Shame it's on kickstarter as I'd prefer to pick it up from a LGS so i can take a closer look first
I'll probably back it though as I'm such as fan of Aliens anyway. I hope they do it justice and will be able to get it into real shops eventually. I'm surprised not to see Warzone going into any shops yet as I overheard at the colours show one of the distributors wanted to stock it and put it into LGS across the country. Hopefully it'll all work out eventually and we can see it at the LGS / clubs.
Looking forward to getting the Marines and Aliens done along with a suitable "colony" game-board as that's something I've always fancied doing but never had the justification ...now I might just get round to it
SoulDrinker wrote: Shame it's on kickstarter as I'd prefer to pick it up from a LGS so i can take a closer look first
I'll probably back it though as I'm such as fan of Aliens anyway. I hope they do it justice and will be able to get it into real shops eventually. I'm surprised not to see Warzone going into any shops yet as I overheard at the colours show one of the distributors wanted to stock it and put it into LGS across the country. Hopefully it'll all work out eventually and we can see it at the LGS / clubs.
Looking forward to getting the Marines and Aliens done along with a suitable "colony" game-board as that's something I've always fancied doing but never had the justification ...now I might just get round to it
I'm not too surprised about them not being in stores with warzone. My lgs closest to me hates kickstarters. They don't carry most of the KS games, unless its a ks that had a Retailer special. Another local store has gotten the bones KS, and has dreadball, but has skipped everything else.
I understand he logic of the KS, but it really does take cash out of the lgs hands. Can't say I blame the lgs for not supporting games that don't return the favor.
azreal13 wrote: Don't we have a dec 2013 release confirmed as well though?
So this is going to be a quick turnaround if both KS and Dec release are true!
It takes Amazon 2 weeks to provide full backer information and payment after completion of a kickstarter so I cannot see anyway they can get the product out this year. I suspect the December 2013 release date is for the kickstarter launching rather then the actual game.
You've got the KS cut to consider too (isn't it like 10%?). That's cash that's leaving the industry.
I think KS has a place in the general ecosystem, but it does seem to be becoming the de facto solution for products that don't at first glance seem to *need* it.
Guys lets not have the whole kick starter debate again as it seems to happen in almost every thread and has been answered more times then I can count. If stores want to carry this great almost unknown product they will and if not then they won't.
yeah,
I wonder if December is a good month for launching a KS?
During x-mas most people stretch their budget to the max, will they stretch that bit more to include a KS and back a project that delivers in 2014?
I am still waiting for stuff from the last two kickstarters that I took part in, I am not willing to get involved with another one just yet, even if this stuff does look amazing.
Well, never mind, fingers crossed they will get a normal release eventually.
It is possible to let a KS project run for just 20 days. IF they'd start it this week, it could be over at the end of this month. IF they also have everything ready and use this primarely as a pre-order, they COULD be able to send stuff out in december.
They really should wait instead of doing the campaign in the middle of the xmas shopping season when people need money for gifts. If you can't launch a campaign by the end of October, you should wait till around February to get the best results, when people in the US start getting tax return money that they need to blow on stuff
If they launch it in December I probably won't be able to back it. Oh well :(
Concerning the Dec release rob_aldermann said the following on LAM Forum:
"Release means full announcement of contents and of the release date, with detailed pictures and prices.
This is still a great IP with some awesome minis, let us not get bogged down in the fact everything is not to everyone's personal liking with regard to launch!!
BrookM wrote: feth, did not hope that this would be a KS, as that will mean it won't be out as soon as hoped, nor as soon found in my FLGS.
Also, that pic went with the KS announcement.
When I compare the xeno renders with these, they really don't stack up. These mins have a massive amount of detail which the xeno sculpts are lacking in. It's a real shame.
azreal13 wrote: let us not get bogged down in the fact everything is not to everyone's personal liking
Would you please can the thought police act? To put it politely, there have been some very mixed messages and it's reasonable to express concern/disappointment. if nothing else, I hope Prodos takes this as feedback regarding not screwing around with customer expectations. (It's a recurring theme with these smaller companies, especially in the crowd-funding context.) Furthermore, famous IP + small company + Kickstarter = lots of problems, most of which come down to overconfident little companies making promises that they cannot keep or, in the best cases, cannot keep on time. Having communications issues before the KS even begins does not build confidence.
No thought police here, just an attempt to try and gee people up and get them excited by the big picture, rather than get bogged down in whinging about the minutiae!
I apologise, I'll leave you to wallow in your negativity.
BrookM wrote: feth, did not hope that this would be a KS, as that will mean it won't be out as soon as hoped, nor as soon found in my FLGS.
Also, that pic went with the KS announcement.
When I compare the xeno renders with these, they really don't stack up. These mins have a massive amount of detail which the xeno sculpts are lacking in. It's a real shame.
See that's perfectly fine by me though. I see it as the aliens are a horde army and don't need all the extra attention. If I want to personalize them, I can do that. The predators on the other hand need that extra detail as they are more of a character model. I don't know how the game is going to run if it's 1 predator vs. a bunch of marines or a bunch of aliens, or if it's a predator pack, either way I'd want my low model count army to look more customized than Drones. Give me a few different poses of the aliens, a couple various sculpts, and different "generations" and I'll be fine with them. I almost feel the same about the marines. Compared to the predators they are a horde army. Give us a few different poses of each weapon outfit, a couple female sculpts 2-3 and I'm Good.
Someone had previously mentioned about all the alien tails coming back over their heads like a scorpion. I was originally on the same page as them, but then realized that it's a good thing for the models. If the tails are going crazy everywhere it's hard to pack them tight on a board, much less to pack them safe in a case. This is one of those cases where rule of cool had to take a back seat to the functioning of the model.
I just hope that the game is good, as so far I am pleased with the models I've seen.
This is still a great IP with some awesome minis, let us not get bogged down in the fact everything is not to everyone's personal liking with regard to launch!!
I suppose I have been after these for years, so waiting a little longer may not actually be so bad, if only these bastards had not got me so excited !
azreal13 wrote: I apologise, I'll leave you to wallow in your negativity.
First off, trolling and flame baiting are not allowed on this site. Second, I have been posting a lot about my excitement and positive remarks ITT so your generalization is false in addition to insulting. Third, it's not your job to tell people what to feel or how to post about this topic.
When I compare the xeno renders with these, they really don't stack up. These mins have a massive amount of detail which the xeno sculpts are lacking in. It's a real shame.
They haven't done any beauty shots of the Aliens sculpts yet, so I wouldn't be sounding this particular alarm just yet. If you take the pictures from their convention posted a few pages ago and fuss with the levels in Photoshop, you will see details not shown in the unaltered photos. Not see them well, mind, but enough to know there is more there than we have had a peek at yet.
azreal13 wrote: I apologise, I'll leave you to wallow in your negativity.
First off, trolling and flame baiting are not allowed on this site. Second, I have been posting a lot about my excitement and positive remarks ITT so your generalization is false in addition to insulting. Third, it's not your job to tell people what to feel or how to post about this topic.
I was neither trolling or flame baiting. I have been reading this thread since the beginning, and it has constantly got sidetracked by people getting down, on what I felt, were fairly small and unimportant details.
I am curious how you found my "come on, this is still great, even if you didn't necessarily want a Kickstarter " toned post insulting?
Frankly, for a Mod, you've taken this very personally, very quickly, I'd expect better than this from a regular poster.
azreal13 wrote: Frankly, for a Mod, you've taken this very personally, very quickly, I'd expect better than this from a regular poster.
I have also read this thread from the beginning and I have seen you among others trivialize other posters' viewpoints as "getting sidetracked" etc. again and again. As a Mod, it's my role to tell you give it a rest.
azreal13 wrote: Frankly, for a Mod, you've taken this very personally, very quickly, I'd expect better than this from a regular poster.
I have also read this thread from the beginning and I have seen you among others trivialize other posters' viewpoints as "getting sidetracked" etc. again and again. As a Mod, it's my role to tell you give it a rest.
Just filter thread on my posts, I really can't see what you're targeting me for that others haven't said as well, more strongly or agreed with me. To jump all over what was genuinely intended as a positive post, which for some reason has clearly caught you wrong, is just a little unfair.
Hell, other mods have agreed with some of my posts, is isn't like I'm sailing close to the wind here.
So the "big news" that they delayed from Friday till today is that they'll have more news in December about the inevitable kickstarter? That's GW levels of disappointing and hubris. There are more accurate words to describe it but Manchu is already pulling double duty in this thread and I don't want him to have to red text my post.
warboss wrote: So the "big news" that they delayed from Friday till today is that they'll have more news in December about the inevitable kickstarter? That's GW levels of disappointing and hubris. There are more accurate words to describe it but Manchu is already pulling double duty in this thread and I don't want him to have to red text my post.
I am holding out hope that there is more information coming but if not, you can consider me frustrated a bit with Prodos.. I am not so sure that picture would of been difficult to post on Friday. The Predators in the picture however look great!
So, a Kickstarter coming in 1½ months, then the average 6-8 month wait for any product. Bah, Come back when you have a product to sell, instead of hype to flog.
Kroothawk wrote: Kickstarter will probably kill this game for retail distribution. Not good.
Maybe. But I feel like the name would have enough "Wow" value to pull people in at the stores, especially if it is boardgame-like and the retailers actively promote it.
Well it's half past five in the UK so I doubt that we'll be getting any more announcements from Prodos today. Really liked those Predators shown. Pretty disappointed about the Kickstarter news.
I wonder how getting the license for something and a kickstarter interacts, have we had examples of this before?
Manchu wrote: Kroot, can you extrapolate on that thought?
Well, small alternative tabletops have a small market. If a big share of it is satisfied by kickstarter, promising big discounts and exclusives, not much is left to justify retail distribution. It's like missing the first few months of sales of a new GW army.
Mantic (except Deadball boxes) was swept from the German market this way, Godslayer also didn't make it to a major distributor, with kickstarter people currently getting their stuff.
Some boardgames are able to finally make it, like Zombicide and Super Dungeon Explore crawling into the market now.
But ATM I can't think of a tabletop that made it after a kickstarter.
I was hoping for a regular release but now, unless they really got a good deal with reasonably shipping and cool gak, I'm going to sit this one out until whenever my FLGS can start selling these.
