I received two packs yesterday. Two items (out of six) are missing, i think there was some confusion on their side, so i hope they re-establish the communication lines at some point.

Another order i made this weekend has been dispatched.

So overall, they keep working and ship quite fast (even given the fact that i live on the other side of the channel).

Problems remain with the items on backorder from the supplier, i dont think we will see them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and by the way, i back rich1231 100% on his position. It is not because you are a CUSTOMER that you should not behave like a normal person. Wayland games has gained one customer on this one (ok, one from this mudhole called Belgium, i know...)

captain tanuki wrote:
I received two packs yesterday. Two items (out of six) are missing, i think there was some confusion on their side, so i hope they re-establish the communication lines at some point.

Argh, that must suck, and I'm hoping it doesn't happen to my most recent order. I don't relish the prospect of being in communications limbo and not knowing when/if I'll receive proper replacements.

The order I placed at the start of the sale had some problems with it, but they were still answering emails at that point, and it was quickly rectified. In fact, I came out ahead of the game, since I got to keep the model they mistakenly sent me (and then they ended up sending two copies of the proper model I'd ordered, for some reason).

Snippet of info i saw over on the Wyrd Forums, looks like SMG , the uk's biggest wargames distributor (Malifaux, Hordes/WM, Infinity, etc) have cut dies with Maelstrom due to the debt and sold on the debt to a debt collection company.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36615-Retro-Fate-Deck-out-of-stock&p=466860&viewfull=1#post466860

Valiant wrote:

Snippet of info i saw over on the Wyrd Forums, looks like SMG , the uk's biggest wargames distributor (Malifaux, Hordes/WM, Infinity, etc) have cut dies with Maelstrom due to the debt and sold on the debt to a debt collection company.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36615-Retro-Fate-Deck-out-of-stock&p=466860&viewfull=1#post466860

 The Stranger wrote:

Valiant wrote:

Snippet of info i saw over on the Wyrd Forums, looks like SMG , the uk's biggest wargames distributor (Malifaux, Hordes/WM, Infinity, etc) have cut dies with Maelstrom due to the debt and sold on the debt to a debt collection company.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36615-Retro-Fate-Deck-out-of-stock&p=466860&viewfull=1#post466860

The Pain Train has no brakes!!!!

Valiant wrote:

Snippet of info i saw over on the Wyrd Forums, looks like SMG , the uk's biggest wargames distributor (Malifaux, Hordes/WM, Infinity, etc) have cut dies with Maelstrom due to the debt and sold on the debt to a debt collection company.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36615-Retro-Fate-Deck-out-of-stock&p=466860&viewfull=1#post466860

Wellity wellity wellity.

Hope everyone put their claims in.

I can report that my sale items orderd on Saturday have arrived OK today,

that used up the last of my cashback so I'll leave things for now for Maelstrom to resolve in one way or another.

I hope everybody else gets their remaining stuff ok

Email today part of my order dispatched still short of £23 worth of order and no reply to my query re this as their site says no longer available on these other items


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone thought of selling this thread to hollywood make a damd exciting movie!!!!!!

Received a dispatch notification today for the main part of a split order, so hoping that arrives OK (my other on did).

That leaves me with the grand total of 1 bottle of Army Painter paint outstanding.

Just read that post on the Wyrd Forums - sounds bad for Maelstrom unless he get's lucky and whoever has bought the debt turns out to be a venture capitalist - they might even get an investment! - I'm being far too optimistic here aren't I?
More than likely someone else will take over and draw back all the company assets assuming the director hasn't done a runner to a non-extradition country!
Post a watch on the airports!

I'm waiting to see if my Paypal refund will make it to my account.....

Second and final order arrived today on schedule, missing the one item that was split as expected.

Can't see how there can be much longer to go before we hear something, there's nothing left!

NOOOO all my missing items including the mysterous, and now very suspect, sudden apperance items are malifaux

I've lost £50 haven't I....

Ahhh well this thread has told me one thing, shop next at Wayland, good communication :and attutiude -)

Am I the only one surprised by the fact that maelstrom games shop and eye of the storm shop have the same phone number and same address ?

But some items are labelled "in stock" at the eye of the storm but "out of stock" at maelstrom....

captain tanuki wrote:
Am I the only one surprised by the fact that maelstrom games shop and eye of the storm shop have the same phone number and same address ?

But some items are labelled "in stock" at the eye of the storm but "out of stock" at maelstrom....

Possibly

Maelstrom and EOTS are separate Ltd companies, despite sharing the same addresses and telephone numbers. It is common for companies to create shells or subsidiaries operating out of the same addresses.

EOTS stock will not be used to fulfill Maelstrom orders. EOTS Ltd (or whatever it's official title is) are not liable for Malestroms failures.

Valiant wrote:

Snippet of info i saw over on the Wyrd Forums, looks like SMG , the uk's biggest wargames distributor (Malifaux, Hordes/WM, Infinity, etc) have cut dies with Maelstrom due to the debt and sold on the debt to a debt collection company.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36615-Retro-Fate-Deck-out-of-stock&p=466860&viewfull=1#post466860

Do they have any other options for Infinity, like ordering directly from Corvus Belli? I really don't believe that they want to scam anyone, but it gets difficult to keep your promises when suppliers refuse to trade with you... Maybe Maelstrom will transfer the outstanding orders to EOTS and let that company complete the orders? Perhaps that's what the "MAEL" means? Some code to differentiate between regular EOTS business and the leftovers from MG?

They could try alternate distributors or direct from manufacturers if they aren't in debt to them too

(although they'll probably have to pay upfront, which could be one of the reasons for the sale)

I can't imagine EOTS will be able to buy from a distributor who cut off maelstrom (at least before debts are paid), but that would be up to the distributor, again maybe upfront cash would make it happen

 Mr. Burning wrote:

captain tanuki wrote:
Am I the only one surprised by the fact that maelstrom games shop and eye of the storm shop have the same phone number and same address ?

But some items are labelled "in stock" at the eye of the storm but "out of stock" at maelstrom....

Possibly

Maelstrom and EOTS are separate Ltd companies, despite sharing the same addresses and telephone numbers. It is common for companies to create shells or subsidiaries operating out of the same addresses.

EOTS stock will not be used to fulfill Maelstrom orders. EOTS Ltd (or whatever it's official title is) are not liable for Malestroms failures.

If it were that simple everyone would move their assets to another company the moment one was in trouble It's not and EotS (which I think has already had the company renamed as something else) only took the assets in the last 2 weeks so they likely will be liable for Maelstrom's failures.

Mierce was a dormant company before February this year so Banelegions is exposed as well.

 Baragash wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

captain tanuki wrote:
Am I the only one surprised by the fact that maelstrom games shop and eye of the storm shop have the same phone number and same address ?

But some items are labelled "in stock" at the eye of the storm but "out of stock" at maelstrom....

Possibly

Maelstrom and EOTS are separate Ltd companies, despite sharing the same addresses and telephone numbers. It is common for companies to create shells or subsidiaries operating out of the same addresses.

EOTS stock will not be used to fulfill Maelstrom orders. EOTS Ltd (or whatever it's official title is) are not liable for Malestroms failures.

If it were that simple everyone would move their assets to another company the moment one was in trouble It's not and EotS (which I think has already had the company renamed as something else) only took the assets in the last 2 weeks so they likely will be liable for Maelstrom's failures.

Mierce was a dormant company before February this year so Banelegions is exposed as well.

It is that simple. People do it all the time.

It's called a pre pack administration and is more tightly controlled than it once was but still doable and legal, if debatably moral.

From Maelstrom webpage:

No contract will subsist between you and Maelstrom Games Ltd for the sale by it to you of any product unless and until Maelstrom Games Ltd accepts your order by confirming that it has dispatched your product via an e-mail sent to your registered address. For the avoidance of doubt, any such contract will be deemed to have been concluded in England. Further, any such contract will be interpreted, construed and enforced in all respects in accordance with the laws.

I am no British legal expert since I am from Germany but if I read this correctly, does it mean that I do have no contract with maelstrom games until they ship my orders? I have almost 400€ of GW stuff ordered and am extremely worried right now. If no contract is existent, I tend to order my credit card company to withdraw all charged front payments by maelstrom games. If by accident they should deliver anything I would pay them again and reimburse MG with the penalty payment of the cc company.

Any suggestions would be nice. With the statement I am almost certain that no out of stock order will be fulfilled anymore.

Thx Lorien



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Lorien, your case is pretty straightforward : ask for a refund from your credit card company. There is absolutely no hope that MG will ship you GW stuff. Even if they wanted, they cannot order from GW anymore.

On a sidenote, i would not be worried about whats written on MG's webpage. It has no legal value. The legal rules for internet sales are pretty clear, if you have paid the contract exists. Period.

But that should not prevent you from making a claim to your credit card company as soon as possible !!!

Thank you for your quick reply! I will file a case straight away!

Can some UK lawyer tell, how bancruptcy works in the UK? In Germany there are rules that prevent a company close to bancruptcy to transfer money to other companies just to reduce the bankrupt's assets, a case of fraudulent bankruptcy.

Not as a lawyer but as a company director.

Limited companies don't go bankrupt they can choose to liquidate. Voluntary liquidation is at the choice of the directors, if there is sufficient money to pay all debts then it's a fairly straightforward procedure.

If this isn't the case then one or more creditors can petition to prevent the liquidation, equally creditors can petition for a company to be involuntarily liquidated if they want the money they are owed. This forces the sale of any and all company assets, usually overseen by independent administrators, and the proceeds are then divided amongst the creditors with those owed the most getting the largest share.

Until this point is reached, assuming the company is at least resembling normal trading conditions then all financial decisions are still in the hands of the directors.

The only safeguard against shady dealing is that if the directors can be proven to be financially negligent (ie drawing irresponsibly large salaries that don't relate to the company's financials) then they can be prosecuted.

You can also have "compulsory liquidation" forced on you by a Creditor, or another party. It goes through the Courts and is a well established procedure in the UK.

Failure to follow Legal and fiscal procedures can affect the Directors suitability to hold a similar position in a future company. Equally there are complicating factors such as monies owed to Banks or TAX.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins1510.htm

Hit next page it takes you through it pretty thoroughly, as you would expect. Winding up is a laid down procedure and has to be adhered to.

 azreal13 wrote:


equally creditors can petition for a company to be involuntarily liquidated if they want the money they are owed. This forces the sale of any and all company assets, usually overseen by independent administrators, and the proceeds are then divided amongst the creditors with those owed the most getting the largest share.

There an echo in here mwnciboo?

I nearly bought some of their remaining 'in stock' Flames of War stuff when I got the 40% off e-mail the other day. Reading some of these stories make me glad I didn't.

It's a real shame as Maelstrom have always been good to me in the past and they where my usual first stop for any gaming bits.

Oh well it looks like I'll be ordering from Wayland or Firestorm from now on.

 The Stranger wrote:

Valiant wrote:

Snippet of info i saw over on the Wyrd Forums, looks like SMG , the uk's biggest wargames distributor (Malifaux, Hordes/WM, Infinity, etc) have cut dies with Maelstrom due to the debt and sold on the debt to a debt collection company.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36615-Retro-Fate-Deck-out-of-stock&p=466860&viewfull=1#post466860

Is this the scipio's new avatar? Fits his theme btw.

OK. Sold!

