JNAProductions wrote: At 24", a Multi Melta does 40% more damage than a Dark Lance.
This raises to 120% at 12".
Obviously the Dark Lance is superior at ranges where the Multi Melta cannot fire... But 24" isn't that hard a range band to be in.
Now, I'm okay with a Multi Melta being better than a Dark Lance, provided the costs are okay. They're not directly competing with one another on the same unit, they're different guns in different armies.
They are different guns - but they'll probably serve the same purpose, shooting the same targets. Points could fix it - but I'm reasonably happy to stand by the argument a 3 lance Ravager at 140 - if it doesn't have new special rules and can't be buffed - isn't going to go do especially well compared with MM units being used competitively at the moment. There are some good targets - and yes, attack bikes are one of them - and that might be the saving grace as its sort of counter meta (even if the meta isn't all Marines) - but I can think of quite a few armies with vaguely respectable invuls where its not going to do well at all.
Leggy wrote: As someone who hasn't managed a game in 9th yet (Lockdowns), am I right in thinking Shredders are an absolute steal?
Assuming it keeps its previous rules too, they're 5 points for 18", Assault D6 Blast, S6, AP-1, D1 that rerolls wounds vs infantry.
To me that's an amazing anti-horde gun, but without game experience in 9th I'd love to hear other opinions.
I mostly pass them up because they're basically just like having 2 more membrers of your squad in rapid fire vs most infantry, and the alternative is a blaster, which just completely upgrades the squad's threat against heavier stuff and makes your opponent pay attention to your cheapo infantry much more.
it's not that it's necessarily a bad gun, just that I've found that having squads with absolutely zero way to harm heavy targets tends to be a little underwhelming. Especially in a marine's world where the shredder being better against heavy infantry than a flamer is kind of undercut by it still being really bad at hurting marines, like everything D1 is.
Going from 12" range to 18" range doesn't change that much just because nothing else in the squad wants to be at 18". if you're at 18", you're cutting the effectiveness of a lot of your dudes by 1/2" and drukhari transports are so fast you can usually be within 12".
I wonder if the Splinter Cannon change might make some more dedicated anti-horde more desirable. While its a regular complaint, at least with the current rules clearing out guardsmen, termagaunts etc with 100+ splinter shots never felt unduly difficult. (Tbf Venom Spam was hurt by Bring It Down, not sure if its made a bit of a comeback following the changes? Not really sure if "Competitive DE" is a thing right now.)
I think if you are not taking blasters there's probably no obvious reason not to slot in Shredders.
Leggy wrote: As someone who hasn't managed a game in 9th yet (Lockdowns), am I right in thinking Shredders are an absolute steal?
Assuming it keeps its previous rules too, they're 5 points for 18", Assault D6 Blast, S6, AP-1, D1 that rerolls wounds vs infantry.
To me that's an amazing anti-horde gun, but without game experience in 9th I'd love to hear other opinions.
I mostly pass them up because they're basically just like having 2 more membrers of your squad in rapid fire vs most infantry, and the alternative is a blaster, which just completely upgrades the squad's threat against heavier stuff and makes your opponent pay attention to your cheapo infantry much more.
it's not that it's necessarily a bad gun, just that I've found that having squads with absolutely zero way to harm heavy targets tends to be a little underwhelming. Especially in a marine's world where the shredder being better against heavy infantry than a flamer is kind of undercut by it still being really bad at hurting marines, like everything D1 is.
Going from 12" range to 18" range doesn't change that much just because nothing else in the squad wants to be at 18". if you're at 18", you're cutting the effectiveness of a lot of your dudes by 1/2" and drukhari transports are so fast you can usually be within 12".
Personally I've found them to be very useful, more so than the Blaster. I dropped the Blasters from my squads after 7th as their ability to randomly one shot something valuable went down considerably and I have tendency to roll nothing but 1's on single dice rolls (except Moral, then it's a 6). Shredders can be useful for extra anti infantry and at 5pts it's not a bad upgrade but I agree that the increase to 18" range doesn't help much with Kabalite squads. Where it will be very useful is Scourge, having only 3" band between the 12" range and having to be more than 9" away made placing them difficult at times, this helps massively and running them on Scourge is far better than Kabs, being able to take multiples off them goes a long way to offsetting the random shots and they've done work for me in tournaments before.
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Tyel wrote: I wonder if the Splinter Cannon change might make some more dedicated anti-horde more desirable. While its a regular complaint, at least with the current rules clearing out guardsmen, termagaunts etc with 100+ splinter shots never felt unduly difficult. (Tbf Venom Spam was hurt by Bring It Down, not sure if its made a bit of a comeback following the changes? Not really sure if "Competitive DE" is a thing right now.)
I think if you are not taking blasters there's probably no obvious reason not to slot in Shredders.
Bring It Down hurt our army no matter how you built your list, it was virtually impossible to build an effective list that didn't give up at least 15VP for BID. The change means it's not as much of a liability now as it used to be but hasn't really effected list building as there was no way around it to begin with.
Interestingly it was never the poison that did the heavy lifting for me in removing hordes, I generally did more with Shredders and Mandrakes.
Not sure if this has been shared in the thread yet, but Drazhar stat leaks are up.
Spoiler:
If he keeps his baseline special rules that he has currently, he's going to be pretty damn tasty in the multi-wound rich environment he's in right now. I'm just glad he finally he has base 5 attacks. About time!
Leggy wrote: Only one weapon profile for Drazhar. Is that a change or do they only show one line when there are multiple choices of attack for a weapon?
Plasma only has one profile on the simplified datasheet. I'm pretty sure Drazhar has both profiles in the Codex.
Mandrakes are probably my main "just re-release them in plastic pls". I think the current models are okay - but I'm not buying more Finecast in 2021.
Luckily there's a zillion awesome AOS models that can easily be mandrakes.
Which ones do you use? Maybe I buy some, as I refuse to buy GW resin and doesn't look as we are having plastic ones right now.
I play Idoneth Deepkin in AoS, but I don't like Thralls as Mandrakes (I know a lot of people do)
I just bought a pack of Idoneth Thralls to use as Mandrakes The other option people use are Sylvaneth Tree Revenants, which I would have used if I didn't already play Sylvaneth in AoS. I saw some really awesome conversions the other day using Thrall bodies, Revenant heads and Incubi weapons, but that's an expensive conversion
Denegaar wrote: Which ones do you use? Maybe I buy some, as I refuse to buy GW resin and doesn't look as we are having plastic ones right now.
I play Idoneth Deepkin in AoS, but I don't like Thralls as Mandrakes (I know a lot of people do)
I think suitably painted Spite revenants/Tree Revenants can work. Dryads themselves would work at a push.
But I feel they are missing something so I've not done it myself. Similar issue with Deepkin Thralls.
Denegaar wrote: Which ones do you use? Maybe I buy some, as I refuse to buy GW resin and doesn't look as we are having plastic ones right now.
I play Idoneth Deepkin in AoS, but I don't like Thralls as Mandrakes (I know a lot of people do)
I think suitably painted Spite revenants/Tree Revenants can work. Dryads themselves would work at a push.
But I feel they are missing something so I've not done it myself. Similar issue with Deepkin Thralls.
Thralls are definitely my choice. Lightly armoured elves with big swords is exactly the required aesthetic. I tried the tree revenants but they still look like they're made of wood so I wasn't happy with them.
I used wych/scourge legs with ghoul bodies and left over wrack arms, I especially liked using the wrack raider pilot arms as they look like they are about to launch a bale blast. The heads are from various dark elf/daughters of kaine kits. Forgive me for not completely finishing the paint job I tend to get my models to 95% complete and move on to something else lol.
Also forgive the jerk grots in the rear taking the focus, I snapped these hastily.
Spoiler:
Also notice the nightfiend (sorry for the bad angle) has 4 arms
I cut the leaves off of tree revenants and painted them in a black and grey scheme with orange glow coming out of the eyes and pointy bits.
And harlequin masks, because my Dark Eldar are harlequin themed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also think you could use Dreadscythe Harridans, Melusai, Namarti, Corvus Cabal, or the new Khainite Shadowstalkers as good Mandrakes.
It might have already been mentioned in this thread, but something I'd really like to see (for Drukhari) is the return of Assault Vehicles. That would truly make the army fast and deadly. We've all seen how fast a Soaring Spite Troupe Master can get into combat this way. It would be flavorful and unique to them and would make them a threat at all times, just about anywhere on the board.
wict01 wrote: So some tentative hope for previews this week, although the video only really mentions a sneak peek at "the lore"......
can't wait to see how the drukhari story - I mean, the Adsrubael Vect Story, who is still most of who the lore is about and who we still have no model for - evolves from here.
wict01 wrote: So some tentative hope for previews this week, although the video only really mentions a sneak peek at "the lore"......
can't wait to see how the drukhari story - I mean, the Adsrubael Vect Story, who is still most of who the lore is about and who we still have no model for - evolves from here.
Get yourselves comfortable, kids, Uncle Vipoid is about to give you a preview of the Dark Eldar storyline:
It begins with the most epic of battles - Adsrubael Vect is playing off against a comparable Space Marine mind, specifically Primaris Lieutenant #1346.
(Of course, to help plug GW's most recent tie-in, the two are playing a game of Magic the Gathering.)
Naturally, Vect was playing mono-black control, his minions many, his kill-spells apparently infinite.
But Primaris Lieutenant #1346 fought back hard. He'd taken heavy losses, losing two units of Intercessors, a squad of Hellblasters(TM), and all his Rievers(TM). But thanks to Protection from Black, he now had two Dreadnoughts(TM) and a Veteran Eliminator(TM) squad still on the board. Vect was clearly on the backfoot. With his Emperor's War Cry Sorcery, Primaris Lieutenant #1346 was all set to deliver the final blow.
But then, Vect reveals his masterstroke - Quicken! Allowing him to play Damnation even during Primaris Lieutenant #1346's turn, and obliterating his entire board.
'Damn,' thought the Lieutenant. 'But it would take a mad genius to play a blue spell in a mono-black deck!'
And it was clear Vect had been just waiting for this opportunity, for only now did he begin to play his Ravager(TM) and Trueborn(TM) cards.
'Wait!' cried Primaris Lieutenant #1346. 'I see your game, Vect, you're cheating. Trueborn isn't even a real card!'
To emphasise the point, Primaris Lieutenant #1346 snatched up Vect's Trueborn(TM?) card and hastily devoured it (or at least mashed it fervently against his helmet).
'No matter,' Vect said with an amused shrug. 'My Ravager(TM) cards have more than enough firepower to finish you off anyway. Now, attack!'
In a gesture that should probably have been accompanied by dramatic music, Vect leaned down and turned the Ravager(TM) cards sideways, to indicate that they were, in fact, attacking.
'Hah!' Primaris Lieutenant #1346 cried, triumphantly. 'Now it's you who've fallen into my trap! I will block one of your Ravagers(TM) with my Cawl(TM) card!'
'What? Impossible! Cawl(TM) is a red card and you have no red mana. No mana at all, in fact!'
'Exactly! I might not have mana, but you have the capacity to make any colour of mana. And you just played Cawl(TM) to my side of the field!'
'What? No! How could I have been so foolish!'
Will Cawl(TM) be enough to save Primaris Lieutenant #1346 from Vect's diabolical deck?
Visit Warhammer Community tomorrow for the thrilling conclusion!
Tbh I hate Vect. I've hated him from 3rd edition. He's just this narrative blackhole which Dark Eldar can't escape - and all other characterisation - and indeed characters - are slowly leached into the void to try and make a guy who isn't even in game seem vaguely awesome to 12 year old edge lords.
Hoping Malys just shanks him, turns him into a table and that its, no more Vect. She then turns to the camera and says "If you want a 2 inch archon model on a massive, impossible to transport mega-Tantalus diorama, why shouldn't it be me."
Tyel wrote: Could join in the bitterness - oh lets do it.
Tbh I hate Vect. I've hated him from 3rd edition. He's just this narrative blackhole which Dark Eldar can't escape - and all other characterisation - and indeed characters - are slowly leached into the void to try and make a guy who isn't even in game seem vaguely awesome to 12 year old edge lords.
Hoping Malys just shanks him, turns him into a table and that its, no more Vect. She then turns to the camera and says "If you want a 2 inch archon model on a massive, impossible to transport mega-Tantalus diorama, why shouldn't it be me."
All joking aside, I don't disagree about Vect.
I don't mind him still being alive, but surely there are plenty of interesting stories that don't involve him?
Tyel wrote: Could join in the bitterness - oh lets do it.
Tbh I hate Vect. I've hated him from 3rd edition. He's just this narrative blackhole which Dark Eldar can't escape - and all other characterisation - and indeed characters - are slowly leached into the void to try and make a guy who isn't even in game seem vaguely awesome to 12 year old edge lords.
Hoping Malys just shanks him, turns him into a table and that its, no more Vect. She then turns to the camera and says "If you want a 2 inch archon model on a massive, impossible to transport mega-Tantalus diorama, why shouldn't it be me."
Yeah, he's just the classic old-GW special character "He's like *insert generic HQ here* but the *insert generic HQ*IEST ONE OF THEM ALL!!!!!"
.....all the remaining Drukhari characters are like that, sadly, except for Drazar, who wears real armor and actually fights good.
It's just endlessly funny to me that he's so fething pumped up and he literally has not existed in the game for going on SEVENTEEN YEARS. yet they keep writing gak about him!