Kroothawk wrote: I can't think of a tabletop that made it after a kickstarter
KoW is doing okay, at least where I am, but I see your point. I am more concerned, however, about a small company getting swamped with money and despite representations of experience and confidence having to back track a la the recent RoboTech news from Palladium/Ninja Division. Warzone did well and seems to be coming along nicely. But AvP is BIG DEAL and will surely garner much more.
Kroothawk wrote: Kickstarter will probably kill this game for retail distribution. Not good.
I think it will be closer to Dreadball (or maybe even Bones) in terms of post-KS success, so long as Prodos can handle the logistics. This is one of the most popular IP's in Sci Fi, and the kickstarter will allow them to reach a wide market, fund many, many more units (or expansions) than they could otherwise, and possibly include a retailer level if they are smart.
If Prodos were just making a board game, then KS might hurt FLGS sales. If they make lots of units and add ons, then there will be plenty of people who want to expand their forces when it goes retail, or people who didn't have the funds for KS, or people who were gunshy about pledging, etc. If the KS creates a more full line of products and a lot of word of mouth, then the game will do very well for FLGSs.
I'm gobsmacked; actually agreeing with Bob is a rare experience
Don't forget how popular this IP (apparently, I had to be told ) is.
Add to that how much of a niche market KS still is, and how little it actually targets the somewhat more 'casual' wargaming market; with an IP that will have a huge draw, just to buy a retail unit box or two, I really can't see this *not* hitting any FLGS that remotely knows what's good for them
KoW and On the Lamb had years without a kickstarter, before they made a revised rulebook as a kickstarter.
All three games have no presence in Germany, never met anyone playing these.
Warzone not yet available.
I've seen that trend, too, though- Dropzone Commander made a traditional launch just as the Kickstarter frenzy hit, and they're in retail stores and doing fairly well.
I haven't seen the same for most kickstarted games... they seem to have a huge boom at the beginning, but excitement wears off by the time they ship.
Relic Knights is an example of something that would've been huge at retail, but by the time it delivers it will have lost all momentum :-/
Good points, RiTides. One explanation is that KS allows projects that would not otherwise get made because they'd have trouble surviving in retail. A proper AvP game probably would not fall into that category. KS seems a poor fit for the franchise even if it might be a good fit for the company. And maybe that shows a misalignment between the IP and the company.
Germany's one of the biggest games markets in the world though - it's the heart of the worldwide board gaming industry. Essen Spiel has something like 5 times the attendees of Gen-con. No game company with any sense would want to ignore Germany. If a game fails there, its unlikely to succeed elsewhere.
Best case scenario, they go a hybrid route- it sounded like they were ready for a traditional launch, so perhaps they can get the "base game" out and in to stores quickly (if it's already made, or being made) and then use the crowdfunding to accelerate future releases.
It would be better than going the pure KS route, at any rate! I am starting to think that campaigns that are ready to deliver on their core, and just use the platform to expand more quickly, will do better than ones with a year+ wait where nothing can be sold in the interim.
KoW and On the Lamb had years without a kickstarter, before they made a revised rulebook as a kickstarter.
All three games have no presence in Germany, never met anyone playing these.
Warzone not yet available.
Distributors didn't feel like talking to us before Kickstarter, nothing has changed. TBH, unless it's a game made by someone with a name don't count on it being in distro either way. Espically a minis game or RPG.
I don't have any personal experience with those games but I'd be hesitant to say they "made it" since I've never seen anyone talking about the games on forums outside of dakka (which is IIRC both their official forums) or mention them in person let alone actually playing them. YMMV depending on the definition of "making it" (fun game, turning a profit even if small, exclusively supporting the creator without a need for another job, making the ICV2 top 5, etc).
Manchu wrote:
Kroothawk wrote: I can't think of a tabletop that made it after a kickstarter
KoW is doing okay, at least where I am, but I see your point.
KOW though existing long before the kickstarter and was already in a fair amount of stores as the premium mantic "not GW" line.
edit: Ninja'd by the creator of one of the games mentioned above.
Distributors didn't feel like talking to us before Kickstarter, nothing has changed. TBH, unless it's a game made by someone with a name don't count on it being in distro either way. Espically a minis game or RPG.
More or less, this. Gaming is niche. Most B&M stores don't even stock a fraction of what is available unless it is made by WotC, Paizo, GW or Privateer Press (or is a boardgame). Those pay the bills. Stuff like Infinity, Dystopian Wars, Malifaux or any other of the online darlings have a pretty low density of players (especially moving in to North America where we have a lot of low pop-density areas).
It doesn't really matter if something was launched via some more traditional route or KS. The only difference is that KS tends to be more visible and so when the usual interest drop-off occurs post-release, our confirmation bias kicks in when we stop noticing it being the talk of the town. But just like any other game in the industry it will likely keep chugging along whether you are actively looking or not (unless it dies off, a fate that both KS and non-KS games can share).
Some KS-based stuff goes on to see distribution fairly widely (still gobsmacked to see Zombicide, Sedition Wars and Dreadball at my LGS... as I said, they never seem to stock much outside of the bread-winning quartet; though I think all of those being board-game based is a bit reason). But most will have their big (relatively speaking depending on the game) splash and then fall off the radar for anyone not looking directly at it. In the end I have yet to see any direct evidence that the interest drop-off post KS is any worse than that seen for any other game not done via a Kickstarter.
Bottom line is, the LGS is a not a great representation of any kind of global market, nor is any other anecdotal "well I've never heard of anyone playing X" stuff. All games in the hobby (outside of a few) are niche as all hell, but continue on doing what they do whether you are actively looking at them or not. Considering all this, making any claim as to how Kickstarter effects the success of a game compared to a non-KS game is all kinds of pointless. In the end, KS stuff is simply more visible from the outset and through the whole process, so when it inevitably slips off the radar of those who aren't playing it they remember it more clearly than when generic, traditionally launched game Y does the exact same thing.
If this KS gets out on major news sites, this could easily be multiple millions of dollars.
What'll happen is the "Kickstarter effect" - felt by Mantic and Palladium and many others - where the promises of new kits created by stretch goals equals a sacrifice in quality to make delivery (Mantic - Kings of War) or a sacrifice in delivery date to make the sheer number of new sculpts (Palladium - Robotech).
What I don't want to see is a KS with a delivery date of a year or more.
Because of the boutique level quality of the miniatures I was really hoping for a phased release. First set with x number of sculpts, $y. In two months, another round of sculpts. Traditional stuff. So I could get a few models at a time and paint them wonderfully.
But with the KS route we're looking at a small company trying to handle a huge license and conceivably one of the biggest Kickstarters. That means delays, straight up... how many months of shipping hundreds of packages per day did it take Reaper to finish Bones I? Five, Six months?
I'm still optimistic, but I'm not expecting now to have any of these minis til next Christmas 2014.
RiTides wrote: Best case scenario, they go a hybrid route- it sounded like they were ready for a traditional launch, so perhaps they can get the "base game" out and in to stores quickly (if it's already made, or being made) and then use the crowdfunding to accelerate future releases.
This IS what they're doing, I'm surprised that people have complained for 2 pages instead of posting this information from the Facebook comments. While it would have been nice for them to address this more directly, here's some relevant info:
Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game wrote:Yes, it will be available through "normal" channels, the KS version is labelled as a "Special Edition", more info to come.
Like · Reply · 5 · 4 hours ago
Any chance you will be doing clear plastic/resin for cloacked predators??
Like · Reply · 4 · 6 hours ago
Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game wrote: yes
Like · 23 · 6 hours ago
Also, I don't think anyone reposted the Predator pictures so I'll do so as well:
We've had the picture already but didn't notice the comment replies. Thanks!
I think this is more proof that communication isn't this company's strong suit - why use nested comment replies to give out important info? Why haven't they updated the first post here? Etc.
have just been speaking to one of the fantastic guys over at Prodos Games who has kindly provided us with some extra information regarding the upcoming Aliens vs Predator – The Miniature Game:
The game will be story driven. It is set between Alien and Aliens and takes inspiration primarily from the Alien and Predator films as opposed to the crossovers.
The initial release will be with a boxset ala Space Hulk. The initial boxset release will be before the end of 2013 with an initial expansion wave of up to a dozen new models planned for early 2014.
Prodos will be drawing in elements from the expanded universe so there will be plenty of different Alien/Predator/Colonial Marines/Civilian variants. Look out of an Alien from the old AvP Arcade Game!
The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
The game will support solo and multiplayer games. The initial boxset will come with a board for more contained focused play but there is also potential for further open combat.
There will be unique “hero” units.
The license does not include Prometheus.
Prodos will be showing off the game at various game conventions as well as a potential inaugural event to celebrate the release.
28102013_01
Prodos will also be releasing more information (including the price) via their Facebook page over the next 5 or 6 days so keep an eye out. Be sure to Like them and post any questions you have up there. Alternatively please post any questions or comment on our message boards and I’ll be sure to relay them onto Prodos.
Prodos will also be hosting a special event to launch Warzone Resurrection. Those interested in the upcoming AvP game may find this interesting to get a chance to meet the guys over at Prodos, get a feel for their products and the gameplay system AvP will be using.
And besides, KS or not it's AvP and its a miniature game - This means its about having fun, that's its job and its cool...../
That was posted and discussed pages back when it was initially published. We're at the end or even past the "5 or 6 days" it mentions. No harm no foul though.
BrookM wrote: So, this will still be "released" before the end of the year then?
It looks like Prodos was either misquoted or gave out misinformation. They have since said it will not be released by the end of the year. I think it is on an earlier page.
Oh by the way, I noticed something about the Predator picture - there's Predator symbols running below it. Now at first I thought this was just decorative (like the Xenomorph blood on the Alien pictures), but then I remembered the "Hunt the Predator" promotion that was being run at Comic-Con this year. I tracked down that decoder but found that there were different symbols. However, there is another Predator font which the Prodos guys are definitely using, which translates the message to "COMING SOON ON KICKSTARTER". Of course, this isn't new info, but this little revelation could give us new insight in the future...
Interesting. I'd be okay with snagging a base box set (if I can justify the cost) to get things started (Predator, couple of marines, more Aliens, or at least that's the vague ratio I'm assuming we'll see) with the KS helping fund expansions/special editions/limited promotions/etc.