Kroothawk, transfering assets from a company to another before liquidating it is a fraud in the UK (it is the same all over Europe, and in the US too). Some company directors dont know it, obviously, but it is still a fraud. Maximum penalty is 5 years of prison. .. (of course i dont think the director of Maelstrom will spend 5 years in jail for transfering two boxes of plastic soldiers..)


Ok, so now i received the missing items of my previous order , together with the order i made this weekend. Great news, except that in this last one, half the items are missing .... hope they will turn up in the coming days.

captain tanuki wrote:
Kroothawk, transfering assets from a company to another before liquidating it is a fraud in the UK (it is the same all over Europe, and in the US too). Some company directors dont know it, obviously, but it is still a fraud. Maximum penalty is 5 years of prison. .. (of course i dont think the director of Maelstrom will spend 5 years in jail for transfering two boxes of plastic soldiers..)

I had a quick swizz of the Insolvency Act and I understood that it's ok provided the receiving company paid market value for the assets.

Yes, if the transfer is made at market price, it is not a fraud. It is like a regular sale. I was talking of transfering for free.

I received the majority part of a split order today for Army Painter Paints. Unfortunately 2 of the paints (Alien Purple & Dragon Red) are missing.

I've contacted them about this via their 'contact us' section, but I'm not holding my breath on getting a response.

If i look at my last package, the value of the missing items is 75% of the order (although everything is in stock) i really hope a second package will show up...

LuciusAR wrote:Oh well it looks like I'll be ordering from Wayland or Firestorm from now on.

For Flames of War, The Troll Trader is also a good source. Their stock levels are rock solid (unlike Wayland

I post here my situation with Maelstrom Games : I did a (small, 30€) paypal order 6 weeks ago for hobby furnitures.

Recently, seeing my order still "in processing", I tried to contact MG by email without success.

Being close to the 45 days limit for a paypal complaint, I then chose to open a dispute (In the meantime I discovered, looking at various forums, that their paypal account is most likely empty and/or closed). This was a few days ago.

Today, my order has been canceled (as requested in my dispute), but no refund has been issued yet.

I am glad that my order was kept small (and I feel sorry for the ones who spent several hundreds of € to MG).

I just sent them another email expressely asking for an immediate refund. Although I have few hopes this will eventually be happily solved, I'll keep updated the status of my dispute here.

Well, i to have opened disputes for what i had left standing open. One order is to old (from juli) the rest is now being processed, lets hope for the best.
Over the passed two weeks i tried to contact maelstrom through the contact form but it seems like they've simply stopped responding at all.

Edit:
it seems that in response to the claim maelstrom has cancelled the orders, however, no money has been returned yet, that might be on paypals side still though so i'll wait and see what happens.

the problem is that for some reasons they are only completing some orders, and ignoring the rest, I have alost 100 pounds in orders and I don´t like to make all the cancelation proscess. but not having news from them is something that is boring me at all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Starweaver wrote:
Well, i to have opened disputes for what i had left standing open. One order is to old (from juli) the rest is now being processed, lets hope for the best.
Over the passed two weeks i tried to contact maelstrom through the contact form but it seems like they've simply stopped responding at all.

the one of Juy, yo did it by paypal or by your CC???

Paypal, i do not have a cc :(

If you havent initiated a charge back and used paypal I would initiate a dispute before you get to 45 days.

Maelstrom hasnt responded to my emails in about a month and never shipped anything from my order.

I initiated a dispute via paypal, maelstrom cancelled my order but still no money back nor have they responded to the dispute.

It seems they are just trying to wait things out and keep/take as much money as possible before the end.....its really what it looks like at this point.

I have a question. What happens if you have won the claim through Paypal, but Maelstrom has emptied the connected bankaccount so there can be no charge back?
I mean if they have burnt the bridges with major suppliers, I dont think that they would care much about Paypal. Is there any other way for Paypal to claim money back?

Well you're screwed (and I am also)...

As paypal is not more available at payment stage in their website, I assume that we lost our money...

Twinky wrote:
Well you're screwed (and I am also)...

As paypal is not more available at payment stage in their website, I assume that we lost our money...

Paypal's notice said to wait about 7 working days. Thats next Wednesday. After that I ll contact the bank. The problem is that I shop through a visa cashcard not credit card. Generally Im against credit cards and credit whatsoever.

Well for what it's worth i know that paypal can reclaim money even if it exceeds the amount that is in the bank account tied to the paypal account, the question though is if it will happen here, looks like those who haven't yet received refunds will not get any :(

I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Well, I am pretty worried right here. I made an order of about 200£ from them, and all of my attempts to contact them has failed. They do not answer e-mails, and I do not get any answer when I call them (I get a busy signal, or an answering machine saying that the number is not operational when I call with my mobile phone). I did not pay via Paypal, but through a MasterCard cashcard.

I have no idea how to proceed. I live in Sweden btw.

 Marzillius wrote:
Well, I am pretty worried right here. I made an order of about 200£ from them, and all of my attempts to contact them has failed. They do not answer e-mails, and I do not get any answer when I call them (I get a busy signal, or an answering machine saying that the number is not operational when I call with my mobile phone). I did not pay via Paypal, but through a MasterCard cashcard.

I have no idea how to proceed. I live in Sweden btw.

Call your bank and explain the situation to them?

Some banks have insurance even on their cashcard cards, you may get your money back that way.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Marzillius wrote:
Well, I am pretty worried right here. I made an order of about 200£ from them, and all of my attempts to contact them has failed. They do not answer e-mails, and I do not get any answer when I call them (I get a busy signal, or an answering machine saying that the number is not operational when I call with my mobile phone). I did not pay via Paypal, but through a MasterCard cashcard.

I have no idea how to proceed. I live in Sweden btw.

Call your bank and explain the situation to them?

Some banks have insurance even on their cashcard cards, you may get your money back that way.

I just called the bank and signed a reclaim-thingy (do not really know the word in english, but it means getting the money back). Hopefully I should get the money from the bank in a few weeks.

Just sad really, I couldn't play in 3 tournaments because my Chaos codex didn't arrive in time.

captain tanuki wrote:
I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Well I didn't look at the recent user's agreement of paypal, but a few years ago, to make a refund, paypal made transfer from one paypal account (the abuser) to another paypal account (the abused), never from credit cards, and never from their own money.

It looks obvious to me (at least in my country) : only government agencies or justice can get money directly from your bank account, without your consent. Which means that if they dropped their paypal account to 0, then paypal can not refund us...

captain tanuki wrote:
I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Actually, paypal states on their own site under buyer protection that you will get your money back if there's sufficient funds in the seller's account

Well so far in over 5 years of using paypal I have only had to reclaim money once, long ago.

In that case it was before many of the policies they have now and due to time and lies from the seller I ended up using my credit card company to get the money back.

Luckily I used a credit card this time as well as I was worried their might be an issue. So if paypal refuses I will resort to my credit card company to get the money back. Esp as I contested within paypals 45 days.

The purpose of using paypal is so you as the buyer have security in your purchases, otherwise its a pointless costly service. So they shouldnt refuse as long as its in the 45 day timeline.

chaos45 wrote:
paypal is so you as the buyer have security in your purchases, otherwise its a pointless costly service. So they shouldnt refuse as long as its in the 45 day timeline.

I'm sorry but this just isn't true. About two years ago I had to put in a claim that while I won the claim I got no money back because Paypal had no way to get money from the seller. It was only $20 so not really a huge deal but unless they have changed things you aren't guaranteed to get your money back. The purpose of Paypal is ease of use and the ability to buy things over the Internet without using a credit card.

Right off the paypal site, only stipulation is must be done within 45 days:

Purchase Protection
If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

Hello, I 'm new on this forum. But i have the same problem with maelstrom games
I'm client from maelstrom games since a lot of years and i live in Belgium.
During these years, i have spent a lot of money to maelstrom without any problems. But

This month i have ordered a lot with their fantastic promotion. Several orders and all the items were in stock. but hey don't send anything.
I have also two order since august they don't send it.
Generally, i'm very patient. but now i'm very not satisfy with maelstrom.
Last week they send a order with 3 napoleon at war items.(normally in stock)..they have split the order (somme items are not in stock)..but i have received anything about these order.

This week, they send me a second order (all the items was normally in this package)....I have received it today and i was very surprise. there was only a minimum part of my orders. about 20% of my order.
The 5 napoleon at war items was not in the package and the napoleon at war bases (actually in stock???) was not either in the package.

I desesperate now to received my other orders and the missing items. I have send a protestation email and now i have contest all the transaction to paypal....

I 'll now try to contest the other transaction to my visa card company.

I'have lost confidence to maelstrom games.... They are thieves. If i m not refund i'll lost more hundred of GBpounds.

chaos45 wrote:
Right off the paypal site, only stipulation is must be done within 45 days:

Purchase Protection
If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

I believe the policies plus what paypal can actually do are different in every country.

Good luck people, I have only one item outstanding from Maelstrom, i'm going to keep my fingers crossed, as I doubt a paypal claim will get me anywhere at this stage.

Twinky wrote:

captain tanuki wrote:
I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Well I didn't look at the recent user's agreement of paypal, but a few years ago, to make a refund, paypal made transfer from one paypal account (the abuser) to another paypal account (the abused), never from credit cards, and never from their own money.

It looks obvious to me (at least in my country) : only government agencies or justice can get money directly from your bank account, without your consent. Which means that if they dropped their paypal account to 0, then paypal can not refund us...

chaos45 wrote:
Right off the paypal site, only stipulation is must be done within 45 days:

Purchase Protection
If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

Indeed, if you have done everything right, Paypal should reimburse you the lost money, even if that means they lose money themselves.

Nounoursdub wrote:
Hello, I 'm new on this forum. But i have the same problem with maelstrom games
I'm client from maelstrom games since a lot of years and i live in Belgium.
During these years, i have spent a lot of money to maelstrom without any problems. But

This month i have ordered a lot with their fantastic promotion. Several orders and all the items were in stock. but hey don't send anything.
I have also two order since august they don't send it.
Generally, i'm very patient. but now i'm very not satisfy with maelstrom.
Last week they send a order with 3 napoleon at war items.(normally in stock)..they have split the order (somme items are not in stock)..but i have received anything about these order.

This week, they send me a second order (all the items was normally in this package)....I have received it today and i was very surprise. there was only a minimum part of my orders. about 20% of my order.
The 5 napoleon at war items was not in the package and the napoleon at war bases (actually in stock???) was not either in the package.

I desesperate now to received my other orders and the missing items. I have send a protestation email and now i have contest all the transaction to paypal....

I 'll now try to contest the other transaction to my visa card company.


I'have lost confidence to maelstrom games.... They are thieves. If i m not refund i'll lost more hundred of GBpounds.

Let's organise a trip to the store

I also have items 'processing' as an order at Maelstrom. Paypal could tell me that I was too late getting a refund (more then 45 days). On advice from the Wyrd thread (which I started), I contacted the Dutch Customer Centre. For the Dutchies I will post the reply I got here.

I am also planning to try and get the money back through my bank. Had contact with Paypal about this, as I paid through Paypal meaning the payment from my bank is made to Paypal. The question I asked regarding this - whether I would just rip of Paypal this way - got me a weird answer. Not a direct answer to my question, but an explanation that if I got the money back through the bank they have to verify my bank account.

