Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So Flayed Skull still ignore cover which is ace for the base guns on everything.
Nobody cares about Poisoned 4+ AP0 D1 weapons in all seriousness, be it ignoring cover (only Light Cover and not Dense) to prevent enemies from getting an added +1 save to overpriced lasgun in most cases
It's been extremely valuable for Flayed Skull through 8th, nothing has changed in that regard.
Splinter Rack = always double tap
Cronos buffs characters and Core units with rerolls of 1s to wound and also gets Blade Artist
Hellions can now charge after a fall back
Vect is awesome
Lelith is awesome
Are you trying to make memes?
Duuude.
Vect on transhuman.
Lelith can kill a model, consolidate out of combat, and then go back in at the end of the phase, and consolidate away again. That's effin awesome.
Super harmonculus is awesome.
You can build a regular Succubus that will do the same, hit harder and presumably cost less with Master Succubus.
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
I make it 14 dead MEQ.
Maybe I missed something in the math. Either way it's a wiped squad unless it's a big squad of CSM or Raptors.
Not exact but it's 31 attacks hitting on 2's, wounding 3's. Stick Drazhar next to them for wounding on 2's.
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
I make it 14 dead MEQ.
Maybe I missed something in the math. Either way it's a wiped squad unless it's a big squad of CSM or Raptors.
Not exact but it's 31 attacks hitting on 2's, wounding 3's. Stick Drazhar next to them for wounding on 2's.
Ah, that's the difference. I didn't include Drazhar in my calculations.
Red Corsair wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
Hellions have had hit and run for over 10 years mate.
My mistake. It was mentioned as if it was a new ability. Apologies. So they've had it since about the time Raptors lost it? Lovely.
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
I make it 14 dead MEQ.
Maybe I missed something in the math. Either way it's a wiped squad unless it's a big squad of CSM or Raptors.
Not exact but it's 31 attacks hitting on 2's, wounding 3's. Stick Drazhar next to them for wounding on 2's.
Ah, that's the difference. I didn't include Drazhar in my calculations.
Red Corsair wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
Hellions have had hit and run for over 10 years mate.
My mistake. It was mentioned as if it was a new ability. Apologies. So they've had it since about the time Raptors lost it? Lovely.
No, 31 attacks is about 26 hits, wounding on 3's is about 16 wounds and with a 6 up save you should only make 2 saves as 4 of those wounds are at AP-4 so 14 dead. Gos up to around 18 when wounding on 2's.
Hellions have had Hit and Run since at least the 4th ed update and probably since the army was introduced at the launch of 3rd.
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
I make it 14 dead MEQ.
Maybe I missed something in the math. Either way it's a wiped squad unless it's a big squad of CSM or Raptors.
Not exact but it's 31 attacks hitting on 2's, wounding 3's. Stick Drazhar next to them for wounding on 2's.
Ah, that's the difference. I didn't include Drazhar in my calculations.
Red Corsair wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote: 10 Incubi average 12 dead MEQ on the charge, and with their Tormentors rule they'll be scary for anything else to charge. Best to feed them bolters. Hellions got Hit and Run? Before the unit the rule was originally made for? Grrrr.
Anything on Mandrakes?
Hellions have had hit and run for over 10 years mate.
My mistake. It was mentioned as if it was a new ability. Apologies. So they've had it since about the time Raptors lost it? Lovely.
No, 31 attacks is about 26 hits, wounding on 3's is about 16 wounds and with a 6 up save you should only make 2 saves as 4 of those wounds are at AP-4 so 14 dead. Gos up to around 18 when wounding on 2's.
Hellions have had Hit and Run since at least the 4th ed update and probably since the army was introduced at the launch of 3rd.
A difference in our math then. Still, it doesn't matter, they will shredMEQ, as they should.
As for Hellions and Hit and Run, if it was 4th edition then that is when Raptors lost it in the 4th edition CSM Abomination, er, sorry, codex.
Funny observation for the day: Everyone was convinced GW was going to Plague Marine the weapon options on Scourges, but nobody thought to think about Wyches getting the treatment. I wonder if Kabalite Warriors got the same treatment?
Also I agree with Imateria, Lelith is solid but you can make a normal sucubus that would make her blush.
6 base attacks, +2 attacks WLT, Triptich whip for 3 more, +1 attack drug.
Yup, a 12 attack per activation Succubus without even assigning an obsession lol. Hitting on a 2, wounding on a 2, flat 2 damage at -3, gross.
Personally I love all the loadouts.
Cursed blade suicide wench is stronger then ever. She bounces mortals with every successful 4++ doge (WLT) and when she dies inflicts d3+3 more? She will REALLY hurt durable monsters and units, and that's just passively before you factor any of her attacks.
The red grief one is as usual baller too.
I am seriously pleased with the reatment they finally gave the cult units. The Succubus actually trashes things in assault, as do the wyches, no escape sounds a bit odd now, but will have to get a better translation.
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
vipoid wrote: Sigh. What does GW have against Mandrakes?
What have you got against them, they're quite good.
Not core so even in the Realspace Detachment they don't can't benefit from the Archon's aura (nor anyone else's aura).
Because trying to build a themed army when not a single one of your HQs aren't allowed any synergy with the unit you want to build around is always fantastic fun.
IDK, feels like a flat nerf to grots. My favorite unit lol
.....Going from a 5++ to a 6++, transhuman (assuming PoF), and 5+FNP is a flat nerf?
No, going from a 4++ and a 6+++ to a 6++ 5+++ definitely IS a nerf. Also Profits of flesh specifically doesn't work on weapons that are strength 8+ and with plasma inceptors running wild that is a pretty impactful ability.
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
I was not opposed to some form of downgrade, but this is basically a worse save and the time sink still remains. Would have preferred coven simply add +1 to inured to suferring for the 5++
Seems to be an edition for wracks to shine if i am honest. Heck even the hex rifle in a dark techno is wounding most characters on a 2+ for flat 3 damage.
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
I was not opposed to some form of downgrade, but this is basically a worse save and the time sink still remains. Would have preferred coven simply add +1 to inured to suferring for the 5++
Seems to be an edition for wracks to shine if i am honest. Heck even the hex rifle in a dark techno is wounding most characters on a 2+ for flat 3 damage.
