I would quite happily pay the extra cost of a Trade format paperback in a MMPB format - the one thing I hate the most is the actual physical size of the damn things. There is no good reason why they should be any bigger, ands it now means that when I make my regular pilgrimage to Guys hospital I can't just slip a book in my pocket, beacuse they now don't fit! When I lay in the bath enjoying a long soak and something alcofrolic it's now quite awkward to hold the book open in one hand - again, because it's too big.
farmersboy wrote: I would quite happily pay the extra cost of a Trade format paperback in a MMPB format - the one thing I hate the most is the actual physical size of the damn things. There is no good reason why they should be any bigger, ands it now means that when I make my regular pilgrimage to Guys hospital I can't just slip a book in my pocket, beacuse they now don't fit! When I lay in the bath enjoying a long soak and something alcofrolic it's now quite awkward to hold the book open in one hand - again, because it's too big.
There are obvious solutions to this that I won't belabour because I know hearing it from me is becoming tiresome for many.
I don't personally think the HH has become stale at all. Angel Exterminatus was great. Betrayer was fantastic. And I enjoyed most of Mark of Calth. Hell, even the new limited novella is pretty good so far.
Seconded that the first Mecharius book is a solid read.
cincydooley wrote: So presumably you'd buy the HH books digitally at $8-10 then?
Yeah, I guess if the digital copies were half as much as the print ones I would indeed buy digital. Not sure though -- for example, I only buy print RPG books.
farmersboy wrote: I would quite happily pay the extra cost of a Trade format paperback in a MMPB format - the one thing I hate the most is the actual physical size of the damn things. There is no good reason why they should be any bigger, ands it now means that when I make my regular pilgrimage to Guys hospital I can't just slip a book in my pocket, beacuse they now don't fit! When I lay in the bath enjoying a long soak and something alcofrolic it's now quite awkward to hold the book open in one hand - again, because it's too big.
There are obvious solutions to this that I won't belabour because I know hearing it from me is becoming tiresome for many.
I don't personally think the HH has become stale at all. Angel Exterminatus was great. Betrayer was fantastic. And I enjoyed most of Mark of Calth. Hell, even the new limited novella is pretty good so far.
Seconded that the first Mecharius book is a solid read.
I'm of quite the opposite opinion: I found Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer very disappointing. For me, the last HH book I could call 'great' was Prospero Burns, and that was a long time ago within the series.
Similarly, like farmersboy, I'd rather have the MMPB at TPB prices.
cincydooley wrote: So presumably you'd buy the HH books digitally at $8-10 then?
Yeah, I guess if the digital copies were half as much as the print ones I would indeed buy digital. Not sure though -- for example, I only buy print RPG books.
i hear you on this one, man...
i cannot bring myself to buy any kind of sourcebook digitally...
i want the large-format hardback in my hands, with big beautiful artwork...
coffeetable style books always feel like more of an investment than novels, though...
they have a certain gravitas that a novel lacks, to me...
i don't feel like i've lost much of the tactile experience with the switch to digital novels, but there is no way i would give up my full size BL artbooks...
having a tome in your hands beats an iPad, for sure...
jah-joshua wrote: coffeetable style books always feel like more of an investment than novels, though...
Exactly my thoughts. Cheap digital editions also encourage me to try books I would not otherwise -- for example, Star Trek novels that I would probably never buy in any print format. I think of the digital format as more "disposable" because they don't take up space. Just goes to show this digital market is challenging the way we unconsciously look at books.
I'm probably getting confused because Prospero Burns was delayed. Know No Fear was certainly after that, however, and I enjoyed the first half of it (yep, still haven't finished it).
One thing about waiting on the MMPBs to come out is that I've had time to go back and read most of the HH books that I liked. I picked up a ton of things on second reading that I missed the first time or had forgotten. Like Mortarion in action (was it Flight of the Einstein or the Galaxie Burns). Forgot again already.
kronk wrote: One thing about waiting on the MMPBs to come out is that I've had time to go back and read most of the HH books that I liked. I picked up a ton of things on second reading that I missed the first time or had forgotten. Like Mortarion in action (was it Flight of the Einstein or the Galaxie Burns). Forgot again already.
I don't remember Mortarion fighting in Galaxy in Flames, and I've never read Flight of the Eisenstein.... so probably that one.
kronk wrote: One thing about waiting on the MMPBs to come out is that I've had time to go back and read most of the HH books that I liked. I picked up a ton of things on second reading that I missed the first time or had forgotten. Like Mortarion in action (was it Flight of the Einstein or the Galaxie Burns). Forgot again already.
I don't remember Mortarion fighting in Galaxy in Flames, and I've never read Flight of the Eisenstein.... so probably that one.
IIRC he fights in Fulgrim (Istvaan V; loved the imagery of him scything down any who came near) and Eisenstein (In the bottle thing).
Score another one in the HELL YEAH column for Mr. Roberts & Chambers here then !
And a pic from Index astartes:fortress monasteries, from the BL digital line.
Yep, according to Mr. Bligh, the HG recruit mostly from Mancora so it stands to reason that if that's their fortress monastery then it's on Mancora. I do wonder what the deal is with the ship's prow. Wish GW would release this stuff in print ...
Malika2 wrote: Mancora? Seriously? That beach resort in Peru? :O
I don't see any of those fine Peruvian senoritas .
I know that there is that new Njal book coming out by Chris Wraight, can anyone give me the rundown on some of his other Space Wolf works? I'm thinking that I might try and pick some of them up.
Wait he wrote Battle for the Fang right? Hrm... I think I know what I'm getting Friday!
Here's my review of Battle of the Fang from a while back:
Spoiler:
It's no secret that Prospero Burns is probably my favorite Warhammer 40k book to date, that I have an unabashed man-crush on Dan Abnett, and that the Space Wolves are my army of choice on the tabletop. With all of that in mind, one could probably expect that I'd enjoy Battle of the Fang, the newest Space Marines Battles novel by Chris Wraight, particularly considering his Iron Company has been my favorite Empire Army novel. They'd be right of course, as I found Battle of the Fang to be the strongest entry in the Space Marine Battles series to date, both for its strong prose and characterization, but also due to the timeline in which the story takes place.
So far, the Space Marine Battles books span the entirety of the post-Heresy timeframe, with no set time period in which they fall. Consequently, Battle of the Fang enters as the earliest of the post-Heresy novels, taking place a mere 1000 years after the fall of Horus and, more specifically to this instance, the Razing of Prospero. Baited by a feint from Thousand Sons Primarch Magnus the Red, Great Wolf Harek Ironhelm is led away from Fenris, leaving the Fang, home of the Space Wolves, attended by a single great company. What ensues is the siege of Fenris by a fleet of Thousand Sons, an attempt to revenge their own home world and inflict the same amount of pain on the wolves of Russ.
Wraight's narrative is clean and concise, but what is most impressive is the manner in which he retains much of the history Abnett created in Prospero Burns. The history and culture of the Vlka Fenryka is ably retained; in fact, Wraight's Battle of the Fang reads much like an extension of Abnett's previous work, down to the customs and vocabulary used by characters, both human and Astartes alike. It is this sense of depth that elevates Battle of the Fang above some of the previous entries in the Space Marines Battles series: Wraight took a brilliant template established by Dan Abnett, added his own nuances, and further developed that history.
The history of the Space Wolves is on full display in Battle of the Fang, highlighted by a nominal role by Bjorn, the Fell-Handed. As the last remnants of the XIII legion that walked with Leman Russ, Bjorn offers a great perspective when contrasted with the newer Wolves. There is a particularly poignant scene in which Bjorn laments his relegation to a Revered Fallen which gives some nice insight both on his relationship with Russ and his entombment in the Dreadnought armour.
Finally, Wraight abstractly addresses the much debated "There are no wolves on Fenris," statement Graham McNeill introduced in A Thousand Sons. While his answers are vague, they are no less satisfying; it continues to become less ambiguous what exactly the wolves of Fenris are. Though I doubt that the Black Library will ever give us a definitive answer to that question, it's an ambiguity I'm okay with as a reader.
Battle of the Fang is a great addition to the Black Library. It stands as the best example of what the Space Marine Battles series can be, and Chris Wraight does a superb job creating an extension to Dan Abnett's brilliant Prospero Burns, while allowing Battles of the Fang to stand proudly on its own merit.
Highly Recommended.
I really loved it, and I think his writing as a whole is really quite fantastic.
Are you looking for info about his Wolf stuff, or his other work as well?
I'm actually a really big fan of Wraights writing in general. Like I said in that review, his Iron Company book in the fantasy setting was really well done.
Addtionally, he wrote the Sigillite Audiodrama, which is fantastic, and the Kraken and Flesh Short stories which were also really fantastic. Kraken, if you like the Space Wolves, is, IMO, a must read.
I sincerely hope both he and John French get the opportunity to write full HH novels, as I think both are well deserving.
Well, I've dusted off my Space Puppies, and I tend to like to read fluff about the armies I play, so I was looking at Iron Warriors stuff for awhile, lots of UM stuff (though never the omnibuses ), and if Wraight is right for Space Wolves, then I'll read that too. I've heard damn good things about Battle of the Fang, and Prospero Burns was probably one of my favorite HH books simply because I loved the whole cultural aspect we got to see with the wolves through Hawser, not to mention the whole
Spoiler:
mispronouncing Bjorn's name for the entire book only to have it be his saving grace .
Besides Njal, Battle of the Fang and Blood of Asaheim, BL has several short stories he's penned about the wolves, I can pick up all the ebook versions of Kraken (a SM Battles Short Story from the Sons of Russ compliation), Wulfven (a short story from something), and Blood of Asaheim for less than 20 bucks. Which if he's as good as people are saying, might be worth the price of admission.
I'm actually a really big fan of Wraights writing in general. Like I said in that review, his Iron Company book in the fantasy setting was really well done.
Addtionally, he wrote the Sigillite Audiodrama, which is fantastic, and the Kraken and Flesh Short stories which were also really fantastic. Kraken, if you like the Space Wolves, is, IMO, a must read.
I'm a Space Wolves fan, but the product description for Kraken doesn't make it sound particularly special tbh...
His Iron hands SM Battles book is supposed to be good too, if you haven't read it.
I sincerely hope both he and John French get the opportunity to write full HH novels, as I think both are well deserving.
Manchu wrote: Yep, according to Mr. Bligh, the HG recruit mostly from Mancora so it stands to reason that if that's their fortress monastery then it's on Mancora. I do wonder what the deal is with the ship's prow. Wish GW would release this stuff in print ...
I remember reading in another novel (maybe the Crimson Fist one where their fortress monestary is destroyed?) that it's possible to create a fortress monestary by simply landing a capital ship like a battlecruiser/barge/battleship and then building around it. If there is a ship's prow really sticking out there, I'd suspect something like that was added to the monestary at some point.
I remember reading in another novel (maybe the Crimson Fist one where their fortress monestary is destroyed?) that it's possible to create a fortress monestary by simply landing a capital ship like a battlecruiser/barge/battleship and then building around it.
Finally finished Fist of Demetrius, it was good, but felt like it was more of a filler novel than a proper sequel with actual meat to it. It had bits and bobs here and there that hinted at bigger things, but I guess it's all down to the third novel now.
Yeah, I felt the same. Although I thought it was much stronger than the 2nd of the elf books, that one really did feel like it was treading water/going nowhere.
That said I do enjoy Mr. King's writing style, his prose does flow very well and he does come up with some great ideas/scenes.
Reading Ahriman ( and the Marvel Infinity/Warlock stuff ) at the moment, which is enjoyable enough but again feels a little bit ...... directionless .. or adrift at the moment.
One could argue that this nicely parallels the feelings/situation of the character, but it also smacks slightly of either padding or in need of a bit more focus. But Mr. French is good at getting inside the head/hearts of the characters and certainly comes up with some interesting scenarios.
I haven't read fantasy in a long, long time, but I'll keep it in mind as I find Bill's writing style most enjoyable.
Maybe I should just give in and try to get started with Deliverance Lost and try and work my way through the HH novels all the way to the Primarchs. Or re-read Ravenor in preparation for whenever the second Bequin novel hits.
Hey Red, you got the ear of some authors right?
Could you ask Sandy if he's ever going to write another Dark Heresy novel? Ooh and ask mister Hoare if there will ever be another Rogue Trader novel.
No dark heresy novel, issues to do with licensing or somesuch, apparently. If you ever get the chance to buttonhole the ever affable author he'll explain what he was going to do.
Slim chance it might get some resolution in some form or other at some vague point in the future, but I don't think it'll happen.
Mr. Hoare works for.in FW now .. so .... one suspects we won;t see any full length novels from him for a while. The RT story though is resolved in his White Scars novel though if you didn't know. Which is significantly stronger than his other scars books.
reds8n wrote: No dark heresy novel, issues to do with licensing or somesuch, apparently. If you ever get the chance to buttonhole the ever affable author he'll explain what he was going to do.
Slim chance it might get some resolution in some form or other at some vague point in the future, but I don't think it'll happen.
Now that just sucks out loud!