Just hoping this helps someone else out as well. Sorry for all the Dutch

The mail from ECCNL:

Geachte heer [...],

Hierbij bevestigen wij de goede ontvangst van uw e-mail d.d. 24 oktober jl. met betrekking tot uw klacht over de Engelse ondernemer Maelstrom Games. Naar aanleiding hiervan willen wij you berichten over het volgende.

Het Europees Consumenten Centrum (ECC) kan you als consument informeren over uw rechten en plichten in een lidstaat van de Europese Unie, Noorwegen en IJsland. Het ECC doet bovendien aan klachtbemiddeling als you zelf met de buitenlandse verkoper niet tot een oplossing bent gekomen. De medewerking van beide partijen blijft daarvoor onmisbaar. Het ECC advies en de bemiddelingsservice zijn kosteloos.

In uw e-mail geeft you aan dat you online een aankoop heeft gedaan bij de ondernemer Maelstrom Games op 23 augustus. U heeft echter een deel van uw bestelling ontvangen, maar een deel ter waarde van €45,51 heeft you nog niet ontvangen.

Volgens de Europese Richtlijn betreffende een koop op afstand, dient de ondernemer uw bestelling uiterlijk binnen 30 dagen aan you te leveren, vanaf de dag volgend op het plaatsten van uw bestelling. Indien uw bestelling niet naar toegezonden kan worden omdat het niet beschikbaar is, moet de koper daarover geïnformeerd worden en de mogelijkheid krijgen om de overgemaakte betaling zo snel mogelijk en in elk geval binnen 30 dagen terug te ontvangen. Aangezien you uw koop ruim twee maanden geleden besteld heeft, is de ondernemer te laat met het leveren van uw koop.

Voordat wij uw klacht nader kunnen bestuderen, verzoeken wij you vriendelijk het online klachtenformulier op onze website in te vullen (http://www.eccnl.eu/). Wij willen you vragen om aan het formulier alle relevante documenten als bijlagen toe te voegen.

Na ontvangst van het online klachtenformulier en de bijbehorende bijlagen, zullen wij uw klacht ter bestudering doorsturen naar het ECC te Engeland. Onze collega’s zullen uw rechtspositie vervolgens bestuderen en afhankelijk daarvan contact opnemen met de ondernemer. Het contact verloopt via ons, wij zullen you op de hoogte houden van de voortgang in de behandeling van uw klacht.

Tot slot willen wij you er op wijzen dat het ECC- Netwerk buitengerechtelijk is. Dit betekent dat wij buiten de rechter om proberen tot een oplossing te komen. Mocht de ondernemer niet mee willen werken aan de bemiddeling, dan kan het ECC hem hiertoe niet dwingen.
Met vriendelijke groet,

The mail from Paypal:

Beste [...],

Bedankt dat you contact heeft opgenomen met PayPal

Wanneer you uw bankl opdracht geeft om het geld terug te vorderen houdt you dan rekening met het volgende:

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Automatically Appended Next Post:

 devilution wrote:

Let's organise a trip to the store

TBH, the reply from Paypal they couldn't help me did include a line that if enough people complained, they will investigate. So ganging up on MG might actually help there

So everyone is clear, even though MG have removed paypal as a payment option you will still get your money back if you open a dispute.

How do I know?
I just got mine back yesterday.

Maelstrom Games owe me £119 in orders, which I put in 15th of august, and those orders are still being processed.

Several attempts at contacting MG have resulted in "order will be shipped between 5-10 working days" or "order has bin split up due to some items out of stock."

Thanks for the info, JamieisOOP.

It appears like several orders are dropping in, more and more by the day by reading on different forums. It's quite obvious that MG is having problems, that's a no-brainer. And even more obvious would the fact be that if MG communicated with their customers a lot of hating would settle... But, considering that people do get their orders, perhaps they should be given some more patience. The more people that scream for refund, the more problems MG will be getting into.

I've got an order for £250 with them that is "processing", so I am in there with the rest of you lot, so I ain't taking sides. It's just that if they are trying to sort this out (to the best of their ability) it will just cause more problems for us who got standing orders the more other orders that are cancelled and forced to refund.

Grefven, you can keep faith if you want but from what Ive been reading Maelstrom owes at least 1 distributor alot as well and they have stopped doing business with them.

When distributors quit doing business with you due to unpaid bills its a pretty bad sign.

I got that bit from the wyrd games forums.

It really appears they have hit the point of okay just get as much money as possible then stonewall responses to customers in hopes that enough time passes we still make off with some cash stage because they cant charge back to us or we have moved the money so much it cant be taken back from us.

All I see delivered though is stuff that was in stock. I haven't seen a single person posting that they got items that were not in stock when ordered. And the post on wyrd forums makes it pretty clear that they won't get anymore items from them. Going from there I am pretty certain that the same goes for Games Workshop. News of financial problems spread very fast among supplying companies and credit limits are withdrawn even faster.

If they wanted to scam people out of money, they would surely continue to respond to e-mails, etc. telling everyone it's alright before shutting down.

I ain't arguing that something isn't wrong. It obviously is. I am saying to cut them some slack. Once the snowball effect starts, it is hard to stop it even with good intentions.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I dont think they're trying to scam anyone. Seems kinda unlikely to build a business in the way Maelstrom did and then just trash your reputation.

But... The news of this thread has reached them long ago. So why hasn't they stated to people with outstanding orders - containing items from when you could order 'everything' - that they would either get a refund or something similar? They are just as much part of the snowball effect as we are, if not more.

Perhaps it's [their demise] inevitable now, but some assurance that the money you spent on out of stock items isn't spent and will go to getting you your order would have been nice to have. Three weeks ago. Before this spiraled out of their control. Before they sent all these sale e-mails begging us for cash in order to fulfill earlier orders...

TL,DR; Slack has been given. Time for Maelstrom to fess up and try to save what reputation they have left.

grefven wrote:
It appears like several orders are dropping in, more and more by the day by reading on different forums. It's quite obvious that MG is having problems, that's a no-brainer. And even more obvious would the fact be that if MG communicated with their customers a lot of hating would settle... But, considering that people do get their orders, perhaps they should be given some more patience. The more people that scream for refund, the more problems MG will be getting into.

I've got an order for £250 with them that is "processing", so I am in there with the rest of you lot, so I ain't taking sides. It's just that if they are trying to sort this out (to the best of their ability) it will just cause more problems for us who got standing orders the more other orders that are cancelled and forced to refund.

So you think it is OK, that your order is based on still more order from others so MS can then buy the stuff you ordered?

Noir wrote:

grefven wrote:
It appears like several orders are dropping in, more and more by the day by reading on different forums. It's quite obvious that MG is having problems, that's a no-brainer. And even more obvious would the fact be that if MG communicated with their customers a lot of hating would settle... But, considering that people do get their orders, perhaps they should be given some more patience. The more people that scream for refund, the more problems MG will be getting into.

I've got an order for £250 with them that is "processing", so I am in there with the rest of you lot, so I ain't taking sides. It's just that if they are trying to sort this out (to the best of their ability) it will just cause more problems for us who got standing orders the more other orders that are cancelled and forced to refund.

So you think it is OK, that your order is based on still more order from others so MS can then buy the stuff you ordered?

To be honest there's nothing wrong with that particular business model provided the cash is kept within the company, rather than say ohhh being used to renovate your store or start a new line of minatures.
Mind you given that Maelstrom owes half a million to there suppliers which seems to me to mean they have paid for more or less nothing in the last year, but yet they have been selling product and taking pre orders but the company has no cash makes you wonder where it's all gone.
They cannot jave blown it all on Rob's vanity projects can they and it also implies to me that thos wsnot just bad managment.

Mierce!

I wonder if out friends at maelstrom have not started a new tactic : shipping half the items of orders, while labelling them as completed. I had this, and i read on TMP that other people have experienced exactly the same.

captain tanuki wrote:
I wonder if out friends at maelstrom have not started a new tactic : shipping half the items of orders, while labelling them as completed. I had this, and i read on TMP that other people have experienced exactly the same.

That's a wonderful tactic! Everything is 40% off, but since they ship only half the stuff it's really a 20% mark-up... Genious!!!

Yes, this is my case too. They send me two napoleon at war order from the fantastic promotion.

The first never arrive....and in the secong there was just 20% of the order....but it's indicate the order is complete.....

The promotion was 60% but they reduced the order items from 80 %.

My reaction was to claim refund from paypal and by visa...

My relation with maelstrom is finish.

I'have more than 750£ actually order on maelstrom site. I have order a lot with the promotion.....but it was a very bad affair.

Have a bit of stuff on order - shipped yesterday my Uncharted Seas ships to my painter - see if he gets them - if so thats not too bad.

Have had good run with maelstrom with about a grand spent on them prior to recent issues, but hopefully it should get sorted out.

Of the 6 items in my order, 2 were GW (out of stock), and 4 were in-stock clearance.
These were split into 2 orders on Monday. I'd asked for a cancellation on Sunday, but I doubt they're read it be then.

3 of the clearance items just arrived, with 1 missing from the order, despite being listed as completed on the status.
I've asked for the GW items to be cancelled, with 3 weeks to refund the value.

I notice they have hardly any Likes on Facebook any more.
There's no comments listed either. Was that always the case?

This just in:

Hi there,

Thanks to stockchecking just about everything, once more here at Maelstrom Games (www.maelstromgames.co.uk) we have decided to clear as much of our hard-earned stock as we possibly can over the next few days and to that end, all our remaining stock will now be sold at 70% off UK RRP except for Battlefront Miniatures and Mierce Miniatures, which will be sold at 50% off UK RRP and Templar's Forge at 75% off. We still hold some stocks of Battlefront (it's worth checking!), Gamezone Miniatures, Dark Age, Cool Mini or Not and Scibor Miniatures, and there's a few bits of Games Workshop, Privateer Press and Malifaux left too. These sales don't come along very often - so take advantage of it, as this is our FINAL stock sale and it WILL end on Monday the 29th of October! Grab a bargain now!


I wonder when we'll have the very, definite, ultimate final warehouse clearance of destiny?

The code is

"FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE"

Final-Final-Final-Stock-sale code coming next?

They have a strange tactic. They don't send complete order normaly in stock. They send a little part of the stock order time to time. But they continue fantastic promotion 70% to abuse a lot of client.

I suggest the other client to be carreful because maelstrom games don't send the order from the clearence deal.

For me maelstrom games is finish

I have lose too much money with there clearence deal.

RoninXiC wrote:
The code is

"FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE"

Final-Final-Final-Stock-sale code coming next?

I assume this must be the FINALER FINALER SALE...

Just got this:

Thanks to stockchecking just about everything, once more here at Maelstrom Games (www.maelstromgames.co.uk) we have decided to clear as much of our hard-earned stock as we possibly can over the next few days and to that end, all our remaining stock will now be sold at 70% off UK RRP except for Battlefront Miniatures and Mierce Miniatures, which will be sold at 50% off UK RRP and Templar's Forge at 75% off. We still hold some stocks of Battlefront (it's worth checking!), Gamezone Miniatures, Dark Age, Cool Mini or Not and Scibor Miniatures, and there's a few bits of Games Workshop, Privateer Press and Malifaux left too. These sales don't come along very often - so take advantage of it, as this is our FINAL stock sale and it WILL end on Monday the 29th of October! Grab a bargain now!

Note the removal of the self-incriminatory truth in advertising from before.

