Given the apparent lengths of the segments thus far I wonder if this is even going to be a full length novel or whether it will in fact be a novella of some form. Which, possibly, might be collected later on in a MMPB collection of other shorter length stories. ..?
I still hold out hope for a longer game being played, and that the Legion really isn't a convenient bogey man brigade full of cartoon mustache twirlers.
In recent months, as The Talon of Horus rolls ever onward, I’ve spilled a wealth of words on Ezykyle Abaddon and the Black Legion over emails and hastily-chucked notes to various other authors and IP-tastic souls in the dark conclave of Those Who Contribute to 40K.
This is a difficult book, not only because of the wealth of lore (much of which subtly shifts from edition to edition, meaning you need to choose what to focus on and run with that), but also because of the 40K comedy memes that do the rounds, just like in any fandom. Abaddon, however, gets hit hardest by a barrage of misunderstandings, and lore that remained fairly vague in the past. I hope you’ll forgive me for focusing on the positive and the reality behind the curtain, but I already spend long enough worrying about, and discussing, the negative perceptions. I can’t bring myself to commit several hours hashing them all up again here and now. Besides, they’re already out there. What I can offer today is something a little fresher. From the source, so to speak.
Over the course of all these exchanges with various people (who thankfully took the time to lay out a bajillion words and share their insights with me), a lot of the back and forth discussions revolved around just what it means to be Warmaster of Chaos. Everyone mostly said the same thing in different words, which matched my plans down the line, and that was a pleasant slice of reassurance, let me tell you. I’m sitting on tens of thousands of words from various people about Abaddon, the Eye of Terror, and Chaos Marines in general, as well as practically every word printed about the Black Legion since Rick Priestley and co. first said “Hang on a minute, I’ve got an idea…”
In short, this project has been an absolute dream to research. The more people you talk to, the more perspective and insight you get, and this has been freaking killer. I’ve learned a lot about stuff I already thought I had a brilliant angle on. I’ve had some of my best lore discussions over all of this madness. The really bizarre thing is that all these discussions have made Heresy meetings look like the easiest and smoothest thing in the world. No, really. I can’t overstate the number of times I’ve almost called Dan, Gav or Graham in shrieking tears, demanding they fly over and hold me in their arms until the scary times go away.
Okay, maybe not. But there’s an image for you, nevertheless. The reality is that I wanted to call Alan Merrett – GW’s IP overlord – but he’s really scary and would never hug me.
As an interesting extract, here’s something from one of the longer back-and-forth barrages, which managed to stand out as so painfully inspiring that I had to go make a cup of tea and sit down in the garden to recover, like the weakling Englishman I am.
Note:- Of course, because it’s Ireland, it was raining, so I came back inside almost immediately. Me – and my cup of tea – calmed down in the living room while Shakes watched Jake and the Neverland Pirates, but let’s just move on and stop slaying my quintessentially English reaction.
So, here. These aren’t my words – they’re from The Archive to End All Archives. The crowning jewel of said archive, as it happens. It aligns with the general consensus on Abaddon, but how it was phrased just resonated with me like nothing else quite had before.
Hope you find it as intriguing and inspiring as I do.
“Horus was weak. Horus was a fool.”
It sums up Abaddon. Horus allowed himself to be used by Chaos – Horus is the Chaos Powers’ dupe to get back at the Emperor. Abaddon will never let this happen. He will never allow himself to be a Pawn of Chaos. Simply surviving without choosing one as a patron is a massive achievement. Never succumbing to the temptation of becoming a daemon prince is a second. Seriously, Abaddon is so driven he’d rather battle and scrape and bite and claw his way up to achieve his goals on his own terms than achieve immortality and virtually limitless power, because the alternative is to open the slightest chink in his independence that the Chaos Gods will exploit.
If Horus was the vessel that all of the Gods poured their power into (right up until they abandoned him at the end), then Abbadon has become the vessel that the gods want to have for themselves but haven’t been able to claim. They’ve all offered him a chance to be their regent, to rule in their name, and he has turned them all down, playing them off each other. He is the New Emperor in a way that Horus never was or would have been. Abaddon has, through sheer force of will and dominance, made himself more than a pawn, he has made himself kingmaker. If he were to choose one god to serve, if he dedicated the Black Legion to a single power in his name, that God would crush his rivals almost to the point of victory.
Almost.
Because Chaos can never win against itself, of course, and Abaddon has seen the truth of this. He knows that Chaos is a process, a state, not a goal, and the moment anyone surrenders to the journey and forgets the destination is the moment their worldly ambitions are forgotten and their spirit becomes simply a part of the Chaos Powers. Abaddon is utterly relentless in his pursuit of what he wants – whatever that may actually be. Revenge on the Emperor? Too petty. Vengeance for Horus? Too sentimental. Power? Yes. What kind of power? Mortal power. He could have all the immortal power he can handle if he but asks for it, but that is not what drives him. He sees the Primarchs disappear, fade, die or simply not care anymore and he understands that only a man can really rule other men. Abaddon doesn’t want to destroy the Imperium, he wants to succeed where Horus failed. He wants to be Emperor and have Mankind bow beneath his rule.
His rule, not the rule of the Chaos gods.
Abaddon has not failed because he is wilful or incompetent. He has mustered the greatest armies since the Heresy and unleashed them upon the material universe. He has amassed power and influence within the Eye of Terror greater than any primarch. He has done this through feat of arms and personality, but the one thing he can never truly do, because it is anathema to Chaos, is truly unite the ruinous powers. They can only come together in dominance, not subservience. Whenever Abaddon has been on the brink of victory his backers break ranks, seeking to gain some last-minute short-term advantage.
Ultimately, a win for Abaddon is a loss for Chaos. If he becomes Emperor he has everything he desires and they can hold nothing over him. And so they continue to dangle the carrot, continue to be his patrons, giving him daemonic power and servants, ordering their mortal representatives to debase themselves and serve his will, all in the hope of snatching the final victory of Abaddon for themselves.
It is the Office Politics of Hell. Literally… One of the beliefs surrounding Satan in many Christian theologies is that his defiance of God was his refusal to bow to Man when they were created. In refusing to submit to the rule of mortals, Abaddon carries this analogy perfectly – the Legiones Astartes were created by a god and were never meant to be corralled and curtailed by purely mortal ambitions. As Angels they have a higher purpose – and once had a higher regard in the eyes of their creator, who shunned them.
Quite how much of this Abaddon realises when Horus fails and how much he learns over the next ten thousand years (or three days, depending on warp time) is narratively elastic…
Bearing in mind the warp/ real interface, being the bearer of the Mark of Chaos Ascendant is not just having a shiny star of Chaos imprinted in one’s forehead. It is, when the Chaos gods are bestowing their blessing/ energy, to be the centre of a blazing star, to be surrounded by a coil of ever-replenshing Chaos energy, heralded by choirs of daemons of all powers, suffused with the essence of the four great Chaos Gods. To each worshipper and follower he appears different (much like the Emperor…). He is a schemer, a warrior, a self-centred iconoclast and a survivor.
But there are the times, after the effort, the glory, of being the conduit of so much power, when he teeters on the precipice of doubt, madness and physical corruption. He stands between mortals and immortals, his ambitions far beyond the understanding of the first, yet incomprehensibly alien to the second; constantly he is failed by the inherent weaknesses of both.
His enemies circle, material and immaterial, sensing potential weakness. His allies start to disappear. For a while the Chaos Powers are disinterested, choosing to split, becoming self-serving once more, raising up their champions, sometimes alone, sometimes together, hoping that these mortals will rival Abaddon. Yet they never do.
And he wonders if it is vanity. He wonders if he is deserving. He wonders if what he wants is possible.
And then the Powers come back, trying once more to win him to their cause, taunting, threatening, cajoling and coercing Abaddon to become theirs and theirs alone. And he listens, and he wonders. And always, from somewhere deep in his soul, from the darkest yet strongest place in his mind, the answer comes back, hesitant but growing louder with every beat of his twin hearts.
Yes.
Yes, one day it will all be yours.
And he starts the struggle again. The Long War continues.
Alpharius wrote: I still hold out hope for a longer game being played, and that the Legion really isn't a convenient bogey man brigade full of cartoon mustache twirlers.
This is a series that I am willing to pick up in hardback.
Generally anything by ADB is worth a read. Reading this blog he seems to have grasped precisely how to make Abaddon an interesting character, not just a saturday morning villain.
What book was the White Scars extract from Reds8n ?
Really liked ADB's article on Abaddon.. Abnett and he (although especially ADB) seem to really get writing the 'bad guys' - i.e. making them characters with real emotion and objectives, rather than moustache-twirling villians who are evil for evil's own sake.
Now someone needs to convince him to write Horus..
Isn't it supposed to be Iron Warriors or are they really mixing things up now?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, by that point there were no Tallarn Desert Raiders, as Tallarn wasn't a desert yet, despite what Graham McNeill might say.
BrookM wrote: Isn't it supposed to be Iron Warriors or are they really mixing things up now?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, by that point there were no Tallarn Desert Raiders, as Tallarn wasn't a desert yet, despite what Graham McNeill might say.
Sigh, yes, Warriors, I can never keep those two straight in my head, as I wrote it, I even mentally double checked I had got it the right way round!
When they created the Legions, couldn't they have used another metal? What's wrong with the Steel Fists and Aluminium Warriors or something?!
feth Space Marines, that's what I say, getting sick and tired of those donkey-caves always stealing the limelight as literal deus ex machina devices. Just this once, let the Imperial Army have a good moment that doesn't end in TPK or treason, don't retcon it!
Just went on-line today and one of the few short stories WELL WORTH the price. It was earlier published in the collected visions book of the Horus Heresy fame.
BrookM wrote: feth Space Marines, that's what I say, getting sick and tired of those donkey-caves always stealing the limelight as literal deus ex machina devices. Just this once, let the Imperial Army have a good moment that doesn't end in TPK or treason, don't retcon it!
That was my favorite part of Cadian Blood.
The Space Marines were the speed-bump against the Chaos Legion, and the IG saved the day!
But yeah, I'd be pissed if the novel was called Cadian Blood and it was all about feth mothering space marines doing gak.
Just like that Tactica Imperialis book they released years ago, which was supposed to be about the Imperial Guard but was instead turned into a promo bumper for Abnett's Iron Snakes novel.
BrookM wrote: Isn't it supposed to be Iron Warriors or are they really mixing things up now?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, by that point there were no Tallarn Desert Raiders, as Tallarn wasn't a desert yet, despite what Graham McNeill might say.
Sigh, yes, Warriors, I can never keep those two straight in my head, as I wrote it, I even mentally double checked I had got it the right way round!
When they created the Legions, couldn't they have used another metal? What's wrong with the Steel Fists and Aluminium Warriors or something?!
Look man, coming up with these names is hard work.
Just an FYI for anyone with the same habit as me, ie pre ordering Heresy books in MMPB format on Amazon well in advance, both Mark Of Calth and Vulkan Lives are now available to pre-order on the UK site.
They're in the ~£7 price bracket, whereas the trades are ~£9 to make them easier to spot.
reds8n wrote: Death of Integrity by Guy Haley is very, very good indeed.
He seems to get better with each book.
What else has he done? Tank heads?
Baneblade, Skarsnik, and now Death of Integrity...
i just finished it a couple of days ago...
it's a good read...
it even distracted me from Lords of Mars for a minute...
the Ad-Mech, Novamarines, and Blood Drinkers combo made for some interesting dynamics...
the Blood Drinkers revelation is HUGE...
some will love it, and some will hate it, but very interesting, and maybe even controversial...
time to finish Lords of Mars now...
even more Ad-Mech goodness!!!
Lint wrote: For a chapter named the Blood Drinkers that is incredibly unimaginative.
Actually that's not the big revelation, the big revelation is the thing that happens to some members of the chapter, 18 so far (dun dun dunn!!!), and who is the cause behind it.
For me it depends on the author, I used to burn through Dan's books really fast, until his stuff got old. Now it's AD-B's books that are fast burners for me. So far, aside from Helsreach, all in under a week.
Helsreach is still my favourite Space Marine style story. The Black Templars in it seem to portray what I'd imagine the typical space marine to be perfectly.
AKA, a bit of a **ck. Which makes the marines like the Salamanders (also in the story) and the Space Wolves far more interesting.
Pacific wrote: Got through 'Of Gods and Men' in about 2 weeks which I thought was pretty impressive..
Didn't find any revelation about the Blood Drinkers on the Lexicanum page - I demand the right to spoil the story for myself, god damn it!
Look down at the "sources" section of the blood drinkers page, you're looking for anything that uses, "[9]" as a source... (check below the picture on the right hand side of the page).
cincydooley wrote: Jah, it never ceases to amaze me how fast you burn thru These books. I envy that!!!!
reading is the only way for me to decompress after painting every night...
it distracts my mind from all the worries of the day...
i also read all the books at least twice...
the first time is a fast read, almost like a movie in my head...
the second read is much more in-depth...
anyway, BL books are pretty much the only fiction i buy...
even only buying BL books, the collection grows too fast...
the digital change is a blessing for saving space, and cutting down on all the boxes...
once i finish Lords of Mars, i'll have to decide what's next...
maybe the Dreadfleet novel by Phil Kelly!!!
hahahahaha...
Pacific wrote: Got through 'Of Gods and Men' in about 2 weeks which I thought was pretty impressive..
Didn't find any revelation about the Blood Drinkers on the Lexicanum page - I demand the right to spoil the story for myself, god damn it!
Look down at the "sources" section of the blood drinkers page, you're looking for anything that uses, "[9]" as a source... (check below the picture on the right hand side of the page).
Thanks very much!
Without having read the book..
Spoiler:
First bit sounds awesome, end bit (about 'a single marine') a load of nonsense..
The Tallarn: Executioner HH book mentioned on the last page is another one of those order for a week limited novellas, according to the e-mail updated for the Scorched Earth Novella that I just received.
xowainx wrote: The Tallarn: Executioner HH book mentioned on the last page is another one of those order for a week limited novellas, according to the e-mail updated for the Scorched Earth Novella that I just received.
That's annoying was looking forward to picking it up at GD. I don't know if this has already been happening but it looks like BL are going to start re-publishing the SM battle novels in hardback.
I could not bring myself to wait for the normal paperbacks so I have started buying the audio versions, I just listened to Betrayer and I must admit I think I quite like them, they seem to have improved since my last one a while back.
For a chapter named the Blood Drinkers that is incredibly unimaginative.
Actually that's not the big revelation, the big revelation is the thing that happens to some members of the chapter, 18 so far (dun dun dunn!!!), and who is the cause behind it.
Rayvon wrote: I could not bring myself to wait for the normal paperbacks so I have started buying the audio versions, I just listened to Betrayer and I must admit I think I quite like them, they seem to have improved since my last one a while back.
Are all the books out in audio format ?
I don't think they've released them all yet but a lot of them are available but the first three are only available in abridged version . I've been listening to Betrayer myself while at the gym and I've been quite surprised too by how good they are, the only downside is that I'm not a big fan of the voices they give some of the characters.
For a chapter named the Blood Drinkers that is incredibly unimaginative.
Actually that's not the big revelation, the big revelation is the thing that happens to some members of the chapter, 18 so far (dun dun dunn!!!), and who is the cause behind it.
So I just finished Sword of Truth and loved it. It's the best Audiobook I've listened to so far but it certainly made me think of the conversation a few pages ago about The White Scars impeccable loyalty.
‘I have an idea,’ I said. That’s how it started. That’s how it always starts, before the deadlines kick in and the fear grips me. It’s always an idea.
In this case, the idea seemed simple. Codex: Space Marines was coming out, so why didn’t we do a series of micro-short stories to accompany it? Why not emulate our Advent Calendar from December 2012 and do a story every day for a few weeks, each about different Space Marine Chapters? ‘Yes,’ said everyone immediately. ‘Go on and get that sorted then, Graeme.’
Ah, there’s the fear.
I joke, of course. Gathering these stories was such an absolute delight that I am currently doing the same again for the 2013 Advent Calendar. But I digress. I’m here to talk about Space Marines: Angels of Death. What is it? Well, starting today, you will be able to buy a brand new Space Marine micro-short story from blacklibrary.com every single day until the 26th of September.