The 8th edition update of the dark eldar storyline was:
-Huge hole in Comorragh, vect declares some kind of martial law or something cruel or something to maintain order
-Vect gets assassinated
-Vect invites a bunch of archons and stuff to his funeral, reveals his deception, eats their souls, becomes SUPER UBER VECT (no you don't even get a piece of art to depict that, someone might make a third party model)
-Vect declares himself the living reincarnation of badass awesomesauce god of dark eldar
So....what was up with all the other drukhari, like maybe the ones we have models for, you ask?
-Lelith is still following yvraine around. No, you can't bring her in a Ynnari detachment, IDIOT, why would you be allowed to do that?
-Urien is ordering a bunch of his monstrous creations to go...do...something. Thrilling.
-Drazar is doing nothing. At the time he was still a finecrap lump, so he didn't get any storyline.
It's beyond bizarre that the dark eldar lore has been "The Tale of Sir Not Appearing In This Film" for so long. If you had a child when GW decided to squat vect's rules and leave him still the protagonist of seemingly every scrap of drukhari lore, that child would now literally be able to drive and die in war.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Souleater wrote: I also hate Vect. He just seems like a massive Mary Sue character.
Can you really call someone a mary sue in 40k lore terms if he literally never appears anywhere or fights anybody or does anything except lord over some weird little corner of the galaxy that never seems to impact anything in the narrative and nobody else ever interacts with?
Souleater wrote: I also hate Vect. He just seems like a massive Mary Sue character.
Some Special Characters in 40k seem to be just a heightened version of the same archetype as the unit they’re built on. Vect, for instance, fits perfectly into the archetype of the archon; scheming overlord that has plots within plots. Just More so than any other. Nothing in his character ventures outside of the established archetype (neither in story or in rules). Lelith is the same, but for wyches. Urien the same for Harmonculi.
To me the most interesting SCs are the once who stand out from the archetype in some way. Necrons got a prtty interesting set of SCs in their 5ed ’Dex, because most of them were Necron Lords. So to distinguish them from one another they had to actually write actual Characters. The same reason is, I think, why Malys and Sliscus are both so much more interesting as People than Vect, who is more an abstract idea, or the embodiment of a concept, than an actual, relatable, person.
Tyel wrote: Could join in the bitterness - oh lets do it.
Tbh I hate Vect. I've hated him from 3rd edition. He's just this narrative blackhole which Dark Eldar can't escape - and all other characterisation - and indeed characters - are slowly leached into the void to try and make a guy who isn't even in game seem vaguely awesome to 12 year old edge lords.
Hoping Malys just shanks him, turns him into a table and that its, no more Vect. She then turns to the camera and says "If you want a 2 inch archon model on a massive, impossible to transport mega-Tantalus diorama, why shouldn't it be me."
Yeah, he's just the classic old-GW special character "He's like *insert generic HQ here* but the *insert generic HQ*IEST ONE OF THEM ALL!!!!!"
.....all the remaining Drukhari characters are like that, sadly, except for Drazar, who wears real armor and actually fights good.
It's just endlessly funny to me that he's so fething pumped up and he literally has not existed in the game for going on SEVENTEEN YEARS. yet they keep writing gak about him!
The 8th edition update of the dark eldar storyline was:
-Huge hole in Comorragh, vect declares some kind of martial law or something cruel or something to maintain order
-Vect gets assassinated
-Vect invites a bunch of archons and stuff to his funeral, reveals his deception, eats their souls, becomes SUPER UBER VECT (no you don't even get a piece of art to depict that, someone might make a third party model)
-Vect declares himself the living reincarnation of badass awesomesauce god of dark eldar
So....what was up with all the other drukhari, like maybe the ones we have models for, you ask?
-Lelith is still following yvraine around. No, you can't bring her in a Ynnari detachment, IDIOT, why would you be allowed to do that?
-Urien is ordering a bunch of his monstrous creations to go...do...something. Thrilling.
-Drazar is doing nothing. At the time he was still a finecrap lump, so he didn't get any storyline.
It's beyond bizarre that the dark eldar lore has been "The Tale of Sir Not Appearing In This Film" for so long. If you had a child when GW decided to squat vect's rules and leave him still the protagonist of seemingly every scrap of drukhari lore, that child would now literally be able to drive and die in war.
The 8th edition update of the dark eldar storyline was:
-Huge hole in Comorragh, vect declares some kind of martial law or something cruel or something to maintain order
-Vect gets assassinated
-Vect invites a bunch of archons and stuff to his funeral, reveals his deception, eats their souls, becomes SUPER UBER VECT (no you don't even get a piece of art to depict that, someone might make a third party model)
-Vect declares himself the living reincarnation of badass awesomesauce god of dark eldar
It's rather a shame, as Vect getting assassinated for real would have almost certainly been more interesting, as other Archons battled to succeed him and maintain control of their fiefdoms.
Could also have opened the possibility of certain Archons breaking Vect's rules - e.g. by courting daemons, by employing psykers or learning psychic powers themselves etc..
Basically the perfect opportunity for the rebirth of the faction.
Alas.
Incidentally, does anyone actually like Vect as a character?
Tyel wrote: Could join in the bitterness - oh lets do it.
Tbh I hate Vect. I've hated him from 3rd edition. He's just this narrative blackhole which Dark Eldar can't escape - and all other characterisation - and indeed characters - are slowly leached into the void to try and make a guy who isn't even in game seem vaguely awesome to 12 year old edge lords.
Hoping Malys just shanks him, turns him into a table and that its, no more Vect. She then turns to the camera and says "If you want a 2 inch archon model on a massive, impossible to transport mega-Tantalus diorama, why shouldn't it be me."
Yeah, he's just the classic old-GW special character "He's like *insert generic HQ here* but the *insert generic HQ*IEST ONE OF THEM ALL!!!!!"
.....all the remaining Drukhari characters are like that, sadly, except for Drazar, who wears real armor and actually fights good.
It's just endlessly funny to me that he's so fething pumped up and he literally has not existed in the game for going on SEVENTEEN YEARS. yet they keep writing gak about him!
The 8th edition update of the dark eldar storyline was:
-Huge hole in Comorragh, vect declares some kind of martial law or something cruel or something to maintain order
-Vect gets assassinated
-Vect invites a bunch of archons and stuff to his funeral, reveals his deception, eats their souls, becomes SUPER UBER VECT (no you don't even get a piece of art to depict that, someone might make a third party model)
-Vect declares himself the living reincarnation of badass awesomesauce god of dark eldar
So....what was up with all the other drukhari, like maybe the ones we have models for, you ask?
-Lelith is still following yvraine around. No, you can't bring her in a Ynnari detachment, IDIOT, why would you be allowed to do that?
-Urien is ordering a bunch of his monstrous creations to go...do...something. Thrilling.
-Drazar is doing nothing. At the time he was still a finecrap lump, so he didn't get any storyline.
It's beyond bizarre that the dark eldar lore has been "The Tale of Sir Not Appearing In This Film" for so long. If you had a child when GW decided to squat vect's rules and leave him still the protagonist of seemingly every scrap of drukhari lore, that child would now literally be able to drive and die in war.
You can drive and enlist at 7 in your home state?
In order to avoid the dishonor of being wrong on the internet and to pretend my brain didnt mix up 2013 and 2003, I will say "yes" and claim that I live in Kyrgyzstan.
vipoid wrote: It's rather a shame, as Vect getting assassinated for real would have almost certainly been more interesting, as other Archons battled to succeed him and maintain control of their fiefdoms.
Could also have opened the possibility of certain Archons breaking Vect's rules - e.g. by courting daemons, by employing psykers or learning psychic powers themselves etc..
Basically the perfect opportunity for the rebirth of the faction.
This basically.
I mean I wouldn't mind if things moved on. Okay Vect's become a living muse? Fine, what does that mean? Okay well fluff wise Dark Eldar have rediscovered religion - and here's a bunch of new religion inspired DE units for you to collect and play with.
I just find it strange because maybe personal taste - but the 2011ish release still holds up. The DE range is excellent. It really therefore shouldn't be hard to breathe a bit of life into it and GW make mad bank. Those molds were paid off in the dark ages of technology.
Is it normal for a codex to be up for pre order in 3 weeks and so far only 2 things have been released about it? the changes to statlines and the how to die in commoragh?
Seems pretty sudden with no build up.
So much could have been done for them, a fracturing of the kabals into their own kingdoms inside the webway where there are shades of black rather than just all black on black.
It just seems like they are putting 0% effort in.
Now the cynicism says this is no surprise, it's just really sad that GW are absolutely unabashedly being public about how little they care about anything non marine.
Hellebore wrote: Is it normal for a codex to be up for pre order in 3 weeks and so far only 2 things have been released about it? the changes to statlines and the how to die in commoragh?
Seems pretty sudden with no build up.
So much could have been done for them, a fracturing of the kabals into their own kingdoms inside the webway where there are shades of black rather than just all black on black.
It just seems like they are putting 0% effort in.
Now the cynicism says this is no surprise, it's just really sad that GW are absolutely unabashedly being public about how little they care about anything non marine.
This is basically where we were at with DG and DA this far out from release. I was just hoping i guess naively that the march release slot would be in my hands later than....oh, with GW shipping times, let's say late april...
Hey, at least when the embargo breaks I can just copy/paste the whole 'dex from a youtube review, thus teaching me to never buy things from GW again.
Hellebore wrote: Is it normal for a codex to be up for pre order in 3 weeks and so far only 2 things have been released about it? the changes to statlines and the how to die in commoragh?
Somewhat normal, but the delayed schedule is throwing it off.
Its a bit weird since they did the Incubi statlines and codex cover back in November before they decided on the delay, and the christmas preview with the Lelith Vs Sisters Lieutenant battle box doesn't help either. From the framework of the Christmas article especially, it seemed like the box was coming around the Hedonite release (the second half of which was shown off in the same article). The incubi/cover preview was with Sigvald and a couple Hedonite units, the Chaos Underworlds warband and the Van Saar hoverboards.
So I think the original plan was for it to be out by now.
And there is also the War Zone Charadon book, which I don't think we've heard _anything_ about since the end of november. But it will somehow have even more Dark eldar rules, as well as Death Guard, Ad Mech and Imperial Knights. Which thinking about it, puts those last two pretty high on the 'will be next' docket. It'd be weird for them to get new rules before an updated codex.
It's a shame. Vect could be another Silent King-style centrepiece miniature. Make the Dias of Destruction really something worth the name, and give him tons of baroque platforms for chained slaves of all races ('cept maybe 'Nids... that wouldn't work).
But no. Here's another Lilith and (probably) wargear options based upon the assembly instructions instead. Enjoy!
Hellebore wrote: Is it normal for a codex to be up for pre order in 3 weeks and so far only 2 things have been released about it? the changes to statlines and the how to die in commoragh?
Somewhat normal, but the delayed schedule is throwing it off.
Its a bit weird since they did the Incubi statlines and codex cover back in November before they decided on the delay, and the christmas preview with the Lelith Vs Sisters Lieutenant battle box doesn't help either. From the framework of the Christmas article especially, it seemed like the box was coming around the Hedonite release (the second half of which was shown off in the same article). The incubi/cover preview was with Sigvald and a couple Hedonite units, the Chaos Underworlds warband and the Van Saar hoverboards.
So I think the original plan was for it to be out by now.
And there is also the War Zone Charadon book, which I don't think we've heard _anything_ about since the end of november. But it will somehow have even more Dark eldar rules, as well as Death Guard, Ad Mech and Imperial Knights. Which thinking about it, puts those last two pretty high on the 'will be next' docket. It'd be weird for them to get new rules before an updated codex.
Back in November during the Decadence & Decay Preview we learned about all of these with Codex Supplement Dark Angels being stated as coming out in early January. That means Codex Drukhari were due out either in late January or early February.
Instead we are waiting for a late March release of Codex Drukhari after a February release fo Dark Angels. We don't even know what is coming out next, which is surprising. No word on War Zone Charadon or hints about the next codexes (possibly Adeptus Mechanicus & Imperial Knights based on Charadon factions).
Regarding the Vect problem they just need to create more proper power players in the city to rival him. He will lose a lot of his overwhelming power if you have other big type Drukhari vying for power. Like if Vraesque Malidrach becomes powerful enough to rival him then Vect won't feel as oppressive.
Regarding the release schedule I think we will have to suffer weirdness in it due to the plague. Although to be fair my wallet is sighing in relief over the sparse release schedule.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a shame. Vect could be another Silent King-style centrepiece miniature. Make the Dias of Destruction really something worth the name, and give him tons of baroque platforms for chained slaves of all races ('cept maybe 'Nids... that wouldn't work).
But no. Here's another Lilith and (probably) wargear options based upon the assembly instructions instead. Enjoy!
That would be cool but no we need a nid slave as well. With a princess leia slave girl outfit, make it a genestealer with many boobs. Yes the evil must flow !
Eldarsif wrote: Regarding the Vect problem they just need to create more proper power players in the city to rival him. He will lose a lot of his overwhelming power if you have other big type Drukhari vying for power. Like if Vraesque Malidrach becomes powerful enough to rival him then Vect won't feel as oppressive.
I mean, we have those already - it wouldn't take much twisting of the lore for Archons like Malys, Aestra, or even Vraesque and Thyndrak to challenge Vect one way or the other. That the potential political intrigue has been minimized in favour of The Asdrubael Vect Show is a damned shame but it's not necessary at all.
I dont want to see some rival for Vect. I like him as a Lord Vetinari level ruler of the Dark Eldar. But I could see the fluff expanding with Dark Eldar society starting to fracture in ways that Vect can't manipulate due to increasing influence of the Ynnari.
Agamemnon2 wrote: A new vect model would be grand, but what the range needs, rather badly, is variety. Give jetbikes to archons, skyboards to succubi.