More like final final p##s take. Received part of my order today. I've had enough and have advised paypal to return the balance in cash of my order

What's the official way of canceling an order? I'm guessing it's by e-mail, but they don't really seem to be responding to them? Either way, I'm contacting my issuing bank tomorrow about this so that I can get my money back. I think I've been patient enough.

My update is much the same as everybody else's:

Ordered 4 minis, and 2 hardback rulebooks.
Received 3 minis, and 1 hardback rulebook.

My moneyback had been sitting there for a long time, and iirc a big chunk of it was originally an accounting error on their part that they refused to correct, so I'm not sure if I'll bother with a CC chargeback.

RoninXiC wrote:
The code is

"FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE"

Final-Final-Final-Stock-sale code coming next?

"Greetings from Hawaii... suckerzzz!!"

Beast of war has put a link on its website , giving tips on what to do when a store goes bankrupt . Useful.

http://www.beastsofwar.com/bow-article/when-hobby-store-goes-bankrupt/

RoninXiC wrote:
The code is

"FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE"

Final-Final-Final-Stock-sale code coming next?

Next code will be "we never believed you could be THAT stupid"

Friend just reccently got his packed of banelords/-beasts worth of over 300 pounds (actually worth 600 pounds)... so they ARE sending out models.. most of them... most of the time ...

RoninXiC wrote:
Friend just reccently got his packed of banelords/-beasts worth of over 300 pounds (actually worth 600 pounds)... so they ARE sending out models.. most of them... most of the time ...

They are. IF they have it in stock. If not, well, it might just be signed off as completed and not be in the box.

I'm really confused about all this. They seem to be sending out stuff that was still in stock but otherwise refuse to answer emails or phone calls.
They are losing support from miniature suppliers yet opening a "new" shop called eye of the storm.

Can't someone who lives close by go there and ask what the hell is going on?

It would be something if everybody got their order in due time and Maelstrom would send out a newsletter, minus discount code, being all la-di-da about how well their move went while pretending that nothing whatsoever was going on behind the scenes.

Well I've got my refund from paypal so i'm out, goodluck all

I don't really believe that maelstrom will ever make a come back. After all this their credibility is destroyed at all levels. To resurrect the company would take more funds than setting up a new. Pay the suppliers, pay upfront for several new orders, launch a campaign of tremendous sales, in order to lure back few brave customers. Then provide excellent and speedy service until the word of mouth spreads and they can be considered safe again.

meanwille, all the good costumers that lost our money on the last months have to wait wath??

mateldar wrote:
meanwille, all the good costumers that lost our money on the last months have to wait wath??

Second Coming


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just got my money back
Praise Paypal

 The Stranger wrote:
I don't really believe that maelstrom will ever make a come back. After all this their credibility is destroyed at all levels. To resurrect the company would take more funds than setting up a new. Pay the suppliers, pay upfront for several new orders, launch a campaign of tremendous sales, in order to lure back few brave customers. Then provide excellent and speedy service until the word of mouth spreads and they can be considered safe again.

Again, I advise the reader to read up on New Wave Games and that company's relationship to CMON.

Just got a paint order arrive...

3 paints... was meant to be 18! And I have 2 more sets that are still processing
NOT IMPRESSED!

Sent them a request to make up the missing section in a Talos from Darklands. But if I don't here back in 5 days I will start the chargeback process).

Just got this in an email;
"This is just a reminder that the stock sale ends TONIGHT - and here at Maelstrom Games (www.maelstromgames.co.uk) we've still got quite good stocks of certain ranges, so Battlefront Miniatures' products will be reduced to 60% off UK RRP to clear, with EVERYTHING else at 80% off UK RRP except for Darklands/BaneLegions at 50% off. We still have some Games Workshop, Privateer Press and Malifaux, too! These sales don't come along very often - so take advantage of it, as this is our FINAL stock sale and it WILL end tonight, Monday the 22nd of October! Grab a bargain now!"

ted1138 wrote:
Just got this in an email;
"This is just a reminder that the stock sale ends TONIGHT - and here at Maelstrom Games (www.maelstromgames.co.uk) we've still got quite good stocks of certain ranges, so Battlefront Miniatures' products will be reduced to 60% off UK RRP to clear, with EVERYTHING else at 80% off UK RRP except for Darklands/BaneLegions at 50% off. We still have some Games Workshop, Privateer Press and Malifaux, too! These sales don't come along very often - so take advantage of it, as this is our FINAL stock sale and it WILL end tonight, Monday the 22nd of October! Grab a bargain now!"

I just got that as well. I've checked and I can't see a single Battlefront product in stock.

I'm not sure what remaining stock they are supposed to be encouraging us to buy.

I had a quick look out of morbid curiosity and couldn't see any GW, Malifaux or PP stuff. I think at this point, they are probably just copy/pasting the text from the previous week's email flyer and adjusting the discount percentage.

So, has Maelstrom finished taking the biscuit now?

Finally?

Well, I got another "dont miss out!!1!!! sale ends soon!!1!" email from them four hours ago, so we're not quite there yet.

Then there's clearly going to be a drawn-out post-mortem.

I think there are still a few orphanange base inserts left for Malifaux

but other than that the webstore looks just about empty

Yeah, I got that e-mail too.

I'm still owed 2 paints from a supposedly completed order, and 1 paint still showing as processing.

I did contact them about it - no response yet, and frankly I don't expect one either.

By now I think we are past the biscuit stage, and on to mopping up the crumbs with a licked finger.

Anyway I guess fairly soon we shall see what we shall see.

They have a couple of limited edition kingdom death models that look interesting(80% off), might pick up a "Sunstalker Infant", as it's now out of stock on the maker's web site, so should go up in value...

ted1138 wrote:
They have a couple of limited edition kingdom death models that look interesting(80% off), might pick up a "Sunstalker Infant", as it's now out of stock on the maker's web site, so should go up in value...

No wonder MS are in trouble, why buy a gak ton of those when their are more popular lines to be had? I reckon the reason they are sitting there is that no one likes it very much. So much for an investment purchase.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

ted1138 wrote:
They have a couple of limited edition kingdom death models that look interesting(80% off), might pick up a "Sunstalker Infant", as it's now out of stock on the maker's web site, so should go up in value...

No wonder MS are in trouble, why buy a gak ton of those when their are more popular lines to be had? I reckon the reason they are sitting there is that no one likes it very much. So much for an investment purchase.

Well, most other sold out KD models are going for a premium on ebay, so I'm hoping to turn a profit on this one...

http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/sunstalker-infant

http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/wet-nurse

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KINGDOM-DEATH-WET-NURSE-35MM-BOUTIQUE-HORROR-RESIN-FIGURE-NEW-MIB-/221113497652?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item337b643834&nma=true&si=oZLruRGRu3KtDc8yeZVne9PTfpE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 Alpharius wrote:
So, has Maelstrom finished taking the biscuit now?

Finally?

Biscuit, pack, Box, Biscuit Factory and warehouse..

Maybe we need to just grab a pillow and smother it, put an end to the prolonged throes of dying?

No,

Despite the (allegedly) large debts they are also owed substantial sums of money (but not enough to cover the debt)

so leaving them alone means as this comes in there is more chance that customers will get their stuff and suppliers will be paid

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
No,

Despite the large debts (that are recorded by MG and are available for perusal) they are also owed substantial sums of money (but not enough to cover the debt)

so leaving them alone means that some suppliers will get some cash but not enough to cover the debt. Customers will always loose out.

Fixed that for you!

Come on Mr Burning that's unfair.

It would be like an on going games related pyramid scheme, what could possibly go wrong?......


[cough]Fairpack[cough]

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
No,

Despite the (allegedly) large debts they are also owed substantial sums of money (but not enough to cover the debt)

so leaving them alone means as this comes in there is more chance that customers will get their stuff and suppliers will be paid

Coincidentally, I just found a relevant phrase from a completely unrelated source: "foam the runway".

If a company is in trouble before having to obtain an infusion of cash, foaming the runway will usually just delay the inevitable. Prudent investors should not assume that a cash infusion will save a company, and should carefully review all available information before making an investment decision.

Got my Paypal funds back safely in my account today.

Now to call the credit card company on the rest...

Stuff STILL have not shown up yet despite having been marked as dispatched 2 weeks go.

Other half still 'processing'

ALL INSTOCK ITEMS when I ordered!

What is the current discount code?
They seem to have allot of banelords etc in stock, they are probably pumping out as many as they can with whatever resin stock they have remaining.

I guess one idea would be to buy allot of banelords etc as they seem to be shipping those out, then when you received them do a paypal dispute to get your money back.
That way you could get part of what they owe you back if it's gone past the 45 day mark and you are unable to get your money back through paypal.

The current code is "FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE"

I too noticed they had a large stock left on their Banelegions/Darklands/whatever you want to call it stuff.

Might be a good time to get it at 50% off, but I couldn't find anything I really wanted in there. (It doesn't help that they don't have pictures, so you have to surf two sites parrallel to browse).

I was tempted to buy an Ahandaro - the last Freebooter's Fate mini they had (poor unloved things - they've sat relatively untouched this whole sale while the rest of the line disappeared) but I couldn't find enough stuff to get free shipping.

 Alpharius wrote:
So, has Maelstrom finished taking the biscuit now?

Finally?

Nope! I still got mine! They're yummy!

Schmapdi wrote:
The current code is "FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE"

The FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE code doesn't work, it has expired it seems.

Don't worry I would expect a Final-Final-Final-Stock-Sale by lunchtime today

On another note I received my refund from paypal as the seller did not respond and the CAB have advised they will pass my concerns onto maelstroms local trading standards.

I just got the Banelegions Tarask and Chimera this morning. They were posted on the 15th, so this bodes well for Aussies that are waiting around 2/3 weeks after it was marked posted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
The FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE code doesn't work, it has expired it seems.

I can second this... was thinking about getting more Banelegions... but the code isn't working.

I received my Scibor "GUO" and my Bane Legions Krull ordered on the 17th October at 50% off. Less than two weeks to arrive in NZ, fine by me

So people are still getting their funds back through paypal? Paypal found in my favour but I'm wondering if I have to wait the full 7 days for the refund to show. I put in 3 disputes totaling £190.00 and paypal say I'm getting it all back.

I've used Maelstrom for years and have spent lots with them. I live in NZ and they have been great but the recent lack of communication and refusals to respond to emails, phone calls etc mean I will never deal with them again.

OK, today a package came in (was shipped on 17/10/12, order was placed on 09/10/12 ). The rest is still processing. In the light of previous posts, it sucks that shipping to NZ tends to be faster than delivery to continental Europe.

Royal Mail has a burning hatred for the continent, it's nothing new sadly.

 Makaleth wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
The FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE code doesn't work, it has expired it seems.

I can second this... was thinking about getting more Banelegions... but the code isn't working.

In fairness to Maelstrom, the last email did say that the code would expire at midnight GMT on Monday October 22nd (though given the last email with it was sent on the 29th, I'm assuming they meant the 29th).

 Dysartes wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
The FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE code doesn't work, it has expired it seems.

I can second this... was thinking about getting more Banelegions... but the code isn't working.

In fairness to Maelstrom, the last email did say that the code would expire at midnight GMT on Monday October 22nd (though given the last email with it was sent on the 29th, I'm assuming they meant the 29th).