That series was a lot of fun, and I was looking forward to seeing where it went, and where it would end!
Feel free to spoil it for us here, if you know, because apparently we'll never know otherwise!
reds8n wrote: No dark heresy novel, issues to do with licensing or somesuch, apparently. If you ever get the chance to buttonhole the ever affable author he'll explain what he was going to do.
Slim chance it might get some resolution in some form or other at some vague point in the future, but I don't think it'll happen.
Mr. Hoare works for.in FW now .. so .... one suspects we won;t see any full length novels from him for a while. The RT story though is resolved in his White Scars novel though if you didn't know. Which is significantly stronger than his other scars books.
Wait wait, the Rogue Trader series he was writing (which I LOVED) is resolved in the Savage Scars book?
KamikazeCanuck - Not just for this thread, but generally as a rule for forums; skim reading is an essential. If you're trying to look for info in a news thread, read the first few words of a post and you can usually pick up whether its a comment on the business/company or genuine news about something. Something that is essential for most of the KS threads around here
Dead Blue Clown wrote: . I'm writing 40K now (and, I hope, forever) but it's not all I'm ever going to write.
Do you have any plans for any non-BL/warhammer stuff? Can pretty much guarantee that I would order it regardless of topic (unless it's something to do with fifty shades of grey, or country & western music)
I'm happy that the Long Drought is just about over and I'll be getting back into the HH MMPB series now!
Got my (gold foil!) MMPB Angel Exterminatus last week. I have to say, nobody quite captures the dark, sinister side to Slaaneshi worship like McNeil, he is very good at skipping over the tittering about boobies and cutting to the chase of what a constant pursuit of extreme sensation would very rapidly devolve into.
I'm happy that the Long Drought is just about over and I'll be getting back into the HH MMPB series now!
Got my (gold foil!) MMPB Angel Exterminatus last week. I have to say, nobody quite captures the dark, sinister side to Slaaneshi worship like McNeil, he is very good at skipping over the tittering about boobies and cutting to the chase of what a constant pursuit of extreme sensation would very rapidly devolve into.
Pretty effed up right?
This book made me nearly start an Iron Warriors army with the spare models I have lying around. Hope you enjoy.
I'm happy that the Long Drought is just about over and I'll be getting back into the HH MMPB series now!
Got my (gold foil!) MMPB Angel Exterminatus last week. I have to say, nobody quite captures the dark, sinister side to Slaaneshi worship like McNeil, he is very good at skipping over the tittering about boobies and cutting to the chase of what a constant pursuit of extreme sensation would very rapidly devolve into.
Pretty effed up right?
This book made me nearly start an Iron Warriors army with the spare models I have lying around. Hope you enjoy.
>_>
I've got several squads of Iron Warriors I'm not using (enough for an army) if you're interested... i.e. I have over 4k points...
for those still reading new releases, i just noticed that Gotrek and Felix: Lost Tales has been up on iBooks since the 12th...
$7.99...
there is also a new HH eshort called Distant Echoes of Old Night...
Death Guard vs. Imp. Fists, and the DG unleash the new unit from the FW book, the Destroyers...
for $2.99, i'll give it a read, and see how the Destroyers are in action...
should be fun...
THE STORY
In the wake of the Dropsite Massacre at Isstvan V, the survivors of the Salamanders Legion searched long and hard for their fallen primarch, but to no avail. Little did they know that while Vulkan might have wished himself dead, he lives still... languishing in a hidden cell for the entertainment of a cruel gaoler, his brother Konrad Curze. Enduring a series of hellish tortures designed to break his body and spirit, Vulkan witnesses the depths of the Night Haunter's depravity, but also discovers something else - a revelation that could change the course of the entire war.
ABOUT THIS EDITION
Contains new and exclusive illustrations by Karl Richardson, as well as an afterword by the editor.
2 weeks is standard GW "HEY LOOK WHAT YOU CAN BUY SOON" window with their normal releases, and this is something that Black Library has adopted. Which kind of sucks because I'd like to know wtf is coming out a month or so prior so I can plan accordingly. BUT we've had that conversation already.
Is there someplace I can go to see the HH series in order, including the audio and novellas?
I keep feeling like I am missing something, but the BL site is not much help because there is no good way to sort that I have found. The sort by release date got all screwed up with the re-releases.
BrookM wrote: My FLGS got a paperback copy of Angel Exterminatus today, yay?
I got mine from Amazon the week before last,
As an aside, and not really intended to be on either side of the argument, I was in a Waterstones for the first time in quite a while the other day, and it struck me that 95%ish of the books were in the trade paperback size BL now uses. Again, not saying this is right or wrong, or proves anything either way.
yeah, not that it really matters, but the original run of GW novels were trade paperback size, too...
the Dark Future novels were great, and the Fantasy stuff wasn't bad, either...
in the news, iBooks has Vulkan Lives up for pre-order, with a release date of Aug. 2nd...
$15.99 enhanced ebook edition, so about half the price of the hardback...
i'm looking forward to it!!!
vitki wrote: Is there someplace I can go to see the HH series in order, including the audio and novellas?
I keep feeling like I am missing something, but the BL site is not much help because there is no good way to sort that I have found. The sort by release date got all screwed up with the re-releases.
In a way, but it doesn't make BL doing the same as everyone else right or wrong! I was just surprised at the extent of it.. I pick up most things off Amazon, so I guess I hadn't been exposed to the scale of it.
Mission: Purge is The Black Library's first real foray into the Deathwatch for quite a few years. To be honest, I had a sneaking suspicion that GW had nearly forgotten about them.
Deathwatch features a typical mission for a squad of alien hunters lead by Inquisitors own Brother-Captain Artemis.
The Plot A squad of Deathwatch are sent to inspect a Rogue Traders starship that recently visited a world which was overrun by Genestealers.
The Good The last 3-8 minutes are pretty darn good fun. Completely cliche (I'll get to that later) but still very fun indeed.
Genestealer Cults are back! They're actually portrayed rather well, with more than a 'lulz, psychic powers.'
There's actually a pretty good joke from the Space Wolf character in the story, that acts as a great 'oldbie' appeal factor.
The Bad - and there's a lot of it. By virtue of that single line description of the plot, you have probably worked out the entire course of the 70 minute story. The whole thing is a completely stock story, done to death in everything from Alien Resurrection to Stargate SG1 to Starship Troopers.
The 4 main Space Marine characters act as a bunch of squabbling 5 year olds. I know this was an attempt to portray the difficulty of several chapters working together. It doesn't work. If one started calling the others a bunch of 'meanie poopy heads' I genuinely would not have blinked.
Artemis showed absolutely no traits of a 'captain' whatsoever. He was as bad as the rest when it came to squabbling 5 year olds, the only real 'authority' moments ended up coming from other characters.
The Astartes in the story were a bunch of WIMPS, they seemed to constantly say, "well, that's this mission failed (again), lets pack up and go home."
They didn't act like marines at all. They were bantering like untrained guardsmen or space cowboys. I'm fine with a Space Wolf making jokes and other marines acting like a straight man (like in the case of the 'good' joke), but marines just would go into a discussion like. "I could kiss you for that!" "Well, fine, but not on the lips!" The rest of the dialogue (with that 1 exception) is just as terrible.
I can't decide whether it is a case of plot holes or simply a massive Idiot ball large enough to blot out the sun. I think I'll settle for calling it an Idiot Plot. And yes, those are TVtropes links, so be warned.
Spoiler:
The traders ship was described as a cargo hold with engines and barely any weapons... The marines arrived in a Gunship. It never occurs to anyone to use it
The sound effects, something which has been particularly good in recent Black Library audiodramas like The Sigillite and Bloodquest were quite meh. There was an attempt to integrate them into the story which didn't work too great. Instead saying "and they left the cargo hold" there was a sound of a door opening and it just doesn't seem to be timed well....
All in all, the story is 100 percent, completely by the numbers without even the barest effort of originality and overall, a very lazy effort from The Black Library. The enjoyable last few minutes of the story (which still had no real effort) don't make up for the rest of it.
Give this one a miss, folks and do yourselves a favour.
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but all the old out of print Collector edition books (The novellas and other old fluff books) have been removed from the site.
Now i know that since they are out of print and cannot be ordered that they should be removed, I've noticed that the drop down menu for collector edtions has gone as well. Bit of a pity that the old school fluff books may not return but instead the only 'collector' edtions that they release may only be these very expensive novellas :(
All the old original editions can be bought second-hand on Amazon - that's how I've been filling in the gaps in my collection. They happen to be the right size as well...
BrookM wrote: My FLGS got a paperback copy of Angel Exterminatus today, yay?
I got mine from Amazon the week before last,
As an aside, and not really intended to be on either side of the argument, I was in a Waterstones for the first time in quite a while the other day, and it struck me that 95%ish of the books were in the trade paperback size BL now uses. Again, not saying this is right or wrong, or proves anything either way.
It really depends on which part of the bookstore you are in. Mystery/Thriller, Science Fiction, True Crime and Romance are still 90% mmpbs, at least in my local Barnes and Nobles, airport stores, grocery stores and magazine racks. "Literary" Fiction is now almost entirely TPBs, as is Young Adult fiction (all genres) and Independent Reader fiction (all genres), but the YR and IR books are usually priced like mmpgs despite their size.
Also, I understand that TPBs are much more common outside the US. Here, genre books for mass consumption still need to be portable and cheaper than a movie ticket. Their target markets tend to skew older, too, so ebooks haven't quite made the paper books irrelevant yet.
Also, I understand that TPBs are much more common outside the US. Here, genre books for mass consumption still need to be portable and cheaper than a movie ticket. Their target markets tend to skew older, too, so ebooks haven't quite made the paper books irrelevant yet.
Getting pretty close though.
MMRP sales are down something like 24% in the past year or so.
Yes, but is that because of ebooks or partly because the supply of MMPBs is down? I doubt that it is entirely due to the rise of ebooks. I think a lot of it has to do with precision selling (Amazon needs to buy fewer MMPBs because they don't need to stock a hundred stores' shelves, Barnes and Noble is narrowing its selection, etc.) and the formats that appear in Costco/Target/Walmart taking sales away from traditional MMPBs. Besides, the publishing industry has been moving towards more expensive TPBs for years and years, and not because they are "the only way to save publishing." They do it for the same reason movies come out in IMAX or 3D, or for the same reason GW raises their prices: because they can get away with it.
I guess I'm saying that MMPBs aren't dying out so much as being murdered slowly.
i just downloaded Vulkan Lives from iBooks...
looks like it will be ab interesting story...
Dramatis Personae include Vulkan, Corax, Curze, Erebus, Grammatica, and Ferrus...
Sallies, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Night Lords, and Word Bearers...
a little something for everyone...
there are five drawings in the book from Karl Richardson...
i have been a fan of his style since the Warhammer Monhly comics first turned me on to his work, back in '97...
his piece with the MKIV armour in this book is the standout...
seems we will also be getting a look at the Recon Squad in action...
the Forge World squad looks pretty cool...
if they are as cool in the novel, i'm sure i'll end up painting that set green...
Vulkan Lives was definitely an interesting read. It's solidified Curze as my favourite character in the Warhammer universe, he's awesomely broken...Although I don't really know how I feel about yet another one of these novels dropping vague hints about the missing legions.
Spoiler:
Although, having read through, not too sure how I feel about Vulkan as another perpetual. It's an interesting twist, but I didn't really like the perpetual concept to begin with, although I will say the bit where it's revealed, that maudlin dining scene, was very well done in my eyes. The way Curze flickered between personas throughout the book, to finally end as more or less suicidal, was also highly enjoyable.
With regards to the missing legions, was Vulkan implying that the primarchs are possibly still alive? He seemed to question whether Ferrus was the first dead primarch. Is it just going to be another one of the whole do what you will with it bits, or do we reckon it might get filled out at some point?
All in all, I'd advise anyone who has some interest in reading the book to go ahead and do so. My only real complaint was that I love Curze, so therefore would've loved to see more of him, as opposed to the shifting perspectives we did get - but that's more of a personal preference than anything, really.
I think that little spoilered bit about Vulkan makes me want to pick up the book.
I will probably look to pick that up. For those interested, Mark of Calth has hit Trade Paperback status as of a few weeks ago, so what 6 more months before it's out in MMPB?
Also I saw a book at my FLGS that had Seven in the title? I don't remember the whole thing, perhaps someone can fill in the blanks of my memory
Noted the Fists are also using/fielding an Emperor's Champion .. wonder if this is, perhaps, a hint from the forthcoming codex.
Emperors Champion was available to all sons of Dorn since the Heresy...
...until those who had to use C: SM couldn't add anything per index astartes / chapter approved to spice their army.
So it was limited to the BT. ( codex )
Successors of the Imperial Fists space marine Legion always could have an EC.
THE STORY
Of all the Legiones Astartes, the White Scars of Jaghatai Khan remain the most enigmatic and elusive. Born of a civilisation that prizes honour, speed and fearsome loyalty, their allegiance has yet remained unclear even as the galaxy is torn apart by Horus’s treachery, and both sides have apparently counted them among their potential allies in the war to come. But when the Alpha Legion launch an unexplained and simultaneous attack against the White Scars and Space Wolves, the Khan must decide once and for all whether he will stand with the Emperor or the Warmaster... or neither.