Retailers get to draw people in with the box set, KS gets some bonus funding flowing to expand the lineup and effectively does a little market research at the same time, 2014 is filled with the results. Seems pretty reasonable if that remotely resembles how things may go down in the coming months.
Disappointed that this is a Kickstarter, although something that had to kind of be expected. The only good thing about these Kickstarters is that for those of us who have backed a lot of them now start to get ones from 12-18 months ago trickle through as you are pledging on this one
Those Predator sculpts look bloody awesome though.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Oh by the way, I noticed something about the Predator picture - there's Predator symbols running below it. Now at first I thought this was just decorative (like the Xenomorph blood on the Alien pictures), but then I remembered the "Hunt the Predator" promotion that was being run at Comic-Con this year. I tracked down that decoder but found that there were different symbols. However, there is another Predator font which the Prodos guys are definitely using, which translates the message to "COMING SOON ON KICKSTARTER". Of course, this isn't new info, but this little revelation could give us new insight in the future...
I have a personal rule against kickstarters because I know I'll go overboard and end up maxing out a credit card or something.
But an AvP kickstarter is something I think I'll have to get on, if the bonuses are worth it. If we get something like additional Colonial Marines based on the movies or something, I'd have to jump on it. Like, no question.
Surprised to see so many against it being a KS. KS has been great for bringing new stuff to tabletop, and we get much greater value out of it than we do a retail release.
There was talk of tabletop KS dying at retail release, but Dreadball quite a while ago already had 3/4 of it's sales through retail after its very successful KS. Dreamforge Games plastics also seem to be doing well at retail, they're stocked at many places.
AvP being a KS hopefully means the company will be beholden to us than some third party investor only out for money. They still have to deal with the license requirements, but I'm very happy they won't have an investor to please too. Much more likely to be responsive to our feedback. Will have to look into their old KS(s) though to see what the score is with them though.
Yonan wrote: Surprised to see so many against it being a KS. KS has been great for bringing new stuff to tabletop, and we get much greater value out of it than we do a retail release.
Agreed, I've been flabergasted at this thread for the past 20 pages or so. First all the complaints that the initial alien was too Bio and not enough Mechanical, now this sudden uproar over it being a Kickstarter.
Really? I mean, REALLY?! Of COURSE it's a kickstarter! How could people be even one single bit surprised about that? AvP: a new game by Prodos. Prodos: a new company who's first and only game is a very successful KS. A very successful KS that's timed to finish production right about now. Right about now is when all the info for AvP is being hinted at and teased, with actual hard info to hit...to hit...oh my god, it's gonna hit right after all the game pieces from the first KS are finished! **Dun DUN DUN** Why, it's got all the twists and turns of a Shyamalan movie! What an emotional rollercoaster!
I, for one, am GLAD it's going to kickstarter. Assuming the company can keep close to their projected schedule, KS just makes stuff better. You may get less stuff immediately, but you'll get more of it at launch and it's a better, more complete product when it does finally release. I can't tell you how many great games I've gotten into that died for the sole reason of not having enough stuff out at launch followed by not getting new releases out fast enough to stay relevant and interesting. Look at Wyrd/Malifaux, it took them almost 3 years of releasing figures targeted at collectors/painters before they had a large enough catalog to justify making a miniatures game out of it. It took Infinity almost half a decade to release everything from just the first book, and I believe there's still certain model combos that aren't available. Then again, perhaps this SHOULD have just released through traditional means & it could have been just as successful as Avatars of War has been!
Board games even moreso, since ALL the production costs have to be paid for, up front, before the game is sent to the printers. More copies printed=less cost per game= cheaper retail price, but the company has to be real careful not to produce too many or they'll have ot pay to warehouse the extras, assuming they even have enough money to dump into the game initially. Look at what Dreadball became, and look at the original Dwarf King's hold and ponder this: without a KS then Dreadball would have been ust as crappily produced as DKH and still cost just as much at retail.
KS takes forever and inevitably suffers from further delays, but bottom line is IT JUST MAKES GAMES BETTER.
I said "close". A delay of a few months or so is pretty much KS standard operating procedure.
Honestly it's not one of the things I'm ever super concerned with when dealing with KS, it's just what happens. I know a lot of people get up in arms about missing projected deadlines, but as long as it's not an extra year and the company is transparent as to why the delays are occuring it's not an issue. i think Prodos handled the first KS pretty well in that regards: late but well informed as to why and new timeframes.
I'm just bemused by the people acting like they were blindsided by the KS announcement, you guys must be REALLY bad at Clue!
I would prefer a standard release, but I'm certainly not shocked to see a KS as that was sorta expected.
In addition to KS vs retailer issues I'd mentioned earlier in the thread; contributing to a KS during the holidays is probably going to be a complete no go for me. Holidays are always tight as there are a lot of expenses I don't have during the rest of the year. Choosing between stuff I likely won't see for a whole year vs buying to cover Christmas seems kinda hard to justify.
The length of arrival time for KS items I've found leeches a lot of the excitement out of the game for me as a lot of new stuff comes out between when you pledge and when stuff arrives. My stuff just finally showed up at the tail end of Oct. Waiting just really drained my interest, which was made worse due to delays and poor communication, which also occured with sedition wars. Honestly zombicide season 2 is probably my last kickstarter that I'll back, it's nice to help fund projects and help get new games made but I feel the experience has really started to dull and I'd rather spend my restricted holiday funds on stuff I don't have to wait ages for.
I was rabid for the first season and tore into the game the minute it arrived and I was super excited when I was pledging for season 2 but I haven't even opened the season 2 stuff as my interest simmered down to a "meh" level.
AVP is a big enough game that it should be able to make it through vendor channels just fine (regardless of the company size), when it does I'll get some at that point. I think the miniatures are great and I'd be completely on board with it if I could pick it up at my FLGS but I'm completely kickstarter-ed out.
paulson games wrote: The length of arrival time for KS items I've found leeches a lot of the excitement out of the game for me as a lot of new stuff coems out between when you pledge and when stuff arrives.
This is my largest problem with KS as well. Really my only problem with KS. I've had ones I was extremely excited for at the time but in a very different headspace for when they actually arrived, and even the best of them haven't matched the excitement I had checking in every day while the KS was running. None of the KS showing up at my door were as cool as the FLGS getting in a bunch of brand new boxes & blisters and having the whole shop frenzy on them all at once, playing game after game with models you opened and assembled a half hour before.
Still, I'd much rather have a full game, completely realized and with good production values, over all of that, even if it arrives at a time that's not the best. That frenzy I love so much also sucks REALLY bad when you get caught up in what turns out to be a terrible game, or a game destined to die a quick death from lack of variance. Then you're stuck with hundreds of dollars in models you can no longer use for games you no longer play and nobody is willing to buy from you.
On a note totally unrelated in any way, you people should totally buy my Monsterpocalypse stuff off me. And my AT-43. And my Confrontation. And my MtG cards, my WoW minis, my D&D figs, my Heavy Gear and Malifaux and Flames of War and Axis & Allies minis...I've got some Mechwarrior and Heroclix around here somewhere...
KS allows for hypothetical benefits but it also creates a substantial amount of uncertainty for potential backers, especially for those of us who have not had completely rosy experiences with the platform. Even relatively experienced and well-established companies can easily get in over their head. The gravity of this IP drives reasonable concern on that front. There is also reasonable concern regarding communication, an essential aspect of any successful KS. While Warzone backers seem in the main pleased, that project was fairly contained compared to what the AvP brand might generate.
One reason that folks ITT feel "blindsided," for example, is that diffuse communication led posters to believe the game would actually not be on KS. From what we have surmised more recently, it looks like that was half-right: a "standard" version of the game will come through traditional channels while another will available through KS. At least, that's where things apparently stand today; we'll have to see.
In any event, delays are a very serious concern. The more time that passes between spending money and seeing a return, the greater the likelihood of intervening problems -- and they can be catastrophic as anyone who has backed a good amount of projects can tell you -- that impair or even indefinitely delay delivery. Given what we know about this product (a self-contained, story-driven boxed set skirmish) there doesn't seem a need for crowd funding to get a huge line out quickly. So the idea of doing this with a KS seems to me to needlessly introduce risk.
overtyrant wrote: Nothing wrong if they run late with it. As the rest of Kalamadeas post says, it makes the game better.
I have to disagree there. Being late does not make a project better as far as I can tell.
I just want to say I agree with the people who said they are hoping that the kickstarter is launch after Christmas. Games and gears gaming boards ran from late nov, to the end of December, and that kickstarter did terrible because of it.
Arguably you could point to other things as being issues that contributed towards it failing, but IMHO the timing was the biggest nail in it's coffin. As it drew closer to Christmas they just couldn't keep any of their backers.
This whole KS thing has caused me to come out of lurking. Only ever posted once and was saving this moment to reveal a project here in the future. But I'm going to support AVP and wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page.
If everyone could shift their attention to Andilus Greatsword's post on pg. 32 (conveniently the last post on the page) and read it, I think all your fears will be alleviated.
I'm not sure who here has been keeping up but it seems a lot of people still think this whole thing will be on KS. It won't be. Only the special edition will be. Be sure to keep up with the info because Prodos doesn't update it efficiently.
Other than that, I'm incredibly excited for this. I might even get both the regular release and KS edition.
On a note totally unrelated in any way, you people should totally buy my Monsterpocalypse stuff off me. And my AT-43. And my Confrontation. And my MtG cards, my WoW minis, my D&D figs, my Heavy Gear and Malifaux and Flames of War and Axis & Allies minis...I've got some Mechwarrior and Heroclix around here somewhere...
Joyboozer wrote: How can you KS a product that also has a general release?
I imagine the idea is to have more figures in the Special Edition which is the one that is getting KS'd. Remember what they said, before the end of this year they'll release the regular box while next year they will release an expansion. But I believe that in order to get more miniatures out they will use the special edition KS to fund them.
So once the game becomes a proper skirmish game, the extra minis come out as separate kits. The expansion will include more miniatures as well. So we have the regular box set minis, the extra special edition minis and then the future expansion minis. I think this is the route they are going to take since it makes sense and for now leaves few people out in the cold, namely those who want the SE box but will have to wait a bit longer.