Either that or they're hoping someone invents a time machine to use the code, and in the process solves these problems

Holy Gak! Here at Maelstrom our ineptitude at stock taking has enabled us to uncover yet more product that may or may not be available for our loyal (snigger) customers to buy. To this end we are having a penultimate final clearance sale. Everything must go! In order to take advantage of this fantastic offer just input the code HONEST ROB at checkout to be gifted a 90% discount. Customers that are not in the United Isles of Britannia can be assured that stock they may have ordered previously may be sent, or not.

Hohoho you almost had me there

Although I don't think there is any stock left now in any case?

There is a an article on Beasts of War which may be useful for anyone who has spent money and not yet received models, and wants to know the options open to them:
http://www.beastsofwar.com/bow-article/when-hobby-store-goes-bankrupt/

 Dysartes wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
The FINAL-FINAL-STOCK-SALE code doesn't work, it has expired it seems.

I can second this... was thinking about getting more Banelegions... but the code isn't working.

In fairness to Maelstrom, the last email did say that the code would expire at midnight GMT on Monday October 22nd (though given the last email with it was sent on the 29th, I'm assuming they meant the 29th).

It certainly worked yesterday so the must have meant 29th. There's still some stock there so I wouldn't be surprised if there was another email.

What I don't get is that 80% off I'm able to get new stuff for a fraction of the used price, so would have stocked up on things to sell on if I had the cash, so why haven't they just fired the remaining stock on eBay with no reserve?

I think the 80% off is a joke... read it closely.

This morning I received the paints I bought on October 9th or 10th. They were posted on the 15th according to Maelstrom (13th was the date on the posting label). I ordered items with decent stock levels (lowest stock number on any one item was 3) and I received the order in full. Total order value was just over £20. Make of it what you will. I for one am relieved and pleased with what I've received.

You're lucky. I have an order that I placed nearly 2 months ago, and I still haven't received it. It's too late to open up a Paypal dispute, but I never planned on doing so anyway. I still have faith in the Maelstrom Games that had excellent service.

That Maelstrom is gone. In case you hadn't noticed, the service has ended.

"Foaming the Runway"!! I love it when stupid things like this become common business parlance. My current despised term at work is "Coop-petition" e.g partners on one project and competitors on another. Management speak is a crime against the English Language, I had a Director tell me "Make it common, a one size fits all solution, you know make it Genetic" I replied "I think you mean Generic?" *Awkward Silence* Director Walks off - Bang goes my chance of promotion this year!

OT, this has been a long drawn out process hasn't it? I am impressed at several people's faith, which is commendable if a little mis-placed. Kind of like all those People in face of that once in 50 year Storm last night , who stood on the Boardwalk in Atlantic City saying "I really didn't think it was going to be this bad!".

Our absolutely final warehouse sale: Get 50% on office furniture, used computers, shelves and ... a warehouse. CODE is "Maya Calender".

Just kidding

 Makaleth wrote:
I think the 80% off is a joke... read it closely.

The 90% off on here was a joke, yes, but the 80% off sale was real (I used it).

I just don't get why they are continuing with these increasingly desperate clearance sales when they'd probably get more money if they stuck everything on ebay, since there really isn't that much stock left to list. There are probably still some nuggets on there though and absolute bargains but they take some searching.

Herzlos wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:
I think the 80% off is a joke... read it closely.

The 90% off on here was a joke, yes, but the 80% off sale was real (I used it).

I just don't get why they are continuing with these increasingly desperate clearance sales when they'd probably get more money if they stuck everything on Ebay, since there really isn't that much stock left to list. There are probably still some nuggets on there though and absolute bargains but they take some searching.

The reason they aren't using Ebay is simple. Ebay sellers have to offer Paypal as a payment option. Maelstrom have dropped Paypal, or more likely Paypal have dropped them. I doubt we'll see maelstrom on Ebay for a while....




I'm gutted, I had a refund given as cash back, however I received £60 instead of £30 as they refunded me twice. I didn't say anything. I ordered Malifaux, two month ago. Now there's no way of getting the money back as it was "cashback." Serves me right for not owning up I guess? Damn karma.

Herzlos wrote:
I just don't get why they are continuing with these increasingly desperate clearance sales when they'd probably get more money if they stuck everything on ebay, since there really isn't that much stock left to list.

Try selling on ebay when your paypal account has been closed
And you don't see what they do on private accounts.

Herzlos wrote:


What I don't get is that 80% off I'm able to get new stuff for a fraction of the used price, so would have stocked up on things to sell on if I had the cash, so why haven't they just fired the remaining stock on eBay with no reserve?

If their Paypal account was shut down by Paypal could be issues with their Ebay account.

My first post here, as this issue is concerning me as well:

I live in Slovakia

From the beginning I made several orders:

at the 50% discount I made 3 orders, in 7/10 11/10 and 12/10 (mostly dystopian wars stuff and few mtg boosters,boxes and sleeves, and an O&G Gamezone Ballista)

all of them arrived some 10 days later as 3 separate shipments, packed and 100% complete.

I read this thread, encouraged by succesful orders (and really nice discounts) I made 6 more orders:

the one made on 17/10 (darklands (ex banelegions) ) was dispatched on 22/10 (still waiting for it, I expect it probably Friday or next Monday)
two more orders were made on 22/10 (again darklands stuff) and were dispatched on 29/10 (so still fresh)

three more orders were made yesterday, - some mtg stuff, gamezone leftovers, few banelords and scibor bits are now being packed.

I understand that this is probably a gamble, but I would be more sad if I didn´t try the risk, as especially these banelords/darklands/mierce whatever models are one of the best in the market (owners of their Krull Bloodthirster would agree with me, much better than FW version). It is really a pity, that they didn´t put a pictures on darklands miniatures, they could help them in sale.

I will be keeping an update of any orders and their state I receive, I hope that can use those about three hundred pounds I sent to actually get some stuff for people stuck there, or at least consolidate themselves in some way.

P.S quite interesting thing is, that they restocked some of the banelegions/banelords minis that were out of stock yesterday

 Kroothawk wrote:

Our absolutely final warehouse sale: Get 50% on office furniture, used computers, shelves and ... a warehouse. CODE is "Maya Calender".

Just kidding

You got too greedy there kroothawk. There is no warehouse.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Our absolutely final warehouse sale: Get 50% on office furniture, used computers, shelves and ... a warehouse. CODE is "Maya Calender".

Just kidding

You win the Thread "Mayan Calender" *Wipes tears from eyes*

I received this today from the Citizen Advice Bureau in the UK to whom I sent a complaint against Maelstrom.

"Dear Mr Karlsson

Thank you for your enquiry to the Citizens Advice consumer service dated 24/10/2012. Your reference number for this case is AW-10752407 and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.

We are currently experiencing high levels of demand for advice by email and would like to take this opportunity to apologise for the delay in responding to your email and for any inconvenience caused as a consequence.

We understand from your email that you are trying to establish your legal position after experiencing problems with an internet based trader.

Based on the information you have provided the key legal points in response to your enquiry are as follows:

As you placed the order while in Finland, your rights could be governed by Finnish law. As such, you may also want to consider contacting your local Finnish equivalent of Trading Standards as they may be better placed to advise you on how to pursue this case, based on the laws and regulations which could cover the purchase and possibly the method of purchase used. We can only give accurate advice based on the legislation of the United Kingdom, and it is possible there will be some differences in the legislation as it would apply to you.

Under UK law, when you enter into a contract with a trader by means of a distance communication (telephone, internet, mail order etc.) you will generally have cancellation rights under the Distance Selling Regulations. The period in which you can cancel starts when you place the order. When this period ends depends on when the trader provides written information (in print or by email) confirming details of the order and your cancellation rights -

• If the trader sends the written information before they send the goods or enclosed with the goods – the cancellation period ends 7 working days from the day after the goods are received;

• If the trader sends the written information after the goods but within 3 months - the cancellation period ends 7 working days from the day after the written information is received;

• If the trader sends the written information over 3 months after the goods, or not at all – the cancellation period ends 3 months and 7 working days from the day after the goods are received.



If you cancel you may ask for a full refund (including any delivery charges). The trader must provide this refund within 30 days.



The trader may ask you to return the goods and / or pay the return costs but can only do so if it was made clear in the written information. If the written information does not specify that you are responsible for returning the goods, you may expect the trader to collect the goods; if it does not specify you are responsible for the cost of return then the trader must bear this cost. Until the goods are returned to (or collected by) the trader, you have a ‘duty of care’ over the goods so it is important not to use the goods or do anything else which may damage them as this may mean the trader is not obliged to provide a full refund.



Under the Distance Selling Regulations, if you do not receive the goods you have ordered after 30 days, the contract can be considered to be automatically cancelled and you can claim a full refund (including delivery charges). Alternatively you can cancel at any time before you receive the goods and claim a full refund.

If you do wish to pursue a claim using the above legislation, you should now send the trader a letter (using registered post if possible), outlining everything to date, and giving a deadline to resolve the matter within a set period of time (for example 30 days). Make it very clear what you are claiming from the trader and why. It is also worth retaining copies of everything sent, for your records.

We will notify Trading Standards authorities in the UK of the trader's activities in this situation. Whilst this would not help with your own complaint, Trading Standards can take into consideration such complaints in any dealings they have with the trader.

If you require any further civil advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact the Citizens Advice consumer service by return email or on 08454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Citizens Advice consumer service

Tel: 08454 04 05 06

Web: www.adviceguide.org.uk"

I doubt Maelstrom would even reply to a letter sent to them.

They might actually reply to an email if you put 'breach of Distance Selling Regulations' in the title.

Mind you, if those tax stories are true, they are already in enough trouble with the government.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Our absolutely final warehouse sale: Get 50% on office furniture, used computers, shelves and ... a warehouse. CODE is "Maya Calender".

Just kidding

BTW my birthday is on 21st December
Im thinking of throwing an ''end of the world party''

So as promised, update on my orders:

Two orders which I made 22/10 were dispatched 23/10 (although they sent me email about dispatching on 29/10), they arrived today (100% complete - banelords and banelegions/darklands miniatures)

Quite strange is, that I got them sooner, than the order I made a few days before (17/10), where are the things that concern me more , hopefully it will be here soon, will wait a bit more.

3 more orders are remaining all of them being packed - one was split (one mtg mat of two I bought is suddenly out of stock - probably will never see it, but 3,50 pounds loss is acceptable).

So as far as I can tell, the shipments from them are arriving

Has it all gone quiet now?

I was half expecting another email announcing further stock found of Spirograph, Rogue trader RTB box sets and the like.

Too quiet.

No new email codes, but also no deliveries, part-or full-order.

http://warlordgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6393

Has anyone else seen this post at Warlord???? from 2 weeks ago - as MG haven't had any more stock from Warlord since then I'm guessing Paul @ Warlord just didn't want their forum used to put people off buying what was left. (unless MG promised to send them the money from the sales!)

I'm a little surprised too, they are still showing stock of a few things but no new codes and the old ones have definately been expired on the site (yep- I checked, even the one that is mentioned on their home page- the 40% off one)

I place a last minute order at the 80% discount, my thinking was that it's a gamble that I'll either get nothing (possible) for my money or I'll get a bunch of stuff for a fraction of the retail price- I thought I'd give it a go and if I get nothing it's cost me £10 form my bet which I'm happy to risk- it's not like I could get a lot from GW for that price

Got a mate who posted on my old gaming club website about this. Here's a snippet:

I am not the only one being scammed by these despicable people. Apparently some customers are £100-150 out of pocket as orders are simply not arriving. A website has recently appeared called Eye of the Storm. It's got the same logo, same website layout. Apart from the name change and deleting the customer database so people can't complain to them it is exactly the same website. Do not trade with them.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Got a mate who posted on my old gaming club website about this. Here's a snippet:

I am not the only one being scammed by these despicable people. Apparently some customers are £100-150 out of pocket as orders are simply not arriving. A website has recently appeared called Eye of the Storm. It's got the same logo, same website layout. Apart from the name change and deleting the customer database so people can't complain to them it is exactly the same website. Do not trade with them.