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
Hey Games Workshop, I don't mind if you want to slip us one of those ol' Necron Cryptek Arcana lists full of vaguely defined, ahem, "special invisible wargear" options for our HQs which we can pay points for.
Here, i'll throw out some ideas:
"Chainwhip Harness" - this drukhari hq has a special harness made out of the silk of a secret species of spider that spins webs so strong they decapitate random citizens of Comorragh, they're called "Job Creator Spiders" by decree of the Comorragh Severed Head and Viscera Janitorial Union.
When this model embarks on a TRANSPORT keyword model, it doesn't take up a transport slot and its aura abilities may still be used drawing distance from the transport vehicle.
"Pocket Dimension Webway Translocuterator" - this drukhari HQ has a special invisible force field generator that allows it to slip in and out of the webway short distances though they may appear to be simply standing imperiously posed atop a small piece of rock.
The movement characteristic of this model becomes 16, they automatically move 6" when they Advance, and they gain the Fly rule. Also, the field is highly toxic when they appear so they're equipped with an additional weapon that is rapid fire 1 S2 AP- D1 with the Poison Weapon rule, but it doesn't have a model. It's just the poison coming naturally from the invisible field gas.
"Cheechdari and Cho'long's Special Stuff" - this drukhari HQ is on a secret stash of good good combat drugs that let you pay more points for him and he's actually good enough to duel other factions' HQs.
All their melee weapons get +1D, and he gets +1A, +1S and +1W
Agamemnon2 wrote: A new vect model would be grand, but what the range needs, rather badly, is variety. Give jetbikes to archons, skyboards to succubi.
At this point I'll just be grateful if we get plastic Grotesques. That's how badly GW has treated Drukhari.
I thought we already had plastic grotesques?
Just for some reason GW perpetually mislabels them as Crypt Horrors.
Well done sir!
I would rather see a new Mandrake kit than Grotesques. I can dream that they will do a box with new Mandrakes vs new Striking Scorpions, also featuring plastic sculpts for Kheradruakh and Karandras.
Don't care for the Crypt Horrors all that much, but that has me looking at the other undead in place of the Heamonculi Coven stuff. Never liked the whole wannabe Cenobite body horror aspect of Drukhari, nor the Ossiarch Bonereapers for AoS, but Ossiarch for Dark Eldar...hmmm...a coven of corrupted Eldar Bonesingers? Yeah...
Mortek Guard converted with weapons swaps and putty over the silly grins would make some great Wracks at half the price of the actual models. Morghast Harbingers for Talos, Necropolis Stalkers for Grotesques, Boneshaper as a heamonculi/Bonesinger. I like it! Plus the bone-white will play nicely against the black armor from the rest of my Drukhari.
Player 1: "She's rubbish."
Player 2: "She might have more special abilities though. Like rerolling to wound and so on."
Player 1: "She does 1 damage. One. How's she going to kill any Marine with an invul save (so all of them at this point?)"
Player 2: "Uh, well, maybe she ignores invul saves? And there are other factions you know. She could kill a lot of boys. Or Fire Warriors"
Player 1. "She could kill fire Warriors. Be still my thrice accursed black heart."
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a shame. Vect could be another Silent King-style centrepiece miniature. Make the Dias of Destruction really something worth the name, and give him tons of baroque platforms for chained slaves of all races ('cept maybe 'Nids... that wouldn't work).
If the Iron Warriors can figure out a way to cut off a Bioship from the Hivemind and enslave it, I'm sure Vect could find a way to do it to individual Nids. Fairly certain the Wyches already do that for the arena.
At 90pts she's okayish so far. Obviously very dependent on what we haven't been shown (and there's a LOT of that - The rest of her profile, power from pain, Cult of Strife faction rules, strategems, mono army bonus, transport options, supporting units).
She'll kill 3 marines per fight phase from what we do know. Not outstanding, but acceptable.
Yeah, Vs regular marines she does 2.8 wounds twice per combat round assuming you chose gory spectacle.
More with power from pain buffs, assuming +S is still there.
As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Lelith - not keen on new model (luckily still have older one) and as others have said need to see what her abilities are like to tell if she is back to glory days.
Imateria wrote: As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
D1 with 7 attacks and unmodified hit rolls of 6 added an additional hit is nothing to really sneeze at.
The new Lelith stats are k. I just wish they'd lift her to str 5 without any combat drugs so she could wound marines on 3s.
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Dysartes wrote: At least the article confirmed the box is going on pre-order on March 20th.
It could be that since she is coming out before the SoB codex launches they will give her a more older generation generic ability that will then be replaced by the datasheet in the eventual codex.
Because if they throw the Core keyword at her she will be unable to buff anything as nothing currently has core in the codex.
Thrilling Acrobatics is something I really don't want to see tied to a specific special character, but other than that she seems... alright?
Granted, I've yet to see anything that would make me rush to use her (especially with the new Loleth Hamthighs model), but she at least looks like she might be decent for fans of the character.
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting no mention of "Core" in the Palatine.
I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Lelith - not keen on new model (luckily still have older one) and as others have said need to see what her abilities are like to tell if she is back to glory days.
We don't have new codex yet. Had palatine had core restiction she would do nothing on release as no sob has core.
Same as new necron models not having core restriction until codex
It would have been interesting had it mentioned core. That would tell sob codex comes same day as this.
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting no mention of "Core" in the Palatine.
I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Lelith - not keen on new model (luckily still have older one) and as others have said need to see what her abilities are like to tell if she is back to glory days.
We don't have new codex yet. Had palatine had core restiction she would do nothing on release as no sob has core.
Same as new necron models not having core restriction until codex
It would have been interesting had it mentioned core. That would tell sob codex comes same day as this.
We already know P&P drops on the same day as the DE 'dex - if they were planning to move back to two Codexes dropping on the same month (let alone day), I imagine they'd've been shouting about it already.
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting no mention of "Core" in the Palatine.
Likely not that interesting in the end. Sisters don't have 'Core' in their book. Releasing this model with rules that only impact 'Core' units would make her unusable with the current Codex.
I'd expect 'Core' to make an appearance in both the Palatine rules and general Sisters rules once they get their new book.
Mr Morden wrote: I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Eldarsif wrote: The new Lelith stats are k. I just wish they'd lift her to str 5 without any combat drugs so she could wound marines on 3s.
She's S4, at least, with her blades giving her +1S.
That's not an insignificant thing for an Elf.
It would help if you had any clue about the characters old rules. She could already hit at S4, with AP-4 and thanks to her old warlord trait making 6's to hit count as 3 hits she averaged 9 hits on the charge. With the 6's to hit ability baked into her datasheet now I'm expecting the warlord trait to change so she actually hits less than before and though she can fight twice she has to survive the counter attacks first.
Hitting has never been her problem, at S4 and D1 wounding and killing anything other than chaff has been very difficult, and for a gladiator who is supposed to specialise in 1 on 1 combat it's utterly ridiculous.
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting no mention of "Core" in the Palatine.
Likely not that interesting in the end. Sisters don't have 'Core' in their book. Releasing this model with rules that only impact 'Core' units would make her unusable with the current Codex.
I'd expect 'Core' to make an appearance in both the Palatine rules and general Sisters rules once they get their new book.
Mr Morden wrote: I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Do you even have to ask?
Well Plasma Pistol + Power Sword is very easy to kitbash from regular sisters if you dislike that kit.
Eldarsif wrote: The new Lelith stats are k. I just wish they'd lift her to str 5 without any combat drugs so she could wound marines on 3s.
She's S4, at least, with her blades giving her +1S.
That's not an insignificant thing for an Elf.
It would help if you had any clue about the characters old rules. She could already hit at S4, with AP-4 and thanks to her old warlord trait making 6's to hit count as 3 hits she averaged 9 hits on the charge. With the 6's to hit ability baked into her datasheet now I'm expecting the warlord trait to change so she actually hits less than before and though she can fight twice she has to survive the counter attacks first.
Well, seeing as how at the very least she has a passive ability that lets her: -Charge even if Fell Back or Advanced OR -Fight again at the end of combat if destroyed an enemy model
Hitting has never been her problem, at S4 and D1 wounding and killing anything other than chaff has been very difficult, and for a gladiator who is supposed to specialise in 1 on 1 combat it's utterly ridiculous.
Maybe if you ask nicely then people will line up and attack her one at a time?
She's S4 AP-3 with nothing but her knives for a modifier. She's hitting 7 times, with her natural 6s inflicting an additional hit. If you think that's nothing, cool. It isn't though. If you're not throwing her against Marine units but instead throwing her against characters? That's 7 attacks at 2+'s, with an AP of -3 inflicting 1 damage a pop with natural hit rolls of 6 inflicting an additional hit. I'm sure someone would be happy to show the math--but she's a character killer.
Not sure why I should really care about her "old rules" given that we have new ones coming.
Eldarsif wrote: The new Lelith stats are k. I just wish they'd lift her to str 5 without any combat drugs so she could wound marines on 3s.
She's S4, at least, with her blades giving her +1S.
That's not an insignificant thing for an Elf.
It would help if you had any clue about the characters old rules. She could already hit at S4, with AP-4 and thanks to her old warlord trait making 6's to hit count as 3 hits she averaged 9 hits on the charge. With the 6's to hit ability baked into her datasheet now I'm expecting the warlord trait to change so she actually hits less than before and though she can fight twice she has to survive the counter attacks first.
Hitting has never been her problem, at S4 and D1 wounding and killing anything other than chaff has been very difficult, and for a gladiator who is supposed to specialise in 1 on 1 combat it's utterly ridiculous.
Might have been better to cause Mortal Wounds on 6's.
Ignoring her explosive 6s she is downing 1.2 marines per assault or 2.4 if you account her double attack if she kills a model.
If she goes against a character with a 4++ save then her lethality goes down to 0.365(0.486 against 5++), again ignoring explosive 6s. That's... nothing special to speak of.
Mind you this is only with what we know as there might be a plethora of extra rules that might follow.
Eldarsif wrote: Ignoring her explosive 6s she is downing 1.2 marines per assault or 2.4 if you account her double attack if she kills a model.
If she goes against a character with a 4++ save then her lethality goes down to 0.365(0.486 against 5++), again ignoring explosive 6s. That's... nothing special to speak of.
Mind you this is only with what we know as there might be a plethora of extra rules that might follow.
I hope so. So far most of the stuff seems to be rolling her old rules into the her base Attacks or the weapon's Strength and AP. Even then her AP has had a downgrade, as before it was -4.
I thought her whole theme was showing how she was so good she could pick out the weakpoints in fancy power armor using just a set of ordinary knives.
Eldarsif wrote: Ignoring her explosive 6s she is downing 1.2 marines per assault or 2.4 if you account her double attack if she kills a model.
If she goes against a character with a 4++ save then her lethality goes down to 0.365(0.486 against 5++), again ignoring explosive 6s. That's... nothing special to speak of.
Mind you this is only with what we know as there might be a plethora of extra rules that might follow.
I hope so. So far most of the stuff seems to be rolling her old rules into the her base Attacks or the weapon's Strength and AP. Even then her AP has had a downgrade, as before it was -4.
I thought her whole theme was showing how she was so good she could pick out the weakpoints in fancy power armor using just a set of ordinary knives.
I agree. With what we've seen she is okay at blending T3 with bad armor and not much else. She'll blend through 8 Hormagaunts with her current stats and second attack included. I mean, she's going to be fine against other Eldar, but against the reigning meta she's not going to do much.
I do think that GW has put themselves into a bit of a bind by making Marines so strong and at 2 wounds. One can't help but compare everything to Marine stats.
Eldarsif wrote: Ignoring her explosive 6s she is downing 1.2 marines per assault or 2.4 if you account her double attack if she kills a model.
If she goes against a character with a 4++ save then her lethality goes down to 0.365(0.486 against 5++), again ignoring explosive 6s. That's... nothing special to speak of.
Mind you this is only with what we know as there might be a plethora of extra rules that might follow.
I hope so. So far most of the stuff seems to be rolling her old rules into the her base Attacks or the weapon's Strength and AP. Even then her AP has had a downgrade, as before it was -4.
I thought her whole theme was showing how she was so good she could pick out the weakpoints in fancy power armor using just a set of ordinary knives.
I agree. With what we've seen she is okay at blending T3 with bad armor and not much else. She'll blend through 8 Hormagaunts with her current stats and second attack included. I mean, she's going to be fine against other Eldar, but against the reigning meta she's not going to do much.
I do think that GW has put themselves into a bit of a bind by making Marines so strong and at 2 wounds. One can't help but compare everything to Marine stats.
yeah, one of the strongest CQC character in the lore, ffs
But Jain zar, one of the strongest melee phoenix lord can kill 2/3 marine if you roll good enought, soo...
The only really good rule you can give her is that she ignores all saves, otherwise she will die to any semi-decent cqc unit before she can attack again at the end of the phase
Imateria wrote: As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
...but she totally can do that. She beats AFAIK any standard marine captain loadout, up to and including TH/SS, she just takes both fight phases in a battle round to do it.
She can't one shot him, true, she only deals 3/5 unsaved wounds on average.
Imateria wrote: As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
...but she totally can do that. She beats AFAIK any standard marine captain loadout, up to and including TH/SS, she just takes both fight phases in a battle round to do it.
She can't one shot him, true, she only deals 3/5 unsaved wounds on average.
So I think its a fair assumption that any aura she ends up with will not effect herself. So even if succubi continue to provide a re roll to hit she won't benefit herself.
