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JohnHwangDD wrote:@carmachu: WTF are you on about? How am I disrespecting the parts that others like to play?

Every time arguements about the various parts of the hobby come up in this thread, anyone that just wants to play, you, and others say that folks should paint their armies as a sign of respect to their opponents and the hobby.

I'll say it again: what or when are YOU and others doing or saying to respect others aspect of the hobby, the folks that want to play? Paintingt is a chore to them, or their slow, or they dont like it.

What respect for them? And their choice?

As for what I play, I bring a fully-painted (and based) army to *every* RTT or other event that I've played.

Indeed, I can field my choice of *several* fully-painted Tournament-sized armies if I so choose. When I gamed a lot, I ran a 4-army rotation when I played FLGS pickup games, purely for variety's sake.

But outside of Tournaments, if we agree on playing with unpainted minis, that's between us.

Because keep in mind, we're talking about painted minis within the context of a RTT with a painting requirement. Not "testing".

SO what if its a tournment and in GW's "rules". As I stated before, GW breaks those rules constantly at various RT and GT events. My club mates have TONS of stories on that. Like one who spent a ton of time painting his army.....only to play at a GT event a kid who literally bought his army a couple hours earlier and glued together....an in one case, and empty base....

carmachu wrote:
My respect is proper play, and not acting like an asshat at the table. Be courteous and such.

In my opinion that's perfectly fine. The only problem is that, for the most part, people who don't paint their models are TFG. Not saying you are one, but for some reason it seems like the majority of TFG don't even prime their models and just play like asshats.

Personally? As long as the models are primed and assembled, I don't care. I'd prefer that the models be painted, but it is not required. Hell, I've fielded primed models before. I don't enjoy it but that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Actually a lot of stuff in this thread completely depends on a player's experience and what he/she has had to deal with. Mileage varies here, I would say.

I don't bring unpainted models to the table. Period.
I buy the models for my army that I like the look of, not necessarily because they'll win me a game ( Looks override performance statistics in my eyes). I don't win a lot of games, but all of my opponents have commented on my army's paintjob and asked how I did certain things, and I do have fun in most of them.

I don't game at a LGS or GW (local GW isn't large enough to swing a cat without the feline getting concussion, and the local indy LGS is a tad out of the way at the moment), I play mostly at my club or one or two other "local" clubs (within 90 minutes travel).

I don't expect my opponents to have a fully painted army, or indeed, painted at all. I've played against quite a few grey armies and had good games. I feel that it is a "richer" experience if both armies are painted, but I learned about wargaming from my granddad and his napoleonic group (if it wasn't painted, it wasn't allowed into the clubhouse for play. You could show off your newest unpainted model, but no paint, no play.) and this was normal for several other clubs, too.

I don´t understand why people keep mixing hobby with gaming.

To respect your opponent at the table is to know the rules, is not to take advantage of a badly written rule. Is to know your codex and the especial rules of your army, not using RAW in turn 1 and then go RAI on the 3rd.

Respect is to follow the tournament rules, arriving on time to the table and score your opponent fairly in the sportmanship and painting scores (if present) but I don´t think respect has nothing to do with having my army painted or not, that`s what painting scores are for.

Giving a 0 to an unpainted army or not allowing them to play is fair as long as it`s in the tournament rules. But to all those that wrote in their posts that they would never play an unpainted army you are just a bunch of snobs and probably the local TFG to boot. You claim the higher ground but, at least to my eyes, you are a shame to a hobby that is supposed to be inclusive and not exclusive and per GW own word a "sociable hobby"

M.

PD: And yes, although I don´t play tournaments my armies are painted

Seriously though, how big is a RTT? 2000 points or so? You play pure Grey Knights, and the most models you can possibly have at that point allowance with pure is 71, and I know for a fact that you won't be running them naked, so it's undoubtly less then that. Grey Knights are easy as hell to paint, and you can finish 8+ in 2-4 hours if you really go at it. I know because I did it at that speed for my PAGK, and mine look beautiful.