I agree Wracks look good but I'm very dubious about Dark Technomancers.
Suffering d3 Mortal Wounds for every 1 to wound seems like a hell of a drawback.
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
I was not opposed to some form of downgrade, but this is basically a worse save and the time sink still remains. Would have preferred coven simply add +1 to inured to suferring for the 5++
Seems to be an edition for wracks to shine if i am honest. Heck even the hex rifle in a dark techno is wounding most characters on a 2+ for flat 3 damage.
I agree Wracks look good but I'm very dubious about Dark Technomancers.
Suffering d3 Mortal Wounds for every 1 to wound seems like a hell of a drawback.
Given the wording implies you can choose like it's a plasma overcharge. You can easily pick what situations you need the damage and wound boosts for.
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
I was not opposed to some form of downgrade, but this is basically a worse save and the time sink still remains. Would have preferred coven simply add +1 to inured to suferring for the 5++
Seems to be an edition for wracks to shine if i am honest. Heck even the hex rifle in a dark techno is wounding most characters on a 2+ for flat 3 damage.
I agree Wracks look good but I'm very dubious about Dark Technomancers.
Suffering d3 Mortal Wounds for every 1 to wound seems like a hell of a drawback.
It's 1 mortal or d3 for vehicles or monsters so wracks and grots will only ever take 1 for 1
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
I was not opposed to some form of downgrade, but this is basically a worse save and the time sink still remains. Would have preferred coven simply add +1 to inured to suferring for the 5++
Seems to be an edition for wracks to shine if i am honest. Heck even the hex rifle in a dark techno is wounding most characters on a 2+ for flat 3 damage.
I agree Wracks look good but I'm very dubious about Dark Technomancers.
Suffering d3 Mortal Wounds for every 1 to wound seems like a hell of a drawback.
No rerolls either I believe, it's incredibly punishing now.
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
It will save time on most non-Coven unit that used to get FNP from PfP. You be making only one save for them (assuming they could get 2).
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
I was not opposed to some form of downgrade, but this is basically a worse save and the time sink still remains. Would have preferred coven simply add +1 to inured to suferring for the 5++
Seems to be an edition for wracks to shine if i am honest. Heck even the hex rifle in a dark techno is wounding most characters on a 2+ for flat 3 damage.
I agree Wracks look good but I'm very dubious about Dark Technomancers.
Suffering d3 Mortal Wounds for every 1 to wound seems like a hell of a drawback.
No rerolls either I believe, it's incredibly punishing now.
But apparently it procs on the hit roll now not the wound roll making liquifiers risk free and amazing.
So Vect affects following strategems but not the strategems itself? I.e. the first time I use a strat it costs normal. and vect only kicks in if I use it again?
An interesting switch. Swap Coven's Invulnerable Save with Power From Pain's Ignore Wounds. It will certainly save a bit of time on the table top and arguably even makes sense. Lots of dodging going on (PfP) while Covens shrugs off actual damage.
This won't save any time, not sure how you got that idea. They still have 2 saves, one of which needing to take longer verse multi wound damage since it's a FnP
It will save time on most non-Coven unit that used to get FNP from PfP. You be making only one save for them (assuming they could get 2).
Sure but that has nothing to do with the discussion you entered into.
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Argive wrote: So Vect affects following strategems but not the strategems itself? I.e. the first time I use a strat it costs normal. and vect only kicks in if I use it again?
I know its 0 CP but thats .. soo.. lame....
It's garbage, your opponent can play around it way too easily. If it worked immediately it would have been OK. The one use is also not helping it any.
It permanently increases the cost of the strategem you pick for the rest of the game. How could it possibly function in a balanced way if it was multi-use?
Sasori wrote: Was the Combat Drugs translation posted somewhere? I don't think I have seen it.
THeyre all the same except Attacks drugs are only on the charge.
Thanks Bud, appreciate it.
Oh wait - the +Ld drug has been replaced with a +1 BS drug.
It does both. No idea why, but there you go. I guess each on their own was nowhere near the other five…
BlaxicanX wrote: It permanently increases the cost of the strategem you pick for the rest of the game. How could it possibly function in a balanced way if it was multi-use?
Make it 1/round and unable to affect the same stratagem more than once.
Imateria wrote: It's incredibly dumb to see almost all weapon choices for Scourge are now Heavy with no way to counter it, at least Shredders are good.
Its a tremendous boost to their damage regardless of Heavy. And they also now have a 5++
Ok I'm taking in all the stuff here but how is all their weapons just about becoming heavy somehow a tremendous boost to their damage ? Yet again it sort of doesn't touch upon the scourges issue which is counter intuitive design of high mobility while carrying weapons they can't be mobile and get the best use out of. The 5++ helps but they still won't last long to near any incoming fire. Which makes them still glass cannons but now with heavy guns but for a couple options.
Edit: At least they don't have to take one of each weapon for that you must all praise the sun.
Spoletta wrote: I think that people's expectation for a 0 CP stratagem are a bit exagerated.
I think it's more a case of they would rather the stratagem cost more, and did more. 'Free' is also relative, as a mediocre strat is taking the place of a potentially good one.
By the way, we have the stratagems. They were posted on Reddit starting from a Leak in Italian language.
Cruel deception: 1/2 CP
Use in your movement phase. 1 unit can shoot or charge after falling back. Choose 1. IF you chose both, costs 2 CP
lightning reflexes 1 CP
Shooting/Fight phase. Choose infantry/vehicle or biker unit (not a coven unit). -1 to hit that unit
Grand nemesis 1 CP
Fight phase, anti slaanesh stuff. Re-roll hit and wound rolls
Hunt From the Shadows 1 CP
Same as current
Torturer's Craft 1/2 CP
Coven unit, fight phase. Re-roll wound rolls. 2 CP if unit has 11+ models
alliance of Agony 1 CP
use if general is Realspace Archon. Select a succubus and haemi, give them WL traits
Prizes of the Dark city 1 CP
standard relic strat. Use 1/2/3 times depending on army size
tolerable ambition 1 CP
generic Bonus WL trait to non-WL. 1/2/3 times depending on army size
Webway portal 1/3 CP
Same as current
Painsucker 1 CP
Use when a unit slays an enemy unit while within 6" of a Cronos. That unit counts the current battle round as the 5th for the remainder of the battle. Note, slaying them in the shooting phase is fine too. The shooter just needs to be within 6" of a Cronos.