She misses on 1's but gets 2 hits on a 6. Essentially she has 7 attacks that average 7 hits then at strength 4. So she will inflict 3.5 wounds before saves verse T4.
Any marine captain is going to have a minimum of a 4++ and 6 wounds. So her ap being -3 and no longer -4 won't factor as much in this instance and ironically makes her worse at killing line infantry lol. Thats 1.75 wounds after saves and she can't fight again as she didn't kill anything.
No idea how your figuring she kills a captain of any variety, it's even worse if the captain is in gravis lol.
Well, I hope to expect extra rules for her hair, quicksilver dodge, Combat drug synergy and a suitably killy warlord trait. I think she'll be decent. She's currently 90pts iirc.
obviously I'm assuming she'll keep her current "A League Apart" and "Quicksilver Dodge" rules, like how Drazar kept his Lethal Precision rule and Tormenters rule despite those not being previewed, and how Jain Zar kept her War Shout and Acrobatic rule despite those not being previewed.
This is just how GW tends to preview new models for existing units, unless the full statblock gets leaked. They talk about the new rules and the rules that got changed.
Imateria wrote: As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
...but she totally can do that. She beats AFAIK any standard marine captain loadout, up to and including TH/SS, she just takes both fight phases in a battle round to do it.
She can't one shot him, true, she only deals 3/5 unsaved wounds on average.
So I think its a fair assumption that any aura she ends up with will not effect herself. So even if succubi continue to provide a re roll to hit she won't benefit herself.
She misses on 1's but gets 2 hits on a 6. Essentially she has 7 attacks that average 7 hits then at strength 4. So she will inflict 3.5 wounds before saves verse T4.
Any marine captain is going to have a minimum of a 4++ and 6 wounds. So her ap being -3 and no longer -4 won't factor as much in this instance and ironically makes her worse at killing line infantry lol. Thats 1.75 wounds after saves and she can't fight again as she didn't kill anything.
No idea how your figuring she kills a captain of any variety, it's even worse if the captain is in gravis lol.
Even assuming she keeps her ability to reroll hit and wound rolls against Characters that only pushes her up to 3 wounds against a T4, 4++ characters and less than 2 against anything T5, 4++.
Rinkydink wrote: Well, I hope to expect extra rules for her hair, quicksilver dodge, Combat drug synergy and a suitably killy warlord trait. I think she'll be decent. She's currently 90pts iirc.
Lelith does not use Combat Drugs - thats kinda her thing IIRC.
Imateria wrote: As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
...but she totally can do that. She beats AFAIK any standard marine captain loadout, up to and including TH/SS, she just takes both fight phases in a battle round to do it.
She can't one shot him, true, she only deals 3/5 unsaved wounds on average.
She doesn't get both fight phases in that fight. She only gets a second fight phase if she destroys a model. Which is fine if you want to murder guardsmen, but useless one-on-one.
the_scotsman wrote: obviously I'm assuming she'll keep her current "A League Apart" and "Quicksilver Dodge" rules, like how Drazar kept his Lethal Precision rule and Tormenters rule despite those not being previewed, and how Jain Zar kept her War Shout and Acrobatic rule despite those not being previewed.
This is just how GW tends to preview new models for existing units, unless the full statblock gets leaked. They talk about the new rules and the rules that got changed.
Why would you assume those things?
She had Natural perfection and they just debunked your theory in this preview as it changed.
BTW I will be shocked if Drazhar still fights twice. The fact that they gave Lelith a fight twice ability with much higher restrictions makes me even more confident in those feelings.
Imateria wrote: As usual, GW are making sure the galaxy's premier gladiator couldn't fight a random space marine captain to a standstill, D1 on the knives is the real problem here.
...but she totally can do that. She beats AFAIK any standard marine captain loadout, up to and including TH/SS, she just takes both fight phases in a battle round to do it.
She can't one shot him, true, she only deals 3/5 unsaved wounds on average.
So I think its a fair assumption that any aura she ends up with will not effect herself. So even if succubi continue to provide a re roll to hit she won't benefit herself.
She misses on 1's but gets 2 hits on a 6. Essentially she has 7 attacks that average 7 hits then at strength 4. So she will inflict 3.5 wounds before saves verse T4.
Any marine captain is going to have a minimum of a 4++ and 6 wounds. So her ap being -3 and no longer -4 won't factor as much in this instance and ironically makes her worse at killing line infantry lol. Thats 1.75 wounds after saves and she can't fight again as she didn't kill anything.
No idea how your figuring she kills a captain of any variety, it's even worse if the captain is in gravis lol.
Even assuming she keeps her ability to reroll hit and wound rolls against Characters that only pushes her up to 3 wounds against a T4, 4++ characters and less than 2 against anything T5, 4++.
Exactly, and her double fight relying on destroyed models makes her very awkward to use even verse massed infantry once you consider how successful charges are completely verse multiple targets and then how casualty removal and pile ins work.
BTW the single damage makes her tough even verse things with a 6+++ like Ork boyz near a painboy, GSC near a banner or other DE if PFP still works the same.
Don't even get me started with necrons, she will bounce off them in spectacular fashion. Especially warriors, even in min units sizes since they will reanimate in between her attack sequences.
Voss wrote: She doesn't get both fight phases in that fight. She only gets a second fight phase if she destroys a model. Which is fine if you want to murder guardsmen, but useless one-on-one.
If you assume she gets 8 attacks rerolling all hits and wounds, she should get 9.33 hits (someone check this), 7 wounds, so 3.5ish go through a 4++ save. That's not too bad - and you don't need to fluke the luck too much to do 5.
There's a lot of ifs, but she could be okay on the table if remaining at 90ish points.
Voss wrote: She doesn't get both fight phases in that fight. She only gets a second fight phase if she destroys a model. Which is fine if you want to murder guardsmen, but useless one-on-one.
If you assume she gets 8 attacks rerolling all hits and wounds, she should get 9.33 hits (someone check this), 7 wounds, so 3.5ish go through a 4++ save. That's not too bad - and you don't need to fluke the luck too much to do 5.
There's a lot of ifs, but she could be okay on the table if remaining at 90ish points.
Without those rules its quite a bit worse.
She needs two things for my money.
1. The impaler to remain an option (needs to be on the sprue so I am doubtful)
2. She needs to keep her current league apart rerolls.
I'll fully admit it's still too early to completely call it, but working with what we know right now she isn't really anything special. A pair of shredders handle light infantry better, from a safe range and earlier in the turn and she will bounce off all but scrub level characters. Which is kind of sad coming from a cyber punk murder gladiator who's entire shtick is one v one dueling.
Lelith is 7 attacks at WS2+, S4, AP-3, D1, 6s to-hit generate an extra hit.
Without rerolls, she gets 1 hit per attack on average.
With rerolls, she gets 7/6 hits per attack, for 8 and 1/6th hit in a round.
Against MEQ (no rerolls) she does 3.5 wounds and 2.92 damage. Enough to body a Marine on average.
Assuming 7 hits (since I don't know how to do exploding 6s on Anydice) she has an 86.21% chance of killing at least one Marine, netting her a second round of fighting. Also a 32.27% chance of killing two, and a measly 2.35% chance of three. (Assuming the MEQ have no defensive buffs.)
Against a Captain (T4, 3+/4++) she does 3.5 wounds and 1.75 damage.
With full rerolls, she does 3.06 damage.
Anydice says that with 8 hits, she has a 13.74% chance of doing 5 wounds and a 3.60% chance of 6 wounds.
Anydice says that with 9 hits, she has a 21.66% chance of doing 5 wounds, and a 7.40% chance of 6 wounds.
Up the Captain to T5, and the odds change to...
8 hits: 4.24% chance of 5 wounds, .75% of 6 wounds, and .08% chance of 7 wounds
9 hits: 7.39% chance of 5 wounds, 1.72% chance of 6 wounds, and .26% chance of 7 wounds
Considering the massive variety in Captain builds, if someone wants me to run a duel between them, let me know what build is preferred.
JNAProductions wrote: Assuming 7 hits (since I don't know how to do exploding 6s on Anydice).
2+ to hit and exploding dice makes it auto-hit on average as for every 1 you get a 6 that adds the lost attack back
I know that. I said that. But there are times where you'll miss an attack and not generate an extra to make up for it, or times when you hit with everything and get extras. I don't know how to put that into anydice, and doing it by hand would be REALLY tedious.
JNAProductions wrote: Assuming 7 hits (since I don't know how to do exploding 6s on Anydice).
2+ to hit and exploding dice makes it auto-hit on average as for every 1 you get a 6 that adds the lost attack back
That's good if you want to determine average amount of damage. Less if you want to calculate odds of causing X damage which is often more relevant info.
Not adding much, but by my calculations, with 8 attacks (assuming strife, may change), exploding 6s and reroll hits and wounds she has approximately a 20% chance to do 5 wounds to a T4 4++ character. So you wouldn't need much of an additional buff to take things over into quite reasonable.
Tyel wrote: Not adding much, but by my calculations, with 8 attacks (assuming strife, may change), exploding 6s and reroll hits and wounds she has approximately a 20% chance to do 5 wounds to a T4 4++ character. So you wouldn't need much of an additional buff to take things over into quite reasonable.
I mean, you already needed 3 special rules to get to that 20% chance.
Imateria wrote: I mean, you already needed 3 special rules to get to that 20% chance.
I guess never say never when it comes to DE, but I'd expect she'd retain the rerolls and *some* form of chapter tactic.
Since I expect power from pain to be reworked *AND* (I know, greedy), DE to get a whole new mechanic to rival doctrines/protocols/Nurgle's Gift, there's clear scope for something that boosts her offensive power. (See also stratagems etc that could just make her 2 damage or something.)
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting no mention of "Core" in the Palatine.
I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Lelith - not keen on new model (luckily still have older one) and as others have said need to see what her abilities are like to tell if she is back to glory days.
To me it seems likely its worded that way to match the current sisters codex, which currently has no Core keyworded units, which could also imply Sisters arent getting an updated codex just yet. Admech didnt get a new codex with all their units with Engine War, the same could be said for Sisters. It would be rather annoying and stupid for them to do that but I wouldnt put it past GW.
Remember this box was supposed to be out months ago, as was the DE codex, then there was the preview with the new SoB mech which means a codex is definitely soonish but the box likely still has all the old paperwork for the original release date so they want that out before the new codex to avoid causing even greater confusion by doing it the other way around, or even simultaneously.
Mr_Rose wrote: Remember this box was supposed to be out months ago, as was the DE codex, then there was the preview with the new SoB mech which means a codex is definitely soonish but the box likely still has all the old paperwork for the original release date so they want that out before the new codex to avoid causing even greater confusion by doing it the other way around, or even simultaneously.
Yeah.
Production problems could obviously shift things around, but based on what we've seen I'd expect Orks/Ad Mech/Sisters to be the next wave of codexes - order to be determined.
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting no mention of "Core" in the Palatine.
I wonder if we are (as normal now with GW) no options.
Lelith - not keen on new model (luckily still have older one) and as others have said need to see what her abilities are like to tell if she is back to glory days.
To me it seems likely its worded that way to match the current sisters codex, which currently has no Core keyworded units, which could also imply Sisters arent getting an updated codex just yet. Admech didnt get a new codex with all their units with Engine War, the same could be said for Sisters. It would be rather annoying and stupid for them to do that but I wouldnt put it past GW.
We got new necron rules like new overlord with zero mention of core despite new necron codex being known.
It just means codex isnt' coming literally on same day as palatine is out. Aka no preorder on 20th. That's all.
If it had core it would be USELESS until codex comes. Same as necron abilities would have been USELESS had they had core right from the get go rather than coming with codex.
You are overthinking. For all the article reveals sister codex could be preorder on 27th.
Mr_Rose wrote: Remember this box was supposed to be out months ago, as was the DE codex, then there was the preview with the new SoB mech which means a codex is definitely soonish but the box likely still has all the old paperwork for the original release date so they want that out before the new codex to avoid causing even greater confusion by doing it the other way around, or even simultaneously.
Yeah.
Production problems could obviously shift things around, but based on what we've seen I'd expect Orks/Ad Mech/Sisters to be the next wave of codexes - order to be determined.
I'd assume Admech (we have seen box art in the new style, and they are included in Charadon) first, then orks (new models have been teased for them alongside the new admech, lelith, and Palatine who is coming out in a battlebox), and sisters last of the three (Sisturians shown off more recently than the other models)
Daemons could also sneak in somewhere pretty easily to tie into Belakor with a 40k release- would be an easy codex plus cards only release.
I remember there being a marine chapter playing whack-a-mole with the arch-arsonists, every time they assumed they got him, another one popped up. Does anyone remember who they were?
Jidmah wrote: I remember there being a marine chapter playing whack-a-mole with the arch-arsonists, every time they assumed they got him, another one popped up. Does anyone remember who they were?
Well in 5ed Ork Codex it was specifically Ultramarines that were keeping orks in check by doing that.
Thanks. Makes sense considering how close they are to Ultramar. I guess we will be sharing our book with the poster boys once again, can't wait to have yet another book with a beheaded ork in its cover
Don't worry, at least you know if Guard and Ork share a book it'll probably feature a pic of some weedy guard charging a huge Ork that will inevitably kill him right dead. You know the Marines will just take all the heads for themselves.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Don't worry, at least you know if Guard and Ork share a book it'll probably feature a pic of some weedy guard charging a huge Ork that will inevitably kill him right dead. You know the Marines will just take all the heads for themselves.