It's all conjecture until they confirm but I'd be happy anyway if they went that way.
Let's not get to far ahead of ourselves with the speculation. We only have tidbits to go on and part of that interview was misinterpreted, as clarified by Rob at Prodos and quoted a few pages back.
I will be very surprised if we do not see the Kickstarter by the end of this week.
BDJV wrote: Let's not get to far ahead of ourselves with the speculation. We only have tidbits to go on and part of that interview was misinterpreted, as clarified by Rob at Prodos and quoted a few pages back.
I will be very surprised if we do not see the Kickstarter by the end of this week.
Of course. I was just saying that there is a valid reason to KS the special edition while there's a general release as well.
Let it be clear, again, that as far as we know the KS is for a special edition while there will be a regular edition release.
Forar wrote: At 28mm scale, both would be... pretty big.
My Aliens Technical Manual seems to be MIA (moving twice in the last 9 months will do that), but a little google and some quick napkin math indicate the Dropship would be around 16 inches long.
I'm not terribly familiar with Warhammer, but a cursory googling indicates that this would be comparable to some pretty hefty models. It's only an assumption, but based on the novels, movies and comics I've read, it feels more like a skirmish level game rather than one of larger warfare, which generally means a smaller combat area.
Basically, I could see some form of outline 'terrain' piece for the APC, but the dropship would... a hell of a thing.
Put it in the centre of the table, throw down some barricades and fuel cans, boom, marines have to guard the ramps until lift off
Releasing a crappy version for retail and a cheaper cooler version with more exclusives at the same time for kickstarter doesn't sound good either. Both retail and kickstarter will lose that way. And both costomers will end disappointed.
It is damn time that Prodos gives some explicit info that he promised us for yesterday.
I'm not sure why they haven't, they've given us sweet FA to go on when it takes all of two minutes to post. It's good that they are demonstrating an inability to communicate at this early stage. How is the Warzone KS progressing for backers? Smoothly? Not so much?
badgermeister wrote: i'm sure theres good reason on intermittent press releases - it builds anticipation and suspense when it goes on KS - only 48 hours to go
I dunno, it's debatable. Personally I was having fun at first, and then the info dried up and my fun went soft. Intermittent press releases are OK but there should be some meat to them and they shouldn't be ambiguous/open to interpretation/clearly wrong (delete to taste)
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Oh by the way, I noticed something about the Predator picture - there's Predator symbols running below it. Now at first I thought this was just decorative (like the Xenomorph blood on the Alien pictures), but then I remembered the "Hunt the Predator" promotion that was being run at Comic-Con this year. I tracked down that decoder but found that there were different symbols. However, there is another Predator font which the Prodos guys are definitely using, which translates the message to "COMING SOON ON KICKSTARTER". Of course, this isn't new info, but this little revelation could give us new insight in the future...
Sorry if it has already been mentioned here but Produs have said that significant changes are going to happen to the pred-alien figure as the licence holders do not like it (I have only seen good feedback regarding the model on forums).
Perhaps they want to move away from the train wrecks that were the AVP films, specifically Requiem. I don't mind the Predalien look, but there were some amazing concept sketches done for that film that were missed out on.
Wasn't the Predalien in AVP:R some kind of Queen hybrid? As it could lay eggs directly into a host? (really stupid idea)
This is probably my favourite concept that sadly went unused. I think it blends the Alien and Predator subtly, giving dominance to the Alien aesthetic like the previous films.
Kickstarter creators and backers alike have been embracing this whole "better late than bad" which seems like a false dichotomy. Ideally, creators would pick a reasonable delivery target date and then, like, double it. Account for delays in advance and become heroes for delivering 'early'.
Instead, the active meme seems to all but reward unrealistic delivery dates. Why bother picking something sensible with contingency time in place when you can just tell backers "oh, totes 6 months" and if it goes to 9+, 'ooops', you've already got their money and nobody really reads comment walls past the project's completion.
Don't get me wrong, the KS community's understanding is admirable, to a degree, but the touting of delays as signs of excellence seems rather backwards to me.
There's a difference between 'one particular sculpt came back badly, had to redo it, retool, sorry it took a couple of extra weeks' and 'whelp, did we say 7 months? We meant 9. Maybe 10-11+. We'll see.
Forar wrote: Kickstarter creators and backers alike have been embracing this whole "better late than bad" which seems like a false dichotomy. Ideally, creators would pick a reasonable delivery target date and then, like, double it. Account for delays in advance and become heroes for delivering 'early'.
Instead, the active meme seems to all but reward unrealistic delivery dates. Why bother picking something sensible with contingency time in place when you can just tell backers "oh, totes 6 months" and if it goes to 9+, 'ooops', you've already got their money and nobody really reads comment walls past the project's completion.
Don't get me wrong, the KS community's understanding is admirable, to a degree, but the touting of delays as signs of excellence seems rather backwards to me.
There's a difference between 'one particular sculpt came back badly, had to redo it, retool, sorry it took a couple of extra weeks' and 'whelp, did we say 7 months? We meant 9. Maybe 10-11+. We'll see.
Warboss knows who I'm talking about.
You're absolutely right that this is the way things should go. I think why it doesn't speaks volumes about the fact that many KS creators, especially first time out, are a little wet behind the ears, business wise, either conducting business for themselves at all, or on the scale that KS can generate.
It is human nature to be enthusiastic, optimistic (perhaps overly) and honest about something you're passionate about. The creators try and give their backers the best possible scenario, when a more pragmatic approach would be to be a little more cynical and manage your backers' expectations a little more.
I wonder if one were to look into the history of the creators of high profile KSs if there would be any correlation between those started by people with experience running their own company, and those that don't, and the success/failure of those to deliver comms and product in an effective manner.
Of course, this theory doesn't allow for shenanigans or flat out incompetence, but you can't really legislate for that!
For true start up companies who don't have experience in contracting out casting and printing of big projects, I can see underestimating production times.
For bigger companies who have been through more than one rodeo, failure to properly manage the project and deliver the promised product close to the promised date is not a good thing.
Aeneades wrote: Sorry if it has already been mentioned here but Produs have said that significant changes are going to happen to the pred-alien figure as the licence holders do not like it (I have only seen good feedback regarding the model on forums).
Aeneades wrote: Sorry if it has already been mentioned here but Produs have said that significant changes are going to happen to the pred-alien figure as the licence holders do not like it (I have only seen good feedback regarding the model on forums).
Anybody got anything on this?
Can't link to it at the moment but a developer posted about it on the lead adventures forum
(AvP thread).
Forar wrote: At 28mm scale, both would be... pretty big.
My Aliens Technical Manual seems to be MIA (moving twice in the last 9 months will do that), but a little google and some quick napkin math indicate the Dropship would be around 16 inches long.
I'm not terribly familiar with Warhammer, but a cursory googling indicates that this would be comparable to some pretty hefty models. It's only an assumption, but based on the novels, movies and comics I've read, it feels more like a skirmish level game rather than one of larger warfare, which generally means a smaller combat area.
Basically, I could see some form of outline 'terrain' piece for the APC, but the dropship would... a hell of a thing.
Put it in the centre of the table, throw down some barricades and fuel cans, boom, marines have to guard the ramps until lift off
Oh God.... I'll give them $500 right now to make that above image/scenario happen!
All companies have to balance an apparently long delivery window
......Oh no, I have to wait how long ?, and KS projects often have delays...... I'm out, I'll wait for retail)
and shorter delivery windows
......Almost certain to be missed with the potential for pledger rage and the game dropping dead as backers have passed through enthusiasm to indifference
Prodos gave themselves far to short a window last time (2 months) and are now up to 7 months with a lot still to deliver so to be realistic and safe they'd probably need to say 9-12 months for this
Manchu wrote: From what we have surmised more recently, it looks like that was half-right: a "standard" version of the game will come through traditional channels while another will available through KS. At least, that's where things apparently stand today; we'll have to see.
As for whether the "standard" edition will be released in December ... who knows. I would guess not.
It is damn time that Prodos gives some explicit info that he promised us for yesterday.
Who knows why there's been a delay?
Sometimes things come up. More often with big, licensed properties too, I'd bet!
I mean, just look at how bad RH is at communicating on their completed Kickstarter - multiple times their promised update 'deadlines' have come and gone...
I'll be more concerned once this thing actually starts and then finishes if the 'no communication' thing is happening.
So is this a Prodos or CMoN run KS because the CMoN part could be a deal breaker for a lot of people but it was one way of getting a US based KS I guess.
Well, at least with CMoN this will be one they can put up with a USD price tag and cheap North American shipping (which was actually a major complaint for many during the Warzone campaign). And with USD campaigns doing better than GBP it should do fairly well.
I am leery of CMoN, but if they are just running distribution, then I can look the other way for the guys who brought Warzone back.
Here's hoping I have money to spare for something from this. But I am still stretched a bit thin from the summer rush. Can't wait to see more.
Prodos, what does "in association with CMoN" mean? They're going to be publishing? They're going to be distributing? Just dealing with money? Inquiring minds and all that...
spiralingcadaver wrote: Prodos, what does "in association with CMoN" mean? They're going to be publishing? They're going to be distributing? Just dealing with money? Inquiring minds and all that...
Oh come on now. The answer is on the same page as your question!
Prodos wrote: CMON are going to help Prodos with distribution in NA and SA. In Europe and ROW Prodos will handle distribution. And Prodos will be manufacturing.
As long as the material question is settled out of the gate, and actual pictures are shown of actual miniatures using said materials, all will be well!
And since Prodos is handling the production, I think most of those questions have already been answered?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Prodos, what does "in association with CMoN" mean? They're going to be publishing? They're going to be distributing? Just dealing with money? Inquiring minds and all that...
Oh come on now. The answer is on the same page as your question!
Prodos wrote: CMON are going to help Prodos with distribution in NA and SA. In Europe and ROW Prodos will handle distribution. And Prodos will be manufacturing.
What's the apprehension with CMON? That actually makes me feel better about distribution.
CMON has pretty much taken using ks projects as sales platforms to mixed results. They have a.... rep.
I really do hate them, but the game here is really putting a hesitation on the hate.
Don't understand some of the talk about the sideways way in which they want to use KS AND send out the game on its own. That's using KS as a... sales platform.