Fire and Fade 2 CP
Same as Current, except 2 CP
attack the Weak: 1 CP
Core unit, fight/shooting phase, rerolls hits of 1 vs a unit that has lost a model, reroll all hit rolls if it has lost at least half of its models
Eviscerating Fly-by 1/2CP
Same as current, but costs 2CP for units of 5+ (was personally my favorite strat for unit of 12 reavers...RIP)
Lethal Rivalry 2 CP
Select a Reaver and Hellion unit that are within 12" of each other and can see each other. Add 1 to their movement, and re-roll melee hit rolls until end of turn
Rapid Acceleration 1 CP
Select a transport wholly within of battlefield edge. End of movement phase. Remove it and place it in strategic reserve.
Assassin's Debarkation 1 CP
Reinforcement step. choose 1 transport. Units inside can disembark, must must remain 9" away from enemies
Take them alive 1 CP
After killing enemy general in melee phase, subtract 1 from enemy attriton tests. (This was wrongly translated on Reddit, I corrected it).
Aethersails 1CP
Raider or Ravager advances +8 inches instead of rolling
Casket of Malediction 2 CP
Psychic phase. Haemi deals d3 mortals to each psyker within 12" on a 4+. 1 use only.
Haywire Grenade
same as current
Hyperstimulants 2 CP
Double the effect of a combat drug. No backlash. Can't target a model with Drug Bouquet Relic. Specifically mentions the existence of a +1T drug, NOICE
Shock Prow 1 CP
Select a Shock Prow Model. After finishing a charge move, deal d3 mortals to a vehicle on a 2+. OR if non vehicle, roll a d6 for each model within engagement range, dealing a mortal to the unit when rolling equal or above their toughness
Potent MetalToxin 2CP
Shooting or fight phase. Poisoned weapons affect vehicles, but not titanic units.
I saw the image of the Italian version. Can confirm that the translation is correct.
So that probably ended up in the MFM update because it was generated at a point where the DE book would be out either before or at the same time as the MFM, and for some reason the Power Level update document stuck with the original unit size.
2 attacks on wracks seems quite sad when you've got Wyches standing right next to them with (at least) 4. Max units of 20 though, which potentially does make bringing back D3 a turn more attractive.
Realspace Raiders seems to strongly imply you select 3 obsessions for your respective Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus, and the relevant Kabal/Cult/Coven units also gain that obsession - but it doesn't explicitly say "yeah, so, if I say this Succubus will be Strife, but this unit will be Cursed Blade, what do?"
Seems like a simple FAQ to the tune of "all relevant units in the detachment must take the obsession of the respective mandatory character to unlock this detachment". Since I am squinting at youtube, so its possible this paragraph is contained somewhere in multiple pages GW have dedicated to explaining how this rule works.
I suspect a FAQ will also be needed for how Splintered Mind (fight again at the end of the fight phase) interacts with the Ancient Evil Warlord Trait, (select an enemy unit, it can't fight until after all eligible units from your army have done so.) I'd imagine the Archon fighting again "at the end" takes precedence - but I can see the argument the other way, as it would be an eligible unit.
Tyel wrote: 2 attacks on wracks seems quite sad when you've got Wyches standing right next to them with (at least) 4. Max units of 20 though, which potentially does make bringing back D3 a turn more attractive.
It's good for internal balance though. The Coven ate the Cult's lunch for the whole of 8th, being both more resilent and as fighty. I'm glad to see Wych Cults as a relevant force within the faction as a whole.
Hmm some interesting bits from War Zone Charadon for the Cult of Strife, from 27:52 in the readthrough video:
Warlord traits:
Competitive Edge: After fighting and resolving its attacks, if they were all against one enemy unit, make an additional number of attacks equal to the number that did not make the inflict damage step. Basically sounds like a "do over" of any attack that did not get to inflict damage.
Unparalleled Agility: Attacks against the warlord have -1 to hit and -1 to wound.
Master Executioner: Re-roll to-wound rolls
And an interesting Relic:
Garland of Spite: At the start of the Fight Phase, one enemy model within Engagement Range (excluding Monsters and Vehicles) halves its Attacks. Secondly, the wielder of the Relic automatically hits with its melee attacks.
Dark Lotus Toxin: +1 S and Damage to all of the wielder's melee attacks (excluding Relics)
wow reading that is so much goodness - lore and game wise. Need to read it all see if anything broken but happy to see so much goodness for my Dark Eldar!
Tyel wrote: 2 attacks on wracks seems quite sad when you've got Wyches standing right next to them with (at least) 4. Max units of 20 though, which potentially does make bringing back D3 a turn more attractive.
It's good for internal balance though. The Coven ate the Cult's lunch for the whole of 8th, being both more resilent and as fighty. I'm glad to see Wych Cults as a relevant force within the faction as a whole.
I was number crunching last night, and assuming wracks had 3 attacks. They were way more point efficient then grotesques and even the talos. That poisoned -1 ap weapon profile already makes them very threatening. At 8ppm it would have been mental had they been 3 attacks. I kind of wish they were 10ppm and did have that extra attack, but this keeps all the options more viable.
Something I didn't expect were how damned impressive hellions are now. They actually are better then groteques now in several ways.
2 hellions from cursed blade with +1 T Are
34 pts move 14 S5 T5 4 wounds 6 attacks at -1 damage 2 They are infantry with a 5+ so can hunt from the shadows for a 3+ save and/or lightning fast for -1
1 grot stock
40 points move 7 S5 T5 4 wounds 5 attacks at -2 damage 2 They are infantry but only a 6+ so can use the strat to go to a 4+ and are not allowed to lightning fast but do have a 5+++
I actually think hellions are flat out better in almost every way now. More durable point for point, larger unit size. Fly, fall back and charge and a whole host of amazing strats.
I am pumped for my hellions but a bit sad for my grots, who honestly look worse then clawed fiends now.
vipoid wrote: to the point of dishonestly in places.