That’s right, twenty-six short stories about the defenders of humanity. What’s more, each one is about a different Chapter, some of them very well known, some… less so. All of the loyal First Founding Chapters will be represented, along with Successors and others. Some of the tales tie in to existing Black Library stories – such as Guy Haley and Rob Sanders’s contribution, which have links to their Space Marine Battles novels, while others are simply cool stories from authors old and new…
I’ll be joining you on the blog every day to introduce each tale, so I’ll keep this brief (I even bore myself sometimes, so I can’t imagine how interminable you, dear reader, find my ramblings…).
We start today with the Ultramarines – who else? – and a tale called, appropriately enough, ‘Codex’ from the pen of Graham McNeill. This story showcases the sons of Guilliman doing what they do best and should please those of you who have been dying to know what Uriel Ventris has been up to since the Iron Warriors’ invasion of Ultramar was thwarted in The Chapter’s Due (available in Ultramarines: The Second Omnibus).
I’ll leave you to download and enjoy Graham’s contribution to the collection. See you tomorrow when I’ll be talking about ‘Death Speakers’…
The Thousand Sons and the Space Wolves - two Legions whose destinies were irrevocably entwined at Prospero, and yet who now dance separately to fate's tune. As sanctioned executioners, the Wolves of Fenris were meant to root out treachery at the heart of the Legions...but would they be capable of carrying out a death sentence upon one of the Emperor's own sons? Meanwhile, Ahzek Ahriman and Magnus the Red cast their sight over the galaxy, seeking any clue as to what the future might hold.
We've just enjoyed a long weekend in Berlin and as we were trying to pack light, I did the unthinkable (for me), and downloaded a full e-book onto my Nexus 7. It was Priests of Mars, an excellent book, but there was one thing I didn't like (apart from it not being a paper book) - all the gaps you get when the narrative is changing from one section of the story to another were gone, so that you went from one sentence in one section, to a completely different scene in the next sentence. Very jarring and it sometimes took me a few seconds to realise what had happened and backtrack to make sense of it.
I'm using the Aldiko app, as the Kindle app doesn't seem to recognise the downloads on the Nexus (both formats) - is this problem of vanishing gaps a common problem with e-books?
also got some small snippets about the future of the HH series
Spoiler:
Graham McNeill is best known for his novels set in the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 settings. His works include the incredibly successful False Gods, and the Gemmell award winning book, Empire. His latest novel, Lords of Mars, was released recently...
Starburst: Tell us a bit about Lords of Mars.
Graham McNeill: Lords of Mars is the second part of my Mars trilogy. It’s set just as an exploratory fleet gets across the edge of the galaxy and into the unknown wilderness beyond that. It’s a chance to take the readers beyond their comfort zone and challenge all the things they know about the Imperium. It’s a region where all the normal institutions are gone, and they’re properly on their own.
What’s in Lords of Mars for those not entirely familiar with the Warhammer 40,000 setting?
It’s a way that you can explore what The Imperium of Man is from an outsider’s point of view. The Mechanicus are part of, but separate from the rest, and because the story is set in an exploration fleet, there’s all sorts of branches of The Imperium that we can observe. We have Rogue Traders, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, so we get a nice spread of the culture.
What’s the lasting appeal of the Warhammer 40,000 setting?
For me, it’s that it isn’t all shiny. Everything is broken down and mankind is fighting for survival in a hellish, nightmare world. 40K is very grimy and very little works; the only stuff that works is the robust stuff, not because people understand how to fix it. When I’m writing, I tend to look at the story first and then bring out the 40K-ness out of it later.
Will we see anymore Ultramarines stuff?
Yes, absolutely. You’ll see a lot more Ultramarines stuff from me over the coming years.
What real world influences do you bring to your work?
I have an interest in science as a discipline and I think that to understand what things are and how they work is a beautiful thing. If you don’t understand, you ask and learn and grow. It’s something I’ve tried to do all my life. I’m very interested in history. Anything that really appeals to me as a person I try to bring into a story in a way that works but without crow-barring it in. Just because I like something it doesn’t mean it will fit the story.
Tell us more about the Arkham Horror books you’ve written.
Writing in a day to day setting was very different from the Warhammer books. The main characters’ concerns are very much like ours are, they’re ordinary people. Reporters, Universtiy lecturers, that sort of thing. Their concerns are things like a roof over their heads, so writing people who aren’t necessarily going to be dragged in to save the world or save the galaxy or what have you was, weirdly, more of a challenge. Trying to write someone who is “ordinary” while still making their conversations interesting whilst at the same time dragging them into this Lovecraftian world was tricky. Writing real world fiction should be easier given that we live in the real world, but it’s not. The books are set in the 1920s, so getting used to the way people speak and live was interesting and a lot of fun. They were probably the three books I had the most fun writing, especially when that world was ending and everyone was going mad.
Your background is in table top gaming. How does that mesh with the writing?
These days almost not at all. I’ve two little ones under four, so the time I have for tabletop gaming is next to zero. I still keep up to date with what’s coming out, because that informs my work, but it’s very rare I get the chance to throw dice on a table top and move toy soldiers around.
What can we expect from your next Horus Heresy novel?
Currently I am working on Vengeful Sprit, which is a Sons of Horus centric novel. It brings the Warmaster back into centre frame, because for a while we’ve been telling stories about the other Primarchs. What the Warmaster was doing is something that we don’t know an awful lot about. We’ve spent a lot of time figuring out what the major characters have been doing, and it’s about time to remind the readers why it’s his name on the series title. The book will bring him front and centre to the Heresy and remind the readers just how terrifying The Sons of Horus are when they make war.
Who will write the last Horus Heresy book?
It’s not called the long war for nothing. That’s a question that will come up much, much later on. There’s plenty more to come, and we’ve got a lot planned, right down to the artwork. At this rate I’ll be getting my four-year old to write it when he comes of age. As Aaron put it, “I fear for our friendships when we get to the end of this.” We are all very invested in it, and yes, there will be one book that ends it all, but everyone will be writing an aspect of it. Holographic Storytelling, as Jim Swallow puts it.
Is there a tie-in franchise you’d love to be involved with?
There’s the obvious ones like Star Wars and Doctor Who, I’d love to do stuff with that. I’m a big fan of the Firefly universe. I kind of hope there isn’t any official tie-in stuff for that but I’d love to do something with that.
What other things inspire you?
Films, music, art, books, people around me, things I over hear, things I see and then do a double take and realise that it’s not what I thought it was, and then wonder what if it was. Comics, anything, it’s all grist to the mill. You need to fill your mind with idea fuel. I might read the same things as another writer and we’d both come away with different ideas. Everything and anything, it’s all sensory input that you bring in and mash up to see what comes out the other end.
What’s the weirdest thing that’s ever happened to you?
There’s too many. Probably being given an Axe for Empire, The David Gemmel Legend Award.
If you were stranded on a desert island what book would you want for company?
Legend by David Gemmel.
Tzeentch or Nyarlathotep?
Tzeentch, because you would never be bored. With Nyarlathotep you’d be endlessly entertained for a fraction of a second and then it’d all be over when your mind broke.
The Simpsons or Futurama?
Futurama.
Fantasy or Science Fiction?
Those are my babies. Fantasy.
Sigmar or The Emperor?
Sigmar.
Truth or Beauty?
Truth. Beauty fades but truth is eternal.
It’s not called the long war for nothing. That’s a question that will come up much, much later on. There’s plenty more to come, and we’ve got a lot planned, right down to the artwork. At this rate I’ll be getting my four-year old to write it when he comes of age.
According to the Facebook of AD-B, we will at some point be getting a new Night Lords short story...At least, he's writing a short story, and the word doc is entitled "First Claw".
Looking forward to it, really did love the original trilogy.
It’s not called the long war for nothing. That’s a question that will come up much, much later on. There’s plenty more to come, and we’ve got a lot planned, right down to the artwork. At this rate I’ll be getting my four-year old to write it when he comes of age.
I don't doubt that for a second, actually!
....it's not called The Long War! It's just the Horus Heresy. The Long War is what it becomes after The Scouring. Anyway, I'm sure his point is there's gonna be a lot books...
Compel wrote: So does that mean there will be more than the 50 they stated a few months ago?
It may stay a fifty, but with a future change of format it will be twenty years before the next mmpb. Sorry still a little bitter about that. I think with certain authors getting pulled off for other projects that another 20+ books will still be a long time to wait. It will be another 5+years at least, then probably a book or two for each chapter describing the post death of Horus days.
It’s not called the long war for nothing. That’s a question that will come up much, much later on. There’s plenty more to come, and we’ve got a lot planned, right down to the artwork. At this rate I’ll be getting my four-year old to write it when he comes of age.
....I thought the Long War referred to the 10,000 years AFTER the heresy that Chaos has been waging against the Imperium.
kitch102 wrote: Received confirmation that Scorched Earth is shipping out today. Not heard much from you guys on this, how many of us took the plunge and bought it?
Read Betrayer and Angel Exterminatus when I was traveling around the country for work.
Angel Exterminatus was meh, but it was good to read about Perturabo.
Betrayar was kick ass. Angron is a right, angry bastard and this book did a good representation of him and Lorgar. I have listened to the short Audio drama where Lorgar and Angron first set off on their "good will tour" of Ultramar Segmentum, and this continued that story nicely.
kronk wrote: Read Betrayer and Angel Exterminatus when I was traveling around the country for work.
Angel Exterminatus was meh, but it was good to read about Perturabo.
Betrayar was kick ass. Angron is a right, angry bastard and this book did a good representation of him and Lorgar. I have listened to the short Audio drama where Lorgar and Angron first set off on their "good will tour" of Ultramar Segmentum, and this continued that story nicely.
I enjoyed Angel Exterminatus, but only when it focused on the Iron Warriors, and last week I read Fulgrim (been reading through all of the HH in order), and I've come to the conclusion that there is just something terribly, terribly wrong with the Emperor's children. Out of all of the fallen legions that took place at the Isstvan III, the Emperor's children just seem to fall the quickest and the hardest. I almost sort of think about the fight between Ferrus and Fulgrim in Ferrus's hall of weapons (I can't remember the name ) and think about the point in Star Wars Ep 3, where Obi Wan is standing above Anikan in the lava pits, and is like, "YOU HAD IT ALL!" Fulgrim's descent into chaos seemed to be fueled by a level of petulance that he had. Striving for perfection left him open to critisicm which he couldn't handle until his fall to chaos because by that point his 'perfection' was only visible to him and his legion and anyone that couldn't see it just didn't know wtf was going on. The levels of depravity shown by the EC disgusted me, and I'm sitting here going, "really, is there no depth that they will not sink to in this search for the ultimate stimulus?" And it just bugged me.
Perturabo's turning against the Emperor makes a little more sense in the fact that he wasn't tempted by Chaos, he despised it at first (we see this changes due to his "Daemon Primarchness" that he is now), and that he turned against a man and brothers that did not show him the respect that he earned. Out of all of the people to turn against the Imperium, I feel like Perturabo is the most "real" in that he wasn't tempted with visions of glory or grandeur, but he was just a hard working stiff looking for his due.
Greatly enjoyed the IW stuff of Angel Exterminatus, but I could have done without the Emperor's Children.
I too found the EC revolting. I enjoyed reading about them in Fulgrim but they just........ Disgust me now. The Iron Warriors were well written and Perturabo is a likeable character. In fact, I almost found it hard to view him as a "traitor". He doesn't exude that evilness like Fulgrim does. I was however surprised he fell for the "gift" gimmick from Fulcrum.
Well, it is canon that the EC became like, one the most hated of all the traitor legions among both the Imperials and the traitors. That opinion of them is rather consistent whenever Slaaneshi marines are brought up in novels, RPGs, and where-ever else, far as I know.
Perturabo's turning against the Emperor makes a little more sense in the fact that he wasn't tempted by Chaos, he despised it at first (we see this changes due to his "Daemon Primarchness" that he is now), and that he turned against a man and brothers that did not show him the respect that he earned. Out of all of the people to turn against the Imperium, I feel like Perturabo is the most "real" in that he wasn't tempted with visions of glory or grandeur, but he was just a hard working stiff looking for his due.
Which again summarizes how hard it is to 'make real' the Primarchs' falls.
Especially Perturabo.
He turned against humanity, helping to slaughter billions and potentially doom all of Mankind because... he didn't get enough "attaboys" and back pats.
A huge problem with 40K is that "Chaos" is a really, really bad thing.
Really bad.
Signing up with "Chaos" generally screws you up, horribly.
Actually, I always thought Peturabo's fall made more sense compared to a lot of them. Being used for the most gruelling engagements, time after time, his sons blood used to pave the way for the 'cool kids' who took the plaudits - can completely understand the growing bitterness and resentment that results in him eventually turning. Just about to read Angel Exterminatus, assuming that this book doesn't radically alter that piece of background?
Horus on the other hand.. we still really don't know why he turned (other than 'a wizard did it'), which is kind of a problem considering the entire Heresy narrative is based on Horus saying 'Hang on a moment, I want to be in charge, goodbye 200 years of faithful service, dad you can feth off, lets turn the galaxy on its head!'
There really won't ever be a 'good enough' reason, other than "They was duped! And now...tough crap, its too late for you, so, bring on the Long War!"
I think where they are headed is going to be a version of..."It is mostly the Emperor's Fault!" - and that...is lame.
They'll go for something like...his secretive nature and ultimate 'end use' for the Primarchs were the chink in his armor that let the Chaos Gods in, and enabled their eventual manipulation and downfall.
But...in the end, "Chaos' in 40K (and WFB) is a lose-lose thing.
No one who 'signs up' with Chaos benefits in the end...
Agree with Alph. Seems to me that either CSM were shnookered or they're irrational. Or both. It's hard to argue that turning to Chaos was an informed, sane decision.
Sorry Manchu - I edited in more thoughts on where I think they might be going with this, so maybe you only still partially agree with me?
But as usual, you sum it up nicely - "It's hard to argue that turning to Chaos was an informed, sane decision."
I'm sure that the Word Bearers would disagree with the 'informed, sane decision' They did travel through massive parts of the galaxy tracking down the old religion. Lorgar and Erebus also seem to be the most informed about Chaos and its plan, everyone else though... "ooh this looks fun." But then again, even out of the 'cult troops' (noise, berserkers, plague, 1k sons), only 1 of them willingly took to the Chaos god they were serving without issue (Fulgrim), though he didn't quite know what he was serving until that was revealed to him.
Horus: Turned to chaos because the Emperor was 'leaving' the galaxy to the humans and not the astartes.
Fulgrim: Similar viewpoint as Horus, but only gave thought to it after being tainted by Slaanesh on Laer, quickly devolves into a quest to experience everything and ever deeper pits of depravity
Mortarion: Viewed the Emperor as a faceless being ruling from on high, reminded him about the people on his home planet
Angron: Emperor betrayed his trust by not giving him the gladiator's death he so richly deserved/didn't save his homeboys like the Big E had saved others.
Kurze: He and his sons felt the Emperor was lying to them all (can't really remember why he betrayed the Imperium
Perturabo: Looking for the respect he and his sons deserved, felt that Horus's future would granted him such respect (also could get back at Rogal Dorn)
Lorgar: Was humiliated because he venerated the Emperor as a god, realized that there were truths to the old religion of Colchis, and sought out those gods to give his praise and worship to.
Magnus: Was a loyal son to the Emperor, but made a deal with Tzeentch to save his sons from the Space Wolves, but was loyal up until that point (yes?).
Alpharius: Loyal to the Emperor 10,000 years later.
So most of them already had issues with the Emperor in which chaos didn't really come into play, and they may have turned against the Imperium anyways. Honestly, take the gods of Chaos out of it, and you'd have a similar story. Sadly all of this hinges on Horus falling from grace and accepting his ambitions instead of following in the steps that the Emperor laid out before him.
There's a difference between turning away from the Emperor and turing towards Chaos. I think many of them just rebelled and is often the case in 40K they end up selling their souls to the devil for victory before they know what they've done.
Anyway, as for most plausible Traitor I would say Angron in fact I would say his rebellion was inevitable. I actually think it was a bit implausible for The Emperor to not see that coming.
I don't know. I think Horus makes sense. He thought he could do a better job than The Emperor. When he rebelled it opened the eyes of other Primarchs. Like, if Horus actually thinks this is right and can be done well...maybe it can. He was the first domino because everyone thought so highly of him.