The exciting story begins in this first eBook episode of an all-new novel by Chris Wraight.
ABOUT THIS EDITION
A serialised Horus Heresy novel by Chris Wraight. A new episode every week for twelve weeks.
So this is kind of like what they tried to do in Hammer and Bolter? In that they serialise the book chapter by chapter for those that want to get it, before releasing the full book at the end?
THE STORY
Of all the Legiones Astartes, the White Scars of Jaghatai Khan remain the most enigmatic and elusive. Born of a civilisation that prizes honour, speed and fearsome loyalty, their allegiance has yet remained unclear even as the galaxy is torn apart by Horus’s treachery, and both sides have apparently counted them among their potential allies in the war to come. But when the Alpha Legion launch an unexplained and simultaneous attack against the White Scars and Space Wolves, the Khan must decide once and for all whether he will stand with the Emperor or the Warmaster... or neither.
The exciting story begins in this first eBook episode of an all-new novel by Chris Wraight.
ABOUT THIS EDITION
A serialised Horus Heresy novel by Chris Wraight. A new episode every week for twelve weeks.
.. hmmm ...
Interesting, so this would coincide with the Wolf and the Khan story from Collected Visions
Not so interesting it the serialised novel thing ...
Actually maybe a little better, at least there will be a final product that's decent sized but what is the point of this? Who wants to sit down and read a chapter at a time? Why do BL seem so intent of moving away from actual novels?
Actually maybe a little better, at least there will be a final product that's decent sized but what is the point of this? Who wants to sit down and read a chapter at a time? Why do BL seem so intent of moving away from actual novels?
To give you something to read maybe, since they have decided to do the whole hard back to paperback thing I am not reading as much BL as they would like me to. This way you can buy a chapter a week, that's 12 weeks of reading and then maybe another one week when you can read the whole thing in it's entirety!
Thanks BL! it'll make the abyss of not being able to read new Heresy books a lot less painful.
Wait a minute ... ebooks .... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We're over that hump with the hardback thing, at least for HH, AE landed a few weeks ago, Betrayer is out next month.
It was only the gap from the first HB release to the MMPB edition that caused a delay, us MMPB fans will now be on a similar schedule, but about two books behind.
azreal13 wrote: We're over that hump with the hardback thing, at least for HH, AE landed a few weeks ago, Betrayer is out next month.
It was only the gap from the first HB release to the MMPB edition that caused a delay, us MMPB fans will now be on a similar schedule, but about two books behind.
But then it's Mark of Calth and that'll be another long wait .. won't it?
Maybe it gets cheaper as it goes a long and they end up giving you the final complete one for free ...
Or like car insurance, you pay a big deposit and then 9 subsequent cheaper payments of x, maybe this is new Black Library book insurance and after the 12 weeks you have to renew your book reading policy to be able to read the book. I should stop typing now just in case I am giving someone from BL ideas ...
While on holiday I had the chance to read Skarsnick and Siege of Castellax and I was pretty surprised as I'd been expecting to really enjoy Siege of Castellax and I wasn't expecting much from Skarsnick. But it turned out to be the other way round Siege of Castellax just didn't seem to get there, it didn't get across the idea that the IW know everything there is to know about siege warfare and it just felt wet. However the author did do a pretty good job on the sections based on humans. In the end however it felt like a bit of a chore finishing. Skarsnick on the other hand was a great read, Guy Haley did a great job on getting across both the cruel sadistic side of the goblins and also the fun side. One of the downsides for both of these books was the ending like a lot of BL books both felt like they had been rushed. (The epilogue for the Siege of Castellax was pretty good and as a Chaos player put a smile on my face.)
I realize that we're in New Fluff territory now, but:
Of all the Legiones Astartes, the White Scars of Jaghatai Khan remain the most enigmatic and elusive.
Really?
And I kind of liked that in the past, the White Scars were loyal without a doubt, and were one of the main defenders of Terra when it all went down there.
I think the authors need to stop dirtying up every Legion just for the Grimdark of it.
Alpharius wrote: I realize that we're in New Fluff territory now, but:
Of all the Legiones Astartes, the White Scars of Jaghatai Khan remain the most enigmatic and elusive.
Really?
And I kind of liked that in the past, the White Scars were loyal without a doubt, and were one of the main defenders of Terra when it all went down there.
I think the authors need to stop dirtying up every Legion just for the Grimdark of it.
It won't be that expensive if by chapter four you realize you hate: the author, the style of writing, the storyline, or just the price tag. You can off yourself or the serial and no more fuss.
Theophony wrote: It won't be that expensive if by chapter four you realize you hate: the author, the style of writing, the storyline, or just the price tag. You can off yourself or the serial and no more fuss.
I know i know. But that's only if I don't like it. I actually really like Wraight's writing, and Brotherhood of the Storm was surprisingly fantastic. So, if I dip in the toe, chances are I'm going to be suckered into the full $36.
Plus, then I have to deal with 12 different files, which would suck.
Theophony wrote: It won't be that expensive if by chapter four you realize you hate: the author, the style of writing, the storyline, or just the price tag. You can off yourself or the serial and no more fuss.
I know i know. But that's only if I don't like it. I actually really like Wraight's writing, and Brotherhood of the Storm was surprisingly fantastic. So, if I dip in the toe, chances are I'm going to be suckered into the full $36.
Plus, then I have to deal with 12 different files, which would suck.
Or you can wait till the end when they will release the collection for 48.00 because they had to merge the files together for you . Sorry guys I stop in from time to time to see if BL got their stuff pulled out of you know where. I'd like to buy AE and the other books, but even with them now being available in pb I still refuse to buy because of the slap in the face. I really enjoyed the series, but all this tomfoolery was just to much to make it enjoyable anymore.
Or you can wait till the end when they will release the collection for 48.00 because they had to merge the files together for you . Sorry guys I stop in from time to time to see if BL got their stuff pulled out of you know where. I'd like to buy AE and the other books, but even with them now being available in pb I still refuse to buy because of the slap in the face. I really enjoyed the series, but all this tomfoolery was just to much to make it enjoyable anymore.
Well, at the most it would be $36, but your hyperbole is duly noted.
I don't know what other tomfoolery you speak of, aside from the novellas. Unless you're one of the really mad-about-MMPB people. Then I know what you're speaking of. I completely disagree that it's in any way, shape, or form tomfoolery, but I know what you're talking about at least.
LOL serialization. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to remind us that we know nothing about publishing and this is actually the only thing that makes selling fiction possible these days. I just hope it's not Aaron this time as that would be truly shameful. In any case, I like Chris Wraight and I like the White Scars so ... I guess I'll see if I still want to buy this a year from now.
Manchu wrote: LOL serialization. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to remind us that we know nothing about publishing and this is actually the only thing that makes selling fiction possible these days. I just hope it's not Aaron this time as that would be truly shameful. In any case, I like Chris Wraight and I like the White Scars so ... I guess I'll see if I still want to buy this a year from now.
Again, I actually like the notion of serialization. Just not at this pricepoint.
Are there really people so desperate to read this WS story that they'll a) put up with a 12 week serialisation without going nuts and b) pay that ridiculous price ? I fear there may be... which is why BL keep pulling these tricks and I say this as someone prepared to pay for ebooks and even e-shorts while waiting for the MMPB to arrive. Personally I'll pass.
Agree with Alph too, at this rate it is only a matter of time before we have traitor Fists or Ultras running around
Eusebius wrote: Are there really people so desperate to read this WS story that they'll a) put up with a 12 week serialisation without going nuts and b) pay that ridiculous price ? I fear there may be... which is why BL keep pulling these tricks and I say this as someone prepared to pay for ebooks and even e-shorts while waiting for the MMPB to arrive. Personally I'll pass.
Agree with Alph too, at this rate it is only a matter of time before we have traitor Fists or Ultras running around
For those of you that haven't read Brotherhood of the Storm:
There was already a pretty big schism being displayed in the White Scars between their Terran and Chogoris factions. I'd wager that may have something to do with it.
Eusebius wrote: Are there really people so desperate to read this WS story that they'll a) put up with a 12 week serialisation without going nuts and b) pay that ridiculous price ? I fear there may be... which is why BL keep pulling these tricks and I say this as someone prepared to pay for ebooks and even e-shorts while waiting for the MMPB to arrive. Personally I'll pass.
Agree with Alph too, at this rate it is only a matter of time before we have traitor Fists or Ultras running around
For those of you that haven't read Brotherhood of the Storm:
There was already a pretty big schism being displayed in the White Scars between their Terran and Chogoris factions. I'd wager that may have something to do with it.
Yeah, that really is part of the same 'problem' that I was talking about.
Not every Legion has to have The Dirty applied to it!
It kind of makes sense to do this with WS, though. I mean, they are not famous for being fanatically loyal like the IF or super fastidious like the UM. There are two ways this could go: (1) they're the Loyalist version of the Alpha Legion, like how people used to think of the DA, or (2) there are some wolves among the sheep, a reverse version of how there are guys like Garro, Tarvitz, and Loken among the traitors.
Every Legion certainly has a flaw ... and in the HH it would make sense that they'd all examine their flaws in light of this Big Question: do we remain loyal?
Alpharius wrote:I realize that we're in New Fluff territory now, but:
Of all the Legiones Astartes, the White Scars of Jaghatai Khan remain the most enigmatic and elusive.
Really?
And I kind of liked that in the past, the White Scars were loyal without a doubt, and were one of the main defenders of Terra when it all went down there.
I think the authors need to stop dirtying up every Legion just for the Grimdark of it.
I read it more as BL/GW acknowledging there's very little fluff on the HH Scars, but I most certainly agree with what you're saying.
cincydooley wrote:I was pretty prepared to like the Serialized HH novel. I actually really like serialization; it's like reading a TV show every week.
But $2.99 per chapter, with 12 chapters, is really pushing it. And I own all the limited novellas....
They should have done them for $1.99 a piece, with the option to purchase a "serial subscription" for like, $15-20 bucks. I'd have been sold on that.
I'm not sold on paying $36 bucks though.
Blah.
Agreed, I really liked the idea of serialisation as a way to get the novel without having to shell out for hardback or wait for 9 months, but not at this price.
cincydooley wrote:
Theophony wrote: It won't be that expensive if by chapter four you realize you hate: the author, the style of writing, the storyline, or just the price tag. You can off yourself or the serial and no more fuss.
I know i know. But that's only if I don't like it. I actually really like Wraight's writing, and Brotherhood of the Storm was surprisingly fantastic. So, if I dip in the toe, chances are I'm going to be suckered into the full $36.
Plus, then I have to deal with 12 different files, which would suck.
I guess that's exactly what they are thinking, and it wouldn't surprise me if people went for it: plastic crack or limited edition codices suggest to me it's a viable strategy for BL.
Alpharius wrote: So every single Legion has to have a big secret and/or flaw?
It starts to come across as more of a way to drag things out than to 'make things interesting'.
Maybe I'm just jaded by now, and the bloom is off the rose, but yeah, how many more books until we get to Terra?
I think the problem comes from the fact that BL wants to give each Legion their due to sate all of the fans (and of course their wallets).
I'm with you that I really want to get to Terra, but I'm really happy being along for the ride too.
Personally, I'd like them to have mapped out the next "big series" for when the HH finishes before they conclude the HH. I'd happily read anything about the Unification Wars or the time following the HH too.
Manchu wrote: Every Legion certainly has a flaw ... and in the HH it would make sense that they'd all examine their flaws in light of this Big Question: do we remain loyal?
I'm fine with every Legion having flaws, but are the Scars really the most enigmatic or elusive? Not the Alpha Legion, the Dark Angels...?
Manchu wrote: Every Legion certainly has a flaw ... and in the HH it would make sense that they'd all examine their flaws in light of this Big Question: do we remain loyal?
I'm fine with every Legion having flaws, but are the Scars really the most enigmatic or elusive? Not the Alpha Legion, the Dark Angels...?
In point of fact, we know more about both the Alpha Legion and DA than the White Scars. Those Legions may be the most secretive but the WS are apparently hiding in the open. This is kind of like the SW refrain of appearing to be barbarians.
Manchu wrote: Every Legion certainly has a flaw ... and in the HH it would make sense that they'd all examine their flaws in light of this Big Question: do we remain loyal?
I'm fine with every Legion having flaws, but are the Scars really the most enigmatic or elusive? Not the Alpha Legion, the Dark Angels...?
I thought the same thing, obviously, but I'll chalk this one up to 'Standard Advertising Hyperbole Limited To the Back Cover Of This Book'.
And yes, every Legion is flawed, but really?
Every Loyalist Legion teetered on the verge of Betrayal?
Though to be fair, I guess we haven't seen any such glimmers from the Imperial Fists.
Manchu wrote: Every Legion certainly has a flaw ... and in the HH it would make sense that they'd all examine their flaws in light of this Big Question: do we remain loyal?