Which parts make you feel that way?
Off the top of my head:
"Flavour. A ton of things that just didn’t quite feel right in 8th edition have been addressed."
This seems excessively generous, frankly.
Some things were improved but there's still a ton of janky stuff in the flavour department, with other things actually being made worse.
HQs can ride in transports with units now. Great! Except that their auras still don't work. So a Master Archon can now ride with his Trueborn retinue and . . . sit around eating sausage rolls, I guess.
Outside of one HQ in one highly-specific detachment, you're still limited to HQ A only being able to affect Troop A, HQ B only being able to affect Troop B etc.. With so few HQs, it doesn't exactly make for a ton of options as far as list-building is concerned. Nor does it make much sense that Haemonculi suddenly forget how to do their job when confronted even by stuff they've helped to augment in the past (like scourges).
Speaking of Scourges, most of their weapons have become Heavy and they have no way around this. So we've got a unit that's supposed to be highly mobile but which you're encouraged to use like a squad of SM Devastators. Hell, bloody Chaos Havocs are functionally more mobile than Scourges.
Not only are Raiders still slow, the fact that Lances/Disintegrators no longer become Assault when equipped mean they've effectively become slower. And with the change to Flayed Skull, the best - the absolute best - they can do is match Eldar heavy tanks for speed.
Going back to Haemonculi, the characters known for bringing all manner of eldritch artefacts and esoteric wargear get... 0 wargear options. This, apparently, is an increase in flavour.
etc.
"Archons are actually worthwhile in a fight now."
Watch out, lads - I hear an Archon can kill a whole Primaris Marine.
Also, apparently having their only remotely good weapon nerfed into uselessness and no longer rerolling hits from his own aura somehow constitutes an improvement.
Just seems to be quite a bit of stuff like this.
Like, there have certainly been quite a few positive changes. I just think some people are being a little dishonest and pretending that every single thing has been fixed.
vipoid wrote: to the point of dishonestly in places.
Which parts make you feel that way?
Off the top of my head:
"Flavour. A ton of things that just didn’t quite feel right in 8th edition have been addressed."
This seems excessively generous, frankly.
Some things were improved but there's still a ton of janky stuff in the flavour department, with other things actually being made worse.
HQs can ride in transports with units now. Great! Except that their auras still don't work. So a Master Archon can now ride with his Trueborn retinue and . . . sit around eating sausage rolls, I guess.
Outside of one HQ in one highly-specific detachment, you're still limited to HQ A only being able to affect Troop A, HQ B only being able to affect Troop B etc.. With so few HQs, it doesn't exactly make for a ton of options as far as list-building is concerned. Nor does it make much sense that Haemonculi suddenly forget how to do their job when confronted even by stuff they've helped to augment in the past (like scourges).
Speaking of Scourges, most of their weapons have become Heavy and they have no way around this. So we've got a unit that's supposed to be highly mobile but which you're encouraged to use like a squad of SM Devastators. Hell, bloody Chaos Havocs are functionally more mobile than Scourges.
Not only are Raiders still slow, the fact that Lances/Disintegrators no longer become Assault when equipped mean they've effectively become slower. And with the change to Flayed Skull, the best - the absolute best - they can do is match Eldar heavy tanks for speed.
Going back to Haemonculi, the characters known for bringing all manner of eldritch artefacts and esoteric wargear get... 0 wargear options. This, apparently, is an increase in flavour.
etc.
"Archons are actually worthwhile in a fight now."
Watch out, lads - I hear an Archon can kill a whole Primaris Marine.
Also, apparently having their only remotely good weapon nerfed into uselessness and no longer rerolling hits from his own aura somehow constitutes an improvement.
Just seems to be quite a bit of stuff like this.
Like, there have certainly been quite a few positive changes. I just think some people are being a little dishonest and pretending that every single thing has been fixed.
Thanks for that.
On the Character auras in transports - no one has that. Hadn't thought about the loss of run and gun on the boats - interesting.
On Scourges with heavy weapons: Give them the +1BS Combat Drug. They're now hitting on 3s after moving, and 2s if they don't. With 14 movement, fly, and built in Deep Strike, that's slightly more mobile than Havocs.
Gadzilla666 wrote: On Scourges with heavy weapons: Give them the +1BS Combat Drug. They're now hitting on 3s after moving, and 2s if they don't. With 14 movement, fly, and built in Deep Strike, that's slightly more mobile than Havocs.
Well about Haemonculus, it is not as its unchanged wargear wise. Haemonculus now has Tools, Ichor Injector, Stinger pistol and scissorhands (that is +2A) as default.
They are not Wych Cult, and therefore cannot take Drugs.
Too bad they didn't get that special rule that allows them to move while firing heavy weapons like literally every other heavy weapons team unit has gotten in the last couple years. Even though they have wings.
There's some really good changes with this codex, and as usual some very frustrating changes that make no sense.
Gadzilla666 wrote: On Scourges with heavy weapons: Give them the +1BS Combat Drug. They're now hitting on 3s after moving, and 2s if they don't. With 14 movement, fly, and built in Deep Strike, that's slightly more mobile than Havocs.
You can't give them drugs.
There are however ways to buff them up in a Realspace Raiders detachment when there wasn't before - using the Archon with everyone's favourite relic you can reroll 1s to hit and wound.
Really though - the argument surely is that you can still hit on a 4s.
Missed opportunity: Remember our old splinter cannons at rapid fire 3? Yeah so do I... Well with the new splinter wracks allowing rapid fire splinter weapons to fire at full effect up to their maximum range it really feels like a kick in the shin that it was changed to Heavy 3. Like this would have been a really awesome chance for some synergy and would have been the only reason left to take a splinter cannon on a Kabalite. Now they just feel like really sad heavy bolters that don't quite fit anywhere.
Even on Venoms they feel counter-intuitive to me. Like the venom got a nice boost to melee capabilities and wants to be up front anyways to deliver its payload yet a heavy splinter cannon doesn't quite mesh with that idea. Our old version wasn't really wrecking the meta and this new one has the same single target damage potential (worse vs single wound models) as our half range version so why couldn't they just slap on the -1 ap to the RF3 profile and call it a day?