People have done the same thing IRL. Also Horus slaughtered and killed and subjugated millions before betraying The Emperor. That was his job. He just decided to do of for himself instead of The Emperor who he started feel like had abandoned him to do his job.
Horus: Turned to chaos because the Emperor was 'leaving' the galaxy to the humans and not the astartes.
Let's not forget that there was a parrot on Horus' shoulder influencing him that the Emperor was lying to him and was not the true "Emperor" to be exalted.
Now consider the source of that parrot, and you'll see some of the butt-hurt being projected to Horus with the parrot's sales-pitch.
Fulgrim: Similar viewpoint as Horus, but only gave thought to it after being tainted by Slaanesh on Laer, quickly devolves into a quest to experience everything and ever deeper pits of depravity
The Emperor's Children's fall is probably one that was the most "involuntary". Fulgrim was seduced/possessed whereas his weakness of pride and seeking ultimate perfection was used against him. This started the trickle-down effect that eventually encompassed the legion. Fulgrim only realized too late (Istvaan V) that he was what he was.
Mortarion: Viewed the Emperor as a faceless being ruling from on high, reminded him about the people on his home planet
This one is quite the mystery to me as from what I've read so far, there is no definitive reason for Mortarion's turning other than he was a close ally of Horus. The psychological aspect of him viewing the Emperor as similarly as the Dusk Lords of his home planet seem "off" to me, considering the oppressive nature of his home environment vs running with the Imperium and re-establishing/freeing old colonies throughout the galaxy under the Imperium's aegis.
Angron: Emperor betrayed his trust by not giving him the gladiator's death he so richly deserved/didn't save his homeboys like the Big E had saved others.
Angron was probably the most flawed of the Primarchs save for Kurze (but for a different reason). Plucking a super-genetic warrior from his environment and giving him a legion with no guidance, seems to me a very hasty and un-planned action that has the potential to be a train-wreck. Needless to say Angorn had issues which I'm sure all agree.
Kurze: He and his sons felt the Emperor was lying to them all (can't really remember why he betrayed the Imperium
Kurze, like Angron was a product of his environment a bit. He had to put-down the criminal domination of his planet by being the thing people feared in the dark. He was the bogey man and he played it up to instill subjugation through fear. Though I do not think Kurze was inherently mean or callous as he did "clean" the government and allegedly made his planet a better place to live. Other than being cursed with some self-omnipotence (ala Sanguinius) he seemed to have some sort of "oppression" syndrome where I believe he "rebelled" because of his legion being reined in a bit due to their psy-op shenanigans during the crusade. His turning had nothing to do with chaos, but more of a honest rebellion to the powers that be.
Perturabo: Looking for the respect he and his sons deserved, felt that Horus's future would granted him such respect (also could get back at Rogal Dorn)
This is probably the more "human" reaction for why he turned and is somewhat believable. Perturabo was always painted as a brooding figure in the old Index Astartes articles, and it appears that picture has changed.
Lorgar: Was humiliated because he venerated the Emperor as a god, realized that there were truths to the old religion of Colchis, and sought out those gods to give his praise and worship to.
Well, someone had to start the fall I suppose. Lorgar and his crew being censured by the Emperor was the catalyst that started it all. Their quest of finding the old religion plus their hatred of the Emperor and lobbying for allies to pursue their cause is pretty much the start of the "long war".
Magnus: Was a loyal son to the Emperor, but made a deal with Tzeentch to save his sons from the Space Wolves, but was loyal up until that point (yes?).
Like the Emperor's Children, another unfortunate tragedy for a legion with good intent. Magnus was always dealing with Tzeentch, but he didn't know it until he had to save his legion during the Prospero invasion.
"Turning" was a way of survival and then later became about revenge.
Alpharius: Loyal to the Emperor 10,000 years later.
Lots yet to be known about the Alphas, however, I haven't read beyond Legion and the Primarchs to know any more about Alpharius (or Omegon).
Mortarion nearly died freeing the mortals of his adoptive planet from his vampiric "father" -- then the Emperor stepped in and saved him and everyone else. So the Emperor pretty much invalidated Mortarion's self-confidence from the start.
Back in the day wasn't the reason he was corrupted because he was caught on a ship stuck in the warp? Then the HH books retconned it so he was a traitor even before then?
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Back in the day wasn't the reason he was corrupted because he was caught on a ship stuck in the warp? Then the HH books retconned it so he was a traitor even before then?
Or was it always like this?
Back in the Index Astartes/Visions of Heresy Days, Mortarion willingly joined Horus as he thought it was for the good of the Imperium. However he gets stuck in the Warp and exposed to a virus and while in agony pleads to Nurgle to save him, thus turning over to Chaos out of despair. The entire thing was a trap set up by Lorgar IIRC.
I don't know if the novel series will change it though. They've already retconned Fulgrim becoming a Daemon Prince to during the Heresy instead of after it as it had been established in Index Astartes. In addition, Fulgrim broke free of the Daemon that possessed him from that sword in the book series whereas originally he was pretty much completely taken over and locked in that painting while that Daemon took his body.
Plus the whole Unremembered Empire/much larger role for Calgar in the Heresy thing are other drastic changes. The books are moving away from the classic Heresy description, which could be fine if written well.
Visions of Heresy describes Mortarion's reason for going alongside Horus simply because he had barely seen the Emperor, but had fought alongside Horus for years and had a great respect for him.
But yes of all the Traitor Primarchs he has the weakest motivation. Horus himself had a pretty pathetic excuse as well and was basically tricked.
Lorgar, Angron, Magnus and Curze all have been written solidly why they turned at least. Angron probably had the most legitimate reason.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Pulled out an old 2nd edition codex and it says Mortarion went rogue because he "believed that he was the herald of a new age of justice".
I find Mortarion's reasons always to be the most nebulous. It pretty much just always comes down to "meh, why the heck not?"
Agreed. It just didn't "feel" like Mortarion had an axe to grind with anything other than having an issue with the Librarious program pre-Nikea.
Visions of Heresy describes Mortarion's reason for going alongside Horus simply because he had barely seen the Emperor, but had fought alongside Horus for years and had a great respect for him.
But yes of all the Traitor Primarchs he has the weakest motivation. Horus himself had a pretty pathetic excuse as well and was basically tricked.
Lorgar, Angron, Magnus and Curze all have been written solidly why they turned at least. Angron probably had the most legitimate reason.
This is probably a better detailed reason, but still kind of weird? Agree with most of the others though....
BrookM wrote: I think I remember Horus referring to Mortarian in one of the novels as a toadying oaf who will do anything to please him.
I have not found that quote yet, unless it happened in the first three books because I don't remember much of them.
As for Mortarion being stuck in the warp and diseased and turning to Nurgle, we've only experienced that with his Commander during Flight of the Eisenstein, according to Lexicanum he was stuck in the warp on the way to Terra and that's when it happened. To our knowledge, Mortarion is still the gaunt figure he's always been.
Also, I'm not sure if my little analysis of the Primarchs caused all this discussion, but it's been nice to sort of fill the void while we way for the next book.
Also haven't started reading Vulkan Lives, I'll probably throw it on my Kindle this weekend... I've just been trying to get through the rest of the HH, and Descent of Angels is dry as hell...
I find Mortarion's reasons always to be the most nebulous. It pretty much just always comes down to "meh, why the heck not?"
Good point - and to me, that's what a lot of the 'justifications' feel like.
And even IF you could somehow justify the Primarchs original turn to Chaos, there's no way you could ever convince anyone that it is a 'good idea' in 'Modern 40K'.
The only way "Chaos" works there is as an infectious disease - impossible to resist once you're infected.
Which would only make it all the more unlikely that anyone would willingly sign up.
Harriticus wrote: Visions of Heresy describes Mortarion's reason for going alongside Horus simply because he had barely seen the Emperor, but had fought alongside Horus for years and had a great respect for him.
But yes of all the Traitor Primarchs he has the weakest motivation. Horus himself had a pretty pathetic excuse as well and was basically tricked.
Lorgar, Angron, Magnus and Curze all have been written solidly why they turned at least. Angron probably had the most legitimate reason.
I disagree about Horus. At first it seems like yes he was just tricked but upon closer inspection of False Gods he straight up tells Erebus to stop his tickery. That he knows everything he's seeing is without context and context is everything. That's how he leaves it. He then later makes the conscious decision to betray The Emperor anyway.
So it wasn't simply a matter of seeing statues of the God-Emperor everywhere and him being jealous that set him off.
I think simply seeing someone being worshiped and venerated as a living God opened up Horus's mind to the possibility of such a thing in a bad way. At the very core it was Horus's hubris that caused his rebellion not just some trick.
I find Mortarion's reasons always to be the most nebulous. It pretty much just always comes down to "meh, why the heck not?"
Good point - and to me, that's what a lot of the 'justifications' feel like.
And even IF you could somehow justify the Primarchs original turn to Chaos, there's no way you could ever convince anyone that it is a 'good idea' in 'Modern 40K'.
The only way "Chaos" works there is as an infectious disease - impossible to resist once you're infected.
Which would only make it all the more unlikely that anyone would willingly sign up.
How I'm going to think of him now is according to what Harriticus said. He was simply 100% loyal to Horus not that Emperor guy he's barely seen with his fancy, super-shiny, gold armour. He'd been on the leading edge of the Crusade for decades with Horus as his battle brother and also he doesn't believe in shiny, pretty armour. Dull, unpainted armour is totally the way to go...
Bear in mind Alph that none of them know that. Chaos as we know it doesn't really exist to them in a sense. All information was kept pretty hush hush about the warp and such. So I think it's more a case of one brick at a time on the road to hell.
As for the Traitors:
Horus: I would have been fine if it was just I know better than dad does so f-him. But a super genius general/politician being so easily manipulated by what was generally considered the sissiest primarch was a bit much.
Angron: That nail affected his brain. He was going to rebel or need to be purged eventually.
Magnus: More driven into the enemies arms than actually rebelling. Combined with a previous deal with the warp meant he was doomed anyway.
Logar: Knows he's a sissy. Went looking for something that would make him as cool as his bros. His fall makes sense to me.
Kurze: Ideological differences and being slightly nuts. Rebellion or purging was likely from the start with this one.
Mortarion: No real good reason to rebel so I don't get it.
Fulgrim: Possession preying on his hubris and desire to be loved/the best. He didn't really fall, chaos engineered his. He wasn't really tricked either. Just picked up the wrong weapon.
Perturabo: My favorite primarch as written so far. But his reasoning for going bad was partially anger at getting all the dirty jobs and partly guilt over his reaction to being the only primarch who's homeworld went into open rebellion. His fall is pretty much about timing.
Alpharion/Omegon (or whatever): Because aliens told us to!
Yes, as for the "modern" traitors not everyone in 40K has read the BRB.
In the previous Chaos codex there's a short story about one Space Marine's fall. A sergeant Constantinius and it's very believable. In 40K the road to The Warp is more often than not paved with good intentions.
Hulksmash wrote: Bear in mind Alph that none of them know that. Chaos as we know it doesn't really exist to them in a sense. All information was kept pretty hush hush about the warp and such. So I think it's more a case of one brick at a time on the road to hell.
I know - which is why I said even if you can explain the original fall, no one would sign up down the road!
Alpharion/Omegon (or whatever): Because aliens told us to!
Don't get me started on that one.
OK, too late!
I still hold out hope that Dan was going somewhere really cool with what he started in LEGION - that the Alpha Legion was playing a tricky long game, looking to find a way out 'For the Emperor" and remain, in some strange way, Loyal to that to this day.
Some glimpses of that still show up - like spacing the Cabal's ambassador in one scene, but then, a lot of additional appearances go back to mustache twirling, and even worse, the OMG 'shocking' revelation that...the only two actual brother Primarchs are going to be at each other! Just like all the other 'brothers' are!
Oh noes! How could we have (NOT) seen this coming?!?
I still have a feeling that we haven't heard the last of the Fulgrim demon,
Spoiler:
in Angel Exterminatus, if i remember correctly, there is a painting of Fulgrim that is gets pissed off at, whether it's Fulgrim or the demon i don't know/it wasn't clear to me.
Grarg wrote: I still have a feeling that we haven't heard the last of the Fulgrim demon,
Spoiler:
in Angel Exterminatus, if i remember correctly, there is a painting of Fulgrim that is gets pissed off at, whether it's Fulgrim or the demon i don't know/it wasn't clear to me.
Spoiler:
If I remember correctly, the Daemon is in the painting now.
Mortarion lived on this awful planet covered in smog. The air was only breathable by mortals near the ground. If you went up mountains, you'd suffocate (and/or melt). Weird vampires ruled the planet and Mortarion was raised by the king of them. They lived up in the smog. Eventually Mortarion grew to hate his adopted father and started to lead the mortals against him in rebellion. He trudged up the mountains and the smog corroded his armor until it all fell off. Eventually he made it to the vampire king but even he couldn't take the poison atmosphere at that point so he fell down in front of him and prepared to die. All the sudden, the Emperor busts in and kills the vampire king. Mortarion swore fealty to the Emperor, who saved him, but felt cheated.
If I remember correctly, the Daemon is in the painting now.
Spoiler:
Fulgrim/Daemon Fulgrim stating that it's really Fulgrim and that the daemon has been cast out, i don't believe it fully, but i might be absolutely wrong.
Manchu wrote: Mortarion lived on this awful planet covered in smog. The air was only breathable by mortals near the ground. If you went up mountains, you'd suffocate (and/or melt). Weird vampires ruled the planet and Mortarion was raised by the king of them. They lived up in the smog. Eventually Mortarion grew to hate his adopted father and started to lead the mortals against him in rebellion. He trudged up the mountains and the smog corroded his armor until it all fell off. Eventually he made it to the vampire king but even he couldn't take the poison atmosphere at that point so he fell down in front of him and prepared to die. All the sudden, the Emperor busts in and kills the vampire king. Mortarion swore fealty to the Emperor, who saved him, but felt cheated.
Ok, that's still a horrible reason though. I still think it makes sense that in addition to that his relationship with Horus was a bigger factor.
I kind of like that background. He spends his whole life trying to accomplish something and then the Emperor shows up and baits him into an unwinnable situation just so he can play deus ex machina. Psychologically, it's a good set up for Mortarion's confidence crisis in the Warp.
Manchu wrote: Mortarion lived on this awful planet covered in smog. The air was only breathable by mortals near the ground. If you went up mountains, you'd suffocate (and/or melt). Weird vampires ruled the planet and Mortarion was raised by the king of them. They lived up in the smog. Eventually Mortarion grew to hate his adopted father and started to lead the mortals against him in rebellion. He trudged up the mountains and the smog corroded his armor until it all fell off. Eventually he made it to the vampire king but even he couldn't take the poison atmosphere at that point so he fell down in front of him and prepared to die. All the sudden, the Emperor busts in and kills the vampire king. Mortarion swore fealty to the Emperor, who saved him, but felt cheated.
I don't remember the vampire bit of it, I always saw it as more of a Frankenstein's monster sort of set up, but otherwise the same as I remember it. He and angron both got the shaft from the emperor showing up and saying "I've got a job for you, and we don't have time for your little issues".
Manchu.. I have read the Adeptus Arstartes article about the homeworld of Mortarion (is it Barbarus?) many times, I can't remember anything about them being vampires?
Black Library Classics: Picked as one of the first books in the Black Library Classics series (£12.99)
they look like they're probably trade paperback size but no actual mention of the format
It's been fifteen years since the first Black Library novel, First and Only, was published and in that time we've released hundreds of novels, eight New York Times bestsellers and won numerous awards.
To celebrate these achievements, we are introducing Black Library Classics, premium paperback editions of some of Black Library's best loved titles complete with new introductions and striking new cover art.
A 416 page paperback with a new introduction and cover flaps.
Pacific wrote: The covers are kind of interesting - they don't look technically brilliant, but are certainly quite characterful.
Wonder if there are any amendments to the stories?
I sincerely hope not, they'll just screw them like when they retconned the Inquisition War trilogy.
I actually found the changes to Inquisition War a little.. it's hard to describe, perhaps 'creepy' is the right word? I'd be interested to find out which megalomaniac ordered it..