I'm fine with every Legion having flaws, but are the Scars really the most enigmatic or elusive? Not the Alpha Legion, the Dark Angels...?
I thought the same thing, obviously, but I'll chalk this one up to 'Standard Advertising Hyperbole Limited To the Back Cover Of This Book'.
And yes, every Legion is flawed, but really?
Every Loyalist Legion teetered on the verge of Betrayal?
Though to be fair, I guess we haven't seen any such glimmers from the Imperial Fists.
Yet!
I don't think we've seen it in any of the Dropsite victims, nor the Space Wolves either...
Manchu wrote: Every Legion certainly has a flaw ... and in the HH it would make sense that they'd all examine their flaws in light of this Big Question: do we remain loyal?
I'm fine with every Legion having flaws, but are the Scars really the most enigmatic or elusive? Not the Alpha Legion, the Dark Angels...?
In point of fact, we know more about both the Alpha Legion and DA than the White Scars. Those Legions may be the most secretive but the WS are apparently hiding in the open. This is kind of like the SW refrain of appearing to be barbarians.
I'm under the impression that's only because there's been more published about the Alpha Legion and Dark Angels, rather than the Scars actually being more enigmatic... Going back to the different interpretations by me and Alph.
To be honest, it DOES sort of make sense for the White Scars.
My main complaints with the Garro "Sword of Truth" audio drama was that the plot twist was so very obvious.
And it does make sense with what little we know about the White Scars. Plus, it differentiates them more from the Space Wolves.
Spoiler:
Effectively, the White Scars bought very heavily into the Luna Wolves 'Lodges' culture, which was the source of a great many individual tribes/warbands/companies choosing to follow Horus, no matter what the Great Khan would say.
I mean, that's what tribal based barbarians would probably do. Weren't the Mongols / Huns / Timur / (Dothraki ) known for quite regular backstabbery and infighting until someone put their foot down?
On that note, I probably should read Brotherhood of the Storm now.
As for the Fists, I can imagine their only 'betrayal' will be despair. I see the Imperial Fists and Dorn as being the main avatar of the slide of the Imperial of the 30th Millennium to the Imperial of the 41st. The info we've got about "The Unremembered Empire" so far seems to suggest to me that the dudes from the Crimson Fist story will be the staunchest 'loyalists' in the story.
I've never gotten the impression that WS wear their hearts on their sleeves like UM and IF. Alph could be right that it's just marketing hyperbole but from a out-of-setting perspective the statement is true. The only legions we know less about are II and XI.
It would be dumb to depict the UM, IF, SW, BA, or Sallies on the edge of rebellion. Thankfully, it hasn't happened -- despite certain interpretations of Guilliman.
Compel wrote: I see the Imperial Fists and Dorn as being the main avatar of the slide of the Imperial of the 30th Millennium to the Imperial of the 41st
Manchu wrote: I've never gotten the impression that WS wear their hearts on their sleeves like UM and IF. Alph could be right that it's just marketing hyperbole but from a out-of-setting perspective the statement is true. The only legions we know less about are II and XI.
It would be dumb to depict the UM, IF, SW, BA, or Sallies on the edge of rebellion. Thankfully, it hasn't happened -- despite certain interpretations of Guilliman.
I like the idea of their divided loyalties - in contrast to Alph - but their being the most "enigmatic or elusive" is not true from an out-of-setting or in-setting perspective, IMHO.
From an in-setting perspective, the Alpha Legion or even Dark Angels are the most enigmatic/elusive.
From an out-of-universe setting the Scars are simply one of the least covered.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could also say Sigismund is a bit of betrayal for the Imperial Fists.
Alpharius wrote: I guess my main problem is that up until now, the loyalty of the White Scars has never been up for debate - not even a little, or a hint.
But then, yeah, we didn't really know all that much of them - besides their excellent Index Astartes article, of course.
And there was no hint at a lack of loyalty in that, even if it was rather bare, why can't the Scars be as loyal as the Wolves or Fists now like they always have been.
I like the idea of their divided loyalties - in contrast to Alph - but their being the most "enigmatic or elusive" is not true from an out-of-setting or in-setting perspective, IMHO.
From an in-setting perspective, the Alpha Legion or even Dark Angels are the most enigmatic/elusive.
Indeed, they are elusive in the way that you can't hold them down for long I guess, as they seem to zip about but they aren't in the way as the DA or AL, they seem to be be a pretty cut and dry Legion.
Just Dave wrote: From an out-of-universe setting the Scars are simply one of the least covered, but not the most enigmatic or elusive.
We must be thinking about this very differently. All I mean is, we know hardly anything about the WS. We have a much better sense of every other Legion (minus II and XI) -- so, given their usual definitions, words like enigmatic and elusive certainly apply from the perspective of info available to fans.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pilau Rice wrote: why can't the Scars be as loyal as the Wolves or Fists now like they always have been
Even before the HH series, there was never any question that the IF were the most loyal of all the Legions -- in that they had no other agenda whatsoever (at least from their own perspective) than to faithfully serve the Emperor. The other Legions, by contrast, can be said to have "cultural" priorities that do not preclude loyalty. The IF culture IS loyalty.
Index Astartes wrote:The historian, Carpinus, who compiled a detailed history of the Great Crusade (the so-called Speculum Historiale), notes that Jaghatai`s armies finished the destruction of the Palatine`s realm a mere six months before the Emperor reached Chogoris. When the two men met, it is said that the Khan knew he had met someone who embodied the ultimate ideal he had striven for, a man who could unite all the stars in the sky. At his palace in the city of Quan Zhou, in front of all his generals, he dropped to one knee and swore eternal fealty to the Emperor. The Primarch was given command of the 5th Legion, which adopted the long facial scars of the Talaskr tribesmen that ran from forehead to chin, and renamed themselves the White Scars. The Great Khan ascended to the heavens with the emperor, passing the Khanship to his general Ogedei. Many of Jaghatai`s followers elected to join their Khan and became Space Marines within Legion.
I guess in this newer version, he might have become disillusioned and...changed his mind.
I am willing to give it all the benefit of the doubt, and wait for Cincy's spoiler-free review in 12 weeks.
Just Dave wrote: From an out-of-universe setting the Scars are simply one of the least covered, but not the most enigmatic or elusive.
We must be thinking about this very differently. All I mean is, we know hardly anything about the WS. We have a much better sense of every other Legion (minus II and XI) -- so, given their usual definitions, words like enigmatic and elusive certainly apply from the perspective of info available to fans.
Yeah, just seems to be different interpretations: going back to Alph seeing it as hyperbole, or me seeing it as due to BL/GW's own lack of coverage.
Alpharius wrote: I guess in this newer version, he might have become disillusioned and...changed his mind.
A few of them did, you know.
Anyway, I'm not sure it's the case that the Great Khan is having doubts so much as some of his Legionnaires.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pilau Rice wrote: So that makes the Wolves less loyal to the All father then, because of their different outlook on stuff.
In a sense. As you point out, they are loyal to the Allfather rather than the Emperor. Put it another way, they are loyal to their conception of the Emperor. So was Horus, for a time. Now, you may argue that the IF have their own conception of the Emperor that is no more objective than the SW's -- and I won't argue with you there. The IF are a troubled bunch. But I will say, that's not how they see themselves. They have no terms like "Allfather" standing between them and the Emperor.
Pilau Rice wrote: Doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me, they are loyal to the Emperor as he and the All Father are one and the same.
Interesting debating point, are you being loyal if you believe your loyalty is to some thing else, even if they are essentially or actually the same entity/belief/whatever?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theophony wrote: It won't be that expensive if by chapter four you realize you hate: the author, the style of writing, the storyline, or just the price tag. You can off yourself or the serial and no more fuss.
By that time, you could have bought the MMPB for the same money when it comes out, and at least have the option of finishing it in the future.
Pilau Rice wrote: Doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me, they are loyal to the Emperor as he and the All Father are one and the same.
Interesting debating point, are you being loyal if you believe your loyalty is to some thing else, even if they are essentially or actually the same entity/belief/whatever?
Yeah, well the Space Wolves listen to like, none of the Emperors edicts beyond when he tells them to censure someone.
Edict at Nikea? Ignored.
Also interesting that they 'worship' the allfather (ostensibly the Emperor) and dont get reprimanded, while Lorgar and his sons get the smack in the dick from Guilliman.
i think that the Khan having internal strife in the legion could be interesting...
having some his own men loyal to Horus, while he is loyal to the Emperor, makes for an interesting, tense, dilema...
if everyone was good and loyal, there wouldn't be much of a story to tell, just more bolter porn...
i am enjoying all the new twists, instead of just rehashing the last 25 years of published material...
It can be pretty important. Think of the AdMech: they're not loyal to the Emperor but rather to the Omnissiah. Therefore, those who do not believe he is the Omnissiah ...
jah-joshua wrote: i think that the Khan having internal strife in the legion could be interesting...
having some his own men loyal to Horus, while he is loyal to the Emperor, makes for an interesting, tense, dilema...
if everyone was good and loyal, there wouldn't be much of a story to tell, just more bolter porn...
i am enjoying all the new twists, instead of just rehashing the last 25 years of published material...
jah-joshua wrote: i think that the Khan having internal strife in the legion could be interesting...
having some his own men loyal to Horus, while he is loyal to the Emperor, makes for an interesting, tense, dilema...
if everyone was good and loyal, there wouldn't be much of a story to tell, just more bolter porn...
i am enjoying all the new twists, instead of just rehashing the last 25 years of published material...
cheers
jah
With you on this, as long as they continue the MMPB format, and avoid any more ludicrous breaks in releases, I'm content to enjoy the journey. This is literally telling the story that underpins the 40K universe as we know it, and that I have personally known for two thirds of my life, and a quarter century all told. The Heresy used to be nothing more than snippets and rumours shown through the lens of 10,000 years of history and superstition, now we have insights to the characters and personalities behind the events, even dialogue featuring the Emperor himself!
I'm sure there is a line they could cross with too much prevarication, but they're not there yet.
(I've just finished and thoroughly enjoyed Angel Exterminatus, so I'm on a bit of a Heresy high at the moment!)
If nothing else, everyone needs more practice before writing about the Siege of Terra. And more time to establish the plot lines and characterization that will make it truly epic.
azreal13 wrote:Didn't they ignore the edict because they didn't believe their Runepriests actually were psykers?
Seem to remember something in the old 2nd Ed book about that, don't know if it carried forwards.
In Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns they talk about how the Rune Priests powers of the Wyrd come from Fenris and not from the Warp like Psykers. So the conclusions we can legally make is that they are not Psykers. Though we as readers know this to be false.
jah-joshua wrote:i think that the Khan having internal strife in the legion could be interesting...
having some his own men loyal to Horus, while he is loyal to the Emperor, makes for an interesting, tense, dilema...
if everyone was good and loyal, there wouldn't be much of a story to tell, just more bolter porn...
i am enjoying all the new twists, instead of just rehashing the last 25 years of published material...
cheers
jah
Spoiler:
Sword of Truth audiodrama revealed some White Scars that were loyal to Horus...
Alfndrate wrote: In Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns they talk about how the Rune Priests powers of the Wyrd come from Fenris and not from the Warp like Psykers. So the conclusions we can legally make is that they are not Psykers. Though we as readers know this to be false.
You have to read it like a lawyer.
Manchu wrote: His explicit command, at least in A Thousand Sons was that no Legion would maintain a Librarius Department. According to the strict letter of the Edict, therefore, whether a Codex Chapter might do so was not actually decided since Codex Chapters did not then exist except in Guilliman's mind. Some people use this as evidence for Guilliman being disloyal but that seems weak to me, as well. This is also probably how Russ could get away with still deploying psykers since he didn't seem to maintain a "Librarius Department." We have no evidence that Russ was disloyal or that the Emperor knew/cared about SW psykers.
Which reminds me -- Khan worked with Magnus to establish the Libarius structure. There are likely WS that rankle at the Edict, something now SW would care about one way or the other.
Alfndrate wrote: In Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns they talk about how the Rune Priests powers of the Wyrd come from Fenris and not from the Warp like Psykers. So the conclusions we can legally make is that they are not Psykers. Though we as readers know this to be false.
You have to read it like a lawyer.
Manchu wrote: His explicit command, at least in A Thousand Sons was that no Legion would maintain a Librarius Department. According to the strict letter of the Edict, therefore, whether a Codex Chapter might do so was not actually decided since Codex Chapters did not then exist except in Guilliman's mind. Some people use this as evidence for Guilliman being disloyal but that seems weak to me, as well. This is also probably how Russ could get away with still deploying psykers since he didn't seem to maintain a "Librarius Department." We have no evidence that Russ was disloyal or that the Emperor knew/cared about SW psykers.