Aldonis wrote:Ummm....did you by any chance think that Deadshane MIGHT be just having a little nerd rage and sarcasm back at the local shop??? It's like a silent protest - he still wants to play - and the three dots will allow it - even though with painting scores in the mix - he can't win anything.

If you are going to a tourney that requires painting - and you do the minimum, just go to have fun and play the game - you can't expect to win. If you go in knowing it ahead of time - you can decide to play - or not. It's Shane's choice.

So much noise towards the WC - so sad. Can't beat them on the table - so bash them on the boards! Real cool!

I've got an idea....maybe try and get a game in with a member of the WC and see for yourself? Most folks I've played haven't seemed to have any issue with me - during or after the game....and I've been to a few GT's over the years. As it stands now - it seems like that a few folks are just going to call all WC members @ss-hats - whether they know them or not. If they win that much - they must cheat - no way they can actually be GOOD at the game or anything.

sigh.....

The three color dots thing is an immature response to a reasonable request to paint your models for a tournament. Its not the way a club member should conduct themselves. And for the record, although shane is pretty up front with what he says i genuinely enjoy him (minus this post). He posts decent reviews of lists, he's helpful, and not poorly behaved (as I've seen).

I'll tell you what, assuming that people don't like WC just because you win a lot and we assume you cheat is a big leap. Or that we bash you at all, or that its because we can't beat you in person. A fact would be: wrecking crew is most often brought up as a topic by its own members, not by flaming posters. Second, most of us at this point don't even want to play you in person after the image you've gotten from your members, see below.

Here's why I dislike the wrecking crew.

1) The gareth thing was summed up well elsewhere. He may or may not have done something wrong, I wasn't there, but its definitely shady, this doesn't matter much to me at all. Yet you all think the reason people dislike you is this one event. Its not. I couldn't care less.

2) Your members conduct themselves like asshats. GBF being the worst of them. He's also the one that constantly says he's part of the WC, so he's your main FACE TIME MAN (congratulations on that one). For the most part I see WC members going around, posting like egotistical jerks, and just in general trolling like they're some sort of gamer jock. Maybe all of your members aren't like this, but the ones that post frequently are. Your CLUB is responsible for these members, it let them in, they are representing it, and they represent it poorly. If you don't like the reputation you've earned as a bunch of jerks, maybe you should consider having your members that are prevalent in the community stop acting like jerks.

The WC guys seem to have this "we're just a collection of nationwide tourney players, we don't know each other that well, we're not responsible for each others actions" mentality. News flash. If you're a club, you ARE responsible for each others actions. If you choose to not be, then you aren't a club, you're just a group of decent players that chooses to put a tag next to their name in order to RAW the community into combining your scores/wins at events. If you want to call yourselves "wrecking crew" and a "club" you need to start acting like one, and reining in your members who post and act like children, or else get used to your reputation as a bunch of jerks. I realize most of you aren't, but the ones that aren't sure aren't too out there in the community for me to see, aren't helping people, and aren't stopping the trolling members.

So maybe 90% of you are great guys to game with. But your club has the stigma of the nasty 10% that are active in the online community. If you aren't going to deal with them yourself, get used to the reputation.

....as if the online community here is any better than the WC....! Yea right.

All deadshane does is post some aggravation at a local game store changing policy after several years of gaming and not JUST HIM (as might be acceptable) but the the entire of WC comes under fire for some stupid reason.

Its been a veritable Sh1tstorm of insults and self righteous fools on here seeing a chance to spew some forum diarrea at someone who's a little angry at the local store.

5 pages of how people who paint their armies are superior to people that might not care about painting and just love to play the game of 40k. Oh, that and a bunch of WC hate.