Yup Same location, same people.


Why have EOTS as a physical store AND an EOTS web shop if Maelstrom (as the online portal) are still trading? If all is fine and dandy why not have EOTS as the physical base as well as gaming space and Maelstrom for On-line sales only (with their fantastic new bright spangly all singing, yet empty, warehouse)?)

 SoulDrinker wrote:

http://warlordgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6393

Has anyone else seen this post at Warlord???? from 2 weeks ago - as MG haven't had any more stock from Warlord since then I'm guessing Paul @ Warlord just didn't want their forum used to put people off buying what was left. (unless MG promised to send them the money from the sales!)

He is just diplomatic. I would be too in his place. Probably they owe him money and he just hopes that they will start working again and pay him. Plus it's not good for the rest of his clientele to see his site used as launching pad to hit a business partner. Bad image.

have a look at this from EOTS FAQ a fantastic piece of fiction a booker prize right there,

Aren't you just another faceless webstore after a quick profit?

Absolutely not! We're not some fly-by-night company with a poor record and even poorer service, our bricks-and-mortar store has been trading since 2009, and we have taken a number of years to research what every wargamer wants in a webstore: a genuinely cheap, no hassle service from people that know the industry and gets items to them quickly.

Our team is always willing to help you and we're also steeped in wargaming experience - if we can't help you, nobody can!

quite how anybody they still owe is suposed to swallow this i don't know but funny how the things that were in stock on MG a couple of weeks ago are now in stock at EOTS down to the same colour of paints.
perhaps people should email ETOS about thier outstanding orders.

 wildphilldude wrote:
have a look at this from EOTS FAQ a fantastic piece of fiction a booker prize right there,

Aren't you just another faceless webstore after a quick profit?

Absolutely not! We're not some fly-by-night company with a poor record and even poorer service, our bricks-and-mortar store has been trading since 2009, and we have taken a number of years to research what every wargamer wants in a webstore: a genuinely cheap, no hassle service from people that know the industry and gets items to them quickly.

Our team is always willing to help you and we're also steeped in wargaming experience - if we can't help you, nobody can!

quite how anybody they still owe is suposed to swallow this i don't know but funny how the things that were in stock on MG a couple of weeks ago are now in stock at EOTS down to the same colour of paints.
perhaps people should email ETOS about thier outstanding orders.

It is different firm with a different owner.

And not at all closely connected to Maelstrom Games or Robert Lane in any way at all...

Those rose tinted glasses you are wearing makes you look fat.

Yeah, huge fan of MG, but EOTS is close enough to be the same company. If people don't get orders fulfilled and EOTS continues this could be odd.

blingman wrote:

 wildphilldude wrote:
have a look at this from EOTS FAQ a fantastic piece of fiction a booker prize right there,

Aren't you just another faceless webstore after a quick profit?

Absolutely not! We're not some fly-by-night company with a poor record and even poorer service, our bricks-and-mortar store has been trading since 2009, and we have taken a number of years to research what every wargamer wants in a webstore: a genuinely cheap, no hassle service from people that know the industry and gets items to them quickly.

Our team is always willing to help you and we're also steeped in wargaming experience - if we can't help you, nobody can!

quite how anybody they still owe is suposed to swallow this i don't know but funny how the things that were in stock on MG a couple of weeks ago are now in stock at EOTS down to the same colour of paints.
perhaps people should email ETOS about thier outstanding orders.

It is different firm with a different owner.

In fact no it's not it has the same physical address and phone number as maelstrom, it is owned by Rob Lane and apparently the physical shop still has the scratch marks from where the Maelstrom sign was removed.

All though it looks like Rob's being doing the hokey cokey with the name again at companies house as it's not eye of the storm ltd anymore,

One more time, I guess... especially for the new guy with 16 posts who is absolutely not a mole... this one goes out to you, baby!

Maelstrom Games:
https://www.duedil.com/company/04724863/maelstrom-games-limited
Maelstrom Games Limited was registered on 07 Apr 2003 with its registered office in Nottinghamshire. The business has a status of active. They were founded by Robert Lane, and Andrew Chesney. There are 2 shareholders of Maelstrom Games Limited. They have no known group companies. The company has assets totalling £375,518 plus liabilities totalling £567,481. They owe £567,388 to creditors and are due £130,137 from trade debtors. Their net worth is £-132,432, and the value of their shareholders' interest is £4,523.
Registered Address
106 Carter Lane
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG18 3DH
United Kingdom
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/

Eye of the Storm - Name changed 2 days ago to Maunsfield Gaming:
https://www.duedil.com/company/08112392/maunsfeld-gaming-ltd
ABOUT MAUNSFELD GAMING LTD
Maunsfeld Gaming Ltd was registered on 20 Jun 2012 with its registered office in Nottinghamshire. The business has a status of active. They were founded by Robert Lane, and Graham Cowan. They have no known group companies.
Registered Address
106 Carter Lane
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG18 3DH
United Kingdom
http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/

Mierce Miniatures:
https://www.duedil.com/company/06830539/mierce-miniatures-limited
ABOUT MIERCE MINIATURES LIMITED
Mierce Miniatures Limited was registered on 26 Feb 2009 with its registered office in Nottinghamshire. The business has a status of 'Non-trading'. They were founded by Robert Lane, and Graham Cowan. Mierce Miniatures Limited have a single shareholder; Robert Lane. They have no known group companies.
106 Carter Lane
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG18 3DH
United Kingdom
http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/

Feel free to compare founders, shareholders, websites, and registered addresses.


I'm mostly staying out of this thread at this stage, but every time some new (or old) poster (or RL) comes along and posts BS to disassociate Maelstrom-EOTS-Mierce-Maunsfield Gaming from one another, I'll repost this info. Unti we all get out outstanding orders and they start answering the phones and emails, at least...

^Ah this is useful.

They split my order today. Hopefully means I'll be getting it soon.

Mierce has a status of "non-trading"?

Like many here, I had a fairly awful experience with Maelstrom over the summer. Ordered some Malifaux items, was messed around with delivery dates etc (ordered in-stock items, only to find out they were out of stock, received repeated promises of it'll be shipped out next week, and finally cancelled after 5 weeks of waiting. The CS rep - Simon - was rather brusk and curt throughout, but the refund was at least done instantly after I requested it.

I can't say I'm surprised to hear they are going under. What is sadder in many ways is that they managed to treat so many of their admirably loyal and devoted customers so badly in doing so when, in fact, many of them would probably have been willing to help out had the company just come clean much sooner. Had they put up their hands at the start of the summer and said 'we're a little low on cash flow and are running a big sale accordingly' I think the overwhelming majority of us would have stumped up our hard-earned cash immediately, in good faith, because they had never done us wrong before. But now? Forget it, I'd rather order a plague rat from a corpse cart than associate with that company again.

By the way, has anyone noted that the phone number on the new web company (slash old store front) Eye of the Storm is identical to the one listed in the dying Maelstrom site? Surely they can't get away with trying to claim that they are separate businesses when they have the same phone number?

I honestly do hope that the owner of the various stores (Maelstrom, EotS and the other ones) gets reported to an appropriate statutory authority. It may be that he's innocent of any wrong doing, but this deserves investigation at the least.

Anyway, yes this is my first post (long time lurker, this thread induced me to join to vent my $0.2) but I am a regular participant on the Warhammer Dark Elves forum - Druchii.net - as Red... for any who worry about my validity as a poster!

 Dysartes wrote:
Mierce has a status of "non-trading"?

I'm pretty sure that's a hangover from their last account filing as they were formed in 2009 they would have to submit that they are non-trading so HMRC know what to expect in the way of tax. If they came active after Feb 2012 then I would think they would still show as non-trading until their next set of accounts are filed.

Hahaha why would i be a mole ?
I just game at eye of the storm regularly, as do a lot of people. Check the find a game section.

blingman wrote:
Hahaha why would i be a mole ?
I just game at eye of the storm regularly, as do a lot of people. Check the find a game section.

Then you should know it's all the same guy, The whole eye of the storm thing was just Maelstrom's name for his gaming venue, it wasn't even a separate company to begin with.

Basically as far as I can tell no-one actually supplies EOTS - it all goes to Maelstrom and he then puts stock in EOTS shop. If there is no balancing or payments from one to the other in theory all that stock belongs to Maelstrom (or their suppliers).

 SoulDrinker wrote:

blingman wrote:
Hahaha why would i be a mole ?
I just game at eye of the storm regularly, as do a lot of people. Check the find a game section.

Then you should know it's all the same guy, The whole eye of the storm thing was just Maelstrom's name for his gaming venue, it wasn't even a separate company to begin with.

Basically as far as I can tell no-one actually supplies EOTS - it all goes to Maelstrom and he then puts stock in EOTS shop. If there is no balancing or payments from one to the other in theory all that stock belongs to Maelstrom (or their suppliers).

Nope, EOTS has seperate stock, its even an official GW supplier as rayvon mentioned.

That's only useful if the invoices are made out to Eye of the Storm - if they have separate accounts with suppliers. I'm pretty sure they don't from my contact with some of their suppliers. It's just listed as a store address for the company to show where the bricks and mortar shop is. The company who hold the accounts with the suppliers (and who have been cut off) is Maelstrom Games, therefore EOTS won't have any supplies coming in. Lets face it no supplier is going to supply any company owned and run by Rob Lane after this debacle.

EDIT - main reason I'm mentioning this is to give a little hope to the people waiting for their stuff, if it's been "moved" to EOTS then it's entirely possible that any administrators can "move" it back if it hasn't been properly bought by / invoiced to EOTS and people might at least get some of the stuff they are owed..............I live in hope

Update on my last order from MG.

Partially delivered this morning, about half of what I ordered on Monday 29th.

Missing several items which were claimed to be in stock at the time of ordering-yep some of the very few!

I've used the contact us form to ask for an update and will continue to pursue until I have my items, although it is still marked as packing.

My cynical side (which I've been using a lot where MG are concenred recently) wonders if they are leaving orders at the "packing" stage so that they can claim that they have not formed a contract with customers. It's is a surprisingly common clause in T&C's for webstores that the contract is not formed until items are sent out- although i'm not surehow the T&C's would stand up in court when compared to things like the consumer protection laws and the unfair contract terms legislation, particularly when payment is taken upon receipt of the order- anyone have any thoughts on that?

Also has anyone actually tried physically going to MG to see about their order? I'm quite prepared to do this if required, just wondering if anyone else has tried that tactic, as I'm fairly sure by now the phone and e-mail route is pretty much useless.

Winact wrote:
My cynical side (which I've been using a lot where MG are concenred recently) wonders if they are leaving orders at the "packing" stage so that they can claim that they have not formed a contract with customers. It's is a surprisingly common clause in T&C's for webstores that the contract is not formed until items are sent out- although i'm not surehow the T&C's would stand up in court when compared to things like the consumer protection laws and the unfair contract terms legislation, particularly when payment is taken upon receipt of the order- anyone have any thoughts on that?

