Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

I've played at the stores RTT's for the last 4-5 years or so, and never have I been excluded. I typically have a habit of playing unpainted armies in the local RTT's up until GT's or MAJOR events that cause me to finish painting, after which I typically get bored with said painted army and go on to my next project....buying more models from the store in question.

Now all of a sudden, due to certain people in the store I suspect...the ones that have trouble winning against some of us that are really good players but dont paint as a priority to play in local RTT's....the store is requiring a 3 color minimum on all models in the army in order to play in a simple RTT.

I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

Sounds like an evil conspiracy of your enemies'!!!

Or maybe people just don't like playing against unpainted armies...

I dunno, the last 4-5 years seemed to produce some pretty decent RTT's.

I guess they werent happy with the 20+ player attendence that they had at $15 dollars a pop.

Store was making too much money I guess. (RTT's have recently fallen to 6-10 players in the last few months since last May or so)

Show up with the most god awful eye shattering color scheme, one that will make your opponent's eyes water after an hour. Highlight it and everything, use rage as a motivation to finish.

Or directly confront whoever is responsible for the policy change and have a polite discussion on why paint standards were changed. If you are unable to come to resolution have a town hall meeting or petition and let the community decide.

Well... I have a rule of not fielding anything until the entire army is painted, so I wouldn't really have a problem with that, although I see where you're coming from. I personally don't care whether someone's army is painted(unless it's mine).

Still, its nice if they're at least primed. I'm a bit of a germaphobe, so having to touch that metal with nothing covering it is a bit... unsettling. You can't even tell if they've washed off the release agent. I think the reason why is that they don't want someone just buying out half the store the day before, and coming with half a tonne of crap to throw on the table with no clue what to do with it.

But, hey, you're Grey Knights. You have... what? 2 models to paint

Those bastards, trying to force players to actually take part in the *hobby* aspects instead of catering toward every flavor of TFG who can't even bother to buy a can of spray paint once in a while...

Do they say they have to be the same three colors?

Deadshane1 wrote:
I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Deadshane1 wrote:My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

I've played at the stores RTT's for the last 4-5 years or so, and never have I been excluded. I typically have a habit of playing unpainted armies in the local RTT's up until GT's or MAJOR events that cause me to finish painting, after which I typically get bored with said painted army and go on to my next project....buying more models from the store in question.

Now all of a sudden, due to certain people in the store I suspect...the ones that have trouble winning against some of us that are really good players but dont paint as a priority to play in local RTT's....the store is requiring a 3 color minimum on all models in the army in order to play in a simple RTT.

I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

So don't go.

Judging by your posts on here, you probably won't be missed

Well.... you could just, you know, paint the models maybe ?

I only really started attending the UK GTs as it forces me to actually move beyond undercoating my models, and it does feel good when you get them done.

I'm assuming this is only at or around 2ks worth of models yeah ?

C'mon, yuou can manage that. Think of the time it'll save you later when you're ready to attend the events you do field painted armies at-- more practise time might equal a better finish perhaps ?

Oh, that's not a dig or anything, honest !

Deadshane1 wrote:I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

Sadly, it looks like their attempt to politely exclude power gamers and rules lawyers is already backfiring.

No. I've seen that in the past where someone will show up with such. You should see the look on their face when they can't play-what fun!

I thought the RTT's always had a 3-color standard.

Is every RTT in your club following that guideline now? If so, I would suggest that you try to encourage "painted RTTs" and "unpainted RTTs" so nobody is forced to play the hobby the "right" way if they don't want to...

Greets
Schepp himself

Ifurita wrote:I thought the RTT's always had a 3-color standard.

Agreed. The basic RTT rules that are put out by GW and most RTT organizers merely cut-and-paste to list as their own tournament rules requires three color minimum with no bare metal/plastic and/or primer showing.

While my own painting ability is suspect at best, I still manage to meet this minimum for any tournament I have played in 5+ years. What's the big deal? My former Alpha Legion list had a paint scheme that consisted of exactly three colors; I literally only opened three different jars of paint for the entire army. Won't win any painting awards, but at least I can play....

Run your own tourney if you don't like it.

I think it's pretty reasonable for RTTs to require painting, and I always thought that an official GW RTT required painted armies (maybe that has changed in the last few years).

We ran our own tourney in early November and didn't require painted armies, but you weren't eligible for Best Gamer if you didn't paint your own arm. I think that is a reasonable compromise. In face, the Best Gamer had a record of 1-2, but excellent painting and sportsmanship scores along with 10 of 16 'favorite army' and 3 of 3 'best opponent' votes which carried him over a 3-0 army with low to average painting and sports scores.

I feel the pain of not having a painted army, and have skipped some tournies because I didn't have stuff painted, but it's the organizer's choice.

I find it ironic that a power-gamer is throwing rocks about people trying to be king nerd.

Locally (there are three local shops that run tournaments) we have three different types of tournies. A Ard Boyz type with no soft scores or painting, a full-on RTT with 3-color minimum (all primer covered) and a paint score (you cannot win anything if you have 3 dots of paint), and a mid-range one with a paint score, but it's only used for a tie-breaker, and no paint requirement.