At £12.99 they're going to be that bloody awful trade size, the new cover art isn't a patch on the original, and I bet you can still get the original on Amazon, second hand, for a few quid.
what did they retcon in inquisistion wars, and when? i read it as a collection in 2005 or 2006 iirc. PM's are fine if folks are worried about spoilers.
Then you've probably got one of the original versions. In a re-release of Inquisition War, Grimm was completely retconned into an Imperial Tech-priest.
I've got what I believe is a second re-release of the Inquisition War - foreword from Ian Watson about the changing background, and Grimm the Squat is back in it.
BrookM wrote: And Grimm does appear in my Inquisition Wars omnibus and it's not a Heretic Tome to boot!
My copy is an omnibus reprint, the last one I think, and Grimm appears in mine as well. I think the notion that this was retconned is an internet legend.
I'm 98% certain that there was a version with a tech-adept in the place of Grimm. I remember Ian Watson writing about it somewhere, I think he found it curious that it had been done and he they hadn't even bothered to consult him about it.
Anyone know why Mr Watson wasn't popular with GW? I remember hearing years ago about a girl who was went into a GW to take shelter from the rain. Recognising the models she said to a staff member "Hey, my dad used to write about these". The staff asked her who her dad was, when she said it was Ian Watson they kicked her out of the shop into the rain!
If you read anything on the internet about his first 40k novel Space Marine, it's very critical because the book doesn't square with the super serious vision of the world that has developed since Rogue Trader.
cerbrus2 wrote: For any one interested or any fans. Ben did an interview with me for a little insight into some of his novels, and writing for black library and in general.
Pacific wrote: I'm 98% certain that there was a version with a tech-adept in the place of Grimm. I remember Ian Watson writing about it somewhere, I think he found it curious that it had been done and he they hadn't even bothered to consult him about it.
I have the Deathwing anthology where it has a short story, Warped Stars, and Grimm has been replaced by Grill the Tech Priest by the BL team
The Thousand Sons and the Space Wolves - two Legions whose destinies were irrevocably entwined at Prospero, and yet who now dance separately to fate's tune. As sanctioned executioners, the Wolves of Fenris were meant to root out treachery at the heart of the Legions...but would they be capable of carrying out a death sentence upon one of the Emperor's own sons? Meanwhile, Ahzek Ahriman and Magnus the Red cast their sight over the galaxy, seeking any clue as to what the future might hold.
In what can only be described as a coup, I am proud and chuffed to bits to present a most entertaining interview with one of my favourite writers of recent years, a certain Mr Gav Thorpe. A gentleman of legend, a veteran writer and games designer, having learned his trade at Games Workshop HQ. He most recently penned the excellent Ravenwing for the Black Library, it being the first in The Legacy of Caliban trilogy. You may know his name from Angels of Darkness, his seminal 2003 Dark Angels Space Marines novel, or perhaps his excellent Horus Heresy novel, Deliverance Lost. Or you will have read his Time of Legends trilogy, The Sundering. You may even be familiar with his own series, The Empire of the Blood (omnibus edition out this month, published by Angry Robot). If you are a fan of his work, you will enjoy this interview. Even if you haven’t read any of his books, please enjoy this great interview with an author in his prime.
Andrew Jamieson, Editor-in-Chief, Geekzine UK
In Ravenwing, Gav returns to the world of Piscina, previously featured in Angels of Darkness and The Purging of Kadillus
In Ravenwing, Gav returns to the world of Piscina, previously featured in Angels of Darkness and The Purging of Kadillus
Andrew Jamieson: Ravenwing picks up plot strands from Angels of Darkness. Was it always a plan to revisit the planet of Piscina and, ultimately, the aftershock of your 2003 Dark Angels novel, Angels of Darkness?
Gav Thorpe: Angels of Darkness was originally written as a one-off. I certainly would have come up with a different ending if I had wanted it to be part of an ongoing series! I wrote it in a slightly contrary mood, to be honest, and at the time wanted to do something different to Dan’s Gaunts series and Graham’s burgeoning Ultramarines books. So a single self-contained narrative was the goal.
Then I was asked to write for the Space Marine Battles range and it seemed mad not to go back to Piscina, as I had worked on the background of the original Storm of Vengeance campaign pack while at Games Workshop (this would become ‘The Purging of Kadillus’ featuring Dark Angels legend, Belial – editor). When it was suggested a couple of years ago that a new Dark Angels series could be released to tie-in with the updated Codex and the new Warhammer 40,000 boxed set it seemed natural to write a successor story to AoD without it being an out-and-out sequel in the traditional sense.
AJ: How is Masters of Sanctity, the second in The Legacy of Caliban trilogy, coming along and what can you reveal about its plot?
GT: Delivered to the editors so I’m waiting for their comments and rewrites at the moment. It was a bit of a pig in places, with various strands from Ravenwing continuing whilst new narrative threads were being revealed, but I enjoyed it in the end. The book takes a good look at the Deathwing (and would have been called that if not for the short story/ anthology of the same name thanks to Bill King). In Ravenwing one of the point of view characters is Sammael, and in Master of Sanctity I wanted it to be one of the high-ranking Chaplains of the Dark Angels. Talking to fans at events, there seemed to be a pretty even split between those that wanted to see Sapphon and those who wanted more Asmodai fun. I compromised and ended up using both of them, hence the difficulty in fitting in all of the story strands.
In a nutshell, MoS sees the Ravenwing and Deathwing closing in on the Fallen conspiracy that befell Piscina. It’s a question of how far will they go the capture their prey? One of the main cast from Angels of Darkness returns and head-bending ensues.
AJ: Ten years on, Angels of Darkness is still one of the finest Space Marine novels ever written. What are your memories of its inception and creation?
GT: Thanks! I wrote it as a challenge to myself, to create a story about space marines that I felt was true to their character and background but contained enough compelling non-violent conflict to make a good narrative. The idea that there would be two intertwining stories was in my head early on, even though I didn’t know what that story might be – I was inspired by the structure of Memento to explore the timeline in both directions simultaneously, delving into the past even as the consequences of those acts echo into the future.
Gav's seminal 2003 Dark Angels Space Marines novel, Angels of Darkness
Gav’s seminal 2003 Dark Angels Space Marines novel, Angels of Darkness
As with all of my earlier works, it was written whilst I was still full-time at GW, which meant evenings and weekends for the most part. It doesn’t stand out as particularly difficult in my memory, everything was mostly fully formed by the time it came to applying fingers to keyboard. More recent books have given me much bigger headaches even though I have had all day to work on them… the biggest issue was a computer crash just before deadline, in which I lost almost 40,000 words. Aiyiyi! Luckily most of them were still in my head in reasonable order, but I (re)wrote the second half of the book over two weekends and a week of late nights!
I also remember definitely wanting to mess with the heads of Dark Angels fans. Ever since the Angels of Death codex release there had been the notion that somehow the ‘dark secret’ of the Chapter was done and dusted, discussion over. I wanted to turn things on their head, prodding that sense of security with a sharp pointy thing. Even though recent Horus Heresy books have shown the lie of some of the assertions in AoD, the loyalties and goals of the Dark Angels are still far from black-and-white.
AJ: The Empire of the Blood Omnibus is out this month. What pleases you most about this trilogy?
GT: I’m genuinely happy that it was well received and has gathered some really good reviews along the way. Until The Crown of the Blood I had only written tie-in fiction for the Black Library and while I do not see that as anything other than awesome, I was conscious that with the release of TCOTB there would be some hoping I’d fall flat on my face and prove the old saw ‘Tie-in writers only write tie-in fiction because they can’t write their own books’. I couldn’t let down my fellow tie-in authors and more importantly Angry Robot were just starting out but already making waves and getting good press, and it was up to me to keep the good vibes coming. There was some pressure coming out of the comfort zone with Black Library, but since I’d recently left GW and gone freelance full-time the 50/50 terror/excitement ratio seemed natural at the time.
I trusted Marco and the team at Angry Robot not to let something sub-par onto the shelves, so I was confident on an intellectual level, but always there is that gremlin on your shoulder, the doubt fairy smacking you over the head with her wand.
When the first couple of reviews were put up I breathed a big old sigh of relief. I knew I’d written a decent book, the editors knew I’d written a decent book, and thankfully there were others who agreed with us. The fact that people have handed over their hard-earned for a book with my name on the front, and not just because it says Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000, and did so for the next two books, is another adrenaline shot of legitimacy that keeps me tapping away when the words are not flowing well or somebody has slapped up a one-star review for something on Goodreads or Amazon.
Empire of the Blood omnibus edition, available NOW for £9.99 approx.
Empire of the Blood omnibus edition, available NOW for £9.99 approx.
AJ: You are a very versatile writer, switching between the different worlds and the many races of Warhammer, Warhammer 40K, Horus Heresy, plus the world of the Crown trilogy. Is that constant manoeuvring something you thrive on? What is the most challenging aspect of such versatility?
GT: I get bored really easily, though I have a finely tuned challenge threshold as well. Too easy and I can barely muster the energy to start; too hard and I get frustrated. I love keeping things fresh, whether that’s setting, format, or even style. One of the biggest drawbacks is commercial, going back to the issue with Angels of Darkness, for instance. Writing a trilogy is about the furthest extent I have been able to maintain my interest up until now. For this reason, I cut my cloth to that length, rather than weaving even grander epics that could go on to six books, ten, more…
The Sundering, in hindsight, could have been something completely different, for example. If I had known I had the creative stamina it could easily have been nine books rather than three, bringing out some of the lesser characters that had to take backstage because of the structure I had set from the start.
On the other hand, having come to this conclusion, that now becomes the challenge I need to overcome. The Crown of the Blood was a self-contained narrative in the same vein, but the non-Black Library work I hope to be starting soon will focus more on a world that, hopefully, I can create and subsequently explore again and again to my heart’s content. Watch this space (in a couple of years’ time, maybe)!
AJ: The Horus Heresy has become a huge success for the Black Library over the last few years. After the impact of Deliverance Lost, will you be revisiting the story of the Raven Guard Legion? And do you have plans for a Dark Angels HH title?
GT: Yes, and yes. I sorta blabbed a bit too much at the Horus Heresy Weekender event, so I have to watch what I promise. However… >checks no editors are looking< there will be future installments of the Raven Guard coming – I’m writing one at the moment – and I will, if things go to plan – be penning a Dark Angels HH novel sometime next year. And judging by people’s reactions in the meetings we have, that should be very exciting.
Gav's debut novel in the Horus Heresy series, Deliverance Lost
Gav’s debut novel in the Horus Heresy series, Deliverance Lost
AJ: Aside from your work for the Black Library, what other projects are you involved with?
GT: I’ve done a bit of games design – Cutlass! for Black Scorpion miniatures as well as a few personal projects that might see the light of day in the future. I’ve been helping a friend out with a skirmish ruleset too, called Open Combat. That should be public in the next fews weeks, barring any mishaps.
I have also recently been helping with the world design on a forthcoming AAA video game, but NDAs and an enormous legal department prevent me from saying any more at the moment. Except, of course, that the game is going to be awesome, with a capital AWE. No, really, even if I wasn’t creatively involved with the project I know for sure that I’d be playing the hell out of this game when it is released.
I’ve also been working on some fiction for various indie and small press publishers. The only one that seems a certainty to reach readers any time soon is a short story for the Raus! Untoten! project coming from Fringeworks. I love short fiction – the premise of in-and-out quickly – so I’ll be looking to write more in the future. Financially it’ll never pay the mortgage but it’s creatively very rewarding to explore lots of different ideas.
And as I just mentioned, I’m giving myself a break of a couple of months away from commissioned Black Library work to do some stuff that’s more speculative – in the sense that I don’t currently have an agent or editor lined up to pay me wads of cash on delivery yet… Interested parties welcome, all offeres entertained. It’ll be a swords-and-sorcery setting (I’m jokingly referring to it as ‘spellpunk’), I’ve got the plot for the first book in my head and some interesting characters, so we’ll see how it goes. It’s a bit different from Warhammer, and certainly different in tone from The Crown of the Blood, but I’m very excited by the ideas that are coming along with it. It’ll also be pretty short, for a novel, not another 150k epic, which will hopefully mean that I can write plenty more stories in the future without draining myself too much.
AJ: Out of the many books, short stories and varying projects you’ve written, of which are you the most proud of and why?
GT: I can’t choose favourites, it’s a biological impossibility. Really, whether it’s my work, favourite films, bands, etc, it always depends on mood and what criteria I want to apply at any given moment. I think Shadow King is still one of the best, most complete novels I’ve written so far, but I’m really proud of The Crown of the Blood because I dragged it into existence from nothing. From another point of view, there are several collaborative projects at GW I really like, especially the original Codex: Sisters of Battle and the Inquisitor rulebook. One of my earliest short stories - The Faithful Servant - about a warrior priest being tempted by a Champion of Chaos is still one of my favourites. I enjoyed getting into the psychology of the interrogation scenes in Angels of Darkness, so much so that they return, in spirit, in Master of Sanctity.
AJ: What was the last good book that you read? Do you have a favourite book?
GT: The latest good book I’ve finished is Baneblade by Guy Haley. Looking forward re-reading his latest offerings too. Currently enjoying Terminal World by Alistair Reynolds. Don’t have favourites, but a very long list of multiple-reads like Excession and The Lord of the Rings.
AJ: What advice do you have for any aspiring writers?
GT: Finish something. Writers write, authors finish. A 1,000 word short or a 100,000 word novel, get a first draft finished, and then do a rewrite. And another one. And then get feedback and write it again. Short stories are hard but you can turn them around pretty quickly and few folks finish a marathon before they do a 5k run.
Also, work out the ending first and then plan the story to lead you there in the most exciting fashion possible. Synopses and plans are boring but for some of us usually essential.
Far out on the Eastern Fringe, the realm of Ultramar stands alone. Having weathered the Word Bearers’ attack on Calth and the subsequent Shadow Crusade against the Five Hundred Worlds, the Ultramarines primarch Roboute Guilliman now draws all loyalist forces to Macragge as he contemplates a new future for mankind. With the arrival of more and more fugitives from the war that has engulfed the rest of the galaxy, all distinction between friend and foe is lost – isolated from Terra by fearsome warp storms, is Guilliman making a bid for power to rival even the renegade Warmaster Horus?
Guessing this might well be at GDUK on early release ..?
Games Day is the annual celebration of all things Games Workshop. As always Black Library will be there with a host of activities and new releases, as well as giving you the chance to get your hands on pre-release and event exclusive books and get them signed by your favourite author. In addition, there will be two seminars during the day: The morning seminar will be The Horus Heresy: White Scars, Word Bearers & World Eaters. The afternoon seminar will explore the Battlefields of the Horus Heresy: Calth, Isstvan V & Tallarn. We’re also going to have copies of the extremely limited edition The Imperial Truth & Traitor's Gorge, as well as the brand new Angels of Death anthology, and advance copies of The Unremembered Empire, the new Horus Heresy novel by Dan Abnett. We will also be launching the Black Library Classics range with exclusive new editions of First and Only, Nightbringer and Trollslayer. This year’s Games Day will also see Neil Roberts, the talented Black Library cover artist, creating new pieces of work live on the big screen in the Olympus Suite. It’s going to be a fantastic day for all fans of Black Library, so be sure you’re there
Whats Imperial truth and traitors gorge? Are they heresy?
Unremembered Empire is up for pre-order on iBooks, too, with a release date of Oct. 4th...
price is $15.99...
should be interesting...
also, i saw that there is a sequel to Blood of Asaheim coming to print in March...
not sure how much sooner it will go digital...
the first book was fun, and the same pack return, but this time they get a little help from Njal...
if i remember correctly, the book is titled Stormcaller...
i'm really looking forward to this, as i love my Wolves, and Chris Wraight has been written some good stuff...
He’s written about the Iron Hands, the Space Wolves and the White Scars. Is it because he’s a nice guy that he writes about the meanest bastards in Warhammer 40k so well? Who knows! But Chris Wraight has spared some time to speak to the Bolthole.
Not pictured: The pile of slain foes that are Chris Wraight's seat.
Not pictured: The pile of slain foes that are Chris Wraight’s seat. Or the happy, not-a-seat fan he just met.
He2etic: What is the writing process like for you? If you were to describe the process in what word, what would it be?