To be fair, guard victories don't make for good cover images - it would just be landscape of craters
AngryAngel80 wrote: Don't worry, at least you know if Guard and Ork share a book it'll probably feature a pic of some weedy guard charging a huge Ork that will inevitably kill him right dead. You know the Marines will just take all the heads for themselves.
To be fair, guard victories don't make for good cover images - it would just be landscape of craters
Every guard player loves that victory image though !
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
No, but it does help a bit when entire squads of troops no longer have less attacks than 2 marines on bikes.
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
I love the wording around that part too.
"So whether you like to field Wyches, Hellions, ...
...
...
oR eVeN a CrOnOs..."
(What a freak you must be, why would you field this awesome model with garbage rules that we can't be bothered to actually overhaul so we gave it an extra attack and jobs a good'un)
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
No, but it does help a bit when entire squads of troops no longer have less attacks than 2 marines on bikes.
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
Be still my heart!
I think you're massively overselling hellions here, lol. They're more like the goons in Back to the Future part 2 than what you described.
Crimson wrote: Well, the thing about making it easier to combine the different facet of the army is definitely good news.
It depends how the 'easier' is accomplished. Especially since its specifically 'easier to do without spending all your command points.'
So it could be 'must take 3 patrol detachments, but you get CP refunds' and that technically fulfills requirements.
Souleater wrote: I also hate Vect. He just seems like a massive Mary Sue character.
Some Special Characters in 40k seem to be just a heightened version of the same archetype as the unit they’re built on. Vect, for instance, fits perfectly into the archetype of the archon; scheming overlord that has plots within plots. Just More so than any other. Nothing in his character ventures outside of the established archetype (neither in story or in rules).
Lelith is the same, but for wyches. Urien the same for Harmonculi.
To me the most interesting SCs are the once who stand out from the archetype in some way.
Necrons got a prtty interesting set of SCs in their 5ed ’Dex, because most of them were Necron Lords. So to distinguish them from one another they had to actually write actual Characters.
The same reason is, I think, why Malys and Sliscus are both so much more interesting as People than Vect, who is more an abstract idea, or the embodiment of a concept, than an actual, relatable, person.
Necron have enough interesting characters that a book involving literally just a bunch of Necrons is one of the best things Black Library put out in recent times
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
No, but it does help a bit when entire squads of troops no longer have less attacks than 2 marines on bikes.
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
Be still my heart!
I think you're massively overselling hellions here, lol. They're more like the goons in Back to the Future part 2 than what you described.
InVerno wrote: I dunno how DE could stand theyr ground with the likes of SM or necron with the information we have now
i hope i am wrong
Although I am generally pessimistic we could very well get some armywide buff that hasn't been revealed. Much like Death Guard did. I remember people wondering how Death Guard would compete after the initial reveals, but after we got all the info it is a good and fun codex. I personally hope Drukhari get the same level of love as Death Guard.
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
No, but it does help a bit when entire squads of troops no longer have less attacks than 2 marines on bikes.
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
Be still my heart!
I think you're massively overselling hellions here, lol. They're more like the goons in Back to the Future part 2 than what you described.
How do you figure that?
I thought the lore for hellions was literally the DE equivalent of teenage skateboard gangs? They're the street punks that aren't rich enough to own reaver jetbikes yet, so they fly around Commorragh snatching purses and huffing whippits until their parole officer lets them tag along for a realspace raid to work off their delinquency community service.
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
No, but it does help a bit when entire squads of troops no longer have less attacks than 2 marines on bikes.
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
Be still my heart!
I think you're massively overselling hellions here, lol. They're more like the goons in Back to the Future part 2 than what you described.
How do you figure that?
What? Confusing Drukhari equivalents of Oliver Twist with genetically enhanced super soldiers? Yeah, he's overselling Hellions and under selling marines, even a devastator marine. Now, granted, as someone who owns 10 hellions, would I like them improved? Sure, but let's not pretend they are Space Wolves on flying discs wielding heavy thunder hammers.
Iracundus wrote: Of course they hint at new Crusade rules, though the description sounds awfully like playing a Dark Eldar version of Necromunda.
Promises, promises. If ever there was a setting to use Necromunda-like rules it would be Commorragh. Sadly, GW's marketing vastly outshines their rules writing...
vipoid wrote: The Cronos now has an extra S5 AP-1 D1 attack!
Truly our faction is whole again.
No, but it does help a bit when entire squads of troops no longer have less attacks than 2 marines on bikes.
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
Be still my heart!
I think you're massively overselling hellions here, lol. They're more like the goons in Back to the Future part 2 than what you described.
How do you figure that?
What? Confusing Drukhari equivalents of Oliver Twist with genetically enhanced super soldiers? Yeah, he's overselling Hellions and under selling marines, even a devastator marine. Now, granted, as someone who owns 10 hellions, would I like them improved? Sure, but let's not pretend they are Space Wolves on flying discs wielding heavy thunder hammers.
Lets not start building straw men just because I asked for clarification on something incredibly vague that YOU said in what I am assuming was an attempt at humor.
I don't recall seeing any demands for hellions to be flying, dual hammer wielding space wolves anywhere. Maybe you can point it out for me if I did. I did see someone a tad underwhelmed with a dedicated fire support unit (like say a fat, old, long in the fang space wolf with both hands occupied with a motorcycle sized canon) having the same number of attacks in melee as a dedicated assault unit, with a penchant for high risk combat and faster then marine reflexes without adding the drug cocktail.
Hellions BTW are not just youths, they are out casts and rebels that don't want to fit in with the general organizations. Basically they biker gang members only on sky-boards. It's also humorous that your assuming the youth of a alien species that lives literally thousands of years is somehow similar to humans that live only decades. Pretty sure a young adult eldar is still an incredibly wide margin of ages and relatively old compared to human context. BTW Vect arose from the very same stock.
As an aside do you think younger soldiers should have less attacks then older ones? lol because thats general not how nature works sadly.
Lets not start building straw men just because I asked for clarification on something incredibly vague that YOU said in what I am assuming was an attempt at humor.
I don't recall seeing any demands for hellions to be flying, dual hammer wielding space wolves anywhere. Maybe you can point it out for me if I did. I did see someone a tad underwhelmed with a dedicated fire support unit (like say a fat, old, long in the fang space wolf with both hands occupied with a motorcycle sized canon) having the same number of attacks in melee as a dedicated assault unit, with a penchant for high risk combat and faster then marine reflexes without adding the drug cocktail. .
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The fact that Hellblasters make an equivalent number of attacks with...I mean it's gotta be their feet, right? They're busting out sweet tae bo moves or something? as the dedicated assault units of the faction that's fluffed as the "ultra fast" army is just....I mean, come on.
They're a melee unit with D2 weapons. The fact that they get absolutely slam dunked by literally all of by far the most common units in the game with W2 is a glaring problem.
Sotahullu wrote: I just wonder what do they mean about Drukhari becoming more "friendly" in that article. Are they going to change Raiding Force or something else?
Although I don't think they will add extra warning page like in 5ed Codex...
Sotahullu wrote: I just wonder what do they mean about Drukhari becoming more "friendly" in that article. Are they going to change Raiding Force or something else?
Although I don't think they will add extra warning page like in 5ed Codex...
My bet is on something like:
In a Drukhari detachment:
If all <<Kabal>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Kabal>>, they gain their Kabal Obsession.
If all <<Coven>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Coven>>, they gain their Coven Obsession.
If all <<Cult>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Cult>>, they gain their Cult Obsession.
It would be simple, clean, and not prone to too much abuse. You'd still need multiple detachments to benefit from multiples of a Kabal, Coven, or Cult obsession while allowing all three in one detachment.
Sotahullu wrote: I just wonder what do they mean about Drukhari becoming more "friendly" in that article. Are they going to change Raiding Force or something else?
Although I don't think they will add extra warning page like in 5ed Codex...
Warning page ?
Well not warning really but rather that it flat out says that it is not beginner friendly army and it follows up few guidelines how to play it. Its the only codex from 5ed that does it, atleast I don't remember other books doing that.
Sotahullu wrote: I just wonder what do they mean about Drukhari becoming more "friendly" in that article. Are they going to change Raiding Force or something else?
Although I don't think they will add extra warning page like in 5ed Codex...
My bet is on something like:
In a Drukhari detachment:
If all <<Kabal>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Kabal>>, they gain their Kabal Obsession.
If all <<Coven>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Coven>>, they gain their Coven Obsession.
If all <<Cult>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Cult>>, they gain their Cult Obsession.
It would be simple, clean, and not prone to too much abuse. You'd still need multiple detachments to benefit from multiples of a Kabal, Coven, or Cult obsession while allowing all three in one detachment.
Sotahullu wrote: I just wonder what do they mean about Drukhari becoming more "friendly" in that article. Are they going to change Raiding Force or something else?
Although I don't think they will add extra warning page like in 5ed Codex...
My bet is on something like:
In a Drukhari detachment:
If all <<Kabal>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Kabal>>, they gain their Kabal Obsession.
If all <<Coven>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Coven>>, they gain their Coven Obsession.
If all <<Cult>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Cult>>, they gain their Cult Obsession.
It would be simple, clean, and not prone to too much abuse. You'd still need multiple detachments to benefit from multiples of a Kabal, Coven, or Cult obsession while allowing all three in one detachment.
Thats how I'd do it.
Or a bit more limiting- Choose a (Kabal) for your detachment. All (Kabal) Units gain the specified Kabal Obsession even if the detachment includes (Cult) or (Coven) units.
Same for Cult and Coven versions.
Army Rules
Have you ever wanted to field an entire Knight lance of Freeblades or a legion of the Cult Mechanicus’ unfeeling automatons? New rules for Armies of Renown allow you to create a themed force based on several key players of the Charadon campaign, each with its own benefits and restrictions. This offers a whole new way to build flavourful armies and score yourself some extra Relics, Warlord Traits, and Stratagems.
In addition to those rules, you’ll also find no less than three codex supplements for Forge World Metalica, House Raven, and the Cult of Strife, giving you expanded and updated options that can be used with their regular codexes.
Sotahullu wrote: I just wonder what do they mean about Drukhari becoming more "friendly" in that article. Are they going to change Raiding Force or something else?
Although I don't think they will add extra warning page like in 5ed Codex...
My bet is on something like:
In a Drukhari detachment:
If all <<Kabal>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Kabal>>, they gain their Kabal Obsession.
If all <<Coven>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Coven>>, they gain their Coven Obsession.
If all <<Cult>> units in this detachment are from the same <<Cult>>, they gain their Cult Obsession.
It would be simple, clean, and not prone to too much abuse. You'd still need multiple detachments to benefit from multiples of a Kabal, Coven, or Cult obsession while allowing all three in one detachment.
Thats how I'd do it.
Or a bit more limiting- Choose a (Kabal) for your detachment. All (Kabal) Units gain the specified Kabal Obsession even if the detachment includes (Cult) or (Coven) units.
Same for Cult and Coven versions.
If that means that Cult and Coven units in the detachment don't get a trait then the idea is mind numbingly stupid. We want to get away from having to take multiple detachments just so our army can get it's basic traits, not enforce it.
Army Rules
Have you ever wanted to field an entire Knight lance of Freeblades or a legion of the Cult Mechanicus’ unfeeling automatons? New rules for Armies of Renown allow you to create a themed force based on several key players of the Charadon campaign, each with its own benefits and restrictions. This offers a whole new way to build flavourful armies and score yourself some extra Relics, Warlord Traits, and Stratagems.
In addition to those rules, you’ll also find no less than three codex supplements for Forge World Metalica, House Raven, and the Cult of Strife, giving you expanded and updated options that can be used with their regular codexes.
Well the blurb makes me say the same thing as Warmaster21....So cult of strife players need to buy 2 books?! Well I suppose that isn't a "need" but c'mon, if you really want to play the cult of strife with all the options, then yes you would also want to have this book.
Mr_Rose wrote: Much like how Necron players “have” to buy two books (codex and the other war zone book everyone immediately forgot), right?
That's different, because that didn't offer anything for people who play real 40k, the way it was meant to be. 2000 points, Grand Tournament 2020. Whereas this one will, as far as we know, offer that but also dreck like "Crusade rules" and "lore".
/s
I don’t own any Space Marine supplements, but how close does 4 pages of supplemental rules compare to the rules part of the C:SM supplements? Is this the parity some have been asking for?
alextroy wrote: I don’t own any Space Marine supplements, but how close does 4 pages of supplemental rules compare to the rules part of the C:SM supplements? Is this the parity some have been asking for?
I guess that breaks down into a page of detachment rules (mostly rehashed), a page of relics and warlord traits, a page of stratagems and a page of objectives? It's probably not complete parity, but considering the gulf in popularity between Space Wolves (for example) and Cult of Strife, I'll take it.
alextroy wrote: I don’t own any Space Marine supplements, but how close does 4 pages of supplemental rules compare to the rules part of the C:SM supplements? Is this the parity some have been asking for?
Pretty close really and joy to see this being finally done for non Marines!
Most of the printed Marine supplements is lore.
Hopefuly this will be enjoyable as a read like Broken Realms has been thus far, though knowing GW will the rules get updated in the new Codexes....
One drug-addled lightning fast berserker riding a flying green goblin hoverbike swinging a darth maul double bladed giant cleaver now has equal to the number of attacks of a space marine holding a gigantic heavy ranged cannon instead of 1 less.
alextroy wrote: I don’t own any Space Marine supplements, but how close does 4 pages of supplemental rules compare to the rules part of the C:SM supplements? Is this the parity some have been asking for?
I guess that breaks down into a page of detachment rules (mostly rehashed), a page of relics and warlord traits, a page of stratagems and a page of objectives? It's probably not complete parity, but considering the gulf in popularity between Space Wolves (for example) and Cult of Strife, I'll take it.