Anyone who says that is lying, stupid or both. It would make more sense to say that the contract is concluded when items are sent out, but even that is in violation of consumer protection laws.

Yeah there can't be any legal basis for the contract only starting on shipping. The contract starts when the money is received; it's just as yours when it's being packed as when it's in transit. Their claim would never stand up in any court.

 AlexHolker wrote:

Winact wrote:
My cynical side (which I've been using a lot where MG are concenred recently) wonders if they are leaving orders at the "packing" stage so that they can claim that they have not formed a contract with customers. It's is a surprisingly common clause in T&C's for webstores that the contract is not formed until items are sent out- although i'm not surehow the T&C's would stand up in court when compared to things like the consumer protection laws and the unfair contract terms legislation, particularly when payment is taken upon receipt of the order- anyone have any thoughts on that?

Anyone who says that is lying, stupid or both. It would make more sense to say that the contract is concluded when items are sent out, but even that is in violation of consumer protection laws.

I'm well aware of my rights with regard to contract (as are you by the sound of things!) but I'm just trying to look forward a little to see what the point of doing things the way the MG have been doing is?

If they are deliberately staying in the "packing" stage longer than you'd expect, I'd suggest it might be because it looks better than "processing". Once it's actually packed there's no reason not to send it out ASAP, but the sooner it starts "packing" the sooner you're telling the customer "It's okay, just a few more days before you have it in your hands."

Herzlos wrote:
Yeah there can't be any legal basis for the contract only starting on shipping. The contract starts when the money is received; it's just as yours when it's being packed as when it's in transit. Their claim would never stand up in any court.

Here are a typical couple of examples of why so many companies do this:

1. You purchase something from a website and then the vendor cant get the item, maybe it has gone discontinued. If the contract started when you made the purchase the purchaser would then have legal grounds to sue the vendor because they couldnt supply the item, they could sue for damages and consequences of not being able to get the item.

2. You purchase a pre order item from a website and then the manufacturer decides to not release the item at the time.

As you can see the above are examples of when a vendor needs to have the legal right to not supply the item at the price offered and cancel the purchase if they wish. That is why it is merely an offer when you buy and only becomes a contract once the goods are dispatched. A good analogy would be a supermarket, the contract is only made once the physical goods have been inspected by the cashier, they have aggreed to sell them at the prices advertised and the customer hands over the money. The contract is only then made once all 3 of those things are done. Similarly when a purchase is made online the contract only exists when the customer has paid, the vendor has the goods in their posession and are willing to ship them.

The above would stand up in court because there are no consumer laws or sales laws that override the above terms for the above reasons.

However a company taking the money, not supplying the goods and not refunding it has nothing to do with the contract, that is a straight forward case where you are protected by the appropriate law, sales of goods act, distance selling regulations etc and has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a contract with the vendor or not.

The reason why the contract doesnt end when the items are dispatched as someone pointed out in a previous post is because if that was the case then the vendor wouldnt be responsible for any losses/damages in transit which they are. Hence why the contract ends when the customer has received the goods in adequate condition.

rocketboy wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
Yeah there can't be any legal basis for the contract only starting on shipping. The contract starts when the money is received; it's just as yours when it's being packed as when it's in transit. Their claim would never stand up in any court.

Here are a typical couple of examples of why so many companies do this:

1. You purchase something from a website and then the vendor cant get the item, maybe it has gone discontinued. If the contract started when you made the purchase the purchaser would then have legal grounds to sue the vendor because they couldnt supply the item, they could sue for damages and consequences of not being able to get the item.

2. You purchase a pre order item from a website and then the manufacturer decides to not release the item at the time.

As you can see the above are examples of when a vendor needs to have the legal right to not supply the item at the price offered and cancel the purchase if they wish. That is why it is merely an offer when you buy and only becomes a contract once the goods are dispatched. A good analogy would be a supermarket, the contract is only made once the physical goods have been inspected by the cashier, they have aggreed to sell them at the prices advertised and the customer hands over the money. The contract is only then made once all 3 of those things are done. Similarly when a purchase is made online the contract only exists when the customer has paid, the vendor has the goods in their posession and are willing to ship them.

The above would stand up in court because there are no consumer laws or sales laws that override the above terms for the above reasons.

However a company taking the money, not supplying the goods and not refunding it has nothing to do with the contract, that is a straight forward case where you are protected by the appropriate law, sales of goods act, distance selling regulations etc and has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a contract with the vendor or not.

The reason why the contract doesnt end when the items are dispatched as someone pointed out in a previous post is because if that was the case then the vendor wouldnt be responsible for any losses/damages in transit which they are. Hence why the contract ends when the customer has received the goods in adequate condition.

To be honest I am just wondering if there is an angle they are trying to play there? I understand the point of the contract not being formed until dispatch (which as you point out is legitimate use of terms and conditions to protect the business) but I wondered if anyone else could see a point in holding at the packing stage when it has been dispatched- at least partly (becasue it has arrived!) or whether I'm reading too much into it and they haven't got around to splitting/dispatched status updates yet?

Got an email this morning that Paypal had found in our favour with the dispute we had with Maelstrom and they have refunded us the money we spent on pre-ordering Relic. Result.

rocketboy wrote:
As you can see the above are examples of when a vendor needs to have the legal right to not supply the item at the price offered and cancel the purchase if they wish. That is why it is merely an offer when you buy and only becomes a contract once the goods are dispatched. A good analogy would be a supermarket, the contract is only made once the physical goods have been inspected by the cashier, they have aggreed to sell them at the prices advertised and the customer hands over the money. The contract is only then made once all 3 of those things are done. Similarly when a purchase is made online the contract only exists when the customer has paid, the vendor has the goods in their posession and are willing to ship them.

This is incorrect. The terms of the contract might say the vendor can terminate the contract by giving a refund, but a contract still exists in order for that obligation to exist.

so heres my latest update:


first order: most of it arrived, one item split off/processing fair enough


second/third order have now arrived but with missing or wrong items!
some missing items are even STILL showing as in stock >.<

not the best performance really in this ongoing saga!

Thought I'd share my experience with MG during their "FINAL-FINAL-PENULTIMATE-ARMAGEDDON-APOCALYPSE-WAREHOUSE-MOVES-SALE".

On Oct. 5th. I ordered some WarmaHordes at greatly reduced prices, £56 total cost. All items were listed as in stock at the time of purchase.
Got an order confirmation right away and everything looked hunky-dory. The order confirmation informed me that I would get an a new email when the parcel had been shipped, along with an invoice.

This was on a Friday. Tuesday or Wednesday the next week I had still not gotten any shipping confirmation so I logged back onto MG to check my order history. Here's what I found: (copy-paste directly from the order history) "This order is complete and was dispatched on 30·11·-1. "
Does that look correct to you? Nope, me neither. So I filled in their contact form asking for a confirmation that the items had been sent and waited for a reply.

Oct. 26th I had heard nothing from MG, so I thought "Okay, maybe it has been shipped and is being held by Norwegian customs without any notice of it landing in my mailbox. Things like that happen from time to time". I called up both Customs and the Postal services, and they had no records of any parcels addressed to me from MG searching as far back as August. So I write a new email to MG, again through their contact form, reporting a missing order.

Oct. 29th, no reply as of yet. I try calling them instead, only to find that the phone number listed on the website is not in use (maybe I've messed up the whole "calling abroad"-routine with extra digits, but I've tried every possible way I can think of. Can anyone confirm that their phone has been disconnected?). So I write a third email, this time directly to their contact email, outlining everything so far about my missing order.

Today, November 1st. Still no reply from MG. I called up Royal Mail to hear if they have any records of a parcel addressed to me from MG but as I haven't gotten a shipment number and it's being sent international, they are unable to track it. Sent a 4th email, again outlining everything. This time, however, I added that I expected a reply by the end of working hours tomorrow, Nov. 2nd, and that if I hear nothing, I will start looking into taking legal action against MG.

Haven't got high hopes about getting my models or my money back, so I guess I'm out £50+ . I will not order from MG or EOTS again.

Looks quite similar to my situation - so far I have tried contacting them ~10 times, but to no avail.

 AlexHolker wrote:

rocketboy wrote:
As you can see the above are examples of when a vendor needs to have the legal right to not supply the item at the price offered and cancel the purchase if they wish. That is why it is merely an offer when you buy and only becomes a contract once the goods are dispatched. A good analogy would be a supermarket, the contract is only made once the physical goods have been inspected by the cashier, they have aggreed to sell them at the prices advertised and the customer hands over the money. The contract is only then made once all 3 of those things are done. Similarly when a purchase is made online the contract only exists when the customer has paid, the vendor has the goods in their posession and are willing to ship them.

This is incorrect. The terms of the contract might say the vendor can terminate the contract by giving a refund, but a contract still exists in order for that obligation to exist.

You are wrong Alex, there is no contract until the vendor accepts it. Acceptance is the third and final part of contract formation, have a readup on UK law and in particular the 3 phases to any UK contract formation, it may be different to your country.

The obligation to refund if you cannot ship exists due to UK laws, not because a contract exists because it doesnt until acceptance (dispatch).

Pretty much every time I've used them the good arrive before the status changes from 'packing' to 'dispatched'

so still some hope there

Cardinal Biggles wrote:
This was on a Friday. Tuesday or Wednesday the next week I had still not gotten any shipping confirmation so I logged back onto MG to check my order history. Here's what I found: (copy-paste directly from the order history) "This order is complete and was dispatched on 30·11·-1. "
Does that look correct to you? Nope, me neither. So I filled in their contact form asking for a confirmation that the items had been sent and waited for a reply.

I had that and the order turned up eventually. I still haven't had any response from them though and that was weeks ago

Hi I have signed up to add to this thread which I have been watching with increasing worry for a few days.

When Maelstrom were doing a 40% discount a few weeks ago I ordered some SOTR stuff for my brother which arrived within a few days. I kept checking their inventory whenever a new level of discount was emailed out and suddenly noticed a Flames of War starter box at 50% off on 26 Oct. As this is something I was thinking about getting around xmas, I immediately placed an order for it and a couple of FOW blisters also 50% off.

Since then I have been looking at this thread and a few others like it with a growing sense of worry. I had only paid £20 but I'm pretty skint right now, so the 50% discount was very tempting.

Today this order arrived. On the Maelstrom site it is still marked as packing, but I seem to recall that their dispatch notices often arrive after the items do.

My reason for posting this is that I know Maelstrom can be pretty bad at responding to emails and so on but they still seem to be honouring their side of the deal as far as I can see. I was worried myself so I know it's easy to become alarmed by the apparent signs of a company in crisis but we won't know for sure whether they are going to have left anyone out of pocket until they shutdown for good. I really hope you guys all get your stuff or get your payment back, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't turn out ok for everyone.

JamesFlames wrote:
Hi I have signed up to add to this thread which I have been watching with increasing worry for a few days.

When Maelstrom were doing a 40% discount a few weeks ago I ordered some SOTR stuff for my brother which arrived within a few days. I kept checking their inventory whenever a new level of discount was emailed out and suddenly noticed a Flames of War starter box at 50% off on 26 Oct. As this is something I was thinking about getting around xmas, I immediately placed an order for it and a couple of FOW blisters also 50% off.

Since then I have been looking at this thread and a few others like it with a growing sense of worry. I had only paid £20 but I'm pretty skint right now, so the 50% discount was very tempting.