I just want the game, why not let this one sell itself and call it a success? Not that there wouldn't be a serious market hard one for it.
Actually, I think most of those who have issues with CMoN tend to be thinking back to the days of New Wave Games (ironically, they misplaced a bunch of Mutant Chronicles/Warzone stuff I had ordered prior to them going up). Some people likely dislike 'em for being behind umpteen different KS campaigns in one way or another. But the initial ill will is from their connection to New Wave Games and its checkered past.
But since Prodos is handling all the nitty gritty and CMoN is basically just making sure it gets to the Americas, I can feel confident about that.
As for material questions and production shots (since Alpharius mentioned it), Prodos were awesome with that during the Kickstarter. They may not have won awards for photography, but they always put up a lot of production photos of actual minis once they had them ready to go. The greyish/blueish stuff is their house resin mix used in Warzone. If you see any deep blue minis in their photos those are (I believe) masters. I'm largely certain we wont be seeing hard plastic on this one considering the time they have, though the material they are using has been fairly well received and QA issues have been fairly low. A few problems with thin pieces (which is more of an issue with sculpting and something they seem to have improved on over time) and only one post I know of complaining about the quality. Which seemed to be a case of a bad batch of minis that got through QA (happens to everyone). So no real worries on that end, we already know the stuff isn't original recipe restic or finecast.
As a first showing for a brand new company, Prodos did an excellent job with Warzone despite a few hiccups and setbacks along the way. I have little doubt their second endeavour will be even better.
Ronin_eX wrote: Actually, I think most of those who have issues with CMoN tend to be thinking back to the days of New Wave Games (ironically, they misplaced a bunch of Mutant Chronicles/Warzone stuff I had ordered prior to them going up). Some people likely dislike 'em for being behind umpteen different KS campaigns in one way or another. But the initial ill will is from their connection to New Wave Games and its checkered past.
Isn't CMON the publisher behind the troubled Relic Knights and Sedition Wars kickstarters? If so, I suspect a whole new generation of gamers dislike them for their involvement with those (whether or not they were directly responsible).
Good point, though I couldn't remember how much input CMoN had on those, so it may be down to the actual creators in those case. All I know is that the guy in charge of CMoN owes me for some Mutant Chronicles RPG supplements that never reached my doorstep.
Which reminds me, Mophidius are going to be doing the Mutant Chronicles 3E KS soon. Man, I guess I don't need to eat that much.
Either way, Prodos are only 5-6 months out from their initial estimate on Warzone (which is never going to be accurate, since it is made before stretch goals happen) which puts them fairly well on track in my eyes. I don't think they'll have many issues unless CMoN the bed on the distribution side of things (though I can find Zombicide in my Podunk LGS, so they may have a good handle on that). Since CMoN's part in this is relatively minor and I have good experiences with Prodos, I'm pretty confident on this one (unless we start hitting $1mil or more, then all bets are off). But if they set it up with the boxed game being like Wave 1 then they should be able to mitigate added-stuff-itis when stretch goals start coming out. If they are doing a retail-only version, then they can even mitigate scope-creep from the KS and make all those folks who like doing the retail thing happy. Should work out well, I hope.
for me, CMON is a great site, and an amazing store, but then i never got burned by New Wave...
i actually got what i ordered from them, back in the day...
since they reinvented themselves, and became CMON, they have always completed my orders, with no hassles...
the site itself has some amazing artists in the gallery, and the forums have some really great people...
i understand the new dislike for them with all of the Kickstarters, which have had a couple serious delays and problems...
if i were a Sedition Wars backer, or a Relic Knights backer, i would be pretty upset, too...
the point is, they are not scammers, and are completely legit, in my experience...
since they are only distributing, i think that the savings on shipping for North America is a good thing, and not something to worry about in the same vein as the SW and RK delays and issues...
seems like a good move...
Ronin_eX wrote: Good point, though I couldn't remember how much input CMoN had on those
CMoN was the creator for the KS's, so had control over the main form of communication and publication. CMoN also is creditied as publisher, so, unless they chose not to, would have had a fair amount of creative control (and if they didn't, then it was their choice not to). The rules sets were both worked on by Black Ball Games, which has (nearly?) exclusively worked on CMoN games, so presumably CMoN had input on the rules, as well. I believe manufacturing was also handled by them (with a third party), and distribution definitely was in SW's case.
At the very least, if there is another $1-5 for the beta PDF of the rules offer, I'll be in on that. I'll have to see what things look like when it goes up (and then judge how much I can bargain from my wife ). But with nearly $1500 in KS-backed minis coming in over the next few months I may just have to wait for this on principle. But if there is a nice low backing level just to kick some cash their way, I'll be going in for it just to keep track of things.
Either way, my chances of getting the main box are about 100% given any decent amount of time, but I may have to settle for the retail version (which may actually see distribution in my LGS since they seem to stock a lot of other CMoN distributed stuff). But I will definitely be keeping an eye on the KS.
CMon backed? ugh, it'll just be yet another abuse of KS as a pre-sale device.
I was happy with the first zombicide KS but Sedition Wars and Zombicide 2 didn't go over very well, big delays and poor communication. They made good on delivery but the KS experience wasn't the best. I'm not sure what happened with the projects recently but it hasn't been nearly as smooth as it was previously.
The other thing I'm not so keen on anymore is how they use KS exclusives like crazy to bolster the sales. If it's run like other CMon projects I'd really hate to see all these great sculpts end up as exclusives as it leaves people buying the games at LGS with no option for getting them and in the long run it creates bad blood with players.
I've seen plenty of people very upset that they couldn't get ahold of a particular survivor figure as they didn't even know about the KS at the time. It's so bad I don't even take the promos to game night as all I hear are complaints about them. While in theory it creates something special for the backers it's far more of a promotional tool to boost pledges and generates a very bad vibe with latecomers.
Running a KS during the holidays is really rough timing, if they do a bunch of KS exclusives I may have to pass on the game entirely. Which is a shame as the models look absolutely killer.
This is a Prodos Games project, they will design and produce the miniatures themselves. CMoN will only be distributing them to North and South America, Prodos will handle shipping to everywhere else in the world.
We'll likely have to wait for the formal annoucement to know the full details.
However, the issues/complaints with sedition wars and zombicide 2 are due to distribution based problems so I'm not sure if CMon being the distribution arm is very good news. (especially for the people who were unhappy with how the shipping on those projects were handled).
My personal POV is a bit mixed, I was happy with them early on but not so much with their preformance on their latest projects. I think maybe they grew a bit too fast and are struggling with it.
paulson games wrote: We'll likely have to wait for the formal annoucement to know the full details.
However, the issues/complaints with sedition wars and zombicide 2 are due to distribution based problems so I'm not sure if CMon being the distribution arm is very good news. (especially for the people who were unhappy with how the shipping on those projects were handled).
My personal POV is a bit mixed, I was happy with them early on but not so much with their preformance on their latest projects. I think maybe they grew a bit too fast and are struggling with it.
As BDJV has said, this is not CMON backed. In the poster we state 'in association with CMON'. In association does not mean backed by.
We are 2 very seperate teams (companies) that have entred a business relationship to allow us both to get this product to the Americas pledgers in a cost effective and timely fashion.. Prodos is leading (owning) this project, doing everything in it, but CMON are helping (in association with) us with the distribution in NA and SA. Thats it.
Prodos: Can you clarify the "boxes out before Christmas" thing? Will the box be out soon or with the usual kickstarter delay of say 6-12 months before arriving at the first customers?
It would be helpfull if you posted all available info here yourself to give us an idea how well communication will work on this kickstarter.
paulson games wrote: We'll likely have to wait for the formal annoucement to know the full details.
However, the issues/complaints with sedition wars and zombicide 2 are due to distribution based problems so I'm not sure if CMon being the distribution arm is very good news. (especially for the people who were unhappy with how the shipping on those projects were handled).
My personal POV is a bit mixed, I was happy with them early on but not so much with their preformance on their latest projects. I think maybe they grew a bit too fast and are struggling with it.
The issue with Sedition Wars was quality not distribution. The material they chose did not translate well from the resin masters that were used to sell the game, there were also apparently issues with the game boards, and the cards needed to be replaced due to game balance problems.
Wasn't aware of distribution issues with Zombicide 2. It was planned to deliver in Sept and I got my copy end of October, which by KS standards is early.
Actually the SW material is decent. It's the printed components and rules that are woefully lacking. Make no mistake: CMoN were the ones handling that (printed components, not rules!) as well.
...Not really an issue since CMoN will just do shipping here but I do think you're giving them entirely too much credit regarding SW.
paulson games wrote: We'll likely have to wait for the formal annoucement to know the full details.
However, the issues/complaints with sedition wars and zombicide 2 are due to distribution based problems so I'm not sure if CMon being the distribution arm is very good news. (especially for the people who were unhappy with how the shipping on those projects were handled).
My personal POV is a bit mixed, I was happy with them early on but not so much with their preformance on their latest projects. I think maybe they grew a bit too fast and are struggling with it.
CMON will be doing only distribution of KS orders in In North and South America, we need distributor to make sure that USA backers won't have to pay any custom fees (Prodos will cover that cost)
CMON is the only, at the moment, distributor meeting out criteria for USA.We are aware about issues with distribution for sedition wars and zombicide 2 for Europe.
Manufacturing , UK/EU / Rest of the World distribution will be carried out by Prodos UK. (unless we have a significant number of backers for Asia and Oceania, then, we will try to find distributors there as well).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kroothawk wrote: Prodos: Can you clarify the "boxes out before Christmas" thing? Will the box be out soon or with the usual kickstarter delay of say 6-12 months before arriving at the first customers?
It would be helpfull if you posted all available info here yourself to give us an idea how well communication will work on this kickstarter.
KS will be run by us, CMON is only distributor for USA.
I was really really looking forward to this game with excitement as Aliens and Predator rank there at some of my all time top Sci-Fi films and backgrounds. I’ve always wanted to do an Aliens type setting game. This is some of what drove me into buying Sedition Wars and the Bug Hunt 3D Corridors from Kickstarter. Really want into this AVP game, would sink a lot of ££££ to get what I want.
Then I see ‘CMON’ involvement…………………..