Excluding data sheets it has been traits, relics, special issue wargear, psychic, strats, and objectives -- about 7 pages so it is about the same considering no spells and probably no objectives.
If its the same price as other Combat Patrol boxes, its basically the raider and archon free.
The dice are pretty decent. Sadly, I think that's the most positive thing for DE this time around.
Little surprised at the warzone book, but I guess they've been sitting on it too long. Really don't like the 'Armies of Renown: forces which trade off restrictions in unit choices for additional benefits.' Reminds me too much of Warmachine theme forces (and past GW attempts at chapter/regiment traits), where you lose access to things you weren't going to take anyway to gain benefits to the things you did want. The balance point is always off somewhere in the ether.
Thats actually a really good Combat Patrol box, it makes for a sensible starting point to an army. I'm surprised how many people are complaining about the dice beeing dull, given how aweful GW's dice end up being whenever they try to make them exciting I'd say that was blessing, these genuinly look good and usable (unlike the Necron dice).
I like the older style over the top decorative dice personally, not so much for gaming, but for collecting. XD
The last few sets of army dice haven't been worth looking at IMO, solid color dice, and a symbol on the six side. Not even a skull on the one side. Meh, boring.
That combat patrol is great though, its everything I hoped it would be, will definitely be picking up a pair of them.
That’s an excellent combat patrol. Whoever picked the selection of minis did awesome. It’s a good value and it gives you a little bit of everything and a good core to an army. You get a shooty core troop, a transport, an anti-armor unit, and a heavy hitting melee unit. Also nice that it includes the newest minis from the range as not every existing player may have them. If I was to play Drukhari I would be stoked at this.
Imateria wrote: One other thing, the datacards said there were 41 stratagems including the 7 from the BRB, so thast 34 strats in the new codex, the old one had 33.
Wow! You mean GW went to the trouble of writing a whole new Stratagem for Dark Eldar?
Truly this is a high-effort codex.
And don't forget - we even get to keep all the stratagems Blood of the Phoenix gave us!
Imateria wrote: One other thing, the datacards said there were 41 stratagems including the 7 from the BRB, so thast 34 strats in the new codex, the old one had 33.
34 seems to be the standard count for stratagem in 9th edition codices, unless you have a supplement, of course.
I also wouldn't be surprised if you have a full revamp of stratagems. For DG only a hand full of stratagems from codex and PA made it to the new codex, everything else was new or greatly changed.
yeah, it's not like they're just adding 1 strategem. You'll lose some, gain new ones, and most will see some form of change. Definitely a weird stance to think that 34 strats means zero effort.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Surprised to see two Raider chassis in there.
Here I was expecting yet another Venom and perhaps some jetbikes.
Theyve been stuffing venoms and reavers in so many boxes I was beginning to think they might be Primaris Lieutenants in disguise. I've ended up with 10 of the things, and not a single one of them is actually a model I intentionally sought out, they've all been packaged with something else. I'm hoping (but not expecting) the new codex comes with a "Vyper" equivalent that trades the transport capacity for a bigger weapon, since I doubt I'll ever use all of them otherwise. Probably end up selling a few or using some for conversion fodder, etc.
I wonder what we'll get but I'm keeping my expectations low. Can't feel worse than the last one did to me, I really disliked how we needed so many detachments for our army to work. It felt so pants on head trouser-gobliny.
Yeah that artwork is pretty poor, especially after the excellent Dark Angel cover.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I wonder what we'll get but I'm keeping my expectations low. Can't feel worse than the last one did to me, I really disliked how we needed so many detachments for our army to work. It felt so pants on head trouser-gobliny.
GW had the chance to do the first proper DE release in a decade. Plastic Grotesques. Plastic Mandrakes. Some new plastic characters. A centerpiece Dias of Destruction.
That combat patrol is like nearly a perfect example of what I'd want to finish of my Dark Eldar army...
...I bet it'll be prohibitively expensive though...
Likewise, the boxset is pretty nice, nothing in there, other than the Venom and the Bird Boys that I'm not keen on. Sad times on the other side of the world.
chaos0xomega wrote: Combat Patrol should be $140 USD, seems to be a standardized price point. Pretty fair price for what you get.
I'd argue against this. The jump in price for these boxes is pretty significant compared to Start Collecting! boxes. This, to me, adds a further barrier to entry. Then combine that with already-expensive Codices, a starter set and then further supplements if you want to play any Marine Chapter, and getting started is suddenly very expensive in 40k nowadays (and that's before paints, brushes, glue, terrain, etc).
The individual Combat Patrols often leave a lot to be desired. The Deathwatch one contains not a single DW miniature, which is impressive in and of itself, and the Deathguard one gives you an illegal army and 3 partial miniatures that cannot be completed.
chaos0xomega wrote: Combat Patrol should be $140 USD, seems to be a standardized price point. Pretty fair price for what you get.
The jump in price for these boxes is pretty significant compared to Start Collecting! boxes. This, to me, adds a further barrier to entry.
Absolutely also this. I've had pretty nerdy friends in two countries I've lived in balk at the price point of Start Collecting beforeGW even hiked the prices on those. To someone used to GWs price point, they might've seemed like a great deal, but they really aren't friendly to newbies at all. While these boxes are like, within the dynamic of GW pricing, an okay deal for the most part, factoring in like GW's silliness with exchange rates, and general "Bespoke wargaming miniatures" mindset...
...not a great deal in my eyes at all, sorry.
Yeah that artwork is pretty poor, especially after the excellent Dark Angel cover.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I wonder what we'll get but I'm keeping my expectations low. Can't feel worse than the last one did to me, I really disliked how we needed so many detachments for our army to work. It felt so pants on head trouser-gobliny.
GW had the chance to do the first proper DE release in a decade. Plastic Grotesques. Plastic Mandrakes. Some new plastic characters. A centerpiece Dias of Destruction.
But nope. Another Lilith. Yay.
Definitely a poor showing for xenos in the new year. I feel like GW used up whatever affection they have left for xenos with the Necrons release and had to recover with MOAR marines, meaning yet another obligatory army edition update with a half-ass feel.
Imateria wrote: One other thing, the datacards said there were 41 stratagems including the 7 from the BRB, so thast 34 strats in the new codex, the old one had 33.
Wow! You mean GW went to the trouble of writing a whole new Stratagem for Dark Eldar?
Truly this is a high-effort codex.
And don't forget - we even get to keep all the stratagems Blood of the Phoenix gave us!
Necron stratagem count didn't change that much but stratagem section nevertheless changed dramatically.
Too hard to wait for some facts before complaining? For all we know not single stratagem is same as before. Necrons had very little same with old stratagems.
At this point, I would assume that Necrons is going to be the only major Xenos release for 9th edition; that way, if it turns out to be wrong, you're pleasantly surprised, rather than constantly disappointed from month to month.
I'm not going full gloom yet but no new models outside a plastic Lilith ? Feels bad, I'm hoping to see it all go well with the rules. What I, in my heart of hearts feel will happen though will be a let down with maybe a couple strong builds but lots of missed choices. Leaving it with an ok codex and a lot of discontent for army variety. I really hope GW makes me very wrong though. The fact we haven't heard much makes me feel sadness is inevitable. At this point we were relatively drowning in news from the Deathguard codex.
It's apparent that somebody on the GW team really loves Death Guard, and has been given reign to transform that into rules since the start of 8th. Clearly, nobody felt that way about Drukhari in 8th, and there's not much evidence to show anyone on the team cares about them in 9th either, judging by the ridiculously, embarrassingly bad pointing they suffered from at the release of 9th.
Hopefully they prove us all wrong and it's a great book, but if so, they certainly haven't been advertising it so far.
yukishiro1 wrote: At this point, I would assume that Necrons is going to be the only major Xenos release for 9th edition; that way, if it turns out to be wrong, you're pleasantly surprised, rather than constantly disappointed from month to month.
yukishiro1 wrote: At this point, I would assume that Necrons is going to be the only major Xenos release for 9th edition; that way, if it turns out to be wrong, you're pleasantly surprised, rather than constantly disappointed from month to month.
Orks.
Keyword here is surely "major". We know there's a single mini in the pipes for sure. But that's it.
So the Cult of Strife rules in the Warzone book are behind a 35-ish pound paywall.
That is ridiculous.
Piety and Pain is 100 pounds or so.
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InVerno wrote: Yeah, this really dosnt get my hopes up for new aspect warriors plastic models when the new codex will be released
i swear to god if i will have to go throught another edition with '90 models i will drop forever the game
My Craftworlds have been on a long hiatus. With the Flyer meta of late 8th, the old models, and how CW are bottom tier I don't foresee I'll play them except in very casual friend games.
So here I am hoping I get to play my Drukhari at least.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Surprised to see two Raider chassis in there.
Here I was expecting yet another Venom and perhaps some jetbikes.
Theyve been stuffing venoms and reavers in so many boxes I was beginning to think they might be Primaris Lieutenants in disguise. I've ended up with 10 of the things, and not a single one of them is actually a model I intentionally sought out, they've all been packaged with something else. I'm hoping (but not expecting) the new codex comes with a "Vyper" equivalent that trades the transport capacity for a bigger weapon, since I doubt I'll ever use all of them otherwise. Probably end up selling a few or using some for conversion fodder, etc.
Incredibly, I own exactly 1 venom, and I've had to buy it individually.
.....
...I do own 6 raider chassis, all from box sets. But that's only because I built my dark eldar army almost entirely off of those "transport+1 troop 50% discout" boxes and the absolutely incredible Gangs of Comorragh "2 reaver kits and 2 hellion kits for the price of one reaver kit".
chaos0xomega wrote: Combat Patrol should be $140 USD, seems to be a standardized price point. Pretty fair price for what you get.
I'd argue against this. The jump in price for these boxes is pretty significant compared to Start Collecting! boxes. This, to me, adds a further barrier to entry. Then combine that with already-expensive Codices, a starter set and then further supplements if you want to play any Marine Chapter, and getting started is suddenly very expensive in 40k nowadays (and that's before paints, brushes, glue, terrain, etc).
The individual Combat Patrols often leave a lot to be desired. The Deathwatch one contains not a single DW miniature, which is impressive in and of itself, and the Deathguard one gives you an illegal army and 3 partial miniatures that cannot be completed.
I'd take an actual functional starter army for 140 before I take a garbage non-detachment for 100$. This is a real functional starter kabal army in one box, buy 2 and you've got yourself a fantastic force of multipart, kitbashable miniatures for the price of the 2-faction monopose starter box of the game.
InVerno wrote: Yeah, this really dosnt get my hopes up for new aspect warriors plastic models when the new codex will be released
i swear to god if i will have to go throught another edition with '90 models i will drop forever the game
I think we have already had good indication that we're getting at least scorps and warp spiders. These were mentioned in stories in PA and many of those stories turned into model releases. Doesn't mean a full range revamp, but I wouldn't rule it out.
InVerno wrote: Yeah, this really dosnt get my hopes up for new aspect warriors plastic models when the new codex will be released
i swear to god if i will have to go throught another edition with '90 models i will drop forever the game
I think we have already had good indication that we're getting at least scorps and warp spiders. These were mentioned in stories in PA and many of those stories turned into model releases. Doesn't mean a full range revamp, but I wouldn't rule it out.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I'm not going full gloom yet but no new models outside a plastic Lilith ? Feels bad, I'm hoping to see it all go well with the rules. What I, in my heart of hearts feel will happen though will be a let down with maybe a couple strong builds but lots of missed choices. Leaving it with an ok codex and a lot of discontent for army variety. I really hope GW makes me very wrong though. The fact we haven't heard much makes me feel sadness is inevitable. At this point we were relatively drowning in news from the Deathguard codex.
True, but at this point in the Death Guard release we were a full month behind the planned release schedule. We got all the articles for DW I'm sure we will see this week for Drukhari in the week preceding the original release date. So really, nothing has changed except they had time to pad out Warhammer Community articles before this revised release date.
I hope we see things this week to give all your Drukhari players hope you will receive a solid codex this time.
All the 9th edition ones have been good both internally and externally.
I wouldn't expect many new xenos models this year though. Surely not a big range revamp.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I'm not going full gloom yet but no new models outside a plastic Lilith ? Feels bad, I'm hoping to see it all go well with the rules. What I, in my heart of hearts feel will happen though will be a let down with maybe a couple strong builds but lots of missed choices. Leaving it with an ok codex and a lot of discontent for army variety. I really hope GW makes me very wrong though. The fact we haven't heard much makes me feel sadness is inevitable. At this point we were relatively drowning in news from the Deathguard codex.
True, but at this point in the Death Guard release we were a full month behind the planned release schedule. We got all the articles for DW I'm sure we will see this week for Drukhari in the week preceding the original release date. So really, nothing has changed except they had time to pad out Warhammer Community articles before this revised release date.
I hope we see things this week to give all your Drukhari players hope you will receive a solid codex this time.
Woo, +1 attack to things that suck in combat. Splinter cannon as an inferior heavy bolter. Same HQ problems.
There has to be something outright magical that GW is inexplicably _hiding_ for this codex to be solid.
Well, looks like the warhammer 40k preview today is for Belakor's tabletop rules, so scratch off 1 of the 5 days we might have gotten substantial drukhari previews before the embargo is lifted...
With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
Not saying you couldn't add new units without adding new kits, because hey, veteran Intercessors, Death Company Intercessors, and Hounds of Morkai exist, but you would have to give a feth about something not marines for 5 seconds to do it, so I doubt we'll see Bloodbrides and Trueborn return.