Personally the painting requirement is to make the tourney more of a spectacle and gather true hobbyists that utilize the whole hobby. There's nothing wrong with the hardcore tourney "I can't be bothered to paint (yet)" guys, it just gets really boring. There's nothing like going to a tourney and seeing tons of cool armies with different ideas of how the armies should look. It kinda sucks to have to paly some gray horde after palying a really nice looking army.

So I say, let them play a tourney where they want everyone to have painted armies. You may try and participate in a positive manner by using it as a goal to get stuff painted (that's how 90% of my stuff gets done!) instead of being an ass and painting little dots on things. If you cannot bring ourself to do that, it looks like you're left out. If they cannot get attendance with a paint requirement they will probably drop it anyway.

dietrich wrote:Run your own tourney if you don't like it.

Um. Then he can't play?

Deadshane1 wrote:My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

I've played at the stores RTT's for the last 4-5 years or so, and never have I been excluded. I typically have a habit of playing unpainted armies in the local RTT's up until GT's or MAJOR events that cause me to finish painting, after which I typically get bored with said painted army and go on to my next project....buying more models from the store in question.

Now all of a sudden, due to certain people in the store I suspect...the ones that have trouble winning against some of us that are really good players but dont paint as a priority to play in local RTT's....the store is requiring a 3 color minimum on all models in the army in order to play in a simple RTT.

I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

I have trouble getting my stuff painted except for big events (GT's) as well, however I don't think this is some evil plot as you seem to be considering. I'd say its more likely a lot of the gamers got tired of facing the "flavor of the month" power gamer armies that never get painted because they're recently purchased. Also, I do like to play versus painted armies, and typically my store is willing to make case by case exceptions for RTT's if you're known, you're making progress, and a decent amount is painted. But showing up with bare plastic to every event isn't acceptable.

Thats why we typically have "shop tourneys" and official "RTT's". Shop tourneys are no painting requirement, RTT's are painting required.

I'd also say its not too mature to, instead of just putting down a basic paint scheme, drop 3 dots of color just to thumb your nose at the tourney organizer. If you just went and discussed it with him "Hey, I heard about the new painting rules, and I'm really sorry, but I don't think I have the time required to get my painting finished for the tournament, do you mind if some of my army is unpainted while I'm working on it, as I'd still like to play" he'd probably say its fine, and to go ahead and have fun.

There are in game reasons for requiring painting. A horde army is very confusing if it's a gray horde- you need colours to help differentiate units.
Aside from that, 3 colours isn't going to break the bank. All you've gotta do is put on your base coats on three areas, and that's it.
I usually ask for 3 colours when I run a tournament but it is generally disregarded. I've tended to let people play anyway to keep numbers up but I have been tempted to tell people to go away.

I don't understand why someone would want to play with unpainted figures. They just look like generic bits of metal and plastic until there's some paint on them.

Why is three colours so demand for a tournament? Why is there indignance about laziness being challenged?

Tournaments are supposed to be a spectacle to all that attend, it's open to the public as well as the gamers isn't it? Well what good does it do to play games where someone hasn't bothered to paint their army?

In short - it looks gak.

malfred wrote:

dietrich wrote:Run your own tourney if you don't like it.

Um. Then he can't play?

Find a judge. Doesn't mean that you can't set up the venue, arrange prize support, develop missions, print tourney packages for the players - there's a lot of behind the scenes work to a tourney that can all be done by someone that wants to play in it. If you want to be a sport, exempt yourself from the prizes, but there's really nothing wrong with setting up and playing in your own tourney, provided you find someone else to be the judge(s).

Howard A Treesong wrote:I don't understand why someone would want to play with unpainted figures. They just look like generic bits of metal and plastic until there's some paint on them.

Why is three colours so demand for a tournament? Why is there indignance about laziness being challenged?

Tournaments are supposed to be a spectacle to all that attend, it's open to the public as well as the gamers isn't it? Well what good does it do to play games where someone hasn't bothered to paint their army?

In short - it looks gak.

I don't understand why people refuse to play with unpainted figs. A lot of the armies I see are painted so terribly that they honestly look better gray.

Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

Danny Internets wrote:

Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

Thats fine. Play at tourneys that don't have painting requirements. Trying to barge in on tourneys that DO have requirements with an unpainted army, or one with three dots, doesn't meet the requirements of that tourney. Its a simple thing.

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

Saldiven wrote:
Agreed. The basic RTT rules that are put out by GW and most RTT organizers merely cut-and-paste to list as their own tournament rules requires three color minimum with no bare metal/plastic and/or primer showing.

Except, judging by some of the complaints frm club mates various stories of attending GT's and RT's....GW doesnt always adhear to their own rules about painting.

Danny Internets wrote:Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

I don't find every part of the hobby interesting. I can't say I'm thrilled by removing mould lines for a start, still manage it though.

Anyway, the comparison you make isn't the same. Playing with the figures isn't a requirement to enjoying the painted article, they can be fully appreciated when not on the field of battle but on display. But the quality of playing with them is diminished by not presenting them properly, ie, painting and assembling to a minimal standard.

You could equally argue against realistic terrain. You can play over a tartan coloured rug with beer cans for buildings, they serve just as effectively according to the raw. But the game is not done any favours for it.

carmachu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

I'm sure thats the idea.

I thought this was a standard rule for a lot of tournies. *shrugs*

Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)