I’m really sorry, but regardless of how little or what CMON are contributing (or not) towards this project, I will not back anything that puts £0.01 into their bank accounts. This is my own personal feelings after being stuffed with Poor Communications, Delays, models from Sedition Wars (I won’t go into the background). Then there’s Relic Knights and on the month they are to deliver, out of the Blue, CMON announce an 8 month delay minimum to the project. CMON have pee’d me off to the point that I will not contribute anything to them, directly or indirectly.
I realise that this game is Prodos led and all that, but I’m out. Anything that puts anything into CMON’s accounts is taboo for me. A shame really, I really wanted this.
Good to hear CMON is not running this. Please keep their involvement to a minimum, as you can see why! If they're only distributing and have NO creative, production, or timeline input then I will still consider this campaign. It sounds like this is the case, so I'm happy.
SecretSquig: As you are in the UK you won't be giving any funds to CMON as Protus will be handling the distribution themselves within the EU. Much like how Battlefoam deal with CMON deliveries in Europe.
The way I see it working with CMON is that they will be given a small sum for each copy they handle and post which is only US/SA backers. I would assume that the only reason that CMON are even mentioned is because they are big enough to insist on it for free advertising otherwise they won't go ahead.
Kroothawk wrote: Prodos: Can you clarify the "boxes out before Christmas" thing? Will the box be out soon or with the usual kickstarter delay of say 6-12 months before arriving at the first customers?
It would be helpfull if you posted all available info here yourself to give us an idea how well communication will work on this kickstarter.
KS will be run by us, CMON is only distributor for USA.
CMON is involved, I'm out. Burned by new wave, and o far he communications is too erratic to give Prodos the benefit of the doubt. I might pick it up retail later, but I'll see what you guys say about the game first.
Well, being UK based, I don't have to worry about CMoN problems, so am still in this one. What I really want to know though is the delivery dates - really was hoping to get this in time for Christmas and even pulled my backing in a couple of recently completed KS projects as a result... Guess we'll have to wait for Friday though to see what is what
Here is to hoping that the game is shipped this year.
I always wonder about the management of companies. The Christmas season is very important and accounts for a large portion of consumer spending. Having a product available for purchase during the Christmas season is all but essential. Many other industries time their releases to this schedule. Take a look at toys and movies for example. If wargame companies were smart they would do the same.
I've noticed this in a few posts and just want some clarity. I take it you can only back out of a KS before its completion date i.e. the last day of funding has ended?
Yep, you can Medium unless it is on the final day and cancelling your pledge would take it over from being a successful project to an unsuccessful one (chances of this happening are next to none for the majority of projects including this one).
DiabolicAl wrote: Surely the '17 hours' is a reference to Hudsons line in Aliens? If i am remembering it correctly.
"extraction", not really. I guess it could be an oblique reference to this
Ripley: How long after we're declared overdue can we expect a rescue?
Hicks: [pause] Seventeen days.
Hudson: Seventeen *days?* Hey man, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen *hours!* Those things are gonna come in here just like they did before. And they're gonna come in here...
Ripley: Hudson!
Hudson: ...and they're gonna come in here AND THEY'RE GONNA GET US!
Ripley: Hudson! This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training.
[to Newt]
Ripley: Right?
[Newt apes a salute]
Hudson: Why don't you put her in charge?
I am in the same park as the others as far as CMON. to the point where CMON is synonymous with "We'll get to you when we want to, as long as we're banking several million bucks for laughs and hot air."
We've heard this sort of thing from other projects, that's why.
With what you keep typing, I don't think you are really understanding the issues that people have had with exactly what your saying.
Then when Kroothawk asked his question? What exactly is the answer here?
Whilst I recognise that being in the UK, CMON (based on the information supplied from Prodos) will have nothing to do with my game contents, design, distribution or manufacture. However, a small percentage of my pledge money will be given to CMON as payment for their assistance in distributing the game to US backers. Based on my thoughts towards CMON, I will not directly or indirectly pay anything into their bank accounts, no matter how small. As a consumer, that company has burned its bridges with me due to its treatment of customers on such projects like Sedition Wars and Relic Knights. People who experienced this will at least carry some understanding as to how people can feel as strongly as I do.
That being said, since the announcement of CMON being involved, several other members of my games group are now in the same boat as me. This topic has been talked about at length through our clubs chat group. Whilst 2 people are definitely backing this project, 4 others and myself are out due to CMON involvement.
I’m sorry about this, really I am, because I really wanted this game. But, I have developed very negative views on CMON through my own personal experiences and like they say on Dragons Den (not expecting non UK to understand this!)……… For that reason, I’m Out!
I loath CMoN, but have a lot of respect for Prodos. Beyond being largely my Polish countrymen, they ran a good KS, and have been very measured and honest about what they could give, at what prices, etc... all while taking more customer feedback and acting on it than most companies.
I was starting to work with Mantic around the Warzone KS, and as a show of support, spent a lot of gaming budget on their products at the time. While i'm glad I did, one of my greatest gaming regrets EVER was backing out of Warzone, as I now wish i'd backed, and backed big.
I won't make that same mistake on this one, and in fact have already gotten four local players hyped, and counting down to this AvP KS. :-p
I will never back another CMON game again, but my attitude is that it would be foolish to not support something I would otherwise be interested in due to the distributor. Of course, I'm in the UK, so make of that what you will!
Greatly looking forward to seeing what this turns into.
Kroothawk wrote: Prodos: Can you clarify the "boxes out before Christmas" thing? Will the box be out soon or with the usual kickstarter delay of say 6-12 months before arriving at the first customers?
It would be helpfull if you posted all available info here yourself to give us an idea how well communication will work on this kickstarter.
KS will be run by us, CMON is only distributor for USA.
Strange answer.
Indeed. So let me put it blunt:
Will there be an AvP box available in retail before Christmas 2013?
I to do not want to put anything more into CMON's coffers, even if they have nothing to do with me living in England. Will have a serious look at this project and then decide. BUT this is the wrong time of the year for me I'm afraid, I'm already struggling to find funds for the Battlesystems KS!
Man this will be some hard weeks to come.
I only have the money to back 2 projects and I know i will stay in Total Extinction (one of the few non "pre-Order" KS).
Journey is in the same boat but it's a coop game and in my experience, it will never be played with my gaming groups... so Journey or AvP.
Do i really want to give Cmon more Money?I think it depends on the game AvP wants to be...(really what is this? A coop game ....versus, skirmish TT!?)
Man, between this, Shadows of Brimstone, the GnG battle boards, and possibly the Hero Quest re-release I think I'm going to have to make some seriously tough choices in the next month or so.
It's also pretty amazing how this thread has gotten so much attention. Looks like this line could be a huge hit for them, if they do it well!
I agree that having CMON distribute their US rewards isn't too big of a deal. It might have swayed me away if I was on the line, but I'm likely just an interested observer on this anyway- too many Kickstarters and I already have aliens coming from trollforged someday
Honestly, considering how successful most CMoN-related/touched campaigns tend to be, I don't think it will harm them at all, especially considering the property we're talking about.
It also opens them up to wider exposure on gaming news sites (something Warzone had less of).
They may lose a few folks with bad blood to CMoN, but the amount of people they gain just by popping them on as distributors (with all of the upsides that brings) will likely outweigh that. And since CMoN wont be touching the game itself outside of putting it on shelves there are likely to be less hold-ups in terms of production.
But having a NA partner with a string of very successful KS campaigns is probably doing more good than bad. So I wouldn't let the ranting of a bunch of grognards (and I include myself since I did my share of kvetching over it ) mean too much in the long run. Some of us just have memories too long for our own good. But in the end, the good will I have for Prodos easily outweighs my feelings about the previous owner of NWG. I'll be interested to see what the possibility of USD mixed with cheaper shipping on this side of the pond (mixed with having access to CMoN's advertising network) will do for this one.
I would love to hear whether we will be seeing the retail box on shelves around Christmas though. It would certainly make a nice something something to hint about to the wife.
I don't think the end result of involving CMON will be negative in terms of the final pledged amount. There are enough general scifi fans that will pledge based on the strength of the underlying IP who will be ignorant of any past CMON issues to make up for the "hardcore" minis kickstarter backers soured on CMON. I'm aware of the issues that commonly plague CMON KS (and minis KS in general) but I'll still likely pledge if the value compared with retail is there. This is blatantly just a pre-order mechanic (stating the obvious, not making a judgement call on the "morality" of using crowdfunding for it) so I'll treat it as such and determine the worth of it based on the discount. If the value is there compared with retail, I'll pledge directly with them; otherwise, I'll just buy it locally. I've never been burned by CMON but I did have some moderately annoying experiences with the previous incarnation of New Wave (my shortest order time was 3 weeks and my longest was over 2 months till delivery).
Ronin_eX wrote: Honestly, considering how successful most CMoN-related/touched campaigns tend to be, I don't think it will harm them at all, especially considering the property we're talking about.
It also opens them up to wider exposure on gaming news sites (something Warzone had less of).
They may lose a few folks with bad blood to CMoN, but the amount of people they gain just by popping them on as distributors (with all of the upsides that brings) will likely outweigh that. And since CMoN wont be touching the game itself outside of putting it on shelves there are likely to be less hold-ups in terms of production.
But having a NA partner with a string of very successful KS campaigns is probably doing more good than bad. So I wouldn't let the ranting of a bunch of grognards (and I include myself since I did my share of kvetching over it ) mean too much in the long run. Some of us just have memories too long for our own good.
The CMon bad blood generated with sedition wars and zombicide is a recent issue that's still on going so I don't think it's "long term grognard memory" unless you expect gamers to have a 5 second momeory akin to goldfish. Referring to the issues with Wave or whatever they used to be yeah that's rather old news, but CMon still has plentyof recent and current issues related to their Kickstarters that have gotten people more than a bit POed at them.
They've been delivering on the goods that were promised in the kickstarters but the delays, communication, and quality issues are what people are upset about.
How are people going to buy this locally in the US?
I'm not aware of any of my local FLGS' using CMON as a distributor. They all stick to "real" distributors, GW and Battlefront. Or that's what they admit to anyway.
I'm sure if they want distributors like Diamond, et al will want to sell "Aliens vs Predator" stuff though. But if they don't get into that distribution chain I won't see it on the shelves at the three FLGS' I go to.