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
There were some pretty significant changes in Deathguard, I imagine Drukhari will have a similar level of revamp.
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
There were some pretty significant changes in Deathguard, I imagine Drukhari will have a similar level of revamp.
You would think so, but nothing they've said so far suggests anything more than "we inflated some of your numbers, though not nearly as much as we inflated Imperium numbers."
If there's an interesting, innovative codex here that reworks the faction in big ways, the PR team has certainly been trying to hide it from us.
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
Not saying you couldn't add new units without adding new kits, because hey, veteran Intercessors, Death Company Intercessors, and Hounds of Morkai exist, but you would have to give a feth about something not marines for 5 seconds to do it, so I doubt we'll see Bloodbrides and Trueborn return.
Nope, I'd say zero chances of that.
We can expect something new in the detachment part, but mostly it will be an update and rebalance, not a redesign.
More like the SM dex than the DG one.
Some renamed and slightly adjusted relics, warlord traits, detachment rules, that's all that'll change. There aren't any more unit entries for them to remove so at least that shouldn't happen this time, unless they decide to squat one of the old metal kits or something.
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
As has been mentioned the Death Guard changed a lot between the two books. I hated playing Death Guard in 8th as much as I loved painting them, but now the codex is actually fun. It's for that reason I am actually excited for this codex.
A codex can have a lot of changes and improvements without adding new units. I mean, in an ideal world we'd get plastic replacements for resin/metal kits, but that does not bar the codex from being fun.
Clearly previewing Bela'kors new rules that will be released in some unanounced book in the indeterminate future was far more important than the previewing the impending Drukhari codex, good job GW.
Whats the 140 Euro pricepoint translate to in american? $180? I've preordered 4 copies through my local, was expecting them to come in around $200 each MSRP.
As for rarity, doesn't seem to be quite *that* limited, stores are being limited to 20 copies each, which is a lot more than the 5 copy ration instituted for most of last year, albeit lower than the 50 copy limit that GW allowed in the past. Never had trouble getting my hands on these boxes in the past, don't anticipate that changing now.
Imateria wrote: Clearly previewing Bela'kors new rules that will be released in some unanounced book in the indeterminate future was far more important than the previewing the impending Drukhari codex, good job GW.
Strange post. Do you honestly think there won't be any Drukhari rules previews this week? Or is it just that you deserve to get the the articles you want before anyone else gets content they want?
Imateria wrote: Clearly previewing Bela'kors new rules that will be released in some unanounced book in the indeterminate future was far more important than the previewing the impending Drukhari codex, good job GW.
Strange post. Do you honestly think there won't be any Drukhari rules previews this week? Or is it just that you deserve to get the the articles you want before anyone else gets content they want?
I think people are just frustrated with the anticipation.
Imateria wrote: Clearly previewing Bela'kors new rules that will be released in some unanounced book in the indeterminate future was far more important than the previewing the impending Drukhari codex, good job GW.
Strange post. Do you honestly think there won't be any Drukhari rules previews this week? Or is it just that you deserve to get the the articles you want before anyone else gets content they want?
I mean given that we'll know 100% of the drukhari rules on...I think saturday is when the embargo lifts? And belakor's not in the upcoming charadon book, unless he's not listed in the table of contents, meaning he'll be at least a few months out...it does seem a bit strange to be previewing belakor and redemptionists so far in advance.
I dunno, it's fine. I'm glad for fans of Gray Standard Demon Man, and I'll probably buy some fun fire cultists to add to my extremely diverse and increasingly implausible tzeentch cultist collection.
Denegaar wrote: All factions, as far as I remember, had a full week of previews before the Codex entered preorder. To build hype, I guess.
I'm normally in the positive side of things, but I can't find the positivity in not having the same as the other factions had.
DE have already had some articles.
This is true, kind of similar to how DA and DG got a few teasers prior to their release. Really, I'm just hoping for a few specifics in terms of the overall structure of what they've done. What are we looking at for army wide rules. How does the subfaction mixing they've promised actually work. I'm sure most of the things I'll get actually excited about will wait until the full reveals on saturday, like specific weapon and statline changes that make models that have been sitting on the shelf for an age actually usable (a guy can dream, anyway) but the basic statline of one troop unit, the partial statline of one weapon (how Poisoned Weapons actually work would seem to be changing at least somewhat, given that they've changed from S1 to S2 and S3 for no adequately explained reason) and the partial statline of a named character available to a single subfaction.
yukishiro1 wrote: Right...and they were super underwhelming, hence why people are worried.
Just arguing against the point that they’ve had any less articles than usual, and that that’s some reason to be worried. All codexes have rubbish fillery articles when they come out. DEs have just been more spread out, presumably due to the delays.
I think part of the problem is that, as a result of reboxing, some Drukhari datasheets have been leaking out. These have been mostly underwhelming, but I'm not convinced that GW would have chosen to show them off in advance of the rules if they'd had the choice.
harlokin wrote: I think part of the problem is that, as a result of reboxing, some Drukhari datasheets have been leaking out. These have been mostly underwhelming, but I'm not convinced that GW would have chosen to show them off in advance of the rules if they'd had the choice.
I mean so far it's just been the wyches, drazar, venoms and incubi. The only people really calling those 'underwhelming' that I've seen have been folks assuming that special rules they currently have theyll lose. Like +1A -1AP and +1S on several special weapon options is basically what Wyches need to be effective, it's not a ton but there's not really much else I'd add to them, they're pretty decent. I guess change their special rule to give them a 4++ vs any attacks made while in engagement range, rather than just attacks made in the fight phase, since they tend to get owned by pistols. Venoms I guess are really next to nothing, but everything that makes a venom good or bad is special rules. The datasheet didn't change much, but the change did indicate that Reavers are getting a good change at least.
harlokin wrote: I agree, but the expecation, as with film trailers, is that the best bits will be front and centre.
As you said, the rules are what make the difference, so the datasheets are being looked at somewhat out of context.
Yeah, and also they're just gonna be random. Like, they almost certainly have zero fething control over which of those assembly sheets wind up on the internet when. They chose to preview kabs because that's one where they made the most changes to the core sheet - doubling attacks, +1sv, and several weapon changes that are statline-based.
Even if they did The Thing Everyone Wants with venoms, you'd have no idea with the assembly datasheet, because that "transport capacity 6" wouldnt be on there.
harlokin wrote: I agree, but the expecation, as with film trailers, is that the best bits will be front and centre.
As you said, the rules are what make the difference, so the datasheets are being looked at somewhat out of context.
Yeah, and also they're just gonna be random. Like, they almost certainly have zero fething control over which of those assembly sheets wind up on the internet when. They chose to preview kabs because that's one where they made the most changes to the core sheet - doubling attacks, +1sv, and several weapon changes that are statline-based.
Even if they did The Thing Everyone Wants with venoms, you'd have no idea with the assembly datasheet, because that "transport capacity 6" wouldnt be on there.
I'd also point out that the articles themselves for Kabs and Incubi were very short and in the case of Incubi was 3 months ago. It's been a damn long wait with little to nothing to go on and now that we've finally got to "our week" they start it off by previewing a Daemon for another faction.
Compare this to Death Guard. They were admitedly in a weird position where GW pushed back their codex release on the day everyone expected it to be announced for pre-order and so their faction focus articles came out with no pre-order to lead up to, but at least in that week it was wall to wall Death Guard information without previews promoting completely separate factions stealing their limelight.
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
Even with just old models necrons turned upside down.
If there's something you can count with gw it's changes. Non-change doesn't get people replace old army lists to new ones.
Those prices are insane, glad to see the Combat Patrol is holding at $140 - thats amazing value right there, hands down the best Combat Patrol so far. And the price on Piety & Pain is super-unexpected, was worrying GW would price them over $200, glad to see its $170, can't wait for my copies
Those books though... $60 for Book of Rust and $40 for Crusade missions? WTF is GW thinking?
Billicus wrote: With no new units what is there to even say really? Slight rules wording changes and adjustments on preexisting crap don't make for much of a preview. Save your money on this one, there'll be zero heart in it
Even with just old models necrons turned upside down.
If there's something you can count with gw it's changes. Non-change doesn't get people replace old army lists to new ones.
Same for my Death Guard, I didn't even try the new terrain piece or the new Lord yet but my army plays nothing like before even though my lists are roughly the same as before.
harlokin wrote: What is the currency? GW sells the new dice sets at £20 each AFAIK, so the listed price here aint in pounds.
As they list both english and french, I'm gonna guess its Canadian dollars. That's a guess though.
It's 100% American dollars, US and Canadian retailers get the same sell sheets (hence french language), but thats the USD column as the price point for combat patrols in USD is $140 whereas in CAD its $170
Really shouldn't have been hard to come up with 5 days of stuff.
In no particular order:
1. Crusade Rules.
2. Changes to existing Army Mechanics - i.e. how you build the army, PFP, Drugs etc. Okay the article is a bit weak if nothing has changed - but even that's still news. Are the custom traits from PA being carried over verbatim? Etc.
3. *New non-Souping Mechanic, what is it and what does it do* (okay this may be the gap, going to be bitter if so but what can you do.)
4. Most improved units. I.E. Write a paragraph on how triple lance Ravagers are back and show a photo+datasheet of one.
5. New chapter tactics/warlord traits/relics/stratagems (again, assuming there will be some.)
Hoping there's something tomorrow otherwise yes, maybe its time to start being a bit nervous.
Voss wrote: I kinda hate the fact that I'm surprised P&P has a lower price than I expected. It means they're normalizing these absurd price points.
$60 for the almost-no-content Book of Rust seems laughable.
Its 96 pages!
I get the feeling that the PA books sold well enough that GW believes they can cash in on more campaign tomfoolery. I was thinking of buying the book but after seeing that price point I went immediately into "nope" territory. 60$ for a couple of rules(which is what a lot of people will be buying this for) is just ridiculous. For that price they should have combined the campaign book and crusade book into one book for 60$.
Nothing new there. Its pretty much standard for faction dice- hedonites (sold out), daughters of khaine and space wolves are still up on the store for the same price.
They're completely optional pure cosmetic items for enthusiasts, custom jobs with a limited print run. /shrug
Datacards are much worse to me, given they're completely useless after a few years.
Tyel wrote: Really shouldn't have been hard to come up with 5 days of stuff.
In no particular order:
1. Crusade Rules.
2. Changes to existing Army Mechanics - i.e. how you build the army, PFP, Drugs etc. Okay the article is a bit weak if nothing has changed - but even that's still news. Are the custom traits from PA being carried over verbatim? Etc.
3. *New non-Souping Mechanic, what is it and what does it do* (okay this may be the gap, going to be bitter if so but what can you do.)
4. Most improved units. I.E. Write a paragraph on how triple lance Ravagers are back and show a photo+datasheet of one.
5. New chapter tactics/warlord traits/relics/stratagems (again, assuming there will be some.)
Hoping there's something tomorrow otherwise yes, maybe its time to start being a bit nervous.
GW is highly inconsistent when it comes to how many days of preview articles they give. Death Guard had 5, one which was "look at this new rule for Disgustingly Resilient". Dark Angels had 4. Space Wolves had 3. I'm sure we will see something on Tuesday. Wonder what they want to show first?
Nothing new there. Its pretty much standard for faction dice- hedonites (sold out), daughters of khaine and space wolves are still up on the store for the same price.
They're completely optional pure cosmetic items for enthusiasts, custom jobs with a limited print run. /shrug
Datacards are much worse to me, given they're completely useless after a few years.
I agree. I'm normally a sucker for fancy dice, but while they are now very useable, I don't like the colour or the symbol on the Drukhari ones.
I'll almost certainly end up getting the cards though...
Strange. I'd've thought that Dark Eldar players would be lining up to pay a further $60 to get 3 pages of rules that should have been in their Codex to begin with.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Strange. I'd've thought that Dark Eldar players would be lining up to pay a further $60 to get 3 pages of rules that should have been in their Codex to begin with.
Right? im not advocating for piracy (tos), but that is how you get piracy
warmaster21 wrote: Right? im not advocating for piracy (tos), but that is how you get piracy
It got said somewhere else - but I think GW's taken the view that it doesn't matter.
All the books are adverts for the models.
I guess if they sell literally none there will be questions of waste - but if a relatively small number go "that's exactly the hook I needed to collect a new Knights/Ad Mech/DE/DG army" - whether they buy the book or not - then the intellectual effort will have paid for itself multiple times over.
And also, much like all concerns of GW's pricing - you know a lot of people will just go and buy it because that's what they do.
I mean I think PA was a damp squib. But I suspect GW's analysts would say it turned the coals very successfully - lots of people got interested in new conceptual armies, and rushed out to buy more plastic.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I was such a big advocate for GW doing campaign book releases.
Had I know where it would lead I never would have said a word.
I still remember their 7th ed campaing books like Shield of Baal and Warzone Damaclese that had lots of fluff and rules. Their current campaign books don't come close to matching that kind of value.
The bigger youtube channels that do battle reports will most likely have their copies of the codex before they go on sale.
Tabletop Titans, Tabletop Tactics, Miniwargaming, amongst others will probably get theirs this weekend (depends on shipping and availability of course).
Glad to see the $170 on the Piety, though unironically even though I play Sisters I really don't need/want any of the Sisters except Palatine and I'll just buy her seperate on ebay. The Drukhari half and the combat patrol box wouldn't be a bad start to an army.
jivardi wrote: Glad to see the $170 on the Piety, though unironically even though I play Sisters I really don't need/want any of the Sisters except Palatine and I'll just buy her seperate on ebay. The Drukhari half and the combat patrol box wouldn't be a bad start to an army.