Yea, Dakkadakka as a whole is MUCH better behaved than Deadshane. 1 post from him = 5 pages of hate from dakka, not just at him but the club he's part of....

very adult...bunch of hypocrites.

Beerfart wrote:....as if the online community here is any better than the WC....! Yea right.

All deadshane does is post some aggravation at a local game store changing policy after several years of gaming and not JUST HIM (as might be acceptable) but the the entire of WC comes under fire for some stupid reason.

Its been a veritable Sh1tstorm of insults and self righteous fools on here seeing a chance to spew some forum diarrea at someone who's a little angry at the local store.

5 pages of how people who paint their armies are superior to people that might not care about painting and just love to play the game of 40k. Oh, that and a bunch of WC hate.

Yea, Dakkadakka as a whole is MUCH better behaved than Deadshane. 1 post from him = 5 pages of hate from dakka, not just at him but the club he's part of....

very adult...bunch of hypocrites.

QFT.

Beerfart wrote:....as if the online community here is any better than the WC....! Yea right.

All deadshane does is post some aggravation at a local game store changing policy after several years of gaming and not JUST HIM (as might be acceptable) but the the entire of WC comes under fire for some stupid reason.

Its been a veritable Sh1tstorm of insults and self righteous fools on here seeing a chance to spew some forum diarrea at someone who's a little angry at the local store.

5 pages of how people who paint their armies are superior to people that might not care about painting and just love to play the game of 40k. Oh, that and a bunch of WC hate.

Yea, Dakkadakka as a whole is MUCH better behaved than Deadshane. 1 post from him = 5 pages of hate from dakka, not just at him but the club he's part of....

very adult...bunch of hypocrites.

1) My post wasn't referring to deadshane, if you read it, it was referring to aldonis's comments on how the WC gets hate for no reason bla bla bla.
2) Do you want to hold your club to the same standards as your random insult tossing internet gaming nerds that are attacking the WC? I'd say you may want to aim a bit higher.

I can't understand how you can let your members act like you do and expect any less of a backlash from the community. Cry me a river. It would take a few swift boots from your "leadership" to fix your club and end all of the WC hate by just cleaning up your behavior and then letting your bad image fade away over the course of a couple weeks with the pace the internet community moves. But you don't. You just whine about how no ones nice to you.

Dood, I'm not even in the WC, but what I DO see here is persecution for that club much like the Salem witch trials....and its pretty much as fair.

As of late I havent seen the WC on these boards do anything but defend themselves against constant hate from people that proclaim "I've never played them but...." then someone comes on mentioning how he/they have hung out with the WC and "what a great bunch of guys they are."

They're not plugging the club here. GBF posts like mad but doesnt mention the club often that IVE seen except when under fire.

GBF and Deadshane had an arguement in a thread not long ago and someone cracked how it was discention in the ranks and is prolly par for the course with "those guys".

The only time I've seen Deadshane even mention that he was IN the club is the time he apologised for the whole of them and the confusion that was caused during the 'Ard Boyz....whatever your impression of that, it was mighty big of him to accept responsibility for "his boyz" especially if he wasnt involved in the game in question.

All the hate and self righteous jerks on here sometimes make me sick as a lurker....and it takes some time for me to speak up, but look at this thread. Go back and read Deadshanes first and ONLY post in this thread...is it THAT bad? Do you know the total story or just what you extrapolate from his post? Did you notice that there might be some SHADY reasons for changing the local RTT policy where he's from?

You see one questionable post here on dakka, and the end result is 5 pages of hate directed at him and his club (the club not being involved or even mentioned at all) It's obvious that some people here are just throwing salt on someones wounds because they think its fun.

This whole thread is a metaphor for online behavior here at dakka at times. See an opening and attack without any fear of retribution.

I hope some of you talking smack do so at a tournement that has WC guys in it....I hear one of them is on the 'ultimate fighting' circuit and several of them are police. It would be funny to see some self important dakkanerd get curb stomped after calling some guy a cheater when that guy has biceps the size of most peoples thighs. Dakka already hates the club as a whole, but I bet the most vocal haterz here go silent when they get to the GT locale.