I think they've got some nice miniatures but I can't play the Kickstarter game until after Xmas.
I'm not aware of any of my local FLGS' using CMON as a distributor. They all stick to "real" distributors, GW and Battlefront. Or that's what they admit to anyway.
I'm sure if they want distributors like Diamond, et al will want to sell "Aliens vs Predator" stuff though. But if they don't get into that distribution chain I won't see it on the shelves at the three FLGS' I go to.
I think they've got some nice miniatures but I can't play the Kickstarter game until after Xmas.
Doesn't CMON have exclusive distributor rights to several games beyond just kickstarter offerings? I'm not sure but Dark Ages and/or Malifaux come to mind.
hi there, just to confirm, at this stage, CMON will only be used as distributor of KS orders only (mainly to make sure that backers wont have to pay custom charges).
KS is Prodos owned, not CMON, in £ as we are based in UK.
I don't see any problem to ship product via other channels than CMON if Backer wish so. In this case some custom fees might be applicable.
Can we please quit pretending there are any actual "issues" with Zombicide 2? There aren't. Just a bunch of pissy people that shipping 9000 copies of a game, all with unique orders, is taking longer than they want it to.
And they've made it clear: CMoN is only responsible for shipping. So any missed deadlines made by the game designers like with Relic Knights is on prodos and not CMoN, though I'm sure we'll find a way to blame them regardless.
Welp, got me a copy of the 6 disc Alien Blu Ray Anthology incoming for an absolute bargain price, and will probably pick up the Predator Trilogy set next week.
Even if I end up unable to back it, so close to Xmas, it has at least inspired me to upgrade my blu ray collection!
Good point Azreal. I have all of the above lying around here too, a marathon session could be on the books! Might have to keep the fast forward handy for Resurrection and the AvP's though ; p
Warzone Resurrection wrote: hi there, just to confirm, at this stage, CMON will only be used as distributor of KS orders only (mainly to make sure that backers wont have to pay custom charges).
Do you answer any question in this thread with "CMON is just a distributor"? Even the ones about the retail release date of the starter box?
This is getting weird.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: hi there, just to confirm, at this stage, CMON will only be used as distributor of KS orders only (mainly to make sure that backers wont have to pay custom charges).
Do you answer any question in this thread with "CMON is just a distributor"? Even the ones about the retail release date of the starter box?
This is getting weird.
May/June for retail box + add ons , and yes, "CMON is just a distributor" ... for Kickstarter orders only ;}
Warzone Resurrection wrote: hi there, just to confirm, at this stage, CMON will only be used as distributor of KS orders only (mainly to make sure that backers wont have to pay custom charges).
Do you answer any question in this thread with "CMON is just a distributor"? Even the ones about the retail release date of the starter box?
This is getting weird.
May/June for retail box + add ons , and yes, "CMON is just a distributor" ... for Kickstarter orders only ;}
Good to finally get a time frame for the release. Thanks.
Well, he said "May/June 2014", so hopefully before Christmas 2014, if we're lucky. No chance of it actually being on time. I don't know why they bother even attempting to pretend there'll be a 6-month timeline.
The game will be story driven. It is set between Alien and Aliens and takes inspiration primarily from the Alien and Predator films as opposed to the crossovers.
The initial release will be with a boxset ala Space Hulk. The initial boxset release will be before the end of 2013 with an initial expansion wave of up to a dozen new models planned for early 2014.
Prodos will be drawing in elements from the expanded universe so there will be plenty of different Alien/Predator/Colonial Marines/Civilian variants. Look out of an Alien from the old AvP Arcade Game!
The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
The game will support solo and multiplayer games. The initial boxset will come with a board for more contained focused play but there is also potential for further open combat.
There will be unique “hero” units.
The license does not include Prometheus.
Prodos will be showing off the game at various game conventions as well as a potential inaugural event to celebrate the release.
Warzone Resurrection wrote:
May/June for retail box + add ons , and yes, "CMON is just a distributor" ... for Kickstarter orders only ;}
Less than two weeks ago Prodos said the game would be released this year. I was rather surprised, as I thought that it was a fast launch. Now they are saying mid 2014. The comment about the 2013 release was really dumb on their part.
I guess this project is going to be much more successful than they thought. I bet they are really regretting using resin at this point. You want plastic injection machines producing boatloads of this stuff, rather than people fiddling with resin molds.
I imagine the Christmas 2013 comment was a miscommunication - they meant the Kickstarter would end before Christmas, not that the game would be released to retail then.
Gotta admit it's going to be hard to stay away from this one, especially now I've invested in terrain that just begs to have this game played on it ....
biggusdoggus wrote: Gotta admit it's going to be hard to stay away from this one, especially now I've invested in terrain that just begs to have this game played on it ....
absolutely. I'm in for it to use for Sedition Wars, Necromunda, and Space Hulk/40kCoD, but it's so versatile there's a list as long as your arm of games that could be played, and anything remotely along the lines of the Alien franchise is a positive shoe-in.
I'm also backing the battle systems kickstarter, and I'm hoping that the onset of the AVP KS will feed it new pledgers, and vice-versa. There are some KS campaigns that feel justifiably nervous about the launch of AVP, but the AVP and Battle Systems campaigns complement each other to a remarkable degree. If I were Prodos / Battle Systems, I'd set up some cross-promotion photo shots.
Horrible thought - Battle Systems terrain - with edited graphics to represent the "secreted resin" stuff from aliens. Would have to get at least a set of that too ; p
Well, he said "May/June 2014", so hopefully before Christmas 2014, if we're lucky. No chance of it actually being on time. I don't know why they bother even attempting to pretend there'll be a 6-month timeline.
hmm, why so sceptic? ;]
We have commitment to FOX that the game will be out mid next year, if we get for Salute 2014 that is a bonus.
Let mi give you some insight how Prodos operates: 250 different models designed, posed, manufactured in 7 months, 6 fully playable faction with range of 12-14 different units, each with unique rule set, 450 unique cards design in 7 months, 300 page top quality book in 7 months,
to translate this blood and tears to what we want initially for AvP, (with approx range of 20% of Warzone) and taking in consideration that starter models are made... the May should not be any problem.
BrookM wrote: Oh yes, do this right and it will be a glorious example of how preparing for a KS should go.
Pfft... Palladium got $1.4 million for Robotech and were 90% done prior to the kickstarter! Now 6 months later, they still haven't finished that last 10%, refuse to post any proof of real progress, and just delayed the kickstarter delivery for the first of likely many times... Ok, maybe they're a better example of how *not* to do it. :(
Well, he said "May/June 2014", so hopefully before Christmas 2014, if we're lucky. No chance of it actually being on time. I don't know why they bother even attempting to pretend there'll be a 6-month timeline.
hmm, why so sceptic? ;]
We have commitment to FOX that the game will be out mid next year, if we get for Salute 2014 that is a bonus.
Let mi give you some insides how Prodos operates: 250 different models designed, posed, manufactured in 7 months, 6 fully playable faction with range of 12-14 different units, each with unique rule set, 450 unique cards design in 7 months, 300 page top quality book in 7 months,
to translate this blood and tears to what we want initially for AvP, (with approx range of 20% of Warzone) and taking in consideration that starter models are made... the May should not be any problem.
I LOVE when a company parts the veil, and gives us a peek at their inner-workings.... especially when it helps factually shut-down some hate. ;-)
Prodos... you have my axe. ;-) I cannot WAIT to throw money at this game. Plus.... 20% of the range of Warzone? WOW.... That is a LOT more diversity of models than I was expecting initially. The implication is that the three initial factions would have... oh.... 6-7 types of units each sounds awesome for a new and generally more self-contained game.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: Let mi give you some insides how Prodos operates: 250 different models designed, posed, manufactured in 7 months, 6 fully playable faction with range of 12-14 different units, each with unique rule set, 450 unique cards design in 7 months, 300 page top quality book in 7 months,
... any chance you might be willing to give Palladium and Ninja Division some pointers?
BrookM wrote: Oh yes, do this right and it will be a glorious example of how preparing for a KS should go.
Pfft... Palladium got $1.4 million for Robotech and were 90% done prior to the kickstarter! Now 6 months later, they still haven't finished that last 10%, refuse to post any proof of real progress, and just delayed the kickstarter delivery for the first of likely many times... Ok, maybe they're a better example of how *not* to do it. :(
well, I can only talk about Prodos and state only facts based on Prodos achievements.
Personally, and this is my own opinion not Prodos ;], looks like like some KS money getting reinvested into other stuff, because I cannot believe, that after generating 1$mil USD+ the team cannot delivery what needs to be within 6 months, taking in consideration variety of the product (board game + 20 models + rules ..., that should not take longer than 4 months if the team have at least 50% done, and I can base this on my own experience as miniatures manufacturer).
Current starter for AvP, = designing of models, cast and corrections + board design + game mechanic = 2 months for team of 3 peoples, one printer, 3 PCs, some skills and passion. (and 1 of team member is part timer ;] ).
Prodos can turn over 1 model in 3 days. Have look on our latest KS update for Warzone, Crucifier, due to manufacturing issues was redesigned, from scratch, in print as we speak, and master mould tomorrow.
Plastic injection tooling takes 60 days from CAD to tool, and it holds 35 components per tool in average.
So, I must say, that some delays on KSs, from my experience, are very difficult to justify ,unless collected money where invested into something else that KS project. But again, my perception of things might be wrong....
Warzone Resurrection wrote: Let mi give you some insides how Prodos operates: 250 different models designed, posed, manufactured in 7 months, 6 fully playable faction with range of 12-14 different units, each with unique rule set, 450 unique cards design in 7 months, 300 page top quality book in 7 months,
... any chance you might be willing to give Palladium and Ninja Division some pointers?
We have commitment to FOX that the game will be out mid next year, if we get for Salute 2014 that is a bonus.
Inteerrreeesssting.. hmm... Can we speculate why 20th Century Fox would like a release for next year? No other Aliens or Predator films in the pipeline (as far as I know), although didn't they make a release during the summer about 'something big is coming' or some such like, but then never revealed what that big thing was?
So no time for the start tomorrow?
will you have some kind of countdown on FB?
I really don't want to stay up all night for nothing (not again ^^)...
Still i can't read between the lines what game this wants to be?!