Remember, the edict only disbands Libarius departments and directs former members of said departments back to the line companies and forbids them to use psychic powers. It's actually quite narrow. According to the wording of the Edict, it's not psykers that are the problem -- it's the Libarius program developed by Magnus, Khan, and Sanguinius.
jah-joshua wrote: i think that the Khan having internal strife in the legion could be interesting...
having some his own men loyal to Horus, while he is loyal to the Emperor, makes for an interesting, tense, dilema...
if everyone was good and loyal, there wouldn't be much of a story to tell, just more bolter porn...
i am enjoying all the new twists, instead of just rehashing the last 25 years of published material...
cheers
jah
I agree. I think Scars sounds like it has the potential to be the best HH book in a long time, when I eventually read it.
Alpharius wrote: I guess my main problem is that up until now, the loyalty of the White Scars has never been up for debate - not even a little, or a hint.
But then, yeah, we didn't really know all that much of them - besides their excellent Index Astartes article, of course.
Actually, there has always been a huge question about the White Scars - why did they remain loyal?
Horus expected The Khan to side with him. He was convinced - he states it outright in the fluff. But he was wrong - and Horus does not make that many mistakes. He manipulates and outmanoeuvres the best of the loyalist Primarchs, but completely misreads The Khan.
And what a mistake it turns out to be - The Khan's Legion is one of the three that are critical to the defence of Terra. If Horus had been right, and The Khan had joined him as he expected, the Siege would have been over before it began - the Imperial Fists and Blood Angels would not have been able to hold on their own, and Horus would have won.
So, there are some major questions that need answering about The Khan. Yes, he remains loyal, and plays a key role in the Siege, but why? And why was Horus so very very wrong about him?
Index Astartes wrote:The White Scars Space Marines hold true to the vision of Jaghatai Khan in the ultimate unification of Humanity. They venerate the Emperor as the ultimate Uniter and as their founding father, but not as a deity.
Granted, BL is absolutely bringing a lot to the table, and filling in a lot of holes, gaps, etc.
But I certainly don't remember and pre-BLHH series fluff about any of that!
Yeah, as Manchu said, there's far from always been a huge question over the Khan's loyalty: thats only recently been introduced, whether you see it as retconning or simply expansion.
As to why Khan stays loyal, I think it would interesting if it was something as tenuous as simply honour: that he agrees with Horus, but sides with the Big E for honour. Then again, it may only be his Legion, rather than Khan, that has tenuous loyalties...
But I certainly don't remember and pre-BLHH series fluff about any of that!
Collected Visions, p196: [Horus] "Khan is out of our reach on Terra but I fear him not and believe he will ultimately side with us."
I'm a big fan of the White Scars and have been mentioning this intriguing and catastrophic mistake by Horus at BL events for several years (hoping that it will get written about) so I'm really looking forward to seeing how it is fleshed out.
@Alpharius - I prefer a different interpretation. Rather than Horus just being a pantomime villain, I like to see him represented as a tactical expert. Flawed in some ways, yes, but still a very skilled and formidable commander - and I think BL have been trying to portray him this way too, which is good.
Rather than Horus's misjudgement of the Khan being due to arrogance or stupidity, I would rather see a more interesting story unfold, where the Khan is a complex character and Horus makes a rare, but ultimately fatal mistake.
I'm looking forward to seeing the frictions that occur between the loyalist Primarchs at the Siege:
[Dorn] We must all defend the walls.
[Sanguinius] Yes, we must all defend the walls.
[Khan] Bye guys, I'm going over there...
[Dorn and Sanguinius] WTF?!
It can be pretty important. Think of the AdMech: they're not loyal to the Emperor but rather to the Omnissiah. Therefore, those who do not believe he is the Omnissiah ...
Never did and never will, the Space Wolves on the other hand all believe that he is the Allfather and follow him wholeheartedly and their loyalty is never bought into question even when their acts are under suspicion.
Some do believe him to be the Omnissiah and accept him so, but the relationship between the Emperor and the Admech was initially a bargained loyalty. After those that did not believe he was the Omnissiah or wish to follow him seized the Temple of All Knowledge and the Emperor and his Space Marines put down the brief rebellion he had the means to make it, take me as you Omnissiah as many of you recognise me to be or I will release the Space Marines. It was a gamble of the Emperor behalf as well for a war with Mars would have been extremely costly for both sides and he needed Mars, but it paid off. Kelbor Hal in Mechanicum reflects on this saying that he never trusted or accepted the Emperor as the Omnissiah if I recall, grudgingly having to bend the knee.
The Wolves are the most loyal if you ask me, blind loyalty, after all you couldn't trust a dis loyal legion to be the executioners could you, even the World Eaters say something to that extent.
Just some musings on the Fists. They on the other hand, it's like it is their will to be loyal, they force themselves into doing it, it is their duty to be loyal and they will be, much with everything else it's their stubbornness that makes them so. Dorn was the only Primarch to go out and find his Father, maybe it was this determination to serve that forced him out into the stars. Thinking on it maybe that's what broke Dorn in the end, losing his direction. He no longer had a father to serve, all that he knew was changing around him, the Imperium was ash and dust, his Legion taken away from him. What did he have left.
Isn't there a new version of Collected Visions being written that will update and coincide with the Heresy series?
Brotherhood of the Storm mentions the relationship that Horus and the Khan have.
I completely agree with your thoughts here. Regarding the SW, I have no doubt that they're loyal. I'm just trying to draw the distinction that there doesn't seem to be a cultural qualification of the IFs' loyalty as there is with the SWs'.
Manchu wrote: LOL serialization. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to remind us that we know nothing about publishing and this is actually the only thing that makes selling fiction possible these days. I just hope it's not Aaron this time as that would be truly shameful.
The key difference (your bizarre hyperbole aside) is that last time you and a couple of others were making wild assumptions and critically misunderstanding something, so I politely explained why it was wrong and how it actually works in the industry; whereas this time it's a simple opinion on a format you don't like. There's nothing to argue with, correct, or debate. So there's no need for silliness like the text I just quoted. Is there some lingering negative sentiment you feel because were corrected? That seems unnecessary. No one knows everything, dude. No shame in getting something wrong.
Heck, I think serialisations are interesting enough, but it's not something I've ever been into. I can't stand watching TV series once a week, either. Box set or bust, for me. But I can see why a lot of serialised novels make a killing, and it's not like Game of Thrones and/or every TV series ever is suffering from the format, so I appreciate that just 'cause it's not for me, doesn't mean it's not for anyone.
Aaron, do you happen to have any insight on why they chose that pricing, effectively making it more expensive than the hardcover when it's all said and done?
I really love Chris' writing, and I want to support him, but, for the first time for me with Black Library, I'm having trouble reconciling the pricing structure.
With the standard "Enhanced eBook" being $15.99 for the HH series (a price I'm comfortable with), the price point, when it's all said and done, more than doubles that eBook price. I'd have been willing to buy, say, a $20 "serial subscription" but a 200% markup is pretty tough for me to swallow. And I buy all the limited novellas because I love the series.
Would love to hear your thoughts, or, at the very least, know if it would be worth my while writing a letter (an acutal pen and ink one!) to the folks at BL expressing that opinion.
reds8n wrote: I'll refer you back to page 24 of this thread
Psh, no one reads these threads I just lurk for the pretty cover images and the arguments about book format. Now if you'll excuse me, I think I left something on page 24 >_>
Dead Blue Clown wrote: whereas this time it's a simple opinion on a format you don't like
Nah, it's the same thing -- reformatting content to theoretically squeeze more out of the consumer.
Well, it's not really, is it?
The print book format change was simply a move for them to a "industry standard" structure.
The serialized book is not.
Even as an unabashed HH fanboy that buys pretty much everything, the serialized pricing structure isn't sitting well with me.
Part of me wants to buy it because, you know, HH!!!!! But the other part of me doesn't want to spend money and tell them this structure is "okay."
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Alf - The book will eventually be released just like all the others, with the HB $30, Enhanced eBook $16...etc structure.
cincydooley wrote: I really love Chris' writing, and I want to support him, but, for the first time for me with Black Library, I'm having trouble reconciling the pricing structure. [...] I'd have been willing to buy, say, a $20 "serial subscription" but a 200% markup is pretty tough for me to swallow.
As a fan of Chris Wraight myself, I have been considering the same question. It's pretty much just like with the MMPB deal; you will still be able to get the novel but you'll have to wait. Again, the model is premium price for folks who want to read it first.
cincydooley wrote: I really love Chris' writing, and I want to support him, but, for the first time for me with Black Library, I'm having trouble reconciling the pricing structure. [...] I'd have been willing to buy, say, a $20 "serial subscription" but a 200% markup is pretty tough for me to swallow.
As a fan of Chris Wraight myself, I have been considering the same question. It's pretty much just like with the MMPB deal; you will still be able to get the novel but you'll have to wait. Again, the model is premium price for folks who want to read it first.
Alpharius wrote: I know I'm looking forward to reading this book sometime in 2015!
I think that's a major fething issue. Granted 2015 is a little hyperbolic (it should be Q4 2014 for MMPB right?), but still if I want this book I have to wait months for it to come out in a format I want. Now I know that I own all of the Harry Potter Hardbacks and I bought them day 1 (I was a kid so sue me ), but to wait over a year in to get it in a format I want is a royal pain in the ass for me as a reader. I still don't own the third hunger games book because it wasn't in paperback when I bought the other two.
I just think that adding on yet another thing to delay a book format just sucks. I realize that the whole, HB, TPB, MMPB thing is more of a trend than I had realized, it still sucks that we keep having the format changed on us so the format we might want get's pushed back.
When is the serialization release, or what page can I find this on again? Because to wait until May of next year for even the TPB sucks.
cincydooley wrote: I actually understand and don't necessarily mind the "get it first" premium.
Well of course! You call it "industry standard" after all. What "industry standard" broadly means is asking for as much as you think you can get. The serialization issue is just your breaking point. For others, it was the price of hardcovers. The answer BL has for all of us is, you'll just have to wait.
cincydooley wrote: I actually understand and don't necessarily mind the "get it first" premium.
Well of course! You call it "industry standard" after all. What "industry standard" broadly means is asking for as much as you think you can get. The serialization issue is just your breaking point. For others, it was the price of hardcovers. The answer BL has for all of us is, you'll just have to wait.
As long as waiting remains an option, I'm ok with that.
My concern is the continued support for those of us who would like their books to all line up neatly will quietly disappear over time. Especially as the "legacy edition" Mark Of Calth doesn't seem to be showing on Amazon for pre-order yet.
I think your concern is well-founded. BL's changes seem less to do with the publishing industry and more to do with conforming themselves to GW's larger business plan. A cornerstone of that plan is price insensitivity. Supporting "legacy" ranges is obviously not a cornerstone of that plan.
cincydooley wrote: I actually understand and don't necessarily mind the "get it first" premium.
Well of course! You call it "industry standard" after all. What "industry standard" broadly means is asking for as much as you think you can get. The serialization issue is just your breaking point. For others, it was the price of hardcovers. The answer BL has for all of us is, you'll just have to wait.
Naw, I don't actually think paying the "get it first" premium is any kind of 'industry standard,' in publishing or in anything else I know of.
With that being said, I understand it. People will be pay extra to be the first. gak, people pay like, $150 extra at GenCon to be a "very imporant gamer" which effectively allows you to enter the dealer hall first. Same thing happened at Adepticon.
And frankly, BLs bastardization of the MMPB is right in line with the publishing industry, who has seen the eBook overtake it as the disposable format of choice for readers. It may not be your choice, but the numbers bear out that is the more popular choice.
cincydooley wrote: Naw, I don't actually think paying the "get it first" premium is any kind of 'industry standard,' in publishing or in anything else I know of.
So what is the general point of hard cover releases? And before you say "collector's edition," please remember that ebooks released alongside of hardcovers cost more, too.
cincydooley wrote: Naw, I don't actually think paying the "get it first" premium is any kind of 'industry standard,' in publishing or in anything else I know of.
So what is the general point of hard cover releases? And before you say "collector's edition," please remember that ebooks released alongside of hardcovers cost more, too.
The point of hardcovers, IMO, is purely for the collector. I know that's not the answer you're looking for, but hardcovers look nice on a shelf. Worn ass MMPBs, IMO, don't.
And not to belabor the point, but it's pretty standard for a 'new' ebook on amazon to cost most at it's launch than it does 3 months down the road. Gotta squeeze those few extra $$ out of the people that want it right now. The same happens with blu-rays, and video games, and pretty much every other media format. If you want it the day it launches, you pay more. If you want to wait, you'll pay less.
Manchu wrote: So now you are saying it is an industry standard?
Are we talking about serialization or all of the formatting and pricing pieces?
If we're talking about serialization, then no, I don't think its any kind of industry standard, and think it's a really lame money grab, especially since you can't do a bundle at the outset to entice and save. Though now that I think about it, the argument could easily be made regarding all the new serialized video games that you can get cheaper later if you wait for the full "package." See: Walking Dead, Back to the Future on PSN.
If we're talking about the Hardcover or eBook prices that lower the older the novel is, then yes, I do think it's pretty standard within the publishing industry.
And I get that you're poking a bit of fun at me for using the "industry standard" line, but I mean, its the truth...
cincydooley wrote: Are we talking about serialization or all of the formatting and pricing pieces?