Chris: One word: difficult. More words: It varies tremendously. I tried to make a commitment not to write weekends and evenings, which sometimes works but tends to fall over when a book is due in. On good days it’s a fantastic way to make a living: creative, exciting and challenging. On bad days it’s just very hard work.
The internet is both a blessing and a curse, of course. I’m always very touched when people get in touch to say they’ve enjoyed something; equally, it’s very easy to find people who hated it. My favourite part of the writer-thing is probably the live events, particularly the Weekenders. Real people is what it’s all about. To chat to someone who enjoyed a book is both a buzz and a privilege.
He2etic: What kind of music and musicians do you think best exemplify the Warhammer and Warhammer 40k universes?
Chris: When I’m writing I normally listen to film scores, partly because I’ve always liked them (ever since Danny Elfman’s music for Burton-era Batman), and partly because I think a good BL book ought to be fairly cinematic: the job of the books in some ways as giving Warhammer the big-screen treatment on the page, and a score gets me into the head-space for that. Hans Zimmer would definitely be the composer for a 40K movie, and that strikes me as no bad thing.
“Real people is what it’s all about. To chat to someone who enjoyed a book is both a buzz and a privilege.”
He2etic: How do you approach character development? Do you prefer to see how the character evolves as you go, or do you put more planning into it beforehand?
Scars (episode 1), by Chris Wraight.
Scars (episode 1), by Chris Wraight.
Chris: Most of the characters are fairly well planned out in advance, especially so when taking on established canon creatures like Bjorn or Schwarzhelm.
People have (rightly) high expectations that BL versions of the Codex characters will stay faithful, and while you can’t please everyone it’s important to at least try to produce something recognisable.
Secondary characters, in my experience, tend to change more during the writing process. The Blood Claws in Battle of the Fang weren’t even in the synopsis, so their stories evolved along with the fighting.
In my most recent book, Master of Dragons, there’s a minor character whose role changed several times as I was writing, ultimately in a way that I ended up liking very much. You’re constantly making decisions as things go along, which is one of the pleasures of story-telling.
He2etic: Were there any particular pieces of fiction that inspired you when writing of the Iron Hands?
Chris: Fiction? Not that I can think of. The imagery for the Hands came more from films, I think. Terminator was in my head quite a lot, and I had James Horner’s score for Aliens on loop when writing the hive-scenes.
Wrath of Iron, by Chris Wraight.
Wrath of Iron, by Chris Wraight.
He2etic: You’ve written books set in both Warhammer universes. Do you find yourself preferring one universe more than the other in anyway?
Chris: I find writing Fantasy comes a little easier, if I’m honest. I think that’s partly due to the fictional world being rooted in a historical real one, at least to some extent. In books like Iron Company, for example, it was fun to think about how real blackpowder weapons functioned, and then translate that to the fantasy environment.
The human characters in Fantasy are also recognisably placed in a pseudo-historical setting – early modern Germany (or Medieval France, etc.). They have similar, albeit altered, concerns to people in real-world settings, so there’s something to latch on to there.
40K is different. It’s such a vast and extreme backdrop that the leap of imagination needs to be bigger. I find Space Marines very difficult to characterise, as well as the general sense of colossal, mind-bending carnage that’s taking place all the time.
I don’t think I’ve ever got it quite right, though it’s always fun having a try. One day I’d love to try something non-Space Marine-centric in the 40K field, like an Inquisitor novel or an Imperial Navy saga, though the audience for such a thing might be… small.
“Stepping up to doing it professionally makes things a bit different – it’s no longer an indulgent business of doing it when you fancy it or when inspiration strikes – it’s a day job, and you need to get words on the page at a pretty consistent rate.”
He2etic: If you could cast anyone to play the roles of main characters in your work, who would you pick?
Sword of Vengeance, by Chris Wraight.
Sword of Vengeance, by Chris Wraight.
Chris: The best suggestion I ever had was for Sean Connery to play the Khan. To see the full majesty of this idea, just Google ‘Zardoz‘.
He2etic: Do you have any long term projects for writing? For example, do you intend to someday spin your own franchise or complete a long novel series?
Chris: Right now I’m concentrating wholly on BL stuff and have lots of ideas for stuff in that setting. Despite writing a handful of novels in both worlds, there’s so much to learn and it’s still very much work in progress. I’m lucky enough to have been given the chance to write some Heresy material recently, and that’s a whole new landscape to get immersed in and try to understand.
Both Warhammer franchises are such huge worlds that there’s still loads I’d love to have a crack at. My ultimate wishlist would be (for 40K) a trilogy on the fall of Iyanden, and (for Fantasy) the Great War against Chaos. I can dream, I guess
He2etic: Who are your favourite characters amongst both those you’ve written, and by other authors?
Chris: In terms of stuff I’ve done, I’m probably fondest of the Fantasy characters: Magnus Ironblood, Pieter Verstohlen, more recently Imladrik in the War of Vengeance series. In 40K/Heresy stuff, I loved writing for the White Scars and like Shiban very much, as well as Targutai Yesugei (who’s really Graham’s character, but he very nicely let me continue his story).
As regards other BL authors, the primarchs are the most compelling for me, Russ in Prospero Burns and Magnus in A Thousand Sons being particularly memorable and nicely drawn.
“You can’t write about the world, even in a fantasy sense, without having lived in it. Get out of the house, meet people, travel, experience new things – you can only tell stories if you have them.”
He2etic: Are there any books, movies, television series or even games that you think are mandatory viewing for struggling writers?
I liked Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip for that, and of course there’s The Shining (all work and no play, and all that). In terms of sheer story-telling perfection, you can’t go wrong with a good Pixar film. The Incredibles was wonderful – funny and clever, Up was heartbreaking. Jim Swallow told me once that every up and coming writer should watch and study the original Die Hard to see how to construct a tight, smart three-act action story. I did, and he’s right.
Blood of Asaheim, by Chris Wraight.
Blood of Asaheim, by Chris Wraight.
He2etic: Any advice for new authors?
Chris: I get asked this from time to time, and never really know what to say. That’s not because of being precious or protective, just because, like a lot of authors, I’m not entirely sure how I stumbled into this thing, have very little idea how I’m still here, and no clue at all how long it will last.
Neil Gaiman talks about the Imposter Syndrome, and he’s quite right. However, in the interests of saying something rather than nothing, I have two thoughts:
1. Read your favourite books again and find out how they do what they do. Good writing, to an extent, can be learned.
2. You can’t write about the world, even in a fantasy sense, without having lived in it. Get out of the house, meet people, travel, experience new things – you can only tell stories if you have them.
He2etic: Have you always written? Was it something that came with time?
Chris: I’ve always wanted to write, and have done so on and off since being at school. Stepping up to doing it professionally makes things a bit different – it’s no longer an indulgent business of doing it when you fancy it or when inspiration strikes – it’s a day job, and you need to get words on the page at a pretty consistent rate. Like all writers, I’ve been learning on the way – making mistakes, screwing up, occasionally getting the odd thing right.
Sword of Justice, by Chris Wraight.
Sword of Justice, by Chris Wraight.
Writing in a shared world brings its own challenges. You’d like to think that you can being original ideas into the setting, things that strike you as being cool or interesting, but you’ve always got to be careful not to step outside the mythos or mangle it into something else. We get a lot of help from the editors with this, of course, but in the final analysis it’s our name on the cover. All fun, though frequently terrifying.
He2etic: What does a typical writing day look like for you?
Chris: I try to keep something like normal working hours. That means starting the morning around 8 or 9, breaking for lunch, writing a bit more in the afternoon and then stopping around 6 or 7pm.
The rules are designed to prevent insanity setting in and total desocialisation, but they tend to get waived when a book’s due in or there’s too much on.
This year’s been very busy, as it turns out. That’s great for a freelancer, but I reckon I’ll need a break once the current book (Stormcaller) is delivered. There are only so many seven-day weeks you can pull before everything starts to look a little hazy…
He2etic: When it comes to reading, do you have any guilty pleasures? Stuff you know is trash but read anyway?
Chris: No, not really. My reading’s been pretty good over the last few months, and I’ve been enjoying the things I’ve picked out. Movies and TV, on the other hand, are a different matter. I have a strange liking for Columbo. And Bullseye. Go figure.
Thanks again to Chris Wraight for his time! Tune in next week for another interview on The Bolthole.
Manchu wrote: Has anyone read Death of Integrity yet?
This thread needs more reviews ...
i read it a couple of weeks ago...
unfortunately, i don't think that my reviews are worth much, since i enjoy every BL novel...
i just love the settings, so i'm happy to have anything to read that takes place in the GW worlds...
what i thought:
having a story about both an Ultramarines and a Blood Angels Successor Chapter was cool, as it's new backstory to delve into...
having them at odds with the Mechanicus made things nice and tense...
the reveal about how the Blood Drinkers control the flaw was not big news, but who is behind the origin of their ritual is!!!
i really like Guy's novels so far...
Skarsnik was the best, for me, but i like 40K way more than Fantasy, so i enjoyed Baneblade and Death of Integrity simply because they bring me back to my Sci-Fi happy place...
he is also very readable, without those long boring sections you have to slog through in some books...
one thing i will say, is the Guy seems to really push the "in-game" aspect in his books...
some character descriptions are lifted straight from the minis GW produces...
some people have stated that they don't like that in the novels they read...
personally, i enjoy it...
i like reading a description of a character, and knowing exactly what mini i would use to represent that character if i wanted to paint one...
i definitely recommend any of Guy Haley's books...
Balance, this was discussed a few pages ago. From Lexicanum...(my bolding)
Characters
Inquisitor Jaq Draco
Callidus Assassin Meh'Lindi - Also in the short-story "The Alien Beast Within" of Deathwing.
Navigator Vitali Googol
Grimm The Squat - Also in Ian Watson's short story "Warped Stars" in the Deathwing collection (rewritten by editors in Black Library's version as "Grill the Tech Priest")
Imperial Fist Captain Lexandro D'Arquebus
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Not just a mention. One of the main characters is a Squat. However, I'm starting to think Manchu is right and the rewrite is just a myth.
Pacific wrote: I'm 98% certain that there was a version with a tech-adept in the place of Grimm. I remember Ian Watson writing about it somewhere, I think he found it curious that it had been done and he they hadn't even bothered to consult him about it.
I have the Deathwing anthology where it has a short story, Warped Stars, and Grimm has been replaced by Grill the Tech Priest by the BL team
So a short story was then I guess. I could see that but not one of the novels. Squats actually have almost the complete opposite belief system as the AdMecha so I can see why the couldn't be bothered to do that. That's a lot of rewriting.
Because someone requested more reviews in this thread, here's my review of Vulkan Lives. A bit late, probably, but I was lazy and didn't get around to writing it in a timely fashion. I'll try and do better with Unremembered Empire
One of the long standing mysteries associated with the Horus Heresy has been the aftermath of Dropsite Massacre, or more specifically the fates of Corax and Vulkan, the two primarchs betrayed on the black sands of Isstvan. The fate of Corax was answered in Deliverance Lost and its preceding audio dramas and with Nick Kyme’s first full length entry in the Horus Heresy, Vulkan Lives answers some of the questions regarding the beleaguered sire of the Salamanders.
While the title of the novel makes it pretty clear what Vulkan’s fate is, Vulkan Lives is more complicated than that, leaving the reader with just as many questions as answers. The story maintains two narratives, one focusing on Vulkan and the situation in which he finds himself following Isstvan, while the other follows a group of loyalist survivors of the massacre, led by Artellus Numeon, equerry to Vulkan, in their effort to disrupt a Word Bearers plot to corrupt yet another world.
Vulkan’s narrative is rich in character development for the Salamander’s primarch, something that was previously sorely lacking within the whole of the Heresy narrative. Captured by his nihilistic brother Konrad Curze, the time Kyme spends creating a clear juxtaposition between the two serves to better develop both characters: Vulkan, compassionate and pragmatic; Kurze, sadistic and impetuous. I’ve read a lot of criticism regarding Kyme’s portrayal of Kurze, that he went from the Horus Heresy’s “Batman Gone Bad” (which is apparently a good thing) to a cookie cutter Rogue’s Gallery villain, but I simply don’t see it. Kurze’s ongoing torture of Vulkan is brutal and sadistic, but it’s the probing of a sociopath that’s trying to see just how many ways he can skin a cat. It may be petulant, but only because Kurze is seeking to satiate his notion that all people, no matter how good, can be goaded into villainy. The Vulkan – Kurze narrative is strong because of these interactions, and we learn a great deal about Vulkan in the process. Were I to pick any nits, it would be the constant hallucinations of Ferrus Manus, his late brother, that Vulkan experiences. They’re there to reinforce Vulkan’s sense of guilt, but at times they feel a bit forced.
While Vulkan’s narrative is really the ‘feature bout’ of the novel, I think the real stars lie in the concurrent narrative featuring Numeon and his not-so-merry band of survivors. Like we saw previously in Angel Exterminatus, Numeon leads a mixed group of Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard legionaries that escaped execution at the dropsite. And much like in Angel Exterminatus, this splinter cell, realizing it won’t ever be able to make war at full strength again, seeks to disrupt as many traitor activities as possible, that goal being to prevent the Word Bearers from further corrupting the ‘blessed world’ Traoris. And just like in McNeill’s book, it works incredibly well here. The greatest thing about these side stories is that it really helps forge the narrative regarding how different the chapter’s combat doctrines and philosophies are. The Salamanders compassion is blended nicely with the Iron Hands’ mechanical indifference and the aloofness of the Raven Guard. The interactions just work. The narrative works, and is particularly well done when Kyme create’s an “Enemy at the Gates”-style sniper showdown between Iron Hands legionary Verud Pergellen and Word Bearer Barthusa Narek, a character that Kyme is able to make entirely likeable, despite the fact that he serves as the narrative’s primary antagonist.
While there’s a great deal more to both the Vulkan narrative and the Numeon narrative, all of those reveals are rich in revelation, something Vulkan Lives is certainly not lacking. Apart from Legion, Vulkan Lives might be the most revelatory of all the Horus Heresy novels yet. I still can’t decide if that’s a bad thing, or a good thing, as some of the reveals in the novel will certainly be (and certainly have been) controversial. I think they’re positives for the overall Horus Heresy narrative, as they’re certainly going to be fodder for driving the story forward; however, they’re paradigm shifting, especially when it comes to the 40k narrative as it presently stands. If there are any really ‘weak’ points to Vulkan Lives and Kyme’s handling of the story, it’s within the content of those revelations and not within his narrative or characterization.
Vulkan Lives is, if anything, an important addition to the Horus Heresy space drama that the Black Library continues to slowly unfold. It answers a lot of questions about Vulkan and his fate while also building upon the precedent set by Graham McNeill regarding the Isstvan survivors and their role in the Heresy. Kyme’s narrative is competent and clear, and his characterizations are well done and yield mostly round characters that help to keep Vulkan Lives from becoming boring. The revelations of the narrative, while sure to be unpopular in some circles, serve to drive the Heresy forward and following in the Black Library tradition of creating two new questions for every one that’s answered.
7/10 – Well done. A must read for any Salamanders fan or anyone well invested in the overall Horus Heresy storyline, and a solid read for the casual fan
Gracias. I'll just start doing the same with any Black Library reviews I do. Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.
From what I gathered, John Grammaticus gives his perpetual abilities over to Vulkan (who is one already) and Vulkan climbs into a coffin that says, "The Unbound Flame" which is one of the 9 Artifacts of Vulkan.
cincydooley wrote: Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.
I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this. Someone posted a review over in Background and while the review itself was not disfavorable the synopsis did make the plot sound really, really dumb.
cincydooley wrote: Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.
I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this. Someone posted a review over in Background and while the review itself was not disfavorable the synopsis did make the plot sound really, really dumb.
Yeah, I read the premise and was....unconvinced. But it's Abnett, so I'll definitely give it a chance.
Question to you all:
When it comes to reviews, how much do you look for in terms of plot synopsis. In mine, I tend to do that at a very high level and talk more about how well the plot is carried out and how well the characterization is, because I think that has a lot more to do with how good a story is, but lots of people prefer different things. I forgo full blown plot synopses mainly because I really dont want to spoil anything for anyone. I've stuck to more or less the same format as you see in the Vulkan Lives review for a while, but am certainly willing to mix things up.