Go hide in your cheezy poof boxes you internet tough-guys.

Dakkas a whiners club. We know.

carmachu wrote:I'll say it again: what or when are YOU and others doing or saying to respect others aspect of the hobby, the folks that want to play?

SO what if its a tournment and in GW's "rules".

What do WE do? WE play against their unpainted crap when painting is not required, and we do it with a smile. So when painting is finally required, then we reasonably expect you to comply with that requirement.

If it's a tournament for painted armies, then you follow the rules, or stay home. Very simple. After all, you'd get in a big huff if WE decided that it would be OK if WE field an extra 50% points each game... Or if WE decided to field Superheavies and mix armies to make points... Or if WE decided that our army penalties and restrictions didn't apply... Or if WE decided to take unfair liberties with modeling... Or if WE decided to use loaded dice and dice manipulation...

After all, it's not like anybody is saying you can't play with unpainted minis. We're simply saying that, when a painting requirement is imposed for an event, then players should follow the rule for that event.

____

targetawg wrote:

Aldonis wrote:So much noise towards the WC - so sad. Can't beat them on the table - so bash them on the boards! Real cool!

I'll tell you what, assuming that people don't like WC just because you win a lot and we assume you cheat is a big leap.

For many of us, it isn't any leap at all.

Beerfart wrote:Do you know the total story or just what you extrapolate from his post? Did you notice that there might be some SHADY reasons for changing the local RTT policy where he's from?

You see one questionable post here on dakka, and the end result is 5 pages of hate directed at him and his club (the club not being involved or even mentioned at all) It's obvious that some people here are just throwing salt on someones wounds because they think its fun.

This whole thread is a metaphor for online behavior here at dakka at times. See an opening and attack without any fear of retribution.

I hope some of you talking smack do so at a tournement that has WC guys in it....I hear one of them is on the 'ultimate fighting' circuit and several of them are police. It would be funny to see some self important dakkanerd get curb stomped after calling some guy a cheater when that guy has biceps the size of most peoples thighs. Dakka already hates the club as a whole, but I bet the most vocal haterz here go silent when they get to the GT locale.

Go hide in your cheezy poof boxes you internet tough-guys.

1) As I said before, if you read my post, it responded to aldonis, not deadshane, who I even commented that I enjoy on DD, minus this post.

2) You're the one acting like an internet tough guy, threatening physical violence against people for comments made. If any of the WC don't like my opinion, they can feel free to start physical violence if thats how they feel they need to solve their issues. God knows GBF already threatened me and told me how large he is in one of my posts, it doesn't seem too far out of the realm of possibility, congratulations, you've started yourself a new negative rumor.

3) Are you doing them any service in defending them? I didn't even insult them. I merely stated the fact that they let a few bad eggs ruin their whole clubs image, and that if they want to fix it, they should just correct those members behavior, plain and simple. You, on the other hand, are now insinuating that their club is a bunch of fighters, cops, and thugs who will commit hate crimes (curb stomping being a reference to american history x, where the main character crushes an african americans head on the curb due to his beliefs as a skin head).

You may want to rethink your strategy, at least in this scenario, I know you aren't part of their club, and I won't let your poor behavior reflect upon them.

Edit: For the record, i actually googled curb stomp after this, turns out it originally comes from a nazi practice during the holocaust, however I had only seen it during the movie, american history x. Congratulations on using it all the same.

I should drink and post more often. This thread is classic Dakka at its finest.

For the record, I'm a little miffed at my FLGS for changing their RTT policy after about 4 years of successful running.