Can anyone remember how much the Eldar/Dark Eldar box was, for comparison's sake?
I bought the Vigilus books and most of the PA books. In conjunction with the 40k Risk map, I'm all good for GW campaign play. Not going for another round at these insane prices.
jivardi wrote: Glad to see the $170 on the Piety, though unironically even though I play Sisters I really don't need/want any of the Sisters except Palatine and I'll just buy her seperate on ebay. The Drukhari half and the combat patrol box wouldn't be a bad start to an army.
Can anyone remember how much the Eldar/Dark Eldar box was, for comparison's sake?
Blood of the Phoenix? $230 US. 180 Euros / 140 british pounds. It was completely crazy.
This one is priced like Shadow and Pain- the Hedonite/Daughters of Khaine box, so at least for now this is the new 'normal.' Aether War was $160 US at the beginning of 2020.
I believe Blood of the Phoenix was GW testing what price they could get away with. Then, after the backlash, they started lowering the price to find the sweet spot where they could extract the most out of its userbase.
A part of me believes the Rust campaign book is them trying to find the price band where they can sell the book at maximum profit. Because as someone said 96 pages for 60$ is nuts.
It could also be them pricing in logistics. Books are printed in China and with the global container shortage that has coincided with COVID the cost of overseas freight has skyrocketed. Pricing up accessory companion books might be their way of preserving margins or making up for losses, as its less likely to provoke backlash than if they upped codex prices ("What do you mean my Drukhari codex costs $60?? Space Marines only paid $50!"). Could also be hiked because of warehousing costs if these books are a product that GW ended up sitting on for some time.because of the delayed release schedule too.
jivardi wrote: Glad to see the $170 on the Piety, though unironically even though I play Sisters I really don't need/want any of the Sisters except Palatine and I'll just buy her seperate on ebay. The Drukhari half and the combat patrol box wouldn't be a bad start to an army.
Can anyone remember how much the Eldar/Dark Eldar box was, for comparison's sake?
chaos0xomega wrote: It could also be them pricing in logistics. Books are printed in China and with the global container shortage that has coincided with COVID the cost of overseas freight has skyrocketed. Pricing up accessory companion books might be their way of preserving margins or making up for losses, as its less likely to provoke backlash than if they upped codex prices ("What do you mean my Drukhari codex costs $60?? Space Marines only paid $50!"). Could also be hiked because of warehousing costs if these books are a product that GW ended up sitting on for some time.because of the delayed release schedule too.
Yeah, I don't believe that for a second. GW doesn't believe in this thing called "losses". Especially not for non-essentials like books.
chaos0xomega wrote: It could also be them pricing in logistics. Books are printed in China and with the global container shortage that has coincided with COVID the cost of overseas freight has skyrocketed. Pricing up accessory companion books might be their way of preserving margins or making up for losses, as its less likely to provoke backlash than if they upped codex prices ("What do you mean my Drukhari codex costs $60?? Space Marines only paid $50!"). Could also be hiked because of warehousing costs if these books are a product that GW ended up sitting on for some time.because of the delayed release schedule too.
Yeah, I don't believe that for a second. GW doesn't believe in this thing called "losses". Especially not for non-essentials like books.
Thats exactly my point. Thats why the books cost more.
Yes, but you implied they'd do it to keep the price of codexes down. Which never been the case, they'd just up the price of both. After all, they are Premium Brand...
Eldarsif wrote: I believe Blood of the Phoenix was GW testing what price they could get away with. Then, after the backlash, they started lowering the price to find the sweet spot where they could extract the most out of its userbase.
A part of me believes the Rust campaign book is them trying to find the price band where they can sell the book at maximum profit. Because as someone said 96 pages for 60$ is nuts.
Honestly people should take a stand here and not buy it. Especially not if you're just after a few pages. I'm not condoning piracy, but I'm also not condoning not-piracy.
chaos0xomega wrote: It could also be them pricing in logistics. Books are printed in China and with the global container shortage that has coincided with COVID the cost of overseas freight has skyrocketed. Pricing up accessory companion books might be their way of preserving margins or making up for losses, as its less likely to provoke backlash than if they upped codex prices ("What do you mean my Drukhari codex costs $60?? Space Marines only paid $50!"). Could also be hiked because of warehousing costs if these books are a product that GW ended up sitting on for some time.because of the delayed release schedule too.
Yeah, I don't believe that for a second. GW doesn't believe in this thing called "losses". Especially not for non-essentials like books.
Thats exactly my point. Thats why the books cost more.
GW seem to be shifting their printing to the UK, the Necron codex is the first I've seen that was printed here rather than in China.
Honestly people should take a stand here and not buy it. Especially not if you're just after a few pages. I'm not condoning piracy, but I'm also not condoning not-piracy.
Don't disagree, but I wonder how effective that strategy really is. 3rd party sales (I.E. independent retailers) make up a pretty significant chunk of GWs distribution channels (I calculate ~55-56% of sales by revenue, based on their most recent financial report). Many indy stores order new release inventory blind (i.e. no pre-orders or sales commitments behind them, they just get them in stock with the expectation that the demand exists). I assume GW doesn't really track what happens to these items once the indy stores get them - effectively speaking this is an item that GW has sold, regardless of whether or not an actual customer takes possession of it. I guess they would probably recognize poor sales if inventory allocated to direct online and retail sales doesn't move, but it kinda begs the question of how closely they monitor these things and what their expected sales thresholds, etc. are.
Also, the truth is that the segment of the community that is active online seems to be in the minority when it comes to price (in)elasticity. Despite all the complaints about Blood of the Phoenix, for example, all the local stores still managed to find a way to sell out of it within a couple of weeks, and it didn't last online for much longer. Likewise, the Pariah Nexus Kill Team box evaporated from GWs online store on release day. Buying GW product from GW directly is the most expensive way you can interact with the hobby, and yet there is clearly still a volume of people who are buying GW products from GWs direct sales channels... but those people seem to be a rarity in the online community (if we did a poll on dakka I would be surprised if more than a quarter of dakkites would admit to purchasing direct from GW on the reg). Basically - I don't think organizing a boycott will be effective, because evidently theres a lot of folks out there who will pay whatever GW asks.
chaos0xomega wrote: Despite all the complaints about Blood of the Phoenix, for example, all the local stores still managed to find a way to sell out of it within a couple of weeks, and it didn't last online for much longer.
You sure about that? It was still on sale on the GW website for months after its release. Same for various independent stores. A number of newer battle boxes came and went whilst it was still on sale. That box was not a success compared to all the others.
chaos0xomega wrote: Despite all the complaints about Blood of the Phoenix, for example, all the local stores still managed to find a way to sell out of it within a couple of weeks, and it didn't last online for much longer.
You sure about that? It was still on sale on the GW website for months after its release. Same for various independent stores. A number of newer battle boxes came and went whilst it was still on sale. That box was not a success compared to all the others.
My store ordered very few copies as they knew it wouldn't sell well. Managed to sell all copies eventually, but only because they didn't order that many. Contrast that with all the other dual boxes(and Lumineth box) and my store ordered a lot that sold out very quickly.
Likewise, the Pariah Nexus Kill Team box evaporated from GWs online store on release day.
To be fair GW did lock a few units a lot of people were waiting for and all in all the box was at the same price as other boxes. The difference with BotP is that BotP had a lot of dead weight units that were ticking up the price and even I couldn't justify getting more scourges, vypers, and Falcons for the collection. At least with Pariah you are getting all new units at most likely their normal prices.
(I didn't buy Pariah as I couldn't justify the cost as I am not playing Space Marines currently and Necrons are on hold)
I really like that we are getting trueborns back even if there is no sign that they will get more special weapons. A 2+ to hit for having a Master Archon makes special and heavy weapons slightly more appealing.
Heavy nerf to Power from pain, but I like what I see for everything else. Poison Tongue getting 3+ to wound every non-vehicle in the game looks tasty, and a master archon with a dijon blade can dish out a lot of damage
chaos0xomega wrote: Despite all the complaints about Blood of the Phoenix, for example, all the local stores still managed to find a way to sell out of it within a couple of weeks, and it didn't last online for much longer.
You sure about that? It was still on sale on the GW website for months after its release. Same for various independent stores. A number of newer battle boxes came and went whilst it was still on sale. That box was not a success compared to all the others.
In the US it moved quickly, maybe it didn't sell as well in Oz?
My store ordered very few copies as they knew it wouldn't sell well. Managed to sell all copies eventually, but only because they didn't order that many. Contrast that with all the other dual boxes(and Lumineth box) and my store ordered a lot that sold out very quickly.
My store sold out a week after release (I ended up buying the last two copies). To date the only box that hasn't sold out at my store was the Aether War box.
Power from Pain as a mono-faction thing is interesting.
Guess Wyches try not to enjoy the killing now, when the Farseer is watching
Guess we might see more existing army rules such as AdMech Canticles turned into mono-faction boni, instead of giving the armies freebies on top like Marines?
Eldarsif wrote: I believe Blood of the Phoenix was GW testing what price they could get away with. Then, after the backlash, they started lowering the price to find the sweet spot where they could extract the most out of its userbase.
A part of me believes the Rust campaign book is them trying to find the price band where they can sell the book at maximum profit. Because as someone said 96 pages for 60$ is nuts.
Honestly people should take a stand here and not buy it. Especially not if you're just after a few pages. I'm not condoning piracy, but I'm also not condoning not-piracy.
I agree. I won't be buying the book because that's too much money for too little. If I ever feel like I need those rules to play my DG or that the campaign turns out to be an unexpected wellspring of creativity, I might change my mind. If it's just a broken relic and two stratagems worth considering like vigilus was, I'm sure battlescribe will have me covered.
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Eldarsif wrote: Also, without having direct access to the rules it appears you are not limited to having to select one from each Combat Drug.
The article explicitly says it's possible for multiple wyches to use the same drugs.
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Sunny Side Up wrote: Guess we might see more existing army rules such as AdMech Canticles turned into mono-faction boni, instead of giving the armies freebies on top like Marines?
To be honest having yet another special rule layered on top of power from pain would have been stupid. Better put that extra power elsewhere.
chaos0xomega wrote: Despite all the complaints about Blood of the Phoenix, for example, all the local stores still managed to find a way to sell out of it within a couple of weeks, and it didn't last online for much longer.
You sure about that? It was still on sale on the GW website for months after its release. Same for various independent stores. A number of newer battle boxes came and went whilst it was still on sale. That box was not a success compared to all the others.
In the US it moved quickly, maybe it didn't sell as well in Oz?
My store ordered very few copies as they knew it wouldn't sell well. Managed to sell all copies eventually, but only because they didn't order that many. Contrast that with all the other dual boxes(and Lumineth box) and my store ordered a lot that sold out very quickly.
My store sold out a week after release (I ended up buying the last two copies). To date the only box that hasn't sold out at my store was the Aether War box.
One of the locals around here still has copies (of BotP), others didn't even bother ordering it- I think you're overgeneralizing.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Guess we might see more existing army rules such as AdMech Canticles turned into mono-faction boni, instead of giving the armies freebies on top like Marines?
To be honest having yet another special rule layered on top of power from pain would have been stupid. Better put that extra power elsewhere.
Yea I don't quite get Sunny's point. Marines are forced mono often.
The Raiding Forces/Realspace Raid
is the worst word salad I've seen yet in a GW product. If they weren't obsessed with KEYWORDS it could've flown so much better.
Its a shame trueborn are 1:1 with master archons but at least they exist... and hopefully means bloodbrides will be an upgrade for 1:1 with a master succubus if that is a thing.
..Yeah...honestly I'm glad to not have to deal with stupid marine/necron seven layer bean dip army wide special rules, but it does stink that those exist in the game and we have no answer to them. I'm guessing CWE will see some sort of major buff to battle focus and that will be their thing.
some big nerfs in there though - not just turn 1 going to 6++, but also turn 2 going to advance and charge from reroll charge. That makes drukhari deep strike much MUCH less effective, though I suppose they didn't do that too much anyway.
Wonder what Red Grief is getting totally redesigned into, seeing as that was their cult trait.
Realspace Raid is hyper-powerful. Each INDIVIDUAL UNIT can have their own drukhari obsession if you want - holy crap. I can have poisoned tongue kabalites and Black Heart ravagers and a custom close combat kabal archon and court if I want to.You give up on some aura synergy potentially, but given the archon's new aura power...,not THAT Much....
Realspace Raid is hyper-powerful. Each INDIVIDUAL UNIT can have their own drukhari obsession if you want - holy crap. I can have poisoned tongue kabalites and Black Heart ravagers and a custom close combat kabal archon and court if I want to.You give up on some aura synergy potentially, but given the archon's new aura power...,not THAT Much....
I don't think that's how it works. My reading is that you pick one Obsession and it applies to all models in that detachment, so if you pick Poisoned Tongue, even though it's a Kabal, your Wyches and Wracks get the Obsession too.
warmaster21 wrote: Its a shame trueborn are 1:1 with master archons but at least they exist... and hopefully means bloodbrides will be an upgrade for 1:1 with a master succubus if that is a thing.
yeah theyre mostly just a cute fluff rule. +1BS and ignore hit modifiers on one unit of kabs for hopefully minor pts increases. No extra specials/heavies, no change in minimum unit size to let you fit them into a transport with the HQ (I suppose we dont know, maybe we have TC6 venoms and TC11 raiders now but whatever)
The other option people use are Sylvaneth Tree Revenants, which I would have used if I didn't already play Sylvaneth in 
crypt horrors