I like high level synopsis. I'm not reading to find out what happens. Rather I'm reading for enjoyment of the act of reading. I like a book to be vivid but more importantly to have interesting ideas. So I prefer reviews that pay attention to theme in addition to plot and characterization. For example, here's a review I wrote for Dead Men Walking:
Manchu wrote: I like high level synopsis. I'm not reading to find out what happens. Rather I'm reading for enjoyment of the act of reading. I like a book to be vivid but more importantly to have interesting ideas. So I prefer reviews that pay attention to theme in addition to plot and characterization. For example, here's a review I wrote for Dead Men Walking:
Really nice! Yeah, I think we're both on the same page then. I loved Dead Men Walking, too. Probably my favorite IG book from the BL, though I did like Titanicus and it's portrayal of the guard as well.
cincydooley wrote: Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.
I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this. Someone posted a review over in Background and while the review itself was not disfavorable the synopsis did make the plot sound really, really dumb.
Yeah, I read the premise and was....unconvinced. But it's Abnett, so I'll definitely give it a chance.
Question to you all:
When it comes to reviews, how much do you look for in terms of plot synopsis. In mine, I tend to do that at a very high level and talk more about how well the plot is carried out and how well the characterization is, because I think that has a lot more to do with how good a story is, but lots of people prefer different things. I forgo full blown plot synopses mainly because I really dont want to spoil anything for anyone. I've stuck to more or less the same format as you see in the Vulkan Lives review for a while, but am certainly willing to mix things up.
Thoughts?
I found your review good the way it was, the fact I'm waiting for the format I like reading means it's a few months wait (lets not have any of the old arguments start ) so the relative lack of spoilers, whilst still giving a good review is very helpful to me as it keeps me interested to read the book without actually knowing what happens in said book (if that makes sense...)
Ah, I knew we'd disagree on something. Mind, it wasn't that the book was about the Mechanicus that bothered me. Just felt like a drag to read. The "Heal Thyself" opener probably encouraged me to get my hopes way up, however.
There was an absolute cracker of a line in Mechanicum... I had written it down, but sadly seem to have lost it. It's during the climax of the story, where the forge world is being destroyed.. "and with that, the chances of an age of enlightenment not seen since the ages of science were lost forever beneath the tides of magma.." (or something similar). Made the hairs on my neck stand on end.. an internet cookie for anyone who knows the exact words!
And it was nice having the universe, and heresy, padded out beyond just stories relating to the Astartes.
McNeil seems to occasionally produce lines like that, there was a similar moment at the end of Fulgrim when the Primarch looking about him at the change of his legion and gives up, that is similarly poetic.
Pacific wrote: There was an absolute cracker of a line in Mechanicum... I had written it down, but sadly seem to have lost it. It's during the climax of the story, where the forge world is being destroyed.. "and with that, the chances of an age of enlightenment not seen since the ages of science were lost forever beneath the tides of magma.." (or something similar). Made the hairs on my neck stand on end.. an internet cookie for anyone who knows the exact words!
And it was nice having the universe, and heresy, padded out beyond just stories relating to the Astartes.
McNeil seems to occasionally produce lines like that, there was a similar moment at the end of Fulgrim when the Primarch looking about him at the change of his legion and gives up, that is similarly poetic.
"And with their destruction, all hope of lifting the Imperium into a golden age of scientific progress, not seen since humanity set forth from its birthrock was lost forever"
It took me a long time to decide on Mechanicum. Immediately after reading it I was simply ambivalent about it. As weeks went on the more I thought about it the more I disliked it. Now I actually hate it. I think it's the worst HH book. I wish I had never even read it.
It's just dumb. I avoid spoilers like the plague but for a while every thread gave away the secret that
Spoiler:
A C'tan was buried beneath Mars.
Fine. That sounds pretty cool actually and I was looking forward to that. But in didn't know the bigger reveal would be that somehow
Spoiler:
The Emperor is like St. George and he like slew a C'Tan dragon in our early history and then kept it in his basement for a while and then flew to Mars and buried it which created the Machine Cult which somehow was the plan all along which is to just show up 30,000 years later and then become the God of that religion whilst simultaneously maintaining a hard line atheist empire....
Ya sorry, you've gone too far there. I can accept a lot of preposterousness in my 40k but that's too much.
The problem is not so much that they are horrible, which they really aren't, but rather that they don't really seem to fit in with the rest of the series -- and this was especially true at the time they were released. Now that the Lion is involved in so many HH books and shot stories, the two DA novels can be read as more relevant. At the time, and even somewhat to this day, they were just holding up the story. You hear the same complaints about Nemesis, a book I actually liked, and at least that one was actually on-point vis-a-vis the HH. That said, neither DA book was particularly strong.
The price of Unremembered Empire looks a bit silly, £9 on Amazon. According to my purchase history I bought Legion (2008) and Prospero Burns (2010) and Know No Fear (2011) for £4 each.
From a technical standpoint, the DA books weren't really that great. Fallen Angels in particular had some pretty awful prose. I personally liked it for some of the characters and being interested in the plot itself.
JWBS wrote: The price of Unremembered Empire looks a bit silly, £9 on Amazon. According to my purchase history I bought Legion (2008) and Prospero Burns (2010) and Know No Fear (2011) for £4 each.
That'll be the new, super duper paperback.
The MMPB prices are around £6 or so (Betrayer just cost me £5.99 IIRC)
The worst you can really say about Deliverance Lost is that its devisive, there seems to be a sizeable minority (myself included) that really enjoyed it.
Hell, I started a Raven Guard 40K army off the back of reading it!
i've enjoyed all the HH simply because they add to the background, evoke imagery, entertain me, and make me want to paint...
fortunately, i'm not married to any of the background, so the arc of changes and retcons since Rogue Trader haven't bothered me at all...
some of the books have been faster, more entertaining, reads...
others have been better back-story...
regardless, i have found them all interesting, and definitely inspiring...
i'm really looking forward to Unrememberred Empire...
Abnett has never steered me wrong...
I liked Deliverence Lost since I love the Raven Guard and I thought it gave us a lot of good insights into the Legion and Corax himself.
Having said that they could easily have cut out a third to a full half the book and shown us more of Istvaan V (or anything else that isn't Raven Guard walking down corridors because Big E lost his spare set of keys or whatever).
d-usa wrote: I think I have enjoyed every "worst" book usually mentioned, so I'm a bad judge...
Haha, yes me too..
Battle for the Abyss had its moments; it was great for illustrating the cracks that were forming between the different Legions before the Heresy had even broken out. It also had a cool World Eater character, and I actually found the '80's action movie henchmen' style of the Word Bearers, gunned down like the rebel guards in Commando, pretty amusing.
I even enjoyed the DA books, the former more than the latter. I mean.. high-tech Knights on horseback fighting daemons is rather a neat concept! It was one of the few examples of a world before the coming of the Legions, and I suppose ultimately is meant to set the scene for why the Lion makes the decisions he did later on (or whatever the hell is meant to happen to him.. in between Gav Thorpe, Michael Scanlon and Mike Lee don't think they really know what they are doing with it to be honest! I have a feeling it's going to end up like 'Lost', the attempts to be enigmatic making the plot meander along in different directions for as long as possible before coming to a 'WTF?!' conclusion that leaves at least 50% of the fanbase with an unhappy look on their face at the conclusion).
Worse book for me was The Primarchs, which felt like a collection of B-sides. Reflection Crack'd, beyond the pretentious use of an apostrophe, I wished I could have erased from my memory after reading as it actually destroyed the emotive power of the full-length Fulgrim story.
Pacific wrote: Worse book for me was The Primarchs, which felt like a collection of B-sides. Reflection Crack'd, beyond the pretentious use of an apostrophe, I wished I could have erased from my memory after reading as it actually destroyed the emotive power of the full-length Fulgrim story.
If we are considering 4 ideas that stuck to the wall but couldn't be fleshed out properly novellas taped together a 'book' then I agree, as bad as some of the others are they usually have redeeming qualities (at least Nemesis showed us a bit of the behind the scenes stuff on Terra, as did Outcast Dead) but I couldn't bring myself to actually finish any of the stories in that.
I thought deliverance lost was okay...but only okay.
Disliked battle for the Abyss.
Liked mechanicum for the most part.
Just sold my collection of books, so I can't remember the name, but it took me months, MONTHS, to read the assassins book and that was around the time I read battle for the abyss as well, which took a long time. If I don't get into the story I can just lay the book down and easily find something better to do.
jah-joshua wrote: i've enjoyed all the HH simply because they add to the background, evoke imagery, entertain me, and make me want to paint...
fortunately, i'm not married to any of the background, so the arc of changes and retcons since Rogue Trader haven't bothered me at all...
some of the books have been faster, more entertaining, reads...
others have been better back-story...
regardless, i have found them all interesting, and definitely inspiring...
Thats pretty much how i am in regards to these novels, although I am notoriously easily pleased with respect to sci-fi writings, im a bit like johnny Five, neeeeeeed innnpput !!
There are none that I really disllike and the retcons dont bother me either, I just imagine it to be a different source from the events at hand, pretty much like when you see stories about stuff that happened in the past and they all say different things.
I am very much looking forward to unremembered empire and I am currently working my way through Vulkan Lives and enjoying that also.
Don't get me wrong. I think the HH books as a whole are about a half step above what the BL used to do. Their overall quality since about 2010 has continued to rise though.
I mean, I don't think any things truly been BAD since sons of dorn.
Manchu wrote: I like high level synopsis. I'm not reading to find out what happens. Rather I'm reading for enjoyment of the act of reading. I like a book to be vivid but more importantly to have interesting ideas. So I prefer reviews that pay attention to theme in addition to plot and characterization. For example, here's a review I wrote for Dead Men Walking:
If that was in part a reference to thread I put up in background about Unremembered Empire, sorry about that. Have only just gotten a copy of the book myself, and I was more looking to get some early discussion about some of the bigger turns and their consequences on the whole of the heresy than anything.
just downloaded The Unremembered Empire...
man, i hope this new tangent is good...
it will be interesting to see the responses start coming in next week, after enough people have had a chance to read it...
i'd crack this baby open right now, but there are waves today, the tide is dropping, the sun is shining, and there are some cuties out in the lineup...
time to close the shop and go surf...
jah-joshua wrote: just downloaded The Unremembered Empire...
man, i hope this new tangent is good...
it will be interesting to see the responses start coming in next week, after enough people have had a chance to read it...
i'd crack this baby open right now, but there are waves today, the tide is dropping, the sun is shining, and there are some cuties out in the lineup...
time to close the shop and go surf...
cheers
jah
Truly he is the man we need, but not the man we deserve!
Enjoy the waves, can't wait to hear what you think about the book.
I think they're pretty independent. You could probably go and do whatever you want with either first. Are you caught up on all the HH books in general?
Compel wrote: Only one I've missed so far is Angel Exterminatus. I should get round to reading that after Brotherhood of the Storm
I would actually read Angel Exterminatus before Unremembered Empire. I get the impression theyr'e related. I'll let you know more this weekend as I get into the book!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh wait. Scratch that. Angel Exterminatus is the Iron Warriors one. I'm thinking of Fear to Tread. Disregard! Disregard!
Just finished reading Unremembered Empire. You'll want to go for Vulkan Lives first, it lends a LOT of context and explanation. Unremembered Empire is tying up that and a lot of other threads. Also, it's fantastic...Gulliman here is an amazing character.
Just to clarify - definitely read Vulkan Lives, Know No Fear, Fear To Tread and potentially a few short stories, although only Prince of Crows is absolutely needed out of the short stories, I think.
Compel wrote: Only one I've missed so far is Angel Exterminatus. I should get round to reading that after Brotherhood of the Storm
I would actually read Angel Exterminatus before Unremembered Empire. I get the impression theyr'e related. I'll let you know more this weekend as I get into the book!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh wait. Scratch that. Angel Exterminatus is the Iron Warriors one. I'm thinking of Fear to Tread. Disregard! Disregard!
I would honestly read at least Know No Fear, Fear to Tread, Betrayer to catch up to the Ultras and BA stuff in Unremembered Empire and then read Angel Exterminatus before reading Vulkan Lives, but read Vulkan Lives before Unremembered Empire as some of the things in Vulkan Lives get finished in UE
After some reflection, I think it stands out as my favourite HH book so far, you know. It's brilliantly written, has some great dark humour in it, manages to have a narrow focus that reflects bigger events and has some awesome characters.
Nope, I'm tearing through my Dresden Files books atm, I just saw some unfortunate spoilers in 40k Background. I should be back on the HH bus in a week or two and I'll be reading Vulkan Lives (I just don't want to read anymore early HH stuff D
From what I gathered, John Grammaticus gives his perpetual abilities over to Vulkan (who is one already) and Vulkan climbs into a coffin that says, "The Unbound Flame" which is one of the 9 Artifacts of Vulkan.
Compel wrote:I think the name of the book gives that second spoiler away...
To be fair, the title of Vulkan Lives has to do with the aftermath of the Drop Site Massacre, the point in my spoilers is from Unremembered Empire, which takes place after the events of Vulkan Lives.
Manchu wrote: It's funny that BL published a book called "Vulkan Lives" ...
...
...
...
...
Spoiler:
... and then killed Vulkan in the very next book, according to early reviews of Unremembered Empire.
Gonna go ahead and say...
Spoiler:
Probably very definitely not true. More than enough evidence on actually reading it that points to him merely being in a regenerative sleep - his mind was shattered at the hands of Curze. Admittedly a sleep akin to death, but nonetheless.
Also, the artwork in this book is amazing. The following is very possibly a spoiler from the book - please only check it at your own risk.
Welcome to a week of blogs dedicated to making sure that you know everything there is to know about the Black Library Weekender, the premium date in our events calendar.
If you’ve never heard of the Weekender before, this event is now in its second year and comprises two packed days of seminars, book signings, exclusive titles and merchandise and an unprecedented level of access to the authors, allowing you to ask those questions you’ve always wanted to know the answers to.
Today we’re focussing on two specific products that will be available for the first time at this event.
Those that attended last year’s Weekender may be able to guess what the first title is. That’s right, a special first edition of Macragge’s Honour will be available to buy. This is the first Horus Heresy graphic novel, which follows the story of Marius Gage and Kor Phaeron’s epic space battle that commences in Know No Fear. Written by Dan Abnett and illustrated by Neil Roberts, this collector’s edition piece features a unique cover and is limited to just 350 copies worldwide. Macragge’s Honour will be available on the sales stand for £85.00.
There will also be exclusive, A3 art prints of each page of the graphic novel. These ultra-rare prints will be signed by both Dan Abnett and Neil Roberts and each will be marked as a limited run of one. Yes, you read that correctly, we will only print one of each so any that you buy will be truly unique.
Continuing the Horus Heresy theme, our other big reveal for today is Visions of Heresy. This mammoth tome, split into two volumes, presented in a hard slip-case, covers the entire story of the Horus Heresy, with new material added by Alan Merrett, the author of Horus Heresy: Collected Visions. We’ve also included all of Neil Roberts’s stunning artwork from the series so far. This book is a must have for all Horus Heresy fans. Visions of Heresy will be available on the sales stand for £150.00.
Tickets are still available for the Black Library Weekender, but are selling fast. Don’t miss out, order yours today.
Before we go, we’ve got another little treat for all you Dan Abnett fans. Today’s Digital Mondays tale lets you read a bit of a curio from the Black Library archive. Vermilion Level, originally published in Inferno! magazine was an original idea for a short story that was later incorporated into the novel First and Only. This download gives you a glimpse at a world that might have been.
Not too keen on the graphic novel cover artwork TBH...
.. still even if I was going to the event in question I wouldn't pay £85 for a graphic novel anyway ...
.. well.... maybe if it was one of those swanky complete "Zenith" reprints but that's a whole other thread.
To my eyes that reads that the collected HH visions is only/always going to be that price..?
Which -- if that is the case-- is a wee bit too steep for my pockets I fear, which is a shame as I'd otherwise been looking forwards to this rerelease a fair bit.
I've asked form some clarification, we'll see what's what I guess.
In other news "Aurellian" will soon be getting a reprint in the same format/method that "Promethean Sun" had, so if you missed out before then it'll soon be your chance again.