We're talking about paying more for getting something first.
cincydooley wrote: And I get that you're poking a bit of fun at me for using the "industry standard" line, but I mean, its the truth...
Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you. I'm just using that as a label for the point of view that BL must try to be more like publishing giants in order to survive. I disagree with that line of thought. To me, BL is instead trying to be more like GW and certain trends in publishing generally provide easy examples of how to raise prices while decreasing costs/without raising quality. I have no doubt that GW is paying close attention to the video game industry as well in this regard. Indeed, BL has been on what could be termed a "microtransaction" kick for a while now.
Manchu wrote: [q I'm just using that as a label for the point of view that BL must try to be more like publishing giants in order to survive. I disagree with that line of thought. To me, BL is instead trying to be more like GW and certain trends in publishing generally provide easy examples of how to raise prices while decreasing costs/without raising quality. I have no doubt that GW is paying close attention to the video game industry as well in this regard. Indeed, BL has been on what could be termed a "microtransaction" kick for a while now.
Oh, I don't think they need it at all to survive; I simply can see their justification for doing so, and because it's 'typical' have a less of a problem with it.
Good call on the micro-transactions with their short shorts, etc. My biggest problem with them is that it's hard to discern which are actually going to be worth it length wise, especially since the page #s are really, really misleading. I've learned that there's about 8-12 pages of filler in any GW eBook.
With that being said, some of the $2.99 short stories have been well done. I've had to pick and choose which, and I've ocassionally gotten a stinker.
I do think the overall quality of the BL writing has gotten better. I think the short stories are a GREAT way for them to test the waters with new authors. We got both Chris Wraight and John French that way.
I don't buy any of the short stories, they don't even put the page length up any more, I could be getting a 12 page story or a 120 page story there's just no way to tell :/
Now, if they were wanting to be *smart* and still do serialisation.
What any other company would do, is release part I for free. That way, it gets more people interested in it (eg, warhammer fantasy types), that would be willing to take a punt on it.
Then, if they particularly like the story and author, they'll be chomping at the bit for the next parts, even if it is £2 a pop.
I think there's some merit to the idea or process of serialisation.
I just don't think .. well don't feel would be more accurate here one supposes -- that this is the way to go about it.
It is exactly the sort of thing I think they should be publishing in White Dwarf, although presumably the monetary returns for that would be less than doing it this way ?
To me, BL is instead trying to be more like GW
I think you've gotten this wrong way round.
One would suggest -- and both some of the personnel/positional changes at GW and comments in things like the recent financial report lend further weight to this -- that in fact GW are moving more towards the BL way of doing things.
Hence the plethora of (direct only) limited edition books, collectors editions and "early" release of things in a digital format.
There has been some changes back the other way too of course -- hence the lack of information about forthcoming releases we now get from BL compared to what we had in the past.
Given the way in which they try to release things somewhat synergistically -- you'll note that each and every codex or rulebook is accompanied by a related Bl fiction short story or novel or somesuch far moreso these days than in the past ( which, generally, I think is a good thing and very sensible) -- one supposes they couldn't give out too much info as this could be indicative of what is forthcoming from GW/the design studio.
I think that somewhat obscures the relationship between these entities. But maybe this is my fault for talking about them as if they are separate, which is an artifact of arguing against the idea that BL is simply doing what publishers must do. The point I am really trying to make is that the company at issue here is actually GW and that the changes BL is undertaking are therefore not simply the result of the "new normal" in publishing fiction. The digital platform allows for a lot of this "mainstreaming" -- lower costs, higher prices ... even being able to harness model and fiction releases together as you mentioned.
But looking at things like Finecast and the even longer history of getting kits into plastic, i.e., the idea of lowering costs and raising prices over time, I don't think it's GW's experience with publishing fiction via BL that's driving these changes. I think that experience is, as I just mentioned, inspiring some of the specific tactics, like the HC to trade format. But GW is undoubtedly looking everywhere for such specific tactics, hence my point about BL's hard sell of micortransactions -- which owes a lot more to DLC than the ebook market for scifi novels.
Manchu wrote: LOL serialization. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to remind us that we know nothing about publishing and this is actually the only thing that makes selling fiction possible these days. I just hope it's not Aaron this time as that would be truly shameful.
The key difference (your bizarre hyperbole aside) is that last time you and a couple of others were making wild assumptions and critically misunderstanding something, so I politely explained why it was wrong and how it actually works in the industry;
Actually, if I recall correctly your "correction" was basically to tell us what we were already saying: that BL didn't need to move to TPBs in order to keep publishing (which was the lie we were arguing against), but that they do make more money and that sales weren't adversely affected by the change. In other words, you agreed that BL was greedy and offending some buyers, but disagreed that it was harmful to the company in the long term, as well as disagreeing on the magnitude of displeasure loyal customers should feel toward BL's behavior. You also agreed that it sucks that BL gave up NYT Bestseller status in exchange for additional cha-ching.
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Alfndrate wrote: I've never heard of books being released chapter by chapter in the modern era...
Will this book be released later on in some form of collected format like your standard dead tree or ebook?
Stephen King has done it a few times. It was usually cheaper, though.
It can be pretty important. Think of the AdMech: they're not loyal to the Emperor but rather to the Omnissiah. Therefore, those who do not believe he is the Omnissiah ...
Never did and never will, the Space Wolves on the other hand all believe that he is the Allfather and follow him wholeheartedly and their loyalty is never bought into question even when their acts are under suspicion.
Some do believe him to be the Omnissiah and accept him so, but the relationship between the Emperor and the Admech was initially a bargained loyalty. After those that did not believe he was the Omnissiah or wish to follow him seized the Temple of All Knowledge and the Emperor and his Space Marines put down the brief rebellion he had the means to make it, take me as you Omnissiah as many of you recognise me to be or I will release the Space Marines. It was a gamble of the Emperor behalf as well for a war with Mars would have been extremely costly for both sides and he needed Mars, but it paid off. Kelbor Hal in Mechanicum reflects on this saying that he never trusted or accepted the Emperor as the Omnissiah if I recall, grudgingly having to bend the knee.
The Wolves are the most loyal if you ask me, blind loyalty, after all you couldn't trust a dis loyal legion to be the executioners could you, even the World Eaters say something to that extent.
Just some musings on the Fists. They on the other hand, it's like it is their will to be loyal, they force themselves into doing it, it is their duty to be loyal and they will be, much with everything else it's their stubbornness that makes them so. Dorn was the only Primarch to go out and find his Father, maybe it was this determination to serve that forced him out into the stars. Thinking on it maybe that's what broke Dorn in the end, losing his direction. He no longer had a father to serve, all that he knew was changing around him, the Imperium was ash and dust, his Legion taken away from him. What did he have left.
Isn't there a new version of Collected Visions being written that will update and coincide with the Heresy series?
Brotherhood of the Storm mentions the relationship that Horus and the Khan have.
Maybe I'm not fully up to date but how come the Ultramarines haven't been mentioned during this whole "most loyal" discussion? They seem pretty dang loyal to Emperor and Imperium. Also, as the series developed we always seem to find out how Horus had some kind of special relationship with each Primarch and how that was what bought them to or pushed them to the edge. Gulliman on the other hand didn't seem to have much of a relationship with Horus.
Because the new Fluff has already put the tarnish on ol' Rouboute's rep!
On top of that, it looks like it might get a fresh coat of grime via THE UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE too - which I'll admit I'm quite looking forward to reading!
Maybe I'm not fully up to date but how come the Ultramarines haven't been mentioned during this whole "most loyal" discussion? They seem pretty dang loyal to Emperor and Imperium. Also, as the series developed we always seem to find out how Horus had some kind of special relationship with each Primarch and how that was what bought them to or pushed them to the edge. Gulliman on the other hand didn't seem to have much of a relationship with Horus.
I think it's partially due to, and I'll paraphrase Lorgar here, "He was too busy running his kingdom."
I don't think anyone has ever doubted Bobby's loyalty, its just that he's the one that could most easily run an autonomous empire outside of the Imperium.
Maybe I'm not fully up to date but how come the Ultramarines haven't been mentioned during this whole "most loyal" discussion? They seem pretty dang loyal to Emperor and Imperium. Also, as the series developed we always seem to find out how Horus had some kind of special relationship with each Primarch and how that was what bought them to or pushed them to the edge. Gulliman on the other hand didn't seem to have much of a relationship with Horus.
I think it's partially due to, and I'll paraphrase Lorgar here, "He was too busy running his kingdom."
I don't think anyone has ever doubted Bobby's loyalty, its just that he's the one that could most easily run an autonomous empire outside of the Imperium.
I don't see why Gulliman should be tarnished with his burden of being an excellent statesmen. So he makes planets a better place to live: how dare he!
The UM were mentioned to begin with. Alpharius lamented seeing UM and SW being prospectively being portrayed as traitors. We've been talking specifically about SW because of their Viking culture.
EDIT: Whoops, it was actually Eusebius:
Eusebius wrote: Agree with Alph too, at this rate it is only a matter of time before we have traitor Fists or Ultras running around
Alpharius wrote: Because the new Fluff has already put the tarnish on ol' Rouboute's rep!
Well like I said I'm behind. I'm dissapointed to hear that. I know an super goodey two-shoes is considered a boring character but I wouldn't mind seeing a Primarch that's an exemplar and stay that way. I figured Gulliman would be the one to fill that role but I guess it's supposed to be Sanguinus. In the grim darkness of the far future only the good die young I guess.
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Manchu wrote: The UM were mentioned to begin with. Alpharius lamented seeing UM and SW being prospectively being portrayed as traitors. We've been talking specifically about SW because of their Viking culture.
EDIT: Whoops, it was actually Eusebius:
Eusebius wrote: Agree with Alph too, at this rate it is only a matter of time before we have traitor Fists or Ultras running around
So we're proactively lameting the inevitable need to show "the dark side of the Ultramarines" or that's already happened? I only just finished Mechanicum. No Spoilers please!
There's nothing to spoil as of yet regarding the UM's faithfulness except some people believe the short story Rules of Engagement and the upcoming Unremembered Empire tarnish Guilliman's reputation for loyalty, if you consider those spoilers ...
the last serialized novel we had from BL was Phalanx, last year in Hammer & Bolter...
so, this new move is not exactly out of left field for BL...
the only difference is that H&B is a better deal, because you get a few other short stories with each issue...
personally, i'm happy to wait, and be able to read the whole story in on go...
i'm excited for some White Scars action, but really, in my life, six months pass in the blink of an eye, so waiting isn't a big deal...
besides, it's not like i don't have a hundred books i can read again while i wait...
maybe even paint some minis...
the latest HH release was a good one...
if you haven't grabbed Vulkan Lives, or are on the fence, get it...
it was a fast read, that kept me wanting to know more...
pretty much all fresh, new, stuff...
the Salamanders are interesting, and even have a new unit type we haven't seen in action...
i will be looking for them to make an appearance in the next Forge World book...
anyway, i think it's worth the read, either today, or sometime in 2014...
I'm hoping for completely new contents, as the old ones are a huge disappointment, with some of the worst art I've ever seen, particularly Mr Blanche's mess.
Well like I said I'm behind. I'm dissapointed to hear that. I know an super goodey two-shoes is considered a boring character but I wouldn't mind seeing a Primarch that's an exemplar and stay that way. I figured Gulliman would be the one to fill that role but I guess it's supposed to be Sanguinus. In the grim darkness of the far future only the good die young I guess.
I don't see how you can consider Sanguinius an exemplar, his robes are grubby enough from the BA fluff already in place, even if you're behind in the HH books. His possible flaws have been alluded to since the first codex in 2nd edition.
Ok, he apparently overcame them, if indeed he suffered with them at all, but he isn't perfect.
the Salamanders are interesting, and even have a new unit type we haven't seen in action...
i will be looking for them to make an appearance in the next Forge World book...
I noticed that in Angel Exterminatus, I had the thought more than once while reading it (thoroughly enjoyed it mind) that the HH books could very well be on their way to becoming the equivalent of a Mattel Saturday morning cartoon.
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Manchu wrote: Wait what flaws are you talking about?
Even Horus thought Sanguinius should have been Warmaster.
Well, the anti-Sanguinius camp would cite his apparent mutation, there's all the blood stuff and the constant implications around vampirism, and Horus clearly saw something to be exploited, hence the events in Fear To Tread. Trying to stay spoiler free here!
You know what I also really liked? The actual use of snipers in both Angel Exterminatus and Vulkan Lives. I thought that was a nice thing to see finally.
I actually quite like the idea of some elements of the Loyalist Legions fighting for the warmaster, and actually think it makes a lot of sense.
- The legions were massive, spread all over the galaxy. Not all of them would have been on a tight leash and getting regular twitter updates from their Primarch telling them where to fight and against whom.
- Loads of marines within the traitor legions remained loyalist, would make sense that the opposite would apply on occasion.
- It makes the story less dull!
Problem with the above: We don't really have a solid foundational argument for why Horus turned against the Emperor yet, turning the galaxy and everything that they had known on its head, so presumably those loyalist marines that did follow him were just doing it for kicks
reds8n wrote: I think there's some merit to the idea or process of serialisation.