I've had a particular habit of building armies, I would:

Build army
Begin play/practice with army while painting for coming tournement season (including tournement practice within RTT's)
Complete army...continue to play.
GET BORED WITH ARMY
continue to play Army in GT's and Major tournements BUT probably not play it otherwise...because....
Build new army
Begin play/practice with army while painting for coming tournement season (including tournement practice within RTT's)
rinse
repeat

Its worked this way for many years and my FLGS and I have been very happy together. I'm sorry if many of you dont approve of the way I perpetuate MY hobby....but this is how I've always done it with my current FLGS.

Now out of the blue my FLGS has changed policy to only include fully painted, while my initial outburst was anger, (amusing anger thanx to this thread and all the hate! ) I've pretty much accepted it and am instead protesting as a consumer should...by simply talking about it on the store forum, that I disagree with the change which makes me unhappy as a loyal customer of many years at my exclusion from the RTT's despite my DEEP involvement with the hobby. I'm accepting that the RTT's will simply have to do without me and I'm considering running my own tournement series at the store....which has been met with some intrest by the store owner.

So you see...actually I DO paint, slowly, and basically as a necessary evil for tournement play. I happen to enjoy the game MORE than painting and personally find that aspect of the 40k hobby more engaging than painting, but my models get painted eventually. My problem is that I get tired of armies quickly and normally before they're finished. My Hobby store has always accomodated my hobby habits, until now, and that frustrated me.

We now bring you back to your scheduled WC hate-for-no-other-reason-than-to-be-a-douche.

I don't get why this is a big deal. We have the 3 color minimum at my store. So I got my armies painted up enough to play. Not painted well, but there is 3 colors and basing.

And I actually enjoy painting a bit. If I hadn't been 'forced' to paint my armies, how would I've known that?

....oh yea, and I'm a Cop. However, curb-stomping isnt taught at the Academy soooo...., my prefered distractionary maneuver is an open handed slap to the face (nothing stuns a grown man more..."you just slapped me dude????")....followed up by grasping the throat with my left hand while the right finds its way to my opponents left wrist. Then the "TIME HONOURED" left knee to the 'boys'. I normally dont use this tecnique against accusations of "cheater" however its a fabulous way to discourage stretching 6" distances and delay of game.

And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Um, "Gary Busey"

Shhhh! I don't know how to spell his name, all I know is that he's nuts.

Fafnir wrote:And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Oh ho! Thats why you must learn creative report writing...saves you every time. It's all in how you word it.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Fafnir wrote:And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Oh ho! Thats why you must learn creative report writing...saves you every time. It's all in how you word it.

That comment, combined with your avatar's expression, makes me feel ill. I really hope it's sarcasm.

I am, however, indifferent to the painted/nonpainted issue. If the store's attendance and sales are declining, being exclusive doesn't sound like a smart idea. People who set their standards at where ever they happen to be are pretty much the cream of bigots.

5 pages of rage over one guy's angry post about a change in store policy.

Everyone should be allowed to play in a tournament as long as they pay the entry fee. If the army is not painted, well guess there is no paint score for that guy and pray pray pray everyone else ties/loses their games to remotely hope for an overall.

As others have said, I have seen in GTs and Gamesday RTTs people with unpainted armies and are just there to play. Most people dont have time to paint or the patience (I am still working on my marine army since 2004). Just let the people play and either give them a 0 for painting or just plain make them not eligible for an overall.

Sincerely, Hod

Deadshane1 wrote:

Fafnir wrote:And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Oh ho! Thats why you must learn creative report writing...saves you every time. It's all in how you word it.

"Yes, Your Honour. If you watch the movie backwards, you'll actually see us helping Mr. King up off the ground, into his car and watch him reverse away."

malfred wrote:Well, I wasn't going to use anything as fine as an air brush. I was going to buy
cans of Black, Red and something else and try to make some fugly Blud Marines.

What, you mean everyone doesn't do that? Woops...

This thread is being locked while posts are being reviewed as potential threats.

I will state as general policy threats against other board members, either directly, or indirectly in the discussion are not tolerated on Dakka.