Don't get me wrong the codex in general is looking reeeeally good and most of the major gripes have been resolved but there are some glaring design choices that I can't wrap my head around. Splinter cannons just stand out as one that has me less than enthused. Looking like I may be chopping up a few of my Kabalites this week.
vipoid wrote: to the point of dishonestly in places.
Which parts make you feel that way?
Off the top of my head:
"Flavour. A ton of things that just didn’t quite feel right in 8th edition have been addressed."
This seems excessively generous, frankly.
Some things were improved but there's still a ton of janky stuff in the flavour department, with other things actually being made worse.
HQs can ride in transports with units now. Great! Except that their auras still don't work. So a Master Archon can now ride with his Trueborn retinue and . . . sit around eating sausage rolls, I guess.
Outside of one HQ in one highly-specific detachment, you're still limited to HQ A only being able to affect Troop A, HQ B only being able to affect Troop B etc.. With so few HQs, it doesn't exactly make for a ton of options as far as list-building is concerned. Nor does it make much sense that Haemonculi suddenly forget how to do their job when confronted even by stuff they've helped to augment in the past (like scourges).
Speaking of Scourges, most of their weapons have become Heavy and they have no way around this. So we've got a unit that's supposed to be highly mobile but which you're encouraged to use like a squad of SM Devastators. Hell, bloody Chaos Havocs are functionally more mobile than Scourges.
Not only are Raiders still slow, the fact that Lances/Disintegrators no longer become Assault when equipped mean they've effectively become slower. And with the change to Flayed Skull, the best - the absolute best - they can do is match Eldar heavy tanks for speed.
Going back to Haemonculi, the characters known for bringing all manner of eldritch artefacts and esoteric wargear get... 0 wargear options. This, apparently, is an increase in flavour.
etc.
"Archons are actually worthwhile in a fight now."
Watch out, lads - I hear an Archon can kill a whole Primaris Marine.
Also, apparently having their only remotely good weapon nerfed into uselessness and no longer rerolling hits from his own aura somehow constitutes an improvement.
Just seems to be quite a bit of stuff like this.
Like, there have certainly been quite a few positive changes. I just think some people are being a little dishonest and pretending that every single thing has been fixed.
Thanks for that.
On the Character auras in transports - no one has that. Hadn't thought about the loss of run and gun on the boats - interesting.
Theres plenty of things "no one" has aaprt from a certain faction has... Thats the whole points of having individual factions and armies having their "thing".
It seems looking at the starts and what not is a whole lot of nothing burger sadly.
Brutus_Apex wrote: They are not Wych Cult, and therefore cannot take Drugs.
Too bad they didn't get that special rule that allows them to move while firing heavy weapons like literally every other heavy weapons team unit has gotten in the last couple years. Even though they have wings.
There's some really good changes with this codex, and as usual some very frustrating changes that make no sense.
Marines don't have that outside of iron hands, really.
vipoid wrote: Am I correct in thinking that DEHQs aren't CORE, so their auras don't even work on themselves?
That's one of the points of the CORE keyword. From 'Core Units and Characters' on Warhammer Community:
A crucial side-effect of this change is that Characters themselves won’t be affected by aura abilities that utilise the Core keyword – they’re supposed to be commanding others, not inspiring themselves to do better! In the example shown above, the Space Marine Captain won’t be able to re-roll his hit rolls of 1 and will instead have to rely on his own merit to strike home. To be fair, he’ll usually hit on a 2+ anyway!
Nor will the aforementioned Captain be affected by a Lieutenant’s Tactical Precision aura ability – a Captain has been there, seen it, and done it all, which is why he’s in charge and has such an amazing profile in the first place! However – and very much as intended – a nearby Core unit of Space Marines will be significantly more effective when in the presence of their Captain and/or a Lieutenant, just as they should be.
A crucial side-effect of this change is that Characters themselves won’t be affected by aura abilities that utilise the Core keyword – they’re supposed to be commanding others, not inspiring themselves to do better! In the example shown above, the Space Marine Captain won’t be able to re-roll his hit rolls of 1 and will instead have to rely on his own merit to strike home. To be fair, he’ll usually hit on a 2+ anyway!
Sure. But it also means that Archons can command a grand total of 3 units.
Though I'll add that only ever helping/inspiring others is weirdly altruistic, given the nature of DE.
Theres plenty of things "no one" has aaprt from a certain faction has... Thats the whole points of having individual factions and armies having their "thing".
It seems looking at the starts and what not is a whole lot of nothing burger sadly.
DE still definitely has their thing.
Not sure what your second sentence is referencing.
A crucial side-effect of this change is that Characters themselves won’t be affected by aura abilities that utilise the Core keyword – they’re supposed to be commanding others, not inspiring themselves to do better! In the example shown above, the Space Marine Captain won’t be able to re-roll his hit rolls of 1 and will instead have to rely on his own merit to strike home. To be fair, he’ll usually hit on a 2+ anyway!
Sure. But it also means that Archons can command a grand total of 3 units.
Though I'll add that only ever helping/inspiring others is weirdly altruistic, given the nature of DE.
I'd say less altruistic and more like threatening them to fight harder lest they choose not to regenerate them with haemonculi services if they die.
vipoid wrote: Am I correct in thinking that DEHQs aren't CORE, so their auras don't even work on themselves?
Only the skorpekh can buff itself out of recent books. Chapter master can cover characters as well. I think that's it.
The Skorpekh Lord (and Skorpekh Destroyers) have the DESTROYER CULT keyword, not the CORE keyword. Only Necron Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, Deathmarks and Tomb Blades have the CORE keyword.
vipoid wrote: Am I correct in thinking that DEHQs aren't CORE, so their auras don't even work on themselves?
Only the skorpekh can buff itself out of recent books. Chapter master can cover characters as well. I think that's it.
The Skorpekh Lord (and Skorpekh Destroyers) have the DESTROYER CULT keyword, not the CORE keyword. Only Necron Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, Deathmarks and Tomb Blades have the CORE keyword.
Right - the takeaway is that characters largely don't get rerolls and if they do it likely isn't from an aura.
Yeah, the Goonhammer review is weird, it's like they were so bowled over by not getting totally brushed off that they gave it an A+ just for that reason.