I just don't think .. well don't feel would be more accurate here one supposes -- that this is the way to go about it.
It is exactly the sort of thing I think they should be publishing in White Dwarf, although presumably the monetary returns for that would be less than doing it this way ?
Yes I think the same way.. although presumably anyone who cared about content in WD stopped buying it many years ago. Now it would get a barely incomprehensible yell of 'murrr pictuuurres!' and a clawing at the pages of the magazine, before the pages are eaten and the remains thrown at the handler before they are dragged kicking in screaming back into their cell.
well, Pacific, i still love White Dwarf just as much as i did in the beginning...
my collection goes all the way back to #75...
i still get excited the week before it shows up, and love thumbing through each new issue...
i still subscribe, and don't see that changing anytime in the near future...
then again, i also like John Blanche, so i must be insane...
i'll just go back to my cell now...
cincydooley wrote: I really love Chris' writing, and I want to support him, but, for the first time for me with Black Library, I'm having trouble reconciling the pricing structure. [...] I'd have been willing to buy, say, a $20 "serial subscription" but a 200% markup is pretty tough for me to swallow.
As a fan of Chris Wraight myself, I have been considering the same question. It's pretty much just like with the MMPB deal; you will still be able to get the novel but you'll have to wait. Again, the model is premium price for folks who want to read it first.
I've not had a good read of this months white dwarf. However, it actually seems better than normal.
There's a fairly decent lengthed 'parade ground'
A painting guide that focuses on dinosaur markings for the new lizardmen.
Then a nice article about a Bretonian army.
I think people keep misinterpretting Roboute's actions. It's not that he was disloyal. It's that he felt that what he was going to do was for the greater good of the Imperium as a whole, even if it meant disagreeing with his father.
I didn't read the story myself, but from synopsises I saw, what the short story implies is that Roboute wrote the codex astartes BEFORE the Horus Heresy broke out. He wrote it because he suspected that there would be a chance Space Marines would turn traitor after the Great Crusade was over, and that there would be no place for them in a peaceful world, so he wanted to create a system where they could still fit in and where their power was limited in case of betrayal. The reason people think he's disloyal from this is because he has a conversation with an Ultramarine that "Other primarchs might declare us traitors and heretics for this, and we may even be hunted down, but we are doing what's right for the Imperium". However, he made that statement not out of personal disloyalty, but out of acknowledgement that the other primarchs will find his Codex Astartes to be a betrayal of the Imperium's values by breaking up the legions like that. And he was right. When he finally revealed the Codex Astartes, a lot of Primarchs were PISSED, and some of them really did think he was betraying them. Of course, by that point, the Horus Heresy had already broken out and Guilliman had more of a leg to stand on. When he first wrote the codex, however, he thought he would have to reveal it upon successful conclusion of the Great Crusade and was worried that the othe Primarchs would try to expel him for it. That just didn't come about thanks to the Horus Heresy.
Whether or not you still think he's disloyal due to wanting to revamp the Imperium post-Great Crusade is your choice. But it's a far cry from the "Roboute was planning to overthrow the Emperor!!!!" misinterpretation that a lot of people think this short story represented.
At least, that's the impression I got from various synopsises of the story.
Sanguinus is "perfect" in many ways. He's meant to be the pure holy angel that's both smart and nice. Note, however, that he isn't really a Mary Sue because in the end, despite all his goodness, he failed (to prevent the Horus Heresy, etc). And he died.
His Death really follows the "Too good for this sinful earth" trope. Warhammer is grimdark so it helps hammer that point home that the only primarch with no in-universe legend of his return is the one who was the most pure and good. His death along with his goodness is symbollic of all that the Imperium lost.
Not that the other loyalist primarchs weren't good guys. It's just that Sanguinus really REALLY fell into the "Wow, what a nice guy!" category.
As an aside, I suspect that's also why the Black Rage is called "The Flaw". Calling it "the flaw" is akin to saying "Sanguinus was perfect... except for one flaw." At least, that's what I suspect is the in-universe (and probably out-of-universe) reason why it's called the flaw. Everyone in-universe (and perhaps out of universe) really can't find much wrong with Sanguinus. hence the one thing that was wrong with him gets referred to as "The flaw".
Compel wrote: I've not had a good read of this months white dwarf. However, it actually seems better than normal.
There's a fairly decent lengthed 'parade ground'
A painting guide that focuses on dinosaur markings for the new lizardmen.
Then a nice article about a Bretonian army.
Yes but the standard bearer article goes on about how great it is all terrain is now citadel(tm) terrain(tm) and how all games are played on citadel(tm) realm of battle(tm) boards and implies anything else would look crap.
Anyway, I think it is the overall 'feeling' from that story with the teased theme of UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE (along with that artwork!) that is taking the shine off of the Ultras, a bit.
Pacific wrote: Problem with the above: We don't really have a solid foundational argument for why Horus turned against the Emperor yet, turning the galaxy and everything that they had known on its head, so presumably those loyalist marines that did follow him were just doing it for kicks
Which is a bit of a worry in itself really, I mean all these books written but no real foundation yet.
Right, quick question - in a brief moment of weakness, I seriously considered replacing my now uneven Heresy bookshelf(thanks for that BL, you gits) with the hardbacks...but I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere other than BL - are they seriously only selling these full-price via direct order/GW stores?
Paying £20 for a normal-length hardback novel in this day and age is laughable.
Yodhrin wrote: Right, quick question - in a brief moment of weakness, I seriously considered replacing my now uneven Heresy bookshelf(thanks for that BL, you gits) with the hardbacks...but I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere other than BL - are they seriously only selling these full-price via direct order/GW stores?
Paying £20 for a normal-length hardback novel in this day and age is laughable.
I believe so, I haven't been seen a hardback at my FLGS, but I see the TPB's as soon as they're out.
Yodhrin wrote: I seriously considered replacing my now uneven Heresy bookshelf with the hardbacks...but I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere other than BL
Sanguinus is "perfect" in many ways. He's meant to be the pure holy angel that's both smart and nice. Note, however, that he isn't really a Mary Sue because in the end, despite all his goodness, he failed (to prevent the Horus Heresy, etc). And he died.
His Death really follows the "Too good for this sinful earth" trope. Warhammer is grimdark so it helps hammer that point home that the only primarch with no in-universe legend of his return is the one who was the most pure and good. His death along with his goodness is symbollic of all that the Imperium lost.
Not that the other loyalist primarchs weren't good guys. It's just that Sanguinus really REALLY fell into the "Wow, what a nice guy!" category.
As an aside, I suspect that's also why the Black Rage is called "The Flaw". Calling it "the flaw" is akin to saying "Sanguinus was perfect... except for one flaw." At least, that's what I suspect is the in-universe (and probably out-of-universe) reason why it's called the flaw. Everyone in-universe (and perhaps out of universe) really can't find much wrong with Sanguinus. hence the one thing that was wrong with him gets referred to as "The flaw".
You're wrong in calling the flaw the Black Rage, the Rage is a consequence of his death, the flaw it is alluded to that he suffered from was the the Red Thirst, hence the close association of the Bangles with vampirism.
Couple that with the very obvious mutation of a ruddy great pair of wings, and apparent psychic ability which may well be similar to the Emperor's in that he can project the image of himself as he wishes you to see him, and it is easy to form an argument that he wasn't necessarily any more perfect than the other Primarchs, but just had better PR.
As I've mentioned, Horus obviously felt his brother was ripe to fall, if pushed in the right way, and the events in Fear To Tread show that he may well have been right.
Yodhrin wrote: Right, quick question - in a brief moment of weakness, I seriously considered replacing my now uneven Heresy bookshelf(thanks for that BL, you gits) with the hardbacks...but I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere other than BL - are they seriously only selling these full-price via direct order/GW stores?
Paying £20 for a normal-length hardback novel in this day and age is laughable.
Waterstones have been stocking them, in all 3 formats.
I meant the hardcovers ... They don't seem to be available from Waterstones online.
reds8n wrote: Only discount would if one bought a discounted-due-to-damage copy or had used points earnt on your savers card or somesuch
So far as I know, there is no retailer in the US (apart from GW itself) that sells HH hardcovers. Being able to use my B&N discount card would make me a lot more liable to buy the damn things.
FYI - I'm a huge Horus Heresy sucker and broke down and bought the first "chapter" of Scars, if only to see the content.
I haven't read it yet, but merely skimmed through it to see the 'actual' length. In the ePub version on standard size, it says it's 28 pages. In actuality, after all the filler disclaimers and extra blank pages BL throws in there, its really only about 16-17 pages text. This means, if the trend continues, that the book is going to be about 200 total pages, or just slightly longer than the typical novella length.
So, it would appear that it's not even a full length novel and fits more in line with the limited novellas they do; the big difference here is that you only get digital files, and you have to manage 12 file2 to get the whole story which, due to the lack of a 'serial subscription' service, means you're going to have to enter your CC information 12 times to get the whole overpriced shabang.
I'll let everyone know how that first section is, but I sincerely doubt I'll be buying any more. I'm also going to shoot an email/call to black library to see if those that purchase all 12 serial parts will be privy to a single file in 3 months when it's over.
Big ole facepalm here for me toward Black Library for this one.
Yodhrin wrote: I seriously considered replacing my now uneven Heresy bookshelf with the hardbacks...but I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere other than BL
Meanwhile, in Nottingham ...
We really, really need a photoshopped version of that picture with Kirby's face
Thanks for the info guys, looks like I'll be sticking with unevenness then.
Manchu wrote: FWIW Amazon clocks Scars at 416 TPB-sized pages.
So ... maybe the first chapter is just really short? In any case, have to agree with your assessment here.
Quite honestly, I barely trust BLs "page size" anymore; I noticed about a year or two ago they pulled the whole "high schooler with a page requirement" move and increased the font size and margins in their books. I think they did it when they started the Space Marine Battles series. I mean, the 416 makes me feel a "little" better, but only a little.
Like I said, I did get the first chapter, so I'll do a mini review once I read through it.
I also picked up the Censure audiobook, because I hate spending more than $5 on my card when I make a purchase, so I'm probably a sucker in that regard, too.
I'll try to post a mini review for that as well before the busy mess that will be cramming 5 days of work into two business days prior to GenCon next week.
cincydooley wrote: I noticed about a year or two ago they pulled the whole "high schooler with a page requirement" move and increased the font size and margins in their books. I think they did it when they started the Space Marine Battles series.
That sounds right to me. I held off buying any SMB novels for a while because ... they're just so ridiculously formatted. Some of them are quite good reads, however. I'm looking forward to the upcoming one, that apparently details GW's recent marketing practices. In all seriousness, I liked Siege of Castellax and really loved Legion of the Damned.
I meant the hardcovers ... They don't seem to be available from Waterstones online.
reds8n wrote: Only discount would if one bought a discounted-due-to-damage copy or had used points earnt on your savers card or somesuch
So far as I know, there is no retailer in the US (apart from GW itself) that sells HH hardcovers. Being able to use my B&N discount card would make me a lot more liable to buy the damn things.
My local B&N had some of the hardcovers in stock early on. Ask your local store if they can special order it for you and if you can still use your card or discount coupons if they do special order it. The hardcovers just may not sell enough for the store to stock them.
It might be worth a call, just in case? I don't know how things have changed in the last few years, but unless BL just isn't sending their books to major distributors any more (which is unlikely if people are seeing the Hardcovers in other non-GW stores), then BL should have easy enough access to them in-store.
Damn. Direct only, eh? I can't see how making your products harder to find and buy could backfire. It's a good thing they don't allow their products to mingle with books in some kind of convenient book-browsing facility. Might attract the wrong sort of customers.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Damn. Direct only, eh? I can't see how making your products harder to find and buy could backfire. It's a good thing they don't allow their products to mingle with books in some kind of convenient book-browsing facility. Might attract the wrong sort of customers.
Do you guys still have a lot of bookstores in the UK? Its becoming harder and harder to find one near me in the US (the ones closest to me were all Borders).
We have one, large national chain that can be found in most medium size towns or larger, Waterstones, and a ubiquitous chain of newsagents that carry a fair percentage of books in their larger stores.
Proper independents are an endangered species though.
Pretty much the only UK book chain left is Waterstones.
Although, you could technically call "WH Smiths" one as well, but that's more a 'random stuff store that parents only visit to buy their kids stuff for back to school.'
Also Foyles.. fair few of those still around, although yes practically all of the independents have gone. Killer combination of sky-high rents/tax and Amazon.
Compel wrote:Pretty much the only UK book chain left is Waterstones.
Although, you could technically call "WH Smiths" one as well, but that's more a 'random stuff store that parents only visit to buy their kids stuff for back to school.'
azreal13 wrote:We have one, large national chain that can be found in most medium size towns or larger, Waterstones, and a ubiquitous chain of newsagents that carry a fair percentage of books in their larger stores.
Proper independents are an endangered species though.