Today this order arrived. On the Maelstrom site it is still marked as packing, but I seem to recall that their dispatch notices often arrive after the items do.

My reason for posting this is that I know Maelstrom can be pretty bad at responding to emails and so on but they still seem to be honouring their side of the deal as far as I can see. I was worried myself so I know it's easy to become alarmed by the apparent signs of a company in crisis but we won't know for sure whether they are going to have left anyone out of pocket until they shutdown for good. I really hope you guys all get your stuff or get your payment back, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't turn out ok for everyone.

Flames of War was never 50% off - the highest discount given was 40%. And I hate to say, but if that starter was named "Open Fire", then You got an outdated starter with previous edition rules... The current starter is Achtung! and the new "Open FIre" with plastic infantry was never "in stock" at MG.

CainTheHunter wrote:

JamesFlames wrote:
Hi I have signed up to add to this thread which I have been watching with increasing worry for a few days.

When Maelstrom were doing a 40% discount a few weeks ago I ordered some SOTR stuff for my brother which arrived within a few days. I kept checking their inventory whenever a new level of discount was emailed out and suddenly noticed a Flames of War starter box at 50% off on 26 Oct. As this is something I was thinking about getting around xmas, I immediately placed an order for it and a couple of FOW blisters also 50% off.

Since then I have been looking at this thread and a few others like it with a growing sense of worry. I had only paid £20 but I'm pretty skint right now, so the 50% discount was very tempting.

Today this order arrived. On the Maelstrom site it is still marked as packing, but I seem to recall that their dispatch notices often arrive after the items do.

My reason for posting this is that I know Maelstrom can be pretty bad at responding to emails and so on but they still seem to be honouring their side of the deal as far as I can see. I was worried myself so I know it's easy to become alarmed by the apparent signs of a company in crisis but we won't know for sure whether they are going to have left anyone out of pocket until they shutdown for good. I really hope you guys all get your stuff or get your payment back, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't turn out ok for everyone.

Flames of War was never 50% off - the highest discount given was 40%. And I hate to say, but if that starter was named "Open Fire", then You got an outdated starter with previous edition rules... The current starter is Achtung! and the new "Open FIre" with plastic infantry was never "in stock" at MG.

Thanks for your concern old chap.

The starter I ordered and received is Achtung. I am well aware of the FOW editions and whilst the new Open Fire box looks great, as I believe I mentioned I am pretty skint so £12 or so for Achtung seemed a good deal.

Also on 26 October I got an email from Maelstrom saying: 'all our remaining stock will now be sold at 70% off UK RRP except for Battlefront Miniatures and Mierce Miniatures, which will be sold at 50% off UK RRP and Templar's Forge at 75% off.'

You might be interested to learn that FOW is made by Battlefront so I received 50% off the RRP.

Hello, i have just logged onto this site so that i could add my story of MG to the others, i did start a thread on the 'Flames Of War' site a week or so ago but it was locked seemingly to protect MG for some strange reason.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=6&aft=548358&afv=topic

Anyway i placed a large order with them at the start of October for some Flames Of War items, the discount then was 25% (15% really because it's always available at 10% off from retailers) all the items were quoted as being in stock apart from some decals. I waited for the goods to turn up but nothing did, then i found some of these threads about them so i emailed them that if i did not hear from them within two days i would cancel the order, then i got a message saying that the order has been split.
The first half of the split orders (about 40% of the total order amount) was delivered a few days later, but when i opened the package alot of the items were not in the package that were supposed to be. It was obvious then that they were just dripping out stock to try and keep customers on the hook, i cancelled my orders immediately and lodged a paypal dispute which i escalated immediately.

It would be of no surprise to you all that MG have not been in contact with me, i'm just waiting for paypal now to get a refund.

JamesFlames wrote:
Thanks for your concern old chap.

The starter I ordered and received is Achtung. I am well aware of the FOW editions and whilst the new Open Fire box looks great, as I believe I mentioned I am pretty skint so £12 or so for Achtung seemed a good deal.

Also on 26 October I got an email from Maelstrom saying: 'all our remaining stock will now be sold at 70% off UK RRP except for Battlefront Miniatures and Mierce Miniatures, which will be sold at 50% off UK RRP and Templar's Forge at 75% off.'

You might be interested to learn that FOW is made by Battlefront so I received 50% off the RRP.

Having purchased a lot of BF FoW stuff, I know which is the company making it . But I never got that e-mail - the last one from MG stated 40%... Whatever, at least a got a couple of BF tanks at 25% discount at the early stage of this hype

So, here's how it's gone for me.
I've had two orders for a long time - One preordered infinity rulebook from about 60-70 days ago for 30 pounds and one order of 70 pounds worth of Infinity figures from 40-something days ago.
After all this started welling up and waiting a bit patiently, I asked them to cancel. Got no response.
I went to Paypal with the large batch of Infinity figs and claimed it. I got the claim, but have yet to see if some of that money will make it back.
Regarding the other order, since I couldn't go to Paypal I went to my bank and talked there. They told me to file a report to the police, which I did. The police called soon after and told me that it might not be much of a case since it seems that Maelstrom didn't intend to fraud me or something like that. Either way they told me I've probably lost those money for the rulebook.

I also went out and contacted Corvus Belli to see if MG had ordered anything Infinity lately. They gave me the email of their UK supplier who told me that they stopped supplying MG with Infinity SEVERAL WEEKS AGO due to massive debt. And Maelstrom just... ignored it. Didn't tell me despite that they knew that neither my figures nor my book would show up. Gah.

I've actually still got 4 items outstanding. 30UKP worth. 3 of them were "in stock" when I ordered them, back in August. It's beyond the 45 PayPal days now, and I'm slowly getting around to performing a chargeback on them. It's just a bit more complicated because of the way that they combine and split orders. I did get the larger 400UKP back, though.

If you mean Secrets of the Third Reich stuff, I had over 100UKP of that ordered, and got that all refunded shortly before the PayPal cutoff, as mentioned several times in this thread. If you don';t see why it shouldn;t turn out ok for everyone in the end, what about the people who ordered the stuff from Wyrd(?) miniatures, who have publiclly stated that they have cut Maelstrom off?

So it seems the MO is now to send out what they have in the hope that it's better than nothing, but fail to respond to any kind of contact and fail to refund for the balance of the goods. I'm going to give them until tomorrow to reply to me before I complain via registered post seeking resolution- I know this helps to show you've tried to pursue the issue if any doubts are cast later.

It's gone suspiciously quiet over the last couple of days from them- no 90% off voucher code: FOUR-HORSE-RIDERS-SPOTTED-APOCAYLPSE-NOW!

I'm also up for going down to MG to see whats going on next week as I have a couple of days off and its not too far- anyone else already tried physically visiting them?

90% off would be silly - it wouldn't pay the shipping on most orders. they won't do that, I'm sure.

SOme of their stock and sections have disappeared from the website. I remember seeing a lot of microart bases still on stock know they don't even as an option. This and the lack of vouchers seems to be pointing for the worst. They are probably just sending the last orders out for the things they have in stock before declare bankruptcy. For the ones new to this thread the only items they are dispatching are from orders placed during the last vouchers sales. All the previous customers will most likely never get their orders as they stopped trading with some of the distributors.

Did anyone else notice that comment by Jean-Paul on the FOW forum (link above- top pg 29) Seems At least BF is somewhat in the loop and some announcement will be forthcoming.

Cardinal Biggles wrote:

Haven't got high hopes about getting my models or my money back, so I guess I'm out £50+ . I will not order from MG or EOTS again.

File a claim with either paypal or your credit card company.

Cut 'n'paste please? I don't feel like signing up to the FoW forum just to read a thread...

 scipio.au wrote:
Cut 'n'paste please? I don't feel like signing up to the FoW forum just to read a thread...

Seconded!

 IK-Painter wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
Cut 'n'paste please? I don't feel like signing up to the FoW forum just to read a thread...

Seconded!

Thirded - and can I just say that that seems a bit of a daft approach from the FoW guys...

 scipio.au wrote:
, what about the people who ordered the stuff from Wyrd(?) miniatures, who have publiclly stated that they have cut Maelstrom off?

It was their distributor Simple Miniatures, rather than Wyrd themselves, that cut Maelstrom off - so not only did they lose supply of Wyrd, they lost supplies for Warmachine / Hordes and Inifnity - and yet Maelstrom still had pre-orders for Paradiso and various new releases from all those ranges going through the site. MG should have know that they couldn't get these any more so it raises the question of where does the law stand on MG taking people's cash for the items MG knew they wouldn't be getting anymore

Regarding the Battlefront forums, this is all I got from the thread, unless I'm missing something:

You will be getting some news from Rob directly very soon about the future of his company and although he is keeping us in the loop as things evolve it is not for me to share this information with you so please be patient and wait for some official word.

edit.

Said post was done by a BF staff member named John-Paul.

That post from john paul was on the 25th October - so it's a while to wait for any announcement. I'm guessing they just don't want a big thread like this on their forum potentially undermining customer confidence in battlefront. (although I don't see why it should - but many companies seem to react this way)

They will wait for Maelstrom to announce something.

Question is, will they ever now? And will this be just for the companies they sell wares from, or a public announcement to all?

They've kept mum for so long now that I think anything they say will be met with a veritable storm of outcry and dismay, even if said announcement was about them shipping out everything still owed and travelling back in time to kill Hitler.

And Maelstrom is currently offline for 'maintenance'

Has it happened?

Possibly? I've rarely seen it down, infact this is a first.

Hey guys,

Thought I should share my experiences with you in regards to Maelstrom Games. I placed an order with them on the 5th of August and have not received any of the good ordered. I have tried Emailing them, ringing them repeatedly and finally sending a recorded letter. They have not replied to any of my communications. After speaking with the Citizens Advice service, and along with Trading Standards, I now have no recourse other than to file proceedings against them in court. For those in a similar situation, below is a copy of the recorded letter I sent them (which they did not reply to, even though they signed for the delivery of the letter).

===

Maelstrom Games Ltd.
Matlock Mill
Hamilton Way
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
NG18 5BU

Letter before court claim

Dear Maelstrom Games,

Re: Breach of Contract - Order #9942864865

I have not received a reply to my recent Email regarding the failure to deliver the goods which I purchased from you on 5th August 2012. In addition, I have placed 11 separate telephone calls to you over the past 3 days and not had any of them answered.

I am once again requesting a full refund of the purchase price of £62.80 on the grounds that the goods have not been delivered, even after 2 months of having placed the order with you. To this end, I am holding Maelstrom Games in breach of contract and seek an immediate resolution to this issue as time is of the essence.

I would like a reply as soon as possible so that I know you have received and understood this letter, which has been sent via recorded delivery.

If I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, I intend to issue proceedings against you in the county court without further notice. This may increase your liability for costs.

I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules, and in particular to paragraph 4 which sets out the sanctions the court may impose if you fail to comply with the Practice Direction.

I look forward to your acknowledgement.

===

If anyone else is in a similar situation, you have my sympathies. They have behaved in a totally unacceptable manner.

Good luck to you all!

Maelstrom website is down for maintenance, interesting?

I expect a message with regard to insolvency imminently to be honest.

But Eye-of-the-storm is still up and running.

Eye of the storm is seperate company, for now.

I'll have a check later on the courts to see if anyone has petitioned to wind the company up