What looks solid to me about the book is that the internal balance seems much better (and a Succubi with the mortal wounds on 6s to hit seems kinda broken, if super RNGy). Other than that, there's a few neat little tricks thrown in here and there, but a lot of the problems with the 8th edition codex remain, and some of them are actually made worse (scourges being punished for being mobile, not being able to take Drazhar in their new shiny detachment that's supposed to fix the problems, vehicles getting effectively slower, Lelith still confused and junk, etc etc).
Don't get me wrong, it's a big boost on the old book...but I suspect views on it are going to look different 2-3 months from now than they do right now.
vipoid wrote: Am I correct in thinking that DEHQs aren't CORE, so their auras don't even work on themselves?
Only the skorpekh can buff itself out of recent books. Chapter master can cover characters as well. I think that's it.
The Skorpekh Lord (and Skorpekh Destroyers) have the DESTROYER CULT keyword, not the CORE keyword. Only Necron Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, Deathmarks and Tomb Blades have the CORE keyword.
Right - the takeaway is that characters largely don't get rerolls and if they do it likely isn't from an aura.
The point is that you can't compare other keywords with how the CORE keyword works. Most likely the Skorpekh Lord would have had the ability to re-roll a wound roll of 1 which was rolled into the DESTROYER CULT keyword instead of making an exception as to why the Skorpekh Lord didn't benefit from both the United in Destruction aura and his own ability.
vipoid wrote: The Goonhammer review does seem to be overselling the book a tad, to the point of dishonestly in places.
They're entitled to their opinion of the book, even if it isn't as morose as yours. Claiming dishonesty because they're not in lockstep with you is uncalled for.
Brutus_Apex wrote: Too bad they didn't get that special rule that allows them to move while firing heavy weapons like literally every other heavy weapons team unit has gotten in the last couple years. Even though they have wings.
Not seeing anything stopping them moving and firing, though they will be less accurate if they do so.
Aside from the Succubi that can consolidate 6" in any direction, there doesn't seem to be a lot of sneaky tricks in this book. Black Templars are still, somewhat ironically, a lot trickier than DE in terms of the weird stuff they can pull off. The other stuff is mostly just based on RNG (turning off obsec, making stuff fight last aside from the vex mask, stopping falling back), which makes it unreliable and difficult to plan around.
Well, and the "fly a bunch of Hellions over a character to instagib it," which I'm not sure is going to survive a FAQ - these rules almost always always have a minus to the roll when you target a character.
vipoid wrote: The Goonhammer review does seem to be overselling the book a tad, to the point of dishonestly in places.
They're entitled to their opinion of the book, even if it isn't as morose as yours. Claiming dishonesty because they're not in lockstep with you is uncalled for.
Brutus_Apex wrote: Too bad they didn't get that special rule that allows them to move while firing heavy weapons like literally every other heavy weapons team unit has gotten in the last couple years. Even though they have wings.
Not seeing anything stopping them moving and firing, though they will be less accurate if they do so.
Except for the fact that they can't be 100% impartial where yukishiro for sure has no such restriction when stating his opinions.
They speak of the Drukhari codex as the forthcoming of a new age of xeno dominance when in reality it's a 8.5 codex with few problems fixed and same old ones still there.
Take the +3A agoniser relic ( and D2, 2+ poison ). +1A on charge drug. Trait - on unmods 6s to hit cause MW = weapons damage and end sequence.
There's a decent chance for 4 mortal wounds there plus an additional 4 against literally any non-vehicle character with a 4++. Yeesh. I guess Red Grief for +2M and reroll charges? That with advance and charge on turn 2 makes it a given for her to make it somewhere.
That definitely makes Lelith ONLY good as a W1 horde killer and this one the everything else killer.
To be fair to Goonhammer, they're not hesitant to say when something sucks. I am firmly convinced they really do think this book is the bee's knees. And who knows, maybe it is. They're not idiots. But it does feel to me like some of their adjectives aren't really warranted here. This strikes me as a Necron-type book - a big improvement on the 8th edition Codex, but not on the same level as stuff like the Death Guard or Dark Angels books in terms of reinventing the faction - and also a book that, although it certainly improves on the idiocy of the 8th edition codex, still retains some of the significant problems with it.
To me it feels like reading this book that GW still doesn't really have a vision for what Xenos are supposed to be besides a hard-mode way to play the game that lacks either the raw power or the tricks of human-based armies, but makes up for it to some extent with masses of cheaply pointed junk that can play the mission while being wiped. I.e. factions with a higher skill floor, but without the higher skill cap to match it.
It used to be that Xenos armies had most of the weird tricks, but that seems to be firmly a thing of the past, with space marines getting essentially every trick that other armies used to have, without those armies seeing an increase in the amount of tricks they can play themselves. I think Drukhari are going to be competitive with this new Codex, but I'm not sure they're really going to feel any more like they ought to than they did in 8th.
I added a paragraph explaining in broad terms. But we can take a couple examples, one specific and one more general.
First, the specific. Master Archon. A Master Archon is someone who has climbed the ranks of a legendarily treacherous, double-crossing society through being more ruthless, more cunning, and more devious than anyone else. And that's represented in game by...a once per game fight twice, and a relic and warlord traits that make him more resilient and hit harder. Does that really seem right? It's not that it's ineffective...it's just that it doesn't feel like the rules are really representing what they ought to be representing.
Then a broader observation: Drukhari are not even close to as fast or tricky an army as any of the space marine chapters focused on mobility and trickery. To take one specific example: Black templars can put bladeguard in an impulsor, move the impulsor 14", disembark 3", move the bladeguard 6"+1d6" rerolled, then pile-in 6" into combat without even having to charge, thereby avoiding overwatch or anything else that depends on a charge reaction. All of this is guaranteed, there's no RNG involved, it just happens (even the 6" pile-in as opposed to 3" can be guaranteed by spending the CP to auto-pass the litany on the primaris biker chaplain that, once again, just auto-advanced 20"). Or you can deep strike something in any easily get a 7" rerollable charge. You can't even Vect any of it anymore, because, well, that got removed.