Lords of Mars has gone up for sale on iBooks for $11.99...
i enjoyed the first one, so this one should be good...
the cover has the Black Templars in action...
off to read the first few chapters before passing out...
gotta get up early to surf...
Psh, no one reads these threads I just lurk for the pretty cover images and the arguments about book format.
And here I thought I was the only one that page down'ed through the thread once or twice a week for the book covers! With the switch to their current release format, I don't frankly buy the books anymore and have only read one or two during coffee excursions to the local store this year. In case a cover really does catch my eye, I don't want to catch any spoilers in the thread text.
Finished Seventh Retribution which overall was .... solid. Few cool moments and some nice characters/ideas and scenes, and it was quite ncie to actually read about the Fists actually kind of winning ( ... or do they dun dun duh ! ) for once instead of being a punchbag.
with only the last tale to go. Which was previously released as an audio book ( which I enjoyed, although Slayer of the Storm God was better, best audio book they've done IMO).
Whilst tales 2 and 3 have both been enjoyable enough -- the 2nd one especially having some cool ideas in it -- for my money Mr. Reynolds' story is the best by a clear mile.
Good to hear about the IF. I just started Ahriman in Exile and it's the exact opposite regarding the eponymous sorcerer. I suspect John French purposefully does this to frustrate the reader so that when Ahriman finally lets loose it's all the more awesome. Only ~60 pages in but the writing is pretty good with flashes of brilliance. For example, Ahriman is described thusly "now he was only a shadow cast by the light of his memory." Very nice.
Manchu wrote: Good to hear about the IF. I just started Ahriman in Exile and it's the exact opposite regarding the eponymous sorcerer. I suspect John French purposefully does this to frustrate the reader so that when Ahriman finally lets loose it's all the more awesome. Only ~60 pages in but the writing is pretty good with flashes of brilliance. For example, Ahriman is described thusly "now he was only a shadow cast by the light of his memory." Very nice.
that is a pretty cool line. Does the book link up in anyway with the czevak novel atlas infernal? I always wanted a sequel to that.
Manchu wrote: Good to hear about the IF. I just started Ahriman in Exile and it's the exact opposite regarding the eponymous sorcerer. I suspect John French purposefully does this to frustrate the reader so that when Ahriman finally lets loose it's all the more awesome. Only ~60 pages in but the writing is pretty good with flashes of brilliance. For example, Ahriman is described thusly "now he was only a shadow cast by the light of his memory." Very nice.
that is a pretty cool line. Does the book link up in anyway with the czevak novel atlas infernal? I always wanted a sequel to that.
No.
... ..hmmm.. not too much of a spoiler but this story/book is set somewhat earlier than the Czevak novel.
IIRC the author was quite keen to revisit Czevak in the future if given the chance.
reds8n wrote: not too much of a spoiler but this story/book is set somewhat earlier than the Czevak novel
I have no idea how early/late Czevak is set but I have the impression that Ahriman In Exile is quite early on, just comparing the character presented in the beginning of the novel with his entry in the Codex.
I never liked Atlas: Infernal. It was pretty much, "I want to write a Dr Who story in the 40k universe."
I wasn't a fan of Slayer of the Storm God or Orcslayer either, actually. They both had the same sort of sense to them, tying back to Atlas Infernal. Except this time it was, "I want to write a Cthulhu/Lovecraft story in warhammer fantasy."
In cheerier news, I recently finished reading Gav Thorpes 'Path of the Outcast.'
Truth is, I only read it out of a feeling of obligation, since 'Path of the Seer' was as boring as a boring thing. However, it was MUCH better than the previous 2 books. You see a lot of Eldar socierty outwith the codices, with a great insight into the life of Eldar Pirates and their relationships between the Craftworld and the Dark Eldar.
The idea for the "Path of the Craftworld Eldar" stories originally seemed to be telling the same story from 3 different points of view. A bit like the 'Vantage Point' film.
So, Path of the Warrior was fine, fairly implausible at parts (Dreamer > Poet > Warrior > Exarch in a year or so and a total of 2 battles), but it gave you a good run through of the life of an Eldar warrior.
Path of the Seer basically just blurred into Warrior, it literally felt as if I was reading the exact same story again. Completely forgettable and fortunately, due to the nature of the story. Completely skippable.
Path of the Outcast fixed the forebearers mistakes. The story from the previous 2 novels are effectively bookends, or a framing story. About 80% of the book feels completely new. Worth reading if you want to know more about the Eldar.
Well, yeah, I guess. I'm not that huge a fan of Dr Who style stories myself. In my mind, "pull something out of your rear end" is not a satisfactory way to extract characters from a dangerous situation.
And then, go on to do it for a further umpteen times per story.
The Chekhovs Gun trope exists for a perfectly good reason, consarnit!
reds8n wrote: not too much of a spoiler but this story/book is set somewhat earlier than the Czevak novel
I have no idea how early/late Czevak is set but I have the impression that Ahriman In Exile is quite early on, just comparing the character presented in the beginning of the novel with his entry in the Codex.
I'll provide a brief synopsis of the story:
Marine A: Why are you doing that?
Ahriman: I can't tell you (X-Files music in the background)
Marine A: OK, I'll follow you and come to do what you're doing anyway.
Marine B: Hmm.. I know we are no longer loyalist marines, but I don't really think of myself as evil. Do we really need to be: eating these brains/helping our mate get possessed by a daemon/killing innocents?
Marine A: Sure you can't tell us why we are doing this?
Ahriman: Nope
Marine A & B: Oh well *shrug* nothing better to do!
Amazon just recommended something called "Honour Imperialis" by ADB, Rob Sanders and Steve Lyons, 880 pages supposedly due May next year in paperback. No other details though..any ideas?
azreal13 wrote: You're wrong in calling the flaw the Black Rage, the Rage is a consequence of his death, the flaw it is alluded to that he suffered from was the the Red Thirst, hence the close association of the Bangles with vampirism.
Couple that with the very obvious mutation of a ruddy great pair of wings, and apparent psychic ability which may well be similar to the Emperor's in that he can project the image of himself as he wishes you to see him, and it is easy to form an argument that he wasn't necessarily any more perfect than the other Primarchs, but just had better PR.
As I've mentioned, Horus obviously felt his brother was ripe to fall, if pushed in the right way, and the events in Fear To Tread show that he may well have been right.
Fear to Tread depicts Horus specifically demanding that Erebus kill Sanguinus rather than attempt to turn him, out of a belief that, of all the Primarchs, Sanguinus' was the least likely to be turned away from the Emperor.
So... nah. He really was just "the gak." As far as him having the ability to latent wow people into thinking he's great- well, that wouldn't work on a Primarch. They're more or less immune to even the Emperor's psychic charms. So, it's telling that Sanguinus is considered mackdaddy supreme below Horus among the Primarchs.
Death of Integrity, by Guy Haley, is up on the iBooks store...
it's a Space Marine Battles novel for $7.99...
Blood Drinkers, Novamarines, and Mechanicus on a Space Hulk...
i was very impressed with Baneblade, and even more impressed with Skarsnik (and Fantasy definitely comes 2nd to 40K for me, usually)...
just downloaded the new one, and i'm really looking forward to reading it...
Eusebius wrote: Amazon just recommended something called "Honour Imperialis" by ADB, Rob Sanders and Steve Lyons, 880 pages supposedly due May next year in paperback. No other details though..any ideas?
I checked the page, it said: Omnibus of three novels featuring the Imperial Guard - Dead Men Walking, Cadian Blood, and Redemption Corps.
Compel wrote: Well, yeah, I guess. I'm not that huge a fan of Dr Who style stories myself. In my mind, "pull something out of your rear end" is not a satisfactory way to extract characters from a dangerous situation.
And then, go on to do it for a further umpteen times per story.
The Chekhovs Gun trope exists for a perfectly good reason, consarnit!
Yeah it did have a lot of that. I thought the overall basis was nice, the ship, the gates and
Spoiler:
killing that giant deamon with the void fetus thing.
It could definitely use a lot less "sonic screwdriver gets us out of the problem" stuff. The short story published in one of the black library games day booklets was kind of cool. He stumbles across a genestealer cult on a demonworld. Could have been the setup of an entire book, I thought the premise was very novel
It's a while since I've checked this thread in detail, so I may have missed the answer to this question and I'm sorry if that's the case. For the sake of speed and ease though, it's Kitch's question time.
I've just seen this "new" Space Marines: Omnibus advertised and wanted to know if anyone has any info on which chapters are represented? I'm crossing my fingers that there'll be some Sons of Orar & Scythes of the Emperor in there! The cover lists SW, BA, IF, BT, Sallies, UM and Deathwatch, and clearly there'll be Howling Griffons in there judging by the cover.
That's three fairly long books in themselves, and its a long time since I read them.
I'm fairly sure neither chapter you mention by name gets any attention, think there's some of Sarah Caldwell's Silver Skull stuff, otherwise its as stated on the cover AFAICR
We know you shouldn’t choose favourites from your children, but this week’s Munitorum eBook is our pick of the bunch so far.
The ork race could never be accused of being unimaginative when it comes to weapons of war, boasting as it does gravity inverting rays, and weapons that use the smaller greenskin sub-species as munitions. There is, however, one weapon delivery system that has become infamous with the enemies of the orks, and a firm favourite with Tankbustas everywhere. We refer of course, to the Bomb Squig.
For the first time, you can find out all about these violent and enthusiastic creatures, and their use
in the Ork way of war in Munitorum: Bomb Squigs.
Also out this week, two very different Space Marine heroes.
Index Astartes: Lone Wolves is the first instalment in our weekly Space Marines series to focus on the Wolves of Fenris. Space Wolves history is full of great sagas about these solitary warriors, seeking glory or death at the hands of the mightiest foe they can find. This eBook explores the origins of the Lone Wolves, from the dark days of the Horus Heresy, when the first of their kind fought alongside Russ himself, as well as other famous Lone Wolves from the more recent history of the Chapter.
Speaking of seeking death at the hands of some warp-spawned horror, they don’t come much more warp-spawned than this guy. Lucius The Eternal is the latest hero(see also – villain) to star in the Warlords of the Dark Millennium series. The eBook contains brand new background on the favoured of the Dark Prince, as well as new annotated artwork of his weapons and armour.
It’s usually best for sanity’s sake, not to examine in too much detail, the artefacts of a former Emperor’s Children Captain, but if you’ve ever wanted to know more about Lucius’s elegant power sword, or how he acquired his wickedly sentient whip, it’s all in there. There are also full rules for using Lucius in your games of Warhammer 40,000. (image)
Haven't read any myself but followed a few threads here and there with interest.
the following, courtesy of Mr. ( I assume, apologies otherwise) Sandlemad from Warseer is... well ... you'll see
Spoiler:
1
2
3
Malcador to Dorn
You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.
and later on ..
Rogal Dorn, Malcador and Constantin Valdor discuss the war. Dorn is concerned about the war in the webway, saying that it's like building a fortress on a foundation of madness.
They speculate on what primarchs they can trust to come to Terra. Dorn knows the Lion is doing his own thing and won't answer. Russ is where Valdor left him after Prospero, so Dorn is hoping on him getting through.
The Khan though, Dorn admits he never knew him and Malcador says he was meant to be Dorn's opposite, an uncertainty where Dorn was certain. They discuss Nikaea and reluctantly conclude that the Khan was always closest to Horus and Magnus, which Valdor holds against him. They decide to summon him to Terra and think that having Russ and the Khan at Dorn's side would make Horus think twice.
Ilya, the Munitorum general, is playing go with the Khan. He's surprisingly casual and makes an interesting comparison between regicide and go: in regicide, there's one trajectory, to kill the emperor. In go, there are many targets and threats to watch for, and you can retreat and start again. Ilya notes a certain defensiveness in him and thinks that the Scars have a quiet need to show they're not barbarians.
Nikaea comes up again and the Khan makes a nice remark about how the judgement makes no difference to him or what he does, but he'd rather his straight-laced brothers were spared a difficult choice.
Shiban brings the bodies of the dead Scars on Phemus to his apothecary and has them identified as being killed by other marines. Something's up, which is indeed clearer having read The Serpent Beneath, thank you Nineswords!
Bjorn is getting his ship ready to face the Alpha Legion. He feels there's something strange about them turning, unlike the obvious examples of the World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Death Guard. The Wolves definitely seem to have been seriously mauled at Prospero in terms of numbers. Also, for all that they're supposed to be (highly contested) executioners, Bjorn still wonders if killing other marines will get any easier.
Yesugei is leaving Chogoris and definitely knows something is seriously wrong with the warp.
Finally, Torghun and some 30-40 other khans gather at the orders of their noyan-khan, who seems to be a Lord Commander or Chapter Master. He informs them that the Great Crusade has been thrown into to turmoil, that a primarch has turned on the imperium, destroyed an innocent world, and killed one of his brothers. It falls to them to go after the treacherous Leman Russ and destroy him. Well played, Alpharius.
Blimey eh ?
Looking forwards to a physical copy of this mroe and more !
.
.. wonder if this is, perhaps, a hint from the forthcoming codex.