GW Fulchester (made up place just in case you wondered) commened
Games Workshop: Fulchester
As you all know, we very rarely produce books, audios or tea-towels relating to the Horus Heresy, as that would spoil the mystery.
That's why we are offering hardcore fans the chance to buy a Graphic Novel detailing a very minor battle in this galaxy spanning battle for the entirely reasonable sum of £85, which we're sure you'd agree is a reasonable price for a comic book.
There will be a host of exclusive products available on the day, including the Black Library Weekender anthology, two Limited Edition Novellas, the first Horus Heresy graphic novel, Macragge's Honour (seen above), and an exclusive edition of the much-anticipated Visions of Heresy. We caught a glimpse of it the other day and it is, without a doubt, one of the most impressive products ever released by the Black Library.
sounds to me then that there will indeed be a more reasonably priced version of the visions collection as/when. Phew !
Think I paid about £15 for the original collected visions books (although it was a while ago now!)
I guess the moment something like this doesn't sell in sufficient quantities, and bounces off the 'ceiling' as it were, then perhaps we might see a return to sane pricing.
BrookM wrote: £85?! £85! What the flipping feth are they thinking?!
They are thinking that people who wish to own one of only 350 Limited Edition Collector's Shiny Fab Beyond Belief versions of the book will be willing to pay £85 for it. Not this callsign. I'll make a decision when I see the retail price for the bog standard version.
Although I coughed up the cash for 2000AD's Zenith reprint without blinking so I can see that people will pay through the nose for what they want.
Okay, so I knocked this one out really quickly. The pacing of the novel was pretty fantastic, and to me hit a really nice sweet spot for Abnett between Know No Fear and Prospero Burns. I also think his characterization here of, well, pretty much everyone, was spot on. Really, really enjoyed it. As usual, my reviews don't contain any plot spoilers, so you can read and get a sense of how I felt about the novel without having anything ruined.
With a saga as large and far reaching at the Horus Heresy, a tale stretching over 30 books & novellas and countless more short stories, there will inevitably come a point when the galaxy stretching stories must finally intertwine and come to a head, where narrative threads will cross over one another and perhaps even conclude. In a series that large, with so many capable authors, it really comes as no surprise that Dan Abnett was tasked with that duty in the new addition to the Black Library’s space opera, The Unremembered Empire.
In The Unremembered Empire, Abnett has created many things: a political tale about a future kingdom; a thrilling game of cat and mouse; the story of lost brotherhood. But most importantly, The Unremembered Empire serves as a nexus for all the Black Library has accomplished thusfar with the Horus Heresy, a place to breathe, gather our thoughts, and prepare for that inevitable conclusion on Terra.
Primarily a story of Macragge and Ultramarines sire Roboute Guilliman, Abnett’s narrative focuses on the aftermath of Calth and the Avenging Son’s desire not only for retribution, but also for preservation: preservation not only for his subjects in Ultramarr, but also the preservation of the Imperium at large. With so much uncertainty following the atrocities of Calth, and with the Ruinstorm severing all ties to the galaxy at large, Guilliman struggles to devise a way to maintain all that his gene-father has accomplished with the Great Crusade without wearing the same usurper crown as his erstwhile brother, the Warmaster Horus. Unwilling to make the decision alone, the unexpected arrival of his enigmatic brother Lion el’Jonson, driven by a mysterious beacon shining solely on Macragge, gives Guilliman another voice to confide in. Unbeknownst to Guilliman however, a Dark Angels secret, ferreted away in the bowels of Jonson’s flagship, will change the fate of Macragge forever.
Like nearly all of Abnett’s Horus Heresy work, The Unremembered Empire is a purposefully paced novel. Somewhere in between the pacing of Prospero Burns and Know No Fear, the narrative drives itself along at, seemingly, the perfect pace. Tense scenes, like those found in Know No Fear, abound and are taut, nerve wracking affairs. Likewise, narrative portions serving to enrich the background of Ultramarr or her occupants find themselves slower, more methodical, but no less compelling. The marriage of those two pacing styles creates an overall flow of the story that may be some of the best work Abnett has done in the series. I never felt that the story was dragging and, evidenced by the fact that I finished the book in just two sittings, the pacing drives the story forward at all times. It is by no means the breakneck speed of Know No Fear, but like I intimated previously, finds a really happy balance between that and the decidedly more methodical Prospero Burns.
As the plot itself goes, Abnett has somehow found a way to not only include bits and pieces from every Horus Heresy book he’s written since Legion; he’s also successfully taken characters nearly every other Horus Heresy author and seamlessly assimilated them into this novel. The Word Bearer Narek is a great example. A character introduced by Nick Kyme in Vulkan Lives, Kyme had created a very likable villain, but had only really scratched the surface of his motivations. Abnett brings him into The Unremembered Empire fold brilliantly, the transition from Vulkan Lives to here without fault. Part of that skill obviously goes to Abnett, but it’s really a testament to how well the Horus Heresy “brain trust” has mapped out these characters and their futures, as well as the trust they clearly have in each other to have these characters flow so well from one pen to the next.
Guilliman is, of course, the star of the novel and through Abnett’s narration we learn more about Roboute than perhaps any of the Emperor’s Sons save Horus. For a primarch whose legion prides itself so heavily on preparedness and practicum, it’s amazing to see Guilliman painted as perhaps the most vulnerable Primarch we’ve yet seen. In the novel, his emotional range is vast, and we see the clear kinship he holds both for his sons and his subjects, but what really strikes the narrative is the relationship he has with Tarasha Euten, his trusted chamberlain. Euten is, for all intents and purposes, a motherly figure for Roboute, one he takes counsel from above all others; her authority is unquestioned by even his tetrarchs. It’s really the first time in a Horus Heresy book that we’ve seen a female character hold any sway over a Primarch, and Abnett, unsurprisingly, handles it extremely well. Their relationship is comfortable, easy, and it makes the dialogues they have both endearing and impactful. That relationship, coupled with Abnett’s overall handling of Guilliman in this book and in Know No Fear, makes him easily one of the more likable characters in the entire saga. Even Guilliman’s interactions with the Space Wolves watch-pack just seem “right.” As Games Workshop’s flagship chapter, it’s been easy in the past to dislike the Ultramarines; now, I have trouble wondering how anyone could dislike a character like Guilliman.
And it isn’t just Guilliman that is likable in The Unremembered Empire; all the characters are just, simply put, well done. Faffnr Bludbroder and his pack feel like Space Wolves. Alexis Polux feels like an Imperial Fist. The Lion and his pride feel like the secretive Dark Angels they are. I hate using blanket statements, but the characterization of the novel is nearly perfect. All the pieces, the players, just fit into place.
The Unremembered Empire is a very, very good novel. It stands on its own less successfully than some of his previous work, but in this novel Dan Abnett has created a nexus where all Horus Heresy roads lead. Surprisingly, unlike most Horus Heresy offerings by Abnett, The Unremembered Empire actually answers more questions than it leaves the reader with. Sure, there’s the expected tease of things to come, the purposefully unfinished plot thread, but the novel doesn’t leave you wondering too much. It does, however, set the table– much like Guilliman’s table with 21 chairs–for the drama yet to unfold before us.
9/10 – An important, must read for any Horus Heresy fan.
Thanks for the review, Cincy. You have convinced me to buy that book in TPB instead of waiting for MMPB. I guess I'd better read all the books leading up to it, though...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Thanks for the review, Cincy. You have convinced me to buy that book in TPB instead of waiting for MMPB. I guess I'd better read all the books leading up to it, though...
I don't think you need to read ALL of them, but here's the ones I think you really do to 'get' the whole book:
1. Vulkan Lives - You have to. They're directly linked
2. Know No Fear - Not as imperative, but having the knowledge from KNF really makes Unremembered even better.
3. Shadows of Treachery - Both the "Crimson Fist" and "Prince of Crows" stories from the book really help give the full picture of Unremembered.
You can honestly leave out Fear to Tread. It's only barely touched upon in the novel. Angel Exterminatus isn't related at all.
If you don't want to read Fear to Tread (I liked most of it, but it was average, I'd get this from the library if you can), just read the last few pages of fear to tread as it sets up the whole why are the Blood Angels in the Ultramar system.
And Betrayer wouldn't be bad since it's after Know No Fear but before Unremembered Empire.
Is Vulkan Lives the only one of those that isn't already in MMPB? I think I have most of the others. I was "reading" Fear to Tread when the Reaper Kickstarter convinced me to read the Icewind Dale Trilogy instead, a decision I do not regret. Perhaps I will try to read both in parallel. After all, Fear to Tread might motivate me to finish converting my Mantic Elohi into something better.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is Vulkan Lives the only one of those that isn't already in MMPB? I think I have most of the others. I was "reading" Fear to Tread when the Reaper Kickstarter convinced me to read the Icewind Dale Trilogy instead, a decision I do not regret. Perhaps I will try to read both in parallel. After all, Fear to Tread might motivate me to finish converting my Mantic Elohi into something better.
I think so? I know Mark of Calth (another solid read, but not necessary) isn't in MMPB yet. Betrayer just hit. and Angel Exterminatus is out as well.
Agreed about Angel Exterminatus, BTW Hulk. I really, really enjoyed the book, and as a result, Perturabo (a dude I didn't really ever have interest in before) is probably one of my favorite primarchs, and certainly my favorite traitor primarch.
A question to those of you that have read Angel Exterminatus and/or Vulkan -- Did McNeill or Kyme ever refer to the Isstvan survivor warbands as the "Shattered Legions?" Thats what Abnett calls them, and I can't help but love that name. It makes me sincerely hope that in the FWHH books they allow for a "Shattered Legions" army list that gets some kind of special rule.
Nice. Agreed about Vulkan. I liked his characterization quite a bit. In all honesty, the only Primarch I've been disappointed with thusfar is Sanguinius. He's....not what he should be in Fear to Tread. I've also really enjoyed the plot threads following these Shattered Legions warbands. Seeing them work together, all their various skills, etc, has been really cool. I've enjoyed it a lot.
I get the impression from Angel that Perturabo, were he given the choice, would tell them all to feth off and go do his own thing. He clearly has no love for Fulgrim. He's definitely the "chip on the Shoulder" primarch.
EDIT: I didn't like a lot of things about Corax either. But he wasn't terribad. Just not that compelling.
I agree on all counts, I've got 1.25 Dresden Files books to finish before I load up Vulkan Lives and Unremembered Empire onto the ole Kindle, I'm so excited for those books and the best line in the HH so far has been,
"Is there something wrong with the floor?"
Quite enjoyed Angel Exterminatus, although there were a few head-scratching bits. Off the top of my head, we read about Perturabo's violent rages that put the guy in a dreadnought suit, but then for the rest of the story he is possibly the most balanced portrayal of a Primarch we have yet seen! Liked that we have some background/reasoning though behind him turning traitor, unlike the majority of the traitor primarchs' "GOT STABBED BY A MAGIC SWORD NOW I'M EVIL WOLOLOLOL" story arc*. Also, after the bits about the Storm Raven, where it basically comes in and kills everything before flying off into the sunset (complete with guitar solo), I was expecting a 'now available from Forgeworld for £49.99' complete with a hyperlink
Overall though enjoyed the book, definitely think Mr McNeil writes the Iron Warriors very well.
* Also, thought it was great regarding Fabius Bile being fleshed out (quite literally..), again moved a bit beyond a pantomime villain into someone who has got some serious insecurities. Yes, he makes doctor Mengele look like Doc Brown by way of comparison, but there is a reason for the way he is and what he does..
* Also, thought it was great regarding Fabius Bile being fleshed out (quite literally..), again moved a bit beyond a pantomime villain into someone who has got some serious insecurities. Yes, he makes doctor Mengele look like Doc Brown by way of comparison, but there is a reason for the way he is and what he does..
Oh for sure. Fabius continues to be one of the most fascinating characters in the series. It's really crazy to see how effed up the Emps Children are becoming. They're like a carnival freak show.
* Also, thought it was great regarding Fabius Bile being fleshed out (quite literally..), again moved a bit beyond a pantomime villain into someone who has got some serious insecurities. Yes, he makes doctor Mengele look like Doc Brown by way of comparison, but there is a reason for the way he is and what he does..
Oh for sure. Fabius continues to be one of the most fascinating characters in the series. It's really crazy to see how effed up the Emps Children are becoming. They're like a carnival freak show.
Which is part of the reason why I've not liked them at all. It just seems like they never really got the chance to deny Chaos. Being as loyal as they were it seems like it's the hardest fall (besides Horus) from grace. And while I know it's not supposed to make me feel comfortable, it actually makes me despise them, looking at all of the other Legions we've gotten a good look at, they all turned traitor for a reason or another, Fulgrim just seems to be, "Well I'm tainted now..." Idk... Fulgrim's movtivations for turning against the Emperor seem to be completely childish. He's the only one (besides Horus, who gets a pass because magic) that turned against the Emperor for little reason. I understand that the taint of his sword plus the pure charisma that Horus oozed allowed him to be swayed, but at least the other Primarchs had reason to turn against the Emperor.
* Also, thought it was great regarding Fabius Bile being fleshed out (quite literally..), again moved a bit beyond a pantomime villain into someone who has got some serious insecurities. Yes, he makes doctor Mengele look like Doc Brown by way of comparison, but there is a reason for the way he is and what he does..
Oh for sure. Fabius continues to be one of the most fascinating characters in the series. It's really crazy to see how effed up the Emps Children are becoming. They're like a carnival freak show.
Which is part of the reason why I've not liked them at all. It just seems like they never really got the chance to deny Chaos. Being as loyal as they were it seems like it's the hardest fall (besides Horus) from grace. And while I know it's not supposed to make me feel comfortable, it actually makes me despise them, looking at all of the other Legions we've gotten a good look at, they all turned traitor for a reason or another, Fulgrim just seems to be, "Well I'm tainted now..." Idk... Fulgrim's movtivations for turning against the Emperor seem to be completely childish. He's the only one (besides Horus, who gets a pass because magic) that turned against the Emperor for little reason. I understand that the taint of his sword plus the pure charisma that Horus oozed allowed him to be swayed, but at least the other Primarchs had reason to turn against the Emperor.
I think I share the same feeling, there hasn't been any real descent into how they are now. One minute they were good guys and now they are err, well, not good guys. I don't feel this is the fault of Angel Exterminatus though, I don't think enough was made of it in Fulgrim. Fulgrims fall was made cheap by the talking sword, it would have been so much more impacting if Fulgrim had started down the road on his own accord without the possessed blades coercion.
Pilau Rice wrote: I think I share the same feeling, there hasn't been any real descent into how they are now. One minute they were good guys and now they are err, well, not good guys. I don't feel this is the fault of Angel Exterminatus though, I don't think enough was made of it in Fulgrim. Fulgrims fall was made cheap by the talking sword, it would have been so much more impacting if Fulgrim had started down the road on his own accord without the possessed blades coercion.
Agreed, though I think without the talking sword you have an almost religious epiphany on the part of Fulgrim. He walks in to the temple, sees the writing mass of Laer orgy, hears the beautiful music that had never graced his ears, and he begins to seek out this influence. Perhaps his astropaths hear the 'music of Slaanesh'/the psychic imprint of him on the Laer society and they follow it, leading to the place where Slaanesh was born (eye of terror), and as they follow the trail of Slaanesh throughout the galaxy they slow grow more and more corrupted as they realize what this is, and that there is something more than the Imperium and the Emperor and what finally pushes him over the edge is the 'song' as it were leads Fulgrim to the planet where he meets with Eldrad and at that point Eldrad senses the taint of Slaanesh on him (from his own willing downfall) and the battle ensues, after the fight an emissary of Slaanesh approaches Fulgrim with an offer from the Dark Prince and lays the offer on the table, every form of sensory perfection to him and his legion if he but only devotes himself to the Dark prince. *waves hand dismissively* But that would be too similar to Lorgar's journey laid out in First Heretic. I just feel that the levels of depravity that the Emperor's Children have fallen to doesn't account for the temptation to turn. It was a slow corruption for a huge fall and it sadly just doesn't sit right with me.