Drukhari? Well, uh, they can deep-strike a transport then immediately disembark...still 9" from the enemy. That's their sneaky trick. Again, the point isn't that the Drukarhi book is bad...just that it's, well, bland compared to the amazing tricks Space Marines can pull off. I read this book and I think "that seems strong" here and there, but what I don't think is "that seems devious" or "wow, that's a totally awesome trick that really makes this army feel unique!" Except for the 6" consolidate in any direction succubus. That's a great example of how this book should be in general, but instead, it ends up being a rare exception.
Dysartes wrote: Not seeing anything stopping them moving and firing, though they will be less accurate if they do so.
Just pondering as I paw through the book.
Maybe people should treat them more like assault marines instead of devastators? With M14, A2/3, blade artists - use blasters to shoot on the move - maybe Black Heart realspace to give them run and charge turn 1. Otherwise they'll have to plan on spending to spend the 2CP to move them back into cover after shooting or deepstrike and hope for good rolls before they die.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote: I added a paragraph explaining in broad terms. But we can take a couple examples, one specific and one more general.
First, the specific. Master Archon. A Master Archon is someone who has climbed the ranks of a legendarily treacherous, double-crossing society through being more ruthless, more cunning, and more devious than anyone else. And that's represented in game by...a once per game fight twice, and a relic and warlord traits that make him more resilient and hit harder. Does that really seem right? It's not that it's ineffective...it's just that it doesn't feel like the rules are really representing what they ought to be representing.
Then a broader observation: Drukhari are not even close to as fast or tricky an army as any of the space marine chapters focused on mobility and trickery. To take one specific example: Black templars can put bladeguard in an impulsor, move the impulsor 14", disembark 3", move the bladeguard 6"+1d6" rerolled, then pile-in 6" into combat without even having to charge, thereby avoiding overwatch or anything else that depends on a charge reaction. All of this is guaranteed, there's no RNG involved, it just happens (even the 6" pile-in as opposed to 3" can be guaranteed by spending the CP to auto-pass the litany on the primaris biker chaplain that, once again, just auto-advanced 20"). Or you can deep strike something in any easily get a 7" rerollable charge. You can't even Vect any of it anymore, because, well, that got removed.
Drukhari? Well, uh, they can deep-strike a transport then immediately disembark...still 9" from the enemy. That's their sneaky trick. Again, the point isn't that the Drukarhi book is bad...just that it's, well, bland compared to the amazing tricks Space Marines can pull off. I read this book and I think "that seems strong" here and there, but what I don't think is "that seems devious" or "wow, that's a totally awesome trick that really makes this army feel unique!" Except for the 6" consolidate in any direction succubus. That's a great example of how this book should be in general, but instead, it ends up being a rare exception.
Gotcha. Yea - not much contending with BT. Isn't it a regular 3" pile-in with a 6" consolidate though? The book is definitely in the killy rather than sneaky realm.
You can turn it into 6" with canticle. I mean you don't even need it most of the time, you still have a 14" + 3 + 6" + 1d6 rerolled (call it a 4") + 3" = average 30" threat range without it, it's just that you can bump it up to 33" if you really need to, and again, it just happens (with the CP investment if necessary), no rolling required.
And that's Black Templars, an army that aren't even known for their sneakiness. Dark Angels can do all sorts of sneaky nonsense too that again makes Drukhari feel totally inadequate on the tricksy scale, ditto Raven Guard or White Scars. Even generic space marines arguably have more tricks in 9th than Drukhari.
Another way I could put this is: this codex feels more like what the 8th edition codex should have been, rather than what the 9th edition codex should be.
yukishiro1 wrote: I added a paragraph explaining in broad terms. But we can take a couple examples, one specific and one more general.
First, the specific. Master Archon. A Master Archon is someone who has climbed the ranks of a legendarily treacherous, double-crossing society through being more ruthless, more cunning, and more devious than anyone else. And that's represented in game by...a once per game fight twice, and a relic and warlord traits that make him more resilient and hit harder. Does that really seem right? It's not that it's ineffective...it's just that it doesn't feel like the rules are really representing what they ought to be representing.
Then a broader observation: Drukhari are not even close to as fast or tricky an army as any of the space marine chapters focused on mobility and trickery. To take one specific example: Black templars can put bladeguard in an impulsor, move the impulsor 14", disembark 3", move the bladeguard 6"+1d6" rerolled, then pile-in 6" into combat without even having to charge, thereby avoiding overwatch or anything else that depends on a charge reaction. All of this is guaranteed, there's no RNG involved, it just happens (even the 6" pile-in as opposed to 3" can be guaranteed by spending the CP to auto-pass the litany on the primaris biker chaplain that, once again, just auto-advanced 20"). Or you can deep strike something in any easily get a 7" rerollable charge. You can't even Vect any of it anymore, because, well, that got removed.
Drukhari? Well, uh, they can deep-strike a transport then immediately disembark...still 9" from the enemy. That's their sneaky trick. Again, the point isn't that the Drukarhi book is bad...just that it's, well, bland compared to the amazing tricks Space Marines can pull off. I read this book and I think "that seems strong" here and there, but what I don't think is "that seems devious" or "wow, that's a totally awesome trick that really makes this army feel unique!" Except for the 6" consolidate in any direction succubus. That's a great example of how this book should be in general, but instead, it ends up being a rare exception.
Drukhari can move a unit, shoot with it, then move another 7" and charge. All those little tricks always come after months of people experimentating with the supplements and codex. Is not like people was doing that kind of stuff day 1 with those armies.
Now, what I'm missing from this book is a "invisible wargear" table for all HQ's. Or at least Haemunculus, now that they don't have gear options.
Drukhari can move a unit, shoot with it, then move another 7" and charge. All those little tricks always come after months of people experimentating with the supplements and codex. Is not like people was doing that kind of stuff day 1 with those armies.
Now, what I'm missing from this book is a "invisible wargear" table for all HQ's. Or at least Haemunculus, now that they don't have gear options.
No charging after that strat. I agree that there still seems to be a fair to be explore. I predict marines will be complaining about getting thrashed by DE in 2 to 3 months time and the natural order of things will be restored.
