. STAND YOUR GROUND.

To any retailer who thinks that is harsh - rubbish.

If you advertise goods and can't ship them to me within 28 days or my money back then you frankly shouldn't be in business.

/thread

Finally, the saga moves to its end game.

Thanks Rob, for stringing on your customer base for months on end.

I assume that transferring the debt to Wayland meant Simple could continue distributing its products without a weight around its neck.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Finally, the saga moves to its end game.

Thanks Rob, for stringing on your customer base for months on end.

I assume that transferring the debt to Wayland meant Simple could continue distributing its products without a weight around its neck.

Must be something like that. While I believe Rich, and freely acknowledge I don't have all the facts, I am really struggling to see an alternative motivation for Wayland buying the debt. I hope we get a statement giving more info at some point.

Secondly, can we stop portraying Maelstrom as moustache twirling pantomime villains?

I realise people feel hard done by, even betrayed, but also bare in mind that people may have lost their livelihoods, not Rob, but the warehouse staff etc. As a managing director you feel a responsibility to these people, their partners, their children. If your decisions don't pan out and the business collapses then their fate is on your conscience. Not to mention the many thousands of hours you will have invested yourself. If you try anything to preserve the business and those that depend on it.

Nobody set out to fail. Nobody set out to rip anyone off. Decisions were made that didn't work out, we're all human, we all make mistakes. Just some of them have further reaching consequences than others.

I'm glad to see the sorry saga is finally over. I was a loyal customer of Maelstrom Games for some time but over the past few months they've gone from providing excellent customer service to simply taking people's money and running. My business shifted from them to competitors like Firestorm and Wayland over the summer after they completely failed to solve any issues with a couple of orders I placed (one back in Janurary!). Thankfully I've only been screwed over for £20 or so but I really feel sorry for those of your down several hundred.

As for them trying to shift the blame onto Wayland Games that is absolutely disgusting behaviour. I for one won't be giving any business to the various companies that have appeared out of Maelstrom recently (Eye of the Storm, Mierce Minatures etc) and would hope others will do the same.

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/downloads/Maelstrom-Action.pdf

Thanks for an official reply! Just putting the body of the message here for the work-blocked:

09 Nov 2012

All in the Gaming Community,

As news of our action regarding Maelstrom Games is public we would like to take a moment to explain the steps we have taken, and why.

Some time ago we became aware of discussions at various events where there was a constant chatter about the financial situation that Maelstrom Games found itself in and the significant debts it suffered from. We ignored them to begin with but it seemed that in the events scene in the UK it was being discussed openly. We noticed that tickets were being sold a year in advance for some events. We then see hundreds of thousands of pounds being pushed into a miniatures line whilst Maelstrom Games still owed significant monies to suppliers. Suppliers we (and countless other retailers) share and rely upon for the timely distribution of product to fulfil our customer orders.

This industry is in our opinion, too small and too close for such a situation to occur, as the wider implications would mean hundreds of people - customers - you - potentially losing the money you had paid out for product and event tickets.

It was clear that Maelstrom Games Limited were in significant trouble, yet they continued to invest in other areas despite still owing very significant and growing amounts to suppliers causing a great deal of pressure on the supply chain.

In early May we decided to offer to buy Maelstrom Games, including honouring all liabilities for the business. Our email was ignored. In late May a follow up email was sent and again that was ignored.
We therefore looked to protect our customers by looking to protect the supply chain and also ourselves (as well as any of the other independent retailers who rely on this same supply chain) from the collapse of a major retailer, and managed to purchase the main debt that Maelstrom owe, in an attempt to force a resolution, rather than allow an uncontrolled collapse and all the knock on effects that would unleash on the industry.

The situation is complicated and there is quite a process to move through, but we are undertaking this action with the best of intentions for our customers, customers of Maelstrom Games and our supply chain, and will endeavor to keep all affected notified of developments as they occur.
We will be issuing information Via our Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/WaylandGamesLtd
And by email, subscribe here: http://eepurl.com/p-Wg1

Here I was typing a reply, to discover things already moved on with a bit of info from Wayland.

Vorlon@ As a retailer, I do not think it harsh.
We have a policy of refunding the money if we cannot get our hands on the goods (or expect it within a few days to arrive) within 10 workdays .

I 'll keep a tab on how this all works out.
At least Wayland informs the public through forums and such, as opposed to MS. Maybe in the hope that we'll all flock to EotS.
As if.......

It all seems very Noble from Wayland Games but I'm sure there is a lot more to this than any of us will know. Just as Maelstrom's statement puts Wayland as the 'Bad Guys', Wayland touts themselves as the Saviours of the Gaming community. Regardless of what is said, one of the largest competitors for any online hobby centre is now out of business and I can't see EOTS weathering this storm as I for one won't be putting any of my business their way.

Having said that I've just mail ordered from Wayland for the first time and was very impressed by their updates to the delivery of my parcel. I've just now placed a 2nd order with Firestorm Games and I'll see who I like best and they will recieve my business from now on.

Unfortunately I've lost in the region of around 150 - 200 GBP of store credit I'd built up with MS, I suppose I'm lucky its not 'real' money.

Does this make my purple Templates of Not-FOW collectible?

Squig, I have not taken this action lightly. Nor do I believe we are doing this from a sense of nobility we need to protect ourselves, but what is good for us generally will be good for our customers and suppliers too.. We do run our business ethically though and the way we operate is important to us. If a large number of internet buying customers are burnt, it impacts us too as confidence is knocked in all internet retailers. The supply chain is too small to not be impacted. I will also add that there are multiple trade creditors as well.

maelstrom ignoring emails surely not ./sarcasm off

They didn't communicate with their customers and it all when downhill, goes to show how important the customer base is.

rich1231 wrote:
Squig, I have not taken this action lightly. Nor do I believe we are doing this from a sense of nobility we need to protect ourselves, but what is good for us generally will be good for our customers and suppliers too.. We do run our business ethically though and the way we operate is important to us. If a large number of internet buying customers are burnt, it impacts us too as confidence is knocked in all internet retailers. The supply chain is too small to not be impacted. I will also add that there are multiple trade creditors as well.

Rich, you are doing it again, updating the community as to what is going on. Stop it!