You could pretty much leave the story as it is, minus the sword. Fulgrim believes it to be part of his conscious that has become unlocked. So why not have it like that, Chaos whispered to all the Primarchs after all, Slaanesh just whispered to Fulgrim louder. The music in the temple was what possible stirred this part of his conscious into overdrive, or so he believes, when the truth of it is it's a Daemon that planted itself in the Dark Part of his soul, bringing out his true nature.
How did they start to worship or even recognise Slaanesh as there doesn't seem to be much introduction other than Fulgrim saying go forth and be extremely merry, in as much a doity way as possible. There hasn't been that communication or incentive to be the way they are explained. A bit like Horus and the Heresy really
Deployed to the prison planet of Furia Penitens to quell a violent uprising, the 77th Vostroyan Firstborn regiment of the Imperial Guard find themselves in a precarious position. The rebels are in a fortified prison-hive, all but impenetrable. A disgrace suffered by their forebears haunts them. And they hate their new commissar...Can Commissar Flint bring them victory and restore their reputation, or will the 77th fail again?
Finished Unremembered Empire. My only complaint is Kurze.
Don't read if you mind spoilers!
Spoiler:
The dude has now single handledly beaten the snot out of Dorn, the Lion, Vulkan, and Gulliman. He drove off Corax in a fight too. And he managed to take on two Primarchs at the same time, one of them who is suppose to be one of the greatest actual warriors of the Primarchs. For god sakes the Lion cut his baby teeth surviving against basically chaos spawns from childhood into his teens. It kills me a litle that the authors have turned Kurze into a boogy man of the Primarch. He's crazy and the best fighter ever!
Outside of that complaint I really enjoyed it. The insights into the Lion and Gulliman were excellent. No more crap about the Lion not being loyal either! I really enjoyed the interplay between them and the teaser for who might be the first chapter master of the Crimson Fists. And it was good to see the Warsmith from Iron Within, Iron Without again. Loved that short story!
Overall a nice midpoint wrap-up for HH. I wish it had been longer and we could have seen 4 loyal primarchs together for a period. Since there won't be 4 of them together again until after the seige.
I couldn't agree more about Kurze. It confuses me a little bit, and the only way I'm able to reconcile it is in every one of these fights, there's been a lot of other gak going or, or it's been super dark, and Kurze is able to take advantage of all of that. I'm doing that, only because when Kurze decided to take Vulkan on in an "even" fight, Vulkan kicked his teeth in, badly.
Agreed about Dantioch, too. I thought that was friggin great. Iron within, Iron without is one of my fave HH shorts, and it's nice to see that he has a greater purpose to serve. I also really liked that in the "enhanced" book we get to see a picture of his mask; makes me really understand what he looks like better.
Five Years have passed since war came to Nocturne.Third Company, still feeling its losses, recovers its strength. And though a small party have ventured out in search of a certain errant fire-born, it is the Salamanders of Fifth Company who must wage war. On Heletine, the Black Legion has come in the name of Chaos and only Brother-Captain Drakgaard's warriors stand in the way of their dark glory. Victory for the Imperium hinges on the alliance between the Salamanders and The Sisters of the Ebon Chalice, warrior zealots and devout servants of the Ecclesiarchy. But there is more to this Promethean War than conquest, and only as the conflict grinds on are the true motives of the enemy revealed...
Spoiler:
The Thousand Sons and the Space Wolves - two Legions whose destinies were irrevocably entwined at Prospero, and yet who now dance separately to fate's tune. As sanctioned executioners, the Wolves of Fenris were meant to root out treachery at the heart of the Legions...but would they be capable of carrying out a death sentence upon one of the Emperor's own sons? Meanwhile, Ahzek Ahriman and Magnus the Red cast their sight over the galaxy, seeking any clue as to what the future might hold.
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I finished Master of Dragons, by Chris Wraight yesterday evening. Its book 2 in the War of Vengeance (or War of the Beard, if you are a High Elf ) trilogy.
Nothing really shocking in terms of lore, as the main story has been WHFB canon forever. Spoilers just in case:
Spoiler:
It focuses heavily on the High Elf side, mainly the eponymous title character, Imladrik. Liandra, his almost girlfriend and a powerful dragon riding mage in her own right also plays a big part. A handful of minor High Elves flesh out the High Elf cast. A few Dark Elf characters from previous novels, also continue to wreak havoc , furthering the war. Morgrim, the leader of the main Dwarf army and costar of the previous War of Vengeance novel, has a few parts, mainly to show the differences between him and Imladrik.
From the very onset, you get a sense of the overpowering arrogance of the High Elves that led to the war. Only a few High Elves take the Dwarf threat serious, thinking them humbled and spent after the death and mutilation of Snorri Halfhand, the Dwarf High Kings son, at the hands of the thoroughly unlikeable Caledor II. The novel expertly portrays the Dwarves as an elemental force, relentless and near unstoppable. They don't go through a forest using trails, or around it, they tear it down. For the greater part of the novel, they are portrayed almost like a volcano , ready to burst. When it does burst, they are absolutely ruthless, sparing nothing in their conquests.
The interactions between the Dragons and their riders is pretty neat, reminded me in a way of 40k Titan pilots, which was cool. The differences in how Dark Elves treat their dragons is also an interesting contrast. One is kinship, the other domination.
The duel at the end was too short for my tastes, but tragic still, as both former friends did the most to prevent the war. In the end, the guy named Elfdoom lives up to his name.
Proto-Wood Elves also make a cameo. And the scene is set for a certain Nehekarran priest to get a few Dark Elf mages into his ambitious clutches. Surely nothing bad will come from that....
Looks like the last chapter of "Scars" hits next week . Although the serialization of it is kind of annoying, its given me a Horus Heresy fix every week, which is nice.
I've found it pretty entertaining and they've saved the best for last :
Spoiler:
Mortarion vs The Khan battle it out in the ashes of Prospero, while the divided White Scars battle for the soul of the Legion in orbit above.
Edit2:
I also liked the revelation in this newest chapter that :
Spoiler:
The Primarchs being scattered across the galaxy was planned, its just that the Chaos Gods muffed the landing. Like Fulgrim was supposed to land on Chogoris (The White Scars planet)etc.
NELS1031 wrote: Looks like the last chapter of "Scars" hits next week . Although the serialization of it is kind of annoying, its given me a Horus Heresy fix every week, which is nice.
I've found it pretty entertaining and they've saved the best for last :
Spoiler:
Mortarion vs The Khan battle it out in the ashes of Prospero, while the divided White Scars battle for the soul of the Legion in orbit above.
Edit2:
I also liked the revelation in this newest chapter that :
Spoiler:
The Primarchs being scattered across the galaxy was planned, its just that the Chaos Gods muffed the landing. Like Fulgrim was supposed to land on Chogoris (The White Scars planet)etc.
Spoiler:
Mortarion and the Khan above Prospero hmm Interesting.
Spoiler:
I guess we've always kind of suspected this, I mean, Angron landed on a Gladiatorial world, Mortarion, a world of death, Magnus, a world of Sorcerers and Scholars and Fulgrim did always seem to be a bit of an odd one out. Good to see that we have got another explanation.
Look forward to getting the complete edition of this.
Cheers for the Vid Red, that does look awesome and something I have been waiting for.
The trailer for the brand new Horus Heresy: Visions of Heresy collector's edition art book. Release date: 1st November 2013, 9 AM (BST)
Looks lovely indeed.
.. Think I'll wait for the regular version however.
So it's a re-issue of the original books, complete with all the rubbish artwork of the originals, including those awful Blanche scribbles, plus a few book covers. The Collected Visions has to be one of the most disappointing books I have ever bought.
I really like the current "Collected Visions" book (currently sitting beside me) it's great to flick through. I'll be waiting to see a price point for this, as it's something I could get behind if the price is right.
Some of the art in Collected Visions is a bit... dodgy... I hope there's a good percent of new art in this book.
@red - Do you think they'll be a regular edition of this book in a similar format to the original?
Not sure there is much reason to get that though if you have the original, other than for completists who want everything HH related?
Farmersboy, think the importance of collected visions cant be understated. If there hadnt been the massive fan reaction to it, and then an element of the fans running with it, we might not have even had an HH book series today.
Think its also got a more naive touch to it, which is rather charming, before the concept turned into the money making juggernaut it is today.
That is a good point, I'm definitely not into the HH that heavily, but I do like the art. The current collected visions book doesn't read that well, and the cards at the back are redundant. If it's sleeker in presentation and has enough new art in it I think it'll be worth it.. They'll probably have it in Waterstones, I'll have a flick through it before I decide to buy.
I don't think there will be a good percent of new art in this book... it will be mainly recycled material with the addition of the book covers and internal art from the CE hardbacks. Old pics will be replaced by newer pics (like the old Kharn pic will be replaced by the new Kharn artwork from the CE Betrayer novel).
It would be nice to own this, but I own the collected visions and all the hardbacks, so I think I'll save the $250 and put that towards more hardbacks as they are released. Well, and I'm sure this version will be reworked and re-released in another 5 years with all the new HH stuff being released.
Lately we’ve had a lot of emails and questions at events about the changing policy on submitting your writing to Black Library, and in particular what format submissions will take in future. We’ve talked a little bit about this, but in advance of the ‘Writing for BL’ panel at the upcoming Weekender event, here are a few updates.
Firstly, the editors have now finished going through the massive heap of submissions from back in 2012. With more than three thousand individual stories, it was always going to take a while... but we have now contacted everyone whose work we are interested in. If you didn’t hear back from us this time, don’t let that discourage you – take it as an opportunity to raise your game and make your next submission even better and more exciting!
And when, you may ask, will be the next chance to submit your work to BL?
For the last three years, we have had Laurie Goulding acting as a dedicated Submissions Editor. Going forwards, any of our commissioning editors might call a short story submissions window at any time, and this will usually be themed around a specific topic, army or race. We might, for example, ask for stories about Second Founding Space Marine Chapters, or stories specifically focused on a particular war or campaign, or maybe even dealing with a particularly renowned hero of the Warhammer world. The dates for each window will be announced in advance, and submissions taken only during that time. As before, we will only be able to reply to successful applicants.
Alternatively, at many of our events we will be taking the opportunity to invite fans to submit their writing to us – in fact, those lucky Gold Ticket holders at the Weekender in November will be attending a bespoke, all-day writing academy, run by the BL editors and featuring some of our best known authors as special guests. Future event-specific submissions will also be announced well in advance, alongside our usual writing advice panels.
Why the sweeping changes to the process, then? Laurie had this to say:
‘Rather than limiting your options or restricting creativity, we’ve found that by far the most productive way to work with potential new authors is to work within a vague brief. We want to see awesome and exciting stories set in the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 universes, which support the rich gaming background (and don’t throw too many jarring curve-balls!)
‘Also, in all the years that BL has been accepting submissions, we have only accepted ONE novel submission (‘Knight of the Blazing Sun’ by Josh Reynolds, if you’re interested!) for publication, and that was by an already-published author with years of experience. In contrast, we have found dozens of authors through short story work – David Annandale, Chris Wraight, David Guymer and Joe Parrino, to name but a few. It is simply not fair for BL to ask you, the writer, to work for months on a manuscript which might never even see the light of day, when we could instead be collaborating with you on a short story which can be revised or amended far more quickly and easily.’
So while you wait for the first new submissions window to be announced, what advice can the editorial team offer?
‘Don’t just sit there... get writing! There’s no substitute for practice, so grab the latest Codex or army book, open a new Word document on your computer, and let those ideas flow. There are plenty of online forums where writers can read and critique one another’s work, or your local library might have details of writers’ groups in your area. Alternatively, get yourself along to the BL Weekender and have a go at ‘Pitch Factor’ on the Saturday evening – this is the best chance to get your ideas heard by our editors and authors, and best of all you will actually receive useful feedback right then and there. And who knows, we might like your idea enough to commission it on the spot...’
THE STORY
Always first among the superhuman primarchs, the newly dubbed Warmaster Horus turned his back upon the Emperor and embraced the dark powers of Chaos. With fully half the military might of the fledgling Imperium at his command, he set his sights upon the throne of Holy Terra and waged a war which would divide the galaxy forever...
Visions of war, visions of darkness, of treachery and death - all of this and more is contained within this heretical volume. Iconic depictions of the Space Marine Legions and the heroes that commanded them are presented alongside artwork from renowned artist Neil Roberts, as well as brand new historical notes on the Warhammer 40,000 universe by Alan Merrett. Witness the end of an era and the beginning of something far darker, as the Heresy continues to unfold.
ABOUT THIS EDITION
This collector's edition comes split into two volumes: The Age of The Emperor - Istvaan V and The Silent War - Terra. These leather-bound hardbacks are presented in a leather slip case featuring Neil Roberts new interpretation of the Emperor's fateful battle with Horus on the Vengeful Spirit.
Strictly limited to 1,250 copies worldwide, this tome is something no collector will want to be without.
Visions of Heresy will go on sale at 9AM (GMT) on 1 November and is only available while stocks last.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and that version has sold out.
BL explained to me on Facebook that some of the card illustrations had been replaced by more modern stuff, such as the HH book covers, but when pressed for a rough percentage of new over old they went quiet, so I can only assume that the vast majority of these overpriced reprints is still the frankly shonky and amateur artwork they contained the first time round, with particular reference to the scribbles of one J. Blanche...
For those of you that missed out on getting a copy of the collector’s edition of Visions of Heresy this morning, we’ve got some good news. Due to some technical issues, we have some stock remaining of this limited edition title.
In order to give everyone as fair a chance as possible to get one of these highly sought after pieces, the remaining stock will go on sale at 11am (GMT) on Monday the 4th of November from blacklibrary.com.
There will still be copies available at the Black Library Weekender tomorrow for anyone in the area (and there are a few event tickets left on the door).
We apologise for any inconvenience caused this morning and hope that this will allow you to plan your time and get everyone a copy that wants one.
One has to wonder if the "technical difficulty" is that they have reached the point where the price has resulted in the number available has exceeded the number of people who are willing to pay it?
Just read the first of the Legion of the Damned short stories to be released on Itunes.
Brother Sergeant Centurius makes an appearance, old timers may remember him as the limited edition LotD special character. The Legion actually interacts with fellow space marines in this story and we see how they recruit. Still plenty of mystery and menace surround them though. Pretty cool.
I'll be picking all of them as they are released. Love me some Legion of the Damned.
Edit: I liked it so much I'm just gonna download the whole collection of 6 from BL.
NELS1031 wrote: Just read the first of the Legion of the Damned short stories to be released on Itunes.
Brother Sergeant Centurius makes an appearance, old timers may remember him as the limited edition LotD special character. The Legion actually interacts with fellow space marines in this story and we see how they recruit. Still plenty of mystery and menace surround them though. Pretty cool.
I'll be picking all of them as they are released. Love me some Legion of the Damned.
Edit: I liked it so much I'm just gonna download the whole collection of 6 from BL.
i couldn't find the Sgt. Centurius story on iBooks...
what is the title???
thanks, bud...
those aren't up on iBooks yet...
they also don't have Gotrek &Felix: City of the Damned up:(...
seriously slacking on the iBooks...
they did put up the new novel Pandorax, though...
not sure if i want it bad enough to pay $11.99, but a Catachan novel sounds good, with the Dark Angels coming to save the day...
NELS1031 wrote: Just read the first of the Legion of the Damned short stories to be released on Itunes.
Brother Sergeant Centurius makes an appearance, old timers may remember him as the limited edition LotD special character. The Legion actually interacts with fellow space marines in this story and we see how they recruit. Still plenty of mystery and menace surround them though. Pretty cool.
I'll be picking all of them as they are released. Love me some Legion of the Damned.
Edit: I liked it so much I'm just gonna download the whole collection of 6 from BL.
i couldn't find the Sgt. Centurius story on iBooks...
what is the title???
cheers
jah
"Animus Malorum" is the only one on Itunes at present.
.
. I've been listening to Betrayer myself while at the gym and I've been quite surprised too by how good they are, the only downside is that I'm not a big fan of the voices they give some of the characters.
They did travel through massive parts of the galaxy tracking down the old religion. Lorgar and Erebus also seem to be the most informed about Chaos and its plan, everyone else though... "ooh this looks fun." But then again, even out of the 'cult troops' (noise, berserkers, plague, 1k sons), only 1 of them willingly took to the Chaos god they were serving without issue (Fulgrim), though he didn't quite know what he was serving until that was revealed to him.