Take the +3A agoniser relic ( and D2, 2+ poison ). +1A on charge drug. Trait - on unmods 6s to hit cause MW = weapons damage and end sequence.
There's a decent chance for 4 mortal wounds there plus an additional 4 against literally any non-vehicle character with a 4++. Yeesh. I guess Red Grief for +2M and reroll charges? That with advance and charge on turn 2 makes it a given for her to make it somewhere.
That definitely makes Lelith ONLY good as a W1 horde killer and this one the everything else killer.
It doesnt seem like a terrible build, you can make it better with the blood glaive (damage 3), but I cant believe everyone is missing the meme potential of razorflail hypex quicksilver fighter succubus in cursed blade.
Take the +3A agoniser relic ( and D2, 2+ poison ). +1A on charge drug. Trait - on unmods 6s to hit cause MW = weapons damage and end sequence.
There's a decent chance for 4 mortal wounds there plus an additional 4 against literally any non-vehicle character with a 4++. Yeesh. I guess Red Grief for +2M and reroll charges? That with advance and charge on turn 2 makes it a given for her to make it somewhere.
That definitely makes Lelith ONLY good as a W1 horde killer and this one the everything else killer.
It doesnt seem like a terrible build, you can make it better with the blood glaive (damage 3), but I cant believe everyone is missing the meme potential of razorflail hypex quicksilver fighter succubus in cursed blade.
18 s4 ap-1 d1 attacks.
But you'd lose the +3A, right? That's what would make it easier to gather a couple/few sixes.
Drukhari can move a unit, shoot with it, then move another 7" and charge. All those little tricks always come after months of people experimentating with the supplements and codex. Is not like people was doing that kind of stuff day 1 with those armies.
Now, what I'm missing from this book is a "invisible wargear" table for all HQ's. Or at least Haemunculus, now that they don't have gear options.
1. No you can't, and FnF isn't even new anyway, either itself (that goes back to 8th) or the concept of move-shoot-move which has been around for ages now. Nor is it even unique to Drukhari, for that matter.
2. You may not have seen the potential for devout push or other similarly important, faction-defining stratagems immediately, but plenty of us did. You don't have to take my word for it, you can go back to when it first came out and see people talking about the potential within literally hours.
You're free to disagree with my point if you want, but please don't state false things in support.
Well, if theres a prohibition of charging in the English version of the stratagem I'll apologice. In the spanish one theres no such one (Another error of translation, of course).
yukishiro1 wrote: I added a paragraph explaining in broad terms. But we can take a couple examples, one specific and one more general.
First, the specific. Master Archon. A Master Archon is someone who has climbed the ranks of a legendarily treacherous, double-crossing society through being more ruthless, more cunning, and more devious than anyone else. And that's represented in game by...a once per game fight twice, and a relic and warlord traits that make him more resilient and hit harder. Does that really seem right? It's not that it's ineffective...it's just that it doesn't feel like the rules are really representing what they ought to be representing.
Then a broader observation: Drukhari are not even close to as fast or tricky an army as any of the space marine chapters focused on mobility and trickery. To take one specific example: Black templars can put bladeguard in an impulsor, move the impulsor 14", disembark 3", move the bladeguard 6"+1d6" rerolled, then pile-in 6" into combat without even having to charge, thereby avoiding overwatch or anything else that depends on a charge reaction. All of this is guaranteed, there's no RNG involved, it just happens (even the 6" pile-in as opposed to 3" can be guaranteed by spending the CP to auto-pass the litany on the primaris biker chaplain that, once again, just auto-advanced 20"). Or you can deep strike something in any easily get a 7" rerollable charge. You can't even Vect any of it anymore, because, well, that got removed.
Drukhari? Well, uh, they can deep-strike a transport then immediately disembark...still 9" from the enemy. That's their sneaky trick. Again, the point isn't that the Drukarhi book is bad...just that it's, well, bland compared to the amazing tricks Space Marines can pull off. I read this book and I think "that seems strong" here and there, but what I don't think is "that seems devious" or "wow, that's a totally awesome trick that really makes this army feel unique!" Except for the 6" consolidate in any direction succubus. That's a great example of how this book should be in general, but instead, it ends up being a rare exception.
Drukhari can move a unit, shoot with it, then move another 7" and charge. All those little tricks always come after months of people experimentating with the supplements and codex. Is not like people was doing that kind of stuff day 1 with those armies.
Now, what I'm missing from this book is a "invisible wargear" table for all HQ's. Or at least Haemunculus, now that they don't have gear options.
Spoletta wrote: If this codex is low effort, please please please GW don't apply much effort to my bugs,
Well, he did say the release. Still, the Codex seems to be a vast improvement over the 8th Edition version. It is bursting with upgrades and new options. It also amazing seems to be good in terms of the 9th Edition balance point. We shall see how that bears out in organized play over the new few months.
If models are repackaged with bigger bases do the older models with the smaller bases become "illegal"? I've always heard you have to use the bases that came with.
They're up on Goonhammer and in videos. The rules are not allowed in Realspace Raids so there's a cost. There's a nice one where if they wipe out a unit they can do 1 CP for a 4++. There's the extra attack for each no damage attack that floated around here and some other pretty decent things.
jivardi wrote: If models are repackaged with bigger bases do the older models with the smaller bases become "illegal"? I've always heard you have to use the bases that came with.
There's never been a basing chart for 40k the way there is with AOS, therefore it's technically up to each individual event. ITC has a basing chart that as long as you obey presumably you will not go wrong anywhere on.
They're up on Goonhammer and in videos. The rules are not allowed in Realspace Raids so there's a cost. There's a nice one where if they wipe out a unit they can do 1 CP for a 4++. There's the extra attack for each no damage attack that floated around here and some other pretty decent things.
Not completely accurate. You can use the warlord traits as long as a Cult of Strife character gains a warlord trait. You can use the relics if your Realspace Raid detachment has Cult of Strife as its Cult. However, you only get the stratagems if you have a Cult of Strife detachment. Notably, they it appears they didn't include the need for that detachment to not be an Auxiliary Support detachment, so if you want to spend 2 CP to grab a random Cult of Strife unit that doesn't benefit from Realspace Raiders you can get them that way.
Right. It's Hellions I was thinking of. Whoops. 