Mortheim/deadzone skirmish (because someone mentioned something about models gaining exp.)
A real wargame ala Warzone(not really fitting in my opinion)
Or a coop survival game?!
A Boardgame story driven with objectives for each side?! ("story driven" was mentioned)
Can't wait for tomorrow....
I hope it's something like Mortheim/deadzone for 3 Players (love the hole experience/lvl up stuff)
xeper wrote: So no time for the start tomorrow?
will you have some kind of countdown on FB?
I really don't want to stay up all night for nothing (not again ^^)...
Still i can't read between the lines what game this wants to be?!
Mortheim/deadzone skirmish (because someone mentioned something about models gaining exp.)
A real wargame ala Warzone(not really fitting in my opinion)
Or a coop survival game?!
A Boardgame story driven with objectives for each side?! ("story driven" was mentioned)
Can't wait for tomorrow....
I hope it's something like Mortheim/deadzone for 3 Players (love the hole experience/lvl up stuff)
BobtheInquisitor wrote: the strength of the Aliens brand is not appealing to a niche of superfans but in appealing to huge swaths of the population who might not even play tabletop games yet
I couldn't agree more. If anyone needs proof that this is the best approach, please see X-Wing.
I dunno, X-Wing is prepainted, which I hate and you also pay extra for the cheap Chinese paint jobs, which I also hate.
Manchu wrote: Hmm, so it turns out those French sculpts that showed up a while back were for this!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not cool with the fact that these are 30-33mm and on the "new" 30mm display bases. The Horrorclix aliens were too big for my taste (although now I'd kill to be able to get my hands on them again)
I also disagree with them making Warzone bigger. A LOT of guys had old Warzone collections, and the old box set sprues weren't great, but they were passable. They could have made a compatible line, focusing on what wasn't available in plastic (pretty muche evrything except those two unit types) and large models and vehicles.
God if they'd made these in 28mm form I'd of sold my kidneys to fund the Kickstarter.
paulson games wrote: However people who were thinking these would be suitable guard replacements are probably going to be unhappy as the scale looks to be significantly larger than GW. .
This. I don't care about "predator Orks" or some such nonsense, and I get that miniatures have moved up in scale, bit I'd still prefer 28-30mm, on 25mm bases.
Eilif wrote: This pic is still a bit off-putting Looks like they're looking to be at least 32mm (to the eye). That's not terrible, but with my sci-fi collection much more on the side of 28mm, that's a significant difference. I could still be persuaded by a great deal, but in general I like for my human figures to be of similar size.
This. D&D still uses 28-30 on 1-inch bases and grids, GW uses it, Infinity uses it, and Reaper's IMEF marines and Chronosciope figures split the difference.
alanmckenzie wrote: Has there been any clue as to the basic format of this game? Will it be a board game a la space hulk, a full on table top game like infinity, or somewhere between the two (dead zone-like)?
And has there been any mention of terrain/a board in the box?
Card terrain kills it for me. I'm in it for the models. That one guy that ran a "not-Aliens" MDF terrain looked great. I wish he'd remake it in Space Hulk scale, although I regret not buying in/
Grot 6 wrote: I'm in for this one. Are we going to start seeing different levels of the beast (Xenomorphs and their varients from the movies) and the different types of Preds (Predators and their different movies)
Seem to remember there was a RPG and I found this.
There was also the fan-made Aliens: Game Over expansion for AD&D, that could easily be converted to d20 Modern or d20 Future. It was a fan-made product, but so well-made, it won some web awards. The official site that hosted it is down, but you can find copes floating around.
Stormonu wrote: my wallet is going to hurt so much. I have the old 25MM aliens from '91, but I'm really enthused about getting them in 28 mm.
The only thing I wish is they didn't have all the aliens with their tail posed over their head to strike. My memory may be fuzzy, but I only remember the dog alien and queen using its tail like that. I'd rather if the tail just "followed along" rather that it being posed to strike like a scorpion's tail.
Like others have said, it's probably for basing and the basic alien did tail-attacks a lot in the Sega DS game.
Keep in mind the recessed area on a PP/Wyrd style 30mm base is 23mm (rims of those things take up 7mm of diameter on, I believe, the 30, 40 and 50mm bases equally), which is the same as on a 25mm beveled (a style in which the slightly beveled edge takes up 2mm of diameter total) base.
Therefore, rebasing 25mm beveled based models to 30mm lipped bases, and vice versa, is never really problematic (except for CB-style base extensions). only potential issue arises with fitting 40mm beveled on 40mm lipped (33 instead of 38mm surface, overhang requires work) but anything from Wyrd/PP bases can be rebased to beveled edge bases without any problem whatsoever.
...And believe me when I say I'm happy for it; by the time this releases (even if Prodos keeps their schedule, which believe me, I would just about kiss their feet for ) There's not going to be a sedition wars model in sight here to abuse for infinity proxying anymore
(I can say with reasonable confidence I wouldn't give a rat's ass for the quality of AvP rules; the aliens make great CA hungries of which I need a LOT for certain abusive lists, the preds will have some additional armour sculpted over them and do just fine as Morat, and I'm sure the marines will work just dandy for replacing the bloody wonky fusilier and auxilia sculpts. Vehicles are bought with funny money, just to paint. anything remotely TAG-like is pure profit )
BobtheInquisitor wrote: the strength of the Aliens brand is not appealing to a niche of superfans but in appealing to huge swaths of the population who might not even play tabletop games yet
I couldn't agree more. If anyone needs proof that this is the best approach, please see X-Wing.
I dunno, X-Wing is prepainted, which I hate and you also pay extra for the cheap Chinese paint jobs, which I also hate.
Manchu wrote: Hmm, so it turns out those French sculpts that showed up a while back were for this!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not cool with the fact that these are 30-33mm and on the "new" 30mm display bases. The Horrorclix aliens were too big for my taste (although now I'd kill to be able to get my hands on them again)
I also disagree with them making Warzone bigger. A LOT of guys had old Warzone collections, and the old box set sprues weren't great, but they were passable. They could have made a compatible line, focusing on what wasn't available in plastic (pretty muche evrything except those two unit types) and large models and vehicles.
God if they'd made these in 28mm form I'd of sold my kidneys to fund the Kickstarter.
paulson games wrote: However people who were thinking these would be suitable guard replacements are probably going to be unhappy as the scale looks to be significantly larger than GW. .
This. I don't care about "predator Orks" or some such nonsense, and I get that miniatures have moved up in scale, bit I'd still prefer 28-30mm, on 25mm bases.
Eilif wrote: This pic is still a bit off-putting Looks like they're looking to be at least 32mm (to the eye). That's not terrible, but with my sci-fi collection much more on the side of 28mm, that's a significant difference. I could still be persuaded by a great deal, but in general I like for my human figures to be of similar size.
This. D&D still uses 28-30 on 1-inch bases and grids, GW uses it, Infinity uses it, and Reaper's IMEF marines and Chronosciope figures split the difference.
alanmckenzie wrote: Has there been any clue as to the basic format of this game? Will it be a board game a la space hulk, a full on table top game like infinity, or somewhere between the two (dead zone-like)?
And has there been any mention of terrain/a board in the box?
Card terrain kills it for me. I'm in it for the models. That one guy that ran a "not-Aliens" MDF terrain looked great. I wish he'd remake it in Space Hulk scale, although I regret not buying in/
Grot 6 wrote: I'm in for this one. Are we going to start seeing different levels of the beast (Xenomorphs and their varients from the movies) and the different types of Preds (Predators and their different movies)
Seem to remember there was a RPG and I found this.
There was also the fan-made Aliens: Game Over expansion for AD&D, that could easily be converted to d20 Modern or d20 Future. It was a fan-made product, but so well-made, it won some web awards. The official site that hosted it is down, but you can find copes floating around.
Stormonu wrote: my wallet is going to hurt so much. I have the old 25MM aliens from '91, but I'm really enthused about getting them in 28 mm.
The only thing I wish is they didn't have all the aliens with their tail posed over their head to strike. My memory may be fuzzy, but I only remember the dog alien and queen using its tail like that. I'd rather if the tail just "followed along" rather that it being posed to strike like a scorpion's tail.
Like others have said, it's probably for basing and the basic alien did tail-attacks a lot in the Sega DS game.
Were you replying to me? I'm just wondering since you had one of my posts in your quote....
Well, he said "May/June 2014", so hopefully before Christmas 2014, if we're lucky. No chance of it actually being on time. I don't know why they bother even attempting to pretend there'll be a 6-month timeline.
hmm, why so sceptic? ;]
We have commitment to FOX that the game will be out mid next year, if we get for Salute 2014 that is a bonus.
Let mi give you some insight how Prodos operates: 250 different models designed, posed, manufactured in 7 months, 6 fully playable faction with range of 12-14 different units, each with unique rule set, 450 unique cards design in 7 months, 300 page top quality book in 7 months,
to translate this blood and tears to what we want initially for AvP, (with approx range of 20% of Warzone) and taking in consideration that starter models are made... the May should not be any problem.
Because pretty much EVERY Kickstarter including WarZone manages to be at least 6 months late is why. Even when 80% of the work on the models is already done before the campaign starts
KS that deliver on time often seem to have taken ...short cuts on quality. I should point out that I'll probably still back, but I'm not convinced that you'll manage to make mid-year and will instead be hopeful that it's out by the end of 2014. I have very low expectations for KS projects after my many experiences, but of course would be happy if you proved me wrong.
Out of interest, when will WZ be completely completed? Before this campaign ends, I would hope...
BrookM wrote: You know what does bother me, a lack of previews or even news on female Colonial Marine.
It was mentioned somewhere that there will be female marines, I just cannot remember where.
If it's true to the source material, there will be female marines.. here's hoping for one of them being a Latino with a large gun and an aversion to creeps
If you have an iphone don't use the kickstarter app but go to the website instead, the search function takes ages to add new projects to the app where as they are instantaneous on the website.
I'm finishing a large assignment for a deadline tomorrow while waiting for this KS to go live (or possibly the other way around - lol, one day a client is going to hear me say crap like this and rake me over the coals for it ) so trust me, I'm on a copious dosage of caffeïne atm...
) is.
up). Some people likely dislike 'em for being behind umpteen different 
